This Had Oscar Buzz - 210 – 25th Hour

Episode Date: September 5, 2022

We talk about a lot of films dealing with the social and political aftermath of 9/11 but few like this week’s episode: Spike Lee’s 25th Hour. Filmed in New York City in the months after and adapted by David Benioff from his own novel, the film captures that dysphoria while following a drug dealer played … Continue reading "210 – 25th Hour"

Uh-oh, wrong house. No, the right house. I didn't get that! We want to talk to Marilyn Hacks. I'm from Canada. I'm from Canada water. Everything's gotten so strange, Bob. The only people I trust are you and guys I grew up with.

What do we say to them? We'll say nothing. He's going to hell for seven years. What I'm going to do wish and luck. Champagne for my real friend. And real pain for my sham friends. Can't believe you brought my student in here. You haven't done anything wrong yet?

What do you mean yet? She's the only girl I've ever kept fantasizing about it after I slept with it. Is that normal? That's a pretty good kind of normal. We haven't talked about this at all. You know, this is our last night. No, it's not our last night. My last night.

Hello and welcome to the This Had Oscar Buzz podcast, the only podcast waiting for the Bogo sale from the Blouse Man. Every week on This Had Oscar Buzz we'll be talking about a different movie that once upon a time had Lofty Academy Award aspirations, but for some reason or another, it all went wrong. The Oscar hopes died, and we are here to perform the autopsy. I'm your host, Chris Fyle. I'm here, as always.

with this fucking guy, get a load of this fucking, this fucking guy, Joe Reed. This mook. Uh, yeah, a lot of that. A lot of that in, uh, in Spike Lee's New York, which is, uh, you're Irish, though, right? So I believe your slur would be a mick. Yes, the slur for me, yes, if we want to, if we want to bring in ethnic slurs, uh, a mick. Which we do not.

I'm also literally, I'm more French than anything, which my mother will always remind me, because her side of the family is entirely French. So I'm a frog, I guess. You are an ah-ha-ha-ha. Yeah, exactly. Me in the corner, ah-ha-ha. Yeah, that's always looking to boil anthropomorphic crabs in my little, in my kitchen. How do you think that monologue would have gone?

Because this movie, we're going to talk a lot about 9-11. Yeah. Um, we're sometimes secretly a, like, 9-11 movie culture podcast. I mean, it shows up in a lot of movies. What are you going to do? You know what I mean? Um, I mean, like, this kind of is, like, the good 9-11 movie, basically. Yeah.

Um, how do you think that monologue would have gone down if this wasn't basically viewed through the eyes? this movie wasn't, you know, positioned through the eyes of 9-11 because I know that there was some concern over the monologue, like, in development of it, and now it's just like it's quintessential to this movie. It's like one of, I think, among the most memorable Spike Lee sequences. Yeah. So it says something so specific, I think, about post-9-11. despair unique to New York City. Yeah.

Well, of all of the things, there's a lot of things about 25th hour, the movie, that feel serendipitous, which feels like the wrong word to talk about when you talk about when 9-11 is part of the discussion. But just in terms of a lot of this movie

feels coherent and cohesive in a way that it maybe shouldn't because of where the component parts come from. This book was written before 9-11, but the movie becomes a potent 9-11 allegory. The monologue that you're talking about that Edward Norton delivers into the bathroom where he runs down all the different populations of New York City that becomes this sort of dark love letter and also a recrimination for himself was in, originally, the David

Benioff novel, which he adapted into his own screenplay. So, like, this, and it was, as you mentioned, it was the publisher of the book, Initially wanted to cut it out of the book, the early development of the movie, wanted to cut it out of the movie. Spike Lee said at one point in an interview, he said the script that he got, he got the script and then he read the book. And when he saw that monologue in the book, he says to Beniof, where is this in the script? And Beniof said, you know, it got taken out in development. And so Spike wanted to put that in. And it feels like, if you're just watching the movie Cold and don't know any of this, it feels like, oh, that must have been a thing that Spike Lee put in there because it's such. a Spike Lee kind of thing. It recalls the do the right thing kind of explicitly, right? And there's a lot about 24 that sort of feels that way as an act

of adaptation, as an act of Spike Lee and David Benioff sort of like combining in this. Obviously, there's going to be a temptation throughout this discussion, I think, on both of our parts to sort of valorize Spike Lee and demonize David Benioff and be like, all the good stuff

the Spike Lee and all the stuff we maybe don't like as much as David Henry off. I mean, and I want to push against that a little bit. That's actively kind of how I feel about this movie because I feel like on the page it is kind of reprehensible, but like this to me is such a feat of directing

versus writing because like I think all of the you know, viewing it through the lens of 9-11 and you know, making everybody's behavior in this movie not just being kind of the base level behavior, but also being

representative of some other type of psychological thing going on specifically within New York. But like, that's not necessarily true of the script. And like,

this is a script that's all like, that does a lot of, uh, you know, uh, ogling of younger women. And, You don't think it's self-critical of that, though? I think Spike Lee makes it self-critical of that, and I don't think that's present on the page. Because my tendency is to go there, too.

And I think, I don't know, I think it's real easy. I think after Game of Thrones, David Benioff is very much, like, not in favor among the culture. And I do feel like there are parts of the way that this movie is effective comes from the story itself. Maybe not all of it. Maybe not, you know, I think in general, this is a superbly directed film, and I think it achieves its greatness because of that. But I don't want to fully discount the fact that like, I mean, again, that monologue in the bathroom comes from the book, and that is hugely important to the way the story sees itself, I think. I mean, I can hear you there. I definitely think it gets a lot of the impact by what Spy

Spike Lee does with it. And I think that's true of a lot of things in this movie. Just like the character development, the relationship development, like the way that the movie is ultimately structured and shot and edited. But like things like the finale of the movie, not to put the cart before the horse. On the page, I maybe don't go along with that. I maybe think it's a little hokey, and I think the way that Spike Lee pulls it off, it is anything but. So, like, It's beyond the things that make me kind of like brace myself or cringe that I think it's more of a directing feat than a writing feat. The movie is most effective to me in its most operatic moments, which I think is definitely a credit to Spike Lee to be able to have the kind of hoodspot to be able to do that. I also feel like he's probably one of the few directors who would have been able to get away with a lot of stuff like this because of his stature as a filmmaker.

because of the kinds of films that he had made up until this point. I don't think any other filmmakers or I don't think there would be a lot of other filmmakers who would have been able to get away with that bathroom monologue and have the audience know instinctively that the filmmaker is coming at this from a knowing, loving, you know, like all of this, all of this hate speech feels like a love letter. And like how many filmmakers would we have automatically given that grace to as an audience, other than Spike Lee.

Probably not too many, I would say. Fuck the Uptown brothers. They never pass the ball. They don't want to play defense. They take five steps on every layup to the hoop, and then they want to turn around and blame everything on the white man. Slavery ended 137 years ago.

Move the fuck on. Fuck the corrupt cops with their anus-violating plungers and their 41 shots standing behind a blue wall of silence. You betray our trust. I also think he's, you mentioned like the operaticness of it. I think that that's kind of a level

of approach that he has to this material. That's how he views this material and that's what he makes it. Whereas on the page, it's kind of this grimy chamber piece, you know, like, I'm trying to think of, like a Brooklyn's finest type of movie. Whereas

like, you even get the scene of the first scene with Philip Seymour Hoffman and Barry Pepper feels like and you have Terrence Blanchard's like huge... Oh my God, that score. We'll get into it. We can't do it right now.

Yeah. But we will talk about Terence Blanchard's score in this movie. But like you have a scene like that which like feels like something that could have almost been in a much lesser movie for what is on the page like almost completely

excised from the movie. But Spike Lee kind of views it almost in this, like, you know, it feels like Shakespeare to be kind of cheap about it, you know, where it's like, I don't know, Polonius and Laertes, you know, telling us what's actually going on. But, like, that's as integral to the tone. It's as integral to, like, these characters being representative of something more than just who they are. Yeah. Well, and I think, and I don't want to fall into the trap. of sort of placing myself within the psyche of the filmmaker, because I think sometimes that is a road that leads to, you know,

showing your ass a little bit. But I am at, like, this story feels like a story that is a fairly sober tale of responsibility and regret and, you know, sort of last moments and things like that. And in the telling of it, there is this, as I say, operatic sort of you know there's more emotion in this that doesn't feel like it's coming from the story it feels like it's coming from the vibes and the filmmaking

and I can just imagine that if you are making this movie in the immediate aftermath of the 9-11 attacks like this movie was in pre-production before 9-11 most of it I believe was filmed in early 2002 That's at least according to what's on IMDB, so grain of salt. But I imagine the headspace that you are in as a filmmaker in general, but also as a filmmaker who is very much a New Yorker by definition, by constitution, by, you know, he is one of the most, you know, New York filmmakers of them all. He has a clear passion and love for a city.

And so I imagine making a movie like this that doesn't, you know, textually go you know approach the themes of 9-11 but you can feel that like this is he as he's making this movie he's mourning he's celebrating he's confused he's he's anxious there's there's you know a good bit of anxiety in this movie about like you know what will the next several years bring you know what i mean where are we going what's going to happen to us and it makes it into both an incredible film, but also like a real, real fascinating document of that moment. I also, I mean, like, again, not to get into the ending of it, but I ultimately think it comes to a place that is also looking critically at the idea of American optimism and the American

dream and starting over and, you know, building from the ground up in a way that feels like you said very mournful of like something that cannot exist anymore um something that like feels totally futile but we're also kind of uh as creatures of habit um incapable of not uh buying into that type of sad fantasy of what could be yeah well and and i do feel like and again not to jump ahead to the ending, but whatever, we've done that several times already. There is, you're right, I think your reading of it and my reading of it is not all that dissimilar. I want so much to believe in that ending that I sometimes forget that the fantasy of it is sort of stripped bare pretty conclusively by the end, because they don't take that off ramp to the bridge.

but I still watch that ending and I feel like oh I want to be left in the headspace where this could possibly be true even though I know it's probably not just because it's told so emotionally and I don't know I cry two different times in this movie I cry once at the end during that part and I cry at the end of the bathroom mirror monologue when he gets when when Blanchard's score really you know kicks in there and amazing it's amazing it's amazing and it makes me you know as a and i did not live in new york city when this movie was made when i first saw this movie um it's definitely a movie that's taken on more resonance the longer i have now lived here 15 years and um the more i feel a part of the city the more this movie feels like it it hits me more directly. And sometimes I feel fraudulent in that. Sometimes I feel like I haven't earned that right, you know what I mean, to feel what I feel at the end?

What the hell do I know about the tenements in Alphabet City and the, you know, and the row houses and Astoria and whatnot? And yet, I think part of that is I feel it through Spike Lee's experience. Mm-hmm. I mean, I can't think that you're alone and feeling exactly that way. we're also talking about a movie that is way more appreciated now than it was. Yeah. It wasn't panned. It was, I think there was a lot, there was, people didn't know quite how to take it. And so they, because it came out at a part of the year where there were so many other things to pay attention to, they kind of paid attention to other things. It's kind of, it's a two-headed beast, I think, in that A, we've talked about this before. We'll talk about it a little bit more later of like the absolute like, the absolute like. late year glut that I don't think we have seen

quite since we every the earliest best picture nominee in this year's lineup is the Lord of the Rings which I believe came out on like December 17th or 18 and there's like a two week stretch where there's a million movies coming out so like this movie kind of suffered because of that and it also suffered from like the immediate post 9-11 cultural landscape, not just movies,

was all about this rallying sense of going through it together and patriotism and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And we all look back and we can know that it was toxic. And there were very few people among us who at the time were like, no, this is not how I feel. Well, it was that, but there was also, parallel to that, there was a sense

of let's not talk about it yet there like too soon didn't get invented then but like it kind of did and too soon to talk critically about it and talk critically about our response i think like this was the era where like shots of the twin towers were taken out of movies you know what i mean that like that that uh you you didn't want to ask audiences to even have to visually think about it during your movie. And I think to at that same time, at that point in time, you know, basically a year later, to add 9-11 imagery to a story that you didn't need to was very intentional and very different to what else, what everything else was happening at the time. It's a fascinating movie. It really is. 25th hour. Great movie. Total reasons why

it's more appreciated now than it was at the time that we will absolutely get into. We're already kind of just like diving deep into this movie. So let's do the plot description because I know we both want to talk about it. This is a movie we both really love. Yes. Guys, ladies, everyone in between, we're here to talk about the 25th hour or just 25th hour. It was originally, I think the book was called the 25th hour and the film for a while was also going to be called the 25th hour. hour. And then they took out the thought because it sounds cooler. Well, they were waiting for the gritty reboot.

Yeah. Whoa, God. What would a gritty reboot of this movie? I was going to say, like, what more do you want for me? It would be, I don't know, the print of the movie before anyone sees it, it is run through, I don't know, a sewer system, something. It's just about the Russian gangster. It's his origin story. It looks exactly like Darren Aronofsky's pie. You were not as nice to pie on your letterbox review as I wanted you to be there. I like, I mean, listen.

I think it holds up. I think it holds up. There's stuff about it that definitely holds up in this kind of wild. I can't really imagine a movie like that coming out today. But there's also a lot about it that's a little crunchy. Like, it's unavoidably crunchy. It's a movie that was shot for $5. Well, sure.

But, like, I don't know if I'm going to hold that against it, you know what I mean? Like, well, I hold it against it in that, it makes the movie feel more like a time capsule than a movie that, you know, holds up. Sure, sure, sure. There's movies that do things like that. Like, you think of Blair Witch that, you know, absolutely feels just as, you know. Well, Blair Witch, it was hard to avoid because, you know, it was real footage. Black and white. And what are you going to do?

Like, this was the footage. that they dug up in the middle of the woods and, like, you can't alter it. People died. It's a true. Searching for that Blair Witch. Derek Barry doing the people died about Blair Witch Project is actually a really good idea. Don't get that one away for free. That feels like something

you can make some hay with. Yeah. Derek Barry reacting to the Blair Witch Project. Yeah, I would tweet that and it would be for like 10 people. But they'd love it. Those 10 people would follow you to the ends of the earth. They would understand it. It would be like the two of us,

and I don't know what other errant homosexuals would get it. Listeners, we're here to talk about the 25th hour, directed by the Great Spike Lee, written by David Benioff based on his own book, starring Edward Norton Rosario, Dawson, Philips, Seymour, Hoffman, Barry Pepper, Anna Pacquine, our fifth Anna Pacquine. Yes. Second in a row, actually.

Whenever we do these second in a row, it truly... It's always an accident. It's always an accident. For Naomi Watts. Yeah. Oh, except for Naomi Watts when we did the miniseries. And it truly just is like, oh, we didn't really think about that very well the soon as I start. I mean, honestly, like, when we were making the planning of this, I don't look at a walk on the moon in 25th hour back to back and think.

Say Anna Pacquine. Ah, two Anna Pacquine films. Right. We do do it once, I think, with Kate Winslet where it was like she was the lead of both of those movies. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Also, Brian Cox and Acea Whitluck Jr. Yes. Tony Siragusa also, the late Tony Sirigusa.

There's a lot, actually, of dead cast members in this movie. Philip Seymour Hoffman, obviously, Tony Siragusa just recently died. He was a pro football player who Spike Lee saw on Hard Knocks, the documentary series on HBO, and thought he was so entertaining that he cast him in this movie. And then Patrice O'Neill is in that one scene briefly. as the bouncer at the club. So there was a lot of, I mean, in a movie that's already kind of an elegy

for things, I was like, wow, yeah. So, sad. Probably one of those subtextual unintended things that keeps giving this movie more and more power as we grow up. You know, okay, just because it came into my mind, the version

that I rented of this movie looks fine. This movie needs a restoration. Like, it's not a super available movie, and it's probably not going to get one, and it's probably not going to get better for this movie, because Disney owns it. We'll talk about it. I watched it on a, I ripped my own DVD copy years ago, but it was like a pretty basic, like first, first generation DVD from the, you know, from the mid-aughts. So, yeah, a restoration would not be uncalled for. It's not a movie that's supposed to look digitally pristine. but...

Right. You know... Well, this is also just a movie that in general probably deserves to be celebrated and shined up as much as possible. Perhaps you can do so with a 60-second plot description.

Hey, we'll do my best. I'm sure I'll run out of time, but we'll see how it goes. All right. Joseph Reed, your 60-second plot description for 25th hour starts now. All right, Montgomery Brogan is a New York City boy born and raised, but 24 hours from now

he'll be headed upstate to begin a seven-year prison sentence for dealing drugs. The Russian mobster, who he worked for wants to see him before he goes, which seems ominous. Meanwhile, Monty wants to have one last night of freedom with his friends Jacob and Francis, as well as his girlfriend, Natarelle, about whom Monty won't admit to himself how much he suspects she might have been the one to rat him out to the cops.

We get digressions into the lives of Jacob, who is a high school teacher and can't stop staring at a student, Anna Pacquin, who isn't playing Lisa Cohen from Marguerette, but she's not not playing her either. And Francis, who was a Wall Street asshole, only six years away from the entire financial systems, we know it. The two end up arguing over whether they're ever going to see Monty again after he enters prison. This all convergence that night at the nightclub where jailbate Pacwin gets Jacob to sneak her in and he kisses her. Francis grossly accuses natural of ruining Monty's life and Monty can't stop worrying about how he's going to

survive prison looking as pretty as he does. Meanwhile, Nikolai, the Russian mobster reveals to Monty that he thought was his friend was really the guy ratted him out and rather than kill him to prove how hard he can be, Monty watches his hands of the Russians entirely and then in the light of morning he bets him to beat the shit out of him so he'll look ugly enough to not be sexually assaulted in Otisville I guess and Francis tearfully obliges. he ends up with Monty's father driving him up the west side highway to surrender himself, but before they approach the off-ramp upstate, he proposes that they drive west as far as they can go and spins out an alternative for Monty where he never looks back and just starts

a new life in some desert town and we're left to linger on this fantasy as Monty leaves behind the row houses in Astoria, the Pennhouses on Park Avenue, the projects in the Bronx, the lofts in Soho, the tenements in Alphabet City, the brownstones and park slope and the split levels in Staten Island, perhaps never to return the end. That extra 32 seconds that it took you to do that. that are your 25th hour. Yeah, yeah, there we go. Yes.

I knew I was going over with that, but whatever I indulged it. Perfectly fine. You did so beautifully. Yeah. Thank you. All right. 25th hour. Not a super plotty movie, but a lot of vibes.

I could maybe do with some of, without some of the flashbacks, but beyond that. Yes. I think that's right. Although, I'm glad that the flashbacks. linger on Monty and Natuelle because that is a relationship I care about in this movie

more so than maybe any of the others. I think I don't necessarily I wouldn't necessarily get rid of the digressions into Jacob and Francis's lives because they do feel like, especially in the way that Spike directs them, it feels like

a whole picture of a moment in time and sort of a person social circle. And I think you do learn a little bit about Monty through Francis and through Jacob. I think the stuff with Anna Pac-win is pretty cliche, unfortunately, that, you know, sad, horny professor, lusting after his high school student. The stuff with Francis feels kind of like, you know, they cut scenes from boiler room. And yet, I think they add to the whole a lot better.

and I think you maybe don't get the impact of the scene with the two of them talking sort of with the Ground Zero site in the background, which is such an amazing scene. I wouldn't lose that for anything. And so if all of the rest of it is sort of of a piece with that, I think fine. Well, and see, this is where I feel like there's kind of this divide between the script and the movie as it's directed, because the script feels like small. But, like, I think at all these opportunities, Spike Lee is saying, no, this is big picture, this is big canvas, this is more than what's on the page, and, like, the kind of idea is just expanding it so much. The stuff with Anna Pacquins character, I feel like, is the thing that's pulling it back into the smallness of it? Like, I don't really know what that whole story adds to it. I mean, like, I am not someone who is going to ask for less female characters.

Sure. Right. But I don't know. I mean, maybe it's leaving a little bit on the table there where it's like she is the younger generation, not that much younger than these characters by, like, maybe 10, 15 years. But, like, the sense of, like, well, what does the future hold? That's, I think, a lot of what this movie is, like, questioning spiritually and the idea of, like, the things she's chasing, like, what her mindset is, doesn't maybe set us up for an optimistic future. But I think that's me extrapolating, not something that's actually in the way. Do we take any intentionality from the scene where she's trying to grub for a better grade and she sort of complains about her.

her classmate who got an A-plus for writing about his dad-grandmother because tragedy sells essentially. Do we feel like there's any kind of commentary being made in that, or is that just sort of coincidental? I'd have to think about that as

that more, because that's not a scene that really plays to me. So maybe if it's effectively doing that, it's subtextually, and I've not described it to that scene. But Lord knows I'll be watching this movie again at some point, so I'll watch out for that. It's interesting to sort of get into, I talked about it a little bit, the road that this

movie took to getting made, where I watched a clip of Spike Lee and Edward Norton on Charlie Rose, actually, before we recorded this, and it's interesting watching the two of them, Norton has such a reputation for being a meddler and being sort of difficult on set. They seem to have gotten along very well. They're both very sort of complimentary of each other. And I don't know. I just feel like it's an interesting, it sounds like, it feels like this movie had been in development before Spike Lee got to it, which is maybe an outlier in how he works. You know what I mean? Because he has written so many of his own screenplays. And this is obviously something that he's coming to that is not from him.

But it sounds like he and Benioff had a lot of, you know, collaboration together. I mean, it also sounds like a lot of trust was put in Spike Lee as anuteur to. That's my, that was my immediate feeling about Edward Norton is like, yes, he's known as those things. And we'll talk about Edward Norton. And we'll talk about his reputation, too. Yeah. He's known as those things unless it is a director he respects. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's like, it's clear that he respected Spike Lee. Oh, one of the other things in that Charlie Rose interview before I forget, too,

they talk about towards the end, like, what are you working on next? And Edward Norton's like, yeah, I'm working on a screenplay adaptation for this book, Motherless Brooklyn, which, so, okay, this is in like... It'll take almost 20 years. Early 2003, and it's funny because Spike Lee, at hearing the title, Motherless Brooklyn, like, perks up his ears. And he's like, what's that called? What's that? What's that about? Like, what's going on? And so I was,

it was interesting to see that just like, just from the, those, you probably couldn't find a title more apt to peak Spikeley's interest than Motherless Brooklyn. I'm not sure what they're, once he, you know, went into. Well, I mean, if only it had peaked his interest more, because Spike Lee would have definitely made a better movie than Edward Norton ultimately did. This is only our second Edward Norton movie. We've only ever done the painted veil otherwise. but I was going through his filmography. We have so many

options to do Edward Norton movies, motherless Brooklyn being one of them. Oh, I can't amount. I mean, sure, yes, but sitting through that movie again, oh, boy. I've never seen it, and I didn't see it because I was like, I'm only going to watch that movie once and it'll be for this podcast. It's never very good.

We'll do that movie eventually, and we can talk about it then. The thing, though, is, like, we have options to talk about Edward Norton. There's not a lot of movies, especially at this point in his career. It's almost interesting that there's more movies... There's more movies recently. Yeah, in the past decade,

which is not what you would think based on, like, his presence in the culture. Yeah. But, like, it's really striking, because this was maybe not how I remembered him, but it is true that Edward Norton came on as, like, a prestige actor, pretty hot and heavy. Oh, yeah.

Early on, he had that big first year where he's in three movies within the awards race, probably a second place for primal fear. Well, he won the Golden Globe, so yeah, I feel like I would be pretty confident in saying he was probably second place for primacy. And I couldn't tell you off the top of my head which critics awards he'd won, but he'd won some, like, prominent ones, if I remember correctly. Well, I will tell you in a second just as soon as I feel like it might be like Los Angeles. or something. I mean, he's tremendous in that movie. It's a very kind of, it's easy to chalk that role

up to a gimmick because there's a big reveal with it after. Let's see. He was nominated for BAFTA. One Boston Society of Film Critics, nominated for Critics' choice, one most promising actor at Chicago film critics and nominated for supporting

actor. As we go down. He won the Golden Globe, as I mentioned. Kansas City film critics. Yeah, Los Angeles film critics gave him Best Supporting Actor for all three of those performances. Everyone says, I love you, primal fear, the people versus Larry Flint. Everyone says, I love you, not Oscar nominated, but like it was a Golden Golds player. Yeah, and he was runner up at National Society also, I should say.

Yeah. Which is significant. Yes. I think he's tremendous in that movie. I think that is a cable TV staple of mine. That is a movie. Every time I see it on cable, I will watch it. It is... It gave TNT their identity. It is...

It's lurid legal drama done to a T. And the cast, Richard Gear, Laura Lina... Alphrey Woodard, Andre Brower, Moratirney, John Mahoney. Who the hell else is in this movie? It's just... It's so well cast. And everybody's doing, like, Laura Linney is the perfect rival district attorney. Elfrey Woodard is the perfect sort of perturbed judge.

John Mahoney is the perfect politico with an agenda. Like, everybody's doing their jobs perfectly in that movie. I really, really, it's junk, but it's such good junk. I really think it's fantastic. Well, and I think the reason why I feel so kind of, not taking a, back, but the thing of Edward Norton coming on basically hot and heavy in his career, aside from that being his first on-screen jobs, but then essentially his follow-up to that year is two years later where you have Rounders, which is very prominent, ultimately kind of a disappointment.

But almost immediately begins to amass a cult appreciation. I don't even want to say cult because it's so mainstreaming to call it cult. feels weird, but like a second a second wind essentially established. An army of defenders basically. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's a good and fun movie too, I will say, with a fantastic cast. Yes.

And then also his second nomination for American History X, which he is safely fifth place. Well, that nomination kind of came out of nowhere. That movie had been left for dead for a few reasons. The director kind of disavowed it because of

problems. A lot of Norton's meddling. Right, right, right. And so people had kind of, that had a lot of buzz early on, and then people had kind of given up on it, and then nomination morning happens, and he gets the surprise nomination

at the expense of, it should be said, Jim Carrey for the Truman Show, who everybody expected was going to get nominated. And I like both of those performances a lot and would have liked both of them to be nominated. But it said a lot about how respected he was, I thought, even with this sort of

burgeoning reputation for being a little bit difficult Of an asshole Well, but I mean like Certainly a level of respect Because I think he basically campaigned for himself For that role Like I don't know if he had much of you

That's why he and Salma Hayek got together Because they both knew that they signed each other The instinct to campaign for themselves Yeah That's right because they are both sitting stone-faced next to each other during that best actor reel before Roberto Benini

that best actor race is really interesting because there is a lot at play and very very competitive I mean we've talked about it a lot you could probably say Tom Hanks is fourth but like he kind of basically is taking the place at that

entire massive ensemble in what was the biggest movie of the year. Right. Saving Private Ryan. Yeah. Nick Nolte was such a hot contender. He probably basically is why Coburn won. Right.

Yeah. Surprise, not winning and best actor, sort of gets transferred by the transitive property onto James Coburn. And McKellen was the one looking back. I feel like if we could all do it over again, I think we'd all probably give that to McKellon for Gons and Monsters. Absolutely. Absolutely.

Yeah. because he may not be nominated again and that was his that was his moment that was the moment we didn't know it then sometimes when your first nomination is your moment that's when the Oscars will miss you and it's too bad that you can't have that kind of retrospect because it was right there it was as Merrill says in the hours that was happiness in that moment and we had it oh now released in the same week as 25th hour the hours the 25th hours can you imagine the mashup of those two movies it's weird that i've never done that um also we should say uh the next year after american history x was fight club which yes i think he's tremendous in again a movie with a twisty element sort of a little parallel to primal fear he kind of he doesn't meddle in because he respects his to david finch Sure. Right. He then directs himself in Keeping the Faith, a movie that did not do a ton at the time, but a lot of people really like it. It's very charming. What a nice movie. It is a movie about going to see a movie at the Lincoln Square movie theater, as far as I'm concerned. I feel like just a very long scene happens at the popcorn stand for a movie. What we're missing at the movies today is movies where people go to the movies. Yes. He did the score in 2001. Am I mistaken at thinking that that was a movie that also had a lot of behind the scenes. Rigameralds, it's a Frank Oz movie, and I feel like Frank Oz movies always tend to have this kind of thing.

Yes, I know that there is some scuttlebutt about that movie. Couldn't tell you what it is, but, like, that was also another movie that was a disappointment because it's like Edward Norton De Niro, but also Brando. That was the, they was sold, the hook on that movie was, the actors of three, subsequent generations, right? It was Brando and then De Niro and then Norton was supposed to be the next... I think we can all agree. Edward Norton probably came up with that hook himself because he would love you to believe he is the actor of his generation. But I also feel like the critical assessment at the time that did not feel far off. That felt like Edward Norton felt like your actor's actor at that moment, right, in a way that De Niro always did as well. Right. What else do we have for him? So after the

score is essentially this onslaught in 2002, 25th hour. He's in Frida briefly, playing Nelson Rockefeller. Interestingly, the same governor whose recidivism laws, or whatever drug laws, rather, ends up the reason why Montgomery Brogan is getting seven years in Otisville. So it all comes back around. He's also cast as Will Graham in Red Dragon, Brett Ratner's. a Hannibal Lecter movie, and he's also in Death to Smoochie. That's a real interesting... He's the titular Smoochie. Yeah, that's a real interesting year.

I've never seen Death to Smoochie, and I really want to. I remember, I saw it at the time. I remember, as I feel like with all Danny DeVito movies, watching it, and being like, that's a little much. Like, I always feel like the tone of it... Don't you dare besmirch, Matilda. I've never seen Matilda in any form. Excellent Danny DeVito film.

I've never seen the movie or the musical. and Matilda. I always feel like Danny DeVito movies, even like throw Mama from the train and whatnot. I'm always just like, it's a little bit more misanthropic than I'm looking for in a movie. And then the rest of the aughts and into the 2010s, it becomes a lot less defined a career. I don't know how you can go the through line from the Italian job, Kingdom of Heaven, down in the valley, the painted veil. Kingdom of Heaven where he's just, I'm pretty sure, just voiceover. I don't know. I mean, I'm sure the Kingdom of.

of heaven's fans will yell at me if he was actually on set. There's also two cuts to that, and I don't remember which one I've seen. So maybe in the extended... They're both five hours long. Maybe in the longer cut you do see his face, but in the cut that I saw,

which was the shorter one, I didn't. Wasn't he also kind of an asshole about the Italian job, like saying in interviews he only did that movie for money? I can't imagine that him and Mark Wahlberg sort of vying for

prominence in a movie would go well. That was an F. Gary Graham movie. I could have stopped 9-11 Mark Wahlberg. Right, right, right, right. And 25th hour, Edward Norton. Should I watch the Italian job? It seems like it could be fun. It's, it does. It's, it should be more fun than it is, but as it stands, it's pretty okay. It's okay. It's a good roller coaster at Kings Island, though I think they've changed the name. But so, Norton keeps working steadily, but again, the career just doesn't

feel like it has the coherence that you would expect from somebody who was on that De Niro track of being the, um, the actor of his generation. He's not Oscar nominated again until all the way in 2014 with Birdman, which felt like, um, a little bit of a comeback nomination, even though he hadn't really gone away. The tenor of it was a little bit like, where has he been? But he hadn't gone away. It was just, he hadn't been in a ton of movies that people talked about very much. Even in movies that were seen very much, he's in like the red-headed stepchild Marvel movie, right? He's in the

Incredible Hulk, the one that nobody wants to talk about. So, yeah, he's an interesting I've never felt like I've, I think a lot of people sort of took the stories about him being an asshole on set and you know, decided he was an asshole and sort of wrote him off. I feel like... The stories are.

also now two decades old. So today could be a different story. He probably is an incredibly difficult artist and a pain in the ass more than maybe like a yelly, shouty, abusive person. A bad guy. Right.

So probably high on his own supply and very, very, things very highly of himself as an actor, but I still will appreciate, I think he's, actually fit in pretty well into the Wes Anderson universe. His temperament

way, like, way more than I would have expected. If you would have said, Edward Norton. He's funny in those movies. You know what else? He's funny in speaking of of Wes Anderson. He hosted Saturday Night Live around, um, 20, like, sometime after he had done Moonrise Kingdom. And they did a sketch that was essentially a home invasion horror movie as directed by Wes Anderson. From the twisted mine of Wes Anderson, it's the midnight coterie of sinister intruders,

starring Owen Wilson as a man in danger. Wow, what the heck? There's a bunch of crazy people standing in our yard. Hey, hon, I think we're about to get murdered. And his terrified wife, Gwyneth Paltrow. He don't say. And he's essentially playing Owen Wilson in it. And he's so funny in it.

He actually, his SNL was strangely like low-key, pretty good. And I remember after that being like, oh, like, this is, you know, I had a different appreciation for him after that. I also think he's quite good in 25th hour to sort of bring it back to the movie. My goodness. This is my holdup with Edward Norton, especially people who have the reputation that he has, is like it can often be you're giving a very Edward Norton

performance and it's like he knows what boxes to stay in and how to deliver a certain type of monologue. This movie I actually feel like he's I hate kind of using the word authentic but his vulnerability feels authentic in this movie.

It feels like he's putting something on the line with this movie and not just being one of those park and bark actors that he can be sometimes. The most difficult thing to swallow in this movie, and I genuinely am not intending any kind of wordplay here, so please, is this idea how much of the plot of this movie hinges on Monty's certainty and fear that he's going to get beat up in prison.

He's too pretty, not to get not just beat up, but like sexually assaulted. Like he's pretty certain that he's going to get sexually assaulted in prison for seven. years because he's this like essentially like pretty white boy and it's one of those things where as

like there's probably some validity to that in a really sort of like dark truths of the world kind of thing you know what I mean? Like I'm sure prison is not fun and but as an audience member you're like it feels

like an odd thing to hang your plot on, this idea that, like, I'm just too pretty for prison. This is a real problem. And he does a very, very, very good job of selling that to me as an audience member in a way that I would have felt real incredulous about it otherwise. Well, I mean, it's it skirts a line of potentially being, you know, offensive. But I do think there's something to the performance. that it's like, it's not just that. It's about the hell he knows he's going to enter. Yeah.

It's being funneled through this one observation. But, like, yeah, in his performance... You see more wheels turning than words being said, you know, of, like, what he's saying he's afraid of. Yeah. Which is smart, and I, you know, it's one of my things about, like, that's probably not on the page. Right.

But it's, you know, the... the smart team behind this movie. Yeah. Yeah, Edward Norton's good in this movie. This is probably my favorite Edward Norton performance. I want to I want to rewatch Keeping the Faith because it's been years since I've seen it, but I also remember really liking him in that movie.

Yeah. And I've also had the impulse to watch Birdman. I know a lot of that probably made a lot of listeners throw up in their mouth. I like Birdman quite a bit. I had a real journey with Birdman. I appreciated a lot of it so much of it sticks in my craw that I'm not really positioned to grant it a whole lot of grace. And then on top of that for it to sort of stomp its way towards the Oscar wins than it did, including screenplay, which I was like, but I do probably owe it a rewatch as well. I have fun with it.

I think it's funny. I'm fully able to grant that that is a, you know, that is a legitimate response. The Lindsay Duncan of it all annoys people, but I think Lindsay Duncan in her performance is delicious. Sure, but to what end? I hate saying that. I'm like, my thing is like, stop comparing movies to food. And like, delicious is the word that's driving crazy. Eat before you come on this podcast, Chris, next time.

You know when they say, like, don't go grocery shopping on an empty stomach? Like, don't podcast on an empty stomach. Your metaphors will suffer. I guess let's not get too far ahead of things before we talk about Spike Lee, though, because this is our first Spike Lee movie, and he and the Oscars have a really fascinating history of them getting it and them not getting it. And it's worth sort of delving into. Obviously, the do the right thing stuff has been documented extensively. I feel like if the Oscars as an entity, as a sort of anthropomorphized entity, could go back in time and change one thing about themselves, they would go back to 1989 and nominate that movie for Best Picture and Best Director because they have caught no end of incredibly justified grief for.

that short sight, especially in the same year as driving Miss Daisy. Like, you talk about, what's the line in Invisible Man, where he's a pioneer in the field of optics? A disaster of unparalleled proportions in the field of optics was snubbing, do the right thing, the same year that you give Driving Miss Daisy, your Best Picture Award. I mean, like, not to jump ahead, but then in the year of his actual Oscar success is the year of Green Book. But it would be like Green Book and then also snubbing Black Klansmen. You know what I mean? Doing Green Book and yet at the same time. Not nominating Black Clansman.

Yeah. I mean, that's the year he wins. So it's like, and he ultimately, I think, comes out the better during that year. He gets to like throw some, some shade at Green Book during the year. What is to say? What was the one interview he gave where he was like, what did they say? The interviewer was from England. Is there something about Greenbrook that offends you? This is what I'm trying to get to. A fend? Are you British?

Yeah. Are you British? I am. Let me give you a British answer. It was my cup of tea. Not my cup of tea. And he goes, you're from England, right? What did they say in England?

It wasn't my cup of tea. And then he, like, cracks. So good. He cracks the hell up at how, like, he just made himself laugh. It's so endearing. He was so much fun that whole year. Well, I mean, here's the thing about Spike Lee. I think he's not someone who has necessarily cared about the Oscars and probably because he got burned so early.

I disagree. It's just not something. I mean, I don't think he's making movies that or has often made movies that have, like, gone for it. Though there's some that, like, if you watch Crooklyn now, you're like, this is ridiculous that this doesn't have, like, 12 Oscar nominations. And I hate to be one of those people that are like, well, why wasn't it? But, like, you watch Crooklyn, and it's like, Crooklyn is maybe my favorite film of this. You are correct in saying that Spike Lee has never made a movie with the intent to court the Oscars. But I think every time he's made a movie and the Oscars have not recognized it, he's taken it personally.

And I, like, when Four Little Girls gets overlooked, when do the right thing gets overlooked, when, you know what I mean? All of this stuff, I think, and I, you could see that in. the kind of release. I think he, for as much as the Oscars had burned him, he saw great conquest in finally getting to have that moment. You saw it in his Governor's Award speech, which was the year before that? How long before? Yes. Yeah. So like, yeah, I don't think he's making Crooklyn for the Oscars. I don't think he's making Red Hook Summer for the Oscars. And yet, I think, and, you know, rightly so. He is a filmmaker with a healthy ego, but it's not an unjustified ego.

And I think every time, and especially the ones where he gets close, Denzel Washington, losing best actor for Malcolm X to Al Pacino for sin of a woman, Spikely took personally. You know what I mean? Driving Miss Daisy winning Best Picture, Spikely took personally. And not for, you know, with. good reason, I would say. So, we have a good reason about that way of good. I mean, in talking about, like, him and Edward Norton, like, I love an artist with an ego. I think Spike Lee's ego absolutely adds to his films.

And, like, that's what I want from a filmmaker. But, like, I think he's proven very justified in, you know, his frustrations and what, why he's taking some of those things, as you say, personally. And I think when he actually won the screenplay Oscar for Black Klansmen, it's also in this kind of riding a wave of appreciation for Spike Lee in the culture, too, because, like, he was making these very small movies that not a lot of people saw, not a lot of people liked, like the Sweet Blood of Jesus or She Hate Me. in that, like, he was focusing on, like, doing, trying out, like, a lot of stuff with digital and, you know, still make, like, I'm someone who likes Shirek. I know a lot of people don't care for that movie. I like it. I had my problems with it, yeah. But, like, he kept doing a certain level of experimentation, and then when there's also Inside Man, in there, too, which is...

Good movie. When you watch it, not anonymous in terms of, like, it doesn't not feel like a Spike Lee movie. Right. But, like, even at the time when it came out, it's his biggest box office success he's ever had, but, like...

Yeah. It didn't feel promoted like a Spike Lee movie. It felt promoted like a Denzel Washington movie. Yes. Yes. Of all of the Spike Lee movies that I've seen, and I haven't seen all of them, uh,

At some point, I will have seen all of them. I'll work my way through them. Same. I'm missing, like, two or three. Not counting the documentaries. Oh, I'm missing more than that, but I won't get into it. Of the ones I've seen, I think he's only made one outright bad one, and that's, old boy. Like, that's the only one.

Oh, yeah. Where I was like, that's, that's a failure. I don't, I don't rate that one. But otherwise, even the ones that don't work, there is. He's always doing something interesting. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think that's right.

Apparently, the next movie he wants to make is a musical. I cannot fucking wait for it because I think that Spike Lee, like, this is where I get on my subbox, excuse me, for like three minutes here. Spike Lee, I think, has probably the greatest understanding of how music works in cinema than anyone in the fucking business. If you watch his filming of American Utopia and I would say even more so his capturing of passing strange he does like filmed theater which people tend to like write off and almost for good reason because usually it's people just filming whatever was on the stage he actually

approaches it with his own cinematic point of view in a way that like i cannot i cannot praise his version of passing strange enough i know that that is a very niche thing to say because like no one has seen that but like it's incredible yeah and american utopia You got a ton of praise two years ago for doing exactly that. And Passing Strange is even better than what he did with American Utopia. So I hope people seek it out. Yeah. He also does music within his non-theatrical ventures really well.

He's always integrated in music very, very skillfully. So I guess this is where we're going to segue into the Terence Blanchard of it all. Oh, my God. One of my favorite movie scores of the 21st century, it's incredibly powerful. When I talk about loving the more operatic moments of this movie, Terrence Blanchard is the star and featured performer of those moments. And this is a movie that front loads, like, from its opening moments, from those opening credits, the tribute in light, which was this installation of 88 searchlights projected

straight up into the air to sort of memorialize the Twin Towers after they were gone. The credits sort of move around the city and different angles at the tribute, all the while Terence Blanchard's score is playing. And talk about a mood setter, just absolutely, there is, there's drama to the score, there is mournfulness, there's a sense of occasion. It's incredible. There are, I mean, it is not

not riffing or borrowing or re-contextualizing a certain level of Americana musicality. It, it... With a, like, obviously a dark tone to it. It's tremendous.

It was not nominated for an Oscar, which is why we get to have this discussion here on our lovely podcast. But like talk about an injustice, although we've maybe talked about this before. The score, the original score race in 2002 is what I was going to say. Is all killer, no filler. Like there, I mean, in a year of all killer, no filler, this is probably still safely my favorite score of this year. Yes, with the caveat that you know how much, no, I can't even say that because I genuinely feel like Thomas Newman's Road to Perdition score is the best score he's ever done. And Thomas Newman is maybe my favorite film composer.

So, was Thomas Newman nominated for his score? Because I don't think he was. Yeah, he was. I just re-watch that movie. Frida wins. I know you were too mean to that one, too. Frida wins.

I was not too mean. You were. You were a little too mean. You're a little glip. You're a little glib. It's a dry movie. I like dry movies. It's a good movie.

Frida wins for Elliot Goldenthal. A thing that became an inevitability by the, the end of that season, but I remember when Frida won the Golden Globe for score, I was like, huh, that's an odd choice, and then he follows it up with the Oscar win. Catch me if you can, which is John Williams' best score in the last 20 years? Like, he really, for a composer who really had started to rest on his laurels and repeat himself and revisit old themes and whatever, there's a spryness to his Catch Me If You Can score that I find tremendous. We'll see how he theoretically says goodbye

with the fablements. We will see. In that we've heard that several movies are John Williams' retirement score. Yes. Elmer Bernstein is nominated for Far From Heaven. Classic pastiche. There was an assignment there, and he nailed it. Philip Glass for the hours. Plinky, plinky, plinky, plink.

I love it so much. And as I said, Thomas Newman for Road to Perdition, which is essentially, Sam Mendi's got the band back together after American Beauty, Sam Bandy's, Conrad Hall, and Thomas Newman to essentially be the core of Road to Perdition after American Beauty. Newman was so highly praised for his American Beauty score,

and that was a score that was copied a lot, including by him. I think Road to Perdition bests it by a good manner. Anyway, those are your Oscar nominees at the Golden Globes. 25th Hour was nominated, and rabbit-proof fence, the Peter Gabriel score for rabbit-proof fence, were nominated instead of Road to Perdition and Catch Me if you can. And then at the World Soundtrack Awards, it's essentially the same lineup as the Oscars, except instead of Road to Perdition, it's Howard Shore for Gangs of New York. and I just sort of jotted down

a couple others that year that I thought were notable Thomas Newman again for White O'Leander even if that is even like when I talk about him ripping off even more of a rip-off Of American Beauty, yes, but I still think it's very pretty Howard Shore with Lord of the Rings the Two Towers

which he had just won he won for Fellowship of the Ring, right? In O'1 I always forget him and then Andrew Lesney as cinematographer I think they, like, traded off, like, one, one year, and then one won the next year, and then they both won in the sweep. But anyway. Interesting.

Well, it wouldn't have won in 2003, Andrew Lesney wouldn't have, because it wasn't nominated in 03. Okay. Give me a second, then, and I will look this. Because famously, Return of the King didn't get that cinematography nomination. That's right. Okay. So, Howard Shore wins for Fellowship of the Ring. is not nominated for two towers and then wins again for Return of the King.

Cinematography in that span, as I vamp, as I scroll, and vamp... Cinematography, I'm rambling with song. So Andrew Lesney, the cinematographer, won for Fellowship of the Ring, was not nominated then in either of the two sequels, Two Towers or the Return of the King, which... Do you think that's just the cinematography branch took for granted that it would be nominated, or were they feeling like they were looking at too many pixels? Has he ever been nominated since then? He might just be, like, not part of their, like...

Club. I think that's his only nomination was Fellowship of the Ring. So maybe they were like, listen, we've got some... We don't know her. We've got some Ed Lachman and Michael Ballhouse. you know, it's movies to throw nominations, too. So I don't know. It's an interesting, it's an interesting note to me.

Terrence Blanchard, though, what a fucking career. So many bangers. Especially within the work of Spike Lee, he gets the, it's shocking that his first nomination was with Black Klansmen. And he gets the nomination also for Defive Bloods, which is, I mean, like, I don't want to say why we can't talk about Defy's. Bloods because the Five Bloods got fucking screwed. Oh, yeah.

In the pandemic year, when it's like, and the reason why is because Netflix was just throwing so much shit at the wall, they never really gave that movie its own due, which like, it could have been Spike Lee's Oscar. Like, it's not my favorite. I wouldn't even put it, like, towards my top five favorite Spike Lee movies, but like. No, I agree. The foundation was there, and they entirely flipped that. Yeah.

Yeah, Terence Blanchard is one of those, like, more instrumental, no pun intended, to us. I think you do mean some of these puns. Maybe subconsciously I do. But like, for the, you know, the greatness of a lot of these Spike Lee movies, it's right there. You know what I mean? It's right. It's so Malcolm X and Crooklyn. And, you know, four little girls and all of this stuff, Summer of Sam.

It's really tremendous. What are some of his more recent ones besides? Oh, he's doing the score for the Woman King. That sounds cool. That's why when I saw that, I was like, oh, oh, okay. Let's go. Not that, like, I'm not excited for that movie, but, like, knowing. I still don't, that trailer is so puzzled me that I'm still sort of working out what I think this movie is going to be.

And part of that is fun because it's like, this could be anything. Yeah. I don't know. It could be good. Versus like the Don't worry darling trailer, which feels like it's giving you everything of what the movie is going to be. Yes, but I'm also excited for that one, too. I feel like I'm the only one at this point who is leaving open the possibility that it could be good. And then there's also the TAR trailer, which gives you quite literally nothing but sweaty Kate Blanchet, and that's all you need.

Well, and all you really expect, too, because of, that's Todd Field's sort of thing. But anyway, yeah, Terrence Blanchard, fucking rules, the score for 25th hour, fucking rules. 2002 in original score, fucking rules, the best category of my lifetime, probably, and it did not have enough room for all of the best ones. So, yeah, that's fantastic. Do you want to talk about anyone else in the cast? I want to talk about Brian Cox. Please, please.

One of my favorite subjects. It's our third. It's Zodiac and Running with Scissors. This was the year I talk about all the time where Brian Cox in the same fall, in the span of like October to December, is in the ring for one scene and blows the doors off the place. and literally, like, electrocutes himself to death, and the audience goes with him. You know what I mean? It's such a good scene.

And again, the line deliveries in all of these, and I'm not going to do it. But, like, my wife was never supposed to have a child is delivered with the depths of his, like, shoe tops. It's amazing. Then he's in Spike Jones's adaptation, Charlie Kaufman, Spike Jones's adaptation for, again, one scene blows the doors off the place. Like, I've watched the Robert McKee scene in adaptation 100 times by now. It's so fucking good. And then in 25th hour, he ups the ante and decides, hey, I'm going to be in two scenes and blow the doors off the place and absolutely, like, leave you in tatters and tears and whatnot.

And it's like, what an amazing year to be able to sort of. And he was somebody, he had gotten some critics love for LIE, and he had been in, he had been in movies. It's not like he hadn't been in movies. He had been in a lot of movies. But he was not somebody who people knew by name until LIE. And that was even just with like the indie crowd, right? Because of what that movie was and what its subject matter was.

Right. I've never seen it. Have you seen it? L.A. Yeah. Maybe five or six years ago or whatever. It's heavy. It's not super available, too, so...

That's not super surprising. Not surprising. Yeah. But you would think it would get some level of reassessment because of succession. Yeah. Speaking of which, we are recording this right before the Emmy, or this will drop right before the Emmys, and I really need him to... Obviously, the big Brian Cox thing from the early part of his career is he played Hannibal Lecter in Manhunter, in Michael Mann's Manhunter.

the level of which how how much that movie did or did not sort of sink into the public consciousness is tough to gauge because so much of it is sort of after the Silence of the Lambs people going back and being like

aha ha ha Michael Man made Manhunter you know how the Michael Man fans do they will never miss an opportunity to remind you that he did something or you know newest most annoying fan based don't come after me.

God bless them. I know many of them. I think they're good people, but holy shit, y'all. No, no, no. The standom. It's different. The individuals you're thinking of are not like the standum. The standum is touches.

Everything the light touches turns to standem sometimes with the Michael man people, though. Like, honestly. Whatever. I'm annoying about a lot of things. So like, I get it. one of my favorite early Brian Cox, and when I say early, I mean before this, you know,

reassessment in 2002 or whatever. He's in The Long Kiss Good Night. I've talked about this before. He shows up for a couple of scenes. He admonishes a dog for licking its asshole. And then he calls Gina Davis says that she's showed up quite a X number of years later and a good deal frumpier. And it's, again, it's that long.

line delivery, right? There is something about that theater-trained sort of line delivery that kills. He's in Rushmore. You don't know what you're going to get with Brian Cox. Is he going to make you crumble to ash, or is he going to give you a hug? Like the type of life-restoring hug that we all need. Yeah. He's in Rushmore, speaking of Wes Anderson. He's in... A movie we haven't talked about, but could. He's in that movie Super Troopers that I never saw, but it was the broken lizard folk. And then... Five minutes into Super Troopers, and I was out.

And then, so, oh, also in 2002, besides the three movies that I talked, he's also in the Born Identity. Yes. As one of the, what's the super secret organization there? Treadstone. Right? Something.

Is maybe Treadstone a tire company. If I'm wrong about Treadstone, somebody yell at me. I will much happier take people yelling at me about the Bourne movie. Is that about Michael Mann? And yeah, and so then from then on, he becomes, like, a popular choice to cast as a heavy in X-Men 2, in Troy, in... Top-tier bureaucrat. Yeah, he's, like, yes, like, often sinister bureaucrat. But, like, he works a lot. So, and then he starts to, like, take these parts that are

on the surface typical bureaucrat or whatever but like is weirder his zodiac character is a little his whatever is very egomaniacal and kind of a dandy yeah and he's funny he shows up on deadwood

as a as the leader of this theater troupe who is kind of a dandy again a little bit and I don't know he's just a tremendous actor I love that succession is finally giving the greater grander public an appreciation of him but like always one of my faves he's so good in 25th hour holy shit

chris talk about how good he is in 25th hour he's amazing in 25th hour he is everyone's daddy um like truly the quintessential Irish bar owner right he's not even Irish is he yeah Brian Cox I thought was well oh I thought you meant the character um Or is he a Scotsman? Hold on. Please hold. Brian Cox, the illustrious actor of stage and screen, was born in Scotland. Yeah, he's Scottish.

The quintessential man you just want to have a pint with. But then, like, the delivery of that monologue is so not unaffected, but unsentimental towards the way in a way that, like, only, like, dad, Brian Cox, can, like, really fully destroy you by not being sentimental about it. There are ways to have played this character as overbearing or overly harsh in his delivery and demeanor or whatever. There is an essential kindness to this man, an essential sort of soft regret to this guy that is so important to where this movie. ends up and especially like tonally because like you can imagine who are maybe some of his like contemporaries people that would probably wring it out for too much that would sentimentalize it in a way that would be ultimately less effective and ultimately less

Charles Durning or something yeah yeah yeah or like I was even thinking of like a Cranston or something oh well he would have been much younger than could be Cranston Yeah. I don't know. Just like very appropriately measured to a way that makes it the most effective. And I don't know. There's something about that monologue that's like very attached to legacy. Like what we want for our future is also what came before us, what will come after us type of thing that like I think Brian Cox brings a lot of gravity to. Yeah.

You just cast Brian Cox and half of the work is done in this role. Yeah. Yeah, it's really tremendous. I think even though he's not in this movie a ton, if this movie had been appreciated on the level that we maybe think it deserved to be, that is a very deserving supporting actor nomination if you were to get it. Well, and also if it was appreciated on the level that we both think it should have been, Brian Cox probably would be.

playing these succession tier roles a lot earlier than, like, you know, the slew of blue bureaucrats. I think that's right. I think that's right. What did you think of Rosario Dawson in this movie? I love Rosario Dawson, like, period, point blank. Yeah. I think she's great in this specifically, though.

I mean, it's not a particularly well or interestingly written character, but, like, I think one of the reasons she does, because, like, I think Rosario Dawson is. one of those performers who is underrated because, I mean, bare minimum, what she's going to bring to a role is a level of believability, like you are watching a real and fully fleshed-out person, even though I think often she's been saddled with parts like this that are not developed as much on the page. But, like, she's always a performer, you believe every word out of her mouth. And, like, that is, that accounts for more than it sounds like it accounts for. is also a very loyal filmmaker goes back to the well of his old cast members a lot. Her big

breakout role was in He Got Game in 1998. I know she was also in Kids, but he got game. We don't talk about kids. Well, and also, like, she's in kids, Chloe Seventy's and Kids. And, like, I guess if anyone's going to be seen as a breakout from kids, it would be Chloe 70 because I feel like people tracked her career from then. Whereas with Rosario Dawson, it was more like oh this girl who's in he got game remember she was also in kids um and then after he got game she sort of there's a little bit of a struggle to find uh a place for her she's in josie and the pussycats of course underrated movie great movie fantastic movie um but it's not till 2002 she's in 25th hour i mean it's not all great for her because she's also in

adventures in pluto nash um but she's in the 25th hour, which she's great in, she's in Men and Black 2, which makes a lot of money, and then it moves from there. And she's sort of it's the steady raising of a profile, shattered glass,

the rundown, Alexander, Sin City, rent, of course, then in 2005. So... Problematic fave, trance. Yes. I love that you will bring up trance as often as possible. I don't. I don't.

I don't know why I like that movie. I don't know. She's tremendous in it, doing some real bonkers shit. She's been doing a lot of her best work and sort of her more satisfying work has been lately on television. She was in a show called Briar Patch in late 20 teens that I didn't love, but she was the lead in and she was good in. she's got her Star Wars series coming up. She was in Dope Sick, which was a huge big success. I still haven't watched that.

I haven't either. It's one of those things where the subject matter of it feels so depressing. Like, I feel like, I don't know, I feel like I'm the cop out to do that. But whatever. She was also in all those Netflix Marvel shows playing Claire Temple, Daredevil, and Jessica Jones, and Luke Cage and all of that. movie-wise, I need somebody to recognize how great she is and start giving her better roles. The fact that, like, the three most recent movies on her Wikipedia page in terms of film are Space Jam and New Legacy, the upcoming Clerks Three, and the upcoming Haunted Mansion movie, which didn't we already do a haunted mansion movie? Yeah, the Eddie Murphy haunted mansion movie.

Well, Justin Simeon is doing it again. I love Justin Simeon, too. But, like, I could be into a new haunted mansion movie. I could. The cast is pretty good. Okay. Well, I'm reading down the cast. Rosario Dawson, thumbs up.

Lekeith Stanfield, maybe thumbs up. Owen Wilson, thumbs up. Tiffany Haddish, thumbs up. Jared Leto. Thumbs down. Yeah, but he's playing like a ghost in a top hat. That doesn't make me feel better. is anyway. I don't think he's going to be

significant. Jared Leto as the voice of Alistair Crump slash hatbox ghost. Great. Whatever. Danny DeVito. Good. Jamie Lee Curtis. Good. So like, yeah. Oh, yeah. They'll probably

sell me on wanting to see this at some point. But, like, also, like, let's let Rosario Dawson be in real movies again. Yeah. I agree. Let's do that. Let's do that challenge, Hollywood. Uh, Philip Seymour Hoffman and Barry Pepper. I mean, I feel like I should be, have more to say about Barry Pepper in this movie. I feel like he has the more significant part than Philip Seymour Hoffman.

He's a real son of a bitch. Yeah. Barry Pepper is not someone, I mean, like, Barry Pepper is just one of those guys who, like, you know, journeyman actors, shows up in a lot of things. Secret Scientologist. Oh, that I didn't know. Battlefield Earth. Yeah, the Battlefield Earth. I mean, not everyone in Battlefield Earth is a Scientologist.

Worcetticoe is a side talk. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The Barry Pepper is a side talk. But, like, I don't know. I'm sure people might yell at me to have, like, the one Barry Pepper performance, but a lot of Barry Pepper's work does kind of blur together. But, like, he's never bad. He's good in true grip.

Everyone's so good at True. That's true. You know who my favorite performance. I keep saying it's my favorite performance. and True Grid is, though. Well, no. Second, my two favorite performances. You love Elizabeth Marvel, but I think you're going to say Damon.

No, it's Donald Gleason. Oh, of course. He's in it for like half a scene, but he's so good. To get shot. Yeah, but he's great. In that movie to get shot. But he's great. He's great in that.

No, Elizabeth Marvel. People don't talk enough about how tremendous Haley Seinfeld is in that movie. And like, caveat being she got nominated for an Oscar for her first on-screen performance. In a category, she didn't belong in, like, Haley did fine. I mean, she would have belonged to Best Actress. Yeah. I love that movie so much.

Did you just do The Holly Hunter in Raising Arizona, but about True Grit? I feel like I've grandstanded about the Cohen's True Grit enough on this podcast. Is that your favorite, Coins? The thing is, like, I feel like

that's always a transient thing, right? But, like, at this current moment, it just kind of is. Like, I, I know that's not cool. Oh, come on hip. True Grid is a cool Cohen's choice. They're all cool choices. You can't do a not cool cohen's choice. I mean, there are not cool choices.

Well, Lady Killers is not a cool. Yeah, who's out here saying Lady Killers? That's not cool. Yeah. My favorite is the most boring one. It's not uncool, but, like, it's Fargo. It's always been Fargo. You know, it's never better than Fargo.

Um, anyway, yeah. What's your favorite Spike Lee? Oh. I mean, again, it's kind of a boring choice, but it's do the right thing. This is up there. I mean, do the right thing is not a wrong choice. 25th hour's up there, but do the right thing is my favorite. I mean, do the right thing is my academic choice, but like I would...

Crooklyn's your favorite. It's Crooklyn. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, Crickland's great. Alfred and Delroy Lindo are so great. Oh, my God. That should be Alfred.

It's Oscar. My God. A lot of things should be Alfrewood or it's Oscar. But, yeah. It's true. It's true. Philip Seymour Hoffman, it's interesting to have an actor of the stature of Philip Seymour Hoffman, who was just about to break into his Oscar period only a few years after this. This was during the Philip Seymour Hoffman is the best actor to have never been nominated for an Oscar sort of phase of his career, right?

Boogie Knights roughly through what's the like most recent, most, the closest to Capote he got. I mean, that, like, 99, 2000 stretch is so many of the reasons why he got that, that I kind of at this point. O3, he's in Cold Mountain briefly. Yeah. You know what it is? And it's only in retrospect. But, like, have you ever talked to somebody who's like, you know who gives an astounding performance is Philip Seymour Hoffman and Along Came Polly? I've never seen that movie, but a lot of people.

I've talked to a lot of heterosexual men who say things like that. You're like, yes, I have spoken to a straight man. Yeah. But, okay, so starting with Boogie Nights, right? Boogie Nights, Lobowski, happiness, flawless, Ripley, Magnolia, State and Maine, almost famous, love Liza, punch drunk love, Red Dragon, which, as junkies that movie is, he's absolutely the thing I remember most about that movie. I mean, is him on fire in that chair, sort of going down the hill. that movie that movie is a good quality junk though we do not we do not support brett ratner but that is brett ratner's easily best it's an incredible cast to emily watson yeah they're doing 90% of the way louise parker or anyway back to film super hoffman

25th hour owning mahoney cold mountain along came polly and then capote in 2005 that is i mean the people who said best actor do have never been nominated for an Oscar they sure weren't wrong he worked a lot And he worked very memorably. Because it's not just a best actor to never be nominated for an Oscar. It's also a thing, and I've talked about this before, where it's like, there are just those performers that the first time they get nominated for an Oscar, they're going to win. That's one of the things that I was so disappointed about, like, Delroy Lindo,

not getting what he deserved for Defy Bloods all season because he feels like that kind of actor. You know who else was that kind of actor? Was Regina King? Oh, 1,000. You knew as soon as she got nominated that she was going to win, yeah. It's not quite the same thing as Octavia Spencer because, like, Octavia Spencer, I'm like, she worked with everybody in the business and had a great relationship. Of course, she won. But, like, just these people who have been around for a long time have been very appreciated for a very long time, but have never gotten that unique opportunity, that the second that they do, of course, they're going to get it.

Yeah. I agree. In terms of 25th hour, though, it's interesting. He's always the last person I think of in this movie. And that's probably because I think his character is the least essential. I mean, yeah. And I would probably go as far as to say the least interesting. Right.

I can see for as much as Barry Pepper as Frank, Francis, whatever, is gross to me and objectionable. and I understand his place in that story. And I feel like I think the story can't exist without him. I don't know if you can say the same about Jacob. I'm not sure what... It's leaving a lot on the table. I'm not sure what that character says about the greater story being told. Well, and this is one of the things that I feel like I'm being tough on the script for

because I feel like what this original... script is is probably a little bit more cliche where it's like if you're going to have a movie where it's about a group of friends you have to have a third friend you know and it's like but it doesn't necessarily find as much interesting to do with that character but like because spike lee is kind of expanding the vision of what this like script is and what it means like it becomes less of that type of movie but like when you look at one of the like some of the snags in this movie I think it goes back to the intention of the script being something

different. I think that's right. Yeah. Do we want to start sort of wrapping up going through strays and miscellania and whatnot? Sure. What else do we have on your notes? Let's see. So

I talked about the opening credits, the Tribute and Light. I kept just writing down locations throughout this movie because I wanted to sort of keep Monty moves around the city a lot. lot in this movie, kind of intentionally. And so sometimes he's on the Upper East Side. Sometimes he's down Battery Park, and we're moving all around.

And so I just kept, like, jotting things down. Of course, anytime there's an IMAQ in a classroom anywhere, I will make a note of that. This is, of course, the peak IMAQ in a classroom era. Oh, I did write down, Edward Norton looks so much like Lin-Manuel Miranda in this movie. Did you catch Do you think so? Is it just the goatee? Is it just the goatee on somebody that makes me think that?

I don't know. I don't know. Okay. Isaiah Whitlock, Jr., bringing his catchphrase from The Wire into this movie, kind of blew me away. I didn't even watch The Wire at the time, and I knew that his character, that she, like, that line is a callback to the Wire. I was like, that Spikes going for it.

that... I would watch Isaiah Whitlock in anything. Yes. I mean, all right, we talked about Jacob and Francis. The scene of the two of them talking, overlooking ground zero. And it's the most, besides the opening credits, is the thing that most directly references 9-11.

It's the one where they're actually talking about it. They talk about, you know, the air quality down there. the whatever um i don't know i just think it's worth mentioning that i think it it justifies those two characters being in this thing in that they are the ones who are dealing with the aftermath right of monte going to jail he's going to go to jail and they are essentially afraid they're going to lose their friend forever, that whatever version of him that existed before this is going to be gone. And I think that's where when I talked about there's anxiety in this movie, along with a lot of other emotions, I feel that so much in that

scene. Whereas I think that Spike Lee sort of overlooking this like still smoking crater essentially, and being like, is there any possible way that things are the same after this? You know what I mean? That you can sort of... Do we have the security of the sameness of history? Well, even just the character of it. So much of this movie, I think, talks about, like, the character of New York as a city, as a people, as whatever. And the idea of that scene is, when Moni comes back,

he'll have changed so much and will have changed so much that or will have maybe not changed as much as he has that there's going to be no fitting it back into the way it was. And I think there's that anxiety of this city, this character of a city that I love so much, you know, there's maybe no recapturing how we felt on September 10th, you know? Mm-hmm. So there's that. No, I mean, like we've talked about that scene. I love that scene. I almost feel like there's something to that scene that it's like it could be too much. It could be too themey like for the movie to carry.

But I think it spends the rest of that movie with maybe a little bit more nuance. Because you mentioned it's like one of the few times that it feels like 9-11 is directly referenced. I feel like what follows from that scene is supposed to be as much like the nuance, the actual substance of the plot. like in a way to me it's very tropey like not to sound like academic or basic whatever but of like you know the shakespeare scenes before macbeth shows up the shakespeare scenes before richard the third shows up you know it just like the trope within like uh classics like that where it's like you know you have a few guys talking about what the situation is and like there's something about that, like, I don't think that's on the page, but I do think that's how, you know, Spike Lee is

delivering it to us that, like, again, just adds to kind of the big canvas. It makes this feel like more of a story than what it's about. Yeah. My last note is, in 2002, Rodrigo Preeto did cinematography for 25th hour and Frida and 8 Mile all in the same year. Like, that's a pretty good year. You know what I mean? To work with... Three very different movies. Three and three very different filmmakers in Spike Lee, Julie Tamor, and Curtis Hanson. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was interesting. I wanted to talk a little bit about Touchstone

pictures because I feel like on top of the somewhat hot potato, we don't know what to do with this movie, the you know, the onslaught of the December 2002 calendar in terms of awards and such.

This movie is also released by Touchstone, which was a Disney property. Keep in mind also that Miramax was owned by Disney so like a lot of the kind of awardsy or like prestigey stuff was within that wheelhouse and not really within Touchstone and they had you know awards player movies but I feel like when you look at what some of those movies are like early West Anderson movies they don't really have a home run so Some of this, I think, is also that the movie's being handled by, you know, not the most awards intended or awards-saviest. The awards went elsewhere in the conglomerate around that time. Yeah. Yeah.

It's worth mentioning. I mean, there's other examples, too. You have things like, O'Brother were art thou. Yes. Et cetera. Yeah. No, I think that's right. I think that's worth mentioning.

Yeah, yeah. Beloved's another example. um another one from that same year that also didn't get maybe didn't get any is this a movie that is eligible for us is signs a movie we could do uh i don't think it got any nominations because that's another one where you feel like at the very least on a craft level they could have gotten something that is a movie that looks phenomenal that is a movie that sounds phenomenal it's still in the stage of m night's chamelon movies following. I mean, now we don't have those conversations at all. And Shaman's not really considered at all in terms of awards. But probably through Unbreakable and Signs, he was, you know? Unbreakable also. But like the village got at least one nomination. You know what I mean? So like,

I don't know. Justice for Science. Science is fantastic. That is my favorite Mnight Shyamalan movie. Well God, I'm kombucha girling all over the place Yes, I think I will say that Signs is my favorite, I'm my Shaman movie The Sixth Sense is a close second, but yes I mean, I really haven't re-watched a lot of his movies

In quite some time Old for all of its Snags is still a wonderful experience. A wonderful movie, I loved Old so much. I am not capable of dissenting against a Vicky Creep's vehicle. All right, should we move on to the IMDB game? Yeah, why don't you tell our listeners what the IMDB game is?

All right, every week we end our episodes with the IMDB game, where we challenge each other with an actor or actress and try and guess the top four titles that IMDB says they're most known for. If any of those titles are television, voice-only performances, or non-acting credits, we mentioned that up front. After two wrong guesses, we get the remaining titles release years as a clue, and if that's not enough, it just becomes a free-for-all-hints. the IMDB

Free for all hints and flying fists from your best friend who you are begging to beat the shit out of you. To beat you up. You know, they might have been more willing to beat him up if he had said,

beat me up daddy. Okay. I don't know. When I see Brian Cox, I'm like, okay, all right. This is the, we're delving into psychosexual stuff and it's an hour and a half into this podcast.

We needed to start way sooner if we wanted to get into that. It's just not enough time to get into it. I don't actually mean it in that way. It's the colloquial daddy. What you're saying is, you're loving it when it comes to Brian Cox. I'm pretty sure he says I'm loving it first and then, then does whatever he wants to do.

I've made a terrible mistake. All right. IMDB game. Are you giving your guessing first? I'll guess first. All right. So I went into the filmography of Spike Lee. Sure.

We have talked much in this episode about justice for Delroy Lindo. So I got Delroy Lindo for you. Okay. Any television? No television. Okay. Del Roy Lindo, a classic I-Nus. MDB game conundrum, where...

Because he's in a million movies. He's in a lot of movies. Do you go for the popular ones that he's maybe in smaller roles or the maybe more niche ones that he's in bigger roles? I will probably guess Crooklyn. Crooklyn is incorrect. He should have also been nominated for that. Five Bloods is also a tough one because Netflix, although Netflix is starting to show up in

things now in IMDB game, but I'm still going to maybe not do. that. Good old Delroy. Do I go for any other spike? Or something like, even something like the devil's advocate, which I feel like I see a lot

in IMDB game. Maybe because that movie rules. It does rule. He's in a... It's a bad movie that rules. He's also a weird part of that movie, though, where he's like this, like, voodoo practitioner

who killed a woman or something. That's not offensive at all. Yeah. All right, I'm going to, God, this is going to be my second strike, but I'm just going to throw it out there. Clockers. Also incorrect.

All right. All right. So you're getting four years. I'm glad that I stumped you for once. I feel like I've been nice. So like I picked somebody. Get ready. I picked a hard one for you too, so get ready.

I feel less bad about it now. 1992, 1995, 2003, and 2020. Is 2025, Bloods? It is. Wow. Good for IMDV game. All right, 1992 is Malcolm X. It is.

What are the other years? 95 and 2003. Our beloved 2003. 95 and 03. Ooh. 95. is going to be the one with the most egg on your face. Really?

It's a big, it's a biggie? Yeah. Well, I mean, I can't tell you because you're going to get it immediately, but... Is it like a major role of his or a major movie that I should remember? Or both. You should definitely remember this movie for the reasons of this podcast, because we've done an episode on it, I'll just say. Oh, okay. From 95?

What did we do from 95? That's not like how to make an American quilt. Ransom is 96. Correct. What other Delroy's have we done? All right, what's the other year? 03. 03.

5.5. O3 is a movie I feel like a lot of people were semi-ironically watching during the pandemic. You know, especially during the phase of, like, people were like, let's watch end of the world movies during the pandemic. Oh, an end of the world movie from 03. Or a disaster movie. A disaster. Not. This movie itself is a disaster.

This movie's hilarious. Oh, oh, is it? No, it's not the core. Or is it the core? It's the core fucking rules. It's so bad, but it's so good. The core is so silly. It's so silly, but it's so good.

He's so great in that. God. 95 is a movie that we have done. The reason we did this episode was specifically for one actor, though, like, this had success elsewhere beyond that one actor. What's the genre? Comedy. A comedy? We thought a comedy could make it in 1995.

What fools were we? Well, we thought it could make it because this actor had recent, had a huge comeback. Oh, it's get shorty. Of course it is. Get shorty. Yeah. Yeah.

He's great in that. You're right. I am kicking myself. I should have done better on that. Oh, well. I mean, he's in a billion movies. I don't know how you can forget the core. That's exactly the movie you think of when you think of Deli Lindo.

Honestly, it's probably in the top ten of movies I think of what I think of Del Rar Lindo. I probably should have come up with that sooner. All right. I mean, thank goodness, Defy Bloods is there because, like, one of the best performances of the past 25 years. Yeah, yeah. No question. No, no hesitations. Should have won the Oscar.

Absolutely. Okay. For you, I went through the vector of screenwriter author David Benioff, who in real life is married. Quite a journey going through his filmography. Well, I didn't so much. I just went to his personal life tab because he is married, of course, to Amanda Pete. Mr. Amanda Pete. So I'm giving you Amanda Pete.

No television. Sorry fans of Studio 60 on the sunset strip. Sorry fans of Jack and Jill. Sorry fans of that TV show she did with Melanie Linsky that I can't remember the title of. Happiness? Amanda Pete. Anyway, whatever. A lot like love showed up for Ashton Coucher, so I'm going to guess a lot like love.

You're a psychopath for getting that right. Like, genuinely, I'm looking at this. It took me forever to get that movie. I will never. And I'm like, he's going to maybe get some of these other ones, but he's never going to get a lot like love. Mother. It showed up for someone else.

I'm forgetting whatever her, like, sexy movie was. Like, not Wild Things, but she was in a movie that was like Wild Things, right? And I can't remember what it is. If you're looking for hints on my face. Togetherness was the show, by the way, that I was thinking of with Melanie Linsky. Oh, I still want to catch up to that show. It was good.

Yeah, I know. People that I trust really liked that show. And, like, one season, sign me up. Like, I don't have to watch 70 episodes of something. Great. Ickby goes down. You would think, but no. Oh, I had a feeling.

Some things got to give. No. Not something's got to give. I would have thought maybe that too All right So your I mean it's a crap part Like that's not the part

You want to play in that movie But That is sort of It's not her sexy movie But like that is when she was in the range of playing like She's like the hot one in that movie Right She's the hot young one

Um All right your years Are 2000 Years I don't think they're going to help 2000 2003 and 2009 2009 2009 Really

Um now I just have to remember other Amanda Pete movies and I like Amanda Pete so like getting into this headspace of like blankness is very frustrating is 2000 it's what's the one with is it Shane West

whatever it takes I don't know if she's in that it's not that but there's like a teen movie with four of on there. Oh, it's not saving Silverman, but there's a Jason Biggs one. It's saving Silverman. It's not correct. It's not correct, but that's the movie you're thinking of, yeah.

Oh, damn. But that's not the one I'm looking for. No. No, there's one where there's four, like, teams on a poster. That's saving Silverman. No, but there's one. I think it's even James Franco is like her love interest. Hold on.

on the whole nine yards that's the one in 2000 yes correct okay I'm looking up whatever it takes now because I think you've got everything else about that movie but I don't think Amanda Pete is in that movie whatever it takes Shane West Marla Sokoloff is maybe who you're thinking of Jody Lynn O'Keefe

Jody Lin O'Keefe is who I'm thinking of I apologize um the whole 10 yards No Okay All right So you still need

O3 and 09 Um O3 is a movie With a lot of people in it A lot of cast members In a genre that Sort of calls for exactly that Is it like Casa de los Babies

No What other kind of genre You're like Oh we need to cast like a lot of people In this for the function of the plot. Slasher movie. More specific than slasher, but you're not on the right track.

A Robert Altman movie. No, like, oh, a crime has been committed. Oh, is it identity? It's identity, yes. Identity. A who done it. Yeah. All right.

A who done it all in one person's mind. Exactly. Stupid. It's stupid, but it's stupid. It's very watchable. I like it. All right, the 2009 movie is ironic for being a 2009 movie. Oh, it's 2012. Stupid. I've never seen 2012.

2012, the tagline, We Were Warned. It is stupid. And in terms of disaster movies that are exactly like each other, it's not. as good as the day after tomorrow. The day after tomorrow has what 2012 wants, as far as I'm concerned. Amanda Pete, good performer, like, natural talent has that Rosario Dawson thing, where it's, like, everything that comes out of their mouth, you believe it. But, like, never got a chance to be great.

Give us a movie with Amanda Pete and Rosario Dawson. I take that back. What? Isn't she in, like, a Lynn, no, she's in... Please Give. Yes, she's in Please Give. If everyone is great, and please give.

Yeah. Nicole, we'll work with Amanda Pete again and cast Rosario Dawson with her. Oh, that would be great. Do it. We get a new Nicole Hollif Center movie next year. I'm very excited.

All right. Good episode. Good episode. That, I believe, is it. If you want more, This Had Oscar Buzz, you can check out the Tumblr at this had oscarbuzz. com.

Please also follow us on Twitter at Had underscore Oscar Buzz. Joe, where can the listeners find more of you? Twitter, for one thing, letterboxed, for another thing, both of which are at Joe Reed, read-spelled REID. And I am on Twitter and letterbox at Krispy File. That's F-E-I-L.

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Yay! ...of a story to the penthouses on Park Avenue. From the projects in the Bronx to the lofts in Soho, from the tenements and alphabet city to the brownstones and park slope to the split levels in Staten Island. Let an earthquake crumble it. Let the fires rage.

Let it burn to fucking ash, and let the waters rise and suburb. emerge this whole rat infested place.