This Had Oscar Buzz - 112 – Goya’s Ghosts

Episode Date: September 21, 2020

Famous among Oscar predictors in the mid aughts, this week’s film had high sight unseen expectations that were thwarted by a prolonged release and dismal reviews. After twice winning Best Director, Miloš Forman followed a biopic heavy run in the 90s with the costume drama Goya’s Ghosts starring Natalie Portman and Javier Bardem. Cradling the … Continue reading "112 – Goya’s Ghosts"

Uh-oh, wrong house. No, the right house. I didn't get that! We want to talk to Marilyn Hacks. An artist Renowned for his genius Do you have the reputation of mocking the men of cloth in your work?

Do I? Are you aware of how many powerful enemies you have, boy yeah? Fortunately, I also have a few very powerful friends. A woman adored for her beauty. Why doesn't that painting have a face? Because he's a ghost.

No, he is not. How do you know? But behind the art, Do you not see what demonic filth this goyer is selling? Do you painters not become very intimate with your models? Beyond the canvas. My daughter, Innes, has been summoned by the Holy Office. Innes, that's preposterous.

Is a world where the powerful are declared righteous. We have to return to the God-fearing ways of the past. And the innocent are declared guilty. What do you want me to confess? The truth. My daughter was tortured. Tell me what the truth is. Hello and welcome to the This Had Oscar Buzz podcast, the only podcast calling Hey Nanny Nani, the song of the summer.

Every week on this head Oscar Buzz, we'll be talking about a different movie that once upon a time had lofty Academy Award aspirations, but for some reason or another, it all went wrong. The Oscar hopes died, and we were here, we are, are we here, are we there? Either way, we're going to perform an autopsy. I'm your host, Chris Fyle. I'm here as always with my favorite heretic Joe Reed. Chris, I feel like we're talking about a movie that in many ways doesn't exist. And yet... Oh, no, no, no.

No, no. Oh, I thought you were disagreeing with me. I was just like, wait a second, are you going to make the case for a ghost existing? The fact that I was able to watch this on Amazon Prime... Yeah. does not at all negate the fact that the movie doesn't exist. And yet, I feel like if more people knew it existed, we would talk about it a lot, especially for everything that Natalie Portman does in the second half of this week.

The things that she does, the things that she wears, the things that are strapped onto her body by the hair and makeup department of this film. So for our listeners, we tend to keep a somewhat, not like hard and fast, but like a general rule that we don't want to talk about the movies before we get on the podcast. We don't want to, you know, burn through our material early. We want to keep the conversation fresh. So there's generally very minimal interaction between us as we're watching the movies beyond the stray, like incredulous text. It is very difficult sometimes.

The level of all caps I sent Chris last night When I'm watching this movie When I got to Natalie Portman Playing her second of two roles in this movie And I just said What did I say? I was just like not the teeth on Natalie

It's just she gets All of the teeth on Natalie In the primary role that she plays After she is out of the insane asylum Or out of the like what The Inquisition prison Yeah the Inquisition Gulag whatever it is.

She gets out of there and like everything on her body is like a shade of gray. Fifty shades of gray is about all of the different types of gray that are on Natalie Portman's body in this movie. And yet her teeth at that point of the movie is like you took the Bohemian Rhapsody teeth, like left them in a like a mossy bog for a few weeks, and then ran them through a garbage disposal. But those weren't the teeth that I was talking about when I texted you, though. What I was talking about was when she shows up again as her own daughter, prostitute character. And that's when she's got these, like, weird. Those to me are like the Rami Mollick weird British teeth prosthetic thing going on. I was just like, and I couldn't quite understand whether it was just like, we have to find a way to differentiate the characters. And it's just like, One is, like, caked in 15 years of mud from the Inquisition prison and is, like, limping around and has a swollen jaw from abuse. And all of her teeth are shipped off.

Right. And the other one is, like, a fancy, like, flamenco prostitute. And I was just like, there's no way that we're going to ever confuse these two. I don't understand why we had to give prostitute, Natalie, these, like, gangly, like, British teeth. They had to give her some feature that is, like, Javier Bardem. So I wonder if they took like a mold of Javier Bartem's teeth, made false teeth and said, Bottom line is if actress Twitter ever found out about this movie, it would be all over for you hoes. Like genuinely, we'd just never stop talking about it.

It's so wild. It's, okay, so, I mean, like, we're jumping ahead as we are prone to do. But, like, Natalie Portman plays two very teeth. Reefy roles in this movie, one of which is her own daughter that is 15 years old and is a prostitute. You said she looks like a flamenco dancer. The movie is somewhat problematic in that regard that's like, sure, sure. She is perfectly, this movie just believed that she could play someone named Lucia and Inez. Inez.

Alicia, I think. Oh, that's right, because every time they said Alicia, I was like, Vecander. Vecander. What a time. Well, her performance is so bananas, like, on every level. Because when she's playing Inez, before she gets, like, sent into the Inquisition, it's like, okay, so that woman, we're going to say is supposed to be, what, early 20s? Maybe like, she's like of age, but like young.

But like, and then the other role, the daughter role is, as you said, 15, which is far too young for Natalie to be playing. And yet that's the role. The prostitute role is the one she plays as this sort of like wizened and world weary, like woman. She's, you know, living on her own this whole time. And meanwhile, Inez, the, you know, supposedly, you know, of age woman, she plays with this like total. like that Natalie baby voice that she sometimes goes into where like she really like, like that lisp in her voice is still very prominent and, you know, she doesn't know how to answer questions and she's, you know, it's very baby voice.

But like in the second half of the movie, it's that plus bridge troll? Yes. Yeah. And I mean, again, and it's doing, again, a lot of jaw acting. There's a lot of jaw acting. We've had a very jaw acting kind of last several weeks here. on the podcast between this and a dangerous method. So, like...

I like that jaw acting, though. I don't like this jaw acting. I don't think it's Natalie's fault, but I don't think I like that jaw acting. It's... No, I don't think I like anything Natalie does in this movie. And again, I am a genuine flamenco prostitute for Natalie Portman in general.

Like, I am here for all of it. But, like, this is absolutely my least favorite performance I've ever seen of her. And you've seen the prequels, girl. Yes, and I've seen the prequels. The prequels, I also, like, it's hard to hold that against her. And I kind of, like, just sort of, like, set those aside in my mind. Sure. So, but it's a crucial era for Natalie that goes between, oh, no, this was after V for Vendetta, wasn't it?

Yeah, but it's also after her Oscar nomination, too. where it's like she still has the Oscar nomination gives an amazing performance but like there's this whole thing that maybe 50% of the population still thinks she's a bad actress Oh absolutely

Except for like people like us who love her I want to sort of maybe put a pin in this and talk about this after the plot description But like there's a wilderness that she sort of wanders in that to me goes from V for Vendetta which is sort of her like

I'm done with the prequels movie. I always feel like that's very like, I'm going to shave my head. I'm going to, you know, go all out. I'm going to do the most non-George Lucasy thing I can do. And I'm going to do V for Vendetta. And then there's a weird wilderness that she kind of wanders in that she doesn't come out of until Black Swan in 2010. And there's a lot of interesting little detours in that wilderness that I want to talk about for sure. But I don't want to like send us too far down. a path before we get to the plot description. And some of these that we're talking about are movies that we could eventually do on this podcast. Oh, yeah. And one of them is one we have done. Yeah,

yeah, yeah. And one of them is a regular punchline title on our weekly Scatigories games that will also bring up for sure. But anyway, Nat, I think there's a ton to talk about with Natalie. I think there's going to be a ton to talk about with Milosh Foreman as well, because I think that's the reason why this movie is on this list, is Mielish Foreman is a two-time best director and best picture winner. Like, those are pretty rare to come by. You know what I mean? Like, that's a very exclusive field at that point.

So, like, and, you know, he basically stopped making movies after this one, and it's tough to blame him for that. after how this turned out. But it's one of those things where it's just like, well, everything he was going to make was going to have Oscar buzz forever. After Amadeus, like, that was just like, that was the case. And he's made some really interesting movies since then.

Like, it's his run after Amadeus to the end of his career is a really interesting little selection of movies. And we'll definitely talk about that as well. As our future t-shirt says, we'll get into it. We'll get into it. Yeah, Goya's Ghost. It was originally on our last Listener's Choice episode

Lost We were both Very very non-secretly pulling for it Oh yeah, yeah We were in our text thread saying You know the real ones We're picking Goya's Ghosts You are all real ones

We love you all But Goya's Ghost I think it probably lost that poll Because people don't Either remember it or know what it is Right So maybe we should tell them It is a movie that exists

It's only in the memories of people who are really into tracking the Oscar race year-long. Oh, yeah, like people who are looking into early predictions and such, because this was such a long, drawn-out process before this movie would even open in the States. It opened, like, everywhere else but the U.S. before it finally opened here, to the point where it's like, in the fall of 06, it's one of those titles that we expected to be seeing show up at fall festivals. it goes to none of them. Yep. And that was a warning sign.

And then it opens internationally, and you see, like, reviews breaking in, still doesn't even go to Sundance of that year. And then Samuel Goldwyn buys it and opens it very quietly in the summer of 2007. Yeah, I also, I'm looking at the poster now, not only is it touted as the writer-director of Amadeus, but the producer of the English patient because it was a Salzance production. So, like, they were really, really angling the prestige on this thing.

And, God, it's just the most serif font in this poster. Like, they really are just, like, really trying to amp up the seriousness and the prestige of it all. And yet, it's such a goofy movie. And in some ways, not in a bad way. Like, we'll talk about that, too, is just, like, I think this is a really insane movie, but there are, like, certain Milos Foreman touches that I'm just like, oh, I kind of get what the good version of this movie might have been.

I don't know if you felt that way. Good version of this movie would probably be a miniseries, or would be, like, three hours long, because as it is, it's, like, four different competing movies, right? I just mean more so in terms of, like, tone. Like, there are moments of, like, really odd, almost humor in this, that, like, I was just like, oh, like, you can, like, that you really sort of pinpoint the mullish formant in that. And I'm just like, oh, if a couple other things maybe went better.

I don't know. I have, I have fundamental issues with what this movie is that we can get into. Also, but, uh, yeah, don't want to get too ahead of ourselves. Okay. Well, then, uh, let's just set the table for the 60-second plot description. Once again, ladies and gentlemen, we are here to talk about Goya's. Ghosts, written and directed by Milo Schoorman, co-written by Jean-Claude Carrier, honorary Oscar winner, starring Javier Bar-Dem, Natalie Portman, Stellanskarskard, the inexplicable Randy Quaid, Jose Luis Mises, Michael Lonsdale, as I mentioned, its first premiere was when it opened in Spain of November of 2006, didn't open stateside until the next July of 2007. Yeah, that's true. Joseph, yes. Would you like to accept your position of the unenviable task of giving a 60-second plot description for Goya's Ghosts?

Yes, in fairness, this is all going to be wildly, probably stupid sounding about the Inquisition, but yes. Yes. We are not European historians. We sure aren't. We are Oscar historians, damn it. Yeah, exactly. All right. If you are ready, I will start the timer.

And, yeah, I'm ready. All right. 60-second plot description from Joseph Reed on Goya's Ghosts starts now. It's the late 18th century, and somehow the Inquisition is still a thing. And Francisco Goya, played by Stall and Scarsgaard, is a painter of some renown. He paints the queen on top of horse. He paints a pretty young woman named Inez. He played by Natalie Portman.

He paints an inquisitor priest named Lorenzo, played by Javier Bardem. One day, the Inquisition sees Ines refusing to eat pork at a time. tavern, and they assume she's Jewish, because that's how they are, and they haul her in for questioning and torture her and imprison her, and her family invites Goya and Lorenzo over for dinner, and the father ends up torturing Lorenzo and forces him to sign a document, claiming he's a monkey to prove that torture doesn't work, and the church is very embarrassed by this, and they banish Lorenzo, and then 15 years later, Napoleon invades, and the Inquisition is ended, and the priests are imprisoned, and the prisoners are freed, including Anez, who had

a baby by rapy Lorenzo and is now looking for it. Lorenzo, meanwhile, returns to Madrid, and this time is a Voltaire spouting French sympathizer, and Goya confronts him with Inez, and they find the daughter, who's a toothy prostitute, who is also played by Natalie Portman, and the English invade, and the daughter hooks up with an English soldier, and Inez finds her grandbaby on the floor of a tavern, and then she adopts her, and Lorenzo gets publicly executed by the revived Inquisition, and Goya just watches it in his death. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, the last half hour of this movie is the part of the movie that is insane. It's fully insane. Here's my... It's fully insane, because you have Ines, who,

who's a teenage prostitute, who has a baby, or not Ines, that's, that's, uh, Alicia. And Ines is, like, looking for her baby who she doesn't realize is already, well, like, uh, basically for those times, a grown woman, I guess, but like, right, she's been, she's been in isolation all this time, right? She's lost all sense of time in reality. Yeah, she doesn't know how long she was in there for. She thinks her baby is still a baby. And then when she sees Alicia's baby, who is, like, abandoned in a bar raid. Just chilling beneath the table. Yeah, and she just sees a baby and says, it's my baby.

Turns out it's her grandbaby. Yes. It's wild. And, like, those are, like... She goes to the execution of Javier Bardem, who raped her while she was in the Inquisition. Right. And she thinks they're in love, and, like, she shows up to his execution, like, brandishing this baby in the sky.

Like, look, I found our baby. It's the most like, you-hoo, and she's so weird. I mean, obviously, the circumstances are horrific, but like... Horrific, horrific. Yeah. Okay, here's my biggest problem with the movie. Yeah, and maybe you can tell me I'm up a creek. But, like, this movie is not about Goya to a degree that I feel like is useless.

Like, I get the idea... It should be called Goya's Ghost. That, like, it's called Goya's Ghost, but Goya isn't the most important character. He's more of an observer. He's a facilitator of, like, I don't even know what, but, like. But he's so unimportant. Yeah. That it, like, that it, I, any kind of statement that maybe Foreman was trying to make about, um, like, famous historical figures not being the central figure of their own lives or something like that is completely lost because it's just like there's,

what is what is Goya supposed to be in this movie is he like a symbol of like watching your country

sort of like go from one repressive regime to another to another like I don't think that's really the case

is he a symbol of like arts inability to affect real change because he just sort of like stands there and observes

as like all of the stuff happens which is like the thing that is said in the first scene

of the movie where the Spanish Inquisition and the Cardinals, whatever their position is, they're almost labeling him a heretic, but Javier Bardem is like, no, he is just depicting the evil of our country as it is. And it's like, okay, well, you've made that point.

We have two hours left in this movie. Right, right. Two hours left and like a whole lot of Goya just sort of like standing on the sidelines and sometimes going increasingly deaf. And he literally screams the words, I'm deaf at Natalie Portman. He does.

It's true. As her jaw tries to, like, I don't know, consume her shoulder. But so I do feel like there are certain biographical details about Fulman's life that are pertinent to this and that I do think emerge in at least some semi-interesting ways where it's just like he's from Czechoslovakia, from like Iron Curtain, Czechoslovakia. He, his mother died in Auschwitz, the man who he thought was. was his father, also was killed by the Nazis. He later found out that somebody else was his father in Czechoslovakia.

He and, I believe, his brother, both leave Czechoslovakia in 1968, following the invasion of Czechoslovakia by the other Warsaw Pact countries after the Prague Spring. So, like, and he's sort of representative of this kind of Czech artistic vanguard of the moment where there was this sort of just like this artistic revival that, you know, was sort of part and parcel of the Prague Spring. Then he, you know, emerges from Czechoslovakia, he makes, most notably, One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest in 1975, wins the Best Picture Oscar, also with Best Director, Actor, Actress, and Screenplay, One of, it's still only three movies that have ever done that, right? Yes. That, it happened one night. Nothing since Silence of the Lambs has done it.

Right, exactly. Then makes nine years later Amadeus, which also wins Best Picture and Best Director, in addition to Best Actor for F. Murray Abraham, and has a really fascinating career from there. But I think just the facts of his growing up in, you know, amid Nazi occupation in World War II, And then Cold War Russian occupation and influence in post-World War II, it very much informs the POV of this movie, which is we watch, initially it's the Inquisition that is the oppressive regime that is, you know, menacing certain members of Spanish society. And then it's Napoleon who comes in and runs Roughshod and, like, banishes the Inquisition, but it's like, you know, out with the old, oppressive regime in with the new one. He installs his brother as the king of France, who was like a real duncy dumb dumb, who like speaks in fully American inflected English, which I think is

really interesting, and doesn't understand a Hieronymus Bosch painting and finds it like disgusting. And then by the end of the movie, the French are overtaken by the British who like are just as brutal as the French were. And all of that to me is a pretty important. effective, and B, like, absolutely a, you know, a strong POV from Foreman about how just like one man's sort of liberating revolution is another man's crushing oppression. And I think it comes from, you know, a POV of somebody who saw the Nazis get routed by the Russians who then, you know, put their thumb down on Czechoslovakia just as much. So that all to me... It's a whole, like, entry into this material that's far more interesting than the movie ever is, or, like, you describing it that way feels developed in a way that that is not fully developed in the movie.

Well, right. And I think that's because we're following these characters who are, to one degree or another, fairly absurd, but not, like, my question to this movie is always, like, how absurd are we supposed to be finding this really? how much of this is intentional or accidental, especially the Portman character. Like, that's where the quote that she relayed at that one Hollywood reporter roundtable that you love so much really, really comes into play. My beloved. Explain that moment. Like, because you've talked about it on the podcast before,

but, like, this is the movie that it's referring to. So, like, set up up. Okay, so this is the Black Swan Year of the Best Actress Roundtable. It's probably my favorite one in hindsight now. It's such a rudimentary setup of that round. It really is. It looks like shit. The audio isn't great. There's like a power cord hanging behind Helena Bonham Carter. It's like it's the prototype of what the best actress roundtable has like become where it is incredibly produced now and like they have publicists going in there and like telling them how to like angle themselves. Amy Adams is there and actually speaks in this one. Yeah. It's very it's very catch as catch can in a very interesting and fun way. and the lineup of women is stellar. We'll absolutely post it in the Tumblr,

but go back and watch it because it's very different than what you're used to seeing now, but it also has several of my favorite moments, including Hillary Swank going on and on and on about the movie People Like Us and how she didn't get the part or whatever. And at that time, it was announced that Amy Adams, who she is sitting right next to...

Turned it down, right? turn they were they had either like cast her or like it was preliminarily announced that it was her and at that point she had in fact said no i'm not going to do the movie and it eventually went to elizabeth thanks but hillary swank is going on like the greatest role i've ever read it's the greatest role i've ever read it's from these transformer guys i don't like sci-fi but it's not sci-fi blah blah blah blah blah and uh my memory was that it was helena bottom carter that was the shit stirer but No, in fact, it is Annette Benning who jumps in and says, oh, well, you are playing that part, aren't you, Amy? Yes. And then Pandemonium pursues Amy Adams' like backtracking like, uh, uh, trying to be polite, trying to like spare Hillary's feelings. Yeah. Well, and ultimately she says she doesn't want to do it because at that point her daughter was really young and she wanted to take a step back from work to be like there with her daughter. But you could also tell that Amy was like that script.

Like that one that I didn't really want to do anyway. It's so funny. Yeah. Yeah. So, wait, let's run down the lineup, though, because it's, it's Helen Abottom Carter. Representing the King's Speech. Natalie Portman. Yes.

Annette Benning. Yes. Nicole Kidman. Yes. Hillary Swank. Yes. For, I'm guessing, Amelia? No, conviction.

Oh, it's the conviction year. It's the conviction year. We need to do conviction. We should. We should. We should do conviction at some point. And then Amy Adams. So it's like this indicative of this like incredibly strong actress year at the Oscars where like Kidman, Benning Portman are all nominated that year along with Jennifer Lawrence and Michelle Williams.

Helena and Amy are both nominated and supporting and then like and Hillary Swank as the unnominated conviction. I try not to be a jerk and stuff, but like. I know. You watch this best actress roundtable and you get why people don't really like Hillary Swank. She's a little annoying. Yes, she is. But anyway, so the pertinent moment for us. I try not to be a jerk.

But the pertinent moment that comes up, the one that has fully... I've remembered Goya's Ghosts as an entity because of this. Oh, that's interesting. And not because of the movie. Yeah. They're talking about, I think, actors' notes or something. And Natalie Portman shimes in and says, I did a movie with Milo Scho Form. Oh, wait, wait.

Wait, no, before that, because I, I want to make sure that we give Annette's moment her due, because Annette goes on a really funny sort of runner about working with Mulesh Forman on Valmont and about how he, like, never spared the actor's feelings and was, like, kind of mean about it and would, like, parrot their bad line readings back to them in this, like, very sort of, like, harsh way. And Annette telling the story is from, like, her, like, long years later perspective, is trying to just be like, but, you know, he was right. and, you know, all this sort of stuff.

But just like, and just a very kind of funny impersonation of Milash's voice. And it's just like, and then so during this whole thing, Natalie is next to Annette, and she's just sort of like watching with like rapt attention. And you can tell she's got a story for it. And then when Annette's done, she chimes in. I got to work with Milosh a few years ago, and he gave me one of the best directions. You're acting like this is a bad movie. But this is not a bad movie.

This is a good movie. You are acting like you are in a bad movie. and this is not a bad movie. It's a good movie. Unfortunately, Milosh was wrong about that note because she, regardless, it is a bad movie. But I thought of that quote throughout her performance because I'm just like, she is acting like she's in a bad movie. It's not a good movie, but like...

But okay, did she respond to the note and like, is the performance such as it is on screen the performance Milosh wanted that it was... I don't know. I don't know. acting like she's in a good movie? That's crazy. Yeah. Yes. Is this, was this a corrective from whatever she was doing that Milosh did think was acting like in a bad movie? And like, I wonder what that means, whether she was being too self-serious, whether it was, um, it's so hard to tell. And it's hard to tell in what role

he was critiquing her performance in is the other thing. And that's what I like died in now. What if the only, what if I meet Natalie Portman and the only question I ask her is about that moment from Goya's Ghosts and just like, were you, was it about you playing Alicia or was it about you playing Inez? And she's just sort of like, looks at me and is like, sir, this is an Arby's and fully does not remember making Goya's ghosts. So for my entire lifetime of knowing about this movie until five minutes into watching this movie, I assumed that Javier Bardem played Goya in this film.

Because- That I knew. That I knew was not the thing. I knew that he was a priest because, like, from the photos that I'd seen of the movie, I was like, oh, uh, Javier Bredem in a bunch of, like, robes and capes. I see. That seems like all I knew of him was the poster, and the poster is just sort of like him and Natalie sort of their painted faces and Stel and Scarscar's got kind of...

Right, because the poster even, like, shoves Stelan Scars Gar's Goya. Right. And he's sort of lurking in the background with this, like, very, like, stereotypical, uh, painters palette, whatever you call that. And, like, he's, he's the third lead of the movie, but he's a distant third. A very distant third. A very distant third. This sort of goes into my problems with the movie again. It was just like, making Goya an observer is like a cute idea, but you got to do something with it. And I don't think the movie ever really does anything with it.

Right. It's like naming Gone Girl after the Carrie Coon character. Gone Go. Yeah, Gone Go. Go Girl. Go, my God. What if Gone Girl is called Go Girl? That would be... I mean, that's how we feel when we watch it.

It's true. Go off. Go, go off, Amazing Amy. She did that. I'm like... Amazing Amy truly is like actress Twitter personified, where it's just like, she did that. She did that for us.

She didn't have to go that hard. Amy, Amazing Amy, is the personification of she didn't have to go that hard. But she didn't have to go that hard. But she did for us. Yeah. Okay. Anyway. Actress Twitter is very, um, perhaps, uh, absolutely okay with murder.

Oh, yeah, there's no perhaps about it. Like, one million percent true. Yes. More murder, the better as far as we're concerned. Yes. Okay. So, Milosh Foreman, I want to talk about the Milose Formen after Amadeus sort of run. Because Annette Benning, when touched on it briefly, she did a film in 1989 for him called

Belmont, which was like, you know how there are sometimes like just like two movies on the same subject in production at the same time? And it's just like an odd phenomenon where it's... We got this a ton in the odds. And like, it doesn't really seem to happen anymore because the industry has like changed and everything's so like prepared far out. But yes, absolutely this. Like, sometimes it's volcano and Dante's Peak where, like, some people like one and some people like the other, and they're generally on the same plane. Or Armageddon Deep Impact. Right. But in this case, Infamous Capote.

Dangerous Liaisons. Well, that's the thing. Dangerous Liaisons is the Capote in this situation, where it gets nominated for all the Oscars. It's the one everybody remembers. It's, you know, the big dog. And then Valmont is the, wait, what's the other Capote movie called? Infamous. Infamous.

Valmont is absolutely the infamous, where it's just like, people really don't remember much, which is kind of funny because Milash Foreman is a far more respected director than Stephen Frears is. I think Stephen Frears definitely has his moments, but he also makes a lot of crap. So, but Valmon at least gets like a costume design nomination, but that's like, that's the lowest, that's the lowest goal of the totem pole for dangerous liaisons. It's dangerous liaisons, kind of like runs the gamut. Does it get the director nomination? I don't think it did. Wait, so it would be 88. So you look it up while I try and guess. That's a year, but I think it's only three for three. I will look it up.

So Levinson for Rain Man definitely also gets director because he wins. I don't think Mike Nichols is nominated for Working Girl. No, actually, I think that you are right. No, Dangerous Liaisons does not get the director nomination. I'm trying to think of, like, what would have, because I don't think accidental tourist gets a director nomination either, does it? Here's the director lineup. Barry Levinson wins for Rain Man, the weirdest director win in, like, the past 30 years. I don't know.

I mean, that's a best picture, best director, you know, tandem. That to me doesn't seem that weird. Alan Parker for Mississippi Burning. Yes. Mike Nichols does get nominated for Working Girl. And then it's Charles Crichton for a fish called Wanda and Martin Scorsese for Our Last Temptation of Christ. Right. That is a very interesting, best director lineup for sure.

Fascinating. Yes. Sorry, where was I? Yeah, so Valmont, Colin Firth, plays Valmont, Annette Benning as Mertull. Is that how we pronounce French things? Sure. Magtile's in it for Ruzabalk, my beloved for Ruzabalk. Sean Phillips, who is the, played the Reverend Mother in the David Lynch Dune,

now played by Charlotte Rampling in the Dune upcoming Villeneuve Dune that I cannot fucking wait for. Charlotte Rampling with a full, like, full body face veil from the legendary house of Atreides. If there wasn't, if I wasn't already like, yes, I am excited to see Dune, the second I saw Charlotte Rambling in that trailer, my ass. was already not in the theater because I am not going

to movie theaters but like it was in it was like how do I get VR to like put me in a I will say

if they do this like rent out a theater foolishness that they're doing for Tenet for Dune I would do that for Dune I think I think we're planning

to do it for Dune yeah it's a good idea what is your familiarity with Dune as a franchise have you seen the David Lynch

Yes, I have. I have not read the books. I've felt the peer pressure to read the books. I would. The books are pretty dense. I tried to read the book and I sort of was thwarted. It's like 800 pages. I become the meme of, I ain't reading all that, but I'm happy for you or sad that happened. Yeah, I might try and do it again. I watched the David Lynch version, but I also watched the sci-fi channel mini-series, Dune and then Children of Dune, which is actually how I first ever saw, James McAvoy in Children of Dune. Rex is a Desert Planet. Yes, Aracus Desert Planet. Virginia Madsen,

voiceover, iconic. I'm so excited. I'm so excited for Dune. I'm, I can't wait. But the fact that the trailer, A, is like wall-to-wall Charlotte Rampling voiceover, which amazing. And then B, like crescendos with

Dark Side of the Moon is fucking amazing. it's like could not have been more like a children's chorus oh it's so good oh my god remember the the like years of uh trailers just having children choruses of rock song oh yeah social network for sure um we should absolutely bring that back yeah but it wasn't just social network a lot of different like bad action movies that wanted to look more serious than they were yeah did that too yeah um let billy ilish do all of that let her lead a children's choir let billy ilish do a song for every movie that is the theoretically scare quotes being released this fall because her bond song is great. Very good. Very true. So back to Milosh Foreman, though. He does Valmont in 1989. He has, I mean, to the degree that he needed to make a comeback, he has a bit of a comeback in 96 with the People versus Larry Flint, which doesn't get a best picture nomination, but does get a best director nomination for him.

Was like one of the big expected, like, best picture players of that season, too. I think that's how the, like, loan director nomination shows up for that movie, is that it was so, like, the hype for it was real in terms of Oscar? Yes, absolutely. Well, and what was the studio on People v. Larry Flint? That was... I just watched this movie. Columbia. It was Columbia Pictures.

And so that was in that big, famous year of everything indie, like Jerry McGuire was the only studio movie in the best picture field that year. So, like, People v. Larry Flint never really felt like it fit the narrative. of that year because it was a studio movie. And it was released at, like, Christmas. I think it premiered at, like, New York Festival. Yeah, that would make sense. It definitely was a Christmas movie. Christmas Day.

Christmas Day 96, go watch a Larry Flint movie. But, like, even, like, Woody Harrelson's best actor nomination that year felt kind of, like, outside of everything that was going on. It was sort of happening in its own sphere. There was a whole thing. The Courtney Love of it all, like, the Academy was never going to go for Courtney Love at that time. Courtney Love, though, was the aspect of that movie that did kind of fit in with the narrative, with the indie narrative of that year. Because I think we talked about this before, about that SNL sketch that was like Courtney Love and Madonna and Debbie Reynolds, who all got snubbed by the Oscars that year. It's coffee talk, right?

That was a coffee talk. Maybe. That very well, that's very possible. Yeah. It's the one where Sherry O' Terry, as Debbie Reynolds calls Madonna mattress back, which I think is so fucking funny. Um, but yeah, I think that's, I think, the most, because Courtney Love being in that movie at that time, she would, had only been, I think, at that point in feeling Minnesota, which I think might have been that same year or maybe just the year before or whatever. But, like, she was. Had not yet been in 200 cigarettes. Right. She was still very much this, like, very kind of maverick choice for this role. And she's great in it. She's like, super fantastic. He works with her again. on his next movie, which is Man on the Moon, with Jim Carrey.

The Andy Kaufman biopic, would absolutely talk about it. Was there, like, behind the scenes stuff on that movie with him and Courtney and Jim Carrey? Did everybody get along? I can't remember that. If I'm remembering correctly, Carrie was, like, method on that movie, and I think pissed some people off. I think it was Courtney, because I think when they did that documentary about him, on Netflix a couple years ago, which I actually remember really liking. And I remember him being like Super Method, and I think it alienated Courtney to some degree.

I could be wrong. Anyway, somebody correct me if I'm wrong about that. But anyway, it – and so I think once you got to Man on the Moon, you really get a sense of looking back through his career. And it's like he really does trend towards making movies about iconoclasts, right? where it's, you know, it's Amadeus, it's McMurphy, and One Flew of the Cuckoo's Nest, it's Larry Flint, it's Andy Kaufman, and it's these figures who... Salieri.

Right, but it's these... Alexa, play Salieri. But it's these figures who, and this is why I mentioned, you know, Amadeus more so than Salieri, is just like these figures who sort of like clash against their times and whatever, and which is why Goya's ghosts feel such an odd fit with this because at every turn, Goya sort of declines to be that iconoclast in this movie. And he sort of blends into the tapestry. And even when he's trying to sort of do good things for Inez after she gets out of the asylum, or like, you know, it always feels like he's,

if not defending the status quo. Like the fact that at that dinner with Inez's parents, and he's the one who's, like, trying to get them to stop this stunt that they're doing, stunt queen, extraordinaire, and as his father, with Lorenzo, with, you know, making him sign the document saying he's a monkey or whatever, and Goya's only participation in that is, like, trying to get them to stop, and he gets, like, thrown out of the house before the interesting thing happens. And it's just, like, he's so defending the status quo of that moment, and I don't know. again, feels like a message was on the horizon there, and it never gets followed through on. Mm-hmm.

I don't know. What do you feel? Like, how do you feel about, like, Foreman's career in general? Uh, I mean, I think he's fascinating. His later work, I don't think, is very good. I don't even really care for people versus Larry Flint, to be honest. I thought it was just a pretty, I don't, here's my thing. I don't care for Alexander Karazuski script collaborations.

All of their movies are exactly the same. Even like my problems with Dolomite were absolutely the fact that they had written it because like all of their movies are structured exactly the same. What did you think about OJ though? American Crime Story and OJ Simpson. I still have to watch American Crime Story. You know how I feel about Ryan Murphy. It's so, so good, though.

It genuinely... I'm sure it is. I'm sure it's the one. And I know that, like, he has so little to do with that show. Yeah, Scott and Alexander and Larry Karazuski's filmography is as fascinating as any Autour Filmmaker's filmography, where it's Problem Child, Problem Child 2. Every one of their screenplays hit the same exact marks every time, and it drives me crazy. go on explain this i don't know it's just like

like dolomite is the same movie i can't even say like people are going to not understand what i'm saying but like the structure of how like underdogs in their movies like are underestimated and then they have success and then they still don't ever have like mainstream success or like mainstream understanding like all of their movies are the same. Like, to me, Dolomite hits the same eyes as big eyes, hits the same notes as

Man on the Moon. Ed Wood, they did the screenplay for Ed Wood. Ed Wood, even though, like, I like Ed Wood. I mean, like, I like parts of Man on the Moon, and I love Dolomite other than, like, the fact that I know everywhere it's going, because I know it's written by them. So they have all of those movies, and yet the other ones that sort of fill out their filmography are Problem Child and Problem Child, too. Amazing. The That Darn Cat remake with Christina Ricci and famous Jamaican bobsledder, Dougie Doug. Their directing effort, which was the movie screwed with Norm MacDonald and Danny DeVito,

that I wouldn't watch if I was under threat of violence. And they did the screenplay for 1408, the Stephen King. King adaptation with John Cusack and Samuel L. Jackson that I absolutely saw in the theater. So, yeah, it's interesting that they have all these very, very samey sort of like

biopic films, the ones that you mention. And then dumb, dumb, dumb comedy. It's very strange. Anyway, love O'Jason's side of it. I do wish Goya's Ghost was more Amadeus, which, like, was an early

quarantine movie for me to see for the first time, but it's like, it's so, like, it's funny and, like, hysterical, but, like, you still get to, like, enjoy all of this, like, I don't know, eye candy of costumes and such, but, like, it has an absolute perspective on its, like, its setting, its time period, whereas Goya's Ghost is just this giant Michigas and a mess and has none of those things where it feels like, to some of your earlier points, it feels like it could have been more of an Amadeus type of... Right. One little note I had about Milus Foreman in doing my research about his career is he was

the head of the Venice Film Festival jury in 2000 that gave their best actor award to Javier Bardem for Before Night Falls. That was the big breakthrough year for Javier Bardem. he ends up getting an Oscar nomination for that, loses to Russell Crow for Gladiator. But I wonder, reading that, I was just like, oh, it's interesting, I wonder if from that moment

that Foreman had his eye to work with Bardem in this movie. It's funny that this is our second Bardem movie in a couple months after Mother, of course, where I was sort of so-so on him in Mother. You did not care for him very much. much in mother at all.

He was sort of the worst part of it for you. He's just miscast in that movie. He might be miscast in this movie, too. I was going to say, how do you feel about him in this movie? He's such a villain. Yeah, and like, he is clearly a villain, but the movie sometimes feels confused, and I think the performance feels confused if he is or not, but, like, he so clearly is. Like, he is one of the, like, movers and shakers of, like, the actual Inquisition.

Right. He rapes Inez. And, like, yeah, especially, I mean, like, the movie does kind of go through this shift in its second half, right? When the Inquisition is over and Napoleon is invading and it's like, it does kind of shift everybody's position, right? Like, even Goya's, like, death at this point and that's when he really has nothing to do with the movie. And Lorenzo comes back as this sort of, like, convert. to French Enlightenment, right? Right.

But it's still, I like that, I like that section for his character the most, because it's so, Bardem plays this character as such a phony and kind of like very obviously a phony, but like, I think that works in that regard. And he's so, um, just the way that like, when he's showing that Hieronymus Bosch painting to Napoleon's brother, and Napoleon's brother is clearly like, a, you know, boorish about it. It's just like, I don't find that a pleasant day in the country at all or whatever. And Lorenzo is so appeasing about it and is so just like, well, some people like it. And clearly this is not up to your standard or whatever. And he's so deferential and gross about it all. And again, I think Foreman really is trying to make some points about how certain, you know, people will sort of, you know, with the flow of whatever oppressive regime is coming through and yada yada.

And there was also a lot of talk at the time. This is sort of pivoting away from bardom for a second. But there was a lot of talk at the time about this movie as a commentary on American torture practices during the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Sure. I mean, especially this era when like movies are kind of starting to grapple with that. it's hard to even decontextualize images of torture on screen, and they're pretty horrific in this movie from what was actually going on in the rest of the world. The particular mode of torture in this is the people are, their wrists are bound behind their back, and they're, like, lifted into the air, and essentially, like, their arms are being, like, slowly, like, almost separated from their body. And it's just, and both Portman and Bortem when they're in these scenes of it, it's just this agonizing, just like, you know, pain and screaming and torture.

And it's like obviously awful. But it's also like that those are the two moments in the movie where everything feels the most sort of authentically serious and grave. whereas almost everything else there is this almost like mischievous sense of satire at the edges of everything Am I wrong? I don't think I'm wrong about that.

Yeah, no, like that's the thing that I feel like could have made this movie work if that was more pronounced because like you're kind of left questioning if it's supposed to be there or not like it's so undefined. Yes. And this makes me wonder

if like the version that eventually made it to the screen is like way chopped down from like a three hour version of this where you have that more clear that yeah yeah has that kind of amadeus winking nature to some of it yeah no you're right this is also as you noted in our uh in our outline this is the same year 2007 when it finally makes it into uh american theaters quote unquote theaters i would love to know what theaters actually played go as ghosts upon its release. But 2007, of course, the same year as Javier Bardem's Oscar for No Country for Old Man. Which, like, if there was anything helping this movie get swept under the rug. Yeah. Immediately. Yeah.

That I think was... All of Javier Bredem's management team were just like, uh, no, thank you. Scrub this movie, scrub this movie. But it's also the same year as... Norbit's Ghost. Yes, Norbit's Ghost. no thank you this whole week preparing for this episode

I had been thinking of I was walking with a ghost Oh wait what song is that I was walking with a ghost Yeah Great song But this is also the same year as Hotel Chevalier Where it's like naked Natalie Portman

And the internet entirely freaked out over it So let's do the Portman thing now. I think that's a good That's a good pivot to Portman. So as I said, as you mentioned, 2004, she gets the Oscar nomination for

Closer. So well deserved. She wins the Golden Globe. So well deserved. It is towards the end of her Star Wars career. By this point, we all knew that Star Wars was not the gift to her career that she and we and America may have hoped it would have been. So Star Wars

Episode 3, 2005, and then she's finally free of it. That same year, she does V for Vendetta with the Wachowski's and completely like, shaves off her head, like shaves off her hair, kind of pivots into this sort of badass persona. She also does around that time she does the SNL hosting gig Damn Natalie You are crazy chick You shut the fuck up and suck my

I'm fussing do with vows like Gushers Motherfiel Roll up on NBC Inspector Now Jess Tucker What you want Natalie To drink and fight What you need Natalie

To fuck on night Where she does the rap And she's just like It's it's you know It's career pivot time for Natalie Portman and it was very, very necessary. But so then she, again, as I say, sort of like wanders this desert where she's in the one segment of Paris Chetam.

Did she direct a segment, or was she just in it? I think she, I'll double check. I think she directs in New York, I love you. I think that's what it is. Ah, yes, that's what it is. But, like, it's definitely a period of her kind of, I mean, not the armchair psychologist, but, like, reacting to the whole.

Star Wars of it all. She even goes and does an Israeli film called Free Zone. Right. Co-starring my beloved Yamabus. Yes. She makes Wangar-Wise American debut in My Blueberry Nights, a movie. The disastrous My Blueberry Nights. That was one that I think a lot of people were looking for as an Oscar play, obviously with Wangar-Wi sort of translating into the American idiom and did not work. One of her three films with Jude Law, the iconic Portman Law film Uber,

which I think is such a funny, like, triptych. Like, one of these days, just watch Cold Mountain and Closer and my blueberry nights all on the same night and see what that does to your brain. As you said, then Hotel Chevalier, which is the short film that was released in conjunction with the Darjeeling Limited. Does she show up at all in actual the Dershieling Limited?

It's like for like half a second, right? Yes, for like half a second. Right. I hate that movie. I love that movie. Sorry. I hate that movie. That, of course, the iconic, absolutely indelible.

Hermogorium's Wonder Emporium. Yes, indeed. Mr. Magoriam's Wonder Emporium, the movie that every time we do a Natalie Portman co-stars or Dustin Hoffman co-stars in this category as somebody gets the full idea that they're going to remember anything else about Mr. Magoriam's Wonder Emporium.

It never works. It never works out. What a moment in time that was. And then 2008, the indelible double feature of the other Berlin Girl and the other woman, which... The other woman which premieres that year and doesn't get released for like another year and a half.

So like this whole thing of like delayed movies kind of got like stamped on to Natalie Portman for a minute because even the other Bolein girl was supposed to be an Oscar season movie. We'll absolutely eventually do an episode on it. And then it got pushed to like the spring. The other woman is a Don Roos movie, Don Roos who I absolutely adore, who made the opposite of sex and boys on the side. He wrote boys on the side. I don't think he directed it. And who we talked about when we did our episode on Bounce. Yeah. He also made happy endings. Some, like, fantastic actress collaborations with that.

Wait, he also did the screenplay for the Guernsey Literary and Potato Pie Society movie? I think we had, yeah, the potato movie. I think we had listeners being like, he did the potato movie. I probably just forgot. Long time listeners know that we were fascinated by the potato. You know what movie he also wrote, as I'm seeing here on his filmography, your recent unfave Lovefield Oh, Jesus Christ, I caught up to Lovefield recently

And it's absolutely abysmal He also wrote the screenplay for single white female Don Roos is a very fascinating filmography That is one we don't talk about interestingly enough In terms of queer excellence And sometimes non-excellance as Lovefield shows But he gave me boys on the side That counts for a lot

Anyway, other boleyn girl, other woman, 2008, 2009, Natalie Dynamo. As I mentioned, 2009, she acts in and directs in two separate segments of New York. I love you, which I didn't see the American offshoot of Paris Chetem. That, I don't know, seemed fine. I didn't. I think once they were like one segment is Brett Ratner's segment, I was just like, okay, don't do that. Don't do that to me. I got to go.

I got to go, y'all. I had just moved to New York then, too. So it was just like, oh, my God, this new city of mine. You can live your own New York. You don't need to go to the cinema to love it. Yeah, 2009 Brothers, which we did an episode on, which is her sort of like inching back into prestige drama. And it almost made it.

Like, Brothers is like very, very close to being sort of back in the moment, but wasn't quite. And then 2010, well, she makes him. Hesher, which, like, nobody remembers except for, who is it? Scatigories Night. I was going to say Scatigories Night. Hesher is always remembered as a summer movie. Good for us.

Good for everybody. And then Black Swan. And see, and then Black Swan, I think, is just like Natalie's back, motherfuckers. And, yeah. God, it's such a great. I don't know. It's for, this is a very odd era of her career, right? Like, this is the most sort of.

undefinable era of her career where people don't really know what to do with her because as like as is sometimes her problem and is oftentimes her great success Natalie Portman loves a choice and like perhaps the problem with Goya's ghost

is that like Natalie Portman is given a lot of choices that she gets to make. But, like, I don't know. Jackie is, like, the choice is the voice. Black Swan, like, the choice is this, like, wounded little girlness that, like, approaches everything. Yeah. And I don't know.

I'm trying to think of some of the other, like... I mean, Vox Lucks is Choice the movie. Like, Vox Lux is nothing but a choice. Voxloss, again, the choice is the voice. The choice is the voice. But it's the singing voice. No, it's also the accent. You're totally right.

Like, that, like, that tough chick accent. It's so, God, fucking Vox Lux is so great. I feel like you made the excellent point in the past that, like, one of the reason she's so great in annihilation is there is no choice or no, like, discernible one. It's just a great performance. I will ride. It's kind of this, like, raw. It's also just a, it's a depression, basically. And it's a movie star.

carrying a film that is some, like, really tough intellectual material, right? Where it's just like, it's hard to wrap your head around what's going on in Annihilation. Annihilation. But she absolutely carries you through it because she's a fucking movie star. And, I mean, I will go to the mat for the fact that Annihilation is one of her all-time great performances and deserved an Oscar nomination. Yeah, she's fantastic. Also, Lucy in the sky, the choice is the haircut, right? Well, and also the choice is the voice.

The choice is the voice. Okay, maybe, if we're looking for, you know, merch alert, like, the choices of the voice is also a, just the choice of the voice with, like, a silhouette of Natalie Portman, something, I don't know. Something that we couldn't get sued for using her likeness. I guess maybe her reverse profile. that would work for Lucy in the sky. Lucy in the sky, which we both saw together fully in a bad mood, and we were like, this is not going to cover. Why were we in such a bad mood for that screening?

I can't remember. We were, though. We were in. It was just like the 19th day of Tiff. We were exhausted at that point. We knew it was going to be bad and probably not fun bad. Yeah. Who knew that that was one of the last movies we'd ever see at Tiff?

I know. Well, for now, for now, for now. We'll be back. I hope so. Yeah. Natalie. So, yeah, it's not a good performance. I just, I keep trying, you know, you know me and Natalie.

It's genuinely, I think, the wildest thing I've ever seen her, too. Yeah. And that's saying something. That's genuinely saying quite a bit. I don't know if it's fun, though. Like, I guess the most, like. It's not fun. It's absolutely not fun.

And the movie. Yeah. And the most, like, absorbed by it was, when she was on screen because I was like, you know what, Natalie, do you, you go for this, you do this. And I suppose post-Oscar nomination, this is like the first big choice that she makes, right? That's why we all had it on our Oscar predictions, because it was Natalie coming off of closer where she got kind of, you know, overtaken in that Oscar race by Blanchet, but there were a lot of people, me included, who thought she, you know, at some point in that race, thought she had a, uh, a target on Oscar for that. It didn't feel like she was second place come Oscar ceremony, but like I think for a large

portion of that season, she was second place. Yes, I think that's true. I think Virginia Madsen ultimately probably gets second place. Was second place at the end of the day. I agree. But so that's why everybody was looking at this of just like she's leveling up. She's working with Milosh Foreman, two-time Oscar winning director. He directed Woody Harrelson to his first nomination for Larry Flint.

And she's, this is it. This is her moment. She's, you know, it sounds like an important title. Goya's Ghost just sounds very artistic and important. And it just fully doesn't happen. Can we detour for half a second and talk about the fact that within a two-year span, Randy Quaid starred in Brokeback Mountain and Goya's Ghosts with Mulesh-Forman? and in this one plays King Charles of Spain.

Like, I, you, that was one of the times where you broke the texting rule. I did, embargo, yeah. Not Randy Quay! I was not prepared. I fully admitted a sound out of my mouth. I was not silent when he showed up on screen. I must have missed his screen credit. I fully missed his screen credit.

I was not ready either. He, again, is, I think, betrays this idea that Foreman wanted was up to some mischief in this movie. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's definitely, there are the signs, I think, that the final movie we got was not the intended, was not the approach that they had, at least at a screenplay level. Because if this movie is more like Amadeus and tries to have a satirical, whether or not it's a funny satirical or like a harsher point of view like why would you cast randy quade in this

movie as a he's french right or is he spanish he's the french king of spain right yeah back when european royalty was the big old fucking mess um yes yes yes yes yes yeah i think part of it is that foreman is in very many ways a 1970s director and a director who sort of has his feet planted firmly in that sort of era of Hollywood slash international filmmaking. And I think for those people, Randy Quaid is still to some degree the guy who was sort of the

breakout star of The Last Detail, the Hal Ashby movie, where he and Jack Nicholson star together. And it was, I mean, there was a moment. Did he get nominated for the Oscar? He did get nominated for the Oscar for that for Best Supporting Actors. So like, there was a moment where like Randy Quaid was not

the Randy Quaid of Shittersful National Lampoon's Christmas vacation And uh Or the Randy Quaid of now Or the Randy, well that's, I think that's, I'm willing to put that fully aside And just sort of like talking about like getting into the Mishigas of Randy Quaid as a lunatic, truther, psychopath is almost too depressing to talk about.

But like, even just like his screen persona of cousin Eddie and the vacation movies and um the the pilot in uh independence day or whatever so like people of my and your generation have a very different i think conception of randy quade whereas like i think milish foreman probably still looks at him from that sort of 1970s thing and yet he absolutely is casting him for lunacy in this movie yeah it's intentional casting he's in paper moon he's in paper moon There's a lot of 70s movies that Randy Quaid is in, that I'm sort of curious now to go. And look, he's in Bound for Glory. He's in Midnight Express.

Like, truly... Yeah, I mean, like, he worked with a ton of major filmmakers. Yeah. You, this, talk about early quarantine movies, you very eagerly had me watch What's Up Doc, which was a great success. Incredible. Peter Bogdanovich's What's Up Doc with Barbara Streisand, who, who's so good in that movie. So, like, maddenly good.

Peter McDonovitch's, Polly Platz. What's up, Donnell. There you go. Yes. Thank you, Ms. Longworth. That's me. Rindy Quaid. Yes.

Is there anything to say about Stellan Scarsguard in this movie? Unfortunately not. I would love to have a conversation about Selen Scarsgaard sometime because he is a fascinating actor. Talked about somebody who, like, never stops working, has worked with amazing, uh, like filmmakers across the board and like we never talk about that with him probably because he's like so good at just like showing up and being the type of actor who can like feel like he works with any different type of movie what was the first thing you remember seeing stall in scars garden uh probably i mean it probably actually is goodwill hunting but uh i saw breaking the waves at far too young of an age He stopped breaking the waves after that, yeah. Yeah, I think he, that's probably the first time he made a real impression on me, which is a shame because he's great in Goodwill Hunting.

See, Goodwill Hunting definitely made an impression on me, and forever after that, it was everything that I would see him in was sort of like, oh, it's the guy from Goodwill Hunting and to like... It's the Goodwill Hunting villain. Yes. And then he sort of becomes, he makes a bunch of other Vantreras, right? Because he's in Doggville. God, he's so upsetting in Dogville.

he's so I mean everybody I mean everybody in Dogville is upsetting but he's like especially upsetting yeah he does have a very interesting career and he works a fucking ton you're totally right and he's in the MCU

he's absolutely in the MCU he's like running around bare ass naked in the MCU at one point there's a whole fucking thing he's in the later Pirates of the Caribbean movies it's some interesting of course we We can't forget the iconic drunken sailor turn in Mamma Mia. What the hell is he doing in Mamma Mia?

His whole vibe in that movie. I love that he's in Mamma Mia. I love that he shows up in those movies. If we think of him as anything, he's like a serious actor. And yet he shows up in those movies and has probably as good of a time. I was going to say, he shows up in that movie and throws his full ass into making that role. entertaining. Like, he just has no inhibitions.

I thought that he had more fun on the Mamma Mia set than Merrill did. Yeah, that's probably true. Nothing against Merrill, but, yeah. Nothing against Merrill, but, like, I'm sure that, like, you know, he had more fun. Yeah. Yeah. Stall and Scar Skard's a real trip, for sure. And has worked with just, like, just fantastic directors is the other thing.

He just, you know, von Trier and Fincher and, you know, I don't know. Some great ones. Rubinsky, even though it's with the later Pirates movies. And Milo Schwarman, who... Yeah. Yeah, I wish there was more to say about him in this role. He doesn't... I just don't find it very interesting.

I just don't find it the character or what he brings to the character. Yeah, I really shouldn't understand anything to do with Goya, the artist, in this movie whatsoever. I mean, it is kind of like an aughts thing I thought of, that is. It's like painter movies. So, yeah, what are the other painter movies of this era? I mean, girl with a pearl earring. That's the one I was later, but Mr. Turner. Right.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. The great painter movies of the 21st century. Yeah. One thing I did mention to you earlier in this week that I wanted to talk about because Goya's Ghost was one of these movies that was on the Oscar horizon for at least two years and was sort of this like mirage. as it turned out in the future of just like,

it's a Milosh Foreman movie with Javier Bardem and Natalie Portman. How can it miss? And I'm fascinated by these movies that kind of are on the horizon for an extended period of time. And it takes us so long to give up the no pun intended ghost on these movies. And of course the very... We spend time walking with that ghost. The very first one that I mentioned is the one that is still on the horizon and may well never be made. And maybe it's for the best that it'll never be made, that it only exists as a as a fantasy.

But the ever-enduring flora plum that Jody Foster still seems to want to make at some point. Bringing it back, baby. I want. The early episodes where we talked about nothing but flora plum for like hours at a time. Floripum, though, never got into, did it get into production or did they like film for a week? I forget. I don't think it ever did. I think it was just casting.

I think it was cast with what. Russell Crow and Claire Danes, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's what, it's a, it's a, the only thing I know about a movie is that it's the circus movie, that it was Russell Crow and Claire Danes and they're in the circus. And that's all we know. That's probably all we will ever know about Flora Plum. But God damn it, one of these days.

But I jot it down a couple examples of like other movies because like there's, there are the movies that are sort of these long rumored things, you know, Terry Gilliam had been trying to make the Don Quixote movie for years. There's a whole documentary made about it. It feels like there was a plan to make a Confederacy of Dunces for like ever and ever. Like all these sort of like... Lily Tomlin and Will Ferrell, I believe, were attached to that at one point. All of the different like Steven Spielberg in development movies that like last forever.

But the ones I'm mostly thinking of are the ones that are like concrete projects that do eventually get made but like are just in the works. for so long, and we're maybe, like, we're casting Oscar futures on them when they're just still in development, but I'm thinking about the All the Kings Men remake that is eventually released in, I want to say, 2006, but had been on the docket for, like, at least two years before that. Do you remember the John Turturro musical Romance and Cigarettes? Absolutely, I remember that movie. I never saw it. Did you ever see it? I never saw it either. No, with Kate Winslet's in that and James Gandalfini and some other people. And wait, now I want to look up the entire cast of that because I am intrigued.

Just the idea of just like a, was it also in black and white or is that coffee and cigarettes I'm thinking of? That's coffee and cigarettes. Okay, I'm conflating the two. The fact that those two were also, right, Susan Sarandon's in this movie. Romance and Cigarettes eventually released. Did that play festivals? I think it may have. Hold on.

It played Toronto. I'm very sure I played Toronto. Toronto and Venice in 2005, and then it doesn't get released in the United States until 2007. So Susan Sarandon. I love you. Philip Morris applies for this. It played like Sundance and wasn't released for another two years almost after that. The Nikki Caro movie that was eventually released under the title A Heavenly Vintage, but for forever, was known as the Vintner's Luck, which starred Vera Farminga.

and played Tiff in 2009 and didn't get released until a DVD release in the United States in 2012. Okay, can I just read you, though, for a second, The Cast List for Romance and Cigarettes? Now I kind of do want to watch it, even though everybody who saw it did not like it. So the big stars are Kate Winslet, Susan Sarandon, James Gandalfini, Bobby Connovali, Steve Buscemi, Mary Louise Parker. But then it gets into Mandy Moore, Christopher Walken, Elaine Stritch, Eddie Isard Amy Sederis Tanya Pinkins

Like This shit is legit I mean how terrible can this movie be I kind of want to watch it today I'm sure it's fascinating I want to find it I'm sure it's available somewhere The poster is

I always find it funny Who's just this like Woman with her like Very pulpy boobs hanging out Essentially with you know A cigarette in her hand And a you know

Bright red pump just like harlotry personified. Yeah, now I want to see it, for sure. Jane Got a Gun, speaking of Natalie Portman, is one of these movies, which obviously had a fraught production history, for sure. Marguerette, obviously, the long, long, long, delayed. The David O' Russell movie that was originally called Nailed.

Now it's like accidental love. Right, which I also never saw. but these movies are like they're fascinating to me in terms of like they only exist in our heads or at least they like most prominently exist in our heads these and why say us i mean people who follow the oscar race far too closely um and their their images change in our heads over time from this impending blockbuster and when i say blockbuster i don't necessarily mean financial but in terms of you know awards success Yeah, awards blockbuster. To these punchlines when they eventually are, you know, released. It's foundational to what we are as a podcast. Well, they're almost like these little like shibboleth words, right? Where it's just like, I'll be like the vintner's luck and only people who understand what I'm talking about

can like gain access to our podcast or something. Do you know what I mean? People that know what you're talking about know that you just made a joke. Right, exactly, exactly. Yeah. It's also a little bit, like, trickier to talk about now because it feels like the studio apparatus and even down to, like, the independent distributor, like, apparatus. Like, everything is so completely planned out because, like, so much of it is, like, tent poles that, like, you don't see these movies that just, like, get shuffled around a lot. Like, some of this were even talking about, like, like, the other Bling Girl that gets, like, pushed back by, like, like,

like six months where you think it's an awards movie and then it gets pushed out of the season and you know what that means. Like that's not a thing anymore. We were texting about before this podcast record started because we were texting with Katie Rich our friend and former podcast

got Katie Rich about our things that we were watching at TIF this time, this day in history sort of years ago. We're all hardcore missing being in Toronto guys. It's really, it's sad. It's tough. Me most especially. And this time in 2015, I was watching what was then titled about Ray and was eventually released as a movie called Three Generations later.

Yeah, but it's, it's, that's, you know, it just sort of, it plays, these are movies that will, like, will play a festival and everyone's like, no. And the studio still wants to, like, try and make a go of it. So they will often change a title, re-edit. Obviously, we did one of our very earliest episodes on Tulip Fever, which was a famous example of that where, you know, early test audiences of which I was one did not care for it. They were somehow never changed that title, which I think is hysterical because as I mentioned on that episode, when we got the questionnaire after seeing the movie, there were two separate questions about whether we liked the title, which, and it's still such an odd title. But the title is the title of the book, though. Yeah, but I think that, I mean, that doesn't necessarily set in stone. I think they were just very, very worried about having a title with a tulip in it that, you know, would make so many people just be like,

I'm not watching a movie about tulips. Anyway, I would love to watch a movie about tulips that was better. I mean, whatever, Tulip Fever is another one of those punchline movie titles, but, like, that's another movie where, like, There's just enough weird shit going on in that movie that I'm just like, I would have liked to have seen the fully insane version of tulip fever, where it's all Kara Delavine making tulip deals on the stock exchange floor

that they have for the tulip market. I'll never forgive that movie for making me sympathize with Christoph Fall. I just won't do it. Do we want to get into the yoga awards? We always want to get into the yoga awards. We love the yoga awards, frequently show up in this podcast.

The Spanish Razzis, they are not exactly the backwards spelling of Goya, but you get it. You get it. Yeah, the Spanish Oscars are the Goya Awards. Yes, the Goya is, yes. Of which this movie was nominated for three. Yeah, that's kind of funny. What were the three Goya nominations?

Okay, hold on, I'm pulling this back up. I know that one of them is costumes, costume design. Makeup and hairstyling. Okay, that's fully freaking insane. Yeah, and best special effects. So I guess there's visual effects or whatever. I guess, but like, yeah, okay. So three Goya nominations, but it gets a special mention at the...

Oh, no, wait, that's something called Borgia, not Goya. Hold on a second. No, let me look up. Goya's ghosts. Worst Spanish actor goes to Javier Bardem in Goya's Ghosts, which scene... At the yoga. which seems harsh to me

I think that's pretty harsh I don't I mean like again I think he's just miscast but like it's probably more of a thing that it's the movie that they're really shitting on and they have Javier Bardem as a Spanish actor in the movie

so they're finding a way to shit on the movie he's won quote unquote won two yoga awards in his entire career the other for worst hair style in Skyfall, which, again, seems mean. Skyfall's a good movie. Talking about more jaw acting.

Yeah, that's very, tooth trauma, the movie, is his role in Skyfall. Gay tooth trauma. Yes, exactly. Yeah. The yogas this year, though, that

Javier Bardem is a winner of, are fully unwell when you get into their foreign categories. Yes. Yeah, they honor the worst in Spanish filmmaking, but then they absolutely just take several shots at American films, because why not? We deserve it. I mean, sometimes it just feels like, and their worst for an actress winner for this is the same, they're just like the Razzies and that they love to just marinate in a vat of sexism and misogyny. Yes. Like, notedly, Jennifer Lawrence was a winner in this category for mother. Of course she was.

But their worst foreign actress winner is Sharon Stone for Basic Instinct 2, which was, at the time of its release, the critical reception was very much, how dare this 50-year-old woman be naked on screen? Did you ever see Basic Instinct 2? I never did. I didn't. I would absolutely watch the hell out of it right now and probably have a good goddamn time with it. But, like, the critical reception of that movie was so repulsive to me. Yeah. In that, like, it was just, like, naked sexism everywhere, and no one cared about how, like, absolutely repulsive they were being towards Sharon Stone. For her audacity in making that movie.

This was Sharon Stone's second yoga win, the first being for Sliver in 1993. She has won two worst actress Razzie Awards, would you care to guess what they are? what they are for. Probably basic instinct two as well. Yes. And it's got to be something like the specialist, right? It's got to be one of those. Absolutely the specialist. So 1995. Oh, it is the specialist? Or sorry, 1994, she wins worst actress for two movies, the specialist and intersection. Sure. Yeah. She also wins for worst screen couple for the specialist with Sylvester Stallone. I mean, they loved to award Sylvester. She's also been nominated a bunch of times. They like, obviously, Sharon Stone is, like, the lowest of low-hanging fruit for things like the Razzies. So, we can't be surprised. When you want to just, like, hate women.

The other yoga... What they do, that's their MO. The other yoga awards this year, though, are pretty deserved. Yeah, like, you can't really yell at these. Hank's isn't... More or less, like, we can have some of it. Yeah. But worst foreign actor is Tom Hanks for Da Vinci Code.

Which is not a good movie, but, like, it's not a good movie, but, like, it's not like Hank's is abominable in it or anything. I was just having this conversation with a friend and former guest, Rob Shear, that that is like his worst performance and also his least sexy performance. Oh, the hair is awful. We hate that hair. We hate that hair. What's that?

We're all in agreement that Tom Hanks is sexy, right? We would do that. Yeah. More, yes, more often than not, yes. But definitely not in the Da Vinci Code. No, no, we all hate that hair. Yeah. Worst Foreign Director,

M. Night Shyamalan, Lady in the Water. I feel like I'm a lady in the water apologist. I hate that movie. I like that movie. If you cut out everything with Bob Balaband, it's a completely different movie. Okay, but like the Balaband stuff is terrible. Okay, but that stuff is like central to his thesis for the movie.

Which is that like the poor, critically maligned artist is, is going to be the one that saves the world. See, I think you cut those scenes out of the movie and, And, like, it's, it doesn't affect anything in the story. And, like, yes, I realize it is unintentionally funny when people are running around saying things like Nerf every two seconds. It's true. But I also feel the same way about Inception, and it doesn't make me like Inception,

any less. See, but Inception's a good movie and Lady in the Water is a bad movie. See, Lady in the Water, whatever. We'll move on. I'm going to put on my Milage Foreman hat and say, Amn Night Shyamalan is directing a bad movie, and Christopher Nolan was directing a good movie. Their worst foreign film winner is Oliver Stone's World Trade Center. Fair.

Which is like, exploitive, maudlinous... The worst thing about World Trade Center is that it's not even a remarkably bad movie. It's just... No, it's not. It's very, very average. We could do an episode on it eventually, but it would not be fun. No, we would not have a fun, fun all time talking about that. imagine just like cracking jokes like we're prone to do

while we're like hey guys 9-11 the movie yeah no thank you no thank you especially when it's a movie that's not fully embarrassing right exactly like I said it's just like it's I think the the craziest thing about World Trade Center is that it's an Oliver Stone movie because right because it doesn't feel anything there's no point of view to it there's nothing there's nothing it has nothing to say Yeah, it's very middle of the road, very, not even sentimental, but it's like, it is first and foremost an emotional movie. Well, it also comes after, it's a year after Michael Moore does Fahrenheit 9-11, which takes the point of view that you would have maybe expected somebody like Oliver Stone to take, something incendiary, something rude, something conspiratorial, something angry.

And World Trade Center is none of those. It's like it's arm's length polite. It's sort of non-specifically respectful. It's so strange. And because it's an Oliver Stone movie, who like, we know what Oliver Stone was like in the 80s and the 90s and the type of movies he was making, it feels like it's patting itself on the back for not being that. Exactly. Right.

It feels like it's patting itself on the back for being this. reserved, maybe not reserved comparatively, like straightforward melodrama. There was that trend after 9-11, and now I can't think of anybody specifically, so this is going to be sort of a toothless thing, but after 9-11, there were a lot of artists whose reputations were somewhat countercultural or avant-garde or rude or whatever, who made a big show of being sort of pro-America pro-trups after 9-11 to just be like, even I noted iconoclast such and such am, you know, am rooting for America at this moment. And it's just like in retrospect, like you can you sort of get it, you get it at the moment, right,

where we were going through a real national moment at that thing. and we were all processing our stuff in certain ways. But, like, I guess Aaron Sorkins, maybe my biggest example of it, is if you watch the West Wing, as I did, and you go back and watch it, as I still do, you can really pinpoint the moment in time in third season when the episodes start to get written after 9-11. Because, like, the first maybe, like, six or seven episodes of that season were written, and many of them produced before that happened. And then at some point, midway through season three, you really, really feel the shift, absolutely. And he, it's, it's, I don't know, the attitude of it is very sort of like American defensive. We have to, you know, find a way to defend ourselves and we're under attack and yet, yeah, yeah, and I think ultimately, Sorkin, I mean, Sorkin's got his problems all over the board. But, like, Sorkin ultimately, in his later project, sort of, like, has backed away from that

and has sort of, like, recalibrated himself. And yet, I think that was indicative of a lot of artists at the time, where it was just, like, they really kind of rallied around America in ways that were understandable at the time. But in retrospect, probably, you know, a critical eye would have been more helpful at the time. Mm-hmm. Anyway. Anyway. Sorry, that kind of brought us down

in this silly, silly discussion we're having about Natalie Portman's goofy fake teeth. We could talk more about the fake goofy teeth before we move on to the IMDB game. What are your last notes about Goya's Ghosts? I mean, so much of it really is the teeth. I was so

shook and thrown by that moment. There's also a line that I wrote down. My notes aren't many. because I think at one point, once I realized what was going on, it was just like, I'm not making notes anymore. There's a line when Lorenzo was talking to the Inquisition about the paintings that they find so objectionable and scary

where someone just goes, those are the whores smiling down on you from, smiling down on your mother from the ceiling. And I was like, oh, my, like, I want to stitch that on a, you know, frame that in a crochet or something. Tattoo that on my neck. Yeah, yeah, exactly. I don't know. What were your, what are your final notes on Goya's ghosts?

I really wish Inez's daughter was named Betty, so that I could be saying. You heard the rumors from Innes. You can't believe a word she says most times, but this time it was true. Um, I don't know, man. I, I, I, I, sometimes we talk about these, like, lost-a-time artifacts of Oscar Manusia, like Goya ghosts and it doesn't make sense or like you can find things to like defend about it and this one was truly uh uh truth in history of why this movie got lost and why it fell apart though like there is a certain sense of like there are movies probably worse than this that get through um or movies less interesting than this that get through with oscar oh yeah wonder if there if a different distributor had picked this up or if like this was produced in-house at like focus or something

if this movie would have been able to register more or at least have like made more money than a million dollars like it did this is no worse a movie than the last station it's just more embarrassing at times do you know does that make sense right nothing in the last station the the helen mirren christopher plumber movie about tolstoy nothing in that movie is as fucking insane as Natalie's teeth in the second half of his movie. But there's also nothing in the last station that is in any way memorable. So ultimately, Goya's Ghosts kind of wins in that little head dead. Yes. Yes. I don't know. Anyway. Goya's ghosts. Milos Schormann, may he rest. Indeed. His final feature. All right. IMDB game. Joseph,

explain the IMDB game to our lovely list. I shall. Every week we end our episodes with the IMDB game where we challenge each other with an actor or actress to try and guess the top four titles that IMDB says they're most known for. If any of those titles are television or voiceover work, we mention that up front. After two wrong guesses, we get the remaining titles release years as a clue. If that's not enough, it just becomes a free for all of hints and a free for all of teeth. Free for all of teeth. Maybe I should have, for what I've chosen for you, picked something that was like teeth related. Oh, that would be an interesting avenue to travel down.

Jess Weicksler, star of the movie Teeth. It is that actress, right? Yes, it is. Also a movie I need to catch up to. I've never seen. Oh, teeth is a time. It's a real moment. It's got its moments, that's for sure.

All right. Joseph, would you like to give her guess first? Why don't I guess first? All right. So the direction I did go for you was not teeth-related. It was movies about painters-related. I chose famously an Oscar shutout of a painter movie

the noted Timothy Spall of Mr. Turner. Oh, golly. Timothy Spall, who's been in eight billion things. I will give you a pre-hint that none of these are a Harry Potter movie. Oh, that is an interesting pre-hint. Okay. And we used to pre-hint, not a word, but we used to have the rule of no Harry Potter people.

Although I... In recent years, both the Harry Potter movies and the Avengers movies are not quite as dominant in those actors' filmography or in those... They're really not.

And the people that, like, I'm not going to give you Chris Hemsworth ever, you know. Sure, fair. Timothy Spall, well, I would guess that Mr. Turner is one of them. Mr. Turner is one of them.

Okay. The thing about Timothy Spall is he was in, movies before I knew that like Timothy Spall was a thing um is one of them secrets and lies one of them is secrets and lies

that's uh that's the other big Michael Lee movie that he is sort of notable for he's in other ones of course but my guess is that it's those two at least one of these is going to be an American

movie I I'm thinking What are his American movies? Maybe he hasn't done a lot of American movies. Maybe that's the thing. You gotta get through it before I start helping you out. I know, I'm just working it out. Working it out in my head.

You have two right guesses. You have no wrong guesses. Well, he plays Churchill in the King's speech, so I'm going to guess the King's speech. The King speech is not there. He is terrible in it. He really is. He is on a 12 out of 10 in that movie.

That is for sure. And he needs to bring it down to maybe a six. And, all right. So, Brit movies with Timothy Spall. Is he in Pirate Radio, or am I making that up? Well, Pirate Radio is not one of them. Is that a guess? Yeah, it was a guess.

I know now that I know what's wrong, I can't take it back. I'm looking and I don't see pirate radio. Okay. I'm probably thinking of something else or someone else. Anyway. All right. One more before I can get a hint. I'm missing two of them, right?

Yes. Is Sweeney Todd one of them? Sweeney Todd is one of them. Okay, Swini Todd's one of those movies that, like, is on a lot of people's IMDBs, I feel like. I feel like if, like, has the hot topic, like, cultural subset, is it still a thing? Maybe. Because if it is, I think that's why Sweeney Todd shows up. You think the hot topic kids are all slamming IMDB looking for Timpe as well?

Yeah, if there are still Hot Topic kids, I think Sweeney Todd, like, they love that movie. Okay, one movie we talked about last week that he's definitely in, because I remember when I looked it up, He's either Rosencrantz or Gildenstern in the 1996 Hamlet, the Kenneth Branagh, Endless Hamlet. Is that one of them? Endless Hamlet is not the answer. So you have two wrong guesses. Hold on.

Let me see if he's, he is. He is Rosencrantz. So if that is actually a movie he has done, I will count that as a wrong guess. Your year is 2001. I mean, it's still a wrong guess if I guess a movie he's never made. It's just like an especially wrong guess. I feel like it shouldn't count. if you guess something that they're not even in.

Well, that's an interesting POV. I disagree, but okay. We can talk about that off the mic. Okay, 2001, Oscar nominee. Oh, he's in Vanilla Sky. He is in Vanilla Sky. You got there sooner than I thought you would. I remember, yeah.

He's Tom Cruise's little work friend. He's like the good one. He's like the nice, the one in Tom Cruise's father's organization who likes him. Poor Timothy Spall rarely gets cast as the nice one. He's always some dirty man. I just watched Bertolucci's The Sheltering Sky, where Timothy Spall is absolutely coded as a gay pervert.

Oh, no. Oh, no. And I was like, hmm, I don't like what they're doing with this character. He's, uh, he's, uh, gay skis. Gay skis. Wasn't he also in, what did we talk about him recently? in. Is it the painted veil?

Is he in the painted veil? Am I wrong? No, that is That's Toby Jones. Yeah, that's Toby Jones. Maybe Toby Jones is the one in Pirate Radio I was thinking of that's not Timothy Spall.

Anyway. Quite possible. All right. For you, Chris, I went the Milosh Forman route, as I often do, the directors. He directed, as we have mentioned a couple times in this podcast,

The People v. Larry Flint, and sort of was a sideways passenger on the awards trajectory that year of won Edward Norton, who was a supporting actor nominee for Primal Fear that year, the great junkie primal fear, but was also for some of those critics awards that he got, was kind of looped in with also his performance in The People versus Larry Flint. So how about you do, Edward Norton? Edward Norton, who is barely in The People v. Larry Flint, who, like, wasn't famous yet. Like, primal fear had more to do with that. And, like, apparently Edward Norton only agreed to do the people versus Larry Flint because of Milo Schoormann. And it's like, oh, my God, you egomaniac, before you're even famous, you are like, oh, I guess I'll do this Milo Schoormann movie because it's Milo. Bush, Foreman. All right. Okay.

So, Edward Norton, three Oscar nominations. I'm going to say all of his Oscar nominations are there. So Primal Fear, American History X, and Birdman. Primal Fear, correct, American History X, correct. Birdman, incorrect. It's one strike. Wow, that's interesting. It is interesting.

I'm surprised by that. The Grand Budapest Hotel, because it shows up for everybody. It does. That is also incorrect. Strike 2. Wow. So you're going to get years. Your years are, and I think this is going to give you them pretty quickly. 2019. 2019, is it motherless Brooklyn?

What is wrong with people? I don't know, but it's insane. Ew. Motherless Brooklyn. Yep. God. We are going to do Motherless Brooklyn for this podcast at some point, and at some point down the line. Five years from now, and I'm going to be very mad that I have to watch it again.

I've still never seen it. It's terrible. 2000, so is that the score? No, that's the year of the score, I'm pretty sure, but that is not it. No, the score was 2001. Okay, so. He only made one movie. Is he credited as the, actor or the director, is it keeping the faith?

He's credited for his acting performance, but it is keeping the faith. He also did direct that movie. I kind of really like that movie. I've never seen it. Joseph Reed, you would love keeping the faith. I'm not a Jenna Elfman guy. The idea of a romantic comedy with those three actors is so strange to me. And I've liked Ben Stiller in things.

I've liked Ben Stiller in romantic comedies, reality by stuff. is one of my very favorite movies. And yet, first of all, Anne Bancroft is in this movie. She will negate anything that you are opposed to in this movie. Who else is? Now I'm looking at the cast for this movie. Eli Wallach.

Okay, I'm looking at the cast. Oh, my God. Milosch Forman is in it? Okay, this cast is fully unwell slash fantastic. Edward Norton, Ben Stiller, and Jenna Elfman are the Central Love Triangle. Anne Bancroft Wait, Ben Still playing a rabbi and Edward Norton as a priest. That's like the angle here.

Yes, yes, yes. Anne Bancroft, Eli Wallach, Ron Rifkin, A-plus, Mielish Foreman, Holland Taylor, A-plus, lesbian excellence. Lisa Edelstein from House and also various things, the West Wing Pilot. Rina Sofer, who most people don't know, she's a soap opera star. She was my beloved Lois on General Hospital. And if anybody out there is listening, you know that that's true. She's so good.

Ken Lung from Lost, among other things, Susie Esman from Kirby Your Enthusiasm. What a cast. I am going to watch this. All right, so what's on my list? After recording this podcast, I'm watching romance and cigarettes and keeping the faith, and that's going to be the most insane double feature you ever did hear about. Fantastic. Love it.

I think that's our episode. Excellent. If you want more of This Had Oscar Buzz, you can check out the Tumblr at this had oscarbuzz.com. You should also follow our Twitter account at Had underscore Oscar underscore Buzz, Joseph. What institution can the listeners find you and your work at? You can find me inquisiting things on Twitter at Joe Reed. Read is spelled R-E-I-D. I'm also on Letterboxed doing a pretty decent job of keeping up with, among other things,

revisiting old TIF movies that I watched. That is also found on Letterboxed as Joe Reed, Reed, spelled R-E-I-I-A-E-A-E-A. ID. Then I am also on Twitter at Chris V-File. That's F-E-I-L, also on letterboxed under the same name. We'd like to thank Kyle Cummings for his fantastic artwork, Dave Gonzalez, and Gavin Miebius for their technical guidance. Please remember to rate and review us on Apple Podcasts, Google Play, Stitcher, wherever else you get your podcasts. A five-star review in particular really helps us out with Apple Podcast visibility, so please paint a lovely portrait of us, but don't burn it in the town square. That's all for this week, but we hope you'll be back next week for more buzz. Bye-bye.

Take a bite of my bad girl. Take a bite to me, boy. So may you take the truth is sexy. Tell me something that'll save me. I need a minute. It's my all right. Tell me something that'll change me. I'm going to love you with my hands.

I'm going to tell me your teeth. Show me your teeth. Open your mouth, boy. Show me your teeth. So what you got. Show me. Tick-Tick-T-T-T-T-T-E-T-T. Got no salvation.