This Had Oscar Buzz - 209 – A Walk on the Moon (with Tara Ariano)

Episode Date: August 29, 2022

This week, Tara Ariano returns to us to talk about a forgotten and quite lovely independent film from 1999, A Walk on the Moon. The first feature directed by actor Tony Goldwyn, the film stars Diane Lane as a late 1960s housewife who has a sexual awakening with a hippie blouse salesman (played by Viggo … Continue reading "209 – A Walk on the Moon (with Tara Ariano)"

Uh-oh, wrong house. No, the right house. I didn't get that! We want to talk to Marilyn Hacks. I'm from Canada. I'm from Canada water. She was only 17 when she had me. Sometimes I just wish I was a whole other person.

But in the summer of 69, everything changed. A man walked on the moon. Woodstock went wild. And my mother became the woman she always wanted to be. It's a tie-dye. No one will buy these. They will if they see you in one. Husband's got to hate it.

He's going to love you, man. Look how sick's you. I miss that, Pearl. He's the boss. man. Why didn't you sleep with a dress man? At least that way you get a whole outfit. You've had your chance. No, I didn't. Hello and welcome to the This Had Oscar Buzz podcast, the only podcast that makes a little noise when Tina Fey tweaks Adam Driver's nipple. Every week on This Had Oscar Buzz, we'll be talking about

a different movie that once upon a time had Lofty Academy Award aspirations, but for some reason or another, it all went wrong. The Oscar hopes died, and we are here to perform the autopsy. I'm your host, Joe Reed. I'm here as always with my blouse man, Chris Fyle. Hello, Chris. There was no other way to interview for this episode. There's no choice. The thing that struck me this time is that like blouse man seems like old-timey gay slang. Famously, I am a blouse.

The IMDB synopsis refers to him as a free-spirited blouse salesman. That sounds like a euphemism for a homosexual. Yeah. Yeah. It does. And yet he's the straightest guy in the movie. He's like, hey, hey, hey, hey, you want to buy some shirts? Some shirts? I got these new tie-dye shirts. I got these shirts for you. Also, the shirt that she buys, the purple shirt that she buys, is not tie-dye. It's like an umbrae, and then it has, like, it has, it has, it's tie-died. It has those circles. They're like circles. They're just like prints on there, but they're not actual, like, tie-dye, like. That's a tie-dye technique. I feel quite certain. Sorry.

We're pivoting to being a tie-dye pod. We are a fashion podcast now. No, do you remember, though, the Seinfeld episode where Kramer gets license plates that say ass man? Of course. And then later, Frank Costanza gets mad at him because he thinks he was making a pass at Estelle. And he just goes, ass man. Ash man. I'll give him ass man. That's the tone that I was getting whenever.

Lee F. Schreiber would say blouse man in that big confrontation scene. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Big that energy. Well, you're already hearing her. So why don't we... No, no, no, no.

No. This is perfect. This is perfectly good. We have a special guest for this episode on A Walk on the Moon. We have been trying to put this one on the books for a while. Tara has been strenuous about wanting to talk about this movie. And I had never seen it. So this was my responsible friend telling me there's a movie you should see because you would like it. And it turns out, yeah, I did.

So our special guest. Good reason because it's a great movie. Yeah, yes. That and it's a summer movie. So every time summer was coming around, it was like, this is the time to do it. Very much so. Okay. So this episode is dropping at the end of August.

Correct me if I'm wrong. Wasn't Woodstock at the end of August? Maybe. I mean, it was after the moonwalk per this movie. I was only like 10 years old that year, so like I barely remember. It's probably around now because another fucking documentary about Woodstock 99 just dropped. So I assume it's the anniversary is like right around when we're recording. I haven't watched that one, but I remember the first one, the one on, was it HBO, did it?

HBO Max did the first one. Yeah, because it was the ringer, right? Yes. I remember feeling without, with everything else that was going on, sort of pleasantly smoking. because so much of that documentary was like, well, the music obviously sucked because it was all like limp biscuit and rap, like rap metal, like that kind of genre,

which like was the worst genre. Which talk happened in mid-August. Yes, 15th to the 18th, I also just looked it up. Anyway, once again joining us for, this is your third episode, correct? Yes, with us? Yes. After talking about both Never Let Me Go

and the Family Stone with us, co-host of the Extra Hot Great Podcast and the again with this podcast and the Listen to Sassy podcast, all of which you should be listening to. Thank you. Contributor to GQ and Vanity Fair, among many others. Tara Ariano, welcome back to this at Oscar Buzz. Hello. Thank you for having me. Thank you for joining us bright and early.

And I imagine if it's hot where I'm at, I imagine it's a lot hotter where you're at. Yeah, I'm in Austin, Texas. The weather outside isn't on my business, Frank. Our house is hermetically sealed starting in about May, so the AC is, the AC is in effect. It makes that Tupperware sound whenever you open the door where it's just like, shoo, yeah. Yeah, basically. I mean, I let the dogs out last night, and it was a tiny bit cold, and I was like, oh, winter's coming. Intriguing.

Yes. But it is a perfect time to talk about a walk on the moon, a summer movie, as previously discussed. So, okay, so make, I guess make the case, but like, it's a pretty obvious case, as you're saying, it's a summer movie. Why were you so psyched about doing a walk on the moon for us? It's sexy. It is. It's very sexy. It has a great performance, I think, by Diane Lane in an understated mode.

It's not overblown. Yes. Gives you Leah Shriver, mostly off screen as the cucked husband, so you don't realize he is also very. sexy. They have to hide him from you so you don't remember. Yep. It's true. But yeah, most of the sexy sex is happening with the aforementioned Blouseman played by Vigo Mortensen. And it has a lot of your faves, Anna Pacquin, as the daughter, Tova Felcha as Marty's mother, Leo Schreiber's mother. Yes. Which when I was watching this again this time, I looked up, how old was she when she made this movie in my age now? And that was rude.

I literally had that thought of, like, is she old enough to be playing this role? She's 14 years older than Leah of Schreiber. She would have been 14, which actually generationally... It's possible. It is possible. And young parenthood is, you know, a plot point in this show. It's certainly something you could plausibly fudge. Yes.

So, yeah. I imagine this point in her career, she was on Law & Order a bunch. Yes, as Daniel Melman. Ann Melnick era. Yes, the eventually disgraced defense attorney, Danielle Melnick. Oh, yes, right, Danielle Melnick. What was her downfall? She was fixing a case or something like that?

Yeah, the usual. The usual with defense attorneys on that show. Acab, including law and order. Yes, yeah, exactly. Wait, I was going to say something, and now I totally lost the plot of it. Great conversations with Tovafelcha and other actresses on porch cinema. Yes. Yeah, exactly. Oh, here's what I was going to say is our previous episode, Chris and I talked about a movie, This Is Where I Leave You, that was about sitting Shiva with a family that did not seem in the least bit plausibly Jewish. Oh, yeah.

And we talked about how, like, that movie kind of writes itself in a little bit of an excuse and being like, Mom, wasn't even Jewish and we didn't even practice and all that kind of thing. This is a movie where, and again, I grew up Irish cast. could not have been more experientially different. And then I always, but I always look at movies that are, or even like Marvelous Mrs. Maisel or something like dirty dancing. Anything that talks about like this experience of going to the cat skills as you're like summer place with like summer people who you only ever see maybe during the summer. And this sort of like discrete experience that you have in the middle of the year or whatever. I'm so jealous of that experience.

it seems like such an interesting slice of people's lives. Well, especially for you because you live in New York, like you're, you are experiencing exactly the thing that, that holiday camps were created for, which is get the fuck out of this hell of a city in the grossest months of the year. Yeah. And enjoy the beautiful cat skills. There's a, there's a moment where she's, where Pearl, played by Dan Lane is, is walking back from, like, she's, she's walked into town to get some groceries or something.

And she's walking back and like a freak rainstorm happens. And it's so gorgeous all around her. Like the green does not look natural. It's so emerald just glowing around her. It's like, man, New York's got it all. Really. Well, and like I am a person who, and maybe it's because I didn't grow up with any of this where the idea of sort of regimented activity is a thing that I bristle at a little bit. And yet I look at this where it's like, you know, the blouse man is on the premises, the ice cream man is on the premises, the mahjong tournaments at five. The Knishman is here. The conishman is here. All of those announcements, by the way, made by Julie Kavanaugh, the voice of Julie Kavanaugh, which I did not catch on to until about halfway through the movie. All of that, again, because I didn't have any of that, I look at that and I'm just like, oh, part of that does seem like a little bit like your high school, like, PA announcer or

whatever, but also like Big Brother, because she can see everything that's going on. That is true. Where is she located on this little, like, campgrounds or whatever? She can see every nook and cranny because she is constantly commenting on what is happening. Yeah. Mm-hmm. A friend of mine did essentially Jewish summer camp throughout her youth.

And I was talking to her about that because, again, that is an experience I never had. Sleepaway camp was completely foreign to me in any, in any possible way. Oh, wow. Both of you. You would not get me to go to a camp. Absolutely not as a child. I went to normal sleepaway camp. for two different summers and then after that I started going to band camp so there you go

that was my journey but but yeah I see I see the appeal of this where it's like it's not the regimented part which is like it seems like activities are happening and you can do them or not like it's like you're being bossed around but but the the idea of like there are summer people and you see them every year it's like that's the that's the appeal of camp for kids as well that you go to the same camp and then you become a counselor and whatever but I you know Having some of this organized and, you know, it seems like it would be a little more fun than just going to a cabin if you had one or a cottage or you might be more isolated. Whereas this, it's like you just walk across the way and find someone to play cards with you or read your tarot cards. Or read your tarot cards.

And all of the little cottages have those like little like screened in porches and whatnot. It's just like these very kind of, it reminds me a little bit of the places we would stay when we would go to Cape Cod, which was like infrequently. through my youth, but like enough that I have, you know, really good memories of them. And we wouldn't be able to afford like these big sort of like fancy beach houses or whatever. But they'd be this, these little sort of like cottages near the water. And I don't know, all of that, that whole vibe appeals to me. I also thought the people who organize this, your whoever Julie Kavanaugh is behind the microphone or whatever and all these other people must like live for this part of the year where like all they must like put a lot of planning into it. They're planning the next year, the second that they get home.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I like that. I feel like that would be me. Yeah. I feel like that would be my role. Yes, it would be a good mix of like, these are the things we always have. And then these are some of the new things we're trying.

Because you see a little bit of this in dirty dancing as well, where, which is a similar setting with, you know, it's also set at a holiday camp where it's like the new hot dances are coming. And it's, ooh, it's racy, but we're going to try it. So, yeah. Yeah. What I kind of liked dynamic-wise about this that felt different than dirty dancing, they felt more wealthy and dirty dancing than here. Oh, for sure. Yes. Suburban families, you know, these little shacks that they're staying in for the summer are not that nice.

But, like, you know, it's, like, I don't know. It's different. Like, I didn't feel like I was watching some movie about rich people, you know. Yeah. Well, there's a, and then there's sort of a class reference to that, too, when we find out that Marty and Pearl met when he was working. had a nicer, they say hotel, not a camp, where her family was staying. And so it seems like, oh, she was the baby of their relationship. Right. Right. Some guy, not working his way through an Ivy Leeds school, just hoping that the owner would put him through college and then he

fucked up. Also, one of the things that I like about this movie that is about sort of, you know, having an awakening, a, you know, a sexual awakening. It's paralleled with her daughter who is sort of coming into her time as a woman. She has a first period. She has her first boyfriend, all of these experiences. And yet it does that without using the crutch of demonizing this setting or the other people in this setting as small or provincial or mean or, you know, sort of nasty to them. Even Tova Felcha, who is the closest this movie has to an obstacle that Diane Lane needs to overcome up until the husband finds out. She's portrayed. very sympathetically and you know she's obviously against this affair that diane lane is having

but she's not like nasty about it at any moment especially considering she's marty's mother right right she's her mother-in-law like it would be you know she's giving off the vibe at first where you're like wait whose mother is she because she's extraordinarily like nice and and understanding about it where she's just like i know what you're doing and cut it out yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah um Well, before we delve too far into the plot of it, then, maybe we'll do the 60-second plot description, and I'll pull out my little stopwatch, and we can get going with that. We are talking this week about the 1999 film, A Walk on the Moon, directed by Tony Goldwyn, yes, shirtless villain from Ghost and Bad President from Scandal, Tony Goldman. and said, you will be a director now. Dead husband from Bounce, flowers in the door yard herself.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, very good. Gay person on designing women who helps teach everybody about tolerance for people with AIDS. I watched that scene again. I've been, I'd never watched designing women growing up. I was talking about this with somebody else. I was, we were an NBC house when I was growing up. So Designing Women was not on my radar. Same thing with Murphy Brown.

But Designing Women is all on Hulu now. And so I've been defaulting to that as my like, I have a half an hour to kill. I'll watch something. I want to watch something sort of like relaxing and nice. And so I'm making my way through. I'm almost through the first season now. What a good show. It's really good.

What a genuinely, really fantastic show. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, so I've been enjoying that. Walk on the Moon, back to Walk on the Moon, written by Pamela Gray. We'll get into that. She had a big year in 1999, starring Diane Lane, Vigo Mortensen, Leah Friber, Anna Paquin, Tova Feltcha, the vocal stylings of Julie Kavanaur, as I mentioned. This premiered on April 2nd, 1999, and it's a really good movie. Tara, any questions before I hit the stopwatch for 60-second plot description.

All right, yes, I'm ready now. All right, your time starts now. Pearl and Marty Cantorwitz are escaping Brooklyn for the summer with their two children and Marty's mother, Lillian. They are going to a holiday camp in the Catskills. Most of the time, Pearl is alone with the family because Marty can only spend weekends there. He is a TV repairman back in New York. So she has a lot of downtime, some of which she spends with the blouse man played by Vigo Mortensen. he is indistinctly sort of sexy with everyone, which I'm sure we'll talk about.

But they definitely have a vibe. And the night of the moon landing, she has him come up to the camp and they have sex in his truck bus. And then an affair continues. Lillian, played by Tova Felcha, knows she is not happy and tries to get Pearl to stop. And Pearl does try to stop, but not that hard. And then Marty finds out and it's all bad. Or is it? And with three seconds to spare, you've got time.

I, anytime I do a 60-second plot description, I approach it with the frenzied manic energy of like the McAllister family in Home Alone trying to catch the plane. Yeah. Where it's just like, we're running around like Madcap. You have the calmest approach to that. I envy your energy. Well, I mean, I left out. a lot like the daughter has a has her first period while they're there but you know we already talked about that scene was so fantastic too when she tells tova felt you that she had a period and

she slaps her and she goes that's what my mother did it's tradition and Anna Pacquin goes that's a stupid tradition and she goes it's the stupidest goddamn tradition and then Pacan slaps her back I was like this that was the moment where I was like okay this movie is very fun and interesting and doing more than it needs to yes in a in a really interesting way I agree This, I mean, you talk about this all the time, but this just feels like the sort of mid-budget family, you know, slice of life moment movie that you so rarely see anymore. This would be a TV show for sure. Yes, it would. Yeah.

Not even sure what network or what platform would do it, but this would definitely get turned into a TV show. Yeah, I was going to say free form even, but yeah, Apple, Apple makes a lot of sense. I can see this as an Apple series where they just tried to like blow it out where, you know, Lillian has a whole plot where there's a flashback episode about her site, whatever the fuck. I'm particularly mad about this with Apple TV now because I had to watch Olive's Surface for an interview that I did on GQ. And what a dumb, boring show that should have been a movie. Which one is Surface?

Surfaces is with Gugumatharrah and Oliver Jackson Cohen, the Invisible Man. And she's had a coma and now she has amnesia. And can she believe anything anyone is telling her? Obviously not. Or it wouldn't be a show. Like, it's so, it's boring. She was in an HBO show earlier this year with David a Yellow-O, where it's like she moves into this house, this very sort of like modernist architecture house, and he's the architect, and he previously lived in it with his previous wife who died. And it should be intriguing, but it was, it played out in such this like, again, leisurely fashion.

Like, this would have been a really cool, tight little horror movie. Yeah. And at series length, I'm like, you don't have enough to sustain this. You're, you know, it's, I don't know, I felt bad. Not a great year for Gugumabatha Rashi deserves better. Yeah, sidebar about Apple. This is an endemic problem that I'm noticing they're having. Like, Lute could have been an interesting idea, the Maya Rudolph show.

If they, if they're, someone had had the conviction to like be harder on her character, but because it is a show and not a movie, they have to be like, everyone's nice, you know. Right. You have to want to come back and watch this again and again and again, so it can't be as dark or, you know, nasty. This was my problem, honestly, with Roseburn and physical, a show that I think is very good and I really respected what it was going for. But on a practical level, with 8 billion television shows, I'm genuinely not going to choose to go watch the movie that makes me feel like shit. It's good that it makes me feel like shit. Like, that's what it's going for.

But it's so nasty and dark. And I was just like, guys, I got, like, I got options here. And with a movie, I appreciate that because I'm in a room for two hours. I experience it. And then I walk away, and it's great. And at TV series length, it's just harder. My thing with Apple, especially with, like, a recognizable name, like Google Mavatharra, you could have said that that show was about anything, and I would just have to believe you,

much like that show is about amnesia. I'm just like, they just have these shows that are just, there that nobody really talks about and conceivably they're not great because of that. Yeah. Yeah. I also, I interviewed Purna Janganathan last week for about never, have I ever. And when I was looking at her, she's wonderful. And when I was looking at her, IMDB, I was like, God, remember defending Jacob? That was a good. I do. I do. I interviewed Chris Evans and Michelle Dockery for it with Vanity Fair. Yes. Anyway, sorry, I've gotten off track so fast. Well, so I'll bring it back then. Pamela Gray, who is the screenwriter for this, pulled a lot of this from her experience with, not specifically with like a sexy blouse man, but with, you know, growing up in these sort of Jewish vacation communities and the Catskills and whatnot. She wrote this script in 1992. It was called the Blouse Man, which I get why the title was changed, but like I would have died for a movie just to be called the Blouse Man.

It does sound like a horror movie. Yeah. Just change it to the Blouse Blouse Man and you're halfway there. We were saying last week that that sounds like a 30 rock joke thing. That's over. It's like that sounds like an other two joke. It's like Neil Patrick Harris stars in Blumhouse is The Blouse Man. That's perfect.

So 1992, she writes a script called The Blouse Man. it wins the Samuel Goldwyn writing award in 1992. Samuel Goldman, you say. Yeah, grandfather of Tony Goldwyn and also like a, you know, pillar of Hollywood or whatever. The story says that Tony Goldwyn didn't get the script until CAA gave it to him, which like is an interesting little bit of coincidence, which I believe, I can't imagine that like grandson Tony Goldwyn in 92 when he's like hot and young, coming off a ghost or whatever, is like looking into who's winning, you know, prizes named after his grandfather, whatever, but it's an interesting little coincidence. Initially, when I saw that this movie had won or that script had won the Samuel Goldwyn writing award, I had assumed that it was the year that the movie came out.

And I was like, hmm, an interesting little, like, I wonder what gave it a leg up in that competition. But like, the cart came before the horse in that one. So doesn't get made into movie, obviously, for another seven years, and by that point, Tony Goldwyn comes on. I want to, I don't think this was his first movie, because I think that rom-com he directed with Ashley Judd came first. No, that was his second movie. This is his first movie. It was. This was his debut. Oh, okay. All right.

It's a good debut. Like, it is. Just on top of, like, the things that we like about this movie, this is a well-ton movie. I mean, like, it's interested in all of its characters, it, like, doesn't even just sexually objectify, uh, Vigo Mortensen. It kind of, like, gives him, uh, some kind of, not backstory, but, like, he's a full-fleshed person. Like, yeah. And, like, there's visual interest in this movie. One thing that, like, I do have to, like, kind of tangent to us on, I was, like, bracing myself for a Woodstock movie, and I was like, okay, how many CCR needle drops are going to be in this movie?

none it's judicious it's very joanie mitchell heavy with no ccr songs miraculous great brilliant choices i appreciate you yeah that's a great note the music supervision is it's it does not none of it is expected yeah yeah it's it's heaviest on jony mitchell and judy collins and uh richie havens when they actually get to woodstock and whatnot yeah it is definitely is is in intentional about not giving you your cliched woodstock choices, which I think is really great. Yes, but it did make me think of another Leah Schreiber line from Walking and Talking, the Wonderful 1996, Nicole Olive Center movie, which has been on my mind because of watching this again. When they're driving up to, I believe, another house in the Catskills, and he asks the two women in the car, do we have to listen to the vagina music the whole way? Wait, does he do that one?

Oh, no, it's Todd Field. You're right. That's Todd Field. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's another wonderful actor director. Toddfield. But that, yes, that line sticks with me forever. Do we have to listen to this? And wait, but

it's, and it's, I'm pretty sure it's Joan Osborne they're listening to. It's one of the, the album tracks off of Relish, because I absolutely, this is the second episode in three that we're, I'm talking about how much I love Joan Osborne. It was an album track from Relish. I absolutely remember that.

Tony Goldman's directing career, though, feature film-wise is interesting. He's only directed four, he's apparently filming one now called inappropriate behavior. that's listed as in production slash filming on IMDB with Robert De Niro and Bobby Connovali. Interesting. Walk on the Moon is his first one. Follows it up in 2001 with someone like you, which is a romantic comedy with Ashley Judd and Hugh Jackman and Greg Kinnear.

Greg Kinnear, I think, is the boyfriend who she has, and then she's attracted to Hugh Jackman, who is... He don't say. Yeah. And it's one of those, like, he's got, like, show. ideas about men and women and she is a oh she's like an anthropologist like a it's got one of those weird like careers where she's um she's an anthropologist but about like men and women and whatever and her character's name is genuinely Jane Goodall which is very odd um not a bad romantic comedy but like it's just weird and then his

next movie he directs is 2006, The Last Kiss, with Zach Braff, which is terrible. Yeah, just into Barrett Cinema. Just into Barrett Cinema, exactly. That was his sort of, that was Zach Braff's follow-up to Garden State, which a lot of people, I think, sort of gave him autorship over that movie, and maybe to Tony Goldman's credit, nobody remembers that he directed that one, which is good. And then his most recent movie that he directed, we've covered on this podcast, a conviction with Hillary Swank. Not as good of a movie as this movie.

Conviction. Also written by Pamela Gray, I will say. Pamela Gray is apparently queen of movies that were another title up until very late in the game, because conviction was Betty Ann Waters until very late. The Blouse Man, we've talked about being a better title maybe for this. And then she also in 1999 wrote the script for me. Music of the Heart, the Meryl Street movie, which was titled 50 Violins up until pretty late in that game.

A fave of mine. Yeah. Meryl gets the Oscar nomination in 99. So, like, that's, it's a good year for Pamela Gray. That's a suspiciously, not suspiciously, but like remarkably well-cast movie. Like, that cast goes deep, where all of a sudden her kids are played by, it's Kieran and Michael Angerano when he's little. Yes, yes.

Yeah, yeah. And then Angela Bassett's, her friend. that, and Cloris Leachman is her mother, I want to say. I do have an issue with this title for this movie. I do have to say. A walk on the moon? Because they're having sex for the first time while the moonwalk is happening. So titling at this makes you think of her, of that the idea is that sex is being referred

to as a walk on the moon. It's her walk on the moon. You want it to be a fuck on the moon? Is that a, is that? No, I don't. don't want to call it any i don't want to call that a walk on the moon i will say uh tony goldwin walks right up to the line of fucking editing that scene to have the one small step for man one giant leave for mankind seen happen as she's experiencing an orgasm and it doesn't quite do it that

on the nose but like it's real close the movie was like this is maybe not well judged but like everything around it was so wonderful i was happy that it moved on from them and then the they fuck under a waterfall? That's the more fun one. That's during that montage where Vigo Mortensen's butt is a featured performer I feel like, yeah. Yeah, you see her boob too. That one is

definitely hot, but at the same time, if you think about it for a second, it's like, that looks like it hurts. Because they're standing up and he has her like right against this rock face. Rock. Yeah. Well, and also like, I imagine like the rocks underneath a waterfall there are

pretty slippery, like keeping your balance there she's kind of like up on like one leg at one point or whatever and it's just like you're really asking for like a world to hurt right there this was before the invention of aqua socks so really taking their lives in their hands everyone's favorite they really were a revolution aqua socks maybe that's a new product line she suggests that he start carrying sunglasses jewelry aqua socks right right exactly love that that she suggests you shouldn't maybe sell some other stuff that women might actually buy, and that he does, and then it sells. Like, I love that.

Yeah. She's teaching him how to listen to women. I love it. Yeah. Well, because that very first scene where we see him, where Tova Felcha and the other woman are kind of haggling. Yes, Selma, haggling over that blouse. And he essentially charms his way out of a sticky situation where he flatters Selma and gets her to take

another blouse and he gives it to her for free. and Tova Felchia is like on to him and she's like, I'll pay for it, thanks, but it's not worth more than $5. I won't take it for free, but I also will not pay what you're charging. Yep, yep, exactly. She's tremendous in this. But that's sort of, again, he's very confident in his ability to sort of like, he knows how charming he is. He knows what he can like get away with in this. Yeah, and I think they don't really like, they don't lean on it too much that this is like some of this is just.

salesmanship like he knows whoever he bought this route from was like just give them tons of compliments and they'll buy a lot of shit and you know they he should because that works yeah yeah even watching yes and be hot that's also part of it but it's like these are all bored women it's like Tuesday they are not going to see their husbands again for several days probably because they're all back in the city working they are you know they're horny and hot like just give them what they're asking for man it's going to work and it does yeah this is was maybe a little bit one thing that I had about the

the affair is that it's like kind of a scandal for everybody and everybody knows and it's like given these circumstances she can't be the first woman in this group to go fuck around like but but I think that

there's a class thing with him too because he's the blouse man so he seems like a vagabond he's not a normal guy you know like he's on the fringes of society. And also he's the new blouse man this summer. None of them know him. So he definitely hasn't probably fucked any of other ones that we know of. And in this particular summer where they passed the hippies on their road to there, the other group of hippies are invading their lake at one point with their nakedness and whatnot. And so you imagine that the community

is probably on edge with social change and these are not our kinds of people and we're a little bit afraid of them. And he, with his long hair and his, you know, the free-thinking ways and whatnot. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. So I imagine this was this classic Mona Simpson material where she sees Joe Namath on TV and she's never the same. Yeah. Totally. He's an interesting character, though, because he's not particularly dimensional. He is very much. he represents something more than he kind of is a character. He's more than that, but he's more, he is almost entirely what she needs him to be in that moment.

Yes. For her to sort of break away. I'm like, that's fine. I don't mind that, actually. I mean, to the point where he, like, serves the function of preventing her son from being Thomas Jade, like, you know, where it's like, He ultimately becomes the facilitator in that action of, like, bringing the married couple back together again. Listen, I will say for that kid, throwing rocks at the wasp hive or whatever, like, fuck around and find out is not an inappropriate.

That's a lesson we almost learn is that we do not throw rocks at waspives. It's almost like little boys are stupid or something. It's almost like that. I love that, like, it ultimately put them all together in, like, it was a huge, like, contrivance of the plot. But, like, I do, I did really like that it brought them all together and, like, forced resolution in a way that was kind of unexpected. Yeah. Yeah. I, that's just, like, the type of thing that I vibe for.

And Vigo knew that, you know, the right way. to take out stingers and then you put meat tenderizer on it and whatnot. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I agree with Chris about that scene. I do like everyone, like, being together and being an adult. They're not like just acting in a hysterical way because it's a movie. Like they're all, it's awkward in a believable way. Right. But Marty also knows like, well, he just saved my kids. I can't punch him out.

Right. The only thing about that was that I was surprised that Lillian doesn't know what to do with the wasp sting. Yes. Yes. It seems like folk knowledge she would have. And that's sort of, yeah, that's her vibe is, is, is that kind of folk knowledge. I was surprised nobody knew about this giant wasp nest and kept that child away from it.

That's true. Where was Julie Kavanaugh's all seeing eye? Hello, everyone. There is a wasp on cabin three. Stay away from cabin three. That's a terrible thing. Stop talking about Alison Cantorwitz's first period. Look out for that wafness.

Yeah. That's actually. not how it would have happened. It would have been like, hey, you, little boy, I see you at the wasp nest. Everybody knows a little boy by the wasp nest. Get this bad child away. Yeah, that's what it was. But that part is also believable of like how parenting was at that time.

Obviously, I was not, I shouldn't say obviously. I'm five years younger, but I was not alive in 1969. But there was definitely like the way people parented when we were kids was like, if a bunch of adults are around, someone's going to have an eye on your kid and he didn't really have to pay attention to like whether that was true. Right. Mrs. Lefkowitz is going to tell you what for if you're doing something wrong. That's right.

And sometimes kids fell through the cracks and fucked around and found out. Yeah. But bringing it back to Vigo for a second, because I want to talk about his career up to this point because he's in a just about to break out spot because Lord of the Rings happens two years after this. But he's one of those actors where it's like. like, oh, he's kind of been around way, way longer. He's like, you know, like a tooth goes deeper than you think it does.

Like, that's sort of Vigo's career where, like, his first film role was witness in 1985. Right. He, he's, we saw him in, we did an episode on Carlito's Way and all of a sudden it's just like, oh, there's Vigo, like, showing up as a, as a rat in that one, I believe. He's in Young Guns 2. He's in, I said, Carlito's Way. He's in Crimson Tide. He's in two remakes in 1998. Yeah, wait, oh yeah, I don't know if I would say bad.

I like a perfect murder a lot, I will say. Oh, I like Epic Murder. I like Psycho, too, but. Yeah, Psycho is interesting at the very least, speaking of Van Hage. But his big breakout was the year before that really. I think it was meant to be the portrait of a lady, but that movie did so poorly. But G.I. Jane was the big one. member where that was such, the media was all over that one, Demi Moore shaved her head, it was

the, it was just a very flashing movie, and he had the, you're not going to believe this performance by this guy who, you know, where this guy come from, kind of a thing. He was sort of antagonist to her, as I recall, and then he comes around on her a little bit. It's been a while since I've seen G. I remember him being like a big part of anything that wasn't laser focused on to me more in that movie was focused on him. And then, right, like Chris said, it was a perfect murder and psycho in 1998. And then it was this. So he was kind of still on the way up. And then 28 days, God, he's the right, he's the love interest for Sandra Bullock in 28 days in 2000. And that was it before Lord of the Rings from the Santa Cruz show.

Or am I just conflating stuff that's happening in 28 days? All I know about 28 days is Santa Cruz. It's been a while since I've been 1828 days. I thought he was a, I thought he was a baseball player or something. Right, right. He's a baseball player because he is like, he's the famous person at rehab. Yeah. Yeah. They stole that from Melrose plays.

David James Elliott was an NFL player when Allison Rehab was in. Allison Barlow from rehab with him. That's right. That is a film with Queda cast. Also written by Susanna Grant, who wrote, Aaron Brockovich. But Vigo's in that. Dominic West is her like,

good time guy who like helps her tumble down the road to alcoholism. Elizabeth Perkins is her sister. One tiny step away from his Mona Lisa smile role. Yeah, basically, yes. Alan Tudik doing a voice. Yep. What do we think Alan Tudek's actual voice sounds like? Like just in conversation as a person.

I remember there was one, what was the sketch? Oh, no, it was the Saturday Night Live cold open where Steve Martin does the I'm going to make an effort tonight musical number with like the early 90s cast. And Phil Hartman comes out and he just goes, I hide behind these wigs and this makeup, but tonight I'm going to let myself shine through. Yes, they're going to see the real Bill Hartman tonight. I wouldn't do that, Phil. Okay.

That's sort of how it reminded me. Every time you talk about people who are like total chameleons, like Phil Hartman always seemed like he was putting on something as he was, you know, it, so that's the, he's the Alan Tudic of that era, I guess. 28 days used to be on television every hour. Like, it used to be on television all that time. That's a TBSER for sure. Absolutely. But yeah, I think Vigo's very good in this. movie.

And, like, just, like, again, a lot of these early roles, G.I. Jane, even, a perfect murder for sure. In Psycho, he's even just kind of like the hunk of meat. And he's just, like, just playing these, like, very consistently cast as the hunk kind of roles. And tough to blame people. Yeah. He, you know, he has this sort of G.I.J.N. mode where he's, like, agro, Vigo.

Also, Eastern Promises, obviously. Yeah. But he's also good in this kind of gentle mode. I mean, a perfect murder is similar to this. He's pretty adaptable in that way where he's, he can be in a lot of different, he can be very believable in a lot of different kinds of modes, which, which is nice as an actor. He's good with stillness, which is what most of this role is. Yes.

Yeah. Well, like, it's just, you so see the appeal that he would have for her, where, I think if he was any more headstrong about things, he'd chase her away. And he needs to be just this calibrated. And it doesn't feel calculated on his part, but on the character's part. No, it's innate in him. It's like with salesmanship, where he just knows what he's doing. He knows how to seduce a woman.

Yeah. Some people do. Diane Lane's at an interesting part in her career at this moment, too, because she, had that sort of 1980s she was maybe going to be like one of the next big things where she's in the outsiders

and rumblefish and all those kind of movies she's in the cotton club I've never seen the cotton club Chris Tar have you seen that movie? No I haven't and Coppola did a recut of it that's supposed to be really great but I haven't seen but she's like the ingenue in that one

right I believe she's the love interest I think um And then by this point in the 90s, the roles just kind of like mellow out. And she's in that movie, Indian Summer, with that like ensemble cast movie. And it's her and Bill Paxton and Elizabeth Perkins is in that one as well. Another camp movie. Yes, another camp movie. That one also used to be on TV a lot.

I remember watching that a lot. She's in that movie Jack, the Robin Williams movie, also directed by Francis Ford Coppola. God, she was in a ton of Coppola movies. I'm just sort of realizing that now. And then, so by this point in a walk on the moon, it's not quite where has Diane Lane been, but like she's a long ways away from being sort of a marquee name at this point. And Unfaithful comes three years after this, where she gets like her one big Oscar moment. This movie had shades of that a little bit.

Yeah, it's unfaithful before unfaithful, for sure. Yeah, they're two very different movies, but, like, the performances are somewhat similar. Like, unfaithful is this kind of dialed up to 11 because, like, the sex is more, like, body, for lack of a better word. But also, it's, like, that's, like, thriller melodrama, whereas this is, like, character drama melodrama, you know. But, like, I was really struck by, like, well, this is probably how she got cast and unfaithful, because it's a very similar material. Unfaithful is very much the, what if Adrian Line made a movie about this subject, right? Where it's like, in a walk on the moon, it's all very, like, delicate and, you know, responsibly handled whatever. And Adrian Lines, like, what if it was just real, real trashy?

What if there was a murder by Snow Globe? By Snow Globe, yes. Yeah, exactly. It did really make me think because, like, my, what I think is the scene that's so incredibly impressive in Unfaithful is the subway scene where she's, like, recalling the affair. That's the scene I thought of while watching this movie. She goes through this whole journey that's reliving it. Just on her face, and it's insane. It's incredible.

She's amazing. But this movie still also, like, some of her best. work is in these reaction shots, whether she's, you know, responding to Blouse Man or responding to her daughter. The scene between her and her daughter in the bathroom is just incredible. Yeah. But yeah, like, Diane Lane does some of her best work in reaction shots, I think, or, you know, non-dialogue coverage in a way that, like, it kind of explains why she hadn't really had a moment where it's like it's her movie before this movie. Yeah.

But like it's what makes her so good. Yeah. She's also really good in the scenes, which are, you know, there are less of them with her and Leah of Schreiber because they both have to, again, unlike unfaithful, they have to sell the idea that like, this is a good marriage. Like nothing was wrong before they got to this camp. Right. It's just that these are people who have known each other, literally since they were

teenagers and then they just sort of circumstances kind of push them into adulthood together before either of them really knew or could comprehend what was going on and now they're here and like they're comfortable and friendly and nice when we see them in bed and she's like hey could we do something different this time he's like like what and you sort of think all she's thinking at this point is like what if I was on top right exactly yeah but um and she goes like well I don't know I don't even know what to say like right right yeah but it's sweet like you have to buy that they that they it's that it's right that they come back together at the end he's really good he is really good i like him a lot yeah they could have really easily cast you know he's supposed to be like a mensch you know like he's supposed to be a little bit more boring than we maybe will think shirtlessly of schreiber is ever going to be but um they could have also cast an actor who is less hot than him and And it just, like, it would be less interesting, less complicated, but, like, not to, you know, it is more interesting because Leo Schreiber is so hot in this movie.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, also, he walks that line between being, like, he's just a square in a lot of ways without being, like, a caricature. But, like, all of those moments where, and it's a few of them, actually, where he starts to, like, dance. to, like, hesitantly dance to the new hippie music or whatever, is so endearingly awkward, and I just, I'm, it's so charming. Well, his idea of doing something different in bed is to get their son's cowboy outfit. Yeah, and do, like, a John Wayne impersonation for, like, half a second. He is, that's the thing, is he's trying, and it's in his own little way.

Yeah, yeah, I really like him. What did we think of the Anna Pac-Win portions of the movie? I like that. I get why they were there because, you know, part of Pearl's journey is like, I need to feel that I am still a vital woman who at this point is, like, probably in her 30s still. Well, if the daughter's 14, she's, yeah, like, she's got to be like 31 at this point because she had it when she was 17, I think. Right. Yeah. Oh, God, her early 30s.

So she, you know, this is a real thing that a lot of. mothers go through when their daughters, like, you know, approach womanhood where it's like, oh, God, I'm all dried up. I'm a crone. As a Della would call it, it was her set in return. Yes. So this is, you know, it's part of it. It's part of Pearl's what pushes her to more toward the blouse man after.

Because I think the period happens after she's like, okay, I got to stop. Yeah. And then the period happens. She's like, oh, but do I? You know, Anna Pack when I thought it. is believably brady. She's, but not too much. Like, you know, she's just enough.

She's, again, on the right, on the, on the, on the believable side of this performance. Yeah. Where she's sort of strident about like, I'm not going to sleep in a room with toy guns. Like, all right, 14. Like, game break. What does she say about, I wrote it down too about, I don't believe in, don't believe in July 4th. It's patriotic puke. I was like, you know, honestly, like, she's making points.

Welcome to 2022. Yeah, seriously. progressive queen. I don't think that there's anything up until the point in when she has conflict with her mother and when she finds out about this affair her mother is having. I don't think there's anything up to that point that we haven't necessarily not seen in any other movie about a character like her and what she's going through, but it's done so well that, like, I don't care that it's not doing anything different.

And, like, because it's done so well, it supports the conflict that she has with her mother and how, like, it reflects, like, her mother's journey in this movie that, like, I just, I found that, like, really impressive and enjoyable. Yeah. And you can also see, like, that because of the, because of Pearl's own personal story, that she's keeping a special eye on Allison and, like, trying to make sure that she doesn't, I won't say make the same mistakes, but make the same mistakes. but make the same choices that led Pearl to where she is now, age 31, thinking, like, I spent the last decade with nothing to show for it. And I'll also say that Allison's love interest is believably awkward, too, like his little scrubby mustache, like chin hairs. He's not, like, movie cute, crush boy from a Disney show. He's like, he's weird. I was like, that peach buzz got that kid cast in this movie.

A hundred percent. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I thought she was good. This is just before X-Men for her. So, like, that's when her career sort of gets jumped up to the next level. Yeah, again, I think that's right. Believably, Braddy, without being, like, so much so that you're just like, I hate any time she's on my TV screen.

I think she and Lane have a really good scene where they're sort of, like, letting, putting all the cards out on the table with each other. I think that's quite good And again, I love that scene with her and Tova Felcia in the period I thought that was so funny Also, the friend of hers That's the daughter from Mrs. Doubtfire, right? Correct.

Okay, okay. I thought I had clocked that, yeah. That was a funny scene at the beginning where she just pulls her hair because she had heard the other girls making fun of her and was she wearing a wig. What else about this movie?

know, it's just like it's really, it's really well done. It feels like it's a pretty rewatchable movie too. I imagine if this like shows up on TV, you can just sort of like settle into it. We've had such stinkers lately that we've been talking about that. It was just nice to watch this like really well done, thoughtful movie that's like about shit that I care about. Yeah. And I'm, I hope people were not put off by like, ugh, I can't watch another Woodstock movie because, yes, there is a scene at Woodstock and Tony Golden writes himself in with little cameos, the announcer on stage talking about breakfast and bed for $300,000. Oh, is that him? Oh, okay. That's him, uncredited. But it truly is just like one scene.

So if you're put off by like Woodstock, you know, hagiographies, this is not that. Well, and again, it also feels like it's filmed not in the same way that a lot of Woodstock stuff is filmed. You never see the stage. You don't see the sort of traditional like flower children twirling sort of beatificly or whatever it feels somewhat chaotic it seems it feels claustrophobic in a way that I've always thought

like it must have been with all of those people in that heat and the whatever and I was just like I mean music festivals have never appealed to me for a variety of reasons and that being one of them my siblings all went to Bonneru at various points and I'm like

I love that for you absolutely not So, yeah, I thought it was, it was not, it did not feel like, oh, here's another cliche Woodstock scene. Yes, I agree. It's relatively short, too. Like, I mean, we've also seen the movie where it's like, here is Woodstock going on in the background of this movie. And it doesn't feel like, I don't know, it's, it's all done really delicately and it's not ever any of the annoying things that you might expect it to become. and Woodstock is one of them. They do do the bit where it's like

everybody's painting each other's face and that is what was very unappealing to be about being in a concert setting. Like, don't put shit on my face. I don't like it. I guess in terms of the film's reception, obviously it doesn't get Oscar nominations. How close it came to anything is probably

a matter for a little bit of a debate. Diane Lane did get an independent Spirit Award nomination because it feels like it releases in the spring. The reviews are okay. It's like the, you know, Rotten Tomatoes is imprecise now. Rotten Tomatoes trying to talk about movies that before Rotten Tomatoes existed is even more imprecise. But like, the 72 probably reflects that sort of like, it's okay, but like Roger Ebert didn't really care for it very much and it didn't make a very big splash. And I think

by the end of the year, there were a couple organizations that were like, you know what was a pretty good movie was a walk on the moon. Lane gets the independent Spirit Award nomination for Best Actress, loses to Hillary Swank, which was at that point, it felt like the Independent Spirit Awards

were like, we're going to give our award to Hillary Swank. She's not going to win the Oscar, but it'll be a nice consolation prize. And then But, yeah, and then she ends up winning the Oscar. Also nominated were Janet McTeer for Tumbleweeds, a movie I still need to watch. I know, I know. You've never seen Tumbleweeds?

It's been hard to, like, get a hold of. I watched it during the pandemic at some point, and I expected to like it more, but you can, I mean, I couldn't nominate Janet McTeer, but, like, you can understand why she would have been, and, like, Tumbleweeds had, like, festival pushes, this is a Sundance movie, but was released in the spring, unlike Tumbleweeds, if I'm remembering correctly. But, like, this is the type of movie that, like, could have gotten more attention, especially for Diane Lane, if it had been released in the fall. Yeah, imagine two mother-daughter movies being released to theaters in the same year. Right. Couldn't be 2022.

Well, and Anywhere But Here was also that year, because Anywhere But Here and Tumbleweeds were basically. like there were articles about how similar that they were. And I think the tumbleweeds director sort of like was throwing some snark at anywhere but here for being like the Hollywood glitzy version of it. Which it is. The other nominee, well there was also Susan

trailer for a movie called Valerie Flake that I've never heard of before. But Reese Witherspoon nominated for election which was that movie won the Independent Spirit Award for Best Film that year. That felt like a statement too. Because election it's a teen movie. I

It was MTV films, right? Yeah. And it felt like a movie that could very easily have been brushed aside as, like, a teen thing or whatever. But Independent Spirit Awards and a couple of the other sort of like precursor movie awards, elevating it. And ultimately, it gets the screenplay nomination, right, for the Oscars? Right, because we can't do it for our podcast. So that's pretty interesting. And it shows up, a Walk on the Moon shows up on the National Border of Review under special recognition for excellence in filmmaking, which I always talk about as sounding like the C. Montgomery Burns Awards for Achievement in the Field of Excellence.

It feels very faky fake. It is about selling tables at their event. More power to them. It's an interesting list, though. There are a couple movies here that I had never heard of. Man of the Century, which I looked up and looks like this sort of like 1920s retro pastiche thing that seemed kind of unbearable just from the subject of it, but who knows? And then a movie called This Is My Father that Aiden Quinn was in. But otherwise, a map of the world, which is a good movie with Sigourney Weaver and Julian Moore, election, just talked about Go, which I fucking love.

Joe's going to grandstand about go. Listen, I don't even need to. Have you done it on this podcast yet? No, and we could because Sarah Polly was also... Oh, it's such a good Christmas movie! It is a Christmas movie. That's not a bad idea. That's a great idea.

Limbo, which I've never seen. John Sales. John Sales, yes. Lockstock and Two Smoking Burles, which was the Guy Ritchie movie that broke through. Sturr of Echoes is an odd choice here. stir of echoes kind of got caught up in the like six cents summer a little of it i did too i definitely did too um in the theater iliana douglas like does a weird like seance spell i think is what unlocks that the plot of that movie and like opens the door for something to happen i feel

like if iliana douglas shows up yeah exactly exactly hey listen if you invited iliana douglas over to your house anything else that happens is on you as far as i'm concerned And then Twin Falls, Idaho, which I've also never seen, but I remember being like a little bit of a quirky indie kind of a deal. I saw that. It's an interesting list. That, what won the NBR that year? Oh, American Beauty, of course. NBR, as always, credibility, maybe, but like they make odd choices sometimes, and I do appreciate that.

So good for them. But this recognition probably got, you know, also. helped Diane Lane get cast in an Adrian Lynn movie several years later. Yeah, I think that's true. I think this is the thing, this is why when we talk about these movies that didn't get Oscar nominations, and it's like, yeah, but like there are levels where something, the sort of, that rush of year-end awards, which can seem very much like a lot of noise signifying nothing and whatnot, but especially in this era, in the 90s, especially, where it was harder to get

movies sort of on people's radar, these things all did really help, I thought. I mean, for the scale of this movie, too, and especially when it was released in the spring, this movie made almost $5 million at the time, which is like kind of nothing to sniff at. And, I mean, if audiences liked it, I do think a huge part of that has to do with Diane Lane, too. Yeah, yeah. It was a Miramax movie. Miramax, of course, as with any year in the 90s, especially in the late 90s, had like a full slate of movies they were going to push for Oscars Music of the Heart being one of them.

They kind of, I remember at the time, the perception was that they kind of stole a nomination for Merrill there, that basically, I can't remember who was supposed to take that slot. But I remember a lot of people being like, oh, another Merrill. Yeah, it's like, little did they know how much more Merrill was still to come. Talented Mr. Ripley was the big Miramax movie that they were going to push that year. And we've talked about this, Chris, a ton, about like all the little... Split the paramount, just like the hours. That perfect storm of fatigue for that movie, where it was Gwyneth Fatigue and Matt Damon fatigue and Anthony McGillow fatigue.

And kind of, well, not necessarily, I would say Miramax fatigue, but they did get a nomination for the Cider House rule, so they were still doing pretty okay. But Talented Mr. Ripley is the highlight. think of that lineup and we can look at that sort of in retrospect masterpiece best movie of 1999 it really holds up like a motherfucker yeah yeah it really does release that movie today and Twitter is very annoying yeah that's true yeah that's very true god and just like from a lot of different angles too i feel like you'd be i don't need a think piece about who's queer baiting who and like, please.

I really, really don't. No. And yet, it is an incredible movie. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Like, on question. Well, people can be annoying about things that are great. That's what dinner's.

That is the lesson of the 21st century is people can be annoying about things that are great. Like, that's the cultural conversation that we've been having for the Twitter era. That's right. Yeah. All right. Any other odds and ends about this movie? I sort of, I will refer to. my notes.

I don't know. This is just one of those movies where like it's such a like simple kind of basic thing, but it's a movie that I do actually hope our listeners go back and watch because I thought it was fucking wonderful. It's on stars right now if you're a stars subscriber so you can watch it on your, on your, uh, on your free, um, sign up if you try to get a 30 day trial to watch becoming Elizabeth or whatever the hell that I will always say, I have the stars add-on for Amazon Prime. And there are. always good movies on it. Like, it has a really strong selection of movies. It's true. What struck me this time, one of the many things was how many people in this movie have jobs

that don't exist anymore, like not just the blast man or the PA lady at the holiday camp that is not a thing. But Marty is a TV repair man. Like, imagine getting your TV repaired. Like, it just doesn't happen. Yeah. Your TV breaks, you throw into the garbage and you buy a new one. Pretty much. That felt like, watching that, I was like, oh, this feels like maybe like a reverse-engineered screenwriter thing where it was like, we need to get Marty out of the house. And also, the moon landing is happening around this time. So, like, what if the moon landing happening meant that a lot of people were,

wanted to make sure their TVs were working? And so it was just like, oh, that's interesting. So this wasn't in competition at Sundance, but. But we should talk a little bit about the 99 Sundance, especially because we're talking about a Miramax movie. This is the year of Happy Texas. I was going to say, was this Happy Texas? This was the Happy Texas year where they pay, it's funny now because it's cute now, yeah. It's cute now because it was the highest paid Sundance purchase, which I think at the time was somewhere between 5 and 10 million and they, like, it.

it bombed. I don't think they even put much of a push behind it, but they had this huge purchase of Happy Texas that, like, was always, has since been seen like cynically. And now I think it's completely forgotten after like, you know, Apple plays

$25 million for CODA. Right. Which is the highest purchase of Sundance still. Yeah. Well, back in that era, that's sort of late 90s era especially.

And again, here's where I once again recommend the book Down in Dirty Pictures, which covers that era of Sundance and Miramax and whatnot. But essentially, you would just get into these bidding wars at Sundance, which turned out, like, would almost always be

far more about the participants in the bidding war than about the film itself. And it's just about, like, you know, dick measuring and making sure that nobody else gets the thing that you say you want and you want to show dominance and make sure that your studio doesn't look less powerful or whatever.

And Happy Texas is one of the great examples of that because it's just like genuinely what are you fighting over? Right. And like it's excuse me. It's one of those things where I imagine as soon as Miramax won that. And they're just like, well now what do we do with this?

Because you're right, Chris. It's not like it got this like... It didn't get amazing reviews. It was like a dumb comedy where Steve Zons pretending to be gay or something. Right. Him and Jeremy Northam, is it? That's the two. I've never seen the movie.

It's like they're pageant coaches. Neither of I. Actually, that's interesting. Maybe I should go and watch Happy Texas. Should you? It's probably a movie that's conceivably... With your one life you have to live, you're going to watch Happy Texas. I'm saying, watch a walk on the moon again before you watch Happy Texas.

Yes, it is Jeremy Northam. Yeah, okay. They're mistaken for a gay couple, pretending to be pageant coaches. But they're con men, et cetera. Tumbleweeds was also in competition. A Walk on the Moon wasn't in competition, so it probably was just a premiere at Sundance, but Tumbleweeds was in competition,

as was a movie we've talked about on this podcast before, not in an episode, but I feel like we talked about this during our EW miniseries maybe, but the movie Trick, I kind of we need to find somewhere to fuck cinema. Yes, yes. I liked that movie. Yeah, Trix a nice movie.

Also, Tori Spelling Cinema, which, like, you don't have, you don't get a ton of Tori Spelling cinema. Yeah. That was one of those. She had a couple roles in the 90s, because I feel like the story about, and I don't have to tell you this, Tara, obviously, but like, the story of Tori Spelling in the early 90s was, you know, nepotism hire. She's a terrible actress. You know, that's the only reason he has that job. And so I think there was a, there was a motivation on people's part towards the end of the 90s when she started showing up in movies to being like, maybe she's, secretly pretty good. Maybe that's the angle. And she's in

She's not, but she was also in House of Yes. I was just about to say she's also in House of Yes, and she's not very good. At least in Trick, there's a campiness to it that you can be like, well, I can at least appreciate this on a campy level. She's so out of her depth in the House of Yes, though. It's like. Yes. This is a, this is a trajectory that a lot of 902 and O stars went on where they were like, no, respect me, because that show was such a huge cultural Girl Juggernaut. So, like, that's where you get Jason Priestley and Love and Death on Long Island and Luke Perry and his various things. And then, you know, they all set along to doing Hallmark movies. Yeah, Lou Perry on Oz. Luke Perry did the Rocky Horror show. He was Riff on, like, stage in London, I think, or possibly New York. But, but yeah, you know, they all, they all level out to doing their Hallmark and Gack movies. And that's fine. I can't find their little. Right. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Wait, what else from that Sundance, Chris, anything?

Or was that the last? That's, I mean, this is not actually a huge Sundance. I can't figure, I can't find a list of what the, like, premieres were. There's also the Adventures of Sebastian Cole, the Adrian Grenier movie, where Clark Gregg plays his transparent. Judy Berlin, which is famous for being the final Madeline Khan movie. Right. Right. May she rest.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Walk on the Moon, though. Very, very glad I finally saw it. And it feels like a movie that should be on TV a lot more, as I said. And I don't know. I'm sort of, again, kind of oddly interested in what this next Tony Goldman movie is going to be with De Niro and Cannavali. It's tough to even talk about him. Like, I mean, obviously we can't talk about him as an actor because he's not here other than his cameo. It's the closer. But he, Like, he brought more to that role of Fits in Scandal than was on the page, I always thought. I didn't watch that show to the end, but I thought he was great. He understood that that character is a fucking scumbag in a way that the writer sometimes did not. Well, that show, I think I strayed for a little bit, but I definitely came back for the end. Maybe I didn't.

Maybe I watched it all the way through. But there's a point in maybe it's second season. Like, it's not too long into it, where his character, who was the president of the United States murders the chief justice of the Supreme Court in her hospital bed. The Supreme Court played by Everwood's Debra Mooney. Murders her in her hospital bed. And I literally remember being like at the timing, like that is crazy that the show would

go there. And then by the end of the season, I don't think that show had a main character who had not murdered somebody in some way or another. That season, there's three candidates for president because there's an independent running that year. And when you see them on the debate stage, you realize all three of them are murderers. Yeah. We've seen the murder people on the show. Yep, yep. It's really something. Like, by the end, they were, yes, they were all murderers. What a wild show that was. I almost have. I like him. I respect him. I do too. Yes. I mean, I have, again, since, you know,

Ghost. I remember Ghost was 1990. So I was at the latest. I was probably not even a level. by the time I saw that, because I saw that on video, but not too long after it came out. And it was a little scary for me. I especially, God, I got so scared at the part where Swayze gets killed, and then the shadows come after him and whatever. But I also very, very clearly remember that scene where he, in an attempt to seduce to me more, like spills coffee on himself and takes off the shirt. And I was just like, yeah, the fact that that's stuck with me since then, I was like, oh, right. Oh, okay.

That's how that works. What stuck with me about Ghost is Ghosts is of the era, especially of Paramount movies, that was sold at McDonald's, because I always remember the VHS copy of Ghost having the little McDonald's logo on it. I definitely had a couple of VHSs. I can't remember which ones, but I definitely had at least one or two that had the McDonald's logo on it. Ghost made also insane amount of money. I've seen some people scoff and be like, how could Ghost be a best? They understand Whoopi winning, but, like, they could be like, how could Ghost be, like, nominated for screenplay, or did it win screenplay? It won.

It won best screenplay. And, like, be a best picture nominee. And, like, people kind of scoff at it. And it's like, because it made that much money back in the day. It was a huge sensation. It was, like, if you would do a comparison, it's, like, making Marvel money, which is probably because A, whoopee is amazing in it. And Patrick Swayze is so hot. people forget how much of that movie became like again like cultural shorthand like that pottery scene with the unchained melody and whatever like that was first of all parodied eight ways from sunday like everybody did their own little version of that and that was like just a staple of pop culture in fact i'm watching um i love that i get to bring this up on this podcast because i bring it up in all contexts uh claim to fame on abc which is my favorite show of the summer which is this reality show

where a bunch of relatives of famous people are all competing against each other to try and keep the secret of who they are related to the longest and you have to guess who all these other people are related to. Do we in the audience now? The show parcels out the information

bit by bit. The first episode, they tell you who two of them are, and then, like, it reveals a little bit more as it goes along. But the very first episode, they tell you, one of the ones they tell you right away

is Whoopi Goldberg's granddaughter. And the competition give you little clues that you're supposed to use to like decipher who these people are. And her clue in one of the competitions was a like a pottery wheel or something like that. And I remember being like, oh, right. But I was also like these people who like all these people are like in their 20s or whatever. Like none of them are going to remember that little moment of like cultural ephemera. And it's funny because one of them, she hasn't said exactly. We haven't been told exactly who. But like her clues are leaning very. very, very heavily towards James Bond. Like, she's related to one of some James Bond. She's some either Connery or Roger Moore's granddaughter, but she's American, so it's like, I don't know, it's been tough. I haven't figured her out yet.

But she basically said in the last episode, she's like, I don't think anybody's going to guess me because nobody knows, like, all my totems, essentially, are old movie stuff. And, like, nobody remembers that stuff. And she can't guess the guy whose relative is a country music star, because she's like, I don't know. One of them is basically the same as all of them as far as I'm concerned. So I was just like, yeah. Anyway, it's a fantastic show.

I love it. Do we want to move into the IMDB game? Yeah, let's do it. All right. Chris, why don't you tell our listeners what the IMDB game is? So, everyone, much like Diane Lane returning every summer to this little commune. Every week, we end our episodes with the IMDB game. where we challenge each other with an actor or actress

to try to guess the top four titles that IMDB says they are most known for. If any of those titles are television, voice-only performances, or non-acting credits, we'll mention that up front. After two wrong guesses, we'll get the remaining titles release years as a clue, and if that's not enough, it just becomes a free-for-all of hints. Indeed, that's the IMDB game. Tara, as our guest, we're going to give you the choice to, first of all, whether you want to go first,

or whether you want to give a clue first and then also in what direction will this little round robin go? I'm going to, I realized I forgot to have backup so I better go first in case either of you. Okay. I happen to pick the same one as me. Okay.

Who would you like to quiz? I'll give to Chris and you can give to me, Joe. All right. Sounds good. Chris, are you ready? I'm ready. I went through our leading lady, Diane Lane, went to one of her romantic comedies

that followed this and chose her leading man, possibly someone who you already did in your first hundred episodes, but we were all different people then. So hopefully you don't recall with a known for, if you have done him, for John Cusack. I knew you were going to do John Cusack because I was like, what romantic comedies was she in? Who was the lead with her? And unfortunately, Must Love Dogs was a movie I unfortunately did not like very much. It's not good. I saw it in the theater. It's bad. I've never seen it. Yeah. And I do, And I do love dogs And I didn't

You're like, but don't tell me to Right You're not the boss of me Must love dogs to enter this movie Must be this height to write this right Oh, that's not a guess Well, you guys get a free answer That's not one

Gross Point Blank Yes Okay Um Hmm There's so many John Cusack movies. I'm going to say, say anything. Yep. I'm wondering if any of the other 80s ones are there, though, like is better off dead there? Probably not. People don't know that movie.

I mean, I was just talking about it last week, but that was on Listen to Sassy. Okay. We've done Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil. We've done the Paperboy. I don't know if either of those are going to be there. Actually, I'm going to guess the paper boy Nope No, okay Give one strike Hmm It's kind of be

What else was he doing in the 90s? I know that there's something High Fidelity High Fidelity is there I was going to say you're missing a major one Okay Yep So you have one more to guess

Let's see He's in the butler He's been with Lee Daniels multiple times I don't think the butler shows up for anybody though So, I'm just going to say better off Ted. No.

So you get your year, which is 2007 and good luck. This is not a remembered movie. No. Although I did see it in the theater. I think I may have, no, I'm thinking of the, I'm thinking of a different one that is in a similar thing. Oh, seven. Is that like the ice harvest? No, but I did see that in the theaters.

This is free for all of hints, right? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. This is a Stephen King, right? It is. 1492 or not 14. No, not quite.

Wrong movie. It's 1402 or 1408? It's 1408. 1408. This is not a good scary movie. They like marketed the hell out of this movie and it's not good. Yeah. Put a pin in scary movie because Joe, when we hang up, I have two, I have scary movie questions to ask you.

Oh, good. Okay. Cool, cool, cool. Oh. All right. Good job, Chris. You got three. Fantastic. So, Joe, for you, I went into Tony Goldwyn's filmography. We discussed a little bit the motion picture that I have not seen. Someone like you, which I imagine is about Ashley Judd striking several poses in cardigans based off of the posters and production stills I've seen from that movie.

I did mean to mention when we brought it up Like Diane Lane is kind of giving Ashley Judd vibes in this movie Like you could conceivably see Ashley Judd in this movie as well And be just as great Yeah She reads probably even less Jewish than Diane Lane does Which is not saying much

So for you I chose one of her love interests in that movie Mr. Hugh Jackman Okay Huge Ackman how many wolverines are in here is probably going to be a major question. But definitely the greatest showman is going to be in there. Incorrect. No!

That movie made so much money. It was so successful. No hints, but you're crazy for this one. My God. I was like, oh, well, I got to do this one. All right. Well, now that's really thrown me. Okay.

This is not the greatest show. This is so mean. The thing is... The thing is... It's like, at least one X-Men movie's got to be in there. But, like, judging which one is a fool's errand. I'm going to say Logan. Logan is correct.

Okay. All right. Is Le Miz one of them? Because it's his Oscar nomination? Okay. All right. Now it's going to be something weird, probably. But, all right, just to be safe, I'm going to guess X-Men 2. Incorrect.

Damn. Okay. What are my years? Your years are 2000 and 2009. Okay. 2000 is the first X-Men. Correct. Okay. 2009. So X-Men 3 is 2006, and I don't think he's back until, like, 2011 at the earliest. So I don't think it's another Wolverine. O-9. Australia's 08.

What the hell's he doing in 2009, I wonder. I wonder. This is after, Kate and Leopold. Um Shoot It's not prisoners That was 2013 Was that 2013?

That movie's that old? Yeah Wow Yeah Um Oh wait No I was going to say the Woody Allen movie he did

But that was 06 Wait what Woody Allen movie did he do Scoop Not scoop Scoop. I never saw Scoop. Is it, I mean, I'm past the point of this point. Is it drama or comedy? Neither.

Neither. Neither. Is it a musical? No. Did we do another musical? No. What the hell? Not drama, not comedy, not musical.

Horror? No. No, but you're getting closer. You're getting closer. Hello, sir. Can I give hints? Sure, you can give any. There's another connection through this movie to a walk on the moon.

Oh. Oh, I don't know. No, there is. Yeah. There is. Anna Pacquine? No. I mean, no, but yeah.

But you're on the right track. So it's another, it is an X-Men? It's a, it's an X-Men in 2009. Is it Origins Wolverine? It is. Yes. It's all-starring. Liam Shriver. It's the bad guy.

Jesus. Loathed Wolverine. Okay, so he has three Wolverines on there. I forgot about that. I have to do this. This is crazy. That's insane. I mean, I figured you would either get low. I knew you would get, it would be the one that you would get caught up on because it's like

there were multiple standalone Wolverine movies. Yeah. Nobody talks about them. No one likes them. I like the one in Japan. I like the Wolverine. I think that's a good one. Gritty Reboot the Wolverine.

This is the one that leaked online, like the week before it opened, but it was, like, not finished. So, like, people ended up, like, hate watching it because the bad, CJ, unfinished CGI was apparently. Is that the one where Troy Savon plays a young Cyclops or something like that? He's in one of those where he's like, it's like, it's not him. There is a Cyclops in it, but it's not him. Yeah, he shows up in one of the, in one of them as like a little, little baby version of, whatever, whoever. It's a bad movie. X-Men Origins' Wolverine is a bad movie.

Okay. So I'm quizzing Tara. Okay. Yes. So I mentioned a couple times Tony Goldwyn's upcoming movie, inappropriate behavior with Robert De Niro and Bobby Connavalli. We've never done Bobby Connavalli for the IMTV games. So Tara, that's who I am giving to you. Is there any TV?

There is not. Kind of surprisingly so. So no boardwalk empire. Right. No weird Cupid remake. Right. The station agent? Station agent.

Oh, okay. Yes. Great. My mind is blank of all Bobby Kanaveli. This is not on TV. And he works. So that's weird. I truly cannot think of one other Bobby Kavanaughley.

Is there any voice? voice work? I feel like he's done that. No. No, no voice work. Have I heard of these movies? Have I seen? Yes. You've definitely seen it. I imagine you've definitely seen at least one of these. One of them is in a genre. I'll just start with him. Yeah, go ahead. One of them is in a genre you don't like at all. You've like categorically don't like. One of them is starring somebody who I imagine you and Dave have watched several of his movies. Okay. Jason Statham? Yep If you get this one first, I'm going to lose my life. Yeah, this is the hard one. This is the deeply hard one. But yeah, it's a Statham.

This is, his co-star on the poster of this movie is an actress who Joe and I love and love to defend. And just got married in real life. I fully forgot she did this movie. I can't even remember she did this movie. But she's on the poster. But it's not... And just recently got married, as Joe said. Okay.

That doesn't... That's not ringing any bells for me. Jason Statham movies. Got married and has officially changed her last name somewhat, surprisingly. Oh, Jennifer Lopez. Yeah. And Jason Statham. And Bobby Catamolly?

Yeah. Yeah. I can't picture the poster. Okay. The first episode that you did with us starred someone who got a Golden Globe nomination for that movie, and their last name is the name of this movie. Jesus Christ. Parker. There you go.

The motion picture Parker that everyone remembers starring Jennifer Lopez. Okay. All right. The other two. One is directed by a canceled person. one is again part of that genre that you categorically do not like okay so the canceled person is Woody Allen yes but I can't remember what is it like is he in Melinda and Melinda no this is one that actually won an Oscar oh he's in Blue Jasmine correct blue Jasmine okay yep and a

genre I categorically don't like oh it's a superhero movie uh-huh uh uh uh Starring an actress, not in the lead, but like as the like co-lead, an actress who you also categorically do not like, who maybe has been annoying in an airport setting in real life. Oh, he's in the first Ant Man. He's in the first Ant Man. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Good old Annie Hall herself. Evangeline Lilly also kind of canceled. Also, yes.

Yeah, yeah. When they were covering that at Comic-Con, the big Marvel event. that one day and all of the people from I can't remember what context all of these people were on stage together but Evangeline Lilly and Letitia Wright were both on stage and people were just like there's a lot of anti-VAC sentiment on stage

at one point in time so yeah triple mask for that event yeah exactly my advice all right sorry I gave you a hard one that was I was just I the Parker of it all I literally, because it is a poster with Jason Statham and Jennifer Lopez, and I truly have no experience of ever hearing. And I am not a Jason Statham person, so I thought maybe I just, you know, white noise to me or something. Homosexual Orientation, we're like, Jennifer Lopez movie with Jason Statham?

No. Directed by Taylor Hackford, Mr. Helen Mirren himself. I have seen many Jason Statham movies, but that is not among them. All right. Well, Tara, thank you so much for coming off. on this podcast and talking about a walk on the moon with us. I was very glad to have finally seen it. Thank you for finally bowing to my years-long campaign of lobbying you to watch

a walk on the moon. And now you know I was right. Well, now you can go and pick your next movie that you can lobby for because we will be happy to have you back as often as possible. Do you want to tell our listeners about your various podcasts and projects and where they can find you? Sure. You already mentioned all the podcasts.

So you can follow me on. Twitter or Instagram at Tara Ariano, T-A-R-A-A-R-I-A-A-R-I-A-N-O for links and plugs for all the stuff that I do as it comes up. Very good. Chris, how about you? You can find me on Twitter and Letterbox at KrispyFile. That's F-E-I-O. All right, I am also on Twitter and letterboxed at Joe Reed, read-spelled, R-E-I-D.

We would like to thank Kyle Cummings for his fantastic artwork and Dave Gonzalez and Gavin Mavius for their technical guidance. please remember to rate, like, and review us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Google Play, Stitcher, wherever else you get podcasts. A five-star review in particular really helps us out with Apple Podcasts visibility. So remember to sign up for the Majong Tournament and then write something nice about us. That's all for this week, but we hope you'll be back next week for more buzz. Ah!