This Had Oscar Buzz - 246 – First Cow

Episode Date: July 10, 2023

Though this episode brings talk of the gloom of covid lockdown, we still get to talk about one of our favorite films of the last several years. The story of two men who become friends in the harshness of the 19th century Pacific Northwest and start a business by stealing the milk of the area’s … Continue reading "246 – First Cow"

Uh-oh, wrong house. No, the right house. I didn't get that! We want to talk to Marilyn Hacks. I'm from Canada. I'm from Canada water. good lord give me another i'll give you six ingots for that last one i taste london in this game we have to take what we can when the taking is good seems dangerous so is anything worth doing

a royal cow until she barely produces a thing some people can't imagine being stolen from and so he's one of those Hello and welcome to the This Had Oscar Buzz podcast, the only podcast that acts like a bitch because sometimes that's all we have to hold on to. Every week on This Had Oscar Buzz, we'll be talking about a different movie that once upon a time had Lofty Academy Award aspirations, but for some reason or another, it all went wrong. The Oscar hopes died and we are here to perform the autopsy. I'm your host, Joe Reed. I'm here, as always, with my tasty oily cake. Chris File, hello, Chris. I'm a donut. It is a donut. It's a donut. It's a donut. I mean, maybe you could say it's a vignay, but... Do we think it's one of those things where, like, what are they, like, what are some of the things that they, like, on top chef try and, like, josh up? And it's like... It's a deconstructed donut. Sort of.

Or, like, there are, like, certain, like, culinary terms where it's just, like, you're just talking about, like, whatever. This doesn't have anything to do with cooking, but I thought this earlier today when I was reading, um, Asteroid City Reviews. And, like, and it applies to first cow, actually. because, and I, by the way, I'm as guilty of this as anybody talking about, like, Academy ratio, right? Like, something was filmed in Academy ratio and it's presented in Academy ratio.

And I'm like, what if I just started to use Academy ratio to describe squares in general and just be like, I'm going to, like, I've got to be... Like, oh my God, I've got to walk through Times Academy ratio today instead of, like, Times Square or something. It's a square.

A square is a one-to-one aspect ratio. Oh, right. Xavier Dilan's mommy. All right. But come on. It's a, for all intents and purposes, it's a square. Technically a rectangle. Oh, my God.

We're going to fight. It's a square. Did you watch Project Runway of the year where Christopher Paloo went on that rant about blood orange? It's like that kind of blood orange. This is actually a gorgeous color. Blood orange. She's so pretentious.

Shut up. It's red. Blood orange. Where he was like, like blood orange it's fucking red in my recent project runway rewatch i'm realizing oh i stuck with project runway way longer than i thought i did and i bailed way sooner than i thought yeah um okay uh this is this is in the future we're recording an episode like a month in the future can we yeah have you watched the premiere of the of the 20th season no no i'm so bogged down in other things i got to get to it uh what i'm just

going to say it's stressful and also the show is very very different now than what i'm used to but sure it's stressful uh i'll pivot quickly by saying you can't just casually bring up top chef right now i'm in a very vulnerable place not only because we have to bid a jia to bad malakshmi though we can go watch her other show i know um underwhelming season that should have been i i i stalled out like several episodes ago and i'm going to probably catch up at some point, but, like, I don't know. And I did that with Buda's last season, so, like, I wonder if it's Buddha, even though I like Buddha, too, but I just feel like Buddha winning two seasons in a row, literally two seasons

in a row. Yeah. His honest, unbeatable competence isn't maybe always the best TV. It's, I don't know. Also, everybody felt. It added to the feeling of this season feeling underwhelming. for what it was, you know. Also, following the show

on social media as I had fallen, like, increasingly behind and everybody kind of fell in love with Victoire, even though the first few episodes, I'm like, she's a disaster, and I cannot, and I, like, I really wanted her to go in those first few episodes, where she was just, like, so

stubborn and just like, well, I'm not going to cook that. And it's just like, well, then don't be on the show. She becomes a really, really interesting character. Okay. All right. We'll see. I don't know. I may or may not go back. Yeah, it's a bummer that Padma's leaving, though.

Yeah. I don't know how they're going to fill that void. They might not. Like, I mean, they have to. They have to keep going. They'll probably have, you know, maybe, like, Tom and Gail step up. Oh, sure. They'll try.

Which is probably better than just throwing someone to the wolves who. Katie Lee Joel's phone rings. All right. My friend Katie and her husband, William. Still one of my favorite anecdotes. All right. So we are dipping into, this is not our first movie from the COVID year, but this is our first movie that, like, hits really close to home in terms of, like, this is a movie that is kind of intimately, emotionally associated with COVID, even though it, you, it, like, premiered at festivals. safely in 2019.

But, like, this was a movie First Cow that so many people were like, oh, that was the last movie I saw in theaters before it's the first movie I watched in lockdown. Oh, interesting. I watched it. Well, I was supposed to have a press screening locally the week that things were leading into lockdown

and they canceled it. Yeah. And I was like, hey, you know, this is still, it will be shut down for three weeks to rain. Yes. And I, you know, was in touch with the press agent. I was like, hey, would it be possible to get a link? I know they don't normally send links.

Would it be possible? And I got one. And I watched it the first day. I watched it that first Saturday morning of, well, this is our life for the next three weeks. I feel like I saw it at some point, and I want to say it was over the summer of 2020. Film Society of Lincoln Center started making movies available to purchase a virtual ticket for. They held out on this movie doing the immediate virtual jump, as A-24 did, and then over the summer they did get available. Like, it wasn't like standard VOD.

You couldn't get it on Amazon or iTunes. But like at Lincoln Center, like, as you would if you were going to see it at the Walter Reed or whatever, you bought a ticket, you got an online portal. And you watched it there. So that's how I watched that. And I thought it was so lovely. I thought it was so wonderful. And it was enough ahead of everything else. And it was enough of, like, the big critical fave that, like, there were very few things that were, like, that knew what the release strategy was going to be for a while there, right?

studios and even indie studios were really kind of formulating their plans through the summer because there were as you said like there were still these sort of like glimmers of like well maybe by September like maybe by like that TIF didn't get like whatever like because it didn't get canceled right it just got made like very very virtual they like had the max capacity that you could have a people be in a place for every screening but that's like 50 people. But I remember it was a few months, a couple months where like you, me and Katie were still on group chats being like, you think they're going to cancel it. Like there were still these like, maybe we'll just get past this wave and we'll flatten the curve and everything will be like.

Also the time of festivals being like, well, we'll host outdoor screenings and we'll do drive-ins and, you know. So for a while there was kind of just first cow. and when the sort of the 2020 awards year started to lay out in front of people and I think you got a lot of people who were like, oh my God, like there could be some really interesting indies who have a shot this year that you would never, because like in any normal year, no matter how great the reviews of a Kelly Rikart movie like First Cow were, you, anybody. with any kind of, like, rationality would be like, that's wonderful.

The Oscars are never going to go for it, because it's too... Only one of her movies, as we were talking about before we started. Only one of her movies has made a million dollars at the box office, which is wild. It is. It's what... Say which movie it is, which... It's certain women. It makes a certain amount of sense.

None of her movies have gotten any kind of Oscar nominations, right? No. Yeah. So she truly is like, one of the great unsung filmmakers who everybody knows, right? She's sort of unsung in the mainstream. Nobody, like, my mom and dad don't know who Kelly Riker is. But, like, everybody who follows movies and writes about movies on the level that we do know who Kelly Rackard is.

She became a, if she wasn't already a household name to us, to people like us, parentheses, whatever, not pejorative. I'm not, I'm not shading us. Parentheses side eye. If it wasn't by Wendy and Lucy, it was definitely by Meeks cutoff, right? Like, by meek's cutoff, because by then she had made three movies, Old Joy was her first, and then Wendy and Lucy. River of Grass was her first. Oh, my God, I always forget River of Grass, thank you. Which was even, like, less well-known than Old Joy.

There's a 20-year gap between those movies, too. Yeah. But by Meeks cutoff, she's making her second movie at that point with Michelle Williams. It's a, the scope has gotten bigger. It's playing the big festivals. I saw Meeks cut off at the New York Film Festival. And she's getting kind of a vibe, right? Her movies are starting to coalesce in terms of theme, the Pacific Northwest thing,

the Michelle Williams thing, you know, the humans commuting with nature kind of thing. And she's becoming a filmmaker who people can kind of get a handle on. And by that point, she becomes a real big fave with, you know, the indie folk. And so by the time first cow comes out, I think there's a lot of silver lining for people being like, well, the bad news, is there's a global pandemic that has shut down everything, including movie theaters, and we can't go anywhere, and we can't do anything. The bright side is, maybe we can get Kelly Riker at a goddamn Oscar nomination by this point. And that's sort of the story of this movie through the lens of awards.

And that's what we'll be talking about in this episode, which makes for kind of a really rich and interesting Oscar story, despite the COVID of it all. So I'm excited to talk about it. Also, I love this movie. What did I text? I was watching. I was just like, he's just such a nice man referring to John McGarro's character. Cookie Figowitz.

Cookie Figowitz. Also, being able to see this movie in a theater after all of this felt like such a relief as well, I have to say. Yeah, I got to figure out how I'm going to see this thing on a big screen at some point in my life. I mean, Kelly Reichardt, you know, retrospectives are at there now because she has amassed such a substantial career. Yeah. And you have seen her most recent movie showing up. I still haven't. My favorite movie of the year so far, showing up.

Is that true? Wow. Yes, that is true. Did you see it? Made me feel seen in such a visceral way that I could, my options were to laugh or cry. Um, it, I think among her many talents, I think Kelly Reichart is maybe the best purveyor of two things. Um, comfort. I think, uh, when she, she taps into how comfort feels and like what comforts us as people spiritually, physically, um, you know, whether it's through relationships or, communing with nature or donuts.

A taste of home. Presenting our art to the world. But Kelly Reichart is also the best purveyor of human behavior in terms of people who are being assholes but not trying to be assholes. Casual cruelty that in some of her movies

can be very funny and sometimes can be immensely. immensely painful in something like Wendy and Lucy I would say showing up is pretty damn funny but so many people especially Hong Chow in like one of

the opening scenes it's like they're not trying to be an asshole but through the lens of the protagonists these people are just being assholes and like casual asholishness

yes that just becomes very, very funny. And I think Kelly Reichart, you know, portrays that all very, very well. Showing up was at Cannes last year, right? And kind of didn't get much of anything. It was very, very muted response. And that was it until release this spring, I think. Yeah.

But it was one of those movies where I was like, I was kind of hoping that it's, it's, I am slowly but surely learning every year. We're learning. We're evolving people. Learning not to put all of my eggs in the basket of a movie that I'm excited for getting a Cannes response that is thrilling. Because sometimes... Well, that's the last day of Cannes, when most of the press is gone. Circumstantially... Circumstance makes a big difference with a lot of, you know, reception to Cannes. And I can't always rule something out just because something felt muted over there. and I'm learning that lesson more and more.

I'm excited to get into First Cow. There's a lot that we can talk about. Of course, baby boy John McGarrow, who I love. We'll talk about the whole Kelly Reichert thing. We'll talk about the 2020 of it all. There's a lot going on. National Border Review comes into play. I have a game for us.

We can talk about the Gotham Awards and the Indy Spirit. so there's a lot going on. But first, Chris. Is the game like some version of, you know, the lemonade stand game that you can play online where we have to go to market and make and sell donuts? I'm just going to make you play Oregon Trail is what I'm going to do. Yeah. Welcome to Meeks Cut Off.

You must board the river. Set up a donut stand somewhere along the Oregon Trail. Okay. You're lost. Go find your dog. Right, exactly. exactly right you're in love with

Kristen Stewart figure it out yeah man in the grocery store has caught you stealing that fucking guy in Wendy and Lucy last time I

well I finally rewatch Wendy and Lucy because Wendy and Lucy I thought was one of those movies that I was like I can't go through that experience again because like animals in danger

for whatever reason just can't do it in movies and I'm not that kind of softy but when I rewatch it I was like this fucking guy I'm gonna jump through the screen and I'm gonna fucking kill this little grocery store clerk, little fucking bitch.

Watch Wendy and Lucy. You'll get mad with me, too. He did not have to do all that. I haven't seen Wendy and Lucy since 2008, so I'm excited. Excited is the wrong word. At some point, I'm going to rewatch that movie. The lesson of Wendy and Lucy is if you see someone shoplifting, no, you didn't. You mind your goddamn business.

All right, Chris. I'm going to set you up for a 60-second plot. description for First Cow. But first, I'm going to lay out the particulars. We are talking about the 2020 film First Cow, directed by Kelly Rikart, written by Jonathan Raymond and Kelly Rikart, starring John McGarrow, Orion Lee, Toby Jones. This is our fifth Toby Jones, so the next one gets a game. Ewan Bremner, Scott Shepard, Gary Farmer, Lily Gladstone, heard of her, and Alia

Shock Hat as Modern Hiking Girl. That's A woman with dog. Frame story, Sally is Alia Shokhats name. This premiered, as I said earlier, August 30th, 2019 at the Telleride

Film Festival in 2019, then went on to play the New York Film Festival and Berlin before then opening on everybody say yikes with me, March 6th, 2020. Stuff was happened.

and then we'll talk about it. All right, Chris, I'm going to bring up my stopwatch. You can take a few more seconds to prepare to give a 60-second plot description of first cow. Are you ready? Sure. Begin now. All right, Alia Shawcat finds two skeletons in the woods.

We hop back in time about like 200 years, I think, and we meet Cookie Figowitz, who is leading a trapper group, and he is cooking for them. He's basically in an old-timey service industry, and they treat him like shit. He meets a naked man in the woods named King Lou, and then they become friends, but then they separate and, you know, King Lou goes away.

But then they meet again when Cookie Figuits is in a town and they go in a bar, there's a bar fight, and cookie has to hold a baby. It's so fucking cute. And then they're like, you know what? We could have a life together and we're going to do all of this. But then there's a, like, rich English trader that comes to town and he brings a cow with it. And they steal her milk and they go to market and they make. make some donuts and then they get really super popular.

And then the trader's like, hey, make a cloth food tea. This is so good. And they get in with the trader and then they realize that they're stealing the milk and then they try to kill Cookie and Lou. They get separated and then they come back together and they die in the woods and Aliya Shawcat finds them 200 years later. Bab boom, five seconds over. Not bad.

Not bad. You know what? Finest film of 2020 in that, you know, very kind of rudimentary story that's all about the crushing and isolating blows of capitalism and how the best that we can do is find someone to endure it with. The thing about this movie is with almost all of the Kelly Rikart movies that I've seen, and I still have not seen showing up, as I mentioned, nor old joy, nor, her debut movie, but of the ones that I have seen,

I had, by the point I was going to see first cow, I kind of knew that, like, I think all of Kelly Rikert's movies are good. I like some maybe better than others. I think night moves is maybe the weakest, but even night moves. It's like, it's not a bad movie. But even with my faves of Kelly Rikerts,

I had kind of sort of gotten in the rhythm of, they're just movies I really, really respect, even if sometimes they are a little bit of work. You know, Meeks cutoff is a great movie. That's a little bit of work. You know what I mean? It's an endurance test. It's supposed to be.

You're supposed to sort of feel that, you know, the strain of the length of their journey and all of that. Wendy and Lucy is emotionally hard. Certain women, I think, by its structure, is a little bit up and down because it's, you know, sort of vignetti. but I've liked all of them. And so I think my expectation with First Cow is I'm going to like this movie. I'm going to really respect this movie. This will probably be somewhere in my top 20. And, you know, it'll be great.

And I watched First Cow and I was like, oh, no, I love this movie. Like something about this movie for whatever reason. And like, I'm sure it has to do with me being a total sap for like human kindness. Because it genuinely, it's that Cookie and King Lou, first of all, have this, like, really adorable domestic rapport with each other where, like, they live in the same shack and they make their donuts and they have a business plan and they're kind of, you know. Old timey food truck? Yeah, but like they're run by two rows. Let's get, let's get, you know, platonically married and start a business. together and we'll live in the same shack. And it's like, and it's just very sweet. And then

the scenes where cookie goes and illicitly milks this cow and is just very sweet to this cow, I'll talk about, well, I'll talk about it now. One of the things that I love about first cow, this is how, this is what happens with me, Chris, is I sort of like Russian nesting doll my way into tangents and then I have to like back out of it to like get back to my original point. I'll talk about the cow in a second. The thing about first cow is that I walk out of that movie and I'm like, well, I love it. I have this heart connection to a Kelly Riker movie for the first time and it's really, really kind of thrilling. And so as this year goes along, and it's funny because I think the only movie that exceeded it on my top 10 was the movie

that kind of guaranteed that it didn't get an Oscar push is Minari, because Minari was the other A-24 movie that really got- A-24 said, we only have money for one movie. Well, sometimes it'd be like that. Probably didn't care and didn't want to do any interviews or anything. Well, and ultimately it was the right call because, like, they managed to get pretty far with Monari, which is good. And I love Minari.

I think Minari's a wonderful movie. But so my thing with the... the scenes with the cow is Cookie so sort of tender with this cow and kind of like relates to this cow like they've both sort of ended up in this Oregon territory somehow. I think at one point somebody asks Cookie how he ended up in the Oregon territory and he's like kind of like, I don't know, you know what I mean? It just sort of like, it just sort of happened that way and he like ended up there. When he first meets her, he's like, I'm sorry about your husband who died. Well, that's the thing, is this cow, this titular first cow, ends up making this journey from wherever they brought her from.

And along the way, her mate, her bull died, and her calf died. And so she's the only cow in Oregon. And haven't we all been there? And so, cookies, like, talking to the cow and being, like, as you said, like, I'm sorry your calf died. I'm sorry your husband died. I'm sorry you're all alone. And this cow is like, and it's. is sort of, you know, to get milk out of this cow, he's sort of putting her at ease, right?

Like, you know, cows are as subject to anxiety as the rest of us, again, been there. And it's just these really lovely scenes, but what I love and respect about First Cow is, you never got to the point for as much as, you know, like, and people will, like, meme shit about anything. You never got to the point where, like, people who loved First Cow were like, oh, my God, this cow is everything. Oh, my God. Like, you know. First of all, put some respect on her name.

The actress is Evie, the Cow. She was memed by A-24, and yes, in the way that they make shit annoying sometimes. But that was A-24. And first, like, I think the fact that I didn't know the cow's name is crucial. Because it's not like Kelly Reichert makes this movie to, like, anthropomorphize and center the cow, right? This is a movie about people. And ultimately, I respect that there was a way to make this movie that, like, maybe center the cow a little bit more and, like, major movie a little bit more commercial. And, like, God, like, all do, you know, love and respect to movies like EO and whatever, who which are like, you know, center the animal.

EO couldn't not center the animal. But you know what I mean? Like, an animal, Jenny the donkey. Jenny the donkey is a perfect example, right? I'm not giving A-24 a pass for not being annoying online, though. I'm not saying 824. I'm saying Kelly Rikart. All respect to Evie's performance.

We respect to Evie. But it's nice that there's that the movie stays on the side of we're going to make this like these interactions between Cookie and the cow. She is still very much a cow. She is not, you know. Those scenes are about cookie, right? They are about, you know, this guy sort of like getting out his own anxieties and his own sort of, you know, troubles by talking to this cow.

and it's really lovely, and it's a character moment for him. And I just think he's a very nice man in very, uh, brutal times. And I don't know. Significantly brutal times. Because like, like I mentioned, Kelly Reichart is one of the greatest purveyors of comfort, but she, in doing so, she shows us the absence of comfort too. Like the most crushing thing in this movie is that like young man waiting in line for his donut. And then this rich man like bustles past him and gets.

his place in line and he doesn't get his donut. They run out of donuts for the day and he's just like silently stricken and has to come back the next day and hope that he can get his oily cake. And it's heavily implied that that kid, that spurned kid, is the one who ends up killing them in the woods. We don't see it. We see a cookie runs out of, you know, runs out of gas and He's got to take a break, and King Lou lies down next to him, and they're like, that's okay. It's going to be okay. We're just going to, like, you know, hide out here and take a nap, and we'll be fine. And then it cuts to black, and, of course, we remember.

Well, and cookie's also nursing a head injury. Yeah, cookies in rough shape. And so then it cuts to black, and we remember the skeletons at the beginning, and we're like, oh. But, like, cut into those last few scenes, they kept, they keep cutting back to this kid who got, you know, booted out a line. And he's got his rifle and he's sort of following him in the woods. And the implication is that he's ultimately the one who finds them and either shoots them himself or, you know, blows the whistle on them and gets Toby Jones and his henchmen to get them. So it's, I guess, maybe there's a little bit of a parable about, like, you know, respect the continuity of the line or else there are festering consequences that will happen. Well, I mean, you know, as much as the creature comforts of this movie are so exquisite, you know, watching all of the fried slash baked goods that they make together is immense food porn and this is friendship cinema.

But also at the same time, I think Kelly Reichard is showing all of these characters as a place in a system that even though she's depicting something 200 years ago, it remains very true today. You know, Lou and Cookie are these little guys. You could call them small businesses or something. And their only way to get ahead is to cheat, is to, you know, break the law. They can't abide by what the system tells them they have to do to get ahead. And because of doing that, they're putting themselves in a precarious situation. Well, there's that moment where Cookie and King Lou are walking through the woods. And they're sort of, I think they're going through.

King had set traps for squirrels or something like that, right? And they're clearing the traps. And he says something to the point, to the effect of history isn't here yet. History hasn't reached these parts yet. And it essentially is like, oh, I wrote it down. Sorry. History isn't here yet. It's coming, but we got here early this time.

Maybe this time we can be ready for it. We can take it on our own terms. And I think there's so much of this movie that talks about how, like, Cookie and King Lou operate on, like, in the cracks of this society that hasn't quite formed yet, hasn't quite solidified yet. It's still, they're able to do what they can do, and they're able to make the money they can make because there is only one cow in these parts. They're able to steal the milk.

There is no fence around this cow. I think it's very important that the last shot we see the cow, it's surrounded by a fence because now, you know, we have reached, you know, we've passed the point where we can get away with something before people know are smart enough to know to keep their cow behind a fence. They're able to. Smart enough to know or hoarding resources. Well, sure. Six of one, half dozen of another. But that's the thing, is before those resources can be hoarded, before the rich people can, you know, cordon off this land and divide it up and develop it and buy it and whatever, that these two guys are able to operate in the margins and to make these little oily cakes and sell a taste of home and take advantage of the fact that there's nobody else who can do this right now, nobody else who can provide this little taste of comfort. And there is a ticking clock on that.

At some point, more people will come, more resources will come, more cows will come, and they're not going to be able to have that advantage anymore. And there's something about the fact that that's almost the only way that people who don't have money and land and privilege and whatever can get ahead in this life is to get ahead of history enough that you can find those little cracks in the system. before the system firms up. And it's a really interesting, like for as much as this is a beautifully photographed movie and is about nice people and tasty oily, oily cakes. It's also like a really smart and interesting movie about frontier times that can be applied to, you know, 200 years of history going forward. So it's a really smart movie and it's a really good movie.

I like it. I like it, too. Great movie. It also has a sweet angel boy, John Morgaro, much like Evie, the cow. I, too, can only, my anxiety can only be assuaged by John McGarro whispering to me in the night. John McGarro is an actor with an interesting history, because I'm trying to think of, like, the first things that I would have ever seen him in. And, like, I remember he was in the box, 2009's The Box, the Richard Kelly movie. He's in Carol.

He looks like a real scary little creep in that movie. And he's, you know, lurking outside of people's windows and staring at people at parties and doing the whole Robert Blake in, what's the David Lynch movie where he shows up at Bill Pullman's, at the party with Bill Pullman. And he's like, I'm already at your house. Is that Lost Highway? Lost Highway. Yes, thank you. What else? What do you know John McGarro from?

Carol, baby? Well, he's the one that, you know, tries to get with Therese, and she's like, I'm a lesbian. He's like, that's cool. That's cool, baby. That's cool. It's very handsome in that movie. 2015's a good year for him. It's Carol and the Big Short, and he's got a pretty big role in the Big Short, actually.

Have you seen Past Lives yet? No, God. It's not in Buffalo yet. I'm so mad. Yeah. I can't wait. I super can't wait. Soon.

I'm so excited for it. He was also on Orange's the New Black for a while. He was What's Her Face's fiancé. Did you watch Orange's the New Black? For like maybe three seasons. He was Lorna's fiancé, and he was very sweet in that. And then more recently, he was the thoroughly hilarious but also unwell flashback version of Silvio in the Many

Saints of Newark doing something else in that movie. Did not watch that movie. He is also in showing up and he's very good in it. This movie though is such an interesting showcase for him for this like character actor who is hard to peg down even in a

character actor way that like this is just not the type of performer that gets a showcase like this. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And he's so He's really, like, from the very beginning, when you watch him with the fur trappers who he's sort of embedded with, and he's their cook, and they, they range from, like, benign acceptance of him to, like, outright loathing. Like, nobody really likes him in this little troupe. Like, he's too soft for this world. Ah, I know. And, like, you really, really sympathize with him for that. And then he makes it to town. And he's just at this little saloon or whatever, and there's a bar fight. And they immediately hand him a baby so that they can all go be men and fight.

Because there's this one guy who, like, is getting absolutely savaged by this other guy at the bar, like getting, like, made fun of to, like, the most extreme degree. And this guy is just, like, carrying a bassinet with a baby. And he's like, hold on a second. I got to take care of business. And he hands cookie the baby. The superior illusion flound of the frontier time. Yeah. And then he says, bitch, I'm from Chicago. I will fuck you up. And he like crunches this guy. He might have actually been from Chicago. Possibly so. And then. And so you just. But Lou shows up in time. Well, first of all, he's clothed now. In an entirely different, like, vibe. And like you can tell that he got away because he had killed like a Russian captive or something.

thing, and he was hostage at the time. But he's in, like, a dandy little hat. Yes. He looks very handsome. Yep. And Orion Lee is such an interesting foil as, like, the other part of this twosome in this movie. Because he's never, like, smarmy or sleazy, but he presents a character that, huh, was that? He's an operator.

He sort of, he like. He is. He is. He knows. He's more savvy. Yeah, he's smarter than Cookie is. Yeah. But you never get the sense that he's trying to manipulate Cookie or use Cookie.

No. Like, it's a really nice partnership. I think it's hard to pull off, especially in this atmosphere, in this period. I think it's really hard to pull off that, like, slickness and not appear villainous in any way. And, like, you always trust his bond with Cookie. Um, yeah, Orion Lee's performance is interesting. And then so Toby Jones enters the picture as a very Toby Jones character. The chief factor, right? He's the sort of, he's the big wig. You can tell he's the one with money. He's got the biggest house and the fanciest clothes. And he's hosting this, you know, captain who is in town, this army captain. And he's, you know, he wants to. Bringing him the news of fashion.

Right. The Paris, yeah, what are the Paris trends? What are the Paris trends? And he gets a taste of the oily cake because he hears, like, it's the scuttlebutt around town that like it's the big thing of that week or whatever that the oily cakes are delicious. And so he goes and he tastes one. And he has no idea that this oily cake that he is snacking on was made with the pilfered milk from his cow. And when you see him later, because then he, you know, know, asks Cookie if he knows how to make a klafutti, and then can you come over and can you make me a klafutti because I'm hosting this captain and I want to, you know, show off essentially. A million roses at Toby Jones's pronunciation of klafutti. I will pronounce it the exact same way because it's wonderful. It is fancy schmance. And so when we see that scene, when we show up to Chief Factor's house, and he's sort of pompously holding forth on the subject of, well, this is why it's not a bad thing to beat your underlings because then it'll convince the other underlings that they should work harder to avoid

the beatings. And sometimes it's even preferable to kill one of your workers because then it'll really motivate the other workers. And he's just so amoral and so pompous. And he's also like sort of lording over his, what he thinks is, this high knowledge of Paris fashion and this he fancies himself a very worldly person and yet at the same time does not know enough to know that when he's eating something like a donut or when he's like so impressed by something like a clafutee that those things can only be made with milk and there's nowhere else that this guy could be getting milk than from your damn cow fuck face and so like he thinks he's so smart and he's so, you know, it's this classic portrait of pompous authority

that, and he's hosting, he's got these native peoples in his home, who he's also trying to show off for, but also condescend to. And this is where Lily Gladstone shows up. And she's kind of translating and of course he's trying because the captain Well she's his wife He's married Oh sorry I think I missed that

Okay so it's her family who's over So he's trying It's also all of this detail comes to you In this like single shot That's just revolving around this room Which is like exquisitely staged But like it's you know A certain type of propulsiveness

That it's like blink and you miss any of those details well on the captain who's also not like not a great person but he also at least he has some actual knowledge of the world because he's actually been to some of these places and he knows and he knows that at some point that beaver fur is going to go out of style and so like maybe like let's keep let's pump the brakes on the beaver fur because at some point and Toby Jones is like there will always be more beaver fur because there will always be more beavers and we can you know use and abuse these resources as much as we want to. And Lily Gladstone is translating to who I imagine is her father and who makes the point of just being like, and you can tell when they're talking to each other, that

like, because it's not subtitled, but you can, you kind of get the vibe that they're sort of like Toby Jones, what an asshole. But the thing that she translates is that her father, the guy who I assume is her father says, we're always so confused that the white people, you know, kill the beaver for their fur and for whatever, but none of them eat the tails.

And the tails are so delicious and yet, yad, yad, yada. And he's kind of making a joke at Toby Jones's expense, right? Which is, you know, you people have no idea of the actual value of these resources that you are, you know, consuming the way you are. and you're a fool, essentially. And yet he still is the guy with the most power and the guy with the, you know, the house. And ultimately, he only ever finds out that cookies the one who's stealing milk from his cow

when he's, like, practically caught red-handed. You know what I mean? So, and then it all starts to fall apart. So, like, I think that's a fascinating character that Toby Jones plays very, very well. So, it's a very good movie. I love this. movie so much.

Is this your favorite Kelly Rackard movie? It's my favorite Kelly Rickart movie. I mean, would I say it's the best? Maybe, maybe not. I mean, certain women has really grown on me over the years in a way that I just

really think encompasses everything that Kelly Rikart has in her stable. I think that movie's incredibly funny. It is. It is so heartbreaking. I think, you know, she has this relationship, including First Cow, with the works of Jonathan Raymond, that include, you know, Wendy and Lucy. Wendy and Lucy, I'm glad I rewatched because it, for a while, felt so untouchable to me because, like, it was just such a painful first watch. Sure.

But I don't know. I don't know. I abstain on saying what I think her best is, because she's still, as much as, like, you know, Michelle Williams has given quotes about how she has to, like, teach to get health insurance and all of that, like, you know, she has a hard time getting funding for her movies, but at the same time, I don't think her career is anywhere near over. I hope that, like... Yeah. Yeah, I think her best movie could still be in her. I think I absolutely think so. I don't think she's... showing any signs of slowing down in terms of artistic ability. So this movie...

Have you seen Old Joy? No, it's like high on my list of Netflix movies that I'm going to get on disc before discs go away. I do really feel like, well, you can watch it on Criterion Channel, I'm pretty sure. Yeah, but you know, I have a plan with the disc. I feel like Old Joy is maybe the quintessential Kelly Reichart movie for people who don't like Kelly Reichart movies and that it's like everything that they say to like roll their eyes at her movies is like right there in this movie it's just like two friends going on a road

trip to go to some hot springs and then going home and it's like an hour and 15 minutes long and it is so textually texture texture not text you know textured texturally yeah exquisite it is you know when i say that she's like a director of comfort like that movie's so much so. Um, it's, it's also friendship cinema. Yeah. Um, I think you'll like that movie a lot. Nice. So, uh, first cow was named the best film of 2020 by the New York film critic circle. And it was also placed on the top 10 films of the year by the National Board of Review, a list that is very, like, says kind of a lot about what the 2020 awards race was and where people, where they were pulling movies from. So that list, it's the first cow, which is a movie that had played the

2019 festivals and opened in the spring. The 40-year-old version, which was a hit at Sundance in 2020, and in any other year would have made the NBR top 10 indies and would have been crowded out by bigger studio stuff in the top 10. And so very cool that it gets to be part of the main top 10. And interestingly, the only Netflix movie in that top 10. Yeah, that is interesting.

Considering Netflix was just like paying $20 million for movies left and right. Well, I mean, their best movie, because they do the top 10 and then best film. Their best film was Defive Bloods. Oh, right. That's right, because they list that separately. You're right. But also, like, Meng didn't show up and Chicago 7 did. show up on that uptown yeah um judas and the black messiah which is one of the latest

movies to open that year like didn't open until february of 2021 with the extended year uh the midnight sky netflix movie um oh wait was that netflix why did i think that was amazon forget everything i just no midnight i think so right wasn't it midnight sky one of the worst movies of the year for covid it was my last it was my last place movie when i when i ranked all the Oscar nominees from that year. That movie is a deuce. Minari, which I loved. News of the World, which I kind of liked

more than I probably more than it, I don't want to say more than it deserved, but like I think a lot of people were like snooze of the world more alike, but like I That movie wasn't released in the COVID year we would be talking about it on this podcast. Oh, that's definitely true.

But I liked it. I still liked it. No Man, which of course goes on to win Best Picture. Promising Young Woman, which goes on to win best original screenplay and is also a picture and director nominee. Soul, which is like a classic COVID year movie where like I remember

watching that movie. I remember loving that movie. I remember being moved to tears by that movie because that movie really hit the nerve with me in terms of like, there was a while there in that COVID year where I'm like, well, I waited too long to do anything and now the world

has ended and it's just too late. And like, Soul hit that nerve pretty severely. So I remember like really loving it and I have not given a thought to that movie in the last three years probably. Yeah, because it's not a good movie. It is a good movie I think. I just haven't thought about it. I think I stick up for soul but like I fully admit that it like has slipped out of my head in a way that something like Luca hasn't. Like Luca has stayed with me. And then Sound of Metal which is another Best Picture nominee which I think is a very good movie.

So, tangentially to this NBR top 10 placement, I've made a game for you, Chris. So I'm calling this game Worst Cow, which is sort of an imprecise title, but it's basically... Oh, tomatoes, tomatoes, tomatoes. Right. Well, if you didn't like that pun, get ready, because there's a lot in your future. So I have created a game where I am describing the title of a movie. All of these movies were on the NBR Top Ten. of their respective year, I have, I will describe to you the plot of this movie that has been

cowified in one way or another. It has, it is a plot of a movie that has been, uh, infiltrated with cows. And you have to give me what the title of this movie is, uh, the cow, the cow version of the title. So for example, I've written down a couple of examples. If I said that, uh, A group of four cows get together and reminisce their carefree childhood at summer camp where one of them fell in love with Devon Sawa. What movie am I talking about? You're talking about cow and then? Cow and then. See, so you get it.

Right. So, all right. So I don't need to explain it anymore. You get it. All right. I have ten questions for you. I think you're going to do better. Now that you're getting that right away.

tells me you're going to do well of this. Okay. Are you ready to play Worst Cow? Moo. Exactly. Okay. A 1941 John Ford film about a family of Welsh mining cows who dream of giving their young cabs

a better life. Cow green was my valley. Cow green was my valley. Correct. Okay. Next one. A 1967 John Schlesinger film based on the Thomas Hardy novel

about a headstrong cow in Victorian England who inherits her uncle's farm and is determined to run it herself despite the incredulity of the bulls around her. Far from the madding cowed? Far from the madding cows, but yes, sure. It doesn't have to be quite that, exactly, yes, far from the madding cows.

All right, next one. A cow in the United States Army must go upriver in Vietnam to dispatch a colonel who has gone mad cow. Apocalypse cow Apocalypse cow Very good Okay next one

1954 Stanley Donnan musical Where a bull in 19th century Oregon Brings Home the cow he just married And his six brothers all decide they want to marry cows of their own And they go and seek out the most well-endowed ones Seven Brides for Seven Cows No What would make a cow seem particularly well-endowed?

A large bell around their neck. No, like anatomically. Utters. Yeah. Seven brides for seven udders. Seven brides for seven udders. Very good, Chris. All right.

Next one. In the deep south during the Great Depression, three cows escape from a chain gang and go on the run, embarking on a strange odyssey where they encounter many peculiar cows. Oh, brother where art cow? Oh, brother where art cow. Correct. Next one.

A 2010 British independent film about a happily married couple of cows and their unhappily married cow friend, who is kind of a disaster in all facets of her life, even though their smug happiness is kind of unbearable for their friend. An utter year? Another year. Yes, Mike Lee's an utter year. Very good.

You are very good at this game. Kind of, even better than I expected. Okay. 1958 film, where Elizabeth Taylor plays a cow who was clomp, clomp, clomping as fast as she can to capture the attentions of her alcoholic ex-joc husband, who has no sexual interest in her for reasons. Wait. Sorry, go back. 1958 film where Elizabeth Taylor

plays a cow who is clomp clomp clom plumping as fast as she can to capture the attentions of her alcoholic ex-joc husband who has no sexual interest in her for reasons Cat on a hot tin hoof

cat on a hot tin hoof is correct you are killing this game I am as proud of you as I've ever been okay another English indie film This one is about a woman who provides abortions in the 1950s, and perhaps also illicitly prepares her patients a perfectly prepared dinner afterwards. Abortions with dinner.

Perhaps a perfectly seared dinner afterwards. Vila Drake? Close. I'm going to give you one other shot at it. But you are right down the precipice. Vera steak. Vera Steak is the actual correct answer. Another Mike Lee film, Vera Steak.

All right, next one. The bovine residents of South Yorkshire have fallen on hard financial times, so to make ends meet, they decide to put on an amateur strip show. The Full Moon Tea? No, but I love that attempt at it. I'm going to give you another shot. The male bovine residents of South Yorkshire have fallen on hard times. The Bull Monty.

The Bull Monty is correct. All right. Last question. Last entry. An attack of conscience moves a successful cow agent to change the way he does business. An epiphany that leaves him with only one milk-producing client, but the romantic devotion of another cow whose weird little calf idolizes him. Okay. This is Jerry Muguire.

Not what I had, but again, I like where you're thinking. Give it another shot. Steery McGuire? What? Steery McGuire? No, but you're so close. Not Jerry Maguire, but... Jerry Maguire.

No. Let's see. Derry McGuire? Dairy McGuire is absolutely correct. The correct answer that I was looking for is Derry McGuire. That's the quiz. That's the game. You went 10 for 10.

It's very impressive. I hope you appreciate it. My respect for you, waned with each. I love you. It's all I was looking for, Chris. That's all I was looking for was to lose as much respect as possible in the course of that game. All right. Really, I feel like this is just our, we were so bored during COVID that,

that I feel like this was just bringing up what our text messages probably would have been. Probably true, yes, yeah. So this movie made $101,000 domestically at the box office, which honestly, like, good for first cow. To have only done that limited release for like a week. That's pretty good. Yeah, it's not bad.

I think it made enough overseas to maybe crack a million worldwide. But, yeah, not so much over here. I mean, please, we were paying $20 to watch fucking Onward at this point. This movie probably did okay on VOT. We were paying, we would pay $20 to watch anything if we hadn't seen it before. Well, I mean, there were enough things that were on free streaming that we did okay without it. But yes, I did not pay for Onward is what I'm getting at. Nor I, but still, you get well.

I did eventually watch it, but it was when it came on to Disney Plus. Okay. So I wanted, I mentioned this earlier. So even, because there were, I do remember, there were definitely inklings. And the fact that First Cow showed up on a lot of the early critics awards stuff that the New York film critics and National Border Review, there was definitely a lot of talk as to like, is First Cow? Like, maybe the best picture frontrunner. I do remember people were actually sort of like banding that about. For like two seconds, especially after New York.

made that choice what i mean like good on new york for making that call what does really feel like it could have been possible would have been an adapted screenplay nomination yes like would have highly deserved to especially female directors getting screenplay nominations when you know it's their directing that we usually cherish but like i mean first cow we've pointed out reasons why this is a great screenplay um yeah so uh 824 went with Minari instead, which had played the Sundance Film Festival in January. I remember that was another one where people were like, this is a really good movie that a lot of people should see. And I think there was a sense of it would be really great if we could keep this movie afloat to get an Oscar nomination or two down the road. And then the longer the year went, the more I think confidence 824 got in the idea that they could really make a push. for this movie and sort of take the, you know, the more sparse field for movies in 2020 and really do something with it. And to their credit, they did it to the tune of best picture

nomination, best director nomination, best actor nomination. They win supporting actress. It's like, it's a really, really well-done campaign for Minare. So good for A-24 there. where did you you were a Minari fan right yes yes I thought so yeah I think at the time I would have said I would have voted for Minari of the Best Picture nominees

it was definitely my I mean it was my number one of the year so yeah the other A24 movies that year they had they were co-producer or co-distributor on the Rocks and Boy State even though those two movies were definitely seen as Apple TV Plus movies more so than they were 824 movies movies. Then there was also St. Maude, which was a really good. That one ended up on the NBR

independent films list. And I really, really enjoyed that movie. I thought that was very good. And then that was it. Like, it was a really sort of, you know, obviously a limited slate for A24 that year, but they kind of made the most of it. And had my two favorite movies of 2020. So, like, that's not goddamn bad. What else? Let's talk about the Gotham Awards. We don't really talk about the Gotham Awards a lot. They come very, very early in the award season.

This past year, they announced their nominees in October, which I don't care how many screeners you've seen. Like, it's obnoxious to announce your nominees in October. I'm sorry, it just is. Yes, but they're focusing on independent films. So it's like a lot of the movies that they nominate, it helps. helps people watch them. Like, you know, it helps, you know, platform a lot of these movies. Absolutely.

And very good. And their taste is generally really good. That being said, this year they're nominating Netflix and Amazon movies. Sure. Yeah. So first cow ends up with five Gotham nominations. It doesn't win anything, but it gets five nominations. It is nominated for Best Feature, which goes to Nomadland.

Also nominated were The Assistant, which I believe was another one that got released before the pandemic started, right? premiered at the same telluritis first cow right but it got released in theaters i think even like in february i'm pretty sure um never rarely sometimes always which is a movie that did very well on that award season and i didn't really love it also didn't really get a chance to platform right uh and then the relic which might have been oversold to me a little bit um the horror movie the relic but ultimately was pretty good i thought um i never saw it because i only heard negative things about it. Oh, see, I thought I only heard positive things. So I was a little bit

oversold on it for some reason. Interesting. Magaro gets nominated for Best Actor. Riz Ahmed for Sound of Metal wins. And he goes on to get a nomination at the Oscars. Chadwick Bozeman is nominated for Ma Rainey's Black Bottom, and we all know how that all turned out in terms of the Oscars, assuming that Best Actor was going to go posthumously to him, and it did not work out that way. The Gotham's were the only ones to nominate Jude Law for The Nest, which still, I mean, we're going to do The Nest at some point for this podcast, but still baffles me that kind of across the board, the Jude Law is a two-time Oscar nominee for Talaton, Mr. Ripley, and Cold Mountain, and has had a lot of roles recently where lesser actors giving lesser performances have gotten awards

runs for like, oh, this guy still got it, you know what I mean? You're, I guess he's certainly not like an old, grizzled Nick Noltean warrior or anything like that, but like Jude Law has given some really good Anna Karenina, for example, a movie that was definitely on Oscars radar. I'm like, you can't tell me that people who have given worse performances than Jude Law and Anna Karenina have gotten nominations, you know what I mean? Yeah, I'll be really excited to rewatch The Nest because that's such a good movie. Maybe we'll, I mean, so many COVID episodes, but if the Sean Dirkin movie does indeed open this year, maybe that'll be a good time.

Did you end up watching Dead Ringers, by the way? I haven't finished it. The Rachel Weiss. Sean Dirkin's episodes of Dead Ringers are so fucking atmospherically dreadful, and I mean that as a compliment, like the dread is just seeping through the screen. It's such a good job, and they're so horrifying. Like, it's so, I always talk about how Sean Durkin, if he ever makes a proper horror movie, will, like, make the greatest horror movie ever because his instincts for horror in non-horror properties are so good. Dead Ringers is another perfect example of that. It'll be interesting to see if he brings any of that to the Iron Claw, which is not really, like, that's a, that's a tragic story.

That's a story about, you know, a wrestling family where a bunch of the sons met, you know, sad, tragic ends. But that's not really, it doesn't really lend itself to horror imagery. knows. He's a very talented filmmaker. Who knows? And then also Jesse Plemons was nominated by The Gotham's, your boyfriend Jesse Plemons, for, I'm thinking of ending things. We're very happy together. Was nominated for Best Screenplay,

which was won by both the 40-year-old version and 14. Orion Lee got nominated for Best Breakthrough actor, which Kingsley Benedere won for One Night in Miami, was nominated for the Audience Award, along with like literally 20 other movies and No Medland won that. So good for the Gotham. for recognizing first cow to the extent that it did.

It also got three Independent Spirit Award nominations, which the indie spirits went big for Nomadland, as a lot of places did that year. But Rikertz nominated for Best Director, rightfully so. The best feature nominees that year were kind of similar to the Gotham's, right? Nomadland, Maureen's Black Bottom, Manari, never rarely sometimes always. Those were the big ones this year.

Trying to think of, see if there was any kind of standout, unusual. Oh, Benedict Wong for nine days, which I watched, and I didn't really like nine days very much. That was a Sundance movie that people seemed to really, really like. I would have liked that movie. It didn't do it for me. I thought it was, it was a little too, I thought it was real, like, it's real low-key. Like, it's real, deliberately pays. But kind of high-key on its concept in a way.

Yeah. You know, there is a little bit of it that feels a little quaint, but I don't know, I kind of liked it. Maybe I would have liked it less if I didn't see it during the pandemic. I think that's probably true for a lot of things for me, too. So, yeah. What else did you want to mention about first time? I want to loop back to Kelly Reichardt a little bit. Let's do it.

Because it really kind of is just, I mean, like, you know, you hate to have the Oscars art cool enough for this conversation. But, like, it really is a shame. that this is the closest that she probably will ever have one of her movies get to Oscar. I don't even think it comes down to coolness with Kelly Riker. She just, she operates in a temperature and, you know, that that doesn't cross the path of the Oscars. You know what I mean?

Like, that's a ridiculously bad metaphor. But you know what I mean? Like, there is, there's a pace to her movies and there is a organizing principle to her movies that just, they're not flashy in any way. Everything that makes them great is what makes them a tough sell with the Oscars. Yeah, totally. And it's like we just did Wonderstruck, or at least Wonderstruck, drop today.

I don't know how many episodes we've done since then at this point. But, like, she has this close personal relationship with Todd Haynes, and it just feels like they're, you know, the cool kids that, you know, are just never invited to the prom. I don't know what. I don't want to do some childish metal floor for it. But it's just like, you know, even he is more accessible to, you know, the industry or the establishment than she is. So long as there's still somebody willing to give her enough of a budget to keep making these movies, I'm fine. I, of course, I of course want her to be recognized.

That's the whole point of, you know, us loving the Oscars like we do. We want our faves to be recognized. And we want people to see these movies, too, because I do. I do think, what I do think is true of First Cow is I do think her filmography clicked into place for a lot of people who maybe felt on the outside of it or, you know, didn't feel the urgency to watch or rewatch any of it. And I think First Cow did make a lot of people get her. Yeah. Well, it's, it's not as meandering as Meeks cut off. You know what I mean?

And, like, interesting, like, Meek's cutoff is actually, well, I don't know, I guess this movie, too, there's, like, there's a chase and they're being pursued with, you know, guns and whatever. But, like, Meek's cutoff is just, like, a very deliberately slow-paced movie. And I think first cow, there's a bit more pepinate step a little bit, right? And there's a little, you know, there's, the characters, I think, are probably easier to latch onto, certainly Cookie and Lou. And I think it's, yeah, it's a little, it's a little snappier. And, I mean, when you say that about Kelly Riker, like, you really are speaking relatively to everything else. But I think that's true, but I think it's one of actually her longer movies. I mean, I think the other thing, too, you know, just to talk about, like, film culture a little bit or, like, you know, the apparatus with which these movies have reached people.

Like, it's, I hope that, you know, A-24 continues to stick by her because, you know, with all of the success and the money that they make from, like, horror movies or, you know, the success of everything everywhere all at once when, you know, her movies aren't making them money, but they hopefully will still stand by her because otherwise, why would an outlet like this exist? Right. You know, like all of her movies before this, like, IFC was the biggest distributor. it's like sure iFC has some reach to get to audiences but you know they also release a lot of movies and are used to they i think they're going under um you know she hasn't always had the distributor that's been able to like reach even by limited release you know wide yeah who were her distributors through the years i'm trying to look through um old joy was god what even was Joy, who was distributed

that movie. That was a real, real like indie indie movie. I know oscilloscope did Wendy and Lucy. Wendy and Lucy. Yep. Meeks was oscilloscope as well. Let's see.

Night Moves was Synodime. That's interesting. Yeah, night moves I think it took a while to actually get to theaters from its festival release. Yeah. Certain women. That's IFC. That's your IFC one.

And then what did we say? First cow was 824. And then showing up is also 824? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Where did you see showing up? Which is not to dog any distributors, but like it makes it a lot easier for people to not see those movies, you know? Yeah.

Where did you see showing up in terms of theatrically or festival-wise or what? kind of like our through the university the film center at the university has a relationship

with Kelly Reichard they did a fellowship with her and she has stayed very loyal to them and I saw both certain women

and showing up here where she gave a talk back she is rad as fuck she is so cool and chill and funny

so I got to see both with her in person nice is it not the craziest thing that Kelly Rikart was born and raised in Miami? Like, is it, like, of all, like, you could have given me a hundred American cities to guess, and I would not have gotten to Miami before I guessed.

I mean, I have a friend who is maybe a little younger than her, who also grew up in Miami, and I feel like those two would vibe, so. Yeah, I just mean, she's so intimately, emotionally connected to the Pacific Northwest. You know what I mean? Like, she's the Oregon-eist filmmaker I can think of, right? She's also a filmmaker who didn't, you know, really make films until, you know, well into her life after doing other things within, you know, the filmmaking world, too. So, you know, maybe... Talk about that a little bit, because I think people don't really know about that a ton.

I mean, I maybe don't know enough to really speak on it. She, you know, worked on other people's films, including Todd Haynes, came up. with came up through the like killer films crew kind of and she makes river of grass in the 90s it doesn't do very well I would probably be willing to bet that more people have seen that movie in the past five years than saw it you know and the it's 20 years before that of being released I think that movie's good it is very 1990s first filmmaker movie sure sure but But it still has such a distinct point of view, and there's kind of this edge to it that is, I wouldn't say not present in her other movies, but is an interesting compliment to her other movies when you've seen her whole filmography. It did get three Independent Spirit Award nominations, so that's, you know, credit to them for, again, 1990s Independent Spirit Awards were a whole other piece.

of business. And that one was released by Strand Releasing, which has a great history of releasing. We love the good folks at Strand Releasing. Really, really interesting stuff. So yeah, she is definitely one of the most interesting indie filmmakers around, and I really love her. I was just sort of perusing my little notes and want to make sure that I get everything. And Oh, there's the moment Very early on in the movie After, I think it's after Cookie leaves

Or no, it's when he's foraging At the beginning of the movie For food for the little fur traders And first of all, the sound design in that scene Where he's picking the mushrooms Is exquisite. Like there's a snap to it When he breaks off the mushrooms from the ground

That sounds so, like, I hate mushrooms Like, culinary I can't stand mushrooms or one of my list of like absolutely never foods. And yet I'm watching that scene where it's just like snap, crisp, pop, you know what I mean? And it's just like, it just sounds very fresh and very delicious. And I'm like, I want to eat whatever he is going to be making with these things. So good job to the sound design for this whole movie. I think it's really, really well done.

Also like the scene where Lou is up in the tree and the branch is like, crick, crick. creaking tremendously tense. But there's the moment there where Cookie is foraging in the woods and he comes upon a little salamander that is upside down

and I thought it was dead I think we're meant to think it's dead and Cookie just takes it and he turns it over and it goes along its way and it's like well that's just the sweetest thing I've ever seen a person do in a movie much less in like the rough and tumble 1820s

or whatever. So it just says a lot about that lovely, lovely character. What else do you have to say about First Cow? To kind of piggyback on the little salamander lizard, whatever it was thing, like there's a certain level of describing the gentleness of this movie sounds way more cloying and saccharin than it actually is. Yeah, don't go by me. The gentility of this movie has so much depth of feeling that, you know, it's so good. I would just also highlight Kelly Rikart's regular cinematographer, Christopher Blue Belt,

who also shot showing up. This movie looks extraordinary. Yes, it does. In the rectangular Academy ratio. I would allow boxy. Yes. What shape are boxes? Sometimes rectangles.

Yeah, you got me there, fine. Excellent cinematographer, who I don't believe has had a nomination yet, but it's coming. I love his work. Yeah. He shot the new Todd Haynes movie, because I guess Lockman wasn't available. Oh, that's interesting. I'm so excited for that one. All right.

to move into IMDB game territory. You know, we sure can, since we already had a game, why not end with the game. Yes, the game of games. Yes. We end our episodes with the IMDB game where we challenge each other with an actor or actress to try to guess the top four titles that IMDB says they're most known for. If any of those titles are television, voice only performances, or non-acting credits, we'll mention that up front. And after two wrong guesses, we get the remaining titles or lease here says a clue. If that's not enough, it just becomes a free-for-all of hints.

And that is the IMTV game. It sure is. Would you like to give a clue first or guess first? I'll give first. Okay. What's you got? I'll give first. I was going through the Kelly Reichardt's stable of actors, some of which she

had returning performances from. I ended up choosing someone, as we had never pulled this person before, that, uh, I believe is only in her newest film showing up. That is Mr. Judd Hirsch. Oh, Judd Hirsch. One television. I imagine the television is taxi. It is taxi. I imagine one of the films is probably ordinary people. Incorrect. Okay. No Ordinary People His first Oscar nomination Great performance Probably should have won Timothy Hutton's Oscar in my opinion

Independence Day Correct Independence Day Okay so two of four Very rad that Independence Day is on his known for He is wonderful in the movie I'm very resistant to guessing the Fablemans Even though it's an Oscar nomination Because it's so new

and because it didn't make very much money. But putting a pin in that. What else? Judd Hirsch. Gosh. You know what? No, I'm going to have to guess Fableman's because I want years if I miss it. So Fableman's is correct.

It is correct. Okay. Okay. So three of four, and I've gotten one wrong answer. What else is Judd-Hersh? Independence Day resurgence or whatever. Incorrect. Okay.

What's my year? Your year is 2001. Oh. Okay. 2001. Is it an awardsy movie? Yes. It is.

Is he in a beautiful mind? He's in a beautiful mind. Really? Do not remember him one bit from him being in a beautiful mind. Okay. I know that I said I was going to give you something difficult. You did, you promised. Put a pause on that until next week.

All right. Yeah, I had to torture you because a beautiful mind showed up. Okay. Well, I am giving you an incredibly obscure actress, so forgive me. I went into John McGarro's filmography, and his very first movie was co-starring with one Miss Jody Foster. So I'm going to give you Jody Foster Is, did you not mention the title of that movie Because it's in His Known for

You know what? I'm going to not say either way And then you can guess Well, that's interesting Is that movie Flight Plan? No, and it's not one of your four, so strike one. Okay. Oh, I think I've gotten in your head with this. maybe you have um i'm gonna say the many the many saints of newark you're guessing jody foster oh oh i was okay i thought

you were saying no he was in a movie okay never mind he is in a movie with jody foster but jody foster i never would have guessed flight plan oh okay if i realized what was happening no it's okay that's on me that's on me i will take the loss for flight plan and i will say the silence of the lambs correct I will say contact. No, incorrect. So that's strike two. Wow.

So your years are 1976, 1988, and 2008 and 2007. 2007 and what? Well, if you weren't talking over me, you wouldn't 1976, 1988 and 2007.

88's the accused. Yes. I realize she won an Oscar for that movie, but... You said the 1976 one, but I didn't hear it, so I do need to hear it. Taxi driver. Yes, correct. Anybody who wants to say that someone is in rightful possession of one closest Oscar, guess what? The person is Jody Foster.

That's true. It's true. 2007. Is that the Brave One? The Brave One. Ew! John McGarrow's first movie, The Brave One. Jordan's The Brave One. Ew.

Yeah. That movie sucks. Yeah. We could do an episode on that movie. Yeah, we could. Probably should at some point. Yes. Good job.

Congratulations. You've gotten all at Jody's. We love Jody. We do love Jody. We love Kelly Rikart. She came out as single, famously enough. And then showed up later to the Golden Globes in her PJs. We love her.

All right. During the pandemic, it all comes. comes full circle. It all comes around together. The most pandemic movie is the Moritanian. The Mauritanian, you're absolutely right. It's the Mortanian. Because, you know, it also won a golden globe that didn't happen. The Moratanian was a movie that on the eve of Oscar nominations that year seemed like it could get anywhere from zero to seven nominations. Like, one thousand percent. It absolutely had that vibe. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right. God, that pandemic golden globes was the, The weirdest fucking set of nominees and winners ever. Do you remember Rosamund Pike winning for I Care a Lot?

Do you remember that that happened? Do you remember? Strangest, goddamn thing. It was a very Globes set of winners, except for Andrew Day winning, which was a good win. It's still weird. It may be a good win, but it's still so weird that that happened also. I mean, five people watch that movie, and I was one of them, but she's great in it. Sure.

It's not a good movie, but she's good in it. I think I agree with that. Okay, all right. And that is our episode. If you want more of This Had Oscar Buzz, you can check out the Tumblr at ThisHadoscarbuzz.com. You should also follow our Twitter account at Had underscore Oscar underscore Buzz and our Instagram at This Had Oscar Buzz. Chris, where can the listeners find more of you? You can find me on Twitter and Letterboxed at Chris V File.

That's F-E-I-L. And I am on Twitter and letterboxed at Joe Reed, read-spelled, R-E-I-D. We would like to thank Kyle Cummings for his fantastic artwork and Dave Gonzalez and Gavin Medius for their technical guidance. Please remember to rate, like, and review us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Google Play, Stitcher, wherever else you get podcasts. A five-star review in particular really helps us out with Apple Podcasts visibility.

So put that blueberry clafout tea in the oven at about 350 degrees for 50 minutes, which should give you plenty of time to write something sweet about us. So I'll say this week, but we hope you'll be back next week for more buzz. I'm not only loose. Well, so I can't deny or lie because you're there only one to make me fly. You know what you are, you are. First cow. First cow.

Yeah. You're a first cow. Uh-huh. You can give it to me when I need to come along. First cow. First cow. You're my first cow. And baby, you can turn me on.

Maybe you can turn me on. moo moo with me over the moon moo with me moo with me Kelly Reichert what if that's how Kelly Rykart

like ended the shoot for first cow What if Kelly Rykart made a rent What if she made John McGarrow and Orion Lee Like moo with her at the end Wait Kelly Ryckhard's rent would be rad as fuck Are you kidding me They would all be hiking across

The Oregon Wilderness For two hours It'd be great I mean, I would watch him. I mean, she will probably make a movie about Squatters' Rights, so. That is true. Kelly Rikerts Squatters Rights, Toronto Film Festival, 2024. A rent story. Yeah, all right.

Bye.