This Had Oscar Buzz - 095 – St. Vincent (Naomi Watts – Part Four)

Episode Date: May 25, 2020

Nao-May comes to a close this week with St. Vincent, the 2014 film that starred Bill Murray as an old codger who learns to love while caring for a not-quite-precocious preteen. The dramedy targeted that elusive follow-up nomination for Murray after losing out for Lost in Translation a decade prior, not to mention holding promise … Continue reading "095 – St. Vincent (Naomi Watts – Part Four)"

Uh-oh, wrong house. No, the right house. I didn't get that! We want to talk to Marilyn Hacks. I'm from Canada. I'm from Canada water. Take me a god Don't play with me

I was wondering if I could use your phone My house I can watch the kid after school I can do $11 an hour Let's go! Here's a dime Call your mom Cost more than a dime All right here

Cross some more than that Call collect You like him He's interesting In a gotcha sort of way Hey look it's Oliver You need to defend yourself But you get Motown

Get out You're small You haven't noticed And so is Hitler. That's a horrible comparison. So how do you and Vincent know each other? I'm working for this man. I go hard.

I'm also dancer. A lady of the night. Do you know what that means? Sure, it's that night? Hello and welcome to the This Had Oscar Buzz podcast, the only podcast that knows exactly what you did on my boat. Stage paparazzi photos with your new Dr. Boyfriend to make your last Dr. Boyfriend jealous. Every week on This Had Oscar Buzz, we'll be talking about a different movie that once upon a time had Lofty Academy Award. aspirations, but for some reason or another, it all went wrong.

The Oscar hopes died, and we are here to perform the autopsy. I am your host, Chris Fyle. I'm here, as always, with my pregnant Russian sex worker co-host, Joe Sevik Rie Davovich. Hello. My pregnant belly gets in the way of my making money on strip club. I go punch vending machine. I go say rude things about people in hospitals Okay, speaking of saying rude things to people

Our accent jokes will probably be the rudest That we personally will be to Naomi Yes In this our Naomi Watts mini series And to be fair We have spent three full episodes plus a mini Talking about how great she is with an American accent So like

these chickens are now coming home to roost in terms of her one bad accent that we've encountered on this miniseries. It has been fun examining her career and also defending it as well against some naysayers. However, I am utterly aghast at this CBS interview that you found with her. Yes, CBS. So I'm doing my usual round of research for the movie. I tend to try and find little interview clips that people have done at the time. Publicity, junket interviews are generally not super illuminating in general, so I don't always find interesting stuff. But she's on the CBS This Morning show with

Charlie Rose and Nora O'Donnell and somebody else whose name I am now not able to conjure because they're neither the current host of the CBS Evening News They're not gay Or a scandal plagued Right Also they're not Gail Yes

God what if it was Gail King I was just like you know that person But they were talking about Charlie Rose brings up the topic of like Which is like such a dumb topic I find it's just like What is it with Australia and all these great actors It's just like

They're a country They have you know what I mean England does it too But so Naomi is doing You know Oh yes you know They have a really great You know national

theater, whatever and, you know, Nicole and Russell and Kate Blanchett and all these things. And the one other host is like... Nicole, Russell, Kate. Yeah, Hugh Jackman. Hugh Jackman.

He said, and Nicole, who at one point you were the nanny for when you were trying really hard to become... No, I wasn't, I was never her nanny. I was just her friend, but we did hang out with each other and the kids all the time. Yeah, yeah. And it's so sad to watch

like this look of on Naomi's face of just like, I'm just never going to get out from under it, am I? I'm never going to be anything. Like, at the end of the day, I'm still just Nicole's subordinate to the point where people just assumed I worked for her. The injustice of thinking that Naomi Watts is Nicole Kidman's nanny.

My skull, cracked in half, split down the middle, my whole body, and a dragon popped out, and it is in the process of scorching the earth. Yeah, it's rough. She handles it with a plumb, but there is a half a second, I screencapped it for Twitter, there's half a second where just like her eyes just go blank, and it's sort of just like, the realization of it dawns on her, and it is a bummer. So if anybody thinks that we have been mean to Naomi in this month. Yeah. Direct your ire to CBS. I will say, 2014, the year that St. Vincent comes out, really good year for Naomi Watts in terms of her career.

Exactly. I mean, not that they should be asking her those questions, but, like, if you told me that interview was 2013 for, like, Diana, maybe I would believe it. But, like, this is such a comeback year. Like, we don't really have much of a recap for Naomi because it's the literal year after Diana happens, which we talked about last week. And that was also a bad year otherwise for her. But she bounces back with this, hi, we're here to talk about St. Vincent, which, like, we're both going to be in agreement. It is a terrible movie, but people liked it. And it made too many.

I think we're going to be maybe, not in disagreement exactly, but I think you are going to be much more vehement about not liking it than I am, is my prediction. Okay, that's possible. But also, she's in Birdman, which we've talked about, like, that's a role that almost, like, disrespectfully, like, asks her to do what she's doing, but she's good in it. But it's Best Picture Winner, and also while we're young premieres, and she's really good in that, the Noah Baumbach movie that wasn't released until the next year. But, like, when she's doing the press for this movie, like, people had already seen those movies, right?

And she'd gotten good notices. Yeah, St. Vincent opens in, what we say, October. Yes. And so, yes, while we're young, has already played Tiff. Birdman has probably already premiered at New York Film Festival, or if it hasn't, like, it's right

around that time. While we're young, was at New York, right? Or was that when they were still doing the secret movies, and it was the secret movie? It was the secret movie. It was, that was the year that, like, the secret screening at New York Film Festival sort of, like, lost all its mystique, because it... It was already

a movie that had played another festival, and that was, like, the slot where they were playing, like, Hugo before, like, the visual effects were completely finished. Didn't they show Lincoln as well? In my sort of meager experience with the New York Film Festival, Hugo was the big thing. We're, like, unexpected, unannounced, they premiered Hugo. Well, they couldn't call it a premiere because it wasn't finished.

But, like, first people to see Hugo, New York Film Festival, it got announced, sort of impromptu in the middle of the festival. Lincoln, I remember, I think I've told the story, about how I worked at ABC, which is right across the street, from Lincoln Center and that day that they announced that there were secret screening tickets and everybody, it sort of leaked out that it was going to be Lincoln and I ran over and I got some tickets and I think that was where I met Katie, Rich, for the first time and it was a whole thing. So, but then Lincoln was also technically not a premiere because like some things aren't finished and I think it was like literally just like the music is maybe not fully like calibrated but like it was done.

The movie was done. Hugo, if I remember correctly, it's like one or two visual effects shots weren't finished. Right, right. I can't remember what the secret screening was in 2013, but it was like something, and it was fine. And then... Just last year, it was uncut gems, which had already played like two or three festivals. Yeah, so like starting at 2014, 2014 is when the sort of like the mystique goes away and it's just like, what's it going to be? And I remember, oh, I remember in 2013, I don't think there was one.

And I think my theory at the time was they wanted it to be the Wolf of Wall Street, and it just wasn't finished in time. The Wolf of Wall Street didn't get released until the very end of 2013. And I believe the thing at the time was that they were still working on it, like, up until, like, December. That probably was when it was still, like, a four-hour movie or something. Yeah. And then so 2014 comes around, and there's, again, speculation, what's it going to be? And everybody's sort of, like, throwing around these big things.

And it ends up being while we're young. a movie that, A, had already premiered at TIF the month before, and B, like, I remember it being well-received at TIF. Everybody seemed to like it a lot better than I did. I do not really care for that movie. But certainly, it didn't, like, land with a splash at Tiff and, like, emerged from there is this, like, major Oscar contender. And I think that being the standard set by Hugo and Lincoln, both of which were, like,

huge Oscar films by these, like, major American directors. And so I think when while we're young happened, it's just like, oh, okay, so we're settling into this sort of like, you know, and it's not going to be like that big a local thing to it because New York Film Festival happens at Lincoln Center and there's a whole sequence in the movie that's Lincoln Center. Yes, yes, exactly, exactly. So, but yes, you're right. Naomi's good in that movie. Again, as I said, it got pretty good reception that year. But then, yeah, the two big ones are Birdman, which is, you know, an even bigger success than people expected it to be. be, and she does so well as part of the ensemble on that one. And then St. Vincent, which had been sort of buzzed early, but not really for her. A lot of people thought it might be a Bill Murray vehicle. I thought it might be, you know, a chance for Melissa McCarthy to get a sort of more, a more serious role that she would get a lot of respect for. And like, Melissa McCarthy gets completely lost in the shuffle of this movie. And then, but all of a sudden,

so unexpectedly, Naomi ends up getting the SAG nomination for this movie. So she ends up being like the most prestigiously decorated of anybody in this movie, which is fully wild and we'll totally get into it. I imagine that when that nomination happened in like whatever the balloting was for SAG. And I think this is still when like SAG had like committees but larger committees that determined like their nominating group, whatever. I just imagine that when And it was entered into whatever computer. Naomi Watts, St. Vincent, like, Siri popped up and said, do you mean Bertrand?

Like, yeah. It's so funny because, like, I don't even remember very much of a campaign for her for this movie. I don't either. And that's why when it happened, I was just like, huh. Like, I guess, you know, those screeners went out. It did pretty well at the globe. too, but she didn't. Sag is the one that whatever it is with their voting practices and their voting practices are

incredibly weird. Like, they have... They have panels, right? They have... Yeah, they get randomly selected, like, panels or committees, and, like, it's not, like, 10 people, like, sitting around putting their votes in, but, like, it's a larger number, right? Yeah. It's not just, like, all of SAG, which...

Which is a vast number, yeah. Yeah, like, you're talking probably... 10,000 people. It's like commercial actors vote on stuff, too. But the thing about SAG is that there, if there's always some random weird one-off nominee that sounds wild to you on nomination morning with SAG, it's because most of the time it was a movie that got out early. Got a screener out early. Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. We'll talk about, we'll talk about this year's SAG Awards in more detail later on. I, that's, there's some, the differences between the SAG lineups and the Oscar

lineups are like kind of interesting and we will get into that for sure. Absolutely. But we are here to talk about St. Vincent, which is, like, the thing that's so weird about that Naomi Watts nomination is that this was, like, sold as a Bill Murray vehicle. It was going to be another nomination. for Bill Murray. It was like the Weinstein's big push before like big eyes. And what else did they have that year? Um, imitation game. Yes. Yes. The big success, the imitation game. Yeah. Right. And like people liked it, but I don't think people were as enamored by Bill Murray as like

the campaign probably would have liked to have happened because he has never gotten a second nomination since Loss and Translation. We've talked about, like, Bill Murray before it in our Hyde Park on Hudson episode. But, like, I remember they made a big deal with the TIF premiere for this. They did a full Bill Murray Day at Toronto where they did, like, Bill Murray movies all day

on top of regular festival programming. Did you know that this movie finished third in the voting for the People's Choice Award at TIF that year? that this year what you call it the imitation game won people's choice that year which I think was the big like oh it's definitely

it is definitely going to get an Oscar nomination and then second place was Learning to Drive that movie by Isabel Quashe with Patricia Clarkson and Ben Kingsley if you remember of that movie I never saw it but it looks like the type of thing I would like

and then St. Vincent finished third But you're right, it was, it was a big premiere. I remember, this was my first year at TIF. This was, I had, not to, like, bore everybody with process or whatever, but, like, I had applied for press credentials. They said no. I applied, like, very last minute.

And I, you know, as it happens with a lot of people. Knew better. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. And, but they offered me, like, we can offer you, like, these vouchers for press screenings, but mostly what I did, um, was, took advantage of the fact that. that we had very little oversight at the Atlantic at the time. And I was like, well, I'll just buy 20 public tickets and just go to, like, you know,

public screenings and premieres and expense the whole thing. It was great. That's why I did my first tip. So, but certain things are harder to get than others, and the big gala premieres are among that. And one of the movies I tried to get tickets for and couldn't was St. Vincent, and I tried to, you know, work my meager skills at schmoozing publicists to get tickets, because that's sort of the thing with a lot of the writers who go to cover the festival is you go to your press screenings during the day or whatever. But then for the big ones, publicists can usually just, like, get you a ticket to the premiere screening.

And that helps you sort of like, you know, helps your schedule get a lot more flexible if you have these evening premieres that you can go to that you can, you know, free up some time in the day for seeing other movies or writing or whatever. So I tried to get press publicist tickets to St. Vincent, and it wasn't happening, and it wasn't happening, and I was very sort of like new at this whole thing, and I was very frustrated. And ultimately, I was just like, fine, I can't. So I was just coming out of, this was Friday night, the second night of the festival, kicking off the weekend, St. Vincent's, the big premiere Friday night. And so I'm seeing this movie called Bird People at the Scotia Bank, which is this very, very small little movie. with Josh Charles and someone else and at some point somebody turns into a bird. And it's like fine and cute, but like nobody ever saw it. And I barely remember it.

I wonder why when the best picture winner that year is bird man. And so I'm walking out of this and I'm like checking my text messages one more time. Nothing from the public says like, fine. I'm just, I'm texting some of the people. I'm just like, I'm not going to go to it. And I'm a little sort of like, you know, like fuck this movie, like whatever. And then I walk out of the theater and the skies had opened. up. It was the thunderstorm to end all thunderstorms for the next hour and a half. And

people were like, it's one of those thunderstorms that catches people where people were huddling under like awnings of restaurants and like up against the sides of buildings because maybe it won't be raining on me that hard. It was like that kind of a downpour. And if you go on Twitter or on YouTube and look up the red carpet arrivals for the St. Vincent premiere at Tiff, you will see like Bill Murray and Melissa McCarthy and whatever like getting out of their limos on King Street and just like publicists holding umbrellas over their heads and it is just downpouring and like absolutely amazing just the the you know ushering these people out of their car they didn't get them an awning no didn't no no there's no there's there's awning like right in front of the theater but like they can't get an awning and a ring light the scene at Tiff is you pull up in front of, like, these big theaters, and there are fans lined up all along the street, sort of, like, behind these, like, metal barricades or whatever, and they're the ones who are, like, you know, screaming and whatever, and, like, they're all psyched to see

the celebrities, and then the photographers are all there, and all of the fans, and I'm sure all of the photographers are just, like, completely getting poured on. And it is a wild teen. And I remember talking to friends of mine who had gone to the same concert premiere, and every one of them was just like, oh, my God, like, standing in line waiting to get in, and I got so fucking soaked, like, all this sort of thing. And I was just like, oh, huh, that's interesting. Like, I saw my little movie that nobody cared about, and then I went back to my hotel. And I stayed nice and dry.

So, whatever, yeah. And you missed a movie. That wasn't all that great. Yeah. The tip thing is so important for this movie, though, because, like, I always remember it as just, like, kind of instrumental to this Bill Murray campaign that just never materialized into anything. Like, as its world premiere, they were making such a huge. deal about Bill Murray specifically.

Well, and we'll, once we get on the other side of the plot description, we'll talk about sort of the post-lost-and-translation expectation that Bill Murray would sort of capitalize on that Oscar momentum. And it's not that he dropped the ball necessarily, but like there were opportunities for Oscar to sort of latch on to things that he was doing that they did not take. Right. And it's interesting. Yeah, interesting. But yes, the movie is St. Vincent, written and directed by Theodore Melfi, who listeners will also know from Hidden Figures, which was why I was always hesitant about Hidden Figures, because I hated this movie so much, when it was like, you know, lurking as a potential thing, and then that movie is way better than this movie. But also starring Bill Murray, mine Lieber Hair, Jaden, Now Martel. Then Lieber Hair, yeah.

was very this, I was this close to screenshoting, introducing Jaden. I did. I did. I almost, I forgot to send it to you, but I did screenshot it from the trailer. Absolutely. Also starring Melissa McCarthy, our beloved Naomi Watts, Chris O'Dowd, Ann, not Dowd, just regular Ann Dowd. That was a meeting of the minds I want to see. It's Chris O'Dowd and Ann Dowd, talking about, like, at what point Anne's family disavowed the Irishness.

in her name. Like, what harrowing Ellis Island story does Ann Dowd have in her family's history? Yes. Also, Wildly, with Terrence Howard, other character actors like Nate Cordry, Deirdre O'Connell, Reggie Kathy is in this movie. Yep, yep. Scott Adset from 30 Rock, Pete from 30 Rock, is the non-speaking adulterous dad. Yes, exactly, exactly. Um, movie, as we mentioned, premiered at Tiff, had a limited opening, early October, went wide a week before Halloween, the cursed Halloween window for...

Naomi had her costume already. She played a pregnant Russian hooker for Halloween, apparently, so... But Joseph, yes. Before we get into the film itself, would you like to give a 60-second plot description? We've only made it 20 minutes into recording. I know. We're getting so much better momentarily. We go back and forth, I feel like. We do. We do.

Yes, I'm ready, though. All right. Your 60-second plot description for the motion picture film, St. Vincent starts now. Bill Murray plays Vincent, a mean old crumbum living in Sheep's Head Bay in Brooklyn. South Brooklyn, he's a Vietnam vet. His wife has Alzheimer's. She lives in a nursing home that he increasingly cannot afford. He goes and gambles at the rest.

racetrack. He's in debt to some loan sharks, including Terrence Howard. He's a huge grump. Melissa McCarthy is a single mom who just moved in next door to him. Her son is Oliver who gets bullied at his new Catholic school. Something happens with a tree branch that falls on Vincent's car, yada, yada, yada, yada. Vincent ends up babysitting Oliver after school so that she'll pay him. It's a weird thing. I don't know. The two of them, Vincent and Oliver, end up bonding, as often happens with grumpy old men and adorable little children. Vincent teaches him to defend himself and introduces him to his pregnant Russian stripper friend, played by Naomi Watts. At some point, Vincent has a stroke. Melissa McCarthy gets pulled into a custody case with

their ex-husband. She tells Vincent never to see Oliver again, but then Oliver does a school project about modern-day saints on Vincent, and everybody ends up having a disgusting spaghetti and green beans casserole together at the end, because they're all happy. And that is time. I got most of it all in there. There are a lot of subplots in this movie. There are. This movie changes... I don't think you missed any of them. This movie changes directions, like, three times in this movie. It's very...

Fully. It is not... I would not call it a tightly scripted movie. It does not seem to hold... There's a center absence from this movie, and I think it tries to lean on this whole, like, a meta idea about the school project, about, like, find saints among you in your, you know, daily lives,

which A is a really crappy project to give kids. B, is an insane project to have... culminate with a school assembly that these kids have to give like PowerPoint presentations and whatnot on their moms and dads and neighbor babysitters well and if you look at like it's so funny to watch the they show little bits of this presentation like while we're waiting for oliver to get to his turn and it's all these like kids who like my neighbor's a firefighter and it's like yes yes yes we get it like everyday heroes um and they're also comparing them to other saints which like

Which is hilarious because Like compares him to compares Vincent to a saint of adopted kids and mine Lieber hair is an adopted kid But if you look at the history of saints

As you know Many a Catholic can tell you The easiest way The easiest road to be to sainthood In for most of human history Was to be Executed for your Christianity Like that's sort of

That's sort of what we're talking about with, like, most of saints. It's, like, the Joan of Arc root. I'm just like, oh, right, they were martyred for their faith. Like, they will be a saint now. And it's, like, now we have this sort of modern-day conception of saints, like Mother Teresa or whatever. But I just thought this whole idea of finding saints among you or whatever kind of flattens the idea of people and humanity. And, like, I guess one of the things that I guess the film does a little bit well, I kind of, I

found parts of this movie charming i will admit and like one of the things i liked at least about the end of the movie is that at least came around to this idea of just like um when when oliver's making the presentation for vincent which by the way comes not five minutes in the movie after vincent makes it incredibly racist crack about oliver's uh caregiver at some point so it's just like okay um so now we are, you know, the overall idea of this movie is objectionable in the fact that we are giving this, literally canonizing this racist man for doing the absolute least and like not, I guess, throwing this child out into the street while he's in his care. Like, right, right.

Okay. But one of the things that he does in that presentation was at least he's just like, Vincent's humanity is also what makes him, what helps me. Make him a saint because saints are human, like, regular human people, too. And it's just like, I'm glad that at least that was part of the whole spiel. Yeah, sure. Sure, sure, sure, sure, sure. Yeah, I mean, like, you bring up, like, the racism thing of this character.

Like, I grate to this character so much in this movie who is, like, cuddly because the movie says that he has to be for the movie to work. Yeah. But, like, the performance is not cuddly. Like, Bill Murray is working against that conception. of Vincent at every turn and does not really ever let up. Right. I think the performances are largely fine in this movie. Yeah. Largely.

Like Bill Murray's good. I think Melissa McCarthy is actually probably the best performance in the movie. She doesn't get much to do. The worst written character. Yeah, she does not get a lot to do nor to. It feels like her character is an interesting one where there are certain

points in the movie where it feels like we're supposed to think worse of her. We're supposed to think like she's not necessarily a bad mom, but like that she could be a better mom and that she's sort of being too rigid or too whatever. And but like McCarthy's performance, I think she's so inherently likable that it's really hard for you as the viewer to just be like, oh my God, like she's not that great of a mom because like she is that great of mom because she was McCarthy. We love her. It's a scripting problem though too because like we, we

We do question, like, the fact that she doesn't notice that anything's going on or that she wouldn't suspect that her son would be, like, at gambling racetracks by putting her son in the care of this man while she's away. But the movie also, like, there's this undertone to where it's, like, the problem, or at least what she has always, like, told the problem is, is that she's working and employed. And, like, the movie never really makes any other problem. that gets in the way of her caring for her son other than having a job. And, like, that's a hard thing for people who are in that type of situation. But, like, she is actively doing something to care for her son, to be able to provide for her son, because she is a single parent throughout most of the movie. Right.

And, like, I just, I grate against that. Like, the movie isn't, like, she's doing, she's at least doing what she can. it feels like the movie is always trying to project her as a failure. Yes. Yeah, I think the script, I think if you read just the script of this movie, you would probably have a lot worse feeling about Oliver's mom in this movie. His name I don't even know, because, again, she's not given enough to do in this movie. Which is too bad because, again, after, so she gets the nomination for bridesmaids in 2011.

So this is three years later. And I think I've talked about this in the comment. of can you ever forgive me? Where Melissa ends up getting the nomination for Can You Ever Forgive Me? It's very much a nomination rewarding her ability to stretch beyond the sort of comedic conception of what we thought of her as a performer. And I thought that was what was going to happen for her with St. Vincent. I thought that was going to be this sort of like revelation is just like, yes, we loved you as comedic comic relief in bridesmaids, but, I mean, whatever, comic relief in bridesmaids, everybody's, it's, the whole

movie's funny, whatever. I know my part, but I don't know my words. This movie is the good sort of like serial comic like blend. I was just like, that's it. That's what's going to happen. It's going to happen for her. Melissa McCarthy, Best Actress Nomination, watch it. And of course, it fully didn't happen.

But as with many things, I'm right. It just takes the world a while to catch up with me. ultimately, can you ever forgive me, did that for her. But this movie did not utilize her to the fullest extent of her abilities. I agree. I think it's to your point, too, where I don't even know if it's a likeability thing, but she as a performer can really, like, get you into the character's experience in a way where, like, you understand them.

and I don't know if that's necessarily likeability. And, like, maybe she as a performer is miscast here somewhat because we maybe shouldn't... For her character to make any sense, we maybe shouldn't understand where she's coming from so much. Yeah. Or maybe she should just be more of a mess or something. I don't know.

Yeah. I hear that. Yeah. Melissa McCarthy in this movie is a bummer, though, because it's like... It always feels like she gets to be in command, even when it's something that's like bad, like identity thief. And it's like it feels like the movie shits on her the whole time.

Yes. That's a bummer to watch. It is. The Bill Murray thing, let's just sort of like talk about it here because it is sort of the, it's the one A of why did this movie have Oscar buzz? And so this movie comes a good decade after his one and only Oscar nomination for Lost in Translation. He had gotten a lot of precursor attention.

for his performance in Rushmore in 98, but that never materialized into a nomination, even though a lot of people thought it would. So, Lawson Translation, 2003, he, by all indications, loses to Sean Penn and Mystic River by a decently narrow margin. Like, he's second place there.

He's the one who... If John Depp isn't, like, that's probably the closest first, second and third place, like, acting race. It's up there in my lifetime of how, close it is between three people. It comes just the year after what I think is probably the closest, which is Adrian Brody beating out Daniel DeLewis in Gings of New York and Jack Nicholson in about

Schmidt, which I think was another race that sort of three-person race. But I remember the conversation going into the Oscars because Depp had won the sag, but nobody really thought he was going to win the Oscar, and people said it's either going to be Sean Penn or Bill Murray. Murray loses. He sort of visibly is not happy about it on screen when you look at, you know, the five box view of the Best Actor Award at that point. Anyway, a lot of people immediately start looking to his follow-up films of just like, well, clearly Murray came so close. There is an appreciation for him in Hollywood as a serious actor now. And so I remember when he made The Life Aquatic with Steve. Steve Zisu in 2004, a lot of people, even though Wes Anderson had yet to establish himself as an Oscar-approved director, really? I know Tennebombs got the screenplay nomination, but, like, Hackman doesn't get nominated. Murray, aforementioned, hadn't been nominated for Rushmore, but everybody thought,

oh, okay, Murray's got a lead. He's doing the whole sort of like he's funny, but he's sad kind of a thing, and everybody He's also a jerk. Right. Put all their chips on Murray and Life Aquatic with Steve Zisu. And that movie kind of puzzled people when it came out. It's like the darkest West Anderson movie. Yeah.

It's definitely like the meanest of them. Yes, it is. And so that doesn't happen. I remember the year after that where I think the Bill Murray Oscar prognostication psychosis reaches its peak in 05 when people were predicting him. to get a nomination for Broken Flowers, which is the Jim Jarmouche movie, which it's a fucking Jim Jarmuch movie.

Jim Jarmish movie and Oscar nomination anyway. Come on. That movie I don't love. He's fine in it, but did not even come close to happening. And so from there, like take out him voicing Garfield, take out him cameoing in things like the Darjeeling Limited or Zombie Land. But, like, the big roles that he's in, he's a supporting performer in Gitlo, which is a movie that, like, got Robert Duval decently close to a nomination, but didn't happen. He's funny in Moonrise Kingdom.

We have talked about Hyde Park on Hudson, which was a Oscar buzz on paper only film where he plays FDR. And it was the cousin hand job. Oh, he's also a president movie. Right. The Monuments Men, the supporting role in the Monuments Men, the movie that made us all realize that maybe George Clooney isn't that great of a director. He's very good in Olive Kittridge, but that's television.

And, you know, small role in Grand Budapest Hotel. And, like, St. Vincent's, with the exception of Hyde Park on Hudson, St. Vincent is really the, what, third or fourth movie since Lost in Translation that could have even conceivably been an awards play for him. And it could absolutely be in the conversation again this year, because he has the new Sophia Coppola movie. Well, this year.

No, but I mean, it could be, especially because we know that movie is done and there's a limited amount of product and things that are streaming are given much more consideration. And it's Apple Plus, right? Yes, but I don't know anything about it getting if they had any intentions of putting it in theaters or not right it's like with the new

rules that have happened for this year right it won't need to be in theaters right yeah well it they needed to have some type of plan the it's so vague um right but yeah we could see the exact same type of expectation thrown on him again this year though i wonder if if it's just more of the same, because I think part of the problem with Bill Murray not getting a second nomination, though I guess you could say Hyde Park on Hudson is a little bit different in terms of what role he is playing, just like this stock, like, codger, like, funny, sad man. And, like, that's part of the reason why I don't think a second one has happened, because it has become so cliche to see Bill Murray, even when he's good, giving this performance.

Well, the thing about both Rushmore and Lost in Translation was it was the novelty of seeing this, you know, celebrated comedic actor, you know, the guy from Ghostbusters, the guy from Groundhog Day, from whatever, seeing him play sad and serious and sort of, you know, low-key and depressed and whatnot. And it was just like, oh, he's stretching. And Lost in Translation, you know, as much as maybe Ghostbusters calcified this image of Bill Murray as the kind of sarcastic looks down his nose at you comedic persona, you know what I mean? Lost in Translation calcifies this dramatic image of Bill Murray as this kind of sad clown, right? just sort of low-key, maybe depressed, maybe just sort of just like, you know, bummed out by life kind of persona. And so that's not novel either now. Yeah.

Well, it's even to the point of like this movie, which is already like overcalculated in the extreme with like any emotional turn of the movie. Yeah. Where it's like everybody has to have a happy ending in this. to the point where it's, like, so absurd and, like, we leave the movie, like, not concerned for the well-being of any single character to the point where it's, like, the young boy Oliver becomes, like, best friends with his bully? With his bully, yeah. It's so, like, this movie is so demonstrably wanting everybody to, like, have some absurd, like. And here's my thing. What's the payoff to that? Why do that? What happens in the movie that we needed to have, to have. this turnaround for this bully.

Like, there's no great plot necessity to have this boy sort of in the fold. And there's no great emotional payoff to having Oliver, I guess it's that Oliver has a friend his age, but the movie doesn't really make anything of that, because ultimately... I think it also wants us to think that he's not bullied anymore. Well, sure. But, like, I don't, I just, I don't get... He cannot be bullied anymore. and still not be, like, becoming best friends with lead bully.

Do you know what I mean? Like, if you want to... It's also a movie that thinks everything has to be okay. Like, there can't be any type of, like, even when this, what we've been told is a deadbeat dad who doesn't care about his son comes back into the picture. Like, he's the one who's, like, carding him around on all of these interviews for the saint presentation. So it's like, the movie can't let...

any of its like It's surprising that he's not at the dinner at the end. Really? It truly is. This sort of like ragamuffin dinner like hodgepodge of like every disreputable person in the neighborhood. And yeah.

All conflicts have to not only be resolved, but they have to be like give you a warm feeling. It's weird. But the thing about Bill Murray specifically is because we know Bill Murray for these roles, It tells you everything that the movie is going to be, everything that is going to happen in this movie

and how you're going to feel about it because he's cast in it. I think it's, even though I think he's good in the movie, it's fine. If you had a different actor who you didn't know exactly what the movie was going to be from their casting, I think it works more. And, like, I'd be more interested in seeing this character played by somebody who hasn't really played that before.

Yeah, I think, yeah. I struggle to think of maybe an example or a name, but I could see this as an Oscar-nominated performance from another actor. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's true. Although, again, I think the movie still has the same problems. I think Murray does a good job of, again, keeping Vincent from getting to...

There's a trap that a movie like this can fall into where the, you know, irascible old man becomes so likable that you feel strong-armed into, you know, liking him. And he is the only kind of beachhead against that happening to this movie because he really has a commitment to keeping Vincent from getting too likable. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, like, it does have some scenes where it's, I mean, again, I think they feel very engineered,

but there's scenes later in the movie where it's like to separate Oliver and Vincent, he gets kind of nasty again to the point where it's like, correct me if I'm wrong, but there's one of those scenes before Vincent has his stroke, and then they're there for him creating basically like this oddball family unit because it's that movie while they help him recuperate from his stroke, and then there's another fight again. Yes, yes, there is.

To set up the surprise of him showing up at the presentation, because otherwise, it wouldn't feel like, you know, anybody's sort of bridging any kind of a gap to get to that presentation. That scene reminded me of there's a 30-Rock episode where Frank, the Judah Friedlander Scumbum character, sort of becomes Jack Donagie's protege and wants to sort of go in, go to law school and become the sort of, like, cleaned up thing. and Paddy Lepone plays his mother. And this is just like,

pulls Jack aside. He's just like, you idiot. Like, he can't be a lawyer. His whole family were lawyers for the mob. And so Jack has to push Frank away. And the whole meta narrative of this movie is that they've been watching Harry and the Hendersons. And that movie ends with John Lithgow,

like slapping Harry, like the big Sasquatch ape or whatever, across the face and like making him believe that he doesn't love him anymore so that he, like, returns to the wood. where he can be safe. And so that's the end of this Thurga Rock episode, is Jack Donagy, like, berating Frank with the same words that Lithgow uses. You've got to go.

No, I'm going to be a lawyer. I'm going to be like you. Get out of here. Go to the writer's room. There is no scholarship. Can't you see we don't want you anymore? I'm just like, you don't belong here. This isn't your world.

And making Frank go back to becoming his old, like scumbum character, it's, that's sort of what that kind of a scene now reminds me of is just like, go get friends to your own age, you know, you don't want to be with someone like me and blah, blah, blah, and it's just, it felt very perfunctory that scene. There was no high emotion into it, and, you know, poor, poor Jaden was kind of left adrift in that scene. Yeah. We haven't really talked about the most important aspect of St. Vincent, which is I meant it for last because it is the thing that makes this movie rather unhinged. It is, of course, a prequel to the Book of Henry, which is...

The other movie where Naomi Watts' mothers is somewhat... ...is a questionable mother to Jaden Libra-Hare-Martel. Yeah, I never... I didn't quite caught into that until almost the entire... of this movie is done, and I was just like, wait a second, they're both in the book of Henry. Like, Jesus Christ. That movie also flips on a dime and changes course, like, several times in that movie as well. I think he's a sweet little boy in this movie.

I don't know. I thought this movie doesn't ask a ton of him. He's also sort of this, like, kind of low-key, no high emotions until that one unfortunate scene that I just talked about. Which works well, at least for me, for the movie, because, like, you can imagine the version of this movie that, like, leans in hard to how, like, gengly he is or scrawny he is, you know, or, like, really punches that up. And it doesn't feel like whatever the shortcomings are of this child that the movie, like, slams those in our face like it does with all the other characters. It's the kind of movie that falls into the trap that a lot of movies about, young children between the ages of, let's say, six and twelve do, which is, it never quite has a handle on just how old this kid is emotionally.

Like, sometimes he's this sort of, like, precocious kid who will banter back and forth with his mom and sort of, like, you know, understands more than you realize. And sometimes he'll just, like, talk to Vincent and just be like, you're mean man, You're a sad man. And it's just like, well, like, and I get that, like, whatever, children are complicated. But ultimately, I think this movie doesn't have a really tight grasp on, like, how old is Oliver? What's he like, you know, is he, I don't know, is he worldly? What are his hobbies?

Does he have a hobby? Movies love precocious kids because it allows you to write a kid as a little bit more like an adult. So it's a lot easier. movies have a tough time writing kids as kids. It's one of the things I really appreciate about a movie like Little Miss Sunshine is that like that girl is not precocious. That girl is a kid with all of those limitations that come with that and it understands that.

And I like that. Yes. I don't know why that's my example for that, but it is. However, we should still talk about the reason we are here. in the month of May, Ms. Naomi Watts. We should. St. Vincent in the SAG-nominated performance she gives as Katia Zamolochikovah. It is a rash, not a herpesore.

Yeah. Ketrina, Petrovna, Zamolachikova, but you're dead just calls me Katia. What do we think? What do we think about the performance and the character? she apparently said that she went method and like shade in the dialect the whole time she said she introduced herself to Bill Murray after like in the accent

and was in character when she which by the way and she said it because she said it was because she had heard about what a kind of prickly and not super easy to get on his good side person, Bill Murray is, and she said she was intimidated by him, obviously. So she said she came in in character almost to throw him off, you know, to just be like, well, maybe I'll just like

make him afraid of me instead. And I was just like, not a bad, not a bad idea on paper. In practice, I can't imagine it endeared to him very much at all. Not given the performance. However, If it truly was to, like, get one over on Bill Murray or to, like, assert some dominance in the scene, I absolutely commend her for that. Sure. I, okay, even with all of the faults of this movie and this movie, like, kind of being a battering ram in all of the things, it still feels like she's in a different movie. Yes. because it's so gosh and like

it's very it's very Saturday Night Live it's very comedy sketch it's very shocking she doesn't smoke in this movie I know of all the like bad pregnant behaviors that she's a Russian sex worker who's pregnant

and like nobody knows and still on the pole like still dancing still dancing at the club with her like you know belly proud as you please she's got like 19 bra straps showing. She is a human bra strap.

She plays a sentient bra strap in this movie. I don't know. She's definitely very fun to watch in this movie. Yes, she's very watchable. She has things that come out of her mouth that it's like, ooh, that's highly problematic. Yes, yes. And the movie asks us to think that it's funny and it's not.

but I'm glad that somebody had a good time making this movie and it's going to be anybody, it should be Naomi. Yeah, it's, the accent is comical and not always in the way that it wants to be. It is a trip to Cuckoo Island. It is a trip fully to Cuckoo Island. It is a down payment on a condo on Cuckoo Island, is what it is. it's um also the character itself like daka's just there to make vincent's life seem more um like all the more

disreputable just sort of just like what else he goes to the track he you know he smokes all the time he's mean to children. And also, yes, his best friend is a pregnant Russian hooker who he also isn't very nice to. And maybe got her pregnant. Oh, yeah, that is always a little, a question throughout much of the movie. An unasked, sort of hovering over the movie. Yeah. And even so, it's still not like, yes, that is the function to make.

him seem like more of like a dirty old man right but at the same time it's not I don't know like it can't really have the courage of its convictions with what it is doing there because of how her character is portrayed and like you know it ends up being cuddly and like I do kind of commend the film for her having as much agency as she has um yeah I guess she gets to be funny but like Like, it's, she's essentially a comic relief character to a comedy. Yes, yes, exactly. And it, it's just weird and wild every time that it comes in. It's a small enough part that it's like, you could maybe cast not someone who's famous.

I don't know why Naomi wants his face is on the poster for this movie. Yeah. To make you think it's some type of neighborhood heist movie. Right. Yes, I'm really surprised. that it didn't ever become a thing where they had to like steal something for him to make his

payments that he owed money on or whatever she has an incredible ability DACA, the character to just sort of show up places. She's like just kind of there. She's at the hospital

like how'd she get conjured there? Like she's at the house. She's at the nursing home when, you know, Vincent goes to pick up his, his dead wife's ashes at the end of the movie. And it's just like, and just, DACA's just sort of there. Like, what is she doing, like, in her regular life, taking care of herself with, you know, however pregnant she is. Like, no, not really. We see one scene of her at the, uh, the OBGYN getting an ultrasound or whatever, which is an interesting thing because it's like it's the only time when the movie steps out of the

perspective of either Vincent or Oliver and it's it does with um Melissa McCarthy's character because she has that oh right she's a scene at work yes yes yeah yeah yeah you're right um good but still DACA is like the last character he would expect to get their own scene you like basically Terence Howard as like truly the person who's most screwed over by this movie like he kind of even gets his own moment when Vincent has his stroke but it's very bizarre to see her on her own in this movie I don't know

it's not a good performance but I am not like it is not worth necessarily dogging over because like she full on got a SAG nomination for that, and it is the wildest precursor nomination in the past decade. It's super up there. I'm very glad it did not translate into an Oscar nomination. That ended up going to Laura Dern in Wild, one of my very favorite nomination morning surprises of the last, you know, my entire time watching those things, really. I was so, so happy. That's an interesting year for supporting actress, if you want to kind of dive into this at this moment. This is the year that our favorite medium, Patty Arquette, wins for Boyhood, nominated.

Steamrolls through the season. Steamrolls through the season wins absolutely everything. Boyhood is a movie that sort of started that Oscar season kind of at the top of the hill, and people thought that was the movie to beat. It ends up winning the Golden Globe for Best Picture and Best Direct If you recall, Birdman, only one screenplay at that Globes. Didn't even win Best Picture, Musical, or Comedy, lost that to... Michael Keaton won, though, right?

Michael Keaton won, Best Actor. Yes, you're right. He did. Best Actor Musical, or Comedy. But Best Picture Musical or Comedy goes to Grand Budapest Hotel that year. See, Vincent, by the way, also nominated for Best Picture Musical or Comedy that year alongside alongside Birdman, Grand Budapest, into the woods, which, you know, dubious, though that may be it was fully expected.

I remember being none more confident about anything that I was that Emily Blunt was going to get the best actress and a comedy nomination for Into the Woods. St. Vincent is a nominee, and then my favorite nominee of all five of them, my beloved pride about the Welsh minor strike and the gays who loved them. Support the minors. Where are my lesbians? Where are my lesbians? Absolutely.

Yes. We've talked about this movie enough, listeners, in like, random episodes. if you haven't seen the movie Pride yet, please do yourself a favor, bring some joy to your day, and watch that movie. Easily the best of those five nominees at the Globes that year. But so Patricia Arquette beats out

Kira Knightley in The Imitation game. I say a good performance that probably wouldn't have made my top five. Emma Stone and Birdman kind of ditto. I think I like that performance, but I don't think I'd have put that in my top five. Meryl and Into the Woods a, I think,

not great performance. I know everybody gets on. I know everybody gets on Florence Foster Jenkins as like the Nadir of her 2010's Oscar attention. I think this is. I think this belonged nowhere near a nomination. I'm never going to say anything bad about Merrill. I love Merrill, but like, no, this isn't the thing. We would never suggest or propagate the extensive rumors that perhaps that is not all her voice in that movie. Oh, are those rumors? I've never heard that, actually. Uh-huh. Who did they say it is?

Donna Murphy. I've never heard this. Oh. No, expand upon this. Tell the children. This is just things that I have heard from many, many people. I do not have a sound booth, gay engineer who was there that has spread this. I've heard it enough.

I never have. God knows I love Donna Murphy. I saw Donna Murphy play The Witch and Into the Woods in Central Park at my one time ever going to the Broadway, whatever series it is. Shakespeare in the Park. Amy Adams would like you to not remember that that production happened. Amy Adams was fine. Here's the thing. She wasn't great. She was fine. Donna Murphy was the business. Donna Murphy was so great. She blew everybody else, including the raccoons who wandered onto that stage. off of the stage she was literally were there's animals crawling on the park there were so yeah it's it's right out in the open uh out of doors in the middle of central park the delacourt theater it is the smallest seats i've ever had the displeasure of having to sit in it truly for a person of size

like myself was a nightmare it was absolutely terrible i like i literally after we like got up i like apologized to my friend who I was in my future, my, uh, wasn't roommates with him at the time, but my current roommate. Um, I was like, I'm very sorry because I'm literally just like, splayed out over everything in this, whatever. But so at, as night begins to fall, and, you know, the, the stage is sort of this, like, the only source of, like, light in the universe. Um, these, like, little creepy crawly critters make it, uh, like, on and around the stage. And, like, you'll see, like, at the periphery, these raccoons, just kind of crawling around. And it's, like, a whole other, like, thing to pay attention to.

But, yeah, Amy Adams was in this as the baker's wife, Dennis O'Hare as the baker, Donna Murphy is the witch. And Donna Murphy was spectacular. Obviously, you're never going to be able to touch Bernadette Peters in this role. She's sort of, like, you know, defined that role on Broadway. But Donna Murphy killed it. So if they wanted to... We talked about the Into the Woods with Vanessa Williams was the first thing saw on Broadway?

No. Tell me about that. I remember so little of it. I remember we had Laura Benanti's understudy, and Vanessa Williams was great. Who played, I want to say, it was Jesse Mueller, played Cinderella in this production, although don't swear me to that, but I think that was the case. Like, it was a really good production of Into the Woods. I was very, very glad I saw it as uncomfortable as I was through the entirety of it.

But, yeah. To bring it back to this year's supporting actress race, we should say the four performances that you mentioned are the ones that show up at all the precursors. Patricia Arquette, again, for boyhood, winning all of them. And the Stone for Birdman, Kira Knightley for imitation game, and Meryl for Into the Woods. And then that fifth spot is in flux everywhere, basically. The Globes wisely went for Jessica Chastain and her fingernails in a most violent ear. Right, right. Yes.

and the Oscars We throw around the word iconic Way too much It has lost all meaning What a great line reading Yeah Fully fucking iconic Her fingernails in that movie

It's very disrespectful In that movie Yeah Her single tears in that movie Yeah as I said I think Knightley and Emma Stone Are both good in their movies But like if you look at everybody

Who gets passed over this year This is the Year of Gone Girl So obviously both Carrie Coon and Kim Dickens are phenomenal in that. Definitely could have been nominated in another year. Probably both on my ballot. Carmen Ojogo is so good in Selma this year.

Mini Driver is so good in Beyond the Lights. Renee Russo in Nightcrawler is this year. Kristen Stewart in Still Alice is this year. My personal second place that year, I thought Patricia Harcette was my number one. But Marissa Tomei in Love is Strange,

the Iris Sacks movie. is phenomenal and so good. It's... It is an embarrassment of riches this year that really just goes like incredibly deep and ultimately happy for Kira, happy for Emma. It's interesting that Emma Stone's Oscar nominations

are Birdman and Lala Land. Two movies she's very good in and yet I would absolutely ride for her in other movies, like, to be her nomination. Well, the favorite, too. Like, that's, to me, her best performance. Me too. She's nominated and supporting when she's the protagonist.

She's the lead in that movie, yeah. Yeah, how would you, have you ever talked about that? How, because I know that was a big, nobody, no two people, even though there's only a set number of permutations of that, everybody seemed to have a different idea of what they would do lead in supporting with the women in the favorite. I always said that it's either Emma as the sole lead. and Rachel and Olivia Coleman as supporting, or Emma and Rachel is the leads and Olivia and supporting.

And see, I agree with something completely different. I think it is Olivia and Emma that should have been campaigned in lead, and Rachel is the supporting performance, because it comes down to what that, like, final stretch of the movie is for me. I know she's absent for a lot of that movie, yeah. It's not even, like, a screen time thing. It's that, like, ultimately that character, and that's what's so, like, maybe heartbreaking's the wrong word, but, like, heartbreaking

about Rachel Weiss's character is that she's in service of them, and, like, that's a blind side to her as a person as a character, is that, like, it was never about her. Yeah. Yeah, I think I put Emma in lead and probably the other two in supporting is how I would do that. I think it's very, very much you enter the movie through this sort of, like, naive perspective. of Emma Stone, and you exit the movie with her having sort of come around on this evolution to being this Machiavellian creature who then creates a golden prison for herself, essentially. And, like, that's, that's not the only story in the movie, but that's the main story in this

movie. And I think, yeah. Anyway, Emma Stone is great. So, yeah, Emma Stone's wonderful. Jessica Chastain was probably the one everybody was predicting for that fifth Oscar slot even though it still felt like it could have gone anywhere because of these precursors and it's so interesting that's why this supporting actress here is so fascinating to me

that it goes to Laura Dern who shows up at no precursors has some like critics mentions for critics prizes in the season so it's not like a full Marina de Tavira but like it was a surprise that morning I took a lot of credit for that because I just screamed for weeks about how great all the phone numbers of all of the Academy's acting. And I just called them up and I'm just like, do you realize what she's doing in this movie?

Do I regret marrying a piece of alcoholic asshole? No. Not for one second, because I got you and your brother. See how it works? easy. You did a spam ring of spam calls

to everybody. Yes. But Critics' Choice also had Jessica Chastain in that spot, but because they have six, it was Tilda Swinton for Snowpiercer, which I think is a rad nomination. It is a rad nomination. Yeah. And then SAG

goes with Naomi, which feels like an even bigger curveball than Laura Dern ultimately getting that Oscar nomination. It has to be because she had this and Birdman, right? I guess so, yeah, because... But they're not going to nominate that, I guess.

But I don't understand why you would nominate this and not what she's doing at Birdman. I wonder... Part of me, the conspiracy theorist in me is just like, I wonder if that's like a butterfly ballot situation, like, where people just sort of like lined up on the wrong line, whereas just like Naomi Watts, St. Vincent, Naomi wants Birdman, and they all checked the wrong box. I don't know.

It's, obviously Birdman was a favorite at the Sags that year because it wins best ensemble cast. Naomi does get a SAG award there. And trips on her way to give a speech. Sure, damn does, but she's so excited. It's so heartening to see how excited. Would this have been the first major award she would have won? at something of this level. Sagg, Globe. Obviously, she's never won an Oscar.

She's never won a Globe. It's exciting to see somebody get that, you know, hyped about finally winning an award. I agree. And it's like, I don't know. The thing about Naomi, especially when you watch her in interviews and, like, you see her on that stage,

she just seems like a real good person, you know, like, too. So it's also that thing of like, you want to see the nice people win. Was this the year also? though, of maybe it wasn't. What was the one year at the Sags where she and Nicole are sitting next to each other

and they had that one reaction shot where it's like Nicole in the foreground and Naomi in the background but you can see like they're both in focus and they're both staring incredibly intensely at the camera or like past the camera.

It's for somebody's like, it's for somebody's acceptance speech. It is and it's all it is is that they're like paying attention to what's happening. But they both look like witches about to cast a spell. Okay, after a brief bit of research,

it was the 2012 Saga Awards where Nicole was nominated for the Paperboy and Naomi was nominated for the Impossible. I am sending you this image, Chris, so that you can react to it. I just sent it to you. in the chat. It is iconography.

Intensity personified. Nicole is literally staring through the camera while Naomi, who is like inches behind her, is sort of like craning her neck in this very sort of like the portrait of a lady kind of like Barbara Hershey, just sort of

like, I will destroy you. It is both you and I listening to bad Oscar opinions. And it is also Timmy and Tommy Nook waiting for a customer to arrive to Nook's cranny. I don't even play that cursed game, and I still think that's a fine reference, sir. Yeah, Nicole and Naomi, not employer and employee, but rather friends.

And I'm happy about it. What else? What else can we talk about this year? You know what's funny about St. Vincent? is it didn't really fail by any of the metrics that we tend to go by when we talk about like It got good reviews. It made a decent amount of money, especially given what it is. For a wine Zinko movie, it made good money. Yeah.

Made $44 million. It's certified fresh on Rotten Tomatoes in case you needed another reason to know why Rotten Tomatoes is not a good metric. I think this is an okay movie. I'm just going to say it. I think it's an actively abysmal movie. I don't love it. I'm not going to watch it on purpose after this. This is the second time I've watched it. It will probably be the last. But I didn't despise it. That's my pull quote. What I will say is like the Rotten Tomatoes metacritic balance makes sense to me, even though I think like this is obviously like a rotten movie if you want to put it in those terms. But it is 77% rotten tomatoes, but 64% on a Metacritic. critic. So it's like, the reviews are good, but they are by the means. They're not rapturous. Well, and that's the thing. For a movie that got good reviews and the

movie that made decent money, it was, it did not permeate the culture at all. Like, the, the sort of meager awards attention that it got was the pinnacle. And only people who really pay attention to awards stuff like we do really knew about it. You don't, I mean, even like Bill Murray heads. Like, Bill Murray has fans, has some fans out there. Like, if you know the internet, you know Bill Murray fans. And, like, even Bill Murray fans don't really ever talk about St. Vincent at all. Like, this is not a movie that found, you know, fertile ground in pop culture whatsoever. The many times that Bill Murray has played this character, this is, like, the bottom of the bill for the times people all mention it. Right, right. Like, people fucking love him in Zombie

land for a minute and a half, but, like, they do not have time for St. Vincent. I do also think that this is a year where you have the top of the heap, or at least at the end of the day with Oscar, the two big movies are comedies that can be taken, like, more highfalutin seriously, right? Because between Grand Budapest and Birdman, Oscar really only ever makes enough room for, or so much room for comedies. Right. Although this is interesting because this was the first year that a Wes Anderson live action movie made it into Best Picture, Best Director. Still doesn't get acting nominations, which is insane because Ray Fines is a phenomenal and be the clear lead. Like sometimes you look at a Wes Anderson movie. And Ray Fines doesn't have an Oscar. That's the thing that I never really understand why that didn't take off. And two nominations. Right, right, exactly. They loved him in the 90s. But sometimes with West Anderson movies, even with something like Gene. Hackman and Royal Tenenbaum's who like,

Gene Hackman's the lead in Royal Tennebombs and he gives a very awardable performance and by which I mean it's showy in the right way, I think. But a lot of Wes Anderson movies, Moonrise Kingdom, which had gotten a lot of critical attention and didn't quite make it with Oscar, but you got the feeling it was close. That's a real ensemble. Like, it's kids as the leads and then everybody else is ensemble.

And so it's like, okay, I get why nobody really rose to the level of being an Oscar nominee from there. But, like, Ray Fines is the show in Darjeeling Limited. Eight billion actors are in this movie, but Ray Fines is the show. And... You mean Grand Budapest? What did I say? Darjeeling Limited?

It's on the brain. I don't know. Yes, Ray Fines in Grand Budapest. He is the moment. He is the legend. And, you know... He has a point. Now, come on now.

What was I going to say? Right. So this was the first time, you know, he gets the nomination for Fantastic Mr. Fox. But this was the breakthrough movie for Wes Anderson. And this is the movie. that now with the French dispatch coming whenever we get big movies again. That's why people are looking at the French dispatch

and being like, oh, this could be a big Oscar player because now the Oscars have... Especially now that it's opening finger quotes in the fall. Right. Welcomeed Wes Anderson into their warm embrace, is what I was going to say, but yes. We can't end this conversation without mentioning that St. Vincent is an AARP movie for grown-up's winner

for best intergenerational story in one of the more predictable awards mentions we've had on this podcast. It's generally, I, that's not a bad nomination. It is the definition of an intergenerational story. Like, it is, it's, they are not bullshitting you with this. They are not trying to pull the wool over.

There have been sometimes that we've mentioned it and we're like, what does that mean? Right. What is your criteria and like this, this is the example to say this is what this category is. I'm trying, okay, can I take a second to try and guess what some of the other ones might have been that year or what the other nominees that year? Okay, I fully spent over an hour trying to find because they're not on IMDB and you can see why. Oh, no, they don't have the other nominees? I can't find it anywhere.

I can't find it on the AARP website, which is kind of an SEO nightmare. There's like no navigational things. You can find a page that has all of their winners, but like there is no frustrating thing when you're looking up awards information to me. then you have your winners posted, but not a link to what all the nominees are. Then here's what I'm going to do, is I'm going to take a very quick cursory glance at the films of 2014 as per my nerd list, and I'm going to throw out some possibilities that could have been good intergenerational stories. It's not intergenerational love story. It's just intergenerational stories. So, A, let's see, what do we have here?

They gave Best Grown Up Love Story to Love is Strange, which that fucking rules. I would be willing to bet that it is an intergenerational story nominee then. Because it's them and their younger relatives. Oh, right, yeah, yeah, yeah. Right, the teenage boy. That's not a bad one. I was thinking if you wanted to go a darker route, Whiplash, definitely an intergenerational story from that year. Not a happy one, but definitely one. You have

Annie, which is, come on, an intergenerational story between Annie and either Ms. Hanigan or Daddy Warbucks. So either one of those would work. Laggies is by definition an intergenerational story where Kira Knightley befriends younger people. That was 24. Thank you for bringing up Lynn Shelton's laggies. It's a good movie. I like that movie. I'm happy with it. I like Lynn Shelton's movies.

Of course, Tammy, which is a story of Melissa McCarthy and her grandmother, Susan Sarandon, finding common ground. And of course, Godzilla, which is an ancient monster unearthed from the ground, who, you know, has a complicated relationship with both Aaron. and Taylor Johnson and Elizabeth Olson. Long before... Let's not forget the judge where Robert Duval is confronted with the vastness of time itself. Let's forget the judge.

Let's perhaps, let's perhaps forget the judge. A couple other possibilities that year. Of course, Beyond the Lights, intergenerational story, mother and daughter, a fantastic movie. Still Alice, the story of a mother and a daughter. Absolutely. Into the woods about an old-ass

witch and the younger people she put curses on. Yeah, put curse on a baby. For, you know, someone's stealing her beans. It's a whole thing. Look at it. It's fantastic. You're always spilling your beans. Finding Vivian Mayer, a documentary about a young hipster, uh, unearthing photos by an old ass, uh, maybe lesbian photographer. I also think pride would be a really good. Yes. nominee there. Absolutely. Different generations of people working together for protests.

I love that. I absolutely love that. That's fantastic. Yeah, lots of good possibilities for the 100-foot journey, Helen Mirren and that young would-be chef in that movie. Very fun and good. Lots of stuff. Mommy, about, you know, the kid and his mommy. Intergenerational there.

Excellent film. Excellent film. Fantastic film. Yeah, lots of ways this could go. X-Men, Days of Future Past. It's about the future and the past. It's all happening. And, you know, and oh, by the way, boyhood,

which is an intergenerational story about a child and his older self. Yes. Yes. A generation going through their generation. Exactly. Yeah. Into their generation. Wow.

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, what's going on? Can we talk briefly about how Ted Melfi's next movie also stars Melissa McCarthy and Chris O'Dout? And it's not, he did something between this and Hidden Figures? Maybe. Am I crazy?

He wrote the script for going in style, but he did not direct it. And that was actually after Hidden Figures. No, this next movie after St. Vincent is Hidden Figures. But no, he's got a movie in, according to Wikipedia, post-production, called The Starling, that he wrote, although he did, or he directed, but didn't write, which is sort of a swerve for him, starring Melissa McCarthy, Chris O'Dowd, Kevin Klein, Timothy Oliphant, DeVeed Diggs, my beloved, Skyler Gizondo from Booksmart, among other things. Oh, the nice boy from Booksmart. Melissa McCarthy and Chris O'Dowd apparently play a married couple who are going through it and McCarthy becomes, in a very cliched sentence that I'm reading, McCarthy becomes obsessed with a starling bird that has nested in her backyard that begins to harass and attack her

and she becomes, and this is a quote, comically obsessed with killing it, which is, you know, that's fun. Love to see myself represented in media. And then she bonds with a, again, quoting, quirky psychologist turned veterinarian with a troubled past of his own, played by Kevin Klein. So it feels like Ted Melfy is maybe not straying too far from... This is the one that got, like, the record deal with Netflix, right? It is a Netflix movie. Yes.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yes. Interesting, indeed. Not saying that it's going to be great, but again... I was concerned that the Starling was going to be pushing these, like, character reboots way too extreme and that it would be a Clary Starling origin story that's like the Batman the Superman would watch

if Absolutely would watch But would you want it to be Jody, Julianne or someone new? Oh someone new Yeah wasn't the I thought it was Ellen Page But wasn't there also the

It wasn't maybe it wasn't Hannibal but they thought of doing an origin story or redoing something to the lambs. And I thought it was Cershaw was a name that was thrown around. Oh, that's interesting.

Truly the one that I think could take up the Jody Foster mantle. Yeah. Oh, yes, for sure. Absolutely. Absolutely for sure. Let me go through my notes here about St. Vincent.

Stealth and Dowd, of course. She just sort of shows up there as she does in hereditary. Oh, remember how there's that one really, like, dumb joke about, like, where he's trying to teach the kid to be tough, and he's like, if you haven't noticed, I'm very small, and he goes, Hitler was small, and he's like, that's a terrible joke to make. And then when Jaden finally punches the bully at gym class and whatever breaks his nose, the blood on his face has a very sort of, like, Hitler stash appearance to it. And I'm like, I hope that wasn't intentional, because that's a dumb. And then he grew up to be a Nazi youth jerking off in the bathroom. Yes, it knives out.

The prophecy is complete. Also, I literally yesterday started watching Defending Jacob on Apple Plus, which I'm kind of very into, actually, where Chris Evans and Michelle Dockery are the parents of young Jaden, Martel Neal Lieberhaer, who was accused of stabbing a classmate to death. And I was just like, man, we really have followed the darkest timeline for little Jaden, where he's playing. like murderers and people who instruct their mothers to commit murder and young Hitler youth

in Knives Out. He was trying to tell us something. Yeah. I noticed to understand the way he is, mine hair. Stop it! Not a land. Stop it! That's... A Nazi youth is still a Nazi.

Not a Martel, mine hair. Don Cheadle is an executive producer on this movie. I would have liked to have, I don't know if I would have liked this movie a lot better if he plays the Bill Murray role, but like, you know, if you're going to put your money behind this movie, yeah. I did

write this million dollar baby ass macushla swerve in this movie after he had the stroke. That was sort of my last gasp of critical assessment of this movie. Makushla means my daughter, my blood. Also, if you could have

seen me trying to spell, McCushla on this little notebook that I'm writing my notes on. And finally I just like gave up. Isn't it like C-U-I-S? The Irish are frankly insane. The Irish just don't know how to fucking spell. They're just, they'll try to spell Chavon at some point in your life and you will. Can't believe Annie Prue's not. Go frankly insane.

Yes. Anyway, um, St. Vincent. St. Vincent. With that, I think we're wrapping up our Naomi Watts mini-series. Yes. Joe, how have you felt about this journey, this experiment? I did note. We're set on making May the mini-series for us. May-O-May.

It was interesting to look at a performer in this when, like, last year we did a full year. Yes. Hopefully our listeners got the sense of, like, what her awards trajectory. Trying to sum up Naomi Watts's, uh, Oscar career, an Oscar sort of career of Oscar, often futility. In four movies was tough. I thought it was interesting that in four movies, we didn't pick one movie where she does that American accent that we seem to love so well.

But, yeah, I think... A divorce, she's American. What's that? She's American and La Divorce. Oh, you're right, she is. I'm already now far enough away from that movie being like, it's an, it's a, it's, It's in France. It's in Europe, like whatever. Oh, yeah. The movie's fully evaporated from my mind already.

Fully evaporated from my mind, except for that damn bag floating through the air. It's still floating through the... It is. If you look right now, if you're listening to this in Paris, look out your window. You will see it. Yeah. Naomi after St. Vincent, I want to sort of like walk us up to a moment of hope. I don't know. It gets worse before it gets better for Naomi after St. Vincent. she falls into the

quicksand pit on celluloid that is the divergent series where she gets cast as the mother The incomplete divergent series. The mother of Theo James, who is, I'm pretty sure, supposed to be the ultimate antagonist after, like, they

dispatch of Kate Winsland in that movie, I think Naomi is supposed to step in as the, like, she's the one who they are going to have to, like, get one over on at the end. But, like, that movie fully gets cut off in a still like it's amazing to me that they just absolutely cut that off and did not even like even the maze runner got to finish its you know trilogy or whatever but like

not divergent oh no um she's in the gus van sant utter disaster the sea of trees a movie i've still never seen um the her terrible 2015 tiff run where she's in Three Generations, which was, I forget what it was originally called when I saw it. It went through like four different titles. It did. Each one making it blander and blander, so you wouldn't know what the movie was. Right. El Fanning plays a young transgender boy in that movie to not as much controversy as you would have expected, but only because nobody saw that movie.

And then Demolition, a movie I fully saw and cannot remember what Naomi Watts' character's deal was in that movie. because that movie is Jake Gyllenhauls. That's another, we talked last week with Richard Lawson about sort of picking the right directors at the wrong time. And, like, literally, you couldn't have thrown a dart at a Jean-Marg Valle dartboard and been more precise about hitting the exact wrong project to go to. And it was demolition, like, fully forgettable.

She wasn't in Big Little Lies. She wasn't even in Dallas Biers Club, which not everybody loves, but certainly was a success. It's an Oscar winner. Demolition. 2016, talk to me about Chuck and Shudden, two things I don't know what they are. Well, for starters, they don't exist. Shuddin is basically some random horror movie that she does. That doesn't really get a huge release.

Chuck, however, is a boxing biopic that stars Liev Schreiber. Interesting. Yes. so that kind of makes sense that she's a supporting role in that I don't know how big her role is because like the first build woman is Elizabeth Moss Right

So like here's these ones where it's fully like why she Like you can at least understand the bad ones that like fall away Like even the divergent movies It's like that was a franchise She gets to be the primary villain Or like she's playing mothers in those other movies. Call her mother.

Working with a director like Gus Van Sant. Yeah. 2017, it's interesting. Things start to rebound for her, but in a really weird kind of way. So, like, she's in the Glass Castle, another, we almost covered that one for this mini-series, a classic.

This had Oscar Buzz movie. Dustin Daniel Cretton's follow-up to short-term 12. Bree Larson's follow-up to Room. It does not succeed for anybody. Not Naomi, not Woody Harrelson, not anybody.

So that's a total miss. She's in Twin Peaks the Return, kind of a lot from what I watched. I did not watch that full season because sorry, I'm not smart enough to watch Twin Peaks the Return. I still want to catch up to it, but it is at all. I mean, I guess some part of me

that fancies myself, an intellectual, wants to finish that, but like, honest to God, I can't. I can't feel that stupid every week. But, like, she gets a lot of good, positive attention for that, A, for sort of reuniting with this beloved director, and they have such a fun relationship together.

But also, like, people really like her performance. She's in Netflix's television series, Gypsy, which does not get good reviews and doesn't really... It's, like, canceled, like, weeks after it premieres. Very soon. Like, it takes a lot for Netflix to cancel a show, and they cancel that one fast. It usually takes two or three seasons.

Yes, yeah, they gave up on that one very quickly. And then, of course, as I mentioned, she reunites with Jaden Lieberhaer in the Book of Henry, a movie that absolutely gets savaged, but in a way that only really harms, um, what's his nuts? Colin Trevor. He loses a Star Wars movie because of it. He loses a Star Wars movie over it. He becomes sort of a laughingstock. But, like, it doesn't really harm Naomi. And in fact, I think because so many people watch that movie for the lulls, like, she gets actually kind of

a lot of attention for that movie in a way that like is value neutral for her as a career. I don't think anybody looked at that movie and is just like, wow, Naomi Watts has hit rock bottom. It's this like... No, not at all. This is the thing about Naomi and I brought it up in previous episodes. It's like

she has had some like rules that have asked her to do some bonkers shit and like make it real. And like I do think she does right by that in the movie where it's like everything that her character goes through is bananas. It is absurd. It is absolutely laughable. But like, she plays it on its face. She does it straight. And, like, that is commendable to me. And, like, her performance isn't something that you're laughing at. You're just laughing at what the character is doing. She's not, like, it's good that it has not harmed. Weirdly, I mean, it's such a strange thing to say, but weirdly, I do feel like that movie is a slight positive for her just because so many people saw it. Um, 2018, she's a cameo and vice.

In 2019, here's where it starts to get interesting again, is two movies I, again, have never heard of. We'll start with the lower end of the spectrum. The Wolfing Hour and Ophelia. Talk to me about those. The Wolf Hour is another horror movie that nobody has seen. Ophelia is the Daisy Ridley-starring Hamlet adaptation that is from the perspective of Ophelia, and she plays Gertrude. Interesting. Nobody has seen this movie.

No, absolutely not. played Sundance like a year or year and a half before it saw theaters two of them and was on VOD. That year she also has loose. Yes. Which is very good. I mean, like, some people have different opinions. It's very stagey.

You can absolutely tell it's a stage adaptation. Yeah. But everybody in that movie is on fire, including Naomi Watts. I've said, I think that it is Octavia Spencer's best performance. She's great. Also, um, is it Calvin Harrison? Who's the thing I met? Fantastic in that.

Yeah, she's also on Showtime in the loudest voice playing Gretchen Carlson, the same role, obviously, that Nicole Kinman plays in Bombshell. I also, in the outline here for The Wolf Hour, you did write The Wolfing Hour, which is why I said that, and which has me really imagining... Is it not the Wolfing Hour? It has me imagining Naomi Watts starring in a remake of The Children's Hour with Werewolves? Yeah, it's the cat's version of the children's hour. They just, like, slowly become wolves as...

Jellicle songs for Jellicle Secret Lesbians. Oh, my God, the naming of the wolves is absolutely my favorite part of the wolfing hour, for sure. All right, what's your button? What's your button on Naomi Watts as we have now pulled into... I think things are maybe... starting to, again, with loose the loudest voice, I think things are starting to look up in terms of, you know,

her public perception. I think here's what kind of gives me hope for Naomi Watts to eventually have, like, the Oscar nomination we're excited about, or possibly the Oscar win, is that

she doesn't, if you follow her on Instagram, she has a wonderful, like, silly insane Instagram account. She fully posted a clip of herself from St. Vincent during all of like

the beginning of quarantine of her saying, it's going to be okay, or whatever. And I'm like, you know what? She's self-promoting, but also doesn't take herself too seriously. And that to me, if you're the type of performer,

if she just gets the opportunity to do something, I feel like everything I say, if she can do this, St. Vincent's is also kind of the example for. So when I say this, I mean not St. Vincent. But to do something out of the box, probably a supporting role that like is not what she usually does and is maybe a little out there. Yeah. Like the days of IHeard Huckabees, Mulholland Drive. Yes. And I think that's still possible, still coming. What doesn't give me a ton of hope is looking at her upcoming projects on IMDB,

one of which is a action thriller called Boss Level, starring Mel Gibson and Frank Grillo. Poor Naomi and Michelle Yo have to endure this film called Boss Level, directed by Joe Carnahan, who once upon a time had gotten awards. attention for NARC, but has since made films like the A-Team and the Grey, and ultimately is not a director I want in charge of Naomi Watts's well-being as a performer. Or time, yes. She's also in a movie called

Penguin Bloom, which is in post-production according to IMDB, where the log line for that is a family takes in an injured magpie that makes a profound difference in their lives. So truly, the stars of St. Vincent are going to be starring in some movies where birds really affect them in the coming months and years. She's in this movie. I believe her husband in this movie is Andrew Lincoln of the Walking Dead and Love Actually fame. I don't have a ton of hope for that one either. She's also... She also has... Go for it. it's a bloomhouse horror movie right am i crazy i'm just gonna assume you're not crazy

okay bloomhouse usually um expected to deliver product that makes money and gets people excited for a week um when they are not uh forbidden island what's the what's the what's the project uh it's called once upon a time in staten island as with most bloomhouse product the plot is not really known, but it is some type of family drama that you can imagine is probably a horror movie. It's interesting, because Blumhouse doesn't do exclusively horror movies. I think they do sort of like step out of that every once in a while. It's like what they're known for, though. Oh, yeah, absolutely. It's what they do well. Absolutely. She's in this movie with Bobby Conavalli. Again, weirdly Frank Grillo. I don't know why all of a sudden we're getting all the Naomi Watts, Frank

Grillo joints. But yeah, Naomi and Bobby Kahnivali in that one. Yeah, I like her. I like her a lot. I wish her great success in her career. I don't know if it's ever going to, if she's ever going to get that Oscar winning role that maybe I want her to. But honestly, she's going to be so happy if it ever happens. And I want to see that moment.

And I'm telling you right now, I'm going to need everybody to be happy for her. because I don't want to hear the jokes. I know. I don't want the meanness. I don't want it. I don't want that for her. We love Naomi. Yes.

All right. We hope you guys liked this, you know, mini-series. Obviously, we will get our heads churning for whatever the next one is. But we've got some really interesting things coming down the pike for y'all, including in a few short weeks, our 100 episode. Can you believe it? We are going to have a hundred, at least 100, like, movie episodes. A hundred proper episodes, and we've had some bonuses along the way. But yeah, we've covered 100 movies on this little podcast.

And the hundredth one... What could the title be? I'm so excited to talk about this movie. I'm not going to give you guys any hints as to what it is, but I'm just going to say, I'm so excited. Dig through previous episodes. There has maybe... Yeah, we may have...

We may have dropped a hint at some point or another, but... It is something that we've been talking about from, like, the very beginning of a movie that we could do. And privately, we've had this one earmarked for our 100th episode for quite a while, so... Yeah. Yeah. Because it's... 100 episodes requires something... Yeah.

Huge to talk about. Brace yourselves. So we're going to talk about it. Yeah. Okay. We've saved this one. We have. For a special occasion.

Yes. We're going to do it. But should we move on to the IMDB game? Yes, let's. Oh, why don't I explain what it is? Yes, please do. Explain to our lovely listeners. What, the IMDB game?

Yeah, oh, you know, the IMDB game. Every week we end our episodes with the IMDB game. We challenge each other with an actor or actress to try and guess the top four titles that IMDB says they are most known for. And if any of those titles are television or a voiceover work, we mention that up front. After two wrong guesses, we get the remaining titles release years as a clue. If that's not enough, it becomes what?

a free for all of hints because we are hint friendly at this podcast. Indeed, that's the IMDB game. Would you like to give her guests first, Joseph? Why don't I give first? Okay. So, as you know, I travel a path from the movie in question to whatever I'm going to give you for IMDB game. This week, Theodore Ted Melfy, as I mentioned a little bit ago, he wrote but did not

direct the, I believe it's a remake, right, going in style? I think that was a remake of an earlier movie. Anyway. But it is older actors doing what I'm guessing is some type of crime. It's a heist, I think, of some kind of a thing. The poster is Alan Arkin, Morgan Freeman, and Michael Kane with like bags full of money and Freeman's got a gun and they're in front of a a brick wall with the lines, the horizontal lines with the height markers on it that you would have in a police lineup. So, yeah, the tagline to this movie is you're never too old to get even. It is, you know, if you loved Last Vegas, you'll certainly love going in style. I do not have never too old to get even. You are sometimes too old to get odd.

Stay normal, everyone. This IMDB game has taken an odd turn. Um, yeah. So I'm not going to have you guess any of those three stars, but I will have you guess the IMDB top four of a supporting actor in this movie, Mr. Christopher Lloyd. Uh-huh. Okay. The question is, how many Back to the Futures are going to be on here? I definitely Back to the Future is there. Back to the Future. Part 1, 1985 is Back to the Future. Yes, exactly. Okay. Any television? No, sir. Uh, no television, you said? No television, no voice work. Okay.

Adam's family. No. No? Okay. Clue. Yes. Okay. He was probably in a Woody Allen movie, but if I can't remember what it was, I'm not going to guess it.

Um, Roger Rabbit? Correct. Okay. Um, hmm. Trying to think of, he's been in a lot of bad movies. It's highly likely that a bad movie is going to be on there. Do I think it's back to the future too?

I'm just going to say back to the future too. No. All right, what's my year? Oh, have you guessed two wrong already? Yes, because you guessed the Adams family. Yeah, I said Adams family, which I'm surprised isn't there. 1993. Okay.

Is it Angels in the Outfield? It is not Angels in the Outfield, although that is a very good guess. I believe that movie was 1994. So one year off. Is it when he plays the problematically villainous homeless person in The Menace the Menace? No, but that was 1993, so good... Is 1993 possibly back to the future three?

No, that was 1990. Ah. Okay. You're going to get mad when you find out what this one is. That's what I'm going to say. Why am I going to get mad? That possibly me specifically. Oh, okay.

Is it something like I... hate? Why am I going to be mad? Is it like, wait, it's, is it a voice performance? Is it the page master? No, no voice performances. I'm getting mad because I can't get it. God, 93. Yeah. None of those things that I guessed. No. I mean, what haven't I guessed? Is it? It can't be like Adam's Family Values because why would that be there and not?

Well, I mean, that's more of like a gay icon movie. Is it that? It's Adam's Family Values. You're fucking evil. Damn it. Listen, you were already doing too good. Not even like a tilt to your voice when you said no to Adam's family. No, no.

And I'll tell you why. Because you got back to the future and Clue so quickly. I was just like, I'm going to let him dangle on this. for a while. Yeah, yeah. That's not a terrible known for. No, it's a really good known for.

I think that's a very good strong known for. It's surprising that Cheers or Frazier isn't on there because people have producer credits and writers' credits

show up on their known for all the time when they're also a performer. Is that not a different Christopher Lloyd? Am I the idiot that thinks that it is a Oh, I did for the longest time.

I'm pretty sure that's a different Christopher Lloyd. there's not allowed to be more than one Christopher Lloyd I guess it is a different Christopher Lloyd Jesus Yeah learn something new every day Every day yes Please listeners shout at me at Twitter

If you have also just discussed this because I'm very embarrassed about this No How is there more than one Christopher Lloyd There is there absolutely is No yes no no no no no no That's like if there was multiple of the name of the person that I have for you for your IMDB game. This is not a name that you get to have multiple of these people.

I went the Naomi route in this movie, but more circuitous, because who is she playing in this movie? Katia Zamolojcchkiva. Who is the favorite actress or often referenced actress from Katia Zamaloghava? Your IMDB game challenge is Rebecca DeMorne. Okay. I get to be evil too No I like that

Rebecca de Mornay Do you remember that one Seinfeld episode where there was another character who was Rebecca de Mornay but she was just like she worked at the homeless shelter and she just kept Oh this was the thing I was looking There can only be one Rebecca de Mornay

This was also the thing where I was I was looking up something because I wanted to peg off of your Christopher Lloyd thing but there is a producer on the much lamented sitcom happy endings that I love so much. And one of the producers on that is named Jonathan Groff. And so it took me a second where I was just like, huh, good for Jonathan Groff. Jonathan can also be spelled multiple ways.

Like, if the Frazier Christopher Lloyd is going to keep that name, he needs to do Christopher with a K. Well, it didn't happen. That's just not fair to people like me who spend their whole lives thinking of that they are one. Rebecca DeMorne. Hand that rocks the cradle. Rebecca DeMorne. Hand that rocks the cradle.

scariest movie poster ever. It's so good. Julianne more comically dies. What's the thing she says to Annabella Shore at the end where she's just like, at the end of the day, you can't even breathe. Because like Annabelle Schor is like dying of an asthma attack or whatever. It's so good. It's my breast that your baby goes to.

Like it's so good. Okay. Um, risky biz, risky business. Risky business. All right. Here's where it gets harder. God, I so want to say, never talk to strangers, the movie where she bites Antonio Banderas's butt, but, but, uh, true story, that actually happens.

The dream. Look it up. The dream, truly the dream, to bite, like, mid-90s era, Antonio Banderas' juicy bottom. Um, all right. Miss Rebecca. on the tuchus. That's what he says to her in that movie. He says, bite me on my tukas.

Bite my tucas. All right, Rebecca, Rebecca, Rebecca. What was like the, the like, oh, backdraft? No, not backdraft. She plays Kurt Russell's wife, or maybe Billy. No, I think Kurt Russell's wife in backdraft. All right. I love that you're root to her.

was via Katya. All right. God, what were like the big Becky de Morne movies in like, I'm imagining this is like early 90s, late 80s kind of a thing, but I'm coming up blank. She doesn't

have a ton of movies. No, and she like, her career kind of like hits a wall quickly. and doesn't... She was apparently on Jessica Jones, but there's no TV credits on me. Oh, she is. She plays Rachel Taylor's mother, Patsy's stage mother in Jessica Jones.

She's quite good. Although it took me, like, multiple episodes to realize that that's who it was in this movie. All right. Early 90s, Rebecca DeMorne, like, I'm just going to guess. It's probably not it. But she's in that Three Musketeers movie that, um, Chris O'Donnell is in and Charlie Sheen of all people

With like I believe a Brian Adams song Oh not just Brian Adams This was It's all for one all for love sung by Brian Adams Rod Stewart and Sting All together Very excited to have our outro song

For the episode Not some random song By the singer St. Vincent's song I was absolutely going to put A St. Vincent song as the outro to this and just, like, let it sit there and people, like, have people arrive at that conclusion eventually. But, yeah, no, now I have to do this. Uh, but no, not the Three Musketeers movie.

Give me a year. Give me years. All right. So, your years are 2005 and 1985. A 20-year span. We love a 20-year span. Okay. Yes.

80s de Mornay. So she's in... This is a multiple Oscar-nominated movie. So Risky Business is like 83, 84. So this is like right after or not too long after. You said it's multiple Oscar nominees? Multiple Oscar nominations, two acting nominations for two cursed actors. And I cannot imagine, every time I see this as a trivia set, I'm like, I might need to watch this movie because I don't buy this.

All right, Oscar nominees from 1985. It's probably not. A Geraldine Page movie. She's on the poster. She's on the poster. Okay. So. With the two nominated actors.

Actors, not actresses. Actors. Okay, so 85. Kiss of the Spider Woman is that year. I doubt it's that. Pritzie's honor. I don't think she's in that. Witness.

I don't think she's in that. Cacoon. She's definitely not in that. 85 Oscars. Out of Africa, no. You mentioned Kiss of the Spider-Woman, and I mentioned she is the top-billed woman, put some respect on Sonia Braga's name. I said it was no. I ruled out.

I ruled out Kiss of the Spider-Woman. Not out of Africa, not Pritzie's honor. Oh. All of these prestigey things that you're naming to me, and what this movie is titled, I cannot believe that this is multiple Oscar-nominated film. Was this the year of Eric Roberts and John Vos. void in runaway train. Is it runaway train? Yes, it is runaway train. Never have seen this movie ever.

I assume it's about a runaway train. The IMDB plotline is two escaped convicts and a female railway worker find themselves trapped on a train with no brakes and nobody driving. I maybe need to see this movie. Nominated for two acting performances and editing. Was this just something that made a lot of

money and was well made and got this type of... Was this a name director? Like, why, why, why, runaway train. Why? It is, he's a Euro director, Andrea Kancholovsky, who has done some things, but like, I don't know

what are some other things we can mention from him? It's a lot of European films that I'm sure a lot of listeners haven't heard of. He eventually did tango and cash. Stop it. Amazing. More trash action movies led by two

name actors, I guess. Yeah, Oscar nominee Eric Roberts. Okay, so your other title, 2005, I guarantee you, you have forgotten about her in this movie. Forgotten about her in this movie or forgot about this movie?

No, you haven't forgotten about the movie, but you forgot that she was in this movie. And it's a movie. It's not, because this was around the time she was in, like, John from Cincinnati. No. It's a movie. Okay. All right. I've forgotten that she's in this movie,

2005. It is a very big hit. comedy. Oh, in 2005. Is she in wedding crashes? She is in wedding crashes. As I lose my voice saying wedding crashes. Um, she's got to be what. She's Rachel McAdams's mother. Someone's mother? Let me see if that's what her character name is. Like she doesn't have a first name. She's Mrs. Croger's. She's Chad Kroger's mother. Weird. No, that's a joke. She's playing Mrs. Croger, married to Mr. Kroger, who is played by Dwight Yoakum. Sure. Sure. Um, that's wild. When you think about actresses of Rebecca

D'Borne's age range, you think about Jane Seymour being in that age. She's the mother. Because it's, because it's Rachel McAdams and Ila Fisher are sisters, right? Her cousin's sisters, right? And Jane Seymour is their mother. That movie is not a fan of women. It sure isn't. That is a movie that was very popular. I remember watching it at the time and liking it, and it just did not age well whatsoever. Noop. Yeah.

No, does not like women. Sure doesn't. That's a very weird, known for Rebecca DeMorne. I'm just going to say it. Wow. Makes me kind of want to watch runaway train. I think Hand That Rocks the Craydon and Risky Business, absolutely. Like, those are your big two, as far as I'm concerned, for Rebecca.

But I'm trying to think of what other ones I would have put in there. Definitely never talk to strangers if she's going around biting butts. Yeah, definitely the butt-biting movie. I'm looking at her list now. She was in a movie that I always saw at the video store and was always kind of intrigued by the VHS cover, which is her and Mary Gross from SNL and also Troop Beverly Hills fame. It's a movie called Feds, where the post,

poster is Rebecca DeMorne is drawing a gun, sort of pointing a gun at the camera with like a sort of a Mona Lisa smile on her face, right? And then Mary Gross is kind of like lurking over her shoulder with this almost like a Debbie Downer kind of like half shrug on her face, like showing her FBI badge, but it's upside down. And it's just like wacky cops, they're ladies. And I've never seen it. But like every time I would be browsing the like, comedy section at video factory or whatever feds would always jump out at me i wonder if anybody listening has seen the classic rebecca de morne mary gross movie feds please chime in the record rebecca de morne poster that i remember specifically from video stores is the poster

for guilty as sin which is like yeah johnson peeking from behind like a curtain and there's like a city skyline very much murderery that was the same year as um Madonna in Body of Evidence. And I remember, oh my, wait, Sidney Lumet directed Guilty as Sin. I was going to say. What? That's crazy. Because that absolutely, that picture very much suggests, like, um, a trash disclosure era.

Um, I also love, I'm looking at the poster right now, um, movies that in the Siskel and Ebert era only got one thumb up. And so the poster just says, uh, yes, thumbs up. And it's, uh, and this thing, in this case, it was, Ebert. Right. You can't say two thumbs up. You cannot. Right. If it was a two thumbs up movie, that would be like all over the poster.

In this case, it's thumbs up, but it's from Ebert. So it's like, it's from the good, it's from the good half of, uh, of Siskel and Ebert, but still. We got to investigate movies that only got thumbs. That would be a side hustle podcast in and of itself. Would be thumbs up with, uh, with Chris and Joe. Oh my God. We did.

We have to find. a whole other set of time to do just the thumbs up puck. This goes along in my bucket of ideas where I wanted to do a podcast where I watched all of Demi Moore's movies in order which I would call Demi myself and I.

Yes. I still kind of want to do that. Maybe that's our Patreon. If anybody steals a thumbs up podcast idea, I will find you in your home and ask you why you've taken my things. Anyway, I think that's our episode

And that's our mini-series Well, we... Wait, can I take half a time out? Because I made a joke when you had mentioned that the runaway train was from 1985 And I was trying to go through the Oscar movies of 1985 And I casually brushed off the idea That she would have been in the trip to Bountiful

She's absolutely in the trip to Bountiful. She is in the trip to Bountiful. Had no idea until I'm just now looking. She's on the poster. She's on the poster. She's on the Poster. to The Trip to Bountiful. Her and Geraldine Pate. Wild. I'm sorry. Apologies to both Rebecca de Mornay and the estate of Horton Foot. All right. Well, that I think officially brings the Naomi Watts miniseries Naomi to close. We hope you guys had fun this month. We will be back next to May with another fun experiment of some miniseries of some kind.

but that also is our episode if you want more this had Oscar buzz you can check out the Tumblr at this had oscarbuzz.tombleau.com you should also follow our Twitter account at had underscore Oscar underscore buzz. Joe, tell our lovely listeners

where they can find more of you and your stuff. Sure, I am writing out this nightmare of an existence that we're all living through right now on Twitter at Joe Reed. Read is spelled R-E-I-D. I also at some point will return to letterboxed

once I start, you know, watching, you know, new movies again. That is also Joe Reed. read-spelt R-A-I-D. I have been mostly off Twitter

at Chris V-File. I will return, so follow me there. That's F-E-I-L, also on letterbox under the same name.

We would like to thank Kyle Cummings for his fantastic artwork and Dave Gonzalez and Gavin Mievous for their technical guidance.

Please remember to rate and review us on Apple Podcast, Google Play, Stitcher, wherever else you get your podcast. A five-star review

in particular really helps us out with Apple podcast's visibility, so please give a speech to your entire Catholic School about how we deserve sainthood. That's all for this week,

but we hope you'll be back next week for more buzz. Bye. Let's make it all for love. But the one you hope, be the one you want, the one you need. Because when it's all for a one,

for all, When there's someone that you know, then just let your feeling sure and make it all of one of love.