This Had Oscar Buzz - 186 – Danny Collins

Episode Date: March 21, 2022

This week, we’re looking at another surprise Golden Globe nomination that fueled minor Oscar talk, 2015′s Danny Collins. An assemblage of fedoras, silk scarves, and one catchy original song, the film stars Al Pacino as a washed up singer in the vein of Neil Diamond who ingratiates himself to the family of his estranged son. Written … Continue reading "186 – Danny Collins"

Uh-oh, wrong house. No, the right house. I didn't get that! We want to talk to Marilyn Hacks. So you're staying indefinitely here? Are you on drugs? Currently or in general? Currently?

No. Dinner? You're asking me to dinner? I think so. I'm going to have to decline. You're not a friend? Currently or in general? In general.

No. But we have good patter. Why in New Jersey? I'm meeting someone for the first time. How do I look? Well, you look slightly ridiculous. Nah. See you at 7.

No, you won't. You'd expect it to be easy meeting your grown son for the first time. Hello. Hello. Why are you here? I'm just making some changes in my life. In a few minutes, my husband's going to walk through that door, and this will be the last time I ever see you.

We have every right to be angry. I don't care enough to be angry, okay? Nice to meet you. Have a good life. Hello, and welcome to the This Had Oscar Buzz podcast, the only podcast that does have a balloon. Every week on This Had Oscar Buzz, we'll be talking about a different movie

that once upon a time had Lofty Academy Award aspirations, but for some reason or another, it all went wrong. The Oscar hopes died, and we are here to perform the autopsy. I am your host, Chris Fyle, and I'm here, as always, with the only podcast host featured in Gal Gadot's Imagine video, Joe Reed. Hey, baby, doll, what's going on? Hey, baby. Okay, so that is obviously supposed to be Sweet Caroline.

It's a very, very thin gloss on Sweet Caroline. I, in my preparation for our episode on Danny Collins, I read some reviews, and in two consecutive reviews, one by Jordan Hoffman, one by Wesley Morris. They each mentioned one thing. Our finest. Yes, we love them. They each mentioned one thing in the movie that was so

close to a rip-off that it would have been legally actionable. Jordan mentioned Annette Benning is doing a Diane Keaton performance to the point of action ability. And Wesley Morris was like, hey, baby doll, is close enough to Sweet Caroline to be like you could make

a legal case for copyright infringement. It's true. It's true in both cases. It is neither are lies. It's very true. The John Lennon's stuff in this movie. Of course, Imagine is featured

in this movie. This movie feels very imagined video. To the point that I almost went back and watched the cursed thing to be like, is Al Pacino in that? Wouldn't have surprised me. wouldn't have surprised me. He's in that strata of celebrity who would get invited to something like that.

I imagine the entire Danny Collins cast was invited and the only one who said no was a net. It's very possible. It's very possible. Here's the thing, and I feel like I should put this out here right at the top, is, and to preface this, I am unwell. Like, this is a rough... This time of year, I am burnt out to a crisp. This is my busy season.

I am juggling multiple jobs and multiple assignments and multiple... I'm juggling a home move right now. I have a feeling I know exactly what you're going to say, and I'm going to be with you. I ended up really liking Danny Collins. I kind of like this movie. I found it really genuinely charming. I thought every performance is... in it was good, like, all of them?

I wouldn't go that far. Who would you say is not? It's not that, like, Jennifer Garner and Bobby Cannavali are not good. It's that, like, why are they there? Those characters suck, and, like, they are working way too, way too hard for these nothing characters. Everything in this movie is cliche, but I will argue, I think Connavali is baseline good. I think Garner, in her first scene especially, is

kind of great sort of spinning straw into gold. Like I genuinely, I think she's like, she's doing, she's operating on a key that I don't think we see her operate on a lot, which is like this very kind of earthy, non-perky, you know what I mean? This is not a capital one. She was the nicer sister of her Juno character? A little bit, yeah. Like nicer younger sister to that character.

I wondered if part of it was that she was playing. a pregnant character. I know she wasn't pregnant in Juno, but so much of Juno was about her and have a baby. And I wondered whether that was making me think of her Gino character, but, like, there were temperamental similarities between the two, and I think she's actually quite good. I think Christopher Plummer, in his one big scene towards the end of the movie, is actually... That pussy magnet with a fedora, Christopher Plummer. Okay, also... What a stud. Guinness World Record held for this movie for number of fedoras in a film.

There are just so many. There are just so many of them, especially in the opening scene where we're seeing the sort of like loose party animal, Danny Collins. Danny Collins is a movie that trades in fedoras and loose scarves. The ratio of people to fedora in that opening scene is like nearly one-to-one. It's really something. I think Pacino particularly graded on the curve of,

where his career had been in the like decade leading up to this movie it's it's good Pacino he's giving a charming performance if this happened in the era of the memes

of Pacino listening to his headphones walking down the street dancing this movie would have been a genuine hit and I know that that sounds end of days to say but like it feels like this movie happened to too early. It makes me feel like Dunkicino era Al Pacino was more of a choice and less, because

remember when Dunkinio happened and we were all like, this is wild, but also what is Al Pacino doing? Where is, where, what has his career come to? And now I look at that night. That was maybe what, four years before Danny Collins. But I look at it and I'm just like, is this sort of just like where Al was at temperamentally? career at this point. And, like, I'm kind of cool with that. I'm kind of good. Um, I definitely see, I mean, whatever, the Hollywood foreign press saw whatever gift bag they got from, uh, what's the studio? Bleaker Street, who did this? Bleaker. We've talked about Bleaker recently on our, uh, on Chesel Beach episode. Yes. Um, so like, it's, it's hard to be like, Hollywood foreign

press really knew what they were talking about when they nominated this. It's like, I don't know. I don't know what they were thinking, but like, sometimes they're accidentally right. I mean that nomination was like a punchline, but actually, at the end of the day, I think it's a good nomination. Wait, all right. We can't do, we can't delve into the Golden Globes before we get into the plot description. No, no, no, no, we're not going all the way in. We will. We're not going to talk fully about Dan Fogelman yet, but I do want to preface by saying this is the most transcendent of Dan Fogelman's bullshit, even though all of it is there. We have a lot of, actually a lot of topics to get into because, like, this is really. only our third Al Pacino movie, and the first two were still ensconced in that

just, Frankie and Johnny was just prior to his Oscar, and Carlito's Way was just after it. So it's still in this early 90s. We're still in what many would consider, if not the prime of Petino's career, then A prime of Petino's career, right? He's still sort of the guy. And this is a definitely different era of El Pacino, and I really want to get into that. I want to get into, we haven't had a ton of opportunity to talk about Net Benning on this podcast, so I'd like to do that.

And I don't know, there's just like, there's a few things going on in this movie that I think are kind of interesting. Yeah. And we're sort of talking about. I had a lot of why I had such a good time with this movie was the Pacino performance. I think maybe as decent as this movie is, it kind of. kind of probably falls apart if Al Pacino is not exactly that level of charming. Totally.

And, like, it's super formulaic to the point where it's just, like, the function that Annette Benning's character plays in the movie is kind of silly. But, like, I did not unenjoy myself. I think this is why I sort of come back to the fact that, like, I think all the performer performances are operating on the cylinders that you need them to do to carry this movie off. But I also feel like, and, you know, we're going to. to sort of have our fun with Dan Fogelman. But I think he as a writer, and particularly it sort of shows up in this movie, he's not a force for evil in this world. He's corny. He's fond

of cliches. He's, you know, not operating on the higher levels. But I look at his sort of roster of movies. And I think even of a show, like, this is us is not a force for evil in this world. It's not a show that I'm particularly interested in watching, but we could do worse, I would say, as a culture. Yes. What are you, what are you, what are you silently judging me for? Wait a second. What is that silence? No, no, no. I mean, like, I agree. I agree. I mean, we're talking, we're going to be talking about because we've also done, he didn't direct it, but he wrote crazy stupid love, which we've done before. Yes. And like, I, I, that's a that's another movie that I think despite its problems like we do enjoy but like those

problems are like bad problems and like Danny Collins's problems are just more like this is really cliche I like Danny Collins quite a bit more than I liked crazy stupid love and maybe that's the expectation game maybe that's the expectation game doing its thing where I had higher hopes for crazy stupid love and I had lower expectations for this and this one yeah surpassed And now, since we've had a surprise, we like it movie. It's true. It's true. I was pleasantly, I literally, I did have the thought, I was like, is this just because

I'm so stressed out and so overworked and I'm glad that I'm watching something that's just sort of pleasant and charming? Ultimately, at the end of the day, I don't care. But I was happy. I was happy to watch it. I'm less confused now by things like a Rotten Tomatoes rating in the high 70s or a Golden Globe nomination or something like that. I mean, like, that's...

But this may... It makes complete sense. A, I think that's a good Globe comedy nomination. Yes. But also, you have to look, just like anything. You have to look at the metacritic... You are forever the... You got to look at the metacritic guy of the two of us.

Well, no, you got to look at them together. And, like, this split for this movie makes total sense. It's a certified fresh movie, 78%, but it's, like, low 50s, mid-50s, mid-fifty. on Metacritic, which is, like, it got a lot of mildly positive. It's a three out of five movie down the middle. It's absolutely it. But, like, yeah, I'm happy to have seen it. And I'm happy to get into all the stuff we're going to be able to get into with this.

So, yeah, very good. Fantastic. Well, then let's move along to the 60-second plot description. Maybe one of the earliest we've gotten there. We've been doing it earlier, I feel like. I feel like I've been itchier about keeping us on a linear timeline, I don't know, in these things, not getting too far ahead of ourselves, which is folly, as I know, but, you know, whatever. You know, being too easily distracted. Us?

I can't imagine. Couldn't do this. With various passionate things to say. Once again, we are talking about the film Danny Collins, Daniel Collins. A movie that I'm sure very few of our listeners have seen. There is a pro tennis player named Danielle Collins,

American tennis player. And every single time she has a match on television or I'm mentioning her to one of my tennis friends, I always say Danny Collins and nobody gets it. Nobody thinks it's funny. But she is just Danny Collins to me.

And again, that's fine. I'm fine being the only person and giggling to myself when I do that and for the end of time, I will. But that's fine. That's good. The punchline of just bringing up Danny Collins has probably

been taken from us by liking this movie, I would argue. Honestly, though, it's still, we like this movie, but we're allowed to like this movie. Listeners, nobody watch this movie. Don't do it so that we can still use it as a punchline. No, here's what

I want. I want our listeners to watch this movie, and then like we will be the lone bubble of Danny Collins appreciators in the world and it'll be just our little thing it'll be our thing The Gary's are allowed to watch Danny Collins

but only the Gary's It's a movie for Gary's Movies for Gary's is our awards It's our M for G's Oh wow Okay so I won't fall down that rabbit hole Just yet

But listeners Gary's out there. If you need a movies for Gary's, you can all mobilize. We'll figure this out. Back to the 60-second plot description. We're here to talk about Danny Collins written and directed by none other than Dan Vogelman.

Starring Al Pacino. Don't make him to take his glasses off. He's Al Pacino. Annette Benning, Bobby Kenevali, Jennifer Garner, Christopher Plummer, human sex object. You are really.

I'm really into Christopher Plummer. You were sending me, like, screen grabs. He, like, not necessarily, like, my type, but it's like, look at this handsome guy. Like, he's still, he's still doing it, like, you know, at 90 or whatever in this movie. Yeah. He's just, he's definitely, uh, dressed to be a certain type of character. Anyway, also starring Josh Peck, Nick Offerman, and Melissa Benoist. Yeah.

It's a deep cast. The movie opened, uh, in a limited release. of March of 2015. Indeed. Very limited. So limited that nobody saw it. I mean, it made like $5 million, which I think for Bleaker is actually one of their better releases. Sure.

Nobody you know saw it. Nobody talked about it. Have your parents seen this? No, but I bet you they would like it. I was going to, I was like, I should tell my mom to watch this movie. I was going through the Pacino, we'll go through the Pacino 2000s filmography in a second, but as I was, I came across prime Mr. and Mrs. Reed film, which is stand-up guys.

Sure, sure. The 2012, the Fisher Stevens directed movie, stand-up guys, which is always the... Fisher-Stevens directed that movie? Yes. Oscar-winning short film director, Fisher-Stevens. Yeah, the one day my dad trying to explain, trying to describe this movie to me, and I just was not getting it. And he was like, it's Christopher Walken, it's Alan Arkin, it's, I don't even think he mentioned Pacino, which is very funny. He's like, that sounds like going in style.

It does sound like, I kept being like going in style, Last Vegas. Right, like going in style is Las Vegas, but it's just set in like, I don't know, Tallahassee. Right. I was like old dogs, no, wild hogs, no, all of these things that I like, anything where it was like four old actors, which is like a booming genre, could not come up with standup guys. And once he said it to me, I was like, oh yeah, I definitely remember hearing about that. But like could not. And like, he's describing the like fairly intricate plot. He's like, Julianna Margulies is in it. I'm like, absolutely not have I heard of this. Like 100% do not know. So this is that is a, that's a dad. read all-star movie is stand-up guys right there. All right. We should bring your dad on the podcast. Absolutely. Lie about stand-up guys.

You're like, yeah. Tell us about stand-up guys. No. This podcast is, uh, is, I shouldn't say none of their business. That sounds weird. That sounds like, stay away from that podcast. It's just like, we, we are none of, uh, none of his concern, none of their concern at all. I feel like listeners of long episodes would be very,

angry if my dad came on because it would be a five-hour episode talking about what film what film would your dad like to talk about oh god i don't even know um that's a good question for a later date all right are you ready to give a 60-second plot description of dany collins we're ramping up to a plot description yes yes i am all right then joseph read your 60-second plot description of danny collins starts now all right alpuccino plays danny collins and neil diamondesque passed his prime singer who's still touring, still blowing lines, and partying after his shows, and is about to marry a low-key gold-digging millennial when his manager surfaces a letter that John Lennon once wrote him, telling him to live with integrity or whatever.

So Danny decides to change his life around, ditches the gold digger and heads for New Jersey, to see the son he's neglected his whole life. The son hates him. The son's pregnant wife gives Danny what for, and their daughter has ADHD, which Danny tries to help with his well-intentioned money, all the while trying to romance Annette Benning as the buttoned-up manager at the Hilton where he's staying. Benning's character and also the Lennon note inspires Danny to write new, more soulful music as well as push for a relationship with his son who might be dying of leukemia.

Danny gets too scared to try his new music in front of his fans who just want the hits, and he backslides into Coke and gold diggers and makes everybody mad at him again for like two scenes. But Danny ultimately makes amends, sets off on tour again with his new music and stands by his son through what we can all hope is a full recovery. The end, Hey Baby Doll, what's going on? And that's time. I should have said that at the beginning. Hey, baby doll, what's going on? It should have been opening cell, though.

But how would I have known that I had extra time? You're going to have to find a way to make it the outro music because I don't think our listeners are going to think that it's a real song, even though it was shortlisted for Best Original Song. So I imagine, if you mentioned in the outline that two songs were shortlisted, I imagine it was Hey Baby Doll, which is not written by Ryan Adams,

and then Mary, which is the sort of like good song that was written by Ryan Adams. No, it was Don't Look Down in Hey Baby Doll. Which one is Don't Look Down? Is that the, is that the, his, like, piano song that he makes from him? Hold on. Let me see. Let me look up the soundtrack listing.

Don't look. That might have been, like, yeah, that was another one that was written by Ryan Adams. Both of those songs produced by Don Waz, who's one of those, like, record producers of, like, adult contempo stuff. Anyway. If you think that we've gotten an episode with. without any disgusting men in it. This movie has original songs and original score written by Ryan Adams.

Here's my thing, though. We don't even need to, and we sort of went into this when we did our Elizabeth Town episode where we were just like, Ryan Adams is gross, and yet we both really like that song that they used in Elizabeth Town.

And whatever, we can reckon with the fact that probably all of the great musicians of the 1970s were gross men, another day. But we can appreciate Hey Baby Doll without guilt because he had nothing to do with that one and it is my contention that hey baby doll is to me what why did you do that to me uh is to everybody else you know how everybody else was like the real best song in a star is born is why'd you come on in here with an ass like that and i'm just

like i never really got on board with that but like hey baby doll serves that same function which is this is the song that's supposed to represent the shallow how much he's sold out yeah like aspect of his career and in my mind I'm like this is a bop and I really respect the people who wrote it for that particular like to thread that particular needle in the movie I'm like that takes some skill if hey baby doll is a sweet Caroline ripoff honestly it's better than sweet Caroline fuck that song um but okay but no I wanted to bring up the original song thing intentionally because it's not just the Pacino Golden Globe nomination that we can kind of talk about 2015 a notoriously cursed original song year. We've talked about it before, but it's worth talking about it again because we can rant and rave all day about the song nominees that year.

They were bad. They were bad song nominees. Pretty bad. We have the Hunting Ground song that Gaga did with Diane Warren. Honestly, I know that you're like, go all the way back in time. That should have won.

It was, you know, like, I understand the complaints about that song, but it's definitely the best in that lineup. Of the nominees? Like, I'm not saying it was the best song of that year. I mean, maybe not the best. I probably, I would have voted for 50 Shades of Gray the weekend's song. It was okay. That was, that was, that was, I have no, I have no beef with that song.

But if, given the wild, the wild card aspect of Diane Warren being involved with the one, all things being equal, I'm going to, I'm going to pull for the Diane Warren one. save us the next, you know, however many years it's going to take for her to win. Though I don't think it's unreasonable to guess that she would win this year. This year meaning 2021. Up against a lot. I mean, like, there's a lot of, you know, famous names in there. Kind of splitting some votes. There are, I would, I would agree with you if it was a song, if it was a year, like last year,

where the only really notable song that stood out was Hussivik and Hussivik. Lusivik was sadly never going to win, even though it deserved. That was up against four really kind of like, I dare you to remember a single line or lyric or bar from any one of those songs. All apologies to her, but like, snoozerama. Ladies and gentlemen, her. But like this year, I think because you have, like, Enkanto being such a big hit, and I know it nominated the song. Right. I mean, I ultimately think it's in Kanto.

I just don't think, you know. Right. Don't just write out Diane Warren this year. I don't know. Between Enkanto and No Time to Die, now that we're in our bond, and we'll talk about that in a second when we talk about 2015, we're in our Bond era in Best Original Song. Like, I think Diane's going to have to chug along till next year.

I ultimately don't think we're in a Bond era, even though, like, there's two Bond song wins, but, like, Skyfall was never not going to win, and it was, like, such a huge song. And, like, Skyfall being a huge song is the reason why Specter ultimately wins in 2015, especially when it's like, it's not a great lineup. And, like, this is maybe one that people recognize and have heard, even though it's horrendous. I'm not sure you're not making my case for me, though, as to why no time did I could win. I don't think no time did I will win.

I do think it's going to be in Canto, but I think No Time to Die is a strong second place. I like that song. I, again, I couldn't tell you a single line from that song. I mean, one of my imagines is no time to die. We've been listening to that song for, what, three years now? Yeah, it also doesn't feel like the freshest nominee. Yeah, I think Enconto's going to win. Plus, it's Lynn's egot, and that'll be great.

And a year where he deserves his egot. Like, he had such a strong year across the board in terms of all of the movies that he had a hand in, that, like, that to me makes, like, you know, bigger picture sense that this is the year that he gets to see God. So good for him. If Billy Eilish wins, then I am absolutely wrong and we are living in a James Bond era of, you know, but I don't think that's the case. Right. All right. Anyway, 2015, we mentioned Spector, writings on the wall, wins for Sam Smith, the very first openly gay Oscar winner of all time. 50 Shades of Gray earned it. You mentioned the hunting ground till it happens to you. You mentioned.

We also had nominations for the, this was in the J. Ralph era of J. Ralph writing songs for documentaries that weren't even nominated for best documentary, and yet it gets a best song nomination. What an oddly specific era. And this wasn't even the last one. That was his second of three in a span of five years to go that way. Nomination for chasing ice. And then in 2015, it was racing. extinction. And then in 2016, it was Jim the James Foley story. Truly, J. Ralph was living sugar cane style. And then the fifth nominee, which can get right out of here, as far as I'm concerned, was simple song number three from youth, which go actually fuck yourself. Like, honestly, what are we doing? What are we doing here? You tell me Danny Collins, hey, baby doll, couldn't have bested that song? Get the hell out of here. I mean, the thing is, I would have, of course, those song nominations, like the J. Ralph

nomination, make people just, like, roll their eyes when it happened. I would have loved a Danny Collins nomination because people would just be like, what? And then, you know, Al Pacino shows up to perform on the Oscars. This is what I'm saying. Opening the ceremony with, Hey, Baby, Doll, why not? You could have gotten Al Pacino on stage to sing a Neil Dine. diamond-esque bop. Fuck you for not having that happen, Oscar voters.

Like, fuck you forever. Hate you so much. It deserved. Of those nominees, it would have been my absolute runaway favorite. I would have been able to be so obnoxious about being like, you know, it deserves to win is the Danny Collins song. And everybody would have looked at me sideways. But I would have been right, and history would have proven me correct.

It would have been a better winner than writings on the wall. Let's just say that. Definitely. What is the line you always say about writings on the wall, what it sounds like? It always makes me laugh, and now I can't think of it. I always feel like it sounds like, you know, dying dolphins or something like that. Yeah, this is sort of, this is the thing. Anyway.

All right. Danny Collins, based on a thing that actually happened, which was a singer by the name of, and give me a second while I find his name, because it, Steve Tilston, who I've never heard of before. But apparently, in 1971, John Lennon and Yoko Ono wrote a letter to this guy, who was an English sort of folk singer, and that letter was not found until 20, let's see, 34 years, let me do some quick math, 2005, I guess. 34 years, that letter remained unknown to this guy, finally finds that, of course, John is long, by that point. The letter signed by, interestingly in real life, the letter was signed by John and Yoko together. So this movie is Yoko Eurasia, which you know I don't stand for. But essentially

saying sort of similar sentiments to this is just like money doesn't change your life the way you think it does. Essentially just sort of like sort of what it's saying in the movie, which is just like keep your integrity and yada, yada, yada. And what I find especially fascinating, about this is that this doesn't get uncovered until the 2000s. And yet, there had been a Simpsons episode where Marge Simpson finds a response or gets a response to a long-ago fan letter that she wrote Ringo Star. Do you remember this one? No. It's the one where Marge, it's maybe in like season four or five or something like that, where Marge had

written a fan letter to Ringo Star and had gotten a long. lost in the shuffle. He finally finds it years and years later and writes a response being like she had sent him a piece of art that she painted. And he's like, keep it up with the art and whatever. And that inspires her to go back into painting or whatever for an episode. And I was like, even in actual real, like the Simpsons did it phenomenon truly is unbeatable because from the grave, John Lennon managed to prove Simpsons did it right. Because this thing actually has happened and it's like it's so similar to that anyway um it's the it's the inspiration then for this movie danny collins where uh this singer is not this like folk singer but he's sort of again a neil diamond

type who and neil diamond's career is actually really interesting i wish i had had more time to kind of really delve into that because he's one of those guys like neil diamond performed at the concert that was filmed for the last waltz like the the band's concert alongside, like, Neil Young and Joni Mitchell and all of these sort of, like, you know, serious, like, great, like, important artists from the late 60s, early 70s. And there's, like, Neil Diamond, who's, like, kind of a rad. Like, Neil Diamond's songbook is, I would say, like, A, it's a all-time karaoke fave of mine to delve into the Neil Diamond songbook. Don't worry, Chris, I don't sing Sweet Caroline. That song is played out.

Good, good. I would leave. I understand. I know. I know enough. I will sing America, though, his song from the jazz singer, because that is a jam. But he's one of those people who's just sort of like real respect always eluded him, even though he was always kind of in this greater general group of popular singers. And so it's an interesting type of singer. It keeps this movie, I think, from becoming to self-serious. going down the road of like, and again, we mentioned a Star is Born earlier, and I like a Star is Born a lot, but there's that template of like great musician brought down by his demons or whatever. And this one is a little bit more lighthearted than that. I think because you have this guy who's like, his career is, you know, making, you know, 60-something old ladies, you know, come to the club or whatever. Well, and he's not, he's not like playing arenas. He

sells out the Greek at the beginning of this movie, which, back to his star. is born um because they filmed that at the greek right no i think you're right i think you're right i can't i can't swear to it but uh it has the it has the general taste and mouth feel of being right and you know what that's uh that's good enough for me it's the shallow stage yes yeah i think that's right i don't know i don't know i don't know l a i don't know i know i know the grove i know the warner brother studio tour that's about it like that's that's that's That's basically it. I need to go to L.A. with you just to go to the grove.

That would be like, you know, I feel like seeing you at the Grove is like seeing a Disney gay at Disney World. Like, we'll get a Wetzel's Pretzels. We'll, you know, walk around. I mean, this is the thing. There's really not a ton to do there. This is my, this is why it's my happy place. There's not really a lot to do.

You can just sort of sit and imagine yourself in a life that is not your own. And truly, that's all the vacation that I need. So that's fine. So, yeah, I think this movie doesn't sort of wallow in, like, even when he backslides and he sort of does Coke backstage with his former fiancé or whatever. Which is like just the perfunctory thing that it's like you need one more bit of conflict for the movie to like, you know, hit a running time. It really, truly, the movie very kindly. If it's, this movie knows that, like, if it's going to go into cliches and it's going to sort of follow this very sort of well-trod path through these familiar beats, it's not going to make you linger for too long in the parts where you know we just have to get past this, right? We just have to get past this point.

It doesn't take itself too seriously or, like, try to be more than it is. And yet, it also doesn't, it doesn't take itself too unseriously. either. Like, it hits a really actually interestingly sweet, an interesting sweet spot where I mentioned that Jennifer Garner's first scene, I think, hits a really good note, where

it's, there's some sort of like sardonic humor to it, but it's not silly, and she's playing it, I think, exactly right. She's trying to be, there was not a small amount of Rosemary DeWitt's character from Marguerette that I thought

of, where it's just like, she doesn't have a problem with this guy, but on behalf of her husband, she does. She knows that this is the father who abandoned her husband. She cannot help but find him a little charming, but she knows that she can't give him that because they're in a sort of a principled war against each other, right? And she's chosen the other side. And she, that first scene where she says, like, you should be ashamed of yourself. And she's like, you actually lost out, because I'm I'm a really great daughter-in-law. And I just love that whole scene.

And that scene, and then the plumber scene at the end of the movie, where he shows up and sort of tells Connavali about how Danny had helped put him into rehab when he really needed, when he sort of, like, hit the bottle and hit rock bottom. And, you know, Danny, who was, you know, probably drunker than he was, like, drove him to a rehab. And then every year, is it every year or every month, I can't remember, like, sends him a crate of water bottles. And it's just like, drink up, drink. Wherever he is in the world. Wherever he is in the world. And it's one of those things where it's like, so many movies stumble with the, this guy's a fuck up, but we really like him anyway.

And so many movies feel like they are telling you something that you don't ultimately want to listen to when they're telling you that, right? Right. Like, find this guy charming. Find this guy redeemable. And this movie manages to thread that needle. And I think that scene really helps. land it, where the movie really has to get to a point where

Conavale, with all that's going on in his life, his wife's going to have a baby, he's maybe dying, his other child has, like, special needs, and he's got this sort of faithless father trying to worm his way back into his life. We, as the audience, have to understand why he ultimately would want to let him back into his life, and I think that plumber scene, you know, sells it well. The more I talk about this movie, the more I'm just like, it does a that a lot of other movies really can't do

or fuck up. Well, I think part of the reason it does that is like, Danny doesn't really fuck up that much. He's just like a drunk rock star. Like, we get the... I mean, like, I feel like this movie's a little afraid of making him

a little thornier, you know? That's possible. Yeah. Like, we get the detail that, you know, his son's mother didn't want Danny or, around too so it's like it wasn't necessarily like just danny's choice to abandon his child which isn't you know insignificant right but like but we also don't necessarily get the idea that it was abandonment like he knows where he is like he right and like it was made clear to him to like not

be around so it's like but you know well and the movie also makes the smart decision to not have connovali be too pissy about it either. Right. Like it manages to modulate that really well. It makes me think of a movie like, weirdly enough, War of the Worlds, the Tom Cruise War of the Worlds, where he's playing a similar character. And with

a similar story problem that I find in a lot of these movies, which is, by the time the movie starts, this guy's already abandoned his kid. Or like, been a more derelict father than he should be, right? And as an audience, we didn't see any of that. So we just see a movie star

that we love, Tom Cruise, Al Pacino, right? So we're, like, already on this guy's side. And the movie has to then take this child character and make you understand, because, like, logically, you, the kid wouldn't want this guy back because, like, fuck this guy. And in Danny Collins, I think it, again, threads the needle with the Connavalli character where, like, he's stubborn about it. He does not want Pacino back into his life. but he sort of allows himself to be

steamrolled by the force of this guy's personality which is like kind of this like force of nature thing whereas in something like War of the World spiel and you know I like parts of that movie but I think one of the things that everybody hates about that movie is the teenage son and I think part of it is and a lot of that sort of shit fell on the actor which I kind of felt bad for it because it was like

this was this was doomed from the start from the page though because it's like you know you're not going to make this kid who is big picture you know in the right about this but in terms of what we're seeing we're never going to sympathize with him because he's being a brat to Tom Cruise

who we all love so it's like I don't know once again like Danny Collins manages to like be the gallant to other films goofus I guess anyway but I interrupted you well no I mean like you kind of brought some of this up in your

plot description in that the because you said you just said bobby kind of allie doesn't get to be too much of a jerk about it and like the one time where he like puts his foot down is like no absolutely not is the two scenes where there's conflict towards the end because they walk backstage and uh danny has done some coke because the nerves of you know trying out his new song for his audience which he chickens out of doing right and like immediately it's just like no you're doing this is in front of your granddaughter and your blah, blah, blah, blah. He wasn't really doing it in front of his granddaughter. You maybe just don't bring that child backstage at a bar. Well, I don't know. I was sort of on Connevella side in that scene, where it's just like we had gotten to the point where there was no real reason to think

like he was going to be like blowing lines backstage after his like, again, just like, you know, he had been sort of this worked so hard to be this benign. sort of grandfatherly figure. So it's just, it's more functional to the story. Yes. Yes. Organic, I guess. I don't know. Or like, even like reasonable because he's getting drunk off his ass the whole time during this. Like maybe not when he's caring for his son and trying

to feed him like ramen while he's, you know, suffering from chemo. But, and like also the Bobby Canavala one is the one who like, essentially kind of lies like doesn't tell his wife that he's sick or whatever Oh there are complicated Like these are more complicated characters Than I think a lesser movie would give us

I also think it's notable That we don't get the big Pacino breakdown scene Like we don't get a moment where he like Falls to his knees and cries and sort of atones for everything He like he comes around But he comes around In this sort of very particular

style very particular to this character, which I also really liked. Damn, I really liked Danny Collins. It's so weird. It's just like, it's so strange. I can't wait to after this movie. This is where we should maybe talk about Pacino, because, like, again, I would just underline that, like, part of the reason why this movie is enjoyable and works is that Al Pacino is really good, and, like, Al Pacino does walk that kind of line that you're

talking about in terms of, you know, being actively charming and not, like, charming because the script says he is. Right. No, it's a charisma performance that also feels like it's a charisma performance from an actor who knows what he's doing. And it doesn't really get to play in that register that much. I do actually think he's playing somewhat in this register in House of Gucci, which is why I like him in House of Gucci. And once upon a time in Hollywood, as briefly as it was. Like, I think we're back into a really good era of Pacino.

I also really liked him in House of Gucci, actually. He's really funny in the Irishman, too. I mean, whatever. But, like, we're in a good... We have kind of come out of a period of darkness, and Danny Collins sort of falls in the late middle of that period of darkness. It's actually sort of... You could read it as, and maybe we will be the ones

to start turning the ship around, perceptively speaking. You could read Danny Collins as the first film of the new good Pacino era coming out of a really rough one. So I want to sort of page our way through the Pacino filmography for a second. I want to start right after Heat, because I feel like heat feels like the culmination of Oscar-winning early 90s Pacino, where he was still sort of like really bringing the heat. We talked about Carlito's way. We talked about Frankie and Johnny.

And I feel like once heat happens, that feels like the apex of everybody had been waiting for Pacino De Niro to happen. And then it happens. And so there's a little bit of a like post-heat hangover where like the vibe is still kind of there. City Hall, Donnie Brasco. These are, you know, movies that still sort of feel like within that vibe. I know people really, really loved Donnie Brasco and especially him in it. Devil's Advocate is trash and I love it. It's trash, and I love it, and he is amazing in it.

Like, that's one of those performances that is just like, well, only Pacino could have done it. And I wouldn't have wanted... Don't make him take his devil horns off. He's Al Pacino. It's one of those performances, then it's like, I wouldn't have wanted the better version of this performance because the, the quote-unquote, bad version of it, the over-the-top insanely, like, yelling and the line readings are just off the time. charts. That's the thing that I love the most about that movie and would have would not have wanted it any other way.

99, he does The Insider, which he he's the lead of the insider, but he gets completely overshadowed by Russell Crow. And Crow gets the Oscar nomination. Plummer, interestingly enough, Danny Collins, an insider reunion between Al Pacino and

Christopher Plummer. Plummer should have been nominated for the Oscar. Probably should have won. Absolutely. It was amazing. in that movie as Mike Wallace and we were all living God, my second Sugarcane reference in this entire episode. Girl, that documentary

Mike Wallace is here? Only because of you do I think of sugar cane when I think of Mike Wallace, you freaking psycho. Because... Girl, Mike Wallace is here and I am living for it. You tweeted that the one day

and I just, I lost my fucking mind. You're an absolutely insane person. And then any given Sunday that same year, the Oliver Stone movie, which is a very forgotten. I've only seen it once and hated it. Yeah, that did not go over well. And that was another one where he's sort of,

you start to see more and more him falling into these like, and she's got a great ass like that line from heat. Like that kind of register comes around more and more. Although, as I sort of page through, insomnia 2002 is it, you know, is actively sort of moving against that. It's very low-key Puccino. He's very, I think he's very good in that. I think kind of everybody is very good in that.

Underrated Christopher Nolan movie, Insomnia. I've not seen Simone. Have you seen Simone? Of course I've seen Simone. It's a disaster. Is he particularly bad in it? I mean, everything is particularly bad in Simone. Poor Andrew Nicol.

Oh, man, we got a, maybe when we whenever we hang out again. I'm making you watch Samoa. Oh, God. All right. Okay. And I think then we move into this era where he keeps getting cast in these sort of would-be pot-boiler,

mid-level adult action dramas that pair him often with other big co-stars. So, like, the recruit in 2003 with Colin Farrell, which also gets wrapped up in an odd little, era for Colin Farrell, where they're still trying to figure out what to do with him. That movie doesn't really register, ultimately. He's in a small role in Gile, sort of the paying Martin Brest back for the Oscar, I guess, showing up in, and Gile's a disaster, and it doesn't really fall on Pacino because it's too

busy falling on Ben and J-Lo. Merchant of Venice felt like a kind of a wannabe Oscar play that never really caught traction. Right. We could do that for the podcast. It didn't get it like a costume nomination or something, did it? I don't think so. I don't think it did.

Correct me if I'm wrong. Two for the money, which I totally had absolutely completely forgotten. That's McConaughey. Yeah, Pacino, McConaughey. directed by DJ Caruso, the Disturbia guy. Sure. You can't skip over Angels in America, though. Oh, that's true. I'm only going through the films. That's true.

2003, he's in Angels in America. I remember, interestingly enough, at the time, I think the tenor of reviews, sort of, a lot of them delved into, like, who in the cast is doing better than others. And a lot of the reviews kind of focused on this thing that, like, the lesser, like, the big stars were going big, and the Lesser-known stars were the real show there, where it was like Justin Kirk, Jeffrey Wright,

Mary Louise Parker were the performances that people kept talking about. And, like, Pacino, more so, like, Merrill got her, you know, her laurels. And obviously, they all won Emmys. Puccino and Merrill and Jeffrey Wright and Mary Louise all won Emmys. And, but anyway, where was I going with this? Oh, but a lot of the reviews kind of slighted Pacino as going too big as Roy Cohn, two over the top, to which I say, A, every other performance I've seen of Angels in America

has had a Roy Cohn that's gone actually bigger, and he's so good in it. The scene, which I will watch on its own, just when I'm, you know, needing a little bit of, like, pep to my step is the scene where it's him and Patrick Wilson, and it's the, you want to make the law or subject to it. You want to be nice or you want to be effective, that scene. That sweet, unprepossessing woman, two kids, boo-hoo-hoo, reminded us all of our little Jewish mamas.

She came this close to getting life. I pleaded till I wept to put her in the chair. Me, I did that. I'd have fucking pulled a switch myself if they let me. Why? Because I fucking hate traitors. Because I fucking hate communists. Was it legal?

I'm not legal. Am I a nice man? Fuck nice. They say terrible things about me in the nation. Fuck the nation. You want to be nice or you want to be effective? You want to make the law or subject to it. Choose. Your wife chose. Which fucking rules. And it's like he's literally slobbering in that scene, but I don't give a fuck. He's so good in that miniseries. I don't know. I find him tremendous. What did you think of him in Angels and America. Oh, he's amazing. And nobody is not doing a good job in Angels and America. The person that I always feel like gets the raw deal, and it's partly just the character, is Ben Shankman. 100%. He's phenomenal in that.

It's so, it's one of those things where it's a crime that you could only give out one supporting actor award for that, because, like, you could have given four, right? Was he the one that wasn't Emmy nominated? I'm going to look at this really fast. I think ultimately they were all Emmy nominated, but I think he was the one who was maybe left out of the Globes or something.

He was definitely like the odd man out. I think Justin Kirk was the one that was left out of the Globes. Let me look at this. Oh, you could be right. The Globes also might have slotted Justin Kirk in as a lead, and he didn't get nominated as a lead, which he is, you know. No, the Emmy's nominated everyone, it looks like. Yeah.

The weird thing is they have Justin Kirk as supporting. Right. And, and, and he ultimately, I mean, he would have been toast up to, up against Pacino anyway. I think Kirk is the one I would have given the Emmy 2 in lead over Pacino, even though I did love Pacino, but like, Justin Kirk's phenomenal on that. But like, Jeffrey Wright. Yeah, the Globes didn't nominate Justin Kirk. Yeah. I have a feeling, because you know how the Golden Globes sort of make their own decisions as to who's lead and who's supporting. That's why they put Rooney Marr. and Alicia Vakander in lead that year for when they were both in supporting. The other thing about supporting at the Globes

is they combine all of the comedy miniseries. All of television, right. But yeah, Justin Kirk's phenomenal in that. But also, like, Jeffrey Wright richly deserved an Emmy for that as well. So, like, you know, Emmys for all as far as I was concerned in that. But yes, thank you for bringing that up. I was going through just his film film film. um 2007 he makes a movie called 88 minutes i dare you to say one thing about 88 minutes what i can't

even remember the poster for 88 minutes what is this i'll tell you what it's 110 minutes long as a movie so like it is it is false advertising it is a that movie is lies the supporting cast for this movie is what so it's pachino and then it's elisha whit lily sobieski amy brannerman deborra kara unger it's Like, a very particular strata of actresses who like sort of, and again, Keat and Reunion, Pacino, Amy Brennaman, a particular strata of, I don't know, like actresses who were just like who were never going to get any kind of billing. So it really is just like Pacino and everybody else. He's like the only really star in that movie. Again, it seems like it's a cop movie. certainly on the poster

with him in a dark suit holding a gun certainly looks like he's a cop Anyway He's also went Oceans 13 in 2011 Which Underrated Oceans movie I gotta try it again

I did not I was not feeling it Think that 13 is just like Kind of boring and by the numbers I thought it was really great All right I'll try it again I think it's a lot of fun 2008 another John Avinet movie

John Avonet had directed 88 minutes, and then comes back again to direct Righteous Kill, which is another Pacino De Niro movie that does not get nearly the fanfare that he did for good reason. He's another cop in that. He's in, okay, I have not seen The Son of No One, which is the Dido Montiel movie from 2011, which would make it after Guide to Recognizing Your Saints? Interesting. Is it? I can't, all right.

I don't know. Guy to recognize, yes, guy to recognize your Saints is 2006, fighting is 2009, and then Son of No One is 2011. The poster for Son of No One, I'm only saying, it's a Channing Tatum movie

where he plays a cop. But it's only notable. A movie seen by No One. Well, yeah. But the credits line goes, Channing Tatum, Tracy Morgan, Katie Holmes,

Ray Leota, with Juliet Benosh, and Al Pacino. This is very Drew Drogy, Chloe. For the ages, right there. Like, that is a credit block for the ages. All right. He's also played Jack Kovorkian on HBO,

and you don't know Jack, which, like, Angels in America kind of ushers in this era of the, like, finger quotes good, because I haven't seen any of it. I can't really speak to it. But he's, like, going and doing HBO movies, and then a bunch of these like shitty cop movies.

Well, right, and it's not just HBO movies. It is a cavalcade of HBO movies where he's playing notorious real-life figures. So he's literally, he goes from playing Roy Cohn and Angels in America, which like, Angels in America does not deserve to be roped in with all these other ones, but just on the fact that he's

playing a real-life son of a bitch, Roy Cone. Then he goes to play Dr. Jack Kovorkian and you don't know Jack in 2010, Phil Spector in Phil Spector, 2013, and then Joe Paterno in Paterno, 2018. And two of those are directed by Barry Levinson. Phil Spector is directed by David Mamet. So it's like these are TV biopics with some real Hollywood heft behind them, right?

But it's Maya Rudolph, to what end, right? To those ones, just like, what are we doing here? Why are we doing this? what's going on. I don't understand. And he got Emmy nominated for, I want to say, all of them, if not, like, three out of four. But I don't know, man. I just don't know. 2011, he plays himself in Jack and Jill. It's a Dunkicino. We all, we all love it. We all have watched it.

I have not watched Jack and Jill. No, but you've seen the Dunkicino portion. Sure, sure, sure, sure. That's what I mean that we've all watched. Yes. No, you're fine if you haven't watched Jack and Jill, but just like, seek out the Dunkinino part. It's unhinged and a credit to society as far as I'm concerned. Then, of course, the great stand-up guys, Oscar-winning movie, if the Oscars were only handed out by my dad. Okay, what is the Salome Wild Salome, like, feel? He filmed it with it. Jessica Chastain, but it was also on the stage, I believe. I haven't

actually seen it. It had sat around for a while and then didn't get released until, like, Jessica Chastain has multiple Oscar nominations. So, because, like, Wild Salome is one of those movies. It was written and directed by Pacino, uh, and then he started, that was part of the

whenever, you only ever heard about it when people talked about Jessica Chastain's insane 2011, where it was like, it was the movies that everybody at least saw or heard about, which was Tree of Life and Take Shelter

and oh, what were the other one? Texas Killingfields was a movie that like, again, sort of like Wild Salomey, like nobody saw Texas killing fields, but it sort of got roped into Jessica Chastain being in a dozen movies

that are released in a year. Right, exactly. And so why is it so hard to find Jessica Chastain's filmography? on her Wikipedia page. Wikipedia's got to fucking get shit together. I'm sorry. Just like standardize this shit

because I shouldn't have to... Just so you can find a list. Exactly. All I come to this thing for is a list. All right, whatever. We come to this place for lists. We come to this place for Jessica Chastain's filmography.

And then so Salome in 2013 is Pacino directing a follow-up movie that is a quasi-fictional quasi-documentary companion piece to Wild Salomey? I don't know. I genuinely

I've seen neither, so I really shouldn't speak on either one of them. But anyway, and then ultimately, 2014, 2014 is my first ever TIF. And I am making my decisions. I'm also not

press accredited fully, so I'm making like, I'm buying public tickets and I don't know what I'm doing. I generally, this was my first pancake of a TIF. So I really was, you know, feeling my way around. And ultimately, I made the bad decisions to see both the Humbling and Mangalhorn, both of the Al Pacino movies, that were at Tiff that year. The Humbling, directed by Barry Levinson, again, another Pacino Levinson movie that is Pacino and Greta Gerwig as a, like, romantic pair. And, and, you know,

And it's so bad. It's just really, really bad. And then Mangalhorn got a little bit of, maybe a claim. Mangalhorn had played Venice that same year. And it was David Gordon Green. And it was Pacino and Holly Hunter. The list of David Gordon Green movies that are not real movies,

but have played Venice, are wild. Yeah, it's true. David Gordon Green, a really odd filmography, and that, like, some of the ones that don't exist, I actually really like, some of the ones that do exist, I don't. It's like, and there's no rhyme or reason to what David

Gordon Green's I like and what I don't. It's really strange. But Mangalhorn is one of those movies that, like, if you squint hard enough, it's a good movie, but mostly it's just kind of long and unengaging. I say long. It's 97 minutes. It felt very long, even though it is not. It's a long 97. So those two movies kind of lead us up to Danny Collins.

So it had been a desert of a career period for Pacino. I think in terms of... This was when you sort of... You looked at Al Pacino's presence in a movie, and you no longer felt like that made it a must-see movie. Again, mistakes I had made it to, if notwithstanding. So Danny Collins comes around, and the fact that it got completely kind of brushed aside and nobody really anticipated it and nobody felt like they really needed to see it, that was kind of the result of, you know, a good 15 years, if not longer, of really spotty career decisions in terms of feature films at the very least. Oh, yeah.

And so nobody saw it, and nobody really paid attention to it. And it's up to us now, seven years later, to ring the bell for this. I'm just going to say unimpeachable classic. No, I don't know. I feel like as this podcast goes along, I'm like Nobel Peace Prize winner to Danny Collins. But, uh, Guggenheim Grant recipient, Danny Collins. Exactly. Exactly.

Uh, statue of Danny Collins in New York Harbor. Okay. Um, that would actually. actually be kind of a rad statue. His shirt would be like unbuttoned all the way and, uh, and his like crucifix pendant kind of dangling. If you're going to have a statue of Danny Collins, like, it, it's obviously like, you know, whatever you make statues out of steel. I don't know. I'm not an engineer. But like, there has to be a fabric component. Like his open shirt has to be blowing in the wind. Right. Yes. I agree. I agree with that. Um, you've mentioned the, the sort of perfunctory

nature of the romance with Annette Benning. And yet, I also think Annette Benning's charming in this movie, sort of irrespective of how strong I find that storyline. Jordan Hoffman is absolutely right that she is playing a Diane Keaton character, giving a Diane Keaton

performance. They do her so dirty by giving her the most quintessential, like, Hilton in New Jersey manager haircut that, like, doesn't look like a wig. So I think they cut her hair to look like that. that's her commitment to the role christopher it's her commitment to the craft and obviously dan fulgerman liked working with her enough that he decided to hit her with a bus and uh this is my question what what what does dan fogleman have on annette benning did he find her hillary swank voodoo doll what what what what happened here maybe she just likes working with him i don't know i mean again he doesn't seem like beelzebub or anything like that i know i know

he's sort of, he's become a punchline. And, like, life itself is powerful bad. Like, trust me. Of his directorial efforts, Danny Collins is the good one and life itself is the horrible one. We may end up talking about that more in a future. Yes, yes. Can we talk about this hotel, though, since we're now talking about the Charming and at Benning as the hotel manager. platonic ideal of a Hilton that exists at the like far end of an office park or something like that. You can easily sort of picture exactly like where, like, off of a highway off ramp that like nobody really takes unless they work at like, you know, Viridian dynamics or whatever. You know what I mean?

It's just like, there's no... Danny Collins is not, not 40% a Hilton commercial. This movie should be available free to all Hilton honors members. It's a movie that tells you that the Hilton hotels are accommodating enough that they will install a Steinway piano in your hotel suite, even though I don't know how that. As we learn later, it takes several hours to get it in there. I mean, I'm surprised it, you could do it at all, like getting a piano in and out of a hotel room. Like, that just feels impractical. and yet they're so accommodating

and the staff is so nice and you can play kindly matchmaker to the fresh-faced valet and also check-in girl Josh Pack and Melissa Benoist in this movie I was going to say it's the

the finer details of this movie are in all of the Hilton sequences because who works at a Hilton in New Jersey in the end of a car park Josh Pack and Melissa Benoise perfectly cast to be those people

it seemed for a second like they were setting up a kind of Diego Luna and Zoe Saldana in the terminal kind of thing that we were going to have to sort of watch Danny sort of shepherd their little romance and we'd maybe get a little like

complication in there and they'd have to find their way back to each other whatever and the movie ultimately is like we're just going to like set up this idea that these two are cute and kind of flirty with each other and then like Danny gets more bonus points from us because it's like, you know what? That's Danny's doing.

Like, where, and Danny gives away his car to Josh Peck. Could not tell you what the character name is. He's Josh Peck. Yeah. But also, the movie kind of just sort of like, their storyline is a paper sailboat, and it kind of just, like, kicks it off into the lake and lets it sort of go on its own path.

And, like, you don't really need to, like, figure out more about it. Again, the movie's just like, you know, like, et cetera, et cetera. You know, they're cute, and they'll probably, you know, date and whatever, but we don't really need. to pay a ton of attention to it because it's not the point of the movie and the romance between him and benning though is so like perfunctory like there was a script note of like there should be a romance in here or like he needs somebody to like talk to about like the lenin letter which like

really is not much of the movie and like he performs his song for her he's trying to get her to go to dinner with him and like and yet though the scenes of the two of them sort of at the hotel bar kind of bantering back and forth with each other i was charmed yeah i was charmed i loved that um she kind of was put off by his celebrity and like outright like i don't like your music right right it was cute i liked it um and yet also she's not totally this like uh total like frigid cliche kind of like you know can't can't open up and like she's she she seems like an actual person it doesn't seem like there's she doesn't have this like oh well my husband left me and i haven't you know allowed myself to love since or anything like that it just seems it relaxed

i think so much of this movie rides on being a more relaxed version of lesser movies right right Fogelman's filmography, I want to sort of not to the degree that we went into Pacino, but it's a real collection of just sort of middle of the road stuff, right? Where, like, I haven't really

seen all of it. Cars is obviously like the Pixar movie that nobody likes. But, like, Bolt and Tangled, both of movies, which, and, like, Cars, he was one of, like, 20 screenwriters or whatever, so, like, I don't know how much we can blame Cars on him. But, like, he's the screenwriter

credit screen right around both bolt and Tangled, both of which movies seemed like got received on degrees of, like, good to fine. And I know some people who actually kind of ride for Tangled, and like... Tangled is fun. He also

writes the script for Fred Claus, a movie that I have not seen, but also, like, I don't know too many people who love Fred Claus, although the cast of that movie is way better than it deserves. Like, that movie stars Vince Vaughn as Fred Claus Paul Giamatti as Santa

Also stars Rachel Weiss Miranda Richardson Kathy Bates Elizabeth Banks John Michael Higgins Ludacris Kevin Spacey Which like whatever

But like Kevin Space is the two-time Oscar winner and he's like ninth lead in Fred Claus It's so weird What an odd What an odd thing Basically what we're saying is Dan Fogelman got his start

Writing Movies for Chill and seemingly little has changed. Because, like, crazy, stupid love, like, none of these people are grown-ups. No. Like, none of these people behave, like, functioning adults. He did write The Guilt Trip. How do you feel about the guilt trip? I need to see it, and I would love for us to do the guilt trip sometime.

We should. We should. We talk about Barbara. We have precious few excuses to get to talk about Barbara, and we should take all of the ones we can get. I mean, we did nuts, but that was a while we did. No. We had a great talk. I'm talking about nuts. I loved that.

We talked about Last Vegas as the stand-up guys that isn't stand-up guys, which is, again, four old people. Stand-up guys, but in Vegas. A genre as bullet. But I think stand-up guys is also in Vegas. I could be wrong. Is it in, like, shitty Vegas? Like, not the strip.

Maybe it's like Reno, right? The Reno version of it. I don't know. But stand-up guys, I should do a trivia round. Pretend I, all right. Somebody should hire one of us to talk about the, like, three or four old guys together cinematic universe. This is what I'm saying. Forget about this after I say it, but I should do a trivia round on movies that are four old guys in a movie and make people, like, have to, like, tell which are which, because I think that would be very fun.

It'd be like putting, it'd be like putting a jenga tower together or something. It's just sort of just like, I guess it's the wrong. Except it's like a jenga tower that, you know, you think. you've built the tower and then suddenly there's this other piece that's missing that like why you didn't even know this exists because like kevin fly where do i put kevin flying but there's a bunch of four old guy movies that's what i mean so all right all right again wipe this from your memory because i'm going to do it for trivia sometime um and then he hasn't uh after danny collins comes life itself and then since then he's been doing this is us on TV and he's on his Wikipedia

it says that he is a one of the writers on the upcoming Indiana Jones movie along with that movie's going to be so fucking cursed like listen all of the there are eight billion like cooks in this kitchen right where it's like James Mangold is writer writer director both of the Butterworths, both Jez and John Henry Butterworth are on that script. Fogelman's you know involved somehow.

It's, and obviously like then you've got Spielberg as a producer and obviously It's probably a Franken script that there have been multiple draft floating around and then they stitch them together. It's going to be horrible. Yeah. He also, I know there are people

who ride for that TV show Galavant that he did, the musical TV show Galavant I did not watch it, so I can't say anything about it. He also did that TV show when I worked at ABC very briefly called The Neighbors, which was Aliens Are Living Next Door. It was a really kind of pilloried concept, and it was sort of the butt of a bunch of jokes that, like, that upfronts where, like, Jimmy Kimmel kind of, like, ripped it apart. But I remember, again, as one of those ABC shows that I kind of watched passively while I worked

there. And I was like, this could be worse as a dumb sitcom. Like, I've seen dumber. I've seen worse. So that's my rave review for Dan Fogelman's The Neighbors. Well, we'll have multiple opportunities to talk about Dan Fogelman in the future. We sure will. Anyway, not the devil is my review of Dan Fulgman.

This withering praise. This person is not a war criminal. not right exactly um once again i don't know i really loved jennifer garner in this i just love when she's able to play in like there's not a whole lot of depth to this character she gets like one or two characteristics but she really she's able to sort of in a relaxed way make her feel real i don't know she plays these real no she plays these real people and like And like, you're not wrong to, like, mention it adjacent to Juno, or maybe that was me that did that. Juno, which she should have won an Oscar for.

I think we both. Because, like, she plays these kind of everyday people and makes interesting acting choices when she does. Yes. Granted, we have done men, women, and children on this podcast in which she does not achieve that. Is there something to the idea that she can. sometimes be better as a supporting player than as a lead. I know that's not universally true. I think she's

probably, there's an element to her where I don't know if this is fully true, but like some of the choices she makes that like I think we like and like we would be prone to praise make her seem like more of a character actress than she's really ever gotten to be. I mean, I don't know if

I would say Jennifer Garner character actress, you know. I'm a massive alias fan. So like I'm never going to fully write her off as a leading person and obviously something like she does really well with something like 13 going on 30 although that is a very particular flavor of lead like she's being I don't know I don't know how much that can translate to a whole lot of other things but yeah I don't think I would say character actress theater as Electra in Daredevil and then the Elektra movie probably ultimately was not good for her career as an actress

Like, aside from those movies being so poorly received, it's just, like, it got her pigeonholed in a way that, like, she was maybe never really going to excel at. And, like, part of Alias, which, like, I've never really watched, but, like, I know enough people who watch Alias and love Alias, that's, like, isn't part of the appeal for her there a certain level of mutability? Like, she's doing all these different disguises and, like, holding on to secrets. It is, except that the movie, the show, also very quickly makes her personal life as important as the spy stuff. So, like, her romantic relationship with Michael Vartan, and then, like, her relationship with Victor Garber as her dad. So, yes, there is an element of the fact that, like, her spy stuff required her to be,

you know, like, a chameleon in terms of attitude. but I don't know there's a lot too alias I love that show every six months I'm like I should do an alias rewatch and then I don't because I don't have time

to do anything but like I should yeah what else do we want to talk about okay can we talk about all right let's do the Golden Globes actually right now I do feel like he should have won the Golden Globe that year

now that I look at it he's nominated it against. Let's tick off the nominees for us. Okay, so Danny Collins at the Globes. This is 2015. Matt Damon wins for the Martian.

This is musical or comedy. This is the year that everybody makes their jokes about how the Martian isn't really a comedy, even though it's less of a fraud in comedy than other things that the Golden Globes have put in comedy. I also think if you're someone who's read the book and you like understand the movie

on like that level of what this lead character's like voice and, you know, perspective is you're less, you're less perturbed by that being called a comedy. Two performances from The Horrendous, the Big Short, Christian Bale, who would be nominated in supporting at the Oscars, also Steve Carell. And then the performance that I think gets lumped together with Danny Collins because people are like, this isn't a real movie, no one saw that movie, is Mark Ruffalo and infinitely polar bear,

which is not supposed to be very good from what I've heard, and neither is Ruffalo. Chris, how many times? How many times have you seen infinitely polar bear? How many times have you watched it? Seven?

Zero times. Eight? Is it like a Christmas tradition? I've watched it an infinite amount of times. This is what you're trying to say, yes. Zoe Seldon is in that movie. Interesting. All right.

His wife. Yeah. Interesting. Yes. So, yeah, sort of two, two nominations that year that were in the how is this a movie and of course that's also the same year that maggie smith is nominated for the lady in the van which was only surprising if you weren't paying attention to the fact that maggie smith had a movie called the lady in the van because if you

knew those facts and those facts alone you would know that she was almost certainly going to be nominated for that for gold globe absolutely well i think also the disparity is like this isn't necessarily the actor lineup would make you think that like oh probably a shitty comedy year but that's not the case it's just like this was a really strong year for like female led comedies right um train wreck that year spy that year grandma that year all nominated in comedy um what other comedies were that year that would have been better at uh can you give me half a second to just pull up a list um they nominated Paul Dano in supporting, uh, which I kind of, I wonder if they considered, yeah, for love and mercy, which I kind of wonder if they considered that a drama anyway, but like, I would say that's a lead performance. The leads of that movie are Elizabeth Banks and Paul Dano. Well, that's one of those bifurcated timelines, right? Where it's like, right? So, like,

you could, if you're trying to be shifty in a campaign, you could just go whatever route you think you're going to get it. And I understand why they thought they would have gotten Paul Dano, or more likely to get Paul Dano in supporting, but I think that's the lead performance. He could have been in that lineup and boosted it a little bit better. I'm sort of going through the movies of 2015, trying to pick out comedies.

I mean, Bridge of Spies is not a comedy, but Tom Hanks is cold throughout that entire movie. It's very funny. It's a nice recurring bit. We'll say that comedy bit. Got, some of the movies this year that we talked about, the walk was this year

Okay, I know that people were not People were not necessarily high on the intern I thought both De Niro and a half Oh yeah, they could have been Globe nominees

Were good in the intern Nancy Myers is the intern Filmed in my neighborhood as I was living there A movie that asks the eternal question What if Robert De Niro was a German shepherd Basically just like

not even a puppy he's just like an old like lovely kind dog that sits at your feet in that movie we've also talked about this year before in regards to the musical comedy categories i'm sure because we did an episode on ricky on the flash and i'm still surprised that maryl didn't get nominated for that considering she gets nominated at the globes all the time yeah um train wreck like i said schumer did get nominated for that and good for her um Sorry, we can just cut out some of this dead air. It's fine. It's fine. Well, obviously, Ted 2 was the comedy hit of that year, and we can all recognize that. I am glad Melissa McCarthy got nominated for Spy. She deserved it for that and also for The Heat, which I'll also always mention, is the Paul Feig, Melissa McCarthy movie that I like the best, even though Spy also rules. Like, no shade it all against that. I'm kind of surprised Pitch Perfect, too, didn't get anything because it was such a hit.

Like, it made so much money. That does seem something that, like, the Globes would have done, but, like, obviously they would have done it in actress, where, like, there had real, like, competition and contenders there. Right, right, right. Obviously, Paul Blart, Mall Cop, too, was robbed. We all know this. We all recognize this. kind of surprised that something like while we're young, Noah Bombach's

While We're Young, didn't show up because that was a well-reviewed sort of a tourist comedy. It came out early that year. Like that was sort of a thing that makes it, you know, not sort of globe-friendly. I mean, the Martian, I'm almost a little bit more surprised for just like how, you know, people try to shove things in campaigning and it's like, obviously, the Martian. is right there in the same year, but I'm a little surprised

they didn't try to do it with Steve Jobs. As a comedy? Yeah. It's not not a comedy. It's not a comedy. I mean, maybe I haven't seen it in a while, but like, it's sarkin, like almost any sorkan thing. Sure. It is a drama with comedic beats every once in a while, but it is, it is, it is, but like they could have, they could have, knowing that DiCaprio was going to be winning all season,

that could have been their play to get, you know. something for Spender. Ultimately, he would have been more likely to have beaten Matt Damon than he would have been to have beaten DeCaprio. Well, yes, I think that's definitely true. Also, I think we can all agree pursuant to last week's episode that we would have both nominated Eddie Redmayne for best comedic performance for Jupiter ascending and would have given him the win for that. Sure, sure, sure, sure. All right, all right. Anyway, back to the, back to the Globe nominees. Yeah, you really, you are, uh, the resident big short

hater of the two of us. I've had a weird... horribly made movie. I am not as stupid as Adam McKay thinks I am and neither is anyone else in the audience. No, I am.

I'm definitely... I am... When it comes to that stuff, I am a stupid as... I think it goes beyond like understanding those things. I think he thinks that people are fundamentally idiots.

Like, and you can't understand. stand, like, I don't know. I can't keep making the same argument over and over it. I guess the one other thing that Danny Collins got, it won the Alliance of Women Film Journalists Award for most egregious age difference between leading man and love interest for Al Pacino and Catarina Kaz, which, like, sure, but, I mean, like, the movie's also, like, making fun of that.

Well, the movie doesn't exactly endorse that pairing. Like, the movie is making the point about. that the women film journalists seem to also be making. I would also say Danny, like, learns that he is wrong. Right. It's not just the movie. It's also the character doesn't endorse it, you know? Right.

It's within the universe of the movie, the movie is also looking askance at that. So, like, what is, what's your problem? Like, I don't know. I feel like if you're going to have an award for most egregious age difference between the leading man and the love interest, it should at least be a leading man and love interest that are endorsed by the film. Right, right.

Whereas the other nominees are Spector for Daniel Craig and Leia Saddu, Irrational Man, Joaquin Phoenix, Emma Stone, I think the last said about that better. And then Freeheld, which is Julianne Moore and Elliot Page, but that is also a true story,

so it kind of feels like you're shitting on the real peep. And once again, if the whole point of this award, you are under no obligation to treat this as a real award, this is a, ultimately, this is a point in the guise of an award, right? You are making a point about a deficiency in Hollywood. So if you are making a point about how leading men and leading women are treated on unequal planes and we are given stories. with these odd age gaps, it seems dumb to throw freeheld in there as a kind of equal opportunity, whatever, when it's like, I don't know, find other targets. It's just, it's, it's deeply silly to me. I feel like I keep bringing up the Alliance of Women Film Journalists when I want to complain about something that they did. Well, they have fun categories.

It's fun to talk about fun categories. They do have fun categories, but they're also like frequently really stupid. And I don't know. they could have just given that win to a rational man like you know obviously it's not the biggest gap but like or even we know what we're doing like specter like specter at least is a big hit that is perpetuating the thing that you're annoyed by so like just give it to that and not like Danny Collins this movie that nobody saw anyway that is making the point that you are trying to make anyway I don't know silly silly so should we move on to the IMDB game let's oh Why don't I explain what the IMDB game is, though? Why don't I do that?

Every week we end our episodes with the IMDB game where we challenge each other with an actor or actress to try and guess the top four titles that IMDB says they're most known for. If any of those titles are television, voice-only performances, or non-acting credits, we mention that up front. After two wrong guesses, we get the remaining titles release years as a clue, and if that is not enough, it just becomes a free-for-all of hints. Hooray.

Would you like to give her guess first? I'll guess first. I say confidently. So my dirty secret, what I almost did in this episode, but I did not think that it would work, was do your twink actors quiz, but for fictional characters and make a quiz that was Danny Collins or Michael Collins. That would then become Danny Collins. But wait, it's not just fictional characters is going to be. Is it Danny Collins, Michael Collins? or is it Judy Collins?

Wow. And then I would trick you again and go back and say, is it Danny Collins, Michael Collins, uh, Joan Collins or did I say Judy Collins? I was going to do Joan Collins too. Uh, or was it Tom Collins? Like the drink or the rent character?

The rent character. Wow. But then maybe I could have also made a trick question and be like, that's actually the drink a Tom Collins. That's actually the alcoholic beverage. That I would have run you out of town. I think it would have The joke would have

Much like the rest of my jokes It would have run straight into the ground Within a few seconds So instead what I'm doing Is I pulled a different Collins for you For your IMDB choice I chose none other than Clifton Collins Jr. Oh boy

Okay Star of many many motion pictures There's no television Oh dear This is the thing is Clifton Collins Will show up as like the 10th lead in so many things well

one of them is probably Capote yes Capote he's actually quite good in Capote isn't it wild that like he got nothing for Capote it is kind of wild for us it's so funny interestingly

like this year that there was this odd drumbeat for like jockey Clifton Collins we've never awarded him for anything and I'm like we could have solved this problem 15 years ago and just nominated him for Capote, like we should have. But anyway. Exactly. All right. Traffic?

Traffic. Correct. All right. Here's where it gets crazy. It's probably wrong, but he is a lead in it, so I am going to guess Jockey. No, not Jockey. All right.

That's fine. It's not a bad guess because, like, I think the SEO of it would have given that movie a boost because he, like, won prizes for it. I think that's right. And no television, so Westworld is not on there. No television. I don't remember him on Westworld.

He's, um, he might not be in beyond the first season, but he's one of the people who lives in one of like the outposts. He's sort of a recurring, uh, kind of quote-unquote bad guy, you know? I never watched the third season and I only watch parts of the second season, so Westworld truly feels rooted in the past for me. Oh, Westworld is very much a pre-pandemic show. I know it aired its third season, early pandemic, but by that point, I was, I literally made the decision

where I was like, there's too much stresses. I have too many stressors in my life. I can't throw Westworld on top of that. So, yeah. I'm just trying to think of, like, what things I remember him in. Oh, maybe I'm thinking about somebody else. This is the other thing is, like, I don't want to confuse him with another character actor. Is he in Pacific Rim?

I'm trying to think if he's in. This won't count against you if he is not in Pacific Rim, but, like, he's in those type of action movies. Yes, he's in Pacific Rim. No, it's not on his known for. Okay. So you're getting your years. They're both 2009.

One of them we've maybe covered on this podcast, meaning we have covered it on this podcast. Where the wild things are? No. 2009 movies that we've covered on this podcast. And interestingly, the movie we have covered on this podcast is a remake, and you could call the other 2009 movie a remake of sorts. A remake of sorts.

What does that mean? The type of thing that, like, when, uh, when IP gets revisited. Like a reboot? Yes. A reboot in 2009. Star Trek. Star Trek, yes. Don't remember him in Star Trek.

He is like the lead reporting person to, um, Eric Banna. To Eric Banna. Oh, okay. He's a, he's a Romulan. Yeah. All right. Other 2009 movie that we've done. on. He's also played a lot of these type of characters, I feel like. The type that he plays in the movie that I haven't thought of. Yes.

If I give you his, like, profession or his role, I think it would give you the movie immediately. But I think you can get there on your own. What type is profession? So, like, a cop. He has played a lot of cops, I think, but not a cop. But you're not far off. off. A

Oh, like a military guy. Yes. Military movie in 2009. Obviously not the Herlocker. That we've covered. That we've covered. Not rendition. Bump, bum, bum, bump,

rendition. Not lions for lambs. not God. This has three major stars. Remember, it's a remake. Right. Remake of a war movie, an

09. Remake of a non-US war movie. I wouldn't call it a war movie, but there are military personnel. Oh, like a coming home from war movie. Yes. Oh, is it? brothers yes so funny mommy and uncle tommy have sex all the time uh he's he's he's got to be

toby mcguire's army buddy or whatever yes yeah i think he's his commander sure he billed as major major major cabavazos sure okay all right chris for you i'm going to do the thing that i sometimes do where i'm going to give you a choice i'm going to give you the Goldilocks choice of, do you want the hardest one, the easiest one, or the middleest one? Let's do the middleest one. All right. I've really embarrassed myself lately in IMDB games, but I'm not going to embarrass myself by just opt-in to the easiest choice. All right, all right.

It's a different type of embarrassing. I mentioned the suspiciously deep cast of Fred Clause written by Dan Fogel. and one of the actresses that we've never done on the IMDB game who is in Fred Clause is one Elizabeth Banks so give me the IMDB game

for Elizabeth Banks Is she acting in all of these? All of them are acting one is a voice performance Ooh No television also how many hunger games

are going to be in there the first hunger games for sure the first hunger games is there okay hmm I mean there's got to be a comedy in there

pitch perfect not pitch perfect okay I would have guessed that, too, because I think I would have thought, at the very least, her directing, she directs the second one, right? Yes. Yeah. I would have thought that would have, like, boosted the first pitch-per, but anyway, not pitch-proof. I feel like definitely maybe has shown up for a few people before, so I got to say definitely maybe.

It's a good impulse, because I think you're right that it has for other people, but it's not definitely maybe. All right. So now you have three guesses. Years for those are 2014, 2014, and 2014. Great. Okay. Well, there was a Hunger Games movie in 2014, so it's got to be that. Yes, Hunger Games Mocking Jay Part 1. Just because this is a weapon against me, is it one of the fucking Lego movies, is it one of the fucking Lego movies? the voice performance. The first Lego movie. The Lego movie.

Yes. So you got three of four. 2014. Elizabeth Banks. What else was she? Well... Oh, wait a second. I will tell you, it got released in the United States in 2015.

This is where I was going. Because love and mercy, I think... premiered at TIF in 2014 and then was released the next summer, if I remember correctly. So I'm going to say love and mercy. It is love and mercy. Very good. Fantastic. Good job.

Good work. Good working out. Elizabeth Banks. Where is her Danny Collins? It's true. She could be Daniel Collins. Did you watch Call Jane at Sundance this year? No, I heard bad things, so I avoided.

Oh, boy. Yeah. bad I heard I heard it was on my it was on my sort of long list before the festival and then the first piece the first sort of wave of reaction to it was pretty negative and I was like well maybe I'll wait it I mean like I'm down for this like tenor of performance with her I love her in love and mercy but like the movie's just not it yeah I liked her quite a bit in love and mercy actually as I recall but uh yeah yeah all righty I think that's our episode. I think it is too. Danny Collins. Best movie ever made?

Question. The final film we ever needed right now? Honor the man. Honor the film Danny Collins. Oh boy. I think we got it. I think we cracked it. Our leading crooner, Danny Collins. But that's our episode. If you want more of This Had Oscar Buzz, you can check out the Tumblr at this had oscarbuzz. Tumblr.com. You should also follow our Twitter account. it had underscore Oscar underscore buzz. Joe, please tell our listeners where they can find more of you. Well, you can find me crooning for ladies of a certain age on Twitter, I guess. I'm at Joe Reed, read spelled R-E-I-D. I'm also on letterboxed as Joe Reed, read-spelled R-E-I-D. And I am also on...

Wouldn't it be wild, Chris, if I spelled my name differently on both of those? Have I mused to that before? Just to fuck with people. Just to be R-E-I-D and one in R-I-E-D on the other one. That's your letterboxed alt. That's my all, yes. That's right. That's how you know that I finally started an alt is when I change the vowel alignment on my last.

That's your letterbox alt where you just go and say homophobic things to people. Terrible. Just F slurs. Just constant. Oh, my God. Listen, I've had to shut down comments on stuff on Letterbox before. My review of the Batman is just, who is this F slur who thinks he can save golfers? Cigarette emoji.

Oh, boy. But you can find me on Twitter and Letterbox. Don't call me an F slur there. Yeah, let's not. Yeah, that's our thing, everybody, that doesn't have to be the thing that everybody decides they're going to get in on the joke for. Right, right. That's just us. That's our.

You can find me at Crispy File. That's F.E.I.L. We'd like to thank Kyle Cummings for his fantastic artwork and Dave Gonzalez and Gavin Mievous for their technical guidance. Please remember to rate, like, and review us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Google Play, Stitcher, wherever else you get those podcasts. Five-star review in particular really helps us out with Apple Podcasts visibility. So, hey, baby doll, what's going on? Hopefully some nice reviews. That's all for this week.

We hope you'll be back next week for more buzz. Hey, baby, doll, what's going on? Sweet baby, baby, I'll sing my song for you You were strong when I was free With a kiss A baby doll I'm putting that on all my playlists

Just every single one If you come to a party at my apartment In the next year You will hear Hey Baby Doll If you go to anybody's party You need to steal the ox cord And just put on Hey Baby Doll Discord terrorists, just going to parties and being like, stop inviting Joe to your party because he's going to put on this song from this Al Pacino movie that I've never heard of.

The top artist and your Spotify wrapped this year is going to be Al Pacino. I hope his Spotify logo is him as Danny Collins. Hold on, hold on. I have to look it up. It has to be on Spotify. Hold on. All right, look it up. I hope you're still recording because this is all going in.

Oh, I'm not. No! It's just going to be me. It's just going to be my end of this conversation. You're not backup audio. No, that's true. I have the combo audio. I'll use that for it.

Absolutely, I will. It'll be the end of the episode. 2% of the people will find it. I don't think it's on here. Hold on. Justice. All right, now I'm boycotting Spotify. Not before.

Not because of Joe Rogan, but now. Now they've crossed me for the last time. There's a song called, Hey, baby doll by Eddie Bush, but I don't think that's it. No, Danny Collins on Spotify. All right. We ride up Don. Goodbye.