This Had Oscar Buzz - 228 – After Hours (with Mitchell Beaupre!)

Episode Date: January 23, 2023

Letterboxd senior editor and podcast co-host Mitchell Beaupre joins us this week and is bringing their favorite film along, and it’s our oldest film yet: Martin Scorsese’s After Hours. In the mid-80s Scorsese was rebounding from his closest call with Oscar yet in Raging Bull and a first attempt to make The Last Temptation of … Continue reading "228 – After Hours (with Mitchell Beaupre!)"

Uh-oh, wrong house. No, the right house. I didn't get that! We want to talk to Marilyn Hacks. I'm from Canada. I'm from Canada water. I said, I want to see a plaster of Paris bagel and cream cheese paperweight. Now cough it up, so I left.

Tiki! So, I haven't got enough money to get home until I meet this bartender who wanted to lend me the money. That's all right. That's all right. That's all right. So I go back to the girl's apartment, but her roommate's really pissed off at me for the way I treated her friend. This the guy? Hi. So I march right in there to apologize. Come on.

But she'd already killed herself. I was too late. Oh, wow. Lighten up. What is this? Hello and welcome to the This Had Oscar Buzz podcast, the only podcast that we'll think about shoplifting that bracelet before returning it. Every week on This Had Oscar Buzz, we'll be talking about a different movie that once upon a time had Lofty Academy Award aspirations, but for some reason or another, it all went wrong. The Oscar hopes died, and we are here to perform the autopsy. I'm your host, Joe Reed. I'm here, as always, with my plaster of Paris bagel with cream cheese paperweight Chris file.

Hello, Chris. I am the product of Linda Fjornitino's hands. I say that about you kind of constantly. Many have said that about me. So excited to talk about this movie. We're recording this movie later than we normally do. So you could say that we're recording it. True.

Oh, our commitment to the bit is strong. I love committing to the bit. a certain swath of our listeners will be very happy that we have a new oldest movie we've ever talked about on this. That's true. That's true. By one year beating out, right? Nuts was 86 or was Nuts? I thought it was 87. Okay, so by two years. This is very exciting, though.

Much as I love to bring up, I have an excuse to bring up nuts as often as possible, because what a picture. Yeah. Well, and also, too, like we look for these avenues to like maybe talk about older movies sometimes but also keeping them in our back pocket because of course like as we said before the Oscar race wasn't quite the type of thing where you know yada yada yada where we're talking about however the filmmaker we're talking about uh definitely has an interesting Oscar era that we will be talking about we have found ways and avenues to talk about Martin Scorsese as often as possible for somebody who, especially in the last 30 years, very rarely makes a movie that doesn't get any Oscar nominations. So we've had After Hours in our back pocket for a while in terms of I at least have

been looking at it, like, that's a possibility we could do that. And then our guest this week, I've seen tweet about this movie enough times that I'm like, we've got to have them on to talk about, like, this is our excuse to talk about after hour. So I'm going to introduce our guests. We are very excited to have them here. The senior editor at Letterboxed and co-host of the Letterbox show podcast. Welcome, Mitchell Beaupé. Hello, thank you for having me. I'm very glad that my secret ploy to keep tweeting about after hours until you guys invited me on. Finally worked. Years in the making. I've just been like, well, they see these tweets and be like, come on the, we didn't get any Oscar nominations. Come on the show. Brick by brick by brick. You

have built this wall and we have finally have to acknowledge. You were waiting to come on the show so we could all Discorsese Oh Jesus Wow All right That's one That's one demerit

You're I'm taking the $20 You know Bring the Discorsese To the internet Lord knows the internet Has its fill Of Discorsese

I feel like that's Any time that I see Scorsese's name In a tweet I'm like Oh no Are we doing it Here we go

It's like the opposite of like Most of the time You see somebody name in a tweet and they're like over like 70 you assume that they die oh yeah kind of that panic moment for Scorsese it's like oh people are doing the discourse thing with Scorsese it's like never a fear that he died did he say the words Antman again like no god no not again um okay so you love this movie and I do have to say

for all of the uh discorsese that goes on there is a section of Scorsese fans that will, if not necessarily say it is their top Scorsese, but like put it in their top five Scorsese movies. And whenever I see it after hours on a person's like top of Scorsese, I always feel like those are good and chill people. Which is interesting because it's not a chill movie by any means. But yeah, it's like, it's an interesting movie where for such a long time, people would say like it's under, And people still say it's like really underrated, especially within his canon. But to me, like, I feel like so many people have said that enough times that I feel like I would never personally say it's underrated because I feel like people really love it.

But yeah, it's just not canonized in the way that like Goodfellers or Raging Bull is. But yeah, I mean, after hours is my favorite movie of all time, like period, end of story. It's one of those things where I think on a long enough timeline, something becomes known for being underrated so long that it stops being underrated. But it also is the fact that, at least for me, like, I've curated my online existence so, like, sharply. Like, I've sanded down the annoying rough spots of my internet existence so much now that, like, I will never, if I ever see After Hours talked about, it's only in the most glowing terms, in the most, like, while still my, I mean, my grand theory about a filmmaker like Scorsese is. And by the way, I am absolutely having flashbacks to that. SAG Awards speech. I've been thinking about it.

Kristen Wigg and Maya Rudolph are doing the drinking game. The cast of bridesmaids are doing the drinking game. We're like every time you say Scorsese, you take a drink. Also, we have these, because we made up a drinking game when we were shooting bridesmaids. Played it all the time, and we wanted to share it with you guys tonight. People at home, you can play along.

It's a really fun game. It's very simple. Here's what you do. You have to take a drink every time, and I mean every time, you hear the word Scorsese. you'd be surprised how much that comes up in just casual conversation because people like to throw that thing around and Melissa McCarthy is just chugging from the

bottle of alcohol that's this episode but I think with a filmmaker as well-known and famous as Martin Scorsesey to be as beloved as he is within a certain sort of corner of film fans, you almost have to have those one or two or three movies that don't hit the same way as the other ones so that those people can latch on to that movie and be like, underrated, it doesn't get enough praise.

And I think that we've talked about bringing out the dead. I think that's one of those movies from Martin Scorsese. And I think that's sort of essential to building it's not a, I would, you'd never call Scorsese a cult filmmaker, but like he has fans and appreciators in a way that those kinds of movies that you feel like you need to, if not defend, that's then at least sort of like make sure that like you like Goodfellas, let's not forget that he made a little movie called After Hours, my friends, like that kind of. And so I had heard about this movie for so long.

And it's one of those, and again, I tend to, in my head, sometimes build up these great movies that I haven't seen where it's like, well, I can't just watch it on like a Saturday afternoon. I can't watch it like after drag race on Friday night. I'm like too tired. What if I fall asleep? It would actually be kind of a gag if it would. Rest in peace, VH1 era. This wouldn't be a bad movie to play after drag race. Yeah, I was trying to think of like other movies of his that had like as much.

And, like, queer-ness is still at the periphery of this movie. But, like, even his other movies don't really have queerness at the periphery as much as this one does. It's fully almost this sub-not sub-plot, but, like, sub-theme. Is that a thing? Is a sub-theam? It is now. There is an undercurrent of it, much like there is in some of Paul Schrader's movies that is like, could I suck a dick?

Maybe I want to try sucking a dick. I don't know. Probably not. That's how I feel like Scorsese is about this. I've seen some people call this movie, like, homophobic or, like, homophobic of its time. And I don't quite think so. I would go to the total opposite direction. I don't have to have a real hair trigger for homophobia there, where it's just like, where at least just because there is male anxiety and something that also shows queer people doesn't necessarily make it homophobic.

I think Martin Scorsese seems like the kind of straight filmmaker who, is, you know, curious about this kind of stuff with, at a remove, but doesn't, none of this movie seems to be, um, sort of pointing and staring at things or pointing and laughing at things. Even the, the, you know, the leather couple making out at the bar or whatever. There's a little bit of a, of a lived in quality to that scene that I find that I really appreciate. We're like, yes, they're sort of like always in frame in a way that made, I imagine certain audiences maybe laughed at a little bit back in the day, but I don't think the intent of the filmmaking is gawking so much as just sort of just like New York City, man, like in all its glory. Well, it would be so glaring, I think, if you have this mid-80s movie that is kind of, that is a fantasy pseudo satire of lower Manhattan, like, neighborhoods and subcultures to not have leather daddy. making out somewhere like any queer people in it at all and that that leather couple at the bar like is the most like healthiest like normal seeming characters in the entire movie like every other character is like they're so empathetic to poor john heard and what he's going through

they're so sweet yeah genuinely um but i also like the fact that it also is part of this sort of tapestry of there's a little bit of a quality to this like yes it's soho in new york city and all of these characters, you can sort of feel like there's some sort of experiential quality where it's just like, we've seen these people out and around, or at least Corsese had in the 80s, around this time. But almost like thrown into, if not a blender, then just sort of just like, you're seeing all of these people maybe in like contexts that are a little askew, right? Where it's like the leather couple in the dive bar.

And you go to this Berlin nightclub, which is this punk nightclub. seems to have like also new wave people in like new wave uh outfits there and whatever and um i don't know it's just like there's a little bit of a hodgepodge quality to this vision of soho that i think is intentional and like really appeals to me too um i really really liked it i really i was glad to have an occasion to just sort of just like sit down and kind of you know uh you know play really close attention because i'm you know i've almost like an assignment or whatever but it's like it's pure pleasure and that like lean and mean 90 like I love that too like that's great that's super yeah the original cut too was like 45 minutes longer and they like I could

see that ton of shit out and I feel like I can't imagine it being that much longer like it feels like it has to be this length for it to like retain the the energy that it has like I don't know if you could keep that energy for you know what I don't know like 140 minutes or whatever would be a little bit tougher, but I mean, maybe they could still pull it off. Do you know if a director's cut even exists or has ever screened or anything like that? I would almost hope not. Yeah, it hasn't. I think there is maybe some deleted scenes on the DVD.

I know, like, I know of what some of the deleted scenes are. And they're like things like John Hurd comes back at one point and, like, Griffin Dunn tries to, like, explain that he was the one who, like, the Roseanne Arquette's character committed suicide kind of because of him. And, like, it just is, like, stuff that, like, doesn't really feel like it's needed. So I can't imagine that there's anything that doesn't, like, even though Scorsese and Thelma, like, liked the scenes that they cut, it feels like they've made the right choices to cut these scenes. As far as I know, there's not, like, a director's cut anymore. So far as a stickler, too, for, you know, the theatrical version of his movies are the director's cut. Like, he's not going to probably. Yeah, how many director's cuts are there?

I can't, off the top of my head, I can't think of any. I can't, either. he's been asked this about other movies too. If there isn't a director's cut of gangs of New York, then I'm not sure there will be a director's cut of anything, because like that was the most sort of fraught experienced with a cut of his

movie. I want to talk about the production process of this movie and where it came out of, but I want to do it on the other side of the plot description, so we don't get too far into it. But there's an interesting you know, behind the scene stuff of like, where this movie fits into his filmography,

and how it sort of functions within its filmography. But I want to do the plot description first. So, Mitchell, you can crack your knuckles and get ready. I'm going to give the boilerplate for this episode. We were going to be talking about Martin Scorsese's After Hours, directed by Martin Scorsese, written by Joseph Minion, on assignment at Columbia University, I believe, was the story that he wrote this for a class,

which is kind of cool. Starring Griffin Dunn, Rosanna Arquette, Linda Fiorentino, Terry Gar, John Hurd, Cheech Marin, Tommy Chong, Catherine O'Hara, Verna Bloom, Will Patton, as the freshest-faced Leather Daddy you will ever see.

Premier 13th, 1985. It also would end up playing the Cannes Film Festival in 1986. We'll talk about that as well. Let me find my phone, Mitchell, and you can be prepared to give a 60-second block description. I got a stopwatch.

Oh, do you? Okay, then Chris is going to keep time for you. Chris will call out the the 30 and the 10 and all right so you tell mitchell when to go all right mitchell you're if you are ready your 60 second plot description of after hours starts now all right griffin done plays paul hackett a mild mannered word processor who gets bored at home one night and decides to go out to dinner there he meets marcy franklin played by rzina arquette and they strike up a little fancy he later decides to go to her soho apartment under the pretense of purchasing a bagel and cream cheese paperweight from her roommate kiki bridges even though he's obviously going to try and

get laid. On his way, a $20 bill, the only cash he has, flies out of the taxi window and he can't pay the cab driver. Upon arriving at the apartment and starting to hang with Marcy, little things start seeming off and he eventually makes a decision to ditch her and go back home. The subway has raised... Ah, the subway has raised in prices and he doesn't have enough change to get home this way, then leading him to a practically Sisyphian night from hell, where he is constantly meeting oddball characters, all of whom initially present the promise of helping him get back home before somehow making his night even worse, to the point where he is eventually believed by the entire village to be a man who has been reportedly robbing apartments and an entire mob is formed to track him down and kill him.

After hiding out with the middle-aged, the only sculptor who sculptor who sculpts him into a plaster of Paris creation, Paul himself, it is robbed by thieves and falls out of their truck back in front of his office the next morning, right in time for the new day of work to begin. And with only three seconds over time, that is better than Joe and I have done in many an episode. Well done. I did. I tried to write it out beforehand, clearly. and I definitely skipped little bits and pieces as I was realizing the time was ticking down. It's a lot of plot to try and... It's one of those stories that is so good and feels so mythic in a way that it's described as akin to a lot of different things. You hear a lot of Kafka.

You hear a lot of Job from the Bible. Like there's, you know, this put-upon guy. I think anything where a character goes on this sort of like quest and meets a lot of people in episodic sections seems very Homerian to me. It feels very like Odyssey. And it's not perfectly any one of those things. It's sort of itself in its own way. But it also feels like this, there's a sense of unreality to all of it a little bit, just enough of it to make, to keep things interesting. And he films it in such a way where it's like,

it's it's just just this side of real and um it's also one of those movies where it's the perfect era of this couldn't happen in modern day right where it's like he's only carrying cash and the subway only accepts you know cash for tokens and there's no way he can contact anybody else and it's just like he's perfectly stranded in this perfectly pre technological way Yeah, Uber would make this basically not a movie, period. Uber would, ATMs would, cell phones would. I think we're more able to appreciate it now in a more modern context because there's a certain element of that too that I think helps the fantasy of this movie, the just on the other side of unreal of this movie. Yeah.

Yeah, the way that I constantly describe it is like for me, it is this encapsulation of like, like, my nightmares, like my actual nightmares that I have in a way that I don't think like any dream sequence in any movie has never captured what it actually feels like to be like in my nightmares the way that this movie does, which like my nightmares are so often like many people are trying to kill me and no matter what I'm doing, I can't escape them and it's like in reality there would be so many ways that I could get out of the situation but in my dreams I just can't like I'm doing it's like the it follows thing where like I get you know so far away but then somehow they're still just coming. And this movie gives me that exact same kind

of anxiety that same feeling of like he is trying everything he can just to fucking get home. And he just cannot get out of this goddamn neighborhood. It's the way in which other characters don't ever seem to fully hear what he's saying almost. Like Terry Gar, like you're sort of talking to a brick wall and like they, and so when it's like all of a sudden he looks out the one window and he sees Terry Gar putting up like a wanted poster for him, which, like, comes together in record time, you know, Lord knows how she was able to get that thing, you know, mimeographed and whatever in time. But again, surreality. Or, like, Catherine O'Hara just sort of, like, turns on him on a dime and just, like, keeps, like,

saying things to mess him up. And it's that, that dream life thing of just, like, frustration and, like, nobody will believe me. Like, I don't know. That's a recurring stress dream that I have is where you keep, like, trying to convince people of something and nobody will will understand it, which is why also, speaking of the queerness of this movie, my absolute favorite, most, like, the most relieving scene to me is when he runs into the gay guy who thinks he's picking him up and sort of takes him back to his apartment. And then just all he does is just unloads this whole story on this guy who, with the very least, listens to him. And easily my favorite side character in the movie. Again, the sweetest man. I wrote down his name too because

He'd never done anything with a man Robert Plunkett is the guy His character's name is just street pickup But absolutely I think that was the actor's first movie too Yes Oh wow Tremendous scene really really

But like there's like the Vignettiness of this movie really Appeals to me too And it lets the support characters shine One of the things I love about it too Is within that like so many movies That do that kind of structure There are ones like sequences that pop

and others that kind of deflate a little bit. And there can be a lot of like ebb and flow or something starts off really hot and then it just kind of drags out. But for after hours for me, it never feels like one scene is kind of the downer scene. You know, it's not like it's dragging a little bit as you're waiting to get back to like the next exciting part.

And I think a lot of that comes from the fact that all of these characters like for Paul initially present like the promise of he's finally going to get out. He's, you know, this person actually wants to help him. They're going to help him. and then something happens where, like you said, they turn on him, and then somehow it just gets worse. And it keeps, like, reusing that structure of it, but it never, you still feel the way that he feels every time he meets somebody, you still feel like, this is the one,

this is the person who's finally going to help me. Yeah. And then they don't. He keeps getting invited into people's apartments. Like, that's the other thing. It's just like, he starts off, he goes down to Soho to meet up with Roseanne Arquette, but like he ends up getting inside John Hurd's apartment, Terry Gar's apartment, Catherine O'Hara's apartment, this, the, the, the up the street pickups apartment, all of these people who just sort of like let him in. And it's like this glimmer of like, well, at the very least I can be like in from outdoors and maybe like crash on your couch or something. And it's just like, nope, got to keep going, got to keep moving.

And ultimately where like he ends up in this side apartment slash like artists studio inside the Berlin nightclub where like it's tough to tell whether the Verna Bloom character lives there. The guy at the bar seems to indicate that she does, but maybe that's only to keep, like, the other people out of there. And she's, like, plastering him in this plaster Paris to keep him hidden, while, like, Catherine O'Hara and the street vigilantes are, like, ransacking the place. And she's just sort of, like, working on him and plastering him and whatever. And it's just so, again, just deeply weird. But in a, there are certain movies like this where it's like an Odyssey into the Dark Underbelly.

of whatever, that feels like sometimes like the filmmakers need to pile on ickiness and and like dread and all this sort of stuff. And like there's dread in after hours, but there's a likeness to it that like it all feels, it never feels very like bogged down or

a miserableist. It's just sort of just like, there's a comedic sort of bounce to it. What I kind of grafted onto, and especially the idea of how the fantasy, or like the very precise tone that Scorsese is striking in this movie is it feels very much like

it is a fantasy or a nightmare or some type of, uh, you know, uh, illusion for Griffin Dunn's character, but everybody else is in a reality. Like, they are real, but the experience that he goes through is not in a way. I'm maybe not explaining that very well, but it's, It's like his version of the evening is a, you know. Well, his workplace doesn't even seem real, right? His workplace seems like this kind of like, that's where the sort of like the Kafka of it almost maybe comes in. It's almost like Brazil kind of like German expressionist drudgery or whatever. These big gates that like open and close.

But there's like this divide between his experience and everybody else's experience that it feels like, you know, they exist as real. people and things, but his experience of them are, like, just on the outside of real. Yeah. Yeah, Scorsese and the commentary on the DVD described, one of the things that he really liked about it was that it's about, like, a story that is not, like, the story and the premise is very, very unlikely, but it's not impossible. And I thought that that was, like, a really interesting hook. And, like, it's something that I think excites me about, like, any kind of movie that

tries to manage something like this, where you're watching it, and it feels so absurd and it's like ridiculous but it's not it is not a hundred percent like this could never happen there are not things that are just like told like so far outside the realm of possibility that you can't still somehow like place yourself in those shoes and feel like this is something that could somehow happen this is not yeah unable to happen but it is very unlikely and it is it does feel kind of ridiculous but ridiculous in a way that is terrifying but also amusing and it doesn't ever separate itself from either of those possibilities that this is the scariest thing that's ever happened to this guy, but it's also

kind of ridiculous. There's the one scene where he's like on the fire escape, uh, hiding from the mob that's coming to get him. And he looks into that other apartment and he sees the woman shoot, you know, her partner. And he just says like, I'm somehow I'm going to get blamed for that. And it's like a little like self-aware moment of like, this is ridiculous. Well, it's like any one of these encounters are enough for a whole story of how his night was so horrible. But then it's, you know, seven different encounters that make up an entire night that make one horrible night.

Yeah. I want to talk about this in context of Scorsese's career, though, because it comes at, like, a really sort of, you know, tension point in his career. So he's, he has this string in the 70s where it's sort of like talking about it through the guise of Oscar, right? He directs, obviously, like, Mean Streets is the big sort of like the one everybody looks back at.

It's just like, that's where it all. began. But following that, he directs Ellen Burstin to an Oscar for Alice doesn't live here anymore in 74. 76. My underrated Scorsese. It's so good. It's such a good movie. I wish he would do more stuff like that. It's like five perfect performances in that

movie. Yeah. I watched, we'll talk about the first Independence Beard Awards, but I watched some of it and Diane. Oh, we'll talk about it. Diane Ladd is presenting one of the director award. And I was like, oh, Diane Ladd, you know, her old Alice doesn't live here anymore director. 76 directs taxi driver best picture nomination among four total nominations doesn't get the director nomination quite yet but this sort of kicks off his first Robert De Niro era where it's taxi driver 76 New York New York 77 1980 is Raging Bull where he gets a bunch of Oscar nominations including picture and director and then De Niro wins his second Oscar for that and a lot of people still we talked about this when we talked about Redford last week Chris where

A lot of people are still holding that grudge that Raging Bull got beat by ordinary people for best picture. Ordinary people's better. Ordinary people, that's, I mean, I truck with, I still. I can't, I, I, I, I don't like when people shit on ordinary people, but I can't go that far. And then the king of comedy follows that in 1982, which is another denierre movie. And there, I read a quote in researching for after hours where Scorsese talks about how he came back to his apartment one day and turned on the TV and he turns on it's entertainment tonight and they're talking about coming up after the break the biggest movie flop of the year and he's talking about it and he's like I kept watching after the break because

I wanted to see what the biggest flop of the year was like I was curious and he said he came back and he's like they said the king of comedy they said I was the biggest flop of the year and so you're coming off a king of comedy and at that time he's trying to get the last temptation of Christ made and that falls through and Mitchell I imagine you have more insight into this than I do. But that's sort of where after hours sort of is birthed out of the failure for the first time to get the Last Temptation of Christ made. Yeah. So Last Temptation, they were like, it was pretty much ready to go. They were doing it through Paramount. And they were like getting everything moving. They had locations set up and everything. And the, but the budget just

kept going higher and higher and higher. And Scorsese at that time was, you know, I mean, already one of the biggest directors around coming off of Raging Bull. Like King of Comedy wasn't really like, it wasn't too much of a hiccup for him as far as like how studios saw him. So they kept letting the budget go bigger. But then because of what Last Temptation was, the book and everything, like there were rumblings of people boycotting it. And then like a specific, I can't remember the exact, the theater chain, but one theater,

one of the big theater chains said that they would refuse to play it if they made the movie. And so then at that point, Paramount was basically like, we can't make this movie. like we're not going to get any money back on it if we do make it and we're basically like you know we just can't do it like aiden Quinn was going to sarge jesus instead of will and defoe there was like a bunch of other stuff going on with it but um so then they canned it and then scorsese like went into a hole basically and like that was his big passion project and he had no idea what to do and especially because part of the decision to can it was because of like heaven's gate and the big flop of that and like kind of this shift from the like the

like New Hollywood, like, tour-driven kind of stuff of the 70s where people like Chimino were getting massive checks to make a movie like Heaven's Gate and then it flopped horribly. The directors like that were not getting kind of checks like that anymore. Like they were focusing more on the Star Wars of it all

and like the sci-fi and action movies and everything. But like, who knows how many like, you know, religious denominations were going to denounce it. Yeah. Tell people not to go see it and all that. And so at that time then, after hours was this script like I said, by

Joseph Minion, and it had gotten into the hands of Griffin Dunn. Now Griffin Dunn is this sort of up-and-coming actor he had been in American Werewolf in London. He's the son of Dominic Dunn, who is this sort of like gadfly, media gadfly, writer for Vanity Fair and whatnot.

He's also the nephew of Joan Didion, which is another thing that people maybe don't know that Griffin Dunn's uncle is John Gregory Dunn, who was married to Joan Didion and all the sort of stuff, which I think is very fascinating. But anyway, so Griffin Dunn gets the script and is trying to get this movie made and it was going to be made by Tim Burton,

which I think is really interesting. And essentially, Scorsese gets, the Last Temptation falls through. Scorsese sort of looks at after hours and is like, maybe I can do this. And Tim Burton is essentially just like, yeah, take it. Like, go for it. Which is very cool of Tim Burton, I feel like.

And then Tim Burton goes and makes Peewey's big adventure and everything is good for everybody. I do have to say, because this movie opens with the Geffen logo, which any movie that you see that opens with the Geffen logo, you immediately think of Beatlejuice. Yes, totally. Yeah.

So I just think that's an interesting sort of like what if, but I also just like love that the stories essentially that Tim Burton was just like happily handed it over to Martin Scorsese. I think it's Scorsese. It's Scorsese. Is it Scorsese? Like Rosseco. Crosseco.

Rosseco. Is it Scorsese? Scorsese. Yes, Scorsese. That's what it was. All right, Chris, we're going. we're going to let Mitchell take a break, go gather thoughts and feelings about our after-hours discussion. While we talk about the Vulture Movie Fantasy League, we have our new update for this week.

This will be coming out just before the Oscar nomination. So, like, get this update while at talk. So if you don't listen to this, as soon as it hits your feeds, don't yell at us for being late. Listen, we'll have another update next week. don't worry. Hopefully also if you are signed up for the Vulture Movie Fantasy League, you are getting my newsletters every week. I sent this one out on Friday, so you had all weekend to marinate in this update from the BAFTAs. Ooh, the BAFTAs. England is coming to tell us what was good this year. I'm pretty sure they are going to be telling us largely

the same thing that the Academy is going to be telling us was good this year. So I want to get into this. I want to get into this in a second, but First of all, last week, I'll admit, I was pretty smug making my little bet with you that All Quiet on the Western Front would absolutely not. I have no chance of being the nomination leader at the Oscars. I still don't think it's going to be. But after getting an All About Eve number of nominations from BAFTA this past week and leaving all nominees, I now at least must entertain the possibility that,

you could win this bet to my great astonishment because to the to your lack of $50 I will be putting into your uh bank account but you know if Todd Field doesn't get that nomination I will be giving you that $50 and be giving $50 to a charity of your choice so yes but a lot of things in the air we'll see how it goes here's my question though so movies like the Fabelmans sort of bombed at the box office, in Babylon, right? Bombed at the box office and thus their Oscar chances took a hit because of that, because there's this stench of failure sort of on them, and now we're expecting those movies to get fewer nominations, and then something like she said, which bombs in theaters, and is

maybe going to get no nominations at all. And yet, on the flip side, and the reason of that is nobody saw him, nobody cares. And at the same time, you have a. All Quiet on the Western Front, which is a Netflix movie, which for all intents and purposes, nobody was seen, the same, if we've defined nobody as the same number of people who were seeing Fableman's and she said and Babylon as the people who saw All Quiet on the Western Front. And yet this thing is this big huge success and Netflix is maybe going to push it through to a whole bunch of nominations and a Best Picture nomination and all of that. And none of this has to do exactly with the pool, which is what this update is supposed to be, but I just want to say, why? Why is this happening? What's going on? I think because for a certain type of awards voter, there isn't, as much as it seems like there is, I don't really think that there is a movie for them otherwise this season, because even something like Top Gun is probably too silly for them. These are people who want to consider themselves very serious people, but they're, you know, colloquially

called the steak eaters, you know, this is- I hate that fucking term steak-eaters, but I know what you mean. I don't love it either, because I don't think it's as all-encompassing as it, you know, proposes to be, or is exactly what. Just say straight men, if that's what you want to say. You know what I mean? Like, that's the, for, not you, but, like, the people who sort of, like, peddle in steak-eaters or whatever. It's just sort of like to see straight-brust. And, like, I'm, by no means a Nolan head, but like, why does this movie, you know, get it when Christopher Nolan has struggled for, you know, respect from, you know, the same groups, basically, you know, this movie wants to be a Christopher Nolan movie quite so badly. I kind of felt like I was

watching someone play God of War for two and a half hours. So, I saw it coming, man. Yeah. You, in your infinite wisdom, was like, get Chris on the record about it. I did. I scrambled. the Jets, speaking of Top Club, to get you on the record for this. And like I said, I still do think I'm going to win, but now I'm sweating it. Now I really am sweating it. It's going to be the nomination leader. I hate to break to you. BFTA doesn't mean everything, but I think BFTA is at least a sign of what my hunch was that from those Oscar short lists, it's going to get in all of those categories. It's going to need to get in all of those categories. Is it really going to get

nominated in every single craft's category? No. But everyone had it made a short list for, absolutely. But like, is it going to get costume design? I don't think so. Keep in mind for BAFTA, you know, it's nominated in a category that the Oscars don't have. It's nominated for an acting performance that I really don't think that's going to translate to the Academy. But I do think that director nomination is happening. But, you know, director nomination is on a teetering edge. I don't think that's at all certain. But it could be. Adapted screenplay is so thin this year that it, I guess it could get in, but it's stupid if it does. And have you watched it yet? I thought you haven't seen it. I don't care. I'm just saying it's stupid if it does. I'm just saying. There have to be five better movies. It agrees with you that it would be stupid if it got it. There have to be five better movies. I will see it. I was probably going to see it tonight, but then I have to do podcast movies tonight. We got stuff going on. I do want to watch it before the nominations come out. Once the nominations come out, it's crisis mode.

And I'm going to have to find a way to see stuff like Puss and Boots and the fucking whale and whatnot. One of which I expect to like quite a bit more than the other. Okay, so anyway, I'll quiet on the Western Front. 14 nominations, it gets 180 points. It had up until that point in the league 40 points. So quite a bit of a boost. Now it's like the seventh most or eighth most. point scoring movie in the league

probably one of the best bang for your buck drafts if you have it on your team congratulations I saw there was a big move on the leaderboard and that person has all quiet on the western point we've had our first leaderboard change in several weeks mostly because of well I'll coin on western front it was a three dollar buy so yet one of the best values the year I will say are two other big successes

of the year we're not too far behind especially because because the weighted points valued the sort of top of the ballot awards more than the bottom. So like Banshees of In a Sharon had 170 points. Everything everywhere all at once had 160 points. So those movies stayed in the mix. What didn't stay

in the mix was the fablemen's which British people don't like Steven Spielberg is the thing. It's not a universal thing, but you know, several movies that have landed with Oscar or landed

in like the best picture or best director realm with Oscar did not for Bafta you know like the post was not nominated for anything what else was it that had no nominations I forget but like War Horse wasn't a best picture nominee

loser you know yeah one nomination for the fableman's Paul Dano who was seeming more and more kind of solid for a supporting actor Oscar nomination which I'm happy about but women talking was also another movie that kind of, that bottomed out at BAFTA zero nominations.

RRR didn't get any BAFTA nominations, which I am told it was eligible for more than just the international film, or whatever, their category is film, not in the English language. It was a short list there, but it did not get that nomination or any others. So those movies, which had been doing well in the league thus far, took a hit. And I will say, I love a points update from something like BAFTA. Critics' choice was sort of the same way, where it's like, you've got a billion categories, so many different movies are going to get, like, at least something.

Four movies got their first points of the season thus far, Moon Age Daydream, Amsterdam, Matilda, and see how they run, all got one, wait, until they got two. Matilda got two nominations, the other ones all got one nomination. It was all their first points of the season. I have to imagine anybody who drafted, good luck to you. Leo Grant was very happy with these staff. Good luck to you, Leo Grant got, what, four nominations? It did very well.

Good for that movie. Of 60 points, including Daryl McCormick, getting a Best Actor nomination, which is rad, because like, that's very cool. I love whenever an awards group will sort of go outside the box, which Bafta will for the British movies, largely. I thought After Sun would do better. And now people are kind of poo-pooing its Oscar chances because it didn't do as well as people thought it would do at BAFTA.

That's silly. I think this nomination's going to happen. I hope so. Fingers crossed. As listeners who listen to our episodes the day after they drop her. I know, I know. We're going to be proved right or wrong kind of immediately. What else is I'm looking at this list?

Okay, Gina Prince Bythe-wood gets another Best Director citation. She gets nominated for DaFTA. I'm holding on to a sliver of hope that that is a fifth slot best director nomination at the Oscars that could happen. I don't know if it's not likely, but it's not likely. but it's not so outside the realm of possibility. And so that's my maybe like no guts, no glory pick for director. And I'm kind of hoping it happens. It could happen.

We shall see. I wouldn't be shocked to see the Woman King end up with like four or five nominations. It could get none or it could get four or five. I think there are a few movies like that where like the range is, you know, is pretty big. It could just get in costumes. it could yes but like viola davis i think is on the fringe i think a best picture nomination is on the fringe it's probably on the outside of that fringe same with director but these things could happen what else on that bafta nomination list stood out to you um i mean i didn't like avatar

very much i'll say that they did they did not but they do also only have five nominees in their best film category. True. This is ours in 10. That's maybe the one thing that I like about BAFTA the best is that they stayed. Like, I love the top 10, but I also like a precursor that like holds tight to their own thing, right? Differentiate yourself.

I like it. Oh, so this is my thing that I wanted on a more global scale. And we'll only spend a couple minutes out and then we'll get back to after hours. I wish we didn't put so much. stock in BAFTA nominations as to being what the Oscar nominations are going to be. I understand why, but it kind of bums me out. That like the BAFTA nominations come out and everybody's like, well, that's settled. And I don't know. I don't know if it's necessarily, and it doesn't make any difference because Oscar voting is closed by this time. So it's not like it's affecting

anything. But there is a huge overlap between BAFTA and the Academy. However, BAFTA has very, very different voting practices than the Academy does. And I do believe it's especially in the acting branch, there's a huge overlap too. This is not an answer that anyone's going to like. But BAFTA matters when it doesn't, doesn't when it doesn't. Right. You know, that's like when we say, yeah, a globe when matters when it matters, but doesn't when it doesn't. You know, it's just like it feels like we're just moving target of what the

rules are here. I do think that a movie, like, living doing fairly well at BAFTA could signify it overperforming, even if that overperformance is just like a Sandy Powell costumes nomination. Yeah. She's not nominated at BAFTA, but

it's also... I would love that. Which is very, very good at campaigning with the Academy. I was even weighing today, I was like, is that my 10th slot best picture nominee, I don't know. Oh, wow. I think of the movies that are sort of cuspy that I would really find myself rooting for, I find myself rooting for a bunch of them, because living is one, the woman king, as I mentioned, after son, she said I would love to see overperform. I don't know if it will. And I am still kind of rooting for triangle of sadness. It's been a underperformer all season compared to what it was expected to. We maybe had the

wrong idea with how well that movie was going to perform in the first place. Right, and by we, and by we, you mean globally, because it was not just us. People who care about this. I'm still very much rooting for Wendell and Wilde to show up an animated feature.

I tell you I'd be surprised, but I am rooting for it. At this point, like, I'm starting to feel that way, too, simply because, you know, it's not shown up in a lot of places, and it's sitting right there looking beautiful, and be in a real fun time. sitting there on Netflix for people

and Henry Sallick is a legend and don't know why you wouldn't vote for that movie, but whatever. I could see that category go in a lot of different ways beyond, like Pinocchio's in, Marcel de Shell. There could be G-Kids movie. No one has seen in there. Yeah, exactly, exactly. I'm still, I mean, I'm very paranoid about all the beauty and the bloodshed getting shut out. Well, that was one of your early stances.

Before they shut out previous winners all the time. And I just don't think it's going to be a movie that appeals to rich people. Like, I don't think they're going to get it. Well, but it also appeals to artists. Like, it flatters the idea of, like, artists making a difference. And I do think that that will appeal. I also feel like if I'm a rich person and I'm watching that, and I'm rich enough to be like, oh, I'm worried that my name is going to be taken off

of museums, that's a real thin sliver of the Academy Votership. And it's the documentary branch, right? So, like, they maybe matter a little. They're an unpredictable ranch. They are, but I don't think, I just don't

see enough other documentaries this year kicking up enough dust to make that happen. But we'll see. We'll see. We'll see. I'm very curious to see if Brett Morgan finally gets through because he's been a notorious movie in the past and that Bowie Dock is really popular, and a lot of people saw it, but...

Popular, but as we just said, it just got its first points of the fantasy league the other day. So, like, it hasn't been really killing it in the precursors, so... You know the types of conversations we've had all season long. There's less that I'm rooting for this season, the things I'm rooting against. Yeah. And a lot of things that are probably solid that I might not have felt that were solid a few weeks ago like Daniel Deadweiler, knocking on every piece of wood in a half-mile radius that I am not sounding stupid. I know. I know. I get very suspicious about Daniel Deadweiler. Things like that

sounds safer than they did a few weeks ago. I made the bold prediction on Twitter the other day that Michelle Williams was going to pull a Kate Winslet in the reader and get nominated in supporting. I, if that has happened by now, I expect. You will get full credit for seeing that happening. However, I would think it would be more likely that she would just be blanked than for that to happen. I have put my flag in the sand, and we will see how it shakes out. We will maybe, again, as you are listening to this, you may already know how it's shaken out. So we will be back here next week with our post-mortem on the Oscar nominations.

And of course, we are going to have our class of 2022 episodes. a full-ass episode coming out soon that is going to address what happened at the Oscar nomination. So if you want more from this from us, keep on listening. So for now, Chris, any less. And soon, go to moviegame.com to check out your Oscar nomination. Check out where you are. I have now ascended to second among vulture staffers.

Nate Jones, I'm coming for you. It's going to happen. Otherwise, yeah, enjoy the Fantasy League, moviegame. vulture.com, as Chris said. And from there, you can click to a landing page and see the scores and see where you stand and see what's coming up in terms of points and enjoy. And now, back to Griffin Dunn and his never-ending urban nightmare. Bye-bye.

Back to Plaster of Paris. Yes. Plaster of Paris, not a bad drag name. Is it Scorsese? Yes, Scorsese. Yes, Scorsese. You know, he has this. indie success with After Hours, where at the, even if reviews were kind of mixed, and we'll talk

about the reviews a little bit and a little bit, but like, I think it's respected in crucial corners. And then in 86, he directs the color of money, wins an Oscar for Paul Newman, all sorts of goodwill for that. And then he finally gets to make the Last Temptation of Christ. And the world didn't end. And the Vatican didn't crumble. And I remember though, I was so 88 is when Last Temptation comes out. So I was eight years old. And to the degree that I wasn't really paying attention to, like, film at that age yet. But I remember being a Catholic, the way people talked about that movie was in this sort of like, these dangerous sort of like hushed tones, the way that people would talk about Selman Rushdie to a little bit, where it's like,

when they would talk about the Satanic verses. And it's just like, as a little kid, I was like, oh, the Last Temptation of Christ, like, there's something maybe evil about that movie. even though it wasn't like I was being told by my parents. You watch The Last Temptation of Christ and seven days later Right. And it's like I didn't have like Holy Roller parents or anything of that but I just remember that like as somebody who

grew up in a Catholic sort of like situation like that's the way people talk about was just like oh the last temptation of Christ you know that kind of a thing. So I was always like a little bit like as a kid almost like spooked by that movie and it's just sort of like and then I finally saw it and it's just like oh like it's fine. Yeah.

I mean people yeah people burn down theaters that were playing that. People died burning down theaters. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm like crazy shit. Yeah. And then sort of, then we get into the 90s and Goodfell's happens and I think that kicks off a different era. But so this mid-80s moment for Scorsese, I think is pretty crucial. And as I said, like, it becomes part of like the myth of Scorsese and that like this was the small movie that kind of was a transition out of one phase of his career into another and nobody really talks about it very much and then when people were able to revisit it it also just seems and maybe like you guys can talk about maybe i'm like up a creek on this it seems like

a scorsese movie in some ways but then like very different than the other ones in other ways yeah a million percent i mean every it's almost like everything about this movie in terms of like a matter of design construction feels very much like it belongs to him and yet none of his other movies are like this movie, which is partly why it's so fun to watch and rewatch. How many of his movies feature a cameo by himself in it? Quite a few, right? Is it quite a few? Okay.

I was trying to think of which ones. Yeah, like taxi driver, he's playing more of like a character. Right. He's a little bit above a cameo. Right. Hugo, he's definitely in as a cameo. Right. Yeah, I can't remember any more.

The other one I keep thinking of is Quis Show, which is not his movie. I went back and watched his big scene in Quishishow last night after watching this because you saw, because he has such a, like, Hitchcockian cameo in After Hours, where it's like he's operating the spotlight. I mean, the thing, too, is that he kept talking about After Hours as, like, his Hitchcock movie. Like, he was, like, within terms of how he was structuring the cinematography and Howard Shore's score and everything, it was him taking, like, hitchcock and doing, like, a little bit of, like, a subversion of it in his own way. So it feels, like, a nice kind of mix of those things. things. He's so good in that quiz show scene, though.

I watched it again. He's so fucking good. The one with him and Rob Morrow, where he's essentially just like, you know, these people will be come and gone and television is going to remain, and Geritol will remain and all this sort of stuff. And I was just like, it's a really, really well, it's like a, it's a riveting scene. What a great movie I wanted to watch. Quiz show kind of a masterpiece on it.

Yes, I love that movie. I've seen him in a long time. It is so good. After Hours also feels partly like it's Scorsese's Pervert movie or Scorsese's Hitchcock movie because he's constantly, like, asking himself, wait, am I a pervert in the way that, like, Hitchcock seems to always be doing it, but, like, Hitchcock is maybe a little bit more like, am I a pervert, yes, I am a pervert. I am a pervert. I sometimes see people getting hung up on the castration metaphor of after hours in a way where, like, it's, it's definitely there. I don't feel, I don't know, maybe I'm giving this movie a lot of leeway, but, like, I don't think it's ever in that really sort of, like, unpleasant. presently like male id kind of a thing of just like oh we're like being very like you know it's a male character being very worried about you know these women around him and they're all trying to get him and they're all trying to cast her in whatever and so like it doesn't seem that heavy to me

i mean i think that's what the movie is like all of these different encounters are you know some type of subconscious you know fear of that but i do think that the movie is very much like satirizing that and not on necessarily the side of that but like, you know, showing the ridiculousness of it. You know, the ridiculousness of the like, this smells like, it is. Go ahead, Joe.

No, well, I was just going to very quickly just say, like, I don't know whether Griffin Dunn realizes that when he casts, when he's, you know, he was the one producing the movie, so obviously he had a hand in the casting of it. I don't know if Griffin Dunn necessarily realizes that like when he's the center of your movie, you're only going to really have so much sympathy

for the main character. And it's nothing against Griffin Dunn, but he plays these kind of characters where it's just sort of like, you know, you seem like you're kind of a shit. Yeah, 100%. Like, he's, that's the thing that's so great about his performance in it because he's riding this like thread

where you feel bad for him and you want him to get out of here because you like you want anybody to get out of this situation. Like it seems horrific. But he also is kind of an asshole. Like the way that he leaves or is in Arquette is fucked up and like just like say that you're

going home or whatever. The signs when he writes up the signs like dead body arrow this way. Yeah. Where it's just like and the funny thing is that by the end of the movie with the mob coming after him, they're coming after him because they think he's burglarizing all of these apartments. Not because

he like is the suspect in this woman's death. Like they all seem to realize that like she killed herself. Like even when John Hurd's on the phone he's like my girlfriend killed herself. And I was like, oh but like You know, it's funny that that's what they're after him for, rather than, like, maybe, you know, being under suspicion for killing Rosanna. But he's also super mean to her, like, yeah. That's the thing.

Like, the thing with, like, the, and the thing that eventually gets him to, like, finally leave. Like, there's, you know, little weird things going on, but that make it seem, like, not, you know, it's not all roses. But the thing that gets him to finally leave is, like, the thing with the burn stuff. And, like, him thinking that she has, like, some sort of, like, burn victim. And, like, he's uncomfortable with it. leaves, and, like, that's fucked up. Like, that's... Well, and then she's lying there, the dead body, and he, like, pulls the blanket

off of her to see if she has the burns. Yeah, oh, my God. I was like, you, little motherfucker. Like... I watched it. I see this movie, like, ten times, and I watched it, um, with my partner, like, a while back, and when that seed happened, they were like, fuck this guy. Like, I'm fucking sick of it.

Seriously. Seriously. Um, all of the supporting actors in this movie are so good. I didn't realize Linda Fiorentina was in this movie until I started watching. The female cast is amazing. Kiki Bridges is such a fun character name. She's rad, man. Was she, like, known before this, or was this a big breakthrough for her?

I think this was kind of a big one for her. I don't know if she was in, like, a ton of stuff before this. But, yeah, I think that the cast in this, that's part of why I think it also feels like a little bit, like, left of center for Scorsese, because it's not huge names, right? It's like people who you know from stuff, like John Hurd was in, Chili scenes a winner and stuff like that, which was Griffin Dunn and Amy Robinson produced movie. And obviously, Don was in American World of London and everything. But, like, it's not De Niro and, you know, Harvey Keitel and Ellen Burst.

Well, not only not big names, but people who wouldn't be in any other Scorsese movies, too. Or hadn't been at that point. Okay, 1985, Linda Fiorentino is in both After Hours and Vision Quest, and that was her breakthrough year. That was her first year, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Vision Quest, her and Matthew Modin, and Madonna's crazy for you. Matthew Modin would be good in After Hours. Yes, 100%.

Oh, my God, absolutely. Terry Gar and her little out of time. Every once in a while, you'll see a character in this movie, and it's just like, could they be a ghost? And, like, Terry Gar is the most, could they be a ghost of all these people? Where she's just sort of, like, haunting this little dive bar or whatever, writing notes about like I hate my job help me like that kind of thing um Terry fucking Gar man no one gives it like who do we have giving Terry Gar line readings that are just so perfect

so funny and it's uh yeah and you get Terry Gar and Catherine O'Hara in the same movie like that's just flawless Catherine O'Hara playing the only normal person she has ever played in her entire career and then there's the thing with him him in her place and he's calling the operator and getting like his friend's number and her doing the thing of saying the numbers to throw him off while he's putting the number. That is like the most Catherine O'Hara thing. Yes. And it's so irritating. It's so annoying. And it's like he's almost out. And I also love that she drives the Mr. Softty truck and actually calls it the Mr. Softty truck, not like some like generic like ice cream truck name or whatever because those are the ones that would always be around my

neighborhood. But wait, oh, the shot in Terry Gar's apartment where all of a sudden they cut to the rat traps next to the bed. And it's the funniest, because it's like, it's so many rat traps. There's so, and they're just like all right there next to the bed. And you're just like, in that one little shot, it's so funny, but it's just like, what a nightmare existence it must be. There's so many moments like that that are just like so uncomfortable in this, that kind of like unreality way that is like sort of real. Like the Linda Fiorentino, when he first gets there and he's like giving her the massage and like taking off, the fact that he takes off one of her bra straps is like that that is like, that is like, that is like, that. makes me queasy and like stop doing this well like and then she falls asleep and just this idea of

her like falling asleep on him he's on the couch and then rosanna rickette gets home and she doesn't acknowledge it like she gives like a look that is like she she notices it but she doesn't say anything about it they don't talk about it it's not like a thing where he has to explain like oh no no no like i wasn't trying to do anything she fell asleep and it's that thing where it's like i don't think this is how that would happen in real life he also gets up and then sits back down next to her for some reason it's just like goes somewhere else man you're so weird. That scene also, that's the scene where he seems like he's trying to like make a move on her

by telling her this story about like being in a burn ward when he was younger or whatever. And it's just like, and he's doing this while he's massaging her and like is about to like make a move on her before he realizes she's fallen asleep. And it's like, is that your like go-to story? She's like you're telling her about being in a burn ward, you're freaking weirdo. He's like, you have great skin and she's like, yeah, no scars. No, she's like hardly any scars, I think, is what she, all right. Yeah. And then talking about, and that's, yeah, that's where it gets in her, his head that Rosanna Arquette. It's just the weirdest. I mean, for both of them, too, because then when Rosanna Arquette and him get into her bedroom, she, like, immediately goes into telling the story of how her ex-boyfriend snuck through the window and, like, raped her. And she fell asleep during, like, he raped her for hours all night, and she, like, fell asleep during it. And it's like, that's very uncomfortable. And then they go to the diner where she tells, maybe my favorite seat of the movie is the fucking surrender Dorothy.

scene, where she's talking about her husband. Her ex-husband. And that's the only way that he can come is by shouting, surrender, Dorothy. And, oh, my God, it's so good. I myself can only come if I shout there's no place like home. Can't fully relate, but you're kind of there. And then the Verna Bloom scene towards the

end, too, where she's this sort of, again, maybe a ghost living in the back of this club, where it's just like she's, you know, she's just waiting there. And she's like, she's there all the time. You know what I mean? It's, you know, and then they have this very sort of like kind of chill conversation a little bit and a little sort of eerie and then is that all there is the song is that all there is starts playing and like that song

in it's sort of like speaking into singing so like it's it's straddling both worlds in that way it's very good um and then she looping back to rosanna arquette though bafta nominated for this movie which is wild, but so cool. And Independent Spirit Award nominated for lead, which is bizarre. Well, because they didn't have supporting categories. It was only lead categories. Because it was only seven categories that year. All right.

Let's talk about this now. Let's just go into it. The very first Independent Spirit Awards were this year, after ours wins best feature. That's sort of the, it's one of the sort of footnotes in this movie's great long story, as that it was the inaugural Independent Spirit Award, winner for best feature. To my extreme surprise, the entire awards ceremony, and I'm using fantastic Mr. Fox quotes marks for this, is available on YouTube through the Independent Spirit

Awards YouTube page. It is 90 minutes, a good 70 of which is just talking about like the state of, you know, the business or whatever, and, like, Peter Coyote is hosting and he's saying these, like, really, like, you know, interesting things about, like, how important it is to make independent film. But it's also, like, the guy from the film board of Arkansas gets up and makes a speech. And, like, the guy from Eastman Kodak, who is sponsoring the event, gets up and makes a speech. And there's only seven awards. Hardly anybody's there. M.M. at Walsh is there. Geraldine Page is there to accept. But neither Joel Cohen. Does that Murray Abraham also give her award

and grandstand to make it all about themselves. No, but when she accepts, she kind of says the same thing about like, look what Horton did, because I think that's how she begins her Oscar Accepted speech too. She says, look what Horton did and looking at the award. She was giving in a dry run. She was doing the thing that she was revolutionizing award show. It was.

By doing the dry run for her Oscar speech. Oh, and the team from Kiss of the Spider Woman is all there because there's like seven of them. Which was interesting. And Sonia Braga. Yeah, they all showed up. Yeah, Sonia Bragg is there and all these people. And Griffin Dun and Amy Robinson were there, but Scorsese was not. Right. Yes, Scorsese was not.

Interesting that Kiss of the Spider Woman is the first winner for their best international film category, because it wouldn't have been a U.S. production. A beat out Ron. Beat out Corosawa's wrong. Yeah, beating out Ron is some bullshit, I'm sorry. But, you know, good for you all. The other thing, when so Diane Ladd and Dee Wallace are up to present the director award. The tension between the two of them.

It's amazing. It's like low-key tension. Diane Ladd filibusters for about seven minutes about whatever. Just like this long, sort of like rambling speech. She quotes the Pope at one point. And then she makes mention of like my best production is my daughter, Laura Dern, who is at the table right here. And they don't cut because they only have one static camera. Like that's all they have budget for.

This is in like the back room of a restaurant and like not even that fan. fancy of a restaurant. It's amazing that this is on YouTube. And so she points out that Laura Dern is there with her date, Kyle McLaughlin, because they were about to be in Blue Velvet together. Blue Velvet hadn't even come out yet. And she's talking about, like, you know, her talented, her talented date, Kyle McLaughlin, who was in the movie Dunes, Plurl. It just made me laugh. I love Diana. I love that so much. Yeah, I love that she, go ahead, yeah. I was going to say she also has the big glasses that she has in National Imprens Christmas vacation.

she's yeah the the monologuing where she quotes the pope she's like talking about how like film independent is like the most important and vital group not just of the decade but maybe of the century yeah because of the work that they're doing and then she says that what she likes the most about the group is its lack of pretentiousness yep 100% you like you can absolutely start at the 40 minute mark of this thing and just sort of like just fast forward until you at least see peter coyote you will miss very little peter peter coyote's open opening monologue is like a 10-minute monologue about Zen Buddhism, which is like so unwieldy. Also, there's, so there's like the Independent Spirit Award. It is the energy we need of the Spirit Awards today. The Independent Spirit Award statue that we know today was existence from the very beginning where it's like this winged creature atop this column or whatever. And Peter Coyote spends about a minute and a half describing it.

But before he does that, there's another award that gets given to like a more, I don't know, like more like technical or maybe like on a grant basis or something like that to a couple other things that is called the findi that they called the findi and and so he also describes even though like they're in a room they're just just showing the people but like he's describing it and so the logo of this thing was a piece of shoestring because a shoestring budget is what independent filmmakers have to work with a piece of shoestring inside a crystal whatever fake Crystal Pyramid. And he's sort of

talking about that. He's just like that probably has meaning on some like metaphysical level or something like that. He's just really like filibustering in these really fun ways. I can't recommend it highly enough. Mitchell, I'm so glad you also watched it. No, I appreciate it. Yeah, you dropped it into a little DM with me and Chris this morning and I

was very glad that I had time to watch it before we recorded this because I wanted to be just DMing the both of you like the entire time like, can you fucking believe this shit? I mean, we'll talk about it later. But it is, yeah, I echo Joe, like, everybody should watch this. It is incredible that they let this out into the world. I love it so much.

I'm looping back and watching it. I unfortunately did not have time to stay. You absolutely should. So, oh, Griffin Dunn is nominated for the Golden Globe for Best Actor in a Musical or Comedy. And wait, did I bring that up? I want to bring that one up for a second because he's nominated up against Jack Nicholson for Pritzie's honor who wins. James Garner for Murphy's Romance, which I believe Garner goes on to an Oscar nomination for that as well.

Yeah, he does. Jeff Daniels for the Purple Rose of Cairo. Michael J. Fox for Back to the Future. That's a solid lineup for the Golden Globes. Like I have to say, like that lineup is pretty like, that holds up well today, I will say. That's not bad. To go that with also Griffin done for After Hours,

like that's pretty good. That's the only Globe nomination. Yeah, it's a cool nomination. I would have loved to be the only one too That's really interesting Yeah However after hours The same is not true

For the best motion picture musical or comedy category For after hours to not show up there It's Prezzie's honor Back to Prezzi's honor wins Back to the future A chorus line I love it Cuckoon

And Purple Rose of Cairo Which like I will go to bat for the gorse line movie being a lot of fun. Not particularly good. Cuckoon, sorry that I am anti-funn, but could you not like Caccoons? Oh, I like Cacoon. I think that's a good movie.

I've never seen it. That's one that I need to get around. It was on TV a lot when I was younger, so I watched a bunch. That makes sense. It feels like a movie. That's weird for kids to be watching that movie. At least 40% of the plot of that movie is Erections. Like, that's the movie where everybody points out that, like, Willfer Brimley was like only like 51 or something like that. You have a boner too. Like Donamichie wins an

Oscar for saying boners 17 times in that movie. He sure does. That's a cast though. It's Wilford Brimmy, Hume Cronin, uh, Gwen Verden, Jessica Tandy, Maureen Stapelton. Gutenberg. Guttenberg, Brian Dennehy. Goodenberg does look really hot in that movie. Brian Dennehy, doesn't Brian Dennyhee play like the head of the aliens or whatever in like human form? I'm pretty sure. Maybe. The aliens look. so bad. Oh, as aliens, yes. That's why they mostly show them

in, like, human form or whatever. I love cocoon. I don't know if I love cocoon. I really like Coon. I'm backing off of that immediately. Gary, if you love cocoon, do not get in my mention. So this is the same year as desperately seeking Susan. So, like, quite a year for Rosanna Arquette.

Both Rosanna Arcutt and Linda Fiorentino were fucking killing it in 1985. That's really good. Good for them. Yeah. And this feels like a nice double feature with us really seeking Susan where that is also like that that more openly is a little bit like a little bit supernatural kind of in a way but like like like a little bit like mystical um with like the amnesia of it all and everything but it still is again like that same kind of thing of like yeah and highly

implausible but like a little bit possible like just a little bit like in this reality that is sort of left of center and rzanne arc had so good in that what a good movie that is one of the reviews that i read mentioned that in fact that like Rosanna Arquette, who's like First Lady of Soho at this point, like First Lady of Downtown, New York. Rosanna Arquette also always makes me think of the Independent Spirit Awards because she was the one who presented Ali Sheedy with that 20-minute-long acceptance speech for high art, which I watched again. The American Spirit Awards are so crazy. I was just thinking when I was watching the ones, the first ones, and like Peter Coyote and Diane Lodge is going on and on, I kept thinking about Derek Connolly's screenplay award win for Safety Not Guaranteed and just like watching that. and being mystified.

But people wouldn't be able to handle how long Ali She'd be talked when she went for high art. She legitimately is like over 20 minutes. It's so incredibly. That's the kind of thing you can do when you're just like, you're on IFC. You're hanging out in a 10. It doesn't have anything going on for the rest of the evening.

So like they're just going to let you go on. What's interesting about this first indie spirit awards is that it's basically four movies. That's the interesting thing too. They hadn't really figured it out. No. It feels like it's like it's like. like a committee of like 20 people. One of them's Diane Ladd.

So like smooth talk is getting a lot of nominations. Kind of respect for them like growing into whatever they became then because off of that. Right. Yeah. I mean, I would take that over like the, the run from like 2012 to 2016 where they were just like, they got into that pocket of just predicting the Oscars for like four years.

Like the Silver Line's Playbook year was like such bullshit. I've soapboxed about this before. Yeah. Because you can just pay $100 and vote for the, yeah. You're supporting film independent, which is great, but, like, you open up the voting to awards, and it's, they're going to get less money. And you raise the budget cap to like 25 million, so that's something like Silver Lines Play can get in. It's like people who can go see Silver Linings Playbook when it's in 2000 theaters after hours, any win that it got. But it does even feel for the mid-80s a weird thing that it's winning Indie Spirit Awards, not just because it's Scorsesey, but it opens with a David. Geffen logo. Right.

I will say, it feels weird in the way that, like, Megan Ellison gave somebody $25 million, and it's somehow independent. Right, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm always going to stick up for the Independent Spirit Awards, probably because they were so formative for me in the early years when I was really getting into film.

Me too. They're still my favorite, like, awards kind of org or whatever. And they still, at the very least, in the nomination stage, do still throw out awards. Like, when Andrea Reisboro wins Best Actress for two, Leslie. We're all going to like fucking goop and gag. We're recording this on like the day that that movie. Is that a small film with a quiet heart? Or what is that a quiet film with a large heart or whatever the fuck?

We're recording this on the day that the Andrew Ariseboro campaign really like crested into the public view and it has been wild and crazy kids. Francis Fisher got the gatling gone out and it's just tearing through everybody. Yes. But we've also reached the hall monitor stage where people are, you know, shaming people for people for having some fun with this. It's, oh my God, it's so fucking crazy. Like, as if this is any different than the majority of

awards campaigning, like, it's just a blast. It's just very fun. It's just so that it's out of nowhere, and by out of nowhere, we mean, by a matter of nothing, to suddenly... It's objectively weird and funny, and like, I love that. It's like, it's like

Melissa Leo in photo negative, where it's like, instead of one person considering for herself, it's all these other people considering for this. The fact that it is very clear copy pasting of the same, like, tweet of so many different, like, random assets. Like, we're running out of time. It's for an auspric season. Copypacing is okay.

Time is up the essence. Yeah, she was like, yeah, so what if it's copypacing? For our listeners who don't understand what we're talking about, there, uh, the very, very small little independent movie to Leslie, starring Andrea Reisborough that is nominated for Best Actress at the Independent Spirit Awards is at the moment in the middle of the Oscar voting window, the recipient of a word of mouth campaign, the likes of which we have never seen before, among actors and actresses in Hollywood. And it has been glorious to see, full of copy-pasted tributes to this wonderful performance. For the most random assortment of actor, Dulay Hill, Edward Norin, Macarrow.

Yes, that's the other thing that makes it funny. It's like Madlands. It's like it's the most... It's like a Drew Drokey Chloe lineup. Kind of, yeah, yes. Joe Montania. It's like the weirdest group of people.

It's not like, yeah, the usual like the Julia Roberts pumping for like Javier Barden or whatever, like stuff like that. Like that makes more sense. A-listers on A-listers, yes. Yeah, this is so fucking random. It makes you want to like burrow into like, how does she know this person from this person? What's the connection? Yeah, I'm like, okay, so she, Norton was in Birdman with her.

Yeah, Norton was in Birdman with her, for sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Kate Winslet just filmed the war photographer movie that Kate Winslet has been attached to for a long time. They finally made that movie. And Francis Fisher is Kate Winslet's Titanic Mom. So, like, that's where that, like, sits in. And, like, it's like, my six degrees brain is really, really working over time. Can I ask you, do you guys, so I know this is just kind of popping off now.

but so we'll see like how traction tracks or anything but are you guys considering predicting Andrea Riceboro right now she's going to be on my nerd list when I make my big long list of things to check off on Oscar nomination morning I'm not going to leave her off of it because like I think I might predict her honestly this episode drops the day before Oscar nominations come out which means we will somehow have to do a a you know unpacking on our Class of 2022 episode, which we'll air next week, of if we're going to be doing a two Leslie episode or not, which, you know, as Joe posited to me, we're not against the idea of our first class of 2022 movie that we do an episode on being too Leslie.

Yeah, if two Leslie falls just short is absolutely going to be our very first 2022 movie that we talk about. How disappointing would it be if she didn't get nominated, but it got like an editing non-suggested and do an episode. Right. Right. Well, okay. So to answer your actual question, I would say this has truly not come out of the woodwork until the day that nominations went live for the academy. So that to me says, no. It's not going to happen. Just because there's a really small window. You know, narratives are already set in place and have been there for like building and building for months. So like I don't see. This is going to test. the power of whisper networks. We're going to see, we're going to see how powerful the Hollywood group texts really are. And how long they've been going, too. Yeah. So that to me says that,

you know, it's, it doesn't really have. The other thing that's so funny about it, and this is like, I love, and I've said before, I love Andrea Reisbrough. I've loved her in a lot of things. I would have nominated her. We're happy for Andrea Reisbrose. For the Brandon Cronerberg movie that she did. I thought she was really great in that. Possessor. So fucking good. But it is, it does feel like somebody threw a dart at a dartboard of all the independent movies made this year and just like said it on that one. It's like, why this and not Mary Kay Place and Diane a couple of years ago? Why this and not, you know, um, uh, Alfry Woodard and Clements.

Right. It's just like, it just feels like, yeah. And that to me makes it funnier. And it's not me like, I'm not denigrating Andrea Rysebrose. I fucking love Andrea Riceborough. Andrew Riceborough has never given a bad performance. She is good in W.E. It's just, it's just a.

She's great in oblivion. Like, I think she rules in that. Oh, yes. You know who else is, though? Melissa Leo, it's all coming together. It's all coming together. We figured it out. We are a cooperative team or whatever she says.

But yeah, it is, it's not like, for it to, Andrea Rysbro to seem like somebody who it's never going to happen for her because, like, where the hell did this come from? It could happen for anything for her and we would be happy. Yeah. It doesn't feel like it's like. Jennifer Aniston and cake or whatever where like okay like it makes sense that people are like stumping this hard for her obviously she has connections that she's built in for like decades like the the rise road all does feel really fucking random yeah I love it though that's so funny to me it's very fun it's the most fun thing that's happened I mean this has kind of been a fun award season but it's yeah it's a very fun twist on it is getting dangerously close to cats trailer like it's wonderful it's wonderful it's wonderful I spent a good hour today just scrolling through Francis Fischer's tweets and replies to have on her Twitter because she is replying to so many people mad that they are like laughing about it or like questioning it whatsoever. It's a fun time. I wasn't around in 1987 when Sally Kirkland was self-financing her own campaign to get nominated for the Best Actress Award. So like I need like this is fun for me. Let me have this, you know. Again, by having fun with it or.

calling it random or absurd doesn't mean that we are against Andrea Riceborough. Like, people can't... I'd be thrilled if you don't have two thoughts at once. Like... Wait, I want to dip back into the BAFTA nomination that Rosanna Arquette got because I want to... The other nominees,

there were two from a Room with a View. It was Judy Dench and Rosemary Leach and then Barbara Hershey for Hannah and her sisters. I only recently watched a Room with a View over the summer. It was one of my... I watched like five movies or four movies that I had never seen before on my birthday because I had nothing to do on my birthday it was really great

That was when I watched Casablanca for the first time It was really wonderful Judy Densh is so much fun in a room with a view Like it's a fun movie It's a fucking rock It's a great movie Daniel D. Lewis is really good in that Daniel Day Lewis is tremendous

and makes me wish that he had done like seven more movies where he was that type of a character that's sort of like prissy little bitch Like I loved it so much It was great what a wonderful What a wonderful movie

Fantastic Just a fantastic So I imagine that did quite well At the BAFTAs that year Maggie Smith won best actress For a room of view That was heavily in the The Merchant Ivory Sweet Spot

In that era What else should we talk about? I want to talk about the reviews a little bit Ebert went to bat for this movie Which is not surprising he often is sort of like finger on the pulse of that kind of thing. The quote that I pulled that I thought was really good, he said,

this is the work of a master filmmaker who controls his effects so skillfully that I was drained by this film, so emotionally depleted that there was a moment two-thirds of the way through when I wondered if maybe I should leave the theater and gather my thoughts and come back later for the rest of the quote comedy. So like, you can see why, even when the raves are like, this movie stressed me the fuck out, where like you can see where like people would be like is that

did you like that like is that something that I would enjoy and then the other review that I pulled quotes from was Vincent Canby is at the Times who like Rotten Tomatoes listed as a fresh and like I'm not entirely sure that's why I put asterisks next to the Rotten Tomatoes score of this movie because it's like first of all you're talking about a movie that's like 40 years old at this point and they'll allow reviews that are written you know 40 years after the movie right exactly so like it's not a real score

and also the fact that, like, you're looking at this Vincent Canby Review, which is, like, the definition of mixed. And it's, like, fresh, I guess. And yet he's saying, like, it's not ultimately a satisfying film, but it's often vigorously unsettling. I like how he uses, but it's often vigorously unsettling. That's the positive part, which, like, I kind of like that. I kind of like the idea that, like, vigorously unsettling isn't necessarily bad. In this season of homogenized pap, wow, shots fired at, I don't know, Tripto Bountiful or something. That should be read as praise.

His other quote that I pulled was, The answers provided by the film aren't equal to the questions. After Hours is at best an entertaining tease with individually arresting sequences that are well acted by Mr. Dunn and the others, but which leave you feeling somewhat conned. There is no satisfying resolution to the tension as effectively built up here as it was in The King of Comedy,

Raging Bull, and Taxi Driver. I don't necessarily agree with that. that, actually. I don't, but I also don't think that those are useful comparisons. I understand it, and it's like, we wouldn't compare them now because we've had more decades with Scorsese, and Scorsese has made two or three times the amount of movies that he had made at that point. But, like, I mean, maybe you could draw some parallels to taxi driver, but it's just like, if you did,

then you're immediately struck by two or three more times of things that make these movies completely different. So it's just like, it's a set up for failure to compare to those movies. It's not the same breed. Yeah, it's like you're going in, expect, it's the whole thing of what you're expecting versus what it is and, like, judging a movie based on what you, like, wanted or expected it to be rather than just, like, taking it for what it is.

It is like the, I like to double feature it with the Staffie Brothers Goodtime because they both are very like the all night thing, which like I love all night movies, but also like that that propulsive energy feels very similar. And like Good Time too does have some like threats of comedy. It's definitely a darker movie. But it is like they both feel like that is that energy and the intentional like unsettling nature of it is extremely effective in both. I could understand a certain restlessness, both with audiences and critics, that, you know, this follows King of Comedy, and Scorsese is, you know, not so much making these overt comedy. I mean, After Hours is a comedy, but not, like, comedies in the conventional sense, but using comedic tools to do something very different. And it's coming, like, a little bit after, like, Raging Bull obviously was massive, like, one of the most acclaiming movies ever, but, like, New York, New York was before. for that, which was like a huge flop.

So, like, they're a little bit, like, kind of... And for audiences, like, New York, New York, and King of Comedy were seen as, like, fuck you's. Yeah. And, you know, maybe not for all critics, you know, I don't think New York, New York was critically super well accepted, but, um, yeah, so, like, you could understand how the audience would maybe be underprepared for what Scorsese's doing. Right.

For in this movie. Yeah. But, yeah, I don't know. I want to talk about the ending for a second because, um, uh, Apparently, that was the subject of some debate how they should end the movie. Michael Powell, who had married Telma Schoonmacher around this time that they were making the movie, sort of offered his input. Michael Powell, who directed Black Narcissus and The Red Shoes,

and then directed Peeping Tom, and they never let him make another movie again. And the question was, like, should he end up back at work? And would that make sense both thematically or even really? I like the fact that like the logistics of it are just like, well, he ends up in the back of Cheech and Chong's van and just sort of falls out at one point and like breaks out of the plaster. But when I realized that because he sort of falls out of the van and you're just like, well, that was convenient and he breaks out of the plaster and you're sort of looking at. And then when the second you realize that like it's in front of those gold gates that then are opening first thing in the morning, it's, I. gasped out loud in like the most delighted way where I was just like, oh my God, he's back at work. And it's the most like, the idea that this like corporate drudgery, you know, word processing job where these, you know, droning little computer terminals or whatever greet him is this salvation for him, right?

Where he's just like, thank God, thank God I got to go back to where like life makes sense for me again or something like that. I was kind of delighted by it. Yeah, I think that it's the perfect ending. I was reading on, like, there's some details about some of the other endings. There's one that, like, made it to the storyboard stage where Paul was apparently going to go inside Verna Bloom's womb, and then she was going to give birth to him on, like, the side of the highway. And that feels like it would maybe stretch a little bit too far into unreality. I think, I mean, God bless Michael Powell, I think this is a perfect way to end.

Like, it feels like it, because you're watching the movie, too. And you're, like, imagining how he's ever going to get out of this, how, you know, what the destination for the movie is, like, how he's ever going to get home or if he's just going to die or whatever. And, like, there was another ending where he just stays inside of that plastic repair sculpture that she makes with him in it. And, like, Chechen Chong never come and get him. The movie just ends with him in that.

And I feel like him getting, like, this feels like the perfect, like, full circle kind of ending. And when you see it, it's that thing of, like, this is the only way it feels like it could have ended. Well, with the Wizard of Oz references, he's got to end up home at some point. It's funny to me that home ends up being the office and not like his apartment. Right. Like that seems like it's telling in a certain way. Well, like Mitchell, what you were saying, the full circle moment of it, you know, there is a certain type of, you could call it circling the drain, but also a cyclical nature to the movie because it's super episodic, but it's

also like it's the perfect ending because it gives this suggestion that he's on this constant cycle in a larger sense too like this isn't just one night maybe this is you know what his life is like uh everything he did this the night before we just didn't see that movie yeah i also love it's such a small little scene but like the interior decor of his apartment feels very like mid 80s bland like this very sort of like that boxy couch that he has, where I'm looking at him, just like, that doesn't look comfortable at all. No wonder you were, like, dying to get out of your apartment and go anywhere else in this, like, bland, upper-e side existence that you're living.

Yeah, I think that's, that's, that, yeah, that's a fun point, because it reminds me of, like, when, like, I was younger and single and just, like, home alone and just, like, you're just kind of sitting there, like, with yourself, and you're like, I don't know, I just want to get out of here and, like, go do something. Yeah. And, like, hoping for something exciting and fun to happen. And then sometimes you very much regret it. And you're like, I wish I had just stayed home and, like, read a book at home.

One thing that I really love to, um, is that in for like, details for his performance. I love that done, like, when they were pitching it to Scorsese and like going through the process of like talking him through it, he was very nervous about like, at one point he wanted to make sure, just like double check with Scorsese like, hey, you know like I'm going to be playing the character. Like he was thinking that Scorsese was like maybe thinking that De Niro was going to play. Sure. Well, of course, at that point in Scorsese's career, how could you not imagine that? So, Dunn was like, you know, like, you also know that I'm going to play like the leader that's like, oh, yeah, of course. Like, I, yeah, I know. I've seen you and like, like, I've seen America Werewolf in London. Like, I never thought otherwise. But yeah, Bobby, sure, Bobby. I'll definitely pass you, Bobby. One of my favorite things is that Scorsese asked Griffin Dunn to not have sex

during the entire, like, shooting of the movie to try and like give him that nervous. kind of energy for it and he doesn't know it's on the commentary and he said he doesn't know if he like abided by that or not he probably thinks that he didn't but he hopes that he did

and I just love the idea of a director being like hey and also it would be great if you just didn't fuck for like two months please do me a favor no fucking no fucking for this entire shoot

I just I'm just imagining Scorsese and that sort of like very like amped up way I'm just like here's an idea just throwing it out there Don't have sense. I love that. Wait, I was going to...

Oh, Griffin Dunn, I just wanted to throw out there because we may not have a better excuse to... Director of Practical Magic, among other things. So, like, just, you know, need to throw that out there. If you have visions of Diane Weist and Stocker Channing dancing around a kitchen island to live in the coconut, Griffin Dunn is the reason why. He's got a really fascinating career.

I didn't realize... I think I keep... real, like, finding out and then forgetting that he got nominated in, like, the 90s for an Oscar for, like, best short film. Yeah, he's on that list. And, yeah, like, I, I haven't seen it. I was looking it up earlier. It's on YouTube in, like, four different parts.

Toby McGuire's in it, Elliot Gould's in it. I'm going to watch it later. I didn't get the chance to watch it before we recorded, but, yeah, I just keep forgetting that, like, he's one of those ones, like, Capaldi or, like, Walton Goggins, who has, like, either an Oscar or at least a nomination for, like, a short film kind of award. Did you either one of you realized that he was in full. 47 episodes of This Is Us

because I did not know that until just now as I'm looking at as IMDV. Whose grandfather was he? I don't know. Whose publisher was he? He did do that show that I didn't watch more than one episode of with Catherine Hahn called I Love Dick

where he played Catherine I watched one episode of that show too. I watched the one preview episode when I got it in my email. That's what Amazon would preview their pilots. That's right. I forgot about that. Um, one, one episode, like, no shade.

I love Catherine Hahn, no shade to that, but I hear it's good. Yeah, I heard some people liked it. I was like, fun title. Probably not for me, but, like, he's one of those actors who, like, just shows up on TV shows, probably more often than anything else now when you see him in things. Um, I'm looking at his filmography now. Three episodes of damages seems like exactly right. Like, yes. A judge on the good wife?

Yes. 100%. Like, that absolutely. feels. Very much in that pocket. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's not a bad pocket to be in. It's, you know, regularly employed and get to go. Wait, have either one of you ever seen this in a theater, like on a big screen? No. No. So this is, my partner won't listen to this, so it's fine. But I, their birthday, I think, it might have been their first birthday after we started dating. This theater in Brynmar, Pennsylvania, was playing after hours on 35 millimeter. And I wanted to go see it.

so fucking bad because it was already, you know, my favorite movie, like, it's been my favorite movie for like 10, 15 years. And they had never seen it before. And I knew that they would not want to go do that for their birthday. Hey, do you want to go to the middle of Pennsylvania? I'm not going to murder you. Do you want to go to the middle of Pennsylvania to see this movie on 35 millimeter? It's my favorite movie of all time, but for your birthday, do you want to go? Does it sweeten the deal if I tell you that Roger Ebert thought about leaving? the theater in the middle of watching it because it was so stressful. Maybe that helps. And so we didn't do it. I did, I did casually bring up at one point that my favorite, like a

week ahead of time, that my favorite movie was playing on 35 millimeter at, you know, the movie theater at Brimbar just to kind of see. With like, I kind of like buried it with like, I know you wouldn't want to do this, but. And they didn't take the bait. We didn't do it. But that was my, that was my opportunity. Because I live in like rural Delaware. So, like, there's not, like, Brim, that theater and Brimard is, like, an hour away from me. Like, Philly and Baltimore are, like, an hour, hour and a half away from me. So there's not a lot of, like, rep screenings for things that, like, I have options to go to, especially not, like, in the pandemic. I, I, like, don't really go out.

But it's, that was the closest I've been. And we did see, we did go see mean streets on 35 millimeter, like, two weeks before that, which that was great. But that's the closest I've been. I hope that one day I will get the chance to. One of these times, Mitchell, we're going to converge on New York City. in between variant surges, and we will see it on the big screen. My local theater did a Scorsese revival, but only about, like, half of them were on film, and I saw both Cape Fear and Alice Doesn't Live Here anymore.

The Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore print was surprisingly in good shape, considering the age of that movie. and like no one's like talking about or taking care of that movie to the degree that it deserves. The Cape Fear one, that was intense because watching that movie in 35, that is a pervy-ass movie. That is like, that movie is like there's nothing, I mean, there is like some stuff in it, but like you're just watching it and it feels in that way that some Hitchcock movies, when you watch them, you're like, I am watching something obscene. Yeah. I am watching something, I am watching a soulfully dirty movie.

Yeah. Or a movie that's dirty to its soul. The scene in the, um, and like the high school theater with Julia, the thumb sucking, which you know, like that feels like, every time I watch that, it feels like something that I'm not supposed to be watching. I'm like, I was also down to just like those like red flashes, seeing that in a theater and on film. It just made me feel gross in such a good way. I remember that movie came out when I was like a tweenager.

I was like 11-12, right? And that was one of those movies that people talked about about like there's this movie and she goes and then she sucks his thumb and it's like, oh, it's like all nasty and whatever. And I remember watching it on television. So it's edited for television. So you see certain things like they edit out the part where he bites off Ileana Douglas's cheek, but you see like up to. the moment when it happens and like that kind of thing yeah but like the thumb-sucking scene is like not like there's nothing that like violates uh you know standards and practices so that scene plays in full and it's just like oh i'm so like unsettled and i'm like 13 watching this and i'm just like

just families watching it on tbs at one in the afternoon and then juliet louis is nominated for an oscar and shows up in cornrose to the ceremony so like genuinely with brad pitt yes i want yeah or yeah that was like yes that maybe it was a little bit before because i was like right it was like a year it was two years before california came out yeah so probably our oscars were probably around the same time it was filming so rip to the what was the name of the tumbler joe for photos of celebrities oh lena dunham would talk about it all the time um um something loves um forgotten loves or something like famous people that you forgot or never knew dated but photos of them together.

She did go to that Oscars with Brad Pitt. Yep, there's Oscar. There's red carpet photos of the two of them. Yeah. Wow. Good look for everybody. It's a lot of look on her because it's also this like, this like beautiful sort of like elegant white gown with this like long, uh, beaded necklace that she's wearing.

It's a lot of look. An opera glass. That was like pretty soon after she got emancipated too, right? So she was just like, I'm, she's free doing whatever she wants to do. She's also somebody who played in the vague range of 13 to 18 for like a decade. where like she was in Christmas vacation She's in Cape Fear She seems like she's playing younger in Cape Fear

than she was in Christmas vacation Even though Cape Fear comes out later One million percent What's it called? Natural Born Killers comes out But yet she's still playing Sort of like teen roles and other things It's just like it was

Her age was indeterminate for a good 10 years there Wouldn't trade that Oscar nomination for anything Maybe I would trade it for her being nominated For Natural Born Killers Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a, yeah, it's a, yeah, it's a fantastic nomination. That performance would not get nominated today. No, I don't think it would.

I want to talk about... I mean, maybe if it's still a Scorsese movie, I don't know. Thoughts on Howard Shore's score for this movie, which could not be more mid-1980s, with its, like, labyrinthy chimes. Like, I kept thinking of, like, paperhouse and stuff like that, like, those sort of quasi-fantasy movies of the mid-80s. It was, like, you walked through a room full of, like, wind chimes and pots and pans that are hanging from the ceiling or whatever. It was great. Griffin,

Griffin, Dunn described it as, like, the score being, his approach to the score being sound effects with a melody to it. Yeah. I feel like that's like a really wonderful way of capturing it.

Because it doesn't feel like, it feels in a way like the movie where it like feels improvisational. And like the beauty of it feeling on improvisational is like, obviously so much time and attention went to it to make it feel improvisational. Because if it was just like him riffing, it would sound like garbage. But like it's, yeah,

it feels very like spontaneous and of the moment. and like really the scenes of him just like running through the streets and like panic mode with the score going it like really just feels that vibe so effectively and yet like there's also Mozart song cues in this there's Bach there's like I said the Peggy Lee song at the end there's that Terry Gar puts on the last train to Clarksville which made me think of that moment in women talking where all of a sudden the van comes driving through and it's playing the Monkeys' Day Dream Believer, which I'm still mad that they put that in the trailer, because that was such a- Oh, did they?

I don't watch trailers. That, yeah, that, like, blew my mind. It was a surprise to me. Like, I guess I shouldn't have been so surprised that it was in modern times in that, but, like, I thought that's a little bit of a surprise in that movie that, like, the trailer just sort of- Listen, Sarah Polly has good taste in music. She does. Oh, I watched, um...

Take This Waltz, man. I watched the end of Take This Waltz recently, and it's like, I got to see that whole movie again that sometimes soon. such a fucking good movie. Tremendous. How do we get the reappraisal for that going? Thank you. Exactly.

Thank you. Maybe Mitchell, come back on. We'll talk about Take This Walls. We'll do. Fuck, yeah. I will talk about how much I cry every time I watch Take This Wall. Yes. Perfect movie.

The crass person I would want to talk about with this movie is Michael Wallhouse. Michael Bellhouse. Yes. I mean. Well, this is his, I believe, his first, at least big English language movie. Yeah, he did like Baby It's You with Dodgers. and Robinson, like, before this, but this was definitely, like, his first, like, big one, yeah. Because he was doing Fast Binder movies, and, shockingly, only had got nominated for Oscar three times.

He's one of those cinematographers that is not nominated as many times as he should be, yeah. As should be, or you would even think of. And, like, he had a partnership with Scorsese for a number of movies, and this is the first one of them, too. Yeah. There's one of the reviews that I was looking at described the camera work in this movie, as often seeming like a dog that is straining against his leech. Maybe that was Ebert, where it's just like all of a sudden it like zips around and like is like trying to like see everything in the scene at once.

And the taxi scene makes me think of that too, the way that the absolutely like nerve jangling way they film that taxi just sort of like zipping across like going from lane to lane. Like no wonder that $20 bill never to be seen again. Yeah, and they like, I mean, they did like these crazy techniques with like the, the shot where he first shows up to the apartment and Linda Fiorentito drops the keys down. They like rigged something to the keys to like film it going down and it like almost like killed Griffin Dunn and he didn't even realize it. So then they had to do it again. Oh wow.

But they were like, we can't do that the same way again. And Griffin Donovan was like, no, that was great. Let's do it again. And everybody else was like, you will die if we try to do it again. Like it broke the camera. And like I just love, I love too like the. the lighting and like the way that like spotlights and flashlights are like used throughout the movie like you're in like one of the apartments he's like hiding out in the apartment and like you see the light like blaring in through from like one of the flashlights of like the mob and you just feel that panic setting in like the light like it can hit you any second and like the people will see you any second like yeah yeah everything that review really captured it well just like it feels like constantly emotion in such an exciting way like a michael ballhouse is image, like, has a very distinct, you know, temperature and texture of light in a way that, like, you know, probably almost a precursor to deacons in a way of just, like, it could be the simplest image, but it's so distinctly his, too.

It's surprising the three movies he was nominated for, because, like, you would tell somebody he's nominated for three, and I don't know if any of these three are the first. Was he nominated for Gangs of New York? Yes. Gangs of New York, his only Scorsese nomination. Yeah, it's not, it's not Ait of Innocence or Last Temptation of Christ, it's Gangs of New York, which, whatever. Fabulous Baker Boys and Broadcast News. Broadcast News, that's a cool-ass nomination. That's a really cool, yeah, it's not the kind of movie that you would expect to get a cinematography nomination, but it very much deserves it. yeah yeah i love and score says he credits a lot of like the success of the movie with michael ballhouse because a lot of the him doing the movie was him wanting to after like the last temptation of christ it all like wanting to do something smaller like dirty or quicker and like test himself to see if he

could make a movie like this again on like a smaller budget a smaller schedule like they shot for like 40 days compared to like 150 for raging bull and when like they were talking to the the producers in the studio about it and they were like like, do you think that you can get all of this done in 40 days with this amount of time? Scorsese was like, I mean, ask Michael, like, he has, like, my shot list, like, every shot that I want to get done. And they did, like, more, like, setups and shots per night than Scorsese ever done on any other movie. They did, like, 16, like, setups a day. Like, it was, like, crazy, like, them just trying to push to make it get done.

So, yeah, I think Ballhouse definitely deserves a huge shout out for making this movie what it is. You mentioned that dropping the key scene, and but it happens twice in the movie. and both of the times Griffin Dunn backs away from it and allows it to hit the ground. And I kept thinking it was going to like fall down a sewer grate or something like that because it was like, just catch the goddamn keys, man. Just like...

Yeah. I think Scoreses he described it as like the keys representing this thing of like him sort of accepting going into this underworld. And it's like the keys are coming down in him so fast. Like he's afraid and he doesn't want to do it. So he backs away and then he picks him up. And that's like him like accepting the entrance into, you know, this hell that he's about to go into.

Well, and there's such a huge. huge key motif anyway, right, where he gives John Hurd his keys, John Hurd gives him his keys. He kept seeing the little dangly skull thing off of John Hurd's keychain. Yeah, totally. Keys and doors, I feel like, that feels

pretty intentional. At some point, okay, here's my, I imagine at some point somebody somewhere, like I feel like Alamo Draft House needs to have small replica plaster of Paris baggling cream cheese paper.

weights because I would buy several of them. I was thinking, like, as we were getting into, like, this episode, I was thinking, like, if anybody who knows me well wants to get me, like, the perfect, like, birthday gift, it would be, like, a plaster of pairs, like, bagel and crue cheese paperweight. They say it so many times, and it's one of those things where... As soon as they said it enough times, I was like, oh, this is, like, a thing. Like, this is one of those, like, shibolus or whatever that, like, people say to each other to, to, like, know that you're in on the, the after-evers thing.

And I love the time where he, like, almost gets it, too. when Terry Garg goes to give him one as he's leaving her place and he fucking swapsed out of her hand. Because now it represents this horrible ordeal that he's going through. Yeah. Oh, wait, I'm going into

my notes and I'm trying to read this thing, but I don't have enough light. Why don't I write here? My handwriting is so bad. I'm so, oh, my God. I have absolutely no idea what I wrote down here, but I feel like it was something I wanted to write. God damn it. Nope. Not going to get it. That's a bummer. Now I, this feels very, I don't know, Kafka's having fun with me now too, I guess. Oh, yeah. Right. When he's telling the story to the gay guy who thinks he's picking him up on the street, right? He's like that great scene where like they sort of, he's telling the story and they keep like cutting, like fade cutting to, too, because the story's so long it has to go. But he's telling the part about where he tried to get on the subway, but the fairs went up and he goes.

goes, did you know the fares went up? And the guy just goes like, yes. Like, it's just like everybody knows that the fairs went up. The seed, too, with him trying to get on with the fairs going up is one of my favorite things because he's like, he's asking the guy. That's the funniest line in the movie is amazing. Yeah, he's like, what, like, what's going to, just let me go through. Like, I have almost enough just let me go through.

Like, who's going to know? And the guy says, I don't know. Maybe I'll get drunk at a party one day and tell somebody. And tell somebody. And he says it with such a straight, like, face on. He believes it. He really believes that might happen one day. It's great. Or he's just fucking with him.

Like, that's the other thing. Every single interaction that Griffin Dunn has in this movie is plausibly, like, on the level, or plausibly people are fucking with him. And either one would make equal amount of sense, which I love. What a fun movie. I'm so glad we did this. Genuinely, I love when a plan comes together like this. This is really great. Do we want to talk about the can that it played? We're also talking about an era of a band where...

Yeah, this is an interesting. Yeah, it's an interesting one because it played the year after it came out. And I feel like that is always really fascinating. I think their technical rule is you can play in the country of origin, but nowhere else. Because, like, that still happens regularly for Almodovar films. But you used to see it way more in, you know, previous decades. Yeah, almost a full year after, like, because it came out in September. Yeah, it's like, yeah, nine months later or whatever.

Yeah, it's amazing. So this can, in competition, you also have Jim Jarmish's down by law. You have a Bruce Beresford film, which, like, people, because of driving Miss Daisy, basically think that Bruce Beresford is all schlock. And even if you still think it's all schlock, he actually played Cannes competition, I think, multiple times. Fool for Love by Robert Altman. There's a Nogisoshima film. Mona Lisa by Neil Jordan Love that movie

Runaway Train Which I always feel like is a strange I should watch that movie Because it sounds Anytime that I see those Oscar nominations And I see Runaway Train Eric Roberts nomination I think of money train

With Wesley Snice and Woody Harrelson And I was like It's got to be that kind of movie right It's a crazy movie It's intense that I will not abide by the acting nominations for it. I think the acting and it's kind of atrocious, but it's a really fascinating kind of movie

that it picked up, like, the nominations that it did. Yeah, I'll catch up to it. Tarkovsky's The Sacrifice is there, but the Palm winner is Roland Joffey's The Mission. Yeah. Have either of you seen the... I have multiple... Actually, so I saw it when I was in school.

In high school, I want to say they showed it to us. class for something. Or maybe when I was in college. It was a rolling card. It's a rolling cart movie, but I also was on Dan Mecca and Conroe O'Donnell's podcast, The B-Side talking about Oscar

Oscar movies that were sort of B-side Oscar movies and that was one of them. So we watched the mission again. It's an interesting movie. It's sort of gotten a reputation for being this sort of like fusty-musty, like... I have certainly added to it. I think it's

kind of, I think it's a more interesting movie, then maybe its reputation with a tremendous score, too, is the other thing. There's some beautiful images to it. However, I think Roland Jaffe is in possession of Tarkovsky's. Sure.

I haven't a whole ass house on fire for that movie. Good for Tarkovsky. Very good. I haven't seen the mission, but have you guys the Oshima movie, Maximona Moore? Have you guys seen that movie? No. Not that one. but every Oshima movie I have seen, I am like, fuck, yes.

Yeah, the Maximo Moore is a movie where straight up Charlotte Rampling falls in love with and has a sexual relationship with a monkey. And it's an actual monkey and the movie just plays out, plays that extremely straight. It is. I watched it on movie on like a whim like two or three years ago because I like Oshiva and like I saw the plot. I was like, all right. And it's honestly pretty good.

And it's, yeah, well worth watching. It's like 90 minutes long. It is worth watching for the premise alone. It's fascinating. Amazing. Joe, this will make you happy, as happy as it makes me. One of our beloved treasures played out of competition at that can. The Chipmunk Adventure.

Hey! The Boys and Girls of Rock and Roll, we're doing it on the Quassette. I love it. Listen, give us a sequel where it's about the boys and the girls of rock and roll tricking Mrs. Miller through a various you know talk boy type of situation. That's true.

Where they go to the Cannes Film Festival. God, I love that movie. I got to watch it again. Also, Jane Campion had like multiple movies at this can in certain regard and then won the short film palm. Like Jane Campion was like Ballin at that

at that can. Good for her. Busy woman. What a time. Sometimes I feel like I don't always feel like, oh, I would have been, like, so good during the, like, golden age of cinema or whatever, like, wish I had been, like, around during, like, the 70s, whatever. I do sometimes wish that I was, like, more aware of film in the 80s, though, because it's, like, there's a lot of picking through a lot of mainstream direct and whatever,

or, like, or detritus to get to some really interesting early stage stuff for some people's careers. And, like, I think that's... I mean, this is really true of even the Oscars, too, because we're talking about the Out of Africa year, and I will never watch that movie again. I don't need not that bad. Speaking of Sidney Pollock, who was president of that can jury in 86. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And a good director who made a movie that I do not care for

that you have. I've still never seen out of Africa. Yeah. I mean, yeah, Chris is right. It's not a good movie, but it is also the snooze of snooze. This is the thing. This is, but I will say the English patient also has that reputation. And when I finally watch the English patient, I love the English patient. I trust you guys that. not the same but yeah i agree like when i was like growing up like a teenager discovering my love

of like film or whatever like i very much fell into that like stereotype of like the 70s especially for like american cinema the 70s or like where it was at the 80s was like garbage like it's just like fluff whatever and i i you know stuck with that for a really long time and within the last like 10 years i've kind of realized that like the mid 80s especially is really like my pocket of like probably my favorite era of American cinema, but it's like once you get past, like the stuff that was really up at the Oscars and whatever.

Yeah, it's just there's so much good stuff down there. Once again, you talk about that very first independent spirit awards and like Scorsese was already a thing. But like you talk like, it's that cross section of Scorsese and the Coens where Scorsese is making his like sort of like career dip independent

movie and then the Coens are just ascending with Blood Simple that same year. And like what an exciting time to be alive, like, genuinely. Well, the other fourth movie that kind of dominated, because we also mentioned Trip to the Bountiful, is Joyce Chopra's Smooth Talk. Yes, which is a masterpieces. Fucking grueless.

I've never even, I had never heard of it before I looked this up. I have to admit. Joe, you will love that movie. Like, don't even read anything about it. Like, it's a movie that, like, is on its own rhythm, but, like, you will love that movie. Yeah. I hadn't heard anything about it, and I watched it.

um the 2020 new york film festival so it was like they were it was like virtual and like i was completely alone because it was like before vaccines so like i was not leaving my house at all yeah like i wasn't even seeing the restoration and yeah i wasn't even seeing my partner or anything so i was basically just like consuming everything that i could like around that period of time so like i was like oh lauren they did a restoration at new york film festival of this movie that i've literally never heard of just watched it yeah on a whim and it completely blew my mind and yeah The Restoration is gorgeous. It is a movie that will knock your socks off.

It's just insane that it's a movie that probably many people for 30 years thought I've never heard of that movie before. Yeah. Because it's just like great. Yeah, it's undeniable. The poster that I'm looking at, which is on the Wikipedia page, has that, like, young adult novel from the 1980s look to it, like a not Judy Bloom, but like something that, like a 15 year old would like get at the book fair or whatever and like it's a little it's a little racy and yeah um it's very exciting treat williams not quite sweet valley high but like not quite a little yeah yeah treat williams in this also i know this is like several years after the ritz

but i'm still like buzzing off of seeing the ritz for the first time last year which i need to treat williams in that movie is like treated as such a like object at times but like in a really, really interesting way. Speaking of F. Murray Abraham, fantastic F. Murray Abraham performance in the movie. I'm going to bring that movie up as often as possible. Yeah, I got to see that. Oh, Mitchell, I think you would really like it. I'm going to watch it. I can't

wait to watch the Ritz. Thank you for reminding me about it. All right, anything else we want to talk about before you move into the IMDB game? I just quickly wanted to mention with Joseph Minion's script. The thing that I always find interesting is that so when he wrote it for his thesis for

Columbia, the first his script was basically started the first like 30 minutes of it of the film were based on this NPR playhouse monologue by Joe Frank which was called Lies and the script is almost like identical to the monologue like he basically ripped it off and he got an A on his thing but when the movie came out Joe Frank who did the monologue sued the studio and won and like got like what apparently is a pretty handsome settlement so I find that very interesting. I love, I mean, the script's amazing. Joseph Minion has a fascinating career. He

wrote, like, four movies, and they're all fucking bonkers. He also wrote Vampire's Kiss and Nicholas Cage movie. And this really, really weird movie called Motorama from like the early 90s, which Dan Mecca, who you mentioned before, recommended for me to watch. And it is basically like, it's almost after hours if it was, if the main character was a 10-year-old kid who everybody else treated as if he was a full grown adult and like you it's it's a fucking bizarre movie um but yeah he has a really weird career and i just love that like watching the the spirit awards um ceremony earlier today and like people are just praising and praising praising praising this script and like in the back of my head being like that was kind of plagiarized

that's amazing all right uh chris why don't you explain to the listeners what the i mdb game is and we can Hey, listeners, every week we end our episodes with the IMDB game where we challenge each other with an actor or actors to try to guess the top four titles that IMDB says they are most known for. If any of those titles are television, voice-only performances, or non-acting credits, we'll mention that up front. After two wrong guesses, we get the remaining titles, release years as a clue. If that's not enough, it just becomes a free-for-all of hints. Indeed, that is the IMDB game. All right, Mitchell, as our guest, it will be your choice whether you want to go first. Give first, rather, or guess first?

And in what direction you want this little round robin to go in? I'll guess first. All right. And I'll say, let's have you give to me, and I'll give to Chris. All right. Sounds good. Okay, so I mentioned before that Griffin Dunn directed Practical Magic, of course. He also directed a movie that I don't remember whether I've seen or not,

a rom-com from the mid-90s called Addicted to Love. Have either one of you seen Addicted to Love? I have not seen it. Meg Ryan. I know I possibly seen it but remember nothing. Meg Ryan, Matthew Broderick, Kelly Preston. I'm not sure exactly what the premise is. I know that Matthew Broderick...

I think their partners are having an affair with each other. That's what it is. And they maybe bust them or make them jealous of something. They start like spying on that. And they, like, they, like, fall for each other. Matthew Broderick is sporting a Bradley Cooper-style, like, perma three-day scruff going on in that movie that is, I found surprisingly appealing. But anyway, one of the supporting players in that playing the character of Manna is Maureen Stapleton. So, Mitchell hit me with Maureen Stapleton's known for.

We love Maureen. Yeah, that's going to be a struggle for me. um i i guess reds yes reds okay um i might tap out after reds okay um is she's not in interiors she is in interiors you've got two of them see already doing better than you thought she's incredible in i was yeah i was pretty sure but i wasn't because i know stacked cast in interiors and i just wanted to make we just did best picture follow-ups for a screen dress, and so I watched interiors in preparation for that, and she is quite good in that movie. Yeah, that's a stacked performances in that movie.

Yeah. I really don't know any direction to go after. All right, I can start getting you. One movie we also discussed that was a Gulton Globe nominee. We discussed today? Yes. Yes. From the same year as After Hours, an Oscar winner.

An Oscar winner. Chris didn't like it. I did. A comedy with a pretty I said it had a pretty stacked cast. She plays the wife of... If I tell you the person, you're going to get it.

Perhaps a sexual comedy. I don't... You're the only person I know who would describe this movie as a sex comedy, Chris, but that's... It's basically. a sex comedy. It's not, it's a... It is a sci-fi sex comedy. It is a sci-fi sex comedy. Sort of. Back to the future? No.

No. Um, her husband is Wilford Brimley. Oh, cocoon. Yeah, cocoon. Okay. The final remaining one is from 1970. It is a... Best picture nominee. Oh, God, it is a best picture. And it won supporting actress, right? Best picture nominee. And it won supporting actress, right? Am I right about that, Chris? I think so, yeah. for like someone wild like Helen Hayes I think it is

Helen Hayes won the Oscar for this the cast is one of those like 12 famous people embarrassing Helen Hayes Oscars for this movie it's like it's from this era of like disaster movies is it airport it is airport in fact okay it's airport the poster for airport is literally just like like the Brady Bunch cast where it's just like Bert Lancaster Dean Martin Gene Seberg Jacqueline Beset, George Kennedy, Helen Hayes. I have to double check if Helen Hayes has another Oscar, because if it's only for Airport, that sucks.

I think it is for only Oscar. Double check it. No, she won Best Leading Actress in 1931 for the Sin of Madeline Claday. All right. All right. You got it. It's such a weird era. I did, I, okay.

You did better. Not as embarrassing as I thought. Yeah, you did better than expected. All right, so you will now give to Chris. Okay, so I will say I, I, I will say, I love the show, and I love the IMDB game. And so I have imagined who I would, you know, play for this before. And so this is a lot of pressure for me because it's like, you know, oh, like, if this is the only chance I get, I want to, you know, pick a good one.

And I don't, no, no, no, we want you to come back. We want you to come back. That's good to know. Because I was narrowed it, I narrowed it down to two, and I was, like, really struggling with, like, which one of the two I was going to pick. But because this person has been very much, like, in headlines and conversation for. from the Golden Globes and a new Thelma and Louise musical that she has been talking about now doing, I will say Amanda Seifred. Okay, Amanda Seifred. She's so interesting because do I think her, I do think her Oscar nomination is their Mank.

It is not. Okay, never mind. Mamma Mia. It is not. Whoa. Not Mamma Mia. Not Mama Mia. Wow.

Wow. This is why you wanted me to do a man of Cyprus. I thought it was fascinating when I saw which before. This is a wild, this is a wild known for. Wow. Okay, what are my years? All right. So the years are 2012, 2010, 2004, and another 2010.

One of the 2010s is Dear John. Yes. We were just talking about this in our text thread, Mitchell. Like literally earlier. Well, because what's the, what's the, tidbit about it, Chris. Because everybody knows that Lost in Space is the movie that finally

dethroned Titanic from the top of the box office. I was Joe and Katie. Yes, Dear John is the movie that dethroned Avatar. Okay, so another 2010, a 2012, and what was my other year? 2004. 2004.

Oh, 2004, that's interesting. Because that's pre-Mama Mia, which is 08 or oh 9. Oh, 8. I know it's sitting right there. I just don't have it. It'll be obvious when you figure out what it is. It'll be really obvious. Okay. 2012 is Le Miz. Yeah.

Sure is. Which I always forget she's in. She's the only good performance in the movie. But she's the one you forget, though, is the other thing. She's like she really is. 2004, too early to be Jennifer's Bond. Okay, so what's going on in 2004? That's like...

John Kerry was being swift-boated. Let's see. The Yankees blew the division series to the Red Sox. Alias was in its tumultuous fourth season. Terry Shiva. You can only... remember Terry Shivo because it's the same year as Million Dollar Baby. We don't talk enough about

how the Terry Shivo of it all led to the Million Dollar Baby narrative. Anyway, Baby Gary's don't. Please don't. Please don't. You will not be happy that I'd be in that trick. It is a weird coincidence, though. 2015, maybe 2015

will be easier for me to get. No, it's another, it's 2004, and then another 2010. Oh, another 2010. Okay. So, it's the same year as Dear John, it would be before she's doing, or after Mamma Mia. It's pitched to the same audience as Dear John. It's not Chloe.

Chloe was 09. Yeah, same audience as Dear John. It's another, like, romantic kind of thing. A movie that I completely forgot existed until I saw her. Yeah, me too. Is it one of the ensemble romantic things? Okay, so it's not a... She's very much the lead in it.

She is the face on the poster. She is the title character. Yes. I imagine, right? How many titles characters? No, she's actually not. She's actually not. Oh, that's interesting.

There's a woman's name in the title. Oh, shit. What is this? That's going to drive me crazy. Clearly, Joe and I have not seen this movie. I don't think this hint will help you, but the director of this movie directed a movie that we did for this podcast in its early days. Oh, okay. So that's like Mike.

Newell. That is... How early did we do this movie? Susanna Beer. This was our 21st episode. Okay. I don't know if that's going to help me. Woman's name Amanda Seifred. It's one of those movies where a young woman

goes to a... goes on vacation somewhere and, like, learns about herself and her romantic, you know. I want to be like, she's not aquamarine and aqua marine. She's not a aqua marine. She could have done that. Oh, no, no, no, no. This is letters to Juliet.

It sure is. Letters to Juliet. Letters to Juliet. We all remember. Directed by Gary Winick, who directed. Taddle. Rest in peace, Gary Winnick. Yes, the late Gary Minnick.

Okay. So, 2000. Four, pre-Mamamia. She's supporting in it. Yeah. I feel like she's someone's daughter in that era. Chris, you're maybe not getting this because Drag Race has moved to MTV now.

Oh, it's Mean Girls. There you go. I'm sorry, Gary. I know you're all yelling at me about that. There you go. I knew you'd get it if I gave you that particular end. Crazy Top Four.

Crazy Top Four. Who's the lead in Mamma Mia and has an awesome. Oscar nomination. And in the other Mamma Mia. It makes me wonder where she's billed in the Mamma Mia's

because if she's billed much lower than you would expect, it would explain why it this is there. Yes. Yeah. And then Netflix movies have a hard time of showing up even if they get Oscar nominations.

All right, Joe, for you, someone that we shockingly have never done on the IMDB game. Griffin Dunn lost his Golden Globe nomination for After Hours to this actor, I'm talking about none other than Jack Nichols. Whoa.

Okay. Jack is tough because he's got so many big options. A lot of options and he's the lead in almost every movie that he's And you can't even necessarily go to Oscars because he's got three of them and a lot of them are older. Although... And a lot of nominations

on top of that. And a lot of nominations on top of that. Oh, man. Okay. I will... I'm going to guess, though, that One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest is one of them. One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, correct. Okay. I'm also going to guess as good as it gets. As good as it gets, correct. I would not have guessed as good as it gets, to be honest. I feel like that movie was on TV a lot, and I think that those kinds of, like, TNT movies, like, really, really show up well on the IMDB game. That's my theory.

Okay. Um... Jack Jack Nicholson No wrong answers yet Or no wrong guesses Kathy Griffin's joke in her stand-up About the way that Madonna pronounced When Madonna presented the Golden Globe

To Jack Nicholson for as good as it gets And she just opened the envelope And she just goes, the winner is Jack So then, okay, so then remember the Golden Glow? She announced Best Actor and it was Jack Nicholson for as good as it gets And she reads it and she goes And the winner for Best Actor is

Jack What's wrong with her? When does somebody get to stop her? I'll find that clip. I'll throw it in there. Okay, so other Jack Nicholson, I'm trying to think of what were his big, like, popular, populist, you know, kind of movies that he was maybe nom. Oh, Chinatown.

Chinatown. All right. Are you going to get a perfect score on China, this is pressure pressure pressure pressure um all right so probably not pritsy's honor i think terms of endearment how high would he be billed in terms of he might be third build or maybe he's the and in terms of endearment um i'm not helping you out on that but i do think he's the and of that he would make sense we don't talk enough about how two of jack Nicholson's three Oscars are for James L. Brooks movies.

I know. I know. It's crazy. He wouldn't be... God, now all I can think of is Wolf, which is like, that's not helping me. I wish. It's really not helping me. I mean, like, we could do an episode on Wolf, but isn't it wild that Wolf is not from the era of Mike Nichols doing drugs?

Right. Right. Wolf's a good movie. I've literally been talking about... I've never seen it. It's on, it's eternally on my like, I want to watch all the unwatched Mike Nicholses. And that's a new dog movie. I'm going to watch, now that I finish the book, I'm going to watch all of them.

It's, um, okay. Connor watched, uh, Wolf recently for, they're doing a Michelle Pfeiffer episode of the B side. And I've literally, we have like a DM with the three of us. And like I, I, we've been talking about Wolf nonstop. I think I saw you guys tweeting about it the other day. Yeah. It's such a good movie. There are so many avenues of what is fascinating in that movie.

I can't quite fall on the side of it being. I mean, maybe, I don't know. It's fascinating enough that I could probably have watched it most recently and been like, this is bad. But because it's so interesting in my mind, I'm like, well, maybe it is really, really good. Right. All right. It's crazy to exist.

It is crazy to exist. My guess is going to be the departed. Holy shit. Did I get it? Yeah. You got a purpose. Fuck you. I hate you.

How did you get that? I was trying to think. I knew it was going to be something more recent. And I was like, what were, I was, like, counting backwards from his, like, last movies. And that was in the department. Yeah. I do think the bucket list used to be on his known for it. I feel like I remember the bucket list being on there at some point.

The bucket list made an insane amount of money as part of it. Criminal amount of money, someone's the former this had Oscar buzz entry, the bucket list. All right. Good fun IMDB game all around. Mitchell Boprey, thank you so, so, so much for being on this episode. I knew this was the movie that we wanted to have you on for, so I'm glad we could make this work. We will definitely have you on again to do Take This Walls.

We're not going to let anybody else. We've got that one earmarked for you. Very excited. Come back soon. Listeners, that is our episode. If you would like more, This Had Oscar Buzz, you can check out the Tumblr at this had oscarbuzz.com. You should also follow our Twitter account at Had underscore Oscar Buzz.

and our Instagram at This Had Oscar Buzz. Mitchell, where can the listeners see and read and hear more from you? Yeah, you can check out. I mean, first of all, thank you so much for having me. This was a very fun time talking about my favorite movie on a podcast that I love very much. So this was a blast. Can't wait to come back for Take This Waltz. That is going to be a different toned episode.

Yes. But, yeah, people can find you on Twitter at It Is Mitchell or on Letterbox. letterbox letterbox.com slash Mitchell. Got in there early and got my name as my using name. Yeah. I mean, podcast, letterbox stuff, like all the good stuff over there. Other places, just, yeah, follow me on Twitter, and I will post things that I'm doing.

You are a good Twitter follow. I will vouch for you there. People say that sometimes, and it's very confusing to be. I feel like I would not do anything on there. Well, I feel like... Connor said the same thing. You sort of came to my attention because Raksana, past guest Raxana Hadati,

recommended you for trivia, um, when we did the trivia event. And I think that's when around the time you sort of like, you know, shifted into into my view on Twitter. But yeah, you're like, you're a really fun Twitter follow. So thank you very much. Chris, where can the listeners find you and your stuff? You can also find me on Twitter and letterbox at Chris v. File. That's F. E.I.L. I am on Twitter and letterbox at Joe Reed. Reed spelled R.E.I.D. We would like to thank Kyle Cummings for his fantastic artwork and Dave Gonzalez and Gavin Mievious for their technical guidance. Please remember to rate, like, and review us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Google Play, Stitcher, wherever else you get podcasts. A five-star review in particular really helps us out with Apple Podcasts

visibility. So catch a ride home in that Mr. Softie truck and then write something nice about us, won't you? That's all for this week, but we hope you'll be back next week for more buzz. Oh!