This Had Oscar Buzz - 133 – The Other Boleyn Girl

Episode Date: February 22, 2021

Heavily anticipated by Oscar predictors in fall 2007, Justin Chadwick’s historical fiction The Other Boleyn Girl paired Natalie Portman and Scarlett Johnasson as their Oscar stars were rising. But when the film was rescheduled into early 2008, all signs pointed towards a disappointment that the film ultimately proved to be. With Eric Bana as King … Continue reading "133 – The Other Boleyn Girl"

Uh-oh, wrong house. No, the right house. No, I didn't get that! We want to talk to Marilynne Heck. with a woman's destiny. Our daughters are being traded like cattle for the advancement of men. Was determined by her father.

It's done. Tonight. Try to please him if you can. One sister followed the rules. I didn't betray you. You do know that. All I know is a man that didn't know who you were. I was with you in that room for half an hour

and came out besotted. The other defied them. And what would you know of great men? I'd no one if you were before me. Do you see one here? Looking, my lord. Ah, found one. I could give you the sun you desire.

We're sisters, and therefore born to be rivals. Hello and welcome to the This Had Oscar Buzz podcast, the only podcast that knows full well that there are no lighthouses in Nebraska. Every week on This Had Oscar Buzz we'll be talking about a different movie that once upon a time had lofty Academy Award aspirations, but for some reason or another, it all went wrong. The Oscar hopes to do it. died, and we are here to perform the autopsy. I'm your host, Joe Reed. I'm here, as always, with my shoulder-patted king. Chris File.

Hello, Chris. Hello, Joe. The shoulder pads in this movie. It's a lot. The shoulder pads in this movie, the way that this movie made me miss Broadway because I was only spending the entire movie wishing I was watching the musical six instead.

Okay, I knew we were going to talk about this. So, like, I, a lot of people that I know were able to see six on Broadway before everything shut down. That was sort of like the big thing of the moment on Broadway when everything shut down. I hadn't seen it yet. I probably would have, although I was in a very like,

I have no money in Broadway's expensive phase at that point where I was just like I didn't see anything in 2019, 2020. But I would have ended up seeing six. But now I didn't. And I'm also not a like listen to the cast recording before I see a show person. I've just never done that. Normally not either, but for this I was like,

well, we may never see it. Right. But so I'm completely outside of the six conversation and dialogue. And it's one of those things where it's just like for a while there, like every homosexual in my Twitter feed would be making like Anne of Cleave's

jokes. And I'm just like, I don't fucking know what you're talking about. And please stop. And so that's my, as I was watching this, I was just like, oh, my God. Like, if we get to talking about the other Berlin girl and, like, people are going to be tweeting at us with their, like, six in jokes. And I don't want to hear it. So, whatever.

Anyway. So what you're saying is you don't need their love. All you need is six. I don't know what that means. I don't know what that means. It's lyrics on the show. I don't know what the number six means. I don't get that.

I don't. I know, I know divorced, beheaded died. Divorced Beheaded survived. That's about my extent. Okay. I also know that there are like three Anne's and a Jane Seymour. That's about it. Not that Jane Seymour.

That's my joke. Yeah, absolutely. Cast that Jane Seymour when the show's been running on Broadway for like four or five years. Right. That's your stunt casting, is you cast real-life Jane Seymour as Jane Seymour, even though it's like fully whatever, a 60-year difference or something like that. Yeah. The other thing, and I'm going to look this up right now, I watched this on Amazon Prime via the Stars app, the Stars Channel.

I watched it on Hulu via the Stars Channel app. I love that option. What I found out, though, when I looked up the other Billing Girl, do you know there was an other Bolein Girl television movie in 2003? Yeah, like five years before this one. Starring your nemesis Natasha McElhone? Oh, I didn't look up the cat. She's not my nemesis. She's just

She was our nemesis in Ladies and Lavender. Yes, because how dare she? Yeah. She played Mary, and then Jody May played Anne Boleyn. Who else was in this, that we would know? Jared Harris played Henry the 8th. That's good casting for Henry the 8th, actually, T.D.H. I think that's pretty good. I'm trying to find other names in this cast that I recognize, and I don't.

But, yeah, had no idea. So this book was, like, a thing for, like, a little while before this film was made. Well, Philippa Gregory, the author, has a bunch of these type of books that were popular, that are, like, historical fiction, not really based in too much fact that we know about history. Case in point, the other Bolein girl, doesn't even get the basic fact of who is the older sister. Right, right. that's that's that's so funny to me that it was and i don't know why right it wouldn't change the dynamic or it's not like the older sister is like canonically always like the schemier like

pardon the slur warrior one someone who gets too hung up on fact in movies certainly not like no one's going to this for historical accuracy right right but like that bothered me so much in the whole movie because it's like, A, clearly, you probably just, it's either you made it for a choice that makes no sense or you didn't

research anything. Well, so. Here's the other, the thing, and I agree with you, historical accuracy, and especially when you go back this far, it's just like, I don't care. I don't care. Make a good story. Give me a good story. But that was the problem is this,

the other Berlin girl is trying to turn this kind of, you know, historical, whatever period in England's royal history into something sort of juicy, sort of like, you know, two sisters vying for the same man, like trashy kind of a thing, almost. But like, it doesn't go far enough. And also, the real life story is actually much trashier, the fact that, like, in actual real life, Mary Berlin was fucking the king of France first and then came and, like, was with Henry the eighth.

That's a goddamn better story, but it managed to, like, sand it off or, like, ignored all of these, like, potentially really sort of juicy, soapy edges for a story that was essentially, like, here's the good one, and here's the bad one. And look what happens to the bad one. Like, the fact that this, this movie's worse than I remembered it. I remember seeing it once, and I just being like, it's not good, but, like, it's Natalie Portman and Scarlett Johansson. I'm having a good time, whatever. Right. I watched it this time. Well, we've seen them give better performances in the time since, too. So it's like, that's not really even. I mean, they had given better performances before this, too. Like, they were better on both sides of this movie. But I...

But, like, this is before Black Swan, even. So, like, Natalie Portman, like, she's not bad in this movie, but, like, she's the best one in this. Well, no, Kristen Scott Thomas and the woman who plays Catherine of Aragon are the two best, I feel like, in this movie. There's the two times when I feel like the movie really, like, become something. I'm, just, like, leaning forward in my seat to watch. But, like, of the major players, like, Natalie's definitely the best one, I feel like. Even though the way she says besotted is so funny to me, the way she pronounces that word. Because she has that little sort of, like, it's not a lisp in her voice, but she, yes, she used to sort of have a lisp, and I think you can see where she's, like, worked to correct it.

And sometimes when there are words, like, besotted, and she, like, she just puts a lot of muster on it when she says it It's very funny It does feel like a lesser version of her closer performance And that like she's kind of Putting on certain different airs To manipulate whatever situation

She's approached with in the movie And there's kind of huge character arc That goes into it But it's just like It's so stuffy I feel like actually the leads All suffer from the movie Wanting to be

a different movie than, like, what we were just saying of, like, that's the more interesting story, or, like, this movie has a weird relationship with, like, salaciousness. I feel like... It's a lot of, like, it doesn't quite get there. It should. It should want to. And I wonder if part of that is because this is based on a novel written by, like, I don't want to, like, bring gender fully into it, but, like, it's a novel written by a woman that was adapted by a man, Peter Morrie. and then directed by another man, Justin Chadwick. And it's like, I do feel like, it doesn't, like, this doesn't have to be like, you know, Tudor's era, a promising young woman or anything like that. But I feel like something that was a little bit more, like, a neurotic thriller.

Or just like, or just like, just fully, like, take the soapiness to the nth degree where it's just like this one keeps trying to tripping up its own soapiness by like cutting back to Mark Rylens. and David Morrissey, like, scheming to get the Boulin's, like, better status. And it's just like, after, especially after, I know you didn't watch Game of Thrones, but, like, after Game of Thrones, all of this kind of medieval, uh, wrangling for power feels really watered down and just like, whatever, it's just like, yeah, whatever. Like, that's not what I'm interested in. It feels like they're trying to tell the version

that could potentially be shown in, like, high school history classrooms, you know? Right. versus, like, the one that's a better movie. But you're never, but that's never going to happen also because, like, the other half of this movie is just sort of like, you know, sisters squablin, like, whatever, whatever. And I, like, the dynamic of, again, it's funny that this is before Black Swan happened, because this is very like white swan, black swan, right? We're like, good girl, bad girl. And the ways in which this movie, and like, the story of Anne Boleyn is a real story. So, like, we all know that, like, this doesn't end well for her as we're going into this movie.

But the ways in which this movie treats her fate as the end result of her ambition and the end result of her sort of going too far is gross. And speaking of Game of Thrones, I remember there was that big huge controversy midway through where there was a rape scene with Sophie Turner's character and a lot of people got very, very upset. set that, like, that show was using, uh, rape irresponsibly. And I was always sort of like, maybe, maybe not with that. But like something like this movie, where, like, her first sexual encounter with Henry after they're married is filmed as a rape. And it's essentially, it's like, it's not like she got what she deserved, but it's filmed as like a cautionary tale almost. Like Anne schemed and

and whatever and like this is the hot water she's ended up in and it's just like it felt so gross to me. The movie never really connects the dots with like I guess that it's not even good on a palace intrigue type

of narrative. Not as good as it could be no. Because like those things become problems in this movie because it never really connects the dots that like they were doing this in order to have the best possible life. Also, these are people who, like, maybe come into contact with, like, no real people other than, like, crazy, uh, court people.

Right. And, like, like, actual insanity. Right. And everybody is also, you know, it's, I'm not saying this. I'm not being eloquent here. But, like, the movie doesn't really attach a lot of those things and, like, the other horrible things, like, the banishment of Mary, you know, the way that women are treated when they either miscarry or, like, just don't give birth to sons. Like, it's so kind of casual about that in that, like, it doesn't, it wants to be not a girl power movie, but one that's like, these were women of limited. options, and it doesn't do that well at all.

Right. I almost feel like full-on, like, go into historical fiction with this. Like, fully disregard the actual historical record and, like, do something that, like, is anachronistic or something. Maybe that would be interesting. But, like, just on a baseline level, just, like, write the merry character in a way that makes sense. Like, that character makes no sense in this movie, or at least... No. Or at least, like, we don't feel any agency with her, because we're never really in her head at all, ever. We're sort of in Anne's head for a while. But, like, Mary is just this kind of, like, symbol of purity and good intention. And, like, down to the point where, like, the king, like, makes love to her sweetly.

And, like, he has sex with Natalie, like, roughly and violating her and whatever. And it's, like, do we really have to, like, draw the, like, Madonna horror lines quite so vividly? Yeah, it's very bent on presenting them in a binary. Whereas like Scarlet is dressed in like these sort of like soft gold tones and then here comes Natalie in like

bold like salacious green and whatever and I don't know. I mean it definitely limits the performances too I think especially Natalie Portman if the character on the page wasn't drawn

so like specifically I think that she kind of navigates some of those flirtation scenes really interesting in a way that was kind of fun to watch. Yeah. But even, you mentioned Mary. See, Anne is the one that I have a problem with, like, how they characterize her. Because, like, even from the very beginning, when they present to her, hey, you're going to go flirt with the king and hopefully have sex with the king, she's immediately like, no, she's aghast by this. She doesn't want to do it. And then it's just like, by a turn, she's like, okay.

I guess I'm going to do it Right, right Well, it's almost like She gets presented with this option By her gross-ass uncle And her gross-ass dad And she's just like Kind of insulted by it

But also like semi-intrigued But she's not like She doesn't seem super into it And then the hunting accident happens And she gets blamed for it Which like Classic typical And all of a sudden

Mary, well we'll give into this and the other end of it, the whole Henry the eighth of it. But, like, the fact that that, like, Mary then is chosen to be like, well, Mary, why don't you then become the one will dangle in front of Henry? And that's when Anne is just like, no, not her, me. And it's just like, oh, my God. Like, the fact that, like, just base sisterly jealousy. And again, that kind of thing can work if it's a more heightened, soapy experience than this is. But that's not what the movie that we got. Yeah, Anne's investment in the plot shifts constantly and without much explanation. But why don't we do the 60-second plot description now so that we can get into,

because I want to talk about more sort of plot stuff and sort of the Henry of it all and that kind of thing. And I'm going one minute on the clock if you are prepared. Oh boy. But before we do that, we're going to telling you we're going to talk about the other Berlin girl today from 2008 directed by Justin Chadwick Of Tulip Fever fame Of Tulip Fever fame Our second Justin Chadwick film

Yes Creeping up on Ridley Scott Now he just has to make You know Three more movies to To qualify Written by Peter Morgan We'll get into it

Based on the novel by Philip A Gregory Starring A Deep Breath Natalie Portman Scarlet Johansson Eric Banna Mark Rylance

Kristen Scott Thomas David Morrissey Jim Sturgis Juno Temple, Eddie Redmayne, Benedict Cumberbatch. The cast list that I saw says that Andrew Garfield is in this movie. I absolutely must have blinked and missed him. Yes. Joanna Scanlan is even in this movie.

What's his name from Game of Thrones? Alfie Allen shows up for like half of a second in this movie. Yeah? Yeah, that's a whole thing. Everybody's in this movie. If you were British and between the ages of like 20 and 24, you were in this movie, apparently. So, yeah, it premiered hilarious. enough at the Berlin International

Film Festival on February 15th, 2008. Out of competition at that. Yeah. And then was released wide on fucking leap day, February 29th, 2008, so that it would never be memorialized again, apparently.

After initially being scheduled to be I think like a November release for most of the previous year, and unceremoniously dropped. I blame Elizabeth the first and the hurricane she brought into court. She had a hurricane in her, and it whisked out.

Strips Spain bear because someone tried her. And blew the other Berlin girl into February. Yes, exactly. God, what a fucking scene. I watched that scene just randomly as a pick-me-up so often, the Elizabeth, the Golden Age scene. I too can command the win, sir. I have a hurricane in me that will strip Spain bear in your...

dare to try me like that's the only really part about that movie that's actually worth it to me but like it's so worth it it's so over the top that was the scene that they showed it as her Oscar clip that she cringed in the audience after they showed it yeah I think so

stand up stand up for your over the top self Kate like you deserve it no that's the clip that they played and then she said that's gross it's not gross it's over the top acting no that was the wolf man. That was the wolf man. That sure was.

Gross-ass wolf-man. All right. Chris, I've put 60 seconds on the clock for you for, to give you time to describe the plot of the other bullet girl. Are you ready? Yeah. And go. Okay, so King Henry V. 8th is having issues with having a male heir, or male heir. The Balane family says, hey, we could try to get our daughter Anne to floor. him and hook up with him.

Meanwhile, their daughter Mary, played by Scarlett Johansson, is the, she's getting married and starting a family, whatever. However, there's an injury when Henry VIII is hunting at their house, and he's not into Anne anymore. He's into Mary, because she's, like, nice and soft. And then anyway, he gets her pregnant, has a male error. I can't say error. And she, Anne eventually, like, swoops in after being banished off to France, and then she

comes back, and then she's with Henry V. 8th, gets her sister sent away, and then she can't give a male error, even though she has Elizabeth I first, and then he eventually beheads her because she says, hey, brother, let's have sex. Yeah. Poor Jim Sturgis. I am back to being terrible at the 60 seconds. A lot description, for one. Don't know why I can't say the word error.

That didn't help you. That sure didn't help you. But the fact that you were still on. the hunt scene at the 30-second mark, I'm like, oh, he's in trouble. Oh, no. Oh, this is not going to be enough time. My brain doesn't work in this way. I will say for an actor who-

You know what the story is. You know what this is. You get it. You get it. Also, the fact that, like- It ends with incest intrigue. It does. Port, like.

Yeah, Natalie, Anne miscarries her baby. and is already kind of panicked that the king is moving on to other women and is going to kick her to the curb and everybody in England hates her anyway, so it's not going to end well for her if that happens. And so she's so desperate to still be pregnant and not have the king find out that she miscarried that she turns to her brother, played by Jim Sturgis, and is like, you got to get me pregnant.

Which, A, like, I know there weren't OBGYNs in medieval England or whatever. but, like, just because you want to get pregnant right now, you just miscarried. I'm guessing that, like, now's not the perfect time for you to, like, be, like, fertile franny and get pregnant again. So, like, A. B, the fact that it all happens in, like, this one, like, fraught moment, and Mary, who was, like, again, pure sweet Mary is there in the room, and it's just, like, yaller gross, I'm leaving. and it's just such a weirdly film scene. And Jim Sturgis, as their brother, George, is like, who, who?

Like, he's like, I don't know, maybe. He goes kombucha girl about it. I was going to say, though, for an actor, for an actor, I don't always love, or at least, like, who doesn't always make a real impression with me one way or another, I think Jim Sturgis, for like, the two scenes that he actually has anything to do in this movie, is actually really good and effective. The scene where he's just like, I can't do it with him is like, it's a ridiculous scene to try and sell, and he actually does a pretty good job of it.

He also does a pretty good job of like being like, I don't want to marry Juno Temple. She seems like a lot. Like, I really enjoyed that too, where it's just like. I was really happy for Juno Temple to be cast off type because she's the more like puritanical stuffy one in this movie. No. normally, like, how often has she been cast as, like, an underage sex worker? That is true, but you forget that this is smack in the middle of Juno Temple's, um, meddlesome little girl who gets bitches killed, like, thing.

She got two people killed in this movie. She got two people killed in this movie, and she got James McAvoy killed in, uh, in atonement. So, like, truly... I would have put that more on Brian Eagher. getting him killed. Well, Briani sure didn't help, that's for sure.

But, like, the fact that, like, Juno Temple, like, refusing to own up to stipping, uh,

Benedict Cumberbatch. Uh, also, by the way, weird atonement reunion in this movie, Benedict Cumberbatch being in this movie, Benedict Cumberbatch being in this movie and, like, the human embodiment of just like,

I don't want to be married to that guy. Like, that's really funny. But, like, where Mary's just like, I guess I'm married to him. Cool. Yes, but he's a rapist in that movie.

I'm pretty sure he rapes Juno Temple in that movie. Was that the case? Then I shouldn't speak it that way. Clearly, you haven't seen Atonement recently enough, as you should. We are all contractually obligated to watch Atonement once every six months. Weirdly, I've watched Atonement a bunch, but it's when I like catch it on like television on like a pay cable movie station or whatever, and it's like already past that point. So, because I remember this part later in the movie where like Juno Temple could come clean and she,

doesn't. There's a part of that, right? Well, because she eventually is like married to him and has children. See, that's what got me confused. So, like, there's a whole toxic thing there. And that the movie, in fairness, does, like, blur that line. Tell you all of that in, like, five seconds.

It does. It does. You're right. But you're right. I misspoke. But anyway, Juno Temple adjacent to lies, falsehoods, and fallacy is getting people killed. I wonder how many people are responsive. she's responsible for their deaths and the Dark Night Rises.

I mean, you could, you know, draw some lines. Although, I don't, you know, prison culture was too hard in Gotham on lady cat burglaresses. So I don't want to put any blame on Juno Temple in the Dark Night Rises. You know, we really could have changed her typecast if we cast Juno Temple as Bain. I would like to see her do that dialect with the mask. Frey your city. I don't, I can't do the pain voice. No, I just.

Juno Temple should make a comeback. I kind of miss. I do think she's good. She's always good. She's just playing the same thing. Juno Temple is currently on Ted Lassow and is rad as hell on that show. Like, I really, really love her. I'm not watching Ted Lenthal.

She's a footballer's wife, essentially, and she's very, very good and fun. But anyway, Juno Temple isn't, uh, in this movie tons, so we don't have to devote too much time to her. But I did want to mention because you got to the end of the plot description. There are two things in the post scripts at the end of the movie. This is one of those movie with like six title cards worth of post script. One of them is

talked about how Henry breaking with the Roman Catholic Church changed the face of England forever. And all I wanted was the next line of that to be today we call them Anglicans. Today we call it Protestantism. But the other thing was at the very end, which, by the way, this is the only movie. This is when I felt that today we call them computers moment.

Okay. But like this is the only movie in creation that has ever imagined England as being filled with flowing fields of golden wheat. Which I thought was just like, we're in England, right? Like, isn't this just like Mossy Hill after Mossy Hill? Like where did they import? the Terence Malick-esque-esque-esk golden wheat fields for children to run around and frolic in. Okay. But that's how we end this movie.

Yes. But doesn't Elizabeth, like the beginning of Elizabeth with Blanchett, isn't she in a wheat field? Isn't there a shot of her, like, looking back over her shoulder at Joseph Fines in, like, flowy garment? I'm going to take your word for that. It's been a while since I've seen. It's possible. It's been a while.

Movies with wheat fields versus movies with generalized fields. I guess my perception of sort of old England is very Jane Austen sort of like or the Bronte sisters and these just sort of like green rolling hills or whatever. But apparently the English countryside is filled with golden wheat fields and good for them. And so yeah, the end of this movie. But I bring it up because my memory of the Shakar Kapoor. Elizabeth has that thing of like her growing up in wheat

fields and like where they end this movie on the like motion freeze frame of baby Elizabeth. Freeze frame. Enjoying her life. I was like are they directly trying to draw an analog to a movie from a decade ago? I wanted them

to like appropriately enough for 2008 like Benjamin Button D. Age Kate Blanchett so like she's just a little like a little toddler with Kate Blanchett's face like running around this weed field, because it did feel very much like, tune in to our next episode, or 1998's Elizabeth.

Well, okay, but like, you also mentioned the post script. The whole, the post script, everything regarding Queen Elizabeth in this movie drove me crazy because when Queen Elizabeth is born, there's like a complete shift in the score to be like this sentimental thing as it stares at this baby.

And it's like, yeah, we know that this is Queen Elizabeth that was just born. We get it. We know. We knew that this was happening to. They wait so long to give you that last post script of Elizabeth. It's like, yeah, we fucking know, you freaking maniacs.

Well, the postscript basically ends up being like, his next air would be... A daughter. Named. A daughter for 45 years completely going over Queen Mary. Oh, yeah.

Like, the collar pulling, ooh, like what happened with Queen Mary? Yeah. But then it was like, Like, it does say her name. And, like, literally, I said out loud, today we call her Elizabeth. Yes. It all felt very, like, but it's just like, they just, like, they draw out that moment so, so long.

And it's Mary Berlin, Scarlett Johansson, who has now married poor Eddie Redmayne, who, like, sorry, kiddo, like, you can't keep up with this girl. I don't know what to tell you. Like, you are not a match for her, but okay. Like, sort of, like, running around, and again, these golden days. wheat fields with their children. And I love that, like, they have two other kids who, like, don't get named and, like, who gives a shit? Like, she apparently gave birth to the male heir of Henry VIII and, like, no one cares. Like, okay, it's just, you know, footnote in history, which, you know, appropriate, fair, whatever. Um, yeah, it's not a good movie. It's a significantly

less good movie than even I thought initially, and I initially didn't really think it was very good. See, it's a frustratingly bad movie because almost at every moment that you're watching it, you can fully visualize the version that is just a little bit different in one way or another, and it's a really good movie. Well, and also, like... Or at least a very entertaining one. I was super, super amped to see this movie in 2008 because, like, you put Natalie Portman and Scarlett Johansson as sisters in a movie where they're like part of the royal court or whatever. It's just like, yeah, I'm gonna fucking see that movie and then like the other thing so like the fact that this isn't a very good movie and it was like not reviewed as such like 43% rotten tomatoes 50 Metacritic like it was dead

in the water and then it opened besides that it opened in February like this was an Oscar buzz movie like only from like when it was scheduled for the fall right like because it was this is less common now and we've talked about this before but like there's plenty of movies that were like this had Oscar buzz movies that when it got closer to the fall they got pushed into the next year and it was always immediately like oh well we know oh warning sign yeah now we'll take all our expectations off of this yeah now that even just like a decade or so later it feels way more even corporate where it's like the studios will like stick their heels in the sand in terms of when they schedule things on the calendar and they don't really move in that way or they'll just let them die if it's like failed Oscar buzz movies. But I was looking at like

why the expectation was and like there's, we'll get into the talent involved for sure, but just like the fact that movies about English royalty tend to have like a little bit of a leg up or at least like

we keep a special eye on them because in general Hollywood has been really interesting. in that, and the Oscars have kind of flocked to that. And I sort of took a little bit of a look back through history. There were fewer Best Picture nominees about the Royals than I really remembered. But in the 2000s and late 1990s, where, again, we mentioned Elizabeth, Cape Lanching getting two nominations out of both of those Elizabeth movies for playing Queen Elizabeth

the first. Around that same time, Judy Dench wins her Oscar for playing Queen Elizabeth the first. in Shakespeare in love. Helen Mirren wins her Oscar for playing Queen Elizabeth I second in 2006. And like that's sort of maybe a little bit of like the modern flavor of royals in Oscar movies because there's also like Judy Dench and Mrs. Brown

1997 her first nomination where it's just like queens in their older years, that kind of thing. Judy Dench recurs almost kind of almost got nominated again for Victoria and Abdul. We will, history will absolutely forget how close to that came to happening. But that was like Globe and SAG nominations, right? And BAFTA?

I'm sure BAFTA. I would be shocked if it wasn't BAFTA. I forget if it was BAFTA or not, but it was definitely Globes' comedy, which was bullshit. Yes. And that movie's terrible. Yeah, that movie is not good. But then you look back to, and there was also stuff like, that was sort of on the

periphery, like the Young Victoria, which got costume nomination, but like didn't. Costume win. costume win, you're right, Sandy Powell for that as well. I already have two of these. She's the best. Cindy Powell said, I already have two of these and then went on to do like a treatise about how it's not all costume designers that do movies about royalty or whatever, and that contemporary costume design is just as difficult as period costume design.

Yeah. Which is funny because, like, yeah, she's gotten rewarded for, uh, a bunch of times. That was 2009, right, the year after the other Bullen Girl? Young Victoria? Yes, let me look that up. That was one. That also is the costume designer for this movie.

Yes. Good costumes, even if I was sort of irked by how they were utilized in this movie, but that's not Sandy's fault. But, like, Emily Blunt was sort of on the periphery of best actress that year. She got a Golden Globe nomination for the Young Victoria, that sort of thing. But if you look back, especially in, like, the 1960s, like, Best Picture was pretty often populated with movies about the Royals, whether it was, obviously, Anne of the Thousand Days is the one that you think of

when you watch the other Berlin Girl, because that was obviously about Anne Boleyn. That was 10 Oscar nominations for that, including Best Picture, and Best Actor nomination for Richard Burton, Best Actress nomination for Genevieve Bujold. And The Lion in Winter was nominated for Best Picture in 1968, wins best actress for Catherine Hepburn in the famous tie with Barbara Streisand. A Man for All Seasons wins Best Picture in 1966, which is like the title character in that isn't a royal, but it's like the whole thing about Thomas Moore is his interactions with

Henry the 8th and like over the split with the church and all this sort of stuff. So like same subject matter. There's a movie like Beckett in 1964. So like 60s Oscars were very, very, very into the Royals. And I think since then, everything with that subject matter is at least being like, well, maybe, because, like, they've gone for it before. And that definitely, I think, played into a lot of why people looked at the other Berlin girl and was like, oh, costume drama with a couple actresses who have really, like, made their mark recently. Natalie was after her closer nomination, her Oscar nomination. And, like, Scarlett was after her big 2003 breakout year, with Lost in Translation and Girl with the Pearl Earing.

So it makes sense. Not quite at the point of when will Scarlet Johansson finally be nominated? Right. Or even to the point of we need Scarlet Johansson to stop speaking in public. All of those things happened. I want to get into... This is before then. Right.

So let's get into the Scarlet Johansson thing. Unless you have, do you have anything else to really, to say about the sort of the royals of it all with Austin? Uh, not really just to, like, maybe reinforce what you've been saying about it. Like, it's always formerly been Oscars thing, but it still kind of is because there's always that potential for, like, a handful of nominations. And if it's good, it might translate to best picture because, like, obviously costumes are come into mind when, like, these type of movies get predictions. But, like, you see it in score, cinematography, art direction. And, like, if it's a good one, it could potentially always. be best picture. Mary Queen of Scots is a really good recent example of that, where it's like,

you know, the movie didn't really hit with audiences, or really with critics. It's not like critics hated it, but like it was definitely a middling. Talk about nominations that almost happened, that people fully forget almost happening. Margot Robbie had to have been sixth place. Margo Robbie came very, very close. She got a SAG nomination. And then, and what did it get nominee. It was makeup? What did it get nominated for? I think it was nominated for the wig reveals and her whatever pestilence she has. I forget. Yeah. I don't think it was a costume nominee, though the costumes in that movie are wild. It was. Alexander Byrne was nominated for costumes, and then it was also nominated for makeup and hairstyling. Yeah, Marco Robbie got a Bafta nomination,

a SAG nomination. And did she get Critics' Choice? I don't think she did. Yes? No, she didn't. Sorry. Critics' choice went for the same categories as the Oscars did, hair and makeup and a costume.

So, yeah, I think that's a really good example of the fact that, like, even now today, when, like, the Royals are kind of relegated to, like, oh, TV's doing the Royals now. I mean, talk about Peter Morgan, which we will. But, like, the Crown is sort of where we put all our royals fetishes. now. But movies are still, you know, can still hold that pull. So, but let's talk about Scarlet Johansson for a second, because this is a really interesting sort of point in her career. And I think her career is more interesting maybe than we kind of almost want to talk about these days because she is not everybody's favorite public persona, let's say. She tends to

put her foot in her mouth a lot about things. She tends to take appropriative roles that get people really pissed off. And I don't really want to get into that exactly. But, like, her career specifically is really interesting. We've talked about her... This is before all that, too. Right. This is even before her getting in with Woody Allen.

No, it's after her getting in with Woody Allen. When was Scoop? Scoop was 06. Match point was 05. So it is after. Right. So, yeah. So just to sort of, like, walk you down the line.

Obviously, she was in things. She was in things like the horse whisperer and Manny and Lowe and stuff like that, which were on like, you know, other different radars. But her big breakthrough is, her first breakthrough is in 2001 with Ghost World and Man who wasn't there. When that was sort of like, then she started to like ping on people's radar. And then obviously 2003 is the big breakthrough with Lost in Translation and Girl with a Pearl Earing.

The irony being those two together helped make her like a thing. But those two together also is why she didn't get an Oscar nomination, almost certainly, because they were sort of in competition with each other and she was splitting her own vote, which is too bad because I think she's great in both of them. I think Girl of the Pearl Earing is one of the reasons why she ends up getting something like the other Berlin girl, I think. But Lost in Translation, I mean, whatever, I've talked about it before.

She's so good. 2004 is a rough year. We've talked about a love song for Bobby Long on this podcast, which she does get a Golden Globe nomination, but like, it's not a good movie and nobody likes it. And nobody sees it. She's also in that movie A Good Woman, which is also a costume drama. I've never seen that movie.

It is Helen Hunt. Am I crazy? No, you're not crazy. That's exactly who it is. It's Helen Hunt. That was, again, a lot of people sort of looked at that ahead and was just like, oh, costume drama, Helen Hunt, Scarlett Johansson, maybe nothing comes of it. In Good Company gets, I think that's like a wide release movie, but like nothing comes

of it. Very end of the year. Yeah, right. December. It's her and Tofer Grace and her... And Dennis Quaid. We should talk about this movie sometime. We should. It's that her dad is Dennis Quaid and he's his boss. He's Tofer Grace's boss. Yeah. No, I believe Tofer Grace is Dennis Quaid boss. That's the twist. Of course. I was like, that seems like a really traditional premise for a movie. No, you're right. The twist is Tofer Grace is Dennis Quade's boss because capitalism sucks. Okay, 2005 is a real up and down year.

She is in the island, which is like even among Michael Bay movies, that's the derided one. That's the one where like nobody sticks up for the island. Everybody's like, that's bad. But then she's also in Match Point, which is like a real career spike for her, where she gets a Golden Globe nomination for supporting actress. She was really in contention for an Oscar nomination. I thought she would have deserved one. I think she's really good in that movie. She was never probably as close as you might have expected in hindsight because she probably ended up being like seventh or eighth.

That's possibly true. With only a Globe nomination. Yeah, no, that's fair. And 2005 for supporting actress is a really like competitive year. Shirley McClain is also in contention that year and doesn't get it for in her shoes. We've talked about this all. The miraculous in her shoes. Right.

So matchpoint sort of ticks off. she has this sort of like mini Woody Allen era which talk about you know things that don't endear her to the public now was just like oh right remember she was like Woody Ellen's favorite person for a while and she's in Matchpoint in 06

or match point in 05 scoop in 06 which people didn't really like as much and she's playing the like Woody Allen she's playing a Woody Allen analog yet Woody Allen is also in that movie where like her character is like

You're kind of like girl Nebishi and like what's going on there where she's, I don't know. It's an odd, odd characterization in that movie. I kind of like it. It's not bad. I never saw it. Can't imagine I will at this point. Yeah, at this point. There's really no need.

And then she's also in the Black Dahlia and the prestige kind of playing similar roles in that, right? Where she's like the intriguing woman who like isn't central to the plot exactly. She's sort of a Like a, she's sort of like a femme fatal right in the Black Dahlia Both of those movies are way more interested in the men The male characters The story, though the women are what's the most interesting probably Yeah, she's definitely the least interesting part of the prestige by quite a bit

Like she's really eclipsed by Rebecca Hall, I think, in that movie Which is interesting They both star together in Scarlet's third Woody Allen movie Which is Vicki Christina of Barcelona, I really like a lot. And I think both of them are very good in it. And is the same year as the other Berlin girl, right? So, like, that's Scarlett's good movie in 2008,

because she also has The Spirit, which is the very forgettable sort of comic book. That was Frank Miller, I think, directed that or something like that, if I'm not wrong. Yeah. Gabriel mocked, if I'm correct. Right. And then sort of, then her little, she's like, about five years.

sort of like semi in the wilderness where like that's the period where she gets into the Marvel universe which is obviously very good for her but everything else she makes is just like he's just not that into you and we bought a zoo and even like Hitchcock which was like received decently well but like not for her like she plays Janet Lee in Hitchcock and like no one remembers that like I remember more people talking about Tony Colette in that movie yeah right like almost everybody overshadows playing the iconic jamic league the thing about scarlet johansen is like she tends to whenever she's in a big ensemble movie she tends to get overshadowed like she does best and we'll see that when we move on to sort of her later in career stuff she does her best when like the spotlight is really on her and or she's asked to do something that's the other way left field Like, I would even classify what she's doing in Don John as left field for the type of things that she had done. That's the thing.

And I think we're both in agreement that she's good in the movie. 2013 sets off this, like, two or three year period for her, which is, like, easily, I think, the most interesting of her career, where she's great in Don John. I think she's great. I think that's a movie that really gets into, like, I think Scarlet Johansson's a really talented actress. but I think she's been miscast or misused in a lot of things where like a lot of things just like don't seem to know how to use her to her best advantage and like Don John like nails it and like really taps into a role that she can like kill it and she really kills it I think and Don John and I think she's incredibly funny. That's the same year also that she is the voice of the AI and her where there was actually some talk of like should we give a voice performance? an Oscar nomination because she was like she was that good and people She makes a movie work. Yeah. Yes, she does.

A movie that like in many ways I feel like maybe shouldn't work and like it does in part because of her. And then her 2014 is rad as hell where it's under the skin which gets released in 2014 after playing festivals in 2013. Her best performance. Her best performance. It's really

fascinating and like so different obviously from something like Don John. So, like, it really showed her range that she would go from, like, that to that in, like, the span of a year. She's also in Lucy, Luke Besant's Lucy, which I think is rad as hell. And I think she's really, really good in that also. And... That did something for her career, too, because, like, at this point, she's done multiple MCU movies, but, like, hadn't had a hit that wasn't an MCU movie, and that movie was a hit. And I think Lucy is when...

I think the one, two of, I can't remember what year Age of Ultron was. Age of Ultron might have been 15. It was 15. So, like, Lucy in 2014 and then Age of Ultron, which has that scene where everybody got really mad that the movie was sort of saying something about Natasha's infertility, that it was, like, bad. I don't know. It was a really, like, it was an odd little weird disingenuous argument that people were making. about that movie. But I think those two things back to back really drummed up this whole Black Widow should have her own solo movie. Why doesn't Black Widow have her own solo movie? And I think

Lucy was a big part of that because she was able to headline a movie by herself and it was a really big success. And people are like, well, she did it there. Like, what's your argument for why Black Widow can't have her own movie? And then weirdly, after 2014, it's this other like five year, except for Marvel, five-year kind of low point where, like, I really like Hail Caesar, but like she gets kind of lost in that. That's another movie where like it's a big ensemble and a lot of people

are really good. She does a voice that made me laugh my ass off, though. Oh, I don't think she's bad in it, but I do feel like nobody really remembers that movie for her. You remember Alden Aaron Reich and Ray Fines and Channing Tatum and Tilda even, and a lot of people before you get down

to remembering Scarlet. I even remember like Francis McDormand getting her sort of neck, her bow caught in the editing machine. I think that's such a funny scene. I love Hell Caesar. I know a lot of people don't, but I really enjoyed that movie. A lot, a lot, a lot. And then 2017 is so rough for her.

No pun intended, but like that's the double feature from hell. This is when it really kicks in. That's like, we don't feel great about Scarlet Johansson. She's in Rough Night and Ghost in the Shell, both. at the same time, and it's just like, oh, girl. Rough Night isn't, like, Rough Night has its moments. It's not a terrible movie, but, like, it's not a great movie.

But it also had the extreme ill fortune of opening, of happening the same year as Girls' Trip. And every single person, to a person, was just like, yeah, Girl's Trip is the one we're going to be paying attention to and liking and enjoying, because it's a lot better. It was good. It had actual characters in it, which, like, Ruff,

Night does not. Yeah, and they were both, like, very, very similar themes. And then 2019, like, comeback story where she's in, I know we've disagreed about marriage story, we don't have to get into it again, but, like, she's... We've also disagreed about Jojo Rabbit, probably more strongly disagree about Jojo. Maybe not on the podcast, though, but yeah, I do enjoy Jojo Rabbit, and I think she's very good in that movie, and I think the double nomination. for Marriage Story and Jojo Rabbit in 2019

was not something that I think anybody was like raw-v-rah cheering about but like I kind of can't find fault with either one. I do feel like that double nomination doesn't happen if she had been nominated before. That's very sure. If she'd had a nomination for something else,

I think it would have been one or the other for that movie. Yeah. So I don't know. Where do you come down? I know she's, you know, a little bit of a divisive figure. I think ultimately she's really talented and given the right role and the right, you know, surroundings around her, like she can deliver something really, really good. I mean, I definitely really liked her in Marriage Story and it kind of made me excited for her again, not excited to ever, like, read a quote that she said, but like that she got to do something different. um yeah you know that then she'd done before not like to the degree of under the skin but like

yeah felt like a pivot in a way that we'll see what happens next if black widow is ever released right if we ever ever get to see black widow that's the other thing about like just the fact that like 2020 happened black widow doesn't get released and now like Wanda vision and elizabeth olson and, like, very deservedly, I would say. I have, like, completely, like, eaten the lunch of any Marvel movie that was going to be released in 2020 and now hasn't been released yet. And, like, because also from what we know of, from, like, just casting, that Elizabeth Olson is going to be a major character, major star in the Doctor Strange movie, that, like, so, like, Wanda Vision has now become the thing. and it is going to be the thing that moves us into the next set of movies

and I think because of that Black Widow has really, really become an afterthought in a way that like I really feel bad for her I feel bad for Florence Pew and it's just like it's kind of a bummer that like we've fully moved on and even to the fact that just like why haven't like they had a

female led Marvel movie and it's like well that now has happened with Captain Marvel and now that's also happening with, like, the TV, like, probably the most widely enjoyed Marvel thing in a while is Wanda Vision, and, like, that's obviously being... Black Widow is also, like, a prequel, so, like, at this point, it's hard to get super excited about what the story will be. Right. It's outside of the timeline of Avengers Endgame to where we are now. We like Florence Pugh.

We want to be seeing her doing other things than being stuck in superhero movies. Right. Because, like, it definitely seems like they're going to be launching her. her towards, you know. Right. Whether it's like, yeah, whether there's a young Avengers kind of a thing happening and whether that character is part of it, I kind of have no idea, but I'm intrigued. So, yeah, I, also, the fact that Scarlett is dating Colin Jost is so, both like, oh, are they married?

God, I'd see the fact that I, like, push that out of my mind. He's one of my least favorite people, not ever, but, like, like, In world history, I'm sure there were a lot worse people than Colin Joe's. But, like, right now in terms of people who are on my television regularly, one of my least favorite people. And so that really, really, really doesn't help. It's sort of another piece of the Scarlett Johansson media presence puzzle that is not fun to look at these days.

So, yeah. But I do want the best for her. I genuinely do. And I don't know whether that's You know The Lost in Translation fan sort of holding on But like I think she's incredibly talented And I mean to kind of pull it back to this performance

Like I'm glad she's not really doing movies like this anymore Because like I even I thought a lot about the girl with pearl earring While watching this And that like when she was younger She was playing a lot of these like ingenue roles That like even though I don't think she's bad by any stretch It's just not that interesting.

Right. It does not play to her strengths. She's not ever embarrassing herself in these movies, but like it's not anything to get excited about. She's so uninteresting in this movie, both in character and in performance. And every time Mary's at the center of a scene, I'm just like, okay, like, can we move on? Like, to literally any other character. Give me Jane Parker. Give me Anne.

Give me Kristen Scott Thomas, who has. was just like killing. How many Christian Scott Thomas have we done? Or do we just talk about Kristen Scott Thomas a lot? This is our fourth Kristen Scott Thomas film that we've talked about after Random Hearts, Salmon Fishing in the Yemen, and then most recently Life is a house. We love her. And this movie would be so much better if she was like 60% more of a character or more of a presence in this film. So that's too bad. Did you agree with me? that the Catherine Averagon scene, where she's on her way to stand

trial for treason or whatever. One of the best scenes in the movie, definitely. Where she opens the scene and goes, the boleyn horse. I was like, yes, bitch. Come on, do it. Drag them. It is a really good scene, though, right? The actress, we should say, is Anna Torrent.

She's fantastic in this movie. Yeah, I had never heard of her before this, and I don't know if I've seen her. in anything since. She's obviously a Spanish actress, and I'm looking at her credits, and I don't see a ton of stuff that I would have seen. But, like, yeah, she fucking rules in that scene. She's really, really good.

Poor Catherine of Averagon. Justice for Catherine of Aragon. I don't know if there's a whole thing with six. Maybe she's, like, the bad one in six. I don't know, but I really like her. I don't think there is a bad one in six. I mean, we can't say justice for Catherine of Aragon just from this movie. I don't know enough about her in history.

Well, sure. I guess, fine, come and cancel me. Consumably any good person in this movie was actually bad. Come and cancel me if Catherine of Aragon ate babies or whatever, and I didn't know about it. And I'm yes, queening a terrible person. A baby eater. I'm sure she had terrible opinions about Me Too or something like that. So, uh, 500 years ago.

I'm on, I'm on the hook of that. Okay, um, let's talk about Peter Morgan for a second, who was like the thing at this point, like was very, very Peter Morgan is so hot right now coming off of, um, he had written obviously the queen, which we didn't quite know at that moment that, um, the English royals of the 20th century were going to be his cash cow. that, like, he's just going to, like, write about them forevermore. But at this point... Ross Nixon was also a theater sensation. Right. Frost Nixon was also, yes, on Broadway, a Tony Award-winning thing. And then the Queen happens, and it's a Best Picture nominee, wins the Oscar for Helen Mirren. Everybody's like...

And also, he was a co-writer that same year on The Last King of Scotland, which was another adaptation. He ends up doing a lot of adaptations where other Berlin Girl, obviously, one of them. He had done rewrites the next year on State of Play, the remake of the British miniseries, which was that originally his miniseries, the British version? Hold on. Not that he's billed for. No, that was Paul Abbott. Sorry, I'm thinking of different British people. But yeah, so he does the screenplay for the Damned United, the Tom Hooper soccer movie

football movie which is also based on a novel and then 2010 original screenplay a lot of light on it a lot of expectation Oscar favorite Clint Eastwood

Hereafter and it's funny to me that like after hereafter Nevermore Kind of yes Like kind of after he's like maybe I'll just do TV because it's just like year after such a disaster. People like Rush.

Yeah. Yeah, Rush is okay. Yes, he does the screenplay for Ron Howard's Rush, which almost gets Daniel Brule an Oscar nomination. He came so tantalizingly close. I kind of feel bad that it didn't happen for him. The interesting connection there, which is like, I'm sure like there is no intent in there, but one of the supporting players in Rush is Natalie Dormer who came to fame. playing Anne Boleyn in The Tudors.

Did you watch The Tudors at all? No. So the Tudors was like, The Tudors is kind of what the other Boulin girl wanted to be a little bit, where even though the Tudors... It was hornyer, right? Because it was in Showtime. It was super horny.

Like, that was the defining characteristic of the Tudors. It's Jonathan Rees Myers playing Henry the 8th and that. But, like, Natalie Dormer is in that. Henry Cavill is in that and, like, fully naked a few days. times. So like, yay for Tudors. Tudors always feels like a show to me. And I went for like a bajillion seasons. It like covered the entirety of the whole Henry VIII saga in that. But that is a show. It was on Showtime. And I always feel like Showtime TV shows with like a couple exceptions, unless you're like Dexter or weeds or I guess shameless kind of.

But, like, a lot of shows that are on Showtime, I feel like, oh, if that were on HBO or Netflix today or something like that, like, way more people would talk about the Tudors. I think it would be, I think it would really have, like, caught on in a different way. Because it was, it's not a show I watched for very long, but I always sort of had, like, a little bit of an awareness of it. And it always just seemed incredibly horny and trashy and whatever. and it's like I think that's a little bit of like

what the other Berlin girl could have gone towards and like been at least more interesting to watch but I don't know listeners who watched the Tudors like chime in and let me know but I always will because Natalie Dormer also was on

Game of Thrones and I fucking loved her on Game of Thrones but she played Anne Boleyn that show wasn't about her in a way that, like, would have been, like, rad if, like, the Tudors was, like, Anne Boleyn, like, rad female at the time. But she really, really played that really well in a way that, like, was really incredibly compelling. And that was the season of the Tudors that I ended up watching. But it was really well cast and, you know, sort of lived in semi-silence on Showtime, which is too bad. But anyway, a show that hasn't lived in silence at all ever is

the crown, and that's sort of what Peter Morgan is cash and checks with now, and probably for the rest of his life. Yes, it's an immensely popular show, but when it's not on the air or recently on the air, I feel like it goes away. It does, but when it's back, though, everybody's fucking into it. Like, it's so big, I feel like. Maybe it's because I cover television, but, like, no, no, I think it's a thing. It's a weird thing that it's like it's a show that people don't dislike, but like they only ever talk about it while it's airing. And every time I'm like, well, at this point, people are kind of like, aren't people over the crown? And then it'll come back and it's like, and it's like, nope, people aren't.

Like, where I'm just like, is this really a good move for Olivia Coleman to like duck back out of movies where she's doing so well? And now she's going to like make a TV show. And it's like, nope, not a bad idea at all. Like gets a globe, even though TV globes don't matter. Right, like, it's, you know, her Emmy nominations and it's just like, Jillian Anderson fucking playing, you know, a Gorgon version of Margaret Thatcher and everybody's just like, give it to us, woman, like, yeah, or like, what's his face? The British boy who looks like all the other British boys. Not George McKay. Not Callum Turner.

The guy who's in God's own country, Josh O'Connor. Connor. Everybody fucking loves him now. Everybody's, like, super into him. And also, by the way, we should say Emerald Fennell also managed to pivot from the crown to kicking ass, directing, promising young woman.

So, like, yeah, the crown's been very good for everybody involved, and Peter Morgan is probably cashing checks on checks, on checks, getting that good Netflix money, and good for him. But, like, I'm kind of not sad. He's not really making movies anymore because he didn't make very many good ones.

Even the ones that were super successful, like the Queen and Frost Nixon, which are both Best Picture nominees, but I'm always like, and I don't hate... No one cares about Frost Nixon. No one cares about Frost Nixon. The last thing, Scotland, I remember being a great movie. But that's more Kevin McDonald's movie and... Yes. Force Whitaker's performance.

Yeah, that's sort of how I feel, yes. I was really bummed. I guess we can't put the whole responsibility of the American version of State of Play on him. That's a movie we should cover, by the way, one of these times. Oh, absolutely. That's another movie that was a fall release that got pushed into the spring. And another Kevin MacDonald movie. But I loved, I loved that miniseries so much. And the... Give me time to watch the miniseries first, maybe. Okay, so you know the type of TV I will care about and I will not care about. Should I actually watch The Crown?

I mean, there's some real good actressing in that, and you do love actresses. I think, you would... I mean, I love Olivia Coleman, but, like, she's done so much TV that I usually let the TV stuff go, and I will watch her movies. You should watch more of her TV, by the way. Her, like, early 2000s comedy stuff is really weird, but she's... It's like, if you loved Olivia Coleman, like, lobster style, you would like a lot of her, uh, like Mitchell and Webb stuff. Um, I think it's, she's just really funny. Like, every time I will post the number Wang sketch on YouTube and nobody knows that it's from. But it's like,

but like a select few. It's always one of like if you know you know, but like she's just... Okay, I will look that show up. I don't need to watch like the cop shows. No, no, no. Broadchurch is good like especially that first season, which is the only season I watched. It's really good but like if you've seen a single

season cop like police investigation drama for the last 10 years you've seen Broadchurch. It's it's in my opinion probably one of the best of them but yeah. It's also incredibly well cast, so like whatever. But like, Helen and Bonham Carter on the Crown as Princess Margaret is so, so good that, like, I almost would recommend you watch just for that. I've also drifted from the Crown a lot. I'll watch like half a season and then just like never finish it or

whatever. And so it's not like I'm like religious with the Crown. I haven't watched any of the Gillian Anderson season. So I can't really be the one to recommend one way or another. But like, maybe jump in for the Olivia Coleman seasons and see what you feel like about that. It can be long and sort of drawn out. And I do feel like you may end up losing patience with it, but like you might not. You might find the performance is, you know, really good. I know some people get really irked by, ugh, why do we pay so much attention to the royals? They're awful.

Like, you know, wealth is a curse, yad, yad, yad. I don't care about that shit. So, like, whatever. But, like, if that kind of stuff bothers you, then maybe also the crown is not for you. I mean, I like watching stories about bad people. Sometimes it's the point that they're bad people. That's the whole point of succession. Also, like, I've never been bothered by, like, our fascination with the Royals.

It's like, yeah, it's fascinating. Like, it is. I'm sorry. It's just, like, it doesn't, that doesn't surprise me. Anyway, we talked about Natalie Performant. Neither of us can talk today. What in the world? We've talked about...

That was a Natalie performance. It was. Well, this is why I said that because, like, this is her fifth performance that we've talked about. We've been on a little bit of a Natalie binge in the last few months. We've talked about this, we've talked about Goya's Ghosts semi-recently and the life, the death and life of John F. Donovan semi-recently. And we had also, a while ago, talked about anywhere but here. and brothers. So it's feel like we've talked about Natalie a lot.

I don't really feel like we need to get into her again too much. But this comes at a really interesting juncture in her career where the Star Wars movies are finally behind her. She also got over the hump of like she got that first Oscar nomination. She's not quite to Black Swan yet. But she did like 2008 is that period where she like, V for Vendetta. obviously Mr. Magoriam's Wonder Emporiam, the most important film of her career.

And then also I would throw in there, and I always do, that Saturday Night Live episode she did, where she did the rap video. That was all, I think, very crucial career management stuff for her, where she really made a transition into more diversified kinds of roles. Obviously, the other Bolein Girl isn't a daring choice, but, like, V for Vendetta is, and... I mean, she was kind of shedding this reputation of being, like, a stuffy actress, or, like, because of the Star Wars movies, unfortunately, not a very good one. Right. Which was never fair or true.

It was just those are not good movies. Right. But you're right. But even something like the other Boleyn girl, where it's just, like, yes, she's a, you know, a royal in this. We're like, I mean, technically she's a royal in the Star Wars movies. but it's like she's this movie at its best is her kind of being like I'm a royal but I'm not boring you know what I mean like that kind of thing and I think she's she brings you know some degree she does have some exquisite line readings that feel like the version of the movie that we want it to be yes there's that scene where she's back in England after being exiled to France which by the way I would have like we've seen some of that. And she's sort of like regaling her table by like essentially just like running down the

French and running down the French king. And Henry the 8th being the like, by the way, after we talk about Natalie, remind me, I do want to talk about Henry in this movie because it's like. Eric Banna. Oh boy. But Natalie, so Henry is just like, you know, what's so basically like what's so interesting. Like tell me what you're talking about. And then she proceeds to like talk about like a kid.

King should be merciful, but strong, and whatever. And they're essentially just like I-fucking in front of this entire banquet hall, and I'm just like, y'all, like, this is a lot, but also, like, Natalie's really, like, commanding of that scene, which I think is really interesting. The peak of the movie, though, is even earlier. It's before the hunt when Henry gets injured, and she's going to ride this horse without a saddle in front of him.

Oh, yes. or how she's going to do that. And she says, the same way you will, with my thighs. And I was like, ma'am. Madam. Yeah, for real. Even, you know, if you are a fellow fan of thighs, it worked for me. Yeah.

So, all right. The fact that so much of the plot of this movie is essentially, we have to babysit. Henry the 8th at every waking moment with like available ass or else he's going to like ruin the country. Like it was a king that is so H word he's willing to piss off the entire Catholic church. Henry the 8th in this movie like defined horny on Maine and by Maine we mean like while he's trying to like run a kingdom. to the fact that, like, Mary has her, almost has a miscarriage, but then, like, keeps the baby, but has to remain, like, in bed, uh, and, like, being, like, very carefully taken care of for the last stages of her pregnancy. And everybody, like, the entire, like, Berlin family, uh, brain trust is like, oh, fuck, he's gonna, like, he's gonna, like, he's gonna find another girl to have sex with. he's going to like move on from her tomorrow so like what are we going to do bring anne back from

france and like literally just like stand in front of him and like shove your cleavage in his face so he doesn't like sway away from mary and it's just like and so many points in this movie that's essentially the thing where it's just like anne gives birth to a girl and then she's just like fuck he's already going to move on to somebody else and it's just like this all does have basis in fact like the whole thing about henry the eighth is that like you know he moved on from wife to wife to wife and it was a whole thing C6 the musical on Broadway when it comes back

to when theater comes back but I don't know it just felt very comical and also the fact that at the same time the costuming on him is fucking hilarious like when I made the joke about shoulder pads in the beginning like I was not kidding

it looks like he is wearing a legitimate full set of like NFL linebacker shoulder pads and then on top I was interested in, like, what did they actually put on Eric Banna's slender body? Yes. Meaning beefy, but he's a slender man to, like, build out his shoulders so that that could physically sit on there. It looked like there was like a Klaus Nomi thing underneath. If you told me that underneath those like bare skins that were like draped over his shoulders, like fucking Alexis Carrington decided to play for the Los Angeles Raiders,

Like, if you told me that undergirding all of that was like a wireframe cage that they had to put under to, like, support it, I would absolutely believe you because it's wildly insane. It's so funny. Every time he walks on screen. I got so nervous. Anytime a character in this movie, like, got close to an open fire, because Eric Banna, when he's in full linebacker mode, would have gone up in flames. Yes. The meme that's going around right now of Tell Me When Your Body Was Fire, Eric Banna in Henry VIII, getting caught in a fire.

Yeah. Also, and his, like, and I've liked Eric Banna in a lot of things, but, like, his primary acting choice in this is to scowl. It's just, like, scowly Henry VIII. And between that and the fact that, like, his head is so easily turned. And I'm just like, this is just a really. dumb characterization of Henry VIII and

I don't know it's I mean starting the whole church at England to have sex with Anne Boleyn which like maybe there's some historical accuracy to that but I just feel like it wouldn't have been just for that like they probably had sex before that

happened right like there's other political machinations this movie's not really right this movie is really trying to sell you on the idea that like Anne Boleyn like Lissa Strata Henry VIII into leaving the church which is like a very like

Yoko broke up the Beatles view of English history that I'm sure has like some basis in, like you said some basis in fact but then probably maybe like 10% basis in fact. Right. This movie is not interested in any other of the

like global political dynamics at the time that like would have contextualized this in a way that, like, again, like, you don't come to this movie for historical accuracy, but, like, the lack of historical, like, thought this movie really has makes it not good. Hey, Chris, yes. Talk to me about the Teen Choice Awards. Okay, so we don't have any precursors to talk about for the other Bolein girl because it was such an early release, and it wasn't well-reviewed. What did happen, the teens, watched the movie and said,

hello, Teen Choice Award, Scarlett Johansson, we're going to nominate you for this movie for choice, movie actress. It's wild that of the two of them, they picked out Scarlett. I just, I don't know, man. Maybe Mary's more relatable to a teen audience or something.

Maybe. However, this to me is maybe the most or second most conceivable that a teen audience actually watched this movie. against Scarjo's other nominees, which I'm going to challenge you to guess. Oh, okay. 2008. So there's four, Scarlett didn't win, one actress, the actress who did win,

famous for a franchise at this point, wasn't Oscar nominated for the performance, but it was a Best Picture nominee. In 2008. 2007. This is definitely on the, like, it's like on an MTV Movie Award. schedule. This was probably the summer of 08. So this was a best picture nominee in 07. Is that what you said? Yes. The winner for choice movie actress from the Teen Choice Awards. Is it Elliot Page from Juno? It is not Elliott Page. It is somebody who wasn't nominated.

I think you might have missed me saying that. Oh, I think I probably did miss you saying that. Okay. Is it Kiran Knightley in Atonement? It was Kiran Knightley in Atonement? It was Kira Knightley in Aton. Wow. Good for her. Good for Kira. Good for all those teens watching Atonement. True. Okay. The other three not Oscar nominees. One is a performance we've talked about because we talked about this movie.

Oh, okay. God, we talked about so many movies. Is it a... From 07. Famous actress. But teens would have liked her. Not, not Natalie. Not Natalie.

Okay. Already an Oscar winner at this point. Oh. Kate? No. No. No, she hadn't. Yes, she had.

She had one supporting by then. Already an Oscar winner by this point. Gwyneth? A semi-recently Oscar winner. This movie. No. this actress starred in the movie with someone they were dating or started to date after the movie.

Oh, God. They were an Oscar winner by this point. Reese? Reese. In fucking rendition? Teen Choice Award. Choice movie actress nominee. Dendat.

Rendition. That is. is insane to me. Oh, my God. There's no chance in hell. You will get the other two. I don't even know how I would give you clues for this, but the conceivable one that teens watched this movie,

Kerry Russell nominated for August Rush. Sure. And then for the poker movie, also with Jim Sturgis, 21, Kate Bosworth. I was going to say, who is the girl in 21? It is Kate Bosworth. August Rush, one of the stranger Oscar nominees, of the 2000s, the fact that that...

Song nominee. Yeah, it's a song nominee. That's crazy. All right, now I want to look at the other teen choice awards that year that... Elliot Page did win for comedy, so that's great. Good, very good. Jessica Alba is the actress winner for The Eye for Horror Thriller. Wow, the I.

Not The Eye. Oh, my God, Choice Fanatic for Fans. David Archiletta. Yep, that tracks. That fully tracks. Now I know exactly when that was happening. Did you know that Scarlett Johansson has been nominated for 15 Teen Choice Awards? How many not in the MCU?

Okay, a lot of these nominations are for multiple movies at once, but I'm counting the nominations as singular. So one, two, three, four. five five five this was the other bolein girl was her fourth teen choice nomination

in five years wow nominated for breakout movie star female for lost in translation and the perfect score uh

choice movie actress drama nominee for in good company choice movie actress drama nominee for both the prestige and the Black Dahlia in 2007. Then the other Boleyn Girl. All those teens watching The Black Dahlia. Then everything after the other Bolein Girl is an MCU nomination, including things like Choice Movie Lip Lock, Her and Chris Evans in the Winter Soldier, Choice Movie Chemistry,

Captain American Civil War, with it's just the people on the Iron Man side of things in Civil War. It's her and Robert Downey Jr. and Don Cheadle and Paul Bettney and Chadwick Bozeman. Now I want to see if they nominated the other half to oppose them. Hold on a second. Yes, they did.

They nominated the Captain America faction against them. That's so funny. Teens are insane. They all lost, by the way, to the kids from the Maze Runner, the Scorch trials. Oh, you know. The Maze Runner had to get something. You had to get something.

But so the only non-MCU nomination after the other Berlin Girl at the Teen Choice Awards for Scarlet was 2012 Choice Movie Actress Drama for We Bought a Zoo. Oh. So. Okay. Good job. I would be remiss if I didn't mention the Teen Choice Awards were the true stands of rendition because they also nominated Jake Gyllenhaun. and choice movie actor in a drama. Wow.

Okay. Okay. This is clearly they just liked this performer. Yeah. They didn't see these movies. The other nominees against rendition in the actor category are stop loss, which won for Channing Tatum and was also nominated for Ryan Philippe. Beautiful.

That was also marketed to like the MTV audience pretty heavily, too. Well, I think that might have been a latter day MTV film. movie. I know it was Paramount. Yeah. I'm pretty sure. Other nominees, Into the Wild for Emil Hirsch, and for Mark

Wahlberg, we own the night. Yeah. All these teens were living for James Gray. What was their best movie? I'm trying to find IMDB is very... Oh, I guess they didn't do...

They do drama. It's going to be like choice movie director. Hong Sang Su. Actually, okay, choice movie drama is very teen appropriate. I will say it's step up to the streets, which deserves. Step up to the streets fucking rules. And I'm glad it beat out other teen sensations, August Rush and Into the Wild.

So very good there. Choice movie comedy. Choice TV looking for love is The Bachelor wins, also nominated with The Bachelorette, flavor of love. Tila Tequila. I love New York. And Rock of Love with Brett Michaels. Oh, Justice for Tila Tequila. That was her era, I feel like.

Juno wins a choice movie comedy over super bad, kind of an upset, but like, good for Juno. Baby Mama, semi-pro, and of course, we all know the Seminole film College Road Trip with Martin Lawrence and Raven Simone. So, that. God love you, Teen Choice Awards. What a time. What a time. All right. Is there anything else we want to talk about?

In regards to the other Berlin Girl, before we get into the IMDB, a game. Oh, we could maybe spare a little moment to talk about the great Sandy Powell. You, okay, so I think I know what track you're on with the costumes in this movie that you're like, they're a lot sometimes. It feels a, not to be, not to call it costuming, but it does, it's, it does. They do kind of draw attention to themselves. way that it feels like the movie is relying on them and like has no point of view so they hire sandy powell to make some visual interest yeah like sandy powell is truly the goat yeah it is it is weird that she went for a statement green dress the year after atonement yeah like that's

a choice i mean it would have been the same year initially as atonement so it would have been like the year of the green dress right right Right. Oh, we were robbed of that story. There's a moment where Scarlett is sort of recuperating in her sick bet, and they bring Natalie back from France to babysit King Arthur's Dick, essentially. And she goes to visit her, and she's super mean. And at one point she just goes, do you feel as awful as you look? And I'm just like, the library is open. and she read her down.

That was very funny. The eye fucking scene in the dining hall. Oh, I thought it was funny that when Mary Boulin marries Benedict Cumberbatch's character, they referred to her very briefly as her name is Mary Kerry. His last name was Carrie. And famously, Mary Carrie was, of course, a porn star who ran for, I'm pretty sure governor of California at one point. So that made me chuckle.

Yeah, Mark Rylance and David Morrissey are like despicable at this movie. All of the research that I did on this movie, Mark Rylance absolutely hates this movie. Really? You can tell while watching it that he hates being there. It's been a while since I've seen a performance where you can just so plainly see that a performer is miserable. Yeah, it's true. I mean, Thomas Boulin is supposed to be this sort of, like, wretched, like, a piece of shit. But, yeah.

Also, every other time when, like, the girls are talking about, like, mom married for love and look at what fucking idiot she ended up with. Like, that's always kind of funny to me. What else? I think that was everything that I had written down. So, yeah, the other Boulin girl, worse than I remembered it. On Forch. Yeah. All right, do you want to play the IMDB game?

Heck yeah, let's do it. All right. Tell the people, tell the children what the IMDB game is. You guys, you guys, every week, we end our episodes with the IMDB game where we challenge each other with an actor or actress to try to guess the top four titles that IMDB says they are most known for. If any of those titles are television or voiceover work, we'll mention that up front. After two wrong guesses, we get the remaining titles release years as a clue. And if that's not enough, it just becomes a free-for-all of hints.

Yeah. That's what we do here. I am, D, B, game. Okay, so I'll give to you first, I believe. Oh, you have a plan, I believe. No, it's not really a plan. I just want to get in first. So, unlike me, I didn't go through the director route because Justin Chadwick doesn't have a ton to work with there.

but we mentioned earlier when we were talking about Scarlett Johansson that one of her 2008 movies that was actually really good was Vicki Christina Barcelona and good cast in that movie as almost all Woody Allen movies are one of the sort of this was a little bit of a breakout period for this guy he between 2008 and 2009 he played Rebecca Hall's husband in this film I'm going to give you you Chris Messina. My answer for best Chris, whenever that's stupid talking point comes back. It's a very good Chris Messina, love him, hot husband or boyfriend and things, yanking on the television screen, on my television screen in sharp objects. True. I refuse to acknowledge his blonde-headed era. No, it's a good era.

I love blonde-headed fuck boy Chris Messina and Harley Quinn. It's so good. Birds of Prey is so much fun, though. Okay. Messina. Lots to work with here quite a bit. This is going to be hard. Is there any television?

Nope. Okay. No sharp objects. No Mindy Project. Right. No The Sinner. Right. No six feet under where he shows up at the end and Mary's Claire.

Oh. Okay. well, I'm going to have to say Julian Julia. No, and it's the fact that Julia and Julia doesn't show up for as many people as it should show up for on IMVB game

is a flaw in that website. That movie's been on Netflix for a while, and like people have been... It was a quarantine comfort watch so early in quarantine for me. Yeah. Okay. This is really throwing me already then.

It's also that he's in a lot of He's in a lot of ensembles. He's like, he's like 10th build in a lot of things. Like, I just thought of Argo. I'm just going to say Argo. Best Picture winner. Correct. Probably there. Yep. That's stupid. It is, but there it is. I watched the trailer for Argo last night for whatever reason. I was, because I was. It's a good trailer. Yeah. I was looking up Ben Affleck for something else, and I watched it. And it says, I remember it being a good trailer, a better trailer than it was. But like, I forgot that

like the end of it is like Aerosmith's Dream On and I'm just like, why? Like, what the fuck is going on? But it's not even like a gritty, slowed down acoustic cover of Dream On. No, it's just regular Dream On. It's weird. It's super weird. Yeah. That's going to be to like, I don't know, whatever the hell. That'll happen someday. Okay. Okay. M-Sina. What else is he in? He's just one of those Entomble actors. He was just in She Dies Tomorrow. I don't think

that's going to be there, but he's good in it. Jamon Adams is great in it. Correct. He is in he's in a way we go. I'm going to guess that just to get my ears. Well, you're not going to get your ears because you're right.

He is away we go. It's one of his known for. This is getting weird. He's really. good in a way we go, though. He has like two scenes. Everybody's good in that movie. That's my favorite part of that movie is him and Melanie Linsky in Montreal. I adore that scene, those scenes so much. Yeah. Um, okay. What else am I remembering him being in? Uh, well, we, wait, you said Vigy Christina Barcelona. I'm going to say Vigy Christina Barcelona. No. Strangely enough,

not that. All right. So that's two strikes. You're going to get your years. Your years are 2010 and 2012. Okay. So post Julie and Julia. Yes. One also the same year as Argo.

Correct. I wonder what that is. That one, I will say I don't remember him being in this. He's like, how many down? One, two. Oh, weirdly he's third build,

but I don't remember him a ton in it. Huh. The direct, the, uh, from the, how do I phrase this without giving it away? Um, written by the lead actress in it, starring a couple. And the lead actress is a couple with the person and they star in the movie. Yes.

And the directorial pedigree. is from a best picture nominee that wasn't a best director nominee. It's Ruby Sparks. I was trying to get around saying directors because I'm like, well, that I'll give it away. I could tell you were trying to get around saying that. All right, I gave it away. Yeah, Jonathan Dayton and Valerie Ferris from Miletus Sunshine directed Ruby Sparks. A movie that is better than its reception.

I thought Ruby Sparks was a more interesting movie than it got credit for. Did you like it? Weird stuff in that movie. Yeah, I remember liking it. It's one of those movies that you think it's the bad thing. thing and then it becomes a commentary on the bad thing that you think it is. Exactly. Yeah, yeah. And I

think a lot of people just sort of stopped at the first part and didn't really bother to latch on to the second part, which is too bad. Yeah, seek that out. Paul Dano and Zoe Kazan and Ruby Sparks. Okay, so your last one.

2010, I'm pretty sure he's like the lead in it, but it is sort of like the lead of a small little ensemble. Yeah, he's first build. Oh, well, that's why he's

Yeah. Why it's probably on his IMDB. Yeah. The director of this movie doesn't really make an impression, but it's the producer of this movie that was really notable at the time. Is it like a

Jerry Bruckheimer produced movie? No, not that. Once I tell you the story of it, you'll get it right away. But it was a movie where the producer of this movie had been a little bit out of the spotlight for a few years. And his association with this movie made people incredulous. Like, is this somebody who we didn't want around, and that's why they weren't there? When this trailer played in theaters and this producer's name appeared in the credit, people laughed a lot.

Okay. So it's kind of someone who's a punchline. Yes, and definitely at the time, because the movie has last... At the time, are they not a punchline anymore? To some people they are. In fact, two wide audiences. Some, like, it's very, it's one of those things where, like, if you appreciate the wavelength that he's on, you are into it. You don't like this person's last several movies, and the fact that I'm super excited for his next movie is a little bit lost on you.

Oh, it's a M. Night Shyamalan. Yeah. Fucking old. No. I cannot freaking wait to see that movie. I will watch old until I am old. I will be old by the time I am

sick and tired of talking about old. Listen, I am grateful for the movie old just to be titled old because it's going to give us a lot of jokes that will make me very happy because I am very what, stupid. I'm so excited for old. Okay, but M. Night Chamaulamalan produced this,

didn't direct it. Yes. 2010 He did He produced a couple movies, I think I can only remember the elevator one I was going to say the poster for this movie Which I didn't see.

It's an upside, is pretty cool, it's an elevator door that you can see light coming from behind it in the shape of an upside down cross which I find very cool. Oh, it's called devil. It's called devil. It's a movie.

How stupid is the movie? that's a bunch of people stuck in an elevator and one of them is secretly the devil and I was so into that premise and it's not a good movie unfortunately directed by John Eric Dowdell who had done I want to say the American quarantine the remake of that Spanish movie REC and that movie The Poughkeepsie tapes that like never came out. Ah yes. Do you remember? Yeah, devil wasn't. good, but oh, I want a devil to be good. He also directed As Above So Below, which I feel like...

Which also people hated? Yeah, but like got a weird nomination somewhere at like... No, maybe didn't. I feel like for so... Oh, no, you know what? As Above So Below shows up on somebody's IMDB game. That's what it is. Oh, it's...

Our friend and former guest Tara Ariano texted me recently and was just like, you will not fucking believe who's on Ben Feldman's known for. it's like the most unwell thing ever and one of them is as above so below that's what I was thinking of and I was like what the fuck are you even talking about

although now I look at it and it's changed since she asked me because now at least one of them makes a little bit more sense yeah anyway all right hit me with yours cool okay so for you I did actually go down the Justin Chadwick route

like you said not a lot of options there I did pull up Idris Elba for Mandela Long Walk to Freedom which if you want to talk about wild I am known for as IMDB games

Idris Elba's about made me fall out of my chair because like justice for Idris Elba's IMDB it's beasts of no nation should be there makes sense the losers I feel like the losers

has showed up on somebody else's as well, and then just like, why? Thor Ragnarok, which, like, I like Ragnarok, but come on, better for Idris Elba, and then Star Trek Beyond, which I like as well, fully forgot he's the villain in that movie. He is the villain in that, yeah, it's true. Yeah, that's insane that, like, I mean, I get that, like, the wire was a long time ago, but, like, it's really weird that the wire,

or Luther, I guess, even, uh, isn't one of them. Yeah, weird. Everybody was watching Molly's game. put Molly's game on there. A movie I don't like, but like... Or put Obsessed on there, because Obsessed is an important film of our time. Anyway,

I actually went into Justin Chadwick's TV route, the one that got him probably the job on other Bolein girl. Charles Dickens's Bleak House, which he did a mini-series of, and one of its headliners was Gillian Anderson.

Yeah, she got a lot of good reviews for that. Okay. I am also challenging you on this because I wanted to do something we haven't really had much of. She has three TV roles. All right. I was going to say, how much TV? All right. One of them is the X-Files.

It is the X-Files. Is one of them already the crown? No. Okay. Is one of them Hannibal? No. Okay. So I'm giving you your years, which means TV, I will give the years that they aired.

one of them is 2013 to 2016 Another is just 2005 And then the movie is 2006 Is the movie the last king of Scotland? It is the last king of Scotland People forget that she's in that movie All right 2005, is that what you said?

Yes Is that Bleak House? It's Bleak House I didn't realize that if I gave you years It would get a lot easier Yeah Um, yeah, TV years, it does get a lot easier. Okay, what's the other one?

Uh, two, uh, you only have one left. It's 2013 to 2016. Okay. I feel like that's too soon for the fall. I feel like the fall was when I was working at Decider, but I could be wrong. Now I'm trying to think of what other TV. It's too early for American gods. Um.

Is this something obvious that people are going to be yelling at their phones that I might be yelling, but I don't know if it's because it's obvious. Oh, no. I don't know what that means. Okay. It means I'm an asshole. It means I'm being an asshole. Is it the fall? It's the fall.

For some reason, I thought that was later than that by a few years. Okay. Also starring the sensation of many sensations in Barb and Stargo to Vista Del Mar. Dornan. Jamie Dornan is very, very funny in Barb and Star go to Vista Del Mar. He is not as funny as all of the cameos, which are all like A-plus stellar, and I'm not going to say what they are, but like, they're so good. The piano man in Barb and Star, I think, is one of my, like, top three things in Barbin Star.

There's so much to love in that movie. It is a real tit flapper. The fact that Kristen Whig at moments in that movie looks so much like Vera Farminga, freaks me out, but like you'll get it when you see it. And Kate Blanchett. I keep seeing people saying she's Kate Blanchett. Oh, it's, all I see is Vera. It's very funny. Like, every third line reading from Annie Momolo is so funny. Just, just the inflection she puts on it is amazing. Next time we're together and we're just like walking somewhere, I'm just going to grab you and be like, oh, shells. Something like that.

It's really, really good. Okay. Yeah, Barb and Star go to Vista Del Mar. If you have not already, do yourself the world's biggest favor and watch that. All right. Good IMDB games. Good times. Great IMDB game.

All right. That is our episode, though. If you want more of this at Oscar Buzz, you can check out the Tumblr at this had oscarbuzz.com. You should also follow our Twitter account at Had underscore Oscar underscore Buzz. Christopher, where can the listeners find you and your stuff? You can find me on Twitter.com at Chris V-File. That's F-E-I-L, also on letterboxed under the same name. Cool. I am also on Twitter at Joe Reed, Reed-spelled R-E-I-D. I'm on letterboxed as well as Joe Reed, read-spelled the same way. We would like to thank Kyle Cummings for his fantastic artwork and Dave Gonzalez and Gavin Mevious for their technical guidance.

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