This Had Oscar Buzz - 215 – Beatriz at Dinner (with Jorge Molina)

Episode Date: October 17, 2022

On the eve of the return of The White Lotus, we’re taking a look at the Mike White oeuvre with returning guest Jorge Molina and 2017′s Beatriz at Dinner. Starring our beloved Salma Hayek as a holistic masseuse trapped at a toxic dinner party held by her wealthy clients, the film debuted at Sundance and … Continue reading "215 – Beatriz at Dinner (with Jorge Molina)"

Uh-oh, wrong house. No, the right house. I didn't get that! We want to talk to Marilyn Hacks. You think healing is hard? Try healing. You can break something in two seconds. It can take forever to fix it.

Sounds like you have a pretty tough job. I think that fate brought us together. For what? I don't know. Revenge, maybe. You think that you can hide up here behind these gates and that everything is going to be all right? The world does need your feelings.

It needs jobs. It needs money. It needs what I do. The world doesn't need you. Doug is a great philanthropist. Shut up, Goth. I chew-wa-well. Okay, you're done. Sorry.

Hello, and welcome to the This Had Oscar Buzz podcast, the only podcast recorded from a sailboat lodged in a tree. Every week on This Had Oscar Buzz will be talking about a different movie that once upon a time had Lofty Academy Award aspirations, but for some reason or another, it all went wrong. The Oscar hopes died, and we're here to perform the autopsy. I am your host, Chris Fyle, and I'm here, as always, with the man who killed my goat, Joe Reed. You cannot prove anything, first of all. second of all you bring up the sailboat lodged in the tree from mud which was our last episode and it struck me during this episode that like there's a world in which mud and beatrice's like cross paths in some way she's in her mango grove and he's in his you know little creek

whatever river, what was the body of water he was in? It was so long. I feel like the next place that he goes he works in the same holistic center as she does and he's like the hot new masseuse. Sure. Yes. That makes sense. That makes a ton of sense. That would work. And I think they would get

along is the other thing that I think. More than not. I feel like the things that she despises about the people that we see in this movie are not mud. Mud. Mud is a different kind of scoundrel, let's say.

Sure, sure. This is me connecting the dots from our previous episode, which we recorded over a month ago, to our current episode, which we were recording tonight. We are trying to grease the wheels. We are trying to get back in the swing of things. To help us do that, though, we have a special guest, Jorge Molina's back.

Yay! Hi, guys. I am crashing your dinner with my mom. It's almost as if we, like, picked you up in Toronto, and we're like, kid in, bitch, we're going shopping. Yeah. And it's almost like I had, when you asked me, do you have a movie in less than three seconds, I said, yes, I do. Curious that you ask. Did you mention it on air the last time we recorded that you would know?

No, no, no. I've just been, it's been simmering. Sure. Yes. I, you know, that's what I think about a lot. Like, if I were to talk about something else in this podcast, what would it be? Well, and it's time. We haven't done very many Salma Hayek episodes, which is surprising.

I mean, she was one of our inaugural actresses with Ask the Dust, which was episode like three. Three or four, yeah, honestly. Yeah, well, and I know she's a patron saint of the podcast, and she's a patron saint of my household. So, you know, it's the few opportunities that we, that there are to talk about any Oscar boss that any pictures of her have, I will jump on. I really should have a Salma Hyac candle to have in my, uh, in my apartment somewhere just to get the energy right. I do not have a candle. I do, and I think I did mention this on air last time. I do have a picture of the 2002 best actress nominees, uh, right here. Is it from the Oscar luncheon? Yeah, yeah. I'll show. Oh my God. This is a visual medium, but I do have.

Oh, I love that so much. Yeah, it's for the listeners at home. It's, yeah, it looks like a waiting room chair from a dentist. And they're all, they're all about to go to a board meeting to pitch, like, what the grant money should be used for. Right, right, yes, yeah, yeah. And I love it so much, so, you know. I always misremember. It takes me, like, half a second to realize it,

but I always misremember Merrill as being part of that particular lineup. Well, she was, just not in that category. Just spiritually, she was in that category. In my mind, I'm thinking based off of what their roles are, what they are pitching in this board meeting to be using the grant funds for. Obviously, Renee Zellweger says that the grant should be used to fund new careers for ex-convicts. Of course, of course. Julianne Moore is funding anti-racist literature within the community.

But also wants to like start a garden, like a community garden of some sort. An anti-racist garden. An anti-racist community garden. Salma wants like rehab or we have through painting. Right. Yeah, we have center through painting. Right, right. Art therapy.

Art therapy. Art therapy. Diane Lane wants a different kind of art therapy. Sexual therapy, but also maybe refunding the MTA. And that was going to say, she wants, like, public transit. Yeah. And Nicole Kidman is mental health services.

Oh, I was going to say, or no surgery. You know, right, a nose job. But also, she's very practical. She's like, we need pens and paper. We need state, like, we need support. And ginger. I was thinking all five of them are pitching together, not like, individual. Oh, no, it's shark tank.

No, it's, it's shark tank. Yeah, yeah. It's shark thing. Okay. Yeah, I love that. Every nominee should pitch. Wait, that should be. ABC, for all the fuckery that ABC's tried to pull with the Oscars, you would think that they would have thought of making each acting category, each category actually, because the ones you really need to jeze up or not the acting categories,

turn them all into Shark Tank. They all walk on stage, and they all have to pitch. Well, and now that Gwyneth is part of Shark Tank, like, have her. Wait, what? Yeah, she's just. joining Shark Tank, babe. As like an adjunct, right? Yeah, I don't know if it will be like a one episode thing or is she's committing to the bit,

but yeah, she's joining. Committing to the bit is honestly one of Gwyneth's, like, if you pulled out her resume, like special skills, like committing to the bit really is like at the top. Yeah, it really is. God bless. All right, we're not talking about Gwyneth, though. We were talking about, as I was going to say. The amazing Salma Hayek.

Salma Hayek, who, besides Ask the Dusk, the movie that everybody definitely remembers, that we did way the hell back in 2018. Is that when we started the Colin Farrell bet, by the way? I don't think it's that old, but... Listeners go back to the... Yeah, I was going to say... This is why, once again, we need an intern to, like, sift through all of our episodes and, like, catalog them or something.

But I was going to say the only other episode that we've done with Future... ring a Salma Hayek movie is their episode on 54, which you could not find two more opposite poles of the Salma Hayek experience than her role in 54 and her role in Beatrice's at dinner. I think I dream that you guys had done Savages, but you haven't. We've just talked about it a lot. Joe just loves Sam. Because I love it so much.

I think making the Oscar Buzz case for Savages would be tough, even though it is from a two-time best director winner in Oliver. stone. Do you think which one came first? Savages? Savages came before this. Do you think she kept the wig

from Savages and just pulled it out of the trunk? And just pulled it back. And didn't even like, you know, the bangs are the same. So she's like, ah, I have something that I took. One of my favorite shots in this movie. And we'll talk about

the sort of like soft de-glam of Selma Hyac in this movie, which I think is like an interesting topic. when it's decided that she's going to stay for dinner and then Connie Britton's character makes that like fantastically like passive aggressive

microaggression of just like do you want to change into something else we can get you something or or not or stay where you are a blouse which she's already wearing a goddamn and Beatrice walks in front of a mirror and looks at herself and like makes the decision to tuck her shirt in

which makes her look even dumpier? Yeah, no. Like, you know what I mean? And it's just, it's, it's, it's a perfect, because it's a great touch. I mean, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's filled with, like, little moments of her just, like, little moments, exactly. Doing, you know, moments that only she can see it.

I mean, spoiler, but, like, I love this movie. I loved this movie. I loved this movie. I loved this movie. My appreciation for it has only grown. I went, I wrote about it, like, kind of several times when I was at my previous job because I, like, it was, like, like, it was. It was available on streaming fairly early because it was an early year release and whatnot. And I just found more and more reasons to write about it. I wrote about it on its own merits. I wrote about it in like cross talk with Brad's status in sort of this like Mike White piece that I did. And just I was very, very taken with it.

Also, like if you go back and read it, it's like, tell me that Trump just got elected. and traumatized me without telling me that Trump had just got like to traumatize me I'm sure we'll get into it trademark of you

but yeah this is very like Trump era movie like yes movies need to talk about the moment

yeah exactly it's like it's like right after the year so it's which I don't think I mean again I think in the moment

it's it's probably higher than like a little bit of retrospect and it's like I think a lot of it was projected more than... Well, he was definitely... I think a lot of the themes are much go beyond that, I guess.

Right. Than just... Well, Mike White started writing it before Trump was elected. I read somewhere that his inspiration for, at the very least, the John Lithgow character, was the Cecil the Lion thing. Yes, I remember reading that, too. Yeah. But I think this movie said the epitome of, like, let's project our feelings.

on Trumpism into every piece of media we are watching that kind of prevailed those couple of years after his election and this was kind of like yeah I mean I also love this movie I watched this movie three times in theaters um damn yeah you win you yeah I watched it here and twice and then because it wasn't released in Mexico until like December of that year yeah so when I was home for the holidays I took my parents to watch it oh fantastic and yeah it's also like 80 minutes. I was going to say it's a very quick. It's a very quick watch and it gets to the point and

it's it's cringe humor but in a way that like I find it's very kind of not breezy actually but like the it's it's not this like heavy lift of an emotional

intellectual kind of a thing where it's just like oh I really got to like you know put my discourse hat on or whatever. It's just, it's a lot, so much of the humor is in, as a lot of Mike White stuff, and Miguel Artetta too, I would say, is small reactions and giving the actors sort of room to say a line in a particularly, like, perfect way. And I don't think it asks much of the viewer also. I think it's, it's broad enough and definitely, it's not a subtle movie, I will, like, with his themes, you

know, and, like, what it tries to say. Sure, right. So I think it's just, I think the subtlety and nuance comes from other places, like the performances and, like, a lot of it, that you, it's kind of, like, spelled out for you in a way that you can just, like, sit and simmering the cringe and just let it wash over you. But, I mean, even the thing about, like, it's not a subtle movie, I mean, I think you kind of compare it to a movie that did much better than this did from the same. year that is also not subtle, but I think doesn't succeed with some of these themes is

three billboards. Like three billboards tends to be a hammer with some of this stuff. And three billboards has lines like this movie does that like it just is kind of a cudgel. Whereas like Beatrice saying try healing something that's harder is not as much of a like it packs a punch but it's not like they don't they're not heavy-handed with it oh of course not i guess like allows this movie to stand up and and i think a lot of it is like the i think it knows the characters are archetypes and it just like like it knows that oh this is just stand-ins from for everything is it's almost like fable-like i mean there is like a lot of imagery that you know especially the cuts with the river and all that that it makes it seem like oh this is this is this is

This is more a story being told than, like, a straightforward, like, narrative, you know. It's, well, it's funny because I think the movie doesn't ever approach the idea of, like, a magical person of color who has come here to, like, teach people things. And yet, there is something about the Beatrice's character that is, and I think it's about the movie as a whole and the way it dips into, like, flashbacks and at the end, like, what is exactly happening at the end and there's a little bit of if not magical realism to it but like if you told me that like the person she was calling on the phone

was never there like that would make that would make sense to me because it's a sense she's like literally like calling into this memory that she can't seem to access well now that you say about like the the magical person of color

this movie kind of says like she actually can't fix everything like at the end of the of the day she gives up. She's like, fuck, I can't do it. Like, it's too much. I would even add to that, like, some of the criticisms I've seen towards the way that Beatrice is characterized in terms of, like, the, like, spiritualism, healing stuff. I do think some of the cringe humor comes from there.

I don't necessarily, I think the movie thinks that she is a little hippie-dippy, even though it is on her side. And that's one of the best things about the movie also is that it allows. her to be that while not like devaluing her as a person for it. Of course. Well, and a lot of it, like, I can see, because I was thinking this, I'm like, what does this look like, oh, what this would look like in a page and what Salma is actually doing with it? And you're right, if you took someone

with like less, that didn't take the character like as maybe introspective or internal and did go with like the hippie-dippy kind of thing. Yeah. With the exact same dialogue, it's a completely you know, different character. Well, and you can sort of the movie doesn't shy away from playing on

the sort of man who came to dinner of it all, right? Where like there is somebody at dinner here who is an unexpected guest and she's not like anybody else and is sort of the wellspring

of a lot of chaos around it. And you like there are a couple moments where like for as much as they all play despicable characters like she'll be like three minutes deep into a story about an octopus when she was a kid

or whatever and like there'll be a reaction shot to like J. DuPlaas sort of looking at Chloe Sevenye and being like like this is still going, huh? And it's really funny and I think that's one of the like Mike White Miguel Arteta strengths too.

I didn't remember like how funny this movie is at the moment, and like how much it is on just one-liners from the other people. Yeah. It's a really good movie, guys. It's a good movie. Good movie. Let's, since we're kind of getting into the movie a little bit, let's set the stage for

the 60-second plot description. Once again, listeners, we are here talking about Beatrice at dinner, directed by Miguel Artetta, written by Mike White. We will get into their partnership, starring Salma Hayek, John Lithgow. Connie Britton, Chloe Seventy, Amy Lindekker, Jay Dupless, Transparent Reunion. Did you call him Jay Depples? That's very funny. What?

Jay Deblis, that's his name. It's Duplas, right? It's Duplas. Duplas, Deplas. I am from the Midwest. I pronounce things. Sorry, you're about to get to the most important calendar. Oh, yeah, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry.

I'm not sure if this performer gets the and credit, but am John Early. Should get the end credit Star making performance Where was John Early in his career at that point? Had search parties started by then? I think so Because it took a while between the early seasons And the HBO Max season

So let me just check that I can Google that Because I remember I had seen John Early At like a comedy show Around maybe like 20? Search party started 2016. Oh, okay.

So, yeah, the year before. I had seen him at a comedy show in like 2012, 2013, maybe something like that. And he had done that his, one of his like recurring bits, I guess, was this. He would talk about how he had created a fan page for Tony Collette when he was younger. Yes. And it's the, it was the funniest goddamn thing. Yeah. And it was one of those things where it's like.

too, not from clock watchers, yeah. Which was, yeah, it was perfect. No, but I remember because he said that on Seth Myers. And then he did like a press, a very small press tour for when this movie was being released. Yeah. And he also went to Seth Myers and he, the bit that they did was like he was like a star, the star of the movie

and they would just show clips from the movie. And it's just him like putting, putting a halibut in front of like Connie Britton and you know they were just like it's good and they scrapped it from YouTube you can't find that interview anymore so because I went to I went to it all the time

oh that's too bad because he talks about like working with Salmine like how she told him he had a great ass and all of that it's a great piece of media which they scrapped from the internet

I was trying to find the little like connections between actors and this right because obviously Connie Britton goes on from this and is in the White Lotus, which is another Mike White production. Amy Landecker and J. DuPlaas played siblings

on Transparent, which was still a going concern at that point in 2017. They were both great on that show. They were both great on that show. The tragedy about Transparent is like so many

people were so good on that show. And for as like extra as it could be or whatever, it was often really, really, really good and moving, and it's just like, ah, it's such a, I don't know, bummer seems like the wrong tone to say that, but like...

A stage musical is soon coming to LA from the creators. Is that true? Oh, that's interesting. It is. But Beatrice's a dinner premiered at the Sunday as... Oh, sorry, sorry. That's right. We were in the middle of this. We were derailing your

Spiel, Chris. Well, I will say to my defense, this is the literal only chance we'll get to talk about John Early. So, might as well. True, true. And then the film opened limited June 9th of 2017.

Jorge, as our guest, you are charged with giving the 60 second plot description. Are you ready to do so? I have it. I practiced it earlier. It was a few seconds over, but, you know, we'll do our best. Okay. Then you're a 60 second plot description of Beatrice at dinner starts now.

Salma Hayek had a goat, E-I-E-I-O. She also plays Beatrice, a health therapist who believes her mission in life is to help heal all the pain in the world, which she does by listening to the problems of rich white people. As she's giving a massage to Kathy, played by Connie Britton and the Best Panteen SponCon ever, she says that she's been feeling depressed because she believes her neighbor killed her goat. When Beatrice's car leaves her stranded, Kathy invites her to stay over for the dinner they are throwing for Doug Strutt. A real estate magnates to his dad. definitely not a stand-in for Trump. Beatrice tries her best to fit in this group, but the evening

is filled with vapid and degrading conversation. The dinner devolves into a production of Agatha Christie who's afraid of Virginia Woolf, as Beatrice starts to suspect that Doc may be responsible for developing the hotel that displaced her entire town in Mexico. After throwing Doug's phone at him, in a move straight out of real house off the Newport Beach, Beatrice is made to leave, but not before she gets to live her fatal attraction fantasy and imagine stabbing dog. As she has been driven home, she realizes that the world she has been trying so hard to heal, maybe beyond. saving, and she steps out of the car, plus a Virginia Woolf, and walks into the sea, hoping to

swing back to her hometown in Mexico, back to a time where things were simple, and there were no troubles. I've been there, girl. And that's time. Very good. The Pantene commercial point is well taken, Jorge. Her hair, I mean, Connie Britton's hair throughout the years

has really been... She better ensure it. A Marvel and a one-day. Oh, yeah. I think her career has been that a gag in the scary movies where the hair where the hat keeps growing, but it's just her head. It keeps gaining volume. I think a lot of people were surprised by how good she was on the White Lotus,

and all of those people who were... It was here. It was all here. Could not have possibly seen Beatrice at dinner, because if they had, they would not have been surprised, because it is... Oh, yeah. Well... Training Wheels.

This movie is a sequel to Enlighten and a prequel to White Lotus. I think that's like, it's like the midpoint of those two. Yeah. Almost like, I think the final shot of this movie is almost entirely the same as the final shot of the pilot of Enlightened with the water. Yeah. And it's like, it's so... Well, and Enlightened is similar to Beatrice in that, in Beatrice, in Beatrice, she is trying to find a way to, in her own little, you know, corner, find a way to heal. as much of the world as she can

and and sort of finds herself frustrated that the world isn't you know she can't grab onto it as much she can't affect as much change she wants to and that's the plot of Enlightened too except the plot of Enlightened

is also and in Beatrice she finds herself thwarted by other people and in Enlightened Laura Dern finds herself thwarted by herself more than anything else. And it's a really, really interesting through line to take it through. And then you take it to the White Lotus then. And it's like, oh, right. Like, this is now has metastasized into this, like, beautiful, gorgeous vacation setting where everybody is very kind of

passively selfish and horrible. Like, there's very, very little in the White Lotus, like, active villainy, and yet, you know, you're sort of swimming in it at the same time. Oh, yeah. Unless you're Jake Lacey. Right, unless you're Jake Lacey. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Jake Lacey, John Lithgow, Mike White Villains. Yeah. The White Lotus only on HBO, October 30th. I was going to say, season two coming soon. Yeah. I'm excited. I'm excited too. I'm still hesitant what I think about the return of Jennifer Coolidge. Me too. I wish she was playing a different character.

Me too. It would be fun if they're going to make it an anthology show. If it was like Ryan Murphy's side. Yes. You know. Although the one I think I would accept is if she gets Drew Barrymore and she's the victim of season two. Uh-huh. You just want everything to be a murder mystery though, Jorge.

Of course I do. I mean, did you listen to my description? of the movie yeah that's the one thing if she was like this publicized about like oh she's returning and she's the mystery which I don't think that season one needed

but they kind of foolishly tried to keep it under wraps sort of when she was joining the second season so long as we see Tom Hollander eating ass this season

yeah that needs to be the through line that's the through line that someone, or, you know, or Aubrey Plaza, you know, why not, you know. Shake it up however you want to. Yeah. Okay, before we get into the Mike White thing,

I do have to say that I have done the most essential Mike White research in that I have watched the Mike White Survivor season. Yes. In the past week. Mike White, who is an excellent player for most of the game, until he takes his foot off the gas, and... He still should have won.

How... Of that final three... Of that final three, I came... I was very frustrated with Mike through much of that season. I thought he was playing it too passively, and I wanted him to do more. And then by the time we got to the end, I'm like, oh, wait, no, he's sold me. He's actually played the best game of anybody. And by then, it was like, well, no, they're not voting for him.

But they're also not going to vote for a millionaire. No. No. And Angelina, God love her, is the messiest survivor player I have ever seen. Great television. Angelina is so fantastic. And I, like, Mike White cast Alec from that season in the White Lotus for reasons. We all have eyeballs.

We can see why he cast Alex in the White Lotus. And yet, I need him to find creative vehicle for Angelina in some way or capacity. Oh, White Lotus Season 3. She would be perfect. She is the Alexander Dodario. She's everything that you want. Angelina negotiating for more supplies with Jeff Probst is a short film that I would nominate for the Academy Award.

It's so good. It's so good. I am not a survivor gay, so I cannot comment it. I know you both are. I am, however, an amazing race gay. Mike White ran it twice. Because my quarantine project still ongoing, because they're a shitload of seasons

was watching Amazing Race from the Star and Mike White ran it twice with his dad and they were adorable and lovely and I read I studied, not studied I had read some articles or something about Mel White, Mike's dad

when I was in college having no idea of the connection between the two of them that Mel White was came out sort of later in life he was a speechwriter for Jerry Falwell and came out and sort of then started ministering to conservative Christians how they could like ministering a more open and tolerant sort of worldview and you can you know whatever debate the effectiveness of it but seems like a real genuine and like good guy and when Mike White accepted his Emmys this year he

made sort of a stray mention of the fact that his dad isn't doing very well and it really, really made me sad. No, I mean, and the second time they were on the race, there's this moment where, like, you can tell Mal is just trying his best to, like, keep up, but, like, he's obviously physically exhausted, and Mike's just like, Dad, you

don't need to do this. Like, we could, I don't want this to kill you. Like, I, we can, we'll drop out if you want and they, I mean, eventually don't make it as far, but, um, but it's, it's very touching. And no, I mean, and I do, I don't think this is on connected to him as a writer

because I I mean if we I guess we're getting into him but I do and noticing especially this and I think it's even more evident with White Lotus but even with earlier stuff like I do believe his

insight like you can tell he's a reality not just fan but like understands the ins and out of how reality show works because of how how he embeds his characters with a very particular quality of watchability and villainy. That it's like regular, like we were saying, like, it's regular people. But he understands what makes regular people awful.

Yes. And regular people watchable. Yes. And I think it's because he has done, he has been in this environment where, like, people have to act out for the cameras and create drama. It's like this very, like, curated personality. And I think he definitely has taken that into his scripted writing. And I think it's fascinating. His confessionals on Survivor really just kind of hit the nail on the head of who he is

as a writer and as a director, even though he didn't direct the movie that we're talking about. And we'll talk about the partnership with Miguel Artetta. He's like, he has everybody's number to the point where it's like, it's exactly right. he conceivably doesn't like any of these people but like also bears an enormous amount of affection for them at the same time yeah well like if you were to take a camera crew and put it in the dinner of beatrice or at the white lotus like you could get a three-season show like reality show with those people you know and he's very interested i think in the the self that you put forward the self that a character puts forward again, going back to Enlightened, like so much of, my favorite thing about Enlightened is the fact that it's a show about Amy Jellico being at frustrated war with herself, where her inner monologue is gorgeous and beautiful and knows what she needs to do and knows how to express herself and is sort of like heartbreakingly articulate about all of it. And then once Amy's outside of that centered part of herself, she's a bull in a China shop, right? Like she can't help herself. She can't find a way to, you know, channel that pure energy inside of her into something effective.

The other thing I always think about with Mike White is, and it's very early on what he was a writer for freaks and geeks. He had done Chuck and Buck, but one of the things that he had. Directed by Miguel Arteta. Directed by Miguel Arteta. But he also executive produced and created a primetime soap for Fox called Pasadena. that, like, barely lasted half of a season. And it was just this, like, twisty primetime soap with, like, Dana Delaney and Balthazar Getty. It was, like, the first thing Allison Lohman was ever in or whatever.

And it didn't last, but I've always thought about that where, because for a while, I think, especially early on, Mike White was sort of pigeonholed in the same, like, Todd Salons, but not as fucked up kind of niche or whatever. Because Chuck and Buck is awkward. The good girl is what it is, but does have the thornierness to it, also directed by Miguel Arteta. Right. And then, but I was, but I've always held it in my head. It was just like, no, but he's also the kind of person who will, like, write a whole ass primetime soap. You know what I mean?

So it's like, there's, it's not quite as, um, if he is, you know, uh, what's the term I'm looking for? Like, if he just like... holds a contempt for everybody the way that I think a lot of people thought was his vibe for whatever it's not that it's he's critical of all of his characters

but he also loves I don't think it's contempt at all I think it's a deep fascination of like um you know I ask the you know everyone that watches a reality show or like the househouse franchise or like what I don't think anyone

who is fascinated by these people have any much contempt for him. They're like, they're just, like, fascinating to watch and craves to understanding him. And as a writer, I get, I get he wants to, like, dissect kind of what makes those little things tick. Well, and as his career has gone along, the humanist sort of part of him has become more and more enhanced. And the same year as Beatriz is also he, it's not his directorial debut, right? Brad's status. That was his second. Right. Year the dog was his directorial day. Oh, right, you're the dog.

Which is also a very humane, like, story about characters who, like, can't seem to, you know, get out of their own way. Molly Shannon's grieving the death of her dog, right? Right. But Brad's status also in 2017, which is about Ben Stiller, is a sort of middle, middle age, wealthy, but not as wealthy as his college friends, a guy who goes on a college. you know, college tour with his son to Harvard and Tufts. And so much of the movie is about him feeling like he's got to keep up with the Joneses of his college friends, and he's very embittered by it and all. And there's a version of this movie that is, you know, that essentially gives Ben Stiller's character his comeuppance and really, like, sticks it to him for being a jackass. and the way that Mike White writes and directs that movie is it calls Ben Stiller's character out on the carpet for all of that while still having a compassion and humanity towards him that is really like that's my sweet spot right like that's what like really I really really really value in a film and so like obviously Mike White's really become one of my favorite sort of you know filmmaker

and voices in this current landscape. And something I will say I love about him, and actually going through the filmonger, they've also been good arteta. They are not afraid to take a paycheck. Right. They will take a paycheck, and that does not influence their personal,

you know, more passion project. They still have a unique voice, but he will write a screenplay for the emoji movie. He will write the screenplay for the one and only Ivan. Yep. Miguel Arteta will do the Alexander in a horrible, no good, awful, extraordinarily bad day, whatever, you know. Yeah. And I admire that.

Well, this is the thing I was going to bring up about Miguel Arteta because he's also done a lot of television, a lot of really good television, too. He's done some of enlightened. Yeah. But also a lot of films in a way that it's like you can't really pin down, you know, him entirely based off of. of what the whole of his filmography is. And who was it that... Somebody online recently was like, who's an example of...

Oh, Karina Longworth was tweeting about that. Oh, yeah, yeah. It was Karina, who's like, who's a journeyman director that's working today? And Miguel Artetta is a perfect example of that. Yes. Because, like, there are things,

like, especially the collaborations with Mike White that feel like are maybe more personal films, but then he, you know, is constantly working. and across genre, etc. Yeah. Including comedies with Like a Boss, starring Salma Hayek, who is incredible in that not very good movie.

I love that movie. I watched it recently, like earlier this year. I cannot say it's a good movie. It is not a good movie. It's not. But how I feel it will be is, like, queer boys that are like 1112 right now in like 20 years it will be reclaimed as like sure an underrated comedy classic sure yes you know how I mean that's how I feel like because

it's in the conversation around like hocus pocus hocus is not a good movie it is not um but the power of nostalgia is very big and I think like a boss has potential of becoming that Here's my only... 20 years. It's not necessarily a pushback, Jorge, because you're right. But the vector through which people imprinted on Hocus Pocus was that thing was on the Disney Channel... Yeah, you're right. And I worry for the children today that they don't have that...

Entertainment is not funneled to them in that particular way. Oh, 100%. How can they find... find like a boss at some point. I don't know what world you live in that like a boss is ever going to leave Paramount Plus, Joe. Yeah, but are the zoomers on Paramount Plus? Or is it just us who want to watch the good fight and Survivor?

They can call in the zoomers and let us know. Anyway, Salma is demented. I mean, no, that has... I mean, it's Salma. It's Rose Byrne. Is Jennifer Coolidge. is Billy Porter is an incredible and sorry for the spoiler

third act cameo performance by Lisa Kudrow It's a good time It's not good but it's a good time I watched that movie in very early pandemic And I remember Chris you had already seen it And recommended it to me And so I'm watching it and texting you as I watch it

And I'm like And at some point I'm like Oh I realize I was like Her nemesis is going to be someone I realize that too They were building it up so much Don't tell me who it is But like this is going to be something

And I'm like I'm bracing myself And it was the future Yeah yeah Anyway That's the plug Yeah If you're like sick or like Yes

Are in bed like It's also like 80 minutes Yeah exactly short It's yeah And that's fun There was a academy Not necessarily I don't think this was too early

For the Academy Museum some sort of Academy-affiliated Q&A session that I found on YouTube today with Salma Hayek and Miguel Arteta. And it was as many Salma Hayek interviews are, especially when she's promoting something that she

really values and believes in and also like she's somebody who knows when she's promoting something for an award and knows how to imbue it with everything you need to do to promote it for an award. So she was, she had the

not necessarily the pan's labyrinth swell of emotion to her but was very very into it but also so it's her and McGillardetta and she's talking about how he directed her on the set and how he would say things to her like she would start a take and he would call cut

and then he would be like I knew everything that was going on with your character by looking in your eyes. And don't do that. And she's like, okay. And they would do the next take. And then he would cut. And he goes, and now I can't see anything in your eyes. She's like, so, but this, and she's telling the story very like, and it's obviously there's a lot of fondness between them. But like, it's a, it's a very cute thing. But I'm prefacing that to say that this. And I need to see Frida again at some point because

it's been very, very many years. This is probably my favorite Salma Hayek performance. She's an incredible Yeah, she was on my best actress ball up this year. Yeah. Yeah, she's really, really fantastic. And I think it's in very ways

and not, like the opposite type of performance from Frida. Yes. You know, I was thinking how Frida's very much a star vehicle and this is almost like an anti-star vehicle in a way. Like, what is asked of her to do is to, you know,

pull it all back, like, literally in many ways. And, um, I'm so glad it exists because, you know, we can talk about, like, her persona and the type of role she's been taken and it's, you know,

usually she's big and, and known because, and she's good at it and, and it's out there. And I'm, I'm glad she can prove that now. She can carry the weight of the world in her eyes just as easily. Yeah. Well, and I, I mentioned this before, that this is sort of a soft de-glam, where for so many years, especially in the early aughts, there was this trend of beautiful, glamorous actresses, going for awards by stripping all that away, and we're going to do no makeup, and sometimes we're going to be, you know, Charlie Serran and Monster, where we're actually going to put on, like, prosthetics and, you know, whatever, the less said about.

the nose prosthetic on Nicole Kidman in the hours the better, but that also got like, you know, wrapped up in it. And I'm trying to think of like other, you know, examples of this, but there were so many of them, like literally so many of them, especially throughout the odds. And I was watching. I mean, Salma was lumped into that too for Frida because she wore a unibrow. Yeah. Right. Even though that's a crazy assertion to make because she is, as Jorge said, such a star. And she's like harnessing so much of that like like Frida Kahlo in that movie is just this like you know bright burning you know flame to which everybody is yeah she's sexy she's sexual she's you know yeah but I'm trying to think of like more recently like

is that still as much of a thing anymore and I'm going through the sort of more recent best actress nominee and I don't know if it's de glum but I mean I mean, I'm just thinking, like, Julianne Moore and Still Alice, and it's less de-glam and more, like, everyday woman, you know? Right. More like, um... Well, I think we're also in a... Well, really, it's like biopic era also. Right.

That's the thing. Well, yeah, it's less de-glam and more transformation, right? Right. Well, and also, we're in a bit of a stretch where... because for a while there it was a lot of like very young you know magazine cover like actresses who were getting the Oscar for doing something more unglamorous and now we're in a stretch of like Francis McDormand twice Olivia Coleman for the favorite which are not glamorous characters like but like Francis McDormand doesn't do de glam because she's not glam like that's not her brand that's not her I guess that's what I mean more with like everyday woman drag, you know, like both of the Francis, Jennifer Lawrence and Silver Linings, Brie Larson in Room, it's like they're not de-glamming or glamming, they're just being kind of, you know.

And even like Kate Blanchett in Blue Jasmine, which is a very sort of... The sweatiest performance. Yes, but, well, and it's one of those things where it's like, there's glamour to the acting style, I think, that she brings to that the whole, you know, Blanche Dubois of it all. Listen, that Chanel's suit was glamorous at one point, but by the end of the movie, it is not.

Exactly, but that's, you know, that's sort of but I, I, it did strike me with, you know, that the de-glamming of Salma Hayek for Beatriz at dinner is not ostentatious, and it's not sort of

drawing attention to itself. Yeah. It's just she's this character and it's a point in the movie like obviously like that scene that I mentioned where she tucks her shirt in whatever and obviously when you know all the wealthy folk show up and what they're dressed in and there is definitely a visual you know juxtaposition between her and them

and yet this movie isn't look at like you would never write an article about like look at everything that Salma Hayek had to put herself through, to put herself in the shoes of this character. The whole Brendan Fraser of the whale thing. Right, right, right. And I wonder if that hurt her chances to get nominated for this because it's not such an ostentatious transformation.

It is, Jorge, as you mentioned, like, it's in her eyes. It's in her demeanor. It's in her, you know, the way she sort of, you know, speaks in this kind of thing. And this is a strong year. 2017, I will say, is a strong year for best actress. Francis McDormand wins for three billboards. Sally Hawkins is nominated for the shape of water. Margot Robbie for I-Tanya.

Sertia Ronan for Lady Bird. Merrill Streep for the Post. The Post. I remember, I always remember for that picture they all took together after Francis won hugging at the... I remember it when... Margot Robbie crying. Francis won, and she was... But she's gearing up for her inclusion writer speech.

And she's asking people to stand. And she just goes, Merrill, if you stand, everybody else will stand. But you could see, like, and they were all sort of seated near each other, right? Because it was like Margo and Sertion. It's how I remember when I take my very regular Sporkel quizzes and see how many best actress nominees I can remember. It's how I remember that one as I sort of like,

is just, like, right, like, there was, like, Sally was there, and then Margot Robbie was right in front of her. And, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a really strong lineup. I would definitely probably put, you know, Salma among them. I don't, I probably would take out Margo Robbie, but, like, I don't hate I-Tanya the way a lot of people seem to hate I-Tanya, and I think she's actually quite good in that. Yeah, I'm an I-Tanya defender, actually quite like that movie a lot.

she's very good in it yeah um yeah it's tough because i out of those i mean i haven't revisited three billboards but uh just knowing where things would go i i don't know i'd say i'd probably kick out francis and put up uh saw mine instead um i can see that too even though i do like i am also i'm soft on three billboards like i am i am the uh the uh the weak spot in the in the in the in the defenses against three billboards uh and i actually do think she's uh really fantastic there it is one of those like if we knew that nomad land was coming was yeah we could have given this one to any of the other or four and it would be sure um well it's also the rare um best actress here where the majority of them are from best picture nominees the only

one who isn't is margotrib yep um and i tanya i think definitely shapes the race as well you know I, Tanya, definitely could have been a best picture nominee with, like, very, very little alteration to that. Like, the wind blows a different way, and that's a best picture nominee. I'm trying to bring up my list of, like, who else was sort of floating around in 2017 in Best Actress. I may have. Because I don't usually do. Well, obviously, Jessica Chastain and Molly's game, which I'm only being half facetious

when I say that, because she's genuinely phenomenal in that movie. I have... Golden Globe nominee. I think Judy Dench for Victoria and Abdul, I believe, was Bafton nominated to, and maybe Scyg. That was, of course, the year of Phantom Thread. So you had Vicky Creeps who was not really showing up anywhere, but was great in that movie for as much as I don't love that movie. That movie arrived very, very late, too. But that was like the year of Kristen Stewart and Personal Shopper.

And also on my ballot. Emma Stone was Globe nominated for Battle of the Sexes Of course, Jennifer Lawrence and Mother That was the year of Anne Hathaway and colossal Nicole Kidman in Killing of a Sacred Deer Melanie Linsky And I don't feel at home in this world anymore Florence Pugh and Lady Macbeth

I had Rebecca Spence and Princess Sid on my list pretty high up Did Yellow Vega in a fantastic woman, Rebecca Hall in Professor Marston and the Wonder Women. Also a great call. Just a really, really tremendous, tremendous year for lead actress performances. And, you know, trying to call five from that is really tough. I do like any year that best actress and best picture coincide as strongly as they did this year, because it is very rare.

So, you know, we think, we're thankful for that. Yeah, but I don't think she ever really stood a chance. Unfortunately. Which is why I'm glad. I was going to say, which is why I'm glad she got the spirit nomination. Yeah, I was delighted that she got that. Yeah, because it was an early movie, opened June. It didn't ever really got any traction.

Yeah. I mean, if you think about a lot of the movies, too, especially the movies that, like, tried to make some type of, you know, not like you're ever attempting zeitgeist, but, like, the zeitgeist movies were all, like, big statement movies, whereas this one is a much more nuanced movie. There's something about, like, Oscar is probably always going to see Mike White as caustic, even though I think that's not a word any of us on this conversation would use to

describe this movie. Right. Because I think the same thing that we've said about best actress could be said for Best Original Screenplay this year, too, because, like, that's very best picture-heavy. Jordan Peel. And that was just like, wins. That was never not going to go to either Greta or Jordan, you know, like that's the winner. And I would argue that it probably was never not going to go to Jordan Peel now that we're

on the other side. We had this exact argument like three episodes ago. Yeah, yeah. Right. Where I was like Lady Bird was. just lucky to get the nominations. But whatever the other nominees, like, it was always going to be there. I am curious, though now with the White Lotus success, if that gives Mike White's some degree that like whatever next movie he does, that gains some sort of traction, like, if he

will be taken more, like, it's very possible. It's like leading him into the, oh, okay, you are actually, right, you can join us, you know, kind of thing. I think the kinds of movies he makes are still often small for Oscar and yet I do think it certainly you know it helps his cause in that way plus we'll see how many seasons of White Lotus he ends up doing too right exactly

we sort of breezed past Chuck and Buck though and I did want to sort of revisit that because that is kind of the you know if not the er text of this movie certainly of the Miguel Arteta Mike White professional relationship, right? That is a movie that was Sundance, right?

Like, that's almost certainly had to have been a Sundance sensation. Probably, yeah. I'm trying to bring that up because... It's also, like, the early digital video independent movement, too, where it's like, even though that's a great movie, it's still always going to look like shit. It looks like shit. Of that era of movies that were shot on digital video.

Well, and they were, you know, the filmmakers, you know, were, you know, proud that their movies looked like shit, too, because it meant that they were, you know, you know, real and independent and that kind of thing. What, what's your all experience with when did you see Chuck and Buck? Did you see it back in 2000? Did you see it later? Do you like that movie? Do you, do you? I've always had a little bit of a distance from that movie that I feel like makes me a little less cool. I think it's a good movie

I didn't I'm not like high Hosanas about the movie the way that some people are I think I watched it for the first time in the pandemic or like right before it but yeah it's a good movie I mean like the other thing about that movie is Mike White performs in it too

he's the lead character and Mike White is a great actor too but yeah we probably won't see him as a lead again he doesn't see don't want to do it. That's one of those movies where I think

90% of other movies would have left it as a subtext. What actually is going on there, right? That he's in love with his childhood friend and is trying to sabotage his relationship and yada, yada, yada. And

I think part of what made Chuck and Buck stand out was that it actually you know, went to the play that the subtext was, you know, pointing towards, right? Where all of a sudden it was, you know, out there and explicitly out in the open. And I've always had a little bit of like, because again, early Mike White, I do think is more caustic. Certainly this is maybe his most caustic movie, right?

That feels like it has, if not a harshness towards its main character, a little bit of like, this like he's such a disaster right he's so broken and it doesn't seem like there's a path back from the brokenness whereas i feel like as mike white's career has gone along his characters feel like they have more of a path back from their brokenness if that makes sense yeah i suppose So, I mean, it's been a while since I've seen this movie, but the fact that the next one is the good girl, I'm not sure I, like, agree wholeheartedly with what you're saying, but I get with what you're saying. In what way? The good girl, I mean, like, there is some warmth to that movie, if I'm remembering it correctly, and that's more of like a character. It's more like look at this sad sack than it is, you know.

Yeah. I've never liked The Good Girl is the problem. I think that's the other thing. It's just like I've never, I don't know, I never really latched onto that one for as much as it felt like, again, that was. We need to do an episode on it. God, I was, that was really hardcore into my, like, I'm going to get really into indie movies era, right? And everything was set up for me to really love that movie because it was not only Jennifer, for Aniston, but it was

Jake Gyllenhaal, who was like the it boy of the moment, and then Zoe DeCinell, who I loved from Almost Famous. Of course, yes. And I was, and I remember watching it and being like, kind of frustrated that I didn't sort of, you know, go for it as much as I did. And I don't know, maybe I'm just

sort of like chalking up my own, maybe I was the one who sort of had to grow to, you know, appreciate those kinds of movies. And maybe I can appreciate Mike White more now, because I've seen so many other things, but it's just a fascinating career. Sorry, Jorge, you were going to say. Oh, I was going to say, I actually have never seen The Good Girl. It, I think I was too young when it came out to.

Okay, all right. It would have been in the O2 Best Actress Ways when Salma was nominated. Well, yes, but I came into a lot of it later. You know, I did it. As per my last conversation. should my Oscar origin stories a little bit later than that. You know, you can get me out of your house for being too young. I will stab you in the neck in my head before, but that's fine.

Wait. Okay, let's talk about the ending then. Okay. Because the ending is incredibly divisive of this movie. And I feel like the way that it ends where you have this fantasy sequence and then like you're kind of, forced to interpret what you think happens next. And I think you described it beautifully in your 60-second plot description. How do you guys feel about the ending?

I like it. I defend. It's not defend. It's not like I'll fight someone for it. But I think it's... I don't think it's meant to be interpreted literally. Um, you know, I think it's very, um, like, I think the emotion behind it of like her kind of giving up a little and being defeated and being like, like, fuck what, what, what, what is this what I'm trying to do with, with my, um, life and, and, and just being pummeled by, by this encounter, I'm being defeated. And I think her instinct is to, like, run away to the comfort she kind of knew and to a place where, where everything was okay.

And, you know, that's also what the song she sang to the people was about is, as she described it as, you know, remembering when things were simple, but also acknowledging that things aren't anymore. Yeah. So, yeah. So I think, like I described it earlier, I think it's almost like a fable or like almost very taleish. that I don't think it's literal that she maybe walked into the sea and like, you know, whoever it goes, but like emotionally, that's

kind of where she went by the end of it. Well, there's that moment where Connie Britton's character says to the other guests describing Beatrice and is like she's a literal saint, right? Like she's... And I think a lot of the magical realist

sort of hues of this movie feel like they're pointing towards this thing where as a quote-unquote saint, she's being tested, right? Like if she's a saint, if she's this, like, saintly person, and all of a sudden now she's being confronted by the limits of the good works that she's done. And the, you know, the limits of it are this Lithgow guy. And the fantasy of stabbing him in the neck is literally her going back on,

on the one thing that she said that was so impactful, which is that like try healing something instead of killing something. Killing something is easy. And obviously there's parallels to when he talks about like you have to like wait and stock out your prey and whatever. And like there's

you know, Beatrice is in the hallway just sort of like waiting for her moment to pounce or whatever. And she sees that like now her instinct is to kill somebody to make things better. Like that she has reached, she has reach the limits of healing, and now, you know, to heal she has to kill. And then, you know, so now it

almost, remember that part in the Fellowship of the Ring where Galadriel? I don't. Shut up. The, I pass the test and now I'll go into the, you know, diminish and go into the West. And this feels like, well, you know, Beatriz feels like she failed the test, right? Because she or her instinct was to, you know, to kill this guy. And as a result, then she, if not literally, like, walks to her death immacy, at least sort of surrenders herself to this idea that, like, oh, maybe, maybe the, the solution to all of this is to sort of return to that simplicity. Yeah. I see what I, for me, I don't think she.

I think she definitely had the thought of killing. I don't think she actually carried it through. And I think that makes a difference. I think that I think the fact that she stopped it and that it actually didn't, even though she wanted to. Yeah. I don't know if I necessarily agree that she failed the test that you're saying. I think the fact that she may have thought it, but she didn't carry it through kind of still speaks to her integrity and her beliefs. But I think it's shaking.

makes her. I think it's... Oh, 100%. I was going to say. It's still... Like, it still shows her that it may be only for nothing, even if, you know, even as long as she wanted to. And if she stood, you know, her ground of, like, I'm not going to... Even if I want to fucking murder this guy I'm not going to, that still doesn't mean that this whole thing didn't, like, completely deflate her.

Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. I just kind of feel like it ultimately... forces you to grapple with some of what the movie is saying, what some of its themes are in a way that I don't know why I was on one

in my mind comparing this to three billboards so much in this movie. But that movie that like does a lot to oversimplify a lot of these themes, you know, even if it's like ends on this note that's supposed to be

ambiguous, but really it's like everything else before it has been much more simplified than I think things are and things are allowed to be uncomfortably nuanced in Beatrice, I think this ending kind of allows it to be that. And it also prevents this movie from feeling like it's just some chamberpiece where people are talking for an hour and 15 minutes, you know, that there are bigger themes at play than, you know, what's like a staged play, basically. I think doing something that's a little bit more

perhaps distancing for the audience that might be actually ambiguous or be, you know, much more allegorical or like you mentioned not to be taken literally forces us to sit in the discomfort

of, you know, what we've already been presented. Yeah. Right. And I think, I mean, to your point of like it does, it kind of avoids the stagingness of it. I mean, even, I'm kind of surprised by how it uses, you know, composition and camera movements and point of view to really kind of like, sorry, there's a helicopter. I don't know. Can you hear it? What's that?

Can you hear a helicopter coming? Oh, no, but. It might pick up on your solo video, but it's fine. I've had enough sirens go by in the background of my audio track. Grittiness. But no, also, like, the direction of it is really, like, I don't know, there are a lot of, like, shots and sequences where it's like, oh, fuck, like, it does a good job of, like, visualizing a lot of what it wants to say, the costuming, the way she's slouching, well, these women are wearing these, like, whatever inch high heels and are in their makeup and, um. All of those other actors, too, are so on point with everything. every single time Amy Landecker says anything.

It's the exact right tone. It's so funny. I forgot how funny she is in this movie. Well, and she's also that exact sort of like, what's the opposite of it? Like sour spot, I guess, instead of a sweet spot, between somebody who's an overt asshole and somebody who is trying to project this air of, you know, geniality, right? where every time there's some sort of like moment of tension in the air, right? She'll say something to diffuse it.

But then by the same token, any time that Beatriz will advance some sort of really altruistic notion, she'll be there to like undercut it a little bit, right? And she'll talk about, you know, when Beatrice is out of the room, she'll be like, well, we're not like monsters or anything like that. And she'll, you know, she's, you know, the banality of evil kind of. The way she says, like when Beatrice comes in and she asks that she can spend a night, or Connie Britton informs her, like, tells her you can spend a night. The way Amy Landekar, when she leaves, it's like, she has a goat.

The way she delivers that line. It's that immature, like, mean girl shit, like, high school residual kind of thing. And she does it super well. Chloe 70 is a little bit like a milder version of it, her. character, but, like, she does it really well. J. Duplas, obviously, is, like, you know, was born for this moment, essentially. Yeah. Yeah.

It's all really, really... No, yeah. And, I mean, and I want... I mean, we talked a little bit about Connie Britton, but, like, I... To compare it to... It made me think a lot about Roma in a lot of ways, this movie. Especially her character in this way, and it's a very... I mean, Mexican, like Latin American kind of sensibility, but I think translate very well into this, of this sentiment of like, oh, the help are actually our family. They are part of us, part of our system.

We treat them as equals, but like in the end, you know deep down they don't give a shit about them. But this kind of like facade and like this, this phase that she's just putting on of like, and like, and I do believe she, she thinks. she cares, but, like, in the end, she's, she doesn't. It's like, it's, it's this level of oblivioness of, like, oh, no, when, when Beatry says, um, you don't know me, like, you have no idea, um, what it's like, um, right. Like, you, I'm here with your family, but like, you don't know anything about my life. I know everything about yours, uh, which I think is a lot of the themes that Romo also kind of, like, explores. And it made me think a lot about that. But yeah, but Connie Burton is

a perfect sample of the white woman who, who likes to think of herself as like a friend and an ally, but really doesn't understand all the murkiness that's really behind. Well, and the language is so precise in everything where there are, like, the movie has a few moments of these sort of like gotcha things where you can like point to it and just be like, ah, there is the hypocrisy that has like sort of revealed itself. But a lot of it is a lot more subtle. I was, like, the moment where Connie Britton's husband sort of bring, like, you know, brings Beatriz out of the room and is like, I'm calling the tow truck company, right? And how dare you do that? I can't believe. And she says, what's her name? Is it Kathy? Why would you do that to, why would you do that to Kathy? She, uh, she treats you like a friend, right? She treats you like she's, like you're her fucking friend. And it's like, and that is pulling the mask down, right? Exactly because it's like, you're not her friend, but she treats you.

treats you like it, and you should be grateful that she treats you like a friend, even though you're not. And it's like, oh, that is... And the movie doesn't hang a lantern on that. The movie doesn't, like, step back and sort of be like, ha-ha, he has revealed himself as, you know, as... There's a lot more trust that the audience is going to get this, that all this... Some of the most fascinating moments for me was... And they're very small, they're barely, but, like, the way Beatrice moves and interacts with the other help in the... house, the way she kind of...

John Early is a little bit hostile towards her. I love when she interrupts John Early and then General Interrupts her back. Yes. Like, please. Like, I got to take the orders. But when, when, like, she first is there just, like, waiting for her one to arrive and she's just hanging in the kitchen. And, you know, because she doesn't know, like, where does she belong? Is she, like, because she's not part of that.

Right. Is she upstairs? Is she upstairs? She's upstairs. And the way she approaches the maid when she... comes in and obviously they speak in Spanish to each other. So like that, those little interactions were like fascinating to me. And they're, again, very, very small, like barely perceivable if you are not looking for them.

Well, and then by that same token, though, the movie, which does so well with small and subtle, isn't afraid to do something, if not like, so big. But like, I'm thinking of the moment where she's been banished to the room, right? She goes up there. The subtle part is we see her. walking up to the room and she's got the bottle of wine and the glass after she's said she shouldn't drink.

And then she looks up Lithgow's characters information online or whatever. And then the next thing it literally cuts to her they're all out on the patio and they're looking at the stars or whatever and they're chatting their bullshit or whatever. And then all of a sudden she's there

with like the smile that doesn't reach her eyes with the guitar in one hand and the wine that she shouldn't be drinking in the other, and she's like the Babadook, where she's all of a sudden she's like there. It's so great.

Yeah, it's good. Yeah, it's a good movie. It's a good movie. I also want to shout out Lithgow on this movie, who I think is really tremendous. I did several, like, he and Salma had such good acting chemistry.

Like, the way they spar with each other, they're like, like, you can say Litgal plays it as, like, he's amused by Beatrice and like kind of wants it with engaged with her and be like, okay, what do you have for me? He's obviously not confronted a lot. I mean, the two other guys, if they could be sucking his dick, they would

you know, if he would, you know, they would make. And he kind of hates them for it, right? Yeah, exactly. Or like, he's condescending. He's like, everyone around me is like a yes man. Well, he's performing for them too, because like all those stories that he's talking about, like the whole thing with the rhino, of course

he's performing for them about that. Well, and all the other characters want her to stop talking immediately. And he wants to mix it up with her because I think part of him resents anybody who feels like they have a moral upper hand on him, which is like a great, like a really insightful way to draw a wealthy Republican,

which is just what do they hate more than anything else? It's moral righteousness, right? Because it, you know, you know, whatever. Well, and, you know, he never loses it with her. Even when she throws a phone at him, he's almost like a muse. He's like, oh, okay, like, don't get too seriously almost. You know, like, we're just talking. So, yeah, I think he finds her amusing.

And I think, you know. Well, and that comes from a place of arrogance, too, right? Because he knows that ultimately nothing can touch him. And that's what makes him even more infuriating. And she sees that in him. And she's so frustrated by that with him where it's just like, there's nothing she can say to him. for as much as, you know, try healing something, it's much harder. It's a devastating line enough that, like, I wrote it down.

Ultimately, he's not going to, it's not going to keep him up at night that she said that. And I think that's the sort of... He's not even going to know what she means, by the thought. Right. That's the sad realism of the movie, too, where it was just like, yeah. Oh, this will become a fun party story for another dinner. You know, it's... Yeah, yeah, absolutely. This woman with a goat threw a phone at me.

Yeah. Can I tell you the moment that made me gasp, and maybe it did too, is one, I can't remember what preceded this. I think this was, it had to have been after the, she sees the photo of the rhinoceros, right? That's when she gets really mad. Yeah. But at some point, she's like building a head of steam, Beatrice is, and saying something. I think it's. Connie Britton starts to say something, and she just goes, shut up, Kathy. And she says it so, like, it's not, she doesn't build up to it. She just, like, it's just matter of fact, just like, shut up, Kathy. And it's so good.

I do, I always gasped at that part. And I gasped more at Connie Britton's reaction to that, which is just like, her jaw just, like, drops a little bit. Connie Britton's phenomenal in this movie. She's really, really, she's so good. Yeah. Can I also say, Chloe 70's character orders mom. my basic white girl drink of choice in this movie. vodka soda with a splash of crayon.

vodka soda with a splash of crayon. And I literally, I saw her do that and I was like, I hung my head. I was like, yeah. Excellent, excellent character choice, though, because they, she and Jay Toopless, who I still can't say his name right. Live in your truth, Chris, that's fine.

It's just hot goggles on, is why I can't be a name. You're just, you're industry-pilled, though. So you're- I am industry-pilled, listen, he's got, the full Cruella DeVille skunk thing going. It's the Michelle Vassage. The two of them, they show up to this mansion basically hopping up and down because they're like, we're about to be rich.

We're about to be rich. But the fact that like, no offense to you, Joe, that she asks for a vodka soda with a special friend shows the class level. Yeah, yeah. No, I get it. It's fine. Listen, I've never purported to be any class. year than I am, and that's my

saving grace. She does ask for gray goose, but I owed it, yeah. When I asked for an option, she asked for gray goose, so. Yes, I know. Can I tell you, also, I had just seen Bones and all at, uh, Bones. I saw the Bones.

Don't spoil what role she plays, though. I won't. I'll just say that you know she's in it. I did not know she was in it. Oh, well, it's been making the rounds that like she was does she play the Bones? She plays the bones. She plays all the bones.

I mean, honestly, that's a natural progression of Chloe Seveny's career. Yes. Well, she shows up at some point, and I literally, I gasped because I was like, oh, like, because once Chloe Sevenyi shows up, you know that, like, anything is now on the table, right? But, like, there is, the realm of possibilities is wide once Chloe shows up. And very, very exciting once she does. um yeah everybody's great

in this movie you guys everyone everyone trying to think of what else that I wrote down uh

I mean yeah we went through a lot I mean John early shut up Kathy shut up Kathy

um wait I wanted to ask you guys because we talked about this last time when I was here yes Amy Adams

um but I kind of, like, I was wondering the same thing with Salma, and it's different because there is probably two hugely different careers, but what do you think will take her to get another Oscar nomination? Not Howsaguchi. Yeah, unfortunately. I could see it, I definitely could see it happening.

She definitely is in that realm of celebrities that the award, like, everybody loves and wants to sort of, you know, support, I think, in a way. And whether that has anything to do with her as a person or whether that's just sort of like there is this A-list level that's like, you know, it's your Hanks's and your Julia's and your Oprah's and your all that. And like she is among them. She is in that strata, right? You're Ben Stillers and your Tom Cruise's and all of that. And I think anybody who exists within that strata, there's always going to be a chance. And it's not like they're automatic.

They're not like, you know, money in the bank every time that they've got a movie coming out. But, like, she will never be forgotten. Like, that seems like a weird thing. You know what I mean? Like, she won't ever be like whatever happened to Salma Hayek. Like, that's never going to happen. Oh, of course, though. Well, and I think it's in favor that she, like you said it earlier, like, she knows how to make a play when she knows there's a chance.

Yeah. I guess my question was more like what type of role? Like, do you see it more of a, like, a quiet? thing or like a stylized bigger thing. She does so much mainstream stuff that I don't think that would be the avenue for her. I mean, even though she's still incredibly successful, like,

there's a whole sequel to the hitman's bodyguard because she got the best notices for that movie. Yeah. Like, she is the reason that movie got a sequel that we all forgot about it. What if she like directed something that she also started? I was thinking that or I was thinking get her a prestige miniseries and get her

the traction there that then can escalate towards. Yes. Yeah. I'm just... White Lotus Season 3. I mean, my suggestion was she should play the manager in a Cancun resort or like... Something that...

But a T... I think this was announced a while ago, but I know now that it's moving a little forward. There will be a TV series adaptation of, like, water for chocolate. Oh. And I think she would kill as the mother. She, that's a role she could eat, and I'm just putting it out in the universe. Yeah.

Gary's Prayer Circle. But, yeah, I can see her, like, partner, you know, like, or something, like, something gives her a little more time, or, like, screen time, I guess, to feel. Salma Hayek and Penelope Cruz in a remake of arsenic and old lace in like 15 years or whatever, right? First of all, they are too young for that. That's what I said, 15 years from now. I said, we're laying in the groundwork now because it takes a while to make these things happen. Obviously, they start in the hugely Oscar-Bady movie Banditas. We are now a bandita's podcast.

I'm surprised she's never done on Almodovar. I was thinking that too That is surprising to me Because she runs in those circles Yeah Yes So yeah Yeah she's got such like

Deep ties with both Penelope Cruz And Antonio Banderas actually Yeah Like that's like that's really interesting Yeah Yeah The thing about About Salma is

One of the biggest current vectors Towards getting an Oscar Is playing somebody A real person A real life person And like, unfortunately, her options for that are more limited than other people, which sucks. But if you can find the right sort of avenue there.

Well, but I think that wouldn't be the avenue for her anyway, because her first Oscar nomination was doing that, and it's the most iconic role of her career. She has to do something different than that. But I also think it's telling that that is what got her Oscar nomination. was. And it followed the very, it was, it's that same thing of like, she got the role. She wanted to play this role. This was something she wanted to do forever. And then she hit the campaign trail and made sure everybody knew it. And that's what you have to do. Or something made, yeah, like a, even if it's not an cultural icon, like Frida Kahlo, you know, someone like based on true, a real person that has some. I'm thinking, I don't know why this came to mind, but like a zero dark 30. You know, like someone based With a big With a big director and writer behind it That kind of like elevate that

Fine, I'll take it up on myself I'll write her side I was gonna say, Jorge, like we've talked about this all You're the one to do it I'll do that Yes Okay And I have

Have I told you my journey My snatched game journey with Salma I have right? Yes, but our listeners don't know Our listeners need to know Our listeners need to know Um, fine. I'll talk about it. Um, so last year, uh, friend of your podcast and all of our friends, uh, IRL, uh, Kevin O'Keefe. Friend and former guest.

Friend and former guest, uh, for his 30th birthday party, uh, decided to throw, uh, a snatch game, uh, with, among friends. Uh, so he asked a group of friends, uh, if we want to participate. So we had to choose a character and, uh, come up. with costuming and and mannerisms and all and we would all play snatch game one one night so he rented a love space uh he set it up as a stage he invited other people to watch someone to host and it was about 10 people and we all played very drunken snatch game um and my character was of course uh salma hayek of course uh which i decided to style uh for uh as Beatrice because, you know, I didn't want to do Frida because that would have been Frida Kahlo

and that was a different character and besides that I'm like, what's an iconic? So, like, it's, you know, it's just like a tight dress and big boobs and, you know, it's, um, yeah.

So, yeah, so I got a pair of mom jeans from Goodwell and like, this, this blue blouse and like a wig with bangs that I tied into a ponytail. And I did get big boobs because you can't hide those.

Well, sure, of course. Well, and also, like, you're not going to pass up the opportunity to have big boobs. Like, come on. Of course not. No, no, no. And it was great. You're on Snatch game, for God's sake. Did a little unibrow and did a snatch game.

And it was, I watched a shitton of hours of interviews to get her accent right. Sure. Because she has a very specific accent. It's not, like, I think the instinct would be to do like a Sophia Vergara type of accent. And that's not quite it. She has a more restrained. She doesn't roll her R's. she like kind of keeps everything in the back of her throat it's right you know obviously i went to

school for for acting and like i i've taken it and you know and it was it was a lot of fun and i would i i i'd like to say that i would have made top top three if that was a challenge um you know you got to pick two to three attributes of a celebrity i was going to say and run the bit to the ground i now the question that all of our listeners are going to want to know is did you have in your arsenal a and from Canada water reference? Of course I did. And I text them to you. It's so, that was a joke, but like my bits were, because every interview she talks about how many animals she has.

She just adopts an animal. Shout out to the owl that sits on her head. She just picks up dogs from every production she's in if she sees them running around. So, like, she runs. So I, when I went to Goodwill, I bought every stuffed animal I could find. So every time the host, the Roo, quote unquote Roo, came to me, I just had a different animal on the desk. So the more the game came on, I just had piles and piles of adopted animals. And I would just go on with a story about how I had adopted them.

I would also say a lot how things were done in Mexico that were done different. in the U.S., so I said that a lot. And yeah, in my and Canada water, it was a long setup because Kevin, Kevin was playing

makeup mogul tatty. Of course, yes. So my bit was I want to her something to hydrate, so I brought her a bunch of gifts and I brought her from Canada water. And it was a water bottle

with the Canadian flag painting on it. Not a single person laughed, except Kevin O'Keefe, but that's everything I wanted to do, and it was delightful. It was a demented evening, but it was a lot, a lot of fun. There were a lot of great characters in that. I was sort of, I was going through her, like, especially early filmography when you were saying, you're trying to figure out, like, how to style her. And, like, it, early especially, it's just sort of struck me.

I mean, I could have done her from dust till. on striped her stripper look. This is the thing. She's a vampire in that. Yeah. Yeah. But I... A vampire stripper. Yes. Yeah. But I also wanted comfort. I chose comfort. And, you know, the Beatrice look is... It's, it was a comfy one. I will... Whenever they talk about Quentin Tarantino's foot fetish thing, nobody ever remembers the fact that, like, he drinks champagne from... Like, she sticks her foot in... her foot in his mouth in that movie and, like, pours champagne down her body and, like, runs into his mouth. It's the most intense thing.

That movie rules, though, from Dusk Till Dawn. I fucking love that movie. Yeah, I kind of rewatch it. But her, like, 90s career, like, because she breaks through in the States in Desperado, which is 1995. And then, like, it goes very quickly from that to, like, from Dust Till Dawn, I think had already been probably filmed by then. the next two years later she's in fools rush in with Matthew Perry which is like Salma Hayek has arrived and how do you know she's arrived is we are putting her in a romantic comedy with a star of the biggest television

the biggest television right and then 54 is the year after that also the faculty which also rules she only makes Robert Rodriguez movies that rule um uh and then the thing that i always forget about is she's in dogma as like yes she's very funny in dogma i will say is she an angel i'm trying to like look up like what is her she's a muse i'm a muse stupid i'm a muse stupid she's really funny in dogma like she's and she's like paling around with like uh uh who the fuck right linda fjorentino right and then j and silent bob right like that's the whole like little like you know scooby gang or whatever of that movie that's a more interesting movie i'm the kevin smith apologist also of this chasing amy is my kevin smith movie

that i will really ride for dogma i don't think is that great but it's real weird and interesting it's probably dated as hell but i'm willing to say that she is probably still very funny in that movie and then same year 99 is wild wild west which would have killed a lesser career like you know what I mean like because Will Smith's career was going to survive that fine Kevin Klein like barely knew he was doing that movie and like the person whose career would have probably suffered for that

is the you know the female on that who like you know usually that role is like in the revolving door of your like you know Kate Bosworths or whatever Claire for Lonnie's and I think it speaks to the fact of her like power as a movie

movie star that she was able to be like, yeah, well, nobody's going to talk about me in Wild Wild West from now on because, like, there are other weirder, dumber things about that movie, plus there's a song. What if at some point you saw Wild Wild West in 1999 and you were like, in 20 years, the only way people will know about this movie is gay bartenders dancing atop a bar at the timing saddles to this song every 10 minutes? like it's it's often um and then like obviously like frida is only around the corner and stuff like that and then but like i just i don't know her 90s career is is is incredibly interesting

because it's the most mainstreamy of it like once frida happens she really goes into a real particular vector where if she's in mainstream things she's kind of in small roles in it right and then her bigger roles are in things like Ask the Dust, Savages, Beatrice at Dinner, obviously and I don't know, it's an incredibly interesting career. It is. I'm excited to see where... Does she have any in production right now?

That's a very good question. Please hold. Let's see. She has, well, the new Pussy and Boots movie, of course. Of course. Oh, of course. She iconically replaced Tandewa Newton in the new Magic Mike. Magic Mike, which is now going to be in theaters.

Listen, we got a W on this one. It is coming to theaters. Yes. I'm obsessed with the pictures of the same scene, but just it's Tandua and Salma, wearing the exact same Carmen San Diego costume. I am so excited for it. I love Tandua. I'm so sad that she decided to leave, but I'll take some.

I don't care. She has also filmed the next movie directed by Angelina Jolie, which is called Without Blood. The plot is listed as plot kept under wraps on IMDB, which is my favorite plot on IMDB. I will be 1,000% singing the title of that movie to the sounds of without love from hairspray. from hairspray. I'm 100%. That's absolutely true and right. Yeah, it's her and Damien Bashir, and I'm very interested in that. So, there

we go. Okay, so I'm seeing, that could be I mean, we'll see where it goes, but that's, that's, you know. Angelina's luck with the Oscars, with the stuff she's directed, hasn't been good. So, do you think they, they bonded at Eternals? It's very possible. If they ever were in the same room

as each other when they filmed their scenes. They probably are in a text group. Yeah, no. I'd leave. I would love. love it if like Salma Hayek Angelina Jolie Barry Cogan

I'm just going to pronounce his name differently every time that's going to be my bit because I'm going to pronounce his last name differently Richard Madden Brian

Harry Henry that little girl that everybody hated um Kid Harrington wasn't he Kevin Harrington although he's not one of the eternal

so I wonder if they like Osterized him yeah but I bet you they guarantee they ostracized him Gemma Chan right I thought

Harry Siles was just like in the credits as not Thanos. I don't know. He's in the post credits. He's in the post credit scene. He shows up in the post credit scene as Phanos's brother. I have not seen a marble. No, I mean, I've seen some, but I. I haven't seen a Marvel movie since Black Widow.

Oh, Kumil Nanjiani. There we go. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Poor checked Kumil. After watching Brian Tyree Henry and Jennifer Lawrence talk about the real housewives in Toronto, I feel like he would be a good presence in a group chat. I feel like, yes, and I will say, to take it back to Salma, she does a hell of a press door. Oh, yeah. Yep.

She's one of the great ones. Yep. sitting next to Gaga talking about myzer and circle when Gaga wrote a letter to herself to get rid of herself I remember when I first started this

I wrote a letter to myself and I said I don't need you anymore I said I need only the parts of you that are meaningful for Patricia and it's just a zoom on Salma's faith it's so good it's so good God

oh God But, yeah, so too many more, Salma, press. Yes, that's exactly right. Also, I literally, it's the only note that I wrote down that I haven't mentioned. I love a movie that ends with that Brian Eno song that's in every other movie. I always think of it as from 28 Days Later, but it's that sort of, you know, very, you know, wistful quasi. Tones. Yes, tones.

It's just, yes, exactly. It's called an ending, which, like, all right. all right Brian we get it you're you're you're opening up the the vault and waiting for all of the checks to roll in from all the movies that would be using this piece of music yeah should we move on to the IMDB game sure let's do it joe why don't you explain what the IMDB game is whatever you're not my dad you can't tell me what to do no okay all right every week we end our episodes with the IMDB game where we challenge each other with an actor or actress to try and guess the top four titles that IMDB says they are most known for. If any of those titles are television or voice, if any of those titles are television or voice, wow, I can't talk at all. If any of those titles are television, voice only performances, or non-active credits, we mentioned that up front, motherfucker. After two wrong guesses, we get the remaining titles, release here's the clue. And if that's not enough, it just

becomes a free-for-all of hints and me getting tongue-tied for no good reason. That's it. Or hey, as our guest, you get the option of whether you want to give or guess first and who you are going to be challenging or being challenged from. Great. I'll give to you, Chris. I'll guess from Joe.

I'll guess first. Okay. So Joe, you are giving to him. All right. He will give to me and then I will give to you. So, Jorge, I have chosen an actress who is working. with Mike White

and I believe Miguel Arteta both in various capacities. Yes, because Miguel Artetta directed a whole bunch of enlightened episodes and this actress was a guest star on Enlightened and additionally starred in The Year of the Dog. I'm talking about, of course, Molly Shannon

and Molly Shannon's known for has no television and no voice performance. Oh, no. Oh, no. So, films only. Films only I hope this is in there Other people

Correct Her Independent Spirit Award winning Role in other people A lovely movie Good performance Great Jesse Plements Great Jesse Clemens performance Great John Early performance

Great Josie Toto performance Everybody's great in that Everybody's great in that movie God what else is Molly Shannon on Uh Did anything from post S&L? Oh,

Superstar, probably? Superstar. Okay, okay, that's... Okay, this is where it's getting tough. Oof. Yeah, you got the two that I would have gotten. Yeah, yeah. What other Molly Shannon movies are there?

she's not see no this is too early SNL movie fuck I'm gonna guess and I may look a fool because this may be

for all I know like 80s movie 80s SNL was she part of cone heads or is that way too early I think it's just too early yeah if she was it would have been before

she was on SNL okay so been thought. I mean, I'll take it as a gas, though. Yes, okay. So, yeah. I'll say, no, no, no, no, not cone heads. Can I read to you the cast of cone heads for a second, though, because it's genuinely insane. Dan Aykroyd, Jane Curtin, Michael McKean, David Spade, Chris Farley, Sinbad, Michael Richards, Phil Hartman, Adam Sandler, Jason Alexander, Lorraine, Neumann, Garrett Morris, Drew Carey, Kevin Neillan, Jan Hooks, Parker Posey, Joey Lauren Adams, Julia Sweeney, Ellen DeGeneres, Jonathan Penner from Survivor,

John Lovitz, Tom Arnold. It's why. Wow. It was the Joey Lauren Adams that threw me. What? Is that in the 90s, though?

Like 92? Oh, okay. So it's just early. Okay, I wasn't too far off. I... I don't... I mean, this is such a small... She's in Maria Antoinette, isn't she?

She is, but it's incorrect. It's not. All right, so those are two strikes. Okay, okay. Your missing years are, sorry as I scroll up, 1999 and 2006. 2006 is really hard, but it's a comedy franchise that has a lot of installments.

It does. A lot of installments? Yes. Yes. Like more than three? Yes. Specifically more than three for this particular answer. Yeah.

Specifically more than three. What to give you a clue on? It's part of a very... Is it like a... Sorry, go ahead. Like spoof kind of genre? Yes. Exactly.

Exactly. Like a scary move? movie type of? Yes. So, scary movie four? Scary movie four. Oh, okay. Okay, okay.

Your other one, she's playing a co-worker slash friend of the main character. Okay, okay. She's probably third build. Yeah, probably. Like a rom-com? Yes, like a rom-com. Okay. A fairly high-concept rom-com.

A high-concept rom-com. Yeah. I would be surprised if you haven't seen this. she's fourth built oh uh never been kissed never been kissed yeah okay yeah yeah she she's good in that uh-huh yeah yeah fun she works at the newspaper right with yeah she's yeah i think she's not the editor but like maybe a co-worker wait did we all see the drew berry more justin long interview from last week on her talk show you sent it to me it was so moving like it was I'm sorry. Someone is ringing my bell. Give me two seconds.

Oh, okay. Be safe. Yeah, we'll pause it. This is the beginning of a horror movie, Chris. Oh, no. This is, this is, what's the one? We're about to be unfriended. I was going to say, this is unfriended. No. If somebody goes, like, skittering along the ceiling of Jorge's room, I'm out of here.

We're going to be like, what's that, like, looking in the corner of his room? and all of a sudden. Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. We're going to hear a thud. It's going to be scary. Anyway, did you watch that interview? I did. Were you not as moved to?

That was scary. I love their relationship. I don't know. They have, like, they stayed friends. As with all things, justice for private life, not being in Molly Shannon. Oh, yeah, she just. just wants a Biali from Russ and daughter. Okay, so it's my time.

Yes. Yes. Who do you have for me? Okay, Chris, I went a bunch of routes. Would you like the easy choice or the harder choice? We can go with the harder choice. Okay. Godspeed to you with the...

No, I think it'll be fine. So I also went the Enlighten route. a lot of the guest stars in that show and I went with someone I really love one Miss Michaela Watkins

Michaela Watkins Okay No television I don't think I don't think SNL is going to be on there There's no TV No TV, okay shit

This is going to be really hard I may punk out and go Yeah, that's fine, yeah, uh-huh. Do you want to go with the easy option? I want to go with the easy option. I love Michaela Watkins, but everything I can think of is TV. Yeah, that's...

Because there's also casual... Wait, can I try Michaela Watkins when he's done with whatever this is? Yeah, you can try with... Yeah. Okay. I won't get it, but I want to see if I can get, like, a couple. Then this, you probably have done it before, but I know you've also restarted your IMDB game.

Um, we mentioned her as, uh, the delightful surprise cameo in Like a Boss, so I'll give you Lisa Kudrow. Oh, fantastic. And there's two television there. Friends. Uh-huh. And, oh, shit. Um, uh, the comeback. Of course, yes, iconic.

Um, Romie and Michelle. Yes. And-I think you may get a perfect score here. Uh, the opposite of sex. Yeah, you got a perfect score. Perfect score. We'll accept it as not a perfect score since I punked out, but... Joe, one of me and say what Michaela Watkins' movies, you know.

Oh, yeah. Oh, I mostly just want to know if In a World isn't her known for. Sure is. All right. That's the only one that I really had. Okay. Okay. I mean, I'll say the Four. I don't know if you would have gotten them, but it's In a World. Wonderlust. Oh, sure. Thanks for sharing Which one is thanks for sharing

That's the sex addict movie, right? Oh, the Mark Ruffalo Pink Is a sex addict movie? Yes No, starring Alicia Moore How dare you? Right, right. Yeah, she is bailed as Alicia Moore.

She is, yeah, she's bailed out of it. And the super memorable J-Lo rom-com The Backup Plan. Oh, the Nadeer. The Nadeer of J-Lo's rom-com career. the backup plan.

I was going to say my other, because I had two paths to Lisa Cusra. One was like a boss. And I was trying to figure out if any other celebrities had ever done Amazing Race. And no, but Shara from Amazing Race appeared in an episode of the comeback.

Yes. Anyway, that's the deranged path I took. Anyway. Excellent. Joseph, for you, I actually went into the White Lotus cast list and I chose everyone's favorite boyfriend until the white loitonis, Jake Lacey. All right. Any television? No television. Okay. So no White Lotus, no girls.

Oh, what is it called? Wait, obvious child. Yes, obvious child. Miss Sloan. Miss Sloan. Yeah. He plays a... sex worker in that and is hot. A sex worker named Ford at that. Yes, that's right. All right. Here's where it gets difficult. Mr. Jake Lacey.

Huh. All right. All right. Now all I can think of is television that he's on. Okay. Well, gotta be recent stuff because I didn't really see him in anything before

obvious child um well shit I might just need to like burn off some answers and see oh oh no uh the favorite

he is not in the favorite who am I think of Nicholas Holtz how dare I dare you Nicholas Holt is so good in that movie. He's so good in that movie. No, literally, I literally juxtaposed Jake Lacey's face on top of Nicholas Holtz. I would like to juxtapose their face. All right, well, we're going to count that as one of my strikes, though, because I need a strike.

All right, then we'll do that. Your years are 2015 and 2018. Wait, what was your first wrong guess? I didn't have one, but I needed these years anyway, so I'm not going to complain. Oh, okay. 2015 Comedy? No.

Very much not. It sounds like, okay, so very much not a comedy. So a heavy. Not heavy. It's just, it's not a comedy. There is shit that I do laugh at in this movie. Okay. Because there is some funny stuff.

So, like, action? No. it's a drama yeah okay it was a drama it's a gay drama oh what was a gay drama in 2015 they let people make gay dramas in 2015 that's crazy it's it's a guy yeah what does that mean what is the oh god okay once you get it you'll know what it means yes is it gay It's not, it's gay, drunk. I thought you're the gays. Yeah, it's the gays. Gary's know what we're doing. Yeah, we're doing a hand motion.

I know, we're doing the gay hand thing. Guy Brannum does a phenomenal gay hand motion in bros. It is like the platonic ideal of the gay... I will say Joe. MVP of bros, Guy Brannock. 100%. The hand motion is a hint. Is a hint?

Yeah. There's a whole meme about it. I think if you get it through 2015 super gay movie Also he is famously everyone's boyfriend in movies Wait So it's a drama It's super gay It's Stonewall

It's not Stonewall What is wrong with you? I don't know It is not gay as in male gay Gotcha Gotcha It's also not contemporary I'm just hearing

Like clarinets and oboes in my head Okay The director of this movie Also directed a bunch of enlightened episodes Oh True Maybe just one But like it's a really good episode

Okay Wait so period lesbian movie 2015 2015 why are you keep saying it like Joe's going to be so missed Oh oh oh oh oh I forgot that he's in this movie He's in Carol Yes

As Rudy Mara's boyfriend That's right I totally forgot he was in that movie You do have to insert Wait why is the hand motion A clue for Carol That's the Cape Blanchett thing Where someone's asking her about her gaze And she's like oh the gaze

I thought she meant the gay Oh, I don't recall that at all. Oh, I got to find that. Please insert that audio. Okay. You know, you have such a gaze, a signature, the crew is cracking up here. I have a whole lot of gaze. The signature Disney villain gaze.

I want to know, how do you do that Disney villain gaze? Teach us. Oh, I'm sorry, I thought Disney villain gays, as in the gay Disney villains. Sorry, this is an accent dysfunction. Oh, you mean the gays. up the gays. It's in the Cinderella press tour. Yeah, it's the gays.

All right, all right, all right, right. No, you're right. I've duly shamed myself. You still have one movie left to go for Jake Lacey, and it's 2018. Is this a comedy? Maybe. Remember the conversation that you and I believe Katie and I were having recently about there's a whole filmography that I have, like, just not seen.

Just like seen. The Fast and a Furious movie? Yes, but go deeper. The Rock movies. Correct. I have only seen The Mummies and Get Smart of Rocks. So it's a movie with Dwayne Johnson in 2018. Is it?

He's not in the Jumanji movie. No, but this is not a Jumongi movie by the looks of it. Okay. Oh, oh, wait. Is it San Andreas? No. Damn it. I saw that movie in the theater for nothing.

Okay. All right. What was The Rock doing in 2018? This was pre-Hobbs and Shaw, right? Was. You said it's not unlike Jumanji. So like jungle setting? Some sort of...

I don't know if there's a jungle setting. There might be jungle elements. Yeah. Yeah. Oh. Oh. it's based on a video game right i know what you're talking about i like uh is it rampage rampage yeah anybody could be in that movie i wouldn't know it's schrodinger's blockbuster um

wow yeah carroll's gonna i'm gonna feel shame for carroll yeah that's too bad all right well it will lead you to the discovery of kate blenched speaking of feeling shame all of us totally, excuse me, breezed by the fact that Salma Hyac was nominated for an AARP Movies for Grownups Award. She was. For this movie.

She was beat by Annette Benning for film stars don't die in Liverpool. Now, listen, you know I love a Net Benning. This isn't a terrible movie, but like, and I kind of get why AARP M4G's voters would have like

flocked to this right, because it's like it's about an old Hollywood star and she finds love with like hot young Jamie Bell and who wouldn't want to do that for living and like all of that and yet it's a weird the fact that it beat out Francis McDormin

in three billboards the year that she won the Oscar Merrill in the Post which feels like a real fastball down the middle for the M4G's let's let's let's go let's go let's go let's go let's go we'll publish we'll post let's let's let's let's go what de-glamming actresses is for the Oscars big billowy gold caftans should be for the I was gonna say if anyone's gonna go for a captain acting should be them and sure then they should have nominated Amy Landecker for supporting actors yeah well

they did give it a war to Christine Bereanski and Mamma Mia iconic captain acting so you know they do have they do have president and the fifth nominee that you year is, like, the patron saint of the emphrages, Judy Dench, in Victorian Abdul, a performance that really did come closer than you would think to getting an Oscar nomination. Yeah. Like, probably definitely sixth place. Probably. Yeah, you're not wrong.

Probably. Okay. Got that in there. All right. Now we can wrap it up. All right. That, I believe, is our episode. If you want more ThisHad Oscar Buzz, you can check out the Tumblr at thisheadoscarbuzz.com.

Please also follow us on Twitter and had underscore Oscar underscore Buzz. Jorge, thank you so much for coming back. Thank you for inviting me for dinner for making the vegetarian plate for me, which is just veggies and rice put together half-cathorily. But no, thank you. I always delighted to come. And tell our listeners where they can find more of you. Yes, of course. You can find me on Twitter at Caller Mi Jorge.

You can also listen to some and watch some of my projects. Your listeners will probably like my award season Murder Mystery podcast, just to be nominated, which is all out on every platform you listen to your podcasts. You can also watch my short film, Moigate to Mex, on HBO Max. If you have HBO Max, it's there. Please celebrate Hispanic Heritage Month by watching it and giving us dreams. Yeah, other than that, I'll be hanging by the pool with a glass of white wine. And Joe, tell the listeners where they can find more of you.

Well, first of all, Hage, we're not these people, and it's what I want everybody to know that I am not an ugly person who forgets Carol. I just forgot that Jake Lacey was in Carol. And you can find me to yell at me about that on Twitter and on Letterbox, both at Joe Reed. Read spelled R-E-I-D. And I am on Twitter and Letterbox at Crispy File. That's F-E-I-L. We would like to thank Kyle Cummings for his fantastic artwork and Dave Gonzalez and Gavin Media is for their technical guidance. Please remember to rate, like, and review us on Spotify, Apple Podcast, Google Play, Stitcher, wherever else you get your podcast.

Five-star review in particular really helps us out with Apple Podcast visibility. So stop writing bad titles for your shitty memoir. and leave us a nice review. That's all for this week. We hope you'll be back next week for more buzz. Thank you.