This Had Oscar Buzz - 238 – Mary Magdalene

Episode Date: April 10, 2023

We talk about awards hopes thwarted by release date pushes, and this week is the mother of all of them. Originally intended as Garth Davis’ speedy follow-up to Lion for Thanksgiving 2017, Mary Magdalene cast Rooney Mara as the biblical woman and Joaquin Phoenix as Jesus. The film reexamines Mary Magdalene role among the disciples … Continue reading "238 – Mary Magdalene"

Uh-oh, wrong house. No, the right house. No, I didn't get that! We want to talk to Marilyn Hacks. The world will only change as we change. It is up to us. We want the people to rally to rise up. That is where it begins.

He spoke of peace. Why shouldn't she follow him? She will divide our community. You love my son, don't you? Then you must prepare yourself. For what? To lose him. Hello and welcome to the This Had Oscar Buzz podcast,

the only podcast premiering on HBO after Dark, Skinimax. Every week on this had Oscar Buzz we'll be talking about a different movie that once upon a time had Lofty Academy Award aspirations, but for some reason or another, it all went wrong. The Oscar hopes died and we're here to perform the autopsy. I am your host, Chris Fyle, and I'm here, as always, with the demon I cling to, I cling to Joe Reed.

Boy, you were not kidding with the promising the musicalness of this episode, yes. The whole time I was watching this movie, last night. I was, I was like, there's so much Gaga to reference. There's so much Andrew Lloyd Weber to reference. There's Hot Judas. There's, uh, Mary Magdalene and Jesus's the intertwined personal relationship. What else do we have? Can we talk about the TikTok children, uh, gravitating towards Bloody Mary? The, the Gaga sensation that happened. That it's like, oh, talk to me about that. I did miss this uh not even a born this way b side like a born this way seaside bloody mary uh became uh a late hit for gaga because it was it became a tic-tok i'll dance dance with my hand and dance above my head

The great and unknowable realm of TikTok continues to baffle and surprise me at every turn. It's worth it for share. I mean, yes, sure, yes. The whole thing with TikTok being in the news, right, and are they going to take it away? And there are implications that reach beyond TikTok and all of this. That's the stuff I don't understand. I understand why TikTok is popular. I understand the things that are popular on TikTok.

I maybe don't understand the most important thing about how it might affect my life about it. The thing that I feel like I have the biggest handle on is the fact that, like, government people who also don't understand TikTok, who basically see TikTok is like this thing their kids are into that they don't understand. and they're on its case for data collection, right? It's data collection, it's owned by the Chinese, so we're worried about data going to China, which I'm sort of assuming that all of my data is already in China

for, like, somehow or another anyway, right? Sure. I've sort of at least given up the ghost that, like... Listen, I can have a conversation with my husband in the car about, I don't know. Can I tell you? Can I tell you? Romaine lettuce. Yes.

And I will get... it's insidious this way. Yes, I will have Romaine Lettuce, Stan accounts show up in my Instagram, Pete. It's wild. It's, yes. So is to say, Jesus would have slayed on TikTok. Oh, Jesus. Yes.

I'm surprised, actually, that we haven't gotten some sort of fictional account of, like, if Jesus had existed today, he would come to the children through their social media, whatever. He would minister through, he would be. you know, doing the, he would be flossing out on TikTok. Is that even popular anymore? He'd be doing the cuffet dance on TikTok. Yeah, right. Okay, that's more, that's more contemporary. Fine. I feel like flossing is like two years ago.

I'm like, you're old, you're too stupid old man. That's still the only thing. Or would he be inaccessible on social media and we get the drips through Mary Magdalene's social media presence, much like we get like the Beyonce like drips and details from Miss Tina's Instagram.

Well, one of the things that, one of the things I do find interesting about Mary Magdalene, a movie that I wish I found a little bit more interesting, was this idea, this idea that, like, Jesus had his message, and then, like, it's refracted through all of these different people where, like, Mary Magdalene has her idea of what he's teaching, and Peter has another idea, and Judas has another idea. So I'm imagining this, you know, modern day context of, like, maybe people. Peter is the one who has the substack, right? And he's like, I am going to be presenting Jesus's message through substack. And Judas is like, no, I'm going to be like singing covers on YouTube every day. And that's going to be my way of, and then Mary Magnin is like, no, no, no, this is all dumb and bad. I'm going to be on TikTok and I'm going to be getting, you know, I'm going to be reaching the people. And that's sort of... And the Romans are a truth social.

The Romans are sitting back with six out of nine votes on the Supreme Court, and they're just like, hey, we don't have to worry about shit right now. So, yeah, I don't know. This metaphor is probably going to fall apart in my hands, but if we take it too much further. Listeners, we're going to have a lot of Bible jokes if you didn't show up for that. Get ready. Because we're talking about none other than already forgotten, but at least for U.S. audiences long delayed. Mary Magdalene Long Delayed is right

Follow up to Lion Runei Mara gets attached to this movie while she is still an active Oscar nominee for Carol Like this is Those Oscars have not even

happened yet So we are still in like very early 2016 She gets attached to this movie She of course That same year Had been in Lion For director

Garth Davis She was sort of the least... This movie is filming as Lion is arriving in theaters. She's sort of the least interesting part of Lion. Through no fault of her own, that character is just sort of like kind of, you know, he's got a girlfriend, right? And she's... Watching that performance, it's like this is a very odd role to be played by a multiple Oscar nominee. Because it's not much of a role.

So this movie was originally intended to come out in, like, 2017. 2017, wrapped in 2016. The timeline of it is very interesting because it ties into, I'm glad you mentioned the carol of it. It also ties so much into Lion, which was being released, would have already had its festival debut by the time of film. This movie is financed overseas by Focus Overseas and other production companies, but the U.S. distributor that gets picked up is the Weinstein Company, who also distributed Lyon, was intended to be their Thanksgiving release of this year, while the current war cannot believe we're talking about this movie before we talked about the current war. Oh, my God, true. It's supposed to be their Christmas release. Right.

We're expecting to see Mary Magdalene on the fall film festival circuit. All of these lineups get announced. There's no Mary Magdalene whisper campaigns start that it's like, oh, well, maybe it's not that good, but nobody's ever talking about. Maybe they didn't have time to finish the movie. Yeah. So I'm somewhat dubious about, because Garth Davis has said, no, we weren't done with the movie. I was too busy campaigning and promoting Lyon to really get started on the movie before, you know, the release was planned. In August, as Tulip Fever is hitting theater.

Tulip Fever is sweeping the nation. Tulip Fever is sweeping the release calendar. Yeah. It gets pushed to Easter of the next year. Yes. You can maybe see why, especially if the movie is. not done or not all that great. Sure.

Why it would be not only spring, but maybe somewhat of a cash grab to grab all of those Christians that flock to the movie theaters. And then obviously the Weinstein report comes out that October. Yeah. So the U.S. distribution rights get really kind of tied up as the movie kind of falters. it gets released overseas in the Easter season of 2018. IFC picks it up, releases it in the Easter season of 2019. Yes.

So by the time that IFC, which like IFC, I remember them, I forget how many theaters they put this in, but like every once in a while, IFC will be like, we'll make a quick $2 million on this movie. Yes. Sure. And they didn't. With this movie, it made over $100,000. I love the absolute dedication to like, we've got to release this thing over the Easter and Passover holidays or else nobody will go see it because clearly we need to take that boost. It's so funny, though, so I do before, as I'm preparing for the sort of year ahead, I assemble, I tend to assemble this spreadsheet where I go and I scour IMDB and Wikipedia and all these sort of like all these possible sorts.

and assemble this kind of grand spreadsheet for all of the movies that are, at the very least, either scheduled for the new year or in post-production, where I assume that they're in a space to be possibly scheduled in the new year. And it has become a good resource for when I go on the Little Gold Men episode every year and talk about sort of year-head Oscars. But it's also just sort of, it's a nice way of looking at how the year sort of is laying out in front of us, right? What to expect, what's on the docket, and I pulled up my 2017 spreadsheet, which if it wasn't the first year that I did that spreadsheet, it was like one of them, because I don't think, I can't imagine I was doing it much earlier than that. And sure enough, there is Mary Magdalene right on that

with a November 24th, 2017, release date scheduled from the Weinstein Company. There was no plot logline to speak of, although, you know, some is known of the story of Mary Magdalene. What? Yeah. So, and then that would then show up. And so when I make the new list for the new year, I sort of copy the old list and then delete all of the movies that have opened.

And so Mary Magdalene sat there on that list for three straight years. And I remember the very first time it was on there, and maybe even the second time, I was like, this is one to watch. Rooney Mar is so hot right now, re-teaming with Garth Davis. You know, she's the title role. It's a real person. We're getting, you know, the story we've never gotten before. And I'm like, this is going to be Rooney Mara's next Oscar nominee. And I held on to that.

Well, and you had a long pre-production tale, too, because you mentioned it was first announced during the Carroll season. Yes. Yes. I actually, in my researching around, I saw this where it was like February of 2016, where it was announced. The other thing, though, you mentioned obviously the fallout of the Weinstein Company that, in part, contributed to this movie sort of sitting in a no man's land for a couple of years. it loses the Weinstein Company. It is replaced by, I made a note of this as this movie was starting as I was watching it last night, a kind of a murderer's row of pre-movie fanfare logos where it's like, IFC, low-key underrated good title card fanfare. Like, that is, it's... They have a new one since. do that I have I can't picture the new one in my head but the one that was on this one it's that sort of like you get the shuddering of the the film reel and then this got this you know little bit of you know music and it's just like it's very soothing and it's it's kind of like that it's just like on steroids it's got to be a Pavlovian thing of like somewhere in the back of my brain is the memory of sitting down at some movie theater and feeling very sort of calmed by whatever I was about to see and I have

you know, the IFC logo contributes to that. Then it's the big universal. You know, the globe is turning and the universal logo. Then those soothing tones of focus features come into play. And it's just like, wow, this is really cleaning up in terms of pre-movie fanfare. And then you get the film four, which is fine. But I was just like, it's interesting that like, you know, these studios combined bring you a movie that didn't really exist.

These studios combined, and if you remove even just the IFC of it, it's like, so Focus didn't try to get the... I wonder what the legalese of all of that is, that Focus would be distributing it internationally, but not after what had happened. Right. You know, putting it out in the States? I want to... Before I move on from my 2017 spreadsheet, though, because there are a couple interesting... things in here. I have the what would eventually be known as the post on here, but it was known as the papers then, which I totally forgot. The lurking unknown that was the Cloverfield movie,

that was at that point... The Super Bowl Cloverfield movie? I have it listed here as Cloverfield movie slash God Particle, because at one point was going to be called God Particle. And then it end up. That was the surprise Super Bowl drop under the title, The Cloverfield Paradox. Not a good movie, although with a wild ending. That it doesn't even like make the movie better, but it's just like, oh, they went for it. They did that. They did the thing. What else is on here under odd titles? There's certain movies that are on here that are like, what is this thing? A movie called Final Portrait that was to be directed by Stanley 2. These are maybe movies that happened, and just like I didn't even notice that a biopic about a painter starring Jeffrey Rush and Army Hammer directed by Stanley Chichie.

That happened. That's a movie. Okay. See, you're the right person to talk to because like sometimes these movies make it through. That might be another IFC movie because that was, that movie was indeed released. I just forget who the distributor was. Okay. What else do I have here that maybe never happened? Well, obviously the Spielberg movie, The Kidnapping of Edgardo Mortara, which that was the Is that the Pope movie? Is that the movie that had something to do with? So many Spielberg.

Spielberg movies aren't real until filming starts. That's the thing. But that movie I remember was on his like pre-production slate forever, forever and ever and ever. As was the U.S. remake of like father like son, the Coriata movie that he saw while being the Cannes president. Right. The can president that awarded.

Blue is the warmest color, a movie that is not good. Did this movie ever happen? It was called Submergence, a Vim Vendor's movie called Submergence with James McAvoy, Alicia Vakander, and Charlotte Rampling? That movie. That is a movie. That is a fun game to play with you, because you definitely know much, much more than me. You got more for me?

I just cracked my back for it. I can crack my mouth if you need. What else do you got? Probably. What else do I have? Let's see. Oh, what is this movie that I? I've never heard of

On Chesel Beach? That's weird. I don't know, but I did remember hearing Bibi Zaharba Ney do a song about it. He used to like a bad. On Chesa Beach.

Yeah, oh wait, there was one more that I wanted to mention because I definitely what is, oh no, this one I definitely remember hearing about although I never saw, same kind of different as me, the Renee Zellweger movie.

That's real. That's, no, that's definitely, that's, like, one of those Christian movies. What is it with roadside attractions? Roadside Attractions is not releasing, like, awards movies anymore, and they're, they've done this collaboration with, I believe it's, like, vertical entertainment or vertical releasing or something, where it's like, those movies get into theaters, but they're more so meant for VOD, but, like, the roadside releases now are a lot of, like, Christian-targeted movies. Hmm, interesting.

All right, this is one more, and then we'll stop playing this silly little game. But this is a fun game, and maybe we can play it in the future. I have this thing listed as a movie called Damsel, a David Zellner movie called Damsel starring. Robert Pattinson and Mia Vasikowska? Real movie. Under that title? Yes. It's a Western.

I've never heard of it. I wanted to watch it, but I never watched it. Anybody's listening and has seen any of these movies tweet at us and let us know how they were. Don't yell at us because there's only so many things I can keep in my brain at one time. If you've seen Submergence, a movie that I think only played Tiff or something like that. Like, it does not, it's not a real movie, but it is a real movie. Tell us about submergence. Oh, and there's also, there's a Lake Bell movie called What's the Point that is on this spreadsheet,

starring Lake Bell, Ed Helms, and Mary Steenbergin that is listed as a comedy? What's the title again? What's the point? That sounds like it could be real. Yeah. I mean, most of, like, most of these. movies who get to the stage of getting onto this spreadsheet seem to be that they're in some stage of production. So they probably get released at some point. But some of them very quietly.

This is a game we need to do for trivia nights? Like, is this movie real or not? Like, was this ever made? When I worked at the Atlantic Wire, I started in November of 2013. And so it was not very long before the Sundance lineup announcement. came out and I every year was so enchanted by the Sundance lineup and would sort of pour through it and see what's going on. But also the thing that I loved

about the Sundance lineup every year was more than half of those movies sounded like parodies of Sundance movies when you read the title combined with the performers combined with the log line. It very much sort of like

skirted the edge of self-parody. So we did a whole article that was like, guess whether this is a real Sundance movie or a totally fake thing that we just made up. And we had a very, very fun time that day coming up with fake Sundance titles. So all of that is to say, the story of Mary Magdalene hasn't been told in this way ever before.

So we really are getting, get ready. See, okay, there's stretches of this movie that I'm like, I am into this. There are ideas in this movie that I'm into. There is a nugget of a good movie here. However, when the movie becomes more about Jesus, it becomes not good. Yes. But it fumbles the character of Jesus, I think.

Right. Joaquin Phoenix as Jesus. He's too old. Which is kind of exactly what you expected to be. Yeah. But the movie that's like, he is giving a fully committed performance that becomes almost parody of a Joaquin Phoenix. performance, because the movie that surrounds it is so limp?

I don't think that performance is particularly interesting, though. I think it's committed. I think he's going for it. I don't find, and this is not me being a Joaquin Phoenix hater. I've kind of backed off a little bit from my extreme Joaquin Phoenix haterism. And this performance doesn't have... Come on, come on, did a lot of that for you. This performance doesn't have the Joaquin ticks that I find so irksome.

So, like, this is not a performance that is going to bother me on that level. I just don't think there's a lot to be very interested in there. By far, the more interesting scenes to me are the ones between Mary and Judas and Mary and Peter. Because that to me is where this movie gets interesting, is the wrangling between those characters as to how each of them are sort of interpreting what Jesus is saying through what, certainly at least with Peter and Judas, through what they want. it to be, through what they want to be true. Because Peter wants a revolution against Rome, and as does Judas. But Judas also just, like, wants his dead family members to come back to life. And Mary, who was also, you know, interpreting things through her own experience, even though sometimes the movie interprets it as like, well, Mary's the one who sees the truth of it all.

And Mary is the only one who, you know, really gets it. But Mary also is coming at this just like, in my experience, I have been and I have seen, you know, women sort of struggling under the thumb of this patriarchal society. And I want to sort of turn Jesus's head towards their plight. And, you know, and his ministry can be about helping, you know, the downtrodden among us here on Earth, here in Galilee or wherever. before we get too far into it then since we're you know we're starting to you know uh talk about yeah yeah yeah we should do the 60 second plot description we should which i'm not prepared for no i presume this is going to be very difficult because you as a catholic are uh very unfamiliar

with uh this story if you were to ask me to to give 60 seconds on the uh events of easter week from Palm Sunday through Easter Sunday I probably would have an easier time this is there are intricacies here that I'm whatever

whatever I'll do my best I will do my best yes listeners we're here talking about the motion picture Mary Magdalene directed by Garth Davis written by Helen Edmondson and Philip Gazlet

starring Rooney Mara Joaquin Phoenix Chihuatl Egyafor Tahar Rahim Sarah Sophie Bus Nina Hadas Yaron Chechikario

Chirahas Ariane Lab the partner of Yorgas-Lantamos, and Denny Monashay. Very interesting. Yeah, it's a good cast, I think, all in all. It's like a really good European cast at the very beginning of the movie

when it's Mary Magdalene with her family. And I was thinking, whoa, is that what this whole movie is going to be? And it's ultimately not. I really wish that it, was, or maybe the first 15 minutes of the movie, were, like, 90% of the movie? Sure, sure, sure, sure, yeah. Because, like, that stuff is really good and interesting, I thought.

But let's not get too far ahead of ourselves. Joseph Reed, are you ready to give a 60-second plot description? As ready as I'll ever be, yeah. All right, then your 60-second plot description of Mary Magdalene starts now. All right, picture it, Judea, AD 33. Mary Magdalene is a young woman in the town of Magdalas. She doesn't want to get married, even though that's basically all she's there for. Her family tries to give her a forced exorcism because of this, and she's like, fuck this.

I'm going to go and I'm going to follow this guy, Jesus, who's come through my town and has seemed to have some good ideas. She fits in with his little group, which is pretty well established by this point. Not everybody likes her, Peter, who is more of a revolutionary, thinks that she's. He's going to distract from the mission, and Judas just wants his dead relatives to come back to life as Jesus is sort of promised, and they kind of, you know, they go from town to town, and she tries to get Jesus to pay attention to the women in each towns, and then they come to Jerusalem, and Jesus sort of walks through town, and Judas is like, hey, why are where are all the dead relatives coming back to life, and he gets disillusioned, and he betrays Jesus to the Romans,

and Jesus gets crucified briefly, and comes back to life, and Mary Matthews. Magdalene is one of the, it's the first person to see him, and she tells the apostles, and they're like, well, okay, but like, you still shouldn't be a big part of this going forward. And she's like, fuck you, I will be heard. And then she goes, and she has a nice little talk with Jesus in the end. 15 seconds over, and on the seventh day, you can rest, Joe Reed. Um, yes, Mary Magdalene did absolutely say, fuck you. That was in the book of sleigh. So actually, one of the things, because famously, I've never gone to a non-Catholic school. I went to Catholic school all the way through kindergarten through eighth grade, then went to a Catholic high school, and then went to a Jesuit college. So I've never not attended a Catholic-affiliated school. One of the classes, though, that we took at my college, and the Jesuits, as I may have mentioned on here, for are like, they're Catholic, but they're also, like, very dedicated to education. They're

like, two things are, like, missionary work and education. And dedicated to education to the point where, like, yeah, like, we'll teach you about everything. Like, we don't necessarily are, it's not, like, religious education. It's not like indoctrination. It's, so, like, all of the classes that I ever took that sort of, like, opened me up to world religions and kind of, set me along the path towards becoming more or less agnostic, non-practicing Catholic were because the classes that I took when I was at my Jesuit college. But I remember in one class, we learned about the Gnostic Gospels for the first time, the Apocryphal Gospels, these texts that had been found in various places around

either the Middle East or Greece or Rome or whatever that were. said to be or sort of debated as to whether they were written by people who were around Jesus at that time. And one was like the gospel of St. Thomas, Thomas, who was sort of in the Bible famously, the one who like, is that really Jesus back from the dead? I'm not entirely sure. I'm going to have to do. The story in the gospel is like, he had to like stick his hand in Jesus's wounds to believe that it was the really, oh, yeah. Catholicism is wild. Yeah. Jesus indeed. And So, but so he is said to have a gospel written either, I mean, the authorship of the gospels is a conversation we're not going to really get into, but like, there's the gospel

of Thomas, but there's said to be a gospel of Mary. And there's debate. We are going to get into the award, the awards trajectory of the gospels, though. Oh, yeah, yeah. Some were, some were ruled ineligible by the Writers Guild because they weren't properly registered with the guild and that whole thing. But yeah, so there's a gospel of Mary, a sort of apocryful gospel of Mary that there's debate over which Mary, because one of my favorite things about the Bible is that there's like, it's too many Mary's, right? It's Mary the mother of God, and then there's Mary Magdalent, and there's like a couple other Mary's sort of like in that midst. It's sort of everybody, it's like the chrises. They were the chrises of their time. It's like

who's your preferred Mary? There's many gay chrises in the world. The gay chrises are the biblical Marries, yes. As I sent you the clip last night, the circus is in town Mary. Oh, girl, the circus is in town, Mary. And it is, that was Vanji talking about the women of the Bible.

But so there is this possibility that there is a gospel written by Mary Magdalene and that's sort of where a lot of this reinterpretation of Mary Magdalene as a historical figure sort of coalesces. Because one of the... Well, in the movie asserts a lot of historic

sources of, you know, refuting the conventionally accepted version of Mary Magdalene as Pope, whoever in the year 500 was the first one to say that Mary Magdalene was a prostitute and it basically stuck throughout the rest of history. Right. Because that has never said explicitly in the text of the Bible that she was a prostitute. And it's one of those things where you can see not to get too sort of vulgar about it. But like if, you know, Jesus's friend had some friends who didn't really. care for her close relationship with Jesus and they're just like yeah that prostitute right you know

what I mean it's like that well but interpretation that it's this one woman caravanning around with a bunch of men she's not she's not married yes which like I kind of this is the stretch of the movie that I really liked because it is this re contextualization against conventionally accepted and Andrew Lloyd Weber recertified versions of the gospels that you know that she is a, you know, prostitute. But in, you know, the movie is reasserting her as a woman who essentially left her family for religious purpose. To go on tour with the Grateful Dead, essentially. Like, that's basically sort of the, that's, I imagine that's how it was interpreted at the time.

It was like she was the Martha Marcy May Marlene of her family, sort of going off to run with this, a messianic cult. But also in, you know, semi-ancient cultures, how heretical that might have been that would have, you know, being that she was a woman doing this. Yeah. And the movie positions her as a woman who is, you know, a complicated relationship with her father. She's, like, guiding Shira Haas through a birth. Yeah. So, yeah, like, some of it seems perhaps a little too neat in a bow.

Uh-huh. Yeah, I would agree with that. In a way that's... When she says, I will not be silenced. Yeah. Yeah. She's basically doing the Oprah Giff of, like, were you silent or were you silenced? Like, that's how she's defining herself.

Yes. Yes. But I also think that, you know, maybe simply by nature we haven't really seen that movie before from this story. And then the movie becomes very much kind of the Revlon ad of the version we have seen of this movie until Jesus dies. Again, this is where I come back to that the most interesting parts for me are her interactions and relationships with Peter and Judas. Because two of the things that we know about the things that we're sort of taught as Catholics, this is the as a Catholic episode. I'm just going to as sort of now that I listen to Blank Check now that David Sims is doing a Danny Boyle series and he's just like,

I'm just going to stop being concerned about bringing up that I lived in England for all this time. It's like it's going to inform all of these episodes. That's me with this episode. It's just like, this is my, I'm a Catholic episode. culturally Catholic. I don't, I am very much not practicing. Anyway, everything that were, the things that we're sort of taught about St. Peter, once you get sort of beyond the, you know, what happens in the actual Gospels, he's the first pope, right? He's the person who, the rock upon which the church is built, the institutional church from there on after. And so Peter in this movie very, very, much represents the institutional church's resistance to acknowledging Mary and thus through Mary women as equal to men as, you know, equal in terms of ministry or in terms of place of prominence within that, you know, he sees her as a distraction. He sees her as somebody who is going to weaken

their movement and this is a very sort of like, it's not even on the level of metaphor. It's just sort of like that is what Peter is within this religion, is he is sort of the beginnings of the institutional church. And so of course he's going

to be the most opposed to her. The things that we know about Judas, beyond the fact that he's the one who betrays Jesus, we get the scene in the movie where he kisses Jesus on the cheek, which is what signals to the Romans that this is the guy you want to come in arrest because they didn't have Google image search back at the time,

so they didn't maybe know what Jesus looked like. Yeah, the Jennifer Lopez Grammy's dress was a few years AD. Right, right. So Google image search was right. That was 39 AD, not 33 AD. By the way, the fact that this movie... You said 33 AD, and I was like,

is this Jesus too? Is this Jesus the sequel? No, that's the beginning of this movie. Starts with a title card that says 33 C.E. You said AD, though, in the plot description. But AD and CE are basically the same thing. CE is what replaced AD in terms of like the common promise. Isn't AD supposed to be after death? Like, when?

No, it's not after death. I think that's why they replaced it because there was a misconception of it. It's a Latin term that's like anti-de-whatever, whatever, whatever. It means it's the birth of Christ, that is the dividing factor. So C.E. 33 is the year that Jesus is 33 years old, which is famously the year that Jesus died. What we need is BGI, AGI, before Google images, after Google images. Exactly, exactly. But so we know that Judas is the one who betrays Jesus. The famous story, the sort of like the least kind story to Judas is that he betrayed Jesus for 30 pieces of silver and then immediately goes off and kills himself.

he hangs himself because he's so ashamed of what he's done. And other sort of, Judas becomes the more interesting character as you do these sort of more postmodern interpretations of the Jesus story. Obviously, the idea of sexy Judas, which is very much the case in Mary Magdalene, Tahar Rahim is so hot as Judas in this movie. But like, this is not the first time. Like, obviously Jesus Christ Superstar has also explored ideas of hot Judas. And but so in, Lady Gaga has explored Hot Judas. 100%. You can see why he's the most interesting character in this sort of story of Jesus as you move along towards a more postmodern perspective because he's the one who, he's the one who transgresses, right?

He's the one who betrays Jesus. He steps out of this, you know, everybody else is loyal to Jesus and what would it take for somebody to betray Jesus, right? And so in this movie, I sort of, you know, make light of the idea that, like, he thinks his dead family members are going to come back as, like, righteous ghosts or whatever. But the movie kind of tells you that, like, that is what, if not what Jesus has actively led him to, you know, believe. But certainly nobody's disabused of this notion. And it's, again, these people sort of interpreting Jesus' teachings about, like, the kids. kingdom of heaven will be coming and, and, you know, salvation will be coming and what will come, all these sort of, like, highly metaphorical ideas. And Mary Magdalene is sort of the

one to just be like, I wonder if what he's saying isn't meant to be taken strictly literally, Judas. And Judas is taking it very literal. Well, it doesn't help that, like, Jesus in this movie is basically powder, like a mystic who is just, like, there to say mystical shit and then sit around silently for a while. And everybody else is, like, like well what the fuck is going on um well and in terms of a theme and uh you know that's that that tracks right that jesus said what he said jesus in this movie is your friend that will just like walk into a room hear half of a conversation and then say some like thing about like ah yes it's your saturn return and then leave like he'll say some astrology shit and then leave

and everyone's like uh you're sorry that's Joaquin phoenix jesus your saturn return he has a constant half glaze over his eyes and is just like yeah hippie jesus in this movie yeah but like also powder because he can cure people right but like jesus never really feels like a character to jesus is mere function in this movie uh for like what it's trying to contextualize this birth of a religion right um in this movie but like jesus is the least interesting thing about this movie 100% well as i you know there's a there's a degree to which uh you know jesus said what he said much like tamisha imman and drag race you know he said what he said and then everybody else sort of takes that ball and much like tamisha iman he will read you on tuesday little girl the day of his resurrection that's what he said to peter when peter questioned him he said i've been around for 30 years at this little girl.

Right. Anyway. He has a secret claustomy bag. I should not be surprised at how many times we're referencing RuPaul's Drag Race in this episode about Mary Magdalene and Jesus. Well, this is a movie that asks the really crucial question. What if Mary Magdalene Slade? Okay.

Does Mary Magdalene Slay in this movie? Does Rooney Mara ever like... I think Rooney Mara is good in this movie. I think what she's serving is a soft sleigh. Oh, I'm not. I'm not denying that. I think she's good in this movie. I think outside of the bounds of like girl with the dragon tattoo,

Lizabeth Salander, certainly she slays in that. Is Runei Mara the type of actress who, when she's doing what she's doing, would you describe her as a sleigh? Oh, Carol, absolutely. Okay. Yeah, no, I agree with that. I guess there are different ways to slay. It doesn't have to be so demonstrative.

You're not always doing the splits and the, and the shablams and all that sort of stuff she's she's not a shablam actress she's she's she's not really a park and bark either though right she's kind of she's giving you soft interpretations right she's she's working outside of she's giving you downtown theater in the round right right yes yeah like yeah she's an artist giving obi award she's always giving obi award that's true she's not like this is not is not like, okay, I like Runei Mara a lot, and everything I'm saying to compliment her

sounds like soft shade. It's inevitable. She's just a very unique particular actress. She's from, she's like if Juliet Benosh went, didn't go as hard. I, all right, that's a good comparison

actually. There's, I think... Because Julia Pinoch, like, is maybe the same type of actress, but like goes hard. Sure. Like, like Julie Epoenosh, I've seen some terrible movies with her in it, and I've seen some average movies in it. Yeah. With her in it, she is always fucking putting everything in it. Ruehara is, but it's just like Runei Mara isn't a, like, she just, the characters she plays are different.

Like, this performance, I think, is very similar to her performance in women talking, where it's like. Mm-hmm. I thought of women talking a few times in this movie, actually, yes. Yeah. Like, it's, she's a direct, she's good at playing direct forward, but she's maybe not a forceful person. She's much more forceful than this than she is in women talking. There's that baby bird quality to her that I can't, you know what I mean? Just like, for good or bad.

I don't think she's a baby bird. But there is, but there's that way of, you know, it almost feels like you're, you're really coaxing out any kind of words out of her, right? She's, you know, reluctant to speak sometimes, and she's observing the world around her, and she's, you know, very, you know, careful my bones a little bit about it all. I don't think she's careful my bones. She, I mean, like, I think, you know, this movie catches her in the crossroads of paperbag fashion and blowing in the breeze. Rooney Mara, like, you know, much like in the Terrence Malick movie, she was in, that that movie is like, rock and roll. This movie is... Right. Never saw that one.

House of Cross, soft contemporary. How many Terence Malick movies has she been in? Just that one? Just the one. I'm pretty sure it's just the one. But she was in Soul to Soul, which, like, blurs somewhat with Night of Cups in my mind to me, and you can see why. I think I like both. I know I like Night of Cups.

I forget everything about Is it song to song? I think it's song to song. I think it's song to song. I think it's not, I think it's song to song. She's soul to soul to soul. That's a group. That's a group.

That's a group called soul. Wait. I'm looking that up because I think that is that song. Wait, hold on. Soul to soul. How many do you want me? Yeah, wait, it's got to be. Yes, back to life parenthesis, however do you want me, is the title of that song.

Love a Prince. Great song. Yes. This is like when, okay, again, I'm going to talk about Beyonce. When Beyonce came out with Renaissance last year,

I was like, this is the shit we used to, we used to listen to house music on popular radio as children. Definitely. Like, and it was, I wouldn't necessarily say soul to soul

as house music, but like adjacent. Like, no, but there was. To listen to jock jams. Like, that's the thing.

To listen to full on dance music in the 90s. Early 90s was a lot of that. Like, a lot of bands. that felt very quasi-assembled, you know what I mean? That, like, you know, this band sort of really exists inside a studio. Snap, I've got the power, is sort of in that realm. Obviously, you're right, like, the more specifically Renaissance in referenced stuff,

the Robin S's of the world and whatnot. But even, like, Lisa Stansfield was so popular. LaBouche, baby. LaBouche, totally. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, like, not all of it was strictly dance music, but it was a lot of this kind of soft soul music, too. Like, I remember, like, when I was...

When I was 10 years old, like, Anita Baker was on the radio constantly. Anita Baker. Hell, yes. You know what I mean? Like, it's crazy to think about that now. Good music. Good shit. To loop it back to the Rooney Mard,

discussion with the bridge of popular 90s music. I feel like what you are saying is that Rooney Mara is baby spice and what I'm trying to say is she is always going to be posh spice. Oh, I think that's more right. I don't think she's baby spice. I think the

bird-like quality I think is definitely just in the way that she observes first, observes first and sort of you know speaks second, if not third. This movie this movie is at a detriment when it is not her observing.

It feels like she leaves for such a chunk of the movie. Here's my question to you. If this movie was not all caught up in the Weinstein sell-off, if this movie wasn't released three years after it was made, if this movie sort of has a more normal trajectory and gets, say, a Venice premiere or a telluride premiere or something, Is she in the Oscar conversation? Is Rooney's performance in this movie?

Is this movie enough to put her in the Oscar conversation? Or is this ultimately not good enough of a movie and maybe not demonstrative enough of a performance to put her in an awards conversation? I definitely think she's in the conversation. I think that's maybe the top line of it. If this had come out in 2017 as it was supposed to, that's probably a really, really hard best actress lineup to crack.

Yeah. That lineup being Francis McDormon winning for three billboards, Sally Hawkins in the Shape of Water, Marta Robey, in I-Tanya, Sertia Ronan, and Lady Bird, and Merrill in the Post. It's a very good lineup. I think she has no chance of cracking that lineup. Who else would have been, like... I want to look up the Golden Globe nominees, though,

because, like, that feels like a possible Golden Globe nomination. If the drama category is short, one or two, hold on a second, 2017. Right. Let's see. I mean, conceivable sixth place, I think, was actually maybe Vicky Creeps because the Phantom Threat. Came on very strong at the end. But so, okay, so you're, but that, that came on after the Globe nomination. So, Sertia Ronan and Margot Robbie were both nominated in comedy, which left two sort of

open spots. The drama nominees, Francis McDormand, Sally Hawkins, Merrill Streep, who all went on to get Oscar nominations, Jessica Chastain and Molly's game, and Michelle Williams in all the money in the world. Great performance, good movie. Sure, but like a wild awards trajectory there. I think Rooney could have been competitive for one of those two slots. Actually, looking up the Globes' comedy lineup, I do think because she was also BAFTA nominated, I think sixth place was Judy Judy Denton? 100%. 100% I think so. Yes. Vicki's probably 8th or 9th, though, I would say. I would say maybe 7th or 8th.

Oh, sorry, sorry, sorry, 7th, yes. Math is not my strong suit. Yes, 7th 3rd. We love Ricky so much. I can't wait until Vicky gets her nomination. What does she have coming up this year, I wonder? Great question. I could bring up my 2023. If she doesn't have anything with a possibility, of being nominated this year,

there really is something wrong with this speech. I mean, the thing about Vicky Creeps is because she stars in, like last year, right, she was in that movie Corsage. And foreign language stuff is a little bit harder to spot coming down the pike from our vantage point. Let's see, Vicky, Vicky, Vicky.

Nothing in my spreadsheet. Let me check the IMDB, the old IMDB, old reliable. Katie mentioned that when we did our Little Gold Men look-ahead episode. She was like, it really is, especially for people like me, Kahn kind of sets the table for the foreign language film conversation in a way that we don't really necessarily...

It's not like Sundance does that for English-language films or whatever. Okay, so, upcoming for Vicki Creeps. A Vigo Mortensen directed and starring movie called The Dead Don't Hurt. I am not going to hold out any hope for that. his previous directed movie Falling is one of the worst movies I've ever seen. She's in a movie coming up called The Wall, where she plays a Border Patrol agent.

So Vicky Creeps' Sicario is coming. And, of course, it is another year, so we can't go one more year without another Three Musketeers movie, although this one seems to be There is something wrong with it. Female focused. It is the Three Musketeers, colon, milady, starring Eva Green. Okay, I'm back on. I'm back on. I'm back on. Starring Eva Green as Melady. Vicky Creeps is in this movie. Louis Gorell is in this movie as Louis XVI. Vincent Cassell. This is the sexiest movie of all time. Look at that. Eva Green, Vincent Cassell, Vicki Creeps, Louis Guerrell. Like, sure. Call the fire department, honey, because that is hot. Like, come on. That's amazing. It's also got...

The clown has come to town and call the fired park. The circus is in town, Mary. Yeah, so I'm kind of into that. Three Musketeers, Melady. When is that? It's expected in December. It's got a December 13th release date. So, God bless.

You know, sometimes we make fun of the fact that every year has to be a new Three Musketeers movie. And yet, okay, so who are there? the three female artists then who combined to do the modern day all for all for one all for love the three milady tears yes who's who's gonna sing kelly clarkson kallie clarkson um Casey musgraves and Olivia Rodriguez I'm in I'm totally in all right Vicki we've got you can I just side note say I am really upset that The Kelly Clarkson Vegas residency starts two weeks after I'm going to be there for my sister's birthday.

Oh, Chris. This feels cruel. This feels cruel and targeted. Genuinely homophobic. I thought you were going to say, who's going to be the three, who's going to play the three musketeers, which there are four?

Imagine if it was Vicky, Rooney. Oh. Vicky, Rooney. Wait. Yeah, who rounds out? Who rounds out? Beaie a goth. Yeah.

And Dakota Johnson. Sure. Yes. Perfect. The three milady tears. Three miladies. Oh, my God. All right.

I'm into it. I'm into it. All right. Let's, that is now, we've adopted that movie. That is a this had Oscar buzz adoptee. Is the Three Musketeers Malady.

We'll see how it goes. Okay. Better be announced for the cam lineup is all I'm going to say. And if it is, I'm drafting it in our pool. Okay. We should talk about Garth Davis. Yeah, Garth Davis got...

Aussie! Ozzy, Gauth Davis. Yes. Came to prominence from co-directing just the first season of Top of the Lake with Jane Campion. Yes. Are you a Top of the Lake person?

No, I don't remember how much of the first season of Top of the Lake. I watched. Top of the Lake came to me at a time when I had really gotten burned out on the true detectives and what was the British one with Olivia Coleman and David Tennant? Broadchurch. I had watched True Detective and I had watched Broadchurch and I'd watched The Killing. And I don't think I was up for another season long limited series about let's look into these grisly deaths of young girls. So I had nothing against it. I, of course, adored the

talent involved, Elizabeth Moss and Nicole Kidman and, of course, Jane Campion. I think I watched maybe two episodes and then kind of soft quit it. You know what I mean? I watched all of both seasons and there is a lot of Wait, Kidman's the second season and Holly Hunter's

the first season, right? Yes. The gray hair. There's a gray hair in each season. Yeah, they both got these wild wigs. There is a lot about the top of the lake seasons that I found to be vegetables. in a way that like Jane Campion is never vegetables like so in a way that sometimes Jane Campion is pegged as vegetables and then you're like no like you watch the thing and it's just like no this like Bright Star is like oh another costume drama snoo snoo snoo snoo snoo snoo and it's like no like you're on the edge of your seat being like purple is there going to be purple in this scene what's going on so are they going to hold hands oh my God I think they're holding hands in this scene like yeah It's incredible.

Yeah, I think that's, I don't think I would enjoy actual vegetables coming from that. So you watched both seasons. Yes. But he only did some of the episodes of the first season. Right. Unless he did like an episode of the second. Sure, sure. And then Lion happens.

Lion, which is, talk to me about where you felt like Lion, fell in that award season. It got six Oscar nominations, I think. It did. I saw... Not for Garth Davis and director, though, though he won the DGA Best First Time Director. And wasn't he nominated for just like

the DGA, the regular, regular DGA, I believe? Maybe. I think so. I'll look that up while I talk about. So I attended the world premiere of Lyon at TIF in 2016, rather than the

press screening of that movie. And I said, that was one of those ones where I, like, I got a ticket. I didn't know anybody else who was seeing that at the time. So, like, I saw that one fully by myself. You did get both DGA nominations for Lion. Yeah. Yeah. I thought so. It was one of those things where he gets the DJ and everybody was like, yeah, but that's not going to happen at the Oscars. And then, of course, didn't happen at the Oscars. Not a dry eye in the house, I will describe, including my own when, when Lion was finished at its premiere. And so, I walked out of that being like, if that's the reaction,

and I know that like festival fever and whatever, whatever, half of the people in the room for a world premiere at a festival are connected to the movie or related to people who are connected to the movie. But there are ways in which you can gauge a reaction at a premiere at a festival, especially Toronto. I thought the same of when I saw I Tanya, the reaction to the ovation that Alison Janney's name and the closing credits got at that movie. I was like, okay, she's getting nominated for an Oscar.

So, walking out of Lion and everybody's sort of, you know, sniffling and drawing their tears, I was like, oh, this is going to be a definite Oscar contender. I really liked that movie. I know that it's, you know, unabashedly sentimental. And for some people, that's sort of anathema. And, you know... It was one of the many movies that season that had a credit song by Sia. Oh, that was the year of Sia.

Right. It was Lion. It was the Eagle Huntress. That was the year of Sia, and even it carried over into the next year was the year of Sia? Well, it was Lion Zutopia. The Neon Demon. The Neon Demon, the Eagle Huntress. Remember that song from the Eagle Huntress?

Yes. It was like, it was the same as all the other ones. There were songs that she wasn't singing, but she wrote the songs. Yeah. There were songs that were not original to the movie that were Sia in the credits. Right. That was Zootopia. She wrote the Zootopia song, but she didn't sing the Zootopia song.

And then Sia Gosen makes her own bad offensive movie, and now she's just hanging out, writing songs for people, and giving Survivor contestants money. Yes, exactly. But yeah, I think Dev Patel's quite good and also, like, crazy hot in Lyon. And I think... We talked about this recently. This is the DeF Patel going from Twink to Twunk. Yes. 100%.

Yes. That was the film's original title is from Twink to Twunk. And they changed it to line at, like, the last second. I would also say Sonny Pawar, who plays the younger version of Suru, is a really great child performance. I mean, like, that always sounds so shady. Like, I— No, but you're right. Because when people were like, well, is Deb Patel really supporting in that movie?

I'm like, well, you could say the lead is Sonny Boer, and he's great, so— I struggle with the lead. I know you hate talking about lead supporting distinction, so I'll keep this brief. I hate it. I hate it. It— I don't hate it as a— a topic. I hate the way people talk about it. I hate the way people turn it into like battlefield. Right. No, I agree. I, to me, I struggle with the notion of, you're only in half

the movie, but the half of the movie that you're in, you are in every single scene. You are the lead of everything. You are the lead. And like, that's sort of where I came down with Def Patel. It's just like, I kind of don't care about screen time. He's the lead of the parts of the movie that he's in. And so giving him a supporting nomination felt a little bit weird, but whatever. Like, these are imperfect distinctions and whatever. He gets his first Oscar nomination for that. Very well-deserved.

I think he's very good. Kidman gets a nomination, a totally unsurprising nomination. She's very good in that movie, but she's mostly, like, nice, right? She's a loving mother. She's a loving adoptive mother, and it's impossible not. to walk out of that movie, loving her as much as his character in the movie loves her. And she hadn't been nominated since Rabbit Hole, which had been at that point six years. And I was happy that she got that nomination, even though I probably wouldn't have put her in my top five that year.

I think it helps contribute to this notion that her nominations, when you look at her career, are odd. But they're not always the indicative Nicole Kidman. Is it four? How many, five? How many nominations by now? Five, right? Moulin Rouge. Hours.

The Hours. Rabin'Haw. Being the Ricardo's lion and rabbit hole is five. Yeah, so it's five. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It is interesting, yes. Although the movies that she hasn't been nominated for, it's not like you can be surprised she wasn't nominated for birth or birth.

Dogville or Eyes White Shut. Yeah. Although. To die for, I think, is legitimately. But we've talked about, I tweeted. We have an episode on it. And I tweeted the other day, because I was so,

every time I'll like fall down that rabbit hole. I literally, there are 15 performances that year that I would say were worthy of an Oscar nomination in 1995. It's that competitive. We, I kind of.

I remember it as being an incredibly well made movie. It's shot by Greg Frazier. As is Mary Magdalene. Yep. Yep. I remember that movie just looking really stunning and the visual storytelling of it being really strong. The thing about Lion in the context of

the 2016 Best Picture Race, because it's nominated for Best Picture. Yes, this was the original question. So the thing about the 2016 Best Picture Race is, and this is not always the case in the expanded Best Picture era, but pretty much every movie on that list had a very strong narrative, not necessarily within the movie, but like a strong awards narrative, right? Moonlight, La La Land, those speak for themselves. Hidden Figures was the sort

of late-breaking crowd pleaser. Manchester by the sea had this like towering performance that was like undeniable and that like, you know, put Amazon on the map. A rival made a ton of money and was, like, the movie that people went and saw to sort of feel better about the world after the Trump election, Fences was another movie that, like, was riding on these very towering performances between Denzel and Viola Davis. And the legacy of August Wilson as well. Right. Hacksaw Ridge was the one everybody hated, which is a narrative in and of itself. You know what I mean? But, like, it was incredibly popular with a certain set of the Academy.

Right. Hell or Highwater is the only other one that's like arguably the not the one without a narrative. But it was a big surprise summer hit, though. That movie I remember made a lot of money. And then there's Lyon. And also probably appeals to the same voter as Hacksaw Ridge. That's part of the reason why I don't want. I know you don't like it, but I think it's such a better movie than Hacksaw Ridge.

Like, I don't think it's, I don't think there's, it's, it doesn't compare. It appeals to those people. And me. You know what I mean? It's like, Hell or Highwater also appeal to other people. It has a broader appeal than you might expect. And so there's a little bit of, and then there's Lion factor to it, right? Where it's just like, and then Lion is the nice movie that people liked.

And that's its entire awards narrative, is that people really liked it. But it ended up being the thing that Weinstein co pushed, and it's like that, you know. Yeah, it's last. He's spending the money on it. One of its last gasps in terms of. As it continually, you know. lost money left and right too so yeah it got a total of six nominations so kidman patel picture screenplay um and then what else let's see did gregersher get nominated i thought he did

wasn't there a while where like greg fraser was struggling to get nominated for things no he was nominated for it and he wins for dune and then uh the score was also nominated lost to justin herwitz for La La Land. Can't wait to see what he does with Tune. Dune 2. I'm very, yes, I'm very excited for Dune 2. The Craft's credits on Mary Magdalene are

very good. Greg Frazier. One of the very final scores of Johann Johansson before his untimely death. In tandem with Hilder, oh, how do we pronounce? Guna Daughter. Yes, Guna Dadaher, who would go on

to win the Oscar for Joe right? Win for Joker should have been nominated for women talking. Yes. I can acknowledge that the Joker score is good compositionally. Yeah. But in the context of that movie, which is like everything happening in that movie, I hate, like, I don't like how it's used in that movie. But I think that she is going to be, she's going to be major.

She's going to be like de plah is. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's probably right. one to watch, as the Independence Spirit Awards would say. One to watch, who already has an Oscar? Garth Davis, though, I want to talk about this upcoming, because I don't think he's made a movie,

he's directed a movie since Mary Magdalene, which is longer. I decided for this movie. How could you not be? Even from when Mary Magdalene was released, it's now been four years. So, like, from the time that it was made, it's been much, much longer.

He's got a movie coming out called Fo. that is based on a novel by Ian Reed, no relation, which sounds really interesting. How much do you know about Fo? I think it's supposed to be vaguely science fiction. Yes. All I kind of really need is that trio of stars at the top of the movie. It's Sertia Ronan, Paul Muscal, and Aaron Pierre,

who I'm really excited about. He was in the Underground Railroad and also this Canadian film that he's extraordinary in called Brother. And also, lest you forget, Aaron Pierre was mid-sized sedan and old. Speaking of your beloved. This is just an old episode. Vicki Creeps.

Yeah, so my sense of the plot of foe, and I have not read the novel because I don't read, Paul Muskell, Messkel, God damn it, I'm still doing it. Sorry, Paul. Please forgive me and still marry me. Did I do it wrong, too? We know what's right, and we just keep doing it. And we just keep doing it wrong.

You know why? Because it sounds cooler. You know why? Because we go into smooth brain when we see his... 100%. That angelic little face. Paul Muskell and Sersher Ronan play married, essentially, farmers in the future with, like, whatever, the world's gone to shit.

And a stranger knocks on their door. And the stranger is Aaron Pierre. And... We want to be what Paul reaps and soes. Paul Muskell's got some interesting movies because he's also in the Andrew Hay movie coming up this year. The man doesn't stop working. Paul Muskell, Andrew Scott. Oh, and who's...

Gayshut. What's that? It's going to be some gayship. Some gayship. But Jamie Bell is in it and who's the... Claire Foy. Claire Foy, thank you. Thank you, thank you.

I know there was a quartet of stars in that movie. So super, super excited to see where things go with Paul Meskel this year. But yeah, I'm excited for foe. I'm interested to see, I think Garth Davis, there's a temptation to sort of just be like, well, his follow-up to lie and flopped, so we don't have to take him, you know, he's not really the up-and-coming next big thing guy anymore. And it's an Amazon Studios movie, which I'm not excited about, because Amazon makes everything seem less interesting. They are repositioning themselves, though, because they have said that they're going to do this large theatrical, plan for a certain set of their movies. As of airing, air will be in theaters and we'll see what comes up that. I skip my screening for it. I'm interested to see it because so many people that

I saw reacted to it very positively and compared it to things like Moneyball and Jerry McGuire and stuff like that, which I'm dubious as it reaches those sites. But it's people I trust reacted well to it. So I'm in general, it's not something that super, super, super, super, uh, sikes me up. But anyway, um, do we think that the MGM thing was like, you know, when you inject sometimes like a, like a white blood cell thing into a system and it like invades in a positive way and like, uh, you know, do you think that's what MGM did to Amazon studio? I would like to believe it's that Amazon sees that nothing that they're really producing or putting on that platform has much of a footprint. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's been,

that's the reason why if you see in the last five years Amazon Studios connected to a thing, you're sort of like you know, oh, I had hopes for that movie and then, oh. Yeah. So yeah, hopefully that starts to turn around. But I'm excited for foe. Good for that. Who else should

we talk about in relation to? Let's talk about. We can talk about Waukeen Phoenix. I mean, it's kind of a reminder when you look at his awards run. I mean, maybe not because like the awards run for Joker was so started with, like, well, how much is he going to play ball?

And also, what is he going to say? And also, how weird is it going to be? Yeah. Yeah. But I think none of that ultimately mattered for Joker because Joker was his fourth Oscar nomination. Joker ended up being the most normal Joaquin Phoenix Awards campaign of all of them, weirdly enough, right? Like, almost in inverse reaction to the movie itself,

Joaquin didn't grumble about having to go to award ceremonies like he had in the past. He wasn't, you know, a pill about anything. He seemed like a decently chill person in his acceptance speeches. It was the most I'd ever really liked him in terms of a celebrity. People dogged on him for his acceptance speeches, but, like, there's actual substance there. Like, was it his Globe speech or his SAG speech where he's, like, talking shit about people who, you know, flew from L.A. to Palm Springs for the Palm Springs Festival. And it's like, good on you for saying that. And, like, he does the, you know, people talking about the mother calf in his Oscar speech. But, like, I thought it was actually, like, even if he's inarticulate about it, kind of beautiful what he's trying to get across. I give a long, long leash to celebrities being weird celebrities. Like, actors, not celebrities necessarily.

actors. I think I, and it's because I love actors, but like, actors are weird people. The job that they have to do requires them to become very weird people. It requires them to, like, open their, their psyches up to this sort of cavalcade of all of the emotions all at once so that they can be able to bring them to the four at any moment. So it makes them all- For dipshits like us to sit back and unpack, like, you know, we're, you know. But it makes them all deeply strange people. And that is why I love them. And that's why whenever there's something, we're like, oh, my God, this

actor's so up their own ass. Or oh, my God, this actor is, like, who talks like that? Who, like, who thinks like that? And it's like, somebody who, like, does this for a living. Like, they all become crazy. And, and I love them for it. Yeah. But he's

also had to go, I always, I like walking a lot and I have sympathy for him. And, like, he's had to like go through shit like press people constantly asking about about his brother and yeah yeah he did not have the most the smooth entry into becoming a becoming an actor you forget about that like how much that must really weigh on him and especially because like not only did his brother die at such a pivotal stage in his life but his brother was sort of sort of hailed as the like the next coming of James Dean essentially right like he was the next

great actor of his generation we might have something to say about this we might we might oh I love that we're in our teasing we're in our teasing the May miniseries here you know that's maybe too much of a spoiler but uh not not necessarily no I don't think people will be able to it's a spoiler that we're going to talk about anyway anyway walking Phoenix yes um so at this point he, by the time he makes Mary Maglain, he's a three-time Oscar nominee. He had not won at this point. His Oscar nominations are interesting, actually. When you look at like, couldn't be three more different performances and three couldn't be more different movies. I think it's sometimes somebody's Oscar portfolio, for lack of a better term, shows the exact kind of niche that they occupy. And sometimes it shows an actor. breadth of talent. And for as much as I sometimes would, you know, I think he gets, I think he can fall victim to the temptation to get too hammy in his performances.

I think Gladiator and Walk the Line and the Master and, I mean, I hate Joker. It's tough to like, the Joker, the Joker performance is exactly the thing that I don't like about Lockheed Phoenix performances. And the Master is sort of that way, too. I love The Master. Yeah, I've only seen it the ones. Maybe I owe it another rewatch. You know, you know I'm weird with Paul Thomas Anderson, though.

I have a weird thing. Sure, sure, sure, sure. It's my favorite Paul Thomas Anderson, by the way. What makes it your favorite? Talk about that, because I think that's interesting. I mean, I think it's a deeply emotional movie that really kind of moves me. It moves me in the way that Best Years of Our Lives moves me, and that it's, you know, I mean, it's a movie about, A veteran, it's a movie about a post-life way of, a post-war way of life that is, or post-war society that does not serve these people in a way, that makes their problems worse.

Obviously, the best years of our lives is more about, like, healing in that way. Sure. I think the master is in some ways, the character that he plays, you know, has to, part of that movie's point is that he has to chart his own path. Yeah. towards, you know, healing and finding comfort. I find it so... Rather than follow one that is being fed to him. Right.

A lot of the, um, underwhelmed initial reactions to the master, even among some of the, like, the PTA accolites. The master was also super, super hyped. This is what I was just about to say is it was hyped as Paul Thomas Anderson's Scientology movie. He was going to make the movie about an Elron Hubbard figure, which he does, but it's not what people had in their heads when it came. It wasn't the boogie nights of Scientology, right?

It wasn't the sort of, I think people were looking for an expose or maybe a takedown or maybe something that would sort of put this shadowy, you know, the creepy, for lack of a better term religion slash college on blast. It's undoubtedly, I think, his strangest movie in a filmography that includes inherent. I was going to say, inherent vice is pretty straight. And I think the master is the most meandering in getting to what it's actually getting at, you know. Yeah. No wonder why I like it. That's how my brain works. Um, um, I think he's tremendous in that movie. Yeah. Um, I think everything about that movie is tremendous pig fuck. Um, I mean, that is a tremendous scene, for sure.

I did think Philip Seamer Hoffman was pretty incredible in that movie. Should be Amy Adams' this Oscar. Really? See... Well, Amy Adams should have two Oscars. I think that should be her Oscar, and I'm looping back around to she should have the Jukech Oscar. Oh, so you think it should be the master and Junebug, and I think it should be the fighter.

I mean, I do, well, okay. Are you just giving Amy three Oscars? Wow, all right. I'm fine with that version of history. Maybe this is something we'll get into next month. Maybe. But yeah, Joaquin as Jesus is, again, I don't think it's a bad performance. I do think... I think it's a performance from a different movie.

I think in a different movie, it's maybe even a good performance. But because all of the Jesus stuff in this movie is undoubtedly the least interesting stuff about this movie. Yeah. In a way that I don't think it's necessarily even unintentional. I think you look at how, you look at the way that like the passion scenes and the crucifixion, right, are rendered.

It's, we get the bare minimum, really. We get Rooney sleeps or whatever. She's knocked out by the Roman soldier as they're coming to arrest Jesus. And she's essentially unconscious until the, the walk to Calvary has already begun. He's already got the cross. strapped to his back. He's already got the crown of thorns. He's like halfway down. She barely is able to like get to the road to see him. And that entire sequence, a sequence that was the entirety of the Mel Gibson movie takes place in a matter of five minutes, less maybe even. It's very

brief in terms of when you first see him on the road with the cross to when you last see him up on the cross and dying, it's like under, I would say maybe under five minutes. And then we have the scene of Mary Magdalene and Judas, tear-eyed, going and having this either reconciliation or understanding.

Sarah McLaughlin's I will remember you as playing as they touch each other's face. I did want them to kiss in that moment. I knew they weren't going to because it wasn't that kind of a movie. But they're the two most attractive people in the movie, and sometimes I think the two most attractive people in the movie should kiss.

Maybe that's just sort of a rule that I feel like sometimes. You really want to piss off the Christians by making Judas and Mary Magdalene make out. I'm kind of surprised. Actually, I feel like there's a certain sect of Christians that would be like, see? There's a movie in that. Like, there's, I'm surprised that we haven't had, because obviously alternate takes on Jesus abound. I'm very interested to see what this, I mean, this movie feels like a Terence Malick influenced take on. If a Terence Malik movie had scripted dialogue, yes.

Right, but so now we've got a Terrence Malik movie in the works about the life of Jesus, where pronounce his name because you do it better than I do, the guy from Son of Saul. Geigeruig. Gezhar Roig. Playing Jesus, which I'm interested in. I understand complicated feelings about Son of Saul, but that performance is just unreal. Yeah. Sometimes you need to film a movie where the camera is affixed to the backshed to the backshould.

shoulder of your main character for the entire time, and that's just sort of how it goes. I'm interested to see what a Malik movie brings to this story beyond what maybe is expected, because it feels like we can almost, like, play the Terrence Malick Jesus movie in our heads before even seeing it, right? 1,000 percent, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So there's maybe not fields of... I'll still be excited to see it.

There's maybe not fields of wheat in Galilee at this time, but certainly... Maybe we'll do a hidden life sometime. We feel like talking about a three-hour movie, because that's a movie I would like to revisit, and I do think is quite good. I've still never seen it, but I've heard very good things. Nothing happened for that movie. Yeah.

It was one of those movies that I was like, I will see this movie if it gets an Oscar nomination for, like, cinematography or whatever, and it didn't, and then other things sort of jumped it in the queue, as often happens. Yeah. Shiawata Lejefour and Tahar Rahim, Talk about the two of them.

I've talked about them enough, but I think they're both very good and very interesting in this movie. I almost brought this up earlier. This is two very recent Chitale-A-4 movies back-to-back for us. And, like, for such a talented actor, it's a real bummer that, like, he's just somewhat regularly in these roles that don't serve him.

Like, I would be more interested watching him play Jesus than playing this Peter role. that's, like, purely functional in the story. Oh, interesting. And, like, you know, Chiwital EGiophor can give more than what a lot of these roles are asking of him. And it's, like, you can see why he's in those, why he's cast in those roles, because he's a very compelling actor. Yeah. And, like, you know, secret in their eyes.

Yeah. He has to carry the movie. And I think he does, but it's like, it doesn't ask much of him beyond that. Like, he can, he can do that. Those, these are easy muscles for him to flex. But I want to see him afforded more opportunity than that. I hear what you're saying with that. I think the role as written doesn't require a ton of capital P performance out of him.

I do feel like he's very interesting in a very interesting role in the movie. Again, that's where I feel like the heart of this movie sort of stands. I like this depiction of Peter as a sort of tactical revolution. who is always looking at how this movement can ultimately lead to, you know, freeing the Jewish people from the Roman rule. And I think he plays the conflict that he has, not only the conflict that he has but this sort of like kind of low simmering conflict that he has with Jesus, which doesn't ever really boil over, but like clearly.

there is some doubt and maybe some resentment towards Jesus, where he was, where he's sort of impatient with Jesus to just like start talking, start becoming the firebrand that I maybe need you to be to lead this movement to overthrow this, you know, ruling occupiers that we have in the Romans. And in the same way that I find Tahar Rahim's performance really effective. And he, plays those same notes too, right? He is very much, he plays this, like, he has much more of a blind loyalty to Jesus early on because he's so, he just so believes that Jesus is going to deliver what he wants out of this movement. And Peter is the same thing. But he is much, much more disillusioned when, you know, they go into Jerusalem and it doesn't happen. And I think

he's so, the heartbreak, there's heartbreak on his face in those last scenes that he has that I find very affecting. I think he's really good. Yeah. He's a really good actor. I had kind of been quietly hoping he would get that Oscar nom for the Mauritanian during the pandemic, which was a movie I didn't like, but I think he's an interesting actor. If I were to crown, if I were to crown the like the pandemies, right? It's just like the movies that feel most of that year. That and portrait of a woman. Or pieces of a woman.

I was going to say, not portrait of a woman. Pieces of a woman is a good example of that. Or the Rosamond Pike Golden Globe winner, I care a lot. I care a lot. That's another one where it's just like, that to me, doesn't exist outside of that bubble. Yeah, those are, yeah, those are movies that would have faded away. No, I've been kind of reading for him because I think he's a good actor. His filmography is somewhat chill, so, like, we could talk about that.

if we ever did the Mauritainean. Yeah. But, like, you want to... He's so hot that you want to see him cast as, like, hymbo in some type of spectacle. He's also one of those people. He's sort of a Mark Strong a little bit, where I'm getting better at recognizing him. I don't want to put the face blindness, Sienna-Miller thing on him, because I do think he's an incredible... I mean, I also think Sienna-Miller has it in her to be incredibly interesting in things.

But he's one of those faces that tends to... to blend into his characters for a while, where I'm trying to think of, like, something that I've seen recently, where I'm like, oh, that is Tahar Rahim, isn't it? We recently talked about a prophet, which he is the star of Antrimandeson.

Yes. Oh, it was this, God, this Apple TV Plus series that I reviewed called Extrapolations. It's always an Apple TV show. Yeah, that's the big star-studded anthology show about, like, climate change is just going to get worse and worse and worse,

and, like, Merrill's in it and all these other people. And so he's in, like, this one episode, and it's, like, halfway through the episode. I'm like, that guy kind of looks like a Tahar Rahim type. Let me look it up and, like, oh, yep, it's Taharahim, of course. Yeah, that's what it was. He's good, though. I really think he's great in this movie, not just because he is a hot Judas. As, like I said, Hot Judas feels like the title of another, the Judas-focused movie should be called Hot Judas, I think.

And let Lady Gaga do the entire soundtrack to that. Maybe it's a musical. Hot Judas should be a Gregorocky movie. What's Judas's big song in Jesus Christ Superstar? Superstar. Oh, right, of course. He's the one who I, thinking of that show, which I have seen,

and I'm pretty sure I've seen the movie, maybe not. His character and John the Baptist's character sort of sometimes blend in my head in terms of like who has what songs. Sure, sure, sure, sure. Yeah, you're right. He has superstar. He is the best character in that show.

Right? I mean, Mary Magdalene gets to do, I don't know how to love him. Okay, expound on that. You're bringing the ALW into this episode, so talk about Mary Magdalene and Jesus Christ Superstar. Much respect to Sarah Borrellas' version, which I think is very beautiful. Emmy nominated.

Indeed. Also, Helen Reddy's version of I Don't Know How to Love Him is also beautiful. We had Ivana Elman in the teaser, and no one has gotten it. yet. That's true. Okay, I don't know how to love him. I don't know if I like that song.

You don't like the song or you don't like the meaning of the song? No, I like as it hits my ear, I'll flip to a different song. Have you listened to the Sarah Borrellas's version? I love Sarah Borrellas's voice. It's probably the version I would stick with the longest because I do love the quality of her voice. I just don't think it's a very exciting or interesting. song. How do you feel about everything's all right?

Which really, like, Mary just repeats the... It is. Remember the Jesus Christ Superstar? This is where I was a transparent. I was going to say, are you going to talk about Transparent? Yes. The Jesus Christ Superstar stuff and Transparent. I loved it.

I loved it. was good. Transparent is a, especially in retrospect, show with a lot of problems. Thorny subject. But I thought at when it was at its highest moments, and there were a lot of high points in that show. it delivered for me. Catherine Hahn on that show, incredible. Judith Light on that show.

Yeah, I, yeah, the Jesus Christ Superstar. What was the name of Judith Light's character's show that? Oh, what was her, well, what was her character's name? Because it was a play on her character. What was the name of that show? Right, but it was a play on her character's name. It was Shelly. It wasn't like just Jack, but it was something.

Because her character's name was Shelly, right? I think it was, she abbreviated it to Shell for the show. So it's like, speaking of 90s music when she does a hand in my pocket. Oh, yeah. Tremendous. Tremendous television.

Yeah. Hold on. It was called to shellen back. So you were on the right track. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yep. Yep. That's perfect. That's perfect. God, we had a great moment of Judith Light.

and it feels like... Two Tony Awards, back to back, plus transparent. Plus, she was in a bunch of other things. Yeah, the... Honestly, the Judith Light Revival began with Ugly Betty. I stand by this. Where she starts off... Judith Light Revival Revival.

100%. But she showed up on that show, and I don't think she had been in anything major for quite a while, maybe since Who's the Boss. Like, I'm sure she had done theater and whatever, but she hadn't been, like, in anything major, I don't think. And then she shows up an ugly betty in something that probably could have been like a couple episodes. She's the, she's the, whatever, Daniel's mother.

She's the sort of matriarch of the family that owns the magazine. And she's so good on that show. And she ends up getting in it more and more and more. And that was back when the Emmys would do shortlists for the acting categories. And she would show up on, she almost got nominated a couple of years for, that performance. And that kind of, I think, brought her back into the consciousness. And she ended up getting a ton more TV work after that. And then, of course, she gets the two back-to-back Tony Awards winning for essentially the same type of role in both of those times. But I saw both of those shows,

and I thought she was very good in both of them. And then she's in like, did you watch the American Crime Story season about the Versace season? The Versace season. Oh, she has. has an episode in that where she's a fucking knockout. She's so good. She plays the widow. I believe you. She plays the widow of the sort of wealthy, elderly victim that he kills in

I want to say maybe Chicago. And she fucking kills it. She's so goddamn good. One of the reasons I most disliked the menu, a movie I really didn't like. It just gives Judith Lydn't have nothing to do

what the fuck is wrong with you. Yep. I agree. I agree. Rewrite the script if you cast her or something to do. All right. What else do we want to talk? Very natural.

We talked about Judith Light in an episode about Jesus. All I have to say about that. Anything else on the movie before we move into the IMDB game? No, I think maybe we've, let me see if there's anything else in my notes. Oh, I did feel like, tell me how you, and I don't think it was like a fatal problem with the movie. A movie that I still feel like is pretty middling. There were a few times where the dialogue was very obviously modern, but not in a way that, like, we're doing modern Mary Magdalene, where it was like, just sort of turns a phrase where she's like, she's telling Shira Haas, like, you can take it. You can take it for, for a minute, you know, talking about like the pain of childbirth or whatever. And it's like, that's not a phrase that existed back then. Like, that's, I just, that took me out of it a few times. And then. Oh, the baptism.

We haven't talked about the baptism scene where Jesus baptizes her in this, like... It's the horniest baptism you've ever seen. It's so horny. Thank you. Thank you, Chris. We are very much connected on this movie. It's a very erotic baptism scene. That comes on the heels of, like, not too long after she's, you know, her family's trying to exercise her.

Which is, you know, they're also trying to drown her while they do it. so obviously the juxtaposition is intentional there but yeah it's a very very sexy baptism scene so good for good for mary magdalen would you like to explain the iMtb game for our listeners yes i was just going to say miss mary mag mag mag as i said and i tried to find other rhymes to uh to continue that and i couldn't do it okay sorry i mdb game um uh well every week we end our episodes with the i mdb game where we challenge each other with an actor or actress and try and guess the top four titles that IMDB says they are most known for.

If any of those titles are television, voice only performances, or non-acting credits, we mentioned that up front. After two wrong guesses, we get the remaining titles release years as a clue, and if that's not enough, it just becomes a free-for-all of hints. Spectacular. Would you like to give her guess first? I'm going to give first because I'm going to say up front that this is a dumb one, and this is one where I think the best you're going to be able to do is get three, and I just want to talk about it because there's a fourth one that's absolutely insane, and we just need to have this conversation and sort of talk about it and get it out in the open.

Okay, I will know that going in. Maybe that will make me guess the insane. So we've had other people throughout the years play the role of Mary Magdalene in films are on television, Anne Bancroft, who we've previously done on the IMDB game. played Mary Magdalene in Jesus of Nazareth, I believe. I believe it was Mary Magdalene. I don't think she played Mary the Mother of God, although now, give me a second.

I don't want to be wrong in front of all these other Catholics who are going to judge me, because Lord knows I watch a Jesus of Nazareth enough times, either in school or on TV. Was that just like when you're in Catholic school and they just roll out a TV on a cart, they just show you Jesus of Nazareth? But that's also when, like,

when your dad is my dad, and he, like, my dad loves all of those old, like, you know, biblical epics or whatever. He's not, like, my dad's religious, but, like, he's not, like, you know, the most religious person, but he loves all of those, like, old religious people. It's a genre. He enjoys. And so Jesus of Nazareth, we watched a bunch of times. Yes, Anne Van Croft played Mary Magdalene.

Wait, this is an all-star cast. Yeah, it's a lot of famous people. James Mason as Joseph of Arimathea, Ian McShane as John. Judas Ascariot. Lawrence Olivier is in this movie. This is the one where I think Donald Pleasance plays the devil. Christopher Plummer as Herod. Anthony Quinn is in this movie. Holy shit. Ralph Richardson, Rod Steiger, Peter Eustinoff,

Ernest Borgeny, Valentina Corteza, like Stacey Keech. This is a crazy cast. And Olivia Hussi played Mary, the mother of God. Anyway, anyway. Monica Balucci has played Mary Magdalene in The Passion of Christ, as we know. The one I am bringing to the table is the woman who played Mary Magdalene famously in The Last Temptation of Christ. Or Hershey.

A movie that imagines sort of has a bit of a reverie where Jesus and Mary Magdalene get together and have a child together. And it's all sort of, that is the titular last temptation, right? You can have a life as a normal person with this beautiful woman who you love, and that is your last temptation. Get down off of the cross and yada, yada, yada. So I'm going to ask you for the known for Barbara Hershey. A Portrait of a Lady, her Oscar nomination? No. Not that.

Oh, interesting. Last Temptation of Christ. No. Okay. So two strikes right off of the bat. Great. Great. Your years are 1986, 1996, 1993, 2003, and 2010.

And I'll just tell you right off of the bat that... 2010's Black Swan. Yes, the 2010s, Black Swan. The crazy one is 2003. So you also have 86 and 93. Is that mean no beaches? I think beaches is like 88. Is 86 beaches?

No. Beaches is 88. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. No beaches. Yeah. If anyone was wondering, I know that your beaches can.

came out, I am gay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, same. Same, same, same. What the hell then? He said 86 and 93. Yeah, 86 is a very, very well-known movie. She's on the poster. 86 was a big year for her because she was in actually two movies that got Oscar nominations,

but this is the one that got the most Oscar nominations. 86. Yeah. that's that's not that's the year after out of Africa yes she's on the poster with two other women enemies a love story no that's 89 damn she's on the poster with two other women one of whom won the Oscar that year oh 86 86 between out of Africa and the last emperor what is that movie. What's that best picture winner between those two?

Platoon is the best picture winner between those two. Oh, okay. So not Platoon. Not Platoon. It's not Barbara Hershey's Platoon. No, lost Best Picture to Platoon. Oh, my God.

What is it? This director, it's one of his more, it's one of his most Oscar-Lodded movies, I will say, and he's had quite a few, including a best picture winner. Huh. Okay, so it was a big winner in 86.

Controversial slash canceled director. That's the big clue. Woody out. Oh, Hannah and her sisters? Yes, Hannah and her sisters. Yes. Barbara Hershey on that poster with Mia Farrow and Diane Weist. Diane Weist won the Oscar that year and Best Supporting Actress. All right, 1993. This one you might not remember. You may have not even seen this movie. Is it a boy movie?

Yeah. Like, not in that way. Not in, like, a, it's not like heat or anything like that. Although it is a movie very much about, like, male rage. I mean, I like heat. I dog on its fans on this podcast, but I like heat. But, like, you would call Heat a boy movie, even though I know there are many people. When I say boy movie, I mean, like, Platoon.

Yeah, no, it's not Platoon. I mean Stephen Seagall. Directed by a director who has died with. than the last several years, although it's not the first movie you think of when you think of that director, so maybe that's not going to be super helpful. Starring an Oscar winner,

a very distinctive haircut. From 93. She plays... What is the nature of her? She's either, like, the love intro, like, the wife who sort of is fretting over what's all happening

or like maybe the person he is sort of fixing. Is this some type of legal thriller? I assume it's not an Oscar nominee. No, not an Oscar nominee. Give me a second to figure out the nature. It's been so long since I've seen it.

Oh, she's the ex-wife. Right. She's the ex-wife of the main character. This is definitely a movie about a guy who has an ex-wife. That's very much part of his vibe. So the protagonist is like a dirtbag. It's not like, it's not a dirtbag.

The whole point of the movie is like this person was pushed over the edge. Falling down? Yes, falling down. There you go. Did not remember her being in that movie, Joel Schumacher. Exactly. But it's not like, when you think of like, what are the Joel Schumacher movies? You never really think of like falling down as being a signature Joel Schumacher movie.

But that's part of his whole deal, right? Is that like he has, what are you laughing at? What's so funny? I'm like. Classifying, falling down as a movie about a guy that definitely has an ex-wife. But, right? But right? Like, that's part of, like, that's definitional to that guy's character.

We need to make a genre of this. Movies about a guy who definitely has an ex-wife. Yeah, 100%. All right. So. It's so toxic that I'm laughing at this. That 2003 movie. I had never heard about this thing

I had never heard about this director but the cast of this movie is like pretty well stacked it's Barbara Hershey's in it Hillary Swank is in it Henry Thomas Colin Hanks Ben Foster Patrick did say Patrick Swayze

Clark Gregg Sean Hadassie Jason Siegel Rachel Lee Cook The log line is the events leading up to a car crash from five very different It's one of those posters that's like fractured shattered glass and each chart of glass has a different character on it. I mean, it's Hillary Swank right before her second Oscar.

Right. And remember how her career like really dipped in between Oscars where it was like she made the core and it flopped and they were like, never again. And then she was back on top. Yeah. And she's like the third lead of the core. Yeah. This is a movie that's available to watch on two. TV. Of course.

Also available to watch on 2B TV, Mary Magdalene. Let me see if this movie has an actual release. It's like the poster is like shattered glass. It's about a car crash with Hillary Swank.

Yes. I feel like I should know about it. Alaska Daily herself. Alaska Daily herself. It's one of those movies that like each like has different like segments and each segment is a different character experience. the same event. Because we didn't get enough of those in the 90s.

92% fresh and rotten tomatoes based on only 12 reviews. That's wild. Okay. That's interesting. Also, this is before crash, before Paul Haggis' crash. Exactly. It was, wait, it played can. It...

Not in competition. I can't imagine. No. Maybe it was like director's Fortniteers. debuted at Cannes. Hold on. That's crazy. Yeah, premiered at the Cannes Film Festival, also screened at TIF in 2003. Limited theatrical release. I've never heard of this, nor have I heard of the filmmaker. The director and writer is a man named Greg Marks, M-A-R-C-K-S. Never heard of him. Same. He hasn't made any other movie of any kind of note whatsoever.

Nothing is, you're never going to get it. It's a movie called 11.000. like literally like the time on like the time like the time of the crash the time of the time of the crash I've truly never heard of this never ever ever and that movie is on Barbara Hershey's known for above beaches above beaches above beaches above the portrait of a lady above what were the other ones last temptation of Christ last temptation of Christ insidious which like made all that money oh yeah she's in that one um the The list is just Hoosiers. That was the other

1986 movie that she was in that had an Oscar nomination. As you can imagine, I have not seen Hoosiers. Hoosiers is a boy movie. Hoosiers is a movie that we watched and like rolled in on a VCR. Literally like the last day before Easter vacation when nobody wanted to do anything.

They just showed Hoosiers. When they would bring that shit out during school, that's when I like loudly crack open a book. She's in Swing Kids as a character named Frow Mueller, So that's fun. Got it. Yeah, that's deeply, deeply wild.

That tin men, the natural, the right stuff. Like, come on, y'all. Let's fix this. Fix it. Fix it, Steve. Fix it. Justice for Barbara. All right. Give me what you chose for the anime.

Someone who, I guess, surprisingly, because it's not in our spreadsheet that we haven't done, you went the Mary Magdalene route. I went the Jesus route. of people who have previously played the role of Yezou-Gris Day from the film Last Days in the Desert directed by Rodrigo Garcia, Mr. Ewan McGregor. U.N. All right. Okay. Let's see.

Moulin Rouge. Correct. Train spotting. Correct. Big fish? Incorrect. Tim Burton usually shows up pretty well on these IMDBs, which is why I guess.

that. Sorry, I'm not cheating. I'm just clicking on this one Barbara Hershey movie because I think Joe Cole is in this, based on this photo. And I'm like, is that Joe Cole without the schnaz? No, it's not Joe Cole. Never mind. That prosthetic nose from Secret in their eyes

has been haunting me for weeks. Okay. Moulin Rouge. What did I say? Train spotting. And Big Fish have been your guesses. Star Wars episode? I need an answer.

Okay, so here's the conundrum. Usually, when it's only one of a franchise, it's the first one. But he's a much bigger part of episode three. So I'm going to say episode three, Revenge of the Sith. Incorrect. So you're getting your years. Okay. Your years are 2013 and 2017.

Oh, so not a Star Wars. Okay. Or at least not. There are no, there's... No Obi-Wans. No... There might be a war, but there's no Star Wars. A war of some kind.

But they do not take base in space in the past. 2013 and 2017. Correct. 2017, I should know, right? right like maybe oh maybe not no 2017 is too early for dr sleep 2013 oh my god of course every single goddamn person in this movie in augustosage county i august houseage county he's truly the forgotten member of that cast though i never because he's miscast yeah very much um not only miscast for the role but miscast as julia robert's husband who decided that

Who made that decision? John Wells. 2017. It is absolutely bad shit that this is on here and a Star Wars isn't. So it's not like Winnie the Pooh. Was he in Winnie the Pooh or Christopher Robin? Christopher Robin, sorry. It was Christopher Robin.

Yes, Christopher Robin. Quistopher Wobbin. Oh, that's the same thing. Yeah, it is. Yes. No, but the title. You were right about the title. Right.

Written by Alex Ross Perry. I know. The whiplash from that and to her smell truly... Listen, if he wrote that movie so her smell can exist, God bless. God bless. All right, 2017. Was it a hit? No.

Absolutely not. Absolutely not. Does it exist? No. Okay. Great. No. Is he the lead?

He's definitely the lead. It is not. a hit. It is not a movie anyone asked for, but it, uh... Is it, like, connected to any other movies? Oh, yeah, it's a sequel. Oh, it's a sequel? Is it Sicario 2? Day of the... He's not in Sicario 2. Whatever. What's the Sicario sequel called? Something Solidato? Yeah, yeah. Racist bullshit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Um, I don't know why that jumped into my mind. Um, it's a sequel.

He's not in the first one. He is in the first one. Oh, interesting. Is it like... Joseph. Is it a genre? Is it sort of like a... Action or a comedy or a horror?

No, it is a movie that he is the lead of both. He is the lead of both. And no one asked for this to have a sequel from the original. It is maybe 20 years after the original. Okay. I think you don't know that this sequel exists. No, I know that this sequel exists, but it's dumb. Is it train spotting 2?

T2? It's train spotting 2. I don't understand why this shows up in IMDB games. There was in somebody else's IMDB game too. Maybe Kelly McDonald's or something like that. Some. I think it was in Kelly McDonald's, yeah. Yeah.

I don't understand. Nobody saw this movie. Nobody wanted train spotting 2. Why did they make train spotting 2? Who knows? Nobody knows. I feel less bad that it took me that long to get to that, because, yeah, that is truly a forgotten movie. I was trying not to say it was a sequel because I was like, oh, then he's going to guess train spotting, too. But no.

T2, TrainSpotter. That was 2013. I thought that movie was after. No, 2017. Oh, that was 2017. 2013 was, was, have I gotten 2013 yet? Or I'm still waiting on 2013. That was Augustosso.

That was Augustosage. Of course. Sorry. These things are slipping out of my mind. I'm existing out of space. I'm, uh... Let's move on from this accursed, uh... Game of the IMDV game.

Truly, okay, yes. We'll move on. Uh, we'll meet you next week. Listeners, that's our episode. If you want more, This Had Oscar Buzz. You can check out the Tumblr at thisheadoscarbuzz.com. You should also follow us on Twitter at had underscore Oscar underscore Buzz, and on Instagram at at This Had Oscar Buzz.

Joe, where can the listeners find more of you? Well, as you know, uh, the blue checkmarks are going away. So it's not even worth it to find me on Twitter anymore because what's the use? Yidi-I-I-A-D, whatever. Twitter and letterbox at Joe Reed, readspald R-E-I-D. And I am also on Twitter and letterbox at Krispy File. That's F-E-I-L.

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