This Had Oscar Buzz - 130 – The Station Agent

Episode Date: February 1, 2021

For this episode, we’re returning to 2003 with the film that almost won the Listeners’ Choice for our previous 2003 miniseries: Tom McCarthy’s The Station Agent. Starring Peter Dinklage in his breakout role as Finn, a loner who inherits a vacant train station in rural New Jersey and reluctantly makes a small circle of friends with … Continue reading "130 – The Station Agent"

Uh-oh, wrong house. No, the right house. I didn't get that! We want to talk to Marilyn Hacks. I'm from Canada, Water. Hey, how you doing out there? We don't have to talk, we can just eat. They're trying to get their lives back on track.

This was fun, right? Yeah. You have a nice chin. Very lucky, bro. She's a pretty woman. Give a man. What do you mean? Get them in.

Okay. Three-time winner at the Sundance Film Festival. You who? Whoa! A tree chasing, baby! What made you pick and found him? I wanted to live near Joe. Guys, you come up here and talk.

Seriously, this sucks. The station agent. Hello and welcome to the This Had Oscar Buzz podcast. The only podcast with 600 different kinds of smiles, each one of them indicating we're probably still thinking about cats. Every week on This Had Oscar Buzz, we'll be talking about a different movie that once upon a time had Lofty Academy Award aspirations, but for some reason or another, it all went wrong.

The Oscar hopes died, and we are here to perform the autopsy. I'm your host, Joe Reed. I'm here, as always, with the lady in her Jeep Cherokee repeatedly running me off the road, Chris File. Hello, Chris. Hello, Joe. Here I am in my bucket hat. I knew you were going to mention that. I literally made that a note so early in this movie.

I was like, God bless the temporal preciseness and perfectness of Sarah, of Patricia Clarkson's bucket hat in this movie. It's so good. It's so perfect. The placement of paint. all over her fingers because she's a painter and probably doesn't wash her hands, it appears, throughout the entire movie. Oh, my God. We're going to be talking about Patricia Clarkson so much in this episode, and rightly so.

It is, to the best of my telling, our first time talking about a Patricia Clarkson movie, which is wild and crazy because she's one of my favorite actresses, I feel like. She's one of those, do you know how you have that, like, 30s and. your favorite actresses, and then there are the ones who are like, oh, I want to, like, just have a coffee with this person and just, like, chat. And I feel like she's, like, in that perfect middle of that Venn diagram, where it's just like, oh, she's both. Like, I admire her so much, and yet she seems like a really fun person to just sort of, you know, talk to. She's always nice to see in interviews, too, because she just always seems, like,

so authentically herself and funny and, like, just... It was such a... like so good to have her back in like the ether when sharp objects happened because like you kind of forget it feels like she went away for a while and it's because during the aughts like this period that we're going to be talking about 03 especially it was just like she was everywhere and then getting cast in a lot of even if they weren't great roles for her like she was always prominent in like prestige things like good night and good luck right um so yeah i think we need to have another I would love a patisance, for sure. The patrasants? The patricisans, yes. Her versatility is something that I feel like doesn't get talked about enough, where, like, she can project warmth so easily in a film. I think this is one of those kinds of movies that she does that,

where it's just like her just sort of having an easy conversation with you, so much warmth. And yet there are other roles, Sharp Objects is one of them, where it's just like, oh, she's like, you would think like, oh, she was made to be this icy and this sort of terrifying. And her terrifying, whenever she's terrifying,

it's never big. It's always like it's that or it's maze runner or it's the woods that the movie that made M. Night Shyamalan have to change the village. The title of the village. Which I watched for the first time this Halloween in my attempt to watch scary movies over Halloween. And it's not a great movie, but like that's another one where it's just like, oh, she projects,

she's fearsome, but like never big, never like in a big way. It's always very controlled and suspicious. I kind of think that what it is is like she, it's not just a versatility thing where she can just step into any different type of role. But it's also that like she has such a screen presence that always feels like a completely composed person, you know, like, you never really feel like you see a thinly drawn Patricia Clarkson performance, even though, like, I'm sure we'll talk about her actual nomination for pieces of April. Yeah, yes, we definitely will. And, like, that character she's

being tasked to play. But, like, she's always so formidable or inviting because, like, there's something just believable about her showing up on screen in any type of characterization. Right. But, and, and also, like, she's, played characters who have been very flighty, and yet sometimes she plays characters who are very intelligent, like, she just, she projects, she can project a lot of gravitas or sort of, you know, you feel like you know a lot about a character of hers with very little time spent with them, and yet, like, that can go in a lot of different directions, which is very cool. I wanted to sort of set the stage for this movie a little bit, sort of emotionally,

because as I texted you last night when I was watching this, I was like, indies from about 2002 to 2006 are such a mood for me for like various life reasons. This was sort of the period right after college for me. I was sort of getting into the movie blog-ishness, you know, that sort of universe, the Oscar-watch universe,

but also just sort of just like I was really kind of, of cultivating my movie writerness and, like, it's very, very earliest stages, but I had also had all this time, because, like, my job situation was so fledgling at that time. I had all this time to just sort of, like, go to the indie theater and see everything. And it's just, station agent feels like the perfect emblem of that. As I'm watching this, I was just like, oh my god, like so much sense memory is kind of flooding into me for this. And I'm curious as to if you have any kind of emotional, did you see this in a theater? Like, where were you sort of at when the situation came out?

I did. I mean, like, I was definitely there for, like, that period of my life being, like, activated as an Oscar person. Yeah. And, like, independent cinema of the time, especially if it was any near adjacent. to the awards race but like this movie specifically i don't have an attachment to all of that like we've talked we're talking about 2003 which we did a mini series of yes we're finally finally getting it uh getting the uh the gumption to return to 2003 we have to go back we said and well and this was this was a close runner up to the listeners choice yes for uh that mini series too so

we're finally getting around to this one um after some time of letting 2003 sit aside. But, like, I mentioned that because there was probably other movies from 2003 that I felt that more strongly, though I loved this movie at the time. Yeah. Yeah. It's, um, to me, I feel like I was able to track this one from the beginning because it was such a big deal at Sundance and as much as things are big deals at Sundance.

Um, it was a big success there. won three prizes at the 2003 Sundance Film Festival. And because I was following all of this stuff at the time, I think I was also writing for this other little, like, whatever, writing for free for the site, where I was essentially just doing like movie news roundups, right? And one of the things was Sundance. So I just remember, like, the station agent was a movie that I knew about

from that sort of early stage. And it didn't end up opening in, any kind of, like, significant way in the States. I think it, like, played other festivals. I think it played TIF that year, that kind of thing. But it doesn't really open until December. So it's just, like, the whole year, there was this anticipation. And, of course, I'm in Buffalo at the time.

So opening limited for an indie in December means I'm still probably not seeing it until January at the earliest. So there's just years worth of anticipation of just like, I want to see this. People seem to really like it. And at the time... I knew who Tom McCarthy was because he was a character actor who was on Boston Public for a little while. I knew Patricia Clarkson because of far from heaven, far from heaven. And also I had seen high art by this point. So both of those things. And then the only other person who really knew was Michelle Williams, who at this point is still Dawson's Creek's Michelle Williams, even though she had been in Dick and H2O and these things.

but by far my biggest imprint for Michelle Williams was Dawson's Creek. So Peter Dinklage was new to me, Bobby Kondavalli was new to me, but all the reviews about it were really like selling me on it. It really sounded very cool. And even though I looked back and I watched the trailer, I don't know if you did this before we recorded, it's a really bad trailer. It's a very sort of like the last gasps of kind of cheesy chipper voiceover trailer for movies like this. I mean, that's what my concept of, like, this brand of independent movie is until, like, maybe 2010. Oh, interesting. Like, that's what the kind of trailer that all this type of, like, low-key movie got you.

Where it's just like, he loves trains. She's a wacky artist. Like, that kind of thing. I was just like, oh, my God. He has a hot dog van. Well, and the other thing I was thinking of while I was watching this was so many Indians. of the time were like this, where it was like socially isolated person by either circumstance or choice.

Or tragedy. Right. Well, there's two sort of, this movie sort of occupies two lanes. But one of them is the socially isolated person, for whatever reason, is forced by some incident to sort of reenter the world and interact with people. usually against his wishes. And then that person sort of like slowly learns how to, you know, connect to people and that's, you know, that kind of thing. Often in a small town, often amid, you know, quirky people or whatever. And the other lane that I thought this was was just like

three broken people who find, you know, each other. And both of those things, this sound like it would be like the worst and yet it's it's the absolute best case scenario for both of those things but i was just like there were so many indies like this at the time i was thinking of like ghost world is kind of like that from the steve bishemi character perspective right where you know he's this you know he doesn't really want to you know talk to people and i thought american splendor which was another big hit at sundance this year is sort of like that um and And I don't know. I just feel like there's a bigillion other examples in my head that I can't quite think of.

But, like, that was the trend back then. That was the vibe. I want to talk about Sundance of this year, maybe even before we get to the plot description, just to sort of, like, set the stage. This is such a huge Sundance year in terms of, like, things that... Thank you. Not just... Well, okay, so Sundance, like, this is actually...

After the time of Sundance already having some type of Oscar thing, I feel like the major one where it like changes to what it is now where things are even brought to Sundance, hopefully with that type of long-term projection, is Little Miss Sunshine. But like it had happened before. And like certainly things had broken through the consciousness, obviously. Yes.

By 2003 that premiered at Sundance. However, like, this is a huge year for like movies that would either be contenders or like would have. like good box office or like permeating critical success in like the wider conscious than just like the independent film scene. Yeah, it's station agent, as I said, won three prizes that year it won the audience award for dramatic filmmaking. It won the Waldo Salt Screenwriting Award for Tom McCarthy. And then Patricia Clarkson won a special jury prize for acting for this and Pieces of April and all the Real Girls,

which were like her god tier indie trifecta that year, where it was just like, it's, and when she ended up winning Critics Prizes later this year, which she did win a few, or was runner up for a few also, it was the three of them together. And I think that was part of the reason why we end up with the Oscar nomination for Pieces of April instead of what it should have been for,

which is the station agent. And that also had like category confusion, we'll get into later on. But I think it was like, it was a blessing and a curse. It was a blessing because, like, she was such a story that year at Sundance. Oh, my God, she's in three of these movies. She's great in all three of them. And, you know, Patricia Clark's in Indie Queen, 2003.

But then also... And it had already been primed the year before because she'd won some major critic prizes for far from heaven as well. And then, yes. And then sort of is disappeared when it comes to the... the Golden Globe Oscar portion of that year, which was Erksum, I think, for other people. But other movies at Sundance this year, the Grand Jury Prize for Dramatic Filmmaking was American Splendor, which is another one that was in the awards conversation for a lot of this year. Hope Davis, I think, was probably sixth, seventh, eighth in that, probably in the voting that year for supporting actress, I would imagine.

She was another one who had kind of internal competition, with herself from other movies, and wasn't Secret Lives as Dentists also this year? Or am I making that up? Yes, and I think there maybe was one more. And then some things she got a lead prize for something that combined all of her roles together. The directing award that year went to Catherine Hardwick for 13. 13 was a huge Sundance breakthrough this year. There was the whole story about, like, Nikki Reid is 14, and she co-wrote this,

And then Evan Rachel Wood, who's on once and again, sort of this like breakthrough and, you know, dangerous teens and whatever, Holly Hunter, obviously, when it gets the Oscar nomination for that. And then capturing the Friedman's was the big documentary at Sundance that year, which also was like a documentary that, like, people talked about at a time when, like, I feel like we're a little more used to docs getting a lot of ink and a lot of conversation, both be mostly because there's more ink and more conversation to. be had nowadays. But at that time... And there's more avenues for people to see nonfiction filmmaking as well. But capturing the Friedman's was a big deal. In 2003, it's fighting for screens.

Yes. But like capturing the Freedman's also definitely permeated the consciousness. Yeah. I'm trying to see if I can find a list of everything. Okay, yeah, IMDB, I think, has everything that at least competed for the jury prizes.

and see if there's anything else. Die Mommy, Die was that year. Oh, my God, Camp was that year at Sundance. Camp was that year. My beloved camp. The cooler, which got Alec Baldwin. His nomination, Maria Bello was probably also very, very close to a nomination. Yes, I think that's right. Maria Bello, who at that point... United States of Leeland, an forgotten early Ryan Gosling is going to be a movie star one day movie. And I'm pretty sure Michelle Williams was also in that. early pre-blue valentine Ryan Gosser, no, yes, yes, right? Ryan Gosling, Michelle Williams, both in the United States

with Leeland, both in Blue Valentine's. Whale Rider was at this Sundance. Wow, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. There was a ton of stuff. All the Real Girls was also, like, that was David Gordon Green. That was kind of a big, sort of like Zoe Dishinelle breakthrough, I want to say, maybe. We knew who she was from Almost Famous,

but that was kind of a level up for Zoe Dichannel. It's funny that pieces of April also being at this one, so like Katie Holmes and Michelle Williams were both rep in the creek at Sundance that year. I'm just sort of scrolling through on IMDB and seeing if there's anything else

that I am missing. But like it was a definitely, it was a Sundance that got a lot of attention for a lot of indie filmmakers who would end up, you know, going on to or continuing to do big things, and it ended up being really represented at the Oscars in a lot of categories, partly because, as we've talked about endlessly in our 2003 episodes, a lot of the big things didn't hit for Oscar Buzz that year.

But Station Agent definitely emerges as like one of the top two or three sort of headliner movies of that Sundance Film Festival. So there was among film nerd indie people like I was at the time. It was hugely anticipated. That was probably going into that fall, if you would ask me, like, what are the big movies really anticipating? I'd be like, well, the Lord of the Rings and the station agent. Those are the twin pillars of what I'm super looking for.

Part of this, though, too, is that this is like the height of Miramax and Miramax bought the station agent out of Sundance. It was their big Sundance by. Yes. And Miramax, this is a real funny year for me. Miramax, they're coming off of this just spectacularly successful year in 2002, where they win for Chicago, and then they've got Gangs of New York as a Best Picture nominee, and they've got their piece of The Hours, which is also a Best Picture nominee. And then we're going

into 2003, and unbeknownst to anybody, including I'm going to say most of the people at Miramax, they have one of their big Oscar successes already taken care of which is the City of God which was a 2002 foreign language film contender and then all of a sudden nobody talks about it for like a year and then here we are one year later Sigourney Weavers

they're announcing some nominations for City of God and Best Director and Best Screenplay too did it get I forget if it got a screenplay one. It got a lot of the craft categories. I think it had like three or four. Three or four nominations total. Yes.

Director, cinematography, editing, writing. Yeah. So four Academy Award nominations for City of God, a film that everybody had forgotten about. Some pretty idiosyncratic branches of the Academy, too,

that, like, the director's branch is not very large. So you campaigned to a small group of people who something might be their taste, and you can get an odd nomination like that. Right. And it paid off in multiple categories for this movie. Yes. Miramax's big guns that year were we've talked about it plenty of times. We've talked about Cold Mountain so many times on this podcast. I feel like if you would ask somebody who's been listening to us for a very long time, they'd definitely be like, oh, yeah, they've done a Cold Mountain episode because we've talked about it.

Except we can't do a Cold Mountain episode. But that was their big contender But they had a lot of smaller contenders too I feel like I remember so many of these Down to like the Magdalene sisters I'm just like oh yeah that was a thing Because we're the weirdos that would hound the like Year long run up for the Miramax Awards site

Yes absolutely So Kill Bill Volume 1 was a big big thing for them that year And that even had awards The offshoots because like Uma got the Golden Globe nomination and there were a lot of people who were pushing for her to get a nomination for that. They had The Human Stain, famous disaster covered by us here, The Human Stain. Oh, my God, they did the Battle of Shaker Heights, the Project Greenlight Season 2 movie. The Battle of Shaker Heights starring Shil above.

Was that Season 2 Project Greenlight or Season 1? No, season 1 was the baseball one, remember? No, but that sounds exactly like the right thing for me to say to anything from Project Greenlight. Yeah, season two Project Greenlight was, as I think the better season, but it's the one where they did the screenwriting contest and the directing contest. So they picked the script, and I can't remember, as I can probably just click on this and look at it. Eric Abini, Eric Abini wrote the screenplay for Shaker Heights. And then they selected the team of directors from,

the from their like parallel competition and then the big thing there was casting the main lead and I remember the I think Miramax was really pushing for Emil Hirsch and the filmmakers wanted Shia LaBuff which I think is an interesting parallel parallel pass I know I know right interesting very interesting as with everything on Project Greenlight you watch that and part of you is so fascinated and part of you is just like burn this entire industry down. They also had Stephen Frears' Dirty Pretty Things that year.

They had Oh, God. The Barbarian Invasions, which actually got a foreign language film nomination and did really well. So, yeah, a lot, a lot, a lot of competition. Even though I would say, in terms of their priorities that year,

Station Age, it's probably top five in their priorities. But, like, that's a lot of competing interests to go around. We'll get into just kind of the scatteredness of Miramax that year and also the campaign for this one. Yeah, but first I'm going to make you describe the plot of the station agent, which I don't think is going to be too hard.

It's, you know, a decently simple story. But I don't know. I don't want to jinx you ahead of time. So we are talking on this fine day about the station agent, written and directed by Tom McCarthy, his debut film, which, a heck of a debut, starring Peter Dinklage, Bobby Conavale, Patricia Clarkson, Michelle Williams, Raven Goodwin,

adorable Raven Goodwin, we'll get into it. Also, I don't think I wrote this down, but John Slattery is in this. It's our third John Slattery film. Lynn Cohen shows up for a couple scenes. Richard Kine shows up for a scene. The icon, Lynn Cohen. May she rest in peace. Yep. Paul Benjamin,

the late Paul Benjamin, is in a couple early scenes as Peter Dinklage's friend who dies very early on in this movie. But that is plot, and I don't want to step on your toes. this premiered January 26th, 2003 at the Sundance Film Festival, and then opened in theaters limited on December 5th, 2003. Chris, I'm going to retrieve my little timer. Give me a second. I'm going to put on my good luck bucket hat, and we'll see how it goes. All right. I am ready when you are. Are you ready? I am. And go. Okay, Peter Dinklage stars as Finn. He is a train enthusiast. He inherits a train station in rural New Jersey after his only friend and

I guess business partner dies and leaves it to him. Quickly, he meets Joe, who runs his dad's like a food truck, basically, that they only have hot dogs, coffee, and muffins. That's my entire diet. Also, he meets Olivia, who's a painter who's grieving the death of her son. She almost runs him off. She almost hits him with her car twice. They quickly become this like kind of a small rag-tag group of friends, much to Finn's consternation. He is a very introverted person. Anyway, they kind of splinter off because Finn doesn't like people because they are bad to him. And Olivia is still grieving her child.

But then they all reconcile after everybody ends up getting drunk and Olivia has a suicide attempt. And time. Very good. It's a very short move. it's 90 minutes it's more about like the vibe it's such a vibe movie it's which isn't to say that like it doesn't follow along a pretty linear you know plot but yeah this is why i think tom mccarthy is a good director though because it is pretty like this movie could just as easily be annoying and cheap as it is yes yes really good like it is um because like it's pretty thin you know just by the concept exactly what the story be are going to be you know that they're going to be friends you know that eventually finn is going to splinter off because like he's because the world is bad to him yeah yeah like everybody's bad to him because everybody augles him and like treats him poorly because of his size um and like

Olivia is kind of the mystery through the whole thing because you don't know the full details turns out that, like, her husband had left her and is having another baby with someone else. And, like, that's her whole, like, internal trauma that, like, even though she's, you know, one of the more outspoken in this small group, there's, like, she still doesn't reveal all of her truth, whatever. Yes. And then there's other small things, like the Michelle Williams character, who's a librarian, that, like, becomes this, like, love relationship for Finn. You mentioned Raven Goodwin, who is this younger girl in town who also likes trains and, like, makes Finn become less prickly, I guess. Raven Goodwin, who was, like, having a bomb two years where, like, in 2002, she's in lovely and amazing, gets to, you know, be in a Nicole Hollifson or movie with Catherine Keener and, you know, Brenda Bleffen and Emily Mortimer and whatnot. And then she's in this movie, which I also deeply adore.

And then the only other major role of note that I have for Raven Goodwin in my head is she was on the 30 Rock episode where Oprah was on, where Tina Faye gets high on the airplane and thinks her seatmate is Oprah. I'm going to call you back. I'm snitting next to Borpo. But it's actually this girl named Pam, and Raven Goodwin is Pam. And then the rest of the episode, she's this very sort of like Oprah Jr.-esque personality. She's very fun in that. So, yeah, it's, I was, as you were sort of describing the, the perils of what a movie like this could have been, I was like, that was kind of the Tom McCarthy magic trick for this sort of early stage of his career, where it was this, and then The Visitor in 2008, and then Win Win in 2011, and I think all of those movies were you're just like, oh, this could have turned out really badly. this could have been cloying or obvious all the way to his best picture win with Spotlight oh yeah totally but all of his movies are like really well liked they are straightforward concepts and they could just as easily push any of its story elements too hard and they're not half as good they're all really well balanced he's incredibly good with performances from his actors

He gets fantastic performances from his actors. But there's also just like a kernel of wonderful humanity in his movies that really just like is able to like get cultivated throughout this. Just like there's just like a warmth and a loveliness at the core of this movie and at the visitor and the win-win especially. And Spotlight is a lot more sort of like processing than that. But even that has these moments of that Rachel McAdams scene that everybody sort of. talks about with her and Michael Cyril Creighton which is so just like there's I think something

similar than that too or it's just like this like kernel of just like wonderful decency in there and it always feels like a backhanded compliment where you're just like there's decency in this film but like it's a rare thing. But it's not a backhanded compliment because it is pretty rare

to see something like this and it's like especially rare to see movies that get the balance of this type of thing right because like we don't I don't, like, I don't know about you. I am a little stretched thin on movies that are like, this is the end of the world. Yeah. This is like, I mean, like, and I can go for some heavy stuff, but like this, there's something to, and like, even describing what's good about Tom McCarthy movies sometimes makes it sound a little trite, but there's something to everyday people in whatever their circumstances is that he.

knows the exact level of, like, human drama that can also be very watchable, very interesting. Like, yeah. It's kind of, even, like, all of these characters, like, the Bobby Kanovali character could very easily be, like, the annoying, outspoken, over-extroverted person such as I am. The Bobby Kadawale character is kind of a miracle, and it's half credit to McCarthy and half credit to Kandavali himself. But it's a perfect depiction of somebody whose aggressive friendliness can be so threatening to a certain type of person, and I may be that type of person, where it's just like, if I'm not really looking for this, like, it can be just terrifying. It's just like, why are you so friendly? Why are you being so aggressively friendly? And yet, Kanavale plays it, never overplays it.

So he doesn't ever get to a point where you're just like, I wish this guy would go away. You like, you sympathize with Finn for being reticent to this person's friendliness. And yet, it's still charming and it's still the good-naturedness of it at the center of it really, like, prevents you from ever just being like, I wish he would shut up and go away. And I'm so much inclined towards wanting characters of this type to shut up and go away. And it just never happens with Connevelli because he's – and he's an actor who I like, but can sometimes overdo it for me. And he's perfect in this. He's absolutely perfect in this, I think. I mean, a lot of that speaks to, like, McCarthy's strengths of, like, regardless of the person that he's presenting us with,

We're always kind of curious to get to know more about them. Even, like, Lynn Cohen, who by the way is billed as Patty at the Good to Go. She is like a gas station attendant, right? Yeah, she's at the Minimart. Yeah. Patty at the Good to Go. Want to know more about her. Even though, like, she, like, full on objectifies Finn and, like, takes his picture.

Oh, yes. But, like, hate crime with an instimatic. So you're like, okay, what's that lady's, what's her story? Yes. I've never seen anybody hatecrime with an Instomatic before, and yet, there we were. This place is, this movie is really great with locations, I think. Like, that's a, like, the actual, like, location of this little patch of train station that Finn occupies in this movie is just, like, the look of it is amazing, the remoteness of it. And yet, like, the fact that it's so remote and then, like, right up to the edges of it comes.

Bobby Conavale, Joe, with his little food truck. And Patricia Clarkson's character's house on the water. It's just like this fascinating. I just wanted to spend so much time in these locations. And then you've got like the little, like, small town. I like also, by the way, that this town is Newfoundland, New Jersey, where it's just like, oh, and even like, even just in the name of it, it feels like something farther away than it is, right?

But like the little small town, like library, and Michelle Williams, I think is so wonderful in this movie in such a, like, small little role. And it just, it feels, we say like, you know, something feels lived in. But this does in a way that, like, I also want to live in it. Like, that's, that's... And it's not precious about its authenticity in the way that so many other movies like it, or at least on paper or like it. It's not quirky.

it's not silly it's not you know whatever like there's the there's a peeled paint aesthetic to it but it's not it doesn't overdo it i think you're totally right um to the point where like i think almost like it feels like it could be on paper towing a dangerous line with peter dinklitch's character because like is it going to itself like fetishize this little person and other him right and it doesn't though I do kind of feel like the movie was maybe treated like it was quirky because of it, and it was like the type of story that we hadn't seen before. So, like, I do think there was something to the reception that was a little othering. Right. And you wanted to be like...

Even at the time I caught. Yeah, you wanted to be like a movie about a dwarf isn't in and of itself quirky for that reason. Like, that doesn't make it quirky. It's still just like, it's a really rather, you know, sort of simply told story. I also, I'm such a sucker for movies where the end goal is friendship, is just like the fact that, like, these three people find each other and then just like, there are certainly romantic overtones in certain things. You get the sense that, like, Joe has a crush on, I keep forgetting Clarkson's character's name in this. Olivia. Olivia, yes.

Joe has a crush on Olivia. Olivia and Finn have the scene where, like, she kisses him. But it's very sort of just, like, it's sweet, and there's, there's ambiguity to it. And Olivia is not really looking for any of that. She's recovering from the end of her marriage and the death of a child and whatever. But, like, and then Finn and Michelle Williams definitely do have a romantic subplot, but that does feel like a subplot. And at the center, it's just like, it's just this friendship that does.

developed between these three people were like just the scenes of the three of them just hanging out at her house sitting on the deck and looking at the water or smoking cigarettes after watching the train movie that they made or just making dinner together that kind of a thing and i'm just like i'm a simple person y'all and like that is porn to me weirdly i was just like oh my god this is just like, and again, especially after a year like this, I'm just like, oh, my God, the absolute ecstatic, indulgent joy of just like being in a room with friends doing nothing. It's beautiful to me, just like it's, I just, I had such a time watching this again for like so many different reasons. I love this movie so much.

Let's delve into Patricia Clarkson for a second. I think of the, as I mentioned, of the main characters, of the main actors in this movie, she was the one who I had a previous relationship to. I didn't know Connovali at all. I don't think I had ever seen Peter Dinklage in anything. And he's another actor, interestingly. Like, for all of these years of Game of Thrones, where he was never my favorite performance on Game of Thrones. I could never get past

how bad that accent was. And nobody talked about it. And he kept winning Emmys. And I'm just like, but he sounds ridiculous. And but whatever. I'm well on the record as not being a Game of Thrones person. Right, right. But like, I go back and I watch this movie and I'm just like, he's so good in this. He's astoundingly good in this. But Clarkson's career, I think, is really fascinating because she had been around for a very long time. Her first sort of movie role of note, perhaps maybe her first feature film ever,

but like a first one of note, she plays Elliot Ness's wife in The Untouchables, which you wouldn't think like it would go back that far because she's such a, you know, early 2000s kind of a kind of a creature. But it's not, it's again, it's just like she's the wife sort of, you know, concerned, lying in bed waiting for Elliot Ness to come home in the Untouchables. She's in a dirty hairy movie called The Deadpool. She's in a Taylor Hackford movie called Everybody's All-American. I was about a college football player.

She's in Jumanji very briefly. I think she's... As the mom. She's the mom. Right. In Jumongy. Alan Parrish's mom. Yes.

She's in playing by heart a film I've still never seen, even though I'm fascinated by it. We've got to do it. See, this is why when Patty Clarkson had her, like, emergence, I knew her from these weird small roles like Alan Parrish's mom she is a we'll eventually do playing by heart when we really want to do a deep cut but like Dennis Quaid is going on these like basically acting challenges to different bars and like selling different like strangers on like a tragic backstory and she is one of them and she's fantastic she is um she's a bottle of white wine in that movie.

Oh my God. And then I also remembered her from the Green Mile. Yeah, the Green Mile. She's the, um, she's somebody's wife who is dying, right? And they bring Michael Clark Dunk into her and he heals her. Yes, the like prison, um, like whoever the head of the prison, she's his dying wife. Right. Right. And John Coffey heals her. She's James Cromwell's wife, I think, right? Sure. Yes. Um, and yes, and then John Coffey heals her. And that But I think the big one in terms of the prep for this role is in 1998, she's in Lisa Cholodenko's high art, which was a sort of a big indie movie, not in terms of the wider world or whatever. But I feel like that was a really big kind of splash for Cholodenko. It was a big comeback role for Ali Shidi.

Ali Shidi, very memorably, at least to me, wins the end. Independent Spirit Award that year for a female lead and then gives this just like really ecstatic speech where she's just like, as I recall it and I can't find it on YouTube, which is a crime. Like film independent, get your shit together and find that clip in your archive and put it up on your website already, please. Where in my memory, she's like maybe half drunk, but she's so thrilled and she's just like screaming about like what a great thing this is that she's, because like, sure, her career was kind of forgotten at that point.

And then, so Clarkson in that movie, the plot of high art is Rada Mitchell is this sort of just like naive, you know, ingenue in the art world, and she ends up getting, having this sort of like sexual awakening with her relationship with Ali Sheedy's character. And this was sort of when, even in Indies, just like a lesbian movie, was very sort of just like, oh, you know, very kind of. The original Herald, they're lesbians. Right, yeah, kind of. Paired with...

It's not the original, but one of them. Right. Pared with the sort of like the tail end of the heroin chic, Kate Moss's aesthetic in like fashion-y adjacent things. And Clarkson plays Ali Sheedy's German ex-girlfriend who's also a heroin addict in this. and she's just delicious in this. She's spiteful. She's a little mean.

She's really entertaining, though. You really kind of can't take your eyes off of her when she's on screen. And then so she ends up getting a nomination for the Spirit Award that year. And I think it's like a runner-up at a couple critics prizes that year even. And so I think that was then the thing that kind of launched her into the 2000s, where she ends up being just like everybody's casting her in Indies. She's in Joe Gould's Secret. She's in the Pledge.

She's in the safety of objects. Meanwhile, she's also having a major role on Frazier. Right. Right. She's one of his recurring girlfriends on Frazier. Yeah. That's a very good point. Top tier Frazier girlfriend.

Who are the top tier Frazier girlfriends? It's her, Laura Linney, and then, like, I guess, Lilith coming back every once in a while, right? Yeah, those are your, that's your top tier. Ex-wife, you know. Right. And then in 2002, as you mentioned, she's in Far From Heaven as the sort of acidic, neighbor, judgey. Every time Julianne Moore sort of transgresses in that movie, it feels like Patricia Clarkson is hovering on the periphery.

Well, she spends the movie judging a lot of other people, but also, it's a time. tough role because she's also fooling the audience into thinking there is a part of her that is progressive because like she's the one openly talking about sex and blah blah blah blah blah but then when she finds out about not even this affair but that julianne moore's character has been spotted with denis hayst's character that's when she shuts her out um so like she has to basically present a whole type of faux liberal Yes. It's a really, really great performance. Really brilliant performance. She ends up, what are the critics prizes she ends up winning for that? National Society, because she wins again this year. She won two years and around with National Society of Film Critics, and she won in New York for Far From Heaven. Wasn't that the year that everything for Far From Heaven won in New York? It wins film, director, everything but Julianne Moore. That's what it was. That was the kind of wild thing about the New York Film Critics Circle that year

was Far From Heaven Wins, film, director, supporting actress, supporting actor, and cinematography. And then Julianne Moore loses out to Diane Lane in Unfaithful. Yeah. Which is kind of wild and cool and interesting. And then, so Patricia Clark since 2003, we mentioned the three movies that were at Sundance, which is the station agent, all the real girls,

where she plays Paul Schneider's mother? Right, okay. I didn't want to unnecessarily age her in that movie. She still seems like very young to be playing his mother, but whatever. Paul Schneider's mother in that movie, I mostly remember her in a bunny costume in that movie, right? Doesn't she, like, do, like, there's something. I don't remember much of that movie.

It's a really sweet movie. I haven't seen it in a billion years. Oh, no, she works as a clown. Right. She cheers up children at the hospital, and so she dresses up as a clown, not a bunny, but a clown. I may be thinking of Bet Midler in Beaches dressing up as a bunny as a singing telegram person. You may be thinking of when Patricia Clarkson was in the house bunny, too. Right, right.

And also when she is Frank the bunny and Donnie Darko is also what I'm thinking of, yes. So, yes, the station agent, all the real girls, pieces of April, which we'll get to in a second. But also, that's the year that Dogville plays can. And comes out in the U.S. the year after, the year after. But worth noting that, like, that's still kind of asterisky part of her 2003. She, I think I've mentioned this probably before on this podcast, I find her so terrifying in Dogville. Like, of all the terrifying things in Dogville, Patricia Clarkson's fury at her Hummel figurines being damaged in Dogville scares the fucking shit out of me every single time. She's just, like, I can't imagine her turning on. me in that way and we talked a little bit about Dogville in the Von Trier episode but where are you on

that movie just in terms of I haven't seen it in a long time I've kind of avoided Lars von Trier movies for a minute aside from us doing melancholia for all the reasons you can hear in our melancholia episode but I'm eager

to revisit some of them that I haven't seen in a while at Dogville Yeah. And then, you know, I think Clarkson's career since 2003, since her Oscar nomination, she hasn't gotten another one, which is too bad. She's, but like, she keeps showing up in small roles and things and being awesome. I'm thinking of, like, even briefly in Vicki Christina Barcelona, she's fantastic. Obviously, something like Easy A. She freaking rules. She's a cave lady in Shutter Island, which, like, who doesn't want to be a cave lady? In Shutter Island and like a sad little dress in that film. Nobody talks about this movie, but she and everyone else in it is great in Iris Axe's married life. Oh, which I've still never seen. It's a really good Chris Cooper performance as well.

Yeah. I also need to catch up to Cairo Time, which is a performance that a lot of critics really loved her in. Yeah, that's the sort of other parallel track to, it's small roles in sort of like movies that people see, and then lead roles in movies that don't get seen very much. Like Cairo Time, like Elegie, like Learning to Drive, the other Isabel Coyce movie, Quachet, I don't know, that movie, October Gale. I'm thinking of a lot of movies that just sort of like played TIF and then nobody

ever really saw them again. And of course, memorably bonkers, memorably to me only because nobody ever saw it. out of blue at Tiff in 2018. If you guys want to watch a wild movie, watch out of blue. I'm pretty sure it's on Hulu right now. Jackie Weaver goes like full

crazy on a set of chicken wings in that movie. There's some real metaphors about stars also in that film. Patricia Clarkson stares into people's hands and says this is made of stars. Right. Yes.

Yeah, definitely worth watching for the Cuckubin Nana'sness of it all. I mean, she's another performer, too, that, like, after, we've talked about people like this, where after their Oscar nomination, they become, like, their big roles become TV ones. She also did six feet under and most famously recently, recently sharp objects where she is also terrifying and incredible.

Yep. Six feet under, she's recurring on that show. She's Francis Conroy's artsy sister. She's sort of, the through line for so much of that is like Francis Conroy resents her for being the kind of fun one, the sort of like Wild Child, and she's the one who Lauren Ambrose gravitates to because she's also sort of artistic and irresponsible and that kind of thing. I fucking loved her on Six Feet Under. I thought she was really amazing. She weirdly never won a guest actress Emmy for that show, even though she deserved many times over. She was also on, as I mentioned, before we started recording this House of Cards, because, of course, she was, like, that she's exactly the kind of... I think well past we were watching House of Cards was the thing. Oh, I mean, almost everything on House of Cards is well past when I was watching, because I only watched the first season. I think I watched the beginning of the second season when Kate Mara gets

shoved in front of a subway train, and then I was just like, well, that's... Not even that, like, she was the character for me, but... I need it back in my life of Vela Lovell and the Big Sick talking about X-Files saying, it's a bad show. that for it to talk about House of Cards. The level in that a film is so fucking fantastic. I, like, the number of actresses I love who got sort of

caught up in the House of Cards thing, I just need to sort of, like, list them out so everybody can, like, obviously everybody knows Robin Wright and whatever, and Kate Mara. But, like, best performance on House of Cards was Molly Parker. I was going to say, Molly Parker was on that show. Sakina Jaffrey, I love, was on that show.

Constance Zimmer, was. on that show. Rachel Brosnahan, Molly Parker, as you mentioned, Jane Atkinson. Neve Campbell. Elizabeth Marvel. Kim Dickens.

Nev Campbell. Patricia Clarkson. Diane Lane. Like, not an actress, but Cody Fern, who I love from the American Horror Story series. Just...

People forget even Mahershlaw Lee was on that show. Oh, yeah. Like, that was the seasons that I watched. He was definitely a big part of that show. of that show. Like, for a show that I very quickly kind of just tuned out of, and even in that first season when everybody flipped for it, I was just like, it's good, it's watchable, but I don't know, whatever, just like absolutely a vortex of actresses I love. But yeah, Clarkson's TV stuff ends up becoming a lot more, as you say, sort of prominent. I also think of her, she was only on

Parks and Recreation twice as Tammy won, the first ex-wife of Ron Swanson, of Nick Offerman's Ron Swanson. But just like, she was one of those casting things where they referred to that character so many times that you thought maybe she was going to be the Maris or the Vera of that show and just like never show up. And then she ends up showing up. And just the fact of her being played by Patricia Clarkson was funny. Like just the fact of like this is this person everybody is so afraid of for so many times. And it's just like, Like, oh, yeah, like, that tracks, that fully tracks. She was also Margaret White in the TV movie version of Carrie, the one with Angela Bettis as, as Carrie White. They tried to make Carrie again so many times. But, like, it was, like, it was just NBC, right? I don't even think it was cable. I think it was just like... I think it was TNT.

Oh, was it? Okay. Pretty sure. And, like, I don't think we've mentioned it. She's the primary villain in the Maze Runner movies, right? Oh, yeah. She scorched those trials, but good in the Maze Runner movies, yes. The two days of quarantine where I was like, you know what, I'm going to watch the Mace Runner movies. Why not? And then promptly didn't watch any Mace Runner movies.

Maybe I should get back into that. One of the biggest trends in actressing of the 2010s is amazing A-list God-tier actresses being cast as bureaucratic villains in dystopian movies where I feel like Patricia Clarkson in this and Kate Winslet in Divergent are the

one and one day. Julianne more in the Hunger Games also Divergent had Naomi Watts, Octavia Spencer someone else it's a lot of stuff well Divergent also had Ashley Judd but she was like the saintly mother in that so there was that but yeah so

this is still, the station agent, is still probably my favorite Patricia Clarkson performance in terms of the one I'm sort of most fond of. It is the one I think she should have won an Oscar for. I think she was the best that year. She gets nominated. You think she's a supporting performance. Yeah, I think it's borderline, but I think it's enough that I would...

I think Peter Dinklage is the lead of this movie and everybody else is a supporting character. is how I would say. Okay. Wow. Silent judgment and disagreement. You and the Screen Actors Guild can take it to court as far as I'm concerned. I mean, I definitely think she's probably a lead of this movie.

Okay. I also think the fact that she had been getting supporting prizes throughout the year for the multiple roles is also excuse enough for me to just put her in supporting. But regardless, it's an Oscar-worthy performance. But so let's get into the SAG Awards that year. She gets two nominations, one for the station agent in lead, one for Pieces of April in supporting. I guess it makes sense to me that Pieces of April is the one she gets the Oscar nomination for because that's the most solidly, non-ambiguously supporting one.

And it's also the flashiest, too. Like, at this point, I don't think any major industry group was going to probably even watch all the real girls. Right. Yes. Because that one was so small. Yes. But I think Pieces of April, like, that's a movie that a lot of people hate. And it does also have its, like, fans as just like a comfort movie where they watch it at Thanksgiving.

It's bad. very bad. I haven't watched it long enough to know or to really remember anything other than it looks like. Shit. Garbage. Because it's that early digital video style of filmmaking that it's just like I could have made that with a camcorder. It looks like shit. But it's also, it's a flashier role. She gets to like kind of. She has cancer. She has a wig. It's a very, she's not bad. It's not a bad performance. She gets to monologue, whereas the station agent is a much more subtle thing.

Yeah. On that level, yes, I get it. I still have trouble getting past the fact that the Oscar voters saw this terrible, ugly movie. And her performance is good, but not

that good, that I would watch that movie and be like, well, this movie is bad, but she's great. And it annoys me that clearly, like, the station agent isn't going to be, like, at the top maybe of your screener pile, but it had gotten so much attention throughout that year that I'm just like, it just infuriated me that they wouldn't just like put the station agent in. And like, they've fudged lead supporting stuff before. It's fine. Like, this is the year that they,

you know, well, they didn't actually. They almost, uh, this is why. SAG freaks me out is they get so, you know, uh, correct and exact about, you know, we're going to put Patricia Clarkson in lead. And then we're just going to put Keisha Castle Hughes and Whale

Ryder and Supporting because whatever. And it's just like, you dumbasses, like, she's the only lead character in that movie. Here's what I think. Here's what I think, because we've, obviously, we went on it at length about this, um, twice because we also did a Naomi Watts,

uh, mini series. Yes, we did. And we covered a 2003 movie before her. With La D'Irose. There's obviously room in that best actress year. I mean, a lot of people, I think, benchmarked a spot for Nicole Kidman and Cold Mountain

when she's like the least interesting performance in that movie. And that was also one of the other Miramax movies. However, like, it would be totally feasible to look back at this year and you're like, oh, Patricia Clark. Clarkson could have been a double nominee. It's possible. I don't understand Miramax not planting the flag in their campaign that Patricia Clarkson is a lead in this movie when she's also clearly a supporting character for pieces of April. Yeah.

More clearly and like, because that's the bigger performance, probably the one more likely to get nominated in supporting. But like, well, here's... You look at her performance. in the station agent against what she was up against in lead actress, which is a lot more, like, loud performances, for lack of a better word, and not to sound condescending. And she could have stood out there. Yeah. What's especially wild to me when I look at this SAG lineup is because Miramax was so big on Cold Mountain and so sort of aggressively pushing that as their major contender that season, the fact that at the SAG Award, Patricia Clarkson gets nominated

and Nicole Kinman doesn't. And then the station agent gets nominated in outstanding ensemble cast and Cold Mountain with its 8 billion actors, so many of whom have Oscar pedigrees, doesn't get nominated as in there

at all, is extra special, crazy, and like kind of amazing to me. I mean, it's kind of a sign that Miramax should have pushed the station agent harder than they were pushing their other movies. And also... And it's kind of surprising that they didn't because, like, they have this

year-long run-up of this being a beloved movie with like festival audiences and with critics that I guess I... That's just kind of a reminder because it feels like the obvious thing, the thing to, like, react to what people actually

care about. Yeah. Is to start pushing the station agent more. But, like, I think that's just a reminder. of how in the tank they were for Cold Mountain. Yeah. I also should mention that Dinklage got a best actor nomination at SAG instead of Jude Law. So truly, like, the station agent ate Cold Mountains lunch that year at SAG, and we stand. We stand a legend.

That legend is the station agent. But so while we're on the subject of SAG and the station agent being one of those great surprise ensemble cast nominations. that doesn't, unfortunately, go on to a Best Picture nomination. I created a little game for you. I want to do another round of Alter Egos, our beloved Alter Egos game, where I will give you the names of three characters from movies,

and then you will name me the film that all three of those actors were in together. And it was a SAG-nominated movie. All of the answers for this game, round will be SAG ensemble nominees that did not go on to Best Picture nominations. Okay. So, some of them

are easy, some of them are harder. We'll see how long it goes. If it takes us a while, I'll maybe lop some of these off. But the very first one is very easy, and I just want you to let me get all the names out. In general, let me get all the names out before you guess. I have a feeling

you're going to be very good at this one because it's a very set, a closed set of options. All right. To begin, your three characters are Foxy Cleopatra, Ricardo Tubbs, and Grizzabella the Glamor cat. That is Dreamgirls. Thank you. Walk us through it. Well, Foxy Cleopatra is obviously Beyonce in Gold member. Grizzabella is Jennifer Hudson and Cats.

What was the middle one? I knew it right away, so. Ricardo Tubbs? Ricardo Tubbs is, is that a Jamie Fox character and something? Yeah, Crocket and Tubbs of Miami Vice fame. Ah, yes. A movie I still have not seen. Despite the heterosexuals of the internet,

demanding that I do so. Demanding that you do so. Okay, next one. Henry Jekyll, John Connor, Lance Armstrong. Well, John Conner's a That is a Terminator movie Lance Armstrong, I'm just going to guess, is Ryan Gosling and first man.

Henry Jekyll, that's got to be So a Dr. Jekyll, Mr. Hyde movie. I was thinking of Victor Frankenstein for a second with Daniel Radcliffe. I will say, rethink Lance Armstrong for a second. Oh, okay, so it's not

Gosling. What's another movie with Lance Armstrong? Who do you think Lance Armstrong is? Oh, is that not the person that he played in First Man? No, that's Neil Armstrong. Never mind.

That's great. I know American history and sports. Lance Armstrong Thank you listeners for laughing at me. That's Ben Foster. Yes. Is it 310 to Yuma?

It is. Yes, because Russell Crow is in the mummy as Henry Jekyll. Yep. Yep. Want to take a stab at who John Connor is? Christian Bale. Yes, Terminator Salvation. In, yeah, that horrible movie.

Yes, exactly. All right, very good. Very well worked out. next one mickey ward margaret white and bandit bandit uh well margaret white i know that um that's that's that's uh that's the mother from carrie so it's either uh julian more patricia clarkson or um oh fuck why is her name escaping me um from the original care right pipe Lori. It's not, I will... Piper. I knew... Sorry. But yes. Some of these will be television, so there is a chance that this could

be Patricia Clarkson. Oh, okay. So Bandit is Smokey and the Bandit. Right. So you're 50-50 as to who it is. Is this boogie nights? It is. And that is Bert Reynolds. There we are. All right. So... The first one's got to be Mark Wahlberg.

Yes. What is... In what movie does Mark Wahlberg place somebody named Mickey Ward. Oh, duh, the fighter. The fighter. Yes, all right. Well done. Well done. All right.

Next one. Abraham Van Helsing, Pamela Landy, and John McCain. Okay, so John McCain is Christian Bale or Richard Dreyfus. You're thinking of the wrong person again. God damn it. You're getting your bald-headed Republicans mixed up. It's Ed Harris. It's Ed Harris.

Yes. Listen, I am scrubbing all names of Republicans out of my brain this year. I don't want to know who. We're forgetting Republicans in 2021. I know. I don't, listen, famous men of history, I don't know. But I do know who Margaret White is. Yes, you do.

What was the first name again? Abraham Van Helsing. Oh, that is Anthony Hopkins. Is this Nixon? It's Nixon. Yes. Abraham Van Helsing, Anthony Hopkins, in uh brahm stoker's dracula john mccane one of the finest films ever made ed harris in game

change any idea who pamela landy is uh pamela landy is joan allen in the contender no you're very close it's joan allen in the born movies ah all right next one lindy chamberlain sibyl stone and arnie grape uh sybil stone is diane keaton and the family stone What was the first name again? Lindy Chamberlain. Lindy Chamberlain. Boy. Is this Marvin's room?

Yes. Do you want to say why? Because that's the only thing I can think of with Diane Keaton in an ensemble. See, I knew you would be able to guess some of these just from one person. Okay. Lindy Chamberlain is a real person, a very infamous. That is Dingoate My Baby. Yes, it is. It's a cry in the dark.

Meryl Streep. That thing goes from my baby! And then Arnie Grape? That is What's Eating Gilbert Grape? Yes, Leonardo DiCaprio and What's Eating Gilbert Grape? Okay. Next one.

I think this one will be easy for you. Barbara Minerva, Jackie Q and Shannon Mullins. Oh, I don't know if this is going to be easy for me. Barbara, what? Minerva. Okay.

Um, Barbara Bonerva, Shirley Q. Jackie Q. Jackie Q. That's got to be like an Edgar Wright movie or something. Not Edgar Wright. But like that, right? Like, it's an action movie. No. Or it's something violent that boys like.

No. Well... Damn. No. I'm not. going to say no, definitely not violent, and this character is definitely not pitched to boys. I'm trying to give you a clue. Barbara Minerva. Yeah, think recent. Barbara Minerva is a recent character, or this movie is recent?

No, this character. Barbara Minerva is recent. Is that like an Ocean's Eight character? More recent. even more recent. Oh, yeah. Real recent. Oh, like 2020?

Yeah. And like, like recent to us in 2020. Oh, so it's a late year release. Almost as late as you could get. So like Christmas. Right. Christmas movies were...

Oh, okay. So this is... Wait, it can't be Wonder Woman. Oh, it's bridesmaids. It is. Walk us through it. Barbara Minerva is Kristen Whig in the Wonder Woman, 1984. Wonder Woman Monkey Paw.

Yes, yes, yes. Yes. Yes. Wonder Woman of the vanities. Yeah. Do you remember Jackie Q now? You want to take a stab at Jackie Q? Is that whip it?

No. Rose Byrne in, get him to the Greek. Oh, yeah, she sings about her butthole. She sure does. And then Shannon Mullins, any idea now? Shannon Mullins? No idea. That is Melissa McCarthy and my beloved The Heat.

All right. Ah. Next one. Richard Nixon, Julie Gianni, and Nell Harper Lee. Now, Harper Lee is either Catherine Keener or Sandra Bullock, I'm going to guess that it's Catherine Keener and say, Into the Wild. No, not Into the Wild. Well, then the Richard Nixon are Anthony Hopkins. Leo Schreiber.

Mm-hmm. I can't think of either of them starring with those people. Leif Schreiber, I can't think of being, like, the first person you would pull. Well, unless it's, it can't be the butler. Wait, let's re-examine your, your logic on that. Why, Leop Schreiber? Why Leop Schreiber? Right.

What movie am I, oh, is it the Manchurian candidate? No, no. Who does Leav Schreiber play in The Butler? He plays Richard Nixon. No, he plays Lyndon Johnson. Never mind. The Richard Nixon in that movie is... Oh, John Cusack.

Yes. So John Cusack and either Catherine Keener or Sandra Bullock. Right. And then your other character is Julie Gianni. I don't know if that's going to help me. I don't know if I'll get there with that. So John Cusack and one of those two. What other movies was he in that would have had a SAG ensemble nomination?

Huh. It's not a movie with like a 20-person ensemble. It's like, don't think of that. But it's definitely a movie that, like, didn't miss best people. picture by too much, I don't think. Certainly, there were indicators that it was close. Catherine Keener or Sandra Bullock with John Cusack.

Right. I know that this is going to... Oh, it's being John Malkovich. Yes, correct. Duh. Correct. Julie Gianni is Cameron Diaz in Vanilla Sky. Ah, yes. All right. Next one. Your characters are Connie, Aidan Shaw, and Phyllis Stein. Philistine is Andrea Martin. Connie is

Andrea Martin in Hedwig. Connie is Neovartalus in the great Connie and Carla. It's my big fat Greek wedding. It's my big fat Greek wedding. Aiden Shaw is of course the loathsome Aiden from Sex and the City, one of the worst boyfriends ever.

John Corbett. Yes. Okay. Good one. You got that one as fast as I thought you would. Okay, very good. Nelson Mandela Catherine Johnson and Pensatucky Pensatucky is Tamron Man Taryn Manning

Taryn Manning, sorry And the first one is Terrence Howard This is Hustle and Flow Wow! I thought I was going to fool you on the Nelson Mandela Because He played Nelson Mandela Mandela in the Jennifer Hudson

Winnie Mandela movie. Very good. Yes. And then who is Catherine Johnson? Catherine Johnson is Taraji in Hidden Figures. Very good. Yes. Okay. Two more. Cleve Jones, Joan Jett, and Deep Throat. This is

Into the Wild because Cleve Jones is Emil Hirsch in Milk. Yes. Who is Joan Jett? Joan Jett is Kristen Stewart in the Runaways. And the Runaways. And then Deep Throat? Is that Hal Holbrook?

In All the President's Men? Yes, Hal Holbrook played Deep Throat in All the President's Men. Okay, last one. John Proctor, Lady Macbeth, and Suzanne Stone. This is nine, because John Proctor is Daniel Day Lewis for the Crucible. Lady Macbeth is Marianne Cotillard. And Suzanne Stone is Nicole Kidman in to die for him. Very good. Well done. Well played. Good game, Chris.

All right. Back to the station agent. What else have we not talked about? We talked about Sundance. We talked about SAG. We talked about Patty. I mean, we kind of talked about Tom McCarthy and talking about what we like about the movie, too. I mean, I will say people doubted Spotlight. This is me just bragging for a minute. People doubted Spotlight, like chances. that year, and I felt like I was the one of maybe three people predicting it. And when the Oscar open, Oscar ceremony opened with Spotlight winning its original screenplay category, I was like, okay, cool, we're going to book in the ceremony with this. Got it. You nailed it. I will say, I was fiercely loyal to, I thought Spotlight was going to win Best Picture

throughout most of that season. When I saw it in Toronto, I'm just like, this has the stuff. when the Oscar nominations came out, and it was like, what did it get, like, seven nominations or something like that? I was like, this is exactly the way it's been going these days, where, you know, gravity gets the most nominations, and then, you know, something smaller, 12 years of slave ends up winning best picture or like, I just felt like this is of the type of the way things are going, and I was just also the way the preferential ballot seems to shake out. Like, it goes to the movie that, like, is going to leave the fewest number of people with complaints. Yes. And then as it got... Which isn't to, like, disregard what is great about Spotlight, but...

Yeah. But as it got closer and closer to the Oscars, I was like, I think my pessimist brain kind of interfered with me. And I was just like, ugh. Like, In Uriot won the Golden Globe and the Revenant won the whatever. And I knew the gold. And he knew in my head, I was just like, don't think of the Golden Globes. They matter less and less. And then I think by the time it had gotten to Oscar Day, I was like,

it's going to be the fucking revenant. Like, guys, just like, give up. Just like, it's going to be the revenant, whatever. Even though Spotlight had won the SAG ensemble and gave that like very sort of like, this is what batters now speech about the reporters in Spotlight and what they did. And that is like the perfect tone to set. And even then, I was like, That's going to be fucking stupid, the Revenant.

And up until, and then he won best director when I thought, like, if George Miller wins best director for Mad Max, then Spotlight's going to win Best Picture. And that didn't happen. And I was so pleasantly surprised when Morgan Freeman read Spotlight as Best Picture that year. And so I will say, I lost my nerve, and you did not. And kudos to you for that. Everybody liked that movie. It's a great movie.

Back to the Craft of the Revenant, did not like that movie. It's a great movie. Spotlight is a great movie. Okay. Flipping through my notes. Bucket hat, very first note. I said Peter Dinklage plays his bemusement so well. Just his sort of just like his semi, his just like puzzlement, but also like revulsion at just like other people as a general category.

I forgot how great Peter Dinklage is in this movie. Like, to your point of his bemusement with other people, like, the way that we talk about, like, this movie could easily be a cliche, so can this character who is like, you know. A crank, a grump. Yeah, like, not into other people and for, like, a valid reason for the way that he's treated and met by other people. But, like, it could be such a cliche, and he's so interesting to watch the whole time in a way that feels like he's actively navigating. Yes, his emotions, his thought processes rather than just being a shutdown curmudgeon, you know?

Yep. I wrote down Bobby Connovali's aggressive friendliness, but also he's never been, to me, cuter in a movie than in this film. I think he's so adorable in this movie. What else? What else? Michelle Williams. Oh, I think this might have been the first time I had ever seen Michelle Williams in something

where I was like, oh, like, she wants to be like a for real actress. Because I think, like, for as good as Dick is, and for, obviously, we hold reverence for Halloween H2O. But those genres both seemed like, oh, these are things that, like, TV actress would do, right? To, you know, she's in a comedy. People forget the kind of, like, backhanded surprise that was met with her Brokeback Mountain performance. I know. That people were like, oh, I guess she's a real actress.

And it's like, fuck off. I mean, just because she's on a teenage soap does not mean... Also, she was always my favorite actress on Dawson's Creek. She was... Absolutely. Busy Phillips, too, but Busy Phillips comes in late on that show. Busy Phillips comes in maybe like... Yes.

But, like, all throughout the entirety of Dawson's Creek, I was always, like, Jen was my girl, and I always was just like, Michelle Williams is so good on this show. And she's playing the character that we're not, quote, unquote, supposed to, like, I remember there was a thing on MTV. It might have even been like MTV Spring Break or whatever, where they had the cast of Dawson's Creek on right after the first season. And so it's just like the phenomenon is high or whatever. And it was the four of them sort of being interviewed.

And she says, Michelle says at one point, she's just like talking to the audience and she's like, I know you guys hate me. I know, listen, I hear it all the time. I know you guys hate me. She's just like, just like go with it. and, you know, try to get on board with Jen, but she's just like, I know that everybody wants Dawson and Joey to be together, and I know you guys hate me. And I think as that show went along,

and the fan base sort of became more and more frustrated with Dawson and became, like, Joey and Pacey shippers or whatever. But, like, even while that was the focus of the fan base, I think I was still sort of like, whatever, it makes me sound like I was alt, like an Alts Dawson's Creek fan, whatever, but just like, I don't know, I was gay and I love Jen. Like, I feel like that's a thing that happened with most people. I was definitely gay, and I was like, why do we need to pit women against each other? I like both of them. Dawson is terrible.

Dawson is terrible. Indies from 2002 to 2006 being a mood, I wrote down. Oh, I wrote down, Peter Dinklage in this movie was Messenger Bag inspo for me at the time, which is true. I feel like the a Otts were when the Messenger bag made, you know, a stylistic comeback. Hell, yeah, I still have. one so yeah um same also the girl at the end in the classroom who says what about blimps i fucking love her she's so like what about blips and it comes at the perfect time where like the other kid was so mean about like his height or whatever um asking him questions and then this

little girl who you expect is also going to be mean because the face on her is just like classic mean sixth grader and it's just like oh god um and then she's just like turns out to be very curious about transportation, but even still in that mean little sixth grade girl way, where she just says, what about blips? But he's so happy about it. Indeed. Anyway. All right.

That whole school scene is like obviously there for like the reason of like showing his progression of putting himself out there, but it is very stressful to me because kids are fucking assholes. So like I didn't want them to be mean to Finn. Is there any part of you? This will be the last thing. And I mean, go into the MTV game. Is there any.

part of you that watched this movie and even just entertained the thought of, oh, I could live in a little abandoned train station. Like, I could live, I could, you know, try and, like, gut an old train car. If I have a food truck outside of my little train station home that serves me coffee, hot dogs, and muffins, absolutely. Okay. Because then you wouldn't have to, like, you wouldn't have to, like, forage. It does look like it would be very cold in the winter. And, like, New Jersey gets cold winters, y'all like yeah it's right off of a lake or some body of water yeah it's going to get cold in the winter so i'm happy that we saw him in the summertime when it was at least a fine but it does not look like it when it was jersey terribly well insulated you know yes i'd also say since we

talked about sundance this episode we should also hype if it's not out there yet it should be out soon we're going to be uh doing a little bonus recap of sundance this year yeah we are yep so look forward to that if it's not already out depending on when the this episode hits. Yes, exactly. Yeah, it should be fun. Okay. Would we like to transition to the IMDB game? Would we like to change tracks, ah, into the IMD game? Oh, do you have a transfer ticket for us to be able to do the IMDB game? Yes, I'm in business class, so please. Ah, okay, okay. Well, then I should mention every week we end our episodes with the IMDB game, where we challenge each other with an actor or actress to try to guess the top four titles that IMDB says they are most

known for. If any of those titles are television or voiceover work, we'll mention that up front. After two wrong guesses, we get the remaining titles release years as a clue. If that's not enough, it just becomes a free-for-all of hints. Yeah, man. The IMDB game. All right, why don't you give to me first? Oh, you have a plan, I'm guessing. Oh, no, I'm just remembering. Actually, for the first, for the rare time, I remember the order we went in last time. So I'm like, Well, we'll do the opposite this time. Normally, my memory lasts about a day and a half, and that's a killer for our purposes here.

Okay. Sure, sure, sure, sure. Okay, fine. Then I went down the Patricia Clarkson route, went with one of her other 2003 co-stars playing, We Think Her Son in All the Real Girls. I have for you, Mr. Paul Schneider. I'm excited for the gay remake of this called All the Real Gourles.

all the real guarls all the real squirrels all the real squirrels that should be a drag race rusical all the real squirrels and they and they do the plot

of all the real girls and the audience the queens fight over who gets to be Patricia Clarks and meanwhile the Zoe Deschanel is the one that's like

the actually good role that they win the challenge for exactly exactly all right so who are you giving me sorry Paul Schneider

Paul Schneider okay any television interesting actor any television no television okay is one of them all the real girls it is all the real girls all right yeah paul schneider a character actor who's in some stuff but i'm trying like it's trying to think of like the prominent ones he's also very handsome it's very handsome I mean, I love him in Bright Star. I don't know if enough people have seen that movie, even though it is perfect.

But I'm going to guess Bright Star. Bright Star, correct. Okay. He was like, if Bright Star had been more embraced or paid any attention to, he could have been nominated for that. He won. Yeah. L.A. Critics, I think. For Bright Star?

I'd have to look at my spreadsheet. Yeah. Wow. Yeah, look that up. Now that you've, like, made these phenomenal spreadsheets. I think these two are pretty quintessential. Paul Schneider is definitely in this movie remaining guesses. And you don't have any wrong guesses yet.

Okay. No, I lied. He won National Society of Film Critics for Bright Star, tied with Christoph Waltz. Good for them. All right. I ultimately think he's way too far down the cast list in the Family Stone, but I might have to burn a guess on that eventually if I want to get years, but I'm not there yet. I'm still no wrong guesses.

Same thing with the way we go, I feel like he's too far down, a very long cast list. Patricia Clarkson would have been good in a way we go. I like that movie. I love that movie. I know a lot of people hate it, but I love it. They're allowed to be wrong. They're allowed to be wrong. Okay.

I'm going to guess Lars and the Real Girl. Lars and the Real Girl, correct. You are on a great streak with Paul Schneider. You've had a couple really strong weeks at IMDB game. Thank you. All right. My problem is now the only other roles for Paul Schneider I can think of are parks and recreation and the newsroom.

So those are not. All right, I am just going to say, I'm going to guess, oh, but I don't want to burn. I really want to try and get this right now. All right, this is another one where he's probably like sixth or seventh down the line, but I'm going to say Elizabeth Town. Joe Reed, congratulations on your second perfect score in a row. Fuck yeah.

he's not that prominent in Elizabethan. You got Gary Seneas perfectly last week, right? Yeah, I think so. I think I did. Hell yeah. That's awesome. Hell yeah. All right.

You almost did it for Anne Hathaway. All right. Well, now I will ride this high throughout the rest of this, possibly hellish week. Fingers crossed, it's not. Fingers crossed, by the time you listen to this episode, my beloved Buffalo Bills will be in the Super Bowl. But I don't want to jinx it, so probably not.

Probably not. Probably won't happen. going to just keep fucking with you. I'm going to send you audio of goodbye horses. You're just so every time I say, talk about the bills, you send something silent of the Lamsey to me. Yes. All right. Ah, for you, I have gone, as I often do down the well of the director, Tom McCarthy. We sort of

mentioned this in passing, but his 2011 film Win Win Win. Is so good. And it's like you think you think you know, to the degree to which you're going to like or not like win-win. It's about high school wrestling, and he's a wrestling coach, and the teen is very sort of like, it's very odd person, just like a very strange person. But again, it's the Tom McCarthy magic, where it's just like, you think it's going to be the bad version of what this is? And it's like, no, it's just decent people, like, interacting with each other and really

interesting and kind of lovely ways. I think it's my favorite Tom McCarthy movie. I should watch it again. It's the one I've seen the least, probably. And I definitely owe it another watch. Maybe also, I should watch The Visitor again. Watching all the Tom McCarthy movies

is a great thing to do if you're bummed about the state of humanity because like everybody in those movies is so good. Okay. I haven't seen the cobbler, so let's just move that. So the most underrated performance in this most underrated movie is Amy Ryan playing

Paul Giamatti's wife. She's like... I think we've had this conversation. She's sensational. And it's so could have easily just been just like, oh, she's the wife. She, you know, chimes in every once in a while and whatever. But the movie really invites her in and allows her to be something. She has like a, like,

huge affinity for Bon Jovi in a way that I find so charming in that movie. But somehow or another, we've never done Amy Ryan for the IMDB game, which I think is crazy. so I'm going to have you do that now, Amy Ryan. Okay.

Is Win Win on there? It is. She's got to be like second or third build. She usually doesn't get the highest billing and stuff. Yep. Yep. I figured. Gone baby gone, obviously.

Yep. Her Oscar nomination, Gone Baby Gone. Very good. Um, I'm trying to think. She plays a lot of wives, unfortunately. Great actress. No. No TV, right?

Because she's done, like, the office, in treatment. Right, no television. Other stuff. Right, no television. What about Bridge of Spies? She's the wife in Bridge of Spies. Good guess, but no, not Bridge of Spies. Birdman?

She's one of my favorite performances in that movie? Yes, correct. Birdman is correct. Okay. She's his wife, right? Ex-wife, I believe. Ex-wife, right, right, right, because he's, yeah, yeah, yeah, yes. It's, like, totally could have been taken out of the movie,

but I think that movie is better because of her scenes. Yeah, I think that's right. It has been a long time since I saw Birdman. All right, so you are also three for three. So, let's see if you can do it. Let's see if you can pull it off. I'm trying to think, well, no, I already got a wrong answer. Oh, right, because you already got Spreege of Spies.

Sorry. Well, you still have three right answers. Can't take that away from you. She is secretly in Capote, but I think she's probably like 12th build, even though she's really good in it. So I don't think it's going to be that. I don't remember her in Capote. She plays Chris Cooper's wife. Oh.

She, like, is a powerhouse in all of the scenes that she has, just, like, is. like being a good hostess in their home. But her energy is really great. Okay, sorry not to interrupt you. Here's one that is not one of them, but I just saw You Can Count on Me recently, and I did not notice her in this movie, and apparently...

Yep, she is the mother in the first scene of You Can Count on Me. I totally missed that. Totally missed it. That's not going to be it, though. Oh, wait. Oh, she's their mother who dies in the car crash. Yes, she is. I must have just blocked that out, because I remember that scene, of course.

The only thing that's really jumping to me that I remember her in is Dan in Real Life. So I'm going to say Dan in Real Life. Unfortunately, no. Not Dan in Real Life. But it was that same year. It was 2007. Oh. Okay.

So this is also the same year of her Oscar nomination for Gone Baby Gone. Yeah, big year. Big year for her. have I seen this movie it's very possible it's some small thing that I never saw no you definitely saw it I'm pretty sure I'm almost positive you saw it was this movie not Oscar nominated it was not but it did it was sort of a a presence around that season hmm okay so oh um She is also in Before the Devil Knows You're Dead.

Yes, Sidney Lumetz, Before the Devil Knows Your Dead. She is Philip Seymour Hoffman's wife, and Tomey is the girlfriend. I think that's right. Tomé is definitely... She's somewhere in that. Tomey's definitely the one he ends up sleeping with in the movies. I mean, the movie opens with them talking. Yeah, and I think that's right.

I think that's, she's the mistress of that. Or maybe... because Ethan Hawk is the brother I forget Hold on, let me look All right, looking this up right now just so we can avoid

whatever Amy Ryan is someone named Martha so she clearly inspired a superhero in this Wikipedia is not telling me

Somebody, all right, somebody tweet us and tell us whose wife, Amy Ryan is in this movie. Yeah. Fascinating. My audio is clicking all over the place. We've got to finish this now before I guess my computer explodes or something. Okay. All right. That's our episode.

Chris, well done on the IMDB game. Good job. You as well, buddy. All right. Honestly, highest recommendation, go seek out the station agent somewhere. Even if you have to pay a rental for it, it is so worth it. It's such a good movie. I struggle with how familiar people are these days to a movie like The Station Agent,

which felt like such a prominent indie movie back then. But I'm just like, oh, right, it's almost 20 years old. Like, maybe. Yeah, 20 years ago, it was justice for the station agent. Right. And maybe now people, you know, the children need to know about the Station Agent. Go watch the Station Agent. It's wonderful.

All right. It's a lovely 89 minutes of your day. Exactly. right, that is our episode. If you want more of this had Oscar Buzz, you can check out the Tumblr at this hadoscarbuzz.tumler.com. You should also follow our Twitter account at Had underscore Oscar underscore Buzz. Chris, where can the listeners find you and your stuff? You can find me on Twitter saying thank God for model trains. Otherwise, they wouldn't have got the idea for the big train. At Krispy File. That's F-E-I-L. Also on letterboxed under the

same name. One of the greatest lines in movie history. I am on Twitter at Joe Reed. I am also on letterboxed as Joe Reed, Reed spelled R-E-I-D in both of those occasions. We would like to thank Kyle Cummings for his fantastic artwork, and Dave Gonzalez and Gavin Muvius for their technical guidance. Please remember to rate and review us on Apple Podcasts, Google Play, Stitcher,

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