This Had Oscar Buzz - 213 – Where’d You Go, Bernadette

Episode Date: October 3, 2022

As Cate Blanchett inches towards a possible third acting Oscar with this week’s Tár, we look back at the quickly forgotten Where’d You Go, Bernadette. Based on the praised novel by Maria Semple about an eccentric former architect’s disappearance, the film paired Blanchett with director Richard Linklater (and reunited her with actor Billy Crudup, playing her … Continue reading "213 – Where’d You Go, Bernadette"

Uh-oh, wrong house. No, the right house. I didn't get that! We want to talk to Marilyn Hacks. I'm from Canada. I'm from Canada water. You'll never guess what happened. She disappeared.

Bernadette. Jumped out a window. There's one answer to all of your problems. Get your ass back to work. A huge project has come up. It will require me to go to Antarctica. It's twice the challenge anyone ever imagines with long stretches without sleep and exercise.

Sounds like I've been in training for this for the last 20 years. Hello and welcome to the This Had Oscar Buzz podcast, the only podcast making a vision board about Angeline and Joe Lee. Every week on This Had Oscar Buzz, we'll be talking about a different movie that once upon a time had Lofty Academy Award aspirations, but for some reason or another, it all went wrong. The Oscar hopes died, and we are here to perform the autopsy. I'm your host, Joe Reed. I'm here, as always, with my mudslide-preventing Blackberry Bramble Chris Fial. Hello, Chris. I am nothing, if not supportive, and sweet.

Very good. Supportive, sweet, and subject to the whim of Kristen Whig, apparently. You know. To follow the metaphor. Maybe at least my viewing habits. Perhaps, yes. Where did you go, Bernadette? That's my Goldie Hawn presenting this as a Best Picture nominee.

Where did you go, Bernadette? Uh, my, uh, option is I should have come with a whole, like, list of things that I, uh, tortured you with the other day. Where'd you go? Benadetta. Ever since that, uh, Tyra Banks interviewing Beyonce, uh, clip resurfaced this most recent time, I have been obsessed with just taking every possible celebrity interaction and turning it into a Tyra-style interview where she's just like Kate slank it. What do you cuddle up under when you watch movies at night? Listen, when O-Town said when it comes to the test, Tyra's the best, the test they were talking about was testing Beyonce's nerves. Yes. There is never been a more

I wish I was dead look on somebody's face. Just like, I wish I was. I was. anywhere but here. Just absolutely anywhere. Teleport me to the nearest whatever. This may make me sound pop-culturally ignorant. But where is Tyra? Where did you go Tyra Banks? Let's have that conversation. No, she was just hosting something. Is it Dancing with the Stars? I think she's hosting now? Really? Yes. I believe that was like the most recent season. I don't know whether she's following. following it in its move to Peacock, but I believe that's what she was doing. She was hosting dancing with the stars. I mean, there could be worse, dumb programming, I will say.

Dancing is ultimately harmless, so I will take that over, I don't know. I can't with all these dating shows. I really can't. I can't with the Love Island. I want to be a Love Island person. I really want to be a Love Island. I can't do it. There's no.

It's so consuming. I need a little bit of strategy. I need a little bit of gamification. We're getting so far afield. This has a little bit of gamification. But one of the things that I was slightly devastated slash relieved by in the HBO Max-ness that's going on, who knows what it could be like now? We're recording this a month and a half in advance.

This is true. Yeah, who knows what? the devastation will be in a month. But that they cancel doing any more 12 dates of Christmas? Oh, wait, which one was 12 dates of Christmas? You reviewed that for Prime Timer, right? I didn't, but if it still was going to go on, I would happily write about it for anyone.

It is maybe the worst television I have ever feverishly, hungrily subjected myself to. It is a bunch of very Not all that smart people Oh, it's a reality show Oh, it's a reality show themed around Christmas So it's also, it's the reality trash I love

It's the Christmas that I love It's the holly jolly And it's basically like You got the holly and the jolly You've got them both Listen, it's a bisexual dating show you got holly and jolly in there there's always like a gay or bisexual person in there it creates a lot of drama of like figuring it out and then it's always set to some like when they send someone home you get presents instead of like roses like for bachelor whatever i will say always ends with you like going home for christmas even though it's like we filmed this in august and oh no and they have a to go meet their families. In the first season, the gay guy didn't choose anybody because he

needed to work on himself or something. So all of the guys that he dated went home to meet his family to be like, we're going to help you get in touch with your family. See, turn that into a low-stakes rom-com and I'm fine. Like, turn that into, you know, a 90-minute light comedy with you know some character actors in it and I am fine yes um I will say

you would not be caught dead on a reality dating show Cape Blanchet or Bernadette Bernadette whatever Bernadette Fox I feel like Bernadette Fox would watch some bad TV but it wouldn't she doesn't really have a TV I don't think

no if she ever watched reality TV it would only sort of further confirm her bad ideas about the human condition right like she would only sort of like plunge her further down into her misanthropy which it's probably counterproductive not necessarily incorrect but let's say counterproductive to what she needs to be doing where did you go bernadette this is based on a novel from the early teens and you read it and you loved it a lot of people seem to really love the novel and were anticipating the movie, but I also saw a lot of, I can't believe they tried to adapt

this. This was always going to be too challenging to adapt. You see this all the time with book-to-movie transitions that don't work, and they were just like, well, it was inadaptable. You couldn't do it. So much of the novel is the way that the story unfolds. You're reading people's emails. You're like, you're getting Bernadette's messages to her personal shopper. And like, that's how you learn

of this story. You are having actual like news articles about the stuff that Bernadette did, etc. So like, the version that would be very true to the novel in that like the story

exists in cyberspace basically. Sure. could have been very, very annoying. However, the structure of the book is not as straightforward as the movie, you know, the way that information actually comes to you, the interiority of Bernadette, and like what she's actually experiencing. You don't get it from beginning, middle end, the way that this movie streamlines the action as it happens. It does. Although when we're on the other side of the plot description, I want to talk about how I feel like it could have actually gone further in that direction and improved itself as far as I'm concerned. But I want to wait till we're on the other side. But I think just in general, Richard Linkletter was asked why he changed the structure of it so much. Because the structure, if they would have adapted it more faithfully to the structure of the novel, you would necessarily... decentralize your Cape Blanchet performance, your performance of whoever is playing Bernadette,

at least a little bit. And his answer to that was like, well, you don't cast Cape Blanchet and then have her not be in the movie very much. But I think much in the way that Bernadette is more interesting in the book because we don't always get it directly from her perspective, so we kind of have this realization about her, makes her a more interesting character on the page.

it would have made this performance more interesting to have it received in that way. They kind of, maybe not necessarily lucked into, but like, who knows when you're casting child actors, they were fortunate to get a pretty winning young girl to play the daughter in this. Yeah, I think she's really good. And I think she could have probably stood to shoulder even more of the narrative than she did. And, you know, I understand the trepidation of being like, well, this, this needs to be a Cape Blanchett movie. This can't be a movie that belongs to the kid because we're taking too many

chances in that way. But seeing her performance, I think they probably could have, at least a little bit more than they do. Yeah. Well, and it's not just the daughter that's a more prominent character. Sue Lynn is basically a main character in the book because a lot of, like, people's perceptions of Bernadette, et cetera, are filtered through her relationship with Elgi, who they take it out of the movie, but they have an affair in the book. That was, I was reading, I did my due diligence, and by that, I mean, I read the Wikipedia description of the novel. And that was the thing that jumped out to me the most is that in the novel, the husband has an affair with his assistant and she gets pregnant. and that recharacterizes that whole relationship. And essentially, the book doesn't have the same ending that the movie does.

The movie couldn't have that ending if they had stuck with that characterization of the husband. Right, right. And even still, I don't think that shortcut or that change pays off enough. Because are we really that happy that she stuck? with husband. I didn't need her to leave him, but it's not like at the end I'm like so happy that they stayed together. I think some of that, and we'll get maybe further into this later, I think some of that is a casting issue. Casting chemistry. Not for me, though, because I love Billy Crudeup. I know a lot of people think she's like slick and weasily

and whatever, but like, I love him. You put those actors on screen together, do you root for them to be together? Yeah. Not really. Right. Right. I don't know. I give this movie, I mean, like, I do think this is a pleasant movie. I'm somewhat surprised to be reminded how negatively people dislike this movie. And, like, we'll get into the kind of, like, massive delays of this movie and how it might have, you know, shadowed people's perceptions of the movie. Yeah. But I don't think this is as bad.

Oh, no, it's fine. I don't think that this is necessarily a bad movie. It's just not as interesting or as funny as it really could be. I was a little surprised to find that I liked it less this second time watching it. The first time I watched it was after it had dropped on Amazon. I imagine it was either like very late 2019 or early 2020. probably more likely. And in fact, I think it was probably into pandemic when I watched it. And I remember thinking, oh, this is better than people suggested that it was. And I think I

benefited from lowered expectations. But I remember thinking, like, this isn't great, but it's like a good, you know, this is a good movie. And then watching it this time, I found myself a lot more impatient with it, especially in its early going, to sort of get there, to sort of get to where it's going. And once again, when she's in Antarctica, and things are sort of coming together for her character, I do like it. I do appreciate where it ends up at for her. And tonally, where it finally kind of arrives.

But I was sort of frustrated. And knowing about the changes that were made from the book, I feel like I have a lot to say about the way that this was structured and the way that it might have been structured otherwise. Right. But maybe we'll get into that on the other side of the plot description. It's also called Where Do You Go, Bernadette, and because of the way it's structured, she's never actually missing.

No. Not to us in the audience. No, like hardly ever. There's no mystery element anymore. She didn't go anywhere. yeah um yes all right so why don't we get into the plot description now and we should also mention up front by the way this is our sixth cape lanchet movie so we will be doing a six timers quiz for cape lanchet so how many crude ups have we done it's only our i want to say second hold on a second because

i was just making these notes last night um it's like first or second stage beauty still no stage beauty There's a few that we could end up doing. I feel like Judy Greer or Fishburn are the people in this cast that are closest. We've done a few greers. This is actually our first Billy Crude Up, so I definitely want to talk about it because it's our first chance to do so. Yeah, our fourth Judy Greer after Love and Other Drugs, Men, Women, and Children, and Elizabethtown. Our fourth Kristen Whig after Walter Middy. and I want to talk about that

because I remember the early trailers for this movie reminded me of Walter Middy in a way that made me feel like I don't know Kristen Wigg was in that in mother in downsizing and in this it's oddly our third David Pamer

after Get Shorty, bounce, and now where'd you go, Bernadette? Fantastic. And our third Lawrence Fishburn after Bobby and of course who could forget his performance in the mule and our third Steve Zahn after riding in cars with boys

and he's a voice in The Good Dinosaur. Yes. Yes. But it's our 6K Blanchet, so very excited. Six Blanchet, first crude up. First crude up is a fantastic sequel to First Reformed. I can't even tell you. Oh, my God.

Just stunning and powerful. And that Paul Schrader, man, every time he just nails you with it. All right, Chris. Yes. We're going to lead up to the 60-second plot description. First, I'm going to read a little bit about this movie. It's called Where'd You Go Burn a Dead?

It's from 2019. It's one of our more recent movies that we've done. Directed by... Sorry, go ahead. I was going to say I genuinely couldn't place this in time when... Oh, no. It's in that wasteland. It's in that memory bin of...

I thought it was like 2017. 2017 through 2012. 2019 is, like, it really, really is. Like, I hate to keep bringing this up, but, like, from once Trump was elected, actually, no, I will say, no, it's different. After the Moonlight La La Land Oscars, until the part of the pandemic where I was at my parents' house so I can geographically place myself, that is a real mix-em-up time for me, I think. It's just so smushy-wushi Like it's, I don't know

Well, much like this movie We will untangle those knots And just put it in one straight boring line Exactly Where did you go, Bernadette directed by Richard Linkletter Written by Richard Linkletter

Holly Ghent And Vince Palmo Based on the novel By Maria Semple Starring Kate Blanchett Emma Nelson Billy Crudeup

Kristen Whig Lawrence Fishburn Zoe Chow Judy Greer Kate Burton, we're going to talk about Kate Burton. I love Kate Burton at this movie. Troy Ann Belisario, James Urbaniac, with cameos from Megan Malalley and Steve Zon, and David Pamer, premiered on August 16th, 2019, a Leo just like me. I don't believe in astrology, it's fine.

Chris, I'm going to put 60 seconds on the clock for you. Are you ready to give the plot for where did you go burn it out? more like how quickly did you go Bernadette yes all right and we begin all right we meet Bernadette Fox she is a former architect and she's also a recluse

through flashbacks and YouTube videos about her career as an architect we learned that she had this massive project that was essentially demolished after she finished it and throughout her life she's also faced several miscarriages so she's kind of an eccentric anxious person who hasn't really dealt with

any of her issues Meanwhile, her teenage daughter wants to go to Antarctica. They promise her that they will do that for good grades. However, Bernadette has been battling with her neighbor. 30 seconds. Her neighbor, Audrey, over various petty things. Bernadette suggests that they were, or Bernadette agrees to remove this blackberry bush on the hill, and then it crashes down and ruins Audrey's house.

Meanwhile, they stage an intervention against Bernadette because of this, and Bernad escapes, and she goes to Antarctica herself. and then they chase after her and they find her and Bernadette gets a new job making a new station in Antarctica. Literally one minute

on the dot. That was incredible. Very good. Yeah. There's so much buildup to Bernadette getting to the point where one would logically ask, where do you go, Bernadette?

It's like an hour into the movie. it's so long into the movie and this is not quite a two-hour movie so it's here's the thing so the novel as I understand it again I read the Wikipedia article I know some things I read the novel um I it what it's it's the daughter basically essentially Bernadette goes missing very early on and the daughter then sort of goes through this box of correspondence, right, from her mom. She goes through letters. She goes through, like, online articles about her mom, from what I understand,

and sort of just, like, basically, like, learns all about what her mom has been doing and has been her life, right? And if I'm remembering correctly of the book, like, reading through, like, Sue Lynn's emails in a way that suggests there's a hacking going on, which is just, like a fun bit of business about the daughter. And it also just like totally recontextualizes how you're getting this information. Well, totally. And then it becomes about a daughter sort of finding out about the more complete person that her mother is.

Which is a story that gets told a lot, right? That's your How to Make an American Quilt. I love that that was my very first example of that. But you know what I mean. And the pieces don't really come together entirely until they find her. So it's like there's a mystery element to it. There's an adventure. But it's like all along there's this comedic element where it's like you're getting personal correspondence.

So these people interact in ways that like they wouldn't towards each other. So you hear thing, you hear the like nastier side of what? Bernadette thinks of Audrey. You hear a lot about what Sue Lynn thinks of Bernadette, even though she hasn't, like, met her. And, like, that in and of itself is very funny. Yeah. Like, the way that you see these characters, like, in their own head

and not, you know, filtered through this nice version. Well, and you get a little bit. of this sort of this hunt that the daughter embarks on in the movie a little bit because it kicks off with this sort of fan of Bernadette's, this architecture student essentially, sees her at the library and sort of bugs her in a way that sort of mortifies Bernadette, right? You know, you're an idol of mine, I can't believe I ran into you, yet yet. And she makes mention of a YouTube.

video or something. Like I watched this sort of YouTube video about your life and Bernadette then intrigued enough by it, but also sort of horrified, goes and watches this. And so we get a little bit of Bernadette's history from that. Her, you know, MacArthur Genius Grant, and she gets the 20-mile house, which is she's building in one, her most famous creation as an architect was this house where she was building it with only materials found within a 20-mile radius of the house of where she was building it. And it was going to be, she got the MacArthur Genius Grant and she was this was going to be her sort of crowning glory. And she was so vexed by this trashy reality TV producer, millionaire moving in and buying the lot next door to her that it got to her. And she

stalled out on the project, and she decided to basically throw in the towel and sell the building, and ended up accidentally selling it to the reality producer shithead, who tears it down. And this we are told is what broke Bernadette, essentially. That she moves to Seattle, the entire city of Seattle sort of disillusions her. She retreats into this house on her.

Hill and her daughter who she loves and sort of fiercely this like mansion that's falling apart by the way like that's right that you know they're doing really nothing to restore right but so I feel like to round about to my point finally is even though the movie takes this sort of twisty epistolary patchwork narrative and straightens it out into a line I think it's more, I think if you're going to do that, take us back further, start us out with, we need to see Bernadette get disillusioned, not in flashback, not in a YouTube video, but like we need to see that moment and sort of agonized through that with her because it explains so much. And even if you don't show that to us until later on into the movie and show it in a flashback, show it to us in a narrative sense because it is. It unlocks so much of her personality in this, and it shows it then becomes this movie about what happens when all you want to do in the world is put your creativity to the use of something beautiful and functional and helpful and something that will actually contribute something wonderful into the world. and it gets pissed on by this guy with no taste and no...

By Ryan Murphy. I mean, it's sort of like by Ryan Seacrest, actually, right? Where it's this sort of like reality TV mogul. Seacrest out. And it just, again, it just breaks her. And I think that's such a strong theme that doesn't get presented strongly enough in the film. I definitely think you need more of the type of thing you're describing if it's going to completely center Bernadette in the way that this movie does

because it really kind of muddle it it's more like it's telling you what her emotional journey is and what her emotional stakes are than actually revealing them you know like it feels like the movie's constantly telling you what it is. I don't know that. Like, I just almost feel like Linklater is not the right tonal person for this, like, for the book as it is. Like, I think it begs for more of like, he's not, what are your, it begs for more like a Diablo Cody, someone who is going to make something funny out of someone who is antisocial. Where are you on Link Letter?

What are your favorite link letters and your less favorite link letters? Is this going to be like a Twitter prompt? What's your favorite Richard Linklater movie? can't say a before movie? No, oh, like, yeah. Yes, kind of, yes. I mean, we've talked about him before with me and Orson Wells

in how he kind of has these incongruous movies in his filmography that it doesn't really seem like he's a fit for and there's a few of them and they don't, like you can't kind of figure out what the through line is.

He's a tough one to narrativize his filmography. I mean, I think the best ones, and even some of the failures, like Last Flag Flying, you can totally see why he would be drawn to that material, why he would want to tell that story. But this isn't one of those. He's somebody, it's interesting. I almost want to, like, sit down and maybe, like, do it as a project and, like, pick out what are the common threads. And some of them are more work for hire than other.

are not necessarily work for hire, but movies that let the screenwriter, when he's not the screenwriter, like School of Rock sort of presents as a different type of movie. And I don't mean that as, like, I love School of Rock. I think, I love School of Rock. I don't think, I think Link Letter is hard to encapsulate in a way because it's not like, oh, all the movies he writes are good and the ones he doesn't write are bad or the other way around. It's not like all of his commercial movies are bad and his artsy movies are good or the other way around. It's a patchwork of stuff. His one rotoscope movie, I think, is great, waking life.

His other rotoscope movie, Scanner Darkly, I think is only average. The before movies are great, but you want to give the authorial voice to the three of them together, rather than just him. And, you know, sometimes when it feels like he's going for something awardsy, It feels uninspired, like Last Flag Flying, but sometimes it's great, like, Boyhood. I loved Boyhood, and even Boyhood, you can... I mean, Boyhood was turned into something awards-y. That was always just, like, his own little risky pet project that happened to turn out.

That's fair. That's fair. I don't know so much about Merrily, we roll along. Well, I mean, there's so much that's up in the air about that project. He's going to be really old when it's done, is the problem. That felt like an act of defiance against time. Like, I will not. Which, like, God bless him, and I hope he does.

But I would, I mean, there's also, like, there's a lot that's just not fitting in this movie. And I think some of it even goes to, like, you think of who a link later performer is. And you don't think. of Kate Blanchett ever. Like, I don't really know if that's, at least not for this material, a pairing that makes sense to me.

Even when he has in the past cast big stars, like the most, the most akin to Kate Blanchett in Where Do Go, Bernadette, in his entire filmography, is probably Jack Black in School of Rock, the only other time that he's directed a movie and essentially handed it to the star of it in this way. where otherwise, even when he works with McConaughey, McConaughey sort of grooves with the whole sort of vibe of what Link Letter is doing. Even something like Last Flag Flying to its detriment, I think.

Everybody in that from Correll, well, Cranston's doing his own dumb thing, but like Correll is like so low-key to the point of being not particularly useful. you get his sort of frequent collaborators like Ethan Hawke who like Ethan Hawk maybe one of the like top five will go for whatever vibe you are going for director like a direct a director's actor if there ever really was one right and so I think I really can only think of Jack Black and School of Rock on that level of casting Kate Blanchett and Bernadette and sometimes that works as well as well. with, and I don't think Blanchett is, I don't think Blanchett is bad in this, but I think. No, I think she's good. I mean, when is Kate Blanchett been bad? But she's maybe too much for this.

She also, I mean, it's just like, it's not a, link later's not a fit to the material. I don't think she's fully a fit to, um, link later. I feel like a version of the movie that's not going for the, like, not naturalistic, but like earnest, straightforward type of approach that I think Linklitter is doing with this isn't the version of Bernadette that I want to see Kate Blanchett do. I want to see her allowed to be more eccentric because I think ultimately the movie has a hard time juggling.

Well, she's not eccentric. She's just went through a lot of hard times and hasn't been able to really cope with it. and also allowing her to also be eccentric in a fun way. Yeah. And I don't think the movie allows her to be that. And I would like to see the... The person who I honestly think,

maybe this would have worked and they are right for the role, but it would bring both the Linklater energy and an energy that's authentic to who Bernadette is, is Julie Delpy. Oh, that's interesting. I mean, not to say the cheap thing, but, like, Julie Delpy can have those same type of lines, can have the cuddliness, can have the misanthropy that she has, and also can provide what I think Linklater is going for. The one that I thought of, picking from within Link Letters sort of ranks, and I don't think

she'd ever get the role because she's not a big enough movie star. But I thought of Parker Posey as somebody who he's worked with before on Days to Confused, she brings a very strong comedic energy. And I don't know if she's ever been able to play that kind of comedic yet also sympathetic lead in something before. And I would have been at least excited to see what she did with that. I mean, she can do sadness, too. I mean, it, like, shows through the cracks of Christopher Guest movies that she, like, some of her acting choice is. And the other one I thought of, even though I don't know if I necessarily think she would have been great in it, but Patricia Arquette as a sort of boyhood follow-up. I'm not sure about that one.

I mean, I would maybe also think, like, a Melanie Linsky. Oh, yeah. And, like, this is not just Blanchette, too, because I love her. We're going to talk about her. this is this episode is dropping right before tar is released right we're recording it before tar has been seen i still feel like i'm pronouncing it wrong when i say tar that accent is truly fucking with my head that accent mark on the a i'm like should i be tar you know what i mean like what should i be doing what should how how extra should i be going on that a i don't know

I'll go extra on that air is what I as is your want I think I just misuse that phrase The thing that threw me Because we are recording this the week That the full trailer came out The thing that threw me The narration in the trailer

She doesn't have an accent She's giving like stern American Yeah So where what's our lineage i thought the movie was like set in germany Todd field's just going to keep fucking with you and fucking with you until you see the movie and then you'll understand it i guess i'm telling you we're going to see this movie and it's going to be like by the way this is set in Germany comma venus of space

like Todd is going to do whatever he wants and we're going to be it's not based on anything right no this is an original screenplay his first time doing something original. I say that, like, he's done so many films all adapted. But, I mean, even the projects that have come up in the many, many years between

his films, it's always adaptations that have come forth. So that's, that is something that's very interesting, and the little that is out there about this movie, he said that he would have abandoned this project if she had said no. I'm very excited.

I've been, I mean, I mean, like, I didn't believe it was real until I saw that first teaser trailer because fool me once, fool me twice. You'll probably fool me for another 15 years, Todd Field, about saying you have a project. But when I saw that teaser and we got sweaty Kate Blanchett. Sure. It was like, it's real. It's real, it's going to be major because when Kate Blanchett is allowed to be sweaty on

screen or, like, her hair isn't fully dry yet. Right. Shit goes down. Not to put the cart before the horse, and we're going to have plenty of opportunity to talk about this, I think, in the months ahead. But just as a general table-setter, do you feel like Cape Blanchett is in a position to win a third Oscar at this stage of her career? I mean, it would... It's been almost a decade since her last one. I mean, I would say never doubt her at this point, the type of reverence that this movie is clearly going to give her.

I don't think there's going to be a lot of people that are going to be her competition that are going to receive something like, or going to be in a project like that. That is so clearly worshipping and designed for them. Yeah. I know all of these things are situational, and I'm probably over narrativeizing things, but I tend to have sort of a grand theory about third Oscars, which is that you really have to have a certain stature for it to be a possibility, that you can win a second Oscar, if the circumstance, are right. That third Oscar, there is going to be some sort of institutional barrier that you are going to have to surpass with your standing as an actor, right? I don't think Hillary Swank can ever win a third acting Oscar unless she comes out with a performance that's like so insanely better than anything she's ever done before

that she'll be able to jump that, you know, jump that divide. I think somebody like Sally Field is probably in the same boat. Whereas Merrill, and look how long it took Merrill, but like Francis McDormid, Daniel Day Lewis, are sort of in this tier of whether, and like, irregardless, irregardless is not a word, regardless. of people's individual feelings about it. There is a collective agreement that like Meryl Streep, Daniel Day Lewis, Catherine Hepburn, Jack Nicholson, Francis McDormand.

These people are cream of the crop, top of the list, New York, New York, like absolutely the tits when it comes to acting. But Blanchett's on that level. That's what I was leading up to. All these examples. Yes. I think she is. Well, I think it's almost better that we're having this conversation before we've seen this movie or before we're like unpacking the reception of the movie.

Yeah. Because it's totally, it's totally its own thing regardless of what the performance will be. My feeling is, yes, she's of course at that as the same level of them. I wouldn't even question that. Yeah. But all these examples that you've given, though, of third Oscars, so many of them are circumstantial, like, obviously, Merrill being the one that we're like, that's a terrible performance and a shame that it will be her last Oscar.

But the middle thing was a culmination of a decade of her having a resurgence. Yes, and being in second place a lot. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, and, like, I hate to say it, but, like, she was finally in the Weinstein campaign machine. Well, and playing a real person, I always feel like if Devil Wears Prada had happened a few years later, she probably would have won for Devil Where's Prada. I agree. But playing a real person under the name of the real person, who is such a historical figure, I think that was so key to her winning for Iron Lady. If you also, I mean, I think maybe the outlier to what I'm going to say is Daniel Day Lewis.

But, like, if you get kind of granular with a lot of these third Oscars, there are, you know, circumstances. And you have to, like, kind of look at the race, too. Like, Merrill was actually in probably a three-way race for a lot of that season. Sure. Like, I think all Oscars are ultimately circumstantial. I just feel like with a third acting Oscar, there is a strata that needs to be met before it's even possible. Well, and like Daniel Day Lewis goes into the real person thing, not just like playing a real person, but playing Abraham Lincoln, Francis McDormons, like, that was the pandemic. Yeah.

I just feel like there's some sort of internal gatekeeping that might not even be conscious among voters, where it's like Christoph Waltz isn't going to win a third Oscar. Hillary Swank's not going to win a third Oscar. Like even, I think Jody Foster wins her third if Nell doesn't come quite so quickly. on the heels of the other ones. But then again, Francis McDormons... And if it was a better reviewed movie. Yes. Yes.

I think Francis McDormons bucks that trend because it was the best picture of the year. And she was so instrumental in getting it made. And also, it's a pandemic year. So, like, shit was weird all over. I mean, I do think you're right that there is a barrier to entry to a third Oscar. Yeah. In that, like, you really have to prove something. But I don't think that widely, people know what that is.

It's like this nebulous. No, it's totally nebulous. But I think nebulous as it may be, I think Blanchett is on the good side of that. And I think... Yes. I think what the limitation might be, like I was saying, if you look granular at things, if there is... If it ends up that, like, tar is a beloved movie and Kate Blanchett is the...

Where, like, all that energy gets funneled. I think it's like it was for Lincoln with Daniel DeLewis. I think that makes it very possible. I think if it's like the spreading the love that the Academy does lately benefit someone else,

then I think she probably is easy to be like, well, this isn't her third Oscar. I think if the movie's too fucking weird, I think they're not going to give it to her. They don't really... I mean, like, Blue Jasmine is huge, but like she has some weirder, thornier Oscar nominations, like, I'm not there, that, like, they were never probably

going to give it to her, because it's too weird. Oh, I bet she was second place for I'm not there. I'd love to see the town. To Ruby D. Yes. Interesting. That's a, that's a category I'd love to see how it shook out, voting-wise, how close it was. So she did last. I could see Amy Ryan being last also. She won all those critics awards, but that was not, she was not a name for the Oscars. for Oscar voters at that point And I think it was a best picture nominee too that wasn't really going to win

And I think some people The novelty of a kid nominee appeals to some people Some pocket of people Wow, we've really gone to field So let's bring it back No, but we're talking about Blanchet We're talking about Blanchet

And so we mentioned before This is our sixth time With a Cape Blanchet movie As we do whenever we reach The sixth time Except for Julia Roberts Who We've forgotten We're going to get it next time

we talk about her. We do a little quiz. I create a little quiz about the six movies that we have done for this particular actor, and I quiz Chris, and it's very fun, and we'll see how it goes. So, as a reminder, and I don't know if Chris

you want to write these down, because the answers to all of these will be one of these six movies. We started episode 37 of our podcast. We did the gift from the year 2000. Episode 44, as part of our 2003 miniseries. We did The Missing. Then we did Truth, episode 57. The shipping news,

the long-awaited shipping news. Where she plays, mention the name. Oh, Petal. Petal Coil. Petal Coil. Right, her married name, Petal Coil. That was our episode 150. The Life Aquatic with Steve Zsou was episode 167, and then here we are with Where'd You Go, Burning Bernadette's interesting decision that it's where'd you go and not where did you go, Bernadette. I wonder what, like, what? Yeah, no, nobody in this is Midwestern. No, no, they're not, not spiritually nor geographically. So, interesting, yes.

There's a lot. I mean, Kristen Wiggs' wig is spiritually Midwestern. Kristen's wig. Yes. All right, Chris, I'm going to start the quick. All right, of those six films that feature Cape Blanchett, which one is the longest? The missing. The missing at 137 minutes.

Which one is the shortest? The gift? Not the gift. Truth. Not truth. Why did I think truth was like 95 minutes? Is it Life Aquatic? It's not Life Aquatic.

I thought that was like two hours. Jesus. It's got to be Bernadette then. It's Bernadette. at 109. Here's the interesting thing about these six movies. They're close on a lot of these metrics. Like, there is not a lot of separation between this.

So, yeah, 109 minutes. Where'd you go, Bernadette? Leave it to Blanchet to make me work for it. Yes. Highest domestic box office total. Oh, that's hard, actually. Yes, it is. Is it the missing?

It's the missing at a whopping 27 million. domestic. These are not big moneymakers that we have chosen. Lowest box office total. Shipping news. You'd think, but no. Oh, okay. Now it's where did you go, Bernadette? It's not. Okay. Well, Bernadette made like $9 million. Is it the gift? It's not the gift. It's truth. Truth at $2.5 million. That's surprising. Shipping news was like a 11 million. The gift was 12 million. So again, they're all right around very similar levels.

The idea of the shipping news making 11 million. I'm sure at the time we were like, wow, it only made 11 million dollars. Oh, yeah. Bomb City back then. The idea of that movie making 11 million dollars now is. It's a miracle. It's a miracle. Whoco bananas. Which one was the highest score on Rotten Tomatoes? Truth. Truth. Truth. It's 63%. Again, nothing's super. Nothing super. Nothing super. Right. Which was the lowest? Um, shipping news. No. Life aquatic?

No. Where'd you go Bernadette? Where'd you go Bernadette? At 50. 50%. The gift... Oh, my God. A range of like 13. The gift is 57%. The missing is 58%. Shipping news is 55%. Life aquatic is 56%.

Like it's... Oh, $2.000. nice to the shipping news. It's all, oh yeah, very too nice to the shipping news. It's all right there in this cluster, totally. All right, which two movies on this list were distributed by studios with classics in their name? Well, that's Sony classics and Paramount Classics. It's the gift and truth. Yes, very good. The gift was Paramount Classics. Truth was Sony Classics. All right, which was the only one with cinematography by a woman? Is it truth?

Truth. Mandy Walker. All right. Which two movies had scores by Christopher Young? Christopher Young, I'm pretty sure, does the shipping news. Yes. And The Missing? Nope.

The Gift. The Gift. Yes. Who was the missing? The missing was James Horner. Oh. Yeah. All right.

Which is the only one to have been nominated for an independent Spirit Award. The gift. Yes. Do you remember for who? Giovanni Rebisi. Who is terrible. Yes, he is.

Which was the only one to have been released earlier than the month of October? Where'd you go, Bernadette? Yes, August. Which one was released on Christmas Day exactly? The missing. No. The shipping news? No.

Okay, fuck. Life aquatic? Life aquatic. The missing was November 26th. The shipping news was December 18th. So you were definitely close on both of those. Christmas Day, exactly. Which is the only one of these to have neither been written nor directed by an Oscar nominee?

Neither written nor directed by an Oscar nominee. The gift is Billy Bob Thornton. That's out. Missings were on Howard. That's out. The gift we should clarify was co-written by Billy Bob Thornton, even though it was directed by Sam Ramey. Right.

Is it truth, which is written by James Vanderbilt and directed by James Vanderbilt? Yes, exactly. Exactly right. James Vanderbilt somehow not an Oscar nominee for the screenplay for Zodiac. Boo. All right, which is the only one of these films wherein Blanchett does not co-star with an Oscar winner? No Oscar winners whatsoever. Life Aquatic.

Nope, Angelica Houston. Where'd you go Bernadette? Where'd you go Bernadette? Yes. All right. So only counting acting nominees, or sorry, only counting acting Oscar winners. How many Oscar winners for acting are in these six movies? Total?

Yes. Oh, shit. Okay, I'm glad I wrote these down because I can do a tally. The gift has, um, my apologies to Katie Holmes. It has Hillary Swank. The Missing has Tommy Lee Jones. Truth has Redford, but he did not win for acting. Shipping News has Julianne Moore, Judy Dench, Kevin Spacey.

A lot of other people, but none of them have acting, wins. Life Aquatic has Angelica Houston. Yeah, I kind of gave you that one. Winners. Yes. acting winners Okay, so I have six so far I feel like I'm going to be missing one somewhere

and I'm going to say seven. That is classic pub quiz strategy and you did it exactly right. Tally up all the ones you know and then add one because you're always forgetting one. Who did I forget? J.K. Simmons is in the gift. Easy to forget that fact. So very well strategized, sir.

All right, which two of these movies feature stars of the movie? Thank you. you for smoking? The gift has Gady Holmes. Also, J.K. Simmons is also in Thank you for smoking. And J.K. Simmons. And Aaron Eckhart is in the missing. Yes, good remembrance. Yes. All right. Which two movies feature stars of Lost in Translation? Life Aquatic has Bill Murray.

And, um... Ooh. Oh, Giovanni Rubisi, the gift. Yes. Giurvonni B.C. as essentially Spike Jones. Spike Jones. And Ana Farris as Cameron Diaz. Essentially Cameron Diaz, yes. All right.

Which two movies feature stars of Almost Famous? This is very hard. Where'd you go, Bernadette, Billy Crude up? Yep. And Elizabeth Moss isn't in. No. Almost famous. It's going to be someone far down.

the line and almost famous, I think. Probably in the top 10 of credits, I would say, but close to the bottom of that. Okay. Hmm. I mean, Philip Seymour Hoffman and a Pac-Win. So he does Chanel would be around there. Try and go around the tour bus, maybe. Oh, is it

Who is, who am I? Bijou Phillips. Oh, the Band-Aids didn't go on the, well, no, some of them did, but Bejee never did. Around the tour bus. Jason Lee, Noah Taylor is in Life Aquatic. There you are. Noah Taylor is in the Life Aquatic. This one is also very tough, and we won't linger on it too bad.

but which two movies feature stars from the 2000 movie Hamlet, from the Ethan Hawk, Modern Hamlet. Kyle McLaughlin is in that. Julius Stiles is in that. I maybe don't know anyone else who is in that movie. Okay. Then I'll give this to you. Bill Murray is Polonius in that movie.

He's in Life Aquatic. And Steve Zon is Rosencranes. And he's in, where'd you go, Bernadette? All right. Which film did Rex Reed say was, quote, a movie that engrosses, hypnotizes, and clings to the memory long after the final frame? I said the shipping news.

The shipping news. Rex fucking Reed. What film did Rex Reed say was, quote, the raiest, scariest, most nerve-rattling saddlebags and sagebrush saga since Robert Mulligan's The Stalking Moon. The Missing. It's a gimmie. but I wanted to throw that in there

because that is the stupidest fucking quote I've ever heard the missing for Pete's sake of which film did Richard Roper say Kate Blanchett is unquestionably one of the great actors of our time through the years I can't imagine

I've ever been underwhelmed by any film performance she's ever delivered until now Bernadette where'd you go Bernadette yes and that is the end of our quiz very good very good Chris Do you agree with the erstwhile Eberd and Roper Star?

I agree with none of those critical assessments. I don't think she's disappointing in this movie. No, I think she's good. I like her in this. I think she's kind of deflated because I don't know. I mean, not that Blanchett always needs a director with a strong take. Like, it's a lot of fun when there's a strong take. Like, Richard Ayer showing up on notes on a scandal and being like, what if this was trash?

Like, and, you know, those two queens run with it. Yes. Yes. I think it's, I know it's effective because when we get to the final third of the movie, and she's in Antarctica, and she's on the little kayak with Troy Ann Belisario, and then she's in making her case to Kate Burton for why she needs to be able to stick around, and she's got that life in her again, and she's so clearly inspired by this, and you feel, or at least I do, a thrill on her behalf. Like, clearly she's burrowed her way via that performance into, you know, into my heart enough that I'm so, that I'm invested in her happiness and in her creative spark.

I think the thing you were describing earlier of how the movie needs more of like earlier in her life and career to really emotionally ground it. I think you ultimately get that emotional connection, but it does kick in late when, I think it happens when she runs away, you know, and she has that intervention, which like, that intervention boy like that intervention never feel it feels it's not it's the type of thing that you should feel after you learn more about bernadette to make the movie work because it feels crazy it feels like they are on another planet about this woman yes rather than just having a conversation i also feel like narratively and it's like why is this happening and i i don't put this on crude up because I don't think crude up is being asked to do this. But you need to ask that character to be pushed far farther to the brink than he is.

He needs to, in order for me in the audience to not be incredibly frustrated by that intervention scene, and certainly to not be so turned off by that intervention scene that I stop caring, whether they get back together by the end, you have to convince me that he is at his, wits end, that he is so, that he's not just, because the impression that I get from watching that scene is that he's inconvenienced enough by Bernadette's current state of being, that he has taken the shortcut and gone to Judy Greer and is like, intervene with my wife, which I don't know how you do an intervention on somebody who doesn't have like a substance abuse problem.

I don't know how you do an intervention for somebody just for being like extra. She has some like prescription stuff. Yeah, but that doesn't feel like it's central to the thing. It's essentially just like she's being intervened for being depressed. Yeah. Well, I mean, you could at least buy it a little bit more if he seems further removed from her. Like the way that the movie is presenting it, like they seem like they've maybe, you know, know, they've lost some spark at worst.

Right. But, like, he does seem to pretty much know what's going on with her. I need that scene to be him fighting for her. You know what I mean? Like, him fighting her to fight for her or something, just... To work as the movie's trying to do it. Right. Like, if it was a realization, like, later, that was like, oh, he fucked up.

He didn't really realize what was going on. Then give me that. It feels like he does know what's going on, and he's just kind of being an asshole. Right. I mean, I do ultimately think the, like, the most spark that the movie has, which, like, does come from the book of this idea that you can't really fully know people, even, like, the ones you love, you can't ever really know what's going on in their head. You don't always know what's where they're coming from. And, like, it comes together in this kind of lovely, like, back and forth scene with Judy Greer at talking to, uh, talking to, uh, Billy Crudeup as its intercut

with Blanchet talking to Fishburn and like that, I think, is maybe the best scene in the movie. And like, but the way that that intervention scene is handled, like, kind of goes against that as the big theme of the movie. I just don't know where I, as an audience member,

where are my sympathies supposed to lie in this? And how vehement are my, because I don't understand how I'm supposed to take this as anything but being fully in Bernadette's shoes and being like fuck y'all you know what I mean yeah like when she tells what's the the assistant's name I keep forgetting the assistant's name manjula yeah no no no no no his assistant oh sulyn Zoe chow's character uh to get out of there

I'm like yeah fucking get out of there like what the hell are you doing that you know what I mean? Just like, you have no place in this very personal and intimate. It's especially weird without the affair, too, because, like, with the affair also happening in the book, like, she gets in his head a little bit, and it's not like she's a complete asshole, you know, like, she's coming from it in a way that, like, she's in this relationship with him, and they have kind of a good thing going and Burnett, that's the asshole. And it's like, Meanwhile, James Urbaniak's there out of a completely different movie that's a lot wackier. Not that his performances, but, like, I think just the presence of that character,

I don't understand why, like, he's kicking the door down, and he's, like, there's a comic sensibility that he would fit into perfectly if it existed in this movie. If Link later was making the type of movie he made when he made Bernie. Yeah, kind of. Yeah, yeah, yeah. so yeah i don't know it's frustrating um how did you feel about christin wick in this movie because i think she i remember when she was cast and i was like well she's not right for that part who would you have cast and or what what where would you have pushed that character

directionally i just don't think so she's right for the part like i think she's playing everything that the character is supposed to be but like i don't buy her as this huge humorless, like, bitchy, like, parents association mom. Like,

I just don't buy it. I don't have a problem buying that. I think the fact that we're supposed to have this sort of wholesale change in her demeanor when Bernadette comes to her after she's run away. I don't buy that.

Yeah. And the only kind of impetus for change is Bernadette calling her out. And it's like, it just takes that one person to be like, your kid hates you for her to be like, you know what? You're right. My kid hates me. Right, right. Like, you know, I don't think that Kristen Wigg is someone who, like, is who you cast to play.

It also, that character comes across. She doesn't get to be funny. Well, but that character also is very stereotypical. We've seen that character in 8 billion things, the uptight suburban mom, the PTA, you know, terrorist or whatever, and... And you cast a character actor in that role, and it can be funny, and it can be believable. And I don't think Kristen Wiggs is a character actor. Like... Yeah.

Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. Again, there is a... I don't think this movie knows what kind of comedy it wants to be. Yeah. And I think that's a big, maybe the big problem with it, is ultimately it knows it wants to be a comedy. I don't think it knows how much of a comedy it wants to be and what kind, what flavor.

And when it does decide what it wants to be, it's in that final third when she's in Antarctica. Yeah, that's the best part to me. Because then it's just like heartwarming comedy. I mean, Kate Burton shows up, so. Kate Burton is exactly the kind of character actor. you pull in to sell two scenes worth of a somewhat, that character serves sort of a bureaucratic purpose in the movie. She's essentially a gatekeeper who Blanchett needs to convince to let her in, essentially.

And she's perfectly sort of stern and practical and not cartoony in her opposition to, her. And then when she comes around, it seems very believable. And I don't know. I just love her. Kate Burton, Grey's Anatomy Legend, Alice Gray forever, even though she's, in fact, dead on that show for many years. Yeah. Did you watch the dropout? No. She was tremendous on the dropout. She has, like, one scene where she's just like, oh, God, she's so good. You would have liked the dropout, not to, like, you know, hand you homework or whatever, but, like... That's fine. You can hand me homework.

You brought something up in our outline that really kind of... I knew intrinsically, but then when you go back and you look, it is kind of really surprising. You basically asked the rhetorical question, because I think it is rhetorical, because I'm not really sure there's a firm answer. how close has Billy Crutup gotten to an Oscar nomination? And I don't know how to answer that question. I mean, statistically speaking, if you look at the history, it's got to be Jesus' son because he got an Indy Spirit nomination, but like, that is not close. That is not even the top 10 close.

I think that's the thing. I also wonder, were they pushing any of the other? supporting actors from Spotlight who weren't Mark Ruffalo or maybe Michael Keaton. I mean, there were smart people talking at the time about how good crude up is in a tricky

role in that movie. And I recently rewatch it and I was like, crude up is so good at this really kind of very specific reveal of information and what it says about this guy. Yeah. that I find very impressive.

So I want to go through the career kind of briefly, but, you know, it's our first crewed-up so, and he's one of my faves, even though, again, I always talk about, I do not approve of him leaving Mary Louise Parker while she was pregnant for Claire Daines. That's not the move. I love them both separately. See, that was the thing. I was like, it's got to be stage beauty, right? Because he was Globe nominated for it.

No, he wasn't. Yeah. No, he wasn't. I think he's tremendous that boat. So chronologically, his earliest roles are in sleepers, and everyone says I love you. We've got to do everyone says I love you. I know it's Woody Allen, but we got to do it.

Yeah, but like you talk about the actors in that movie, you really almost have nothing to say about Woody Allen when you watch that movie. Exactly, exactly. We'll be fine. Inventing the Abbots is, we should also maybe find a excuse to do inventing the Abbotts. I don't know if it actually had Oscar Buzz or not, but we'll look into it. Maybe we'll find some time article or something. But, like, Joaquin Phoenix, Billy Crude Up, Jennifer Connolly, just sort of the young, very gorgeous, you know, people of the 90s.

I think Jennifer Connolly looks just so incredible in that movie. And all I can, I don't know, I just remember, all I can think of is Billy Crude Up in like a white button down in that movie. That's sort of the lasting image. only think of anyone in that movie in a white basically, yes. It's like a mid-90s gap ad, the poster. 1998, though, he's in the movie Without Limits. There were two movies about

the American Distance Runner Steve Prefontein that were made around that time. And one of them starred Jared Leto, and one of them starred Billy Crudeup as Steve Prefontein. It was without limits. Donald Sutherland got a Golden Globe nomination for supporting actor.

This would have been, 98. Not entirely sure how close Sutherland got. It's kind of interesting that there wasn't more of a drumbeat for like Donald Sutherland's never been nominated for an Oscar. Maybe we should nominate him if he got as far as a Golden Globe nomination. But anyway, I don't think there was a ton of momentum for Crude Up in that role, although I remember that movie being pretty well regarded. And then 1999, although the movie didn't get released in the States until 2000, is Jesus's son, which is

who directed that? Alison McLean where he plays a drug addict, a heroin addict as I recall. I really, really, really liked this performance. I remember, I haven't seen it since the time, but I remember being very

impressed by it. Samantha Morton's in that movie, Holly Hunter's in that movie. Dennis Johnson adaptation. Yes. It's a very, it's one of those movies where it's like you should be impressed by what this actor is sort of putting himself through for this. It's not like, it's not on the level of like a Requiem for a dream in that way. It's a lot

more, you know, existential and surreal, I think, in a lot of ways. I mean, Requiem's plenty surreal. I shouldn't say that. But anyway, so 2000 is when that movie comes out. That same year, he's in Waking the Dead. The movie, again, with Jennifer. for Connolly. Again, all I know of of that movie, because I've never seen it, is him on the poster in a turtleneck cable net, which, like, perfect. But that's the same year as almost famous, where he gets the role of Russell Hammond that was originally meant for Brad Pitt at one point. You wonder, how is somebody going to step into the shoes of expectation that we were going to have Brad Pitt for this role? And he knocks that one out.

of the park he's so much so you really can't imagine anybody pit or anybody else i can't imagine anybody else i do ultimately think that my answer the question is probably almost famous and it's partly because i think two things if people were talking to supporting actor with that movie in that like wildly huge ensemble in a way that like oscar ensembles aren't that huge you know Philip Seymour Hoffman kind of ate his lunch in that type of discussion. If there was going to be a supporting actor nominee from that movie, it was going to be Philip Seymour Hoffman. I don't think Crude Up was campaigned at all. I would have nominated probably the both of them.

I mean, I would say probably what I think it's pretty conceivable that ultimately Crudup could have gotten that far or could have been close if that movie had performed at the level that it was expected to because at the time about famous that Oscar year was a movie that had bounced back probably as much as it could but like early on they re-released it into theaters because they were like it's such a good movie what is your problem go see this movie and again American audiences were like no thank you yeah and that became so popular after the fact you know what I mean it was a great you know this great cable movie that people would watch and and it's you know incredibly beloved today but You couldn't get people to go see that movie in the theater.

And then we lost Cameron Crow forever. I say that as someone who likes Vanilla Sky. From there, he makes his first of several Bart Freundlich movies, where he and Julian Moore and World Traveler. 2001, he's with Cape Blanchet, the first Blanchet crewed up pairing in the World War II movie, Charlotte Gray, the Jillian Armstrong movie. Do we think that the photo of them together in Bernadette,

when you see younger them is from some type of, maybe, yeah, what red carpet event was there for Charlotte Gray, but... That had to have played a festival, I have to imagine. What does it say? Hold on. Now I'm going to... Now you've got me determined that I'm going to figure it out. If you talk to lead Blanchett Stan, my friend Murta de la Faddle, I think Charlotte Gray is one of the ones.

He's like, no, it's actually good. I believe it. I believe that it's good. It's just, it's... I just forget. Yeah. No, it didn't play festivals. Eggs on my face.

Okay. It did have a Toronto premiere before its New York and L.A. premiere, but it was in December. It was not at the festival. Okay. 2003, he's in Big Fish, which was definitely positioned for Oscars. But the actors that they campaigned for were Albert Finney and Jessica Lange. They were not Billy crude up. They were not Marion Cotillard. And they were not

Ewan McGregor. So he really gets the most lost in that ensemble. That's stage beauty that year. Is Stage Beauty 04? I think Stage Beauty is 04. Richard Eyre, speaking of the man, Richard Eyre, directed that movie. It's such, to me, it's a really underrated movie. And it's... I need to see it. I think he gives a tremendous performance and would have absolutely nominated him for an Oscar this year. But again, this movie could not get arrested, not by the Globes, not by, I don't even think it got like BAFTA or anything. Like, it was on like one little NBR, like secondary list, I think was the only thing that it got recognized for.

So from there, he's in another Bart Freundlich movie. He's in Trust the Man. Um, he's great in Mission Impossible 3. Mission Impossible 3, I think, then kicks you into that next phase of Crudup, where he's playing J. Edgar Hoover in Public Enemies, where he's, you know, a lot of these like, son of a bitch, son of a bitch bureaucrats and thrillers. I can't remember who he plays in The Good Shepherd, but like very, very possible. He's also Dr. Manhattan in Watchman, which I think was probably meant to really launch him

into a next phase of his career and unfortunately that movie did not do go so well did not do for its cast members what they all wanted it to do for them which is unfortunate because that cast is great matthew good is great and patrick wilson is great and crude up is great and the rare studio movie that is unafraid of the male body yeah you get a lot of big doctor manhattan penis in that movie that's a lot of patrick wilson um i've never seen eat love. I don't know who he plays. He's the husband. She divorces. Yeah, okay. That makes sense. That's that again, that's the phase of Billy Creed up's career. By the time you get into the 2010s, that's sort of where you're at. Who does he play in the Julia Roberts movie? The husband

she divorces. That's about right. And then for the early teens, does he do TV at all? Well, he's Tim Geithner and Too Big to Fail. And again, he's great. I love, Too Big to Fail is my one HBO current events movie that I always think is fantastic. It was directed by Curtis Hansen. He plays Tim Geithner, and he's just, I think, tremendous. But he's sort of in the weeds for, from Watchman, honestly, up until Spotlight, really. And Spotlight, again, he comes back and there felt this, there was this palpable, like, you know who's really good?

He had done a lot of stage stuff, by the way, in the interim there. I saw him in Arcadia when that was on Broadway, and he had won a Tony or was nominated for a Tony for the Coast of Utopia? I can't remember. That sounds like a nomination. Probably. I think, was it Jennifer Ely who won for Coast of Utopia? Hold on.

Now I'm going to investigate that. Let's see. Who won for the Coast of Utopia? Well, God, there's also, like, all things. Three of them are listed separately on IBDB. Help me out here, IBDB. Help me help you. Come on, man.

They were done in rep. Give us a break. That would be a great trivia round. Like, omnibus, not omnibus, but plays performed in rep because they were so huge on Broadway. All right. I'm just going to look up the 2007 Tony Awards. I'm going to go right to the horse. Because I don't know shit about what the Coast of Utopia is about.

but, like, I know what the Coast of Utopia is. Is that Tom Stoppard? It's Tom Stopper. Yes, it is. Yeah, there you go. The Coast of Utopia is about, like, pre-Russian Revolution stuff, or at least that's maybe when it starts. It's a nine-hour, three-part, Trevor an undirected thing.

Okay, so, Brianna Foeburn is nominated for lead actor. He loses to Frank Langella for Frost Nixon. Billy Crudeup does win the Tony for featured actor in a play over his co-star Ethan Hawk, and Jennifer Ely does win featured actress in a play over her co-star

Martha Plimpton. Two queens stand before me. Yeah, basically. Yeah. That category is actually, because Dana Ivy was also nominated that year, and Jan Maxwell was also nominated that year. Really, honestly,

this is an interest like this is kind of a stack that was the year that ralusparza lost for company to david high pierce that i still am kind of mad about that was the spring awakening year so um and that was also the year that julie white won her tony award for the little dog laughed 2007 tony july white's tony speech is yes a joy a delight it's fantastic also have i ever talked about i probably have her uh the youtube video of her at one of those like storytelling uh I sent you this. I had to explain this to you. The Meryl Streep story?

Yes. No. No, I sent this to you. No. I guarantee not. Unless it was like before we've ever done this podcast, unless it like predates the podcast, because... Maybe it wasn't you, but I have definitely shown this video to someone.

It's fantastic. And they were like, whoa. She's talking about, I don't know whether the event was for Wendy Wasserstein's charity or whatnot, but she's like, I'm going to tell a Wendy Wasterstein story about when she was... I think it was after Wendy Wasterstein passed. It was definitely after she had passed, but I don't know whether the purpose of this night was a benefit for Wendy Wasterstein's charity or not. But anyway, Julie White tells a story about Wendy Wasterstein, who of course was the playwright

behind the Heidi Chronicles. And so Julie White is in the Heidi Chronicles, and she's backstage after a matinee, a weekend Matt May, and Wendy's in the office, and who comes knocking at the stage door, but Merrill Streep and the kids, Mamie and Grace one imagines or whatever, and she comes in, and Wendy Wasterstein, so, oh my God, it's Merrill. I'm not going to do the Wendy, or the Julie White, Wendy Westerstein impersonation, but it's very funny. She said, oh, I didn't know you were here. And now, I said, you know, I wasn't, but Mamie really needs to use the bathroom.

And it's the way Julie White tells us. Julie White's Merrill, though, people think that Debbie Reynolds' Merrill is savage. Julie White's Merrill is savage in like two seconds or less. I don't think it's intended to be savage even. I just think it's accurate. And then after she leaves, the Wendy Wasserstein quote that Julie gives is, I'm so glad I have a hit play on Broadway so that Merrill and the kids have some place to pee in Midtown. That's the best.

That's so good. How did we get there? Where did we? Oh, Billy Cruz. Okay, so I definitely know that I have shared that with a friend who didn't know it existed. I remembered what I showed to you that you didn't know existed. That Julia Murney's similar, like, New York actors get on a stage for a benefit and tell

a story for two minutes, whatever. Oh, no. No, Julia Murney doing when she had voiceover work with that. the Spice channel. Yes. If you like your bitches with an Asian twist and all the fucking and sucking

you can handle. Welcome to the month of Cocktober. That was also very good. If these both still exist on YouTube, I will put them... The Julie White one definitely is because I go and watch it again

every few weeks. I really hope the Juliet-Murney one is on there because it is too much to put into the episode. We will lose the story. But it's amazing. Back to Billy Crudup, though, because I just wanted this last five to seven years, where it's, he's in spotlight, he's the journalist in Jackie. He is the sort of handy flop house stand-up guy in 20th century women.

Right? What a man. That's a man right there. And then he wins an Emmy for the. morning show playing like network television uh uh shitbag personified uh in the morning show the bummer of it all is is that he's proven that you know the old adage of like some people need to go to tv to get the respect they deserve and you never want that for anybody but it's proven to be he's quietly halfway to an egot though he's obviously i

don't know in what venue we'd ever get him a Grammy Award, but let's work on that, kids. And whose autobiography can he narrate to get his... I hope it's someone sexual, because as we kind of sidestepped by with 20th century women, that incredible performance, that's like not a whole lot on a page, but he makes such a fucking feast out of it and like he's very funny and like just like brings this element to the movie that has to be there and like is very sexy and him dancing with Annette Benning. I want that playing on a loop every day of my life as a mindfulness exercise of some kind. The mini genre of 2016 movie wherein Billy Crudup and Greta Gerwig back up a best actress

best actress worthy lead performance in Jackie and 20th century women is quite the double feach as far as I as far as I'm concerned um yeah so this is so again he's halfway to an egot he's so good I don't see a path at the maybe I see more of a path now than I maybe did 15 years ago actually to him getting an Oscar nomination but it's interesting that it's just never been a path it's never been in the cards for him. The thing is, like, I bring this up with other performers before, that there's people that, like, the first time that they are in the position to get an Oscar nomination, they're, like, it's done, they're winning.

Like, the first time they get nominated, they're going to win. And I don't think Billy Crudeup is that, and it's kind of a bummer. But, like, you can see the path to a nomination, sure. I wonder if he's got anything coming up that's particularly, besides... Dinner and drinks with me. Did he get recast for... this misbegotten the Flash, I think he did. I don't think

I think, yeah, that's not, because he was in the Justice League movie as the Flash's imprisoned dad, but he's not Is he in the Justice League movie, or was he in Zuck Snyder's Justice League? Both. He's careful for bringing that up. He's briefly, he's briefly in the theatrical cut. He's a little

bit more in the director's cut, but he's definitely in the theatrical, just like very, very briefly. Yeah, he's doesn't really have anything upcoming. There's a television series that's in post-production called Hello Tomorrow that he's credited in, but that I have no

idea what that even is. So, okay. But yeah, no movies on the horizon, at least according to IMDB. Let's work on this as a culture. Let's work on... Blanchett has amazing things on the horizon. She

has Almodovar's first English language film supposedly shooting next spring last that I saw. Very exciting for that pair, very excited for that pairing. And she's also

currently shooting a TV show with Alfonso Coran. I'm bummed that Alfonso Quarron is making television and not movies at the moment, but if that's going to be the case, teaming up with Cape Blanchet sounds pretty

good. I agree. She's also a voice in Guillermo del Toro's Pinocchio. What if they made another Pinocchio? What if they made two Pinocchioes right on top of each other is the question we're going to find out this year. She's in the upcoming Eli Roth movie with Kevin Hart and Jamie Lee Curtis. Which is like based on an IP, I don't even know what it is, whatever, fine. But she's worked with Eli Roth before. She like likes Eli Roth.

I buy that. Yeah. Have you seen a house with a clock in its walls or whatever it's called? No. I really liked that movie. No, I didn't. I liked it a lot. Okay.

It's kind of wonderful. All right. And like, the kid felt very queer-coated to me in a way that I, like, enjoyed, but didn't feel like it was being, like, obvious in the way that is annoying and some stuff where it's just like, see, look at this. And it's like, that's nothing. All right. That's cool. I like that movie. She's apparently the narrator.

in that awful-looking Netflix fantasy thing, The School for Good and Evil, with Charlize Theron, with Charlie's thereon with the Johnny Depp Madhatter wig on her head. Have you seen the photos for this with her and Carrie Washington? I do not see it. You say that title and it wisps through one ear and hushes out the other. Understandable.

Understandable. Okay. What else do we want to talk about with regard to? to, where'd you go, Bernadette? Oh, so Blanchet is nominated for the Golden Bowl. Oh, yes, we didn't even get to this yet. Which is like the just outlier wilderness that's the only awards attention this movie got. This was not very well received.

This was a summer movie. This was basically written out of the awards conversation by the end of the summer. And yet, this was probably the ceiling for this movie, ultimately. So how much of a failure is this? know. I feel like if this movie is done very correctly, there's not a path towards

Oscar nominations. But, like, the other thing about this was, and we didn't really even talk about it this much, this episode, this movie was pushed a whole year to the point where it became, like, this punchline of when is this movie coming out. So, when I talked earlier

about how sometimes 2019 feels as remote as any kind of any year you want to talk about this golden globes actress in a musical or comedy lineup is so both set specifically in the like month that it happened and yet also feels like a bazillion years ago so that was when aquafina won for the farewell which i understand i liked the farewell too maybe not as much as everybody else seemed to but like no i like it a lot nobody ever talks about it. It's interesting because, I mean,

like, people really love that movie at the time, and it's a movie that we actually get asked to talk about on this show quite a bit. Do you? I see it. And, like, the last time we did one of the big giant listeners' choice things,

it did well. Okay. I mean, we should at some point. I mean, it's interesting because, like, Aquafina kind of faded away. We haven't had a follow-up from the director yet and like she's another one who's going to TV unfortunately. Aquafina, I don't know necessarily

faded away. She just pivoted away from, she didn't continue on this path. Like the winning the Golden Globe for the farewell didn't push her further down this path. She went to other things. She did the voiceover for Raya and the Last Dragon and she's

in Shang-Chi and she's doing a TV show and all this other stuff. She defeats Cape Blanchet for where'd you go Bernardette. Ana da Armus for Knives Out, who feels like she's had three careers since that performance. Yeah. In both her personal life and her professional life. Deepwater is both off its rocker and yet not as much as I maybe wanted it to be still.

I am fully on board with like, you know, assessing a movie as misunderstood or like intentionally. bizarre, but, like, I don't know what was in that T of this movie. Kind of, like, I can't tell if it is brilliant or if it is genuinely horrible. I was, I'm glad to have movies like that. I'm glad to have movies that are genuine oddities like that, where, where Adrian line is just going to go for it, and I can puzzle over what the hell Ben Affleck is trying to do in this movie and what the hell Anad Armas is doing. I know what Tracy Letts is doing in that movie, which is.

it's madness. It is just madness and it's great. It is hard drugs. Also nominated though that same year, Beanie Feldstein and Booksmart, which again has had three or four different careers since that performance and then the least interesting one, which is Emma Thompson in late night. Which was just like a disappointing movie that much like Bernadette kind of had the narrative already set for it to get that gold gold. Globe nomination. But is there of more we are weeks away from a pandemic

destroying everything lineup of actresses and also performances than that one? It's just so pre-pandemic. I don't know how else to explain it. Pre-pandemic is a whole mood and vibe that we need to

start ascribing to things because I think people will understand exactly what you mean when you say that. Yeah. in a way that like the best picture lineup from this year does not feel pre-pandemic right it's just like pre-pandemic his culture that was like lost over right oh yeah like once upon a time in hollywood little women um uh obviously parisite the irishman right that all feels like part of that oscar year that wrapped up again parasite winning was the last good thing that ever happened but right no but it's

the Anna da Armus moment, the Beanie Feldstein and Booksmart moment, the Aquafina in the farewell moment, does feel much more like that was the, like, not ephemeral necessarily, but like, I don't know, it's tough to explain if those movies, because they were all left out of the Oscars that year, feel a little bit more, if there was not a pandemic, we would have spent the last two years being like justice for Beanie Feldstein and Booksmart, justice for Anna da Armis and Knives Out, justice for Aquafina in the farewell. We would spend all our, a lot of our time that we spent talking about vaccines and PPE and, you know, insurrections and all this other sort of stuff. We would have annoyed the shit out of people being like, you have to see Booksmart

again. You don't understand. It was so good. And I don't know if we'd be doing quite that. No, but you know what I'm talking about, though, right? What would Ana da Armas be doing? Like, every role that she's had since the pandemic have been roles that we've been waiting on for years. Right. It just feels like there was this, there was this hamster wheel that began in culture at that point. And I don't know. Like, nothing turned out the way that it was going to.

We just, we diverted off of the timeline and went in other directions. Where'd Bernadette go? Where'd she go, Bernadette? She went into the upside down, is what she, yeah, yeah, with the rest of culture. All right. She went home. She stayed home. Do we want, just talk a little bit about Annapurna.

This is an Anapurna movie after they had made their deal with United Artists. They released. Anna Perna, like, had a lot of, they had a lot of Oscar success. It's run by Megan Ellison, you know, nepotism, billionaire, baby. A Billion Baby, whatever you want to cutesy, wordify that. They had a lot of success as a production company that would ultimately produce films that would be distributed elsewhere. Like, they produced films by like, gosh, I'm even trying to remember.

Like, they produce things like her, American Hustle, you know. Movies that might not have been made within a studio system, but then get released ultimately by a studio. Killing them softly, American Hustle, Her, Fox Catcher, Detroit. Yes. Detroit, was Detroit released by Annapurna, though? The thing with Anapurna is they became their own distributor without really doing it all that well. And they ultimately, when they're doing their own awards campaigns, you know, Beale Street wins for Regina King.

Should have done better. But ultimately, that is a movie, we all agree, should have done better. And it wasn't campaigned all that well. We had invested a lot of hope into Annapurna, and it maybe moved too far too fast. And as a result, tripped itself up. And is it, like, what is even the current status of it? I think it has basically been somewhat folded into the UA mold, basically. And I can't tell you kind of what that is because the Amazon of it all now, but like, Megan Ellison is back to producing, but I don't think you're going to see that Amazon or that, you'll see the Amazon one.

Yeah. I don't think you'll see the Anna. and a logo on anything. They are apparently one of the... And they also had vice. Yes. And, like, they put all their eggs in the vice chip. And it, like, I guess it paid off.

Yeah. But, you know, plenty of smart people have said, you know, if that movie had another week to sit on people's palette, it wouldn't have gotten those nominations. They are one of the production companies with a hand in She Said. The coming this year, they, I can't imagine they will. be the sort of definitely

like that is being distributed by universal so that is not ultimately like an an Anapurna

movie but it's worth you know mentioning I imagine have you have you have you

been in a movie theater that has the poster for she said up no it's maybe

one of the worst pieces of marketing I've seen in a while it looks like you would

it looks like a you wouldn't steal a DVD poster I don't Is it this thing that I'm

looking at with the silhouette of a... Yes. Yes. It looks like a don't smoke ad or something. It does not look like a poster for a movie about what it's about. I want to be very excited for that movie and I am excited to see it. That trailer gave me

a lot of questions. See, I liked the trailer more than you did, but I know that it did get a little roasted online, mostly for Carrie Mulligan's American accent, which a lot of people think her version of American accent is simply baritone. I didn't mind the accents. That was not my... It felt like...

Remember when the thing with Mad Men was that all of their like next week on Mad Men stuff was purposefully non-specific and vague and were just like non-sequitur after non-sequitur because Matthew Weiner didn't want anybody to know about it?

She said felt like a collection of sentences they wanted to put in the trailer that didn't feel like they were connected in any way that felt like they weren't quite as nonspecific as the madman thing but it felt like just you know what exactly are we looking at here kind of except it's all all stuff that like is like plausible taglines right like the fact that that poster for that movie is like will you go on the record it's just like there's just like that's that trailer was like that line in 20 different permutations

throughout that entire trailer. I don't know. I want it to be good. I want good things for Carrie Mulligan. All I needed in that trailer was the shot of Samantha Morton, and I got it. That's the thing. The cast looks fantastic. Samantha Morton, who else did I, I walked out of there?

Jennifer Ely. Jennifer Ely. Yes, Jennifer Elyly. And I realize, I am happy, even though the other Samantha Morton project, I don't want to even fucking deal with, but I have to. What's that? The whale. Oh, right.

And I realized that she was anti-vax until she got COVID and now isn't anymore. But like I'm... Listen, we're all on our own journey here. We're all on our own journey. It's fine. It's fine. It's fine. All right. Anything else before we head into the IMDB game? No, let's head into the IMDB game. Why don't you talk about the IMD game?

Every episode we end the episode with what we call the IMDB game where we challenge each other with an actor-actress to name the top four titles that IMDB says they are most known for. If any of those titles are television, voice-only performances, or non-acting credits, we'll mention that up front. After two wrong guesses, we'll get the remaining titles release years as a clue, and if that's not enough, it just becomes a free-for-all of hints and a long journey to Antarctica. Would you like to give first or guess first?

Well, first, I would like to note that we got through this whole episode without saying there are no Eskimo in Antarctica. Speaking of Mary Louise Parker, yeah. Speaking of Mary Louise Parker. All right, but Chris, give her guess. Guess. Okay.

So one of my favorite, and certainly most definitional Richard Link Letter movies for me, is dazed and confused, a movie that I saw when I was in high school and imprinted on me in a very important. way. That is a fantastic sprawling cast full of

people who would go on to bigger careers, and some much bigger careers, and some not quite so much. But it's a really interesting cast. One of whom is Mr. Anthony Rapp, who we've never done for IMDB games. So why don't you do the IMDB game

for Anthony Rapp? Is there television? Surprisingly no. Okay, so no Star Trek Discovery. Correct. Rent Rent Adventures and babysitting

Adventures and Babysitting was the one I was trying to I didn't know whether you'd remember that he was in that Of course I'd remember Adventures and Babysitting I knew you'd remember the movie I don't know if you'd remember

One of the few tenets of life Is you don't fuck with the babysitter Days and Confused Yes Three for three Are you going to get a perfect score I don't think so Because this

I'm struggling to come up with anything else I'll do respect to Anthony Rapp. I made wanting to be him my personality as soon as I heard the Rentcast album.

Okay, I know that there's answer. He's got to be like not a bureaucrat, but you know like, oh, I don't think it's sense of a woman, but he plays like a boarding school type

in a movie like that. Is it scent of a woman? It's not scent of a woman. He's not in scent of a woman, but there are a couple movies on his filmography that you are maybe thinking of instead. I won't say whether they are or are not. I feel like

he's with Ethan Hawke in one of them. It's not Dead Poets Society, though. It's not Dead Poet Society. Um, is it something like that? It's something... Is it a beautiful mind? It is a beautiful mind.

A beautiful mind is the fourth one. Your boarding school movie you're thinking of is maybe school ties. But he's also one of the kids in six degrees of separation. Ah, yes. Which is maybe what you're thinking of. Both of those movies made around that same time. But yes, A Beautiful Mind was the one you came oh so close to a perfect score. But well done.

I would imagine it's been years since I've had a perfect score. So that's a real lost opportunity for me. Okay. So for you, we were talking about best actress this year, not a best actress in a comedy win, strategically placed in drama, even though it could have been comedy and, you know, definitely landed that win. We're talking about the best actress winner, Venus and Serena and Bob Dylan. Dolores Huerta. One of the best speeches. Venus and Serena and Selena

Fred Rogers Fred Rogers Renee Zellwicker Did she say Sally Ride also I'm pretty sure she says Sally Ride All right All right Renee

Well Judy I do think is probably one of them Incorrect Nobody's watching that movie, man It's so recent though All right Well My thing is Do I jump into the other Oscar win

And risk the dreaded two strikes right off of the bat Because once I get the years for Renee It's going to go very quickly I'll be able to knock that one out I think pretty well So I I don't want to make sure That there's not something that's like so obvious

Oh Bridget Jones's diary is the thing that Yeah correct We'll put a pin in whether any of the Bridget Jones sequels are also in there. All right. So I got that at least. Bridgett Jones. I am going to guess Cold Mountain.

Correct. All right. Jerry McGuire's tough because that's made her a star, but she's probably at best third build in that movie. Something tells me that she's like farther down the billing than she should be in that movie. Um, but it's such a popular piece of filmmaking. All right.

So other Renee stuff between, oh, Chicago. Chicago. All right. Just watched it last week. It's a fantastic movie. I got lit watching Chicago. It's a fantastic movie. Um, God, it's still, it just doesn't miss.

Yeah. Like, uh, I don't know. It's fucking great. All right, so I've got one to go. You two. You have one more wrong guess before you're going to get the year. All right. It's not going to be like a nurse Betty.

It's not going to be Miss Potter. I don't think it's down with love, even though that movie's gotten much more popular in the last year. I am going to guess Jerry McGuire. It's Jerry McGuire. All right. We got the same exact score. Yeah, look at that.

Not too bad. Look at that. All right. Well done. Good episode on a movie that I didn't think I was going to have a ton to talk about. So thank God for me. All right. That's our episode.

If you want more, This Had Oscar Buzz. Listeners, you can check out the Tumblr at this had oscarbuzz.com. You should also follow our Twitter account at Had underscore Oscar underscore Buzz. Chris, where can the listeners find you and your stuff? Where are you going, Bernad? to find me? You're going to Twitter. You're going to Letterbox. You're looking for Crisphi File. That's F-E-I-L. I am on Twitter and Letterbox. By the time

this episode comes out, I think I'll be in the thick of New York Film Festival stuff. So check me out there if I'm logging some of that sweet, sweet tar action at New York World Festival. Woo-hoo! And she said, by the way, speaking of movies we were talking about, both of those at Joe Reed, read-spelled, R-E-I-D. We would like to thank Kyle Cummings for his fantastic artwork. And Dave Gonzalez and Gavin Mievous for their technical guidance,

please remember to rate, like, and review us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Google Play, Stitcher, wherever else you get podcasts. A five-star review in particular really helps us out with Apple Podcasts visibility. So remember to get those wisdom teeth pulled before you hole up in Antarctica for five weeks and

write us a nice review. That is all for this week. But we hope you'll be back next week for more buzz. Can I make a request? Can the Outro music be, do you remember that like dance song from the 90s that's like Where do you go?

My lovely Where do you go? My lovely Where do you go? I want to know My lovely I want to know Where do you go

Oh I want to know I want to go. No, no, where do you go?