This Had Oscar Buzz - 174 – All is True

Episode Date: December 6, 2021

In 2018, perhaps the only audience that noticed All Is True were our belove AARP Movies for Grownups awards. The film is directed by and stars Kenneth Branagh as William Shakespeare returning home to his underappreciated wife and daughters after his Globe Theatre burned to the ground mid-production, reopening wounds of unspoken family tragedy. The period drama … Continue reading "174 – All is True"

Uh-oh, wrong house. No, the right house. I didn't get that! We want to talk to Marilyn Hacks. I'm from Canada. I'm from Canada water. your talent has a greater scope than all the other poets and yet you've lived the smallest life

family is everything it's love not ambition that will blossom in this garden well something has to I'm not a good gardener it's true my husband thinks you've come home to die I've just bought a pension I can't die for at least 10 years or I'll be ruined you went to London and became this great writer

with a wife at home you were hardly here to us you're a guest Good night, husband. Retirement hasn't exactly brought the piece we might have hoped for. Hello and welcome to the This Had Oscar Buzz podcast, the only podcast that wants to be boozy, flusy Rachel Weiss when we grow up. Every week on This Had Oscar Buzz, we'll be talking about a different movie that once upon a time had lofty Academy Award aspirations, but for some reason or another, it all went wrong. The Oscar hopes died, and we are here to perform the autopsy. I'm your host, Joe Reed.

I'm here as always with my merry wife of Windsor, Chris Fyle. Hello, Chris. Oi. Oi, what's all this then? It's going to be a very Kenneth Brenna episode. Very much so. A very Kenneth Branagh episode for what could be a very Kenneth Branagh Oscar season. So we are being very on point and of the moment right now with this, bringing you all is true.

Our least existing movie we've maybe ever done. This movie has always seemed like a real. rumor, a fairy tale, a urban legend that you tell people that possibly could be true. Is it all true? Is it true? Is it all true? Oh, I've been getting ready to make that joke. No, little kids will just, in hush tones, like, ask their parents, like, did Judy Dench really win an AARP Movies for Grownups Award for a movie called All Is True? And you'll say, I. I, it's true. A movie that has been a myth, a legend, perhaps a punchline for podcasts such as ourselves?

Not us, never. I can't imagine. I can't imagine we would ever do that. Yeah, so we've cruised well past the six-timers mark for Judy Dengch, and right now it all is gravy for Judy Dinch. So we are right now, we are now into the stretch where we will only do movies where Judy Dengch. Dench plays characters named after other Oscar winners. Okay, I was going to bring this up, too, because I remember, like, growing up in high school as Anne Hathaway was in the ranks, and you, like, learn about Shakespeare and English class, and it's like, well, not that Anne Hathaway, Hardy Harthar. Hardy, Har Har Har Har Har. First of all, very shameless of you to casually bring up how Anne Hathaway was famous while you were still in high school. And I will get you for this. Listen, the girls love Della

enchanted. I bet. I bet. Listen, Ann Hathaway did not get famous till I was out of college. So, I don't know, eat it. Um, good on you for. I am the Judy Dench. I am the much older Judy Dench to your younger, uh, Kenneth Branagh playing Shakespeare. But I will see you into the ground is what I will say. That's the moral of that story. So, okay. So if Judy Dench was playing Anne Hathaway, what Anne Hathaway do we want to see Judy Dench play?

Well, obviously, oh, I was going to say something, but now I don't want to say it. I mean, they've both done Tom Hooper musicals, so I think those should be ruled out. Yeah, we'll rule those out. I would say, I mean, I would like to see Judy go toe to toe with Merrill in a Evil Wars Prada situation. I would be up for that. I feel like, though, I mean, like, really, I want to see the whole, what is it, the Gucci Boots scene with Judy Dench. I just want her to play that scene. Just play that scene. Just play that scene. Yes. I don't know. I want her to really fuck up Adrian Grunier in that movie. Just like, really just like, give them what for? What was the, what was the Anne Hathaway, like, sex movie that she did? Havoc.

Yes. Let Judy Dench do that. Let her have some fun. I almost said Brokeback Mountain because there's a topplesina, so I'm glad you went there. Yeah, yeah. Honestly, she'd slay.

I mean, you know, who's going to tell her that she's back going to fly? If your answer is the devil wears Prada, I mean, seriously, I think in a toe-to-to-to-battle of the Will's situation between Merrill and Judy Dench, I think Judy Dench wins.

It's tough to say she doesn't. I will say that. I mean, we've all seen notes on a scandal. We know that Judy Dench could kill someone. Yes. Not untrue. The other thing I wanted to mention, if we're talking about old Judy roles, is the best Judy is an old Judy is what I will say. So, no, Judy Dench and Ian McKellen in this movie, first of all, it was the first of two movies that they would make together in two years because they made

cats together the very next year. But also, there's a clip online that you can find of them doing Ham, or not Hamlet, Macbeth. The Macbeth. Their Macbeth is like, their Macbeth. They're Macbeth. Fucking amazing. I will just watch clips of that just to sort of like calm myself.

Just like watching Judy Dench do, like, iconic Lady Macbeth line readings is a tonic. She's the lady Macbeth. She's really fantastic at it. So lovely to see them back together, even though they don't share a scene in this movie. And we at least get her sort of jealously sniping about him and the rumors that are going around England that William Shakespeare and the Earl of Southampton. Southampton, thank you. I was like Hampshire? No, that doesn't sound right.

had some sort of, you know, romance or affair or something like that. This movie should just be called Rumors. There is so much. Rumors, parentheses, the Lindsay Lohan one. Yeah, not fully with Mac. Rumors with an OR. Why won't they let Shakespeare live? Okay, so Ian McCollin. Ian McCollin in this movie.

On the poster, in his hat, glorious locks that he has. Very much so. Such a soothing presence. Yes. Really shameful that I fear we will not ever have Oscar winner, Ian McCullen. But he's barely, he's just more than a cameo in this space. He's in one scene. It's a very good scene, but it is just, yeah, it's just the one scene.

Listen, enough for him to get an M for G's nomination. And deserved. He's great in this movie. He's great. But this was the movie that I was like, you know, it's probably never going to happen for him. And that sucks. Researching for this episode, it's not like I didn't know that he's only been nominated twice and not since Fellowship of the Ring in 2001. But like, it hit hard when I saw that. And I was just like, wow. Like they really, the Oscars, sometimes you have a window. We've talked about this on this podcast. We're like, sometimes you have a window to win an Oscar. And that window closes, and there's no guarantee that you're ever going to get back to it. And there was that window, the gods and monsters to the Fellowship of the Ring window, were like, it could have easily happened for either one of those.

He was in a really good position for either one of those to win, and he didn't. And I think there was a sense that just, like, he'll win one eventually, because he's great, and the academy now loves him, and he's on the radar. and it just didn't happen. It was, you know, a lot of Magneto performances, and that wasn't going to happen. And then even stuff like Mr. Holmes, where he gets some precursor attention. But, like, even if he had gotten nominated for that, that's not an Oscar-winning movie. And The Good Liar, which I had some hopes for because I was like, you know, it's kind of a trashy fun movie.

So trashy and so fun. He is having, he and Miran are both having a very good time in that movie. Highly recommended. I would also say he's having a good time in this movie. I think everybody but Branagh is having a good time. I agree. I don't think Branagh's bad, though, but he's not having a good time. That is not like, this is not like a fun Branagh performance.

I mean, I think what if anybody's concept of what this movie is, which is partly why I was surprised and I'm like, wait, did I like this movie or was it just not at all what I was expecting is I think especially the presence of Branagh and he like directed it as well makes it the same like it's going to be this super stuffy costume drama about Shakespeare but in actuality it's like this movie's kind of also trashy like yeah it's it's high melodrama like I was watching it, I was like, this is like other desert cities that John Robin Bates play, but about

Shakespeare. It's like Who knew that Shakespeare's life was so soap operatic? There is a road sign on the highway to out to Palm Springs and Los Angeles that actually does say

you know, X amount of mileage to this and you go this way for that and one is just like, this exit to other desert cities. And I was like, oh, that's wonderful. That's really fantastic. Okay. It's funny that you think that, though, about Kenneth Branagh, because I tend to think of him not quite, like, stuffy British movies, but I just think of him as such a hammy performer.

And often that hamminess comes through in his directing as well. and I was somewhat curious to see what this movie would turn out to be because the concept of it definitely seemed snoozy. Like the concept of it seemed like Shakespeare and his dotage, you know, this kind of a thing. And like, you know, his final years down on the farm and whatever. And there's a little bit of sprightliness to it. I like the little touches. I liked the fact that like Shakespeare was a terrible gardener that, um, the one guy in town

just wouldn't get off of his case there's just like there's little things about this that make the movie feel a little bit more alive than it didn't you know and that you didn't need those little touches but I appreciated them.

It is surprising though that it's not adapted from some type of play I feel like we're just constantly doing movies where we're like you know it's weird that this isn't an adaptation but like there's these long dialogue scenes that seem like the type of thing that, like, was revered on the stage.

But no, it's an original screenplay. I'm sure that it is all essentially historical fiction. I would really question, I don't know much about Shakespeare's life, especially, you know, post his career of what is, every time we just say true in this episode is going to try. I know. I know, same. What is true in this movie and what is not? Maybe all of it is. I will say the screenwriter, Ben Elton, has done a lot of, like, writing for a lot of different types of mediums, but has definitely done plays and has collaborated with Andrew Lloyd Weber on several things, including Love Never Dies, which is the sequel to the Phantom of the Opera.

Let's get Tom Pepper's Love Never Dies. I mean, honestly, why not? So there is definitely some theatricality to Ben Elton's writing, so that could And that's sort of explaining some of it. All is true. And like all of the actual historical details in this movie are right, it still is incredibly inachronistic in the way that like these people argue and yell at each other. Like it does truly feel like an early 2000s Broadway play that is now done by every regional and community theater.

in America, like, it's a certain type of talkiness. Before I get, like, yet, like, I know that, like, Ben Elton was also, like, he's a comedy guy. Like, that's his main thing. But I'm just saying, there is other, like, stage stuff that he's done. Anyway. But, yeah, you're not wrong. It's, it's not a bad movie. It's not a movie I would ever recommend to anybody and just be like, you know what's a good time is all is true.

it's it's better than I expected and sometimes that's enough yes definitely better than I expected and like maybe we could get into the plot description before we really get into Branagh but like I guess what I was saying what I was getting at with like he doesn't seem like he's having fun I mostly think that he doesn't rarely ever seem like he's having that much fun because he's he comes off very uh uh straight-laced super serious-minded especially when talking about like his shakespeare stuff though we've done an episode on much ado about nothing and that's a really fun movie um i don't know there's just a stuffiness around him in this type of movie to the point where i'm like well belfast is him having the most fun and he's talking about like traumatic life events the troubles right yeah exactly I think of stuff, like, I do think he, as an actor in Muchadou, like, is sort of, if not hamming it up, like, just, you know, I think he's having fun with a part like that. I think something like Dead Again is, is, you know, there's a, there's a-

That's such a goofy movie. A creativity and a sort of goofiness to that. His Harry Potter, the Harry Potter movie that he's in, he's playing a very sort of, like, hammy and bombastic character. It's almost like making fun of himself playing that role. Yeah, kind of. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So this, I think his character in this is a very sort of serious center to the movie,

which would have been nice if maybe Dench didn't have to be quite so serious, because, like, Judy Dench's Anne Hathaway in this is just sort of perpetually, and not unjustifiably, but sort of, like, perpetually aggrieved and perpetually just sort of like, Here's another thing that you've never done in your life is, like, pay attention to your children. And here is another thing that you weren't around for, which was learning how to garden. And here's one more thing is that I hate the furniture in this place. And it's just like, okay, she's still incredibly, you know, entertaining and whatnot.

I mean, like, that was my thing about her performance. It's like, we've made jokes about this movies for Grown Up Win, but, like, I think she's good in this movie. not just like, oh, well, she's pretty good, but, like, I think it's a solid performance. I'll say this. We've mentioned the Movies for Grownups Awards a couple times. We're going to get into it. Strap in. This is officially our All Is True episode.

Unofficially, this is our AARP Movies for Grownups Awards extravaganza. We are really going to, we're going to compensate for the fact that we're talking about kind of a non-existent movie. by, we're really going to feed the children when it comes to the AARP Movies for Grownups Awards. The M's for GERGES for All is true. You know what all is that the AARP Movies for Grownup Awards should be considered a major precursor. I mean, yes. We're not there yet, but I believe that we can get there.

I believe, right now I believe that we are in a race. They broadcast on PBS, put them on ABC instead of the Globes for NBC. We are currently in a race against the critics' choice. Awards. I don't want the Critics' Choice Awards to become this secondary precursor to the Oscars. I know you don't. And if we try, if we really try to make this happen, we could make the M4 G's the new Golden Globes. And I deeply want that to happen. And I think we can. What is the award show you want? The thing, the Globes is like, it's fun because everyone there is drunk. What award show do you want everyone to be drunk at if it's not the movies for grown-up?

100%. 100%. You want Emma Thompson there. You want Susan Sarandon. You want Tom Wilkinson. These are the people you want there and boozy and having a good time. You know, this will get your streeps there. Honestly, the most fun people... The most fun people at the Golden Globes are never the young people. Like, come on. When was the last time a young person at the Golden Globe did anything? halfway interesting. Like, no. I mean, maybe Jennifer Lawrence. Sure, but Jennifer Lawrence, as with many things, is the exception and also is, um, you know, aged beyond her years in Hollywood terms. Like, right? Like, Jennifer Lawrence is, is an age traitor, mostly. So, um, I don't know,

we'll grandfather her in, no pun intended. So, but let's, right now, stick to all is true. We'll, you know, not to say we'll get through it, but we'll get through it. We'll get through all is true. We'll talk a little about Brana, about Belfast, about the 2021 Oscar race, and then we'll move into the M4Gs. It'll be a good time. All right. But before we do all that, Chris, have you prepared a 60-second plot description? Sure, yeah. All right. Then I'm going to pull out my phone. We're going to set the stopwatch. A timer. This is my relaxing Deli-Ly. voice, we're going to do a 60-centient plot description.

Coming up, a long-distance dedication, from Anne Hathaway to William Shakespeare. I don't know. What's a disc track that Delilah would say? Linda Ronstats, you're no good. It's a disc track. Yeah. Okay. We're going to be talking about all is true on this episode.

It is the 2018 film directed by Kenneth Branagh, written by Ben Elton, starring Kenneth Brana, Judy Dench, Ian McKellen, Lydia Wilson, and Catherine Wilder. It opened small on December 21st, 2018, and pretty much stayed that way. And that's kind of it. Chris, are you ready with your 60-second plot description? Yeah. All right. You're going to start now.

Okay, so Shakespeare's Globe Theater burns to the ground during a production of All is True, which is a production about Henry VIII. Anyway, he then moves back to Stratford on Avon, never writes again, but, like, is going to immediately start reconciling with, like, never being there. And all of the shit that's gone down with his family, his oldest daughter, Susanna, is, like, maybe going to have an affair. It's a whole thing that's not really important to the rest of the movie. The big thing is, he is still grieving the death of his son, Hamnet. His twin sister Judith, who is, like, the most overlooked of his children. Shakespeare believes Hamnet to have written these poems as a child, and it's just like, they're just child poems.

He attaches them so much and makes him, like, Hamnet be the most important one. Anyway, turns out the big family secret is that Hamnet might have killed himself instead of dying from the plague. Meanwhile, he was transcribing those poems from Judith, and that's the big reveal, and they fight about it. We have three more seconds. Oh, three more seconds anyway. Shakespeare eventually dies, and then everyone learns out of reading. Is that the implication of the end of the movie is that all of the women finally learn how to. read.

Yes, enough that they can read at his funeral, they read one of his sonnets, and like the big thread for all the female characters is that they can't read or write the whole time. And that's why Hamnet had transcribed to Judas' poems, but like, you know, Shakespeare believed Hamnet to have written it. Right. And this is where we get into the, like, okay, how historically accurate is this movie? Because it's all conceivable, and it like gets. entertaining melodrama out of this type of scenario, but, like, the way that it delivers

it at least makes it seem like, you know, this is not historically accurate. I want to make a couple observations about Hamnet, who is the deceased son of Shakespeare. A lot of the film's sort of central emotional turmoil comes from Shakespeare's unresolved feelings about his son's death and him not being around for it at one point, Judy Dench is like, we all mourned and you wrote the Merry Wives of Windsor, which the library is open. But my thing about, and I don't know the order of events, so you can correct me if I'm wrong, but William Shakespeare having a son named Hamnet feels like if Charles Dickens had a son and named him

Schmavitt Schmopperfield. And I just feel like it's a weird thing to do. I just think in that time there was not a whole lot of options. And it would be like small things. There was just not a lot of names. So you basically took your...

I think it's probably more like he had a son named Derell and wrote a play named Daryl. It's like that. Okay. Did the sun come before the play or did the play come before the son? This is crucial.

Did he name Hamlet after Hamlet Or did he name Hamlet after Hamlet? Shakespeare scholars Please don't add us I want to know Also if Hamlet was like a real person That he based on I don't want to know that either Isn't there like a legend

Maybe I don't care It's all back to prehistoric times About the Prince Simba Right And then somehow it morphed to Dutch hamlet But I don't think that makes that better Because like if there was a historical

Hamlet that that's why he wrote that play Then again, it's like naming your kid Shmael Wolf Like not to like You know it's you know It's just like whatever Colum names were that complicated then It's not like

Colum wrong Colum you know Jethro I don't care The underlying message of this talking point here is we aren't smart people. Yeah, they knew that. They didn't need to know that, but they know that.

Okay. Okay, so, all is true. Here's the thing. There's a lot of business with his daughters in this movie. And sometimes I'm watching the movie, and I'm thinking, oh, this is kind of an interesting little story about the younger daughter who was the twin of the guy who died, and she's never forgiven herself,

and she's decided at age, like, 28, that she's going to be a spinster for the rest of her life. And then her sister is, like, unhappily married, but she's, you know, having an affair and her reputations at stake, and her husband seems very religious and not very fun. And I'm like, oh, so this sort of, like, has all of the makings of, like, some sort of masterpiece series, right? Some, you know, thing that PBS could air for three seasons. I was kind of into it sometimes. And then sometimes I'm like, but this is a movie about Shakespeare and his wife.

And, like, maybe that's the movie I want to be watching. And, like... Too much with Susanna's Affair. Way too much of Susanna's Affair. Especially because it comes to nothing. Like, Judith is the interesting one. She's the one with, like, all of the story. And...

Catherine Wilder, who if you told me that she was Andrea Rysborough's cousin, Okay. Thank you. Again, we've talked about Andrew Reisborough face blindness before, and it is nothing against her as an actress. But this movie was fucking with me severely because I'm like, I know this isn't Andrea Reisbrough. I've looked at this cast list several times. And yet, it really was just like, are you sure? Like, it's very much Mona Lisa Vito being like, how can you be so sure? And like, truly. Okay, so looking, I literally just clicked on her Wikipedia page, she's barely been in anything. She was in a, she was Ophelia in a 2017 stage version of Hamlet that Brana had produced with Tom Hittleston, I believe, is what this is telling me, which is kind of interesting. She was in, like, according to Wikipedia, one episode. of Call the Midwife and basically like

no other movies maybe IMDB will be more forthcoming, let's see but she could be more of a stage actress I think she's good in the movie I think she's very good

in the movie oh she's in the 2017 murder on the Orient Express also with Kenneth Branagh as prostitute oh boy so there was that

just the one what do you mean just the one so yes she was the only prostitute she was the only prostitute in all of Europe in that movie so yes sex work has been really stigmatized on train yes okay so yeah she's very good i really

liked her i thought she was excellent um but again part of me kept being like but i want to watch the movie that's judy dench and kenneth brana you know what i mean ultimately i think judy dench is very good but i feel like more of the story could have been hers i mean i think she has the best stuff in the movie. I don't think that Branagh's Shakespeare is all that interesting. I mean, like, he, like, basically spends the movie grieving and trying to, you know, garden. But everything around him is so much more interesting, which I suppose is part of the point, too, right? Like, he's off in London writing plays being a huge success.

Yes. Meanwhile, they're back at home living complicated lives. You know, like, that is part of the point. Well, and the whole movie, the whole movie is essentially, while Shakespeare is still alive, there's, he's very much doubting and wondering sort of like what his legacy will be. And part of that is, you know, with his family. Did he, you know, do all of the stuff professionally and then neglect his family?

What are the repercussions of that? He, there are several interactions that he has with different characters in this movie. that are about how much he should be and thinks he is sort of respected as an artist, as a professional, as a human being. And you get the scene, that's where Ian McKellon comes in, where McKellon, as the Earl of Southampton, shows up and essentially gives the like Magneto like your godemone and insects kind of speech, where he's basically like, your work is,

without peer your problem is you've never had fun a day in your life and all of these other people are dead now your peers but they at least like you know lived for half a second and then later on you get the other playwright who comes to visit him who's also his friend and he's like okay but all of those people died of like syphilis and murder and were poor and destitute and whatever and like you've managed to like hold it down pretty well and I think there's all of these sort of push-pull things where he's just essentially it's like his sense of self-worth is being like yanked in one direction or another there's the one guy Sir Thomas Lucy who is literally just like the bitchiest asshole in town and every single time William Shakespeare comes along he's like oh son of a thief eh and you know daughters are scandals huh and you know basically basically just like, you ain't shit. And finally, towards the end of the movie, Shakespeare, almost like, he's almost like a little boy in that scene where he's literally just like, your insults don't matter to me anymore. I'm going to stand up for myself. I ran the Globe

Theater, although you did burn it down to the ground. That's the other thing, is like I didn't realize was the preamble to this movie. I'm like, I feel like we should maybe talk more about how the only reason why we know about the Globe Theater is because Shakespeare made it famous, but yet he also burned it to the ground with a play. And just like... I mean, it's not his fault, but like... Okay, but on his watch, that theater ate no more. It's very Buffy before the first episode of Buffy of the Vampire Slayer,

where she's coming into town because she burned down the gym in her last high school. Like, that's sort of what's happening here. So, yeah. It's an interesting story. I don't know. I, again, don't know a whole ton about, like, the personal history of Shakespeare. I knew there were, like, you know, there is a whole reading of a lot of his work about, you know, homosexual inferences and stuff like that and how much of that has been hushed up by, you know, the literary, the great literary canon of whatever. The wheels of time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, like, that was interesting. I knew his wife was named Dan Hathaway. It's an interesting, like, dynamic here. And, like, I do think the movie, like, feels like a product of its time, but it isn't, like, too girl bossy.

And that, like, it ultimately is about, like, reflecting on history, these great men of history. Right. And, like, the personal sacrifices of, like, the women around them. Right. None of the women in this movie are able to read or write, including one who, like, has a has a talent that he believes in, even if he believes it to be of his son and not, you know, his daughter never even conceives that it could possibly be his daughter

because, you know, the male progeny of it all, you know, the father wanting to favor the son, et cetera, et cetera. I do think that there is kind of an interesting thread to that, like, theme. Oh, absolutely, absolutely. in a way that I was like, this could tip over any minute and be like hashtag-y, but it's not. No, it actually stays on the level pretty well. And it makes for a more interesting film than I was, you know, prepared for. So in terms of the like the Kenneth Branagh directorial sort of canon, right?

So this movie comes, it is, there is, believe it or not, a film in between this one and Belfast. People forget that he directed Artemis Fowl, another Judy Densh starring movie. There is two between this and Belfast. Wait, what else? Death on the Nile. Death on the Nile. That movie is not real.

It is never opening. It hasn't come out yet, though. So I'm officially placing that one in 2022. But she filmed it. In terms of releases, though. In terms of releases, I'm just putting Artem's Tal. But you are right, the death on the Nile was completed. It just is going to be burned in a ceremony at some point, and nobody will ever see it.

That's fine. Justice for Don French and Jennifer Saunders, but, like, otherwise, I'm fine. No, so, like, All Is True comes at the end of a really interesting string of movies. I would say he did his last Shakespeare adaptation in 2006, which was, as you like it, that maybe was an HBO. It was originally supposed to be theatrical. I think it went to either TIF or Cannes without distribution, and HBO picked it up. Interesting. So we talked in our last podcast very briefly about the movie Sleuth that he made with Jude Law and Michael Kane that I've never seen, but it is an adaptation of a Harold Pinter play.

And I remember for whatever reason, I have no idea what made me watch the trailer for it. a few months ago, maybe a year or two ago. And I watched it. And I was like, that's what Sleuth is, because first of all, I had no idea. And it's like... The original is Olivier, right? Yes. Kane and Olivia.

Kane played the younger man. And Olivier played the older man. But it's like, it's an infidelity chamber drama, essentially, that's like fully, like, sinister... Ness and twists in it. Yeah. Had no idea. Had no idea at all. I thought it was about a fucking detective.

I thought we were going to get, like, actual discussions around this, but people are just, like, blissfully happy to ignore that Kenneth Branagh has maybe the weirdest directorial resume in the business. In a way that I kind of love, because, like, there's big highs and big lows, and in the middle, it's just, like, a lot of weird shit. After Sleuth, like, famously, the thing everybody remembers, that he directed Thor, because it's such an odd pairing. And the first Thor is actually really interesting.

It's especially interesting to talk about it now in retrospect, because when it first came out, like, people forget that, like, people were trying to do the, like, well, this is the bad Marvel movie, like, from the break. Like, Thor was maybe the third Marvel movie, and already it was just like, well, the wheels are off the wagon on this one. And it's just like, okay, the wagon did. keep on going. But the first Thor is still, like,

working out the Thor character, so, like, that's a weird thing about it. But, like, it also has a really definite, like, visual. Like, all the stuff about Asgard is, like, really different than everything else that's in the MCU. And the fact that, like,

Tom Hiddleston's Loki, like, really just jumped off the screen there is, like, it's no accident. So, like, we'll give Bran a credit for that. Jack Ryan in Shadow Recruit is his next movie, which... A movie I have somehow seen and have truly no memory. I have not seen it at all.

I have it logged from whenever I saw it, and I'm like, I don't... I mean, like, I definitely remember Kira Knightley in that movie, because I remember basically my main takeaway being furious that Kira Knightley was in, stuck in a movie like that. Is that the one where Werner Herzog is the bad guy, or is that a... Jack Reacher that I'm thinking of. That sounds like a Jack Reacher. It might be a Jack Ritcher. Hold on.

I'm pulling this up because why do I... Wait, Kevin Costner is in Jack Ryan Shadow Recruit? I'm telling you, this Jack Ryan movie that is not real is crazy. Okay. That's wild. All right. After Jack Ryan Shadow recruit, he does the live action Disney remake of Cinderella, which of the live action action Disney remakes, I think, is one of the better ones for whatever that's worth. Whatever it's worth to say, this is better than the Beauty and the Beast and Lion King. It has a really good Cape Blanchet performance.

It's a really good Cape Blanchet performance. That really elevates the movie. Otherwise, it's fine. I think it's perfectly, I think the costumes are really nice. It was nominated for the Oscar for costumes. It's fine. It's good. The 2017 murder on the Orient Express, I had very high expectations.

for because the cast was so good and the concept seemed so fun and it just missed the mark for me. And I still can't quite put my finger on why, but it didn't quite do it for me. How did you feel about that murder on the Orient Express? It should be more fun than it is, I think is the big problem. Yeah, that's my thing. But it's kind of boring. Yes. I don't know.

And that's kind of one of the bummers about Death on the Nile. Like, well, death on the Nile seemed like it would have at least, you know, leaned into the fun side. You mentioned, you know, French songs are in it. Right. But part of me felt like, you're not going to fool me again, too. Where I was just like, I'll be optimistic, but like guardedly so. I did think Fyfer was very good in murder on the Urian Express, but in a dramatic way. It's not like she was like cutting it up.

She was like her best scene in it is this very dramatic moment. I just think it's a very, she does very good work. the thing that everybody remembers that is kind of the fun campy thing is the fucking mustache like the true like oh i thought you were going to say her wig reveal oh no i just like i feel like the thing that everybody wanted to talk about was and brando's really hamming it up as poor oh like that's the that's the fun part it's just not everybody else gets to have fun like he's having all of the fun and as the like lead actor and director sometimes it's just like maybe like spread them some fun around and he didn't quite so that was in 2017 and then 2018 all as true happens and he's sort of like revisiting the shakespeare thing but it

had been a good dozen years for him in between shakespeare projects with just a really eclectic filmography where there are precious few real victories there and yet They're all kind of fascinating in one way or another. So, I don't know. And then Artemis Fowell, it feels like... It's especially fascinating when you put them all together. Right, right. And that's why I would like...

I'd like to throw Artemis Fowl in there. And honestly, all is true is just as weird as the rest of them in terms of, like, the concept and also the fact that it, like, it was so anonymous and it was so sort of hidden from view. And yet it had this weird little aggressive awards campaign for a minute. that worked, but only in a very specific context, which is the M for G's. So it's weird. Artemis Fowle...

Well, it's... The thing about all is true is that it is a qualifying release because it wasn't released in its, like, full release until the following May, well after, you know, the award season. And I tried to look it up, but this... I believe it was one of the last movies to play the Paris when it was open, before Netflix bought it. Right. So it's like it had a very, very strange theatrical life that I think people are probably more inclined to understand literally within the past two years after the pandemic. People understand what qualifying releases are for the first time. We had to have this argument and explain what qualifying releases were at the beginning of our podcast.

Now everybody's complaining about them. Yeah. I mean, whatever. People, people's conceptions of how the movie business. sort of worked during pandemic got a lot more attention and all of a sudden there were a lot of like really strong opinions about things like release windows and when something should be able to qualify for the Oscars and all of a sudden remember that whole weird stretch where people were like you can't see any of the Oscar nominees and it's just like but you can see all

of the Oscar nominees, just not in theaters, because there's a pandemic, and like, I don't know, it was just like, there was just this whole thing that, like, really stuck in my crop about that whole. The thing that was weird to me about that, I was like, yeah, you can.

For double the price, it would have cost you to see it in theaters, because everything cost $20 fucking dollars to rent at home. Yeah. Versus paying $10 in a theater. Right. For a lot of people. I mean, I realize in, like, New York it's $20 a ticket, but. Yes, it is. The thing I was going to say about Artemis Fowl is that is a movie that got released during the pandemic.

Viewing option, like, I needed things to watch. Well, it got punted to D plus. To D plus, right. I can't imagine it would have done much business in theaters. I stopped watching it halfway through. It was one of the things where I was watching it late at night, and I'm like, I'm going to go to sleep and I'm going to like finish this in the morning. And I did the first part, and then I didn't do the second part. I never finished that movie. The only thing I know about that movie is the production stills of Judy Dench in costume, where I assume she's playing some type of bug lady. Yeah, you're not entirely wrong. She's sort of, she has a weird, like, scratchy-voiced accent that, like, there is a mystery character who you're supposed to not know who it is, except they sound exactly like Judy Dench sounds.

so I'm just like are like I and I never finished the movie so I could be wrong but like I'd be very surprised if that mystery person did not turn out to be Judy Dench because like it seemed very obvious to me anyway it's her twin too deep end all right let's talk about Bellfest really quick not now it is out in theaters right it's just out in theaters yeah yeah um I liked it better than you, we both, I don't think either one of us would put it at the top of our list, and it does seem to be right now, as of this moment, the kind of, everybody is sort of resigned to the fact that it's an Oscar frontrunner. And that's a thing that happened while I was not paying attention. All of a sudden, it was like, well, Belfast is the frontrunner. And I'm like,

it is? Like, that's weird. And not to say, again, I ultimately don't think it's the front runner. I think it's, I honestly think it's the power of the dog. But I felt, I felt like the thing of like, oh, it is definitely going to be a player. Because like the first reactions I saw out of telluride for it were things that were like, I didn't like it. But the people I know in the room that were Academy voters loved it. Yeah. So I was like, up. That's going to be the thing. It's going to maybe be a movie that is not very popular. But for this, you know, small group of 10,000. people, they're going to be the audience for it. Yeah. This was how a lot of people that I saw being the Ricardo's with, felt about being the Ricardo's. I was the exception that I also loved it, so I was

one of those people in the room. But, like, that was, I saw that at a guild screening, and it went over so well. And I'm just like, oh, all right, this is going to be like a major, major Oscar player. And... Yeah, I think it's a best picture nominee. I saw Belfast at a smaller screening, so it was

harder to get that sense of it. But, like, it is, it's comparing it to Power of the Dog. Power of the Dog, I obviously liked a lot better. I think Power of the Dog is maybe my favorite movie that I've seen all this year. And so far, at least. And it's a very good and accessible and compelling movie, but it's going to be very much easier to try and sell Belfast on things like emotion. And, you know, and so, and Oscar campaigns tend to be the stuff of playing on the emotion.

of voters, and it will be a lot easier to do that with a film like Belfast, which isn't to say that the most sort of sentimental movie always wins. We've had Best Picture winners that are the departed and no country for old men, and even spotlight, which, like, there is, I guess, a sentimental aspect to it, but, like, it's, I wouldn't call it, like, a sentimental movie. And so, like, there are exceptions to all the rules. And I think with, with Belfast, there seems to be a little bit of a resignation that people kind of have this Oscar amnesia

where every year they default to whatever their stereotype of Oscar voters is. And every year, it's just sort of like, well, they're going to obviously go for Belfast because I don't like this movie, but other people like this movie. And they are, you know, and it's... I mean, I basically just like said the same thing.

However, like, I don't know. I think financially Belfast is going to come off better than something, like, than some other movies that are considered front runners, I mean, but that's part of the reason why I think Power the Dog is the frontrunners

because, like, it's going to be devoid of those type of conversations. Yeah. Completely. Whereas, like, we're recording this the weekend that, you know, King Richard is doing less than expected while it's on HBO Max and people are ringing their hands over that, whatever.

Smooth move Warner Brothers. You dicks. I'm really cute. curious to see how Belfast holds up in terms of conversations around, like, craft, because that was my big issue with the movie. I kind of thought it was a mess, aside from, you were right, but I was willing to give it a shot of the 9,000 Van Morrison needle drops that are in it. I knew what was waiting for you.

I knew it was going to be. an aggression against you. I felt aggressed. I was trying to give it the benefit of doubt, but I don't know. I mean, to not be like the type of conversation that's like, well, this audience is going to be the one to like it, so that's what it is. But actually, I think what it has going for it is that actors are going to love it and the acting branch is huge.

I mean, I think there's a really good chance that Katrina Balfe is going to have a an Oscar in a few months. She's really wonderful in that. She's the best thing about the movie, period. It's a very easy SAG ensemble nominee because everybody in that ensemble is really playing these very sort of

warm and likable characters. Plus you have like a young kid in the lead role who isn't going to be able to get individual nomination. So like you're going to want to, you know, sweep him up in the cast. And I

I think that SAG Ensemble thing is one of the reasons why it has a best picture leg up, because, like, I would put money right now on a winning SAG Ensemble. I tend to get a little defensive of movies that get sort of brushed aside as sentimental, because, A, because I tend to enjoy movies like that. And I feel like a distinction is often necessary to be made between something that is sentimental and something. that is cynical. And I think a lot of the times, things that are sentimental are brushed off as cynical, even though they're not. And I think Belfast is going to really ride that line for a lot of people. And I definitely feel like this is a movie that comes by its sentimentality, honestly. And it does feel like it is a, it's an honest artistic statement by somebody who has, you know, the wherewithal to make a movie about his childhood and his home and whatever that he wants to say something.

And it does not ever, to me, tip the scales into cynicism. And I'm worried. Yeah, I don't think it's a cynical movie by any means. I think the stuff that I liked where I thought it was what made it the best version of the movie that I was watching was when it's really a movie about a marriage that, you know, almost ends but like saves it. yeah like that's the story that I really liked um but yeah I think there's just some directorial stuff and some like craftsmanship that it's like it's a lot of the same issues I have with a movie like sleuth in Kenneth Branagh's you know filmography that I'm like

this is just not it's you know one of the interesting things that I've heard in criticism about Belfast is that it doesn't confront enough, the sort of hard and harsh realities of the political violence that was happening at the time. And that it doesn't... It's very broad with those things. Yes. And again, it is a movie told from the perspective of its young protagonist, so it doesn't

ever linger too much in ideas of politics. And I think people who don't like the movie wanted it to be more political. But I will say there are at least two really intense and kind of harrowing scenes of like chaos and, I mean, violence. I say violence and people expect that there are like dismemberments in the streets or whatever. But like, it's like, you know, chaos and violent action or whatever. And because, again, it's from the perspective of a kid, it's really overwhelming. And I think Branagh does a good job of making those scenes feel impactful without needing to, in my opinion, go into the politics of it. That for whatever was going on, it was chaos and, you know, this sort of unmooring, you know, violence and action.

It's not just that it's from the perspective of a child, but I think it's also that what the movie is really about is. just this one family at this period of time where there's this tumult going on. So, like, I think it's also the matter of, like, what the movie is trying to be about. And I don't think it's actually trying to be about the unrest of the time. It's trying to be about this family, which, like, might sound like an excuse, but, like, I do actually think that's the intention of the movie. Yeah, I do, too. So we'll see how the season sort of unfolds.

I would not be surprised if this movie ends up getting usurped by something else. I'm not totally sure if I think it's going to be power of the dog that does it. But right now, we're sort of at a moment where, like, the possibilities of what could move ahead of it are kind of dwindling. Like, there's, you know. It's a really fun season, though, because there is so much possibility in so many races. I feel like the only thing that's tied up, please, for the love of God, let it be tied up, is Best Director for Jane Campion. but we will see. Yeah, it should be interesting.

So, all right, pivoting off of Belfast, which, all right, let's pivot this way. I think Belfast is going to clean the fuck up at the AARP Movies for Grownup's Awards. It is going to win. They're going to invent categories to let it win. Right. The M4Gs do spread the love, which makes me feel like it's probably the best movies for grown-up winner. Like, it's going to win their best picture. But, like, I could see them doing Branagh for Best Director.

I mean, like, maybe Judy Densel win. But, like, the Oscar, the big Oscar plays in performance are probably not going to be eligible because they are not over 50, though, like, Kieran Hines could be their supporting actor. What, like, you can right now. Here's my thing about the M4Gs. Yes. No, go ahead. Go ahead. If I were to place any kind of bet right now.

and like a sure bet that would win me money, it would be, you can like write in Judy Dench and Karen Hines on that ballot for M4G's. Like it is, they will, there is no sure thing that both of them will be nominated for M4G's. And I think you're right. Karen Hines, I could absolutely see him winning. Because they've given it to

like briefer performances before in their supporting, or like at least nominate. My thing about M for G's this year, we're going to talk about what's going to play with the AARP, our favorite precursor award because it is a major precursor. Yes. What in this year isn't, that is like an Oscar player, would, like, not be eligible for the M for G's.

So, it's like all movies about people in their 50s. Sort of. by people in their 50s. Like, Jane Campion is eligible if, like, her cast is not. That's the thing. It's like the cast of Power of the Dog is a little bit young, although not as young as, again, you don't freak me out by telling me how old Kirsten Dunst is, because then

I'll know how old I am, and I don't want to face up to that right now. But, no, you're not wrong. There are, I'm trying to, yeah, what would be, like, the major movies? But, again, that's sort of like the Oscars, the Oscars are closer to the M4G's demo. I guess Spencer is not probably going to be eligible for any movies for grown-ups. How old is Pablo Lorraine? I don't know. But certainly Kristen Stewart is, you know, is young.

You know, licorice pizza, Paul Thomas Anderson may be, you know, older. But obviously the stars of that movie are young. West Side Story is about young characters. I mean, like, you know, Dune is a young person's game. I wouldn't expect Dune to be a major player at the M4Gs. But, like, Will Smith for King Richard, yes. Nicole Kidman for being the Ricardo's, yes. Then it gets into, like, Francis and Denzel for Tragedy of Macbeth.

I could see it. Joaquin for Come on, come on, sure. All of the stars of mass, yes. If they nominate Leonardo DiCaprio, is he 50? He's not 50 yet. But even if he was, he would have the entire AARP membership killed for acknowledging his age. So I've got some interesting sort of for your considerations maybe, or at the very least, like, be on the lookout. First of all, I don't think we've heard the last of Dear Evan Hansen.

I could see Julian Moore getting an M4G's for Dear Evan Hansen. Or Amy Adams, honestly, like one of the two of them, maybe. just don't rule it out I think Richard Jenkins and Jane Howdeschelle This is the one place one of them could show up Is a supporting category for their performances in the humans Cherry Jones for Eyes of Tammy Fay I don't know, maybe

They like to pull They like to pull some choices that are quintessentially their own It won't happen but I would love it if Udo Kier got a nomination at the M4Gs for that movie Swan Song that he's doing. Meryl in Don't Look Up, I think, is a distinct possibility for M4G's. And my real wild card, and we'll just put it out there on the table and see what happens. Rita Moreno for West Side Story.

Oh, I don't think that's so much of a wild card, to be frank. I'm saying M4G's, let's see it happen. They love a legend. They love a legend. As do we. Like, what are your, what are your M4G's wildcards for this year? I think it's a perfect year to bring back the category, best movie for grownups who refused to grow up. There's lots of options there.

I wrote that down. That could nominate Coda for, liquor's pizza for sure. Yep, that's a good one. What an odd category. That category lasted way longer than I thought. best movies movie for grownups that don't want to grow up because they had to have a category

for movies about people under 50 The last winner of that category by the way was The last time they did it It was essentially a animated category It really became like a default animated category And so the last winners of that one The last three winners of that category

were Cuba in the two strings inside out a Lego movie with like precious few live action movies and even the live action movies. So the category became movies we saw

with the whole family. Right. But like before that movies like Moonrise Kingdom would win or enchanted or there was a lassie

in 2006? All right. If you say so. What? Yeah. Sure. Sure. Lassie.

School of Rock. A perfect winner in that category for 2003. So, yeah. I'm most excited for whatever their unhinged shit is going to be this year, because they've done things like awarded to Five Bloods with Best Buddy Picture. That's a movie about friends, but Buddy Picture implies comedy. They're going to do some shit like Best Time Capsule, the last duel this year.

Their best timed capsule category is consistently the most cursed. on their on their ballot it is usually because again like what do you mean by that what do you mean by time castle sway here do you mean that we're nostalgic for things like again what are the things that the M for Gs are going to tell us we are nostalgic for we're nostalgic for duels and the troubles and um what else we could be nostalgic for uh nightmare alley it's gonna be like Nightmare Alley, right. Organized crime. Right. Organized crime among carnival people, yes.

We are nostalgic for Diana being alive. I don't know. Like, we are, I don't know. Intergenerational is always an interesting option. That's like, you know, there'll be movies for families. So, like, King Richard, I'm guessing, we'll be there. Come on, come on. We'll probably be there.

Right. So I wanted to kind of get into the, a little bit of the history of the M4Gs, which have only been around since the 2001 movie season. The first few years, they were only, they only existed as part of like an article in AARP magazine. And they would, you know, publish their favorite movies of the year. The very first best movie for grownups for 2001 was the Australian movie Lantana, starring Anthony LaPalia and Jeffrey Rush and I love that for them

that was not a movie that I have seen I remember hearing about it but have never seen that one I've seen it cinematography by Mandy Walker that's cool because again

it's in Australia so you know dollars to donuts you're going to get Mandy Walker to do your cinematography so it existed as kind of a you know as a print thing for a while and then their very first televised

or sorry their very first live ceremony I don't think it was televised for a while was for the 2005 season the very first M4G's ceremony was hosted by Angela Lansbury and and Shelley Berman

who among other things played Larry David's father on Curb Your Enthusiasm just to give you a sense of like the vibe that they were going for in 2006 was Angela Lansbury and Larry David's dad on Curb Your Enthusiasm. Where the best movies for Grown Up Winner was Capote. Yes.

And so that was the case for about nine years. And then the 2015 ceremony for the 2014 movies was the first to be telecast just locally in L.A. on KTLA. And then it was only like this podcast. podcast is as old as the concept of the M4Gs on PBS. Like we are, again, this is why we are kindred spirits. Like the very first M4Gs on PBS was in 2018, and that was hosted by Alan coming, which they should all be, I would say. And so here we are now in 2021, still ideally to be airing on PBS and destined to

be the new Golden Globes, if I have anything to say about it. Do you want to dip into those very first, that very first year of the M4Gs and just get a sense of what was nominated? Absolutely. Let's talk about this. Lantana wins Best Movie for Grownups. Yes. There's only a few categories.

They only had four nominees apiece. Well, Best Actor only had three. But other than Lantana, it was a lot of the Oscar nominees, a beautiful mind in the bedroom and Iris were the three nominated movies that didn't win best movie for grownups. But even then, they had some wild ones. Tony Scott got a best director nomination for Spy Game,

which, like, the Robert Redford's spy movie, of course AARP is going to go for that. Like, absolutely they are. Gene, well, Gene Hackman got nominated for Royal Tena Bombs, which A++, but also Morgan Freeman for a long-came a spider. like again what's the movie that you're going to like that you're going to come home for the holidays and your parents are like did you see a long came a spider that is fantastic filmmaking so um i think we're also looking at different research too so we can puzzle piece all of it together oh why what are you looking at because i also see ben kingsley and jim broadbent nominated in lead or in best actor they didn't have supporting categories so those would be your supporting

Oh. Are you looking on IMDB? We are getting incomplete information. Oh, that's fascinating. So are you seeing five nominees in all categories? It's all the same categories. All right. I'm going to dip into that one second. But if you look at the acting and the directing nominees, it all adds up. All right. So actress that year is one, well, first of all, the nominees are both of the Gosford Park supporting actress nominees were Helen Mirren and Maggie Smith. They were both nominated

for Best Actress, along with Sissy Spac for In the Bedroom and Judy Dench for Iris, also Oscar nominees. But the winner was not an Oscar nominee at all. It was Reverend Mother

Scary Lady from Dune herself, Charlotte Rampling, for Under the Sand. The Benicheserator behind this. That's actually the Benad Jeserate used the voice and they got all of the... Well, I mean, if you are Benad Jeserate, that comes with an AARP membership? It's true. It's baked in. That's part of the welcome package.

Yes. Yeah, totally. What else is in the welcome package if you become a Benad Jeserate? You get one of those little box things to put, you know, people's hands in. Yes. You get an AARP membership. Right. You get the veil and you get...

I don't know, Bjork's greatest hits. Right. Yes, Icelandic, the best of Icelandic music. The funniest thing about this first M4G's year is because it only existed as a print column, it had a lot of,

it's essentially like the kind of shit that I would do when I'm like summing up the year in movies, right, as they make up these fake little categories. And so they have things like best treatment of a delicate subject went to iris and worst treatment of a delicate subject went to freddie got fingered so they're doing their little arm on white thing here's a thing that i think is a little unfair uh best old age makeup russell crow in a beautiful mind worst old age makeup jennifer connelly in a beautiful mind now come

now come on a i mean why be mean and also though don't gas up russell crow in a beautiful mind like it was all bad old age makeup like let's let's be let's be serious here. Other interesting ones, let's see, Julie Andrews wins for Best Grandparent in the Princess Diaries. Morgan Freeman, in addition to his best actor nomination for Along Came a Spider, gets the most athletic performance award, which I think is hysterical because I guarantee you it's at most like running and maybe like jumping a barricade of some sort. But like I do not think that Morgan Freeman was like doing the heptathlon or whatever. Closing a car door real fast.

Right. However, some of the, okay, it's always fun to make up your own categories. Yes. That's fun thing to do. We love it. But these are so mean and bitchy.

Like their least athletic performance is Marlon Brando in the score. That old man was dying. Be nice. You don't have to be like that. Oh, again, this was presented by, the old bitch wing of AARP. It was the

You mean the gay wing? The hissing queens, I do mean the gay wing. That's exactly who I mean. So who was, all right, so who was Gay-gay-R-P? Who was still alive in 2002 to be like old and gay and bitchy? Like, Derek Jacoby

was just like, was handing out all of these. This was... I mean McCollin. Yeah. It was just Derek Jacoby and Ian McEllen, like in a back room. Ian McCollum was like, do not nominate me, I am not going, but I will shit on Marlon Brando. Oh, man.

They give Best Over 60 Romance to a movie called Innocence that was an Australian movie. Again, they're loving these Australian movies. About two separated lovers who meet again accidentally after decades and decades and fall in love again. And now I'm kind of curious as to like what this movie's whole deal is. because it wins best over 60 romance movie, but then it also wins, with quotation marks, worst over 60 romance movie, because for the best, they said,

for having the guts to try it, and then for worst, they say, er, now let's try it in a good movie. Again, just bitch. Is this like a movie that has, like, you know, old people fucking? It might be. That might be what it's notorious for. Good for them.

If it is good for them, and stop being mean. We don't like these first AARP movies for Grownup Awards. They're really mean. Let's see if they get better as they go along. All right. Second year, do they still have the made-up categories?

Not as many. Now it's more just like actual things, although they give breakaway performance to Richard Geer and the write-up there was who'd have thought that behind those American jigolo eyes and that officer and a gentleman chin, all right, hid the soul of a song and dance man

He'll never make us forget a stare But we'll never think of gear the same way either So they really liked him in Chicago I suppose that's nice But he was a dancer Runners up for breakaway performance that year To gear were Christopher Walkin for Catch Me If You Can I don't know what they mean by breakaway

Essentially, it's just like I guess like Doing something different than you normally do Which I guess for Christopher Walkin was like being good in a movie again. Making you cry? Right. Robin Williams for one-hour photo, so that fits, right? He's doing the scary guy thing.

And then Maggie Smith for Divine Secrets of the Yaya Sisterhood, which, okay. Do you want to know what film got the most nominations that year in 2002? About Schmidt. No, that got two nominations. Leading the pack with four, our favorite Miramax movie, The Quiet American. So if you wanted to know who was watching The Quiet American,

as we have often wondered aloud, it was every member of AARP. Do we think AARP would have been pissed that couldn't nominate Hillary and Jackie for anything? Yes, I do. Who would love a cello movie more than AARP at that point?

I say no one. They did also give Best Director that you, to Roman Polanski for the pianist. So truly nobody in Hollywood's hands are clean from that year. Everybody from the Academy to the AARP all have to live with the fact that they gave Roman Polanski Award in the 21st century.

So there we go. All right. What do you have to say about the supporting actress category at the... I really wanted to go into the history of supporting actress at an AARP movie for grownups. Okay. They only added it like a few... a while into the run, right? They never used to...

Yeah, there's only like 15 years' worth. They do it first in the 06 race. The first supporting actress winner is Ruby D for American Gangster, as I'm sure we could have imagined. There's only ever two times they've overlapped with Oscar. Can you guess which two those were? So if Ruby D was the first, so that's 07, so 07 onwards, only twice. I want to get this right. So AARP, so it's probably someone older, so not like Penelope, not like, probably not Melissa Leo, but I'm not going to rule her out either. Is one of them Octavia in the Help?

No. Okay. she might not have been old enough yeah i just thought that they might just like you know like the help enough to fudge it um all right i'm gonna get this i'm gonna get this i'm gonna get this perhaps one of the stars of the help is an overlap oh viola for fences correct all right and is it recent it is rather recent it is rather recent it is is it um um oh god i want to get this i was going to say

glen close but she didn't win for uh supporting she didn't well she didn't win she was nominated for hillbilly elegy oh i'm sure um this is a um someone who is having a moment everybody was giving this person trophies, except for basically the Tony's and the Grammys, but movies for groundups also included. Regina King. No. It's Laura Dern for marriage. Oh, wow.

All right. That's good. I like that. We're going back. I want to take us back through winners. I can, maybe I won't see if we can guess. If there's any notable weirdness, I will call those out. But I want to go from most recent to back in time.

I promise you I am ending with a bang. It is the reason I want to talk about supporting actress in movies for grownups. Also, supporting actress is everybody's favorite category. But if it's not your favorite category, move along. What are you do? There are other podcasts for you. That's right. Okay.

Most recent winner, Jody Foster for the Mauritanian. Wow. I forgot that she backed up her Golden Globe win with a win at the AARP. That's fantastic. Good for her. Indeed, she did. Also, that year, Movies for Grownups knew what was up.

They were, I think, the only awards body to nominate Candace Bergen and let them talk. Good for him on that. She should have won. For that, Laura Dern for Marriage Story, by the way,

AARP Movies for Grownups did nominate Jennifer Lopez for Hustlers. That is awesome. Before that, the aforementioned Judy Dench for All is True. Year before that,

Lori Met. calf for Lady Bird beating Alice and Janney. I believe the only place she beat Alice and Janie. All right. Very good. Year before that, Viola Davis for Fences. They also had the gumption to nominate the great Molly Shannon for other people. Yes.

Who won the Indy Spirit that year? Yes. The year before that, Diane Ladd wins for joy. Get out of here. Not a single Oscar nominee in the bunch, I should also add. Get out of here. That's amazing. Diane Ladd. Wow. Diane Ladd for Joy nominated against Joan Allen for Room. Justice for Isabella Rossellini in Joy, I will say.

Oh, yes. No disrespect to Diane, et cetera, et cetera. But yeah, yeah, adversary commerce. Our own favorite adversary commerce. And Cynthia Nixon for James White. Right. That movie. Yeah. Next year. Is this 2013?

2014 it says Renee Rousseau for Nightcrawler Good call Love that Going backwards Oprah Winfrey for the butler Listen to our episode on the Butler Yep

Before that you can blame This is somewhat surprise nomination That people were scratching their heads over Blame the AARPs They gave it to Jackie Weaver For the Silver Linings Playbook Wow Listen who doesn't love

Craby Paddy's and homemade snacks better than retirees. No one, I say. Previous year, you guessed that Octavia Spencer would have won for the help. She was not nominated. One of her co-stars was. Sissy. Can you guess who it was?

Was it Miss Sissy? It was Allison Janie. Wow. Taylor Mainsdale. They nominated Alice and Janny for the help. Can you guess the only Oscar nominee? who was nominated. I mean, probably McTeer.

Yes, Janet McTeer. Well done. The winner is Vanessa Red Gray for Cory Alainis. Perfect. Year before that, Felicia Rashad for Four Colored Girls. Wow. Coming into the home stretch, the previous year before that, But also with no Oscar nominees, we do have to take a moment to say they nominated Susan Sarandon for the lovely bones, probably for the tomb in the middle of her house.

Of course. For the tomb in the middle of your house. The winner, however, was Kim Basinger for the Burning Plain. Wow. Wow. A serve. Okay, so, 2009, Kim Basinger wins for the Burning Plain. With what I can't imagine that, like, I've not seen the Burning Plain, but I can't imagine that she's better than a tomb in the middle of your house.

So, as I mentioned, the first winner was Ruby D. an American gangster, but I'm trying to get to 2008. The other nominees were Kim Cottrell, Sex in the City, Bet Midler, the Helen Hunt film, then she found me. Deborah Winger in Rachel getting married. and Cloris Leachman in The Women. Right. If that lineup wasn't enough to tell you that they were fully on one in the year of 2008, the winners, which as I mentioned are a tie, but they are nominated together in the same slot, what other two performances could you put together for a single nomination and a win

other than Christine Baransky and Julie Waters, Walters. Oh, God. No way. Supporting actress winners, Julie Walters and Christine Boranski for Mamma Mia.

I think... This is why. This is why we love them. Who else would do this? Who else would have the chutzpah to do this? No one, as far as I'm concerned. No one would.

I'm going to pull this up and see where else Mamma Mia was. It was not best movies for grown-ups, not even nominated. What do you hear for? What do you hear for if you're not going to nominate Mamma Mia elsewhere? However, they did have the kindness in their hearts to nominate Pierce Brosnan for a supporting actor. Oh, no. Oh, no.

Where did it all go wrong? Right here. Right here is where all wrong. And they nominated it for Best Grownup Love Story and Best Buddy Picture as well. Not Best Movies for Grownups. I love a movie that can be both a grown-up. love story and a buddy picture though and Mamma Mia definitely qualifies.

It's definitely both. It's definitely both. It's also an intergenerational film, but it is not nominated there. Well, that's bullshit. What was? Best intergenerational film that year. The Visitor wins. Also nominated Rachel getting married Grand Tarino.

No! I agree. Curious case of Benjamin Button. I guess it's intergenerational for just It's a single person. Within the same character. Oh, man. I mean, listen, as advertised, it is an intergenerational movie, so there we go.

Also, the last nominee is Forgotten Movie Smart People, the Sarah Jessica Parker, Elliot Page movie. Oh, wow. Fully forgotten. Absolutely forgotten. Never even saw. Never even saw. Nope, neither did I. All right.

Joe, do you have any last notes on All Is True or Kenneth Branagh? What is your favorite Kenneth Branagh directed movie? I mean, I should give the embarrassing caveat that I've still never seen either Henry the 5th or his 8 billion hours long Hamlet. I have not seen Henry the 5th and that I am hoping to do before the end of the season. Because I have been doing catching up to Kenneth Branagh directed movies. You and I are both Mary Shelley's Frankenstein apologists. but I haven't seen it nearly as recently as you have. I saw it when I was a teenager.

I don't know how I feel about it as an adult. Definitely get on that. Crack a bottle of wine and watch that movie. But I would say, you know, much ado about nothing, which we've talked about. We have an episode on is a lot of fun. I really like that one. The one that I would say is his, or at least my favorite of his directed movies, is an imperfect movie. and it is definitely a real-time capsule of the time that it was made.

But I think you need to catch up to Peter's Friends. I saw Peter's Friends only a few years ago. Oh, okay. I didn't realize that you'd seen it. I had done mixed reviews, Emma Thompson. Oh, right. I watched Peter's Friends for that. Yeah, it was good.

It's a cute little movie. I liked it. I really, really liked it for as, like, dated as it is. I think it's pretty good. Should we move on to the IMDB again? Yes, why don't we? Why don't you tell us and our listeners what the IMDB game is all about? All right, guys. Every week we end our episodes with the IMDB game where we challenge each other with an actor or actress to try to guess the top four titles that IMDB says they are most known for. If any of those titles are television, voiceover performances, or non-acting credits, we'll mention that up front. After two wrong guesses, we get the remaining titles release years as a clue. If that's not enough, it just becomes a free for all of hints. That's the idea.

All right. Chris, I'm going to give you the option of giving first or guessing first. I would like to give first this week. Let's hear it. So the ARP movie for grown-ups year that we are talking about, I wanted to challenge you with one of their legendary performers that won this year, not for a competitive prize, but for the lifetime achievement. Who could I be talking about other than one and the only is Shirley McLean? Oh, I love Shirley McLean. You know I do. Everybody should.

If you don't, you're wrong. Okay, so Shirley MacLean is a challenge because she has worked over many decades. She has. And many popular movies across those decades. I feel like I would be shocked if the apartment was not on this list. the apartment is on there okay i would be shocked if terms of endearment were not on the list correct her oscar win okay so now the question is do i move up into some of her newer more recent roles or do i dip back into some classics i'm going to say that sweet charity is one of them

Sweet Charity is not one of them. Come on. I know. It was such a big part of her. It was such a big part of her Kennedy Center honors presentation. Fine. Okay. So let's see with Shirley.

I feel like there's some like, like I don't think the children's hour is going to be one of them. I'm trying to think of like what are the like more notable younger Shirley McLean performances um like i don't think the evening star is going to be one of them for her newer performances i love in her shoes as i know you do as well i do indeed but is that enough of a shirley mclean movie you know what because she's on the poster of it i'm going to guess postcards from the edge incorrect no postcards from the edge damn so your two years are 195 and

1989. 89. Oh, steel magnolias. Steel magnolias. Miss Weezer. Yeah. You are a pick from hell. Jinks. All gay men are named

Mark Rick or Steve and they have track lighting. Weezer, how's your how's your nephew, the one that installed your track lighting? Steve's fine. Oh, what a wonderful movie. Okay, all right, I'm glad that that's one of hers. All right, 1955 is where I'm going to run into some problems. Is it the western she made with Clint Eastwood?

It is not a Western. It is a genre movie. It is a thriller, perhaps from a director who is very famous for making thrillers. Did she do a Hitchcock? She did do a Hitchcock. Oh, God. The fact that I had to ask probably doesn't bode well. This is like the, like, maybe even C-tier Hitchcock, but they do include it in the box sets.

Hmm. Okay. So, God, this is such a process of elimination. Like, I know it's not the birds. I know it's not Marnie. I know it's not, um, Rebecca. I know it's not Psycho or Vertigo or. north by northwest or rear window.

Is it, oh, okay, is the title a lot of words or one word? The title is four words. I will also say this is her film debut. Okay. Well, the two that I was thinking of are neither one of those are four-word titles. So, okay, okay. Were you thinking of, like, the man who knew too much? That's Doris Day.

I was thinking of the man who knew too much, and I was thinking of, he's Notorious, right? He directed Notorious? Yes. Notorious is Bergman. Is Bergman, right? Yeah. Notorious rules. I've not seen it. I should. I should see it. Oh, you'd love it.

Okay. Bergman is really good playing drunk in that movie. Oh, I do love that idea. Okay. The first word is the. Okay. And the last word is a name, like a person's name. A person's name, right. A man's name.

The truth about Harry. The trouble with Harry. The trouble with Harry, right. I was thinking, the truth about Charlie, I'm such a fraud. I'm so fraudulent. I'm so sorry. Right. It's an okay, Hitchcock.

That's one of those ones where I know the title, but I know almost nothing about what it actually is. It's fine. there's a dead body in this village who's the guy who's the male lead uh that i forget let me look this up oh john forsyth oh like charlie's angels john forsyth no i mean much before charlie's angels right but that that same guy yeah okay interesting all right i'm so sorry shirley i failed you my my queen my my legend i feel bad now okay all right for you chris i of course, we made note earlier that

All Is True was released the year before that two of its stars reunited for one of the cinematic achievements of 2019, Judy Dench and Ian McKellen, as two of the titular cats.

So, those two were among my favorite performances in that movie, if not my two favorite performances in that movie. One of my not favorite performances in that movie, movie was given by one Rebel Wilson

so... Oh, no. I'm going to make you guess Rebel Wilson's known for. Okay, there's not that many Rebel Wilson movies. Is Katz on there? Cats is not on there, so strike one. I bet like everybody is trying to get cats

like scrubbed from... Right. At least they're known for. At least they're known for. Well, bridesmaids. Yes, bridesmaids. Okay. How to be Bridesmaid's is a good get because a lot of people forget that that's the first thing that a lot of people saw her in. She's really funny at Bridesmaids. Sure.

How to Be Single. Not How to Be Single. Okay. So that's two strikes. So you get years. Your years are 2012 and then two movies from 2019. What was the 2019 movie that she's like, lead um

correct I just want to call it how to be single it's um uh it's not how to be single she's actually wait she's in uh jojo rabbit well that's one of them

yeah so jojo's one of them uh 2012 2012 is the year after bridesmaid so it was pitch perfect that soon after bridesmaids? Pitch perfect.

Okay. It was 2012. Yep. Yep. You got it. I know that the one where she is the lead and the poster is her, just her. Yep. What genre is it in?

I mean, it's a rom-com. I just can't remember the name of the movie. Well, maybe spell those or give me the full words of those. Romantic comedy. Uh-huh. what's one of those words? Comedy? No, how about the other one?

Is romantic in the title? Yes. I guarantee you I'm not going to be able to get it because that's totally not in the ballpark I was in. What's a common phrase with that word in it that could be like a question, like, but a rhetorical question. Like, that is maybe the... Whatever happened to the romantic comedy?

Yes, that's a, what it's called. It is Rebel Wilson in whatever happened to the romantic comedy. Mariel Heller's whatever happened to the romantic comedy. Of course we would watch that. It is Rebel Wilson. Wait, I want to give you the cast of this movie, because actually it was okay. Rebel Wilson, Liam Hemsworth,

Priyanka Chopra, Betty Gilpin actually kind of rules in this movie. Adam Devine, whatever. Brandon Scott Jones is actually really, really wonderful and funny in that movie. I love Brandon Scott Jones. I believe I thought Bowen Yang

showed up in this movie, but maybe not. Jennifer Saunders plays her mother, which, let's celebrate that. I feel like her mom was like very like there was a lot of wine like to that character. It's called Isn't It Romantic? Sure.

I love that I can remember the poster for this movie, but not the title. Maybe that's why I didn't make that like money because it has the most generic title. The idea of that one was that, like something happens and like all of a sudden everything in her life starts behaving like she's in a romantic comedy. Gotcha. Like that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, it's fine.

It's, I, it was one of those movies that I feel pretty. Like, that sounds like I feel pretty. I mean, it was around that time. Like, I feel like that was probably a trend at that point. Um, it was one of those movies I saw at the Grove in L.A. Like, it's my, it's part of my grove, uh, story. So, and that would have been, uh, No, that was 2019, so that wasn't my, uh, my last pre-pandemic activity.

My Grove Adventure in 2020 when I saw Gretel and Hansel and, uh, um, what's the, what's the force majeure remake called? Downhill. Uh, downhill. Yeah, those were the two. And then everything went to shit. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Basically, yes. Basically, that's what happened. I saw downhill. I held an Oscar on the Warner Brothers studio tour and then the world ended. So, truly appropriate. All right. Yes, good job with the Rebel Wilson IMDB game. Very, very good.

All right, Chris, that is our episode. Listeners, if you want more of This Had Oscar Buzz, you can check out the Tumblr at thisheadoscarbuzz.com. You should also follow our Twitter account at Had underscore Oscar underscore Buzz. Chris, I know the answer to this question, so it's more rhetorical question for me, but why don't you tell the listeners where they can find you and your stuff?

I am on Twitter and letterboxed at Krispy File. That's F-E-I-L. All right, I am on Twitter at Joe Reed, read-spelled, R-E-I-D. I am also on letterboxed as Joe Reed read-spelled the same way. We would like to thank Kyle Cummings for his fantastic artwork and Dave Gonzalez and Gavin Mievous for their technical guidance. Please remember to rate, like, and review us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Google Play, Stitcher, or wherever else you get podcasts.

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