This Had Oscar Buzz - 147 – Boy Erased (Focus Features – Part Five)

Episode Date: May 31, 2021

Our Focus Features miniseries comes to a close with 2018′s Boy Erased. Based on the memoir by Garrard Conley, the film stars Lucas Hedges as a young man from a religious family who is subjected to conversion therapy when his parents (played by Nicole Kidman and Russell Crowe) discover that he is gay. Though sensitively approached … Continue reading "147 – Boy Erased (Focus Features – Part Five)"

Oh, oh, wrong house. No, the right house. We want to talk to Maryland in here. I said you're not going to get married. I'm from Canada water. Your parents signed you up for a program to fix you. But, Jared, you are a perfectly normal, very healthy teenage boy. They're going to do things for you.

You want to say your advice? the refuge program. You cannot be born a homosexual. This is a lie. It's a choice. Go. Fake it till you make it. Become the man you are not.

Save yourself. Karen, God will not love you the way that you are. Is this what you want? Who's going to strike this demon down? Hit it! Hello and welcome to the This Had Oscar Buzz podcast. The only podcast that forgot to mention the garbage plate moment in The Place Beyond the Pines.

And I can't tell you how sad I am. But I forgot to do that. Western New York represent. Why did I feel like we talked about the garbage plate? Because we talked about it after we stopped recording. I made you listen to me go on for like seven minutes about what a garbage plate is after we stopped recording. Before you finish the copy, you have 10 seconds to say your garbage plate thoughts.

Oh, it sounds disgusting, but it's like every diner in Western New York has some version of a garbage plate. In Rochester, it's slightly different. It's just like, whatever. It's just like a hamburger and a hot dog. Texas Red Hawk gravy and macaroni salad and it sounds disgusting and I probably would never order it but also like local

pride and they mentioned it for like half a second in the place beyond the pines and it literally was just like ooh garbage plate. In western New York it's more of like an eggs and breakfast meat with redhots gravy on top of it which I also don't like because I'm a baby about hot sauce anyway anyway. Oh my god

this sounds like Poutine from hell kind of yes it is kind of like Putin from hell. But also, like, every corner of this country has its delicacies, and that is ours. Anyway, every week on this had Oscar buzz. We'll be talking about a different movie that once upon a time had lofty Academy Award aspirations, but for some reason or another, it all went wrong. The Oscar hopes died, and we are here to perform the autopsy. I'm your host, Joe Reed. I'm here, as always, with my favorite revelation. Chris File. Hello, Chris. Um, uh, not like Troy Savon, uh, breathily moaning, you're a revelation, but I want it to be like Jennifer Jason Lee, uh, muttering annihilation. Your revelation. The thing about Troy Savon is like, fairly or unfairly now, everything that he says, I assume is a metaphor for anal sex.

For his butthole. So like, right. So like, I imagine that when he says you're a revelation, it means like, to my butthole. Like, that's sort of, like, the unspoken, like, post-script to every line that he says. Aren't there literal lyrics about God in that song? Yeah, but it's also, like... What are you doing to this boy's nice song? He's welcoming God into his butthole.

What? We can't welcome God into our buttholes. You welcome him everywhere else. Grow up, Chris. Grow up. That's all I got to say about that. Anyway, that song's about his butthole. I, um, I'm grateful that he's in this movie, if only because, like, listen, I will, I will keep stoking the fires.

of this age war that seems to be happening on Twitter between gay people again because it's summer. Gay people have to fight about things. I'm grateful the Troy Savans in this movie so that I can tell him apart from any of the other twink singers like the Charlie Puths, the Sean Mendezzes. Oh, you have face blindness for all those boys.

Face blindness, ear blindness, can't tell him apart. I... The choice of on, I can put a face to a movie. The thing about the Troy Savon character, and he like gets maybe like, you know, two scenes where he actually really gets to say anything and he's not bad and I think he's actually pretty good. The thing that was

like this conversion camp is so strict about like not standing with your hands on your hips the wrong way or like you know whatever masculine posture or everything and they let this boy sit there with

bleached blonde hair and visible roots. It was driving me crazy this time they would not have let him do that. They would have shaved his head across. Exactly. They would have buzzed his hair. And I wonder if that was one of those things where his management was just like, you are not shaving our client's head. Like, he has money to make as a butthole singing, like, pop star. So. So, I was also maybe there for two days. Well, right. And also, that's what I mean. It's just like, so we're not going to do for like two days of filming. We're not going to, you know, put this kid back eight months in terms of like where his hair's at to be a pop star. Like, that's not going to happen.

And, like, I get it. But also, it would have been funny to see them, like, try and see GI, like, hair color on to them or something, right? Just, like, mix it up. Do something. Would have been funny if somebody reviewed this performance and called his performance a revelation. Yes, it would have been. Chris, we are somehow already at the end of our Focus Features miniseries. How did we get here?

What happened? It happened so quickly. How did we get here? How the hell Pan left close on? Shut the fuck up. Sharon Stone as a muse. Sharon Stone mused this entire miniseries into existence, and now Boy Erased is going to make us fight to, I don't know,

retain our identity as Focus Features, Adherence. Fans. I don't know. That was sweaty. We're ending on a movie that proved my point that you were like, no, when has that ever happened? in some earlier episode that the most homophobic thing

that can happen in a Focus Features movie is to not have the intro audio and the Focus Features logo because Boy Erase has some guitar music. Yes.

Yeah, that was a shame. That was a bummer. I wanted it. I needed to wash over me as we have talked about before. And I had a vivid experience of sitting next to you when we watched this movie

and being pissed about that. About that moment. Yeah, we're going to have a lot to talk about, so we should get into the focus features. We should talk about when we first saw this movie, too. Wait, how many other this Hadaska Buzz movies have we covered what that we saw together? It's only been like one or two other times, right? Widows.

Widows, right. That might have been the first, actually. We haven't had a whole lot of opportunities. Yeah. We definitely saw this together. This was mere moments before I rolled. my ankle walking down the steps at the Scotia Bank 1

in the movie so blah it made you sprain your ankle I okay I'm gonna end up probably defending this movie more and part of the reason I think while I sprained my ankle was not only because we were trying to like leave the theater early in the pitch dark to catch

can you ever forgive me across town but we were leaving sort of like as the choice of on is playing and as sort of Lucas Hedges is like swaying his hand in the breeze or whatever and I was I will say not even to my embarrassment I won't even be fully embarrassed by this I was choked up by this moment and I was sort of like by the end of this movie I was sort of like I you know it took my brain down some some thought pathways and I was a little and also 2018 was a I don't know I was I was going through some stuff it was a time it was an experience it was an experience and so all of that plus the fact that like the lights had not come up and also the stairs at the scotia bank theater are treacherous because some steps are short and some steps along and you can't always tell by the footlights and so yes i like just fully missed a step and tumbled forward down like three

steps and rolled the fuck out of my ankle and then you like helped throw my ass into the back of the cab and because the whole time i'm like let's go back to the Airbnb and you're like, no, we're getting with a crowd. It's Melissa McCarthy and Adromedy. I got to see it. I was like, are you sure? And you're like, yes. And I'm like, whatever, hobbling my like quickly swelling ankle up the steps at the Winter Garden.

Yeah, up in the like stratosphere of the Winter Garden Theater. You know what, though? Worth it. That movie was worth it. Can you ever forgive me? It was so good. I was so glad I saw it. But then I was basically limping through the rest of that tiff.

Like, it was, um, it was unfun. And also, that was when I was sleeping on the most uncomfortable non-bed that I've ever had to, like, deal with at Tiff ever, where it was this, like, full-down couch with, like, just a full-on, like, wood bar down the middle of where you were supposed to sleep. And it was just a nightmare, just an absolute nightmare. I think we can all blame this on Troy Savon. Uh, yeah, sure. It's all his fault. It is. And we can blame it on Focus Features for not including the very calming, soothing intro music to the time.

I would have been a lot more calm as I was exiting that theater. So, yeah, 2018, Boy Erased. This is how we're closing out our Focus Features miniseries. The last film we did was 2013's The Place Beyond the Pines. So, like, last we left our beloved quasi-indy dependent, they just, gotten a Best Picture nomination for Dallas Buyers Club in 2013. And this next stretch of years is, like, it is deceptively sort of failure-heavy, or at least, like, there's a lot of, like, this had Oscar buzz type movies in this next

stretch of years between 2013 and 2018. And yet, the thing was, Focus managed to, like, pull out a, at least one like Oscar reliable movie per year where like 2014 it's not really much of anything even like hopefuls wise but they got an animated feature nomination for the box trolls this was sort of where they're like a movie right so their relationship with like a sort of really you know bears fruit in this stretch of years I loved the box trolls I thought it was so like best like a movie love it I really yeah I would say that And then also that same year, the Theory of Everything, gets five Oscar nominations, including a Best Picture nomination, and wins Best Actor for Eddie Redmayne. So, like, that was a movie that was sort of, like, lukewarmly received, I would say, by critics. I don't think it's terrible. I don't think it's all that good. I think Redmayne gives an impressive performance, and I think I'm a little bit maybe on the outs critically with people who think.

that but um i wouldn't have voted for him for the oscar but i'm not actually among those five maybe i would have who was the 2014 best actor oh michael keaton man oh yeah michael keaton was so good in bergman you're right you're right anyway um theory of everything does i think better than probably as good as it as they could have hoped for right yeah yeah so good for them 2015, we've talked about suffragette on this podcast before, comes to nothing, but the Danish girl, much as we can talk about its shortcomings and the bad things about it, which are many, gets four nominations and it wins Best Supporting Actress for Alicia Vakander. So, again, success. Like much as me may not want it to be, that's a success. A lot of misses, we're like, February, there was the Jesse Owens movie race, which, like, never really caught any traction. And they released it in February, so really, right.

They have some big whiffs at the fall festivals that year where, like, Nocturnal Animals is awful, and I would say in many ways reprehensible, despite the fact that it involves an A-plus Lorellini and Giant Pearls performance. For 30 seconds. Sure. But listen, a movie that awful, I'm going to take what I can get. And what I can get is Laura Linney in giant pearls. Like, they're just like, it's insane. That and that close. Amy Adams also makes the word junk into a, like, four-syllable word.

That was a movie. I think I've mentioned it before here, that I saw that movie back to back with a rival where... I can't remember which one I saw first. And I think it was that I saw nocturnal animals first and then arrival second, which is good, because if it was the other way around, I would have been in a terrible mood all day. But it's an odd double feature of like one of my least favorite movies of that festival and my favorite movie of that festival. Also at that Tiff, A Monster Calls, which was the J.A. Biona. film about the nice tree. right it was a nice tree

he's such a nice tree it was a very nice tree but yeah it's a boy dealing with his mother's death through like a fantasy world right who's the mom in that Felicity Jones it's Felicity Jones right okay and and Sigourney Weaver

was like the mean British grandmother somehow something right but like that was a movie that because it was in the Oscar season and it had a really great trailer had like a second of buzz. Oh, yeah.

Because of that. And then people at the festival were like, eh. And then the release was kind of like, eh. Yeah. And then it looked for a while like Loving, which had, speaking of Joel Edgerton, that loving, because Loving had premiered at Cannes, right, that year? Yes. And to like pretty decent buzz.

And then it seemed like it had all Peter. it seemed like it was sort of a lost cause. And then right at the end there, the Ruth Nega buzz rebounds and sort of boomerangs. And she gets a, I would say a surprise, Best Actress nomination. I know she had been. Not as much of a surprise as you think because if you look at that season, she actually did she was a mainstay. She did very well the whole season. But I do feel like even with that, I feel like that was like, it was a lot of like sort of

you know, coming back from the dead a little bit. The movie was so muted that I think it was more people thought that the movie was getting lost and nobody was. Let me see. I'm going to pull up which precursor she wouldn't have gotten nominated for because I'm pretty sure she's one of the few that shows up everywhere. I don't think she got a SAG nomination, but I'm willing to be proven wrong. I know she got a Golden Globe nomination because Merrill shouted her out in her, uh, Sussle B. DeMille's speech when she was talking about, you know, stars from all over the world. that kind of thing, which was so nice.

But anyway, while you look that up, the other Oscar success for Focus in 2016 was another like a movie, Kubo and the Two Strings, which I also really liked, even though there are some casting issues in casting white voices to play in this very, very Asian tale. But I think it's a really good movie. He got two Oscar nominations,

one for animated feature, and one for visual effects, which is sort of rare for an animated movie to get a VFX nomination. So good for Kubo there. I think it's a really good movie. Looping back what it was for Ruth Naga, you are right. She was not SAG nominated, but she was also not BAFTA nominated.

And I think the perception was, oh, well, she's a UK actress, that they don't even vote for her. She's not going to get nominated. But it was also that the person who was nominated, they didn't nominate Uper either. but they nominated Emily Blunt for the Girl on the Train, which we've done an episode on. Right. So it's like, come on on on. Where everybody at the last second was like,

oh, it's going to be Girl on the Train. And I think that was also a mistake in perception because, like, regardless of if she's not an American actress, that's an incredibly American movie. Yeah, yes. Yeah, it is. Where for Art thou, wait, now I'm going to. going to forget that director's name.

Jeff Nichols? Jeff Nichols. Where's Jeff Nichols? What happened to him? Okay, we've talked about this, I think, or I was talking about it with maybe another friend. Jeff Nichols is taking over what franchise did I read? They were going to give him one of the sequels. I don't want to say it was a quiet place, but it was something like that.

Let's see what's on is going to be crazy. Hold on. I thought he might have been one of those directors. just like had jumped to television. But maybe not. Well, he's got some series on his IMDB called Hank the Cow Dog, which it seems like it's an animated thing.

Sure. Anyway, never heard of it. I forget what that series is or what the IP is that he's basically taking over and that's going to drive me crazy. Interesting. Well, whatever it is, it's not on his IMDB yet. But I would like to say, I know Midnight Special was a disappointment to many, including me, but...

I kind of like Midnight Special, to be honest. What's that? I kind of like Midnight Special. I think my expectations were so high for it, and it just, it underwhelmed me, and I haven't really thought about it much, although I love the score to that movie. It's a really, really good score. Anyway, so that was 2016. It is a quiet place.

He's doing some type of... Extended universe with a quiet place. Interesting. I don't know if that's the best uses of his talents, but okay. 2017 as well, 2017, there must have been some kind of, well, this is when focus starts to make, like, not entirely focusy kind of movies. They make, like, Atomic Blonde. In 2017, they distribute Atomic Blonde, which is just like, that doesn't exactly seem,

you know, in their wheelhouse, but whatever. They have a lot of misses, obviously, this year. The Zookeeper's Wife is a whiff. The Beguiled for as much sort of attention as it got. That also played Cam, I'm pretty sure. It did. It won. I think Sophia Coppola got Best Director.

That was also the year that Nicole Kidman had like four things at Can. Yeah. But I don't even think they sent screeners out for that movie. No, I think by the time award season came along, they had sort of given up the ghost on the campaign for that um the book of henry is on his blood on focus his hands so um uh yeah that did not go well and then award season comes along judy dench for victoria and abdul gets way closer to an oscar nomination than i think any of us were comfortable with even though we shouldn't have been so surprised because it's judy dench

and Oscar voters love Judy, or awards voters love Judy Dench, and it's her revisiting the role that got her her first Oscar nomination, the Queen Victoria. Not a very good movie, but she came quite close. I'm pretty sure she was Globe and Sag nominated for that. If that movie had like any footprint on the season beyond that, like if that

movie had made any more money, it could have been a lot more likely, but like by the time nominations happened, that movie didn't exist. Yeah, agreed. But 2017 is the first year, the only year to date, that Focus got two Best Picture nominees. So they got nominations for Darkest Hour and Phantom Thread. Both of them get six Oscar nominations apiece. Both of them are on the Best Picture lineup. Gary Oldman wins Best Actor for Darkest

Hour for playing Winston Churchill. That movie also wins for best makeup. Phantom Thread wins for best costumes. So like a year that was shaping up to be disastrous for Focus. ends up being one of their most, and in one certain metric, their most successful Oscar year ever, which is wild to think about. And yet it happened. And then that brings us to 2018.

And again, they're doing a lot more, there's just a lot more movies in general. They had thoroughbreds, which was a Sundance pickup, or were they already the distributor going into Sundance? It was one of those two. And Tully also was Sundance that year. So, they don't get the best documentary nomination for Won't You Be My Neighbor, the Fred Rogers documentary, even though a lot of people thought that they would.

They made good money off of that movie for a documentary. Mary Queen of Scots gets a couple nominations and probably comes closer to getting a Margot Robbie supporting actress nomination than I would like to think. She was probably a safe sixth place. Because she was SAG nominated and also BAFTA maybe. Like she was another one where by the end, right before nominations, people were like, it's probably going to be Margot Robbie for Mary Queen of Scots. Margot Robbie has like a billion BAFTA nominations that we don't talk about because she was double nominated that year.

She's nominated for this. Was she nominated for Wolf of Wall Street at BAFTA? Wouldn't be surprised. Hold on. Now I want to bring that up because that is. I don't think she got any nominations for Wolf of Wall Street. But I think she got something. Hold on.

Bringing up Margo Robbie's IMDB right now. No, nothing major. MTV Movie and TV Award for Breakthrough Performance. So there was that. So what are we looking at? Bafta. She has been nominated for I, Tanya, Mary Queen of Scots,

Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, a very deserved nomination, I will say. She was nominated twice in supporting actress at Bafta for Bombshell and Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. Just give her the Once Upon a Time in Hollywood nomination. That's the one she deserved. yes she's great than that all right anyway Mary Queen of Scots though kind of loon well see this was even though they have Black Clansman this year hit movie yeah that was as well with Oscar gets Spike Lee his Oscar finally even though it's a screenplay nomination a screenplay win not a director win still counts this is still kind of and I hate that we're kind of ending on this because we love focus features but like this is actually kind of a failure Oscar year for that especially if you don't look at how far they took Black Klansman,

which was also a summer movie, too, because, like, this didn't, this movie, Boyer Race did not fare very well immediately in the festival season. Correct. Didn't really get much of a reception at the box office whatsoever. And it also had Mary Queen of Scots and on the basis of sex kind of looming over the season. Like the type of movies that you very much expect to see at the fall festivals

and they don't show up until AFI, which those two movies, if they don't go to Toronto or like tell your ride, you kind of know what that means. Well, I remember, so Mary Queen of Scots, when I eventually wound up seeing it, I was like, this is actually halfway interesting. I don't love it, but I don't hate it. There are some interesting things going on in this.

But because of the fact that it got held for so long, I remember being like, this thing must be terrible because they're not putting it in any of the festivals. And you just get that assumption that because they're like keeping it away from the festivals, they're trying to like hide it somehow. And for whatever reason, that reputation stuck. I don't know how good, I don't know how well it would have fared if it had done the fall festival circuit. But that was definitely the reputation that sort of had come around for insider. circles by that point was they're hiding for on the basis of sex and like I think both of those

movies are fine yes but like once they had finally gotten seen they already had this kind of tainted air about them because they were these big huge movies that like we expected to be awards players and yeah you know when the whisper campaigns start and when a movie doesn't go to a festival when it is reportedly ready to go to a festival yeah well and especially if you look at best actress that year. I am incredibly happy that both Melissa McCarthy and Yelitsa Aparizio were nominated for Best Actress that year for Can You Ever Forgive Me and

Roma, respectively. But you can easily see a world where Felicity Jones nabs a second Oscar nomination for on the basis of sex. If that movie is campaigned savally and sort of, and is put in front of voters in a certain way. Like, you can, like, that's not out of the question. Even with that,

movie being mediocre. It's not terrible. It's not great. But, like, that is the kind of performance you could easily have seen nominated. And so you're right. It's kind of... Same with Sersha, too. For Mary Queen of Scots. Yeah, that's a very good point. That's a very good point. Again, happy that it

shook out the way it did. One of the sort of bright spots of that 2018 Oscar year, which we'll get into probably a little bit later, was how best actress kind of shook out, both in the nominees and in who eventually won. but we'll get to that in a bit so yeah so this is the end of our focus i think after 2018

without sort of lingering on it too much they got another best picture nomination this this past year for promising young woman does really really well with that movie and i know that like pandemic circumstances sort of you know brought the field back to a level where something like Promising Young Woman could do really well. But I think, like, by all metrics, focus features played that card very well, I would say. Yeah, I mean, I think that as far as the pandemic is concerned,

and awards campaigning is, you know, played out in the past year. I think probably nobody did a better job in terms of when they scheduled a movie and how they position themselves in the award season. I don't think anybody played the game better than Promising Young Woman did, ultimately. Yeah. I mean, obviously, no, Madland won.

So it's not, like, as far as a movie that didn't that didn't, like, win best picture, obviously. Sure. That movie was handled incredibly well as far. A movie that, like, if COVID hadn't happened and that movie had stuck to its release plan, it probably wouldn't have landed a single nomination. Right. I agree.

Because it was a... Maybe Carrie Mulligan, could have gotten like a surprise fifth nomination or like something that they really would have had to like battle for but like yeah I agree I remember when that when those reviews came out of Sundance I was like I'm so excited to see that movie

but it never crossed my mind that it would be an Oscar contender because I don't know it just felt like there was just so much ground for it to travel and then obviously the whole landscape changed Promising young woman ends up being the 13th best picture nominee for Focus Features to date in the, what do we say, almost 19 years now that it's been

existence. So that's, you know, almost, it's not quite one a year, but it's, you're averaging, certainly, you know, two out of every three years or something like that. I can't do the math off the top of my head. But it's a good run. It's a good run for Focus, just to sort of run it down, 13 Best Picture nominees of all a focus the pianist lost in translation broke back mountain atonement milk a serious man the kids are all right dallas buyers club theory of everything darkest hour phantom thread black clansman

and promising young woman that's those are like some really interesting titles and again have never won best picture i don't know if i feel like they're knocking on the door i don't really have that sense but like again they did a really great job with the movie like promising young woman And they could still, you know, lightning could strike for them. And I kind of hope it does just because I'm fond of them. Yes. So anyway, that brings us 30 minutes into this recording to the film in general. But, like, you know, this is, we want to, we want to send focus out on a good note.

Listen, our focus episodes have been jam-packed episodes. Yeah. And, you know, we got a lot to talk about. We hope you, we hope you like that, dear listener. All right. So we're talking about boy erased. I want to, let's jump into. the plot of this movie and then we can

talk about what we liked about it, what we maybe didn't like about it, how successful it is, and we'll go from there. So, 2018's boy erased. It is directed by actor-director-director Joel Edgerton, also written by Joel Edgerton based on the memoir by is it Gerard Conley? I think it's Gerard. Garrard?

Starring Lucas Hedges, Nicole Kidman, Russell Crowe, the iconic Aussie do best friends, Russell Crowe. A lot of Australians in this movie. Yes, Joel Etcherton, also Australian. Also Cherry Jones, Troy Savon, Xavier Dolan, Joe Alwynn, Flee, of course, from the Red Hot Chili Peppers. This premiered at the Telluride Film Festival on September 1st, 2018. It opened very small on November 2nd, 2018, never expanded beyond 670-something screens, and made very little money.

Chris, before we get into all that, though, would you like to do a 60-second plot description? Why not? That's what we do here. Let's do it. All righty. So, Chris, 60 seconds to sum up the plot of Boy Erased, starting now. Boyer race centers around a young man named Jared, who's played by Lucas Hedges. He comes from a very conservative religious family. His father is a car owner, a car dealership owner, but he's also a pastor. His mom is very ingrained in the church as well. He ends up coming out as gay and they put him into reparative therapy. Meanwhile, we learn more of his backstory while he's going through the reparative therapy with his family and such through flashbacks and such. Turns out when he first went to college, the one male friend

that he makes, ends up raping him in the night and this kind of fuels a lot of what keeps Jared quiet about his sexuality. Anyway, back at the conversion camp, he is faced with a lot of mental and abuse, such as is in reparative therapy. And eventually he leaves with the help of his mother and his mother accepts him, but his father, it's kind of like, you know, a tense situation. That it is, and that is time. Very good. It's kind of really hard to get, like, into the detail of, like, plot in terms of what happens.

It's a lot of observations like Troy Savon telling him, you just have to play the role and get through it and then figure it out once you're on the other side. It's Xavier Dilan who is on fucking one in this movie. I think he does a good job in this movie, I will say. I think he thinks he's in another

movie. That's very possible. Not surprised that that's Zavia Dilan that way. It's a lot of bead jewelry encasing Nicole Kidman's body. Yes. So I feel like my feeling with this movie is

is, I would have liked any element of it to have been more of the movie. And I think the movie kind of spreads itself pretty thin among the stuff with his parents, the stuff at the conversion camp, the flashbacks. And I'm like, any one of those, if they had been the focus, I think it's probably a stronger movie. I think it's not a good piece of adaptation, to be honest. I think that's probably true. Did you read the, did you read the memoir? No, I can't read it as we know. Famously, Joe can't read. I've read the memoir.

It's incredibly internal. It's kind of loose throughout time. I felt like at times it was hard to tell what that he was going through was before or after the conversion therapy. Oh, interesting. Because like there, it seems like there was actually a lot leading up and a lot of fallout afterwards. Yeah. What Joel Edgerton probably does get right about the adaptation is that the book is really

about this family dealing with this situation, not the like kind of ins and outs of the religious reparative therapy stuff that like feels like is looked at, you know, salaciously in terms of like, we want all the details of how this person was abused, you know, in terms of like... Except I don't feel like it's delivered all. that salaciously that was one of the things I sort of liked about it was that it never felt like it was being jinned up for drama even though I know I don't I don't mean that from the movie I mean when people when like we discuss this oh sure sure sure as a culture as a society it feels like you know

people are you know rubbernecking people being abused um and like the majority of the book really felt like him dealing with his, you know, trauma from being sexually assaulted and the trauma of like, you know, being closeted and, you know, the dynamic that was broken with his family and trying to repair it so that they're a family that communicates together. Yeah. More so than, you know, what probably sold the book. And I think Joel Edgerton is right in the tone of that, but like, doesn't really get a rhythm, doesn't get a balance.

This movie doesn't really feel like it has an arc to it. And, like, the best stuff of the movie is in the last, like, 15 minutes, right? Yes. The confrontation with Russell Crow. Sure, yes. Like, the, like, kind of catharsis of him being able to leave the, you know, indoctrination. Here's where I sort of emerge as. not the best person

it's what it's a four-year jump from him getting out of the therapy camp to when we flash forward and he's living in New York with a boyfriend and this sort of eclectic circle of friends and all the Brooklyn Lager he can enjoy

and I literally I remember at the time I did this too but I did it again when I watched it this time and I was just like because it's like four years later and then like almost immediately he's like sidling up to his live in boyfriend and I was literally just like fuck off like that like and again whatever my inability to land a man is not this film's problem but I was like man it is nice to be young and white and attractive in a big city and you can, you know, land a boyfriend that quickly.

No, I think you're right that it builds to a strong end with the stuff with his dad especially. But I think because Russell Crow is so absent from so much of the middle of the movie, it felt like I'm like catching up to like get, back to where we're supposed to be sort of emotionally with this father-son story. I don't think we get any of their relationship beyond, like, the initial confrontation over, you know, what this Joe Alwyn character said about him, uh, basically blows the whistle on him preemptively, um, out of, right, his rapist is the one that outs him to his family, which is horrible. Diabolical. Yeah. Um, but I don't know. I feel like.

again, this is where I feel like if any one part of the movie had been more fleshed out, I feel like if we had seen more of what's his relationship like with his dad, with his mom, with his community, how does he feel about the church? How does he feel about, you know, his sort of small Arkansas town and stuff like that? I think it's maybe more impactful by the time we get to the end of this movie. Well, I mean, A, I don't think it really builds to that scene. I think that like those scenes just kind of happen siloed on their own and they're effective on their own because I don't think the movie really is good at building to anything. I think like it's kept pretty low.

But like I don't know. I think there is, I think Russell Crow's absence from the bulk of the movie actually kind of helps bolster what Jared is ultimately saying to him or at least it was to me. And I also just think that Russell Crow is really good in those scenes. I think there's a certain restraint that he has that feels very honest but also effective and satisfying on the terms the movie wants to have and like we can get into like who is this movie for but in terms of what I think this movie's intentions are

I don't think that Russell Crow is doing anything that betrays them and I think on the level of who is this movie for though I'm glad you sort of bring that up because that That was a thing that I remember was very much a topic of conversation then. And I think it happens with any time we have a sort of queer-themed movie that has any kind of ambitions to be seen beyond the small sort of cadre of, you know, queer people who, you know, we'll see it. You know what I mean?

We will see it. there's a question of okay are you pandering to stray people are you are you sort of straining to make them understand your perspective or whatever and I get that that is a frustration with a lot of movies I didn't feel that frustration with boy erased I remember thinking especially at the time I was like if this is the if this is a movie if this is a gay movie that is pitched to my parents instead of me fine if this is a movie that is pitched to to the parents of queer kids. If it, you know, not to be like if it changes one person's mind, it's a success.

But like, honestly, if this movie can appeal to, and nobody saw it, so whatever. But if it can appeal to parents and in any way just be like, hey, you know this is fucked up and don't eat, like, this is not a consideration. This is inhumane. Don't treat your children this way. A lot of people also still don't know about gay conversion therapy and what, like, type of abuse goes on. Right. And not that this movie is like a, you know, Goodwill Ambassador from the United Nations or anything like that.

Right, right, right. But I do feel like if this is, if this is the gay movie that's going to be pitched to my mom and dad, and, you know, not my mom and dad, they don't, you know, they didn't send me anywhere and thank God for that. But to someone's mom and dad, I'm fine with that. I'm cool with that. I, like, I agree.

And, like, I think that's fine. Like, if that is, like, what a movie's intention would be. but like I kind of push back that that is the full intention of this movie like I do think that it's less that the movie isn't meant for people who have maybe gone through conversion therapy or you know other queer people who feel passionately about it it's that it's one of the movie's failures that it doesn't get enough inside of Jared's head and Jared's experience And, like, it's not easy material, too, because, like I said, the memoir is incredibly internal. And, like, Lucas Hedges is doing all he can.

I think it's a good performance, but, like... I do, too. But I think you're right. But, narrativeally, it is a failure on this movie's part to not... That he feels more like a cipher. I want to know him so much more. I want so many more chances to let Lucas Hedges bring me into this character. easily the best scene in the movie is the flashback to the artist who he spends the night with

and it's so brief and it's so but it's just like all the potential in the world is in that scene and I feel like that's the scene where we have the best chance to see Jared sort of for who he is and it's just so it's so tantalizingly brief and I but like when those when they start sort of just like having that conversation, I'm just like, I want to listen to this for like 25 whole minutes, and we get it for about two. And it's frustrating. I don't know. I don't know how you felt about that scene, but I, it's a lot less impactful to me, but like I can see what you're saying in terms of. It feels like it's the only time that, I mean, I think maybe it still doesn't get into his experience that much or like from his point of view or illuminating it to us.

It's just that he actually talks about it for that one scene because. Yeah. But that's what I mean. I feel like if we get more time with that, that's like that's the Rosetta Stone. That's the thing that sort of unlocks the movie if we could have unlocked it. The thing that maybe unlocks the movie is the scene that leads into him, you know, fleeing and, like, getting his mother to come pick him up. First of all, any scene of mom will you come pick me up is, like, tragic.

But where they're trying to get, Joel Edgerton's characters, trying to get him to, like, say all the things that he hates about his father, the things that make him angry, and he's like, I'm not angry at my father. And that, if I remember correctly, felt more protracted and more, like, verbalized in the memoir and it feels like it's a little too brief in this movie. Yeah.

Yeah, there's just a lot that it feels like the movie is not getting into a gear, right? Like it's always stuck. I hate to use a car. Listen, the most homophobic thing that I will say on this episode is use a car metaphor

when we're talking about a gay movie. But it feels like it's constantly stuck in first and like I remember at this tiff we had heard through like the rumor mill of like this being one of the movies that was having a really hard time in the editing room and I think you can watch the the movie and see the signs of that where it's like yeah the structure of it is you know it feels like very much someone trying to feel it out and I don't think I don't think it's very confidently directed I don't think The assemblage kind of makes any, it makes narrative sense, I guess, but it doesn't make, like, trajectory sense.

Like, it just feels kind of meandering until the finale of the movie, which is, like, I think probably the best scene, the final father-son scene. Yeah. And then you have Nicole Kidman doing the speech of a mother knows when something is wrong, which is like, if there's a scene in the movie that it feels like, this. movie is for the parents of gay children. Of course. It's that scene. Which I think she's fine. And I also appreciate that her performance feels like calculatedly

understated in a way that feels better. Like if this was more like, I mean, maybe some people will disagree with me, but if it was more like wrought and earnest, it would be too much and it would probably be worse.

And I feel that way about all of them the main performers. I think Kidman and Hedges and Crow all I think pretty intentionally don't deliver these big moments with a capital out. They're trying to avoid an after-school special. They're trying to avoid the like high melodrama of the like worst version you've seen of this movie. And like I give their performances credit for that while saying I still don't think it's very well directed. I also, I hate to be, because I think this is very reductive criticism when you bring something down to like an accent.

And I wish that, and I know why movies don't do this, but I wish they had just been like, realism be damned, Nicole Kidman, just talk how you talk. Because like, I think there are a few moments where I'm just like, her trying to get to the accent of this Arkansas woman is getting in the way of her playing the scene, the way. I know she can play that scene. And I don't know. There were just a couple moments where I'm just like pulled out of it when I don't want to be when she's like delivering this really good performance or really good scene. And it's just like, oh, no, right?

You really had to like work to get that, you know, R or something like that. You know what I mean? She's a good actress who's giving a decent performance that's probably still miscast. Like, I want to see like Holly Hunter in this role. But I will say, was this the year? Was this the Tiff of Kidman Wigs? Was this the... It was also Destroyer.

Okay, yes. That wig is perfect for that character. That look is perfect for that character. And I think it communicates a lot about that woman. And I think all of that works and is, you know, good shorthand. And I'm just, like, bummed that the accent didn't, you know, go hand in hand with it. I'm not I it was less distracting to me and maybe that's because like at this point Nicole Kidman accents I just I'm along for the ride um can I talk for a second about my

favorite small performance small character in this film yes I think I wrote down in my notes I'm like can we just entrust all of our vulnerable teenagers to Dr. Cherry Jones because like honestly that 30 seconds of scroll green time and it's perfect. That kind of character who was just like an oasis of decency in a world of madness, I'm just like from the second she's just like, I believe in God, but I went to medical school too. And she's, you know, and talking about just like, I can't say that your parents are wrong, but let's just imagine that they are or whatever. And it's just like, she's so, you know, she's so trying to save this kid. And she knows that she can't

beyond a certain point and it's just, again, it's just radical decency and and Cherry Jones could not be better equipped to deliver that scene.

I could have watched that scene 20 times. I think she's just like a warm blanket in that film. Right? I'm not wrong. The little bit of the actors

that you get also We should mention the organization's name so that you can direct all of your... Oh, did they use the actual name? It has since changed its name. Oh, wow. Because also the character that... Everybody's character names are changed, including the protagonist in this movie.

I assume it's probably for legal reasons. Yeah. Because the character that Joel Edgerton is also playing, I think he's terrible in this movie, by the way. He's the worst performance in the movie. Oh, that's interesting. The real-life counterpart has since abandoned the organization and has, you know, married a man. Which is, like, the least surprising reveal I've ever seen, right?

Where it's just like, I think the post script really thinks it's like pulling the will, pulling the blanket out from under you. Right. And just sort of just like, married to a man. I'm like, yeah. Yeah, and we don't want to necessarily perpetuate the myth of all homophobes are gay, you know? No, but this organization had a whole thing of just like, we are, our clients are also our instructors, do you know what I mean? And it's just like, so like it's, it's a, it's this self-perpetuating cycle of, you know, you are, you know, warping these, these people at a certain point. and then radicalizing them in your own, you know, cult of whatever.

And, like, yeah, of course the guy who's running this thing is also a former, you know, reformed, quote-unquote, homosexual. Yeah, naturally. All that to say, I got far off track, but to say the, like, bit players that are also at love in action are all very good. There's the actress that plays the lesbian that's there that I don't even know if you ever see her speak, but like she exchanges some meaningful glances with Jared that are like more subtextually going on in those moments than a lot is going on in this movie. Jesse La Tourette is that actress's name, by the way. She's really, really fantastic. Yeah, and the guy who plays, I think his name is Cameron, the guy, the sort of big clubball.

It gets the worst that we see. Yeah, Britain Sear is that actor's name, and I think he does a very good job. He's very good. He's very good. I think maybe the best version of this movie is the one that spends more time with his family, but I also would have liked to have seen the version of this movie that really spends a lot more time with the characters in... I keep wanting to say New Directions in my mind.

It's love in action. But right, they all have names like that, right? New Directions, promises kept, you know. Pathway to righteousness All this stuff I know new directions is glee But you know whatever Also

You know what's true about Jesus's love What Jesus's love is no homo Also credit to Flee For being so Terrible Obviously terrifying Just absolutely

Frightening is shit I think Okay But this is my problem With his performance And Joel Edgerton performance, is that it is so it's so

clearly trying to avoid cartoon that it does the full 360 of like trying to be real and grounded, that it just becomes a laughable cartoon again. I don't know if I agree

with that, but go on. I just, first of all, it's not going to be undistracting. To cast Flee in this movie. See, I think that's good casting. I think as soon as I see Flee in that role, I'm just like, yeah, like, he's, like, he's, I know his whole deal.

I know exactly what he's bringing to this performance, and I think it's good shorthand. Because he's like, he's the, you know, masculinity psycho, right? He's just like, he's this. Yeah, he's the, he's the most overtly homophobic to Jared in the whole movie. Yeah. And I mean, like antagonizing him while he's trying to go to the bathroom. Like, right. Yeah, I don't know.

I think he works well. I think Edgerton, I mean, I don't know if I get a whole lot out of Edgerton's performance. I think at worst, it's a little bit of a flat line. But I don't think he strikes any discordant notes, or at least he didn't to me in the two times that I watched this movie. He's not really an actor that I like. I think he's probably doing by a mile his best work he's ever done for Barry Jenkins and the Underground Railroad. And even so, I'm not coming away from the Underground Railroad being like, that Joel Edgerton,

man. Like, yeah, I guess I've been on board with him from Animal Kingdom. I really liked him in that movie. And I feel like he's one of those sort of like a Jeremy Runner type where everybody's like, what's a Joel Edgerton? And I'm just like, okay. But I don't know I think he's fine

I think he's good He was somebody coming into this movie He had directed that movie The Gift with Jason Bateman and Rebecca Hall Which is like Surprisingly like Unexpectedly dark It goes darker than I expected it to be

It's sort of this like Thriller turned horror Kind of a movie About a Um Sort of an obsessed old friend done wrong kind of a thing. Jason Bateman had been the bully to this guy,

to this guy played by Edgerton, who then starts terrorizing him and his family. And I remember being that the reception of that movie was sort of a slow burn, but people, I think, ended up talking about it a good bit. Because it was like a very quiet summer release, like counter-programming to like a kid's movie or something. So, like, people had to kind of discover the movie.

Yeah. It's good. I think it's a good movie. And I feel like there was some, I mean, just talking about the buzz for this movie, there was this, like, big bidding war between Focus and Netflix. And this was, like, the movie was basically packaged already, where it was, like, Edgerton, Kidman, Crow, Hedges were all, like, ready to, like, make this movie. They had acquired the rights to the memoir, and Netflix and Focus sort of fought it out.

to see who would get it, focus wins. I feel like maybe that's the last time that will happen. If there's a bidding war between Netflix and anyone for Netflix to not win. This felt like the era of when there would be bidding wars for projects like this. If it didn't go to Netflix, it was a filmmaker or, you know, a producing team that felt very strongly about the theatrical experience. However, I mean, we've said all of this that we don't think that the movie is very good or it's, doesn't work at the very least, but, like, I think even maybe the best version of this movie might have been better served by a Netflix where it's like, you know, there's been certain things

over the, like, past five years or so that it's like, you know, people may want to deal with this subject matter and the privacy of their own homes. I can think of, like, HBO's the tale when HBO picked that up from Sundance, where it's like, you know, it might, that might actually be a good home for this where people can feel whatever they need to feel and process it however they need to. But God, did that movie get buried on HBO too, though?

HBO didn't serve that movie ultimately. But, like, I can see a version where this movie does that, even if, regardless if the movie is better or not, that it gets better received on Netflix. I feel like, though... Also, Netflix just produces

so much garbage that it's like, well, the bar is lower on Netflix. I think it's a lot to ask somebody to watch something like the tale at home, to watch something that is being sold to you as intense and unsettling and disturbing and challenging, but watch it with your phone, like, tantalizingly two feet from you at all times. Do you know what I mean? See, I think it's more so that, like, if people are going to have an experience, especially if it's like it draws on things that you maybe have experienced yourself,

you may feel more comfortable and safer doing so at home than, you know, in public. Yeah, I mean, okay, I will grant you that. But I will also probably say that that's not the majority of your audience. Well, sure. And it may not, like, that may be more thought experiment than anything else. Yeah. I just feel like those kind of movies, I think. think require the

sense deprivation almost of a theater to you know get the most out of it but I don't know I don't know um we should talk about Lucas Hedges because going into this movie

he was about baby Lukey well I mean we were all in a very sort of and I think we still are I don't think like the bloom is off the Lucas Hedges rose by this point even but like Manchester by the C in 2016. He gets his first Oscar nomination. He's incredibly good in that film. Not everybody knew who he was before that film, even though if you watched The Slap,

you would have known that Lucas Hedges was one to watch. And then 2017, he's in Lady Bird. Obviously, other people got the lion's share of the attention from Lady Bird and rightly so. There's not a single actor in Lady Bird that doesn't steal a scene. Catherine Newton steals the scene in Laneyburg. Yep, yep. That's exactly right. He's truly wonderful in that movie. He's also in three

billboards outside of Bing, Missouri that year. So, like, he was on a real hot streak coming into Boy Erased, and I think not, you know, I don't think it would have, it was unreasonable

if you would have thought, okay, this is going to be a big, breakthrough he gets a golden globe nomination for best actor and also sort of swirling around this and i don't want to linger on it too much but like there was this kind of thought expectation rumor mill whatever that the publicity tour for boy erased was going to include some kind of coming out narrative for him and ultimately he has this interview for vuln. culture with Kyle Buchanan and talks about his sexuality somewhat, I don't even want to say elliptically.

It's not like he's being, he's not avoiding things or whatever, but he talks about how he was, you know, sort of emotionally attracted to his male friends growing up. And it all feels very sort of a soft sort of bisexual. pansexual, you know, queer acknowledgement without being any kind of like, oh, a reticence to put a label on it. Yeah, right, exactly. Which is, you know, not unusual for people in his generation also, I will say.

So, like, part of me feels like this is the flavor of, you know, coming out we're going to get from a lot of, you know, celebrities of that generation and younger. but I think not to be overly crass about it there was an expectation that just like oh if Lucas Hedges is going to be in boy erased and the narrative becomes him coming out amid the release of this movie

that it would be a story that would be a narrative that would be a thing we talk about Oscar narratives a lot obviously on here and that would be a hook that one you know that a studio could campaign on and again it sounds crass because it is crass. Well, and not to be crass myself, but I honestly don't, I think that probably would have not been as well received as people thought, because, like, when you're talking about a story

of gay conversion therapy, and if it was, if he used his own coming out as a tool, coming from a very privileged existence, you know, with, you know. Right. Son of a filmmaker, all that. It would, I don't think people would have. gone for that either. Yeah. But either way, I support his unwillingness to put some type of label on it.

Who fucking gives a shit? I mean, I give a shit. I don't give a shit. I do. I give it. I'm happy to have anybody who wants to come out, come out. I think it's ultimately a net good. Well, yes, of course.

Absolutely. I think it's a net good for the world, the more people who come out. But I also think it's a net good for the world to, for people who maybe feel like they can't put you know it in a tidy box to say I can't put this in a tidy box. Yes right exactly. Label yourself or

don't label yourself however you want to my only thing is I whatever like I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about but I don't want it to be that

not late let that to label yourself becomes gosh. Do you know what I mean? Like if you want to like plant your flag, plant your flag. I don't feel like I don't want people to feel like that's not cool. Like you know what I mean? That like the chill thing is to be like labels don't matter.

And it's not like, you know, it's it's sort of shunned or frowned upon to actually like plan a flag. Well, and I would also add that like we shouldn't be so gauche to say that like there wouldn't be career ramifications for him to plant a flag anywhere. Like, you know, because that still does exist. But it's one of those things where I feel like if, you know, a point of critical mass, you know, can be reached where ultimately, and things are getting, you know, better. And you see more and more people getting cast regardless of, you know what I mean? Like I've seen Matt Bowmer cast as many, you know, as many heterosexuals as as gay characters and stuff like that. But, you know, whatever.

You're right to say that there's, there definitely still is, you know, career considerations, whatever. And I just want Lucas Hedges to be happy. This is all. I just wanted to be happy. Well, and this might not have been the fall to have at least made some of the, his fans happy. Because it was kind of this fall of disappointing releases for Lucas Hedges, because it's this, Ben is back, and mid-90s, which, oh, boy. still haven't seen it still haven't seen mid-90s probably never well you should enjoy your life never seen where it's like it it's kind of and it's like you kind of have to throw beautiful boy in this because it became this like joke like the joke of those movies all blurring together even though they boy erased and ben is back or um beautiful boy and ben is back are the two that have similar themes right you know a son with a dick

parent helping them get through it, right? Yeah. But, like, it became... People said more about those movies blurring together than they did about the movies themselves. Yes, I will say,

with the exception of the fact that I have enjoyed... There are not too many memes that I've enjoyed as much as I've enjoyed the Benisback meme. I feel like... I feel like it's been very malleable to my purposes. I'll just say, you have a lot of fucking audacity taking that much enjoyment out of it since Ben is back as the movie that ended our friendship officially. Listen, I have no regrets. I have no regrets. If I want to point out that when Ben shows up and Ben is back, that that is Ben, I feel like it is well within my rights to point that out.

It is a material fact. I've never been so close to hitting someone. It is a material fact. It was Ben. It was Ben. All right. Do you see the look on my face when you said that to me? Do you see that?

Does it haunt your dreams? I wasn't looking at your face. I was dropping a bomb and then going back to paying attention to the film in front of me. It's not a bad movie. No, I actually, I liked Ben is back, and I think Julia Roberts is quite good in it. She's very good in that movie. Okay. We talked a little bit about Kidman.

Not my favorite performance of hers, obviously. I could see where the buzz was coming. coming from. She did get a critics' choice nomination for this film, which is fun and interesting, because it means the critics' choice at some point thought that the Kidman was going to get an Oscar nomination, which is funny. It is during her sort of supportive mom run, because it's two years after Lion, where she gets nominated for playing a supportive mom. A performance, I think, that she's good in probably wouldn't have made my top five on any kind of a list, but, like, I can't begrudge that nomination. She's good. I was happy to she had a

be a weird Nicole Kidman nomination because it's not like the type of performance she usually does. Yeah. And I guess probably it shouldn't be weird because that's probably precisely why she was nominated. Yeah. Considering like things like birth are the performances I think of when I think of Nicole Kidman. Or the paper boy. Which was the last thing that she had been buzzed for. I totally get why she was nominated for Lion, but not for Paperboy.

Like I get it. I really do. Yeah. It makes sense. I also think probably, aside from the movie not really landing, the thing that probably kept her from getting nomination is like destroyer that year. And it's harder to get nominated for an either or type of thing when it's like you're probably running sixth or seventh for either, you know, like they're competing. They're both competing to be nominated in fifth place, right?

I feel like there was a minute there where it felt like everybody was like, oh, yeah, she's going to get nominated for Destroyer. Even if people don't like the movie, she's going to get nominated for Destroyer. And it went away. Well, it probably went away because it was distributed by Annapurna and they were not good at it when they were doing distribution. Yeah. The Russell Crow of it all is interesting because I feel like it took a lot. long while for the sense of Russell Crow as being an Oscar darling to kind of come back down to earth, because he was nominated three years in a row in 99, 2000, 2001, because he

won a best actor Oscar, and because he almost won two in a row. Like, he came very, very close to winning for a beautiful mind as well. And then it's been nothing since then. I think I think it took us a while to sort of realize that, that just like, they're not going for Russell Crow anymore, just like, it's just like not happening, whether it's American gangster or a body of lies or whatever, you know, Robin Hood, you know what I mean? Any of these kind of things that might have in a different world been a possibility, like, awards voters were not going for that. And so now I feel like, and even stuff like, like Le Miz, where he's just bad. And it's just like, oh, no. So bad. And so now I feel like we're at a time where

the Russell Crow Oscar comeback nomination is going to happen at some point. Whether it'll be for something like this where it's supporting actor. Yes. And he might win another one. I could see him winning another Oscar in his lifetime. Especially if it's something that's maybe a little atypical like this movie is. I still probably feel like he's maybe he's not better than Lucas Hedges, but I think he's really good in this movie. And the, I mean, even if this movie had done better,

supporting actor this year solidified really quickly, um, where it's like maybe six or seven with like four of them absolutely kind of locked for a nomination. So this was that very, very strange year where, um, uh,

Wait, sorry. Oh, no, this was not the, I got mixed up with Mahershala Ali wins. This was not the year that Aaron Taylor Johnson won the Golden Globe. That was 2016. Yeah, Mahershela won the Globe and the Oscar for Green Book this year. Salome, for a Beautiful Boy, was the one who was nominated for a Globe, but then didn't get the Oscar nomination. Sam Elliott, somehow, was not nominated for a Golden Globe, but did get the Oscar nomination. And thank God, he's so good.

And a star is born. Yeah, you're right. I think Adam Driver sort of got like slotted in there and solidified really quickly. Richard E. Grant, thank God, was able to hang on. I was so worried that entire award season that he was going to get like surprisingly left off at the last minute. And thank goodness it didn't happen. And the surprise person that got left off is Timothy Shalame, which everybody treated like a shock. And I kind of expected to happen because I was like, Sam Elliott, Michael B. Jordan, are right there.

and nobody likes Beautiful Boy and nobody's talking about it. Right. I just, yes. I just think, Shalemi was one of those ones where all the precursors were there. And so the, the, it made sense

that the year after this sort of breakthrough nomination for, call me by your name, that they would sort of give him that, uh, that follow-up nomination. Uh, in retrospect, yes. everything that you're saying makes sense. And also Sam Rockwell

unfortunately. And also Sam Rockwell, unfortunately, for Vice, for like a scene and a half, giving a halfway decent George W. Bush impersonation that nobody needed. Yeah. An S&L cameo. And it was Rockwell, who ultimately

gets the, that's the, you know, good job for following up your Oscar nomination. That's the one that I thought Shalema was going to get. It ends up going to Sam Rockwell. Michael B. Jordan in Black Panther is interesting because that's one of those I kept waiting for it to materialize

and it just never did and I would love to know exactly how close he came because I'm wondering if maybe it was like not at all and this was just sort of all wishful thinking in her heads I think that whole campaign for that movie was centered around Best Picture and the crafts

and they never kind of put the gas on getting an acting nomination for it right which is too bad because he rules in that movie and so does Denai Guerrera I was all like, nominate to Nagarira. I know. Do you remember, this is so funny to think of, when the Avengers Endgame poster came out,

and she wasn't, she was not named in the 8 billion actors along the top of that poster. And there was such an outcry over that that they ended up putting her in, that they ended up being like, all right, right, right, right, right, right, we'll put her in. And I think we all sort of felt very, very satisfied

that we had, you know, that direct action had worked and whatever, we were all very good at our rabble-rousing that day. And then you watch Avengers Endgame and you're just like, oh, they just don't have her in this movie, which like all of the outcry was because it made logical sense

that she was going to be in this movie a lot because she was one of the like eight people who didn't get snapped all the smithereens, right? She was one of the few people who was still around. And I think the movie we were sort of making it our head, I certainly was, was just like, oh yeah, like, Akoya is going to be one of the like main people who's going to like go on all the missions and she should have been in the version of

of you know end game that I would have made for a better movie I mean and I liked end game quite a bit but uh but yes oh boy um and so I just thought that was so funny that we were so like hyped up on her on the poster and then he saw the movie and just like oh I get why they didn't put her on the poster like I like I understand um but yeah um anyway she's wonderful in that role I love her um anyway oh all right i want to talk about the song every time i talk about a song from like the two thousands that i'm like i'm surprised i get a nominate that didn't get a nomination and like you or maybe a guest or whatever will just be like joe it wasn't really good song and then i'm like yeah but look what else got nominated and it's always this like vicious circle i don't think this

even made the bake off if i'm remembering correctly which is wild because it was golden globe nominated. I mean, that's not so unusual. The Golden Globes have less than no correlation with the Oscar nominees for that category. This is also one of the years that the Golden Globes, every nominee is like a major, like music star. It's obviously Gaga, obviously Kendrick Lamar, Dolly Parton for Dumplin, and Annie Lennox. The surprise that Revelation wasn't nominated is Jonesy is also credited on it. Oh, that's interesting. Jonesy and Leland.

Because you look at the Oscar nominees that year. Shallow obviously wins. It was always going to win. I think the surprise of that, I still think a Star is Born could have easily pulled a second nomination if it had tried. And I kind of get why they didn't

because they were just like, we got to win this award. And we cannot let the Sam Smith of 2018 creep up on Gaga again. I get it, but I easily easily, something like always remember always remember us this way.

Is it us or me? It's always remember us this way. Us, yes, that's what I found. Something like that could have gotten a second nomination. I'm the psycho that when that movie happened, I was like, that song is better than shallow. It's not, but it's great. You know what I mean? Like, shallow's the...

It's equally as great as shallow. Shallow was a phenomenon. Like, we can't, we can't deny. Shallow is a phenomenon before we heard the full track. Right. That's why, it's that good of a song. It's that. Is this going to be the episode where we devolve into talking about the Starsborn trailer?

I mean, maybe. Have we never talked about it? I mean, maybe the finest trailer of our lifetime. Well, I just walked out of a movie yesterday where I saw the end of the Heights trailer again, and I was on the verge of tears behind my mask. Yeah. But anyway, Shallow was number one of the last year. the bullet that year. All the stars from Black Panther. Great nomination. Love it. I will allow

when a cowboy trades his spurs for wings for the people who loved that movie and for the people who loved that nomination, you can enjoy it. I'm happy for you. I will not be grudgett. Were I given a rumple-stiltskin wish to change that category, I'd keep it in there just for y'all. Good for you guys um but like such a bitch i'm what i'm being very generous you just hate that movie i don't like that movie it's not a good movie it's not a good movie um disagree i'll fight from r bg my beloved diane warren it's it's a no it's a no from me um and then much as i will stand up for certain aspects of mary poppins returns mostly maryl Streep uh as crazy Slavic.

This is just the portion of the episode where we're just fucking fighting. I'll fight. I'll fight. But anyway, I can I will fully, happily jettison the place where lost things go, much as I love Mark Shaman.

Yeah, the choice of On song is better than both of those things and should have been a nominee ahead of those. I maybe at the time thought that the song was better, but like, watching the movie movie this time. I was like, there's literally lyrics that are, it's a rocky road.

Oh, the lyrics are very, and they're very on the nose to like the scene as we're watching, when it plays during the the heart of the movie, where like the, it plays during the scene with the artist Xavier, Xavier, maybe named after Xavier Dillon, who knows.

Where he like says something and then like Troy on the soundtrack sort of like echoes that same line and I'm just like, oh no, don't do that. but it also i will say lyrically maybe not my jam it is no thoughts just vibes

and like i'm i i'm cool with that i'm i'm cool with that in this movie my buttholes a revelation you know justice for butthole songs Troy you are the bard of I'll say another butthole song that should have been nominated that year why did you do that also written by day and Warren I know. That we could have gotten, we could have, you know, more banged for our buck that way.

We could have gotten two stars-born nominees, two Diane, or the right Diane Warren nominee, I should say. And, yeah, all our problems could have been solved. Where else do we want to go? We should also mention Nicole Kidman got an ARP Movies for Grownup Award nomination. All right. I do not have these in front of me. You do. I'm not even going to quiz you on this. You would not be. able to get them. No, just lay them on me. Angela Bassett for Black Panther.

Oh, love it. We love and support all accolades for Angela Bassett. Yeah. Michelle Yo, Crazy Rich Asians. Love it. Love it. Should have been an Oscar nominee. Yep, yep. At least should have gotten way more closer than she did. Yes. Why didn't the fucking Globes nominate Michelle Yo? Like, she's famous. She's a fucking movie star. That's what all they care about or cared about. No, the Golden Globes care about famous and men.

American and British actors. They like, they really, the Golden Globes for all their other problems, one of a big one of theirs is that they don't recognize Asian actors at all. Right. Blythe Danner for what they had, which is actually a pretty nice movie. Still never saw it. Pretty sure it's just sitting there on Hulu still. And then the winner, because we know that this is the only awards body

that watched the screener of this movie. and good for them, and we support them for it. The winner is Judy Dent for All Is True. All is True. The most psychotic movies for grownups moment ever. Listen, you can rely on the AARP Movies for Grownups to stand All Is True. Yep. That's insane.

What an insane lineup. Good for Nicole for showing up in there. What else do I want to say? We mention the song. Do we want to just jump into... I wanted to close our focus features... Wait, let me go through my little notes on the film, just in case we get into the thing.

Before we get into our focus features wrap up. Oh, the very beginning, it was the credits, and one of the producers was Tony Lipp. Not that Tony Lipp, but I got very, very concerned for a second. This Tony Lipp is spelled with two P's, so a different guy, apparently. but it was very, very, that everything truly was coming up Tony Lipp in the year 2018. Tony Lipp, of course, famous pizza folder from Green Book. The whole thing where he had to list the behavioral sins of his family

and the Kidman's character sort of latches on to the whole idea of gang affiliations and whatnot. I thought it was very cute. I thought she did that very well. I thought there was a good moment for her. Oh, I noticed this in the second time around, and I remember it from the first time. The absolute rage in me when the Joel Edgerton character

is basically like, you should drop out of college because it's not teaching you. Like, the godly things, oh my God. I was just like, if the mission here is to get me to go white hot rage against these people, like that will do it. Okay, I have people who are close to me who have somewhat gone through,

not to the extent that the author of the memoir did, but, like, who started reparative therapy, like, sessions and quickly failed. Those people are like that. Those people will try to wedge in, in any way, to get you away from what they perceive to be gay, you know? Yeah. Oh, yeah.

No, I, like, even if it's something that is for your betterment, I'm sure. I'm sure. It did not ring false for me, but it's just like, oh, my God, it made me so, like, angry. And then also, the bus stop moment is genuinely hilarious. And it's not supposed to be, but it's like, it's very funny. It's very funny.

It has no business being in the movie. It's like, he literally touches an ad for Cologne. And it's like, it, it's just such an absolute misstep. And, like, I can see how at the time, like, the gay people, who were angry at this movie for, like, thinking it was for straight people. That's the scene where I'm like, you maybe have a point because that has no business being in here. And it really does feel like there were no gay people on set to say, maybe don't do this. It's not just that it's on the nose, though.

It's that, like, he's, like, walking around sort of, like, sad and forlorn. And there's this bus stop ad of this, like, beautiful, sexy lady. And then, like, as he's walking past it, it changes from the lady to a boy. this, like, gorgeous-looking, like, twink or whatever, like, beckoning him from the, the seafone or whatever, and it's just, like, and this transition of it is so funny. And the affect of it is so, like, you really, really do half expect the boy from the ad to start talking to him.

Like, it's one of those things where it's just, like, you're, it's so cartoonish, and it's so silly. And, yeah, yeah, not a, not a, well, reasoned moment. for that it's really and like even I remember it's in the trailer and when the trailer dropped it already had people's like knives out for it because of that scene

and it's like people who are mad at that are not wrong it's it's not just cringy it's also just like a lot of cliche perceptions that are just like okay and I don't remember anything like that from the memoir too so it's like it's some type of invention here that like

you would see an ad for abs and feel pain by it, you know? I don't, I actually don't mind that part of it. I feel like there's lived experience within, like, I recognize that, the idea of, like, opening up, like, a Rolling Stone and seeing an ad and just being like, oh, my God, like, my, you know, my emotions are ravaging me right now. But it's just like, but the, just like the transition to it and, like, the, flipping of the ad from one to the other. It's just like the tone of it was so quasi-comedic.

It was silly. Silly, I will say. All right, to close out our Focus Features miniseries, to say goodbye to the month of May with our third miniseries, I thought we should rank our top 10 focus features films of all time. We actually didn't know our second film was the very first proper Focus Features movie. So we're going to leave aside October films and USA films and Grammarcy. Movies that Focus distributed outside of the United States were doing U.S. distribution.

Yeah, only U.S. distribution only. So sorry, Lady Bird, even though you were distributed outside of the United States from Focus. You do not count. Yeah, so I will say, and we talked about this a little bit before we started recording, this was very difficult. I had a shortlist, and it was a pretty, like, the bar for making the shortlist. was high, and I had 17 movies. And I was like, how am I going to cut

anything from this list? Everything that I cut is a movie that I love. There's some really good stuff that's not on my top ten. I'll just go through, before we start ranking, I'll go through my runners-up, and then you can do the same. My number 11, and, like, it was flip-flopped back and forth for a while. My number 11 is pariah, and I really, really pains me to leave it off. Other runners-up are previously discussed.

lust caution. Joe writes Pride and Prejudice in Bruges, Door in the Floor, which we've also talked about on this podcast, and last week's entry, a place beyond the pines. We're all cutting room casualties. Oh, and Anna Karenina also. Joe writes Anna Karenina. Spectacular. What were yours? My five runners-up that I have, I have lost in translation for reasons I'll be getting. into um moonrise kingdom uh gus van sance milk sure yes todd haines's dark waters a movie that i think because of the context of that season we were not prepared to really uh deal with what that movie was doing and i think they probably screwed that movie by rushing it out so quickly yeah um and then

park chan wook's thirst that is a great i've still never seen that movie i still have never seen that movie I should. It fucking rules. Don't spoil anything for you guys. That is a wild movie. Go watch Thirst. Nice. All right. Why don't I go my list from 10 to 1? And then we can talk about it a bit.

And then you can do yours. All right. Cool. My number 10 is Carrie Fukunaga's Sinombre from, I want to say, 2009. Maybe I still have to catch up to. Oh, it's good. Breakthrough movie for Carrie Fukenaga. before true detective

before any of this sort of crossover stuff really really excellent movie takes place in Mexico this sort of young guy trying to deal with you know should he get initiated

into a gang does he want to sort of stay away from this and he ends up sort of traveling with essentially on the top of a train across Mexico it's a really good movie my number nine is far from heaven. Todd Haynes is far from heaven. A movie that I've been meaning to rewatch

for a very, very long time. But I just remember from watching it back in 2002, it made a big impact on me. It's gorgeous. Julianne Morris Flawless. Number eight, lost in translation. I'll let you sort of talk about the, you know, your misgivings with it or whatever. And I think I know what you're going to talk about. It's less misgivings and it's more, uh, Sophia Coppola has a lot of Focus Features movies. Yes. And I... Yeah, trying to pair down...

I stuck my claims elsewhere. Trying to pair down the Sophia Copeland movies and the Joe Wright movies was a challenge. I did end up with two of each for both, but that's... There is a filmmaker I have two films for,

but otherwise I was trying to spread the love. Yeah, that's smart. Well, my number seven is Sophia Copa somewhere, so I put both of them on this list. We've talked about somewhere on this podcast before. I do love it. Number six is away we go. I mentioned this movie a lot.

on this podcast. I know a lot of people don't love it, but I really do. I have, like, real true affection for it. It's, uh, uh, it gets me. Number five is Joe Wright's Hannah, which is a movie that sort of gets lost in his filmography a little bit and lost in the Sersher Ronan filmography a little bit, but it is rad. It is super fun and rad and people should watch it.

Uh, what is my number four? Atonement, the other Joe Wright movie on my list. the tonement sort of got tarred with the Oscar bait brush that year and I think it's much better than it gets credit for it's awesome and also James McAvoy is at his

all-time hottest and that is a challenge to get to the hottest version of James McAvoy so good job second hottest to the time that he bumped into you didn't bump into you didn't bump into me, he just walked for a block about six paces in front of

me. And that was all that was fine. That was fine. I didn't need to get any closer than that. My number three is brick, Ryan Johnson's brick, which was like he like, oh my God, I was

such a dork for that movie for a while. And I know that like there's a potential for me for that movie to be like a pretentious film dorks sort of cause celebrity or whatever. But dorm room poster i still haven't seen it's a dorm room poster kind of a movie i will own that but also um very rewatchable i've watched it a bunch of times i think joseph gordon levitt is rad in it and um really excellent my number two is brokeback mountain cliche yes but i like it too um yeah i mean

you know whatever am a you know gay guy who came out of the closet around the same year that broke back mountain happened like what do you want for me what the fuck do you want for me um and then my number one is eternal sunshine of the spotless mind it was never in question that's one

of my favorite movies of all time so this is an exciting list exciting also because I think we diverge

in really interesting ways and we agree in other ways but in different placements that I think is very interesting

all right let's hear yours all right my number 10 you know how much I love this movie I am a huge

fan of Diablo Cody my number 10 is Tully Tully. It's a good selection. A great, very lean movie that it comes so close to the edge of shitting the bed and pivots in a way that I think is very humane and beautiful and made me cry. Number nine, I did include D. Rees's pariah.

Fucking love pariah coming soon to the Griterion Collection. What about pariah? Yeah. Number eight, less caution. We just talked about it. Great movie. Number seven, I chose Paul Thomas Anderson's Phantom Thread, a movie that when I first watched it, I was like, sure, good movie. And the more I think about it, the more I think about the personal dynamics in it, the more I'm like, this is shockingly close to my marriage. I love that movie so much. my husband and I do not poison each other, I promise. Number six, the aforementioned Sophia Coppola somewhere. That was the one I felt like I kind of stuck my claim in. And like, we talked about this in the episode. And I think even since, that is a movie that continues and continues to grow on me in a way that I'm like, this is her very best movie.

My number five is Atonement, all of the things you see. said. Plus, I think it's a really intense movie about regret and making horrible decisions. And I think it's graceful in a way that certain other movies that are coming out this year might not be. My number four, we also recently talked about this. I forget when we would have talked about this. But it's the Cohen Brothers, a serious man. I think it's probably my favorite of their movies. Quite wonderful.

Michael Selebarg should have an Oscar for that movie. My number three is your number one, Eternal Sunshine. My top three, I feel like I'm splitting hairs a little bit because all great movies, all quintessential focus features movies. Yeah, Eternal Sunshine, living with that movie for 20 years, is just like knowing in high school that I love that movie as much as I did feels like I became the person I was supposed to be.

My number two is Brokeback Mountain. Again, I am a gay man, what do you want from me? That was another movie that strangely, when I first thought I was like, okay, I get it, but like it really is on Lee's movie that, like, part of the reason why it packs

such a punch, of course, people bring their own baggage to the movie and their own lived experience to the movie, but like, every second of that movie is packed with so much information that you have to process in a way that, like, that's why this movie is already standing the test of time, because, like, you get people today even, like, raving about how great Kate Mara is in that movie. Oh, yeah. He's in it for one scene, yep, is perfect, is exactly what she's supposed to be, and, like, brings so much, like, life to the table. And, like, you get that in every detail of that movie.

Yep. And it's also hilarious that psychotrumpie Randy Quaid is in it. Yes, it is. It's very hilarious, yes. And then my number one, another reason why probably Dark Waters didn't make my list. My number one is Todd Haynes' far from heaven. Very good. I've said this before.

I can't maybe name many other working filmmakers whose, like, third best movie is as perfect as that movie is. Yeah. Another movie just crammed with so much detail that you really have to contextualize. is not only through the era he's, you know, portraying, but also the references he's using and, like, having a knowledge of what the limitations of the movies he's referencing were at the time. What do you put ahead of it for him, Carol and Velvet Goldmine? Carol and Safe. Oh.

I'm not as big of a fan of Safe as everybody else is. You maybe want to get further away from the pandemic. before you watch safe again? I mean, yeah, I'm not in any hurry to watch safe again, but yeah. Yeah. But yeah, you're right. But Velvet Goldmine is a special one for Todd Haynes. Velah Goldmine is probably towards the bottom of my Todd Haynes list,

but he's also someone who, the worst thing he's ever made is Wanderstruck, and I'm the person that's like, actually Wanderstruck is really good. I've been wanting to rewatch that for a while, because I remember watching it and being like a little, we should actually, being a little disappointed by it, but not, but still being fond of it. I saw it the same week as I saw Coco, and as you know of me, I am a real emotional sucker. Like the bull's eye that if you can hit it, I will be weeping for quite some time is grandmother's stuff. And like, not to spoil the movie for everybody.

That's like me with sibling stuff. Yeah. When it locks into place, I was a weepy mess. And, yeah. Yeah. All right, very good. I think we're going to close the book. We love you.

Send us some swag. Yeah. Not to be like send us some swag, but send us some swag. No, I'm very comfortable being like send us some swag. We love you, focus. We're happy to do this. Thanks for being with us for another miniseries. We still have the MDB game.

Don't go anywhere, but I'm just saying this was a great mini series. Let us know what you guys thought of the focus features miniseries too. Let us know anything that you might want us to do now. year as a miniseries. Yeah. Yeah, because at this point last year, when we had closed out Naomi Watts, I think Focus was already in the back of my mind as something we might do for the next one. I truly don't know what our next miniseries next year is going to be.

I thought of one idea, but it would be, I'll maybe not say it on Mike because I can throw it out to you later in case we decide to use it. Exactly. I had one idea, but it felt like it would be behind the curve, shall we say. Well, now I'm intrigued. We'll talk about it off air. Okay. Meantime, Chris, why don't you tell our listeners about what the IMDB game is? You guys, you guys, I know this is going to be a revelation for you who have been long-time listeners.

But we end every episode with the IMDB game where we challenge each other with an actor or actress to try to guess the top four titles that IMDB says they are most known for. Really bombing it today. If any of those titles are television, voiceover performances, or non-acting credits, like producing or directing, we'll mention that up front. After the two wrong guesses, we get the remaining titles release years as a clue. If that's not enough, it just becomes a free-for-all of hits.

Woo-hoo! I'm doing a game. All right. Yeah, do you want to give her guests first? Yeah, in the interest of radical transparency, I did search out my choice for you while we were talking about our favorite Focus Features movies because I had forgotten

but good for me that I was able to improv. Okay, so why don't I give to you first? Okay. All right. So talked about Joel Edgerton in this episode, one of our previous, this is our second Joel Edgerton film, the previous one that we had done that he is in, He, of course, played Ramsey's in the great, lovingly remembered.

Obviously, everybody talks about it all the time. Ridley Scott movie Exodus Gods and Kings. Exodus Gods and Kings. And Kings. Thank you, Goldie Hawn. Also in that film, as I recall, a lot of makeup on him, was our friend Ben Mendelson, who we talked about just last week for Place Beyond the Pines. So, Chris, I don't think we.

We've done Ben Mendelssohn before, and I think we should. So what focus features movie got you to Ben Mandelson? No, a Joel Edgerton movie. Ooh, maybe that's a hint. No, I went through Joel Edgerton. Oh, I thought you were saying, oh, you pulled it up while we were doing our focus feature. Yes. Gotcha.

I was looking it up while we were doing our focus features. Yes. No TV. But he also did Place Beyond the Pines, which was a Focus Features movie. So when you ask. Yes, true. Very good in that movie. He plays a walking ashtray in the Place Beyond the Pines.

Wonderful. All right. No television, no voice-only work, no producing directing credits. Cool. Rogue One. Full title, please. A Star Wars Story? Correct.

Yes, he is the baddie in Rogue One, a Star Wars story. My favorite of the new Star Wars movies. It's a mess, but I do enjoy it. um sure as hell isn't going to be exodus gods and kings what you uh was it this episode you mentioned animal kingdom i'm gonna say animal kingdom he fucking rules in animal kingdom yes that is correct cool um also opposite to letcherton yes hmm see there's a lot of small stuff or stuff that people hasn't seen haven't seen like um what's the movie where he wears the giant fur Coat, Slow West. Oh, Slow West is good, but they're not wrong when they titled it Slow West, but yes. I'm not going to guess that, though.

There's a lot of those kind of movies. I am going to guess Darkest Hour, where he plays King George. Doesn't he have a lisp in that movie, too? Well, he has a stutter, but yes, I think also maybe a lisp. He always kind of has a lisp. King George had a stutter, but I think that he plays him also with a lisp. Yeah, I mean, Ben Mendelsohn does kind of have a little bit of a lisp. So I think, yes, it came through in that for short.

But unfortunately, Darkest Hour, not one of his. Okay. He's also the big baddie, and I would probably guess second build in Ready Player One. Yes, he's in Ready Player One. You got it. I didn't think you were going to get that one. Yes, so you have three of the four, you only have one strike. Ready Player One is like, I realize there's people that defend that movie. but, like, I can't abide.

I think he's, like, third build in Captain Marvel, even though he's buried in makeup, so I'm going to say Captain Marvel. Took me that entire, maybe to the end credits of that movie to figure out that that was him, but no, not Captain Marvel. So two strikes. Now you get the year of your missing movie. The year is 2012.

So shortly after Animal Kingdom, this is when he was getting cast in a bunch of, of small bits would have been the same year that Place Beyond the Pines at least premiered. Correct. He...

I wonder if Bloodline was going on during this. Well, that's a TV show. It doesn't matter, but it might help me place it. 2012. Oh, no, no, no, no. Wait.

He has a small... role in Dark Night Rises. Very good. Dark Night Rises, yes. He's one of the people on the plane at the beginning, or am I placing him wrong? He's like that. I think he is like a flunky, but was his name on the poster? No, it wouldn't have been on the poster, but I remember him as being in that movie. Yes. Well, anyway, yes, you got it. Oh, no, I'm looking at, now I looked up images from him in Dark Night Rises. He's in a suit he's in a boardroom in a suit so he's

maybe one of the way yeah yeah he's a bureaucrat there's somebody who's on the the plane heist in that uh in that film is that's the one where they there's like a takeover at Wayne Enterprises for no reason right and he like leads it or something I think that's right I think there's a whole

like Wayne Enterprises bullshit in that there's a lot going on in that film I will say um okay great thank you for Ben Mendelsso for you I went down the very long list of people who have

also played Mothers to Lucas Hedges. Oh, no. Surprisingly, we've done most of them, but perhaps even more surprisingly, is this one that we have not previously done on the IMDB game, is Francis McDormand.

Interesting. Recent four-time Oscar winner, Francis Dormon. So wait, Oscar winners who have played Lucas Hedges' mom? Just actresses. who have played Lucas Hedges's. But like, particularly Nicole Kidman,

Julia Roberts, Francis McDormand, are there any other Oscar-winning actresses who have played Lucas Hedges' mom? Uh, hold, please. I will try to... That's still five Oscars among the moms of Lucas Hedges. Unless we forget, Elaine May played his grandmother on Broadway.

Oh, he was in that play, huh? That's interesting. Also, Elaine May, like, praised the hell out of him, too. So Elaine May is... Elaine May write a movie for Lucas Hedges to Star and Challenge. Absolutely. Remember the news that Elaine May was going to direct a movie with Dakota Johnson in it? No.

And I was like, this is never going to happen, but I want it. Yeah. Throw Lucas into that one. All right, Lucie. I'm going to go through his filmography really quickly. All right. Let's not forget that Merrill is his aunt in Let Them All Talk. Right.

Oh, Michelle Pfeiffer, who has never won an Oscar, but still. Never won an Oscar, but still his mom. Yeah. In French Exit. Obviously, Gretchen Mall has never won an Oscar, but, you know. Gretchen Mall. Famously, his mom in Manchester by the Sea. And which actress played his mom on the slap?

I don't, nobody, because he's not one of the kids in the family. He's a friend. He's like the gay friend of one of the, of, I want to say maybe, Peter Sarsgaard's daughter or something, but I don't think he's any of the, like, canonical children in the slap. Sure. Also, he was in the, how do we get our hands on this footage pilot,

Noah Baumbach's pilot of Jonathan Franzen's directions. Oh, my God. So technically Diane Weiss counts. I say that Diane Weiss counts. So that's two more Oscars. So really, that's a cash of seven Oscars among the women playing Lucas Hedges'

his mom. That's amazing. Well done. Wait, who is he in Labor Day? Probably some random kid. Isn't he like a bully in Labor Day? He's not the main kid. He's not the main kid. Okay. Well, then fine. Because I was going to

say, if he's Kate Winslet's kid in Labor Day, that's another Oscar. All right. Anyway. Okay, you have to guess Francis McDormand, though. Right. Okay. So, well, Fargo. Fargo. And three billboards.

Three billboards. I'm not going to say Nomad Land quite yet. I'm not ready to pull that trigger. But what else? Almost famous? Almost famous. Can you get a perfect score for Francis McDormand? All right.

I'm not going to give you a hint, but there is a hint I could give you. Well, don't. All right, so we can throw out, I'm not going to guess the Transformers movie she was in. I'm not going to guess Miss Pedigrew lives for a day, or Madeline, or Mississippi Burning, although that is another Oscar nomination of hers, or probably not North Country. Probably not burn after reading, but is it another Cohen's movie? Is it like a Raising Arizona-type joint? Watch it be, Nomadland, and you're just like cackling internally right now at my misfortune.

What a jerk you would be for doing that. I know. We have fought a lot. this episode. I'm not going to be a jerk to you in this game. All right, all right, all right, all right. I'm just going to guess No Man Land, because if it is Nomad Land, I'm going to kick myself for not guessing it. It's not Nomad Land. It's not. No, fuck. All right. Well, now the pressure is off from me getting a perfect score. Okay. Um, what's a, like, big Francis role that, like, is, like, nice and prominent.

and she's like a very well-known and popular like man who wasn't there is too small, obviously unlike Hail Caesar it's too small of a role again I'm going to say Moonrise Kingdom

It is Moonrise Kingdom No shit! The hint I almost gave you was It's both a focus features movie and it's a Lucas Hedges movie. And it's a Lucas Hedges movie. That's so funny. Well, I almost wish you hadn't because I could have used that in my next trivia round

where I do photos of people in the same movie and then what other movie were they both in together? That would have been a good one for Francis and Lucas Hedges. If I ever form one with you, I am absolutely going to do around people who have played Lucas Hedges' mom. No, that'd be a good one. No, you're never going to do that because I always want you to play trivia when I give trivia because you're very good at it.

you are don't deny i am but like i i have a i have at this point a uh a like key into your mind that feels vaguely unfair well then but then i want to throw curveballs your way so that's also good um also you haven't won trivia yet so it's not unfair until you win um yeah i'm not gonna piss anyone off until i win sure right exactly all right that is our episode episode, and that is our miniseries on Focus Features. We hope you liked it. If you want more of This Had Oscar Buzz, you can check out the Tumblr at this had oscarbuzz.com. You should also follow our Twitter account at Had underscore Oscar underscore Buzz. Chris, where can the listeners find you in your stuff? You can find me on Twitter and Letterbox at Chris Vee File. That's

F-E-I-L. Yeah, I am on Twitter and Letterbox both as the same name. Joe Reed, Reed spelled R-E-I-D. We would like to thank Kyle Cummings for his fantastic artwork and Dave Gonzalez and Gavin Mavius for their technical guidance. Please remember to rate and review us on Apple Podcasts, Google Play, Stitcher, Spotify, wherever else you get podcasts. A five-star review in particular really helps us out with Apple Podcast

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Just for you Yeah, I bloom I bloom Just for you I bloom And just for you Come on baby Play me like a love song

Every time it comes on I get the sweet desire