This Had Oscar Buzz - 242 – Pride

Episode Date: June 12, 2023

This week’s episode is one we have promised for some time: 2014′s Pride. The film tells the true story of Lesbians and Gays Support the Miners, a queer activist group that partnered with a Welsh town in the 1980s during the mining strike under Thatcher’s rule. Following the lives of both the straight townsfolk and … Continue reading "242 – Pride"

Uh-oh, wrong house. No, the right house. I didn't get that! We want to talk to Marilyn Hacks. Mining communities are being bullied just like we are. What they need is cash. Yeah, because the miners have always come to our aid, haven't we? It doesn't matter. It's the right thing to do.

So we are going to pick a mining town completely at random. Uh, Wales. Die! Your gaze have arrived. Hello and welcome to the This Had Oscar Buzz podcast. The only podcast that loves him, Daddy. Every week on This Had Oscar Buzz, we'll be talking about a different movie. that once upon a time had Lofty Academy Award aspirations, but for some reason or another, it all went wrong.

The Oscar hopes died, and we are here to perform the autopsy. I'm your host, Joe Reed. I'm here, as always, with my gay who supports the miners. Chris Fyle. Hello, Chris. Lesbians and gays support the minors. This is, as I said before we started recording, this is going to be Chris Files' audition reel with him performing.

This episode is basically just me putting myself on tape. Great. Yes, exactly. No, I feel like this episode is going to be Chris Fyle, trying not to get very angry and crying about a state of, you know, queer rights within the United States and the world at large. I thought that too, as I watched this. Like, I've watched this movie many, many times now. And I always tear up by the end, of course. But I, it was impossible for it not to dawn on me.

We've talked about doing Pride for the month of June, because it's Pride Month in the United States. And I feel like we talked about even doing it last year, and then we got on the other side of June, because for whatever reason during the summer, we're always cramming these episodes in. Well, by the time we're done with May miniseries, our brains are empty and are, like, we've lost all sense of, like, what our other plans are. We are hollow shells. To the point where we almost forgot it this time. And we had to, like, last minute, change our schedule because thank God you remember that we had made several promises to do this movie in June. And I've been wanting to talk about this movie for a while.

But, you know, you're not more than five minutes into this movie before you realize, oh, this is a particularly appropriate time to be talking about this movie. This movie that talks about not only gay rights but labor rights were, you know, as we're recorded. this, the writer's strike is still going on. As we're recording this, trans rights are under siege in several states. I say this as if with the naive hope that we come out on the other time, there's maybe some better news, but the news has been rough, but there is no better time to talk about solidarity and, you know, cross. I mean, yeah. You talk about the idea of like allies and like certainly you know pride month and everything has become so corporate that you know things like this just become talking points that you can kind of roll your eyes at but i think this movie does it incredibly well and uh i hope our listeners are keeping that in mind especially if they are the type of listener that goes and watches the film uh but generally speaking uh you know if you are right now a cisgendered person in this country please uh now is not the time to to shut up or not speak up in speaking out against these legislations that are, you know,

using such broad language to attack as many people as they can. And especially trans people and gender non-conforming people or people who express their gender in a way outside of the binary. Yeah, now is not the time to shut up. we're stronger together we are all of our what happens to one of us what happens is what happens to all of us you know what I mean like that's sort of that's that's something that you know I believe but I also you see something you see a movie like pride and it's and it's underlined in a very specific way in a way that you know has a historical context to it but is also a much more universal message that applies to uh any number of contexts, but specifically what's going on in the world today. And support unions.

Support unions. Support your brothers, sisters, and gender non-conforming folks. Yeah, we're going to be talking about the 2014 movie Pride, one of my favorites. A movie we love. It's one of those

movies that presents as a very sort of comforting genre that I love, which is British social like social commentary with a ton of

you know, heart and sentiment and humor and, you know, it's the United States does not have this genre of movie. You know what I mean? Even when you talk about like they don't make them like the use to anymore. I don't even think like there was a moment like when like you know we talk about like legal thrillers in the 90s or whatever like

i don't know if america's ever really done this movie this kind of movie well and like our living memory do you know what i mean the social uplift uh serious comedy and and i guess i would imagine that has something to do with sort of the the cultural specificity of Great Britain and the United Kingdom in general, and this movie, obviously, is based on a true story and has such specificity to, like, Welsh people, and there's, you know, Andrew Scott's character who has such a very specific relationship to his history and, you know, Bill Nye's character and Demelda Stanton, and just there is a... There is a lot of history to this, cultural history to this movie that I'm not really as plugged into, but as a sort of tourist to this, I find illuminating and enlightening and also incredibly watchable.

It's just an incredibly lovely heartwarming sounds pejorative, you know what I mean? I feel like so many of the descriptors you could. used to describe this movie sound like a pejorative or sound like you're patting it on the head or something. But this, I mean like the depth of feeling of this movie is one of

its assets, especially for a movie that is fundamentally an ensemble movie. I think for someone who's maybe familiar for this movie, but hasn't actually seen it, you're probably expecting a lot more amount to ston and a lot more Bill Nye based off of like the poster of the movie.

or maybe what you've seen in the trailer. And, you know, there's certainly the, like, key figures of this movie, but there is a certain amount of compassion given to every single character in this movie. They all feel fully fleshed out and integral to what this movement was in a way that feels like it's doing justice by the subject matter of what it's portraying and that it is not ever about. one person. It is about a collective. It is about, you know, everyone's, you know, journey through this process. Yeah. Well, and it's a movie that values both individual interactions and also group action. You know what I mean? Like both of those things at once, which I find very smart. It's also a movie that is going to give us a lot of avenues to talk about, right? We're going to be talking about the Cannes Film Festival. We're going to be talking about the Golden Globes. We're going to be talking about theater directors who become film directors. And of course, this cast, which in 2014, it was already a pretty strong cast. And it's like, there were definitely, obviously, we all knew who Amel de Staunton and Bill Nye and Dominic West and, you know, Patty Consonine were.

But, like, this is a cast. Real ones knew who Andrew Scott was already. Well, that's the thing is, okay. What did you know Andrew Scott from by the time you saw this movie? Saw him on Broadway with Julian Moore and Bill Nye in the Vertical Hour. Ah, very nice. Which, like, at the time, I like that play a lot more than most people, but at the time, it was just kind of like, okay, this is just like star-to-law. I think also by this point, he was known from Sherlock, I'm pretty sure.

Not a real one here then. Sure. But I think by that point- Andrew Scott was tremendous in that show. Yeah. Who's the playwright of The Vertical Hour? David Hare. Right.

Is it the Parthal Hour? Am I conflating that with a different show? hold on please i don't know you look that up i'll i'll remind our listeners because that's like the that's like the the era of broadway play that was like the blank blank and it would be sure you know noun associated with adjective that doesn't seem like it goes with that noun well and i also think of like the real thing or like um you know the blue the blue room or the i don't know i don't know other things like that. But anyway, Andrew Scott... It is the Vertical Hour.

Yeah. Played the Moriarty character on... What was the... What was the... The COVID Tonys that there was the play that got a bunch... It was something like the Vertical Hour. It was like...

The COVID Tonys. Well, I guess that's a noun and adjective. Using COVID as an adjective. Wow. I know. Hold on. I'll look it up to one. 2021 Tony Awards.

Let's see. Pre-hot priest Andrew Scott, and now everyone... Right. Are you thinking of the inheritance? No, no, not that. By the way, everyone wanted to hate. As we record this next week's, the other two, but by the time people are listening to this,

it would be episode five of the other two, has a tremendous joke about both the inheritance but also Angels in America but also like any of these sort of expansive gay plays.

Can you stand in my truth for a second? You and I have at this conversation. Yeah. I'm not fully on board with this season of the other two. It feels like it's lost some of its... Have you watched this week's episode? Not yet, no.

Watch it first. Okay. I love it so much. I love it so. so much. I can't, I can't, I can't co-sign with you on this. I think it's a tremendous season of the other two. And I think, I think it's clearly the weakest season. Thus far, thus far, I mean, like, we'll see how I feel on the opposite end up. But the, the first, the three or so episodes that I've watched two, maybe three, I'm like, this is probably going to be the weakest season.

It's definitely, it takes a more pronounced step towards surrealism, which I think took me a little bit to get used to, I think by episodes four and five, it gets fantastic. Are you thinking episodes one and two, for me, we're taking a pronounced step towards not being as funny as it's been. I cannot. I cannot go with you on that. The whole thing with Brooke being a ghost and wanting to know what DeBaby did, I think is a tremendously funny joke.

Are you thinking of the Lehman trilogy? Are you thinking of... It's like one of those shows that has like Jane Alexander. in it. Jesus Christ. That's very specific. Mary Louise Parker won a Tony Award for something called The Sound Inside. Are you thinking of that?

Maybe. I mean, there's always shows on Broadway. There's always plays that have titles like this, where it just feels like, you know, throwing darts at a dartboard that has words on it, you know? Estelle Parsons got nominated for a play called The Velocity of Autumn, which to me is like, that sounds like a fake play title. Like, that, that to me is always, like, my number one. Anyway, I don't know.

I can't keep going through. Anyway, let's get back to Pratton off of the COVID-todies. Yeah. The COVID-Totony. But anyway, what I was trying to say was before you decided to butt in with your braggingness about having seen Andrew Scott on Broadway before anybody knew who he was. This is a cast that looks very, that is all the more impressive. from a 2023 perspective than, you know, we didn't really know who George Mackay was back then. We didn't really, more people now at least know who Andrew Scott is. And it's a really phenomenal cast. And I love everybody in it so much. And I don't know. Talk about this cast for a second. I mean, I most fall in love with the people who you don't, these are probably actors you may or may not have even seen again since this movie, the ones that you, like, that are less famous, including some of these actresses who are in the, they're, like, the Welsh allies, basically.

Yes. Um, obviously there's a Melda Staunton there, but, uh, iconic queen, mena Trusler with, uh, Where Are My Lesbians? I do, we do, she is a, an unofficial mascot of this had Oscar buzz. Um, Where are my lesbians? What, uh, it's, again, what are my lesbians? In a lesser movie, that plays as kind of a clunker, right? Like, all of her stuff, like, plays a lot more clunkily. And it's really, is a testament to the fact that, like, a movie can earn its sentimentality, and a movie can earn its kind of middlebrow humor, you know what I mean, in a way that makes it work. You know what I mean?

And I think you allow and afford a kind of grace towards a movie that is doing so much. many things well that, you know, a character like this who is like, you know, Granny gets cool with the lesbians, right? You know what I mean? Like she's, she has the line from the trailer, which is just talking about, you know, you can answer, you can answer this question I've heard about lesbians and I've always wanted to know and you can clear this up for me and they're like, no, no, no, no. And the question ends up being like, are all lesbians, vegetarians. Well, and then they tell her, actually, we're

vegan, and then she's re-traumatized. But, like, this is a movie that makes it work to have, like, a Mel de Staunton in a bondage club. You know what I mean? Like, all these things that could seem really corny. And, like, refusing to be barred. Refusing to be denied. Absolutely, she will be there.

But then it's just, like, you get this panning shot afterwards, that is a, both very funny, but also in the context of this movie and what the movie had, the feeling of the movie I think has earned. It's very moving to see, like, Amaldestant and just having a casual conversation

in a dimly lit bar with, like, a guy in leather gear. They, at one point during that shot, they pan past somebody, and it's like a couple of the Welsh ladies just talking to a guy with a ball gag in his mouth. And like, I guess,

like it's a joke at him because he cannot speak right um but uh it's it's again could come across as corny but really really doesn't in the context of this movie um i would have to say that my favorite of that part of the ensemble is actually jessica gunning's performance so good she's so good as shan yeah who uh you know you learn through the after titles the woman that she is playing you know, eventually went to school, got through Congress, like just you watch this woman get activated within the movement and also becoming, you know, just a real, I mean, like, I don't want to keep saying the word ally in this because like people use ally in a way that means absolutely nothing. But like you see through this character in a way that it does mean something.

Her Wikipedia page is a photo of her, this is Sham James, by the way, who is a member of parliament for Swansea or was for a time in the odds Wikipedia photo is her in a pink t-shirt

with a pink feather boa from Amsterdam gay pride in 2016 so like an ally feels appropriate right? You know what I mean?

Clearly this has been a part of her life's work so we love and support our political allies So, but that's, that's, again, that's what this movie is, right? It is, it's finding allies and not allowing, there are 8 billion reasons why gay activists and striking minors could have found to avoid each other and to not build this alliance. On both sides, there are good reasons. You get that moment when Mark Ashton is pitching this idea.

to his group of gay activists. And the one guy is like, these minors who are striking, these are the people who made my life hell growing up. These are the people who kicked my ass every day walking to school, and they kicked my ass on every day walking home from school. And he sort of walks out. And like, that's a valid, you know, that's a valid, lived experience from this person. There are so many reasons why that, you know, that gay,

gay people could be like, why, you know, these people, why, the screenwriter, whose name is Stephen Beresford, essentially said when he was, had conceived of this movie, because he didn't really, part of the conception for this movie was not a lot of people know this story, not a lot of people know this, you know, thing that actually happened. And he was, it came from a sort of conversation slash argument he was having with a friend of his. who's essentially saying, why should I give a shit about these, you know, minors? Why should I give a shit about people who don't give a shit about me? Why should I care about these people who, you know, would probably call me, you know, a faggot

or, you know, some other, you know, horrible slur? And then his friend told him about this, you know, this event from the 1980s. and this sort of historical kinship between the minors and gay activists. But it's a thing of like, it's an obstacle, right? It's an obstacle for all these people. And with 8 billion reasons to say, you know, our efforts can be better spent within ourselves, without our own borders, within our own, you know, community. And it's that act, it's that thing that Patty Considine's character says, right?

The thing he makes a very big symbol of like the handshake, right? Two people reaching out and taking, taking the chance to, and like, risking ridicule, essentially, right? To accept the help and extend help to people who are not like you. And it sounds very simplistic. but it's it's emotionally deeply complicated and I think this movie acknowledges both of those things that's why I think it's great you know what good movie good movie let's talk about it let's talk about the plot Chris uh plot description's gonna be hard for this without overgeneralizing but there's so many characters that are like part of the tapestry of the movie that is like you can't get into

the weeds with any one character. Uh-huh. Yeah. Well, lower expectations all you want, but you're going to be on the clock for 60 seconds. Okay, great. Um, are you ready? Yes. All right, Chris File.

60-second plot description of the 2014 movie Pride starts now. All right, so we're going back 30 years in time to the British Minor Strike. Meanwhile, there are, there are LGBTQ active. in the British Isles, you know, working for their own causes, they get in, they start a group called lesbians, gay, support the minors, and they are looking for a partnership throughout the protests going on in the minor strike. They strike a relationship with a Welsh town, and they all become enmeshed and ingrained in each other's and supporting each other's mutual causes. Meanwhile, they develop these close relationships. We discover that certain members are already afflicted with AIDS. One young man played by George Mackay is hidden by his family and pulled away from the town,

and then he eventually leaves the house. The mining strike ends. They go and show their support for the miners, and that is not forgotten because during the 1985 Pride Parade, the miners show up to show their support to. the queer community and they're all at the front of the pride parade. Boom, ten seconds over. Solidarity. Solidarity. Forever. Victory to the minors. Yes. Support the labor party. Exactly. Exactly. Well, that's one of the postscripts is that the labor party sort of adopted

into their platform, essentially adopted gay rights into their platform. Somebody got the labor party on a cell phone video and had them say gay rights. and they did it. Gay rights. We see the gay flags over there, gay rights. Minors' rights. We see the miners' flags over there, minors' rights. And I think it's one of those things where, in this country in America, for an American watching this movie, in this country that has so sort of successfully eroded labor rights in so many sectors, right, has so successfully beaten down the prominence of unions. for people to watch this movie in America

and see the success of a labor movement. And by the way, the minor strike in 84 and 85 did not end victoriously for the minors. Thatcher, for all intents and purposes, sort of like got the victory over them. And it's, and again, I say this with all due caveats as, like, I am not a scholar of this period. I was a wee little toddler in real life when this was happening.

I'm also a dumb fuck American who, like, doesn't, I'm not an expert in that period in British history. But from the context that I have read through interviews with Stephen Beresford and, you know, people talking about this movie, that that minor strike is a defeat for labor. And this movie is a reminder and sort of a little bit of a recapturing of that in that like there was there was success that comes out of that, right? A stronger, more unified worker base, right? Worker environment, a labor party that managed to become even more representative of the working people. of Green Britain. Well, like that whole post-script thing in this movie, that's normally a device that feels lazy or, you know, reductive in a way. I think in this movie, everything that it shows you throughout the movie, those postscripts are really impactful because it does, you know, show this all was not for nothing, you know.

Right. And it's, there was a real striking of solidarity there. there was, you know, bringing people together, even though the minor strike was not successful, that, you know, the efforts of LGSM was remembered and they still showed up for that for, you know, queer people. So sort of, we're not a podcast that really goes through chronologically to talk about a movie, but, like, I want to start off by talking about the way that the gay characters are sort of introduced in this movie and are shown as a community and shown as a primarily an activist

community, right? We see them obviously like, you know, they go out, they have fun, but this is not a movie that, like, for example, spends a lot of time talking about romantic entanglements or like, like, clearly there are, there are strong feelings that exist between, let's say, for example, Mike, the Joseph Gilgan character, and Mark, where there's something of a longing there, right? There's something of, something unspoken there. We see Joe, the George McKay character, sort of has his first romantic experience with a guy at the Bronsky Beat concert. We see Steph talk about her sort of love Lauren sort of existence, right? And she has all these exes, but, and then obviously Jonathan and Geffen are this like

long time committed couple who represent a sort of generation before, these younger agitators or whatever. But this is a movie that first and foremost, sort of talks about them as an activist community. And I love that because I just, like, you don't see that as much, right? You know what I mean? Like, you don't, I just, there's so much of this movie that feels like this kind of thing existed in America, but like in a totally different way and, like, doesn't really exist in America's cultural conception.

Even when, like, American movies about gay history talk about this period, we get shit like Stonewall, right? Which, like, doesn't feel real, which doesn't feel like you're looking at real communities. Or you get stuff that feels very, like, historical travelogue, right? Like, this was, you know, this was an event that happened, and this was an event that happened. And whereas this just feels like a very lived in. gay, you know, friendship collective of people who are first and foremost activists.

That is also, you know, I think incredibly mainstream in terms of the, you know, sentiment of it, even though it doesn't really pull, I mean, like, I don't think it shies away from any of the, like, depth of it. You know, we've seen the ultra-mainstream version of it. That's a piece of shit.

of this type of movie but where was I going with this it also there is a certain level of authenticity there because like I love a gay movie about infighting this is like the mainstream BPM in a way and that like so

about BPM quite a bit is so like not just about activism obviously and not just activism of this or at least an adjacent period but so much about the process of organizing and infighting being such a part of that. In this movie, obviously, you see the lesbian group that breaks apart and forms their own group

because of not being able to have their voices heard within LGSM, even though lesbian people do stay a part of that group. Yeah, I love a movie about infighting because, like, you can't, I feel like you can't, gay people and queer people are so turned to. into a monolith in the culture that we are never allowed to really have a presentation

very often where it's like well we don't all fucking like each other but we're also not all tearing each other down like monsters either. Right. This movie does that very well. Well and you see sort of like the frustrations that exist between like the tactical

sort of disagreements between Mike and Mark and the you know interpersonal sort of annoyances that some people have with each other. I would love to know how Ben Schnitzer gets cast in this movie, not because he's not good

because I think he's great as Mark. He's the only American in this cast, and he's like such a prominent role. And like, I find it fascinating that it's not like it's not like they reach to get a name in this role. And, like, well, we had to get a name, so we cast an American or something like that.

Maybe it's just because he pulls off that Morrissey haircut so well. I mean, honestly, I'd believe it because he does. It's someone like that, one of the queer music. Morrissey's also a horrible person. Yes. And can sport, though, a dangly earring as good as any of the ears. The hair. The hair is great. The hair is fantastic.

I cannot speak towards accents. So somebody who's, you know, more of an expert in that can tell me how well he did. accent-wise, all I can tell you is Dumb-Dum Joe walked out of this movie and had no idea that Ben Schnitzer wasn't American. The first tip-off that I got was when I saw that his name was Ben Schnitzer and I'm like, oh, is he

related to the guy who played Cass on another world because Soapoper Joe immediately looked it up and of course he is. He's Steven Schnitzer's son and Stephen Schnitzer's sure American, so what's that? I said, Neppo Baby. Ah, well, yes, and yet also, like, it's funny that, like,

nepo baby coming from, like, you know, a soap opera lifer is funny, too, because it's like, um... You're also not going to catch me, uh, uh, dismerching the good name of nepo babies, some of my faves are not. Listen, I think it's a fascinating, I think it's a fascinating conversation, but I don't, uh, ultimately to me, if you're good, you're good. And, and if you got there, we can be honest about how you got there. But anyway, regardless.

I think he's fantastic in this movie. Do you think you were, the veil or the wool, whatever it is, was pulled over your eyes because you find him so smoochable? Oh, no, I famously don't find men in movies attractive, and I don't allow that at all to get in the way of my absolutely stone-cold objective. way of judging actress and actresses. Yeah, of course. Like, he's hot as shit. Like, all the boys in this movie are very adorable to me.

Andrew Scott playing a bashed. Like, Andrew Scott is a very versatile actor who can play a lot of different types of characters, right? He can play sort of a bureaucrat and he can play a villain and he can play a hero. He can play a father

to a free-spirited a young girl in medieval times or whatever. Oh, God, what a performance. Incredible. Go see Catherine Called Birdie, if you haven't seen it already. Yeah, have Gary's watched Catherine Called Birdie? Go do it. But in this movie, he plays this. From the second you see him, he's more reserved than anybody else, and you sort of wonder, does he disapprove of these people?

Is he like a little bit of like a grumpy, older, gay who like is annoyed by these guys? And, like, the more you see about Geffen, he has this sort of rich and sad history with Wales, where he comes from. And, you know, this fraught relationship with his parents, as many gay people do. And watching him play sort of shy and abashed when he's, when he finally does go to Wales and starts interacting with, the Welsh characters in this movie is so. goddamn cute like it's above everything else it's affecting and it's well performed but it's also so

goddamn cute well and he also like you know he gets so ingrained very very quickly to despite you know all of his reservations and his fear for lack of a better word of getting involved

yeah he got a nomination for supporting actor by the British Independent Film Awards and or he won. He and Amanda Stanton both won. And I think, rightly so. I think were I a voter, I would have happily cast my ballot for him. What did you think of George Mackay as Bromley, as Joe, the sort of, he's not quite a cipher, but he's also like a central character who is very much not the most interesting character. And I don't think he's not.

the movie's under any illusion that he is the most interesting character either. It's probably the character that most veers towards, you know, maybe cliche is too strong of a word, but like the type of story we see when we see stories like this in movies that are not as good as he's shy, he's wondering if he's ever going to tell his parents the truth about him. He's also the coming out story of this movie, even though essentially he, I mean, I mean, I do think that his coming out story is much more true than like the type of coming out story. out stories we see all the time where it's just like, you know, some conventionally attractive, usually white guy in movies is just like, I don't know, do I come out, I'm a soft boy, and then

they come out and it's like pretty much all embraced by everyone around. Yeah, he leaves his family by the end of this and there's no sort of indication that that's ever going to change. Well, but I think what's true about this is like he does have a community that he's very out to simultaneously while being very closeted with his family. That is more honest to, I think, what a lot of people's experience is. That kind of double life, yeah. To answer your question, you know how I feel about George Mackay as a performer. I don't feel any differently in this movie.

Are you in general not a fan? I am generally quite not a fan. What is this coming from? What are the... Every performance I have seen him give. Um, quite truly. I know you're generally not a fan of 1917. I know, uh...

I think 1917 is not as good as it could be because I don't think he is good at all in that movie. Um, all due respect. I don't think that's a movie that depends on... I don't know. I don't think that's a movie that depends on the actor, but I also think he's... I kind of think it does.

He's also, um, and I'm trying to think of like the other movies that people might know him from. So he was the son and Captain Fantastic that Vigo Mortensen gets a nomination for. I always mentally put him in Dunkirk, I think maybe because of 1917. Well, I mean, a certain age range of twinks. They're quite possibly in Dunkirk. Did you ever see the true history of the Kelly Gang? Yes, he's not good in it.

A cool movie, though. It is kind of a cool movie. So you were not buying. No, him as... Nicholas Holt in Garters and Nothing Else in True History of the Kelly Gang. Yowie, wawi, yes.

So he's in an upcoming movie directed, written and directed by... The Joshua Oppenheimer, who is a documentary... I will be very excited for this. Documentarian who directed the films, The Act of Killing and the Look of Silence, which were both sort of these hand-and-hand. hand movies about the Indonesian genocide that were tremendous.

And so this, taking a little bit, I would say just a little bit of a turn from the documentary filmmaking, it's supposedly an apocalyptic musical about a family who lives in an underground bunker two decades after the end of the world. And it's Tilda Swinton, George McKay, Michael Shannon, and I'm fascinated. George McKay, as the child of Tilda Swinton and Michael Shannon, makes more sense than anything else in the world. It makes complete sense. If you told me that, to talk about Nepobase, if you told me that George McKay was like Tilda Swinton's secret son that she's not acknowledging or whatever, for whatever reason, like, I wouldn't believe it. I don't know. I also think in terms of acting styles, he is right at the center of the Venn diagram of both of those two actors, but not the things that make them great. I don't want to just. keep dogging on him as a performer. I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I,

never, uh, uh, who are your best in shows from this sort of, uh, segment of the cast, the, uh, the LGS folk. I mean, I do think Schnitzer is wonderful, Andrew Scott's wonderful. I love Faye Marseille as Steph. I could watch a whole goddamn movie about Steph. I love her. She showed up in Andor, the first season of Andor, and I, like, whooped it up. I was so psyched.

I was so happy to see her. It was like an old friend. She's wonderful. You want more of her. I also want more of Joseph Gilgan. and his teeny tiny little hat that's the one where I'm just like what a handsome man

I looked him up and I was like what other things that he had done he apparently was on that show Preacher with Dominic West and Ruth Nega and that's sort of the maybe the most high profile thing he's been in

yeah he's wonderful in this movie I think he's so good and again this is a movie that really gives you a sense that these people have that you're seeing maybe just like the the tip of the iceberg of these characters and they all give the sense that they have these like really interesting, you know, lives that are happening

even, you know, when you're not watching. I also loved Karina Fernandez and Jesse Cave as... I always scream every time I see Karina Fernandez. Karina Fernandez also playing, no offense to the real woman, the kind of quintessential white woman in dreadlocks in this movie. But adore her as a performer, especially in Mike Lee's films. She's so good in, it's another year, right, where she's, right? Because she's the woman that Leslie Manville, like, hates for no good reason. Just like couldn't be a nicer, more genuine person, could not show Leslie Manville more effortless grace.

And like that only just like makes Leslie Manville fucking hate her even more because she's Ruth Sheen and Jim Broadbent's son's girlfriend. She's also somewhat iconically rather playing quite a cliche. But I think what makes the performance funny is not the cliches of it. in Happy Go Lucky, where she is the flamenco teacher. The dance instructor, yes. Who unravels in explaining what people need to, like, bring to their dance, what they need to bring to them, unravels and reveals her own relationship issues. It starts sobbing about her bastard boyfriend.

Oh, she's great. I love her. And then Jesse Cave, who plays her girlfriend in the movie, which I didn't realize until I looked up the cast, is Lavender Brown in the Harry Potter movies and the thing I always said about Harry Potter and the Half Blood Prince

which was the movie right before the two-part final film that movie for long stretches becomes a romantic comedy it's in many ways one of my favorite movies of the series because it like does just sort of like become a romantic comedy

and she's so fucking funny and like it's a real highlight of that movie. In a way that, like, I read all the Harry Potter books. And, like, Lavender Brown was, like, fine in the books. But, like, she's so wonderful in that film. And so finding out that that's who she was. Because she's sort of, like, she's kind of hidden behind these big glasses in this movie

and Pride and whatever. And Stella's the one who gets all the sort of, you know, lines talking about wanting to form their little breakoff group and whatever. She's delightful. So then you go to Wales and you're introduced to this other very, like very lived in community. And it's another thing where like there are these relationships that you believe, you know, go back, you know, decades and decades in this, you know, community that feels very real. The scene where Amelda Stanton and Bill Nye are making butter, or not even butter, like margarine sandwiches, like, you know, we haven't talked about Bill Nye yet well we're gonna this is why I'm introducing this and and he's cutting the sandwiches into little triangles and he's being he's this very soft spoken except for when he's talking about union stuff when he's talking about he gets really fired up talking about how much he hates Thatcher and about how the you know the pit and the people are are inextricable but otherwise he's this very sort of like

soft-spoken. He's, you know, he's a writer and he's this, you know, you still waters run deep with this guy. Initially awkward around LGSM. Because we think he's this stuffy, older gentleman, you know, like. And you find out in this scene that he says, you know, well, I'm gay. And she says, well, I know I've known for a while. And she says since about 1968. And there's a goddamn tone. of story there in that scene, right? Because all of a sudden, then, your conception, and I mean, maybe some people watching this movie, like, clocked him earlier, whatever, but you're realizing a whole story about this guy sort of unfolds in front of you in that moment of this is a guy who's lived in this town his whole life and has been closeted his whole life. And what must he

have been, what must he think of this group of young and energetic and who have built this community around each other? Like, in that moment, I at least get very emotional, be thinking about this guy's life and this, you know, what, where his head must be at this moment. And And the movie just sort of like lets that kind of sit for a second. And it doesn't really draw an arrow. And he doesn't ever have this moment. Pardon me. I go back and forth wishing that maybe they had given him his character a scene with

or a bond with one of the LGSM people. Do you know what I mean? And maybe he has a conversation with just somebody, just like where he expresses himself and part of me feels like maybe that's a little to

like fairy godmother you know what I mean and he has that moment March at the end yes this is the scene I was going to say what we do get with this character that's so good is

and like maybe you know queer people understand this scene on a level that you know straight people might not in that is being interviewed as a representative of the, you know, the minor support group by a local news station. And the, you know, reporter is like, all these, like, deviant gay and lesbians, isn't that weird that they just come into your town?

And the very casual, without missing a beat, queer confrontational, sass, for lack of a better word, where he's just like, well, why would that be weird? It's Lady Gaga talking to Anderson Cooper and being like, so what if I have a dick? Like that kind of stuff. Like, what do people care? Yes, absolutely. But, you know, it's also that level of this woman absolutely assumes that she is speaking to a heterosexual man and doesn't know shit. He tells her she doesn't know shit without saying it. And it's like all of us who are watching that, that know what he just did.

and maybe, you know, the straight people watching get a different message that they also need to hear. But there's also that beautiful moment when the, at the Pride Parade at the end, with the, you know, the miners are all leading the parade and everybody's got their banners up. And Cliff, the Bill Nye character, is sort of, you know, walking,

and he sees this banner that says, like, gay poets or something like that. And he kind of holds up and he walks, joins that group and it's this thing of like he has found his his niche right his people and it's this thing of like you know it's never too old you're never too old to find you know where you fit in exactly and and it's just a beautiful moment of this guy who probably and again it speaks volumes without saying anything about this character who like you know, probably never, never thought that he would find anything like a community.

And, like, who knows where it goes from there? Maybe it is just that one moment for him. And he goes back to Wales and he, you know, resumes his life. But, like, to know that there is a community out there for him. I think it's a very beautiful moment. Well, and I think, especially with this character, to describe these scenes, makes it, you know, to describe it makes it, like, more pronounced than I think there is. is. There is a modesty to this movie that makes it way more effective than other maybe similar movies that overplay these moments that are just less effective and, you know, in that way,

become less emotional. It's a movie that when you describe it sounds, doesn't sound as good as it is. It's one of those things where I just tell people, like, just watch it. It's right now streaming on Paramount Plus. If you have Paramount Plus to watch Drag Race All-Stars, next time. you're on there. As we were talking about last week with Selena, we were making our own post-drag race movie. This is a great post-drag race movie. It's a wonderful post-drag race movie. It's a perfect one, actually. So next time you're watching Drag Race All-Stars, and you need an act out to replicate. You're feeling the lack of mean girls or Titanic in your life. Click on over on Paramount Plus and watch Pride. You will not regret it. Okay. So this movie premiered at the Cannes Film Festival in 20, 2014. This is the thing I often forget. I don't think I was paying, I pay attention to Cannes. Historically, I've paid attention to Cannes sort of top level. I am always, I've never been a person who wants to read too many reviews of movies that I haven't seen because they get so paranoid about not having my own authentic reactions to things that I want to sort of go in as fresh as possible to things. I've gotten better at that. Can is usually when I break some of that, because it's like it's so long until I'm going to see some of these things. I just want to read what there is about some things and then put it out of my mind, and months later I will see some of this stuff. So this was the can that Winter Sleep wins the Palm Door.

Jane Campion's Jury. Jane Campion's Jury. And that filmmaker, whose name is escaping me. Nourn Bill Chilon. Yes, who has a film at this year's Cannes, which could possibly win the palm again? I don't know. We are recording this mid-can. Yes.

You'll know by the time you're listening to this, whether that has happened or not. But it's one of the better-reviewed films of Cannes so far. About dry grasses, it is called. Okay, so, but Pride screened as part of director's Fortnite, which is one of the several sort of satellite festival that happened. It's not officially connected to the main festival, but because they are simultaneous, there is a lot of connection there. You know, when you see press there, they will be accredited to both. I believe Director's Fortnight, if I've understood people correctly, if you get accredited to Cannes, they just give it to you at Director's Fortnight. It's in smaller theaters, usually more smaller off the beaten path films that they've said they are, you know, kind of of lay.

cementing themselves as a festival for first and second time filmmakers, they want to do less of, well, you weren't selected for Cannes, and we will accept movies. Less of like a consolation prize. Right, we will, there was historically, like, you're not accepted into main competition, so then they submit to Directors Fortnight. I see. Some now, now there are just movies that go, that don't bother submitting to main competition. And you see it in the Directors Fortnight lineup now, where it's like this year it's a lot smaller movies

but like an avenue like that can get you attention that maybe you would get buried if you were in a certain regard or you were in main competition Right so this is actually a pretty like looking at this can lineup

and obviously hindsight matters a lot with a lot of can lineups and you go back but like this particular one Winter Sleep wins the palm but like in competition were films like Mr. Turner, Michael Lee's Mr. Turner, Clouds of Sills Maria, Foxcatcher, Timbuktu,

which was a foreign language film nominee? Great movie, yes. Fantastic movie. Two Days and One Night, the Dardin movie that gets a nomination for Marion Cotillard. Your Beloved Maps to the Stars, David Cronenberg's. I wouldn't say Beloved, but Julianne is amazing in that movie. Jean-Luc Goddard's Goodbye to Language, which was the one that any time you looked at still photographs of it in a review,

looked like a, a magic eye, uh, uh, uh, image, um, or a, uh, it was, it was, obviously, it was a 3D movie that was, uh, I never saw goodbye to language. Did you ever see goodbye the language? I have not. Uh, uh, then I won't talk about it because like, I'll probably sound stupid, but, uh, it was, it was a visual, it was sort of sold as this, like, visual spectacle, right? Yeah. Um, Tommy Lee Jones is the Homesman, of course, starring, uh, oh, wait, what's Hillary Swank's character in that? It's like, it's like, like Mary B. Cuddy. We need to do an episode on the Hormsmen.

Yeah. Force Mjeure screens in that festival at In Certain Regard. It follows. Played Critics Week. Critics Week is another sort of satellite festival similar to director's Fortnite. And then so Pride ends up winning the queer palm. So the queer palm explains sort of again, like the queer palm sort of is any film that screens it can in any capacity as eligible for this.

Yeah, so it can be any of these satellite festivals. It could be main competition. It could be movies out of competition. I am not sure how these movies are eligible or selected for it. Like, for example, this year, I think there's not, I think there's only maybe two movies in the main competition that are eligible for the Queer Palm. I don't know if they submit to the Queer Palm organization themselves. or if they're selected.

John Camer Mitchell, I believe, is the head of the queer palm jury this year. So the 2014 queer palm jury was headed by Bruce LaBruce, who is a sort of famously, how would we describe Bruce LeBruce as? A queeruteur, provocateur. Bruce is someone lately who I realize I've never seen a Bruce LeBruce movie. I think I've seen like one maybe, but yeah. But like famously sort of. of, again, provocateur is a good, is it a very sort of, like, sexually frank and explicitly titillating in a way that, like, you know, it feels very artistic and very...

I bring up this, like, I don't know how they select these movies for the Queer Palm lineup, and this year, the lineup is smaller, so presumably it is closer, but the year that Pride wins... There were 13 eligible films the year that Pride won, and there were a handful of ones. Including whiplash. That's the one I put it in our outline with like a bunch of question marks. I guess I remember at the time that there were articles and sort of think pieces that were like, is J.K. Simmons' character in this movie queer? And there are like, you know, things that maybe point to it and his sort of, you know, this kind of is this. macho bravado sort of... I mean, the movie's about

maleness and, you know... Right. And so there are ways to read that movie, but, like, it's surprising to me than a movie that depends on such an extra-textual reading of the movie to qualify as queer. And I remember, and, like, at the time there were people who were like, I'm not sure

why Whiplash is in this... Well, and, I mean, sometimes it can just be you have a queer filmmaker making something that's maybe not explicitly queer. Which is Mommy, and that, like, I don't think Mommy has any, like, I don't think that character is explicitly queer. That character could be

red as gay, but, like, Mommy, you're right. But, like, it's, right, it's a similar thing. But it's Javier Dilan is gay. And also, um, Celine Chiamas'amah's girlhood. I don't remember anything queer about that. I've still never seen. Girlhood's, like, at the top of the, like, movies

I need to see. Uh, I didn't see it, the Beckman. Good movie, great performance. Um, Yeah. Also eligible that year, St. Laurent was the Bertrand Bonnello movie. Bertrand Bonnello is another filmmaker who's got George McCoy in an upcoming movie, by the way. Melanie Laurent's Breave was eligible that year. But so, Pride wins, which I think is pretty interesting because you would imagine that even in, you know, not like the palm door, not like official competition, You would imagine that maybe a film like Pride would be seen as a little mainstreamy. Do you know what I mean? A little...

Yeah, and it's a, you know, it's a crowd-pleaser. Yeah, it's a crowd-pleaser. You know, not necessarily... Not to say that it's not artful, but it's not an artistic statement. It's a not-an-art movie, right, yeah, yeah. And that's not the type of thing you would think would be awarded there. And yet, I do think, you know, it's a... good call because

yeah you do see these like interconnected queer experiences and queer venues of thought and uh you know yeah i don't even though we spend a lot of the time of this movie again with the finger quotes allies or even with you know the enemies you know the one woman in the welsh town who is against them who has like the quintessential homophobic haircut.

Yes. It's true. Yeah, very severe. The only Welsh actress, the only Welsh performer among the main cast of this film, which I think is interesting. But the other thing

about Pride as a queer palm winner is its director, Matthew Warkas, is very, very much a theater director. And while... Since only made the Netflix Matilda movie.

Right. And before that had only made that movie Sympatico that I never saw from 99, which was based, which was an adaptation of a Sam Shepard play and it starred Nick Nolte and Sharon Stone and Jeff Bridges and was about horse racing or like people who bred horses for horse racing or something like that. Like I said, I never saw it. But like is a hugely prolific and celebrated. theater director, seven-time Tony Award nominee. He won for directing God of Carnage. He was nominated for Art, True West, a revival of True West, a revival of Boeing, Boeing, a revival of the Norman Conquests. And then most recently, the Matilda musical on stage, and Groundhog Day,

was nominated for directing Groundhog Day. So, like, a hugely, you know, he works, like, Matthew Morgas, like, works. And while there are theater directors who have done film in a way that allows them to be celebrated ateurs, like Nichols and Sam Mendez and, you know, Stephen Daldry. But I think a lot of times these people who work primarily in theater don't always get that kind of of like ushered into the club of auteur filmmakers. And so again, it's a little surprising that

Pride would get a Cannes prize for a movie that doesn't feel like it's part of the sort of like autore community. I mean, can and even and directors Fortnite as well have embraced

the British film industry and this type of movie before and like this is I mean I think this is a good you know entry into it's there's a world okay is there a world in which

a movie like pride and I'm not talking about now specifically about Cam but now I'm talking about like the American film awards industry is there a universe where a movie like pride could have become a Billy Elliott Full Monty

type crossover hit and awards nominee or do Billy Elliott and the Full Monty having those very hooky elements like a cute kid or a slubby old men stripping like did pride need to have a hook like that to have a chance at being that kind of a crossover I mean it does have a hook like that it's you know, gay activism. But is that good enough, like, for the lack of a better term? Does that draw in straight people and, you know, the septuagenarians that show up to art houses? This is not a movie that I think would turn off.

Like, I think, like, my parents would love a movie, like, Pride, you know what I mean? Like, my parents who watch... Right, I wouldn't put VPM in front of my mother, but I would put this movie in front of her. My parents who, like, watch, like, midsummer murders and, like, all of the, like, nice little like PBS shows about like doctors in small towns and whatnot would fucking love this movie I think what would be your palm winner from this lineup I want to ask that question before you're fine that's interesting I always love looking back and being like what's my palm winner of this lineup because I try to see as much as I can from honestly as somebody

who didn't love clouds of Sills maria the first time and like I like it better now having watched it a couple more times since then. I think my palm winner is Mr. Turner. Mr. Turner's a good movie. I really, really loved Mr. Turner. Not to be like anglophile about it at Cannes of all, you know, ghost things to be. Mr. Turner was the movie that people were like, it's two and a half hours long, that it feels five hours long.

I loved Mr. Turner. I loved Timbuktu. I never saw Winter Sleep. I never saw Winter Sleep is the other one. Winter Sleep is not a bad. Palm winner. I think my palm winner is... Again, if you're going to title a A four-hour movie Winter Sleep, it's a, it's, you're asking for it a little bit, man. Part of it takes place in the winter. I think my winner would be, and I know some people might eye roll this,

but it would be Alicia Warwalkers, the Wonders. I never saw that one either. Because I know some people are just like, that movie's fine, but... What was that movie about? Talk about that movie, because I've never seen it. It's a family of sisters who are on on their farm, and they are living rurally, and then a film production basically descends next to their property, and, you know, there's some magical realism to it a little bit. You know, Roe Walker also had that in Happy As Lazaro,

Lazaro for Leche. Maybe I'll just, like, go on in Aliche Roar Walker, kick this summer. My dude, I've been begging you to watch Happy as Lasrow. it's tremendous. I, again, I've got so many movies on my list, man. Yeah, I mean, Wonders isn't as good as that movie, but, like, I do ultimately think it's my favorite movie in this lineup.

She also has a movie in competition at Cannes that has not screened yet. It screens very late in the festival. Screaming on the last day. La Chimera. But I'm optimistic about that, both because she's had films in competition before, but also she had my favorite of the live action shorts at the other. Oscars this year, which, uh, Le Pupile, which was so fun and, and, uh, just lively. And you don't always get that in the live action shorts. It's a sweeter movie. Like, there's a sweetness to that movie that maybe is not

entirely there in her features, but okay. I think her world, like the way that she like creates a world on screen is very much present in Le Pupu. I'm now looking at the 2014 can lineup, and all I want to do is go down the line and say them like Monica Balucci and just be like I goyen. She did say a lot of them. Asayas. Fellini, Benuel, Scorsese, Coppola, Tornator, Custorica, Lynch, Vender. Well, Loach is definitely one of them.

Goda. Goda. Loach. Cronenberg. It's so fucking criminal. and all that she did not, she's not been able to say Cronenberg.

They should not only because I want to hear her say Crono. There are multiple people. Sorentino. My wen. Remember how at one point Billy Crystal doing the musical parodies at the beginning of the Oscars

became like required. That it stopped becoming like a fun thing and more became like, no, you got to do it. That's what Cannes should do with Monica Balucci is before every festival, just park her on that center stage and just have her read the list of filmmakers by surname who are in competition at that year's can.

And that kicks up. That's like the Olympic torchlighting, but for can. Like, that's how every can should begin. Hazanibisius. Kawaze. He can start this. It's all I want. I apologize.

It's all I want. Wonkar-Y. She's so good. I've got a I'll have to click that Okay Okay

What gets your Balucci palm For best pronunciation Of every name That she says in there It's Loach Loach is the best one Loach is so funny

It's because she pauses before it too So she like She gives it a lot of space And then she just goes Loach It's so good Um

All right Anyway Any thoughts on Matthew Warkas At all Did you ever see any of those of his productions. Again, he's directed quite a few. I definitely saw God of Carnage, which we talked about in our Carnage episode. It's been so long since I've been in New York, but yes, I also saw God of Carnage. Yeah, I never saw the Norman Conquest. That was when I was just

moving to the city, so I missed that. But that was apparently a very big deal at the Tony's that year. All right. So, okay, I know that Pride played Tiff. Did you see it at that Tiff? No. So this is what I want to talk about is the concept of festival regret, which is a movie that you end up seeing later on after the festivals. You see it in theaters, whatever, and you love it so much. And you're just like, oh, my God, I wish I had seen this at the festival that I was at. So this was- Sometimes you need the space around the movie, though, that a festival does not give you. Sometimes that's true, but sometimes, like, there is something magical about seeing it in that sort of, like, rarefied air and seeing it, you know, without expectation. Audience, that's so enthusiastic to be there. So, no, I didn't. Again, I was not as plugged into the Cannes Film Festival that year, so I didn't really, I probably hadn't heard about Pride until after TIF, which is, like, a failing on my part. I should have been more plugged in to a film that like Pride, but I wasn't.

But also, 2014 was my first year at Toronto where I was not on a critics pass. I had to just buy public tickets. It makes you locked into your schedule in a way. It locks you into your schedule. And I just didn't see as many movies just in general as I would have in subsequent festivals. But also, like, my first year at TIF was a learning experience in terms of, being able to ferret out, which are the movies worth seeing? Like, I saw a lot in that first year at TIF that I was like,

why, ultimately, I was like, why did I see that movie? Why did I see black and white, the Kevin Costner, Octavia Spencer movie about adoption and racism? Why did I see the Mia Vasikowska, Madam Bovary? Why did I see the riot boys? You know what I mean? Like, these movies that ended up, I was like the only person I knew who saw these. movies. And I think you get better. Why did I see both the humbling and the mangler at, I was going

to say, this whole festival, this concept of festival regret, I have it more for things that I did see than things that I didn't see. I, you learn, you learn, I think I've, as the years have gone on, I've gotten better and better at knowing which movies to see, which movies to wait on, and which movies to sort of wait and hear if people, that's the thing is on when you're on a press pass, you're more able to wait and see what people are saying and then maybe catch a later screening although this past year

they didn't have as many multiple screenings so you had to be a little bit more ahead of the ball. I'll also say, and not just because I'll be spending less time at the festival this year. I'm more embracing. I don't have to see everything,

especially now. It's like if I can, if I'm covering it professionally, it's one thing. But like, I don't have to see everything there because I found increasingly so. Last year was bad that it's like if I saw it at the festival I'm less inclined to go see it again at the theater and I'm just going to the theater less

and I hate that. Okay. So. Yeah. Well, I can see that. I'm happy to save some things to see at home. Sure. You also though see a lot more I think you manage to see a lot more smaller, more out-of-the-way movies at Toronto, certainly that I do. I think I tend to try and skim.

I am so impatient. I, to do the thing where it's like, well, this movie's opening in a month, and it's like, can I hold my horses enough to wait an extra month to see this movie that I'm dying to see because I know it'll be like in wide release and I won't need to like,

and I'm so impatient that, like, I'm terrible. that. Some of that is also just how the schedule works out. I think we were both initially fine to see the Woman King, which opened during the festival, back at home, and it just was wide open on our schedule. Well, and people were so enthusiastic about it that I was like, well, I just want to see it. I think for me, seeing some of those smaller things, like, I mean, you're not in New York City anymore, but like, for me, it's always been, well, there's going to be significantly less opportunity for me to see some of those things. Yeah, I'm going to have to make decisions like that this year, for sure.

Yeah. So anyway, it plays, you know what's funny is I gave you the 60 second plot description without reading the boilerplate. That's so funny. Oh, I never... That can't be the first time we've ever done. Well, you probably did that because we spent so much time talking the cast up front. Yeah.

Oh, well. I also think we might have forgotten to do that with. the Celina episode. We are out of practice. The main miniseries... No, I do it with the Selena episode. Okay, okay, good. I should say it that now. We're talking about Pride, directed by Matthew Warkas, and written by Stephen Beresford.

I do want to read the cast, though, because, like... Yeah, read the cast. Get all those names out there. Starring George Mackay Bench-Netzer, Patty Considine, Imel de Staun, Andrew Scott, Dominic West, Bill Nye, Faye, Faye, Faye, Joseph Gilgan, Jessica Gunning, Freddy Fox, and Fernandez, Jesse Cave, Lisa Palfrey, and Russell Tovey as the Harbinger of Doom and AIDS. But this is why I remembered it because, like, it premiered at Cannes in May of 2014. It premiered at TIF in September, and that it opened limited release in the United States on September 26th, 2014. And I remember it getting...

Not the best weekend for an awards contender. Well, it sure didn't make very much money. It barely made a million and a half. It didn't even make a million and a half at the domestic box office. But I remember, at least in, like, New York and among, like, our circle of, like, you know, gay folk who like movies, there was a word of mouth that circulated around it for at least a couple weeks, which is when I saw it. I saw it in theaters back in New York City. And it was enough of a discovery for me that I remember, like, I got very evangelical about this movie. And I was just, like, anybody who was willing to listen, I said.

It never played on more than 124 screens during its release, so it was like a very, very small release. And yet, it was well-liked enough on this side of the pond to get a Golden Globe nomination for Best Picture, Musical, or Comedy. And then in the UK, it got a good deal more attention. It was the winner at the British Independent Film Awards. and it got three BAFTA nominations, including Emelda Staunton for supporting actress. That is definitely a nomination that is, like, about the performer and not necessarily the performance. Not to say that she's bad, but, like, I could make, I would probably name six or seven other performances that I think I prefer in this movie. Here's what I will also say, though.

Talking about how my parents would love this movie, my parents would love this movie and the very first person they would talk to me. Isabel Distan. They would love the shit out of her character in this movie. The other thing about, I think, the U.S. reception and box office, this was distributed by CBS films, which had a short, not un-like, it's not a few movies. They had a good amount of movies, but, like, they never really had big hit movies, even movies like Last Vegas that are like, we know what that is and it's a punchline for us. But, like, you know, they famously struggled with Inside Lewin Davis not getting a good box office run for that movie. And then, like, kind of all of their movies just don't really do all that well. Yeah. And eventually they, you know, end up doing partnerships with other distribution outlets and such, like Lionsgate famously.

So it's like, you can imagine a way. world where a focus has this movie or a searchlight has this movie, and it does much, much better in the States. Yeah, I agree. Of the BAFTA nominations that it gets, it wins outstanding debut by a British writer, director, or producer, Matthew Orcas is British. He took over as artistic director of the Old Vic after Kevin Spacey, sort of, uh, infamously, of all the things

that Kevin Spacey did, I think his stewardship of the Old Vic was probably the least controversial, but Matthew Arcus does take over in I think like 2015, 2016, something like that at the Old Vic. What wins the outstanding debut by a British

writer-director-producer, like I said, Amel Dostanton, nominated for supporting actress, loses to Patricia Arquette on her route to winning the Oscar. That's an interesting category. Arquette, Stone for Birdman and Kira Knightley are the Oscar crossovers, and then instead of Meryl for Into the Woods and who else, Laura Dern for Wild, you get Amel de Staunton for Pride and René Russo for

Nightcrawler. One of the interesting things about BAFTA, and certainly in this era of BAFTA, is there are those there are those odd nominations that make you be like oh maybe this person has more of a chance at the Oscars than I think

and then there are those odd nominations where you're just like well it's because they're British you know what I mean and I think Imelda Stanton for Pride was probably one that people were like well of course

like we don't need to take that seriously which is too bad because Pride in general should have been taken more seriously by the Oscars but that Renee Russo nominating that's like, well, I think the nomination for BAFTA was open

right in that, like, two-week window that Renee Russo had some heat and people were discussing that performance. Makes you wonder how close she came to where she ended up finishing, maybe seventh on the Oscar ballot that year, behind Chastain. I mean the nominee of her screenplay, right?

Yes. I wouldn't be surprised if Renee Rousseau was closer than Jake Gyllenhaal was. I think Jake Gyllenhaal was plausibly sixth, then I think Jessica Chastain was probably your sixth place for most violent year in supporting actors for the year. Definitely, but, I mean, I don't know. I think if, like, Laura Dern surprises and gets in for wild,

that clearly shows some flexibility in that category. Yeah, that makes sense. That makes sense. That might sound like sacrilege to people now, but listen, that year, Laura Dern was quite the surprise for that moment. Oh, like, I remember I yelled when that nomination got announced, in my little living room watching that. I was so happy.

Because it was one of those things, but it was like, it was a long shot. And it was one of the, it was the long shot that I was hoping for, but it was a long shot. Pride's also nominated at the Baptist for Best British film. It loses to The Theory of Everything. Other nominees were the imitation game, 71, the other Jack O'Connell movie. He was in Startup and then 71, and it was like, how many movies about... This is the year of Unbroken. or was that the next year?

Unbroken, I think, is 16, right? Ooh. Hold on. I don't know. Under the Skins nominated for Best British Film and then Paddington. Paddington fans can rejoice. Hold on. Unbroken.

I'm voting for Under the Skin, personally. As an American... Oh, no, you're right. 2014 is Unbroken. I don't know why I thought it was 2016. Yeah, you're right. Yeah, that was the Jack O'Connell year. It was starred up at 71.

and unbroken. You're totally right. Can we talk about some bullshit? Yeah. Pride has no movies for grown-up nominees. I feel like that is a glaring omission. Talk about Best Intergenerational Story. Say it.

Say that. Say that exactly. Yeah. Yeah. That's what I have to say. Bill Nye should have been a supporting actor nominee at the M4G's. Bill Nye should have been a sporting actor nominee,

intergenerational story, absolutely. Best movie for grown-ups. Best Time Capsule. Best Time Capsule. Thank you. Yes. I'm going through my notes and

primary among them is what I will say is an event or a monthly party in a big major city called pits and perverts would do so well

in the context I think people would be confused about what type of pits that were being I don't think they would be confused at all I think that would be the intended meaning in 2023 I think that

I think the context would change but it would be quite popular I'm throwing pits listen all I'm saying is I'm throwing the pits and perverts party and retiring a wealthy wealthy, wealthy gay man is what I will do.

You know, the scene. Do you know how much people pay to go to these fucking warehouse parties these days? Like, I mean, girl. For a fucking, like, for literally the privilege of, like, just going into a warehouse and getting to do their little drugs and dance to their little music, I could make money hand over fist, Colin something that's in my words. I support their ability to do so, and they're having a-go off. I, however, for a party called pits and perverts, you know the scene.

in Silence of the Lambs when they're investigating the dead body and they take out the Vicks and rub it on their nose. That would be me at that party. It's not for me. I do not yuck any yums between consenting adults, but not for me. Oh, my God, that's so funny. Also, Steph early on in the movie, says to Bromley about one of the girls at the party, she broke my heart of the Smith's concert, which just feels like a perfect line of dialogue.

from a movie like that. This screenwriter, Stephen Beresford, write another movie, my dude. Like, this was so good. Like, I don't understand that, like, and, you know, maybe no one commissioned him to write anything after that,

but, like, I would love to see... He's done a lot of TV since then. And nothing super recently. So I don't know what's... He was, he was primarily an actor, which is the interesting thing. Sort of, he only has four writing credits to his name, one of which is he wrote the movie Tolkien. Terrible movie. Never saw.

Maybe that's what happened. Horrible movie. Not good. Maybe that's what happened then. Nicholas Holt movie Tolkien. What was the problem with Tolkien? it is generally snoozy and kind of dumb as far as a biopic is concerned absolutely none of the great things about pride are there so I will not blame him for that all right but anyway yeah primarily an actor but you know come write something else I don't know I think he wrote a play recently. He wrote a play

Three Kings recently, so maybe that's what he's been up to since Tolkien. Any other sort of like dribs and drabs, news and notes about pride that you want to throw in here? I mean, I feel like not enough people have watched it, but the people who have do love it. So if you haven't

seen the movie, if we have not preached at you enough about it, go watch it. Also, if I haven't been preachy enough, support your trans community, support a non-binary community. Right now,

shit is getting scary, and it's only getting scarier. Not just here in the States, but elsewhere. And happy pride season. Support your labor unions. At the GLAD Awards, Jill Kimbooster accepted an award for Fire Island and gave a fantastic speech.

Go check it out. I am so proud to be a member of the Writers Guild of America. and I can't thank them enough for giving me for creating a framework that made this movie not only just a hobby but life changing for me economically I hope that you all stand in solidarity with us as we move forward labor issues are queer issues corporate greed is homophobia pay us

they want to replace us with AI and I can tell you now definitively that AI does not have the trauma, the joy or the lived experience to create any of these stories that we are honoring tonight. That is the truth, y'all. And we're only getting out of this together. And that's sort of the message of a movie like Pride,

and I think it's incredibly applicable this June, this pride, and always. So check it out. Like I said, Paramount Plus, go watch it. All right. Chris, do you want to explain to the listeners? is what the IMDB game is. The IMDB game, which has been in short supply in the month of May

and we are very rusty and getting back into it. It's what we end all of our episodes with, where we challenge each other to guess the top four titles that IMDB says an actor or actress is most known for. If there are any titles or, if any of those titles are television, voice only performances

or non-acting credits, we'll mention that up front. After two wrong guesses, we get the remaining titles release years as a clue. If that's not enough, just becomes free for all of hints. Free for all. All right. Chris, would you like to give first or guess first?

Free for all of hints, pits, and perverts. Yes. I'll guess first. Why not? All right. Why not? You know, I'm being brave, this Pride. Good for you.

I'm very... So I'm going to exhibit bravery and guess first. I will fall on that sword. All right. So we talked about how Pride was a Golden Globe nominee for Best Picture, Comedy and Musical. It was nominated alongside Birdman and Into the Woods and St. Vincent's an interesting collection of nominees there, but they all lost

to Wes Anderson's The Grand Budapest Hotel in that movie's honestly often baffling and not in a pejorative way necessarily awards run. I still find myself just kind of amazed at the awards run that that movie went relative to Wes Anderson's other movies. Um, the star of that movie, who we've talked about very recently, because he was one of our 100 years 100 snubs choices, was Ray Fines, who we've never done an IMDB game on. So why don't you, sir, give me the known for for Ray Fines.

Well, uh, I mean, speaking of Harry Potter and not mentioning its demonic creator, um, I wonder if any of those are there. I'm going to guess Deathly Hallows part two. Deathly Hallis Part 2. Okay, good. I'm fine with that. English patient. No, not the English patient. Two strikes right off of the back.

Damn, I am striking out on Ray Fines. My bravery was not rewarded. All right, so your years are 1993, 2005, 2011, and 2014. 93 is Schindler's list. Yes. Give me those 2000s again. 2005, 2011, 2014. Is one of those skyfall?

No, that was 2012. Okay. Is O5 Goblet of Fire? No. Although I believe that was... No, Goblet... I don't know what your Goblet Fire is. But no, it's not.

Who cares? Well, okay, Grand Budapest. Grand Budapest Hotel is your 2014. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Did you say 11 or 12? 11. And 05.

So his tremendous work and a bigger splash is not on there. Correct. Perfect summer movie. People go watch that too. True. Yes. Okay. So these are also not those...

Is he even in those Kingsman movies? I think he's in one of them at least, right? Oh, 05 is Constant Gardner. It is the... Constant Gardner. You're very right. The last movie I saw before going to college. Yeah, he's in the King's Man in 2021. Who cares?

Okay, so 12, which is... It's not 12, it's 11, 2011. Is it an Oscar movie? No. It's a movie we could do for this podcast. Okay, so, but it is like a, uh, some type of adjacent prestige or... Indeed. I'm guessing he's not first build.

He is first build. I would, I would be surprised if he wasn't. Oh. Oh, is it the Invisible Woman? No, that was an Oscar nominee for costumes. Oh, right, right, right, right, right. Yeah, he's definitely first built. Is it like the Invisible Woman?

Uh, no. Is it modern? It's a modern take. Okay. But it's not Shakespeare. It is Shakespeare. Is it Coriolanus? It's Coriolanus.

What the fuck? He directed it. Like, you know, that helps. Is he credited as director? No, he's credited as, as, well, hold on a second, I clicked over to look at the movie. No, he's credited as his lead

role, Caius, Marcius, Coriolanus. Okay. Yeah, yeah. But he did also direct. Saw that movie in the theater. I saw it on a screener, I'm pretty sure. When in my early days, I think that's when I was still like bumming screeners off of Katie.

But yes, I saw that one on the screen. Do not out her as sharing screeners. Oh, whatever. Whatever. Come delete this. Come at us. Protect this woman.

Whatever. Okay. Yes. Clearly done by me. All right. What do you have? I'm guessing you are going to do better than I did. I was actually going into other cinematic representations of the Miner's Strike.

One that we have mentioned is the motion picture, Billy Elliott, and I chose for you. It's star Jamie Bell. Oh, baby boy. Not a baby boy anymore. Okay, Jamie Bell. Listen, 40 is 40's baby. 40's the new 40.

40's the new 40 is depressing. 40's the new baby. I'll take a t-shirt that says 40 is the new baby. I will too in a rapidly approaching amount of time. Billy Elliott, I got to imagine. I mean, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. I mean, it's going to be a bummer that this is one of them,

but I'm going to guess the awful Fantastic Four. Correct. Yeah. Okay. Congrats on remembering that he is in that movie. Yeah, on Forch. Did you see the, like, days worth of rumors that Milakunis was going to be the thing in the new Fantastic Four? I only saw, like, one tweet about that, and it seemed so ridiculous that I was like,

I'm not taking this song. Well, she ended up speaking out and being like, no, that's not me. But, like, it was, if, I wish it had been true because that is so, like, bonkers that it would have actually made me go see that movie. Yeah. But, anyway. All right. What other Jamie Bell things?

Hi, me, though. Um, is it Jamie Bell who's in Tintin? the Adventures of Tintin? He is in Tintin. That's my guess. Incorrect. Jumper? Jumper.

Okay. All right. Doug Lyman, right, is Jumper. That's the movie where Samuel L. Jackson has that, like, Lil Nossack's silver spray-painted hair thing. I don't think I ever saw a jumper, because that is not ringing a bell. Eh, it's fine. Um, all right, one more for Jamie Baby Bell.

They should call them Baby Bell, like the little cheeses that you get on the Amtrak. It's the only time I've ever had Baby Bell is on the Amtrak. It's part of their little cheese and crackers box. And then I fiddle around with the little wax rind for the rest of the trip. I'm like a child with Play-Doh. I'm like my nephew with Play-Doh or whatever. Just being like, clown-nose. Okay. Do you also feed the wax to Elmo?

I don't, but I should Okay One more movie, you only have one wrong guess I know, it's not going to be like film stars don't die in Liverpool Although I guess that's what I'll use if I need to burn a guess Um Why can't I think of like Sort of undertow?

Incorrect He's so good in that movie Remember when David Gordon Green made good movies The year is 2013 That is not the U.S. release date Is 2014? I believe it's 2015 Oh, a long-delayed movie

Just in America For like a reason that would explain it? For reasons that would piss you off, but yeah Is it like a Weinstein sat on it for two years? One million percent. Oh, God. Weinstein sat on it and fucked with it. Is it Grace of Monaco?

No. Much better movie. Much better. Okay. Is it a movie that I like? I would be surprised if you didn't like this movie. Okay. It's not a perfect movie, but I'd be surprised if you didn't like it.

It ended up being there was, it was somewhat of a critical rallying point. I believe got a... It might have even been a SAG nominee, but I believe... Definitely BAFTA and Critics' Choice nominee. In like an acting category? Yes. For him?

No. Okay. There are a lot of people in this movie. I am not surprised you maybe don't remember him in this movie. Yeah, I think that's probably going to be the problem. A director who would later have their moment. Oh. Like, a winner moment?

Yes. Is it Guillermo Deltora? No. Is it, um, well, Quaron had won by then. Uh, it wouldn't be a Chloe Zhao. Um, I'm trying to, like, go through, like, the directors who, like, had the moment in subsequent years. Um, I would argue. Oh, it's Snowpiercer.

it's snowpiercer i did forget that he's in snowpiercer yeah yeah yeah yeah good i've been wanting to rewatch snow piercer we could like obviously in 2019 we did we you know went nuts for bong junho and his next movie comes out is it next year or is it not even until like 2025 oh no i think it's next year it's the one i think it's next year what is it something with a zero in it um mickey 17 Mickey 17 that's what it is And Mickey 17 sounds like it's going to have Snowpiercer vibes. Mickey 17, I think you think it's so far in the future because, like, it was announced as a 20-24 movie, like, in 2022. Like, it's one of those things where, like, they weren't even pretending. I think it filmed in, like, 2021.

It was one of those things where, like, they weren't even pretending that it was going to try. Sometimes these things will say TBA 2023, even when they know that they're not going to be ready until the next year. But, yeah. There's going to be some wild. visual effects things coming in that movie I feel like for it to have that long of a post-production. Also, the cast is beyond delicious. Patensen

and Stephen Young and Tony Colette and Mark Ruffalo and Naomi Aki it's like, uh, give it to me now, give it to me right now. Um, all right. Good movie, good IMDB games. Good time had by all. Lesbians and

gay support the minors. Support the miners. Uh, all right. That's our episode. If you want more ThisHad Oscar Buzz, you can check out the Tumblr at this hadoscorbuzz.com. You should also follow our Twitter account at Had underscore Oscar underscore Buzz and our Instagram at This Had Oscar Buzz. Chris, where can the listeners find more of you? You can find me on Twitter and Letterbox at Chris Fee File. That's F-E-I-L.

I'm on Twitter and Letterbox at Joe Reed, Reed spelled R-E-I-D. We would like to thank Kyle Cummings for his fantastic. artwork and Dave Gonzalez and Gavin Mavius for their technical guidance. Please remember to like and rate and review us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Google Play, Stitcher, wherever else you get podcasts. A five-star review in particular really helps us out with Apple Podcasts visibility. So before you head out to that Perverts and Pits Party, write us up something nice. Thank you.

That's all for this week, but we hope you'll be back next week for more buzz. Can I just get the perverts? Shame on you, girl. It's a bad that's true. I'm such a shame, change, change, change. Yeah. The perverts, but not the pits, though. The perverts, but not the pits, sounds like a, like, a bathroom book of, like, sayings.

Or a sex pistols album. Who are that? It's like Irma Bombach, though. It's like, uh, life's a bowl of cherries. and I got the pits, like that kind of a thing, but it's like gay anecdotes is what it is. Oh, boy. Happy bride.