This Had Oscar Buzz - 234 – Dear Evan Hansen (with Adam Grosswirth!)

Episode Date: March 13, 2023

To settle your post-Oscar hangover, we’re cracking open the Class of 2021 films this week and we’ve invited Muppeturgy co-host Adam Grosswirth to join us. Dear Evan Hansen follows a titular teen battling severe social anxiety, who fabricates a friendship with his bully after he dies by suicide, and faces the consequences of his lie … Continue reading "234 – Dear Evan Hansen (with Adam Grosswirth!)"

Uh-oh, wrong house. No, the right house. No, I didn't get that! We want to talk to Marilyn Hacks. I'm from Canada. I'm from Canada, Water. Doing those letters to yourself with Dr. Sherman. I've been trying to.

Have you ever felt like nobody was there? Um, no one's not your cast. Now we can both pretend we are friends. I'm sorry about my brother. Have you ever felt forgotten in the middle of nowhere? I wish everything was different. I wish I was part of something. I wish that anything I said mattered.

Have you ever felt like you could disappear? Dear Ben Hansen. Yeah. Yeah, that's mine. I'll just take it. Wait, I really, I need that back. You could fall, and no one would hear. Hello and welcome to the This Had Oscar Buzz podcast, the only podcast that would absolutely dump our mean old racist wife at the airport for Judy Dench.

Every week on This Had Oscar Buzz, we'll be talking about a different movie that once upon a time had Lofty Academy Award aspirations, but for some reason or another, it all went wrong. The Oscar hopes died, and we are here to perform the autopsy. I'm your host, Joe Reed. I'm here, as always, with my sentimental orchard. Chris File. Hello, Chris. Not only am I a sentimental orchard. I am a Kickstarter orchard. I am a charity orchard.

Do they describe it as an orange orchard, though? Isn't that not the term for a field? Orchards, I thought, were exclusively apples. Apples, right. But I think they mentioned that it's... They're also quite famously cherry orchards. Well, there are quite a cherry orchard. But like, orange has come in a grove, I was pretty sure. But no, I think they just say orchard. Okay. Also, I just said that. that oranges grow on a vine, they do not. They sure don't. I don't think it's relevant, but I do have a lot of questions about the orchard that are not relevant.

We'll get into it. I want to get into it. This is basically my version of I am a horticulturist. This is me being Virginia Madsen and sideways talking about how, when the orchards peak, um, that tastes a fucking good. Right. Uh, nothing about that orchard made sense on this one time of the thing. I'm glad we're going to be getting into it.

We've got a whole discussion about it. And we are going to, uh, Chris, we're going to be talking about it with a special guest who is here to talk about our breakthrough 2021 movie. We are breaking the seal on the films of 2021. Now that we are, as this episode airs, one day past the Oscars, we can now go back to the year prior and start picking through the detritus of the films of 2021. And to kick it off, as we have promised, we're talking about dear Evan Hansen. And there was only one person who would allow me to talk about dear Evan Hansen on this podcast. In his presence, my dear good friend, co-host of the Muppeturgy

podcast and member services director at the National Alliance for Musical Theater. So he knows what he's talking about. Adam Grossworth, welcome to that's had Oscar buzz. Hi. Hi. So happy to be in the orchard. Yeah. Okay. So about this orchard, it looks like people are having picnics on tables there. Is it a restaurant? Is it a brewery? Did they open an orchard for him and turn it into a brew pub? Like, okay, so it's like a park. Right. Here are my questions. And let me just put my cards on the table up front that I, I think I like this property better than you guys do. Probably, yes. I suspect. I have complicated feelings about it. I do too. I mean, I will definitely nitpick the fuck out of it here. But I also have a lot of questions about this.

movie and seeing things doesn't help like on stage you don't see a lot of things that you are forced to see in a movie so it's an orchard and then like the idea is that it's sort of like gone to seed right they they used to go there when when the kids were little right and it has now gone to seed and so they're raising money to like rehab it and turn it into this memorial park yeah sure brew pub right but then somehow it has to be believable that there is a tree tall enough and sturdy enough for Evan and Connor to have climbed and Evan to have fallen out of and broken his arm. Yes.

And then they raise the money to do the thing. But then, like, who is maintaining the orchard? Did they also found a nonprofit to, like, open and run? It's an incredibly common. A Michelin Star Chef. Right. Like, to open what I, because they talk about how, oh, well, the park is closed, has been closed for a while, but the paths are still open or whatever.

And it's like, so something. That's not how parks work. Right. That's not how parks work. Like, I don't, like, was there, like, a central. like visitor center or like something that is not currently open, but like... It sounds like

a property where people go to drop math. Well, honestly. But the other thing that kind of drives me... And like, this is a problem, I think, in the overall story and the sort of loosey-goosiness of the story that I think got it into more trouble than maybe it

deserved to get into, which is the degree to which Evan is a liar is inconsistently. presented where it's like you have this entire elaborate lie that kind of hinges on you this one magical day in this orchard that you spent with your imaginary or whatever like not imaginary friend but like this guy who wasn't really your friend and that at no point during this whole period of like shining on this deception did you go to visit this orchard to like get a better

sense of this place that you were lying about this entire time and maybe like to better like paper over your, the inconsistencies in your cover story, like, the fact that he doesn't go to the orchard until the very end is, like, very sweet thematically, I suppose. But, like, also, it's like, come on, dude. Like, you know, I don't know. Do your research. Joe, are you saying that this has story problems? Are you saying that at any time, if any character asked a question, there might be, uh, some different things that happen. Yeah. And like, this is, like, I will, we're so far ahead of ourselves already, but like, Oh, this is, welcome to this at Oscar Buzz.

I know. We're so far ahead of ourselves. I'm well aware. It's literally like stepping onto a treadmill. Yeah. I'm so ready. I'm so ready. You know, in that, you know, to defend it a little bit, like in that scene, that first

scene where he has dinner with the Murphys, he is sort of accidentally, I think, like a, like a psychic doing a cold reading, right? Where, you know, Amy Adams is like, oh, the orchard. Oh, 100%. All he says is tree. He's very silly of brown in that way. Yes, yes, yes. Right.

And so, like, they give him a lot to work with, and they want to believe him. So I buy it up to a point. It's more like, why do they believe him? Why does, why does Zoe believe him? Yeah. Because, like, she should not be credulous of any of this. She should be the cynical one. She's presented as the cynical one.

Right. Yeah. Yeah. So, but also just, like, on a practical level of, like, the orchard doesn't actually make any sense, like, in real life. Like, it's not that they would believe him. I buy that. Sure. But it's just in a stage-to-screen adaptation, allow me to compare Deer Evan Hansen to Phantom of the Opera.

Oh, please do. Where, like, on stage, there's actually not very much stuff. Right. Candelobras, as far as the I can see. Yeah. And, like, you know, the stage floor is shiny. It's the same stage. Now, this is Phantom, not Deerfantzantzantz.

The stage floor is shiny. It's the same stage floor that we see the entire time. But you throw a boat and some fog on it and you believe it's a lake. Yes. Right. Like, that's all you need to do. Magic of theater. And then suddenly Joel Schum,

is tasked with creating an actual lake and it's a problem. Sort of the same thing in Dear Evan Hanson, weirdly. Like, Evan's bedroom is a bed on a pallet and nothing else. And there are no other people in school, right? There are those four characters. And you don't have to think about the fact that he has no other friends because there are no other people. Yes.

And it's real weird when there are all these people who he supposedly has known his entire life and none of them speak to him even a little tiny. it. Like, it's just weird. And it's the same with the orchard, where it's like, you don't have to see it, you don't have to think about it. And then you see it, it's like, wait, they're all saplings. Where's the tree they supposedly climbed? Like, why did nobody question that? It's really a problem. There's the, my feelings on this, both the musical and the movie, um, are, exist somewhere in a middle space. I'm definitely lower on the movie than the musical, but even walking out of the musical. I was like very mixed. But I tended to be mixed in a

different way from, like, the, the popular sort of negative critique of this was very much rooted in Evan Hanson's a sociopath. He's a, he's a, you know, he's a destructive liar. He's a manipulator. He's, you know, this very sort of, like, dark view of Evan Hansen. And I'm like, yeah, I couldn't quite get past the sitcominess of the premise, which relies so much on misunderstanding and these very sort of like threes company-esque like you know misdirections and

it's like Evan Hansen is a villain kind of in the same way that like a growing pains plot sometimes puts like Mike Seaver as a villain or like Zach Morris you know that like internet video where like Zach Morris is a is a monster kind of a thing is just like yeah like yes if you like you like you know, but I think part of the problem and the thing that that pushes people to read it that way is the musical in its bones does try to have it both ways, does try to have it where it's this sort of confluence of events that that kind of insulates or at least attempts to insulate the Evan Hanson character from too much blame because otherwise you wouldn't be able to be on his side by the end while also trying to be this like.

the movie really adds some stuff to try to make sure that you do not. Well, but while at the same time being like, this is a movie about how teens are disaffected and, you know, people commit suicide and people feel isolated and alone, and we're going to add in a new song about how people have, you know, how teens have problems that nobody else knows about and all the sort of thing. And by trying to have it both ways at the same time while also having this very sort of like Passack and Paul pop uplift does not, like, it's an untimely. tenable amalgam in a lot of ways, where it's just sort of, it almost ensures that at least a small portion, and it was a larger portion than they wanted, of people would react negatively to the show and to the movie in this way. And I think the movie makes a lot of little decisions that really exacerbates this thing, where it keeps you from getting wrapped up in the good parts of a musical, you know what I mean, where you can like get a,

get a sense of this main character's headspace and sympathize with him even as he's doing objectively bad things, right? But in a way that, like, a lot of people do objectively bad things that they end up regretting, right? I also think, and we'll get into this way later, but like, I also think there is something towards the end where it's like, we maybe don't, aren't as down with the concept of forgiveness in general as a culture as we were maybe 10, 15 years ago. like we do not feel like forgiving people anymore and maybe that's a broader cultural problem but

we can maybe talk about that later. I don't know. Yeah. I saw it again on stage this past spring after I'd seen the movie for the first time and also after all of the discourse because I had seen it very early in its run with a whole different cast and it was really different with and this is not to shade Ben Platt though I will later. Yes, same. But you know, I really liked him on stage, you know, in whatever, 2016. And, um, but seeing, uh, an entire cast, uh, who was doing less. Yeah. They were just, they were just not doing as much. As you almost would have to. There's

probably no way to do more. I'm pretty sure I walked out of it, uh, off Broadway and texted you, Ben Platt's going to win the Tony for most acting. Yeah. Um, and they just were, you know, they were just were not trying. They were, they were, they were not, you know, they were in a show at the end of its run. They were not up for any award. Um, and they were, And they were fully in it. And they were giving lovely performances, but they were just, like, actors doing their jobs with very little pressure, which was actually really nice to watch. Sure.

And also, an Evan who I think was actually, is actually like 27, 28. He's the same age of Ben Platis, but he was like just, he's a very small person. Oh, the casting of the Evan Hansons as it went down the line is like, skinnier and slighter, like, as it goes down the line. And like Andrew Roth Feldman, who was an actual teenager, who, like, they actually cast somebody straight out of high school, who was not who I just saw. tour is Evan Hanson is played by a literal feather. But like to see a more believable teenager is, I think really, and we will definitely talk

about Bluntlet in this movie, but like I think it really makes a difference. It does. I would imagine it does. Part of it, like he is a child. He is a child with some level of an anxiety disorder. And I think that really matters to what he does and why he does it. A child who hasn't really like experienced the kind of sort of sort of so. Like, he's not socially stunted necessarily, but, like, in a way that, like, socially isolated teens at that age, I don't know, they're, they do weird shit.

Well, and I think as a character, like, meeting with that family and, like, they want to believe a certain thing, like, that, that is received by Evan Hansen as a certain type of pressure. Yes. Or, like, a pressure to almost, like, perform. So, like, that's part of what, why he makes. that decision and why he you know falls down that um rabbit trail i don't i i feel like i have a different kind of idea about this show and this movie and like i think it's what the text kind of calls to be and like people do something different and try to like make it this like uplifting thing whereas like i think dear evan hanson is about toxic positivity culture as like an evil force

in the world that make people do bad things. Because, like, as much as, like, Evan, while not grieving, you know, the death of a child, you know, is making these bad decisions, like, the people that want to believe, whether it's his peers, whether it's this family, that want to believe this version of events, you know, they're kind of also chasing this warm, cozy thing that ultimately doesn't serve them. Or, like, in the view of, you know, people who are, like, sharing things online, like, when his speech for, or his song speech, whatever you want to call it, goes viral online, it's like, oh, this is, as much as, like, it's doing good for people, there's an element of this that is, like, evil and bad for people and, like, instilling, like, bad narratives that are not actually helpful for people and, like, get people down. these paths of... But the movie and the show doesn't want to grapple with that. It only grapples with it to a point. And then it kind of throws up its hands and, like,

we'll resolve this on a plot level. But we're probably not going to resolve this on a theme level, because on a theme level, we want to keep, you know, the, keep alive the possibility of a reprise of you will be found by the end, because we really like this song that we wrote. There's, watching it again,

and not to get into, like, generational discourse, because like, whatever, but, like, there is a, there is a read on this that is very, like, Heather's is what happens when Gen X tells this story, and Dear Evan Hansen is what happens when millennials tell this story. And, like, it's, it's not entirely true, but, like, I don't think it's entirely not true. We're like, Heather's, there's. Trueish.

Heather's talks about teen suicide and the way that it sort of gets cynically packaged as a hit song and, you know, messages of, of, you know, hope and whatever in a way that, doesn't ever really grapple with the actual people at the center of it. And like, Dear Evan Hansen covers a lot of the same ground, but they walk up to that edge and where Heather's is like, and now we'll turn it into a story about how, you know, a murderous bad actor can infiltrate this kind of environment and really fuck shit up. And in Dear Evan Hansen, they're like, you know what, maybe we'll just like, you know, keep the good vibes and, you know, resolve the bad vibes as quickly as possible. I mean, maybe, maybe Dear Evan Hansen, they're like, you know, maybe

dear Evan Hansen doesn't complete the thought, you know, because there is a certain element of like, look at this troubled kid, we're going to turn him into a mascot because it makes us feel better about ourselves. Like, and I do think that that is there in

the material, but maybe it's not, you know, the top note. It's the thing that kind of undercuts everything. And that's the thing that I think is actually interesting about it as a show. But I think as it became kind of a phenomenon and was really embraced by young people and like perhaps a young fan base that I think doesn't fully get what this show is doing and they're just kind of taken over by you know the fact that it is about teens it is there's a certain element that is about online life and you know there's these very poppy songs in it that like I even think the songs are kind of used in that way and that like you have these very. like harrowing serious conversations about grief and suicide and mental health.

And then, you know, as the family is kind of being swayed or the public is being swayed by, you know, Evan as a figure or what story he might be telling, you know, you have this angelic voice and these pop songs coming out. And then that's the thing that's making them have these realizations as characters that. Well, this is the Pasek and Paul thing, though, because if you look at something like, and we'll talk about The Greatest Showman, the movie that Adam, you and I did see together. Boy, will we. But, like, what's the big song from The Greatest Showman, right? It's, this is me, which on its own is an empowerment anthem and whatever, say what you will about empowerment anthems. And maybe you, like, you find that entire genre empty and fine. But, like, as an empowerment anthem, it's a successful one.

But in the context of the movie, it's an empowerment anthem on behalf of the people. that P.C. Barnum exploited for his own sort of, like, financial gain. And I think it's similar in Dear Evan Hanson. And, like, sometimes it's more successful than others, whereas a song like For Forever, which I like much better in the stage version than I do, as it is the render here in the movie. Pedestrianly shot in this movie. And spoken song in a way that I really hate, but we'll talk about that too. But, like, I think For Forever is a really beautiful song that ultimately is, you know, on its own. is a story about somebody sort of painting the picture of what it would like to have,

what it would be like to have a close friend or to have a friend and how much they sort of long for that. And it's like really beautiful. And then in the context of Deer Evan Hansen, it's like all of that, but it is also like the fabrication of a lie as you're telling the story, right? He's like spinning this tail. And I think that is more successful than something like you will. be found, which is also a song, I can only listen to you will be found in isolation. I can't listen

to it in context, in the context of the show or the movie, because there the incongruity is too much, where the cynicism that you need to have, where it was like this, this song that is full of really empty platitudes about, you know, uplift and whatever, is then, you know, intercut with these like social media like you know, did you see this in this video? Like, repost. Right. And so, and that the, and it's a half

measure to me, right? It doesn't fully interrogate that the whole way. But the song then becomes, it needs to become a self-critique and it doesn't quite make it there within the context of the movie or in the show. But

outside of the context of that, like Pasoac and Paul can write a goddamn song so I can watch like Cynthia Revo on YouTube like belt the fuck out of that song and it rules but like within the context of this show I can't deal with it at all It needs like an ironic reprise Well like my

Maybe like my thread on this show Is that like you need someone to direct this show That hates the songs maybe For it to like get the that point across Because like I do actually think in context It kind of You maybe need to be like Led through each points of this thought

for it to work in a way that it doesn't work in the movie. But, like, you have this kid who has communication issues and, like, he's going off of the cuff. So what does he say? He says these kind of word, salad,

positivity, thoughts that, like, don't really mean anything on their own, but, like, he's being sincere in the moment as a bad communicator. And then it becomes this whole platitude, when it really is not...

Yeah, platitude. Sorry. Platitude. Ben platitude. Yes. Gotcha. Shut up. Like, repost.

What if I did that the whole episode? Anytime I agree with one of you, I'm going to say, pre-posed. You won't believe what happened next. I, you know, I think part of the issue is that that song, fully understandably, and I should, I'm going to have

like a million disclosures through this episode. Like the lead producer of Deervin Hanson is somebody I know a little bit who like has donated money to the company I work for, but has not in a very long time. So I feel comfortable. So fuck you. So give us money, Stacy. You made a lot of it off of Deervin Hanson. No, but I mean, I think she's brilliant, right? She took this little show and made it into like a huge thing and so good for her. And like, you know, marketing a Broadway musical is not easy. And I think it made a lot of sense to use you will be found as a marketing tagline and a hashtag, but I also think it's really misleading because it does make it sound like the show is this uplifting thing, and then the song did its own thing, and, you know, had all these performances

at, you know, talk shows and Cynthia Revo and whatnot. But yeah, in context, it is a lie, and it is a little bit ironic. It's actually one of the sequences in the movie I like. It's one of the only ones, I think, is well directed, because you do get to see the other people. Yeah. And, like, you know, people start out filming him because he's bombing. Yeah. Which makes sense. Like, that's why other high schoolers would start filming him to make fun of him. And then it turns into something else. And you see, I did write it down, his best friend died.

You won't believe what he did next. Like, you see that fake upworthy headline. Yeah. Which, the first time I was this movie, it was on a plane, and I, like, burst out laughing. And, like, people looked at me. And then watching it this time, I was like, wait, is it supposed to be funny? Like, I thought it was satire, and now I'm not sure. Right.

But I hope it, like, I hope it was supposed to be satire. like that that particular shot of that screen. When you have a shot of Amy Adams staring into a rose gold MacBook and saying like 417,000 views, like, it feels like satire. Right. And I think that that sequence at least is. And, you know, and then also I'm just like, well, he knocked the mic over and he didn't pick it up again and he's mumbling. Nobody can hear him in that auditorium. I'm like, that bugged the shit out of me, but that's just me being a pedant.

Yeah. And it's also, you know, like musicals are really manipulative. So, like, and that's what I love about that. Like, that's, in my world, that's praise. So, like, you can understand that he is lying in this moment and it's kind of icky, but also be moved by the song. And I think that's kind of the point and why I like it. But it's also weird because, like, if it were just a speech, it would never go viral. It only goes viral if it's a song.

Okay. So this is one of my things, too. This is back to, like, you talking about on the show. You just see his bed, but in the movie, you have to have a whole room. In some ways, film is a much more. literal art form and it creates a lot of problems case in point his speech that is a song but is it a speech or a song is it goes viral because it like you just said because it's a song and it it it does kind of break the time continuum time space continuum of your brain in terms of like

we're watching a musical we understand that we're living in a world where people break into song. But then when you're bringing in elements of the real physical world, but you're blending the real world where people don't break into song, and the fake world where people do break into song, it just seems silly. It's like if Mary Sunshine's article about Roxy Hart included the fact that, like, and her lawyer was like puppeteering the entire room, and it was crazy. Right. And like, I almost never have a problem with that. Like, I am here for musicals being. staged very literally and realistically, if it's the right, that, like, right, I mean, you know,

Chicago shouldn't be, 42nd Street shouldn't be. But, like, yeah, this is a musical that should be staged fairly literally, until you get to this and it just breaks it. Because, like, if you turned, you'll be found into just a speech, there's no way. Right. There's no way that it goes viral. Right. And, and I don't think we're meant to believe that it is a song in any context of anything. Like in the prom, actually, which is sort of a better movie, I think. Hot take.

I would agree. It's a better constructed movie, at least. The musical sequences work in that movie. They don't miss. And actually, in that movie, her thing that goes viral is a song. Like, even though it's a musical where the other songs are not songs,

in the world of that movie, she is singing a song. Like, she plays her guitar, and it makes more sense. She literally is a teenager who already has a YouTube channel where she's doing like acoustic covers of, right, you know, pop songs. Share it with the people you love. The world needs to hear this. All right, Chris, before we get too far into the weeds with Evan Hanson and too far into the orchards and whatnot with Evan Hanson, we want to direct our listeners one last time this season to the Vulture Movies Fantasy League.

We have, as you are listening to this, the Oscars are over. We have declared a winner. As we are recording this, we don't know who yet has won the Vulture Movies Fantasy League. But as of last week's update, the Everything Everywhere All at Once Factor has kicked in. And finally, for the first time all season, with one week to go, the leading team now has everything everywhere all at once on their roster. first time all season that the leading team has had everything everywhere all at once on their roster, which I feel like is a, you know, congratulations for people who played the long game, honestly. That was sort of my strategy was to play the long game. I'm ending up on the top

of the vulture staff ranking, which I should really stop bragging about because it's really unseemly, the fact that like, I should not get to brag. Yeah, exactly. Maybe Plutarch Heavensby of this entire endeavor. I shouldn't get to brag at all. But yeah, so. Happy Oscars. On to a new season. Congratulations to the winner.

Enjoy your, well, multiple winners, but enjoy your prizes. We hope this was fun for everybody. We've already done predictions, but I think we can both agree that this person with all of their everything everywhere points is probably. victorious unless by some type of nefarious deadline anchored chances

the All Quiet on the Western front people pulled ahead in the points but looking at the construction of the rosters in everybody who was at the top I think even if All Quiet on the Western front pulls ahead I don't think that will be enough I think in my sort of rudimentary calculations

the only scenario that would constitute a come from behind victory in the final week involves an Elvis insurgency. So that feels like the crucial one, which I don't think is going to happen in Best Picture. But like, we've talked about how Elvis could conceivably end up with like five or six awards with Austin Butler.

This is going to be really funny if listeners are listening to this in a world where Elvis has won best picture. That is true. That is true. In a very unlikely universe that Elvis is won. We who doubt it. Yes. But anyway, yeah, as you're listening to this, you can click over right there to the Vulture Movies Fantasy League and check out who has emerged victorious, see where you ended up, and I think we can all take some lessons

as to how we want to pick our teams maybe next year. It is a game of chance, but it is also a game of you know, limited clairvoyance. And I think if I were to do it again, there were a couple movies that I was sort of lingering on maybe picking after Sun being one of them that I probably would have gone for that would have helped me more than say, oh, what was the one, what was my real, oh,

what was the plane, the Air Fighters movie with a dedication? Sure, devotion. Devotion. Yeah, that was dead air. That was not a, that was not a successful pick on my part. So I could have done

some things differently, too. Listen, you did not draft Corsage. Listen, we all thought, I thought Corsage had a decent shot of showing up some places. So hindsight being 2020. But anyway, this was a really fun. Before we move on to our dear Evan Hanson episode, Joe, tell the listeners where they can go see those results

one last time. All right, thank you, Chris, for being the responsible one of the two of us. Yes, go to moviegame.vulcher.com, and from there you can click on to the landing page where you can see the full and final standings for the Vulture Movies Fantasy League. Thank you all for participating. Thank you, Chris, for talking it through with me all season.

This was very fun. It's a lot of fun. See you next season. All right. Bye. I mean, not by. Don't go away. We're talking about Dear Evan Hanson.

You're waving by through a window. I am. All right. Dear Evan Hanson. Scene. The world needs to hear this. All right, we've gotten so far. down the line and we haven't done the plot description.

We really, really must. We really, really must. Chris, do you have your phone near you? Because mine is across the room. Yes. All right, I'm going to read the boilerplate and then you can prepare the timer for Adam to do our 60 second plot description. But first, I'm going to say we're recovering, we are

recovering, dear Evan Hanson from the... Recovering from Dear Evan Hanson. Yes, exactly. 2021's Dear Evan Hansen directed and, sorry, directed by Stephen Shiboski, the screenplay adaptation was by Stephen Levinson, who also wrote the book for The Stage Show, starring Ben Platt,

we'll get into it, Julianne Moore, Amy Adams, Caitlin Dever, Amanda Stenberg, Nick Dodani, Colton Ryan, Danny Pino. It premiered at the Toronto International Film Festival on September 9th, 2021. The reaction was significant. It opened on September 24th, 2021. Adam, Chris has the timer all ready to go.

If you are ready for 60, second's worth of dear Evan Hansen. I am. All right. Then your 60 second plot description of dear Evan Hansen starts now. Evan Hansen is an anxious teenager, question mark, who starts his senior year of high school after a suicide attempt with a broken arm, and an assignment from his therapist to write a letter to himself every day. He inexplicably prints the letter out in the school library, where bully Connor Murphy steals it, and then sarcastically signs Evan cast. Evan's cast.

Later that day, Connor dies by suicide, and his parents mistake the letter for a suicide note. Setting in motion a chain of misunderstandings, lies, and polo shirts that lead to the Murphy's sort of adopting Evan, and Evan dating their daughter to a, and starting a teenage suicide, don't do it charity, until everyone finds out and gets mad, but there aren't really any consequences because the lie helped people and nobody got hurt, except Connor, I guess, and also Julianne Moore is there, and oh, it's a musical. And Ben Platt, who played dear, he gave everything. Wow, with 15 seconds to spare. The thing is there's not really that much plot. Yeah, it's like you're highlighting that there's not a lot of plot here, which kind of allows us to drive a mack truck through the plot holes.

Well, he gave you your opening, he gave you your opening, Chris, to talk about Rupal, so maybe we talk about Rupal. I mean, I know what podcast I'm coming on. I knew it was going to... Yeah, literally in this film and on the stage, Ben Platt, who does play Deer, gives everything and too much.

I saw Dear Evan Hanson on Broadway and Ben Platt who plays Derek. He gave everything. You could see spit coming out and he was there were tears and he gave everything he had. If Adam is going to take his opportunities

to be a pedant in this episode, I am going to as well with that RuPaul clip because I agree that it's fun and all whatever but like all I do when I watch people make fun of that clip is being like I know what Rue was saying. It's one of those things. watched it again. It was just it's it's the type of mistake that we make all the time because we

talk too fast. We talk too fast and we start a sentence and then we like start another sentence halfway through the first sentence and just like, and so I can imagine myself doing something where I speak so fast and I like, you know, dear Evan Hanson and Ben's side in place. It's funny from Rupol because like we're like, but da-da-da-da-da. Yes, of course it's funny for Rewa. manicured and like pre-scripted in every single movement and emotional manipulation. And there's also a narrative among the people, among the fans of drag race who don't like Rupal, among which there's like a quite significant number of like, and the eye seem to follow them all, who like love the show and love the queens and kind of like hate Roo for being a, you know, fracking,

uh, you know, out of touch, whatever. But like the perception of Rupal is that sort of like clip from the weakest link where she's saying Shaka Khan to the wrong answers, which I'm also a pedant of because the weakest link very clearly tells its contestants to not pass and to say a wrong answer instead of, if they don't know it, just say any wrong answer to move it along. So, like, that's my weakest link. Speaking of Rupal on the weakest link, my, like, favorite reference I've ever seen a Roo Girl do. Did you ever see UK drag races, Tia Coffee, do Rupal on the weakest link? it is stunning. I've heard for four days straight when I saw that.

Amazing. Um, uh, but anyway, so maybe we start from the beginning here and start from the, the musical. So like, I saw this thing at second stage off Broadway.

Adam, I imagine you did the same. I guess. Did you, very late in the run? Yeah. I don't remember where in the run I saw, but I definitely saw it. Chris, did, did you see this on stage ever? No.

You didn't. Okay. No. But you saw, I imagine, like, performances and the Tony performance. Sure, sure, sure. Yeah, yeah. Familiar with the cast. I remember hearing about this thing when it was in D.C., when it was in its first run in Washington, D.C. This thing had, like, buzz from a very early stage if you knew anybody who was sort of, like, plugged into theater or musical theater or anything like that.

So, like, you knew this was coming down the pike. I also weirdly knew, Adam, why would I? have known Passac and Paul's names by that point. I went and looked this up. So they had three shows, like three full shows, two in New York and one at Goodspeed in Connecticut, and they wrote three shows for my beloved smash. Oh, right, three songs. What were their songs for Smash? What were their songs for Smash? Rewrite this story, which is the one that looks a lot like the staging of Dear Van Hansen

with the screens and all the... Whose song is that? Is that a character? It's, it's Jeremy and Cat. Oh, okay. It's Jeremy and Cat It's Jeremy Jordan and Catherine McPhee With uh it's the it's the episode where like you know Derek has to get the big screens Yeah exactly um and um and and it's uh it's one of my favorites actually um but uh you know it's

It's typically lots of moving lights and lots of fog and then like these big screens moving behind them and then like I went and saw Deer and Henson and I was like oh it's hitless great I was gonna say it's a hitless song right so we yeah yeah they're all hitless songs um caught in the storm which is the one that um that Karen sings at the party to Jeremy Jordan's horror. She's like, oh, I found the song of yours. I'm going to sing it in front of all your friends. Yeah. And original. Oh, I remember original, which I hated.

Oh, I hated original so much. But it's sort of an interesting thing about them that, like, and to compliment them, like, they are capable of writing in a lot of different styles. Sure. Yes. Like, I would not have pegged original as one of theirs. It's sort of like the Carly-Rae Jepson-ish. Yeah. If you watch Dear Evan Hansen and, like, La La Land back.

to back, you really kind of have to work to get the connective tissue. Didn't they only do the lyrics for La La Land or do I have that wrong? They did. Well, they worked with Justin Hurwitz, but like, yes. But even still, like, lyrically, like, it's, there's, I don't know. Anyway, the threat that I have for Pacea and Paul, when I first heard of Pesick and Paul, this is the mid-a-Ots, I was in college, and they were like, it felt underground because it was a bootleg that like spread like wildfire of their song cycle edges remember when song cycles

were a thing um and like that music is the same fucking music 15 years later um but like at that time it was like they're going to be the next big thing and it turns out that they were well and so this is this is i went and looked this up because i was like where did they come from and because i'm older than you i didn't know edges um but this is like the i just probably and Anyone who is, like, into musical theater at the same, that's the same age as me at that time, I probably just, like, you know, sent them down a wormhole. Well, right. And people are like, you don't know edges. So, yeah.

So they wrote the show while they were in college at the University of Michigan, which, you know, has a really well-known musical theater program. Oh, I hadn't noticed Adam. Nobody does he know. Yeah, I know. No one we know who also doesn't listen to this podcast. Yes, I know. Drag her. who were we turning to just a friend of ours who doesn't listen to this podcast so it's not going to be as fun because any time it comes up oh they went to Michigan yeah they decided to write their own show after being unhappy with the roles they were assigned in a musical musical theater productions at the school according to Wikipedia and Edges is a song cycle about the trials and tribulations of moving into adulthood and the search for meaning this was in 2005 and then in 2006 2007 they were the youngest recipients of the Jonathan Larson grant which is really prestigious and this is also right around the time of

YouTube becoming a big deal. So, like, their songs just sort of went viral. And then they had this benefit concert of their work in New York with this, like, insane cast of musical theater stars, which is, like, a weird thing, like, that they, they had this sort of insane New York debut. This was when I was a stage manager, I was not yet at the job I have now. And I was, like, not aware of any of, also, again, old. So, like, not aware of any of this in terms of, like, being online in this way. But, yeah, to a certain generation who was, like, watching everything on YouTube, you know, singing these songs of auditions or in cabarets or whatever, like, they were really big. And it's just, like, kind of unusual. They did an adaptation of James and the Giant

Peach in 2010 at Goodspeed in Connecticut, which I saw and loved, and I don't know why it hasn't gone anywhere, which doesn't sound anything like this stuff. It's much more like traditional sort of classic musical theater. There's an album of it with like a bunch of Broadway stars that I think is actually pretty great. Their off our way debut was dogfight. in 2012, which is a much more like, you know, early, odds, early 2010s, sort of like modern musical theater sound, but again, not, like, not this, like, not this poppy kind of thing, based on the movie, the indie movie. And then a Christmas story. Right, a Christmas story. Right. Which has had, like, many productions, like, it's been to

Broadway a couple times. It's obviously it's seasonal. Which, again, I think it's like a much more traditional sound. It does not sound like Dear Evan Hanson. And then DeRaven Hanson happens and like you mentioned the development super fast, right? They had like a workshops, workshops of 2014, 2015, DC in 2015 and then off Broadway in 2016.

Like that's very fast. Musicals take years to develop, years to get funding. Well, and at some point during that sort of like succession of projects that you were mentioning, like at some point they kind of earned this reputation as like the next

big thing. And, like, they, it wasn't, they weren't referred to as Benj, Pasik and Paul. They were referred to as Pasik and Paul in a way that you would refer to, like, candor and abe, in a way that I find, found, like, at the time, especially, a little obnoxious, whereas, like, I understand, like, branding or whatever, but part of me is just like, all right, like, Passac and Paul. Like, all right, Rogers and Hammerstein, like, get over yourselves. But that all kind of, like, then Dear Evan Hansen happens. And it was sort of like this, like, this, like, this, this mythology that had existed, in this sort of, like, image of them in my mind.

It was just like, oh, okay, like, they have a show. Everybody that I know, I remember the reception for anybody I know who saw it in D.C. It was, like, uniformly positive. Like, everybody I had talked to who had seen it in D.C. It was like, this is amazing. I knew Ben Platt because of Pitch Perfect and Ricky and the Flash by that point. Ricky in the Flash, I guess, wasn't until was around that time, was summer 2015. But anyway, pitch perfect.

I was like, oh, I kind of liked him in Pitch Perfect. and it was like, next big thing. Like, you know, hugely impactful performance. Ben Platt and Ricky in the Flash, innocent, period. Oh, I will always defend him in that movie. I'm like Ricky in the Flash, innocent. I will stand up for Pitch Perfect as well. Yeah, well.

Not so much the sequels, but I haven't watched, I haven't gone back. I hated Pitch Perfect 2 so much. I never watched Pitch Perfect 3, and I haven't gone back to watch the first one. No one needed Pitch Perfect 3. Well, nobody needed Pitch Perfect 2 is the other thing. I understand why you make a sequel of a very big hit, movie or whatever. But I haven't gone back. I like all three of them fine, but I will stick up for the first one for sure. Yeah. Like I, you know, I also, Skyler Aston to me is nails on a chalkboard.

So I, there's a limited. No comment. But yes, I did, I did like that movie a lot. But anyway, so it moves through, like you said, pretty quickly. It goes off Broadway in early 2016. And by the end of 2016, it is on Broadway. So, yeah, I mean, I saw it. So again, I saw it off probably, and then I saw it again this in 2022. So, you know, what, eight, six years later? Yeah. But what is math? Where you talk about theater and movies, not math?

Yeah. But, I mean, yeah, I don't think it changed significantly. I mean, certainly the physical production looked the same to me. If there were script changes, they were pretty minor. I'm sure there were some, but I couldn't tell you what they were. And as any sort of, like, big, successful new thing, there is a degree of, backlash at some point that settles in to some degree. But I think the big backlash didn't come until the Tony Awards, which were the following, what, June, I guess.

June 2017, hosted by Kevin Spacey. I was going to say, Kevin Spacey walks out in front of God and Country with a Dear Evan Hansen striped shirt and it all went out. But that was a, looking back at the Tony nominations for that year, I was like, oh, that's a really good year for best musical. And the fact that it beat Come From Away, which was like the big popular favorite. It is a little like the feel good. The feel good movie, like the one that like your parents are coming into town and they're like, we want to see

something and you're like, go see Come From Away. And then Natasha Pierre and the Great Comedy of 1812, which Chris and I saw together. Masterpiece. Tremendous. Devices. Tremendous show. Because it's a love it or hate it. Sure, but it was a big deal. And it was sort of like the artistic choice of those four nominees. And, like, people really like Groundhog Day, but nobody really thought Groundhog Day was going on.

The people that love Groundhog Day will go to fucking bat for Groundhog Day. Yeah. Is that your favorite of the four of them, Adam? Yeah. And, I mean, okay, so here come the disclosures again. Well, so the company I work for, NAMP, we produce a festival of new musicals every year, which come from away within. We are also a member service organization that Ars Nova, the Offerway Theater, that developed Natasha Pierre, is a member of, and we gave them a grant early in its development.

So those are the two shows that I have, like, personal ties to. I've also worked with Chris Ashley, who won the Tony for Best Director that year for Come From Away. But my favorite of the four was Groundhog Day. I loved Groundhog Day. And in the best actor race, my vote would have gone to Andy Carl, who was just, like, so good in Groundhog Day. But I also love a season like this where there's not – I mean, by the end of it, I think Durbin Hansen was pretty clearly – the front-runner. But, like, I love a season that's where there's not a Hamilton, you know, the God bless Hamilton, but like I, you know, where there's, like, not a steamroller. And also,

like, these four shows could not be more different from one another. Like, stylistically, you know. Well, the steamroller this season is the Hello Dolly Revised. Well, yeah, kind of. Yeah, what are the other, the other revivals were cat. Well, it was falsettos, which I saw twice and loved so much. Yeah. Miss Saigon and Sunset Boulevard. you know I just like you know Groundhog Day is based on a movie Natasha Pierre

is based on a portion of war and peace Comfer Way is based on a true story Evan Hanson is completely original they all have original scores right there's no Jude Yeah Brown Hawk Day was never the cool choice simply because of

It's based on a movie but it's a really smart adaptation Like they did some different things It's a completely original score There's no they don't even include I got you babe they did their own thing for that moment too And I just love that, like, there's something for everyone in these choices. And, you know, we don't have to agree on Great Comet or on Groundhog Day because, like, you know, they're so, so different. And that's, I love a season like this.

Yeah. But there's not a clear winner because the voters are going to, you know, have wildly different tastes than do their own thing. Across the board, too. Like, we don't have to talk about the plays because, like, that's too big of a canvas. But, like, a doll's house part two is that year. And Indecent is that year, like, two plays that I really, really liked. Um, uh, I didn't see the revival of Jitney, but like that was, or the revival of the Little Foxes, which is too bad because like I love Laura Linney so much. And I really. Yeah, I mean, that's the actress in a play lineup is. Oh, yeah. My, uh, the five, uh, inside out emotions in my brain, um, those actresses. What, Lori Matt Caf Cape Lanchet, Jennifer Ely, Sally Field and Laura Linney? Like those are, yeah, yeah. I mean, you can't go wrong with any of those. You kind of can. Yeah, exactly. And the other musical, I mean, that whole scene, bandstand, uh, Right, bandstand, Andy Blankinbueh, which got shafted.

It's on film. I'm not sure where it's available, but they did film it. It's somewhat tainted now by Laura Osneth, but, you know. We have yet to invoke Warpaint on this episode. Oh, which I saw. I did see Warpaint. I saw the first act. It's not the strongest show, but like the experience of watching Patty Lepone and Christine Ebersaw on the film show was,

worth it for me, I will say. Yeah, Holiday Inn, which I saw out of town, but, you know, feel good, to chat. Sure. Like, yeah, there, yeah, it was a strong season. It was a strong Tony's year. It's unfortunate that it had to be hosted by Kevin Spacey, and that's, in many ways, what a lot of sort of more casual people remember from. Also, that bizarre David Hyde Pierce performance.

Oh, right, because what? Bett didn't want to perform. Right. Or, I mean, who knows why? That was what I heard, though, right? Because he was nominated or because she didn't want to do it. Yeah. But it was weird.

Yeah. Ben Platt performs waving through a window at that Tony's and then wins the Tony for Best Actor in a musical. Nobody thought that that was going to turn out any other way. But like I said, I think this was the point where people started to turn on this show a little bit. And I think it's one of those. And then when the movie came out, it was a similar thing. where you got these waves of people being like, that's what dear Evan Hansen's about?

Yeah, everybody thinks it's about a gay kid. Well, it probably should be about a gay kid, but I think everything should be about a gay kid. It could be. As a once-closited, anxious hairy teen, like the crush on Zoe is fully believable. Sure, yes. For him in that moment in his life, right?

Yes, yeah. I had a crush on a girl when I was in high school, and the emotions are weird. A lot of gay actors have played Evan Hansen at this point. So I, you know, Yeah, they all got married to each other. And, yeah. They live in a commune.

Exactly. They're in a polycule all together and they're all very happy. We're wearing nothing but armcasts. Right, arm casts and blue and white stripedos. Yeah, it's a whole thing. Anyway, oh, so the best actor in a musical category, which, again, Adam, you mentioned you would have gone for Ian Carl. Yeah, I think there was some conversation for Andy Carlin.

I would have probably voted for Christian Borel for falsettos because I thought he was tremendous in that. But people really loved David Hart-Pierce and Hello Dolly and Josh Grobin and Natasha Pierre. But I think there was no illusion anywhere that Ben Platt wasn't going to win because also he was the one who broke through into the mainstream. He was the one who like goes on the Today Show and like Hoda and Kathy Lee like fucking freak out for him. that's the thing. I mean, he campaigned. Like, he really, there was, I think a little bit, I don't, I'm not, I didn't look up how many nominations Andy's had, but like, Andy Carl's been around for a long time. Yeah. Doing the work. So I think the other narrative was like, oh, you know, it's Ben's first. He'll be back. You know, let's give it to Andy. And to be clear, I'm not a voter. I don't, you know, this is just like what I hear. But Ben Platt was definitely, definitely out there. There was a huge profile. follow of him in The Times, and, you know, I saw him at events. Like, he was, he was doing the thing, and I don't know that Andy Carverly was. We probably shouldn't get too far down the road before we mention the fact that Ben Platt's father is Mark Platt, one of the sort of...

Mark Platt is part of the reason why I think the, like, villainization of this show began in terms of, like, the way that it has nothing to do with the content that people, you know, dislike this show. Because to talk about Mark Platt, you also have to talk about... La La Land losing best picture. Well, here's the thing, though. Which happens at this time, and, like, he's kind of, he was out there as kind of the... The percentage of the percentage of the percentage of people who know that fact is so small, but it, like, it then radiates outward where, like, the people who are most sort of in the

know about the fact that Ben Platt's father is a big, highly powered Broadway and Hollywood producer, who also was a producer on La La Land, who also was on stage during the... He wasn't the bad actor. of that awards acceptance. He wasn't the one guy who, like, heard that it was the wrong movie that got announced and still gave a speech anyway. That wasn't Mark Platt.

So, like, credit was the one that Jordan Horowitz snatches the thing out of his hand. No, it's the guy who comes after Mark Platt. Mark Platt gives his speech, turns around, and someone tells him it's the wrong movie. And the next guy who goes up heard that gives his whole little speech,

and then at the end goes, we didn't win, by the way. And I was like, that's the asshole in this whole group. And then Jordan Horowitz comes up and like, but anyway, the people who know that much about Mark Platt are such a small percentage of people. But their sort of snideness then radiates outward and sort of like fuels. It's the, it's the molten hot core of the earth to reference a Hillary Swank movie that radiates outward to this general sense of backlash. Hillary Swank goes on a journey to Mark Platt's house. Well, and I think, like,

Yeah. And, like, Mark Platt was not a producer on the, on the play. He is a producer on the movie, yeah. Yeah. But, like, I actually went digging for that. I was like, I mean, he may have, he may have invested, but his name is nowhere. I did go looking. Yeah.

He, I also think, like, Ben Platt, because part of the backlash, rightly, to, you know, there's sort of being no consequences for the character of Evan Hanson is, you know, oh, it's a white dude. Sure. Yes. Yes. his actions. And, like, yes, on stage, subsequent actors have not been white, but they are still dudes. And I think there is still, you know, inherent in the text a whiteness to this character who plays him. And I think, even if you don't know all the details about who Ben Platt is, there is something to his public persona that reads as very privileged and a little bit annoying. And, you know, he was on the politician. He's very good on the politician, I think, but he is playing that character. He's actually playing a sociopath and the politician, who is extremely wealthy. And is he going to sign on that, right?

We can't talk too much about the politician because I'll talk about it for two hours. It's one of the most fascinating bad shows ever. I could talk about it forever. Absolutely. Nobody does, by the way. Nobody talks about it because nobody really watched it. People watch the premiere and then we're like, nope. Oh, I watched every single episode.

I mean, you know what I watched during quarantine that nobody I know watched is his Netflix concert special. And then I bought his album on iTunes because I actually really liked it. But, like, even on that, like, their – his persona is a little off-putting, even while I was like, I like this song. Half of the second season of the politician takes place at Marie's Crisis. Like, that's the general. Like, that's how weird it fucking gets. It's so – anyway, Adam continues.

But, yeah. So, like, I mean, you don't have to know everything about him to have seen him in the wild and be like, this guy. And then you see him as Evan Hansen, especially in the movie, and we should get into it. And be like, okay, that guy, even though in the movie, he's poor. Like, it's text that he says it out loud, we're poor. There's a whole thing about the scholarship. He's also, like, like, legitimately diagnosably dealing with mental and emotional problems. Like, there's, there's privilege is a, is an apt distinction, but also, like, deserves to be talked about in its full sort of context.

For sure. But, like, you put Ben Platt in 2021, as opposed to unknown Ben Platt in 2016. Yes. And it matters. I mean, this might just be being a city kid, but, like, I don't know, his. bedroom in that movie is larger than my bedroom now. Yeah. I was like, I don't want to be poverty porn either. Right. And like, certainly the,

the Murphy's house. Is there any specificity about where this movie takes place? Or is it just like American City? None. The other thing, I mean, this is largely irrelevant. What are the fuck are orchards? It's got to be California. I was going to say, like, Northern California. Also, I thought they shot it in Georgia, but at the end, the New York State film thing came up. Oh, interesting. I don't know. There are orchards in New York State, though. No, of course. It was more just like where did they film it?

Yeah. There's a moment when, when Connor's mom, she gives him the tie, and she talks about how they bought it for him for Bar Mitzvah season because of all the parties who's going to have to go to and dress up for. And I was like, in what world? Like, this is the least Jewish movie. I guess I realize Ben Platt is the lead. But like Evan and Heidi Hansen and Connor Murphy.

Sure. And, like, it doesn't matter the Ben Plata, isn't it? There's not a Jew to be found on the screen. I'm sorry. That's a big high school that he goes to. Like, I would imagine in the laws of large numbers or whatever. Like, I sort of, I tell this story a lot, and it sounds bizarre, but, like, it's, like, I didn't really meet Jewish people until I moved to New York City. Like, I grew up in a sort of small, which went to a very small high school and in a very Catholic, in a very Catholic city in a very Catholic area of a very Catholic city.

So I genuinely, like, never went to Barman. was never went to, like, anything like that as a kid. Whereas I, every Saturday of seventh grade was, in fact. Sure, sure, exactly. But so, but, yeah, so the, the casting of this movie, they cast, Ben Platt is the only member of the theatrical cast to get cast in the movie. He is 27 years old when he makes this movie. And, like, as somebody who grew up on Beverly Hills 902 and O, I cannot with a good conscience,

like, bag on it too. much for the for the for the for the flat fact of they cast a 27 year old to play high schooler because like that those are the shows that I watched all growing up yet at that same time the movie doesn't seem to work all that hard to make him look teenage like the movie does or when it does it backfires I think it works too hard to make him look maybe that's it maybe that's it like Joe they shaved his arms that I didn't notice oh okay let's get into it Sorry, Chris, you have to know they say. Well, I mean, okay, the impetus for the movie, like, Chibosky said this in interviews was to, like, get this performance on film while they still could, scare quotes, basically. And it's like, you're already too late. You're already too late. But his dad is telling you you have to, so. Right.

Yeah. It's, I don't know, it goes back to that thing of film can sometimes be a much more literal. art form and like he just looks it's not just the way that he looks too old which like really plays into when you're watching it on film

how how much blame you want to shift onto this character because it seems like it makes it just like at no fault of the actor it's merely his casting makes him seem more deceptive because he looks like an adult playing a 14 year old and yeah and yeah

in a way that, like, he's next to Caitlin Dever, who feels like she's been playing 14 years old for, like, 15 years, right? And has incredibly done so. She's still conceivable 16-year-old. But here's the other thing. I mean, Colton Ryan, I looked all of this up. Colton Ryan is 25. Yes. Nick Dodani is 27. I mean, is, I don't know their, you know, actual birthdays, but somewhere in that range when they're filming. In that locker room scene, right, where he is, you know, which is, like, is meant to highlight how awkward he feels and, and, like, they're all athletes, right? But it's kids with, like, full pecks and ass. Right. He's surrounded. by shirtless men, including Isaac Powell, who is a Tony-nominated Broadway actor. Who does Isaac Powell play in this? That's a name that I know, but I can't place his face. He's one of the guys in the locker room, and he has a line and you'll be found. He's one of the, you have to see this guys, and you will be found. And that's it. That's all he's.

Yeah, so he's around. But he's in the locker room, he's the one who, like, when Evan is, like, up center by the locker, he's the one who, like, comes up right behind him and Evan flinches. Gotcha. And he's, like, 26, 27, and a literal Calvin Klein underwear model in real life. Like,

none of these people look like teenagers at all. Yeah, like even muscular teens don't look like that. But like Colton Ryan, it works because he's supposed to be older than Evan at least, and he's supposed to be... They're both seniors. A mean, you know, like a bully or whatever. But only Platt

is pancakeed in makeup and whatever they do his hair. And once again, I will say, they shaved his arms. Then Platt is a hairy, hairy man. As a fellow hairy, hairy man, I can tell you, I had hair on my arms at age 16. Like, this not a thing that happened.

It doesn't sprout when you turn 30. He looks like when, you know, SNL skits, they're playing teenagers. It looks like that. But they didn't do it to any of the other actors. So it also, like, I don't know if it was his choice or what, but like, it also makes him stand out. Like, not just that he looks weird, but no one else does.

And the opening shot of the movie, or shots of the movie are the series of tight close-ups on his face and on his hands typing. And all I could see was, like, I can see the makeup. up, I can see that they waxed you. It just is so weird, and I felt bad for him, I guess unless it was his choice, but like he's unsupported on every level in this movie. And, again, I like him. I don't know him as a person.

He seems very annoying. But, like, as a performer, I like him a lot. Yeah. And I just felt like, what a, like, way to hang your star out to dry from moment one. The age thing, the age thing was the thing that got latched onto from the second that the trailer came out. That was when sort of the trailer being released really was the watershed moment, even more so than the TIF premiere, because like that's when everybody who hadn't seen the show went in Wikipedia at the plot, and that's when everybody started making jokes about how much older he looked. But the thing, that to me was like a noticeable issue.

The problem for me with the Ben Platt performance is performance style, which, like even when I saw the show, when I saw the show off Broadway, and my seats weren't particularly close. it's like second stage is not a very big room but like I was halfway back in the room at least so it's not like I was like up close and personal and getting like a Jonathan Groff shower or anything like that it's I was back but like even from that

far distance I'm one of my like everybody's like this performance one of the greatest performance ever and I'm like yeah I'm like he's a little big for my taste and like he's just like the performance on stage is so wrenching

and excruciating to look at. He's so, he wells up these, like, big emotions, and he's slobbers crying and, and is so demonstrative in these, like, very unbearable teenage emotions or whatever. And the adage, right, is that, like, you can go bigger, you have to go bigger on the stage because you're playing to the back row. That's the whole reason that that is a statement. Even in that context, I was like,

that back row could have been a lot farther back, and I still would have gotten what he was going for. So of all the people to then be like, well, we have to cast this guy in the movie version, that particular performance in this particular story, I'm like, this is going to be a disaster because he's already bordering on too much on stage for me. In film, this is going to be way too much, and it is.

It's just that watching this performance up close is deeply uncomfortable and not in the way that I think the movie wants it to be uncomfortable. And one of the solutions, solutions and scare quotes that Chabaski sort of chooses to use is we are going to turn a lot of these songs into these sort of half-spoken, half-sung things that will then integrate into the drama of the movie. and I think all of those seem very annoying to me. Yeah, I thought some of that worked, but then you get to words fail, which he did exactly like he did on stage, which is... That's the one on stage where he just, like, loses his fucking shit and, like... Yeah, and like... And now it's memed throughout the internet, all of these, like, face contortions he does. And he's being shot from below, like, all these weird angles, and he's running through the forest.

And also, again, having seen other actors do that now, I'm like, you don't have to do that. Yeah. You can do it smaller. In a Broadway theater, you can do it smaller. Yes. Like, this is also, like, a great case for lip syncing, right? Like, sing it like you want to in the studio and then lip sync it so that you don't have to do that.

Like, if that's your vocal thing, right, lip sync it so that you can do different things with your face on camera. I don't know. I just, like, that was the number where I just was like, oh, this looks terrible. And I did, it's not my favorite number on stage. I think the second half of the show. I'm a lot more underwhelmed by, like, even the Rachel Bay Jones number on stage, the one she essentially wins the Tony for playing Evan's mom. Most people I know flipped shit for that and, like, really loved it.

And for me, it was, again, a little underwhelming as a sort of 11 o'clock number or whatever. But, like, even, like, the translation to the movie, and, like, there is fewer, fewer. a bigger Julian Moore fans than I am. But, like, they had to turn that song into a half-spoken, half-sung, you know, much smaller, much more intimate.

She doesn't get off the damn sofa. She doesn't get off the sofa. They just sit. They ask her to belt one note and she can't. And it's like, I can't blame her for that because, like, she's not a singer. But, like, but again, it's a movie. She also said in interviews, like, she wanted

to do this movie, A, because she felt. connected to the material after seeing it on the stage, you know, you have to respect that. But also, she wanted an actual new challenge. And it's like, especially someone in her career, like, you do kind of have to applaud them trying to take on a challenge like that. But even so, she's not a singer. Right. And she's also, I mean, she's also, her age also strains credulity. And I feel like, right, because they cast a 27-year-old Evan, then they had to cast an older.

Sure, sure, sure. Heidi. Like, I don't know. And I think she's great. Like I, you know, and I like the performance. I just, it's weird. The best scene in the movie is her with the other family when they're saying they're going to pay for Evans College. And she has to say, no, that's the best scene in the movie.

And it's the best scene in the movie because of her. I mean, yes, I think that's such a cliched scene that, like, it really kept me at arm's length. We've seen that scene in so many things, the, you know, the scene where the, you know, the person of less means. gets offended at the people of more means trying to help them. And, like, you can see it coming so far down the road, even if you haven't seen the show before, that it's just like, all right, can we just get to the part where we're, like, pass this and whatever. But, like, it is Julianne Moore and Amy Adams, you know, in a scene together.

Maybe that's just me as a total esler being, like, the best scene in the movie is the one scene with Amy Adams and Julianne moored it together. But also, like, I do feel a little bit like I was coming into this prepared to be like, okay, it's not the biggest fiasco in the world. Like, everybody made this movie out to be. But then again, I'm like, the best scene in the movie is one of the most cliche scenes of the movie. My favorite scene, or sorry.

No, no, you go. Okay. My favorite scene, and maybe it doesn't even work in the context of the whole show. But, like, the one I actually, like, perked up with was the Colton Ryan number was sincerely me, which I remember liking. In context of it, yes, and we'll talk about it in a second. But on stage, I really liked Mike Feist a lot. But that number was like, yeah, it was a good number.

And I generally mostly liked him. I also love the fact that, like, he doesn't come back and do the movie. And instead, he does West Side Story and, like, blows the doors off of that movie and should have been nominated for an Oscar. And then has subsequently been cast in, like, a bunch of different cool things that are coming out soon. So, like, good for Mike Feist. But I was, I think I mostly liked the Sincerely Me number because I saw Colton Ryan in that one episode of poker face this year, but that's the only other thing I'd ever really seen him in. He's, like, I was really excited by how good he is in that number.

And I'm like, oh, I want to see, like, 20 more things that he does at this point. He's good. And there's more imaginary Connor in the, in the play. And, like, I was, I was sort of sad to lose that. Yeah, I was sort of hoping that we get at least one more. Tone-wise, it doesn't- The end of the movie, though. That's true.

But there's more, like, he, I think it also, like, it helps, again, with, like, Evan motivation to sort of see him, like, imagining, having these imaginary conversations with Connor and, you know, feeling guilty, right? I don't know. I find those scenes helpful dramaturgically. Tone-wise, I don't know if that scene fits in with the rest of the scenes in the movie, but, like, as its own isolated thing, I will watch that, like, several more times probably on YouTube and whatnot. Yeah. Just the parents thing is a good segue into one of my problems, which is, I think it's a terrible adaptation. Yeah.

Which is also really interesting because Stephen Levinson wrote Tick, Tick Boom, which I think is phenomenal. Which is a really good adaptation, yes. But also, like, he's not adapting his own script, and it's a different director. And, you know, who knows who's responsible for what. Yeah. But on stage, there's a different opening number. Waving Through a Windows is the second number.

Right. And the opening on stage is largely about the parents, right, trying to deal with having these fucked up children. And I don't know if they cut it because Amy Adams and Julian Moore couldn't sing it or didn't want to say it or if they just wanted to get things going faster. But you actually meet them earlier and learn a lot more about them and about Connor and about Zoe's relationship to Connor. All of that is established very quickly. And then there's a scene at school that gets you into waving through a window, which is actually motivated by, like, Evan has awkward interactions with both Zoe and Alana, who you, actually meet earlier. And Jared makes fun of his phone. Like, there's a bunch of stuff

about, it also sort of establishes him being poor and all of that. Is Jared gay in the stage version? He's not. I couldn't remember. Okay. I didn't think that's new. Do they think they changed it to make sincerely me seem less homophobic when Jared is making fun of him for? I 100% think that that's what happened. And so, yeah, and also like even just like, you know, like Alana and Zoe like talk to him is also like more realistic, even though there's no other people who we meet at the school. That's like, oh yeah, like people at least say hi in the hall. because, like, they're not monsters. And then that gets you into whipping through a window.

And I don't know, I just like, it sets everything up so much better. And then, like, during Requiem is, like, one of my favorite songs in the show. But in the movie, I was like, I don't know who these people are. Like, why do I care about... I did not care for that scene in the movie. I will say that. I think it's the only musical number that's filmed well in the movie. I agree with you.

I have a lot of directorial issues with this movie, but we don't have to go there. Yeah. No, I mean, I have a ton. Yeah. But there's also, I think this is a problem. that happens with movie adaptations of stage music a lot where they cut something and then you have to like shuffle

the book scenes around and as a result you end up with like 25 minutes without a song and that's what happens here apart from also losing all this exposition about about who the parents are cut from a lot of this and I think that's really kind of unfair to Amy Adams

Julian Moore like why cast them if you're going to cut half I don't think Amy Adams is very good in this movie but I also feel like there's a lot of the problem is with the way the character is is rendered in the script and cut down as you mentioned adam but like i don't i don't like watching her in this movie every scene every scene that she's in i find very she's forced to play an alien like none of this family's so i can't i don't like it it just makes me it made me feel kind of like a crazy person it's like when does the funeral happen like nothing with this family kind of makes any sense well he's he was, he's out, he's out of school. They, they have this moment where he's like, Connor hasn't been in school for three days. And it's like, it's been three days and this rumor hasn't gotten around that this kid killed himself three days ago. Like,

what's, what's, what's going on? Like, when a sister, presumably has friends in school. Right. Right. Right. Yeah. I mean, that's one of the other, like, weirdo things about, like, we're seeing the other people is the worst possible thing. Because, like, then all of a sudden everyone gets a text or something. Yes. And, like, at the end where they apparently all have notifications on their phones for the comic project. Oh, the scene where they're in the supermarket and the one parent, like, Amy Adams looks over at the one parent who, like,

checks her phone, and I'm like, I can get where, like, teenagers are glued to their phones and getting, like, every little update. But, like, this, like, middle-aged lady in the checkout line at the supermarket isn't getting, like, text blast from someone being, like, the Murphy's suicide note comes out. Like, they're all at the party.

They're all at the party, and they all get that text or whatever about the suicide letter being posted or the Dearborn Hansen letter being posted. It's like, what, who is that, who is notifying them? Like, why are they all have alerts on? Why they all have their sound on? Oh, also, like, the thing that, again, I think part of this movie's problem is that exists, it exists in this sort of, like, half measure land where, like, the

Amanda Lestunberg character, what's her name? Alana. Alana, posts the note for very sort of thinly plausible reasons. And then this, like, by the, like, by the. time Evan calls her and it's like, you have to take it down. She's like, oh, I already have. And it's like, at least like exist in the moment of like why you posted it at the beginning. Like there's, it's. Yeah, the timeline is very unclear. And it's just so plot. Like, it's for the reasons of plot, this letter had to get out there. And we're going to do it in the most painless

way possible where you can still like this sick character the same way you did a second ago. Just there's a lot of stuff like that. There's a lot of sort of shortcuts that that that don't work for me. Can we talk about Stephen Chbosky for a second, though? Please. Yeah. Who I don't agree. I don't like the way he directs this either.

I really, really did like perks of being a wallflower as a movie. And I think that's, and I think that's a little bit instructive of what works in non-musicals and doesn't work in musicals maybe, whereas the, in a musical on stage, The levels of sincerity that are at play, for as much as I think Dear Evan Hanson should be probably a little bit less sincere than it is, it is a very largely sincere movie. Or a largely sincere show and also... I would say overly sincere movie. But I think you can...

But I think you can be that way on stage, and you can probably get away with a lot of that on stage for a variety of different reasons, one of which is the fact that, like, you can get a room full of people sort of wrapped up in the music and dancing and showmanship of it all. And then when you put a camera so close to somebody's face in a movie, that level of sincerity is unnerving and distancing. Like, it's doing the opposite. Particularly when it's that kind of performance. And I think when something like Perks of Being a Wallflower, which is an incredibly sincere

movie, to a point where I think a lot of people don't like it because it is almost like nails on a chalkboard since here, I don't agree. It hits me differently. But like, I think in that movie, he replaces a lot of like what you, the style that you would get in a musical in the form of songs and whatnot, replaces that with this sort of, there's a moodiness to perks of being a wildflower that fits this very sort of like teenage moment where everything is the most important thing that ever happened. And the movie sort of replicates that emotion while sort of giving the audience

enough of knowledge that like, you know, like this is, you know, this was a moment. This is a moment in these people's lives that we can maybe like step back from a little bit and look at. And there's no escape from that in Dear Evan Hanson, the movie. And it's, and you're sort of locked in the room with this. Right. With this level of sincerity. In person being a wallflower, people, all of the characters behave in that, the way people behave.

Yeah. I think almost at no moment in this movie, do people behave the way that real people behave? Yeah. I just, it's interesting that Shbosky is also, he wrote the script for rent, right? He wrote the adaptation for the film. Did he? I thought so, or maybe he did a draft. Oh, because one of my key complaints about this matches my, one of my key complaints

about rent. I mean, rent is a lot more fun and, like, we will forgive the things about rent that don't work. Will we? I will. On this podcast. Yeah. Oh, I'm aware. I listen to that episode. He did, actually. He is the credited screenwriter for the rent music in the movie. And, and Beauty and the Beast, the live action

movie. We will not stump the movie. I will say, the problem with the Beauty and the Beast movie isn't necessarily a script. The script is essentially like a Xeroxing of the movie. Right. The problem with the beauty The Beast movie musical is that it is designed to be a cash cow and not a good movie. The thing about Chbosky also being in rent is there's a key complaint, I think, of both of those movies and that they're directed by people who don't know how music works on screen.

It's even worse in this movie, I think. I mean, Chbosky is just not someone who should be directing a musical. I don't think he understands the rhythms, the way, like, you capture a musical sequence in the movie. Like I said, the Requiem number is the only one that I really think is shot well in this movie in a way that I was like, I felt maybe as most connected to it. And it's like it's doing a lot of the obvious things, but, like, it feels like it's doing what it should be doing and moving to the rhythm of the music in a way and, like, telling the story. You get from the A to the B that you're supposed to by the beginning and end of the song, whereas it almost makes me wonder, and maybe this is cynical brain or mean brain of me, of a lot of the Ben Platt numbers, if they're shot in the way that they're shot because there was some type of, shall we say, producer interference, where it's just like you think that you're just putting a spotlight on a performer by capturing only what that performer is doing. But, like, there's no visual language. There's no visual storytelling happening in any of those numbers.

And it just sucks. Like, I would almost blame, I feel less blame towards Ben Platt doing what the same performance he did on the stage, that I feel more blame for Chbosky for not capturing it well. You know, I don't think it's all the actor's fault. There's one one that really stood out to me, and it's fun. it's funny that the rent connection is there. Also, Michael Greif directed both Rent and Dear Evan Hanson on stage. Right. And not, he's never really directed a movie, and I know they're very different skills.

But the end of, you'll be found is the act one finale on stage. And it ends with a big, booming, crashing button. That's also the moment when Zoe kisses Evan, and they moved it later here. And it's like sort of bad. right like that's also like one at you in the back i hate the way it's staged in the musical at least in the off-broadway version with the like the texts showing up on a screen on the stage yeah all of the all those projections are it's so cringy to me but like the i thought the way that it was in the movie is cringy where it's just like it becomes this overbearing cascade of

online images i i will well okay i so i have i have a copy of the script that i received for free. And I'm going to read you the stage direction for that moment. But let me finish my point first. So, you know, part of the backlash is like, oh, and he ends up, you know, he gaslights this girl. He ends up dating her. And yes, it's, it's bad. I'm not defending that at all. But I think it's really important that in that moment on stage, she kisses him first. And musically, it's not good, right? Like the music tells you this is scary and kind of bad. And in the movie, there's no button on the song. The song just peters out. Because God forbid, we remind anybody this is based on a stage production and there's a blackout and an intermission

here. Right. And Rent does the same thing. Rent cut all the buttons off the songs and all those actors who had done it on stage were like left standing there at the end of every song going, eh? Yeah. Now what do we do? Yeah. And it's so awkward. And it's like it's okay to like end a song and let people clap, even if it's like not a live audience. Right. But yeah, Anyway. Wait, so how does it, how does it? I have to find it.

I didn't actually mark the way. Wow. So you're saying they should have split dear Evan Hanson into two movies because they don't know how they can follow up that. That's exactly what I'm saying. What do you do? You have to split it into two movies. Not because we think we can make more money by doing that, but because it just doesn't work. It's simply, you just have to do it.

If this were a video podcast, there would be a banner along the bottom being like wicked commentary, wicked commentary. Commentary, Wicked comment. Oh, an editorial comment on the movie Wicked coming in... An editorial comment on the capitalistic, for no other reason, other than making money, splitting of Wicked into two movies. Okay, you ready? Yes. The space slowly fills with people's posts, a virtual community. The voices overlap, and each of the individual threads becomes part of the larger stream of messages, and one by one, they fuse with the stream until there is no separation between them. A dreamlike feel. like we have fallen into some kind of collective hallucination. Maybe this is what life after death feels like, or maybe what it would feel like to fall into the internet. Oh, God.

Did Aaron Sorkin write this? No, because Aaron Sorkin would have seen the internet as a nightmare, but yes. That's like halfway through you would be found. I think that part of the point is that the internet is a nightmare. That's the thing. Part of the point is like it can be as harmful as helpful, but I think the context of the plot wants it to,

wants it to be, it's more harmful than it is. But the way it's filmed in this movie, like there's nothing about that scene that seems sinister, even though if you look at it with any kind of context as somebody who has experienced the internet, you look at that and you're like, oh, this is a dark turn of events. And like, the way that like, you know what,

pit in your stomach that happens when all of a sudden something you've tweeted starts getting responded to by people you don't know because somebody clearly like sent this tweet of yours to somebody else and that pit in your stomach where it's like oh no like I don't want to I don't want to be a part of whatever this is now being a part of and like this app is about

to be unusable for two days that's the thing and it's still like you watch that scene and like you the audience member are bringing to that if you have any experience with the internet in that way being like oh no like I don't want anything with mine to go viral ever but it's also this element

that like the people that that is good for the people that it helps have absolutely nothing to do with the real context of the people that it actually involves, the people that it continues to affect. Right. There is an almost professional internet class

that benefits from things going viral. Yes, there is an insincerity to it too. And in a better maybe version of this, in a more realistic version of this, maybe they allow that Amanda Lestenberg character to be more cynical. opportunist. I think this movie needs to have all characters be generally good people. And in that way, you have no personification of the sort of empty opportunistic nature of the internet and of sort of viral

fame. And that is a big weakness in the movie. Yeah. And in 2016, I think it played a little differently also. Sure. But yeah, like, I don't like those projections in the stage version, but they did do a good job of feeling overwhelming in the way that, right? And I think they were trying so hard to make it feel to keep it from dating immediately. Yeah, technologically. They updated, I think there's a lot of Facebook in the original.

There is. And now they've made it slightly more Instagram, but I noticed they also just took a lot of it out where they were just like, it's online, it's everywhere. without name. God, the 2023 version of Dear Evan Hansen would have been like Evan doing a TikTok dance with like, with the text of the note like over it

and like it would be even more cringy and awful. Yeah. Text would be like, you are worth it. Yes, exactly. This was a visual medium. You would see my little weird. I lied to everyone. Yes. Yes. Yeah.

Yeah. Like and subscribe the Orchard account. All right. Wait. I want to get into the sort of the miscellaneous. of this, right? So, like, the, I mean, we can, like, go through this quickly, but, like, it really was the fact that, like, this trailer dropped in, when did I say? I wrote this down in the outline. May 21 is what you said. Yes, May. In May of 2021. And, like, that was the end of it, right? Like, we sort of, by that point, we knew where this was all headed. Unless, like,

unless the movie was really going to show itself to be something very, very different. Like, there was, the writing was on the wall by that point. It premieres in Toronto. Almost every who sees it in Toronto really hates it. The opening night, Toronto. But this is the Toronto where, like, no one goes. Right. Explain that. Explain that, Chris.

Okay, this is, it's 2021. Is this the first time we're really talking about the particulars of COVID? Maybe. Well, we talked about it in, like, tangents, but, like, not in the context of, like, a specific movie. But, like, in the way that it actually affects, you know, the unveiling of this. This is a mostly virtual TIF still, even though it's. Yes, there are vaccines, et cetera, but still, like, international travel is somewhat tricky. And, like, this was also the first Toronto where it's, like, it's pretty much online.

It's pretty much all in person, like, Dune is there, et cetera. But you're fully able to experience it online if you want to, and a lot of people opted to do that, us and Cuba. Almost, like, none of the big titles were available to press online. There was some press that went, everybody that went there, like it's a ghost town. You're in these 2,000 seat venues, and because of the social distancing of it, it feels like there's 50 people there. And it just

everybody that went said it was incredible. I would have been very depressed, I think, if I had gone to that particular. I think so, too. Yeah. And so Chris and I, in covering it virtually, we sort of readily accepted the fact that, as you said, a lot of the bigger movies that were going to open

were not going to be available to stream. Who the fuck wanted to watch Dune on a laptop anyway? Whatever. I saw an addiction at that TIF, and that ended up being one of the top movies that I saw of this year, so I was happy with that. Well, so anyway, you have a significantly smaller press sample. It is the opening night movie, so any press, or it's the opener of the festival itself, any press that was there saw this movie and, like, recoiled.

Recoiled, but also, like, it's just kind of a perfect setup to, really dog pile on this movie and feel really show me about this movie that already had really, really, really on my negative reception. So it's like you're going through a lot of loopholes during COVID and then you show up to a festival that feels like it's not fully... The vibes are probably bad anyway when you're there. And so, yeah. Yeah. So the, I mean, I can't think of a movie that had a more noxious, immediate press response than this movie. like that night like you know some of it we listen we were in a bad place in September

2021 like I think people were maybe a little too hard on this movie like I don't think that this movie is a tool for evil but like it's not good but like people absolutely laid into it in a way that really kind of killed the movie I mean people weren't showing up to movies all that well, but, like, it definitely killed its kind of box office potential as much as it could have, but, like, it was dead on arrival, partly because of that critical response. Well, and that's, I mean, just as a anecdotally, like, as a person who would be primed to see this movie, right, then it opens in September, which is just when Broadway is reopening. So, like, I had not yet been in a theater, I don't think.

I think my first movie in a theater was with you, Joe, to see in the Heights. Oh, wow, yeah. So, like, I will go to a theater. Wait, no, we didn't see In The Heights together. I saw In The Heights with different folk. No, I didn't see In The Heights with you. Oh, well. We saw something, but it was not that.

Not a great year for musicals being treated. Right. I mean, I will definitely stick up for In The Heights. Me too. Is that a movie you can do? Please have me back if you do in the Heights. We can't. We can, yeah, unfortunately.

We can. Well, that makes me sad, but I would love to talk about it. Another musical, I don't think is shot particularly well. Well, we disagree on that movie. Yeah, we will fight about that one. I have much more positive about it in the heights. We got to talk. I will give you screen caps of some of those green screenshots.

That's fair. That's fair. But we can, anyway, please have me back. Anyway, so, yeah, so, you know, I mean, yeah, I will, I will get, I will leave, I will leave my couch for a musical. But it, like, I mean, I barely knew it was happening. And at this point, like, we were so used to day and day streaming because we still were not really going out much. And I don't know why they didn't do that. Because I promise you, I would have had some kind of, you know,

Zoom watch party if I could have watched it at home. Had Universal started putting things on Peacock by that point? Was this before or after Halloween kills? It didn't go to Peacock. It took until about the Thanksgiving window for this movie to hit VOD. Right. And this is why they didn't do day and date because, I mean, initially I think they thought that they would make some money on this movie.

Once those reviews hit, that was over. But so this was September, and then Halloween Kills the next month, opened day and day. Halloween Kills was the first one that was like, we're going to do Peacock as well. And maybe partly because of the box office performance of this movie. But they didn't do the VOD right away because the day that it does, and this happens for a lot of movies now, but this is one of the first times I ever remembered seeing it. That's when the screenshots making fun of his performance. really, really blew up. Like, the stuff that wasn't in the trailer where it's like,

look how awkward he is, this 30-year-old man. Right, the crumple face. But it's, like, the sob face going everywhere, the screaming. Yeah. Yeah, because then when it did come out, you still have to pay for it for a while. Because I watched it on a plane in January

because it still hadn't hit any of the streamers that I have for free. Yeah. For a couple months after that. And at that point, I was like, If I had seen over the shoulder somebody watching Dear Evan Hansen on a plane, I would have probably like taken a... Watch them watching it. Taking a photo and then texted several friends and just being like,

oh, this person's watching Dear Evan Hansen on a plane. Should I warn them? Wait, Adam, you said you had a game for us, though, and I don't want to get too far along before we allow you just to hoist this. I mean, are we going too long? Should we skip? No, we're not going too long. There is no such thing as too long.

But I don't want it to be like, I want some oxygen between your game and the IMDB game. Okay, well, so this is a thing. I'm going to be very bad at the IMDB game. And I also thought this might have been a six-timer for Amy or Julianne. So I just want to prepare. It is only our second Amy Adams movie. And it is like our eighth Julianne Moore. So unfortunately, we have multiple Amy Adams movies that we can do this year alone.

Yeah. It's true. We'll do The Woman in the Window eventually, too. Julian and Amy riding again. I know. Yeah. Another movie that the best scene in it Is Julianna and Amy together?

Yes, 100%. Woman in the Window is going to be one that while I don't think it's a good movie, I will have a lot. We'll have a fun time to talk about that. Wait, all right, so Adam. So, yes, I brought you a very quick, mostly very easy game. I am going to read you the first line of a movie musical. Oh, okay.

Name the movie for three points. If you don't get it. The first line from the movie version of it, right? movie version, yeah, so which is, which might, which might screw you up. Okay. And is this a shout out or is this a take a turn? Take a turn. I'm going to alternate.

First line, three points, second line, two points. Then I'll give you the year for one point. All right. All right. Are we keeping our own scores? I can keep your scores. Okay. All right.

Okay. Chris, I have a dream, a song to sing. Mama Mia. Yes. There you go. Joe. Yes. Are you blind when you're born?

Oh, that is cats. Do, do, do, do. Yeah. Like. Chris. Oh, oh, oh. Hairspray. Wow.

Get the fuck out of here. I'm so screwed. Okay. All right. Joe. Yes. Whoa. Oh, oh, oh.

Oh, for fuck sake. Wait, so I need to get the qualitative. differences between oh, oh, oh, oh, and do it again? Whoa, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. Oh, fuck. I need the second line. Ladies and gents, this is the moment you've waited for.

Oh, my God, the greatest showman. Jesus Christ. Whoa. I know you know. Yeah, I got it, yeah, yeah. All right, Chris. This is very Pat Kiernan, by the way. Remember what Pat Kiernan in a trivia would do the song lyrics,

but speak them in the very Pat Kiernan. and monitor? It's really hard to do with no inflection. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. And these are, these are like literally first lines in the movie. So some of them are spoken, like this one. On the 23rd day of the month of September, in an early year of a decade, not too long before our own. Little Shop of Forest, baby. Nice. I'm mad about this one. Joe, 525,600 minutes. All right, come on. Like, this feels like charity, but yeah, this is rent. Okay, but they changed it.

Yeah. In the, in the show, it's September 24th, 9 p.m. Yes, which I also would have gotten. The two dates is going to be a joke, but then I actually checked it. And I was like, oh, damn it, they moved the number to the beginning. All right, Chris, I have sailed the world, beheld its wonders. Sweetie Todd, the demon Barbara. Ooh.

That one might stump you. Nice. What has stumped me. Okay, how about this one, Joe? Sold your number, sir. Thank you. Lot 663 then, ladies and gentlemen. The Phantom of the Opera.

Yes. All right This one's hard, Chris, but I think you know it Okay, one more time from the top Six beats all right I do know this, but I don't have it right there I think I know this Can you say it again?

Okay, one more time from the top Six beats all right Is it a chorus line? No Oh, that would have been my guess. Okay, I would have been wrong Okay Do you want second line? Yeah To be on the wire is life, the rest is waiting. Oh, God, wait, I know this.

I still would have guessed a chorus line based on that one, too. No, because chorus line, we're all on the line now. To be on the wire, wait, say the actual line. To be on the wire is life, the rest is waiting. Wire, not line. Yeah. Oh, no, this is going to be embarrassing because I know this.

The wire, it's like, not a trapeze, but what's a musical where? I don't know. I might need the year. You'll get it from the year, 1979. Oh, okay. Oh. Maybe you won't. Late 70s musical.

And chorus line would have been relatively close. Because that's mid-80s. I have a guess based on the year, but I don't know for sure. I mean, it's not all that... 79 is all that jazz, but this isn't all that jazz. Is that a guess? Is that all that jazz? Yeah, that would have been my guess based on the year.

Yeah. Sorry, listeners. I'm feeling very expletive. I love all that jazz so much. Yeah, that's why I thought you know it. Why did I think that there's a, there's like music playing in the background and then the, it's showtime, folks, is the first time. It's later. I thought so, too. It starts with a, with him and just calling. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, yes, it does. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, okay, Joe, this one's hard, but I know that you know this movie.

Okay. Father, sister, dearest voices, I have found you, and I don't know how. I know this. This is camp. This is my beloved can. Yeah, how shall I see you through my tears? I don't like that Joe is ahead of me. Only by one, but Chris, this is absolutely the hardest one in the game. Oh, no. Okay, say Jones and Barry are doing a show. Okay, say Jones and Barry are doing a show.

Jones and Barry, who... Give me the second line. well of course I'm not a lawyer I'm in the kitty car business I don't know much about contracts Is it the producers It's not the producers Your year is 1933

Whoa It's 42nd Street Whoa Okay Joe Joe Oh, Chicago. Yes.

There we go. I jumped it too soon. All right, at some point I'm going to have to look up with the goddamn first line of a course. Well, would you like our tiebreaker for shits and giggles? Sure, yes. Is it a course line? Pivot step, walk, walk, walk, walk. There we go.

Course line. I said it first. All right. Thank you, Adam. That was super fun. Now I'm going to, I will have you on and you'll have to get us a sequel. I have a whole list. I was going to say.

Yeah, Joe's our winner, 16 to 14. Very well played, both of you. Woo-hoo. Chris did get, by far, the more challenging ones. So I will, if I got Chris's questions and Chris got mine, Chris would have kicked my ass in that one. So, for sure. All right, that was very fun, though.

I want to get into a little bit of the, well, you know, okay, this is only our second Amy Adams. So we should probably maybe devote a little bit more time to her, even though I do think she's ill-served by this, and I don't think she's very good in this at all. Yeah, I feel like both of the headlining Oscar-y actresses in this movie felt some type of, like, connection to the material and took these roles that not only are they not very big roles. I mean, one of them won a Tony on the stage. Right, that's the thing. But, like, they don't serve them. They're not really right for it. I mean, Amy Adams, like I said earlier, she's, like, kind of an alien, but, like, Amy Adams is just tasked to, like, project.

so much of, I want to believe something good that it's just like, yeah, it, it makes her seem a little, I don't, it's, it's a little bizarre. And it's not her fault that I don't think it's necessarily a great performance. I just don't think she should have taken that. It's, I don't enjoy any of her scenes. It's, but it's one of those things where you're right, like, the, the, the real puzzling part is that she took the role at all, because by this point, she's, she's, she's already a six-time Oscar nominee by this point. So, like, the narrative for Amy Adams, by this point, especially among

people that we exist around and us, you know, we are not exempt from the problem here, but we tend to now interpret every further Amy Adams role as being like, is this going to be the one? And there was such puzzlement when she, when it was announced that Amy Adams was going to be

in Jer Evan Hansen because everybody was like, huh, as Connor as Connor's mom, rather than like, because, like you said, like the Tony winning role in the show is not that one. Like, that's the one that Julianne Moore is. And so, like, clearly people were like, are they going to write her a song? Are they going to write her sort of like a full song?

What is in this movie that would draw Amy Adams to it if it's not going to win her this Oscar? Because all of us are saying, through our obsession, is every single thing that Amy Adams does in her career should be with the goal of getting herself this elusive Oscar. and it's not. Sometimes she just wants to do a movie. You can also tell that she might be on a certain thread of, as a performer, wanting to explore certain types of themes. A lot of her, this stage of her career is a lot about complicated parent-child relationships or circumstances. You know, you think of hillbilly elegy, which is another one that, like, you can see how maybe she had some good intentions in wanting to play that character in a movie that ends up being a piece of shit.

it. And she can sing. That is an actual product for evil. Yes. Oh, like, this is not. I do feel like at some point, Ron Howard needs to reckon with the fact that he brought that to the screen and made. Netflix needs to. And made that man palatable to more people. Netflix is what funded that awful man. We can't. I know. We can't get too far down that way. We can't get into it. We can't get it. But the thing about Amy Adams is that like she has, she can sing. It's not like she's like one of our greatest singers, but like, I like her singing in the Enchanted movies. I saw her do into the woods in the park, and I thought she was quite good as the baker's wife in that. Again, you are maybe alone in saying that. I think other people have also liked her. She was fine enough that they didn't need to cut anybody got a map from this movie. They could have auto-chuned her.

It would have been fine. Yeah. I mean, I think another one of the roles of like, people forget that this happened, but it happened recently. It's a five-year-old show. Another one where it's like complicated parent-child dynamics and circumstances is Sharp Objects, which I thought was, if not the best performance of her career, one of the best performances of her career. And people dog on Amy Adams like that show never even happened. And it's like, I know you all watch that show.

I know you all thought she was great in the show. The problem with Sharp Objects is it was a July premiere, which meant it had to wait an entire year for Emmy nominations. and by that point, other things had sort of cut it in line. People also treated it like it was in the shadow of big little lies, even though it is a very, very different show. She's tremendous in it. Again, I think it's one of the best performances she's ever. Another one where they shouldn't have cut the musical number, though, yes.

Scars, scars, scars. Right, Patricia Clarkson comes down the stairs and full anti-name going, all these sharp objects. Back to Ben Platt for half a second, because I wanted to get both of your opinions on this. Because I imagine both of you have more of an experience with this show than I do. Ben Platt cast in January 2020 and the Richard Link Letter many years in the making project for Marily We Roll Along, which is going to be him. Now it's Paul Muskell. Meskell, I think, is how we're supposed to pronounce it, even though I'm fighting my own.

No, me too. I've been pronouncing it like the tequila as well. But apparently it's mescal. And then who's the female star? Beanie Feldstein. It's Beanie. Right. Okay.

And they haven't gotten far enough for the next tier female lead. I'm pretty sure they've only shot one sequence. I'm also pretty sure this movie is never going to be completed. Well, Richard Linklater will quite possibly die. Knock on wood. Knock on wood for long, longstanding health for Richard Linklater. Although, if they're following.

like the regular script of memory roll along, once again, it begins when those characters are, I want to say, 23, 24. So they're already too late. Yeah. So they may have shot a couple scenes, right, if they're not actually being completely accurate. So wait, so you, I want to hear from both of you. Do we like this casting of Ben Platt and this? Do we not like this casting? I do like this casting. I don't. All right. Good old-fashioned debate. He's playing Charlie, right? I like it if, you know, the take on the material is that Charlie maybe has a romantic affection towards Franklin as well. I've certainly, you know, seen that as a valid way to perform that role. I just don't... I think you need a comedic actor in that role, frankly. Because when he gets a good thing going, his big emotional number, you're going to expect that from that performer. Part of the reason why it's such a gut punch is like you should have a comedic actor in that role that's not going to, you know, give you the gut punch.

I don't know. I also just, I'll believe that movie is real when I see it in 25 years. That's the bigger point. I mean, yeah, that's a fair point. I like Ben Platt a lot as a performer. I don't think he has the most range. And it's true. He's not the most convincing heterosexual on stage.

And, you know, Charlie is, you know, Charlie is married with children, and it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, is about a deep love between two friends. And I think you kind of do have to not think that either of them is gay, actually, for it to, for it to read. So that is, that is kind of a good point. I don't know, I, I, I'm interested in seeing him do it. I think he'll sing it well. I, I, I've seen him in parade that he's in, now and I actually thought he was great in it. Is he going to win another Tony? What's going to happen with it? Probably. I think he's miscast for that too, but I trust your opinion. He's certainly up for it. You think what?

I think he's miscast in that role too. Yeah, but then I saw it. And I thought he was great. And like you sort of look at pictures of the actual Leo Frank. Like the original Broadway cast was phenomenal, but they were actually both too old. Just if you're going by realism, which I don't think you have to. You know, it's like the biopic problem of like, right, you don't have to. stick makeup on everybody to make them look like the real people. It's fine. But like, right,

he is the age that Leo Frank was. And I thought he was great. And I was not necessarily expecting that. And I came away with actually a lot of respect for him to do something that I didn't necessarily think he, like the dramatic acting side of it. I knew he could sing it. But I thought he was really terrific in it. So, so yeah, I mean, I'm interested. But yeah, but like you, Chris, I'm skeptical that it will ever actually get finished. Am I the only one of the three of us who saw the people we hate at the wedding? No, you're not. I also saw it. Did you like it?

I did. I love the women who wrote that movie, both Bob Spurger's and Great North writers. I did not like the performances in that movie. I think there is a challenge to playing, quote-unquote, unlikable characters who we also have to want to watch a movie about that I don't think. think he in particular was all that good at walking that line and um it's another it's it's sort of adjacent to some of the issues that i have with theater camp which is the sundance movie that i saw him in that i'm excited to see what other people make of it because that is a movie i found very funny and i really enjoyed watching it but that my problem in the movie focuses specifically on Ben's character and also Noah Galvin's character and the way that the movie sort of engineers itself to center the two of them at different moments in a way that I didn't really

love. But I enjoyed the experience of watching the movie and I will be interested to see how that movie ends up getting received because I can see people really enjoying it and I can see people really hating it and camp is still better. So in terms of a movie about stage door manner, camp is still better So Um All right Before we get into IMDB game

I just want to note This movie got four RASI nominations Dear Evan Hansing got four Razzi nominations Who Razzies? These are like this year though The Razzies are nominating movies That again, because of the pandemic They're nominating like TV movies

Like Taryn Manning as Karen Okay Anybody remembers that day? I do kind of remember Taryn Manning as Karen Here's the thing about the Razzies though is that, like, even when I start to be like, okay, like, worst actor Ben Platt, I can get behind it. We're supporting actress Amy Adams.

I don't think she's good in this movie, so whatever. Worst director, we've all talked about how we didn't think Shibosky directed it very well. But then it's like worst screen couple. Ben Platt and any other character who acts like Platt singing 24-7 is normal. It's a fucking musical. They all think. They all think. I fuck the Razzies.

You unimaginative dorks, like Jesus Christ. Like, it's a musical. It's a whole legitimate genre of movie. It's so fucking stupid Are you going to say that about the Wizard of Oz? Fuck off. That Ben Platt shouldn't have broke into song In the middle of the 1930s Wizard of Oz

Yes, yes, I will say that. I mean, he is a former lollipop guild member. Well, card-carrying member. He probably makes a tin man. Honestly, of the three of them, yes, I would rather see him do the Tin Man than the Scarecrow. I don't know why I just so definitively said that. I didn't give that more than half of a second's thought,

but maybe it's true. I mean, he does like unhingege his jaw his jaw and howl as evidence in this movie so maybe he'd rust so readily with how often he cries during his musical performances though so like maybe that would be um all right also that's what that's why his mouth is rusted shut at the beginning when dorothy finds him yeah because he was sobbing so much um we also have the alliance of women film journalists we only tend to really talk about when they're talking about a movie negatively i'm sure they also have like positive positive awards that they give out, but Amy Adams was part of their, she deserves a new

agent award for this and the woman in the window. She's not for like bad images on film because he gaslights and has sex with this female character in it. But to dog on Amy Adams. Amy Adams, I know. She did lose to Melissa McCarthy for the Starling, which maybe have a point. You maybe have a point there. Was this the year without a golden gloves?

There was never a year without a Golden Globes, but, like, the ceremony did not happen. Right. Yeah. In addition to this not being a kind year to movie musicals, the Globes did not nominate this movie. Well, I mean, it's sort of shocking to me that this didn't even get a Glove nomination. What were the Globes' nominations? Like, there's two new songs that weren't in the stage version. The Globes, even in the Heights only gets a best actor in a movie.

That's true. That's right. Yes. They went all in on West Side Story. West Side Story wins. But like the thing about this year in relationship to musicals is like West Side Story famously struggled to make any money. The other nominees were Tick, tick, boom, the one that I think, you know, fared well in this season. Yeah. Don't look up.

Cirano. Yikes. I like Ciroeno. I like Cirano. I like Cirano. Yeah. I thought that movie, I loved, you know I love Joe Wright. at least people in that movie can sing, but I thought that movie sucks.

It's deeply weird, but once I sort of got into the rhythms of it, I really liked it. It's not weird enough. I didn't see it. I can't comment, but until you just mentioned it, I forgot that it existed. Well, it also was the thing where it released so far late into last year that a lot of people count it for this year because it didn't open, it didn't open in New York until well into 2022. Wait, so the two new songs. They had a qualifying run, though. But then its actual release wasn't until April.

Right, but it shows up on a lot of people's top tens. So it's like journalists aren't beholden to those rules. So like it showed up on quite a few people's top tens this year for 2022, actually. Those people are nuts. I support it. Okay. But so the new, the songs written specifically for the Dear Evan Hansen movie were the Amanda Stenberg song, which title I can't remember.

It's called, no. The invisible ones. Invisible ones. It disappears the original that it replaced, which is co-written by Passingberg. and Paul and Amanda Lstenberg. Yes. And then Connor's song at the end that he does on video, that entire thing of Evan. So Evan confessing via TikTok or whatever is an invention of the movie.

Gotcha. And on stage, the rest of the world does not find out that he does it. Yes, I do think it's IG Live. And then in the play, in the scene he has at the end with Zoe, You know, he mentions that he found this list of Connor's favorite books from eighth grade, and he's been reading them. In the movie, it's this montage of him actually doing that and also tracking down people who knew Connor for real.

And Connor for Real. I heard it too. And finding this video of Connor performing a song that he wrote, like, in group therapy. And that underscores this whole montage of Evan, like, doing this detective work, which then leads up to the Orchus scene, in which also he explicitly apologizes to Zoe, which he does not do in the play. Right, right, yes.

The rest of that scene is pretty much the same. But I thought that, like, clearly, to me at least, the one that they were probably positioning for awards attention song-wise is the anonymous ones, which they could have also then sort of, you know, add Amanda Lestenberg to that campaign and, you know, an actor writing the song would have had another angle to it.

It does not get any traction because that movie was really, truly nobody wanted to keep talking about that movie as we had moved into award season. But looking at the five songs that were nominated, No Time to Die wins from the movie No Time to Die, Billy Elish and Phineas. Good song. But it existed for like two years. Right. Encanto nominates, we've talked about this before. Enkanto nominates the wrong song, Dosorgatus instead of. we don't talk about Bruno.

If they had only known, they absolutely would have won the Oscar for Best Original Song if they nominate Bruno. Diane Warren's Somehow You Do, performed by Reba McIntyre from the movie For Good Days

that everybody saw and remembers incredibly clearly. Beyonce's Be Alive from King Richard, which opened the Oscar ceremony, and then was definitely the thing about King Richard that everybody talked about at the end of the Oscar ceremony. And Chris's

nemesis Van Morrison his song Down to Joy from Belfast The virulently anti-Vax Van Morrison How many of those songs Would you have replaced with The Anonymous Ones? If that's your only choice

If your only choice is That song or the anonymous ones How many of them would you replace? The Van Morrison song Just the Van Morrison song You keep Reba You keep Reba and Diane Warren Reba performs that song

I mean Okay no I'm not saying I'm not being incredulous. I'm just making sure. Even though that movie really didn't exist, that's not one of the bad Diane Warren nominations. It's better than the one from Tell It Like a Woman. All of those songs and write about them.

Yeah. It's better than the one from Tell It Like a Woman. A applause from Tell It Like a Woman is pretty bad. And they perform that one twice over the end credits of that song. They perform it and then they perform it again. And it's deeply strange. Adam, of those that you are familiar with, I honestly don't remember any of them except for the Encanto one, so I really cannot, and I, I mean, I remember the sort of remember the Beyonce opening from the ceremony from watching it, but like vaguely.

It's not, I will say, at the risk of incurring wrath, I don't think as a Beyonce song goes, it's not a very good song. No, I just remember like the performance being visually cool, but like I couldn't tell you a thing about the song. Everybody was dressed like tennis balls. That was very cool. That was very fun. We all liked it. Yes. But I also just, I texted you when I was watching the movie yesterday, and then I forgot about it all over again that.

the dreadful cover of you will be found over the end credits by Sam Smith. And I'm not a Sam Smith hater, but truly one of the worst things I have ever heard. They do. The Dear Evan Hanson movie soundtrack had like a bunch of different people

covering certain songs from the show. Like Siza does a version of the anonymous ones. That's also all the credits. Carrie Underwood does only us. Torrey Kelly does waving through a window. Like this is all on the soundtrack album

for the movie to sort of like pad it out I guess and to I guess give opportunity for a tie-in single had the movie been successful which it was not anyway yeah I mean like I have that greatest showman covers album oh yeah like there are good ones but that's worth it for Kelly Clarkson yeah exactly yeah um give me Kelly Clarkson seeing you'll be found I'll be very happy but it's also it's just it's the arrangement it's the tempo it's not she's definitely done that on Kelly Okee must have maybe not now yeah I would imagine all right we are we are getting to the point where we need to do this iMdb game but adam before we're done anything else about this movie that you want to uh get off your chest oh let me look at my notes i mean it's fine but like so i'm actually like i'm never happy when a you know broadway show closes and people out of work but i i am eager to see the show get licensed and like new productions and like high school production you know some drama teacher out there is going to be like i have one kid i have one kid who can sing and we're going to do Dear Evan Hansen, right? Like, I actually think that might be amazing to see new productions. And I, you know, I nitpick because it's what I do. But, like, I do like the show. I understand that's problematic. But I, you know, Pasquim Paul's music is deeply manipulative, and it gets me.

It does. It works on me more than I would like to admit that it does. I can't, like, recommend this movie to anybody. Right. I think if there's, like, a regional production of the show out there somewhere near you, you know, go check it out. Yeah, give it a go. If you can find somebody who

is not already in a relationship with somebody who is a dear Evan Hansen, who isn't Evan Hansen, we can cast somebody new in the role of Evan Hansen. Yes, the greatest matchmaking tool in the history of Broadway. Chris, do you want to explain what the IMDB game is? I do. Every week we end our episodes with the IMDB game where we challenge each other with an actor or actress

to try to guess the top four titles that IMDB says they are most known for any of those titles are television, voice-only performances, or non-acting credits will mention that up front. After two wrong guesses, we get the remaining titles release years as a clue. If that's not enough, it just becomes a free-for-all of hints. Exactly. All right, Adam, as our guest, you get the choice to either guess or give first, and which direction you would like this game to go in. Let me guess first and get it over with, because I'm going to be bad, and, and, uh, You guys pick, I don't know. It doesn't matter.

Okay. I can give to you from mine, I feel like. I'm worried now that we maybe picked the same one. So if the one that I picked is the one that you picked, then I'll give to Chris. But I went through the Tony nominees of the Dear Evan Hanson year, one of the people who Ben Platt defeated in his category for best leading actor in a musical. was David Hyde Pierce, who was in Hello Dolly. And so there are four known for David Hyde Pierce, one of which is a television show, one of which is a voice performance. Is that the one that you picked?

No, I went a similar route, but I didn't look at him at all. Okay, good. So you guessed these four. Okay, so Frazier. Yes, Frazier is the television show. Okay. Wouldn't it be a gag? It would be a gag.

Yes, it would be. Okay, the voice, um, he's done a lot of, of voice work. Yes, he has a very distinctive voice. It is movie voice work,

so it is not him as Sideshow Bob's brother on the Simpsons episode, even though he's very good in that one. He's very good in that. Only because I just watched it, but it's probably not this.

Is it Treasure Planet? It's not Treasure Planet. That is Strike One. It's not far off. Okay, I'm not sure that helps. All right, let's go back to the other stuff. my mind is emptied of movies he has been in the host no not the host

which one is the host it's that movie where he's a host okay it's not the Stephanie Meyer not Twilight movie no no it's like a it's definitely not the bongtunho film no it's like a it's like an evil dinner party or something

oh okay yeah all right well now you get you've got two wrong so you guys got years. Okay, so your years are 1998, 2001, and 2003. 98 is the voice. Yeah, 98 is the animation. Which is why I was like, it's pretty close to Treasure Planet.

Is it Atlantis? Not Atlantis. It's a Pixar movie. It's Pixar. Okay. Is he in a toy story? He's not in a toy story. Is he? He's not in a toy story. No. It's Pixar 98.

98's pretty early for Pixar Yeah, that's why I thought Toy Story What's the one? I'm so bad at this Speaking of Kevin Spacey Yeah, yes, Kevin Spacey's a voice in this He's not the lead, David Hyde Pierce is not the lead I'm trying to remember what

Is he like the sidekick in this, Chris? Oh, I'm just now remembering who the lead is I'm not sure because I haven't seen this in a very long time. It's been a while. Kevin Spacey is the villain, I will say. There's also another, if I'm remembering correctly, I'm going to actually pull this up. There's another voice talent who is also someone very famous for TV. Yes, I am correct about that.

Yes, as the female lead. Yes. The male lead is also famous for TV. There's a lot of TV people. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is an animated movie that had another. animated movie that was very similar concept at about the same time. The DreamWorks did at the exact same time.

Yeah. Oh, oh, right. Of course. It's a bug's life. It's a bug's life. Yes. Yes. He voices slim.

I guess he's the stick bug, right? That's the, he's the sort of persnickety. Imagine David Hyde Pierce playing a persnickety bug in a bug. Okay. So your other two are both comedies. One of which is they're both sort of enduringly popular now, of a little bit surprisingly. Both cult comedies.

Yes, both cult comedies. One of which I am so, I will always tell you I was on the ground level of the fandom for this movie. I'm so happy that people love it. Yeah, me too. We got a real one right here. Yeah. So they're both very different though, comedies.

One is sort of this like pastichy, very design heavy comedy, concepty comedy. And the other one is also very concepty, actually, but in like very different way and like a huge ensemble comedy. that he is. This was a real cult comedy, too. Yeah. I'm pretty sure you've seen them both, Adam, although I couldn't swear to it.

What were the years? 01 and 03. 01 has had... A couple of TV extensions. Sequels. Yes. Yeah, extensions. Huh.

In the form of, like, TV series. Like, in forms of, like, two limited series sequels. Which was David Hyde Pierce in the extensions? Oh, oh, yeah. He was one of the ones who wasn't. I got it. What Hot American Summer. I don't believe he's in the TV extensions.

I don't think so. But anyway. Yes, What Hot American Summer. He's very funny in that. He's very funny. Yeah. The science professor. Yes.

All right. The other one. I think he was in one of them. I think he was in the first TV. The O3, he is a persnickety psychic again. Who, what I also love about this movie, he has a love story that his female counterpart in the movie is also queer as well.

In real life, yes. The sort of the meta joke of the casting is that he and... You have a gay man and a lesbian. And in a sidekick romance. Yes. The bee love story of this movie. Yes.

In a way that reflected like the reality of the thing that... The pastiche it's doing. Right, exactly. Oh, I don't think I've seen this, but is it Is this the, um, is it down with love? It's down with love. It's down with love.

Oh, you'd really like it. If you haven't seen it, Adam, you have to watch it today. It's on my list. Bibi's in it too, right? I'm pretty sure, yes. Isn't she like the boss? Isn't she Renee's boss? She's the mean boss, I think, yeah.

I think so. It's been on my list forever. Uh, yes. It's really delightful. I think you would very much enjoy it. It's a banger. Yes. It's a great movie.

Um, right, B.B. North is in this. Maybe I'm not seeing her. I don't think so. We might be thinking of... Wait, is she... Is B.B. Newworth, or Kate Hudson's boss on how to lose a guy in 10 days?

I think that's maybe what... Yes. Okay. I'm glad we figured that out. All right. Good job, Adam. Very well done. Terrible job.

But thank you for all your help. All right. So you give to Chris. Okay. So I had... Well, let's just say it. Because you might have looked at this already. So I have a backup.

But the winner of the Best Actress Tony Award the year of Dear Evan Hansen was Lori Metcalf. I was shocked that she wasn't on the list. So Lori Metcalf, there is one TV and one voice. Well, the voice is Andy's mom

in Toy Story. In which Toy Story? Toy Story, the first story. In Toy Story. Lady Bird is definitely on there. Yeah, even though it's recent. Okay, if there was somebody, it might have been John Goodman. There was somebody that the Connors

was on there and Rosanne wasn't which was psycho but I am going to say Rosanne. Correct. Okay, thank God. Um, am I going to get... We can't... Perfect score possible. Every time we do this that they're like, you could get a perfect score, Chris. I don't. Okay. Um, though I, I do feel strongly

even if I'm wrong, we need to bring justice to this. Uh, is her fourth one scream two. It is. Congratulations. That was the one I thought you were going to get. Yeah. Congratulations, Chris. Thank you.

Well done. All right. My backup was Andy McDowell because of Groundhog Day, but I was afraid that you had just looked at her for the Magic Mike episode. For Magic Mike, yeah. Well done, Chris. On Andy McDowell's known for is just her pronunciation of the word damn in Magic Mike XXL. All right.

What do you have for me, Christopher? For you, I actually went into the pitch perfect cast, um, notedly the debut, I believe, of Mr. Ben Platt. And for you of the bitch-perfect cast, Joe, I chose Brittany Snow. It's funny that we keep mentioning pitch-perfect. I'm re-watching. I just re-watched Drag Race All-Stars 2 recently, so I was like, what do I go into next? And so now I'm watching Season 8, the second episode of which is called Bitch Perfect,

because it's a pitch-perfect parody challenge. Season 8 is so good. Every time we have said, that's why I want to go back, and it's been forever since I've watched. But every time we've said pitch-perfect in my head, it's like, Perfect. Season 8 is so good, but it does feel like they're overcompensating from season seven being so boring and bad. That sometimes, like, it can feel a little much, not on the queen's side, but on a production

side. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. I get you. All right. Brittany Snow, you said. Brittany Snow, the great Britney Snow, we should say. Any television.

No television. So no American dreams. No. Well, pitch perfect. Pitch perfect, correct. Okay. Um, hair spray, as everybody from hairspray. Correct.

Pretty much. Pretty sure everyone on the poster of hairspray has it in the before. Yep. All right. What if everybody on the poster of hairspray had it in their known for except Nikki Blonsky? That's why she has to remind everybody. It's all her cameos. Like, it's four separate cameos.

Some of those cameos are even more iconic than her. Honestly? Kind of. All right. Is pitch perfect two? one of them for Britney Smith. Pitch Perfect 2. Correct. Doing well. Maybe we'll get two perfect scores on here. It would be, you would be the person to give me somebody who had like three sequels to a thing on the assumption that I wouldn't guess that. And that would be your

diabolical way of getting to me. But I'm not going to guess pitch perfect three yet. But what else? I don't think most people remember there was the third pitch perfect. I'm trying to think of like anything else that I can think of Britney Snow in. It's like she was on crazy ex-girlfriend, but like it's that's television and you know what pitch perfect two was good for hailey steinfeld and the original song sung by hayley steinfeld and jesse jay spotlight agreed good song not my not my damn not my thing um listeners could have seen the face that joj just made no okay uh shut britney snow all right so you have no wrong guesses i can i know but there's no way because like i i'm generally genuinely having a

hard time conjuring. Oh, wait, no. Is it X? It is not X. The one thing I liked about that movie. I liked her too. She is fucking rad in that movie, but that movie sucks. The people that are all about Mia Goth and these Thai West movies, I can't abide. I liked X, and then like every day that passed after X, I liked it in my memory a little bit less until now, I'm just like, yeah, I don't think I like that. All right, so that's one strike. Britney's no rules in X, though. I am going to throw away, I guess, and just say Pitch Perfect 3, and then I can... That is incorrect. Your year is 2008, the year after Hairspray.

2008. What was going on in the culture? You're going to need to pivot genres away from the musicals. You were on the right path with guessing X, though. So a horror movie. Oh, is she in My Bloody Valentine? I believe that was after 2008. That is not the movie, but you are

getting warmer. Prom night? Prom night? There we go. I knew it was one of those. I knew it was one of those, too. It's all a remake. Okay.

Woo. All right. Very well done. I say to myself. That's my little affirmation that I'm going to give to myself after I and do B games where I struggle. Okay. That's our episode.

Adam, thank you once again for joining us. At long last, we have broken the seal on 2021. We'll see what, yes, come back soon. We'll talk about another musical and have a good old time. Listeners, if you want more of this had Oscar Buzz, you can check out the Tumblr at this hadoscurbuzz.com. You should also follow our Twitter account at had underscore Oscar underscore Buzz and our Instagram at this had Oscar buzz. Adam, where can the listeners find you and anything else you are putting forth into the world? Well, as you mentioned 17 hours ago, I am one of the co-hosts of the podcast.

Muppetergy. We are watching and recapping the Muppet Show on Disney Plus. We get nerdy and pedantic and do a lot of research to contextualize the late 70s and, you know, all about the songs and what else was on TV the night that the show was originally aired and in the news. And we have a lot of fun, I think. We are wrapping up our third season now. So you can find us at Muppeturgy.com and anywhere you get podcasts and on all the social medias at Muppeturgy. You can find me on all the social medias at Adam 807. I am also on Letterbox. You can judge my terrible taste and how far behind I am in movies.

And yeah. All right. If I don't see it down with Love Log today, I'm going to be really upset. Chris, where can the listeners find you and your stuff and the logs of movies that you are watching? You can find me streaming the Pitch Perfect 2 original song Spotlight on Twitter and Letterbox at Chris V file. All right, I am on Twitter and also letterboxed at Joe Reed, read-spelled REID. We would like to thank Kyle Cummings for his fantastic artwork and Dave Gonzalez and Gavin Mevious for their technical guidance. Please remember to rate, like, and review us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Google Play, Stitcher, wherever else you get podcasts.

A five-star review in particular really helps us out with Apple Podcasts visibility, so quit waving through that damn window and write us a nice review. That is all for this week, but we hope you'll be back next week for more bars. When you're You're waiting to hear you When you're broken on the world When you're looking for me You wish your way to rise again Let's your head

and all the mind You will be mine