This Had Oscar Buzz - 214 – Mud (with Roxana Hadadi)

Episode Date: October 10, 2022

What’s better than movies like this? Guys being dudes! This week, Vulture television critic Roxana Hadadi joins us to return to the McConaissance with Jeff Nichols’ Mud. Matthew McConaughey stars as the film’s eponymous criminal who befriends a young teenager (played by Ty Sheridan) grappling with the death of his town and his parents’ divorce. The … Continue reading "214 – Mud (with Roxana Hadadi)"

Uh-oh, wrong house. No, the right house. I didn't get that! We want to talk to Marilyn Hacks. I'm from Canada. I'm from Canada water. I'm waiting on my girlfriend. She got these burrs tattoos on her hands here.

Nightgale. Good luck, birds. I just can't spend the rest of my life running away with him. She don't care about nobody with herself. Ain't stuck off in that island? Does it hurt? Ma'am, have you seen this man? No, sir?

Son, have you? What do you do? This river brings a lot of trash down. You gotta know what's worth keeping and what's worth keeping and what's worth letting go. You never said your name. Mud. You can call me mud.

Hello and welcome to the This Had Oscar Buzz podcast, the only podcast that is upheld by an overgrown Blackberry Bush. Every week on This Had Oscar Buzz we'll be talking about a different movie that once upon a time had Lofty Academy Award aspirations, but for some reason or another, it all went wrong. The Oscar hopes died, and we are here to perform the autopsy. I am your host, Chris Fyle,

and I'm here, as always, with my former girlfriend with the bird tattoo on her hand, Joe Reed. I am headed into the Pigley Wiggly. I am picking up some groceries and whatnot. You're going to very mindfully contemplate

a wall full of potato chips. Right. I'm going to ignore the cat calls of the 14-year-old little shits in the parking lot. Flip them a bird with your tattoo hand. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. I intentionally tried to make you

Reese. I knew that would make you happy. Thank you. That does mean a lot to me. You know, you know me very well. I'm excited to talk about Reese in the context of this movie as, well, no, Sarah Paulson also, I think, shows up on this movie in this very, very Boise movie. And not Boise as in Idaho. Boise, but also a very sack cast. We're going to get into it. I'm excited to talk about this movie. It was picked by our special guests today. You know her as the TV critic for Vulture. It's Roxanna Hadati. Yay, welcome. Thank you guys so much. Thanks for coming on.

We're so excited. Very excited to talk about this movie with you. I'm excited to because it's always interesting when a guest picks a movie because of just like, we send out like a list of stuff to you and it's like it could kind of be anything that you come back and you kind of came back somewhat definitively about this movie. Yeah, I think it was like an all-caps, like, we're talking about mud or we're doing nothing. Yeah, I feel like that was very much the case. Mud hits, like, all of my boxes. It's, as my partner calls it, it's a movie about guys being dudes, which is like my number one.

I do feel, I feel like I've gotten that vibe just from like following you on Twitter and like interacting and stuff like that. Like this feels like very wheelhousey for you. Yeah, I love it very much. So I'm very excited to dive in. I love it very much. so sad that it has become this like, I mean, I guess a cult classic is like a good thing and it's a way, but this is like the Jeff Nichols film for me. We'll definitely get into the Jeff Nichols of it all. And I do feel like he's a filmmaker

who has been real quiet for the last good little bit of time. And he does have a few things. His best actor prize at Cannes. Yeah. He does feel like he's kind of ramping up maybe hopefully to get kind of back into things and I'm very much looking forward to that and I think the more that Jeff Nichols is in the sort of current film conversation the more that something like

mud will be referred back to and talked about and I think because it's this was my first time watching it since I had seen it when it was originally out and I remember liking it at the time but going back into it I was a little bit like

I've already seen it I don't think about it too much. Am I going to like it less the second time around? And even in the early going, I was like, right. Like, it's, you know, grimy and dirty and McConaughey and the boys and with that. And like, no, this movie, like, really goes and hits. Thank you. Yeah, I really, I, this confirmed to me that this is a really, really good movie.

And it is probably definitely my favorite of the, of the Jeff Nichols movies. Yeah. I also think to your point of, like, him having gone away. away for a while. I am sort of pleased that he, like, am I remembering correctly that he was going to do a quiet place, but he didn't? Or did he do a quiet place, too? And I blocked it from my memory. No, he was going to do a spin-off movie. And then I think somebody else is doing that now. I think it was a, it was the, like, prequel. A Quiet Place Universe. Things are bleak. Listen, the A Quiet Place Universe does happen in Western New York, close to Buffalo. So, like, I'm

Buffalo Sama, so it gets a pass. That, like, does that. But I also kind of like the Quiet Place movies, but that's not what I wanted for Jeff Nichols. Well, and... I don't know where... I think it was a prequel that it was supposed to be,

and now I think he's passed that off onto somebody else, but is now doing something adjacent to it, whether it's a genre film, or it's like a Quiet Place side quest. I'm not sure. See, I don't think he's doing...

I think he's away from that now. I hope that he shook off the bonds of John Krasinski and was like, let me go my own way. My feeling about it is, is like if he wants to make a quiet place movie, whether it's adjacent, sequel, prequel, whatever, and it goes and makes a shit ton of money, and the movie is fine, and then he can go and do whatever else he wants.

Sure. Like one for me, one for you. Yeah, that whole shabang. I just feel like he's so much more interesting. than that. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and this is, and he's also,

he got caught up in, he was developing an alien nation movie for Fox. And that, and he was like, and that was the big part of the reason why he hadn't made anything for a while after Loving and Midnight Special is because he was working on this like $100 million, his big movie was going to be Alien Nation,

which was going to be very tangentially related, to the television show, but under that name. And then the Fox sale to Disney killed that, killed that project. And I don't think he's ever talked about it, but like just from the way he talked about the Alien Nation movie building up to it, like he gave a lot of interviews while he was making that and developing that. And he seemed to be really investing a lot of himself in it. So I imagine that was a blow.

That was a really big blow. And so now, and that happened, that sale was what, 2018? Yeah, it was like 2018 or 2019. Widows time. Right. Yeah. And so now I feel like he's just sort of like getting back into, he's working on something apparently. I mean, I don't know.

Everybody's, there's a lot of like stray mentions in articles from like a year or two ago, whereas like he's working on a Che Guevara project, maybe with Adam Driver. And he's working on an unspecified sci-fi thing for Paramount. And nothing like this is reflected on his IMDB. So I don't know how far any of this stuff is. There's a movie on his IMDB called The Bike Riders that is about a Midwestern motorcycle club. Okay. That sounds tight.

Austin Butler, Boyd Holbrook, Michael Shannon, of course, film party. I think this is filming. Yeah. I have a movie says pre-production, but if it's filming, that's what he's doing. Because I think there was like a Hollywood reporter or Deadline, some trade had like the cast. It's like rounding out. and Boyd Holbrook's name was mentioned and my body erupted in flames.

It was just like, utterly shocking that Boyd Holbrook has not been in a Jeff Nichols movie. Yeah, like I feel like it's so much sense. It's so interesting to me because like he's the villain in the New Justified, right? And I feel like Justified and Jeff Nichols are like a universe overlap.

I haven't been paying attention to the New Justified. I didn't even realize that that was like happening. Oh, wow. That makes a ton of sense. By the way, the other, the non-Tai Sheridan kid in mud was, I looked up his credits because I was like, where? What happened to him? He was on justified for like several episodes. I was like that, yep, that tracks.

Yeah, he had like a season long arc on justified, but it was the season with Michael Rappaport. So like that season is so bad. I hated that season. So bad. But like he was good and it was just a bummer that he was stuck with like this terrible. I should pitch something on like the. the casting, the cast sort of tendrils of justified and how many people that sort of launched. Because like the Caitlin Deaver thing is the thing I always think about because like all those

people who are like, Caitlin Deaver is one of the people who got launched by Short Term 12. And I was like, yeah, if you didn't watch Justified. Yeah. And if you didn't watch Justified, like, get away from me forever. What a show. Yeah. What a show. Can I backtrack?

Adam Driver. Is this Adam Driver as Che? I don't know about that, but Also, the last mention of that movie, I believe, was in an article in like 20, 20. So that may not be happening anymore. Yeah, two years ago in movie time is like, I don't even know what that's anymore. But this is my thing. This is what I'm saying about Jeff Nichols is he's almost like an urban legend at this point where he's just like, there's all these like, you know, projects and he's he on this thing and he's on that thing and how much of a quiet.

For this biker movie, he could be the next Todd Field for all we know. That's what I'm, like, with this biker movie, I'm like, oh, he's coming back and it's not a TV show. It's a movie. And I'm so, because he was part of that for a while, because when the alienation thing fell through, they were like, well, maybe it'll happen as a TV show. Disney approached him about that. And I'm like, there's already, like, Alfonso Caron went and did a TV show. Barry Jenkins went and did a TV show. And I'm just like, it's great.

And I love them and get your money and do your projects and whatnot. I want them all to be making movies. Steve McQueen, I want them all to be making movies. And it's funny because I read this interview with Nichols in, like, 2018, when he was still developing Alienation as a movie. And he was talking about television, the same thing we all talk about television, 13 episode seasons that feel like they're patted out too much, TV shows that feel like they are all just cliffhangers for the next episode.

And, you know what I mean? And, you know, five-part docu-series that feel like they're. should be three parts. All of this stuff. And so, like, he knows it. And then it was sort of a bummer to be like, oh, but then after your project gets killed, the only place to go is television. And then the next thing, the next quote I read was like, we're thinking about maybe if we do alienation as a TV series, do it as a TV series, but like a movie in 10 parts. And I'm like, Jeff, they got you too. Yeah. It's like very, like, depressing to me because in general, like, I love TV. Hence being like a TV critic, right? Like, me and TV and movies were like always,

like admirable for different reasons and I do feel like yes like now that we have these movie universes like mocking quiet place or whatever but now that we have these movie universes it's like no movie in that system feels fully complete like all that stuff like blah blah blah but I just wanted him to be doing something yes and so to hear that he is coming back with like a movie that sounds like it will be like a fully fledged contained idea like I can respect that. Now, I would still probably watch this idea in a TV

show. Same. I watch a ton of TV. Like, I am not better than TV. I genuinely do prioritize movies more, and I'm not going to whatever. But like, but like this is your movie podcast. Yeah, exactly.

Intended and like told within the storytelling framework of TV or movies and not when it's like one thing trying to capture what the other thing to what is designed to and I think it's frustrating too to feel like

one medium is where these directors have to go because the business of the other medium has failed them like I just feel like that sucks regardless like if directors were being run out of TV and then having to go make movies I would still think that

sucked because it's like ultimately I think that both mediums are lovely and have my full undeserved admiration but it's sort of just like it would be nice if you could make the thing you want to make and not feel like you have to compromise because of right right exactly but yeah so it's great to know that he's like that this movie seems like totally within like his bag of tricks yes with an array of hot men who i will be really excited to watch on screen i'm saying and brings that

brings us right back to mud then doesn't it because uh an array of men in various stages of grimyness, I feel like. Jeff Nichols had the daring, the audacity, the vision to give Matthew McConaughey fake teeth. He really, yeah, he was like, you know what, we're going to do, we're going to do it. Speaking of stages of dress and undress, and I'm only mentioning this now because I'm worried I'm going to forget about it, but this is jumping to the end. The scene towards the end where he's shirtless working on the boat and then neckbone is like, Ellis is in trouble and he gums and runs and he grabs the shirt off of the thing

and the next thing you see it's fully buttoned up and I'm like y'all like what he took the time to button your shirt while you're running for this kid's life see that's the thing we didn't need that cut like I want to watch Matthew McCona sprinting across a sandy beach

toward like a crack full of snakes buttoning up his shirt what's the coordination there I want to see that I want to see that's a stunt that I want to see performance I want to see it well before he gets to the, like, pit of hell, also known as the pit full of snakes, because you say snakes and I'm out. I'm like, perfect time to take a pee break because I live in an irrational fear at any time

that a snake could jump out fully in my house. So, like, I do not watch those scenes. I'm sorry, Chris, could jump out? Yes. Do snakes jump? This is the Brian Fellows School of Animal Logic. I like that in this Zoom call, though, we can see the shelf above Chris's head right now. And if there were a snake to, like, just jump out of there and fall down upon, we'd know about it before you did.

I'm going to spend the rest of this call thinking that a snake could be falling on. No, this, listen, living in New York City and living in apartment buildings, every once in a while, I will land on the thought of like, I don't know what my neighbors are doing. I don't know what my neighbors have in their apartment. That's kind of true. exotic animal and like if a snake gets loose and then into the walls and whatnot you're not going to get it out unless it comes out that's the thing and you hear these stories about people just like well there's a boa constrictor in my very urban apartment and how did that happen because one of my neighbors had it and it got out and it got into the walls and then all of a sudden it's my problem that i have a snake and i can't get rid of it unless you have a neighbor named neckbone i think you're okay but see okay so there are two there are two follow-ups for that one is that this is why Florida is like horrifying right like I have been to Florida I think it's fascinating like I've been to the Everglades they're beautiful like I legitimately have a lot of like I would love to explore

Florida if there were no people feelings right the fact that it's like overrun by Burmese pythons because everybody in the 80s and 90s just let their pythons out and they took over the Everglades is horrifying to me that is like there was one recently where it was like I think was 18 feet and like 300 pounds that they found in the Everglades. And I'm like, absolutely not. Like, this motherfucker could eat an alligator. Like, I could not do that.

When I was in high school, I was on a school trip with the baseball team, even though I didn't play baseball. It's a long story. To Florida. And I kept the book. It was the nerdiest way of going on a baseball trip. I kept the book for the baseball team. I kept the book for softball in the middle school.

There you go. Nice. I totally forgot. I still remember. remember like obviously the numbers for all the positions but other than that um but anyway my uncle was sort of a friend of the coach so he went on the trip too and but he just was like you know pale around doing whatever and so he had gone golfing the one morning and he came back and just one of those and it's these stories you hear all the time i'm just like yeah alligator right there on the

golf course right on the green of as he's trying to put or whatever and i'm like that's very florida Is this where Gator Golf comes from? Like that children's game was invented by someone in Florida. Maybe. They're like, we have to normalize this by making it acceptable to children. Yeah. Like, that's what we have to do. It is sort of appropriate where our conversation is traveling into these circles for mud,

because mud definitely feels like of the, it's not said in Florida, it's set in Arkansas, but in this sort of like, you never quite know. what you're going to find around the leg bend of this nook of the river or whatever and in this case it's a tree house that's filled with bake beans and porn going to find a boat up in a tree

and how did it get there you don't know but you're going to find out because you're a kid and your best friend's name is neckbone so you obviously will be investigating this to the fullest and your name is Ellis like that is also like a very

you know like I feel like that's like I got to see what's happening in these waters. Yeah. Sandy beaches. Great. Excellent details all around. So I guess we don't have to ask you why you chose mud that. Because it feels like we've fully investigated the appeal of the movie, rather, the show.

See? How dare you? Well, and I think something that's like, again, that's like very fascinating to me about this is that it feels so born of a like specific. time and place and experience that I've never looked into, if Nichols has ever given interviews about how this idea came to him or like any of that stuff. But it just feels so specific that I really appreciate that sort of like, I'm going to tell the story about somebody who's made mistakes and what happens when those mistakes catch up to you and draw.

Well, I think you even see that specificity in like the protagonist in his family's life. Like they're just these people that their house. is on this river. Like, they live in a floating house. I have never seen that story before. I've never heard that story before. Yeah. Very specifically American.

And the movie itself says it, like ways of life that are disappearing because the landscape we're in is disappearing. Yeah. So what does that feel like? But, yeah, very much my shit. So we've gone over that part of it. So with first-time guests, though,

we also want to know about your relationship to the Oscars, because we are an Oscars-adjacent podcast. And we tend to sort of talk about it as an origin story, speaking of the films that are terraforming our cinnoplexes. But what is your, how do you come to sort of appreciate the Oscars if you do? I think that probably, well, okay, so we grew up like just watching award shows. I don't necessarily know why we did that. I mean, my parents were into movies, but not really into, like, contemporary present-day movies.

We were very much, like, a classic watching, like, David Lean, watching Audrey, watching Maryland, watching all that stuff. Yes, like, we did a lot of that stuff growing up, and I think we just usually watched TV on Sunday nights because there was either, well, every Sunday we watched 60 Minutes, me and my dad. sure and then if there was football we would watch football and then I feel like if there was an award show the TV just like stayed on um and then I think like probably my first specific experience of being like we have to watch this like my active desire to watch was probably Titanic year yeah always the perfect answer that's a very popular I definitely think it was Titanic year because I remember I mean whatever everyone remember everyone remember It was fucking Titanic. It was everywhere. The last good monoculture.

Yeah. And so I have very specific memories of wanting to watch that. And that was the same year that Elliott Smith performed, right? For Goodell Hunting. I hadn't seen that yet. But I remember his performance and just being very like, this is sad. And it's making me feel stuff. And I don't know how I feel about that quite yet.

Yeah. Sure. You know? So yes, I definitely feel like Titanic was it. And then it basically was just like every year we should watch this. Although, again, we were not really watching the movies that were nominated at the time. Yeah. It became sort of like this guiding like, what are they going to wear?

What's going to get nominated? Sure. Yeah. People are going to say all of that sort of thing. Yeah. And I think that's one thing you sort of maybe we don't think about as much is we assume that an Oscar audience is going. to be drawn in by the movies and the nominees and should we nominate the popular movies because that's how we're going to get people to watch. And there are a lot of people who just sort of

watch the Oscars because it's the Oscars, because it's this big, glitzy event. And this is why I always talk about that the Oscars, in however, we want them to, you know, reform themselves and make sure that they are being as inclusive as possible and make sure they're being as, you know, forward moving as possible. I do feel like there is a, there is an aspect to the fuddy-duddiness of the Oscars that is essential to them because that's what makes them the Oscars. Otherwise, they would just be the MTV movie and TV. You know what they mean?

That's exactly what I feel. And ultimately, I feel like every award show has its own identity. And I don't need the Oscars to be hip. Nope. I don't need that. That's not their thing. That's not what to be a pageant, though. Because I feel like in recent years, they've been stripping the pageantry of them.

And that is part of the problem because then it's just boring. You know, like my general feeling, and you guys know this from like following me on Twitter is like rich people bad, right? Like, I have a very, like, I have, like, a very, like, your wealth is disgusting to me, and I will be rolling out the guillotine. But also, like, that's just what the Oscars are. And so I feel like the Oscars apologizing for being the Oscars and sort of removing that pomp and circumstance. And, like, I don't know. Should we focus on the red carpet? I'm not sure.

Should people not sit at tables together because it's exclusionary? and elitism is your bag. Just accept that that's what it is. And I feel like the problem with so many hosts too, right? And like this is the Ricky Jervais effect. It's like, wow, look at all these rich assholes. Right. Sir, you also are a rich asshole.

Yes, I was going to say, if you are also a rich asshole, I don't want to hear it. Right, exactly. The whole ecosystem is you guys. So like on this one night, I will let that slide. Right. And I want to watch you all just do what. whatever it is you do when you're together. Like that's what people want to say.

Even among their, like, even among their choices, every once in a while you'll see something where like the Oscars Twitter account will post something that is in praise of a movie that never got Oscar nominations. Oh my God. All the time they do that. A comedy or a horror movie or a sci-fi. You mean like when they wished Amy Adams happy birthday and everyone dragged to them? And people will get so mad about that.

You're just like, well, you didn't like it at the time, blah, blah. And I'm like, but that also. is what the Oscars is, which is in the moment they are, their taste is very, uh, you know, stuffy. And, and, and, and then 20 years later, when all of a sudden something has been subsumed into the culture and all of a sudden has a little bit of a snobby appeal, they'll go for it then. And I'm like, that's, that's fine.

That's fine. Well, that's also a marker in a way that like, it doesn't just mark what this group said was the best at the time, but it also being in the position that they're in, it allows for movies that are reassessed later on or appreciated later on to say, why wasn't that an Oscar number

and Oscar winner? And reassessing movies later on is a huge part of film culture that I really like and I don't want to, like, to me it's like it's not worth the dunk on the Oscars Twitter, which like it's easy to do. You know what I mean? It's not hard that dunk on the Oscars Twitter account.

But like, it's not worth it to me when it's just like That reassessment is something that I love about movie culture. That's something that I love about what we all do, which is that, like, oh, I revisited a movie from however long ago. I discovered this movie that I didn't pay attention to 20 years ago or whatever. And I actually think that's a positive. I think that's a good thing. I also think the thing is that, like, the academy, as much as it is, right, like, you stay in the academy, right? Like, you're in there.

It's not like you're in there for, like, a year or, like, you. Your ass is there forever. And so I feel like to your point also, it's like, I sort of like, personally as someone who, like, is reading this work, I love reassessments. Like it's so much just like anniversary pieces, reassessments. Like I love like an eye backward to sort of know where we're going. And then for the academy, it's like the academy changes. It should change. Right.

And like the opinions that it has, yes, they were a snapshot of that moment in time. We have not yet invented time travel. the only reason I want to invent time travel to change the Oscars. Everything else has been absolutely fine in history. Nothing else to change. Yeah. But yeah, it's like whatever. Like, just let the Academy Twitter do whatever it wants. I've definitely dunked on it. Sure. Oh, same. Like, again, it's a real easy temptation. Like, who cares? The other thing. Yeah, absolutely. The other thing about letting the Oscars be the Oscars, though, is it allows for those breakthrough moments to feel impactful. When like Mad Max

Fury Road gets a bejillion Oscar nominations and whatever, that's impactful because it's unlikely, because the Oscars are so stuffy and set in their ways and whatever, it wouldn't have been as remarkable for Mad Max to get nominated from the Critics' Choice because the critics' choice are a pushover when it comes to that kind of thing. Do you know what I mean? And the Oscars are not. Yeah, the Oscars were not going to nominate Sunshine, like my beloved Sunshine, well, right? but then it's wow Chris I know I know listen I've gotten this enough from Joe too so like I've heard it I've heard it I just don't know like what else you're doing like with your time if it's not revisiting one of the hottest ensemble cast in a classic sci-fi though by hot you mean they are shot into the sun so they're literally right but it's both of the things well it's three things yes they're shot into the sun spoiler alert also they're all incredibly attractive and they're all increasingly warm and sweaty so that is true what else do you need and all their careers were like zooming up to the top at that point too so yeah

i don't even remember how we got up to sunshine oh yeah like that's what makes mad max like so impactful like that's what makes it yeah it doesn't happen all the time it doesn't it's it's you can't take it for granted yeah and that is also why uh when anthony hopkins's name was read over chavich bozman's I was like, this makes sense. Depressingly, it 100% makes sense. Because, like, that is where this body was going to vote for. So it's just, like, the Oscars are the Oscars. Yeah, I don't want them to be the VMAs.

I don't want, like, that overlap. I want distinctly different, bougie, elitist identities so I can hate them all for separate, unique reasons. Yep, yep, there we go. Yeah, very good. Let's get into mud then. Let's do it. Let's do it. bot description and then we'll unpack a little bit more of the movie. Listeners, once again,

we are here talking about the motion picture, mud, written and directed by Jeff Nichols, starring Matthew McConaughey. We're going to talk of McConaissance today. Ty Sheridan, Sam Shepard, Ray McKinnon, Sarah Paulson, Jacob Loughlin, Michael Shannon, Joe Don Baker, and Reese Witherspoon, the movie premiered in competition it can and then was not released until the following April. Wow, really? I don't think I realized that there was that much of that gap. Yeah. Wow.

This is why it's always interesting to kind of talk about individual movies within the McConaissance because there is such a real fluid construct of time in terms of where those movies fall. Yes. Yes, that's a very good point. And also just wild that it was a decade ago, right? Like, I remember watching this movie. I cannot believe the past of the time. Jesus Christ, we're ancient.

I was trying to remember what theater I saw it in and I can't. I'm usually pretty good at remembering where geographically I was from a movie. I was placing this movie where I saw it. There was something I watched recently that I was like, I know I saw this in a theater, and I can always remember where I saw something, and I can't remember where it was. This I saw in the shitty mall theater.

Shout out to the shitty mall theater. where so many of us perhaps had an illicit hookup during the showtime. I think I watched it on an award screener at home. I do not think I watched it in a theater. I think that I actually watched it as part of like an awards generating for your consideration experience, which was timely to this. But yeah, so do we want to talk to plot? Yeah. If you are ready for the 60-second plot description,

Roxanna is on you. Are you ready? Okay. I think so. I don't know if we need 60 seconds, but I think, you know, we'll give it our best shot. We'll do it. Okay. Your 60-second plot description for the motion picture, mud starts now. Oh my God. Okay. So mud is about two teen-ish boys, Alice and neckbone, and they, you know, are living like a real, I think they live in like a real like Tom Sawyer type of like living off the land exploring around they're doing some exploring and they come across like a boat in a tree which is incredibly odd and then eventually

they run into the sky played by Matthew Gehme 30 seconds mud oh my god really and so mud is like in trouble and so he asks them to help reconnect with this woman that he says he loves played by Reese Witherspoon. So the kids become this like go-beteen, go-between for them. They find out that mud is being pursued by like some bad guys. And they get pulled into his quest for revenge. Oh my God. Okay, that's it. Real like live and learn coming of age tale. Very true. Oh my god. That was a 60 seconds, man. Fucks me. Wow. Okay. Listen, you you did better than we had been doing where we like, 60 seconds very quickly became 90 seconds, quickly became 90 seconds. And we're getting back on track, so we're going to be following your lead.

I mean, I love that you say that this is such a guy's being dudes movie. Like, I think one of the first lines in the movie is neckbone talking about someone's boobs. I think so. It's really authentic to, like, 14-year-old boys in a way that is not annoying. and, like, gross to sit with and watch. But, like, this is such a, like, male psychology movie in that, like, you have mud who has, like, this long-standing, like, romantic feeling for his girlfriend.

You have the parents' divorce going on where it's, like, it's very much seen through Ellis's, like, journey with that is, you know, seeing his father's own myopia in his relationship with his mother and understanding that his mother is a person who, you know, deserves happiness and, you know, that might come at the expense of the life as they know it.

And, like, you know, it's just like, like you said, like you compared it to a Tom Sawyer type of thing. It's very much almost like an American myth type of thing where you have even weird things, like the boat in the tree, but then also we talked a little bit about how this is like a way of life that's going away. These people who are living on the river will not be able to do so for much longer. So it's like it feels like a myth being made in the moment, like the type of story that'll create its own legend. It's a story about somebody becoming disillusioned in a way that makes them better, which I think is interesting,

where he invests so much in this relationship between mud and juniper, and he's got to, Alice has got to do this for him to make, because he loves her, and that should work out. And it parallels with his relationship with the older girl. And he sort of has all that stuff kind of come crashing down around him. And it's just like, yeah, that's probably for the best, that you have a little bit of, you know, a little bit less, fairy tale in the idea of this relationship between mud and juniper because

it's not it doesn't treat either of them actually super fairly by sort of denying the complicated human stuff with them and I don't know I get the feeling that like yeah he'll be he'll be better for this whole situation snake bite or no what was we were we oh go ahead oh all I was going to say is that there is much of this like romanticization that the movie is doing and then actively sort of working against like to your point yeah like he thinks like well mud loves juniper so like why wouldn't of course they should help save her right because he used to quote unquote save her and then there's everything with his parents divorce of course but i also think there's just this sense of like

if your way of life is being purposely removed or erased by people with more power than you, is there anything you can do to maintain your selfhood against those people? And so I think it's very important for him, like you said, to sort of learn that there aren't, like, necessarily white knights and heroes and people who are always correct and people who are always wrong. There's more shades of gray and, like, more lived experience than that. But ultimately Except for Paul Sparks Who's a real son of a bitch

Yeah and that's my point It's like ultimately we do end with some semblance of like Not a happy ending But a sort of like justice or like justified vengeance Yeah And I think it's helpful to have that sort of like Some people are assholes and they deserve to get fucked And some stuff in your life you can't change and you have to accept

And like those are the two realities but Chris, what are you going to say? I'm sorry. Oh, no, I was going to say, because you mentioned the hit, who Ellis believes to be his girlfriend, who his great love is. May Pearl. May Pearl.

Yeah. Like, very sweet. And, like, I want to talk about Ty Sheridan later, because I think Ty Sheridan is incredible in this movie. Tremendous. He's tremendous in this. Yeah. What movie were we talking about recently where, like, the signifier of young, adolescent male

goodness was having the. crush on a slightly older girl. Oh, shoot, it was something. It is a trope in movies, though, but it's like, see, he's a good guy. Is it not licorice pizza? No, it wasn't like that. Okay. Because I have a lot of complicated.

I'm trying to think of, like, what, uh, me too, actually. It was, it was very along the lines of mud, and I can't remember what it was, but it, I was racking my brain watching the movie the other day, um, trying to remember when we, what movie we were having that conversation. about um right yeah i mean we do tend to roll our eyes like movies by especially white dudes about white dudes but like this is one that actually does it so incredibly well i think and uh back to ellis's you know romantic visions for

this older teenage girl like he's coming in and like punching other guys in the face in like her honor and then when he does it again it's ultimately more about him than it is about her or their relationship and yeah that also felt very like very true to life in that way of just like

there was always that one little kid who wasn't afraid of anybody who would like you know what I mean who would punch the older kid and and feel like irrational confident to talk to the older girls and whatnot. And I was just like, that feels real. Like, Ty Sheridan feels very,

very well suited to that, and he performs that aspect of that kid really well, where he's just like, where she's just like, you're only, or she's like, you know, you just punched a senior and he's just like, I don't know. Yeah, like, so what? Like, he cares, yeah. And so I love that so much of that

and I think that's why Mud becomes this heroic figure so quickly, right? is I think like neither of these kids has that sort of like yet has that fear of like social order or like what you're supposed to do the hierarchies that you're supposed to follow and like it's very easy to idolize someone like mud who like is living on the outskirts he needs a little bit of help but he's willing to get it from kids right it's like they're surrounded by adults who don't think that they can do anything right well and so much of this movie is who's teaching these kids

and what are they teaching him? What is Michael Shannon teaching them where like the girl runs out of the house and she's just like you treat women like princesses not like your cousin in there or whatever and like what is he passing out of these ones? What is Ray McKinn? He goes through this thing like I didn't raise

a thief, right? You know, after he finds out that he stole the boat motor and whatever and what are you accusing Sarah Paulson of like setting a bad example by divorcing him and quote unquote taking his lively or whatever of these broken men. They're all my favorite broken men. Ray McKinnon always giving a A-plus performance no matter what role he's in.

Ray McKinnon. It doesn't matter. Secret Oscar winner. Secret Oscar winner Ray McKinnon for what the hell was it. It was the same short that Walton Goggins went up with them, but because only two people could be awarded the prize, Walton Goggins is not an Oscar winner. The accountant. The accountant, 2001, one best live action short film. God, Waltzman and Rick, have they been in anything together? I have to imagine. Was McKinnon in Justified? If he wasn't, then that was a clerical error. Yeah. Did we like not print the second page of the Catholic? Some PA forgot to pick him up on, no, he's in one episode of Justified. Oh, bless him. Bless that man.

talking about like the formation of these young wait timeout can I just take a time out because this is just very funny the ray McKinnon's Wikipedia page under television I'm just going to start at a random point here it's 2004 he's in deadwood 2008 he's in something a TV miniseries called Comanche moon 2010 justified 2011 sons of anarchy 2013 to 2016 rectified then fear the walking dead then Mayans motorcycle club like that is a vibe of a section that is a section of a filmography that is a vibe that is a complete vibe so yeah that is I mean truly he is the character actor for your sons of anarchy fan which is not necessarily an insult no no I watched every episode of sons of anarchy can't get that time back I bailed on it at some point but I watched it heavily for yeah did you watch it because you thought it was good or did you watch it because of like a particular man who happened to start. Listen, Joe Reed's going to love a

Charlie Hunnam performance. You see a lot of Charlie Hunnam butt in that for sure. But also for a while, before her character became irredeemable, like Katie Sagal was like serving a word I'm not going to say, but like you know what I mean? She's just like serving

absolute boots down. You know what I mean? Does it rhyme with Hunt? It sure does. It sure does. And, but in the most complimentary way I can possibly put that. She was killing it. She was doing a bunch of

satisfying performances in a very poorly written show. How much did, was Taylor Sheridan just an actor in that? Or did he take part in? I thought that he was just an actor. I think he was. Maybe he wrote an episode

at some point. But he wasn't like he was not, obviously it was it was. It was Sutter. Katie Suggall's husband. Yeah, it was definitely Kurt Sutter. It was not Taylor Sheridan.

Who also feels like a thing we don't have time to unpack but like there's a lot of problematic we don't have a full day yeah we don't have the Taylor Sheridan version of mud sucks

well this is the thing is when Taylor Sheridan started like making movies I was like oh the guy who was in the early seasons of Suns of Anarchy that's interesting I really hope that someone eventually

because he doesn't give like press interviews right but I hope someone eventually is like that guy right like that's when you got your start right yeah yeah yeah yeah I still love hell or high water, but like I've, it's been diminishing returns for me. It has been. Yeah. Yeah. I just don't, it's like, how did that come out of your brain,

but also all the other stuff? Like, what happened? It does feel like also, like, Jeff Nichols went away and then Taylor Sheridan, like, took that void and, like, moved into that void a little bit and was like, now I will be making movies, but like, movies and TV, but like, more cynically than these, you know? You know how there was. that piece, I think it was in Time magazine this week. That was like, everyone has a doppelganger. And, like, you might, like, you might share DNA with them. You might not.

But, like, ultimately, just the way that we've progressed as a society. Like, they are the, like, Taylor Sheridan is the tethered version of Jeff Nichols. I think so. I think that's right. Well, I mean, Taylor Sheridan is the violent underworld version of Jeff Nickle. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I'm like, can you please stay down there? Like, sir.

Someone turn off the escalator. do not come up here but yeah so it's like all of these like supporting male characters and yet and this is like the michael man of it all like all of these men still want some kind of like connection or togetherness like with these boys because i think about the michael shannon i think he's taking like neckbone fishing or they're just like sitting on the dock or the pier or whatever i don't know water there's water and he's like you know i'm your uncle you can like tell me stuff and it's like God damn it. Like, that is the emotional, vulnerable, that's the good shit.

I just want it noted that at the 45-minute mark, Roxana brought in Michael Mann. So it did take 45 minutes. I'm sorry. It really needed to occur. It was either going to be Michael Mann or Derek Chionne-France. Like, one or the other. You know, we did an episode on Place Beyond the Pines, and I have ever since then take a note of who our allies are

in the world the place beyond the pines and you are definitely among those. There's like what, like a dozen of us? Like we're really growing our race. We're holding it down. We're holding it down.

Absolutely. For sure. But yeah, so there are all these like very like it seeming to me like American sort of archetype like men who don't talk very much but are like sort of stern and distant

and then each of them sort of gets that scene where there's more to me than the audience expects and then these boys expect. That's why Sam Shepard's casting is so perfect because I feel like he is the grandfather of that sort of figure. Yeah, so like the ensemble cast

is just like 100% on point. Well, and this is where I'm going to maybe steer us into the McConaissance conversation because McConaughey is, of all of the movies of the McConaissance. And there are some that I feel like he gives even better performances than he gives here, even though I think he's very good here. And there are some, obviously, that he got a lot more recognition for. He wins the Oscar. The same year, Mudd comes out in theaters. But this movie

really captures something about how you can use Matthew McConaughey in a movie, because I think he's very adaptable as a type. He can play these very flashy characters, like in Magic Mike, and he can play these very grimy sort of taciturn characters, but also he has this very particular way of speaking. So if you give him a part with a lot of dialogue, that also works very well, and there's a lot, like, you can adapt. But what Mud does that I think is really interesting is it takes this character

who is, you know, this sort of lying, low criminal type, but you also need him to be utterly fascinating. And that's what he brings is this kind of you. Just look at the figure that he cuts, sort of. And I'm not just talking about how, like, his body looks in this movie, although his body looks amazing. It looks good. Like, thank you.

Like, I really appreciate it. Just zero in on the teeth. The body do nothing for me. But just like he's such a figure of fascination immediately. Like, as soon as you sort of see him start talking to, him it's just this this uh you absolutely don't ever question in this movie like why don't these boys just not come back there and like leave this guy alone because like no obviously you would he's so incredibly just like you know transfixing in this like very enigmatic way well it's this

kind of impossible role in that like you have to have somebody who has the ability of matthew mccaneh who can both be a leading man and a character act and like that's absolutely kind of the demand in what you're describing like it has to be such a magnetic he has to like give you everything and nothing at the same time but like you have to understand the draw of this man to these children and like I don't know who else can really do that I yeah I've been thinking of the whole time and we always talk about how like Brad Pitt you know RIP when Brad Pitt was good I know it was like a character actor and leading man's body. Like, there have always been the sort of descriptors. But I feel like McConaughey does something very interesting in that, like, he keeps himself separate from these children because they are still children. Yeah.

At the same time, like, he's interested in their lives, I think, and in their perspectives. And I feel like he communicates this sort of curiosity and this distance, right? It's like, I will let you into a certain point. I will let myself into your life to a certain point and then like if a line is crossed sort of fucked which does happen like midway through the film

I mean like he does have these children running as his go-betweens to Juniper and it is sort of treating them like they're adults and they're not and it is sort of elongating his character's sense of is this what you were like as a teenager

because you're not a teenager anymore. They are, but like you're not equals. And I think that that's what makes Sam Shepard's character so interesting. It's because he starts out by being like, I'm not going to help mud because he's like thrown his life away by being in love with her and not accepting that she doesn't want him or doesn't need him or whatever. So there's a lot of, I think, very interesting sort of subtext in the sense of like if the way of life on the river is being phased out,

and changing, and you have to change, what does that also say about, like, aging and, like, what part of yourself do you have to let go of when you're 20, when you're 30, when you're 40? Like, how do you grow and adapt? Well, in a moment that I really loved is towards the end when Mud actually has this moment of Ellis says, you're a good man too, Mud, and he goes, well, no, I'm not.

But he starts to say, but maybe now, after this, I can start. And he's interrupted by a shotgun blast. And I was like, that's a really cool moment where you get this definite glimmer from mud that, like, he gets it. And he's, you know, and I don't think the shotgun blast, like, cuts that short. I think there's a version of this movie where, like, he was about to come around, and then he just got sucked back into this violent life, and that's going to be his life forever.

I do feel like by the end of this movie, there's a sense of optimism for his character. But I think it's really well done that this sort of moment of clarity with him also then has to be, he also has to deal with the violent consequences. It's like the samurai cowboy thing, right? Where it's like I'm going to roll into town and I do have to kill all of my enemies to be able to get out. Like, he is able to like sail down toward the Gulf of Mexico with Sam Shepard. But like, they murder the entire, the entire Arkansas mom. yeah like they're like you know fuck you guys but what i love about that scene too that you just mentioned joe is like the shotgun blast happens and like he throws himself over ellis right yes yep it's like protecting them i think once he realizes that he's used them yes protecting them does become like a top priority for him well the whole like snake bite scene where he you know puts tiny teeny tiny sweet baby ellis on the motorcycle wrapped in a blanket

is also a little bit of that too because it's he's like swaddling him like he's an injured kitten or something but he reminds him like a baby bird I feel like he's like treating him like when you find something injured on the way home when you try to parent

like how can I fix this like how can I do this better but there's also an element of that scene where it's like he can't there's a he's been such a bad person that there's a limitation in how good of a person he can be because he gets into

that hotel, not hotel, that hospital lobby and immediately all eyes are on him. So it's like he can't even do this good deed without bringing more danger. So he's such like you know, damaged goods. Also when he like, how does he hop

off of that motorcycle? It's like he just like lifts himself two inches off the ground and just lets the motorcycle keep going. See, it's so funny. It's like, if we're talking about, like, I would call that, like, a favorite scene. And if we're talking about favorite scenes, I do also love him watching Reese on her balcony. Yeah.

And that little, like, a little wave. Yeah. I'm sorry. Are you telling me that that's not an homage to heat because it's right there. It's right there. It's right there. Like the Valcillever Ashley Judd moment. But, yeah, I mean.

like Reese Witherspoon I mean this was when was this in relation to wild this was two years before it would have been wild is 2014 yeah yeah well that's that's what so this is the interesting thing is this is the like in the thick of the mccanissance

and yet I remember on the heels of the mccanissance I remember people were already sort of talking about is rees sort of building something and I think the two of them being in this movie sort of helped sort of push that A lot of failures for her.

I remember our friend Katie Rich coined the resurgence, which wasn't used very much, but it should have been because it was great. We could have had more resurgence if, like, some of her TV stuff is good. Most of it is not. But if she wasn't so much in fucking TV. Well, I think she, but again,

I think in terms of, like, what gave her power, TV gave her power. It did. movies, like, movies were not fucking with Reese for a while. And, like, Joe and I have talked a lot about how Wild did not get the credit it deserved, especially for her as a producer. Wild is exceptional. Like, Wild is wonderful.

And I think, because Big Little Lies was post Wild, right? It was like they had worked together on Wild. And then it became, like, look at this other shit that we can do. So I think, like, there are many TV things that she's done that have been sort of forgettable. There have been movies she's done that have been sort of forgettable as a producer. She's coming off of a lot of them before this movie. Yeah, but I think like that definitely gave her power. But yeah, like grungy, dirty, tattooed Reese.

Well, around this time, around this time, she had sort of shown herself willing and even eager to sort of take smaller roles in really interesting projects because it was mud this year. it was Inherent Vice in 2014 where she gets that really small performance in inherent vice

But like at the end of the day That's a bigger role Than even the mud role is It's just like The mud roll carries more Significance to the movie To the film Right

And then It's a role She's in the lead in this But she's in a movie That's a very small movie Called the Good Lie That played at Tiff in 2014 That I thought was better

Than it got credit for I don't think anybody saw that movie Nobody did. I was the only person at Tiff that I knew who saw it, and I was sort of like crowing about it. And it's about sort of relocating refugee populations. Yes. And at the time, my sister worked sort of adjacently in that sort of field a little bit.

So I remember being like, so she was the one where I was just like, you got to see this and, you know, show all your colleagues and whatnot. It's such a good movie. But yeah, nobody else that I knew. It was produced by Ron Howard and Brian Grazer. That's interesting. Wow. And that was the same year as Wild. So obviously Wilde, you know, was the, and Wild being the same year as Gone Girl is also interesting.

Because Gone Girl was another professional success that was not a big enough success. Like Gone Girl should have been more successful financially and awards-wise. Like, that movie's so good. And it felt like she was. Yeah, I felt like it was commercially. successful. Oh, it was commercially successful. You're right. You're right. The lack of Oscar nominations beyond Rosamond Pike really do a lot to kind of shadow. I cannot believe. I mean, it's Affleck. How do you not recognize arguably a top five Affleck performance?

It's easily the best Affleck performance. I don't think there's a better one. A million percent. I still think Chucky is pretty good. But I think they're playing different versions of them. Like, he's playing a different version of himself. in each of those. Yes. And so it's very fascinating to sort of see that progression. But did he get nominated for Argo? Like, get the fuck out of here, right? Like, get out of here.

Like, come on. I don't think he's ever been nominated as an actor. I'm going to look. We're going to figure this out. Affleck has never been nominated as an actor. Never? Never. Wow.

No. Yeah. Yeah. It's crazy. Yes. They don't like him. They do not like him. I don't get it.

They're like, look, you can have. have this best picture because of our latent Islamophobia, but we cannot give you a best actor nomination. I'm sorry. It's not. Or a best director nomination. Oh, wow. So recent Reese producer stuff is, although was she a producer on a wrinkle in time or was she just in it? I think it's at least her production company had a hand. Right. Isn't it hello sunshine or little sunshine or whatever? And then there's Lucy in the Sky, which we've talked about on this podcast. Oh, Lucy in the Sky! Wow.

Yeah. And then currently there's where the crowd ads sing, which I have not seen, but is supposed to be not good. Correct. And so, right, so her successes are definitely more in television for as much as people shit on the morning show, that show is going into its third season. People love that shit. Like, we all shit on it. I think like regular America, watch. watches it.

Yeah, I think that's true. I think that's definitely true. Big Little Lies, unadulterated success, even though I didn't like the second season. I think it's still, Little Fires Everywhere is junkie, but I watched that whole thing. I think people watched it.

I mean, I think Reese has a lock on what Reese fans want. And I think where the Cropad thing has now become commercially successful, I think. That wouldn't shock me. My mom was talking a lot about wanting to go see that when I was home last time. Shout out to Joe's mom.

I would absolutely go see that movie with your mother. What is wrong with you that you didn't go see that movie with your mother? I was in New York. I was back in New York by that point. She's also... It's really terrible, but, you know... But I'll see movies. Like, I'll see a movie even if it's going to be terrible.

Please, I might go see Mac and Rita when we're done with this. Hey-o. Hey-o. Can I ask, what is Reese doing next? And what is McConaughey doing next? Okay, Reese, we might actually get the resurgence because I think Legally Blonde 3 is actually finally happening. And she's hinted that she is going to be doing a revisit of Tracy Flick because of the other. Wow.

Okay. So, like, it might not be the resurgence we want, but, like, she seems ready to assume the Reese's mantle of, like what we know her for. She's also finished filming on a romantic comedy from writer-director, Aline Broch McKenna, who wrote The Devil Where's Prada script

and it was also Crazy Ex-Girlfriend. I was going to say, Rachel Bloom's co-conspirator on Crazy Ex-Girlfriend. Her cast, she's in it. I don't know who the male lead is, but it's either Ashton Coucher or Jesse

Williams, which That's interesting. That's an interesting flip of a coin. Yeah. Which way that goes. I mean, I definitely need some Reese that's going to make me forget that she was all in on crypto. Oh, all of those people need to like, yeah, need to make us forgets. It's important for women.

The one that I hated the most, it was maybe because I was watching a lot of, it must have advertised a lot during, like, football or something because I saw a lot of it was. The Matt Damon crypto app. Matt Damon being like, Mr. Pussy. you should be doing crypto, and I was just like, fuck you. It was like, you fucking bitch, why aren't you investing in crypto? Yeah, what do you, what are you, what are you chicken? It's so funny, poor Ben Affleck, because clearly Matt Damon is like the villain of that friendship. Like, I am not a Ben Affleck fan, so I, uh, uh, uh, I know, I know, now is my turn to, to, uh, run a foul.

No, I'm not in a never been. I think there's a possibility that they are both different types of villains who are friends. I described Ben Affleck as a real-life Don Draper, and I stand by that. And because of my deep love for Don Draper, I think I forgive Ben a lot of things. I think Matt is more directly like, I am a chaos demon. I also think Affleck has settled into publicly playing his own self. You know what I mean? Like he's, and I think for so long, Matt Damon tried to be the A-Lister Golden Boy while being problematic on the low.

And people don't like that. Then all of a sudden you get those Project Greenlight moments was just like, oh, you're being an asshole. And they get that, my daughter had to tell me to stop saying faggot interview. I was going to say, oh, you're being an asshole. Ben Affleck definitely stopped saying the F slur before Matt Damon did. Jennifer Gardner worked that out of him. Jennifer Garner stamped that. probably worked that out.

Well, Jennifer Garner, their wedding was officiated by Victor Garber. So, like, Jennifer Garner was not having that, like, at all. I fully believe that. So, yeah. God, imagine Ben Affleck as mud. What a different time. What a different movie, man would have to have been set in Southie.

That would not work. Mud would have been on the outskirts of Boston. Yep, yep, 100%. He's in the back bay. He's got a little boat in the back bay. It's not pigly wiggly. It's a Dunkin. It's a stop and shop that, yeah, with the Duncan in the plaza.

And I guess, like, Rebecca Hall is staring at a wall of Dunkin' Donuts instead of... Oh, Rebecca? No, she's... I was just thinking of the town. The town, yeah. Rebecca Hall in the town is top five thankless female roles in movies that don't need women in them. You know what I feel like they don't need women. Did not need a woman.

Like, that, like, no. Poor Becky. Yeah. No, I really like the town excluding her performance, and I really disliked her for a while after that movie. Because I was like, this is terrible. Like, what is this? That movie does not do right by her.

But it's really the character that is unnecessary, and then, like, her performance is colored by that. But clearly she's exceptional. Whereas I think I always, I did at the time, and I still do, maybe it's ironic. I don't know, Blake lively's performance in that movie because that knows, she knows who that character is, and she is going for it, as far as I'm concerned. No one involved with the town knows what Rebecca Hall's character is, however. Right.

Okay, but looking forward to the future for Matthew McConaughey, also not bleak. I think this man thinks that he is going to be running for politics. I do think that he is considering running for office. I could 100% see that. Yes. I forgot that. Yes. Yes. I mean, I will say that I did think his Evalde involvement was powerful and good. Yeah.

I think in general, he says a lot of shit that I'm like, sir, like take a stance. Like, do really anything. Exactly. Right. But I did think that he was very, I don't know, he sort of fucked me up after that. No, no. That was good. Yeah.

All right. Let's talk about Tyshire. So we're not getting the paper boy too. Is that what you're telling me? Listen, he's good in the paper boy, if I remember correctly. He is good in the paper boy. Like, everything about that movie is like, distaste. tasteful and disgusting, but all

of the performances are good. Yeah. I think that's... I mean, not John Cusack. I would argue against John Cusack. Cusack's really bad. Really all I'm saying is Kidman good, Ephron good, McConaughey good. Macy Gray, amazing. Macy Gray good. I mean, I even think David Aielloa was doing fine.

Yeah. But yeah. Okay. It's just Qusack. Cusack's the problem. Said every liberal on Twitter. Okay. So, yeah. So, yeah, yeah. Tai Sheridan, Joe. Yeah, let's talk about Ty Sheridan.

God, so great. Nominated by Critics Choice for Best Young Performer, and I put it in our outline because it is outrageous. Lost to Adele X-Arcopoulos for Blue is the Warmest Color for Best Young Performer. How old was she? I think you have to be 20 or under for that category. Which just makes the movie extra icky, but, like, she's nominated against actual children. Yeah, like, there should be, like, a 100% like an age cutoff.

It should be, like, 16. Like, it should not be up to 21. Yeah. Like, I don't. Also, even on the merits, and I don't hate blue as the warmest color, like I think a lot of people do, he gives a better performance. Like, he's the class of this category. No, no shade to poor Ace of Butterfield and Ender's game. He was not.

He didn't know. He didn't know, man. No one in that movie knew. Liam James in the way, way back. We talked about that movie. He's not very good. Oh, I think he's so good in that. But I really love that movie.

I love that movie. And then Sophie Nellis from the book thief, a movie that I definitely saw. I definitely saw it. And don't recall much about it. No, not one bit. Stealing those books, apparently, though. Here's the real question.

Has Ty ever been this good again? Because I would argue, no. So I wanted to talk about his career, because he's now an actor who I think people turned on in four things that I don't necessarily feel like are his fault. I don't think I realized people turned on him. When did people turn on him? Somewhere around the X-Men Ready Player One thing. Okay. Oh, I totally forgot.

I have a ready player one. And the thing about Ready Player One is, but like, okay, so you're Ty Sheridan, you're a young up-and-coming actor. It's the new Steven Spielberg movie. And you can be the lead actor as an American boy actor trying to like, and then you can be in the lead. And all of a sudden, oops, you're in the one Steven Spielberg movie that's super obnoxious and your character is the most obnoxious part of it. Whenever I see people try to defend Ready. player one is like, no, it's about critiquing all of this thing. And it's like, no, you are working

very hard to make that point. Yeah. There's nothing about that movie that is critical. That movie is just a hand job all over pop culture. It's revolting. And it wouldn't exist if Steven Spielberg didn't direct it because like Steven Spielberg makes that movie. Yes, we will hand over the rights cheaply for you to use all this IP. That's fair. I mean, really, you should just let a British actor take the heat for that one. You should have just painted that over. And so butterfield. Why not?

Let him take the heat again. And Cyclops is such a curse. Like, I don't think that's a role that is forgiving or good. But also. It wasted Marsden, right? I mean, like, if you find a way to waste Marsden, anyone else is going to get wasted, too. The only thing that Marsden's participation as Cyclops is good for is contributing to, the why are we continuing to cast James Marsden as people who his girlfriend leaves for other people,

which at least like, that's a narrative that fascinates me from the notebook and Enchanted and X-Men. So at the very least, I'm like, well, at the very least you've given me a lot to think about as to what's- You've given me a trend piece. Thank you. You've given me a trend piece. Thank you. That's what I was looking for.

Yeah, thank you. The thing about Ladder X-Men is, and this is, I feel the same. about Sophie Turner, which is just like, I can't fault these young actors who hop on to this train and that train goes straight to hell. Sure. And what's his name from Power of the Dog, too, where it's just like, Cody Smith-McPhee. Cody, yeah. Cody Smith-McPhee.

And it's just like, they were, you know, following the best advice of their agents for that one. You know what I mean? In my mind, no movie, no X-Men movie after first class is real. They're just not real. They're not real. No. I mean, you're not entirely wrong.

Can we blame Jessica Chastain? Like, she should have known better. She should have known better. I do kind of... She had choices. She had options. She didn't need to do that. Yeah.

I agree with that. I guess this is where I share that I cannot stand Jessica Chastain. Is that, should I... I know? Should I leave? I understand why a person could not like Jessica Chastain. I just fall on the other side of that line. That's fine.

The weirdness appeals to me. I will say, speaking of Ty Sheridan, that's all. I thought he was quite good in the card counter. I was going to say the same. Yes. Yes. Thank you. And that's a good trend. Things are trending in a good direction. How was the mountain? Was that good?

I don't do Roy Albertson movies. I don't know if those are going to be for me. I say that having never seen one, but like the people that love them and the way they love them, I'm like, I'm going to, I'm not. It was a very big deal at South Bay in 2019 when I went. Like I remember that There was, like, a lot of buzz.

But I also feel like that's when some Jeff Goldblum stuff came out. And I was like, I don't know if I want to spend time of Jeff Goldblum right now. Yeah, that's fair. That's fair. Yeah, card counter, very good. Very good fix, which he showed in this movie, I think, which is like a little bit obsessive. And a little bit believing that, like, if I do this one thing, everything will work out. Well, and Oscar Isaac is so intense in that movie.

and for another actor to be able to hold up to that energy in those scenes together and I think he really does and I think it's a really good performance. It's also a good sign for his career that he doesn't just have that performance that's good but he's continuing to work with interesting people too.

Yes, yes, in like interesting capacities and I will say that like I think when that movie, like when his performance started I was like, I don't know if I really am like on this wavelength but then by the time like redacted happened I was like oh I actually am like emotionally invested and what happened to this character and it's because of his performance so yeah good for you

tie but yeah i mean again this was a movie that like you needed the kids to be very compelling and empathetic even when they're acting like little shits yeah and this you know mud got that correct i loved there's so many scenes of the two of them just observing things happening that i think are so well performed by the two of them and it's they're just Just, I don't know, they give off a really genuine energy and a lot of those things. And, like, the other kid, what's his name, Loughlin? Jacob Loflin. Okay, I think Tyler, but, yeah, Jacob sounds like his actual name.

And he, like, children who were born in the year 2000. Yeah. He won this, like, big open call for the role of, like, local actors, I guess. And obviously, Jeff Nichols is a huge Arkansas guy. Like, he really wants to, like, support. that sort of local film scene, and he sets and films a lot of his movies there. So that kid, like Ty Sheridan by this point had been in a Terrence Malick movie. You know what I mean?

Like, he was already on a little bit of a trajectory. And so I think their, my worry going back into mud is like, is Ty Sheridan going to seem really slick compared to this really sort of unpolished other kid? And I don't think that's the case at all. I think they go together really, really well. Yeah, I completely agree. It does feel like these are just two kids who happen to be friends, who happen to come upon this scenario together and have to work it out.

And I think that there is, like, I'm thinking about, like, sort of how, like, sarcastic they are. Like, the movie walks this very good line of, like, they're obviously very earnest and sincere because they have to be to be compelled by what mud is telling them and the story and like the right and wrong of it all but also yeah to your point chris neckbone is just like look at her titties like so there is this you know like they do capture that sense of like a 14 year old who i think is on the cusp of trying to grow up a little bit and thinking about like what does that mean physically and like sexually and hormonely and all that crap And so you have, like, that stuff that your body is telling you. Yeah. In conjunction with, like, what's your, like, uncle telling you? What's your best friend's dad telling you? What's mud telling you?

Right. And all these, like, varying, revolving male figures that sort of float in and out of their lives. Well, he does a very good job in the scene where he has to yell at him, the big blowup scene where it ultimately lands at the one line that really lives is like, you've made a thief out of me. Yeah. Which is not an easy line. line to sell, actually, because it sounds a little literary, you know what I mean? This movie is very literary, though. The dialogue

is, it does remind me of like a dead wood where there is sort of this like southern formality to it. And I think all of them do very well with that. I don't remember if it was Chris or Joe, which one of you said, but like McConae has always been a very interesting line delivery

guy. And I think there are some lines here that I'm like, I don't even, that's like poetry. Like, how did you do that? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I was really, yeah, I was really impressed by the scene where he's required to go big that he had the chops for it. Well, especially because, like, that's the type of scene, especially on the page that you look at and you're like, okay, here we go.

This is going to be a young performer just comes in there wailing and sobbing, and it's, he definitely does more than that, you know. And again, like the bedroom scene where he tells, like, you're a good man. There's, like, there's no artifice in that. Like, in that moment, he really, really believes it. And to then be told, like, I'm not, but because of you, I'll try. Like, that is so just, I don't know. Oh, it fucks me up. I would try to be a better person for Ty Sheridan, too.

I know. I know. And I think that's, like, that's what I always think about. Like, for me, a good movie makes you consider, like, what did the characters do? before you got to them and what could they potentially be doing after? And I think every time I watch mud, I want to know more about how

mud became who he is. And I want to know more about like what happens to these kids who are best friends who are now separated, right? Because Alice is like moving with his mom. And I just, I always want to know like what could happen these kids further on. One question about further down

the cast list really briefly is Paul Sparks in like the top 10 of like actors who are so good at playing the type that they have where he shows up and you're like this fucking guy. I mean let's say mud, thoroughbreds, boardwalk empire.

I was going to say this movie comes right in the middle of his run on boardwalk empire. And that one, he's at least a little pathetic where you're just like, what was his name? Mickey Doyle. And you're just like, God damn it. I never remember his name, but I think of him as a human version

of the, what are they, ferrets or whatever, in Roger Rabbit? The weasels. Yes, yes. I'm like, oh, we're doing a live action Roger Rabbit, it's you. Yeah. Well, and it's like, I look at his Campering around, asking for Eddie Ballant. And I haven't seen him in all of these things,

but like, he's in 27 episodes of House of Cards. Here's what I'm willing to bet. He's probably a son of a bitch in House of Cards. Probably, yeah. I definitely think he was, died in House of Cards, or is he the he's not the one that they're having sex with? No.

I don't know. I bailed. I definitely bailed by that. I mean, he's an asshole in Midnight Special, right? Am I remembering that? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, Midnight Special. We should talk a little bit more about the Jeff Nichols, other movies because we've talked like Jeff Nichols, Jeff Nichols, Jeff Nichols, but not the other ones. Like, another thing I think about Jeff Nichols before he goes away is like, there is kind of an air of the reception

to things, becoming more and more disappointing to people. Like, his first movie is Shotgun Stories, which is very small and, like, doesn't really get in the recognition, but then it's Take Shelter, which, you know, is part of Jessica Chastain's massive year. Michael Shannon is incredible in that movie, and, like, Jeff Nichols kind of gets the, a certain type of, like, sin-assed approval at the time of that movie. You know, that's how he becomes, like, one of the can darlings

like he's in director's Fortnite for that movie Right Midnight Special which like We have to do a midnight special episode We should sometime because like Just to do more research on like How that movie was kind of like kept a secret And like kicked around as like

This is going to be Warner Brothers Big Awards play But then like The language of that movie Does not fit comfortably in what people expect that movie to be as a piece of science fiction and it's more like Jeff Nichols doing an understated nuance type of thing

and it's another movie's about fathers and sons et cetera, et cetera. I like that movie. It fits for me for his filmography. Exactly. But I think not for what... I think people were like, this is going to be super ape, right? Like, I think they thought it would be another

like, we're going to be in a sci-fi world with kids and it's going to celebrate the genre and like all this shit. And Jeff was like, I'm going to give you a movie about cults. Yeah. God and fathers and sons. And it's really,

it's really aloof too. Of all of his movies, it's really remote emotionally. Yes. And it's tough. I think you're just asked to care. I don't know necessarily if he works enough to make you care.

Well, then this is one of the major complaints about loving when it comes out and it plays can. And ultimately it gets the nomination for Ruth Nega, who is in tremendous, who's incredible in that movie. But it is understated in a way that especially movies of that type of like true life subject matter, like people expect it to function in a certain way that I don't think Jeff Nichols is all that interested in. And in Loving, it's kind of partly the point that like these were people who have an, like, incredibly important role in American history, but these were people who just wanted to live

their lives outside of that type of, you know, spectacle. Yeah, it is not really like a biopic. Like, it is not really, you know, it doesn't follow necessarily, I think, the beats that that subgenre have sort of, like, distilled in us to follow. Yeah. It's a biopic that meets its subject on their own terms, and, like, those terms are not necessarily what people want out of, you know, a historical biopic. He's talked about how Loving was the movie where he felt like he finally came into a good sense of what to do with a camera, how to move a camera. Like he said, like so much of, like, his films were this learning process.

A lot of mud is on Steadicam, and he's talked in the aftermath of, like, Steadicam was good for mud. but I don't think that's what I want to really do. And he said Loving was the movie where he finally felt confident that he knew what he was doing with the camera. And he said part of that was that Loving wasn't necessarily his story. It wasn't like take shelter or mud,

these scripts that he had written, that Loving, even though I do feel like he has screenplay credit, he does have screenplay credit, but he was like, this isn't my story. He has an emotional distance from it in a way. telling somebody else's story, so that allowed me to sort of play the technician on that one. And I think that does make sense. And there are places in that movie, I think of the casting of Nick Kroll, I think of especially,

where you sort of inject a little bit of personality just through the casting. I think, I think Kroll's really interesting in that movie, actually. I think the problem with that movie, especially in the emotional remoteness of it, is Joel Edgerton's performance, because it's like he's doing what he's. to do, but it's not because of, I think, the actor's limitations, or maybe ultimately the actor's correctness for the role is just not that interesting to watch. I do think, though, that I like it. I like loving.

I always got the sense during that awards season that I liked loving a little bit better than maybe the consensus of it was. But I was glad that at least Ruth Naga was able to get that Oscar nomination from it, because she really was tremendous of it, and it was not a guarantee up until that day. Not a guarantee. And more and more, I'm like, is this going to happen again? Or what is going to go down?

Because passing was completely blanked, right? Yes. Yes, it was. Yeah, she's really good in that, too. Yeah. I feel like Netflix put their eggs in the don't look up basket this past. They did. They did.

Which is a choice. which is a basket it sure is a basket it's got some holes in that basket because uh people didn't dislike people didn't like the film that we are actively making the environment works but it's yeah i heard that i heard that someplace yeah yeah yeah someone said that yeah yeah so yeah so i definitely like i feel like of those two it's it's it's so interesting to me that basically like it wasn't even a decade right it's like nine years of movies and then it's now been like six years of nothing. Yeah, yeah. We are, we are ready, Jeff. Come back to us, Jeff. And because I didn't read anything about alienation. Like, how did he, did he, you said that he gave a lot of interviews.

So, like, what was, did he, what was his vision? Like, did he discuss what he wanted to do with the movie and then it just obviously got canceled or like, how much work do we think went into it? I think he put a lot of work. I think he really thought this was going to be his big. I know the budget was pretty big on it and that he wanted to go, because, He wanted to keep the title, but essentially tell a very, very different story than what the movie was, than what the original movie was. And he didn't really go into specifics, but it was about this sort of, you know, assimilation of an alien population into society. And he just seemed very excited about it. He didn't really go into a ton of specifics, not in the interviews that I read.

But you could just feel how jazzed he was about this project, which makes me feel like ultra just heartbroken, that it got taken away from him by this dumb corporate merger that was not good for anybody and ruined Fox Searchlight and ruined... I was going to say, after the merger happened and was bad, though, things got good again. It didn't get... Everything... ...demonstrably worse. Yeah, that is so fascinating.

I'm also reading about Yankee Camadante, which is... Yeah, that's the Che Guevara. Yeah, so, like, apparently Adam Driver would play William Alexander Morgan, who was a U.S. citizen who fought in the revolution leading rebels that fought against the Cuban army. So at least it's not Adam Driver as. Yeah, but that's pretty interesting.

I feel like those, again, if we're talking about like how good Nichols is at these like outsider characters who you feel drawn to because of their like outlaw quality or their otherness or whatever it is, I feel like that could be interesting. However, like I do want directors to know

that there are other actors than Adam Driver. I love Adam Driver, but I feel you. But there's a lot of Adam Driver. I mean, speaking of Michael Mann, Adam Driver is now famously Italian. He is at Ferrari, Gucci. Next, he will be Luigi Mario. I was going to say, The Chef Boyardee's story. Yes, yes, yes.

It feels like the year, well, was it? Was it 2019 that, like, Caleb Landry Jones wasn't everything? You want to talk about my nemesis? Is it Caleb Landry Jones? I love him. I love him. Chris, what is your beef, Chris? He's bad.

Oh, okay. Unequivocally. I mean, like, just, I, I've talked about it before about how I think he actively derails get out by showboating. Wow. I think he's just generally speaking a showboat in a way that I find very off-putting. He's a fun little creep, and I love him. I felt somewhere in the middle, I think. All right, good.

We are Goldilocks and the Three Bears of Gayle of Landry Choos. Let's talk about Take Shelter, though, for half a second. It's sort of the Nichols movie we haven't really talked about. I love that movie. I always felt like I liked it a good deal less than everybody liked it at the time. And that was part of my whole I'm not quite there with Michael Shannon thing. but the movie is definitely very impressive as a visual sort of statement of here I am, I'm a director that's going to be doing some cool shit.

Which is so interesting to hear Jeff Nichols say that he wasn't visually assured previously because like Take Shelter is like almost impenetruably visually precise. And even mud. I mean, we keep talking about the boat in the tree house because yes, it's odd. But also, like, he captures it in this incredibly surreal way. I mean, that movie makes the most of these found locations to sort of pull you in. All of those shots on the beach are stunning. Yeah, that's so interesting.

I mean, okay, can I ask, like, how do people feel about the end of Take Shelter? Because I feel like, that's what I always trip over, where I'm like, did it need to become literal? And I can never quite decide. Well, I mean, Jeff Nicol, I've read interviews with Jeff Nicol. where he talks about it because the ending is divisive in that movie and it's like he's like it's not because also

some people think yes it literally is this storm happening or no it's another dream and like he's very firm on the idea of it doesn't matter if it's real or not what matters is that the family is together for once and like they're actually together in the shot whereas in like other ones

they're like in different shots and like you know the family is a united front, and that's the ultimate point of the movie, he says. I will say, as a scene, I like the fact that it connects this movie at the end to the knowing cinematic universe, where all of a sudden Michael Shannon is another, he knows things as Nicholas Cage does in knowing, so there's that. I like that. I mean, any connections to a Nicholas Cage film looks a good. Exactly. Oh, one thing I wanted to bring up before we wrap things up is Nichols has always talked about how he always envisioned McConaug for the role of Mudd. But I did read that they were going to cast Chris Pine for a while. They were looking at Chris Pine for that role. That would work. That would work. Which... It's an interesting idea. It's an interesting idea. Because I feel like you need someone of McConaughey's age. How old is Chris Pine? Wouldn't he have been like... Chris Pine, I do, yeah, I agree with that.

I think he's that young. Like, he's going to conceivably be 29 for a long time. Am I tricked by this man's skin care regimen? Like, what is their age disparity? I just, I think that McConaughey works because he could conceivably be, like, one of their dads. Right. And so I think he sort of needs someone who is, like, older, grizzled in a certain way, and, like, seeing some dark corners of life.

Yeah, Chris Pine is 42. Matthew McConaughey has 52. So there's a 10-year difference between the two of them. I think you sort of need that age gap. And they have a very different physical presence. And Michael, Matthew McConaughey's, Michael McConaughey would have been great. McConaughey has like this kind of, you know, you believe that he's floating around on a boat in a river somewhere. Yeah.

to it. And, like, Pine's been weird, but not this kind of weird before. Okay. I guess, I guess this is how I'll phrase this. Like, Pine has been weird, but I don't actually, sorry to Chris Pine. I don't actually believe that he could, like, rough it on a beach for a time. I think I'm with you. I think I'm with you. I mean, the photos of him recently would like to argue differently to you. He's been to a Margaritaville or two. Yes. But that's different, I think. than, like, needing to exist by that. And I think, like, McConaughey sort of gives you that, like,

this man is a little bit willing to do anything. I think the... Who is the best Chris? Well, my best Chris is Chris Pine conversation. Has perhaps pushed him into an area where he's maybe a little overrated. Yeah, look, I think Pine is great in, like, most... Everybody wants to be different. Yeah, but I don't think, oh, God, we're going to be reductionist.

I don't necessarily think that Chris is like, how do I say this? I want to say I don't think that Chris is like that masculine, which is not exactly what I want to say. You think Matthew McConaughey would be able to beat him up in a fight. It's fine. Yes, we all think so. Exactly. We all agree. I like Chris Fine.

He's pretty. I want to put my face and his face together. But like in a bar fight. Like, I'm taking McConaughey in a bar fight. I do feel like it's hard to have the best Chris stance on Chris Pine because I feel like I haven't actually seen Chris Pine in anything in a while. And that's, but that's, I think that speaks to Joe's point. It's like, filmography-wise, like, I have liked the things that Chris Pine has been in mostly,

but I feel like he hasn't been in that much stuff. I think we're all holding on to like the perfection of Hell or High Water in various ways and how good he is in that. Like, well, the contractor, I didn't watch the contractor. Right. He makes for a good Captain Kirk. I'll agree with that. Yeah.

Apparently, we'll see it again. And I thought actually he was fine in Rinkle in Time. Like, I know that Rinkle in Time. Yeah, I do too, actually. But I actually thought that he was very good in that. So, like, I enjoy him well enough. You see his penis and Outlaw King. I mean, I did watch Outlaw King.

Also shout out to Aaron Taylor Johnson. I mean, he's also good in that. So good in that. oh my god he's so good in that like that is another one of those like did netflix promote this or did me and like five other people watch it and like that was it like it should i went to the tiff premiere of that movie where everybody where i literally walked out and i emailed my uh editor and they said the thing about how you can see his penis and he's like yeah right up that article's like okay yeah yeah that's all anybody talked about about that movie yeah but it was good like it was i liked it yeah i i i didn't see it after it was re-edited after TIF, so I don't know whether it, but like, I liked the version of it. It was too long. It was very long at Tiff, but I enjoyed it for what

it was, uh, when I saw it. It's like Outlaw King and the King. Like, just film Twitter watch those movies. What is David McKenzie doing? I thought that he was doing something that made me vaguely excited, but I could not tell you for the life of me what it is. What if it's TV? Are you guys going to be able to?

Probably. I mean, honestly, probably, it is. I'm going to look. Yeah, he's in pre- production says, according to IMDB, on a TV show called Gemstone. Fuck, yeah. I want 100%... Cool. Gemstone, is this the gemstones, the righteous gemstone cinematic universe?

Yeah, it's just about one of them. Yeah, it's just Danny McBride. Oh, he did direct two episodes of Under the Banner of Heaven, which I thought was an incredibly directed TV show. Yes. Yes, I do recall that. Okay, I mean, good for you, buddy. Yeah.

All right. Should we wrap things up, though, and move in the direction of the IMDB game. I feel like we should. We can. The IMDB game. Joe, why don't you explain to our listeners what the IMDB games? Oh, we didn't. I just, like, just to mention it, we should mention that it won the Robert

Altman Award at the Independent Spirit Awards that year. Correct, which is an ensemble cast award. I would argue a good one. It's a great one. Yeah, I think, I think all... Sometimes they give the Altman to a movie just to sort of clear the decks for their acting categories, because it means they don't

have to nominate the individual. people but like this was a real like top to bottom this cast is really really really really well and they might not have nominated the cast for anything else because was dallas spires club indie spirit eligible because we we didn't mention that this ultimately the release and the awards run for this movie was McConaughey competing with himself and it was well this was the year where all four of the independent spirit award acting winners were also the Oscar winners Cape Blanchett, Matthew McConaughey, Lupita Njango, Jared Leto.

So this was the most that, like, Indy Spirit Awards were the Oscars, essentially. So, I mean, you could probably make the case for it's cool that Mud won the Robert Altman Award. And, like, any of the other actors probably wouldn't have been nominated. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I think that's true. So, yeah. But, yeah, really good cast, top to bottom, and good for it. Good for that. All right. Yes.

I just, I cannot believe that Leto won. I mean, whatever. We don't have to go down that road. No, but I know. It's, I'm like, how did this? Mm-mm. I know. I know.

Mm-mm. Who would, wait, who did he beat? No, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, he be. Oh, Gandalfini posthumously for enough set is very sad that he beat him there. He beat fast bender for 12 years. Will Forte for Nebraska, Gandalfini, and then Lekeith for short-term 12. Which is a great nomination. I thought he was tremendous in that movie.

God damn it. Yeah. God damn it, Jared. assholes. I know. I know. But I mean, that was the that was the rolling stone of that movie. It was not going to be denied. No, we all got crushed. All of us. We did. We all got crushed. All right. All right. Now IMDB game. Yes. Okay. Every week we end our episodes

with the IMDB game where we challenge each other with an actor or actress and try and guess the top four titles that IMDB says they are most known for. If any of those titles are television voice-only performances or not... If any of those titles are television, voice-only performances, or non-acting credits, we mention that up front. After two wrong guesses, we get the remaining

titles, releases as a clue. And if that's not enough, it just becomes a free-for-all of hints. Okay. Okay. All right. Ruxana, as our guest, you get the gift to the upper hand of

choosing if you give or guess first, and which direction you are doing so. So if you have, you choose to give first, you can choose Joe or I to give to you, and then otherwise you will be choosing who you are giving to. Oh, God. I guess I will do the one where I give first. All right. Okay. Who are you giving to?

I'll give to Joe. Okay. So you'll give to me. I'll give to Chris, and Chris will give to you. Okay, cool. Okay, okay, okay. okay so all right who do you got so i am just i am picking someone related to mud or i am picking someone like any actor related to the conversation we usually don't pick somebody from the cast

in case we'd already like done research on them okay okay let me see oh god this is so difficult uh okay you know what i will i will go with because i am looking at his picture right now on the internet, I will go with Sam Rockwell. Sam Rockwell. Okay. Sam Rockwell, if he could beat someone up, could have played Mud. Yes. Not a dance off, but...

Right. Yeah. I'm going to say three billboards outside of New Jersey. Okay. Um... Let me pull it up and see. Uh, that is correct. Okay.

Any, is there any television? There's no television. I don't think there would. Well, Fosse Bird, but no. Okay. Sammy Sam. Seven psychopaths? I feel like that comes up a lot more than it should.

Correct. Yes? Okay. All right. I don't want it to be this, but he did get nominated for it. So I'm going to guess Vice? Incorrect. Okay.

All right. There is some justice in the world. There is some justice in the world. Okay. I love that algorithms, human people, the entire media landscape decides to, you know, delete vice from the memory logs from anything. We do not acknowledge it ever again.

Your years are 2002 and 2009. Is 2009 moon? It is. Okay. He's very good in that. 2002. Confessions of a dangerous mind. Correct.

Well done. He's very good in that too. I like him in that. I'm getting ready to lose at this game because that was hard, Joe. Oh, my God. Oh, Sammy Rocks. All right. So I'm going to give to Chris.

We talked a bit about Jeff Nichols wanting to remake Alien Nation, a movie, that starred Mandy Patinkin, who we've done semi-recently on the IMDB game, and also James Kahn, who recently has to be parted. So I am going to challenge you with James Kahn. Godfather. Yes. Thief. Yes.

Didn't Mickey Blue Eyes show up for somebody one time? Mickey Blue Eyes. No, not Mickey Blue Eyes. There's got to be a dumb comedy in there. Oh, Elf. No, not Elf. Interesting. Two strikes.

Yeah, Elf is very successful. All right, so your two years are 1990 and 2003. 1990 and 2003? Yes. Okay. 2003 would have been after Mickey Blue Eyes. Yes. I love that you orient his entire career around Mickey Blue Eyes.

It's got to be another dumb comedy. Yes, James Conn famously of Mickey Blue Eyes fame. I will tell you as a hint, it is definitely not a dumb comedy. Oh, so it's like a violent. thing. I will say no love. Is it a good comedy? It's not a comedy.

Although its director might disagree. Chris, this is no laughing matter. Take this seriously, Chris. Oh, shit. I know that this is a bit. The director says that it's a comedy, but it's not.

I don't know if he does, but he seems like the type to maybe. And it's probably someone very pretentious. Also, I'm pretty sure it played festivals in 03, but it probably didn't get American release until 2004. Oh, fascinating.

Okay, so I'm trying to think back to... I really love this movie. I think this director is an asshole. There could be so many. Yeah. Okay.

Although he's also recently been diagnosed with something that makes me feel sad. Oh, it's Lars von Trier,

it's Dogville. It's Dogville, yes. Well done. I didn't want to say not violent because, like, he is sort of

the violence in Dogville, essentially. He sort of, he brings the fire. He's a mobster, though, so it's like Mickey Blue Eyes Corps.

Sure, yes. Dogville, famously Mickey Blue Eyes core is how it is categorized in the culture. Yeah. 1990, though, 1990, I don't think is going to be a comedy.

It is not. 1990, what a weird year to place. Yes. Big movie. Oscar movie? Yeah. In one specific case. Oh, so it won an Oscar.

I would be willing to guess it was probably its only nomination that it won. Oh, so for like one performer. Mm-hmm. I'm going to double-check. In 1990. But I think it was... But I'm pretty sure it was... I mean, I feel like you're right.

I think it was just one. But that's... It sounds like it's a big performance or like a big performance in a person's career. Yes. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Yes. Yeah. Yes. Do we think it's good? I do. Yeah. The performance in the movie? I think both.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, is it big? It's not big. No, that was either eight. Yeah. And that was Robert Loja you're thinking of also.

Yeah. Yeah. He goes through it in this movie. I'll tell you that much. James Con does? It's a good way to put it. He goes through it. Why can't I place this?

I'm doing terribly today. He goes through it, but it's not going to be a nomination for him. Right. So, oh, it's misery. It's misery. Oh, my God. I was wondering why it was taking you that long. Listeners are going to be yelling at me.

I'm sorry, y'all. That's the fun of it. That's the fun of the I-M-D. All right. Well, if the listeners are going to be yelling at me, Roxanna, for the one that I have picked for you, you might be yelling at me. Yeah, I mean, this is probably going to be, like, extremely terrible, like, for me.

Well, as the conversation went, I don't get the impression you enjoy this person, or you are just annoyed by their regular presence. Is it going to be Jessica Chastain, or is it going to be Caleb Landry Jones? It's Adam Driver. Motherfucker. Sorry. Adam Driver, who is of the Jeff Nichols universe

because he was, we don't talk about it, in Midnight Special. Yeah. Okay. Adam Driver in his face. Um, I mean, I think marriage story. Correct, marriage story. Okay. I mean, part of me would love for it be to the report, but I feel like it's not.

It's not the report, no. Okay. God. Adam Driver has been in too many films. So yes to marriage story No to the report I mean I feel like House of Gucci is too soon House of Gucci is too soon

That's incorrect Okay I'll give you your years It is 2015, 2016 2016, 2017 That's horrible Chris I'm sorry I will say Once you get one of these

You're going to get the other one It does go big small big is the other thing. It's like... I mean, is there a Star Wars in there? Maybe. God damn it. 2015.

Big, small, big. Is it... Oh, my God. Do I even remember what they're called? Is Force Awakens in there? Force Awakens. That's the 2015 movie. Okay.

So then 2016 was probably... Last Jedi Last Jedi is 2017 So the remaining one is 2016 Which is a smaller movie Released by Amazon And it played Cannes in competition Oh is it Patterson

It's Patterson Which I still haven't seen And people tell me I'm like I think you would really like it I think you would like Patterson a lot I think you would like it a lot And goal shift is really good in it Goll Shift Farahawk

Yes And I don't know, if it played Cannes and didn't win the Palm Dog, then that was an injustice. I'm pretty sure it didn't win the Palm Dog. Good, because there is good dog stuff in that movie, I will say. I'm sorry, can we go back to them? It won the Palm Dog. There are two Star Wars movies in his Known for. Yeah, and none for the Rise of Skywalker.

50% Star Wars? That's crazy to me. That is crazy. Who picks the Known for on IMDB? The algorithm is a serious and elusive. Okay. So it's not like Adam Driver's people or like you should only be known for. I have heard that it is possible to get crashed.

This is why we thought Glenn Close is known for for a long time was just fatal attraction. Wow. Okay. Yeah. But I feel like most of them don't do that. Like it does like the algorithms fingerprints can be felt in a lot of these. I feel like much more so than I just feel like so many of them

I'm like if that's the actor picking these then why? Yeah I'm so surprised that like Black Klansman isn't in this or like Logan Lucky like I could see one Star Wars Logan Lucky's so good Thank you for loving Logan Lucky Joe and I are the

Yeah Logan Lucky's great Or even silence Like how is silence not okay You know what I'm TV I got a lot of problems with this Oh man You made me defend Adam Driver.

See? What the hell? Come on. Adam Driver's fine. He's fine. I love Adam Driver. He's just literally everywhere. And I need a little bit of a break.

But, Mom, I love him. Roxana, thank you so much for joining us. This was a complete blast to get to hang out. Yeah, this was super fun. I completely agree. This is very fun. Well, definitely come back to us soon.

That's our episode. If you want more of the sad of Oscar Buzz, You can check out the Tumblr at this at oscarbuzz.tumpler.com. You should also follow us on Twitter at underscore oscar underscore buzz. Roxana, tell our listeners where they can find more of you. Oh, sure. You can find my work at Fulcher, and you can find me on Twitter at Roxana underscore Haddadi. Apologies. Normally, I'm just like thirst tweeting into the abyss. Not me, not pictures of me. It's me thirstily tweeting toward others.

So, yeah. We are not a podcast that believes in shaming people. for doing so. Any listener that would be mad at you for that is not a listener of ours. Thank you guys so much. Joe, tell us where, tell the listeners where they can find you. Yeah, I am on Twitter and letterboxed, both at Joe Reed, read spelled R-E-I-D. And I am on Twitter and letterbox at Krispy File. That's F-E-I-L. We would like to thank Kyle Cummings for his fantastic artwork and

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