This Had Oscar Buzz - 244 – Everything is Illuminated

Episode Date: June 26, 2023

In the early aughts, Jonathan Safran Foer’s Everything Is Illuminated was an inescapable book, launching the young author’s career (and more than a few skeptics). Naturally, the film adaptation came along, though with the unexpected pedigree of cherished actor Liev Schreiber making his director debut. Starring Elijah Wood as a fictionalized version of Foer traveling to Ukraine … Continue reading "244 – Everything is Illuminated"

Uh-oh, wrong house. No, the right house. I didn't get that! We want to talk to Marilyn Heck. Jonathan is traveling halfway around the world. You my translator? Forgive my speaking of English, Jonathan. As I'm not so premium with him.

To search for the woman who saved his grandfather in World War II. It's my grandfather, Safan. And this is Augustina? This is our driver. Please, do not be distressed. This is only driver seeing eye, bitch. Wait, he's blind? Only he thinks this.

Hello and welcome to the This Had Oscar Post. podcast the only podcast hiding our secrets in a diorama of New York City. Every week on this at Oscar Buzz we'll be talking about a different movie that once upon a time had Lofty Academy Award aspirations, but for some reason or another, it all went wrong. The Oscar hopes died and we're here to perform the autopsy. I'm your host, Chris Fyle, and I'm here as always with my seeing-eye bitch, Joe Reeves. You asshole. Hello, I am very spectacular to talk to you. today. Like I'm the one who usually does that.

Hello, boys. I'm mostly doing Zoya the Destroyer from Glow. When I do that, I'm mostly just being Alison Brie at that moment. So that's fine. Had you either seen this movie or read this book before? I read the book. You never got to see the movie because it bombs so quickly. I mean, like, this.

is also right when I started college when the movie was released. So getting to a theater was difficult in the immediate fall of 2005. Sure, sure. And I think that this left pretty quickly because I wasn't in a major city for college. I remember being like anticipating this movie and I think same with you where by the time I even, you know, was aware, it was already there and gone, and then I just never watched it on DVD for some odd reason. If you had stepped into any

type of establishment in the years from 2002 to 2005, any type of establishment that sold any type of books, you were familiar with the title. Everything is illuminated. This book was kind of fucking everywhere. I remember

EW hyping it quite a bit. Yes. So, like, the book is a huge reason why this is already a prestige title. The movie, which got very, very milk toast reviews immediately and then came out, and of course that's how it gets forgotten. The movie played

three of the major fall festivals. World's premieres at Telluride, then goes to Venice, then goes to... Yeah, there were some expectations here, for sure. The rarity of when that used to have, that, you know, they would do Telluride, and then it's not Venice and then Telluride Right

So what was it Was Telluride bump their festival A few days later Or did Venice bump there's a few days earlier I think it was probably just late in Venice Sure sure sure sure sure I see And you know Those festival reviews were not strong

Right And like this is a first time feature It's interesting reading those reviews though A lot of them I tried to read as many of them as I could And There were a lot They all came from, I feel like, very distinct places. There were some people who really liked the book and thought the movie didn't do it justice.

There were some people who really didn't like the book and thought the movie maybe did a little better, but were still just annoyed enough with the whole thing to just want to wash their hands of it. There were people like, I think Ebert's review was positive, and I don't think he had read the book. And so there was just a lot of angles to the reception for this movie in terms of like what people, were bringing to, I think, already, and we're definitely going to talk a little bit about Jonathan Saffronfor as a literary personality and what that brings to the table, because I think while a lot of it sort of happened and evolved after both the book and the movie version of everything is illuminated, I think in terms of this movie's legacy, I think his sort of

standing as a novelist and a writer and, like I said, a literary personality. is significant. I also want to say, and listeners, you're not going to know the majesty of this, but the way that Chris right now is aligned in the frame where he has a shelf above him, he has a headband around his head that comes to a top little bow,

but where you were aligned a second ago, the things that are on the shelf above you look like they are springing forth from your headband. So you almost look like a Carmen Miranda kind of figure. with like just a big you know headdress on it was kind of amazing inside baseball apartment living i record from my closet that is my shelf of clothes yes uh precariously not falling on my head but any day now i just wanted to point that out though because it was giving me um a lot of joy like where is he going with this and it's just full non sequitur into uh what i'm wearing uh should we maybe start with the jonathan saffron of it all before we even begin with the plot of the movie though? Because maybe that's like important. I mean like

spoiler alert, we are recording this episode the week the weekend of the news of Natalie Portman's and Benjamin Milpier is, you know, commitment to stay together despite his indiscretions. And all

of my Twitter is jokes about Jonathan Safran Foer wanting to get back together with Natalie Portman. Back together. We put in like quote marks too. So, well, so I make a lot of jokes on here about how I don't read and I don't learn to read. And I feel like sometimes it gives the impression that I sneer at books and I don't, and I have sort of like

set myself opposed to that world. Honestly, couldn't be more opposite. I think if I had the life of leisure that I would want to live, I would be reading books all the time. I think part of the reason why I make those jokes is because I'm kind of so annoyed that I never seem to... Time management is always a struggle for old Joe. So I never seem to have the time to commit to being a reader. And so I am very jealous of people around me who talk about like, well, I read this book and I read these amount of books in this month. And I read like these amount of books this year. And I'm like, I want that life. And I don't think it's those people

have copious amounts of more free time and are like, you know, dithering around in their lives of privilege. I think those people manage their time in a way that prioritizes them being able to read a book. So like, this is not me being a busier beaver than anybody else. It's just what? Yes. Yes. Also, no, because I think a lot of those people, who are reading umpteen books in a week or whatever are not people who are going back and watching the earliest seasons of Project One Runway, as you and I both are. It's a fair criticism. That's a fair critique, Chris.

You're not wrong. You know, sometimes I watch trash like that, and I'm like, I could be reading a book. They're also not like watching just random YouTube videos that the algorithm floats up to me and their downtime is the other thing. But I also feel like I couldn't read just in my downtime because I need to really dedicate time. That's why I don't, I know a lot of people are like, oh, just read before you go to bed. I'm like, I'll fall asleep, not because the books are boring. Yeah, that's the way for me to read a book a page at a time.

That's the thing is I'll, or like, I'll do a thing where all of a sudden I'll, like, realize that, like, I kind of spaced for the last four pages and have to, like, double back and go back and, like, read it again. And I'm like, I joke that I'm a dummy. I'm not a dummy. I'm, you know, this is not a bad movie. It's a good movie. I just, but anyway, all of which is to say that I wish I were the kind of person who is more plugged into the literary scene. And so when we were preparing to talk about this movie, I texted a bunch of friends who I know, are, if not in the literary scene, like, are more conversant in that universe. Because I know

that Jonathan Saffron Forre is somebody who, a lot of people, like, he's somebody, like, I'm aware of mostly because, like, people on Vulture and in New York Magazine, like, make, like, snide jokes about him or whatever. So it's like, he's somebody who is enough of a known quantity that, like, he has a standing. And so I'm just like, what's the deal with Jonathan Saffron Forer? And interestingly enough, I got a lot of different types of responses. And a lot of it basically lined up with what my general sense of him was, which is he's, you know, this sort of like pretentious Brooklynite, you know, in the, wrapped up in the sort of Fransan generation, Jonathan Ames, the sort of like Brooklyn Brownstone, Park Slope, whatever, that he was sort of acclaimed from a very young age that

the divisiveness of, he also wrote extremely loud and incredibly close subsequently close. Yeah, consider this are extremely loud and incredibly close episode as well. Also that, so that book and movie, but like before the movie even, the book was very divisive. And then, but like, before we get to even

the Natalie Portman stuff, which I think like really is like the cherry on top of it. But like comes from a very, a privileged background, let's say. You know, father is a lawyer and a fairly prominent lawyer. Mother is a rabbi and a fairly

prominent rabbi. And I said to a friend of mine as I was texting him, I was like, any time that the term day school comes up in a Wikipedia article, I'm like, I know a lot about you already. He went to like Georgetown Day School or whatever. I was just like okay. And so one of three like sons who all ended up like, you know, to some degree or another

notable. His one brother founded, oh, what's the, oh shit, hold on. Because one of them was like editor of the New Republic, and one of them was, hold on, I'm gonna, I thought I had all the tabs that I wanted to have open, open. His older brother is a former editor of the New Republic. Like, his younger brother founded Atlas Obscura, which is a sort of online literary magazine, travel magazine, something or other, whatever. It's a thing that, it's one of those other things where it's like heard of it. And then Jonathan Saffronfowar went to Princeton and took creative writing at Princeton. And his thesis advisor was Joyce Carroll Oates. So everything is illuminated begins as essentially his creative writing thesis under the advisement of Joyce Carol Oates.

Joyce get drunk on Twitter and tell us what you think about Jonathan Saffron Fowar. So he writes Everything is Illuminated, which is a work of fiction based on a trip to Eastern Europe that he actually took after his sophomore year of college. summer after his sophomore year of college, he goes to Eastern Europe. I can't remember whether it was specifically Ukraine or like somewhere in that sort of general vicinity. The book and film are set in the Ukraine. With a similar purpose of sort of finding out something about this person who he thought was instrumental in helping his grandfather escape the Holocaust.

And through, and again, I've mentioned before, how it's somewhat dispiriting that a lot of the research material that is available on YouTube is from old Charlie Rose interviews, but from a Charlie Rose interview that I read, or that I listen to. Here I am Las Culturista singing it up with

mixing up readers and listeners and whatnot. Anyway, Jonathan's out from four doesn't end up finding this person. Like comes nowhere near finding this person. It also kind of doesn't have, in his own telling of it, doesn't have the kind of truth-dawning experience that he wanted to have out of this thing, that it was a little bit sort of pedestrian and

disappointing. And yet out of this, he decides to write a fictional version of kind of how he wishes that whole thing had gone, which I think speaks to maybe a lot of people's problems with Jonathan Saffronfor as a writer, as a novelist, in that he sort of takes these real antecedents, the Holocaust, or 9-11, and then writes up the sort of, I'm not going to say whimsical, because I think that's an overused term with something like this, but sort of a Fabalistic. Yes, and sort of a more sort of

like literary version of events surrounding these things that allow these events to be viewed in a light of something that feels illuminating not to like, I keep trying not to use the term illuminating because like it's too

perfect, but like that, that kind of thing. And I spoiler, ended up really liking the movie of Everything is illuminated, and it took me a while before I realized that I was liking this movie, and I went on a little bit of a

journey with this movie. But by the end, I was really moved by it, and I really liked it. And it made me think that I would actually really like the novel, even though I know that the movie takes a lot out of it. We'll talk about that, too, maybe after we do the plot description, because I want to hear from you. From what I remember of the book, because at this point I read it

20 years ago, from what I remember of the book, it is more told from Boris's point of view and you get that whole like broken English Alex you mean Alex is the character in the movie at least oh the actor's name is oh there you go yes uh yes from his point of view and you know it becomes like this punchline in the movie but it's also a punchline in the book in a way but like you have to as a reader, be filtering out his, his limitations with language to understand Jonathan, I did actual quotes with my fingers, you know, as the character who is the name of the author, you know.

Well, the other thing, though, from what I'm given to understand is that the novel also has a significant portion of its narrative taking place not only in the village, in the, in the time leading up to the war, but also, like, several generations before that, right, with his sort of, like, great, great, great, grandmother. Right. And it's not a very big book, so, like, I don't think it's a huge portion of the book, if I remember correctly. But it's probably the biggest portion that's taken out entirely.

Right, right. Because I know just reading the reviews of the movie, there are, there's, that gets mentioned. But I also think you look at, like, he's. Jonathan Saffrin-Faure is the kind of person who would write himself into his novel as the main character as in that name. And I'm sure a lot of that goes into, he wants to pay tribute to his family. And there's, I don't want to apply sort of sinister intent to Jonathan Saffron-Ford. I think there's a lot of sort of demonization of him as a personality type, this child of privilege, this sort of pretentious Brooklynite, this. And then the Natalie Portman thing, which I will let you explain because I've been talking too much, really plays in.

into this. Okay, I actually maybe don't remember the whole, I remember that there's a thing where he said that they dated and she was like, um, actually, but I thought that was Moby. I don't know the Moby of it all. So here's what I... Is there multiple people who have been like, I dated Natalie Portman? I don't know. I wouldn't be surprised.

I think Natalie Portman sort of built herself a, not built herself, but like, like became kind of an avatar of Jewish dream girl to her for, I think, probably a whole generation of people. But so from what I was able to glean, and this is this dovetails with how I remember it, this was around 2015, 2016, something like that, that he and Natalie Portman had been maintaining a correspondence and a friendship through essentially email since essentially his novel. She was a big fan of the novel. She was a, she

talked publicly about how his his book about vegetarianism, which I think is called Eating Animals, which I also read is. And he's, he's very big in vegetarianism. That's sort of like one of like the top three things to know about Jonathan Seferrinfoor is he is like major, major

evangelical about his vegetarianism. And that book, I remember it being somewhat simplistic, but like, offering certain amount of nuggets of information. Nuggets, because he writes a letter to the Tyson Chicken Corporation. Vegetarian nuggets. What's like a happy star?

Is that a vegetarian? Morning star, right? Morning star, I think. Yes. Morning star. Yeah. I'll take your word for it. Yeah.

Seriously. Morningstar Veggie burgers is a sponsor. Let's take a break. Hi, listeners. I will lie through my teeth about enjoying veggie burgers if you give us money for me to do so. I will 100%. Anyway, that book, while also being somewhat self-aggrandizing,

is, did also, I thought, provide for maybe the everyday viewer some real, you know, some factoids that, you know, might actually give them pause and ultimately be effective. This is basically what I've read about that book, that it is actually like pretty good journalism in terms of, you know, the meat, the, you know, agribusiness meat industry,

while also at the same time, like, layering onto it this sort of Tweed story about, like, I'm a dad now. And, you know, this is sort of, you know, that kind of a thing. Writing a letter to the Tyson Chicken Corporation to, like, ask them politely to, you know, whatever. Go on with the Portman thing. Right, right. So Portman, like, says publicly that that book,

helped convince her to become a vegan and so she's like she's a big fan, he's a big fan they have this correspondence. I think she narrates or maybe produced the documentary that was adapted from it. It's very possible. And she's at this time becoming a filmmaker

and she's very, very, very much into her filmmaking is very attuned to her Judaism, her sort of like back to her roots kind of a thing and that's obviously a lot of what everything is illuminated is about. So like you can see why they would have, you know, been drawn to each other and a friendship. And so there's

this email correspondence that eventually gets leaked to somebody, I think at some point, AJ Delarios involved, which like grain assault, grain assault. But they eventually get published in, if not the New York Times magazine, that like some New York Times offshoot. And the emails are not exactly like this torrid love affair, but they are you know, kind of intense and very sort of like intellectual and he, you can read these things and really get the sense that he is trying to sort of, you know, draw her in

with his, you know, his intellect. And there is a, if not necessarily an emotional affair. Like, there is something there going on in these emails, right? But then Jonathan Saffron-Foeuvre at that point divorces his wife, this is the scuttle butt of it all, not to be aquafina. No aquafina, but this is the scuttle butt, is that Jonathan Saffron-Fa-Foeuvre divorces his wife on the idea that he is now going to leave. He's going to be leaving his wife for Natalie Portman. And Natalie Portman, and this is not in like any of the emails that you came forward, but this is but essentially it gets reported as gossip, is that Natalie Portman is like,

Oh, I'm not leaving my husband, and, like, you probably shouldn't have left your wife? And, like, they're not even, like, having an affair. It's still basically, this is email correspondence, right? And so he kind of jumps the gun and divorces his wife. And he, and, like, when this hall comes out, it's super embarrassing. And it makes him look bad in that, like, for obvious reasons, but also makes it look like he over overshot his own level of confidence that Natalie Portman was going to leave her husband because of these, you know, very emotionally intense emails that they were sending to each other. So it, like, it makes him look bad. It makes him look dumb and sort of plays into this idea of, you know, child of privilege, Brooklyn hipster jerk off who thought that he could get Natalie Portman because his emails were so

irresistible. That's the uncharitable reading of it all, but it's definitely a reading of it all that is supported at least somewhat in the text. This is like the Michael Hanukkah version of You've Got Mail. Sure. Yes. So anyway,

as if Ruben Oslin makes You've Got Mail. Kind of, yes. So it's like, it's, it's embarrassing and sort of that's kind of where he still is evidenced by the tweets that you are seeing in the timeline with any time Natalie Portman's romantic life becomes a story, outcome the tweets about Jonathan Saffronfour, which is like, you know, whatever. He's doing fine. He's got, you know, money and success.

I mean, like his successes also makes sense for the dog pile because he's seen as this pretentious person, but like wild success. out of the gate. But then when you look at the actual material of his books, like, even the, like, the good ones, like, it's corny, right? Like, it ultimately, like... It has been viewed as that by a lot of people. I think a lot of people really like his stuff. I don't want to, like... It's ultimately sincere, earnest stuff that is not, like, you know, their comparisons early on his career to him being, I don't know, you know, an early John Updike or something. something. Right. Well, that's the problem of the Wunderkind, right? Where he, like, he publishes this book and he's in his early 20s and it's, you know, this phenomenon. And like, oh, God, like, I can't imagine how that doesn't end up going to your head at some point. But here's the

other thing. And this is the thing I sort of like poked into when I talked about how I wish I was more, you know, literate in this literary world. Sorry, double adjective. Um, But I also, and this is a thing we have kind of touched on in other things, anytime we talk about anything set on the Upper West Sider in Brooklyn, where I will own my sort of bougie ambitions in a way that, like, I'm sure it doesn't speak super well of me, but like there is a not insignificant version of me that wishes that I could, that I was sort of, that aspires to that, that aspires to, living in Nora Ephron's apartment building, you know what I mean, that aspires to, you know, getting a townhouse in Fort Green, you know what I mean, that aspires to, and like, and all that that entails, right? So anytime anybody talks about like, park slope parents or like upper west side doyens or whatever, and I'm like, yeah, but also I kind of like, I would, you know what I mean? And, like, this is, this is probably, like, again, this is the kind of thing I should tell to a therapist or a boyfriend, and I currently have neither, and I should have both.

Not to the many garries who listen to this show. Keep it in the group chat. Yeah, essentially, yes. But anyway, this is sort of, so I see somebody like Jonathan Seferendfor, and I have sort of a kind of a knee-jerk sympathy, at least towards, at least what he's attempting. to do, right? And I'll own that. And I'll own that, like, that's the perspective that I'm coming for. And I understand that, like, that certain critics see that exact same profile and are like, this is, this is inauthentic to me. This is, this is inherently suspect. And, like, I, sure, I think that's also probably a valid way of looking at it. So, but, you know, rather

honesty, all on the table. If you have a vacant Upper West Side apartment and want to give it to me, I'm open. Anyway. All right. As you were saying. No, I was going to say, all of this

is kind of outside the reception of this movie, however. I'm not so sure it was outside the reception of extremely loud and incredibly close, a movie which it felt like from all angles people wanted to be dubious of, and then they saw the movie, and then, you know, the movie's piece of shit.

But the not, were people more open about anticipating the novel, and then all of a sudden people like slowly came to the realization that the novel was bad? Because I feel like going into the movie, there was maybe at least more of a split of some people liked the book, and some people really hated the book. Book is way more openly sentimental. I would argue it probably is somewhat of a rip-off of the curious incident of the dog in the nighttime, which was already a successful book. The thing about everything is illuminated

and extremely loud and incredibly close that I think, you know, it puts both movies out of detriment is like just the structure of them, the story that they tell, you know, the voice that they come from, It just works better in a book because there's a certain level of predictability to both of these movies. I think extremely loud is a significantly worse movie.

But, you know, in the book, you can get caught up in the narration, the, like, perspective that's being given. Whereas the movie, both movies are a little. little more flat-footed somewhat. You know, there's a certain thinness to the narrative that it becomes much more apparent, I think, on the screen than it does on the page. Yeah. I can see that. But let's get into it.

Let's get into it. I'm excited to hear what you have to say about this movie, because it sounds like you liked it quite a bit. I did, as it turns out. Yeah. But listeners, we are talking about 2005s. Everything is Illuminated, written and directed by who? Leav Schreiber, actually, based on the Jonathan Saffirm Fower novel, the movie stars

Elijah Wood, Boris Leskin, Eugene Hutz, Larissa Lorette, and Jonathan Saffron Fowler himself in a cameo. Yeah, who is he? I missed him in the... As I was watching. I think it's like he's holding a bag or something. Yeah, yeah, I definitely missed it. He is credited as leaf blower, so he's like on the street somewhere, probably doesn't even have a line. Sure. But he's there.

Classic cameo. Like I said, the movie did the fall festival run and then opened in limited release from Warner Independent on September 16th, 2006. Yes. Mr. Joe Reed, are you ready for a 60-second plot description of everything is illuminated? Yeah, though it's probably going to be long, but yes. All right. Then your 60-second plot description of everything is illuminated starts right now. Elijah Wood is Jonathan Safran 4, who collects artifacts and memorabilia about his family,

which he keeps in little Ziploc bags. And on his grandmother's deathbed, she hands him a photograph of his late grandfather from the old country where he's with a woman named Augustine, and Jonathan decides to take a trip to Ukraine to see if he can track down this woman, who he credits with saving his grandfather from the Holocaust and thus his whole subsequent family line. His Ukrainian tour guys are Alex, who is a track suit and Kangle, hack granted sentience by a blue ferry, and his widowed grandfather, who was their driver, despite thinking he's gone blind, and grandfather's deranged dog, whose name is Sammy Davis, Jr., Jr.

Slowly, it's revealed that grandfather has memories of this area of Western Ukraine that they're driving in. Their search for Trachembrode, the town mentioned on the photograph that Jonathan has, takes them finally to a house in the middle of a vast sunflower field, where an old woman keeps boxes and boxes of the trinkets and memories that are all that remain of the town of Trachambrot after the Nazis massacred nearly everyone. We learn eventually that grandfather lived in Trachimbrod as a young man, and he miraculously survived the Nazi firing squad and then abandoned his Jewish identity in order to escape. The old woman also tells Jonathan the story of his grandfather who had married Augustine, and he traveled to the U.S. a week before the massacre happened to find a home for them, and Augustine was killed by the Nazis.

Grandfather, having wordlessly confirmed the truth of his heritage to Alex, then commit suicide that night. Jonathan returns to America with a Ziploc full of soil from his grandfather's hometown, while back in Ukraine, Alex and his family, wearing yarmikas, give his grandfather a Jewish burial next to the truck and brood memorial. The end. Just like 25 seconds over, I find that commendable. So here's my thing with this movie, is the first half hour or so of this movie, I really thought I was going to hate it. And it's say, no, you want to say. Well, because Alex in this movie feels.

This is a year before Borod. His character is a problem that I thought, or his character is somebody who I thought was a problem from the way the first half hour of the movie carries out. Right, because it feels very, you know, stereotype, cartoonish in a way that, you know, the book isn't, you know, not poking fun at this character, but like, it's just a, it's a tonal. There is a language. This feels, you know, you have the freeze frame thing of him getting punched by his dad. You know, it's a little over the top. It plays as this comedy, but it's the comedy of there's a way that Western entertainment had sort of come to humorously define Eastern Europe slash Russia slash, I know this is Ukraine, but like this kind of, this kind of guy who. you know, former Soviet, out of the Soviet Republic, there's this generation that goes through

the westernization of, you know, the former Soviet Union and learns through American culture, but like all the dumbest and worst American culture, which, like I said, it's like Kangol hat, track suit, gold chains, disco dancing, where everything looks like a bad music video. Like, you know, I don't think entourage was a thing by this point, or maybe if it had just become a thing, but like, feels like... No, entourage should already happen. Feels like he's, yeah, that's probably true. Okay, feels like he's learned about American culture through like entourage and like late seasons of the real world and like this sort of, right, right. All this sort of like the trashiest aspects of American culture.

And it's a way to sort of like make fun of that like simulacrum of culture that, that sort of exists there. And also at the same time, the early portions of this road trip that they're on, it's like, there's Alex who, like, speaks this garbled faux, like, a lot of 10-cent words that are imperfect substitutes for more accurate five-cent words, like that kind of a thing. He says repose instead of sleep. He says, you know what I mean? Like, that kind of a thing. more like he learned English from like a Chrysler commercial sure but like Alex is this ridiculous person and then like the grandfather who thinks he's blind but isn't blind but is their driver and the dog who is a vicious seeing eye bitch who is deranged and who like bears his teeth at Jonathan who is

afraid of dogs and the car is this sort of like very like picture in your head what I mean when I say, like, Eastern European jalopy, like, that's what, that's the car. It's like, putter, putter, putter, putter, putter, you know what I mean? Like, this all kind of thing. And, like, and the towns that they drive through at the beginning are these very sort of, like, like, depresso Eastern European imagery, these sort of, like, concrete blocks of buildings, and it's all sort of gray and sad. And it's like, oh, like, this is.

Is this the movie then? This sort of like goofy road trip where, you know, Fussy Jonathan with, and we'll talk about Jonathan a second because there's a lot to say of that character. But like Fussy Jonathan is like an odd fit with these sort of quirky characters in this puttering little car and they're going to go through like awful looking Eastern Europe and whatever. And then...

Where's a full suit and his nerd glasses the entire movie? So, okay, here's the third. about Elijah Wood as Jonathan. Elijah Wood already has pretty big eyes. Like, surprisingly, that he hasn't been in every Tim Burton movie. Because, like, Elijah Wood is a small little man. I've seen Elijah Wood in person one time, and he was at... You needed a magnifying glass.

He was at a bar, the very first neighborhood I ever lived in New York City, I lived in Carroll Gardens in Brooklyn. and he was at the sort of like neighborhood bar that I would frequent when I wanted to just like go get a bike to eat or whatever at this like on the outdoor patio and I saw him there and I said he was like three apples high which is the as tall as smurface and but just like sweet looking this you know just white t-shirt and jeans and just sort of very a nice man

but like he's a small man and he has a big face with big eyes and that's probably why he's a movie star you know what I mean like that's why he's you know has had the career that he is because whatever but he are so he already has big eyes the glasses they put him in are these oversized like impossibly round you know how they talk about like there is no such thing as a perfect circle that like you know what I mean like these are the exceptions to perfect circles of giant glasses that magnify his already big eyes so he's like 80% I anytime they do a shot of him

and it's because he's right he's the observer he's the one who like he everybody else is sort of taking up the action and he's watching and sometimes that feels like a little too perfect of a of a you know of symbolism and sometimes I think it works because

I think Elijah Wood's face is very expressive even when it's not doing much but it's also like he's supposed to be so perfectly tailored at every point to exentuate the black suit not just his awkwardness, but like the lack of worldliness of these other people in a way that just feels like base level.

So that's the first half hour of the movie. And I really am not jiving with it at all. And I'm like, this feels stupid. This feels condescending. This just also isn't fun. I don't want to be stuck in a car with these people with Alex, who is obnoxious and with his anti-Semitic grandfather who keeps mumbling things about like, I'm sick of taking Jews around to look at their heritage

or whatever. I'm sick of taking rich American Jews to, because that's their business, right? They are tour, their tour guides and the tours that they give are for rich American Jews to come to Eastern Europe and research their family history. And so I just don't want to be in the car with these people.

But I think ultimately the bug becomes the feature then because the movie then becomes more lyrical and more it takes a turn and the turn is mostly focused on the grandfather. Once you find out that the grandfather is more plugged into this story, once he finds out that the town is called Trockenbrode,

the town named on the photograph is Trakenbrood, he all of a sudden becomes more invested in taking Jonathan on this trip. And he really wants to help this guy find his family. And you start to wonder why. And there are things like when they're driving down and he sees, you know, you can see the moon in the daytime sometimes. and he sees the position of the moon and all of a sudden you can start to tell

he's navigating because the whole thing a lot of the thing is like oh they're lost they don't know where they're going they don't stop for directions they don't know how to find this town that may or may not even exist at this point because it's a Stettel town right you know what I mean like it's a former

they're in this area of Western Ukraine that I believe during the lead up to the war was part of Poland I think that's why it was Nazi occupied is because don't quote me here's the other thing watching this movie now in the middle of like the Russia-Ukraine conflict

I need to disclaimer that like not to like I hate dumb bitch gay culture where it's just like I'm so stupid and I don't know anything but I want to be on front street and that like I have limitations as to how much expertise I can speak on with

like the Russia-Ukraine situation right now and this movie calls for that when you watch it now you know I was very I too you know, I mean, like, I have a general sense of what's going on, but it also makes it. We're talking about a movie that's buried. This is not going to be one of our most popular episodes because people don't remember this movie. I would recommend people watch it. It's kind of, you know, sitting right there for a reexamination in modern times in that context by people who are, you know, scholars on the current war. First, a warning, though. Insert, Isabella Rossellini from Death Becumzer. First, a warning. Now a warning. When you go to watch this, if you go to watch this, don't watch it on the Roku channel and don't watch it on 2BTV,

because in both of those, they are both missing the subtitles. You can close caption the English. That you need to be able to follow the story. But the Russian, anything that is spoken in Russian is unsubtitled. And it took me a while, as Chris knows, I was texting him last night. And I said, the Russian is unsubtitled and I don't know whether it's a stylistic choice or not. And at some point so many scenes happen with exclusively Russian language that you know what's fake. Eventually you have

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I paid for the $3.99 rental on Amazon and then I got the subtitle. So like buyer beware, something's wrong with the 2B and Roku Channel version of this. I feel like I've heard this about other movies. Wouldn't surprise me. It's almost as if no one is protecting

the Warner Independent Library as we would. Yes. So anyway, back to the grandfather and navigating by the moon, though. I think that's the turning point of the movie for me, is when you realize that he's navigating by the moon because he remembers. Right. He has some type of story. And I think the first impulse is that he might have been a Nazi. Yes, the movie lets you sit in that place for a second.

Not likely what. And like, he might have been a Nazi and has some guilt about it. But I do think that's what Alex, but I think that's what Alex believes for a little while once, because Alex twigs to the fact that, like, grandfather has more memories of this place than he has let on before and that he has ever told them. And so I think Alex starts to wonder, because a lot of parts of this movie are, Alex is an imperfect translator. Alex translates maybe half of the things that get said to him back to Jonathan. So Jonathan, as an observer, is kind of only observing half of what we're even observing as a viewer of the movie. But so Alex at some point, you get the sense that, like, is worried because he has that scene with Jonathan later where he's like, my grandfather is a good man. And I think he's trying to convince Jonathan and also himself because at this point he thinks that his grandfather's past is that he was a Nazi in, you know, old. Because Alex is like thrown by this notion that comes from Jonathan's grandmother that, like, living in the Ukraine in this area of Western Ukraine that maybe it was Poland back then. they were very hostile to the Jews anyway.

And so, like, and Alex is like, really? Was it like that back then? Which feels a little bit like, wouldn't you know? Like, that hasn't really probably gone away. But anyway, blah, blah, blah, blah. What I'm saying is once we reach that point where there's more to know about grandfather and certainly by the point where we reach the old woman's house in this field, this vast field of sunflowers, that is so beautiful.

That shot of the field of sunflowers with the path leading up to the house and where you're far enough away that the laundry blowing in the wind looks maybe like a chorus of people sort of like singing. You know what I mean? Beautiful shot. Leah F. Schreiber, credit to Leah F. Schreiber, and we'll talk about him soon. We'll talk about the general visual vibe, too, especially if we talk about the trailer. I think the grandfather says some things as they're driving around in the car that I quoted because I want. wanted to, I think this is a very big linchpin of what made me start really loving this movie, is they, as they go further west, the land becomes more pastoral, there's a lot more greenery, these sort of like concrete blocks of buildings. And like you, you had initially seen like these very sort of like downtrodden people digging well and everything looks ruined, essentially. It's this sort of like, imagine in your head this sort of like Eastern European ruin porn that, you know, you know, that has been depicted in a lot of things.

That gives way to these sort of lush, green, open fields and trees and whatever. In the physical space as you move away from Russia. As you move away from Russia. And so Jonathan remarks, he says it's beautiful. And grandfather, in Russian, to Alex, says, tell him this is the most fertile land in Eastern Europe. He said, before the war, this was the most beautiful place in the world. And he talks about Odessa, which is the town. the city that they're from, he says,

They actually shot in Odessa. Tell him the sand on the beaches is more soft than a woman's hair, that Odessa is the perfect place to fall in love and start a family. And this is when Alex sort of looks at his grandfather and is like, there's something more than you're not saying. But it also is a statement of what this place was like before the war and what these, he doesn't say people, but you then connect that dot of.

This is what the people were also maybe like before the war, that they were, that this family, this Alex and his grandfather, the first thing you see of this family, the father is punching Alex in the face, right? The mother is this sort of, you know, very sort of like she's got the downtroddened, she's got the mustache and everything is sort of depicted in this cartoonishly, air quotes, ugly way, right? Brutal, ugly way. And you get that, and the movie is saying how, like, this is what the, this is what the, the inhumanity of this war, not to mention the Holocaust of it all, the aftermath of it is the ruination. Across generations, across, you know, across landscapes.

It ruins the land. It blights the land. It blights the, you know, the aesthetics as well as the people. It hardens these people, right? You know, and so you get to the house and the sunflower field that is not only sort of set off from everything, but you find out eventually that this woman who lives here, whose name is Lista, by the end of the, one of the last things she says is, is the war over yet. Yeah, she's so, she's remote and cut off and she doesn't even know.

She's cut herself off from everything, and it's like this oasis, it's, you know, magical realism almost, this kind of oasis where she has kept this town alive in boxes of mementos. And she has retained this sort of pastoral gorgeousness because she has sort of kept this place out of time and removed it from the sort of timeline of events that happen in Europe. So once I realized that that's what this movie was doing, the beginning part of the movie then feels like part of a timeline. And that the beginning part of the movie that I found so objectionable is telling part of that story too. And so by the end of the movie, I'm much more, even more so than like, not even forgiving

the part of the first part of the movie, but like knowing that that's an essential part. I also want to read, and then I'll let you talk because I know I've been filibustering. I just really, I ended up really, really feeling something for this movie, and I do want to get it out. No, I was very curious, as soon as you said that you enjoyed the movie, that I really did. So in Ebert's review, he says, and this is a thing that ends up really dovetailing with how I feel about the movie. So he says, everything is illuminated as a film that grows in reflection. The first time I saw it, I was hurtling down the tracks of a goofy ethnic comedy when suddenly we enter dark and dangerous territory.

I admired the film but did not sufficiently appreciate its arc. I went to see it again at the Toronto Film Festival, feeling that I had missed some notes, have been distracted by Jonathan's eyeglasses and other relative irrelevancements, quote, or parentheses, as Alex might say. The second time I was more aware of the journey Schreiber was taking us on and why it is necessary to begin where he begins in order to get where he's going. That, to me, is my experience of everything is eliminated and why I end up really, really liking it. You know, I think that a lot of that is true about the movie. I think I'm not quite on the same wavelength as you and Ebert in terms of how well I think it pulls it off. I do think that it is somewhat intentional.

I think that, I mean, like, it's a first time director, you know, those. And the last time director, he has not directed a feature since then. That, that, like, not perspective shift, but like the almost meta level of commenting on what you're watching. I think that's really hard to pull off, and I don't think the movie completely does, but I don't think that this is a bad movie by any stretch. This isn't a movie that I think should be essentially non-existent. And I don't think it's perfect, but it ends up being, I end up being far, far more out of its wavelength, and certainly I expected that I was going to be after that first half hour. I do understand people who might consider this movie to be too twee or, you know. Because I think it's also a difficult thing, especially for a first-time filmmaker, to pull off that this is indeed a fable.

If you unpack this in any type of way that thinks that this story is trying for realism, then you've missed the plot, but also like, you know, the fact that she's, you know, so removed from the world and essentially keeps these artifacts as the only thing to keep this town alive. She's a collector like Jonathan is a collector. Huh? I said she's a collector like Jonathan is a collector. It really becomes very symmetrical in that way. That parallel is very interesting. But also maybe too perfect, right? Like I could understand where people would think it's a little too neat.

Right. And there's something about film that is a much more literal, even when you're doing something fantastical. It's a much more literal, we as an audience, take information on a literal level in a way that we maybe don't in a book. that I think that there's just a lot to pull off that this movie does an admirable job but not a perfect job of doing.

How do you feel like it does with the Jonathan character as played by Elijah Wood? Maybe it's my limitations because I don't I don't know how interesting of a performer I think Elijah Wood is. I understand his casting and like his casting also kind of added to the, kind of expectation around this movie right like we talk all about he's the only star in this movie yeah

but it's also after the lord of the rings movies you know it seemed at least on paper like a cashing in of his as much as he's someone who doesn't really chase stardom but like yeah a way of cashing in on you know the success of that movie to well i want to talk about that being a launch pad for let's detour that for a second and then i want to give you into how you feel like the character then comes off because... I will say like I think because

the Jonathan character to me while you know the context around him and the things that he's discovering change throughout the story I don't think he changes very much I think it's smarter of the book for Jonathan to not be the protagonist

in the way that you know when you cast Elijah Wood in a movie he you know gets that kind of attention. But I just, I don't know, maybe it's a role more for a character actor than... Well, and the movie is very aware of Jonathan the character being, if not necessarily a cipher, Jonathan, the character being not ultimately an observer more than a protagonist. And I think, and this was the thing that Jonathan Saffron Foer, the author mentioned in that interview that I

watched, which is, we think we're being, we think that the journey we're being taken on. is Jonathan's journey. And it ends up being Alex's journey. That even in the fact that Jonathan is taking this trip to find out about the woman who he feels saved his grandfather from the Holocaust. Now that story ends up

being not quite exactly it. That ultimately Jonathan's grandfather had left for America the week before this massacre happens to find a place for them to live and then was going to send back for Augustine. And Augustine, they had married by this point. She was pregnant with their child.

And so, like, in a kind of roundabout metaphorical, symbolical way, she saved him in that he would not have made that trip to America, were it not for her. But I think Jonathan is maybe searching for a more literal savior of his family kind of thing. The person who ends up getting the sort of deep revelation about his family history ends up being Alex. you see by the end, where he and his father and his brother are all wearing yarmacus at the grave site that his grandfather now has a Jewish tombstone. And they, you know, there's now this very important and rich part of his family history that is now known to him, that is now, sorry, illuminated for him. And then he becomes the author of the book by the end of the movie.

He's already narrating it. So it's not like it's a surprise that he's the author of the book, but he's, but I just want to talk about Elijah Wood before we go back into Jonathan for half a second, because you're right in that, like, this is a cashing in on the Lord of the Rings. It's a really interesting career situation, though, where he films all three Lord of the Rings movies at the same time. So by the time the third one comes out at the end of 2003, it's been four years. I know there were like certain things where there were some things that were re-shot. They did a lot of reshoots for those movies, too. But for the grand majority of it, it's been four years since he filmed the majority of those movies, right? Right.

And so he doesn't really emerge for follow-ups to that until Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind in 2004. So in succession, he film, the movies that get released are, Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind Then in 2005 He's in three movies He's in Everything is illuminated He's in Sin City Playing this like serial killer

With like Not speaking role Serial killer with mouths for what eyes Once again Elijah Woods big old eyes Become a thing Isn't it right? He has like he's wearing the mirrored sunglasses

And when he takes them off They're like Or am I thinking of the Something like that Because there's a character in the Sandman The comics, the Sandman comics who has big sharp teeth for eyeballs. Maybe I'm conflating. But anyway, he's a serial killer with mirrored sunglasses. And then he's in the movie Green Street Hooligans with him and

which really doesn't exist. Baby Boy Charlie Hunnam, which I definitely watched and I think is pretty good actually. But anyway, although I don't think you would like it. But anyway, but like four movies and roles that go some really kind of interesting places for, far different from your Frodo Baggins, right? He doesn't go back and do another action franchise ever, right? I don't think he's ever done that. And, right? I mean, I don't think so.

Am I forgetting anything? I don't think I forget him. He's definitely someone who's done his own thing, and that thing has not been a whole lot of significant roles. Right. And so, well, this is what. I'm saying is, is I wish, and I know that, like, his career has, you know, took some, you know, twists and turns and, and that, like, there was a disillusionment, I think, with Hollywood,

but I wish he had gotten more of the portion of his career that existed in 2004 and 05. I liked, I liked where this was going in 05, as well. what I'm saying, this eternal sunshine, Sin City, everything is illuminated, lots of different types of things, sort of, you know, testing the waters, and I don't know, I'm fond of him in, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He does not seem like an asshole. Right. Um, that being said, I think that the role needs someone who's maybe a little more nuanced. than he is. I kind of think of him as somewhat of a broad person and like,

or a broad player. But, yeah, maybe I just can't put my finger on what is missing. Maybe it's just, it feels like to me the way that the character is presented in the movie maintains that level of, you know, almost sketchy, not sketchy as. in nefarious sketchy as in like sketch comedy throughout the whole thing. And that's partly because of Elisha Woods' performance. It feels like there's a bit that's not being dropped. Yeah.

What did you think of the performances of Alex and the grandfather? The grandfather is really good. He's really great, right? I thought so, too. Remind me that actor's name? Boris Leskin is the actor. He is a Russian actor. I don't note anything on his filmography.

Oh, he's apparently in the movie Cadillac Man, the Robin Williams movie Cadillac Man, playing Soviet husband. He's a cab driver in Vampires' Kiss. He's like small roles and things like Men in Black, right? And he died in only 2020. He died in February of 2020 at the age of 97. Wow. So, yeah, but a, you know, Soviet actor from, you know, the sort of the Red Curtain days.

And I think the thing that, like, the tonal shift of the movie, if the movie pulls it off to any degree, it's partly because of his performance, because he has this kind of grounding presence to something that could be very cloing. and very emotionally manipulative. That's one of my things about this movie is that I am not net negative on this movie partly because you can so clearly see the version of this movie that is so much worse. You can see the extremely loud

and incredibly close version of this movie that is very contrived and emotionally manipulative. And I think there's a few things maintaining the balance and one of them is his performance. And then there's Eugene Hutes, I imagine, with the Umelot, I believe we pronounce it, Heutz, who is a non-actor playing Alex?

He's a punk band singer from a band called Gogol Bordello, who are described as a gypsy punk. And when I say that, I should note that that is the name of the genre. I know there is controversy over whether the use of the term Gypsy, but apparently Gypsy punk is a style of music that crosses apparently Romani music, traditional Romani music with punk.

That is a performance that, again, is very indicative of my journey with this movie, where at the beginning of the movie, I'm like, this fucking guy, I can't handle it. And by the end of the movie, I'm really moved. by what he does. He also, there was one interview, or not interview, one review that I read that is like, he's kind of the spinning image of John Totoro, and that is accurate. There is

a, there's a young Totoro, especially when he takes off the Kangle, and he sort of has this very Barton Fink hairdo. I was going to say, where's his Barton Fink? Basically, yes. And then the final cast member that we should shout out is Larissa Lorette, who plays Lista, who plays the old woman who is really like talk about a linchpin of the movie like that is where it really all comes together for me and um i don't know i think she's wonderful so yeah i definitely figured i would end up probably liking this movie more than you but like as somebody who had read the book 20 years ago i know i know i know but so like so it was it so long ago that it doesn't really inform your viewing of it at all at this point?

I mean, it was definitely one of those things that as I'm watching the movie, I remember the experience of reading the book, whereas on my own, if you'd asked me about the book, I might have needed the refresher of the movie. So I wouldn't say it informed my viewing of the movie. It more so, as someone who has also read other four books, it really kind of brought more so it was informed by him as a writer and what his writing style is

and what some of his writing hang-ups are rather than this book itself. Sure. You mentioned in our outline the trailer for this movie, which I hadn't remembered. I watched it this morning. It has the Davajka song.

It has the Devachka song. Before Little Miss Sunshine. So, right. So the Davachka song, which is called How It Ends, is used in the, everything is illuminated trailer, which was a year before Little Miss Sunshine,

Devachka does the hybrid, it's Devachka and a composer. Who's the other composer for Little Miss Sunshine? Hold on a second. I forget. Because it's like a hybrid score. Give me one second. Type, type, type, type.

Clacky, clacky, clacky. Michael Donna, of course, from us who did the score for the piano. The piano. Michael Donna from piano, who won the score Oscar for Life of Pie. So it's Devachka and Michael Donna, and Devachka sort of deconstructs their own songs to, like, you can hear how it ends in the score to Little Miss Sunshine, although I'm not sure the song itself is ever actually used, Kwa itself. I think it might be briefly. Maybe.

Like maybe in the first montage where you meet all these characters? Perhaps. It's also used quite effectively in one of my favorites, so you think you can dance routines of all time, but that's beside the point. Shout out Neil Haskell, who is currently on tour with Hamilton. Anyway, yes. So you have a strong memory of that trailer being, like, very effective. I remember that trailer being very impressive. Yeah. And it being part of the anticipation around this movie. It has voiceover narration, which feels like such an artifact. It now feels like a very, very.

dated trailer. It does. It's amazing. We've talked about this a little bit before. It's amazing how instantly dated any trailer with voiceover narration is. And it's one of those things that, like, existed later than you think. Like, again, this is a 2005 movie, and you would think, like, and the voiceover narration makes it sound like an early 90s trailer because of that. I wonder if the Cloverfield teaser maybe killed it. Like, what is it that killed voiceover in trailers as a thing. I would love for somebody to do a deep, deep dive into that. I would read...

I would happily do it if anyone wants. Somebody give Chris File a bucket load of money to do a deep, deep dive, and talk to people to find out when that happened, because I would be so interested. That when interstitial title cards replaced voiceover narration, it would be amazing. You talk about something while I peruse my notes Because I took a lot of notes That's how you knew I liked this movie Is I took many pages of notes

We could transition into talking about Leah Schreiber Do it, his only feature film His only feature directed film He's directed some episodes of Ray Donovan The show that he had on show Lasted forever, yeah, showtime And it lasted for fucking ever Obviously, you know, the Academy

loves an actor-turn-director success story. However, you know, there was some expectation around this movie because Shriver was having a moment. This is actually the same year that he wins his Tony for Glenglery, Glenn Ross, playing, is it Richie Romano? Ricky Romano. Not Ray Romano. Oh, Richard Roma. Ricky Roma. That's right.

Not Romano. Ricky Roma. The same role that gets Pacino nominated for the film. version. Yeah. I think I had forgotten that he had won a Tony for that. He won a Tony. Yeah.

This is also around the time that my dad and I are walking through New York and we pass him and Naomi wants with a stroller with their baby. And my dad doesn't realize who they are until we pass them. And he's like, oh, wait. And I was like, don't you do it. They're walking their baby. Leave them alone. And he is an idiot teenager.

I saw them. I was waiting at one of the hotels in Toronto to do an interview for somebody else at TIF. And I was waiting in this hallway where, like, everybody who came in to do interviews was going into different rooms. And so, like, they were all passing by. And I was like, Lupita Njango and David O'Yello for, what was the movie about Queen of Cotway? The Queen of Cotway, yes. And I can't remember what Naomi and Leahf would have. have been there for. I think it was three generations. I think Naomi was there for three generations, which was called something else at that moment about Ray when I saw it there.

I know, but so I got to see them together, so that was nice. One of my favorite tidbits about Leah F. Schreiber, an actor who I mostly knew as the ex-boyfriend from walking and talking, and of course, Cotton-weary from screen. In 1996, a big year for Leo Schreiber, walking and talking and scream, both in the same year. Although he's barely in the first screen, right? He's only, like, in a shot where he's being interviewed. You only see him in, like, TV footage. In TV footage, and that it's screened, too.

It's almost, like, kind of miraculous that they still cast him in Scream 2. They must have had, I want... Carrie Waite. Do we know that there was a two-film plan for Scream? Because, like, it does feel in a lot of ways like there was. Just from the Cottonweary character. I don't know if I've ever, like, read a Kevin Williamson interview where he's talked about that. Because that casting, you're right, that casting is a casting that's aware of the fact that you're going to want to bring this guy back because, like, he wasn't a nobody.

He was known from indie films and theater at that point. So, but my favorite tidbit about Lee F. Schreiber is that he was, maybe still is, but certainly was for the longest time, the voiceover guy. for every ESPN documentary. Now, not the 30 for 30s. The 30 for 30s are a different thing. Or maybe it was HBO? It might have been, or maybe both. Maybe it's HBO sporting documentaries. But it's all of the sports docks that were produced by,

I think it maybe is HBO, were all part of this, like, it wasn't like specifically a series, but they were all sort of produced by the same production, essentially. And he did the voice of the voice over narration for all of them. So if you go back and you listen. And he doesn't have, especially when he gives his like narrator voice, it doesn't really sound like anybody. You know how sometimes you're listening to something. And you're like, who is this? This is somebody, isn't it? And it's like, and then you get into things like, Good Night Opie, where it's like, Hi, Angela Bassett. You know what I mean? Like I'd know that voice

anywhere. And sometimes it's like, what familiar British actor is this person? Like, Leav Schreiber's voice, even after you knew who he was, had such a perfectly unobtrusive voice over voice that, like, it truly was a shock once I realized it. And you almost have to, like, once you know it, close your eyes and just listen to the voice to, like, picture his face. but it's like one of the most like absolutely unobtrusive voice over voices in history. It's kind of amazing. What else did? Oh, the one line that I wrote down from the end of this movie that I wanted to see how it worked on you.

Because apparently it really worked on me because I wrote it down. When the woman is talking about how her sister had buried her wedding ring in the little jar by the river. And she's sort of wondering to herself, like, Why did she do that? Why did she tell me that I'm doing this in case? And she's like, what did she mean? What in case what? And Alex is sort of musing as to, you know, maybe in case, you know, and Jonathan is.

Maybe she wanted to sort of make sure that her story was told. And the woman whose name I'm going to keep forgetting and have to go back, Lista, says that it wasn't there. It's essentially she says, the ring is not. here because of us, we are here because of the ring. Like, essentially, it's funny that it's a ring because it's Elijah Wood and the whole journey is the ring. But essentially, it's, the ring is buried for the people to come find it, for them to then have that experience, for them to be there on that riverbank and in this, on that

land, and in this, where this Stedl once was, and to, you know, that it's, it's, It's sort of a takeoff on a very, you know, again, Lord of the Ringsy kind of a thing of, like, the journey as the destination kind of a thing. But I don't know. I thought it was, maybe I'm just being a real big sucker for like, you know, literary worded phrases. But I thought that was notable and I wrote it down. No, I mean, like, that's why you tell this story. And that it ultimately isn't. in that it's about getting Jonathan and getting Alex and getting grandfather to sort of, you know, be in this physical place.

I think this movie really values that idea of physical place. And that's why also it's a really, it's a heavy thing to watch now in 2023 when Ukraine is sort of going through the devastation of this war. And like once again, you know, history repeating itself or whatever. you get this thing that is going to echo traumatically through generations, no matter how it ends up. And we don't know how it's going to end up yet. But this is going to be yet another thing that is, you know, felt for generations on generations going forward. The people who, you know, will die and the architecture that will die and the land that will be scarred. And, you know.

The stories that can only be. told by the presence of a ring. Yeah. So it's like watching this thing in 2023 really hits, I think. And, you know, that sort of needs to be mentioned as well, I feel like. But, yeah, I'm glad we did this. This is a movie that we've had in our database for a while. And I've sort of been a little bit on, I think the only thing I ever really knew about it.

I knew it was based on a novel, but the only thing I really knew about it was like, Elijah Wood on the poster with, like, all the sunflowers. You know what I mean? This was the first movie we've done in a while that I was initially concerned we would have difficulty getting our hands on, honestly. Yeah. Well. Because it's kind of, because it's so forgotten. The properly subtitled version is a little bit more difficult to get your hands up that you would think.

Yeah. And I mean, part of the, I mean, it's the one-two punch of this is a movie that, was a Warner Independent movie that got such mild reviews and, like, a lot of the Warner Independent properties that, you know, have done well, like, before sunset, you know. Yeah. Oh, we've talked about the age of Warner Independent. Like, talk about a golden age of cinema. And this is, like, the peak of Warner Independent, too, because they do have, like, a kind of busy 2005. They have Good Night and Good Luck, which was a best picture nominee of.

among other different awards. Did that movie win zero Oscars? Good Night and Good Luck. Probably, yeah. No. No, wait, Clooney won for Siriano, of course. Really, really, Clooney won. Cluny won for Good Night and Good Luck in everything but name.

Right. But yes. Yeah, I think so. Because screenplay that year was Brokeback Mountain and Adapted and Crash. Crash. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Um, I haven't seen Good Night and Good Luck in a long time.

Not since that year. I have not. You would think that would be like, that's, is that a dad movie? Is Good Night and Good Luck a Dad movie? I think the thing that keeps it from being a dad movie is that it's so associated to post-9-11 politics. I, who am obsessed with like the movies of post-911 politics should maybe rewatch that movie very soon. That's maybe a thing you could pitch to somebody. Maybe. Well, I mean, I kind of sort of did talking about Dogville recently. What a great, by the way, if you haven't, listeners, go find Chris's piece on Dogville, which is really, really, really well done for, why am I blanking? Jesus Christ.

Why can't I think of the names of things anymore? Daily Beast. Where did I? Oh, I wrote it for the Daily Beast. The Daily Peace. Sorry, Kevin, Fallon. I love you. Special thanks to Kevin Fallon, who really helped shake.

that piece too because like listen I'm someone who gets in the weeds I was I like had whole sections about Thornton Wilder that got cut like I I did not know that until you just mentioned it but like does not surprise me that you had whole sections about Thornton Wilder but like it makes sense

like given the the aesthetics of that movie yeah also in 2005 March of the Penguins which wins the documentary feature yes Oscar did you see Did you ever see March of the Penguins?

That year. Yeah. Oh, everybody did. I didn't see that shit. Oh, everybody saw March of the Penguins, I thought. I didn't. I was like, it's penguins. I get it. Mostly, okay, I'm being very, very glib here, but mostly I cannot watch things where animals die. Oh, see. It's not like I seek out things where animals die, but like, I don't have that kind of trigger. I'm not watching it because there is, the fact that it is a documentary about animals, there is at least a 50-50, percent chance where there is an animal dying in it. And, like, I don't

know what it is about me. I'm not a super softie, but, like, I can't do it. It's like people who have no gag reflex. I'm like that, but with animal, like, I have no, I have no trigger for animals dying in movies. Like, that does not,

like, affect me whatsoever. Joe just, like, in his free time, mainline Sarah McLaughlin ASPCA commercial. Omores Pero. like fully down the back of my throat is how I live my life, apparently. They also have the Palestinian film Paradise Now, which I recently watched for 100 years, 100

snubs. That was a foreign language film nominee. These are Warner Independent movies of this year you're talking about. This is all of Warner 2005, so Warner Independent 2005. So they also had that movie The Jacket, which like I saw the jacket. I'm going to, I'm going to, I've had occasion to, with the news that Netflix is shuddering their DVD business, I have occasion to, if you are on the Netflix DVD plan, and I know there are some of you out there because I talk to you every once in a while, you are able to go into your account and look at your entire DVD rental history from back to the beginning.

And what I have done is I have screenshots- What Joe has done has rented the jacket four times a year. Well, so I, but I've screenshoted that first. like two years worth of rentals for me just so because if they take it away I want to have it preserved somewhere. The jacket was absolutely an early DVD rental

from Netflix for me. And I remember very little about it. It's one of those movies where reality is not what it seems. It sort of feels indebted to something like what's the Tim Robbins movie? Oh, Jacob's Ladder. Jacob's Ladder. It feels very indebted to Jacob's Ladder.

Doesn't the jacket have like the same twist to some other movie. Why do I remember that movie getting lumped in with something else? And it's like, here's why both of these movies suck. Also, by the way, they had the same twist. I think it was very similar to another movie of around that time. I think you're right, and I can't remember what it was.

But, so mid-aughts, early to mid-aughts indie movies, is a time period that I have a lot of fondness for, but maybe only because of the age that I was and the fact that Netflix was getting, like, not to credit Netflix, but like, was giving me access to so much

more than I ever had access to before. And I was also getting into things like writing about movies. So, like, all of that is a very sort of, like, golden-hued time in my memory. Because if you think about the movies themselves, it's kind of a mishmash of this sort of post Miramax, when Miramax sort of changed, like, not to like, whatever, credit, Hardyville Weinstein with anything. But like the way Miramax kind of changed the game for American indie films. And then that whole sort of decade that followed, there was a lot of opportunity to make a lot of indie movies. And a lot of them sort of, you look back and you're just like, maybe that wasn't much of anything. But there were all these movies. And like, so I'm watching

so you mentioned that everything is illuminated, was nominated for, or was recognized by the National Board of Review that year for special recognition. Special recognition. Special recognition. Excellence in filmmaking. Montgomery Burns. The Word Soup that we have talked about in the past. The C. Montgomery Burns Award for Outstanding Achievement in the Field of Excellence. This was before they started coming up with a top ten list of indie films, which is at least a cleaner way of describing that. So the movies that were recognized.

So this sort of goes to my point of the indie situation in the mid-aughts. So Breakfast on Pluto, Neil Jordan's Breakfast on Pluto, a movie I think we should do. maybe around Oppenheimer time because of Killian Murphy? You realize that would be very soon because we also have most of July play out. Well, we can do it in the aftermath of Oppenheimer then. Especially if he's a best actor contender. A South African movie called Cape of Good Hope that I have no memory of. The Craig Lucas movie, The Dying Gall, with Patricia Clarkson and

bisexuality. Campbell Scott and I want to say Peter Sarsgard. Yeah, there's gay shit in there, which is why I saw it. Everything has illuminated. Hustle and Flow, which ended up being an Oscar player. June Bug, which ended up being an Oscar player for Amy Adams. Matthew Vaughn's layer cake, which is essentially

like, what if Guy Ritchie, but not. Lord of War, the Nicholas Cage, the Andrew Nickel movie with Nicholas Cage, Lord of War, that I never saw. Rodrigo Garcia's Nine Lives, which I think is like something of an anthology movie,

loosely connected tales of this, like... Title alone, I believe you. Nine lines, but the cast, as many Rodrigo Garcia movies back then, was like, stacked with like Holly Hunter, Robin Wright, Amanda Seifred, Sissy Spaceic. Kathy Baker, your fave, Glenn Close,

Dakota Fanning's in it. Like, stacked, stacked cast. I remember almost nothing about the movie. That movie, the thing about my folks with Peter Falk and Paul Rises. which I never saw but I remember hearing about and very recent

this had Oscar Buzz's movie The Upside of Anger so like again a mishmash of a couple movies that made an impression hustle and flow did Junebug did

to some degree layer cake did and then some movies that made like a small impression on a small group of people like the upside of anger did and the dying gall

and breakfast on Pluto and everything is illuminated I would put in that and then like some movies that just, like, don't seem to have ever existed at all. And that, again, this golden-hued time in my, in my memory, that maybe wasn't quite so golden. The thing that I don't think people realize or remember or talk about with especially early days of Netflix discs is that, you know,

Blockbuster and Video Stores didn't used to have everything. No. Especially if you're trying to watch something, you know, from a smaller distributor, recent indie at the time. You're not necessarily going to find that at a video store. So Netflix discs did for like people you and I, people like you and I provide the sometimes the opportunity to see those things. This is before, you know, digital rentals. And similar to the way that, like, Amazon has made us nostalgic for the big box bookstores, like Borders and Barnes & Noble, which at one point were the villains that killed the mom and pop bookstores. Like, the streaming era has made us nostalgic for the Netflix disc era, which made us nostalgic for the Blockbuster video store era, which was the big, bad wolf that killed the mom and pop video stores, right? Because Blockbuster tried to do their own, like, disc service, too, to compete with Netflix.

And that's part of the time that they went on. Nobody has more nostalgia for Blockbuster video than me. Like, that was culture for me, was a trip to Blockbuster video. It was just close enough that when I became a teenager, I could walk to it. So it's also the, like, most notorious job that I applied for that I never got, that I still feel like it's an injustice. Wait, what? You've never talked about this to me.

You tried to get a job at Blockbuster, and they turned you down. I applied for a job at Blockbuster Video, and they hired somebody else. Fucking, you could, you lose her. They could have had all of this. They could have had the prestige of the future co-host of this had Oscar Buzz on their roster. But so, but like the thing about Blockbuster is sort of the thing about like what multiplexes became, which is they had a ton of shelf space. and you would get a whole wall of men in black. You know what I mean?

You'd get a whole wall of, I'm trying to think of what would have been like the late Armageddon, right? You know what I mean? And now the multiplexes are like if you have 20 walls and 19 of the walls are covered by a Disney product that no one cares about, but everyone apparently sees. Well, I do, whatever. We're not going to have the argument about how nobody cares about Marvel movies. Of course, people care about Marvel movies. But anyway. I know nobody that has seen.

Well, that's not true. Of course it's not true. I have not had anyone bring up in conversation the newest guardians of the galaxy. Are you willing to admit that you have maybe curated your life to make that the case? No, because, like, everyone at my day job knows what Marvel is. they consume Marvel, they consume Disney. Have any of them talked about Guardians of the Galaxy?

No. Have any of them talked about The Little Mermaid? I'm not going to deny that, like, we are in an ebb of the MCU. I will say, I'm going to end up seeing The Little Mermaid, and that's because my sister wants to see it. So, like, culturally, like, that movie

does have some sort of an impact. I'll watch that movie on an edible maybe. Maybe. So, but yeah, but your point being that Netflix DVD mailers happened at a time when there, like, there was an opportunity for it because blockbuster video became so blockbuster oriented that there was like increasingly vanishing space. Maybe that's a double negative or oxymoron, whatever, less and less shelf space for non-new releases or, you know what I mean, like that kind of a thing. So then all of a sudden Netflix discs come along and it really did like open

a door for a lot of indies of the, of the aughts to come flooding into my door. And somehow everything is illuminated was not one of them. But I'm glad, I'm glad I saw it now. I feel like I'm in a, I would not have appreciated maybe at as much of then as I do now. So happy for that. Good movie. Good movie. Good movie. Good movie.

Sure. For me. Sure. Yeah. But yeah, definitely valuable for conversation in all the ways that we... Spend the $4 to watch it and get the correct subtitles. Yeah. Tooby.

To be. I've been sticking up for 2B. I feel a little betrayed. I love watching something on 2B and then at the most inopportune moment getting an ad for some type of senior medication. Yep. Everything in the world is spying on us right now. Everything in the world is like,

you have a conversation about cheddar cheese. Guess what? You are going to open your phone and immediately see an ad for cheddar cheese. you are going to your YouTube ads are going to change. However, what are your ads not going to change for? Tobe.

They are still going to be selling you, a retirement community, and insurance. Can I tell you? They're never going to sell you the thing you had a conversation about 15 minutes ago. This is why Tooby is good. Tooby is not spying on us. I have recently had occasion where I have spent more, time with my parents watching television with my parents, watching my parents' television.

So they have cable TV, my parents. Your phone now thinks that you are 25 years older than you. My parents have MSNBC on all day. And then we'll do the like evening, Wheel of Fortune Jeopardy, Double Bill. And then rarely will go back to MSNBC in the evenings unless there's like, unless Trump's been charged with something. or we'll watch their like

Britcoms, you know what I mean? We'll watch their PBS, you know, shows about, you know, doctors in the British countryside solving mysteries or whatever. But the first part of the day, up through, like, Jeopardy, it really is, and this is a trite observation,

but also, like, this is terrestrial TV, so, like, it is not subject. Like, your cable box is one of the few things that is not listening to you and responding to you with Taylor Day. ads, right? You're still beholden to whatever companies have bought airtime on ABC or MSNBC. The concentration with which everything is a prescription drug ad nowadays is... And then paper towels.

It's... I would kill for a paper towels commercial. Daytime TV, they call them soap operas for a reason. It used to be all ads for home cleaning products and whatever. It is wall to wall pharmaceuticals all day every day. It's, and I, the reason that I had occasion to be spending more time with my parents watching their television was I was going through a health thing that required me to essentially like be on the lower floor, lower floor of their flat. So I was already sort of- I was going to say non-stop pharmaceutical ads is not good.

Not a good space for this guy. So it was, and like, it's, and they just sort of like, and because they're required to like, again, these are not novel observations. like the the side effects thing and the like everything is and now like the older you get the other thing that you don't realize is the older you get the more that those ads become for things that like you are currently taking so then it's just like I don't want to know have you ever had a pain in your neck I don't want to know the risks of like unexpected death that come with like my regular run of the mill like you know pill I take for whatever so like again trite whatever but while All I'm saying is, like, you would be, I would kill for a Wayfair ad for a sectional couch that I have already bought. You know what I mean? Like, at the very least, tailored ads don't freak me out the way that, like, television ads now do. Like, tailored ads try to sell you things that you've already bought on Amazon.

That's annoying and dumb, but, like, whatever. I would take that any day over, like, television telling me, oh, oh, oh, Zempic, which, by the way. Wow. O'Reilly should also sue them for copyright infringement. Anyway. Anyway, anyway, anyway. Anyway, this is all, this has all been our ad for Tooby. That's how we got to talking about this.

We have had a journey. What have we got a sponsorship with Tooby? That'd be great. What did we say, Or is it Morning Star Veggie Burgers and Tooby TV bring you this at Oscar buzz. Get at us sponsors. What could TV? Morning Star, Tooby TV, and Best. better help.

Somebody. Because we're a podcast. Other podcasts get fucking Casper mattresses and bomba socks, and I'm going to have a freezer full of fucking Morning Star veggie burgers that I will never eat. Like that's going to be, that will be the fate. No, no, no, no. Okay, this is where we talk about food this episode. The Morningstar Buffalo Chicken ones are good.

I believe you. No, trust me, you should have one. They're good. They stay crispy. They, yeah, they're yummy. I believe you. All right. You don't believe me.

Anyway, we are sponsored by Tobe, unofficially, but don't watch everything as illuminated on it. You will not have a great experience because you won't get the full movie. But do check out this movie, even if you have quibbles, such as I do. Yes, all right. Joe, we're coming up on 250 episodes. Mother of mercy. I didn't put this in the outline, but it did occur to me. we should hype up that we are hitting another fucking milestone.

Quarter of the way to a thousand. Wow. Only 750 short episodes to go before we hit a thousand, Chris. What would we do if we hit a thousand episodes? We would do cats again. Okay. All right. That is our promise to you, dear listener.

If we hit a thousand episodes, we're doing cats again. Please, at that point, it's not that we would run out of movies, but at that point, we would have to, you know, have an update on some of these movies. Well, we'll be recording from the bottom of the ocean after the seas have risen past our borders. All right. Depresso, depresso, depresso. Why don't you explain to our listeners what the IMDB game is? Why don't I? All right.

Every week we end our episodes with the IMDB game where we challenge each other with the name of an actor or actress and try and guess the top. titles that IMDB says they are most known for. If any of those titles are television, voice-only performances, or non-acting credits, we mentioned that up front. After two wrong guesses, we get the remaining titles release years as a clue, and if that is not enough, it just becomes a free-for-all-of-hints. Yeah. Yeah.

How are we doing this today? Are you giving or guessing first? I'll give first. All right. So, Leav Schreiber, our friendly, of Schreiber on his directing tab was just everything is illuminated and then as you mentioned episodes of

Ray Donovan one of the stars of Ray Donovan who kept getting Emmy nominations to a point where I was just like enough already was Mr. John Voigt who we have done before but not since 2018

since our Hyde Park on Hudson episode was the last time we did John Voigt. I wonder why we did John Voight for oh because he also played FDR. There we go. So there's no television, there's no voice performances. So this is four feature films for John Voight. Midnight Cowboy.

Correct. Ali. Incorrect, even though he was Oscar nominated. I wonder if Pearl Harbor is there. Anaconda. Yes, Anaconda. Very well done. Yes.

I'll just say Pearl Harbor. Not Pearl Harbor. All right. So your two remaining years are 1972 and 1985. Okay. The rare known for were nothing...

85 runaway train. There's nothing more recent than 97 on this known for, which is kind of interesting. That's interesting. What did you say? Sorry, I missed it. Runaway train.

Runaway train. Correct is your 1988. I need to watch that movie because every time I see those Oscar nominations. I'm like, but it's a movie called Runaway Train. It's him and Eric Roberts, right? Yes. Yeah. That's wild.

It just sounds like some bad action movie, and I'm sure it was. I'm sure it's good. Yeah. Eric Roberts, Oscar nominee for Runaway Train. That just sounds like a Razzie nominee. One of the three accredited screenwriters on Runaway Train, Akira

Kurosawa. I wonder if that's because it's based on... Based on something. A Kurosawa film? Yes, based It's based on a screenplay by Akira Kurosawa. So I imagine it's sort of like living is... Sure, sure, sure, yeah, yeah, yeah. Wild. Living, also a bad action movie.

Double feature, Chris, please double feature living and runaway train next time. Girl, Bill Nye is here, and I am living. Okay, is 72 the champ? No, it is not the champ. Champ get up. Chip, get up. No. With right-wing lunatic

Rick Schroeder, yeah. Right-wing lunatic John Voight. Well, also, yeah, that's true. That's good point. Okay, 72. It's a very famous movie for him. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm just not getting there.

He's maybe the, probably the second lead, I would imagine. Because I think he has another Oscar nomination. Maybe this was his first Oscar. Oscar nomination? He's won an Oscar, but it's not for this movie. Oh, wait, what did he win for? He won for Coming Home in 78. That's right. Him and Jane. Great movie. Never saw it. Is that Hal Ashby? Hal Ashby, baby. That movie is not as great of a movie in someone else's hands, but... Oh, it looks like he is first build in this. The person I thought was first build, is second build. But they're both above the title. God.

Is it, he's in a war? No, is it deliverance? It is deliverance. Yeah. Which I've never seen. I think I get it. I've seen parts of it on television. I've never seen it front to, I mean, it's become so notorious for the, the, the, the, the rape scene and also the banjo playing scene.

Like, it's, I imagine, because it was pretty well reviewed when it was like, that was a, like, do I need to see deliverance or can we move on? I'll probably watch it if I catch it at the beginning on television. I have become a TCM bitch and an FX movies, the bitch, now that I have people again. If you have any DVR capacity, you need to constantly be checking the TCM. I do. Because the shit that they play at 2am is always the good stuff. They were showing, I think it was it last summer or maybe two summers ago, they were doing Almodovar movies. that, like, some of them at the time were, like, super hard to...

I've got a bunch of stuff that I just, like, set to record and now exist on my DVR. But also, it's just fun to, like, catch something on the fly on television and let the cable grid make your decision for you, which is how I watched North by Northwest the other day, which was... Good choice. I had never seen that one before, and it's so good. Carrie Grant Hoddy. Yeah. All right. So, for you, I've been too nice to you lately.

Mm-hmm. I'm going to not in agree, even though I don't think that's correct, but okay. We mentioned that this motion picture came out the year that Leo Schreiber won his Tony for Glenn Glary, Glenn Ross. The role that he played netted a Oscar nomination for Al Pacino. I'm not giving you Al Pacino. I am giving the original U.S. performer of that role to you, who originated the role on Broadway, and I believe Steppenwolf, Mr. Joe Montan. Ah, that makes sense.

No television, no voice performances. All right. Joe Montania, well, speaking of El Pacino, Godfather, Three. Correct. All right. No television. So no criminal minds. Okay.

Is he on criminal minds? Why did I think it was like NCIS? No, it was he, Mandy Patinkin, as is his want, started criminal minds and then left after like two years. so then Joe Montagnan stepped in. And so no voice, so no fat Tony on the Sopranos, on the Simpsons. No. All right.

Joey Jojo Montania. God. He's such a like, is, okay, we were talking about this yesterday on our group chat, and I love this movie, and I know it's an ensemble, so probably not, but is it Forget Paris? It's not Forget Paris. Katie, you better have watched He's one of the ensemble and Forget Paris A canonical

Chris and Joe Love it movie Yeah, I love Forget Paris Look how much a lime ways No, it's not Forget Paris Unfortunately Okay You're getting your years though Why? What else did I get wrong?

Oh wait, I thought you got something wrong No, I guess not No, it was just Godfather 3 in that one Joe Montana God, this is hard He's very rarely a lead is the thing Usually a bureaucrat Yeah, or like

Is he in, I think he's in body of evidence I'm going to guess body of evidence He is in body of evidence But that is an incorrect case I love that now because of You must remember this Everybody's watching the same trashy 90s sex thrillers

I still have to catch up to body of evidence And I really want to. Because when I worked at my former employer, I went through, because one of the things that did well for us, traffic-wise, was like smut. So I decided my version of doing that was just like every week writing about a different 90s sex thriller. And so one of them was indecent proposal. One of them was body of evidence. So it's like all the stuff that Karina's doing now on, you must remember this. I'm like, yeah, I went through like, this was my 2018.

You don't have to catch up to these movies. Watching on all this stuff. It's great. All right, so now I've gotten two wrong, so now you've got to give me ears. Yes, your years are 1993, 1994, and 1998, also known for it that doesn't go past the 90s. I should have guessed 93 earlier. It's searching for Bobby Fisher. I know.

You love that movie. I do, and he's very good in that movie. Yeah, searching for Bobby Fisher is correct. All right, 94 and 98. Yes. Is he the lead in either? Um, I would guarantee you he is first build in the 94 movie. Let me confirm that. I partly picked this. No, he is not first built. He's second build. But, uh, I partly built to like a child. No. But you're not far off. An animal? No. Okay. There is, there are both in this movie. Okay. 94. I partly picked this because it's awesome. This is on someone's known for it.

Is it a comedy? Sure. Yes. Oh, no. Is it like an action movie that's so dumb that it's comedic? No, it's intentionally a comedy, but it's... Bad. Stupid.

It's very bad. It's very dumb. Is it like a... Dumb in a way that people probably... I'm surprised the Internet hasn't really sunk its hooks in this movie, but people will eventually love this movie. Is it, like, based on a pre-existing property? Huh? Is it based on a pre-existing property of some sort?

I think yes, actually, but not. Nobody knows it as that. Hold on. Okay. I think this might be a remake. Oh, God. No. No, I don't think it is any of that.

Okay. You can currently watch this movie on 2B, and everyone should. Well, hopefully the subtitles are correct on that one. All right. Comedy, but it's bad. original idea there is a child and an animal in it. Very famous screenwriter.

Oh. Oscar winner? No. Very famous screenwriter. Screenwriter who also directed but did not direct this movie. Okay. The cast of this movie is somewhat wild. Give me some others.

Uh, Joe Pantaliano. I'm sure that they are, like, working together. Uh-huh. Cynthia Nixon and Lara Flint Boyle. What in the world? It is, it is very funny that these people are all in this movie. I don't know this movie at all with that cast. Um, this, I mean, you could say that this movie was targeted towards children.

This is definitely a post-home-alone type. Is it a problem child movie? No, but keep thinking in that vein. Dennis the Menace? No. Keep thinking in that vein. So like a rascally kid? A rascally very young kid?

A baby. Yes. Is it like Baby's Day Out or something like that? It's Baby's Day Out. I could have that fucking wild Babies Day Out. I love that Baby's Day Out is not show Monday. Jesus Christ.

Baby's Day Out. Cynthia Nixon, in Baby's Day Out. Sure, sure. Everybody, before you're allowed to watch season two event just like that. In some bad movies. Before you're allowed to watch Season 2 event just like that, you all have to go out and watch Baby's Day Out and report back. In the Sex and the City universe.

The 98 movie, I've never seen, so I couldn't tell you if you would know this as a Joe Montania movie, but it is an ensemble movie from a very famous, very canceled director who at the time did a lot of ensemble movies. Brett Ratner. No. Brian Singer. No. James Tobac. No. Woody Allen.

Yes. I can't believe I got to four before I got to Woody Allen in terms of famously canceled directors. So his 98 movie was Celebrity? Yes. Celebrity is the answer. I don't remember Joe Montagnia in Celebrity, but I definitely saw Celebrity. But that was back when I'm almost certain I only watched Celebrity because I thought there was a chance that Leonardo DiCaprio might be naked in it. Before I realized that, Woody Allen doesn't do that.

Woody Allen is not the person to go to if you want your teen heartthrob boy to take his clothes off. because you're 17 years old and horny. Alas. Alas. Okay. That was so fucking hard, Chris. Jesus Christ. I gave you anaconda and deliverance,

and you gave me Baby's Day Out and the 20th lead from celebrity. He's known for includes a movie you love. Sure, a movie that I love. Actually, I kind of also stick up for the godfather part three. so um to rewatch it because i i had done the first two earlier in the year and uh it is timing it's in a different universe than the other two ones in terms of level of quality but it's still good copula at that time because he's making movies like tucker and bram stoker's dracula those movies are bananas like you should watch tucker you didn't think we were going to get much

of this episode. You thought this episode was going to be... This was a good episode. It's a good discussion. This is a good episode. Good episode. All right. But that is it. If you want more this had Oscar Buzz, you can check out the Tumblr at this had oscarbuzz. Please also follow us on Twitter at Hasker underscore buzz and on Instagram at This Had Oscar Buzz. Joe, where can the listeners find more of you? You can find me on Twitter and letterboxed both at Joe Reed. Reed spelled R-E-I-D. And I am on Twitter and Letterbox at Crispy File. That's F-E-I-L. Did I say Letterbox, too?

Twitter and Letterbox, whatever. We'd like to thank Kyle Cummings for his fantastic artwork and Dave Gonzalez and Kevin Nevis for their technical guidance. Please remember to rate, like, and review us on Spotify, Apple Podcast, Google Play, Stitcher, wherever else you get your podcasts. A five-star review in particular really helps us out with Apple Podcasts. visibility. So please be our seeing-eye bitches with a nice review. That's all for this week. We hope

you'll be back next week for more buzz. Hizah! In a few weeks, 250. Thank you.