This Had Oscar Buzz - 182 – State of Play

Episode Date: February 21, 2022

Adapted from the lauded UK miniseries of the same title, State of Play had a labored journey to the screen. Appearing on the 2006 Black List and originally intended as the screen reunion for Brad Pitt and Edward Norton, the American film adaptation weathered several delays, recastings, and creative setbacks, including the 2007 WGA strike. Once in … Continue reading "182 – State of Play"

Uh-oh, wrong house. No, the right house. No, I didn't get that! We want to talk to Marilyn Hacks. I'm from Canada. I'm from Canada water. Coffee's free for friends of the press. I heard a young woman was murdered.

Who told you that? You just did. Sonia Baker, any valued member of my staff, died this morning. Congressman Collins. He's an old friend of yours. Is that right? Good reporters don't have friends, only sources. You're okay? Collins was allegedly having an affair with a young woman.

I want to know everything that we can about her. We've got eight hours. Hello, and welcome to the This Head Off. Oscar Buzz podcast, the only podcast, wishing George Clooney's directorial career a good night and good luck, and perhaps a goodbye. Every week on this had Oscar Buzz, we'll be talking about a different movie that once upon a time had Lofty Academy Award aspirations, but for some reason or another, it all went wrong.

The Oscar hopes died, and we are here to perform the autopsy. I'm your host, Chris Fyle, and I'm here, as always, with my favorite bloodsucker and blogger, Joe Reed. Wow. I guess I'll take the compliment that I'm the Rachel McAdams of this podcast. Like, that makes me feel good. This movie we are here to talk about on this day is about the moment in time or the bygone days when journalists and bloggers were in a war. I, that was my first note when I was writing down notes. Well, it was my second note. My first note was Russell Crow entered the aughts like a lion and went out like a lamb scarfing down Cheetos because that is the first thing you see in this movie is Russell Crow

just like wolfing down a bag of Cheetos, which respect, because I could go for that right about now. But yeah, my second- Hot Cheetos. See, I'm not a flaming hot. I'm a baby. I'm a real, real wuss when it comes to like spicy, especially like chemically spicy stuff. like Flaming Hot Cheetos is, I look at that, and I'm just like,

ulcer is basically what I look at that. See, I'm not a Cheeto person in general, but the Flaming Hot Cheetos at least taste like the spicy nacho Doritos, which is the best Dorito flavor. See, we're a part on that. I do like the sweet chili. Like, that's about as spicy as I'll go with Dorito, is the sweet chili. See, that tastes more chemical to me. Interesting.

I guess there are certain chemical, like, at some point, you got to make your piece with chemical stuff, like, in snacks, because. This is the world we live in. But that is sort of riding the right side of the line for me. I always feel like, what's my good example for, like, chemical shit that I, like, can't deal with? I guess, like, Diet Pepsi. Like, Diet Pepsi is, like, the chemical-guest thing. That is, like, it's not even a beverage.

I'm sure under, like, the FDA rules, they have to call it, like, a beverage product or something. Which is so funny because Diet Coke tastes like it sprung forth from a spring in the ground. You know what I mean? Like Diet Coke is the most... Only when it's from a fountain. I mean, fountain anything is superior. Absolutely. Although nothing, this is such a classy problem thing, but like nothing annoys me more

when I'm ordering like a door dash or something like that, and I order a fountain beverage there and it shows up and it's flat and there's nothing you can do about it. There's just like you are powerless, you have no recourse, there is just nothing to be done about it, and you have this, like, in my case, often, I'll get, like, whatever, large Diet Coke with whatever I'm getting, and it's just, like, flat as you can please, and it's just like, because they filled it with ice and the ice melted. That is a big part of it. This is also why not to be, like, total trash and be like, you know, what's great about 7-Eleven. But the thing about 7-Eleven is, they have made the big gulp such a big part of their branding that they, like,

tend to that machine like it's a priority. So, like, your big gulp is always going to be right and tight, like, with that carbonation. It's just going to be, it's going to be exactly what you want. And I appreciate that about 7-Eleven. Much more than I appreciate the Hellscape tequitos that they have near the register that look like they could... Oh, that are just, like, constantly rolling all day long. Just burn a hole through a Mac truck, those things could. Like, it's just like the absolute horrors that it's going to wreak on your digestive system if you try a 7-11 tequito is just not worth it. But the big gulp, worth it. Anyway, our best episodes are about snacks. Yes. We're here to talk about state of play.

Oh, I was... The movie I had not seen before that. I totally, the tangent that I went on totally took me away from the thing I was going to say, which was the very valid point that you brought up, which is that this movie is incredibly preoccupied with what media and journalism was very preoccupied with at the time, which was, is digital journalism taking over? Is print journalism a dinosaur on the way out? Spoiler alert, yes, to both. But there was this huge sense of anxiety about whether digital journalism was bankrupt and shallow and a lesser quality of journalism. And it's funny to look back from barely over a decade now that this is, that this movie is, and see just how entirely print journalism was sort of seeded over to journalism in ways that, like, I guess in some ways, the, whatever, the worst horror stories of what people worried about that, like, Perez Hilton would be in the White House press room or something like that, like, never came to pass. but right um and in general it's just like all the big print journalists now just like submit their column and it goes up on the new york times web page you know what i mean it's just like that's sort of

where we ended up and everything's got a paywall now and they they figured out probably not a great way to monetize it but like better than whatever everybody's newspaper circulation is down the thing that they should have been worried about more was what the really big bad thing that happened which local papers just started closing. Like the Washington Post was always going to be fine. You know what I mean? Like the New York Times is always going to be fine. It's the, you know. Or they are essentially defunct where you have like local papers where 95% of what is printed in them is just an AP wire article. Right. Local journalism. Right. Local journalism really died up, dried up. And anyway, not to like, that's a whole other tangent. But like this movie really does represent. that, like, huge anxiety of that moment. It's almost the most interesting thing about this movie, because, like, obviously, this is a political intrigue, journalism, thriller, like, you know, doing my research on this.

Like, they, it talked very much about how this is inspired by all the president's men. And it's like, well, every movie like this thinks that it's inspired by all the president's men. Well, and the interesting thing about it, and I'll definitely be going into this more as we go along in this episode is I loved the original British miniseries that this was based on. I watched it. Oh, okay. So this is very interesting because I was going to ask if you had seen it and I had not. So I'm very interested in perspective.

This was an early, I meant to look up when exactly I watched it. I got it on Netflix discs. This was early sort of Netflix, but especially back in that moment when shows that aired on British TV really were really inaccessible unless you torrented, which I have never torrented. Which doesn't make me morally superior. It makes me technologically inept. So, like, don't worry about it.

No, I've never torrented either. And that's less that, like, I am morally superior to anyone. And, like, I'm afraid of, you know, giving my computer the flu. Yes, exactly. Yeah. So I rented state of play pretty soon after it was a, available on DVD. So, if not, like, right in 2003, like, 2004, 2005. So this is even before the American remake was happening and was, like, immediately talked about potential best

picture player. Right. So I was, I was so excited when they announced that State of Play was going to be a movie because it was like, oh, based on that, like, British series that I loved. And so I, like, rented it on the discs. And that was the way that you could, like, you could watch UK queer as folk that way. You could watch, you know, UK skins that way. And so, So all of these shows... There's so many shows that I, like, want to watch that are, like, on showtime, and I don't have showtime, and I'm not paying for yet another streaming service that, like, I can't watch... Yeah, I watched American Queer's Show that way, too. Yeah.

American Queer's Folk was just as inaccessible to me as British Queersfolk, because I didn't have Showtime. So, yeah, it was a great workaround for stuff like that. I watched all of Oz that way via Netflix discs. Like, the heyday of Netflix discs, for as much as people sort of, like, laugh about it as if it's a dinosaur, even though I do still, I'm literally looking at my Netflix. envelopes on my coffee table as we speak. I still have it too, but I'm thinking of canceling. I'm not. I just there's so many DVDs I can

rent and rip and rent and rip that like I just, I need to keep it going. My issue is that. I'm having mail issues. Oh, yeah. That's a bummer. Having a non-reliable mail situation in your apartment is shitty.

But anyway, so the original miniseries of this, it was six hours written by Paul Abbott, directed by David Yates, who basically this, and then he made that movie, The Girl in the Cafe, the TV movie with Bill Nye and Kelly MacDonald, who were both in state of play. And then that basically is what got him,

the Harry Potter gig, that he's been doing forevermore since then. But anyway, so six-part miniseries, the bones of the plot are pretty much the same. They kind of, in the condensing, you lose a character, you end up losing entirely the character that James McAvoy played in the original, which is like a bummer. But it's essentially an MP, a minister of parliament there is investigating. In that one, it is a oil company. It's because it was 2003, the preoccupation was less Blackwater, because Blackwater was a thing that we got worried about a few years down the road.

But in this one, it was an oil company who was there were hearings about and there was a lobbying firm, and they had the ties to the sort of corruption there. But it's still like the reporter and the MP have a longstanding friendship and still the same stuff with the wife. The wife was played by Polly Walker from Rome and several other things. But the movie, when Kevin McDonald decided he wanted to make the movie version of it, and obviously you condense a lot of stuff, and as you can imagine, it unfolds a lot more.

there's a lot more to it in a six-part miniseries, and it was just very compelling and very exciting. The cast is phenomenal. David Morrissey and Bill Nye, James McVoye, as I mentioned. Tom Burke, who I totally forgot, played the gay IT guy in the original, and was my favorite character, and had totally, until I literally went and looked at the cast at just the moment, I was just like, who played the gay IT guy?

And it was Tom Burke. Like, amazing. But Kevin McDonald's version ends up being a lot more preoccupied with this idea of what is journalism now? What can, like, what is the value of a journalistic institution to uncovering corruption? And state of play was a lot more granular in the sort of how the sausage is made of the journalism. and in that way, it essentially told or showed you instead of told you about why journalism is important. But it didn't have these really, like, top-end, top-down sort of preoccupations with

wrestling with the idea of journalism in a modern age where it just sort of told a story. And I think it's a stronger, in almost every aspect, it's a stronger piece of entertainment than the film is, unfortunately. I mean, I would believe that. This movie is like, I was surprised that it got such good reviews because it's pretty, I mean, it's not bland, it's watchable, but it is a little by the book and by the numbers in a way that I'm like, if you had a longer version of this, if this was a mini, like, if I was watching the mini series, I'm sure that like you could get invested in these actual characters. it wouldn't be like generic senator having an affair story. Yeah. I think there's also another level of this movie that feels bland.

And I would believe it being more prominent in another draft of this script. Because this has three prominent script writers and you can imagine like four actually. They were not working in tandem. Peter Morgan also tinkered with the script because it was uncredited though. Right. But Matthew Michael Carnahan originally, he had to leave the project for family. family reasons, so Tony Gilroy took over. And then Billy Ray, and then also Peter Morgan sort of tinkered with it.

So you have these, like, four name screenwriters, which is both fascinating, but also really gives you a sense of this movie, had a few different, a lot of cooks in the kitchen. It feels very diluted. But there is an aspect of this movie that, like, I could believe it being more prominent in another draft that does feel very post-9-11 anxieties as well. Oh, totally. And, like, that's kind of on the fringes with, like, Michael Boresse's, like, assassin character who, you know, served overseas with Ben Affleck. Right.

But, and that sort of gets funneled into, like I said, there was at some point along the line, the more, the farther away you get from the beginning of the Iraq War and the War on Terror, these themes become, these sort of most prominent themes happen in the movies made about. that those subjects, which is, obviously, like, torture was a big theme in a lot of movies about this. Abu Ghraib was a huge inspiration for a lot of movies. We see it up until today with the cart counter, having, you know, such a strong tie, like a literal, like, not even, like, you know, fictionalized tie to Abu Ghraib. But Blackwater was a big one. Blackwater was a big one. was the, for anybody writing a sort of political conspiracy thriller in those late aughts into the teens, that was a huge inspiration for a lot of stuff, because it was, it's sort of, it had it all, right? It was shadowy government, like military, industrial

complex stuff combined with corporate villainy. So it was kind of the perfect storm for putting something in your movie that was just like a combination of all the anxieties we have about the big government versus all the anxieties we have about big corporations and and sort of all into one. Should we maybe get into the 60 second plot description? Yeah, why not? Tie this to some of the stuff that actually happens in the motion picture state of play directed by Kevin McDonald. We'll get into that.

As Joe mentioned, the accredited screenwriters are Matthew Michael Carnahan, Tony Gilroy, and Billy Ray. There's an uncredited rewrite done by Peter Morgan. The film stars, Russell Crow, Ben Affleck, Helen Mirren, Rachel McAdams, Robin Wright, Jason Bateman, Harry Lennox, Jeff Daniels, Michael Boresh, and Viola Davis. Woo! It premiered wide April 17, 2009, after being pushed from an end of the year release. We will talk about that.

Joseph, are you prepared to give a 60-second plot description of state of play? Not in the slightest. Let's do this. Well, you better get ready because your 60-second plot description of state of play starts now. All right, so the movie begins with there's a pickpocket on the run from somebody, and he gets shot, and he was carrying a briefcase and it gets stolen. And then the pizza delivery guy who witnessed this also gets shot, and he doesn't die, he ends up in the hospital.

Around the same time, I think maybe the next day, a young D.C. staffer gets, she gets pushed. Seemingly, she dies on the D.C. Metro, in front of a D.C. metro train. The question is what she pushed, and was it a murder. And so this staffer was working for Congressman Ben Affleck, who's leading hearings into a Blackwater-esque corporation. So Russell Crowe plays a reporter for the quote-unquote Washington Globe, who is an old friend of Afflex who goes looking into this,

and Rachel McAdams plays the digital reporter for that paper. And so she and Crow have a, you know, contentious relationship, but they end up investigating this. And the ties go deep, and there's corruption into Blackwater. And the staffer was having an affair with Affleck and then she was pregnant. And we find out all these things. And eventually we find out that Ben Affleck was employing an assassin to knock her off. Yeah.

Yeah. Didn't even mention Robin Wright as the superfluous. I mean, like those scenes with her, maybe some of the best scenes in the movie, but so inconsequential. Like, when she brings Ben Affleck to basically confess the affair portion of it, it's almost like she's taking him to the principal's office or something, and that is her function in the movie. That angle was amazing, though. That angle was such an important part of the miniseries that it's, I'm not surprised that it got kept into the, the movie because it was so sort of foundational to the miniseries. But there's this inferred, like, they used to be, her and Russell Crow used to be together

when they were all like the three of them friends, right? And they had, they've always had this sort of attraction to each other. But the thing is, in the movie, there's just not enough time to explore that properly. So I almost feel like the movie would have been better off just sort of nixing. her character, or like taking away that element of the wife character and just concentrating on the fact that they are old friends, and that's the kind of corrupting influence of politics and journalism upon one another, because I just don't think the movie has enough time to do it justice, even though you're right, Robin Wright, is really good in this movie.

Yeah. She and Crow, I think, are the two best performances in it. I don't love Russell Crow, and we'll talk about Russell Crowe soon, but Robin Wright is just like, this is like the vein of Robin Wright before House of Cards happens, which like so many of the plot threads in this also happen on House of Cards. Oh, down to like the staffer shoved in front of the DC Metro, like literally, like they totally stole that, yeah.

But she just like shows up in these roles, like Girl with the Dragon Tats. too. And it's like, you are giving so much more than, like, you need to. And it, like, makes her seem, like, the most fleshed out person because, like, she has a great gift at just being a conceivable human on screen with, like, when sometimes, like, this movie, she's surrounded by people who are just doing serviceable work, I think. She essentially plays the stern police captain in Blade Runner 2049, and yet her death has such. a impact on the audience because of what she invests

into that performance and she's so because she's so good and like that's a perfect example. I'm so curious about how much of her performance was cut out of the movie. Blade Runner or this? Blade Runner. Oh, yeah. Because like she is so like very specific

in that movie. I mean, yeah, I don't know how much more, you know, there was to go with that character on the page, but she just She invests so much good stuff into it, and she's really fantastic. But, yeah, state of play, I think she's sort of on an island, unfortunately, without a whole ton to do. And the more exciting stuff, like, you know I love a political thriller.

You know, any time that this movie started to resemble the Pelican Brief was my favorite parts of the movie. So, you know, a chase through the Watergate parking, garage first of all, which is just like that was, you know, obviously an homage to all the president's men is all the stuff, you know, happening with the Watergate here. And that was exciting. Yeah, like there's a whole plot thread that it's like, it's happening in Watergate in the same room. And it's like, we get it. The weak stuff is unfortunately the granular journalism stuff, which was the strength of the miniseries. And I think that's the big disconnect with where this movie doesn't really make it happen is you have Helen Mirren, who is recast in the Bill Nye role, and she's

sort of the, she's got to keep the interests of the newspaper and its owners, and she's got to keep everybody happy and turn a profit, and she's, you know, putting the screws to Russell Crow and Rachel McAdams for them to get the story right and to get it published. And it just feels very, surfacey, unfortunately, whereas in the miniseries, obviously, with so much more time, like Bill Nye's character was a much more richly sort of drawn character. Also, like I said, in the miniseries, he had the McAvoy character, who is his son in that. So there's a whole other character that she could have had to play off of, that Mirren could have had to play off of this. I was wondering who McAvoy basically played in this movie series, because I was like, did they re- Is Rachel McAdams in

the McAvoy role? No, Kelly MacDonald is the Rachel McAddle. Adams in the miniseries. The great Kelly McDonald. The great Kelly McDonald. Yeah. And yeah, so the McAvoy character from the miniseries is just cut out entirely, which is too bad. But. Yeah, because that Mirren character is very, like, it's Helen Miran showing up to give a big monologue about, like, chastising her two employees, but also, essentially the state of journalism.

Because she's like, if you're holding on to this more salacious story. and not running it because you think it's beneath us like we're going to lose the story entirely you know plus like you know getting people to read their paper and speaking of 2009 movies it felt like she felt like

a less vulgar version of Peter Capaldi and in the loop who just sort of like shows up to insult people in a British accent and then leaves but yeah she apparently filmed this role in four days and I

I believe it. Yes. That tracks, unfortunately. Yeah, I mean, the cast in this movie is absolutely insane. Like, it's a hugely, I would argue, overqualified cast, especially when you have things like Jeff Daniels showing up for like two scenes as a corrupt politician, Jason Bateman, who is an interesting fit. The Jason Bateman character in the miniseries is much more of a sort of a fuckboy, kind of a, he's a lot more. more fun, I feel like, in the mini-series. He also- Yeah, and Jason Bateman just basically has greasy hair in this. Jason Bateman makes, like, half a sentence nod towards, like, being bisexual, whereas, like, the bisexuality of the character becomes, like, important in the miniseries, and the Tom Burke character sort of, you know, seduces him to get information out of him, and-but down to, like, Viola Davis as, like, a medical examiner. And, and this was the year after doubt. So, like, she's already an Oscar. Like, obviously, when she filmed it, she wasn't an

Oscar nominee. But by the time this movie comes out, she's already an Oscar nominee. David Harbour, this is one of David Harbour's earliest roles the year after Revolutionary Road. There's a spy for a scene. Zoe Lister Jones shows up for, like, half a second. Barry Shabaka

Henley. It's just, it's a, it's a deep cast, Harry Lennox, as the police detective. A deep cast, but not, in a movie that is a deep bench of characters, if that makes sense. I feel like the cast is deeper than the characters,

which... I think the casting is what... And like the lack of interest and intrigue in the characterizations is a real sign of the kind of meat grinder this movie went through in terms of a production history. Yes. Because

it started as a very prominent script. It was on the 06 blacklist. It was a project for Brad Pitt in the Russell Crow role for a while I'm supposed to reunite him with Edward Norton after Fight Club

Which would have been a huge deal It kept getting pushed partly for like Brad Pitt's schedule but then also the writer's strike happens And Brad Pitt eventually leaves And it gets pushed again Right so Matthew Michael Carnahan was

writing the script for it It's interesting I always find it a little eyebrow raising when an adaptation is a blacklist script, where I was just like, did the state of play script really need to be on the blacklist? It's an adaptation of a very hugely popular British miniseries, but whatever. Matthew Michael Carnahan with the script, he had to step away for family reasons, and then the writer's strike happened, and because of the writer's strike, I'm trying to get the order of things. Maybe he had to step away later, but the problem with the writer's strike was Brad Pitt had issues with the script as it was and as they were ready to go to filming with. And because of the writer's strike, he and the writer weren't able to work that stuff out.

So essentially, is it Paramount is the studio, decided we're just going to go. We can't edit, we can't rewrite this anymore. because of the strike. And so we're just going to go with it as is. And Brad Pitt was like, well, as is, I don't want to do it. And so there was a whole thing. There was talk of like breach of contract and all this other stuff. And eventually they had to recast his role with Russell Crow. And by that point, Gilroy is doing a rewrite. And at some point, Billy Ray is doing a rewrite. So it was just kind of a mess that the writer's strike really complicated. And in retrospect

it would have been an interesting role for Brad Pitt to have taken at that point in his career, I think. I think the movie still has the same problems that it does. Like a lot, most of the problems for this are on the page. But I think

Pitt's an interesting cast for that, for the journalism, or the journalist character. This is kind of a weird, was a weird time for Brad Pitt Right, because... Yeah.

It's around... When was Mr. and Mrs. Smith? 05? 05. So what does he do instead of this, In Glorious Bastards? Well, that definitely came out in 09. I'm not sure

what the cause and effect of this was. The Russell Crow of it was that he had to balance making this with Robin Hood, which at the time was the Nottingham, the Ridley Scott Robin Hood, which I've still never seen. I have still never seen. It is theoretical to me in my mind. There are one too many Robin. Not one. There's like 17 too many Robin Hoods. I will never see the rest of them. But also isn't he like shaved head, not like bald shaved head, but like buzzed in Robin Hood. And he has wondrous frilly locks in this movie. There's a note in the Wikipedia page for State of Play that talks about,

how that links to, which is kind of adorable, they filmed some scenes at a high school in Maryland, I guess. And the high school newspaper got to do a story about like Hollywood came to film a scene at our high school.

And they let them interview with like Russell Crow and Rachel McAdams and whatnot. And there's a little tidbit in there talking about how Rachel McAdams sort of teasing that like Russell was spending a lot of time in hair and makeup to try and hide his long hair that he was growing out for Robin Hood, which to me seems like the exact opposite of what

happened, which was he does have the long hair in state of play, and he has very short hair in Robin Hood. So I don't know whether the anecdote got garbled or whether at some point the hair got longer for state of play. They said, fuck it. And then at some point in Robin Hood, they were like, cut it all off. I don't know. I don't know what's going on. Does he have to cut his hair, G.I. Jane style in Robin Hood? I genuinely have. Anybody who has seen the Ridley Scott Robin Hood, like, hook us up, let us know. If there's a G.I.J. scene in that movie, we should, we deserve to know about it.

So, yeah, maybe Kate Blanchett just, like, takes a... Rusty scissors. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I guess Pitt does end up doing Inglorious Bastards. Although I feel like Brad Pitt was attached to that one for a while. So I don't know what... again, I don't know what the cause and effect was with his career.

I'm curious how the writer's strike affected In Glorious Bastards because Tarantino is not a member of the Riders Guild. Yeah, maybe that was how he was able to make such a good movie during that period when a lot of movies kind of got hamstrung. So one of these days, I'm going to really do a deep dive into all of the movies that got fucked up by the writer's strike and how. because I feel like that is a vast sort of I understand that that was a thing that the writer's strike was a thing that affected a lot of movies. I just was so much more plugged into

its effect on television at the time because it was so immediate where all these shows had to essentially like truncate their seasons and that was the year that I was working at Bravo and I was so excited to be on the same floor as SNL and then the strike happened and so there was no SNL on the floor.

I was just like, Damn it. But, well, I remember the writer's strike more specifically in how it affected awards season. Oh, well, yes. Because that's the year of no golden globes. There was almost no Oscars. It was kind of like the Oscars were like this looming deadline of trying to like get the strike to complete so that or get, you know, an agreement made so that the Oscars could happen. It felt like that was the carrot to getting the studios to make a concession because the studios deeply needed the Oscars in order to goose box office for, you know, whatever, you know, the traditional Oscar effect on the box office, a thing that hopefully will once again be a thing when, uh, I don't know. I keep saying when things go back to normal, I know that's, I know that's not a thing anymore. I know back to normal is no longer a possibility.

When I think the closest to getting back to normal box office-wise is when studios are actually fucking releasing movies on a regular basis and promoting them and, you know. Yeah. Still not there yet. Providing clarity to viewers of like what is exclusively theatrical and like because I do think that there's a certain confusion for viewers right now that like if they don't understand where they can see something and when they can see something, they'll just wait. I think that's true. I also feel like there is still a sizable chunk of the population that's just not going to go to a movie when there's still some semblance of a pandemic out there. And it's partly that group of people. It's partly also, you know, there's just not casual movie going where it's just like people are like, people are going to a movie tonight.

What are we seeing? I don't know. We'll figure it out later. Yeah. Casual movie going is done at home. And I wonder if that will ever come back. And I wonder if we're just going to have to figure out ways to prioritize the theatrical experience in other ways. And I have to think that in a lot of ways, it's going to be holding on to some kind of exclusivity.

Because what else do you have? That's the reason why Spider-Man was the only real blockbuster of the post-pandemic time. It's because people felt like they needed to see it before they got spoiled on it. they got left out of the loop, and it's because there was exclusivity there. If you released that day and date, you could have just watched it at home and made sure that you didn't, you know, find out about the spoilers in other way. So you can't do that with everything, obviously, and you can't do that with, you know, I don't know, what's a, you know, you can't do that with the worst person in the world. You know what I mean? But,

um, I don't know. They're going to have to figure it out. Figure it out. You know, it was a casual, a casual moviegoer movie, state of play. Oh, that's the thing. I mean, you look at this, I feel like I make this note on so many of these movies are just like, this would have been a TV show now, which is a dumb thing to say, because it was a TV show before it was this. And also, I did feel like you look at something like this and just like, well, obviously it didn't get an Oscar nomination because things like that weren't getting Oscar

nominations by that point. But then you look in like, Tinker Taylor Soldier Spy got an Oscar nominations, just two years later, and that was, if not the exact same thing, playing in a pretty similar sandbox, I would say. Right. And those things are harder to score with these days, Oscar-wise, but it is still possible. People still predicted the hell out of this movie, though, when it was supposed to be an end-of-the-year thing because of the pedigree that was involved. When it's like, you know, when it's being run through the meat grinder, like maybe at that point you realize this is not going to be. what it originally was.

And, like, I don't know. Brad Pitt, I still think, I think you're right just to the extent that I think Brad Pitt is a more interesting actor and a more interesting movie star than Russell Crow. Yeah. But, I mean, and Russell Crow is like, you want to talk about casual moviegoer.

This is like the era of him making casual moviegoer movies that are just like, not a lot of these, aside from maybe American gangster, were movies that people were excited, to see on their own and it was just like okay yeah date night movie for adults what are we gonna go see i guess body of lives so when does the the mercer hotel phone throwing incident happen i thought that was during the beautiful mind oscar season i think it was later than that i think i could be wrong i think it was later than that it might have been i also they get very easily conflated with

If he shoved the BAFTA producer? Yes. Okay, the Mercer Hotel incident was June of 05. So that wasn't until after... So that's even after Master and Commander. Yes. So it was like, yes, it was during... It was pre-release for Cinderella Man.

I think that's probably why he was in New York. It was probably doing, I guess, press for Cinderella Man. Not great. The other thing about the Russell... We are the Cinderella Man historians this month on the... this podcast. We're just talking about Cinderella Man. I tried to text my friend who worked at the Mercer Hotel around

that time because I wanted details. Because I feel like when you hear today a celebrity threw a phone at someone and you think well a cell phone and cell phones were smaller back then. But I'm pretty sure it was like the hotel desk

phone that he threw. Oh like in a lot. And there was contention he says that he threw the phone what's that? Oh it happened like the lobby. It all happened in the lobby of this hotel. And he claims that he threw it and it hit the wall and that the guy cut himself, he got a cut on his face. And he says that the guy cut himself running away from him, which is not the defense that you think it is, actually. And he's, he was defending himself on these things like, well, like years and years and years later. He's

never really actually, like, come out and been like, I shouldn't have done that. That was bad. Like, it was still being like, what are you going to do? I was mad. I couldn't call my wife. And so I threw a phone against a wall. And then this, you know, this guy ran away from me and he cut his face. And it's just like, that's still not a story. Even if all of that is true, which grain of salt, like you wouldn't believe with, obviously, you know, just his side of the story. But even if all of that is true, that's not a good story for you. That's not a good Russell Crow story. still, you know, hugely problematic and whatever, and abusive and

wrong. Anyway. Well, and then he was like trying to like joke about it, but it wasn't funny on, was it the BAFTAs or was it the Australian Oscars? I'm not sure. Would he like a bad... Made light of it in a way that was kind of cringy?

Yes. He's never he's never been at all contrite about that. So, yeah, the back hot, Half of the aughts is an odd time for him. He makes two Ridley Scott movies. He makes a good year, which, again, I do feel like we all throw around the term. This movie doesn't exist too much anymore.

Maybe we should all take a break from it. And yet, how else am I supposed to describe a good year, a movie that is directed by Ridley Scott? A Russell Crow, Ridley Scott, Wine movie should have more of an imprint just for being strange, right? It was definitely the first time I remember Marion Cotillard's name sort of No, because she's in Big Fish, right? No, she's in both.

Right, but Big Fish was like years before. That was the first time. But anyway, one of the few times that I remember paying attention to Marion Cotillard before the Oscar. Well, because when Leveon Rose was happening, part of the campaign

was like, she's not a stranger to you. She was in a good. year. And it's like, the movie that no one saw. Sorry, when I say Russell Crow made two Ridley Scott movies, what I meant to say was Russell Crow made four, or Russell Crow made four Ridley Scott movies, because it's a good year in 06, American gangster in 07, Body of Lies in 08, and Robin Hood in 2010. It really did seem like Russell Crow was kind of persona nongrata for a lot of people after the foam throwing, and he was like, what other ornery bastard will show?

shelter me during these hard years. And he's just found Ridley Scott because... But two of those are like the most forgettable Ridley Scott movies. Nobody talks about Body of Lies. No. And nobody talks about Robin Hood. Well, and nobody talks about a good year. Again, the only one of those that anybody saw was American Gangster.

And that's because of Denzel. Yes. But even American Gangster, if I remember correctly, was considered somewhat of a box office disappointment because I think... Right. Didn't it struggle to get to $100 million or it like it didn't? But that was the movie that like a lot of people really liked. A lot of people stuck up for that movie and made the case for it.

It was a seen as a successful Denzel movie. He was at least in the Oscar conversation. And then of course Ruby D gets nominated. So like that movie at least was a player. And in 07, he also, Russell Crow is also in 310 to Yuma, which feels like much more of a Russell Crow movie, even though who's the other, it's Christian Bale, right? He's the other week guy?

It's a James Mangold movie, right? Yeah, I always weirdly think of... I'm not sure about something today. But that's a movie that there's always, like, justice for 310 to Yuma people. I am not a westerns guy, as you know, and I actually like 310 to Yuma,

so I give that, I grade that on a big curve. I'm like, if I like a Western, it's got to be pretty good. I weirdly, I'm a weirdo, so I think of that movie as a Ben Foster, Logan Lerman joint, but, you know, whatever. Boy, you talk about, like, anger balls in a movie, and, like, Russell Crow and Christian Bale, like, the set of that movie must have been a real fucking time. I'll say that. People have very much forgotten the, I mean, because who remembers Terminator Salvation,

but the Terminator Salvation rant from Christian Bale that got leaked and then got songified into like the great techno what don't you fucking understand song i so the thing that i remember most about that is way too many people kind of falling over themselves to be like the man demands perfection on his movie set and that's why we love him as an actor so like why are we why are we giving him a heart like so many people were trying to carry water for him with that. And it was just like, even if you feel like maybe some, like, that the man shouldn't go to prison for yelling at a production staffer on the set, like, we don't need to actually like turn this into, well, this is actually a good thing and not a bad thing, right? He's a, he's passionate about

his work. It's just like, no, he was an asshole on the set. We can say that, right? Like, we can actually, like, there was this weird sense of rallying around Christian. bail to defend him from like people who like not just the normal online cretons who like I don't expect any more of them but like people who should have known better I think really kind of stuck up for him in that moment and that was weird to me especially for that right right exactly like that's the movie like I guess maybe this flip side of that is just like well of course he was frustrated he was making that piece of shit movie it's just like okay but like again if you are a person in a position of power this is the same thing

thing with the Russell Crow thing. Just like, don't let that shit run downhill. Don't let people who are subordinate to you and make a whole lot less money and have no power and could get fired, you know, at the snap of the finger because you're so powerful. Don't, you know, abuse your position in that way. It's a, it's a dick thing to do. We can all say that. We can all admit that.

Anyway. This era of Russell Crow, though, like, even though it's like mostly Ridley Scott movies that no one saw or, like, a few. people care about or still talk about. Right. It's this insistence that Russell Crow was a movie star, which, like, we certainly felt post-Gladiator and, like, a beautiful mind, like, tried to, or a beautiful mind was a movie we both hate, but, you know, position as the prestige movie star.

And, like, you can see from the response to this movie that, like, audiences didn't necessarily feel that way. And it's like, it was a match. And of course, the insider is part of this, too, because he's incredible in the insider. Yeah. But, like, I don't, he's not a draw. He was. I think he was, he was a movie star for a limited amount of time.

He also, I think movie star kinds of pushes things towards a conversation about box office viability. Then I think is, I do think is distinct from a. leading man. You know what I mean? And he still does project in a lot of these sort of late 2000s movies, project the aura of a leading man. And that is still important. And I think state of play does benefit from that. And like, he's not going to make this movie a whole lot of money. But I do feel like if you have a movie where you need to essentially have two bona fide leading men sort of going toe to toe in this movie, you could do worse than. Crow and Affleck. We'll talk about Affleck in a second and his attempts at the Mayor of East Town accent

that he doesn't quite commit. But before we get off of Russell Crow, what I think is interesting is he's in this sort of, again, late Otts wilderness where he's, you know, hiding behind the Ridley Scott's apron, essentially. And he emerges in 2012 with Le Miz and then 23. And 2013 with Man of Steel, and now it's like late era Russell Crow, which is, you know, a little more zofting Russell Crow, a little older, a little more, you know, he's elder statesman at this point, where, you know, Inspector Javert, like, watching him try and sing was kind of adorable. Like, it did a weird thing to his image, where he was so bad at that, that it was hard to

find him intimidating anymore and find him kind of this sort of ferocious thing where like, you know, he's scowling at Steve Martin when Steve Martin makes a joke about him at the Oscars and things like that. And I think something about his performance as Inspector Chavere, you look at that and you're just like, well, this is a cuddly teddy bear who can't sing worth a damn. Like, this is kind of weird. It made him weirdly more likable. And then he gets into things like he's Superman's dad and man of steel he's uh like anybody who was in Winter's Tale is just automatically like how can you you can't like have actual strong feelings about anything because it's just so silly it's just so kind of ridiculous um and he's playing

like Noah and even things like the Shane Black movie The Nice Guys which I really like and I actually think he's really good in it but like his whole role is that like that was a perfect role for him to, like, be interesting again. I loved that movie. I thought he and Gosling were so good in that one. But, yeah, so now we have this sort of, like, this new conception of Russell Crow that is so far removed from Maximus Russell Crow. And it's interesting. I do feel like Le Miz was the one that, like, unlocked that, interestingly enough.

Do we want to jump over to Affleck? Sure, because, I mean, talk about somebody who is constantly back and forth. in terms of public favor, even in the span of, like, weeks at a time. This is kind of an upswing moment for Ben Affleck, sort of, because it's two years after Gone, Baby Gone, which, like, got, maybe the reviews were even more respectable because people were surprised because Ben Affleck was coming off of such a negative, in, like, coming off of a valley, in the peaks in valley. of public favor. Yes.

Gone Baby Gone kind of rescued him from one of his career wildernesses. And the narrative at that moment was, oh, maybe this is what Ben Affleck should be doing now, is directing things. And especially a big thing about Gone Baby Gone was he was directing a movie that he himself wasn't starring in. And so I think people, you know, know, sort of moved to the Redford thing of, because the thing about Robert Redford is not only was he an actor-director, but a lot of his movies that he directed, and a lot of the better

ones especially, were the ones that he didn't star in, like ordinary people and quiz show, right? And so, Affleck, I think a lot of people thought that would be the same thing. And yet, almost immediately, his next two movies that he directs, he stars in, the town and Argo. And obviously, like, those movies were not negatives on his career. Like that worked out for him. But I thought it was so funny that like it kind of goes into my conception of him, which is that, and it's not, it doesn't make him a villain, but like he is a guy with a healthy sense of ego, right?

He is a guy who, if he had had his, have his druthers, he would not remain out of the spotlight for very long. And so after Gone Baby Gone, Gone, like to take a role in a movie like he's just not that into you why what is you know it's not an acting challenge it's like that's a I mean I'm sure he was on set in that movie for like three days sure but that's a role that you take either you're hard up for money or you're hard up for attention and it's one of the two could be both I think it's probably more the latter than the former in that case but whatever um state of play I get I

it taking the role where like it's a it's a good role based on something that was proven to be good so that makes sense to me and it also makes sense to me when he's doing things like terence malloc movies and whatnot or you know gone girl which is another one that seems like such a good role and he was great in that movie perfectly um but things like you know he's just not that into you or the company men or uh runner runner like runner runner is also the movie with justin timberlake right yes which i've never seen i never saw it either not a real movie so affleck continues to confound me uh other things that confound me i did mention the the eastern pennsylvania accent work that he's doing

here, which really truly comes and goes. Like, it seems like he's trying to do it, but he's also not sure if he can pull it off, so he only really deploys it maybe every third sentence or so. And it really makes you appreciate that somebody like Kate Winslet just like dove into the deep end of the pool with hers. And it was just like, if I'm going to do it, I'm going to fucking do it. And here we go. At what point in the movie did you realize he was trying to do that accent?

probably 45 minutes in it was a while right yeah aflick is a weird presence in this movie because we're supposed to believe that he went to college with russell crow already there's a problem there yes it feels very like you're saying it feels weird for his career because he would have filmed this after gone baby gone had like been released and i don't it feels like he was maybe available and like a fifth or sixth choice for this role. Like it doesn't, there's something about him in this that doesn't fit. He's better casting than Edward Norton would have been for the role. Just in terms of I can see Affleck playing a fallible politician a lot more than I can. I don't know who votes for Edward Norton into Congress, whereas like I can see people voting for Ben Affleck. he's got this like golden boy sort of appeal to him and he also feels like somebody who can smile in your face and lie to you and that I think is crucial to the character and I suppose this is fair right yeah but I also don't think he's that good in the role like I don't think it's a good performance yeah I don't think he's good either I think he's part of the kind of blandification of this movie who strangely I also felt that way about

because this is a performer I usually really like but I didn't understand why she was there is Rachel McAdams like Rachel McAdams to me is a performer who you can kind of rely on to make things more interesting

than they should be or like on the page and I think what's in like I think the key example of that is like the movie that's most similar to what this is trying to be and that's spotlight where I was going to say

I'm glad that Rachel McAdams has gone through her journalism paces that she went from state of play to morning glory to eventually spotlight and she finally gets her laurels for spotlight for sort of she's you know graduated J school and now she's you know on a good story and reporting it well and she gets a nomination for spotlight has she played a journalist in anything else or is it just those three I guess journalist is stretching it with morning glory but she's a news producer right so it's conceivable that she has and there's certainly like movies i haven't seen like the time traveler's wife or the malick the she's she in one malic or multiple malics just the one right i believe it's just to the wonder to the walls to

her and her and aflic it's interesting it's there's a lot of uh rachel macadams double dipping because it's she's in this one with aflic along with to the wonder to the wall um she's in this with Jason Bateman, like I said, it's an odd prequel to date night, or game night, rather, not date night, to game night. And did she end up in anything else with Russell Crowe again after this, I wonder? I don't think so. It's interesting that she's in about time with Bill Nye and Bill Nye was initially considered to be, to reprise his role as, as the role that Helen Mirren ends up taking. So it could have been a, a Bill Nye double dip as well. But anyway, yeah, but she was maybe, I expected less from Affleck, so, like, he bothered me less, even though I thought he was boring. But, like, I expected her to offer a little bit more than this kind of nothing character, because she's done that before. What especially drove me crazy is how she was costumed in this movie. You texted me about this. It is late aughts hell in terms of like separates put together at Target.

She wears this like peplum scoop neck that's layered under just like a basic t-shirt. And it felt like the late 2000s were coming back to haunt me. It's like the color combination was like, A dark blue with a chocolate brown. Joe, what was her bottom layer? Oh, gosh. It's chocolate. Shut up.

I hate you. I was like, what are you setting me up for, you monster? Yeah, you texted me about it, and you were like, this is horrifying. And I was like... Mostly just because I felt like it was a time capsule in the worst way of, you know, 2008. I was like, how bad could it be? And then I'm watching the movie, and I was like, oh. Okay, I get it now.

They did our girl dirty. Yeah. It's a, it's a really terribly underwritten role. She really is basically there to be like, I'm writing half of this story too, you know. She says that like four times in the movie. And to represent digital journalism, but in this kind of even like half-assed way where it's like, if you want to make the point that digital journalism is shallow and not up to the task of all of this, you need to at least then make her character start off at least as embodying those traits.

It would have been unfair and dumb, but at least have the courage of your convictions. And ultimately, in this, I'm just like, why are we supposed to feel like she is, that there is any conflict between the two of them and the two of their styles when we You don't really see her have much of a style. We don't get a chance to see her in her element at all. Or have, like, a point of view, not necessarily provide anything substantial, because the movie really just wants to follow Russell Crow. And, like, you get the final beat where he gives her the top billing on their byline.

Right. But it's like, okay. Right. Yeah. It's just this, like, half-ass thing about, like, bloggers and journalists, whatever. But I don't know. I love Rachel McAdams. I do too.

We haven't had her for a while. No, I think we haven't. I think we did Family Stone and Morning Glory, and maybe that's it when it comes to. Oh, I meant like in a new project. Oh, I see. So what's the last time that we've seen her? Well, Eurovision Song Contest. Oh, the exquisite Eurovision Song Contest.

Eurovision Song Contest, Game Night Disobedience. Like, those are the movies she made in between Dr. Strange movies. So she's going to be in the new Dr. Strange coming out, which I'm excited for, but like, she is, of all of the, like, underwritten Marvel love interests, she's really the biggest victim of that. Like, just, like, let her go. Like, just, like, literally just, like, cut her off and let her fly away. Although I get that it's a, it's a fine, fine page. She's also in an upcoming adaptation of the Judy Blume novel, Are You There, God? It's me, Margaret, where I imagine.

Who's doing that? Because it's someone made. It's Kelly Freeman Craig from Edge of 17, the director of Edge of 17. So that's exciting. She plays, I would imagine, the mom. Oh, God, you know who's in that? Every single time I see this person in a cast list, and it's like a big stinking turd in the middle of something. that I'm really excited for. Oh, no.

Benny Softie. Like... Your fave. As I said after Lickrish Pizza, like, you are fully empowered to not cast Benny Safdi in your movie. Like, it is entirely within your power

to do that. There is no financial imperative to do it. It's not like we got to cast this guy to, like, get ourselves some financing or whatever. You're just doing it for weird indie clout and it's annoying. and stop doing it.

There is no benefit to casting Benny Safdi in your movie. Stop, please. If he's supposed to be the dad, I will say I don't buy him and Rachel McAdams has a couple. At all.

Not at all. Kathy Bates is also in that movie, though, which is good. But Jesus Christ. Anyway, yeah, I agree with you. Rachel McAdams is too good for you, Benny Safdi. Exactly.

Exactly. Oh, by the way, another co-star twinning in this movie. She's in a state of play with Robin Wright and the both of them would be in a few years both star in a most wanted man, which is another movie that

tries to play in the sort of political thriller Sandbox. That's another John LaCarray adaptation after Tinker Taylor Soldier Spy. And another movie where Rachel McAdams is giving way more than what's on the page.

Yeah, I think that's true. That's a movie that I remember watching, I remember enjoying, and there was just no hook to it, unfortunately. There was no... Was that after... Was that the last movie that was released before Philip Seymour Hoffman died or the first movie that was released after he died?

I think it was release after. It had played Sundance. It had played Sundance in January of 2014. He died on Super Bowl Sunday in 2014, so that was like early February. and then the movie was released in the United States that summer. So, yeah. Yeah. Not a bad movie, but not a movie I really remember a ton about A Most Wanted Man.

We could do it for a podcast. I remember it being good. Yeah, if we did it, I'll probably devolve into tears because, like, his death still, like, hits me sideways. Yeah. We should do more, Philipsy Moore Hoffman, though. We don't really have a ton. We haven't really done a ton of his movies, and we should. Anyway, what else do we want to talk about?

Kevin McDonald, because you had bragging rights over Last King of Scotland, I remember as one of the early predictors like, this movie is going to be a thing. I did. And it's partly because of his documentary work that you. I loved one day in September quite a bit. That was the documentary where he won the Academy Award. It was about the terrorist.

actions at the Munich Olympics. And I, that was back when, I mean, that's 1999, so I wasn't not plugged into the movies to the point where I was following documentaries, right? I was still pretty, you know, surface level in terms of following movies, following Oscars. And so that one, I can't remember how that one exactly came across my notice, but I remember at one of the summer Olympics, whether it was the Atlanta ones in 96 or even like might have been Barcelona in 92.

But they did, it was probably Barcelona actually because it would have been the 20th anniversary of the Munich Games. And they did a little package where they kind of a retrospective on what had happened at the Munich Games. And I remember being fascinated by it. It was a new story that I had never

really heard of and because it was 12. And watching about it, and I was just, like, riveted and fascinated and then, you know, devastated to find out at the end that, you know, the famous news clip where he says they're all gone. They all, you know, all, you know, all the hostages were killed. And so I was very into seeing this movie one day in September. And I thought it was really good. There was, I think critically it was a little, it's, you know, the documentary feature winner very often is maybe not. the most critically lauded documentary, but maybe the most accessible to a lot of people. And so I feel like reviews on that one were maybe a little bit more mixed than you might expect from a Best Documentary Feature Winner. But I really thought it was really well pulled together. And it was, it benefits a lot from being about an incredibly compelling story. But I think it was

a documentary where you really sort of edge of your seat watching that movie, watching it unfold. And that he had also directed Touching the Void, which is a documentary about a mountain climbing accident, I guess. Which, if I remember correctly, that was, like, hit documentary on the scale of, like, documentaries, you know? I believe so, yes. A movie that made money by documentary standards. Right. So I think between the two of those, Hollywood was, you know, interested to see what he would be able to do, with a narrative feature.

And so the Last King of Scotland is a Searchlight movie? Am I wrong? Yes, it's a Searchlight movie. It's a Searchlight movie. And I did sort of, that was one of those movies that was really sort of like, there wasn't a whole ton of spotlight on it a year ahead of time. But I remember being like, oh, I really like Kevin McDonald as a director. This is a really interesting role for Forrest Whitaker playing Edie Amin.

And so I was like, maybe this will be something. And then, like, you know, Lo and behold, it premieres at I believe Telluride. I think that's right. Let's see. And then Forrest Whitaker has no challenger for the rest of the year. Absolutely none.

It's crazy. Couldn't it, not even poor Peter O'Toole could scrounge up much of a, much of a challenge to him. Yeah. And so. Who I also believe premiered at that Telluride? Venus. Roger Michel's Venus? Yes.

Yeah, so he directs... Maybe one of them was Venice, but... Yeah. He directs one more documentary between the last King of Scotland and State of Play. It's called My Enemy's Enemy. It's about Klaus Barbie and Che Guevara, and that doesn't really make much of a splash. And then so, State of Play, I feel like, was the one where it felt like the stars were kind of aligning. He felt like the perfect person to make that movie because a lot of one day in September felt like it unfolded like a political thriller.

And so this felt like a natural kind of transition for him. And I almost would have liked to have seen, I guess you talk about like how would this movie have been made today? And the answer is it wouldn't because you would just make the British version available. somewhere, right? It would go to Hulu. It would go to HBO Max. It would go to, you know, somewhere. And so you wouldn't bother even making an Americanized remake of it. But certainly if you had made an American version of it as a mini-series, I would have been interested to see what McDonald would have been able to do with that. It's interesting that he hasn't done any, like, television considering the type of genre he usually works in, usually in some type of thriller or a thriller. or adjacent type of film. He is somewhat of a this head Oscar Buzzy director because his most

recent movie is the Mauritanian. Everybody remembers the Moritanian, right? Mortanian came so close to getting not only an Oscar nomination, but like was kind of on the cusp of like a few Oscar nominations. I feel like people really thought

it was in the mix for a lot. It probably was on the cusp. It probably was on the cusp for like a screenplay potential like And then Jody Foster obviously wins the Golden Globe for supporting actress. So she was really in the conversation for supporting actress. I would have liked to have seen how close she came. Where do you think she finished in terms of what place in voting for supporting actress last year?

See, this is the conversation that you and Katie and I have, that it's like, you can remember stuff from a decade ago more than you can remember last year. I mean, like, conceivably possible. possibly sixth, because was she Bafton nominated? I don't think she was, but the movie was in several places. I remember it came on very strong as the season went on. Like, it really felt like it was

peaking at the right time. That movie and the White Tiger both felt like they were peaking at that same right time. Well, we'll have to get into that year soon, because once we pass this year's Oscar ceremony, we have to do a 2020 movie.

He also directed a really kind of interesting action epic that I definitely saw in the theater, mostly because I was obviously so into Channing Tatum, and still am. But he directed a movie called The Eagle, where Channing Tatum plays a Roman centurion who has to find an eagle, like a standard in the shape of an eagle, to bring back home. because it was, belonged to his father or something, whatever, Roman action epic, where it's, uh, it's him and then Jamie Bell as his, as they say in the movie, as his slave. And so I, there was like, obviously a lot of like jokes being made about, you know, uh, Channing Tatum having Jamie Bell as his slave. And so, anyway, um, definitely saw it in the theater. Definitely remember at the time being like, that's a movie. That is definitely a movie. And, And, but yeah, did not make very much money, I feel like.

Anyway, at least for its genre, it did not make a whole lot of money. So what is he doing next, I wonder, if he's got anything on the horizon. Hold on. He did do the Whitney Houston documentary that came out a few years ago that... Right. Not got him in some hot water, but got pushback. from the family for some of those interviews. Well, the family is still very, very dedicated to not

talking about her as a queer person. Well, and not openly talking about some of the abuse she went through, and other family members have said that they went through. There's a lot that, yeah. There's a whole lot of stuff, and like, at the time I felt that, And we have a Whitney Houston biopic coming this year, starring Naomiaki, who I love. But I just wish that people would let Whitney rest in place. I very much agree with you there.

I very much agree with you. It starts to feel like you're picking at the bones of a corpse, like not to be indelicate with a metaphor. Of someone who is treated very poorly. And yeah, leave her alone. Just let her be. Yes, I agree. All right. What else do we want to talk about with regard to state of play?

Is it worth talking about Mirren at all in this? We haven't really had a whole lot of occasion to talk about Helen Mirren. We've only ever done one other Helen Mirren movie. Just does so many movies. I mean, like, this was filmed in four days, and, like, that's, you know, a trivia tidbit. Like, as if that's any different for what it feels like a lot of the roles that she does. she shows up and, like, gets her with or and credit in a lot of movies, and that's what it is. Have we done any other mirrors besides Woman and Gold?

No. Wow. That was our first. This is our second. I think it's because she's either in movies that are just not on, well, though that's not really true. There's definitely movies she's made that we could end up doing. We definitely have to do The Good Liar. I've said that several times.

I think that's a perfect this had Oscar buzz movie. But she's just, she finds success with Oscar a lot of times. And even stuff when she misses, like the woman in gold or Trumbo or Hitchcock, those things still get a nomination. Well, not Women in Gold, but Hitchcock and Trumbo did. Right. I think a good one whenever we eventually do it to talk about Helen Mirren, because she is that shit in this movie along. with everything else is collateral beauty. Well, yes.

We keep talking about how exactly we want to deploy collateral beauty on this podcast, because that's a big good. Saving it. We're at the point where it's like, okay, we've got to save some big ones for stuff. It's that thing where you ever go grocery shopping and you get one thing and you're really excited about like, oh, this will be like my best dinner of the week.

And you know what I mean? It's just like a porkloin or something like that. And you're just like, well, I can't have it on just Monday. this is just a stupid Monday you know what I mean where it's like all of a sudden 630 and I haven't really started doing anything

and then Tuesday and it's like I didn't think to defrost it all right and then it's like by the time the sudden you reach the end of the week

and it's just like well now I got this freezer burned pork loin and the you know whatever and it's just like the moment has passed and all of a sudden

you've wasted the good pork loin this is how I feel like with collateral beauty is we're holding on to it and we don't quite know what for yet and we want to make

sure that it's right, and it's the right moment. But we'll figure it out. We'll do right by it. Helen Maren. What else? What else? Helen Mirren, man. This movie got a nomination from the Alliance of Women Film Journalists

for actress defying age and ageism. For Robin Wright. Tied up with the private lives of Pippa Lee. That feels like a little bit like a backhand. I don't know. Not to slight the alliance. Yeah, like, it's a little bit like

you are still hot. And it's like, okay. It feels a little condescending. It feels a little, you know, I don't know. Sexy at any age. Well, Merrill wins this year. So, like, you, it feels like less, it's it's complicated. Oh, also the third movie Robin Wright was tied up for

in this category besides Private Lives of Pippily and this is a Christmas carol. All right, this is where your argument falls apart. This is where your argument falls apart, Alliance of Women Film Journalists. Like, what are we doing? Sexy at any age, and it's just like mocap, Robin Wright,

in a Christmas carol? Like, what the fuck? What's going on? Jesus. The other nominees are Sophia Loren in nine. Sure. Michelle Pfeiffer in something called Personal Effects. Oh, I remember that title, but never saw that movie.

But yes, Merrill wins for Julian Julia. It's complicated and fantastic Mr. Fox. That's, I feel like this is the ideal where it doesn't feel like a backhand because, like, this was around the time where people finally realize, oh, yeah, Merrill Street movies make a fuck ton of money. And like, yes, true. Yes. It feels like there's a whole lot of, like, people trying to reassert that the rule is that only men can make money. movies and but like the other ones it feels like oh you're still hot like what are you trying to say with these nominations i don't know but uh we we support any um positive nominations for robin right she's great i should also say in terms of nominations that this movie got kevin macdonald was

nominated at the london film critic circle awards for british director of the year for this he was nominated alongside, well, the winner was Andrea Arnold for Fish Tank, which that's rad. That's super rad. Iconic Michael Fassbender ass crack cinema is fish tank.

Sam Taylor Johnson for Nowhere Boy, which get your life, girl, as far as I'm concerned. Like, get your young husband. If you're saying we should retire, movie doesn't exist because Nowhere Boy is a movie that definitely doesn't exist. We should just start calling those movie Nowhere

Boys. It's a good point. Armando Ianucci for In the Loop, which I was and am in love with. Absolutely adore that that movie got a screenplay nomination from the Oscars. Highly deserved. Saw that movie in theaters and then have watched it at least once a year since then. So, so good. And then Duncan Jones, son of David Bowie, for Moon, Duncan Jones, who yelled at me on Twitter one time because I Made fun of Warcraft? No, well, in the guise of Warcraft,

what was the Jake Gyllenhaal movie that he made? Source code. I said source code wasn't a successful movie and he yelled at me on Twitter because I was apparently wrong. Sorry. Is he just searching source code?

Where does he... This is one of those things where it's like some of these people who are yelling at, some of these filmmakers who are yelling at things. It's like, you're just searching for your name and the name of people. Well, it was from an article that I had written. So I at least will give, you know, don't, again, don't seek out your own press if you're a filmmaker.

But also, like, at least he wasn't like just searching tweets. That at least was at least an article that I had written. But unlike, no, I won't say it. He said I was an idiot. But anyway, best of luck to Duncan Jones. You were right. You were right. It was not a successful movie. I didn't hate source code. It's not a bad movie, but it didn't light the world on fire. I'm not wrong about saying that. Anyway, Moon's a good... Should we move on to the IMDB game? Yes, let's. All right. Tell us what the IMDB game is. Oh, will I ever? Every week we end our episodes with the IMDB game, where we challenge each other with an actor or actress to try and guess the top four titles that IMDB says they are most known for.

If any of those titles are television, voice-only performances, or non-acting credits, we mention that up front. After two wrong guesses, we get the remaining titles release years as a clue, and if that's not enough, it just becomes a free-for-all of hints. That is the IMDB game. Spectacular. Would you like to give her guess first? Well, why don't I give first? All right. Homs do you have for me? So I mentioned that the mini-series state of play was written by Paul Abbott, but it was directed by David Yates, who eventually just sort of gave himself over body and soul to the Harry Potter franchise and all of its permutations.

He is coming out next with Fantastic Beasts, The Secrets of Dumbledore, which we get it. You know, ha-ha, Secrets of Dumbledore. He's a big old Nelly Queen. where he's taking over the role of Grindelwald from disgraced Johnny Depp. So, Mads Mikkelson is taking over the role of Grindelwald from the disgraced Johnny Depp, I should say, and that's who I would like you to guess for your IMDB game is the great Mads Mikkelson. Okay, how much TV is on there? One.

Hannibal. Yes. Great. Hannibal, what a cool show. Oh, I fucking loved Hannibal. Like, absolutely grossest shit I've ever seen in television. I actually feel like it's going to be pretty influential because, like, we talked about on our Sundance episode, the movie Fresh, which like, without spoiling too much of that movie, I feel like there are stretches of it that it is like very liberally stealing from. Hannibal.

I sometimes imagine that NBC at the time just put those episodes on the air without ever watching them because it is shocking to me that on network television... That it was a primetime television. Prime time network television where somebody is

murdered in a way where they are made into a cello where they're like tendons and bones and whatnot are played like a cello. just there was a person who like mostly suggestive but some of it is but some of it is but then there's some shit that's like oh my god there was one person on that show who was like cut up into sections and then like displayed on like slides that would be like a 3D puzzle kind of a way

there was also somebody who was cut out of the belly of a horse there was a lot going on in handball and it was all super fucking gross and totally awesome and I loved that show. God, I loved that show. All right. So you got Hannibal's right. Matt Mickelson. Back to his known for. Another round. Definitely another round. Another round, which he should have gotten an Oscar nomination

for. 1,000% should have. A bummer than it didn't happen. That it didn't come close to happening. That's the annoying part. That he never seemed to be in the conversation, which was dumb. I mean, that Oscar year, like me saying, give it another month. And like, that's like

absolutely not. But like, give it another month, then he could have had a best actor nomination. He was back to him. Sure. If the Oscar campaign had gone into July, then yes. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Exactly. Another movie that got like critical buzz for and he won Can the Hunt is definitely in there. Yes. That's the one I thought was going to trip you up. Interesting. Okay. So I have a hard time believing that there is a, because he's done enough, like, studio movies. that, or, like, movies in America, that I have a hard time believing that it's another

non-English language movie. So I'm going to guess, um, Casino Royale. It's utterly dumb that it's not Casino Royale, but it's not. It's so, it's so weird to me. He does ball torture to Daniel Craig. Made him a thing in the United States. Interesting. It's not.

Okay. Okay, so what other franchises has he been in? Unless... He is in Rogue One. Is it Rogue One? It's not Rogue One. So that's two strikes. So your missing year is 2016.

Okay. I don't think that's going to help me. Which was the same year as Rogue One. one as it happens. Was Hannibal still on the air? I don't think so. I think it ended in 2015. Okay, is it the Rihanna Bitch Better Have My Money video?

I love his quote for that. He's like, I was in this video. Bitch better have my money. I guess I'm the bitch. What a wonderful man. 2016. Yeah. Okay I'll say you are on the right track with Rogue One Okay

You What does that mean? Your impulse to go down that road was correct The Star Wars Road? No, not that specific But the franchise road Yes So he's in another franchise movie from 2016

This is a movie you've definitely Definitely, I would bet money you've never seen it, and you probably then don't know that he's in it, even though he is... Oh, is it a Fast and the Furious movie? No. Because I've never seen any of those, and I have zero planned to. He's the main antagonist in this movie. I mentioned it in this podcast. What franchises did we talk about?

Now with Russell Crow... Ben Aff. It's not the Batman versus Superman, is it? Nope. Is he the bad guy in Dr. Strange? She's the bad guy in Dr. Strange. Yes, he is. I have seen that movie, and I remember zero from that movie.

I watched that movie the day after Trump was elected president. I was walking home from work. That's probably why I don't remember anything from that movie. I was walking home from work, and I'm like, I need a distraction. like nobody's business and I walked and I bought a ticket to Dr. Strange and I sat down and I could not my I could not surrender myself to that movie. I was so annoyed by it. I was like what the fuck is going on in this thing. I was also exhausted because I was up late the night before and so I like couldn't keep my eyes open and I just I owe that movie for as much as you know I do

I'm such a Marvel person that like I should go back. and watch that one again because I was just not in the right headspace for it but like oh man I did see this one because this is before I was like I'm not watching these Marvel movies anymore Our Great Schism, Chris Our Great Schism that happened with Black Widow

I will I'm just I'm You know it's a good movie You know it's a good movie is Black Widow All right give me yours Not a good movie Terrible movie Not a great movie Good movie. Very good movie.

Okay, so we talked about Ben Affleck as an actor-director, but we also talked about one of State of Play's main influences, and that's all the president's men. How can I close this circle in any other way, but to give you Robert Redford? Robert Redford. We talked about him before. We have one of his credits is just a directing clip. Just a director. That was what I was going to. ask. Okay. Well, for as much as quiz show is the more recent one, and I love it,

I'm going to guess it's ordinary people. That is a correct. Guess it is ordinary people. All right. So, iconic Redford shit. Um, not going to guess all is lost. Did I tell you? I found, I sent that to you. right, the clip of the talkback? The Is All Lost? Where I found

the Is All Lost clip. I sent that to you and Katie, right? I don't think so. Oh, I did. I'll find it again. I definitely did. Anyway, it was amazing. It was as amazing as I remember it. It was, my recall of it was perfect. All right, anyway.

The Sting. No. Damn it. The Sting, which I didn't even realize, I think I knew this. I just, like, it's one of those things that. His only acting not. nomination? His only acting nomination.

Yeah, it's crazy. Yeah, the fact that it was his only acting nomination and won best picture is what made me think it would be on there. Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid. Correct. Okay. So that's two out of four. With one wrong guess for the sting.

Did we talk when I watch the sting? No. I didn't like it. The only, I've never seen the movie of it. My little sister was in, uh, Her drama club in high school, they did the play of The Sting. Oh, well, that is cool. Yeah, it was fun.

Yeah, it's just not for me. Her character, I get that people love it. She was a small, she was a side character, and her character description in the notes was a beefy man. And so that was fun. That was fun for her. Oh, great. It's not going to be, unfortunately, my beloved sneakers, even though that is a perfect. movie perfect 90s artifact

impeccably cast Sidney Poitier rest in peace River Phoenix also rest in peace All right Redford Redford Redford I feel like there's going to be one thing sort of more recent and then one

old thing Can't give you any hints yet No don't I'm just going to I'm going to guess the way we were and then get the years. Incorrect, not the way we were. Your years are 1984 and

1976. Okay, so 84 is the most recent. 84's got to be the natural. It is the natural. The natural is first on his known for. Natural's really well beloved. Natural also filmed in Buffalo, New York, I should say. Oh. And like, recognizably so. You can see a lot of a lot of local landmarks there.

The only thing I remember about the natural is I fell asleep watching it as a child, so it's probably not for me. I will say, for a movie that's very baseball-y, it is actressy as you please. Like, particularly Barbara Hershey and Kim Basinger's performances are like, there's some deliciousness happening there. And then Glenn Close got nominated for Standing Up in a Pretty Dress for that would be. Okay.

So what was the other year? 76. All the President's met. All the President's men. There we go. You dastardly, dastardly jerk. All right.

There we go. Well, at least I, at least I, that's, I like, we should do more, uh, uh, actors with older filmographies because I think I like the challenge of that.

Yeah, let's do it. Let's commit to that. Let's, let's do that. as a late New Year's resolution. Yeah, exactly. All right, so guys, that's our episode.

If you want more, ThisHad Oscar Buzz, you can check out the Tumblr at this head oscarbuzz.com. You should also follow our Twitter account at Had underscore Oscar underscore Buzz. Joe, where can the listeners find more of you? Sure, Twitter and Letterbox, both as Joe Reed, read spelled, R-E-I-D. I am also on Twitter and Letterbox at Chris V-File.

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