This Had Oscar Buzz - 148 – Concussion

Episode Date: June 7, 2021

Finally, we are telling the truth! In 2015, Will Smith took on another biopic with Concussion as Dr. Bennett Omalu, the forensic pathologist whose research on chronic traumatic encephalopathy experienced by football players found opposition with the NFL. After premiering at AFI Fest, the film received middling reviews and opened on Christmas Day only to … Continue reading "148 – Concussion"

Uh-oh, wrong house. No, the right house. I didn't get that! We want to talk to Mel and Heck. war with a corporation that owns a day of the week. No proof was presented today because this simply isn't anything. They have to

listen to us. This is bigger than they are. What do you think they're doing to you now? That's nothing. You have no idea how bad this could get. I have to keep going. They want you to say you made it all up. If they continue to deny my work, men continue to die.

Sometimes in life, You're asked to leave it alone. Or sometimes you can't. Who are you? Tell the truth. Tell the truth. Hello and welcome to the This Had Oscar Buzz podcast, the only podcast that Troy Savon blooms for.

Every week on This Had Oscar Buzz, we'll be talking about a different movie that once upon a time had Lofty Academy Award aspirations, but for some reason or another, it all went wrong. The Oscar hopes died, and we are here to perform the autopsy. I am your host, Chris Fyle, and I'm here, as always, with my favorite Super Bowl halftime show, Joe Reed. Yes, I am your uncomfortably, realistically filmed Destiny's Child starring halftime show.

I was going to say, you are the Super Bowl halftime show that everybody is wondering if the other members of Destiny's Child will show up. Yeah. I'm excited, Chris. I'm excited to tell the truth in this podcast. I was going to ask you, we do have something really important to do today. What is that, Joe? To tell the truth. We are here. We are here to tell the truth today. We're truth telling. We are, we're just truth telling is what we're doing. What about that crossover event of the century? Where was that when we needed it? I'm sure some errant homosexual has made that. are you kidding me we are the first two homosexuals in history to see the film concussion are you absolutely kidding me

like there is no possible way that exists yeah but everybody knows the tell the truth clip that's true that's true are we we we know our truth but not our facts so we don't need to see the film to grab some pop culture effemir from it that's very true

that's what gay culture is knowing our truth but not the facts yes yeah that is gay culture Exactly. No, but just a complete stare-off between Will Smith and Meryl Streep. Yeah. Tell the truth. I'm just truth, Tom.

Tell the truth. It just goes on for like two hours. Honestly, listeners, first person to make that for us gets a shout out on the podcast. Yeah, yeah, we would love that. Joe, just before we move on to concussion, quick RIP. eulogy to our focus feature's mini-series that we just ended last week. Five films of fire is what we did for our beloved focus. I had a very good time.

Five films of focus. I'm going to buy you boys some beers. Buy you bunch of boys some beers. That's another crossover event that probably should have happened is Claire Foy and Sir Jessica Parker. That one far more up the alley of our people. yes um but we're back to normal we're back to the normies very much like a uh reset because we kind of backlogged our focus stuff and now it feels like uh we're we're back to just full

normal episodes and normal conversations we could not have picked a less focus featuresy movie to return with too where it's like the bowels of studio filmmaking like Sony pictures, which, like, sometimes doesn't even bother to, like, put an actual studio imprint on the thing, and sometimes you're just a Sony. I always feel bad for the movies. Well, this one goes into Columbia. We do have a net Benning with a candle. That is true.

But I feel like a lot of these, sometimes it's just, like, oh, it's Sony pictures. I'm like, is that even really a thing? I, like, anytime I see the Sony logo, I always expect, like, a five-disc CD changer to follow. Do you know what I mean? Like, that's sort of my mental image. And what will our children say when we try to describe five CD changers to them, Chris? What will they, how will they wrap their minds around the concept that not only were their CDs? A five CD changers?

Yes. Like, do you remember how fancy the people you knew with a five CD changer were back in the day? I was always like, wow. The ease of use, the luxury, the, um, uh, and sometimes they had a remote control that they They could just, like, hit a button and you change to the next CD, the absolute height of luxury. No CD changing just vibes. You could just lay back, listen to your five CDs in succession. You could plan the order.

If you ejected all of the discs at one time, it was, like, tiered, and it's like, go off queen. Thank you, Sony. I also feel like the people who had the five disc changers were also, like, the same strata of people that I knew. Like, you only knew one person growing up who had a Laserdisc player. I feel like that was the rule, right? You couldn't really know.

I didn't know anyone with a Laserdisc player. I knew one person with a Laserdisc player, and we never utilized it. It was, like, their parents or whatever. Like, they used it, but, like, we never made use of it. And... My only experience with Laserdisc was an Earth science class in high school. Oh.

The evil teacher that I had, who hated me probably, because I am homosexual. The enemy of earth sciences in every way. Yes, exactly. You are a water sign and not an Earth science. I am a water sign. Are you really?

I don't know what the water signs are. I'm bad at that part of fake astrology. You know, like, we've all decided as gay people that astrology is real. I think I was absent the day that we were told what water signs are and also how to calculate your um your uh rising sign i don't know that either uh you well you need your birth date and your uh birth time and your place i can make i can i feel like we're all like running on lies then because really

how many of us truly know what our birth time is like at some point our parents are just like my birth certificate do you really yeah i don't have my birth certificate my birth certificate it has a time right there my parents have it somewhere in a box and i trust that to hold on to it. I've never had my birth certificate. I don't trust myself with my birth certificate. Are you kidding me? I, you know. I was born at 149 a.m. The latest I have ever been awake.

My mom always is just like, yeah, sometime in the like one o'clock in the afternoon hour. I'm just like, okay, whatever. Anyway. Anyway, to move us right along from that, I am a cancer's sun, Sagittarius Moon, and a Torres Rising.

And we are here to talk about concussion. But as I was saying, just in terms of like the bowels of studio filmmaking, like, this is a movie that's like, it's so studio that it was talked about in the Sony Hacks. Like, I feel like that's my measuring stick

for if you are a studio film. I didn't even realize it was in the Sony Hacks until doing my research for this episode. I just feel like we're constantly still finding out the shit that was in the Sony Hacks because it was everything. Because it was too much for anybody to read

comprehensively. And we only wanted, like, the juicy parts. We only wanted the parts were like people were being a bitch or people were being, you know, mean to people, or like Amy Pascal was acting out or whatever. But I'm sure it touched a lot of, I mean, there was probably stuff about every movie that Sony had coming out in that era. So. And what it is for concussion is that they softballed with the NFL and diminished it because the NFL is an incredibly powerful financially solvent organization and they would have buried the movie even more. I mean like I remember at the time there was like pushback to this movie and like we'll get into how how like strongly worded of an email this movie.

is or not. So I read the Deadspin article that sort of detailed the ways in which the film had supposedly sort of softened itself. And I think substantively, I don't think there's much there, actually. Like, with the ways in which they talk about things that were taken out, that were in the script that didn't show up in the movie, a lot of it is in the movie in another form. Like, I don't feel like, I don't feel watching this movie when I watch this movie again yesterday. It didn't come across to me as anything that was soft-pedaling it. I think the movie really does make a pretty flat-footed case against the NFL and against the NFL for stonewalling this information and against Roger Goodell. I think sports media at the time and continuing now,

but especially at the time, like really wanted a film that was going to like rip Roger Goodell's head off and dance on his grave, which like fair. But that the movie didn't, I think a lot of the stuff that came out of the movie where they would mention like, you know, that there was a paragraph that or a line of dialogue that said this about the NFL. And it's just like, well, yeah, but that's that, oh, that the Arlis Howard character in the original script called him, called him a quack. And in the film, he says something else. And it's like, yeah, but then quack is said by the Dave Doorson character in a different scene. Do you know what I mean? It's like that kind of thing.

It's a lot of minutia of dialogue that could have just as easily been cut anyway for like narrative clarity. But I don't think this movie goes easy on the NFL. I really don't. I think it pins it more on Roger Goodell in a way. It is very happy to have like a boogeyman stand in for the NFL without. Here's the thing. And I like, I kind of like this about the movie, but it's like we're all sitting here like, fuck the NFL. We want to like see this movie. really take the NFL to task. And I think where the real kind of like sometimes it goes there, but it, you know,

it's not confrontational enough for me, maybe, is that it actually kind of goes for football culture and like the masculinity ingrained in that in American society and how toxic, like, just football culture is and not specifically the NFL. And like the thing about the thing about NFL is they have the power to do something about it, right? They have all this money. They could have whatever, but like the movie doesn't really go for that point. And I think I was kind of

struggling watching it. I mean, there's the Albert Brooks scene where he's, you know, essentially, and the thing that was the scene that was in all the trailers and commercials where it's just like they own a day of the week, a week, a day that used to belong to the church. Like, I feel like the film, I feel like the film does put that across, that the sense of how much power the NFL had and how much it was bringing down to bear on silencing, you know, these findings by Dr. Will Smith. But, I mean, and you and I sort of come at this film, I think, a little differently, or else I'm probably more, not tormented by this, but sort of like there are, I think I'm probably the Gugumabatha Ra to your Will Smith, whereas I'm just like.

as I want scorched earth. And I'm just like, but look at the games. They're so, like, they're so, you know, fun to watch and whatever. And you're just like, fuck all of this forever, make it all go away. I'm like, who cares? Some of us care. I will say, for as much as, you know, and again, I try and be as clear-eyed about this as possible. And about, you know, I come down on the side of tell the truth, actually.

feel like that sort of motto with this was just like, let's be as honest as possible about this. Let it, let's, you know, ultimately is professional football too dangerous a game to play? Maybe. You know what I mean? Like, honestly, maybe, as is, you know, is professional boxing too dangerous the thing to take part in? Maybe. But also from the other side of it, I can't deny the sort of emotional component that comes from it being a part of your culture and family.

I sound like a gun supporter now, but like whatever. It's a thing you grow up with. It's a thing that, you know, binds you to your community and family and that kind of a thing. And it's hard to, you want to find a way to keep people safe and as safe as possible. And to give them the informed choice to, if they're going to play this game to play the game with as much you know

information as possible that kind of thing and ultimately maybe it is still too complicated and I wrestle with that I do well I don't think that the movie thinks that any of the things that you have said are bad things like I mean I think that the movie kind of takes those

in stride but what it's really trying to do and you know what the like television truth about it is, is like, also that it is very, what is the problem and what is, like, at the core, at the root of this, like, awfulness of what is happening to all these players is, like, male indoctrinated brutality. Like, I think of those scenes, the best scenes in the movie, and, like, I wish that it hadn't glossed over them a little bit, because I'm like, I can see the movie that I think is the most

effective. And you see these coaches like telling them to their players to like be brutal and be violent towards each other. And it's all rooted in this American culture that expects like brutality and aggression and violence out of men. And that is indicative of what makes them men. And I think when the movie is like talking about like, like football culture and what this means to people emotionally is like it never quite gets to the point. It just kind of leaves it there for you to pick it up or not that it's also rooted in a lot of heterosexual men's trauma that like my problem with it just like leaving it there for you to pick it up if you want to or not is that like I think there's a lot of audiences that are going to like brush past that and I think that's ultimately the point of the movie. Yeah, but I also feel like those same audiences, if the movie's more strident about it, they just, they tune it out entirely then. Do you know what I mean?

I feel like this movie at least does a good job of being as even-handed about the emotionality of what football means to people in the country and doesn't, like, it does, again, I feel like that Googumabatha Raw character was there just for me, where it was just like, she's just sort of like articulating things from my end, which is like, I get that I am. very small sliver of the demographic here, where it's just like queer yet football. You know what I mean? What if queer but football? And it's just like a photo of me and Gugu Mabathara's character from this movie. And not that she's queer, but she's Gugu Mabathura. She's honorary. If it means hanging out with Gugu Mabathorah, I might watch a football game. Right. Right. Exactly. I don't know. I just feel like it's not quite a biopic.

of Dr. Amalu, but to, if it's going to, you know, if it's going to go there and try to have some resonance towards people's emotional ties to American football and still prove his point of all of his scientific research and how dangerous the game is, I don't think it strikes the right balance. I think it's a little bit more towards passive. those audiences than, you know, getting them to actually challenge their belief system than it could be. I think ultimately what you're trying to say in all of this, Chris, is that this was an incredibly intuitive choice for a Christmas Day opening film. Exactly. Like, just it's a no-brainer.

You open a film that is challenging, you know, your notions about... Star Wars. Right. Right. Exactly. Like, it blows my mind. And part of it is like, I guess part of it is just, is the Will Smith thing where it's just like, well, it's Will Smith. People want to go see Will Smith on Christmas.

It's during football season. Football will be on their minds. It's just like, I guess that, like, that to me is crazy, but maybe that's the thinking process. Like, he had a hit with I Am Legend in September, and it's, or in December. And it's just like, okay. But, like, this is dumb. This is a dumb idea, you guys. Please don't do this.

It's the weirdest Christmas lineup of movies. It's like you can tell that everyone was terrified of how much money, and rightly so, how much money the Force Awakens was going to make. And it ends up being, at least in terms of ranking, Will Smith's worst opening. It opens in seventh. It made slightly more money than Ali. Wait, worse than seven pounds? Go look up the box office of seven pounds.

Seven pounds. I'll just pull it up. Seven pounds, I think, opened in second place. No way. I feel like a- Yeah, exactly. We made fun of it in our episode where it's like nothing finer to see

with the whole family on Christmas than a man who... That was also Christmas? By Christmas season. It was like... I forget everything about our episode, about seven pounds, honestly, except for the goddamn eels,

the electric eels. Or jellyfish, sorry. I even forget the jellyfish because I called him electric eels just that. Whatever, whatever sea creatures, he uses to kill himself in that movie. It's not how that works. So it doesn't matter what it actually is.

Yeah, seven pounds opened in second place with $14 million. Holy mackerel. But all, but like that movie seems far, far more forgotten than Kinkug. Maybe it's the recency thing. But I don't know, because I feel like, I think with seven pounds, the thing that's interesting about it, everybody was kind of like hushed tones about because you had to really see it to know what was in the same. insane about that movie. Whereas, like, concussion, like, tell the truth is in all the, is in all

the ads. So at least, like, we remember that. We may not, you may not have seen the movie, but you remember tell the truth. And honestly, good. He's very good in this movie. I think this movie is, is ultimately pretty middling in terms of a film, in terms of, like, a film accomplishment. I think Will Smith is very good. I think the supporting cast is actually really good. I really love Helbert Brooks in this movie. And Albert Brooks, who basically only has to deliver, like, lines that convey information that are necessary to move the plot along, and he's not really a person. But he's great to watch this movie. No, I would push back at that a little, because I feel like all of those very, very functional lines get filtered through this kind of Albert Brooks translator, where it's like he's in a scene where he's essentially just telling Dr. Romalu that he's,

He's telling the truth. He's telling Dr. Amalu about how, you know, what they have to do now that the FBI is railroading him. And that's, and I don't know whether this was, I mean, I'm sure it was in the script. I'm sure he didn't improv this. But, like, you don't write a line like, my balls are low if you're not writing it for Albert Brooks. Do you know what I mean? It's just like, only Albert Brooks is going to be able to deliver a line like that. And I'm just like, that's why I'm happy he's here for that kind of stuff.

And I feel like he peppers a lot of his dialogue with just this very, very, very. Typically, Albert Brooks kind of, you know, menchy world weariness, which is just, like, perfect. Right. Okay. So maybe talking about the movie makes it makes me like it a little less. But I came away from this movie, really surprised that I actually kind of liked it a lot, even though the active problem for me is that you can see the version of the movie that is so much better. And to me, it is the very strident, as you put it, a scorched earth version of this movie.

And, like, it feels like it would probably respect Dr. Omalo more to, you know, lean into the, his research and, like, that and contextualize that and make people actually grapple with that. It does feel like the movie sort of rests on the laurels of this sort of continuing theme throughout the movie of like, Dr. Amalu, you're a real American, you're more American than any, you know, anybody else here. And just sort of this like the culture clash of it all that this Nigerian-born doctor is sort of taking a hammer to America's best beloved pastime. And I like the irony of that, but I feel like the movie really seems to be determined. to sort of pat him on the head and be like, you know, you're more American than all of us. And it's just like... It's one of the weaker aspects of the movie.

I will say that. And it's, um... Yeah. A smarter movie, I think, would be able to, like, balance that in a way that was smart, whereas this one kind of glosses it over in, you know, these, like, kind of sweet greeting card. It feels a little condescending when it, whenever it sort of emerges.

And a little... And dated. Yes. also that yeah but like that being said like I was with this movie way more than I was expecting to be and like it had you seen it before I hadn't you hadn't okay and I had but like very much like I think I was mainlining end of the year movies that year when I watched it you saw it in between some random animated movie that was shortlisted and Trumbo and Trump yeah basically You said Will Smith is really good in this movie

We have to talk about the best actor race this year Because it's so abysmal But we'll get into that later Let's do the 60 second plot description Let's get it over with We can unpack more of the movie We can talk more about Will Smith's performance Once again guys

We are here talking about concussion Written directed by Peter Lannisman Based on Gene Marie Laskis's GQ article Game Brain movie stars, the legendary Will Smith, Gugu Mabotha Raw, Albert Brooks, sent his low-hanging balls, Alec Baldwin, David Morse, Mike O'Malley, Arlis Howard, Eddie Marsen, Adiwale, Kinyue, Agbasha, and Luke Wilson. That's Roger Goodell.

Sorry, you forgot Paul Reiser, who shows up literally for half a second. It was the wildest thing. Very strange. I couldn't even put that in there because why. You can definitely tell there's some, like, left on the cutting room floor type of things. Got to be. Gotta be. Yeah. Very strange.

Movie premiered at AFI Fest in 2015. We will get into that. And then opened wide for everyone in the family on Christmas morning. What did you want to do when you woke up Christmas morning? You wanted to unwrap the truth about concussions. That's what you wanted to unwrap. Yeah. You wanted to tell the truth.

You didn't want to tell the fantasy. in a galaxy far, far away. Why would you want that? No, why would you want that? Why would you want space adventure? You didn't want to go learn the truth about mops. Please tell me that there was somebody who was really wrestling

with Star Wars or concussion or joy. Like, I want to talk to that person and, like, find out how they made their decision. Well, Star Wars was sold out. Yeah, that's how it starts. That's the beginning of that discussion is while Star Wars was sold out. Yeah, exactly. And then they wanted to see Joy, but what's the, I'm not going to get this joke.

But what's the other Christmas thing? It's like joy and silver and gold something. They haven't seen the original. That was going to be the joke. I failed. So then they saw concussion. There is a Christmasy phrase that's like something in joy. tidings

They hadn't seen tidings They hadn't seen David O. Russell's tidings All right yes We made it

We made it to the end of that joke Chris We got it We got there We got there Joe are you ready To tell the truth

I am And give us The plot Description of concussion I am We'll see How much time

I take up With this But yes Joe read Your 60 second Plot Description For Concussion

Start now. All right, Will Smith plays Nigerian-born Dr. Bennett Amalu, who is working as a pathologist in the Allegheny County Coroner's office, where he's tasked to examine the dead body of Hall of Fame Pittsburgh Steelers football player, Mike Webster, who had died after a prolonged struggles with mental illness. O'Malu becomes fascinated with the Webster's

case and discovers evidence of severe neurotrauma due to the impact of playing football. Amid the deaths of two other former football players, Justin Strelzik, and Andre Waters, O'Malu and his colleagues, including Albert Brooks as his boss and Alec Baldwin as the former Steelers Team Doctor, published their findings about chronic, traumatic, and suppulopathy or CTE, with Amalu stating that it was playing football that damaged these

players' brains and led to their deaths. This, as you can imagine, leads to massive pushback not only locally from football fans, but institutionally from the mega-powerful NFL, which seeks to silence Amalu. He and his wife are harassed, leading to her miscarriage. Albert Brooks faces trumped-up fraud charges from the FBI, and Amalo eventually has to leave for another job in California. It is only several years later when former Chicago Bears player David Jewerson kills himself after his own mental degradation and leaves a note saying he thinks Umalu was right, that the tide begins to turn. And Amalo is vindicated and the NFL is forced to begin to reckon with itself, even though in the post-script,

former players like Junior Seo continue to die, and that is the truth of the night. I gave you a little more time because I missed your 10 seconds. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. A lot of postscript was rough. That post-script was essentially just like,

and it's still happening, which it is. Like, it's a big problem. And it's, it's, it's incredibly sad. Which is why you need a tougher movie. probably i don't know i mean yes i think it's i think it's a tough needle that this film is trying to thread it's trying to be a movie for as many people as possible to see and to convince and i think i think it shows i think the stuff that it shows with the players is frightening and scary and impactful. I really do. And I think it's something that that's the angle that's going to get you to

sort of not turn away from this. And I think it was good and right that they used all the players' real names that they didn't do. I don't know. I'm sure the film, as every film does, does have composite characters. But with the football players, at least, these were all the real football players' names. And the David Moore's scenes are upsetting. They're all upsetting. The Justin Strelzig seems are upsetting. The fact that they used, I'm pretty sure that's the actual footage of his car crash. By the way, a stretch of the New York through way that my parents drive on a lot when they're driving to visit my aunt and uncle. He, I had learned, which I didn't know beforehand, was from West Seneca, New York, which is like the suburb right next to where I grew up, and, like, played high school football locally and was like driving to Orchert's. Park, New York, when he was, when he drove on the wrong side of the throughway and crashed and killed himself. And so, like, it's, it hits, I mean, whatever, like, everybody's, every, every, every football

fan is going to have some sort of different connection to one of these cases. Unfortunately, every, no matter who you grew up sort of watching team-wise, you're going to have some sort of a connection to a player who has suffered from this in one way or another. And it's impactful. And I don't know, I get what you're saying where you wanted this to be more strident and more hard hitting. As somebody who grew up a football fan and is a football fan, I think it is impactful. I think it is, I think it works in a lot of ways. I don't think this is a perfect film. I think ultimately it is probably too pedestrian. But I think it hits hard when it needs to, is my feeling.

Yeah, and, like, I don't want to be the person that's like every movie needs to be about toxic masculinity, but, like, the better parts of this that I feel like it's giving an actual cogent thought and isn't this, like, glossy issue drama movie that you've seen a million times are the things that point out a lot of the toxic masculinity within the football culture where. it's like you have someone saying he's going to vaginize football. Yes. Which is such a like sports talk radio. It's like you can you can hear that on the air and a sports talk radio like anywhere in America right now. Yeah. Yes. I ultimately don't think Peter Landisman directs the film as precisely to like really kind of get those things to register.

But like that's when you, for me at least, you saw the glimmer of the like best version of. this movie. Yeah. Or at least the version of the movie that speaks hardest to you, which fair. Or the one that is the least familiar to this type of issue drama slash biopic style movie. Because that's part of what sunk this movie is how even, you know, it's a specific issue that there hasn't really, we haven't really talked about on screen, but like it does feel familiar to a lot

of other movies. Yes. it does and and yet by doing by placing the NFL in the role of the same kind

of antagonist that you would put like a shadowy government yes PG&E is a great example thank you yeah yeah yes I think you are

sort of playing on the cinematic memory and sort of literacy of people who watch movies and They, like, you can, you know, oh, like, the NFL are the villains. The NFL are the sort of big behemoth bearing down on this one individual, which I think is effective.

How much that works. I will say, for, there's a part in this movie where, uh, they tell Dr. Amalu that, like, you have to name it. You have to name this thing. And I think the, the subtext there is if we're going to get people to pay. pay attention to this, we have to package it, essentially. And then so a few scenes later, Albert Brooks is talking to Will Smith, and he says, uh, the, what is the full name?

I said it in my thing and I already chronic, traumatic, encephalopathy. And Will Smith is just like, yeah, CTE. And Albert Brooks sort of just make sort of, is just like, yeah, catchy. Which, yeah, but like, I, like, I, will say that's it's a testament to how much this issue has ultimately penetrated the sports world that like CTE is now a common you know well understood phrase that like the for as much as the NFL still has a long way to go in everything um the awareness of concussion and CTE and uh

whatever sort of protocols do exist within the games to protect against it, whether it goes far enough or not. I think it's a testament to the work that this doctor and all these sort of doctors put into it, that it hasn't been sort of like, it's not too, like, essentially nerdy a term to have penetrated the discourse. Like, it does, you know, it did the job. So. And, like, I just, I think maybe, like, we're coming at it from very different levels of experience. Yes, we are. Because, like, you say, you think it does well of, uh, taking the NFL to task.

Whereas, like, I use PG&E as, like, the obvious example, but I, I, I sense a real reticence on the movies part to really put the NFL in that type of, like, PG&E in Aaron Brockovich position, you know, where, like, they're willing to, the movie is willing to, the movie is willing to, to, you know, make them seem like this nefarious giant entity in a way that I just, I don't see it in this movie. I think it does. I think you see it in the Arles Howard scene. I think you see it in all of those sort of weasily Luke Wilson soundbites. I think you see it when Dave Doerson, the Adiwale-A-Kinue-A-Bajé character initially sort of, you know, runs into Will Smith in the hallway and is essentially just like, you're a farce. you're a quack, go back to Africa, that kind of a thing. And the fact that this is the guy who then later succumbs to these mental ravages and kills himself and, you know, ultimately says that he's right.

But, like, you see how pervasive that denialism was that he was so that he sort of, like, wrote so hard against Will Smith because he was loyal to the NFL and because he was sort of part of that machine. And I think it's reiterated again and again and again that the NFL is, you know, the big, the big bad entity that they, that is constantly trying to crush Will Smith. I don't know. I feel like that maybe, maybe because like I feel like watching the movie, I liked it a lot more. And now as we're processing it, I'm like really kind of honing in on its shortcoming. So maybe I like it less now that we talk about it. But it could also just be that it's not well directed enough that it's like those elements are there, but like... I was going to say PG&E comes from a far, far more compelling film.

And I think that helps. Right. You know what I mean? I think ultimately this movie is directed pretty pedestrianly. Yeah. Everything has this like silver gloss to suggest seriousness. Yeah. And I think it's placing a lot of its expectations.

on Will Smith's shoulders, and, like, nothing around him is as good as he is in this movie. Agreed. And it's not like he's giving the flashiest performance. It's like there's a reason why the tell-the-truth clip is in every trailer or commercial you saw for it on TV because it's the biggest moment in the movie. It's the biggest moment of the performance. Like, I was, because we've turned it into such a punchline on this very episode, and, like, in the culture at large.

Yeah. I was expecting it to be, like, kind of a flub of a scene, and that scene is so good. Well, Smith is incredible in that monologue. It's just, like, one of those things that, like, out of context is so earnest and so, like, punchy that, like, you can't even deal with it out of context. I'd seen the film before, and even still, in my mind,

I remembered him delivering that line in like a hearing, in some sort of like medical hearing or a congressional hearing or something, some sort of more typically grandstanding. Yeah, they're in like a booth in a hotel restaurant. Right. It's him and Alec Baldwin and Arles Howard sort of having this like hush-hush sort of meeting and him trying to convince the Arles Howard character who was essentially representing the NFL to do the right thing and to acknowledge that this is happening and to essentially get on

get on board to help us try and fix this and but it's like but that line has such a you know

you expect it to come in a much more grandstanding package and it doesn't and I think it is the most sort of compelling

piece of acting Smith gives although much of the movie is him playing down his sort of willsmithness his Will Smith charisma, which

a lot of the times when movie stars do that to seem more serious is kind of death, but I think he plays, I think he's quite good and quite compelling in its own doctor or malu way. You know what I mean?

In this movie. But you're right that the film doesn't live up to what he's giving. Yeah, and especially when it's like it has some of the schmaltzier scenes and he's doing He's giving this really understated performance that, like, the schmaltzy stuff, like, I feel like hangs him out to dry a little bit, but they're surprisingly less of that than I was expecting. It's ultimately a much more sober movie, and I think I like that because of it, even though I, in like the personal stuff, I like that it's a more sober movie.

It's not. Yeah. You're always expecting and dreading that Guguma Batha Ra's character is going to be like, you have to stop this because, you're in danger you're putting us in danger or whatever and like that never happens and it doesn't come across great

in terms of supportive wife roles that are so constant in movies like this but it's not as bad as a lot of other examples maybe other movies that we've already made fun of on this episode. Very possibly so

Will Smith gets the Golden Globe nomination for this performance. And this was the year, so this was like, it was all happening this year. This was the Oscar so white year. This was the big controversy over the fact that there were no acting nominees of color in the entire Oscar lineup. This was, due to that, they, uh, brought in Chris.

I always feel like we forget that, like, they brought in Chris Rock to host the Oscars this year as a patch on this, which to me is the cringiest thing of all of it, almost. That that was, like, one of the stopgap measures that they took. It was just like, first things first, let's get Chris Rock up here to, like, stop the bleeding. And it's just like, okay.

And then also, Jada Pinkett sort of boycotts the Oscars. were going to have her present, I guess. Was that the chain of events? I forget if she was originally supposed to be presenting, but she said she wasn't going to go. I remember that very clearly. And Chris Rock kind of like made fun of her in his monologue for it. And it's like, but part of it was also that I think because Will was one of the contenders,

you know, one of the the black acting nominee contenders who didn't get nominated that I think that was sort of her position that was why her position was so prominent, I think, it makes sense. It does.

And also, was that the year of Magic Mike Double XL? 2015, I think so. Yes, I think so. So, like, honestly, and I don't think this was part of her reasoning, but, like, she probably should have been a nominee herself. You know what I mean? That year? Absolutely.

It was never going to happen. It was never in the realm of possibility. But, like, in a perfect world, Jada Pinkett would have been a nominee for Magic Mike double X. Absolutely. Yeah. So all this. We of the homosexual persuasion for saying that at the time, unfortunately, but it's because we sometimes have taste. Sometimes.

The broken clock is right twice a day. So now I want to bring up the Golden Globe field and see who else were the outliers that year. I know now all of a sudden whenever I... I have a hold up so I can... All right. Now all of a sudden whenever I bring up the Golden Globes as a sort of counterpoint to any of this stuff, I'm just like, do we have to stop doing that now? Have they, like, become so discredited?

No, because at the time, like, you know, it was considered part of, like, it's not something we'll probably be talking about in future years when we're in our 60s doing this podcast like too old. Oh, God. We'll be recording it live from Palm Springs or something.

Pool side. These two old gay men. Anyway, no, but like as far as talking about, that's what we do here. We talk about previous Oscar races and like the globes were a part of that. So it's like we have to talk about the history. We've also never been a podcast that has said anything, but the Globes are a sham, and we enjoy them for what they are.

I was going to say, they're a sham that I very much have appreciated through the years, and whatever. We've never, we are not new to this concept. The Golden Globes in the National Football League, two very, very flawed institutions that I have enjoyed very much over my lifetime. I welcome to the death of the globes, but like, let's also replace them with a, a better organization that can get movie stars drunk and hand out trophies. No. Anyway, no, I think I think the talking about past Globes is essential to what we do here. So all five of the ultimate, ultimate Oscar nominees are represented at the Globes. DiCaprio, obviously, this is the big, we got to give Leonardo DiCaprio on Oscar,

or he will die a year for the Revenant. Thank God. We got him an Oscar just in time. It stabilized his levels. and we were able to save... Listen, we saved Liz Taylor with an Oscar, and she was dying. Yeah. Same thing happened with Leo. Obviously, the towering performance

of Brian Cranston and Trumbo could not be denied. That was a nominee. Eddie Redmayne and the Danish girl, Michael Fassbender, and Steve Jobs, who should have won, and Matt Damon in The Martian, who won a Golden Globe,

leading to many, many years of scoffing about the Martian being a comedy. here's the thing, the Martian is kind of a comedy. And so the nominees, all the nominees who didn't make it, it's Will Smith and drama for concussion, and then like everybody else is in comedy. One of whom is Christian Bale for the Big Short, who gets a supporting Oscar nomination.

Because, again, we can't let a year go by without Christian Bale getting a nomination for a movie that, you know, I think the Big Short was better received than certainly vice. vice, but, uh, and even, I would say even more so than American hustle. I think American hustle was far more divisive than the big short was. Um, the big short was, should have been received the way vices received. They're equally horrible movies. I think the big short is a much more entertaining movie than vices. I hate it. It's just like, both of those movies think that everyone in the audience is so stupid and is such an idiot and I think we've talked about this before on the

podcast though. And like, I don't entirely. disagree with you, like, at least at points that movie does take that position. I, as somebody who you could explain credit to fault swaps to me once a day for my entire life, and I would still wake up the next morning being

like, what's a credit to fault swap? I'm the dummy that proves the case for that. I don't think they're wrong to think we're dummies, because we are kind of dummies. Well, it's not but like my feelings about that. It's not just a condescension on

the level of data and knowledgeability. No, I agree. It has a condescending tone. I feel like it is incredibly hostile towards the audience in a way that, like, I'm like, fuck you. Anyway. Steve Carell is also nominated for a Globe for The Big Short in a performance I don't think is very good.

This was sort of Steve Carell's run of him being in things. And I, again, I always have to feel like I preface this, have to preface this by saying I like Steve Carell as an actor, because I do. But, like, Foxcatcher, I think he's the weak link in that. I don't like him very much in the big short. He's awful in Freeheld. In, like, a movie that is not good. Can't wait until we talk about Freeheld.

Steve Carell is by far the worst part of Freeheld. But anyway, he gets a nomination here in lead actor for the big short. And then the two wildest of wild cards. I feel like Al Pacino and Danny Collins was at least predicted by people who, were predicting chaos that they were just like, nobody saw Danny Collins. It probably doesn't exist. But it's a movie called Danny Collins about Danny Collins and Al Pacino plays Danny Collins and he's Al Pacino. So I think a lot of people saw that coming. The one that they didn't see coming was Mark Ruffalo in a film called infinitely polar bear that I still could not tell you

the slightest bit of what it's about or why it's called infinitely polar bear. He's a dad to two young girls and I think he has some type of personality disorder or he's just erratic I never saw it it's supposed to be bad is he bipolar and that's why they call it infinitely polar bear maybe does he like is that like a cutie it doesn't sound like the type of thing you should have a glib pun in the title really doesn't do that it really really doesn't wow yeah oh yeah Zoe Saldon is also in it Interesting. Yeah. So that was one of the great Golden Globes surprises. That was, I think it was that nomination that led me down the road to, and also Maggie Smith getting nominated that same year for the lady in the van, that led me down the road to predicting Helen Mirren for the leisure seeker, perhaps that very next year. Because I was just like, this is what they do. And I'm going to be ready this time. And I was. I was there. waiting at the door for Helen and... Well, infinitely polar bear and leisure seeker

were both Sony Classics movies, and they just knew how to... They'd know how to wheel and feel. Yes, absolutely. Wait, wasn't Lady in the Man a Best Comedy nominee? Am I crazy? You are crazy. It was not a Best Comedy nominee. It was just for Maggie.

Just Maggie. Best comedy nominees that year were The Martian. Insert your Snickers here. The Big Short, Joy, again, classic comedy. spy and train wreck remember train wreck? Remember train wreck as an awardsy movie because everybody sort of assumed ahead of time

that it was Amy Schumer's bridesmaids I don't hate train wreck I think train wreck I like it a lot can be a could have been a much better movie I don't hate Amy Schumer either is the thing like but it's odd it's funny to remember that movie

as being you know a Golden Globe nominee and a massive hit. I mean, yeah. Judd-A-Patow, man. This is a horrible best actor year, though. Oh, we've talked about this before. Legendarily terrible.

Yes. Will Smith is better than everyone except Fastbender. That's nominated. I mean, yeah. Yes. I think Matt Damon's pretty good in the Martian. I don't think Matt Damon is bad in the Martian. I don't think that's a nomination performance.

I mean, like, I think that even just, like, not to reduce it to a single scene or a single monologue, like, awards voters sometimes do. But the tell the truth scene is better than anything Matt Damon does on The Martian. It's probably true. Ironically enough, Ridley Scott produced a concussion and was sort of shepherding that project for a while. I want to see the version that's directed by Ridley Scott. Ridley Scott direct concussion and, and what's his nuts, direct the Martian? Peter Landisman. Yeah.

I remember really, really liking, I saw The Martian at Tiff, and like the Martian is a film festival movie, especially one you see later on in the festival, which is what I did, is like classic film festival counter programming, where it's just like everything is serious and traumatizing and sometimes long and sometimes slow, and all of a sudden the Martian comes along, and it's like zippy and space and adventure and Matt Damon got to, to get back to Earth and all this sort of stuff. And I was just like, yeah, this is what I need. The Marcher kind of changed stuff for festival programming, though, because, like, that was supposed to be a huge blockbuster. And they went to the festivals with it. And, like, that wasn't exactly heard of, of that level of movie. Yeah.

Like, the thought was, like, you don't need to go to a festival. You don't need to risk, like, losing money out of, because you go to a festival and it maybe doesn't land. like you hope it will, but like now shit like Joker goes to festivals and thank you La Grisha Martel for giving it a fucking golden watch. Yeah, yeah.

We'll never get the end of that now. The thing about The Martian, and I do feel like I owe that movie a rewatch now to just sort of like watch it outside of the circumstances of that year and that festival and whatnot is it's a one person movie

essentially that nevertheless casts like a dozen great other actors who then don't get enough to do where it's like it's essentially just like Matt Damon is stranded in space and the movie basically treats that

as the important part and everything else is like secondary to it and yet everybody else was willing to say yes to show up for Ridley Scott Jessica Chastain Jeff Daniels Michael Pena Kristen Wigg

Sean Bean Sebastian Stan Siwatel Edgeo for Kate Mara like Donald Glover I'm pretty sure is in that movie. Mackenzie Davis. Mackenzie Davis, right, exactly. Like, the most amazing Benedict Wong is in the cast,

like the most absolutely amazing cast to essentially show up in a one-man show. It's so weird. It's so weird in that respect. But, you know, I should watch it again. Anyway. Trumbo and the Danish girl are both abominable. We don't need to talk about them.

Yeah. Yeah. I do think Brian Cranston in Trumbo is maybe one of the worst acting nominations of my lifetime. He's really quite bad in that. He really is. It's embarrassed. I think it's an embarrassment.

It's very over the top. I'm maybe saying something that is going to get me banished from the Earth, shuttled into space to freeze in the atmosphere. We will send you to Mars and not send Jessica Chastain to go rescue you. Please send Jessica Chastain to rescue me from literally anywhere. Um, I'm kind of curious to rewatch the Revenant. I would be if I don't remember it being such a punishing experience to sit through. I mean, I remember it being like totally fine. I didn't hate it the way that everybody else hated it. I don't see any. Oh, I don't mean an equality line. I just mean like the actual like stuff that happens in that movie and also it's quite long. But also it's just like it's just there's a lot of.

Like, brutality and violence and bleakness and, like, grossness. And it's just like, I'm not eager to re-experience that. But I think on a qualitative level, I agree with you that maybe I would like it better. I have maybe the gayest entry into, I need to rewatch the Revenant. It's because I just rewatch the birdcage. And Lubesky shoots that movie. And I'm like, he was doing all of this shit back in the mid-90s. These, like, long tracking shots, like, the opening shot that goes from the beach into the club.

I'm, like, this, like, stitching of all of these multiple shots to make it look like one shot. I was like, he probably did this better in the birdcage than he did in the Revenant. And I'm just curious to see if my theory is right. Boy, pitch that article to somebody, Chris, is the comparison of Emmanuel Lubeski cinematography. And they don't take them on. From Birdcage to the Revenant. Yeah. nobody wants to read that anymore we've we've heard enough about it i don't know i would read it

all right what else about concussion do we want to talk about there's a lot uh it premiered at the afi festival which used to be afi used to kind of be like the last festival of the season where it's like late arriving movies would show up where they're like they don't even have credits on Selma because they finished it so last minute and they premiered it there the same day that American Sniper played and now it feels like AFI is switching more towards the also rands of the season granted this AFI closed with the big short the big short did well I'm pretty sure the big short was a movie that like was just done late but they They played this.

They played the 33, the Chilean minor movie. Oh, wow. And then the opener was by the sea, Angelina Jolie's By the Sea. Which we, there was a lot of ultimately justified skepticism about that movie going in. Yes. I feel like it was on everybody's Oscar predictions with sort of 12, grains of salt there where everybody was just like, well, we have to put it on there because it's Angelina Jolie and Brad Pitt, and there's going to be a lot of, you know, heat on it.

And if it is good, you know, it will be hard to deny that because awards voters will, you know, be very aware of it. But I don't think there was a whole lot of confidence that it was going to be very good. And ultimately, I think it's a more interesting movie than it is that it gets credit for some time. I think it's a little fascinating. To see if I like it more. It has a lot of defenders that think that it's really, really great, and I've read speak really smartly about the movie that's made me

want to reassess it. And like, if we ever did it on this podcast, I would want, like, someone who loves the movie to come and defend it. Yes. I agree. Because, yeah, I would not be, you know, looking to just sort of like dunk all over, you know, Angelina Jolie, but I did not think that movie was great.

Again, I think it's interesting in parts. I think ultimately it doesn't stick with you as much as you would want it to, but they sure were by the sea. Like, they did not lie. They were definitely by the sea. Yeah. So,

thoughts on Alec Baldwin in this movie The accent is It's weird right A journey It evolves throughout the movie Yeah It's like he ages into his dialect

It's interesting that he does this movie The Year After Still Alice Where he does seem to be making a tour Through different degenerative brain conditions In support of awards contenders my god um yes i don't know i mean they mentioned early on said alzheimer's a bunch in this movie and alec baldwin being right there i'm just like i'd rather be watching still alice well i mean still alice is a great movie it's a great movie we are noted defenders of that movie um my feeling about like

this supporting cast is like there's never quite enough of them and like to really kind of register like obviously albert brooks gets to talk about his balls but like sure does alec baldwin is the bigger role right i feel like maybe it could be more impressive if it's not someone like alec baldwin who shows up and does the thing that they do all the time you know um i want better for gougu mabotha raw well yes supportive wives because like with excluding beyond the lights what like as we were getting on mic We were talking about Beauty and the Beast, where she plays, a feather duster. Listen.

And come on, like, better for her. So, upcoming for Gugu Mabatha Ra, well, she's going to be on the Loki series, so money in her pocket. Better for Gugu Mabatha Raw. I don't care. She's not going to be on, well, she's actually, she's credited on at least, on IMDB on at least two episodes of the new season. of the morning show, even though, listen, spoiler, but you've had your chance to watch the first season of the morning show.

Her character dies by the end of that first season. So that's interesting. I wonder if it'll just be flashbacks or if she'll be a ghost haunting their consciences or whatever. I would love that. I would watch that show for that. Ghostly Gugumabatha Ra haunting Jennifer Aniston and Reese Witherspoon.

Yeah, that'd be rad. I can't wait for season two of the morning show. Juliana Margulies is also joining this season. I'm very excited. I'm very excited. Yeah, not a ton on the horizon for Gugu. She's in a movie where she plays a Scottish, Scottish-Jamaican nurse during the Crimean War. Eh? Eh? You in?

Opposite, wait for it. Sam Worthington. Oh, no. Are you impressed? Are you excited? Oh, no. Yeah. Remember Sam Worthington? You will because apparently we're going to be getting him every year. We're going to be getting five of them if they ever show up, which I'm still dubious about. Anyway, yeah. I'm going to be excited for Avatar too. I'm going to be excited for Avatar too. I will let you do that. If that makes me not cool. Oh, okay, first of all, all right, everybody on film Twitter has decided to be.

Avatar positive. Like, you are not in the, I am among the, like, dumbasses who, you know. Who are you talking about? All of the, like, I feel like, I'm on a silent when I'm like, whatever, guys, we can make fun of this, but we're all going to go to Avatar 2 and enjoy it. Our friend Katie Rich is very James Cameron positive. Our friend David Sims is very Avatar positive, as is Griffin, like the whole like blank check milieu is very. avatar positive. I feel like that's like... I guess I'm just not in that milieu and I'm more in the milieu of withering homosexuals. Yeah. Yeah. But they're all

dumb-dums and I'm with him. So... You are a proud dumb-dum. I'm a proud dumb-dum. Yeah. I don't want it. I don't care. I don't want more avatar. Whatever. I'll probably end up... I want T. Winslet to show up an Avatar 2 with absolutely no CGI, just in that outfit with those underwater wing things. Cannot wait for that. That's true.

It's Kate Winslet. I'm not going to be able to avoid it. God damn it. What if Kate Winslet shows up in Avatar 2 as mayor? I was going to say what if Kate Winslet shows up in Avatar 2 as Trish? Avatar 2. As the water spirit. You have said this before and I lost my mind.

Avatar 2 is Mayor of East Town 2. Mayor Vitar of East Town, yeah. Mayor of Pandora. That's where, that's what they go searching for something in Avatar, and they end up in East Town. Boy, it's, well, it's, because we know that the following avatars are going to the oceans, right? So, Marr is going to help them solve the problem in the water. Oh, my God, fuck up. Listen, Sigourney Weaver's character would appreciate a wah-wa hoagie is what I will probably say.

Yeah. I've never been to a wah-a. That's what it is. The Avatar goes to the Wawa. I've never been anywhere with a Wawa, and I feel like now I need to experience that. It really is a concept that I just have no, I have no whatever of. Can we talk about how Concussion is a pretty good Pittsburgh movie? I love, I mean, we know I love the city of Pittsburgh.

but I like Pittsburgh movies, and it's a good one. What are your favorite Pittsburgh movies? You love Pittsburgh a lot. A lot of happiest season was shot in Pittsburgh. It's very noticeably Pittsburgh. Beautiful Day in the Neighborhood is a good Pittsburgh movie. I feel like it's something that's happening more and more. They must have good tax breaks, but I mean, there's obvious reasons that a beautiful day in the neighborhood is shot in Pittsburgh, but it's just happening, man.

It's a cool city. List of films shot in Pittsburgh. Let's see. Oh, wow. They're starting me with the 1890s. I don't care about movies that were shot in Pittsburgh in the 1890s, friends. I need to filter. Let's see.

What do we have? There's just a lot of stuff that I have not heard of. Okay. My Bloody Valentine 3D. Oh, Adventureland, which is, I guess, I imagine, shot on the outcome. skirts of Pittsburgh, but that's fun. I do love Adventureland. Silence of the Lambs

is very noticeably Pittsburgh. Oh, is it really? Even though it's supposed to be Baltimore or whatever? I think they shot that movie just everywhere. I am number four apparently. Not what I think of when I think of Pittsburgh movies. Perks of being a wallflower is very

is very Pittsburgh. Is set in Pittsburgh. Shboski I think still lives in Pittsburgh. Nice. I like that movie. it's a fine movie it is me and earl and the dying girl is apparently yes that is very Pittsburgh yeah not a good movie but very same year as a concussion they were really Jesus remember

the expectations on me and Earl and the dying girl yes I do that summer that was a very instructive of okay but also I remember that Sundance where there being a lot of expectations on me and Earl and the Dying Girl. And then almost immediately there was this like counterbalance of remember its festival fever.

Like there was, the skepticism was there from the beginning even as the expectations were on it. And I think the expectations persisted, but I think once the movie opened, there was not a whole lot of leeway given to that

movie to you know, I think once there was blood in the water with that movie. Everybody was just like, a failure. And I think there's going to be a movie this year that it happens to again, and it's going to be not the movie's fault, but everyone else's fault. Are we going to have

another conversation about how you hate Coda? Are we going to do this again? I don't like the movie, but I also think people are setting that movie up for failure. I don't think that movie has that much expectation on it. It's an Apple TV Plus movie. You know what I mean? I mean, we'll see when it comes back around, but

like, everybody treating it like the second coming was is going to hurt that movie you are knives out knives out to cast member curse file for coda um i will be playing i will be the person playing guineth paltrow this time this time it's me playing gwyneth paltrow at long last um can we talk about uh multiple nominations for concussion at the m tv movie awards yeah i mean the kids loved it the kids The final vestiges of the MTV movie awards before it became, what the fuck ever. The wildest thing to me about this is that Will Smith is nominated and also loses to Leonardo DiCaprio for the Revenant. He really...

The MTV set loved the Revenant, apparently. What the hell? I mean, it at least makes more sense to me that the MTV set would have watched the Revenant than they would have watched Concussion. I mean, the Revenant did make a lot of money. The Revenant did promise, like, a big old bearer. attack like that sounds at least like fun to watch yeah what were the other big winners god best action performance went to chris pratt am i looking at the right year maybe i'm not looking at the right year is it Jurassic world Jurassic World is that the right year is that

then you're looking at the right year yeah all right concussion is also nominated for true story which they did a whole story that's just true story not outstanding not best but True story, on top of doing a documentary prize, the winner is straight out Compton, cool, awesome, nominated against the wildest set of movies that is just like, this is just where they put Oscar movies, that's just what they did. Concussion, the big short, joy, Steve Jobs, and noted true story famously about real life, The Revenant. Wow. Yo. Guys. I mean, I know that it's based on some dude, right?

But, I mean. So, Will Smith was also nominated that same year for the most prestigious MTV Movie Award, which is Best Kiss. He and Margot Robbie were nominated for the film Focus, a film that least less remembered than concussion. Oh, and somehow, as if that were possible. and yet, like, absolutely nobody, nobody talked about focus at all, even though it was, like, very widely advertised and, like, opened wide and, like, was, you know, meant to be a big crowd pleaser, and nobody saw it. So, this is a pretty grim state of affairs for Best Kiss. So Margot Robbie Will Smith for Focus, don't win. Aforementioned train wreck, Amy Schumer, Bill Hader, is fine.

I don't really remember that movie or that particular storyline. It's a happy ending. It's a fine kiss. Leslie Mann and Chris Hemsworth for vacation. I've not seen that version of vacation. I'm going to assume it's a comedy kiss

because probably, there's probably some sort of shenanigans happening there. It's going to be a pass on me ever seeing that movie. Ryan Reynolds and Marina Baccaran for Deadpool. I can't remember whether that was a comedy kiss or whether that was part of Deadpool's like we're going to be very sexually explicit.

Also kind of for comedy. I have to imagine it's the scene where I turned off the movie because I was like, wow, this movie hates women. Does she peg him in that movie? Right? Yeah. But no, she pegs him and says like

Happy National Women's Day or something. Oh, right. Because they fucked for every holiday that year or whatever. God, I did not care for Deadpool. What a misogynist movie. So the film that should have won Best Kiss that year, by all logical measures, is Dakota Johnson and Jamie Dordman for 50 Shades of Gray. It was all there. The storyline's right there.

The narrative is right there. It's 50 Shades of Grey. It was a huge hit. It launched, you know, careers. It's a very sex, like it's, you know, a very sex forward movie. Everything would be pointing for that to win. But no, we can't even. even give Dakota Johnson an MTV

movie award for that. Instead, the winners were Rebel Wilson and Adam Devine for Pitch Perfect 2, another comedy kiss. Death to the Comedy Kiss winning Best Kiss at the MTV Movie Awards. I really feel like that's a problem, and we don't talk about it

enough. Comedy kisses killed that category. I'm just going to say it. They should all be... Did you see, either last week or the week before, once again, it was making the rounds, the clip of Rachel McAdams and Ryan Gosling winning Best Kiss that year. And they recreate the thing. And it's genuinely like the hottest thing I've ever seen

in my entire life. And that's what we want. That's, that's the ideal. That's ultimately what we should all be chasing in life and also in MTV Movie Awards. Like that. And instead, I don't not, I don't want Adam Devine and Rebel Wilson winning for pitch perfect too. Like, get the fuck out of here. Get the fuck out of here. It's also, I mean, like, it's a comedy kiss thing. but it's also this like I don't even know what word to ascribe to it but it's like these people who are not considered

conventionally attractive ha ha they kiss like it's not even that it the kiss itself is funny so it's like it's just this whole toxic thing his character being attracted to her character is played as funny on its face because she's fat Amy

it's like so I much as I really loved pitch perfect I thought Pitch Perfect 2 was abominable, and I never saw the third one. Minus Haley Steinfeld and the Jesse J. song. Sure, I will give you that. Anyway, she... Just this for Flashlight.

Charlize Theron wins Best Female Performance, also at the MTV Movie Awards that year, which is exactly right. Like, that is... She wasn't getting nominated by the major award shows. She was good enough to have been in that conversation. Mad Max Fury Road Obviously was a big Oscar movie But that's the kind of movie

That MTV should also be super going for And she's absolutely the correct winner Of uh Well and I think she only got a critics choice nomination For that movie Which makes absolute sense That like that's the one group that would champion her Yes

But yeah that's where that's what we should have an MTV movie awards for And whatever it's now devolved into a half television thing and we you know whatever their their cultural relevance is behind us but not at all yes anyway all right what other odds and ends about concussion before we go into the wrap-up um it is a very well placed in the mid-a-auts because when will smith and goo-gou mabatha raw go out on a date and they go dancing uh move your body plays iconic song movie body I definitely

recognized it although I had to shazam it when you said before we started recording that we were going to need to talk about move you body I my brain went this guy's move your body my brain went directly to Tyra Banks's shakeya body which was of course

her inescapable hit song everybody remembers move your body which they filmed a music video for in the second season, sorry, second cycle of America's Next Top Model. So in the video for that are people like Yawanna, who won that season, and Mercedes, who was second place that season. And I'm trying to remember who else, perhaps Camille, who had a signature walk that season. Is this the season where the girl cheats on her boyfriend? yes shandy shandy was almost certainly in that music video yes yeah that was the big sort of that's the reason to watch season two cycle two cycle three is the best one cycle three is the one with eva and yaya and Amanda who conceived her child at the exact moment of 9-11 and who had crystals and who was going blind and um and carving clean your shit

to, in the pan of brownies, which Yaya correctly pointed out was a lack of respect for the house. God, that's such a good season. Yaya, a national institution, Yaya. Absolutely treasure. You're out of your mind, though.

The best season is the Danielle Jade Joni season. Just because they had dental work as a major storyline for like an entire episode. No, that's an amazing cast. And Jade is one of the finest reality television characters ever. Jade's out of her mind. Yeah, it's true. That's another clip that resurfaces periodically is Jade filming her cover girl commercial

where she walks through the party. Beautiful, wonderful, fabulous. It's so great. It's so good. Not a single word escaped her mouth in that entire season that wasn't absolute gold. She'd really, she'd belonged on RuPaul's drag race before RuPaul's drag race existed. She's the first one to say this is not America's next top best friend. Yeah, it's true.

And it wasn't. It was not in America's Mexico best friend. Yeah. How did we get on America's next time? I'll shake your body, right? Yeah, so move your body. Move your body. Yeah.

It's a good time. Listen, the way you write it, girl, makes the fellas go. Yeah. Many, many good memories of being out and about and hearing that song. Should we move on to the IMDB game? Yes, why don't we? Why don't you, sir, tell the truth to our listeners about what the IMDB game is? I will.

So the truth of the matter is that every week we end our episodes with the IMDB game where we challenge each other with an actor or actress to try and guess the top four titles that IMDB says they are most known for. If any of those titles are television, voice-only performances, or non-acting credits, we mention that up front. After two wrong guesses, we get the remaining titles release years as a clue. And if that's not enough, it just becomes a free-for-all of hints. because I'm going to tell you the truth.

That's what the IMDB game is. Would you like to give her guess first? Well, I'm going to give first. No, I'm going to guess first in that way. My thing is, for whatever reason, I suspect that we may have chosen the same person, even though I don't really have a ton of evidence for that, other than you saying your choice was surprising

that we haven't done this person before, and that's how I would describe my choice as well. Oh, and you pulled someone that we haven't done and it surprises you? Did you perhaps pull the preeminent, truth teller among us all. Oh, no. So we chose different people. Okay. Oh, okay, good. Yes, since we've been doing truth tellin, I am, of course, thinking of Meryl Streep doing truth tellin in August Osage County. Okay. We're doing Meryl Streep. Joe. Wow. That's your challenge. So,

Meryl is interesting in that there's not going to be a whole lot of, like, we're not going to have any movies in her IMDB known for that are going to be like, oh, I wouldn't have even thought about that movie. The problem is she's got about 20 that you would think of for that. I also think the thing about Merrill because we know all of the

Oscar stats on Merrill is if, once it gets to the years, I think it'll be quick to put down. Oh, well, yes, yes. All right, so, but I'm trying to think of like, put myself into the psychology of the IMDB algorithm as to where,

where it would come out. I'm going to, my, my number one choice, I think, as a convergence of she got an Oscar nomination for this, it is widely popular, it's on television all the time, and we talk about it all the time, devil wears Prada. Devil wears Prada, correct. Okay. All right. I think the challenge of this is how many can you get before I give you the years. Yes, I think that's right. I think that is the challenge.

okay so in that same vein because it's semi-recent she got an Oscar nomination for it I feel like it's in the ether a lot Julian Julia fuck okay it spent a lot of time on Netflix recently yeah in like recent years

so that's not a bad guess so here's where we start to wonder if anything from like the 80s creeps up. Like, as something like Sophie's choice, because she won an Oscar for it, enough to crack her top four. Same thing with Kramer versus Kramer. Because the other side of that is her more recent stuff.

Oh, you know what? It's going to be, Iron Lady is going to be one of them. No, not the Iron Lady. I think that is a wild guess, but no. So your years, your three years, are, 1982, 1985, and 2013. Okay, so Sophie's choice was one of them.

Yes, Sophie's choice is 82. 1985 is out of Africa. And the very lame out of Africa. 2013 is August Osage County, which I was going to guess after I guessed Iron Lady. I'm surprised. August Osage County shows up for everyone. Yeah, it's true.

I am surprised about Iron Lady because it's her most recent Oscar win, and it would be guaranteed to make us angry. And that, to me, felt obvious. that there was going to be something in there to make us angry. I guess August O'Sage County. I think the one that makes me angry is out of Africa. Except that.

Like August O'Sage County is not good, but like it's a known entity in this game. Out of Africa, I just like, maybe it's that I don't like Robert Redford as an actor the way that everybody else does. And I don't think he is hot in the way that everybody thinks he is. I mean, he's very handsome. He's incredibly handsome. I feel like, I feel like that's a bridge too far. That's like half of the movie. I think out of Africa, for.

so long was shorthand for so many kinds of things. It was shorthand for Merrill's sort of 1980s persona where it was like a different accent every movie and very sort of prestigious and classy. It's also the kind of shorthand for Oscar bait movies in the 1980s where again, you know, stately, classy, long, not taking place in the United States, having a sort of like vague, international, like, uh, what was the, um, oh, fuck, the, the, the, the coffees that were, uh, that they had TV commercials for that, uh, do you know what I'm talking about? The Lauren Pacaal coffee? No, no, no. The very, they were like, it was international, uh, uh, fuck, why can't I mean? International delight? Maybe. Something like that. Where it was just like, it was all sort of,

like, vaguely continental. Do you know what I mean? That, that feels very, international continental delight. Yeah. General Foods International Coffee. Do you remember those commercials? Where it was just like, it was essentially just like... I'm sure I would love them. It was, it was this like very bullshitty product that was essentially just sort of like powdered coffee that you'd like

add water to or whatever. And but it was advertised as like the height of sophistication where it was just like, oh, I can from my little like tin of, you know, coffee powder have a French vanilla

cafe or I could have a cappuccino at home and it was like it was all these like and all the names for the flavors were like Cafe Vienna and whatever and it was just the like faky fakiest method of feeling fancy

and it's just like you look back on it and it's just like so dumb and there were commercials for it constantly anyway. So what you're saying in the 80s is Merrill did not make candle movies she made coffee. She made coffee movies. She made general foods international coffee movies yeah kind of yeah until she devil came along and she started to break out of that um we don't talk enough about she devil being like sort of a little bit

of a good movie but like but a game changer for merrill kind of because it sort of set her on the road to you know her more eclectic 90s anyway merrill yeah you were right once i got the years merrill was going to be pretty academic super easy all right so we went different ways on that i as i often do go down the road of Excuse me, I'm going to cough By the way, coughing in 2021 is like the most fraught activity you could ever

possibly do. Like every single- Especially if you're an empath because you're like, am I going to freak out the people around me by coughing even a little bit? I was at the movies last week. My first movie back was

the iconic Tony Colette horse movie Dream Horse. I went with our... Is your dream horse, boy? He'll make you happy. Friend of the podcast and former guest Rob Shear and I went

and so you're in the movies you've obviously got your mask on and Rob is sitting next to me and I can tell Rob is trying to stifle a cough and watching him experience this and go through this

was like at that moment more interesting than the movie because I could sort of I could sense exactly I could read his mind essentially and it is I don't want to cough in this movie theater and have everybody wonder why I'm coughing and possibly freak people out

and then maybe somebody has a bad reaction to it and causes a scene or whatever and so he's just very much trying to like very low-key just like cough into his mask and just like clear his throat and whatever and I've experienced this sensation on the subway and, like, you know, anywhere where you're, like, indoors and you have a mask on or whatever, and it's just like, I can't cough because, like, it'll cause a stampede or something.

I don't know. I don't know what will happen, but, like, decorum will cease to exist. And it's a whole fucking thing. Anyway, I'm done coughing. I guess I can't cut that part out now. I was initially going to be like, well, I'll cut out me coughing, but apparently not. Okay. So I went down the road of director Peter Landisman for.

His, also, all of Peter Lansman's previous films are, like, in this very kind of journalism, you know, adjacent thing where he directed, Rodin directed Parkland, the movie about the JFK assassination hospital, and which has, like, an insane cast, but it's also, like, Tom Welling and Zach F. and that whole kind of a thing. He wrote the film Kill the Messenger about the the journalist who was investigating the CIA in the, I want to say in 1990s, the one played by Jeremy Renner

in that movie Kill the Messenger, which sort of doesn't exist. Almost entirely doesn't exist. And then he also directed and wrote the Mark Felt movie with... Which is one of the most like... Horridly conceived movies I've ever seen. All I know of it is Liam Neeson with that very, very gray hair. This was about the...

It's a terrible movie. The man who was Deep Throat. Anyway, so in this movie... This played a Tiff, I want to say. I'm pretty sure. Very, very quietly. I don't think anyone saw it there. No.

That was one of those. We should do, like, a mini-series on movies that played Tiff that nobody we know saw. Well, we have to start planning whatever, or... like spitballing what next year we do we do all right but anyway so playing his wife in that film is Ms. Diane Lane who we've never

done an IMDB game on. We haven't done Diane Lane for her? Nope we have not wow okay so Diane Lane known for she has one um voice only performance oh okay yeah yeah yeah yeah

um that is oh shit I don't think I do know what it is I'm going to guess under the Tuscan Sun. Correct, under the Tuscan Sun. Unfaithful. Unfaithful, her only Oscar nomination. Yeah. The DC movies really don't show up for people,

so I'm really hesitant to say, Man of Steel or Batman v. Superman. So I'm going to couch that for a minute. What was the shitty, like, thriller? oh no no no no no she's in the perfect storm a perfect storm it's a great it's a great guess but that's not correct she's robin william's mom and jack she's good in jack i mean it could be something from when she was younger like the outsiders but i have to imagine like we've done all the dudes that are in outsiders before and I don't think

outsiders has ever shown up there there there's one incorrect one that I almost want to throw out there just because we've talked about it in this episode quite a bit um it's not secretary yet

because we are talking about dream horse um wait what was she in though we talked about a bunch in this episode she's trumbos besides Mark felt She's Trumbo's wife Oh, Jesus. Yes.

I blocked that out because I was like, I can't deal with Diane Lane being in this movie. She deserves so much better. Yep. Okay. What am I just going to fall on the sword of? Hmm. Is it like must love dogs?

A rom-com everyone forgot about? Must love dogs. Good guess, actually, but no, it's not must-love dogs. She's in a lot of films with dog in the title, by the way. She's in a film called My Dog Skip from 2000. Frankie Munitz Cinema. She's in a film that I don't think I've ever heard of called Mad Dog Time. No idea.

Seems like it's a crime thriller of some sort from 1996. Yeah, a lot of dog titles for her. Okay, so that is two wrong guesses. It was not Must Love Dogs. Your years for your remaining films are, 1983 and 2015 83 has to be the

outsiders it is the outsiders so weird so that leaves 2015 to be the voice performance yes

what are animated movies in 2015 she in inside out somewhere she is in inside out she's the mom in inside out

gotcha well done very good interesting that's a weird interesting known for for Diane Lane I am surprised that

none of the Snyder verse movies are on there for her I'm surprised I don't show up for anyone yeah it's true but still

I just feel like they're very recent and very you know talked about perfect storm probably would have been a good one

for her her Her IMDB filmography is real interesting as you go through the years. We love Diane Lane. Yeah, she's great. She plays a window flusy in Serenity to perfection. Oh, I should have got Serenity. Serenity.

She was the original woman in the window. She was the original. She sure was. Whenever we have to do a class of whatever, what year are we in 2021? In like the next nine months, I don't really think it's really up for debate that the first 20-21 movie will do as

Woman in the Window. Absolutely. Yeah. Is that our cats'isode? Is that the one where you have to... Yeah, that's probably the next Cats'isode, though it's going to be a year and a half before we do it. That's fine.

Honestly, fine. God, at that point, we'll have been doing this for... We basically have to promise that one to Katie, though, right? She is our preaminent Joe Wright Scholar. That is true. That is true. We'll chat to Katie about that. Yeah.

Though, if that means that, then we have to pull her in for the soloest. All right, guys, that's our episode. If you want more This Had Oscar Buzz, you can check out the Tumblr at this had oscarbuzz.com. You should also follow us on Twitter at Had underscore Oscar underscore Buzz. Joe, tell our listeners where they can find more of you. Can't believe you said Joe tell and didn't follow up. the truth. I don't know what's happening to you. You can find me on Twitter at Joe Reed, Reed spelled R-E-I-D. You can find me on letterboxed

as Joe Reed, Reed spelled the exact same way. I am also on Twitter and letterboxed at Chris V-File. That is F-E-I-L. We'd like to thank Kyle Cummings for his fantastic artwork and Dave Gonzalez and Gavin Mievous for their technical guidance. Guadience. This is me getting a Delco accent, trying it. I say things like You're idiots. Please remember to rate, and I can't, I can't do Delco. Please remember to rate and review us on Apple Podcasts, Google Play, Stitcher, wherever else you get your podcast, including Spotify, five-star review in particular, really helps us out with Apple Podcasts visibility. So tell the truth by giving us a glowing review. It's the truth that it's, we do a job here, I think.

But that's all for this week. We hope you'll be back next week for more buzz and more the truth. Woo! Bill. Thank you.