This Had Oscar Buzz - 138 – All the King’s Men

Episode Date: March 29, 2021

We’re finally getting around to one of the most notorious of aughts era failed awards plays, Steven Zaillian’s All the King’s Men. A remake of the former Best Picture winner and originally heavily predicted in the 2005 season, the adaptation was unceremoniously punted into the following year. The next September, the film had a disastrous debut … Continue reading "138 – All the King’s Men"

Uh-oh, wrong house. No, the right house. I didn't get that! We want to talk to Marilyn Hacks. I'm from Canada. I'm from Canada water. Jack. Seuss this fellow thinks Jesus Christ come down off the cross.

It's up to you to nail up any bastard. It's between you and the roads and the bridges and the schools and the food you need. You give me the hammer and I'll do it. Nail them! Nail them! Nall of us! Nail them! I tell you what I see. I see a man and had the guts to buck the powers to beat. I see no star the next governor of the great state of Louisiana.

Hello and welcome to the This Had Oscar Buzz podcast, the only podcast Living by Night and Dying by Sienna Miller's scheming. Every week on This Had Oscar Buzz, we'll be talking about a different movie that once upon a time had Lofty Academy Award aspirations, but for some reason or another, it all went wrong. The Oscar hopes died and we are here to perform the autopsy. I'm your host, Chris Fyle, and I'm here as always with my choice for governor, Joe Reed. Hello. I'm here to recruit you. No, that's the wrong. That's the wrong Sean Penn political rabble rouser.

I did write that down when I was watching this. I was like, he's going through, it's a lot. It feels in some ways like training wheels for Harvey Milk. Like his gesticulations seem sort of similar. They're much bigger in this one, weirdly, than they are. You could say that. It might be generous to just simply call it bigger. He's so, he played.

those like those speech scenes I wrote down did you ever see the the Wanda Sykes stand-up special right after Obama got elected in 08 where she's talking about how the media wants Michelle Obama to act and she's just like here's what they want it and she starts just sort of like waving her arms around and like hands on her hips and like classic like big loud like sassy whatever um that's what Sean Penn looks like in this movie is just like arms just gesticulating wildly and just like he can't it's very a lot. It's very, very a lot. You can see the syllables rolling around in his mouth.

He is so... Well, yeah, the accents are the other thing. Across the board in this film. Truly a real adventure. I mean, like, yes. The nightmarish poeticism of Sean Penn's Southern dialect in this movie

is a rollercoaster. It's not even the worst one, too. Like, kind of by far, there are people... Are you talking about James Gandelfini's Mississippi, by the way of Jersey? I am talking about James Gandalfini. I'm also talking about Jude Law, who is just not up for this whatsoever.

And, like, to the point where, like, Kate Winslet, who's like, American accent is usually pretty good except for when it, like, tries to do something. And I was very worried about her in this one, but just like she is the least of this movie's problems. She doesn't have anything to do, and I'm kind of mystified why she signed on to this movie, to begin with it. Yeah, like, she's the least of the movie's problems, but the movie is the most of her problems. It's... Yes, yes, that's a very good way to put it.

Like, they stage her in this movie, like, she's a ghost. It's... Yes. Right. If by the end of the movie, you all of a sudden got the reveal. that, like, she had died 30 years before this movie started. You were just like, yeah, okay, yeah, that tracks. Yep, of course.

It makes complete sense. She died when they were kids. Over, like, the middle of a dining table that she and she and she flaw are the opposite ends of. Why did that happen? Why was there a mosquito net on the middle of that table? That neither of them are under because, like, the cameras in, like, 15 different places in the room in that scene where you're like, okay, wait, where is this divide between the two of them? Like, the, oh, right.

man that scene drove me crazy i'm glad it drove you crazy too because i was just like what what's going on we're from the one angle it looks like it's between them and the other angle it looks like it's not between them and there's no real like there's no real reason for that little bit of visual uh off-kilteredness i yeah i couldn't i couldn't understand it okay so i'll confess i never saw the trailer for this movie so i was maybe unprepared for the level of like bad camera work bad dialects I must have seen the trailer

for this movie like a hundred times just because as I'm watching this movie all these little bits of different Sean Penn speeches I'm like alright that wasn't the trailer that wasn't the trailer I remember that one from the trailer I feel like this movie was very very

very much anticipated and we'll talk about that for sure it was anticipated from like a year and a half ahead of the time that it was released if not longer and so by the time, like, even a trailer came out. Right, right. Almost an entire year. But it was, like, all through early 1990, or 1995, 2005, that was, like, people were

really looking at that as being a big, big, heavy Oscar contender for a lot of the reasons we're going to get into, like, pedigree. It was all pedigree reasons that there was good buzzer out of it. On top of being a remake of the Best Picture winner. Well, yeah, that was, I mean, that's part of the whole package, right? and so by the time if the trailer came out and it had already been delayed

so there was all you know there was questions around it obviously and there was by the time it gets pushed back a year there's a lot of I think Titanic gave a lot of plausible deniability to like oh movies can get pushed back a year and they can still succeed gangs of New York sort of same thing but like this one

there was I think there was talk of like tests audiences didn't like it and yada yada which unsurprising given the final product But yeah, that trailer I remember being pretty well anticipated by like awards dorks like me

But like I'd also know You had seen this movie before, right? Oh yes, yeah. You had never seen it? I did not because Okay. And that's probably why I never watched a trailer Because when it cratered at TIF

When it finally opened And I looked it up too It was a world premiere on the Monday night Of that TIF Unless what I found on the internet is wrong which, like, now we know would probably spell certain doom for a world premiere on a Monday night.

Right, right. But then it gets released like two weeks later, a week or a week or so later, and I think it immediately left theaters. This is when I was in college and, like, I was in a smaller city, very small city. So it's like stuff didn't stick around. So, like, I never really had any impetus to watch it,

but we've known that we would do this movie for a while. And I was still kind of flabbergasted because I thought I was like, this is just going to be boring. This is going to be one of those movies where we're like trying to find things to talk about. But like, no, this movie's a fiasco. Yeah, it's bad. It's bad. Oh, God.

You know what I'm just realizing now? What? I've got the 60-second plot description and I have not prepared at all. So this is going to be very fun as I fully wing the plot for this. movie specifically it's going to be all off the top of my dome has no narrative arc whatsoever like it's a fairly incoherent movie because there's no like tonal peaks and valleys whatsoever it's either is shon pen yelling or not are you confused about who some of these side characters are or not yeah and like then the end which is kind of rushed well

And the movie's choice to sort of battle back against that or to, you know, alleviate that is to use a lot of flashbacks to itself or, like, pointed, you know, cutting to different characters. And it's just like, that's very inelegant and that's very, I feel like I'm sort of being, you know, held by the hand in certain things. And sometimes it's just like, okay, well, like, I didn't need to, you know, I didn't need that. Or, like, at the end, not to, like, jump ahead to the end, but when we're sort of told by the editing that Ruffalo's character was sort of put up to what he does at the end of the movie by Patricia Clarkson and James Gandalfini, it's done just by these, like, flashback voiceovers and cuts to those two characters at different points in the movie. and it's just like, you couldn't have done this a little bit more, you know, narratively, I don't know. It just, it felt very sloppy or blunt, I don't know, something. Very, not even, like, law and orderly, but, like, bad procedural show on, like, TBS or something. Right.

And it's just, like, just write Patricia Clarkson one more scene, like, we're happy with it. Even if you want to do the flashback thing, like, here's what you don't know, what's been going on behind the scenes. Like, give her a scene. Like, let us see something, for God's sake. Yeah. For God's sake. Yeah, this is just, it's not a good movie. It's a worst movie than I remember it being.

I think at the time, I was just like, oh, that's just like, you know, it's handsome and well-cast and whatever, and it's just not dynamic. And it's just like, it's all those things, all those things are true, but it's also just like, it's very. slow, and it's very kind of obvious. And it's also very weird to watch this movie in the wake of a populist U.S. president who, you know, used

that populism to terrible ends, and especially the way that, like, Steve Zalian in this movie, sort of ends this movie on this sort of heroic note for Willie Stark, and it's just like, wait a second, where are we supposed to think he's like the hero of the film?

Yeah. What's happening here? And, like, even then, the idea of a sort of, like, populist demagogue isn't a great idea. Like, it's based on, you know, a real-life figure, Huey Long in Louisiana, who was, like, a, you know, a populist and was sort of, like, to the left, new deal-wise of FDR even and whatever. But also was, you know, corrupt and, you know, on the take and all this sort of stuff. It's just like there's, to end the movie in, again, a flashback to a speech that Sean Penn's character gives in this very sort of heroic kind of like slow-mo into fade-to-black kind of thing. I was just like, woof, that is, that's a misread of the appeal, but also the heroicism of these kind of, you know, politicians like that, let's say. Yeah.

I'm glad we did this after the election. I will say that. Yes, I would have enjoyed this far, far. It would have given me much, much more anxiety, I think, if we had done this during the election campaign for sure. But, like, even, like, what was the one scene where he's just, like, nail him up? I'm like, nail him up sounds so, so, so close to lock her up in a way that it's just, like, I was not enjoying myself. Especially when you have it being delivered by, like, grand, grand,

Gignol, uh, Sean Penn. Sean Penn, uh, on one. So, under the top. Just like, where it's like, you know, maybe he doesn't sound like, um, uh, the evil one, but like just this, gore portraiture. I don't need, okay, so Sean Penn as a performer can be a little much. And like, I don't want to fully unpack his performance. before the plot description.

Right. But, like, I don't know if I've ever seen this level from him. It's the most over the top that I can think of. Like, even when Sean Penn is good, and I do think he is often very good, the ways that this movie reminded me of his performance in Milk, I kept just being like, oh, but he's so much better in Milk. Like, he's really, really good in that movie. I didn't think of that.

And honestly, like, I under, it's, like, truly, like, you could say the flip side, because I don't really feel like Sean Penn has much of, like, a gay affectation as milk. I think he's just, like, conjuring Harvey Milk in a really, uh, uh, convincing way. Yeah. But, like, this performance is, like, nothing but affectation. And it's like, right, right. I don't know. Maybe he learned some hard lessons from this movie that. made, like, those crowd scenes or those political maneuvering scenes and milk, like, he learned

the hard lesson of how not to push certain characteristics, I guess, maybe. If he would have made Harvey Milk the caricature to which he makes Willie Stark in this movie, we would, he'd be in jail. He'd be currently in jail right now. And rightfully so, given other things he's done in his life. But, like, it would have been, like, it would have been, like, It made me so, so, so thankful watching this movie. I'm just like, I'm so glad he learned to, like, modulate and calm down for, for exactly, you know, sort of what you're saying. It's a relief.

I'm relieved all these 13 years later. Oh, boy. I should watch that movie again soon. If nothing, if for nothing else, then to cleanse my palate from this nothing movie. Yeah. Um, all right. I want to get this plot description out of the way with it because now I'm, now I'm, now I'm nervous that I'm going to have to, I'm going to run out of steam like half the way through, but

we'll figure it out. We'll do it. I'm going to rely on you to get some of these narrative, like a, a straight line for some of these narrative friends. Because the movie is so, it's so scattered and like, yeah, we'll get into it. Once again, guys, we're here to talk about all the Kingsmen, the 2006 remake of the best picture winner, written and directed by. Steve Zalian, based on the novel by Robert Penn Warren, starring Sean Penn and all of his demons, I guess, Jude Law, Patricia Clarkson, James Gandalfini, Anthony Hopkins, Kate, Winslet, Mark Ruffalo, Tom McCarthy, looking like a babe, Kathy Baker, Jackie Earl Haley, movie premiered after much delay in Tiff of 2006, opened wide, September.

22nd of that month, and very, very promptly disappeared. Yes, very quickly. In a pretty interesting Oscar year that we should talk about, too, just in terms of how that year sort of shaped up. Oh, definitely, definitely. So, Joe, quick things that are about to happen, aside from all the Kingsmen leaving theaters, you're going to give us a 60-second plot description, even if it feels like an eternity to you, it will be quick for us.

Are you ready for your 60-second plot description of all the King's Men? Sure, let's do it. All right, your 60-second plot description of all the King's Men starts now. All right, Sean Penn is a local Louisiana politician named Willie Stark, who gets maneuvered by the local political machine to run for governor as a vote-splitting tactic, which he doesn't realize at first, and when he does, when he realized that James Gandalfini's character was manipulating him, he goes on the stump and sort of tears Gandalfi's. a new one and becomes this populist sort of groundswell leader, and he becomes, gets elected

governor. Jude Law, by the way, meanwhile, is this local newspaper reporter who starts following him and then starts working for him and sort of burnishing his legend. Meanwhile, Jude Law's childhood friends are Mark Ruffalo, who is a doctor and his sister, Kate Winslet, and they both want like hospital things and good things. And Kate Winslet starts to have an affair with Sean Penn, which we find out later, and Jude Law is very disillusioned by this. Meanwhile, Patricia Clarkson and James Gandalfini, who are both aides to Willie, and Patricia Clarkson plays his mistress, and they both get disillusioned by Stark because he's on the take and whatever, so they end up setting up Mark Ruffalo, who has been betrayed by him, to go and shoot him at the end of the

movie, and he kills Willie Stark, and it's a lot of other things happen. I didn't even mention Anthony Hopkins at all at all, at all, which is a big part of what gets Jude Law disillusioned by all of this. But anyway... I mean, it's maybe a big... Do you really need that character for him to get disillusioned by all of this, though? Like, that was a character to me that was like, you could cut this character. So much of that subplot is so, it's so melodramatic. The part where he has to go and tell Hopkins that he found out that he had, you know, whatever, cheated or blackmailed or something or other and led to the suicide of one of his political

opponents. And Hopkins is like into the drink and all disheveled and sort of making veiled threats at Jude Law. And then we find out that he kills himself the next day. And Kathy Baker then goes into Kathy Baker as Jude Law's mother is the most like histrionic like Medea on stage. Just sort of like, he was your daddy. You killed your father. It's so, it's very, very over the top. And I know that this is based on a novel and that it was making into a movie and all this stuff. But like you can cut

some things out and sort of streamline some things that maybe don't, that maybe play very, very melodramatically in 2006, let's say. Well, here's my thing about it, though. This is partly why I think that this movie is just like abhorrently directed. It's like all of these actors

are pitched really, really high and it's incredibly broad. And like, I could understand if it was going for, like, of the era and before of the original All the Kingsmen, you know, in a certain stylization, like an old Hollywood type of, I don't want to say campiness, but like just a completely different acting style that we have in the modern era, right? Like chasing that. But the problem otherwise is everything is so flat, boring, ugly to look at. there's almost like no stylization to the movie except for like gray tones and sepia tones. It's like fucking the Snyder cut or something in this movie.

It's so goddamn gray. Yes. So it's like it feels like all of the actors are bad when I feel like there is a certain style choice that they are being given that is not matched in the style of the movie. So it's like all these actors are getting hung out to dry. that, like, they need to be met on the same level for it to make sense. Yeah, no, I agree. I think the actors who come out best in this movie are, I mean, maybe just the one. I think Patricia Clarkson gives a really good performance in a way that I wish she was in it more.

I agree. I know in the lead-up to the movie, there was a lot of sort of light on her as a possibility for a supporting actress nomination because Mercedes MacCambridge in the original All the King's Men won Best Supporting Actress for playing that same role and I think even when the casting was announced and like obviously Kate Winslet's a bigger star than Patricia Clarkson but like people who sort of knew the role that Clarkson was taking was just like oh no it's her like she's got the she's got the plum role here this was the one that you know won an Oscar back in 1949

and then if you watch the movie and it's just like she's just not in enough. She's in maybe like four or five scenes, but, like, their short scenes and they're... Yeah, and it's just, like, it's mostly her and Jude Law, and she's really good, but it's not enough. And definitely, like, the movie, even though we've talked about how, like,

the movie does not serve Kate Winslet's character well at all, it still sort of sees her as, like, more important than Clarkson's character. And it's a shame, because I think Clarkson's the one who really, she's not going over the top Like everybody else is And I was trying to pay attention to the clock with Winslet Because she has that one scene Early in the movie with her

Ruffalo and Jude Law on the beach That's like a flashback And then I don't think she appears In the movie with like a real scene Until An hour into it Yeah it takes a while It takes a while for Winslet

And Ruffalo I think is pretty good In his stuff too but again, he's not in it very much at all either. You mentioned, like, why would Winslet do this movie earlier? And, like, I felt that very truly. And I also felt it kind of for Mark Ruffalo. It made me wonder if there's some longer cut of this movie that exists, where they are in it more significantly, because, like,

it's not, like, there's some ego thing. Like, why would you do this movie? But, like, they have these kind of nothing characters where it's, like, even if it's incredibly broad, like, everyone else has more to do than they do. Like, Tom McCarthy has more to do than Mark Ruffalo does. Yeah. Well, this was a period in Ruffalo's career where he was taking a lot of stuff, right? He was taking a lot of roles.

True. This was, he had just done, he had that small role in collateral, and then he had made a bunch of rom-coms where he had done 13 going on 30, and rumor has it, and just like heaven. and he had been part of a big ensemble in Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, which is another pretty small role in a big ensemble. And that works out really well for him, you know, even though he's not the movie, it's another Kate Winslet movie with him. He doesn't want to do an Eternal Sunshine than this, though. Oh, absolutely.

And it's more fun stuff. But like if you name four performers from Eternal Sunshine and the Spotless Mind, Ruffalo is probably not going to be one of the ones that you name. But that's really rewarding. for him. And so it's an, I feel like he's, you know, taking a lot of rules at this point in his career, even if not all of them really work. And yeah, this, I mean, I could see the appeal of, like, if, especially if he signs on after Penn and Law and Winslet are all signed on, I don't know. I don't know in what order all these people came out of the project. But I can see the appeal of

that. And again, it's a remake of a Best Picture winner. And Steve Zalian has this really, really strong reputation as at least a screenwriter. And also the fact that, like, the other, the, oh, he had done two, he had directed two other movies before all the Kingsmen. It was a civil action, which does pretty well and gets an Oscar nomination for Robert Duval. And Conrad Hall's cinematographer. Right. And then searching for Bobby Fisher, which is a phenomenal movie, just a really, really

wonderful movie. And, you know, also nominated for Conrad Hall. Right. Oh, fantastic Cinematargeting in that movie. So, like, I can see the appeal of just wanting to sort of, like, play in the sandbox with these people. And it ultimately doesn't serve him very well, which is too bad. But we should talk about Ruffalo, though, because this is our sixth Mark Ruffalo movie

that we've done on this podcast. He joins our Six-Timers Club. prestigiously. This is after we've done. where the wild things are and in the cut and Zodiac and 54 Surprise Mark Ruffalo movie 54

And then we've done Reservation Road Exactly And then we've done Reservation Road Semi recently as well And now film number six All the Kingsmen It's also our fifth James Gandalfini movie And our seventh Anthony Hopkins movie

So the cast members are really Come in Fast and Furious with this one um our fourth jude law movie only our fourth jude law yeah it's uh midnight in the garden of good and evil i heard huckabee's alfie and then this unless i'm missing anything but i don't think i am i think it's just maybe we've like hashed out his two thousand well yeah we've just like talked about it's 2004 a lot i think when we tease this episode a lot of people asked if we were doing sky captain is no it's not we could at some point we could um but so we induct our actors into our six-timers club, which, again, is very prestigious and honorable,

I make a little quiz for you about the films, about the six films that we've covered from these performers. So how would you like to take that little quiz right now? I say, lay it on me. Let's do that. All right. So a reminder, the films that we, that will be discussing in this quiz, are where the wild things are in the cut Zodiac 54 reservation road and all the king's men All right first question

Chris which three of those movies were released in October Where the Wild things are in the cut and not Zodiac not 54

not all the king's men so that leaves I'm already forgetting the movies Reservation Road Yes reservation road Correct. Correct on all three. Which made the most money? Which made the most money? Where the Wild Things Are. Domestic. Yes. Where the Wild Things are made the most domestic.

77.2 million. These are not a particularly lucrative set of films, all told. In terms of their theatrical cuts, which was the shortest? It could be 54, which I think is around the. 90-ish minute mark, so I'm going to say, uh, 54. You're correct, 54 at 93 minutes. If we are counting the director's cut for 54, what is the shortest? Would it then be Reservation Road? It's Reservation Road.

Yeah, 98 minutes, reservation road. Very, very good. All right. Which two were nominated for Hollywood Film Awards? All the Kingsmen. Yes. And Reservation Road For Jennifer Conley

For Jennifer Conley Very, very good Yes Which film was released On the same weekend as wild hogs And Black Snake Moan Oh no That is Zodiac

That's Zodiac Yep Yep March of 2007 was a wild time Which one is a Yeah seriously Which one is a Razzie nominee Um Ooh

54 is a two-time Razi nominee, including for our beloved Ellen Albertini Dow, which we've talked about how angry that made us, that nomination made us. You don't need me to tell the Razzies to burn in hell one more time. Which one made the National Border Review top 10 for its year? Zodiac. Yes, no, sorry. I was too soon. I was looking at another one.

Yes, not Zodiac. Not Zodiac. So where the wild things are? Where the wild things are. Correct. Yeah. Which one was shot by Dion Bebe. Um.

Was it this? All the Kingsmen? It was not all the Kingsmen. All the King's Men was shot by Pavel Edelman. No. Okay. Was it Reservation Road? It was not.

Reservation Road. Was it 54? No, it was in the cut. Jesus. In the cut, shot by Dionne B.D.B. Okay. Which one was nominated for a teen choice award? It was, I mean, I want to say, it's something crazy. It's, it should be where the wild things are, but I think it's Zodiac. It's Zodiac for Jake Jalenhall's performance. Yes. So weird. All the teens watching Zodiac.

which was released the same year as Mark Ruffalo's performance in View from the Top. Oh, okay. Didn't Gwyneth Paltrow lovingly refer to that movie as like View from My Ass or something? She's a delight and we love her. She hates that movie. That's like mid-aughts, I think. So is it all the Kingsmen? It's not all the Kingsmen.

is it in the cut it's in the cut 2003 yes all right which four were directed by oscar winners um all the king's men yep uh david fincher does not have an oscar so um in the cut yep where the wild things are and reservation road because terry george has a short oscar Very, very good. That's exactly what it is because he does not have technically the foreign language film Oscar. That does not go. And all the other directors have writing Oscars. And all the other directors have writing Oscars. Yeah, very good. All right. Final question. Mark Ruffalo and James Gandalfini co-starred in All the Kingsmen and Where the Wild Things are. And what third film that we have not covered yet, but we could?

Oh, it's a crime movie. It is not killing them softly, but it's something like that. I don't think you're on the right track. It's not collateral because that's Oscar nominated. I don't think you're quite on the right track. Oh, so is it not a crime movie? it's not quite a crime movie it's there's a bit more of a specific genre crime is sort of the precursor to this genre okay so it's it's gotta be like a um what comes after you commit a crime you go to jail right theoretically right um or you get caught um so is it it it's not a courtroom one it's got to be some type oh it's some uh uh uh with Robert Redford, the last castle.

The last castle with Robert Redford. Very, very good. Yes. Which we could definitely do, because that definitely had Oscar buzz. For sure, for sure. All right, very good. You have passed...

We talked about Redford before. We've talked about Redford. Yeah, with, of course, he was Einer, opposite Jennifer Lopez in the... Oh, and Truth as well. Yes, and truth as well. Yeah, we've done Redford. We could do Redford again, though.

Redford's an interesting and fun Oscar story. But anyway, well done on the Mark Ruffalo. quiz. Thank you. Very proud of you. Thank you very much. Let's talk about Steve Zalian for a second, though. So we said... Oscar winner for the screenplay of Schindler's List.

For Schindler's List. Yep. Absolutely. He's one of those writers who you look at his writing credits. And you have to really, like, dig into each movie to see whether is he the sole screenwriter? Is he one of, like, you know, many credited screenwriters, which meant he did either an early draft or a later draft. a lot of the time somebody they call in to, like, you know, save a script that is sort of faltering. It's just like, well, now we'll get the Steve Zalian version of it because he's so proven. And so, like, we've done Steve Zalian screenplay credits before. We've done Hannibal,

the 2001 Silence of the Lamb sequel, Hannibal. We've done Exodus Gods and Kings, of course, both of those being Ridley Scott movies. So, like, Zalian's phone number, it feels like, is on a lot of people's phones to just sort of just like when you're in trouble, when you need a hand. A lot of large ships, shall we say.

Yes. And like big name directors too, he was just nominated for the Irishman. Right. And that one he's got a sole screenplay credit on. It feels like that was Scorsese sort of went to him probably directly and was just like, you know, to adapt the book. You're my guy on this one. Yes, yes.

He did the screenplay for Awakenings in 1990 that got De Niro a Best Actor nomination for that one, the Penny Marshall film, Awakenings. I always forget that's a penny Marshall film. It's sort of atypical. In as much as she's directed very sort of like varied movies, but his first film was a John Schlesinger film, The Falcon and the Snowman, which was, of course, the prequel to the Falcon and the Winter Soldier, where Anthony Mackey gave

you all the clues, Mr. Policeman. That is the plot. Anthony Mackey hands just a gun to a snowman and he becomes the winter soldier. That's right. The snowman is the original winter soldier for sure.

Yeah, it's an interesting, it's a very interesting filmography if you look at it. Worked with Fincher. He also did the screenplay for Jack the Bear. Shout out to our beloved Bart the Bear. Oh, right. Oh, this had Oscar Buzz, Lifetime Achievement Award winner,

Bart the Bear and all his project. Presented by Bart the Bear, too. Yes, exactly. Exactly. Oh, that was a Marshall Herskowitz movie. Marshall, I feel like Edward Zwick gets the lion share of the Zwick and

Herskowitz movie side credit. The two of them, of course, I will always love because of my so-called life. But Marshall Herskowitz also got to direct a movie or two, and one of them was Jack the Bear. A film I have never seen, but looks like it's probably very sad, just from the way it's like... Yeah, I can't do animals in peril. This one is like children, too.

This is, I think it's mostly just like, I don't think this is, I don't know. Wait, you're thinking of The Bear, not Jack the Bear. Oh, no, I do know what Jack the Bear is. This is Danny DeVito. Jack the Bear is nuts. Jack the Bear, okay, so Jack the Bear. the bear. Danny DeVito is a single parent of two

boys and like the older boy dates Reese Witherspoon by the way. What? Like dates. They're like 10 years. They're like 10. Okay. Right. Right. Right. Yes. And then Gary Sinise is like their neighbor who is a

Nazi and I think child rapist. And like the movie ends with him like invading their house. And And I think he falls from a tree and dies. It's a very traumatic movie. What? Wow. It's a lot.

Like, Gary Sinise dresses up a neighborhood boy as, like, a Nazi for Halloween. Wow. I could be remembering this movie wrong, but I definitely watched it a bunch as a kid, so, like, maybe my memory is warped of it. But, like, Jack the Bear is a lot. I thought it looked like sad and serious and I didn't want to watch it even though I really loved Danny DeVito at the time. Like as a kid, Danny DeVito is always one of your favorite actors because he's sort of, you can meet him eye to eye and also he's very fun. Absolutely. No. He's, how do you not love Daniel? Like seriously. Right. There's like a custody thing because the mother is dead and I think the grandparents want to get custody of the kids. But I couldn't tell you if it's like Danny DeVito. is a bad dad in the movie. It's because he is like, I don't know, whatever. Like, I don't know if he's doing anything wrong or if the in-laws are just, like, evil.

Oh, God. Yeah, The Bear, which is the film with Bart the Bear, was from 1998, directed by Jean-Jacques Anou, who directed this had Oscar Buzz film seven years in Tibet and also Enemy at the Gates and the name of the Rose. That is a film about a bear. But, you know, it's called the bear. It's about a bear. There's a bear. Well, Jack, the bear is about a bear because it's Danny DeVito. Well, yeah, of course.

It's a different kind of bear. It's a different kind of bear. Yeah. Boy, we're really nailing all the little rabbit holes on this one. All the Kingsmen. So, we talked about Sean Penn. We talked about, like, let's talk about Jude Law in this movie, where this is sort of, this is sort of, this is.

of course the film that Sean Penn and Jude Law were making at the time of the 2004 Oscars when Chris Rock was very, very mean to Jude Law. And Sean Penn, did Sean Penn have his Willie Stark haircut at that Oscars as he was angrily defending Jude Law? I think Sean Penn kind of always has that haircut. It's just how disheveled is it? Yeah, I feel like this one, though, there's a little bit more of a like a, you know, shaved around the sides, kind of like a mop-top kind of thing to it. Sure, sure, sure. But this was the film they were making together.

This is why Sean Penn was very, very defensive of Jude Law. I'm sure Jude Law, we've talked about this, but I'm sure Jude Law would have rathered that Sean Penn had sent nothing at all. He's sort of, he's the lead of this movie. For as much as Sean Penn is the focal point of the film, he obviously was campaigned as a lead actor, the actor who played the Willie Stark role, Broderick Crawford, in the original one best actor at that Oscar. But, like, Jude Law is the central character, the POV character, and he's the main guy sort of moving through the action of this movie.

It's mostly about him. He's not very interesting as a character. No. At all, at all. And, like, it kind of proves a lot of those complaints about Jude Law, where it's, like, everybody was saying this in 2004 that they were, like, sick of seeing him. He's not that interesting of an actor, which is, like, Not necessarily true because he is really good in I Heart Huckabee's and then like Closer kind of exacerbates it because he plays like this like feckless boob, right? He plays into people's sort of worst opinions of his characters in Closer, but I think he does that in a very, very effective way.

I think it's, I always sort of talk about it's a good performance. It's a good performance. And sometimes when a character is not likable and the actor plays that character as that, we sort of, you know, our wires get crossed a little bit. And it's just like, fuck that guy. I hate that guy. And it's just like, no, well, you're sort of... Well, and also probably the degree to which people ascribed that performance to Jude Law himself speaks to, I think, the strength of the performance.

Yeah, totally. But all the Kingsmen is like proving a lot of those things. And I say proving with like scare quotes around it. But it's like the like it doesn't make a case that Jude Law is an interesting actor in any way. And like you're saying, he is almost the center of every scene of the movie. Yes. It's not like he doesn't have the time to make something interesting. happen. I have liked movies. I have liked Jude Law performances where he is a lead. I think he's

actually very good in Cold Mountain, for as much as Cold Mountain has, you know, a bunch of problems. On balance, though, he is far, far, far more interesting as a supporting actor. And that has borne out in that stage of his career when, like, what are his best performances in the early 2000s, or late 90s, early 2000s? It's Gattaca, talented Mr. Ripley, I heart Huckabee's. AI, like all supporting performances. And then now, at this point in his career, he's also most interesting in supporting performances with stuff like Anna Karenina and, I mean, contagion's its own thing. Say what you will about contagion, but I kind of like it. He's really interesting in it. He's really good in spy. Yeah, spy is another great example. I mean, again, say what

will about box lucks but uh he is giving a big old supporting performance in that film um and even something like the nest where like he's one of the co-leads in that movie but like that's carrie co-coons movie but he's allowed to sort of operate it's sort of like closer there too right where he's allowed to operate a little bit more as a character because he's not the he's not really the protagonist of that movie right carrie coon is the protagonist of that movie and he's so effective in not having, he's not needing to get the audience's sympathies on his side. He's so, so, so good operating in that atmosphere. Yeah, I don't think people really unpacked how good he is in that movie,

because I think those of us who are but hurt that The Nest didn't get any attention or like people didn't like it, kind of harvested all of our energies towards Carrie Coon, but he is amazing in the Nest. He's fantastic. He's really fantastic in that. So, yeah, I think it's, you know, there's a Jude Law conundrum because, and the conundrum is, he's so goddamn good-looking that it seems stupid that he shouldn't be a leading man. Because, like, we've had hundreds of, a hundred or so years of Hollywood history that tell us that somebody that good-looking should be a leading man. And he's just better when he's not. It's just scientific fact.

He's better when he's not. And this film, you know, really bears that out. Kathy Baker on her fainting couch. I just want to say. I just want to mention it. A mood, an aspiration. I think she's got a drink in her hand. And she's really, like, she is dressed for, you know, cocktails and dinner.

But, like, she is just lounging on that couch. And rightly, so I feel like there was a missed opportunity of, like, art direction, set decoration in this movie where, like, there are these big sort of like fancy houses that this film sort of takes place in and it doesn't really feature them to their you know what I mean like I feel like I wanted it to be like Anna Karinana where suddenly there would be this reveal that this is all shot in one giant mansion and we're actually watching yes yes yes exactly exactly this movie does not have ideas to speak of, let alone

once like that. Yeah, Kathy Baker. Always happy to see Kathy Baker. But even she's given, like, ridiculous stuff to do. You're right. You mentioned at the top that, like, the best performance,

the one who probably emerges the most unscathed, is Patricia Clarkson, even though there's not enough of her. Yeah. Yeah. She does have unquestionably the best line in the movie

after Sean Penn's affair is revealed. And it's like a ballerina who does ice skating on a stage. It was very, very, very confusing. Yes. So maybe the most interesting sequence of the movie. She says, the world is full of sluts on skates. Relatable. Oh, the sluts on skates line?

Yeah, for sure. I feel like Denali from Drag Race should embody that more. That should be her brand. She should do her next show. she should just do a Patricia Clarkson monologue from all the Kingsmen. It'll really get all the 20-something gays happen for sure. They'll know, yeah, they'll be familiar with all the Kingsmen, totally. That ballerina, though, the ice skating ballerina, of course, dances to the tango from True Lies. And I know that there's not, that did not originate in True Lies, but it will always, always, always

be the Tia Carrera tango from True Lies to me. I did remember it. I just couldn't place where it was from. Yeah, yeah. I'm also sort of looking at my notes now. There's another thing I wrote down when Jude Law goes and investigates. So Willie Stark sort of sends Jude Law's character down the path of investigating because Anthony Hopkins is sort of a thorn in Willie's side in this movie. He's politically. And Willie wants to discredit him, especially in Jude law's eyes because Jude is sort of his trusted advisor and he wants to keep his loyalty. So he says, go look into Anthony Hopkins, and he's maybe not as upstanding a figure as you've always thought he was. And he goes in and he finds this, the sister of this political

opponent of Anthony Hopkins is who had committed suicide. And he's talking to her. And at one point, he just goes, now don't you go jumping out a window? And it's just like, that's very insensitive and he's just like he's not even trying to like be mean about it but it's just like that was a shockingly a callous thing to say to somebody whose brother had killed himself yeah so yeah the dialogue in this film again coming from a really really prolific and accomplished screenwriter as zalien is i don't know what what okay so you go ahead i remember i I just kind of want to talk about how this movie cratered at that TIF. Do you have that TIF lineup pulled up because you should pull it up?

I'll pull it up. It's like when you look at the past years, this would be a great year to go. There were two major stories that I remember from this TIF. It's this movie cratering and then the Borat premiere. Oh, God. It was in Midnight Madness and the projector goes out, like, 15 minutes and, into the movie, and, like, while they're trying to salvage it for this, like, midnight premiere screaming, like, Michael Moore gets on stage and is, like, answering questions

from the audience. Oh, wow. Sasha Baron Cohen is, like, coming and going, like, trying to get the movie fixed, but then still, like, be performing as Borat for the crowd and, like, saying he's going to kill the projectionist and things. Oh, that is, that's had been. have been a real experience to be able to see that. That's sort of part of like that TIF, like, Midnight Madness Legend, I'm sure.

I'm surprised they don't talk about that more, I guess, because it's, it highlights an error on the festival's part, but, uh, well, I mean, like, this was still when they were doing film projection. I'm sure there's other situations where things have happened before, because most of the festival will be digital now, and that's easier to fix, I guess, or you're like, you know, put a little extra digital. something right i listen i'm not i'm not good with science and that is basically science to me that that particular midnight madness though it's borat it's uh the host bong junho's the host was at that that midnight madness and then also uh all the boys love mandy lane which was that movie that was like famously delayed forever and ever and ever uh played tiff that year uh in midnight madness doesn't get released in the united states until 2013 Amber Heard was in that movie.

That was sort of just like very, very famously long delayed. Yeah, now I'm looking and seeing what the big gala premieres were that year. Babble was that year. It's such a good Tiff that like you can really see comparatively how all the King's Men was the fly and the punch bowl. I mean, there were some bombs that year. We're like Ridley Scott's a good year, which was very much buzzed and did not do much. infamous the not Capote Capote movie that finally got released

was a gala premiere that year but like yeah you're right there's like away from hers that year which is just like such a groundswell success for Sarah Polly Babel obviously goes on to a best picture nomination and almost a win Last King of Scotland was that year Oscar win for Forrest Whitaker little children

the good Kate Winslet movie that year Pan's Labyrinth, was it Tiff? Even things like the fountain being there, like this would have been a cool thing to go to. Like, I, there's not, there's things that were, you know, not successful and not critically well reviewed, but like... There always will be. I don't know.

The, like, there's no bombs, right, quite in the way that all the Kingsmen was. And you can also see how, like, that very loud negative reaction from the festival when the movie opens a week or so later how that contributed it to like the movie completely evaporating from theaters instantly.

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And yet People's Choice Award that year was a film called Bella by Alejandro Gomez Monteverde that I don't know if I recall. So this was before... that movie is Tammy Blanchard is in it. Oh, well, we love Tammy Blanchard.

Yeah, good for you. Tammy, oh, now I'm looking at it. Tammy Blanchard and also Allie Landry, the famous Doritos spokesmodel. Who is not Alley Larder. That's, yeah. Yeah, really, really interesting. It is interesting that the People's Choice was something so far away from Oscar. Yeah.

When that was a very Oscar-y. Very Oscar-y tiff. Volver was there leading up to Penelope Cruz's nomination. Roger Michel's Venus, which got a nomination for Peter O'Toole. Was that that Tiff? Away from her. The 2006 Oscar race, the way that Buzz sort of built through that year, yeah, away from her, which doesn't get released, obviously, until the next year. So this was a little like a year, yeah. But 2006 Oscar Buzz builds really interestingly, because of course the winner ultimately ends up being The Departed, which was the trajectory of that film, we may have talked about this a while ago,

but like it's been a minute, where I think on the heels of the aviator, which was so, so, so heralded as being like, this is going to be the Scorsese film that finally wins. It's everything that Oscar wants. It's big. It's lavish. It's got all the fixins. And then Clint Eastwood comes out at the last minute and snakes him and gets best picture. And I think there was a little bit of a hangover, a Scorsese hangover from that because the Aviator happened right after Gangs of New York, which also had a lot of that when will Marty win kind of buzz

and the departed was sort of seen as if not exactly a retreat than sort of a back-to-basics movie that is just like let's just have a Martin Scorsese movie where we just enjoy ourselves and we don't have to talk about... Even when like the reviews were through the roof at the beginning

Warner Brothers tried to downplay. Abate some of and downplay some of the Oscar talk for it too because A, if they did, if it could be successful like they didn't want that fatigue thing. Right. But they also had a Clint Eastwood movie that would

be coming at the last minute. Two Clint Eastwood movies. When that movie did arrive, it got, well, the Departed came out after Flags of Our Fathers had already been released and people were so-so on that movie. Yeah. But when letters from Iwo Jima arrives, again, the very last minute,

and gets incredible reviews. It was like, oh, no, is this going to happen again? Because at that point, the Departed did have some steam. Remember when we talked about Hillary Swank and conviction? And it's just like when Annette Benning was getting buzz for the kids are all right. And everybody was just like, oh, God, no, here, it's going to happen again. And there was absolutely that sense. Because you're right, flags of our fathers had come out.

And that had very big early buzz because it was Clean Eastwood, follow up to his best picture win, whatever. And then there was this, I feel like there was a definite sense of relief when it didn't get good reviews. And everybody was just like, okay, well, it's not going to be Flangsville or Fathers. Thank God. And then you're right. Then the departed finally, it gets released. Everybody's just like, no, it's just a regular movie. It's not an Oscar movie.

Don't worry. Don't worry. It's not going to be anything. And then finally, when Buzz starts to creep up a little bit, when people are just like, but people really love it. And there's no, like, there's no saying that it can't. And then letters from Iwo Jima comes out, and it is. It's just like your stomach falls through your feet, and you're just like, oh, God. Like, Mike Myers is not dead.

Michael Myers isn't dead. He's just, he's back. And I really like letters from Ywojima. Like, in comparison to flags of our fathers, it helps that it's in comparison to that movie, which is very, very not good. But I think Letters from Iwojima is a very good movie, a very solid clean Eastwood movie. But, and then it does. You're right.

It gets nominated for Best Fiction. picture sort of edging out Dreamgirls and it was it was amazing the sense that just like oh my good God it's it's happening again clean Eastwood does this he does this every few years where you think he's out of it and then an American sniper happens you know you think he's gone and it's like that's why every clean Eastwood movie that comes out nobody can ever count it out no matter what no matter how one look out next year for crime or two right well this is what this is what I'm saying. This is when the mule comes out and you're just like, well, it seems ridiculous. And yet, like, your mind is just like, we've been through this before. We have to steal

ourselves. We have to prepare. We have to, again, you're building up the sandbags. And it doesn't matter if, like, elements of some of these movies are so horribly made because we all remember the movie from, the baby from American sniper and how poorly shot that movie is, and that doesn't stop people from thinking it's great. It sure doesn't. It sure doesn't. Yeah, and then, like, yeah, so the 2006

sort of Best Picture race evolves very, very interestingly, and then, like, Babel wins the globe, and then, you know, the queen is this very sort of broadly appealing film that everybody really liked, and then Little Miss Sunshine wins the sag, and

Dreamgirls gets surprisingly left off of Best Picture, and, that sort of throws things into chaos. And I remember that being a very... You said Uijima kind of edged it out, and it's probably more Little Miss Sunshine, because this is mostly... I mean, when The Departed is not one of the grimest movies in Best Picture, you know, like, Dream Girls, the thing about Dreamgirls, which, like, I adore that movie,

um, one of the things at the time that thought, like, oh, it would be safe is that, like, you're competing against war movies, violent movies like The Departed, like fatalistic babble, you know. Even the Queen, which is about, like, grief and, you know, the Queen's response to tragedy and stoicism in the face of tragedy and this kind of thing, yeah. But Little Miss Sunshine's arc, I thought, was a lot more explicable, where it was a Sundance movie, you really watched that film sort of like over the summer buildup, in popularity, and it had endured.

And then once it started showing up in precursor season in different places, I at least was just like, yeah, this is definitely happening. Like, this is absolutely going to show up because it's, it's, you know, very sort of like tried and true arc. And I still really love Little Miss Sunshine. I know that movie is a kind of a lightning rod for people, especially as an Oscar success, sort of a light... I've probably said for two years on this podcast, I need to watch it again.

but I need to watch it again. Yeah, it's really good. Yeah, so all the Kingsmen did not have the stuff to punch in that same way class as all of those films. Did you, watching this for the first time, did you feel like more was going to come of those 8 billion cutaway shots to Jackie Earl Haley, like polishing his gun? Oh, my God. They do so many of them. you know what's interesting about Jackie Earl Haley in this movie is this was supposed to come out in 05 so like this would have been out before little children and I feel like right because everything came out before little children because little children barely got released that year it just oh true I mean that's still anticipate little children is one of the theatrical victims of COVID yeah I can't wait still waiting on a real release of that movie I can't wait to get to go to theaters again so I can finally see little children in theaters living in Buffalo at the time I just

remember being so furious all I wanted to do was see that movie and it just never showed up ever ever it I don't think it ever played here and it got caught up in some weird contract stuff with new line I think I looked into this because I was like this is crazy yeah and then you look up on you can still look up on box office mojo how that movie expanded and it's like it truly the wildest thing I've ever seen, where it's like movies like Call Me By Your Name, Carol, that took forever to really roll out into not New York and L.A. Right. And like Little Children is definitely the longest.

Yeah. Yeah. The idea of all the King's Men as a remake of a Best Picture winner, which was a big, big part of its buzz, because, you know, it worked before. This material had worked before in 1949, so went out. But, like, it was, that kind of thing didn't happen. Like, you don't, you didn't remake a Best Picture winner. The only real example of that, and correct me if I'm forgetting something, at that point,

was that Hamlet had been remade a few times. But, like, Hamlet was Hamlet. Like, you know what I mean? Like, Shakespeare productions get made in any different ways. That didn't really feel like the same kind of thing. And I'm sure that the Olivier one wasn't the first Hamlet. Exactly, exactly. So that didn't really feel like exactly the same kind of thing.

And, like, other things, other Best Picture Winner. winners were maybe reimagined as other things or their source material was adapted in a different way. But in terms of just like a straight remake, all the Kingsmen was kind of unique. And it's funny that now we just had one with Rebecca on Netflix that might as well not exist. But that was, you know, notable. Didn't see it. And then we're going to get one next year with Westside Story. So like, you know, for it not happening, for. like decades and decades. It happens with all the King's Men and it's a failure. And then now

within the span of, you know, two years. And it should have been in one year because West Side Story was supposed to come out in 2020. And West Side Story is still going to end up getting a lot of Oscar buzz. It certainly was when everything got called off last time. And there's no real indication that it won't get buzz again when it gets, you know, the ramp up to its release at the end of 2021, if that is indeed when it gets released. But... I'm still highly skeptical about that as a major Oscar play. Me too, but it's a Steven Spielberg movie that is gunning for Oscar, so like you can't

really ignore it. So, and I really love Ariana DeBose as Anita that casting. So I'm really, really hopeful for that. But yeah, like, a remake of West Side Story is going to have people sort of guarded, and then that it stars Ansel Elgort is really going to have people guarded. So the potential for that movie to really crash, especially with critics, is big. But I could also see it be, especially if people are going back to the movies in a big way at the end of the year, I could see it being a big crowd pleaser.

sure because it's west side story I mean like maybe my my for lack of a better word my skepticism regarding that movie and Oscar is a little more basic like Oscar is not prone to in this current era and like West Side Story is of course its own thing and will have its own like baggage and a set of expectations for stingier Oscar voters yes but like it's still going to be a movie about teens like

and they could give a crap. No, that's a good point. But again, history has shown that at least they gave a crap back when, you know, it won best picture the last time. But I think its biggest hurdle is going to end up being is that if in the Heights is the kind of hit that I think it's going to be, like, just from watching the trailer, people are just like bursting into tears as I did a week ago. It's going to already have all that momentum. And it's going to be very, very easy to put those two films side by side and just be like, West Side Story is the old and busted and in the Heights is the new hotness kind of a thing. And it's just going to, if unless West Side, or unless in the Heights becomes the, you know, the reception of that is completely counter to what it seems like it's going to be. And we've already heard from like, there have been whispers from people who have seen it that are just like it's really good.

it's going to be hard for West Side Story to compare favorably to it. And I've got all my chips on In The Heights at this point. Maybe it'll be our first movie back in theaters. Remember a year ago when we were like, well, in the Heights will probably be our first movie back in theaters. In the summer. We weren't wrong. Yeah. No, we were in another way we were very, very wrong.

Yeah, yeah. I can't wait to go see a movie in a theater again. I just genuinely can't wait. Oh, boy. It's going to be the dumbest movie. The first thing... Yeah, it's going to be stupid. Whatever it is.

Whatever it is. And I'll be happy as a clam to see it. Whatever. I'm kind of hoping that tenants and theaters when I go back. I want to go see a movie in a theater with matinee ladies who don't know what they're watching. What is that? I want to be a matinee lady who doesn't know whether he's watching in a review theater again. Like, that's what I want.

That's all I want. Oh, boy. That's our future. What else? Anything else about all the Kingsmen that we want to get into? Oh, I didn't really talk about exactly about Kate Winslet's 2006. I sort of alluded to it. It's a really weird year for her.

She's in this, which has a lot of Oscar buzz and then it totally bombs. The very end of the year, we just mentioned Little Children, which gets her fifth best actress nomination. It's the last one she gets before she. she ends up winning two years later for the reader, controversially enough, but she gets that nomination purely on the strength of her reviews, because like all the reviews really loved that movie and really loved her especially, but she's also in The Holiday, which is, again, another Kate Winslet, Jude Law movie, and that one, they are siblings, and in this one, they are lovers who grew up as sort of like quasi-siblings, right?

And then, of course, we all remember clearly her fourth 2006 movie, Flushed Away, where she plays a... The Ardman. She plays a rat, I believe. She voices... Are they rats in Flushed Away? I think it's rats. The title Fleshed Away always makes me worry that they're all, like, play in little poops in a toilet or whatever. And it's, like, it's toilet base, but no, they are rats.

Hey Winslet, voicing a poop. Okay, yes, I've looked this up. They are indeed rats. It looks like the villains are these little green blobby things. Are the villains? Are the villains, but boogers? I'm going to tell you something. It looks like the villains in the poster of this movie.

I'm going to surprise you and tell you that I have never seen DreamWorks animations flushed away. But... I have not either. I want our listeners to just, like, examine the voice cast. of 2006 is flushed away. So Hugh Jackman, Kate Winslet, Ian McKellen, Jean-Ranau, Andy Circus, of course,

Bill Nye, Miriam Margulies, we adore. Kathy Burke, it's just, it's the finest collection of performers gathered together to make a film about animated rats in a toilet who, as you just mentioned, are perhaps battling little poopies. So, like...

I mean, it's an Ardman movie. I'll probably love it. Listen, I'm not saying... I never disliked an Ardman movie. I'm not saying that you and I, at some point soon, should watch flushed away together, but I'm not not saying that either. At this point,

the level of escape is... that I need. Yeah. Fleshed away. Okay, which of these performers, though, do we think is most likely to voice a little poopie? Oh, Bill. Not Bill Nye.

Of course, not Bill Nye. I meant Andy Circus. Andy Circus is, of course, most likely to voice a little poopie. Yeah. But, like, mocap, like, really true to life. Like, you would swear that that was a real-life poopie if you watch that movie. He researched for nine months with proctopoe. to understand the psychology.

Yeah, he really, really, like, the ins and outs of that. It was one of the most breathtaking performances of 2006. And if the Academy were a more daring voting body that would recognize not only traditional acting, but mocap acting, they would have recognized Andy Circus as the poopie and flushed away. For sure, for sure. We do not. We now have talked ourselves into. the corner of needing to watch this movie together, Chris.

We really have. I guess we can make that happen. You know what else we need to make happen? I've said it before. I'll say it again. What? Andy Circus as the future star of the Flora Plum movie, which will happen, so that we can see the circus at the circus.

Okay. I see what you did there, and I'm very happy with it. Yeah. Okay, so like... I will keep making this joke. Does he play all the different circus creatures, or does he play the big top itself? which is like somehow animate?

Like, what are we doing here? What's, or does he play just like all the parts like the clumps? He just mocaps everybody in Flora Plum. He is Flora Plum. He is Flora Plum. He also plays Jody Foster. So, okay, for as much as I talk about Flora Plum and have talked about it throughout the years,

I may be not as up on who the characters. I should find a way to, like, read the Flora Plum script. Like, find somebody who knows somebody who knows somebody. We've tried to source this before. We can't get the script for Flora Plum. Reach out. But, like, so Claire Daines is, like, a circus performer. Do we imagine, like, a trapeze artist or something, like an acrobat or something like that?

Yeah. She parades around the grizzly bears or something like that. And then Russell Crow owned the circus? Is this, like, a water for elephants kind of a thing? I don't know. Maybe he was an animal trainer, or he was the trapeasist. Wow, Russell Crow on a trapeze is... I'm trying to remember...

Yeah, but this was like circa 2000. Yeah, that's his most... All right, now I'm trying to find... Zveld? Wow. Did you know that there was an American film and television actress named Flora Plum, but with a bee at the end of Plum? Who died in 2018?

And she was in shows like Marcus Welby M.D. and the Mod Squad? I had no idea. So that... Maybe she sued. That's why the movie never happened. Maybe. Maybe that's... It was hung up for years.

Yeah, died at the age of 73 in 2018, and now they can make flora plum now. It's weird that we don't want to talk about all the King's Men, Chris, that we've gone down this many tangents. I don't understand it. Why don't we want to talk about this compelling movie? I kind of can't express... It's not the worst movie we've ever done,

but it's close. Because, like, I just can't kind of... of express the level of inertia and incoherence, literally from scene to scene to scene, where you don't understand how the previous scene led into the next. Like, truly, I thought we were going to watch another boring movie, like, we did last week with Live By Night, where it would just be, like, the problem is the movie just isn't good. But, like, no, the problem is this movie has problems. Yeah.

That's not the most eloquent way to say that. No, but you're right. Like, that's sort of, that's the bottom line is the problem is this movie has problems. That is, that's where we're at with this movie. This had lived by night back to back. I maybe previously felt bad for Steve's alien because he's done, he's scripted all these major movies. Yes. Major directors, a lot of like big studio product to.

Yeah. That like, we've seen this type of transition before from, you know, really celebrated screenwriter, moving into directing and like we've also seen it not work I would definitely argue for Aaron Sorkin in this scenario being an example of that but then when you watch the movie it's like

no some people are just not directors but again even though like searching for Bobby Fisher is so fucking good Like, if you haven't, listeners, if you haven't seen that movie. Searching for Bobby Fisher has way lower stakes than this does, though. But it's really visually compelling. Like, those scenes where he's playing chess out of doors with, like, Lawrence Fishburn and Ben Kingsley and whatnot, like, there's a kinetic energy to those. And there's just, like, the way you can watch, like, the sweat on Lawrence Fishburn as he's, like, playing chess in those scenes or whatever.

it's just like it's really well done beyond even just being like a really interesting story it's a really well done film and i can't really speak to a civil action because i definitely watched it but i don't really remember a ton about it um yeah but like and i mean maybe you know some people have like that you know one you know film in them or whatever but this does not speak super well for steve zellion as a director you're right there yeah i'm looking at the wikipedia page maybe it's just that it this maybe you needed a more what Wikipedia page no no go ahead you finish your thing first I was just going to say maybe this movie needed a more limited scope than what it had to work on the level of like searching for Bobby fisher does yeah I feel like if this movie is just based on the novel all the Kingsmen rather than remaking the best picture winner there's maybe less of a feeling of obligation to I don't know live up to what it was and you can maybe do different things with it or with the script or whatever I was saying I'm looking at the Wikipedia page for the film right now and one of the things it says is the film generated strong Oscar buzz and once considered a contender by Entertainment Weekly but buzz is in scare quotes which I think is very funny I feel like that's just Somebody read one article and that but they don't follow the Oscar race

This thing they call buzz this thing Oscar buzz Which you know feels like an indictment of what we do and you know what honestly that's fine um that's totally fine we are we are not uncritical of uh the whole uh no we are not uh what were the hollywood film awards that this movie was nominated for by the way speaking of it got the producers award so it basically got the best picture of the hollywood film awards which makes complete sense because like Hollywood film awards we've talked about this before especially with i believe conviction almost all of their awards that they would give is movies that are sight unseen.

Right. So this would have been like, congratulations to your publicist. Be sure to thank them in your Hollywood Film Award speech. Though, one smart thing they did, they did, I wonder when this would have happened, but they did give Best Actor to Forrest Whitaker. So to me, that says there were whisperings earlier than when. the film premiered, I believe, at Tell Your Ride. Yeah. Because

when everybody saw that movie for Forrest Whitaker, it was like, he's absolutely winning this year. He was pretty much unchallenged the entire season. Right. But like, to me, I remember that being like the Philip Seymour Hoffman of Capote

surprise of the year in that like, it wasn't necessarily a movie that was on anybody's radar. I'm going to take a minute. to be people actually seeing the movie. A year ahead of time, I had my eye on The Last King of Scotland because it was such a Kevin McDonald fan from the documentary that

he had made one day in September about the Munich Olympics. So I feel like I was like on that train early where I was just like, keep an eye on this. Kevin McDonald's very good and Forrest Whitaker's a really good actor. So... You are way better at that

sniffing things out than I think most of us are. In, no. I will say in very rare and specific cherry-picking occurrences, yes, I will always remind you of my successes and never remind you of my many failures. So, yeah. You mean like the type of failures where the Hollywood Film Awards gave best director to Oliver Stone for World Trade Center? Yes, I mean exactly that. Wow. Were we ever so young as when we thought World Trade Center was going to be a thing? Oh, dear. That movie, we could do an episode on it, but it.

It is like chicken soup for the sole 9-11 edition. Don't want to. Anything else before we hop into the IMDB game? No, let's move into the IMDB game. Would you like to explain what that is to our listeners? Yeah, every week we end our episodes with the IMDB game, where we challenge each other with an actor or actress to try and guess the top four titles that IMDB says they're most known for.

If any of those titles are television or voiceover work, we mention that up front. after two wrong guesses, we get the remaining titles release years as a clue. And if that's not enough, it just becomes a free-for-all of hints. That's the IMDB game. Joe, would you like to give her guess first? I'll guess first. Okay, cool. So, as listeners know, for the past several weeks, I've been trying to derail Joe Reed's track record.

He's been crushing it for the past. like two months. Initially, I was very excited for you because you got like a month's worth of perfect scores, but now I... Yeah, now you're mad. I like to be vindictive. I am mad about it at this point. It's becoming a bit that you are good at this, and I don't like it. No, you're definitely better than me at this.

Don't worry. For this week, I went back into the other Steve Zalian directed movies. I looked at the actually quite sizable ensemble. of a civil action. Did I give you Oscar nominated for that film, Robert DeVall? I did not. Did I give you the poster actor for that movie? John Travolta, I did not.

I have given you one mister, currently on It's a Sin on HBO Max. If you guys haven't watched it, you should. He shows up for an episode or two, Stephen Fry. Oh, wow, Stephen Frye. And there's no television. There is no television. All right. Oh, this is going to be very tough.

Well, almost certainly Wild is on there. Wild is on there. Thank God. He was Globe nominated for that movie. Did not get any Oscar nominations? We could maybe do that movie. We could. We should look up.

Look up and see if I got nominations. I will look it up while you guess your second movie. Yeah. See, this is where... Because, like, Stephen Fry's a very recognizable face, but he's also in, like, a ton. Like, he just doesn't get lead roles. Oh, dear. And he's probably in, like, some, like, British crime stuff that, like, part of, like, a 12-person ensemble.

Like, I don't think he's in Kingsman, the Secret Service, but, like, he should. be he's one of those people um Steven Wilde also starring uh Jude Law Jude law in no clothes so yeah he's very very attractive and wild um

all right I need to throw some guess well okay is a civil action one of them a civil action is not one of them damn it okay all right well okay this is probably going to be another one and i'll just get years but he is because he and um emma thompson and hugh lorry were part of that uh footlights troop in uh england when they were all younger and they were all in that movie peter's friends

from the early 90s. So I'm going to guess that. Which I really want to see. It's pretty good. It's not great, but it's pretty good. Peter's Friends is not the answer. Give me years. Your years are 2001, 2005, and 2005.

Damn it. Okay, 2005. I will say you have absolutely seen all of these movies. Okay. Well, that helps. 2005 British movie. Because he doesn't really show up in like American movies. Um

2005 He's not in any Harry Potter movies And I actually don't think there is a Harry Potter movie in 2005 If he is in a Harry Potter movie Forgive me Wait, is 2001 Gosford Park It is Gosford Park

Yes everybody Gosford Park shows up for everybody All right It shows up for everybody It used to curse me all the time. Now I'm going to try to find ways to curse you with Gossford Park. Yeah. Okay.

So you need two more 2005 movies. 2005 is not Stardust. Is 2005 Cheri? I'm going to guess Cherie. Is he in that? No, it's not Cherie. These, both of these movies, one of them I'm surprised you haven't guessed it yet. He's probably third or fourth build in this movie.

They both definitely. shown up for other people's IMDP. Oh, he's in V for Vendetta. Is it V for Vendetta? V for Vendetta, yes. Okay, all right. All right, one more. One more also from 2005.

British, maybe silly. Definitely silly. Definitely silly. Oh, 5. From a famous source material. Sean of the Dead, which I don't even think he's in, but that's 04, from a famous source material. Oh, is he in The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy? He is in the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. He narrates it.

Oh, yeah. All right. Well, that's a voiceover. And he's also billed as the guide. That's hard. That was good, good job. Successfully, good job giving me a tough one, Stephen Fry. Was Wilde nominated for any Oscars? It was not. We could do an episode on it. We should do it.

It's a wonderful movie. All right. Good job. Well done. Knocking me off of my high horse. I chose for you, someone I think, significantly easier than Stephen Fry, but not without his challenges.

I went into the other Steven Zalian directed film. I went into searching for Bobby Fisher. One of the many great performances in that film is given by Mr. Ben Kingsley. Oh. So do Ben Kingsley. We love him. Yeah.

Okay. Ben Kingsley. Here's the thing. For Oscar and him, I wouldn't be surprised if sexy Beast was in there, but not Gandhi, but I'm still going to say Gandhi.

Gandhi, correct. Okay. Hugo. What's that? Hugo. No. not Hugo He's really good at Hugo

A movie that I don't really care for I remember very, very little about Hugo I still think sexy beast is going to show up So I'm going to say sexy beast Sexy Beast, correct Okay And then He is in the MCU

He does a lot of voice work but you didn't say any voices. Yeah, no voices. He does a lot of science fiction. Just trying to think. Oh, another movie that he is very good in and did not get enough love for it. I feel like still he's overlooked for this movie

is Schindler's list on there. Correct. On both counts, he is very underrated and overlooked in Schindler's list. He's wonderful. Yes. us on there. Cool. Okay. I don't think

House of Sand and Fog is going to be there. But I know that, like, there's other Oscar movies that he's done. Is... He's really good

in Dave? Is it Dave? Dave showed up for somebody really weird one time. It's not Dave. It's not Dave. No, that's your second strike. So your missing year is 2013. That's got to be Iron Man 3. It is.

Iron Man 3. Very good. He's really funny in Iron Man 3. He is. He's incredibly funny in Iron Man 3. One of my favorite MCU performances, single film MCU performances ever. All right. I think that is our episode.

If you guys want more this had Oscar Buzz, you can check out the Tumblr at this had oscarbuzz.tumbler.com. You should also follow our Twitter account at had underscore Oscar underscore buzz. Joe, tell our listeners where they can find more of you. Yeah, you can find me on Twitter at Joe Reed, Reed spelled, R-E-I-D. You can also find me on letterboxed as Joe Reed reed spelled the same way. And you can find me on Twitter at Krispy File, that's F-E-I-L, also on letterboxed under the same name.

We'd like to thank Kyle Cummings for his fantastic artwork and Dave Gonzalez and Gavin Muvius for their technical goals. guidance. Please remember to rate and review us on Apple Podcasts, Google Play, Stitcher, wherever else you get your podcasts now, including Spotify. Five-star review in particular really helps us out with Apple Podcast visibility. So please get out from behind that weird dining table veil and make your thoughts visible to us all. That's all for this week, but we hope you'll be back next week for more fun. Fantastic Journey Home. There are things I want to do, sites I want to see. That's not one of them.

All right, boss. Keep your legs straight when you hit the water. I kept my legs straight, Spike. Flushed away. I think I could learn to like this place.