This Had Oscar Buzz - 107 – Prime

Episode Date: August 17, 2020

We’re back to discussing Meryl Streep (for the SIXTH time!) this episode for a film starring the legend opposite an actress who was overlooked for a defining work. After Oscar ignored the hyperviolent Kill Bill films and its iconic star, Uma Thurman seemed poised for future Oscar success. When she was cast opposite Streep for … Continue reading "107 – Prime"

Uh-oh, wrong house. No, the right house. I didn't get that! We want to talk to Marilyn Hacks. I'm from Canada, Water. It's Dr. Lisa Metzger's job To listen He's so young

And He's 10 years different He could be my brother If he were one year younger He could be your brother Enjoy your life You deserve this But hell, I deserve this

As a mother It's her job to speak her mind I've been dating someone What? No, she's not Jewish Mom, I'm not trying to kill you I'm out of your mind Drop it now

It's only going to end badly. But the two most important roles in her life are about to collide. Oh my God. Hello and welcome to the This Had Oscar Buzz podcast, the only podcast frolicing naked under the watchful eye of the Godiva Chocolatiers. Every week on This Had Oscar Buzz will be talking about a different movie that once upon a time had Lofty Academy Award aspirations, but for some reason or another, it all went wrong.

The Oscar hopes died, and we are here to perform the autopsy. I'm your host, Joe Reed. I am here as always with the 23-year-old. old fuck boy to my 37-year-old hag, Chris Foggle. Hello, Chris. I will absolutely take that. I am positive. It's the only time I've ever been referred to as a fuck boy. Take it and run. It's one of the last times I'll ever be referred to was 37. I'll tell you that much for sure. Um, well, uh, I, uh, yeah, I am, uh, sure. We are fine with this dynamic. We are aging ever rapidly in quarantine. Right. Yeah, exactly. Hurdling ever forward into an uncertain,

future. That is for sure. Listeners, tell Joseph Reed, happy birthday. It's his birthday this birthday this week. Oh, God, when this comes out. Yeah, it sure is. Oh, boy. Yeah. Yeah, my indeterminate birthday. Yes, again, one year older. One year older and several more podcasts under my belt since the last one. So, yeah. This movie, Chris, we sure picked a movie. We sure picked a movie that exists as you watch it, perhaps does not exist, as you do not watch it. Had you ever seen this one before? I had, and I didn't like it then, and I don't like it now.

My opinion has changed on it somewhat. I watched it at the time, because of course it's a Meryl Street movie. My memories of it were, me. I was sort of like, oh, it's fine, it's middle of the road, it's forgettable. I don't really remember a ton about it except for Meryl in her Rita Skeeter glasses and wig sort of thing.

Her wooden bead necklaces? Right. Because she's playing a therapist. She can't be a therapist if she doesn't have a wooden beaded necklace. It only makes sense. I didn't remember, like, you know, I remembered at least

like Brian Greenberg being a complete snack, but like that's really only kind of what I remembered about the movie. And then watching it again, I was like, oh, this is a good deal worse than they're called. Yeah. And it's too bad. I was sort of, with these movies, we don't, for a lot of them at least, we don't pick them sort of like sharpening our knives and sort of going in. I think with a lot of these movies that either I've forgotten about or that I've never seen before, my hope is that I find, you know, I uncover a little diamond in the rough. I sort of, you know, find something that I can champion a little bit.

And this was not that. That does happen, even with the same performer, like I think of an episode like Ricky in the Flash with Meryl Streep where, like, I definitely revisited that and liked it a lot more. This I liked a lot less. I feel like I remember being, just like you, very meh, about this movie. And we try not to talk about the movie until we're on mic together, but I definitely text you randomly the other day.

this racist-ass, homophobic-ass movie or something to that extent. You did, and I hadn't re-watched it at that point, and I was, I thought you were talking about something else, because I'm like, I don't remember Prime even, like, approaching that kind of stuff, and then watching it again, I was just like, oh, it's very casual about it, but, like, yeah, yeah, it's a lot broier a movie than I would, than I, A, remembered, and be, then you would expect for a Meryl Streep Ouma Thurman movie. And I do have some theories about that. I definitely have theories about it, too, and we won't get it too deep into it ahead of the

60-second plot description. But I think it's like you go into this movie expecting a Meryl Streep Oma Thurman movie, but it's actually a Brian Greenberg movie. It's, and yes, and it's not even a Brian Greenberg movie. It's a Ben Younger movie. Like, this is the thing is, like, it's, my, my main takeaway from this movie seeing it the second time is this feels like a movie that sort of fell ass backwards into two A-list actors in its leads. And the ideal version of this movie. Failed upwards.

Yeah, it just sort of like, the ideal, the sort of platonic ideal of this movie is a sort of middle of the road. not necessarily like unknown performers, but like maybe character actor in the Merrill role and maybe sort of like somebody who's, you know, not just been in both Kill Bill movies as the female lead. But what it felt like to me was, did you ever, have you seen the Jennifer Westfeld movies? Yes. Uh, kissing Jessica Stein.

I, uh, I will, uh, defend them. They are imperfect. I, they are imperfect. But see, this is the thing is this movie reminded me of that genre of movie. Jennifer Westfeld wrote Kissing Jessica Stein and I read the best version of this movie has like everybody that was involved with kissing Jessica Stein. The best version of this movie is Ira and Abby, which is the movie that she made with Chris Messina. And it has somewhat of the same themes, but like this is a subgenre that I tend to give a lot of leeway to, which is sort of modest, very screenwritery, New York. relationship

comedies, right? And I love this genre. I will sort of like cuddle up with this genre. I think it depends on a few factors that Prime falls short in. One of them primarily being this is a genre that really depends on you

liking the characters a lot. Because you need to give, you need to sort of like stick with them through their kind of personality defects. and the twists and turns of the story and whatnot. And the tone needs to be like cozy and comfortable, the type of thing that you can just like have smooth brain on the sofa. Likeable, just a likable romantic comedy that, at least for me,

as I texted you yesterday, it makes me feel so homesick for New York watching this because it is like just in a very low-key way. It's not one of those just like, the city is a character. But like, just watching them line up at Cinema Village and watching them line up at Magnolia and all this sort of stuff. I'm like, uh-uh. But it really, really hinges on likability.

And I think that's one of the things that Jennifer West felt for as sort of aggressively, not necessarily quirky, but neurotic, I guess, as her characters tend to be, I find them very likable. And that's why I can really, like, dive into a movie like kissing Jessica Stein or Ira and Abby. and this movie just on a deep fundamental level, despite having performers I really love in the three leads, including Brian Greenberg, who I've really liked in other things.

I just don't like any. I know Brian Greenberg's one of those actors that is made to divide us. You don't like boys who look like that. I should like a Brian Greenberg. But Brian Greenberg, my problem with Brian Greenberg is I have such facial blindness to him. He looks like about four different actors. He reminded me of John Foster.

Shout out to our door on the floor. It kind of does. Yeah. But as written, these characters are so completely devoid of any kind of qualities that would make you like them. Like, the best of them is Uma Thurman's character, who is, like, a blank. And, like, it's really, like, I, it takes a lot for me to not fundamentally like a Meryl Street character. And this movie did it. And then the side characters...

I don't just like her character, but I just don't think she's miscast. I don't think there was anything to be. like about her. And then like, and then the side characters are all like demon from hell monsters to a person. Maybe Annie Parisi is like, escapes this. But it's, it just completely miscalculates what a movie like this needs. And then when I saw that it was from a writer-director whose only other two movies are boiler room and, uh, bleed for this, the Miles Teller boxing movie. Exactly. The person you want writing and directing a romantic comedy. I was like, oh, a lot of makes sense now, because this is not a movie that is somebody being like, I'm going to

write a romantic comedy with Meryl Streep and Numa Thurman in it. It is, I'm going to write a movie about a 23-year-old who hooks up with a super hot divorcee and all cast. It turned out his mom is pissed about it. Right, exactly. And I mean, whatever, the temptation to read things into writer-directors in this way, like I'm sure Ben Younger has every chance of being a perfectly fine person. But like it's challenging specifically for this movie because like it's so

watching this movie to me it felt so obvious that like the movie the script wanted Brian Greenberg's character to be the protagonist of the movie. But like there was this conscious decision to make it a romantic comedy

that focuses on these two women but really doesn't in any substantial way. Like, Meryl Streep's barely in this movie. Right. Right. But because you've now cast Meryl Streep, she becomes... It's a Meryl Street movie. Right. You've now gotten yourself into a boat where you've made a Meryl Street movie that has certain expectations, and this movie does not meet them. Yeah. We'll talk about their... Her screen chemistry with Uma and, like,

Uma in this role as we get into it, too, because there's, like, a reason that it's off. Yeah. And also, in terms of the Oscar buzz of it all, this movie could not have come at a point where it would, like, this came at the exact point in history where it would have the highest expectations for Oscar buzz, because it's right after Uma makes both Kill Bill movies, both of which she is Golden Globe nominated for and doesn't get Oscar nominations. And I think everybody who sort of followed things were like, well, it'd be nice if Uma were in the kind of movie that the Academy would even think about, you know, nominating. And now that, you know, now she's in this. Or if she's not in a movie where she's killing people with swords. Right. Oscar might go for it.

Right. Especially opposite Oscar's favorite, you know, daughter, Meryl Streep. And then Streep is also, as we'll discuss, in the middle of this, like, kind of career renaissance, which began with, I would say, adaptation and the hours, both in 2002, where by the late 90s, I think Merrill Fatigue had really set in with, I think, music of the heart and whatnot. And all of a sudden now, she's making these really exciting films. She does adaptation and the hours and then Angels in America, back to back to back. And I think she's sort of ascending again. And so the expectations on this one were so out of whack for what this movie is. Like, it's so

funny to think back in retrospect that like we were like oh get ready for it merrill's got prime coming in october oma and merrill you know and maybe the only way that you could have avoided because especially these two actresses would either not cast those actresses because this is not in any way an oscar movie on paper or like this movie gets released in like march or something right it didn't it got released in the fall late october yeah yeah prime prime uh it's ironically enough prime territory for Oscar movies. Why is this movie called prime

Christopher? Tell me. According to IMDB, it's because the most possible stupid reason you could imagine both of the love interests at the age they are at when they date each other is a prime number.

Oh, are prime numbers? Jesus, age. Oh, is it their sexual prime? I have no idea. I have no idea. It's not a good reason. best I could come up with. I'm like, oh, is it because, like, was there a line that was cut in the script where, like, gross John Abraham's friend character talks to Greenberg's character about how, you know, because, of course, the adage, I guess, is that men are in their sexual

primes in their early 20s, and women are in their 30s or whatever. And, like, who knows what kind of bunk science that actually is. But it's one of those things that you see repeated in things like bad romantic comedies. And that's the only thing I could think of for why this movie was called prime. But it's never, like, that kind of concept is never brought up in the actual movie itself. I was so confused.

Prime number fits this movie for how dumb of a reason that would be that this is what that is. Yeah, it just feels like, when you watch the movie, it feels like a very weird title that doesn't make any sense. Yeah, it's true.

All right, do we want to get to the other side of this plot description so we can actually talk about this movie in specific? I mean, I think this would be the fastest we've ever gotten there. Listeners are like fist pumping in the air. They're so proud of us. Do you think they listen to us and are like, when are they going to do it? When are they going to get to the plot description? Is that like the opening credits of a show?

Yeah, like, you know when it's really fucking cool in a movie that it's like, oh, I've been watching this for 20 minutes and now there's credits. A friend of mine compared it to, The Good Fight. Do you watch The Good Fight? No. The Good Fight, one of the many reasons why it's a phenomenal show, but it is like... I'll watch it. I'll watch it. It's insane and chaotic in the best ways, and one of the ways that it is, is it will fully wait, like, 20 minutes into an episode before it'll haul out the opening credits. And so, Kevin O'Keefe texted me that the one time. It's just like, you've really gotten

good fight in terms of your 60-second plot description coming so late into... A friend of former guest, Kevin O'Keefe. Thank you for reading us. That's what's had that on my mind. I was like, are we pushing the envelope so far on this? I just like, I tend to think that we're probably, usually people have not seen some of these movies, or sometimes hopefully they have not seen these movies, as we learned last week. That, yeah, it just sounds like, to me, it seems like it's probably a myasma until we get into it.

So let's get into it for this movie, relatively, Simple. Yeah, we're talking about the 2005 film Prime, written and directed by Ben Younger, starring Merrill Streep, Uma Thurman, Brian Greenberg, John Abrams, Annie Parisi, Zach Orth, other various character actors, premiered October 28th, 2005. That's it. Chris, do you want to... How dare you not mention Doris Black, the legend Doris Black, as Merrill Streep's mother? Yes, no, that's true. And what's his face from the The Sopranos, the guy who plays Hesha on the Sopranos is the grandfather. It's true. Doris Black, one of my favorite people in the movie Tutsi. I love her every time she's on screen. Is she the one who says when they're like, how far do you want the camera to pull back?

And she says, how about Cleveland? Yes. Right? That is her. That's a good line. Except I don't think, does she say that or does Harvey Corman say that? Or not Harvey Corman. I'd like to make a look a little more attractive.

How far can you pull back? What do you feel about Cleveland? Anyway. Anyway, we're here to talk about Prime. We are here to talk about Prime. We'll have plenty of time to talk about Doris Black. Obviously, we will. We have currently 60 seconds on the clock, and I will start when you are ready. Oh, sure. All right, and go. All right, Rafi, played by Uma Thurman, is a 37-year-old, very, very recent divorcee. Merrill Streep is her therapist. She has a really great therapist. Like, don't we all envy that? Anyway, she suddenly starts dating Brian Greenberg, who is a 23-year-old loser and kind of artist.

He still lives with his grandparents and his parents. He's a fuck boy, right? But anyway, she has sex with the fuck boy, and then she falls in love with the fuck boy, and then they start dating. But, oh, shit, David is Merrill Streep's son, and Merrill Streep figures it out before anybody else figures it out. But she keeps seeing Uma Thurman, and then eventually she tells her. and then they break up, and then she also breaks up with her therapist, all of this, and then she misses her,

but then she goes back to David, and then they kind of like work it out for a hot minute, and then because she wants a baby, he ends up leaving her, and then it's like, oh, but they still loved each other and they can look back on it fondly, and that's the end of the movie?

Yeah, that's the end of the movie. They get back together and break up so many times in a way that feels realistic and true to life, and like that I appreciated about it, but it got very tedious in the movie for a couple you never wanted to be together to begin with. At the very least,

I can say it does the thing that I want probably 65% of romantic comedies to do, which is it ends with them not together. And I don't know what that is about my psyche. This one was very much like a thank God they're not together. Yes. Not necessarily like satisfying. Like the satisfying thing in movies would be like

bittersweet. They don't end up together. No, right. This is like dodged a bullet. But still, but still, I was... This is like dodged a firing squad. Up until the very last second, I was really worried that she was going to get up out of her seat in that restaurant when he's peering in at her from outside, that she was going to go, like, be with him. And I was just like, okay, it's good that that didn't happen. But...

See, some of this, though, is what makes me like Meryl's character in this movie. because, like, she's the one who actually, like, goes through an interesting character arc because she's very against it. Like, she wants her son to be with a Jewish woman to carry on the family faith. So she's very skeptical. And then, of course, like, she's getting all of these sexual details in the therapy sessions with Rafi. And, like, that's, like, icking her out more. But, like, she ends up, like, seeing that her son is happy and kind of growing up a little bit.

And, like, she tries to be as supportive as possible. And, like, when David eventually takes Rafi to meet the family, like, the scenes of her and Rafi together, I thought were, like, really interesting and not what you expect of the character. That's, like, incredibly warm to her and, like, talking to her. And meanwhile, Uma Thurman is crying and saying, like, I've missed you so much, all of this. And they get to have, like, what feels like the first real conversation between. two real people in the whole movie. Yeah. That is absolutely the best scene of the movie, and it's the best thing about the movie,

which is that it treats their therapist-patient relationship as more than just the plot obstacle that it is, and it takes it seriously, and it allows them... Remember, my whole thing, one of my big problems with a movie like Crazy Stupid Love, which we covered ages ago, on the... this podcast was like it once once the plot obstacle was revealed and whatever it didn't deal with the fallout of that in any real way it didn't deal with Emma Stone and her relationship with her father in any way where it's like oh you've been you know friends with this guy I've been seeing and he's been weirdly like grooming you to be a like ladies man or whatever and all of

these things that you were just like these people have relationships like there would be fallout to this beyond just the moment where everybody finds out and the thing that prime does that that movie does not is it treats the revelation as less important as what the relationship between those two characters is so like good on prime for that i mean i do think the best version of the of what this movie could be is the one that focuses on that and it's not really like making a scene about it because like even Uma and Merrill's like chemistry is so

off in this movie and like those their scenes together are so off like it feels like the showcases the set pieces are when they actually bring these two actresses together or should be and like that's what like that's what everybody showed up to see in this movie and the movie is kind of

ho-hum about it and like again I think the movie is trying to make the dude the main character in this movie and we just don't care Right. No, it's definitely a movie that comes to the story from his perspective. And that's silly. But it does seem to be indicative of the fact that it's written by somebody who shares certain biographical details with Brian Greenberg. Mm-hmm. So. But yet... I also just think we've seen that movie, the one that centers on like a choice. 23-year-old bro, like, growing up just a tiny bit and treating it like it's some mountainous, you know, achievement that he has done by, like, painting his walls.

Right. And we haven't really seen the movie that's, like, a romantic comedy, but really about the patient therapist's relationship and, like, that type of connection. Right. So, like, it's all the more frustrating because nothing about this dude is interesting. No, it's really true. He's this sort of like he's vaguely an artist. He, even just like the way that their romantic relationship rolls out, like it would have been a better movie to me if it was more upfront about the fact that like

Rafi is seeing this younger guy for like, it does a good job of sort of like giving her rationale of just like, look, he's 23 and he can go all day. and I'm, you know, experiencing this sort of, like, renewed, sort of, like, you know, sexual experience with this guy and everything, and everything is exciting and young and whatever. But ultimately, it's foolish and can't last and all this. Like, if it was all of that through her perspective only, I think that would have been fine. I think because the fact that we're now supposed to deal with this kind of, kind of, it's tough to say, I feel bad saying, like, he should be more of an object

in this movie, but, like, he should maybe be a little less of a subject. Yeah, I mean, he should be a supporting character, because it's like, even the, even his relationship with his mother is so, like, flat and not really developed in an interesting way, because you have this whole religious conversation, but you, you almost never see him interacting with it in any way, like, it doesn't, to the point where you just want him to say, look, I'm not that religious to his parents. Or have the movie show... He has nothing to do with it.

Like, the whole religious aspect in terms of his character is just his mom wants him to date a Jewish girl. Yeah. Right. Or at least, like, show him in the context of his Judaism at all. Like, whether, like, does... Like, is Friday Night's Seder, like, a thing that does anything for him? Do you know what I mean? Does his relationship with his family?

like does relationship it's neither painted here nor there because like I would have taken it if he was against it right because it would have made a lot of other things make sense right but like but deal with it like address it yeah and this movie doesn't and then it turns it turns all of the conflicts into these sort of rather shallow things because then it makes Merrill's character look more petty and more sort of silly and frivolous because she takes this thing seriously and the movie doesn't share that opinion. Yeah. Like ultimately, I'm not as a viewer ever really going to ever come down on the side of the person who is like,

your religion means you can't have this relationship because we say so. Like, that's never going to be a thing that I'm going to sign on for. So the fact that this movie doesn't do anything to counteract that, I'm just in the weeds on it. Sure. I also still think she comes across, even though the movie is working against making her seem like a rational person and, like, all of her behavior, she's like hiding behind beds at Pier 1 or something when she spots them out in the wild. Right.

Um, she also is the one who's the most considerate of everyone in a way, because, like, she obviously cares for her son, but she also cares for her patient as well, who, like, and that's why she stays with her. She doesn't want to disrupt, like, her care. Um, yeah. I, I suppose there's a universe in which this movie behaves more like a mainstream studio comedy and has Meryl. like hatching schemes that I'm sort of glad it didn't go in that direction at least, that like but it keeps this movie in this sort of middle ground where at least that movie, the movie where

Merrill is hatching schemes and sort of trying to break them up on the sly and like, you know, planting little, you know, seeds in Raffian, whatever, and like being a worse character but in a sort of more broadly funny context, that's at least something. That would at least

be maybe that movie is funnier. I don't know. But as it stands, the movie that we get is too in the middle of that, where it's just like it doesn't, it's not antic and it's not glossy, but it's also, without that, you need to really like supplement that with more heartfelt, true to life, you know, recognizable scenes and character moments. Certainly in the relationship, between Umah Thurman and Brian Greenberg's characters, who, like, so much of the little, like, beats that we see in their relationship is, I think, meant to sell us on the fact that, like, oh, they're really, like, falling in love. But, like, is it, like, at what, at what point when she was watching him play basketball at Tompkins Square? Like, what is it just, like, what are the, what are these little, like, markers when they, like, went to this, like, fun and cool little, like, you know, party and whatever? and they, like, dance together?

I don't know. I just... I mean, I do think there's hints along the way that her ex-husband was, like, completely devoid and, like, didn't give her any attention in the bare minimum sense. So it's, like, the movie, I don't know, it's a tricky walk that the movie can't quite manage

of making it a romantic comedy, but knowing that, like, what her journey is is like becoming optimistic and feeling appreciated but like it has a shelf life and the movie takes it to that shelf life which is ultimately having a child and knowing she can't have a child with this child yeah um so like i don't know because like i do think there's like seeds of that in there but the movie can't like i don't know fine tune it enough to make it that be the journey like it ends up falling into oh but no they're so in love right it does a lot of like telling us that they're so in love which like even like through the therapy scenes we're like most we get most of our information about the status of this relationship by raffi like telling merrill's character straight up what's going on and and i do wonder and i think this is also kind of why the chemistry isn't fully there or like the relationship isn't fully there on screen between Meryl and Uma as well, but, like,

Uma Thurman came on to the movie, like, a week before they were shooting. Yep. Because it was supposed to be Sandra Bullock, and, like, Sandra Bullock had done full rehearsals with Brian Greenberg. And Sandra Bullock had reportedly wanted changes made to the script. And we can see why. Right. And it didn't happen, and she kind of bailed on it.

And it's funny because, especially talking about it in context of Oscar stuff. Like, Meryl and Sandra Bullock have become. become, in my mind, at least, sort of like intertwined on an Oscar level because of the 2009 Oscar campaign where Sandra... They become famous makeout buddies on TV. Right, exactly. Right. Bullock ends up winning for the blind side, and Merrill is sort of second place for Julian Julia. And is it that they tied at critics' choice? I mean, I can't imagine one of them going on stage when the other one won, so I do think they

maybe tied. I think that's what it was. I think it was that they tied at the Critics' Choice Awards and they like made out as too strong of a word for it, but like they like kissed for real on the stage. They pretended to fight and then it became making out. And then in her Oscar speech Sandra Bullock sort of like

jokingly refers to Merrill as her lover. And it's like they had as Merrill has done I think a lot, especially recently, as the Oscars have become more of a months-long campaign and a series of productions and whatever. Meryl's relationships with the women in her category are sort of like fun and interact.

I think of her and Viola Davis, who, after co-starring in doubt, are end up against each other in the 2011 campaign, and Merrill ends up winning for The Iron Lady. But, like, that friendship is strong. Obviously, Viola gave that phenomenal speech giving Mary. the Cecil B. DeMille Award at the Golden Globes that one year, which everybody remembers the Merrill speech because it was just post-Trump and it was very sort of defiantly like Hollywood is, you know, the melting pot that you hate and this kind of thing. But people forget... She went from having completely lost her voice to her voice restores itself.

Oh, my God. Through the cheers of the crowd. It's so good. It's such a great speech. Great. But before that, Viola gives this, like, also really fantastic speech about how much She idolized Meryl and sort of, and strikes a very familiar, friendly tone with her, sort of like jabbing her and ripping her and that kind of thing. And it really, it made me believe in true friendship all over again. I see you. I see you.

And you know, all those rainy days we spent on the set of doubt every day my husband would call me at night and say, did you tell her how much she means to you? And I said, no, I can't say anything, Julius, I'm just nervous. All I do is stare at her all the time. He said, well, well, you need to say something. You've been waiting all your life to work with this woman. Say something. I said, Julius, I'll do it tomorrow.

Okay, well, well, you better do it tomorrow because when I get there, I'm going to say something. Never said anything, but I'm going to say it now. you make me proud to be an artist you make me feel that what I have in me my body my face my age is enough

it would have been really interesting to see Meryl and Sandra Bullock's relationship sort of like kickstart even earlier, co-starring on Prime, although I don't know if I would want this movie sort of as a bad omen in their professional past. Sure. Because it wouldn't have turned that way. I mean, obviously, Sandra Bullock wanted changes, and she was right to want them.

But I feel like Rafi is such a, like, non-character. She's a blank. She truly is. Beyond her, like, emotional journey in the movie. Like, I don't, we literally spend so much time with everyone else's professions. I don't remember if it even says what she does. She's a fashion something, right? She's a fashion photo layout designer.

She's a fashion photo review. She's a fashion photo review. She, this movie is a boot and very much not a tooth. Umma Thurman's job is peppermint in that video with Bob the Drag Queen, where she just keeps She decides that something is fashion or not, and she laughs or just not. But is it fashion? It's, excuse me, it's fashion. It's fashion?

Wait, what is it fashion? It's fashion. Stop me. It's fashion. So, yeah, I don't understand Rafi. I feel like I would understand her less with Sandra Bullock playing her, which is not a dig at Sandra as a performer, but, like, I guess for, like, the type of woman that the movie wants us to see Rafi as, like, you put Uma Thurman in the role, I guess it makes sense if you're not going to paint her beyond that. And Sandra Bullock, I mean, maybe I don't ever think of Sandra Bullock as, like, a New York City character unless they're super neurotic or, like, have a really shitty boss or...

No, now I want to go look up Sandra Bullock's filmography and see if there's anything where I could credibly be like, oh, she's New Yorkie. Fabulous New York City woman. Two weeks notice. Two weeks notice has to happen in New York. Shitty boss. Yeah. So that's her New York uvra is shitty boss? Not shitty boss, but like her New York uvra is her job as her life.

Because doesn't she live in like Brooklyn or Queens and Miss Congeniality? that's a question I don't know the answer to I should but I don't Rafi's job is definitely not her life No absolutely not No that's the vaguest part of her character I guess the proposal right She is the shitty boss in that one

You're totally right But her job is her life Yes Wow you've really nailed it 28 days maybe I don't know I can't remember where she originates from and that.

Certainly not something like practical magic, practical magic. Well, her job in that movie is to be drunk. Right. Then she's very dedicated to it. It is her life. You're totally right. 28 days is good. 28 days is underrated.

I will say that. It's really good. Catch it on, you know, cable with commercials on a weekend on like a Saturday afternoon or something like that. The tiny brain clusters on Santa Cruz. Also, in the realm of her job is her life. and that kind of thing. She was, of course, the star of the Working Girl television series in 1990

before she ever became a famous film actress. So, yeah, I think you're definitely on to something here. I don't know. I feel bad for Uma in this movie. Me too. She's clearly trying. Clearly is, like, coming into this the last minute. And I do think she's likable in the movie.

Like, she's not a bad, you know, leading actress in a romantic comedy. It's just like she's saddled with this underdeveloped character who has, already been, like, gone through literal rehearsal procedures with another performer. So, like, everything is kind of asunder. So let's, I want to talk about this very specific era in Uma Thurman's career. Because, like, Pulp Fiction happened in 94, and she was, of course, like, a very popular and castable actress, and she gets in a bunch of things. And then, I'm not sure whether, like, Batman and Robin killed it.

But, like, Batman and Robin in 97 and then the Avengers, the Bad Avengers in 1998. The Bomb Avengers. And also Les Mis. Yeah. Yes, the non-musical Les Mis. So, like, all of those things on top of each other really kind of, like, knocked her down. And Kill Bill was definitely not, like, a complete comeback, but, like, it was a relief to have her sort of, like, back on top in that way. She also at that, around that time, had done that HBO movie, hysterical blindness.

with, I think Mira Naird directed that. And it was her- Jenna Rollins and Juliette Lewis, and they were sort of like 80s, Jersey, trashy people, but, like, it was very much like a character study, and she was very good in it, and then follows that with the two Kill Bill movies,

which, like, she's on top of the world at that point. And it couldn't last. 2005, she's in Be Cool, the disastrous Get Shorty sequel, where it reunites her and Trevoldza from Pulp Fiction, and like neither one of those reunion revival aspects helps that movie be anything that anybody wanted to see. And then also Prime, and then also the producers, which...

She's the one who came out unscathed, even though I haven't seen it still. We got to do the producer. She's a terrible... singer. Yes, she is. And I think that clip got shown a lot. And we got to do the producers at some point, maybe soon, because... We're running out of musicals, though.

We are, but, you know, we'll figure it out. We'll figure it out. But this is just, it's such a bummer year for her that at the point where she's back at the top, and as I said, a lot of people thought she was overdue for a lead actress, Oscar nomination,

because she had been snubbed for both of the Kill Bill movies in which she's fantastic. And 2005, such a crash. And after that... And it keeps going down, because after that is my super ex-girlfriend, which bombs and is terrible. After that is Secret Columbine movie,

The Life Before Her Eyes. Yes. Secret Columbine, it's totally true. God, what a terrible movie that is. And then it's, like, not even movies that exist. You know what I mean? Then it's... Although, I will say, she's in a movie, she's in a movie in 2010 called Ceremony, which is legitimately the better version of Prime.

And I totally forgot about it until I just saw this on her I&B. It's not a movie I really remember anymore, but at the time, I really liked it. It's her. Oh, it's Michael Angarno. It's Michael. Her and Michael and Garano are in a relationship in that one. But you know who's freaking fantastic in that is Jake Johnson. It's a little wee handsome.

Yeah. Jake Johnson in that movie. movie, which was just before he became anybody. It was like maybe the year before New Girl, or it wasn't too long before New Girl at all. But he's, I think he plays her brother. He plays Uma Thurman's brother, and he's kind of volatile, and he's wonderful. Just absolutely fantastic. It's worth checking out, I will say.

It is absolutely the superior version of, it doesn't have, obviously, like, the mother therapist, or anything like that. But in terms of a kind of May December romance with Uma as the December, it's really, really good. I really enjoyed it. Umma Thurman as my December. Um...

Well, Umma Thurman's My December was appearing on Smash in 2012 as... That is true. Peanut Victim Rebecca Duvall. Yeah, Smash happens after that. I will say, Umma Thurman is good in her one scene in Lars von Trier's infamaniac. Yeah.

where she shows up to her husband's house like with her with her with her to her husband and her miss and his mistress with their children and is like should I show the children the horring bed that's the line I was about to ask you what's the line from the trailer because I've not seen infomaniac but I remember the line from the trailer and it is should I show the children the whoring bed would it be all right if I show the children the horring bed it's what's that line in the beguiled trailer that everybody fucking flipped out about bring me the anatomy book bring me the The anatomy book? Yes, bring me the anatomy. It's the Bring Me the Anatomy book of the Nymphomaniac trailer. Absolutely for sure. At some point, the Kennedy Center honors

is going to have to address the fact that Uma Thurman was in both smash and the slap, which is a double feature that is unparalleled in terms of like, at best, you only ever get one of those TV series in a career.

And the fact that Uma was in both, of them is astounding. Like, it really does deserve a recognition in some way or another. My great shame is that I still have seen neither. I would... I've made it this far through quarantine, seeing neither of them. I don't know if I'll ever make it. Oh, I think you would...

I think you would get a lot of... You would just text me every day and just be, like, all caps, just, like, yelling at me at what a lunatic I am for making you watch it. But, like, I think you would get a lot out of it. is what I will say. All right. Yeah, Uma's career. Feel bad for Uma.

I do. Plus, even, it's like, her biggest success is the Kill Bill movies, and, like, we've since heard of, like, all the shit that went down on set with that, and she was almost killed, and... Yeah, her... And then the other one is Pulp Fiction,

and obviously her relationship with Harvey Weinstein is not great, and all of her... Right. of her biggest successes seem to have these kind of a pall is cast over them now, and it sucks. It sucks for her because it's not her fault, and I don't know. I like her.

She's not one of those actresses that, like, you know, lock her in. You can count on, like, this fantastic performance every single time. But when she's on, she's on, and she's really good. Well, and I was also just making this point a few weeks back about Catherine Zeta-Jones, that it's like if we had certain kinds of movies and certain kinds of tastes still in the mainstream, we would maybe get more great roles

for a performer like Uma. Say what you will about Batman and Robin. We are well on the record that I think it is great and you think it is terrible. Like she is giving exactly what that movie is asking her to do and like she's doing it better than anybody else in that movie. Yeah.

Yeah. I think she comes out and scathed of it. It's completely insane. and bug nuts, but it's what you want out of that. If you want a complete drag queen performance, that is what you are getting in spades. And yes, let's pivot to Merrill for a second, because the thing that I made note of, as I'm watching the movie last night, and I'm sort of marking this down, this is our sixth episode on a Merrill Street movie, which puts her...

I don't know we'd done that many. I didn't either, and that's why I sort of like, but we did all, we've done all three of her disastrous 2007 movies, which is Lions for Lambs, rendition, and evening. And then we've also covered, it's complicated early on, Ricky and The Flash, and now Prime Makes Six. So a lot of shows Saturday Night Live, our beloved Blank Check podcast, recognize a five-timers club. I propose that we recognize a six-timers club, because that is right now the apex of this had Oscar Buzz recidivism. We currently have four, four, five with an asterisk, but I'll explain that in a second, actors in our six-timers club. It's Merrill. It is Naomi Watts, who just got boosted, went from two to six real quickly after our month-long feature.

on Naomi Watts, we've done Jay Edgar, I Heart Huckabees, and then our series, which we did La Divorce, the Painted Vale, Diana, St. Vincent. So Naomi's at six. Anthony Hopkins is at six with Hannibal,

Alexander, Meet Joe Black, the Human Stain, Bobby, if you'll recall, and most recently proof. And then, of course, we've talked about our love for Claire Danes. And the Claire Dane's thing is funny because we did four Claire Dane's movies within the span of like 12 episodes. And like fully by accident.

Fully by accident. Then we leaned into it because it was funny. Family Stone to Jillian on her 37th birthday. How to Make an American Quilt, which she's like not in very much, but it counts. Shop Girl. And then Evening and the Rainmaker most recently. So that's her six. Our asterisk is Matt Damon, who we.

We've done Courage Under Fire, Suburban, All the Pretty Horses, and the Rainmaker. He's also a voice in The Majestic and a cameo in Finding Forrester. So I think that's not the same as our Six-Timers Club, but he's in sort of... I think the cameo counts as a performance and maybe the voice doesn't. Either way, he's sort of in an ante room sort of all to himself. And if you're interested in the two that are closest to cracking six-timers, one of them I think we'll do, we'll make it very soon. It's Jake Gyllenhaal, because we've got a bunch of Jake Gyllenhaal movies sort of in the hopper. Jillen-Hall, we've done brothers, love and other drugs, rendition, zodiac, and proof.

So that's his five. Also in our five-timers designation, we won't call it a club. because, again, the club is reserved for the six-timers. Dermit Mulroney. I wonder if I can guess these. Yeah, let's see if you can. A couple of them came as a surprise, even to me, as I was looking this stuff up. He's in How to Make an American Quill, right?

He absolutely is. Okay. I'm trying to think. He's in two of our Claire Danes movies. Oh, what's the... He's not an evening. Nope. he's not into Jillian

It's the one where his role is the most prominent Of all of his five movies This is the one where his role is the most prominent He's technically like He's I mean I guess in a technical way He's maybe the protagonist But like not really What the hell is this

Why do I not remember an episode we've done? Because he's the worst part of this movie He's the character You sort of boo and hiss In a ensemble that I otherwise love he's in the family stone oh duh yeah he's also in you're never going to get these other three because like you've you've totally forgotten that he's in it he's in j edgar

he's in zodiac and he's in truth oh yeah i mean you don't remember anything about truth yeah so anyway those are our sort of most oft discussed performers merrill as i said has just entered our prestigious six timers club. So Chris, I made a game about Merrill, as we did when Claire Danes, when we had Claire Danes on for her sixth episode, we, I have made a little quiz about the six Merrill Street movies that we have covered on this episode. I have made a 20-question quiz, and we will move through it rapidly, but excitedly. All right. I think you can do this. Do it. Do it. As a reminder, the six Merrill movies that I'll be asking questions about are, it's complicated,

rendition, lions for lambs, evening, Ricky and the Flash, and Prime. All right? It's quite a humble feast. It is a humble feast indeed. All right. So first one, which one was directed by a woman? Um, uh, oh, fuck, what was it? It's complicated. Yes, Nancy Myers. Which one debuted at the Toronto International Film Festival? Rendition.

Yes. Which one was written by an Oscar winner? Not as complicated. Oh, Ricky in the Flash. Ricky in the Flash written by Diablo Cody. Which was the only one to open in December? Lines for Lamps? No, it's complicated.

It's complicated. Which two were directed by Oscar winners? And I'll say this has a bit of an asterisk to it as well. Rendition? That's the asterisk. Gavin Hood technically is not the Oscar winner for Totsi. That is whatever country Totsie is from. It's not this.

It's not evening. It's not. It's complicated. It's, well, I just said rendition. Um, oh, it's Ricky in the Flash. It's Ricky in the Flash, and what's the other one? Uh, rendition. No, as I said, Gavin Hood is the technicality.

So he would be the third one. I should have written all of these movies down because they already escape me. It's not evening. I'll read them to you again, and you can jot them down if you would like. Sorry. It's complicated, rendition, Lions for Lambs, evening. It's the most forgettable movie ever. Yes, it's complicated.

is. Evening, Ricky and the Flash and Prime. So jot those down and you can have your word bank. Yes, Lyons for Lambs

written or directed by Oscar winner Robert Redford. Which is the only one that's longer than two hours?

Um, are any of them longer than two hours? It's got to be it's complicated. It's complicated is exactly two hours I'm pretty sure.

Rendition is two hours and two minutes. So truly Stupid. Yes, exactly. Where am I at? Which film co-stars a Spider-Man?

Co-stars is a Spider-Man? Well, that would be Toby McGuire, Andrew Garfield, Tom Holland. Oh, well, it's rendition. No, that's Jake Gyllenall. He almost was Spider-Man. He was almost Spider-Man. What the hell? Why is this?

Oh, no. Lines for Lams, it's Andrew Garfield. It's Andrew Garfield Lans for Lams. He's like the lead of the movie. Yes. Which film co-stars a Spider-Man villain? Defoe. Malina. Jamie Fox.

Michael Keaton. Thomas Hayden Church. Tofer Grace. Oh, it's Tofer Grace. it is um uh uh which one was tofer grason not rendition um spider man villain not um not um not um think recent recent spider man so it would be uh jake jillen hall also it's rendition it's rendition jillen i hate everybody loved that spider man i did not like it it was fine um it's gone from my

memory which film stars a cast member of connie and carla oh god tomm Colette, so it's, um, evening. Evening. Yep. Connie and Carlin, my beloved Connie and Carolina. I know. I knew you would get that one. Which film stars three Tony Award winners?

Three Tony Award winners. Um, it's got to be Ricky in the Flash. Which three? Audra McDonald, Kevin Klein, and, um, Ben Platt. Ben Platt. Very good.

Which film was distributed by focus features? Uh, evening. Yep. Which three of these films did Meryl get AARP movies for Grownups Awards nominations for? This, Ricky in the Flash, and it's complicated? Not Ricky in the Flash. Prime, yes, it's complicated, yes. Prime.

There's also Lions for Lambs, rendition. I don't think it's either of those. I said it's complicated. What's the other one I'm missing? Evening. Again. Evening, not evening, unless it was like an ensemble nomination. Was it, wait?

None of these are ensemble nominations. They're all individual. Okay. Was it Lions for Lambs? It was Lyons for Lambs. I was going to say, you're going to get mad at it. God, God, the only people who watch this movie are the AARP movies for Grunup Awards. Which nomination committee and us?

Yep, exactly. And we've all forgotten about it. Which two also star cast members from dangerous liaisons? This, and, well, that's Michelle Pfeiffer, John Malkovich, someone else, Glenn Close. Oh, it's evening, it's Glenn Close. Yep, exactly. Which film co-stars two Jack Ryan's?

It's complicated. Alex Baldwin and John Krasinski, very right. Which two films star Best Supporting Actor Oscar Winners? Supporting actor Oscar Winners. Yes. Maybe it should be Ricky in the Flash because Rick Springfield should win an Oscar for that movie. I'm kidding. It's not Lions for Lambs because none of the men have Oscars in that movie.

It's not rendition. Could it be Ricky in the Flash? I don't think so. It's not prime. It's not evening. Is it as, no, it's not as complicated. It's not, it's complicated. I'll say that.

So I've gone through all of these movies. Is it, just because of Kevin Klein, is it Ricky in the Flash? Kevin Klein, Oscar winner for A Fish Called Wanda, is in Ricky in the Flash. Yep. Oh, it's not two supporting actors in the same movie. No. although that's what I thought you said um no uh the two movies that have supporting actor oscar winners in them the one you are missing does have two supporting actor oscar winners in it

oh interesting yes you remember zero of them i bet even though one of them is a being in this movie decently prominent role in it is it lines for lambs it's rendition has both alan arkin and jk Simmons. Oh, God. Which two films star best supporting actor Golden Globe winners? Lions for Lambs because

of Tom Cruise. And I'm just going to say it's complicated? No, it's still rendition, but it's just J.K. Simmons. Alan Arkin did not win. See, I thought you were trying to trick me that it would be people who didn't win an Oscar.

Never mind. Yeah, I tried. Which is the only one where Meryl Streep is not a the poster? Evening. Evening. Yep.

Which two films are set at least partly in New York City? Prime. Mm-hmm. And not evening. Not as complicated. Is it Lions for Lambs? No. I say at least partly, though.

So... Rendition. No. Rendition is set in Chicago and Washington, D.C. and, of course, Iraq, or Afghanistan, maybe. When is Ricky in a flash in New York City? It's not. It's in Tarzana, and then it's in Indianapolis. Okay.

Is it fucking, it's complicated? It's complicated. That's where the college graduation is, where they have sex for the first time. Okay. Which was the only one to top $100 million domestic? It's complicated. Correct. And the final question, which film co-starred brothers-in-law? It's complicated. No. Wait, who do you say, who are the brothers-in-law in it's complicated?

There's just a lot of dudes in that movie. It makes sense. Okay. You were so confident when you said it. I was like, oh, wait a second. Emily Blunt's brother is in, it's complicated? Fine is it Lions for Lamps? It is not. Is it evening? It is not. It's evening.

No. No. Okay, what is it? What is it? Well, you're down to two, so take a stab in the dark. Rendition? Yes. Jake Gyllenhaal and Peter Sarsgaard are in rendition.

Everyone is in rendition. God damn. Everybody is in rendition. Why did that movie fail so badly? Yes, correct. Good job. Kind of terrible job, but I'll take it. Okay.

I'll take it. All right. I want to transition to a deeply dark and cursed corner of this film, which is their weekend in the Hamptons in homosexual purgatory. It's like gay rich people, gay rich people. They probably say the words gay and rich a dozen times. And I was repulsed the whole time. I will say it is both a semi-accurate skewering of rich white gays while also being, especially because it is from an outsider's perspective, frequently, as you say, casually homophobic in its othering of these characters. well and it's so clearly coming from a straight bro perspective and then it is presented in a straight bro's perspective it is not great that part was less casually to me like it's very casually racist throughout the whole movie yeah but when one of one of the one of the campton's gaze was very casually like i vote republican for uh tax reasons i was like oh yeah like that's no you don't no absolutely he does absolutely yes

There are rich white gays on the hampaths. No, he doesn't. He is definitely just a Republican, and, like, that's something that gay Republicans said. Oh, no, but I mean, but, like, that's a thing. Like, that's... Sure. I feel like that was, you know, accurate characterization. The thing that bugged me was the fact that you have this Zach Orth character,

who is the one who introduces Brian Greenberg to Uma Thurman when they're at line at Cinema Village to see the Antonioni double feature. Sigh, I miss New York so much. that when he initially introduces them, he is very sort of obviously hot for Brian Greenberg. They worked together or something. That's obviously why he called him out in the line. And then by the time we see him again, he has become this, like, calcified, embittered, just, like, hates Brian Greenberg, hates LumaFur. Like, staring from a corner at him the whole time, even though he's with the group somehow.

He's, like, standing in a philosophical corner, just brooding about his lust for him. Like, just, like, fondling his metaphorical wine glass, really, and just sort of, like, plotting. It's like, oh, what was the mini-series? Did you see the miniseries with Tom Hiddleston, the Knight Manager? No. Elizabeth Debicki's in it. And Tom Hollander plays this, like, perfect sort of, like, gay. secondary villain kind of character and it's like delicious in that way i have maybe never liked

a zach orth character in my entire lifetime of watching movies has zach orth also played this gay character several times during this time i feel like yes this one is like the uber version of it right though he has like the uh like ironed hair he has keith herban's hair today um yes he's in He's in Wet Hot American Summer, and I think he's supposed to be obnoxious in that movie. I think he's, like, probably supposed to be obnoxious in a lot of these movies. He's one of the, like, jerks in Loser. Remember that movie Loser with Jason Biggs and Mina Suvari? He's one of Kevin Klein's students.

He's always in these, like, weirdly, like, gay-adjacent roles, even if he's not playing gay. He's sort of adjacent to the Bradley Cooper, Michael Ian Black storyline in Wet Hot, and he's one of Kevin Klein's students along with Lauren Ambrose in and out, but he's just always so fucking obnoxious, and I really just like end up, and he's always a side character, so it always feels weird that I like focus on how much I hate his characters, but I always do. He's good at playing unlikable people, but perhaps too good at it, that you just really recoil when you see him on screen. Yeah. It's like, oh, I'm going to hate this character. Great. Yeah. So the casual homophobia is sort of like halfway on

Target and half not. There was that, there's that one dumb line where he's, Brian Greenberg is sort of like fawning over the house and the Hampton's house and whatnot, which I relate. But he's like, this is how rich people live and Ouma's like this is how gay rich people live. And it's just like no, this is just how rich people live.

Like, yeah, shut up. Yeah. The casual racism is worse for sure. I like, I can't even pinpoint a moment. It's just like kind of peppered throughout the movie in a way that's just fully unnecessary but illuminating. The real moment is when he tells Umah, in talking about

how hard it's going to be to tell his parents that he's dating a non-Jewish girl is that he dated a black girl once and he brought her up to his grandmother. There's the whole sequence where he thinks it kills his grandmother. That he brought home a black girl. And it's so much like, it's so othering

and it's so much like told as this like cute anecdote. It goes into like this sketch comedy territory where it's like there's a flashback that like it's shot in a different like color story it's very sepia yeah and then and then the punchline is that this grandmother whenever he tells her something about his life that she doesn't approve of she just starts bonking her head with a cast iron frying ban as this sort of just like you know self-flagellating whatever manipulative matriarch kind of a thing and it's played as the like the cutziest anecdote and it's just like just the tone is so off as you said it's not like it's not vile but it's just like the casualness with which younger is able to sort of like toss this off as like a cute story like cute story my family is so racist that I couldn't even bring home my black girlfriend this one time ha ha ha ha and combined with the fact that his artwork is like all the

these like portraits of black women. Appropriative. Yeah. Yeah, it's bad. It's bad. I was like kind of outraged that Uma Thurman sees one of his paintings and it's like, you're so good. You have to paint. It's just like, I mean. But I feel like that's a thing in so many movies where people sort of like are, their artistic ability is sort of plucked out of a crowd. And it's always so hard to look at stuff and just be like you know, this. And I don't know. Art's

subjective. Yes. Indeed. So when we talk about why this movie failed, I feel like we've made a decent case for it. Oh, I didn't mention the... We're not expressing revolutionary opinions

about this movie. Everybody basically felt this way. I didn't get to the John Abraham's character, though. His best friend. who was, like, the most obnoxious character in a movie I've seen in quite a while, who is just, that's the... He's the boyfriend in the first scary movie. He's never played a character that wasn't a variation on that. He's one of the, like, I think he's one of the younger teachers in Boston Public, if you ever watched Boston Public. I did.

Right? He's like Nicky Cat's friend. Was he the one that had, like, the statutory rape scandal? No, that was Tom McCarthy. Oscar director of Oscar winning Best Picture Spotlight Tom McCarthy Was that role? No, John Abraham's I think was brought in in like the second season maybe When like Jerry Ryan was brought in and he's I think Yeah just like one of the like young maybe cool teachers I can't remember maybe I should watch Boston Public

God Boston Public like hospital like wow this much shit just like happens here at this one hospital that's crazy Boston Public, if that was a school, like, the entire administration should be, like, fire. Oh, absolutely. Everything that happened in that one high school. But also, it's such a fascinating moment in time because it's David E. Kelly, who is on the hot streak of his life, where he does the practice for ABC, and it becomes this, like, unlikely smash hit Emmy winning legal drama. Follows that up with Allie McBeal, which, like, captures the fucking zeitgeist because a lawyer, wore a miniskirt in the pilot. Like, it's everything about

Ali McBeal is like too too cutesy, too clever to whatever, but it like, it absolutely for a very short period of time, captivated the nation. And so on the heels of that, he's like, he was like the Ryan Murphy of the moment where it's just like, do it,

do anything you want to do, just do it. And so he created Boston Public, which is the like third in this triptych of Boston area TV shows. But instead of being about lawyers, this one is about public school teachers, but it's treated with the same, like, level of insane, like, case of the week stuff that the lawyer shows were. And it's, like, Loretta Devine and Fiveish Finkel and Michael Rappaport, and, like, the most, like,

extra out of, like, off the wall sort of characters. And every week, it's a different sort of, like, you know, momentary drama. But it's fully. insane. In a single school year, enough happens in one's school to fully remove all of their federal funding. Absolutely. That's the premise. That's the premise of Boston Public. Smell that shoe. What a weird show. But how did we get on that? Oh, John Abraham's. So the thing about John Abraham's character, he's the obnoxious best friend. And a lot of these rom-coms have obnoxious best friends and whatever. I still say that the best rom-coms find a way to make all these characters likable in one way or another. This one does not. But this fucking guy,

whose entire sort of like, his entire character quirk, his version of Catherine Zeta Jones, knowing all this stuff about Napoleon, is like, I am going to take my revenge on women who either won't sleep with me anymore or won't sleep with me, like, show up on their doorstep and like smash a cream pie in their face, which a stupid and gross and like, uh, uh, toxic masculine. personality personified. But also, we see a scene of them waiting in a line, like an actual line out the door at Magnolia Bakery, which does happen, to buy a banana cream pie from Magnolia for the purposes of smashing in a girl's face. Like, do you know how much money Magnolia charges for a full banana cream pie? Like, go to your fucking, like, go to your bodega, go to a gram cracker crust tin, fill it with fucking cool whip and do your business. Like, don't spend all this money. Buy a goddamn Marie calendars in the freezer section for God's sake. Like, I don't understand

why you need to spend $25 or whatever the hell it's going to cost you for a magnolia pie just to be a toxic male nightmare. I'm willing to bet it's more than that. Just illuminating how stupid the character is. Infuriating. And every single time they come back to him, I'm just like

it just makes... He's always in some dumb fucking hat. Like, of course that type of guy is always in a dumb fucking hat, but like... And this character type of is usually meant to help you contrast with your main character and be like, well, at least the main character isn't as bad as this guy. But this movie, it's the complete opposite, which is, I hate the Brian Greenberg character so much more whenever this other guy's around because it's like, how is this your friend?

And it makes, like, the relationship not believable because, like, sorry, if you have shitty friends, she's probably not fucking you. She's 37 years old. She has absolutely learned the lesson of- I'm not going to put up with your bad friends, so she is not going to put up with you. She's absolutely, by that point, learned the lesson of if his friends are shitty assholes, he is also a shitty asshole. Like, come on. Which I mean, like, his friends suck, but also, he sucks.

Like, yes. To belabor the point that I'm like, I hate this character. This dude is lame. But he looks like that, Chris. I don't know. I sympathize with her. I mean, but, like, there's a lot of guys that look like that. One of them's got to be nice to Uma Thurman.

Yeah, it's a good point. It's a fine and good point. The other thing. Go find John Foster. What's that? I said, go find John Foster. Yeah, you go find John Foster, Chris. You leave me with Brian Greenberg.

His career is kind of interesting, too, right? Because when he's making this movie... What's that? I said that's a nice way to say, you are a bitch, I swear to God. Let me have my moment with Brian Greenberg, for God's sake. while he is making this film, he's also filming that really weird self-referential, I believe George Clooney produced HBO show unscripted, which basically aired this same year.

And it's this quasi-half-real, half-fake documentary series about young actors trying to make it and whatever. and he's one of the main characters. It's him. It's Krista Allen, who was in, I want to say liar, liar, but I mostly know her as the replacement Billy Reed on Days of Our Lives. She replaced Lisa Rina in the role of Billy Reed on Days of Our Lives. Anyway, it's these actual young actors trying to make it in this, like, semi-fake, semi-real documentary. It was just deeply weird.

It was Clooney and Steven Soderberg. who produced it this series. So it was like the pedigree could not have been higher. It's a failed experiment for sure. But while that is filming is when he's landing the

role in prime. Obviously did not I mean, actually his career did go some places. He goes from this. He's in he had already been sort of a guest star on One Tree Hill by this point.

He gets the lead in this ABC series called October Road, which my one co-worker at Decider. I fully remember the commercials for this. This was the prestige show that got like the great commercials during Grey's Anatomy, where it was like, if you love Grey's Anatomy, you're going to love October Road. Yeah, he was a sort of young, successful author who comes back to his hometown and everybody's like, you think you're better than us. And it's basically like, you think you're better than us, the TV show. I want to say Laura Prepon was in that show.

She was in that show. Yeah. Yeah. He's, I'm trying to think of, like, he's always sort of just, like, he's kind of the boyfriend in things. He's on, I guess, the Mindy Project. I remember him mostly from, it's Bride Wars, right, that he's in? Yes.

Yes. Is he the good one in Bride Wars, or is he the bad one in Bride Wars? Because one of them ends up with, one of them, one of the fiancés ends up being a bad fiance and one of them ends up with the brother the other one of the girls ends up with the other girl's brother and i can't remember chris pratt was one of the guys in it um and greenberg is one of them i do not care enough to investigate the plot of bride wars to figure out which i'm right about but maybe somebody can tell me at some point but yeah i don't know interesting sort of yeah you hate him that's fine it's you're right i mean i don't

want to hate him. It's just like he has that whole facial blindness thing that it's like it makes sense that he like didn't progress to much more starring roles I think. I think he's not necessarily a specific kind of performer even though he has a specific look. The other thing that I find interesting

and not everybody will, he's married to former real world star Jamie Chung. Jamie Chung who among other things... Now this is interesting to me. Jamie Chang was on the San Diego season of the real world, which I think was like the 12th or 13th season.

The same season with Frankie, who has since passed away from cystic fibrosis, but Frankie who was afraid of large ships, if you recall, that season of San Diego. Jamie was like the quiet, nice girl who literally just, like, did not get involved with drama, and thus did not

get a whole ton of storyline. She was on, like, one season of the challenge. I think she maybe had this, like, very sweet flirtation with the Miz, who is now a WWE champion. Jamie Chung's claim to fame as an actress is she was Mulan on Once Upon a Time.

She shows up in things. She was in, what was that terrible Zach Snyder movie with all the women? Sucker Punch. She was one of the women in Sucker Punch. Anyway, former real world star, she's been married to Brian Greenberg for like many years. She is in my subgenre of

real world cast members who have married famous actors, which it's her. It's obviously, our beloved Jacinda Barrett, who married, who was going to say, please invoke Jacinda Barrett, it's been a while, married to other suits from suits, and what's his face from a love song for Bobby Long, which we covered on this podcast. And of course, Kelly from Real World New Orleans, who is still married to Scott Wolfe, which it's been like 20 years. Like, it's been a long time. That marriage has lasted and good for them. So, yes, that's my news you can use about Brian Greenberg.

As we mentioned in the quiz, Chris, this is a Movies for Grownups. It's one, it's only nomination ever is a Movies for Grown Up's nomination for Merrill Streep as best actress. Which makes complete sense, ultimately, because, like, this, this is like an Oscar prediction movie until people see it, right? Like, it immediately died once people saw the movie. I think there was a little bit closer to release, because, like, you mentioned, I'm out and late October, when it doesn't show up at somewhere like Toronto, you can kind of start doubting a movie like this? Because it's not like it's a huge movie that that would explain that they didn't go. The good version of this movie is like the medler, which did play Toronto.

So like that's the, that's how you can tell. Yes, for sure. God, the medler is so good. The medler's very good. Very, very good. Go check it out. Um, we love Lorraine Skaparia. We do. God, she's the best. Okay. So this category, at Movies for Grownups. We've talked about twice before because this is the third film from this category that we have discussed on this show.

She's not a chance in hell we will do the other two. No, it's she's a nominee. Judy Dench for Ladies and Lavender is a nominee. Shirley McLean for In Her Shoes, which even though she's clearly a supporting actress in that film

is a nominee for lead actress. Also nominated is Leave Ulman for Sarabond, which is a film I've never seen, and I can't imagine I will, but it's Inghamar Bergman's 2003 film, Saraband, that apparently didn't get released into the United States until 2005. And then the winner is Joan Plow Wright from a film

I have absolutely neither seen nor heard of, called Mrs. Palfrey at the Claremont. I will 1,000% be willing to watch that movie, but there is no reason for us to do it on this podcast. The poster for this movie, I'm just going to lay it out. as you can imagine the poster it's called mrs paulfrey in the claremont it is joan plowright in the giantest coat you've ever seen like down to her ankles and like the giantest beige coat just beige mohair as far as the eye can see just like wrapped up in this big old beige coat with this like equally large red scarf uh wrapped around her the only part of her you can see is her face And also this poster is like from kind of a middle distance and the light is such that it kind of washes out her face. So like she almost doesn't exist on this own, on her own poster.

It's her walking down this like stone path and this pastoral setting, holding hands with a sweater twink. Literal child Rupert Friend. It's like the poster says and introducing Rupert Friend. He is a bebe in this movie. He is also wearing the biggest beigeest sweater you've ever. scene that looks like fuzzy in the way that like Nicholas Holt's sweater in a single man was fuzzy. Like you can feel the tactile sort of like, you know, fluffiness of it from outside your computer screen. Also wearing a scarf. Also with like washed out blonde hair down to his

shoulders and whatever. And they are holding hands and he's got like ripped jeans. His like jeans are like, you know, it's like he's young. It's like boot cut denim. Look at how young he's. is and look at how old she is and they're holding hands and I really, really hope they're in like a romantic relationship. I really do. At the very least, it's like... A movie named Mrs. Palfrey at the Claremont, you know exactly what the

poster is. It's two people taking a walk a walk on a stone path in the woods. It's so pleasant. The poster just like exudes pleasantness. It almost makes me want to see it, honestly, because... It looks like a chico's ass. It's so comfy. It's so like

the only thing that's wrong about it is they are absolutely dressed for mid to late fall and the trees are as green as you please. Like the trees in the background are so bright green and lush and I'm just like this is an autumn wardrobe.

It's truly like a candle scented named like afternoon walk. It is. It is. It's like fall foliage. It's like vanilla afternoon walk. Yes. No, it's, there's a, there is a pumpkin spice flavor to that

candle, Chris. I hate to tell you, but there absolutely is. A pumpkin spice in the spring? In the indeterminate spring where you wear a giant coat? It is not the spring. They are absolutely dressed for the fall. Like I do, I refuse to believe that they are these are fake, fake plastic trees, much like radio had warned us about. They were warning

us about the setting of Mrs. Palfrey at the Claremont. They knew. line of candles, including Afternoon Walk. Afternoon Walk by Yakey Candle. I would absolutely buy that and light it a flame right now, if I could. I love the movies for Grownups

Award so much for this. They've given us so much, truly. So much to talk about in our lives. At the same ceremony, they give Best Actor to Jeff Daniels for the Squid and the Whale. Talk about, like, two completely different vibes.

Mixed tones. Squid in the Whale is like a vomit-scented candle. it's like It smells like Vomit and Bad On Wee Is that candle It smells like the library books That the little kid

Like masturbated on in that movie Like it's Such a good movie It's such And also like I watched it again Very recently Incredibly brief It's like

Sub 80 minutes It's incredibly short But it's so good I think I've mentioned that on this before I'm going through my notes To see if there's anything else I want to bring up Is there anything else you want to bring up

Oh I mean we kind of Here's a thing. So the movie keeps the fact that Meryl Streep is Brian Greenberg's mother, a secret. We see her early on in the scenes being Uma's therapist. But the part where she's Brian Greenberg's mother is given this, like, peekaboo surprise when he goes home for, like, Friday Night's Seder or whatever. And it's shocking to me that this is, again, why I feel like the cast.

of Meryl Streep in this movie came at a late stage because marketing exists. And once you've cast Merrill Streep in your movie, you are obviously going to be advertising Merrill Streep. And so the movie

sort of kind of assumes that you've seen no ads about it, no posters about it, no TV commercials. Because otherwise, like this is not a surprise. I don't understand why the movie is like playing cutesy peekaboo with this. Because like TV commercials exist.

That's why we're, that's why we're seeing this movie. Yeah, I think it doesn't happen until like a half hour into the movie. It's so weird. It's so weird. Well, Merrill's not in the movie that much. No, unfortunately. This is a very foot forward movie. I wondered whether that was like Umma Thurman's gravitational pull sort of thing.

Like, there are just like full like shots of like her feet and Brian Greenberg's feet. And it's, it's very foot focused. And I guess that's Uma's power. What else? you brought up the theater that they actually go to because when that scene came up, I was like, this is definitely an existing movie theater in New York City, and I can't tell what it is. And one of my more depressing behaviors during quarantine, because we can't go to movie theaters, it has been going on the Cinema Treasures website and looking up, I can't

imagine anything fucking sadder than this, but like looking up different old movie theaters that either don't exist or are now closed. So I was very curious what that theater is. Cinema Village is in the West Village. It's sort of a couple blocks west of, like, Union Square. And it's one of the, like, there are sort of, like, three sort of, like, small little indie theaters in that general area. Quad Cinema got refurbished somewhat recently. And I'm not sure whether Cinema Village has. I'm trying to remember if that's the place where I saw, I always try to, try to remember these theaters from, like, what movies I saw there. And I saw one of the, Remember that year where Gasland was a documentary feature nominee, the movie where they lit their tap water on fire because it had gas? There was also a film that year, a documentary nominee called Wasteland that same year. And I think I saw both of them at Cinema Village. But obviously I've seen other things.

It's tough to remember that general sort of few theaters in that area. But it's all like it's wonderful and quaint. And I love a movie, as I've mentioned previously. I love a movie theater that has a marquee that you can, you know, see in movies. And obviously this one was, you know, ginned up for the movie, for the purposes of prime, so that we could tell that they're both very, come from intellectual backgrounds, that they're going to see the Antonioni double feature. Which did seem fun.

Oh, that would be fun. This is the other thing that I was super annoyed by. This is a Ben Younger thing. Brian Greenberg, the plot machinations of this movie require that when he and Uma are on a break, to quote the parlance of friends, he ends up sleeping with the one beautiful, again, vaguely fashion employed woman who works with, it's faggit's everybody, it's fashion, works with Uma at the fashion place, at the fashion emporium. Yeah, the fashion hut. he runs into her at a club and she's in the roped off area and she lets him in whatever and you know they're going to sleep together it's just a matter of just like just fucking get the train to the station just like get there and the movie in this scene has her step out onto the dance floor and start sort of like dorkly slash lamely kind of like dancing around and i was just like this fucking movie is so goddamn insecure about beautiful women that it's going to name narratively nag this character and sort of like bring her down a notch where like she's too beautiful she's too intimidating oh but she's a like she's a bad dancer so now we don't have to

feel so like bad about our fragile little male egos that like it just knocks her down a peg and it was super annoying to me this is a very male movie in a way did you get that sense or am i just like creating parallels that are drawing conclusions that shouldn't no no like again like to all the points that I've said before, like, there's a lot of examples in this movie that I'm like, this is like, I don't know. It comes from this, like, toxic perspective that feels like it's getting glossed over in a way that, I don't know. It feels a little bit like if somebody tried to mold, not something as extreme as a hangover movie, but like, I don't know. It's not even like an Edward Burns movie, right? Like, maybe a good version of this movie is like an

Edward Burns movie at the very least, but like... Yeah, I think that the toxic masculinity and the sort of like the duchiness is at a, is at a low simmer in this. It really, it never becomes, at least I don't think, goes over into a full sort of like agro boil or anything like that. Yeah, but... But it's always there. It's always there. It never goes away. Right. Exactly. Exactly. It's kind of surprise. I mean, I guess my last point on the movie is it's surprising to me that Merrill wanted to do this movie.

that's how much I feel bad about it. Yeah, especially coming off of the hot streak that she was on with, again, adaptation, The Hours, Angels in America. It's so, like, bizarre. Even, like, because the Manchurian candidate comes after those and before this. But, like, even that one, it's a remake of the Manchurian candidate. And it's a Jonathan Demi movie. Of course she's going to want to make that. But so it's just, like, she makes The Hours.

She makes Adaptation. She makes Angels in America. She works with Jonathan Demi. And then, like, what's the natural successor to all of this? is this like middling like low profile low budget nothing movie that i mean it could have just been a paycheck she lives in new york city she probably shot for barely more than a week on this movie my last word on this movie is going to be just find and rent jennifer westfeldt's ira and abbey you will be invariably happier if for no other reason than christmasine is in it and christmasine is

adorable. I would say Jennifer Westfelt's friends with kids, which has some problems, but it ends in like the most romantic way to me of two people like fumbling into bed together. I thought it was sweet. Watch a Jennifer Westfeld movie instead of watching Prime,

you will not be sorry. Do we want to do the IMDB game, sir? Sure. We can do the IMDB game. Every week we end our episodes with the IMDB game as we are prone to do, and we challenge each other with an actor or actress to try to guess the top four titles that IMTV says they are most known for. If any of those are television or voiceover work, we mention that

up front. After two wrong guesses, we get the remaining titles release years as a clue. That's not enough. It just becomes a free-for-all of hints. Indeed. Chris, would you like to go first or guess first? I think I'm going to give to you first. Thank you. Put me out of my misery. Sure. Okay, so I actually went down the Brian Greer. Greenberg route. One of the things that he starred in that you did not mention was the teen film The Perfect Score in which a bunch of high schoolers try to dupe the SATs and cheat. He's on the poster then, right?

He's in, hits him and Scarjo and all of the teens, I believe, are. Yeah, Erica Christensen. Yes. MCU members in the future. Chris Evans and Scarlett Johansson are in that movie. However, I did not pick. either of them, I picked a non-MCU star

who is also the headliner of this movie, the perfect score. It's Ms. Erica Christensen. Yeah, any television. There is one piece of television. Is it parenthood? It is indeed Parenthood. Okay, all right.

She was... Parenthood. She was the character on Parenthood who, like, all the parenthood fans hated. Like, it was... And it's one of those things where it's just, like, and she was, like, her storyline was that she's

the successful working mom and I was just like, okay, can me not just like always hate the working mom? She was kind of annoying on it. Oh, Jesus. All right, anyway, traffic. Traffic is there. It's the drugged out daughter of Michael Douglas

and traffic. All of her scenes were as blue as you could please. That's how you knew that you were not in Mexico because her scenes were blue. I do love traffic. Okay. Is the perfect score one of them?

No. Okay. Oh, swim fans got to be one of them as the titular swim fan. Swim a fan. Yeah. She menaces Jesse Bradford and his hot swimmer's body. And of course, dear Shiri Appleby of Roswell fame. Okay.

So I've got three. Yes. You have one wrong guess. You are awaiting one title. If you get another wrong guess, I will give you the year. God, now I've got to try and remember any other Erica Christensen movies. Oh, boy. Is this going to be one of those that's just going to take me forever?

I can give you some hints if you get a wrong guess. Yeah, I was going to say, yeah, let's wait for the free-for-all. Okay. Erica Christensen, other movies that she was in around that time, because traffic was sort of like the breakthrough. So that's 2000. And swim fan isn't for maybe another two or three years. Is that O2, swim fan?

Swim fan is O2, yes. Okay. What a time to be alive for Erica Christensen. Okay. There are multiple movies we could do on this podcast that you have not guessed that she is in. In her filmography? Oh, that's interesting. Yeah.

I'm trying to figure out, like, what was her, like, niche? Because I don't remember her being in a ton of, like, like teen stuff exactly like she wasn't like a big teen star okay but but now you said stuff that we could do

for this head Oscar buzz she's one of the daughters in the upside of anger she is it is not on her known for however what a cast to play Joan Allen's daughter what cast the upside of anger Erica Christensen Carrie Russell Alicia Witt is there a fourth Or is it just those three?

Are it crazy if it's Evan Rachel Wood? It's the little one. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes. We got to do that movie soon. We do. I just want to watch it again.

I know me too. But it's not that. It is not that. The movie is from the year 2005. I will say I kind of picked Eric and Christensen when I was looking around simply because seeing this title next to Swin Fan made me kind of chuckle. Oh, okay. Is that another aquatic?

like this title comma swim fan oh this is a movie it has a very similar title and that it's like this that i need to remember swim fan for when we do um movies that take place in on or underwater for scatigories oh my god yes that would be a great my least favorite category because i am terrible at it we were playing this last night listeners going to a little window into our into our recreational fun we were playing movie categories and the category was movies that take place in on or underwater. Not only did I not remember, the letters were something in P, one of the letters was P. Not only did I not recall any of the billion pirates of the Caribbean movies that would

have fit that category, but it took me to the literal second that the time ran out to come up with the Poseidon adventure and Poseidon. I was, I wanted to fully Gina Davis in Beetlejuice, peel the skin off of my face. and shoot my eyes out of my skull because the second that they said Pirates of the Caribbean and like got five. Well, also just pirates in general, because there's also like that animated movie, Pirates, the Band of Misfits or whatever. Like there's like Pirates is a deep rich vein for movies that take place on in or underwater. Anyway, anyway, oh five. This is in the same iambic pentameter, whatever it is, as swim fan, and it rhymes with swim thing.

Swim fan Trim plan Trem plan Trem No Plan Flight plan It's flight plan

It's flight plan She's she a stewardess in flight plan Is that what happened? Probably She's billed as Fiona I was so excited for flight plan It's just such a dud that movie I might rather eat a knife than watch that movie again

I honestly, that might be a fun quarantine movie, just to like watch and tweet about and whatever flight plan. Watch like flight plan. What's the Liam Neeson plane movie? Nonstop. With Julianne Moore. Nonstop is fun. Nonstop is also so chalkful of familiar actors. Like, Lupita's in that. Julianne Moore, Scoot McNary, Michelle Dockery from Downton Abbey, Nate Parker, unfortunately. But like, it's, so chockful of recognizable faces. Nonstop. Worth. Worth it. Saw that movie with like a group of friends at Union Square on a Friday night. I never go to see movies on opening night Friday night, and especially not at a crowded theater like Union Square. But like for whatever reason, nonstop was the movie that drew me out.

It was weird. It was weird that that happened. All right. So I got him. Flight plan swim fan. Flight plans. So Flight Plan Swim Fan Traffic. parenthood. Interesting. Interesting. I am known for. For Eric Christ. Put it on a t-shirt. Put it on a t-shirt.

Make it happen. All right. Chris, that's our episode. Uh, excuse me. Oh, wait, I haven't given you guys. I'm like, I am off my game. Unless you just want to hand me a perfect score and say that a perfect score happened. Yeah, we can end the episode. Did you, did you go the perfect score route as like a good omen to giving you a perfect score? I feel a lot of pressure now. Maybe if I cheat the perfect score. like they do in the perfect score.

Oh, so now you've opened yourself up to cheating allegations. I don't know if you want to do that. Chris? No, no, I don't. I like winning. You do? You like winning way too much. Okay.

So, not way too much in general, way too much to cheat. Ah, yes, exactly. You would never, you would not cheat because you like winning too much is what I'm saying. Nobody can like winning too much. All right. Anyway, I went the Ben Younger route. He had two other films. Boiler Room, which is bad, but also shows you Scott Kahn's butt at one point, which in the Uvra...

It also has Nia Long, and she's amazing. She's amazing. Yes, she's like the one actress in a sea of dudes in that film. But also, he made more recently the boxing movie Bleed for this, which I did not see, with Miles Teller, who also was definitely getting Oscar buzz for a moment with Bleed for this. And did not happen. but I'm going to ask you to give me the known four for Miles Teller. Sure.

Whiplash? Correct, Whiplash. Do I think Fantastic Four is on there? The thing is, there's not a lot of Miles Teller movies, because he kind of fell off quickly because he is apparently Hiddick. Yeah, I'm going to say Fantastic Four is on there. The Bomberific Fantastic Four is absolutely on there. Cool.

I don't think Rabbit Hole is going to be on there. though, that he is great. He is. It's the one movie he's really great in. That and, weirdly enough, the Footloos remake. Which is my next guess, the Footloose Remain. It is not. Okay. He's in the fucking Divergent movie, so I'm going to say Divergent.

Not Divergent. So now you get years. It's two wrong answers. You get years. Your years are 2013 and 2013. Um, is, because 2013 is, is before whiplash. Is that the spectacular now? Yes, probably his most likable moment in, in the pop culture consciousness. He's actually really good in that movie. It's a good movie.

It's a shitty thing that he's apparently a jerk. I am bummed that James Ponsol has sort of gone away because there was a moment there where I was really, really into his movies. He also did that movie smashed with Mary Elizabeth. with Winstead. I thought the end of the tour was really charming. I know that one had expectations that didn't. We should do the end of the tour at some point. I can tell my Mamie Gummer story. We can talk about Ponsult. Yeah.

And then he did... What's my other year? Your other year is 2015. Okay. So, after Whiplash. Is that one Fantastic Four came out? I mean, is it another divergent movie? Maybe.

What's the next one called? Speaking of iambic pentameter rhyming films. Someone's going to yell at us, be like, that's not iambic pentator? I know what we mean. You know what we mean. We love you. I love when we yell at people who don't even say things to us yet. We know what people are doing about about us about there.

Hashtag me not looking closely enough in saying that Close Encounters was nominated for Best Picture. I'm sorry. You know, all the effort that you put into that game, you earned one mistake.

Honestly, do you like the real version of history or do you like my version of history with Close Encounters is a Best Picture nominee? You know, my version of history is the good one. The other divergent...

It's another divergent movie. I got it right, right? No, you need to say it. What the hell are those movies? silly movies called um there is one that does rhyme with divergent yeah it's this one they all do kind of the third one is like pushing it and then the fourth one that doesn't exist um this one had the naming convention of the divergent series colon and then what it is but weirdly the third one um just had the the word it did not have the diversion series in front of it that that god

The way that that series fell apart when everybody just immediately all at once stopped caring about YAA dystopia was really funny. Yeah. Okay. It's insurgent. It's divergent. Okay. Insurgent and Allegiant are the three of them. And insurgent is the one.

God, words no one ever says. I don't know why it's not the first divergent, why instead it is insurgent. It's not like his role in the second one is that much. more prominent than it is in the first one. He's like the character that's the villain that I think becomes, like, not a villain. But he's always, like, kind of like, Ken, you can't really trust him, right? I don't know. I don't remember much.

Sure. I read, definitely read both of those two books and did not read the third one. I read, I think I read a plot description of what happens in the third one. And I think I was just like, oh, absolutely not. Oh, no way. One of them has a really good cliffhanger. I forget which one it is, but like... I think it's the second one.

The Divergent movies have like crazy people. Like Naomi Watts is in them. Octavia Spencer is in those movies. Kate Winslet in the first Divergent movie is my platonic ideal of that moment in time where incredibly accomplished actresses were cast to play the like dystopian figurehead in movies like this.

Julian Moore. Julian Moore. Merrill Streep in the giver. The giver. Like, it was... Who's the villain in the host? I never saw the host, but also Patricia Clarkson in the Maze Runner movies absolutely qualifies for this.

Wow. I never saw the Mazeera. Let me look up the host really quickly. The host is the Sertia Ronan post-apocalyptic aliens have come. Stephanie Miller, author of Twilight. Oh, right. That is her name, right? Stephanie Mier.

No. Meyer. Right. Sorry, girl. God, there are a lot of movies called the host, including the one that most people have seen, but, like, also others. The Bongchunho one, that's incredible. There was a host movie this year, apparently, that nobody's seen. But the host with Sir Shireonan, directed by Andrew Nicol, oh, sad, Andrew Nicol.

Our beloved Gattaca, Gattaca Twilight. Is the movie basically Gattaca Twilight? What's it about? What's that? The host? The movie basically Gattaca Twilight, what's it about? The host, when an unseen enemy. threatens mankind by taking over their bodies and erasing their memories, Melanie Strider,

played by Sersha Ronan, will risk everything to protect the people she cares most about, proving that love can conquer all in a dangerous new world. Okay. Honestly, it's quarantine. I'm bored. Feel free to take over my body. This is one of those deeply annoying movies where the IMDB is listed the cast by order of appearance, which should be outlawed by a constitutional amendment, and I want Joe Biden to put that on the Democratic Party's platform for this election. You can absolutely do that in a film's credits, but you're not allowed to do

that on IMDB. All right. Looking at, I'm going on Wikipedia now, which smartly lists it by prominence, Francis Fisher seems to be our best candidate for figurehead. She's, I don't know her character in this, but let's say,

although William Hurd is also in it, so maybe William Hurt is the male version of this trend, and it did not go for a woman. Because Francis Fisher, I can see maybe being like a wise old woman who like knows something

and helps them or something. If anybody out there has seen the host and wants to educate us on the plot, I would be fascinated. Maybe we should watch the host. Look who's in this movie. Talk about a moment in time. Not searching.

Obviously, search has gone places. But like this was the Max Irons small mini era when like Max Irons was in things. and wasn't just... That doesn't mean anything to my twink facial blindness. Sad son in the wife.

Remember, Max Irons is the sad son and the wife? Talk about actors that divide us. My beloved Boyd Holbrook is in this movie. Oh, yeah. Some other people. Weird. Diane Krueger. Emily Browning in an uncredited character.

Okay. Anyway, now can I end the episode? Yes. If you want more This Had Oscar Buzz, you can check out the Tumblr at this hadoscarbuzz.com. You should also follow our Twitter account at Had underscore Oscar underscore Buzz. We very recently had another listener's choice poll that helped us choose what the last movie that we would be discussing in August would be. Your winner is the way way back.

We are very excited to talk about that movie. Feel about that in two weeks. We have a lot of... We've been doing more sort of fun slash goofy stuff. We've been previewing our monthly slate. with sort of visual guessing games. Which I put a picture of a prime rib on there and no one got it. No one got it.

I love it when there's always one movie of the four that people that nobody gets. I'm happy with that. You're very good at that game. It's been a fun thing that we've been doing to pass the time. Chris, where can the listeners find you in your stuff? On Twitter at Krispy File. That's FEIL, also in Letterbox under the same name. Indeed.

I am on Twitter. at Joe Reed. Reed is spelled R-E-I-D. I'm also on letterboxed as Joe Reed, read-spelled the exact same way. We would like to thank Kyle Cummings for his fantastic artwork and Dave Gonzalez and Gavin Muvius for their technical guidance. Please remember to rate and review us

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but we hope you'll be back next week for more bugs. Thank you.