This Had Oscar Buzz - 243 – Wonderstruck

Episode Date: June 19, 2023

We’re talking about one of our favorite filmmakers this episode and for one of his most mildly received movies. In 2017, two years after the critical success of Carol, Todd Haynes returned with a pivot to young adult literature with Wonderstruck. Based on the book by Brian Selznick, the film follows two deaf children across decades … Continue reading "243 – Wonderstruck"

Uh-oh, wrong house. No, the right house. I didn't get that! We want to talk to Marilyn Hacks. I'm from Canada. I'm from Canada water. Why run away? This.

It's from my dad. It's where I found a bookmark. Why did my father have this book? Mountain Joe's a major... Hello, Hello, and welcome to the This Had Oscar Buzz podcast, the only podcast that knows exactly what we'd say if we ever came face-to-face with Margaret fucking Thatcher. Every week on This Had Oscar Buzz, we'll be talking about a different movie that once upon a time had lofty Academy Award aspirations, but for some reason or another, it all went wrong. The Oscar hopes died

and we are here to perform the autopsy. I'm your host, Joe Reed. I'm here as always with my space oddity. Chris File. Hello, Chris. Commencing Countdown Engines on. We are here to talk about Todd Haynes today. We are here to talk about Todd Haynes. Somebody who is no stranger to throwing a little Bowie

into his movies either spiritually or literally. So, this is kind of the Todd Haynes soup movie because it feels like it has pieces and elements of every single one of his movies, even down to his shorts. Like, I think the, like, diorama stuff with the little dolls feels vaguely, you know, Karen

Carpenter Story. Which is funny because it's probably his least authorial movie in terms of, like, this is the movie that seems like it most belongs to the writer, because it's, is based on Brian Selsnick's novel and also adapted for the screen by Brian Selsnick. And I can't off the top of my head think of which other Todd, obviously Carol, but even like Carol is... Very, very not anonymous, though. Oh, not an anonymous. No, I wouldn't say anonymous, but I would say, like, if I were to put the balance of Wonderstruck to writer or director, it's the most that a Haynes movie.

moves maybe a little bit to a little bit on the other side of that needle, where even Carol, which is, you know, obviously the Patricia Highsmith source material, still feels like very, very much a Todd Haynes movie and a Todd Haynes sort of conception. Whereas, and there's also Mildred Pierce, too. Mildred Pierce is another good example. But I think with something like Wonderstruck and maybe part of it, is that I think it's his least, one of his least successful movies, if not his least successful movie, which is not to say that I don't like it, but there is, we'll, we'll get into my sort of

a jumble of thoughts on Wonderstruck, but I do feel like it's, it's an interesting marriage, you know what I mean? It's a sometimes wrangling kind of a marriage. of Haynes and Selznick. I mean, I think one of the interesting things about it seems stupid to call it like late Haynes, but where we are now, his most

recent filmographies are not movies that necessarily, even if, you know, Wonderstruck was something that maybe that he pursued, but because it has this giant beast of a young adult novel source material, which,

which was very heavy on it would be starting to, which is the other thing. Like, it's, it's, you know, so there was certainly at least a lot of, you know, visual stuff already present in the project when he took it. But anyway, continue your thought. Well, but the, his recent filmography, including which we'll talk, you know, around somewhat, uh, in December, which we're recording this before, the can. Like moments before the Cannes Award Ceremony, kind of. Like, as soon as we're done recording, they'll probably start the ceremony. Listen, the rumors that are happening around while... Talk to me about rumors.

You're so much better plugged in than I am on this kind of stuff. I just follow a range of people. The word going on around now is that this movie is not getting any prizes, even though it was one of the best-received movies at the best place. It was. There's always some movie that is, like, kind of universally well-received that just doesn't land with the job. jury. And I'd kind of had a hunch after, you know, reading the responses to the movie, which were all very positive, but that it wouldn't show up with the jury. So we'll see what happens because, like, it's supposed to be somewhat of a comedy or, like, a satire. I heard the words

camp a lot, which always makes me nervous in terms of, like, oh, like, A, the discourse around what is camp is one of my least favorite discourses, because it's a bunch of, of brain dead gay guys trying to sound smart. Well, did you see the quote that Haynes already came out with? I think it was Kyle Buchanan that asked him the question about everybody's calling this movie Camp. What do you have to say about that? He's like, yeah, that's not a word we ever used on set.

And I feel like that's a word, that's like, I forget his exact wording, but he basically called Camp a bucket term to mean a lot of different things. He kind of dismissed it. Yeah. God, no disrespect to Susan Sontag, but like, uh, Get that term away from my movies right now. Todd Haynes, Susan Sontag movie. Well, 100% would watch.

Thank you. You're welcome. Todd, I will accept my check in the mail. You can also Venmo me. So, I'll loop back to the Cannes stuff. Yes. But to complete the thought on what I'm saying is... This is why we're talking about this movie right now. It's because we wanted to time it to this May-December buzz that Haynes would be having at Cannes.

Portman brought that movie to Todd Haynes. much like, if I'm remembering correctly, Mark Ruffalo brought Dark Waters to Todd Haynes as well. Sure. And, you know, I mean, this is a source material. It just feels like, you know, even something like Wonderstruck and, I mean, I would argue Dark Waters,

they have the level of Todd Haynes bespokeness and attention to genre in that he's always, commenting on the genre while also giving an earnest example of whatever that genre is. Dark Waters is, you know, the legal humanitarian thriller.

Right. You know. Todd Brockovich. Is the you know, movie of the week illness movie. Which makes me all the more excited to be like is May December, like Todd's version of like the Amy Fisher

trio of movies we got in like the 90s? It sounds like it's his version of a soap opera. Oh, I love it. Obviously. Like soap opera type of thing, which is why I'm like, you know what? You know what I need in this world, truly? I'll just say this on Mike. I don't even care. I need Joe Reed to interview Julianne more specifically about her experience working on soaps. You know what is I would, obviously. As the world turns is one of the few soaps that I never actually watched, even when I was at soap net. You can't confess this on Mike. I am getting you. No. Well, I am a good, I'm a good journalist.

I would definitely, there are ways to talk about the soap opera genre without having watched it. No, guiding light and as the world turns were the two soaps that by the time they were canceled, I never, I was never a CBS soaps person. But by working at SoapNet, I managed to like, um, sort of wander my way into the young and the restless and the bold and the beautiful a little bit. But I was at first an NBC soaps person through my grandmother. That was days of our lives in another world. And then through my other grandparents got into the ABC Soaps, which were General Hospital, One Life to Live, All My Children. And then that was all like in my youth. And then I got the job at SoapNet, and I sort of, you know, was keeping tabs on all the different ones.

Which is all to say that if Todd Haynes ends up doing a soap opera, pastiche is the wrong word for what Haynes does, but a soap opera inspired aesthetic. Ooh, who, ho, ho, ho, ho, I'd be excited. Yeah. Anyway, it just went over very, very well at Cannes. I was worried in advance. It was scheduled to start at like 11 o'clock at night. after the Scorsese movie

and I was like, oh shit, are they buried? That day though, the day that the Killers of the Flower Moon reviews started to trickle out, followed by the May-December reviews, I was just through the roof, over the moon, excited about both of these

movies getting such, not only good reviews, but reviews that made me think I was going to really love them. And then on top of that, the Killers of the Flower moon trailer comes out. which is I am, I love Martin Scorsese. I am not always like an automatic easy lay for Scorsese.

You're annoyed by Scorsese fans. You can say it. I often am, yes. But I don't always let that. I try not to let that get in the way. And I do feel like I do have a sense of like certain ones I like better than others. And I also feel like even the ones that I like, the trailers, you know, sometimes are just sort of like, you know, trailers.

This trailer fucking knocked my socks off. It looks so fucking good. And I am beside myself with excitement waiting for Killers of the Flower Moon. Lily Gladstone. I know, girl. Let's go. I'm so ready. I'm so excited.

I am excited for everything about Killers of the Flower Moon. I'm glad that you are here to be primarily excited for Lily Gladstone. Wouldn't it be wild if you were super excited for a Scorsese movie? And I was like, the full reversal. Wouldn't shock me. Sometimes our sign and cosine curves sort of operate on that level. May December, picked up by Netflix, coming out at the end of the year, I have concerns. About the Netflix of it all.

Here's what I will say to try all all all lay your concerns. It's good that, you know, everybody is going to be able to have. have, you know, access to a Todd Haynes movie at home. Carol apparently has done very, very well when it's been on Netflix. Doesn't surprise me. Here's the thing about Netflix that I will probably try in allay your concerns a little bit. Yes, they are the streamer that is most actively hostile to giving their films a proper theatrical run, whereas, like, Apple seems to be content to actually let their movies play in theaters for a little bit. They're big ones, at least.

Tragedy of Macbeth, for example. But for as much as movies get buried on Netflix, they always have a handful of awards contenders that don't. And this will surely be among that handful, right? Your marriage stories, your Irishman's, your Roma's, your Manx, you know what I mean? Like that kind of thing. I don't feel like May December is just going to, disappear into the chasm. I think it's going to be one of their big, along with, you know, maestro and whatever

else they have. I think it's going to be in their portfolio of big award season movies to push. I have some skepticism there. And like, you know, Todd Haynes movies, as we're about to discuss, are very delicate things. They are. They need very confident hands guiding them to the public. I'm, yes. I don't. And, you know, it's, it's been a while. since one has been handled well, I mean, you would probably argue, God, what even was, I mean, maybe I'm not there was better handled than even Carol was. I think, I'm of two minds on Carol, because yes, Carol did get the picture and director snub. It did get six Academy Award nominations. You know what I mean? Like, this was not a movie, like, and it was a thing. It was a presence in that year's award season. So Carol, for as much as we wanted more for it, I think Carol was handled well. I think Carol was presented as a major film accomplishment of that year,

and I think it was seen as such, whether it came up short among Oscar voters and probably just short, probably just on the outskirts of those two top categories. But I agree with you that there is a challenge to Todd Haynes movies in terms of marketing. And, like, I'm not even just talking about awards, because at this point, like, you know,

Todd Haynes has his, you know, status of the type of filmmaker he is, and he has several films that are, like, imprinted on film culture. I still want to see him on a stage with a trophy. He deserves it.

True. He deserves it. But I also don't, I don't want his movies to just float into the ether. And we're about to talk. about one that floated into the ether, though got a cooler reception than this movie did. This is also a Cannes premiere movie.

But you look at what studio was Dark Waters? Focus. So Focus is a studio that does do well by indie movies, and that's still a movie that, like, got disappeared. So, like, it's not always a guarantee. We'll talk about that movie eventually, but that, I think that's a very, very specific case. That's a movie that was ushered into being by. ruffalo and sure but i'm just saying that like it's it's i think just based on the studio of it isn't necessarily the be all and end all this is fair this is fair not to be a netflix simp like

i truly am not but like you know what i mean i try and be as even handed as i can be um about this kind of stuff um i love todd haines i've said before here's the other thing about me December. Before we get off the topic of May December. Not only am I excited for that, but the fact that the reviews coming out specifically put Natalie Portman at the top of that, like, have me very excited. Because like, it is no surprise to me that Julianne Moore would be wonderful in a Todd Haynes movie. We've seen it before. It's her fifth collaboration with Haynes after, say, far from heaven. I'm not. there, and Wonderstruck, which we'll be talking about soon, as soon as I let us stop talking about May December. But the marriage of Natalie Portman and Todd Haynes was very intriguing to me, and the fact that she's getting the top-of-the-line best reviews for that movie, have me very excited. We know she can do highly stylized.

Jackie sort of proved that to all of us. I love to hear that she's doing another voice. And also, Julianne is doing a voice because Julianne loves doing a voice when she's with Todd. I just watched Safe last night. And I was like, hmm, there's something about this performance. I believe I text you this, that I would call Portmanesque. That is like, she's doing a voice. And I mean, like, I don't want to reduce that safe performance.

We'll talk a little bit about safe. I'm sure. Safe, a performance that I'm shocked, did not show up on your 100 years, 100 snubs, by the way. It was very, very close. I didn't have Julianne anywhere. I know. It is a shocker. For that.

I know. I'm going to be doing post-mortem on 100 years, 100 snubs for a while. I'm going to be doing a lot of, like, it's fascinating that we didn't come up with such and such. I do have an idea for next May that I want to talk to you about. Oh, I'm excited to hear it. All right. Because one of the things about 100 years, 100 snubs was that people don't know, that is the thing that I pitched to you in, like, June of last year, where I was like, let's keep an eye on this. Let's keep this in our thoughts and try and see how we can develop this idea.

So, like, that was an idea that was like a year in the making. Right. Yeah. Right, right, right, right. Anyway, continue. Yeah, I think that, yeah, I am excited for. the Portman performance, it is absolutely unshocking that Natalie Portman gives any performance in a Todd Haynes movie, and straight-mail critics are calling the movie camp.

Your war on straight-mail critics is also my favorite ongoing. Listen, we're talking about Todd Haynes. Yes, I will talk about my war. I forget who it was, but I was reading a review for May December, and one of them used the word chili. I was like, okay, this is, this is aesthetically personally triggering to me. Fight and words. I'm done reading your review, sir. The Carol, the Carol scars are still fresh in terms of chilly. Yes.

The Wonderstruck scars are still fresh. I feel like dark waters, I don't, I want to try to avoid talking about that movie. Listen, waters are chilly. We'll have an episode for that. Especially waters in northern states and like the wintertime. Like those waters get chilly. That's not Todd Haynes's fault. that's that's that's weather fucking idiot um i i really love wonderstruck i oh this is fun this

will be a fun conversation i mean the man's never made a bad movie no he just needs to be said he has never made a bad movie he hasn't made a movie that isn't mostly successful like in terms of like what it's doing what it's attempting to do and I mean, you can't really say that about many people. Certainly not many people who've made as many movies and as wide ranging of movies as he has. I think people, while we're largely net positive on this movie, I think people were somewhat unfair to it. I do think that there are some things that snag in the movie. Yeah.

I like this movie sounds like less than you do. I wrestle with this movie. I struggle with this movie. I think, and watching it again this time was an exercise in me sort of being like what is about it. And we'll get to it in a little bit more specifically, especially about the ending on the other side of the plot description. But I think just in general terms, I think something about Wonderstruck is a thing that I love about Haynes, which is his ambition, right? His movies have big ideas, big concepts in terms of visual language and the genre he's working in and the style he's working in. Velvet Goldmine is my favorite of the Haynes movies, as I think I mentioned in the miniseries.

That's the Haynes I'm most in need of a rewatch for. That and Mildred Pierce. And Velvet Goldmine is a movie with a big visual concept, a big. sort of concept in general. He has a really like, you know, large idea of the kind of movie he wants that to be far from heaven is the same thing. Obviously, that's a very determined language

that he's working in in that movie. Safe. I would say as well, I'm not there. Certainly. Like, that's a concept-y movie in general. The thing about Wonderstruck is, it's a concepty movie in that he has

these two different timelines. and one of them is in black and white and is entirely silent. And the other one is set in the 70s and is partially, has like long stretches that are totally silent. And it all comes together by the end. But I think there is something about his ambition for this movie that doesn't quite fully click on the level that, like, once I see, what he's trying to do, my expectations go up, up, up, up, up, because I'm like, there is potential in this for me to be really swept away by this whole thing. And I'm ultimately not as much. And again, we'll talk about the ending on the other side of the plot description,

but I think just in general, there is, I think the shortfall for this movie hits me a little bit more because my expectations, with it being Haynes, with it being, I mean, I'm usually, I'm, I'm, I'm kind of a sucker for this kind of like, you know, little kid sleeping in a museum kind of a thing. We'll talk about that trope, too. But like, and I think the, by the end of it, I'm like, well, what, why, why am I not as, you know, swept up in this whole thing as I feel like I could be? So I think part of that is, you know, you're playing the expectations game, which isn't entirely. on the fault of the film, but I do think there are certain things that don't quite click as cleanly or as impactfully as they could. And we'll talk about that in more specifics once we do the plot description. Which we'd probably just do right now, considering we're well past the 20-minute mark. I will set up my timer, but first, I'm not going to forget it this time, as I did last time.

Hold on, let me... Where's my timer? There we go. watch. Okay. We're talking about Wonderstruck, 2017's Wonderstruck, directed by Todd Haynes, written by Brian Selsnick, based on his novel of the same name, starring Oaks Fegley, Julianne Moore, Michelle Williams, Millicent Simmons, and introducing Melissa and Simmons. I love an

introducing credit. Jaden Michael, Tom Noonan, Corey Michael Smith, James Urbaniac, Amy Hargraves, premiered at the Cannes Film Festival on May 18th, 2017. It then played the fall festivals at Telluride and New York, and then it opened in limited release on October 20th, 2017. Chris, I have my stopwatch. Are you ready for the 60-second plot description for Wonderstruck? Sure am. And go.

All right, so we're following two parallel stories across 50 years. One is said in the late 20s, follows Rose, a young deaf girl who we see her at the cinema, falling in love with this movie star and then she runs off to the city and she meets up with that movie star turns out that it's her mother who has semi-abandoned her. Meanwhile in the parallel story, Ben runs off to New York City himself after his mother has died in search of his father who he has never met and he has had an accident and he also has had hearing loss at this point and he is trying to get through the city. He runs to a museum with this, a other boy Jamie, whose father is some type of curator there. They spent some time at the museum. Meanwhile, back in the parallel city, we are in the parallel story, we see that Rose eventually moves him with her brother. And then it turns out that Ben is actual, Ben goes to a bookstore where he meets the old Rose, who turns out is his grandmother. And his father has since passed away. But it's a story of reconciliation. And parallel lives lived across families.

Ten seconds over. Very good. We find out at the end of this movie that Julianne Moore, as the grown-up rose, recounts seeing young Ben and his mother at her son's memorial service when Ben was too young to really remember at the history museum. And then all these years later, she meets him again in the city. So in a very real way, Ben is back in New York City in this movie And I fucking hate you I am sitting here Marinating in the final themes of this movie

Feeling the tears Welling up in my eyes And you The menace Of my life Take a sledgehammer To do it's back He's back

Yeah so Ben is back back in the city, baby. Yeah, back in the big city. So there are a couple things, there are a few things that made me think of different pop culture illusions. One of which was Ben showing up in the city and getting his wallet snatched as he's off of the bus. And all it made me think of is that Simpson's episode where Homer remembers going to New York

City. And it's this very, like, exaggerated 70s thing where he gets like mugged by a, pimp and that's when the chutz came after me. So I thought of that I also thought of and I texted you this before we recorded today young

Rose's journey to the city to meet this actress who turns out to be her mother very very much is to me the glamorous life from a little night music the version of the song from the movie

that Audrey McDonald's sing at the Sondheim birthday concert, a video that I watch constantly, because it's so fucking good. Marin Maisie's losing my mind, may she rest. The whole thing, the whole,

everybody's performance is great, but Audra's in particular tremendous on that song. So that's what that made me think of. And then, I also thought of, again, as I mentioned before, this idea of like, kids' fascinations

with museums, and especially natural history museums, because, like, that's where the dinosaur bones are. That's where the, you know, the woolly mammoths are and the dioramas of, like, you know, the caveman times and whatnot. And this, like, very childlike fantasy of, oh, everybody's gone. They closed the museum. Now we can, like, stay here all night, which he and his friend do. And I'm like, that's a trope that is like, that's what's the children's book, the mixed up files of, Oh, I wrote it down. The mixed-up files of Mrs. Basil E. Frankweller, like, did you ever read that one as a kid?

I don't think so. I never did, but it was, like, super popular. But, like, that's the plot of that movie. And, like, I think that's what's being alluded to in the Royal Tenement Moms when they talk about, they all go. Isn't that the one where they're, like, they flash back to when they were kids and they all camped down in the museum? And Eli ran away from home and stayed in the museum. Yes. So I'm like, that seems like, and that's sort of, again, kind of the universe that Haynes is working in in this, this kind of child's fantasy of New York.

It's a little New York lonely boy, too, you know what I mean? Where like Ben is kind of a, is kind of a, would be a great New York lonely boy. And maybe that's what his, you know, if he, you imagine by the end of this movie that like, oh, he'll like go and live with his grandmother and his great uncle and be. raised in a bookstore, which is a... And everything will be fine. Honestly, but it has that kind of fairy tale conclusion to it, right? Where it's just like, you know, these, he's found these,

not that his relatives back home weren't, you know, kind, his aunt seems to be very, you know, concerned with him and whatnot. Everybody has that shitty cousin. We all have a shitty cousin. He's like reading Outdoor Life magazine. But the other cousin, yeah, but the other cousin, the girl cousin is nice to him. And, uh, his auntie has,

Like, you smoke? Yeah, like, who doesn't... He mistakes her for his mother. Who doesn't love an older girl cousin who smokes? Yeah. But anyway, there's that sort of that fairy tale aspect of, oh, he's going to, like, you know, he's going to live in New York City. And he's going to, you know, again, just... Get to be gay.

Live upstairs in a bookstore. Because Ben is definitely queer coded in this movie, as I think somewhat just... Jamie is maybe as well because they have this whole connection of like well I don't really have friends who like what I like and I mean when you see Ben's cousin

having like an outdoorsy magazine it's like okay we it's at the very least again we've talked about movies that are you know soft boycoded and this was I don't know why I had this thought recently but

talking about Sean Mendez and how we sort of, who, like, constantly is talking about in his, like, songs or in, like, the press or whatever, this idea of, like, different ways to, you know, be a man in this world, like, different ways to, I don't know, there's this, like, defense of the soft boy, essentially, through, like, Sam it, or Sean Mendez's, uh, music in press and whatever. And I just had this thought of, like, we spend all of this time talking about toxic. masculinity and we hate it and like it's such a scourge and it's so bad for the world and then like the second somebody is like yeah like I agree with that I don't think that men should be like this toxic we should find other ways to be you know to be men in this world and we immediately are just like he's gay like you know what I mean like gay and which and again me too this missed me Sean Mendez, it's a thing that brings up my Twink face blindness, name blindness, sound blind, you know,

deafness, I guess. I can't tell any of them apart by their face, their name, the art they produce in the world, their music, it all is in a suit. You do love to shame me for my twink affinities by telling me that you don't, you don't recognize twinks in this world. So, yes. Couldn't be me. It couldn't be me.

Anyway. Wonderstruck. Wonderstruck, but yeah, soft boy cinema. At the very least, boys can talk about their feelings without us necessarily being like welcome to the club, F-sler. But it also, you know, the possibilities are there. The possibilities are certainly there, yes. also brave young girl cinema oh yeah

rose venturing to the city on her own and feeling liberated by the side of a skyline entirely relatable oh totally that's the thing is that that that's sort of that fantasy of the kid emerging from she travels from Hoboken so I guess they both walk out of Port Authority

that that's the but this idea of of in very different times, these kids sort of like walking out on 8th Avenue in the big city. And he gets his wallet snatched. And she runs into a helpful person who points her the way of Broadway, essentially. And it's like, the theater is just down that way, a little girl. We don't hear him say that, but that's what I imagine he sounds like. And yes, she goes to the theater and it is this actress who she's, we think she's just a fan of this actress, but she is her mother, and she's played by Julianne Moore.

And that whole section of the movie is in black and white and silent. And so, okay, I want to hear you as somebody who loves this movie. My struggle with the movie is, A, I think the Rose storyline is done by the middle of the movie, essentially. I mean, yes, this is part of the problem, because the third act of this movie, you feel, even though Rose is involved, but because it's a different actor playing Rose at a different point of her life, this is one of the things that, like, yes,

this is a snag for the movie, especially because you're talking about a deaf character who's performed by a deaf actor early in the movie too. You want her to be connected to that part of the film as well. The resolution, the reconciliation, the emotional impact of the movie

comes at, at a different timeline, you know, so there's, oh, I mean, I don't think that the movie fully abandons it because the emotional impact is her relationship with her brother and her connection with her brother when she moves in with him. And you do get that nice, long extended scene where they're like fighting with a sleeping bag or something. And yes, it's really lovely. It's her with Cory Michael Smith, who's a really interesting Todd Haynes actor. He's going to be a May December as well. Yeah. Yes. He's somebody who I only really know, and I didn't watch Gotham, the Fox television show about what's his name from

the OCA playing Jim Gordon. But I remember there being talk of, isn't it interesting, that the two main villains on Gotham are played by queer performers, that the guy who played Penguin and the guy who played Ridler, Corey Michael Smith played Ridler, were both queer actors. So that's basically the be all and end all of me knowing who Corey Michael Smith. You're saying the point of Gotham is Be Gay-Doo Crime. Yes, 100%. That's what's what's... Great, great, I should have been called.

Yeah. Be gay, do crimes, leather daddy, as in Batman is the Leather Daddy, because he's in a leather suit. I would have liked more of Wonderstruck to have been about that brother-sister relationship. I know you mentioned there is an extended scene. But I think if the Rose...

The balance is not great. If the Rose 1920 story is able to last the length of the film and by the end of the movie that story and Ben's story sort of braided themselves into a connection and then also

give us a little bit more because also we get that scene of Julianne Moore and Tom Noon as the adult Rose and Walter, I believe is his name, in the bookstore and like that's a really interesting and kind of lovely dynamic that they have. She's

living in the city she's lived in the city we imagine ever since she came there as a child she gets we see her sort of like moving through the city so she like she's an independent person but also she depends on her brother for certain things that she you know uh can't necessarily do so they sort of very much the dynamic academic academic older brother much cooler younger sister she's if are you are you picturing this woman in scarves because you're absolutely correct. You know what I mean? Like, yes, absolutely 100%. Um, and he just seems like a very kind man. Queer-coded. Is kindness queer-coded? Kind of? No, I don't think he's queer-coded. Oh, so he's not queer-coded, but Ben is queer-coded. Are you saying gay people are kind?

What's wrong? That's what I'm asking you. You're literally saying that gay people like to have, want to have friends. Like, that's not the same thing as being kind. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Okay. All right. Okay. Are you kidding? Some of me and my gay friends are so mean to each other. Are you kidding? Well, I could also see Tom Noon's character going home and being like, you're super mean right now because you're not understanding what I'm saying. No, I understand what you're saying. I'm giving you shit.

Anyway, but what I'm saying is... Yes. There is an issue with, you know, it somewhat makes the, you know, silent film aesthetic. of Rose's portion of the story feel more like a curio because there isn't as much emotional payoff there, whereas the emotional payoff, which is still Rose's story, is in the very, very different aesthetic of Ben's story. Yes.

But at the same time, though, it does feel like when we get the reveal of the story, we get the what connects the two of them and why there's so much power to the parallelness of their stories it feels like well Rose is basically taking the reins of that

and we get as much of what it means emotionally to Ben as what it means for Rose yes for them to connect and I think that's right that whole the whole reveal of the story while it is somewhat projected and maybe predictable, and maybe that's why it's not as powerful to some people. I just, I find it very moving.

The idea of shared pain through generations and finding reconciliation in the future, through future generations and connection between the two. And we can move on. Oh, Chris, you're getting emotional. I love that. No, I will, I want to talk about how my, my struggles with the ending. First, I do want to say, apologies to anybody listening for, if you're picking up the lawnmower sound that is probably in the background of mine, I will say now that I'm back living in a more, it's not quite a, I don't live in the suburbs, but it's like, neighborhoody enough that like weekends in the summertime there is just a wall-to-wall soundtrack of lawnmowers like cascading around me at all times so i mean i should have told you

this ahead of recording but that's not a lawnmower i actually sent carter berwell to your house to have a constant underscore for this entire episode thank you um but so okay so the ending of this movie which i am very much of two minds on because until I look at the end of this movie, and I feel like, was there no better way to arrive at the emotional climax of this movie than a child reading a series of notes on a notepad? You know what I mean? That, like, just dramatically, that feels underwhelming and not what I would expect of Todd Haynes. For as much as the writing is very lovely. It feels very adapted from a book.

It does. And I hear you on that. I appreciate because everything else in the movie is so stylized, and even that sequence somewhat is, they're standing literally in the middle of a diorama of New York City, which is so gorgeous. I appreciate the narrative simplicity of it. I get that. The other thing for me, though, is the other side of the coin for me is I end up really loving. that scene emotionally. Whereas, like, it gets me. And I love the sort of catharsis of these two

characters finally coming together. And so I am very much of two minds. I think intellectually, I feel like this feels like a deflating way to present this information. But the other part of me is like, but the information, you know what I mean? Like, but it's so, you know, and I, by the end, I'm really glad that these two characters have found each other. So I struggle with that because by the end of the movie, that's kind of my favorite part of the movie in my heart. You know what I mean? Like that's the part of the movie where it finally,

the expectation, when I talk about the expectations game of this movie, that's the only part of the movie where my expectations are met on an emotional level. And yet my expectations on a intellectual level are pretty disappointed by that. So that's sort of my push-pull that I have with Wonderstruck. I mean, I understand all of that. I'm also of the mind that the weakest portion of this movie is that middle portion where it's basically just like Ben and Jamie

spending a lot of time in this museum. And then you also flash back to seeing Rose in the museum. She sees the young girls who are all. all friends and having a conversation and obviously, you know, we feel that she wants to be able to have that type of connection. And I think those moments all have such potential to be really good because I like the concept of it, right? Again, like kids in the museum, like kids sort of reaching out and, you know, across their communication divides and this whole kind of thing to become friends. And by the end, you kind of do need to feel that bond that Ben has with,

What's Jaden Michael's character's name in this? It's... Jamie. Because Jamie's the one who, like, comes by the end to, like, you know, he finds them by the end in the middle of his blackout. But I agree with you that the movie kind of sags during that portion of the movie. And I wish it wouldn't because, conceptually, I really want to be swept up in that story, their story. Yeah. The story arc, it feels like, you know, you kind of fall off a little bit of a cliff, though.

It's like you're falling off a cliff with Todd Haynes, so it's never less than watchable. But, yeah, like, you can see the version of this movie that's maybe 15 minutes shorter that, you know, has a very clear narrative, like, through line that is much more impactful. I want to talk about the kids for a second. Oaks Feigley is in this movie the year after he's Pete in Pete's Dragon, a movie I think we both really like David Lowry's Pete's Dragon. And I think he's really good. Have you watched David Lowry's Peter Pan movie yet? I haven't.

Have you? I was a little disappointed. I mean, you know, I was disappointed because I like David Lowry. And I really liked David Lowry's Pete's Dragon movie that I'd hoped that maybe this Disney Plus original would be a good one. And it doesn't sound like. I have seen neither what's his name, Ben Zitland's

the Peter Pan movie nor David Lowry's Terribleman movie. But I wonder if maybe I should just like watch them both back to back and just sort of like, but if I do, I will never be able to differentiate them in my head in terms of like, you know what I mean? Like they will be one little mess. I bet you probably could. No, but I bet you probably would end up confusing them for each other more than I should. Yeah. You'll be able to tell them.

But at some point, like, isn't a Peter Pan story, just a Peter Pan story. But anyway, he's in that, and then a couple years after Wonderstruck, he's the young Ansel Elgort in the Goldfinch. And then pandemic year, he's in the, I believe it was a number one box office movie for like several weeks, the war with grandpa, because it was the pandemic and like nothing. Oh, he's in that. He's the kid. He's the one who's having a war with grandpa in that movie. Right. It's the movie that was released that month in that.

pandemic so it spent it was the movie of that month yes um and then and now uh fableman's bully which i made it through that entire movie without realizing that that's who that was and by the end of that movie i was like oakshugly like what are you kidding me like um i was i was so surprised um how do you how do you like him in wonderstock because i was reading a lot of the reviews of it a lot of people more so than you would think would be comfortable with being Like, I think this kid is a problem. We're kind of like, I didn't really like Oak Speggley in this movie. I think he's fine.

I think Millison Simmons is the more interesting. Well, talk about her in a second, but talk about, talk about Youngericks. So, like, I think there is somewhat of an imbalance there. I mean, I, you don't really think of Todd Haynes as someone who's directed children. So, like, maybe that's one of the things about this movie. That's like, you know, maybe that's just not his. thing also in Pete's Dragon he doesn't like talk

much in that movie right because he's a kid who's raised in the wilderness I forget that part of it I just remember sobbing in that movie sure I mean he's a kid who finds a dragon much like I sob in Wonderstruck I want to see what he has coming up whether he's

in anything major coming up because he's got a couple movies in production right now but nothing that seems too major unless you think that him's co-starring with David Dukovny is major at this point. And his brother, is his brother the one from Lail L'A L'A Krocadile. He is the one from Lyle L'A L'A Krocadale. His brother Winslow Fegley is the kid from Lyle L'A Krocodial,

a movie that has one good song that they play four times, and it's a really good song is what I will say about. The Brother's Feigley. Yes, the Brothers Feigley. That should be their upcoming movie. I think he has a harder, a harder road to ho in this movie in terms of likability. I think he's, you know, he's, I mean, she's rebellious too, I guess,

but she's rebellious in such of this highly stylized way that she, I mean, Millison Simmons. I think Oaks has to be that scene where he gets really mad at Jamie for not telling him right away about the bookstore. You kind of hate Ben in that scene. And you need to be able to put yourself in his shoes and all he wants to do is to find his dad because his mother is dead and now he can't hear

and all of this kind of stuff. You do kind of support him though because it's like, yeah, you could have just gone to the bookstore. and saved us 20 minutes of this movie. But Jamie wanted to have a magical night in the museum. Okay, maybe he has queer with his new boyfriend. All right, all right, fine. But so, okay, so Millicent Simmons is sort of the discovery of this movie.

Todd Haynes wanted to cast a deaf performer in this role. He went on this sort of, like, nationwide casting call for this performer finds Millicent Simmons. She's in this movie. I remember in the run-up to this movie sort of like doing that dumb thing where a year ahead of time you're like who are going to be the like the big surprise Oscar nominees

and I remember being like watch out for this Millicent Simmons who is you know a young deaf performer and a Todd Haynes motion basically yeah and obviously that didn't work out that way but it sure worked out for Millicent Simmons

who ends up getting... I was going to say it kind of did she got a franchise after this movie the thing about and the first a quiet place she's obviously a huge focus because she's not only is she, you know, the deaf character in that movie, but she emotionally is bearing the brunt of the guilt for her brother getting eaten by the big fast monster thing. A Quiet Place Part 2, which a lot of people didn't really like very much, and I did. I thought she and

who's baby boy who we love Oh teeny tiny Jupe Juba Noah Jupe Angel Child Noah Jupe She and Noah Jupe are both so good So, so good performance wise Are tremendous But especially in the second one I think They both put in a lot of really, really good work

Two of the best child performances I'd seen in a while were in that movie I would say that's one of the good things about the second one is that, you know, they really, it feels like they get the weight of the story. Do I feel like that is what was promised by the end of the first movie? Right. No. First movie ends kind of perfectly, and I was mad just in general that we were even getting a second movie because I loved the way the first one ended. But if we were going to have to get a second one, I was at least glad that those two performances got to exist.

I thought that was so good. The second is just so frustrating because the end of the movie writes a check that the second one is like, well, we're not going to cash that. Who cares? It's not like it can't. It's that it chooses not to. And I also felt like the ending of it was just not satisfying. I don't know if I need a whole universe of movies about this story. We're going to get one because we're going to get another one, I think, at some point.

We're getting prequels. No, I think, yes. I think that to me is all. irksome, but I will just say I ended up really enjoying that movie. Anyway, she is in an upcoming movie that is in pre-production. She's also on Broadway right now. Which is a ballerina thriller, which sounds fun with Lena Hetty and Yara Shahidi and Lana Condor. That sounds pretty cool. So that's neat. Yeah. So Millicent Simmons in Wonderstruck. I there's something about that section of the movie I guess I just want more of it or I want it to be more of a feel like more of a complete story I think once we find out that Julianne Moore is her mother there really isn't much more to the story they have that argument and that's kind of it I get what you're saying with like the scene with the brother but that just feels like epilogue to me by then.

and really only there to set up the brother being in the later part. But, like, the scene where she's off the bus and sort of, like, in the streets of New York and trying to find her way around, she's incredibly expressive. Any moment where she's, like, watching a movie, like, her face is just very, very communicative, and I think she's really good. she also dodges the brady child thing in the way that I don't think the movie fully dodges with Ben even though it's like I don't know you can't it Ben's not doing anything wrong but it feels he still feels like bratty in a way well I think she is sort of inherently more sympathetic her father's very domineering James Urbaniac plays her father and he's very domineering and her mother is we find out you know uh basically abandoning her right right so i think there's just more inherent sympathy for her whereas like um and i also feel like the more modern

you put the context the more you sort of place the kid as like you know yourself or somebody you know and it's just like oh god like i was probably a nightmare when i was a bratty kid you know what i mean Like, you sort of, there's a little bit of that, that reduced sympathy there. I can also see how maybe the artifice of, you know, that section of the movie is in black and white. It is kind of Haynes's version of reflecting on silent cinema. I can see how a lot of the artifice of that would feel somewhat repetitive. Sure. One of the reviews I read, by the way...

Oh, go ahead, finish your thought. I was going to say, I do think it's interesting the way that he threads that I haven't really seen threaded in a movie before, this idea of as the talkies came out, because we see Rose in a movie theater watching who we eventually learn is her mother in a movie, and she's so engaged, she's so enraptured with the cinema. And then as she leaves, she sees these banners for like all sound stereo, blah, blah, blah, blah, wave of the future, blah, blah, blah. And it's not shown in movies in a way that we've seen. Like, you know, it's almost like an ominous bad thing. And you realize that Rose is actually about to be shut out by an art form that she was able to appreciate. So you're saying that Rose in this movie is Team Babylon, is what you're saying. I mean, I would argue the opposite, you know, like Babylon is like, well, I mean,

Babylon's about how sound ruined the movies. Yeah, Babylon is all things, all people. Yeah. As much as it's like, look at this awful buck and all. It's also saying, isn't it fun to watch people? Isn't it fun to have a Bacchanal? Yeah. Yes.

Also in the black and white section, very briefly, but I wanted to mention is Lauren Ridloff, who is a deaf actress who's on The Walking Dead. She was in Eternals. She plays Pearl, the maid, and is very, very briefly in it. But I was like, hey, look, it's Lauren Ridloff. That note, though, of, you know, Rose being essentially shut out. would have been shut out in a way by this art form. It comes very early in that, and we don't,

it feels like that should be more of the thrust of the story, because then we get the stuff with the mom, and then we don't get the emotional reconciliation of it until her brother after that. I also feel like there's a way, and like, I'm not going to tell Todd Haynes how to make a movie. Like, I'm not that much. Right, right.

But, like, I do feel like there is maybe a way, to have the Julianne Moore, as her mother reveal, come maybe later and kind of braid that into and then have her seen with her brother, and she finds that one person in the city who is going to accommodate her and, you know, be family to her in the city. You could braid that maybe closer in the narrative to Ben and Old Rose finding each other. You know what I mean? Like maybe that's a little too neat. But as it is, like this movie ends too neatly, I think, with the note.

Or with the not the notepad. So I don't know. Again, not telling Todd Haynes out of make a movie. I am not that much of an asshole. But anyway, I did want to mention very quickly about the black and white. I read in one of the reviews of this movie that the particular film stock that he used for that section is so rare by this point

that he had to like special request it from Kodak which is... That's what you get when you have Amazon money. Yeah, I guess that's right. So was this an Amazon production from the Git then? This was a roadside attractions movie. Well, this is when they were partnering with other distribution houses.

This is not a... We talked about it before. Was this an Amazon movie? when it was at Can. Slate. I'm I mean, I feel pretty sure that it was, but maybe I'm wrong.

But yeah, I mean, I would maybe assume considering how bespoke this movie feels, especially with this, like, specialized film stock. Because, you know, the other thing about Todd Haynes is he's had struggles, you know, making

movies, even though he comes out with a movie every few years. It feels like some of those are made as quickly as possible, like they've said, for May-December like happened with Dark Waters. Very famously, he had the Peggy Lee biopic with

Michelle Williams follow up. Right. That was in the works for a long time. She was outright being like, we can't get money. He struggles to get money. Pardon me. Michelle Williams was very upfront saying

you know, Todd Haynes struggles for funding for his movies. To answer my own question, by the way, it does look like Amazon made the deal with Haynes in 2016. So, you know. This was, we've talked about this a lot, so we don't really need to belabor this point,

but this was one of Amazon's movies in 2017, where there, we've talked about it before, they were coming off of the big breakthrough success with Manchester by the Sea. They beat Netflix to the punch of getting major awards with the Best Actor Win for Casey Affleck. And then they walk into 2017

with some big projects, right? They have the new, what you call it? They have the new Todd Haynes movie in Wonderstruck. They have the new Richard Linkletter movie in Last Flag Flying. They have the new Woody Allen movie in Wonderweil. They have Brad's status.

They have landline, which at that point was Jillian Robespierre's follow-up to Obvious Child. I almost said only child, obvious child. And then they had some stuff from previous festivals that was going to come out, Law City of Zed, and The Big Sick, even down to, like, that Doug Lyman movie. And they bought the Big Sick. That Doug Lyman movie, The Wall, that I had to watch because I had to watch all the big streaming releases when I was at my old job. But, like, that's just, I mean, we, again, joke about movies that don't exist, but, like, that movie didn't exist at all.

All of this atmosphere of disappointment slash failure on Amazon stock, partly because they had all of the spotlight, or not spotlight, but they had all of the gala spots of the New York Film Festival because they had last flag flying. Wonderstruck and WonderWil, WonderWil, which they ended up even canceling the whole red carpet side of it because... That was the... Oh, remember all the stuff that we know about Woody Allen, it is suddenly pertinent again now that Me Too is in the headlines. Maybe we shouldn't have made that programming choice. I don't know.

Also, WonderWil is fucking terrible. But anyway, so again, we don't need to belabor that point, but it is definitely wrapped up the wonderstruck disappointment on awards season is wrapped up

in this sort of overall terribly disappointing deflating year for Amazon Studios because it really did feel like another case of maybe we shouldn't

have been so eager to predict a Todd Haynes movie to do well with awards and everybody is reflecting like well maybe we shouldn't But again, Brian Selsnick, the author of the source book, also wrote the invention of Hugo Cabray, which was then turned into, so like there was, you know, turned into Hugo by Martin Scorsese. So there was definitely, at least there was, there was a not unjustified sense that this is a Todd Haynes movie that is maybe going to be more accessible to a broader swath of awards voters than even.

in something like Carol. And it's a little heartening, I guess, that Carol ends up being the more Oscar-friendly just because it is more, I don't know. It's a more straightforward movie. You can tell somebody that it is a romance and they can at least

appreciate the movie, even if the movie is not for them. And it's also, like, by critical acclaim that movie sort of, like, got pushed into award season. Like, critics were basically like, this is the movie. Wonderstruck is a hard. harder movie to condense, and I think, or to like explain to somebody, sell somebody on what it is. Yeah. I mean, some of that is why I forgive. It's shortcomings because I do think it's coming at things in an

interesting way. It is about cinema, but not in the way that Hugo is. And Hugo is so direct about that. That's right. This is a movie about engaging with the art form as. Hugo is to cinema as Wonderstruck is to museums. So you can see why it's It's a little bit of a harder sell. Well, I mean, like, and maybe it's a little silly to be like Todd Haynes is a genre filmmaker as much like all of his movies are in a genre, but also commenting on that genre. And Wonderstruck is like, the genre is silent movies, which is not a genre, but he is still, you know. It's more concept than genre. It's a mode of filmmaking that he is commenting on as he is adopting it. Can we talk about Carter Burwell right now, though?

The score in this movie. If we can talk about, you know, again, you wanted to post-mortem 100 years, 100 snubs. Like, I think the snub of this movie is Carter Burwell's score, which is so beautiful. Absolutely tremendous. Beautiful and, like, lively and evocative, and it, like, it serves every part of the movie that it's meant to, just in general Carter Burwell is a composer who has not been sufficiently honored

at this point now his first Oscar nomination was Carol was Carol which is crazy because so he comes up his all of his sort of major early accomplishments are with the Cohen brothers right he does the score for Fargo

but like all the nominations Fargo got and it didn't get a score nomination even though there were two score categories back that year is dumb I'm just going to say it It's fucking dumb. He does the score for, you know, Hudsucker proxy and Barton Fink

and Miller's Crossing, for God's sake. And then as the sort of 90s turn into the odds, he does the score for gods and monsters, and he does the score for, I think his first Todd Haynes score ends up being Velvet Goldmine, which is much more of a soundtrack movie than a score movie, but regardless, he's the composer for being

John Malkovich. He's the composer for Three Kings. A Knight's Tale, which is another song score movie, but whatever. Adaptation. So again, he's working with these big conceptioteurs, the Coen Brothers, Spike Jones, Todd Haynes.

He does the score for No Country for Old Men, Best Picture Winner, no Oscar nomination. He does the score for where the wild things are. My goodness. Again, another Spike this movie. And again, that's a movie where the music, the original music in there

is, you know, Karen O, obviously, has a lot of work in that. But anyway, so just a lot of major movies, kids are all right, is another Best Picture nominee he does the score for. Doesn't get a nomination until Carol. He has since gotten two more, one very

recently for, this past year for bands she's in a Sharon. And his second nomination was in 2017 the same year as Wonderstruck for three billboards outside Ebbing, Missouri. Now, that is a Best Picture nominee. So that one, you can at least see why.

But this is where I'm going to enter one of my regular complaints and grievances against the Oscars as of the last 10 or so years. They nominate the right composer for the wrong movie. Well, just in general. I am, as you know, a proponent of the top 10 best picture format. I know a lot of people wish they would go back to five. It wouldn't kill me if they went back to five, but I like the good that the top 10 does in terms of getting more movies, more attention.

And I like that. However, my major, major drawback for the top 10 era is it has drawn the crafts categories more towards, this central nucleus of just those best picture nominees, and it is getting less and less likely than a movie that is not a best picture nominee gets a craft nomination in kind of anything. And I think the fact that three billboards is your score nominee for Carter Burwell in 2017 and not something like Wonderstruck, even though just watch those two movies and tell me which is the one where the score is much, much more recognizable and prominent and utilized in a more

necessary way, it's obviously Wonderstruck. And I think 10 years prior even, or 15 years prior, a movie like Wonderstruck would have had more of a chance to get a score nomination, even though it would not have been a contender in your top categories.

Thoughts. Thoughts and opinions, Chris Files, as I fill a best thing. Well, I especially, I mean, I feel like this, I felt this along with you in the past recent years. I feel like more people are on board with this after last year where it feels like there's almost, there were so few craft nominations

and even, I guess, acting nominations that were not best picture nominees. And it just feels like they're watching fewer and fewer movies and it's very, very frustrating. I want to go through it because it's striking when you look at like, so original score last year the only non-best-picture nominee in that whole lineup is Babylon, which, like, forced its way into that category on a claim alone.

Production design, all five of those nominees were Best Picture nominees. Cinematography, the – that cinematography was the only one that kind of went its own way, in a way that kind of annoyed people, though, because it's Deacons for Empire of Light, and Darius Conji for Bartow, which I think is a very good nomination. I know you do, too. Great nomination. But, like, costume design, well, costume design had a couple other ones, because that was Mrs. Harris Goes to Paris. But anyway, obviously film editing is very, very closely tied to Best Picture.

And just in general, there were just very, very few movies that were able to penetrate those crafts categories in a way that they would have when, like, again, I talk all the time about the days were like the Black Dahlia could get a stray cinematography nomination or the village. These are movies that were generally seen as disappointments relative to their expectations. But it's not historically normal

for this many Best Picture nominees to get that many nominations as like happened last year. And that is my point. Screenplay categories too. Like there used to be a ton of really idiosyncrans screenplay nominations.

And last year, there was two. It was Glass Onion and Living were the only two screenplay nominees that were not also Best Picture nominees. And that's not really all that idiosyncratic, you know? Right. And I just, and again, what's the solution to this other than convincing Oscar voters to see more movies? You know what I mean?

I say it a lot when we talk about people's proposed fixes for the Oscars. You can't legislate taste. You can't force people to, you know, to like a broader swath of things. But it's, I think it's a two-headed horse. It's that they're watching fewer movies, but they're also just nominating the things that are sold to them to nominate and not nominating things like. the elections, the... Well, I also think it's... As we were just talking about screenplay, you know.

It's also, I think, on the studios that kind of earlier and earlier in the season, they're like, these are our contenders, these are not our contenders, and maybe at a moment where the industry, there's a lot of anxiety in the industry about the future, that maybe they're just like, we're not going to spend on anything more than, like, is absolutely necessary. Right. And that's a depressing thing. And yet, like, we still remember following Oscars where it's, you know, a Carter Burwell nomination for Wonderstruck would be conceivable up until the very end, you know, even though the movie isn't, doesn't have as much of a footprint in the race. Now, you know, Wonderstruck is dead by November.

Exactly. That's exactly right. So anyway, though, with this idea of longing for the days that you could get Kraft's nominations outside of the best. picture race. I have created our latest round of our game Alter Egos, which we haven't played in a while. Alter Egos is our game where I give Chris the names of three movie characters. He has to then

figure out who the actors who played those three characters were and what movie all three of those actors were in together. The theme of this round of alter egos is Best Original Score nominees that were not Best Picture nominees.

I don't go back any farther than the 90s. So everything is 90s till today. The greatest hits of the 90s, the 80s, and today. There's those few years of two score category. Yes. Right. But yes. So anyway, if this ends up going long, I might lop off some of the last ones.

I think I have 14 here. But anyway, we'll see how it goes. I think this will be fun. Any questions before we play our latest round of alter egos? No, let's do it. All right. Question number one. Queen Elizabeth I, Louis de Pontoulac, and Charlene Frazier.

Okay, so Elizabeth I'm either Kate Blanchett or Judy Dench. I'm going to guess it's Kate Blanchett. Nope. It's Judy Dench. Great. Is it Margot Robbie? Is this Babylon? It is Babylon.

Can you work out the other ones? Louis de Pont du Lac. That's Brad Pitt as... Louis. What? Interview with a vampire. Oh! And Charlene Frazier?

You know, I sometimes do television roles and not film roles. That is true. Oh, wait, hold on. Is it a young baby Frasier? No. It's Gene Smart from designing women. All right. Next one.

Christopher Robin. Ercu Poirot, who is Belgian and not French listeners. Okay, so listen. I obviously said it was a French stereotype because look at the performance. I stand by you and I made the same mistake. So listen, I'm calling myself out as much. He's not doing a Belgian stereotype. Anyway, let's keep moving.

Christopher Robin, Ercul Poirot, and Joan Crawford. Ewan McGregor, either Albert Finney or Kenneth Branagh. And what was the third one? Joan Crawford. That is Jessica Lang. This is Big Fish. It's Big Fish. Ewan McGregor, Albert Finney, as Urquil Poro in the original murder on the Orient Express.

And Joan Crawford, Jessica Lang from Feud, Benny versus Joan. Okay. Guido Contini, Titania, and Charlotte Flacks. Guido Contini is Daniel Day Lewis. Yes. Um, which narrows it down totally. Is this age of innocence? It is the age of innocence.

Can you work out the other two? Um, Titania. Titania is, is that, uh, Pfeiffer's name in Stardust? It's not Stardust, but you're on the right sort of, uh, uh, general track. What was it? It's a movie that we probably should do because I don't think it got any Oscar nominations. A Midsummer Night's Dream? Oh, midsummer.

Yeah. Oh my God. I'm an idiot. Thank you for just, like, making me show my ass on the Shakespeare. I would have as well. And then Charlotte Flacks is, of course, Winona Ryder and Mermaids, my beloved Mermaid. Yes. Okay.

Next one. Sabina Spielrein, Captain Hook, and John Lennon. Well, there's several Captain Hooks. Sabina and who? John Lennon. Oh. No. No, John Lennon is Aaron Taylor Johnson.

Correct. Aaron Taylor Johnson and a score nominee. It wasn't Nocturnal animals. Nope. Ugh. Maybe I can't remember what movies that dude is it. Captain Hook. It's a score winner.

Okay. Captain Hook. Oh, it's Anna Karenina. It's Anna Karenina. You want to take a stand of the other Jew? Because it is the Jude Lock. Captain Hook. And Sabina, is Sabina her character in Dangerous Method? Correct. Yes. Great movie. Yes. I thought you might be able to get it right away because you love that movie so much. But yes, anyway. Peter Parker, Mrs. Whatzitt, and Elizabeth Proctor.

Elizabeth Proctor is Joan Allen. This is Pleasantville. Yes, Joan Allen and the Crucible. Peter Parker, Toby McGuire. Mrs. What's it? is Reese Witherspoon in a wrinkle in time Correct, very good, very good Okay, Pleasantville, wonderful movie With all of our Pleasantville talk as of later

I really am going to be watching that again soon Like I feel a rewatch coming on It used to be on television all the time So I saw it a lot Next one, Margaret Schlegel Victor Nivorski And Artemis Fowl Sr.

These are all vaguely familiar names. Artemis Fowell Senior, obviously from Arndmus Fowl, which I never watched. That's why I put it in here. A brand of a movie that's supposed to be horrible. Do you even remember who was in it?

Judy Dench, because she plays like some type of bug lady. She does, but she's not Artemis Fowell Senior. Maybe she should have played everyone. Give me those first two names again? Margaret Schlegel. and Victor Nivorski

Victor Nivorski I know that that's It's not like Daniel Brule is it It's not Daniel Brul Although sounds plausibly yes Um

Victor Nivorski is a name native to a fictional country that as of the movie that as of the movie no longer exists huh as of the movie no longer exists as of the movie at somewhat is a plot point that that country is absorbed or destroyed

no longer a thing and that is why there is difficulty for Victor Nivorski when he tries to leave the airport that he's...

Oh! He's from Kikosha! Yes! It's the terminal. That's Tom Hanks. Yes. In a movie with an Artemis Fowl score nominee. Margaret Schlegel.

Is it a... Catherine Schlegel? No. Margaret Schlegel on a bagel. Is a character from a novel turned into a movie that was highly acclaimed in the early 90s. With Mr. Hanks. Oscar winning role. For a Margaret. Oh, that's Howard's End. Yes.

Excellent. I mean, like, one of the greats. Emma Thompson. Emma Thompson. Oh, saving Mr. Banks. Saving Mr. Banks. Emma Thompson, Tom Hanks. Who is Artemis Fowles, Sr.?

Colin Farrell. Colin Farrell, who's in the saving Mr. Banks, which I always forget that he's in saving Mr. Banks. All right. This one's going to make you mad, but I'm going to do it anyway. Joy Mangano, Peter Quill. Joe Mangano. Mangano.

I think it's Mangano, but anyway. Peter Quill and Tony Blair. uh tony blair is michael sheen i would have thought joy was jennifer lawrence but when is she with michael sheen well you are correct that it's jennifer lawrence and you are correct that it's michael sheen who's peter quill it's a superhero it's from your

it's from one of your genre of line spots yes um okay but jennifer lawrence in a score not picture nominated movie with Michael Sheen. Yes. Michael Sheen is definitely like a minor role, but he's probably

the third most prominent. This is pretty much... It's not a Hunger Games. It's not a Hunger Games. Those never got Oscar nominations. Um... How strange. So other than

the superhero movies that Jennifer Lawrence was in and the Oscar nominated movies Why am I blinking on her? What are the only other movies that she's in? Red Sparrow, Winter's Bone. Well, that's an Oscar nominee. Mother, the Burning Plain.

You're dancing around. I know, I know. It's got to be right there. Famous flop. Well, actually, I think it made more money than, but people did not like it. Yeah. It's not Serena, obviously.

We've talked about Serena. Nope, think later. I will say people hate the guy who played Peter Quill. Hate the actor? Yeah. Like in this performance? In general. Okay.

Especially in our corners. I'm sure this guy has plenty of fans. But he is not a well-liked Avenger. It's not offshed. Oh, this is Passengers. Passengers. Chris Pratt is Peter Quill in the Guardians of Galaxy movies. I thought that that movie's one nomination was like Art Direction.

Score. Is it a Thomas Newman score? I think it is a Thomas Newman score. Yeah, there you go. All right. Next one. Inspector Javert, Bruce Wayne, and D'Artagnan. Okay, Russell Crow, Gabriel Byrne is the D'Artagnan.

Huh? Russell Crow, Gabriel Byrne, Bruce Wayne. So that is probably Christian Bale, given the other two. Uh-huh. What random-ass movie is this? Wait, who did you say was D'Artagnan? Huh? Who did you say with Tartagnan?

Gabriel. Yeah, no. Oh, it's not Gabriel. It's not Gabriel. Sorry. But still, I should be able to get it from those first two actors, which this is definitely something that came out and no one cared.

No. I think people liked it. I liked it. Really? Yeah. Hmm. They're not giving voice performances, are they? Nope. Live action film. Is it Robin? No, it's not Robin Hood because you've given me Blanchet.

It's not a genre that you like. It's not really a genre I always like, but I liked this one. Okay. Is it like a cop thriller? What? Not a cop thriller. What's a genre you generally don't care for?

Superheroes. No, well, correct, but not in this case. Any more I don't like superheroes. There's a lot of superhero movies I love. Sure. I mean, I like action movies. Okay. Is it an action movie?

Well, yeah, but in a more specific genre. Is it like a car? movie? Oh, it, no, it's, that's not, that's, um, that's Matt Damon. I almost said Ford versus Ferrari, but that's also a best picture nominee. Hated that movie. Um, oh, it's a gun movie. Oh, it's 310 to Yuma. It's 310 to Yuma. Yes. Yes. Uh, D'Artagnan is Logan Lerman from the Paul W.S. Anderson Three Musketeers, which, fuck off. Um, I just want to remind you who played the Three Musketeers in this, because it is the recently deceased Ray Stevenson, RIP, was Porthos. Matthew McFagin, Tom Wamsgins himself, was Athos.

I'm listening, never mind. And Luke Evans was Aramis, all opposite to Miliovovich in this. And Orlando Bloom as the Duke of Buckingham. Interesting. And then, sweet baby Logan Lerman as D'Artagnan. We're recording this a day ahead of the succession finale. I really need Michael

Matthew McFadion to have like good projects after this because if he ends up doing like bad bureaucracy TV I know I know it's going to be awful

I know I agree with you I hope so too he's the one that I'm worried about from the cast of getting stuck in crap we'll see we'll see how it goes

but I do share I think he though I think he can go back he was in a lot of different genre type stuff. Talk about he was in Anna Karinana as well. He was in obviously Pride and Prejudice. Like there's a lot of other milieus he can

drift into. So, play a British role again, Matthew McFadgin. Anyway, next Play a naked role. Otto, Butch Cassidy, and James Bond. Okay.

Which one's Butch Cassidy? Which one's the Sundance? That is the question, isn't it? Butch Cassidy is Robert Redford. No, no, no, no, no, Paul Newman. I'm not going to confirm or deny because it's more fun to have you a guess for this one. What was the... Oh, no, this is Road to Perdition.

Why? Work it out. Show your work. Because Daniel Craig is the James Bond. Uh-huh. And which Cassidy is... And then who's Otto? Otto is... Please don't tell me it's Tom Hanks in, like, the Lady Killers. No. Where would Tom Hanks have played Otto?

in the lady killer Otto Is he in the cars movies? No, what's a movie about auto? O T-T-O, not auto. He's a man called auto. Come on.

I... Do our accents make, when I say auto just sound like vroom-v-rum-o? No, in an American dialect, they sound the same. It's fine. Otto. No, I am just stupid. Okay. Basic instinct. Oh, shit. I said the movie. Fuck. Well, I would have gotten there.

All right. Would you have? So, we'll peek behind the curtain. Basic instinct. The names were Ginger McKenna, Andrew Shepard, and Newman. Damn it. I would have gotten Andrew Shepard. I don't know who Ginger is. Ginger McKenna is Sharon. from Casino. Oh, yes. And Newman is Newman from Seinfeld. Damn it. That was a fun one.

All right, next one. Great movie. Bruce Wayne, Sophie Zawistowski, and King Louis XVI. Is Sophie Meryl Streep? Uh-huh. And what was the first name again? Bruce Wayne. Bruce Wayne.

Merrill Streep and either Christian Bale, George Clooney, or. Val Kilmer or Michael Keaton or Christian Bale Or Or Robert Pattinson Or you've still missed one Ben Affleck

You forgot Batfleck Oh Batfleck Oh yeah So it's one of them Blacking that out of my mind like I should Yeah Hmm Can't really ring a bell

From any of those actors What about King Louis the 16th? all those kings blur together for me so you don't know which one was king louis the 16th which story he's in he's chopping off someone's head french revolution something he's not the one chopping off heads but french revolution is correct oh okay he wouldn't be the one chopping off heads in the french sportsman yes oh oh fantastic mr fox it is cluny it is cluny fantastic mr fox yes it is cluny fantastic mr fox Yeah, King Louis the 16th is Schwartzman and Marie Antoinette.

All right. God, the voice performances in Fantastic Mr. Fox are unilaterally. So good. So good. Tremendous. All right. Theodore Twombly, Hilly Holbrook, and Salvador Dali. Salvador Dali is Adrian Brody. In Midnight in Paris.

Yes. I remember this. What's the middle name? Hilly Holbrook. Also kind of remember that. Adrian Brody, really? Theodore Twombly What's a movie with a Theodore?

The Great Munchkin Adventure Or The Great Chipmunk Adventure No It's a name that sounds way more whimsical Than the actual character Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. It's sort of ironic in that way.

Hilly Holbrook is a name I thought you might get right away. Is that Chody Foster in contact? No, that's Ellie Arrowway. Hilly Holbrook, ain't you tired, Miss Hilly? Oh, so that's

Bryce Dallas Howard. This is the village. Peterer Twombly is her. Is Joaquin Phoenix and her. Hilly Holbrook is Bryce Dallas Howard, in the help that is the village, correct. All right. Achilles, Stacey Jack's, Marie Antoinette.

Brad Pitt is Achilles. Marie Antoinette is Kiki Dunst. This is interview with the vampire as well. This is interview with the vampire. Stacey Jacks? Rock of Ages. Tom Cruise. Yes.

All right. Next one. K. Adams, Mona dearly. and Judy Benjamin Okay, I know all these names I feel like you've maybe used one of these names again Mona dearly Is that a drowning Mona?

It is Is that Do they kill Do they kill Jamie Lee Curtis or Bet Midler? They kill Bet Midler Is this beaches? It's not beaches. She wouldn't have been second-pilled anyway.

Right. First Wives Club. First Wives Club. You want to get the other ones? K. Adams. K. Adams is Diane Keaton in... I know what this is. Baby Boom.

No, the Godfather. Oh, yeah. Judy Benjamin is, of course... Private Benjamin. Private Benjamin. Goldie Hawn. You are really getting my ass shown to certain sections of our listenership. You made me show my ass on the show.

Shakespeare one and the Godfather, a movie series that I have recently remanded. I was going to say, I know. All right. Alicia. Going by her maiden name, please. Come on. Okay. Kay Corleone.

In fairness, the Corleones eventually do not claim her. Right. Alicia Nash, Meyer Lansky, and Mary of Jesus. Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. Uh, Meyer Lansky. Another movie you've seen recently. But didn't like.

I liked? Didn't like. Did not like. Okay. You saw it, though, for a hundred snubs. I mean, I watched a lot of movies. I did not like for a hundred snubs. Alicia Nash, I thought you'd get right away.

Alicia Nash is an Oscar-winning role. Yeah, that's Jennifer Connolly. this is House of Sand and Fogg Yes, it's a beautiful mind as Alicia Nash All right, who is Meyer Lansky Myerlansky, that is Ben Kingsley in Bugsy Uh-huh, and who's Mary the Mother of Jesus? You might not know because...

Shora Josh Loo in the Nativity story, I'm guessing? No, although, no, because I think that's Keisha Castle Hughes is a nativity story. Oh, right, she's married. Right. Why did I think that that was... It's the nativity story. Why did I think that Keisha Castle? Hasel Hughes was very Magdalene.

Shari Agadashlu plays Mary the Mother of Jesus in Mrs. Davis, which I know you haven't watched yet, but I just wanted to be able to say... I do need to watch Mrs. Davis. By the time this is up, Mrs. Davis will have been over for like two months, so I've given people plenty of chances to be surprised by Shori Agadashou showing up as Mary the Mother of Jesus. But let me tell you. Much like me, I think you are going to make people pull the trigger on it.

It's a moment. It's one scene, but it is chef's kiss, so good. All right. Last one. Dallas, Richard Nixon, and Nelson Mandela. Okay. Dallas is definitely,

that's like, hopefully not David Spade for, is it Dallas Roberts or whatever? Richard Nixon, Anthony Hopkins. What was the third one? Nelson Mandela. Morgan Freeman

slash Idris Elba That is the dilemma Is this Amistad? It's Amistad, who's Dallas? Dallas is Matthew McConaughey in conceivably many movies Magic Mike is the conceivably many movies, yes I would have said Magic Mike,

I would have said Dallas Byers Club What if his name was Dallas in Dallas Byers Club? And his last name is Byers Club Yeah. It's a biopic of Dallas Buyers Club. All right. All right. That is our alter egos on score nominees.

Very good Chris File. This movie got three Saturn Award nominations, I should say. Not the Saturn Awards. Millison Simmons, also who is nominated, by the way, I should say, at the Critics' Choice that year, for Best Younger Actor or Actress, loses to Brooklyn Prince from the Florida Project, nominated were Daphne Keene for Logan, Jacob Tromblay, who by this point was like the

Merrill Streep of the younger actor-actress category, I imagine, at the Critic's Choice, was like, what's the Tromblay movie this year? I guess we'll nominate him that year. It was for Wonder. And then McKenna Grace for that movie Gifted, which I only saw, but I only really remember as, oh, that's the movie where Chris Evans and Jenny Slate dated for a little bit in real life. Which is one of the most, like, wonder, I always think about that. Like, oh, what a lovely time that was.

But also I want to talk about Wonderstruck was in competition at the Cannes Film Festival in 2017, a very interesting competition lineup at Cannes that year. I wrote down in the outline a selection of the movies, although not all of them. But just a selection. So that was the year that the Square won, Ruben Ustland, his first of two, home doors. The one that should have won, I think we both are in agreement, is BPM. Robin Campillo's BPM. Which apparently was blocked by a few people in the jury. Almodovar has talked a little bit about it enough to suggest that Will Smith was one of them.

Yeah, you've said that before. But I think it was also Sorrentino. Is that just, is that just because we don't like Sorrentino? I mean, I've seen enough Sorrentino movies to be like, this man maybe has never met a gay person. Maybe. But anyway, other films in competition were Hong Sang Su's the day after, Double Lover, the Ozone movie, Michael Hanukkah's Happy End, which we both saw together at Toronto, The Softie Brothers Good Time, a movie I Will Never Watch again,

Fati Akeen's In The Fade, which we also saw together at TIFF. Bong Junho's Okja, which I find charming, even though it is somewhat hit. but like in a very entertaining way I think I like I do too Sophia Copla's the Beguiled my least favorite Sophia Coppola Still a good movie Still a pretty good movie actually Killing of a Sacred Deer

Yorgas Lathamosis killing of a sacred deer Noah Baumbach's The Meyerowitz Stories which is maybe my Grand Prix winner this year second to BPM if PPM's my palm winner I think the Meyerwith Stories is probably my Grand Prix winner and then Lynn Ramsey's you were never really here. Another movie I will never watch again. What are your

Grand Prix winner, because yes, we are in agreement. BPM should have that palm. It would be killing of Sacred Deer. That's a movie I realize I like way more than everyone else. I like that movie a lot. I'm with you. I like that movie a lot. Cincinnati cinema. It is shot in Cincinnati.

It is distinctly Cincinnati. Barry Keoghan, too, like for as much as people were like finally like, you know, discovered him this year with banshees and very good. Yeah. Go back and watch Killing of a Sacred Deer and like be unsettled.

Be very unsettled. Right. Also talking about if you think Julianne, Julian Moore is doing on Natalie Portman in safe. Colin Farrell is really doing a Natalie Portman in the killing of a sacred deer just in terms of like, let's try and see what this voice is. Why am I doing it?

I don't know. But Colin Farrell is doing sexy in that movie you see a lot of his naked body and I found it appealing. That is true. What I also love about this because Jessica Chastain was on the jury

and after their awards she was dropping blind items about the lineup of saying how shocking it was the depiction of women from major filmmakers around the world but not naming any movies specifically. I at the time thought that she was talking about good time.

But didn't she later come out and say something very complimentary about good time? She later came out and was like, this is a great movie. Blah, blah, blah. I saw it at camp. So she wasn't talking about Good Time. I think she was talking about the Michelle Anaviso's movie about Godard. Which other people had that complaints. There's not a whole lot of movies that she could be talking about.

Specifically in that lineup, but she, I believe, was shading Oscar winner. Michelle has ambitious. Okay. What else do we want to say? We are sort of coming up upon time to do the IMDB game, but what else do we want to say about Wonderstruck? I'm going to go into my notes, but what about you? Be kind to Wonderstruck. It is not a flawless movie. It is not, you know, I mean, I understand when people quickly come out and say that it's the weakest Todd Haynes movie. I'm not so sure that I could give you an example so quickly. He's never made up. bad movie. Yeah. I would not call Wunderstruck Bad. I'm just, I have conflicting feelings on it. For, for, I think, what it's reaching for and what it's doing, I think it's, it's very

ambitious and very modest at the same time, but I don't know. I really connect to it emotionally. I remember seeing this and Coco in like the same week in the span of a few days, and it's, you know, both movies that are ultimately about a grandson and a grandmother, and I was disheveled leaving both of them. Yeah. One note I wrote down, this movie begins with Ben having this somewhat sort of watercolor-esque dream about wolves, this very sort of like stylized dream about wolves, which ends up coming into play

when you find out that his father did the Natural History Museum diorama about wolves. But it comes right at the beginning of the movie, like before credits or anything. And I definitely thought it was the title card for Mongrel Media, which is

that Canadian distributor who we only ever really see their title card and fanfare when we're at TIF because they're the TIF distributor for all the like Sony Pictures classics and A24s and neon's and all those like smaller indie distributors, they are distributed in Canada through mongrel media. So, like, you show up at TIF, and, like, I remember being like, why is everything this

one distributor? And it's just like, oh, okay, like, you see that fanfare so many times. And I will say, for as much as I talk about the focus features fanfare being like the most soothing to me ever, like I really like bliss out when I hear that, uh, the mongrel media one is, is up there with that. Like, listen to it like three tones that it ends with are very, very, you know, Very, very, like... Yes.

You know, when you get, when you see someone get hypnotized, like a tiny little thing, that's fair. Check it out. I'll probably, if I can remember it, I'll drop a sound drop in. But like, go to YouTube and like look at the, it's like 15 seconds. But it's just, it's very, it also is probably me, like, sense memorying myself back to, you know, my wonderful experience. is in Toronto.

Can we divert for two seconds to say, I don't think we've talked about this on Mike, that there is apparently going to be a sequel to the Anne Hathaway Zentea Diamonds commercial? The Bulgari commercial? Yes. Ooh, I'm excited. Listen, listen, this is our, we come to this place for magic. Kind of, yes. Between the two of us.

It kind of is. And especially because not everybody, not all our friends were at Toronto last year, the way that, like, often is. I think it took us all of one movie to text Katie to be like, Katie, there's a bulgaria. Because one of the things we talk about, especially with our other friend Nick Davis, was the preponderance of the L'Oreal ad that would come in the pre-roll. And, like, the L'Oreal ad was kind of supplanted by the Bulgary ad this year. And it's one of those ones, like, Nick would always do, like, a capsule review of whatever that year's L'Oreal ad was, as if it was a movie. and the Bulgaria had had that energy to it, Ann Hathaway and Zendaya, and the room full of falling flowers, and the peacock for some reason.

And so, yes, I am very excited for Bulgari Part 2. I will say that. So, say that. Search for new endings. There are only beginnings, whatever weird copy they have. I also wanted about Wonderstruck, just very quickly shout out. There's some good song drops in this one. When he shows up in New York City, there's the...

Esther Phillips sound drop that we get and then that Fox on the Run song that comes a little bit later on. Good

Todd Haynes, as ever, is good with a soundtrack, I will say. Yeah, Wonderstruck. Glad we did it. Glad we did it. Good movie. Be nice to it.

All right. Would you like to tell our listeners about the IMD game? The IMD game. Listeners, you know it as how we end our episodes, where we challenge each other with an actor or actress to try to guess the top four titles that IMDB says they are most known for. If any of those titles are television, voice-only performances or non-acting credits, we'll mention that up front. After two wrong guesses, we get the remaining titles release years as a clue. And if that's not enough, it's just going to become a free for all of hints.

Free for all of hints. Woo-hoo! We love it. Chris, would you like to guess first or give first? I'm going to give first. I feel like I'm throwing you somewhat of a softball, so let's just get it out of the way. All right, let's see it.

We mentioned the very talented Millicent Simmons's performances in the quiet game motion pictures. Quiet place. In the motion picture, Wonderstructually, and Moore plays her mother, Her mother in a quiet place is Emily Blunt. Have we not done Emily Blunt? I guess not.

Crazy. All right. Emily Blunt's known for. Here's what I will say, and this is not the most obvious one, but I know that this is one that tends to be overrepresented on the IMDB game. I'm going to guess Mary Poppins returns. Incorrect. Okay. Good.

But also, okay. All right. Emily Blunt, then. What are, like, the... Well, a quiet place. Incorrect. No! Crazy! Okay. I thought I was giving you so...

Well, I mean, now that I look at it, I shouldn't have said that. Okay. Your years are 2006, 2011, 2011, and 2014. All right, 2006 is Devil Wears Prada. Correct. 2014 isn't Secario, right? Secario's 2015. That is correct.

So 14, 11, and 11, is that what you're saying? Asterix on one of those 11s. Is that it doesn't come out until 12? I do believe. Is that your sister's sister? Incorrect. Because that's a 2012, and that's, I believe it's a 2012, at least. And that movie.

Oh, Russ-a-piece, Lynn Shelton. Good movie. Her rules. What a good movie. All right. Adjustment Bureau? The Adjustment Bureau. That definitely did come out in 2011. I think the Adjustment Bureau showed up for, like, Matt Damon. Listen, good hats, beautiful hats. It must, that movie must live in perpetuity on TNT or something if people even still have TNT.

I have cable I will say I'm back to having cable So Is that like the outro movie To Yellowstone episodes or something Maybe Is that the like our version of drag race Showing, you know, mean girls?

Maybe I've managed to On Fox movie channel Or FX movie channel Rather watch Alien Covenant twice In the last four days I saw that log I was like

What the hell is Joe doing? It's just on TV, man. Like, I caught it right at the beginning. And I was like, yes, I will stay up until after midnight to watch it. Better than I remember it. But still, everybody, all the humans in that are so dumb. And I get that, like, now I, as I said in my review, I'm like, now I'm like in 2023 on the other side of some like really, you know, human events that did not shine us in a very well light. I guess I can't look at a movie and be like, boy, the humans are too stupid to be believable.

and it's like, no, that's probably what we would have fucking done. Prometheus and Alien Covenant are about COVID. But, like, literally, Alien Covenant is they're going to one planet. They find another planet that they, like, in, like, two minutes are, like, looks like it's habitable. And then they go land on it and they, like, walk around without helmets or anything on. And it's like, you guys are bad scientists and also bad explorers and also too dumb to live. so they Darwin award. But they are kind of like the scientists a corporation would hire to go and possibly die.

They're like, they're pioneers in this one. They're more just like, because they're all couples and they're supposed to like repopulate whatever planet they land on. So like they're not like, they're not scientists in the way that the ones in Prometheus were. But they still should like basic bitch enough to know that like this planet that we have been aware of for all of an hour and a half probably shouldn't like trust. it implicitly, that it's not going to be, like, environmentally ruinous. And they're doing things, like, picking up pieces of vegetation and just, like, what are you doing? Like, I don't know.

Anyway. Billy crewed up, like, stick in his face over a fucking pool of goo. Like, what I get that, like, it all works for the movie. And Michael Fassbender making out with himself. Well, that's the real. That's the show of Alien Covenant. Like, that's what you show up for is Michael Fatsbender, teach. teaching himself, teaching the clone of himself

to play to play the flute by saying do the fingering just like I'm doing the fingering or whatever the fuck he says. Like, it's all very, anyway. What was I? I'm doing Emily Blunt's 2011 asterix and 2014. All right, young Victoria was before then.

Oh, looper? not looper however the i i will accept multiple title answers multiple title answers yes this is a movie that has like alternate titles yes famously hilariously annoyingly so famously hilariously annoyingly so multiple titles is it one of those like birdman or the no not like that as in like there have been releases of the movie under different names on, like, home video. Oh, I love this movie, fucking live, die, repeat. Kiss my ass. Day After Tomorrow.

What a great movie. No, not Day After Tomorrow. Or not Day After Tomorrow. No, Day After Tomorrow was another dumber, but fun movie. That's not Live, I Repeat. Day After Tomorrow is Run, Freeze. Run, Freeze, Puncha, C.G.I. Wolf. Run freeze bark.

No, what is it? It's not day after, it's, um, um, um, what the fuck is it called? Edge of Tomorrow. Edge of Tomorrow. See? Because lived I repeat has like burrowed into my brain now. I hate that.

Okay. Yeah. Um, Edge of Tomorrow. Also, I would have accepted edge of tomorrow colon, live die repeat. Sure. Um, and then the 2014 one. 2011. The 2011 into 2012 one, right?

That was the 2014 one. Um. So it's an indie movie that, like, festivaled in 2011? Yes. Is she the main star of it? She is second built. To Amy Adams, is it sunshine cleaning? No.

She is second build to... Oh, is it... No, it's not five-year engagement. Is she second bill to a romantic interest? Yes. Indie Romance. I mean, romance, yes. This premiered at Tiff came out in the spring

and stayed in the late year conversation for reasons unexpected. Huh. Awards reasons unexpected? For her? Yes. In 2012. That became a punchline? That became a punchline.

So not the Terrence Davies movie then. She's not in a Terrence Davies movie. No, I'm thinking of Rachel Weiss. Deep Blue Sea, a movie that's title is about a body of water. Oh, is that a clue for this Emily Blunt movie? Yes. We have done this movie. Whoa, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh.

Oh, that was a... Jesus. That was a year after festival movie, huh? It's been a while since we did Samming Fishing in the Yemen, and that's insane that that's on her known for, by the way, and that you would think it would be easy for me to get that is also insane. I would have thought once we got to the year, and I'm like, it's not actually 2011.

No. No, that movie got memory hole. It's been several years since we've done salmon fishing in the Yemen. So the memory hole box of that is well and truly put away. All right. All right. Who do you have for me? I have for you.

What was even the path to this actor? She's in a Ton Haynes movie. Oh, she's in the Mildred Pierce movie, although not in a major role for it. But anyway, I was surprised to learn that we have never done Hope Davis, an actor who was in another Cannes movie that was well received this year. She's my favorite part of the Asteroid City trailer when she's telling... I'm so happy Hope Davis got to be funny again. I know.

It's so good. All right. So this is kind of... I will say, this is going to be a little bit of a challenging one for you, but give me Hope Davis is known for. American Splendor. Yes, correct. Closest she's come to an Oscar nomination, I believe, is American Splendor. See, that's like her moment, too.

So I'm almost tempted to say Secret Lives of Dennis, but, like, who knows that movie anymore? Huh. I love Hope Davis. I'm just going to say proof Not proof Speaking of movies that we've done So that's one strike See she'll randomly show up

And be a bureaucrat In like Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Which Laura Linney actually did I believe she's first built In like Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles too I'm just going to say the secret lives of Dennis. No, it's not. All right. So your remaining movies are 2002, 2008, and 2016. Oh, 2016. So that's

semi-recent. O2, which would have been before American Splendor. Mm-hmm. Pardon me. Awards movie. Yes. It's not like, well, Gosser Park's 01, so O2, which is not in the hours, though God, could you imagine? I could, actually.

Awards as in actually nominated for Oscars? Yes, not best picture, but other other major awards. So O2, you have a Lord of the Rings, you have Chicago, you have the pianist, you have Chicago The Hours, you have, what was the other one? Oh, it's about Schmidt.

It is About Schmidt. It plays Jack Nicholson's daughter in About Schmidt. Yes. All right, 08 and 2016. These are the hard ones. Okay. So it's like not movies you would think of for Hope Davis. Right. They're very small roles in both of them. Yeah. One is a movie I'm going to guess you like. One is a movie that I'm going to guess you've never seen because it's by this point that you'd washed your hands of this genre. It's the 2016 movie It's got to be a superhero movie It is I feel like actually she is in

I don't think she's in a Marvel movie But I think she's in D.C. It can't be Batman versus Superman, is it? It's not Is it D.C.? No Okay, so it's Marvel. Yes. Marvel in

2016, is that Captain America's Civil War? Yes, good job. She plays Tony Stark's mother in a flashback. That's right. Yes. Um, okay, so 2008. It's a movie with a big, big, big cast.

Yeah. Huge cast, 2008. Yes. Awards movie? No, but it was in the conversation. Probably because it was such a big cast. Probably got precursors for a lot of different things, I would imagine. Yeah.

But it was not, I don't believe it got any Oscar nominations. What would that have been in O? Which means we could do it. So that is the year of, it's the year after the Coens. What won after the Coens won? What's between, okay, what's between no country and Hurt Locker? Why can't I remember this? It's slummed up.

Oh, that's why, because I don't like that movie. Well, it's not Frost Nixon then, though. I probably would have guessed Frost Nixon. That would make sense. But I think that's Rebecca Hall, right? Yeah. And Frost Nixon got Oscar nominations. This one did not.

Okay, so what would that have been? There is definitely like an ensemble movie from that year. Big, big ensemble Yeah, I know I'm gonna get there An ensemble with a lot of women in it Although the lead is not a woman It's not like Casa Delos Babies

That's like a decade earlier I will say there are two actors Who are in Wonderstruck who are in this movie I'm guessing Julianne and Michelle Williams Michelle Williams, yes Okay, Michelle Williams 08 ensemble Michelle Williams and

Urbaniac? No That wouldn't have helped me anyway Um Michelle Williams and Tom Noonan

Yes. Senecta Key, New York. Senecta Key, New York. Very good. The cavalcade of women in this movie, a movie that I have come to respect, even though it made me legitimately go into a depressive spiral for more than a week when I saw it. But Catherine Keener, Michelle Williams, Samantha Morton, Hope Davis, Jennifer Jason Lee, Elizabeth Marvel, Emily Watson,

Diane Weist, Deirdre O'Connell, Lynn Cohen, wait, I'm like literally like scrolling down, Robin Weigert, Emily Watson, I said, Diane Weist, I said, Alice Drummond is in that movie. Like, it is truly a feast for anybody who loves actresses, even though, like I said, that is a movie that very well may make you think about your own life in a way that you do not want to, is all I will say,

especially if you're single. ripped off poorly by Ariaster this year. I like Boz Afraid, but you are not wrong that it. I'm glad it's out of his system. The way that you would talk about Behozafraid, where you would be like, I like it, and then say all the things you hated about it. I'm like, you don't like it, though, is the thing.

I'm glad you finally are deciding to live in your truth about that. I did like it. I don't like the way. But the similarities. Having a phone shows up and you're like, oh, this is Ayanesco, this is the weird Albi. This is, and it's like, no, she's just elevating the movie. The movie's not good.

You're not wrong about the similarities to Synecichy, New York, but I did find it. While uneven, and I think it has pacing problems, I especially love the very beginning section in the city, and I'm very, very glad that I saw it, and it is not a perfect movie, but, like, I am, I think the reality of what you were saying, which is, I like it with some issues. That is me for real, whereas I think you are saying, I didn't like it, but I want to be fair to it. It's maybe, yeah. Anyway, anyway, anyway, we're at the two hour mark.

Anyway, Todd Haynes, new movie this year. Very excited. Yes. We love it. Yes. All right. That is our episode, listeners. If you would like more ThisHad Oscar Buzz, you can check out the Tumblr at ThisHadoscurbuzz.com.

You should also follow our Twitter account at Had underscore Oscar Buzz and our Instagram at This Head Oscar Buzz. Chris File has been doing really, really fun stuff on our Instagram at This Had Oscar Buzz throughout the 100 years, 100 snubs. I hope you do too, because I've been really enjoying and I've been enjoying seeing the comments from people. like definitely like comment on our on our Instagram because we love hearing from you and and we want to establish a footbase somewhere that is not Twitter and you know that building eventually also if somebody has a blue sky invite and wants to send it to either me or Chris I will happily accept I don't know about you but is it blue sky or is it bluesky I don't care I think people were saying bluesky because they didn't want Elon Musk to delete

their tweets about it, but like... Interesting. I think it's Blue Sky. I don't know. If it's Blusky, whatever the fuck it's called, have me over, and I'll find out. I don't have an invite yet. Anyway, Chris, where can the listeners find more of you on non-Blusky? Not on Blusky.

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