This Had Oscar Buzz - 169 – Suspiria

Episode Date: November 1, 2021

“Volk” intensifies this week, because we’re talking about Luca Guadgnino’s 2018 Suspiria remake! Diverging greatly in style and story from the Dario Argento original, Luca Guadagnino followed up his Oscar success with Call Me By Your Name with this riff on witches, post-WWII Germany, feminine power, and the art of dance. Guadagnino’s mounting pedigree stirred some to expect the … Continue reading "169 – Suspiria"

Uh-oh, wrong house. No, the right house. I didn't get that! We want to talk to Marilyn Hacks. I'm from Canada. I'm from Canada Water. Three mothers, pre-God, pre-devil. Mother Tenebrarum, Mother Lachrymarum, and Mother Suspiriorum,

darkness, tears, and sighs. You're making some kind of deal with them. Yeah. I don't know where you're talking. Hello and welcome to the This Had Oscar Buzz podcast, the only podcast modeled on trash. Every week on This Had Oscar Buzz, we'll be talking about a different movie that once upon a time had Lofty Academy Award aspirations, but for some reason or another, it all went wrong. The Oscar hopes died if we are here to perform the autopsy or the disembowlment in the, you know, bowels of our dance academy. We're going to throw our hooks into whatever we're talking about today.

Let me tell you, honey, the hook brings you back. Ha! Unofficial theme to 2018 Susperia. Somebody definitely cut a Twitter video to the trailer when it first came out, set to Blues Traveler's hook, and it was sensational. I can't remember who the hell did that because, you know, what is time? Internet, right. Tweet are nothing, but, you know,

disintegrated into ash eventually. It's true. I'm your host, Chris Fyle. I'm here, as always, with a man who is definitely not just Tilda Swinton in an old age suit. It's Joe Reed. I am but a humble psychiatrist. Now I'm doing French for a German. My German is possibly worse than my French at this point.

It's basically what Tilda Swinton was doing, too. Yeah. Weirdest part. about that movie, and that's saying something because there's a lot. No, it is not. Yes, I think so because everything else that's weird about this movie feels like it is an extension

of the fact that it's a remake of Susperia. Like, nothing about the fact that this was a remake of Suspheria called out for Tilda Swinton to play, in addition to her own role, Dr. Klemperer, and also to pretend that she was an actor named... Technically speaking, Tilda Swinton is playing

Lutz Ebersdorf playing Dr. what was his name? Klimperer. Klimperer. Dr. Klemperer. Yeah, Lutz Eversdorf. But like, and also

Lord knows I love Tilda Swinton, but like the thing where like she was at Venice or whatever and being like, I don't know what you're talking about. It was a man named Lutz Ebersdorf. And I was just like, okay, all right. I guess we're going to keep this charade. Especially when it was leaked while they were filming these set photos. that people were like wanting to see Tilda Swinton in costume and then here's this one and they're like here it is you guys she's in old age makeup playing this man like yeah it would it if I had gone into this movie cold and had no idea about anything that was going on it would have taken me like six seconds just be like oh it's Tilda Swinton and old age makeup she's playing the doctor for some reason like I still think that that is far from the weirdest thing about this

this movie. Re-watching this movie reminded me that I maybe don't understand half of what's going on in it. Yes. I, so I did a little like diving around and like watched a bunch of like explainer videos and read a lot of reviews and sort of I, I think I have a better sense of what is going on than maybe I did the first time. The first time I was very much content to just sort of like let it wash over me, you know, the sights and the sounds and how creepy it was. Yeah, like the movie is just like a soup of, you know, late 70s German politics and, you know, feminist theory and, you know, all within this package of less of a remake of Susperia than like kind of a visual essay on what the themes of the original. affected Luca Guadonino as, you know, a future filmmaker, you know. Which is fine with me because...

Totally fine with me, too. When it's a... For this probably applies to any remake, but especially a remake of a movie that is both this, like, held up as, you know, a standard bearer in a genre and also a cult thing and also from a filmmaker as specialized as Dario Argento, like there is no way to go about remaking. And I guess you can make the argument that like, why remake it at all?

Fair. But if you're going to, there's no way to approach it, but to do something like that is completely like perpendicular to. Yeah. Like it belongs to a completely different horror subgenre than the Argento original, which is a Gialo film.

This is more like... Right. What even? Well, I think you said right. It was almost like an essay or a meditation on the themes of it, on the themes of the movie as they related to the times that the movie was made in, which a lot of people really didn't... Like, that was a lot of people's least favorite aspect of the movie, the way it sort of ties in 1970s German politics to the movie. I thought it mostly worked for me. I think you could make the argument that they could have made that more backgrounded and let it be more sort of subtly thematic.

And I probably would have agreed with that. But I think it mostly works for me. And it made me curious about sort of what else was going on. And I sort of did my little supplemental reading and, you know, dug into things like the Battermindhof group and that kind of thing. Yeah, wasn't expecting to just like show up to this movie. I was very excited for at the time and be like, huh, this is like, you know, a kind of academic essay on the Biter Minehoff Complex. Yeah. Had you ever seen that movie, by the way?

I had not. Nor had I, but that's the only thing I really knew about that moment was the title of that movie, which is funny because there is a psychological theorem called the Badr-Mindhoff effect. That is, it's called, I think it's called reinforcement theory or something like that. What's essentially the thing is, once you hear of something for the first time, you will experience it more frequently after that, or once you, it's sort of that thing, I think I maybe mentioned that I'm here before. It's that thing where, you know, you are trying out a dance routine, and meanwhile,

your contemporary, who has been ostracized is having their bones systematically broken in rhythm to your dance moves. Yeah, not quite that. No, it's the thing where, like, you and your family get, like, a Dodge Caravan, the dark blue Dodge Caravan, and all of a sudden you start noticing all the other dark blue dodge caravans. And your mind thinks, oh, now there are more of these than there used to be. And it's like, no, you're just noticing them more because you're more aware of it.

That's sort of the psychological theorem. But anyway. It's like you become a witch, so you notice that everyone around you is also a witch. Right. And it came out because this one person had, like, heard of the bottom mind. Hinehoff group, and then, subsequent to that, felt like he was hearing about it and seeing references to it everywhere. And it's like, no, they were probably always there, but you weren't noticing them until

you learned what this was about. Which is funny because now that I only know about this piece of history through the title of that movie, now all of a sudden, whenever I see it, I'm just like, oh, this must be like an effect of that movie. And it's like, no, it's kind of the other way around. But anyway, that's a long way around. A movie that I think I can from moment to moment explain very little about what's going on in the movie. But yet you walk away from it with like this kind of real intense reaction and understanding of what this movie is attempting to do thematically.

That it's like I think the business of the movie, be like what is happening moment to moment and what is the subject. text and the context of it moment to moment matters less than I think the way Guadonino gets his ideas across, which I understand why a movie that does that frustrates as many people as it does or, you know, people think that the movie is bad. It's funny that you put it that way because I feel like I had the exact opposite, which is I felt like moment to moment, I knew pretty well what was going on just in terms of like, you know, now Susie's at the academy, she's got to prove herself. Now Sarah is suspicious of what's going on. She's sneaking around. Now these witches are, you know, whatever, transfixing the mind of this cop and are sort of torturing him. And now they're trying to find a body to transport Helena Marcos. his spirit into and like and now they've you know somehow brought back dr clumperer's wife and are sort of you know bewitching him with this and like moment to moment i sort of got it and just

sort of like until you get to the end and then you're just sort of like what the fuck is happening but i mean maybe i i understand like what is happening in the first you know to even say the first hour of this movie is really not that much of the movie like the audition happens like a half hour into it. Like, it's a long-ass movie. We'll talk about that as we go on. But, like, no, I definitely, my experience with the movie, which was very reinforced by this rewatch, is that, like, I understand how I'm supposed to feel about what I'm watching,

and I know what's supposed to unsettle me, but, like, I don't know what's going on. See, to me, the struggle was, I really struggled with what, like, what is this movie trying to say? What is the purpose of sort of this swirling of German history and this witch's coven? And why are we telling these two stories in tandem? What does Dr. Klemper's experience with the Holocaust have to do with what this movie is trying to say? Like it's, you know, two times watching it and then really sort of like, you know, swirling my mind around it for the last 12 hours.

I think I have a good sense of at least some of it. But like the bigger pictureness of it is the struggle for me with this movie. But I'm a dumb dumb, so whatever. No, I don't think you're a dumb dumb, this movie does make me feel kind of

stupid. Like, why can't I follow this like horror movie that is basically you know, a riff on a horror movie that I've seen many, many times. and like over a long period of my life too so it's like I understand and get that text but then again the original also I had times especially when I was younger where it's like what is suggested to be happening I didn't necessarily understand like a lot of the finale I was like wait I don't because of the imagery of it like what is physically happening in this space right now I didn't fully understand and I think with Argento with that movie but like with the other stuff that I've seen, it's funny,

I think the only Argento movies that I've seen are the three the Susperium movies. The one about Mother Susperiorum, the one about, now I can't remember, Tenen Brannum and Lachgramonum. I'm trying to remember shit.

They're not in front of me. You know, the three, whatever, the three mothers. Those are the three movies that I've seen, Susperia, Inferno. And weirdly, the first one, that I saw, the three of them, was Mother of Tears. I had just moved to the city, and a friend of mine was going to see Mother of Tears, which was the new Argento movie.

And I was like, well, I've heard of Daria Wargento. I'll go see this movie. And it sucks. It's, like, really bad. And so I was just like, oh. And then it wasn't until, like, a few years later that I finally saw Susperia. And then I finally saw Inferno, like, literally last weekend. And weirdly, before we had decided to do this movie, I had just sort of, like, randomly

decided to watch Inferno because it's October, because it's spooky season. And his movies are, like there's obviously this sort of overarching mythology to it with three mothers, and they're sort of one's in New York and one's

in Rome and one is in Germany and, but mostly it's just sort of like, they're pretext, right? This mythology is pretext to telling these very lurid, very colorful, very, you know, bloody and, you know, sometimes leering sort of horror movies.

And that's fine. Like that's, you know, that's sort of, it's letting Argento play in the particular playground that he likes to make his movies in. And Guadonino, again, decided, and with his screenwriter, whose name is David, uh, how are we pronouncing? probably sure um screenwriting partner of him they've worked together before they did a bigger splash on the movie i would call guadonino's masterpiece a bigger splash yeah bigger splash is very good i mean i'm still a call me by your name loyalist but you know um bigger splash is great and that was

his first time working with dakota johnson who uh rules we should uh we should say we'll definitely get into that we'll get into dakota we'll get into the tilda of it all, of course. There's a lot of, there's a lot to sort of like pick a part in it beyond the fact that it's kind of wild that this movie had Oscar buzz, even though it was a, it was a based on an original movie that would not communicate the idea of having Oscar buzz at all. It's all entirely, see, the timeline of it is, which we'll get into with Guadonino, is super fascinating to me in relation to

call me by your name because a lot of it is based on call me by your name for the buzz for this because like this was a movie that was kind of like spoken of in Oscar prediction like articles and such throughout the year and I was like are you out of your fucking mind but I guess we're doing this and it kind of really took

the release when it bombed in theater and the mixed critical reception for the movie to really take it out of those conversations that, like, to me, I was like, well, it doesn't matter if this movie's great. They're not going to go for a Susperia remake. Well, it was an odd Mobius strip of logic, right? Which I sort of followed for a while, which was,

and obviously you're right, the fact that, like, call me by your name was such a big awards player that year, even if it never properly released and never sort of was allowed to build the kind of popular momentum that it might have, who knows. But anyway, it was a big deal. It was a big awards movie that year. And because of that, his follow-up movie was going to get buzzed no matter what. And this follow-up movie had a lot of attention.

It was Susperia. But I think we, because of that, because there was this like, oh, well, the next Luca Guadena movie is going to have awards buzz. And they're like, but it's a remake of Susperia. And yet all of the little things about it, sort of at least I know and you know whatever good on you for being you know resistant to this the whole time and you know

I'll send you a little badge but I think the fact that Susperia is a horror movie but it's also in its own strange way kind of an art movie right well Luca Guadino making an art movie is interesting Luca Guadino sort of remaking this like masterpiece of very, you know, colorful and artistic horror, you could sort of mentally walk yourself down the path of, well, he's going to do something very artistic and impressive with it. And it's going to, and I know this is a loaded term for whatever, but it's going to, like,

elevate past the level of, you know, mere sort of lurid horror. And for a lot of people that was like, well, maybe there's an angle in that. maybe there will be, and the fact that he was re-teaming with Tilda Swinton, who had gotten some degree of awards buzz for I Am Love, and a bigger splash, I think by that point had become very much of like, you know, the people who really loved it were like, y'all missed the boat on a bigger splash, and you should have, you know, appreciated it more than you did. So there was a lot of, you know, there was a lot of angles through which we could convince ourselves that, like, no, the Suspiria thing could happen if it is this specific type of take on the movie.

And then, ironically, when it was released, the fact that it was this, like, very heady and intellectualized reworking of this art film and sort of treated it as an art film rather than a horror film in a lot of ways, even though there's a ton of horror to it, that was part of the reason why a lot of critics didn't like it. And that was part of the reason why ultimately the buzz, beyond the fact that it is what it is, and you show this movie to an Academy Awards voter, and they're going to, like, weep in a corner. If they finish the fucking movie. But it wasn't even able to sort of ride on this wave of, like, unanimous critical support. There were a lot of people in the media who really liked it. Well, I would qualify, like, my reservations about this at the time being a potential awards player. Like, if this was a better received movie, you could absolutely.

see it receiving something like an art direction or a cinematography nomination it's one of those things that I do question you know there there are you know anomalies like the Wolfman remake

getting nominated or like things when Rick Baker was you know working and creating things that I'm like horror makeup really does deserve more credit within the makeup and hair sign category and you could see

it is surprising to me that Susperia didn't get further ahead in that very specific campaign not just because of the horror element but because of the Lutz-Ebersdorf of it all where it's like they could have treated that campaign

like they treat old age makeup or like the makeup from the man who crawled out the window and came down a mountain and did the little dance Right. That thing. But Chris, I'm going to back you up for a second. Right. I'm going to back you up for a second because you managed to mention Rick Baker winning for the Wolfman and you did not properly pause. You did not properly pause for me to insert the clip of Cape Blanchett saying that's gross. And I'm just going to say we need to make room because that's gross. That's gross. That's gross. Okay. But yeah, I did think it was kind of ironic that the fact that Luca Guadino tried to do an artsy-fartsy take on Susperia was a big. reason why it wasn't a sort of unanimous critical success and that Mobius strip sort of completes itself then and continues to go on and on and on. But anyway, lots going on, a lot of moving parts

for this movie. It's a lot of movie. We're going to get into, we'll probably get into the Tom York of it all and the Amazon Studios of it all. There's a lot. Listen, this is an episode we record for 10 months before planning in front of everybody. We're going to get into the bulk of it. Right. Yes. We should probably put me through my paces of a plot description before we get too far. Yes. I have, I'm usually

because I'm terrible at the plot description, usually happy to not have to do it. But this week I am maybe more happy than ever to not have to give the 60 second plot description of of Luca Guadino's Susperia. Joe, are you ready to do so? Yeah, I sort of, I jotted down a bunch of notes, and I've tried to keep it to the bare bones,

because I know if I, like, follow all the tangents down the little hallways of this movie, then... The bare, bloody bones. I will get stuck. This is also a two-and-a-half-hour movie, so, like, have mercy on me for trying to condense this plot, but we'll do the best that I can.

I remember this movie being, me seeing some of the stupidest, is it movie or TV? takes, which is always a take that I saw. Yes, because of the chapters of the movie, people were like, you know, and I was like, are they joking? And then they kept going. And I was like, oh, my God, people are so stupid.

I am leaving the timeline forever. That's a wild take. Can you imagine splitting this thing up? And they were like, but it's on the Elmathon. Oh, boy. People are so dumb. People are so stupid. It's about maintaining the mood, people.

You got to trap yourself... I am very stupid, so I can say that. I am very stupid, so I can say... You've got to trap yourself into this movie for two and a half hours. It's the only way it works. And a lot of people still don't think it works, but I do. Anyway... All right.

Joe, are you ready to give a 60-second plot description of Susperia? Yes, I am. All right, your time starts now. All right, picture at West Berlin, 1977. Amid all the turmoil of hijacked Lufthansa flights in the Bader Meinhof group. There is a dance academy that is secretly run by a coven of witches. Chloe Grace Moretz was a dancer there until she figured it out, She took her suspicions to her shrink, Dr. Klumper, before going missing entirely.

Enter Susie Banyan, the new girl at the school who grew up super repressed to Hoyo Mennonite, but quickly displays her superior dance ability and impresses the head instructor Madame Blanc. Meanwhile, there's a struggle for power going on behind the scenes between Blanc and an unseen Madame Marcos. So Susie advances at the academy, often to the detriment and sometimes broken bones of the other girls, and Blanc and the witches are clearly grooming her for something big and sinister. Blanc starts sending Susie her dreams, which are a kaleidoscope of horror. Fellow dancer Sarah gets suspicious of everything going on and seeks out Dr. Klemperer about Patricia and on the night of the big dance

she discovers it deteriorated, Chloe Grace Moretz and other disappeared dancers, but it's too late because the ritual has begun and they plan on sending Marcos to spirit into Susie's body as a vessel, only whoops, Susie is actually the ancient mother's spiriorum, and she murders Marcos and all her loyalists and takes her place at the end. It's a head witch, and she's nice, and she lets Dr. Klemper

forget the part where his wife died in a concentration camp at the end. Joe, we actually have some breaking news. We need to cut into 538. Marcos is leading the polls in the Western block. Do you have any current takes on this?

I know that it has been a tight race. Yeah, the arrow on the... But Marcos is currently favored to win the Western block. Yeah, the arrow on the New York Times' little meter is pointing heavily to Marcos. They're thinking about calling it, but they haven't called it yet. But if you're in line at the polls, stay in line. If you are in line for Blanc, stay in line. Blanc voters, stay in line at the polls.

They have to let you vote if you are in line to vote. for Blanc. So, um, yeah. Marcos Blanc is my favorite. Anytime there's an election of any kind, I will be the dumb bitch who comes in with a Marcos and Blanc joke because I can't help it, because that is, uh, that's, that's the way I've been cursed. That's the curse of me and Susperia is I will forever wander the halls of my life making Blanc and Marcos jokes. But my joke is that Mother Marcos, great makeup, wild makeup, but Mother Marcos looks like

the sunglasses emoji. Like, just like, A! She looks like a cool person. Wait, that's why your letterboxed review ends with A. Yes. It's so weird. Meas, various Tilda Swinton's.

Oh, my God. Mother Marcos, who is like not revealed in full until the, like, wild ending scene just seems like a cool chick. Who bought her some Oakley's? She's not a cool chick. She's trying to take over the body. That's how she's lured all these people.

Like, she is evil and she is bad. And, you know, I guess in the grand metaphor of this thing, she might be a Nazi or something. So she's not cool, but, like, the Oakley did it. That's how it recruited all these people. Even if they're wearing sunglasses, Nazis are not cool. Nazi witches are not cool. No, Chris, she looks like Pizza of the Hut and she's, you know, she's melting down there in her little, you know, catacombs or whatever. And she does have the sunglasses. So yes, you do feel like she was the subject of a meme where she was just sitting down there in her catacombs, her body sort of melting away. And then the sunglasses like descended upon her. And it's like, cool. Cool, cool, Marcos. Yeah. She was also. She's like, you know what, we're not winning these polls.

We have to do something to change my image. Right, right. And then, you know, one of her minions is like, what if we got you some sunglasses? It will change your image. We will get... You will seem very cool. The young people really love the sunglasses, Matamapos.

People will be like, but she is a Nazi. And then someone else was. say, but she looks so cool. This is more like Swedish than German. As we've noted before, I'm not great at impressions. More like Dario Argento to the Poles. That's my

Hillary Clinton impersonation. That's our episode, guys. Thanks. Bye. Got to go. Okay, so this is where I'm like, maybe I don't understand the thematics or, you know, the German politics of it. And maybe it's because I'm stupid and I'm a dumb dumb. But are the Marcos people supposed to be representative of like late generation Nazis?

I think so. So this is where I've come out of my meditation on this movie. And my best, and I don't think it's all of it. I think there's a lot going on in, you know, in the thematics of this. But my best encapsulation of the theme of this movie is you have, like, Blanc talks about when she talks about the Volk, the dance, that they're going to perform, that it is a dance of rebirth. And of course, she says rebirth and your mind goes, aha, it's because you're having a rebirth ritual downstairs later. And the rebirth is supposed to be Marcos, this sort of like decayed, melting, ancient, thousand-year-old woman. who shouldn't be alive, is going to extend her life unnaturally by taking this beautiful

young vessel in Susie Banyan and transporting her spirit into her and basically taking on this shell of this young woman, and that is going to be her rebirth. And what the movie, I think, is saying by, you know, Susie sort of thwarting this and slaying all the Marcos voters is you can't have a rebirth without purging. the wickedness of the past, right? You can't have, it doesn't count as a rebirth if it's just you're the old generation finding a new skin,

a new more palatable skin to walk around in, right? And I think that's what the German autumn era of this year, 1977, was doing, which you had these young people being like, were only 40 years removed from the Holocaust, not even, and all of these people in positions of power are former Nazis. Like, what's going on here? The society that is trying to pretend like we've moved on

and trying to, like, sort of bury the sins of the past. And it's just like, yeah, but the head of the, like, you know, better business bureau in Munich or whatever the fuck is, like, it was a Nazi. And so, and there was this anger among the young people and this revolutionary impulse among them to just be like, no, like, sweet. them all out like get rid of it start over a genuine rebirth and i do feel like that is if not the whole thing i think a big that's the big i think thematic thing which is that this coven cannot you know go through this rebirth without being like no we're sweeping out the old like we're getting

rid of all of it and and i think that's sort of what dakota johnson as you know susy as mother As much as it felt like a palpable, you know, thematic note post-Trump election, it feels like because of some of these themes, it will be more relevant, you know, as we kind of age with this movie. Yes. Sure. Yeah. I mean, you look at, I mean, this movie didn't, couldn't have anticipated January 6th, but like that's a similar thing that's what's going on now, which is just like, how are we moving on without? addressing the fact that all of these people in Congress supported this fucking, you know,

insurrection that happened. And, and I think that's, it's a, it's a theme that will recur through history, unfortunately. In various different forms. In various different forms. Yeah. So this movie, and I want you to talk about this because I feel like you have a better grasp on this than me, Argenta, or Luca Guadino had the rights to this movie. since, like, he was saying, I saw an interview, and I think he was saying, like, he had had his designs on Susperia since, like, the late 90s. Like, he had some sort of, like, and for a while there, it was going to be David Gordon Green, who was going to... Which I thought they were, originally thought they were competing projects, but it turns out in doing a little bit more research. They might have been linked up at some point or another in the process.

Yes. Eventually, when David Gordon Green passed over the project, it was with the intention of Luka will make his movie. Yes, that is what it was. Considering what David Gordon-Green has done to bastardize, destroy other horror, you know, institutions, for the better. But, like, we would hear about David Gordon Green's version of the, of Susperia for well over a decade for a long time. It was supposed to be Natalie Portman. And, of course, that always, that came back up in the news when she was doing Black Swan with all of it. Because, of course, it's another ballet horror movie.

But, like, he had had various people attached. Like, Judy Dench rumored at one point. Isabel O'Pair, once Natalie Portman had moved on from it, it was going to be the orphan from orphan, Isabel Furman. Sure, sure. You can see all of these people in versions of this movie, right? You can sort of like, you can conjure it in your head. I think an idea of a movie where a coven is made up of Judy Dench and Isabel Huper and Janet McTeer, like, fascinates me. Throw it in there as well, fine, like cool.

I, yes, I think the weekend after Halloween kills premiering is probably not the best weekend to be sort of wistful about what the David Gordon Green version of Suspirit would be. And I should make it clear. I mean, I hated the first. I know. Again, your bad, he got his hooks in. Your medal is in the mail, Chris. You get the prize. I am not asking for a medal.

I am saying everybody has changed their mind because of Halloween kills and some of us were right all along. No. On what his POV was, on what that franchise should be. I stand by everything that I said about the first Halloween remake, which it's fine. And I think I still stand by that it is such a better movie than Halloween kills because it has at least a simple idea and executes it to the best of its ability. The finale of the first David Gordon Green Halloween is, I will, I will, you know, be humble here and say that finale is spectacular. but all of his ideas and his approach to that material is not just, like, bone-knockingly stupid, but the wrong, he doesn't understand who Michael Myers is and represents.

Like, the Michael Myers he creates is not Michael Myers. It's Jason Voorhe's. Like, it's that simple. And that, but after Halloween kills, I'm like, that's a problem, but, like, that's not even his biggest problem in the second one. Like, not to get into it, but, like, holy mackerel. Anyway, and I like David Gordon Green in almost all other aspects. I like a lot of his movies, and I don't want to just sort of like shit on David Gordon Green. But, like, yeah, you can, this is not the moment to imagine that David Gordon Green would have done anything you wanted to see with a Suspiria.

I mean, I will say, like, you say to me, David Gordon Green remaking Susperia, and you say David Gordon Green remaking Halloween. And I imagine two very different types of horror movies, right? Because Suspira already is a somewhat, like, esoteric horror movie. It probably would have, you know, he wouldn't have done these, like, wide, sweeping, you know, populist choices that are stupid. Well, what's interesting about one of the big failures of Halloween kills is the way that he decides that this isn't going to be necessarily even a movie about, Laurie Strode or even about Michael Myers, but about the town of Haddonfield and what, and, you know, the trauma, God, not to bring up trauma, that exists within a community that's been terrorized by a serial killer. And like, and all of that is like, as I kept saying, like, I guess that's an intriguing idea if you carry it off well, but it's carried off abhorrently. And, but weirdly enough, Susperia also is kind of doing that, I think, more elegantly, which is it's placing this horror story within the, the context of, in this case, I mean, a city in West Berlin, but in really a country that has been sort of through this generational trauma and is, you know, dealing with it. Now it's handled metaphorically

and, you know, delicately. And in Halloween kills, it's very much not. I mean, I've seen, I've seen responses from people that think that it is not handled so delicately and it is a little ham-fisted in Susperia that like... Right, but even... The Dance Academy is literally right next to the Berlin Wall. Right. Yeah. No, yes, I guess what I'm saying is comparatively, even the people who thought that

Suspira was heavy-handed, in comparison to something like Halloween kills, it is positively whisper-thin, right? You know what I mean? It's whisper delicate. It certainly doesn't have Anthony Michael Hall traipsing through the whole thing, stomping around, talking about how evil dies tonight. Anyway, I don't want to talk about Halloween kills anymore. I'm done.

Let's talk about what should we talk about first? I guess Luca Guadino, right? We sort of started to talk about this a little bit. He's sort of the alpha and the omega of the Oscar buzz for this movie. He said he was already in pre-production for Susperia while he was making Call Me By Your Name. He shot Call Me By Your Name in the spring.

of 2016, and then shot Susperia in the fall of 2016. And there were two, there were two basically shooting blocks for Susperia, a chunk prior to the Sundance premiere of Call Me By Your Name and after. So it's like when most people were seeing Call Me By Your Name in the fall festival circuit, and then, you know, in the fall and then, you know, as the movie expanded six months later. Right. Susperia was already done. It was wrapped.

He was working on post-production for it. It's a little bit of a mind-fuck to imagine that, to imagine that his mind could be in both of those places at the same time, right? In this very sort of like... Creating two incredibly different movies. Right. This very, like, romantic Italian. And, like, the Italy of Call Me By Your Name also sort of sets itself within a political,

sort of like a political moment a lot more, it's a lot more vaguely there. It's like if Todd Haynes had overlapping production schedules for safe and far from heaven. It's like, it couldn't be more like differently observed and intended movies, right? Right. Well, and even that, though, we're like, at least safe and far from heaven exist in the same country and are both featuring female protagonists, whereas just like, even that, it's like, Susperian and Call Me Byronym are just so incredibly divergent. And

so that's, it's a cool little footnote, but like he was a director who I think came onto most people's radars with the movie I Am Love. Was that his debut or was that just the first thing that people... I don't believe it's his feature

debut. I just think it's the one that we state side have access to. That is a movie about Tilda Swinton masturbating in a garden. and other things, I think, happen. It's a movie that I hated when I first saw it, but... I watched it again, and I like a lot more.

I haven't seen it a second time. It got a really, really strong reception. People really, really loved it, and I watched it, and I sort of felt underwhelmed by it. Tilda learned Italian in a Russian dialect. Yes, there was a lot of, like, dialect acrobatics that she did. I think she's wonderful. It got a costume nomination from the Oscars and, like, well-deserved there. But it made me intrigued, at least, when he comes around with his next movie, which is a bigger splash, which is...

It's not a vulgar movie, but it's, like, a... I'm trying to think of, like, how I would capture the tone. Salacious, I think, is a fair word for it, and it's intentional, too, because, like, it's a... I don't want to say, like, the ultimate purpose of its, like, salacious. and like the appeal of like sex and um you know sexuality and wealth and affluence the it's very intentional how it uses it towards the audience to make i would say a grander message about how you know those things are diverting tactics for more toxic things in our culture um and i won't i don't want to go into that deeper because i want people to discover it because i think that's a

movie that reveals its ultimate themes in like the last 10 minutes of the movie. In many ways, a bigger splash is sort of the island vacation karaoke bar version of we saw you from across the bar and we really like your vibe. Like, that's kind of what you're getting with a bigger splash with, you know... It's a movie about hot people. I love movies about hot people. It's a movie about hot people. That is 100% absolutely accurate that features Ray Fines.

doing a Mick Jagger kind of impersonation. Matias Schoenertz is wildly hot, and that's not even getting into the Tilda and Dakota Johnson of it all. This was my big Dakota Johnson revelation movie. I know other people... She's incredible. She's incredible in that movie, and that came after... Right after the first 50 Shades?

I believe she had filmed the first 50 Shades, but it had not been released yet. at least when it premiered on the festival circuit because that movie had, like, it premiered at Venice and then didn't release stateside until... Yeah, I definitely didn't see it. Memorial Day the next year. Yeah, I had definitely seen 50 Shades, because 50 Shades released in February of...

It was Valentine's Day, right? That was the whole gag of it. It was Valentine's Day 2015. Dakota's good in those movies. She is. I mean, I thought so even from, you know, I only saw the first one, So I can only speak to the first one.

But she's certainly at least better than what the initial reputation of that movie. I think that movie kind of went through ups and downs of sort of critical appreciation and backlash and backlash to the backlash and all this sort of stuff. Well, it started sort of at the – it started with backlash. And then the backlash to the backlash was the second stage of it. But anyway, yes, I think she's good in that movie, certainly better than you would be given to believe. So I saw that in February and then I didn't see a bigger splash until, yeah, like you said, like May or June or whatever. of 2015 so then it was that was the movie where I was like and I had already had an awareness of Dakota Johnson because she was in this TV show on Fox that was very short-lived called Ben and Kate that I really

loved um that was uh 2012 2012 2013 something like that it was one of those like I think it lasted like a season on Fox and it was this like brother sister okay this is the weirdness of you look back at Ben and Kate now and it's like if this was pitched as a television show now you would up executives in jail. It's Dakota Johnson and Nat Faxon play brother and sister who are like, she's a single mom, he's sort of a fuck up. They grew up either like, it's one of those things like you can count on me situations where like their parents died when they were younger or like whatever, like they were all they each other had. And now they're like, she's moved in to help her raise the daughter. And Lucy Punch plays the like local bartendress slash best friend.

You can place a movie or a TV show at a very particular, like, four-year period in time by just invoking the name Lucy Punch. Lucy Punch was part of, there was this, she was on a TV show called The Class that was about this, like, class reunion. And it was one of those things, I want to look up the cast of this show. It was in 2007, right? And, like, again, it was a very similar, only lasted a season. I think it was on CBS, but it's a show that's become sort of legendary for the fact that it was this incubator of Lucy Punch was on it, but like Jason Ritter, Lizzie Kaplan, Jesse Tyler Ferguson, John Bernthall, Andrea Anders. It was like everybody who was on that show. And it was one of those shows that, like, critics liked, but nobody watched and all of a sudden it was gone. It was very an atypical CBS show, so nobody in CBS's demographic watched it or liked it. Typical and not critics liked it and it was on CBS. And so it had this like diaspora of all of these actors sort of moved on and Lucy Punch was one of them.

And so like everything she would do subsequent to that, I would really be interested in and Ben and Kate was one of those shows. But anyway, so going into 50 Shades of Grey, I was like, oh, it's the girl from Ben and Kate. I didn't even make the Melanie Griffith Don Johnson connection until like well after the fact. Like I had no idea watching Ben and Kate that that's who Dakota Johnson was. but yeah so bigger splash happens and I like the scales fall from my eyes and I'm just like she's amazing like she's really she's maybe my favorite performance in that movie I don't know that's tough no Ray Fines is Ray Fines yeah until the rules and Mattia Schoenertz we were just talking about Ray Fines and I don't think we talked enough about a bigger splash because like you know we we were talking about it in the

context of Grand Budapest which if that was his Oscar that would make total like sense and it would be wonderful, but like, Rave finds in a bigger splash, you guys. Just go watch that movie, listeners. Just go watch it. Just do it. And then so, after 50 Shades, I think it was this sort of process

of what is Hollywood going to trust to go to Johnson with? And sort of she's kind of pushing her boundaries a little bit, and a bigger splash helped, but also nobody saw that movie. So that was a movie that really was easy. to kind of push away. She did this comedy called How to Be Single,

which is like her and Rebel Wilson and... Allison Brie. Yes, Allison Brie, thank you. I love Allison Brie, but if you cut the Allison Brie parts out of that movie, it is five times better. I've never seen it. Her portions of that movie are like, wow, bad.

Oh, no, in what way? In that, like... Oh, and Leslie Mann is also in it. all of the other characters get to just kind of be in this light fun actually kind of funny uh you know female led comedy and alison brie's character is asked to be like pushed to this real extreme of a caricature oh that's that is really off-putting and kills the movie to me it's not it's not the actress's fault but that's too bad um And so I'm just sort of, I'm looking through Dakota Johnson's filmography, and it's like a lot of movies where it's like, oh, that should have been, like, bad times at the L. Royale is my all time. Like, that should have been better movie. Like, it was, the ingredients of that movie are really interesting. And she's a lot of fun when she's in it, but she's not in it that much. She's not in it that much. She was in this movie that only I have seen, which was a Hulu horror movie called Wounds. And it's her and Army Hammer. But like, yes, but like she's barely in that, too. Like, it's, that's, that's.

army hammer um she's in the peanut butter falcon a movie that i did not see which is um shy le buff and i genuinely don't know what that movie's about so i can't really speak to it but it's just like a lot of movies where it's just like but you're like you're dakota johnson you should maybe be doing like bigger things and that and you don't well she was in the high note which is like she was serve her but that's a fun movie that's a fun movie that's a good movie to have on our credit and now this year it's also interesting she's in the law daughter, the Maggie Jellon Hall movie, The Lost Daughter, which I have not seen. But, like, even in that movie, it feels like a lot of the buzz is going to Olivia Coleman

and Jesse Buckley more than it's going to her. I'm like, we won't know until we see it. Like, the supporting actresses, like, I've seen people talk about Dakota Johnson. I've seen people talk about Jesse Buckley. But I've also seen people talking about Degmara Dmitzic. I love her. I love her. In a way that I'm like, unless, you know, Netflix, you know, picks a lane.

or picks a favorite. It could just be this morass of supporting actors' performances in that movie. And they'll just funnel it to Olivia. Right. Yeah. I'm very excited to see that movie, though. If anybody out there is listening and has an in on a press screaming for the Lost Daughter, I want it. I want it now.

Look it up. She's also going to be doing a Netflix, Jane Austen adaptation of Persuasion. So, like, that could be something for, like, her star meter, for lack of a better word. The thing that I don't think is going to happen, but I so hope that it does, is this was announced maybe a year or two ago that Elaine May was working on a new film and she was going to star in it. And it's been radio silence on it since. So I assume that it's not happening. But if it does happen, trust and believe I will be more excited for that than anything else. She also, in that span, I think early, probably off of 50 Shades of Grey, she hosted Saturday Night Live.

And one of, I thought she was especially good in that. She hasn't been back on yet, but I'm hoping she'll be back soon. She was in that sketch that sort of begins to present as one of those, like, father dropping his daughter off at college. And he's being very sort of emotional about it. And she just sort of looks at him. And she's just like, Dad, it's going to be okay. And then you see, like, the truck full of ISIS terrorists pull up. And she's like, Dad, it's just ISIS.

And she goes, and she's sort of like, and it's, it's one of those sketches that only really is basically one line. And it's just this, like, gut punch when all of a sudden it's just like she's going away to be with ISIS. But she, like, looks at her dad as Taryn Killam is playing her dad. And she sort of, like, cocks her head to the side. And she's like, it's just ISIS. And then she winks at him. And I'm like, that is acting, my friends. Like, that is performance.

She's a star. I love her. I do love her. She, you know, took down Ellen and one, uh, and basically one sentence. Okay, let's talk, let's talk for a second about how she single-handedly took down Ellen. Like, she was the first domino in the domino effect of Ellen. I mean, maybe the second domino, because it feels like the first domino and a lot of people's take down is, you know, gay whisper campaigns. Well, I was going to say, that's not even a domino. That's just like, you heard, it wasn't even just like gay people. It was like literally, that's the box of domino. If you knew somebody who lived.

Right. If you knew anybody who lived in Los Angeles, and they knew somebody who used to work for Ellen in some capacity that had a story about it just being like a terribly unpleasant place to work. And so that was, yeah, all the dominoes, that's set up all the dominoes. And then Dakota Johnson just like nudged the one very sort of just like playfully. Just like, what if I did this? And also it was just like brrrushed everywhere. That's not true, Ellen. That's what it was. It's not true Ellen. Plink. And then that. They all go down. And then she just like, what's the first thing that you unleash in the board game mouse trap? That's what that's not true. It's the ball, right? Don't you sent the little like ball down the one way?

Or you tip it over in the- Yeah, it's out of a cup. The ball starts in a bucket. It's in a bucket, right? You tip the bucket. That's her. She was tipping the bucket over. Yep, that's what it was.

Yes. So back to Suspira, though. a whole bunch to talk about. We've only talked about, this is only our second Tilda Swinton movie that we've ever done. And the first one was burn after reading and there was like 8 billion other things to talk about in that movie. So we didn't really talk about Tilda very much at all

actually. And like, Tilda is having the time of her life with the millennials in this movie. She is on fucking one. Oh yeah. I mean, she's on one, two, and three because she's playing three roles in this movie. It's still

the thing about Tilda Swinton is A, it both seems kind of crazy that she won an Oscar And yet also, it's also kind of crazy That that that remains Michael Clayton remains her only Oscar nomination Like both of those things I think it's less crazy that it remains her only Oscar nomination I think we should just be grateful that she won for that movie

Which is any Truly great performance too That I feel like people didn't appreciate just how great she was in that movie until it was, like, time to vote, and that's how she won. Well, up until Michael Clayton comes along, her roles were, like, this really weird mix of incredibly art house, like, Derek Jarman, Jim Jarmuch, like, really sort of, like, the kinds of indie movies that don't even, like, have a chance to bubble up, really.

Obviously, Orlando had, like, you know, big critical support, and that's a movie that, like, sort of stands out in her filmography of. obviously, but, like, nobody knew really who she was. She's in the deep end, and that had, like, she sort of, like, approached the best actress conversation that year in 01. But, like, mostly she's in the kinds of, you know, she's in movies like Young Adam and Technalist and, you know, broken flowers and things like that that's just like, no, like, this is not approaching Stephanie Daly.

Like, these things where it's just, like, they're so far away from. I think she has two lines and broken flowers. Right, right. But she's also, but she was also sort of, like, weird. like prominent in the trailer. And then when she does show up at that stage of a career in studio stuff, it's like she's playing the angel Gabriel in Constantine, which by the way, that movie rules and she rules it as Gabriel in that movie. Like she's great. And then, or she's like the white witch in Chronicles of Narnia, which is this like huge movie. And she's

playing the like kind of the standout character, but in this very kind of like unknowable, untouchable way where it's just like, did they just find a white witch? movie 10 times cooler than it was. Right. But it also feels like they cast that movie by going into Narnia and finding a white witch and sort of like bringing her back through the wardrobe. And like that's... Narnia is Tilda Swinton's summer home. Right. That's where she's, she's summering in Narnia. It's lovely there. And then after Michael Clayton, so like Michael Clayton happens, she's great in it. I remember watching Michael Clayton and being like, Michael Clayton's phenomenal.

George Clooney is probably going to get an Oscar nomination, but you know who should get an Oscar nomination? It's Tilda Switten, but it won't ever happen. And then, like, and it does, and she wins, which is like the most unlikely thing of all, and it's great. And then after that... And you could probably also credit her win a little bit that Michael Clayton was this immensely popular movie,

and the Oscars were starting to do this thing that they very much so do now, where it's a wealth-spreading thing of, well, Michael Clayton has to win for something, where is some flexibility that it can win for something, and it ends up being the beneficiary of that. One of my favorite little footnotes about the 2007 Oscars is that Michael Clayton's the only movie

that got more than one acting nomination. It got three, and everything else, all the other acting nominations were alone on their island, and that's a very rare thing for the Oscars. Normally, if you've got a movie with one acting nomination, you have multiple ones. And that also... Should be Juno and the Zorro.

savages getting multiple. I agree. At least in the fact that you know, I definitely agree. But also, we've talked about before about supporting actress that year, about how that one, the voting was spread out very wide, and there was absolutely no consensus. We're like Cape Blanchett for I'm Not There, won the Golden Globe. Amy Ryan, for Gone Baby Gone, had won the majority of the critics prizes. Ruby D. for American Gangster won the SAG. and then Sertia Ronan for Atonement hadn't won anything. Maybe, did she maybe win Basta? Now I don't remember who won Bfta.

Tilda. Okay, so Tilda won Bfta. And then Sersha Ronan is sort of this like floating free radical in here where it's like she hadn't won anything, but she has that like kid appeal where it's like sometimes the like the Anna Pac-win will, you know, survive and will surprise at the Oscars. And so really it was the closest thing I've ever come to a five-way race going in to Oscar Day. Like, I've ever, like, I can't think of anything else that was an acting category that felt

like a true five-way race going into that day. I mean, when Christoph Waltz won for Django, I don't think it was a five-way race, but it did feel like there was. That's a good point. It did really, that also felt like there was, there was, yeah, a lot of possibilities. You're not wrong about that. I don't think anybody really thought that, like, well, I guess, but like, you're right, because Alan Arkin was nominated for Argo, and it's like, well, he hasn't really won anything,

and he already won, so he had won before, so there's not a lot of momentum, but he's the one who's in the best picture frontrunner. And Philip Seymour Hoffman had also, I mean, that was the thing about they had all won before. Philip Seymour Hoffman wasn't really seemingly super buzzed for the master, except for that, he was the one with the biggest role, right? Like his sort of, him and Waltz sort of both had the, like, pseudo-lead thing going on. It did feel like it was Waltz or Tommy Lee Jones or Robert De Niro. It was... And Tommy Lee Jones won SAG. Tommy Lee Jones had won SAG. And Robert DeNiro was with Silver

Lange's Playbook, which was nominated in all four acting categories and felt like it had momentum. Yeah, I think you're not wrong about that, that being sort of the other closest to time. I think this supporting actress race we're talking about, though, is more so like anything could have happened. Anything could have happened. And for me, the best possible outcome happened, and I was so thrilled. And so after that, she has this interesting mix of she's either part of a bigger ensemble and kind of doesn't disappear into the ensemble, but is sort of a, she's down the call sheet

a bit, burn after reading, Benjamin Button, Moonrise Kingdom, movies like that. And those are mixed in with smaller movies where she is the lead. But now because it's Oscar winner Tilda Swinton, they're getting a little bit more attention. So I Am Love is one of those. We need to talk about Kevin. It's definitely one of those. Even Julia, the Eric Zonka movie, Julia. Which she's incredible in.

I don't know if I can fully stand. I mean, like, I remember the movie just being a lot. But, like, she is so tremendous. She's so good. strong enough to have gotten an Oscar nomination despite the fact that she's like all on her own. No one saw the movie. Right.

Even stuff like Only Lovers Left Live. Like that's, you know, it's another Jim Jarmish movie. But now all of a sudden it's like, you know, she and Tom Hiddleston kind of elevated the profile of that movie a little bit. And then I think her next phase after that starts with Snowpiercer, where it's like, it almost feels like Tilda being like, I'm a little bored. Like, what could I do now?

I'm just going to disappear into the weirdest realms of, like, makeup and role and, like, and so... She got a critics' choice nomination for Snoopiser? She definitely got a, like, I would say more than one precursor nomination from some, you know, far-flung places for Snowpiercer. Maybe it was BAFTA or something. She was definitely in the race. And then, but it's even like, oh, maybe I'll, like, be in a Judd-A-Petow movie and play, like, Amy Schumer's boss in train wreck. she rules and train wreck. Maybe I'll play twins in Hail Caesar for the Coens.

Like, it feels like everything she does is like, I'm going to like, I'll take this thing on a lark and then I'm going to like play the most extreme, like, do the most with it, right? Okja feels that way. And definitely Susperia feels that way. Where it's just like, cool, I'll make another movie with you, Luca. It's our third one. Maybe for this one I'll just like, I'll play three people. Well, I just throwing it out there. I asked her about the Lutz-Ebersdorf of it.

She's like, well, it seemed like a fun thing to do. And it's like, I think Tilda just likes to have a good time. She does. And who could possibly begrudge her that? And she's so funny, by the way. I know you haven't seen the French dispatch yet, but it's out this weekend. And she's... She's back in a caftan again after Cisterio, where she wears exclusively caftans

as Madame Blanc, which is just like, cozy queen... She is wearing the most resplendent. Creamsicle Caftan in the French Dispatch, and doing our friend Rob Watson said on Twitter last night, doing Barbara Walters as performed by Sherry O'Terry's accents, which like, he's not wrong. Okay, I'm excited. He's not wrong. She's also in Memoria this year, which again, I haven't seen, but like that's gotten a friend of us. Whenever the hell we get to see that movie, probably some time in 2024.

And she's also going to be in. Guillermo del Toro's Pinocchio, because apparently we can't get enough Pinocchio's. And she's playing, her character is called, as per Wikipedia, fairy with turquoise hair. And, like, I am sure that she will find a way to do the most with that. She's playing the demon twink, fairy with turquoise hair. Oh, my God, go away. So, um... Tilda Swinton has to be, you know, Hollywood's number one choice to play demon twink.

I'm sorry, I'm bringing this... I am too. I am too. I don't know why you're doing this to me. Clearly, Demon Twink will... Demon Twink is father, Susperiorum. Oh, my God. Bye. Goodbye, sir. Wait, so let's talk about Tilda and Suspirio for a second, though.

Do you feel like it pays off the fact that she's playing Dr. Clemperer, the fact that she's playing Madame Marcos in addition to Blanc? Because Blanc is the most grounded part of this movie, right? She feels the most like a regular, I mean, I guess like Mia Goth's character, too, or whatever, but Blanc's character just feels like, I'm like, yeah, she's a witch. I sort of have to keep reminding herself she's a witch because it's like, but she also just seems like she's just this dance instructor who wants to, seemingly wants to keep Susie as safe as possible while also ushering her into this kind of dark vessel kind of a place. And showing up at her house with chicken wings. Sending horrible dreams to her night all of a sudden. No, I mean, okay. So I think it equally appears like a stunt because it's a lot. But also there are some interesting ideas that I don't think the movie fully develops of like this reverberation of like your spirit or your person.

and, you know, your identity can, you know, be reflected throughout generations. It can be reflected in your enemy, like it very much literally is by Tilda Swinton, you know, playing Marcos and Blanc. This kind of paranoia that Guadonino is playing within this time period, I think it's interesting. I just don't think it fully develops it. That, to me, is the intention. Yeah. I think it's, I think the stuntiness of the Dr. Klemperer stuff makes it almost, I think I'm almost happy that it's a two and a half hour movie because it takes me a good while to get beyond the stuntiness of the fact that that's Tilda Swinton in there to really sort of settle into that character and understand the sort of pathos of what.

that guy's going through and the fact that, you know, the story of his wife and how he had, uh, he wasn't able to provide her with her papers and that's why she was taken by the Nazis and had no idea what happened to her. And, uh, it's a very sad story sort of at the, on the margins of this witch's story that's going on. Well, and having Tilda play these three very different roles that are engaging with, you know, the German history or German recent history of it all in very different ways and having a very different active role in it kind of ties those experiences together in a way that's maybe subconscious for the audience. Yeah, that's not a bad way of putting it at all. I think that's true. I also feel like, I think by the time Mia Gauth sort of

enters Dr. Klimperer's story. I think I'm locked in with that. I'm settled in. I feel like it's good. She's also quite good in this movie. Can we talk about how Mia Gauth rules by? Yeah, let's. She started as a model, has been working with

filmmakers such as Claire Deney and High Life, Luca Guadino, here. She's great in Emma. Did you see her? In Emma? She's great in Emma. She's great in Emma. She's so good, doing just this whole other mode, and I think, you know, shows that she can do something that's a little bit more, you know, mainstream-minded or for, you know, wider audiences. Mia Gauth is a really, really exciting young actor.

The way they use her character in Susperia, I really like it's, first, I think we didn't, haven't really talked about sort of the look of this movie beyond the, um, the sort of the political sort of illusions at the margins of what's going on. But, like, just the actual look of this movie, I think this movie caught a lot of flack for not being colorful because Argento's version, that's one of the first things you think about, is just the sort of like the high contrast technicolor, you know, the reds and magentas and oranges and sort of these, like, unreal colors that are accompanying all of these sort of horrific goings on. And if you look at it on a superficial level and you are being reactionary to the basically the color palette of this movie, it makes sense that some people would maybe respond to it like it's trying to be the opposite of what Dario Orgento is doing. Right. A lot of people were like, oh, it's colorless, it's beige. I saw a lot of that in reviews. People say, talking about how it's beige. And like, I don't think that's what this movie is at all. I think it's not. I feel like it's a more probably accurate depiction. of, you know, fashion and architecture of the setting that it's in.

Well, it's... A very specific time and place. It certainly isn't a... I don't... It certainly isn't that the choice was to make this movie devoid of color. Like, this movie has an incredibly interesting visual style. I think about things like, first of all, it feels like the sun has never shown,

shine, rather, in this city ever. But also just like, so much of this movie happens in, like, Rooms Without Windows, right? That you talk about, like, that mirrored room where Olga has her bones broken, which, like, put a pin in that because we still have to talk about that scene. But, like, that mirrored room, which is just, like, this glass box that is, like, reflecting upon itself, but it's reflecting no natural light, right? So it's just, like, it's closed in upon itself. Like, the studio itself, even when there are windows to the outside, it's rainy and gray outside. so like there is no there is no light coming in here and also the actual film style of it felt very intentionally 70s right i don't know enough about things like film stock or or lenses or whatever to explain how they managed to make this look like a 70s movie but there were times i was like a movie shot with modern cameras but 50 years ago sort of yeah where it's just like it's this um i guess kind of grainy um

the drabness of it felt very much like I was watching a movie that was like when I watched like the brood when I watched Cronenberg's The Brood recently sort of like that quality of just like it's it's less sharp it's less slick it feels very much like you're in the sort of very drab German environs in here and a lot of those scenes I was watching it I was just This really is kind of indistinguishable from a movie that would have been made in the late 1970s. And so I think the style is very much an active choice in this. It's just not magenta, glowy, you know, Argento stuff. And again, I don't think this movie gets very far by trying to ape that style anyway.

So the fact that it went for its own thing, I think ultimately is a good thing. And I think Mia Gauth's character, that's the tangent that I went with was Mia Gauth. The fact that Mia Gough's character is, she's not the lead, she's not, you know, she's not Dakota Johnson, she's not Tilda Swinton. But the fact that she becomes the sort of POV of the movie also feels very 70s horror to me, where all of a sudden it's just like, for no, seemingly no reason at all, we are following the secondary character. And ultimately, we're following the secondary character because the primary character turns out to be, you know, the witch all along. And we couldn't follow Susie because if we did, you know, we're not following the story of, you know, the girl who's trying to figure it out. And so there's a little bit of your sort of set off your balance a little bit by the fact that like all of a sudden it's, it's Sarah's story, right? It's it's Mia Goth's story.

And that to me also felt, again, very sort of like late 70s horror. Yeah. Do we want to talk about Tom York and the score and the music? Oh, boy. Let's do it. Let's, you know, I need to pull this bandaid off. I feel like I've maybe said it in older episodes. I'm just not cool. I don't go for Radiohead. I do love Tom York's film scores, but like, whenever he opens his mouth, it sounds like whales dying to me. I feel like if I had gotten into Radiohead at a younger portion in my life and sort of like evolved with them, I would be probably all. in on them. And I don't begrudge anybody who's super into Radiohead. It seems like a perfectly valid thing I'm super into. I feel like I'm the one who's not smart and not sure. I miss the boat. I don't even think it's a matter of like not smart. I genuinely feel like it's like I

miss the boat early. And because I miss the boat, I just like there's now too much too much ocean to span between me and where the boat is now. And like that's fine. I do like there are certain older, especially older, like certain radio had songs that like I was able to sort of form a context to outside of just sort of sitting and listening to albums where stuff like creep and um and uh and idiotic and uh fake plastic trees has sort of like bled into the culture some other place and so i've experienced those songs elsewhere and like i was like yeah they're really great stuff you know there's really good musicians nothing but respect for uh for tom york and johnny greenwood with their film work i don't think the tom york stuff works as well

as it needs to in Susperia for being as jarring as it is. I think to be this jarring really has to work like gangbusters and I don't think it does. Well, the original song which plays over the opening credits which feels like a prologue

that is so easy to just like yank out of this overlong movie. Yeah. Where you see Susie's life in, you know. Ohio. I'm not sure menonite. I can't remember whether it's that her family

was men and, and then became Amish or was Amish and then became Mennonite. There's one point where she talks about how one faction wasn't conservative enough for her, for her family's liking, so they moved to the other. Whatever it was, it was like, we're going to be the more extremely religious one. It's like, cool. But the thing I think about this movie in relation to Oscar is I actually think the song is the closest that it got to Oscar.

It made the short list, right? I didn't have time to look it up, but I'm pretty sure the song made the, bake-off list, but the score did not, which, like, it should be the other way around. It should be. Because, like, the Volk sequence, which we also haven't talked about yet, that score is incredible. Yeah. Yeah, I think the score is great. The songs really take me out.

The songs seem too modern. Like, the movie has taken such pains to place itself within this specific time and place, and all of a sudden, I'm listening to a Radiohead song. And it's just like, it seems, and because Radiohead is so associated with this, kind of hipness. I'm like, why all of a sudden are we trying to be this hip in this movie? I don't think it works. And it's also, it's, there's a song that plays during the bloodbath scene at the end.

I'm like, this also doesn't work for me. It just seems too... And tonally, it's very strange. It's too showy. It's too clever. It's too, you know, it's too much for me. Yeah. But you're right about the score and you're right about the dancing scenes and the way that

the music sort of plays. The dancing scenes in this movie are really, really well done. This was around the time that, like, me and fellow weirdos were like, we need to bring back special achievement Oscars, or we need to have a choreography Oscar, because there were so many examples of, like, dancing in movies that were interesting, that were, like, very integral to the movie, and Susperia would have been, you know, a great nominee or win for a potential choreography category. Do you think there's a possible way to do a choreography category at the Oscars that would encompass both dance choreography and fight choreography?

Or are those two separate things that you couldn't square within one category? I mean, there are two very, very separate things, and I can't imagine what, like, that branch of the Academy that would be voting on it would look like. But, like, the problem with a choreography Oscar is that, you know, know, you may not have enough. Well, that's why I thought you could, if you add, if you add fight choreography, you would at least have enough, you know, movies to have an award every year, right? That's an interesting idea, though. I mean, you probably would have enough movies in a year to do a fight category.

I just wonder, right, right. But I just wonder if you, you know, you could do a category where you have, like, you know, four punchy punchy movies and then, like, you know, whatever. Volk, which is essentially punch choreography. Right, or like, whatever, step up 3D and then... We could have had Oscar nominee step up to the streets. Listen, we should have had Oscar nominee. Well deserved, very well-deserved.

The best scene of the movie, I would wager, and I'm wondering if you agree, is the scene where Dakota Johnson dances poor Olga to a pile of broken bones. This is also the scene that was the first footage scene of the movie. I didn't realize that scene screened before the movie released. I don't like that decision. Oh, yes. Okay, so CinemaCon this year. CinemaCon is, I don't feel like we've ever talked about cinema con.

No. We should have for Cats because they showed, they had Jennifer Hudson singing in memory at Cinemacom for Cats. Right, right. CinemaCon this year almost didn't happen because of COVID, and it takes place in Vegas every year. Oh, right. Make that what you will.

But CinemaCon is basically. studios presenting their year's worth of content for theater exhibitors. Wasn't there a thing called show West at one point

that felt like that too? I think so too. And what they did, first of all, they presented the Susperia footage during a luncheon. So everyone's having lunch while they show

this scene where this woman is like... Oh, I hope it was like axtale and marrow or something. Yeah, yeah. Right. The very iconic scene

where, you know, Dakota Johnson is dancing the lead of Volk for the first time. She studied it, watched it a hundred times on videos from the library. But it's like her first...

It's her first rehearsal. Like, she just joined the group. And she's like, I could do this. I watched it on. It's the equivalent of somebody being like, yeah, watched YouTube. Like, I can, I get it. Like, that's... And this other character who has, uh, basically excommunicated herself from the dance

academy has been mystically lured into this entirely mirrored dance hall, where as Dakota Johnson is doing these very aggressive movements, it's flinging her across the room. It's breaking her bones. It's bending her backwards and like contorting her body into, this... Breaking her bones in the most visceral, like, the folly work in there is just... Spirius should be a sound nominee for this sequence of... One million percent. Like, again, if the Academy would just watch... I'm just like, watch all the movies.

You know what I mean? And like... Well, but also think outside of the box. You know... It's such an effective scene. Like, if you are not, if your body is also not sort of like moving and gnarled and like trying to, like, escape. You know, the skin that you're in during the scene?

It's also a bloodless scene. It's the most grotesque horror scene that I can think of of recent years off the top of my head, except for maybe something in, like, raw. But it's bloodless. Like, she pukes and pees, but there's no, like, gore. And it's also, like, it's horrifying, but it's also sad because you're just like, I just so, like, she can't escape, and she's, like, She's all alone in this room, and her body is just sort of violently doubling back on itself.

And the very first thing you see of it, beyond she gets flung around a little bit, but the first sort of bone-crunching moment is her jaw gets, like, knocked to the side of her face. And it's just so, and you see it, and it's right in front of your face, and it's so viscerally horrifying. It's just, it's horror to its most pure degree. and that is by far, like, the ending bloodbath is what it is, right? There's a lot of exploding heads and bloodspring everywhere and whatever, and that is what it is. But by far, the most horrifying moment of this movie is this. And again, it's in this all-mirrered room where it's like, it's not, there are no shadows

in this room, there's no darkness. It is, you know, it's interior light. Again, there's no sunshine in this movie, but it's just like, it's all fully lit. and like you just they pull off the scene too with very very little CGI because this actress is also a contortionist and they use prosthetics and yeah yeah it is so it feels it's a wonderful thing that's remarkably tangible at the same time it's a but like you know we as an audience I think were prepared for it because the cinema con audience like it was making headlines because

there's, like, people losing their lunch watching this scene, and they had, and, of course, it had never been seen by any kind of audience whatsoever. Always tickles me, pink. Whoever's idea it was to play

it during lunch knew exactly what they were doing. Again, I just wanted to have been, like, chicken wings or something like that. Just something where, like, it's just like discarding a pile of bones into like a bowl or something in the center of the in the center of the table something like that what we should say this movie did most the movie's like biggest award success was actually at indie spirits which seems wild yes it had 20 million dollar budget which i think is their budget cap in recent years

and it's always famously sort of the budget cap is always famously fungible anyway right Like, if you ask them nicely, they'll let you slide. Exactly. But it also wins a prize we've never talked about before. The Robert Altman Prize, which Indy Spirit, like, gives to a movie basically for its director and ensemble that, like, the idea is the prize is for a group collaborative effort. It's named after Robert Altman. Right. So through the years, it was named Robert Altman.

Wikipedia is annoying because it only lists. from 2007 on, which is when it was named after Robert Altman. But, like, movies that have won, I'm Not There, Synecichy, New York, a serious man, please give one the one year, which is, like, fantastic. Like, what a well-chosen. Great call. The idea, though, is that they aren't supposed, like, you get that prize and you're not going to be eligible elsewhere.

And, of course, they have fudged that, just like they fudged the rest of their rules. Yes. Last night it was... But like that picture winners, spotlight, and moonlight. I think mostly it's a way for them to get around the acting categories. Whereas, like, if you get the Altman Prize, you're not going to be nominated in other acting categories. And oftentimes that frees them up then to nominate more sort of off the path. So, like, when they nominated Marriage Story, they can, you know, that frees up a bunch of slots in a lot of categories because you don't have Driver and Dern and Scarlett Johansson.

Susperia wasn't didn't really seem like it was a threat to have shown up in the individual acting categories, which makes this a little bit of a curious case. And also a lot of times their ensemble prize, there will be sort of a hook to it, right? If it's not. Well, there's a hook to this one. Well, there's a lot of hooks to this one. But like you talk about like Moonlight, the fact that like that's how they were able to nominate all three actors who played Chiron, right? Because it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's. It's an ensemble prize, or something like Spotlight, where there's like eight bajillion supporting actors, and it's just like, well, we'll nominate all of them. Whereas Susperia, it felt like, I guess, the hook of it is, you know, we're getting Tilda Swinton for all of these performances. We're getting, like Jessica Harper, who was in the original Susperia, who plays Dr. Clemper's wife, who sort of mystically shows up in this movie. And then all of these dancers, right, who I think it's sort of a back way.

a backwards way of honoring, like, the Coven, right? All of these, like... All of who are giving really specific but very small performances that, like, to me, this prize is really cool to honor those performers who, like, probably wouldn't, like, no other group would think of this movie for an ensemble prize. I think her name is Angela Winkler, who plays Miss Tanner, who was sort of the the right hand of Madame Blanc through most of this.

She's the one who's at Madame Marcos's side during the finale. She's the one. And we find out, interestingly, that she has spared because she voted for Blanc over Marcos. But she's really fantastic in this movie. And I can't think of everybody's name who I want to point out in this ensemble of witches. but like it's a really like it's it's cool that they all got their piece of that prize I thought yeah so what other there's so many other scenes in this movie that I feel like we need to at least just like briefly talk about because there's so much movie I

I kind of love the scene where Susie peeks in on the witches like yes it's freezing these men These cops who come looking for Patricia, for Claire Grace-Maris. Yeah, and they, like, get the hook out and start playing with his penis and laughing. They're laughing at him, I know. Never commented again. Like, Susie just leaves, like, well, that was fucking weird. Well, but that's, I think, the first indication that, like, why is Susie not more, like, weirded out by these, like, this witchcraft sort of happening in front of her? And she never tells she's with, like, Mia Goth is in that room with her, and she doesn't watch it.

But, like, she doesn't tell me a goth that, like, this really unsettling and disturbing thing is happening. So you sort of get, there's, you know, this suspicion that sort of falls on Susie a little bit early on, or at least when you watch it back again, you're just like, ah, I see, I see what's going on there. What did you make of these sort of kaleidoscopic dreams that Susie is given by Marcos, that sort of, or by Blanc, rather, to sort of prep her for this transformation that also mix in with her own memories. I don't think the plot aspects of how Susie ends up being revealed as Mother Susperiora matter too much. But I was sort of curious as to whether do you feel like she was always Mother Susperiora back in Ohio, or did these sort of dreams kind of open her up as a vessel for Mother's Asperiorum to, like, sneak her way in?

Or does that, I'm sure it doesn't matter to me very much. I feel like because when she talks about her life in Ohio and we see those flashbacks to where she's, like, looking at the map and it, like, all is centered around Berlin. Drawing all these lines to Berlin, yeah. Yeah, the suggestion is, like, there has always been something that she doesn't understand that compels her. to this dance academy that is ultimately revealed to her but have always been there since she was a child. So to me,

the idea is that she has always been the mother's superiorum. I think that's right. And it's more about a self-actualization of discovering the thing that you always intrinsically have been. Yes. And so these dreams that she has

are like these quick cut things to sort of horrify, imagery in one way and other. Some of them are flash forwards. Some of them are flashbacks. Some of them are just sort of like this like Ken Russell style. Yeah, just like flashes of like bizarreness. And part of it I was like, okay, this is like effectively unsettling.

Part of it I felt like it's a little showy on Lucas part to just be like, look at all this like spooky shit. Like try and figure it out. And ultimately there's no, there is, it's not a puzzle. It's not a puzzle meant to be figured out. And sometimes I feel like, sometimes I do get a little bit annoyed with directors who put in things in their movie that clearly feel like puzzles to be figured out.

And then after the movie, be like, no, you weren't meant to try and figure it out. And it's just like, motherfucker, you're the one who put it there. Like, I am just a human being with rational impulses whose brain is wired towards the idea of taking random imagery and finding patterns in there.

That is the way the human brain is oriented. So don't blame me for wanting to figure it out. Ultimately, I'm fine with it. But there's a little bit in me that is like sometimes I feel like directors now take this little like get out of jail free card of like you weren't supposed to know all the answers. And it's like, oh, shut up. Like, you know what I mean? Like I'm fine with ambiguity too, but also shut up like a little bit. I love Luca.

I don't necessarily think that he's trying to put in a puzzle. to be solved in those sequences. I feel like it's more... But I also feel like he walks out of that movie being like, yeah, you're not supposed to care... You're not supposed to know what all those things are. Right? Like, that's...

Right? I mean, maybe. Maybe not. I get the sense that he knows exactly what everything means in this movie. Sure. Yes. And we just have to catch up. Like, I think it's there to be solved, but, like, I do still feel a little stupid when I watch this movie.

Yeah. Mostly, I mean, I feel like I find myself a lot of times lately just being like, the movie's just a vibe. And like, so I do kind of feel that way. And maybe that's like me being a little bit lazy in my assessments of things. But I think a lot of Suspira is a vibe. Like, it's just sort of is, right? It's just, you know, you're on a little bit of a ride. And I mostly enjoyed it.

It is not a perfect movie. but it's two and a half hours well spent as far as I'm concerned. Yeah, it's a movie that I like wrestling with for those two and a half hours. Yes, I think that's a good way to put it. Yeah. I would also say if we want to talk about like kind of the awards failure of it, this is a rough year for Amazon. Amazon, I feel like is well, like no shade to Amazon, but like historically both for television and for movies, they drop the, all on a lot of things that are not the greatest at campaign.

And yet this year, 2018, was one of their more, like, degree of difficulty in getting that director nomination for Cold War is pretty significant, and they got it. And they basically turned it into a thing where people are, like, looking for the non-English language film that's going to be nominated for Best Director. Right, right. And so. But they also, I mean, maybe, maybe this is me back. tracking a little bit but they also campaigned that well because everything else kind of fell apart

because they also had in this year they had life itself yes famous disaster yeah um beautiful boy which was not well received but like timmy shallomay like stuck around for probably probably you know sixth i would say probably probably yeah they had peterloo and ended up pushing it off which like and then did nothing with it yeah yeah that movie's way better than then, you know, it was received. Yeah, I'm trying to envision how they would have needed to campaign that movie, because that movie is not Oscar. They needed better reviews out of the festivals.

Yeah, that's probably true. But I still feel like, yes, I think that's true. I think it's tough to tell whether they campaigned Beautiful Boy poorly or they got Beautiful Boy closer than it had any right to get to a nomination when it comes to show me. So, like, six of one, half dozen of another, right? life itself it's not a performance I love so I was fine right I like it better than you we've talked about this before and like I really don't like the movie and I think it's probably people not liking the movie is the reason that kept him out but credit to them and Cold War is a movie I feel like we saw Cold War together as well at Tiff and I did it because I saw that movie pretty late oh did you I was underwhelmed by I was underwhelmed by it too and but the fact that they were able to We were in the minority of that. Most people really, really liked it.

And the fact that they grasped that early and, like, rode that horse. And, like, they really campaigned that movie. They campaigned that movie hard. And there was a lot of that season where I was like, what are they doing pushing Cold War? And part of it was because I wasn't a huge fan of it. So I was like, why are you wasting our time bringing up Cold War again? Like, who cares? It turned out to be the movie they had the best chance with.

They knew more than I did. They were smart and I was dumb. and they got not only best foreign language nomination out of it, but a best director nomination. What won that year? Was that the year that a fantastic woman won foreign language?

Yes. Okay. Yes. Which is also some great campaigning because to beat the film that has a best director nomination in your category is pretty good. That's pretty well done. But anyway, good on, yeah, like, weird year for Amazon, but ultimately one of their better awards moments happened in that year with Cold War.

They've got a lot on deck this year. We'll see if any of it sticks. So this year, let's remind the listeners, because they might not know what we're talking about. Being the Ricardo's. Which is getting rushed, which that alone keeps me skeptical, aside from all the things that people are skeptical about that movie. Okay, can we talk about the reception for that trailer? sure people acted like it was like the worst thing they'd ever seen in their entire life when i think the correct response to that trailer would have been like this is a teaser for a

trailer it's like right a minute long but i think people are so ready to pounce on that movie that i'm just like at least wait to like see it at least like if you're going to decide that you're gonna like make this your punching bag for this year at least fucking see it but like Like, what was their daughters, because they had this whole thing of Desi and Lucy's daughter commenting on the movie? Lucy Arna. And she said something to the effect of, it doesn't matter that she's not trying to look or sound like her, which to me says, like, that might be not a terrible idea to do for a movie who has such a, for a figure in Hollywood history that has such a distinct and iconic look. Well, ultimately, that seemed clear to me when they cast Nicole Kidman. Like, they're not going for impersonation.

Well, and Lucy, outside of performing, carried herself very differently, sounded very differently. Right. So, like, I could be very much on board with that. But then why make this big deal out of hiding Nicole Kidman? It doesn't make any sense to me. Except for the fact that my, see, my reasoning there is they understand how social media works now and that if you put her face there, like look at how much that small little glimpse of her doing the grape stomping has gone, has made the round from filming. Right. Has, right.

And I think the paparazzi stuff and the reaction to that, I think they know that the second her face is there outside of context. text, it's going to, it's going to be a real danger of this, like, wave of negative buzz. And ultimately, there's nothing you can do about it. Ultimately, you got to have a trailer and you're going to have to show her sometime. Also, how quickly can they put all this shit together? They were filming this in March. But, yes. But I think in trying to get ahead of that, you know, social media reaction, they created another social media reaction, right? So now all of a sudden, And because social media is so smart, now everybody is hip to the idea of, oh, they're hiding her. Why are they hiding her?

It must be bad. Oh, she sounds so weird. Oh, her accent. Oh, whatever. It's just like double birds, y'all. Like, fuck off. Like, I don't want to be like... I understand, like, people who really love, uh, you know, the legacy of I love Lucy.

That's not who these people are. Like, yeah. I saw some people who do it that they were not into, I think the, uh, the, the, the, The 20 level, people who align with that are probably not going to be on board for the movie, period. The 20-something cigarette emojis I saw coming for this movie were not people who were coming at it because they were in love with Lucille Ball's legacy. That was just like, I don't know. Not to be like, don't come for Nicole Kidman unless she sends for you, but don't come for Nicole Kidman unless she sends for you. Just like, fuck off.

I don't know. I don't know. Though also this year will have, did I say the tender bar? You didn't, but I'm very interested to see what kind of a campaign. Why the hell would they allow reviews of that movie to be out there and show it to critics and press two months before it's supposed to come out for it to only get these widely negative reviews? Is that what happens? First of all, we shouldn't trust George Clooney as a director anymore, period. But, like, even Ben Affleck is getting better notices for the last duel than he is for this movie.

All of a sudden, Ben Affleck's one of the more interesting aspects of this award season. And, like, remember how annoyed we were last year that they tried to, like, make Ben Affleck in the basketball movie happen? And we were just like... That movie that we both hated. Right. And it was super annoying. And I remember just being, like, stop. This is not a thing.

Stop trying to make this a thing. And now I like, and you know I still don't like Ben Affleck, but like begrudgingly, I must admit that he much like, much like everything, much like everything in the last duel. I'm just like, yes, fine, I really liked it. Like shut up. So he's not in it that much. No. I think the performance that he gives in the way that he gives it is an integral piece to the puzzle. Plus, he is just such an, like his, his. position as a celebrity is so unique that there is absolutely no way of predicting in either direction what is going to happen with an Oscar campaign for him. You and I were talking earlier this week how unusual it is the fact that this is a guy with two Oscars, none of which are in the two fields you would most associate him with, which are acting and directing. He has two Oscars. None of them for acting or directing. And he's part of this, like, absolute media phenomenon with Jennifer Lopez.

And yet, I think people are still unsure to what degree they like him or they ironically like him. Like, it's hard to grasp how people feel about Ben Affleck. And that's how it's been for him for the last 15 years of his career. like really truly he's such an odd one for somebody who doesn't seem to be doing much like it's not like you know he's out there doing the most but he's making himself available for all of us to sort project all these things onto him and like it's fascinating and also i don't like it so i don't know where to come at this i am skeptical about the amazon tender bar movie being a movie that gets him nominated um amazon also has the asgar for haughty a hero right excited for which feels like

has existed for like five years at this point well can feels like it was a million years ago even though this year's can was later than usual yeah um we will see maybe that could be the uh non-english language film that gets a best director nomination this year we shall see the riz Ahmed movie that i hated at tiff encounter it's kind of a siph Yeah, that's kind of not going, I don't think that's going to be a thing. No one's going to watch it, I don't think, unfortunately. He's great in the movie, movie is bad. I agree. I agree with that.

They also have the electrical life of Louis Wayne, which I don't think will get very far because Benedict Cumberbatch leads a whole other movie that's getting a lot of attention. We've talked about movies like that in the Oscar race before. Yeah, I think Amazon's got being the Ricardo's and that feels like that's the horse that's going to ride and its award season narrative will be, We'll live or die with that one, and we'll certainly see how it goes. The one that I'm very curious if they're going to go there or not, my suspicions say they are not, is Annette. Because I love to net, I really feel like that would be a great best score nominee.

But we'll see. Yeah, I wouldn't put a whole lot of stock in it. Have you watched Annette? No, it's been waiting there for me. And it's one of those things where it's like, I'm very excited to see it, but I need to have it on a night where I have absolutely no distractions and no whatever. And like, I want to be like in the right space for it. And I just haven't been yet.

So, and it's also long. I mean, I think if you're expecting a heady experience, you're going to come away disappointed. I think. I don't know what experience I'm expecting, which is I'm excited for. I just know that it's, you know, two hours and 20 minutes of time that I really have to like set aside. Listeners should check that movie out. It's wild. I will.

I intend to. Worth your time. All right. We've been at this for a while. Anything else about Suspira before we move on to the IMDV game? Justin, there is an update on the eastern block. Blanc has surged ahead and has a slight lead. Again, if you are in line, stay in line for Blanc.

The email vote or the early voting and the mail-in voting, is expected to come in heavily for Marcos, so I don't, I, prospects for Blanc don't look good right now. She doesn't, has not amassed enough of a position to withstand the onslaught of, of early voting and email voting. Email voting. Why do I keep saying email voting? Fake news. Could you imagine? Anyway. Not to make this especially curse, but like, who's the Gary Johnson in the Marcos Blanc election? Oh, that's the sort of short woman with the Curly hair, who really seems to relish the idea of everybody wielding the hooks. Like, yeah, she's the spoiler.

She's definitely the spoiler. She's not the, like, Jill Stein. Or, no, Jill Stein is the one that Mia Gauth comes upon in the basement who doesn't seem to have hands or feet, but is just sort of crawling around. That's sort of that creature that we never really got a ton of explanation for. That's the Jill Stein. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Susperia. Go watch it.

You can watch it right now on Amazon Prime. That's right. Yeah. All right. Joe, would you like to explain for our lovely listeners? Actually, no. Let's do this ahead of the IMDB game. Okay. Listeners, we've got some news for you. Something exciting. As you know, we like to end the calendar year with a mailbag episode. And we are once again going to be doing that. We will be taking your questions to do a special episode,

just all centered around your questions. So we will accept all of your questions either at our Twitter account at Had underscore Oscar underscore Buzz, or you can email us at Had Oscar Buzz at at Gmail.com. Try to stay away from questions like, when will you do this movie? Or, you know, questions that like ask us to name the one movie that represents X or something because you know we're gay people we contain multitudes we can't be reduced down to one thing or an opinion on one thing but send us your questions anything about previous Oscar years previous Oscar contenders the current season our thoughts on actors or actresses of general variety Joe do you have any ideas on like fun questions listeners could ask oh I don't know I mean I'm

sure we'll get our fair share of a month by the lake questions, but maybe if you only get one question. What if the lake voted for Marcos? You have to explode the head of the lake, then. Yeah, yeah, that's probably true. But, yes, throughout the month of November, so from November 1st, which is the day that this episode drops, through the end of November, send us in your questions. We're going to be doing that at the end of the year.

also we are coming up on another uh what what what what is something when it happens every 25 times quarter centennial yeah yes essentially there's some latin term for it yeah yeah we're not smart enough to know the word for it but every 25 episodes we always do a listener's choice so guys also in december we're going to be doing a listener's choice so you can submit the episode that you would want us to cover most for our episode 175. Once again, our Twitter is Hadd underscore Oscar underscore Buzz. You can also email your submission to us at Had Oscar Buzz at gmail.com. Last time we did one of these like grand open ones, it was Widows.

It very, very much led the polls, but we still did a poll. We'll keep you guys posted on how the votes are shaking down if it'll be a poll or if we won't need one this time. but we have both a mailback coming and a listener's choice. So send in your submissions for questions you want answered and the movie you want covered. Chris, what if the lake in question is Lake Ebersdorf and it is played by Tildeswin? Lake spelled with an umlaut or something. Yes, exactly. It's L-E-I with an umlout K.

That is probably not pronounced lake, but... We'll go with it. All right. I feel like Tilda would demand a numlau. All right. Should I tell the... How about the IMDB? Tell the people about the IMDB game.

I think I will. Every week, we end our episodes with the IMDB game, where we challenge each other with an actor or actress to try and guess the top four titles that IMD says they are most known for. If any of those titles are television, voice-only performances, or non-acting credits, we remember... If...

If... If any of those titles are television, voice-only performances, or non-acting credits, we mention that up front. After two wrong guesses, we get the remaining titles release years as a clue. If that's not enough, it just becomes a free-for-all of hints. That's it. That is indeed the IMTB game. That's it.

Would you like to give or guess first, sir? I'll give first. All righty. Whomst, do you have for me? Well, we talked about the great Dakota Johnson. And we talked about how she got famous for being in a trilogy of movies about love and contract negotiations called The Fifty Shades movies. And her co-star in those was one, Mr. Jamie Dornan. So, Chris, Jamie Dornan, four known for is one of them as television.

Well, the thing is, I don't think you would give me Jamie Dornan if there were three. 50 Shades movies in there. But I'm going to guess that there's more than one, and I'm going to say 50 Shades of Grey, and 50 Shades Darker is in there. One strike. Fifty Shades of Gray is there. No 50 Shades Darker.

Wow. Okay. So you have one. I mean, that's surprising. Indeed. What was he on TV with? it was wasn't there one of a million

Julian Anderson's million TV shows was it that do you remember the title of course not yes you're right it's the TV show he was on with Jillian Anderson

where he played a serial killer and she was investigating him it was called the fall okay two more I'm trying to think of Jamie Dornan things because he was also on once upon a time that was the thing that i had first seen him in he played

the the huntsman of snow white and the huntsman fame but uh obviously not there yes the thing about jamie dornan is all that i can think of is recent he was just in the bee movie was it bees in wild mountain time i've still not seen wild mountain time i'm saving it i'm saving it for like a literal rainy day like i really want to like i'm saving it for this fucking podcast, because I'm not watching that twice. Yes. And then Barb and Star, but like... Listeners, if you want us to watch Wild Mountain Time, vote for it in listeners' choice, it's all say.

I don't think Wild Mountain Time. Oh, that's the one stipulation that we didn't say. It has to be... Oh, right. It can't be a 2020 movie. Yeah, 2019 and early. Right, so you can't vote for Wild Mountain Time. Listeners, for next year's listeners' choice, remember to vote for Wild Mountain Time. Well, I mean, unless we're really trying to avoid COVID,

the first 20-20 movie could be in whenever the Oscar ceremony is. I thought that was our rule. I mean, I guess I'll just get my years and I'll say, was he the one nominated for Wild Mountain Time or was Emily Blunt nominated for Wild Mountain Time or was predicted for it? I'll just say Wild Mountain Time. It is not, and now I want to look up

who was the nominations for Wild Mountain Time. She was the one who was buzzed for it, definitely. She didn't end up getting any nominations. It did get nominated by the AARP Movies for Grownups Awards for Best Grown-up Love Story. But we'll get into that in a year or so when we review Wild Mountain Time. All right, so two strikes.

Your remaining years are 2018 and 2021. Oh, wow. Is 2021, I mean, it could already, be Belfast, but I think that's so soon. Is it Barb and Star? It's Barb and Star go to Vista Del Mar, my friend. I mean, that's great.

We love Barb and Star. We love Barb and Star. That's wild. Get ready for us to be absolutely insufferable, stumping for that movie to get a best original song nomination. It's not eligible. It was the last calendar year.

It was the last award ceremony. Oh, because of the weird calendar. Frick. Uh-huh. You're right. Well, I'm going to be insufferable anyway. That's my right. I mean, you might be insufferable without this.

Hey. Tone. I love you. Tone. Okay, you said 2018 is that 50 Shades freed. It is not 50 Shades freed. It is only one 50 Shades movie on his whole IMDB, which is why I decided to bring him to you because I thought that was intriguing.

Okay, so his is all pretty fucking recent, but. I mean, I guess that makes sense for him, but I don't know what this is going to be. All right. This was a movie. His name is on the poster, although his face is not. He is second build on the poster. It's one of those posters where it's three names in the cast, and the ones, names on either side are listed as Academy Award nominee. And it's poor Jamie Dornan in the middle with nothing above his name, which is,

which is kind of too bad. The lead of this movie got a nomination, but it wasn't an Oscar nomination that year. The lead of this movie was Oscar nominated that year. No. The lead of this movie got a nomination somewhere that season, but it wasn't for the Oscar. Oh, okay.

For this movie? Yes. Okay. Was it BAFTA? No Was it the Globes? Yes This movie is the thing

Yes It also got a song nomination at the Globes It's a movie we could do for this podcast Um The lead Oh Is that 2018 What are you thinking?

I was thinking, you know, the one that the Globes love, Ms. Roz Pike, in the, the, the, the, the, the, um, I never saw this movie. Uh, she has an iPad. She's the, she's a reporter, right? She, no. What's it called? I'm going to make you remember it. No, it's called, uh, it's called a private war. You got it, but, uh, he's in that? Yeah, he's second build. That's interesting. Isn't it, though? Yeah. A private war.

Yeah, so you got it, even though two of them you got without remembering the titles. But you know what? Barb and Star Go to Vista Del Mar has title enough for... It's the power of Trish. That's how I got there. It is the power of Trish. Good job. All righty.

So for you, I went into the Susperia history, actually, of the version that was almost made by David Gordon. he attracted several prestige actresses. Who did I choose for you, none other than probably my favorite actress, Ms. Isabel O'Pere? We've never done Isabelle Huper. According our records, we have not. All right. All right, let's do this.

Cracking my knuckles. Let's get into it. L. Correct. Her Oscar nomination. All right, Isabel, the piano teacher. Piano teacher. Which I've still not seen, but one of these days I will.

That's a movie you should watch when you have nothing to bother you, no one at all. Yeah. This is why I end up watching trash so much because it's just like, ah, I don't have to, my brain doesn't have to be in peak condition to watch this movie. All right. All right. Isabel. I'm feeling like...

What direction are we going to go with? I mean, you don't have any wrong answers yet. I know. I'm hesitant to say Huckabee's because she's probably very far down the cast list in that, even though she's great. Greta? No, not Greta.

Please, only homosexuals have. have seen that movie. Yeah, but there's more of us than you think. And we all use IMDB. You can just insert the clip of her going, I deserve better. Neil Jordan's Greta. One of these days when I win the lottery and buy a movie theater to run at a loss for the rest of my life, I'm going to program...

Greta will be programmed around the clock every day. I'm going to program Chloe and Greta as a double feature. You have to watch both. both um all right who directed chloe uh adam ogoia yes thank you all right um i feel like there's one really obvious one that i'm missing at least right uh you only have one wrong answer i cannot yeah you cannot all right i'm gonna guess i heart Hockabees is incorrect yeah that's what i figure All right, what are my years? Your years are 2002 and 2016.

2002 is going to fuck me up. 2016, so was it also the Mia Hanson Love movie? Now I'm going to, what was that called? I'll give it to you since you helped me out so much. It's things to come. Things to come. Yes, all right, all right. I'm one of those psychos.

I'm just going to out myself here, and I'm allowed to do that because I am one of the leading Isabelouper stands, I feel like, I would have nominated her for things to come over Elle. I know that that is like full fighting words. I liked things to come better than I liked Elle. I get why Elle was the performance that sort of attracted. Right, because it's so much the culmination of her career. And like I said this before, I've said it again, she is a performer who has had that. several times in her career. The piano teacher is definitely also one of them.

So it's like, it makes sense that it's L. It feels like it's a culmination of everything that we think about when we think about Isabella Pair. But I still think things come to better performance. So can I ask if Piano Teacher is 2001 or 2000, right? Mm-hmm. So it's before this next one. A piano teacher is listed as 2001.

It was released in the States early 2002. All right, I'm going to risk embarrassing myself because she might not be in this movie at all, and I might be thinking of a totally different movie, because I haven't seen it. There was a movie called Eight Women, and I don't know if she's in it or not, but it may be that. She is indeed in it. She is incredible in it. She is hilarious in it, and it is on her known. Oh, good.

Okay. All right. I wouldn't have picked this. if there was something that you didn't know what the movie was. You would love this movie. It's a musical. It's wonderful. Is it, didn't it get, like, remade as something, or am I thinking of something else?

I don't know about that, but the distinction of eight women is, it's the movie that Uper, she won with all of the actresses in the movie. They won Best Actress at the Berlin Film Festival. So it's the movie that got her a best actress prize at Cannes for Lynn. I see. And like it's a bunch of like, it's like Catherine de Nive, right? Yes. All right. See, I knew some stuff about it.

I should see it. I was, if not that, I was going to guess, like, whatever the next Michael Hanukkah movie she made after the piano teacher that I couldn't remember which one that was. But I knew it was something that I hadn't seen. A Time of the Wolf is after piano teacher, but there's also a more. and happy end well yes yeah happy end was much much later

but I knew there was one right in the early 2000s after piano teacher but glad I got it right with eight women yay yeah fantastic yeah guys that is our episode

if you want more this had Oscar Buzz you can check out the Tumblr at this had oscarbuzz.tumlr.com should also follow us on Twitter at had underscore Oscar underscore Buzz definitely tweet at us both your listener's choice submission

and your mailback questions, but you can also email those to Had Oscar Buzz at Gmail. Joe, where can the listeners find more of you? Sure. I'm on Twitter at Joe Reed, read spelled R-E-I-D. I'm on letterboxed as Joe Reed read spelled the same way. I am also on Twitter and letterbox at Chris V. File, dancing to Volk. We would like to thank Kyle Cummings for his fantastic artwork and Dave Gonzalez and Gavin Mievous for their technical guidance. Please remember to rate, like, and review us on Spotify, Apple

podcast, Google Play Stitcher, wherever else you get those podcasts. Five-star review in particular really helps us out with Apple podcast visibility. So stop working the polls for Blanc or Marcos and write us a nice review. That is all for this week. We hope you'll be back next week for more buzz.

Bye. If your head hasn't been exploded in our dance academy basement. Blanc! I thought you were going to say Marcos. It's fine. Oh, Marcos. I'm not voting for Marcos. I'm going to make you I'm up for Marcos. I'm going to put you on the record as voting for Marcos.

This is a lie. Thank you.