This Had Oscar Buzz - 236 – Secret In Their Eyes

Episode Date: March 27, 2023

After The Secret in Their Eyes won Argentina and director Juan José Campanella the 2009 Best Foreign Language Film Oscar, an American remake emerged with primo screenwriter and director Billy Ray attached. Dropping the The faster than a gritty reboot, the American Secret In Their Eyes not only drew top stars but, in adaptation, turned the original’s … Continue reading "236 – Secret In Their Eyes"

Uh-oh, wrong house. No, the right house. No, I didn't get that! We want to talk to Marilyn Hacks. How did you find him? Online, 696,000 Caucasian males in the U.S. prison system. You can cycle through the entire population in a year if you look at 19006 faces every night, so I did.

For a year? For 13 years. We're hoping that case. We've had multiple leads. They've all been false alarms. Then jest dies a little bit every single time. I don't have the stomach to watch him walk away again. Maybe we go about this a little less.

Bill. Ray. Justice. I owe my daughter that. Hello and welcome to the This Had Oscar Buzz podcast, the only podcast drinking Grey Goose at noon. Every week on This Had Oscar Buzz, we'll be talking about a different movie that once upon a time had lofty Academy Award aspirations, but for some reason or another, it all went wrong. The Oscar hopes died, and we are here to perform the autopsy. I'm your host, Joe Reed. I'm here, as always, with my incredibly distracting bangs Chris File.

Hello, Chris. first thing we're definitely not the only podcast drinking gray goose at noon we don't drink great goose at noon but definitely not also gray goose at noon the other Claire DeNey movie

that was released last year the third Claire DeNey did better than the other two strangely enough yeah yeah yeah and incredibly distracting bangs I got a listeners I got a text message from Joe this morning

saying, please know that I want to spend a decent amount of time talking about the movies where Julia Roberts has bangs. Yes. I went in, I did, not to, like, jump the gun. No, please do, because, like, I ran out of time to do as much research as I wanted to do. So please tell me you did. I immediately rushed to her filmography

and was looking at the movies that I at least remember her having bangs in. Right. It's quite an oeuvre. You could also say that it is the, as the children would say, flop era Julia Roberts, whenever she has bang. And I'm not just pinning this on Mother's Day. Uh-huh.

I wanted to talk about Mother's Day, which is right around this era. I want to get into this, and I'm glad that you did the legwork on this, because I want to give this its proper airing. This is going to be an interesting movie to talk about, Secret in their eyes. Secret in their eyes. No definite article in the American version of this movie. That was their signal that they had, you know, made an adaptation.

And from what I have read, I have not watched. Have you seen the original Argentine version of this movie? Yes, that Oscar season, but I have not seen it since. Yeah. So it's been a long time. Significant plot departures from that one. That one obviously is very, very steeped in Argentine politics and history. of the sort of late 20th century, pre and post, actually, interesting.

Because I think the furthest, the earliest portion of that story takes place before the military dictatorship took place. And it's interesting watching, or sorry, reading that plot description after watching, like, Argentina, 1985, which deals with the aftermath of all of that. But obviously, you couldn't do an American version of that that had any kind, you know, any of that involved in it. This version tries to graft onto it a little post-9-11

commentary, which feels very thin and ultimately... Doesn't work. Doesn't work. Doesn't work, and it also feels half-happed. It's very half-assed. Also, because you brought up Argentina 1985, Argentina-1985, also has the same lead actor as the original secret that's in their eyes,

Ricardo de Rand. There we go. All right. I'm glad we're making connections here. Great action. Now, watching this movie, I'd never seen the original version of this movie. So I had not, that was, I think, the year before, I started at least trying to watch all of the Oscar nominees. So this was, 2009, it was still kind of difficult, even living in New York City, to get your hands on everything, especially. It is actually easier now than it was then, especially the international nominees being able to see them because there were whole seasons where, everything was qualifying release and this one I don't think God it's maybe I'm remembering incorrectly but this one I think is one of the ones that didn't really get much of a limited

or general release until after the nomination it's it's an interesting one this was sort of there was this era of the foreign language category and we'll get into this a lot more after we do the plot description and whatnot but there was an era of this category that I don't necessarily feel like we're in as much anymore, where you had your heavy sort of critical faves, and they were almost always, like, guaranteed to not win. Like, you knew that whatever movie that was the heavy critical favorite of the nominated five was probably going to lose to something that was more broadly popular, was less, you know, sort of, uh, uh, uh,

I don't know, do you think that we're kind of, I mean, we've had a lot of really popular, or we've had a lot of, you know, crossover international features in recent years, but I think that's made a difference, though. I think the fact that movies like Parasite and Drive My Car have crossed over into the major categories has helped those movies that are, you know, more, more critical favorites to, I mean, like, I think, yes, all quiet on the Western front, it rode that line to a more. Right. I was going to use that example, because, like, all quiet on the Western front beating E.O. Sure, but, like, a fantastic woman won in, you know, for 2017. And I think even, like, the salesman, the Ashgar Farhadi movie, like, that was a huge critical favorite. The fact that Amor... The fact that Amor won, well, was Tony Erdman nominated? Oh, it was. It was. That's true. It was.

I actually liked the salesman a lot. better than Tony Erdman. So maybe that's my own bias sort of coming through there. Tony Erdman is a movie that has become, like, of the past decades' worth of movies, like one of maybe the 10 definitive movies for me. But the salesman's incredible. Yeah. But I think the fact that, like, and again, Amor was the Best Picture nominee,

but the fact that, like, Michael Hanukkah was able to win in 2012 for a more after not winning in 2009 for the White Ribbon will get into that whole race. I just feel like we are, it's less of a. it's less of a, you know, you could set your watch by the fact that like departures was going to beat out the class and Walswood Bashir and, you know what I mean, like those movies that year. And it's less of a, you know, it's, it's a more daring category now. I think it's a more crossover friendly category now, which I think ultimately is to the benefit. Yeah, I mean, I think there's two factors going into it. I think broadly people are becoming more interested in international films, especially, I think, younger generations are. There's more access, as you mentioned, yeah. There is more access to it, but I also think, you know, subtitles are no longer a barrier.

I mean, I think most people even watch TV shows with subtitles on anymore. But I do also think that the tastes are broadening and are accepting of more, not always. Sure. And, of course, it's subject to whatever is submitted for individual countries. But, I mean, you know, I think there is more acceptance of... Yeah. We'll get into the foreign language race, because in many ways, it's going to be more interesting, almost, to talk about the original version of this movie than The Secret in the Rise itself, because once of this movie, there was definitely buzz for this movie based on the Oscar pedigree of the Argentine film and the... fact that it stars Julia Roberts and Nicole Kidman and

Chiavore, who, and he was sort of so close to his breakthrough moment with 12 Years of Slave. So there was a lot of and Billy Ray is a talented director. He directed Shattered Glass and, you know, a movie that didn't get Oscar nominations, but a lot of people feel like it should have. So there was definitely advanced buzz for this movie. And you understood why. And then once people saw the movie, it was like, well, well, no. Obviously,

obviously not. Obviously, this is not going to come to anything. It's not a great translation of material. And you can see how when the original was arriving in the United States, you know, it might have seemed like, you know, transferring this to post-9-11 American paranoia. We've talked about a lot of movies that do that, there are still a ton more that were in the Oscar Rays and not, I mean, aside from it being kind of a, you know, underbrewd version of that, it feels a little late, but especially because the original came in the season of the Hurt Locker Year, you could see why that would have been the concept for the American version, right?

Yeah. It's part of it is frustrating that that is the only thing people can look to to like, well, if you're going to do an American version of anything and you have to translate some sort of foreign political context to an American version, everybody's just like, we'll make it about 9-11. You know what I mean? And this is a movie that really demonstrates the fact that, like, that is not a one-size-fits-all. And ultimately, And yet there are still ways that I think this movie kind of got timid and got, you know, I think the fact that we'll talk about it once we get into talking about the plot of the movie. But I think the fact that the main sort of criminal in this movie is this, like, incredibly, you know, he's not American. He's coded as foreign, but he's coded as white. You know what I mean? So, and I think. Yeah. It doesn't work for, you know, like I said, post-9-11 paranoia.

Right. where it's just like it's like the adjacency to this mob or even government corruption that's right like if you want to really you know tie in 9-11 to this like have the balls essentially to make it the fact that these cops you know zeroed in on you know a you know a Muslim criminal and make it thorny like that make it difficult make it you know complicate these characters more than this movie ultimately does through its circumstances or the system implicate the systems that they're working in Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But it also, you know, because there's a time jump, and the time jump in the original is much larger than this, which is another reason why, well, you have the stars you're dealing with. Yeah. But it also makes it work kind of less.

I'd be maybe into this movie if it was more explicitly about implicating the type of mindset, you know, of, having a murkier moral compass to this movie because it does feel like it's chickening out at every opportunity. It could be very condemning towards the type of people who, you know, got on board with this kind of gross post-9-11 nationalism and what that did to their moral compass at the time and having an ability to be condemning, regretful about that in the movie. It never really fully draws that line to the allegory of it that, you know, would have made the movie work or be more interesting. Yeah, I think that's right. And it just ultimately feels like it's a much richer and more interesting story told in its original context. You know what I mean? Like, like unavoidably.

And you'd probably have just been better just, you know, buying, you know, buying the distribution rights to the original movie and just like trying to make some money off of that one. because I get, I understand why, you know, a writer-director like Billy Ray and stars like Julia Roberts and Nicole Kidman or whatever would be, you know, attracted to a movie like this. But ultimately, it shortchanges itself more than anything else, which is, you know, which is, you mentioned distribution because this movie was produced independently, even with big stars. And then it was the second movie distributed by STX, a distributor that always kind of struggled to get into the race. Yes.

Yeah, what was, what was, now I want to look up the big STX movies, hold on. I mean, they had hustlers. Hustlers was basically. That's what I was thinking of. Their closest bid into the race. Should have been, should have been a successful bid into the race. Listen, everyone knows how we feel about that. Yes.

Yeah, we don't need to get into it again, even though we could. We'll be here for decades getting into it. What has been there more... They also had Molly's game. Well, Molly's game is an actual Oscar nominee. Right. They had a finger in the pot of a man called Otto, although that was a Sony release in the States.

They have a sense somewhat devolved or dissolved, I mean. and I think are trying to get back in the game, but, you know. They mostly, yeah, are, you know, releasing movies through other major distributors. So we'll see how that goes. Most recently, the Guy Ritchie movie Operation Fortune, Ruse de Guerr, was a movie that STX ultimately had distributed by Lionsgate. So, yes, absolutely not. is correct. That is the correct answer.

My apologies to Aubrey Plaza. Absolutely not. Honestly, yes. Let's get through the plot description then because I want to talk about what happens in this movie as opposed to what happens in the original movie, why I think this one doesn't work, why I want to pick out things about this that works because I will say this is a movie that is. almost two hours long. It's an hour

51. And it's a movie where all of a sudden, I'm like, oh, are we into the end game of this movie? And I looked at the timestamp and there's only 20 minutes left, which is a good sign for a movie. That I'm like, oh, this movie is moving faster than I thought it, you know, it would.

So this is a watchable movie. It's just not, it's one that you can like pick holes in as you're watching it. You know what I mean? So it's like, and it's not ultimately satisfying, I think, the twist at the end is a lot I think the twist at the end

does a lot to reveal where this movie's faults are and how it could have been a better movie. There's, I want to say a Simon Cowell phrase or maybe it's Nigel Lithgow from So You Think You Can Dance. One of the two of them would criticize something

as you over-egged the pudding, which like that sort of feels like what this, the ending to this movie is. Where it's just like... The lead into the twist, this montage The usual suspects style. We've seen the usual suspects, Billy Ray.

Like, you can't do that again. Except the ending is not as much of a gotcha as the ending to the- But it wants to be a gotcha, but it's just like, I don't know. You don't see, I didn't see exactly the twist coming, but you know a twist is coming because it's just like Julia Roberts is in this role and she's barely been in this movie. So what's going on? And she gets the and credit in this is the other. um and julia roberts which i would love to know god things i wish i had more time to research how many times julia roberts has been the and in a movie probably not very many maybe mother's day um maybe mother's day is the only reason okay so we are going to talk about the 2015 movie secret in their eyes written and directed by billy ray based on the 2009 uh oscar winning argentine film el secrito desous ojos uh it stars shibatel edgio for julia robert

Nicole Kidman, Alfred Molina, very briefly, Dean Norris. We got to talk about the Dean Norris of it all once we get past this, because quite possibly going to be our first character actor to get a six-timers call. Well, yes, depending on how you talk about, how you view Dermit Mulroney and the long, you know what I mean? He's sort of... Dermott Moran, he's been a leading man. Yes. He's sort of a C-level leading man, but yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right.

Yeah, this is our fourth Dean Norris movie. Spoiler alert, sort of, our fifth is coming soon. Michael Kelly. Our sixth is coming soon. No, fifth is coming soon. Six will be our... Oh, right, right, right, right, right. Six, who knows where six will come from, but he's on the precipice.

Michael Kelly, star of House of Cards, is in this movie. Also, Joe Cole plays the twin roles of the bad guy and then the last bad guy who they think is the bad guy. This movie premiered November 20th, 2015, no festival run-up for this movie. This was one that I remember being like, oh, this is sort of a thing waiting down the road. One of the last, not the last movie that anybody had seen in 2015, but like, by the time you get into late December, or late November, rather, and a movie hasn't sort of rolled out the red carpet anywhere. This movie skipped even AFI, I believe. Yeah, it didn't do anything before, before it released in late November.

which sometimes projects strength and sometimes projects the opposite of strength. And that's maybe this. Let me grab my phone and then I can time you for a 60-second plot. If you are prepared. Yeah. Even if you're not prepared, actually, this train's leaving. How am I going to do the time jumps in this?

I know, I know. All right. Ready? So Chris file the plot description for Secret in Their Eyes. Your time starts now. All right. So we are going back and forth from 2002 and 2015, back in 2002. Ray and his partner, Jess, they are counter-terrorists investigators in the FBI. They are investigating a murder found in a dead body. It turns out to be Jess's daughter, who has been brutalized and left for dead in this dumpster. Meanwhile, Claire is coming in there, played by Nicole Kidman, who is new to the division. And then by the time we get in 2015, she's right. up in the ranks to be in a powerful position, et cetera. They, uh, Ray starts investigating.

They think that this man, uh, named Marzen is the killer for it, uh, and they investigate him and, uh, eventually he ends up attacking Claire in the investigation, blah, blah, blah, moving forward in time, Ray comes back and meets them, uh, back at the unit. He has since left, but is coming back. Just looks like she's been wearing the weight of all of this all along. It turns out that she has, says that she has killed Marzin secretly to the two of them, but they also see this other man who looks exactly like him, only Marshall Mathersie. And it turns out that Jess has not killed this man and buried him in the backyard.

She's been holding him prisoner in a barn in the back of her house, and Ray discovers that and ends up actually burying the grave and Jess kills him. A good 27 seconds over time, but you know, what? I let you go with it because doing the bare minimum of this plot because like it takes a lot to explain this twist it does a lot

to explain that this is not one man who looks two different ways there's two men who look remarkably alike. Okay. We're going to by that I mean they gave Joe Cole a fake nose and a generalized

Dutchish area Scandinavian accent and then they fully make him look like Marshall Mathers as the other character. Well, part of me was like, I hope Aaron Taylor Johnson's agent got a talking to after this movie for not getting him the obvious role of this guy. This is an Aaron Taylor Johnson part through and through as I'm watching this. Poor Joe Cole, not getting the roles and opportunities of Aaron Taylor Johnson, because Joe, Cole, I think, is a really good actor. Are you a fan?

I mean, I wouldn't say a fan because there's not as many roles. I remember him in Green Room. I was just going to say. A lot of people hate. I didn't recognize it as I was watching the movie, and then I looked him up after. And he's, yeah, he's the fourth. He's the one in Green Room in the band who is not Anton Yeltsin or Callum Turner or obviously Alia Shock Hat.

So, yeah. I mean, Green Room, the time that it came out, like, imagine if Green Room came out today, people would be like, this is too on the nose. but at the time, it felt like, you know, more of a warning bell. I think some people think that that movie is awful. I like that movie a lot. The more I watch it, I've seen it maybe three times now, and every time I've watched it, I've liked it better than the previous time.

I watch it with, you know, my hands up around my eyebrows and my shoulders up to the, you know, stratosphere. It turns out I've seen Joel and more things than I thought, because I've also seen the hanged the DJ episode of Black Mirror that he was in. with Barbarian star Georgina Campbell, actually. So that's a... Every once in a while, you'll go back into an old Black Mirror episode and be like, oh, right, like, all of these people were in it. He's also a Skins guy, but after I...

Not after I'd stopped watching Skins. I stalled on Skins in the second season because I was waiting to watch it with my sister because we were both super into Skins, and I was... American Skins or UK Skins? Somebody was described to me as a Skins actor recently, And I fully was thinking that it was UK, and they meant that it was U.S. I was like, ooh, what?

Oh, that's interesting. Because U.S. skins did not last. No, it was a season. It was garbage. But he was also in Peky Blinders, a show that I have not watched. But after watching this movie, I'm like, yeah, I could see him in Peky Blinders. And Gangs of London. Like, yeah, ditto.

Yep. Okay. Worst for me. Good actor, especially because he has to. This character is so stupid. in this movie. Like, it could not be more, um, both characters that he's playing. It feels like dress-up villain.

Oh, very much so. Very much so. And, like, there's a whole plot point about the size of this rapist's penis that, like, comes into the movie that just feels really, I was surprised that this movie is PG-13. That's crazy to me. Yeah. It is. movie opens, like, the montage of it is, you know,

Chiwitz-Legia4, looking very pensively outside of car, windows, cut against this woman being brutalized. And it's edited in a way where you don't see anything technically, which I guess is like, well, you know, you don't see anything, so that's why it's not an R, but it's like, you know what's going on. They still probably would edit it for TV. Yes. It's very unsettling.

It's very disturbing. I don't understand why, you know, whatever, we can go into the soapbox thing about like the kinds of things that get our ratings and the kinds of things that don't. But anyway, do you think... There's usually a movie that's this pallid is not as upsetting as this movie can sometimes be very... I also like the idea that like, well, we're going to try and get the PG-13 rating because the teens are going to really want to come to see this movie. Right, right. Do you think at any point in this movie, Nicole Kidman sat down with Joe Cole and it's just like, listen, I understand the nose thing.

it's very difficult. This is just... I'm surprised you brought this up, sir. Well, listen, I at least, if we're going to give Nicole Kidman all the grief about buy a nose, then I at least want her to be able to use that experience

to, you know, connect with the younger generations. And, you know, I just imagine a nice conversation on set where she just sits him down and it's just like, listen, when this movie is nominated for, you know, 10 Oscars or whatever, they're going to really try

and knock you down about the nose thing. And I want you to just know that this is you underneath that prosthetic. This is, you know, you are not your prosthetic nose. And your value is greater than the piece of putty that they have slapped on the end of your face in this movie. And it's a real, it's a real boiled potato at the end of his face in this movie, Chris. It's, they just sort of smack it right on there. It's kind of a boiled potato movie, unfortunately. I also love the idea, by the way, that, like, Ray, that the Shuechella

of four character, who spent 13 years going through mugshots upon mugshots of anybody who's in the system to see if they found this guy, settles on this Beckwith person, the Marshall Mathers. And,

you know, comes to Nicole Kidman with it as proof, 2015 Nicole Kidman, as proof. And she's like, well, his nose and eyes are different. And he's like, yeah, well, like, clearly he's like, you know, got out of, because this guy had done time for stealing cars or whatever, and that's why he was able to,

he's like, well, he got out of, he got, before he got popped, he, you know, clearly got his nose and, and eyes sort of cosmetically altered so that we wouldn't be able to recognize him from the, um, from the 2002 crime. And it's like, yeah, this guy with like no greater criminal affiliation. It's not like he's part of like some like, you know, Bulgarian crime syndicate or whatever. He's just like a guy who is, you know, bumping around or whatever. He's absolutely going to be able to afford to have major plastic surgery on his face to hide. Like, that's not how these things work. Like, that to me is a flawed premise from the very beginning.

And it's, whatever, they gloss over it because otherwise you wouldn't have a movie. And it's like, I get it. I understand how, you know, junkie plots work. But still, I was like, this guy's getting a, you know, cosmetic surgery, nose job, eye job, or whatever to evade capture. like that is... And a bunch of tattoos. It's not like his father's like, you know, Transylvanian royalty or anything like that.

Like, Jesus Christ. Well, we should also mention because the convolutions of getting to the end of this movie, it's not in the plot description. Marzen is the key suspect in Jess's daughter's rape and murder, but they won't investigate him because he is an informant for... a terrorist This terrorist cell

that's operating out of this mosque that was right next to where the dumpster that they found Carolyn, the daughter. Also,

and this is how like Michael Kelly is involved. And Alfred Molina. Yes. For Alfred Molina in this movie, who is unfortunately

not good, but is tasked with the like the sole weight of how we're going to tie this allegory together in the scenes

where he's barking at Chewittology O'Four. Yeah. Yeah, you're right. And then just disappearing, and you see him in the background on like a billboard running for mayor. Oh, I missed that. Oh, okay. That's interesting. Yeah, you're supposed to, I guess, draw the line of American corruption there.

Also, while I'm logicking this case to death, the fact that, like, she's, the daughter is found in the dumpster at, like, noon. And she was last seen by Julia Roberts, that morning. like the time window and she was seen even later than that or like even later than that on the phone right with ray because ray was going to meet her at the bakery to plan julia's surprise party so like the window for her getting like raped and murdered abducted and brutalized her like body bleached to avoid you know whatever leaving incriminating evidence dumped in a dumpster discovered in a dumpster and then calling the police and the police least coming down, all happens within, I swear to God, like two and a half hours. And that is an insanely compacted time frame. Like, it's just like, I don't, I don't understand how that all happens unless the actual commission of the crime was making so much noise that somebody had overheard, but like, that's not what they say in this. It's just like she's like discovered and it, I don't know, I don't know. That to me also was like, you saw her this morning. She hadn't

been, like, missing for, like, days or anything like that. It was... Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I think the plot of this movie could have taken another couple of revisions of somebody being like, is there any less incredulous way we could do this? But, anyway.

Also, they work in a counterterrorism unit. I understand that this is a parking garage next to a mosque, but why would they be on site? It's because they were surveilling this particular mosque. I think that was their operation was whatever was going that they had been like working on was all like they wouldn't be the ones going to the body sure but I think that's like that's the thin peg that they sort of that the story that the movie sort of like like lands it out but yes um all flimsy all flimsy um I will say I think of all the people in this movie who I think are doing a good job I think Dean Norris is really really good in this movie in this role. of like the whatever third banana. I'm trying to think of other examples. I was trying to think of this earlier. Other examples.

Your name is bumpy. His name is bumpy. He's sort of, he's the non-glamorous one on the team, but he's like, he's obviously the one who like, if anyone's going to break their leg going after this guy, it's going to be this guy. You know what I mean?

There's a whole chase through Dodger Stadium. Right. Which you can absolutely tell that they repurpose this movie from shooting in Boston to suddenly we're going to shoot in L.A. yes um that scene apparently was a scene at a soccer match in the original that scene one of the few ones that like actually does transfer over from that to this yes and they they basically wholeheartedly steal this long tracking shot from the original movie yeah that starts with the stadium in the distance and then yes the camera somehow zooms into the stadium

and i will say that's an exciting sequence i thought of all the of all the things in this movie that I didn't like, I thought that was a pretty exciting sequence. If I didn't know that it was lifted wholeheartedly from the original movie, I would be more thrilled by that shot. Speaking of scenes that are lifted wholeheartedly from other things, there's a moment at some point in this movie, and I think it's in the early, the 2002 storyline, right? Where Chouetto, whatever, Ray, is trying to convince Kidman's character whose name is Claire to, that they need to push through this investigation, even though the powers that be are trying to stop them. and he's being very sort of, like, you know, demonstrative about this. And at one point, she, like, goes to walk past him, and he grabs her arm to, like, pull her back. And he, like, rips open her blouse as he, like, accidentally, like, rips open her blouse as he turns around.

And I'm like, that's just that scene from friends that one time, where Phoebe's trying to seduce Chandler. And Joey, like... And she says, this is my bra. Yeah, well, and Joey's like, no, you got to show him your bra. And she's like, oh, what? And he, like, flops open her. her blouse in one fell swoop and yes that's exactly what that moment reminded me of

so stealing from all sorts of sources this movie I don't think the actors are at fault here and it's almost I mean no nobody's giving a bad performance no I don't think Alfred Molina is good in this movie unfortunately he's given especially bad like he's

material but yes he's certainly not overcoming it I think yeah his scenes also feel like they exist in a vacuum from the rest of the movie, too. What do you think of... I think Julia Roberts is kind of especially good in a way. Maybe she doesn't pull the twist off, but, you know...

I think she does okay. I think she does okay. What do you feel... Okay, so I have particular sort of high, low feelings on a scene like the one in which she goes up and sees her daughter in the dumpster, and she has the huge break. break down and she climbs into the dumpster and whatever, where I don't know if an actor can win in that scene. I think the best an actor can do is sort of break-even because you are asking them to go so big. And the movie has to match it. The moment on paper, like, calls for that,

right? This is this woman's daughter. She's just finding out. This is this horrible moment. It's the worst moment of her life, she, her reaction, it's hard to say that that reaction is too big for that circumstance. Not in a world where Sean Penn's performance in Mystic River exists. Well, this is, and I put that in the same bucket, right? Where it's just like, you look at that and you're just like, well, that reaction from a person makes sense to me. And yet unavoidably, it also sort of takes me out of the scene and just like, oh, what did

Julia Roberts have to do to work herself up into this state? Like, what, like, did she go into this movie being like, I know I've got to nail this? This has got to be the biggest, you know, emotional, whatever I've ever done. And it just feels like an actor is never going to, in a moment like that, impress me as much as they're just going to, like, get out of that moment with their dignity intact, if that makes sense. I mean, I think she does get out of that moment. I think she does, too. I think scenes like that are so, I mean, like, obviously actors have to go to extraordinary lengths and have to really, you know, kind of leap into that type of scene. But like I said, I think it's more, the movie around them has to support that actor better by being good.

I don't know. I think that kind of limitation that you're discussing is more on the movie's shoulders than the performer's shoulders. And I think the idea of this big emotional show from an actor being what sells a moment like that is wrong. Yeah. On a filmmaking level, if a creator is approaching it that way, like we're just going to rely on. And we are in the dumpster with her. That's the other thing. It's not going to work.

The camera is like right in there with her. It's right up close. I want to talk about Billy Ray maybe for a second. This is maybe the time to talk about Billy Ray, since we're talking about directorial choices. Only has directed three movies, three feature films, shattered glass, breach, and then Secret in Their Eyes. He directed a few episodes of a failed Amazon pilot called The Last Tiger. Coon of which I watched the premiere episode of. I guess that must have made it to series at some point if he's credited with multiple

episodes, but I don't remember that show doing much of anything, even though it is based on M.F. Scott Fitzgerald work, and it did star Matt Bowmer and Kelsey Grammer, the, you know, obviously logical pairing of Matt Boomer and Kelsey Gramer. He also directed, though, the Comey Rule, the Showtime miniser. is the coming rule that I would not touch with a 10-foot pole in the year 2020 as we were approaching the election and I was just like, I do not need more Donald Trump in my life. But I liked both wild that everyone else agreed with you. Yes.

I liked both shattered glass and breach a lot, but he's also much better known, not better known, but like he's even more so. His career is more prolific as a writer. Yeah, he wrote that Jody Foster movie, Flight Plan. He wrote the screenplay for the American. version of State of Play. A lot of these are written are co-writing credits, which I imagine are he did a version of a screenplay

and somebody else also did a version of a screenplay. Bureaucracy thrillers. Yeah. State of Play is a good example where the screenplay credits are Matthew Michael Carnahan, Tony Gilroy, and Billy Ray. I don't imagine any of the three of them worked in tandem with any of the other ones on that. I think those are three different passes at a script.

Because he's sort of... That's a movie that we've done an episode on, could not tell you single thing that we sure uh captain phillips though is a is a great example of a screenplay of his uh that's another one where uh he's got a screenplay credit and um oh no he has the sole screenplay credit it's the only other writers i'mdb does that they credit other writers but it's the books that it was adapted from right um what else richard jule he was a writer on i know that's right. Like Richard Jewel, Terminator, Dark Fate, Gemini, Man is not a great 2019 triple header for Billy Ray. Well, I just need to know in Richard Jewel, the one good thing

about the movie is, was it Billy Ray's decision or was it Clint Eastwood's decision to incorporate the muckering? That is true. That's a good point. But he's sort of, he's a, he's a guy who you sort of call upon in the business if you have a project that you want to sort of hand it to a trusted screenwriter. He's the guy who adapted the first Hunger Games movie, which was obviously a big project and was based on a very popular book.

I do always go back to Shattered Glass, though, which I think is a tremendously written movie and a very well-directed movie, actually. I think that movie is so incredibly watchable. I think he does...

Every cast member is terrific. I was going to say, like, he does a really good job with that cast in terms of having everybody sort of working towards, because the tone of that movie is actually, we got to do Chatterglass at some point soon. I keep waiting for, like, I want to do it with a guest, though, because I feel like that would be a good movie to do with a guest. And I feel like I've talked about this movie with other people, prospective guests.

Got to get a guest that wants to do. I think we do. I think we have multiple ones. I just have to remember which ones talk to me about it. But that's a movie with a really particular tone. And he really nails it, where it's this. sort of a little bit takes on the perspective of something. It makes you want to fall for Stephen Glass's whole bit, right?

It makes you understand why people did, while at the same time making you absolutely sympathize with Chuck Lane and his sort of outrage when he finds out that, you know, not only has this guy been making up all these articles, but like all these people are lining up behind him to defend him because they just like him better. And people maybe sleep on just how good that movie is. And, yeah, we got to talk about it soon.

But anyway, so Billy Ray is generally somebody who, if I see his name attached to something, even if it's something that's, you know, oh, Gemini, man, you know what I mean? But it's just like, oh, Billy Ray. Well, because lately he's gotten attached to a lot of franchises. Not that he didn't do franchises, because he's also one of the people credited to The Hunger Games.

I imagine the four or five people credited. He's also one of the people who keeps getting attached to that adaptation of Devil in the White City that Scorsese and DeCaprio want to produce that, like, just... And then it was Todd Field, and now that has fallen through. It keeps falling through. It's just like, it's a cursed project. And who knows if it's ever going to exist as a movie, as a TV show, as a whatever. He's also developing a miniseries that is currently listed on IMDB as Untitled Capital Assault Project. I love you, Billy, but I'm also going to probably take a pass on that one.

That's going to be a hardcore. pass not watching that. Yeah. So, sorry. But generally, I respect this guy's talent and I enter a movie like Secret in Their Eyes in general, sort of hopeful that he's able to knock this one out too. Because like this feels, talk about breach a little bit because I think breach is a even better comparison for this movie than Shattered Glass in terms of like, I think the best version of this movie comes out closer to what Breach did, right? That's probably true. I haven't seen Breach in a while.

It's a showcase for Chris Cooper, mostly. That's how I remember it. Opposite Ryan Philippi? Yes. Yep. Fantastic. Let's get Ryan Philippi in something. I feel like Chris Cooper got a little bit of awards attention for a breach or a little bit of buzz, right? Yes, but again, that was another movie.

That was a spring thing, though, like, Tours. the end of the year, he was still in conversation, especially after already being an Oscar winner at that point. Yeah. But it just did not happen. Breach is one of those movies where it's like, who was the female lead in Breach? Because...

Laura Linney. Oh, fuck, yeah. Right? Yeah. You're right. No, thank you for remembering. I was like, it was a Joe Allen. We had just talked about Drew Allen, but no. Laura Linney. Yeah. We haven't, have we done a movie, a Laura Lenny movie, and hold, please. I feel like we maybe haven't done...

We haven't had this conversation in some time, and I really would like to have a Laurelitty conversation. We've only done three Laura Linney movies. The latest was The House of Mirth. We've done Hyde Park on Hudson, hand jobs on Hudson, the fifth, the state, and the House of Murth. So we are probably due for another line extravagance. Especially because she's going to win an Oscar this year for her collaboration with Ina Garden. Those Sony Classics did pick up this movie that they are saying is a comedy.

Now, it feels like the type of thing that Sony Classics would be like, this is us going to bring Laura Linney back to the Oscars, but it could also just be a light comedy. Wait, I'm looking this up because I want to get the title of it. This is... It's her, Maggie Smith, and someone else. Is this... Hold on.

She's got a few movies. Now that she's sort of passed the Ozark portion of her career, which, God bless, I believe when people say that she was tremendous in that, because, like, obviously she would be. My husband would watch that show, and I would just, like, stop in the room whenever I could tell she was delivering some type of monologue, and then I would leave again. Yes, you're talking about the Miracle Club, which stars. great perfect title maggie smith laura lini kathy bates stephen ray kathy bates stephen ray in a rare non-neal jordan project um the log line for it oh plot unknown well it's fancy that mystery box is expected in 2023 i imagine this is going to be a tiff title fingers crossed if it's if it's slated first law i would love to breathe the same oxygen as laura

Oh, my God. Tell me about it. Okay. Oh, wait. No, there is a storyline that's just provided by somebody else. Let's see. All right. This is a paragraph. So hold on a second. Ahem. This starts fantastic. Bally Format, Ireland, 1960. Sold. I'm in. That's right. This is an Irish thing. A hard knocks community in outer Dublin marches to its own beat, rooted in traditions of loyalty, faith, and togetherness. There's just one tantalizing dream for the women of Bally Format to taste freedom and escape the a gauntlet of domestic life to win a pilgrimage to the sacred French town of lords. Now I'm remembering this plot. Yes. And with a little benevolent interference from their cheeky and rebellious priest, close friends,

Lily, Eileen, Dolly, and Sheila are the lucky few to win this ticket of a lifetime at their riotous local raffle night. This is Catholic 80 for Brady is what this is. This is 80 for Brady, but with the Virgin Mary and Lords. Like, that is what's going on. The shot in the fountain when a Hugh Jackman is just, like, launched into the stars. That's everything that's happening in my brain right now. Oh, my God. I'm going to lose my mind for this.

So, so excited for this movie. Catholic 80 for Brady, except, you know, not centered around supporting a Trump photo. No, that's what I mean. Well, yes, exactly. No, our Lady of Lords is famously liberal. Um, so yes, I'm excited. Uh, this is a very, um, Joe and I are tastes combining, converging, and becoming one. Because for me, it's like actresses doing stuff in European countries, and for Joe, Catholicism.

I also like actresses doing stuff in things. You don't get to take actresses. You don't get to claim that one of the two of us, you lunatic. Jesus Christ. Yeah, but it's in my actual, like, bloodstream. Okay, all right, all right. We're not going to play the who's gayer than who in this podcast game. All right. I'm not, that's not at all what I'm saying. I'm just saying, you know.

Anyway, anyway. Keep it movie. The secret in their eyes. Yes. Or secret in their eyes. Get that definite article the fuck out of here. That has no place in America. Our movie is cool.

We don't have a thaw. Yes, exactly. Gritty reboot, secret in their eyes. I just want to pose the question. Yes, let's pose the question. What is this elusive secret? What is this eponymous titular? Who's the they?

Who's the they? Whose eyes are giving away this secret? Tammy Faye. This is Alyssa's secret. And Alyssa's secret is in her eyes. That would actually be a rusical next year is Alyssa's secret in their eyes. But it's the same plot as the secret in their eyes, but it's a rousical. Wait, all right, now it's the time to talk about Julia Roberts and her bangs in this movie.

Because obviously, her character is going through it. And I love that the, like, stylistic choice made for this movie is... She is told at one point, you look like you're a million years old. Yes. And it's like, damn. It is at the end of the movie after she is confessed to killing this guy. And it's just like, he's not entirely wrong. But, like, the choice that they have made for this movie to communicate the fact that this woman is going through it is bangs, which I don't disagree with, because bangs on Julia Roberts just do seem odd, right?

Like, they seem out of place. I feel like I'm destabilized. I'm watching this. They're also, like... They seem like a conscious choice, a character... And they're not like... choice whenever her bangs appear in a film. They're not, like, demure bangs either in this movie.

They are, like, very voluminous and, like, just, like, it just... They could cut glass. Yes. And, well, the bangs that could really cut glass are her bangs. The Mother's Day. In Mother's Day, which genuinely, like, she goes to the salon once a month and has a laser just sort of, like, zoop over the front of her face. Austin Powers.

And that's how she gets her hair cut in that movie, because there is... A laser bowl cut. There is, yes, 100, it just goes all the way around, and that's her hair in Mother's Day. That is a movie I saw in the movie theater, and I don't regret it. I haven't seen it. Also, a movie with a good blooper reel at the end, because there's a moment in the movie where, who is it? Now I got to look up the goddamn cast for Mother's Day. because somebody is her secret daughter in that movie,

and I, for the life of me, can't remember now who it was. Me. Is it Jennifer Aniston? That can't be true. No. No, it's not. I was trying to remember whether it was, like, different timelines, but no, that's not Mother's Day. Is Mother's Day just like every plot of second act, but not as good?

No, I was thinking of something else. No, Mother's Day is very much in the Valentine's Day. vein of just like eight billion characters and um mother's day 20s was it you that hasn't seen second act no i just didn't see it for a while i eventually did see second act um second act perfect playing movie oh right it's britt robertson um is that sure um yeah everything takes place in the same timeline of this movie i don't know why i was thinking that it was hopping timelines um but there's a moment there where julia roberts and britt robertson are having their sort of confrontation, and Julia takes the longest pause in the history of anything.

And there's a moment in the blooper reel where she's taking this pause and the train goes by. And they have to, like, stop because, like, she's, like, in the middle of this, like, contemplative thing and just, like, the train whistle comes through. And it's just, like, that probably should have made the movie because it's, uh, it's, it's, it's, Exactly, that's exactly the vibe of just like, why is she taking so long to make this pause? Yeah, her hair in that movie. I don't think it's just the bangs that designate that this character is going through it. This is also one of those movies that it's like, woman is going through it. What do we do?

We put her in a giant cardigan. Yeah, yes. To signify that is true. And like, there's at least one scene where she's in some giant gray cardigan that looks like it. was collected, you know, dust bunnies from underneath a sofa and then thrown on someone and magically there a cardigan now. Made a wish on the blue fairy or whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

There is a proverbial cardigan that follows her around. An emotional cardigan? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. A, yeah, an existential cardigan that exists in this movie. Yeah, I mean, and the movie kind of like sort of sets her aside for a while. and sort of is just like, you go be grieving and we're going to go solve this case or whatever. And it keeps bringing up, it foreshadows itself a lot, where it's just like, you can't be involved in this case or else it will totally, you know, nothing will be admissible because you will be, you'll have a conflict of interest in all this sort of stuff. And ultimately, of course, by the end, she is going to be the only person who is going to carry out justice in this movie.

but um but her carrying out of justice is not really justice right this is another thing too because like it's supposed to be you know critique of post 9-11 you know corruption government whatever she keeps this guy in a prison cell in her barn but we don't really know like he looks like shit but like We're only seeing him, we're only seeing their interaction of her bringing him food. So it's like she's feeding this guy. Right. But there's no question of torture happening. And if you want to talk about 9-11 and you don't talk about torture.

Right. Like, what are you critiquing? Right. Right. Well, he mentions when he walks in, the thing that he says to Ray, when Ray sort of finds him in there. And he's sort of like, it takes him a second to be able to form words because he's been and there's so long, but he's like, will you ask her to speak to me? And so clearly, like, one of the sort of, like, psychological tortures of the fact that just

like, yeah, she may feed him, but like, he might not know who she is or doesn't know. Or just like the fact that, like, you are, it's been 13 years and nobody has spoken to you. You know what I mean? It's like it's, there is a tortures aspect to that. There is no in-story explanation for why she has this barn, right? No. It's like, they never talk about. her like... Because it's quiet out there, she says. It's quiet out there. Yeah, but like, it's not

like she has like hogs or chickens. You know what I mean? Or like anything to like keep a cover story as to why she would have this giant barn in her yard and like nobody questions it and you know, whatever she keeps to herself. Also earlier in the movie, we're told to believe that it's unlikely that he did all of this physical stuff to her daughter, at least alone, which made me think i was like is this a group conspiracy type of thing i did kind of expect my true detective brain there was just like oh god like something there's some sort of cult uh but then it's like but then how is it possible that julia roberts is doing this then if it's not as possible for him to have you know physically done all this with this body how is she getting him uh-huh without anyone seeing

alone. I did kind of expect for them to have the second layer of the shock be that Kidman had been helping her the whole time, but they'd never pull the trigger on that. Nicole Kidman in this movie. Yeah, let's talk about Nicole. This is not the strongest Nicole Kidman era. No. Well, she gets a... People talking about eras. Well, she gets an Oscar nomination the same year, though, for Lion, in which I think she is quite good. The next year is lion. Oh, you're right. You're right.

I always want to place it in 2015, but it's not. You're right. It's not till the next year. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, you could loop the paper boy in this, but 2010, after Rabbit Hole onto, until Lion. Read them out. A lot of her failures are there.

I think she's amazing in Stoker. I like Stoker. Yeah, I think she's very good in Stoker. She's very over the top. There's things like Grace of Monaco. Right. Before I go to sleep. She's the villain in Paddington.

But like... She's good in Paddington. For as much as I think people go overboard with how much they love Paddington, I think she's good in. But like the real Paddington love didn't happen until the second movie. But you're right. Like, there's a lot of, like, movies that she makes that don't ever become of anything. Like Queen of the Desert, the Werner Herzog movie, that is a... Is that the one about...

Jesus? No, the one about Jesus has E. McGregor. Yes. Okay. As Jesus and Satan. This is the one with Robert Pattinson plays T.E. Lawrence. That's the one I'm thinking of. Queen of the Desert would be an interesting title for a movie about Jesus. I'm not that I'm

thinking about it. I just saw whatever, whatever. We're going past it. Queen of the Desert, the Jesus Rusical. All right. Roo, we've got your next two Rusicals all planned out. You don't have to think about anything until season 18. The secret in their eyes and Jesus.

Yeah, what was Strangerland? That's another one where her... I believe that's an Australian production. Oh, then nobody's ever going to know about it. It's also interesting that this whole portion of her career is before... I mean, ahead of big little lies, there is also, you know, working with Jorgos Lathemos. there's working with Sophia Coppola

you know she gets back into focusing on directors which she has always kind of done in her career right but she ends up doing big little lies and then becomes you know a prestige TV performer in addition to being now she's getting back into movies I'm hoping well thank God

and uh the same is true about her two co-stars in this movie Julia Roberts is done gaslit which no one really watched. And Chilatiofor has done multiple TV things at this point, but... Julia had just done before this movie came out, before Secret in Their Eyes came out,

had just done the normal heart on HBO for Ryan Murphy. She had taken the role that Ellen Barkin had won a Tony for just recently for the normal heart. And so Julia sort of takes this role. And like Ellen Barkin, and I love that she won that Tony, but like Ellen Barkin is big and loud in that stage production that I saw of the normal heart and and so I was like what and like Julia doesn't really I don't think you know she can't match that and she shouldn't try to match that on TV I think she's good I think a lot of

people thought I think a lot of people because of the Barkin Tony Award thought that Julia was going to sort of march to an Emmy Award for that movie I think sometimes people when people assume that like oh well it's Julia Roberts she's obviously going to win She's obviously going to remember when she was on Broadway and people were like, well, they're going to give her a Tony because she's Julia Roberts. And it's like... And she got bad reviews. She got bad reviews. Right. She didn't get bad reviews in the normal heart, but she did lose the Emmy to Kathy Bates for American Horror Story. So that was the particular role that she won for. I'm glad Kathy Bates won for that. for something for American Horror Story because she's been so good across so many of those. But it's funny that that was the particular role

that she won for. She'll tell Egy of Four after this. He's already an Oscar nominee for this movie from 12 Years of Slave. But on top of doing, was it Apple that did that TV show that I think you watched and kind of liked? And I was like, I'm interested in this

and that no one cared. But he also did the TV movie that was, who directed this with Anne Hathaway, that was like the pandemic, TV movie that is just like, everyone's like, please scrub this off of the earth. Probably no fault of the act. Wait, what's the thing that you said that I watched and liked and... Let me look.

Is it the man who fell to Earth? Oh, I never watched that. Who was I talking to that watched that then? Wasn't me. But he's also become somewhat of a franchise guy. After this, he joins the MCU. Well, he was one of the like 20 people who was in the Martian also in 22. She was in that good Craig Zobo movie that nobody saw called Zee for Zachariah.

That was him. Zee for Zachariah is a good movie. It was. Margo Robbie's really good in that. He's really good. Chris Pine's really good. It's sort of a three-hander movie, and I really liked that one. Yeah, he joins the MCU.

He's such a great actor, but we got to get him in great stuff again. Speaking of Jesus shit, he was in the just absolutely unseen. Garth Davis movie Mary Magdalene where We should talk about Rooney we should because like I was I was kind of eagerly anticipating that one I was like oh this is going to be big for Rooney Mara Every time I anticipate a biblical movie I wind up with

I got my face like it truly And there's another one coming up Where like I think the next Malik movie Is about Jesus Whenever that comes out Yes it's supposed to be about Jesus Son of Saul Gesheu Roig's Yes

But like, and I'm going to probably And I'm going to probably, you know, put Oscar hopes on that one too And I'm going to end up probably being wrong about that one But like that Mary Magdalene movie was like delayed for at least a year, maybe two years It was a Weinstein co movie There we go And it ended up right when everything came out about a Harvey Weinstein So it got kind of shoved around until IFC half released it

But so the cast though was Rooney Mara's Mary Magdalene. A casting that seemed so wrong that I wanted to see it because I was like, I want to see how this turns out. Joaquin Phoenix is Jesus. Is this how they got together? Grant Davis's follow up. But, I mean, like that movie does still have a huge cultural imprint

that picture of Rooney Mara smoking at the foot of a crucified bloody Jesus. Yeah, I wouldn't trade that for the world. But Chuitel plays Jesus, or plays Peter. in that movie and Tahar Rahim as Judas actually That is Quite a cast

And apparently it is a movie that is deeply fine We gotta do it at some point We gotta talk about it Greg Frazier cinematography Like You know Come on now Come on

What else was Shulatel doing around That sort of late teens Sort of era Triple Nine Which was that movie Was that the one With Kate Winslow it? Yes. As the Russian mob, maybe. Right. Never saw it, but like...

Maybe Bulgaria and something. Worth checking out probably just for this. I am out on Hillcoat until I am told I absolutely have to see a John Hillcoat movie again. I did end up because it was a Netflix movie and I was at a job where I was watching a lot of direct-to-netflix stuff. The Joshua Marston movie comes Sunday and I love Joshua Marston. He was the guy who directed Maria Full of Grace and also followed that up with Forgiveness of Blood, which nobody really talked about, but I thought it was a tremendous movie.

It's so good. It really is incredibly good. So I was very, very much like a Joshua Marston guy, and come Sunday is this movie where Shwell Egeophore plays a preacher who is sort of ostracized by his church.

It's okay. But Netflix never put it in theaters, right? No, they did not. So it is more TV movie. yes um it was it was okay um yeah i don't know like great actor he was in the old guard speaking of stuff that was direct to netflix the gene of prince bythwood movie um in a way that like his role was the one that sort of like pointed the way towards there could be other old guard movies and he is uh scheduled to be in the old guard too whenever they end up making that so

That seems good, at least, that, like, that's, like, you know, sequel-y stuff that seems a little more, I don't know. I know it's based on a comic book or whatever, but it feels like a little less beholden to some sort of, like, giant, you know, overarching project, you know what I mean? Right. Okay, so you bring up comic books. Comic books also play a part in this movie in a weird way that didn't,

it's supposed to it's supposed to be indicated as like a clue to non-martial Mathers Jokel and it leads them to the Dodger's stadium based off of like

the colors of the team That's right that's the one where Dean Norris is like I figured it out this guy's obsessed with baseball by reading the comic that's right because the bad guy had the San Francisco Giants colors of orange and black yes Yes, classic villain colors, orange and black, tell your husband, Cincinnati Bengals are now the villains of the AFC.

Did you see the pod generation, though, before we get off of Chouettele for a second? No, everyone said it was horrible. Oh, did they really? I was trying to, I didn't talk to anybody who had seen that at Sundance. They said it was horrible. I was interested to see it. The people that I talked to really hated it. Now I want to see it even more.

But I've missed it. in the fucking five movies that I got to see at Sundance this year, I'm still mad about it. Okay, so I want to dip back into the 2009 foreign language film race because I do think it's interesting. This is the one where The Secret in Their Eyes wins, and I don't know if anybody, if nobody saw it coming, but like the conversation was not on the Secret in Their Eyes during this Oscar campaign. This felt like it was a two-movie race by the time the Oscar nominations came out. I think most people were looking at the white ribbon, which had played can. Had won, Cam? It got the palm, yes.

The jury president that year was Isabella Pair. There we go. Well, the fix was in. And... Talk to James Gray about that. James Gray apparently has talked shit about Isabella Pair as a jury president. Oh, really? In what way that she was like, a painting the ass?

I think he called her, like, a dictator or something. I mean, a lot of people... This is the era of also, you know, I know, Isabella Pair, they were like, of course, she's going to give it to Michael Hanukkah, and you have Sophia Coppola winning the Golden Lion. In the next year. Tarantino was the president. Yeah. The era of heavy-handed can jury presidents where narratives were crafted off of who gave it to who.

Yeah. The Somewhere one, I have no objection to that whatsoever. And I understand the white ribbon one. The white ribbon one was like embraced over the globe. Like, at the time, people were saying that it was Hanukkah's best movie. I really don't agree with that as someone who loves Hanukkah's work. I haven't even seen most of Hanukkah's work. But, like, as somebody who has seen Cashay, like, that seems crazy to me that people would...

Yeah, Cashay is his best movie. It's phenomenal. And then, if I also feel like if people knew that Amor was coming a few years down the road, that, like, you know, you couldn't have told Isabelle Huper to do anything she didn't want to do. But, like, I think most people would have been like, well, wait to give me to do it. I mean, I think white to give me to do it. I mean, I think white ribbon. probably set the stage for something like Amor, which is closer to his sensibility.

Not that the white ribbon is some about face to the type of, you know, style and approach that he has with material. But it was seen at the time as, you know, this is still the guy who is known for the piano teacher in funny games. And they, this was seen as a way of this, you know, really respected, lauded filmmaker making something that would be to the Academy's taste. And it ultimately was, it also gets a cinematography nomination. I was going to say it got a cinematography nomination, which is why most people thought it was going to win foreign language film, even though a prophet was also there. And a prophet was a hugely acclaimed movie, Jacques O'Diard's film.

That was the French submission. So I want to sort of, I would vote for a prophet. I jotted this down because I wanted to sort of like remind myself of how this. foreign language film race sort of evolved over the course of award season, because you go to the Critics Awards, and I had totally forgotten this, but that Olivier Assayas's summer hours had won both New York film critics and Los Angeles film critics, best foreign language film. And like, the white ribbon was the runner up at L.A., but like the runners up in New York were broken embraces, the Almodivar movie Broken Braces, which true to form, Spain did not submit,

as their movie for the Oscar. And there was a movie called Everlasting Moments from Sweden that I never saw. National Border Review had the White Ribbon as one of their five recognized movies. The other ones were

movies that I don't remember hearing of. The maid, not necessarily they don't remember hearing of, but I didn't see any of these ones. The Maid, Revenge, the Song of the Sparrows, and Three Monkeys. The Golden Globes gave theirs to the White Ribbon. Their nominees were

Baria, this movie from Italy, Broken Embraces, the El Mold of Our movie, The Maid, which was a Chilean movie, and then a prophet. So again, the White Ribbon and a Prophet, as the season went on, those two movies became like the movies to sort of focus on.

Bafta... Both distributed by Sony Classics. Right. Bafta gave their best film not in the English language to A Prophet. White Ribbon was a nominee. their other nominees were Broken Embraces Cocoa before Chanel

and let the right one in actually was nominated so nice genre showing there for Beftus. So Secret in the Rise did not did not show up anywhere until

really the Oscars, the Oscar list. And I just don't think most people were looking at it. I also brought up though the list of all of the movies that were submitted by their countries. And like,

beyond the white, like, the white ribbon and a prophet were the big ones. Like, uh, shortlist ones were a movie from Australia called Samson and Delilah, a movie from, which got a lot of attention. A movie from Bulgaria called the world is big

and salvation lurks around the corner. Uh, and also the world is fake. And, uh, wait, now I can't even remember. I think I believe it. Yes. What was the, who told him the world was fake. Now I can't... An ostrich. An ostrich.

God. How quickly these things fall out of my head. A movie from Kazakhstan called Kaleen and a movie from the Netherlands called Winter and War Time. So that was the nine film, the short list. But, like, more interesting movies could have showed up. Like, the Bong Joon-Ho movie Mother was South Korea's submission for the Oscar that year.

That did not make the short list. Even, I know he's, you know, a little bit of a maybe persona non-grada, but like Xavier Delaan's, I killed my mother, was Canada's submission that year. And he was... Asgar Farhadi was the Iranian submission for about Ellie, which never got U.S. distribution until years later. Yeah. So, yeah, I think beyond the, you know, the white ribbon and a prophet, and obviously a prophet gets the French submission ahead of summer hours. so Aceas doesn't even get to compete, really, which is too bad.

I think Summer Ours is a very good movie. I'm not surprised that a prophet got the submission. I think that's a much more Oscar-y movie. I think it's a very good movie. Yeah, exactly. You're not really going to go right. A prophet's pretty violent. I think it maybe had no chance because of that.

I can't imagine that Secret in Their Eyes wasn't violent. I didn't see the original version. Sure, sure. but it is much more of a, like, traditional... You can also see how it's a movie that got an American remake, too. Oh, very much so. Because of the type of thriller that it is. I think it's very funny when you see a foreign language film movie

that even, like, that has a plot where it's like, oh, well, this seems like it's a, you know, the plotier a foreign language film movie is, the more likely it's going to be to get an American remake, where it's just like, oh, can we like, you know, is there a murder in this? Is there an investigation in this? Is there something that like...

This is partly why I was going to bring up the lives of others because the lives of others, which was against Pan's Labyrinth. Famously from our intro. The, that movie, when you watch... I don't like that movie. I know that people love that movie. Lives of others.

I've still never seen it. I don't care for it. But it's opposite Pan's Labyrinth, which is another movie that is clearly embraced by the Academy and won multiple Oscars. But there is something about the sensibility of that movie that you can see how it happened that that movie beat Pan's Labyrinth, much like you can see how the sensibility of the secret in their eyes beat the white ribbon or a prophet. Right, right. Yeah, like, yes, I think that's true.

I still think it's a little bit of a surprise. I wonder how much of it came from the fact that a white ribbon and a prophet, splitting votes, and so it made the threshold a little bit lower for something like secret in their eyes to emerge. I also want to say one more thing about people who were submitted by their country but didn't make the shortlist. The Ruben Ostland movie involuntary was also on that. So there was a time when Ruben Usseland did not get the quick haul pass into the main stage for the Oscars. But anyway, I do also think, If I'm remembering correctly, it's possible that Secret in Their Eyes was distributed also by Sony Classics, so they clearly had a lot going on in that race.

Let's see. I don't see it there on their page, but like that could be... I wonder who did distribute it, though. I don't know. I also want to talk about just the other nominees that year that were the Israeli movie Ajami, which was direct. by Skandar Kopti and Yaron Shani, and then the Peruvian movie, The Milk of Sorrow from Claudio Losa.

And the only movies in this list that I did see were a prophet in the White Ribbon. Again, because they were such big deals, they were more easily accessed. Sony Classics did distribute the original secret in their eyes. There we go. And I think the next year, we've talked about the 2010 foreign language,

language race, where, like, you know, beautiful is nominated on, Iniaritu's beautiful, and then Yorgas Lanthamos's Dogtooth is nominated, Deni Villeneuve's Ancindiz. So, like, that is a very starry, you know, lineup of movies in terms of, like, directors who would cross over with, you know, great success. Obviously, Inari 2 had already crossed over by that point, but that is won by Susanna Beers in a better world. So that's another example, I think, of a more excessive. movie beating maybe less accessible movies. That's also that lineup that you just mentioned is the kind of one that people indicate to back when there was an executive committee committee for the category that would get at least one movie through to the nominations because it's like, you really, wow, the Academy at Large didn't respond to dog tooth? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

What? No. I've still never seen An Sandis, by the way, and I really, really want to. I haven't either. I've heard what the twist is. Oh, I haven't. Oh, I want to see it. I'm excited to see it. But I think then you look at the next year, right?

Where, like, obviously, there were, like, you know, movies like Agnieszka Hollins in darkness nominated in the Belgian movie Bullhead. But the fact that Ashgar Farhadi's separation wins in 2011 felt like a little bit of a turning of the tide of that trend of the, the, it's not like a separation is so incredibly spiky or difficult, but, like, that was the big critical favorite of the foreign language films that year and the fact that it did win.

And again, so then the next year is a more. And then, well, the great beauty wins in 2013. And, like, I don't like Paolo Sorrentino's whole thing. I don't like the great beauty, but, like, people did. Like, I, you know, it's not like everybody hated the great beauty. like I did. So that was a, I don't think there's anything sort of fishy about that win. And then like Ida wins in 2014.

Son of Saul in 2015, which is the movie. I know not everybody likes, but I really liked. So like I didn't really have a problem with that. Farhadi wins again in 2016 with the salesman. Fantastic Women in 2017. Roma in 2018. Parasite in 2019. Another round in 2020.

Drive my car in, 2021, and All Quiet on the Western Front in 2022. So I think you can... I'll quiet on the Western Front being a fairly obvious booger. Yes, but you look at that trend, and again, as we were talking about at the beginning of this episode, the winners show up a lot more prominently in the greater Oscar categories in conversation, and just in general, the winners on balance, and again, obviously, the most recent example is going to leave a bad taste in our mouth, but the winners on balance, I think,

are better, you know, not to, like, put my taste on everybody else's, but also, like, are more sort of supported by the critical consensus than they maybe were a decade prior. And I think that is ultimately a good direction. that this category is moving in. Also, a lot more movies that have an actual footprint, not just in, you know, Academy Awards conversations, but just in general movie-going conversations, a lot, I mean, a secret in their eyes is an example, even if it's a good movie, but a lot of these, especially, you know, you mentioned Departures, which I think is the movie that people dog on a lot as, you know,

there's bad winners in this category. But, like, departures didn't have any footprint until it was. won an Oscar. Well, I think you also just look at the filmmakers that have won in the last 10 years, and it's Michael Hanukkah and Oscar Farhadi and Sebastian Lelio and Alfonso Quaron and Bong Joon and Thomas Winterberg and Rice K. Hamaguchi. And there's, I think the sort of level of top tier autours is higher and the percentage, you know, the batting average for that is higher than it was again.

a decade ago. And I think ultimately, that's a good thing. So even beyond that, I think you have people who get nominated that catapult from that like a Yoroslant the most. Yeah. Oh, yeah, absolutely. So, yeah, I think in general, good things, good things happening for that category. I think, you know, secret in their eyes, the original secret in their eyes, what, an interesting sort of note on the road to getting into there. Well, I mean, good movie, not worth, you know, lumping with something like departures, but certainly of an era for that category. I think that's right.

I think that's right. That is no longer at the forefront. Exactly. I think that's right. What else do I want to talk about when we talk about Secret in Their Eyes? I'm going to go through my notes for a second if you have anything else you want to talk about I mean not really I think on top of the complaints

we've had about this movie there is a very like TNT vibe around this I mean TNT may know drama but I don't know for the star wattage that this movie has

and for you know the noteworthy director that it has you would think that it's a movie that is better looks better and it's just not very good. It was nominated for two NAACP Image Awards, which I do think is interesting. EGiophore was nominated for Outstanding Actor in a Motion Picture. He loses to Michael B. Jordan for Creed, which I'm glad somebody was giving Michael B. Jordan for Creed recognition because he should have been Oscar nominated that year.

He was very good. Other nominees in that category. Did you see Creed III? Not yet. I have like all of the big movies from the last month I haven't seen yet. And one of these days, I'm just going to, like, go to the theater and stay there all day and watch. Just stay all day. Get some pretzel bites. See, I thought Creed 2 was kind of bad and repetitive enough that my thought was, oh, okay, so these movies are literally going to have the same quality trajectory as Rocky movies. Sure, yeah. I think everybody assumed that. So I guess I'm just waiting on someone to tell me, no, Creed 3 is great. Go see Creed 3. I've heard a bunch of people say that Creed 3 is great. I've heard a bunch of people say that Creed 3 is great. seen it's gotten some good reviews and it's obviously making money but um i've seen enough people that i trust say that about creed three but like yeah haven't seen creed three haven't seen scream six haven't seen um i haven't seen god there's a bunch of them like i yes uh but anyway people will be mad at me i'm glad everyone's having a good time but after that fifth scream movie being so stupid and to me a complete about face to the sensibility of what

Kevin Williamson and West Craven brought to those movies and also inventing dumb ass words like requal. I'm sorry, I'm out. I'm with you at Requel.

I'm out until they get new people involved with this. I didn't love Scream 5 either. I thought I was a little puzzled as to how many people seem to really like it. I didn't hate it that much though. I think people generally have a sense

of goodwill that I completely understand towards that franchise. It's just like I don't know. Everything in that movie felt like conversations that were happening very online and not in the real world and five years before that movie even came out. And I'm like, Kevin Williamson was like pushing conversation. And even like when it's Scream 3, which like now we understand that movie better than we did at that time. But like that movie's all about like sexual abuse within the industry.

And like that's ahead of what. when that conversation would happen. Like, I don't know. I'm not willing to grant Scream 3 that degree of importance and prescience. Ultimately, I think... Sure, and I understand because it's not a movie that completely works, but, like, I do think it's a very forward-thinking franchise generally, and this one felt like...

It felt like, I don't know. Yeah. It's a movie... These... These later movies feel like they are. And obviously, the original four were all sort of in dialogue with the ones that came before it also. But this way feels like you're, you know, you're doing a film school project on the screen movies a little bit. Anyway.

And not like film Twitter and like, ugh. Yeah. I barely want to exist on film Twitter. Part of me was mad that they capitulated to fan demand and cast Hayden Panetier in, um, in Scream 6, because I was like, I get that anybody... I hope they don't waste her, though, because I do think she's fabulous in 4. I do, too. And I, but, like, it just felt like, anytime anybody caves to fan demand that way, I'm just like, you know, we'll see.

You categorically are against it. I get it, I get it. Yeah, I think it's just, I think it shows a weakness of character. Anyway, do you want to move on to the IMDP game? Yeah, let's do it. Every episode, we end with the IMDB game, where we challenge each other to guess the top four titles that IMDB says they are most known for. If any of those are television, voice-only performances, or non-acting credits, we'll mention that up front. After two wrong guesses,

we get the remaining titles. Release years is a clue. That's not enough. It just becomes a free-for-all of hints. Indeed, that's the IMDB game. All right, Chris, would you like to give or guess first? Oh, give first. I feel like we've been on a trend of only saying we'll guess first. All right. You're going to be giving. I chose benevolence. She's giving.

I know that we've been in somewhat of a cruelty state to one another with our IMTB. Oh, boy. Oh, boy. That soapbox is creaking. Is, uh, is, I don't know. All right. Julia Roberts, for Secret in Their Eyes, is fresh off of an Oscar nomination. Her first Oscar nomination since her win.

with August O'Sage County. August O'Sage County has a large cast of that cast that we haven't done before that I chose for you that will make you, I presume, very happy, is Juliette Lewis. I was going to say you're going to go for Juliette Lewis. Mostly because I think we've done IMDB games for everybody else. The Auguste O'Sage County cast. Even like Abigail Breslin. Maybe.

I don't know. But like definitely Julianne Nicholson, definitely Margo Martindale, definitely Chris Cooper. Can I just say it? Say it. You can only like one Scientologist's rule, or you can like one Scientologist rule. Juliette Lewis is always the one that I'm like, oh, but can I have two? Why? Who's your one?

Lizzie Moss. Oh, right, Lizzie Moss. Yeah, Juliette Lewis makes you want to break that rule a little bit. I'll allow it. I do love Juliette Lewis. What was the thing that I saw recently where? Oh, I was watching old... This is going to be a little bit of a tangent.

I was watching old. I love the 80s episodes on YouTube. Oh, so good. And it was... They were talking about Lisa Lisa and Cult Jam. And they would, like, talk... And Julius is one of the different celebrities they talked to who was just like, oh, my God, I love Lisa Lisa and Cult Jam.

And she was talking about, like... Okay, a huge part of my teenage life was Lisa Lisa and a cult jam. I could sing you the songs right now, but I'll spare you. one of my favorites was can you feel the beat can you feel the beat within my heart can you see my love shot through the dog Juliette Lewis loves can you feel the beat You don't understand I live for her

I want to meet you girl Highly recommended It made me fall in love with Lisa Lisa All again Okay anyway Juliette Lewis Any television No All right

I'm so excited for yellow jackets to come back. I have screeners in my inbox. They're burning a hole in my inbox. I can't wait to watch them. Anyway, um, natural born killers. Correct. Tremendous performance. The thing about Cape Fear is it's her one Oscar nomination, which tends to help in an IMD game, but it's also very long ago. But it is a Scorsese movie, so I'm going to say Cape Fear. Cape Fear, correct? Okay. Why would you have any doubt that Cape Fear would be there? I don't know. It just feels like it's, it's, I don't, I don't know if people talk about necessarily her in that movie as much anymore, even though they should.

All right, Julia Lewis. I think Strange Days is probably a little too much. I think her, the fact of her in National Lampoon's Christmas vacation is maybe a little too obscure. Um, I think Ma is a classic, but I think her role in that one is too far down the cast list. How are we going to work this out with Juliette Lewis? How are we going to get Ma versus Megan to happen? Oh, I am team. This is not my idea.

Team Ma. Team Ma. Team Ma and Ma versus Megan, for sure. All right, I'm just going to hold my breath and take a gulp and take a breath. and go ahead and sign the scroll and vote for, I guess, the other sister. Incorrect. Okay, good. Sometimes there is justice in the IMTV game.

Good, good, good, good. Okay, and I'm glad to take that strike. I'll happily take that strike. God, what were, like, the big, like, early 90s, like Juliette Lewis, starring? Gilbert Grape. What's eating Gilbert Grape? Incorrect, so you're going to get your years. Okay.

Your years are 1996 and 2013. 1996 and 2013 okay 1996 is wait strange days is 95 right I could not tell you Strange Day is 96 No it's not It's not okay

Strange Day is finally available on streaming Yeah, because like there's only that dog shit DVD out there Because of all the music in the movie Like that's the thing about music rights and movies And the way that it's made so many things unavailable It's like just don't put popular songs in your movie Strange Days was on HBO, was on HBO so often when I was in college, so I watched, that's when I watched it, was like, ton. And now I believe it's on HBO Max or Hulu. It's available again. Watch it while you can. Yeah. Wait, so what's her 19, oh, is 1996, the evening star? No. A movie we've done on this podcast. I believe this is a movie that took you a while to get for one of the.

other stars of this movie. Oh, interesting. Well, also, 2013 is August H. County. I forgot. There you go. Can't believe it took you that long. There you go. I can't believe it took in the 90s.

At this point, I do think literally everyone on the poster has been their known. Yes. Except for maybe Merrill? It's the hair spray is the musical version. And then August Hosech County is the dramatic version of everybody. Yes. Okay, so 96. She's not in, everyone says I love you, is she?

She could be, but it's not it. But it's not that. Okay. You need to go to a different genre. Not an awards movie. Horror? Yes. 96 horror.

California's too early for that. I've never seen California. Is that a horror movie? Sort of. It's like, it's, you know, killers. She and Brad Pitt are killers. Good movie. I would recommend it.

At least as I remember it, it's been a very long time since I've seen California. Oh, no. 96 horror. So that just predates teen horror. Scream is at the very end of 96. It's a very starry cast. Really? The headliner of this movie would never be in a movie like this today.

But, like, top of the A-list. Really? An A-lister. It's not like Texas chainsaw the next generation or something. Like, it's not one of those levels. No, no, no, no. Damn. Why am I, am I going to, like, be mad at myself that I didn't get this?

Also starring someone who is very buddy-buddy with the director, who is also a director himself. Oh. but this is like too early for like the Thai West the whatever that whole little group um Sam Ramey no but you're getting much warmer

Carpenter No colder colder okay um Sam Ramey warmer This is a genre movie Like you said a horror movie It's violent

it has one of our faves in it. I believe this was hard to get on our faves known for when we've had it before. All right. Is our fave of an actress? Our fave is an actress. And is she an award winner? She an Oscar winner? Not yet, but we will do what we can to make that happen. We just said about Laura Linney that we would do that. oh gosh also starring a recent uh drag race cameo performer danny treo oh oh my god this is from dusk till dawn i always forget that but that makes a ton of sense that that's yes that was at the tail end of i can't believe juliet lewis is still playing a teenager in 1996 yes she's good in that everybody's

good in that. Wait, oh, it's Salma you're talking about. Yes. We are going to work very hard. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Yes. All of your clues now in retrospect, make a ton of sense. Who else was on this recently?

Was it Salmas? I believe at one point, whenever we would have done Salma, it, maybe it was Clooney that it was, it would be very weird if this is on Clooney's known for. It would be. But, yeah, I love that movie. I think it's a great movie. I haven't seen it since I was a kid. That took me a while.

this Halloween season, watch from Dusk Till Dot. I think you will be happy with it. All right, so El Secreto desous Ojos won the Academy Award for Best Foreign Language Film at the 2009 Academy Awards. I went into the acting nominees from that year to pull a IMDB game. Choice, somehow, we have never done

an actress who got her first Oscar nomination that year. First of, I guess, two by this point. Sandy? No, it is Carrie Mulligan. Hmm. So give me that known for for Carrie Mulligan. This is going to be tricky because it's all going to be semi-recent and it's all going to kind of blur together. She did get enough awards recognition that I think an education is going to be in there, so I'll say an education.

Incorrect. Wow. I know. Surprising young woman is new, but like that's a significant enough awards trajectory, et cetera. So promising young woman? Incorrect. I swear I didn't do this on purpose. Neither of her Oscar nominations.

Interesting. This is not a Jada situation where I sort of baited you to ask to get two strikes right away. No. Yeah, very surprising, though, that both of those are not on her known for, considering Oscar nominees. I'm still mad about Jada's known for. All right. So your years are 2010, 2011, another 2011, and then 2015. One of those has to be Wall Street 2. In correct.

Based on the years. No. Not Wall Street 2. Not Wall Street 2. That was a 2010 movie, but that's not, it's not a... 2010. 201 and what? A 2015. Okay. It's 2015, far from the matter. Madden crowd? No. I think that was maybe...

No, it's suffragette. It's suffragette, yes. Suffragette, okay. Never let me go. Never let me go. Yep. Okay. So you're missing the two 2011s.

Okay. What did she do after that? She's dodged franchises and such. So, not far from Maddenkraud, but what was between... Oh, Drive. Drive, yeah. Is that the same year as shame? I am not as a position to answer.

Yes, shame. Yes, it was the same year of shame. Yes, there's you're known for. I'm shocked that Suffragette is there when her two Oscar-nominated roles are not there, but otherwise, I think that's a solid lineup. Never let me go. Shame. Drive.

Yes, I approve. All right. Fantastic. Yeah, good job, Chris. Well done. That's our episode. Listeners, if you would like more this at Oscar Buzz, you can check out the Tumblr at this had Oscar buzz. You should also follow our Twitter account at had underscore Oscar underscore Buzz and our Instagram at this had Oscar Buzz.

Chris, Chris, where can the listeners find you and your stuff? You can find me on Twitter and Letterbox at Chris V-File. That's F-E-I-L. You can find me on Twitter and letterboxed at Joe Reed, Reed, spelled R-E-I-D. We would like to thank Kyle Cummings for his fantastic artwork and Dave Gonzalez and Gavin Mevious for their technical guidance. Please remember to rate, like, and review us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Play, Stitcher, wherever else you get podcasts. A five-star review in particular really helps us out with Apple Podcasts visibility. So come back inside from your suspiciously large barn and write us something nice, won't you?

That is all for this week, but we hope you'll be back next week for more buzz. In your eyes, the light, the light, the heat, I am complete. Your eyes to see the door in, your eyes, the thousand churches, resolution.