This Had Oscar Buzz - 135 – The House of the Spirits

Episode Date: March 8, 2021

By today’s standards, this week’s film stands out for its gobsmacking cast of Meryl streep, Gleen Close, Jeremy Irons, Antonio Banderas, and Winona Ryder. But back in the 90s, The House of the Spirits caught attention as both an adaptation of Isabel Allende’s beloved novel and the biggest acquisition Miramax had ever landed. Set over decades in … Continue reading "135 – The House of the Spirits"

Uh-oh, wrong house. No, the right house. I didn't get that! We want to talk to Marilyn Hacks. I'm from Canada. I'm from Canada water. These crowning moments of life, between a husband and wife, family and friends, citizen and country, change the world forever. Miramax Films proudly presents the motion picture event of the year, from the novel.

by Isabella Yende, the House of the Spirits. Merrill Streep, Jeremy Irons, Glenn Close, Winona Ryder, Antonio Banderas, and Vanessa Redgrave. The House of the Spirits. Hello and welcome to the This Had Oscar Buzz podcast, the only podcast that's currently staring back at you with our big, freaky Tim Burton eyes. Every week on This Had Oscar Buzz,

we'll be talking about a different movie that once upon a time had Lofty Academy Award aspirations, but for some reason or another, it all went wrong. The Oscar hopes died, and we are here to perform the autopsy. I'm your host, Joe Reed. I'm here, as always, with my ghostly sister-in-law, Chris Fyle. Hello, Chris. Your ghostly sister-in-law, who maybe wants to fuck you,

probably wants to fuck my brother, who you're married to. Definitely, at least, just wants to, like, curl up in bed and, like, sleep, right? Like, that's sort of Glenn's vibe of this. At least that. The one sort of funny scene in the movie that I think was supposed to be funny, that was funny, was Glenn Close in the confessional at church, where she sort of confesses this thing about she has these sort of like quasi-obsessed feelings about Merrill Streep's character, her sister-in-law, yada, yada, yada, she, she, and then the priest is just like, I'm sure you're fine. like it's whatever and then and then she just goes wait i'm not finished she's like but i haven't even gotten to and then she starts to the part about she talks about how she was looking at them while they were having sex and then the priest is like tell me more my child it's it's so weird

and horny just for sort of like that moment in a movie that like i feel like could be hornier and like and sometimes you want it to be less horny but like for the most part like it's a very stayed film? It's definitely the best stretch of the movie. Like, that's probably the best scene in the movie, the most, like, interesting on both a character level and on, I guess, a puerile level. Because everything else is really, really dull. I was saying when I watched it, that I was talking to a friend about it, and it's, it's like, if it wasn't so... It would be way more dull and, like, just the type of thing that we're struggling to find things to talk about if it wasn't so embarrassing.

Yes. And, like, in a very specific way that we certainly will get into. Like, it's mostly bad in, like, a really boring way, where it's just like, oh, you're just, like, not interesting. But then, like, the overarching thing that's bad about it is so mind-bogglingly. like, you can't believe that it's bad in this way. And it was bad in this way in, like, the 90s. Like, this isn't like the 70s or something like that. I'm sure a lot of our listeners don't even know what the fuck this movie is.

Right. And there's a reason for that because... We should do the plot description pretty early this week because, like... I agree. Yeah, okay. Well, the thing that makes it so embarrassing is the reason why this movie is probably wiped off the face of the earth for the most part. Like, it's available, but like... Oh, it's available, and it's a poster that's, when you're sort of scrolling through titles, I always noticed it at video

stores, and I always noticed it sort of when scrolling through things like Amazon titles or something like that, because the poster is like, oh, all of the biggest movie stars, not even movie stars, but like all the biggest, like, actors, actors of the early 90s where it's like Merrill, Glenn Close, Jeremy Irons, Winona Ryder, Antonio Banderas, and it's just like, how is this movie with this star-studded cast this invisible? Like, not that lot. Like, it went invisible pretty quickly after it was made. I mean, partly is because it's really just not a good movie.

And, like, it's some of the most, like, the biggest besmirches on some of these people's entire resumes are one of them. But, like, it's a floating head poster, right? Like, I don't know what I expected this movie to be, but it certainly wasn't what it was. Well, and the title is also promising something that the movie doesn't deliver. Very much. But it's also like, while it doesn't deliver what it promises, I'm still not sure what it promises. Like, it's not quite like a promise of like a ghost thing, but it's like, it's just mood. It's a candle movie.

Like, it promises. Yeah, they're all lit by like, soft. soft, soft, warm candlelight in this poster. The scent that the House of the Spirit's poster is advertising is like summer mysticism or, you know, fire side on we. But also, they're so, there's these, like, they're floating heads in sort of like a, like, a five-angled pattern or whatever. And, like, some of them, you can see, like, you can see Merrill.

like neck and like collar and hands and you can see bandaris's collar and like you can see Winona's like neck and whatever but then like glen close Jeremy Irons is like looking over a cape or something right like Jeremy Irons is like shrouded from like the lower lip on down and like Glenn Close as fully just like you've cut her head out of something and you were about to to place it on something or she's just like a floaty ghost head and that sort of like plays into what the movie is about, too. She's the, she's the undersea, like, tubular ghost from the abyss and her head is at the end of it. This poster could as easily be advertising, like, a roundtable discussion as it could be a movie.

I want to see what this actual photo shoot was that they used to do this Photoshop of, like, nothing. So you hadn't seen this movie before we watched it. for the podcast either, right? I had not. So what was your... I didn't know what it was about. I think I'd heard, like, vague things of it being really bad. I've heard multiple people say that it's Meryl Streep's worst performance.

I've... I had no idea that it was about a Chilean revolution. This is a movie that... Well, it isn't until it is. Like, it really, like... That's true. Back... The three acts of this movie are three very, very different movies.

Yes. This is the movie... This is a movie that asks the very deep thought-provoking question. What if Meryl Streep, Glenn Close, and Winona Ryder were Chilean? Yeah, it really does. And it really makes you ponder that. Okay, so wait. So before we jump into that, because we will jump into that,

what was your awareness of this movie when you were younger, if anything? The poster. Just the poster. Just the poster that it was like an actress movie. movie, but, like, you would never see it referenced in, like, interviews or anything. I mean, even as a failure, you don't really hear about this movie referenced. Right. That's the thing.

It's never, like, it was never really a punchline. It just sort of got, like, really swept under the rug. And given the talent involved, that's surprising. So, let's do the plot description now and just, like, get it out of the way. Because, as you mentioned, like, most of our listeners will not have seen this movie at all. So we want to sort of bring you in as to what we're talking about. We are, of course, talking about the House of the Spirits, which is technically a 1993 movie, but did not make it into America until the spring of 1994. It was released sort of in Europe in the fall of 93, but it opened April 1st, 1994 in the U.S.

It is direct- Very Goya's Ghosts. Right, yes. Directed by- So much of Goya's Ghosts during this. It's not, I didn't, but now that you mention it, I'm like, oh, I probably should have. directed by the Danish filmmaker, Billy August, also written by Billy August based on the novel by Isabella Allende, which was like a pretty, like, acclaimed novel, and certainly a very acclaimed novelist, Isabella Allende, starring Merrill Streep, Jeremy Irons, Winona Ryder, Glenn Close, Antonio Banderas, Maria Conchita Alonzo, Vincent Gallo, we'll get into it, Vanessa Redgrave. It's with Armin Mueller Stahl and Vanessa Redgrave. That's the other thing, is I texted you, while I'm watching it because the very first actor title card, it's all five of the main actors on one title card spaced out in like these very, I said the agents must have really gotten

their money's worth because the placing of everybody's name is all just sort of just like spaced out five ways. It's like a five way tie for who's the lead of this movie. It's kind of fair because it is somewhat a shared movie. Like it's very, each of the three sections of this movie are very disparate but also unequally balanced. and who they follow. I mean, I think the true lead of the movie is Jeremy Irons, unfortunately. I mean, kind of, yeah, he's the most, he's the most consistent through line through the whole movie. He's the one, even though it's Winona's sort of voiceover that ties the whole movie together, which we'll get

into that also. But with Armand Mueller Stahl and Vanessa Redgrave, it also stars Terry Polo, who you may remember from the Meet the Parents movies, or in my case, from latter season West Wing, where she played the eventual first lady married to Jimmy Smith's. Grace Gummer is kind of the main character for the first 15 minutes of this movie. Young Merrill. Young Merrill, of course.

This is Grace's film debut. Serita Chodery also shows up in a very unfortunate scene and the movie's handling of that is something we will probably talk about at some point.

It's an amazing cast. It is an amazing cast and a director who was like real real hot at the moment which we'll also talk about so it was a lot of talent to go so incredibly wrong Chris

I'm going to give you 60 seconds and you can explain just what happens going to do as much as I can to fit in 60 seconds I feel like this movie probably needs like a 90 second handicap on top of it to get to all of it

There's a lot of movie it's also two hours and 20 minutes long so yeah it's there's a lot to it. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Are you ready, though? I think so. All right, 60 seconds on the clock. I'm hitting start now. Okay, so we're following Clara, who is a young child at the beginning. She is clairvoyant. She can tell when somebody's going to die. Her sister ends up dying. And meanwhile, her, the man she was promised to Esteban, he goes and starts a hacienda to, like, build up his own wealth to, like, get to the family, whatever.

eventually he meets the older Clara after he has accrued some wealth he marries her she's been taking a vow of silence but as soon as she marries him drops it meanwhile his sister his sister Farala moves in with them and becomes like very close to Clara

she ends up kind of being obsessed with both of them he banishes her away after they have a child that child is Alba who he even sends Alba away because she's like becoming friends with people of a lower class. Ten seconds.

She comes, Alba comes back and there's, Esteban is going to be a conservative candidate. He loses. Alba is in love with a child that she was friends with. That's time. I couldn't even get all of it with cutting like every possible corner. Also,

I'm pretty sure Winona's character's name is Blanca and her daughter is Alba. Okay. Very confusing because like you see everybody at different ages too. I couldn't keep track of it. Yes. So, anyway, she's in love with Antonio Banderas, who they were children together. He, his father worked at the Hacienda, so it's like, Esteban was like, no. Esabon, meanwhile, is also a tyrant, and he's like, oh, yeah, raping Sarita Chowdhury, like, in the first ten minutes of the movie.

With literally just, like, almost like a throwaway scene, it's just like he's outriding his horse, and then he just, like, abducts her and has his way with her. It's just like. It's awful. And then she is, like, asking him for money. Like, this is your son throughout. The son grows up to be Vincent Gallo, who, like, is leading the revolution. And when he'd shown up while Winona Ryder was a child, he, like, almost molests her. And then eventually does when she's taken in by the revolution because, like, they're, like,

they're against Jeremy Irons and they don't realize that she is, you know, supportive of the people's party. Right. Gallo is sort of with the, they never say Pinochet, but like the Pinochet people. He's sort of rooting out to the socialists. And Antonio Banderas, who like, for the first of many times is playing a workers' party rabble rouser in South America. Like, I feel like he's really, he carved a niche there.

didn't even realize it because he had started to with the House of the Spirits, obviously continuing that trend with Evita. Yeah, so... Also, the only person who is in this main cast, who is not white playing Chilean, and he's Spanish. And he's Spanish. Exactly.

Well, yeah, that's the other thing. It's just like, even when... What the fuck? They cast non-white people in this film, it's like, well, we're going to cast, like, Sarita chowdery and it's just like well okay um but like serita is also not chilean so it's just like it's

and again right she's of indian descent so it's this and part of me the generous part of me the sort of the uh the person willing to put out the benefit of the doubt was initially like because the other thing was isabella yende was like very very resistant to having anybody adapt to this for a while and ultimately billy august was like the one one person who's like vision, she, you know, latched on to. And I was like, is there a statement being made about colonialism and sort of Western, sort of white Western interventionalism in that we're going to cast, because it's not just that the stars of this movie are white. They're the whitest white people. Like, they really are just like, and I was just like, is there a statement

being made about like. Even the entire thing still has its problems because like, this is, a narrative that is rooted in a Chilean national identity, right? And, like, you could, I mean, like, I've seen arguments that, like, Antonio Banderas is considered by some to be white Spanish. Right. And it's like, but, like, this is truly about a national identity on top of it. That's, like, very intrinsic to what this is about. But I was like, is there a chance that Billy August is trying to,

in casting white people as the sort of wealthy landowning, sort of politically obtuse, brutalizing, sort of ruling class characters. And I'm just like, and then casting, you know, different people as the, you know, the workers on the hacienda or whatever. To kind of create this subtextual divide in a way? But I couldn't sell myself on that. I really, I tried to for a second. But like, there's really, he's not really making that statement. really the movie doesn't really support that reading of it and I just want to say I try

these like secondary characters aren't cast correctly like that's what I mean is the point it's so flimsy because because then you wouldn't cast Vincent Gallo as you know Sarita Chodary's son which is just like I will say he's so objectionable I find him so objectionable Vincent Gallo out of the way noted Trump supporter of Vincent Gallo oh I didn't even realize that It doesn't surprise me at all. He would be only believably cast person. Oh, my God. As potential, you know,

skeezy child rape as Vincent Gallop. I mean, he's certainly like, but this is also like Vincent Gallo like five full years before Buffalo 66. Like there is, like he's not known as anybody. Roger Ebert fully like misidentifies him in the review. I said I wasn't going to bring up Roger Ebert's inaccurate review. riddled with inaccuracies review.

God love, and may he rest, Roger Ebert. I mean, like, it's a profession you shouldn't have those type of inaccuracies in a review, but, like, when I read it, I was like, I kind of get it. Like, at a certain point, your brain kind of checks out in this movie. Yeah. He does mention in the review that Isabella Allende, he identified her as the widow of Salvador Allende, who was the president of Chile, that gave way to the Pinochet coup in Chile. I am by no means a scholar on Latin American recent history. But she, Isabelle

Allende is the second cousin. I think her father was the cousin of Salvador Allende. She was not married to him. Although I think the confusion there, I think the confusion there was that Salvador Allende's wife was also named Isabel. So like, understandable perhaps. We didn't have Wikipedia in 1993. We didn't. And listen, that's all I'm going on. So it's not like I am some brilliant, like I said, Latin American scholar or anything. But anyway, it feels like there's a lot of things that just wouldn't have gotten off of the ground floor now that we're able to sort of flourish.

I think especially because you were, you know, working with a European filmmaker and also the fact that, like, Allende is such a, she's so sort of respected and revered as a novelist, that there's sort of a, a kind of, oh, well, this is just very literary. You know what I mean? So the idea that we have this main character who is a, you know, a brutal, you know, rapist earlier in the movie. And yet we're still meant to sort of follow his life story. And by the end, be kind of, be kind of. of sort of heartwormed a little bit by the fact that he came around enough to like shuttle Antonio Banderas's character out of the country into like the Canadian embassy or whatever. And I'm just like by any modern standard that wouldn't be possible today in a film, just like it wouldn't be even conceivable to cast a movie about so much about, you know, the Chilean people with like, again, the whitest of white actors. I mean, I'm not sure that I would buy the character arc even in a novel.

No, me neither. It's a lot to ask of the audience. But, like, this movie couldn't do it more, like, sloppily. It's definitely is the type of movie you can tell is from, like, a great novel where they're trying to fit everything in. And, like, even in two hours and 20 minutes, like, it's so, like, thin in terms of all these characterizations and like these huge passages of time. Right. But the other thing about this novel is that it is like one of the things it is most known for is it's being it's a magical realist novel.

And the moments in this movie where you're reminded that Merrill Streep's character has sort of these like supernatural qualities to her, they come and go so. like isolated from everything else and so much time goes in between those moments that doesn't really connect it and you're just like oh right why is that table levitating oh right because she can make the table levitate and it's very um Amanda

Cyfrid's boobs being able to tell when it's raining like Clara can tell when someone has died when they've already died but only if they're in her family and then sometimes she can make some shit move on a table Right. And like, that's the extent of it. The one time I think it's effective in the movie is when you see Glenn Close show up at the house and everyone can see her and she's already dead and she doesn't speak a word and whatever. And then Merrill just very sort of dramatically just goes like, wait, what is her day? Ferrella. Ferrela has died. Ferrela has died.

And it, the movie is only like sporadically even interested in it. And yet you have to. have this movie called House of the Spirits, and it's just like, oh, so you expect that there is going to be some sort of, like, ghostly through line through it. And obviously, in the novel, I imagine that the magical realism of it relates and, like, ties into the themes of Chilean history and sort of South American politics and all this sort of stuff. But, like, that doesn't come through in the film at all. It just seems like these really isolated incidents of, like, Merrill Streep's character is a little freaky. Well, and Clara is probably the least interesting character of all of these leads.

Oh, not probably. Like, most its... Her clairvoyance feels like a bug and not a feature. I get why people may say that, like, this is Merrill's worst performance, but, like, she doesn't have a character to work with at all, at all. Okay, but there's, like, the scene where she's aged with her granddaughter, and she's trying to put the star on top of a Christmas tree, and fully just like fumbles and fumbles back into a table

and knocks over the things in a table and then sits in a chair and says to her granddaughter, I believe I'm beginning to leave the earth or something. There's also the moment where... It is maybe the most embarrassing scene I have ever seen Merrill Give. It's very bad. There's also the scene where Jeremy Irons' character as her husband sort of backhands her in anger.

And she like flails against the wall and sort of, like, dramatically kind of, like, swoons to the floor. And I'm just like, oh, wow. Like, this is very movement class at the actor studio or something like that. I don't know. I can't really say it's her worst performance. It doesn't... It's not her best, but, like...

It doesn't stop Florence Foster Jenkins, flofo, or topsy. Oh, how rude. For me, as like a... You're so rude. I will not accept that. Topsy forever. Her scene in Mary Poppins is horrible. It's a delight.

I don't mean to be overly bitchy or blunt here, but like I hated it. But like in terms of individual acting beats, like I understand the people who think that this is Merrill's worst performance. I will say I almost need her and Jeremy Irons to make another movie together just so they can get it right. because the French lieutenant's woman is also bad. And it's just like, at some point, Merrill and Jeremy have to make a good movie together. I need to see that. It's, I mean, I know it got her an Oscar nomination,

and I'm sure some people like it, but I had no patience for it whatsoever, just whatsoever. What did you think of Winona Ryder in this movie? I mean, I felt like she probably had what would have been, the more dull character from a script perspective, but I found her at least, like, compellingly normal. Because, like, her stretch of the movie is really the last third, right? It's like, it's Glenn Close's movie.

She's voicing over the whole thing. Sort of, yeah, she gives voiceover to the whole thing. The voiceover I did not think was good, but the performance I thought was, like, at least watchable to the point where I would have maybe zoned out at this point, but, like, she kept me in the movie. This is an incredibly sort of important era of Winona Ryder's career, where she got her first, obviously, like, the sort of late 80s, early 90s,

like teen stuff, your beetle juices, your mermaids, you're all of that. But then, like, 93, 94, where she gets the Oscar nomination in 93 for the Age of Innocence. And then 94, she stars in Reality Bites. which is like a big hit and sort of a generation-defining kind of a film. And then Little Women, which is another period piece, where she gets another Oscar nomination for Best Actress this time. Kind of like the last-minute surprise Oscar nomination. And then in the midst of all of that is this film where she is sort of placed on a level with

Merrill Streep, Glenn Close, Jeremy Irons, like the tops of the top of the top. tops, right? She's right there with them. It's interesting that she got both of her Oscar nominations are for period pieces, and she's great in both of those movies. I have no quarrel with either one of them. If she had won the Oscar in either one of those two categories, I would have been perfectly fine and actually really happy because it sort of feels cosmically correct that Winona should have an Oscar now in retrospect. I find her so modern in her sensibility. that especially in this movie,

even though she's not really, it's not a costume drama for her, she's playing a character who's like a young woman in like, probably what, the 70s? 60s. 60s, something like that? 30 years before it was set,

but that's like, you know, somebody now giving a young woman performance for a movie set in the 90s, you know? Right. But she comes across so every time, like, I don't know what it is, but like Winona Ryder with that haircut and a pair of jeans, I'm just like, okay, well, she's going down to the gas station to dance to my Sharona with her friends. You know what I mean? It's just like, I can't separate it. And I think the voiceover is the same thing where it's just sort of less like, oh, it's just like it's, it's Winona Ryder writing in her journal in Heathers or something like that. It's. Well, I mean, her, her career is kind of this balance between more like, uber modern like things that.

maybe is more representative of her persona or what we think her persona is and a lot of period pieces too because like before even these movies you mentioned there's Bram Stoker's Dracula which I think she's great in and like giving exactly what that movie needs

and basically functions even though it's Dracula functions as a period piece as well yeah I need to every time I watch that movie I have a little bit of a different take on Winona I think a lot of it is that she's in so many scenes with Keanu, and I think Keanu is so miscast in that film. And he is another actor

who always seems very 90s to me, no matter what, and especially at that time. And I kind of disagree that he's miscast. I think it's kind of the movie's point that he's kind of a feckless boob in it. I get feckless boob, but like he's so out of place and out of time in that thing. And I, like, I don't know. But it makes it work, though. I mean, I don't know. Even if you say he's bad. Like, the fact that he is bad makes the whole dynamic work. It certainly doesn't derail the movie, which I think is one of the great movies of the 1990s. But anyway, we're sort of... We're getting far afield. That was the phrase I was going to use.

My God, it's almost like we have a psychic connection. It's almost like I've watched you have sex with my brother. Okay. All right. The Jeremy irons of it all for like one second. For as much as the casting is insane And the character he's playing is unworkable I think he gives a pretty good performance in this film I think he's pretty dreadful I think he gets progressively dreadful

I love Jeremy Irons So we should talk about Jeremy Irons But this performance like I kept thinking as the movie went on They say that when you age Your nose and your ears never stop growing right? Well, he is playing a man who his upper jaw never stops growing. The teeth, man. The teeth. And like, okay, yes, they are all playing Chilean. I think with the exception of, like, the hair dye going wild in this movie, including Glenn Close, who will talk about. I want to talk about her performance.

Yes. He's really the only one that you feel like they're really trying to do like a brown face. And as part of it is, an aging makeup. And I feel like... That's what I think it is. I think it's the aging makeup. And it's like, it's not, like, there's definitely like some bronzer element to it. But it, to me, for his problem, like, it's already problematic casting. So, like, you're not going to get away from it. But, like, I don't think they doubled down on it by going too, um, dark for, for lack of a better and less horrifying term. But yeah. Well, okay, so I love Jeremy Irons,

even though, like, he's said and retracted some really, like, gross shit in recent years. Oh, God. But I think as an actor, I do love a lot of his work. And I can't really think of another analog of a, like, prestige actor, you know, the kind of performer that we look at in highfalutin terms, who almost exclusively plays, like, psychopaths and sexual deviance. Right. So, okay. this will transition me into talking about this era of his career being like he's at the top of his profession he's sort of how remember you know how we sort of like talk about Daniel Day Lewis now and it's just like Daniel Day Lewis and like he was sort of that where it was like Dead Ringers in 88 the um he didn't get nominated for that one but I remember when he won this is the they would have never done that right no but when he won for reversal of fortune just a couple years later, I remember he like mentioned, I think in one of

his speeches, whether it was like the Oscar speech or maybe he mentions Kronenberg. And mentions how sort of like he wouldn't have gotten the Oscar without sort of the momentum that Dead Ringers had sort of given him, which is one of those, you know, things that we Oscar people talk about a lot, about how sometimes even if somebody doesn't get a nomination for something. Sort of like Paul Giamatti doesn't get the Cinderella Man nomination if he doesn't have the momentum from the sideways nomination that didn't happen. And then he's in Damage in 92, which gets a nomination for Miranda Richardson,

but is also like a pretty well-regarded film. M. Butterfly, 1993. 94 is a big year. House of the Spirits gets released, and that's not the part that's big. The big part for him is, of course, he's the voice of Scar and the Lion King, which is, you know, a world's...

His finest work as a psychopath and or sexual deviant. Yes, basically, true. he's the main villain in Die Hard with a Vengeance in 95 And then he makes the The Lolita remake in 1997 So again, once again, falling under your rubric And then Sort of starts to

Fade from there I feel like that the Lolita movie Is sort of like the last big sort of hurrah for him In films for a good long while he'll show up in things like kingdom of heaven or being julia he's pretty good in inland empire i will say there's a long stretch where he just kind of becomes like well regarded but seen as hammy because he's in like genre stuff for a while right right it felt like he got another like boon in appreciation if that's even the right word um when watchman came out oh

absolutely. I was going to bring that up. He's fantastic in Watchman. And I love that, especially when it comes at the same time where he's playing Alfred in the DC Batman movies, Justice League movies. And it's just like, oh, that's such a bummer that's sort of like that's where we've decided that Jeremy Irons' career is now. But like the fact that at that same time he gets this role in Watchman, which is he gets to be really, he's villainous, but also. sort of like cheeky and also sort of mischievous in a way that like was surprising for that character, I think. Well, and it feels like a return to like the true Jeremy Irons that like we love where it's like it's this compelling villain versus like, I don't want to say phoned in, but I guess phoned in performance in things like Justice League. He was in Red Sparrow, that Jennifer Lawrence movie that's completely falling off the Right. Even when he was doing like the Borgas, right?

Oh, right. Which like, we talked about the Tudors recently on Showtime, but that was another showtime series. Showtime period sex shows. Yeah, exactly, exactly. The other one I want to shout out too, because I'm me, is he's in Beautiful Creatures, the sort of Y.A. supernatural movie that I always talk about loving with Alden Aaron Reich and Alice Englert. but he and Emma Thompson are both in that movie doing things with a southern accent that no person should do. And yet it's so, like the casting of the sort of elders in that movie where it's like it's Irons and Thompson sort of going toe to toe with their insane accents. Margot Martindale wearing full birds on her head as hats. Eileen Atkins is in it. Viola Davis is there lending gravitas to the whole thing. It's absolutely, when I say you should go see beautiful creatures, I'm really not kidding.

I'm not being like ironic or whatever and trying to trick you into seeing something bad. It is a goddamn delight. So that's all I will say about that. Also, what's her face? Emmy Rossum is a freaking hoot in that movie. Like, she's amazing. Anyway, or anyway. Jeremy Irons.

Okay, talk about Glenn Close. You love Glenn Close in this movie. Listeners think that I hate her. I don't hate her. I've just spoken very loudly about performances of hers. I don't like. This performance, I think she is great in this movie. To the point where it's like she dies at the end of the first section of the movie, right?

And the movie, that's when it's already not good, but it fully falls off once she's not in the story anymore. she is playing the like biggest downer in all of South America in this film like every time you sort of check in on her it's just like especially when she's first introduced where she's just like she's Jeremy Irons's sad sister she's the one who's just like mother's not doing well today like that kind of thing she's just like she doesn't smile she wears all black she's dressed like she's in mourning like she literally is dressed in all black the entire time she's on screen all times. And then you sort of, then Merrill gets introduced into the mix and she becomes, like, obsessed with her. And you sort of think, oh, no, this is going to be some, like, weird stalkery. Like, she's going to end up killing Merrill, isn't she? And it's not that. And you see her kind of, there's that scene where they're playing badminton on the lawn. And Irons's character is getting frustrated because he doesn't like that his wife and his sister are so close. But, like, you're seeing Farrella sort of come out of her shell a little bit, and she's

having fun, she's laughing, whatever, and it's just like, who is this once-dour creature or whatever? And it's really kind of lovely to see. And she's still dressed in all black, but it's like, oh, she has a piece of, like, white jewelry on. Maybe she's happy now. Right, exactly. I was talking to Mark of Dublin Zootrope about this movie, and he said Glenn Close is in, like, Mrs. Danvers mode.

Yeah. And that is absolutely spot on. It's a good mode. It's a good mode for her. Yeah. I enjoyed her in this movie as well. I think Clare Close is the only person who knows what temperature of performance this movie needs of the entire cast. But also, she's one of the few who's given, like, a real kind of character.

with a lot of angles and a lot of meat to the bones there. Like, there's a lot to hold on to with that. And she gets that scene towards the end of her time in the film, where she curses Esteban, her brother. I don't know. It's really well done. Yeah, she's great. Yeah. I've said before that, like, in some of her bad performances,

it's like she's on an island from the rest of the movie. Right. And I think that's true of this one, but instead of, like, giving a performance that the movie doesn't need, she's the one who's right, and it's like, this is what the movie should be. Right. It's also wild to see her and Merrill in a movie together. This was the first of two movies that not only they did together,

but it's the second of two movies they did together that we've covered. This is, by the way, our seventh, or sorry, our eighth Merrill Street movie on this at Oscar Buzz. She is by far our most, she's our busiest actress. Well, her, Matt Damon, and Claire Danes can all duke it out. We've almost exhausted Claire Danes, but it'll be a battle royale between Maryland and Matt Damon. So, evening is the other one that they would do together many, many years after this movie. But the thing that's funny about Glenn Close is her sort of her kind of celebrated futility with Oscar, right? Seven nominations, no wins.

And at some point, along the line, before the Albert Knob's nomination, I would say even, there was this sense of like, Glenn Close is the goofess and Merrill is the gallant, right? Where like Merrill had won multiple Oscars. Through the 80s, it was sort of like they were the two big, like most nominated. I would guess I don't have any, you know, facts and figures to back that up. but I would imagine the two most nominated actresses of the 80s. And Merrill, of course, is a two-time winner by that point. And Glenn isn't.

And I sort of, you get it in your head that, like, oh, Merrill kept beating Glenn. And it's not really the case. They've only ever been nominated in the same category twice. First time in 87, Glenn is nominated for Fatal Attraction. Merrill is nominated for Ironweed. They both lose to share, although... so they both lose, but Merrill seems like more of the winner because Merrill knew she wasn't winning and is so happy for Cher when Cher gets announced.

Meanwhile, Glenn did have a chance to win and didn't. And that was her, like, fourth nomination in five years and really, or maybe fourth nomination in six years. Anyway, the weight of all of those losses, I think, was sort of being felt on her. She never really, like, she never scowls or anything. But you get the sense that, like, oh, that one was probably tough on Glenn. And then they don't get nominated in the same category again until she's nominated for Albert Knobbs in 2011. That's the year that Merrill beats her. That's the one where, like, Merrill wins for the Iron Lady. But I do feel like there was already the sense that, like, oh, Glenn keeps losing to Merrill. And it's odd that that

that's sort of how cosmically it felt. Am I the only one who thought that, or is that just my psychosis at work? I think weirdly, and some of it is because of misogyny, they get pitted against each other. Yeah. I mean, there's been outspokenness in, like, interviews from a lot of actresses. And I think Glenn has been one of them, though not one of the most outspoken, that, like, they just can't get the roles that Merrill gets, you know? Or, like, Merrill, they've lost roles to Merrill or things like that. I watch a lot of those, for whatever reason, I've been on a YouTube kick of YouTube keeps suggesting to me different speeches from the different AFI tributes.

Usually it's either the Mike Nichols tribute or the Merrill Streep tribute, and it's a lot of the same people in that. And all the ones where people are talking about Merrill, I know Tracy Ellman mentions it, and I think maybe Carrie Fisher maybe mentions it about just like Merrill gets all the roles. There's nothing left for anybody else. because Merrill gets it. Like, it's one of those things where everybody sort of talks about it in good humor, but it's definitely a real thing. That, like, nobody else over 50 gets anything

because Merrill gets offered everything. And Merrill likes to work. Like, Merrill takes all these roles because Merrill likes to work. So, yeah, you can sense that there is... I mean, there's not... It's a rivalry that's maybe not a rivalry. Like, they're clearly friends.

Merrill mentions, you know, her good friend Glenn Clinton. a lot. But I think we being sort of like, you know, gay bitches of the internet. It's sort of like the Nicole Kidman and Naomi Watts. I'm sure Nicole Kidman and Naomi Watts are like genuinely the loveliest best of friends. But we decide that we're going to turn them into sort of passive aggressive sisters. We're like Nicole's the one that everything good happens to and Naomi's the one that everything bad happens to because it's funnier essentially. And I think that's sort of what we had done with Glenn and Merrill for years there, right?

Well, and like this whole, it's a two-pronged thing to me. A, I have no staking claim in this because the year that they, that Merrill beat Glenn Close, neither of those performances had any business being nominated. And then, like, you have this movie, the one where they're on screen together and Glenn Close, like, is blowing her off the screen. Yes. So, I don't know. This, it's also interesting because, like, we ascribe Glenn Close. close to the 80s in terms of a screen presence as an Oscar

presence. But like this period it's worth noting because like this is where if you look at her like IMDB page, it looks like the roles are kind of drying up for Glenn Close. But this is also when she was doing a lot of theater too. She was returning to the theater. Yes. I forget the exact dates, but like

this is around the time of Sunset Boulevard. She did Death and the Maiden at this time. Yeah. Yeah. That's a really good point. I don't think, like, I don't think Glenn Close's career is anything to turn up your nose at, like, in any regard. And I think that's a big part of the reason why she is still sort of getting

this push to, oh, she should win an Oscar. Well, she'll probably win this year. At this point, we're recording before the Globes. We did say that a couple years ago, and at this point, I'm not counting chickens until they're. Well, I mean, I was the naysayer because I hated the movie, and I

didn't like the performance. Most people assume she's going to run. I feel stronger. year than I felt that year. Okay. All right. Well, we're marking that down. We'll see. Maybe who knows, we'll beat her at the globes and the rest, and I could be very, very wrong. So this movie was an early Miramax movie. They acquired it in like early 1993 while it was still filming. And it was, the variety article that I read about it said it was the big, biggest acquisition of Miramaxes to that date. And the director, Billy August, at this point, is an incredibly sort of hot foreign director,

where he had directed a film called Pele the Conqueror in 1988. It gets not only, it wins the Palm Door, it wins the Oscar for Best Foreign Language film, which is a clip I watched just before we started today, presented by Jacqueline Beset, Candace Bergen, and glomming on for, like, the clout of it all, Jack Valenti. It's just like, just go away, Jack. Candice's hair is so high in this clip. It's quite lovely.

I'll put it on our Tumblr page. Yeah, for sure. So Pele of the Conqueror wins, not only, like I said, wins the Palm, wins the Oscar for Foreign Language Film, gets in best actor nomination for Max von Sieda. So, like, at a time when, like, foreign language nominations, I mean, they're still rare today. They're rare.

So it's pretty good. And then 1992, he wins the palm door again for a film in a row. Right, for a film called The Best Intention. So, like, this is his movie coming off of his second Palm Door. So, like, clearly, even though this movie ends up being released in April, which I have to imagine is sort of a nod to, partially a nod to the fact that the film isn't any good, but partially, it's also, like, Miramax would make early in the year releases try to work for them, especially in their earlier years. So, like, it's not, maybe not the sign of the fact that they didn't have at this earmarked for awards, because obviously they did. In the announcement that Miramax had acquired it, they talk about Billy August's two palm doors and talk about the sort of Oscar pedigrees of,

all of its stars. Like, this had kind of all of the earmarks going in. Billy August's career is interesting. He's a Danish filmmaker. He, like I said, like, not a lot of people have won two Palm Dors in their career. So, like, that's pretty amazing. Only one I can think of off the top of my head, at least for two in a row is Michael Hanukkah. There's other people who have won two.

There have, but it's like, it's a pretty limited group of people, though, I will say. Later in the 90s, after the House of the Spirits, he directs Julia Ormond in Smilla's Sense of Snow, a film I know as a title, quite like things to do in Denver when you're dead. It's the sort of Euro, fancy European things to do in Denver when you're dead for me. I never want to watch Smilla's Sense of Snow because I don't want it to be anything more than a title.

That movie needs to stay a construct to me. You need it to be as pure as snow in your brain. And then he, of course, nobody remembers this movie, but us, I think. We will eventually do this movie. The 1998 non-musical Le Miserables, which stars Liam Nissen as Jean Valjean, Jeffrey Rush is Javert, Uma Thurman is Fantine, Claire Danes. God, it'll be another Claire Danes for us, as Cosette.

And just based on the novel, just like no singing, no dancing, no nothing. and that was, I think, got a good bit of publicity in America. I got a good push and didn't do anything, sort of like died on the vine. And then the only other movie since the 1998 Limasarab that I even ended up hearing about, he kept making movies since then. But he makes a movie in 2017 called Fifty Five Five Steps, starring Hillary Swank and Helena Bonham Carter, that all I know of it was that it was at the Toronto Film Festival. that year. And I kept sort of hovering over it, like, I know this is probably not going to be good or not going to be a thing. But like, it's Hillary Swank and Helena Bonham Carter in a Billy August film. Like, maybe I should have a shot. It's like one of those movies. That's like the second Thursday gala. It's like the Rob Reiner LBJ movie. And it's just like, I know I shouldn't, but maybe I should. And then ultimately I don't. And so 55 steps will remain a mystery to me as well.

Do you have any Billy August sort of associations? I don't. I should probably watch Pele the Conqueror, though. I was thinking the same thing. It's funny because... I'm trying to go through, like, 80s Oscar, like, wins, because, like, that was a huge decade of, like, blind spots for me for major Oscar wins and, like, major nominations. And it's proven to be a miserable experience.

Yeah, the 80s and Oscar, with everything except for the best original song category, is really bad. Yeah. I just finally caught up to the accidental tourist with Gina Davis's wind, and that movie blows. Yeah, it's not good. For all the talent in that movie, Kathleen Turner and Gina Davis, for it to be that sort of, like, dull and kind of unpleasant is, yeah. The thing about Pelley the Conqueror is you read the log. line. And it's just like, it's about Max Foncito and his like 12 year old kid going from like Sweden to Denmark looking to sort of improve their lives as farm laborers. And it's just like on

its face, it's just like, oh, that seems like it could be like, you know, this sort of adorable father and son sort of, you know, persevering movie. No, but it's like a miserableist movie, isn't it? Well, it's got to be because it won the palm. Like I'm like, it can't be that saccharine if it won the palm dora. It's not like colia or something like that, right? But yeah, I've never seen it before. But the fact that Billy August did win

two palm doors kind of inspired me. I made a game for you, Chris. I'm going to put you through the alter ego's paces again. Oh, hell yeah. So alter egos is our game where I name three characters from films or television. And then Chris, has to guess what movie the actors who played all those characters were in together. So I'm

going to give you 10 of these. All of the answers for these will be films that have won the Palm Door at Cannes. I should maybe mention that. I keep saying Palm Door, like everybody, like this is the top prize at the Cannes Film Festival. You probably know. But if you don't, it's fine. All right. So all 10 of these are going to be Palm Door winners. Are you ready? I am very excited. Okay, I'm going to take a sip in my water before we start. All right, your very first one, your three characters are Vito Corleone, Ellie Arrowway, and Mr. White.

Okay, so Mr. White. Yes. Well, Vita Corleone is either Bobby De Niro or Brando. Ellie Carraway, I know that one. Arrowway, not Carraway. Arrowway. Ah. Mr. White, I think, is Harvey Kytel in Reservoir Dog, so it's got to be taxi driver.

It is taxi driver. Any guess who Dr. Ellie Arrowway is? Sybil Shepard? It's not. It's Jody Foster. Oh, no, no, no. That's Jody Foster in contact. In contact, yes.

So, yeah, De Niro is Vito Corleone. Harvey Keitel is Mr. White. You got it exactly. Very good. All right. Next one. Vito Corleone, Joseph Pulitzer. and Jed Bartlett.

Jed Bartway, what was the other two? I was talking to myself. Vito Corleone and Joseph Pulitzer, and then Jed Bartlett. Okay, so I'm guessing that it's going to be a Brando movie instead of De Niro. Ed Bartler. What was the middle name? Jed Bartlett, not Bartler. Jed Bartlett.

And then Joseph Pulitzer. Joseph Pulitzer. a bunch of dudes in a movie, I'm guessing, with Brando. Huh. Can I get some hints on the other two? Yeah, Joseph Pulitzer, what is that name sort of, what Bells? Pulitzer Prize. Right, so he's like, what's his profession, probably.

He's a writer. Yeah, but, like, more broadly, he's... A critic. No. If he's got the name, the prize named after him, he's probably sort of a big wig in that industry. So what does he probably, what does he probably own? Newspaper, journalist. Right, right, right.

So then he would employ people to perhaps get that newspaper out to people. Correct. And what would you call those people who go and deliver those newspapers? Newsies? Yes. Okay. I mean, Christian Bale is not the lead person in Newsies. Yeah, who's the fucking villain in Newsies? Yeah, that's the question.

I was not a Newsies kid, strangely enough. Jed Bartlett, by the way, is from television, and it's a television show I love that I'm guessing you've never seen if this didn't ring a bell for you. Oh, okay. Very prestigious television show that I adore to this day, even though a lot of people find a lot of people find it problematic and find its creator. I'm going to get this faster if I just think of Brando movies that won The Palm Door. Not Last Tango in Paris. I think on the waterfront got it.

Or it was At Can at least? Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no. It's Apocalypse Now. Yeah. Walk me through it. I just know that he's in it. So wait, oh, that's going to be embarrassing. Is Martin Sheen the TV character? Yes, Martin Sheen is Joe Bartlett.

Yeah, that's great. Yes, I've never... I watched maybe a few episodes of the West Wing. Joseph Pulitzer is Robert Duval in Newsies, my friend. Gotcha. Robert Duval. Okay, your next characters are Herb Stemple, Pops Racer, and Heda Hopper. Hedahopper's got to be Helen Mirren in Trumbo.

Not necessarily. Sure. Someone else has played Hedda Hopper. Perhaps on television. Oh, God. Why are you doing this to me? Okay. Herb Stemple and Pops Racer are your two others. Pops Racer. Is that like Speed Racer? Perhaps.

Go with it. I would say go with it. Okay. Speed Racer. in speed racer. Emil Hirsch is in speed racer. Not as pops. Oh, so someone is his dad in speed racer. Is it like Christopher Walken? Who's in that movie? It's the question that I'm asking you. I wonder if I could give you some easier ones

for these people. Hold on a second. Hedahopper is a television character from the last several years. I'm guessing it's Feud, which I didn't watch. Ah, you would have enjoyed Feud. Would I have? Yes, you would have. You absolutely would have. Okay. Who was in that show? It's not Catherine Zeta Jones, who I, you know, love.

Right. Was she played by, it's not Susan Sarandon, it's not Jessica Lange. Was she who Judy Davis played? Yes. Okay, Judy Davis. It's not going to be for a Woody, Allen movie that won the palm. Correct.

Was it was it Barton Fink? It was Barton Fink. Very good. Barton Fink. Herb Stemple was John Totoro in Quiz Show, of course. And John Goodman played Pops Racer and Speed Racer. Oh, maybe I should watch

Speed Racer. I keep wanting to, but I also feel like I don't have a proper viewing vessel for it. Everybody's just like, you got to see it on like the best quality, whatever else is going to be totally lost in you. And it's true because I initially saw it on like

a DVD on whatever crappy television I had when I was 20 years old, so, or 28 years old, I guess. God. Anyway, your next one, Jack Stanton, Dr. Pamela Isley, and John Shaft.

So this is, John Shaft, it's got to be Samuel L. Jackson. This has got to be Pulp Fiction. Yeah. Any guesses is the other ones? Travolta and Uma Thurman? Yes, but play the game here, my friends. Sorry. Sorry.

Okay, what were the names? Jack Stanton and Dr. Pamela Isley. Dr. Pamela Isley is for Uma Thurman. I mean, it's not... Is that her name? Her name before she's Boise and Ivy? Yes, that's her name before she's Poison Ivy.

Yeah. Couldn't think of another movie. where she's a doctor. Jack Stanton. Is that face-off? No, let's say it's Governor Jack Stanton. Oh, so primary colors. Primary colors, yes. All right, this next one is tough, so I'm giving you the credits as they are listed on IMDB, all right? So it is Barry Sheck Ultron and Carrie, parentheses, Wedding 1. Wedding 1 Yes

Carrie C-A-R-R-I-E Parentheses Wedding 1 Why am I forgetting who Ultron was Um This is like Hmm

I'm probably forgetting who Ultron was Because it's only one movie But it's a famous This casting was smart I remember It's not Willem Defoe but it's like Willem Defoe. You're not wrong there.

Or it's like Jeremy Irons, but it's not Jeremy Irons. It is... Why would somebody be captioned as Wedding One in a film? Four weddings and a funeral. Right. Hmm. So it's a British person... Is it?

Ooh? Maybe not. Um, okay, Ultron, it's one of those very serious sounding actors. It is a, um, um, James Spader. It's James Spader. Yes. Um, four weddings and a funeral. Has Andy McDowell in it?

Is it sex lies and videotape? It's sex lives and videotape. Yes. Great. Andy McDowell is Carrie Wedding 1 for our weddings in a funeral. James Spader is the voice of Ultron.

Barry Sheck, you would remember not too long ago on this very podcast, was Peter Gallagher. Peter Gallagher. All right. Next one. Donald Kaufman, Catherine Harris,

and George McFly. Okay, so Donald Kaufman is Nicholas Cage in adaptation. George McFly is Crispin Glover? Yes.

In Back to the Future. Who is the second name? Catherine Harris. Which sounds like a name that I know. But what Nicholas Cage movie has won the Palm Door? I feel like this is going to be embarrassing and people are yelling at me already. Crispin Glover. You're probably not going to get it with Crispin Glover, I don't think.

Okay, because is he just a small role? It's not leaving Las Vegas. That wasn't acting. It's not leaving Las Vegas, especially because Pulp Fiction won the poem that year. Right. No, wait, that was the next. Oh, no, no, no, no, no. Sorry, leaving Las Vegas was the next year, I'm wrong.

The second one is Laura Dern. This is Wild at Heart. Yeah, Laura Dern and what? Jurassic Park. No, recount. She played Florida Secretary of State Catherine Harris in the HBO film. That's the Jurassic Park. Jurassic Park, it's Ellie, whatever, sorry.

All right, next one. Chief Martin Brody, Grace Farrell, and Joan Crawford. Okay. Those first two names definitely ring a bell. Joan Crawford is, is that also TV?

Is that Jessica Lang? That's Jessica Lang. Cool. Say the first two again? Chief Brody. Chief Martin Brody Grace Farrell Martin Brody

Chief Brody That's like a 90s movie It's not Oh It's not a 90s movie Um Jessica Langue A movie that won

The Palm Door Grace Farrell is a character played by an actress who died this year who this property has been has existed in a few different iterations famously Oh What are things that keep getting sort of revived and remade a lot? Superhero movies.

Okay, or things that gay people like. Things that gay people like, uh, all about Eve. No, what are, things that gay people like that keep getting revived or remade a lot? Musicals. Yes. Grace, she died 30 years ago. Not that one. Not that one.

one from National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation. No. She's sort of a supporting character in this movie musical but like she's very likable. She gets to dance a lot, which

this actress was very well known for. Is it Anne Ryan King? It is Anne-Rine King from Annie. In Annie, the movie is all that jazz. Movie is all that jazz. Chief Brody is who? That is Jaws. That is Roy Scheider. It's Roy Scheider and Jaws. Yes, very

good. Not a 90s movie. Not a 90s movie, in fact. All right. Oh, God. Rest in Peace and Ryan King, all that jazz. Top five movies ever made. All right. This one, just know that I'm trying to fool you a little bit. All right.

Billy Jean King, Judas Ascariate, and Rogue. Okay, I'm guessing you're trying to confuse me with Billy Jean King, but Emma Stone has never been in a movie. That's won the pomp door. Correct.

Rogue has to be X-Men. Is it... I'm pretty sure this is the piano and Holly Hunter has played Billy Jean King on TV. Correct. And is Anna Pacquine's character... Does she play Rogue?

She does. Yes, very good. Billy Jean King is Holly Hunter in When Billy Beat Bobby, the television film. What was the Sam Neal role? It wasn't Sam Neal. It's Judas Ascariot is Harvey Kytel in The Last Temptation of Christ. That is right. That's right. Of course, I don't get the biblical one, but I can get rogue. All right. This one, it'll be interesting to see how this goes. This is also a little, let's say, challenging. John Gustafson, Loretta Lynn, and Lex Luthor.

Gustafson is Jack Lemon in the Grumpier's Old Men's movies. Correct. I knew you would get that one. What was the second? Loretta Lynn. Loretta Lynn. That is Sissy Spaceek and Coal Miner's Daughter. Is this, I think it's, is it Costa Gavris that directed this movie missing?

Yes, Costa Gavris is missing from 1982. Lex Luthor is. not from a film, but it is John Shea's character in Lois and Clark, the New Adventures of Superman. Spectacular. It's the only other cast member in missing I could find a recognizable role for. All right. Last one.

Cyclops. Achilles, Murph. It's Jessica Chastain is Murph. Achilles is Brad Pitt in Troy. Bob's, it can't be Sean Penn. Oh, no, it's Ty Sheridan, is in X-Men first class.

We are talking about the Tree of Life. The Tree of Life. Very good. All right, you did very well. Those were not universally easy ones. So another successful attempt at Alterigo's. Fantastic. I think that's probably the best I've ever done at that game.

Yeah, for sure. Well, once again, when I give you... And I tried not to cheat. like you say that I'm cheating if I just know the category I just it's it's a it's more fun to watch you work it out I will say um this is uh an inch the House of the Spirits bring it back to House of the Spirits this is pre-Antonio Banderas becoming a thing in the United States sort of just pre well it's Desperado was 95 right mm-hmm I mean to mainstream audiences he would have been at this point known most for Philadelphia, which comes out in 93,

but still he's most famous for the El Mottivar movies. Right. And also Madonna thirsting after him in Truth or Dare. But again, I think you're still talking about sort of like limited audiences, right? Like people who were into foreign language films or gay shit or Madonna, which is the same thing, knew who Antonio Banderas was. But you're right, Philadelphia was the most sort of mainstreamy crossover. into the United States at that point. It does feel like Desperado is the moment where, like, it really clicks for, like,

Antonio Banderas, leading actor in American films. He's not bad in this. Again, it sort of just made me think of him playing Che Guevara in Evita, but okay. Well, I mean, he and Winona Ryder don't particularly have any chemistry together. They do feel mismatched, but that doesn't feel. feel like their fault. No, I agree with that, yeah. It does feel like because Jeremy Irons' character is so evil that, like, the movie is, like, working very hard to just be like, Antonio Banderas is just playing a nice guy. Right. Pedro is just a nice guy. Right. What a

rabble rouser he is. You know what I mean? Like, that kind of a thing. Yeah. Um, yeah, I, I enjoy, I enjoyed sort of seeing him still sort of like, you know, young, especially because initially I was like, Antonio Banderas is too old for Winona writer in this movie. And I'm like, oh, no, he was very young now too. I think in my mind, Winona has sort of stayed eternally like 20 years old. And I've allowed Antonio Banderas to age in my mind because I've probably seen him in more things. There's like a 15 year period where Antonio Banderas is like crystallized as the same age. Right. But he's crystallized as like in his almost like late 30s, right? You know what I mean? And like Winona is crystallized as like just out of college. Like she never really for me aged much more than reality bites in my mind, even though she has sort of come back recently in things. Some of them good. Did you see the plot against America at all? I didn't. She's quite good in that. Because I know people love it. She's quite good in that, I will say. Everybody is. Zoe Kazan also very good in that. Not, I mean, again, that's one that, like, watching that movie during not only, like, pandemic lockdown, but, like, while Trump was still president and, like, it's sort of, you know,

it is a movie about creeping fascism that you're just like, oh, God, like, too real, too real. But here we are. So, yeah, House of the Spirits never really made it off of the launch pad. In 94, what did Miramax have going? for them in 94. It's interesting that while you pull that up, I do think, like, it's not surprising that their finger quotes biggest acquisition

up to that point happened now because, like, they are coming off of a lot of prestige successes. They're coming off of Oscar successes, like after the crying game, my left foot, you know, you see this progression happening for Miramax. And they were still very set on, sort of foreign language films and foreign language directors. They had sort of seen success with stuff like Farewell My Concubine or the Kislauski

Three Colors, films, that kind of a thing. Was that done? So it says on, I think they had some sort of hand in the American distribution of that because it's listed on their, as I say, Wikipedia page, which has become my crutch in this for better or for worse. So, my wayback machine is less and less helpful to us. Yeah. And so that was like 93-94 with Miramax as well.

94 is House of the Spirits for them. It is a little film called The Crow, which was Dimension slash Miramax. Oh, God, do you remember Little Buddha? The Keanu Reeves film, Little Buddha, the Bertolucci film? Yes. I haven't seen it, but I know it as a, I think, slightly problematic thing in the culture. That's been wiped off the face of the earth. Yes.

But of course, 94, we talked about it in the Palm Door game. The big one, the big dog on the block, is Pulp Fiction, which is, you know, obviously, almost sort of universally acknowledged as like second place to Forrest Gump that year. I've talked a lot about how that was a big Oscar sort of baptism for me is being very invested in the Pulp Fiction versus Forrest Gump of it all in 1994. But like other stuff that they have in 94, they have heavenly creatures, Peter Jackson's Heavenly Creatures, which gets a screenplay nomination at the Oscars that year. They have Mrs. Parker and the Vicious Circle, which doesn't get nominated, but, like, Jennifer Jason Lee is very much in the best actress sort of conversation critically, like among critics. They have Queen Margo, which is the Isabel Adjani Vincent Perez film.

Very violent. Yes. Also, I believe it won best actress at the Cannes Film Festival. that year, and it got a costume nomination. I know it got, like, one Oscar nomination, and I'm pretty sure it was costumes. Yeah, yeah. And then three colors red that year, again, whatever sort of, like, hand they had in that distribution, that gets a best director nomination in 94, which is, like, that was the big

sort of, before the surprise Almodivar talked to her nomination, there was a Kislauski getting... This would sort of happen every once in a while where a foreign language film director would get a surprise best director nomination without a best picture nominee. I can't off the top of my mind remember if this was also the case for Red, but a mode of our thing,

part of what fueled that director nomination and screenplay win, honestly, is, like, that was such a, like, critically revered movie, but Spain didn't submit it for foreign language. So, like, it helped kind of catapult those other categories that it maybe wouldn't have gotten otherwise. Other, though, like, this is not the end of the Miramax Oscar score, a story in 1994, though. Also, Tom and Viv, which gets actress and supporting actress nominations for Miranda Richardson and Rosemary Harris.

And Bullets Over Broadway is that year, which wins best supporting actress for Diane Weist, gets two more acting nominations, a directing nomination for Woody Allen, and probably was very close to getting a Best Picture nomination. So, like, they're all over the Oscar ballot this year. This is really, like, for as much as, you know, they had had some Oscar's success leading up to this, like 1994 is kind of the big Miramax coming out party as far as, like, being, like, a major, major contender. Mm-hmm.

Which is huge, which is huge for them. So, like, the writing was on the wall for the House of the Spirits already, kind of, even if it wasn't bad. It would have had a lot of competition in-house to... It's interesting to think about what could have happened if they had released it late 93. Yeah. Yeah.

Though, like, those actress races are considerably more competitive than they are in the year after. Yeah, 1993. Especially in lead. I don't know who you would run as a lead. Merrill. I think you'd run Merrill. and she wouldn't be nominated maybe in the 94 one because

like that's a historically unloved like a historically lean best actress race where Jessica Lang wins her second for Blue Sky a movie that is bad that she is in that had sat on a shelf for two years but I feel like we end up talking about that a lot and there were like you know

we've talked about Juliette Lewis and Natural Born killers we've talked we're going to We will at some point talk about Jennifer Jason Lee and Mrs. Parker in the Vicious Circle. Like, there were definitely other contenders there. We always sort of talk about how kind of bunk the 94 best actress category is or sort of like odd, I would say. And yet some really good actresses were sort of left out in the cold. And what's interesting for House of the Spirits, too, is that these two Oscar years that it kind of straddles, Winona Ryder is nominated at both.

Yes, 93 and 94. The other thing is, this is probably in the least successful slash respected era of Merrill Streep's entire career. And it lasts all of literally like three years. But like after Postcards from the Edge, which she gets nominated for in 1990, she makes defending your life, which people really like, but it wasn't like a hit. or anything like that. Death becomes her, which was like kind of maligned at the time, especially for her, and this was still like Merrill can't do comedy. We've talked about this before.

And then the River Wild, which gets her a Golden Globe nomination, but I think even at that time, it was seen as like Merrill. It was like a pot boiler, right? Merrill sort of like paying the bills, like playing an action hero for some reason, and people didn't, like critics, I don't think, really respected. it very much. And it took to the bridges of Madison County in 95 for her to sort of get back on the Oscar nomination train. And, like, because of what the novel was, it was seen as this like weepy junk, right? That she and Clint Eastwood eventually elevate when they, you know,

when people see the movie. Right. The 90s were the years of the, of Merrill sort of being the butt of, of a joke of, you know, she's the accent queen. She's whatever. And like, You still get a little bit of that now in the like Florence Foster Jenkins Iron Lady era, but that still is coupled with this respect of like, but she's also like the greatest, right? Whereas in the 90s, I think it was sort of chic to be like, oh, Merrill's boring, Merrill's not funny, Merrill only does accents and that kind of a thing. And House of the Spirits really feeds into all of those sort of nests. negative perceptions of where she was at that point.

It's sort of absurd to think of like, oh, she didn't get a nomination from 1990 to 1995, and it's like her longest stretch. Like, it's her longest stretch tied with, like, literally now. Like, literally from the post until now is also, like, that's the longest it's been since that stretch in the early 90s. That's the longest they've ever gone without nominating her. It's time. It's time to bring Merrill back to the Oscars.

Nothing happened with Let Them All Talk, which, like, I think is excluding maybe the post. My favorite performance of hers in a very long time, I think if people went and watched it again, they would see after like the twists of it, how fucking funny she is in that movie as this like pretentious writer who's also like, I won't like spoil what's going on. but also incredibly conscious of what that movie's trajectory is and not overplaying her hand in terms of, like, the character's emotion and the character's implications. Absolutely. But yes, nothing happened with that great movie. She has so many line readings that are like,

she really is just like she's the friend who like everything she says, you just are internally just like, oh my God, I cannot believe. That, like, she's so insufferable. Like, that kind of, it's just like, it's wonderful. She's so wonderful. All right. And I guess the reveal is that she is wonderful. Also, the glasses choice.

Like, there's these times where she's just, like, rambling on in this whisper. And she's, like, looking off into space. And the prescription of the glasses they gave her does just enough to make her, like, bug-eyed. And it's so funny to me. Yep. It's totally true. All right. Is there anything else you want to get into for House of the Spirits before we wind down?

I think we should get out of the House of Spirits. I'm just sort of like running through my notes as I was making them last night. She's saying, wait, I'm not finished to the priest. I mentioned that. Oh, God. Also during her recitation, when she's describing watching Jeremy I, and Meryl Streep have sex in this movie. She uses the phrase of the abundance of juices, which like...

Oh, yes, which I was like, madam. I also that, but also, like, sounds like the title of a really sort of, like, esoteric play that would, like, show up on Broadway in the thick of, like, Tony Award season, where it's just, like, also nominated Tyne Daily for The Abundance of Juice. And she's just, like, she plays a woman who, like, has, like, an apple juice. empire or something. You know what I mean? Where she like comes from nothing and she's sort of monologing about her difficulties making her way as an entrepreneur. Or it's like the Thomas Hardy version of the story of goop. The abundance of juices. That's like it's literal

juices. It's Gwyneth Paltrow with two dozen different types of juices. Oh my God. She also then follows that up with, she says, strange secret smells. I'm like, all right, horny lady. like so horny it's amazing strange secret smells like we get it you're a virgin it's fine

Smilla's sense of strange secret smells that's uh that was Meryl in the sequel or that was Glenn Close in the sequel um I also I just wrote down

also RIP Vanessa Redgrave with like five different exclamation points because like the scene where Merrill's parents die in this film is so, again, we talk about how the supernatural stuff, the magical realism comes and goes with really no rhyme or reason in this film. And so at some point, Merrill's just sort of sitting there. And then she has a flash of Vanessa Redgrave and

Armin Muellerstall in the car on their way to come visit. And the brakes go out. And like, Armin Muellerstall is like cranking the wheel left and right and he can't get him to stop. And he's just like, no. And then they cut to the car getting obliterated by a train and like going up in a giant fireball. And I'm like, I don't think this is supposed to be filmed for a laugh moment, but the timing of it absolutely makes it a laugh moment. Especially since it's a Vanessa Redgrave. It's literally like Toon's going over the cliff in the car and then the car sort of explodes into a fireball at the bottom. Like that's the level of comedic timing of the demise of Vanessa Redgrave and Armand Mueller-style in this film. It is, it's a lot.

I think my only final note is to bring up one of our This Hadd Oskarpa's conspiracy theories that we've revisited a few times whenever we talk about Glenn Close. She still only has fatal attraction on her known for. I know. It's amazing. I just, I refuse to believe that that is anything but intentional. It's a Stonehenge level mystery, though, in terms of just, like, who did that and how has it been allowed to persist? Because, like, Glenn has a team. She has managers and agents and publicists and, like, all of that.

And somebody's job is to make sure that her Wikipedia doesn't have lies in it. And I imagine that that same person's job has to be. making sure that IMDB isn't shading the fuck out of her by only giving her one known for. Well, you can't explain it on the algorithm even because, like, she has major movies. She has multiple Oscar nominations. She plays a Disney character, multiple Disney characters. She's on a Disney voice. She's Corella to Bill.

And the algorithm isn't for movies as long as they're known enough. It's like, no, they're the four most known, even if you've only made, like, six movies, the four that you're most known for will show up on here. Like, you know, child actors have a known for. Like, it's amazing. Reality show contestants have a known for. Yes, exactly, exactly right. All right.

Speaking of the IMDB known for, do you want to play the IMDB game? I think that sounds like a great idea. Guys, every week we end our episodes with the IMDB game where we challenge each other with an actor or actress to try to guess the top four titles that IMDB says that they are most known for. If any of those titles are television or voiceover work, we mentioned that up front. After two wrong guesses, we get the remaining titles release years as a clue. If that's not enough, it just becomes a free-for-all of hints, or, you know, maybe we look into someone who just has one movie on they're known for. That would be quite easy, yes. Yeah, we'll avoid that.

Bryce Dallas Howard also still only has three, but, okay, including gold. A movie I've still not seen. It's a movie I refuse to see unless it's for this podcast. Chris, would you like to go first or give first or guess first, I guess? You'd be going in that. I feel like I always say I want to go first, so I'll guess first. All right. So, all right, this one's going to be a little challenging, but I believe in you. Okay. obviously we're talking about director Billy August for this film we talked about his

Palm Door winning Oscar winning film Pelle the Conqueror starring best actor nominee Max Vonsido so why don't you take a shot at the known for for Max Vonsido? Ooh I don't know if this will be all that hard though maybe I could be naive because like Max von Sido he's in starry. Wars movies. He's a multiple Oscar nominee. I mean, well, maybe it would be hard because he's got decades of cinema. He does.

But I'm going to start it off with The Exorcist. This is where it gets crazy. Oh, get the fuck out of town. I know. I know. Wow. I mean, he's not first build. I think he, no, I think he's like second build in that movie.

Yeah. It's probably like Ellen Burstyn and then him. He's the titular exorcist. He is, in fact, the titular exorcist. Wow. Okay. I'm not going to guess that his nomination for Pele, the Conqueror, puts that in there. But I do think extremely loud and incredibly close is there.

You are correct. Extremely loud and incredibly close. Cool. Where he plays The Renter. I don't think. Because his Star Wars role is small. There's a million people in that movie. I feel like that's not going to show up.

And I think roles where he's like, the lead is going to show up. Or a significant role, like, he's like the evil entity or whatever and what dreams may come, right? I'm going to guess what dreams may come That is not a bad guess But that is incorrect His character in that is called the tracker Really The renter and the tracker in the same career

All right so that's two strikes So your remaining films to guess are Sorry give me a second Does I scroll back 1957, 1980, and 2002. Okay, so I was right about no Star Wars. I was right about no Pele, the Conqueror. 57 has to be a Bergman movie.

I think the most obvious is going to be seventh seal, so I'll say that. Correct the seventh seal. Very well-reasoned. O2 is a big year for movies. I know he's in minority report. which I feel like, you know, the algorithm loves Spielberg. I'll say Minority Report. Correct.

He is the antagonist in Minority Report. Sorry to spoil you on Minority Report. You know who the hero of Minority Report is? Lois Smith. Lois Smith, obviously. I threw Lois Smith on my last trivia quiz, and a lot of people got her, and I'm very happy about that. I do adore her. Um, okay, so

1980 Max van Cidal Is that Conan the Barbarian? No, but you're on the right, in the right milieu, sort of. Okay, so this is when he's doing like genre trash. Yes, yes. Okay.

Um, what the hell else was there? He's Blofeld, but that I think is later Uh, yes, not Blofeld I forget what one that is I just know he's

A Blofeld Never Say Never Again, 1983 Sure Yeah, like certain era A Bond movies, I can't tell those movies apart Um Unless it's like, Moonreicher Cults

culty um like you said like genre trash is a good sort of I think people seem to remember this fondly even though it also feels like I've never seen this movie so I don't know

to quite what level or something it's not Logan's run but again it feels like you're circling the thing I feel like it's not something I've seen it by all appearances seems pretty campy, and, again, having never seen it or being sort of part of that kind of fandom of it, I don't quite know for sure. He certainly seems to be playing a problematic kind of a role. Oh.

So he's not playing a white person, I'm guessing. Yeah, but it's unknown how much the sci-fi of it sort of ameliorates this. Again, I wish I was a little bit more schooled in... So it's got to be like spacey, right? Like it's outer space. Yep. Huh. And I'm guessing he's a villain.

Yes. He is in fact sort of looming over the poster of this movie. Great. It's a Dino DeLorentice production. Okay. With music by Queen. With music by Queen. Oh, it's a Mamma, Mamma, Flash Gordon.

It is Flash Gordon, 1980s. Flash Gordon, where he plays the character of the Emperor Ming with very kind of, as again, I would say, problematic implications there. Anyway, again, it's sci-fi. Who the hell knows? Maxifonito. Yeah, that's Maxifoncito. Make he rest. He passed, like, right before lockdown, if I'm remembering correctly.

Like, to the point where, like, it really got, like, lost, and he died on March 8th, 2020. So, like... Was he, like, the last person to die before the Oscars, or was he the first person to die after the Oscars? Oscars were in February still, so, yeah, it was after Oscars. That's right. May he rest. Okay, so for you, I actually went into the actress races for the years, I guess we're saying, of House of the Spirits. I mentioned that the lead actress race from 1994 is notoriously uncompetitive.

I went with a performer who actually did well for that season, but did not win for Tom and Viv, Miranda Richards. Ah, we mentioned it briefly, the Miramax distributed Tom and Viv. Okay, Miranda Richardson. You would think this would be pretty easy because, like, she's really mostly known for a handful of roles and not a ton else. Obviously, I love her from The Hours, but I'm guessing she's probably too minor of a character in The Hours,

although I reserve the right to go back on that. I'm going to say the crying game. Correct, the crying game. Where she's the big sort of poster actress of that film, even though she's really not in as much of it as you would think. She really does cut quite the figure, though, with that wig and sort of that expression on her face. Okay. Her two Oscar nominations are for Tom and Viv and Damage, and I don't know if either one of

of them are big enough. But again, I'm going to put a pin in those. I feel like she's like in, like at least one sort of big movie. Oh, well, she's in Harry Potter. Is it Harry Potter in the Goblet of Fire? It is not. Incorrect. Okay. Those are always a challenge. We used to have the rule about we would try to to avoid Harry Potter in the MCU. And I feel like less and less that those movies show up. I agree. I think that's absolutely the case for, I think, both of those franchises.

Which is nice, because now we can sort of dip into those pools again. Could also be that we're not, like, trying for people like Chris Evans and Chris Hemsworth. Right. I would. In a lot of contexts. Okay. Damage. I'm just going to guess damage.

Incorrect. Very rare to have a performer who multiple, if they have multiple Oscar nominations that you won't see one of their nominations in there. I think, unfortunately, for Miranda Richardson, both of her nominations are movies that just fully don't exist anywhere. I think it's even hard to get. They were small even at the time. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. All right.

Great actress, though. But your years are 1999, 2002, and 2002. Is one of the 2002 spider? Yes, it is. Weird. That's weird. She, I think, got a, like, a regional critics prize for that? She definitely did.

I still think, I mean, it's odd that damages, that damage and Tom and Viv doesn't show up, but Spider does. I guess the Cronenberg factor takes so. She's huge in that movie, though. She's, like, playing multiple characters. Yeah. It's a big performance. There's another 2002, and then what's the other year? 99.

1999. oh god am i missing something like major i mean you need to circle back to some things well 2002 is obviously the hours yes yes okay good for her good for her for showing up as venezabelle in the hours on her known for i love her for that i feel like some of the other secondary actresses in that movie though i think miranda richardson is actually

billed higher than they are like i think she's built higher than claire dain she's build higher than Tony Colette. Yeah, that's interesting. All right, 1999. Where was the Miranda Richardson experience in 1999? Obviously, this is well after even, like, Enchanted April. Is it American, or is it British? It's an American movie.

Okay. It's the director we've talked about recently. Okay. In a movie that I think is widely liked, but oddly gets left out of like 1999 conversations. Oh, right, I should think about that, like 1999 films. She actually has quite a few credits for 1999, including the voice of the lead in the animated King and I.

That is terrible. Oh, wow. That's interesting. All right. Was there a Gus Van Sant in 99? This is another performance of hers that is huge, and it's huge because there's a twist involved. Huh.

Oh, I'm really. Really? She's a villain that you don't know as the villain until the end of the movie. Is it like the other Avengers movie? No. No. No, you're getting pretty far afield. This is a movie.

I'm pretty sure it made $100 million or close to $100 million. I could be wrong there. Multiple Oscar nominations. Oh. Multiple Oscar nominations. a director we've talked about recently a director we've talked about recently okay wait a second very recently i'll get this very recently um oh god she is you're right she's in sleepy hollow yes sleepy hollow rules i gotta see it again it's been so long i totally forgot that she was in that

yes very recently in terms of like last week recently yes um all right that's a very interesting known for for Miranda. You should watch Leapy Hollow next a minute that you have two hours of downtime. I think you'll enjoy it. All right. I promise I will do that. All right. Good episode on the House of the Spirits. As to our listeners, should you seek this movie out? It's not streaming for free anywhere, so I would probably suggest not paying for it.

Yes. I don't know if this is a movie. Support your local library systems. Find a copy of the DVD at your library. Sure. Yes. At the very very least for for Glenn Close's confessional. Yes. That's very funny. All right.

Otherwise, yeah, that is our episode. If you want more of this head oscarbuzz. You can check out the Tumblr at this head oscarbuzz.tumbler.com. You should also follow our Twitter account at had underscore Oscar underscore buzz. Chris, where can the listeners find you in your stuff? You can find my abundance of juices on Twitter.com at KrispyFile. That's F-E-I-L, also on Letterbox under the same name. God. My juices

are my tweets. Oh, my God. I am being horrified by all of it on Twitter at Joe Reed, read-spelled R-E-I-D. I'm also on letterboxed as Joe Reed, read-spelled the exact same way. We would like to thank Kyle Cummings for his fantastic artwork and Dave

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because that's how we do things with podcast reviews these days. And, yeah, say something nice about us, won't you? That is all for this week, but we hope we'll be back next week for more buzz. Bye-bye. I like shodding naked better over time. Do you know? They just say I'm not the baddest man, you lie. Ha ha ha ha.

Ain't my fault that I'm out here getting loose. Gotta blame it on the goose. Gotta blame it on my juice, baby. Ain't my fault that I'm out here making news. I'm the pudding in the proof. Got to blame it on my juice. Yeah, yeah, y'allee.