This Had Oscar Buzz - 102 – The Walk

Episode Date: July 13, 2020

Bonjour, listeners! This week, we’re returning to the work of Robert Zemeckis for a film whose buzz was built first by an Oscar winning documentary. In 2008, Man on Wire steamrolled the documentary race with the telling of highwire artist Philippe Petit’s daring tightrope performance between the World Trade Center towers – leading Zemeckis to give Petit the … Continue reading "102 – The Walk"

Uh-oh, wrong house. No, the right house. I didn't get that! We want to talk to Marilyn Heck. Welcome to New York. Anything to declare? I'm going to hang a high wire between the two towers of the World Trade Center and walk on it. Good luck.

No matter where I was going or what I was doing, I was always searching, looking for the perfect place to hang my wire. Whoa. I need you to help me pull this off. I got just the guys. Now it starts. Hello and welcome to the This Had Oscar Buzz podcast, the only podcast that put Lady Marmalade back into the popular consciousness years before Mulan Rouge. Every week on This Had Oscar Buzz we'll be talking about a different movie that once upon a time had Lofty Academy Award aspirations, but for some reason or another, it all went wrong. The Oscar hopes died, and we are here to perform the autopsy.

I'm your host, Joe Reed. I'm here as always with my Francophile co-host, Chris Foyle. Hello, Chris. Bonjour, Josef. Oh, my little immigrant. I can't believe... Listeners cannot see this, but we have chef hats on. We are steaming the lobsters.

We are full ratatooie mode right now. I had forgotten that this movie starts with him perched on the torch of the Statue of Liberty, literally exactly the same as Henri the Pigeon in an American tale as voiced by Christopher Plummer, which is like my go-to for bad French, like for like Hammy French accents or whatever, I could not, could not believe that that's what the, and that he's wearing, he puts on a little top hat, which is also from that scene in an American tale. I was, I was gooped, as they say.

So young and you have lost hope. Oh, this is America, the place to find hope. If you give up, you will never find your family. Which, Zemeckis, is Zemeckis a producer on American Tale, or is that just Spielberg and George Lucas? I thought that might be something. Well, it was, um, Don Bluth was the director, but, like, his whole, like, little, um, now I'm going to look at up. Because it was an Amblin movie. It was an Amblin movie.

You're totally right about that. um it doesn't show up on his producer credits let me um and that's me just thinking wrong however it would be really funny if he was somewhat associated and then fully just ripped off an american tale god it's so good i love that movie so much we need to like drum up some oscar buzz for that movie uh so i can go because you just want to talk about american tale yeah it's an oscar nominee Was that not an original song nominee? It was. All right, now I've got it on IMDB.

Probably for the wrong song, because I'm sure that I would bet money right now that somewhere out there was an Oscar nominee, if not the winner that year. But they should absolutely have nominated There Are No Cats in America. They should have nominated There Are No Cats in America, although that song is like,

I guess all the songs in that movie are super short. They did nominate somewhere out there, which is, a great song and like kind of weird when you when like because it also was as where many songs from animated films at the time covered on like a pop version so in this case it was linda ronstat and james ingram and their version of it sounds very much like a love song but of course in the movie it is sung between two sibling mice and um no they lost to incest anthem somewhere out there. Lost to Berlin's Take My Breath Away from Top Gun, because it was...

Sure, sure. That year. God, that movie was earlier than I even thought it was. Okay, this is a really good year. God, okay, all of the 80s are good years for Best Original Song. That's like the secret sauce of the Best Original Song category, is that you pick any year from the 80s, and it is Fire upon Fire upon Fire. Okay, so this one, the sort of the throwaway is a Henry Mancini song. from a movie called That's Life, and the song is called Life in a Looking Glass. Like, set that one aside.

Other four, winner is Take My Breath Away from Top Gun, which, like, say what you will about Top Gun, and I will. But, like, that's a really good song. Somewhere out there from an American tale, makes me cry whenever I see it in context. Mean Green Mother from Outer Space, which was the song that they added to Little Shop of Horrors. Amazing. And Alan Mencken, Howard Ashman, like, Classic, classic for a reason. And then the fifth one, which a lot of people find incredibly cheesy, but I super love,

is Peter Satera's Glory of Love from the Karate Kid Part 2, which is a karaoke favorite, if you ever have the misfortune of being in the same room as me doing karaoke, I will find a way to do either Glory of Love or You're the Inspiration by Peter Satera because I just will. All right. Please remember Peter Satera actually wrote the song so that we have Oscar nominee, Peter Satera. Yeah, he absolutely did. He and...

Oh, fantastic. And David Foster, Mr. Catherine McPhee. Who are the producers on the American Tail? That's why I came here. Okay. Don Bluth, Gary Goldman, Kathleen Kennedy, Frank Marshall, Stephen Spielberg, among some others. So, yeah.

So it is, it's like, Zemeckis was not in Amblen. Right. Because the thing about Zemeckis is, like, the whole, like, 80s product of things, like, especially, like, Spielberg, him and George Lucas, it's just like, we don't remember that they, like, collaborated on producing things. Maybe I'm wrong about Zemeckis, or maybe it's just the thing that, like, back to the future gets, like, wrapped up in Spielberg culture. Right, right. Well, okay, so Zemeckis is producing credits in the 1980s. I'm trying to think of, like, look at things that he didn't,

direct. Like, he was executive producer on the Frighteners. Peter Jackson's The Frighteners. And like... That movie is so good. Tales from the Crypt, he was an executive producer on the TV series, and then also Bordello of Blood, which was one of the movies. I think there were a couple movies. Oh, and also on Demon Night. Yeah, so he was like EP on stuff like that.

Oh, God, remember that movie The Public Eye with Joe Pesci as the crime scene photographer? no oh god okay so the poster is i've never seen it the poster almost looks somewhat like campy it's like this really oh yes i recognize this poster but i don't think i ever saw the movie i never saw the movie either um barbara hershey also in that movie uh so like zemecas produced that zamekis produced house on haunted hill 1999 yeah he has like no 80s production credits i am completely insane No, but I don't, I mean, it has the ring of truth for me as well.

Like, that seems like the kind of thing that he would have done. But instead, he just decided to move into the 90s and then the 2000. His 90s are really kind of sparse, right? He directs, now I'm going to move into his directing credits. IMDB make this easier for me. So the 90s is like his greatest mainstream success, which is Forrest Gump, in terms of like whatever prestige. Obviously, his greatest in the mainstream success is back to the future. But 1990s begins with Death Becomes Her, which we, of course, love and appreciate right now,

but remember at the time, was, like, held up as, it wasn't held up as, like, a bomb or a disappointment, but it was one of those movies where it's just, like, I guess, Merrill can't do comedy, which, like, obviously she can, and she's crazy. But, like, the reaction to that movie was out of whack. So Death Becomes Her 92, Forrest Gump 94, Best Picture Winner, massive moneymaker, like, changes the culture, whatever. And then Contacted in 97, which is another movie that wasn't received as well as it probably should have been and kind of was seen as a Jody Foster disappointment at the moment. And that's his 90s, three movies, that's it.

And then he moves into the 2000s and, like, slowly but surely, every film becomes a little bit more of a stunt. Like, what lies beneath famously films that in between Tom Hanks getting skinny for castaway. But, like, castaway for as good as that movie is, is a stunt. Then it's Polar Express and Beowulf and Christmas Carol,

which is like, do you dare look into the dead-eyed soulless like CGI characters that we have created for you? Between those three, though, the animation does at least get better. Beowulf is a little bit of a screen saver. I will take your word for it. I will never watch a Christmas carol. I don't have, I don't have

the courage in me. It's a decent Christmas Carol movie. That's fine. I can't look at it. I just, I would have to go in. The Polar Express, however, is a scourge on this earth. Beowulf is, I mean, kind of cool. Like, I remember watching that movie. I was like, oh, there's definitely, like, a hard-ar version of this movie where they just are constantly cutting away for this PG-13 rating. It just felt like Beowulf was like, hey, wouldn't you like it if this, like, ancient, whatever, Norse epic? I don't know where Beowulf comes from, Saxony or something, like old, old, old, old Europe, right? Beowulf comes, like, post-300, is it after 300?

yeah but like this like you know type of ancient epic but it also has like it's chasing like lord of the rings kind of vibes but like look at the thick meaty thighs of these like ancient characters of literature what if you wanted to fuck ray winstone right exactly that's exactly right or just like or just like what if you wanted to fuck like half of the like classic literature books that you read when you were in college or whatever like that's kind of a thing So though that sort of trilogy of Uncanny Valley, right, then 2012 is Flight, which is objectively a terrible script that is absolutely salvaged by A, Denzel Washington's performance, and B, Zemeckis's visual filmmaking, which I, as I think I've mentioned on this podcast before, will sometimes just watch the plane crash. scene from flight just to sort of feel something. It is so terrifying and exhilarating.

And like, I still, every single time when you see that shot of the upside down airplane coming out of the clouds or that moment where Brian Garrity, who plays the co-pilot, is just screaming just like, oh, I see his houses. It's just like, it's such a good scene. It's so terrifying. And it is the film he makes right before the walk, and it's an interesting. template because the thing with flight was, you know, Denzel Washington great performance, but the thing with flight was the rest of the movie's kind of crap, but watch it for this

incredibly unbelievable centerpiece set piece that you have to see to believe and will like see it on as big as screen as possible and yada, yada, yada. And walk was like that times a billion, which is you have to endure. The pitch for this movie essentially was, Even from people who liked it, you have to endure everything else about it, an annoying lead character, it takes forever to get to where it's going, whatever, but the- It stars Pepe Lepe-L-pe-le-pe-peu. It sure does. Stars Pepe Lepeau in a season one L-word wig. I'm just now imagining actual Pepe Lepeu like bouncing across the wire like, do-do, do-do, do-do, and the cat, the poor cat on the, I think she got away.

she's in the other building and now she's got to anyway um endure all of that get past all of that because the half an hour or so when he's actually on the wire and he's doing zewalk when he's doing zewalk um is breathtaking and it is i will say as somebody who has seen this movie on a television right like i can't remember the first whether i'd ever actually seen it in theaters i kind of don't think so because it was in and out of theater so quickly but even on television it's amazing and like everything in your brain is telling you I know this is fake because a like I know they couldn't have filmed it up there because the twin towers were gone by them and yet it totally overrides all of those impulses and like it really

is breathtaking but like the getting there is such a challenge and for me also and I don't know if this is true of you I have a really big hurdle with this movie when it comes to what was it all for in character like in terms of the character of Philippe petite like I get that this is breathtaking to look at

but like I really have a big hurdle of why this was a necessary thing to do and the movie kind of makes this claim of just like I had to you know it's you know and I love I had to. Oh, excuse me, excuse me.

Because I had to. Well, right. Part of this is this sort of like free solo thing, right? Of, you know, the mountains there, so I have to climb it and I have to, you know, whatever. It's the kind of person. He feels like a compelling thing. I think the movie actually does paint him more as an artist than anything. And like this is his like artistic endeavor if you want to consider it that way.

I think the movie does a good job of that. But, like, I think it has other problems, notably Joseph Gordon Levitt, but we can get into that. But, like, in terms of the release and, like, you have to endure this bad movie for the spectacle of it, it wasn't just, like, you have to see this last thing. You have to see it on the hugest screen possible. By the way, the movie is also in 3D. Right. IMAX 3D. Right.

And to make it worthwhile. the people who liked it, I sent you a link to this article that I still remember from back then that Matt Singer wrote for Screen Crush, which was like after the movie had fully bombed and after it was essentially like on its way out of at least IMAX theaters and like soon after out of regular theaters. Because again, this movie made $10 million domestic. It's just it's crazy. Kind of insane. Absolutely cratered. And so Matt, who really liked the movie wrote pretty compellingly, I think, about this idea of this sort of quixotic thing of just like, I went to see this movie that nobody wanted to see. He put the graphic in the article is of the like the Fandango seat map of like pick your seat. And it's just like everything's available in this entire huge IMAX thing because nobody's going to see this movie. And, you know, talked about the spectacle of seeing. the sort of like capital M movie on this big screen or whatever, and I get that.

I do, you know, see the appeal and the thrill and the joy in that and the respect for Zemeckis for doing something like that. But like, you do have to create the rest of the movie, you know? Yeah. Like, I appreciate the spectacle of it all, but I don't know. Oh, man. It's so, yeah, it's very, very corny. I would actually say I kind of liked the movie a lot, too.

Did you? I did. I liked it certainly more than I thought it would, at least when the movie's not embarrassing. Because there's a lot, like, it's basically, like, framed like a fable. You mentioned he, like, starts the movie in the torch of the Statue of Liberty, narrating directly to the audience, like, it's, um, Like, it's literally a ride at Disneyland, right? Yes.

Right. It feels very much like, did you ever, did you go to Universal Studios ever? Never. No. They had a twister ride that is, I believe, gone now. And it was like, you go in a room, and then there's Helen Hunt and Bill Paxton talking to you on a screen. And then you go into another room that is the ride. I always think of that Simpsons episode where I think it's when the school.

gets that windfall of money, the Mr. Burns episode maybe, and they're trying to, everyone wants to know what they would do with the money for the school, and Lisa envisions these virtual reality installations that she could use to learn, and she imagines, like, uh, Genghis Khan, sort of like narrating this tour through his exploits. Hello, Lisa. I'm Genghis Khan. You'll go where I go. Defile what I defile. Eat who I eat. Hello, Lisa, come with me as I maraud my way through, you know, greater Asia. And it's that, that's sort of what I think of when I think of the phenomenon that you're describing. Well, but it just like kind of starts the movie off in this really kind of silly way, made all the more silly because Joseph Gordon Levitt is, um, deeply not in control of his French dialect.

Which is so funny because one of the things that, like, they made such a big deal out of is, like, Joseph Gordon-Levett took French courses in college and he's kind of a Francophile and all this kind of thing. And it's just like, it's not there on the screen, my friends. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, like, also, knowing how to speak French does not make you, that is not a prerequisite for having a French. dialect in English, which is 99% of his dialogue in this movie. We can get into more in his performance once we're on the other side of the 60-second plot, but I feel like he's kind of actively the movie's problem. Yeah, we'll go deep on Joseph Gordon-Levich, because I do have a lot to say there.

I would also say, too, like, it feels like this movie would be a lot more exciting up until the actual high-wire act. it's structured like it's a heist movie and Zemeckis doesn't treat it like it's a heist movie Yeah No because the first hour is played as this sort of like Like a French farce to the point of You keep expecting to see like a little monkey with a concertina in his hands

Like in the corner of the frame at some point Just like wearing a little beret or something It's just like it's treating it with that kind of like cartoonish farcicalness and it's just like I don't know if you know and if again the strengths of this movie are when it feels like a hoist movie and are when it feels like he's got this like little rag tag group with like James Badgdale and like Ben Schwartz wearing the most ridiculous like wing slash mustache apparatus ever um but like I want to return really quickly to my like my central sort of nagging thing which is like

And you make the point that the movie sells him as an artist, and it does. And, like, Lord knows, I will fully buy into, like, an art for art's sake thing. Like, give me anything about a dancer at all in real life or in fiction. And I am fully invested in just, like, the dance with all capital letters and just, like, the artistic, you know, merit of it and whatnot. And even still, I'm watching this movie and I'm just like, so like, you're putting your life in danger and like the lives of everybody who is helping you in danger and everybody who is on the ground kind of in danger because of like that cable falls and like anything from that shit falls, like someone could get like seriously dead and all this sort of stuff. And again, within the milieu of like the Twin Towers, which is. This movie is aware of the historical gravity of that, of those buildings. So it's weird then that it asks you to find all of this so kind of like whimsical or like kind of heartwarming.

And it's just like, and I couldn't get over the hurdle of just like, why, what is all of this for, if not for this sort of like act of aggrandizement? And the movie kind of tries to sell where like, he salutes the city and he salutes his audience. and then at the end he makes this sort of like the movie makes this kind of ludicrous claim that like people didn't love the towers before philippe peteet came around and all of a sudden after yeah he made them love this of the and it's just like fuck you kind of and i don't know like i just have such a and it's such a pedantic complaint where it's just like you know i didn't think he should be doing it in the first place but like i didn't i thought that way with man on wire also when i was watching man on wire and i was just like this is all like very interesting and great, but also, like, fuck you for doing this. This didn't need to be. This didn't need to happen. Yeah. I don't know. I mean, I think

Man on Wire at least makes it this movie has a characterization problem because like, it feels like it needs to rely on this incredibly charming performer to play this asshole, right? But at

the same time, like, it doesn't maybe this is where I kind of align with your thoughts like you don't understand the purpose of it and I think it's because we don't really understand the person and man on wire definitely paints the picture of him as a person as an individual as a character far better than this movie does. Yeah.

Well, let's get through the basics and then through the 60 second plot and we can sort of dive back in because I think it's a conversation worth having for a movie that I still don't think I liked very much. But, like, it's got its moments for sure. We are, of course, talking about Zewak, directed by Robert Zemeckis. I will not keep doing this.

I'm sorry, it's too annoying. Written by Robert Zemeckis and Christopher Brown, starring Joseph Gordon Levitt, Ben Kingsley, Charlotte LeBond, James Badgedale, Ben Schwartz, other people, many of whom are French, premiered September 26th, 2015 at the New York Film Festival, opened the New York Film Festival in September of 2015, and opened days later to a just... To an audience of dozens. An audience of dozens, indeed. Yeah, like we said, $10 million at the box office.

Hoof, all right. Chris, what's the French version of Chris? Christoph. Christoph, would you like to deliver a... a 60-second plot description of Zawak. We. All right, let me pull out my phone.

Give you one minute on the clock. And if you are ready, we. Ebegin. Zewak is a, how you say, biopic about very petty. He is a street performer.

He wants to be a wire actor. So when he... A wire actor, what's an actor? He goes to the circus, and Ben Kingsley is there, and he wants him to teach him how to walk on a high wire, and at first he says, no, absolutely not get out of my circus. He falls in love with this lady who sings on the street. They kind of have a romance, but he decides when he sees that the World Trade Center towers are being built, that he wants to walk on a wire above the between the towers in New York City. So they go to New York City, he gets a whole crew of people, they spy on it. the towers basically and then he goes on the towers and then he does he's uh he walks on the wire

and uh then he gets arrested and uh he's uh legend that is sevoque du one time well done um yeah it's like kind of structured like it's some kind of fable or fairy tale it's very cutesy with the like fourth wall breaking direct address. Yeah. The shot where he's juggling whatever and, like, catches the thing in his mouth and then, like, bites down on it and has to go to the dentist and, like, whatever, it's just like, it's so, I don't know, goofy.

It's goofy. What I thought was interesting, because, like you said, the beginning of the movie starts off on the Statue of Liberty. And then later in the movie, when he's on the wire and he's sort of cross-end. over and whatever, and they have these close-up shots of them. I was like, wow, talk about your all-time missed opportunities to have the classic freeze frame. I bet you're all wondering how I got here opening to it, maybe, which would have been like

the greatest one of those of all time. Yeah, exactly. Because he's already giving that, you know, ridiculous the voiceover anyway, which is, oh, boy. Okay, so you had seen this before we watch this. Not. Did you see it in a theater in 3D? No, I didn't. Okay. I didn't.

I was going to ask what that was like. So quickly. No, I also, well, the other thing about seeing it in 3D was a lot of the very early reports, and I think maybe, I don't know how they screened it at New York Film Festival, because they don't have an IMAX, obviously, there. Although, they do sometimes use the Lincoln Square Theater, and that does have an IMAX. It's the one true IMAX in New York City. and they could have screened it there.

At the very least, they could have screened it for press there. So I don't know because I didn't go to that press screening. But like the big, if it was opening night at New York Film Festival, they most certainly had it at Dallas Tully Hall, which is like a big sort of screen, but it's not IMAX. But a lot of the early, or not a lot, but like some of the early reports of the film were just like the high, you know, whatever, the tower scenes were dazzling and whatever.

But some people got nauseous and barfed in. It's just like, and so once it gets to that, I'm just like, well, I'm just not going to do that. Like, I had seen gravity was a couple years before this, and I had seen gravity at the IMAX at Lincoln Square. And that's a movie I loved. But like, I will say that the first maybe like 10 or 15 minutes of that movie, I was genuinely feeling nauseous. And, like, I don't ever experience that with movies. I don't ever get, like, motion sickness or anything like that. But, like, the extreme sort of, like, unmooring of gravity in that film really fucked with me for, like, a good 10, 15 minutes where I was just like, I just did not feel like I had my equilibrium at all.

And my head was kind of swimming. And I was like, am I going to have to get up? And first of all, it's the fucking IMAX, so there's no center aisle. And I was with a friend of mine who wanted, who got in seats, and we sat like right in the middle. And I was just like, if I have to get up to go to the bathroom because I'm feeling puky, I'm going to have to like to walk. You're going to have to like traverse this entire long row of people to get out of here, which is why I hate IMAX. But like, anyway, I will always sit on the side in an IMAX theater. If I have my choice, no matter what kind of a wonky view, I have.

take of the movie. Like, I'm sorry. I just will. You also have to sit, well, for, like, 3D, you kind of have to sit in the very center and, like, not move your head and shoulders for two hours. I will ruin my visual experience just to sit on an aisle. That's how much I need to sit on an aisle. Right. Um, the other thing, too, like, nobody wants to, if people are already having reports of barfing because the 3D is too intense for this movie. But also, like, and people say, I don't want to see that. This is also at the time where 3D was dying.

Oh, yes. Gravity was kind of the last gasp of 3D movies. Yeah. And this feels like the first movie that was, like, designed for it, that fully died on the vine, um, partly because people didn't want to see 3D movies. Well, I think, yes, I think part of it was you had a truly, disastrous few years where 3D was tacked onto every major blockbuster so that studios could squeeze out extra money out of ticket buyers and all of this post-conversion stuff.

And after a while, and it didn't really take that long, I think people started to wise up to the idea of just like, oh, most of these movies do not give you a whole ton of benefit. for seeing him in 3D. A lot of the word was just like, find the 2D screening of this. A lot of reviews would mention, do you really need to see this in 3D? No, not really. See it in 2D. It looks better. 3D always looked dark. The screen was always darker because you had to wear the glasses and all that kind of thing. And the benefits of it more often than not were little, were really slim. And so the bloom fell off of the 3D rose pretty quickly. And by 2015, you're absolutely right. By 2015,

this idea of, oh, you got to see it in IMAX 3D. Like, people weren't buying it anymore. Mm-hmm. Especially for, it's like, the very conceit of why this sequence is so tense and like why you're kind of on the edge of your

seat the whole time is because, like, you can't imagine, like, having that, like, view. Nobody among us would sign up for that to like stare down thousands of feet in the air while you're standing on a wire. And if the movie is simulating that, like, of course nobody wants to sign up for that. It's not like... Right.

Why don't you pay extra money to feel, you know, utterly terrified and... But I guess, I mean, on the other hand, like, what else is a horror movie, but paying money to be terrified? So... It's different, though. Like, I, as somebody who, um, that was, who does have a fear of heights, I was one of those people that was absolutely not. Yeah. With watching this movie in 3D. Have you ever went on your visits to New York City, do you do the, uh, the tall building touristy stuff?

I never have. I mean, not since I was a kid, um, and maybe just like once or twice. Yeah. Like, the Empire State Building is different. Though, because it's all caged in, it's packed with people, which, like, thinking of being in a packed space with other people right now, automatically is making me sweat. Of course. Of course.

But it's, like, it's, it's very stable, you know, like, there's not really a fear. It's very stable. I like that it just, like, don't worry. Nothing moves when you're up there. Nothing, like, sways. I mean, you do because it's very windy. Yeah. Yeah.

It's never held an appeal for me. And I'm sure if I ever got up there and saw the view, I would be very impressed as whatever. But, like, Empire State Building, top of the rock, statue of liberty, like, any of these things were just like one of the, you know, it's just like, I'm fine on Mother Earth. Like, honestly, I'm fine. I one time got invited onto a little boat tour of around the city. and, like, we went right up to the base of the Statue of Liberty, and that was really lovely. That's about as much as I need touristy-wise. Like, I don't, I just, I don't know.

I don't have that need to just, like, get to the top of the tallest building, which always feels like this kind of, like, primal human, just sort of like, you know, why do you climb out Everest? Because it's there, like, that kind of thing. It's just like, eh, who needs it? No, no. Anyway, that was my talking about the walk-me. I was actually kind of rather impressed with the visual effects even though there's like... Yes. There's a veneer to it that like you never...

Even though like the like fear trigger and like fear of heights is like that button is being slammed for the whole last half hour of the movie. It never quite looks real, but like the amount of environment that they create and there are. obviously matching the city to the best that they can, it is still pretty impressive. Yes. I thought. No, I think that's absolutely right. I think the visuals in that last 35 or so minutes of the film are really something, are like really something to see.

They make you invested in this thing that up until that point I didn't think I was very much invested in. I, you know, even on the second time of watching it, I was just like, I know what's coming. I get whatever. It's just like, blah, blah, blah. And yet, like, I'm, you know, wrapped in attention at it, at watching it even again. So it does what it needs to do. It's not quite at the level of what Flight does in its big scene to me, but it does the work. It really, truly does. Yeah. My thing is, I'm putting off Joseph Gordon-Levitt for, like, one more little bit, in the first. hour of this movie as like the team is getting put together and they start to make plans and and all this kind of stuff were you invested in this team not in the least you can't really tell

them apart i can't even remember his love interest character name um seline i don't know like i just assume it's just like it's like nobody there is no characters in this movie besides Her name is Annie. Everybody else just kind of blurs together to the point where even, like, his mentor, who's played by Ben Kingsley, so you think that he's going to have some, like, impact on the movie because it's Ben fucking Kingsley, he doesn't, doesn't do anything. Here's the thing with Ben Kingsley. Here's what I will advance about Ben Kingsley, which is fantastic actor, right? Like, like, legitimately fantastic actor. I can't take that away from him.

He's been amazing. in so many movies, Gandhi, Bugsy, Schindler's List, sneakers, for God's sake. He's so good. Speaking of cracked out accents, but, like, honestly, watch sneakers for what kind of weird Bronx by way of, I don't even know. He's doing in sneakers opposite Robert Redford. It's really amazing. But I think in the last, let's say, decade after House of Sand and Fog, which is another really great performance, he's sort of, and not always, always, but he, I'm looking through his filmography now, but it's stuff like Shutter Island and...

Which he's good in. Hugo, he's great in. Sure, but all of those roles, even though they're not the same roles, like his function in these movies starts to bleed together, where it's just like he is just the the mentor, the expertise, the doctor, the caretaker, the whatever, Do you know what I mean? Where it's just like he's always, whether he's a good guy or a bad guy, he's just the sage in one way or another. Which is why certain things like Iron Man 3, I think, are so fascinating, which is a movie that like really takes what you think you're going to get out of Ben Kingsley even in like a villain role and like totally pulls the rug out from Underview and I think it's so delightful and whatever. but I just I think by the time I get to the walk

I'm just like well I'll you know this is I've seen this kind of thing from him before right maybe doesn't need to be two hours no it sure does like when all of those things are not really working for it yes I think the stuff with the team should have been better and more exciting I like James Badgdell a lot. I love Ben Schwartz. I think he's so funny. And, like, do more with that. Do more with that handsome French man who played his, like, friend who, like, definitely has more chemistry,

sexual or otherwise with Joseph Gordon Levitt than Charlotte Labon does. Charlotte Labon, who, like, lovely woman and, you know, probably a great person. But, like, I've only seen her in two movies, which is this and a hundred-foot journey. And every single time, I'm just like, I would rather be watching Rachel Weiss. Like, she looks so much like Rachel Weiss. And it's just, like, just find, like, dig into your pockets, fellas, like, find a way to cast Rachel Weiss. I don't know. I don't want Rachel Weiss saddled with this movie. No, of course not. And this, like, nothing role of a love interest that we're not at all invested in their relationship whatsoever. And the second that the walk ends, they break up. Oh, yes, which is, like, fidelity to real life, of course.

Why even have a love story in this? And it's like, break up. So, like, non-ceremoniously, where all of a sudden it's just, like, cut to her at the cab being like, guess I'm going back to France. Bye. Yeah. And it's because it really happened in real life, but also in real life he cheated on her. And, like, they didn't really put that in the movie. Yeah, he's a bastard. This is where we can maybe switch over to Joseph Gordon-Levitt talk a little bit.

Because we'll talk about the ways that he is bad. But I also think he is very, very miscast in this movie. Especially, I think the movie's trying to. to what the movie's trying to do is take this really unlikable guy who's like a bastard and you know not you know

at all considerate to his team of people he's a lunatic he's a whatever self-consciously artsy you don't get why this is like why he felt compelled to do this because he's someone who also doesn't explain himself ever and casting Joseph

Gordon Levitt and like the Joseph Gordon Lemit's smile is like a misunderstanding like this it feels dishonest for the character to have somebody who is like seen at least as inherently likable and like he plays it

like I'm super charming and all of this and it's so out of sync with what the character is actually doing that it makes him less likable um yes does that make any sense yeah there's a

there's a moment um before it's like right before they get to the day of doing the walk and Annie he's like whatever

it's late at night and he can't sleep and he's very irritable and whatever and she's just like you know the team needs to know that you appreciate

what they're doing you know they've put their lives on hold and all this and he just goes what do you want me to go in there

and say thank you and it's just like yes yeah you could like that's definitely an option you could go say thank you you fucking asshole like it's just there's so much of that into it or it's just like I just want that character to be the jerk that he is so the movie can be more honest about it and like I think there's a difference between charisma and being charming and the movie asks him to be charming when he's not that charismatic

and like you can have this lead character who's kind of an asshole and if you just have a charismatic performer like this is the same damn year as the Steve Jobs movie that like Michael Vazbender is not charming in that movie but he's compelling to watch but Steve Jobs also is not asking you eventually to I mean even that ending I know is bad but like even with that ending Steve Jobs is not asking you to sort of take away. whimsical flight of fancy with its lead character, the way that the walk ultimately does. So I guess I do understand the impulse of Zemeckis wanting to characterize him that way. I do agree with you that it doesn't work in practice. And I think if it was, if he was more than just like, oh, he's just like a full bastard and then he does this whatever, I probably would have been even more vociferously out on this movie where it's just like, not again that I have to watch another movie about like a white male asshole succeeding through his...

No, I agree with that. I would just think it would be a consistent portraiture of who this man is. I want to sort of take us on a little garden walk through Joseph Gordon-Levitt's career because here is my deep secret, which is that I love Joseph Gordon-Levitt. And I know why people don't. I know. And I get it. But, like, I find his career really fascinating.

and I find his failures almost even more fascinating because it's this weird kind of like if Joseph Gordon Levitt were an actress he would be Anne Hathaway and I love that I love that about him okay go on I'm fascinated by this I also am fascinated by actors who and DiCaprio went through this for a long time where they they their ambitions are often thwarted by the fact that they look like a little boy. And Joseph Gordon-Levitt, I think a lot of this time in his late career really just runs into the brick wall of just like, honey, I'd love for you to be able to do this, but you look like you're 17 still. So like, I don't know.

And so that's what, and I think that is what brings on a lot of people sort of like disliking him, or is it just like, what is this fucking twerp doing, right? So, okay, young, and I also love actors or actresses whose careers come in these very definable stages. Drew Barrymore is another actress like this. So, child career, Joseph Gordon-Levin. He's in a river runs through it. He's in Angels in the Outfield, of course. He's in that movie.

Third Rock from the Sun. Right. It's like six seasons of Third Rock from the Sun. He sort of grows up on that show. He's in that movie, The Juror, where I'm pretty sure he's Demi Moore's son in the juror who was like being threatened by mobster Alec Baldwin which like come on and then he after a third rock from the sun he sort of transitions into this very brief kind of like teen star phase where he's in Halloween age 20 he's in 10 things I hate about you he's sort of the male lead and 10

things I hate about you and if you go back and watch this movie now it's such a despicable quote unquote nice guy character and and whatever like 10 things I hit about you is based on the taming of the shoe like blame Shakespeare all the sort of stuff right but like it's not when you go back you go back and you're just like wow we were really asked to like invest in this like again twerpy little like self-conscious artsy nerd kid who like expects Larissa oleniac to like have sex with him because he's a nice boy and it's just like no like Heath Ledger's characters much preferable in that movie. And I know that, like, they're not in competition, but whatever.

Then I would say that the next phase of his career begins in 2004 with mysterious skin. And that's the movie that, like, really changes the perception on him and sort of starts him on this really, really interesting, I would say. He's also in that movie Latter Days in 2003, where he's, like, he's a supporting character. He's one of the, like, more obedient Mormons who was, like, a jerk to, the gay Mormon, and if you are gay and of a particular age, you definitely saw this movie because it was, like, just mainstream enough that you heard about it, but also, like, there are handsome boys fucking, and we like that about a movie. So, you saw Latter Days, I imagine, yes?

I have not seen Latter Days. Chris, it's not too late. I have seen Mysterious Skin, though. Mysterious skin is amazing. Which Joseph Gordon Leavitt is great. Gregoraki directed, Mysterious Skin. It's a real, it's a real level up in terms of performance, what is being asked of him in this performance. He's really good.

He's very, he uses that boyishness again to his advantage because a lot of the deal with this character in Mysterious skin is he's very boyish looking, but he is playing above his. age, both within the character and also as an actor. So, like, it's really compelling. Then right after that, he does Brick, which is the Ryan Johnson sort of breakthrough movie, which is very particular. It's high school noir in the most, like, literal way possible, but I fucking love that movie. And I fucking love his performance in that movie. And I think that's one of the, to borrow a term from our podcasting friend. Griffin-Newman, Rosetta Stones of Joseph Gordon-Levett's career, which is, like, if you are on board with what he's doing and Brick, I think you're on board with a lot of other things

that he does later in his career that maybe not everybody likes. Agree or disagree. I still have to see Brick. Chris, I'm going to hound you to see Brick. You will maybe hate it, but, like, it's... I fucking love it so much. I mean, I like Ryan Johnson, so... What's that?

I like Ryan Johnson. But I think even the people who now... like Ryan Johnson are also the people who were shitting on brick. So we'll see. He does a movie in 2007 called The Lookout directed by Scott Frank, who is most often a screenwriter. He did the

big Elmore Leonard adaptations. He wrote the script for Get Shorty. He wrote the script for Out of Sight. There was one other thing. I was looking this up earlier. Stop loss. He's in stop loss. Oh, yeah. No, I'm going down the Scot. Oh, okay. Oh, you're talking about Scott Frank.

For, just because there was a movie there, he co-wrote the script for Malice, but that is more of a sork anything. Oh, Little Man Tate. I was like, oh, he wrote the script for Little Man Tate. That's really cute. Anyway, The Lookout's a really interesting movie. Joseph Gordon Levitt's the lead in that.

Matthew Good is also in that movie and is like unrecognizable as this like sort of like scummy, like drug dealer maybe? Something is he's scum-up. Anyway, yeah, Stop Loss, which is a movie we talked about before in the context of Channing Tatum. He's one of the three main characters.

It's him and Ryan Philippi and Channing Tatum. And Kimberly Pierce directed that one. It's really good. He's in Miracle at St. Anna, a Spike Lee movie that I've still never seen. And I didn't realize that he was. And it got really bad reviews. That was, that's a movie that we could end up doing on this podcast. In and out of theaters quickly.

Yeah. Because I remember really thinking that like, oh, it's Spike Lee, but a World War II movie. Like two great, two great taste that maybe. taste great together. And apparently for the American public, it didn't. And then I think you get to the, then you get to the next sort of level of his career, which is 2009 with 500 days of summer. And then it becomes Joseph Gordon Levitt charming, leading man. And it's that, he's obviously not the lead in Inception, but like featured supporting character, sort of right-hand man to DiCaprio. I think he's very charming in that.

50-50, which is his second Golden Globe nomination. He's only two Golden Globe nominations are for films with the digits five and zero in the title, 500 into summer and 50-50. Work on that. Joseph, for the next one, if you want. I remember really liking 50-50. Yeah, 50-50 is great. Like, 50-50 is genuinely so much more. You think it's going to be this, like, dumb Seth Rogen comedy.

right? And it's so much more affecting than you think it's going to be. Angelica Houston's really great. Yes, absolutely. He's in Premium Rush. He does the Dark Night Rises, obviously, which is like, it's annoying, but it's not his fault, that it's annoying that at the end of the movie, they make him say that his middle name is Robin. Christ Almighty. Premium Rush, which is a movie a lot of people really like, and I don't so much. It's fine. It's whatever. Fast bicycle messenger movie. Michael Shannon. doing one of his, like, customary, like, eyeballs fully outside of his skull kind of performances. And sure, great.

He does Looper in 2012 with Bruce Willis, where he's, like, CGI'd to look like young Bruce Willis. It is so odd to look at. It's another Ryan Johnson movie. But that's the Ryan Johnson movie where everybody was like, ooh, Ryan Johnson. Because, like, after the Brothers Bloom, a movie that I also love, everybody was kind of out on Ryan Johnson. And Looper, I think, brought people back. He's in Lincoln, kind of the worst part of Lincoln, but it's not his fault either. That's just not a character we really needed to focus on in Lincoln, playing Lincoln's son.

And then Don John, he steps behind the director chair. And I think Don John is the moment where it's just like, are we really all in on this Joseph Gordon-Levett thing? Because he directs the movie, he writes it. He gets an independent spirit nomination for screenplay for the movie. Yeah. It's, I don't hate it. This might be a movie that we should save the conversation to actually, like, maybe do an episode on it.

Yes, because it was definitely a awards buzz for sure. Well, and it's some, I mean, I think it handled the subject well, but I'd be kind of fascinated to see this movie again under, you know, almost a decade later how the conversation has shifted and how this movie would be treated. Agreed. It's, and it's, it is also a movie where he really does a voice. Like, he puts on a real voice. And like, that maybe kicks off the next phase, which is Joseph Gordon Levitt decides to play capital C characters. And it's the walk where he played, the French accent and the walk, it's Snowden. Where again, he just decides that we can't make a movie about Edward Snowden unless we really go like six feet deep on. this accent of his and really make it sound so much like him. And it's just like, it works. He does sound exactly like him. But it's like that Maya Rudolph gift, to what end? It's just like, to what end? Do what end? Do like, why was that important? And now all of a sudden, all I can think of is you doing this like very elaborate accent. And it's like, that's not the important part of that movie whatsoever. And that's really the last major film he's been in. That was,

four years ago by now. He's supposed to be in the trial of the Chicago 7, which is the new Aaron Sorkin movie that is coming to, I want to say Netflix? Netflix just bought it from Paramount. Thank God because I want to see a movie. And that, like, I will always sign up to watch an Aaron Sorkin movie, good or bad. So, um, although got Aaron Sorkin and Joseph Gordon Levitt together. Like, oh, this cast, this cast, um, I'm doing the Bob the drag queen peppermint X up for my mouth. Not the fracking.

Read it. Read it for us. Oh, my God. It is a cast. Oh, boy. I mean, there's some great people in this guys. Sure, yes. I don't know how high I'm going to be jumping to watch this.

Just Gordon Levitt. Eddie Redmayne. Sasha Baron Cohen. That's basically the thing of, like, if you put those three people in a movie, it's probably not something you would watch. But, but Jeremy Strong. John Carroll Lynch, Frank Langella, Mark Rylance, Michael Keaton. William Hurt, I'm maybe in.

Maybe I'm in. God, not a woman in sight, though, huh? Yep. Not? Caitlin Fitzgerald is like 25th lead, as I'm looking at this on Wikipedia. You fucking demented psycho, Aaron Sorkin. You couldn't have written in one woman. That's wild.

All right. Yep. Anyway. So Joseph Gordon Levin has. like gone away yeah you know we can maybe guess that he is coming back very soon but like I don't know man like I never kind of what's the thing you've liked him most in probably 50 50 yeah so you and those golden globe voters were on the same page that yeah yes yes I mean he's the least the thing about Don John is he's the least interesting thing about

that movie, like his performance. Yes. But Julianne Moore and Scarlett Johansson are great. Yes. Agreed. I feel like he's always selling himself as charming rather than actually being charming in a lot of things. I think 500 days of summer really like dug a grave for him in terms of that.

Yeah, yeah. The like whole, my thing was like, see, I told you. I told you. was when because like I don't think that it's still like in the ether but remember when they announced

Guys and Dolls as a remake and I think it was him in Channing Tatum and was like yes put him in a musical he can sing so well do you remember the Lady Gaga Christmas special with the Muppets yes I watched it

I did not I decidedly did not he came on for a song with her which why why And he's not a good singer. I mean, he's an actor. He's not, you know, he's not a singer.

But, like, he was also being sold to us as like, this guy could be in a musical. But I think that's part of his skill is that he makes you believe he would be good in a musical. He fools you in that way. I think that's, I do think that is his thing, is he's, he really does not feel like, he does not seem to think like there is any kind of role that he can't. do. And I don't think it's a, he's not lazy about it. He will work at it. He won't just sort of just like lazily take a role. Like he will, to a fault a lot of times, dig into a role and really like work it and work at it and bring the acting, you know, all his acting talent to bear on it

and whatever. And I think sometimes that gets, gets you brick, which I think is, that's definitely a character that you really bore into and you, you know, make sure that everything, that's another one where, like, his vocal patterns are very particular in that movie and whatever. And it's sometimes it works that way. And then sometimes it's, you know, something like Snowden or The Walk where it's a distraction. And it is, you know, it's unavoidably distracting. And, like, I get that it's supposed to, like, this, Zemex's take on this material is very, like, lighthearted and like a fable which i i get the idea of trying to distinguish yourself somewhat

from the like seriousness and the gravitas of man on wire right but it's just so goofy um yes it's really hard to it's really hard to get past the goofiness of it you're totally you're not wrong and like just like we were saying the um like when the walk came out, audiences were tiring with 3D. I think you could probably make the same case for Joseph Gordon-Levett. Oh, yes, absolutely. So it's just another one of those things that the audience decidedly were like, we do not want this, and that's why the movie bombed.

I want to see 500 Days of Summer again. Maybe that'll be one of the things I watch while I'm still in quarantine. I want to see if I still like it. I did like it a lot when it first came out, and then the backlash hit that movie hard. I remember that, like, Zoe Dichannel was at the, like, center of this hurricane of, like, Manic Pixie Dream Girl, we hate her, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And she was able to emerge from that, and I still really, like, I ended up really liking her on New Girl and all this sort of stuff. So it's just like, I want to see if I go back into 500 days of summer, and it's, A, as good as I liked it the first time. or be as bad as its detractor sort of now have placed, you know, that's the box that they've placed it in, which is this sort of like garden state box.

Like, it's kind of built into the movie, right, that it ultimately critiques its lead character and his, like, outlook on women and life and whatever. Yeah. But I don't think it does it as rigorously as the movie thinks it does. No, it ultimately characterizes Summer as, oh, she's more complicated than you think. She's not this idealized figure, yes. But the complication is just like, she's sad. And it's just like, oh, that's interesting. How and why is she said?

And it's just like, oh, she's sad. She's just like, she's just sad. And like, it's just like, do we want to maybe explore that in like a very character-based way? You have this very talented actress playing her. And it's just like, no, she's sad. It also has one of my most, even when I first saw it and liked it, one of my most hated endings of all time, which is Minka Kelly shows up, and as his sort of like, you know, the girl he's going to move on with. And of course, she introduces herself and her name is Autumn and then the credits roll. And I was so angry, just angry. Dumb. Dumb, stupid. Stupid. Don't do that. Don't do that. Women are seasons. Also, it's just like,

like, I get, like, your next girlfriend's going to be winter, fine, but like, what's your next one? How do you close that loop? There is nobody named Spring. There just isn't. I'm sorry. There's just, like, that's just unsustainable. That is an unsustainable quirk, you dumb, dumb decision. But, like, so I want to see that again.

I want to see where I come down in it. Maybe I'll hate it as much as everybody else seems to. But, like, there are parts of that movie that I find very charming. I think Joseph Gordon Levitt singing, Here Comes Your Man at Karaokey, and that movie is very charming. And I will be surprised if I still don't feel that way, watching it again. I also really like him in Inception. I know that's not, like, an actor's movie, but, like...

I got to tell you, I rewatched Inception recently because I thought, you know, maybe we would see Tenet I'm never going to see Tenet I'm never going back to a theater until yeah whatever anyway I rewatched Inception talk about a goofy movie Don't you don't you blaspheme Inception In front of me I really like no I mean I like

Inception a lot but like for whatever reason this rewatch I was like all of this logic is so silly Of course it is. This movie is very silly It's a ride slide down the levels It's a good time But everybody in that cast... I'm not, like, ragging on the movie. It's very silly.

No, you're not wrong. Everybody in that cast, though, even Ellen Page, who gets shit on for that movie, everybody in that cast is really charismatic. And I think a lot of that movie doesn't work if that cast isn't, like, instantly charismatic. And, like, he does a really good job of playing the foil, the sort of just, like, DiCaprio's character will do something. really kind of, like, extra and out there, and they'll take a beat. And, like, there's Joseph Gordon Levitt being like, he does that sometimes.

Just like, oh, oh, you met Mrs. Whatever. Like, you met his wife. And, like, he has a way of delivering exposition in that movie that I find very charming. I know I keep saying charming, which is, like, the thing that you do not feel that way about him. And, like, fine, I get it. Well, because it's just like the whole Joseph Gordon-Levitt aura is a, about, like, projecting with a neon sign that he waxes you in the head with charming. But I don't think he does that in that movie.

I think it's a very easy charm in Inception. Sure, sure, sure, sure. You keep saying sure, and the translation of you saying sure is just, like, wrong. Yeah, exactly. That's fine. We disagree. I did not expect us to agree on the subject of Joseph Gordon-Levin. That is very much a guy I like and a guy you don't.

And, like, that makes sense to me. Yeah. Should we talk a little bit about Zemeckis? We recently did Marwin. Sure did. At the beginning of the year? Yeah. What is time?

I think it was in the, I think it was in December, but, like, who honestly knows? Zemeckis is, like, strangely always, I mean, he's one of those directors that, like, will always be in the conversation. Yes. From the jump. Yes. I was expecting, I mean, there are moments in this movie that are embarrassing. I was expecting, like, a Marwin level of dislike for this movie.

And I kind of wasn't. Like, I maybe like this movie more than anything that he's done since Castaway. Wow. Yeah, I mean, that's not a lot of good movies in there. I'm not there with yet. Allied is good, but kind of boring. What's that? I said Allied is good, but it's kind of boring.

All right is very boring. Very, like. Marwin is a contest. Allied is so much more boring than it has any right to be, like, with those stars and with that concept. I'm just, oh, I was furious at it. Yeah, I mean, so between Castaway and the Walk, though, you're really, again, the trilogy of Uncanny Valley and Flight is what you're saying. Yeah, I suppose that's true. Yeah, Semeckis is a really interesting, his highlights are such...

Highlights. Like, back to the future, who framed Roger Rabbit? Romancing the Stone is so good. Like, it's just such... Remancing the stone is hot. Yes. Oh, like... The Hottest movie ever. The Kathleen Turner-Michael Douglas era is such an underrated mini-era in American filmmaking. They're just like, they're just fantastic together. Death Becomes her, I fucking love. Although, I will say, Lewis Fertel was the one who pointed this out to me first, and I can't deny it, which is once they both take the thing and you get past the scene where they're both, you know, they kill each other

and, you know, Streep throws the javelin through the hole in Goldie Hawn's stomach and all of that. Like once they get past that set piece, the movie does kind of crawl to get to the ending. Some type of conclusion. Yes. Like that is undenialial. It's still really visually interesting though like it's one of his more visually interesting movies because like still at the end of the movie you have like um isabella rossolini going like full mad woman you have the two of them on the roof of that building looking like gargoyles isabella rossolini in death becomes her to the tween age person that i was at the time i probably didn't see this i obviously didn't see that movie in theaters but like i don't think it was too far later that i saw death becomes there. I was probably 13 years old or whatever. I would have seen it immediately after.

Yeah. And the sort of draped jewel top that she's wearing that somehow miraculously doesn't show any nipple whatsoever, but like clearly her breasts are just like on front street, was so fascinating to me as a kid. Where I was just like, it's one of those things where it's just like, I knew I shouldn't be staring at it, even with, you know, the remove of like a screen or whatever. Right. Like, I knew that that's not a thing that I should be looking at it. And I knew that it's just like too sexy for me at that age. But also, I was so fascinated by just like, what am I looking at here?

And like, what am I seeing and not seeing? And of course, there's the jewel. So, like, there's, you know, reflection and shine and all this sort of stuff. And I was just like, it truly does defy many laws of physics. It's just what you're looking at, at that. And it's so perfect for that character, of course, who, like, is all of that as well. I can't imagine it's comfortable. No, not at all.

Absolutely not at all. Like, good Lord, put on a nice comfy turtleneck sweater or something like that. I don't know. I mean, if you're going to live forever, why does well be naked? And also, if you're going to be a living embodiment, like a walking billboard for your, you know, the service you provide, like, that's what you would do, I suppose. It's just, like, put that right out there. I love Death Becomes Her So Much Very Formative movie for Yours Truly

Liesel von Rumen is the first drag queen I've ever seen Also The first time I ever There's a line that references Greta Garbo in that movie Where she talks about the other clients that she's had And what they do eventually to just sort of like Go away from the public eye So that nobody gets suspicious that they're living forever

And she's just like One of my clients simply said she wanted to be alone And I was like, I think I asked somebody who was watching this, was like, what does that mean? And they said, it's about Greta Garbo. And so I, like, looked up and, like, that's who I, like, found out who Greta Garbo was and that whole kind of thing. Amazing. Yeah. Learning things from Robert Semeckis movies.

So, yeah. So Mekis, they pushed his Witches remake back. Could be very curious about that. Speaking of. Well, the original Witches is on Netflix right now. Yeah, it is. I'm going to watch that today. Oh, boy.

The other thing... Talk about formative movies. My favorite Zemeckis movie, though, I will probably say, is Contact. Maybe not his best movie. That is also a movie that, like, is a long... How long is Contact? Contact is one of those movies where I always... It's a two and a half hour movie.

It's a two and a half hour movie. In my head, I always think, and it's because the trailer was this, I always think it starts with her in the middle of the desert. satellite dish field, where she's listening to the headphones, and she hears the little blip or whatever, and that's what starts. And I, for the longest time, even after I had seen the movie once or maybe even twice, in my head, I was just like, oh, yeah, that's that movie that begins with her out in the desert among Zalachish. That happens like 40 minutes into the movie. There's so much movie that happens before that. it's all her first of all it's like young her with jennam alone and then it's like her early days working in uh where the hell are they in the caribbean working on um wherever their office is down there and she runs a foul of tom scarrett and she gets fired and she meets like hippie priest matthew mcconahey and like that whole fucking thing and it takes forever to get to the part but like then once you get to the part where she's she hears the signal

that movie then, like, takes off, like, a shot. And it's what, which is what makes it such a perfect cable television movie. Because cable TV movies, you never catch at the beginning. And so you almost always catch them in progress. And with contact, you're always going to probably miss that first part of the movie, and it's totally fine. Like, you can catch that movie in midstream, and you are maybe better off for it. It's so good. And you will absolutely stick around to the very end, because the end has that amazing congressional scene where the judge from a few good men asks her if she's really asking them if they want to take this all on faith.

And it's so good. I love contact so much. If not death becomes her, I would say probably my favorite Zemeckis is What Lies Beneath. It's a perfect horror movie. It is. It's very good. it's more of what I wish Zemeckis did

because it's like it's very like there's a lot of really cool visual effects stuff in the movie but it's like very simple concept and it's just very well done and you can tell that it's the movie

he made in a break during castaway because it's like it's not like over complicated like the technology stuff that goes into it is very low key Whereas, like, it feels like he's just playing with a toy box anymore, you know? I'm really, I'm of such two minds on directors like Zemeckis, because we see this with so many of these kind of great directors who have the kinds of success that allow them to make the kinds of movies that they want.

And they really have so little sort of like holding them back. And it's less so with people like Spielberg and Scorsese, who I think. we probably should give them more credit for still telling stories more often than not, even though they bring these technological advancements, and obviously they're playing with these huge budgets and whatnot. But they're still telling stories. And I think you get directors like Zemeckis and Peter Jackson and James Cameron. And I'm trying to think of like, even I think at this point kind of Ang Lee,

Although Angley's so unpredictable, you never really know. He still will, you know, pull in his back pocket and pull a lust caution out there or whatever. But these directors who will reach a certain point and decide that like the thing that I'm going to get really into now is pushing the medium forward and specifically the like technological limits of how we film and present movies. And that's what they're going to do. And all of their movies are going to be about. sort of pushing this envelope forward. And on one level, I'm like, good. That's ultimately going to end up filtering down into all the other filmmakers.

And, like, these advancements will eventually, like, make everything better slash more interesting, give everybody a bigger, wider sandbox to play in. And, like, that's all very good. But I don't get any enjoyment out of watching them do it. I don't get the enjoyment out of Avatar or Billy Lynn's long half-time walk or The Walk or, you know what I mean? Or the Battle of the Five Armies or all this kind of stuff. And it's just like happy that you're all working with like frame rate and, you know, digital filmmaking in whatever way. And cool.

But ultimately, I want to watch a story. I want to watch a good story being told And I know people will be like Avatar's a story But like fuck it Yeah well and also I think Avatar is like One of those examples

That actually does kind of use it To a real narrative effect But it's such a bad story It is Sure I should rewatch Avatar I will not Yeah

To like talk about visual effects A little bit this year This was the thing that kept the walk in any type of Oscar conversation for a long time because it made the visual effects shortlist and it didn't eventually get nominated. But to your point about just like you want to see it these visual effects serving a story in a really interesting way, this is the really cool year that ex machina won visual effects. satisfying so opposite huge things like Fury Road, the Martian, Force

Awakens, not the fracking symbol, the revenant I, it's funny because you mentioned that the walk reminded me that the walk didn't get a visual effects nomination and my initial reaction was just like well come on like as bad as the movie was it should have and then you look at that set of nominees

and I guess like I mean the Martians not exactly like pushing the envelope or anything like that right but like ex machina fury road force awakens and like i'll even give it to the revenant like it's tough to bear it's tough to yeah sure yeah it's tough to argue with that field it's tough to be like well for a movie that came and gone from theaters exactly exactly 2015 Oscars a real bag and a half, aren't they? It's just like, it's so, it's fascinating on multiple levels. It's fascinating that Mad Max Fury Road. It's still fascinating to me that Mad Max Fury Road did as well as it did

that whole award season. Like, not that it doesn't deserve it because it truly does, but like, what a story. And the fact that that Oscars went from Fury Road winning everything to then the Revenant winning a couple of the really key, like mid-seremony ones, like cinematography, and ultimately director, and then Spotlight just, like, yanking it away. Book ended the ceremony. Right, first and last. And so satisfyingly so. Like, honestly, I was just like, I fucking love Spotlight.

But that was also the year of the all-white acting nominees. And, like, in these really kind of bizarre ways where it's, like, Idris Elba gets nominated for everything but supporting actor. And, like, Michael B. Jordan gives such a universally acclaimed performance in creed in a wildly weak best actor year and doesn't get nominated, even though Stallone does. Yeah, this best actor lineup blows. There's so much of this, of this Oscar year that is bizarre in, like, good and terrible ways. And it's, you know, the best song category that year is the year that Sam Smith wins for the bad. Bond song from the Bad Bond movie.

Like, it's just across the board, so many wild things. Morricone wins original score for the Hateful Eight, a movie that I really despise. The Amy Winehouse documentary wins best documentary, which was, okay, so, all right, this is a good segue. Because the Amy documentary was a movie

in a strong year for documentaries. That was the year of The Look of Silence, the Joshua Oppenheimer movie. That was the year of Carteland, which is really good. But Amy wins everything that year. And as did, that was the trajectory of Man on Wire. And truly, we're sort of going roundabout here. But like, when you talk about, like, we talk about like, why did a movie have Oscar buzz? And you can talk about some mechis all you want. Former Oscar winner, obviously all of his movies are going to have some kind of Oscar buzz. You can talk about Joseph Gordon Levitt. But like, the walk. had Oscar Buzz, primarily because Man on Wire was such a huge Oscar favorite. Like, that movie won every single possible documentary award from critics, from precursors, from whatever. Everybody was on board for Man on Wire. And it really, you just sort of expected that the walk was going to draft off of that pretty easily. And it's a good documentary.

but I remember even at the time people being like, why is this the one that's winning everything? Yeah. Because I feel like that was a really, wasn't that the year of, um, that wasn't the year of Exit Through the Gift Shop, right? That was 2010.

No, Exit Through the Gift Shop is older. Is older? No, Exit Through the Gift Shop is 2010. And Man on Wire is 2008. Yeah, it's not, it's older than 2015, I mean. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I mean like the 2008 documentary year. Um, Oh, it's interesting. Maybe. So it's co-nominees that year where the Werner Herzog movie encounters at the end of the world,

which I did see in theaters. And that's one of the movies. It's a very good movie. It's about sort of like Antarctic deep sea exploration or whatever. But it's one of those movies where like the Werner Herzog voiceover becomes very funny, where just like every single thing is just like, observe this thing. Now I'm doing French. I can't do a Werner Herzog accent.

I can't do a Werner-Hurzog accent. I can't either. It's a flaw. But every single thing is just like... You just want to listen to him say science words all day long. It's science words. Yes. It's science words, but also every single sentiment ends up as,

and one day we will all be destroyed by the end of the planet. Like that kind of thing, it's just like every single thing becomes this just like existential despair. It's so great. The other big documentary, though, that year was Trouble the Water, which I think that was a movie that a lot of people were like, can't this movie get something? That was the post-Hurricane Katrina documentary. But no, Man on Wire wins everything.

Directed by James Marsh, who went on to direct the theory of everything. And also, I still can't believe this movie actually got released. Do you remember? You didn't see The Mercy. you, right? Okay, I know what this is, but I can't think of it. What is that? 2017, James Marsh directed it.

It's the sailboat around the world movie with Colin Firth and Rachel Weiss. Screenplay by Scott Z. Burns, directed by James Marsh, like, right after the theory of everything. I remember, like, having this on my little spreadsheet of, like, movies to look. forward to. I was so... Oh, right. Yes, I know this by the poster. I kept expecting it to play like, um, uh, TIF. I think it was, because I think it just was like hanging around in a can for like over a year. And... Or it's like the type of thing that shows up at Tribeca. Sure, but it didn't even do that. But then I was just like, I kept waiting for it to like finally

show up at a festival or like it released. And then the next thing I know is, I was like, oh, was that released two years ago, and I just never knew it, and it just got such an inauspicious release. But, like, Colin Firth, post Oscar, Rachel Weiss, Oscar winner, James Marsh, Post Theory of Everything, like, it's so bizarre that it just got nothing. Maybe it's terrible. Oh, I mean, I'm sure it's terrible. But I was like, oh, this is, and again, this is why we do this podcast, these movies that look pristine on paper. It's just like it's got everything going for it. based on a true story

you know overcoming adversity like this was in the wake of all is lost even though all is lost didn't get the Oscar nomination but like is all lost well it was for the mercy apparently so yeah man on wire huge

huge uh Oscar winner where were you on that movie I'm probably the same exact feeling that you were just expressing of like, okay, this is fine, but not, like, steamrolling good, you know? Right.

I mean, compared to the walk, it's at least, you know, you understand. There's an internal... Philopeteet, yeah. Yeah, internal momentum to it. Right, yeah. There's also something about, I mean, again, we, I think that the visual effects are impressive, but it's also, like, rose-tinned glasses in, like, the New York City skyline. Like, obviously, there's a sentimental.

air to the movie because of the Twin Towers and 9-11. Right. But the actual photos that they use in Man of Wire are way more like... When he's just this like spec from the ground, like that kind of a thing. Oh yeah. It's like the poster of that movie is this very sort of, it's got to be a helicopter shot of him on the wire in between the towers. And he looks so small. You can like barely tell that it's a human being.

and it's really effective, honestly. Yeah, it's a little bit more like naturalistically effective of like the kind of achievement that he did and like how terrifying it is versus like this movie that makes it feel a little plastic. I'm going to bring up an element of this movie that I'm going to want to hear you speak on because I can't. And that is the bird. Oh my god I forgot about the bird Don't don't forget about the bird Or else where history is condemned to repeat it

Like we have to we have to remember So stupid It is the worst CGI It is he's literally laying on A on the wire Which kill me now Yep Awful

And then a bird flies up and like Looks him in the eye And it's such a close-up, and the bird is like sub-Hitchcockian levels. Like, in the, like, many decades since the birds, we apparently have not progressed past the way of being able to shoot a bird in close-up without it looking like it's made of fucking Plato. It looks so dumb.

Maybe the bird is the reason why this didn't get the visual effects nomination. Honestly, it would deserve it. It's also at the point, too, where he's like. like going back and forth several times. We don't need this wimsy at this point. We love that. Yeah. But it's just like, get off that wire.

Get it over with. Don't bring in a fucking bird at this point. Yep. Yep. No, every single time he decided to take a knee on the wire or to kneel on the pole that he's using for balance so that he literally, like, both of his knees are on the pole. So he's like, not even on the wire at that point.

I was just like, I hate this. I hate watching this. I hate the feeling that I have when watching this. Please stop everything you're doing. Yeah. Final thoughts? Any kind of, the bird was sort of my, I was sort of going through my notes. And I think that's most everything.

Oh, no. He walked up to the roof of the tower that first time. the part where he sees the door open and he scoots into the little back service staircase or whatever and then the next thing we see he's like emerging at the roof of the tower fresh as a daisy and just like

I have had friends who have had like fourth fifth floor walkups where I've like no let's just meet at a place like I'm just not gonna I let's needed a restaurant or somewhere. I'm not going to do that. I have never been faced with this choice, but I always think about it living in New York. I'm like, what if I started dating

somebody and it turned out they had like a fifth floor walk up? Like, what would that choice be? Because that is how much I fucking hate climbing stairs. And that's five stories. That is not walking up the entire tower of the World Trade Center. And it's just like, you're not even going to, like, not even going to have a seat, not even going to take a break, no, like, fuck that. I hate that so much. Maybe he shouldn't be walking wires and he should climb a wire

to not have to go up the stairs. Indeed. Bird is bad. Bird is bad. Dialect is bad. All of these things. I feel like I've maybe talked myself into liking the movie less than I thought I did when it was

done, but I still did kind of enjoy this movie. Sometimes Sometimes that's an accomplishment. When you talk about a movie and it's just sort of like, wait, I'm finding all these flaws in it. And yet you undeniably had in the moment a great experience. That's like that's an achievement too. You know what I mean? That much like this fucking accomplishment by this egomaniacal lunatic, it defies all logic of why it should be and it should work.

And yet for you it worked. Well, the wire sequences, it's good. minus the bird That's the other thing is the bird is such an invasion of the one part of the movie that really works

where I'm just like, no! Like, put the bird in a bad part of the movie. Like, I don't like that. Yeah. All right. The walk. Oh, I wanted to briefly

go into the awards tab for the walk because I feel like I saw something interesting. It did get broadcast film critics nomination for visual effects I got some critics

prize like runner-up stuff for visual effects won the golden satellite so you know not too bad I thought there was I guess I thought there was something else in there but apparently not oh it did get a nomination from online film and television association for best movie

poster and that is one thing I wanted to up, which is the poster for this movie is great. The, you know, ground view straight up the tower is great. The teaser trailer, the regular trailer for this movie is kind of like whatever, but the teaser trailer, which is you're following that shot that goes right up the building from the ground and like, it's going and going and going, and you get the sense of just how high this tower is. And in the teaser, as it's doing that, there's like block text that is rushing at you where

it's just like, from director of Robert Semeckis, the director of, and then it's like, back to the future, and Forrest Gump and whatever, and flight. And then finally you get to the top, and it's just wordless Joseph Gordon-Levett walking out on that steel girder, that rusty fucking steel girder, and sort of like, like shakes for a moment, and you sort of, I remember the audience that I saw that teaser with sort of like gasped for a second and then he you know goes on one leg and kind of whatever pirouettes uh into the thin air or whatever um is a really really good teaser it's a it's like everything that is best about that movie condensed into a very sort of like brief

and punchy uh teaser and i wish that we never got an actual trailer because the trailer sort of demystifies by like by its function broke the spell yeah yeah kind of because you heard josecorden levitt speak yeah i mean yeah i do like him but i can't deny he is not good in this movie should we go on to the i mdb game yeah let's tell us tell the children every week we end our episodes with the i m tv game where we challenge each other with an actor or actress to try to guess the top four titles that IMDB says they are most known for. If any of these titles are television or voiceover work, we mentioned that up front. After two wrong guesses, we get the remaining titles release years as a clue.

If that's not enough, it just becomes a free for all of hints. And you have to, how you say, walk the wire. Yes, if you don't get it after a certain number of guesses, you have to walk the wire. Christopher, would you like to give or guess first? I will give first, I think. All right. All right. So we mentioned this is a very paltry, not very good best actor lineup.

The winner, notedly, famously. It's Leonardo DiCaprio, so I'm going easy on you this week and giving you Leonardo DiCaprio. I mean, you say going easy, and yet he's one of those actors who have had so many signature movies that something's going to miss. If you say so. No, I do.

He has at least five iconic roles. You know what I mean? He's been around a long bit. Lots of Oscar nominations. Lots of Oscar nominations. Although the first one I will guess is iconically not an Oscar nomination for him,

but it's got to be Titanic. Titanic. Titanic is in there. I don't love this film or performance, certainly not as much as most people do, but I'm going to say the Wolf of Wall Street. Yes, Wolf of Wall Street. All right, those are the slam dunks. Now it's IMDB usually is pretty reliable for the big Oscar nominations and wins.

So I'm going to say the Revenant. No. See, this is where it gets interesting. Yeah, yeah, usually the Oscar winning performance is on there. I think it makes sense for DiCaprio. A, people don't like that movie. B, like... He's got a lot of competition.

There's just more famous stuff than that movie. Like, that movie fully doesn't exist anymore. Yeah, it's funny, but you're right. Inception. Inception. Okay. All right. Okay. You have one more. You only have one wrong guess. I feel like it's another Scorsese.

Scorchise. Scorchise. I'm flipping a coin at the moment between Shutter Island and Gangs of New York, and I'm going to say Shutter Island. Incorrect. Fuck, okay. Well, that's too incorrect.

Shutter Island is great. I love that. I love his performance, but your year is 2006. He is a duly appointed federal marshal. Okay. Oh, I was right about Scorsese. I was just wrong about the film. It's the departed. It is the depadid. It's not Blood Diamond. It is, in fact, the Departed. What if it was Blood Diamond? How awful would that be? I would truly have to say, bling bang to that list if he was on there for Blood Diamond. Yeah. The audacity of you reminding me of the line, bling bang. I'm always going to do it. What else? What else am I going to say when the movie Blood Diamond comes up. Like, what a great Jennifer Connolly performance? No, I'm going to say bling-bang.

All right. DiCaprio. God, I can't believe I had to go to hints for DeCaprio. That's so embarrassing. I'm taking it easy on you, he says. Exposing your ignorance is what you mean. All right. As we've mentioned before, this is not the first Robert Zemeckis film we have done on this podcast. We covered Welcome to Marwin before. one of the stars of Welcome to Marwin, who we have never done on the IMDB game before, is Ms. Leslie Mann. So, Chris, give me Leslie Man. I'm going to say blockers? Nope. Okay.

She's very good in blockers, blockers is very good. Wonderful in blockers. Yes, knocked up. Knocked up, indeed. This is 40. Yes, two entries for playing the same person. knocked up and this is 40 you got them um this is 40 by the way excruciating i saw a little bit of that again it was on one of the cable channels i never actually saw it it is horrible it is

absolutely who was i texting was it maybe you where i was like casting um jason seagull as the person, like, the hot, like, canonically hot personal trainer who is, like, functions in the movie is to, like, draw her eye away from her husband. And casting that is Jason Siegel for as handsome as, like, Jason Siegel is handsome, but, like, that is the most egregious bit of friend casting in a movie. I have maybe ever seen this, like, who is our epitome of hotness character? We literally are the biggest filmmaker in, like, biggest popular filmmaker in America. We could have our pick of anybody, who are we going to choose? We're just going to choose our friend, Jason Siegel. It's just like, all right, you're out of control.

And that is truly, Judd Apatow is out of control, and this is 40. It is the most navel-gazing thing you've ever going to see in your entire life. And yet, there is one good scene with Leslie Mann and Megan Fox out of the club dancing to Nicky Minaj. And it's the only thing that I will stand by in that movie. Fantastic. Anyway, you're two for three. I don't. I hope that the 40-year-old Virgin is in there, or I hope that it's not in there.

And she's only got the one scene, so I'm not going to guess that just yet. I also don't think she's in it for the bling ring. I'm going to say the cable guy? It's a good guess, but it's not the cable guy. Okay. She's going to be like third building cable. So you have years now. Your two missing years are 1997 and 2014.

Okay. 97's got to be Georgia the Jungle. It is. I can't believe you remember that she's in Georgia of the Jungle. I like that movie. I've never seen it. I never think about it. It's stupid.

It is certainly a key text in the Brendan Fraser hot fucking piece of man 90s, like story that we were all told. It's a key hot Brennan Fraser. Is it, because I'm trying to think of things that she's like higher build in. Is it the Cameron Diaz movie with a generic title? I forget what it is. That's what it is. This is one of Cameron Diaz's last movies. Yeah, it is.

It's horrifyingly, sadly, one of Cameron Diaz's last movies. It is Cameron Diaz and Leslie Mann and who's the third. Do you remember who the third is? Not Brooklyn Decker, even though it's basically the same kind of template as Brooklyn Decker. It's model. Sports Illustrated

Why do I want to keep saying G.G. Hadid. It's Kate Upton. It's Kate Upton. It is Cameron Diaz's third last movie. She only made two feature films that were released after this.

Oh, boy. Do you want to take a guess? Annie. Annie is her last. Annie is the last movie, Cameron Diaz. were made. It's so sad. And that's not the year of the counselor, is it? No, the counselor was 2013.

Her last three films are all 2014. So the other woman, which is the title you couldn't come up with, was April of 2014. Annie is November or December, 2014? I can't remember. December, Christmas movie. And then this one that you're not thinking of, was like July, July of 2014. Mainstream comedy,

starring one of a name I literally just mentioned a few minutes ago. Oh, it's sex tape. Sex tape with Jason Siegel, a movie that discovered the cloud and was very affrightened of it. Yeah. It's a weird for, for Leslie Mann. That's why I selected it, because Knocked Up and This is 40 make a ton of sense,

and then Georgia with the jungle and the other woman kind of don't at all. Disney Plus, I bet that's a Disney Plus thing. People are looking up George of the Jungle. That's interesting. I love that you brought up her... Is that on Disney Plus? Am I? I...

I mean, it's a Disney movie, right? Isn't it? Yeah? Yeah? No, let me look at the poster and see if there's the telltale little... Maybe not. Like a Tri-Star movie? All right.

Anyway. No, I'm going to look it up. deserve to know, our listeners deserve to know whether George of the fucking jungle is a Disney movie or not. Like Hollywood Studios? Yeah, Walt Disney Pictures. Fantastic. Yeah. All right.

It's a good episode, Chris. Great episode. Zawak. That's our episode. If you want more of ThisHad Oscar Buzz, you can check up the Tumblr at this had oscarbuzz.com. You should also follow our Twitter account at had underscore Oscar underscore Buzz. Chris, where can the listeners find you and your how you say stuff. You can find me on

Twitter. Twitter, not Twitter. Krispy File, also in letterbox under the same name. Yeah, I'm on Twitter at Joe Reed, spelled R-E-I-D. I'm also on letterboxed as Joe Reid spelled the exact same way. We would like to thank Kyle Cummings for his fantastic artwork and Dave Gonzalez

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Chantal! Take my little friend to immigration. You will find your family. there. Everyone goes through immigration. I would take you there myself, but then I would never finish my statue. And me, you said never. Oh, so I did. Thank you.