This Had Oscar Buzz - 097 – The Others

Episode Date: June 8, 2020

We are taking the rare This Had Oscar Buzz stroll through the horror genre this week and also discussing the rare case of a performer possibly splitting their own vote. The Academy rules state that one performer cannot be nominated for two performances in the same category, and one case against that rule was Nicole … Continue reading "097 – The Others"

Uh-oh, wrong house. No, the right house. I didn't get that! We want to talk to Marilyn Hacks. I'm from Canada. I'm from Canada water. How do you do, children? I'm your new nanny. Are you going to leave us too?

Why should I leave you? The others said they wouldn't, but they did. And then it happened. Why have you opened the curtains? It was Victor. You told your brother that there was someone else in the room. There was. That'll do, Anne.

I've seen them too. Have. Summer later, she'll see them. Then everything will be different. Now, children, are you sitting comfortably? Then I'll begin. Hello and welcome to the This Had Oscar Buzz podcast, the only podcast that is carrying around a cardboard cutout

of our favorite soap opera characters, twin Julianne Moore's. Every week on This Had Oscar Buzz, we'll be talking about a different movie that once upon a time had Lofty Academy Award aspirations, but for some reason or another, it all went wrong. The Oscar Hopes died, and we are here to perform the autopsy. I'm your host, Chris Fyle. I'm here, as always, with my co-host daughter.

Wait, what have you done with my daughter? Are you mad? I am your daughter. Hello, Joe Reed. Hi. That was my little play. Yeah, the Oscar hopes died, and then we took weird, creepy photos of them, and put them in an album, and then hid them in the room. our podcast is the ghost album

from this movie like no wonder there are so many movies about like creepy English Victorian homes and they're filled with photo albums spooky children yeah just like wow why don't we why don't we just take photos of our dead

and not only just photos of our dead but like prop them up in little chairs with little matching outfits oh my god it's so macab it's so uh yeah it's It's quite a time. Quite a time they used to have in English. We will absolutely get into it.

First off, right up top, we want to encourage all of our listeners to donate to the Emergency Release Fund. This goes to support the bail fund in New York City for trans people and black trans people protesting against the current state of police brutality in America. You can donate to Emergency Release Fund.com. Joe and I both have. I will also provide resources for you to be involved and to contribute in other ways. As well, I will put that on our Tumblr.

This had oscarbuzz.tumbler.com. Black Lives Matter, black translives matter. Once again, that's emergency release fund.com. Joseph. Yes. We're doing the rare horror movie we can talk about this week. I know. I know. And it's funny because I suggested this and then we had sort of agreed upon it.

And then I was like, oh, right, this was one of those that we were sort of like holding in our back pocket for a Halloween episode. And we can, you know, we'll find something else. The calendar never, we did Hannibal in our first year. And if I remember correctly, it was like the episode dropped on Halloween. But like the calendar since I don't think has really aligned that we've really, you know, tried to do it. As I'm now scrolling through, like our last, the closest one we had last year to, Halloween was Cadillac Records. So not, yeah, not entirely thematically.

We're not always... Great episode. We love Jordane Searles. Oh, fantastic. It's just like not a spooky movie. You may hear back soon. Yes, that's right. Man, I'm really good at inadvertently plugging our future episodes. I'm just the person that's always shouting out, go back to our past episodes.

But anyway, that was our last finger quotes around the Halloween calendar. episode. So, yeah, like, obviously anything you talk about with this movie, it's like, you could reduce it down to like Oscar doesn't like horror movies, which isn't as true

historically as you think it is. It's just like they're not nominating scream, you know? Yeah, it has to be the right kind of horror movie, the right reception, the right moment. Like, it's very, it's a lot more situational. You won't ever find the Academy defaulting to a horror movie like they will

for a biopic or, you know what I mean? It's just like, oh, we're looking for something to fill out our roster. Let's, you know, oh, what's, you know, what was a good horror movie? Like, no, they don't do that. The others is an interesting case for this because I think that is true for this movie and there's obviously a lot of other things going on and this is part, parcel with Nicole Kidman's rise, which, like, shockingly, we really haven't talked about it. We went back when we, you know, changed episodes to do this somewhat last minute to be like, when was the last time we talked about Nicole Kidman? And it was a full year ago, unless maybe it was the paper boy?

Was the paper boy before we did 2003? Hold on a second. Maybe you're right about that. Maybe I, uh, maybe I, they say he dragged his intestine five miles. Uh, the paper boy was in January of 2018. So yeah, that was before the human stain. The human stain is our most recent Nicole Kidman movie. That's wild. That is wild. It's crazy. God, the paper boy does not seem like that long ago, but that was

episode 28 and we are nearing episode 100. Like it's... We're almost there, you guys. What a ride. What a ride we've been on. It also is funny because, like, we've just, you know, recently come out of doing our a month-long miniseries on Naomi Watts. And I always feel like Nicole was sort of like spiritually there, sort of in the corner, speaking of the others, like sort of covered by a sheet, like those weird religious statues that she comes across in this movie.

But, you know, Nicole's always sort of like a presence in Naomi's story, which is, you know, not always super fair to Naomi, but there we have it. It's, you know, true. And it's the same year as Mulholland Drive that we are talking about. about now. That's the thing. That's the, you know, for us, you know, their stories are entwined not only because they're both from Australia and they're both friends, but because like their breakout, like 2001 was such a pivotal year for them. Obviously Nicole Kidman was like a thing before 2001, but this is the year that really changed everything in

terms of her career. Obviously, it was also a big year in her personal life. Her divorce from Tom Cruise happens this year. But like her career really levels up in, one of the most significant ways I can remember a career leveling up in my sort of in my lifetime of experience watching this stuff. It's really exciting. It's, you know. It was a, it was truly a moment too. And I tried to find as much as I could in the way back machine because like if you want to look up a lot of Oscar research in this timeline, you got to try to hunt around and like dig through the way back machine to find things. But like obviously this is the same year, the same summer even, as

Mulan Rouge. And especially early in the Oscar season, like it felt like Nicole Kidman was going to happen, but Mulan Rouge was weird. The others is a horror movie, and it felt very in flux and, like, obviously

it was very in flux up until the nomination morning because you have things happening, like Nicole Kidman is nominated for this for BAFTA, but not Mulan Rouge. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yes. Yes, absolutely. We don't remember it to be probably as close between these two performances as it probably very much was.

I wouldn't – we've talked about this best actress year recently in terms of, like, sixth and seventh place. And part of me thinks I wouldn't be surprised if Nicole Kidman for this was that sixth place spot now that I'm – I wouldn't either. It's always – it's always tricky to try and guess how things shake out when it's one performance. former splitting two roles in a category because, like, the, you know, it's tough to, it's tough to anticipate where the numbers would go in that. That's why I'm always so fascinated by what would the numbers have been the year that Kate Winslich gets nominated for the reader at the last minute swerving from supporting TV. But yeah, I absolutely, you're absolutely right. In leading up to this year's Oscar nominations, the talk was either A, Kidman's going to

split her own vote and she's going to get left out. or B, that, you know, Moulin Rouge is the flashier role, but she's going to get nominated for the others for a lot of reasons. Moulin Rouge was a divisive movie. Back then, a lot of people didn't think it ever had a real shot at a Best Picture nomination, and that sort of became sort of more likely as the season went along. But I even still, like, up until that morning, there was no guarantee that Moulin Rouge was going to get a Best Picture nomination.

People thought it was too strange, too out there. And I would wager it was fifth place in the best picture lineup, at least for nominations. Maybe not, you know, in the final tally. That makes a lot of sense, especially because he didn't get a best director nomination. Both he and Todd Field were left out, were best picture nominees that were left out of best director. And then the others, even though it was a horror movie, it's a very, I'm trying to like, it's a lot more typical of an Oscar-nominated performance. It's more serious. It recalls, this movie reminded me a lot of The Innocence,

the Debra Carr movie, The Innocence. And like, obviously, if you're going to have a film and a performance that's reminiscent of Debracar, then, like, that's going to make you think of, you know, Oscar-y-type things as well. And, but I think mostly it was just that people assumed that Oscar voters wouldn't be able to latch on to Mulan Rouge because it was too weird. I think that's mostly, I think that's the thing. And the other thing about the others is it's two years after the sixth sense. And I think a lot of people thought that that success would carry over. Absolutely. I remember specifically with the sixth sense and like these movies came out in the same like window of time that that I think was late July and this is early

August when they were released in the summer. And I remember some of the first conversation and like dialogue about this movie is that they were the same ending, which is stupid and not true. No, it's not true. It's just because it's a twist doesn't mean it's the same thing. Right. And, I mean, this was a hit movie, too. It made more, how much money did this movie make? Like, $90 million? I know it was like 200, over 200 worldwide. I'm not sure what it was domestic, but the worldwide box office was over $200 million. So, yeah, domestic was $96. Yeah, it was a success. It was, again, like the Sixth Sense, it was an August horror hit that was, you know,

maybe a little surprising that it was a hit. But it was from Dimension Films in Miramax, so Dimension obviously knew what to do with horror movies. Obviously, they made such a success of the Scream franchise, and yeah, it's a really good little movie. It's a great movie. I really, really love it. it's, I mean, we'll, you know, get into the whys of that. But yeah, this is a really, it's a really fascinating Oscar discussion. One of my favorites.

I feel like one of the other things, and we can get into this further once we're on the other side of a 60 second plot description that I kind of want to bring up is it feels like the movie built some momentum late in the year, especially with like a European crowd and probably because it um it continued to make money around the world but like it's a huge movie for the goias it gets even a screenplay nomination

with BAFTA that I really wonder and it's like maybe this is true for a horror bias type of thing or you know dimension is not at this time it's not the same thing as Miramax um in terms of like what people take seriously but this I think the craft of this movie is something that should have been considered much more than it was.

Oh, absolutely. We can get into some of the details of it, too, but it also feels like this one is an oversight or maybe got lost to just the Nicole Kidman conversation, and that's maybe why Moulon Rouge is why she gets, the one she gets the nomination for, because people are considering that movie for other things. Yeah, there's so much, there's so many elements of this movie

that I do think are award-worthy. I do wonder if the fact that this is the same year as Gossford Park. Gossford Park sort of took all the stately British manner attention away from this one, even though obviously they're put to very different effects. But yeah. I don't know. I do love this movie. So I'm excited to get into the conversation. So Joseph, should we do the 60-second plot description about 12 minutes into our recording? I think that is a, you know, a speed record for us. Yeah, I'm thoroughly unprepared for this, and I have a feeling I might get, I'm already envisioning the, the bogs of plot that I'm going to get stuck in before I make it through the whole thing, but we'll see. You can phone a friend, your friend Victor.

Yes. We should say before we start that, like, this movie is 20 years old. We're going to talk about the twist. We're going to talk about the ending. If you somehow haven't seen the others, I highly encourage. you to pause this podcast, go watch the others and come back and revisit it after. You won't regret it. It's on HBO Max and HBO Go right now. So like, do it. It's really good. It's a readily available movie. If you're still even late to listening to this episode and it's no longer on HBO, you can find this movie somewhere. Yes. And you can find this movie classic. It's only, it's a tight 104 minutes. It's, you know, it clocks in well under two hours. It's, It's, yeah, wonderful. Yeah.

Anyway, once again, we are here to talk about the others written and directed by Alejandro Amenobar, starring Nicole Kidman, Funula Flanagan, Christopher Eccleston, and the very annoying Aliquina Man, and also annoying James Bentley. So good, though. So good. The kids are good, but, like, we'll have a conversation

about how this movie is about how parenting is hell, and children are hell. But the movie opened August 10th, 2001, competed later that month at the Venice Film Festival. Opened two days after the Tom and Nicole divorce was finalized. Mm-hmm. Wild. Absolutely wild.

But Joseph, the 60-second plot description falls on your shoulders. Okay. All right. Are you ready to give a 60-second plot description of classic film The Others? Ready as I'll ever be. All right, your time starts now. Okay, Nicole Kinman plays Grace. She is a mother of two.

Her husband went off to World War II. This is the end days of World War II. He is missing in action. She still thinks he's going to come home. Their servants disappeared, like all, you know, all left suddenly. And so they need new servants. This trio of servants who had used to be in the house, Mrs. Mills, Mr. Tuttle, and the mute woman Lydia, show up, and they're going to be servants in the house. The children require, they're photosensitive.

So they can't have any natural light at all. So the curtains must be drawn at all. times. The doors have to be locked. One door has to be locked before another one can open. Kidman is very strict about this. You start to wonder if maybe there's a kind of like she's, you know, munchaus in a little bit. But also they start like hearing things and there are maybe their ghosts in the house. And the little girl keeps talking about this boy, Victor, that she keeps seeing. And what's happening. And the husband comes back from the war and, and then leaves again suddenly. And the servants are really creepy. And they find out that the servants are dead.

And ultimately, what we find it in the end is that Nicole and her kids are dead because she smothered And that's time. And killed herself. So yes, they are not haunted by ghosts. They are the ghosts. They are the others. So Victor and his family are living people that have taken over the house after they have all perished. Including the mother of that family who was Catlin Stark from Game of Thrones, which is very interesting.

Interesting. Yeah. And then they had that wonderful scene with that, the creepy old, I love that the creepy old lady, turns out to be the medium that they hire the sort of like the the Zelda Rubinstein equivalent that they hire to come over and um you know into it what's around her and and it's absolutely rude that that actress is not played by either Lynn Cohen or Geraldine Chaplin who basically plays that role in the orphanage or who's the old lady from Dolores Claiborne who I love who was also in Hyde Park on Hudson.

Do you know who I'm talking about? Yes, I do, and that's going to drive me crazy, that I can't get her name. Yeah. Her, though. But yes, that's a wild scene. I love old school depictions of old-timey psychics where they're not doing a Ouija board

and they're not doing a sance, but they're doing the thing where they just like start scribbling on a paper and then ultimately they'll start channeling whatever voices they hear. that it's such a great it's such a great unmasking scene because it's not amenabar also does the score for this movie by the way and the score is really really good it's exceptional it's wonderful it's not a scene when ultimately you find out what's going on and the children end up in this room with the new family and the medium and they end up sort of like you know saying we're not dead we're not dead and

the medium is repeating that all of that happens weirdly gradually there's never this music cue that is just like this is the thing like this is you know twist it's it happens sort of your mind kind of takes it in like piece by piece as it's unfolding which is very cool and very interesting and you had just gotten the shock I think the shock moment comes when the children run out to the lawn and they find the gravestones and it's the gravestones of the three servants and so the children find out that the servants are dead and you think that's the twist like that's the cool thing about the twist in this movie is it's like dual, dual level. And the servants are, you're led to believe that the servants serve some type of, like, nefarious purpose, like, they're, like, suddenly you realize they have been the villains all along, but really what it is, is they are there to facilitate Grace and her children's understanding that they have moved on to the other side.

They've got to ease these, these people into the knowledge that they're dead. But there's, you're right. There's a lot of scenes of Fanola Flanagan and that Mr. Tuttle where they're being like, when should we reveal the truth and when should, you know, she's being too stubborn. We'll have to go through the children first, like this whole kind of thing. And it all feels very nefarious. And there's that scene, that wonderful scene where she and Nicole goes out into the fog and Phenola Flanagan's just like, the fog will get her. And then Mr. Tuttle like covers up the gravestones.

and see what's on the gravestones, but covers up the gravestones with leaves, it's... That scene where he's covering up the leaves is amazing, because it's not something you really think about, because you're focusing on what Grace is up to in that scene, but you see him literally pulling leaves out of a wheelbarrow and putting them on the ground, and what he is doing is covering those headstones, and there's a tree right there, and the shot is slowly pushing in on him. And when you see it now, it's like, what was he supposed

to be doing, taking leaves out of a wheelbarrow? And Grace doesn't even notice, and because of that, we don't notice either. And then as it's pushing in, like, the tree moves out of the shot. And Grace says, she's telling him to find these gravestones, right? The ones that

he is covering up in front of her. And she said, it's supposed to be over a tree, like that tree over there. And she points in the opposite direction of the tree she's standing in. That's just like, this is, this is why you can re-watch this movie. There's a lot of really subtle stuff like that. It's also this stuff where like, they've been living in this house seemingly, at least as long as the children have been alive. Like, they haven't recently moved to this house. And yet there are things about the house, like when

Kidman, you know, goes into that room where all the religious statues are covered in tarps and whatever. It feels like that's the first time she's ever been in that room. It feels like she mentions to Tuttle, she's like, I heard there was a graveyard on the, on the grounds. And it's just like, oh yeah, all that stuff covered in sheets is like somebody else's stuff. Right, right. This mansion's so big, like they don't use all the rooms, but it's still just like filled with someone else's crap. And it's such a dissonance because the other side of that coin is she has so many ironclad rules about the house. Like, You can't open the doors and you can't undo the blinds.

And everything is so regimented that to have things about the house and about the estate that she's like, oh, I heard about. Oh, you know, it's never focused on, but it sort of like plants a little seed in the back of your head. Like, what's that about? What's going on? Why, you know, it almost seems like, I love movies where things initially seem like plot holes where you're just like, that's not right. Why is that? That seems like a flaw. and it's not a flaw. It turns out to be, you know, part of the whole...

Instrumentally placed. But, yes, I don't know about you guys, and I don't know about you, Joe. I would probably know, even if I had a large mansion, that there is a photo album of dead people. That's just the other thing. Yes, she discovers this. Like, where was this? Who packed this away? Not her belongings. Like, oh, yes, this is a family heirloon. Passed down the generations. All of my family. dead you know in a book like it's legitimately creepy too but um that like those photos in that

book wasn't there what was the movie that did something like that and put that out as press materials oh no i'm thinking of the miss peregrine books that like did similar photos oh god the all the stuff in miss peregrin with like just the look of so many of his characters i never saw the movie i hated the books so much. The bastardization of Tim Burton by Tim Burton has been one of the creative tragedies of my lifetime. It's true. What did you think of the whole photosensitivity thing? Did it make you think about Munchausen by proxy as much as it did me? Not when I first saw it because that's not something I was thinking about when I was a teenager, but definitely now. And it's probably

also because, like, there is true crime media, and then we also have a subset that's among cows in true crime media, you know? It's like, it's everywhere. It is. I think this movie, again, bringing back the sixth sense, because that was a subplot in the sixth sense, it made me think of it while I watched this movie. I remember for the first time, I remember thinking that was the twist, that she was making her children believe that they were sick because she had, you know, gone off her rocker after, you know, finding out. Or because she can't stand them. Well, that's the other thing. Kids suck. This is another movie about, you know, the real horror is, um, I think my children

are, you know, little monsters, which again, reminds you of the innocence. The whole thing about the innocence is that, like, the children are creepy as fuck. And, you know, this woman has to be in charge of them. And they're freaking her out. And, of course, now we think of the Babadook because the Babadook came out like a decade after this movie. Mm-hmm. Yep, yep, yep. That was a big, I think that was a big reason why people really loved the Babadook was because, oh, it has a message. It's, you know, it's really about motherhood. The Babadook is really about motherhood was the, uh, Logan's really a Western of its year. Like, it was, um, yeah, but Logan is not a Western. I hate this conversation.

I mostly don't care whether Logan's Western or not. I just mean that it's just like that was the like, you know, it was the magic mic is about the economy of its year. Let's say that. Right, right, right. It was the observation to have. Vela level in The Big Sick talking about X-Files when she says, it's a bad show.

I need that shift in my life. I also need her to retroactively say, it's a bad movie. Is this so you can talk about Logan this way? Yes. All right. I want that for you. Vela Level is so good in that movie. I love her so much.

Anyway, the others is my favorite kind of horror movie. I love Musty Mansion movies. Even if they're not scary, like I will sit down in front of any haunted mansion movie where it's just like, look at this mold, there might be a ghost somewhere. What was that terrible movie I made you see with me at Tiff one year?

Because it was just a house mansion movie. What was that? And it was not good. But, you know, it was very sad. It was with the siblings, right? The siblings were... Yeah, yeah, where we were like, are they fucking?

Yeah. It was like a horror movie. It was possible incest horror movie. There was like a whole movie. the floor in the house. There was like a whole, like, yeah. I did not care for that movie. I can't remember what it was called.

I forget what it was called. Obviously, we had very strong feelings about it. But I just, there's something about this sub-genre of horror movie. And it's very Gothic, too. Yeah. Which, like, Gothic doesn't just mean haunted mansion, but, like. But in this case, boy, howdy, is that a haunted mansion? Indeed, it is.

What comes from the twist of this movie, too, is that you realize what you've been watching the whole time is basically a gothic family tragedy where she is going crazy in this mansion and she kills her kids and herself. And the inference to me is because she finds out that her husband is dead. Because they do ask after she has this monologue, you know, confessing what she did, if their father died in the war and she says yes. Yeah. Right. There's a lot of stuff that she knows to be true that she is keeping sort of locked away in some part of her mind that she doesn't want to access. And that is one of the things. I think it's also very, like, important to note that this movie takes place on the Channel Islands. It's on the island of Jersey. And the Channel Islands were the only part. What's that? Excellent caption where it's like Jersey.

Yes. 1945. Yes. But that the Channel Islands were the only part of, I mean, God, I don't know British shit, but like they're part of the UK, but not governmentally, I don't know, whatever. But they're the only part of the UK that was occupied by the Nazis during World War II. So they occupied the Channel Islands for most of the war. And so there's stuff where Grace talks about how, you know, during the entire occupation,

she never allowed a Nazi into the house and she's very sort of proud of that and now there are people in the house but there's also when Christopher Eccleston does come back as her husband or it turns out the ghost of her husband I love how by the way how bewildered he is

for the entirety of her appearance where he doesn't know how he ended up he sort of like emerges from the fog he doesn't really know how he ended up there he doesn't he seems to know that he doesn't belong there that he can't stay there and that's another thing that Kidman's character, Grace, is very religious

and gives her children very much a lot of religious instruction. And one of the things they linger on is this idea of limbo and whether, you know, what happens to you have to die and the four hells and, you know, what are the different kinds of places? And she tries to sort of keep her children in line by as many, many a religious parent does by telling them that if they misbehave, that they could go to children's limbo

when they die, which is purgatory or hell or whatever. And so there's this idea that there are different afterlives. And I think that comes to play again with the husband, that like his afterlife is not going to be with them for, you know, whatever metaphysical religious reason. But anyway...

He's the only thing that kind of confuses or frustrates me about this movie because he essentially functions as a device. He arrives as Grace is saying she's going to leave the mansion. Right. He keeps her from leaving the grounds, yes. And you hear Mr. Tuttle and Fanula Flanagan say, the fog will keep her.

So it's like when she's walking, like the fog gets denser. So it's like the idea that they are trapped in this house and they can't go anywhere. But he emerges from the fog and comes there and like she immediately goes back to the house and disbands this plan. Yeah. So to me, the only way I can kind of understand it is that he is not the ghost person that he is. he is just like a conjured manifestation to prevent her from that. I didn't quite take it that one, but that's interesting. That is kind of holes to it, right?

Or it's not all that satisfying. The thing about, because I want to go back, you brought up her religion. Another thing that I think makes this kind of an interesting, like, Gothic tragedy is Grace's arc in the movie is also letting go of religion. and the movie is kind of saying in a way that she can find peace when she lets go the idea of religion because also after she delivers that monologue at the end, she basically tells her children, I don't know that any of this is true.

Right. She says, I have no more knowledge of it than you do, which is a real, it's a real movement for her because the whole movie she's trying to, you know, instruct from on high her children. And she has now admitted that she has, you know, she's as in the dark about this as they are. And I just think that's really interesting for a horror movie to do.

It also, this was the other thing I was getting to with the Channel Islands, before I, as I often do, take several tangents away from the topic. I am rolling a map out of the ceiling. This is your history lesson for today. Geography. Following the gingerbread crumbs back from where I started. But no, I thought there were definite isolationist allusions to this when she's talking to her husband about why did you have to go to the war?

Your place was at the home. You had no business being in the war. Obviously, there's a lot of isolationist history with England. They didn't want to enter the war, yada, yada. And so this does also seem to have themes of, you know, obviously Grace and her kids are so isolated from the world that they literally cannot allow. She literally doesn't allow the light into the house when the children are around. She's trying to, you know, keep them so. isolated and so closed off and obviously there's you know several historical kind of you know

connections to that and and i like that that was a theme without a ever becoming too explicit beyond you know her that one conversation she has with her husband but also that it just sort of just like lets it be as a theme and doesn't become like a lesson it's all so good okay let's talk about there's so many levels to it yes in this movie okay i think i think think if you're just talking that monologue, like, that's, that monologue, I think is one of the best things she's ever done. It's incredible. The one at the end, yes. I, like, I don't know how you, like, make emotional sense of that. And it's, you know, she just, like, tells the full story of grace that, like, we haven't seen throughout the movie. However, when you rewatch it,

her performance is filled with so many interesting things. There's a moment where she grabs a shotgun and she like looks at it weird like like you can see her getting this like sense of deja vu and then thinking to herself that's weird I don't know what that was and you don't really give it a moment's pause at the first time you watch it but then when you rewatch it it's like you see things like that peppered throughout the movie you talked about the scene where like the secret comes out and there's not like a jolt of music or anything but it does cut to her and, like, the look of horror on her face is not, like, realizing that that is true and remembering that she did it, but it's more like watching somebody's most shameful secret be aired out into a room full of people. Right.

She's so good in this movie. Well, and that sort of recurs when the scene, the very famous scene, when she walks into the room and it's the creepy old lady under the veil and, you know, I am your daughter, that whole kind of thing. thing. But then she starts sort of throttling this old woman saying, you're not my daughter, you're not my daughter. And it turns out, you know, all of a sudden she throws her across the room, and it is, it's Anne. And the look of sort of horror on her face that like, oh, and you can tell there's a little bit of recognition there. Like, oh, have I, you know, A, have I traumatized this little girl, but B, just like, when, you know, the girl's like, you're mad, you're mad. like there's obviously that hits her harder than what just a normal like kid like yelling things at her mom right like the idea that she could be going mad keeps sort of intruding into her uh her consciousness also it's such a great she's styled so well there's so the costume this movie in this movie are fantastic everything she wears is so incredibly repressive you know what i mean these just sort of just like um like she's

She can't inhale properly. Yeah, yes, exactly, exactly. And there's so many, the cinematography in this movie is fantastic. The cinematographer, I'm going to get, pronounced this wrong, it's Javier Aguirisarob, like I, fantastic, fantastic cinematography. There are so many scenes of, you'll see, like, Grace looking out the window and her face is reflected in the window, and it looks so ghostly. so incredibly um oh there was another uh scene that i thought was like that where um oh yeah or just

like when before the scene where it looks like the little girl's the old woman where grace sort of outfits her in this outfit with a veil and the girl under the veil looks like she's like halfway disappearing under like behind that veil it's just so incredibly well shot and so I don't know and pulling off the illusion that there's no light in the space. Right. There's so many scenes that are only lit by candlelight, and they all look perfect. There's never, it's never that kind of murky darkness.

You know, where a lot of movies just make it as murky as possible so that, like, you'll go crazy, trying to figure out what's in the scene. And, like, sometimes that can be used very effectively. Obviously, Hereditary is, like, the great example of that, of just sort of, like, peering into the darkness. And, you know, do I, am I really seeing what I think I'm seeing? but like in the others the only times when you're like it's it's it's used very sparingly but very effectively when you're asked to sort of like look into a corner do i see victor do i see that little boy in the corner that that uh anne says that scene where she's trying to convince the little brother that victor's in the room with them and he's just like no no no no i don't want to

know is so incredibly effective and creepy because it does seem plausible that anne is doing this as a voice to scare her brother because she also seems like kind of a little shit but like... She sucks! I love her, but like, I hear you. I'm sad that that actress

never got to do anything after this because I thought she was so good. Oh yeah, like their performances are good but they're playing little shitheads. Little monsters. Little little monsters, little British monsters. And also, did you read, I was reading about in sort of the trivia

about this movie that like, they really kept those kids out of sunlight during that shoot so that they could be as pale as possible, which, like, I think is so funny because it's just like you're treating these children like veal cattle just because you need them to be as pale as possible for these scenes, and it's just like, it's goddamn effective because they are absolutely ghostly white in this movie. Opaic. Yeah. It's, uh, also, Phanola Flanagan is so incredibly good in this movie to the point where

I almost want to go back and stump for her as a supporting actress candidate because she's the performance that most changes when you watch it the first time versus subsequent times

because she's so you think she's so creepy the first time you watch this movie you think she's so threatening she obviously like anytime like a character shows up on your doorstep unexpectedly you're always going to have suspicion of it

but she has this sort of like authority when she talks about she obviously you know they've known this house before, and she's, you know, giving this advice to grace that always seems very judgy. But, like, you watch it the second time, and, like, her act, knowing her actual intentions, it gives this really, really cool depth to how she plays all of these scenes. Mm-hmm. And just, like, yeah, there's a warmth to what she's doing. The thing is, you say you want to stump for her as a supporting actress candidate, and it's like, there wasn't really a

campaign for her in any way. No. But the thing that I always wish, we had access to or could find. We talk about Old School Entertainment Weekly a lot on this podcast, but whenever they would do their predictions and for each category lists like 20 or 30 names out there, I know they listed Fanula Flanagan on that year. Well, she deserved to do that. She deserved it.

She's really good. I'm surprised they couldn't scrounge up like a BAFTA nomination for her because sometimes the BAFTAs will go and, you know, find anybody. But this is the thing. The Oscar nominations in that category that year were plenty British already, because you had Maggie Smith and Helen Mirren from Gosford Park. You had Kate Winslet from Iris. So, and then if I'm looking at the BAFTA nominees, they nominated those three, obviously Jennifer Connolly for A Beautiful Mind, who's the Oscar winner who won the BAFTA. And then the fifth nominee at the BAFTA's for supporting actress that year, Judy Dench for the

shipping news. So, who was also nominated, I want to say, for SAG, right? Maybe Critics' choice, but yes, definitely SAG. Judy Dench could have very easily been like sixth place supporting actress that year. Cannot wait until we talk about the shipping news.

We have been threatening our listeners with talking about the shipping news since our existence. Yep, she was nominated for the SAG. That was the year that the SAG nominees and supporting actress, the only crossover with the Oscars, was Helen Mirren for Gosford Park because Jennifer Connolly went lead for a beautiful mind. Helen Mirren then wins for Gosford Park and like no to May, no Winslet, no Maggie Smith,

which is like so surprising. So your other four nominees at SAG that year for supporting actress were Cape Blanchett and Bandits, who I think was a Globe nominee. In lead. Right, in lead. Judy Dench in the shipping news. Cameron Diaz and Vinalis Sky, who was also a Globe nominee. nominee. And Dakota Fanning for I Am Sam, which was a performance that was kind of on the outskirts of that category. This was the movie that everybody that was just like, look at this little girl. She seems like a grownup. It's real weird. Because that was her whole thing. That was the whole thing in the movie is, oh, the little girl is the grownup and her father is, you know, the childlike one. And that was the whole sort of like conceit of I Am Sam. And so the whole

Leading to the S&L bit of Amy Poehler playing the Dakota Fanning Show where she's like talking about Chikovsky or something. The best, the best ideas in that sketch were she would have other child stars on and they would behave like children and she would have no patience for them. It's so great, yes. How old were you when you first got your nomination? Me? Well, you certainly would have thought that I'd been nominated several times. I mean, after all, I portrayed the daughter of a mentally challenged individual, and I am Sam, and then the victim of a brutal kidnapping in Man on Fire. I did a funny dance.

Yes, that must have been very challenging. A friend of mine once told me, it's not about the awards, it's about honing your craft. And that friend was Mr. Bob De Niro. Is that the guy from Meet the Falkers? No, he's the guy from Mean Streets. You're grumpy. Sorry, I'm a little out of sorts.

I didn't have my post-Polades nap. Here, Dakota, have some juice. That's much better. Thank you, Catherine. Okay, you can just call me mom. So, Abigail, what features are you working on now? I play a doll that comes to life, and I'm about to do another movie with a talking hamster. I get raped in my next movie.

Anyway, we'll take a break. When we'll return, we'll discuss upcoming negotiations in this Green Actors Guild. Reggie, try to keep up. Hey, hey, what? Shut the hell up. Let me right back. Kiss. Oh, boy.

Yeah, what a weird year. 2001 movie awards were a time and a half kind of all over the place because not unpredictable because it was like a beautiful mind was always going to happen and probably Russell Crow and Jennifer Connolly

were always going to happen throughout the race but like the kind of example that you gave just for SAG supporting actress like never is our major acting categories in such flux including obviously best actress where we're talking about this where it's like this hand-wringing of which one will Nicole Kidman get nominated for,

which you would think on paper, it would be, well, obviously, Moulin Rouge. But, like, the way that it shook out, like, Bafta... That's very... You have to really, like, you look backwards and it makes sense, but, like, at the time, Mulan Rouge was not, you know, as I mentioned before, not a sure thing anyway, so it was all in flux. Yeah. Bafta was on to something, though, because at least they gave this movie a scream. play nomination too and like this is an iron glad screenplay yeah in my opinion it's we've pointed out all

of the reasons though it's like original screenplay was kind of all over the place this year like maybe i'm just thinking that because monsters ball getting that screenplay nomination yeah the oscar lineup gossford park wins monsters ball amalie memento and the royal tenon bombs well so this sort of, this enters into a thing I did want to talk about, about the movies of 2001. I think when we talk about, like, the great movie years, we talk a lot about 1999, we talk a lot about 2007 as being these, like, you know, fantastic, deep years for great movies. I think the two most underrated movie years of sort of my adult lifetime are 2004 and 2001. I think 2001 is really underrated for and I think part of that may be that you know a beautiful mind does win best picture so it sort of you know tricks the mind a little bit but like all those other best picture nominees are fucking fantastic fellowship of the ring in the bedroom moulon rouge gosford park and then like you really you go into the deep bench of 2001 memento you mentioned a screenplay nominee royal tannembaum's a screenplay nominee mahalen drives a director nominee but then you go like off the oscar

map entirely, and you get stuff like Donnie Darko, Waking Life. Headwig and the Angry Inch. Hedwig in the Angry Inch. Guillermo del Toro's Devil's Backbone. The Cohen's movie that year was really good. The man who wasn't there, but really, like, weird and odd. Kissing

Jessica Stein is 2001. Artificial intelligence. AI is, like, that year. And that movie was, like, the Spielberg movie that was too weird for people. So, like, that's very cool. Even stuff like a Knight's Tale, which Like, is very sort of, like, populist popcorny stuff, but, like, is doing some weird fucking shit.

Like, that's, you know, session nine is that year. It's a really, really interesting year for movies. And so I think when you talk about original screenplay, that's the category that that's going to get most reflected, like, has the best chance of getting reflected in at the Oscars. And I think that's why it was such a, you know, a tough one to crack. Yeah. and the others fully fits in with all those other movies which is sort of just like all this like cool genre shit is happening at the at the edges of this movie year

I'm going through some of these craft categories too and it's just like I understand why they're nominating Amelie and Harry Potter and Fellowship of the Ring so much in Gosford Park as well but it's just like it's a lot of the same movies mentioned over and over in 2001 so like I think the other thing about the 2001 Oscar year that, like, you don't consider it that much is because there isn't that much variety in there that would make something like the others really, like, stand out and be appreciated more. Yeah.

Lord of the Rings gets 13 nominations. A Beautiful Minded Mulan Rouge ate apiece, Goss for Park 7. And all of those movies are designed forward. Like, even a beautiful mind. It's, you know, it's period setting and, you know, but there is shot by Roger Deacons. It's very possibly. It didn't get a nomination. Deacons was nominated for the man who wasn't there, which was this like immaculate black and white cinematography.

It just looked so, so, so good. A beautiful mind. Let me see. Cinematography. Roger Deacons. Gotcha. Very good. Yeah.

So like, yeah, all those best picture. nominees were, with, I guess, the exception of in the bedroom, which is your standard sort of screenplay and acting Best Picture Nominee. That movie still doesn't get the consideration that it deserves. No, it's fantastic. I mean, like, it's an intimate drama that's 20 years old, so, like, you can see why it's not top of mind for a lot of conversations. But it's so good.

I think it's a, that and Mulan Rouge are among the best, best picture nominees of the past 20 years. Yeah. And those, yeah, those are the ones that didn't get the director nominations. But again, it's tough, too. I mean, whatever, like, I'm not a giant Black Hawkdown fan, so, like, I don't, you know, I'm not going to flip my top over Ridley Scott getting nominated for Best Director. But, like, Lynch for Mulholland Drive, we've talked about this before. The lone, when your only nomination is Best Director, I fucking love that.

And he's done it twice. And he's done it twice. Yep. Only David Lynch. Rules. Also, the other thing we didn't talk about with the others is, um, Tom Cruise is a producer on this movie. Like, the production history of this movie is fascinating.

Tom Cruise sees Alejandro Amanabar's Abre Los Ojos, options it to be remade in English. It becomes Vanilla Sky. He ends up, you know, keeping Penelope Cruz, and obviously they end up having a relationship. That's his

sort of, like, rebound relationship from Nicole, which also happens in 2001. But in between optioning Abre Lo Sohos and making Vanilla Sky, he also reads the screenplay for the others and decides he wants to produce this movie, him and Paula Wagner, are producers on this movie, and then they cast Nicole, and then as all, like, as the movie is being filmed and post-production and all this sort of stuff, the crew's Kidman marriage is disintegrating for whatever reasons that, you know, are, have been like frequently speculated. I think in one of the Scientology documentaries, when somebody mentioned how, like, they were put on the task of, like, surveilling Nicole Kidman, and she was named a, I think Leah Remini at one point mentioned that one of Tom and Nicole's adopted kids, like, was just like, oh, my mom's an SP, like, all this sort of stuff. It's just like, you know, you get the sense that, and Nicole's never talked about this, but that, like, science.

Scientology was a major impediment in their marriage and was a big cause of that ending. The two kids now, Isabella and Connor, are Scientologists. They sort of stayed allied with their father throughout the divorce. Nicole doesn't always talk about them. It's not that she never talks about them because that's untrue, but like certain things will happen. Like she'll, you know, win an award and mention her children and she'll only mention her kids with Keith Urban. and it's a real wild thing that at some point I mean it's probably none of my business

but I would love like a tell-all like you know down to the brass tacks of like what happened there and it ends with those triumphant photos that are everywhere of her like basking in the sun walking away and a floral top with like you can't even think of those pictures I'm doing the arms that she has in the photo right now no one has ever looked more

more joyful. I can see it. It also just looks like she, like, finished running a marathon too. Just like, it's that kind of time. I mean, maybe she did. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and that's the other thing is just like, you know, add to that the rumors that like, was Tom gay, like was, you know, what's

you know, everything, everything, all the elements of that. Totally fascinating. And after they, like, spent a year filming at Stanley Kubrick movie together. Yeah. Which like very well may have like broken them down. you know, and been a proximate cause of something. And I don't know if he talks about that movie that much,

but, like, she has nothing but, like, gushing things to say about that experience. I've never read her saying anything vaguely untoward about that movie or working with Stanley Kubrick. Right. Well, that's, like, so, like, Eyes White Shots a good excuse for me to sort of, like, delve into the Kidman filmography for a second because it really is fascinating. We talked a little bit during the Naomi mini-series about Nicole in, Aussie movies. She's in the

boarding school movie flirting. That's the boarding school movie, right? Mm-hmm. Yes. Sort of like, that's the one with Tandy Newton and Noah Taylor. Noted heartthrob Noah Taylor. Noted heartthrob Noah Taylor. Before that... Lady Killer. Yeah. That was the weird thing I mentioned. That before that is Deadcom where she plays like wife to Sam Neal

and then like two years later she's playing like a boarding school. student anyway crosses over into the united states gets an early golden globe nomination for um the robert benton movie billy bathgate in 1991 notorious bomb right notorious bomb but like she gets good enough reviews to get a golden globe nomination so clearly like they're there someone's positioning her to be a star right far and away happens in 1992 we've talked about far and away she moves she you know puts a little ceramic bowl over tom cruz's uh peeing and then peaks under it, and it's a whole thing. Did that get, like, a cinematography or a score nomination?

We should absolutely do far and away at some point. I think we can. I don't think it did get anything. You can maybe look that up. That would be a blast. Malice in 1993, which is, like, really, like, fascinating. Aaron Sork-inscripted, Alec Baldwin plays the sort of God Complex Surgeon. and obviously that great scene where she, you know...

I have an MD from Harvard. I am board certified in cardiothoracic medicine and trauma surgery. I have been awarded citations from seven different medical boards in New England, and I am never, ever sick at sea. So I ask you, when someone goes into that chapel and they fall on their knees and they pray to God that their wife doesn't miscarry or that their daughter doesn't bleed to death or that their mother doesn't suffer

acute neural trauma from post-operative shock who do you think they're praying too now you go ahead and read your Bible Dennis and you go to your church and with any luck you might win the annual raffle

but if you're looking for God he was in operating room number two on November 17th and he doesn't like to be second guest You ask me if I have a God complex? Let me tell you something. I am God. Do you say I have a God complex?

I am God, that whole thing. Then 1995 is her first big sort of like turning point year where she's in Batman Forever as Dr. Chase Meridian, the breathiest person who ever spoke a word, and is like a giant box office hit. Like I cannot describe. how all-pervasive the marketing for Batman Forever was, especially as a teenager at the time,

that movie was inescapable. That was the... Inescapable. It was like... Box office records are so intangible, like, these days, because it's like if you don't make $200 million in opening weekend, no one cares. Right, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

But, like, it was like the record breaker and, like, state like people didn't stop seeing that movie um yeah batman forever kind of rules she is drag excellence in that movie she's wild uh like horny psychologist um very horny very horny for bats like it's a whole fucking thing and chase meridian is like fully an iconic name yes her name sounds like a credit card we should rename the prime meridian the chase meridian just because Chase Meridian. I read your work. Insightful.

Naive, but insightful. I'm flattered. Not every girl makes a superhero's night table. Can we reason with him he's holding innocent people up there? They won't do any good. He'll slaughter them without thinking twice. Agreed. A trauma powerful enough to create an alternate personality leaves the victim.

In a world where normal rules of right and wrong no longer apply. Exactly. Like you. Well, let's just say I could write a hell of a paper. grown a grown man who dresses like a flying rodent bats aren't rodents dr meridian really i didn't know that you are interesting and call me chase yeah truly fantastic and like is it great acting i don't know but it's just like it's it's it's movie star and is personified and then so then later on ninety five she does the gus van sant movie to die for which is the first big

I didn't think Nicole Kidman could do that because there was definitely, she meets Tom Cruise on Days of Thunder in 1990, they get together, they get married. And there was a definite sense from that point on of Nicole Kidman is pretty and maybe not a great actress. Like I remember that being like a definite thing, that she was Tom Cruise's wife, that she was getting these roles because she was Tom Cruise's wife. and, you know, and maybe she's not a very good actress. And then to die for changes everything. She slays that role. Changes everything. And changes, like, her as a performer and what she looks for in material, because she

has always said that she, it's not necessarily about the role, it's about the director that she goes for. And Gus Van Sant, it's one of the first, like, autours that she works with. And, like, ever since then, you can look at her career and see. maybe not around this peak Oscar time because she does things like the Stepford Wives and Bewitched where she's, you know, it's more about the product than the director

some of it when she's trying to do these, like, studio movies. But like Gus Van Sance, like the first one. But even those movies like Stepford Wives and Bewitched were like interspersed with birth and fur, you know what I mean? Just like she's still doing like, you know, wild and crazy shit. Has she and Joaquin ever done a movie together after To Die For? I don't think so. I think I remember

like an interview where she mentioned it in this past Oscar season because he was winning for Joker and such and mentioning like was it him or mentioned her something about them working together and it's like oh yeah he worked with him when he was like

18 years old. They really should work together again like he's you know notably not my favorite but like even still I think that would be a fantastic repairing. She wins nominated for Golden Globe for a musical comedy wins that year. She wins, yeah. And is against this category, this category fully rules. You can see why she won. Rattle it off. Because it has like the, like, it's maybe a movie that was

taken a little bit more seriously and probably was more in the Oscar race than some of these others. Annette Benning for the American president. Fantastic. Sandra Bullock while you were sleeping. My favorite Sandra Bullock performance. She should have been Oscar nominated for it. Tony Collette and Muriel's wedding. Incredible. Vanessa Redgrave and something, of course, titled A Month by the Lake. Don't know what that is. You can fully imagine Vanessa Redgrave being in several movies called A Month by the Lake. A Month by the Lake.

Wait, who directed that movie? Do you have any idea? Someone named John Irvin. It also stars Uma Thurman. Amazing. The poster that is on IMDB, it is Uma and Vanessa Redgrave's floating heads above I'm guessing a lake where these people are having wine at the lake.

Amazing. 1995 is famously, we've talked about this before, for sure, a fantastic best actress year at the Oscars. That's Sarandon for Dead Man Walking, Elizabeth Shoe for leaving Las Vegas, Sharon Stone Casino, she won the Golden Globe, Streep in Bridges of Madison County,

and Emma Tom. in sense and sensibility. Like, cracking that top five was going to be tough. And there were some phenomenal runners-up. You mentioned Sandra Bullock. You mentioned Annette Benning. Obviously, Nicole Kidman was maybe, like, trying to guess who finished sixth that year is really interesting.

But I think Kidman is as good as candidates. She really, really came close to getting an Oscar nomination. And I think from that point, her, um, her it begins with to die for with her being taken more seriously and an Oscar narrative yes follows that up with um jane campions the portrait of a lady she doesn't get nominated but barbara hers she does so it's like it's inching kind of closer right um then 1997 98 it's it's too big um commercial movie is the peacemaker which makes a ton of money and practical magic which doesn't but it should have because it's fucking great. Her and Sandra Bullock, speaking of co-stars who Nicole Kinman should work with, again,

that would be fantastic. And then Eyes Wide Shut in 99, which I remember being absolutely stone cold certain that that was going to get her her first best actress nomination. And that is not a particularly hotly contested Oscar year because Merrill got nominated for Music of the Heart. I love Merrill. I really, I love her in Music of the Heart. But that's, That's a slot that could have been, you know, taken up. And it's weird that Kidman never really did get anything for that movie. If you men only knew. It took a long time for that movie to kind of settle in with a critical assessment.

Because, like, they released that movie in the middle of the summer. Yep. There was so much press about it. There were so much, like, hanging over it. There was so much, like, for what the sex would be in. that movie and like it was sold to a mass audience that was maybe

unprepared for what that movie actually is. As somebody who was part of that mass audience at that moment, yes, that's true. I was not, I was not ready for that. I still don't, it's still not one of my favorite movies, but like I can certainly appreciate it a lot more now than I could then.

She's incredible. She's incredible. She's absolutely incredible. She absolutely deserved a nomination. One of her best performances. It's maybe a supporting performance. I don't know, because she spends so much time not in the movie. Yeah. It's also a famously arduous shoot, a famously long shoot. Like, the fact that she doesn't make anything for about two years makes sense.

You know what I mean? With, you know, her personal life. She was probably essentially on call the whole time that the movie was shooting. And Kubrick, like... Again, she's not in much. Kubrick had, you know, reportedly played a lot of, like, psychological sort of like mind games with her and Cruz. Like there's

a lot of, it just didn't sound like it wouldn't wouldn't, wouldn't have been a fun time to be Nicole Kidman maybe, even as she's like reaching these sort of like creative heights, right? So the divorce from Tom happens and then 2001 is just

so incredible. It's not only that she's giving these two performances that are fantastic even though they are. And, but it's also that they come in such different genres requiring such opposite ends of her, the spectrum of her skill level, where Moulin Rouge is such a movie star thing. It's such a, you know, it's a heightened reality. She can do that. She's incredibly comfortable in that. And then the others is like the

total opposite end of it. A chamber piece. It's like a character performance almost. Of the two of them, which one would you have nominated? I mean, if who, what performance has the better, like, Oscar clip? I think it's the others, but what would I nominate? I would probably still nominate Moulin Rouge because, like, the degree of difficulty and, like, the number of things she's tasked to do, I think is higher. Yeah. Than this.

But, like, anyone who chooses the others is not over Moulon Rouge is not incorrect. Right. I would say. I think, every time I try and, like, advance an opinion on that where I'm just like, well, she's technically more impressive in the others. And it's like, I don't know if that's, if that is true. She's so impressive in Mulan Rouge. It's just so different. And even in a year with so many incredible lead, uh, performances by actresses, it's maybe the best case in my lifetime that the rule of you shouldn't, you can't

nominate two performances by the same. Right. performer is a stupid rule. I can't think of another one that I would feel that strongly about it. And because there is so little overlap in the performances, I think that would be

totally true. I think there are and I think all things being considered the fact that of the two of them, the sort of cheekier performance got nominated, I'm kind of happy about. You know, the fact that for once the more serious thing fell by the way

side and the fun one. You know, Moulin Rouge is definitely of the two of them, the fun one. But, yeah, I mean, sure, but you could also turn that around and say that people don't take the others seriously. Agreed. I absolutely would agree. So, like, is it the serious thing?

I mean, I think kind of campaigning Moulin Rouge, like, craft first, like, they tried to diminish how, like, bananas that movie is. because even that best picture nomination was definitely not guaranteed a lot of people still hate that movie I don't know

I do see why it's not like I'd begrudge people who can't fuck with Moulin Rouge just because it's like it's a very particular thing it's really it's a real singular object. Even people who like Romeo plus Juliet that don't like Moulon Rouge it's very much like

I'll do some Coke but I am not doing meth like that's that's what it is right like um Mulan Rouge is Popper's personified let's let's say that sure sure sure sure it's just like it's a constant re-upping of poppers it's just sort of just like we're just

going to keep this going through the entire thing and it's a conveyor belt underneath your nose truly truly it's amazing this one has lavender um oh boy Kylie Minogue

um oh I want to go back to the Baptist for a second because it is notable that the BAF does nominate Kidman for the others and not Moulin Rouge. And you might think, oh, maybe they just weren't into Moulin Rouge. But no, they're the ones who nominate Baz Luhrman for director in addition to Best Picture. They also nominate correctly and have him win Jim Broadbent for Moulon Rouge and not for Iris. That should be what is Oscars for. He's very good in Iris.

They nominated him actually as a lead in Iris, which actually is also correct. It's true. He should be a lead in that movie. He doesn't win the BAFTA for lead, but he does win the BAFTA for supporting from Mulan Rouge, which is one million percent the right call. He, that should be, you're right, that should be his asking. I will say, I don't think that my opinion of, like, what I expressed of what I would nominate and, like, what I would think about other people's choices for it.

I don't think that's a unique opinion or wasn't at the time to, and that I would nominate her for this, but anybody who would nominate her for the different performance isn't wrong. And I think that really contributed to the idea of, oh, what if she doesn't get nominated for anything? Right. Because she wasn't SAG nominated, correct? Right. No, she was not SAG nominated at all, which part of that, I think, was that Jennifer Connolly does move from supporting into lead for the SAGs. And that was definitely a performance that awards voters loved that year. So, yeah, Kidman's the one that gets squeezed out. And I think that was, you're right.

Then the alarm bells went up and was just like, oh, she's going to split her vote. This isn't going to happen at all. And I honestly don't think that she was very close to winning for Moulon Rouge. No. No, because it was Hallibirian-Sissy-Spec, like, neck-and-neck. Yeah. Maybe. I feel like, so you think Judy Dench got more votes?

votes for Iris than Nicole did. I think maybe, I feel like Nicole Kidman was probably neck and neck with Renee Zelliger. We just talked last week about Nurse Betty and like, I don't know if that Bridget Jones nomination doesn't happen without some momentum already.

And it is like, it's true that like Renee Zellwiger lost to Nicole Kidman for the musical comedy globe. Right. But like people had a year to sit with that performance and praise it, I just don't think, I don't think either of them were close to second. I will put it that way. Right. My feeling at the time, and I still kind of do feel this way, is that the Renee nomination for Bridget Jones was definitely one of those, the nomination is your reward kinds of things. So I do feel like she was probably fifth. Again, this is all rampant

speculation and my favorite kind. But I think I did, I started to spin out one of those, like what if scenarios, where if what if Kidman did win, what if like the, you know, the media campaign and the sort of zeitgeist of the moment was so in Nicole's favor that for some reason she won for Moulin Rouge. And I think that's my scenario where shit. Oh, where Hallie Berry ends up winning her Oscar for Frankie and Alice. So it's a real time. And then Beyonce gets nominated for Dreamgirls. That's the other thing. that happens. So, um, it's a whole thing. I think I wrote about it for Vulture. I'm pretty sure. Sometimes I can't remember whether, um, it was a thing that I thought of was part of a thing

that I wrote for Vulture or whether it's just like a fever game. I thought you wrote multiple of those things. I wrote too. I wrote if Sandra Bullock didn't win. Right. Right? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. If, uh, if, uh, Merrill beat Sandra Bullock for the Oscar in 2009. Yep. Yep. Uh, very fun, very fun little game to play. The other thing about the SAG Awards that I was to mention earlier is for as wild and woolly as those nominations are and those nominations again include Judy Dench for the shipping news

Kevin Klein and Hayden Christensen for Life as a House. Oh boy. We got to talk life as a house at some point. We do. We really do. Can I tell you, oh my God. All right. We're not going to get into it now, but I'm just going to say I was significantly horny for Hayden Christensen during this point

in his career. That movie plays a lot of peek-a-boo I think with both of their like bodies right like Kevin Klein is basically naked in that movie Hayden Christensen is I believe basically naked in that movie Hayden Christensen has blue hair and is in the shower in that movie and I at all of I want to say it was probably 20 was just like closeted 22 closeted in like a young 20 but was just very much less like boy yo yo yo yo yo about that it's not a thing I would continue to be proud of but anyway um for all of of that wildness, the five ensemble nominees

that year were the five best picture nominees. Gosford Park Beautiful Mind in the bedroom, Lord of the Rings, Mulan Rouge. Gosford Park wins the sag because its cast is fucking enormous. Half of the industry. Yes. And it's a very well-deserved win.

That's a fantastic ensemble cast. Everybody is doing tip-top work, even Ryan Philippi. Especially people who like can't get nominated like Kristen Scott Thomas. Kristen Scott Thomas. Tom. Tom Hollander. Like, I'm looking at, like, everybody who got on that. Like, this was Richard B. Grant.

Charles Dance, Ellen Bates, Stephen Fry, Jeremy Northam. Like, it's a really, really fantastic hats. Remember how good Emily Watson was in Gosford Park, and she couldn't get arrested in supporting actress because she's, like, behind two of her other co-stars. Ditto Eileen Atkins. Shade Queen, Eileen Atkins. Yes.

I love it. Yeah, what a year. 2001's a really, really interesting year. I really, I will stump for it. Back to the others, maybe. What else about the others have we not discussed? Talked about Tom Cruise. Talked about the children.

One thing I will bring up, because you brought up the Nicole Kidman trajectory. Do you remember when she was on Broadway in the Blue Room? I do. I didn't see it. Obviously, I wasn't in New York at the time. But I do remember hearing about it. It was like a whole thing.

I looked it up because like that was like this whole publicity blitzkrieg. part of, you know, the trajectory of Nicole Kidman being taken seriously as an actress. I looked it up. It ran for like two months. It was an incredibly limited run. But like they made a big deal out of it because she was topless on stage. And like that, she didn't, she didn't get any kind of like Tony attention for that, right? No, because it opened early in the season. Right. But I do think she got good reviews for it. Even though like the show was treated more of like, look at this like not spectacle but like no but it's a curiosity yeah yeah yeah yeah it I always

conflate that with um Julia Roberts in three days of rain which also was one that she didn't get a Tony nomination for even though a lot of people thought her startup would carry through and she didn't get good reviews either right right right yeah I remember when Julia Roberts did three days of rain and like the knives out were the knives were out for everyone in like reviews for her. Like, I remember seeing, like, message boards where, like, people were tearing her apart because she, like, dropped a prop, and this is why she's not professional or something. Yeah, people really, really were out to get her for that. That's absolutely true. Yeah. I'm going through my little notes here. Just little things about that movie. The thing where Phenola Flanagan

talks about the Lydia, the mute woman, she's, you know, she's older than she looks and, like, those little lines that play very differently later. Again, love a movie. movie with ironclad rules like this about, you know, the doors and the curtains. And you know, you knew that something was going to be up with the doors. You knew that something was going to be like up. And it's a little bit of a misdirect. Again, first time watching this, I remember being very, very certain that the big twist was going to be that like the kids weren't photosensitive at all. And you do get that moment where they wake up and the curtains are gone and the kids are screaming, but they're fine. Like they're not hurt. Yeah, you expect their flesh to be black

burning or something. And then so you do, I remember thinking at the time. time like, aha, she's lying to them. And it's not that. The kids were photosensitive in life. They're just not anymore because they're dead. The thing about mansion movies, I don't know the thing about mansion movies. I'm just thinking about it again because, like, you mentioned these scenes and I'm just like thinking of all these rooms. Like, you just want to, like, this is a haunted house that I want to live in and I want to encounter a ghost. I, like, other, like, spooky. scary type of movies. I don't know where I'm going with this.

I just want to meet an old-timey ghost in Victorian clothing. Yeah, I hear you. I made you watch The Little Stranger recently and I never followed up. Did you like that movie? Listeners, you should watch The Little Stranger. It's not really a horror movie. It's more of like a gothic character study, but it's another one of these like Musty Mansion movies that I'm talking about.

Tom O'Leason is great in it. It's sort of the anti-twist movie and that like, Like, what you think is happening is what's happening. Like, it's not, it doesn't really, like, do a whole lot to hide what's at play in the movie. And it's just what it ends up being that way. Dom Gleason's really good. Ruth Wilson's really good. There's some really creepy scenes.

What's his name? That boy who's so weirdly popular in England. Will Polter is, is really good. And the makeup on him, he's a burn victim is, like, very, very good. Yeah, it's that kind of movie. It's definitely, for sure, that kind of movie. The other one that I haven't seen was the new version of The Innocence. The Turning? The Turning. With Mackenzie Davis and Brooklyn Prince.

The movie is basically just about how Brooklyn Prince annoys McKenzie Davis into terror. I kind of liked it. I kind of liked it. I kind of liked it. It's maybe not good. but I liked it. Yeah, I want to see it. Another Musty Mansion movie. Musty Mansion movie. I want to bring the phrase

Cowardy Cowardy Custard back into modern usage at some point. God. I just want to taunt somebody with that just because it's funny. Again, your most dated character. That's at the point in the movie where I am like,

these children fully suck. I can't with the Cowardy Cowardy Custard scene. I love it. I love it. That's when I want to throw my viewing device out into the street so

I want to talk about Alejandro Mennebar for a second not only because he does such a great job directing this movie but also because he is a cutie pie um we talked about

danced around Oscar in a couple movies Aubrey Los Sohos in 1997 um gets remade as Vanilla Sky the others in 2001 should have gotten more attention

than it did And then he Does the sea inside win the foreign language film Oscar in 2004? Yes, it's also nominated for makeup and Javier Bardem was probably close. Yes. Yeah, was he Globe nominated?

Yes, he was. Okay. Yeah, absolutely. Definitely came close. It definitely feels like at that point, Amenabar. A menabar is an interesting person too. Apparently he and his family fled Chile

like right before the Pinochet ascendancy in Chile. He's 18 months old. Apparently he had gone like momentarily mute for a year at 18 months that he had just like he had started talking and then he stopped talking

for a while from the you know the tumult of terrifying moving to across the world essentially he moves to Spain Tom Cruise was the one who sort of insisted that the others be in English, be an English language movie, and Amenabar filmed most of it in Spain, in Madrid, I believe, except for, I think the one exception is the scene where she's out on the grounds walking through, walking down the path, and it gets all foggy. I think that was filmed at an English state. So it was shot on a set. It was not a real mansion. They found, like, the one Victorian.

and mansion in Spain and and filmed it there I believe from what I'd read and um he didn't speak English at the time he like you know had an interpreter fully um but I think it's I think it's an incredibly impressive thing and then so his follow-up to the sea inside it's like five years later I remember being very very anticipatory of it he makes a movie called Agora which is about a sort of philosopher Christian, or a philosopher, sort of like, mathematician, rather, in ancient Egypt, played by Rachel Weiss, and it did nothing. Like, nobody saw it. It did have Oscar buzz, for sure, but, like, way long lead Oscar buzz.

And then it really... I think it was, like, a Toronto premiere, maybe. Yeah, it was such a quiet. until the next year. Yeah, yes. It was such a quiet premiere. Nobody really talked about it. Oscar Isaac's in it.

Max Miguel is in it. I should see it at some point because I do love Rachel Weiss and Oscar Isaac a lot. But definitely a disappointment. And then from there, he makes a movie called, doesn't make another feature for another, like, six years. Makes a movie called Regression with Ethan Hawk as a police. detective and Emma Watson is also in this movie and it reminds me... Supposedly terrible. Yeah, it reminds

me of like, Ethan Hawke does more movies than you think and it's that like he'll make like that one with Selena Gomez or like, just like movies that like sort of disappear into nothingness. But yeah, it's supposedly... Yeah, he never stops working. Really bad. And then most

recently he made a Spanish language film called While at War which takes place in the 1930s. I want to say in Spain, but like I didn't see it, so I don't really know. It was that last year's TIF, and I heard nothing. Yes, that's another one. It was just like it was a very, very, very quiet, quiet premiere and didn't really go anywhere. So it's kind of too bad. I, you know, this is obviously an incredibly talented filmmaker. You wonder what kinds of opportunities he's, did and didn't get in the wake of something like the others. I'm surprised that his follow-up to the others,

I guess I'm not surprised, but I think it's probably notable that his follow-up to the others is another Spanish language movie, and that probably sort of maybe took him out of the sort of like American filmmaking, you know, environment, and he just had trouble. Maybe he never wanted to really make English language films in the first place. Right, right.

Because, I mean, you mentioned he had to be convinced to film this movie in English. It's a bummer that the foreign language film Oscar goes literally to the country and not the filmmaker, even though the filmmaker is the one who accepts the award. Because it would be nice to, you know, to know that he has an Oscar somewhere in his home or something like that. I don't know. Exactly. But, yeah, I really like him. I would love for him to make a movie of some note again. Perhaps with another musty mansion.

Love a musty mansion. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the state's musty mansion. Yeah. Oh, yeah, but the other thing about the others was, I think initially he wanted to set it in Chile, which would have, again, you know. It would have had a whole other level of contextualization. Yep, yep, yep, yep.

But I think it's incredibly impressive that he does provide the levels of context in the others from a culture that is not his. You know what I mean? Just like he really does like get to a lot of really interesting stuff for setting it in the Channel Islands in England and that kind of things. Well, I mean, that's actually really interesting because if it did have some type of like personal component going back to when his family had to flee or some type of relation to that. it speaks to like what really works about this movie so much is the actual human story behind like the horror elements of it right or at least for me I think like I don't know and that's like when you talk about like these type of gothic horrors

like it's really not like the ghosts and stuff that make it what it is in the genre it's whatever the human dynamic is yeah yeah I love this movie I really really love it Watching it again, I was so happy about it. I was surprised at how many prominent critics didn't. Like, Ebert didn't love this movie. A.O. Scott gave it a negative review. Wesley Morris gave it a negative review.

And I think a lot of the criticisms of it were a lot of criticisms that you see about people who don't love quote-unquote elevated horror movies today about how it's all anticipation and no follow-through. it withholds too much, it's too distant, it's too cold, like all this kind of stuff, which... I don't feel that about this movie at all, though. One of the reviews said that it just, like, it was a slog and that it was too long. I think this is a very fairly brisk movie. Yeah, this movie flies by.

I mean, it's probably one of those, like, victims to, like, what people are contextualizing the movie against. Like, August is always weirdly seen as this horrible month for movies. So it's like you feel like there's this sense of like sometimes that people just expect things to be bad. We talked about the sixth sense and how like that kind of overshadowed this movie. Yeah. Yeah. So it's like people are bringing some type of baggage to the movie that doesn't hold water with the movie itself to me. I also think just people tend to have more strict requirements for something like a horror movie where I think there's a lot of,

of, I think that's a genre that comes in with a lot of preconceptions and a lot of demands. Do you know what I mean? That you need a movie to deliver something specifically for you. And if it doesn't make you feel a certain way, a comedy, I guess, is the same thing, right? It was just like, well, I didn't laugh. So what are you going to do? I wasn't scared. What are you going to do?

You know what I mean? Like, that's sort of, you know, it's tough to argue your way around that. But I don't know. I'm also a person who fucking loves all the elevated horror movies of recent vintage. So, like, I'm probably your target audience for something like this. The, I hate that term, but, like, yes, the elevated horror movies that are actually comedies. I kind of don't, have we had this argument before about how I really don't hate that term? And I think it's actually fairly useful.

And I think that the people who argue loudest against it feel to me, and this is, I'm not obviously talking about you, but like, It feels defensive in a way of just sort of just like, you're not smarter than me. And it's just like, we're not saying we're smarter than you. It's just like there is definitely, I think, some value in differentiating that kind of horror movie from something that is more visceral. I guess what I, why I don't like it is because a lot of this discussion of elevated horror is saying like, oh, well, this movie is doing something. this has like ideas about character or it has a theme or something and it's not just like killing people

and like when you try to hold that against I guess finger quotes more traditional or straightforward horror I don't think that that type of assessment is true it's not true of something like the others it's not true of something like scream even something that's like a cheesy horror movie or like might have some bad performances in it

like Nightmare on Elm Street has ideas and has, like, a point of view, you know. Yes, but like I... It's about something. I love Scream as much as I love Scream. I think that is both the movie and the franchise. I am fine saying that that is not elevated horror, and I don't think it diminishes the movie to say that.

Yeah. I don't know. Maybe you're just a little more thought. Shut up. But yes, I am. Joseph, we are now a full episode closer to our 100th episode. My God. I'm so excited.

I'm so excited. I'm so scared. All of those things. Everything the Elizabeth Berkeley ever said came true. And perhaps it is a movie that will make you feel a lot of different things. People certainly did feel a lot of things about it. Indeed. Might be about a lot of different things.

It is, I think. I'm excited to talk about what I think it is about because I have very concrete opinions on it. Oh, boy. Yeah, I'm excited. Do you want to play the IMDB game? I'm excited. Yeah, why don't you tell our listeners what the IMDB game is?

Why don't I? I are not aware already. Exactly. Every week we end our episodes with the IMDB game where we challenge each other with an actor or actress to try and guess the top four titles that IMDB says they are most known for. If any of those titles are television or voiceover work,

we mention that up front. After two wrong guesses, we get the remaining titles release years as a clue, and if that is not enough, it just becomes a free-for-all of hints. If that is not clear enough, we have Victor and his psychic woman show up to realize we've been dead this whole time.

Victor, come out. One, my last note on the movie before we actually do the game is when you actually see Victor at the end of the movie, he looks like a bratty little kid. And Victor is, like, mean the whole time, and I get that they're, like, ghosts in his house, but, like, when you see him at the end, I was like, I knew you would look like a little...

There is the point in the bedroom where he's like, you don't know who my parents are, and it's just like, shut up, Victor. Yeah, shut up, you little British Nazi. Wow. You know that Victor and his family were, like, maybe not on the rights. They're just like, we're going to move here

because it's the only place we can go now that the war is. Shut up, Victor. All right, yes. So, what do we want to do? Do you want to guess first? Do you want to go first? IMDB game. How about I give first? Let's steer it. Let's do it. I have a

fun person for you. Talking about the others, the movie where Nicole Kidman is a ghost or is haunted by ghost and did not get an Oscar nomination. I have for you, someone who not only was nominated, but won for interacting with ghosts. We are talking about

Whoopi Goldberg. Yes. Oh, my God. No television, not the view, no voiceover, not like... No television. No. All right. Well, Ghost. Ghost.

Her Oscar win. The Color Purple. The Color Purple, another nomination for Whoopi. Sister Act. Sister Act. Yes. Sister Act. She Globe nominated or she win the Globe for that.

No, she was nominated. That would have been 92. So who would have won? Oh, Miranda Richardson won the Globe that year for Enchanted April. I don't think so. Whoopi's so good. Sister Act is. such a fucking good movie

and she's so wonderful and I know it's a generational thing and I know it's probably about what got shown on TV more but the people who say that Sister Act 2 is best than it's a Stract 1 go get a lobotomy

like I don't understand like it is Here's the problem with Sistract 2 It's the same fucking movie Why She in a Rabbit? The central concede of it that they're like We're teachers now is absurd Like they just went and got a teaching license

And now they're all teachers The point of Sister Act is that she's undercover, she's hiding out at a convent because the mob is trying to kill her and she has to hide out in a convent. That all gets resolved at the end of Sister Act 1. Why is she a nun and Sister Act 2? It doesn't make sense. It makes no sense.

It has a very confusing relationship with how famously she is. She could still work with the nuns without dressing up as a nun. However, all of that being true, it is very strange to try to wrap your brain around it watching that movie. You are insane. Sister Act 2 rules. It is fantastic. It is a great modern musical. It's fine.

It's wonderful. It's so good. Cister Act 1. I will also say, though, what I think the reason is for all of my complaints is that this was a script that existed as something else, as the movie that it is, and they were trying to make a sequel and they're like, we have this script.

Let's just change these characters. When you watch that movie, I fully think it existed originally, not as a sister actually. It should have been pitch perfect 0.5. It fully, like, original, it's, like, it's all religious music, obviously, but it fully invented the whole, like, glee, pitch perfect thing. I'm just saying, sister act one, uh, is my holy queen that I hail, uh, often. Anyway.

Oh, Maria. I'm three for three. You are three for three, you still have one movie to guess, and you have no wrong answers. Yeah, I have no wrong answers, but this is where it gets tricky, because there's, like, it's not going to be any of those 90s comedies that she starred in that, like, are pretty forgettable, like, Eddie or whatever. But, like, what's another? I have absolutely know what Theodore Rex you are talking about. Is it Jumpin' Jack Flash? No.

Damn. Okay. All right. All right. Whoopi Goldberg. It's not going to be something like Ghosts of Mississippi. I'm trying to think of other stuff maybe like from the 80s, but like 80s is always tricky to guess. And like, she did fully like stop making movies.

while ago Whoopi Goldberg And it's like Not even like HBO Like one woman show stuff Like

No, that would have counted as TV Yeah, okay Okay, all right, okay She doesn't have a big enough role in the player damn this is really hard wait is it Cisterc 2 it's Cisterc 2

Motherfire I should have known You got that just in time to get a perfect score I'm so mad at it to do the perfect score Proving that you are wrong Cister Act 2 is awesome God damn it I should have no

I love also the poster of Cisterac 2 is basically just whoopee Not like making any like squeaks or whatever while I'm... Oh, I've been fully dancing, waiting for you to get to Sister Act, too. I'm here just, like, grooving. What other stuff is on her is on her IMDB

that, like, might have showed up instead? I mean, she has a lot of small roles and things. She's been in Tyler Perry movies. She was just in Nobody's Fool with Tiffany Haddish. Is she in for colored girls? Am I remembering that? Yes. Yes. She's also in which Medea movie is she in?

Is it Medea goes to jail? Yes, Medea goes to jail. Oh, she's credited as Whoopi. Whoop by the way, has herself a lot. For this film year, 2001, that Nicole Kimman was nominated. She shows up in the Mulan Rouge outfit.

Does a phenomenal job mere months after, this was, after the Emmy is, this was like the big award show after 9-11. And there's a lot of disparate tones that she has to really keep in balance in that Academy Awards. And by the way, that show went long as hell. That was like one of the really, really

long Oscars. And it's such a delight. I've re-watched it recently. And it's so good. Who came out and did the first, like, literally said, do movies still matter more than ever? Tom Cruise. Tom Cruise. Yep, exactly. And of course, they cut Nicole Kidman

because they can help themselves, and she looked incredibly uncomfortable. Yeah, that's true. Who do you have for me? Oh, so I went the Phenola Flanagan route, of course, naturally. The only other movie I really think of when I think of Phenola Flanagan besides the others is the divine secrets of the Yaya Sisterhood because of course. Fantastic. A movie packed with actressing talent, Ellen Burstyn, Sandra Bullock, Maggie Smith doing a hilarious accent. Finola Flanning and doing a hilarious accent.

Shirley Knight's in that movie, and the one that I've chosen for you, who plays young Ellen Burstyn in this movie, Ashley Judd. Yeah. Oh, okay. So, Ashley Judd, there's going to be a bunch of options.

We did an episode on Double Jeopardy. I think Double Jeopardy could be possible. but it could also be Kiss the Girls or any number of those other courtroom-y movies. I know that it was on for Natalie Portman or maybe it was Stocker Channing where the heart is. I'm just going to say where the heart is.

Incorrect, but that's a good guess. Okay. Fine, then I'll say Double Jeopardy. Correct. Double Jeopardy. How many of these do I think are on there? I'll just say Kiss the Girls. No, and that's surprising. I would have absolutely said Kiss the Girls, but that is wrong. All right, so that's two incorrect answers.

You've gotten one of them. Your remaining three are from 1995, 2004, and 2006. Interesting. So this is past kind of those legal thriller years. or no, how late was she still doing them? One of them, I will say, is I'm giving you the film festival year rather than the release year. Hmm.

So, is one of those, um, uh, wait, what was the one in the 90s? Say the 90s one again. 95. That's got to be heat. It is. It's heat. She's, heat. So good and also sweaty in heat.

That was during her era where she would only show up movies if she had to like sweat buckets. It was that and then a time to kill. A time to kill, she's literally just like dripping wet in that movie. I felt so bad for her watching that movie. Yeah. Okay. I'm just going to guess Bug. Yes, that's the one 2006 at Cannes.

She's incredible in that. Does not open until 2007 in the States was famously despised by audiences because the ads totally lied to you about what kind of movie it was. It's a great movie. She's incredible. She's incredible.

Absolutely incredible. Michael Shannon's incredible. Love bug. Okay. What's my other year? Oh, uh, oh four. So after Yaya's Sisterhood, she kind of takes a break.

is DeLovely Is it DeLovely? Stupid. Golden Globe nominee for DeLovely. And that's probably why it's on her known for. It's a lovely, a movie that was disappointing for me, I will say.

I really wanted that movie to be really great. I love Kevin Klein. I love Ashley Judd. Love musicals. And it's love gay shit. And it's all such a disappointment. Yeah. Love Alanis Morissette. Love Alanis Morset. Exactly.

Exactly. Alanis Morset covering DeLovely and that always makes me think of the Toriamos cameo in Mona Lisa Smile. Yeah. DeLovely soundtrack is good. Movie not so much. Movie not so much. Yeah. Sorry, Erwin Winkler.

We... Isn't it like Cheryl Crowe doing Begin the Begin? Yeah, there's a lot of... Wait, now I want to go into the cast list of that movie and find the cameos, because there is... We may have to save it for the actual DeLeveli episode that we'll eventually do. Oh, yeah, we should do a good episode. Yeah. They credit Cole Porter as a musical performer for an archive sample.

All right. I think that's in the credits. Robbie Williams, Elvis Costello, Alanis Morissette, Cheryl Crowe, John Baraman, Diana Krawl, Natalie Cole It's a lot It's a lot of cameos Yeah, we'll do that way sometime Joseph

Tell our listeners where they can find more of you Oh sure Twitter at Joe Reed Redispelled R-E-I-D Letterboxed Joe Reed spelled the exact same way Fantastic, I'm Chris Filele on Twitter, same on Letterbox

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So please be our own ghost housekeepers and take down those curtains and tell us, this house is ours. This house is ours. This is our house, house is ours. That's all for this. week, and we hope you'll be back next week for more buzz. Bye. can tell me so much

I can say you remain my power, my pleasure, my