This Had Oscar Buzz - 206 – Infamous

Episode Date: August 8, 2022

Before Bennett Miller’s Capote even arrived and made a steamroll Best Actor winner out of Philip Seymour Hoffman, there was an entire other Truman Capote biopic in the can. Charting the same portion of the legendary and controversial writer’s life as he wrote In Cold Blood, 2006′s Infamous cast Toby Jones as Capote along with … Continue reading "206 – Infamous"

Uh-oh, wrong house. No, the right house. No, I didn't get that! We want to talk to Marilynne Heck. This is Truman Capote. The district attorney doesn't take calls from strange women. Who says I'm strange? Will you confirm that there is more than one killer?

Unless the killer was a hypnotist. Beg a pardon, ma'am? It's illogical to suppose there's only one killer. That small town stuff? That suspicion, that gossip. That is your world as much as this, maybe even more. I haven't met them? My dear, I've been in their cells.

He does. have the tender and the terrible side by side. You shouldn't be doing what you're doing. The truth is enough. I've worked on this book, Cecil, see, for four years. Hello and welcome to the This Had Oscar Buzz podcast. The only podcast

bestowed with multiple feathers of cowardice. Every week on This Had Oscar Buzz, we'll be talking about a different movie that once upon a time had Lofty Academy Award aspirations, but for some reason or another, it all went wrong. The Oscar hopes died, and we are here to perform the autopsy. I'm your host, Joe Reed. I'm here, as

always with my homo erotic murderer. Chris Fyle. Hello, Chris. Homo erotic murderer who fully, like, just foremend before he came here. I mean, like, it's, I, Daniel Craig's hair in this movie is straight shoe polish. It is, and I wonder if I would think that if I didn't know what he normally looks like, but I think I would. I think I would. It really does look like he, like, he, like, Shoe polish is the right word for it. That really is the sense. But it's so funny that obviously, and we'll, you know, as is our want, we get ahead of ourselves right away.

This is the same year, Daniel Craig and infamous, is the same year that he's in Casino Royale, which is when his whole career, like, levels up and whatever. And it's funny to think about it because what was the big brouhaha when he got cast as James Bond? It was like, is the world ready for a blonde James Bond, right? All of those headlines, James Blonde, yada, yada. Like, people were, like, mostly English people because, like, they very, very much care about James Bond. But there was this, like, very serious, like, people were actually seriously being like, I don't know whether we can handle a James Bond, who is blonde. And it's funny that in that same year that he is in this other movie where he is just,

hide in his light under a bushel and just like absolutely just fermenting his hair as you put it yeah it's very funny it's a very funny juxtaposition had you seen this movie before watching it for the purposes of this episode I had I had not in theaters but I'd seen this yeah me too not too long after it became available on DVD

so probably in like 07 oh 8 something like that as like a morbid curiosity right i didn't expect to like it i think it exceeded lower lowered expectations for me when i saw it then right and now i i still think it's pretty good it's shocking to me how little it changes from capote and i know they were both being made around the same time they're being made in parallel so it's not like one was copying the other even though this came out in theaters a year after. Yeah, this was filming, like, a month or two

after Capote had rapped, basically. And, well, the thing is, they, the kind of beginning and end, and basically kind of the plot mechanics of this movie are the same, but they have, you know, kind of tonal differences. They have, like, the business of the movie is different. Right.

The big difference with Infamous is that, and the most sort of, obvious one is that it includes a lot more of his life among the socialites in New York City. That's why we have all these sort of glitzy casting decisions with Sigourney Weaver and Hope Davis and Gwyneth Paltrow and all this. And to a point where I wish this movie had delved into that more, if for no other reason than to differentiate it more from Capote. Because once it does get into the business of him going to Kansas and writing about the in cold

blood murders is it's not just that it's the same subject matter, but it like it hits the same themes and it hits the same plot points to the point where he's name-dropping the same celebrity names when he impresses the sheriff's wife to get him access. And I understand that like these are things that really happened. Obviously these are probably oft-told anecdotes within the circles that I mean, you know what I mean? I imagine Truman Capote told his story. 8 billion times at parties and whatnot. And this infamous is based on, at least in part, a book by George Plimpton. So I understand that these are anecdotes that exist.

And yet the similarities, the fact that like the Nell Harper Lee character in both of them is essentially hitting the same beats. That with, I think, one crucial difference that we'll get into later, Truman and Perry are hitting very similar beats, that the internal conflict in Truman is the same in both of them, even though the performances are distinct from each other. And obviously, even though that voice really does tie them together because you really do have to go for the Truman Capote voice if you're going to play this character, right? but it was it was surprising to me watching it again that it was that both projects were just so similar on so many levels oh yeah totally i mean i do think it's weird because in some stretches of this movie this movie looks worse in comparison to capote because it's like that whole like final third of the movie

where Truman Capote begins to like kind of struggle with how much this is consumed his mind, his life, and how it ultimately kind of breaks him. Both movies essentially make the same point that the process of writing in Cold Blood did essentially ruin him or break him. But that is much more successful in Capote, I think, because you get kind of an actual character trajectory and in this movie, especially on this rewatch,

I felt like all of the sudden Truman Capote was like, I can't handle it anymore. You know, just kind of out of the blue, and maybe because the, like, the business, as I put it, of this movie is focusing on some other things before it really, like, you know, centers back to Trump and Capote's experience. Well, and this is why, I think that, oh, I was going to say, you know, that's something that makes, that this looks worse by comparison. but like the comparison to Capote also makes this movie look good because like it you know Capote which is a movie that I love very very much is like bone dry so by comparison all of this like socialite you know vibrancy the stretches of the movie that feel almost more comedic than it is dramatic I think it plays a little bit better than it would if Capote wasn't there I agree with that and it makes me me wish this movie had leaned even farther in that direction. And I understand that like, because it's not enough. It didn't have time to differentiate itself because it didn't know what in this other movie it was going to be differentiating from, very likely. And yet,

I wish, especially with the title, the title is infamous. Originally, it was supposed to be called Every Word is True, which feels like it's more applicable to the Perry Smith case. And yet, it also could pertain to the sort of gossipy nature of him as a sort of, you know, New York gadfly, essentially. And I wish this movie had leaned further into that, if only to give me something different, something else, something where I don't really have to compare it to Capote so often. And then you can utilize this really kind of like wonderful cast and then lean into this idea that Truman is this sort of friend to all, but everybody mostly knows not to trust him, right? Everybody mostly knows not to tell him too much because it'll get around and that

kind of thing. And then you maybe bring in the stuff in Kansas as a, you know, as an extension of that later on in the movie. I don't know. I don't know how I would have done it differently. And maybe it's just sort of the coincidence of fate that make it more of a problem for me. I don't know. It's trying to do a lot of things and maybe be two or three different movies at once. Yeah. That, you know, I don't think it's a bad movie. No, I don't either.

It's fine. It's just like you can see the version of it. That's great. And by that I don't mean Capote. Bennett Miller's Capote. I mean, like, you know. It did make me really, really, really, really want to. go and revisit Capote after watching

this, though. Exceptional film. I watched a bunch of the clips, and I've only really seen it the one time. So Really? Yes, back when it was new. Like, even when we did the queer Oscars draft for screen drafts, I ran out of

time before I was able to rewatch that one, and I sort of felt bad that I wasn't able to do that. So I would really, really, really like to revisit it, and especially revisit the Hoffman and Keener performances, which were both nominated, obviously. But we are not talking about Capote because Capote was successful with the Oscars. We are talking about the movie that came a year later. And, yeah, I'm excited.

A year later, and as if Capote didn't exist, was rather, you know, in the buildup, embraced by the establishment in a way that's still quite surprising before it opened and absolutely no one saw it. I will say, like, kind of kudos to Warner Independent for giving this one the old college tribe. This one made the for real festival circuit. Like Venice, Telluride, Toronto. They pushed it. They got an independent spirit award for Daniel Craig. Like, this movie very could have, easily could have, like, sort of slunk away and been like, well, they beat us to the starting gate. there's nothing we can do now they've won

Capote has won now whatever and Warner Independent did right by Douglas McGrath I would say by you know actually putting the effort into pushing this movie it ultimately didn't

do anything but I imagine if I were Douglas McGrath as frustrated as I would have been by these circumstances surrounding it I would have at least been you know happy for that same for Toby Jones because this was basically kind of a breakthrough role for him

there's something we'll talk about their two performances I don't want to throw it all out there at the beginning but like we'll talk about Toby Jones poor Toby Jones like twice in his career he's been in the lesser less attention version of a biopic where he plays the central character right where he was in the HBO TV movie about Hitchcock the same year as Hitchcock, and then he was in Infamous only a year after Capote, and I don't know, it's too bad.

I like Toby Jones. I think Toby Jones is a very interesting actor. This was the same year that the Painted Veil came out. The Painted Veil came out a few months after Infoenix, and I remember. Also a Warner Independent movie. Also a movie we've done on this podcast, and I remember both of us liking him a good bit in that movie, right? Right, right, right. Yeah.

Toby Jones also noted on-screen romantic partner to none other than Isabella Bair. Oh, wait, in what? In Happy End. Michael Hanukkah's Happy End. God, that's right. I forget so much about Happy End. I forget actors who were in it. I forget...

Listen, people didn't like that movie. I think it didn't get a fair shot. I think it's a good movie. I think whatever inevitable movie about the Trumps that we do not want will not be as good of a movie about the Trumps as this movie is. Here's what I remember. There was a road that leads down towards like a beach, and

there was a karaoke scene where somebody sings chandelier. Right? Yes. Franz Wrigalski does see a chandelier, including with a handstand. The movie ends really funny in a way that

I don't want to spoil. I saw this movie with you. You remember so much more of it than I do. It's very funny. Well, I've seen it again. Okay. Well, there we go. All right.

All right. Well, why don't we jump into the plot description for Infamous and get this show on the road? We've got a lot to delve into sort of extracurricularly. We have, spoiler, two performers in this movie who are reaching our six-timers club. So we have a super-sized, mega-sized quiz for Chris for this. and a very big sort of glitzy starry cast that will probably want to get into the component parts of. So, let's get going. We're going to be talking about 2006's infamous today, written and directed by Douglas McGrath,

as I said, based on George Plimpton's book Truman Capote, in which various friends, enemies, acquaintances, and detractors recall his turbulent career, which to me feels like the genesis of the framing. device in this that doesn't really stick around as much as I would want it to, where all of his friends are kind of giving interview bites about him. But anyway, it's not, it's not, you know, Linda Leavitt's sitting poolside and being the Ricardos, but it's not not, not that. They all look like they're on the set of entertainment tonight. They all look like they're being interviewed by like, you know, who's the guy, who's, I can't remember, the guy who took over for John Tesh, whatever, Mary Hart. They all look like they're being interviewed by Mary Hart. That's a better reference anyway. Okay. Jules Asner for E, something like that. I just realized, listening to the screen drafts on Steven Soderberg, that Jules Azner, Stephen Soderberg's wife, who used to be an E reporter, wrote the screenplay for Logan Lucky under a pseudonym. I never realized that.

I know that she wrote something else, but that is interesting. Yeah. Logan Lucky, the best Soderberg movie of the last many years. Anyway. Incorrect, sir. We'll have this argument later. It is. I love Let Them All Talk, too. Let Them All Talk is a strong second, but Logan Lucky is the best one of his late career.

All right. We'll not get into it. I almost said we'll get into it. We absolutely won't get into it. I promise you that. All right. This movie, infamous, starred Toby Jones, Daniel Craig, Sandra Bullock, Lee Pace, Jeff Daniels, Sigourney, Weaver, Hope Davis, Peter Bogdanovich, Isabella Rossellini,

John Benjamin Hickey, Juliet Stevenson, and Gwyneth Paltrow as definitely not Peggy Lee, even though we all thought that that's who she was going to be playing. We'll talk about that, too. It premiered at the Venice Film Festival on August 31st, 2006, before stopping over in Telly Ride and then Toronto, and then finally premiering in a limited release on October 13th, 2006, and not, I can't imagine it expanded very much. It did not have a very robust box office take.

I will tell you that much. But anyway, Chris, I'm going to pull out my little stopwatch. Yeah. And you're going to get a solid 60 seconds to deliver the plot of infamous. Are you ready? I think so. All right. And begin.

Okay, so we follow Truman Capote in his life in New York City, where he's, you know, always boozing up socialites. and, you know, gossiping and such. He hears about a family murderer, an entire family being murdered in Kansas, and he goes to, you know, research it, do a whole new reportage, and he brings along his friend, Nell Harper Lee.

Meanwhile, he is, like, ingratiating himself to the police force and getting all these type of interviews from all the different people in the town, and he thinks he's going to be done, and he thinks it's going to be a book, but then they catch the murderers, and then he ingratiates himself to the murderers, Dick and Perry.

He and Perry had this weird connection because they have, like, similar shared, dramatic histories, but then there's kind of like a weird, queer connection there. And like, meanwhile as Truman Caputty is writing this book and hyping it up, it's driving him crazy and he's losing his whole life to it.

And meanwhile, the Dick and Perry get into that sentence and then they are executed and Truman's there and he never writes another book again. Boom, with four seconds to spare. Not bad. All right. So... The only time I've ever done it. And you know why that was easy?

Why? Because I'm describing two movies. Yeah. All right. So here's what I want to lead with is, and to be clear, I have not read the book in Cold Blood, nor have I read any of these books about Truman Capote and his life. So, like, I am not an authority. But just from watching this movie and having watched Capote, to what degree are we supposed to take the, lengths to which this Truman Capote, Perry Smith, attraction, you know, sort of torrid, whatever, emotional, perhaps physical relationship that they had, to what degree are we supposed to take that as gospel truth versus the world through Truman's perception? This is somewhat of a departure between the two movies. the first one I think would definitely kind of say that there is a connection I'm not sure factually what all we know or have documented

of what the extent of their relationship was they had a lot of correspondence together and you know Truman Capote was there often enough and you know was present at their execution etc but this movie however, implies that it's, or not just implies, like it kind of outright says it.

It basically says that Perry attempted to rape Truman Capote, and I don't, I feel like we would maybe have some documentation of that. But then also, like, fully, like, says that he fell in love with him during this process. Right. Which I think is interpreted as such by a lot of people, and maybe. Maybe Capote had said it since, but, like, to what extent can you a free person, you know? Well, and so here's where we get at sort of my main differentiating factor between the two films, which is the power dynamic between these two. In infamous, I feel like because Daniel Craig is giving a sort of,

stronger performance. When I say stronger, I don't mean qualitatively. I mean in temperament, in bigger choices. Yes. A stronger performance as Perry than Clifton Collins does in Capote. And I think Clifton Collins is tremendous. He should have been Oscar nominated for that role. I think in infamous, I think Perry has more of a if not upper hand than a more of a leading role in that relationship that those two share. If not dominant, then at least more of a presence. Infamous also brings up that it might have created some strife between Truman Capote and his longtime partner, Jack.

Right. I think in Capote, I think, and this is. part of the reason why I think Hoffman's performance is the superior one and so good, which is not necessarily even to slight Toby Jones. But I think in Capote Hoffman is able

to get across and of course part of that is in the screenplay too, Dan Futterman's screenplay, which writes it specifically in. Get across the power that Truman holds in this relationship and is not afraid to wield.

And And he is definitely, like, he's the aggressor in a lot of it, and not in terms of any romantic relationship, just in terms of what he wants out of that relationship, which is his own selfish, you know, what he needs to get out of him. That scene in Capote, where he's like, you don't know any, you don't know the meaning of any words that I don't know. The only thing I need from you is to tell me what happened on that night. This whole thing is absurd, right? That whole scene. it all up. Infamous doesn't have that and it doesn't have anything that reflects that part of the dynamic beyond these moments where you see that, you know, Truman needs to finish his book.

They both hit, both movies hit the same beat where Truman needs to have a verdict in order to give his book an ending and sort of selfishly hopes for these executions on some level because it'll give his book an ending and he selfishly needs that. but I think Capote gets across far, far better the sort of power that Truman holds in that relationship. Does that make sense? I'm sort of talking around the issue of a little bit. Yes, and I completely agree.

I think another element of it, too, is their relationship is also viewed through, you know, it feels hinted on in this movie where it is kind of explicitly put in Capote. that, you know, Truman sees, looks at Perry and sees, you know, someone very similar, who had similar horrible experiences to him. Yes.

And in another life, essentially, Truman can look at him and say, in another life, I would be a murderer. Yeah. And that is both part of their connection, but also part of why this was such a damaging experience to Truman Capote to have to, you know, live this book that he's right. this book that, like, basically changes nonfiction writing. Yeah, like, that, that is much more clearly defined and interesting than Infamous.

Infamous, I'm not sure that for as much time as it spends on the relationship between Truman and Perry, that it's not, that it's all that interesting. The one thing I thought that Infamous could, like, almost walks up to the line of doing that Capote, doesn't do is this sense of Truman as his own unreliable narrator. And I know we've got a movie coming up where the concept of an unreliable narrator will give us both hives just to hear it again. But bear with me here. But this idea that, because there's some level where everything Truman says you take with the grain of salt, right?

you take with how much of this is self-mythologizing, how much of this is self-serving. We get the part in the movie where he sort of admits the truth of his mother's death, which is not the story that he had been telling other people, and he sort of uses this idea of candidness, weaponizes this idea of candidness, right? He does this with his socialite friends. I'm going to tell you a thing that I'm not telling anybody else and all. of these things are, you know, he's not to be trusted with a story, not because he's a bad person, but because he is, by his nature, a writer, right? You know, something of a fabulous,

something of a embellisher of truths and not necessarily a liar, but like he's in the business of creating a story rather than reporting, which I think is the crux of what you were about, you know, how this changes sort of nonfiction writing and crime reporting and this whole kind of thing. And infamous, because it includes so many of the parts of the story that include his socialite friends and his time in New York, I think really could have zeroed in on that as a theme more heavily, and I think would have been really interesting for that. Yeah, like you almost wish that in cold blue.

was something that was happening in the background of this movie. Yes. Because this movie can both be kind of an interesting character study and a lot of fun when it is, like, him with these kind of somewhat dire, nosy, but also fabulous socialites played by, like, Isabella Rosalini. Yeah. Isabella Rossellini is, oh, wait, I had these all written down, and now I can't think of it. Isabella Rossellini plays Marela Annelli, Hope Davis plays Slim Keith, Sigourney Weaver plays Babe Paley, and my favorite, Juliet Stevenson, as Diana Vreeland, by way of Lauren Bacall, I'm going to say. Like, that's my favorite thing about her, Diane of Reland impersonation, is it really, really, really, really borders on Lauren Bacall in a kind of amazing way. She's so funny.

Yeah. She tells the story about how she has the maid, I earn her money. It's really tremendous. Now, of course, we're coming at this in the summer of 2022, where on Rupal's drag race, Raja has laid down a tremendous Diane Vreeland impersonation. What inspires you now? Purple mittens.

So I was kind of saying purple mittens in my head during all of her scenes. And yet I was really living for Juliette Stevenson's performance. I really wish she had been in more of this movie because she's really, really funny. I mean, it is kind of what you want. It's kind of what they sold the movie on. And, you know, I don't think Daniel Craig is all that good. So it's like a lot of those portions of the movie or whatever. Even Sandra Bullock's Harper Lee.

Pails in comparison, unfortunately. Yeah. Well, I mean, that, I, listen, we love Sandra Bullock. I do, too. I don't, listen, there are very limited circumstances where I'm going to slight Sandra Bullock. But, like, Catherine Keener does a better performance of that role. With less, even. Yeah, yes.

I mean, the movie is structured more that you feel her presence throughout it, whereas, like, listen, me hitting my hard tease but and Sandra Bullock when she exits the movie kind of exits beyond the framing device of you know Linda Levin's in poolside and but it is I do think of

you bring up Linda Levin sitting poolside as a pejorative all I can think of was I loved that device I thought it was so delightful you know it was a really really difficult week we had a lot working again I was so happy to see her. But we came together and we pulled it off.

They did, though, Chris. They did pull it off. They did pull it off. It was a crazy week. So no lies told. No, you're not wrong, though, that the parts of this movie that stray farthest from the case make it a more, make it tonally something distinct in a way that I really would have appreciated. well and in this kind of like uh not quite sleazy but almost e entertainment television gossipy way like a movie about a movie about Truman Capote can be gossipy like that is not a

that is not a you know a sour note to hit with this Capote doesn't hit that but but this one have the portions of like the the research the in cold bloodness of this movie when Sandra Bullock is there. For some reason, Sandra Bullock playing Harper Lee contributes to that. So then in the back half of the movie, when it's not there, you have you know, Daniel Craig

as Branson's finest Danny Zuko. Wow. I don't think he's that bad in this movie. I don't think he's like a highlight, but I don't have a problem with him in this film. I'm maybe being mean

compared to how bad that I think he is. Yeah. Um, because it's fine. It's fine. Yeah. Nobody is outright bad in this movie. But yeah. No, I'll tell you who is, and I don't want to pick on somebody who is less famous than all these other people, but this movie could have really, really done with a better Gore Vidal. I know it's just one moment. It's just essentially one line reading. But like, it's Gore Vidal. You really got to eat with that role. You know what I mean? You've got to show up with a, with a napkin tied around your neck, ready to feast. You need to take your time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you really got a roll around in that role.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Gorvidal. The thing about... The thing about... Carryout food. Last time... Go for it. I request...

I'm not going to... I'm not going to go into some Gorvidal bit right now, but, like, I do have... I'm suddenly thinking of, like, Gorvadol ordering takeout food. Well, yeah, I mean, we're all seen... We are homosexuals who have watched many of Gorvadal. interview clip. We've watched the thing with him and what's his face

whose name now I can't I'm not gonna remember the conservative columnist who he calls a crypto-fascist. Remember? And then and then he gets threatened

with a punch in the face? God, God. I, okay. Buckley, William F. Buckley. Jesus Christ. But like, we just, we where is our gor of a doll?

I was going to say, Wait, are you about to be like we used to have a culture? We used to have a country. We used to have a proper country. We used to have real gay people. Now we get, I don't know. We have. We were just praising the recent happenings of Rupal's drag race.

But I'm like, now we just have Ross Matthew. All right. Well, I do feel that's maybe a little bit unfair. That's maybe unfair, but like, I don't know. We need more famous, mean. bitchy gay and election we can we can have that discussion i do feel like we've got plenty of bitchy people like i don't feel like a lack of bitchiness is our problem but uh uh we can have that to be the thing about goravadal we don't have a gorva doll we certainly don't we certainly don't have

that anymore uh you don't have a truman capote no well no i don't know this i would i would really need to think about it because like we i do feel like we we make Maybe, I think because we are in the soup of a gay culture that is a lot more pervasive than it used to be, that is a lot more, you know what I mean? That we maybe, we take some things for granted and miss the forest for the trees and certain things. But anyway, I would really need to sit down and think about that for a while before. Can I tell you when I was introduced to Truman Capote? Wait, no. I didn't know that.

Very, not personally. Are you kidding me? Wait, what? Yes, he was in delivery. room when I was born? No, my cultural introduction to Truman. Well, wait a second. He was alive in the... No, you're

younger than me, though. I forget that sometimes. Yeah. Okay, fine. I'm pretty sure he died before either of us were born. Looking it up right now. I am going to venture guess that he was alive when I was alive, but let's see. Yeah, he died in 1984, so he and I

have over-overlapped a very little bit. God, he was only 59 when he died. That's sad. He was your nanny. Yes. It was like the omen where he sort of showed up at my parents' house one day. He's your Billy White Law. Yeah, he's my Billy White Law.

That's exactly right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He's bringing in a bunch of Rottweiler. Yep, yep, totally, yep. Is that a Rottweiler in that movie? Anyway. It is. I'm pretty sure, yeah.

When I came into awareness of Truman Capote, did you ever see, isn't she great with Bet Midland? No, I know I'm aware of it, but I did not see it. where she plays Jacqueline Suzanne. Yes, I know of it. Writer of Valley of the Dolls. Right, right. They have, if I remember, because I remember the scene distinctly,

even though I probably haven't seen it in 20 years. Because I had, like, taped it off HBO, and as a young gay boy, I watched a lot of that movie. Yeah. They have either footage or recreate footage of Truman Capote being interviewed about Valley of the Dolls, and Jacqueline Suzanne's. success. And he says, that's not writing, that's typing.

I feel like, we need that kind of bitchiness back. I guarantee you. I guarantee you there. And plus, we still have, like, John Waters. I know that he's, you know. We're a nicer culture, too. Like, you're not going to have, like, JVN being, like, this fool, you know. No, you're right. We are a nicer culture. I, I'm hesitant to complain about that because whatever. I don't know, whatever. This is the whole other, this is literally a symposium that you and I are going to probably disagree about. And we can't, we can't go down this road. It's too much of a, it's too much of a detour. I just wanted to bring up my introduction to

Truman Capote. Yes. They do both say I'm Truman Capote exactly the same. They do. They do. And I wonder if they maybe like went to the same, like, primary source in something. You know what I mean? Some old interview. The same interview. Yeah, essentially. Essentially. Yeah. He's definitely a subject I would love to delve into a lot more. That kind of era of you know, sort of socialites and you know, sort of wealthy New York

ensconced away from everything else that was going on but had these sort of high-minded not necessarily ideals is the wrong word but sort of this sort of high culture airs that everybody would sort of put on. It seems like an interesting an interesting

milieu to be in the right. I mean it is maybe the prototypical like real housewives culture where it's like it's the idea of high culture but also like mining and trash. Like it's the scene of Toby Jones

and Hope Davis buying a giant stack of porn from a new stand. Yeah. Hope Davis and Gwyneth Paltrow in a movie together, that we also, for the first time since another movie we also did, which was proof, that actually came out pretty much exactly a year before this one did, I would say. It's a very important proof. Yeah. So, okay, so let's start with Gwyneth, actually, because she was in the very first scene of this movie. It's the only scene she's in.

She, I would imagine, is doing a favor for Douglas McGrath because she starred in Emma for him all those years ago. He was the director of the Gwyneth Paltrow version of Emma. She, again, as I said in the intro, is not playing Peggy Lee, even though in the run-up to this movie, she had been credited as playing Peggy Lee. At some point, in some press release, when she got cast,

She was going to be playing Peggy Lee. That's what we were all sort of going on to the point where I didn't realize the first time that I saw this movie, that she wasn't. Because if you miss the part where the band leader sort of introduces her as Kitty Dean, you wouldn't know. And then she's gone from the movie. So you're just like, oh, I know that I had heard that she plays Peggy Lee. So I guess that was Peggy Lee. She's... Peggy Lee Estate read that deadline article.

I imagine... And was like, no, no, no. I imagine, that's my guess. Because Kitty Dean is the only real name that you get in this movie that is not a real person. So I imagine that... And she's playing a very Peggy Lee-esque character, even though what I saw on Wikipedia, which Green of Salt Wikipedia, was that the part in the beginning where she stops singing and sort of, it seems like maybe something's overcome her or whatever,

and then she picks it back up again, and it's like, showmanship is something that Barbara Cook apparently did in a performance one time, which is very cool. I like any time when this movie sort of lives on anecdotes because this feels like a movie that is very much about the power of an anecdote. Gwyneth singing in a movie. I'm never going to not like it. Lovely voice. She has a lovely voice.

Yeah. Also, she's singing a Cole Porter song, which again ties back to a previous episode with DeLovely. Yeah, this feels, and that felt very, very correct. This sort of idea. You could just, like, blur this movie into DeLovly, and they are the same. Yeah. Well, and also it just feels like that's the kind of music that, you know, these people would sit around and listen to and just be like, ah, you know, they still don't make them like, they used to anymore. I imagine this was a...

That's what pop music used to be. Yeah. I imagine this was a sort of strata of society that was looking at the... What years does this take place in? Is this early... I believe it's the early 60s. Early 60s, late 50s? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I imagine sort of looking

at the cultural changes that were on the horizon and being like, oh, why do we need it? You know what I mean? Like, that kind of thing. so yeah so that's when it's only seen what give me give me your rundown of the other the we talk about Juliette Stevenson the other women who play Truman's fancy lady friends and also Peter Bergdanovitch and also I mean Peter Bogdanovich could be fancy lady friend um well we have Isabella Rossellini in Laura Linney's

Nocturnal Animal's Hair Thank you She's fabulous I love I'm not like over the moon About Marcel the shell in the way that other people are I haven't seen it yet I'm excited to see it but I haven't seen it I just love that we're living in a moment where we appreciate Isabella Rossellini saying syllables any syllables

Because every word out of her mouth in this movie is exquisite is it, and she is saying probably the most wrote material of all of these supporting players? Yeah, she's there to just be, like, essentially ask leading questions about the case so that he can... What's about the other man? Yeah, yeah, exactly. What's about, yeah. Which kind of all of them are, once that part of the story kicks in, that we don't get any more about him gossiping with Babe Paley and Slim Keith about goings-on in the city anymore.

Then it's just they all exist to ask him about stuff that's going on so that he can advance that story, which is one of the things I build up hype for the book. Which is one of the things I don't love about the movie. That it really just sort of drops all of that, as I have mentioned. So I don't need to keep harping. Well, and they also become kind of interchangeable characters. Like Hope Davis feels like maybe the young hip one of them, you know? Yeah. Yeah. And then Sigourney Weaver, who is the, she has, her big scene is relaying to Truman Capote that her husband is cheating on her.

Right. Bill Paley of the Paley Center and CBS and all of that. Yes. Pioneers, one of the pioneers of the television medium, Bill Paley. You would have thought when you watch this trailer that you are getting a lot of Gwyneth, but in the trailer, you're getting all of, of course. Gwenith as she exists. Basically, yes. Basically, yes. Yeah. So speaking of then Sigourney Weaver and Gwyneth Paltrow, this here episode marks the, as a sort of a first for us. We talk about our six-timers club, where we have reached the sixth film in an actor or actress's career that we've covered on this podcast. This is the first time we've ever reached a six-timers club distinction for two people at the same time. So Infamous puts both Gwyneth Paltrow and Sigourney Weaver

over into Sixth Timers Territory. This is very exciting. We did not do this on purpose. This, as many things we do on this podcast, this sort of came about by accident. Very exciting, though, Chris. And we also missed our last one of our last one of our last one with Julie Roberts. It's fine.

We'll get it. We'll get it. it. We don't have to keep admitting our mistakes. We can do it. We can, we can figure that out. It's fine. When have we ever made a mistake? Never. Yeah. So, right. So our, of course, I'm about to give you a quiz, Chris. So when I rattle off the names of these movies that we've covered by these two wonderful actresses, feel free to jot them down because they will be the subject of the quiz that I will be giving you. Gwenith Paltrow, we've done, of course, her playing silly. Sylvia Plath in Sylvia, her opposite Ben Affleck in Bounce, her being good at math in proof, her being a fucked-up psychologist's daughter in running with scissors, her, what was the plot of possession? In possession. Her being British in possession.

Right. And then her playing not Peggy Lee and infamous. Sigourney Weaver, for her part, played the Queen of Spain in 1492 Conquest of Paradise. She was a older woman hooking up with a younger man in... Right? That's the plot of Tadpole, right? That's the whole thing. Yeah. In the Ice Storm, she is also a lady carrying on an illicit affair, this time with Kevin Klein in the Ice Storm. She's got heavy, heavy eye makeup going on in Exodus, Gods and Kings. She's Sigourney Weaver in the Myrowitz stories. Hi, I'm Sigourney.

She's Sigourney in the Myriad Stories. It is a robust enough cameo for it to count for our purposes. And so, yes, she's playing Babe Palin infamous. So, 11 films in total, Chris. I'm not giving you two separate quizzes. I'm giving you one mega quiz. Mega quiz. So the answers to these questions will be any of those 11 films, all right?

I love this. All right. This, like, reaches very far back into our history. It does. It's 1492 Conquest of Paradise, our sixth episode. So, yes. Yes, we run the gamut here. All right.

So, to begin, which one of those 11 movies was the longest? Oh, God. Which of the two Ridley-Scott? I'm going to guess that it's Exodus Gods and Kings. It's not. Is it 1492? By like seven minutes. It's literally like it's, I think it's, yeah, this is 156 minutes.

1492 is 156 minutes. Exodus gods and kings is 150 minutes. All of those seven minutes are just Gerard Depardier walking onto a beach in slow motion. Yes, or Michael Wincott being threatening in some way or another. Can we talk for half a second? Michael Wincott and Nope is so much fun. Michael Wincott? Michael Wincott, as I said in my letterbox review,

giving Scott Glenn drag in the best possible way. So much fun. Such a good time. So growly. Fucking loved Nope. Loved it so much. Yeah, Nope's fantastic. I can't wait to go back.

Yeah, same. All right, which one of these movies was the shortest? Tadpole. It's like an hour and ten minutes. 78 minutes strong. Yes, it is. All right. Which of those movies got the highest domestic box office total? It's not infamous because that got like a million dollars. Was it Exodus Gods and Kings? It was. Even though it was a bomb? Yes. So the highest grossing of all these movies only made $65 million domestic. So this is not a particularly

lucrative set of movies, I will say, through no fault of Gwyneth's or Sigournese, but still, all right. With the exception of the Myrowitz stories, which was streaming on Netflix, which got the lowest... Damn it, I thought I had that right. No, which got the lowest domestic box

office total, besides Meyerowitz. It has to be infamous. It is infamous. It's 1.15 million for infamous. I will say, wait, there was another one that came close to it and um tadpole it might have been tadpole uh tadpole was 2.89 million i thought there was another one that was like a mill and change but maybe i'm wrong yes sylvia 1.31 million was the second

wow sylvia only made one million dollars yeah yeah yep yep yep all right next question which of these 11 movies got the highest rotten tomato score ice storm no Wow. Ice storm, I believe, was second. To Myrowitz? To Myrowitz, yes. Myrowitz stories got 93% on Rotten Tomatoes. Ice Storm got 85%.

So, yes. The lowest Rotten Tomatoes score. Exodus Gods and Kings. Exodus gods and kings with 30% around. Only 30? I would have thought it would have been lower, man. Yes, yes. Which of these movies are the only two?

Which two of these movies are the only ones to not open in the fourth quarter of the year that they opened in? So opened before September in their year. Possession. Yes. Opened in August. And is it the Ice Storm? The Ice Storm played Cannes. So that would make sense.

But didn't open proper until, opened limited in early fall, and then didn't open wide until December. It's Tadpole. Tadpole was a summer movie. Yes, it's another August movie. Yes. All right.

Which of these movies is the only one directed by a woman? Um, um, um, Sylvia. Sylvia, yes, Christine Jeff's. All right. Which two movies on this list feature a score by Michael Danna? Possession. No.

Oh. Proof? No. Ice storm. Yes. Bounce? Bounce. Yes.

Bounce and the ice storm. Both with scores. by Michael Danna. Which two movies feature a score by Gabriel Yerid? Possession. Yes. Sylvia. Yes.

Very good. All right. Which one of these movies was distributed by Paramount? 1492. Yes. God. You're unsettlingly good at this game. I swear you got.

All right. Which one of these movies, which is the only one of these movies whose cinematographer is an Oscar winner for cinematography? For cinematography. I'm just throwing that out there as a caveat in case somebody wants to come at me with like, they want a short film Oscar or something like that. Oh, right, right, right.

Isn't Exodus Gods and King someone... Exodus? No, that's Darius Wolski. It is. I think. I want to say it's the Ice Storm, because that movie looks phenomenal, but is it 1492? No, 1492 is Adrian Biddle. Okay, is it the Ice Storm?

No, the Ice Storm is Frederick Elms. Is it Possession? It is not possession. Jeez. Is it proof? No. It honestly might be the last one, you guess, which is kind of funny. Is it Sylvia?

No. Oh, my God. It sure as shit isn't Tadpole. It's not Tadpole. You're right about that. Now I don't know which of these I've guessed or not. Is it like Myrowitz stories? No, Myrowitz stories is Robbie Ryan, actually.

Future. Oscar winner. Let's hope. You've maybe guessed everything else except for this one. Did I not guess bounce? You've not guessed bounce, and it is bounce, in fact. Cinematographer Robert Ellswit for Bounce.

Oscar winner for There Will Be Blood. Got it. Yes. All right. Right after you compliment me for... Yeah, I jinxed you. Which movie had the tagline. He's looking forward to a memory he won't have to suppress.

oh that doesn't sound very nice uh tadpole not tadpole oh running with scissors yes running with scissors of course 1492 the he being christopher glumis exodus gods and kings the he being moses um yes all right which two of these movies feature stars of basleermans the great gatsby Okay, so Greg Gatsby has Leo It has Toby McGuire So that is the Ice Storm Correct And there's also Joel Edgerton

There is Carrie Mulligan Um Hmm Oh, Debicki is in that movie She is Hmm I love Fisher

Is Dubicki It can't be Tabickey It's not Dubicki Am I forgetting somebody That is in Great Gatsby Have I mentioned the person Yes, you have

Okay Um I love Fisher Debicky Leo Oh, Joel Edgerton is in Exodus Gods and Kings He is, in fact, he's Ramsey's, I believe. Somewhere under that eyeliner is Joel Edgerton.

Exactly. All right, which two movies on this list feature stars of the movie Zodiac? Okay, so Zodiac is a million people. Brian Cox is in running with scissors. Correct. and Jakey do we have Jakey

in any of these movies? No do we have Ruffalo in any of these movies? No huh Oh, this is hard

Okay, so Jake, R.D.J. Mark Ruffalo, Brian Cox, John Carroll Lynch, ooh, John Carroll Lynch, which was the Sizzy in? Oh, no, wait, Jake's in proof. Yeah, I was waiting for it. Like the smallest cast of all of these movies. I'm an idiot.

You sped right by it. Yeah, okay. Which of these movies is the only one to be nominated for a Writers Guild Award? Ice Storm. The Ice Storm, correct. All right. Which of these movies did Kenneth Tehran say in his review was, quote, about as moving as a month-old Kleenex? Um, bounce?

Bounce. Correct. That seems like something Tehran would not like. Which of these movies did Newsweek's Jack Kroll sum up with a single word, hubris? Oh Exodus Gods and Kings Nope Running with Scissors

Nope Infamous No Great Sylvia No 1492 Yes

1492 Conquest of Paradise All right Which of these movies Did Rex Reed say in his review was, quote, infinitely fascinating, cinematically breathtaking, and largely impeccable. Okay, Exodus Gods and Kings. No.

Okay, because Rex Reed is interesting. Yes. Infamous? Infamous was infinitely fascinating, cinematically breathtaking, and largely impeccable, says noted bitch Rex Reed. So, honestly. That is the end of our quiz.

Christopher, as always, you impressed me with how well you do with this. All right. I think that's probably the best and worst I've ever done at that quiz. Honestly, probably yes. And fitting, given that it was a supersized affair. So we talked about Daniel Craig with the brown hair, the black hair, actually, and you not loving his performance. It was the same year's Casino Real.

but he also, he's the only person from this movie to get an acting nomination at anything. He was an Independent Spirit Award nominee for this movie. This was, of course, 06 was the year that Little Miss Sunshine ran away with, from Sundance all the way to big Oscar nominations. It was a big hit at the Independent Spirit Awards. Alan Arkin won Best Supporting Actor that year. Paul Dano was also nominated for Little Miss Sunshine. Steve Carell continued to not be able to get arrested for his legitimately excellent performance in that movie.

We'll never fail to baffle me. Also nominated Channing Tatum for a guide to recognizing Your Saints. I remember that being a big part of his sort of breakthrough into, you know, Hollywood. Because that and Step Up and What's the Twelfth Night movie? that I can never remember with soccer and Amanda Bynes. She's the man. She's the man. All around the same time, I feel like all of those movies.

And then the fifth nominee was Raymond J. Barry, who is an actor. It's a character actor you've probably seen in stuff. I mostly know him as Timothy Oliphon's No Good Father Unjustified. He was in a movie called Steel City. And that was your Independent Spirit Award field that Daniel Craig was included in. I imagine this was not a fave nomination of yours. Okay, I don't think he's, I don't think he's good, but I don't think he's horrible. Okay.

And we will leave it at that. We'll leave it at that. Yeah, I mean, what else can we talk about the sort of ephemera of this movie? It was a Warned or Independent movie. We talked about when we did our episode on a Prairie Home Companion that was a Picture House movie, which was a indie shingle for New Line that mostly operated under the auspices of Warner Brothers alongside Warner Independent.

This was kind of the golden age of studio-supported indie shingles. We've talked about this before. I have an odd fondness for Warner Independent as an entity, even though they were certainly never like focus features level of like I love their movies, but I was like, oh, it's an always... They weren't around long enough to be. Their roster was always kind of really interesting. The 2006, in particular, other than infamous,

they had the Richard Link Letter, Scanner Darkly, which was his Philip K. Dick adaptation that was Rotooscope animation in the style of waking life. Waking life of the two of them is by far my favorite of those two. I thought a Scanner Darkly was fine. I was not really, I was never really, like into Philip K. Dick as like a youth. I feel like a lot of people sort of maybe get into him in college and whatnot. Did you ever see a scanner directly? I actually haven't. I was going to

mention that. Should I check it out? It's interesting. It's worth checking out. I mean, you know, Winona Ryder. You know, can't go wrong with, you know, Winona in, I mean, 06. By 06, she was kind of, you know, recovering from the shoplifting scandal and whatnot. But, uh, we had freed Winona. We had freed Winona, and we had freed her to participate in post-apocalyptic. I don't know if it was necessarily post-apocalyptic, sort of dystopian-adjacent, whatever was going on in Scanner Darkly. Right, right. A movie I have not seen was the Michel Gondry movie, The Science of Sleep. Which is supposed to be fine. That's Gail Garcia-Bernal is in that? Yeah. I want to say. Yeah. But for a brief second, because, you know, Eternal Sunshine had won that screenplay,

We figured, oh, well, maybe Michelle Gondry makes Oscar movies now, and... And then he was like, hey, bitchy... She's like, by the way, I'm strange. Yes. It's so funny that, like, after Eternal Sunshine, because, like, Charlie Kaufman had been on a streak where he was making movies that were, like, strange, but also very palatable for the Academy. And then Michelle Gondry, he hooks up with Gondry and the two of them get together. And, like, that's the movie that wins Kaufman. the Oscar finally, which

looking back on it now is kind of miraculous that he won an Oscar. And then since then, the both of them sort of flew off into space and decided to make increasingly esoteric slash off-putting films

in terms of awards stuff. I know people really like a lot of Charlie Kaufman's stuff, and I do too, not all of it. I just got flooded with remembering I'm thinking of ending things for the first time in at least a year. Yeah, people really loved that movie, Chris.

What a flash in the pan, and then it was gone. Yeah. Anyway, also Warner Independent in 06, for your consideration, something of a patron saint of this podcast, even though I don't really like it very much. I can't remember. No, it's not a good movie. Yeah.

That was the sort of the big Christopher Guest letdown after the holy trinity of waiting for Guffman, Best in Show, and A Mighty Wind. And I was like, oh, three of my favorite comedies of my lifetime, and then he's making a movie about the Oscars. How can this go wrong? And, yeah, I don't like it. I don't like for your consideration, unfortunately. It relies, I mean, like, we can talk a little bit about it because we,

I've always said, like, if we ever do that movie, it has to be. our last episode. Yes. It relies so much more on plot than the other movies, and because of that, where it's like, this scene has to take us to the next thing of where, like, people are learning about, like, Oscar blogs in the movie and, like... Yeah. Well, here's my question, Chris. There's not as many jokes.

I agree with that. I don't think it's very funny, but part of me also feels like it is, it's a nastier movie than the other ones, but I'll say that with the caveat that if I were a person who did dog shows, would I feel that way about Best and Show? Like, do I feel that way about for your consideration because I'm too in the soup to feel objective about it? I think that's just what the tone of a Christopher Guest movie is going to feel like when it's not funny. I think that's probably true. I think that's probably right. When the jokes don't land, that's what the tone is going to read. It's going to read as mean. Yeah.

I think it is, and granted, and even at the time... Maybe mascots didn't feel mean, but like... I don't think mascots felt mean. I don't think mascots felt much like anything. I'm the apologist for mascots that I thought it was a little bit funnier than people thought, than people gave it credit for. I've also never seen it since the first time I watched it. So many of our listeners are going to be like, what is mascots? Yeah, I mean, kind of.

Listeners, as if Netflix wasn't just a soup, an abyss that is also a... soup where, you know, ingredients float in, never to return to the top. Christopher Guest made a Netflix movie that you have never heard of, probably. I will say, Parker Posey is very funny in it, and Tom Bennett from Love and Friendship is also very funny in it. You know what Parker Posey is very funny in. What? Staircase.

Yes. Rimming. Does anybody know what I mean? Riven, fucking, and sucking. That this woman knew her husband was talking about fucking. this and suckin that God knows what else Rimming

y'all even know what that means it's the greatest line reading in television. It's basically the Tati Westbrook quote. Oh my God. All right. All right. Also we mentioned the Painted Vale was also 2006 Warner Independent. What a time to be alive, the time of Warner Independent

films. One thing I want to say about infamous because it is that festival run is kind of wild. I mean, Capote didn't go to Vegas. I almost said Vegas. Could you imagine? Yes. I'm sure there is some type of Vegas film festival, but like what if we were all like hauling off to Vegas for like a major fall festival in Vegas? No, Venice. Capote didn't go to Venice. What was it Venice that year? Do you have that pulled up? Of the Capote year or this year? This year, the infamous year. You better believe I have it pulled up because this is actually a pretty big

uh like Hollywood movie Venice like they try to say that it is like a new thing was it babble that year was it babble that year? Was it babble that year? Babble is it can that year. I see. Uh some of the titles that listeners may recognize uh Paul Verhoven's black book the black Dahlia which we can't do an episode on because it has that synagogically nomination. Yeah. Bobby notedly are 50th episode. chosen by the listeners

Children of Men God, so good The Fountain, a movie I would love to talk about. We're going to do The Fountain at some point. We definitely will. Sandwich that because we maybe have an idea then. Hollywoodland. Failed Ben Affleck, Oscar vehicle.

Hollywoodland. Let me go through the rest of these. Paprika, the animated film Paprika, The Queen. Sure. Sure. And then the Golden Lion winner is Zhajanke's Still Life. We are both mountains made apart. I know. I've never seen Still Life. I should. I should put that on my list. Still Life's good. I like some of the other ones more. Did you ever watch Ashes, Pyrriss White? No. I, I know. You would love that movie. I know. I really do have to. That was one of those where the demands of what I needed to watch for that award season.

Once I had to, like, you know, work essentially and, like, write about some stuff. That sort of kept falling to the bottom of the list because it wasn't really in any kind of conversation. And I didn't see it at whatever festival it played at. Was it TIF? Yes, I saw that on my last day. I should have just seen it at Tiff. Yeah. And I was at the point where I was like, okay, I have to store up every ounce of energy that I have to give my full self to this movie.

Yeah. And then I have nothing. As soon as I leave this theater, I have truly nothing. left to give. And I loved it. Love that movie. Nice. You would like that movie a lot.

All right. I definitely do want to watch it. It is on my list. So, yes. Yeah, that's a cool Venice. That's a good time. Catherine de Nouve was in charge of the jury. They did not give any prizes to infamous.

Was infamous in competition? Oh, wait. I thought it was in competition? Maybe. I don't, I didn't, I ask that as purely an open-ended question. I do not know whether it wasn't. Yeah. Well, no. It looks

like it was in a sidebar. But it's still premiered there. And then still goes on to Telluride, which Capote World premiered at plays, I guess, Toronto, too. I see. But it's just, you would understand why this

movie, given the cast that it is, that can show up at a premiere on a red carpet. Yeah. Yeah. Why that would get booked at a big festival. I should also mention, I said that Daniel Craig was the only cast member to be nominated for anything. That's not true, Ellen.

No, it's not. Toby Jones was actually one British actor of the year at the London Film Critic Circle that year, beating out a really interesting, I would say, lineup, including his, I would imagine, a rival for roles in Timothy Spall. I imagine Toby Jones and Timothy Spall are up for a lot of the same parts. Timothy Spall is a little more gruff. Toby Jones has a more, you know, light-hearted aura. I agree, but I still feel like a lot of the stuff that I see Timothy Spall playing,

I'd be like, I could see Toby Jones doing that. Like, that, to me, feels like it could be. Anyway, did I tell you I rewatch Secrets and Lies on my plane to my vacation? You did. Timothy Spall, in the pantheon of great, saying the title of the movie, in the movie? You know I love that. You know that it's a secret passion of mine. We should all love that. If you don't love it, you should.

You don't know how to have a good time if you don't love when that happens. But in secrets and lies, this is all real good way. Other nominees at the London Film Critics Circle and Best British Actor of the Year, Christian Bale and the prestige, Christopher Nolan's the prestige, Sasha Baron Cohen in Borat and my once-in-future husband, James McAvoy in The Last King of Scotland, a movie where... Once in future, so you've divorced, but you want to get back with him.

Yes, yes, yes. Listen. Why would you divorce James McAvoy? Because, you know, he could, he had better prospects, and then, you know, he had his fun. Oh, it wasn't your decision. No, no, no, no, it was not my decision. No, but he's, you know, he came back to me. Or he will come back to me, I guess.

Last King of Scotland, a movie where you see his little bum bum, and it's nice. And more. Yeah. Yeah, it's good. All right. You get the full Halloween candy bag. That's not the only other award that it was received. What?

Sandra Bullock was Supporting Actress of the Year from the Hollywood Film Awards, which we have not talked about recently. Cursed. Cursed thing. Cursed it. They were given out in the summer. Sure. And it's always like, okay, your publicist has gotten this for you type of awards.

We talked about them in the past. I don't think they exist anymore, but, like, they used to be these real, like, okay, come on, until they pulled it out for somebody that it was like, okay, maybe people were on to something. So she wins this award, but it's also for another movie. It's infamous and another movie. Which Sandra Bullock movie do you think it was? 2006, or would this have been a 2005 carryover? I believe this is 2006.

So not Crash. I was going to mention, I didn't mention this before, this really was in the thick of Sandra Bullock I'm going to say trying for Oscar, and know when I say that I don't mean that as a pejorative, but like Sandra Bullock taking roles that could plausibly lead to

Oscar success and just and then premonition and not getting them like crash everything went right for crash except for Sandra

Bullock getting an acting nomination everything went wrong for infamous and the role that she played got an acting nomination

for somebody else in another movie you know what I mean like just just the the fates were against her around this time

she's not bad in the movie it's just everything that she is tasked to do is everything that

Catherine Keener was tasked to do, and it's just like... Yeah. Catherine Keener just, like, does it without even speaking. And also, Catherine Keener's in the better-written movie. Like, it's... Right, right. And, like, that relationship is better written in that movie. Like, I feel like...

With less screen time, it's more impactful. Right, right. Like, the other movie that they nominated her for supporting actress of the year, or awarded her, is the last... Lakehouse. Get the heck out of here. I've never seen the lakehouse. A movie that I believe she is first built. Is that her and Keanu and the Enchanted Mailbox?

Yes. I should see that movie, even though I've not heard great things about it, but I should see that movie. Why didn't they call it The Enchanted Mail? They should have, right? They should have called it Sandra and Keanu and the Enchanted Mailbox, because that's honestly what sells tickets to that. Like, let's be real.

Let's be clear. It's time to be real. And when I say that, I mean to admit that the lakehouse should have been called Sandra and Keanu and the enchanted mailbox. It's time to be real. It's like a selfie of Sandra in a like oversized cardigan and the inside of her mailbox. I was going to say, it's time to be real. The one side is Sandra peering into the mailbox. And the other side is Keanu Reeves at the other side of the mailbox.

That's the only way I will approve of Be Real. I think it's a cursed thing. I think it's a horrible thing for the culture. I hate that it exists, but I like it for that particular purpose. This is what I thought about Be Real, and then I got on there. And Be Real is way more just like sign of life check-in app than anything. Like, most, I do think most people, like myself included, like it's not necessarily flattering selfies. But like, ultimately I do think it's depressing me a little bit more because I am doing

one of two things on my B-reels. I am working at my death or I am watching a movie with a cocktail. So people think that I am a shut-in who never I don't need that kind of reminder about my life. I don't need a reminder of the monotony of my life. And certainly

I am not putting pictures of myself available to anyone where I look... Well, it's not open. You don't have an open profile. It's just who you're friends with. Even that. I don't like getting my picture taken when I feel like I look okay. I'm certainly not going to have my picture taken

when I look just like sitting on a couch doing work absolutely not no I think it's a horrid thing I reject it Mary we love you we reject this blasphemy but it's me about Be Real All right should we should we Benedetta would have had great be reels

All right should we move on to the IMDB game Yeah All right tell the children Every week we end our episode with the IMDB game, where we challenge each other with an actor or actress to try to guess the top four titles that IMDB says they are most

known for. If any of those titles are television, voice-only performances, non-acting credits will mention that up front. After two wrong guesses, we get the remaining titles release years as a clue. If that's not enough, it just becomes a free-for-all of hits. That indeed is the IMDB game. Chris, would you like to give first or

guess first? I'll give first. All right. So, we literally just talked about Sandra Bullock. winning a dubious, we shall say, supporting actress award from the Hollywood Film Awards. Who do you think they gave their breakthrough actress award to? In 06? Yes.

Like Rinko Kikuchi? No. Jennifer Hudson? Like somebody like, like... No. Was it somebody who was Oscar nominated at all? No. Oh six.

Perhaps somebody who had already been in... Multiple breakthrough roles. Great. From the motion picture, Bobby, your challenge is Lindsay, Jesus, H. All right, well, we've just done a Lindsay. All right, parent trap.

Parent trap, correct. Perhaps her actual breakthrough. Yeah, I would say. She was on another world before that. I need to mention that. I'm contractually obligated to make. mention. She was on the daytime soap opera Another World, playing Allie Fowler

as a little kid. You know her character's name. Well, Allie was the daughter of Amanda and Sam, and see, Amanda was the daughter of the great publishing sion of this family, the sort of central family, and she was like the daughter of the super couple

of the show, so, like, that's a prime position. And then she started dating this musician named Sam, who had, like, long hair and, like, did they really approve of him and was he like good enough for the Corey family and ultimately they fell in love and had this like torrid romance and she got pregnant and then she had Ali and Ali was played by several different actresses along the way but at one point it was Lindsay Lohan so there um mean girls correct all right um all right I think when Lindsay played Allie she had a crush on Jake maybe who was

like this adult who was like this roguish guy. Are you going to just be filling all of your time with her? That's why I'm thinking. I'm thinking. No, okay. All right. So I don't think it's going to be something like, oh, is it like Confessions of a teenage drama queen? Incorrect. Damn. No perfect score for Lindsay for you. I was hoping. Oh, this is a movie that I keep forgetting even though it was like very popular at the time, but Freaky Friday. Freaky Friday. Correct. All right. So I got three. All right. And Jamie Lee Curtis was conceivably 8th, 9th? I always feel like her chances were a little bit elevated

from people who thought she should have. Like, I know she got, like, the Golden Globe nomination and whatnot, but, like, I don't know if Oscar voters were looking at the Freaky Friday remake for nominating purposes. What year was that? I do feel like Disney kind of pushed her, O3. O3? Maybe. Not a great best actress year.

Yeah, but there was a lot going on that year. I don't think she beat out Kidman's vote total. I don't even know if she beat out. beat out, like, Jennifer Connolly's vote total, given how well House of Sand and Fogg did in the other acting categories. Right. I don't know.

That's worth digging into at some point, but... There's also a lot of comedy actress stuff going on. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Scarjo, et cetera. Yes. You have one movie and one wrong guess. All right.

All right. What else, Lindsay? I don't think it's Prairie Home Companion, even though I think it should be, because she's excellent in that. I don't think it's like Georgia Rule, even though that would be funny. I don't think it's the sexy sex movie that she was in. The Paul Schrader movie.

What was the Paul Schrader movie? The Canyons. The Canyons, which I saw at a Lincoln Center screening with, like, Dina Lohan like a row and a half away from me. It was weird. It was weird. She watched the movie, like, on her phone. I wasn't paying that close of attention to her, but she was literally taking every photo op available to her after this movie.

Lindsay was not at the screening, but Dina definitely was. Or if at least if Lindsay was at the screening, she wasn't, like, publicly at the screening. She might have, like, slunk in or whatever. Dina Lohan just hangs out at the Walter Reed. She's, like, you know, checking out of Hoshan movies. Yeah, Tina Lohan loves art in that way. like she's a very she's a connoisseur um what is lindsay's fourth movie um can't give you any hints yet

all right you know what we did this for the f-cinema scores draft it did get a lot of attention so i'm going to guess i know who killed me i know who killed me yes that's it yep yay okay all right almost a perfect score i shouldn't have guessed teenage drama queen that was silly that was dumb she didn't have a song from that movie though she's on that poster probably no less the nine times. All right. Lindsay Lohan. All right, that's not a bad,

that's a pretty accurate known for. That's kind of the four things that she's known for. So there we go. All right. For you, Chris, in Infamous, playing the sheriff in Kansas is Jeff Daniels,

his counterpart in Capote for that same role was Mr. Chris Cooper. So, why don't you give us Chris Cooper. All right. Adaptation. Yes, his Oscar win. His Oscar win.

American Beauty. Yes, arguably his breakthrough. I know he had been in things before that that people took notice of, but I feel like American Beauty was a level up. I'm going to take a guess that American Beauty is the oldest movie on his known for, though he had like John Sales movies. Yeah, he was in. Lone Star, I believe, right?

So I don't think anything older than American Beauty is going to be on there, but the question is what the hell else would be there? I mean, I think October Sky is not there, though that's, like, super top of mind.

I'll just say it, October Sky. Incorrect. Not October Sky. I just needed to get that out of my brain. Um Christopher Cooper Reboot Hanging with Mr. Cooper

But with Chris Cooper Yes I'm stalling Yeah now who's making fun of me for talking about it I know I need to do like Wouldn't you love to have a soap opera to talk about it about now? I need the family lineages for like Dawson's Creek or something That's a soap I watched

Not technically a soap but like Come on. Jesus. Chris Cooper. What's the... Why can't I think of it? The movie where I can see Chris Cooper crying. And I'm also thinking of her, which he was entirely cut out of.

If it's the movie that I'm thinking of when I think of Chris Cooper crying, I really I'm mad at you that you can't pull this title. Oh, shit. Is Capote one of them? No, it's not. Okay. All right, two strikes. Good. I need these years. Your years are 2007 and 2013.

2007, 2013. Okay. Obviously both post his Oscar, so I was on the right track. Yes, he were. Is he crying in one of these? movies? I don't believe he is. Hmm. What was the Chris Cooper movie you were thinking of where he was crying? Little Women! Oh my God! Come on!

I was crying when Chris Cooper was crying. I'm saying, when Chris Cooper cries in that movie, I cry. What a fucking nice man. Should have been nominated. Should have been Oscar nominated. I'm going to need more hints because Chris Cooper is like the hardest brand of person for this game. He's on the poster for both of these. movies, although he's only a lead in one of them. Is one of them the John Sales movie that

he... No. It's like a political movie. Okay. No, it's not... No, none of these are John Sales movies. He's on the poster for one of them. One of them is kind of a quasi-political thriller,

although more heavily on the thriller than on the political. Is it like the Adjustment Bureau? No, but you're not far off. It's a little less sci-fi. It's more grounded in plausible reality. Breach. Yes, breach, which I remember being very well-received at the time.

That's 0-7, right? That's the 0-7. Yeah. Your 2013, as I said, he's on the poster for that one, too, but he's not a lead. It's kind of a memorable poster. With him on it. It's a disappointing movie, even though I find it quite watchable. Is it a summer movie?

No, I believe it was a fall movie. A disappointment, 2013. So this would have been the gravity 12 years of slave year. Nine people on this poster. Oh, Jesus. Okay. It's not like, Ides of March, that's not even the right year. That's like 2011.

That is 2011. Nine people. Yeah. Ocean's nine. You, I know you don't like this movie. We could not do it for this podcast. Because it does have a nomination.

Does it have an acting nomination? Oh, it's August Osage County. Everybody on August Osage County has it in there known for. God. Yes. They're all on the poster. It is a memorable poster. It's the one where Julia's tackling...

If I remember correctly, he might cry when he has that confrontation. That's why I hesitated. That's why I hesitated. I couldn't quite remember if he cries in that or not. But, yeah. So I hope I didn't mislead you by saying he doesn't cry. Maybe the only person who's appropriately cast in that entire movie. Well, Julian Nicholson rules.

Julia Nicholson's great in that movie. I really think she's fantastic. performance in that movie. Yes, I would agree. Although again, I find that movie very watchable. And I think for as much as, you know, I like watching Merrill work in that movie, I will say. She came to work. All right. Yeah. All right. So there we go. Good job. All right. Infamous. Infamous. Not bad. Not great. Makes me want to watch Capote. That's kind of the long and short of it. All right. that's our episode listeners if you want more this had oscar buzz you can check out the tumbler at this had oscarbuzz dot tumbler.com you should also follow our twitter account at had underscore oscar underscore buzz chris where can the listeners find you in your stuff you can find me on twitter and letterbox at chris v file that's f e i l yes find chris bemoaning the lack of gorva dolls in our culture uh on letterboxed and twitter i am on twitter at joe read i'm also on letterbox

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