This Had Oscar Buzz - 142 – Friends with Money

Episode Date: April 26, 2021

This episode, we are returning to the career of the great Nicole Holofcener with 2006′s enesemble comedy Friends With Money. The film stars Jennifer Aniston as the housemaid friend to three wealthy women played by Joan Cusack, Catherine Keener, and Frances McDormand, and studies class and friendship with the kind of wit and grace that’s made … Continue reading "142 – Friends with Money"

This episode is supported in part by Gateway Film Center, a non-profit cinema committed to supporting storytellers. Authentic stories can inspire new ideas, entertain, push boundaries, spark new levels of empathy, and advance social change. To learn more about their program and plan your visit for award season weekend, please visit gatewayfilmcenter.org. Oh, oh, wrong house. No, the right house. We want to talk to Marilyn Heck. I'm from Canada water. I'm angry because these two people cut in line in front of me and everyone is letting them get away with it.

Them, there, those two people with their stupid faces. All right, look, I'm sorry. I don't have my entire life figured out. Thank God. It's not like we have all our lives figured out. I would feel a lot better about giving you the money. If you went to a therapist. You buy your two-year-old daughter $80 shoes from France, and you're just giving me a hard time.

You know how's a lot of sex? Matt and Freddie. Well, I would have a lot of sex if I had that much money. I mean, you know, nothing to worry about, no stress. Hello and welcome to the This Head Oscar Buzz podcast. the only podcast that ends with a chase through Grand Central Station. Every week on this had Oscar Buzz we'll be talking about a different movie that once upon a time

had Lofty Academy Award aspirations, but for some reason or another, it all went wrong. The Oscar hopes died, and we are here to perform the autopsy. I am your host, Chris Fyle, and I'm here, as always, with my personal trainer who tells me about all his sex stuff, Joe Reed. You casting me as Scott Kahn is the nicest thing you've ever said about me, so I will take that compliment.

I was worried it would be mean because he's terrible in this movie. Yes, but he's so good-looking. He's just so good-looking. Yes. Dushes. Oh, yeah. So it's like he gives, he does a good job. He has a real talent. He has many talents. That is one of them. I feel like you can always tell in our outline when I am writing up these outlines because the problem is I will sometimes create our outline as I'm watching the movie. I was watching the movie and it suddenly hit me that I couldn't remember who her love interest is in the movie and I was trying to think of like what like mid-level younger because like there was that streak where like Jennifer Anderson's characters were always like dating people somewhat younger right you're Jake Gyllenhalls you're uh there was somebody else too but yeah Jake Gyllen Hall and the Good Girl is the one I'm mainly thinking of and like of course it was Scott Con of course in 2006 that guy was Scott Con. If for a second, when I saw her walk up to the Lancombe counter as she's scamming all her little Lancombe creams, the one guy for a second looked like Kevin Zeggers, and I was just like, oh, no, it's not Kevin Zeggers. And then it wasn't. It was the, it was the persnickety

gay guy behind the counter who was pissed at her. But apparently the first woman who she scams lotion off of is Catherine Keener's sister. Oh, fascinating. At least I'm assuming, because her name, her name is Elizabeth Keener. And I was just like, well, that's got to be her. And then, like, there is a resemblance, so... This is a good movie. What a good movie. Our second Nicole Hollif Center... Yes.

Out of only six movies, she's only directed six movies. And... Yeah. And I think all of them are... Go ahead. Yeah, well, I think we're going to say the same thing. Pretty much all of them, I would say with the exception of the land of steady habits, the one that we...

We never want to talk about that movie. Anyway... Yeah. We could probably do episodes on all of them. I don't know about walking and talking, though. No, walking and talking is the one that, like, puts her on the map and then in retrospect, everybody was just like, that was such a good movie. But, like, even, I don't even think she got an Independent Spirit Award nomination for that.

And, like, she's gotten Independent Spirit Awards for everything except for walking and talking and Land of Steady Habits. She's gotten screenplay nominations at least. She won at least once, because she won for, can you ever forgive me a couple years ago. But she's been nominated for lovely and amazing, friends with money, please give, and enough said. And like that makes sense.

Well, and I didn't necessarily want to like get into this off the top of it, but it is still very sad to me that her one Oscar nomination is for Can You Ever Forgive Me, the movie that was originally going to be her movie and then fell apart. Yes. It's ironic, yes. Went through a rewrite and is now Mariel Heller's movie, who we absolutely also love, too. Right. It's just interesting.

Right. Yeah, that whole making of that movie, for a movie that turns out to be so just wonderful and lovely and like all the things we want out of, you know, a character, dromedy kind of a thing. And because it comes from both Nicole Hollif Center and Mariel Heller, it, you, on paper, it seems. seems like, oh, that's like double the good feeling. And then it's just like, oh, but the making of this was probably pretty fraught. And, you know, with it being Hall of Center's movie originally and Julianne Moore had been cast. And then it was Hall of Center who fired Julianne Moore, right? That's what she had said. Julianne Moore says that she was fired. By Hollop Center, right? Yes. It seems like there was a, like, major creative difference between the two of them. Julianne Moore wanted to wear a fat suit, and it just free, to me, it seems like they just really didn't see eye to eye and we're not going to. And Julianne Moore's participation in the movie was probably how they had the funding for it. Yes.

And when Nicole Hollif Center was like, well, it's not going to work with Julianne, then the movie just didn't happen. Much as I love Julianne Moore, I am very thankful that that movie was not Julianne Moore in a fat suit. Well, it was also going to be a very different movie, too, because it was Mariel Heller that brought on Jeff Whitty, and, like, I know a lot of the Richard Entertainment Grant stuff changed in Maryle Haller's vision. Perfection, and I'm very glad we have it. But also, we have all these wonderful movies from Nicole Hollifson or to enjoy. And I think Around Friends with Money was around the time, because it's her third feature, it's another film with a pretty much exclusively female lead cast

Walking and talking is a lot about relationships So like the male characters in that Are more prominent Sort of like Friends with Money Where like all of their relationships are actually really important But like the main characters are the women And By Friends with Money

I think this is when people And because she called it Friends With Money And it was about money I think a lot of people sort of realized Oh, that's interesting That like there's this kind of I'm trying to like draw the through line of like

you know these sort of because they're not all well to do white women in all of her movies like walking and talking they're kind of they're pretty you know modest apartments in New York City that kind of a thing but like certainly yeah but friends with money and please give her really interesting because that's when she started her movies

really focus on the kind of economic lives of the women in her movies. And it's a lot of like, there's a lot of hand-wringing over what to do in a world where I have money and not everybody has money. And Hall of Center's perspective is really interesting because she doesn't move outside of her characters, but she definitely interrogates them. And I wonder if there's a little bit of the response to some of those, because with friends with money and please give, the critical acclaim got a little mixed. And I think it's that there was a little bit of a

trouble to separate when she's writing about these characters being who they are and behaving how they behave without like having other people in that film universe sort of indict them. And it's just like, no. And I don't think she needs to do that. And I think a lot, I think more and more critics seem to feel like she did need to do that. Does that make sense? Am I being too vague? No, I don't think you're being too vague. I think definitely because we're a decade out from most of these movies.

We're talking, most of her movies. We have a smarter eye on it now. I think this is maybe the movie that critically got the most misinterpretation of thinking that it's not actually critiquing these women in their privilege when I think. it absolutely is. Right, right. Maybe not as harshly as say something like, please give

is. I mean, like, that's what Nicole Hall of Center movies are about. Like, they're weirdly these comforting movies, but they are about like these like you know, sticky areas of

like economics and people of like adjacent class levels, how they interact. But I do think she, largely in her movies, is examining female white privilege. In a way that's still, like, not this wholly antagonistic way. Like, she's a very humanist filmmaker, very, like, observational filmmaker,

but also has a lot of empathy for people who can behave inappropriately and badly. She's not really interested in seeing her characters, get comeuppance or some sort of like cosmic justice. Right. And she also writes, especially in those first four movies. No, I would say in everything, actually. She writes very introspective, neurotic, sort of like characters who are constantly interrogating their own lives and constantly sort of evaluating and, you know, picking

apart their own lives and the lives of the people sort of closest to them. I think that's one of the best things about Friends with Money is the way we're like, at any point, two characters are together and they're talking about the ones that are not there. And in a way that, like, gets very much into how a lot of friend groups are, right? Where it's just like, you know, two will talk about a third and three will talk about a fourth and that kind of thing. And it's just a really well-observed friend dynamic. and also the stuff about the economic inequality never seems too heavy-handed. It always seems like, because I think if you went too heavy-handed with this, you would get too far to the level of, well, how are they all even friends?

And you get to the edge of that with friends with money, where like Joan Cusack even says, like, if I had that. Well, there's that scene that comes at the exact right moment towards the end of the movie. That's like if they met now, they probably wouldn't or couldn't be friends. but I also don't think I think Nicole Hollis Center is really smartly throughout the whole movie just taking that on its face

whereas I think a lesser movie would want the audience to question well why are they even friends from the very beginning I never doubt the authenticity of their friendship and would want them to sort of stop being friends by the end do you know what I mean that would want the end to be like a breaking off point you're right

you're exactly right though she keeps things exactly on the right side of you never don't believe that these four were or are friends. Like, you absolutely believe this kind of bond between them. And you never really need scenes where, like, they say it. You never have that scene where Olivia says to Frannie or Al, or sorry, Jane, or Christine, you know, you're my friend because of this. And this is why we're still friends or whatever. You just buy it from the way that they interact and the way that the dialogue is.

very familiar between them and the way that like bad feelings only linger for so long and resentments really only linger for so long. There's, you know, Franny and Olivia, the Joan Cusack and Jennifer Anson characters, probably have the longest fight of any characters in this movie among the women. It's not really even like a fight fight. It's just a tense, real conversation. I also think there's one thing that kind of really pulls that. dynamic off that I think a lesser movie would do this and Nicole Hollis Center does

does not like include this scene is you would get a scene where it's the three wealthy women together and they do talk about her but it doesn't feel like it's not so gross it could like yeah they're not ganging up on her they're not like sitting around and talking about their poor friend you know and yet there is unavoidable condescension in those scenes the way we're like Joan Cusack and Greg German, who plays her husband, talk about, well, she, you know, Francis McDormon at the dinner at the very beginning, kind of rudely, but in a way that, like, fits her character, says to Cusack, like, don't donate $2 million to your dumb, well-off school. Like, give it to Olivia.

She really needs it. And on the ride home, Cusack sort of starts to, you know, as she is, she's sort of like, wishy-washy, and she's, maybe I should give it to Olivia. And German has this thing of just, like, no, that. would be weird. And she's like, well, maybe we should hire her to clean the house. And he's like, no, that would be too weird. And there's this condescension of just like, we can't employ her because that would like underline the class difference between us. And we can't give her money because it would underline the class difference between us. And if we don't do

either of those, then we won't have to think about the class difference between us. And it's just like, there's that unavoidable condescension there. And I think the Halif Center writes it really well and really perfectly and never tips it too far in the direction of God, these people are gross, I wish Olivia would just like tear them all new assholes and just like be done with all of them. Like you don't get to that point. And it's a much better movie because of that. So we love this movie, you guys. Yeah. I have one or two sort of like significant snags with it that we'll get into probably after the plot description because my one my biggest one is about how it ends but um yeah it's a really wonderful

movie it is a brisk 87 i think like it's pretty um Nicole doesn't waste time yeah 88 minutes yes uh really and just like so that's the other thing about her movies is that they get this is probably her most starry cast like front tobacco where it's just like Jennifer for Aniston, like, massive star of television and film. Friends had ended. She had the marriage with Brad Pitt was a year in the background, and she was obviously, obviously, like, a People magazine, Us Weekly, like, mainstay for good or ill. But, like, McDormand, Cusack, obviously Catherine Keener is her kind of mainstay. But she attracts really good actors because she writes really, you know, interesting parts.

But she cast so intelligently. Mm-hmm. And on its face, I don't know if I would have necessarily been like, oh, yeah, these four women are friends. Just if you give me the cast. But, like, she really makes it work in the movie in a way that, like, I really love. Aniston's great in this movie.

She's, I, it's probably her best performance. Yeah, yes. There's also something about it, too, that, like, it's these four actresses together make so much like sense with this script like watching it this time I was even thinking about you could even

like change up some of these roles we should mention Joan Cusack's name is Fran um yeah yeah and I just kind of felt like these are just like the right people to be in Nicole Hall of Center movies

um yeah do this movie in repertory where every every week they they swap roles they sort of like pick rolls out of the It's true. It could really work. You can definitely see Keener playing Aniston's role and vice versa. I want to see Joan Cusack screaming in an Old Navy too. Yes, exactly. Exactly. This movie also the specific cultural references are all

sort of like very well chosen. The fact that that whole meltdown happens in an Old Navy when they're at the auction at the end, there are two moments that I really loved at that auction. One with, I think it's Keener who goes through and she's like Bruce Witherspoon will knit me a sweater when they're going through all the things that they could bid on is a really funny line. And then one of the other prizes is a walk-on roll on nip-tuck, which is perfect. And Simon McBurney, the one that they think is gay, absolutely wants that. Simon McBurney is really good in this movie, too. He's one of those, like, character actors who you really see in, like, especially a lot of British things. He was in one of the Mission Impossible movies. He's in, like, any movie about, he's in, like, Tinker Taylor Soldier Spy, all these sort of, like...

Yeah, he's always like the voice of Big Brother. He plays roles like that in movies. And it's a really atypical role in this movie, but I think he does a really great job with it. Well, when we talk about Nicole Hollif Center movies in relation to the actors and the stars of them, we talk about the women, right? But as we should, but like Nicole Hollisenter really knows how to cast men very, very well in roles that, like, are seemingly atypical, but they are great. Oliver Platt is incredible. And please give. I was watching clips of walking and talking before we started recording.

And, like, you forget how great Leav Schreiber is in that movie. And just, like, really appealing in a way that, like, most Leav Schreiber roles are very kind of, almost like, taciturn, like, very, he doesn't give you much outward exuberant emotion. And, like, he's not, he's, he's very expressive in walking and talking. And he's like, it's a really great role for him. I love that movie. And obviously, we've talked about enough said on this podcast before and how great Gandalfini is in it. Yeah. So, yes.

Yeah, you're totally right. The most handsome man, James Gantlefini. All right. Why don't I do the plot description now so we can get into more of the ploty stuff? Because I want to talk about Simon McBernie's character a lot, and I want to talk about the ending a lot. And, yeah. Yes, absolutely. All right, guys.

So we are here talking about Nicole Hall of Center's Friends with Money, starring Jennifer Aniston, Francis McDormon, Joan, Cusack, Catherine, Keener, Scott Khan, Jason Isaac, Simon McBurney, Greg German, Ty Borell, which I always forget Ty Borel is in this movie. Yeah. And Bob Stevenson, who's also really good. Yes. The movie played Sundance in 2006 and then had its limited opening of April 7th, just a few months later. Yeah.

Joe, you seem very gung-ho to give this 60-second plot description, so I'm going to assume that you, sir, are ready. Yes, I'm ready. All right, Joe read, your 60-second plot description for Friends with Money starts now. All right, Franny, Jane, Christine, and Olivia are all longtime friends. Franie, Jane, and Christine are all rich while Olivia is not. Franie is played by Joan Cusack. She's the wealthiest. She's happily married with kids, but sometimes she's at a loss as to what to do with all her money.

Jane is Francis McDormant. She's a fashion designer. She's increasingly very angry, and everybody thinks her husband is gay. Catherine Keener is Christine who's unhappily married to her screenwriting partner who clearly doesn't respect her and is building a second story onto their house and is like jackass

Jennifer Anderson is Olivia who quit her job as a teacher now she works as a maid she smokes a lot of pot and her friends are all very concerned about her. The women talk a lot about each other about how Franie should give Olivia some of her money about how Jane's husband is gay and Christine's marriage is terrible and Olivia's life is a disaster. Jane has a freak out

in an old navy and ends up breaking her nose Christine and her husband end up separating. Olivia starts seeing Franny's hymbo trainer, who isn't nice, but who's played by Scott Kahn, so obviously Olivia has sex with him a few times, and good for her. But by the end, Olivia ends up with the sweet, hapless, secretly wealthy schlub whose house she cleaned. And that's a tale as old as time. Yeah. That's it.

That's the movie. So the ending is the thing I have the biggest problem with. The ending of Olivia ending up with the guy, which I don't, I like that she ends up with the guy. like a small contrivance, but I do think it's earned. Well, this is my problem with it, because it plays to me, so she's, she takes this guy whose name is, shit, I can't remember his name in the movie now. Um, uh, Marty. Marty, thank you. Marty, who she had like, guys like this are all named Marty. Right. She meets him at the beginning. He's a disaster. She agrees to clean his house for less than she normally would. Um,

and then she, like, after her whole disaster with Scott Kahn, sort of like meets up with him again, and like, oh, they like, they have a conversation and they find out that they, you know, have some stuff in common and they really get along. And he's kind of atypical for her and she brings him around to this benefit and he kind of, you know, he's not fancy, he sort of sticks out, but he does well with her there and he likes her friends. And so they're on the ride home from this thing. And he reveals that he secretly and incongruously with everything that he has presented himself as is really wealthy because his father was very wealthy and his father left him all his money. And it plays to me like Olivia is being rewarded for choosing the, for kissing the frog, essentially. and because of that, now she gets to be wealthy like all of her friends, because she's going to end up with this guy who has money. And the reward aspect of that felt a little gross and a little not, like, unchill a little bit, a little bit like, oh, like this movie shouldn't end quite so pat. And I just didn't love the idea that just like, oh, because she decided to go for the schlubby guy,

she's going to get cosmically rewarded with all this money. I get all of that. I don't know if the movie completely ends fully Pat, because, like, I actually love the final note of the movie that, like, says that there is a true connection there, and, like, maybe this relationship isn't built to last because it's him saying he has a lot of problems, and she, like, says the same, whatever,

and it ends on this nice note. But I feel like it's more, of, I mean, I appreciate this about the movie, but this is the contrivance I feel like it has. It feels like she has to put someone in the equation, Hall of Center, I mean, that there has to be some person that's like, well, not all people flaunt their money, or not all people are fully wrapped up in what their money is if they have it, you know? that kind of feels like forceful to me more so than she ends up with this guy because she does have this weird connection to him that feels genuine but also like he's a rich guy who is seemingly the nice rich guy but she doesn't let him fully off the hook because he like haggled with her for her um her cleanly cleaning fee for his house. Got her down to 50 from 65. It was just like,

okay. I like him. I like that actor. I like the character. I just felt like... He's the coach and Lady Bird, too. That has to be the theater director. Yes. Wonderful.

Wonderful performance in Lady Bird. Yeah. But yeah, Anniston in this is really fantastic. And in a way that like, so her career obviously is incredibly interesting. She burst onto the scene in 1993 with Lepricon, which we all remember as being the star-making performance that it was.

We were all talking about Lepricon. Everybody got the haircut that Jennifer Aniston had in Lepricon. And, you know, it was a sensation around the world. And also she did a little thing on television on NBC or something like that. Yeah. This is not a sequel to the television show. Right. Right. Right. Friends, parentheses with money. Yeah, no, she's Rachel on Friends. She's like a gigantic star that like everybody in that cast goes from like zero to, you know, wildly famous right away. And she was the one, and again, because it's Hollywood and Hollywood is incredibly shallow. She was the one that everybody decided, oh, she's the prettiest. We have decided. And so we have decided that she will have the movie star career. Even though, interestingly enough,

In those early few years, Courtney Cox was the one with the big blockbuster, because she was in the Screen franchise. And Lisa Kudra was the one making the really interesting artistic choices. She was in the opposite of sex and got all those raves, and she is in Clock Watchers, and obviously, you know, Romeo and Michelle, which at the time was not respected like it should have been, but whatever. But Lisa Kudrow was the one that was showing, like, a degree of versatility. Like, Romeo and Michelle isn't that far off from Phoebe Buffet, but like, opposite of sex is a whole other different world, a whole other character.

But that was also kind of what we expected out of Lisa Kudrow was, oh, she's the quirky one on Friends. She'll have the quirky career. And so that was sort of like in line. And it kind of was a little slow starting for Aniston where, like, she's in office space, which is like a mass is a cults of following. and she's really good in that. But, like, object of my affection isn't the hit that it, that they probably wanted it to be. And nor is something like, well, picture, how did Picture Perfect do? Now I wanted to investigate this.

I don't think it did that well. Right. Like, it did okay. It was definitely, like, even in rom-com terms, like, a B-tier rom-com, where it was, like, my best friend's wedding is the A-tier. Yeah, $44 million worldwide. This isn't a disaster for a romantic comedy, but it's not, like, it's not, you know, my best friend's wedding or anything like that. So, like, it was that kind of stuff where it was just like, oh, we feel like we should be making it happen for her as, like, a mainstream rom-com big star. She does, she's, and then she's like, oh, she's the girlfriend and rock star.

Like, what, that's super thankless. And then 2003, the good girl comes out after playing at, oh, no, it was 2002, after playing. after playing at Sundance. Yes. And that's the movie where it's like, oh, she's playing against type. She's wearing all this, like, heavy eye makeup, and she's sad and she's depressed and all the sort of stuff.

It's a Mike White scripted movie, directed by Miguel Artetta, and got a lot of great reviews out of Sundance and was like, oh, this is Jennifer Aniston playing against type. She's great. And she got, like, a lot of great reviews. And I'm pretty sure she got awards, attention for that.

She got an independent spirit award nomination. She got a Globe nomination for that? She didn't, but she was probably in the mix for that. I don't love the good girl, and I think her, the raves for her in that film, she's not bad in it, certainly. I think Zoe Dishonell is the really interesting one as the best friend in that movie. But I think what she does in friends with money, is, I think, what a lot of people really loved, like, really praised her for in The Good Girl.

Like, my version of The Good Girl for her is Friends with Money, where it's just like she's not playing the Rachel notes in her persona, right? She's not, she's very, like, downbeat. She's very, like, grounded. And whereas The Good Girl, I don't think is that. I think it's going for a similar, like, stretching of what Jennifer Aniston has done or, like, the type of character she's played, and it pushes it so far in a certain direction. Yeah. Not, like, to the cake extreme, but, like, enough that it's like, it doesn't, it feels forceful or effortful. Even though she's good, it's just, it's not on the level of Friends with Money.

I agree. I think with Friends with Money, it's very relaxed, it's very lived in, and it's incredibly believable. And some of that's probably because she's working with a better script in this movie. Oh, absolutely. I absolutely think so. And that her, you know, her scene partners in all of these scenes, especially with the women, are all really good. And also, this is four years after The Good Girl. Like, she's improved as an actress just from, you know, being in things.

and I think she's really wonderful in this movie I think the whole cast is great but like she might be the most impressive one out of all of them and of course this is the kind of There's also something to say for the fact that at this point with Friends with Money Friends was over

and like that's a whole other stage of her career once like that like Friends is fully a closed chapter and like Friends petered out towards the end where we knew the end was coming but, and that's like around the time the good girl happened, but like, I don't know.

Also, so Friends with Money happens at a really interesting time for her, both career and her life. So she had, after the good girl, she has the big hit with Bruce Almighty, but she's, again, just playing the girlfriend in that. She's the love interest in a long-came poly. She's the titular love interest in Long-Came Polly. But then 2005, she has two really big bombs. She has derailed with Clive Owen that I believe is like a train. Dean Co. Movie. Yeah. And Rumor has it, which is the sequel, spiritual sequel, quasi-quas-i kind of meta-textual sequel to the graduate that Rob Reiner directed. And everybody was clamoring for. Well, the cast is great. It's like her and Shirley McLean and Kevin Costner and Mark Ruffalo and everybody's just like, can't miss. And it's so bad.

A spiritual sequel to The Graduate, though, on what? Right, right. We could do that movie, so we don't have to go into it. It was based on a book, right? Somebody had written, no, it wasn't. It was original screenplay by Ted Griffin. That's interesting. I thought somebody had written like a book or something like that.

Anyway, just very odd and very strange and like it just doesn't work on any kind of level. And so that was like a really bad. So I think the good reviews that she got for Friends with Money were mostly focused on good rebound from Abysmal 2005. And also, oh, isn't it good that she's got something nice because she's divorced from Brad Pitt? This was definitely the sad gen era, like peak sad gen where everybody was very concerned about her, but in this very, again, condescending way, which kind of really dovetails into the movie, where like all the other women are very like, oh, poor Olivia, what's to be done about Olivia? And like, we as a culture were kind of like that about Jennifer Aniston.

It was just like, oh, did she want a baby? Did she not want a baby? Is she sad? Yeah, and it overshadowed the movie at the time. Yes. Which is, again, too bad because she's great. And also too bad because she doesn't get another good role like this in a film again. Like, you look at everything that she's like, people like the break.

I know there are people who like the breakup, which is the movie she does also in 2006 with Vince Vaughn. and I saw it once. It's a Peyton Reed movie, so I'm willing to give people the benefit of the doubt. I saw it once, I really don't care for Vince Vaughn, so I have an impediment. But, like, there are people who like the breakup, and I will grant that to them.

And Marley and Me was a hit, but it's, Marley and me is about the dog. And if it's not about the dog, it's about the dog, I know one will say, right? Yeah, there's a whole slew of Jennifer Aniston movies where she just plays the girlfriend. In that movie, she just plays the owner. Right, right.

And then it's just like a lot of bad comedies, just a lot of bad comedies. He's just not that into you, where she's one of like a dozen people in a bad comedy. The Bounty Hunter, part of the, she gets to be part of the, um, Gerard Butler makes terrible romantic comedies, cinematic universe. Um, the Switch with Jason Bateman. Um, just go with it with, uh, with Adam Sandler. She really likes, she really likes, she really, really likes Adam Sandler. That's the one, for as much as I don't like any of the movies that they're in together, I like how, um, fond of him she seems to be. That's nice. She, uh, she mentioned

him in her sag speech for, uh, uh, that was, uh, the morning show. Yes. Yeah. Oh, Adam Sandler, your performance is extraordinary and your magic is real, buddy. I love you. It was very endearing. Does she like, I love you, man, or I love you, buddy, something like that. And I was like, they're friends and I like that. Yeah, exactly. um hate all the movies that they're in together um she's in multiple horrible bosses she's in multiple horrible bosses i know some people also kind of liked we're the millers that i've maybe never seen all the way through um uh we've talked about cake on this uh on this podcast before oh boy did we talk about cake she's in mother's day which is not a good movie but like also you should watch

mother's day like there there are reasons to watch mother's day it's insane um she's He's obviously the pageant mom in Dumplin. We all remember how much we love Dumplin. We love Dumplin. Dumplin. Did you see the yellow birds? I never did. I don't think I know what the yellowbirds is.

I think that was a Sundance. It was a Sundance movie in 2017 that I remember. It's her and Alden-Earon Reich is in it, and Ty Sheridan and Tony Collette. Oh, this is the military movie. Yes. Yes. No, I did not see that. Nor did I. So, yeah. And now

she's like back on TV with the morning show, which is crazy bananas, but I love it. So I'm happy that she's made it back to there. That is a television show where Reese Witherspoon knits her a sweater of conflict,

and the two of them have conflict together, and it's very good. Yeah. I hesitate to say Jennifer Aniston's movie career bums me out because I don't want to fall into that trap of feeling sorry for Jennifer Aniston because that's, you know, that's been done. But... Well, and it also still feels like it's still very much in play. Like, she could come out with another performance like this movie very conceivably soon, you know? Like, it doesn't feel like... It's over for her. She also seems to just enjoy making movies with, like, comedy bros, not to, like, put too fine of a point on it, but, like, she clearly is very fond of Sandler. She's made a bunch of movies with Jason Sudecas and Jason Bateman. She's really, actually, really good in Wanderlust, which is her and Paul Rudd back together again, since the object of my affection. She's good. It's, like, it's a very modest movie. Like, there's, you know, there's a ceiling on it. it that it doesn't ever really um but it's a david wayne movie you know what i mean like those movies are really funny and um it's her and rudd and this they're on a commune and it's you know

just and threw is in it i think if that's not where they met like they were maybe already dating by that point but um malin acriman's in that movie katherine han is so funny in that movie um it's a really great cast so oh right jordan peel is in that movie ellen alda Lauren Ambrose. It's an interesting movie. Anyway, she seems to enjoy those kinds of movies, and who am I to say, like, she should be doing high-end, you know, dramaties, or, you know.

Well, you can tell us she probably wants to do things and do work that will have a good positive experience for her. Yeah. She's made her money. You know what I mean? She's made her money, and she's been a giant star, and now she, if she wants to just do stuff that, like,

is fun for her. Good for fucking her. Like, absolutely. Absolutely. She's wonderful in this. Francis McDorman's the one who gets the independent spirit. Not only nomination, but award, which is like, good for her, because I love Francis McDormand in this movie. And this is a great performance,

and she's so funny. She's so funny. She's incredibly funny in this movie. And in a way that still kind of helps to build the Francis McDormand persona that I feel like doesn't really start getting built until the 2000s. Because even in Fargo, like she plays such a like sweet, lovely person in Fargo.

But like more and more she starts taking these roles that are hard-boiled. There's a lot of... Well, I was just on the For the Girls podcast talking about Francis and we were talking about the grouch phase of Francis McDormon. It's a good point. And, like, it's this and all of Kidridge, right, that kick it off? Yes.

Well, also, though, she was in that play that she won the Tony Award for, where she stopped the show. The David Lindsay Bear play? Yes. Yeah, her Tony Award in her jean jacket. Her Tony Award her jean jacket, right. The finest award show outfit ever. And so that's the thing. It was a combination of the roles in these productions, but also when she would win awards for those roles, she would show.

she would show up again very in a in a particular mood set and it was I remember thinking when I think I tweeted this at the time although I can't dig that up but when she won the Golden Globe I want to say for Olive Kittridge and her speech was very much like people don't read books anymore you should read a book it was great I was just like Francis I love it but like it's not all of her also like Her North Country character was very stoic. Do you know what I mean? Right. But, like, that isn't all of her. These hardened, um, salt of the earth types. Yeah.

But she can play very funny in a lot of those Cohen's movies and burn after reading and then, uh, Hail Caesar and whatever. I don't think she even says anything in Hail Caesar. She's just like, her physical presence is funny. She steals that scene, though. She's so, she's so amazing. Um, yeah, it's, but you're right that, like, she really has kind of come to be defined by Olive Kidridge,

three billboards, you know, jean jacket award wearing Francis. Well, and one of the things I brought up with the For the Girls guys is, for Francis McDormand like to like have her own niche being an actress of a certain age, like, you know,

as much as we lament the roles for actresses once they, reach a certain point in their careers, like, Francis kind of has defied that in a really interesting way, even if it feels like she has this, like, certain typecast now. Yeah. Like, there's still a lot of variety within the actual performances, but, like, you know, other than Transformers, like, Francis isn't stuck playing bureaucrats or lawyers, you know, in a way that a lot of her peers, unfortunately, have been. Yeah. I think that's a really good point. But like it is just, it's important to remember, even in her like Oscar acceptance speech, the, the three billboards Oscar acceptance speech where everybody remembers Inclusion Rider and they should because it was a great moment. But like, that wasn't like Stern Francis. That was, she was very kind of like hyped in that speech. Remember she was just sort of, she was very excited and she was very. She's obviously not completely over awards. Like she was so joy.

giving Olivia Coleman her Oscar. Yes, yeah, totally. So she's, I do think she makes a conscious choice to steer into that persona sometimes. That sort of, you know, the grouch persona, which I think works for her. And like, you know, got to have an angle. And, but it's just, like, it's important to remember that, like, she has the range. She definitely, you know, she, like, something like almost famous is nothing like three billboards is nothing like, like we said,

you know, the one scene in Hail Caesar. Like, she's, she definitely has the range. And in Friends with Money, she's sort of losing her marbles in a very grouchy way. She becomes very much the malcontent in social settings and at restaurants

and at Old Navy and all of this. Screaming at people outside of her car window. Right, right. But it's, like, but she like can nail a really funny line of dialogue. that just like also like she and Aniston can rock a pair of bucket hats as well as any Patricia Clarkson and I know so like that's also really good um yeah I want to go to a farmer's market with Fran oh god absolutely absolutely and have her throw unsubtle shade at the children of her friends that she uh that she runs into yes not even shade that was like full dust it was yes there's also the scene when after the dinner at the beginning when they're all sort of like driving home with their partners and talking about each other the way she says to Simon McBurney who's her husband about Catherine Keener did you know she's never seen her husband's asshole it's just a very funny one of the funniest lines of the movie but like that's pure hall of center too that is pure just like you know we're going to be you know chatting about the people who are not in this scene and it's going to be very very

disarming in a way that's very funny. There's some great dialogue. And that brings us to Simon McBurney, who I know you wanted to talk about, but like I kind of love, it feels like the movie is too, if there's a slight off balance, is like the movie is way more interested in Simon McBurney than it is any of the other men. And it's because like none of them are interesting, really. Right. Or interesting beyond the way the movie needs them to be.

yes um in that it's like okay well why are we spending so much time with him but like all of his stuff is gold he yeah gets this like bromance that develops with tie burrell yeah that you cannot tell the whole time if it's flirtatious or not or and you don't know whether simon mcburny's character what's his character's name in this i mean i i should shorthand it at some point it's aaron Aaron, you don't know if he knows whether they're flirting or not. Like, he seems to be something of a mystery to himself a little bit. There, we never find out for sure. We certainly never, like, find out that he has any kind of homosexual, is acting in any,

on any possible homosexual feelings, right? But everything is, like, plausible deniability. But he absolutely, undoubtedly, has incredible chemistry with Ty Borell. And also, that scene where he's at the sweater sale, trying on sweaters with the guy who's clearly flirting with him and he doesn't realize it until late in the game, is incredibly, like, it's sexy. Like, I'm just like, why am I finding Simon McBurney sexy? And, like, it's a good job on the film's part for doing that. But it's like, I never really thought of that before. I mean, that scene is written so well, too, because when the guy, like, actually puts it out there, because you can never.

really tell, like you mentioned, how much Simon McBurney realizes he's being flirted with until it's overt. Right. His response isn't, I'm not gay. His response is I'm married. I'm married. Right. Right. And sort of holds up his ring as his sort of like defense. It's so smart because conceivably, right, even if it wasn't a legal marriage he could at this point, like he's, he's not denying any type of, I don't know. Regardless of what it is for the character, I think for the movie, it's really smart writing. Well, and here's the other. thing is whenever the women are in their little groups of two or three talking about the other ones, they're never wrong, ultimately. They know that Christine's in a bad marriage, and that

ends up panning out. They know that, like, Olivia is aimless and wayward, and that's obvious, you know, on its face. When they talk about, like, Jane's not washing her hair and what's going on, like, clearly something's up with Jane. So, like, their observations about each other are on point. They know each other very well. So when they, especially Christine, Catherine Keener's character, is constantly being like, Aaron's so gay. And like, you kind of are like, well, they've been right about everything else. So, but you never, it's left completely open-ended. But it's also at a very kind of lovely place where like Jane, for as much as she's like, she's kind of mean to him.

She's especially mean to him at the beginning. She, like, calls him pathetic, right, in that first scene. In a way that's, like, not even, like, they're not fighting. She's just like, oh, God, you're pathetic. She really appreciates him. She really appreciates what they have. You don't...

They're so clearly in love, even if he is gay or bisexual or something. They are easily the couple that has the most affection for each other. And you get these small moments where you feel like, it's not like she does know it. It's not like she doesn't, you know, see these little, you know, the way he, you know, behaves or befriends other men or whatever. And there's never a... I mean, what's the thing about the scene where she brings up? Do you know she's never seen her husband's asshole? She's also telling us the audience. She's definitely seen her husband's assail. Right, right. She may be played with her husband's asshole. But like, there's never a confrontation

about it in the film. The women never confront her about it. She never confronts Aaron about it. there's never a thing. But you can tell that like... She's probably fine with whatever. Exactly. She is happy with him. She's maybe she's unhappy with other things. I think she's, you know, she's frustrated with the fact that like she's at middle age and certain

avenues of her life are no longer available to her. She's sort of like she communicates that at one point. But like there are there are moments where she sort of, you know, she looks at him and you're just like, oh, yeah. really loves him, and she really likes their marriage, I think. That's one of the things that I love about this character,

and the type of thing I love in a Nicole Hollif Center movie is that her character's just, like, going through a time. It's not any one thing. It's not any one grand problem that she can do something specific

to solve or feel better about. It's just, it's an amalgamation of a lot of things that are just making her have a shitty time right now. Yeah. And I think that's more real. And the movie does it in these ways that adds a lot of layers and textures to, like, where she's at without ever kind of reducing it to. This is what her problem is.

This is like the thing that she can do to solve it, you know? Yeah. Also, before we get off of the Francis subject entirely, how excited are we for the tragedy of Macbeth coming, hopefully? this year. Oh, my God. I just, I, I, I, that could be something that I'm like, I don't even want to see the trailer. Right. Because the idea of Francis playing Lady M. It's like, it could be one of a million things. She could pull anything out with how she's going to do that. And it's going to be correct. And I just want to experience it whole. Well, and the fact that it's opposite Denzel Washington. And like, I'm really excited to see what the two of them, what their chemistry is like

together and like how they you know bounce off of each other and and that it's you know and what is a Cohen like this isn't the Cohen brothers this is just Joel Cohen who's just Joel wrote and directed but like what it's in black and white it's it's probably going to be a time yeah I'm very excited for it um talk to me about and at this point also before we move on from Fran uh we should say she could be a four time Oscar winner by now not even just three Wait, why four? She's an accredited producer on Nomad Land. Oh, I didn't know that.

So she could also win for Best Picture on top of Best Act. Oh, very interesting. Oh, that's exciting. All right, talk to me about Joan Cusack in this movie. I love Joan Cusack in this movie. I love Joan Cusack in this movie. I love that it is Joan Cusack in this role, too, because usually we see Joan Cusack either being the one who's a mess or the one who's the quirky one

or the one who's the bull, who's just, like, charging through. How odd to see Joan Cusack as the most together character in a film? Exactly. And, like, this feels like the type of character that would be completely killed by either studio notes. Yeah. Or, like, you know, all the script writing rules that it's like this character would, they, the rules tell you that it doesn't work. But it's actually really interesting in the hands of Nicole Hollis Center, where she is, is the most together one, but, like, the way that that manifests is like this unself-aware guilt,

where it's like she has the best life, the most solid foundation, so she has to solve everyone's problems to assuage her guilt for having a good life, right? Yeah. But also, it's not, like, it's not some harrowing emotional state that it's like. It's just this, like, low temperature. having to take care of everyone else. There's the one moment where she kind of boils over a little bit when Olivia is like,

why do they do charity dinners like this? Why do they spend so much money on a charity dinner instead of just donating the money directly to whatever? And she's just like, because that's how it's done. You do a big dinner and you charge $10,000 for a table and we all pay it and that's just how it goes. and she's frustrated with being sort of being made to feel guilty by implication by Jennifer Aniston.

And she plays that really well, where it's like she's not, again, she doesn't really like tip over into like, oh, she really is a monster or whatever. It's just like, no, she's just frustrated by the implications of her being. The movie very smartly not only writes Olivia as the poorest of the four of them, but, like, Cusack is significantly wealthier than Keener or McDormand, and that's an interesting angle in this as well. So, like, she's not only, like, the wealthy one compared to Olivia, she's the wealthy one compared to all of them, and I think that's a moment where it kind of, you know, you see

that a little bit bubble over, but in a really kind of controlled way, which I like. She's great. It's interesting that, like, so she gets, she has. two Oscar nominations for comedies, which is like a really kind of a rare thing for an actress, which is great. And one of them was a surprise, because Working Girl, correct me if I'm wrong, was something of a surprise nomination. Right.

Well, because the supporting actress contender in that film is Sigourney Weaver. And so Cusack was kind of like, oh, we like this movie so much that we're going to nominate multiple supporting actors from this movie. And, yeah, let me pair through and see what else. I mean, Joan Cusack's incredible in that movie. Most days of the week, I would probably vote for her to win out of that lineup. I mean, her hair alone in that movie is absolutely incredible. Well, see, okay, so she had won the Boston Society of Film Critics

Supporting Actress Prize that year for Working Girl, Married to the Mom. and a movie called Stars and Bars, all from 1988, which was a Daniel Day Lewis movie, another comedy about a seemingly like an art purchase. You know what I mean? It's like a comedy set in the art world. And it's Daniel Day Lewis and Joan Cusack and Harry Dean Stanton's in it whenever. I've never seen it. But, in fact, I've never heard of it until just this moment. So I'm flying quite blind.

But so she was, she won Boston Society of Film Critics for those three movies together. So probably a lot of the momentum for the Working Girl nomination is, what a great year for Joan Kuzak. She's really delivering. And good for her, because she does. Like, she's, she shows up and she brings it. She gets the nomination. for In-N-Out in 1997, which she's very funny. Is Everybody Gay, the question we're all asking.

She's also in a film that's never going to get nominated. Is everybody gay? Am I in the Twilight Zone? She's never going to get nominated for something like Adam's Family Values, even though she is a tour de force in that film. Like, I have no qualms about, like, say that. It's a legendary performance. It is top to bottom.

bottom. Fantastic. She makes that movie, and there's a lot of great stuff in that movie. Like, Adam's Family Values Rules, and she's the best part of it. The part where she has them all tied or strapped to electric chairs, right? And is forcing them to watch slides of her. It's like a very much a send-up of the over-explaining villain scene, and she's doing it with like a slide projector of just like, this is why. And she's... Malibu Barby. Malibu Barbie. Like, the way she says that is so funny. Oh, God.

Can't say enough. Can't say enough great things about John Cusack. Is that an Alan Rudolph script or Paul Rudnick script? I think it's Paul Redneck, right? Hold on a second. I am like, I would put money on the fact that it is a Paul Redneck script. And it is. Yes.

That's just one of those performances, though, where people are like, why wasn't she nominated for this. It was Adam's Family Values had other nominations so they could have and it's like guys they're not that cool. They're not. Especially in the 90s. They'll never be that cool. No. Even though her other nominations feel like cool nominations, like they're not that cool. No. You're absolutely right. Um, which is too bad. And it is too bad. Yeah. Cast Joan Cusack and more films also. This is the other thing I'm going to yell out there. into the universe. She's obviously been very, very well served by the Toy Story movies. She is the voice of Jesse. She is fantastic, particularly in Toy Story 2, where Jesse is a huge part of that

story. She's kind of the MVP of that film, of that voice cast. She was on Shameless for a while. Shameless is a show that I liked for quite a bit, and while she was on it, I really liked it, but she was always my least favorite character because they really just sort of, like, they did not treat that character well. They sort of dumped a lot of kind of nonsensical

plot twists and whatever onto her. She was the neighbor of the family. My concept is she is the analog to Elizabeth Perkins on weeds in Shameless. Oh, no. Elizabeth Perkins got to have a lot more fun.

Got to, there was a lot more I think at least. But there's a whole lot of character stuff. Sure. That is just questionable. Yeah, but she gets a bunch of Emmy nominations for it. So I guess, you know, good for her there.

She was most recently on the second season of Homecoming, the Amazon half-hour drama, A Revolution in Television, the Half-Hour Drama. More of it, please. There's like a billion people in that season of Homecoming that no one watched. I really liked it, I will say. I really liked the second season of Homecoming. And she plays a kind of government bigwig who is up to very bad military industrial complex stuff.

She's a general. She's a defense department person who ends up being a big bad in it. And she's fantastic. We want Joan Kusack in things where she could be funny. But I do feel like Joan Kusack has like a terrifying. crime syndicate performance and not like cast her as a mafioso

but like I think she has like a Jackie Weaver Animal Kingdom Oh yes That's a fantastic comparison I love that I love that for her I want to see that for Joan

All right Catherine Keener is the one we haven't talked about Who we've saved for last Probably for a reason because she has the least interesting character She is but she's also she's the Nicole Holofsenter lifer, right? Where like she's the MVP

of Hollifsiner's first four films. Well, she's in everything but the land of steady habits, or is she also in the land of steady habits? If she's in the land of steady habits, it's a really small role. Yeah, I don't think she is. Because I don't remember it. But like, she's walking and talking is a like indie breakthrough. She had also been in

living in oblivion. she was in a lot of sort of indie movies of that mid-90s era before being John Malcovic sort of like thrusts her into the mainstream right she could see Oscar nomination for that but like walking and talking is very much it's Catherine Keener it's Anne Heish it is their relationship in that movie defines that movie and they're both fricking phenomenal and I will it's one of those things I always I already loved Anne Heish for you know other things but Like, I will always love the both of them so much for that movie. They're really good.

And then she's pretty much the focal point character in Lovely and Amazing, even though that is an ensemble. But, like, among Brenda Blethen and Emily Mortimer and her, she's the one who sort of is the main focus of Lovely and Amazing. She blends into the ensemble here, like you said, she's the least interesting of the four. She's a lead again in Please Give. She's amazing in that. Everyone is amazing and please give. Yeah. And then she's the ex-wife in enough said who's like really crucial to that film's conceit.

And she's just, it's a great director-star partnership that I feel like doesn't get talked about enough. I feel like I understand why we talk about like Corsese DiCaprio a lot, but just like more talk about Hall of Center Keener, please. Like that's the one I want to talk about. It's such a good pairing. I don't know. Like, you're right. She's, Christine's the least interesting. She's in this, like, very obviously bad marriage that doesn't really have a ton of nuance

to it. Like, from that very first scene, you're just like, Jason Isaacs is a shit. Like, God, he's an asshole. And he proves that correctly as we go along. But she's also really fantastic anytime she's with any of the other women in a scene. We're like, her and McDormand sort of just, like, talking is great.

Her and Aniston, great. Her and Qzac, fantastic. and I think she knows the rhythms of Hall of Center's work so well by now that she really like she you know in Top Chef where they do restaurant wars and it's like someone's going to be front of the house and a couple other people will be cooking their dish and then one of them their job is expediting right and it's like I think that's Catherine Keener's function in she's the expediter she's the expediter she like she knows what needs to be done and what these rhythms are this dialogue is whatever

and like all of her scenes really work because of that skill, I think. And it's also interesting because she does play, I mean, I don't think we, when we talk about Keener Hall of Center, we don't also really talk about how each of the character she's played in those movies are pretty different. Yeah. Especially like enough said where you would expect her to be the Julia Louis-Dreyfus character, but she's ultimately the shallow, um, Is she a poet?

Yeah, that's right, because I remember I was talking about it on an enough set episode. The fact that Catherine Keener shows up in a Nicole Hollaf Center movie and says, I'm a poet, and it's a punchline. Right. Yes. It's so wonderful. Yeah. She's also...

This character, like, I... It's interesting because Catherine Keener's also coming off of an Oscar nomination. Her second one, right? Yeah. Her second one for Capote. Yeah. That was an interesting Oscar nomination. I remember thinking at the time that, like, it's not, she's not in that movie much.

She's in maybe like three or four sort of like scenes with Truman. And she's sort of the Jiminy Cricket, right? She's a little bit of like his conscience on his shoulder. And I remember thinking at the time, oh, there were other more sort of robust performances. And I like Catherine Keener, but like maybe not a nomination. But you watch that movie again, and you're just like, oh, but she's perfect. And she's crucial to the way that the audience sees Truman in that movie. And just as a screen presence, too.

And I mean, the way that she crafts her performance, that it changes the temperature in the room when she shows up, it brings out something to Philip Seymour Hoffman's performance that isn't there when she, She's not there because they've defined that relationship so well. That's a really interesting screen chemistry between the two of them. Yeah. Yeah, I love that performance. I love that movie. You know what movie she's also in that I have not seen?

She is part of the ensemble in The Gun and Betty Lee's Handbag. Really, I am really, really talking myself into needing to see this movie. Have we talked on air or only off air? Movies that exist only as titles. that the fact that after the Oscars and when I have some time to do a movie project, I want to do, I want to watch all the movies that exist only as titles and then do like a letterboxed ranking of them or something. But like the cast of that movie, we talked about Penelope Ann Miller last week when we talked about Carlito's way. But like Julianne Moore, Alfred Woodard, Kathy Moriarty, Catherine Keener, Meatloaf, an uncredited Stanley Tucci. Zander Berkeley's in that movie. Like, it's, that's a cast man like that's a real cast what's happening i have no idea i know there's a gun in betty lou's handbag that's about all i know but i want i'm i'm excited it's going to be some monologue in the movie that it's going to be like schrodinger's cat or something right right it's like it's the uh

there is no betty lou there is no gun there is no handbag we find out it was all a state of mind yeah keener's career uh career arc is really interesting I feel like she's often, I feel like we as a culture should be utilizing her more. I know I say that about a lot of actresses we talk about, but like, she's always so good, and she doesn't always get big roles. You know what I loved her in recently? We've talked about voice roles a bunch of this thing. She's so good in The Incredibles, too.

Yes. So good. Like, more so that, like, I think, like, above and beyond what even that role required. I was just like, it's, she's, I don't know, bringing a lot to a voice performance, a lot of, like, she doesn't, she doesn't have a cartoon voice, right? She's really funny. She has a very, like, she's still talking, like, she's in Nicole Hollis in her movie, sort of. But, like, oh, she's so incredibly interesting, and she and Holly Hunter's character have this, like, really odd chemistry together. It's really amazing.

Yeah, I was going to say, it's also just, like, there's a certain oddness to the fact that she is a screen partner with Holly Hunter and an animated super. her hero movie. Yeah. She was also in that Amazon dromedy forever, the one where Fred Armisen and Maya Rudolph are in some sort of

afterlife scenario. I didn't watch that. It's pretty good, and she shows up like a couple episodes into it, maybe like two or three episodes into it, and kind of complicates their relationship

in these really kind of interesting ways, and she's not necessarily everything that she seems to be at first and she's, it's a good role for her. It, I would recommend it. And then also, speaking of television, she was on the Oscar Isaac, David Simon, HBO miniseries, show me a hero.

Again, which I didn't watch, and that I feel like I should catch up too. You should. Oscar Isaac's fantastic. Dominique Fishback from Judas and the Black Messiah is in it. But Catherine Keener plays this woman who is very, she lives in Yonkers and she's very suspicious of these sort of black people in her neighborhood and kind of like that. And she's sort of like a neighborhood busybody. But her arc is really interesting throughout the course of that miniseries. And it's just a really well done. I mean, it's David Simon. Obviously,

he does like really, really fantastic stuff. earned the praise that it got and was kind of bummed that it didn't end up doing anything Emmy-wise. It was one of those, like, casualties of the calendar where it was an August miniseries, which is, like, you've just missed the cutoff for the Emmys, and, like, the next Emmys isn't happening for quite a while. So, like, it's the equivalent of, like, a February movie for Oscars. It's just, like, you got a long way to go, friend. But she's fantastic in that. The true justice for Catherine Keener moment, though, was Captain Phillips, where I don't even think you see her complete face. No, it's the...

Like, I think she is barely in frame, but you know it's Catherine Keener. In an era where, much as I love, Dad Hank's era, like the Dad Tom Hanks era of things, or, like, professional competence, Tom Hanks. The number of fantastic actresses who exist only on the other end of a phone line from him, where it's like Keener in Captain Phillips, Laura Linney in Sully, Amy Ryan in Bridge of Spies, and who is it that I just watched Greyhound, Elizabeth Shue, who at least gets a flashback scene where she's shopping for Christmas presents, but like doesn't exist in the main timeline of that movie. And it's like, I want the four of those women to have, like, a Birds of Prey, fantabulous emancipation of Harley Quinn kind of movie together, where they just sort of like decide to come into their own all together and talk about their hanksy husbands. I think probably the Harley Quinn, like the star, the one that like rules the entire gang of heroes, for, like, great phone acting,

but they were truly the lead of their movie would probably be Ruth Naga and Loving. Oh. Excellent phone acting. She could be, like, the Charlie and Charlie's Angels of them, where she's, like, giving them, ironically, orders on the phone. Orders through the phone. Yeah, yeah, I like that.

I like that. The one Keener thing we should talk about, a recent Keener performance, where she was amazing and, like, got overshadowed in the awards push of it, and rightly so, considering the other people who were getting praise. But, like, she's so great and get out. Yeah, you loved her in that movie.

She didn't really register for me with that movie. It's such a— Everyone's amazing in that movie. I love really brief performances that become indelible to me, and that obviously the sunken place scene, that very first sunken place scene, works for a billion different reasons. Kaluya's expression on his face, the way that Jordan Peel directs it, but I think she's so crucial to that. I think the way her presence in that, and her authority, the way that she can command a surprising amount of authority in a very, like, brief amount of time

is so crucial to the way that scene works. Well, in a certain level of sinisterness, that's kind of the surprise in what she's offering because it weirdly comes very natural to her, even though it's not maybe a note we've seen from her. But she doesn't play these like stereotypical what you would think of like as Karen notes, you know what I mean now? Where it's like she's not over the top and she's not she doesn't present

as problematic in that movie. And then all of a sudden it just like it really turns and I just think she's incredibly crucial. But also it could have very easily been like witchy for lack of a better word. And I don't think she does those type of horror cliches either.

Right, right. Exactly. Exactly. I love her. It's a great cast. It's a really fantastic cast. Did you want to see anything else about any of the other actors in the film? We talked about Simon McBurney, obviously, but like Jason Isaacs, Scott Conn, Greg German, Ty Borell. It's a good cast. This is a great movie.

The thing about Nicole Hall of Center movies in regards to Oscar is like it always feels like she's just on the outside in regards to original screenplay. like she's always in like people's long list predictions and such that's what I mean she's a spirit award nominee for all of these movies but like it's never quite beyond that let me let me want to look up now and see if she got any WGA nominations ever besides can you ever forgive me I don't think so maybe lovely and amazing no please give she got a best original screenplay nomination for please

Give. Hell yeah. It's the best one. Which is great. Who did she lose to? That's 08. She lost two Inception. That's very funny. That's an interesting set of nominees. Inception, Black Swan, the fighter, the kids are all right, which were all Oscar nominees for Best Picture. And please give is the

fifth nominee. That's the other thing, too, is like she gets overshadowed by slightly similar movies. So it's like if she was overshadowed by probably the kids are all right in that. year for like a certain type and certain temperature of a movie yeah the year we're talking about definitely overshadowed by little miss sunshine which definitely took all of the sundance oxygen absolutely out of the room absolutely yeah i think that's definitely true and you even look at because again we talked about how francis mcdormand wins the the um independent spirit award

for best supporting actress in that year and that year um interestingly little miss sunshine wins, best feature, and best director, and best supporting male for Alan Arkin, which was a precursor for his Oscar win. But don't nominate Abigail Breslin in supporting actress. Don't nominate anybody, actually, from Little Miss Sunshine in supporting actress. And so McDormand ends up beating out, you know, actresses from like a lot of smaller movies. It's Melanie Diaz in A Guide to Recognizing Your Saints, which was the Shia LeBuff Channing Tatum film, sort of like... Also a Sundance movie. Also a Sundance movie.

Marsha Gay-Harden in that movie American Gun that I never saw, that always seemed a little gimmicky to me. Also a movie that exists only as a title. Right. Mary Beth Hurt in that Karen Moncrief movie, The Dead Girl, which I've been meaning to watch forever, but there's like no urgency to see it at this point. So it's always sort of lingering in the bottom third of whatever list that I have. of movies to see but like the cast of that movie is amazing where it's uh tony colette brittney murphy may she rest uh rose burn marcia gay harden mary bethurt carry washington piper lorry mary steenbergen like just an insane cast um and then amber tamblin was nominated for that movie stephanie daly

her and uh tilda swinton where amber tamblin plays a girl who um has a baby in a bathroom stall and leaves it there, and there's a whole criminal, whatever, trial for it, that I, again, I only know of it because it was an Independent Spirit Award nominee. But McDormand is the biggest star in that category, and probably representing the highest profile film, even though Friends with Money was a pretty modest indie release, but, like, definitely was a bigger release.

And I'm not sure if this is still at the time where it's, like you buy a membership to film independent and you can vote on the Spirit Awards and that's why all of the Oscar winners are the Indy Spirit Award winners now. Yes. You have, uh, anybody can vote for it. Yes. But again, what I love about the Spirit Awards is like, at least at the nomination stage, it will give you like a good number of movies that you're just like, oh, I should check that

out because I've never heard of it before. Like, the fact that they can, and because they air so late in the season, they're like the last thing to air before the Oscars. It's always a nice little breadth of fresh air. I'm just like, oh, right, there were other movies this year. That's fantastic. Well, and, like, their nominations are earlier in the season, too. So it really can give a movie, like, a boost. Like, the year we're talking about now, like, it definitely was instrumental in getting Ryan Gosling the Half Nelson nomination, because Half Nelson does really well.

to the point where, like, Sharika Epps wins a female lead, but, like, there were a lot of people really pushing her to get an Oscar nomination, too. Yes. Although, in supporting, which I love that, like, I love that the spirits were just like, no, we're going to give you an award and we're going to put you in lead because you are the lead of that movie. And, yeah, that was great. Holoff Center gets nominated for screenplay at that spirits and loses to Jason

Reitman for thank you for smoking, which it's interesting to think of in the context of Jason Reitman, because, then he was this sort of young upstart thank you for smoking was seen as this like very edgy indie movie very like tone heavy Aaron Eckhart

lead performance who Aaron Eckhart I think gets nominated for a Golden Globe that year for thank you for smoking and now we sort of think of Jason Reitman as this just like pampered establishment making his daddy's Ghostbusters movie like yada yada yada

it's just interesting to think back to like what his pre maybe his pre men, women, and children persona. I just want to shout out, before we move into wrapping things up. Short King, Scott Conn, he talked about

at the beginning. His handful of hymbo performances in the early 2000s were crucial, I'll say, to He's a really underrated Oceans performer.

He's so funny. Him and Casey Affleck, for as much as we don't want to talk about Casey Affleck, are incredibly funny together in Oceans 11 doing comic relief. They're just really great stuff, especially in that first one. Really good. But he's just like, he's in a whole bunch of movies where it's just like, show a little personality, but mostly, like, definitely take your shirt off. Like, absolutely.

Where it's like Varsity Blues and American Outlaws, and he was in that movie, Sunny, the James Franco directed movie, Sunny. He was in a movie called Into the Blue, where it's literally like him and Paul Walker diving for treasure in the Bahamas. And it's just like, and Jessica Alba. And it's just like, just all of you take your shirts off. Like, that's what this movie is doing. It's just like, everybody to take your shirts off. you see his butt in varsity blues he has a tattoo of a like a longhorn cattle or whatever on his butt for the character of it all because it's very texas um unseemly it's a very good butt i know i talk

about butts a lot on this podcast i probably should do it less but like we are a tina belcher podcast have a photographic butt memory we love the butts scott con has a great one all right anyway um jason isax always a great bad guy Like, just always a great bad guy. Harry Potter, the O-A, and I almost said the O-C. What if Jason Isaacs was the bad guy on the O-C? I'd believe it. One of the things I did think was interesting about that Sundance movie Mass was like, wow, we're supposed to side with Jason Isaacs for some of this?

That's interesting. Yeah. It's not common. I'm not used to being in that position at all. But I think he makes it work Because there are times when you're not supposed to side with that character Like that... Right, right.

We've talked about it. I like that. All right. I didn't like that. I know. Wait, I want to go through my notes and see if there's anything else that I missed. The bucket hats, obviously, move over Patty Clarkson. You have some competition.

We should mention Francis McDormon plays a fashion designer in this movie. Yeah. I like that. It's a good note on her. I love the scene where she takes them to her little, whatever, not showroom, but where she's got all her clothes, to try on stuff for this benefit that they're going to. And I just think it's a really lovely scene for their friendship, because it's after so much sort of turmoil has happened with, you know, McDormid has broken her nose, and Aniston and

Cusack have had this fight, and all this sort of stuff, and, but they fall back into these really sort of easy rhythms of their friendship that really, again, sells for me that like, oh yeah, these women are you know, long-time friends and I totally buy it. Oh, the scene where Joan Kuzak is sort of talking up Olivia to Scott Kahn

when they're doing their training session. And she's sort of talking about all the wonderful things about her and how she straight and whatever. And Scott Khan being the like, you know, pig-ish character he is, just says, how are our tits? And like, with without missing a beat, Kuzek just goes up in a way that, like, really made me laugh.

It's just a really great delivery, just a really great, like, snappy, boom, boom. Yeah, I really liked it. I really liked this movie. Anything else from you? No. How about this? Because I don't think we did this in our enough said episode. Yeah.

How, what could we do a quick ranking of Halif Center movies? Oh, I love this. Yes, we can. All right, let me go back to, so the six movies are walking and talking, lovely and amazing, friends with money, please give enough set. So Land of Steady Habits is number six. Easy number six for me. Oh, easy number six. My number five is probably, oh, this is hard.

I mean, so. It's difficult. Lovely and Amazing is the movie that I've, it's been the longest since I've seen it. I only saw it the once, and it was back in 2000. one. So I would probably rank that as my fifth only because I think about it the least, even though I really, really love it. And it's really good. I would also put that in my fifth. I think Friends with Money is probably my number four. And, you know, I've talked about how much I really like this movie. So, like, that's, you know, a testament to Hall of Sinners movies

in general. Here's where it gets tough. This top three, it's like, what, oh, what I value? What do I love? I think I would probably put, please give it three, enough set it to walking and talking at one. And maybe that's my nostalgia talking, because walking and talking was so new. It's a great movie. But like, it's a really great movie. And like, I mean, those top three are just like, it's great on great on great. And, but I think that's where I end up. What about you? I would definitely say, land of steady habits lovely and amazing

they're lovely and amazing is still really good I think there's some stuff that hasn't aged as well in that movie and I think there's a few things that just don't work um

my number four would see this is four and like three are more difficult for me than like one and two yeah

I would say four is enough said then friends with money at number three, number two is walking and talking and number one is please give. I mean, they're all really right. Wait, so we could do please give in the future, so maybe we won't talk about it too much.

But it's really smartly done. It's like a lot of the stuff that she sort of like starts to talk about in terms of like money and class and privilege and friends with money really pays off really, really well and please give. and Rebecca Hall, great, Amanda Pete, great, Sarah Steele, great. It's just, again, phenomenal cast. Everyone is great in that movie.

And that's a New York movie. She sort of does her, she has her L.A. movies and her New York movies also, right? And Friends with Money is an L.A. movie, and Please Give is definitely a New York movie. And I really love that about it. I think that's one of the things that I don't like about LATIS Steady Habits is that it's neither. It's whatever, Connecticut or something. who needs it

we'll probably continue to be talking about Nicole Hollif Center this year because as we must remember she is a co-screenwriter on the last duel oh my god she wrote those haircuts into the last duel I can feel it

all right oh boy should we move on to the IMDB game what the IMDB game is yeah every week we end our episodes with the IMDB game where we challenge each other with an actor or actress to try and guess the top four titles that IMDB says they are most known for. If any of those titles are television or voiceover work,

we mention that up front. After two wrong guesses, we get the remaining titles release here's a clue. If that's not enough, it just becomes a free-for-all of hints. That's the IMDB game. All right. Fantastic. Joe, would you like to give her guess first? I'll give first. All right.

Please give your... Good one. Obviously, I was going to pick somebody for... from the Nicole Hall of Center stable of performers. I picked an actress from a movie that now that we've mentioned it a couple of times, I do want to see again and, you know, re-experience it, from lovely and amazing, not Catherine Keener, not Brenda Blethen, but Emily Mortimer, I'm going to give you.

Emily Mortimer, who, okay, so she definitely had a lot of buzz and got some critics mentions. Yes. for that movie. So I am actually tempted to guess this for her, but is there any TV? Because I think she's done TV. She's definitely done TV. There is no TV on her known for, even though, yeah, the newsroom could have showed up there, but it did not.

Okay. I've also recently started watching high maintenance, and I'm like, Emily Mortimer is going to show up at any minute. Beyond the ready. She could show up at any moment. Okay, Emily Mortimer, uh, yeah, I'll say it, lovely and amazing. Incorrect. Strike one. Ah, shit. Um, there's got to be a big one that she's in.

Because she does work with a lot of major filmmakers, but sometimes they're small roles. Or she, she doesn't really do blockbusters. The only blockbuster I can think of that she's in. is Mary Poppins Returns. Is it Returns? Is that the name of that movie? Yes, Mary Poppins Returns. I'm going to guess that. Correct. Mary Poppins Returns. She plays

Jane Banks. Married to Ben Washaw. Wait, no. Aren't they brother and sister? Oh, yeah. Never mind. Scandal. Disney, what are you doing? Making incest movies for them masses. I'm going to guess a movie that I

I love Emily Mortimer in, and I do really like this movie, though. I should maybe revisit it. Lars and the Real Girl. Yes, correct. So good in that movie. It's her and Paul Schneider are a couple in that, and Gosling is his brother or her brother? His, right?

I think Paul Schneider and Ryan Gosling are brothers. Yeah, I think that's. That's right. Because I think it's that, like, she has a lot of affection for him as the in-law, I think. I think that's right. She's so good. She's so good. Yes, she is.

Okay, now this is where it gets tricky. So you got two of four. You only have one strike. Trying to think of what I maybe first saw. Oh, she's in Scream 3. I think that's the first time I saw her in something. I think that's the first time I saw on something, too. It is not Scream 3, however.

So. Damn it. Your remaining years are 2005 and 2009. 2005, I think you'll get. 2009 is going to be a challenge. 2009 might end up being a free-for-all-of-hance. Oh, okay. Okay, so 2005, that's before what we're talking about.

Right. So it's post-lovely and amazing. Right. But before Lars and the Real Girl, because Lars and the Real Girl was the writer-strike year. 07, yes. 05. What would I have seen her in?

Is this an Oscar movie? Let me check. I know it was an award season movie. Yes, it was nominated for one Oscar. It was nominated for four Golden Globes. Oh, okay. So that probably seems. says that the one

Oscar was in a major category. Was it an acting category? No. Okay, what did really well at the Globes that year that like kind of flubbed Oscar? Was it a craft category?

No. That'll be harder. Okay, so was it a writing category? Yes. Screenplay. Yes. Oh, it's matchpoint. It's match point. Woody Allen's Match Point. Yes.

Nominated for Globes for Picture, Director, Screenplay, and Supporting Actress for Scarlet Jones. Yep. It did very well with the Globes. It did. I like Match Point. I know that was a pretty divisive movie, but I really enjoyed it. I remember liking it at the time, and then when I rewatched it, like, shortly after it, I was like, this is a little flimsy. That's probably true, but I thought it was quite enjoyable. Anyway, your 2009 movie is not a movie that I have seen, but I've definitely heard of it. It is a... How do I characterize this?

It's like... It's sort of a one... It's not a one-man show, but definitely, like, one actor as a character is, like, the focal point of it. It is British. I'm guessing it's pretty small, too, because it's probably not a hit.

It's pretty small. She's second build. Oh. She's a cop, it seems. Is the lead also a cop? No. Or is the lead like a criminal? The lead is a criminal. Or like a...

Yes. The lead has been a bad, bad girl. The lead has been careless with a delicate man. The poster is this lead character with a gun in his hand walking away from a bunch of burning cars in a very sort of like... Is it like Liam Neeson? I guess it's 09. It would be before that for Liam Neeson. It's before that for Liam

Neeson. But the movie does seem like the kind of thing like Liam Neeson would probably make now. It was a... Okay, so who would that probably be in 2009? It was a TIF movie. It was a South by Southwest movie. It's...

The lead guy is very much Oscar approved. It's very successful with Oscars. So it's a winner. Yes. British. Yes.

Not Daniel Day Lewis. No. Um... That does these kind of Liam Neeson movies, though. I mean, I don't know if he does a lot of them, but he's like definitely done them. He's much more, these days, he's almost exclusively a supporting character in big movies. Okay.

But I know this actor. It's not like I'm digging the well for some way in the Oscar win. Right, exactly. Okay. A lead actor winner? Nope. Supporting. Okay, he's one supporting.

Very much one supporting. Like, so much one supporting. as in like has won multiple supporting Oscars Perhaps yes Okay Prior to or after this movie Prior British

It's not like a British movie with an American star Nope a very British star in fact when people Won multiple Oscars before 2009 British man In This like crime movie Yeah When people like to do British accents Oh, is it Michael Cain?

It's Michael Cain. Okay. In 2009, so that would be before, well, not actually after Christopher Nolan sucked him up into basically playing Butler's who aren't butlers. Right. His butler phase. There's a little.

Daniel's the butler, which is Force Whittaker. Michael Kane is Christopher Nolan's the butler. Yes. And he wouldn't be a butler in that. Even Alfred really isn't a butler in those movies. Oh, interestingly, the guy who directed this... The guy who directed this, directed the Keeping Room,

that Britt Marling-Haley-Steinfeld movie, The Keeping Room. Oh, I don't know who that director is. Yeah, it's not... Okay, so I'm trying to think. I think I know what this poster is. I feel like if there was anything I know this movie for, it was like, oh, Michael Cain is doing Get Carter again. Right. Right. Or that's the vibe.

That's the vibe, at least of the poster. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Except I don't know the name of this movie. It's the name of the movie, like, the character name. It is. Okay. I think I basically got it. Yeah.

Harry Brown. Sure. Michael Kane in the very famous movie. Harry Brown. Well done. Good job. Thank you. I love Emily Mortimer. Yes. She's great. Okay, so obviously I also went the Nicole Hollif Center route with her stars. One that I praise, and I feel like I praised this performance before, but I wanted to get a little difficult. I did not do a female Nicole Hollis Center star. I did a male one. For you, Joseph, I have Mr. Oliver Platt, please give.

Any television? No television, no voiceover work. Damn. All right, so once again, a character actor who's been in a lot of things, but what did he, what was he most prominent in? Is please give one of them? No. Damn it. All right.

That was a waste. Is Bullworth one of them? no I'm trying to think of movies where he was like played like very big characters and that was definitely one so you're getting your years

your first year is 1993 then there's two from 1999 and one from 2009 okay is 1993 Dave

it is not Dave damn it All right It is, however Oh no, it is not an Oscar nominee I thought it was a best song nominee But it is not Oh

Definitely the song in the movie is from a At that time, recent Oscar-nominated A song star Oh A recent Oscar-nominated song star songwriter. I'm pretty sure that the songwriter was nominated for that song. Definitely chasing the vibes of that song. Okay. Then two in 99 and one in 2009. Yes. All right. Oscar nominated songwriter from the early 90s slash late 80s? Early 90s. Early 90s. Probably not Madonna.

Brian Adams Yes Brian Adams Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, it's the three musketeers The Three Musketeers Oh, Brian Adams, Sting, Rod Stewart All for One, all for Love, yes What if that was an Oscar nominee?

What if? Okay. All right, 99. Are any of these Oscar movies? I was looking at this because there was one that I thought got one nomination, but it didn't. However, one of the 1999 movies does have one Oscar nomination. Major or minor? It's a craft category.

However, this is also a movie that I think you and I would jockey for being nominated for Best Original Song. Oh. There's a lot of good original songs in 99 is the thing. Hold on. Not Beautiful Stranger from Austin Powers. Not the World is Not Enough. No, but that'd be rad. Yeah.

99. Song we liked. No one knows this song. It's just you and I know this song, and we write hard for this song. Great. I'm pretty sure we featured it in a previous episode. I can't. I could not tell you.

what episode, but I know we use this song as a punchline before. And only we like it. Is it a action movie? No. So not an action movie, but in a craft category. So, score?

Oliver Platt. No, not best score. I'll give it to you. Best makeup. Best makeup, 1999. Oliver Platt. Is he like The Friend? I think he's either the friend. He might be the friend who is also a dad.

Oh, God, it's Bicentennial Man. Bitch, it's Bicentennial Man. Yes. Thank you, featuring Celine Dion on the soundtrack and on the video getting turned into a robot creature, bicentennial man. Amazing. Okay. The other 99-1... The other two are movies I would have guessed for Oliver Platt, I will say. Really? Okay. So you have a 1999 movie, and you have a 2009 movie. God, what even happened in 2009? It's 2009. Both of these movies are junk. They are not good movies.

They are genre movies. Okay. Genre as in like comedy or action or... No. I think both of these movies are movies that people would probably enjoy ironically. Okay. One of them a sizable hit. And then the 1999 movie is like something that you'll find on TBS at any given moment.

Action or comedy? But people ironically love it. Neither. Neither action nor comedy. Is it? No. Ready to Rumble is both action and comedy. It's not ready to rumble.

the 99 movie that we're talking about has a fairly famous and gauche use of an old lady oh god it's lake placid it's lake placid i would call lake placid well i guess it's not action it's a horror movie there's not a lot of action yeah okay yes gosh betty white uh what does she say like She says if I had a dick, I would tell you to suck it. That's right. Oh, but he went. Okay, 2009, not a comedy, you said... 2009, not a comedy.

This very specific genre is kind of this director's specialty. We talked about this director one time for a very atypical movie for them and probably the worst movie we've ever covered. on this podcast um oh god the competition for that is fierce um action director who directed something atypical yes sort of modeling action but what kind of action movie what kind of action um revenge action disaster movie yes 2012 2012 Roland Emmerich 2012

That's right Because it was made in 2009 And they were just like Don't worry in a few years The world's ending You know what would be a fun time at the movies A movie that makes you think the world is ending in three years Oh they only had it off by a few

That gauche movie Yeah 2012 You're right people do appreciate that movie ironically I will say that And also Lake Placid good clues, very good clues. Yeah, and I think that's our episode.

If you want more This Head Oscar Buzz, you can check out the Tumblr at thisheadoscarbuzz.tomber.com. You should also follow us on Twitter at Had underscore Oscar underscore Buzz. This episode is supported in part by Gateway Film Center, a non-profit cinema committed to supporting storytellers. Authentic stories can inspire it, new ideas, entertain, push boundaries,

spark new levels of empathy and advance social change. To learn more about their program and plan your visit for award season weekend, please visit gatewayfilmcenter.org. Joe, tell our lovely listeners where they can find more of you. Sure, I'm on Twitter at Joe Reed, Reed spelled R-E-I-D. I am on letterboxed as Joe Reed spelled the same way. And if you want to find me literally in person,

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