This Had Oscar Buzz - 191 – The Zookeeper’s Wife

Episode Date: April 25, 2022

This week, we are returning to the work of the recent Academy Award winner Jessica Chastain. In 2017, the actress headlined the adaptation of the popular non-fiction book The Zookeeper’s Wife, detailing Antonina Zabinska and her husband Jan’s efforts to help Polish Jews escape the Nazis by hiding them within the Warsaw Zoo. Directed by … Continue reading "191 – The Zookeeper’s Wife"

Uh-oh, wrong house. No, the right house. No, I didn't get that! We want to talk to Marilynne Heck. Maybe that's why I love animals so much. You look in their eyes. Can't you know exactly what's in their hearts? What have you been up to in your little zoo?

Hello and welcome to the This Had Oscar Buzz podcast, the only podcast that's a bit of a rattle. Every week on This Had Oscar Buzz we'll be talking about a different movie that once upon a time had Lofty Academy Award aspirations, But for some reason or another, it all went wrong. The Oscar hopes died, and we are here to perform the autopsy. I'm your host, Joe Reed. I'm here, as always, with the person who taught my son to say Hitler is kaput. Chris Fyle. Hello, Chris.

Not you and your little zoo, Joe Reed. We need to have the Daniel Brule conversation. And the Daniel Brule conversation, and we'll get into it probably later in this episode. But the basic gist of the Daniel Brul conversation is, what must it be like to have your whole vibe be we should cast him as a Nazi like okay so the last time we talked about Daniel Brule was woman in gold

and I think we expressed our incredulousness that Daniel Brul does not play a Nazi in woman and gold very much the opposite and this movie is like we're we're going through a journey like a tonal fade because the movie starts out and it's like oh maybe he's not a Nazi nope he's a Nazi right he's the not this this movie coming and it comes about four years after Rush but so in Rush he plays it's a very very modern context it has nothing to

do with World War II or the Holocaust at all he plays a race car driver stepping so far out of his you know assumed element and he gets so close to getting an Oscar nomination in Best Supporting Actor and then it doesn't happen and then I know that this was not the narrative but in my mind, it's like, well, now he's going to fall back on Nazi roles. Now it's just like back to the warm embrace of the tried and true. And I mean, he's best known, probably for most people still, probably best known for his role in Inglorious Bastards, where he plays literally like the epitome of the Nazi, right? Where he's held up as the Nazi ideal. That's his whole role in that film. So he's not like head Nazi in the movie.

like he he's he's the like the poster boy gross finger quotes war hero for the nazis right he's the nazi that they want to like hold up and be like wouldn't you all want to be like this nazi like that's daniel brule and in glorious but he's not like boss nazi no he's not boss nazi although boss nazi would be an amazing video game character i'm not quite sure in what kind of context maybe even something this is why i don't play video game no but i'm thinking like not in like a, in what you're normal, like, I've got a gun and I'm running through a fortress killing Nazis, but in like a- Oh, right, and you've got to kill the boss. But like, in like a Mike Tyson's punchout kind of thing. Remember, I'm going to assume you didn't play Mike Tyson's punchout as a kid when you were growing up, but- No, I did Mortal Kombat, though. Okay, Mortal Kombat. Is that like a fighting game? Yes. So the thing with Mike Tyson's punchout was, it was essentially you were this little teeny tiny little boxer who like you know the classic you know not really like a wimpy guy but he was like he was a little guy he was a little guy

and so in every round you would like level up and play and and have to fight these like successively harder fighters and almost every one of them was some kind of like ethnic stereotype or whenever it would be like the Italian guy was like Don Flamenco and um this sounds a lot like Shaq Fu do you remember Shaq Fu? I remember of Shaq Fu um but I didn't play shack fu but like so what I say I said the Spanish guy was Don Flamenco and the the Japanese guy was Piston Honda and um the there was a German guy who was this very sort of like Kaiser von whatever and um sure every single one of them was like the most like And so I feel like boss Nazi would be like the ultimate level of that.

We're like just before you fight Mike Tyson, you fight boss Nazi, and you got to get past boss Nazi. But poor Daniel Brule, like we just associate him with playing Nazis. Nikki Lauda could have changed that. Maybe the Oscar nomination should have happened. I know. Well, I mean, for as much as I was sort of like, you know, mezzo mezzo on, on, uh, on, on, uh, on, on, uh, on that's what that's sort of yeah like I liked his performance in it and I actually like Chris Hemsworth's performance in it as well but the movie itself I was like okay but like I

was kind of writing for that brutal nomination that would have been cute especially because the alternative was among I mean yeah like the the sort of insurgent there was Jonah Hill and the Wolf of Wall Street which was a nomination that I did not care for and And then even, like, Bradley Cooper in American Hustle, my whole thing about American Hustle is you can, like, one performance in it, and mine was, uh, uh, just like you can like one Scientologist. Right. Essentially, yes, yes. You can like one performance in American Hustle. American Hustle is Scientology. Which isn't to say that like, I mean, whatever, my complicated feelings on Jennifer Lawrence and in American Hustle are a longer discussion than we can probably afford to have in this podcast, um, especially when we're going off of Daniel Burel. Point is, yes, it would have been a nice Oscar nomination for him, and it might have then meant a more variety of roles than going back and playing a Nazi in this. He's a dastardly sort in this.

He's a mustache twirler, this guy. To maybe not the detriment of the movie, but like maybe a better movie. I'm not saying that like the Nazi villain has to be like nuanced or whatever, but there is something very. broad about that character. I mean, it's a broad movie. I think some of it probably goes to the particulars of this story, which is partly based, in fact. Sure.

That, you know, the particulars of this story kind of limit the actual interaction with the Nazis, in that, like, it kind of falls all to this one guy to represent the entire. higher brutality and violence and scheming of the Nazis. And again, it's just funny that once again, that this falls upon the shoulders of Daniel Brule. Like, I was trying to think of earlier, like, what other actors are so, like, even like, we've talked about Christoph Waltz a bunch on this podcast, and not too long ago when we did our Water for Elephants, and talking about how just, like, he really got pigeonholed

playing these kind of bad husband types or and obviously the Nazi he played in Inglorious Bastards was the thing that broke him through in the United States but even Christoph Waltz hasn't been

so tied to his like Nazi role right? I was thinking of somebody like Ray Feinz kind of becomes known to American audiences via Schindler's list. He's nominated for the Oscar. He does so well playing such an evil, terrible character

in Schindler's list that he becomes almost improbably, like from that, becomes a movie star in some ways. He's never been like an A-list blockbuster star, but he's like a leading man in Hollywood consistently and remains to be. And it's funny that like even Ray Fines, who his career has gone from being defined by Nazi and Schindler's List to then Voldemort, who is like magic's version of Hitler, to, you know what I mean? And like, even that, even, and I was trying to think of like, even that he was able to sort of, he's been able to play a lot of different types of roles besides just that. He's been able to play sort of romantic leads in the English, well, I guess the English patient.

He's also sort of Nazi sympathizer, right? isn't that the whole thing about his character? And anyway, anyway, my point being, let Daniel Bruill spread his wings, is sort of what I'm saying. I mean, Daniel Broll, at least, I mean, I guess we should also qualify this with two American audiences. Daniel Broll is also in the MCU. Don't ask me how he's in the MCU, couldn't tell you. But mostly known to...

I mean, playing a very sort of like dastardly villain with a, you know... Yes, anyway. Nazi codedness? Well, I mean... here's my chicken or the egg thing. Is his character in the MCU Nazi-coded, or do we read that into it because he's being played by Daniel Brule? Like, there's a real, you know, cause and effect kind of a thing.

I don't know enough about that character. His character's name is Helmut Zemo, and the problem with him in, he's in Captain America Civil War, and there's so much else going on in Captain America's Civil War that even though he is like the prime mover of, like, what causes the conflict, he's so easily forgotten because it's like all... It's not about the villain. Right.

It's all about like the Avengers fighting each other. So, but anyway. Daniel Brule specifically though, it's more like if Christoph Waltz was like the bad husband to only female painters or like female creatives. Right. Because Daniel Brule is only a Nazi adjacent to various cultural institutions. he's adjacent to the cinema and glorious bastards and in here zoos next he will play a nazi um at the opera i don't know literature right a nazi at the uh at the um observatory or something like that right

he's uh yes yes yes exactly yeah all right so this is our naz meteorologists this is our way we've said the word Nazi far too many times. We really have. We're talking about the zookeeper's life. Chris, it's not like Beetlejuice. It's not like if we say it a certain number of times like someone will appear in our living rooms. It's not like tank bomb on a plane. Or that, yeah, exactly. It's not like Candyman or whatever. Like, we'll be fine. Um, uh, anyway, welcome to our episode on the Zookeeper's Life. Huh. Not a bad movie. Not a great movie,

but not, you're right. It's, it could be worse, could be better. And I think that's probably the thing that ultimately dams it is it didn't stand out in any way, and it needed to given when in the calendar it was opening and I want to have a conversation at some point in this episode about the Oscars and

movies about the Holocaust and whether there is a sense that and this risks being sort of like accidentally and delicate and I certainly don't want to do that but like whether there's a sense of

do you now have to be like doing something incredibly remarkable making a movie about the Holocaust because there have been so many movies about the Holocaust that have been Oscar recognized I think it's maybe that we as

people who you know pay attention or predict or prognosticators need to maybe kind of let this go as a theme, but it's hard to do that when Oscar kind of doesn't either. Because you can definitely see, especially given the literary success of the book that the movie eventually was adapted from, but like you can see a version where this movie is like bumped up to a December release if the movie's better, you know, or they thought they could get something from it, but,

you know so the zookeeper's wife 2017 and like very much a lost in the shuffle kind of a movie where I feel like this was a movie that we sort of saw coming down the pike forever and because Jessica Chastain at that point was a two-time Oscar nominee we were looking forward to it because it had some pedigree it was based on a novel it was you know had this sort of important subject matter was based on a true story all of these elements that tend to work for the Oscars And despite the fact that by this point, Nikki Caro's career had sort of like, you know, gone ups and downs and whatever. But you can't deny that she had two best actress nominees in the span of three years at one point. You know what I mean?

Between Keisha Castle Hughes for Whale Rider and then Charlie's Theron for North Country. And so it's tough to sort of file that away and not have it in the back of your mind just like, well, you know, she could pull it off again. And so there was some spotlight on the Zookeeper's Wife as it was arriving. And I think by the time it released at the end of March in 2017, we kind of realized that, like, well, this is not where you launch a pedigreed movie like this, if they have too many plans on it for it to be a big Oscar movie. So it just kind of released very quietly, and it didn't feel like a whole lot of people saw it, and it didn't feel like a whole lot of people talked about it. By the end of that year, Jessica Chastain had been in Molly's games. So if you were talking about Jessica Chastain in the vein of awards, you were talking about her related to another movie.

Mm-hmm. So what to do. What to do that, Chris, with the Zootheas. We're talking about very early Oscar buzz when we talk about this movie. Yes, exactly, exactly right. So there's some interesting things to talk about. Certainly, I think we would like to get into the Jessica Chastain thing. We haven't really talked about her two terrible.

much on this podcast. Famously, we've done two episodes with a friend and former guest, Kevin O'Kee. That's true. We should apologize to Kevin that we're moving on with the Jessica Chastain movie without him for the first time. Yeah, we've done Miss Sloan,

the classic in the Nutella canon and most violent gear. And now... Classic in the nail canon. Right, fingernail. Classic fingernail cinema. the most violent year.

And so now we are on to the zookeeper's wife. And I think talking about Jessica Chastain now, she's just won the Oscar for Best Actress, I definitely want to get into that. And hers is a really fascinating career arc. It's not the kind of career arc you see very much. It's not a classic, you know, pattern, really. She goes from like zero to being in 20 movies.

and then she gets two Oscar nominations back to back, and then it's weird that she didn't get nominated at all between Zero Dark 30 and Eyes of Tammy Faye, because it feels like she's been sort of like perpetually on long list. Sixth place. Right, right, exactly, like sixth through tenth place or whatever. And is constantly, we have a wealth of options for this had Oscar buzz movies for Jessica Chastain. And we might be getting a wealth more now that she's a winner, and we know what happens after. I definitely.

Like, you look at Nicole Kidman after Nicole Kidman won, you know, that's like kind of our bread and butter. Yep, yep. I mean, all hopes for Jessica Chastain's output in the future, but, you know. But we'll get into all of that on the other side of the plot description. I feel like we should move right along. And, Chris, you are going to be the one doing the plot description for this. I feel like it has been a solid two months since I've done one of these because, again, it's only our second episode we're recording after the Oscars because we backlogged so much and we're getting ready to do our main miniseries and we'll be kind of doing that in a burst. It's been fun to read our mentions and how everybody's sort of enjoying our little pre-taped episodes that we recorded before the Oscars where we were pretending to react to the.

Oscars. And oh my God, I can't believe that happened. And it turns out that I can't believe that happened was the appropriate reaction to the Oscars this year. So yes, listeners. And I can't believe that happened is about as much as I want to say about it. We do not have to discuss it. We can move right along. Although I can't believe that happened kind of does apply to Jessica Chastain winning for the eyes of Tammy Faye, depending on when in the season you would be talking about the possibility. I definitely want to talk about that because you and I haven't even had this conversation. No, we haven't. That's the thing.

I can't believe it that happened kind of, I mean, in a way that I've never even seen, even more so than like the best picture snafu from a few years ago, like overrode everything. And that like this year's Oscars is going to be interesting to unpack in the future, mostly because I think the I can't believe that happened overshadowed what a horrendous ceremony it was but also you have all of these winners.

Yeah. I think I tweeted that moments after it happened on the Oscars was like good luck to anybody who won an Oscar tonight and who will win an Oscar tonight for being remembered because it's just it's absolutely going to get swallowed up by history by this like unprecedented

moment. All right but so we'll get into it. We'll get into all of it. We'll get into Nikki Caro. It'll be a time. All right. So, Chris, we are talking about... We're here to discuss a movie. We're here to discuss a film. It asks the question, what if there was a zookeeper's wife?

It does explore that on several levels. I have so many zoo questions that I'm not sure we're going to be able to definitively answer. Listen, we're a zoo podcast now. We're doing... We had a zoo at some point. No, yes. Yes, we will do that. Yes, we have not done that one yet. We bought a zoo. We will. We should. I don't know why we haven't done it yet. We should do it. All right. Yes, we are talking about the zookeeper's wife, 2017 film directed by Nikki Caro. It was written by Angela Workman, based on the novel by Diane Ackerman, starring Jessica Chastain, Johann Heldenberg, Daniel Bruill, cast of many others, premiered on March 31st, 2017, not exactly. prime Oscar material. And so here we are. Chris, I am going about to start my stopwatch

if you are ready for a 60-second plot description of the zookeeper's wife. Be gentle on me. It's my first one in a long time. All right. Limber up if you would like to stretch, if you would like to, I don't know, take... Rubber baby buggy bumpers. Protein shake or something like that before you start. All right. I have a tiger who's playing in the background. All right. Your time starts now. Antonina Zabinsky and her husband Yon run the Warsaw Zoo at the rise of the Third Reich. The Knights of invade Poland and forced the Polish Jews into the ghetto, also in turn

killing most of the animals in the zoo installing Let's Heck, Hitler's head zoologist as the overseer. The Zubinsky's quickly devised a plan to sneak Polish juice out of the ghetto and hide them on the grounds by convincing Heck to run the zoo as a pig farm, basically. Heck agrees, but also becomes really letterous towards Antonina. Yon is forced to work in a ghetto and uses his job to sneak people out before places.

them in safe houses. Meanwhile, Antonina derives a caring relationship with Ursula, a young woman who is one of the first people that they are hidden by the Zabinskis. In the ensuing years of the Holocaust, Heck continues to make advances on Antonina while the Zabinsky's orchestrated outgoing rescues, Jan joins the Warsaw uprising

and is believed to be killed. When Antonina later attempts to persuade Heck into revealing Yan's whereabouts, as the Nazis begin their retreat from Warsaw, he finally discovers the whole scheme, and there's a quasi-standoff in the zoo where we think Heck kills her son, but actually he doesn't. and then everyone flees Poland when the Nazis are defeated and Warsaw begins to be rebuilt.

Antonina returns to the zoo with the children and yay, Jan also returns alive and families reunited, having saved over 300 zoos in the process. I let you go long. Yes. Good. And that's time. Very, very ploddy for a movie that is kind of on the same level, the whole movie. Yeah, I mean, it's not like we've like seen this story a billion times as you.

you said, it is a movie about what if there was a zookeeper's wife? So it is a little bit, you know, movies about zookeeper's wives are not a chock-a-block on our film schedule. And yet, there are, you know, beats and arcs, and there is a visual language that comes with movies like these, this sort of the creaking floorboard that spells danger for the people you are hiding, you know, down below, the suspicious look from the Nazi where, you know, the pit of your stomach sort of drops to the floor, the fracturing marriage kind of a thing because of these sort of lecherous advances that the Nazi guy is making on Jessica Chastain's character, Antonina.

And so it's tough to surprise an audience with a movie like this. And I'm not really saying that that's the goal of this movie, but there is a sense of we know all too well kind of where this story goes. We know this history all too well. And so I think ultimately the filmmakers and Chastain are sort of working against that tide a little bit. Right. Well, and that being said, because I certainly don't want to be glib about history,

but I also don't want to, like, discredit the movie in a certain way, because we are very familiar with this type of movie, and, like, we've seen a lot of, like, really, really bad ones and, like, almost offensive to history versions of movies like this. But, like, I think this is... I can't believe you used to... up all of your English when you were saying that sentence, Chris. I don't...

Trying not to invoke Jacob the Liar. But, you know, it is a familiar brand of movie, and that being said, I think it's better than a lot of the movies that it will remind you of, and I think it's largely because Jessica Chastain's good in the movie. Yeah, I think she's very good in the movie. It's interesting. I was watching some interviews with Chastain. and with Nikki Caro from when that movie released.

And of course, one of the, your sort of boilerplate questions when you have a Q&A like that is what kind of brought you to the movie, what, you know, made you want to make this movie. And in both of their cases, a lot of times you'll talk about, and especially this is, you know, a movie based on a book, and you'll talk about how, oh, I, some, a friend of mine told me, you have to read this book, and I read this book, and I said, I have to make this movie. or, you know, this person's story, I came across it and it was so, you know, enraptured by it and whatever. And in both of their cases, in both Chastain and Nikki Carrow's cases, they both were like,

I beat this movie because someone sent me a script. You know what I mean? It was just like there was not this great narrative of them coming to the movie. It feels like very much kind of business as usual kind of thing, which is not to like slight movies that people make by, you know, getting sent scripts. That's sort of, that's how Hollywood works. That's how Hollywood is run. But it feels like a lot of times with these Oscar movies, if there isn't a true sort of passion narrative,

at least one kind of maybe gets ginned up a little bit, and the fact that there wasn't even that for this, watching it now, with the benefit of hindsight, of course, but watching it now, I'm just like, oh, yeah, like, that was not, like, they weren't even going to go to the trouble of, like, making up a fake story about how, you know, their, you know, child's kindergarten teacher handed them a book and we're like, you have to read this book.

And so it's basically, I'm sure it's also one of those things of as soon as one or the other was attached, you know, Nikki Caro and Jessica Chastain wanted to work together. Yeah, sure. I mean, certainly. And, I mean, can we do the Nikki Carrow discussion now? We're sort of at the top of it. Yeah, totally. She's a really...

Her assent is very, very interesting. Yeah. You know, um, so yeah, go into it. I mean, so she's a New Zealand filmmaker. She, uh, in her early career, was sort of a sculpture worker that was sort of a lot of her early, um, sort of passions. And then she makes a movie called memory and desire in 1998 in New Zealand. Um, I'm not really familiar with any of.

the stars of it. It was shot by Dionne Beebe, but this very, very small distributor, and it plays as can in 1998. She's nominated for the camera door, does not win. And wins, I think it ends up playing on television in New Zealand. No, I'm sorry, it was nominated for New Zealand Film and Television Awards, so they sort of wrap themselves together. But anyway, that's her debut, but it's not till five years later, four or five years later, that Whale Rider comes along. And Whale Rider is like the big breakthrough. I believe that one premiered at Sundance. Correct me if I'm wrong?

Well, I mean, because Whale Rider is listed as an O2 movie, but it was O3 release in the States. I want to say that it actually premiered at TIF. And then played Sundance in the States after that. Possibly? Because I definitely know it was... Because didn't it win a TIF prize? Yes, it won audience award. That was the thing.

It won audience award at TIF. Yes, that's how it went. It went to TIF first, September of 2002. It wins the audience award there. Then it goes to Sundance, and it wins the audience award there for World Cinema. And then it plays like the Tribeca Film Festival, and it plays Rotterdam, and then it ultimately opens in the United States in June of 2003. So it's got already this like really not even just, there's festival pedigree, which definitely exists, but there's also like populist festival pedigree. And this, that's what Well Rider had, where it not only played well at these festivals, but the audiences there loved it so much that they were giving it prizes.

And that's when, you know, these movies really, you know, studios sort of pin their hopes on it. It was, I'm trying to look up the distributor for Whale Rider. Give me a second. It was New Market, right? The studio that basically went under after they did Passion of the Grice. I knew it was something. I was going to say it was either think film or New Market. It was New Market.

You're absolutely right. And they also had Donnie Darko, I believe. Yeah, New Market was an interesting little, an interesting little outfit there for a while. A little moment. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Is New Market also Memento? I was going to say, on their IMDB, and so this is sometimes a little bit, sometimes misleading, because they can be co-productions and whatnot.

But movies like Agora, the Alejandro. Menobar movie with Rachel Weiss. Monster Memento. The Way Back, the Peter Weir movie, the way back. The Woodsman, the

Kevin Bacon movie, The Woodsman. The Nines, that John August movie, The Nines. Did you ever see that one with Ryan Reynolds and Melissa McCarthy? But did not.

Interesting little movie. Anyway, yeah. So New Market was this very indie, like, it wasn't even like... Almost like pre-approved indie, like Oscar pre-approved indie where they're like Fox Searchlight, Focus Features, Weinstein Company. Like you guys are our, you know, Miramax, you guys are our Indies that we look for.

New Market really had to kind of fight for this. And it was a really strong campaign. Obviously, the big quirk about that movie's Oscar success was that Keisha Castle Hughes was heavily campaigned in supporting actress despite the fact that she is so, much the lead that she's kind of like there are other actors in this movie obviously Cliff Curtis among them but like

this is Keisha Castle Hughes's movie. This is a movie about her. If you want to say maybe the whale is the main character and that's why you want to fudge it and say that Keisha is supporting, that's the only possible argument you could possibly make. And so once Oscar nomination morning

comes around, Oscar voters actually sort of you know, did it their own way and they nominated her in lead actress. So that was the big surprise, not that she got nominated necessarily, because a lot of people thought she might get nominated and supporting, but that she got nominated in lead was one of the big surprises. Of a fairly surprising Oscar nomination morning,

I think we've talked about this before, the sort of the Fernando Morelli's city of God in America had some surprising Oscar nominations that morning, and then Keisha Castle Hughes. I'm sure we had a lot to say during our 2003 May Minis. series. That's right, yes. After Whale, so Whale Rider comes out in the States in 03,

Nikki Caro then signs on to direct North Country, which is based on this book, the movie was forever going to be called Class Action. Starting Charlize Theron, Francis McDormand, is about

abusive working conditions in a mine in Minnesota. is it an iron mine? I was going to say, it's not a coal mine, it's an iron mine. Anyway, gets nominations for both Charlize Theron and Francis McDormand. It is always my go-to example for the sort of idea of a halo nomination,

where an actor or actress wins the Oscar, and then within one to three years, gets a follow-up nomination, despite the fact that maybe, you know, the buzz isn't fully there. It's a little bit puzzling why this movie sort of... It's not like North Country was taking, you know, American cinemas by storm in 2005, and yet... It was considered a little bit of a box office disappointment, and if I remember, correctly, came out early enough in the season. October, maybe?

October, yeah. It had played TIF in 2005 and then opened a month later. But yeah, it was seen as a little bit of a, maybe a soft disappointment. People liked it. It's not like everybody hated it or anything like that. There was some, you know, support for it. I actually thought it was a pretty good movie, probably not something I would have nominated. But it was one of those things where it's like, we took a chance on Charlie's Theron, we gave her the Oscar, and look at her.

She's coming back, and she's good again in a movie. And so she gets another nomination. And from there, so here's where the Nikki Caro career really kind of hits a snag, where she's signed on to make a movie that forever in a day was called The Vintner's Luck, which that was the book's title that they were based on. So, like, you're kind of, you know, at some level, boxed into that. But also, if your movie's called The Vintner's Luck, it doesn't surprise me that, you you know, it's maybe not going to catch fire.

But the other thing about it was this movie, and it starred Vera Farminga and Keisha Kessel Hughes again, and Gaspar, Ullier, how do we pronounce the late Gaspar's last name? I believe that's correct. And then Jeremy Rennier. And so it's about a vittner, a winemaker. and it ends up being called a heavenly vintage and it gets released I suppose I will take it on an article of faith that it ever did get released it feels like the classic movie for me that was

on a like this will come out this year and it was that way for like four different years it was just like yes sometime this year you know Vera Farminga and Keisha Castle Hughes in And wait for the vintner's luck. And so it ultimately gets released, technically, I said, in 2009, and nobody sees it. And so Nikki Caro does not direct another feature film after that for another six years after that until McFarland, USA, which is the movie where Kevin Costner coaches a, is it a cross-country team, I want to say? It's another boys running movie. Right, right. Which I remember at the time.

Because I forget if that movie made money or not, but people being online, like, Disney's releasing this movie by Nikki Caro and nobody knows that it's a Nicky Caro movie? Right. That was the thing. Do you remember that? Yes. Because by that time, this director who had been kind of this indie sensation and this up-and-coming, you know, watch out for Nikki Caro, because the fact that it had been 10 full years since she had released a movie that anybody saw. Between North Country and McFarland, USA, it's 10 years. And so by this point now, she's become kind of by default, sort of a journeyman director, right? A sort of director for hire sounds pejorative.

And yet, like, it's odd that, like, she's sort of, she's not making, like, prestigey movies. It's the beginning of kind of her studio. director assent, which like feels like she's being given bigger and bigger movies. Yeah, like this is not to jump ahead, but like this is the movie that gets her in-house with Disney. Right, right.

So Zookeeper's wife follows up McFarland USA by a couple years, and Zookeeper's wife, again, has another fairly anonymous. McFarland USA made okay money, by the way, you had asked, it made $45 million. I want to see how much of that was yeah so 44 million 44 and a half million in north america so like for a movie

like about again kevin costner coaching a cross-country team that's not bad like that's actually i would say that's pretty good for if you would if you had told me if you had asked me before this episode how much money do you think macfarlane USA made in 2015 i would have been like $12 million so to me that's like that's better than i would have thought so But then Zookeeper's Wife, again, another very anonymous release, and she doesn't direct another movie for another three years after that. And that ends up being the live action Moulon, which is cursed in timing, if nothing else. I actually think that's an okay movie. I don't think it's a great movie.

I wanted it to be great. Yeah, it has some problems, but, like, it's handsomely made. Some of the craft behind the scenes of that movie is pretty beautiful. It got the costume nomination. Did it get anything else? I believe that was the only nomination that it got, but I will double check. Also, Gungley giving it to you every ball in that movie. Oh, it got visual effects nomination as well.

Ah, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Yeah, Gongley fucking rules in that movie. There's a cameo at the end of that movie that made me cheer out loud, which was great. Um, but ultimately, because it gets released, uh, amid the, it got, it was, it was about to be released. It had its world premiere on March 9th, 2020 at the Dolby Theater and Hollywood at the Oscars Theater. Um, it was about to be released on the eve of COVID shutting everything down. So it was like, and Disney reportedly, reportedly would have pushed the movie if it wasn't for, like, licensing and merchandising deals that they were stuck to,

basically. It was too late to pull the movie out, not just because it was about to be released, but because of, like, contractual reasons. Right. They had to release it online. So, when was the, what was the day of the online release? Because it, uh, it did get pushed in general, like, it got pulled from, obviously, as everything did in March, it got released online

in September as a premiere. So it got so it was, you know, six months released delayed, and then it was, you know. But the premium VOD I believe was before then, though. Was it?

I think so. Give me a second. I mean, maybe I'm wrong, but like, it wasn't pushed that long. I don't think. Give me like half a second. to read this because I want to get this right.

Because if it was September, that's like post-tenant. Yeah, premiered the film on Disney Plus with Premier Access for a premium fee on September 4th, 2020. Oh, wow. Yeah. Never mind. I guess I remember that name correctly. No, yeah.

So, 2020, sorry, September 4th, 2020 was the premier access release date. by that point this was like the this was the experiment movie right Mulan was the movie that they were going to

try and see if they could make premier VOD work for movies that were intended to be blockbuster theatrical releases that they didn't want to wait they had all this stuff

on their hands they didn't want to hold onto it for longer than they already had and let's see and so I remember there was a lot of like debate over Mulan and whether this is going to work and whether it's going to adversely affect the movie. And ultimately, as we saw with, I think a lot of would-be blockbusters that Disney put out on Disney Plus

or that Warner Brothers put out on HBO Max, which was to some degree or another, like, Wonder Woman Part 2 got, Wonder Woman 1984, got like talked about and whatever, as did Soul, as did whatever. But, like, there was this palpable sense that these are asterisk movies, that these are not movies that are being, we're not getting the full experience that we would have with these movies. Not just the fact that, like, I'm not seeing it in a theater, but it's not being a movie in a theater, there is something sort of ephemeral about that that I've not been able to ever really define. But it's like there could be a movie released in a theater that even if, I don't see that movie, that's a theatrically released movie. That is a major release. It gets treated as such. And it exists sort of in the cultural firmament as a major release. And I think we're still having a struggle defining movies that don't open in theaters. Right?

Well, it's not, it's harder to define them too, because like now we're at the point where that's happening less and less. And I mean, it's been confusing from corporation to corporation on, like, what their actual end goal is with some of their product. Right. But, like, no, you're absolutely right that, like, they have a qualification to their footprint on the culture. Yeah.

And I think Mulan even has that a little bit harder because, you know, it's a Disney live action remake. and, like, a lot of those, even when they've made a ton of money, have floated into the ether, right? Like, Beauty and the Beast made an insane amount of money. Right, right. And nobody talks about that movie happening. Right. And it's like, Mulan is going to get that even more so.

Like, it's, it has this whole other wrinkle to it that I think things like, you know, Tenet doesn't even have. Well, the real bummer about Mulan, too. And, again, caveat being that, like, the movie itself, was not as good as I was hoping it was going to be in my opinion and I think in a lot of people's opinion there was a crestfallen kind of tone to the reaction to that movie

and I think rightly so but anyway Moulon was the latest in this series of live action remakes of Disney animated films and the receptions to those had gotten sort of steadily worse or at least like was not in a good place

where like some people sort of like Cinderella the Lily James Cinderella nobody as you said nobody really talks about the 2017 Beauty and the Beast kind of at all anymore, and people didn't really like it when it got released. The Lion King made it, again, a ton of money and yet seemed to land with a thud culturally. Nobody ever talks about that Lion King. If you're talking about the Lion King, you're either talking about the animated film or perhaps the Broadway version. And so by the time Mulan was coming out, the reputation for these movies

was not great. Certainly among critics or among like discerning audiences or whatever. And yet that trailer for Milan came out. And all of our cynicism, it felt like at least, got blown out the doors. Right. And we're just like watching that trailer, I

at least was like, oh, I'm, it's such a rousing trailer. I feel so excited to see this movie. And Mulan was never like, by the time Mulan came out, the original Milan, I was at the like post-Disney age of like, you know, I talk about how I've never seen Hercules or whatever,

and so because I was too old for it. And so Moulon came out, I think, right after Hercules. And so I don't have these, like, childlike attachments to a movie like Moulon. And yet I see that trailer, and I was like, oh, my God, like, I was so excited for it. And then to have that excitement that had built up, literally, again, movie had its premiere in Hollywood. Like, it was on the eve of getting released and to have it get pulled was, you feel terribly for a lot of the people involved

but like Nikki Carroll especially kind of because like her career had been so rocky for such a long time and well and she'd been bandied about like she was a name that you would see mentioned in like prospective Disney projects for a while and like she was never the one to get the job

yes yeah and then so you know also speaking of movies that are not getting released in theaters uh her next movie is a netflix movie and jennifer lopez action netflix movie right which again i mean we talk about sort of like nicky carrow becoming less of an auteur director and more of a of you know a work-a-day director this movie the mother if you're making a movie with jennifer lopez you're making a Jennifer Lopez movie. You know what I mean? Like, you're not, this is, you're not making a Nikki Caro movie. And so, I'm, I, we're recording this conversation less than 24 hours after I finally saw Mary Me, if you make a Jennifer Lewis, if, if, if, if, if, if you make a Jennifer

Lopez movie, you are making a Jennifer Lopez movie. Yeah. The, the, the, the, the, definitive text of Jennifer Lopez movie. I still haven't seen it. I, need to see it. Well, you're going to see it soon because I'm going to make you see it soon. Oh, I'm like, it's not that I don't want to see it. I will see it. It's just, it's, what's the reality TV show quote? She may, oh, it's Cocoa Montres.

She may not want to talk about it, but we're going to talk about it. Oh, I thought you were going to do the Gia gun. What you want to do is not what you're going to do. Um, yes. Anyway, yes, I'm going to see Mary Me. It came out during, but you want to see Mary Me. I do. It came out during Oscar season, which is the only reason why I didn't see it, is because it was so goddamn busy with everything else.

But anyway, so the mother is this action thriller, and it stars Jennifer Lopez, and I mean, technically also Joseph Fines and Gile Garcia Bernal and Omari Hardwick. And yet, this is Jennifer Lopez. Like, it's when Netflix did their big super trailer for all the movies that were coming out and everybody kind of barfed at it or whatever. The worst cultural abomination to hit movie screens of. various sorts since the computer-animated Lion King movie. I'm the only person who, like, did not freak out about that. I don't know. It's not like I liked it.

I hated it. I felt like culture was dying before my eyes. Anyway, Jennifer Lopez was very prominently featured in that. It was, like, her and, like, Jason Momoa in that weird fantasy movie that he's in, were, like, the two, and then the end shot with the Knives Out part two. Anyway, seems like it's going to be a big priority. for Netflix, but does not seem like it's going to be an awardsy thing, which it doesn't have to be.

Like, you know, there are great movies that are not a... Oh, no, I'm absolutely going to watch this movie. Oh, absolutely. But I also... What's your expectation of it being good? That's the thing, is I don't really have a whole lot of expectation for it being good, which is too bad because I love Jennifer Lopez, and I want the best for Nikki Caro. So, take it back...

There could be a corner turning with Nikki Caro, though. The thing that we're talking about, where she... She is essentially a studio director or, you know, like you say, work-a-day director. She has an Amazon limited series coming with Riley Keough called Daisy Jones and the Six. That sounds cool. But then IMDB also has her currently attached, I hope this actually happens, to a novel I love that I've wanted to see adapted for a long time called Beautiful Ruins, which was one of the, like, you know, 20 things. that Todd Field was attached to at one time. Right.

I don't think I read Beautiful Ruins, but I feel like I was, like, that book was recommended to me very heavily. You would fucking love this book. It is so good. It kind of, it's one of those things where there's like multiple stories across multiple generations, but it also takes place on the set of the filming of Cleopatra. Right, right, yes. In part of it.

And there is this, like, young. actress who looping it back to the zookeeper's wife the actress I had in my mind when I read the book was Jessica Chastain very good

who knows who they would cast in this role though but it's like a really interesting part but also Richard Burton comes into the action at some point as a character in the book oh as a full character in the book and oh that's intriguing

I mean if this would become an Oscar thing yeah and of course this could be a full like years in advance egg on my face type of thing right whoever is playing richard burton is getting nominated for an oscar who would you cast as richard burton who would you where where tom burke that's the first thing that leapt to my mind okay all right but like he's already played orson right that's the problem that's the that's the problem right there in a nutshell is you don't want to have somebody who is, you know, playing the grates, essentially.

The way that Richard Burton, without, you know, spoiling it, because, like, just like I said about marry me, I will now make you read this book. Yeah. The way that Richard Burton is used is, like, dryly funny, but also, like, a bastard. So, you'd have to have somebody who could be that. And again, Tom Burke. But, again, you're right. You're right about the worst of all of that.

I love that you love Tom Burke and haven't seen the souvenir yet. He is unreal in the souvenir. I'm, okay, you're going to have an easier time making me watch the souvenir movies than you are to get me to read a book of any kind. I just don't have the time. It's not a difficult book. I sound anti-book. I love books. If I had unlimited leisure time, I would read so many books.

It's not that I don't like reading books. I don't have the time. It is a problem. probably anyway um all right so backing out of the niki caro thing to the zookeeper's wife as a film as a sort of like you know a tourist project how do we feel like the zookeeper's wife comes off because i know that like the both of us sort of default to like jessica chastain's great in this movie but like is this a great movie i mean As a movie that probably, I mean, it's on Netflix now, so, like, people can watch it.

Right. But as a movie that will probably find its widest audience in, like, middle school classrooms, I think it's perfectly fine. Yeah. I think that's probably... And I don't mean that as a dig, but, like... No. You could put way worse movies like it or, like, dealing with similar subject matter in front of middle schools, and it's terrible movies. Yeah.

No. I think that's right. I think that's right. All right, so let's dive into the Jessica Chastain discussion because, again, it's such a fascinating career where it really was past guests of the show Bobby Finger once sort of made a joke to me about Jessica Chastain where he's like, he's like, if I ever met her, I think I wouldn't be able to resist just asking her, like, where did you come from? because, and this was around the time of like 2011, 2012, because it really was just like, she wasn't in anything and then in 2011,

she's in six movies. Like, legitimately, uh, the big ones that people talked about were the help, which she gets the Oscar for, or Oscar nomination for, the Tree of Life, and Take Shelter. Take Shelter being the, um, uh, Jeff Nichols movie with, uh,

she's Michael Shannon's wife in that movie. So those are the big ones. But she's also in Coriolanus, the Ray Fines, uh, version of Coriolanus. She's in well I guess the debt was 2010, the John Madden movie about

Israeli spies, Mossade agents, something like that. She plays the younger version of Helen Mirren's character in that. She's also in the quasi-documentary Al Pacino thing,

Wild Salome. And she's in a movie that I've not seen called Texas Killing Fields, which she's in with Sam War. Worthington, who was also in the debt with her. So it's this, like, insanely concentrated series of movies.

And then in 2012, she's in Lawless, which is the John Hillcote movie that forever was supposed to be called the Wettest County. That was the name of the book. The Wettest County in the World. But forever on movie list, it was just, like, coming soon, the Wettest County. And I'm like, that is, you talk about dumb movie titles. Can you, just imagining, you know, two for the Wettest County, please. All right.

And then, obviously, the end of 2012, zero dark 30, acclaimed performance. She gets her second Oscar nomination in as many years. And if that wasn't the Jennifer Lawrence coronation year with Silver Lemings Playbook, Jessica Chastain probably wins the Oscar. She wins the Golden Globe and Drama. So, like, those two years... Sometimes I'm still surprised she did not win. I'm not because the Jennifer Lawrence narrative was so strong. And it was very much just like...

I think maybe if Jennifer Lawrence didn't have Hunger Games or Hunger Games making as much money as it did, maybe Jessica Chastain would have beat her, but like... Hollywood loves creating a movie star in front of your faces, and I think that, I think Lawrence and that performance was a much more ready-made kind of like a star is born kind of a thing. But anyway, Chastain, so all of a sudden it's just like, she's here and she's in everything, and... It's interesting to me, and I want to hear your sort of take on this, because from that place, from that sort of like this, you know, fully formed great actress is here, and she's in two Oscar nominated performances right in a row, and the momentum could not have been stronger. And then from that point, from 2012 through the 10 years from then until her Oscar, right, she's, that reputation has changed. That reputation has sort of like shifted and molded, and it's sort of this like a lava lamp of a thing where it's never quite the same shape or consistency the whole way through. She's in big blockbusters like Interstellar and The Martian, where she's not the lead, but she's like, you know, sort of a featured supporting performance. She's in, you know, very kind of rigorously studious indie movies like Miss Julie.

and the disappearance of Eleanor Rigby she's in weirdo Guillermo del Toro stuff like Crimson Peak where she's like going like off the chain she's in Miss Sloan and Molly's game yankin her brother but so the thing and she's in like you know movies that don't exist like woman walks ahead or

Zookeeper's wife frankly and it feels like throughout that decade we're still waiting to define what kind of actress she is and also what kind of celebrity she is, where this is during the time where she's a kook on Instagram, and, you know, she's being kind of extra in sort of this, like, you know, quasi-Anne Hathaway kind of a way. And one of the things that I find so interesting

about her winning the Oscar for this year, and one of the things that for so long kept me from thinking that she would ultimately win. I kept looking for anybody else to have momentum to win. It's not because I didn't like the performance. It was because I was like, it would be so strange for Jessica Chastain to win the Oscar when we're in this kind of state of flux over, like, what kind of actress is Jessica Chastain?

What kind of celebrity is she? Am I making any sense at all? No, I think you are. I mean, what kind of celebrity she is is always tricky because, and, like, what kind of actress she is in, like, interviews and such is because she is obviously a very serious and, like, intelligent person. Yeah. But then you have the, like, Instagram online persona of her that, you know, also says very, you know,

forwardly that she doesn't take herself too seriously. Yes. So it's, like, it's, it's two different worlds sometimes. but, like, I kind of appreciate the cringing online Jessica Chastain part of it myself. I do, too. I'm like, none of this is for me saying that I don't like what she's putting out there. What I'm saying is it doesn't seem to be, and maybe a lot of it is that, like, she's not being as managed as other actresses, and that's refreshing in a way.

But, like, there's just, there's a lot of angles to it, and there's not really this, like, streamlined vision of, like, when this is, like, when Nicole Kidman, won the Oscar for the hours, that was an Oscar that came at the end of this period of her reforming her persona, her acting persona, her sort of like where she existed in the Hollywood system, and that Oscar seemed like the perfect capstone to that. And I think you see that we talked about Jennifer Lawrence, like that narrative was very clean, which was this like, you know, a star is born kind of a moment. And, And eyes of Tammy Faye didn't feel like the culmination of anything.

It felt like the next step on a sort of ever-shifting evolution. And one of the things that I think is so fascinating, I think one, I for the life of me, don't remember who said it, but it probably wasn't even just one person. Just posed the question of just like, is Jessica Chastain a great actor? Like, is she? because, like, she gives a lot of different types of performances, and they're not all great. Sometimes she's too, she can be over earnest. She can be, like, not quite have a grip on...

I mean, she probably, I mean, like, if you took the franchises out, if you took the X-Men out, if you took... Holmesman. Yes, God, out. I mean, I feel like we would maybe have a better... I feel like those do a lot, and like the It movie, too. Like, those movies kind of do a lot to, you know, kind of tarnish her, like, image as an actress. And I also think, like, her as an action star, because we're also coming off the 355, which I really wanted to see, and I never did. And also that Tate Taylor movie that she did.

Yeah. Like, I think those have done... a lot, but, like, if you just remove those from the equation, I think people would look at her differently. That's true, but those are big things to remove from the equation because they're, in many ways, her most visible things. Sure, sure, sure. But, like, I also think the flip side of that is that she's do it, she has a lot of really

cool, wide-ranging performances that a lot of people don't talk about. Like, I love her in Crimson Peak. We did a whole episode on her in a most violent year, which, like, she was probably sixth place, but, like, people did forget about that movie pretty quickly. Crimson Peak, though, is a pretty divisive performance. Not everybody loved it. And it's a divisive movie. Yes, yes. It's one I think we should do soon because I would love to revisit it.

It's been, you know, seven years now since I've seen it. And I didn't, but I didn't, I don't think I ever really settled on what I fully thought about that movie. And that's why I'm dying to sort of revisit it. I feel like I owe it to it. But anyway, I just, she's an actress who is endlessly intriguing to me. And the sort of, even, you know, the extranness and the cringiness sometimes and the over-earnessness, it all works for me. And I'm excited to see what she's.

does next. And the only thing I was like with the eyes of Tammy Fay, again, was just like it did not feel like the epitome of anything or the culmination of anything. It felt like another spot on the journey. And I don't think like she's an undeserving Oscar winner. That's not the point that I'm trying to make. It's just that I do think it's an odd win. Well, I do think she probably will have better performances in the future than what her Oscar win is and like the downside of that is like she might get nominated again but because she has it it's going to be harder for her to win for a better performance. I do think it was very leading up to it. It was and I think I'm I don't want to speak for you but it does sound similar

to like what you were thinking and that leading up to it it felt like it's going to be so strange if Jessica Chastain wins for this movie. Yeah. Because it had no momentum until she actually started winning things. And ultimately, on the other side, I think it kind of makes perfect sense if you actually look at that best actress race and not at the performance or the reception for the movie. Like, I think her performance is good slash, you know, okay. I think she has way more ideas than the movie does about the character she's playing. I think that's right.

And the movie is not at all on her level. I can be swayed in a lot of directions with that performance. be swayed into thinking it's a great performance. I can be swayed into feeling like it's maybe a little surfacy at times. My true feelings are probably somewhere in the middle. I don't think we would feel that way if the movie was better. I think that's probably right. I think ultimately, again, it's, I can go a lot of ways with it. I don't feel any sense of injustice that she won, even if she beat out performances that I thought were great, like Penelope Cruz or something like that. But yeah, it's just an odd one to get a handle on. And maybe... Her speech is actually

really lovely. I loved her speech. I thought it was a great speech. Again, classic Jessica Chastain, sort of like very earnest and very... She had a lot of things I think she wanted to say in that speech. And they kind of meandered a little bit. But there was the effort to make, to say all those things at once was endearing to me. Mm-hmm. So, yeah. My other thing is, like, being on the other side of it, I actually think it makes perfect sense that she won, because, like, she's up against a lot of people who already

had one. Yes. And it felt like people were holding that against Nicole Kidman the most. Like, her only other competition was, for someone who hadn't won, was Kristen Stewart, and there was a lot of up and downs with, you know, that performance is played. in the season and I think kind of the up and down of the whole race the whole time really played into Jessica Chessain's favor ultimately and also she worked her ass off for it she never really stopped promoting that movie for like six months she put that movie on her back campaigned harder than anyone else but like even if people thought like her online persona was irritating I think people who were actually voting for her probably never thought that she was too thirsty or I imagine she's great in a room. Like, it is not hard for me to imagine that she is a fantastic Oscar campaigner who, you know, just from her presence alone.

That doesn't surprise me whatsoever. I also, though, feel like, and again, we're limited by our own sort of like social circles, and I get it. But that sort of post-Oskers period where everybody kept passing around the Olivia Coleman clip, the Lost Daughter Clint, that they used during the ceremony, which was by far, if you were just watching the clips, if you did not see any of the movies and you were just watching the clips, Coleman wins in a landslide, right? Because it's so, it's such an impressive performance in that very limited span of time that you have for a clip.

I still, I mean, I was betting on Coleman all season. I still, I think if you asked me today, who's going to win best actress if they vote today. I'm like, well, Olivia Coleman, obviously. Like, I would not budge from that. I think the thing about Olivia Coleman doesn't campaign for much period, but I think she probably did just about nothing for this. And it's like, she was filming during voting for the favorite, but she was also filming during the voting for this. And like, I can't really explain to you why it didn't hurt her then, but I do think it hurt her chances now. So, like, let me talk about both sides of my mouth for that. However, like, I do think the whole season would have absolutely changed if she didn't

have her Oscar, because I think she would have been the landslide person from the beginning of the season if she wasn't already an Oscar winner. A hundred percent. I think that's 100 percent true. Um, all right, I want to talk about what Jessica Chastain has upcoming, though, because... Because it's a lot. It's a lot. And it's a lot that we don't really know a ton about. So, let me pull up her IMDB. very quickly. She has the Tammy Wynette show where she is not only

reuniting with Michael Shannon, who she starred in with Take Shelter, and they're both very good in that movie. But also, I guess the series is being directed by John Hillcote, which is the thing that makes me lawless, her lawless director. Less excited for it.

Yeah, yeah. What are Hillcoats, what's Hillcote's best movie? I hate his movies That's the thing I mean you're so excited that he's a part of this project And yet you look at his Films and it's like

I'm not excited he's a part of the project It's the thing that makes me worry about it I thought all right I misheard you Yeah Sorry sorry no because otherwise I would absolutely be on board But like I see I see I do also think that that just like speaks to That's just one example of the time

that, you know, of the times that, like, Jessica Chastain, like, is reunited with people that she works with. Right. And, like, it's on the surface, at least, from the outside, it seems like she's the one who's, like, getting people she's worked with involved. So it's, like, it is cool to see her, like... Wrangling projects. Right.

And, like, that she is somebody that people want to work with again, you know? Boy, Hillcoat really does have a vibe, though. His movies are the proposition The Road Lawless Triple Nine Like Grim masculine films

I guess is how you could Often working with great actors Who deserve better Yeah Yeah So George and Tammy is Paramount Plus And it is

Are they gonna sneak it out Before the Emmys Or are they gonna They just finished filming. Oh, so it'll be next year. Okay, okay, okay. Yeah. All right. Like, she, she'd been filming during the Oscar came. Right, right. Um, the other ones, she's completed filming a Tobias Lindholm movie called The Good Nurse. Now, Tobias Lindholm for Netflix. Uh, right. Tobias Lindholm is the Danish filmmaker of another round and The Hunt.

so we are very interested He wrote another round, right? With... Sorry, yes. Yeah. Yes. Remind me who directed another round.

That's Thomas Vinderberg. Yes. But I do think he's one of his collaborators. Right. He also, that director has also done, like, forget the name of it, but a mini-series for, like, HBO.

Tobias Lindholm, you're talking about. Yes. The investigation. yes yeah he's also directed on mind hunter he uh had an oscar nominated foreign language film in 2015 called a war uh that i actually thought was really good um as i recall uh you know recent oscar history it's always fun to just be like remember when you saw 20 oscar movies in the span of a week remember what you thought about every single one of them and i'm like yes i do um but i remember liking a war quite a bit.

Yeah, so he wrote another round, as I said. And so there's a lot of excitement, I think, over the prospect of him directing a movie with Jessica Chesdain. It's called The Good Nurse. Who else is in this thing? Eddie Redmayne.

Eddie Redmayne. Kim Dickens. Noah Emmerich. It's a cool cast. So we hope. Right? We have some hope. This could be a Halo nomination.

You never know. You never really know. It could be a thing that's totally forgotten because it's Netflix. So you really have no indication of their level of priority for it, right? It could also be because of their level of priority. It could be one of those, like, mid-tier ones where it's like they push it, but they don't push it enough. Yeah. She's in pre-production, according to an IMDB, on a sci-fi movie called The Division

that is a sort of future pandemic movie, very fun and interesting, her and Jake Gyllenhaal. That movie is written by Rafe Judkins, who, in addition to, he is just coming off of The Wheel of Time, that big fantasy series on Amazon. on, but he also was on Survivor for a season, and nearly won, actually. Oh, wow. Yeah, like, probably should have won that season, and he was on the season that my friend was on. And so I've always sort of, like, had one eye on him.

He's worked in, like, a bunch of, like, sci-fi stuff, agents of shield and, and all this other sort of stuff. And, but Wheel of Time feels like a very big, like, leveling up for that, because that was a show that I had zero expectations for, and then all of a sudden I kept seeing so many people being like, I'm so into week. Wheel of Time. Are you watching Wheel of Time? So, you know, good on that show, good on him. So that's a little interesting. And then she's also attached to something called Mother's Instinct, which is a film with her and Anne Hathaway. I'm into them reteaming and actually getting some

screen time together. I would love that. Wait. This is the other. thing about Cheska Chastain. Oh, interstellar. I was like, wait a second. Like, reteaming from what? Yes, okay. Exactly. Like, people forget that they've been in a movie together because it's interstellar.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They play friends who are like wives and mothers and then something happens to shatter their perfect lives or whatever. Love a movie where something happens that shatters somebody's perfect life. I hope it is in the vein of a... obsessed or unforgettable. I'm into it either way. So, yeah, so excited to see where Jessica Chastain goes now that she is in her post-Oscar phase of her career.

Always an interesting phase of somebody's career. Where they go, what they do with that Oscar. It'll be interesting to see what kind of projects, because it's like she was already pretty A-listy before she won the Oscar. It's not like the Oscar has made her any more famous than she was. And yet, there's always a sense of, like, what projects are they going to sort of use this Oscar leverage? What's the cash in? Right. Yes.

Essentially, yes. The first thing that she'll have, though, is this movie The Forgiven, which premiered at TIF last year. Right. The John Michael McDonough that she's reteaming with Ray Fines. And, like, from the two people, because it wasn't available virtually for press, the, like, two people I saw said that she is kind of. kind of wild in this movie. So even though it is a Caleb Landry Jones picture, I will be excited to see it. Yeah, I remember that being one of the movies, because we did virtual TIF, so we were geo-blocked on some of the big ones. And for a lot of them, we were geoblocked on things like

Belfast. And it's like, well, that's a bummer, but like, we'll be able to see that soon enough because that's, you know, coming out and it'll be screening in the States and whatnot. And the Forgiven was the one where I was like, God damn it, I'm so mad that I can't. see this movie that you know people apparently like pounding cocaine in it god great lord knows uh i love when she rips the roof off of something sure she does it in crimson peak yes that's true yeah uh jessica chastain rafines calablandry jones christopher abbott is in that movie you know i love him abby lee has somehow survived from uh turning into a spider crab lady on the beach that makes you old um so good for her we want to

survived the final scene of not only God forgives, but the neon demon in which she is very funny. What an interesting career Abby Lee has had. But anyway, yeah, so The Forgiven, right? Very excited to see that. That releases in June, apparently, on Netflix. So, yeah.

No, it's Roadside. Oh, well, then IMDB needs to get their shit together because they say watch on Netflix. Unless Netflix just bought it. It might be an international thing. Fuck you, IMDB. They're getting me look stupid on here. I hate you.

All right. What else do we want to talk about? Are E, the zookeeper's wife? The zookeepers. I just have to talk. The zookeepers' wife. I do have to talk about this line because it did make me inappropriately laugh. And I said it at the top of the episode.

When Daniel Bruill fully, like, this is the moment where he goes into, like, cliche Daniel Bruill, like, mustache-twirling Nazi. Right. When he sneers at her, and your little zoo, I find that so funny. It is, now I'm going to make you find that clip. Your little zoo. And your little zoo, too. Yeah.

The zoo in this movie has a lot of farm animals on it. And I know that, like, I'm sure that exists. I guess I'm used to this sort of American. conception of zoos, where, like, there are zoo animals and there are farm animals, and they don't really... Well, they bring the livestock on there eventually, because they're, like, the way to, like, her means of survival, but also getting, you know, people in and out of the Jewish ghetto was like, we'll make it a livestock farm. You can feed the Nazis this way. But even the beginning, when, like, the bombing first happens and the animals are all sort of,

like, fleeing from the zoo, you see, like, sheep and stuff like that. So, like, again, sheep's a farm animal. It's not a zoo animal. And again, I'm sure that's... Maybe that was the food for the tigers. Oh, no. Oh, God. I did think it was fascinating that after that initial sort of bombing scene when the zoo animals are all sort of roaming free in the city, that like, ain't this some shit kind of a thing of just like, I'm living in Warsaw, the Nazis have just invaded. It's awful. I'm scared for my life. I need to figure out what to do and I look out the window and there's a goddamn lion and a tiger sort of like just rolling down the street and it's just like it's all it couldn't have been worse it couldn't you couldn't have you know cut me one break now all of a sudden I've got to flee with a tiger just rolling down the street I guess great um not a bad movie yeah I don't know if I'm going to think about it very often, but not a bad movie.

That's about as far as I'm willing to go, I think, with this. I also should mention, this was a Focus Features movie. Obviously, you know, pause for fanfare. Pause for the... Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. What did I see again recently?

There was another focus... Oh, it was the outfit that I... Another Focus Features movie that didn't do the sound. Was it like dialogue? Was it a music cue? I'm pretty sure it was just, it might have been like ambient sound, but like it was not the fanfare. And it was bumming me out.

Like I don't like that this is becoming a trend now, where I'm seeing it more and more. Because I have expectations when I see that title card I need the soothing sounds of the focus features. It should be illegal. It should be, thank you. All right, that's all I'm saying. It should be illegal.

2017 was a great year for focus features. After kind of a lean period, if I'm not mistaken, they really were sort of flush with films, not even just stuff that, like, they had some stuff where they were, like, doing international releases of, they had, like, the international distribution on, Lady Bird, but like, their

stuff that they were the primary domestic distributors, like, okay, yes, the Book of Henry, fine. We'll take that bullet. They distributed the Beguiled. They distributed atomic blonde. And then so their

award season stuff was kind of rocking for them. Darkest Hour. Best Picture nominee. Phantom Thread. Best picture nominee. They got so much closer for Victoria and Abdul than they had any right to that year. And including for Judy Dench. That's what, yeah, especially for Judy Dench.

Like, she, she was probably at worst seventh place on best actress, on that best actress ballot. I, she came close. And after, again, a while there where they were sort of, even when they would get Oscar success, it would be like nocturnal animals pulling like a couple scraps of nominations or we've talked about suffragette

or what other ones from this era so like it had been a while for them since they had an Oscar success and to have that much of it to have two best picture nominees

in 2017 was a great comeback I thought for them and it was probably a big part of the reason why they were like zookeeper's wife we will slot you in March like we have other priorities for the calendar and you will be getting released in the dead zone of late March focus features however our previous May miniseries still not a best picture winner I know no best picture win what do they have coming up that's like interesting. They have, well, the Northman is, yes, U.S. distribution on the Northman.

The new Downton Abbey. Something called Mrs. Harris goes to Paris, which... Excuse me. The movie, the motion picture event of the summer. Does that have a movie state yet? Yes, July. July. Yeah, the week after my birthday. What's that? Okay, so this is my July. Yes. I get basically the three movies I'm most excited for this summer.

Nope. On my birthday, which is a Friday, thank you. I get the new Claire Deney movie. Ooh. The next week. Right. There is a new Claire to New movie right now. And then the week after, nope.

July is lit. That's all I'm saying. So, wait, so nope is what date? July 22nd. Okay, so Mrs. Harris goes to Paris. and the Clairaginie are both on your birthday? No, Mrs. Erie goes to Perry as the 15th. Mrs. Harry goes to Perry.

I'm quitting this podcast. I can't. I can't handle that. Yeah, we should say why, though. Why is this your most anticipated movie? Isabel O'Person in it? Yeah. Co-starring with Leslie Manville, by the way.

Who is the titular Mrs. Harris? Mrs. Harry. But it doesn't matter. It's fine. Yes, it does matter. I'm sorry. I love Isabella pair, too. But Leslie Manville matters.

She ups the factor. No, of course. Of course she does. Of course she does. Part of the reason why I'm excited is what an exciting screen pair. Continuing on, Focus Features has the Sundance Acquisition, Honk for Jesus, Save Your Soul, which I believe is maybe getting released on Peacock. Mm-hmm.

And they have the new. New, I believe, Todd Field movie. Tar. They do. Is that how we're pronouncing it? Tar? T-A-R. I believe so.

All caps with an accent over the A. Not about Bayla Tar, but about a conductor. His last name is Tar, played by Kate Blanchett. Something I would probably keep my eye on as far as a best actress nomination is concerned. You know, I really thought that, like, I would be one of three weirdos. that's like Todd Field is back, but I'm already hearing, like, the drumbeats for this, that people are like, no, go back and watch Todd's Fields to movies. They were appreciated in their time, but not as much as they should have been.

And I'm like, is this going to be another one of those things where it's like, I've been saying this all along, and now it just becomes the cool thing. I don't know. Either way, I'm glad. Do you want to be the only person who loves Todd Field, or do you want Todd Field to be appreciated in his time? This is the decision you must make right now. I want to be the person who is recognized for always appreciating Todd Field.

That's what I want. Thank you. Not about Todd Field. It's about you. It's about me. Yeah. Focus also has, by the way, a movie that I, we were just talking about this with Katie Rich on our text thread the other day.

I am more and more intrigued by what this James Gray movie Armageddon Time could do because it's going to premiere it can. and it's scheduled for, I believe, like a nebulous sort of like fall release. It is a, it's James Gray essentially doing the coming-of-age autobiographical thing. A kid grows up in Queens. So it's the, there's, you know, the main stars are the children. And then in supporting roles, it's Anne Hathaway, Anthony Hopkins, and Jeremy Strong. I'm really intrigued.

And I feel like James Gray is not a- I never saw a rumor that actually Jessica Chastain might have a cameo in this, too. A third Jessica Chastain and Hathaway movie? Are we... Well, I mean, Blanchett was supposed to be in the movie, and it was not a huge role, and she dropped out last minute. Interesting. I'm just really intrigued because James Gray is a director who sort of famously has not been able to get arrested by the Oscars, despite having kind of increasingly Oscar-y... It's not like he directs in genres that are antithetical to the Oscars, right? He's done, you know, period pieces, and he's done sort of, like, grand epics, like Lost City of Zed, and he's done, you know, intelligent space movies like Ed Astra, which did get, like, a nomination, but... Mm-hmm.

A sound mixing. I'm interested to see if finally they sort of let him into the club. Actors certainly love him. Actors can't wait to work with him, right? Well, James Gray is also... The thing that James Gray can't get arrested with Oscars, because James Gray, for whatever reason, doesn't really get arrested with American audiences.

His regard is way bigger in Europe than it is here. Yeah. And, like, that's something that can always change. with one movie and like maybe this is the movie and he makes movies that are deliberate and thoughtful and not as flashy as other you know directors might have made that same subject matter and there is something sort of it's it's i think what contributes a lot to the kind of cult's nature of his appreciation among like critics or whatever It's not necessarily a cult thing, but it's, there is a sense of ownership over the people who love James Gray movies, sort of like what you were saying about Todd Field, where it's like, I get James Gray's thing.

I get what he's going for. And wider American audiences thus far have not. The Oscars thus far have not. And yeah, I've got, I've definitely got a pin on that one in terms of, I want to see what Armageddon Time can do. not i would i right now my thing is anne hathaway playing the mom in a sort of uh coming of age autobiographical thing feels like and i'm assuming she's playing the mom i don't think i know that for sure but that feels like i feel like that's been confirmed i don't know that just feels like i don't know and you know katrina boff just got snubbed this year for

balfast and so maybe i'm a nomination i will always misremember. Yeah, you'll always be like, yeah, Katrina Bolf definitely got nominated. Because it's so weird. It's so weird that she wasn't nominated. I know. Anyway, um, all right,

anything else to say about the zookeeper's wife before we jump into IMDB game? No, I would just say the last thing before we do that is next week starts our main miniseries. Have we announced it by then? Will they know what we're doing? We've announced it online, but I don't think we've set the subject on, uh, Mike. Right, but we're not going to be spoiling anybody if, uh, We'll have announced it on Twitter by the time people hear this, right?

I mean, if you're the type of person who doesn't want to know what things are until it drops into your feed, just skip ahead a minute or two. Yeah, but also, what an odd way to experience the world. Okay, anyway, yes, our main miniseries, I'm so excited for this one. When we were sort of, we were trying to figure this one out for a while. What should we do? We've done a series on a specific year, 2003. We have done a series on a specific actress, Naomi, Naomi. Watts. We have done a series on a specific studio, our beloved focus features. What

what remained, what other fields were there for us to conquer, Chris, with our next one? And it kind of arrived at us at a somewhat, a little bit of a serendipitous way in that we had to cancel an episode or push an episode back because we were going to. going to, should I just tell the whole story? Like, this makes sense, right? No, do it, do it. We were going to do ransom. And when we were prepping for ransom, you, I think, sent me the image of ransom being the cover movie of the

Entertainment Weekly Fall Movie Preview in 1996. And I was like, oh, well, I need to get that. We need to talk about this. It had been so long since we had talked about EW Fall Movie Preview. And so I went on eBay and ordered it. and through annoying little complications in terms of like where I was visiting my parents and whatever, I wasn't going to be able to get my hands physically on this copy of the Entertainment Weekly issue until after we were meant to record. So we had to push Ransom down, kick Ransom

down the can, kick the can down the street rather. And while we were doing that, we were trying to figure out what our May miniseries was supposed to be. And you, in a brilliant brilliant decision sort of realized that like we could just do EW seasonal preview cover movies we tried we initially were like all fall movie preview

cover movies we don't they're not enough we've done a lot of them we've done some and most of them either we've done them or they got nominated for Oscar in some way so we couldn't do gangs of New York we couldn't do Jackie Brown we couldn't do you know any of these but there were if we opened it up

to all seasons we are a podcast for all seasons. And so once we... Cue the Grease 2 song. Once we opened that up, there were some really, really fantastic possibilities. And the timing of it was

right around the time that EW announced that they were shuddering their magazine, their physical magazine. And so there was a lot of nostalgia then for the classic EW of old, the classic fall movie previews or whatever. So the timing seemed

again serendipitous is the word I will use I'm so excited I usually give you autopsies for the month of May we're going to be giving you a eulogy yes yes a eulogy for the great EW movies so we're going to talk about movies that had made the cover of Entertainment Weekly's seasonal movie previews will be in most cases we were able to procure the issues so we will be able to talk about those issues a little bit while we discuss. We've got some fun guests. We've got some fun movies. We've got a listener's choice. Food, fun, and fashion. The mall has it all, as does this miniseries. So I'm very

excited. It's also because, like, and we'll probably get into it, like, EW being more like mainstream pop culture, too. We're doing definitely movies that I think, I doubt that there's a listener who hasn't seen at least one of the movies that we're doing in May. We're doing more like populist movies. You know, you might say that it's fudging a little bit towards like the Oscar buzziness, but we're talking about very Oscar buzzy people. Do we want to give the titles? I'm going to leave that one to you.

Yes, I think we should. Oh, okay. So starting with the spring movie preview, we will be doing David Fincher's Panic Room. So excited. So excited. So excited. Less excited.

to watch the movie. Way excited to talk about the ethos of it. For the summer movie preview, we'll be doing Ron Howard's The Da Vinci Code. I am excited. I am excited. I think that's going to be a fun one to talk about at least. Oh, it's going to be fun to talk about. Watching that movie again is going to be miserable. I mean, the fun thing is, you won't even have to rent it or go to a streaming platform, just literally turn on your television and find where it's airing right now because like USA or TNT or something is showing the DaVinci Code as we speak.

All nine hours. Yes. Fall sticking with Ron Howard, the aforementioned Ransom. Back to back Ronnie Howard's, yeah. We will not be relishing, talking Mel Gibson for the first time, but that is a cast that includes a lot of people to talk about its better time on.

And then the For the holiday movie preview We will be doing none other Than the Pelican Brief One of my favorite movies Of all time I love that movie so much I'm so excited to talk to you about it

So much fun to talk about the Pelican Brief And again, we've got some guests We'll announce those when we announce The particular episodes Very excited about that Your listener's choice Which if We'll say we'll do the listener's choice

this week after this episode airs. How about that? We'll do that so that you guys can have already heard what this is and what your options will be. Your options are going to be across various different seasons. I forget if we did one from each season

for you guys to choose. But those options are going to be insert whisper voice, Mary Riley. Mary Riley. You will have another Julia Roberts option in Notting Hill. Michelle Pfeiffer in the Russia house And then because we love bad accents

Harrison Ford and Brad Pitt in the devil's own Honestly you can't go wrong with any of those As far as I'm concerned You really can't Good episodes in coming Yes Very excited Love to talk about classic EW

Love to talk about The seasonal preview issues It's going to be great That's going to be very fantastic. It's going to be wonderful. All right, that's coming soon. Right now, though, Chris, we're going to play the IMDB game. So why don't you tell our listeners how that works?

Every week, we end our episodes with the IMDB game where we challenge each other with an actor or actress to try to guess the top four titles that IMDB says they are most known for. If any of those titles are television, voice only performances, or non-acting credits, we'll mention that up front. After two wrong guesses, we get the remaining titles release years as a clue. If that's not enough, it just becomes a free-for-all of hints in our little zoo. Exactly. All right. Chris, do you want to guess first or give first? I'll guess first this week.

All right. So we talked about the legendary and perhaps mythical film The Vintner's Luck earlier. Starring one Miss Vera Farmiga, who we have never done on the IMDB game. So hit me with that. Vera Farminga has one television show. Which is Bates Motel. Which is Bates Motel, where she played Norma Bates. Did that show in, like, was that show the first time that we learned the first name of Norman Bates' mother?

Because whoever made the decision that Norman Bates' mother was just going to be called Norma is genuinely hilarious. I find that. I'm pretty sure we know that. we know that in like the movies I think so maybe the book I mean it's very wild either way

whoever made that decision it's very funny alright Alfred Hitchcock made that decision he doesn't need more credit does he I mean yeah anyway justice for Alfred Hitchcock I think he deserves all the credit in the world

yes like literally that's like not on you know who we don't talk about enough Chris is Alfred Hitchcock I feel like you know one of his like like top three achievements. What? Saying that Norman Bates' mom should be

Norma. Top three. Yes. Easily. 100%. One of the greatest things he's ever done. All right. Three movies. Okay. Her Oscar nomination up in the air. Correct. I feel like the other two are going to be

this franchise but I'm going to just start with the first one, the conjuring. Not the conjuring. Surprisingly so. Because that movie did very well financially. That's... Maybe there's no conjuring on there then.

Which would be weird. And, like, I think she and Patrick Wilson, like, fully, like, elevate those movies. Even the third one is so horrible, but so watchable because of them. Yeah, I think it's very watchable. Also, they tried to defend that twink so dedicated. I'm like, good for them. Okay, I'm going to abandon the Conjuring movies and say The Departed. Correct.

The Departed. A real thankless role for Vera Farminga in The Departed. She's great in it, though. Sure, but like, what the fuck does that movie care about that character, ultimately? It doesn't. Right, it doesn't. Okay, so of her movies, what is she going to be high build on and people, like, watch a lot of? It's not going to be like the frontrunner, because no one saw that movie.

Much as I'm sure it breaks your heart, it's not going to be the many saints of new work. Oh, you mean her second Oscar nomination? Yes. No, her first Oscar win. For first Oscar win. Yes, that's right. Thank you. Right.

From the book of Joe Reed. Vera for my God. Best Supporting Actors 20 cents a good word. That was not a bad call. I'm giving you shit because I know it burns you. It wasn't a bad call. I had no good options.

I had no sense of that category. Before we saw the movie, it wasn't a bad call. Thank you. Um, um, um, um, um, that's coming to, uh, the judge. It's the judge. It's got to be the judge. judge. It is not the judge. I mean, that's

for the better, but... I love that that was your guess. All right, second wrong guess. Your missing year is 2009. Okay, so the same year as her Oscar nomination. Oh, my God. I'm not your fucking mommy. It's orphan. Yes, I'm surprised

it took you that long to get to orphan. Yeah. She's not your fucking mommy. Perfect. Yeah. 2009, the year of orphan. of Vera Farminga's Oscar nomination for Up in the Year, and the year that a heavenly vintage slash the Vintner's Luck is credited for that it supposedly released somewhere.

Who knows where? Busy lady. Yes. New Zealand. That's where it released in 2009. Was New Zealand and Australia, it did not make it into the United States on DVD until 2012. That was its premiere on DVD.

2012, the Vintner's Lock. Holy moly. When people had already stopped buying DVD. Basically, yes. All right. What you got for me? All right, so looping back to Daniel Bruill and playing Nazis, I went into the Daniel Brul Nazi filmography.

We were talking about a movie where he sneers at a woman and says, You and Your Little Zoo. And for you, I have chosen a woman that he wants to be. sneered at you and your little movie theater. Melanie Laurent. Melanie Laurent. Okay. Melanie Laurent, who is also a director,

but I will give you the hint that none of these are her director. Thank you. She is an actress who, it feels like it would be tough, but it does feel like there are some movies that rise above others with her. So I'm knocking on wood that this is not going to be as. as hard as it might seem. Inglorious bastards. Correct.

Now you see me. Yes, correct. The beginners. Like I'm my mother. Beginners. Mike Mills Gritty reboot the Beginners, correct. All right. One more, Melanie Laurent.

If you get a perfect score on Melanie Laurent, that might be one of your finest achievements. I've maybe now reached the, the end, though, of the obvious Melanese. The obvious Melanies is also a movie I'm going to direct about a girl group of emo singers. Or, like, they're, maybe not emo. They're like Heim. Like, like, the obvious Melanies. Yes.

Okay. Melanie Lerot, Melamon. There is something somewhat recently. I feel like Oh, it's going to bother me. Also, people keep, like, bantying about this movie between the sisters fannings, the Nightingale.

Which now is not even supposed to be releasing in 2022. It's supposed to be 2023 now. Even Melanie Laurent is like, yeah, I don't think that's happening, guys. It's been on the horizon for, so long. Yeah. All right.

I literally just need to think of movies that she's been in. Even to just burn guesses at this point. That's what I did with Vera. I was like, I'm going to get this the second I get the year.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm just going to say the first thing that comes to my head. Um, and I feel like it's probably something that she's like in a small roll in sort of like beginners like probably like a

love interest or something um or maybe some she in something this year in 2021 I don't know oh you know what she's in

is um or maybe I'm wrong no I may be thinking of I love these tunnels you're going I confuse her with Saragadden sometimes That is such an insult to Melanie Laurent I'm sorry Saragaden is sometimes good

Or are they both in this movie She's good in one of the Kronenbergs Saragetan are you thinking of Cosmopolis No she's in like multiple Kronenbergs That makes sense they are they are no are they both in this all right if if she's not in this movie still

counted as a wrong guess just because i need to burn guesses enemy she is an enemy she is okay it is incorrect okay okay they're both in that right it's her and sarah again uh yeah it isn't the thing that they sort of look alike anyway whatever whatever whatever whatever whatever gets you there whatever gets me there. All right. She's an Operation Finale, right? Operation Finale. I don't see that on her IMDB.

Okay. The Oscar Isaac, the Oscar Isaac Ben Kingsley. Right. Well, count that as a wrong answer anyway, because I need the year. Okay, we'll count it as a wrong answer. You were right.

It is very recent. It's, okay, it's 2021, which is very recent. recent doesn't happen. I'm going to push you along and say, there's something else that like we talk about never happens on people's known for, and it happened for her. Which is partly why I picked

this. Something that never happens on a known for, but it happened for her. Mm-hmm. A Netflix movie. Yes. And the year is 2021. Okay. Netflix movies. 2021

She is not in the power of the dog Um She plays the power American movie Uh Yeah No No, it's a French director

Who is known for horror movies Oh, oh, oh Oh, um Oh, what's his name the high-tension guy? Yes, problematic fave, high-tension. Alexandra, uh-huh. Aja, yeah?

Yeah, I guess if it's a French, then it would be Aja. Oh, I've not seen this movie, and I can't remember the title of it, but she's, like, hooked up to machines or whatever on the poster, on the one sheet for it. You've got it. She looks like Elizabeth Moss on the one-sheet for it. sheet. It's called oxygen. Would not have gotten that in a bigillion years.

What a weird one. Is that the first Netflix movie we've had in a known for? Is that true? That's crazy. If it's not the first, it's the second. It doesn't happen. All right. Now I'm looking up her IMDB because I need to see what should have been on there. Six Underground, which is another Netflix movie.

God, speaking of Michael Bay. She is in Operation Finale. I was not Crazy. Okay. All right. Good. Why did I miss that? What year is that? Like, 28? No, it's right there. It's 2018. Never mind. Sorry. She's in by the sea, and I don't remember her in by the sea whatsoever.

I guess I only remember Brad and Angelina. I guess she doesn't have a whole ton of other things that she should obviously, that should obviously be on hers. I still say oxygen shouldn't be, but now I'm not sure what else should be. Whatever. She did a movie I've seen with her and Isabella Pair that could have been on there. They should just have the nightingale on there as this forever, forever in pre-production. The nightingale is going to be the next flora plum, you watch. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, the sister's fanning. All right.

We talked for two hours about the zookeeper's wife and really did not talk about the zookeeper's wife very much at all. We had a lot to do. We had to talk about the current Oscar ceremony. We had to talk about Josca Chastain. We had to hype the main miniseries. It's a lot. It was a lot. We hope you enjoyed it.

dear listeners, and starting next week, we have our main miniseries for you. It's going to be so fun. Panic Room. Get into it. It's so good. That's just going to be me, that whole episode. What's that?

Entertainment Weekly. Entertainment Weekly. Also so good. All right. That's our episode, listeners. If you would like more this head Oscar Buzz, you can check out the Tumblr at this had oscarbuzz.tumlr.com. You should also follow our Twitter account.

I'm not doing it again. I'm just plowing through. You should follow our Twitter account. Just do it. At ad underscore Oscar underscore buzz. Chris, where can the listeners find you and your stuff? You can find me in my little zoo because I know how to do only one thing in the world, and that's drive a joke straight into the ground on Twitter and letterbox at Chris V-File.

That's F-E-I-L. You can find me on my little Twitter at Joe Reed, read spelled R-E-I-D. I'm also on letterboxed as Joe Reed spelled the same way. We would like to thank Kyle Cummings for his fantastic artwork and Dave Gonzalez and Gavin Muvius for their technical guidance. Please remember to rate, like, and review. us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Google Play, Stitcher, wherever else you get podcasts. A five-star review in particular really helps us out with Apple Podcasts visibility, so once you're done birthing that baby elephant, write something nice about us, won't you?

That is all for this week. We hope you'll be back next week for Panic Room and Entertainment Weekly and more buzz. Bye. without getting it wrong. I won't give up. No, I won't give it until I reach the end. And then I'll start again. No, I won't believe.

I want to try everything.