This Had Oscar Buzz - 232 – Waitress

Episode Date: February 27, 2023

We decided to bring you a slice of joy this week with 2007′s Waitress. Starring Keri Russell as a small town waitress and inventive pie master stuck in a harmful marriage, the heartwarming film would eventually be adapted to the megabit musical with songs from Sara Bareilles. Its beginnings, however, were marked by sadness: in … Continue reading "232 – Waitress"

Uh-oh, wrong house. No, the right house. No, I didn't get that! We want to talk to Marilyn Hacks and trash. I'm from Canada water. seems to be a problem. I seem to be pregnant. Congratulations. Thanks, but I'm not so happy about it like everybody else might be. I'm having

the baby, and that's that. Un-congratulation. Un-thank-you. The biggest mystery about Jenna Hunterson is how a girl this great. You should open your own pie shop. Yeah. Somewhere where they could really use a little pie shop, like

Europe or New Jersey. Ended up with a life like this. Hello and welcome to the This Head Oscar Buzz podcast. The only podcast that will outrun you to safety if it's the last thing we do. Every week on this had Oscar Buzz. We'll be talking about a different movie that once upon a time had Lofty Academy Award aspirations, but for some reason or another, it all went wrong. The Oscar hopes died, and we are here to perform the autopsy. I'm your host, Joe Reed. I'm here, as

always, with my marshmallow mermaid pie, Chris File. Hello, Chris. I've been called all three of those things separately, but never together. Welcome. We've taken a week off. It's been a minute since we've recorded. We took multiple weeks off because you were on vacation. I'm about to be on vacation. So we had a massive cram session a few weeks ago. We're having another one this weekend. Another one this weekend, yes.

And then we'll be back to normal. Such as it is. Such as normal is on this podcast. But yes, we are here this week, just the two of us. We are going to talk about the 2007 movie Waitress, a film that I saw twice in theaters back in 2007 actually I saw it when it came to Buffalo this was just before I moved to New York City

I saw it when I came to Buffalo and then I saw it when I took in a trip to Portland to visit cousins out in Portland and we went and saw this at one of their movie theaters that served food and beers which was like the first time I had ever been to such a movie theater because it was Portland and it was very sort of like

cutting edge in terms of you know arts artsy-fartsy experience so that was fun I was mesmerized by that whole concept of just like they'll just bring you a beer in your seat this is crazy and now that's sort of the

and that beer is $17 you know probably not that much back then but like probably would be now but yes and so like I was definitely super into waitress back then and it was an interesting experience

watching it again Again, now, what is this, 16 years later? God, I mean, the obvious comment to make about this, seeing this in a dine-in type of theater, is the food that you probably were wishing they were serving you was by. Yeah, they didn't have desserts. It was basically, you know, burgers and fries. I think we all got like a plate of, like, loaded fries or something like that.

And the beers. But, yes, this would have been a perfect movie. I remember when I saw the musical Waitress on Broadway, one of the gimmicks they had early on. I don't know how long into its run this lasted. But they were like, first of all, they, like, pumped, like, freshly baked pie scent throughout the lobby. So you walked in and it was just like, oh, my God, this smells delicious. I think they did this the whole run, though. And then you got little, like, jar pie.

You know what I mean? Like in a little tiny little, like, mini Mason jar kind of a thing. And they gave you, you got, hid your selection of, like, one of two, like, types of pies. I had it. I think I finally, in one of the moves, uh, let go of it. But I had my little pie jar. Oh, you did not keep the pie. Jesus.

No, I didn't, I didn't keep the pie. I'm not insane. Like, it probably had preservatives that would have kept the pie, but. No, I ate the goddamn pie in the room. Like, I enjoyed that goddamn pie. Um, yes. So, that was, um, a fun experience to be had you what is your experience with waitress did you see it in the theaters then did you see the musical did see it in theaters i know the music of the musical have not seen it live yeah um yeah i love this movie this movie still rocks um it's very cute it's very very cute i feel like there's a certain level of this movie that it wouldn't be as well received today especially in the way that it came

out. You know, this is a comedy that launched at Sundance, but I mean, I think this is a good example. This is like a top-tier version of that. We'll talk about the Sundance, because this is a really interesting Sundance. Yeah. It's also the Sundance

the year after Little Miss Sunshine, which also raised the expectations pretty significantly for Sundance that year. Right. And this was also bought by Searchlight as Little Miss Sunshine was. I don't, I mean, like, this, it, there's also the tragedy behind this movie, too.

Yeah, we'll talk about that for sure. That will definitely talk about that is, was such a bummer then and is still such a bummer now. I forget the timeline of it of if it happened before this movie was released into theaters. I believe it did. Oh, she, so Adrian Shelley was sadly murdered in November of 2006. It was after Sundance had made the choice to select her movie, but before she was notified of that. So she was at that moment sort of awaiting notification for whether Waitress would be accepted into Sundance. So the premiere of the movie at Sundance was a little over two months after she had died.

And so the purchase of the movie didn't happen until Sundance. So it was released the following. spring so adrian shelley was uh was gone by the time this movie premiered at sundance and um i guess we should probably just like get that out of the way maybe now just because we want to you know it's just so sad because she wrote and directed this movie and is uh delivers a supporting performance in this movie where it's like it it just could not be any more of a home run she's incredibly funny in the movie the movie itself is incredibly funny she would have gone on to do more movies like this or not like this, but like, certainly with a distinct

point of view, because I think her comedic sensibility is incredibly sweet, but also has this biting, like, cutting groundedness to it that, like, is, you know, very charming and winning, and it's just like, it just kind of casts an air of sadness around the movie, because the movie is so, like, good at being uplifted, you know? Well, and the thing, so Adrian Shelley was sort of ensconced in the independent film, you know, ether of the 1980s and early 90s, especially. And in a very sort of, like, idiosyncratic niche, she was a big player in the films of Hell Hartley, who's, I don't think I've ever seen a Hell Hartley, actually, but, like, his movies were definitely, like a big presence around that time never really crested into commercial appeal and so I feel like Adrian Shelley herself like about as commercial as like how 100% would be because this

is a fairly like mainstream movie or at least an accessible movie yeah like I mean the fact that it played Buffalo was like it tells you all that you need to know about like how mainstream it got because we didn't get the really really sort of like significantly indie things but So Adrian Shelley was sort of a New Yorker through and through. She had been like, when she was younger, she had done like stage dorm manner and whatever and sort of came up through that, like I said, into the independent films of Hal Hartley. She had, she lived in New York with her husband and her young daughter, her daughter, I believe is the girl who plays Jenna's daughter in the final scene. where she's, like, walking down the road, the sort of, like, toddler-age daughter.

And then also had this office that she worked in, which was essentially just like an apartment in Greenwich Village. I remember when I was sort of, in my first few years in New York City, a friend of mine, my friend David, who is also, sadly, no longer with us, sort of, like, took me on a walking tour of the West Village. That was the first time I'd ever been to Julius. He sort of, like, introduced me to, like,

Julius, which is this now landmark bar in the West Village. But he was sort of like pointing around all the sights and sound of the West Village. And one of the things he was looking, that's the building where Adrian Shelley was murdered. And it's sort of, you know, part of the

firmament there a little bit anyway. So she was working out of her office, and she was murdered by somebody who was working essentially construction in that building. And the story sort of changed at the very first she was found sort of hanging from a shower rod and so that was why people thought it was a suicide at first her family refused to accept that for you know myriad reasons and they pressed the police to investigate and eventually the story has changed a couple of times the first version of it the one that sort of like stuck with me because it was so sorted was that Adrian had sort of hollered at these construction workers from making too much noise, and one of the guys

threw a wrench at her, and then for fear that she would then call the cops on him, followed her up into her apartment and murdered her. And then that story changed after further investigation, and it then became sort of a straight-up robbery. This guy had gone into her apartment to rob her. She had walked in on him and he killed her. And I believe that is now what is currently accepted as the most likely thing that

happened. But anyway, for years and years and years, I was like, I'm never yelling at anybody for making too much noise because I'm not going to suffer a similar fate. But anyway, it's a really sort of sordid tale and and, you know,

terrifying and horrifying, but like a horrible way for anybody to die, but especially you know, this artist who people knew and who had, you know, an emotional attachment to her through her work. It's, um... Someone who is known as, you know, a light and to go in such kind of a dark way. And then so Sundance 2007, uh, they bring waitress to the festival and the premiere of it was this, you know, they had spoken at the premier producers of the movie and her husband was there, talked about how they didn't want the premiere to be.

like awake. They wanted to have a more sort of celebratory atmosphere, which obviously was, you know, maybe easier said than done. But I think, you know, you hear quotes from people who were there, Carrie Russell and such, just sort of talking about the bittersweetness of this, you know, this Sundance placement that Adrian Shelley was really hoping to get for her movie and how surreal it was to be there with the movie and for to have her not be there. So it was one of the big stories of that year's Sundance Film Festival was this premiere. I believe it premiered out of competition,

but was one of the sort of like Sundance premieres. And obviously a lot of movies go to Sundance, not necessarily to compete, but to compete for distribution, especially in those days. And so it got bought by Searchlight for $5-ish million and became a little indie success

in the late sports and early summer of 2007. So those are sort of the gritty details of the backstory of waitress. But is there anything you wanted to add to that? I mean, we're going to get into everything else about what this movie's legacy would become. Just that it's, I mean, again, it's still sad and a bummer

that she never really got to see just how, bigger movie would kind of become to the point where it's like we almost don't even talk about the movie anymore because we talk about the because the musical has become so popular yes yeah yeah how many of those musicals fans don't even realize that what an incredible sort of like story from like the very very sort of like low key indie movies of hell hartley in the 1980s and 90s to you know sarah borellis and jessie muller and their tony award success for waitress the musical you know, decades later, it's Hollywood's a funny place sometimes

and not a Tony Award success though because I don't think Waitress won any Tonys because famously, waitress was in the Hamilton season. Oh, I always misremember that Jesse Mueller's Tony was for beautiful, wasn't it?

Oh, let's look that up. She definitely has won a Tony and in my mind I misremember it. I think it was only for beautiful, but it is quite possible that... She was, yeah, No, she's only won the One Tony Award, I'm pretty sure. But, and I think it is for Beautiful. In my mind, it's for Waitress, though. That's so funny because I saw Waitress and I didn't see Beautiful.

Waitress won, no Tony. Yeah, yeah, you're right. Well, in my head, they did. So I really like, it's interesting. Waitress is an interesting musical in that I really enjoyed watching it. And yet what I remember of it is, Jesse Mueller's performance, and like the music, but when I say the music, I mostly mean she used to be mine. Like, it's, it's one of those musicals with like one really, really big

standout song that, and sometimes for me that's enough. Sarah Borellis had released a demo of it beforehand, so it's like that song was already like known to be like, okay, well, here it is. Sarah's version of that song is, I think, that song in its best form. She's imperfect, but she tries. She is Good But she lies She is

Hard on herself She is broken And won't ask for help She is messy But she's kind She is lonely Most of the time Which I think is a little bit

the sacrilege when you talk about musical theater, because, like, the original cast recording is supposed to be, like, the prime, you know, object there. But I think through no shade at all to Jesse Neulish performance, who I thought was wonderful. But, like, it just hits different when it's coming from Sarah Borellis, who is one of... It's a song that, because I've heard other actresses do versions of it, and a lot of, they put a lot of powerhouse singers in this role, and they end up overdoing it. Like, I am not one. one to talk ill of Soshana Bean ever. Well, and also, like, that's what we have Shoshana Bean for.

We have Shoshana Bean to overdo it. Like, that is why we love her. But, yes, I agree with it. Noted Republican Catherine McPhee does not do a very good job with it either, in my opinion. Yeah, yeah. No, I think Sarah's version of it. I think you're right, though. I think it's the most grounded version of it.

And it is, it's a beautiful song that always does sort of like hit me in a in a weirdly personal place. But anyway, I really like, yeah. So I like where this movie's story ends up, even though it ends up in a place that I can't imagine Adrian Shelley could have ever imagined. This is where it ended up. But here we are.

And now, of course, we're talking about it today on our podcast. So do we want to maybe plow forward into a plot description? And then we will move on to talk about the movie itself. I want to talk about the movie. I want to talk about the precursor awards that it was up for. I want to talk about pies, Chris. I definitely want to have a little bit of an extended discussion about the pies. I want to have at least a small conversation about the noted landmark television program, Felicity.

Oh, we shall. Felicity and talking about Carrie Russell's career will be a real interesting one because that is when I'm going to talk about. the Mickey Mouse Club on Disney Channel that I watched every goddamn day. But before we do that, Chris, I'm going to bring out my little timer, and we're going to have you do a 60-second plot description on the film Waitress from 2007. Not only have we not done this show in several weeks. I have not done this in a while.

In a while. Yeah, limber up, my friend. We're going to be talking about Waitress, written and directed by Adrian. Shelly, starring Carrie Russell, Nathan Fillion, Jeremy Sisto, Cheryl Hines, Adrian Shelley, Andy Griffith, Eddie Jemison, Lou Temple, the movie premiered at the Sundance Film Festival on January 21st, 2007. It opened in limited release on May 4th, 2007. It ended up expanding, although never more. I don't think it ever got to the point of like a thousand screens or something like that, but it definitely expanded throughout its run. Chris, I have my Stopwatch, ready and waiting to go. Are you ready to do a 60-second plot description of a waitress? Fire up the oven. Let's bake this pie.

All right. Sugar butter, flour. Let's go. Your time starts now. All right. So we meet Jenna at the very beginning of the movie. She is a waitress in a southern diner. She is married to a piece of shit named Earl.

She is pregnant and does not want to be. Basically, she ends up going, keeping it a secret from her husband that she's pregnant. She is going to keep the baby, basically. but she has very dark feelings about it. Meanwhile, we're just like kind of seeing her everyday life, including Earl, who is a self-involved piece of shit who sometimes hits her. She is also friends with her fellow waitresses, Becky, and Dawn.

Becky is having a relationship with the, like, gruff cook, who's actually kind of a nice guy. Dawn, also played by Adrienne Shelley, is dating, trying to date. She wants to fall in love. She wants to get married. And she ends up dating basically the heterosexual, Leslie Jordan. Meanwhile, all along there is Andy Griffith as a old man who only ever lets Jenna be his waitress. She has an affair. I should get into the affair. She has an affair with her OBGYN, who is married. Eventually, she keeps trying to go into these pie contests. Earl keeps finding out and he keeps hitting her about it. She has the baby immediately falling in love with the baby that she didn't even think that she wanted and leaves Earl. And then Andy Griffith dies and gives her a bunch of money and she buys the diner and makes her own pyro.

restaurant and is happy with a baby. 16 seconds over, but you know what, you're getting back into playing shape, and... It took me 45 minutes. You did not get to that affair. The same plot of the movie, which is the affair. You did manage to mention

Eddie Jemison playing the heterosexual Leslie Jordan, which is not a bad descriptor for that character. A character who I think today, much as I would wish that people would sort of like be a little, like, be a little lighten up a little bit about movies, I definitely think you would get at the very least

some sort of this character is problematic because he doesn't take no for an answer. When a woman tells you that she's not interested Ulysses. His version of not taking no for an answer, though, is just creating another poem? Yes, exactly, exactly. But you know what I mean. You know how people are.

But anyway, yes. This wonderful poem that's like, Penny for your eyes, Penny for your lips. penny for something something a dollar for your heart a dollar for it no one of the pennies is like a penny for your odor which is just what a goof um the one cast member that he didn't mention because she's only in one scene but uh derby stanchfield shows up for a scene as dr pommeter's wife who was also a doctor a derby stanchfield who uh i know best as abby from the show scandal which uh they definitely watched all of okay um um

Can I just get this out of the way? Get it out of the way. I mean, I think that this is baked in. I don't think that this is me being a jerk about the movie. Oh, I did not mean to do that, but I'm glad I did. Okay, Dr. Pommeter, the man that she's having an affair with, played by Nathan Philean, who's like, you know, it's not that Jeremy Sisto isn't hot, but it's just like, if Jeremy Sisto doesn't take a shower, Jeremy Sisto's not hot anymore. And, like, that's supposed to be the dynamic of this, like, affair and relationship that, like, he's kind of stupid but nice and, like, support it, like, whatever. But, like, he is also a piece of shit, too.

Yes. Well, and I think this is the thing. Maybe not, like, the type of piece of shit that Earl is, but, like, this guy sucks, too. Well, this is why they don't end up together. And I think the movie is very smart about that. And the fact that, like, Dr. Pommeter is a guy who. I think that is a character who shows you what Jenna, how much Jenna would blossom from somebody just being kind to her. Like, she is somebody, she has her friends, obviously, Becky and Dawn at the restaurant, and they're lovely.

And, you know, Andy Griffith's character is, obviously likes her, but, like, shows it at least early in the movie by being a grumpy Gus or whatever. Cal, there's one point where even where she says to Cal at the restaurant she's like, couldn't you just say like something nice? And I think this is a person who has a deficit of people being kind to her,

men being kind to her specifically, not to gender it, but like, yes. And so I think with Dr. Pomerter, there is something to the fact that like she talks about like nobody has ever, you know, talked about her in a way that is like complimentary.

that before. We don't really ever hear this character talk about her family life, her parents in a way. But, like, you wonder whether, you know, she ever sort of had that. And I think you see the fact that she has this doctor who she ends up being sort of like involuntarily attracted to. And I think one of the things she's attracted to is there's this guy who is telling her, if you have any questions or concerns, come to me. And I will be kind to you about it. And and I think that makes a big difference for her. But I think the fact that she doesn't end up with him also is owed to the fact that she knows

that this is a guy who is cheating on his wife with her and that is not something that she wants, ultimately. Yeah. And it is a better movie for them not ending up together, but I feel like maybe I realize too early when I watch this movie that he doesn't deserve her. It's maybe too early. So that it sounds.

It sours the romance. Yeah, because it's like, yes, it's good that she's having this, but you're also very concerned for her and her safety the whole time because we've already seen Earl's violence side. Yeah, yeah. But, yeah. I think this is also a movie that is not terribly sentimental about those kinds of things.

So I think those rules, the fact that, like, Becky is cheating on, cheating on her husband, who we never really see. But who is, we are told, is an invalid who is bedridden, with Kale, who has a wife who we also don't really see beyond, like, I think we, like, see her in the background of a shot or something,

but who Jenna is like, we know, what is her name? Ethel, something? Something with an E. Like, we know her. She's nice. She tells Kail not to yell at us. Like, so it's, I think this movie

is fairly unsentimental about things like infidelity and sort of like takes it as almost like a part of life, you know what I mean? And that, like, and I think in that way, to me, at least, it softens the fact that Dr. Pomer is, is cheating on his wife and sort of puts it in a little bit of a relaxed context. Ultimately, I think, like, this movie's not not a romantic comedy, but I think the romance side of it is not really what matters. It's kind of about, like, those people's individual experiences within those relationships. and like...

It's mostly a movie about this, you know, the Jenna character kind of self-actualizing in a way, you know, not to make it sound too, like... A reawakening. Right, yeah. Not to make it sound like a Hallmark card. Well, but also, and like, that's why you get all these interstitials of her, like, baking the pie.

I think this is a movie that takes her talent seriously, which I really like, um, that she has a real talent for making these pies in a way that is both like, the, you know, The culinary aspects of it is one thing, but also it just in a way that connects her to other people, right? That is how she ends up connecting with Joe. You get the sense of, like, that's why Cal keeps her on, even though, like, I imagine, like, all the stuff with Earl and, you know, doesn't make it. I can't imagine it's fun to have this, like, asshole barreling his car into your parking lot and, like, lean in on the horn as it comes in.

And she's all worried that Cal is going to maybe fire her when she says that she's pregnant. And he's like, yeah, no, it doesn't make a difference. And you get the sense that part of the reason for that is he knows how talented she is with these pies. And everybody loves them. And it's how she kind of connects to, you know, her community a little bit. I mean, some people are probably going to want to, like, shoot me straight into space for saying this. But, like, the best romance in this movie is between Jenna and Joe. Yes, 100%.

that like these are the only I mean they have a real courtship and that like care for each other in this movie but I think that they are the relationship in this movie where there are two people who allow each other to be them full their full selves and they appreciate each other for being them their full selves they're both they're basically the two curmudgins of the movie um getting an unfriendly person to be your friend like an unfriendly person who isn't like a bad person you know what I mean? who isn't, like, doing nasty things or whatever, but just a generally sort of, like, unfriendly person. Getting an unfriendly person to be your friend is such an accomplishment. It's one of those things where it's just like, yeah. The way to do it, though, is to let them be unfriendly to not create any inhibitor for their unfriendliness. Their chemistry is very, very fun. He ends up getting, Andy Griffith ends up getting a AARP Movies for Grownups Award nomination for Best Supporting Actor.

Hell yeah. Which is like a perfect M4G's choice, I think. It's that Simpsons joke about how old, what do old people really care about? They care about Matlock. It's like AARP is not beating those allegations with that nomination. Like, they are really- It's a good nomination. It's a good nomination.

I would like Andy, okay, because we, we're not going to get into this yet, but because we've already drawn the Little Miss Sunshine comparison. Yes. I would like an Andy Griffith nomination more than I like the Alan Arkin one. Ah, well, and it's sort of along similar lines, right? The irascible old guy who, like, you know, says outrageous things. Andrew Griffith doesn't really like... The asshole with a heart of gold.

Yeah, basically. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And your main character who, I think, in many ways... Little Miss Sunshine has a lot of main characters, but, like, in many ways, Olive is kind of your focal point character, right? She's another one who, you know, she's got the big dreams of that family. And the fact that that character... sort of latches on to

Alan Arkin. It's a similar. It's a similar thing. But yeah, no, I love the relationship between Jenna and Joe in this movie. Joe's also the only person, aside from Jenna in the big climactic moment, who gets to tell off Earl, because it's his restaurant, and he, like, Earl comes in and makes a scene one night, breaks some shit. At Don's wedding, of all things.

Yes. And Joe, because Joe passes away, the same day, that, well, not the same day. He goes into a coma, and he never comes out. But he's having this major surgery the same day that Jenna's having her baby, which is just this nice conceit. He gets to show up there for, and come say hello to Jenna, but he also gets to tell off Earl, and we get the satisfaction of having, not just someone, but him specifically.

Him specifically. He's also the only person in this movie who sort of has power, right? He's rich, and because he is rich, he can say whatever. he wants to say, and he can make his order at the diner as specific as he wants it to be about whether ice belongs in his juice glass or not, and he wants, you know, everything on a separate plate. I love Joe there. You do not put ice in juice.

In orange juice? Oh, I think orange juice over ice is a good deal. That's disgusting. Wait, how do you have a screwdriver? Do you have it with no ice? That's a screwdriver. That's not orange juice. It's orange juice with some vodka in it.

Vodka doesn't change the properties of it. cocktail. Chris, come on. Straight orange juice with ice is gross. No, listeners, back me up on this. At hat underscore Oscar underscore buzz. Way in. Do you agree with Chris or do you agree with me?

What juice could you put ice with and have it not be? Cranberry juice. Cranberry juice on ice. Doesn't that sound refreshing and lovely? I think it does. Less refreshing than straight cranberry juice. Okay. All right.

I need our listeners to weigh in on it. I love the shit that we can get into a fight. about on this um wait so what but wait so yeah so joe is the only one with any kind of uh real power in this in this film and ultimately he uses that to help pull jena out of her circumstance and how much do you think the check is that i paused it okay i paused it it's two something it's i believe it is 275 thousand and something like it's it's it's not it's weirdly like not a round number it's like 270 $75,052 or something like that.

Right, because he's an old man. It has to be a weird dollar amount. Right. He can't just leave her a million dollars. It has to be like an old person writing you a trek for $11. Also, pausing it, I looked at the information on the check to find, figure out where this movie is taking place. Because it's the generalized south. The literal, the address that it has on the check is like rural root something southern USA.

And I was like, oh, okay. Like, we are that dedicated to this being the non-specific South. I thought that was kind of funny. But, yeah, I believe it is somewhere in the range of the high 200,000s that he gives her. And good for her. And good for him. 16 years ago in the generalized South. Yeah.

That'll take you far, honestly. Okay. But one thing that I did, because I didn't catch it on this rewatch, I always thought that he left her the restaurant, but does she buy it? Does he give her this money and give her a restaurant? Because however, if she inherits a restaurant, that's all going to taxes and she's going to, you know, like, I think the restaurant ends up going up for sale because he dies and he doesn't have any family to give it to.

And I think she uses that money to buy the restaurant. I think you may be right that he didn't want to settle her with the tax burden of, boy, that's in the interesting way of getting around the IRS. All right. You let the restaurant go to, I guess, auction or whatever, and then give whoever you want to have it enough money to get it. Clever, Joe. Clever. We did it, Joe.

Okay. I want to talk. Wait, what was I watching recently that did a We Did It Joe, completely, like, devoid of modern context. Damn it. Oh, no. I think it's this. She says we did it, Joe. Yeah, but it was before this that I, it was something that I'd seen.

maybe like a week ago or so. And I can't remember now. Oh, no, it was the 2002 Oscars. One of the winners, the short film winner said to their friend who had died in the Twin Towers. We did it, Joe. Well, this is more lighthearted than that. And then they thanked Mori Povich. And then they thanked Mori Povich.

Go listen to our episode of Little Gold Men about the 2002 Oscars. We had a really good time talking about that. I want to talk about Carrie Russell, though. who I think is really lovely in this movie. And this movie comes at a really interesting crossroads for her character. This movie sort of represents a little bit of a connective tissue between her, one phase of her career and then what would become her sort of next phase. She is one of the, people don't quite realize how rare it is for a actor or actress to have two distinctly popular TV shows in a career. to sort of, especially where one is a sort of, like, Felicity is not necessarily a comedy, but it's like a, you know, college drama, right?

Is essentially a more mature teen drama. It is from that sort of milieu. And then the Americans is this very sort of, like, you know, serious and sexy and fun, like, espionage thriller, but, like, heavy. Yeah. It's a drama. The shows themselves could not be any more different than the characters could not be any more different. It's a real range. Characters could not be any more different.

And so I think that, and she's still somebody who doesn't have a huge presence in movies. Waitress is still probably the most, the highest profile she's ever been in a film. She's been in bigger movies, but like she's in Rise of Skywalker and you never see her face. You know what I mean? I think she pulls that mask off. Does she? That piece of shit movie. Yeah, I think at some point I had like stopped paying attention.

But like she's in Dawn of the Planet of the Apes, but like does anybody really remember her? Well, but even if you remember those movies, you remember, like, the ape, right? You don't remember her. She's in Cocaine Bear coming up, which, like, is sort of the ostensibly the reason we said we were going to do Waitress, but she's also, again, like, in an ensemble there, right? And also, like, what are people going to remember about Cocaine Bear? They're going to remember the fucking Cocaine Bear, right? So her movie career is still an interesting thing. And maybe she's just one of those people who's going to, like, kick ass on TV for the rest of her career. And, like, maybe that's exactly where she needs to be. I think we are probably on the verge of,

we are, we are at this point overdue for the next great Carrie Russell TV show is maybe what I'm thinking of. But anyway, I want to talk about her career from the earliest stages because 1991, she joins the cast of what is officially called the all-new Mickey Mouse Club, which was on the Disney Channel, and I watched that show constantly. Like, whenever it was, I can't remember whether it was on daily. I think it was on daily. On the Disney Channel, so many of the things that, like, embedded their way into my consciousness as a kid.

This is why, like, I know the movie Newsies, basically by heart is because it was on the Disney Channel constantly. But so this era of the Mickey Mouse. Club is now from this vantage point known for launching the careers of Britney Spears, Christina Aguilera, Justin Timberlake, Ryan Gosling. All four of those came at like a, like, not a new version of the show, but like every year they would introduce new cast members, right? And so they were like two or three like generations of this cast on before we got to Ryan Gosling and Britney Spears and Christina. But so Carrie Russell was in, I want to see, like, the second generation

of All New Mickey Mouse Club, like one of the first, like, new waves of young talent. And she came in when J.C. Chasse, I'm pretty sure, came in. And she was this, like, just gorgeous girl, but like her hair even then was kind of her signature, right? This sort of like, this big sort of like main of beautiful curly hair. That was her thing. And the Mickey Mouse Club then, they would like, they would do songs and skits essentially, right? It was sort of this like, you know, the tween age, teenage variety show.

And the people who could sing always kind of jumps to the front. That's why Brittany and Christina and J.C. and Justin sort of, you know, jumped out from this show. And Carrie, I think, would sing when called upon, but like wasn't really, that wasn't her thing, right? And I think Ryan Gosling probably, I think by the time Ryan Gosling was on,

I had stopped watching it so much, so I think I'd gotten a little bit older. But Carrie Russell was just sort of like, she was big in all the skits, right? And so she transitioned from that to, she was in the Disney movie, Honey I Blew Up the Kid, which was the sequel to Honey I Shrunk the Kid.

Shrunk the Kids was the first one. She's sort of the babysitter, I want to say. I don't know. Sure. I've seen Honey. I blew up the kid, but I really don't remember it. I've definitely not seen that movie in 25 years. I think she's babysitting, the toddler that ends up, the titular toddler that gets blown up.

But anyway, she's also around this time. The only other thing I had remembered seeing her in pre-Felicity but post-Micky Mouse Club is she's in the music video for Bon Jovi's Always, if you remember that one, where it's one of those. It's from the era of, like, plot. heavy music videos. And in this music video, Jack Knowsworthy, who was the guy, do you remember the show Dead at 21 on MTV? No. Okay. It was essentially like, this guy is on the run from the government because they, like, messed with his, you know, brain experimented on him or something, and he's on the run. Anyway, this guy is this, like, rocker guy in L.A., right? And he's got a girlfriend played by Carla Gugino, and they're, like, hot, and they live in a lot. And they live in a

loft in LA and like he's a rocker guy and she's sort of his not quite like manager but she's sort of like you know she's there for him right and she's at the club with him and he ends up cheating on her with Carrie Russell who is like their friend and she catches them because he like sets up a camera to like record him and Carrie Russell having sex and it's like beamed into the TV in the living room And so Carla Gugino comes home at an in an opportune time, and she sees him doing it on the TV. And then she leaves...

The tropious thing of 90s infidelity stories. Somebody was recording someone. Indeed. And then Carla Gugino runs off, and then she ends up sleeping with this, like, artist, who, like, paints her painting and then has sex with her in his big fancy loft. And then Jack knows where he comes and walks in on them. And that guy, the artist, was the guy who played Kelly Taylor's Coke-addicted boyfriend in the later seasons of Ben Beverly Hills and Now, actually I know. But so, and then Jack Knowsworthy, like, burns down this guy's apartment in retaliation for having sex with Carla Gugino, and then Carla Gugino walks away from it all with, with, like, the burning apartment behind her, and she's like, I'm done with this. And that's the end of the Bon Jovi music video for always. And I watched that music video eight billion times. But I remember being struck by the fact that, like, oh, Carrie Russell's, like, all grown up. She's, like, in, like, low-rise jeans and, like, a bra top in this scene where she's, you know, about to have sex with this guy. And I was like, oh, God, like, it's one of those, you know.

This is pre or post Felicity? Pre Felicity. This is probably, like, 95-ish. Wow, wow, wow, wow. Yes, pre-Filicity, exactly. So, yeah, she's like young. She's like a teenager in this video. And so then Felicity comes in 1998.

I know that it's 1998 without having to look it up because Felicity's college years layer onto my college years exactly. She started college in 1998 just the same time that I did, which bonds us in some elemental way. So talk to me about Felicity. How much of Felicity do you vividly remember? Because I've wanted to rewatch Felicity because Felicity, for whatever reason, was not sticky to my brain, but it was everything to me when it was on. I liked it more than we had to sneak off to watch Dawson's Creek, so I would like piece me. get Dawson's Creek, but somehow I was able to sneak watching Felicity. Like, I, Felicity meant more to me than Buffy did.

Okay, so I remember so little beyond that one guy getting hit by a bus. Wait, which guy gets hit by a bus and Felicity? Does he get hit by a bus or a car? The guy that she's like, I don't want to date you, and he's like... Scott Speedman or, um, uh, Scott Foley. I don't think it's either of them. I think there's some dude. There's another guy.

He's in love with her, and she kind of says, no, and, like, he's, like, upset and then gets hit by a bus in front of her. And dies? No. Oh. I don't know. Okay, so here's my thing with Felicity. It's the only thing that's stuck in my brain from Felicity, but it meant everything to me. I was much, much more of a Buffy, and then, weirdly by extension, Dawson's Creek, because Buffy and Dawson's Creek were on the same night.

So I watched the both of those. Buffy was my entry point into, no. No, that's wrong. I started watching Buffy because I watched the premiere of Dawson's Creek because of like pure curiosity. And that got me into Buffy, but then I was like a Buffy fan first and then a Dawson's Creek fan because it was on the same night. Felicity, I remember so much of the conversation around it. It was such a big deal. It launched her.

She won the Golden Globe for that show's first season. One of the Golden Globes sort of, they had a run of like awarding Claire Daines and Carrie Russell and Jennifer Garner. They still do the ingenues. It's just sometimes now their endues are men. Well, but now also, yeah, right. It's like they used to do the ingenues for the Golden Globes and then, but otherwise behaved more or less like the Emmys. Whereas now the Golden Globes, it's like, oh, it's like, oops, all marshmallows.

Like, you know, it's like the Lucky Charms where it's just all marshmallows. That's the Golden Globes for television these days. But anyway, so, like, Felicity was obviously a big deal when it did. debuted, Carrie Russell was a big deal. Then the haircut happened at the beginning of season two. And that was a big deal. And then also in like its later seasons, like it like did a time travel storyline and all this sort of like odd stuff. And I didn't watch Felicity faithfully, but I did maybe in the mid to late aughts when like Netflix first started and you could like get like DVDs of TV shows sent to you. That's when I watched the run.

of Felicity. And I really, really loved it. And that's a show with, like, loved all of those cast members of that show. Like, they all really sort of, like, imprinted on me. Oh, but the other thing, even before the haircut, well, around the same time of the haircut, the thing that Felicity did was, was the first big show that I remember that, like, got people onto teams in terms of shipping, right? You either wanted Felicity to be with Ben, who was played by Scott Speedman, I believe I was team Ben. As was I. Or you wanted her to be with Noel, who was played by Scott Foley, who was a little bit more neurotic and was like, I guess, the nice guy, even though the thing about, like, Felicity is Ben wasn't really, like, not the nice guy.

He was more aloof. The fucking worst tropes of especially the 90s, the nice guy trope that it's like, oh, but she should be with the nice guy, but the nice guy is actually a fucking asshole. Well, but I think that Felicity did a decent job of being like, yeah, Noel's the nice guy. These are reasons why she would be with Noel, but these are also reasons why she wouldn't want to be with Noel. And did a good job of, like, again, like, Ben is more like aloof. And like the thing about Ben is Felicity follows Ben from Palo Alto, where she was originally going to go to college at Stanford. And she, like, threw that away to follow Ben to New York to go to the fictional University of New York, which is essentially NYU and all but name. and live in these, like, fabulous loft apartments in freshman dorm housing.

But anyway, follows... Our lighting at all times. Follows a boy across the country to go to college because this guy said, like, one nice thing to wear at graduation. And so it's like this cautionary tale of, like, you know, don't do that, essentially. But Ben then turns out to be... Never would have happened if she could have stayed in touch with him on Facebook. But then after a while, Ben sort of then like gets a thing for Felicity and then it becomes this whole big fucking

like triangle as triangles go like later triangles like Buffy Spike Angel was super annoying because the fans got like absolutely insane. The thing about Ben or Noel is those fans dug their heels in but I think the show did a good job of like keeping that kind of balanced a little bit like they kept throwing in impediments to like Ben would get a girlfriend and Like, Ben would be with Julie, the Amy Jo Johnson character. And then, like, Noel would get a girlfriend who was, like, the Doritos girl or whatever. And do you remember that? What was her name?

Not the Doritos girl. You remember that, though, right? You remember those ads were like, oh, of course. Yes. Anyway, I loved Felicity. Felicity was... I'm going to rewatch Felicity this year. If I had been more into...

See, if Felicity was a show that was on while I was in high school, I might have gone to college in New York City and be paying mountains and mountains and of college debt as we speak. Because it, like, it really does make you want to... All you needed was a Scott Speedman to be like, see you around sometime. Oh, if I had a Scott Speedman who was like nice to me in that way at graduation and then was like, see in New York, I'd be like, yeah, I would have done what Felicity did. Like, absolutely. See you tonight, honey.

Okay. So you mentioned that Felicity haircut, fully a moment, fully at time. And I'm sure I will text you a... as soon as I get to the episode where she chops off her hair. But there is something also, especially about the late 90s specifically, because when did Rachel change her hair and then change it back to the Rachel? I'm doing a rewatch of Sex in the City now, and you can tell the exact, because like sex in the city starts out, like, kind of like,

oh, it's crunchy. It is crunchy early on. It is crunchy at the beginning. Yes, it is. And, like, it's late 90s in a way that's not quite fabulous. yet. But, like, the show levels up quite literally on the episode that Carrie straightens her hair. And, like, it lasts for, like, three episodes, and then it goes back to Sarah Jessica Barker's curly hair again. But, like, the show, like, it starts looking better. It's shot better. The costumes get better. The episode Carrie straightens her hair. It's wild.

That's crazy. I do remember that, though, in the promos, that the one promo, that the one promo that, they have. And I think it's like, it also almost weirdly coincides with like after 9-11. Remember how like Sex and the City? Like that's episode. That's season fours. 9-11 is not until mid-season four. Yeah. Because the mission statement of that show like very clearly changes to like, that's the, that famous SNL skit where Christina Aguilera is playing Kim Cottrell and she's like, New York's the fifth whore at this table. Like that sort of that is what I think of when I think of like post-9-11, like sex in the city becoming like, the emblem of New York City.

That's when, like, the city becomes very, very important, you know, in the show's mythos, really. But yes, everybody freaked out when Felicity cut her hair. They blamed that for the show's downfall in the ratings, which was really rude, truly rude of a thing to do to an actress. So after then Felicity, she does. I'm like, guest start, I remember, it's so funny, it says she's only, she only did two episodes of Scrubs, and in my mind, she did like half a season of Scrubs. Right. But she doesn't really, she pops up into movies sparingly.

I remember her very much in, so Felicity ends in 2002, and I don't remember seeing her in much of anything after that until the upside of anger, which is 2005. She plays one of Joan Allen's four daughters along with, Evan Rachel Wood. Yeah. Evan Rachel Wood, Erica Christensen, and... Allison Lowe? Alicia Witt.

Ah. Alicia Witt. And she's the one, Carrie Russell, who is the ballet dancer, who is... Sure. Perhaps has something of an eating disorder burgeoning happening. I believe, like, I think I remember. We should do the upside of anger soon. What a great movie.

And then in 2006, J.J. A. Abrams gets tasked with directing the new Mission Impossible movie. And of course, J.J. Abrams was the big superstar producer on Felicity. And he brought her in to co-star in Mission Impossible 3 as, like, a fellow agent, I believe. She's the, like, it almost feels like this is, Mission Impossible 3 is closer to, like, Bond tropes. Because she's the misdirect. She's the famous name. It's her Michelle Monaghan who, like, Michelle Monaghan, like, we know her by name way more now than we did then.

And we thought that Carrie Russell was going to get the big starring role. But she's the one who surprisingly dies in the first act. Yes. And like Michelle Monaghan ends up being like she has a chip in her brain or something that they blow off and she's just like suddenly dead. Yes. But I always love the fact that like J.J. Abrams was, you know, so loyal to her and wanted to, you know, bring her. into this movie because at this point she really is a TV actress

a TV actress who hadn't been on TV for four years and so then she pivots off of that in 2007 she's in Waitress, which premieres at Sundance she's also in that movie August Rush that we can't talk about because it was the best traditional song nominee

the movie about what's the plot of that movie is Robin Williams is Robin Williams Yeah, it's the one Or, like, Freddy Highmore is, like, the kid who's, like, a music prodigy. The good doctor before he was the good doctor. But, like, isn't Robin Williams, like, isn't it sort of like a searching for Bobby Fisher

thing where, like, he goes and, like... Oh, sure. He wants to be, like, an acoustic musician or something. Yeah, yeah. But I think Robin Williams is like the, like, almost like the Lawrence Fishburn playing chess in the park kind of a figure for this kid. Sure, sure, sure. I could be wrong.

Anyway, I saw August rush, and I definitely don't remember the first. Finder Points of the Plot, I guess. Best Original Song nominee, sure. So then, yeah, so Waitress, I think, gives her a little bit of a career boost, even though she doesn't really, like, springboard from that into this, like, great movie career, right? But then eventually, she's, again, she's in Scrubs. Fox tries to do this sitcom with her and Will Arnett post-arrested development. called Running Wild that, like, I remember watching a little bit and thinking she was pretty

funny in it, but it did not last. And then the Americans doesn't come along until 2013. So, like, either she's really picky or Hollywood doesn't have the faith in Carrie Russell that it maybe should, because she's tremendous on the Americans. Well, and even the Americans was kind of a slow building thing across its seasons because it was mostly a critical fave at first, and, like, people had to kind of, you know,

be proselytized to watch it. But, like, by the end of its run, it was a very celebrated show. Oh, hugely celebrated show, especially among TV critics. TV critics really loved it. Did Matthew Reese end up winning an Emmy for that show? Is that right? Yeah, because there's

that great screenshot of her during his speech. Though, did he win for maybe directing the show? No, I think he won for acting. I'm pretty sure. Yeah. Okay, so 2018, Matthew Reese wins outstanding lead actor in a drama series for the Americans. And that's the biggest prize that that show ever wins. Yeah, and won that same year also for writing and

for the series finale. Both Matthew Reese and the show's writing award came for the series finale of that show. That I remember also being, I think about that in the same way that I think about how Friday Night Lights was a late, the Emmys sort of came to that show late, and Kyle Chandler won a Emmy for that show. And I remember of both of those feeling bad that, like, Connie Britton and Carrie Russell didn't win Emmys, but the male leads win. The other thing, though, obviously about the Americans, is Carrie Russell and Matthew Reese end up getting together via the Americans, and they are married now, or are they just one of those, like, hot, we're not, we don't need to get married couples, even though we're together. I mean, regardless of what the situation is, they're a hot couple. they're oh like I always think about that way I want to see yes married in 2021 more recently than you would maybe think because they've been together for a while so anyway I always think about I can't remember what was the the one Wanda Sykes special where she's talking about the obamas and she just goes and you know they're fucking like that's and I always think about that when I see Kerry Russell and Matthew Reese is like you know they're fucking like they are so super hot together simply one of

of the hottest couples in Hollywood. Cast them in a movie together. I will watch it. Like, come on. Cast them in an Adrian Lion movie together. Fuck, yeah. Put them in dark waters and see what happens. Instantly a better movie, I would bet.

Yeah, honestly. No, I mean, Ben Affleck's not bad in that movie. Listen, you know how I feel about Ben Affleck. I like him about 20% that the rest of the world does, and that's fine. Do we want to talk about anything more about Harry Russell? before we made me move on to other things about this movie? No, legend. I think she's great.

I think she's great in this movie. I really love her a lot. Honestly, one of probably the underrated actresses of her generation. Probably because she's, you know, when she gets to do really strong work, whether it's in TV or movies like this, you know, it's a small burst. She never really gets to. This is a very kind of, without saying it as a pejorie. TV, TV-ish cast, right? Nathan Fillion at this point is best known for being on Firefly, which was the short-lived...

A TV show that lasts for one season. Yes, but what was the year that they did the movie version? I think it was the same year. I think it was Serenity was, no, it was 05. So they did the Firefly movie Serenity in 05, which I remember getting pretty good reviews. But he's also like, it's one of those things where if you are... popular in a show that is popular with, like, fandom, you will live forever, essentially. And so he's brought on to the final season of Buffy as one of the big sort of stretch run villains on that show.

He ends up doing a run on Desperate Housewives around this same time, 2007, 2008, as I believe Dana Delaney's ex-husband or husband, I think that's who he was. But you can always tell these guys who are, like, super, super popular with, oh, also around this time he did that Dr. Horribles sing-along blog, which I remember being a strike year project that Jess Whedon had done. But, like, Nathan Phileon, hugely, hugely popular among fandom. And so will always sort of be, you know, he's prime guest star bait on a lot of things. He will show up.

Do you watch Big Mouth? I used to. Every once in a while, Big Mountain did not need to be as many seasons as it ended up being. I still, like, every year I'll watch it, and I will very much enjoy it. But so Missy, the character that Iowa Debris voices now. Fantastic. Her sort of imaginary friend is imaginary Nathan Philean,

who, like, essentially, like, advises her on things and is a space captain of an, you know, unspecific show or whatever. and I always find that super delightful and he voices himself in that I of course am obligated to mention that I first came into contact with Nathan Phillyan as Joey Buchanan

on One Life to Live because he was the Joey Buchanan when I started watching it who was a character who ended up later like becoming a priest or whatever and he came back and he was hot again or whatever but Joey Buchanan was having an affair with the aunt of his girlfriend

He was dating Kelly Kramer, and then he had an affair with Dorian Kramer, and Dorian was one of those fucking, like, soap diva characters who was, like, always getting into trouble and is, like, super over the top, and it was a very scandalous affair indeed. Oh, but Joey, so this is the thing is, like, Dorian's having an affair with Joey, and Joey is the son of her arch enemy, Vicky, Victoria Buchanan, who was, like, the main character of One Life to Live. And so it was a hugely scandalous moment for all of us, and I very much enjoyed it. You don't love Dr. Pomerter in this movie. How do you feel about Nathan Fillion? Nathan Fillion does a lot of the same performances for me. Oh, he absolutely does. Yes.

He does not have a ton of range. I think within that limited range, he can be very charming and very fun. But, yeah, you don't cast this guy to play a variety of notes. Well, I mean, I think. I think he's probably more smartly cast here than he often is, because, like, I think that limitation is put to use in this movie, like, for a lot of the reasons we kind of already talked about with, like, where this relationship eventually goes.

Yeah, yeah. I think Jeremy Sisto is really good in this movie, in a role that is very hard to do well, and to, like, go to that full, you know, narcissistic length in a way that is honest and still not really asking for any audience sympathy whatsoever.

Jeremy Sisto around this time had just been in, or was still in, I guess, a show on NBC called Kidnapped that I remember liking better than its reputation was. It was one of those, like, you know, one season

about one particular kidnapping plot or whatever, and he was the main character, he was like the FBI agent who was tasked with figuring this out. He worked with Delroy Lindo. They were like, it was him and Delroy

Lindo were like the team that was trying to save this kid who had gotten kidnapped, but like Carmen Ojo goes on that show, Timothy Hutton, Daniel Delaney. I remember being like weirdly into that one. It was on. So like, again,

like the TV-ness of this cast, right? Sisto was on a TV show at that time. Cheryl Hines was on Curb Your Enthusiasm at this time, and I think it maybe contributed a little bit to the sense that this movie was a little sitcomy. I think when you heard people sort of detractors of this movie, I think that was maybe one of the things that they would talk about was the movie was maybe a little sitcomy, which, like, I can see, but it's also like that sort of very idiosyncratic Adrian Shelley thing

that she's bringing to it, where it. It is, there's a quaintness to the setup. And then within that, the dialogue is a little quirky, right? And it's a fairly broad, too. Yeah, yeah. I don't know. I tend to hate that as a pejorative. It's the type of pejorative people through at my Big Fat Greek wedding as well.

But it's like, well, which also didn't meet those allegations by becoming a sitcom after that. I mean, yeah, that, yeah. A sitcom that, like, everyone involved says never should have happened. But I don't know. I think that pejorative also, it's a pejorative people throw around because they don't want to just say, this isn't my taste. You know, because, like, especially when you use it towards something like waitress, where it's like, yeah, but that tonal quality you're talking about is something that it is actually using for a reason. and doing a pretty good job at how it uses it, and it does it to reveal character

and not just the lead character, but this whole host of quasi-weirdos. I would rather use the word quirky be used as a pejorative for something like this than sitcom-y. Yeah. Oh, interestingly enough, I'm like, I'm perusing the Wikipedia page. It does say on the Wikipedia page

that the check that Joe gives her is for $270,000 for $270,450. So I was pretty close. But yeah, no, I absolutely agree with you in the fact that it is often a very unnecessary pejorative. Just talk about what it is. If it's not your taste in comedy, then like, say that. Say it's a little too pat, you know what I mean? Or a little too broad or something like that.

Just like sitcom-y in general is, I think, too broad of a brush. the other thing that people kind of used to dog this movie got wrapped up and like this is i forget what year knocked up came out it might be 2007 or it might have been like 2006 but like this movie knocked up and juno all got talked about together because it's all the characters who decide not to have an abortion not even decide to not have an abortion but like very kind of quickly rule out the idea of having an abortion because it would like then you have no movie you know what I mean and I think that was I think that was a lot of the thing that people sort of objected to was like in real life and in real life is also a weird like sometimes a criticism that I don't love even though I often use it I probably should do it less because like this isn't real life this is a specific story this isn't generalized real life this is a specific story right but that like in real life these women in these situations would have given

much more much more thought to the idea of having an abortion I don't think that's true of Jenna though and like maybe that's me imposing real life on this but like it's always been strange that this movie got wrapped up in that discussion and I understand why

like in the broad sense it is frustrating for people to see that in multiple movies but I never felt like it was any one of those movies fault, and each movie kind of justified the decision that, you know, the characters make. This one especially, though, I think is always very strange when it, you know, got lumped into that trend. In Juno, she goes to the point of, like, going to the clinic or whatever, and, like, she, like, does seem to consider that. I think knocked up is the one where people sort of, that's the

one where, like, you know, Seth Rogan can't even say abortion. He says shmush, morsion. And, And that you, you, the incredulity that a character like Catherine Hegel's in that movie wouldn't have an abortion, seems like there doesn't seem to be, I mean, whatever, what's a good reason? Like people's choices are their choices and they should, you know, that's the whole point is to be have, you know, autonomy over your own choices. But I think that was the movie that I think got the most serious criticisms of like, it just, it doesn't maybe pass the smell test.

I don't know. controversies that are 16 years old that I still don't remember That's what we're here to do I want to back up to Oh sorry, go ahead No, go ahead Well, I wanted to back up to Sundance for a second

That's exactly what I was going to segue Hey, look at us This is a cool sundance It's an interesting sundance And I think you make a good point pointing out the Little Miss Sunshine of it all Because Little Miss Sunshine was such a big Sundance success

It sometimes surprises me that Coda last year was the first Sundance movie to win Best Picture. Because I do sometimes have an inflated sense of the Sundance to Best Picture pipeline. Little Miss Sunshine went from Sundance to being an Oscar nominee. Precious did the same thing. Call Me By Your Name later on did the same thing. But it doesn't happen every year. And I think the 2007 Sundance is an interesting case stuff.

in that, in that the closest it gets to Oscar crossover, the only real Oscar crossovers are away from her, which premieres there at that Sundance. It had world premiered, however, at the previous TIF. Oh, okay, that makes a little bit more sense then, but it did play this Sundance. But that's a key distinction. So even away from her doesn't really springboard off of this. Was the Savage's a Sundance premiere then? Or was that?

Yes. Yes. So the Savages premieres. The Savages also goes to Fox Searchlight at that time, too. Ends up getting a best actress nomination for Laura Linney and a best screenplay nomination. Indeed, a very big surprise one. And then Tamara Jenkins gets nominated for screenplay in that year where I believe it was three of the five screenplay nominees, original screenplay nominees, were women, which. This, Lars and the Real Girl and remind me that, well, Sarah Polly's nominated, but in adapted.

And adapted. Maybe that's what I was thinking of. Hold on a second. But that was a story that year of so many female screenwriters. Oh, well, no, it was Juno. It was Diablo Cody. Oh, duh. The winner.

Duh, duh, duh. Yeah. But so it's otherwise from those movies, it's an interesting portrait of where indie film was at the time. So the out-of-competition premieres that I thought were notable, Black Snake Mone, the Craig Brewer movie that got a lot of hullabaloo for its, you know, that poster of like, you know, Samuel Jackson and Christina Ricci and she's chained to the radiator and the whole thing. There was Chapter 27, which was the movie where Jared Leto sort of ostentatiously gains all that weight to play, what's his name, the guy who shot John Lennon, Chapman, Mark David Chapman. Tom Hooper was there with Longford, which I believe ends up becoming a television movie, right?

I don't think that was a theatrical release. John August had that movie, The Nines that I remember really liking Melissa McCarthy in, back in the pre-bridesmaid, the Bridesmaid's era of Melissa McCarthy, the Rod Lurie movie Resurrecting the Champ, the Savages that they mentioned, and then Mike White's directorial debut,

Year of the Dog, which didn't get a ton of attention back then. There's also the documentary No End in Sight, which I think for a while that year was expected to be the Oscar winner. Did I not include that? I should have included that because, yes, that was an Oscar nominee, no end in sight. The competition titles, I think, are even more interesting in that they, none of them really end up making a big impact broadly. But I remember a lot of them. The biggest, most controversial story of this Sundance.

You're talking about hound dog? Hound dog. Hound Dog, the Dakota Fanning movie. How old would she have been in 2007 if... The controversy of this movie is she plays a child that is sexually abused, and it created all this controversy out of this Sundance and people being outraged that, you know, this was depicted, and a lot of the outrage made it seem like it was depicted on screen and depicted graphically. and the truth of the matter to my understanding was that it is something that occurs entirely off screen

but I think because we at this point we'd grown up we'd watch this child actor grow up we'd seen this child performing from the age of six people were really uncomfortable with just that subject matter happening and I don't I think that movie just sat on a shelf

for years after words, which, like, sometimes does happen at Sundance. That's, like, movies just absolutely never see the light of day. But then it ended up, is this one of the ones that ended up being on, like, Lifetime Channel or something? Oh, I think you're thinking of an American crime, which was also that same Sundance, which ended up being a showtime movie. That's the showtime move. Where Elliott Page one, where Elliott Page is locked in the basement or something, yeah. I believe that ended up being a Showtime release.

Looking at this list, though, because 2007 was the year I moved. to New York, and I remember that thing of all of these independent movies are now available to me in a way that they really weren't. I can see. So I remember seeing David Gordon Green Snow Angels in theater and starting out in the evening, the Franklangella movie in a theater. In Teeth, I remember seeing in a theater, the Vagina Dantana movie that got a little bit of buzz. I think of the movies

that came out of Sundance with Buzz that did. I remember watching rocket science on DVD, I believe, which was the movie about, like, competitive debate that Anna Kendrick is in, but I remember liking a little bit. So the audience award winner is maybe one of the more anonymous ones, which is Grace is Gone, which is the movie where John Cusack plays a widower, his wife died in the Middle East. I believe she was a soldier and dies while he's caring for their kids. Golden Globe nominee, Grace is Gone, by the way. Oh, did he get nominated?

I think it's a song nominee. I think you're right. It might even be Bono. Hold, please. I believe you are right. No, it had gotten nominated for, because Clint Eastwood did the score for Grace's Gone. Oh, Jesus Christ. So Clint Eastwood was nominated for both the score and then the song that he co-wrote with Carol Bayer-Sager.

The song is also called Grace's God. It's probably just, you know, him, you know, dropping a couple of forks on a piano and being like, Grace. Grace is gone. Can I tell you the wildest thing, though, about Grace is Gone? So Grace is Gone directed by James C. Strauss, who a career didn't really go too many places. He directed a movie called The Winning Season with Sam Rockwell. He's coaching, I believe, like a girls' basketball team. a movie called People Places Things with Jermaine Clement.

But he has an upcoming movie being released, I believe, this spring, called Love Again, that co-stars one Ms. Celine Dion, my friend. Do you have a question for me? Yes, Miss Dion. Do you really believe in all these things you sing? You obviously know nothing about it. What? Love. I.

Okay, let's get into it. Let's get into it. People don't even understand. And how excited were none other than Miss Celine Dion's acting debut. She's all in that trailer. It's like, you know how sometimes- I will accept no naysaying. I will accept no-n-a-tiny-to-be.

You know how sometimes you watch a trailer that is sort of making a big deal about a certain actor or performer who's in it as, like, a special deal. And you watch it and you're like, all the scenes in this trailer are coming from the same scene. And so I know that this person is only going to, it's like Jeff Goldblum in that one Jurassic World trailer, right? Where you're like, Jeff Goldblum isn't really in this movie. You're only ever seeing him in parts from like one scene. Celine Dion is in that trailer from multiple different scenes. She's in the, she's in the press conference. She's on the phone with Priyanka Chopra.

She's like paling around being like Sam, how do we pronounce his last name, Hewyn? Sure. His best, like his best friend, like advising him on. was in the press release when this movie started filming. Her name's above the title. Her name on the poster is above the title. So I'll, like, this is the title of the movie used to be. It's all coming back to me now.

I mean, it's featured very commonly in that show. Okay, so let's talk about a little bit about the sadness of it because friend of guest Christina Tucker and I were talking about this. We're afraid that this could be the last singing of Celine. that we get. I can't really emotionally get into the possibility of that. But, like, if this ends up being, like, Julie Andrews

Princess Diary 2 singing, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's just going to be so sad. I'm excited to see this movie. I can't wait to see this movie. Also, Christina, come back on our podcast and talk about something so we can talk about love again as a tangent for whatever movie we end up talking about. I will look

when the movie is coming up, I will reach out to Christina and see if we can get her on to talk about literally anything. I can't believe the Clint Eastwood connection to Grace is gone. I had totally forgotten about that. I forgot about that. Jesus Christ. All right.

Remember the age of trying to get Clint Eastwood a best original song or score nomination? They were, they really tried for it. Like, I'm honestly surprised the Golden Globes never actually gave her one. I want to talk about the pies. I would like to eat an arsenic sandwich, please. Chris, let's talk about the pies. I want to talk about, first of all, the pies is. the pies in this movie and then I have a game that I get that I uh the the the like blackberry

chocolate pie I don't know why we ever consider any other pies that's the one that she and Nathan Philean are making in her kitchen where it's and I believe that's the one that she calls lonely Chicago pie yeah like they're like they mash up the berries and then they pour chocolate over them and like they mix up the like the mashed up blackberries and raspberries into this like chocolate ganache looking kind of thing and it looks absolutely incredible so i want to go down the list uh some kind little internet site made a whole list of all of the pies doing the lord's work and what's in them the very very first one all the ones that are like named right i don't want earl's baby pie is the one with uh it's the breed cheese and smoked ham with like

an egg uh uh it's a keesh not a pie that's a keesh listen if jena says it's a pie i I'm going to go with Jenna. She's the one with the restaurant. It looks good. I don't. I like eggs. I like ham. I like Brie.

I like all of those things. So why wouldn't I want to try that in a nice little pie? Kick in the pants pie is cinnamon spice custard. That's fine. That sounds good. I like a custard. I hate my husband pie, which is bittersweet chocolate and you don't sweeten it. Make it into a pudding and drown it in caramel.

I think she's being pretty aggressive with the don't sweeten it. So I imagine it's going to be pretty bitter. I think Jen is probably. With caramel, though, it's... That's true. That is true. I'm willing to give it a shot. I would love to know what goes into the marshmallow mermaid pie that she brings to the doctor, who she doesn't realize is going to be Dr. Pomerter, and he enthuses about it so severely.

But, like... That's got to basically be, like, a lemon meringue pie, but with marshmallows and some other different type of fruit meringue? I love that idea. I'm very much into discovering what's in the marshmallow mermaid pie, because it got brave reviews from Dr. Pommeter. She makes Dawn the fallen in love chocolate moose pie, which sounds like it's one of her, like, popular options. And, like, love a chocolate mousse pie.

Love a chocolate chiffon, you know, kind of a thing. Let's see. Baby screaming its head off in the middle of the night and ruining my life pie, which is New York-style cheesecake, brushed with brandy and topped with pecans and nutmeg. Jesus. Muw. No, love it. Winner.

Dr. Pomerter also is a fan. of the peachy keene tarts, which we don't really get much of an explanation for, but it's a peach tart. You're not really going to go wrong. Have you already glossed past naughty pumpkin pie?

No, naughty pumpkin pie is coming up. Earl murders me because I'm having an affair pie, which is the one where she smashes blackberries and raspberries into a chocolate crust, which also seems good. I think she's doing wonderful things

with blackberries and raspberries in this movie. I can't have no affair because it's wrong, and I don't want Earl to kill me pie, which is the one with vanilla custard with banana. and then she takes out the banana because

A lot of the pies that we see in this movie, especially in the opening montage and the closing montage, are custard pies of like various pastel colors, which is fine. I have no objection to that. But like, I'm not going to object to a custard pie. But like, I'm into like when she like does really interesting things with the ingredients, right? Joe orders at one point a Spanish dancer pie with potato crust.

I'm very interested. It's his favorite thing about when. The favorite thing about Wednesday is, I want to know more. I would like to know more about what Spanish Dancer Pie with Potato Crest is. I am intrigued. As you mentioned, naughty pumpkin pie, which is the one that she's going to bring to Dr. Pometer, and then her original doctor ends up filling in for him that day. That's got to be like spicy pumpkin pie, right?

I would imagine so. As someone who doesn't like pumpkin pie, I would like that. Maybe there's like a bourbon element to it too. Like red huts? Wait, like red huts like candies? Yes. Oh, interesting. All right.

It's a cinnamon candy. The other one that Joe enthuses upon at length is the strawberry chocolate oasis pie, which does seem to be a dark chocolate and strawberries concoction that just sounds heavenly, honestly. Wait, is this his favorite thing about Wednesdays? Is it this pie? This is the one he, like, waxes on about for a while. So maybe this is his favorite thing about Wednesdays. It's certainly his favorite thing about whenever day he has it. Um, the, the least appealing option, the pregnant, miserable, self-pitying loser pie, which is lumpy oatmeal with fruitcake mashed in and flambade, I'm an oatmeal person, but in general, this is not my vibe. This is not...

Never had oatmeal in a pie. No, I've never had a pie with an oatmeal crust, even though I feel like an oatmeal crust would serve something like a cheesecake pretty well. That would be amazing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Honestly, yeah. Um, and then the one she makes in the kitchen with Nathan Filian, the lonely Chicago pie with the mashed berries in terms. chocolate. Of these, if you were at the Jenna's little pie restaurant, I'm seated at the counter, what's the one you're going to get a slice of? Probably the crushed berries with the chocolate crust or the lonely Chicago pie. That is the lonely Chicago pie.

Oh, you mean the chest meat? No, there's two different ones. Right. There's two ones with the crushed berries. You're thinking, yeah, Earl murders me because I'm having it on a fair pie. Yeah, right, right, right, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I want to see what this strawberry chocolate.

Oasis pie is all about. I want to see what the fuss is about. So I'm ordering that one, I think. Although if I'm there early in the day, I'm not ruling out the quiche with Brie and smoked ham. That all sounds really good. In the real world, what's your pie order? Oh, gosh. See, I'm one of those people who, like, at Thanksgiving, I'm the one who, like, give me a sliver of this, and a sliver of this, and a sliver of this, because I can't decide. I'm in a very pecan pie place in my life, I feel like now. Although, the one thing, in terms of of like you know how you like you get a craving for something and you can't think of anything but like getting that one specific thing which sometimes fucks me up especially when I was living in New York and I would be like I want a slice of lemon meringue pie I don't care about anything else

when I'm in the mood for a slice of lemon meringue pie nothing else will do and so which sucks because like you then you go and you like you order something from the diner or whatever and it's like you go through the motions of like I guess a sandwich I guess a french fries all I want is the pie. And so for some reason, I can't find, I, like, I can't seem to, like, just order a piece of pie because it feels like decadent and extravagant. It's just like, bring me my piece of pie, you know, whatever.

But then it'll show up and they'll be like, they didn't have any lemon meringue. So I brought you, like, you know, a piece of cake or something like that. And it's just like the one thing that I wanted. The only reason why I made this order was for the lemon meringue pie. I didn't get it. That has happened to me more than once. What is your pie of choice? I mean, the only store, like, grocery store bought pie that I can abide is, like, a blackberry pie, and those never happen.

They're a unicorn at this point. They don't exist anymore. I mean, like, berries definitely, I lean towards that direction. Again, I am not a custard person. If I'm going to buy something from a store, this is going to sound so gross. I'm going to make my sister so happy because this is a thing that unites us. Hershey pies.

Oh. Like Hershey branded cream pies? Incredible. Like the one you can get at Burger King? Yes, the one you can get at Burger King. Those are good. The one you can have it your way with. Yep.

Yep. I know what you mean. I love that you're doing the Trixie Mattel hands when you're saying the chocolate pie. This is how much I love Hershey Pie. Sometimes it can be a little bit too much. But like I also got to say, I love a meat pie. Not a, like, not the pre-prepared store-bought where the gravy is, like, gray inside pot pie, but a meat pie, I feel like they're on their way back. They are going to become popularized.

I love, I mean, it's not really pie, but a shepherd's pie. Okay. I get that. My mom used to make us a very. variation on a shepherd's pie, which was essentially a potet chinoa, which was a Chinese pie, which was essentially the same thing, which was ground beef, creamed corn, mashed potatoes, like those were the layers. And it was good. And it seemed disgusting, but it was good. I should also shout out, my mom makes a delicious apple pie. That if I can impress upon her to do a Dutch apple topping rather than like the pie crust topping is maybe my favorite version of that. Apple pies from a store are unilaterally gross, but if someone has baked it in their home, delicious. Makes a big difference. It makes a big difference.

I also, to expand our horizon, a little bit, an empanata, a little hand pie, empanata, is so good. That is of the things that I miss about New York City, not being within delivery distance of empanada mama, which was my favorite empanada's restaurant in Hell's Kitchen is so sad because they made. such good up bananas um all right back to the awards run for this movie wait before we move on from pies though because i do have a game oh did you make a pie game i made a pie game for you chris i made uh so one of the uh fun little quirks of waitress is her naming of the pies i always i find half of them are like reads of different of mostly earl or just like where she's like running down her own life, and they're all very, you know, wordy and would probably look good on like a specials menu at a little pie diner with like, you know, extra quirk or whatever. So I went into the

annals of films, films with notable pie moments or scenes or movies that are in some way notable for pies. And I'm going to have you guessed them by, I gave them all little waitress S-esque, Jenna-esque names. And so I'm going to give you, I'll give you a first crack at it with one name. If you don't get it from that one, you can get a alternate name for the pie. And if you can't get it from that, the third hint is the ingredients of the pie. Okay. So all I need is the film, all right?

Okay. Okay. And I have ten of them, I believe. So this won't take two terrible one. All right. The very first one is best supporting. Mississippi mud pie? The Help.

The Help, exactly. Exactly, right. The AKA was Minnie's number two special pie. That is, of course, Octavia Spencer's character in The Help, making a shit pie for Hilly Holbrook. One for one, Chris. Very good. Fantastic. Your second pie, blueberry surprise pie with lard-ass crust.

Blueberry surprise. Yes. With lard-ass crust. A pot, I don't know. All right. Your second option, the AKA is coming of age, Castle Rock, Camp Fire Story, pie. Oh, okay. That is Stand by me?

Stand by me. Oh, right, right. The blueberry surprise. Surprise, you're getting barfed on. All right. Yeah, stand by me. All right. Your next one is Adolescent Seduction Apple Pie.

This is American Pie. This is American Pie. A.k.a. Wieners don't belong in here, pie. The ingredients being apples and also Jason Biggs' dick. So, yes, American Pie. Very good. All right. Next one. Your pie name is Tuch and Tony's showstopper pie. Tootch and Tony. That's got to be Big Knight. Big Knight. Stanley Tucci and Tony Shalube making the Timpala. What is that called? I think that's what it's called. the big overstepped Italian pasta pie with meatballs and ziti and hard-boiled eggs for some reason

that looks tremendously good. All right. Next one. Fucking a fugitive fruit pie. Fucking a fugitive fruit. Pie. So someone's on the run. They might be gay because they're a fruit. Or there is some type of fruit pie.

I don't I need another All right, the A.k.a. We should probably do this movie on our podcast soon, pie. Oh, okay. So maybe it's somebody who's recently nominated, but they are a fugitive and they are having sexual intercourse. What's the ingredient?

The ingredient is peaches. It's a peach pie. I hate peaches. um oh no that's i almost said call me by your name we couldn't do that there's no fugitives in it um and i don't think they make a peach pie there's peaches but not a peach pie oh i don't know this is labor day this is oh yes they make peach pies that it's a sex scene it's a sex metaphor yes it sure is sure is All right. Next time.

I can't believe I miss that. Pie name is, you better work small town character actress pie. This is too long foo. This is too long food. Thanks for being Julie Newmar. First we bake the pies. Then we eat the pies. Then we go home.

A.k.a. ravishing redberry extravaganza pie. It is, of course, a strawberry pie. It is too Wong Fu. Thanks for everything. Julie Newmire. Very good. All right. Next one is Ballad of Bloody Revenge Pie.

Is this Kill Bill? Is not Kill Bill. The AKA is probably should have cast a Broadway singer pie. Oh, no. Okay. Oh, it's Sweeney Todd. Sweeney Todd. Yes.

I wanted you to ask for the ingredients because I could have done and said priests and lawyers and Royal Marines and politicians. Next one is Nora's sour divorce pot. Nora's sour. Oh, this is. Um, um, um, um, um, um, it's a Nora Ephron movie. It's, it's complicated. It's not it's complicated. Uh, AKA a cheating husband, open-faced cream pie.

Oh, which one has infidel? It's not something's got to give. Oh, Nora Ephron. Oh, God. I was thinking of the wrong. You're thinking of Nancy. I was thinking of Nancy. Nancy.

Um. heartburn. It's heartburn. It is a key lime pie with whipped that Merrill Street shoves in Jack Nicholson's face. Also don't do key lime pies. I like a key lime pie if it's not too tart. I think sometimes they go overboard with the tartness and it just like burns. Sure, sure, sure. All right. Next one. Muted English language debut pie. Okay. Muted English language. language debut. So a chill movie that is someone's first

movie they make in the English language. I'm going to need an A.k.a. A.k.a. muddled and messy, multiple Grammy pie. Muddled and messy multiple Grammy. A movie that won multiple Grammys. What's the ingredient?

Blueberries. Okay. Blueberries. Is it what's eating Gilbert Grape? It is not What's Eating Gilbert Grape. It is a movie

we've done on this podcast. The movie didn't win multiple Grammys, but maybe the star of it did win multiple Grammys. Oh, okay. It's not an unfinished life. It's not also Hallstrom's first.

Is it... Blueberry pie. Blueberry. That one might make it a specific time of day or. Blueberry evening. My blueberry nights. There we go. My blueberry nights.

And finally, the Bard's savory sibling pie. Okay. So, William Shakespeare. had a brother or sister Willamina Shakespeare Savor Savor Savory Sibling

I need an A.k.a. A.k.a. Julie Tammar's Roman revenge pie. Oh, okay. Titus. This is Titus. Yes. That's also a people pie, right? Jessica Lang's sons are the ingredients in the pie. Titus. Very good, Chris. You have done admirably. That was very difficult. And you made me mix up Nancy and Nora. And for that, I should be flogged in the street. All right. What do we want to move on to now that you have done so well at the pot game? Let's just wrap up with some of the rest of the movies. Awards run. It was nominated for Adrian Shelley's screenplay at the Independent Spirit Awards, nominated alongside starting out in the evening, which was also a Sundance movie. the aforementioned Mike White's year

of the dog, the diving bell and the butterfly. Not sure how that qualified as a U.S. production. Uh-huh. And the winner, my beloved Tamara Jenkins, The Savages. It's interesting to track the sort of the 2007 journeys of

some of these movies that like played Sundance together, Waitress, The Savages, starting out in the evening year of the dog, all then move on to the Independent Spirit Awards, some of them move on to the M4Gs, it's it's the they travel like a pack

I feel I remember it reminds me of when I interviewed Emily Gordon and Camille Nanjiani for the Big Sick that year and they talked about sort of traveling in a pack with Jordan Peel and some of the other sort of movies during that award season

and I imagine if it's movies that you started with like Sundance in January and then like come the following February and you're still at the Independent Spirit Awards together like that's got to be really fun and interesting.

It was also among the National Border of Review's top independent films selected among 11 of them. A Mighty Heart, the kind of forgotten Angelina Joe Lee movie that we could do if it was

not a total bummer away from her. Great World of Sound, honey dripper, in the Valley of Ela. Not sure how that is an independent movie, unless like maybe Warner Brothers bought it. I don't know. Once, also starting out in the evening, the namesake, the savages, our waitress.

Oh, wait, it's 10 movies, but they have in the Valley of Avala in here twice. Because it's the winner. Is that the deal? They have... No, I think it's an accident. It's in here. Oh, right. Yeah, an interesting lineup.

Some really good ones in there. I really love Away from Her. I really love Once. I really love The Savages. A Mighty Heart is an interesting movie. That movie had like a brown-faced controversy, right? At the time, it kind, I mean, maybe it got really kind of dispelled because the woman that Angelina Jolie is playing has a really like kind of far-reaching, a diverse background from her family heritage. But I think also she specifically selected Angelina Jolie to play her.

I do remember that. Yes, I think that's right. Yes. That was a movie that had a lot of buzz for Angelina Jolie when it was released in the summer, made basically no money. And that kind of killed that movie's chances for the rest of the year. In the Valley of Ella, by the way, was a Warner Independent. movie. Oh, I've forgotten it was Warner Independent.

I thought it was probably because I saw that movie at like a multiplex. So that's fully me misremembering. But I mean, it's, you know, Charlie Sterron and Tommy Lee Jones and whatnot. It is the follow-up to the director's best picture win. Paul Hagas's Crash follow-up indeed. Yeah. My memory of In the Valley of A-Law is that it is 10 times better than Crash. Oh, it definitely is.

I also remember that Tommy Lee-Jones. nomination was one of the more surprising ones, too. That was one of the ones that, like, drew gasps when they announced the nominees, I'm pretty sure, because he was not, he had been in, like, he had a lot of advance buzz, you know what I mean? Like, that was a lot of, you know, at the beginning of the award season, he was definitely part of that conversation. But I think by the time of the nominations, people had really sort of settled into the idea that, like, it wouldn't be Tommy Lee Jones.

Most people thought it was going to be either Ryan Gosling for Lars and the Real Girl, Girl, Lars of the Real Girl, um, uh, Worked Bake Lady. Um, or Emil Hirsch for Into the Wild. Remember, Into the Wild was like, Into the Wild was expected to do like six nominations.

And it just gets the Howe Holbrook nomination. Like it didn't even get the song, right? Like it was supposed to be Eddie Vedder was going to be a song nominee. And like Into the Wild had like a SAG ensemble nomination. Sean Penn was going to get a Best Director nominee. Like everybody sort of assumed because Sean Penn at that point was a huge Oscar favorite and still was like the next year he would win Best Actor again. So like it's not like the Oscars had like already fallen out of love with Sean Penn, but like for whatever reason, the voters did not cotton to into the wild. A movie that I think is actually pretty good as I remember.

I remember being underwhelmed by it. Like when when those nominations didn't happen, I remember feeling very much like, well, yeah, the movie's not as good as it. Everyone thinks it. I liked it. I thought it was pretty good. But then again, it was a while ago. What else from this list? A couple of these I don't remember at all.

Great World of Sound, I don't remember at all. I feel like I remember that in name only. Honeydrip. But, I mean, National Board of Review will throw in a curveball sometimes in those. Yeah. Did we talk about the other nominees for the M4G's supporting actor alongside Andy Griffith? Let me pull that back up I know that Tom Wilkinson wins

Tom Wilkinson deservedly so wins for Michael Clayton for excellent carrying of baguettes Carrying that big old bag of baguettes And also like pretty incredible performance Philip Bosco for The Savages Which was an excellent performance I remember that having like even more Like Laura Linney ends up getting the actor

nomination from the Savages But like I remember at the beginning of that season A lot of people saw Philip Bosco as a possibility, as that sort of like, again, it's the year after Little Miss Sunshine. So I think people had a rassable old man nominee on the brain. And there were a lot of options this year. Philip Bosco was one of those like longtime character actors who I remember first ever seeing in like three men and a baby. Remember how he was the cop in three men and a baby who was, remember how like three men in a baby for a wild evolves into a heroin smuggling subplot for like a good 20 minutes.

Fucking wild movie. He is Cameron Diaz's dad in my best friend's wedding. Oh, shit. You're right. By the way, I have three or four emails in my pending folder. Please send those for me before you leave. Who's just like, I have pending emails, just send my pending emails. Listen, AOL was crazy.

That was full AOL email that this corporation was relying on back then. This was the year of like old people and nominees, right? Like Andy Griffith, Philip Bosco, Hell Holbrook into the wild, get a nomination for M4G's. And then Homiun Ershadi for The Kite Runner, a movie I definitely saw and remember virtually nothing about it. Could not tell you if I have seen the Kite Runner or not. Massive bestseller that movie was, though. Like, that movie was, like, huge. And an Oscar nominee.

I think it got an original score nomination, but like. Which is fine because, like, I'm kind of like, I would not. relish doing that movie for this podcast just because I remember being very kind of Yeah, it was the type of thing that people would read a book about but not go see depicted on screen because it just made kind of no money. That's a Mark Forster movie, right?

Like that's his follow up to Finding Neverland. Just Finding Neverland. Yep, yep, yep. Indeed, that's why people really were really high on that as a year ahead Oscar contender. It was pretty much everybody's best picture predictions a year ahead of time. A man from Otto's own, Mark Forster. Man Called Otto, like, doing real well financially this season.

A time when, like, nothing's making money besides the blockbusters, like a man called auto is raking it in. It's not necessarily true. Megan made $100 million. Oh, I mean, like, the end of 2020. Like, January is doing pretty good. Megan's making decent money. 80 for Brady is going to make a little bit of a profit, I think.

80 for Brady. just delivers. I mean, I was as cynical as anybody going into that movie, but like that movie gets in the hair and does the work.

It's fun. I resented these women having to shill for even just the name. I don't love, I don't like Tom Brady. I'm constitutionally opposed to that guy,

but even it won me over. The whole thing won me over. I have to say, um, not to spoil too much, but there is a moment early on in that movie where all of a sudden

you get a, look at Jane Fonda's wig closet and I was like well all right I'm in good hands this movie knows what it's doing um all right so we want to move on to the IMDB game let's move on to the IMDB game listeners every week we end our episodes with the IMDB game where we challenge each other with an actor or actress to try to guess the top four titles that IMDB says they are most known for any of those titles are television voice only performances or non-acting credits will mention that up front after two wrong guesses we get the remaining titles release years as a clue.

If that's not enough, it just becomes a free for all of hints. We do love a free for all of hints. That's the IMDB game. All right, Chris, would you like to give first or guest first? I'm going to give first to you. Especially since we just closed with the AARP movie for grownups supporting actor lineup. I have chosen for you, the winner, none other than the great Mr. Tom Wilkinson. Oh, boy.

All right. Love that Tom Wilkinson. Okay. I will say one of these I am positive is a voice performance, though it does not say voice. So we might see. Is it not an animated movie? It's not animated. Interesting.

But I think that this is voice only. I could be wrong. I haven't watched this movie in a while. All right. I'm going to put a pin in that. That's an interesting clue. I'm going to put a pin in saying any more. more because I'm not giving you clues before you even guess a single movie.

No, but that one is necessary because it's... Right, right, right. I had to qualify. Okay, I'm going to guess Michael Clayton. Michael Clayton, correct. I'm not as sure that in the bedroom will show up on there, but it's a possibility. I'm going to guess the best exotic Marigold Hotel. Incorrect.

Damn. Well, I guess I'll just have to talk about that movie for two hours sometime soon. Maybe perhaps at some point in the future. Who knows? Who's to say? Near or far. Who's to say? All right.

Tom Wilkinson, one strike. All right. Tommy Tom. Tom. He's so far down the cast list in Batman begins that like, I don't know, man. I don't know. Putting a pin in that one as well. Big Tom.

Big Tom Wilkinson. I am going to guess in the bedroom, I guess. In the bedroom is correct. Okay. All right. So two out of four. and fine, Batman Begins.

Incorrect. When you watch Batman Begins, it's just like, he shows up as Carmine Falcone. Pizza pasta, chef for your D. And it's just like, what? Yeah, yeah.

It is Bronx by way of Boston by way of Yeah. Yeah. All right, give me my years. Your years are 97 and 2014. The full Monty is 1997. It is correct.

2014. This is the one that's a voice maybe. 2014. This is tough. I feel like it's possible. He shows up for like a shot in this movie, but

I'm trying to get to the nature of what character would be maybe a voice in a non animated movie. I feel like if I say what this character name is, it's going to reach you there very quickly. Does he voice a robot? No.

Well, I mean, maybe it's a robot, but the character name is not robot. The character name is not robot. No, the character name. I'll give you the character name. Fine. The character name is author, as in of a book. So he's maybe like doing the voice over. Oh, I know what this is.

He is in this movie. It's, uh, um, The Grand Budapest Hotel. It is the Grand Budapest Hotel. Yeah, he definitely does show up briefly, yes. Grand Budapest Hotels shows up for, I'm going to be willing to. It's that nesting doll of a thing where like it's about Tom Wilkinson, but it's about Jude Law, but it's about F. Murray Abraham. Remember that whole, yeah. I don't love Grand Budapest Hotel.

It's not for as much as it's like the one that like finally broke Wes Anderson into the Oscars Good Graces. It's not my favorite of his. Like, genuinely, it's the one I, it's not the one I will go back to the least, but it's like, it's not up there. I've maybe re-watched it twice since theaters, and it's really like a half hour after it's over. I couldn't tell you what it's about. Yeah. I also think it's like sometimes, like,

he doesn't always do this, but like that's the movie where I feel like Wes Anderson's sensibility is getting a little mean. Like there is something to where that movie goes in its last hour where it's just like, I don't know. People have made that accusation about others of his, movies, too, but it's usually the ones that are more modern, like people have said about

Royal Tannenbombs, they've said it about Rushmore. And see, like, I think those movies, whatever, like, for whatever reason, stay on the right side of the line for it. And there's something about Grand Budapest that feels a little nasty in a way that I don't love. But anyway. Grand Budapest, I just, I can't find a way in to it. Yeah. French Dispatch, I will say, underrated, as maybe as much as.

I want to rewatch French. as Grand Budapest is to me oversold. I think aside from or maybe since Fantastic Mr. Fox I thought that the final

stretch of that, some of the stretches of that movie are some of the funniest stuff Wes Anderson has done. Fantastic Mr. Fox? Fantastic Mr. Fox is my favorite. But I think French dispatch is some of the funniest. stuff, at least since.

Fantastic, Mr. Fox. I see. I see what to me. Yes, yes. Yeah. Pam Wilkinson's known for all best picture nominees.

Oh, that's interesting. Good for that. And he has more best picture nominees on top of that, I believe. Well, does he? Well, hold on.

Now we're going to, now we're going to go into that filmography. Let's see. I'm willing to take a half a break. Selma. Selma, yes, very good.

Obviously Snowden. That's a picture of any. Selden, Selma, Grand Budapest. Sadly not eternal sunshine. Sadly not. Sadly not duplicity. I guess Selma's the only one that we haven't mentioned. Shakespeare in Love.

Oh, yes. There we go. Shakespeare in Love. That's six. Sense and Sensibility Seven, nice. Yeah, I think that's it. That's pretty good.

Yeah. Seven Best Picture nominees, that's a career, man. That's pretty fantastic. Good for Tom Wilkinson. All right. What a fucking legend. Let's get him an Oscar. Who do you have a-

Yes. All right. So for you, we talked about the Americans and how Carrie Russell's husband, Matthew Reese, won an Emmy for that show. Somebody who won two Emmys for that. show in the guest actress category was Margo Martindale. Oh, DJ Margo Mart.

Never done as an IMDB game. And so I am tasking you would be known for for Margo Martindale. How much TV? Um, none. No TV. Wow. No TV. All films.

Parishatem. Paras Chetam. Same year as waitress. Tremendous movie. She's the standout performance. Should have been an Oscar nominee for supporting actress there. I should watch that again. I don't love omnibus movies.

What would you feel about supporting actress for a part of an omnibus movie where you are the lead of your portion of the omnibus? You are not putting Marco Martindale as a lead for Parisha Tim. But doesn't it seem like a little bit dishonest to have her- No. If you're talking about the nature of the performance. No. Okay. Maybe if, like, it's an omnibus movie where it's three parts.

I could entertain four parts, but, like, there's, like, eight sections of that movie. So you're a, so you're a screen time adherent, I see. I am not, no, it's a very different thing, very different thing. You know what you're doing. I tricked you. I tricked you. All right. Paris through time.

August H. County, because they all are. They all have August O'Sage County. Yes. Two for two. You got the two ones that you were more likely to get. These next two are pretty hard. Okay. If The Hollers is in there, I am going to disband this podcast.

Your very stone face right now is one of them the Hollers. The Hollers. Oh, my God. She's a lead, sort of, mostly. Yeah. The Hollers is not a real movie. Yeah, but there it is. On her known for.

On her known for. Wow. I could get a perfect score for Marble. Perfect score for Margo Martindale, yep. I think that would mean that I would have to grand marshal a Pride parade somewhere. Just right now. Okay, wow, the pressure. She's done so much.

I feel like it would have to be, you're saying that it's hard, which tells me that it's either going to be a small part or a large ensemble. maybe it's something where she has like a key line or it's just got to be like a big movie that like maybe we don't think of for her but she's in it what's a giant ensemble that no it's million dollar baby

it's a very good guess but it is not million dollar baby damn it I wanted that perfect score I know no but that's a good guess but no everybody looks at you in their life everybody looks at me and they laugh um

okay wow okay so a million dollar baby which she has a prominent role and it is a best picture winner is not in the known for it's got to be something big

but what is that it's like no it's got to to be, she's in some franchise, she's in like a Jurassic World movie or some bullshit like that. No, she's in a, is she in a Transformers movie? That's Julie White.

Julie White is in the Transformers movies. Or it's like a Cohen's that she's randomly in. Here's what I will say, without giving you too much of a hint. I think this is hard, but maybe I think that is because I've never seen this movie. Okay.

Which isn't to say... But you think I have. I actually don't know. This is a movie that people have seen. I just haven't. So maybe I'm underestimating either the size of this role or the memorability of this role. Because this is definitely a movie that, like, other people have seen... Talk about.

And do talk about. Yes. Oh man, I think I'm just, I'm going to have to burn something That you haven't seen I feel like it is a franchise movie And it's a dumb franchise movie Because if you haven't seen it And you think I possibly haven't seen it

That's the only thing that equates to me I'm going to just have to burn something off So I'll just say I'll just say Secretariat No not Secretariat All right your year is 2007 The same year we're talking about Okay great

Same year as Paris your time comes out So it's not an Oscar movie Because I feel like you would have seen any of those is it Transformers? It is not. I don't know if she's in a Transformers movie. I feel like Transformers is 07. I forget.

The first Transformers movie is 07, but... Is it like Miami Vice? It's not Miami Vice. That was, I believe, 06. Um... Okay. What else was that summer? Weirdly, she's also in the Savages.

I don't remember. her in that, but interesting. Big 2007. Is it like public enemies? No, I believe that was like 2009. Damn, I'm trying to think of summer stuff.

What genre are we talking about? Comedy. Oh, okay. like parody comedy comedy is it a scary movie no what parodies was she in in 07

this is after is she in Bruno no no no that would be after Borat um What parodies were in 07? This is a movie that gets brought up anytime a movie of this genre comes out and is bad.

And people are like, just go see X comedy movie. It's a better version of this. It's not movie 43. No. No, it's a movie that's like quite a bit better than movie 43. I know that I'm going to feel embarrassed by this because I'm, I feel like I'm I'm reaching for a worse movie than what this is. It's a movie that on its surface seems like it's super dumb and bad,

but everybody I know who has seen this movie is like, oh, this movie is like surprisingly really smart about its genre parody. Right. I should probably see it. I don't know why I haven't seen it, but I would, like, just haven't. What is? an Oscar nominee for supporting actor

from this same decade. From the same decade, okay. It's not like jackass. Those aren't parodies. Also, looping back, Margot-Martindale should maybe have BoJack Horseman on her known for. Yes.

both television and voice performance. Right. It is a parody of a movie that was also an Oscar nominee, also from that same decade. Parody of an Oscar nominee from the 2000s. Like parody of this movie's genre, but specifically a lot of it is this movie. Oh, it's Walk Hard. It's Walk Hard. I have not seen Walk Hard.

I kind of thought you maybe have it, which is why I thought it would be difficult. for you. But yes, she plays Dewey Cox's mother in Walk Hard. Walk the line was not a Best Picture nominee, by the way. No, but it was an Oscar nominee in the acting category. Oh, I thought you said it. Oh, yeah. You said supporting, though. No, I said the actor was a supporting actor nominee from that decade, and it was also a parody of a movie that was an Oscar nominee from that decade. Okay. Okay. If you listen back to the tape, I was correct on all the I was bulletproof in my estimations. All right, Chris started off like a house. a flyer with Margo Martindale. You almost made it and oh so close. All right. That is our episode, though, listeners. If you want this, a little, little, blah. That is our episode, listeners. If you want more this at Oscar Buzz, you can check out the Tumbler at this had oscarbuzz.com. You should also follow our Twitter account at had underscore Oscar Buzz and our Instagram at this had Oscar Buzz. If you follow either our Twitter account or our Instagram account, you will see Chris File being a dang fool about making Tillickum.

memes. You're the one who called My Big Fat Greek Wedding Three, My Big Fat Greek Baby. And I stand by it. And I stand by it. It should have been a good. That should be the title.

Yeah, but they're going to Greece in this one. So it should be my big fat Greek vacation. I would support that. Listen, you're the one who's now besties with me of our dollars on Instagram. So you should reach out and suggest to that title. It's not too late. Chris, where online can the listeners find you in your stuff? You can find me at

Dumb Baby Pie No, at Crispy File, that's F-E-I-L on Twitter Dumb Baby Pie Dumb Baby Pie Weirdest rap name I've ever heard of Actually, that's like an early It's like an early Oth's like white rapper named Dumb Baby Pie symbol

Dumb baby one word one B Yeah, right okay I am on Twitter and letterboxed at Joe Reed reed spelled REID we would like to

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