This Had Oscar Buzz - 140 – A Home At The End Of The World

Episode Date: April 12, 2021

After the success of The Hours in 2002, author Michael Cunningham was a hot commodity in prestige cinema. At the same time, Colin Farrell emerged as the next big thing and was seemingly inescapable at the movies. The two converged in 2004 for A Home at the End of the World, an adaptation of Cunningham’s novel delivered by … Continue reading "140 – A Home At The End Of The World"

This episode is supported in part by Gateway Film Center, a non-profit cinema committed to supporting storytellers. Authentic stories can inspire new ideas, entertain, push boundaries, spark new levels of empathy, and advanced social change. To learn more about their program and plan your visit for award season weekend, please visit gatewayfilmcenter.org. Oh, wrong house. No, the right house. We want to talk to Marilyn Heck. I'm from Canada water Bobby

Claire, about whom you've heard so much You're having a baby Didn't Jonathan tell you? I didn't know you two were on Lovers? We're not. Most parents aren't lovers. Mine worry. I think you need a new haircut. I never really, you know, think about it. Well, I do.

Bobby, what do you like about me? What? Do you think I'm attractive? Absolutely, I do. Well, there's just no smooth or sophisticated way to do this, is there? Where is everybody? Doesn't this all seem sort of strange? No, man.

It's perfect. Probably I'm starting to feel a little extra. I just want everybody to be happy. What if I just couldn't do this? Hello and welcome to the This Had Oscar Buzz podcast, the only podcast with a case of the cobbler barfs. Every week on This Head Oscar Buzz we'll be talking about a different movie that once upon a time had Lofty Academy Award aspirations,

but for some reason or another, it all went wrong. The Oscar hopes died, and we are here to perform the autopsy. I am your host, Chris Fyle, and I'm here, as always, with my favorite baker, hymbo, Joe Reed. Do you like my haircut? It went from anachronistic pre-80s to anachronistic post-80s. I hope you enjoy it. Do you mean, did I like your wig that we just took off your head? Oh, that wig. The hairstiles in this. The only person who remains timeless, naturally, is Sissy Spaceac. Well, yes. Yeah. The Sissy Spacick look will never go out of style, and we're happy for it.

Time out for half a second. They're vacuuming downstairs. This will almost certainly get picked up on the audio. So if you are listening to this and there is vacuuming in the background that is happening in my home, there is no way I'm going to be able to extricate it from the audio. So just you're not going crazy. There is somebody vacuuming. I mean, if you have to use the backup audio for a second, I absolutely. cannot hear it. There's no backup audio that won't pick this up. Like anything, like, it's fine. It's not a problem. I just want to give our listeners an explanation. This isn't quite a... A glimpse behind the post-production curtain. Yes, exactly.

Exactly. Ah, okay. We were just traumatized by the early people who didn't like our audio. Oh, yeah, I'll never get over that. Truly, we'll never get over it. Early iTunes reviews. We'll stay with you forever. It is a thing that lives in your RNA, a

along with the vaccine and, yeah, all of that. Truly, God forbid you as an independent podcast not be entirely perfect. Anyway, we are not here to go through past trauma. We are here to talk about a little movie that I'm really excited to see or here. We do not do video chat. Here, your thoughts on this movie, because I had already seen this movie. Yeah, as I had I. A lot of it had kind of escaped my memory aside from Robin Wright's hair.

We'll get into it. Right, we will. I really think I liked this movie a lot. I did too. So I had seen this movie back when it came out. I had also, previous to the movie, read the book, Michael Cunningham's book. After I had seen The Hours, I think it was, I think my progression was, I saw The Hours movie, then I read The Hours book, and then, because I was such a fan of both, I read Home at the End of the World, which was Michael Cunningham's prior novel to The Hours. And I read this book around the time, I came out in my 20s, I've mentioned this before.

I read this book around the general sort of time period that I was coming out. And it really stuck with me. It really sort of, you know, hit me in the feels as we did not say then, but, you know, we also don't say now. But we said at some point maybe six years ago or something. By we, you mean our collective. The culture. the culture that we belong with of moms on Facebook. Right, exactly, exactly.

At some point, in our history, people said the feels, and that's what this book gave me. So it was very, very special. It was very important to me. And then the movie came out, and the movie was, by a lot of measures, a disappointment in terms of the expectations maybe that people had for it. Obviously, Colin Farrell's career was really at a sort of like a red-hot place,

but we'll talk about his there was not exactly Colin Farrell backlash happening but like there were Colin Farrell troubles that were happening around this time and we'll talk about that. We'll talk about that. But there was a sense of

letdown to this movie and I was worried that then watching it again all these many years later that I would find a lot of the flaws in it and especially in the early going I did and maybe for the first half an hour to 45 minutes of this movie, I was like, oh, this is like worse than I remember. And then

it... And then Sissy Spac shows up? Well, sort of. Like, she's a big part of it. Although the interesting thing about Sissy Spac in this movie is she's a much bigger character in the book. In the book, the book is one of those books where each chapter is sort of narrated by a different character. And it sort of hops back. It's Jonathan's perspective and then it's Bobby's and then it's Claire's. But Sissy Spacex character, Ruth, am I wrong? She just always seems like a Ruth when she plays characters like this. She was a POV character as well. And you got more of her interiority. You got more of sort of her story as she was the thing where like she gets sort of turned on to Laura Niro in that scene where she's smoking pot with the kids. And there's sort of

an awakening and kind of a sad realization of like, well, here's where I am in life. Sort of an extension to that conversation she has with Robin Wright's character which is absolutely all there in Sissy's SpaceX expression Absolutely like the performance is spot on But there's more like you just get more of her character And I get why that was kind of cut out

It's sort of hard to it would be hard for this movie As it's building the storyline with the three characters in New York To constantly sort of be like now And now we go back to mom back in Phoenix or whatever right But there's more where there But I think there's also just this movie kind of hurries itself to get to the point where it's the movie that it's about. Do you know what I mean? Where it gets to the point where it's the three of them in New York in this very sort of unconventional family.

And to me, there's a sort of rocky road to get to that point. But once it does, I was like, oh, right, this is like, by the time they're dancing on that porch towards the end of the movie, I was like, all right, I remember now. This is why, this was why and how this book really, like, you know, struck to the heart of me. And, yeah, it's, by the end of it, I was just like, this is a good movie. This is a good story. This is well done. The performances, which I wasn't totally, like, at the beginning, I literally wrote down in my notes. I was like, was it Colin Farrell miscast in this film?

And by the end, not at all. I think he's great. I think by the end, I remembered that as well. I think he's really, really good in it. And, yeah, so I'm glad to hear you sort of, you felt that way, too, that you really liked this movie. It's definitely a movie I feel like I would stick up for and recommend at this point. It's not perfect. I think all of the performances are great.

I think everybody is cast really interestingly, but not miscast. I mean, maybe Sissy Spacec, it, like, makes complete sense. But, like, it captures a certain part of Colin Farrow. you don't see very often. Dallas Roberts has a really interesting, like, breakthrough here. Robin Wright, the same thing with Colin Farrell. Like, you don't really see her in a certain mode. But I just always think Robin Wright is someone who always understands the assignment.

Robin Wright in this movie, I was so, I forgot that, like, I'm not used to seeing Robin Wright play. Like, when I say bright, I don't mean intelligence-wise. I mean sort of personality-wise. sort of like... Upbeat. Yes. And also, like, chatty characters. Like, she sort of has gotten to a point where it's just like, she seems stoic and reserved and kind of, you know, a crouching tiger of a woman in many of her parts.

And in this, she's just like, again, there's a brightness, there's a chattyness, a... I don't know. It's a different Robin Wright mode, both before her career in this part and after. that it's kind of exciting to see her. I will say I probably had the opposite trajectory as you in terms of this watch of the movie, where like the movie built for you, whereas like I think it kind of flounders in maybe like the last half hour in a way that like it feels like it's speeding through a lot of these things while still like, you know, taking these emotional beats so you can check in with. each of the three characters to see where they're at. But, like, it doesn't really linger on enough to allow it to still be interesting or complicated.

Oh, that's interesting, but we thought that. It feel, I feel like it kind of loses a little bit of gas when it's, um... Yeah, I feel the exact opposite away. I felt like it felt, it felt rushed in the beginning and it felt relaxed towards the end. That was my experience of it. Interesting. See, and I feel like it spends a little bit more time with the... interesting things, which is like the emotional truth of these characters and what their circumstances, which we don't, we don't really see relationships like the sunscreen.

No, no. Well, and the other thing that I found interesting is the whole hook of this film is an unconventional family dynamic, right? How do they've built, you know, this home at the end of the world, this thing that they've built, is this family that is very much non-conventional. And even in 2004, when this film was made, there was a novelty to that, this sort of, you know, is it polyamorous? One is in love with the other, who's in love with the third one, or maybe not, but they all, you know, there's emotion that ties them together, but, you know. I do have two questions for you.

I'm glad you read the book because I wanted to know, even though Michael Cunningham adapted his own book, I did want to know if there were things that were. sized from the movie to make it a little bit more palatable because even in 2004, this was like definitely considered a gay movie. And like at that time, there were still like measures taken to make things more palatable for straight audiences. We still do it. But like, to the best of my recollection, and again, it's been 15 years, maybe more since I've read this book. And there's also like, I use Wikipedia as a crutch a lot. And sometimes that crutch is looking to refresh myself on plots that I had forgotten. And the Wikipedia page for the novel A Home at the End of the World is very lacking in that regard. And I really

I could I could end up and like not even like the movie synopsis is a lot more detailed. Like the book synopsis is very quick. I could use a spark notes on this for sure. But to the best of my recollection, I don't believe there are say sexual encounters between Bobby and Jonathan as adults. I don't. That was one of my questions. Like there's that longing there, but I don't think, or like, or you might even expect, like, the three of them to all have sex together at some point. And I don't believe that as a thing that was in the book at all. And the stuff that happens when they're teenagers is pretty faithful as to my recollection of the book, where the thing where they sort of jerk each other off when they're sleeping over the one night, that to me was basically what happened. Interrupted blowy situation.

There definitely was that as well. And I've, again, to the best of my recollection, that is also what happened in the book. but maybe I'll read the book again. My favorite scob and interrupted blows. But let's, I want to get into a little bit more, especially about the sort of the teenage portion of this movie. But I want to get to the other side of the plot description before I do. Can I ask my other question? I feel like I know the answer because you might have, you would have mentioned it already.

Yeah. But it felt like an undercurrent. I just want to know if it was acknowledged. Like, does Alice have sex with Bobby? Alice, right. That's not Ruth. It's Alice, of course. Ruth is her character in the bedroom. No. No. There's that... Or is there like a sexual twinge there? I think it's all subtext. Like, even when you get her like POV chapters, I don't believe she ever talks about sort of any kind of odd desire for Bobby, although, again, it's been a while. She's like mystified by him. She's taken in by him and like... Yeah. But it's more in the book, it's more... Like 14-year-old boy, so he's... He's not really flirting with her, but, like, he sparks something in her that would be, like, if some man had flirted with her. It's not necessarily about who it is.

It's about what he, for lack of the less cheesy word, like, ignited in her. And I think Sissy SpaceX performance, like, is complicated in a way that's interesting and not reductive, like, the words I chose to describe it. As I recall, that in the book is more of a springboard for her. It's a jumping off point for her to sort of examine herself. And it's less— I'm really excited to read it now. It's less about— Yeah, it's less about Bobby, because it really is a very sort of like—he becomes, like, another son to her and her husband.

It's very, like, very much that. And there is that scene with Spaceic and Colin Farrell towards the end. And part of me is just like, is it. it just because I feel like everybody should be wanting to have sex with Colin Farrell at all times? And is that it? Because I get it. It's another reason why he's perfectly cast in this movie. Also that. But there is definitely, there's a, there's a subtextual sort of like sexual pull in that scene that works as subtext, but I don't think is ever meant to be text at all. I was worried that it, I mean, like I asked this not to be like Alice is a creep because I don't think

that's what's going on there. I don't think it's like fully sexual. But like, I just wanted to make sure that this, the movie wasn't glossing over any inappropriate behavior. The other thing is, I as a reader, famously I can't read,

but also as a reader, I am not the most attuned to things like, oh, well, this is what's really happening. Like, this is what's in the text, but this is what's really happening. So, like, I could go back and read it again and be like, oh, this was here the whole time, and I never really have a problem.

But I don't, but I really don't believe that that's, I don't think that that was ever really a thing. Again, listeners who, who have read this book more recently or remember it better, let us know if I'm up a creek. And I'm guessing few listeners have seen this movie. Because we'll get in total. Well, except if any demographic is going to have seen, this movie it's the demographic that listens to our podcast so yeah um i think what it is for her and i say that it like you know it reinvigorates something in her the same way that it does with her son

jonathan and the same way it does with claire when um uh when bobby comes to live with them in new york and like i'll just say this and then we can move on to the plot description so that we can really talk about it because i can tell we're already like really into discussing this um as much as this movie is about, like, families and unconventional families, too, I think it's really interested in, like, pre-existing families. And the complications of, like, when you add a new ingredient into the dynamic, it can really become, you know, the best version of what everybody wants a family unit to, be, but then it also does make it more complicated. And I think the movie really asks, you know, is there, like, is there a stopwatch on that type of dynamic?

Like, you know, does it, does, you know, the, uh, I don't want to say, like, does the perfect family unit have a shelf life, you know, it's, wow, hello, Carrie Bradshaw. I had to, I, I couldn't help but wonder. I couldn't help but wonder. Wait, what would lead to her saying, does a perfect family unit have a shelf life? Like, she's dating somebody who works at a grocery store or like... Alice starts writing a sex column in Arizona. I couldn't help but wonder.

Right, after a trip to like the Kroger or something like that, and she picks up something off the shelf and it has an expiration date. And she, and that sort of sets her off on that metaphor. Yeah, I like it. I'm into it. um no but it is very much like pre-existing like family units whether it is something like what jonathan and claire have in new york how you know you add a person into the mix or you change circumstance and then you know everybody can live this happy beautiful life but it's all fleeting

anyway and i think one of the movies big weaknesses actually is that that it doesn't care enough about adding a baby into this dynamic. Like, it's sort of, it, it, there's, there's a way in which the baby, the baby is pure plot device in this. And the fact that, and again, we'll say it in the plot description, but also spoiler, but also, like, watch this movie before you listen to this podcast, if you care about that, spoiler's that much. When Claire leaves with the baby, and I'm just like, I'm not sure this film, nor the novel, is grappling enough with how much of an emotional toll that would have taken on both of the boys that, like, this child that they, you know, raised and in Bobby's

case, fathered. Let alone the child. Right. Like, left. Like, and, and, you know, and it's another sort of, like, it's another loss for Bobby who has lost so many family members over the years. Yeah, Bobby literally loses everything. And I'm sure, and I'm, and I'm, Sure, in the book, there was more, there was, you know, it dealt with Bobby's emotions about that in general. But, like, in general, I'm like, this would be devastating. Like, well, and because it's so traumatic and horrible and horrifying at the beginning of the movie, it kind of makes you expect something as absolutely, like, dark and grim and traumatizing throughout the whole movie. And I appreciated that it avoided that, even though we know what's coming for Jonathan.

then that's not on screen. Right. That's, you know, that's not what that character's entire story gets to be. Right. Right, exactly. And like the same way that Claire leaving, she's not defined by leaving. Right. Right.

Her character is more than that. But I just, I do feel like it just needs to have a little bit more of an understanding of the emotional impact of adding a child to this family and then subtract. acting a child from that family, that it would have taken. I also think that maybe once the baby actually arrives, that it's like right when it clicks in with me that the movie starts to kind of lose its depth to me because, like, it becomes about a lot more of the, like, facile things about what wouldn't work about this dynamic in time that they live. Yeah. And, like, that's fine if the movie is kind of about that, that, like, the basic strictures of, like, purely straight, purely nuclear unit life is so, like, demanded or so, like, obstructive in our time that, like, they couldn't live in the way that they would want to. Right. But the movie isn't about that.

You also can get no sense of how, and again, I think this is part of the design, because of the idea. that they are, they have built this little world for themselves separate from everything. They go off into upstate. It does have a very kind of New Yorker's view of just like, well, they moved to upstate New York, which is basically the ends of the earth. And there's like, they found a little colony on like a remote island, you know, away from everything. And it's just the Hudson Valley, y'all.

Like, there are people. And there's a little bit of an acknowledgement when they show them working at the little cafe that they start and whatever, that there are customers and there are regulars. The cafe that's built on, that's, like, based on the home that they've built for themselves. Right. Right. But, but there, at least, they interact with the community a little bit. But in general, there's very little sense of how this community in the 1980s in the Hudson Valley of upstate New York would react to this strange family unit.

And the movie's not really concerned with that. That's fine. Like, that's not what the movie's about. But I was curious at times of just like, what does the community make of, these, you know, two proprietors of this restaurant that they go to, being two-thirds

of a thruple living in this sort of like wonderful little country home with a daughter, and they're, you know, the woman living with them has, you know, big pink hair with awful bangs and and, you know, all this other sort of stuff, but... Let me tell you, honey.

Courtney Cox has screamed three bangs. I thought of it, plenty. Walked. Yep. So that Sharon Stone's basic instinct. Two bangs could run so that Robin Wright's a home at the end of the world bangs could run a marathon. Could hurdle. Could run the 100 meter hurdles, my friend. Absolutely. Pentathlon. Whatever that is. Pentathlon bangs. Those are pentathlon bangs. And that is on that. Okay. Let's do the 60 second plot description. Let's do it. Guys, once again, we are here to talk about a home at the end of the world directed by Steve. Stage director, Michael Mayer, we will get into that, written by Michael Cunningham based on his own novel, starring Colin Farrell, Dallas Roberts, Robin Wright, and Sissy Spacec.

There's some other people, including an uncredited Wendy Crewson, but really... Wait, who is Wendy Cruzen in this? I totally missed her. Wendy Cruzen is Colin Farrell's mom. Oh, sad. In the party scene. Yeah, Matt Fruwer's in it. Matt Fruher plays Jonathan's father, who of course I mostly know as A, the neighbor's dad in hunting, I shrunk the kids, and also the trash can man in the stand miniseries from

the 1990s. Also, is he Max Headroom? Am I wrong? Is that? Yeah, I'm probably not the person asked that question. Now I'm going to click on into, yes, he was Max Headroom from the 1980s, who basically exists as like, was he in a thing or was it just commercials? I can't remember.

I genuinely can't remember. It's one of those 80s things, like, well, I was going to say. say like alf, but I have a much better grasp on what Alf was to the culture, because he had a show. Anyway. Great. The movie premiered.

I love what I do that. Well, I'll go on a tangent, and you're just like, anyway. You do that too, please. No, I liked that tangent. That was a positive great. That was not a shut the fuck up. Great. Dare you. It's a thin line. It's a thin line, I guess. it. I get it.

Whatever. The movie premiered, that was not a good, great, or whatever. That was a shut up. Anyway, Home at the End of the World premiered at the New York Gay and Lesbian Film Festival of June 9th, 2004, and then opened, limited July 23rd of 2004. Joe. Yes. Are you ready to give us a 60-second plot description of Michael Cunningham's, um, Michael Mayer's, Michael Cunningham's,

home at the end of the world. Yes, yes, I will. All right, then, Joe, your 60-second plot description starts now. Okay, Bobby is played by Colin Farrell, but before that, he's a kid who at age nine sees his older brother, who he idolizes die in a freak accident, and then as a teen, he loses his mom and then his dad. Meanwhile, he strikes up a friendship with nerdy and closet of Jonathan,

and they end up experimenting sexually, and it's all very sweet. When Jonathan moves away to New York City, Bobby lives with Jonathan's parents, including Mom's Sissy's Basic. But then he's an adult, Colin Farrell, and a bad wagon, he moves to 1980s New York to live with Jonathan and his straight girl roommate Claire, played by Robin Wright. Jonathan and Claire have a vague bohemian plan to have a baby together,

but it's actually Claire and Bobby who end up in a sexual relationship after she cuts his hair, so he'll look more like Colin Farrell. Jonathan, who has always been in love with Bobby, feels left out of this arrangement and fleece to Phoenix, where his parents are living, and then his dad dies, and Bobby and Claire come to the funeral, and it's tense, but then Claire says she's pregnant, and the three decide to raise the baby together at this big old house and Woodstock, and it's nice for a while, until Jonathan starts getting signs he has AIDS, and Claire can't handle the arrangement anymore,

not to do with the AIDS, but like the family arrangement. And leaves with a baby, so by the end, Bobby stays with Jonathan's sick and likely dying, and Bobby's probably going to end up alone, and it's very sad, but it's also kind of sweet. The end. And that's, well, you got that just a few seconds under time, so good job. Not a lot of Alice in that description, though. No, but I think there's not a lot of Alice in the plot of the film, really, either. See, she's an integral dynamic to it, though, and not just because we love actresses of a certain age. Not that, though. No, but that thing that I was saying, where it's like the perfect unit, like, this movie is about, like, adding the one thing to a preexisting dynamic. Yeah.

That changes it and makes it, like, the perfect thing. And there's a point in the movie where Alice is the thing, where it's like, yeah, but why are you going home? You could just stay. Like, she's going back to Arizona to live alone, but it's like. she, because she comes, and basically it feels like by the time she leaves, she comes to deliver her husband's ashes to her son, because that's the last thing she does before she leaves. That definitely makes more sense in the book, because again, you get more of a sense of what her life is and, you know, her sort of like being on her path. And I think a lot of it was that she, if she stuck around with them in New York, she'd be Jonathan's mother there. Do you know what I mean?

and she's not, you know, this is a, and Bobby's mother as well, really. And it's not really, that's not where her life is now. And she's, you know, at least doing things on her own and that kind of a thing. But I want to talk about the beginning of the movie specifically because, well, first of all, A, the scene in the book where the brother dies was so traumatizing to me. It's so incredibly sad. It's a lot in the movie. And it's, and it happens the same way in the book, where he walks through a closed plate glass door and slices his neck open.

Right, while he's high. And he slices his neck open and he dies in front of everybody. And it's horrifying in the book, especially because you get a little bit more time with Bobby and his brother. And you really just get the sense of how much he idolizes and loves his brother. And the movie communicates that actually very well. But it's horrifying. And I was scarred. I was scarred by it. I was just so incredibly. And I was just like, how are they going to do this in the movie? Because in the book, it's just like, you can't, you, it happens before you realize it's happening in the book. And all of a sudden it's just like, oh, my God. And in the movie, like, it's also incredibly well done and incredibly just like, and seeing it, seeing him sort of pull that piece of glass out of his neck and then his neck starts bleeding. And it's so terrifying and scarring. And I really, I kind of love that actor who hasn't, I haven't seen him anything in years. But at that time, he had been in that film, Imaginary Heroes with Sigourney Weaver, where...

Which we could talk about. Which we could. I don't know how much we would love to talk about Emil Hirsch at this point. But, like, Emil Hirsch is her son. And he and this boy plays his best friend, and they have a scene where they sort of like make out and maybe more. And I, of course, was only interested in scenes like that in any movie when I was in my early 20s. And so that was very impactful. And also at that same time, he was on the OC.

He was on, like, one of the middle seasons of the OC, playing one of those. Every season, it seemed like, in the middle portion, they had to introduce somebody else whom Marissa was either dating or sort of friends with who would isolate her a little bit from, like, Ryan and, you know, Seth and Summer and all that. And he, I can't remember whether his character on that show was gay or whether it just sort of seemed like he might be, but that never became canon. But he was like, that was sort of like, he was on a bunch of these things sort of at that same time. Ryan Donahue is his name.

And I liked him. And I'm sort of, I'm kind of sad that he's not in other things anymore. How did that play to you as somebody who had not read the book? The brother? Yeah. Or the death? The both. Both of that.

I mean, I think ultimately by the end of the movie, that whole early sequence before we meet Jonathan takes so long. That, like, it really does kind of, like, I kind of wish what you're describing for the book, it was what the movie was, that it feels more balanced among these characters because it really does shift the dial towards making it Bobby's movie. Right. Yeah, I mean, I thought those scenes were really good and, like, conveyed the weight of that relationship. and kind of Bobby, I think, is a tricky character later on in the movie, but I think because those scenes give you a really good foundation of who he is and who he becomes

in terms of being just kind of very accepting of things on their face, but not the most... Not to say he lacks depth, but he's somewhat an uncomplicated person, uncomplicated about the kind of love that he has for the people that he loves. Getting the interiority of Bobby from the book, I think, was very important, and it's very hard to do in a movie because on the exterior, he doesn't give much, and that's sort of by design.

And reading the book, you get to obviously, like, you know, see what he's thinking and, you know, sort of, like, nestle into his brain a little bit. And you don't get that in the movie version so much. And I get why that would be a challenge to be able to do. I do think Farrell's performance, especially as the movie goes on, gets you there a little bit better. He's really good at sort of letting you in a little bit by bit in terms of what is motivating him,

even if he is supposed to be kind of a mystery to the other two, the mystery to Jonathan and to Claire pretty much throughout. But the other thing, the part where, so then they age Bobby up a little bit, and he's a teenager, and we meet Jonathan who are teenagers. And I don't want to sort of criticize kid actors, but I do feel like it's a stronger movie if they were, would have been able to cast teens who were better able to convey, especially with Jonathan, I think, their emotions and sort of what they are feeling about their lives and about each other.

And in the book, it's such a rich part of the book, the sort of their teen lives and watching that, you know, following them kind of grow so close. And I don't know if there's, I think when we meet Jonathan as an adult as Dallas Roberts, it takes a minute to sort of ramp up to who he is because I don't think there's much of a connection between teen Jonathan and 20-something Jonathan. I would agree with that. And I think it makes the viewer sort of take a little bit to sort of feel like they know Jonathan. That's less of a problem with Bobby, but it's not no problem with Bobby. And I think stronger teen performances would have helped this movie out a lot.

yeah i think that's probably fair and i think well the focus is on bobby the whole time like definitely jonathan is the one that's kind of the back burner of that portion of the movie because that's also when alice is introduced and cissy spacec is so good especially in that first pot smoking scene the laura scene yeah it's really really fantastic she's exceptional in that scene um yeah that that makes complete sense to me because you get Bobby's bond with Jonathan and what Jonathan means to him when like he takes himself to New York. But it's it's it leaves Jonathan to kind to kind of be the mystery when it would be a little bit more of the other way around. And in the book he's not in the book, especially as a teenager, you're really, it feels like

you're in it with Jonathan the most. And it really get like it grounds you in his character in a way that I think is necessary, that the movie just doesn't quite get you there. Well, and I think it's maybe one of the movie's other minor faults is that Jonathan is never as complex as Claire and Bobby are. Right. Or at least a lot of his journey is things that we've seen before, though I think Dallas Roberts is great and gives us a complicated version of maybe a story we've seen before. Right. or at least his arc, you know, of the way he loves Bobby. And it's perhaps not as requited as he wants it to be. But it's not fully unrequited either, which is what I like about that dynamic.

I like it, too. And see, I just really like Bobby as a character in this dynamic, too, because, like, this is probably more of a queer movie than it is a gay movie. Right. And, like, not to, like, you know, state it wrongly here, but, like, you know, Bobby isn't that sexual of a creature. And they say that in the film. Like, Jonathan actually says that to Claire. I'm just like, I'm not entirely sure, you know, what Bobby is. And when he's trying to sort of, like, sum up his sexuality.

And that is true. Like, there is, he's undefined as definition. Almost. Well, and the romance that he has for Claire is the same thing. I feel like that's the same romance. That's the same type of affection that he shows towards Jonathan. But, like, he has sex with Claire. Right.

Is the different. But, like, I don't think that they fucked all that much, to be honest. And, I mean, when you go back to their teenage years, like, he had sexual experiences with Jonathan, even if it wasn't, like, you know, fucking. but like it's you know sex comes in all forms and like and so in terms of I just don't think he was that sexual right in terms of the language of the movie we see him and John his character like as characters not as Colin Farrell obviously but like we see Bobby as a character he has one sex scene sort of one and a half sex scenes with Jonathan and one sex scene really with Claire and so there's like there's a balance to

that as well yeah and I think it's pretty clear to me, at least, that, and, you know, I think this is something we're still grappling with as a culture, that, like, he can be romantically inclined towards both of the other characters, if maybe sexually inclined or sexually ambivalent. Yeah. Towards neither. Right. Well, and you also see that with, like, Jonathan and Claire, where they're introduced,

and they talk very early on about how they want to have a baby together, and it's like, but you're not having sex. And it's just like, well, no, but also, like, they're also in love with each other in a way as well, and dependent on each other and emotionally sort of tied up with each other, which is why when she- I definitely wanted to see more of what that meant for the two of them together, though. It would have been nice to have seen the two of them together before Bobby shows up in New York. Uh-huh. You know, yeah. But again, it is, the movie does seem to exist more as, like, Bobby's story.

And maybe part of that is, well, when you cast Colin Farrell, he's sort of your lead, especially at that point in the 2000s. But because Bobby is kind of, for lack of a better term, like a magical bisexual in this a little bit, you need-magical, asexual, bisexual. Right, right. You need to sort of have the grounding of Jonathan Clare. I feel like I'm nitpicking this film a lot in a way that makes it sound like I don't like it. But again, it really ends up. Oh, same. And I think, like, I'd be so much more interested.

Like, in 2004, we weren't having conversations about asexuality. Like, it was enough to have the conversation about a thruple, a bisexual thruple, you know. And, like, I don't think, I mean, Michael Mayer, I think, does not a horrible job with this movie. But I think if you had someone with a little bit more. refinement of like sexual ideas to like develop some of this and like actually make it feel like more of a conversation than just like this interesting dynamic to watch for 90 minutes I think it could have a lot of that depth

it's interesting you mentioned Michael Mayer and he's such he's so much more of a notable theater director than he has a film director although he's directed uh three films right he directed this he directed flica the uh Allison Loman horse girl movie and then... Couldn't be Flicka. And then the Seagull, which was only a couple years ago, which I don't think either one of us thought was that good.

But I particularly... Class of 2018 member, The Seagull. But I remember quite liking Elizabeth Moss as Masha in The Seagull. But that, that to me seemed much more like, oh, yes, this is a theater director directing this. And I didn't quite get that. And again, maybe it's because the roots of the Seagull are in theater and home at the end of the world.

there's not, but I surprised myself looking up, looking through Michael Mayer's career stuff and how much of a, like, acclaimed theater director he is, where he directed, I think early on, I remember hearing a lot about that 1999, You're a Good Man, Charlie Brown production. It was a big sort of launching pad for Kristen Chenoweth, among other things. Roger Bart, I believe I think that's right I think that's right Then he had that too...

This movie came right after Thoroughly Modern Millie Which he didn't win the Tony for But like that was a huge hit That wins the Tony for Sutton Foster Amazing Like God I would have died To have been able to see

Sutton Foster perform that role This is the other thing is I'm looking through His IBDB A Nerdnet Broadway database And like his 1999 The Lion in Winter which was like Stalker Channing and Lawrence Fishburn would have died to see that.

His 2000 Uncle Vanya was Derek Jacoby and Laura Linney and Roger Rees. Like, again, would have died to see that. He did a 2004 production of Nightmother with Brenda Blethen and Edie Falco. Same. That played like 15 performances. It bombed so hard.

Right, right. But would have loved to have been able to just like have witnessed that. Then, yeah, you mentioned thirdly modern Millie is his big musical triumph in 2002. And then obviously the big one for him is he directs Spring Awakening in 2006. And that is obviously like, that's a sensation. He's also Tony nominated for a production of A View from the Bridge with Alison Janney, Anthony LaPallea, and Brittany Murphy. Yes.

Yeah. Talk about some shit you'd want to see. But like he's, he directed American Idiot on Broadway. He directed Everyday Rapture, the Sherry and Renee Scott, one woman show. Absolutely. Absolutely. Fuck yeah. The Broadway, the final, like, finally headwig on Broadway, Headwig production. He directed that. He directed the Go-Go's musical Head Over Heels,

which is rad as fuck. It's so good. I loved it. And then most recently, he directed the Burn This Revival with Adam Driver and Carrie Russell and Brandon Uranowitz. That is not perfect, but I was very, very happy to have seen it. and it was really, really well-acted, especially by Adam Driver and Brandon Uranowitz. And so, yeah, he's an incredibly, like, accomplished theater director, and he's one of those names that, like, was slightly familiar to me. I was sort of talking to some of my Broadway friends earlier,

and I was just like, tell me what's Michael Mayer's whole deal? Because, like, I get the, like, the Susan Stromans and the Evo Vanhova's and the Alex Timbers' and, like, those people. I sort of, like, get what they're, you know, reputation is or sort of like what their critical assessment is and Michael Mayor's

a name I hear a lot Evo Vanhova decides to make a movie Evo Vanhova's adaptation of Michael Kenningham's The Snow Queen or whatever that book was

anyway, yes but yeah I think the direction of this movie doesn't seem very stagey it's not spectacular but I don't think it's bad either.

No, I definitely think, like, you can kind of feel it that these relationships feel pretty developed if, like, the film isn't all that interesting to look at. Like, it feels like the space and the energy and the thought was given to the actors and the performances. He seems to do, like, he seems to work. He seems to work with a lot of great actors. Oh, that's the other thing is I totally forgot to mention. I can't believe it took me this long to mention it. He directed the smash pilot. Ah, yes.

Which is, like, you talk about cultural contributions. Like, will remain in the culture forever, and thank you very much for that. And for as much, I will tell you, for as much as Smash, whatever Smash became, that pilot was unlike anything else that was on television, good and bad. Like, it was a moment. And the way that episode crescendos to let me be your star at the end is, culture, like, not to, like, steal terminology from

Les Coltraces, but, like, that was culture. That was culture. That, the moment where it pans down the panel, because also, the second best thing to the Smash pilot was the trailer for Smash that played a big year up to that, where it's like, it's, that's the one

that ends with, and introducing Catherine McPhee. But when they're, they essentially end the trailer with, like, most of, let me be your star. And it's that moment where it pans down the, it feels like the American Idol judging panel where it's just like Angelica Houston, Deborah Messing, Christian Borel, and it's just like boom, boom, boom, boom. And in the trailer, it's just like, and it's their, obviously their names show up on the screen.

And it's just, it is, it was at that moment the height of culture. And I will not take that away from him. It's a wonderful, wonderful screen credit to have and good for him. Thank you for your service, Michael Mayer. Yes, exactly. Do we want to talk about the Colin Farrell of it all? I would love to talk about the Colin Farrell of it all. Okay, I was thinking about this.

I want to take us back to one of our very first episodes, I believe our third episode. Are we going to ask the dust? Are we going to query the dust? Is that what's going to happen? Not to call our longtime listeners the dust. But I'm going to ask the dust to remind us because I remember us placing a bet. I believe it was a cash bet in that episode that we said it was either five years or ten years. I'm pretty sure it was five that Colin Farrell would have an Oscar.

An Oscar or an Oscar nomination? I believe we said an Oscar. Again, the dust can tell us. So we're saying we have two years in change. Wait, we have two more Oscars to go, right? For him to make good on that? Okay. Because that, God, was three years ago.

Motherfuck. Oh, my God. The pandemic was just a glint in our eye. Yeah. So, yeah, there's two more Oscar years to go for this to happen for Colin Farrell. I'm not sure if there's anything on the horizon for him at the moment that will be a contender for this year. So really, there's one year to go. We have one Oscars.

I will challenge you on that because. even though I do believe I said no and you said yes. So I'm the eternal optimist to win the bets that they make. I am not. I'm the opposite. But I am also the one who likes to follow a script in terms of the plans that I make. The thing I'm going to say that I'm very curious about could have a lot of potential. he is in the next Koganada movie.

Did you like the movie Columbus? I liked it. I don't think I liked it as much as the people who loved it. And I sort of wish I had loved it as much as some people did. But I thought it was good. I liked, of course, the performances. That was, uh, um... We love John Cho and Haley Lou.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes. Thank you. Yeah, the thing... Yeah, he's doing the next Koganada movie with Jody Turner Smith. It's called After Yang. Right. The thing, he's also doing a new Neil Berger movie, Neil Berger, who directed The Illusionist, and that Rachel McAdams movie where she plays a Gulf War soldier that I had high hopes for her for that didn't happen. But both of them are sci-fi movies. And sci-fi is a tough road to ho for especially acting nominations at the Oscars.

And yet, because it is a sci-fi movie from the director of Columbus. sure yes i just wonder i think that could be a thing and like columbus had very small distribution right yang is an a 24 movie my mind goes to something like moon with something like that though like auteur sci-fi that kind of a thing and it's just like Colin feral could not have gotten better reviews for that or not Colin feral Sam rockwell could not have gotten better reviews for moon and like it's still I get what you're saying though that there is potential in that for sure

I really thought you were going to say Oswald Cobblepot in the Batman but apparently Unrecognizable Batman Unrecognizable Love it First of all Whenever people call things unrecognizable anymore

I'm like have you seen a photo of that person before Yeah Colin Perel is fully unrecognizable Absolutely on it Like, it, yes, it fits the bill. Utterly unrecognito. He's also in pre-production for an in Bruges reunion with him and Brendan Gleason and Martin McDonough, which is interesting because in Bruges is the closest he's ever come to an Oscar nomination. He wins the Golden Globe for that in 2008.

He's so incredibly good in that. I know we're in a weird place with Martin McDonough post three billboards, but it's going to be on the Oscar rate, the Oscar rate. the Oscar radar because of the success of three billboards. So maybe if that arrives in time for me to make good on our bet. If not, how tragic would it be if he wins an Oscar the year after the time limit runs out? I'll still count it because I'm greedy that way. You won't. You'll still count it after you paid me.

What's that? You'll still count it after you paid me. What did I bet you? God, I'm going to have to pay you money. I think it's like 50 bucks. My God. choke on it. Choke on that $50.

The dust will tell us the dust, we need to know. Colin Farrell will know that I had faith in him and that you were greedy. That is what Colin Farrell. I always have faith in Colin Farrell. Listen, he's been on my ballot

several times. Don't blame me. You're going to have to ask the dust about this one. And then he's also... The dust needs to tell us, okay, what is the time frame? Is it a nomination or a win?

How much money was it? And who bet was. He's also going to be... And I don't think this is going to be his Oscar play either. But he's going to be in the Ron Howard soccer team caught in the cave collapse Thailand movie that he's making. It's going to be Colin and Vigo. And I think one of the two of them is just like essentially like back at headquarters fretting maybe. And like one of them is like in charge of like the rescue team.

I think. Don't quote me on that. But it's him and Vigo. It's going to be my favorite movie of 20. 24, I'm sure. It's Hitman Vigo and Joel Edgerton all trying to rescue this soccer team in Thailand.

Anyway, so that's what Colin Farrell has upcoming. Yeah. But at this point in his career, this was like the first time that he's you know, well, I mean, it's this year. It's also Alexander this year,

which we've done an episode on. We have. Um, that it was like, they've tried to make him a movie star. Those movies didn't really make money except for Minority Report, which is not his movie. But he's so crucial to what makes that movie great, I think. Like, I think his counterpart to Tom Cruise works as well, if not better than almost any other, like, Tom Cruise counterpart in a film like that that I can think of. He's so good. so it starts basically he'd done other things but like the big debut was joel schumacher's tiger

which didn't really uh get much of a release but it got a lot of critical favor all the reviews were like we have a new we have a new leading man now because he's so again sometimes it just does come down to he's just so handsome like he's so handsome and also so good in that and it's just like how can we fuck this up like we can't you can't fuck it up when when an act is great and also that good-looking, you're just like, that's money in the bank. And immediately starts getting cast opposite, who is it in Hart's War? Bruce Willis. Of course, it's Bruce Willis.

And Gregory Hoblet's Heart's War. He's in, he plays Jesse James in American Outlaws, which I always confuse with the Newton Boys, which, but this one is more, the Newton Boys was Link Letter, and this feels more like MTV, where it's like Scott Kahn and Ali Larder post varsity blues. Our good friend Gabriel Mocked is in that other suits from suits. He's other suits from suits. I thought Gabriel Mocked was Suits from Suits. No, no, no, no, no.

Suits from Suits is the guy whose name I can never remember, who got the Golden Globe nomination that one year. That's suits from suits. Gabriel Mocked is other suits from suits. Suits from suits, that character was the one who marries Megan Mark. in the show and then leaves. That's suits. This is mocked as other suits. Anyway.

I will never discover this for myself. I only know it from promos, don't worry. Gregory Smith from my beloved Everwood is also in American Outlaws, but we don't really need to linger on that. You mentioned Minority Report. I think Phone Booth is very fun. That's another Schumacher movie. He's so good in Phone Booth.

Phone Booth is like a 15-minute movie. It's so short, but it's like so punchy. And it's just like one location. He's just like he's stuck in a phone booth being terrorized by off-screen Kiefer Sutherland. And the movie kind of looks like dog shit, but it is so fun. It's bad. It's one of those bad digital videos. Yeah.

Yeah. No, it's very fun. Like, you will not regret pulling up a phone booth. The recruit is the one with Al Pacino, right? Yes. And the recruit, I don't think, did much. Like, I think there was a lot of expectation on the recruit because it's like feral. Like, it's Pacino.

in Farrell, like the old star, the new star. Isn't it like an April movie though? So it's like, it's not only going to make so much money in April. And then also in 2003, well, he's in Veronica Garren, which like nobody remembers. Nobody remembers him being in it. I, of course, remember Cave Blanchet as the titular Veronica Garan, of course. He's in so many movies in 2003 because he's also in SWAT. But Daredevil, I think, is the big one where he's the big, he's the cool villain opposite Ben Affleck in Daredevil. But I think, What I feel like the lasting legacy of Colin Farrell's performance in Bullseye is, is when he's in that sex tape that gets leaked maybe a year later, he still has... No, I looked it up because it's even after this movie in Alexander that it was leaked, it was like 06.

Okay. He's got the bull's-eye shaved head. Like, that's how I will always place that sex tape in time is he's still got... part of the, like, basically belongs as a special feature on a Daredevil. Colin Farrell's sex tape is part of the Marvel Cinematic Universe because the Daredevil is a Marvel superhero. Yes, absolutely. Yeah, you're right, because around, it's not till 2004, because then there was all the rumors he was out, he was carousing, he and Britney Spears showed up on the red carpet together somehow. Everybody assumed that they had sex. I also do,

because if you have Colin Farrell on a date, like, you better go for that. He'd also, in, I believe, 05, went to rehab. Right. Because the sex tape came out after that, too, when he was trying to rehabilitate his image a little bit. But the other thing about a home at the end of the world is there were rumors, as this film was in production,

that there would be a full frontal nudity scene for Colin Farrell. and it got taken out I think for good reasons for the film I don't think this is a film that needs the Bobby character to have a full frontal nudity scene I don't think it serves anything It would make no sense

But the rumors at the time before the movie came out were that the scene was taken out because Colin Farrell's penis was so big that it was distracting And that... Okay, now I believe that it's real because at first I was like, that just sounds like a rumor thing because it doesn't make sense for the plot.

But we know. We know. But that was the rumor at the time as to the why it got taken out. And then also in 2004, he makes Alexander, which we talked about, which has a Oliver Stone director's cut that is like more nudity, more Colin Farrell, you can see his balls from behind. And like, so there's like... That's how we know.

That's how we know. But everybody wants to live People in 2004 were very, very focused on Colin Farrell nudity And then it got paid off with the sex tape afterwards. And so right, so then after his rehab, his sort of like, he makes the new world with Malick ask the dust as we have talked about. Miami Vice with Michael Mann. So he's working with, like, the big directors.

Cassandra's Dream with Woody Allen. And then, but I think it's in Bruges that feels like the comeback movie, even though he never really went away. But in Bruges feels like, oh, this is Colin Farrell. He's got his shit together. He's so good. And he's also, he breaks your heart in that film. In a film that you wouldn't think would have the capacity to break your heart.

But he's just so incredibly good. in that movie. I don't know how you feel about him, Bruges, but, like, I absolutely love it. You said it all beautifully. The thing about him feeling like the star in that movie is, like, I mean, we didn't know who Martin McDonough was unless you paid attention to theater. Right. But, like, even so, he was still mostly untested in the film world. I think he, was he an Oscar nominee or an Oscar winner for short? I believe winner. Um, but let me look that up. Yes, he was an Oscar winner for two, the 2005

movies best live action short film for six shooter which was Brendan Gleason right yes I always confuse that

with what was the Clive Owen car commercial that was a short film was that guy Richie do you know what I'm talking about what's that all Guy Ritchie movies are car commercials yes yes but there was one that was just like

it was like Clive Owen and he's in a car and I'm pretty sure I love in a car. Yeah. Whatever. That's taking us too far afield. But yes, he won. Martin McDonough was an Oscar winner by that point before Inbreu.

But it also feels like Colin Farrell is the star, like he's finally the star in Imbruges, which was a smaller movie. Yep. After the movies after Alexander, because like, New World is the star is Terrence Malick. Right, exactly. And, like, sunsets are the star of that movie. That movie's incredible. The natural world is the star of the new world.

Ask the Dusk is not real, even though we've done a whole episode on it. No one saw it. Miami Vice, Michael Mann. At that point, Jamie Fox was the Oscar winner, so it's like, Jamie Fox. Right. Well, it's a lot of, like, we'll give Colin Farrell a lead role, but he's got to have, like, a buddy. It's like it's him and Jamie Fox in Miami Vice. Obviously, Woody Allen's casting doesn't really, like,

pertain much to. Probably less people have seen Cassandra's dream than Saw Ask the Dust. Oh, right. But it's him and you and McGregor. That's also like the two-lead kind of a thing. Isn't Sally Hawkins in that one? It's possible, let's see.

The one... I never saw this one? No, it's Haley... No, it's Haley and Sally Jenkins. It's both of them. And then also, the supporting actress I really love in that is Claire Higgins. But I don't remember a ton. about the plot of Cassandra's dream. That was sort of like,

that was when, like, Woody Allen's making movies in England now, and it's like match point, and then scoop. And then it's just like, and Cassandra's dream sort of like also happens. And, uh, but it didn't get a ton of attention. And then he's sort of, after in Bruges, it's funny because he wins the Golden Globe. You would think like, top of the world, Colin Farrell, he's back. And then he takes a lot of supporting roles where it's like he's one of the three Keith Ledger replacements in the Imaginarium of Dr. Parnassus.

or it's like supporting roles and then like really small snuff like on dean the uh the mermaid movie the neil jordan movie that is a jeremy davies movie who's the director on that neil jordan terence davies neil jordan yeah god if only jeremy davies would start directing movies i would love it not jeremy davies i meant tarence davies you know what i mean uh but he's like he's this he's like the forgotten supporting performer in Crazy Heart. He's, you know, like one of, he's like a, one of the bosses and horrible bosses, like this kind of a thing. I feel like

I've said it before, but like Colin Farrell is a really great character actor who's usually a lead. Right, right. But I think he's, I mean, like he had that period where it was a lot of small roles. Now he's pretty much always leads, but he's still he's coming to his

own making, like character choices, playing character roles. Right. And when he is a lead, it's like, it's smaller stuff where he's like he's the villain in Fright Night. And then like, okay, I want to talk about Winter's Tale for a second because that is a bad movie that burned very brightly for a very short period of time. But I was very glad that I saw it in the theater because it was, it's one of those bad movies that really does need to be experienced. it is quite something. I'll catch up to it soon.

2015, he makes the lobster. He's also a supporting role in saving Mr. Banks, because, like, again, that's another one of those. That's one of the ones that people hated him for. That's one that I see a lot of people. When that movie gets mentioned, they're like, but Colin Farrell is so terrible in it. I mean, maybe.

But, like, what are we really need out of Colin Farrell in saving Mr. Banks, honestly? like he's not we really need out of saving he's not really the reason why that movie's bad like um he's also in the the miss julie movie with the leave umman directed miss julie with him and jessica chastain that i think is really terrible but like i know some people

who uh who enjoyed it better than i did it's very a lot it's very over the top in all the performances him included but he's in the forgotten season of true detective he's really good in that is the thing It's the forgotten season of True Detective. I believe it. I think Vince Vaughn is the problem in that season,

but I think he and also Rachel McAdams are both really, really good in that season. The Lobster, though, that's the big sort of like, once again, Colin Farrell in a lead role in a really interesting movie. This is a milieu, like the Yorgos Lantamos milieu. I think he should like just keep making Yorgos Lantamos movies forever. I know killing of a sacred deer is. divisive but it's my favorite Colin Farrell performance he's so weird in that but I really love

what he's doing so fucking funny and never ask for a laugh yeah it's such an odd movie but I really really like I adore that movie yeah that was our first TIF when we were both there right I remember enthusiasts uh yes but we didn't see that together right guys

Joe and I's first movie together no one would guess this in a million Oh, I would know what you're going to say. Michael Hodgica's happy end. Yes. Happy end. What is it inauspicious? So inauspicious.

And of course, we're the two people laughing through this giant theater, just our cacophonous echoes of laughs at the final shot of that movie because we are not well-balanced people. You really, really liked that movie. I thought that movie was okay. I think that movie got an unfair shake.

Yeah. It's good karaoke. seen in that film. But again, recently, it's been a lot of supporting role in the Beguiled, like featured supporting role, but supporting role. He's really, really great in Roman J. Israel Esrile, but that's not his movie. I love that movie. I really enjoy him in widows. We've talked obviously about widows before. Obviously, his performance as Artemis Fowl Senior in Artemis Fowl is the great unlawed performance of 2020. Like, we've talked about this. We know this. This is obvious. This is elementary.

I really like Colin Farrell. I root for Colin Farrell. One of the finest working actors. And again, if he's listening, which I'm sure he is, I believed in you with that ass the dust bet, and I really, really wanted to pay off for you. So good luck. Good luck we're all counting on you.

Not to pull a Leslie Nielsen, but yes. To pull it towards the Oscar conversation. Let's. There is kind of a... We haven't really talked about Michael Cunningham, which, like, this movie came two years after the hour, Like, that's a big reason why this movie was held in Oscar conversations before people saw the movie. You don't know what good did my heart to see a trailer that begins with from the writer of the hours.

I'm like, fuck yeah, we're selling this on the hours. You're goddamn right. You know what was successful? The fucking hours. All right. Always the hours. Yes. My two was radicalized by the hours.

But I think there's another thing. And we've never really talked about this. before but like just the it is straight actors playing somewhere along the uh queer alphabet right right yes so joe yes i have a game for you yes this game i have uh lovingly titled jack twist jack supporting actor shut the fuck up i hate you all right so But this, once again, we're playing Jack Twist, Jack Supporting Actor. Here's how this is going to go. Like our beloved alter egos game, we're going to start with character names. I'm going to give you the character name of the nominated performance as a first clue.

If you struggle, you'll get the acting category as a second clue. Get that, Jack Twist, Jack Supporting Actor. You're Jack nasty for this. If you still struggle, I will give you the nomination year. So it's going to be character, category. year. All of these characters are going to fall somewhere on the LGBTQ map, but are played by cisgendered heterosexual performers. I've chosen five from each acting category. Eliminated characters only credited with a first name. Sorry, Bruce Davidson's David from Longtime

Companion. Shit, I was ready to throw that up there as a guess. Okay. Yeah, wouldn't you believe? and I've removed a lot of the Frida Callos, the Virginia wolves. Right, right, right. You'll find a few of them in there. And I've tried to make them go from easy to hard for you. Okay, all right, hit me. Are you ready to play Jack Twist, Jack's supporting actor?

Jack Nasty. Yes, yes I am. Okay, so your first character of queer character played by a cis-hete performance. is Anne, Queen of Britain. Anne Queen of Britain. And these are all in supporting? No, you do not know what category they are in.

If you really want to keep track and dupe the system before getting your clues, there is only five from each category. That would require me to reach for a pen. I'm not doing that. This is Olivia Coleman in The Favorite. It is. Coleman winner for lead actress in 2018. That's right.

Your second is Therese Belivet. God bless that name flung out of space. Rooney Mara in Carol. Nominated for Best Supporting Actress in 2015. Fraudulently so. Your next one. Lily Elba. This is Eddie Redmayne in The Danish Girl.

Indeed. nominated for lead actor also in 2015. Yes. Your next character name, Seeley Harris Johnson. Oh, Miss Sealy. That is Whoopi Goldberg in the Color Purple. The legendary Whoopi Goldberg,

nominated in lead actress, 1985. Your next character name is Jack Hawk. Hawk, like H-A-W-K? Jack Hawk is spelled H-O-C-K. Okay Jack Hawk Is that No

Matthew McConaugay is straight in Dallas Spiders Club That's the whole gag of that I'm going to need a hint The name Spelling out the name was somewhat of a hint If you remember one of the lines from the movie This is a supporting actor nominee Jack Hawk

Supporting Actor Hawk is a clue spelling it out H-O-C-K Hawk I'm going to need the year 2018 2018

Supporting actor Is that Mahershalla in Greenbook? No, that is Don Shirley that he plays in Greenbook Right, of course, of course Jack Hawk

H-O-C-K Oh God, it's Richard E-G Grant. It's Richard E. It is Richard Entertainment Grant. I'm so, I feel so ashamed. I love that performance so much. Jack Cock, Big Cock, he says. Yes. All right. Your next character name is Barbara Covet. Oh, Barbara. What does Cape Blanchett call her a miserable little virgin? Something like that when she's yelling at her? Oh, my God. This is my beloved Judy Dench and notes on her. scandal you think this is a love affair yes that is judy denshen notes on a scandal nominated your virginial friggin' wolf that's so good camp excellence 90 minutes long notes on a scandal nominated for judy denton lead actress uh 2006 all right next character richard brown oh richard so sad um this is ed harris in

the greatest film of all time of hours. Nominated for sporting actor in 2002. Some of my arrangements, I could have thought more about how I thought you would get them versus me, because I clearly should have put Richard right from the top. Next character, Salvador Mayo. Mayo? Yes. M-A-Y-O or M-A-L-L-O.

M-A-L-L-O, Salvador-M-A-O. Okay. This isn't. Haven't Javier Bardem in Before Night Falls. That's not his character's name. No, that is Reinaldo Arenas that he plays. Exactly. Salvador Mayo.

Is this Raoul Julia and Kiss of the Spider Woman? He was not nominated and he was heterosexual in that movie. I have never seen Kiss of the Spider-State. Right, it's William Hurt, who is right, sorry. This is where I expose my... as having never seen Kiss of the Spider Woman. On stage, I do not like.

All right. I need a hint. Lead actor. I would also say as a little bonus hint for you, you started off by guessing a real person with Javier Bardem's Before Night Falls performance. This is a fictional character. Okay.

You've really put a lot of English on. I mean, it's fiction, but it's, it's, it's, it's, uh, it's non-fiction. It's thinly veiled fiction, okay. Um, lead actor. Lead actor, playing gay, Salvador Mayo, the year. 2019. 2019. Okay. So we got, uh, it's not that Pope. And it's not, uh, to cap. Yes, that gay Pope. And it's not Adam Driver and Marriage Story.

And it's not the Joker. So it's the fifth one that I can't remember. It's the deserving winner that year. Damn it. We were so happy. Uh, yeah, we all love, loved Joaquin Phoenix and Joker. No, this is the deserving one. Oh, this is the deserving win. I see.

Um, fuck. I'm going to be so mad at myself. It's a performance so good at the gay. shit that you would never believe that this was a straight performer. I'm going to give it to you. It's Antonio Banderas, pain and glory. Whoa, I'm so dumb. I'm so dumb. I loved that performance. Should have won. Yes, should have won. Absolutely. Okay, your next character, Abigail Masham. Abigail Masham.

Good old Abby. Queer ended up in the old queer film, Abigail. Hint? Supporting actress. Abigail Mosham. Perhaps in a movie that's already come up in this quiz. Oh. Okay.

A movie from 2018. Is that Rachel Weiss's character? the favorite? No, it is Emma Stone's character. It's Emma Stone's character in the favorite. Right. Rachel Weiss was the Countess of something or other. Right. Yeah. Yes. Your next character is Libby Holden. God bless it. I loved, loved this performance. I think she should have won. God damn. I should have put this earlier.

Sorry. No, you, how were you to know? How are you to know that I am a a moth to a flame when it comes to Mike Nichols directing many, many great actors. It's Kathy Bates in primary colors. I definitely... Nominated for supporting actress in 1998.

I wanted her to win so bad. Oh, yeah. She had won the SAG or something like that. Your next character is Sabrina Brie Osborne. Oh, this is Felicity Huffman in Transamerica. Nominated for lead actress in 2005. Your next character is Dolly Pelicker.

Dolly Pelicker. Dolly Pelicker. A supporting actress nominee. Thank you for that hint. supporting actress, her name's Dolly, she likes to have fun, she goes out on the town. Not sure she does either of those things. It's from 1983. Is this Sharon Silkwood? It is Sharon Silkwood.

I would go out on the town with Sharon Silkwood, I'll tell you that much. I know she's working class, but you know what? She can probably kick up her heels. If Sherrod won that Oscar, a lot of problems would have been solved. That's all I'm saying. You think that was Glenn Glenn would have taken it otherwise? I think you're probably right. No, no, no, no, no, no. You give Cher the Silkwood Oscar.

You give Holly Hunter the broadcast New York. Oh, this is your problem is... You still give Glenn Close the dangerous liaisons one. That doesn't have to change anything. But then Angela Bassett gets the Oscar for What's Love gets to do with it. All roads lead to giving Angela Bassett the Oscar for What's Love got to do it. Indeed.

Indeed. I get it. All right. Your next character name is Andrew, Andy. Beckett. This is Tom Hanks in Philadelphia. Lead actor winner in 1993. Your next character is Roberta Muldoon.

Oh. Oh, I know this. Fuck, I know this. Well, obviously, this was the wife and then later widow of the Muldoon from Jurassic Park who gets eaten by Raptors. True. Those clever girls. No. Very true. She was his clever girl.

That's what he called his wife before all the bad things happened. He said, Clever Girl, when they got married. No. Supporting actor. Supporting actor? Yes. Roberta Muldoon. Is this Jay Davidson in the crying game?

No. Jay Davidson's character name is Dill. Dill. Also, this is all cisgendered heterosexual. sexuals and Jay Davidson was playing a trans character, but he is gay. Right. 1982.

Oh, oh, this is probably John Lithgow in the world according to Garp. Indeed, it is John Lithgow in the world according to Garp. Your next one is a free space because I forgot that I put Reynaldo Arenas in this quiz. I would have got it anyway, even if you hadn't given that.

This is Javier Bardemmon before Night Falls. All right, we're coming in on the closing stretch of the five most difficult, so here we go. Let's see if you can get these. Your character name is Simon Bishop. Oh. Shoot, this is familiar to me. Simon Bishop.

Should be. Shut up. Now you're making me feel that we're not doing it. This is a performance that did not need to be nominated. I get it, but we don't need this nomination. category supporting actor Simon Bishop

Oh is this Greg Kinnear and as good as it gets Indeed it is Greg Kinnear and as good as it gets I thought he was quite good in that I haven't seen that movie in a long time But I thought he And also this is the thing This was Greg Kinnear It was like congratulations Greg Kinnear

You have turned yourself into a film actor Like that was I think that's a lot of what went into For two days Well but no he had a little bit of a moment. He's good later in other stuff. Like, he's good in autofocus, but, like,

we're nominated for autofocus instead. And if you're going to nominate a supporting actor, like, even though Cuba getting it already won, like, Cuba getting Juniors funny or that movie. He's in there for two scenes. He's barely in that movie, though. I get it, but he's barely in that movie. Your next character name is Hubert Page.

You know who's really good and as good as it gets and maybe should have gotten a nomination, although she's also in the first of the series of scenes? Shirley Knight's wonderful in that film. And I always loved Jack Nicholson for thanking her. It doesn't exist. She has two really great scenes with Helen Hunt in that film, and she's so wonderful. Anyway, sorry. Who did you say?

Hubert Page. Oh, this is not ringing a bell. Category. Supporting actress. Hubert Page. Yes. the supporting actress in 2011. Oh, this is my beloved Janet McTeer in Albert Knobbs.

Indeed it is. Your next character name is George Falconer. Well, of course, my immediate association for Falconer is that was the name of George Clooney's character in sisters before he got blowed up in a car bomb. But that's neither here nor there. But it was devastating to seal award. Let me tell you what. George Falconer category? I'm going to guess lead actor.

Right. Okay. Year? 2009. 2009. Oh, is this Colin Firth and a single man? It is indeed Colin Firth and a single man. What a distinguished name, like, of course.

Yeah. That is a name. that you would expect to be modeling a crisp shirt with a tie and a suit, just like all Tom Ford characters must. That's a name you expect to see, like, doing whiskey commercials in Japan. One million percent true, absolutely. Make it Suntory Time with George Falconer, yes. Your next character.

This is the second to last one. Hal Fields. Hal Fields. I have a feeling like this is also a lead actor. It is not. It's a supporting actor. Supporting actor. Hale Fields, and Bruce Davison is not an option. Even though that sounds like a Bruce Davison kind of a character.

We have talked about this performance a bunch before. The year is 2011. Oh, is this Christopher Plummer and Beginners? It is Christopher Plummer. in beginners, may he rest. Very good. All right. Your last character name for Jack Twist,

Jack's supporting actor, it is Nicole Allgood. Nicole Allgood? Which sounds like it might be like a drag character. But now I can't think of... I mean, if you really want to... If you really want to be mean to this performance... Wow. Okay.

That's fair. Okay. Um, but that sounds like a plausible drag name, right? Nicole, all good. Um, uh, category. Lead actress. Right. Nicole. Also probably second place. All right. Year. Um, I think I wrote the wrong year down in this. It's 2010. 2010. Nicole Allgood. This is Annette Benning and the kids are all right.

Indeed, it is Nicole All Good as Annette Benning as Nicole Allgood. All right. All right. I'm happy with how I did. And that was Jack Twist. Jack Supporting Actor. That's a really good quiz. Very good.

Well done. Well done. The thing about like Oscar nominated performances where the character is queer and then it's a straight person performing them is like there is somewhat of a long history for it but like it's gendered in a really interesting way if you actually look at the

cases where it has been nominated in that like it's and like this probably speaks to like an ingrained homophobia thing in the culture that it's like it's a lot of men getting rewarded for it like I had a lot of options

to like filter out of this for the male categories and less for the female categories. And even for the female categories, it's a lot of famous people like Queen Anne and Virginia Woolf, Frida Kahlo. Right. Eileen Wernos would have been too obvious, but yes. Exactly. I think, I mean, to feel really sort of like to point out the cynicism and ugliness of it, I think for a while, a straight actor playing gay was probably for an Oscar voter in the same bucket as a straight actor playing death or, you know, paralyzed, or something you know what I mean, where it was just like, it was a stepping out of

themselves into a different character, but it was like, not, and like, not to say that these movies cast these characters as, you know, deficient or whatever, but I think for, if you want to be cynical about it, you could easily say that, like, Oscar voters looked at that as like, oh, what a degree of difficulty. You had to play. You stepped so much outside of yourself. Right. Right. Exactly. Which is, again, it delves into this thing of, you know, oh, it's such a brave performance. A thing that I think people still imagine that is a compliment that gets given to straight players who play gay, but I'm not sure if that's what we say about those performances anymore. But we certainly did for quite a while. And, yeah. And honestly, here's one thing I do

think about this movie because probably the most traction it got and like the buzz that it got for it um ahead of just like a general thing but like the performance that was probably most talked about was Dallas Roberts yes and Dallas Roberts is straight right but I think if he was a known actor before this he could have probably gotten more room in the season even though the movie wasn't received all that well yeah performance is so good and like he got a Gotham nomination for it, right? I can imagine him showing up in more places if people knew who he was, that he was straight playing a gay character. Two things about that. A, a lot of the times when we as, you know, especially gay men sort of sit on the jury of straight actors playing gay men, especially, and we sort of have our little rubric of what we just

judge them on. A lot of the times it's awkwardness with physical intimacy that is a major category for us. Dallas Roberts dives right the fuck into making out with that guy in that scene in the Because the Night montage. Good for him. We should talk about the needle drops before we. There's a recognizability to the aggressive makeout move in that scene that I the lips lock exactly as the like first clang of because it's well timed it's well timed uh for every single song cue in this movie is like that and it drove me crazy let me tell you if i never hear me and julio by the school yard in another fucking movie i loved it i'm sorry i will be so happy i'm so basic but i loved it um i love that i love i'm a like simon and garfunkel slut i am um

will not shut up I will Not you, I said Shut up Paul Simon There are other Paul Simon songs There are other Paul Simon songs I get it There's a commercial out there now

With Homeward Bound in it And it makes me emotional I hate that too Anyway The other thing about Dallas Roberts At this point in time Is this was the era of If you were a

sort of skinny white unknown actor to me playing a gay role well I absolutely thought that you were gay as well and it shook me to find out that it wasn't Dallas Roberts but also I put in this bucket Justin Kirk from Angels in America who I was bereft to find out was not gay in real life because I really really bought it his prior Walter in Angels in America So that is what I will say.

Oh, boy. Oh, boy. I was not wrong. Okay, let's talk a little bit more around, like, the movie not doing well. I mean, I'm kind of, I'm a little surprised, and it kind of sucks because this movie is, like, off of the map. It's off the end of the world. Yeah. In terms of, like, it doesn't even fully feel possible for this movie to get much of a reassessment,

but it's sitting at a 50% Rotten Tomatoes score. That seems very harsh. Very harsh. It does seem very harsh. But if you look at it, like Roger Ebert really liked it. I was sort of browsing through the Rotten Tomatoes reviews. Sorry, one second. I thought I want to bring this up.

But Ebert really liked it. Gave it like three out of four stars. Some of these, obviously, most of these reviews because they're from 2004, you can't really click through and read them, unfortunately. But, like, David Anson at Newsweek liked it. Wesley Morris liked it. Anybody else I want to shout out as having liked it? Like, you sort of scroll through this and you kind of sample the little, like, top line quotes.

And it's surprising. Oh, big surprise. Peter Travers liked it. Wow, amazing. Peter Travers likes everything. That's why I was being sarcastic. But also, noted bitch Rex Reed liked it. It's so good for that.

And, like, not, A.O. Scott did not care for it. Open Glyberman did not care for it. But, like, I mean, you're also talking about a lot of heterosexual male critics, too, that it's like they were certainly not the audience for this movie. And this movie that's, like, kind of trying to walk a really delicate line that, like, is just out of their purview. Like, I hate to reduce it to such simplistic things. But, like, I wonder if there would be a kinder audience for this movie on top of, like,

conversations around things that this movie is about being a little bit being an environment to make a more interesting movie today

but like it kind of sucks I wish people could revisit this movie a little bit more and like it's a $3 rental on Apple

like go for it this is why though I wanted I was I was bummed I couldn't seek out the Wesley Morris review because that is a perspective on that film that I would have liked to have seen

I tried to Google it and wasn't happening and they did not have the patience for the wayback machine but um our good friend the way back machine um the movie only made a million dollars never played more than like 65 screens though like that was surprising to me because i remember it being maybe it was just programmed well here by like our indie theater oh you got to see it in theater that's cool i had to wait for i don't know if i saw it in a theater but like i know i remember it playing a theater.

And it's like, that's still just surprising to me, this is Warner Independence's second release ever, right? By only a few weeks, by only a few weeks, because like three weeks before this comes out, they do before sunset. Right. As the first Warner Independence. Love Warner Independence starting off with the best movie they would ever release. I know.

Like, there was, and, you know, I like a good bit of these, the subsequent. their first movie was before sunset the best movie they ever released the last movie was Slumdog Millionaire the most successful movie they ever released so like well they didn't release it they were supposed to company was going under and it went to searchlight you're right yeah i forget what episode we did where we did the whole warner independent history um but it is fascinating yeah um what must that have been that must have been when we did uh at this point i can't remember what we've done now I'm looking through their list of things because we haven't done a home or we don't live here anymore yet. Painted Vale. It must have been the painted veil. Painted veil. Yeah. Or Naomi Watts

miniseries last year. Oh, we should hype that we're the May miniseries coming up, guys. We're excited for this one. We've had this one in the pocket for a long time. It is a subject that is near and dear to us. Should we say what it is or will they not know by now? We won't say because we want to do the reveal. But in the next week, pay attention to our Twitter account. Had underscore Oscar underscore Buzz. We'll do a whole reveal.

There's going to be a listener's choice. I think there's going to be some competition in this listener's choice. Yeah, excited for that. Hopefully the listener's choice is like a nice surprise for you guys where I think it's a lot of movies that you could get contingence of people really talking for them. No bots.

keep your bots away from our polls. Yeah. You know what I think is interesting about a home at the end of the world? It got a National Border Review Prize for Special Recognition for Excellence in Filmmaking, which is one of those NBR things. They were right to say it. Sure, but like, what does that mean?

Like, that's such a, like, good for you kind of, like, a participation trophy. It means come for a dinner. Of course it does. But, like, at least, like, make it, like, the, you know, C. Montgomery Burns Award for, excellence in the distinguished achievement in the field

of excellence. Like something like that. Just give it a little bit more of a jure. Well, like you can take a look at it and see that they're trying to get a lot of different distributors there probably to buy a table at their dinner before Sunsets also in this category. Wait. They gave special

recognition for excellence in filmmaking. This must have been their precursor to when they did a top 10 for indie films. They gave 13 films, and filmmaking special recognitions. Holy shit. It is all the Indies. Like, this is exactly what it was.

This is before they got the idea to do a top 10 indies in addition to the regular top 10. Because it's, you're right, before sunset, eternal sunshine of the spotless mind, enduring love, garden state,

the aforementioned imaginary heroes with a boy kissing. Stage beauty, which we should do at some point. I would love to do stage beauty at some point. Assassination of Richard Nixon, at the door and the floor. done an episode on. David Gordon Green's undertow. The Woodsman, the one where Kevin Bacon plays a

a, I guess a lot of people guessing the Woodsman this month on our, uh, teaser. What was the clue that had them guessing the Woodsman? I forget right now off the top of my head because I've never seen the Woodsman. I feel like it was the puke maybe, no, I forget what it was. Yeah. But a lot of people that I've never heard of before called Facing Windows, which stars Giovanna Mezzogiorno, who I believe was in love in the time of cholera, but I could be wrong. Anyway. Cool.

Also, this movie since O-Tar left. Oh, yes, which I remember hearing about a little bit. I feel like that might have been a foreign language contender or something. But, yeah. Anyway, that was before NBR decided or figured out that they could just come up with a whole other top 10 list and nobody would care because it's the NBR and uh they can do what they want

they see a lot of movies guys listen i love it they want you to know they saw everything there are more than 10 good movies every year so if awards awards group wants to honor 40 of them do it like there's enough to go around but then when you don't show the when the 21st movie doesn't show up It's like, well, what the fuck? Right. What did we do wrong? Yeah, I get it. I get it.

What else did this movie show up for? It was a glad nominee for outstanding film in wide release. Wide release is pretty funny to me when it played 65 theaters. Yes, that's true. Also nominated against Saved Monster Alexander and the winner, Kinsey. Yeah. I mean... Hold, please.

Bad Education won their limited release movie category, as it should. And I'm going to look up the widest release for Bad Education because even with an NC17 rating, I'm willing to bet that it was in more theaters at some points. It also made $5 million, which is five times what a home at the end of the world made. I still feel like Bad Education was probably a small release. though. Like, the spirit of that feels correct. It played over a hundred theaters at one point.

Wow. Okay. Good for that work. Which is, uh, obviously bad education is the winner there. It's just what I'm saying is that it is funny that they called a home at the end of the world a wide release. Yeah. Um, going through my notes here as we sort of begin to wrap up. Um, I wrote down

Sissy's Basic Breaking Plates in the OTS, a genre because, uh... Exactly. She has a scene after her husband dies And everybody sort of comes in And she drops a plate And then she just smashes a couple more On the floor in her grief

And that is of course an extension Of the In the Bedroom Cinematic Universe Where That's probably why her Ruth was on my Was on my brain If her character in that movie Was her drag performance Set to Rihanna's breaking dishes

Dressed as Sissy Space Sack I see this is always the thing That I say about drag race Is and I get why they can't do it because rights issues are a bitch. But watching drag queens perform and lip sync and whatever is fantastic. But the authentic experience of watching a drag queen in a club is inextricably tied to

what weird little dialogue from movies will they intersverse in their performances. And it always gives me such an appreciation and like a window into their creative soul. And I'm just like, that's what I want. I want to know if somebody throws in Sissy Space, saying everything from in the bedroom in a drag performance. So Rihanna's breaking dishes. That tip is going from $1 to $5. I'm telling you what.

Like that is, that's just the economics of it. Listen, I'm the center of that then diagram. The only problem is I am not a drag queen. Exactly. I also noted the scene where they all go to the movies and Claire and Jonathan are mouthing along to the dialogue from All About Eve, endeared them both so much to me and also really, really made me miss seeing repertory films in theaters again, and I can't wait to go back. I completely agree. And I

realized that the era of this movie, they wouldn't have had like a VHS to watch it at home, but also shut the fuck up. Everyone is there to watch All About Eve. They're not talking. They're just mouthing along. Like, that's, I think they're being, I think they're being very well-behaved. It was cute. That was the closest, like, moment where I felt like, oh, they are in love with each other. Right. You got a little bit window into what their lives were before Bobby showed up. Okay. I feel like we sort of, we brushed by this, no pun intended, but we really do need to discuss Robin Wright's bangs in this film. I know you mentioned the Sharon Stone and Courtney Cox's illusions, but like, they're quite bad. They're quite bad. And be, and it's so. I don't think they're supposed to be good, though. But she makes such a point of cutting his hair and being. like, trust me, I know what I'm doing. And it's just like, do you?

Because have you looked at you at this point? Yeah, but it was an era punk thing. No, I know. I know. And like New Wave influences. Like, bimble did bangs like that then. Yeah. Listen, it was a weird time.

It was a crazy time. It was truly like a... The year 2004 of like, I'm going to have multiple colors of hair dye actresses. It is Robin Wright and a home at the end of the world. It is Kate Winslet and Eternal Sunshine. Yeah. There's got to be another example. We'll think of one.

One last thing before we maybe transitioned into IMDB game. What did you think of the decision to end the movie where it did on the timeline, where so much is left open-ended, but is it really? Like, Jonathan hasn't died, but Jonathan will die. And I was sort of, I was grateful for the, the gift of not having to watch Jonathan die on screen. I think that would have been unnecessarily punishing. And yet it still leaves you on that, because like Jonathan sort of walks ahead, very symbolically, walks ahead to the house. And Bobby lingers a little bit. And you get that sound just like, oh, right, like the thing that Bobby was always afraid of is Bobby is being left alone now.

and it's a poignant ending but it's also a journey feels like his life is defined by like traumatic death surrounding him you know and it's like it feels like an inevitability for the rest of his life I kind of felt two things one I was like I had the absolute certainty that this is like the emotional elipsis that the book ends and they just have the exact ending is the book

it's a very book so like especially you know having conversations like around things like it's sin right now. All listeners should be watching. It's a sin if you haven't seen it already. Very much so. Yeah. It is meaningful to have I think queer stories

and gay stories where it's like it is true to an emotion, like the horrors of a certain era and a certain generation. But like it is very valuable to not have that be the

only end note or the only defining factor of a story. I think if you end that way, it defines a character in a certain way. Yeah. And I was glad that this is not how the movie chose to define Bobby and Jonathan. And I also feel like it's open-ended in that it doesn't close things off from him like obviously he still has the relationship with

Sissy Spacex character. And it doesn't close off the possibility that Claire and the baby could return at some point. Like, he talks about how he wants to give the house to the baby at some point and have that sort of be her inheritance almost. And it's not denying anything either. He's not, it's self-aware enough to know that you know what the inevitability will be. Yes. But it's not.

It doesn't. The inevitability doesn't have to be the end of the story. And Bobby remains hopeful without seeming, the movie doesn't really paint him as naive, but it allows him to remain hopeful that, like, this home that he built and this family that he built for himself out of the, like, the wreckage of his youth, really, and like the terrible things that happened with his family and his youth, that it hasn't all been for nothing, and that it's, that it's, it is a legacy that he's able to, you know, hold and cherish and, and keep. And the fact that, like, they spread the father's ashes at the, you know, on the farm or wherever, the field by the house, and that they intend to do the same for Jonathan.

I don't know, obviously it's all very symbolic, but just like the idea of he's built now, he's not transient anymore. He's not sort of drifting from place to place, from Cleveland to New York to Phoenix to whatever. He's now built this home, and it will be a place that other people can return to or that they can stay. And I don't know, that felt kind of beautiful to me. I think also with the life that he's built for himself, you do kind of somewhat get the sense at this point. And why I think it's also poignant that we're not ending with Bobby alone is that you know the idea of him being alone isn't as traumatic traumatic because he has created a full life yes yes god i want to read this book again i know i'm definitely going to read the book i mean

michael cunningham's books are very short and relatively easy to read yeah he's a he's a wonderful writer yes all right um do you want to move on to the i mdb game i do let's do that All right, why don't you explain what the IMDB game is to listeners, new and old? Say, listen, we do this every week. We end our episodes with the IMDB game. And what we do is we challenge each other with an actor or actress, and we say, hey, guess the top four titles that IMDB says they are most known for. If any of those titles are television shows or perhaps voiceover work that they've done, we mentioned that up front. after two wrong guesses

we get the remaining titles release years as a clue and if that's not enough here comes the free for all of hints and that's the IMDB All right Joseph would you like to give or guess first

Why don't I give first Okay who do you have for me So this is actually It's a repeat but it's a repeat of one we did at the end of 2018 So it's been over two years

So that could be a complete different set of four movies. And it was one that you had given to me. So I feel like this is fair game. So we talked about Michael Mayer's film credits, one of them being the film The Seagull, which, as I mentioned, I didn't really like very much, but I loved the performance that one Lizzie Moss gives in it. So I'm going to give you Elizabeth Moss. I do, if I'm Remembering the Seagull correctly, it's another great Elizabeth Moth's smokes performance. Smokes and Sneers. Yes, she's just like, she's just so furious during the whole movie. I love it. There is one television show on Elizabeth Moss's. Which is probably The Handmaid's Tale and not Madman. It is, in fact, the Handmaid's Tale, correct.

Because she's won a bunch of awards for it. It's going to help her S.E.L. out. Yeah. Question is, do I think it's too soon for the invisible man? I think it's less that it's too soon and that it's more the invisible man made a lot of, well, made a lot of COVID money. But it's also like that movie got a lot of attention when no movies got attention. I'm going to put a button on that, but also loop back. and because of the money thing, I think Us is on there.

Very good. Us is on there. Cool. Hmm. Okay, because of the lack of movies, I don't think a Shirley or a her smell is still going to show up. Siegel sure as hell is not going to show up.

I'm guessing that one of the small ones is going to be there, but which one. The square isn't small, but I could see that on there. Is it the square? Is not the square? Strike one. Is Queen of Earth on there? Not Queen of Earth. Strike two.

God damn it. All right. So your remaining years are 2014 and 2020. Well, 2020 is the Invisible Man. That is correct. The Invisible Man. Your instinct was correct. Okay, so 2014, I think Mad Men was still on. This is when she's starting to do small movies. Is it, maybe this showed up the last time, is it the movie she did with one of the Dupliss's,

the one I love? It's the one I love, and it did show up the last time. Good memory, yes. I love that you call him Mark Dupless. I will now call him Mark Dupless. They are the Duplusses. I've only heard it as Duplas, but that does sound too fancy-smancy now. Blanton sounds a little high-ful-le-

I've never heard them say their own name. I'm allowed to say Duplus. I fully support this. I'm into it. Dupless. What a handsome man. He is handsome. That's a good movie, too, the one I love. It's very clever.

It's directed by Malcolm McDell's son. Waiton. His mother is, is his mother Mary Steenburgeon? Am I wrong? Oh, that's interesting. Hold on. I'm checking Zymbi. Yes, son of Malcolm McDowell and Mary Steenbergin, Charlie McDowell.

He directed that film. That was a movie. I went and saw a, I think it was a festival. It must have, was it a Tribeca Film Festival movie? Because I definitely saw it. That would track. Yes, Tribeca Film Festival 2014. And I went in and I saw it, and I believe its past guest of ours, Rob Shear was publicist for it.

and he or his fellow publicist gave me the press notes and they were just like don't read them and I was like Oh did it spoil it? Because I remember that being a movie that was like no nothing before you watch it They were like it's really really best

If you know nothing going into it Don't read the press notes until after the movie And I was just like okay And yeah it was and so I knew at least going in that there was a surprise to it But like it's very very clever And it's funny And it's odd

highly recommended. I really liked that movie. I remember so little about it. I remember not loving it, but thinking, yes, it was clever. For you, I went down the Michael Cunningham route. Michael Cunningham, one of his other screen credits, includes writing an episode of the show Masters of Sex. A star of Masters of Sex is none other than

Michael Sheen. I was going to say, it's either Michael Sheen or Lizzie Kaplan, but she gave me sheen. Okay. I'm not letting mean girls just slip on into this. Any television for Monsieur Sheen? There is one piece of television in his known for. Is it Masters of Sex? It is Masters of Sex.

It's not his performance on 30 Rock as Wesley Snipes, even though he is phenomenal in those guest appearances. He's so good. When he talks about the he's enthusing, he says so many good line readings on 30 Rock. but the one where he's talking about the British versions of TV shows and she's described something that sounds exactly like friends but they call it chums

and he just keeps saying chums and it's just it's so funny see how we help each other I accompany you to Floyd's wedding I hold your purse this was meant to be well like Russ and Rebecca on chums he's wonderful

all right Michael Sheen three more films Is one of them Frost slash Nixon? One is Frost slash Nixon. That's a lot of S sounds for... Frost Nixon, for a film that, again, best picture nominee and a best actor nominee,

I'm always surprised they didn't try to make a go for a fraudulent best supporting actor campaign for Michael Sheen that year. I think they did. Did they? And it just didn't catch on. Right. Frost forward slash Nixon. Thank you. Right. All right. So that's two out of four.

Two more. See, the thing about Michael Sheen is he's in a bunch of underworlds and he's in a bunch of twilights. And I could see a world where one of those shows up, but also it would require me to know which underworlds and twilights he's in. And like, I know he's in the last twilight, but like, would it be that? I'm just silently shaking because I'm laughing. I hate you. Is it one Underworld and one Twilight?

You are getting no hints yet. You have not got a wrong guess. Twilight Breaking Dawn Part 2. No. Fuck. Twilight Breaking Dawn Part 1. No. Fuck.

Okay. All right. So your years are 2006 and 2009. 2009 might be a Twilight and 2006 might be an underworld. The first Underworld, I'm pretty sure, was 2003. So it'd have to be a sequel to Underworld if it's Underworld. Wait, though. Is he in 2006?

Love actually was 2003. Is he in one of those Richard Curtis? I don't think he's in Pirate Radio, because I've seen that recently, and I don't know if I remember him in that. I still need to watch that. Also known as The Boat That Rocked. It's okay. It's a lot of, you know, nice British actors in it.

not my favorite of the Richard Curtis's, but, you know, he's done so many many good things. Okay, 2000... It doesn't matter. It's not one of them. No, it's not. 2009, so the first twilight, I'm pretty sure, was 2008. And I don't think

New Moon was the very next year. And even if it was, I don't think he shows up until at least the third one. So I'm going to say, not a twilight. So what would another Michael Sheen 2009

My babe, you are missing a huge one. Yeah. Speaking of fraudulent supporting actor campaigns. Oh, that's interesting. He's not in notes on a scandal. That's Bill Nye.

He's not in um fraudulent supporting campaigns is it the 2009 one that's the subject of a fraudulent supporting actor campaign it's 06

it's 06 we're going to be talking about this on another podcast Oh, of course. He's Tony Blair and the queen. It's the queen, of course. I realize that's Helen Mirren's movie, but he is a fucking lead of that movie and they ran him supporting.

Once again, just like Frost Nixon, he's quite good in both of those, I feel like. Again, we're not allowed to talk about that movie. We're going to save it for when we're on screen drafts talking about 20th century supporting actress, or best actress winning movies. I agree. All right, good call.

Okay, so 2009. Hyped for that episode. episode, 2009. You got a loop back to an earlier idea you had. Is it an underworld? It's underworld like annihilation, underworld evolution, underworld, Red Dead Redemption, Underworld.

Not giving it to you until you get the subtitle. Underworld, New Moon, Underworld, and the Prisoner of Ascaband, underworld. The poster for this movie is Bill 9, reading your tweets sitting in a throne very upset and stern

is it rise of the lichens rise of the lichens there you are I appreciate honestly I'm glad that you made me do that that was good for me that was a good exercise for me okay well done you know what Michael Sheen is really good in

what Brad's status he is good you know it's a really good movie Brad's status. It is. Mike White, man. Like, kills it.

All right. He did that and Beatriz at dinner like in the same year. Yeah. So good. So good. So great.

All right. All right. I think that is our episode. If you want more This Had Oscar Buzz, you can check out the Tumblr at this hadoscurbuzz.ttumlr.com. You should also follow our Twitter account

at Had underscore Oscar underscore Buzz. Again, in the next week, we'll be hyping the May miniseries. so definitely check us out there. We'll be having a listener's choice coming for you guys and a lineup of really fun movies I'm excited to talk about. This episode is supported in part by Gateway Film Center. A non-profit cinema committed to supporting storytellers.

Authentic stories can inspire new ideas, entertain, push boundaries, spark new levels of empathy, and advance social change. To learn more about their program and plan your visit for our awards season weekend, please visit gatewayfilmcenter.org. Joe, tell our listeners where they can find. find more of you and your bangs. Yes, you can find my mutilated bangs.

Actually, I am getting my first post-COVID haircut this week, so we'll see what happens to my poor bangs. Oh, your long hair is gone. And not a minute too soon. I'm so fucking sick of it. Please have Robin Wright give you your hair cut. I will. I will request Robin Wright to give me my first haircut.

I will not be posting photos of it on Twitter, because fuck y'all. but you can find me, lovely listeners, and I love you, on Twitter at Joe Reed, read spelled R-E-I-D. I'm also on letterboxed under the same name, Joe Reed, R-E-I-D.

All right, and you can find me in my bangs on Twitter at Chris V-FIEFile, that's F-E-I-L, also on letterboxed under the same name. We'd like to thank Kyle Cummings for his fantastic artwork and Dave Gonzalez and Gavin Mivius

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Just a little bit. I'm picking... I'm taking names. I'm on flame. Don't come home, babe. I'm breaking this. Everything! I ain't gonna stop until I see police alike.

Everything!