This Had Oscar Buzz - 161 – The Mule

Episode Date: September 6, 2021

Many of Clint Eastwood’s most recent films have arrived in quick turnaround, going from announcement to filming to release in a head-spinningly short amount of time. In 2018, he had one of his fastest productions ever with The Mule, a story of an 80-year-old man estranged from his family who takes on a job hauling drugs … Continue reading "161 – The Mule"

Uh-oh, wrong house. No, the right house. I didn't get that! We want to talk to Marilyn Hacks and trash. I'm from Canada water. Need help, sir? Oh, officer, hi. You need to help?

No, no, I'm fine, thank you. What do you got there? Peacans. I'm delivering pecans to my niece. Pekans. Yeah, pecans. She makes it worse pecan pie. I feel sorry for her husband, but, and I feel sorry for the pecans, too.

Hello, and welcome to the This Had Oscar Buzz podcast, the only podcast that did not miss 60B. Every week on this head Oscar buzz, we'll be talking about a different movie that once upon a time had lofty Academy Award aspirations, but for some reason or another, it all went wrong. The Oscar hopes died, and we

are here to perform the autopsy. I am your host, Chris Fyle, and I'm here, as always, with that pervy flirt from the flower convention, Joe Reed. Hello, how are you? I'm okay. I'm shaken. I'm shaken. I'm shaken.

by the fact that this movie that we're talking about today got a 70% on Rotten Tomatoes. I'm going to have some things to say. Like, I feel like, I almost feel like there's an intervention in order for people, for their Clint Eastwood complexes, that just, like, I don't know. I don't know. Maybe I'm the one with the complex, but, like, it's so...

I feel the same way. I'm on the same page as you. It's so bizarre, the way that people feel like there is some sort of need to sort of push back against negative responses to the, and be like, I'm going to be the one who likes the Clint Eastwood movie. And all of a sudden, it's like, well, seven out of ten of you decided to make this decision. So here we are now with a movie as objectively horrible as the mule. is 70% on rotten tomatoes with like some like major like shows up on like Richard Brody's best of the decade list like some like particularly like grumpy critics decided that this was going to be the movie that they liked like I just don't understand it and part of it is that he had like a worse movie that happened earlier in the year so there's this like weird desire to balance the scales or something like that like I just I mean, like, I understand the people that, like, have the respect for him to pull out a movie in six months, and, like, granted, based off of some of his movies that he has, like, done in these fast turnarounds, like, the aesthetics of those movies, the terrible scripts of this movie, of those movies, I'll just say, I expected this to be worse in that regard. so like maybe there is a certain level that some of these people are just not willing to admit that they also feel that way and then they were surprised by this well and i think especially with the mule because of the fact that it's like it's based on a true story from like a new yorker a new york times article or something like that really vaguely based on about a 90 year old drug mule for a cartel and then it was optioned for a movie 80s and literally like the fact that like as soon as you hear it

that story and you hear that it was optioned for a movie, your very first thought is, what is Clint Eastwood going to play him? And because that actually happened, it's such a laughable premise on its face. And I think because there was so much, like, before anybody saw the movie, people were dunking on this movie, there was a real desire to, like, push back against. It's the only thing I can explain it, where people just wanted to, like, not be, you know, not fall for the temptation to, like, easily laugh at this movie. But, like, this movie's terrible. This movie's absolutely, absolutely terrible.

And I just, I don't know how to reconcile people with good taste and good reputations thinking otherwise. You know that I am not one to, like, leap towards a bad faith judgment, especially if, like, people I respect. but with this movie it made me like some people who love this movie it made me feel like they want to be like apologists for their racist grandfathers or something this is the thing like talk to a therapist visit your grandfather do something do something besides decide that the mule is a good movie like i don't know i genuinely don't know it's the thing that surprised me about the movie is the mule does like in this weird way try to be a comedy for a lot of it which was surprising but like the comedy made it like that it only underlined all of the things I expected to be bad about it um in the way that the movie is very much like um you know totally fine and thinks that it's funny for him to like say homophobic things say racist things I did enjoy him saying

you're welcome dykes. I feel like at least we have one movie out there where Clint Eastwood says you're welcome dykes. I have a conflicted relationship with us because it's so bizarre that him saying that in that scene with this giant shit eating grin

on his face. Well, this is inherently just so like slams my bizarre so it's funny buttons to me but it is also like the movie thinks it's funny that he is homophobic and and then you have these like apologist people who are like well it's part of the point that it is that he like has all of these biases and it's like

yeah but no it also reinforces all of those biases at every moment in this movie so we're going to delve into it at some point might as well do it now so the fact that this is the third film in 13, no, at this point when it, yeah, third film in 13 years, once Cry Macho comes out, directed by and starring Clint Eastwood and written by Nick Shank, all of which seem to operate on the premise of, I want to rehabilitate the image of the old, racist, greatest greatest generation man through this avatar of Clint Eastwood by like putting him so much in proximity to non-white people that his sort of his unapologetic but like surface level racist attitudes feel okay and quaint by the end of the movie because can't we all

just get past these surface-level differences that we have with each other. Like, the fucking shit. Meanwhile, any non-white person that's around him is entirely a racial stereotype that, like, racist believe, right? Or, like, even if, like, it's the family, the black family where he helps them change their tire. I was just about to say. It's, like, fully emasculating this black man. The metaphorical shit-eating grin on the face of this movie,

during that scene, which is literally like, are you going to get mad at Clint Eastwood for say in the word Negro? He's changing their tire for them. Like, he's being nice to them. He's helping them with their car. And it's like, but you've, like, this is a fictional scenario that you have, like, written from, like, beginning to end

and you have, like, it's just, it's... And all of the dialogue that they say with him is, like, fucking stereo instructions. They're not real... people. Right. I mean, that's true of everybody in this movie who is not Clint Eastwood. So it's like, that's part of another grander problem. But when you have, and it's not like Clint Eastwood's character is all that interesting either. He spends 85% of this movie singing along the songs in his car. Like, it is, it is, uh, Clint Eastwood's unofficial second musical he has ever made. 40% of

the movie is him singing along to shit on his radio. Jesus Christ. And it's all, like they don't make songs like this anymore and it's just and it's like and it's like and i feel like if to like to like this movie to be a you know right thinking critic and like this movie you have to buy all of that stuff as comedic or charming or uh like making some sort of like rye statement about, I don't know, I, like, the, the way that the greatest generation can't seem to fit in this new world full of whatever, whatever. And it's just like, I suppose so. And yet also, you've, like, placed him in the middle of this, like, breaking bad scenario where, like, on all sides are, like, multiple, are, like, whatever, warring factions of this

bloodthirsty cartel, and the only sort of oasis of calm in it is Bradley Cooper, the white DEA agent, who is like, not that corrupt, you know? Well, and he also has Lawrence Fishburn as his boss, who, like, I think is literally billed as, like, agent in charge. Right. And Michael Pena, as his partner, which all feels like insulation around criticisms of, so this is the other thing about Clint Eastwood that I don't understand.

He doesn't seem to be a person who would give a shit about criticism. And yet his movies all seem to be these sort of like defiant postures against the kind of criticism

that would come its way. So like either... So much of this movie felt like a trolling, you know? Yes. But why is Clint Eastwood trolling? Like, is it like wouldn't Why would he care? Why does he give a shit? I mean, it's probably Nick Schenck trolling.

Nick Schenck, who also wrote Granterino, the judge, and is writing Cry Macho. Tell me your Republican without telling me your Republican. Seriously. Tell me you have an amazingly massive inferiority complex without telling me you have an amazingly massive inferiority complex. Tell me you're worried that the world is passing you by without telling me the world is passing you by, like all of that shit. Like, well, it's, okay, to, like, bring it back a little bit to the, like, free pass that this movie was given by a lot of smart people.

I think, well, first of all, like, this movie came at the very end of the year where it's, like, they're probably not watching that much or they're watching a shit ton. So it's, like, it's something a little different. So when you have those, like, kind of blinders on, you may not see a movie for what it is. And, like, we've all fallen victim to him, but I certainly have, you have, whatever. But, like, to give kind of a free pass to even, I think, the ham-fisted, like, thematics of this movie is, like, when, you know, you take it, there's, like, other movies that are that ham-fisted in what they're about, in the moral and the character arc, and, like, so obvious, and they don't get that free pass. And they're also not toxic. So, like, it just... What are you carrying this guy's water for?

Why? What's the purpose? Why does the police would get to get away with these, like, really, like, leaning into tropes, having, like, everybody who, like, gave shit, rightly so, to old for its dialogue this year, where it's, like, everybody explains what their function is to you. Everybody, like, you know, you know what I'm saying. about that movie. Yeah. I wonder who was saying that about old and also saying it about this movie.

Right. Because it is that. Imagine liking the mule and not liking old. Like what kind of a, what, like, I don't want to, I don't want to fathom. Famously, when he gets a new truck

in this movie, he goes to Diane Weist and says, can you believe I found this online? Poor Diane Weist in this movie gets to show up and be like factually correct but she's too mean about it so like we feel sorry for Clint Eastwood and then she then dies so that he can

be redeemed as a good person this movie this movie's relationship with women drove me crazy because you have the angelic granddaughter who is nothing but like perfect and wonderful and easy to dot upon the stricken

daughter who does nothing who is played by Clint Eastwood's actual daughter, who does nothing but, like, go to the other side of the room whenever he enters the room. Allison Eastwood, by the way, who is soon to be facing trial for stealing Lori Holden's face and also a person. I was thinking Monica Potter. I thought Monica Potter was in this movie because of the one shot of her crying in the

trailer. I was like, oh, Monica Potter. Good she's getting paid, but apparently she is not in this movie. Hope she's getting paid elsewhere. Yeah. And then you have Diane Weist, who is like the shrew wife at all times. Right. And the movie understands. The art types of this are so, like, not only are they heavy-handed, but they are so archaic in terms of, like, gender roles.

It's like it wants to be a fucking Norman Rockwell painting so much that, like, no one is a recognizable. human in this movie, except for sometimes Clint Eastwood. This is such a Republican movie. It takes the Diane Weist character. It is fully aware and fully admits that she is right on the facts. She is correct. She has

a grievance against this person, and yet it takes the position of, yeah, but like why does she got to make a big deal of it? You know what I mean? Like it absolutely is sympathetic to Clint Eastwood because she's haranguing him. It like, it focuses on his hang dog expression.

he's so sad about it he's so sort of like beat down about it and like if that is not the perfect sort of just like yeah but like you know why are you making a big deal of it why do you you know why do you got to care so much why you got to bring politics into everything it's such a it's just it's so fucking obnoxious and and pleased with itself in that way and it's such a troll it's such a troll of a movie i feel bad for being mad about it because i feel like i Because it wants us to be, it wants us the, uh, left-minded people to be mad about all of these things. Or anybody younger than 65 years old. Like it really, just like it really, the kids today of, of it all, and he's just like, he's so opposed to, like, using a cell phone.

Like, you know who uses their cell phone more than anybody I know is like my mom and her sisters. You know what I mean? It's just like, this is not a kids today thing. Yes, this movie's relationship with the internet. It thinks the movie, it thinks it is so funny because he is an old man who literally scowls and, like, grumbles, internet. It is just like, it thinks that's so funny. And I know, like, smart people who I respect who also thought that that was the wildest, funniest thing for this movie to do. And I think it is sad?

I mean, something. Very bad. I think it is bad. And it's just, like. Like, you know, and I think, you know, for the type of audience member, the type of person that this movie is for, like, while the movie is, like, structuring itself, like, it's supposed to be funny that he thinks the internet is distrustful. Like, even if the, like, people who are, you know, who relate to this character would go and see this, it's not, they're going to laugh at it, but it's also going to reinforce their worldview in a way that I've. found to be incredibly toxic. Yep.

Do not disagree. So, guys, we're talking about the mule. I feel like at this point, our listeners are going the full, Goldie, damn, you're mad, huh? To our Laylene, I'm a damn good mother rant. That is such an insanely specific reference. I'm not even going to clarify it. If you know, you know.

Yeah, yes. this like yes did i come in hot on this movie yes did i have a bad day and picked the wrong fucking day to watch clean eastwood movie yes sorry about it here we are here we are on a sunday afternoon talking about this piece of shit movie um yeah but we're here to brighten each other's day hopefully sure by jogging on there's also a tropical storm happening right outside my window right now so like it's really it's all happening The mule. The mule.

The mule. It's a mule. It's about a mule. I would have watched a movie about an actual mule. I would have watched first mule instead of this movie. I would have loved it. Mule enter the lamb, the cinematic universe, is what I want. I would love to see an animated movie where Clint Eastwood voices a mule.

I'm sure that exists. I would be shocked if that doesn't exist. No, I want mule to be like the sequel to Pig and Lamb. Like pig, lamb, mule. That's what I want. Yeah. There's an, oh, well, there's the Andrea Arnold Cow documentary. Also that.

I thought I saw something else that there is another one. I want it. I want it to keep happening. One word, barnyard animal. Keep it coming. I want to see Cat starring Maggie Smith. I said, I made this joke on Twitter a few weeks ago, but I was just like the Hollywood producer are in charge of this entire new trend.

And it's just Charlotte up in Charlotte's web. She's just making all the calls. She's greenlighting all these movies. Yeah. Cronenberg's Spider came out at the wrong time. It's true. It's really true. Not a movie about a spider, but it's called Spider.

It is. It sure is. So, yeah, we're talking about Kleeney Switz de Mule at long last. The Buell. With cry macho, right around the corner. Oh, cry macho. I don't want to...

I'm putting you all on fucking notice. Thank you. I'm putting everybody on fucking notice. If there is a wave of low expectation good reviews of cry macho because you don't want to be the person who's dunking on a very dunkable movie, I have got my eyes on you. I am waiting. I'm waiting in the tall grass for you.

We see you. We see you. You're not fooling anybody. All right. Anyway, it's the mule. Let's, since we've already kind of dove and dived, Dave, Dave, we dave into that plot we daved into the

mule let's get the 60 second plot description out of the way and we can keep talking about the nuance of this movie because there is a lot going on that like we can talk about and we can talk about this Oscar race. It is kind of fascinating Clint's campaign relationship to Oscar at this point.

But guys The Mule directed by Clint Eastwood written by his good old friend Nick Shank based on a New York Times article by Sam Dolnick starring Mr. Clint Eastwood, Diane Weist, Bradley Cooper, Taisa Farmiga, Michael Peña, Lawrence Fishburn,

Allison Eastwood, our second Allison Eastwood movie after Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil. Definitely missed that, Clint Eastwood. Clifton Collins Jr., Ignacio, and Andy Garcia. And Andy Garcia as... Who exits the movie, getting shot in the back, How dare you do that to Tommy Bahama?

I was going to say, how dare you do that to Fernando? Now he can't be in Mammothria. It is a shame. I don't think, I think part of the, I need to go back and watch Barb and Star again. Sorry to spoil the joke for anyone who has yet to see Barb and Star. But first of all, how dare you? What the hell else are you doing with your life? How dare you?

Go watch Barb and Star, one of the best movies of the year. Andy Garcia. turning to the camera and saying, I'm Tommy Bahama. That's great. The absolute funniest joke in a movie in years. It's great. But the Mule, after starting filming in June of 2018, opened wide December 14th of 2018. This movie got filmed in a half a day.

We'll talk about this, because this is the thing that drives me crazy about Eastwood. That I do kind of want to discuss. But yeah, opened against the Spider-Verse. Anyone who saw Spider-Verse instead made a better choice. Yeah, I'll say. Or any of the other films in the Multiplex that were not this or Green Book. That's the one thing that it's like, you know. That's true that this was the same year as Green Book.

The Oscars chose, you know, Best Picture winner that is also a pretty racist. But they overlooked the Mule, which is pretty racist. Yeah. Anyway, Joe, you are tasked with giving our listenership a 60-second plot description of Zemul. Yeah, I didn't make any notes, so I'm fully free-balling this one, so I don't know. We'll see how far I get. Well, I mean, you know, podcasting is not a visual medium, but good to know. We'll see. We'll see how it goes.

Anyway, Joseph, your 60-second plot description of the mule starts now. All right, Clint Eastwood is an old-ass horticulturalist who has alienated his family by never being around for them. One day he shows up at his granddaughter's engagement party. She's the only one in the family who is still nice to him. He gets yelled at by his ex-wife played by Diane Weist. And as he's leaving, the seemingly only other Latin ex-person at this party, this engagement party, also happens to work for a drug cartel. So he offers Clint Eastwood a job

as an unwitting drug mule driving shit across the state of Illinois and because he'll never be suspected by the cops because he's old and white and cool. And so Clint Eastwood embarks upon a lucrative career running drugs across Illinois for a cartel. The cartel gets very violent, things get bad. He's pursued by a DEA agent

played by Radley Cooper, Diane Weist dies. He gets redemption by being by her bedside, and finally he ends up getting arrested by the DEA and goes to jail. Goes to jail because he won't take a plea bargain, or he won't allow his lawyer to defend him on the merits because that's, I don't know, queer or something. Like, there's so much stuff. Yeah, he has to actually go to jail to be a good person. There's so much greatest generation posturing in this movie where it's just like, I could. I could allow my lawyer to try to defend me, but that would be... I have to do the honorable thing and say that I do... I got to stand up as a man or whatever.

And it's just, it's so obnoxious. Whereas you could also be like, you know, if you make that decision, I mean, if you make that decision, it's just another example of you in a long chain, abandoning your family. Right, right. Yeah, congratulations. Now you're leaving your family again. To go and grow flowers, which is what you've been doing. your entire life so it's not like you're making an actual sacrifice you're doing the shit that

you like to do anyway it's just behind fucking bars i don't know um oh this movie opens at a day lily conference which like seems kind of lit like that could be fun let's go i mean clearly he's like flirting with all the ladies and wearing his little bow tie in his little hat or suit like a handsome man like i do like in that scene i was like what the fuck is this what aren't watching. He's obsessed with flowers. You're very Alyssa Edwards. You're very Alyssa Edwards. What the fuck am I looking at on this day? Like what is? Very much that. He's like flirting with old women in there. And then

once like you hop forward in 12 years in time when he is like disgraced and no longer can go to day lily conferences, I actively wanted to be back at that conference every minute of this movie. I mean, it certainly was, I mean, that's what an old person would be doing right now, so cool and good for that person. That was the only part of this movie where he sort of reminded me of my one grandfather who was sort of, would have dressed that way and would have sort of, he wasn't a flower grower, but he had his little, you know, things that he would do with his, you know, his little Parkinson's support group, which I really enjoyed. And, yeah, it was nice. And then the whole movie turns into breaking bad, but with an even older white person. And, yeah, I did think it was, again, not to, like, seek out racism at every turn, but, like, really, truly, like, the one brown face in that crowd at that wedding, at that rehearsal dinner. Oh, yeah.

Just happened to work for a drug cartel and offered him a job. I was just like, this is real convenient and cringy, and it's not the last time that that would happen. But I think this movie bothered me more beyond just the sort of quiet racism, you know, of its both plot. Yeah, I don't think it's so quiet, but yes, absolutely. Well, I don't necessarily mean quiet, but it's, I think this movie. It's just had a constant low simmer throughout. movie knows it's being racist and feels like it's being benignly racist

and in a way again talking about you know helping the black family who can't change attire change attire and it's really trying to make this point of just like yes he just said a bad word yes he just said that all Mexicans look alike yes he just like you know

yes it just made a punchline out of him saying one word in Spanish isn't it funny right but like but why why are you taking that so seriously when like he's you know he's working with these people he's helping these people he's you know actually interacting with these people and stuff like that and it's just like yeah but like you're asking for credit you know what i mean like you're you're asking for credit on behalf of this man to i don't know this this movie seems to be really arguing for like

shouldn't we respect you know this man for his lifetime's work of yada, got, yada, providing for his family or being a veteran or, you know, any number of things. And shouldn't we get over the fact that he can't change with the times to... Well, I think a movie can have that argument if it actually presents

human beings and not these like archetypes or ideas of people. You know, like this movie is not smart enough to make that argument in a real substantial way where it's like we're talking about an actual like person. You know, it's like

it's the like every female character is the idea of a certain type of woman instead of being a fleshed out character he even though like we spend enough time with him that he feels like a more fleshed out character he's still the idea of an 80 year old behind the time

veteran you know it's like it's like you can try to make that argument or you can do it in a cogent nuanced way if you're presenting actual characters there's also the fact that like this movie

feels very it just feels poorly thought out in ways that are not even offensive the idea that the whole premise of this movie is that they hire him to be a drug mule because nobody will ever suspect him of being a drug mule because he's an old white man

for that to be your premise he sure does get pulled over by the police a lot just so you can have little scenes of tension where you're hoping that he doesn't get caught. But it's like, if the whole idea... Where he pulls out the Ben Gay to throw off the scent for the drug dog. Right. Which is like, I guess that's like

a cool little moment of like, you know, writing... I thought it was supposed to be funny. We see the Ben Gay label and we're supposed to laugh at that. Well, and also, and it's supposed to be like, you know, we're writing him, you know, getting out of a jam or whatever. And it's like, okay, cool, but it really does kind of damage the premise of your movie, this idea that like, why does he keep

getting pulled over? Why does he have to keep like talking his way out of these things if the whole idea is that he's an old white man and old white men are never pulled over by the police? Like well and then when you do see a not white man pulled over by the police the script asks

him to say like statistics of how oh it's such a bad scene again like what are you trying to do with this moment right here Are you trying to be informative to your white audience or are you literally it's literally reducing a person to statistics? It's Nick Shank being like some annoying asshole on Twitter with spouting statistics about, you know, non-white people getting pulled over by the police.

So I'm going to put these like facts and figures into this person's mouth because like he's not a person. He's just a stand in for a, you know, something on the internet. It was something in the culture that annoyed me. Do you know what I mean? Like, again, this is a Clint Eastwood movie that really feels like it's on Twitter all day. And it's really annoying for that. Yeah. The upside is we will maybe never have to do Grand Torino now, and I would love to never see that movie.

Grand Torino is like so similar to this movie in a lot of ways, and not just because it's also a Clint Eastwood movie that he stars. in that he's playing a certain type of character. Like, the characters are reasonably enough different. Like, in this movie, he's playing a somewhat amiable person. And in that movie, he's playing, you know, a cliche grouch. But, like, Grand Torino is

maybe the worst version of this movie to me because, like, that's what made this movie such a big, like, question mark throughout the 2018 season is because it had this really fast turnaround and like critics didn't get to see it until very late they didn't end up like campaigning it all that much which like we can get into but like you hear all these stories and you read these interviews with the stars of Clint Eastwood movies and it's like they talk about like he's really economical on set doesn't like to do a lot of takes doesn't take long with setups and such and it's like yeah the movie yeah you can tell they end up looking

like shit. Yeah. And, like, Grantorino is one of those movies for me. I was surprised, surprised that this movie wasn't. It's not really that visually interesting, but at the same time, like, it doesn't look as clumsy as some of his later movies that he does on these really fast turnarounds have looked to me.

Yeah. I mean, I don't, it's not like I hate all Clint Eastwood movies. There are some, there are some that I, don't. There are some that I like better than, I think, the general consensus is. I feel like the worm really turned on Mystic River after a while there, but I find that to be a very watchable movie and a very sort of, you know, engaging film. I think letters from Iwo Jima is pretty great, actually. But like... I mean, Bridges of Madison County, like, people kind of... I think there's, you know, it definitely has its fans, but like, I think in the wider, certainly more

male critical establishment people do kind of still look down their nose at that movie like it's some like just some average because it's Clint Eastwood's chick flick and but like it's so much more than that and like it makes me really like question Clint Eastwood as like kind of a humanist filmmaker because like it moves to these emotional rhythms that are so like human and easy to invest in And, like, it digs really deep into this huge well of feeling and this empathy for these circumstances and these, like, the tough decision that Meryl's character ultimately has to play and, like, the weight that it, like, carries. And it does it so incredibly well that, like, you look at a movie and it's emotional stakes and, like, it's emotional nuance like the mule and think that he's being lazy. Like, right. I mean, like, not to call a man who's still directing and starring in movies in his 80s, lazy, but, like, he's just not making movies that are interested in going as deep, even as, like, a Mystic River, which, like, I have problems with, but, like, that's an incredibly handsomely made movie.

Right. And I think even a movie like American Sniper, which I didn't really like. And despised. But that is a movie that I think doesn't necessarily. take the perspective on that character that you sort of expect that Clint Eastwood's going to take. And every once in a while, he's

more thoughtful about certain things than I give him credit for. Which is why I do want to sort of like chalk up the particular odiousness of the mule to this like Clint Eastwood Nick Shank partnership. Because clearly like it's the Nick Schenck movies where like

this real ugliness comes out, this idea that like if only Clint Eastwood, or an old greatest generation grizzled man were around to like show these non-white help these non-white people sort of grow up right which seems to be the premise of crime macho which seems to be like existing on the periphery of certain scenes in the mule certainly that again changing the tire scene uh where like it's not even just you guys don't know how to change a tire it's did your daddy ever teach you how to change a tire exactly which is a real

real particular way of phrasing that. And, and, you know, and that applies to, I think, Grand Tarino as well, where it's just sort of like, you know, you wouldn't be, you know, you wouldn't be these, you know, young little street punks if, you know, you had an old, old man like Clint Eastwood around to raise you right. I don't know. It even exists a million-dollar baby with this whole idea that, like,

you know, she deserves, she's got, you know, white trash parents and Margo Martindale's a nightmare and all this sort of stuff and doesn't she deserve a caring father who will look out for her? A million-dollar baby is a movie that I more so have like reservations about that I think largely and like reservations just beyond that family

in terms of like what it's actually saying about some of its characters and like some of the like cliches that are on the toxic side. I have reservations about that movie but I think it's a good movie. but like American sniper to me is a movie that aside from being Islamophobic talks out of both sides of its mouth and is really blessed to have a really great

Bradley Cooper performance that does I think a lot of the emotional lifting on at least one side of the mouth that it's talking out of yeah Bradley Cooper by the way in this movie is really wasted there well like what is what exists on the paper for this character. Not much of anything. He's very much just like a two-dimensional cop who's on the trail of this guy. And like

in one scene they give him this like half a trait where he's having trouble with the wife back home, but it only exists so that Eastwood can bond with him over his, you know, neglect of his family when he was younger. And I mean, this I guess

is Cooper doing a favor for Eastwood or like Cooper feeling like he can't say no when Clint Eastwood comes calling after everything that American sniper did for did for him but that's why why are we cast Bradley Cooper in such a nothing role I don't understand right the movie was originally supposed to be a Ruben Fleischer movie and like it still feels like it's Clint East would trying to do that type of movie yeah I think you probably would have gotten just because the point of view changes, I think you probably

would have gotten even a better movie with Ruben Fleischer because like the type, it would have probably been an outright comedy whereas this movie is like is kind of a comedy. Talk about Ruben Fleischer for our listeners. Okay, so Ruben Fleischer

is the Zombie Land guy. Also 30 minutes or less. But like these kind of gauche comedies, you know, that are very broad. he also did a gangster squad and um i forgot about that uh we could do a gangster squad episode but the lost ryan gosling emma stone classic gangster squad exactly yeah but these kind of like comedies that like the poor taste is part of the point and you could say that it has a more satirical

lens whereas like clint's version of this movie is like not even a Americana, but like, mid-century American values, right? Where it's like, it's much more straightforward of what it's doing and it still tries to do the comedy kind of it. Like, I think you would have a movie that would at least make sense and be at least less cringy. I think it would be more interested in the other characters besides just one also. Right.

And you have these really good actors playing. You've cast Clifton Collins, Jr., you've cast Andy Garcia, you've cast Ignacio Sericio, who I only know from having been on General Hospital. He was a, as a sort of younger actor, he was on General Hospital. He ended up being a serial killer that he was one of those, like, who was killing all of these people? And too bad to be him. And also Robert Lassardo, who plays the first sort of the boss of that first garage that Clint Eastwood goes into. He was also a scary Latinx villain on General Hospital for a while. General Hospital did not have a good run for a little bit there in terms of...

Yeah, it sounds like... I usually love when you go into soap talk. Yeah. Because it's like, it's just a completely other planet for me that I am fascinated by. Yeah. But it sounds like you're going into some examples that are also not great. Yeah. General Hospital, I mean, not to go into a whole thing, but like of all the soaps,

general hospital is the one that everyone's in a while. while, not every once in a while, kind of for a decade or more there, seemed like it wanted to attract male viewers for whatever reason. And it was, and there was a, the central plot of that show for like a decade or more was this like mob violence, like, the storylines. And I was just like, okay, but like I want to watch the show that's about like, you know, love triangles and secret twins and whatnot, which was what my life to live was doing at the time. Anyway, we don't need to talk about it. It is fascinating to me

Bradley Cooper in this movie doing a favor, basically. Yeah. Or like just saying yes to Clint asking him in the year of a star is born because it's like he probably, you know, locked the cut of the movie, showed up on set,

did his like, you know, three days or however long, even though he's in half of the movie, it took him to film these scenes. I would call the mule Bradley Cooper's Norbit, except I don't think enough people realized Bradley Cooper was in the mule for it to be his norbit. But time-wise, it did sort of coincide with, you know, the momentum for his Astor-is-Borne Oscar campaign kind of falling apart. Yeah. Well, and I mean, he did so little press.

in this year that like it was easy for it to get lost that he was in this movie because like the poster is 50% just Clint Eastwood in the background so it's like it this movie hinged on Clint Eastwood in terms of how it was promoted um but like there was that one profile of Bradley Cooper that really like soured it from the beginning and then like he showed up to events but like he was wasn't doing interviews and such for that movie. And I think that was what, like, contributed to him not really kind of getting arrested in terms of, like, being the frontrunner in that category. What was the big deal with that profile again? I remember it being a big deal, but I can't remember the specifics of it. I honestly can't either. And I forgot to go back and read it. But it was just people being crabby that he was being crabby, if I remember correctly. like he was being kind of evasive and like right right he didn't want to talk about things yeah yeah like said that you know and like it's interesting because like if he'd been like open to talking about at least like the work and like what the work you know meant a little bit more to him too like it could have really done that because I think with a star is born as much as we like still love that movie and I think that movie's going to have like you know know, a treasured status for a while.

I think so, too. It's like, it doesn't feel like we still, we talk about his performance, but we don't talk about, like, the leap that Bradley Cooper had as, like, a filmmaker. Right. And maybe we will whenever his Leonard Bernstein movie is finally made. Right. Listen, Lady Gaga's going to be great as Leonard Bernstein, so. I don't care what any of you say.

Cannot wait for any type of tribute. He will be giving her this season with the house of Gucci. Is he in anything this year that could possibly lead to a Stars on Stars reunion for the two of them? Oh my God. I hope I'm going to look this up. I absolutely hope so. Because if not, who do we want Lady Gaga's Stars on Stars to be this year? Ooh, okay.

So who? Who else is in the race that we could pair her with? This is what I'm saying. This is what I'm asking. I know. I'm vocalizing the question so that I can sign it. So we can buy ourselves some time. Yeah.

I want to see her with someone unexpected. And you know what I want. You know what I really want. The thing that I was literally thinking that I want. What? I want her to win best. actress, provided that Olivia Coleman is also nominated. I was just about to say Olivia Coleman.

So that she can end her speech shouting Olivia Coleman and blowing her a kiss. Like, I want, that's the stars on stars that I want, is the two of them talking, because it can also, it can talk about Olivia winning the Oscar. They can also, we can also sort of imagine that, like, off screen, they're gossiping about Glenn Close because, you know, we love to be, you know, performatively catty about Glenn Clos. Gaga would never. Gaga was, like, very, reverential to very much was. She very much. I will

never forget that Glenn Close is Lady Gaga's mom's friend. Wait, what? Wasn't that part of the thing? She's like, oh, I know Glenn. She hangs out with my mom. I never heard that part. That's fantastic. That's super fantastic. I love that. Maybe I'm

unnecessarily hanging on to something past it that was said. But like, I'm pretty sure I remember from that round table. Glenn Close has the corner table. She's like, oh, I know her. She knows my mom. Catch Glenn Close at the corner table at Joe Antritoria, like, whenever you're in town. Next time I come to New York, maybe we should go to Joe Antritory.

I've never been, so that could be fun. Let's go. Maybe Stephanie will be there. Maybe. We haven't, we still haven't paired Gaga with an actor's on actor. I said Olivia Coleman. That's what I wanted. Oh, okay.

You're just going to go with Olivia Coleman. If Olivia Coleman is going to be around. I guess I will say Olivia Coleman as well. There's some options. There's some other options, I feel. like we could put her with uh um i mean i want i want to pair everybody with timmy for uh for dune and we could put her um no put her and ariana debose for uh west side story i want to see those two talk or you could put her with ariana grande for don't look up okay all right stop

we're stopping that right now we are not oh you you will resent it i i'm i have a feeling i am not on what that movie is that it's going to be ariana grande as arily I am not emotionally prepared for an Oscar campaign for Ariana Grande. I can't... I don't think that's going to be a thing. I don't. She's just going to be an annoying Adam McKay cameo. Yeah, so it'll be the Selena Gomez of a... She'll be the Naomi Watts. Yeah. Oh, no, that's a sad thing to say about Naomi Watts. Oh, what if Naomi Watts gets an unexpected late resurgence for Penguin Bloom and it's Naomi Watson Lady Gaga, Stars on Stars. What if that? What if Naomi Watts is nominated for Penguin Bloom, and Melissa McCarthy is nominated for not Penguin Bloom.

Wait. The Netflix movie, that is basically Penguin Bloom. The absolute chaos of Lady Gaga and Jessica Chastain doing stars on stars. We might not recover. We might not recover. I would live. I know. I know.

What else? The 2018 Oscar year, which... Jessica would absolutely insist on calling her Stephanie. We did a 2018 movie before, but we didn't really talk about the Oscar race that because what else was there to talk about with cats? Most recent 2018 was also like a best actor outsider with Boy is Back

or not Boy Is Back. Not Boy is Back. Boy Erased. I love that you did that completely sincerely. Boy is Back. I would watch that. Okay, the wild thing about the Mule is that it is not an AARP Movies for Grownups nominee.

I mean, That's one of the wild things. That's for sure. But you know what? Movies for grown-ups, once again, taste. The taste level. It's a good lineup. Tell our lovely listeners what the AARP Movies for Growno's best actor lineup is.

Hold on. Let me find it. I know Willem Defoe is nominated, which is hilarious to me. That is funnier than the Oscar nomination. Hold on. Give me a second, because it's not linked any. so I got to find it. Pretty sure Fico Mortensen is nominated, too.

I'm trying to pull it up. I'm pulling it up. It's fine. We got dead here. No, we're going to make him sit in it. Sit with what you've done. All right, Movies for Grownups Awards for 2018. Was this the year that we were so excited to watch them?

and then they were like not live on PBS. Yeah, and we still live tweeted them because that's the chaos you sign up for with this podcast. That's what you've asked for. That's what you're getting. Hold on. Okay, so the winner, yes, was Vigo Mortensen for Green Book, which, I mean, I just said the taste, but we're going to forget that.

Hugh Jackman for the frontrunner, a film I've still not seen. We should do that for this podcast at some point, so that I will. If we do it, it's going to be another one of those movies we're going to be struggling to talk about the movie. I mean, that's fine. I don't mind that. Willem Defoe, as you mentioned,

at Eternity's Gate, is the only crossover with the Oscar lineup. It's still, it's not surprising that Willem Defoe at this point is getting Oscar nominations because the Oscars love him, but, like, at Eternity's Gate really, truly barely made it onto anybody's radar that year.

It's really, really surprising. He was on, like, everybody's long list as like, if you needed to fill out a list of 10 Oscar possibilities, he was like the one you threw in there at 10 just to... He's easy to imagine being in fifth place in terms of the nominations because, like, that fifth slot was kind of up for grabs.

And I think the thing that we were underplaying was the fact that he was nominee before, so he's like very familiar... He's, like, very top of mind for Oscar voters. Right. That's the type of thing we can undervalue. John C. Riley was nominated for, Stan and Ollie. He was another one who sort of like crept onto those possibilities lists late, late, late in that season. He was a globe nominee. Once people sort of started seeing that movie, they started talking him up a little bit. It's not a bad movie. It's one of those movies that like, nobody was really excited to see it, but once people actually saw it, they were like, that's not a bad movie, which was sort of my experience with it as well. And then my pick for this category, who actually, I think, get delivered a very good performance.

And seeming, like, for whatever weird reason, the Oscars just never nominate him. He's only ever gotten one nomination ever, which is strange. It's Robert Redford for The Old Man and the Gun, which is an underrated movie with an underrated lead performance, I would say. And an underrated supporting actress performance. The Old Man in the Gun, I want us to do that movie soon because, like, I just want an excuse to revisit it because, like, that is a movie that has sat with me so incredible. well, and is only more and more interesting, as David Lowry continues.

I was going to say, David Lowry makes movies that sit really well with you, with the exception of, I would say, Anthem Body Saints, which is, I don't remember anything about it. The more and more, as time goes on with David Lowry movies, the more and more I'm like, that is a real noble swing. There are things about that movie that intrigue me, but I don't think it holds together on a very fundamental level. but Pete's Dragon, Green Knight, Old Man in the Gun, like David Lowry can...

A ghost story. A ghost story. A ghost story is a great example of that. Call me a simp, but my favorite David Lowry is Pete's Dragon. I mean, it's a very good movie. I've friggin sobbed in that. It's a very good movie. He's a... Though I think in the long run, Old Man in the Gun will probably be my favorite movie. He keeps making movies where people like us have to be like,

you know what was a really good movie? was this. Because, like, they just have not really caught on with the public. They are not movies that are made for cinema score. Like, they are movies to grow on you. I don't feel like there are movies that, like, we're fully prepared to, like, understand what it's trying to do when we first... I feel like Green Knight has been the one that, like, has done the best in that way. But even with Green Night, it would, like, it wasn't until, like, the day after. It's still not for everybody. Right. It wasn't. It wasn't. until the day after that I really, really appreciated how much it is. But, like, I can

understand where, like, if I'm recommending movies to, like, a family member, you know what I mean? I can understand how annoying it would be for me to be, like, the thing about this guy's movies is you're not going to really get it right away. It's just like, I can understand somebody being like, then why am I watching this movie? But for people like us... But Old Man and the Gun is unique because, like... Old Man and the Gun's a crowd pleaser. I will easily recommend that movie to people. It's a romance. Yeah. It's fun. It's a fun movie. It's a fun, sweet movie that

like is good in all of the ways that the mule is bad and toxic. Yes. Yes. That is a movie about a charming old man. Right. Old man in the gun is good. That is a movie about a charming old white man who you want to root for even though he's doing criminal activities. That is the movie that you watch. Not the

fucking mule. Absolutely. So, Good on the M4Gings for that. Listeners will eventually do Old Man in the Gun, but you should go watch it very soon for the scene where he and Sissy Spacex steal a bracelet. It is exquisite. It is. It's wonderful. All right. That's the movies for grownups.

If we're still talking about like the best actor race this year, because like here's the thing about Clint in movies where he also started. and is directing that I feel like it's cemented in his Oscar narrative, right? Both of the movies he won Best Picture and Best Director for. He also was nominated for Best Actor. It's like you can't really extricate them. Right. So when we have like a movie like this and Grand Torino, I think it makes it very easy for people to like throw another Clint Eastwood movie on their predictions.

Yes. Right. Right. Because even if it's bad, it's going to get attention. Right. and like this movie did get attention which is why I'm surprised there's really nothing going for it awards wise

because like this movie made $100 million it like it's got AARB movies for grownups written all over it Honestly I genuinely feel like the audience that it was going for was already there with Green Book and they were like we got it we're good I think that's probably true too they already have a movie that, like, they think... A happy white grievance movie.

Exactly. And, like, really is ultimately just reinforcing all of those bad things. This is an interesting Oscar year, though. It's a deep bench for Best Actor. The nominees, which is why it makes some of the nominees and the eventual winner for a lot of people be frustrating. I still am more sanguine on Rami Mollick and Bohemian Ratt. than probably 99% of other people out there. I don't feel like watching it a second time really like landed home that like, no, this is not a great movie. It's maybe not even a good

movie. I think, I still feel like I don't feel in my gut the sort of like base level rage that a lot of people feel towards that movie or towards Mollick's performance. But I will concede that like, you know, I will concede the point. It's very, it's an incredibly smooth brain movie. And it's because it's all like, it's, you know, constructed by the chainsaw hands of, you know, studio committee because of the whole Brian Singer thing. And like a Brian Singer didn't construct that final movie. Um, also, Romney Malik is just a very peculiar personality type as an actor. And just like, the more things you see him in. I think he's horrible. Well, this is the thing. The more thing you see, the more things you see him in, the less

those things feel like choices, and the more they feel like, oh, this is just like your weird affect. Yeah, this is just a bad actor. Like, I will say, Rami Malick is not nearly as bad in Bohemian Rhapsody as he is in the little things. Agreed. Agreed. But I think that's also still a frustrating best actor win, but I do think, like, felt educational

to me in terms of how these things sometimes shake out in that. you know, I mean, it was probably closer to best picture than we all want to admit. Yeah, it was almost certainly second place. He became that movie's de facto big win. Right. Because, like, it's just like, first of all, the academy has become very wealth spreading in terms of what it gives wins. And it's like, you know, here's one for you. Here's one for you.

It's like, it made it very easy for marriage story to not win anything because they were going to, to so easily give it to Laura Dern so like that's the win for that movie like that type of example and I think it's I think that ultimately helped play into Olivia Coleman's win because like that movie didn't win anything else sure probably wasn't close to winning anything else um but it was frustrating it's doubly frustrating aside from all the things about the performance in the movie that are bad because it felt like no one was saying the thing that that they were crediting Rami Mollick with the movie becoming a hit. And because of the troubled production,

he was getting credit for pulling the production together in some way. And it was like it was always this subtextual thing and no one ever just said the thing. And it was like, I would maybe just respect it a little bit more if you would just say the thing because they were so avoidant of saying the truth about Brian Singer. during all of it. And to say, well, Rami Mollick helped pull this thing together is to, you have

to admit what the truth is about Brian Singer. Wait, what is the truth that people wouldn't admit? All, I mean, well, all of the underage sex allegations. Oh, but like, that's not why he left the production of Bohemian Rhapsody, though. No, he left it because he's a nightmare in a monster. Right. He's just like, yeah, he just was, you know, a nightmare to work with and had no and no, you know, willingness to actually direct this movie. And yet seemingly keeps getting, you know, kept getting thrown job after job, after job. But Rami Malik reaped the benefits of that movie doing well. And, like, even some of it, like, you know, all of this stuff, like, how he, these whisp, this whisper campaign that he was getting into fights with Brian Singer during.

And, like, everybody was, like, pulling it together for Rami Mollick. And it's just like, you know, just say the thing. like but the i think that whole campaign and the whole studio like the press response was just to avoid mentioning any of it and yeah that was very frustrating to me the most annoying nominee of this five is actually christian veil for vice because my my feeling is just sort of like why did we why did we need that to get nominated i understand that like oscar voters still tend to be very, very impressed by impersonations. But

A, I don't think it's... He ran the gamut too. It's not like... I know. I know. It's not like his American Hustle nomination. I know, but I never understood it. He's won an Oscar. It's not like, you know, we need him to keep trying for that. It's not like

people really... It's like Vice got a bunch of nominations, but it never felt like people really liked it. Even people who sort of didn't hate it. Like, that seemed to be... say that Green Book is already like checking the boxes that the mule is checking so that's why

the mule didn't do. I think it's probably also at least functionally true for Vice because people didn't see Vice until very late and like if people had had time to really sit with that movie Vice absolutely would not do as well with the Academy as it did. Yeah. I think Vice

politically though is you're able to watch Vice and be like well that was a takedown of Dick Cheney and I'm glad that it was. And I don't think it's as much of a tickdown of Dick Cheney as it thinks it is, but I think the, if you liked, if you liked Vice, you liked it for being that. It's also just a movie, too, that, like, thinks that everyone in the audience is so stupid. Yeah. And, like, is so absolutely convicted. This, this I agree with. We didn't know this about, right, about Cheney at the time. And it's like,

are you kidding me? I was in high school and I knew this. This is the movie where this is the take that I agree with. I don't necessarily think it as much about the Big Short, but I definitely agree with it about this. This movie really does think you're stupid. And also, though, it's not that dynamic of a performance. It's not that good of a performance. I can never, I can remember nothing about it. It's not even that convincing of a mimicry. Right. And again, he already has an Oscar. I can understand a little, little bit why you would nominate Amy Adams, because you're all, you just want, you like Amy Adams and you want to see if, you know, maybe this is her year. But like, that doesn't exist for Christian Bell. I don't understand. And it doesn't

exist for Sam Rockwell, with him getting nominated, for an even less interesting impersonation of George W. Bush. Like, I just don't understand it. And then you have Vigo Mortensen folding a pizza in half. But again, I get that. Literally, like, that to me, I understand it. I understand why people loved Vigo Mortons in that movie. If you like that movie- Because you can understand people having the bad taste to go along with that. Like, it's an engaging performance. It's a big boisterous, like, that is a performance that is out there to entertain you. And I understand. And I understand people being entertained by it. I genuinely do. And it's unlike his other nominations too. Yes. So it's like on an industry level, they can see it as, you know, versatility or whatever.

But the only one of these five I would even nominate is Bradley Cooper for a Star is born. I think all the other interesting ones are not nominated. John David Washington should have been nominated, I think, for Black Klansman. Probably. I would guess he's sixth place because he had the Globe and Sag nominations. I'm still very mystified that Ethan Hawke didn't get better traction. And not because like I do understand. understand why First Reform would have puzzled a lot of people. But I think because Ethan Hawk is a two-time Oscar nominee, because Paul Schrader feels so within the wheelhouse of a lot of these sort of older academy members who remember the 70s as being this golden age, and even for as strange as First Reform is, especially in the note that it ends on, there are so many things

about that movie that I'm like, it's not that difficult of a movie to grasp. And it would seemed to have been a movie that could have easily sold people on this idea that, like, it's about, you know, it's about the environment and it's about, you know, this sort of sense of creeping hopelessness. And I know that hopelessness is a tough emotion to sell people on when you want people to be like enthusiastically. It's not like the actor's branch hasn't gone for bleaker movies. We were just talking about Ellen Burstyn in fucking Requiem for a dream. And that movie is such a showcase for. him like it's very it's very it's still surprises me it still surprises me that he didn't get more

traction for that but alas i mean i think like i'm one of those people who had who was like really shaken up by that movie in a way i was not expecting yeah first time i saw and i think it is a movie that you do have to like sit with and like sit with what disturbs you about it and i think even though it was a spring release i don't think people who were like in the Academy or like the Globes were watching that movie until late. Yeah. I think Ethan Hawk, to me in my mind, always twins with Tony Colette and Hereditary as those two great performances that everybody who watched the movie was raved about, but which never like, which were too, too much, too much for seemingly for Academy members. Yeah.

Tony Collette, I understand. We're like some Academy members are A2. Yeah, Tony Collette cuts off her own head in that movie. Well, yeah, yes. And I can understand that there are people who are too much of a scaredy cat to watch a horror movie. And I also feel like there are people who automatically place all horror movies in a box of, you know, not worthy for awards attention or whatever. We are absolutely not having an elevated horror conversation. No, because I'll piss everybody else in our audience off.

But it's, it surprises me more that Ethan Hawke couldn't get any attention is just what I'll say. Agreed. Anyway. Agreed. Anything else? I'm trying to just going through my notes about the mule, besides just, like, random swearing. Oh, I love that there was a fucking scene where we got a patriotic polka song. That felt like the last box in, like, a, in a bingo card or something like that, that somebody really, like, got their jackpot on that one.

The sex scene is when I was really ready to flip a table. The fucking three-sum. Because it's very much a movie that it's like, isn't it funny that Clint Eastwood is about to have sex with these two young women in a way that's like very much ogling these actresses and like there's a montage of butts in this movie made me think of remember the can butt movie from the blue is the warmest color guy i don't that was a wonderful day if i still need if i still need a good laugh i will go back and read the um mectube my love intermezzo reviews just to see all of the ways that people describe how this four-hour movie is basically just a four-hour montage of

rump shaker shots. Oh, my God. Now you're going to make me find the rump shaker intro, just so I'm going to have to put that in there. Thank you. Thank you very much. Throw that in there right after I say mectube, my love. Yes, I certainly will.

All right. But yeah, yeah, the threesome got a lot of attention in a sort of, you know, it's the most mainstream that I feel like the mule got was people would be like, there's a movie where Clean Eastwood has a threesome. I get so annoyed when people, the criticism that goes around that like, they're just making this for the memes or they're just having this storyline for memes. And I'm like, that's absurd to me. Yes.

But like watching the mule, the mule. I just want to call it the mule. Watching this movie, I was like, are they real? Maybe they are just trying to get the memes. I'm surprised that I haven't seen a meme of Clint Eastwood saying, You're Welcome, Dikes. Again, for a movie that is about a character and is directed by a man who seems to have never even heard of the Internet, it's a movie that feels like it exists for the Internet in a way that feels wrong and also annoying.

Right. Yeah. I think we can both safely agree we think that Nick Shank is the authorial voice on this movie. I do. And, like, top 10 people I never want to sit down and have a meal with, like, ever. I don't know. I just feel like I would not appreciate his finer qualities. We can talk a little bit about Diane Weist. It feels like Diane Weist, in the way that a year after this, talking of movies that were filmed fast, and they look like dog shit, Richard Jewell, what happened with Kathy Bates, Diane Weist feels like the type of, of actress who, like, that type of nomination could just happen. And I think some people initially predicted her when they saw her for this movie. People, yes.

And I feel like, I always feel like people overestimate that the sort of the thankless female supporting performance in a movie about an irascible old man, people always feel like, well, yeah, well, like, clearly, like, this will carry along this secondary actress. And it's just like, no, it's just going to be about this arrasable old man. So, like, who was in, was it also, was it Sissy Spaceic and Gitlo? Where I feel like people were sort of when Duval was getting all of that attention for Get Low. And they're like, well, Sissy Spac too. And it's just like, that is not, that is a thankless role.

That is not something that's going to do any good for Sissy Spacer. Well, but thankless roles have been not. I mean, like, especially when we're talking about women, like, thinking of, like, the Maggie Gillenhall nomination. Sure, sure. Yeah, for Crazy Heart. Yeah, that's a good point. I can't wait to talk something about Maggie this season. I know. I've missed her. I am excited for this movie.

But yeah, justice for Diane. But I'm good with... Diane got her justice. She is spectacular in Steven Soderberg's. Let them all talk. Yes, but we did all give most of the attention to Candace Bergen. Deservidly so, but I'm just saying... I mean, yes.

And then poor Diane had to be in that fucking Rosamond Pike movie that I hated. oh god i care a lot is terrible though i do feel like i care a lot is uh an interesting footnote in the free brittany um you know education god all right if you're not going to talk about elevated horror i'm going to put my foot down about talking about fucking the brittany conservatorship i'm not i'm not doing it fucking psychopath fans of hers that's the last thing i need in my my elevated horror rant is like there is no such thing as elevated horror no Oh, no, no, no, no, that was not an invitation to actually do the elevated horror thing. No, no, no, no, no.

No, I am fine not having that conversation. Let's do the IMDB game. All right. Do you want to explain the IMDB game to our listeners? Yes, every week we end our episodes with the IMDB game where we challenge each other with an actor or actresses name to try and guess what the top four titles that IMDB says they are most known for. If any of those titles are television, voice-only performances or non-acting credits, we mentioned that up front. after two wrong guesses we get the remaining titles release years as a clue and if that's not enough it just becomes a free for all of hints would you like to give her guess first i'll guess

okay all right so we mentioned this movie unceremoniously features alison eastwood the daughter of star and director oh no i know where this is going east and i already hate you I have pulled up for you the son of Clint Eastwood Mr. Scott Eastwood. The defining characteristic of Scott Eastwood is that nobody remembers when they've seen him in a movie. So thank you very much for tasking me

with remembering four movies that he's been in. An impossible task. Oh my gosh. Well, the one I do remember him being in because it seemed for a second like they were sort of auditioning him to be the Paul Walker replacement in many ways was Fast 8 Fate of the Furious, so that's what I'm going to... Correct. He is billed as little nobody.

Great. All of his known for is they are actual character names. They are not like, you know, jock number three. Right. Is it Suicide Squad, the first suicide squad? Suicide Squad. The Squad de Suicide He's not in any of the Hunger Games movies, is he? Are you guessing one of the Hunger Games? Yes, Hunger Games Mocking Jay Part 2. No.

If it's one of the other ones, I'm going to be mad at you. He is fathomable as being part of the divergent cinematic universe, but... Yes. One could fathom that. he really just does have the most unremarkable face which is not to say that it's like he's blandly handsome like if you look up the term blandly handsome like that is him right there all right

I mean he's got to be in one of his dad's movies I well from when he was a child it looks like oh are you giving me Or, you know, young adult. He's in Grand Torino, but it's not in his known for him. Okay. Oh, he's in Pacific Rim Uprising.

Correct. Pacific Rim Uprising. You have one movie left to guess with only one wrong answer. Is he in Richard Jewel? Not in Richard Jule, so that is an incorrect answer. this last movie is from 2015 I will give this to you that it is a Nicholas Sparks movie because I was going to say

this looks like it would be a fucking Nicholas Sparks movie but I don't think it is it is It's that rodeo one Is it rodeo? No It is definitely some cowboy stuff It's not about a rodeo? She's wearing a cowboy hat

on the poster and he's putting it on her head. Right, that movie. I thought I would have bet my entire life savings, which are none, but whatever. I will give it to you, it is called the longest ride. Yeah, would have never gotten that title. But I know, like, yeah, I know what you're talking about. Yeah, right. She's, like, wearing, like, a cowboy hat because it's, like, cool and sexy. And he's, like, it looks like he put it on her head, but it also looks like he could be going, boop to the brand for cowboy hat. Like, he's booping. Danielle Pannabaker or... Britt Robertson.

That's who it is. It's Britt Robertson, of course. Who is Britt Robertson? Britt Robertson was in Tomorrowland. She was in... Oh, fuck. Oh, what else was Britt Robertson in? I definitely have liked her in some things.

She's in a bunch of TV. She was in Under the Dome, I'm pretty sure. You want to talk about, like, a black hole of knowledge for me in terms of pop culture. It's Tomorrowland. I should have seen Tomorrowland because, like, anything that Tomorrowland touched, that wasn't George Clooney, I don't know anything. Oh, I think she's Julia Roberts's daughter and Mother's Day. She's the daughter. She's the daughter of Julia Roberts's wig and Mother's Day.

Here's what I will tell you, seeing Mother's Day in the theater is not an experience I regret. That was a wild fucking movie, I will say. I wish I'd seen second act in the theater Oh God, me too Me too All right For you Excuse me as I hiccup

I'll say it again Chris for you I chose from A Clint Eastwood directed movie That I really like Which was the Sorry keep hiccuping Which was the best picture nominee

Letters from Iwojima The star of that movie Is Ken Watan Kewatenabe. Ken Watanabe, who is in a lot of Christopher Nolan movies, so really my question is how many Christopher Nolan's am I going to guess? I'm just going to come out and say his Oscar nomination first, the last samurai. Correct. A this had Oscar Buzz movie that got Oscar nominations. Like that is... That got like eight Oscar nominations. Oh, I only think it got like two. I think it like... No, it got a couple of crafts categories. It definitely underperformed. Okay, it was nominated for four of us. Oscars, but it's still, relative to expectations, definitely underperformed. Right. Um, but yes.

Hmm. See, Lettos from Iwo Jima is interesting because he's definitely first built in that movie. It's a big enough movie that I feel like it could have some pull there. But I'm going to not guess that.

Okay. And I'm going to guess. the Christopher Nolan movies first, so Batman Begins? Incorrect. Not Batman begins. Okay, well, then Inception is definitely there. Inception, yes.

Okay. Those are the only two Christopher Nolan movies. I'm pretty sure that he's in. Yeah, but he was, like, billed on the poster. Oh, yeah. Like, he's definitely, yes, definitely in those. But I just mean, it's not like he's made, like, every Christopher Nolan movie. Right.

actually I'm going to guess the other Oscary movie before I guess letters from Iwo Jima I'm going to guess Memoirs of a Geisha that is a fantastic guess that is nonetheless incorrect so your two missing movies are 2014 and 2019 so neither of those are letters from Iwo Jima that I didn't guess that 2019 wow that's just like the sea of pre-pandemic movies that are like unstrung in time for me unless they are cats um 2019 what was he in the other year was what 2014 2014 so 2014 is that sea of trees uh not sea of trees uh not sea of trees uh not sea of trees although that, I think that might have been... No, Sea of Trees was 2015, but anyway.

Okay. Not Sea of Trees. I love that you remember that he's in Sea of Trees, though. He's on the poster. Okay. I've seen Sea of Trees also. Yeah. Fuck, what is this? What are these?

What indeed are these? Wait, is the 2019 movie, the movie with him and Julianne Moore, where she's an opera singer, whatever that's called? Bell Canto? No, it's not. but it's a hell of a guess Yeah Belcanto should be the like new poster child for like I'm sorry Julianne I can't do all of these

Yeah No I think that's definitely the case there Both of your missing movies are big wide releases Okay Are they franchises? Yes Okay Um

A very kind of peculiarly built franchise but peculiarly built franchise I mean I know he's not in the MCU he's not in the DCU correct

peculiarly built what do you mean well I can't really explain it without giving it away oh do we like this franchise I like

the first movie of this franchise okay and then the rest have been bad well the rest I haven't the rest I haven't seen so

I can't say he's second build he's second build in the first really have I seen these you've maybe seen one of them you've maybe seen the same one that I have okay

which is the first one yeah so 2014 2014 okay I'm guessing this was a summer movie yes this was like the summer

that I was working 80 hour work weeks on top of getting married and like it was busy I could give you a hint but the hint is is MCU based

so you won't get it unfortunately um this was a sort of summer blockbuster that I really liked, and a lot of people kind of didn't, in a way that I thought was a little, I don't know, missing the forest for the trees. But that doesn't really help you.

It's a franchise that had a 2020 component. Oh, okay. So, like, a third one came out in 2020? Yeah. well no 20, sorry 20, I don't know what years

are anymore Oh, okay. 2021. And is one of the like very few 2021 box office success stories. Is this the Godzilla movies? Yes.

Okay, I do really like the first Godzilla. Me too. But like I couldn't tell you who is in those movies except for Juliet Pinoche because she dies. Well, Godzilla, King of Monsters, is...

Which I never saw. Right, same here. But it's, Watanabe's in it, but it's Millie Bobby Brown and Kyle Chandler and Vera Farminga. And then the third one

is Millie Bobby Brown and Rebecca Hall. Yeah, now I remember that he's in it. Yeah. But I don't, I would never think about the cast of the Godzilla movies.

Let them fight. He wants them to fight. Godzilla versus Kong, or Kong versus Godzilla. Terrible. Oh, see, I heard from people who seem to really like it.

In a very, I think there were on something. But I think that was a lot of people's very first movie seeing back in the theater again. Yeah. In fact, I waited to see it. No, is cool, though. The first one is cool.

It's beautiful. It's a beautifully filmed movie. It looks fucking gorgeous. I was going to give you the hint that it stars twins because Elizabeth Olson and Aaron Taylor Johnson are both in it, and they play twins in the MCU.

I never would have gotten it. That's why I didn't give it. to you. That's why it's why. Oh, yeah. Elizabeth Olson is in that movie. She sure is. She looks up, she looks up and sees Godzilla at one point. That's her role in that movie. That's 50% of her screen time. Yes, it is. Yes. All right. Cool. Well, we talked about the mule. Well, we finally did the mule. The funny thing is, glad that's behind us. I'm the one who was. I was the one who was pushing for us to do the mule all this time. And then. I was so fucking crabby about it, but, you know, whatever. You know, sometimes we, I think sometimes our listeners or a faction of our listeners want some scorched earth episodes where we can, you know, rip a movie to shreds. Then we can replant and re-sow the fields, yes.

And hopefully this one made you guys happy. Cry Macho, if you would like to torture yourself, we'll be out soon. We could also plug, we are about ready to, at the time of this airing, we are about to engage virtually with the Toronto International Film Festival and we will be doing a special episode with our thoughts on the films that we are seeing definitely will

and be on the lookout for that. We haven't discussed when we're going to record or drop that. We probably should. But it'll be soon. Yes. All right. All righty. That's our episode. If you guys want more this had Oscar buzz, you can check out the Tumblr at thisheadoscarbuzz.tumbler.com.

You should also follow us on Twitter at Had underscore Oscar underscore Buzz. Joe, where can our listeners find more of you? Sure, I'm on Twitter at Joe Reed, Reed spelled R-E-I-D. I am on letterboxed. Joe Reed, read spelled the same way.

And I am thanking all of the Dykes on Bikes on Twitter.com and letterbox dot com at Chris V. File. That is F-E-I-L. We would like to thank Kyle Cummings for his fantastic artwork and Dave Gonzalez and Gavin Meevius for their technical guidance. Please remember to rate

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breeze noise, whisper through my Grand Torino, whistling another tired soul. In genomes and bitter dreams grow, are locked in the Grand Torino.