This Had Oscar Buzz - 141 – Carlito’s Way

Episode Date: April 19, 2021

We return to the filmography of Brian DePalma this week with 1993′s Carlito’s Way. The film reunited DePalma with his Scarface star Al Pacino as Carlito Brigante, a former criminal struggling to go straight after his release from prison and his shady circle that keeps pulling him back in. Released the year after Pacino’s long-awaited … Continue reading "141 – Carlito’s Way"

Hey everybody, it's Joe. Just a quick production note slash disclaimer before this episode starts. When we recorded the Carlito's Way episode, I forgot to shut my window in the room where I record the podcast. So as a result, you are going to not infrequently hear cars passing by in traffic from the road outside. my window. I tried to minimize that as much as possible in the post-production, but it was unavoidable on a lot of things. So you're going to hear some cars passing while we discuss. Hopefully it's not too much of a distraction. And this was just happening this week. It's not going to recur or anything like that. I'll be much more mindful about the window situations moving forward. But just so you know, apologies in advance. And try and, you know, imagine you're in my living room talking about Brian De Palma with us as we chat. Otherwise, thank you for listening. It's a really fun episode, so hopefully it doesn't deter you from listening too much. And yeah, have a good time.

This episode is supported in part by Gateway Film Center, a non-profit cinema committed to supporting storytellers. Authentic stories can inspire new ideas, entertain, push boundaries, spark new levels of empathy, and advance social change. To learn more about their program and plan your visit for award season weekend, please visit Gateway Film Center.org. Oh, wrong house. No, the right house. We want to talk to Marilyn Hacks. I'm from Canada water.

Khalidt of these new kids now day, the shark's on you, just to see you fly up in the air, man. Who are you working? We're tired. They're tired. They're tired. I've got a good feeling about this club. I think we're going to make some real money. But as soon as I make my 75, I'm splitting.

Maybe you don't remember me. My name is... Maybe I don't remember the last time I blew my nose. If I ever... see you here i'll die did you ever kill anybody charlie guys went down here you just do what you gotta do to survive i give you a million bucks to make a simple pay worth and nothing huh the contract's already down in your palm you're gonna end up in that river out there i'm asking for your help you know well i ain't dealing i ain't going back to prison no matter what i said you would bring my child hello and welcome to the

this had oscar buzz podcast the only podcast that cannot wait to cut your hands hair. Every week on this hot Oscar buzz, we'll be talking about a different movie that once upon a time had lofty Academy Award aspirations, but for some reason or another, it all went wrong. The Oscar hopes died, and we are here to perform the autopsy. I'm your host, Joe Reed. I'm here, as always, with the hot shot new upstart from the Bronx. Chris File, hello, Chris. Hello. I don't have any, um, I didn't compare any Bronx material. Benny Blanco would have had reams and reams of ideas

and brags and pitches for... Bronxisms. Yes, bronxisms. This was easily the first... Well, this is the big breakthrough year, actually, for Leguizamo on a lot of fronts because he's in this and Super Mario Brothers at the same time.

And I know that Super Mario Brothers was the first time I was ever aware of him as a person. I'm sure he had... Now I want to look him up. very quickly and see when his one-man show days were. Because he had a bunch

of those. He came from the theater first, but I don't know if any of the huge one-person shows were quite yet. Right. Let's see. 1991, he had an off-broadway production called Mambo Mouth, one of his, where he plays a bunch of different characters. Fabulous. Like, Freak is until 1998. Like, that's sort of his big, like, Like, that's the one that was filmed for HBO, and I think Spike Lee directed that one, and it won, I think he won an Emmy for it or something like that.

But he was already sort of had at least started doing some of his stage shows by this point. But this was the big breakthrough year for him as a film presence, which is very interesting. And it's his second Brian De Palma, because he was also in casualties of war. Very good. This is actually, for the four main stars of this movie, it's a really interesting, like, four-way intersection of career paths, because you have Pacino directly after winning his Oscar, which feels like that was the culmination of such a, like, long period in his career. And then, so now it's just like, this is sort of the, the what's next for Pacino. This is Leguizamo just breaking through. This is what at the time seemed like Penelope Ann Miller, finally getting, like, she got the Golden Globe nomination. Is she going to get an Oscar nomination? She had been in so many movies up until this point.

We'll get into it. But then her career, after this movie, she just, like, she stops getting big roles in big movies. Like, it's very, it's... Well, she gets roles in, like, medium-sized movies, but they're genre movies. Right. But, like, even with the frequency with which she had been working up until this point, like, the frequency drops off significantly.

And then, of course, she... Sean Penn, which we'll totally get into, like, this is the big turning point where his career goes from one thing that he had been in, you know, the 80s. He had been in, like, serious movies and whatever, but he was still in many ways, oh, look, Spicoli's in a cop movie. Do you know what I mean? Whereas, like, and then this, he hadn't been in a movie in, like, three years, and it's, like, total career reinvention. And then it begins, like, the Sean Penn that we will see throughout the 90s and 2000s. So, we'll definitely be able to do that. Right. The weird overalls, basically. right well and also just like the critically acclaimed stuff well but like at this point starting with this movie it becomes like Sean Penn critically acclaimed star sort of sort of like how I want to say it was around maybe American Psycho where like Christian Bale just started getting critical raves and never stopped like he had been sort of like swing kids and little women and all this sort of stuff and it's just like oh it's like you know handsome Christian Bale and

then all of a sudden it's just like, no, Christian Bale is going to be giving you an Academy Award worthy, if not, you know, even if he didn't start getting nominated for a while. That was the box that he was in then, from then on forward. And I think that was the case with Sean Penn. We're talking about Carlito's Way, y'all. Carlito's Way. One of our earlier movies, it's our second, well, House of the Spirits I always think of is 1993, but technically it didn't make it to American theaters until 1990. 94 but um that was like 94 oscar race not the 93 right but sort of like we're doing early 90s oscar stuff for the second time uh in the last couple months and it's interesting because this is just i was watching the academy awards at the time but like i couldn't stay up to watch all of them i still had to do the thing where i woke up the next morning to find out that schindler's list had indeed, you know, swept the top categories at the Oscars that year. But, like, I was definitely aware.

I was definitely aware of all the nominees, even if I wasn't seeing them at the time. And I was definitely aware that, like, Carlito's Way was this crime movie that was, whatever my conception of prestigious at age 13, like, I knew that it was that. Yes, yes. early concept for me, like, even more so than I would have been aware of the Oscars at this time, like, billing on a poster means that someone is very important. So, like, you see Pacino above Carlito's Way. Like, I maybe have more concept of this poster from when this movie came out, and I knew

that the movie was a big deal. But, like, I'd always had this vision in my mind that the movie would be way more intense. And I think it's because the poster scared me as a kid. The poster's fascinating. You mentioned the fact that Pacino's name is above the title, but not only is it above the title. It just says Pacino, by the way. It's just Pacino. And the font is like a good bit bigger than the font for Carlito's way. Like, it really just does loom over the entire poster to the point where if you looked at it very quickly, you'd think that this was a film called Pacino. And then Sean Penn's name in a smaller font is below the title, but still on the poster, which I think is kind of funny. because I watched the Siskel and Ebert clip for Carlito's Way yesterday, and they disagreed on it. Ebert liked it. Siskel did not. Siskel sort of had a problem with sort of lauding the Carlito character as a, you know, even though

he's a criminal, and he doesn't seem like he's a big De Palma fan. But one of the things that Siskel said, that both of them said, actually, was that an unrecognizable Sean Penn and Siskel was just like, I couldn't believe when I found out it was Sean Penn who played this. And I remember hearing that that from a lot of corners, I remember that being like

a thing that year of just like, I couldn't believe this was Sean Penn. And it's funny to me that like, well, his name's on the poster. And I know that like maybe like as critics, they were seeing this, you know, enough in advance that they hadn't seen a poster for it yet or whatever. Or maybe this was

just like, It makes a good story. Oh, I got. He's so, he's so unrecognizable. At the time, too, you're talking about they've seen fewer Sean Penn performances and fewer weird Sean Penn performances. Exactly. Exactly. He's still kind of Spacoli, even though he was it. What was that cop movie he did that I've known?

Was it colors him in Robert Duval, right? That sounds right. And also, like, casualties of words, you mentioned. I mean, and also there's the three-year gap, too, of him not being in any movies. And, like, the type of roles that he was cast in in the 80s were still. still, like, younger male roles. Like, I'm even thinking of, like, again, casualties four. Right.

His last movie before Carlito's Way was a movie called State of Grace that I've never seen, but I'm sort of aware of, because it's him and Ed Harris and Gary Oldman and Robin Wright and John Totoro. And it's like a, it's like a Cops and Criminals kind of a movie, right? A New York cop is recruited to return to his hometown and infiltrate the mob. So it's like one of those movies, which, like, you've seen those movies. And Penn is the star. He's on the poster.

He's got a gun in his hand, whatever. Like, it's definitely like Sean Penn making, you know, it's an Irish mob movie kind of a thing, right? So it's just like, but, and then he takes three years off and comes back with Carlito's way. And yet even still, there's this sense of like. that movie, the cop movie, was like, he was still, like, young Sean Penn playing grown-up roles, you know what I mean, playing Robber roles. Right, this is even before Dead Man Walking. Oh, yeah, right. Dead Man Walking's not till 95, right. And I think also the fact that, like, it's a supporting role. He really does, like, for as much as you can definitely tell, if you know Sean Penn from, like, the decades of him being in movies, is definitely Sean Penn. But, like, he's got the, like little blonde you know afro

hairstyle perm you know perm hairstyle um which is fascinating to just like stare into

and like lose your concept of reality as you look into his like ginger locks right I couldn't tell

if it was real or a wig because knowing our concept of who Sean Penn is and who Sean Penn is now I'm I

you could conceive that he would do that to his scalp Now I'm picturing him in, like, the hairdresser's chair with, like, the curlers, like, the tiny little curlers in his hair and, like, the little sort of, like, you know, tin foil for hair coloring and whatever, and just, like, you know, with putting the giant big over-the-head hair dryer down, and it's just like, we're getting Sean's hair perfect. He shows up to a hairdresser and says, please give me the full Richard Simmons. Please give me the Barbara Streisand in The Star is Born. That's exactly what I want. Yeah, he's an interesting one in this movie to talk about.

He is in many ways a more interesting character than Carlito, actually, just in terms of sort of where this character ends up going and how important the character ends up being. You really see him at the beginning, and especially... He's really not in the movie that much. Well, and you sort of expect him just like, oh, he's the, like, squirrelly, you know, can't really trust him as far as you can throw him lawyer. And then all of a sudden... And yet, he's the only, like, character that forwards the plot in any way. And, like, and significantly does so. Because, like, halfway through the movie, all of a sudden, you're at Rikers Island, and he's there meeting with another client, and you're just like, why are we following him in a storyline that doesn't seem to involve Carlito in any way?

And it's just like, oh, okay. like this is where this plot is going and and it's the pen character who's taking us there all right okay it's interesting then he's not in the last like half hour of this long movie it's a long movie it's two uh two and a half and a little bit of change um yeah i will say for a movie that's that long it is incredibly not plotty but then i still feel like it was kind of a breeze like I have kind of... It wasn't that interesting, but it didn't feel like it took up. It wasn't like...

Yeah. Super slow, you know. I have sort of developed a slight allergy to mob movies in general. I feel like I've seen so many of them, and so many of them are great. Of course, I love the Godfather movies. Of course, I love Goodfellas, like, you know, yada, yada. But, like, you get so many of them. It feels like every actor feels like it's a right.

of passage to make their mob movie, and they're such, like, towering, the legacy of the mob movie in American cinema especially is so, looms so large that everybody feels like they want to do a mob move at some point, and it's just, at some point I got numb to the characterizations and the plot stuff, and it, like, for as much as you want to, like, try and shake up the mob movie, it's, you know, if I've seen one double cross, I've seen a all. If I've seen one, you know, a low-level snitch wearing a wire

or a mob boss go from zero to murderously angry in one scene, you know, you've seen them all. And this movie, I at least appreciated the fact that Pacino's performance, and again, this is Pacino coming off of

scent of a woman, which was like, you know, the hoo-a of it all, we know. This is a really... Byers' remorse. This is a really quiet... For Pacino, I will say. Like, for Pacino, this is a pretty quiet, a pretty interior performance, and it's not the typical mobster in that, like, and he's not exactly like mafia, right?

He's like, he's a drug-dealing criminal kingpin who's just out of jail. And he's also a character, too. Like, if there's anything, like, original to kind of be glossed from the genre here, is that the protagonist is somebody who's trying or saying that they're trying to get out of, life of crime, you know, and move away from it and is pulled into it by, you know, inner circle, whatever. And unlike a lot of the movies where that is the plot, I believe it in this. I really, like, he really plays this character in a way where it's just like, he really

doesn't want to get involved in this. He doesn't, like, it's not even like he's being, like, emotionally pulled back into it. You really, you know, you believe that angle on him. And I think a lot of it is because of the Pacino performance. And that went a long way. Yes, I believe it because of performance. The way that the movie is plotted is just, like, not congruous to that. Like, he gets out of jail and immediately goes on this drug run with his cousin.

Right, right. Just because the cousin's like, people would like to see you and say hi. Right. Well, and to the point where, at some point in the movie, the Penelope Ann Miller character, who plays his love interest, spells it out. Like, in plain words, it's just like, you can't ever go clean because everything in your life that you know, will draw you back into this life. And it's just like, right, that's like, that's the plot. Like, thank you, I guess, for telling us that.

But, yeah, but I think it's the Pacino performance in particular for me. And in many ways, the Penn performance in character, which is giving me something that I didn't really expect from this movie. But Pacino's performance in his character are what make this more palatable as a, like, career criminal film? me. So I appreciated that, at least. I don't, like, I didn't fall head over heels in love with it or anything like that, but it's a good movie, I think. It's a good movie. I mean, it's a good movie. Outside of, like, you know, hip-hop culture, the movie is kind of gone and, like, not talked about

at all. Yes. Yes. Yeah. And it was a better movie than I think, you know, it's kind of non-existence, even when you're talking about, like, Brian De Palma. Right. Well, and we'll get into it, we'll get into it when we talk about why it didn't, you know, succeed with Oscar. But, like, for a movie that's 81% Rotten Tomatoes, and, like, the farther you go back with Rotten Tomatoes, the less reliable that number gets because they're really not pulling everything. Yeah, when you read, like, the history of this, it seems like it was more of a critical disappointment. And it's like, it could be the type of movie that, like, sure, it gets an 80%. A begrudging thumbs up. Right.

Right. Right. Right, right, right. Well, and a lot of the stuff was, it's Pacino and De Palma doing the mobster thing again after Scarface. A lot of people were like, Pacino, who by the way is playing a Puerto Rican character in this film, which we'll definitely get into, um, thought that his accent would veer into Frank Slade from send of a woman every once in a while. I didn't quite hear that. I think at some point, it's just you're hearing Al Pacino. And Al Pacino sounds like Al Pacino and whatever. Um, but there was a lot of, uh, Looking back at the reaction of it, it did feel like it was a lot of nitpicking, except for Kaye de Cinema, who put it as their, like, number one of the decade of the 90s, of the whole 90s. It was like this, wasn't it tied with like Bridges of Madison County and some third movie? Yes, and goodbye, South goodbye. Yes, yes, exactly. And it's funny because you look back and like in the year 93 when Carlito's Way made their top 10 for that year,

also that er no wait sorry no no no it's when you look at their pulling it up now their best of the decade year obviously their best of the decade list obviously came out in 1999 so they also did a best of 1999 list and clint eastwood space cowboys also made that list so it's just like all right we like we get it you really they do love Clint and i'm pretty sure they also love de palma is part of it yeah yeah yeah we love the cayet they um they uh they're a bunch of freaks the head of Carlito's Way in the 93 list they have a Clairetony film so I

have to endorse it. Let's actually do the 60 second plot description before we get too far into this because we got a lot to discuss I feel like I think more than maybe I initially thought when I watched the movie because it's like I watched the movie and it's like I don't have a

ton to say necessarily about the movie itself but like I really do think all four of those principal actors are really interesting career point, so I definitely want to get into that. But, yeah, definitely. We're going to be talking about Carlito's Way, the 1993 film Carlito's Way, directed by Brian De Palma.

This is their second Brian De Palma film after the disastrous Bonfire of the Vanities, which was two films before this for me, or for De Palma. Written by David Kep, who we should talk about him a little bit, because he's an interesting sort of script guy in Hollywood history, based on the novels by Edwin Torres. starring Al Pacino as the titular Carlito, Sean Penn, Penelope, Ann Miller, Luis Guzman is in this movie, John Leguizamo, James Rebhorn. This is a scent of a woman reunion with Pacino and James Rebhorn. Vigo Mortensen shows up as a snitch for one scene, which I knew it was coming because I had looked at the cast list for this movie before I watched. And even still, I was just like, it's Vigo.

Oh boy, when you say we won't have too much to talk about the movie, we're going to need to spend a whole like 15 minutes on Vigo Morton soon. That's a weird scene. That's a scene. We'll definitely get into it. Yeah, we'll talk about the people saying what they said about Al Pacino in this movie. Yes. This premiered November 12th, 1993, part of a big.

year, actually, for Universal pictures, which we will also get into. There was a lot going on at Universal in 93, especially in the last quarter of 93. But before we get into all that, Chris, why don't you roll up your sleeves there and give us a 60-second plot description if you are ready? I think I'm ready. All right. And begin. Okay, Carlito Brigante is released from prison on a technicality, even though he was sentenced to 30 years. He wants to turn his back on crime, but the second he's out, he joins his cousin on a big drug sale. And it immediately results in a shootout, leaving everyone there dead except Carlito, who runs away with like $30,000. He invested in a nightclub immediately. And soon his addict lawyer, Dave Kleinfeld, starts some shit with Benny Blanco. He's a crime boss in New York as well.

30-6. He really wants to get in with Carlito. And that's the whole thing. Carlyto is also reuniting with his old girlfriend Gail, who was a Broadway ballerina, but now she's a stripper, and they have sex to, you are so beautiful. Kleinfeld hopes to, like, rope Carlito into a prison break and only results in Kleinfeld killing the guy, and then Clydefeld is almost killed for it, but then he tries to frame Carlito with the feds, but then eventually he gets killed in the hospital, and Carlito and Carlito and Gayle try to go on the run, but Benny Blanco kills Carlito, and Gayle escapes to an island. And that is time. I don't think that it should be legal. I don't think it should be morally acceptable to have You Are So Beautiful set to a love scene in a movie that is not The Little Rascals.

A bold statement by Chris Fyle, but he's standing by it, and I appreciate that. Yeah, this movie runs the gamut with this movie runs the gamut with the needle drops, because you have that. The needle drops in this movie are psychotic. There is a full, incredibly tense scene at a nightclub that is happening while LaBelle's Lady Marmalade plays in the background, like, in full. Like, you get the entire full Lady Marmalade, and all I could pay attention to was that. And I was obviously, like, delighted and enthralled by that.

Yeah, it was, it was a good, it was a good moment. good disco tracks but really out of place also the disco that carlito invests in in this movie looks like it should be a diner not a disco yes well and it's like this movie is supposed to be taking place contemporaneously right like this is this is 90s new york city 90s nightclub culture no 70s i believe oh is it okay um well then forget it then um It's just a, you know, a scene can only be so intense when Casey and the Sunshine spans. That's the way I like it plays. Also, something, yes, I'm looking at the soundtrack listing right now. We got that's the way I like it. We also have shake, shake, shake, shake your booty, which, uh, great. Always down to listen to that song, very weirdly placed in this movie.

Yes. Um, obviously, uh, rock the boat. There's disco inferno. There's a lot of, like, as I said, Lady Marmalade. You are so beautiful as performed by Joe Cocker, the requisite Oia Comova, Santana needle drop, which we got. Yeah, there's a lot. There's a lot of, I bet you this sold a soundtrack. I bet it moved, you know, a few units as a soundtrack.

Except the audience for this soundtrack would be very different than the audience for Carlito's Way. Yes, yes, absolutely. So this is, I think, the top. sort of the top line attraction for this is it's Pacino and De Palma together again for the first time since Scarface.

Now let me look up and see how many times they worked together. But I think that is true. And certainly in the crime boss milieu for the first time since Scarface, which was not an Oscar film, was not

probably was not a particularly critically adored film, I imagine. No, it got worse reviews than this movie did. I mean, it could have been in the... I'm pretty sure that that movie was released around Christmas time, and it was a Globe nominee for multiple globes.

But it was a Razzie nominee as well. Yeah, so it's like it's the type of thing that once people saw it, it was immediately out of the conversation. Yeah. But obviously Scarface has its own reputation, too. And that almost makes me feel like Scarface is just like totally eclipsing Carlito's way in terms of like legacy is

concerned and that like we still talk about Scarface and we don't talk about Carlito's way. Right. Carlito's way. You could promote a movie on it at the time, but if it's not as loved and it's not as revered at the time, it's not going to last, you know, it's not like De Niro's every single movie he does with Scorsese is included in canon. Right. Except for the Good Shepherd.

No, wait, that was De Niro's movie. That was Deneiro's movie. Which I guess proves the point, right? But, yeah, Carlito's Way is probably meant to kind of advance that narrative, advance the Pacino-de-Palman narrative, and it doesn't. You're right, it can't escape the velocity of Scarface. It's sort of like, remember when Pacino De Niro did that other movie, after Heat? What was that called?

Righteous Kill? Right. Where it's just like, why am I watching something called righteous kill when like we have heat? Like we don't need. We don't need this. Well, I mean, Carlito's Way and Scarface are also incredibly different movies too. Like we talked about this in our recent Live by Night episode because that movie was trying to like chase the traditional like old school 30s, 40s and 50s gangster style movies and it didn't do it well. Carlito's way. I think does that and does it well. Whereas, like, Scarface, even though it's based on a movie from that era, is really, like, excessive, it's excessive in the violence, the drugs, uh, it's basically like

heterosexual camp. Right. It is, it's like this huge movie. And I think Carlito's way is way more understated and nuance, even though it's a De Palma movie. Yeah. I definitely think this is the most chill de Palma movie.

Oh, it's an incredibly chill movie. And especially for, the subject matter, then it could have, you know, written itself a check to, you know, be incredibly unchill. Obviously, Scarface is an incredibly not chill movie. And Carlito's way makes a conscious choice to go the other way. It's interesting, though, you look at the disaster that was, the Bonfair of the Vanities, and, like, really truly got raked across the coals in so many ways. And it's not like I would expect De Palma as a personality to be the kind of person who retreats

into old safety nets but it's interesting that his two movies after Bonfire of the Vanities he does Raising Kane, the John Lithgow plays identical twins. That movie's fucking wild. You can see how that is a post Bonfire of the vanities like please

let me do anything else type of movie. Well and it's also like let me maybe go back to the dress to kill body double kind of era of my stuff. Deeply strange movie. And then Carlito's Way feels like, okay, well, now I'm going to do, I'm going to re-team with Pacino, fall back into my like Scarface, or even like Scarface, which was not

a critical, critically beloved, but it was a popular hit. And then The Untouchables, which was another sort of movie about organized crime. And that was, that did really well, wins the Oscar, obviously, for Sean Conner. and so it's like his two movies after the Bonfire of the Vanities feel like a little bit of a reset for De Palma. And then the rest of his 90s into the 2000s are back to him trying a bunch of different stuff, where it's like it's Mission Impossible, snake eyes, which is a deeply bizarre movie, just a really deeply... I really want to watch Snake Eyes after this. The plot of it's pretty typical, right, where it's like Nicholas Cage is at a boxing fight and somebody gets assassinated.

And he's got to, like, piece together what happened. But, like, the way it is filmed is incredibly distinct and strange, and it's cage. So he's, like, doing his Nicholas Cage thing. He makes missions... There's like an opening long take that's wild, right? Is it the opening of the movie? Yes, it is. Yes.

Because it's, like, because, right, you have to, like, check in at everybody, all the characters and what they're doing during this boxing fight when something happens so that you can then go back into it after the fact and see what's... really going on, right? But there's, yes, there's this big long tracking shot at the beginning of that. He makes Mission to Mars, which is sort of his sci-fi movie, that gets pretty much ignored at the time. Destroyed critically, I thought, too. Yes. Makes Femfital in 2002, which not a lot of people saw, but I feel like the people who did were like, don't sleep on this movie. This is actually really interesting. It was Rebecca Romaine,

before she was really an actress. She was basically just sort of like a model at this point. Yeah, she'd maybe done the first X-Men at that point. Right, but the first X-Men, she really, like, Mystique doesn't really speak very much. She has, like, one line, and then she, like, beats up Bruce Davison with her feet or something like that. Just like, so I think at that point, people were, like, skeptical. Keeps him up with her feet?

Do you mean that she kicks him? No. She, like, slaps him around with her feet. Like, it's not, like, just kicking. It's just like, I think that's in that one. It might be an X2, but I'm pretty sure it's that one. No, it's well beyond kicking. We've talked about the Black Dahlia before, which is his next movie after that, which is for a...

We can't do it because it's nominated for cinematography or art direction? If not both. Hold on a second. No, just nominated for just the one. I think Vilma Sigmund shot that. It is. It is the Vilmo Sigmund, the cinematography nomination. You're right about that. Just that one nomination.

Based on the James Elroyd novel, sort of a post-L.A. Confidential, but make it weird in a De Palma way, which, like, that tracks. Redacted was another movie that felt like, sort of like Femphital, where it's just like, well, nobody saw this, but I know, I definitely remember people, like, making a case for Redacted. Did it win something at, like, Venice? Very possible, hold, please. I feel like it won a festival prize. It was all, I mean, also on Cayed de Cinema's top ten that year. Yes, it won the Silver Lion best director at Venice that year for Diploma. Yeah, so there we go.

And what's his most recent? His most recent is a VOD movie. Oh, and he also, oh, wait, that's not that, that's a Domino, but not the Tony Scott Domino. Oh, but he did. Yeah, that's the VOD movie. Passion, though. We're skipping Passion. Rachel McAdams and Numi Rapass in Passion.

which was part of the... Passion is so much fun. It is not good. It is truly camp. Part of the lesbian suspense camp trilogy that it's this and Chloe and adore, right? Where it's...

Yes. Yeah, anyway. Yeah, passion's weird. Yeah, so De Palma, I always feel a certain type of way when discussing him, because I've not seen all of his older stuff, so I don't really have a whole lot of, like,

territory to stand on to make any, like, big claims about Brian De Palma. But, like, this definitely feels like an attempt to get back on solid ground. And probably should have done better than it did. Yeah, I think it's a good movie. I like it. This is maybe the one De Palma that I have seen where I am not at any point, like, wow, I hate this. Right, right.

Because, like, that's the thing with De Palma. Like, his style is so gauche and, like, goes into some offensive territory in some of his movies, like, Trust to Kill. Yeah. But, like, it's, you can kind of feel your brain expanding while you watch some of his movies, even when you're, like, you're engrossed in it, but you can also be like, yeah, I'm maybe not having a good time still. And I never really felt that during this. This definitely felt like his safest movie, but there's still, like, the De Palmaisms, it's still shot like a Brian De Palma movie. There's, like, those split diopeter shots throughout the movie for, like, not a huge purpose, but it looks cool. Yes.

Definitely my first Brian DePaul in a movie that I ever saw was probably Mission Impossible, followed by Carrie at some point. But then, like, after those ones, I saw Snake Eyes. And so that was one where I watched it, and I'm just like, I don't, the language of this film is confusing to me, so I think it is not good. And I think I sort of, like, stood by that for a while. And then I watched it again on TV semi-recently. And it's just like, it's not that this is a bad movie. It's definitely an interesting movie.

I don't know if it's, like, if it capitalizes on everything it's trying to do, but, like, it's not boring. And it's like, I remember what it was doing for a reason. Like, I remember the sort of the bullshit that it gets up to in a way that, like, oh, it's better than nothing. I'm sure there were a lot more forgettable thrillers in the late 90s than Snake Eyes. So, you should watch it. And I guess for me, for De Palma, the, like, definitive one, though it's, like, Carrie's amazing. The first Mission Impossible is way more interesting than we maybe talk about. Yeah.

because we're so distracted with Tom Cruise's unceasing death wish. Whereas, like, the death wish stunt in that movie is he, like, jumps in front of a cascading wall of water. Like, that was the big stunt that could have killed him. And it's like, okay. Right. Call me when you're in space. But the one that got, like, showed up best on film and, like, was in every trailer and whatever was the one where he drops from the ceiling. and, like, stops, like...

To the floor. A millimeter before the floor. And, like, that's, like, that's the coolest shot of that movie. Um... Um, but, like, the definitive De Palma movie for me is probably dressed to kill, where I'm like, there is absolute, like, storytelling, uh, filmmaking genius in that movie, but it's all in service of something that's deeply offensive.

Despicable, right. In multiple ways. I had the same problem with it. I saw it for the first time, only a few years. years ago. And I'm watching it, and I know that, like, there's some bullshit afoot. So, like, I definitely, like, sort of guessed what was going to end up happening because I knew that this was somewhat of a notorious movie. But, like, all the Nancy Allen stuff in that film is really great and, uh, and really suspenseful. And, um, obviously, like, the murder of the

Angie Dickinson who gets killed in that movie, right? Uh-huh. That stuff is incredibly like memorably filmed and like the the whatever camera placement and the colors of it and the terror of it it's all amazing but yeah in service of a plot twist that is truly

deeply despicable and I never I couldn't yes but even before the plot twist there's some shit in it that I find rather sex negative well of course yes but in a way but like

anti-woman Yes, in a way that all feels like of a piece with 1970s cinema, but still, yeah. Right. Yeah. So let's talk about post-Oskar Pacino for a second, because I think that's the big sort of, besides the Golden Globe nominations for Penn and Penelope and Miller, which we'll get into, obviously. The award story of this is, I do wonder if Pacino started, like, signed on. to this movie before he was an Oscar winner. And there was a sense of, I bet you there was a sense of, well, if Pacino doesn't win for

scent of a woman, or Glenn Gary, Glenn Ross, because he was nominated for both in 92, he's got Carlito's way next year. You know what I mean? It's just like, it's still good, it's still good. But then we see this a lot of times, with the one exception being Merrill Streep, actually, where an actor or actress is like their storyline becomes why haven't they won an Oscar

and then it happens it finally happens Pacino finally wins Susan Sarandon finally wins for Deadman Walking Kate Winslet finally wins for the reader and then Julianne Moore finally wins for Still Alice Right and then after that

the awards voting community and sort of the industry seemingly is just like well, we got that taken care of and we don't need to. Susan Sarandon hasn't been nominated since she won her Oscar. Pachino didn't get nominated again after Sen of a Woman.

It wasn't until the Irishman, right? Almost 30 years between those nominations. Right. Winslet doesn't get nominated after the reader for another seven years until Steve Jobs. Julianne hasn't gotten

her follow-up nomination after still Alice, even though she deserved in Gloria Bell, and I will keep saying that. She deserved for Maggie's plan. Just that accent alone is comedy gold. She's so good in that. Everybody assumed that that was going to happen with Merrill after her third, right? She wins for the Iron Lady, and everybody's just like, we didn't like the Iron Lady. Nobody liked the Iron Lady. Obviously, Merrill, as a actress, deserves to have three Oscars, regardless of context. But the silver lining around her winning for the Iron Lady is, at least we won't. have to nominate Merrill for everything now.

And, like, that held for a whole one year. Like, 2012 happens, and it was no Merrill. And then literally, the next time she came around with something in a movie that people mostly didn't like, even though I think it's a good performance, August Ossage County comes along, and it's just like, Merrill, we can't deny you. Get over here. And then it's like, it's her post Iron Lady Oscar story has been as robust as any period in her career ever. She's gotten nominated for almost everything she's done. It's really been,

she defies all, uh, all narratives. It's crazy. But so here was Pacino, right after sent a woman. But it's not like Pacino couldn't have gotten nominated for some of these things. Totally. Totally. Not like he couldn't have gotten nominated. I mean, 1993 best actor is pretty competitive. I should say that. Um, to the point where like Daniel de Lewis is giving two great performances and two very Oscar movies in the name of the father. the age of innocence. It can only get nominated for one, obviously. But like, Hanks, Philadelphia, like, obviously, that's the winner that year. That is huge. Hopkins in Remains of the Day. Hopkins is as, you know, hot as any actor at that point. Like, he's on a real career streak.

Liam Neeson for Schindler's list, a no-brainer, the big Steven Spielberg, Oscar Behemoth, and he's the title character, and he's great. Like, he's definitely in. And he hasn't been nominated since. It's kind of a bummer, but then again, he's probably not going to get another nomination until he stops making movies that are all indistinguishable, and just him shooting people. Listen, I loved that movie where he was on the airplane, and I still kind of liked that movie where he was on the train. And if he makes a movie where he's on a bus, I will probably compare it negatively to speed, but I will still watch it. So that is what I will say to that. What the people want is high-speed rail.

They want high-speed rail for convenience, for, you know, global consciousness concerns, our footprint. But we also want high-speed rail so that Liam Neeson can make a movie where he is killing people on it. Oh, yeah. And maybe that, maybe if Liam Neeson makes a high-speed rail thriller, that will be what's necessary to put. high-speed rail to the forefront of our infrastructure plans in the country. That is my, that is my plan. Unfortunately, we will probably be getting Liam Neeson goes to space and shoots people movies before we get Liam Neeson high-speed rail. Because what everybody wants is to go to space. Somehow. For some reason. Couldn't be me. So Lawrence Fishmerin gets that fifth nomination at the

Oscars. He wasn't nominated at all at the Golden Globes. But like, that's a a rad nomination. Obviously he deserved. Everybody sort of in the also-rans that year were all pretty, I would say pretty good contenders. Obviously, the fugitive isn't like an actor's bonanza, but Tommy Lee Jones is the winner for supporting actors, so like clearly Harrison Ford was in contention for the fugitive. Ditto Clint Eastwood in the line of fire. Somebody who Oscar super loves, and they loved the movie enough to nominate

Malcovich. Donald Sutherland, it's still really surprising to me that Stocker Channing was able to get awards traction for six degrees of separation, which she deserves. She's the best. She fucking rules in that movie. Okay, I just watched that movie for the first time yesterday, and Donald Sutherland is

hilarious. He's hilarious in that movie. He's so funny. Every time he says we could have been killed, it's so funny to me. The two of them are great together. It's very strange to me that that wasn't a his and hers Oscar nomination, especially because

he had never been not like maybe Donald Sutherland truly has kicked the shins of every third Oscar voter and he'll never get nominated because of it like who's to say but like it's wild to me that he's never been nominated for an Oscar considering all of the times he could have been in movies that like ordinary

people, six years separation, mash like nothing it's yeah I mean he's truly worked with everybody too you would think yeah there would be an element of that that it's like you know the way you see like a grounds well, for someone like Octavia Spencer, where it's like, of course they're going to win. They've worked with everybody and everybody loves them.

Exactly, exactly. Maybe they don't all love Donald's other one. It's very possible. I mean, as prolific as he is, you would think. That's been, that was the line on Gary Oldman forever, was why hasn't Gary Oldman been nominated for an Oscar? And the answer was usually like, I don't think anybody likes him who worked with him. And it's like, okay.

And that's also what I've heard, God, whatever, this is baseless rumors and whatever. QSack, I was just about to say. That's what I heard about QSAC, too. Yeah. But so this is a very competitive best actor year. So, like, I think the fact that awards voters could be like, we did just give it to Pacino last year after giving him, like, a bunch of nominations in the early 90s to, like, see what, you know, what stuck when we threw it at the wall, which is why it's always surprising to me that he didn't get nominated for Frankie and Johnny, because I thought he and Fyfer were both good in that movie. Anyway, we've done that movie. We've talked about that.

But the stretch between Oscar nominations, like, there is a lot of garbage in there for Pacino. But there's also things like The Insider, which, of course, Russell Crow is the story of. I think Pacino's even better in that movie. He's great. He's great in that movie. I mean, Heat doesn't have a single nomination. And it's like, we could do that. But, like, what are we going to add to this discussion on Heat?

Right. Yeah. The only real awards blip for Al Pacino is Angels in America. Right. Which is, I think because it was television, it was like, we've got Al Pacino on television. Like, I think there was a sense of that, too, where it's just like, Pacino and Streep, like, throw all the awards at them. Which is why I'm always very grateful that Jeffrey Wright and Mary Louise Parker were also able to sweep the TV awards because they weren't the big movie. stars in that miniseries, and yet they were still, like, giving, you know, phenomenal performances. If I were

choosing, you know, if the Emmys were just voted on by me that year, I probably would have put Justin Kirk in lead and given him the awards that Pacino was getting, even though I do really like Pacino. People talk about him being really big and really, like, grandiose and loud in that role as Roy Cohn, but, like, that's what's called for, for one thing. Yeah, that's the point. And he's so memorable. Like that scene with him and Patrick Wilson, the do you want to be nice or do you want to be effective scene? Was it legal?

Fuck legal. Am I a nice man? Fuck nice. They say terrible things about me in the nation. Fuck the nation. You want to be nice or you want to be effective? You want to make the law or subject to it. Choose.

Your wife chose. It's so, like I watch it all the time. It's amazing. And he's, like, he's literally just, like, slobbering on the ground. He's that big. He plays it that big. But, like, it works. Like, it's, that's what you want out of that scene.

It's so good. And the funny thing about Pacino is, now he is kind of the TV movie guy, right? He's Jack Kovorkian in the HBO movie. He's Phil Spector. He's Joe Paterno in the HBO movie. Like, that's sort of his, those are the successes of his career now up until the Irishman. that Amazon show that I will Never watch.

Which he got a Emmy nomination for? Definitely a Golden Globe nomination. I think a Globe nomination for that. I think that's right. And I think the Irishman once upon in time he's not in Once Upon a Time in Hollywood much,

but everybody loved his scene in that movie. So like that was great. And I think between that and the Irishman coming in the same year, it feels like we're emerging from this like Pacino wilderness too, where the,

the manglehorns and Danny Collins's and you know these sort of like small artie movies that nobody saw that also weren't that good juxtaposed with the HBO TV movies juxtaposed with like Jack and Jill and that kind of stuff it's just like no okay well now maybe he's in House of Gucci the I don't even know how to describe what are we what are we gonna get in my making my fingers are all together in the pointed thing and I'm waving my hands at this you are aOC you are You are an AOC meme at this point, yes, for House of Goosey. This movie is for the Germanatas.

And yet, it is a Ridley Scott movie. So, like, I am trying to temper my expectations. But he's part of that incredibly... Like, this cast astounds me. Lady Gaga, Adam Driver, Al Pacino, Salma Hayek, Jeremy Irons, Jared Lett O'Fine, Jack Houston, baby boy Reeve Carney, who is incredibly attractive, is what I say um he's also in tom ford no less yeah uh he's also supposed to be in a film adaptation of king lear that i think is just it's pre-production or maybe even like just been announced so like

grain assault with that that is going to happen but i don't know i feel like we're in a period we're in a positive career arc for Pacino at this point, which is good. Yes, I agree. So we talked a little bit about Sean Penn's career arc. What are your thoughts on the performance itself in this movie? I mean, I don't, I didn't, when he showed up in that full-bodied hair experience, I was bracing for it to be really bad, and it's not. I think he's fine.

I wouldn't, like, nominate him for supporting actor, but, like, I was expecting embarrassing, and I did not think it was embarrassing. He did get the Golden Globe nomination for a supporting actor, the nomination that ultimately went to Pete Possilthwaite at the Oscars for, in the name of the father. And also nominated at the Golden Globes that year was Penelope Ann Miller for supporting actress getting the slot that would go to Holly Hunter in the firm at the Oscars that

year. So, and I want to talk about both of those supporting categories at the Oscars in a second. But Penelopeon Miller's career is really interesting, because she really is one of those actresses who has, like, she'll still pop up in things every once in a while. But like, I remember she was in the birth of a nation, the, uh, um, the Nate Parker, the birth of a nation. And I was like, of all things to like, emerge. in. She's in the artist, so, like, she was in a best picture winner, and, like, good for her.

But, like, it really does, even whenever you see her, it's just like, oh, Penelope and Miller from the 1990s is in a movie. And first thing I ever saw her in, and maybe this is true for you as well, but our age difference may come into play here. She's, her second movie ever is Adventures in Babysitting, where she plays Elizabeth Chew's friend who gets stranded at the bus station. Is that Chicago? Is that one of those movies that takes place in Chicago? Pretty sure that's Chicago. Yes, it is.

And so she's stranded at the bus station. She's, is she in peril? She ends up, her glasses get broken. She's aggressed by a rat. It's a whole, there's a whole lot of stuff happening in adventures and babysitting. I adore that movie. That was one of my, like, childhood staples. I watch that all the time.

It's so good. I watched the opening scene over and over. It's one of the best opening scenes. It's one of the best opening scenes in movies. There is a homophobic joke about Thor, the superhero of Thor, that I do not stand by at this point. Said by, I'm pretty sure, Anthony Rapp, which is curious or curious. But like... Okay, I have two formative Penelope and Miller movies.

Obviously, kindergarten cop, unfortunately. Right. She's the love interest. Secondly, I don't think we've ever had this conversation, but I was... I was obsessed with The Shadow We have not had this conversation. We have not had this conversation. Tell me about it. Tell me about this. I've never seen that movie.

Okay, I went as the Shadow for Halloween. I had the Shadow board game. Oh my God. Like, I loved that movie as a kid. Probably couldn't tell you anything about it now. Alec Baldwin. Penelope and Miller. Who else is in that film? Let's see. John Lone is in that movie.

He had McKellen. Is in that film? Yeah. Playing, I want to say, Penelope and Miller's father maybe, because they have the same money. Okay, so here's the thing about the shadow. And, like, the shadow is definitely, like, a weird version of this, right? But, like, in the early 90s, we didn't have superhero movies, really? We did not.

Obviously, the Batman movies were a big deal, and I was obsessed with the Batman movies. Yeah. And, like, I remember my dad taking me to see it because it's like, oh, you like Batman, you're going to like this. Right. And there was, like, no other movies like that. And I'm probably one of five people who have seen The Shadow. I should try to watch that again. I know it's streaming somewhere.

It probably will disappoint me for how much I know I liked it as a kid, but remember nothing at this point. The Shadow, curiously, the screenplay for that film was also David Kep, which is really interesting. That tracks. Very much tracks. Let's, all right, put a pin in David Kep, because I do want to go back. to him for a second. So Penelope Ann Miller in that film is also, she's the love interest. Because, like, that was sort of her thing. Like, in all of her big movies, as she goes, she's love interest in Biloxi Blues. I imagine she's the love interest in Big Top Pewee. She's

the love interest for Matthew Broderick and the freshman, that film where Marlon Brando essentially plays a parody of his godfather character. Yeah. And it's like Alligators or something? She's a commoto dragon. Comono dragons. There's a Comono. Moto Dragon. She's very possibly a love interest in Awakenings, the Penny Marshall film, Awakenings. Definitely the love interest in kindergarten cop. She's the love interest to Danny DeVito in a film called Other People's Money, that I remember. I remember. I remember commercials for, but I never saw. She is the titular Betty Lou in the gun in Betty Lou's handbag. she's in Chaplin, the Robert Downey Jr. Chaplin movie. She's right here, she's the love interest in Carlito's Way, and then she's the love

interest in the shadow. And so the shadow is 1994, the year after Carlito's Way. She doesn't appear in another movie until 1997. She's in something called The Relic that I remember being a horror movie. Terrifying The Relic. She's in a movie called Little City with Josh Charles, John Bon Jovi, and Annabella Shiora, so there is that. But then, like... Dream Blunt Rotation.

And then, like, she's in, like, a few other movies in the late 90s and early 2000s. The only one that I can think, like, that I recognize as the title is a long came a spider in 2001. And then she's just, like, just in fewer and fewer movies. And I don't even remember her being, like, in, like, a regular on a major television show at that time. So she just kind of stops appearing in things, which is too bad. She was never, like, my favorite actress or anything like that. But, like, it was, it's interesting that she gets the Golden Globe nomination for Carlito's Way. There must have been a sense of just, like, after her appearing in all of these movies as the love interest or whatever,

now she's the love interest to Al Pacino in a big, you know, mobster movie that has Oscar potential. and the Oscar nomination doesn't materialize for her and then it really feels like Hollywood was like, well, we tried. You know what I mean? Like, well, we made, you know, it's good of an effort. And I mean, who knows what the real story is? And obviously any story with an actress who's in a bunch of things and then stops being in things, I always, you know,

now we have to, you know, wonder what the sexist slash predatory implications of things like that were after hearing stories about. Well, there's also like the other, like, sexist. angle of like we just mentioned she plays basically the love interest in a bunch of movies. Did she age out of that demographic? I've never seen her give a performance that I think is bad, but she also is not really given the opportunity to show much versatility. So like I think eventually that does screw performers over, right? Yeah. Yes, I think that's true. So, yeah, um, she's in, like I said, she's left out of that Oscar lineup. That's a really

interesting Oscar narrative, that supporting actress in 1993, because Winona wins the Golden Globe. This is the year before the SAG Awards become a thing, so there is no thing. But I remember there being compelling narratives for, obviously, Winona Ryder, because, you know, this was her big breakthrough into Oscar movies after being, like, the universal teen girl of the last like five to ten years right and mostly last five years um rosy prez in fearless who again a breakthrough performance from somebody who had been in white men can't jump and do the right thing and so she had like been her star had been rising and she's in this peter weir film called fearless she plays a survivor of a plane crash who i believe in the plane crash lost her child and so

she's like going through a huge amount of grief and she's sort of the main counterpart to Jeff Bridges in that movie. It's a very good movie. It's a great performance. So I think people thought Rosie was a contender. And then Holly Hunter is nominated for the firm, but is also nominated in lead for the piano and Emma Thompson, who had just won best actress the year before for Howard's End, is nominated supporting for in the name of the father, for the lawyer, whatever the barrister, whatever we call him. over there. And then in lead for maybe her best performance in the remains of the day from that era of Emma Thompson. I think she's so incredibly good in that movie. And the narrative at that time,

even though Sigourney Weaver had already disproved it in 1988, was if you're nominated in both lead and supporting in a given year, you'll probably win supporting. So there were like, plus plausible winner narratives for everybody in that category except for Anna Pac-win, who ends up winning for the piano. It's really strange. But I love, like, we're talking about this year, about how this year's supporting actress and lead actress categories are both incredibly unpredictable. And, like, 93-supporting actress felt like that's, that was one of those years. Definitely. I mean, I would definitely see more of a narrative for Anna Pac-Wen in regards to, like,

it's a certain type of child performance there's a certain precociousness that like we're maybe less prone to it now like Abigail Breslin might have been the final nail in the coffin for it but there's that Tatum O'Neill narrative you're not wrong yeah

and like the piano the thing about the piano is like that was an incredibly beloved movie premiered at Cann and like had a whole like almost years worth of build up for people to gain affection for that movie yeah but like

Oscar was never going to give it best picture and best director because of all of the host of reasons that, like, suck and whatever. And it's also up against Schindler's Lists. I was going to say, nobody was beating Schindler's List that year. Like, that's the other thing. Exactly. But like, because the movie is so beloved, they gave it trophies where they could. Right. Actress and screenplay.

The other thing is the nature of Holly Hunter's role, because she is mute in that film, And she tries to communicate as much as she can with, like, sign language and gestures and whatnot. But, like, Anna Pacquin, who plays her daughter in the movie, essentially functions as her voice in the movie, right? Where she's the one who says things to other characters on behalf of her mother. And so if you are as enraptured with that Holly Hunter performance, as floaters were at the time, then you could easily see why that would spill over also into Anna Pac-Wen. because she almost feels like an extension of the mother character. So, yeah, that makes sense to me. That makes sense.

The interesting thing is over in supporting actor that year, it wasn't a contest. Like, Tommy Lee Jones was winning that. Like, that didn't seem like there was much of, even though I think Ray Fines is phenomenal in Schindler's List and, like, terrifying, and probably would have gotten my vote. But, like, Tommy Lee Jones, that's a real showboaty. performance in the fugitive in a way that really works and the fugitive is a sneaky perfect movie actually and like super rewatchable like go and like find that on a Saturday afternoon and just like watch it and enjoy yourself it should rewatch that movie oh it's super good um I think those are your two top contenders that year what did you where where do you come down on the different

performances in supporting actor that year I mean I still haven't seen in the a fire in the name of the father, but like, I still, like, I understand why Tommy Lee Jones won, and I think especially in supporting actor, that kind of performance is always going to have an edge to win. Especially, and it's like, it's a broad movie that, like, they

might look askance at giving it something like a bigger prize, like Best Picture. Right. But, like, yeah, my vote would be Ray Fines. Yeah, fines is fantastic. Leonardo DiCaprio gets his first ever Oscar nomination that year for What's Eating Gilbert Grape. But yeah, Tommy Lee Jones was winning that thing the whole time. It's interesting.

I am still kind of surprised that Sean Penn didn't get the nomination that year, even more so than Penelope and Miller. It feels like so much of the narrative around Carlito's way, even if you didn't like it, Penn was getting raves sort of, you know, everywhere. And probably went a lot, a long way towards him getting nominated two years later for Deadman Walking. Oh, definitely. That feels like, you know, just the stepping stone to the first Oscar nomination type of performance where it's like you're just in the right movie with the right people. I want to hop over to David Kep for a second, though, because I keep threatening to do so. He's one of those actors who, if you have a big budget film by a major director,

you may end up... Especially a genre director. Right. He's been... And I, it feels like he's maybe the guy you bring in to take a second pass at a screenplay or there's a lot of like co-writing credits on these kind of things. He's a co-writer on Jurassic Park, which is the same year as Carlito's way. Death becomes her, your beloved The Shadow, as I mentioned. The paper, the Ron Howard movie The Paper.

He co-wrote along with Robert Town and Stephen Zalian, again, feels like there were multiple versions of the scripts and like that's the credit that shook out this is on a mission impossible um snake eyes he co-wrote with de palma so he works with de palma a lot he ends up working with spielberg a bunch on war of the worlds on indiana jones and the kingdom of the crystal skull works with ron howard a good bit on um angels and Demons and Inferno, that kind of thing. There was one other thing. Oh, yes. Well, he directs Mordecai.

So there's that. He directs also Premium Rush, which I remember people liked. And Ghost Town. I like Ghost Town. And Ghost Town. And Stereveco. So, yeah, so he's got some interesting director credits as well. He's, uh, there's a lot, uh, there's a lot.

on his resume, let's say, which is you never really hear him talked about as like an auteur's writer, do you know what I mean? Where he's, you're never really going to be like, you know, do the Charlie Kaufman thing with David Kemp. Well, he's also like one of those major studio screenwriters that it's like, people have definitely heard his name

from various, like, massive movies. But like, you're like, that's funny that he doesn't have an Oscar nomination until you actually look at the screen credits and it's like, oh, no, it makes sense. Right, exactly. Exactly. And he's adapting from a series of novels

to particular novels by, as we said, Edwin Torres for this. And parts of Carlito's way definitely feel like, oh, I can see where this is sort of coming from a book. Obviously, the voiceover narration is a big one. But

it's such a mood movie and it's such a again so focused on the Pacino performance that I don't really think of the screenplay a lot of the times unless I may be thinking about some of the weaknesses of it like the fact that Penelope Ann Miller's character really exists to tell Carlito things about himself that the screenplay would like you to know or like to underline for you

I think a lot of the big things about the movie that I really like that are Pacino are De Palma stuff that scene, the shootout scene in Grand Central is really well done and some really memorable the image of Pacino going on his back down the escalator to avoid getting seen

by the mobsters who are pursuing him is really, really cool stuff and like incredibly memorable. A better staircase scene than DePaul's did with The Untouchables, which is... At a different train station, right? I'm sure there are people that would jump down my throat for saying this, but that scene in the Intouchables is laughable.

It is. Well, and that was supposedly... It's ridiculous. That was an intentional riff on the Battleship Potemkin scene, right? Sort of. Right. But like, but sort of groaningly so. Like you, it felt...

It's half the runtime of the... movie. Yes, it really is. That goddamn baby. Mm-hmm. In a pram. In a pram. Yes. Yeah. But yeah, love the Grand Central scene in Carlito's way. I think it's incredibly exciting. And yeah, what else do we want to talk about? What else do you want to talk about, Chris? Uh, I definitely, okay, so we talked about the second worst thing about the movie, which is the needle drops. Yes. We definitely have to give some time to what I think is the worst thing about the movie, and that is Vigo Mortensen.

Oh, go off. Okay, so Pacino gets, like, bad reviews for his Puerto Rican dialect when he is very not Puerto Rican in this movie, but, like, did they not, did they go to the bathroom in the, in Vigo Mortensen scene, which is like, I don't know how he had a career after that. It is, like, the grossest characterization of a Puerto Rican person, and it

is shocking. I think there's so much going on with that character, though, at once, whereas there is that. It's the, you know, the fact that he's trying to play a Puerto Rican, which is insane. But, like, he's such an obviously, like, squirrely

snitch of a character, so, like, that's also... And he's... He was, like, in prison, and he got really roughed up in prison and he talks about how he like shits in a diaper now and he's in a wheelchair there's just a lot of like really

like gaudy stuff about that scene sort of beyond everything else that's going on there but yeah so that's the scene that I was nervous that this movie would be

and it really isn't except for that scene for the most part yes and I think the movie is conscious of the fact that it will pull back from the scenes that are like that, which is good, which I'm thankful for. What did you think of Leguizamo in this movie? We talked a little bit about him.

I always love John Leguizamo. He's... I've never not loved him. He's incredibly effective in this movie because you really... You get as irritated with his character as Carlito does, basically from the break, right? Where he's so annoying, he's so insufferable. He won't shut up. he won't leave Carlito alone

and those are always the most dangerous characters right those are the ones where it's just like you don't even consider them a threat because he's such a little fucking pip squeak and he's obviously like way more bluster than his bite and Pacino roughs him up in the club the one night and throws him down

a flight of stairs and like spares his life and that's the big operatic thing right where he like he spares Benny Blanco's life and it comes back to haunt him by the end of the movie. But, yeah, Leguizamo is, like, instantly electric. And, like, instantly, like, you are paying attention to his character. This is, again, same year as he played Luigi Mario in Super Mario Brothers, the movie, which is not, like, in the top ten of weird things about Super Mario Brothers the movie.

Dennis Hopper's performance as King Kupa is much. be seen to be believed, and I genuinely feel like Super Mario Brothers the movie was going to get made for a lot of reasons, one of which being Nintendo in the late 80s, and Super Mario Brothers as the emblem of Nintendo was so successful that eventually they were going to make a movie out of it, even though, like, video game movies weren't really a thing, but like it makes sense that that was the thing that jumped that trend. But like, part of me feels like, Super Mario Brothers, the movie exists because somebody looked at Bob Hoskins and they were like, he could be Mario.

Let's think about that. Let's think about doing that. And it happened. I don't know. But then two years after this is two Wong Fu, thanks for everything, Julie Newmar. Another great John Leguizamo performance. Perfect performance. We love.

We love him in that. So, yeah, what else did we want to? Oh, Universal Pictures this year was a real moment. So we talked about Schindler's List, another universal movie, and in the name of the father, a universal movie. So, like, Carlito's Way was up against it, where, like, even if the reviews were better, even if there wasn't this, like, shadow of Scarface,

it was going to take a lot to draw any of the studio's attention slash promotional budget away from Schindler's List especially and if another movie was going to do it it ended up being in the name of the father so tough one for Carlito's way there

this is also the year of Jurassic Park so like Universal is like love in life at this point this year for a year that started They have a lot of money For a year that started off with cop and a half in April like they really

their fortunes took a turn They also had heart and souls I remember going to a drive-in And it was a double bill of Jurassic Park and Cop and a half Yeah Yeah that would fit That would make sense

Interesting year for Universal I'm just going to point out a few Obviously I love heart and souls And I know you do too I do Phenomenal supporting cast in that movie That's the one where Robert Downey Jr. is essentially raised by the ghosts

Of four people who died Alfred Woodard Kira Sedgwick Tom Sysmore and Charles Groden Charles Groden Charles Grosven yeah yep just a delightful movie Alfred Woodard and Kira Sedgwick especially

unsurprisingly I gravitate towards the two lady ghosts but they're amazing also like Elizabeth's all business haircut in that movie is formidable and something to be such sensible skirt suit

yes she is a the living embodiment of the sensible skirt suit in 1993 is Elizabeth Shoe. Very true. They did the remake. Okay, so wait, heart and soul, correct me if I'm wrong. They, he is basically raised by these four ghosts because they all die in like a bus accident where either he is a baby or he is born on that bus. Am I wrong? I'm going to, all right. If you're not exactly right, you're mostly right. Yes.

Because I think they take a bus together. Or no, no, no, no, no. When he helps them fulfill, like, whatever, when he helps them fulfill their, like, goal that they didn't get to meet because they died, they go back on the bus. Here's what it is. They go on the ghost bus. Do you remember who drives the ghost bus?

Isn't it someone like Clint Howard? Well, you're in the right ballpark. It's the better Clint Howard. It's someone like is scummy. It's David. It's David Pamer, hot off of his Oscar nomination for Misty. Saturday night, David Kramer. So what it is, is Seismore, Sedgwick, Woodard, Groden are all on this, like, trolley

bus in like the late 1950s. The trolley bus, I believe, swerves to avoid a car and crashes, and they all die. And the driver does too. The car that they had swerved to avoid was the parents of Robert Downey Jr.'s character driving to the hospital to have him be born. So Donnie Jr. is born, and then those four become his guardian angels. And then he grows up and becomes like a business person and he cares about money and whatever. And they like, they need to, like, correct his course.

And so they figure out that they can, like, inhabit his body to get him to do. Right, because they find out from the David Pamer character that, like, you need to, like, solve your unfinished business. so you can get to heaven. So you will stop being restless ghosts. And they need to inhabit Robert Donnie Jr's body to make that stuff happen. And then it does. And then it's very sad because then they go to heaven, which is nice for them. But, you know, he loved them.

Great 90s movies. Great. From Universal about ghosts with unfinished business. Heart and Souls and Casper. True. Casper is the year after this, right? Casper is 94. This is the film festival we're going to program.

90s Universal Movies About Ghosts with Unfinished Business. You program that one. I will program the movies that exist only as titles, a film festival. It'll be great. What else is in 93? Obviously, dazed and confused, Richard Linklider's Dazed and Confused, which I love and which has everybody in it. Judgment Night, the movie that finally brought together, Emilio Estevez, Cuba Gooding, Jr., Dennis Leary, Stephen Dorff, and I want to say, is ice tea in this one?

Maybe not. But anyway, judgment night. I don't think ice tea's in that one. We're back, a dinosaur story, which I never saw, but exists as like a poster that I see all the time, weirdly. They're back. They're dinosaurs. They're back. A Dangerous Woman, the Stephen Gyllenhaal directed movie with Deborah Winger. Did you ever see that one?

movies that exist only as a poster Yes For me As a video factory Video box for me A Dangerous Woman Yes And then to close out the year

It was the indelible trilogy of Schindler's List In the name of the father And Beethoven Second Beethoven Second Original Song nominee For a really good song Is it Randy Newman?

Is it a Randy Newman song? No It is The song credits are Carol Bayer Cager I was just so much to say. Cliff Magnus.

Of course it's a Jain Grum and Dolly. Right. Right. Which is like this really like lovely huge 90s ballad like romance song. That's great.

And then all of a sudden dolly starts singing about Beethoven and you're like, wait, what? Carol Bayer Sager as a songwriter wasn't the Diane Warren of her day, but that's because she actually won an Oscar. was nominated for writing the lyrics too

nobody does it better from The Spy Who Loved Me nominated for writing the lyrics for Through the Eyes of Love Love theme from Ice Castles Both of those were with Marvin Hammers Wins You're singing on the wings of love

You're singing on the wings of love Which is also James Ingram I'm pretty sure Through the Eyes of Love is the Melissa Manchester I'm pretty sure song that isn't Don't Cry Out Loud If it's Melissa Manchester

And it's not Don't Cry Out Loud It's through the eyes of love She wins the Oscar for Arthur Between the Moon and New York City The best that you can do Which is Listen to the quartet Who wins the Oscar for that

Carol Bayer Sager Burt Backerack Peter Allen and Christopher Cross I'm just saying And then she picks up late career nominations for The Day I Fall in Love from Beethoven Second And then the next year is nominated for

Look What Love Has Done from Junior And that is why Junior is an Oscar nominee Also with James Ingram for that So I love, oh, and she's also nominated Along with David Foster For The Prayer from Quest for Camelot Do we remember that? No

Andrea Bocelli, Celine Dion duet the prayer. Oh, that the prayer. Yes, from Quest for Camelot. That is her last Oscar nomination. She was one of those people who would be like a guest judge on American Idol because Simon Cowell loves nothing better than songwriters who wrote like songs that made a shit ton of money in the 1980s. And it's just like I'm obsessed with that genre of like adult contemporary movie music. That's why I love the original song category from the 80s. I know. I love that we came down this tangent road from Beethoven's

second, which was from Universal Pictures in 1993. Anyway, we're back. A Dinosaur story. Best original song was a better category when there were key changes. That's all I'm saying. I agree with you. What was it in 1993? It was Beethoven

2nd. Oh, this was Philadelphia. Streets of Philadelphia. Yeah, double Philadelphia. again for poetic justice. And what am I forgetting? It was a very song-forward movie, but most of the songs were like retro past, like retro... Oh, Sleepless in Seattle. Sleepless in Seattle. Mark Shaman nominated for Sleepless in Seattle that year.

Yeah, again, getting the nomination for poetic justice, I'm just happy that Janet Jackson, Jimmy Jam, and Terry Lewis are all Oscar nominees and will forever be. we're very happy about that uh anything else we want to say about carlito's way and not uh carol bayer sager or heart and souls or beethoven or poetic justice um Pacino yeah i was glad that uh we should just let's just say that like that's not casting that should have especially like it's like al Pacino and then like his cronies like louis guzman and john legozamo and it's just like Like, Pachino, like, no, we can't do that anymore.

That's not a thing. That's not a thing we're doing. Yeah, please cease and desist. Cease and desist, indeed. Yeah, I was happy that it was not as scary and violent as... Though, I mean, this movie gets very violent all of a sudden, like, with Sean Penn beating a man, skull in with a crowbar. Yes.

But, yeah. Yeah, not bad. I liked it. I don't, again, didn't, like, flip my lid for it or anything. But it's pretty good. Did we want to talk an IMDB game? Yeah. So, guys, every week, we end our episodes with the IMDB game, where we challenge each other with an actor or actress

to try to guess the top four titles that IMDB says they are most known for. If any of those titles are television or voiceover work, we'll mention that up front. After two wrong guesses, we get the remaining titles release years as a clue, and if that's not enough, it just becomes a free for all of hints. That's good. That's the I'm going to game. Before me do that, though, I did pick up my little notebook full of notes, and I did want to mention one thing, which was Paul Mazurski's cameo in this movie as the judge in the opening scene. Oh, I miss that, and I love Paul Mazurski. Where the opening scene is Pacino is getting his conviction overturned on a technicality. And he's sort of giving this grandiose, sort of thumbing his nose in the justice system's face a little bit. And Rebhorn is the district attorney, and he's like, you know, scowling and whatnot. And Pacino starts like, I want to thank my lawyer, I want to think whatever.

And Mazurski just goes, you're not accepting an award, sir. And I thought that was just very funny. And also, Penelope Ann Miller's white two-piece, flowy-armed disco outfit that we see her first in this movie is quite something. So credit to Audie Bronson Howard. And we're very happy. Well time. Good costumes.

All right. IMDB game. Did you want to give or guess first? Uh, how about I give first this week? Why don't you? Why don't I? Okay, so we talked about Penelopee Ann Miller. We talked about how she was basically the lady to whatever the dude story was in a lot of her movies.

This movie truly, I didn't say this, but like, I maybe have not seen, this is one thing against the movie. I've maybe not seen a movie where, like, the lady was truly just the lady in a movie as much as Carlita's way. So I looked for a movie where there was a dude to her protagonist and the one that I came up with from the movie Relic, her co-star Tom Seismore. Oh, shit. Oh, Tom Seismore is going to be tough. Okay. All right. Tom Seismore.

Now I have to start mentally separating the Tom Seismore rules from the Michael Madsmore. and rolls in my brain, and that's going to be difficult to do. All right, he's definitely in Saving Private Ryan, is one of them Saving Private Ryan? Saving Private Ryan is correct. He's a real son of a bitch, I believe it turns out, in Strange Days, so I'm going to guess Strange Days. Strange Days is also correct. Okay, all right, we're on a roll. Tom Sysmore.

The problem with Tom Seismore is He doesn't have any lead roles So you're just sort of sifting through the sandbox For supporting roles And He's in a ton He's in a ton of movies where he's a supporting player I can't imagine

The Relic is actually one of those So I'm not going to guess that Seismore I feel like late 90s sweet spot for him, maybe early 2000s sweet spot. What else is he in? He plays a lot of like scumbaggy types. I wonder why.

What do I remember him from? Now I almost want to like burn a couple of guesses just to get some hints but oh well we did natural born killers he's a very small role in that but I'm going to guess

no we just talked about heart and souls is heart and soul is one of them no heart and souls is not on there should be should be absolutely should be yeah it's one of his you know few likable guys

But even in that movie He's like the scummy one of the four-casts Yes, it's true But like in a very like You know mainstream comedy kind of a way Sure, sure, sure, sure, sure All right, now I'm going to guess Natural Born Killers

No, natural born killers is incorrect So your years are 1997 and 2001 2001 All right You were walking up to the door of this So I was going to be really mad if you got a perfect score on Tom Sysmore. Yeah. 2001. Maybe I'll wait.

97. 97 is sort of the sweet spot that I'm thinking. What's in 97? I think he's in heat, but that's 95. I can't wait for you to be mad. Is it the relic? It's the relic. Motherfucker.

How is that possible? How is genuinely how is that possible? I hate you. All right, 2001. Major Oscar nominee. Obviously not for Tom Size. Major Oscar nominee in 2001. yes um oh one he's not it'd be wild as hell if he was in gosford park i'll tell you what um he's not in in the bedroom he's not is he in a beautiful mind he's not in a beautiful mind bigger cast than a beautiful mind and not gosford park not gosford park okay yeah yeah he's like the lord of the manor

in Gossford Park. Oh, no, you were thinking of Michael Gambon. Sorry. Yes. Easily confused. I can't tell you all the times that I've confused them. Oh, is he one of the bagillion men in Black Hawk Down? He is indeed one of the bagillion men in Black Hawk Down, and that is his fourth movie

Unknown for. All right. That's wild. That's the fucking relic. I hate you. All right. For you, sir, I have chosen. I stuck with De Palma.

We talked a little bit about the post bonfire of the Vanities movies that he made, one of which was a film called Raising Kane, which is about a doctor who has an evil twin, right? That's the thing? Yes. And it's like, is it supernatural or is it just like he's the good twin and there's an evil twin? it's yeah it's just it's very very or is it or is it split personalities is it twin or is it's personalities i think what it is is is that it is split personalities but you're led to believe

until the end that it is like an evil twin situation okay all right anyway the man who plays the lead role in that film is john lithgow and so i'm going to give you john miscar a billion movies one television show is that well he's on the crown now well not now I feel like people don't really talk about that I'm going to guess it's the one that probably he got the most awards for

and say third rock from the sun correct third rock from the sun okay so what was he Oscar nominated for It's GARP, and I think there's more, but I forget what the other one or other two might have been. So I'm going to guess Garp. The World According to Garp, correct. One of your trivia questions from last week.

Has he been nominated for other Oscars? I feel like he has like three Oscar nominations. He has two Oscar nominations. Oh, okay. Back to back years. he's the evil conservative father in Kinsey and that has shown up for people I don't think it's going to be that

um isn't he is he the he's the Michael Kane in Interstellar right isn't he an interstellar? I mean Michael Kane is also the Michael Kane in interstellar but yeah they're both in interstellar I'm going to say interstellar incorrect but that's not a bad guess okay um

so I have two one wrong guess so far what like huge blockbuster movies has he been in because it's got to be something there's got to be with two more slots there's got to be something that's big oh wait is there any voice work

nope Hey, so no, Shrek, that's shocking. Oh, yeah, not Shrek. He's in the Planet of the Apes movies, but I forget which one. He's in the first one of the new series, so Rise of the Planet of the Apes. Incorrect. That's a good guess. He is in Rise of the Planet of the Apes, though. Damn it. James Franco's boss, right, or something? Mentor, father.

I think he's James Franco's, like, dad or grandpa. Right. Okay. All right, so that's too wrong. So you will get years now. Your years are going to be 1993 and 2014. Okay. Well, 2014 is the same year's interstellar. Wait, does that love is strange?

Love is strange. Iris Sacks' love is strange. God, I love that movie. So good. So good. So good. Would have been a great Oscar nomination for him. Okay, what was the other year, 93.

Oh, so the year we've been talking about. The year we've been talking about. Is this an Oscar nominee? I believe so, let me check. My IMDB is being very temperamental for me lately. Nominated for three Oscars, in fact. Okay Huh

Three Oscars Is like one of them Screenplay? No No no No as in Not that Not that high up the card

So Like craft categories Yes Huh only three non-acting nominations from this year is

three Oscar nominations four Razzie nominations Oh, okay so not a good movie I think I don't know if I would go that far I mean I think I can see why the

Razzie nominations materialized, but I think people remember this movie fondly, even if it's remembered. Why? Is it, is it one of the people that the Razzie's hate? Yes. Is it like... Except that person didn't get a nomination.

Lithgow. It's not like, who did they hate in the 90s? It's one of the main people they hate in the 90s. It's too early. Right. Wait, is it Stallone? Yes.

is it cliffhanger? It's cliffhanger. Lithgow is the villain flying around in a helicopter in cliffhanger. Yeah. Oscar nominated for sound mixing, sound effects, editing, and visual effects.

Razzie nominated for Worst Picture. That's also Rennie Harlan, so they also hate Rennie Harlan. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Worst picture, worst supporting actor, John Lithgow, worst supporting actress, Janine Turner, and worst screenplay, which is Stallone co-wrote the screenplay. So they did nominate Stallone after all.

But not his acting, interestingly. Wow. No Lord Farquod. No Lord Farquod. Yeah. Interesting. Oh, boy. There we have it.

That is our episode, though, Chris. That's nothing else you want to add. Hey, listen, Chris, talk about our May miniseries. Guys, you know, I was actually thinking about it. this week. At this point, you should know, if you don't follow us on Twitter, our main miniseries is coming, and we are going to be talking about the films of focus features, our beloved focus features. I imagine I will put a drop in here of the focus features sound. Okay, but you know what the 90s version is of that ASMR opening of focus features?

It's the universal logo in the 90s, where it's like, there's that fanfare that's not too like not too pomp and circumstance but like that beautiful globe like turning it feels like possibilities in motion before it turned into a CGI short film

that starts in the deepest recesses of space and ends up circling planet earth before that happened what would happen to like you know the tie and, you know, if there was a big,

if there was a giant, universal. Yeah. Universal floating above our atmosphere. It's just like, well, I was supposed to get married next Saturday, but we're going to be under the end and universal all day that day. So like, it's going to be really cloudy.

We're going to have to wait a week. We're going to have to wait a week, exactly. Yeah. But guys, yes, our May miniseries this year, we're going to be doing Focus Features. We have five episodes in May, which gives us four titles we're going to be doing, and then we're going to kick

it off with a listener's choice. Joe, talk about the birth of focus features and how it started from two indie offshoots, and then I'll give the options. Right. So one of the great, interesting things about focus features is that it already had built up its reputation before it ever became focus features. It was originally formed from a kind of a, there's an amalgam, right? There was Grammarcy Pictures, Polygram, Good Machine, and then October Films.

And they were all sort of wrapped into an entity that was called USA Films for a few years, had some pretty big successes there. And then in 2002, became Focus Features. So, yeah, so for our listener's choice, we're going to have three films from the October Films era, and then one from USA Films. So it's going to be the last seduction, which is the 1994 film with Linda Fiorentino, that aired on HBO and was thus declared ineligible for film awards, which is too bad because she's great.

High Art, the Ali Sheedy, Rada Mitchell, Patricia Clarkson movie. That was from 1998, October films. Ali Sheedy wins a Independent Spirit Award for that film. Very good movie. The Muse, the Albert Brooks film with Sharon Stone, Golden Globe nominee. also October films. And then for the USA Films era, we'll be represented by

the Sigourney Weaver, Julianne Moore. Oprah Book Club. Oprah Book Club, Dead Child and Suburbia film, A Map of the World. So it's an interesting one. I don't think there is a runaway frontrunner among those four.

I will be very interested to see. We chose this well in particularly to, like, create some competition. I think it'll be pretty heated for all four. Yeah. So support which one you want to hear us talk about the most, which one you think will be the most interesting episode, maybe your favorite of the four, whichever way you want to vote, vote. But we will be happy to do whatever you choose. Yeah. Had underscore Oscar underscore Buzz on Twitter. I'll mention it again in a second when we do our outro. But yeah, very excited. starting today in uh today being uh monday the uh whatever the monday is uh monday the 19th monday the 19th um through midday on the 20th uh sorry to listeners who don't uh jump immediately on the bandwagon or no the poll is starting on the 20th yes so yeah through midday on the 21st hop on it will announce the winner all right that is our episode. If you want more of This Had Oscar Buzz, you can check out the Tumblr at

this had oscarbuzz.com. You should also follow our Twitter account at Had underscore Oscar underscore Buzz. This episode is supported in part by Gateway Film Center, a non-profit cinema committed to supporting storytellers. Authentic stories can inspire new ideas, entertain, push boundaries, spark new levels of empathy, and advance social change. To learn more about their program and plan your visit for award season weekend, please visit gatewayfilmcenter.org. Chris, where can the listeners find you in your stuff? You can find me on Twitter at Crispy File. That's F-E-I-L and also on letterboxed under the same name.

I am also on Twitter at Joe Reed, Reed-spelled R-E-I-D. I'm on letterboxed as the same name. Joe Reed, Reed, spelled R-E-I-D. We would like to thank Kyle Cummings for his fantastic artwork and Dave Gonzalez and Gavin Mievious for their technical guidance. Please remember to rate and review us on Apple Podcasts, Google Play, Stitcher, Spotify, wherever you get podcasts. A five-star review in particular

really helps us out with Apple Podcasts visibility. So quit hiding out on that escalator at Grand Central Station and write us something nice, won't you? That is all for this week. Shoot us something nice, please. That's all for this week,

but we hope you'll be back next week for more buzz. She said, hello, hey Joe, you want to give it a go. Yeah. Ginti, ginti, yeah, nah, da, da. Ginti, ginti, yeah, yeah, here. Mosa, jokalalata, yeah, yeah.