This Had Oscar Buzz - 117 – Melancholia

Episode Date: October 26, 2020

This episode, we’re bringing you one of our most requested films starring one of our most requested performers. In 2011, Kirsten Dunst triumphantly returned from a short break to work with a director notorious for lauded and tumultuous collaborations with actresses, Lars Von Trier. With Melancholia, the actress stars as a woman afflicted with severe … Continue reading "117 – Melancholia"

Uh-oh, wrong house. No, the right house. I didn't get that! We want to talk to Marilyn Hacks. I'm from Canada. I'm from Canada water. What star is that? The red one. I don't know.

What's going on, Justine? It's a planet that has been hiding behind us, and now it passes by us. I just have one thing to say. Enjoy it while it lasts. I myself hate marriages. Can we please? Is everyone in your family start grieving men? I smile and I smile and I smile.

The line to all of us. I'm not really happy. He's going a lot different. Yes, Michael, that could have been. Just forget it. Stop dreaming, Justin. What are we excited about? Tomorrow night.

That's right. I'm afraid of how stupid then. And it is not going to hate us. You promise? Hello and welcome to the This Had Oscar Buzz podcast, the only podcast that doesn't think Breckenmire is too short to be a bartender. Every week on This Had Oscar Buzz, we'll be talking about a different movie that once upon a time had Lofty Academy Award aspirations, but for some reason or another, it all went wrong. The Oscar hopes died, and we are here to perform the autopsy. I'm your host, Joe Reed.

I am here as always. With the rogue planet lurking behind the sun in my universe, Chris Fyle. Hello, Chris. I am the rogue planet, like, peeking around the corner, like, that shot from Mank of Amanda Seifred, like, peeking out of the inside of a car. Like, here I am from around the sun. I imagine that, like, if a melancholia-type event happened in the current landscape, that there would be, like, memes of the planet, just sort of, like, peeking around a corner

and just being, like, you-hoo, I'm here. just like guess who back in the house has melancholia no i'm pretty sure the timeline would just be a bunch of like retweets of some like article from a science magazine saying like yes queen well we'll talk about how uh articles from scientists were treated in this movie and how it made me absolutely think of current events in a way i was not looking forward to um indeed already already the prospect of watching melancholy in my current state of mind. I was just like, oh, God, this is going to be bad. And we'll get into it for sure. I'm sure we will. However, if I am a rogue planet coming to smash into our own, I am not melancholia.

I am melancholia. Because every time I watch this movie, I remembered that clip of Tony, or not Tony Gilroy, Dan Gilroy, mispronouncing melancholy and Jake Gyllenhaal correcting him. I don't know if I ever saw that, did I? oh my god i will send it to you um he's pronounced it melancholy yeah many sides drenay that haven't been shown on film i know i and i want the world to see them uh soulful spiritual she has a touch of melancholy once in a while it's melancholy oh it's melancholy

i'm so nice get that word wrong you're so good that is not the first time today you know it's like and jane jolm's like it's melancholy it's my greatest fear that i will be talking about something and then say something and pronounce it wrong and realize it's because I've never heard something pronounced out loud before. I've only ever seen it written. And then all of a sudden it's just like, wait, I'm trying to think of a specific example because it's happened to me before. And it's the worst. I absolutely can't stand it. You know how words are supposed to sound like the things that they are usually? And Melancholia sounds way more fun and festive than what the actual thing is.

Also, I watched what the Constitution means to me yesterday, and there was that whole—she, like, keeps coming back to her great-grandmother who died in a institution of melancholia, so I was just like, ah, it's all— talking about, like, planets aligning in terms of my cultural consumption yesterday. If only Heidi Shrek showed up in this movie. Oh, my God, I would fear for Heidi Shrek. I would say, like, get out of there. Get out of there, Heidi Shrek. get out as fast as possible. That's sort of how I was reacting to the horses. Anytime the horses showed up. Normally, I'm always just like any kind of animal in a Lars von Trier movie,

I'm always just like get away as fast as you can. Don't end up like that donkey and mandrelay or whatever. What was it was... That John C. Riley quit a movie because they slaughtered a animal. And then it didn't even make it into the final movie. If the culture got their hands on Mandurley, which is absolutely, a movie that does not have any cultural footprint

whatsoever. No, it's true. They would eviscerate it into the ground. It's wild because Dogville is by a large margin.

Large Marge. Be sure and tell them large Marge sent you. Oh my God. A Large Montreier a large margin biopic would be the ultimate.

But anyway, God, talk about him mistreated. an actress like whoever he got to play large margin would just be you know just psychological torture the entire time anyway dogville by a large margin is my favorite Lars von truer movie it's the one I really love and the fact that there is a direct sequel to it that I definitely saw but remember none nothing about and terrible never like it's like the difference between one and the other is

absolutely crazy and it's not just Nicole Kidman it's just like it feels like well he planned a trilogy of these very our towny type of movies and Nicole dropped out after the first one

got replaced by Bryce Dallas Howard and he never made the third one and I don't am I remembering this incorrectly didn't make another movie until antichrist, which is just like talk about a little, like, emerging on the scene with a, you-hoo!

He's made, since breaking the waves, he's made, or at least since I'm trying to think of like what the order of his dogma films were, but he's made a lot fewer films than I think he has. Like, I always feel like, Von Trier is just like, oh, it's always

making a new movie. And it's like, it's really not true. He's gone through these long stretches without making films. And there's a number of movies that, like, didn't really get released here, Stateside. Yeah. And he made several movies, including Europa, which I don't think was a foreign language nominee, but was submitted maybe. I think that's right. I think that's right.

Because that was another Cannes movie. Von Trier also ends up on a list with Sufian Stevens in terms of people who have planned lengthy, artistic series themed on America that didn't finish them. Right. So there's that. This film Melancholia is also

part of a trilogy that he did complete, although actually it's also, again, anytime Waters van Trier plans a trilogy, you know it's not going to turn out to be a trilogy, because this one ended up being four films because it was his Depression trilogy, which was Antichrist, Melancholia, and then Nymphomaniac, which ended up being two films.

Which I I've never seen. They are fine. Yeah, I used to, like, when I was, like, younger and, like, discovering, like, cinema, movies, whatever. Lars von Trier was someone who I was kind of obsessed with because, like, when I was, like, a budding cinephile was when Dancer in the Dark came out. Sure. And I, like, immediately saw breaking the waves after that. So I was, like, obsessed with this guy.

And, uh, it has not aged well. Though, like, I mean, the movies that are great of his, I think, are still great. But, like, of course, he is someone who has a lot of, the stories about him were already out there. Like, the stuff between him and Bjork. Yeah. With the exception of some details, like, we knew that he treated her poorly. Is Bjork the one? treated Nicole Kidman poorly.

Is Bjork the one who, like, ran away into the forest rather than film a scene or something like that? I feel like there was a story. She, I think there was a story that she, like, left the set at one point. Yeah. Dogville, Nicole Kidman is the one that, like, he and Nicole went into the forest to, like, yell at each other and get it all out. Yeah.

Right. It was Bjork who started, like, chewing on her costumes because she was so out of sorts. Yeah. Well, she's like, she included. that rumor in there. She's like, because they, someone had said that she ate a t-shirt.

She was so mad or like wanted to cause a scene on the movie. And she mentioned that when she made her statement a few years ago against Lars von Trier. She's like, I never ate a shirt. I don't know how someone can do that. Well, I think the rumor was that she ate a shirt. But I also heard that it was more that she was just like gnawing on her costume. out of, you know, whatever, anxiety.

That seems reasonable. Where, so do you feel like there was a point in Rantreer's career where the sort of, his personality began to make it too difficult to appreciate his movies, or was it just that the movies started getting bad? Um, because I hate Antichrist. Oh, I love Antichrist. Okay. I mean, like, Antichrist is its own beast, so to speak, of, like, that's just, it's just a lot. It's so, I mean, like, for listeners who aren't familiar with this movie, it has, like, graphic sex scenes of, like, actual sexual intercourse. It has genital mutilation.

It's very gory. Charlotte Gainsburg drills a hole in Willam Defoe's leg and then, like, puts a, like, weight through it so that he can't chase. It's a lot. I mean, the interesting thing, and I think this is, we'll get into all of it, I think simultaneously, like, the time that Lars von Trier was perhaps the most palatable is also when it was like, Okay, absolutely not. We're done with you. It's this movie. Yes. I mean, I think with the exception of Breaking the Waves, I think Breaking the Waves was his most, in terms of palatable. I think that's where the Oscars were like, ooh, fun new European thing. Like, let's give this one a whirl. And actually. I love that you called that movie fun. No, I don't think the movie was fun. But I think like in terms of, of Oscar voters, they were like

a new, a bright new talent from a, you know, place that is not here. Yeah, that definitely had the benefit of being like a new, like that veneer of newness, because that's even, I forgot this, but that's a Golden Globe Best Picture

nominee, which is crazy to me. Yes. But that was the famous sort of like 1996 indie wave where four out of the five best picture nominee, were indie films, and also that there was, like, Emily Watson was nominated for Best Actress, and Slingblade was nominated in Best Actor and One Screenplay, and in general, it was

part of this, was it a Miramax film? Was Breaking the Waves Miramax? No. It was October. October films. It was October films. That's what it was. Rest in peace, October films. Yeah. But it was part. of that, I mean, you know, no pun intended wave of indie movies that year, and Lars Vonreier was part of that. And then I think he made the idiots after that, which I think was sort of like

more, was sort of kept on the other side of the ocean, right? Where it's just like that's making, and then Dancer in the Dark happened. And then again, the Golden Globes nominate Bjork for Dancer in the Dark. And the Oscars nominate that for obviously Best Original song, where she wore her rocking swan dress. That was great. I'll hear... The finest gown ever worn to the Oscars. But I think that was where... And I think that's when you started to get these stories about him being, you know, difficult and torturous. And then people start looking at breaking the waves differently.

And then people start looking at the way he treats his female characters differently. And then Dogville very much plays into that in Mandurly. And, you know, on and on and on. And so by the time Melancholia hits... He has this, like, massive reputation for treating his actresses poorly and then writing, essentially, just, like, new ways to torture his female leads on screen, right? And up until the point of, like, Charlotte Gainsburg's character and Antichrist, like, mutilating herself with a pair of scissors, and it's awful to watch. And then so Melancholia hits, and it's the story of two sisters experience. the end of the world, like the violent smashing of the earth end of the world.

And weirdly enough, it's his kindest film to his lead act, like lead female characters ever, at least to this point. That's partly why I think it's the most, I say it's the most palatable, like the one that feels like, because it doesn't have the extremes of a Lars von Trier movie, or it does in ways that are not, like, body-breaking, that, like, this feels like it could have been the one that would have transcended on a larger scale for the academy. But... Yes. Then again, the movie also is what it is,

and he also had that disastrous Cannes press conference. Yes. Claimed himself to be a Nazi at the Cannes press conference for Cannes. isn't he a little scamp? Isn't he quite the jokester, our Lars von Trier? We'll definitely get into that. But it's interesting because it doesn't have, you're right, it doesn't have the like the normal von Trier markers in terms of content or sort of like what is happening on screen or what is being done to his characters. But like this is an emotionally to me, this is an emotionally torturous movie. Like, I hate this movie. I hated watching it. Oh, I didn't know you hated this movie.

The first time, I hated watching it the second time. I think it's an undeniably well-made movie. And I like, you know, I can recognize it in all sort of corners. But it, to me, is, and I thought that's at the time, and it has only become more sharpened now in light of current events. And I know that, like, it's unfair to sort of tie someone's movie made 10 years ago almost to current events. But it is still this attitude to me of like your depression is fully justified. Your anxieties are fully justified. Everything really is that terrible. The scientists can't save you. Earth is doomed. It's beyond saving. Nobody will miss it. When it's gone,

you know, no one will mourn it. I was right to be depressed about all of this. And I embrace sort the end of the world's in all its trappings kind of a thing and it feels it feels he feels very like edge lord in this more than normal very much just sort of like lull nothing matters kind of a thing that's interesting see i guess i don't see it quite that way because i feel like the whole end of the world type of thing is allegorical to what it feels like to actually experienced depression and it's like the movie to me lies in the difference that the way these two sisters process the end of the world and like what it means to be a well-balanced person and what it means to be a depressed person because a depressed person you're going to expect that the

worst is going to happen anyway so when the worst is happening like you can just process that more because that's what your expectation of the world is whereas like Charlotte Gainsburg is the one who's actually having a hard time with this. And I think what the movie is expressing is the difference between those two experiences with the world and isn't, I guess I don't really see anything that says the world is that bad because it's, I mean, to be clear, allegorical is probably the wrong word, but that's, no, I think you're right. And to be clear, I recognize that.

Like, I don't think this film is literally about the planet. I do feel like, you know, the end of the world as a metaphor for how it feels to be depressed. Like, yes. My whole thing is, and maybe this is me coming from somebody who's sort of depressive, anxious balance, tilts far more towards the anxious. But it feels to me like somebody who's being like I, because he's talked about how, you know, Kirsten Dunst character in this movie, and her depression is a reflection of his own, and that's sort of how he brought that character into the world.

It feels like he's saying, you know, this worldview that I have is not only like the correct one, it's you for not having it look like a fool. You are the one who is foolish, you are the one who will ultimately die crying, and I will be steeled, you know, Aunt Stealbreaker, I will be steeled against the wickedness of this world and anything that can happen because I have sort of barricaded myself within this, you know, depression. And you, my silly, anxious sister, is going to, you know, spend. her final days looking terrified and like an idiot and I don't know well I guess I what's keeping me from feeling that or getting that interpretation from the movie is just the like agony that justine goes through beforehand because it doesn't feel like what do I how do I want to say that It doesn't feel like her, like, worldview is right to me because he shows, like, how much pain she goes through.

But she's ultimately correct about everything. That is not a good, worthy pain, right? Sure, but she's right. In the end, she's right about everything. She can see the future. Like, she guessed the beans in the jar. She knows that the planet is coming back. And ultimately, it's, you know, it's because she views the world as this way. And you can say it's sort of like accidental, but I don't think that's what the movie, I think within the allegory of the movie, I think it's saying that like, you know, she was right to feel this way this whole time.

She was justified to feel this way this whole time. The world really is ending. And to what you're saying, though, there is a certain point. Like, I haven't seen the house that Jack built his newest movie. Unfortunately, I have. It's like a serial killer. And it does feel like with Von Treer experiencing his movies anymore feels like we're complicit in his own destruction by watching. Yes.

So, I mean, maybe you're onto something there. I mean, I won't deny that like it is a beautifully made film and it is like incredibly haunting. And it like, it wouldn't, it probably wouldn't elicit this sort of reaction in me if I didn't, if it didn't. if it didn't, wasn't, you know, effective in what it's doing. But, man, I hate it. I hate it so much. Yeah, I can understand that, like, if you interpret it as, like, be depressed. Like, you are, like, right to not, you know, try to work on your mental health.

I can understand hating the movie. We should do the plot description. Oh, yes, we should definitely do the plot description. This is... Hi. by the way, we're talking about a movie where the world ends in case the last five minutes made no sense to you. Well, this was sort of my, I sort of dragged my feet on the prospect of doing this film. We've been talking about doing it for a while.

And part of it was just sort of just like, I don't know if I want to experience this given, you know, gestures at everything happening in the world right now. It is one of the movies that we get asked for a lot. It is. And with, you know, with good reason. and people love the Kirsten Dunst performance. I think this film really galvanized for as much as, like, there was already a justice for Kirsten Dunst movement sort of in the ether. This movie really galvanized that, I think, for a lot of people.

This is the movie, I think most people, either this or Marie Antoinette, but I think this is probably the one most people feel like. If you feel like Kristen Dunst should have an Oscar, this is the one you feel like she should have an Oscar for. Right. But we'll get into that for sure. We're talking about Melancholia, the 2011 film Melancholia, directed and written by Lars von Trier, starring Kirsten Dunst, Charlotte Gainsburg, Kiefer Sutherland, Alexander Scarsguard, Charlotte Rampling, John Hurt, Stellen Scarsguard, and Brady Corbe, the imp of weirdo-European cinema, who will really show up for one scene and just sort of do a thing. I remember when I saw a force majeure and he just shows up.

I tweeted this semi-recently about like what is the, what's the, or maybe this was on my letterboxed, where it's just like, what's the all-time top five of Brady Corbe sort of randomly showing up in a European Autours movie? Because he also does it in Clouds of Sils Maria. And definitely in this, he's in, he's in Voxlux. Or no, he directs Vaux-Lux. But does he show up in that as well? I guess that doesn't count. because that's his own movie anyway.

But he, like, he'll do this. This is sort of his kind of thing. He always seems to me like he's just on vacation somewhere. He's sort of just, like, backpacking through whatever, and he hears that, like, there's a Vontrear movie happening or something, and he just sort of wanders to him. I feel like he's probably just beetle-juiced into existence in every European production.

Probably true. This premiered May 18th, 2011 at the Cannes Film Festival. There's definitely a lot to talk about, about its reception at Cann. It opened in the United States on November 11th, 2011, after, I believe, going to VOD first? I think this is like early VOD when it was a thing and they were testing it out because this wasn't ineligible for Oscar in the way that like now it probably would have been, well, not this year. But like, I remember there was a time. where, um, on my cable VOD, the way that cable VOD used to run, you would just sort of go to

this, you know, section for VOD movies. And I remember that IFC had a whole section on your movie VOD and IFC would do while their stuff was in theaters. It would also be available on VOD. So I remember I watched, I was able to watch. Do they still do that? Do they still do that? Good for them. For, for the most part, like, you can tell the movies that they're really like putting not to like, sound shitty for them, but, like, you can tell the ones that they really are, like, pushing because they won't do VOD, at least not immediately. Like, they might do it, like, two months later, like they're doing with the nest, like, wildlife, which was theirs, they didn't put on VOD right away.

I feel like there was a time where it was everything, but maybe I'm wrong. I just remember being like, oh, if something's playing at IFC Center, I'll be able to watch it also on VOD at home, which, you know, double-edged sword there. Anyway, Chris, would you like to take 60 seconds out of your day to describe the plot of Mr. Melancholia? Not a lot of plot, so sure. All right, one second. Let me get my timer ready. All right, one minute is on the clock.

Are you ready? Yes. And start. All right, Kiki Dunst stars as Justine. She is getting married in this, like, giant estate that she lives in somewhere in Europe. And she's getting married to Alexander Scarsguard. We find out through the night of her wedding that, like, everybody has been kind of pushing her to, like, get Mary, do this wedding that she doesn't really want to do. It's also, like, a business proposition as well.

She kind of stumbles through the night progressively is, like, getting more and more depressed, despite how she's, like, presenting herself. Her mother, played by Charlotte Rambling, is an asshole and, like, doesn't want to be there and, like, hates everything and, like, makes her feel bad. Her father played by John Hurt sucks. Anyway, after the wedding, like, doesn't go off. She ends up in a huge state of depression, while a new planet named Melancholy is going to crash into the Earth and her sister Claire has to take care of her. And then basically Justine and Claire sit in a field and planet smash. Yeah. Time's up.

Well done. Perfectly on time. There's not a lot of plot to this. I have to be honest. Like, you could get into the Kiefer Sutherland husband stuff. Like, every time that Kiefer Sutherland. Sutherland shows up. I'm like, go away. We don't need to. Well, the film also feels that way.

Yeah. And he like offs himself before the planet can smash. When you were still on the wedding 40 seconds into that description, I got very nervous for you. I was I was worried you weren't going to make it. But I forgot that the back half of the movie is literally just like them sitting around waiting for the Earth to end. It really kind of is. There's like some stuff with the horses. But like it's mostly just biting time. it is until the end of the world which like tonally makes like there there's a reason for it to feel so long and drawn out before this happens but yes my one qualm with the movie is like it just feels so long like there's people that love this movie and like watch this movie a ton of times and I'm like to a certain extent and I realize this is probably one of the movies that there is a reason that it is boring at a certain point but it's

is a little too boring for me that wedding that wedding takes for fucking ever and it's just and it's again it's just all you're sinking into and i think this is the point of it you're sinking into justine's sort of mindset or whatever but i did want to ask you because you mentioned the kefer sutherland character and i know that like as i said before it's not fair to sort of paste over what's happening in the world now on this movie but what and from your 2020 perspective what did you think about the scenes and the sort of subplot where Claire, the Charlotte Gainsburg character, keeps reading these websites that are telling her that the scientists are all wrong and that the rogue planet melancholia is going to end up crashing into the earth.

And then Kiefer Sutherland as her husband is just like, no, don't read these crackpots on the internet. Trust the scientists. Trust the experts. They're the ones who we should be listening to and ultimately she's right and he's wrong and he's sort of the fool in this whole situation and how did that play to you

these days? The movie has that like gorgeous 10 minute prolog of these like various vignettes and like it ends with us with melancholia smashing into earth so it's like the movie's already built for you to know that it's going to

happen. Yes. So it's like He seems like a fool the whole time. As far as it relates to current events, I felt it very deeply in those scenes, not just because Charlotte Gainsburg Googling anything, I would watch that in any movie. She fully does, like, a Google search, and it's shot very dramatically, and that was amazing. But I also... You love a good Google search scored to Wagner. Like, that's really, you can't get enough of that.

We'll talk about, but she's also, like, on these websites constantly, and I literally thought to myself watching it, I was like, this is me clicking on 538 every five fucking Oh, I said all those parts towards the end where she keeps checking the little, like, wire circle thing to see if the planet has gotten bigger. I'm like, I literally was just like 2011's version of doom scrolling is checking your little wire thing to see if melancholy has gotten bigger it's oh god it's there was so much that reminded me it's like when you log in every 10 minutes uh two weeks ago to uh see if there were um any health updates shall we say yes yes if perhaps anyone has died um it was very that very very that also

can we talk about i was so satisfied you see in one of her doom scrolling searches um the whatever the orbit is for Melancholia. It does like a loop-de-loop before Planet Smash happens. And I was like, that's a death drop. Melancholia death drops into Earth. Wow, what a stunt queen. Melancholia, the original stunt queen. Oh my God, you're so insane. That's so funny. I want to talk about because you mentioned Kiefer briefly, but I want to talk about

how kind of great the supporting cast of this movie is for stuff that, like, ultimately does not matter to this movie. Like, Charlotte Rampling's fantastic. John Hurt, I think, is fantastic. And it's just like... I think this movie is why I kind of viewed Alexander Scarsgard as a dofess for the longest time, because, like, the guy he's playing is not, not an idiot. Like, he's just so, like...

He's again, but he's a character the movie has contempt for. This movie has contempt for a lot of characters, and he's definitely one of them. Okay, one person you didn't mention in the cast lineup who both, every time I've seen this movie, I laugh my ass off at him, is Udo Kier. Udo Kier talking about the beans in the jar? Udo Kier as a gay wedding planner, like, it would be fully offensive, this like character of a gay man if it was like played by anyone else. other than monotone, no expression, Udo Kier.

He gets, he's the wedding planner. He's pissed that the night's not going exactly to the way that he planned it, and he hates Justine. And he at one point says, he's like, I cannot look at her. And then he just like half-acidly puts his hand over his face, and it's so funny. Okay, so what's his whole deal? Because I know that this is an actor who, like, has appeared in a ton of Von Fier's films. And I think a lot of people who are into sort of corners of Euro movie stuff that I am not sort of have a, you know, feeling about Udo Kier.

But I, like, I don't know many other movies that I've seen him in. So I don't quite know how I should feel. I mean, like, talk about being Beetlejuiced into a European set. Like, I think there must be some, like, how there's arts funds and like whatever in European countries because they actually care. about art and, you know, producing film. I feel like it is somewhere in European law or Scandinavian law that Udo Kier has to be in conceivably every European movie. I see. Yeah. Yeah. He's that, yeah. So the wedding is sort of very interestingly populated, even though I do think it does sort of like tend to go on and on and on. It's the longest night

in recorded history. It's just, it's already well into the night when they show up to the wedding two hours late, and it just sort of goes on from there. Charlotte Rampling scene is maybe the funniest part of this whole movie, where she just sort of gets up, interrupts her ex-husband's toast, interrupts John Hertz's toast, and then it's just like relationships disgust to me. Marriage is a ridiculous concept. I hate that both of my daughters have now entered into this. Claire, who I thought, had a good head on her shoulders, really put together this ostentatious and ridiculous wedding, and enjoy it while it lasts.

Like, it's... It's... First of all, what is Charlotte Rampling wearing? It's like a tie-dye dress, kind of, but it's also, like, it, there is a... I just noticed it this time. Her dress is an orb. Like, it looks like a tie-dye circle in the middle of it and the blue of the dress. Oh, is she wearing melancholia?

Is that what's going on? She's wearing melancholia. she she planet smashes the wedding she is the planet that smashes into the wedding the blue is the color blue of melancholia wow oh my you're really hitting the symbolism here chris i like that i know i know so you really like this movie a lot i do um you are not alone most most people really do no i feel like everybody likes this movie way more loudly than i do so i i don't have like the uh like voracious and like consumptive love for this movie that some people have, but I do really like the movie. My love for this movie is consumptive in that I keep coughing up blood into a handkerchief when

I think about this movie. You have to go on, Christian. There was the new haunting of Bly Manor series on Netflix. There's ultimately a consumption portion of that movie.

I was really thinking we haven't had like an actress has consumption movie in a long time. It's been a bit. We kind of need one. We kind of do. It's true. It's true. I always think it's so funny that like how gender that whole thing is. We're like, you watch old-timey movies and when women have

it, it's always consumption. And then when men have it, it's tuberculosis all of a sudden. And it's just because it sounds, I think those like hard consonant sounds sound more muscular in tuberculosis rather than like consumption is so sibilant. And I don't know, let's unpack that. Let's unpack the gender.

Consumption also sounds like accusatory, like it's something you did. Yes, or, no, consumption sounds like everything's gotten too much to bear, and I must lie down on my fainting couch. Whereas, like, tuberculosis sounds like you're having a fist fight with your lungs, and your lungs might be winning, but, like, you're really giving it to them. So, yeah. So gender. Boy. What a world. What a world we live in.

Can we talk about, I don't understand, I maybe don't understand, I maybe don't understand. math in general, but I don't understand the math of John Hurt and Charlotte Rampling giving birth to Kirsten Dunst. Yeah. They're old. They would have had a baby at like 50. Yeah.

Well, you can understand him, because he sort of like comes across as like, you know, this somewhat of a cad and he's got the... Yeah, he comes across like Scandinavian Flava Flav. He shows up to the wedding with two women. Two women both named Betty, but it seems like he just like calls all women Betty, so

maybe that's like a thing of his. And yes, but so like you can see him as being sort of like an old man with a young wife having Kirsten Dunst, but just like Charlotte, or Charlotte Rampling's not taking part in that whole thing. It also absolutely feels like the kind of family where Kirsten Dunst and Charlotte Gainsbourg would be half sisters rather than sisters, but like that's not the case in this at all. And part of that is just like they look absolutely nothing alike.

Like casting those two as sisters is wild. And it would have been even more confusing if it wasn't Kirsten Dund's. Dunson. It was Penelope Cruz, who was originally supposed to be. Yes. And also Olga Kerolenko was considered for that role as well. That would have made more sense. Yeah, with Charlotte Gainsburg, yes. But yeah, yeah. And Charlotte Rampeling. Penelope Cruz originally, I don't think it's that she brought this idea to Vantrier,

but she had gone to Vantrere with a play called, I want to say, the Mades. And it was a play about sisters. And I think that was, and she really wanted to work with Vantrear, which is funny because, like, after all, like, I've heard everything from Bjork and Nicole, and now I really want to work with you. And it's sort of kind of a weird, like, post Tom and Nicole thing, where it's just like, Nicole couldn't do it, but maybe I can make this work after taking over Tom for Nicole for a while. But then she left the film because it conflicted with her schedule to make Pirates of the Caribbean on Stranger Tides. And listen, I know it's fun to make a movie. movie with your husband. I'm pretty sure she and Javier were married by them. Or wait, is Javier not in that one and he's in the next one?

Are they in the next? They're in adjacent consecutive Pirates movies, but not the one together. Well, then I don't know why the hell she was being Pirates of the Caribbean. Penelope Cruz leaving this movie to go do Pirates of the Caribbean four is just like, you know, I like money. Well, she likes money and she probably had a better time making that than she would have making a Lars von Freer movie, so maybe. But then again, She was the one who approached him. Well, it's also a Rob Marshall movie.

So, like, Rob Marshall is conceivably her friend. They've worked together before. Right. Her Oscar nomination for nine that I still find so unnecessary. She'll be waiting there with her legs open. She's not bad in that movie. I just find a nomination for that movie so unnecessary. I don't know.

I feel like her Oscar clip for that movie was ridiculous. I think it was the I'll be waiting for you with my legs open. The problem with trying to remember Oscar clips is that when they show up on YouTube, they've taken the clips out because of rights reasons, which I find. infuriating. Like, even when it's like the official Oscar channel on YouTube, won't be able to include the clips. It's extra dumb on the years where the clips are like 10 seconds long. Well, and it's just, it's also extra dumb because it's just sort of like, the films are providing the clips for the Oscars anyway, so they've already given their

permission. The fact that the permission is so limited to like one time the night of the Oscars is stupid in a way that a lot of rights sort of conversations are stupid. But the other thing is, if the whole point of having a copyright on a film is that you don't want it, A, to be used out of context, which I get, or B, to sort of ruin whatever experience people might have with the movie, like, none of that pertains to a 10-second clip of a film from the Academy Awards. And if nothing else, it's extra fucking advertising for people to go back and, like, watch your movie, you know, and however many years later, it just makes no sense. It's, it's, it's infuriating.

I shouldn't talk about it. It is very stupid. My stomach acid's already churning. I can't get into a conversation about clip rights and the Oscars. About rights issues. I can't do it. Rights issues are also because, like, we were talking about this last week when we did 54. but, like, it has, rights issues has to be the reason we don't have behind the music, right?

Because they use so many songs. Yes, absolutely. It's got to be. Stupid. Very stupid. Rights issues are why we don't. If you ever think of why isn't X show available, it's always because of music rights. It's almost always because of music rights.

Yeah. That was the problem with early seasons of drag race for a while. Yeah. Make your contracts in perpetuity. Make your contracts to reflect the fact that we can, we'll end up showing this. on whatever weird microchip in our brain will exist in, you know, 20 years or whatever. And cover your basis. Vontria really galaxy braint it because he's like, I don't have to worry about rights issues for Wagner.

It's in the public domain. Okay. So all of the music in this movie is Wagner from Tristan Indiesold. Yes. So, yes. So it all sounds incredibly, as you might imagine, dramatic and cataclysmic, which, fits the film very well. But it is also what ended up leading von Trier to the doorstep of his own banishment from the

Canfield Festival. And ultimately, the fact that this movie was a non-starter in anything beyond critics awards when it came to the award season this year. Because he got up there at Cannes, at a press conference, and they were asking him about using Wagner and of course Wagner's sort of relationship to German culture is let's say fraught in terms of anti-Semitism and the Nazis and the whole history of all of that and instead of either a deflecting or be giving a politic answer like giving a politic answer is would probably make von Trier break out in hives like it might just make his like

mouth dry up and swell up and he needed an EpiPen or something like that to deal with the fact that he was being cautious in his answer. Melt him into the floor Margaret Hamilton style. Right. So instead he

decides to be again Edge Lord Lollcat, whatever, decides to talk about how oh well Hitler had some good ideas and I'm probably a Nazi and it's just like a ha ha ha

ha funny joke, B, um, now Can is just like you leave now. Please get out of here and they, I mean, they literally banished him. And, uh, until, the first can't movie to play Cannes after this of his, the nymphomaniacs didn't go to Cannes. Um, House the Jackbilt did though, right? Yeah, but it was out of competition. Right. Yeah, Can.

It was like three hours long and they scheduled it as a midnight movie. Here's the thing. The house the jack built is not. not a good movie. And I've seen most of it probably twice because it's on showtime all the fucking time. Like, all the time. And so I'll be like flipping channels, because of course I still have cable, I'll be flipping channels and I'll just like come across it and I'll just be like, whatever. And I'll just sort of just like, maybe this isn't as bad as I thought it was. And it's just like, it's not like it's going to scar your mind. Like, like, you know, there's some gross shit.

there's some really like disturbing shit in that movie but it's mostly just like it's so and I hate to use the word pretentious but it's so pretentious about um I'm gonna find meaning within yet another fucking misogynistic serial killer of you know everything that I read about it it was either like I mentioned earlier like watching it would feel like we are complicit in his self-destruction yeah and it also just read a lot like it's a troll. Like he's like daring you to call him pretentious. He's like trying to get you to call him a misogynist so that he can tell you you're wrong. But the other thing about his movies, and this again, it's the Woody Allen thing,

of people are still lying it up to fucking work with him. Like it's still Uma Thurman and Riley Keough and Matt Dillon and Jeremy Davies. I mean, the work of his that I love, like I'm, I am one of those people. Like, I'm always kind of curious about him because he made Breaking the Waves. He made, I'm really curious to see, I mean, I don't really want to watch it knowing, like, what Bjork has said about behind the scenes. But Dancer in the Dark, I'm curious about how that would play.

So here's... Even outside of that, because, like, it felt so revolutionary just the way that he filmed it. But also at the time, like, you could interpret the movie for what it's doing because musicals didn't exist. then. So here's my thing. I mean, it came at the exact time before musicals came back, but like, I've, I just don't know if that's going to register today. I've never seen Dancer in the Dark, which is like...

You probably don't want to. It's probably, like, my most, like, it's the oversight that makes the least sense, though, because there is a Bjork musical out there, and I should, like, I absolutely should watch it, and I want to. But every time I talk about it, it's all just like, it's so devastating. It will absolutely wreck you or whatever. And it's one of those things where, like, once you reach, once you pass a certain line where it's just like, well, now it's not a movie from this year. So I don't, you know, need to watch it to incorporate it in my, like, conversations about this year.

And I'm not really like watching it for any kind of thing that I'm writing or a project. So then it becomes if I'm just watching it for pleasure, which I should, and I would like to, I can never find a time where I have put myself in a space where I'm ready to watch it, where I always feel like, because of everything that I've heard, it's like, it's super long. It requires my full attention. So it's just like, well, I can't watch it in the daytime because there'll be a glare on my television. And I can't watch it while like anything else is going to distract me. And I need three hours. And then I also need to be in like an emotional space where I can handle this. And it's a lot. of requirements to watch a movie like that. It's the thing of melancholia where we're talking about that, like, for huge stretches of the movie, it's just kind of boring, and that is the point. But, like, for Dancer in the Dark, it's the same effect, but with emotional brutality. It's a lot.

But, again, it's another film that, it's a Lars von Trier film that features a great performance by an actress, and I think that is a through line that is probably, for For as much as, like, you know, the sadism of his movies and whatever and the depression that sort of flows through these movies, I think the best through line to view, through which to view the Von Trier movies, is that they have such great lead actress performances. Starting with Emily Watson, Oscar nominee for Breaking the Waves, Bjork and Dancer in the Dark, I think Kidman is great in Dogville. Like, I just, I think that whole cast is, but I think Kidman just, like, fucking rules in that movie. Mandurley is an outlier in whatever. I don't blame Bryce Dallas Howard. Like, Bryce Dallas Howard was not equipped to deal with that movie, and I don't hold that against her, really.

Like, Dogville is so complex. It feels like the maybe only, I mean, you can disagree with me here. It feels like maybe the only Lars von Trier movie where he's not explicitly telling you what to think and feel about certain things. Because Dogville had a lot of layers. Maybe, yeah, but still, like, how you're interpreting that and how it relates back to American culture and American violence. And, like, American, I guess if you want to call it xenophobia and class. Yeah. Like, I think there's a lot of complex layers.

there where we can agree that it's great, but we also get different messages from the movie. I think that's right. And I don't think he has that anywhere else in his... Which is funny, because Dogville formally is his most sort of controlling film, where everything, you know, it's on a soundstage and there are chalk outlines for things like hedges and fences and whatnot. And everything is so artificial and is so sort of meticulously controlled, and yet that's, it is interesting that that's the movie that leads itself open to the most thematic interpretation of what's

going on. Gainsburg is in both Antichrist and this, I think, and Nymphomaniac actually, so she got a ton of praise for all of those. I think most, I think the most, like, singular praise she got was for Antichrist because...

I think she's pretty amazing in all of them. Yeah, but I think when Melancholia comes around. That's Kirsten's movie. And then she gets, she wins the prize at Cannes. Kirsten Dunst wins the best actress prize at Cannes. She wins the best actress prize with the National Society of Film Critics, which also names Melancholia its best movie of the year. And the thing with the National Society is, they're the most daring of the major sort of critics groups, but they come so, so late in the game that they have absolutely no hope of influencing. anything? Well, and some of their choices do often feel like

they're trying to influence someone back into the conversation and like it's... But it's always so after the fact of just like it's, I don't know, to me it's always just like, well, great and thank you. But it's like it's, it all almost always feels like an epilogue to me. Right? Well, and it's also, I don't want to say reactionary, but like they tend to, unless it's like the unanimous choice in a year, they'll try to be responsive to other critics groups and, like, mention somebody that's not getting mentioned. Right.

But that's not necessarily true for Kirsten Dunst. She wasn't, she was, like, getting second and third places. That's the thing. That's what I was going to mention. Right. New York Film's Critics Circle names inexplicably. Well, New York Film Critics Circle that year was like, I don't know what was going on because the artist got picture and director. And I don't hate the artist, but, like, it's weird that that's a critics pick for best of the years.

So weird that that movie steamrolled. Streep wins for the Iron Lady at New York Film Critics Circle, which is inexplicable. I don't understand it. Even from like, I thought, like, I thought you people were contrarians. Like, I just, I just don't get it. Their runners up were Michelle Williams for my week with Maryland, which I also kind of don't get. But like, I understand that some people like that film and performance better than I do. And then Kirsten was a runner up there.

So then the Los Angeles Film Critics Association, this was during their run of complete making especially best actress choices that were absolutely off of the chessboard of what was going on. They selected Yun Jong-hi from poetry, which was... Incredible performance. Great performance, great selection. We love that kind of stuff. And then Kirsten was the runner-up there as well. National Border Review, this is the thing in researching all this best actress year that I forgot. Tilda Swinton won National Border Review. She was nominated for the Globe, the Senate. and the BAFTA.

Like, it's wild that she didn't get that Oscar nomination. We will absolutely do. We need to talk about Kevin sometime. We need to talk about Kevin. But, like, I, okay, I feel like you and I were on the same page about that movie where it's like, okay, everybody's going to nominate her, but the Oscars are absolutely not going to do it. And everybody was so shocked, and that not happening was not shocking to me.

I think I was a little shocked. I mean, maybe not, like, I think once it happened, I think it was explicable to me, where it's just like, yeah, that subject matter or whatever. But it's not like Rooney Mara getting nominated for Girl with the Dragon Tattoo was any more, like, that's a film with like some really dark and violent subject matter, too. I guess it's presented in a more like, you know, triumphant way, rock and roll, like, and it's a, you know. It's not just the subject matter of we need to talk about Kevin. And it's the movie itself. Well, yeah, we'll handle that. Who else were our best actress nominees?

This is Merrill wins for the Iron Lady. Viola Davis for the help. The aforementioned Michelle Williams in my week with Marilyn. Rooney for... Who's the fifth that I'm forgetting? Oh, it's your favorite. It's your favorite actress. I'm being sarcastic.

Oh, God. It's Albert Knobst. It is Glenn Close for Albert Knobbs. Yeah. I'm going to watch Albert Knobb soon. I'm going to finally watch that. I think Albert Knobbs is the most recent best actress nominee that I haven't seen.

Oh, that's interesting. And it's just been sitting there. Wait, so you've never seen it. That's wild. Okay. I haven't. So Glenn Close gets the Globe nomination. Globe drama is Streep Glenn Close, Viola Davis, Rooney Mara, and then, as I said, Tilda Swinton. Comedy that year at the Globes is kind of wild.

Michelle Williams wins for my week with Maryland, which is neither a musical nor a comedy. Like, it's, it's, of all that... There's, like, a musical sequence. It's insane. She beats out, um, and I hate doing the, like, oh, like, Globes nominate comedies that aren't comedies, but, like, Jody Foster and Kate Winslet for Carnage in, like, a film that, like, I guess is absurdly comedic and, like, in a very arch kind of way, but, um, yeah.

Charlie's... I mean the play. I laughed my ass. Sure, but again, I think there's such a way that plays can be funny in a way that films aren't, and I think so much of it, I've talked about this, is the release of being in the room when this happens, but like a very archly comedic play does, it has a hard time translating as comedy in a film. But anyway, we got to talk about we'll do carnage at some point. We'll just gloss over the Roman Polansky of it all and talk about the actors because that's...

The movie was directed by no one. An actual comedic performance there, Kristen Wigg, he's almost called her Kirsten. This is havoc for Christens and Kirstens this week's episode. Kristen Wig in Bridesmaids. And then my personal winner that year, Shirley's Theron, in Young Adults, who Best Performance of the Decade. Was never involved in the Oscar conversation beyond Will She Get a Globe nomination, and it's insane. SAG that year was Meryl, Viola, Glenn, Michelle Williams, and Tilda,

so Rooney Mara was not involved in that. BAFTA was Streep, oh, and Viola won the SAG that year for the help. That was sort of when we all sort of had the thought that maybe she'll win the Oscar, and then it didn't happen. And then BAFTA, Streep won, she beat Viola, Michelle Williams, Tilda Switten. And then they had bumped Berenice Bejo up to lead for that movie, for the artist for the BAFTAs, which I don't fully understand.

God, the 2011 Oscars suck. Michelle Williams that year, and again, I don't want to shit. I love Michelle Williams. It's not my favorite performance of hers, and it's not my favorite movie. It's wild to me that the two prizes she won that year were Globe Comedy and Indy Spirit.

The two awards that, like, make no sense within the context of what's going on in that movie. Like, it does not feel particularly, like, daring of a movie. Like, I get that, like, technically it counts as an indie, but, like, it's what Weinstein Company, right? Yeah. Okay.

Now I got to pull up who she was nominated again. I've got it if you want me to read it off to you. Okay. Well, what's this lineup? Because that is unwell. Well, it's a lineup that is very, like, bifurcated between, like, they were taking some real reaches, which is what I appreciate the spirits for. I love when they do that.

Lauren Ambrose for a movie called About Sunny, which I've never seen. nor heard of. And Rachel Harris for a movie called Natural Selection, which ditto. So, like, again, these are probably, you know, movies that played festivals and, you know, the voters really like that. And, like, that's awesome. I like when they, even when it's stuff that is so off the beaten path that I'm just like, I never feel like the indie spirits are wasting nominations with that stuff because at least it's bringing stuff to my attention. And maybe more people will see it. And I like that. The two who I think should have been in contention for the win are Elizabeth Olson for Martha Marcy May Marlene, which if you recall, that movie happened the very

year after Winter's Bone. And like the connecting tissue there is John Hawks. John Hawks has a great supporting performance in both of the movies. And then, so when Martha Marcy May Marlene plays at Sundance, which is, which Winter's Bone did, and got these great reviews. And I remember, and it was like, Breakthrough Elizabeth Olson, you know, you didn't know there was a third Olson sister, and here she is, and she's great. And I remember thinking, well, the, you know, just like paper over everything, the trajectory of Winter's Bone, let's just do this again with Martha Marcy Mae Marlene. It's a young director.

It's very exciting. It is a very different kind of a movie, and I didn't really account for that. But I was just like, well, clearly Elizabeth Olson is going to recur throughout award season and get the breakthrough Oscar nomination. It's going to be a thing. And to the point where I was just like, is John Hawks just getting to get another supporting actor nomination? because he's so great in that.

He's, that whole cast. That's, wait, is Brady Corby in that movie? Because it feels like the kind of... He absolutely is. That's what I thought. I was like, because it feels like the kind of a movie that he would just show up in, right? Okay.

Yeah, he got, uh, somebody said Brady Corby three times into a mirror, and he came back to the States. And then the fifth nominee that year at the Spirits is, of course, Meryl Streep approved Adapiro, Adduye, from What About Pariah? Which, again, fantastic movie. Again, D. Reese Breakthrough film, and she would have been an incredibly worthy winner. Yeah.

So either Ed Aparro or Elizabeth Olson, which I think should have, would have been not only a better winner for the spirits, but also a more indie spirits kind of a winner. Like both of those feel like the kinds of movies that the indie spirits should be going towards, rather than a Weinstein Company movie about Marilyn Monroe starring, you know, Michelle Williams. And again, no shape. Spirit gave best feature to the artist. It's so weird. It's so weird. I always have to feel like whenever I go down this path and I have to remind people that like I don't think the artist is a bad movie.

And I do feel like it's kind of a little cool that like a black and white silent whatever, a movie that was like so stylistically determined, you know, in that way. Like it's not nothing that one. But it's also baffling to me that so many people... John Chardin is really good in it. Sure. But I just... It's always a little baffling to me that it did as well as it did.

And that it was like, premiered at Cannes and everybody was just like, this is the thing. I was just like, wait a second. Like, when did we decide this? Anyway. Yeah, like, as soon as it showed up at Cannes, it's like, well, here's the best picture, nominee. I was like, what the hell? Yeah. Speaking of production companies, though, this was not a...

Weinstein Company film. It was distributed in the United States by tiny little magnolia pictures, which, is it Magnolia Pictures or Magnolia Films? I think it's pictures, yes. As, again, inside baseball, nobody likes to talk about this, but whatever, or whatever, nobody needs to hear about this. But as critics and film writer people, we get at the end of the year screeners. And the one thing back when especially when like DVD screeners were sort of like easing out of the DVD screeners era and into streaming screeners, which I don't like as much, but whatever. I'm a whore for physical media. But what Magnolia would do is, Magnolia, by the way, co-owned by Mark Cuban, who owns the Dallas Mavericks NBA basketball team and is sometimes on Shark Tank. And always rides the line between like, I mean, there are no good billionaires, but like rides the line between like, is he. eccentric enough to maybe, like, do some good things in the world? And one of those things is magnolia pictures. He makes, you know, indie movie distributor.

Anyway, what they'll do... The planet Magnolia. Yeah, exactly. We're going to crash into the planet. Sister wife of the planet Melancholia. Yeah. Yes. So what Magnolia would do is, and they would be like the first out of the gate, is like,

at some point in November, a big-ass package would show up at your door, and it would be just like 20 DVDs in, like, tiny little, like, Little sleeves all brandished with the magnolia. And usually the first one to show up. Always, almost always the first one to show up. And it's like 16 movies you've barely heard of. And then like four that are actually, or not like barely heard of, but like that like really won't have any kind of a prayer within like award season.

And then like maybe like three or four that will. And but it's just like it's this bounty of films. And it's the first ones you get. So you're willing to take more chances with like watching them because you don't have a whole lot of competition at that time. Especially the docs. I always thought it was a great strategy. Yeah, they had some great docs over the years.

One of the better documentary film studios back in the day. But it's one of those distributors that beyond that particular quirk of theirs, sending out the screeners, they've never really had as much of a personality as like an A-24 or even like an Anapurna. or, you know, something like that, like, within the indie world, right? But they've had some really, like, fantastic movies. And so, as I am prone to do, Chris, I made a game for you. Spectacular. Where the films are, all of the answers in this will be,

Magnolia Pictures. Sorry, I got a little distracted because I'm looking through their list. And I saw, remember when we talked about Prime, and I said, everybody go watch Ira and Abby, which is the Jennifer Westfeld movie. Is that a Magnolia movie? That is a Magnolia movie, so good for us. It is not part of this game, however. Okay, so all of the answers to this will be Magnolia Films.

Back when we did, I want to say it was seven years in Tibet, I did a game where you would guess, you would choose at the beginning whether you want five keywords, the tagline, or the, at that point, I think I said second build actress. This time we're going to do keywords, tagline, or the third build performer. and I will say that some of these films, not all of these films have taglines, so in that case I'll just like tell you to pick something else. But all of these films will be from Magnolia movies from 2010 to 2018. I'll give you the year,

and then you can tell me whether you want keywords, tagline, or third build performer. Spectacular. All right, so we're going to go backwards in time. So we're going to start with 2018. This is a film from 2018. Would you like the keywords, the tagline, or the third build performer.

Keywords. Okay, five keywords. They are sexy waitress, attempted burglary, job interview, female friendship, and drinking on a rooftop. Oh, it's support the girls. Support the girls. We love this movie. Janelle, we are a mainstream bar and grill. That's right.

I love that scene so much. Yes, the third build performer in Support the Girls is James LaGro, LaGroose. Oh, wouldn't have gotten that. Would not have gotten that. No, he's sandwiched between the girls that we are supporting in that movie. No tagline for Support the Girls, unfortunately, which is too bad because I feel like it could have had a really good one. You don't need one. Regina Hall is on the poster.

That's all you need to get your ass in a seat. It's true. Listeners, if you haven't watched Support the Girls, stop listening to this podcast right now. I'm pretty sure it's on Hulu. I'm pretty sure you can watch it on Hulu right now. But check it out. Yes. Okay.

Next one is 2017. Okay. A tagline. This doesn't have a tagline. So pick keywords or the third build. Oh, okay. Third build performer. The third build performer is Dominic West, who you have previously mentioned that you have face blindness to.

Yeah. Yeah. In 2017. What? was this actor who I don't remember ever doing. Can I get the keywords? Sure. They are modern art, Stockholm, Sweden, hypocrisy, falling downstairs, and man jumps onto a table.

Is it the square? It's the square. Didn't remember that he was in the movie. He and our friend Lizzie Moss, both in that movie. Yeah. Yes, that was the best foreign language film winner at the Oscars that year, was it? No, it didn't win. I think it was, it was definitely put forward.

That's the Palm Door winner of that year. Yes, yes, yes, yes, very good. I didn't love that movie. It wasn't for me. No, I was sort of, I think I liked it more than I didn't like it, but it gave me a lot to ponder. I think that was one of those movies that I saw, that they screened for me before. TIF started back in New York.

Yes, nominee for foreign language film, but not a winner. Okay, next one is from 2016. Keywords, tagline, or third bill performer? Third bill performer. All right. This one, I think you're going to get it. Third Bill performer, and this is Paulina Garcia.

Ah! Is it Little Men? It's Little Men. One of the best movies of that year. Of a very good year. That movie's so good. We love Iris Sacks. The key words in that one... Paulina Garcia's amazing. Paulina Garcia fucking rocks in that movie.

She should have been nominated for an Oscar for that. She's so great. Absolutely. Keywords in that one were gentrification, teenage dance, landlord-tenant relationship, reference to the LaGuardia High School for Performing Arts. And, of course, acting class.

That fantastic scene in the acting class. It's so good. How long have you been doing this exercise? How long have you been doing this exercise? How long have you been doing this exercise? How long have you been doing the text? I'm not playing with you. I'm not playing with you.

You know, you make me make mistakes in my own exercise. You know, you make me make mistakes in my own exercise. You make me make mistakes in my own exercise. You make me make mistakes in my own exercise. I make you make mistakes in your own exercise. I make you make mistakes in your own exercise. I make this exercise in your own exercise. I make the exercise the way I like it.

I make the exercise the way I like it. I make the exercise the way I like the exercise. I like the exercise. I love the exercise. I love this exercise. I love this exercise. this exercise. I love this exercise.

I don't want to do any other exercise. I don't want to do any other exercise. I don't want to do another exercise. I never want to do another exercise. I never want to do another exercise. You have a terrible attitude. You got a terrible attitude. You have a terrible attitude.

All right. Next one, 2015. Okay. Would you like the keywords, the tagline, or the third build performer? Tagline. Okay. The tagline for this is, illusion sets the stage

deception reveals the truth what the hell I will say it's not a very helpful tagline no it could be anything it could be nothing um third build performer third build performer is Jim Gaffigan uh okay

oh boy I don't know um keywords all right the keywords human behavior, year 1961, talking to the camera, Yale University, and Electric Shock. What? I don't... What?

Human behavior, the year 1961, talking to the camera, Yale University, and electric shock. I really don't think I know what this is. give you the second build performer is Winona Ryder. In a movie with Jim Gaffigan. Cool. I'm willing to bet you haven't seen this movie. Okay.

I'm pretty sure I saw this movie with Griffin Newman, past guest Griffin Newman, that we saw. It was still hanging around in theaters. This is Experimenter. The Peter Sarsgaard experimenter about the... Didn't see the movie. The Electroshock experiments,

where the people kept giving these people they couldn't see electric shocks. Yes. Human behavior. All right. How do we get that job? 2015, again, another 2015 movie. Okay.

Keywords, tagline, or third build performer. Let's try this same route again and see if I had better look. Tagline. The tagline for this is love at any cost. Okay. Third build, perform. Third Bill Performer is Reese Ifans. Oh, my God.

Okay. The, um, the, um, the keywords, I think are going to give it to you. They are bribery, baby in danger, smoky mountains, murder disguised as hunting accident, and timber business. It's Serena. It is Serena. Shout out to our very early episode, Serena. Yes. Love at any cost.

Serena. Yeah. Okay. 2014. Okay. Well, let's just do third-billed performer on this one. All right. Third Bill performer is Clara Weetergin. I am not doing so well. Okay. Keywords. Keywords are Marital Strife, Psychology, Screaming Man, Cowardess, and Ski Resort. force major this is force major and i'm going to take a quick

uh detour off of force major because i need to tell you the other keywords like keywords is brady corbett an actual keyword no um so all this stuff on i mdb is uh user submitted right

so yeah pot keywords being no different and some fucking men's rights organization got to the force majeure plot keywords because I want you to listen to, it goes on forever. Passive aggressive woman, emotionally abusive wife, wife matronizes husband, emotionally abusive woman, mentally unstable woman, emotionally unstable wife, wife, wife embarrasses husband, selfish woman, paranoid woman, egocentric wife. This is exactly why IMDB shut down their comment threads.

Martyrus syndrome. Like what the fuck is a martyrous syndrome? Selfish wife unfaithful wife, sexist woman doesn't exist. Like it's, it goes on for absolutely ever just every possible

different permutation of this bitch embarrassed her husband. Some heckbeard got pissed watching force majeure and went hogwild on the And how telling is it? How telling is it that like it's it's the you mad of movies, right?

Where it's just like, if this is triggering you, it says so much more about you than it does about the movie. But like, our listeners, I haven't even reached the end of the tip of the iceberg about the keywords of force majeure. Go check it out. It is stunning in its bald-faced revelation of the insecurities of certain men is the keywords to that movie, I will say. It is a whole thing. I was shocked anyway. Next film is also 2014. Okay, third build.

Third build is Scoot McNary. Oh, Scoot McNary is a good actor. Problem with Scoot McNary cannot tell you all of the movies he's been in. Right. So I will say keywords. Keywords are musician, mask, attempted suicide, stabbed in the leg, and one word title. Oh, is it Frank? It's Frank.

It's our good friend Frank. Why is he third build? I think it's because Fastbender gets an and credit. It is because Fastbender gets an and credit. Exactly. It's Dominal Gleason, Maggie Gyllenhaal, Scoot McNary, and Michael Fastbender. Yes, exactly. Frank, we've talked about that a bunch of times.

The tagline for that one, I think, might have helped you out after Scoot. It was on May 9th, take off the mask. It's weird that an indie movie is including its release date in a tagline because, like... Indie movies get platformed. It's just weird, but like, nobody's hanging on the release date of an indie movie, except for nerds like us. Okay, anyway, 2014, again. Okay, let's just do the keywords on this one.

Okay. All right, get ready for keywords. Oral sex, anal sex, loveless sex, sex standing up, and Fibonacci sequence. My Friday night. What? I will say them again. Again, oral sex, anal sex, loveless sex, sex standing up, and Fibonacci sequence. Okay.

Who's the third build? I think you'll get it from this. The third bow performer is Shia LaBuff. Ooh. Put them together. Put him together with those keywords. With a Fibonacci sequence. and boot knocking.

Yeah. Maybe concentrate on the boot knocking. All the sex. Lots of sex. Sex, sex, sex, sex, shyly buff. Oh, nymphomaniac. It's nymphomaniac. I was going to say, we've talked about it.

We've talked about it in this episode. It is nymphomaniac, yes. Utterly shocking that Brady Corbett is not a nymphomaniac. The keywords, I would also suggest that our listeners go and check out the keywords to nymphomaniac because it is a laundry list of stuff to try on your weekend. 2013, this next one. Okay, third bill performer. Third Bill performer is Anna Kendrick.

Okay. Keywords. All right. The keywords to this are infidelity, male-female friendship, love quadrangle, brewery, and skinny dipping. Drinking buddies. Drinking buddies. Yes, indeed.

Drinking buddies. I kind of like that movie. Jake Johnson and Olivia Wilde. Yeah. And Ron Livingston, rounding out the love quadrangle. All right. Next one is also 2013. Okay.

Keywords, tagline, or third build performer. Let's do a tagline. This doesn't have one. So how about keywords or third build performer? Third build performer. Rachel McAdams. Oh. I almost said passion, but she's definitely first build.

Yeah. Rachel McAdams was in in 2013. Oh, is it Philip Seymour Hoffman, a Most Dangerous Man? It's not that that's a good guess. I'll give you the keywords. The keywords are dysfunctional marriage, priest, very little dialogue, heard of bison, and hay. What was the last one? Did you say hay?

I said hay. As in horses eat hay. indeed. Bison, Priests. Very little dialogue and dysfunctional marriage. Rachel McAdams' Third Build. And it would have been a Magnolia movie. Yeah. I believe it's the only movie from this director that was a Magnolia movie.

Oh, so this is like a famous director? Yes. A famous director who had a very good year the same year as melancholia oh oh oh is this uh terence malick it is terence malick care to guess i would have thought he would have gotten a bigger distributor for that movie i would have thought too what's the film what is the movie uh to the wonder it's to the wonder see it the keyword is hey if it had been wheat well i couldn't fight wheat was not a keyword so i wanted to have the closest approximation to wheat so i put in hay

Please sound drop Sam Wheat into this. Sam Wheat. Also, shout out to Matt Patches on the Fighting in the War Room podcast, who ever since they were talking about this movie, and he mentioned the title to the wonder, and he said to the wonder to the wall. And it's the only way I've been able to think of the title of that movie since then. So truly, that's one of the funniest things I've ever heard. It's stuck with me ever since. I didn't know that that happened. God bless you, Matt Patches, you beautiful bastard.

Okay, 2012. Third build actor. Third build performer is Luke Kirby. Oh, is this Take This Waltz? The wonderful Take This Waltz. Incredible movie. The Keywords. The keywords to this are infidelity,

shaving legs, alcoholism, rickshaw, and carnival ride. I watched the trailer to this while I was researching this game and I almost stopped everything that I was doing and put on the movie because I need to watch it again soon. It's so good. It's just giving an advertisement to Magnolia

Pictures. It is, but whatever. But like, if you didn't have to stop this episode to go watch, support the girls, please stop this episode and go watch Take This Waltz. And it was so divisive that year. Do you remember how divisive it was? Because sexism. Like, right. She's a difficult

character who leaves her Slubby husband You imagine if the men's rights activists I'm kind of surprised that they didn't We're not going to put that out there Yeah

All right Yeah All the men's rights activists To listen to this had Oscar buzz Yeah Get out of here You You get out of here

Okay I'm Mariel Streep And you get out of here Okay 2010 Okay Third Bill Frank Langella

Oh Well, it's not Robot and Frank. It's not Robot on Frank. It's also not the trial of Chicago 7 where Frank Langella plays Judge Richard Nixon. It's great. I love it. It's a good movie. Langella's maybe the worst performer in it, but like he's like...

Oh, he's bad. He's playing his Richard Nixon from Frost Nixon as that judge, and it's great. I love it. Okay, Frank Langella, that's not going to get me there. Keywords. Keywords are... Missing Woman, Dysfunctional Marriage, Health Food Store, Domineering Father, and fictional character based on real-life person. Okay.

Is there a tagline? There is. The Perfect Love Story, until it became the perfect crime. Hmm. I... I don't know. I would focus on missing woman and fictional character based on real-life person. And it's a crime movie.

There is also a very direct connection to the film we're talking about this week. Oh. I mean, direct connection to this movie. It can't be Von Trier. It is not Fondrier. Is it a cursing done? Oh, it's all good things.

It's all good things. Yes. The, uh, the, uh, the, Killed them all. Barely veiled Robert Durst's story. Yeah, that's also made me want to go watch the jinx again, actually, after, uh, uh, watching. Killed them all, of course. Exactly.

Um, you sound way too much like him and, uh, unsettling. All right. Last one is also 20. Oh, okay. So one more. Um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um. I just need to throw something out there. So third build actor.

Third build actor is Eduardo Gabrilyni. Fantastic. So keywords. Keywords are sexually dissatisfied wife, speaking with a Russian accent, prawns, hematoma, and older woman, younger man relationship. I am love. I am love. Tildes Winden and I am love.

Did you get it by speaking with Russian accent? Yes. Yes, famously learned how to speak Italian in a Russian dialect. She's out of her mind, and we love her for it. Yes. I like this game. I feel like we should play this game more. That's fun.

We'll find excuses to play this game again. Maybe I'll trick you in it in one of our coming episodes or something. We've got to talk about Ms. Dunst. We haven't really talked about her that much. I think that she's one of the reasons people have wanted us to do this movie. She makes such such. fascinating choices that like those people like the justice for kirsten dunst people are i fear going to be on that soapbox for a while because she doesn't necessarily make the type of choices

that are like oscar fodder well and she also even isn't being offered leading lady roles and films anymore right like her role in uh hidden figure was like it kind of bombs you out that it's like that's a major actress and she's in this nothing role her career is fascinating i want to sort of run it down briefly just because this this movie melancholia comes at a real interesting point in her career what's it's kind of a comeback role for her right where um interview with a vampire is her big breakthrough golden globe nomination i know she had been in some stuff before that but like interview with a vampire is where it happened yes

She's fantastic in that. She has some, like, good, like, young kid role. She's in Jumanji. She's in Small Soldiers. She's in Wag the Dog in a very sort of funny little role. And then levels up in 99. She's... 99 is such a great year for her.

She does Drop Dead Gorgeous, Dick, and the Virgin Suicides. Wait, Virgin Suicides doesn't get released until 2000. But, like, 99, I think it plays a festival or something like that. Right, right, right. And then 2000, it's bring it on. So, like, 99, 2000 is, like, where Kirsten Dunst goes from being, like, talented young actor all this potential and then like all that potential hits the screen in four very different movies in 2000 like that's the other thing is what she's doing in virgin

suicides is so different than what she's doing in drop dead gorgeous is so different than bring it on even like even though those are two comedies like she's doing real different things in both of those and that's so different than what she's doing in dick and it's so it had like we're used to that kind of versatility from much older performers I feel like to see that kind of versatility and somebody that young was incredibly exciting back then. I think also that level of like comedic versatility because even though those are like body like semi-campy comedies, like her performances in Bring It On Dick, Drop Dead Gorgeous are all very different. Yes.

Yeah, it's a very different kind of comedy she's giving you. And then in the midst of all that to do the version suicides where she's this sort of unknowable ideal. kind of a person. And then even within that context, she gives you something. That's, of course, her first collaboration with Sophia Coppola, which would end up, you know, bearing fruit later on for her as well. And then immediately after that, like, four movie runs, she starts to do interesting different things, right? She's in the Cats Meow in 2001, got a little bit of Oscar buzz for that, I'm pretty sure. And then Crazy Beautiful, which is a movie that I feel like nobody really talks about anymore. And it's not that remarkable, but it

was sort of in that... It was a not great movie that she got incredible reviews for. She got incredible reviews and it was part of this, I feel like, kind of run of movies. I always connect this movie with that Drew Barrymore movie, Mad Love. And it felt like we have these

really enigmatic, talented, young, pretty blonde actresses and we don't know what to do with them. So we'll just make them, give them a movie where it's like a romance that is tinged by madness and that'll be... Or alcoholism. Right. That'll be the hook for that movie.

Okay. So then 2002, obviously, she gets the role as Mary Jane Watson in Spider-Man. And Sam Rating Me's Spider-Man movies. She's in all three of those films. And then it feels like while she's doing these big sort of blockbuster swings with Spider-Man, she's making really interesting movies that don't all pan out. We're like, Eternal Sunshine, she takes a supporting role. She's phenomenal in that movie.

Yeah, she's amazing. She really grounds the end of that movie. in, like, that movie is Jim Carrey and Kate Winslet's romance, right? But, like, Dunst, especially at the end of that movie, really grounds, like, what else is going on with, like, the lacuna stuff in, which had been sort of, like, silly and sort of fantastical. And she really, like, lands the emotion of, like, what's going on with that. I don't know if that movie doesn't work without her being as great as she is in that whole. I agree. I absolutely agree.

Like, I think the movie falls apart without that character. I think that's very true. She's so underrated in that film. She makes the romantic comedy Wimbledon with Paul Bettney, which doesn't work, but I always respect the swing, no pun intended, of just trying to do a very meat and potatoes rom-com within the world of professional tennis. You know I love that shit.

Elizabeth Town, which bombs and which kind of gets hung on her in a way that is unfair because she didn't write that role. but like the concept of the manic pixie dream girl gets sort of hung on that film and that role of hers and it's an implausible role but right she's she's giving the best she can she's always as always so like charismatic and magnetic in that 2006 she makes marie antoinette she's back with sophia coppola that is a movie that not everybody got at the time and still maybe not everybody gets but i think there's much more appreciation for it now absolutely it's a really great performance it's a really um it's very easy to underrate that performance but she nails it i think i think she's so good in it spider man three which sort of kills the spider man franchise and it probably was for the best that they didn't go on making sort of spider man movies in perpetuity with those ones with that sort of group anyway but then after is so embarrassing.

After that movie, she doesn't really make a major movie for almost three years. This is during that time where she ends up going to a facility to treat her depression. There were rumors that she was having substance abuse issues, and she sort of had to clear those up later that she was going through this bout of depression, and she went to a rehab facility, for lack of a better term for it. Like, and kind of her career really hasn't been the same since then, which isn't to say that she, her work suffered or that she's, you know, any less of an actress now. But like that interruption in her career never really got back to the levels that she was in terms of at least like casting. She comes back in 2010.

She's in all good things, the aforementioned Robert Durst film with Ryan Gosling. reviews for it. It does get great reviews for it. But that movie was very much a kind of an afterthought. And people would like talk it up. It's just like this movie that we're not talking about enough is all good things. But like we weren't talking about it enough.

And then in 2011 comes Melancholia. And it's this great, it's probably her, one of her last great leading roles. I also, for as much as I don't love Melancholia, the next year, my Justice for Kirsten Dunst movie is Bachelorette, which comes out the next year, and she fricking rules in that. And that's another one where it's two great performances, two really different, like, vibes going on. But, yeah, she gets all these fantastic accolades for Melancholia.

And do we think it's just that, like, the Vantrir of it all dragged everything down and made it impossible for her to be a part of her? to be a part of the best actress conversation once it made it past the Critics Awards phase? I kind of do. I mean, I don't, I mean, like, you, you, we joked earlier that, like, this is a lot, like, the movie itself is a stumbling point for Oscar,

but, like, I don't think, if you're just talking about the performance, I don't think there's anything here that's any more taxing than, like, breaking the waves was 15 years prior. So, yeah, I do actually think Von Trier was tainted enough to keep her out of the conversation. And even to the point where, like, at that can, Melancholia was one of the, like, best-reviewed, most widely loved movies. And, like, of course, what they chose to award it is Kirsten Dunst, which, like, avoids having to deal with him and award the movie. itself a prize. Right.

But, and that's not to say that she's not incredible in the movie and like, whatever, but like they were taught when it first premiered,

there was like talk that it would be a contender for the palm door. And of course, it didn't. Right. I don't know. I mean,

I do, we've talked a little bit about this before and this is not to, uh, like speak ill of any distributor or like, you know, punch down in any type of way.

But like, we've talked before that there's certain distributors that are smaller that already have an uphill climb when you're talking about major categories or categories that are not documentary feature or international feature. Right. That it's just like because there's less cash flow and they can't spend the money to, you know, host parties send out like fancy screener packages. Right.

Do you feel like, do you feel like, because this was just before 824 happened, right? so like do you feel like if it had a studio that had a little more muscle behind it like an 824 obviously like a searchlight or a even like a Sony classic brand kind of idea like you mentioned earlier like magnolia hasn't been a distributor that has their own like stamp you know you know what a magnolia movie is right um i also just feel like i do think that's possible like if this had been a And it, like, a cool place for movies like an A-24, it would have gotten it more attention. I also just feel like I can almost envision what the narrative for her is, right? Because it is a comeback movie. Like, they could have really made some hate with that. They could have really, you know, talked about her, I mean, not to, like, advocate for, you know, film publicists to use someone's own sort of fraught mental health history. but like there is something that could have been made about her sort of battling through her own demons

and making it out on the other side and all this sort of stuff and maybe or they could have just as easily done and like this is somewhat disingenuous because obviously she had done dramatic work before but the narrative of this is an actress you know for superhero movies and fun comedies and look at what she's doing in this movie. That is itself a narrative that we've seen a ton of times. But the other side of that coin is, we talked about earlier in the episode about how Tilda Swinton got all those precursors

and doesn't get a nomination, where you have a character who's not a... It's not that Justine and Melancholia is unlikable, but she's not approachable. Like, she's... She doesn't invite kind of warm feeling

and the film ends, much like, not like we need to talk about Kevin, but like both of those films end on real fucking downers in different ways. And it's a lot easier, obviously, we've seen this like time and again, it's like barely worth, you know, mentioning, but like happier movies, more approachable movies are easier to sort of build Oscar campaigns around. We've seen that again and again, especially for Indies. Or it's easy for them to be packed. This is not really, and I don't even know if it's that easy of a performance to, like, package and sell, like, on the performance itself for, like, what's so good about it.

And that's, I think that's something that's very true of Kirsten Dunst in that, like, she's a really fascinating, really talented actress who can do a lot of different things that are uncommon. but because they're uncommon, people don't notice it when they should. And that's the thing that makes me worried, like, if she does get the type of role that we think that she deserves and could, like, get awards attention for it, I'm worried that she would just be overlooked again. I'm dipping into sort of her upcoming projects. She had been on this Showtime series on Becoming a God in Central Florida, which just recently got canceled after its first season. I didn't watch.

Did you watch that show at all? I don't have show time. Yeah. I'm going to catch up to it because I was dying to watch it. There's too much TV. I would have wanted to watch it too. I think the fact that now it's been canceled will probably make me less likely to see it, unfortunately,

just because the, like, giant pile of TV I need to watch. It's there. So she had been, that had been sort of taking up a lot of her time. The only thing on her IMDB in the future, however, she's supposed to be in a Jane Campion movie coming up soon that is called The Power of the Dog. With her handsome hubby, right? Right, Jesse Plemons, Charlie Kaufman,

Anointed, whatever, Avatar, Jesse Plemons, yes. Also, Benedict Cumberbatch is supposed to be in that movie, Thomas and McKenzie, who is so great in Jojo Rabbit, but also what was the thing? Leave no trace. Leave no trace. So great in Leave no trace. Francis Conroy's in this movie Cody Smith McPhee

It's a well-cast movie I want to see what the status of this is At least on IMDB It is said to be Doesn't it usually tell you if it's like filming or whatever Maybe not It says it's in post It says it's in post

Okay so maybe we will see this movie Soon which would be cool Because it's Jane Campion I would be willing to bet that it's next year's can Oh That's a really good point That's a very good point I'm trying to see if there's

Oh and it's a Netflix It's a Jane Campion Netflix Everything that I said It will not be in next year's It won't be a can But we'll have a better chance to see it Out of competition They were supposedly going to show

Defive Bloods out of competition Right This year Because Spike Lee was also going to be The head of the jury Correct But yeah so also I think the fact That it's a Netflix movie

Means there's a better chance that we'll see it sooner than later, perhaps. And again, I mean, whatever, I don't want to get into the whole theatrical versus at-home viewing. Obviously, a Jane Campion movie deserves to be seen on the biggest screen possible. The logline for this movie says, A pair of brothers who own a large ranch in Montana are pitted against each other when one of them gets married.

So it does sort of seem like she's going to be like, the woman between two men, but it being a Jane Campion movie, I have confidence that that will be... It's going to be more complicated than that logline. And that her role won't be as underwritten as that logline suggests she might be. So I think there's reason to be excited

for Kirsten Dunst in a Jane Campion movie. I would say for Kirsten Dunst that the opportunity that should have been taken to nominate her, and I don't want to go too far into it because we could do an episode on this movie. She's amazing in The Beguiled. I think she's the best performance in that movie. Oh, go on.

She's just, she's like perfectly cast for like what she's asked to do. But like, and that's, I know a lot of people have complicated feelings about that movie. I think that it's great. I want to see it again. I feel like I didn't walk away with strong feelings about it in any direction. and that seems so odd to me from a Sophia Coppola movie that I want to see it again. Well, maybe we'll eventually do an episode on it.

Do you feel like, because we watched Sophia's latest movie on The Rocks recently, a movie that I liked and you loved? I seem to love it more than most people do. I think it's wonderful. I think, first of all, these people that are out there that are like, it's Sophia Coppola's worst movie. I'm like, okay, well, we just started this limbo game, and the bar is at the ceiling. I don't, I don't, I don't think Sophia Coppola has a worst movie. That's my take on things.

I guess the Beguiled, I feel like is her worst movie, but like, whatever. Like, that doesn't mean anything. She makes great movies. When this episode airs, the movie will be out there, I believe. So, like, there'll be more opinions than the first opinions. Yeah. So, like, the conversation around the movie could have changed, but, like, my, I think it's great. felt very much like the Sophia Coppola movie that in five years, everybody's going to suddenly be like, actually, this movie's great. And when it's always been great, the same thing that happened with Somewhere, even though I was one of those people that took a while to get to the movie. Maybe that's the opposite, because I was with Somewhere right away, and maybe I'll be the one who takes a little bit longer to get around to. And again, I really liked it. And I think Murray's

fantastic. My major hang up with that movie is, I don't think Rashida Jones comes up to the level of where she needs to at the big moments of the movie and maybe a rewatch will change my opinion. But I do feel like what if Kirsten Dunst in that role instead? Because obviously she's a great, you know, collaborator for Sophia.

And it would be, would have been, you know, nice to get Kirsten back to sort of those sort of lighter comedic roots of hers that she, you know, had been so good in. I don't know. I don't know if Kristen Dunst would have that kind of chemistry with Bill Murray.

That's a good point, but it might be interesting, it might be interesting experiment to check out. I liked Rashida in the movie. I like, I genuinely like her. I know when a lot of people were like hating on her as sort of like the weak link of Parks and Recreation, I really loved her in Parks and Recreation. So like I am not a Rashida Jones hater, but I don't know. I liked the performance. Anyway. Anyway, Ms. Dunst.

We love her. We love her. We love her. She's great in this. She should have been nominated. That lineup is terrible. It's a weak lineup. 2011 Oscars are a week Oscar year in general.

Yeah. Oh, I wonder what my... Actually, I know we're... We've got plenty going on in this episode, but I want to bring up what my... Do we want to do our best actress balance in this year? Yeah. What if Melancholia is our longest episode? That's wild.

That'd be insane. It's not going to pass Mother. No, probably not. It's also like, it's our shortest outline for an episode we've done in forever, so of course it'll be our longest episode. Yeah, under our Why Did It Fail area? It says, L.O.L. Did you watch the movie? That was me. That was me being a Lars von Trier-esque brat. Okay. So 2011, which I think is a great, interesting year for movies. It just wasn't reflected in the Oscars. So I actually don't have Dunstan my top five. Maybe I should change that. I had, well, all right. So I have. alphabetical order Julia Pinoche in certified copy

which is I believe my number one movie of that year it's so so good as I'm trying to do alphabet on the fly Elizabeth Olson and Martha Marcy May Marlene aforementioned Anna Pacquin in Marguerette which is great we've talked about that movie a few times before on here Tilda Swinton and we need to talk about Kevin

and Charlize Theron in young adults and then my runners-up are Viola Davis to help in Kirsten Dunst in melancholia. I think I would have the same ballot as you with swapping Kirsten Dunst in for Tilda Swinton. Hmm. Yeah, I mean, that's... Wait, so it's really...

The floor that we overlap on, like, I can't argue with that. I'm not even pulling up whatever outdated document that I would have on here because I just watched Certified Copy this year, and she's amazing. She's amazing. Another underrated performance that year that I don't really have on my ballot, but I wonder if I was making this list now, I might, is Sersha Ronan and Hana, which is a very different kind of performance. It's a lot of nonverbal.

I do think Kate Blanchett often walks away with that movie. But, like, looking at that film in the context of everything else that Sersh's career has become, it's almost more impressive because it really showcases her, versatility. You talk about like versatile younger actresses. Like Kirsten and Sersh could be talked about in that sort of same conversation. That's true. Who would be your winner, though? Charlize is mine, obviously. Charlize is my runner-up, but no, she's my winner that year. I should also say that I do, I'm so freaking pretentious. I have a breakthrough actor sort of little section of mine, which is where I would put out of paro that year for pariah.

That's probably true. She would probably be my sixth place. Maybe she would overtake Elizabeth Olson. Yeah. It's a strong year for Best Actress. It's why it's such a bummer that it kind of got bogged down in not great, not as good performances that were nominated and won, much as I love Merrill and her speech that year. All right. Do we want to do an IMDB game, Christopher? Let's do the IMDB game. Tell the kids. Tell the kids. Tell the kids. That's how we would do that. All right, every week as we wait for melancholia to smash into the earth, we end our episodes with the IMDB game where we challenge each other with an actor or actress to try to guess the top four titles that IMDB says they are most known for.

If any of those titles are television or voiceover work, we'll mention that up front. After two wrong guesses, we get the remaining titles release years as a clue. If that's not enough, it just becomes a free-for-all of hints because what does it matter? Melancholia is going to kill us all. Indeed. All right. Would you like to give first or guess first? I think I'm going to give first.

Okay. All right. I didn't go that far into the barrel, but I went with Kirsten Dunn's co-stars, and I'm giving you one of her most famous co-stars, Mr. Toby McGuire. Have we never done Toby McGuire? her fellow franchise cohort. Sure. Okay. All right, Toby.

Well, Spider-Man has to be on there. Spider-Man is on there. Is Spider-Man 2 on there? No. Surprising. Twist. Okay. All right. All right. So now we traverse the Toby Maguire experience. All right. Well, I'm going to go.

guess he's not the lead in this but i'm going to guess that great gatsby shows up no damn it okay give me years all right that's your two wrong guesses your years are 2009 2000 and 1998 2009 2000 in 1998 all right so 2000s is it wonder boys wonder boys wow okay playing the The sexually malleable young wonderkind writer slash nutball in that movie, he wants up sleeping with Robert Downey Jr. It's a good movie. All right. What are the other two years? 98 in 2009. 98. He's just a little guy in 98. Okay. Well, let's see. The Ice Storm was 97. What's he doing in 98?

is the lead of this movie. I'm sure he wasn't first build because he wasn't fully famous at this point, but he is absolutely like the protagonist of this movie. Is it one of those like coming of age

kind of a thing? I mean, probably technically yes, but that's not what we know that movie for. Oh. If we ever do exception episodes. It's Pleasantville. It is Pleasantville. I fucking love

Pleasantville. You're right. I love Pleasantville, too. He's never the person I think of when I think of Pleasantville, even though he is unquestionably the lead of that movie. And he's good in that movie, but like everybody else around him is great. Joan Allen is great. Reese is great. Masonville is great. Daniels is great.

Yeah. Pleasantville. Is 2009 Brothers? It is brothers. I can't believe. I can't believe. It is the first movie on his known for. Over Spider-Man 2.

That's over Spider-Man. wild that's absolutely wild all right well i got that one quicker than i thought it would do you have for me so i went the vontrere route we talked about how the one vuntrier movie that i really like is dogville and one of the stars of dogville who does a great job of at first seeming good and then ultimately being one of the worst is paul bettney so gimme give me give me those four paul bettney i was going to say, where are you going with this? Because they all end up being the worst. No, but he sort of presents as like he's the nice guy, right? And then, uh, very much not. Paul Bettney, who is in the upcoming, uh, Amazon movie and Alan Ball Project, uh, Uncle Frank, which I watched.

And Paul Bettney is good. The movie. The movie's bad. Yeah. The movie's bad. It's bad. Um, it starts out really promising. Um, but it just like really shits the bed almost immediately. Okay, Mr. Paul, is Dogville one of them? Dogville is not one of them. Okay.

Master and Commander. Yes, Master and Commander, the far side of the world. Beautiful mind. Beautiful mind, yes. Is he the imaginary one in a beautiful mind? One of the Avengers have to be on there. Infinity War. No.

No Avengers movie. movies. Is he the imaginary one in a beautiful mind? I thought there was multiple ones. Well, Ed Harris is also imaginary, but he's he the one that was like his friend, his best friend, who turns out to be imaginary? Maybe. I just remember him being in that movie. Yeah. Okay. Well, what are my years then?

Right. Your years are 2001 and 2011. Yeah, I mean, 2001 is like the era of Paul Bettney being a thing. but what movie is it? Yeah, Beautiful Mind is also 2001. It does a beautiful mind. Ooh. I will say this is the movie

that kind of launched him. Like nobody knew who he was and then this movie happened and then people were like, oh, he's a thing. Right. Um, okay He really pops in this movie He's like he's not the lead character

But like he's a supporting character Who like really steals the show Yeah, that tracks I just can't get to what it is Um Maybe I need to do the other year What was the other year? 2011

Which The year we're talking about Is a real ensemble of a movie. He's on the poster of it. The poster has eight actors on it and he is one of them. Interesting.

He's technically second build although weirdly I don't remember what he does in this movie, but I'm somewhat hazy. Big ensemble movie in 2011. It's an ensemble movie in 2011 that

nominated for one Oscar. Okay. major category Are one of the actors nominated? No, but it's like the most One of the most major non-acting categories Writing Yes

Margin Call Yes, margin call Good job How did you get to Margin Call? Ensemble in a screenplay Yeah, good job Do you want to take a little sidegander And try and guess the eight actors

On the poster for Margin Call? Kevin Spacey Demi Moore Yes Who else is in that movie Tucci? Tucci's in that movie Oh Zachary Quinto

Quinto is in that movie Yes Who else is it? You're only missing three because I also told you that Bettney's there So there's only three more One young, one old, one in the middle Well they're all men because there's Like this is a dude movie

Nemore is the only woman on the poster. One of them was on a famous youth-focused television show. One of them was in a movie that gay Twitter loves, but he's not a role that they love, although not the role that everybody hates in this movie. And then one of them is a best actor winner from the 90s, from the early 90s. it's not Kevin well Kevin Costner didn't win best actor from the early 90s

um who did win best actor that year Pacino's not in it no Pacino wasn't the year as Dances with Wolves oh dances with Wolves who won Best Actor that year is that Jeremy Irons Jeremy Irons is on the poster of margin call all right so next one what's a movie that like gay Twitter memes constantly from the mid-2000s was a best actress nominee Mid-2000s.

Best actress nominee, mid-2000s. Notes on a scandal. Nope, but that same year. Devil Wars Prada. Yep. An actor in Devil Wears Prada that is not Stanley Tucci, the aforementioned Stanley Tucci. Correct. God, fucking entourage guy.

Nope, the other one. He's not in. The other guy in Devil Wers Prada besides him. Daniel Sanjada. No. See, you're forgetting that he's, even a role in this movie, even though he's, like, pretty prominent to the narrative. I know who he is, the blonde one. I just don't know his name. Simon Baker. He's, Simon Baker. He could

easily be Doug Reescott to me. Yes. Yeah, Simon Baker in that movie is a anthropomorphized metrosexual scarf. Exactly. All right, so your last one was on a very famous youth-focused television show in the late aughts. Oh, I was going to say, is this, like, youth-focused Nickelodeon? Nope, no. Teens, and, uh... Did I watch this show? I...

You don't ever talk about it, but, like, it launched some careers. I have a feeling it's going to be Gossip Girl, which I'd never watched. It is Gossip Girl. Okay, then I don't know who that is. But you know who Penn Badgley is. You know he's like a thing. Oh, is it Penn Badgley? It's Penn Badgley, yeah.

All right, there's your Margin Call. I've never seen him in anything other than Margin Call. All right. Really? You've never seen him in anything other than Margin Call. I don't think so. I'm trying to think of what else you would have now that he's in that television show where he's a star. Did I get the last Paul Betney movie? No, you didn't.

You're still waiting on the 2001, which was his breakthrough. I don't think I know what it is. You do know what that. I think I know what it is, but I don't... It's very stylized, but it's period. Uh-huh. It stars a future best actor nominee and best supporting actor winner. Who it's very sad to talk about these days.

Heath Ledger. Yeah. Oh, it's a Knight's Tale. It's a Knight's Tale. You know it, though. You know what a Knight's Tale is. I know it. I know it as an entity, but I don't know Paul Bettney's performance. So he plays Chaucer. He plays Jeffrey Chaucer.

He's sort of a Randy gad about Jeffrey Chaucer. It's very fun, fun movie. All right, hit the two-hour mark on our Melancholia episode, and now our planet goes crashing into another. So thank you for this. Any last? The memes of this summer, the 9-1- or Chromatica 2 into 911,

one of my favorites was Chromatica 2, into 911, but melancholyus smashing out here. Oh, God. That is rough. Oh, I did want one last little tidbit when I was going through the trivia tab on IMDB. One of the things it noted is that five actors from this movie have played vampires in other movies, or other movies or television, because it's Kirsten in interview with the vampire, Alexander Scarsguard on True Blood, John Hurt in Only Lovers Left Alive, Kiefer Sutherland in The Lost Boys, and your friend Udo Kier in Blade. I was going to say, Udo Kier has played multiple vampires.

I'm pretty sure he plays a vampire in every movie he's in. Yeah, exactly. He's a vampire in this movie. Conceivable vampire, Udo Kier. All right. Yes. All right. Thank you for a great episode, Chris.

That is our episode. If y'all want more This Had Oscar Buzz, you can check out the Tumblr at ThisHadoscarbuzz.com. You should also follow our Twitter account at Had underscore Oscar Buzz. Chris, where can the listeners find you in your stuff? You can find me in my little tent of sticks waiting for Melancholia to arrive, I guess, on Twitter at Chris V-File. That's F-E-I-L, also on letterboxed under the same name. I am on Twitter at Joe Reed, Reed spelled R-E-I-D.

I'm also on letterboxed as Joe Reed, read spelled the exact same way. We'd like to thank Kyle Cummings for his fantastic artwork and Dave Gonzalez and Gavin Muvius for their technical guidance. remember to rate and review us on Apple Podcasts, Google Play, Stitcher, or wherever else you get podcasts. A five-star review in particular really helps us out with Apple Podcast's visibility. So please quit obsessively checking your telescope and write something nice about us, won't you? That is all for this week, but we hope you'll be back next week for more bud. Christ in love Christ in the moon