This Had Oscar Buzz - 240 – Private Life

Episode Date: April 24, 2023

We have another movie we adore to discuss this week! Writer/director Tamara Jenkins has long gaps between films, but has nevertheless delivered an all-killer-no-filler lineup, beginning in the late 1990s with Slums of Beverly Hills and returning a decade later with the Oscar-nominated The Savages. Her next film another decade later, Private Life, starred Kathryn … Continue reading "240 – Private Life"

Uh-oh, wrong house. No, the right house. No, I didn't get that! We want to talk to Marilynne Heck. Having a baby is an immoral act, overpopulation, climate change, rise of neo-fascism. Did you take your valium? Yes? Why?

They're trying it by any means necessary approach. I thought they were done with all that and they were trying to adopt. They're still doing that. They're like fertility junkies. Your best chance for success is with the donor egg. He's out of his mind. There's a lot of positives. Oh, it's easy for you.

you to say. You'll have your genetic contribution. And me, I'm just left out. Hello and welcome to the This Had Oscar Buzz podcast, the only podcast that's good here, Sandra. Every week on This Had Oscar Buzz we'll be talking about a different movie that once upon a time had Lofty Academy Award aspirations. But for some reason or another, it all went wrong. The Oscar hopes died and we're here to perform the autopsy. I'm your host, Chris Fyle, and I'm here, as always, with my half quarter of Locke's Joe Reed. It's Lock. Of Wild Nova, of Wild Nova. I wrote it down this time. I always remember it as Locke. Is that like a salmon substitute? What is Wild Nova?

I'm not a Lox person, so I don't know, but I would imagine, yes. I love a smoked salmon, but like, this will maybe get me shunned from the community. I don't like it on a bagel, mostly because it's like, it goes with cream cheese. I really hate cream cheese. See, I just like, cream cheese on a bagel is a perfect delicacy for me, and I don't need anything else. We've talked about some of, like, my picky eater behaviors, right? That I don't love soft white foods that aren't explicitly cheese, that aren't, like, queso.

Gotcha. That is a very specific niche, but I like that you have articulated it. It's why I don't, I mean, or ranch, because, you know, I'm from Ohio. Ranch is fine. Of course. I hate mayonnaise. Oh, interesting. Yeah, I love mayonnaise, obviously.

It makes me feel like I'm eating some type of. thing I shouldn't I don't know it makes me feel like it's so like in general like spreads are not your jam like a jam spread however I do like but like a cheese spread or uh I mean I love a heart like if it's a cube cheat like if it's a I can slice the cheese but like right but not like a it's fine I come around to Brie I'm not but like a fully spreadable like cheese dip cheese yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah That's fine. Not a pimento, please. Okay. All right. All right. It feels like it has a globule.

Okay. Are you like a casso fresco person? Oh, sure. That's lovely. Okay. Interesting. All right. All right.

A mascarpone person? Yes, but I don't like cream-filled things. I don't want to be able to bite into, I don't really even like even like a jelly donut. because I don't want to bite into something and have it, like, pop out at me, like, puss. Gotcha. Okay, so this is a texture thing. Unless it's a gusher. Excellent snack. Gushers are great.

We're figuring this out. This is why I sort of, I realized at some point a little while ago that, like, half of my problem with tomatoes is texture. I just don't like the texture of raw tomatoes. Raw tomato is bugger vegetable. It's either you have, you know, the meat of a tomato, which should, be cooked. Like, it's just, I love sour things. I love bitter things, but it's just, like, it's a sound thing that I hate. And then the, like, other parts of it is, like, eating a booger. This is also why, like, cucumbers is a no. But pickle that shit, but pickle that shit, and

I'm, I'm into it. You know what I mean? I love a pickle. But, but even on pickles, like, they have to be farther, the farther away from being cucumbers, the better, you know what I mean like those pickles that still feel very cucumbery no ma'am no ma'am not into it um very fitting that for such a new york movie we are having we're starting with a deli adjacent conversation yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah no speaking of which i don't really love lunch meats in general i don't love slimy slices of meat see see here's where we depart mountains may depart and what that title was referring to was us on this conversation uh speaking of mountains made apart perhaps um Do you want to talk a little bit about our May miniseries that is coming up next to?

Quite literally, because I watched a film for our May miniseries. Won't tell you how, but I watched Paradise Now this morning. I won't tell you how it relates. But I think people get to do once we say what it is. Anyway, spoiler. I watched Paradise Now his film that like put him on the map and then, you know, Fuck Mountains comes after that. We've got to do Fuck Mountain at some point.

Before we get into Private Life, a movie that I, I love very deeply, very much. Personal canon, cinema. One of my favorite movies of the past five years. Jason Robert Brown write a musical about my relationship to this movie over the past five years. The last five years is about me and the cinema of Tamara Jenkins. Anyway, Joe, this is our last episode before I'm in any series. I'm excited, Chris.

I'm excited to get into the next five weeks of the podcast, which are going to be spent. on one, this is a departure. It's a project that's stressing me out, I will say. It's not a good May miniseries if it's not stressing us out. But previously, we have just sort of themed our May offerings around a central hub, but it's been, you know, the same type of, you know, episode, traditional episode. We have done themes on the films of focus features.

We've done a Naomi Watts miniseries. We have done 2003, the film. films of 2003, we've done Entertainment Weekly, which was as much of a departure as we've gone, where those Entertainment Weekly episodes were half about the movie and half about the issue of Entertainment Weekly from that month, but, or from the week, actually. We're going to an even larger departure, an even bigger break of the form. I would even say to listeners, for the listeners who love when we go off on, say, tangents about lunch meat and, you know, what type of things we want on our bagel.

Yeah. This is almost entirely departures. Like, we're not, there's, there's an overarching concept to it, but we are going to be constantly bouncing around for five weeks. So our main miniseries, we are calling colloquially 100 years, 100 snubs. Now, if you ask, what hundred years are you talking about, guys? We're not going to specify that. We're not going to specify, much like the AIFI, you know.

We know it when we see it. Yeah. It is, you know, it is kind of a riff on like AIFI's 100 years, 100 movies. Please do not discourse this into the earth like people do with sight and sound. Right. And I think, no, this is not, this is not that serious. Please. But in general, the concept.

It's going to be a five-week tour through a history of. snubs now it's going to we are plotting this much like we do this show you know it is meat and potatoes type of big snubs it might also be personal canon it could be uh unexpected fun tours through things that we're going to justify what we say are snubs but we're also going to maybe uh give some actual nominees the boot while we do that that's yes we will be uh honoring our preferred snubs and then saying which of the actual nominee is that year in that category we would have booted out. These are category-specific snubs, so we will be able to talk about films that we wouldn't normally be able to cover on this podcast. We can talk about movies that got nominations elsewhere, but did not get nominated in a particular category, which we feel like the historical record needs to be corrected, amended, or at the very least talked about.

So we're going to do that for five straight weeks. We're going to do 20 snubs a week. Perhaps with some cameo appearances. Perhaps with some cameo appearances from some of our beloveds. We think it's going to be really fun. It's going to allow us to sort of touch on a lot of different types of movies, different types of categories. Sometimes we're going to dig into, you know, what was the production design of a particular movie that really deserved to be Oscar nominated and it wasn't. we're going to try and cover the calendar.

We are, as ever, limited by our experience, but we know you love us for that, question mark, or at least give us some leeway for that. We're going to try to make this fun. We're going to make it, you know, not the type of thing that, more fun than someone just complaining on the internet and more...

That's the tagline to this podcast. More fun than just people. complaining on the internet which you know sometimes we fail at but listen it's good to have a goal it's good to have something to strive for so if this kind of thing excites you we are glad we are we uh you're the audience we're going for if you guys want us to get back to just talking about regular movies we'll see you in the month of june and we hope you will be back um this is a diversion but it's we think it'll be a good one listen we are five plus years into this podcast, Jesus.

We're experimenting with the forum. We are trying something different simply because we can't in the month of May. Yes. That's our month to get wild and crazy. So we will hopefully see you here. You'll hear us in a week and we can start this journey together. A hundred years, 100 snubs, cue, the orchestral. I got to find a sound clip of just the AFI,

music that we can maybe throw in there. Briefly enough. From, you know, AFI, 100 years, 100 movies presentation. Well, you know, AFI years, 100 movies is fully available on YouTube and I have watched it. Which version is it, though? Is it the first one that they did? The first one, I think the second one is also available, but I watched the first one, which is hosted by Jody Foster, Richard Gear, there's like three, oh, and Sallie Field.

Surprised. It wasn't hosted by Carl Moulton, because at that point, Carl Maldon hosted the, like, Academy's Greatest Memories video. Yes, yes. Because was he still the Academy President when that was made, or was he previously an Academy President? He was previously an Academy President. I think his run stopped in, like, the early 90s, the very early 90s.

And the AFI list was mid-90s enough that Fargo made the list. I think Fargo was the most recent movie to have made the list. So I want to say this AIFI. Yeah, it was like in the 90s of the ranking, not, you know, just that. Right, right, yeah. But so I think the AFI, 100 movies, TV special was 1997. Can you imagine how fucking annoying the internet would have been when the first

A-F-I, 100 movies would have been if, like, Twitter exists? I know this is true of everything. That's not a unique or interesting thing for me to say. But, like, watching the absolute tears and widespread losing of everyone's shit over Jean Diehlman topping sight and sound. Right. Y'all are stupid. I mean, we're stupid.

So come listen to us next week. And have fun. Yes. Yes. Summer should be fun, and so it should be the month of May. All right. Do we want to transition into the private life? Speaking through a journey through time.

Yes. Private life. So Tamara Jenkins is reflection on time, growth, personal longing. She's getting deep. Seeing yourself and another person. The thing about Tamara Jenkins is, for all intents and purposes, she's made three feature films, right? Slums of Beverly Hills, her breakthrough, 1998. Her next feature is The Savages in 2007, so that is, if you're counting, nine years, then private life, not until 2018, which is 11 years.

So by that math, we are going to be waiting until the year 2031 for the next Tamara Jenkins movie. If trends continue. If it's been five years since private life, we're halfway to the next Tamara Jenkins movie. Yes, we can look at that. Although, again, if it goes from 9 to 11, I'm guessing if trends continue, then it's 13 years to the next movie. So what I'm saying is somebody give Tamara Jenkins just a lot of money, with no strings attached and just say, make your next movie soon. Well, when this movie came out, she talked about how, yeah, financing troubles are a thing,

but also the reason for her delay in making a movie is, like, it takes her time to figure out what she wants to make a movie about or who she wants to make a movie about. Yes. And there are elements of the personal in all three of her movies. Private Life, actually, the least of them all, I don't know if I had read anything about her specifically going through fertility-type stuff before Private Life, but even the thing where the Kaylee Carter character gets into that artist collective at the end of the movie in Saratoga Springs, like, that's the thing that Tamara Jenkins had gone to. The Savages is based in part on her dealing with older family members who had dementia. Slum's of Beverly Hills is pretty autobiographical about her father picking up the family. She had been born in Philadelphia, picked up the family and moved to Beverly Hills when they were younger.

So there's definitely like elements of herself in these movies, which we love. All three of these movies make a good impression on me of like Tamara Jenkins seems like a cool person, like a cool, fun person. I'd like to. I saw... The batting average is high. Yeah. It could not be higher. Yes. I think it was the Tribeca Film Festival the one year, the year that Tully came out, which

would have been this same year, right? Yes. Tamara Jenkins hosted the Q&A with Jason Reitman and Diablo Cody at the Tribeca Film Festival that year that I went to. And she just seemed like a cool, chill person. what I mean? Like, sometimes those Tribeca Q&A's really interesting. I remember one year, it was

Bryce Dallas Howard interviewing Bira Nair, which was a very interesting conversation and, likeable, but it was one of those things where I walked out of there, and I'm like, Bryce Dallas Howard has not lived a normal day in her entire life. Like, it just felt like, she just comes from rarefied air, and that's

just the way it is with some people, and that is fine. I also didn't know before researching for this movie that Tamara Jenkins is married Jim Taylor of, speaking of Paul Giamatti, a writer of Sideways and Election, and how many of the, just, it was through Sideways? I think so. In terms of the Alexander Payne movies? I believe so, right?

Yeah. Yeah, I don't know about Citizen Ruth. I think so. I don't know. Anyway, Jim Taylor, a very, very talented writer, Academy Award winner for Sideways, I believe, right? Sometimes they misremember these things as, like, the way that they should be, rather than they are. And it was one of those things where, because was that year that Sideways and Eternal Sunshine both won the Screenplay Awards? That's a good year.

Good for you, Oscars in 2004. We don't always get that, so that's pretty fun. So, yeah, this is one of your, this is one of your movies. This is a movie for me. I mean, I think Tamara Jenkins. This was like your number two of that year, I want to say, right? This was like your number two of 2018, if I remember correctly. It's up there.

2018, I think, is an incredible year for movies. I mean, my number one was if Beal Street could talk. There's also the favorite. There's, can you ever forgive me? There is Coriata's shoplifters. Yep. Widows. Widows was my number one that year.

Yeah, a very, very good year for movies. And an interesting year, and we'll get into this, too, for Netflix. This was a very pivotal year for Netflix and their original films, and especially when it comes to the Oscars. This was the year that they made the decision to really get into, like, to make the full court press on the Oscars. They had been snubbed sort of infamously in 2015 for Beasts of No Nation, which is a good movie, but it is not a movie that I was ever surprised, got snubbed by the Oscars because it is really bleak. It is, it's, how do you feel about Beasts of No Nation?

I mean, I think it's a really good movie. Idris Elba is really great. It was interesting that he didn't, I mean, he even won the sag, too, that he didn't, that he didn't get the nomination because even early on in this whole, you know, debate of Netflix getting into the Oscars

and such, you know, it never, the exception to the rule always seems to be for performances and actors, you know, the acting branch seems least, you know, of a holdout in regards to considering it

a film rather than television or, you know, whatever you want to classify this as. That was also a movie that, when did it actually drop on Netflix? It was pretty early, I think. It was either September or October.

It played TIF because that's where I saw it. And then I think it opened not too long after that. So yeah, September or October sounds about right. Yeah. And like, but like, contributing to the weirdness. is probably also not really the Academy taste

to... I think contributing to that, though, was the fact that Idris Elba won the SAG Award, which was an interesting timing thing because the SAG awards were voted on after the Oscar nominations happened, and those Oscar nominations were the ones that, you know, the Oscar So White controversy, you know, happened with. And then all of a sudden these SAG voters were like, yeah. And, you know, which is not to say that, like, Idris Elba wouldn't have won the SAG without that controversy, but I think it sort of opened people's eyes a little bit to some things, and...

And he's incredible in the movie. Sure, yeah. And that was a weird supporting actor year anyway. Well, also probably the first... Because that's also the year Mark Rylance one, correct? Or was that the previous? And I think Stallone wasn't nominated for the SAG, is the other thing. Wasn't that the case?

I don't remember that, but also, whether he was nominated or not, it should have been a sign. Because, leading up to the Oscars, you know, Rylance was something of a surprise. But I think the smart people who were like, actually,

Hollywood does not care for Mr. Stallone, uh, were catching. Yeah, so get this. The SAG nominees that year, Stallone was not nominated. Uh,

Idris Elbow wins. Also nominated were Mark Rylance for Bridge of Spies and Christian Bale for the Big Short, who were also Oscar nominated. Along with them, it was Michael Shannon for 99 Homes, who had appeared, I think he had also gotten a Golden Globe nomination.

I think he had gotten, I think he got, like, the thing about Michael Shannon is he's going to get Oscar nominated when there's like no precursor attention for it. But when he gets precursor attention, he does not get an Oscar nomination. Right. And so 99 Holmes was the, was the latter. And then Jacob Tromblay for Room, which feels like a very sag nomination. They were the ones who nominated Dakota Fanning for I.M. Sam. They'll nominate a little kids sometimes. And I remember that sort of caused a little bit of like, is Tromblay going to get an Oscar nomination? nomination. There was a little bit of a drumbeat there for that among people who were predicting. But so no Stallone. So without the frontrunner in the field, which SAG also did in 2018, the year of private life, where they didn't nominate Regina King for supporting actress. And so it's like, who's going to win? And it's just like, well, why not Emily Blunt, who is not a supporting actress in a quiet place? But she's very good in that movie. yes so all of which is to say at the other end of the plot description I want to get into Netflix's big sort of strategy surge in 2018 because that's a big part of this story and it's part of the reason why this movie Private Life kind of got swallowed up by that Oscar season I'm not sure even at my most optimistic I'm not sure if Private Life ever had much of a shot at Netflix. This is a movie that really needed to be at a searchlight or at a million percent. Yeah.

I think Netflix is the exact wrong place for a movie like this. And it's interesting because why I also want to talk about that this was an era in like 2017, 2018, where Netflix was giving, was, you know, distributing movies from these revered indie directors. and it never really panned out until, well, we'll talk about it. But, like, I think marriage story is the sort of the exception that proves the rule, or maybe like the culmination of Netflix finally figuring out how to market a movie by one of those types of filmmakers, but we'll get into it. Well, and that's also in the middle of Bombach's deal with Netflix, because I'm pretty sure he signed a deal to do three movies with Netflix.

Right. Yeah. Yes. Yes, exactly. But we'll talk about that when we get into it. I should tell you I have once again failed to prepare a plot description, so I'm going to be winging it for this movie, which is going to be tough because there's a lot of fertility types and jargons and, you know, procedures.

I think of the listeners, no, we're not doctors here. No, but I want to, there's a lot of phases to their first. fertility journey in this movie. So it's going to take up a little bit of time. There's also time jumps in the movie as well, both forward and backwards. There's interesting family dynamics that have to be a little bit like unknotted in terms of who's really related to who by blood. But yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. A modern American family. Hey, listen, if we're all, we're all connected by our common Russ and daughters, Biali orders. So, Um, I've, Biali is another, speaking of going back to deli food stuff. Biali is another thing that I will never quite understand. Just get a bagel. Just get a bagel.

Nothing's better than a everything bagel with butter. Cream cheese, but yes. No, no, no. A nice salty butter on a salty bagel. Okay. That's habit. I'm more of a salt person than you. I like butter.

You're not going to, like, get me to say it unkind word about butter, so that's fine. But yeah, Biali is. Why? Why are you? Why do you exist? Get at us in the comments. Let's get into the plot discussion. Let's get into it before we get into a fight about butter. The motion picture butter. Oh, God, which I've never seen. It's surprising. Listeners, we're here talking about the motion picture private life, written and directed by the great Tamara Jenkins, starring Catherine Hahn, Paul Giamatti, Kaylee Carter, Molly Shannon, John Carroll, Lynch for, or four, six-timers club participant John Carroll Lynch.

As of this episode, we will get into it. We're kind of in a moment of talking about all these character actors. We did two DeNorris episodes back-to-back. We've now done two Hetty and Park movies back-to-back, where she is great in 30 seconds of screen time. Yep. So what is your experience of her beyond, because I know her. from Hannibal she was she was she was a lab tech on Hannibal I don't even know if I finished the last

season I got like maybe halfway through it it doesn't end super well but like it it it reaches but it's one of those shows it's like big love in that way where the the end of its penultimate season has it on such a peak that you're like there really is kind of nowhere to go but down from there but um yes loved Hannibal uh yes yes love her on that, I mean, everybody's great on that show. And, uh, of course, showing up for two seconds in a movie and really just making a meal of very short amount of time. Yeah.

Also starring Chavon Pallin Hogan, Emily Robinson, and Dennis O'Hare. Dennis O'Hare is so funny in this movie. In a not funny role, but like he brings so much humor to. So annoying. He's, he's, he's so funny. because he's quintessential annoying doctor. Every time he, like, will pop up in between, in the frame between their legs as they're, like, having some sort of, like, either Catherine Hahn or Kaylee Carter is having some sort of procedure done, and he'll just sort of, like, pop up and be that sort of folksy, friendly doctor in a way that seems so annoying. Fist bumping Paul Giamatti after talking about his testicles to him, like, there is nothing more annoying on this planet than a doctor requesting a.

fist bump, like, I don't know, you're talking to me about my cholesterol, dude, leave me alone. Oh, Dennis O'Hare's so good. Straight and stop weaponizing your fist bumps. This is also a movie that this is not the kind of movie that you often think of as being very directorly, but like there are like eight billion choices that she makes in this movie that are, like, that are funny or that are poignant or that are telling and it's all in like, the shots she decides to make, right?

We're going to get into it, but, like, she just, she, why she has such a vision, why I respond to her as a filmmaker, is she has such a point of view of the world. And in each of her movies, maximizes the full potential to make you see and understand and be entertained or feel seen by her point of view. Yeah. I'm excited to hear you sort of go off. this about this movie because I feel like you're going to

have a lot to say and I'm very excited about that. I always have a lot to say about her movies. I love her movies. I wish I had had time to rewatch The Savages and Slums of Beverly Hills before this, but I did not... I've been meaning to do have Slums of Beverly Hills rewatch for a while. That is a movie It's on Hulu right now. No,

it's on HBO right now. In our current Natasha Leon climate, I deeply want to go back and watch that. She did one of those... She's amazing. She's perfect in it. She did one of those videos. I want to say for Vanity Fair, but maybe not sort of like going through her old roles and talking about her co-stars and whatnot. And she mentions that like she and Marissa Tomey are still like in contact pretty often from Slums of Beverly Hills, which I love. I really want to see another Tamara Jenkins movie with either or both of them at the point that they're in their careers now because like it would just be perfect.

It would be another perfect Tamer Jenkins movie. Anyway, Private Life premiered at Sundance in 2018. Uh, I, it feels like this was the first year, uh, that this discourse was happening where people are like, all these movies that have distribution already. Why are they at Sundance? Uh, I, like, not that I am dissing this movie in any way, but what I will say is about it getting like indie spirit nominations and such. I'm like, even if it's at a low enough budget, if a movie is produced by Netflix, how is that different than if it's produced? by Warner Brothers, you know. I feel like that's the spirit more than the indie, you know what I mean? If we're defining terms, I think Private Life certainly does have the spirit of an independent film. So I don't necessarily mind that too much. But I understand what you're saying about it.

I just feel like there is no such thing as an independent Netflix movie unless a movie is produced and Netflix buys it, like passing. This movie was funded and produced by Netflix. set up with Netflix by Tamara Jenkins. We need to get to this flat description. We're having so many diversions. Anyway, the movie kind of disappeared until New York Film Fest and then premiered on Netflix and in very few theaters, we'll get into it, October 5th, 2018. Yes.

This was before, this was when Netflix was doing very cursory theatrical runs, where they were like literally like Ted Sarandos was holding his nose. actively as he was putting these movies. I mean, yes and no, because this is the year of Roma. We're going to get into it. Well, you know. And that's part of the Oscar strategy, too. But yes, yes, yes, yes.

Because even like Beasts of No Nation, that was a partnership between Netflix and Bleaker Street, and Bleaker Street put it in like five theaters. Right. But yeah. Yeah. Private life.

Private life. We're going to talk about. But first, we have to get to the 60-second plot description that Joseph Reed. is going to give us. Are you ready? Yes. Yes. All right. Then your 60-second plot description of private life starts now.

All right. Richard and Rachel are married couple. She's around 41-ish. He's a little bit old than that. They both are sort of New York professionals. He's a theater director. She's an author. They want to have a baby, and they've been trying fertility stuff, and nothing seems to be working. They've had failed experiences with adoption. IVF has worked. So the next idea is to get a donor egg, and Rachel is really not into that idea, but she sort of warms up to it eventually, especially when they settle on their niece with an asterisk. We'll get into it. Who is Sadie, and Sadie's 25, and she's sort of aimless, and she wants to donate her egg. And so her parents are not very into it, especially her mother,

but they go ahead with it anyway. And Sadie is excited about doing this, and she's a little bit overzealous and then she gets bad news about some sort of she's not as eggy as she could be and so she takes more of the one hormone and it ends up making her sick and she sort of moves away and then the the egg implantation doesn't go well with Richard and Rachel which is very sad but also Richard admits he's kind of relieved by it which is a tense situation and then nine months later, we see that they get a call from a potential birth mother who may be giving her child up for adoption. And so the last scene we see is they're in an Applebee's and they haven't even ordered the appetizer sampler, which they really should because they have good appetizer

samplers at Applebee's. And they're waiting expectantly and they're sitting on the same side of the booth because they are together in this. And we don't know if this woman's ever going to show up to talk to them about them adopting her baby, but we hope so. 35 seconds over time. But yeah, I figured. Beautifully described. The cut to credits, and it's not even a cut. Final shot of this movie, perfect ending to a movie. Period. It's one of those things where they don't even play any music, so you're not really prepared for the directed by Tamara Jenkins' credit to start crawling up the screen.

And they're just waiting, and we're waiting with them, and we really, really want this for them. Although it's interesting. I don't know about you. Me watching this movie, I am very much I want the best for these characters. I want the best for their marriage. I want them to sort of be there for each other.

I often in this movie are like, maybe just don't, maybe be okay with not having a kid. I understand that like that's a... We're people who don't want to have children, yeah. Right, right. That's my very specific perspective coming into this. And, you know, if that is what you want, then that is what you want out of life. But part of me is just sort of like you have such interesting careers and you have an interesting life

and you seem to really love each other, even though this particular process is putting such a strain on your marriage. But wouldn't it be fine if you just didn't have a kid? You know what I mean? And just like, and were a presence in your niece's life and were a presence in your friend's lives. And I don't know. You know what I mean? And ultimately, you know, that's their lives and not my life. And that goes for everybody out there.

I know who wants to have kids. But me, I look at this and I'm like, you know, there are other ways to be happy. I don't know. I don't know. I mean, I think one of the genius things about the movie is it very much feels like the movie understands that some of us and the audience are going to be thinking that. But the movie never imposes that on them. The movie also allows them to just want what they want, be going on this journey, while also, you know, making space for maybe the audience is going to feel differently.

Well, especially, in terms of making space, I agree with that, because, like, there are moments where you're like, especially with, like, I think Paul Giamatti's character is a little bit more demonstrably ambivalent at times, but sometimes you even look at Catherine Hahn's character, and you're like, why do you want this? and not, you know what I mean? Just like, I'm not, I don't always see why she wants it. And I think that's intentional on Jenkins's part,

is to give the audience a little bit of room to ask that question. And she does end up having such a, you know, nice relationship with Sadie, with the Sadie character, who is, you know, not a baby. She's in her mid-20s by this point. But there is a mentorship that I think happens between Richard and Sadie, too, but like Rachel and Sadie especially, and some of my favorite scenes in this are watching Richard and Rachel sort of react to Sadie. Sadie is this sort of very like knows everything college millennial, like nightmare millennial, right, who like read a thing

about how, oh wait, I wrote down the quote because it's my favorite quote of this entire I mean, is she, is she like elder Gen Z though? In 2018, if she's 25, If she's 25 years old in 2018, I think she's still millennial. She's probably young millennial, but she's probably millennial at that point. Certainly, I think the writing of this character is Tamara Jenkins, sort of like, this is my experience of people of this age, whether it's, you know, the word millennial is never mentioned. I do think it's also a smarter and better movie that it doesn't feel like, you know, it's necessarily judging younger millennials for Gen C. like it's not a movie about old people thinking young people are awful or selfish or anything but also allows Sadie to sometimes be awful and selfish because she is 25 years old

like it is and lets you see Richard and Rachel react to her in a way where you're like I get it y'all like I well yeah because sometimes they are you cut away to them and they're absolutely mortified or sometimes you know something like sting a little bit or something right you know, the scene at the breakfast, yeah, the scene at the breakfast nook where where Sadie says, we look like an advertisement for assholes. And Rachel's like, are we the assholes or are we appealing to assholes? And she's so, Sadie's talking about like, oh, it's just, you know, we're having our coffee and we're having our whatever. And she says, I took a media and consumer society course. It was pretty life altering, which, like, I fell out. Like, what a great

fucking mine. This, like, college dropout who, like, can't finish class in person at Bard. By the way, this was Netflix's a Bard era. She gets to finish her degree in absentia. Yeah. Why couldn't I be allowed to do that at State School? That's all I wanted

in the world. Meyer with Stories in 2017 also had a young character who went to Bard. So, like, clearly this was something in the algorithm, maybe, that was saying that Bard students were something that needed to exist in these movies. But I love that dynamic between them because she does seem like annoying but good-hearted,

right? Where like, and somebody who, and like, they're like, again, they're, they work in theater and literature and like they know people like this. Like, they're not totally outside of this. They also, you know, they know from annoying. They can also see a younger version of themselves as well. Exactly. Exactly. And sometimes Rachel feels a little bit implicitly judged by just Sadie's existence. You know what I mean? Which I can see. You know what I mean? Like, that makes a lot of sense. As somebody who is pretty much exactly the same age as Rachel in this movie. Like, I get it.

Catherine Hahn's tremendous in this movie. Let's start with that. Beyond. And didn't, I mean, this is a really, really tough best actress year. Oh, unbelievable. In terms of just cracking the race, period. Do you have your little chart? I would pull it up.

reference to your chart. But, I mean, the sad thing is Catherine Hahn didn't really get much headway beyond the Gotham's for this movie. She didn't even get the independent spirit nomination, which I think is so interesting because Tamara Jenkins gets the best director nomination for private life, and yet female lead nominees at the Independent Spirit Awards that year, which other than the one at the top, which is Glenn Close wins for the wife.

Glenn Close wins for the wife, which like makes... I was on the wrong thing. page. Yeah. You know, again, technically, yes, the wife is an independent movie, but, like, the spirit, this is the one where, like, the indie is correct, but the spirit is wrong. Like, Glenn Close winning for the wife is against the spirit of the Indianman Spirit Awards. But the other nominees were Tony Collette for Hereditary, which I had, you know, screamed myself hoarse that whole season talking about how great she wasn't that movie. Elsie Fisher for eighth grade. Regina Hall for Support the Girls, who was the New York film critics winner, Helena Howard for Madeline's Madeline and Carrie Mulligan for Wildlife, who I also fucking loved. It's a really strong best actress lineup. We all know how I feel about the motion picture of the wife and all of the performances in it. But like, that's a really great lineup. That's a, and you know, feel how you want to feel about a teen performance like Elsie Fisher's, but I think Elsie Fisher is tremendous in that movie in eighth grade. And I still would have wanted

to see Catherine Hahn crack this lineup because, um... it's, God, there's so many things about this performance that I find impressive or heartbreaking or just the way, the choices she makes in this, I don't know. I think she's maybe her best. Is this her best performance that she's ever given? She's given a lot of really good ones. She's given a lot of really good ones and she's given a lot. The thing about this performance is and why it's, I think, a bummer that it didn't get more attention. And, And like, we say that now, being on the other side of the pandemic, when Wanda Vision is the thing that makes everybody be like all caps, neon flashing lights, Catherine Hahn. And, you know, everybody got a little annoying about Catherine Hahn at that time. So it's like, we're talking about how she didn't get served by this thing. But if you just wait a few years, she becomes everyone's favorite. My favorite thing about that is while the rest of us were, like, flipping out about Wanda Vision and Catherine Hahn and Wanda Vision is you were the one in your little corner being like, I know this much is true. It's so good. Like, she's so good, and I know this much is true.

Like, nobody's watching this show, but I'm watching this show, and I think it's great. Because those two came around at the same time, right? Wait, which show? I know this much is true. Your little... Oh, yeah. Yeah. She's incredible in that.

That was also, I think, early pandemic show, and of course, no one wants to watch that shit at the beginning of the pandemic. No one ever wanted... with my little misery popcorn. That's what I mean. That's what I mean. That's what I love so much about that. And especially the performances are tremendous. Yeah, she's amazing in that show.

She's amazing in everything. And I think, you know, and this isn't to diss Wanda Vision. Everybody can go and enjoy Wanda Vision, whatever. It's a bummer to me that that was treated like the culmination of her career. And this feels so much more. appropriate for that and that's a bummer why it didn't get more attention for this performance because, you know, she's usually a supporting player or doing these bit things or if she does get a big showcase, it's like bad moms, you know, and this is a performance I think that, you know, pulls bits and pieces from all of the time she's been great before when she might be in a nothing small role like revolutionary road where she is getting. giving 10 times more than the role deserves. And now she gets a real showcase in this movie to do literally all of the things that she has done before brilliantly.

So sort of immediately before Private Life, she had been on Transparent. She got the Emmy nomination for Transparent, even though she was mostly a guest star on that show. She wasn't really like a main character on that show. Yeah, I think she barely made the cutoff to be considered a supporting player. Because, well, she was a guest player in, I think she was nominated for the second season. Yes, I think so. But the season she gets nominated for, she's fucking incredible. She's fantastic.

She's never not good on that show. Again, recurring themes for recent episodes of this, us talking about transparent. Yeah. And then she was on that show. Several. Yes. She was also on that show. I love Dick, which was also an Amazon show around that time.

No one watched it. No, but the, the, the, the, critics who did really were impressed by her and really thought she was very good on it. And then film-wise, I mean, she's made a ton of film, so, like, not to get, but, like, she's in Captain Fantastic, although I can't remember the nature of her role in that movie. She's the female lead who is not a child. Gotcha. His wife? I don't remember the plot of that movie as well as I should remember the plot of that movie.

She's the female lead, but, like, that's a supporting player, basically. 2016, as you mentioned, is bad moms, where she's the wild one of, you know, it's very Goldilocks and the Three Bears, right? Where, like, Kristen Bell is the uptight one, and Catherine Hahn is the crazy one, and Milakunis is, you know, just right in the middle. And she's sort of the sardonic, you know, whatever. That movie was a success, as far as I remember, so much that they got the sequel the next year, a bad mom's Christmas. and then the same year as Private Life comes out, she's a voice in Spider-Man Into the Spider-Verse. She is Olivia Octavius.

She's really fun. Yeah, she's like one of the best voice performances in a movie with like a lot of really good voice performances. And it's an interesting, like Private Life by far gives her the best showcase, I think, for her talents. And then right after this in 2019, she's on an HBO show called Mrs. Fletcher that, like, talk about a show that nobody watched, but, like, I watched it. I reviewed it for a primetimeer, and I really liked it. She's really, really wonderful in it.

That's a Tom Perada series. It only lasted the one season. It was a short season at that. It was like seven episodes. She's an empty nest, divorced mother who has to sort of figure out, has to figure out what to do with her life. now that her son is off in college, and she, you know, starts having a fair with a younger sort of classmate of her sons, actually. And, but also, like, you know, finding herself in these, you know, group.

I can't remember whether it's a writer's group that she's in. I think it's a writer's group that she joined something like that. But it's a really good show, and it's, again, like a really good showcase for her. I want to say Nicole Hollifson are directed a couple of the episodes or maybe just the pilot, but worth checking out. It's only seven episodes, so if people want to check that out. So it's a fertile sort of, no pun intended era for Catherine Hahn in terms of performances, but I think private life still stands kind of head and shoulders above. She never stopped fucking working, basically. Exactly, exactly.

And then post Wanda Vision, you have her in Glass Onion, and I think everybody's immediate response was Catherine Hahn is wasted in this movie. And watching, I felt that to a minor degree when I first saw it, but when I watched it again, I'm not so sure I agree. She just doesn't get to be either the hero, which is Janelle Monet, or the wacky one, which is Kate Hudson. But I do think that, like, she serves a purpose in that movie and is good at it. I think my feeling about that is I don't necessarily think she's wasted either. I think there's no sin in being the, like, fourth or fifth best cast member in a movie like that where, like, the cast is firing on all cylinders, where, like, Janelle Monet is so good, Kate Hudson's so good, Daniel Craig is so good, you know what I mean? Like, it's, to me... I mean, I maybe broadly wanted more.

characterization from all of the characters rather than like what they're supposed to represent in the culture but it's still ultimately a pretty plotty movie but um yeah uh no i think she's good in that movie and and she's lately um she's in this new show called tiny beautiful things that i haven't gotten a chance to watch yet but i've heard that she's tremendously good in it which is not a surprise that is a show based on a Cheryl Strayed book, which, Cheryl Strait, of course, from the movie Wild. It's produced by... Also invented the word and.

Right. The show is produced by Wilde stars Reese Witherspoon and Laura Dern, among other people. And it's about a woman who becomes an advice columnist, I am pretty sure, is the log line for that one. But I definitely want to check that one out. That one released in its entirety on April 7th. So it's a full eight-episode season that dropped on Hulu. And yeah, you're going to check that out because Catherine Hahn rules. So, yeah, she's really tremendous in this movie.

I also really like Paul Giamatti. I think Paul Giamatti is a good counterpart to her in this movie. I agree. And not afraid to make... Unsurprising that much like the Savage. Well, not truly. like the savages because Laura Linney gets the Oscar nomination and

Philip Seymour Hoffman doesn't. But Philip Seymour Hoffman got arguably more precursor attention than she did. He had the other movie. Right. He had the other movie in contention where he had the supporting thing for Charlie Wilson's War, which was a more bombastic performance. So

it's not a super huge surprise that that's the one he gets nominated for. That's also the same year as before the devil thinks you're dead, I believe. Before the devil knows you're dead. You're being a little bit too indecisive about the devil. The devil doesn't just think you're dead. The devil knows it. Listen, when the devil is involved, you don't have to be dead.

Devil just has to think you're dead and you are. But yes, Paul Giamani doesn't really get much attention and probably because it's Paul Giamatti, I would argue, doing what Paul Giamatti does best, what we know Paul Giamatti to do best, but he hadn't, he's done things like play Santa Claus, and he hasn't really gotten to give a Paul Giamatti performance that much.

He had been coming off of his era. Maybe a little for granted when this came along. He had been coming off of his era where he played like multiple shady music producer types. Right? We're like, wasn't that his role in Straight Out of Compton and Love and Mercy?

I'm pretty sure. Or am I... I forget that. It definitely was his role in Straight Out of Compton. He is, but wasn't that also... Maybe I'm wrong. But he's definitely in Love and Mercy. Um, but yeah, it had been, honestly, since win-win in 2011, where he had had a really sort of like juicy role to like, to bite into. He's so good. A role that had that Giamati juice. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Uh, that's a movie we should do at some point. That's a good Tom McCarthy movie. I'd forgotten. What were we talking about where we got into the screenplay? Oh, when we were talking about young adult. Uh, that win-win showed up in a bunch of those precursors for screenplay.

And, but, like, Paul Giamatti, like Catherine Hahn, stays working. So, like, in the years between Win-Win and Private Life, which is only seven years, he's in the Ides of March and Rock of Ages and Cosmopolis and the Congress. Remember the Congress that Votoscope animated movie with Robin Wright and 12 years a slave and saving Mr. Banks? And, of course, the amazing Spider-Man, too. we all remember his performance as Rhino in The Amazing Spider-Man, too. And he was always on that list of, like, when they were going to make that Sinister Six movie from that particular superhero universe that was on the burner for a while.

Poor Dane Dahan, indeed. He was in the Madame Bovary movie that I definitely watched at Tiff, my first year at Tiff, that nobody ever saw. Who was Madame Bovary in that? Is that the Miavaskovska? It is, Miavasekowska. Mia Vasakowska, Reese Ifon's, Ezra Miller, Logan Marshall Green. A very well-cast movie, that's probably why I saw it, but, like, no one ever talked about it. He's in San Andreas, a movie I absolutely saw, straight out of Compton, Morgan, which we talked about in the IMDB game last week.

And then, yeah, private life in 2018. And had he even done, like, a bunch of television? I think he was mostly like a guest star. on TV stuff. He did John Adams, but that was before even win-win. Exactly. That was 0-8. Listen, the Tom Hooper Stan is not logging on. Do not confuse me. But the John Adams miniseries is really good. That's really good. Laura Linney, another one of her many ex-ins.

Whoa, that is a statement. Between John and Abigail Adams. John, like, it really humanizes these people in a way. that they do it it's so it's maybe the best piece of directing that Tom Hooper will ever do at this point the Adamses

haven't seen each other for fucking years they're on the other side of the world and these are two people who like capital L love each other while going through you know revolutions and shit and like you also think you know when you were sailing across the Atlantic

you could just die the ship could just go down you could just contract like a mold disease on a boat and never see this loved one again. And they could be dead for months before you even know. So she comes to meet him in Paris. He's trying to get France to, you know, fight Britain along with America, whatever, blah, blah, blah. That shit is boring. But they, he is staying in this, like, mansion.

And then she is coming to greet him in the mansion. And they're in some giant, massive private room that has, like, a sofa. in it, and they haven't seen each other in years. Keep in mind they capital L love each other. They are alone in this room, like the little servant people close the door and such, and they start like fucking on this shes, and not just like fucking, but like, I love you so much and I haven't seen you in years. Please let's fuck right now. And it's really emotional and great. I did a little bit of digging. Paul Giamatti in Love and Mercy plays Brian Wilson's therapist who becomes his legal guardian and is sort of a shady influence over his life. He's in the QSack half of Love and Mercy.

He's in the QSack half of it. So it's sort of, he's not a shady record producer, but he's a shady influence. And the reason why I thought- The Big Elizabeth Bank's showdown scene is with him. Yes. And the reason why I remember that, though, is that was the year that Andy Sandberg and Sandra O hosted the Golden Globes. And I remember. I remember I remember really liking the both of them. I thought they both actually did a really good job, particularly Sandberg, who I was a little bit wary of. And I remember Andy Sandberg makes a joke about that, about like, this is the year that Paul Giamatti kept playing, like, shady music producer types. Once again, we had many film actors nominated for TV roles, such as Paul Giamatti for his incredible work on Inside Amy Schumer. Yeah. It's nice that he was able to find the time away from his other job of playing every music. manager in every movie ever. The contracts are coming, Cube.

I just got to talk to Stacey Jacks about Brian Wilson. I'm glad I figured that out. I'm glad I earned that out. We'll save it for the Love and Mercy episode, but the Elizabeth Banks, Stan, is also not logging on. Don't confuse me. I know that she's annoying. She's really great in that movie. Yeah, listen, I have appreciation for many things that Elizabeth Banks is done. Sure. Sure. Magic MacTuble XL, excellent. Perfectly cast. Exactly. Exactly. Giamatti, though. Yeah. I feel like we're, we have a year ahead of really talking about the sideways snub because he is reuniting with Alexander Payne this year. We'll see how this

goes. I'm excited for that movie. I have heard good things about it. I've heard good things about divine joy Randolph in that movie. It's a good, it's a re-teaming that I'm, you know, I'm into. And I think Paul Giamati is a very good actor who, because of the types of roles he often takes, doesn't always get his due. He takes a lot of small roles. You know what I mean? He is not, he just wants to work. And even if he's not going to get a lead, which is why it's a good, it's good to see him in a movie like Private Life, where he does get to be the lead and which this is a movie that writes a really interesting character for him, where he is

often tasked as being the heavy in an interaction between the two of them, where he's the one who pushes for the egg implantation, and she really, really has huge misgivings about it, and she doesn't want, she ultimately leads up to this great line

of hers where she's like, I don't want to be left out. And he also has the scene where he where she starts blaming the you know the feminists of her era for telling her that she could have it all

that she could have a career and then have a kid and he's like I don't think it's second wave feminism's fault that we waited until we were 40 or whatever to start wanting to have kids and she takes that as an attack against her and he holds his ground in those arguments

which I think is really interesting and feels very real right where he's like you know I'm not going to it would be a lot easier for all of us if I was just like, no, you're right, of course. But, like, he holds his ground to that. And he's just like, listen, all I'm saying is, we made choices and we have to own those choices. And he says it later when he's there talking about, he's talking about how he's secretly relieved that the implantation didn't go because now he knows that at least it's over.

And this is also a scene that really indicates to you that this is like, because they both get to have these thorny dynamics and, the scene that feel way more like real people, but are also still very entertaining, indicates to you that this is a better version of even this type of movie, because I think in a lesser movie, both of those, both of their perspectives would be like the edges sanded off of that, or it would become this overly sentimental thing, or, you know, he would be either more of an asshole or more of, you know, the, what? like the one who says something very like insensitive or yeah yeah yeah yeah i think it also enforces the bond between these two characters that they can be that level of honest with each other

and still i know other characters talk about how like it's really taking a toll on their marriage and you can see that as a viewer but i also don't ever feel like they're on the verge of breaking up at any point like their their marriage is strong the relationship is strong they love each other they are bonded to each other, they're committed to this life of theirs, but they can also be very bracingly honest with each other about this kind of thing, which I imagine the stress and the wear and tear of doing this for so many years, trying to, going through these procedures for so many years, would wear down any kind of tact or, you know, not necessarily tact, but like any kind of tiptoeing around these feelings, that at some point you're just like,

God, I'm too tired to even, like, you know, say this the least blunt way possible, so I'm just going to say it. Which I really like. I think they're a really good couple. And then into this couple comes this Kaylee Carter character, who was a great agent of chaos without being like an asshole about it, which I also love. Without also being chaotic necessarily, she's just 25. Right. I think in terms of, I mean more of in like a story perspective. like she's an agent of chaos in this like she's a destabilizing

for everyone involved including the supporting character her parents played by Molly Shannon and John Carroll Lynch who are even they have a marital bond that it's like they're together they can you know not push each other's buttons but they could be diametrically opposed to certain things but you can feel like they are still a very loving healthy bond unit, whatever. So the dynamic there is that like Molly Shannon has Sadie from either a first

marriage or a first relationship. And then John Carroll Lynch is her maybe second husband. He's the stepfather to Sadie. And then John Carol Lynch and Paul Giamatti are brothers, which is why Sadie and Richard are not blood related, which is why it's less creepy than that. and it seems on the surface that, you know, this guy is having his niece be his egg donor, right? It also just creates a more real, like, this is how families are and branch out, you know. While also allowing Richard and Rachel to have this very, like, close familial bond to Sadie in this way. But I also think the dynamic between Molly Shannon and Sadie, which we only really get, like, two or three scenes to explore, is really interesting, right?

We're like, there's part of Molly Shannon's character that is embittered or or regretful about choices that she's made or whatever, and so she's being very judgmental and controlling over the way Sadie is living her life. And you can tell she's not happy that Sadie is 25 and still hasn't completed college yet, and you can tell that she doesn't approve of her life choices,

and then, so when the news comes out that she's donating her, egg, she just flips out. And she's really tremendous in this movie, too, actually. Was this our first Molly Shannon performance? It might be. To talk about? I think it is, yes. Molly Shannon is so great.

Yeah, she's tremendous. She had won the Independent Spirit Award the year before for other people, I believe. Which she's great in. So great, yeah. Even with my minor hang-ups with that movie, I think that's a good movie with a... I really Tremendous Jesse Plymonds performance.

You and your beloved, Jesse Plymouth. He's very good in that movie. But he's great in the movie. Who's the guy who he hooks up with the Zagg? Speaking of great sex scenes. Other people has a great sex scene. Is it him and Zach Woods? Yes.

Oh, Zach Woods is so cute. I love him. Yeah. But anyway, yeah, I think Molly Shannon in just a couple scenes is actually really tremendous in this movie. Yeah. And then John Carroll Lynch playing, he has certain modes. he's sort of drift into sometimes he's creepy threatening presence in a scene in like

The Invitation or Zodiac or what are other like good creepy John Carroll Lynch performances and then sometimes he's just like befuddled decency which is private life or Fargo or what you know what I mean like he he he sort of goes between it's not just those two kinds of roles, but I feel like those are his two, you know, kind of dominant modes a little bit. He's, we talked about him, well, we should probably get into the sixth timer of it all right now. This is our sixth. Absolutely. Our sixth John Carroll Lynch movie, we have most recently talked about him when we did our episode on

private life, or this is private life. Very recently. Very recently, we talked about his performance in private life. On Shutter Island is what I meant to say. He was a, he's the warden, right? on Shutter Island. He plays a lot of wardens, too. That's the other thing.

Yeah, he plays a good sort of authority figure in that way. We talked about him in Anywhere But Here, and Crazy Stupid Love. Zodiac, as I mentioned, where he plays the not officially caught, but like, we all can surmise that that's the guy who we come out of Zodiac thinking, like, it's the fucking Zodiac. He's so terrifying. He's in a thousand acres. he's what the friend of the family who's really judgmental towards the sisters right he's really mean to them and yeah shutter island and now private life so that is six when we have an actor actress who we cover in six movies on this podcast i make a little quiz and i ask chris some

questions where the answers are one or more of these movies chris have you jotted down those six titles so you know uh anywhere over here crazy stupid love zodiac a thousand acres Shutter Island Private Life That is like the full spectrum of this had Oscar Buzz experience Kind of is, yeah, yeah, yeah, right?

There's big movies, there's small movies, there's good movies, there's bad movies, there's movies that other people love more than we do, there's movies that we love more than other people do. There's movies that nobody loves. Right, exactly. Yes. All right.

So, like I said, the answers to these questions will be one or more of those six movies. Are you ready to go? I am. All right. Our first is our boilerplate questions, which is the longest? Zodiac. It's Zodiac. Although, for the first time in a while, since we've had Zodiac on one of these quizzes,

we have another movie that's giving it a little bit of a run for its money. Shutter Island is, I want to say, 139 minutes? It's pretty long. It's longer than it needs to be. Zodiac. is 157. Zodiac's a beast, and every minute perfectly utilized by David Fincher in that one. Which one is the shortest? A thousand acres. A thousand acres at 105 minutes.

Which one made the most money at the domestic box office? Shutter Island. Shutter Island, by I think a pretty good margin, $128 million. Shutter Island was a big hit. Lowest domestic box office total. Technically speaking, private life? Well, yeah, with the exception of private life, because private life has the Netflix asterisk to it. Anywhere? No, Zodiac. Nope.

Okay. There's a lower than Zodiac. Zodiac made like 40, I think. Anywhere but here? Nope. Anywhere but here made 18.6. Wow. A thousand acres.

A thousand acres made $7.9 million. Wow. I didn't remember it was that low. Yes, it was. Highest Rotten Tomato score. Okay. Zodiac. Nope.

Ooh. Is it private life? Private life. 93% on Rotten Tomatoes. Very, very good. Zodiac was up there, but not as up there. Yeah, its original reception was cooler. Zodiac was a 90.

Lowest Rotten Tomato score. 1,000 acres. 1,000 acres. 24. So if you're keeping track, 1,000 acres is the shortest, poorest, and worst reviewed of all six of these movies. So quite the trifecta there for 1,000 acres. Which two of these movies were Paramount movies? Zodiac and Shutter Island.

Yes, exactly. Which movie had cinematography by Roger Deacons? Anywhere but here? Yes, anywhere but here. Very good. Which movie was released during Pisces season? Zodiac. No, not Zodiac.

Oh, really? I think Zodiac was right is the next It was Aquarius season Hold on The answer is Shutter Island The answer is Shutter Island Let's see

The Zodiac was released Oh no you're right Zodiac is also Pisces Because it's early early March Yes Sorry I made that more complicated Than it should have been

Well No I think that's still Pisci season I was like That might be Aquarius season I don't know, whatever. No, well, listen, I let Google be my guide with that because, you know, I have a, uh, uh, none of my business relationship with astrology. Which of these movies was nominated for the MTV Movie Award for Best Kiss? Uh, Crazy Stupid Love.

Crazy Stupid Love, yes. Which two movies feature multiple best actress winners? Anywhere but here. And a thousand acres. No. No. Anywhere but here is right. It was Susan Sarandon and Natalie Portman.

Yes. Crazy Stupid Love. Yes, Julianne Moore and Emma Stone. Which movie features multiple best actor winners? Shutter Island. Yes, who? Ben Kingsley, Leonardo DiCaprio. Yes, correct.

Anyone else? I think it's just the two of them. Feasible to have more. Sure, but yes, it's just the two of them. Which three of these movies were Teen Choice Award nominees? Anywhere but here. Nope. Okay.

Crazy Stupid Love. Crazy Stupid Love, correct. Shutter Island. Shutter Island, yes. I think Crazy Stupid Love had something like six nominations at the Teen Choice of Boys. Sure. And Zodiac? Zodiac.

Jake Jillen Hall got a nomination for Zodiac. Sometimes you have to just look at the actors. And the teens will go just for an actor. in these awards. Which three of these movies were Golden Globe nominees? Anywhere but here. Yep, Natalie Portman. Crazy Stupid Love.

Yep, Ryan Gosling. It's not private life, so it's Zodiac, A Thousand Acres or Shutter Island. I think it was a thousand acres. Thousand Acres, Jessica Lang got a nomination for a thousand acres. That's right. All right, which two of these movies feature stars of the Ides of March? Crazy Stupid Love and Private Life. Yes, Crazy Stupid Love has actually two stars of The Eyes of March, Ryan Gosling, and Mercer Tomey.

Private Life is Paul Giamatti. Which two movies feature stars of Annihilation? Anywhere But Here, and Oscar Isaac, Tessa Thompson, Gina Rodriguez, Jennifer Jason Lee, is in 1,000 Acres. Yes, Natalie Portman and Jennifer. for Jason Lee. Yes. Which two movies feature stars of Lars and the Real Girl? Crazy Stupid Love and Lars and the Real Girl also has Emily Mortimer who is in Shutter Island.

Yes. Also, Patricia Clarkson is in Shutter Island. That's right. She's in Lars and the Real Girl. Yes, she's the doctor, I believe, in Lars and the Real Girl. Yes. All right. Which movie opened the same weekend as Dogma?

Dogma? Anywhere but here. Yes, correct. Which movie opened the same weekend as The Myth of Fingerprints? A Thousand Acres. A thousand acres. And finally, which movie opened the same weekend as Venom? Private Life. Private Life. Yes. Famously, infamously so, yes, private life. That is a John Carroll Lynch six-timer quiz. We honor you our creepy, scary. Zodiac. Cudley King. Yeah, he's not in this movie much, but he does his...

What's Marge Gunderson's husband's name? Han. She keeps calling him Han. That's all I can think of. Whatever. Han Gunderson. He's so good in that movie. Maybe he's Hungerson. Maybe. What else do we want to talk about with this? We haven't talked enough about Tamara Jenkins, I don't think. I love a director who doesn't have a ton of project.

You know what I mean? She's very like she's Todd Field-esque in that way, right? And I think when Todd Field came back with Tar, there was a lot of Ballyhoo, right? There was a lot of like a Tar, you know, he's only ever made bangers, right? He's only ever made in the bedroom and little children. And now he's back for the first time and forever. And he's got Cape Blanchet. And I want that reception for when Tamara Jenkins finally.

comes back with her next movie that she's only ever made great movies and she should also spend her entire award season wearing a bunch of different hats just to really go for the full Todd Field effect yeah I appreciate that her only

Oscar nomination is for the screenplay for the savages I think you can make an argument that she should have three screenplay nominees by now I would agree I think that's what was the 2018 original screenplay Oscar

was not great because Green Book won Super not great actually Green Book won and also Vice was nominated the other three nominees This is not a good Oscar year I know

No it actually is a pretty great Oscar year There is just multiple pieces of shit There's highs and lows That's the thing Is that Oscar year That best picture Well just I'll read through

before we get off of the screenplay. Green Book does win for Nick Valalanga and Peter Fairley. Vice is nominated. Roma is nominated for Alfonso Quaron. But then you get, and I like the Roma screenplay. I know Roma is, you know, high and low. We should talk about the Roma of it. Well, I want to talk about the Netflix at all so we can culminate that in the Roma thing, because that's a big part of it. The favorite was nominated for screenplay and first reformed was nominated for Paul Schrader. So that's like, again, 2018, I think you're exactly right, where you get the lows of Green Book and Bohemian Rhapsody and vice.

But then it's like, Black Panther is a nominee and the favorite and Roma and a star is born. Can you ever forgive me? Can you ever forgive me as a two-time acting nominee? And if Beale Street could talk. Not a Best Picture nominee. Like it should have been. Both of those two movies should have been Best Picture nominees and they weren't. And that's, that is a shame.

But so, right, I want to talk about the Netflix of it all because, 2015 Beasts of No Nation doesn't really do it. And then 2016, 2017, they're kind of treading water, right? They're getting documentary nominations and they're getting short film nominations and they're, you know, allowing, not allowing, but like that's when like Amazon sort of lapsed them with Manchester by the sea getting major awards in 2016. And then at the middle of 2018, they hire award strategist named Lisa Tabak who had worked with a bunch of other studios but most significantly she had worked with Miramax

and she's a big name in Oscar campaigning. And she, I remember when that news happened I remember thinking this is a big deal. I think this is, this was Netflix really planning their flag and saying we are going to make it a priority, make

the Oscars a priority. And you could tell right away they had also, by this point, ramped up their, the kinds of films and filmmakers that they were going to be working with, 2018, just from the outset, where they had the Alfonso Quaron movie in Roma. They had the new Cohen Brothers movie with the Ballad of Buster Scruggs. And they had, sorry, I'm going through this sort of, they had the new Paul Greengrass movie. I know nobody really likes 22 July Nobody gave a shit about that movie and it's not that great But it's the new Paul Greengrass movie You know what I mean? It's like at the outset

They have Outlaw King which got a big Perch at Tiff That's another movie that I like that a lot of people don't really care for So they have a bunch of things And then they also As I mentioned before They're in this kind of era of Beloved indie filmmakers

Where they have the new Hall of Center movie They have The Land of Steady Habits, which is her least successful movie, but Netflix has it. They have the new Tamara Jenkins movie in private life. They had Noah Baumbach's Myrawith's stories in 2017. And so they have this arsenal, you know what I mean, of stuff to work with, and they have multiple contenders. But I think with the Lisa Tebek of it all, you could tell that, like, part of the game here is, triangulation of strategy, and I think from a very early moment in that year, you could tell that, like, Roma is going to be the Netflix priority, and they are going to...

They didn't produce it. They picked it up. Right. But Roma, like, if you were paying attention to the whispers, like, Roma was a story well before the fall festivals. Like, there were rumors about it, possibly being at Cannes, if, depending on... on what the timing was, because I'm pretty sure they bought it before it was announced that Netflix would be releasing that movie. That's probably why it wasn't it can. Right. Right.

And I think one of the things, one of the aspects of this Netflix award strategy was getting the word out about these movies, if not necessarily in the public, then like through the sort of whisper network of people who talked about the Oscars and people who were insiders in Hollywood, but I absolutely remember hearing, and I am not a person who has back channel connections, but I remember hearing that marriage story was going to be a big thing early in 2018. And again, I don't normally hear those things.

So if I was hearing about it, a lot of people were hearing about it. And I think that's part of, that's one of those aspects of the game there where so much of Oscar strategy is perception. So much of Oscar strategy is just telling people to perceive a movie as an awards contender. I think that was one of the things that A-24 did so smartly

with everything everywhere all at once. It's from a very early stage. They had made it pretty clear that we are going to support this movie as an awards contender. And I think as the year went on, people viewed that movie increasingly through that lens. I think that's what Universal did with Get Out very smartly in 2017.

That was a February release. And from February, were holding events and they were having things where they were inviting academy members to see that movie. And I think it alerted people to the fact that this is not just a crowd pleaser. This is not just a box office movie. This is a movie that we are going to have people appreciate through the lens of best of the year. And I think that Netflix started to do that then with Roma in particular in 2018, and that movie by the fall festivals was seen as the frontrunner, which, you know, with all the complications that that entails.

And I think that's been the next Netflix hurdle that they still haven't gotten over. They still have never won Best Picture. And I think there's, I mean, that's the game, right? That's how you figure out winning Best Picture is so difficult. Because all it is, it's capturing the lightning in the bottle of the zeitgeist. And you just don't know. There's no predicting. And not losing hold of the reins, because that's what I would argue happened with Power of the Dog.

And I think at a certain point, it's not just a backlash to streaming. It's also a backlash to the amount of money that they spend. They spent an insane amount of money on Roma and Power of the Dog. And it's like, at a certain point, if you're the frontrunner, I don't know, it becomes cloying. There's an easy resentment towards Netflix for a lot of obvious reasons. I think the industry tends to resent how much Ted Sarandos is very overtly looking to disrupt and subvert the traditional theatrical model of distribution. So there is resistance to them as an entity.

I think one of the successes of Netflix is that they have been able to put the focus on the films that they want to put the focus on and so it's tough to be resentful of Netflix when you love Martin Scorsese so much and so the Irishman gets a ton of nominations. It's tough to be resentful about Netflix when you've got a Jane Campion movie that is so, you know, self-evidently good.

But then they enter into these seasons Rome is a front-runner. The Irishman's a front-runner. Mank is seen as a front-runner, even though I think Mank's status as a front-runner felt almost more effective for other studios to sort of have a rallying point against because I think Mank was probably never going to win Best Picture. But I think other places could be like, Netflix thinks they can just waltz in here

with a black and white movie about Hollywood history and, you know, yada, yada. Mank rules. I love Mank. Incredible ciphered performance. But also, like, their spending is insane. Oh, yeah. Their spending is insane. Or whatever they decide their pony.

is, which, like, the number tossed around for what they spent on just the awards campaign for All Quiet on the Western Front that has gone around is $100 million. And that movie was not their top pony until very late. But that feels like a lesson learned from Miramax, too, right? Where it's just, like, be shameless. Be, like, you know, ultimately this kind of stuff pays off. And it will. Eventually Netflix is going to win Best Picture.

Like, it's not, like, I don't think this is going to continue on forever. It's just a matter of finding the right movie. But it is interesting that you have these, who could have really predict? I know there were people who predicted that Green Book was going to have a lot of success, but, like, you can never tell from year to year, what's going to be a Green Book year, what's going to be a Parasite year, what's going to be a CODA year, what's going to be in everything everywhere all at once a year. And there's no, for as much as Netflix, I think, has made.

mastered the fundamentals of the attention economy, the economy economy, and the filmmaker, the talent economy, all that stuff, they've gotten everything. They've aced the test, right? They are an A student. And what they haven't quite figured out, which is the hardest part, is that zeitgeist of it, right? That finding the timing of it, the passion of it. And Netflix seems to always end up with the dispassionate, impressive movie. I don't always agree with the

consensus on that. I was very passionate for a movie like Roma. I was very passionate for a movie like The Power of the Dog, but not everybody was. And I think those are movies that tend to the Netflix of it all tends to lend itself towards an interpretation of

big soulless spectacle, because that's what Netflix is strategy is as a company. The nature of Netflix is content, right? Like, so much, like, we're recording this the weekend that

Beef is airing, is premiering, and first time I've wanted to watch a Netflix series in a very long time. I will say that, but it's also like by the time this episode airs, people, if history remains true of what

happens to Netflix series, people aren't going to be talking about the show. Well, that, You're right, but that I think is an endemic of all of television. I don't think that is unique to Netflix. That happens with Apple shows and Hulu shows. It doesn't happen to HBO shows. Well, that's HBO superpower. HBO is still able to, you know, but they are maybe the only ones.

But that is also a part and parcel of people's habits, right? People are still in the habit of Sunday nights watching the new HBO show, and they've been able to hold on to that. Thank God, because it's the only thing that still feels like actual real television is, you know, HBO stuff in the way that we talk about that stuff. And, but, yeah, I think Netflix, as much as most of these other streaming platforms, does, does not. There's a certain lack of object permanence with Netflix movies. Yeah, yeah. In the culture.

And so when it comes to a movie like Private Life, a great movie. A great movie, it's not a hospitable home for a movie like this. Well, when you have all of these movies, all of these titles, and I guess, like, studios do have this too, but there's a, there's an avenue when a studio is releasing something into theaters that the possibility exists for a groundswell, right? the possibility exists that something is going to catch on more than you thought it would and be a niche success. And I just think that Netflix doesn't offer that opportunity for its smaller or like mid-level movies because either you're a Roma, you're a Buster Scruggs, which, you know, not everybody's a Cohen's. You know what I mean?

Like the Coens and the Oscars are a special relationship. But like other than those movies in 2018, there was just a lot. lot of movies that fell through the cracks and ultimately just did not get any attention. And Private Life was one of those movies, which is a shame because it was really great. It's a real shame because you can see this movie being somewhere else. You know, you can see why Tamara Jenkins's first two movies were Searchlight movies, and this one is not because of what was going on with Fox at the time. But even with what was going on with Fox at the time,

They got, can you ever forgive me to three Oscar nominations, two of them in acting categories. And the favorite to, what, 10 Oscar nominations? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And that's, but I think specifically of can you ever forgive me because in terms of scale and scope and size, that's comparable to private life. That's what this movie needed was somebody, you know, a studio to, and again, we've talked about best actress was a beast that year. It was really tough. it would have been really tough to get a Catherine Hahn nomination.

But it would not have been tough to have gotten Jenkins another screenplay nomination. Exactly. Exactly. So, yeah, that's the Netflix of it all. I think I find it a very fascinating subject, even though sometimes it's a depressing subject and sometimes it's a, you know, a little infuriating of a subject. But I think that that switch that Netflix made in 2018 to be coming to sort of like they be. became a major Oscar player because they decided to. You know what I mean? Because they hired somebody who they knew would put them into the game. And it happened instantaneously. They've had multiple best picture nominees in three of the last five years, 2018, 19, 20, 21, 22. Yeah, three of the last five years, they've had multiple best picture nominees. I'm going to be very curious to see what type of lesson that they have learned from All Quiet on the Western Front,

because I do think that that pivot was not immediate, but it felt like the first time that they were responding to what people were responding to rather than pushing their chosen major contenders. This is going to be a very interesting year, though. 2022 was seen as a down year for Netflix just in terms of the projects that they had in their arsenal. It was all quite on the Western front, which had to be, sort of gathered from the bin of ignored festival titles because like white noise

didn't really connect and bardo didn't really connect but this year they've got Maestro which is going to be big you know what I mean that's that's almost certainly that's the Bradley Cooper Leonard Bernstein movie which is going to be major but they've got there's fewer movies this year that jump out from Netflix as what

their slate will be but there's also time for them to buy things as well, you know. So they have this movie Pain Hustlers that I do think is going to be a possible Emily Blunt play for Best Actress. That's a new David Yates movie, which feels very big short Wolf of Wall Street, sort of that kind of thing about like Big Pharma. They've got the new Fincher movie, which I don't think is going to be a Netflix play, or going to be an Oscars play.

But it's David Fincher and Andrew Kevin Walker reuniting for the first time since seven. That could honestly be a thing in its favor because David Fincher going for Oscars doesn't necessarily pan out in the end, you know, looking at, well, I'm sure it's never his intention as an artist. But when something is decided that that's going to be a project, it hasn't always worked out. They've got this Nicole Kidman, Zach Efron paperboy reunion thing happening with a family affair. But that looks like it's going to be like a holiday season, just comedy, comedy. I don't think that's going to be awards. She better pee on him in this one too. Give me a second.

There's a movie that Sam Esmail is directing with Julia Roberts. Sam Esmell is the Mr. Robot guy, but he's also he had done that show Homecoming for Amazon that Julia Roberts was on that I thought she was quite good. The movie is called Leave the World Behind. I think a lot of people, and it releases December 7th, supposedly. A lot of people are talking about that as an Oscar play. To me, that seems like, and I know this is going to make you Blanche, that seems like almost like a bird box thing. I was going to say the same example, yeah, especially for when they've timed it. Yeah, and just like the vibe of it has.

It's a sci-fi movie. It's a sci-fi sort of like post-apocalyptic dread. You know, nobody quite knows what's going on. Julia Roberts and Ethan Hawker, a married couple. and Mahershala Ali sort of shows up at their doorstep and bad things are happening. I'm excited for it, but I do feel like they're positioning that as kind of a birdbox thing.

They've got two other biopics, too, that I think have potential them being Rustin. We'll be very excited to see Coleman Domingo finally get an Oscar nomination if it happens. And Nyad for Annette Benning. If this could finally get Annette Benning her Oscar, and it's good LFG.

They also, I know this is not a movie you are super excited about at Sundance, but they have the Sundance movie Fairplay that is going to get released at some point this year. And, sorry, I'm just going through. I think that's probably more likely to be a movie that burns hot and heavy

on and gets people talking for a weekend and goes away. Sure. They also have another biopic, the John Ridley-Shurley-Chisom movie that is, Regina King in that role. So, yeah, they have some horses here.

And Maestro is obviously going to be, I think obviously, going to be the big one. But, again, they have shown an ability in recent years to have two, right? They had the Irishman and also marriage story. They had Mank and also Chicago 7. They had The Power of the Dog and what was the other one in 20? They had two of them. Oh, my. Shit.

This is the Katie Rich rule where the most recent years are the hardest to remember. Give me a second. What was that? What were they sending? They had lost daughter. They had... Lost daughter wasn't a Best Picture nominee, though. No.

Almost was. Almost was. Oh, God. There's a reason why we didn't remember it. It's don't look up. Oh, right. Power the dog and don't look up. We're both Best Picture nominees.

So anyway, it could be maestro and something else. It could be maestro and acting attention for Coleman Domingo and Annette Benning and Regina King. So we'll see. We'll see how it goes. But it's one of those things where I don't root for Netflix, but I root for a lot of Netflix movies. You know what I mean? Because they partner with talent that I really love. They partner with movies that I often really love.

and I don't I don't like Netflix as Netflix but I like a lot of what Netflix produces especially in films so there we are what else do we want to talk about we want to talk about the great

erotic comedy of our time that is Catherine Hahn at the actress roundtable this year oh my God we have to talk about this. Okay. People will lose their minds and be so justifiably angry at us. If we don't talk about the love story that is Catherine Hahn and Rachel Weiss and give us the whole lineup though first, because this was the one, this was everybody is in red, right? Everybody's wearing red. I do think that this is my favorite lineup, by the way. It's a good one. It's so memorable. It might not be

the best roundtable, but it is the best lineup. The lineup is obviously the aforementioned Catherine Han and Rachel Vise, Glenn Close and Lady Gaga, producing all of the memes of Glenn Close. That's the funny thing. Over at Gaga. So good. That was the early meme frontrunner was Glenn Close and Lady Gaga sort of like over the shoulder shots and whatnot. And they were, of course, at that point seen as the two frontrunners for Best Actress.

And then Regina King and Nicole Kidman. And when it feels like the afterthought of your roundtable is Nicole Kidman, that's pretty fucking great. Exactly. That's a great year. So all the attentions on Glenn Close and Lady Gaga initially. And like they deliver, right? As celebrities they both deliver. And

it's great. But then you watch the whole thing and immediately my takeaway is Catherine Hahn is so infatuated with Rachel Weiss. And you can, it's plain as day. Every time Rachel Weiss is talking, Catherine Hahn is looking

deeply into her eyes. She's so It's, again, it's like watching somebody... It's inspired fan cams constantly. It's like watching two people on a first date where one person is very fascinating and the other person is like falling in love with them in front of your eyes. She's finding every... Were you infatuating or were you infatuated? Catherine Hahn finds every excuse to like put her hand on Rachel Weiss's hand or like her hand on her arm and she's so complimentary about everything. and she is like fiddling with her hair in this very sort of like nervous energy kind of way.

We've all been Rachel, or we've all been Catherine Hahn in this situation with somebody. Especially when Rachel Weiss speaks. Well, and the other thing about it is, Rachel Weiss has this sort of power over all genders and gender expressions, right? We're like, everybody's into Rachel Weiss. And Rachel Weiss, let it be known, is into. everybody. That's the thing. There is this ambisexual energy that she places

out into the universe. And Catherine Hahn also has that receptive to anything energy about her too. So of course, when I tweeted the short little video I had of the two of them and sort of Catherine Hahn reacting

to her, that tweet still gets, every once in a while, I'll get a notification because, like, lesbian Twitter was all over it. Absolutely all over the Rachel Weiss Catherine Hom thing. There are several Rachel Weiss

clips of this because this is also the season where it was fun to get, before it got real fucking annoying and like aggressive when you would get actresses to say gay rights in person because there was also the video Olivia Coleman and Rachel Weiss saying

gay rights. On the favorite red carpet. Yeah. Yes. But there's also my, my low-key favorite Rachel Weiss video that sometimes will just like spread like wildfire like the fucking Santa Ana's it will just be on Twitter for four days is Rachel Weiss at some event and they're like so what are you excited for tonight and she's like I'm excited to look at all the beautiful girls all the beautiful girls and it's the best it's and of course the greatest Rachel Weiss quote of all time they ask some like insinuating question

about her and Daniel Craig related to their sex life and she said we didn't marry each other to play chess I've never heard that before that's phenomenal how have I never said that quote to you before I don't know but that's fantastic yeah they're like asking her about their sex life and she's like well we didn't marry

each other to play chess that's a hot relationship right there I mean I don't go in for the even though Darren Aronofsky and I are in a very tense spot in our relationship right now we're happy to move on whenever we're We can, but, like, yes. I'm not under speaking terms with him at this point after the whale.

And yet, I will be there for him for the next movie. I am willing to wipe the slate clean. He is, when he and I connect, I think his movies can be really good. So I don't always, I think there is a gay Twitter tendency to villainize Dieran Aronofsky from previous to this, from his sort of personal relationships. And I think I don't tend to get into that. But I will say, Rachel Weiss moving from Darren Aronofsky to Daniel Craig is one of the great upgrades in the Hollywood relationship. Well, you know their sex life is great, probably better, because there's less scarves in the way. It's true.

They tend to get in the way. Can we talk about the M4Gs for a second? Absolutely. This movie is nominated for Best Grown Up Love Story, loses to what they had, the life. Dementia movie where Hillary Swank is her daughter. Not a bad movie. That lineup, we could definitely do every single movie in that category. We've covered three of them, and we will at some point cover the fourth of them, even though one of the one half of this relationship is well and truly canceled. But we've done the old man in the gun, Cissy Spac and Robert

Redford. Great grown-up love story. Worthy winner, if it had won. We've done all is true, the Shakespeare-laden life movie, Kenneth Branagh and Judy Dench, wouldn't vote for them to win, but that's a very M4-G's nomination is... Yes. All is true. And then Catherine Hahn and Paul Giamatti,

a tremendous, tremendous choice and would have been a worthy winner. I've never seen what they had, so I can't speak to Blythe Danor and Robert Forster's love story in that movie. But have you seen that movie? Yes. I just said, it's not a bad movie.

So are they worthy winners? The worthiest winner is private life, to me. Though, what is more romantic than stealing bracelets together? I'm saying, old man in the gun, like, good gosh. No other nominations for the M4Gs, although I guess GMadi would have been eligible. He would have been over 50 by that point. I'm just, actually. He's only 55 right now.

Wow, how young was he for Sideways? Oh, my God. Oh, my God. No. No. No. He's in his... That 30s... It can't be possible. It cannot be possible. That Paul Giamati was younger and sideways than I am now. He was like 37. 37. 36.37. Get ready. Get ready. Your life from here on out is just... Do you know how many real housewives are younger than me right now? Do you know how off-putting and horrendous that is? This is the moment.

when Adele talked about her Saturn return? This is it. This is mine. It's all crashing down on you right now. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, my God. Where were you when you realized Paul Giamatti was younger than you and sideways? What one of the most recent best grown-up love story at the M4G's? Last year.

What would that have been? Good luck to you, Leo Grant. That was a good one. Good call. If, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, it is about her... learning to love herself. I know. We've had this conversation.

If the love story is self-love, because their story together is not a romantic relationship. But it's a good relationship. I think it's, I think if not necessarily strictly romantic, I think it's a relationship. I'm fine with it. Here's the thing. You know what's underrated about that movie? The third act waitress in that movie. Yes.

So good. She's spectacular. Loved her. Can I say, though, and I haven't seen Lady Chatterley's lover, another Netflix movie that played festivals that could have, like, that and Allquite on the Western Front had the exact same profile heading into the fall season. And I never saw that one. Emma Corrin and Jack O'Connell are nominated for Best Grown Up Love Story.

They are at most 30, right? Right. Amicoran is 27 years old. Jack O'Connell is 32 years old. What the fuck, M4Gs? We thought we had an ethos here. They're like, but it's an old book. Right.

like the book sold maybe that but the M4Gs will pull this every once in a while where you're just like what are we talking about but especially grown-up love story the whole like the idea

I guess it's a love story that grown-ups would appreciate but like you're really pushing it here y'all like come on now I don't know I don't know I'm dubious all right

I'm going to refer to my notes because I think I got everything Molly Shannon carving the Thanksgiving turkey when she's furious in that scene after she finds out that Kaylee Carter is donating the egg is so funny to me. When they're getting their injections, Kaylee Carter, Sadie says, this is so glamorous. We're like drugstore cowboy. I thought that was funny. Sadie and the guy from You're the worst going on the date to see the Phil Specter documentary was very funny to me. The film forum calendar on their refrigerator.

Oh, like so many, the piles of books behind their bed on like the windowsill behind their bed is so incredibly telling of this like Lower East Side apartment that they have. Oh, just the term oocyte feels very much like, you know, you find a term like that and you're going to find as many ways to use it in your movie as possible. So I'm into that. But yeah, private life, a great movie. The scene where they, the jump back in time, where they have the potential mother that will... Oh, a potential mother. This is a potential...

I don't even watch Housewives and, like, I'm so ingrained in Housewives culture. This is part of the reason why I don't watch is because it's like, do I need to? I still get all of the good stuff from everyone else secondhand. Yeah, exactly. Very intimidating franchise, because there's so much of it. I understand. It's like jumping into double touch. This is why I'll never get into Pokemon.

Like, it's just too much by now. There's too much has happened. Did watch Ultimate Girlstrip, though, because Alex McCord is coming on to one, so I have to watch one. I do know very beginning, Roney. No, the scene, the whole sequence of, of them getting completely played by this young woman who may not have ever been, probably wasn't even pregnant. They have to go to Arkansas, North Carolina? Where do they go?

Mm-hmm. Because you get the callback in that final shot of them waiting in that Applebee's, which is, which mirrors the, them waiting for this woman to show up, you know, for their meeting. And she never does. And they never hear from her again. And it likely, she was playing them. She was never even pregnant. It's one of the most brutal fucking sequences I've ever, like just the... Yeah, it's a gut punch. It's so painful. We started this episode talking about food. We're going to end this proper conversation before we get into the MDB game. Talking about food, you're sitting at an Applebee's booth. You're waiting for somebody to maybe arrive.

What are you ordering? You can't do this. You really can't do this to me. I am trying to eat well. And I don't want to talk about all the first. fried shit that I want to eat. But like, I mean, I'm, listen, I am somewhat of a toddler when it comes to food, but I, I want nothing more in the world than I want a fried mozzarella right now. This is the thing is you go to, I've never ordered, I've maybe never ordered an entree at

Applebee's in my entire life. That's probably not true, but almost always, when I go to Applebee's, it's an app's not, I don't order the app. The entree portion of that menu is purely ornamental. It is, It's not real. You go with your friends or maybe your sisters or whatever, and you just, you order a selection of apps. And then you just sort of pick and choose from the apps. You get your boneless barbecue wings. You get your spinach rachita choke dip. You get your mozzarella sticks.

You get your little tiny tacos. It's a time. It's a good time. You know what also is ornamental on that menu? Not just the entrees, but the appetizer that is a selection of apps. No, no, no, no, no. No, you get your individual. you get the individual apps, and then you pick and choose. It's great. Also, we've talked about this before.

We used to do apps and desserts, right? You order some apps, you get dessert, you're good to go. Not so much anymore, because they used to have this chocolate cookie hot fudge Sunday that was the greatest thing ever. And it was just this big old chocolate chip cookie with like a scoop of ice cream and some hot fudge and some whipped cream. and it was the greatest and you got multiple people who would pick at it so you didn't feel bad that you were having

this entire Sunday and they don't offer it anymore it's really too bad and I'm kind of sad about it. See, my thing is I don't, I mean, Applebee's is not really the selection for me. Granted, I would say Applebee's

is not super convenient here. Are you a Chili's girl? Are you a, eye hop? No, it's never really been Chili's. It's like, I don't know. I guess... What even, like, chain, if, I mean, the god tier of chain restaurants is Olive Garden. I mean, where else can you be in the world where you're there, your family?

For whatever reason, Olive Garden has disappointed me lately, and I wonder if, first of all, they've taken, once again, my favorite menu item off of the menu, which was the steak, Gorgonzola Alfredo, which was my go-to entree at Olive Garden. Now I'm a little bit at odds and ends over what to order as an entree at Olive Garden now, but, The breadsticks and the salads are what you go there for. And honestly, they don't disappoint. It's the most basic out-of-a-bag, ice-wring salad. For whatever reason, the thing where they come with the weird little, like, grindy thing of Parmesan? There's something alchemical in that, man. Like, I don't know.

It's amazing. I'm also going to show my age. And please, if this is a company that is fiercely republicans, and, like, donating to Trump, do not tell me. I should get an early A.A. P.Card for saying this. I love a Mimi's Cafe. Oh, I've never experienced a Mimi's Cafe. Is that a regional thing?

It is very, it is all of those things, but it is, you know, there's like a mural of a vineyard. Oh, see, that's nice. Did you ever have Perkins when you were growing up? No. See, some of this is so regional, too. Perkins was, like, a Denny's, was essentially like, like, Like, where the Perkins used to be is now with Denny's. But they had, and they know that, like, now everybody has chocolate chip pancakes,

but it felt like at the time, like, they were the pioneers of the chocolate chip pancake fat. And they were tremendous. That is a place I remember. One of the last smoking sections that I remember in a restaurant where, like, the kids don't know. The children don't know. You would go into a restaurant and they would say smoking or non-smoking, and you would have everybody in the non-smoking section. Not that it mattered.

The not smoking, the smoking section was not very far away, and it's not like it was, like, sealed off behind, like, a steel door or anything. They were just all smoking at the back of the restaurant. A denny's is basically an open-air experience. There's a whole, like, slanted roof. It, yeah. Right. This is the thing is I don't smoke. At the height of my smoking, I never really smoked much, but I miss smoking culture.

I miss vending machines with cigarettes. I miss every time I go to like, every time I go to Las Vegas. I've been to Las Vegas like twice. But like the idea that you can smoke inside the casinos is magical to me. Like all of that stuff is like a weird nostalgia for smoking culture that I am

shamefacedly nostalgic for. I don't know. Anyway, we should do the IMDB game. Yeah, why don't you tell us what the IMDB game is? I suppose I could. Every week we end our episodes with the IMDB game where we challenge each other with an actor or actress to try and guess the top four titles that IMDB says they are most known for. If any of those titles are television, voice only performances, or

non-acting credits, we mentioned that up front. After two wrong guesses, we get the remaining titles release years as a clue, and if that is not enough, it just becomes a free for all of hints. I've been calling it the past few weeks. What a, what, what, listen, let's let's talk about your needs. Okay. Let's, for once, let's talk about your needs. Thank you. What do you need? What do you want? Do you want to give or guess first? I will give first. I'm a giving person. All right. Do you have for me?

So I went into the cast of the slums of Beverly Hills, a fine movie that I do want to rewatch very soon. I thought about Natasha Leon for a second because we haven't done her, but a little bit farther down the cast list is an actress who burned brightly for a very short amount of time, Miss Mina Suvari. Ah, Mina Sufari. No television. What's that?

No time. What television is she done? She was on six feet under for like a season. Oh, okay. American Beauty. Yes, correct. American Pie. Yes, correct.

Was she in that movie Spun? She may have been in. She seems about right for that movie. That was what, 2001? I feel like I remember seeing a still where she's got really bad teeth because it's a movie about people who are addicted to drugs. Spun would have been like early. Yep, she was in Spun 2002, but no, that is not on her IMDB. Okay.

Wait, let me get the cast. list for Spun because everybody in that movie it's like, yep, that's about right. It's, oh, it's a Jonas Ackerelind movie. Jonas Ackerman did a bunch of music videos back in the day. He did Ray of Light. Possibly. He's done some Gaga videos too. So this cast

is Jason Schwartzman, who seems like the least Spun type of all these, but John Lugazamo, Patrick Fuget, Brittany Murphy, Mickey Rourke, Mina Suvari, Debbie Harry, Josh Peck, Eric Roberts. Like, that is your Peter Stormer as Mollett Cop.

That is... What else would he play in that movie? Of course. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Quite the lineup there for Spun. Anyway. All right.

So I have one wrong answer. Still waiting on two more movies. The thing with Minasuvari is that they're all going to be fairly close together, I'm guessing, the way that the Algo works. I wonder if I don't think she comes back for the other American Pie movies.

Does she? Because American Pie 2 could be in there. But hmm. The gay experience of watching American Pie is why is Natasha Leone not more in more of this movie? Yeah, she's ours.

Because her like two scenes. she's fabulous um yeah yeah uh okay what else i didn't i forgot that she's in slumps of beverly hills um i had two actually she's in a comedy like drop dead gorgeous but it's not dropped at gorgeous it's um that's gonna bug me i'm just gonna say american pie too it's not american pie too although she is in that movies. So, there you go. Your missing years are 2000 and 2005. Okay. So 2000 would have been the year in between the first two American Pie movies. Uh-huh. And the year after American Beauty. She's the second lead in it. She's the main love interest. It is an American Pie reunion.

Oh, it's Loser. It's Loser. Who directed? Ler. Amy Heckerland. Yes. Yes. Amy Heckerling's loser. I wanted to re-watch that movie since theaters because I remember, like, defending it because Owen Glaberman gave it an F. It's not an F. It's not an A, but it's not an F.

It's an interesting movie. The poster, unfortunately, has Jason Biggs doing this, making the L-L-L-luser sign. The tagline is also... Comanteered by Glee. The tagline is also Dare to Be Different, which... Ugh. The thing I mostly remember about that movie is he's, like, friends with these three awful dudes who all hate him. And it's, they're played by Zach Orth, Tom Sadowski, and Jimmy Simpson. And they all- Exactly that's who was in my mind of playing three awful dorks. Even though Tom Sadowski looks so, every outfit he has is like the gayest possible outfit. And I like, like, honestly, he's got like just like the lure open, like open to his navel shirts and all of this.

Fashion-wise for the youths, even straight, man. It was a pretty gay. Losers a real interesting fashion moment just in general of like how, what everybody wears in that movie, including. All I substantively remember is I think Minasuvari has an effect. fair with maybe a professor who might be Greg Kinnear, and there's portions of the movie set in a vet clinic? I think both of those things are true. Yes, yes, yes.

Okay. Okay, the other movie you said was 2005. 2005, she's not on the poster. She's not one of the top build stars. So already by 2005, this is another movie with a real interesting cast. Is this the wedding date? Isn't she? No, you're thinking of rumor has it, where she's,

the bride in rumor has it. Wow, this cast. This director is not alive anymore. Is it Altman? Is she in Dr. T. and the Women, a movie we have talked about on this podcast and also the mixed reviews. Terror Reed's in that. It's Tara Reid. Yes, that's the American Pie Star who is in Dr. T. and the women. That would have been what year? 99?

2000. 2000, I think, yeah. No. Mina Savari is not in Dr. T. and the Women. She is, I will say it's not beauty shop, even though she is in beauty shop, and that, I believe, was right around that at that time. She's one of, like, the two white characters. You're saying this cast, so I'm imagining it's a large ensemble. It is.

it has like a star like there is a star of this movie but like the ensemble cast is deep and peculiar a director who has since passed yeah who made a lot of movies um

uh has passed away it actually wouldn't be Altman because he was dead by then yeah no no when was Prairie Home Committee it was the next year so he would die um yes Yeah, she's like down, down, down, down, down this cast list.

That's interesting. Okay. Who, is this an Oscar winning director? No, although his brother is. Well, his brother's an Oscar director. Yes, Tony Scott. Is it Man on Fire? It's not Man on Fire.

That was I want to say, 03. This is kind of, this is a flop, I'm pretty sure. It was kind of Ballyhooed for a while, though, as it was in production. I remember people being very interested in it. A change of pace role for the lead actress. It's a, it's, it's headlined by an actress. A change of pace role in the same year that she was Oscar nominated. Oh, okay.

Someone nominated for an Oscar in 2005. Yes. Hmm. Okay. So. Supporting, well, no, I'll be able to get there. So, Rees Witherspoon wins. Is it Reese Witherspoon?

It's not Reese Witherspoon. Reese Witherspoon. Felicity Huffman. Oh, it's Domino. It's Domino. Kira Knightley as Domino Harvey and Domino. Wow. I need you to listen to this cast.

No, it's crazy. The three above title stars are Kira Knightley, Mickey Rourke, and Edgar Ramirez. Edgar Ramirez, would Carlos have even been by that point? I don't think so. This was like a pre-Carlos Edgar Ramirez, which is really interesting. Maybe, yeah. Delroy Lindo, Monique, Macy Gray, Dabney Coleman, Lucy Lou, Jacqueline Bessette, Dale Dickey, Christopher Walken. This is like all people we love. Mena Suvari. Tom Waits playing a character just called Wanderer, which is perfect. So he's playing Tom Waits, great. Jerry Springer as himself Brian Austin Green as himself Ian Ziering as himself Like what the fuck

I've never seen this movie I feel like I remember hearing That it wasn't very good But I may have to now Just for that cast Just in general I mean come on Gabriel Carteris also with herself

Okay so there was clearly a whole 902 angle to this Domino Harvey was a real person Right that was the whole thing Yeah It was a, yeah. Model-turned possible assassin? Yeah, bounty hunter, bounty hunter.

Anyway, yes. What is the distinction between a bounty hunter and an assassin? A bounty hunter feels like it's a little bit more. A bounty hunter doesn't necessarily take out their target. They capture. They're catching them. They're catching them for, usually for quasi-legal, extra-legal. sort of purposes, whatever, right?

Sure, sure, sure, sure, sure. Sometimes they can be hired out privately, I imagine. An assassin's just going to kill somebody. Okay. Great job, me. For you, I went super basic. We surprisingly have not done her before per the spreadsheet. I chose the Oscar winner this year.

The great living legend, Regina King. Regina King. No television. No television. No watchman, no 227, no American crime, no, oh, God, what was that Netflix show? She also won an ME4 that nobody watched. Seven seconds, something. All right.

Beale Street. Yes, her Oscar win. Yes. Uh-huh. Jerry McGuire Incorrect Damn it Yeah she's too far down the cast list

Jerry I am freaking out She's so good She's so good in that Boys in the Hood Also incorrect Damn okay All right so your years are 2004, 2004, 2005

2021 2004's got to be Ray It is Ray Should have been nominated Yeah She's great in that. 2005, did you say? Yes.

05, Regina King. Is it a movie I've seen? I'm positive you've seen this. Okay. How far down the cast list would she be, do you think? Probably second. Okay. Absolutely not first, but probably second.

I will look. Oh, is it miscingeniality too? armed and fabulous. Thank you for giving the full title. It is correct. Fantastic. I think I have seen that movie. I've definitely seen the first miscongeniality. I remember she's dressed up as Tina Turner in one scene in that. Yes, she performs a proud Mary in that movie. That movie feels like... In full Vegas drag. It could be presented in a double bill with Connie and Carla without a whole ton of... Yeah, I would host that double bill. Anyone across the country can host me to uh can uh have me host that gig please play it for my flight is 2021 the harder they fall

it is the harder they fall that's wild that she's great in that movie i love her in that movie but that's i bet she's probably second build because is idrasel with a villain in that i think he gets an and credit yeah yeah yeah yeah i would bet that she's second build yeah uh good daniel deadweiler performance in that movie i'm saying i think that was the first thing i had ever really made note of her in because that was just before station Me too. Me too. Yeah. That's an interesting, that's an intriguing known for, for Regina King, I have to say.

Very good. All right. All right. That's our episode. If you want more, this had Oscar Buzz. You should follow us on Tumblr at thisheadoscarbuzz.tumbler.com. You can also follow our Twitter account at had underscore Oscar underscore Buzz. And on Instagram at this had Oscar Buzz.

Please join us starting next week as we riff on the AFI format of 100. And we give you 100 years, 100 snubs, five weeks, 20 snubs a week. Very excited. I am on Twitter and letterbox at Joe Reed, readsfeld, R-E-I-D. I am on Twitter and letterbox at Chris V-File. That's F-E-I-L. We would like to thank Kyle Cummings for his fantastic artwork and Dave Gonzalez and Gavin Meevius for their technical guidance. Please remember to rate, like, and review us on Spotify, Apple Podcast, Google Play, Stitcher, wherever else you get your podcast.

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