This Had Oscar Buzz - 189 – Margot at the Wedding (with Kyle Buchanan)

Episode Date: April 11, 2022

After earning an Oscar nomination for his screenplay for The Squid and the Whale, Noah Baumbach followed up that film’s success by partnering with the recently Oscar-ed Nicole Kidman for Margot at the Wedding. The film cast Kidman opposite Jennifer Jason Leigh (then married to Baumbach) as verbally warring sisters, the youngest of who is … Continue reading "189 – Margot at the Wedding (with Kyle Buchanan)"

Uh-oh, wrong house. No, the right house. I didn't get that! We want to talk to Marilyn Hacks. I'm from Canada. I'm from Canada water. Will the water be crowded? I can't say I have a lot of hope for the whole thing.

She's only known this guy a year. Why are we going then? We're supporting her. Marco tried to murder me when we were girls. She put me on a baking sheet and sprinkled me with paprika and put me in the oven. I'm just rat in my vows. Are you working on anything now? Yeah.

How about you? I hate that question. What do you do? You ask me. Hello and welcome to the This Had I. Oscar Buzz podcast, the only podcast that's called Buzz because, yes, we are a honeybee. Every week on this had Oscar Buzz, we'll be talking about a different movie that once upon a time had Lofty Academy Award aspirations, but for some reason or another, it all went wrong.

The Oscar hopes died, and we are here to perform the autopsy. I'm your host, Joe Reed. I'm here, as always, with my prominent pink hat, Chris File. Hello, Chris. We've moved past bucket lists. We are now onto bucket hats. That's true. We're covering the gamut.

Rob Reiner's the bucket hat. Yeah. Okay. I was worried about the bucket hat because I was like, watching this in 2022 is the bucket hat that she wears going to feel less ridiculous because the bucket hat has been re-embraced by Gen Z, ironically or not. And thank goodness it's that basically fuchsia pink. Yes. It really does stand out. That color itself looks ridiculous in the rest of the movie.

Well, even at the time, like I don't think 2007 was even like the heyday of. of the Bucket Hat era. I feel like she was still probably behind that trend by several years anyway. So always, always illities in her circumstances are Margo. Excited to talk about this movie. We've sort of, we bring this up kind of a lot when we talk about, we've talked about a lot of Kidman. This is our, I want to say, eighth Nicole Kidman movie that we've done. We've talked a lot about Bomback on this show, sort of his movies, but also just in general,

Oscar talk. And we were very happy that our guest this week requested this movie specifically because we've wanted to talk to him and we've wanted to talk about this movie. And it's the perfect time for it because as we are recording this episode, we are T-minus seven days from the Academy Awards. By the time you hear this, our listeners, the Academy Awards will be well behind us. But we are still in the dark. So we will welcome our esteemed guest this week, pop culture reporter for the New York Times, author of the column The Projectionist, and author of the fantastic book, Blood, Sweat, and Chrome, all about Mad Max Fury Road. Kyle Buchanan, welcome to this had Oscar buzz.

Hey, boys. How are you fresh off of a late night at the PGA's? I guess your late night was not quite as late because you weren't following your tweets from the East Coast as I was. I don't feel very fresh this season. I actually wish I could time travel. to the point where this episode is coming out because it will mean that this is all behind us.

Not that I hate covering any of this, obviously. Of course. That is my job. I do see people who tweet things like, oh, I wish this award season was over or longest award season ever, and they're the people who cover it 24-7, 365 days a year. I who am in the middle of waiting

an exhaustive ranking of every nominated movie, I'm just like, I want this to be over. But like, I do still love it. Yeah, yeah, listen, it's, it ain't coal mining. No, exactly. But yes, allow your listeners to time travel back a little bit to where Coda just won the PGA. And it's, it's mad chaos going into the final stretch. It's, it's been wild following you specifically because I know that you are sort of crossing the continent, promoting your book, as you are also covering these awards.

So, like, I just saw you at, from afar, at Alamo talking about the book at a screening of Fury Road. And I didn't walk up and say hello because your line of admirers looking for an autographed copy of the book was quite long, all the way to the bar at the Brooklyn Alamo. But you did get spray painted in the face. Yes, I got spray painted in the face. There was a guy in the front row. So, yeah, it was a screening of Fury Road. I did a Q&A and a signing after. And at the Q&A, there was this guy who was very insistent in the front row that he be called on.

And I was not the moderator, for once, and had no sway over those things. He was not called on, and they were about to wrap it up. And he was just like, I must, I must, like, shooting that hand up in the air. I must be called on. So we called on him, and he came up, like, crouched right. next to me on my director's chair and yelled witness and spray painted his mouth, but also my eyes accidentally, with silver cake paint. Watching it in person, I was, I was like, oh, God, I hope Kyle didn't get any of that in

his eye. And then watching, you posted the video of it on your social afterwards. And I'm like, nope, yep, he got it right in his eye. Oh, no. Yeah, they don't tell you to expect that when you're writing a book. right that's not in the packet that's not in the packet that they send you cake pan in the eye right so okay i want to stick with the pga though for half a second because again this is going to be old news to our listeners but whatever we have you here and i do want to talk about it everybody right now that coda

has won the pga is kind of not everybody jumping to the side of coda's going to win best picture but obviously this is a major precursor so now it feels like it's almost like a half and half And Chris and I are also similarly divided on this. We've talked about this. I jumped over to Coda a little bit ago. And Chris, you've stuck with Power of the Dog, but I think we're both kind of, you know, in Flip a Coin territory. Well, PGA has become less predictive in recent years than it's been in the past,

but it's also not happened right in the middle of Oscar voting. So I could be wrong. So where are you, Kyle, where are you on this? Where would you lean towards what's going to win? Well, obviously I want your listeners to remember that I predicted the winner. So I might just cough when I give my ultimate prediction here. I do think what's interesting is that I tweeted as much today that I kind of thought when Koda came out in August and no one was watching it or talking about it. Right.

that maybe it was over with, certainly that it would have a really hard time mounting an award season comeback. And the funny thing is, and this probably wouldn't happen if you, you know, weren't A on a streamer and B on a streamer with Deep Pockets, is that the lack of people who saw it in August is actually working in the movie's favor now because they're all catching up with it. and it's playing like a new contender rather than a tapped out one, like the power of the dog, and certainly like Belfast, which at one point was going to be the sort of crowd-pleasing alternative to power the dog. This has been my thing about the movie, too, because also when they started basically doing nonstop Q&As for this movie back in the summer when it first was released, like it still was able to build like a base of support around the movie. but then I think you're also very right that it's probably the last movie that a lot of voters are catching up to. But seriously, in August, I thought

maybe this will be a this had Oscar buzz candidate, you know? Totally, yeah. We've seen, and you guys have covered plenty of movies that sold for a bundle at Sundance and then they came out and no one seemed to care, which was the initial release journey of CODA. Well, what I want to ask you specifically, though, because my feeling over the last few weeks

and why I've kind of jumped to CODA is watching all of the ceremonies, the televised ceremonies, from SAG to Critics' Choice, even the Indie Spirits, where they weren't really nominated very much except for Troy Kotzer. And in all of those ceremonies watching them, just as a TV viewer, I feel like there was a charge in the room whenever Kota would win something. That's when sort of things really seem to come alive. Everybody in the room really felt like they wanted in on that. And I was like, well, why wouldn't Oscar voters feel the same way?

Now, you have been in many of those rooms. So, like, am I off base? Am I overrating its appeal in this way? Like, how would you feel about that? No, you're not. The award season champion, not just because he's been winning awards, but because he shines at every show is Troy Kotzer, who gives absolutely the best acceptance speech of literally every show that he has been at.

And I think because he kind of became the face of the movie, that just transfers over to the movie. Now, please, I hope, since I'm recording this before the Oscars, I hope Troy Cotser does not say anything about Venus and Serena Williams at the Oscars while accepting his trophy. But he is just so charming and he is charming and funny in the way that if you love Coda, you find Coda to be. So it's just a real additive experience to have him out there winning things.

Well, and also all of these shows, even when they're not, because the other thing is like the actors from the film all tend to take the stage together at one point or another, whether to all present something at the same time or to go up and accept an award on the film's behalf. And the movie is so much about how much you root for this family by the end and you really want the best for them. And because they have been sort of taking to award season as that sort of familiar. unit, a vote for them is almost like a vote for this family and this movie that if you liked the movie, you're clearly, you know, really rooting for these guys. So, um, right. And in a way that, uh, if you saw Benedict Cumberbatch and Cody Smith McVee on stage together, you would not have the same. However, however, I mean, Netflix does have a little bit of that warm fuzziness with Kirsten Dunst and Jesse Plemons, the internet's favorite couple. I think they're

very cognizant of it. They recently sent out mugs with Kirsten and Jesse to the press, kind of hoping for that little Dunst-Plemmons bump, too. Netflix will throw swag at you. Like, that is their weapon of choice, I feel like, in award season. I have so many coffee table books at my parents' house right now that I have no idea what to do with, just sort of weighing down every bit of furniture that's there with these giant coffee tables. Houses will crumble from the weight of Netflix art books.

My giant Hand of God book that I have no idea what to do with. Like, okay. I wanted to pivot to, obviously, Mad Max Fury Road. This is Blood, Sweat and Chrome is the title of the book. Specifically, because we are a podcast about the Oscars, as tangential as we are towards it, obviously, Mad Max Fury Road is the movie that it is, whether the Oscars recognize it or not.

Mad Max Fury Road, the actual thing of it, right? The thing that's on the screen doesn't change whether the Oscars recognized it or not. But the fact that they did, the fact that it did get nominated for so many Oscars and won a bunch of them, it does make that narrative, does it not? Yeah, it does.

It's a rare case of the Oscars kind of being in the first wave of a good critical reaction to a movie like that, you know, a movie that you could have easily seen people say years ago, well, that should have been nominated for picture and director.

And it was. You know, I mean, the movie when it came out was an incredible critical success, but not a box office world beater like Avengers or Jurassic World, you know, which both came out that year, Avengers Age of Ultron. You know, those movies made billions of dollars. Mad Max Fury Road got beat its first weekend by Pitch Perfect 2, you know? Right. And obviously Warner Brothers that season did not expect it to be their prize pony. They thought that was going to be Black Mass with Johnny T. depth, which just wasn't a wet squib of a movie. And I think it really took a long time for them

to pivot and say, okay, let's abandon this, you know, on paper Oscar Beatty movie that's not clicking because everyone keeps telling us that actually what they really love is Fury Road. Do you have any, in researching for the book, what are the sort of Oscar-related anecdotes and stories that jump out at you as your favorites? I mean, listen, because I am me, when I wrote the rough draft of the book, the very first draft, the longest chapter was the Oscar chapter. Of course. I had to cut that down, obviously, because there's no reason that should be the longest one. But I just loved it because it was full of funny anecdotes and especially petty infighting between Oscar bloggers calling each other out, calling out Oscar strategists.

I was like, okay, this is ultimately way too inside baseball. We brought on way too many characters with bizarre access to grind. Oscar bloggers in and of themselves could be a post-apocalyptic subculture with... I was going to say, it's a Morton Jones' own army of heathenistic... Yeah, exactly. I mean, listen, when I got into this game, I was like, am I good at this or am I just not a crazy person? You know? Like, maybe it was a low bar. But yeah, so it is one of those things where I think it provides a nice arc near the end of the book

because you've, you know, you've read about just the craziness and the two decades that it's taken to Mount Fury Road, which really is a masterpiece despite any and all odds. Everything bad that could have happened to this movie did. You know, if you're interested in how hard it is to make a movie, you don't find a, a wilder, longer, and ultimately more inspiring, I hope, story than this one. So to see the Oscars kind of get it right and kind of kick off a wave of sort of a recontextualization, like a newfound critical appraisal to be like, no, this isn't just a good action movie. This is like very immediately part of the canon. You know, this is a movie

that certainly in the years since has only grown and grown and grown and grown. Like, You could just tweet the words Mad Max Fury Road, and you would get 1,000 retweets. I was going to say, right? People just love the movie and they're evangelists for it. And you rarely see the Oscars kind of get it right. In fact, I think, I mean, listen, I would have liked to see George Miller win director for sure. Wouldn't we all? It's kind of wild to me that in Yeritu won that year for The Revenant two in a row.

Although I think ultimately... It's probably partly because Warner Brothers stalled. on making this their top priority. Like, if this had been a higher priority for them, they could have probably easily taken that one as well. That's part of it. But then you also had Leonardo DiCaprio as his best actor case making the, you know, campaigning on the fact that this movie was incredibly hard to make.

So you had him and Inuri 2 making that case. And ultimately, I think they, I mean, they knew that Fury Road was hard to make. But nobody was quite telling those stories yet. Whereas you heard a lot. about what was going on with the Revenant and how difficult it was. And I guess that's, I think that's what put it over. But certainly on a revote, I mean, what Miller accomplished was incredible. My only thing that I think the Oscars did not get right is that Charlize absolutely should

have been nominated that year for Furiosa. And they have sometimes gotten that kind of thing, right? I mean, Sigourne and Weaver getting nominated for aliens, love, perfect. And I think she, Charlie's absolutely a shoulder to shoulder. with what Sigourney did in that movie and it's a shame that she didn't get in because she worked her ass off for it but she wasn't around to campaign

she was shooting again they didn't know that it would be a thing where they would need her and I think they kind of you know for her to get into that race you do have to come back and do Q&A's and re-contextualize the performance for Oscar voters

to go to be like oh yeah that is good that is significant and that was challenging what was she shooting at the time was it Huntsman Winter's War Oh, God. I was probably... I was just like, what is the worst possible way that that could have ended?

Like, what is... I mean, you know, a lot of the time when they think they have an Oscar movie on their hands, the publicity demands in their contracts include that sort of carve-out, where, you know, the actors are not planning to work when that movie comes out. I mean, that's how Charlize was with bombshell. You know, she also produced that film, and she said, listen, I'm going to go out there. I'm going to shake every hand, talk to every person.

to get this movie in the mix. And I don't think she knew or Wonder Brothers knew that she would be needed. But it is a shame because she's so phenomenal in it. Well, and the George Miller tip... Oh, sorry, go ahead, Chris. No, I was going to say,

I was going to bring it to, like, the Mad Max ceremony. My memory of the ceremony is so much that, like, the ceremony clicked into Mad Max gear, and there was, like, that hour, maybe hour and a half chunk of the ceremony that belonged to Mad Max, and then it stopped as abruptly as it started.

But also that the people who went on stage, I mean, you know, we talk a lot about letting the Oscars actually play all the categories during the live broadcast. And I think Mad Max is a great indication of why you should do that, not just because a really, you know, big action film is winning a lot of Oscars, which they say they want, but also because the people who were winning those Oscars were really unique weirdos, and they made great speeches and sometimes had to get bleeped and wore leather jackets with the immortal symbol studded on them in rhinestones, like really cool, funny, interesting moments. And, you know, sometimes when you recognize those tech

categories, you get a little bit of those, who the hell are these people kind of vibes that I think give the Oscars a little bit of spice. they were kind of the like the bad kid equivalent of the new zealand brigade from return of the king when everybody uh when that swept and they were all sort of the kind of curious people who lived in the in you know their little hobbit towns in new zealand or whatever and then here comes the mad max free road gang a decade later sort of with their with their leather jackets and bad attitudes and everything like that is very fun the thing about the george miller uh best director thing that i've always found so curious about that particular year is my kind of grand unified theory about the modern, this sort of era of the Oscars, where Best Director feels very much often like the culmination of the craft categories, like all the craft categories sort of funnel up to Best Director, sort of Quaron for Gravity felt that way, and in a lot of ways, if Best Picture, Best Director splits this year between Power of the Dog and Coda, like you could have it.

a year sort of like that where like campion sort of gets the technical bravura you know culmination in that and that's how that ceremony felt like it was going that in under that rubric miller would have won definitely and in eurychu feels like almost like the vestigial tale of what people thought was going to happen which was that the revenant was going to take all of those crafts awards And if a given, you know, maybe a few more weeks or whatever of voters kind of settling into what this Mad Max narrative was going to be, maybe it would have gotten there, who knows. I mean, that was a really wild year where, yeah, the guilds were completely spread out. You had Spotlight, the Big Short won PGA, the Revenants. Big short winning PGA is something that I've totally forgotten about.

And I looked it up today because I wanted to see what other times that it strayed from best picture. at the Oscars. And that's a wild one. That's the, that's the outlier, I feel like, for PG. I remember talking to the strategists who worked on spotlight and they truly feel like they pulled it out with just a couple of votes. So it's wild to remember that Fury Road was in the mix too. I mean, I would love to see those vote totals. True craziness could have happened. Although it is worth noting that the same strategist who worked on spotlight, then people like Lisa Tavac and Albert Tello are also at Netflix now working on things like Power of the Dog. Right, totally. All right, well, we could talk about Fury Road all day, and we want to sort of pivot to our topic at hand. But first off, with all our first time guests, we want to talk about sort of what you are, we tend to term it as, you know, your Oscar's origin story, right? What were your first memories of appreciating the Oscars as a thing, the first year that you really got into it? What are your memories of it?

I remember watching it every year as a kid, and I've talked about this before, but this is really why I believe in the Oscars always showing clips, which is that as a child, you know, I wasn't being exposed to any of these movies. I wasn't watching art house films or really even, you know, anything that was outside a normal six-year-old, 10-year-old, 14-year-olds, you know, mainstream grasp. my only real exposure to those sorts of movies were on Siskel and Ebert, and when I would watch clips at the Oscars. And it was always really involving, not just because even if you're an amateur who hasn't seen the performances, you can watch those clips and make some, you know, snap judgment about who you think should win, but because those clips were a portal into another world, a world that I was really eager to eventually inhabit, you know. And so that's what I remember when I remember the Oscars, also studying what my parents would laugh at during the opening monologues, giving me a sense of, you know, an adult sense of humor, I guess.

And, yeah, I looked forward to it all the time. And, you know, I mean, I have, I think as any cogent person would, like a love, hate relationship with the Oscars. you know again they don't always get it right it's so gratifying when they do but they also don't always get the show right and it's so gratifying when they do because it happens way more rarely than the you know the right thing winning um but i i operate from a place of love you know and i think that what's that do we know if they're cutting clips this year because like honestly uh clips is probably like my favorite answer we've ever had for like the thing that like logged you into the Oscars but like I do feel that we could have another clipless Oscars this year granted this could be all moot for listeners but you know it's especially interesting with so much of the pageantry being taken away from what the Oscars are to hear that answer now well I'll just say that the rise of the Oscars clip Twitter account is I think indicative of like what people like about award shows and what the Oscars don't understand people like

like, which is they should be the ones putting out a Twitter account like that. They should be doing it from their own Twitter account. In fact, if you go to their YouTube and you want to watch, you know, a best actress win or something, you won't see any clips because they haven't licensed them. It's like going to watch a drag race lip sync and it's just the beginning and the ending. No song. It's so stupid. And it's like, no, people care about this.

And they love seeing the reactions. they love talking about that choice of clip, you know, for that, for that Twitter account, which is so wonderful to have, you know, become a huge deal for film fans in just the space of a few short months is an indication of why we watch that show. And, I mean, it's true malpractice that last year's Oscars did away with those clips entirely, especially in a year where a lot of people hadn't seen those films. They tune in to know what is in contention and what's, should I watch?

What am I vibing with? You know, the Oscars are a springboard for a lot of these smaller films to get seen in every possible way. And the clips are a really important part of that. I interviewed Nicole, who hosts the Oscar Clips, a Twitter account. Hello, Nicole, we love you. You are doing a solid service. My one glimmer of hope with Clips for this year is because last year's ceremony was so poorly received and poorly rated, I do feel like this year they might just do everything the opposite of what they did last year.

And so clips would maybe be included in that. And we'll see. I was more mixed on the Soderberg production than maybe a lot of people. But I do feel like obviously I wanted clips and hopefully we will get them. Well, I just don't understand why it's not sort of like built into a contract. Yes. That if the studio is licensing the clips for use on the broadcast, that it can be shown in the YouTube.

It's all to the good for everybody involved, so make it happen. And, you know, I mean, listen, I don't want to drive Oscars clip out of business, but again, malpractice that the actual Academy Twitter doesn't do any of this shit. No, I 100% agree. It's the lack of foresight.

I mean, we have been, YouTube has existed for a very long time, and that we are not writing these music rights or clip rights into all of these different things. at this point in 2022 is bizarre and crazy. But anyway, I imagine it smacks of, you know, corner cutting and, you know, trying to save a buck here and there. But my God.

Anyway, almost as disagreeable as that whole situation is how I'm going to transfer us into talking about Margot at the wedding, a film about some really disagreeable people. And I think that it did play into quite a bit into the Oscar-list narrative of this movie. Kyle, you suggested, you requested this movie particularly, and I would love to know what drew you to this particular film. I would love to know, too.

I saw it immediately in your list of unpicked movies, and I'm like, that's the one. There's just something about this movie. I'm not a sociopath. In fact, I'm a really nice guy. The people in this movie are not. No, no. Nicole is so brutal.

in it. But I don't know. It really clicks for me. Multiple guys that I have dated or romanced love Margot at the wedding. I don't know what that says about my type or the type of guy who has me as a type, but it's true. It's a thing. One of them even did a full-blown Zoom lip sync to Nicole Kidman in the book reading scene, which was incredible. Wow. And when I first got to know one of your recent guests, the lovely Patrick Vale, this is maybe the very first movie that we bonded over. Fantastic. It does feel like there is a particular appeal to, if not all gay men, then like a certain quality of gay men where it's just like,

oh, beautiful actresses behaving absolutely horridly. Like, just being the main diagram of people I know that like this movie are gay men, it's a circle. Right. Well, it's a funny thing because obviously Noah Baumbach, the director makes movies about, you know, people who are disagreeable at best and flat out mean to each other at worst. But I feel like when they're men, it's more tolerable.

I mean, Greenberg with Ben Stiller, came out not long after this and got far better reviews, and he's worse to me. Even the squid in the whale. Not to sugarcoat it, though, because Nicole Kim and as Margo is just brutal. Yes. Even the squid in the whale, which was the Bomback movie that preceded it, and which was a big part of the reason why I would say Margo at the wedding had the Oscar buzzed that it had, aside from the fact that Kidman was in it, and she was always going to bring some degree of buzz. But it did feel like Noah Bomback had gotten his foot in the door with the Oscars, and maybe this would be a further step. And the squid in the whale, for as much as it was well received, that is not a film about likable people either. And even, you know, you're sort of your teen character and your kid character, there is nothing, nothing particularly cuddly about any of them. And they exist on a kind of spectrum from more tolerable to intolerable. And that...

And Margot at the wedding is almost a doubling down on the unpleasantness of squid and the whale. Yes. The, like, caustic things said between parents and children, the sexual uncomfortableness, the, the, like, Like, people saying things that, like, you think they would be too sophisticated to say that are outright offensive. It is a doubling down, but in the sense to me, that it's funnier. Like, I agree. I just think this is a funnier, sharper movie than almost everything else he's made. I fully acknowledge that I am sometimes out of step with Noah Baumbach in that.

I mean, I liked Squid and the Whale. I didn't love it like everybody else did. Francis Ha, I don't think, is a good movie, and everybody cream their pants over it. Kyle, I wish you would have told me this before I let you come on my podcast. Well, but listen, I am on the record as loving Francis Ha, however, it's all false. I got quoted in an FYC ad at the time. Get out of here. It's a huge, like, 500 point font where it's an attributed to me quote that says

Gerwig is so winning and optimistic, she makes a struggling seem way more fun than having your life together. Literally never seen. said it, never wrote it. You can Google that quote. It only comes up on the ad. It was, that's, I still have not ever gotten to the bottom of how that ad happened with my name on it when I don't even like that movie. Wait, so full fabrication, you never said that sentence in any context. Wow.

Some awards reddish was just like, he'll never see it. That's wild. How often does that happen? Of course, everyone sent it to me. How often does that kind of thing happen in? Well, I hope not more often than that. Yeah. The only time I know of it happening.

Sheepers. That's wild. Wow. Now I've got to collect myself. That is brazen. I would have happily said such things about Margot at the wedding. And we'll be doing it. And anyone can quote me from this episode.

And we will because we were going to re-release this movie next year and we're going to try and get the two that it has coming. We'll see how people respond. The interesting thing is like Margot at the wedding has not, I, like, fully, expected this to be available on streaming because this has always been like readily available on Netflix and such, which is partly why I think, you know, there are, you know, a coven of gay men that do really like this movie because they've seen it. I just feel like it's surprising nobody brings this up negatively when like marriage story is out there and I, who knows,

we'll have another Noah Baumbach movie this year. But, um, I kind of similarly feel out of step with Noah Baumbach to the degree that things are either disliked or liked. Like, we've done an episode on The Meyerwood Stories, which is probably my favorite Noah Bomback movie, but like nobody talks about that movie. Good, and they shouldn't. Oh, we did. And, yeah, this is one of my favorite Noah Bomback movies, which makes me sound like some type of murderer.

I imagine I'm probably somewhat predictably the outlier in this in that I greatly respect this movie and think everybody is doing a great job in it and it is incredibly sharply and humorously written I don't enjoy the experience of watching it I can I love the experience of watching see and I think that's got to be the key I don't know I mean maybe that makes you a better person than us Joe like doesn't you know it sure doesn't of the dog when there's the scene where Cody Smith-McPhee dissects the rabbit and you're like, oh, he's sociopath, like, full-blown. Maybe that's me loving Margo at the wedding. I don't know. It could be a tell. But again, like, this is the second time watching it, and I, the first time I watched it, I felt the exact same way. And now, going back into it, oh, so many years later, I was like, I'll probably feel different. It's a lifetime, like, it's been literally 15 years of me living in New York City since I've seen that. I saw that movie the year I moved

to New York. And I'm like, and I literally have the thought of like 15 years in New York City, like being immersed in, you know, mean gay culture. I'm just like, I'm sure I would love this movie now. And I had the exact same feeling of watching again, which is just like I really appreciate what everybody's doing

here. Everybody's great. I hate watching you people. I don't like the actual experience of being immersed. I felt I was in a bad mood when I was done with this movie. Not feeling like it was, again, it's not a bad movie. It just soured my mood for the rest of the day yesterday. And I guess credit to them because I do feel like it is kind of what they're going for. I am joyful after watching this movie. I want to

walk into the sun like I just divorced Tom Cruise and open my arms wide and just take the world in. I don't want to jump to like the ending of the movie. Well, should I give the plot description? We could do that. We are famous for, like, this is of doing our 60-second plot description late. But, like, the movie ends with, I think, a certain type of depth and bravery that I wish Noah Baumbach still had that he doesn't. Because I think in, like, the cinematic language of what's happening, you're meant to feel something because that's the way movies are. But actually, what he's trying to make you feel is the opposite thing. that.

Yeah, I think that's right. But we can talk about it. But yeah, Kyle, thank you for getting us back on task. You are truly the professional among the three of us, so we appreciate that. 60-second plot description, once I lay out the fundamentals and the boilerplate of this movie, we are talking about this week, Margot, at the wedding, directed and written by Noah Bomback, starring Nicole Kidman, Jennifer Jason Lee, Jack Black, Karen Hines, Zane Pace, Flora Cross, Haley Pfeiffer, and John Totoro for a minute there, premiered at the Telluride Film Festival

on August 31st, 2007. It was granted a limited release on November 16th, 2007, and to the very, very mixed to negative reviews. The rare movie that is lower on Rotten Tomatoes than it is on Metacritic, which I feel like when those things diverge a little bit, it's usually the other way around. into it. Before we do, Kyle, I've got 60 seconds on the clock for you. Ready when you are. All right. I'm ready. All right. And begin. Nicole Kidman is an uptight writer named Margo who lives to make scathing assessments of everyone in her life, including her young son Claude and her semi-estrange sister Pauline, played by Jennifer Jason Lee. So you can imagine what a field day Margo is about to have since she's going home to Long Island for her sister

's wedding to Malcolm, a jobless, insecure musician played by Jack Black. Margot says, incredibly mean and shocking things to everybody under the guise of telling them the truth and absolutely cannot take the heat when anyone is even slightly critical of her. So the wedding weekend is a recipe for well-shot disaster as she clashes with her sister, undermines Jack Black, carries on a furtive affair with Kieran Hines, and wears a pink version of the Bears hat from Paddington. All that, and she also climbs a very big tree.

With time to spare, Kyle Buchanan, very good. That is Margot at the wedding. Very succinct, yes. You bring up what is one of my favorite aspects of the characterizations in this movie is that exactly right, that she dishes it out in every direction and can't even begin to take it. And I think both she and Jennifer Jason Lee, and to an extent, Jack Black, too,

although Jack Black is more often collateral damage than anything else in this movie. But the way that the two sisters will turn on a dime from saying something absolutely vicious to them playing the victim, to then throwing in a compliment, almost like to throw the person they're talking to off of the scent. And the way that these conversations just have these absolute hairpin turns of mood, and intention in nastiness and victimhood, it's really well done, and it communicates, you get the sense that, like, oh, God, you've been this way your whole lives. Like, I can't imagine. I can't imagine just the carnage of living this way and having this relationship in your life all the time.

Including with a whole other sibling who we never see. Yes. Who, like, could have made it even worse. Who would you have cast as this unseen third sense? sibling. Ooh. Tony Collette for sure. Oh, man. Ah, yes. That's the thing that kind of,

it clues you into what this movie is going to be fairly early, which is, and you've already gotten, like, senses of it when they're in the car ride over there, but it's when they're in the house and they're talking about the sister, and I can't remember which one is, like, she got the worst of it, raped by the horse trainer. And then they immediately just, like, the happiest they've ever been giggling.

It's not even laughing. It's giggling. There's no mordant laughter. Like, it's not dark. It's not haunted. They are giggling. And I was like, oh, this is the tone. This is what we're doing.

Like, it really is bracing in that way. Let me give the listeners who maybe haven't seen this movie just a hint by zeroing in on one specific cut of what this movie is like. And I'll give you the line that happens before the cut. and then the next scene, the first line of that scene. The first part, the front half, is they've just been playing a game and Margo is obviously very competitive and starts exhortating her poor son who is so sweet. And then when called out on it, she says, this is why I hate games. I hate what it does to me, which is a great line.

I think about it all the time if I ever get too competitive. this is this is first of all margot i mean it's full of these sort of great well-observed lines but this is also again margot completely absolving herself of anything bad that she ever says or does if she ever gets called out on it or people say you've gone too far she starts to judge them for making her feel bad she doesn't give a shit if she makes anyone else feel bad but she's like how dare you why would you make me feel uncomfortable you know that x and y and z um so it's great that like it shows a glimmer of self-awareness, but in the very warped way that Margot has it.

And then she goes straight from that to smash cut to the next scene. They're all having lunch. Nicole as Margo looks at Jennifer Jason Lee, Pauline, and Jack Black, Malcolm, and says, Malcolm, have you ever noticed how Pauline sometimes can't make eye contact? Like, so mean. Why would you do that? Why would you undermine everyone else? And why have you learned nothing, you know?

And that's the movie. And sometimes you can take that because I find it kind of hilarious, especially because the lines are so sharp, how little self-awareness these people have, and how, you know, the poor innocence among them just have to navigate that. But also I just think that is an incredible edit. And the whole film is really provocatively, like, edited with a lot of spikes, a lot of unexpected cuts, and that one to me is my favorite.

The scene when Terturo finally shows up, and they're in the car. Her husband, right? You want to say a strange husband, but... She's meanwhile having an affair with the perfectly named Dick Kuzman, who's Kieran Hines is playing. Just a great name. But where they... ...showing up in the shortest shorts you have ever seen Kare Hines ever be in.

That's true. but they the woman alongside the road who her dog's been hit and they pick her up and she's you know this you know my poor dog we've got to get to a hospital blah blah and all the while kidman's in the front seat margot's there going not even that quietly being like I can't stand this woman and then and then after they drop her off being like I wouldn't have stopped for her and he's like yes you would have and she's like no I wouldn't have and you're probably judging me for that and I hate myself when I'm around you you make me feel terrible about myself. And she just sort of like walks around this entire amusement park of her

own psychosis, like all by herself, and then ends up at the end, sort of like falling into his shoulder or whatever. And then being like, I want you to go. And I mean, come on. That's incredible. I've, I've often wondered this, and I especially wonder when I watch Margot at the wedding, if Noah Baumbach has like a notes app note where he just writes down every evil thing he ever thinks. Yes. And then eventually puts it in a movie. Um, and how can you not think that when you're watching Marco at the wedding where it's just like breathtaking? I mean, funny, but breathtaking how mean she is and how crazed her line of thinking is. Yeah. This goes to some of the misconceptions I think people have about this movie too. And it's like, it's to Bombach's credit,

I think that he, like, is honest about this in that, like, he was interviewed at the time thinking that, like, it was autobiographical, which is, like, when Margo is questioned about that, it brings a whole other layer to it, of if it's autobiographical, like, he is the young son, because people just presume that, you know, the male lead character is a stand-in for the male writer-director. And he actually says, no, I'm Margo in this. And just the kind, there is an element of not even empathy, but understanding towards Margo in this way that I think is like very informative of him as an artist. And of course, the whole bookshop scene is interesting for that. He is sort of the rare male writer-dire director, maybe not rare, but certainly he gets at the hardest where almost every. he does is read through the lens of autobiography because a lot of it is like he talked like you know squid in the whale is obviously you know is read as a story about his parents divorce marriage story is read as a story about his divorce and um i imagine greenberg is the story about how he's a pill like i don't know exactly what that is well and i think margot at the wedding is to some

extent, I mean, like, you know, the situations are not drawn from his life, but, you know, I just talked to somebody who worked on white noise with Bomback, and I was like, how did, how was it? And the guy just sort of, like, took a moment, and he's like, he's not a nice person. Yeah, I mean, that doesn't surprise me. I love most of his stuff, actually, but it does not surprise me one bit. But, you know, I mean, when it comes to the protagonist being a nice person, I think that's where you come to an interesting divide, certainly one that is reflected in how the critics reacted.

And I don't expect everybody to go on this same journey as me. But I don't need the protagonist of a movie to be likable. I just need them to be fascinating. And to me, Margot absolutely fits the bill. It is fascinating to watch how she will spin every situation to be the aggrieved party or how she cannot help herself from saying the wrong thing or takes such pride, in psychoanalyzing everybody. Yeah.

Well, it all, it fits. It tells a coherent, cohesive story. And it is, and I mean, again, me not enjoying the process of watching this movie does not mean that I can separate that, and I should be able to separate that enough, to recognize what is so incredibly good and skillful about this movie. And yet,

I see, like, a lot of their views where somebody's just like, why would anybody want to do this? Why would anybody want to spend their time like this? And I'm like, fair. Like, I think you're wrong. I think there is great value in the filmmaking here and in the performances here. But, like, also fair. Like, granted, okay. And I think Kidman actually is really phenomenal.

And this movie comes in a really interesting stretch for her. So it's, she wins the Oscar. essentially in her second post-divorce year, where if we all sort of like popularly recognize the fact that, like, 2001, her very first Oscar nomination, Mulan Rouge and the others at the same time, that's sort of recognized as like Nicole is emerging from the Tom Cruise, you know, emotional prison or whatever

that she had been in. Now she's on her own. She's getting respect. She gets the Oscar for the hours. A, um, Kyle, if you don't agree with me, then just say nothing. perfect movie, but her run after the hours and after the Oscar

is really interesting to me because it's a lot of, it's sort of this Kidman thing where she's working with a lot of vautors and also like interstitialing that with these kind of commercial plays. And there's as many victories as there are failures, if not

maybe even a little more failures in this particular stretch, where it's the human stain, which we've done on this podcast, cold mountain big oscar contender that ultimately disappoints dogville specifically for her right specifically for her um dogville uh Lars von trier psychological torture for actresses but also fantastic um stepford wives a flop birth we just recently talked about it on this podcast now that's a perfect movie uh to me yes uh i again well whatever we don't have to get into it um birth is great the interpret the one sort of like maybe most anonymous of all of these movies in that it just kind of passed without a whole ton of attention I feel like for a Sydney Pollock movie just sort of was just like okay um last Sydney Pollock movie maybe maybe anyway uh bewitched another flop for a movie we totally could do on this podcast and probably will at some point happy feet it feels like it's

you know, in its own sort of universe. I feel like nobody really talks about her in relation to Happy Feet. I don't know how big her character actually is in that movie because I've not seen it. The Invasion, a movie that is only more notable

than the interpreter, because sometimes people talk about how it was a failure. The Golden Compass, which was a huge, like, you know, would-be franchise that fell on its face and never happened. And then this, Margot with the wedding.

So what to make of this, what to make of this era of Nicole Kidman, I guess, and I'm throwing it up to both of you. I mean, let's be real. This was considered to be Nicole's flop era. Right. Like, these movies were not performing. All the big things that she was doing were not performing either, you know, but which did not click, Invasion, Golden Compass, those did not click.

And no one was watching the other movies. I mean, I think birth is incredible, but it did not. Right. You know, it flopped and was the source of a lot of bad press. Yeah, well, and if not for her Golden Globe nomination, that was like, this was definitely true of fur, but, like, her more, like, autoristic films that she was doing at the time come and go incredibly quickly. Yeah, I do not know if anyone has seen fur besides me. I still haven't, so it's maybe true, yes. It is a really crazy movie where, I mean, that was also in Robert Downey Jr.'s fallow area, but the fallow.

era, like the fact that he is, yes, covered in fur, and that it is somehow a biopic of Dian Arbus, even though it's kind of about a shape of water romancing Bigfoot narrative. It's completely crazy. You're making your sale, Kyle. You're absolutely making your sale as far as I must be. Actually, how much money did Margot at the wedding make? $2 million. Just shy of $2 million.

I mean, now that would be a relative. Right. Massive indie success. That's as much as worst person in the world made. And worst person in the world would be a good title for Margot at the wedding. Yes. Yeah. I mean, this was truly her in the weeds era.

And I think, you know, I understand why she's making a lot of these choices. And I think a lot of them were the right ones. Obviously, I love Margot at the wedding. I love birth. But, yeah, it wasn't clicking. She was written off as, yeah, sort of a flop for quite a while there. One thing that I find somewhat fascinating is if she had made in the cut, which A, would have been another movie where her sister, Jennifer Jason Lee, is named Pauline. And also, it would have fit in perfect with this era.

Like, it would have absolutely just slid in seamlessly with everything else she was doing in this era, which is this, that would have been one of the autour movies that flopped and people kind of hated. And then now, you know, the same way that people are like, birth is great. And, you know, and Kyle, biggest fan of fur ever. Only person who's seen it, so by default. So I don't know. And I mean, like, I super ride for Dogville, even though Dogville's another movie. I don't know what the difference is for me with Dogville and Margo that, like, Dogville's an unpleasant movie that I've watched probably three or four times.

So I don't know what to say for a result there. have a distance to it because of what it is, the whole, like, Thornton Wilder-esqueness of it. This movie, like, and, like, it's interesting, Kyle, that you point out the editing of this movie, because, like, it does really kind of keep you on your toes, too, the kind of, like, constant, like, back and forth. It's only a 90-minute movie, but, like, even so, none of its scenes are very long to the point where, like, the set piece of the movie is probably Jennifer for Jason Lee shitting her pants

and it's a 30 second scene um whereas like Dogville you you just really have to like sit in it it's a three hour movie you know

yeah and I think you can make a connection from this editing to Mistress America where the entire first half of the movie is in it's truly micro scenes might as well be a montage

until they get to that one house and the movie settles down I think you know he went in as someone more experimental editing direction here that he occasionally comes back to. Yeah, that's a good point. The Jennifer Jason Lee, shitting her pants, seen, watching it again, and again, I've seen this movie before, watching it, I was just like, oh, is she having a miscarriage?

And I think, like, the difference between a movie that would have gone for that would have sort of gone for the Chekhov's gun of her pregnancy in the beginning of the movie to a more sort of, like, tragic place by the end. And it's just like, no, he's just going to go for maximum. embarrassment, and, like, you know, he's just going to put her through the ringer in that particular way, feels indicative of this movie. Sometimes Margo can say something that's not cutting, and still very funny, because she has the scene with, it happens to everyone, not just babies.

Not just babies. It's a great line. Do you think Margo is kind of the diabetty of this movie where, like, everything she's saying is kind of right, but she's not saying it the right way? What's that Marge Simpson Giff of just like, well, he's right, but he shouldn't say it. Jack Black is Jasmine Kennedy. Okay, how do we feel about Jack Black in this movie? That Jack Black...

Love him, love him. I think he's really good. Sexiest I've ever found him, so appealing, so dialed into the character. I didn't remember that you could see his penis in this movie, but you can. If you're looking for it, yes. I remember the butt. Definitely remember the butt. cute little bum bum. He's quite good in this movie and being asked to do obviously a thing that

is a good distance away from like the Jack Black thing. And it reminds me that like he's done roles like this before, but he's never done the full on like Jack Black is like you've never seen him before, you know, kind of a movie that like Will Ferrell has done that and Jim Carrey has done that. And Ben Stiller definitely sort of like started doing that and kind of never stopped at one point. And unless I'm forgetting something, like I can't think of like the Jack Black movie where it's like he's, you know,

he's taken it seriously. He's being very, you know, indie sad. And in this one, there are flashes of that kind of classic Jack Black thing, the line where I've punched somebody. You don't know, they're not around anymore because I punched him like that line or whatever that I believe is in the trailer. And so you get like those,

flashes. And of course, obviously, like, Jack Black running is one of those things that is kind of always funny. And you get the scene of him running away. Right. Exactly. But he's asked to do quite a lot more in this than he normally's asked to do. And I think he does very much succeed. I think his best scene of sort of marrying that indie actor vibe to his genuine comic gifts is later in the movie, there's a scene where Jennifer Jason Lee confronts him about whether he's had an affair. I mean, Margot has basically been undermining their whole relationship the whole time, so there's all these seeds of doubt.

And he very effectively parries all of her interrogations to the point where, like, she's been calmed down and she's been assured. And then just as that happens, he starts to cry because he's lying to her and then finally confesses. And it's a great little scene arc. and he plays it so marvelously and it's so funny. The scene where Jennifer Jason Lee is it the one that comes right after that

where she's walking down the stairs behind the girl and she lifts her foot up as if she's going to kick her down the stairs and then freezes with her foot in the air. Like she's in a Warner Brothers cartoon is so incredibly funny to me where she's just like caught and just her foot's in the air and she can't explain it, and she doesn't. That's right, because then the girl goes outside and tells her dad that she can tell the jig is up, and then he runs after Jack Black.

She was in Squid and the Whale, right? She was the sort of quasi-girlfriend figure for Jesse Eisenberg, if I'm not mistaken. Correct. Yeah, yeah. An interesting movie for the kind of child characters. They're all, like, there is not a typical child. character type in this. They're all in one way or another. Nobody's cutesy. Even poor Claude. You feel terribly bad for Claude. But it's also, you know, there's an arm's lengthness

to that character, too. You're not really in it with him as much. But he is so good. That kid is so good. Zane Pace. I was rewatching it and being like, wow, he's so good. What has he gone on to do? Because he's so natural and dialed in even at a young age. And I learned two things. One is that I learned he's the son of character actor Josh Pace. Once you learn that, you can't not see it in the face. Yeah. And if you don't know him, Google him because you've seen him and everything. And he always brings an incredibly specific vibe.

Yeah. And two is that now he is all grown up and hot and was naked in a gay episode of Modern Love directed by Andrew Reynolds. What? Wow. This news, Kyle, you're bringing the news to the children. I love it. Look, I did my research. Fantastic.

God, yeah. Thank God for you. yeah really really good performance that he looks absolutely exactly like his dad once you see it the josh paste movie the role that i always come back to and i don't know if i'm the only one but he was in that movie teeth that was what i was gonna say really okay too where yeah where he gets his hand bit off he's the doctor he's the first doctor and he goes it's true vagina dentata it's so my favorite part of that movie that i only liked about half as much as i kind of wanted to but My friend Hale is in that. He gets his dick bitten off.

Nice. Very good. Nice work if you can get it. Yeah, definitely. That is the Josh Pace role that I go back to. He's also in, he's in Adventureland. He's Christian Stewart's dad in Adventureland. He's individual things. And then the daughter, Jennifer Jason Lee's daughter, who was also just like, just written as a very peculiar creature, just like an odd bird of a girl, this girl. very interesting very sort of atypical child stuff should we talk about Jennifer Jason Lee incredible love her so good always she's the one who sort of came closest to getting precursor attention she got an independent spirit award nomination she was sort of finalist on some of those critics awards that announced nominees before they announced their winners so she was like a chicago critics finalist and a deluxe critics finalist she was on the i believe the um

village voice film poll on their you know somewhere in their in their lists and she's you could see a world in which she gets a campaign for supporting actress she is of the two sisters the com like comparably less toxic one which is a very low bar to clear do you think she is toxic i don't think she's toxic i think she's sympathetic i think their relationship is toxic but it's the thing of when the nicer sibling is around their horrible sibling, they become their horrible sibling. Well, in the sense that she absolutely, I mean, you have the time she's trying to sort of wriggle out from Margot's, from under her thumb, and call her out on her bullshit. And half the time, in a very realistic way, she's still trying to win Margot's impossible approval. Yeah, exactly.

But they also both engage in that thing. We're like, like, she'll pull Claude to the side and be like, Margo said this thing. And, yada, yada, yada. And, like, they'll both be doing it. And she should, because Margo's out there telling everybody else's secrets. Of course. No, exactly. But, again, it is this, like, it is a very sort of toxic sibling relationship.

And, like, again, my kingdom for the side quest movie that is the other sister. And, God, their mother. I can't even, I can't even imagine what this one's like. I love that when you have the opportunity to see the mother in the movie, the movie is just like, nope, Margo's running away. Yep. It's great. It's great. Yeah, and Jennifer Jason Lee, of course, married to Noah Baumbach at this time.

They married in 2005. They divorced, I imagine, right after Greenberg where he cheated on her with a credit her wig. And that, of course, is widely assumed to be the basis or a basis for marriage story is sort of the dissolution of that marriage. Yeah, she's quite good at this point she hadn't been Oscar nominated. It still rankles me that her eventual Oscar nomination is for The Hateful Eight, a movie that I did not care for. There could have been, you know, she could have had a half dozen nominations before then that never happened.

Well, she had close calls in the 90s. Yeah. Especially the early 90s. Specifically, Mrs. Parker and the Vicious Circle. Right. Mrs. Parker in the Vicious Circle, Miami Blues, I feel like she got a lot of precursor attention. And Georgia. Georgia.

Right. Yeah. Georgia was one of those situations. I remember a couple of times in the mid-90s where one actress got a lot of Oscar buzz and then at the last second it ended up being the other actress. I'm thinking also of Marvin's room where Merrill got the Golden Globe nomination and she was being heavily campaigned. And then on Oscar nomination day, it's like, nope, Diane Keaton. Diane Keaton is our nominee. And Georgia felt similar to that and that best actress in 95 was so crowded. And generally, for Jason Lee's character. God, speaking of sisters where one woman is really toxic. She definitely was like, the bad sister, and Mayor Winningham was the good sister, and surprise, surprise, Oscar voters went for the good sister. Yeah, surprising that she went through

that whole stretch without getting a single nomination. It's a bummer. She's one of the best actresses of the 90s. I can pretty much feel safe in saying that. She's great and perpetually underrated for as long as she's been working. And I feel like

maybe that's part of the reason that I love her in this film, because I feel like this film is perpetually underrated. It's not going to be to everyone's taste. She isn't either. Yeah. I'm trying to even... Now I want to bring up her IMDB and sort of think about her more recent stuff. Oh, God, she was in that

sorry, terrible Apple TV Plus series, Lise's story, that had her and Julian Moore and Joan Allen be sisters, and it was still bad. Like, how do you manage that? I was like, no one is saying Jennifer Jason Lee is in this show Like I learned

Like a year after that show aired I learned that she was at it She doesn't get much of a role Like at least I mean I bailed on that show pretty early So maybe at some point Like but it's just Unless we forget the woman in the window Right

The woman in the window where she's like Just human sight gag I did too I liked a lot of small parts of the woman in the window Is the thing like Same That movie doesn't hold together obviously and, but like, I liked more of that movie probably than I should have.

She's rad as hell in Possessor. She, in Possessor and Annihilation, she plays sort of similar roles in that she's sort of the, the doctor sort of like representing the sort of like techno science establishment or whatever in this crazy sci-fi story. Annihilation, of course, she gives the finest line reading. of a film's title. Yes. In our current era, she's so good in that. Did either one of you

to watch the new Twin Peaks and can speak to her role in that? I don't. Yes, I love the new Twin Peaks. She's kind of played as comic relief. I think it's her and Tim Roth, and they're basically like kind of low-level criminals who aren't very good at what they're doing.

and after seeming to be building up to something significant they get dispatched in a way that's so abrupt that it's kind of funny I liked seeing her in that she's not necessarily the standout in that cast though sure sure and then of course as we all are acutely aware of she played Lady Bird Johnson in Rob Reiner's LBJ opposite Woody Harrelson as Lyndon Johnson

The Phantom LBJ the film that we've all seen when it played at Toronto Obviously, the both of you were there at the same screening that I was. We all saw it. We all were definitely there. It is a movie that definitely happened, LBJ, Rob Reiner's LPJ. Yeah, she's always been sort of one of my favorite actresses. She was one of those ones when I was the early 90s and I was just sort of starting to fancy myself a lover of film.

The fact that I was kind of plugged into a lot of her stuff, the fact that I watched Georgia when I was a teenager, made me feel very, very advanced. I watched Mrs. Parker in the Vicious Circle, a movie that could not have been less interesting to a 17-year-old, and yet I was just like, yes, yes, this is so good. No, I don't know. I don't remember a thing about that, and yet, but she was sort of like she was the thinking pretentious, pretentious kids' choice for a great actress, and I mean that is no slight on her whatsoever. I just recently watched a few months ago single white female for the first

time in forever. What a fun entertaining piece of junk movie that was. It's so much fun. Highly recommended to anybody who wants to. There is so, she's, like, she's naked in a lot of that movie. Like, there's so much, like, sex and nudity in that movie, way more than you would get nowadays, even in a, like, you know, sort of, like, because this isn't specifically, it's not an erotic thriller.

It is a roommate from hell story, right? Like, it's, like, even the non-erotic thriller. But there's an erotic thriller. song to the vibe that they've got. 100%. 100%. So why not just smear that around the whole movie as they did in the 90s? And they absolutely did.

So much of the plot of that movie hinges on Bridget Fonda following her to this underground sex club that in a movie made today would have just been something else. It just would have been like because A, because people are probably a little bit more wary of turning

sort of sexual peccadillos into something villainous. and but also just the fact that like movies are less sexually charged these days so um a rad movie highly recommended not so much for uh sharp stick which she is in oh uh listen sharp stick does not work but she's really funny in it the newly she's getting a very jennifer jasonly performance i was going to say this the the the only two times i actually like laughed out loud were jennifer jasonly line readings yeah a movie i I'll say one of them, which is that she's, you know, this kind of faded actress who had a lot of affairs and now she's got two kids.

Yeah. Christine Froseth, who's playing the main character. And I don't even have the room to go into that character. And also Taylor Page from Zola. And she now sort of exists on, I would assume, sort of like, alimony checks from the more successful men that she's been entangled with. And she runs kind of a low-level apartment building she manages in Atwater Village, where I live. And at one point, she kind of sends the main character daughter to go check on someone who hasn't paid rent in a little while. And the main character daughter is making excuses for why that might be so.

And Jennifer Jason Lee isn't buying any of it and sends her to go. And then her eyes kind of light up, Jennifer Jason Lee's do. And she says in this sing-songy voice, eviction and I laughed oh very good yeah not a movie I loved but like you're not wrong about

that particular line reading especially I want to pivot just to the best actress race that year where I think all three of us kind of would agree that Kidman's performance is certainly worthy of an Oscar nomination you look at the nominees

that year so Marion Cotillard wins there are indeed some angels in the city for Leveon Rose Julie Christie came close probably second place for away from her Laura Linney the surprise nominee

for the savages I think that was the one that nobody really saw coming great performance Kate Blanchett for Elizabeth the Golden Age Elliott page for Juno if Kidman's going to crack

that lineup who drops out Kate for me I think I agree with that I mean, she also had I'm not there that year. Right. It's very, yes, it would be very easy to drop her. Just, again, find a way to put the clip of her saying, I have a hurricane in me that will strip Spain bear if you dare test me. Like, just put it somewhere.

I too can command the win, sir. I have a hurricane in me that will strip Spain bear if you dare to try me. Like, just put that clip there. You don't need a nominator. Just like, open the Oscars with it. Like, have John Stewart just introduce the clip. I don't care. Like, that's fine.

That works. I'll be a little feisty and say, Marion would be the one that I would try. I don't love Marion either. There are not some angels in your city. It's a bad movie. It's a terrible movie, I think. Yeah, I agree with you. No thank you life.

No thank you love. No thank you, Marying Cotier. She's been great otherwise. Yeah. If Marion Cotier did not win that Oscar, a major, major ripple effect would happen. I leave it to you, Joe. because I know you love these sort of scenarios. But like that

Oscar win really made her a star, not the movie, the Oscar win. And I don't know what would have happened to her and to Hollywood if it had it happened. But I think Kyle's right though in that like she doesn't get cast in as many of the movies. Right. That's the thing. Right. That's the thing. Even down to like

the Dardan movie. Like she's maybe not even cast in that. You know what I mean? she's maybe not even in, you know, even... Well, they do typically go with non-stars, so that's probably true. I almost said she would probably be the one that's nominated for nine, but if she's not an Oscar winner, she might not actually be cast in nine. Yep. They wouldn't, I mean, most of Hollywood wouldn't even know she spoke English and looked pretty, you know? That's not what she got nominated or won for.

She needed that acceptance speech where she's so lovely and so winning. That was her biggest credit at the time, not literally not. not the movie that she won for. She would just be a 9-11 truther that nobody's ever heard of before. Probably in some, you know, among many who are in that boat. Yeah. What if that meant that Ava Green got all of her roles? I mean, that's not implausible.

Mary and Cotillard would have started Penny Dreadful. Well, and... I think that's fine. I think that works. That's an interesting tradeoff. You guys are maybe like making my pitch for my next. a vulture article for me. So thank you.

There you go. Please see that through. Fantastic. Thank you, boys. Thank you. So, okay, so can't talk about Nicole Kidman in this movie without talking about what so many of the reviews

for this movie. The reviews for this movie were more negative than positive. A lot of it was about the unlikeability of the characters, but it was also often focused on Nicole Kidman's face. And in particular, this was the movie that became the flashpoint for Nicole Kidman has had too much, whether it's plastic surgery or Botox. At the time, she had been quoted in a couple

of places, I think, saying, like, I would never get plastic surgery. And I think that's one of those sort of Hollywood doublespeak things where they're like, I don't think Botox is plastic surgery. You know what I mean? Like, I am going to say this thing, and I'm going to believe that it is true. and because in my head, Botox doesn't count. But, like, obviously she had... There had been injectables and whatever happening going on through the years. This was the movie that everybody decided was the flashpoint of it. I think because it's a character drama,

and so there are sort of less kind of bells and whistles to deal with it. But also, like, these things, like, this was probably a very sort of, like, freshly be-stung, you know, the era for her, you know, lips, let's say, or whatever. But, like, there was so much attention put on it that... It's absurd to pin it on this movie, too, because, like, do you really think this is not to be like,

well, she did it for the character? That's not what I'm saying. But, like, this is a character that would make sense that their face would look like that from Botox. So, why are you pinning it on this movie? I honestly find it so wild to go back and watch this and remember those reviews. And, I mean, some of them really,

went into, there's a Stephanie Zaharick Salon review that basically makes Kidman's face its whole thesis because faces have gotten so much more extreme in the interim that when I went back and rewatched it for this podcast, I was like, oh, it's nice. Her face is like

not too bad in this at all. But no, it was then shocking enough that multiple critics wrote about it. Well, and she's sort of the, like, of course this would be a discussion for an actress of this caliber because, you know, I think one of the sort of things that doesn't get commented on as much, especially now that so many movies are seen at home on smaller screens. I know that everybody who, you know, sticks up for the streaming revolution likes to imagine that everybody at home has these, like, giant full, like, wall with televisions or whatever and not all watching it on just, like, regular small screens.

Anyway, one thing that we don't really think about as much is that, like, movie stars are meant to have their faces just giant on, like, as big of a screen as possible and right in your face. And that is not how we experience most people, right? Like, that is a, that movie stars' faces are this kind of, in a way, commodity or even just like an obvious. of art in and of themselves. Do you know what I mean? And they are meant to be seen. The biggest movie stars are sort of seen with just these, you know, larger than life, literally, projections of their faces. And so that terrain becomes weirdly, uncomfortably fraught when all of a sudden we decide that, like, oh, the state of Nicole Kidman's Botox injections is a thing that we need to discuss right we need to like debate or make the topic of reviews and whatnot um and it's just really

particular of like that strata of celebrity that strata of movie star i will say not even celebrity i don't know it's weird yeah i am not saying either way i am not making a value judgment Nicole can do what she wants but I do remember that being like very very prominent at the moment to the point where

it has to be more distracting in something like the invasion which granted is not a good movie and we're talking about a good movie I don't understand how it's not more distracting in something like that than it is in this

well I think there's so much more to look at in the invasion like literally like so much else is going on to dog on too Yes, also that. Whereas I think, like, this is a movie where you are just, like, laser focused on, even though this movie doesn't really, it doesn't have a ton of, like, lingering close-ups or anything like that. You don't have any sort of scene where, like, there's a lot of scenes that just sort of take place where, like, she's looking away from a character. And, like, they're, I'm thinking of the scene where it's her and Claude sort of out on the back porch or something like that. The one where she's the most mean to him, where she's the most mean to him, where, she's like, Pauline says she's so disappointed in you. You never help out. You never pitch in.

And also, you're, what does she say? Like, you've become, oh, what does she say? She says something about his, like, demeanor or whatever that, like, shit. I'm not going to remember these that. But just, like, incredibly, like, mean and cutting way of saying something about this kid. And the way it's filmed, like, you don't really see her face saying these things. They're both sort of facing away from the camera. You only sort of see the sides of their faces.

It's not really a movie that trucks in, like, full-on close-ups of her face, and yet it still asks you to sort of regard her in this character kind of constantly. I think we're also just so used to Botox now, you know, for better or for worse. Like, we see it so often on Instagram, if not actual Botox, the appearance of such with filters. and we just do, we're used to it with television actresses, certainly, you know, to the point where, and I mean, please don't come after me, Little Monsters, I loved Lady Gaga in Star is Born. That was one of my favorite performances of that year, but that's not a character who should have Botox or, you know, much access to it.

She's very Botoxed in it. She's expressive in other ways, certainly with her voice. I've often thought, like, maybe in some weird ways, actresses have. have become better actresses or at least more agile actresses vocally because they've got to come up with other ways to express what they would normally express on their face. Well, this is your next book, Kyle. Maybe if that whole thing of like, you know,

one hand is tied behind your back. So you've got to come up with a more creative, you know, way to get your punch across. Yeah. But yeah, I don't know. I mean, it's, yeah, again, truly wild to go back and revisit it because I thought this is the most natural I've seen her quite some time.

Yeah, yeah, I think that's true. I wrote it down. We don't have to talk about it too much, because I do, I kind of bag on the Alliance of Women Film Journalists probably more than I should, but the rewards are always just seemed a little silly to me. This movie won, movie you wanted to love, but just couldn't from the Alliance of Women Film Journalists, which...

In a lineup of a lot of movies we've covered. Wait, so what are the other... You're looking at it right now? I am not looking at it. only other movie that they also nominated in this category this year Evening. Oh! Well, that I understand. I mean, not wrong. I did want to love that movie. Evening, Reservation Road.

Covered it. And I guess we're forced to cover this movie now. Georgia Rule. Yes. Now that it's, yes, this counts as awards buzz. Yes, Georgia Rule. Wow. What a lineup. What a moment. Yeah, what are some of their other. the sort of odd categories that year I don't know

what am I even looking at I'm looking at the right one Jennifer Jason Lee was Indy Spirit nominated for the movie kind of odd that she's the only nomination yes yeah if well the indie spirits are

always sort of odd that way and that like you see one nomination for a movie and you're like well this was clearly eligible and yet like you didn't find any other place to put in it like they are kind of no choice for nominating a movie in every category, but maybe the one you feel like is the most obvious.

Like, if you liked Margot with The Wedding enough, kind of wild that you wouldn't nominate Nicole Kinman. And yet, she loses out to Cape Blanchett in I'm Not There, nominated alongside Anna Kendrick and Rocket Science, a movie that I did like. She plays a competitive debate student in that. I would never believe Anna Kendrick being cast as a game. Perfect. It's perfect casting. It absolutely capitalizes on her whole vibe in a really, in a really good way. Marissa Tomey and Before the Devil Knows You're Dead. And then Tamara Podemsky in a movie called Four Sheets to the Wind, that like classic indie spirit nomination and that I did not see this movie nor hear about it. But I'm glad that they are the ones throwing it some attention. Very good. An interesting lineup. I probably would have. voted for Jennifer Jason Lee.

Not that I don't like Cape Blanchard, and I'm not there. But, like, I probably would have voted of the ones that I've seen. I probably would have voted for Jennifer. Good for her. Any other odds and ends before we transfer into the I&B game? Kyle, anything else you want to say about Margot the wedding? I do love the book reading scene, not just because I saw it lip synced quite impeccably. But it's just, it's, you know, we talk about certain, you know, one scene

performances that Nicole Kidman has given, obviously, the opera scene from birth, but truly look up, even if you're just going to watch one thing from Marco at the wedding, look up the book reading scene where she is confronted with a theory that she's much like her hated dad in public while doing a book reading. And she so does not know how to respond to that. I mean, you know how she would respond to it if it were in private. She would lash out at whoever it said it. But since she can't do it on the stage, she begins to free associate in a way that is hilariously crazed

and just spins more and more out of control. It's some of the best acting I think she's ever done. I had to have our refrigerator repaired the other day at our apartment in Manhattan. And I was alone with this guy. I think he was Puerto Rican. He was sent over by Whirlpool, who I think it is, makes our fridge. Although he did say that he worked for an independent organization at Whirlpool subcontracts.

I think he was really. There was an anger in him. suddenly, suddenly I became afraid for my life. I called Jim at NYU, and I asked him to come home. I think it was Frigdair who made our friend. Yeah, it's really something. I would agree. It's a standout scene.

I'm sort of looking at my notes. I jotted down the part where, Jack Black talks about how he hates Bono, his theory that there are only a finite number of people who get success in this world and Bono and what's his name? Dick. Dick Coosman are, you know, they're taking up space that other people can have, essentially, which feels like a Noah Bomback diary entry, just sort of, you know, put on the page there. Also, just the fact I'm so mired in this. current years awards race obviously that I'm like oh okay so the grandpa from belfast is licking lucile ball's neck in this movie that's interesting did not really expect that to happen in this award season and yet here we are also best supporting inanimate object goes to margot's night guard in this movie I was going to say the tree well oh god the tree climbing scene can we talk about that for a second the tree climbing scene to me on this rewatch I was like this is

like the spiritual sibling of the knife scene in a marriage story, which also is incredibly funny to me. Yeah. And just like a perfect observation on Margot in a way that's like, of course. Not like the caustic things because she just charges into climbing up this tree with absolutely no idea how to get out of that situation. Well, it's great because it comes Right after that scene I described where Margo says to Pauline, have you ever noticed how Pauline sometimes can't make eye contact? And it's so mean. And you can see Pauline looking for a way to kind of turn it on Margo by essentially goading her into something that she's apparently good at, which is when she was younger, she used to climb a tree. And she obviously does not want to climb the tree. But Pauline very effectively wedges her into a situation where she can't not climb the tree to prove that she can do it. it. And then once she's up there, she's utterly stuck, which, you know, is a great metaphor for just Marco in general. Well, and you mentioned the great editing in this movie. That's another great edit where all of a sudden Pauline just says to Claw, he's like, what happened? What's

going on? She goes, she's stuck. And then they cut right to the firemen up on the ladder trying to rescue her. It's a great cut. It's really very funny. Yeah, very good movie. I would also say, like, looping back to the thing about the ending of this movie, Which, like, I don't think that this is just a purely, like, cruel, mean-spirited movie that there is actually, like, this kind of, like, I don't want to say heart, because, A, it sounds fucking cheap, but it's, like, that's not exactly what it is. Yeah. But, like, it's this setup where Margot is sending her son away without even telling him, without even having, like, the decency to tell him that this divorce is happening. Sending him away to his father, he wants to know what's going on in. he also wants to be with his mother and then she ends up chasing the bus to like get to be with

her son which is a very like movie set up where it's like no go be with your son go be the best version of yourself but actually what this movie has like been setting up all along is like that is a curse for that child that is a horrible thing that's happening so it's like the thing that you want to happen is sometimes the absolutely the very worst thing uh for someone to be in in this situation. Well, once she gets on that bus, isn't she like, did you see me chasing you? Yes. Like, she's very exhilarated by it, but she also wants credit.

Very Angelina negotiating for Rice on Survivor. Oh, my God. That's my favorite thing that's ever been said on this podcast. You're absolutely not wrong. Angelina negotiating for Rice on Survivor should have been an Oscar short film entry. Like, they should have just, like, cut it just to that scene and released it as a, as a, a live action short, it would have wanted. I think we know who the third sister is now.

It's usually Nick Elyle from Survivor to Scalaya. That's perfect. That's perfect. I was also going to say about Claude. Claude present day, that character. Gay, murderer, or both? Yeah, does he grow up to be, you know, a Cody Smith-McPhee figure? He's so sensitive, though. He's so sweet, which makes him such a pin cushion for his mom.

Yeah. That I think just gay, not murder. Okay. Chris, where are you? Gay murderer influencer. Wait, influencer of other murderers? Now, and you tell me. I like the idea that like murderer influencer, like he's like other murderers, like follow him on Instagram. Well, he's reformed.

He killed someone. Right. His mother. But he got a book deal. Hulu miniseries. It's all like self-help and CBD. Yeah. Yeah, CBD.

That's, yes, pedal CBD for a living. Perfect. All right. Chris, do you want to explain to our listeners what the IMDB game is before we jump into it? Yeah, absolutely. Every week we end our episodes with the IMDB game where we challenge each other with an actor or actress to try to guess the top four titles that IMDB says they are most known for. If any of those titles are television, voice-only performances, or non-acting credits,

we'll mention that up front. After two wrong guesses, we get the remaining titles release years as a clue. And if that's not enough, it just becomes a free-for-all of hints, veiled insults, psychosis, armchair, therapist. Perfect, perfect. All right, Kyle, as our guest, you get the choice of who you would like to, whether you would like to start off by either giving a clue or guessing a clue, and then which one of us would you like to give or guess from? I'll give to Chris. All right, so you'll give to Chris, Chris will give to me, and then I will give to you. All right, so why don't you, do you want to start off giving to Chris?

Yes. All right, go for it. I mean, somehow, you've never done her, so maybe we should just go for the obvious one. Nicole Kidman. We've never done Nicole Kidman. God. And, you know, we normally don't do it if they're in the movie, but like, I didn't even pull up her page because it's like, you know, it's all in the brain. Yeah, right, exactly.

But I think that her known fours are interested. All right. I think it's going to be difficult because I do wonder, honestly, and this will be a crime against me specifically, but I do wonder if her Oscar win is going to be in there or not. I'm going to guess, well, wait, is there any TV? No TV. Good. This is a good thing.

I mean, you would think big little lies could be. be in there, but it ain't. Mulan Rouge. Mulan Rouge is there. Number one, in fact. No, I'm just gonna... Her Oscar wins there, the hours. The hours is there.

Now, suffer. This is gonna be annoying, but Paddington. Nope. Okay, good. And then be a lot. on that the others nope

okay so I get my ears I have 2010 and 2003 for you okay 2010 is rabbit hole yes which I never would have expected to be there justice for rabbit hole

good movie low key one of my favorite has to be huh I said low key one of my favorite Kidman performances but I was interrupting you getting into your flow so I'm sorry.

No, you're totally fine. Interrupt on this podcast, never. O3 is Cold Mountain. No, it isn't. Oh, then it has to be, well, because Dogville didn't open in the States until 2004, I bet it's Dogfville. No, it's fur. No, sorry, you're right. It's Dogfell.

Wow, that is an interesting known-for for her. Yeah, she has much bigger known-for, as you would expect all four to be, you know, pretty significant entries for it to be rabbit hole in Dogfield that really surprised me. I would have expected Big Little Lies because she won every award under the sun so it's like the algorithm of it all. Justice for Dr. Chase Meridian.

I'm saying. The biggest movie of the 90s basically. Listen, I guess I had to keep it the other day and I went on a full on rant about Dr. Chase Meridian. Everybody who's saying that the Batman is the sexiest Batman, it's like literally Nicole Kimman was taking off her clothes, throwing

herself at Batman. Come on. It's true. We used to be a proper country. She's named after a credit card. Yes. And a line of longitude. Like, come on. Like, how many people get that? Yeah, yeah, exactly. All right. Listen, Madonna said satin sheets are very romantic, but we didn't have photo evidence until Batman forever. Dr. Chase Meridian is one of those things like Dr. Christmas Jones, played by Denise Richards, where it's just like a doctor character that, a 10-year-old would make up. Dr. Chase Meridian is

if I were ever to run like an underground nightclub or whatever and you had to name, say a password to get in the door, that would be the password to get in. I would just say, I'm here to see Dr. Chase Meridian. It does flow off the tongue. It really does. Yes, exactly. You would have the people who think they have the code,

but like you know that they got it from someone who like leaked it online and they would just say Chase Meridian. I know, yes. But instead of Dr. Chaseman. And I'd say, you get out of here. Yeah, exactly. All right, Joseph.

Yes. For you, I went into the cast list of Noah Bomback's upcoming white noise to pull for you none other than Mr. Don Cheadle. Chris, God damn it. That was the one that I had picked. Okay, good for you, because I have pulled multiple options. Okay. I'll still give mine to Kyle because he hasn't already looked at this one yet, but I definitely have.

That's funny. Well, while Kyle stews on what Don Cheadle could have and is known for. For you, I have also pulled Andre 3000, also known as Andre Benjamin. All right. And they're all. Um, acting, movie acting credits? All movies. All with character names.

And everything. That he played. Four brothers. Four brothers. Famously one of the movies where everyone on the poster has it and they're known for. It's weird. And yes. Uh, all right.

All right. Um, I'm going to stumble on the title of this movie. But, um, is it, it's the Jimmy Hendrix movie. Is it like Jimmy All Is Full of Love or something like that? Incorrect. okay but is that the title i'll take that i'll take the title is always by my side all is by my side all is full of love is bork never mind oh the absolute queerest way to guess the title of that movie is uh saying all's full of love okay um idle wild yes idle wild correct all right well i've maybe now reached the end of the movies that i definitely know andre three thousand is in um

he's one of those guys who like he could have been in Tomorrowland and I just don't remember it like that that strata of a movie where he's like seventh build and something Andre 3000

103 3000 so he gets famous around like crossover famous around like the late mid to late aughts right that's around when four brothers is um Okay, I'm going to guess.

Oh, shoot. Isn't he in a Guy Ritchie movie? Can't really tell you yet, but... Rock and Rolla? Incorrect. Not rock and roller. The next two that you haven't cast yet are also 2005, same year as Four Brothers. So the era that you are thinking of. Right.

This Guy Ritchie movie has definitely shown up on somebody else's known for. Part of the reason I pulled it for you was because you tortured me with this movie on somebody else's. I remember this movie only for that. So it is a guy Ritchie movie just not rock and roll? Correct. Is it Revolver? It is Revolver. Okay.

Okay. The other 2005 movie on Andre Benjamin's known for is the sequel to a movie we have covered on our podcast. Oh. Kind of a forgotten sequel. Okay. For good reason, but. Now, all right. Obviously, movies that we've done that got sequels Captain Corelli's ukulele,

the sequel to Captain Corelli's Mandolin Well, that's why Andre Benjamin's in it Because he's a musician Right, right? He plays Captain Corelli's ukulele. Right, he does play

The title ukulele, yes. Movies that we've done that have gotten sequels The only recurring cast member in this movie is the lead star. Oh. Were they like recasts? Or they just, like, they put him in a whole new situation. It's this character in a whole different situation.

I shouldn't be, I shouldn't assume that it's the man. In the original, the character was in one industry, and in this movie, he goes to a different industry. Oh, oh, it's Be Cool, the sequel to Get Shorty. Oh, wow. Yeah. Completely forgotten. He's what? He's a, he's now fully a producer in the second one.

Isn't The Rock Gay in it? That I forget. Also, I lied. Danny DeVito is in this movie. Okay. The titular Shorty from the first one. All right. The filmography of Christina Milian.

Well pivoted, Chris, that we haven't chosen the same person in a while. I always feel like I'm surprised that doesn't happen more often to us. I always pull a couple options. Just in case. All right. So, Kyle, you've had some extra time to marinate on this. But, yes, Don Cheadle, one of the many stars in Nobombeck's upcoming white noise. And I leave it to you to try and guess is known for it.

I believe there is no television, no voice work. Okay, good. Well, so this one, four came to mind immediately. However, he's been in many Marvel movies, and that could fuck things up. But I'm going to go with his Oscar successes first, which Crash. Crash, correct. Okay, and then Hotel Rwanda. Correct.

Okay. I'm going to guess Oceans 11. Incorrect, strike one. Oh. Boogie Knights? Incorrect, strike two. All right, so your remaining years are 2011. 2011, would that be Iron Man 2?

No, it is not. I believe Iron Man 2 is 22. Oh, well, now I know. Shoot. What else? I'll help you out with a hint. There's no Marvel here. There's no Marvel.

Okay, good to know. Would we consider him to be the stars of these movies or a significant supporting player? Well, one... 2011, he's second build. Yes. And he is part of a starry ensemble of 2000. Yes. In 2011?

Wait, would that be like Oceans 13? No, the starry ensemble is 2000. 2011, he's second build behind sort of the lead of the movie. That lead in the 2011 movie got a Golden Globe nomination. But kind of nothing else in that season, or at least nothing more prominent than that. I'm drawing a blank. Wait, so there are no more oceans. No, no oceans, no marbles.

Other starry ensemble. Oh, was he in traffic? Yes. Was that one? Yes, traffic is one of them. So you've gotten three of the four. Okay, sure. So it's just the 2011 one.

Yes. Wow, I'm going to need more, unfortunately. Okay, like I said, co-star was a Golden Globe nominee. One of those Golden Globe nominees is where you look and you're like, that's a movie? That's every Golden Globe nominee. So I'm guessing that it's maybe in the comedy musical category, since it has its fair share of those.

Yes. I've not seen this movie. I'm trying to... I'm not sure... The writer-director of this movie is the brother... Yes. ...of a somewhat reviled but well-reviewed recent best picture frontrunner.

Oh my god. Not American. Specific. Yeah. The brother of a, the writer-director of a reviled recent best picture front-runner. They're both kind of playwright slash filmmakers. Oh, McDonough. Oh, which one was Don Cheadle in? Shoot.

Oh, was it, um, was it the one? Seven Psychopaths? No, it's not a Martin McDonough movie. It's one of the brothers movies. John Michael McDonough. Yes. I haven't seen all of his shit. I don't know.

The star of this movie was the star of one of Martin McDonough's. I would say best movies, if not his actual best, like maybe his actual best. So in Bruges? Yes. Who's the star of that? Colin? Well, the other star of that. Who else was the other one in Bruges?

The sort of focal, the focal character. The, you're, you know, protect. Yeah, it's not coming to me what Don Cheadle was in. Why is this on his known for? Is this a good known for a movie? It's bizarre. No, it's one of the classic, like, I can't believe this is on a known for. I believe it's also on Brendan Gleek.

Oh, well, I just. Yeah, Brendan Gleason. Yeah, yeah, Brendan Gleason, but I'm still not getting there from it. I'm drawing a blank. You know, this is why I hate games. I hate what it does to me. It is called the guard. Oh, my God.

I've not seen it. Chris, have you seen the guard? I have not seen the guard. All right, so none of us have seen the guard, so we don't acknowledge this movie. Yeah, no, I haven't seen it either. I don't think. So apparently, go fuck yourself, Boogie Nights. Go fuck yourself all of Marvel.

Go fuck yourself Golden Palace, the television series that Don Cheadle was on. Apparently, you're all like House of Lies, which he got like 8 billion Emmy nominations for that Showtime series. All of it's less prominent than The Guard. Wildness. There we go. Kyle, once again, thank you so, so much for joining us on this episode. Really fantastic to have you here. Thank you for bringing Margo back into our lives for better or for far more toxic.

But we really appreciate it. We had a great talk. Let the listeners know where they can buy your book because they should. I mean, I think you can basically buy it anywhere you buy fine books. You can buy it on Amazon or whatnot at local bookstores. Matt Zoller Sites has an online bookstore where I sent in a whole bunch of signed copies. if you want a signed version of the book. A great option.

Get to Googling. We will put a link on our Tumblr page. Yes. Oh, great, good. Kyle, just you have very, very striking and beautiful eyes, and please don't, listeners, don't spray anything into them if you see Kyle of the loyal. Be considerate of your Oscar pundits and authors that sometimes they don't like shit pink sprayed in their eye. That's stressed me out so much, Kyle.

It's going to stay with me for a while. It really is. oh well it was it was pure adrenaline uh and hey you did witness him so i guess i accomplished yes quite physically i witnessed it indeed all right chris file where can the listeners find you in your stuff you can find me on letterbox and twitter at chris v file that's f e i l all right i'm on twitter at joe read read i'm also on letterboxed as joe read kyle do you want people to follow you on twitter or is that a thing that yeah follow me on twitter that's fine don't follow me on Instagram or anywhere else. I'm not on letterbox.

People say, actually, a lot of people have said when they come and sign the book, they're like, do you have a letterbox? And I'm like, no, I get paid to write about movies. I'm not going to do any more freelance work in that regard than I need to these days. I'm busy. Here I am giving it away for free. Well, many too. Yeah. But yes, follow me on Twitter. I'll try to make it fun. What is your Twitter handle? My Twitter handle is Kyle Buchanan If you're following me in April

I really wonder if I'll be tweeting at all Or if I'll be completely I was going to say I hope you have a vacation lined up very soon And you know I try to not tweet more than what Two or three times a day Was it Demi Adjuebe

Who said once that you should treat Twitter Like you get one tweet a day And now of course he doesn't even tweet at all But I kind of took that to heart No, it's smart. Obviously, during Oscar season, especially in Oscar season, when you have a book coming out, you are obligated to tweet far more. But at least I try to make it fun. Not drawing anybody into any feuds.

Coming with the jokes. Do you see how these people are treating me? You say every week on Twitter. All right, we would like to thank Kyle Cummings for his fantastic artwork and Dave Gonzalez and Gavin Meveas for their technical guidance. Please remember to rate, like, and review us on Spotify, Apple. podcasts. Google Play, Stitcher, wherever else you get podcasts. A five-star review in particular really helps us out with Apple Podcasts visibility. So quit being resentful of Bono's success and write us a nice review, won't you? That is all for this week, but we hope you'll be back next week

for more buzz. Thank you.