This Had Oscar Buzz - 247 – Breakfast on Pluto

Episode Date: July 17, 2023

The cementing of Cillian Murphy as a major actor has been a long time in the making, possibly coming to fruition this weekend with the release of Oppenheimer. Audiences likely most know the actor for his starring role in Peaky Blinders, but his cinematic arrival began in the early 2000s with films like 28 Days Later. However, 2005 … Continue reading "247 – Breakfast on Pluto"

Uh-oh, wrong house. No, the right house. I didn't get that! We want to talk to Marilyn Hacks. I'm from Canada. I'm from Canada water. I was born in a small town near the Irish border. I was left in a basket on a certain doorstep.

You know I saw her once? You're real woman. With in London? What she look like? The most beautiful girl in the town. Not many people can take the tale of Patrick Kitten for Aiden. Kitten. Kitten.

Hello and welcome to the This Head Oscar Buzz podcast, the only podcast exhumed by Ali's Shotcat and her. dog. Every week on this had Oscar buzz we'll be talking about a different movie that once upon a time had lofty Academy Award aspirations, but for some reason or another it all went wrong. The Oscar hopes died and we're here to perform

the autopsy. I am your host Chris Fyle and I'm here as always with my doggy in the window, Joe Reid. Oh, have you noticed my waggedy tail? Is that what's going on? Is it not waggaly? We can debate as they did in the movie. I, it's funny

that the movie comes down on the side of waggedy tale because I don't believe that that's how I grew up. More whimsical words, so not surprising. Sure. I mean, waggily is a pretty whimsical word as it is. So you got to go the extra mile to get more whimsical than waggily. And they sure did it. You're my doggy in the window because I have often described you as waggety. Yes. God, that waggity son of a gun. Yes, exactly. That sounds like a euphemism for the F slur. It sure does. 100% does You know

He seems a little waggity Yeah Like their mannerisms You can't quite tell If they're just an expressive person Or if they are Somewhere on the queer spectrum So it's like it's waggety

You don't really know how to Ascribe them But you suspect He could be a wagget Yeah Yeah Happy Pride We're still

It is still pride It is still pride As we record this you're recording this. What is the month of July? Is July anything? Happy. Wrath.

Sure. Yes. Yes. Wrath. Gay wrath month. I get a little... I don't know. We don't need to go into it.

It's a little performative to me. It's a little like, oh, I'm no more Mr. Nice Queer. Now I'm going to have gay wrath month. Like, all right, we get it. I allow it. Even if it's performative, I endorse it. Okay. All right.

It can be performative. if I don't care. Throw your bricks, whatever. Feel our wrath, especially as things are going in the United States. Anyway, happy pride, but also happy good movies are in theaters again. Yeah, man. We're here to talk about Breakfast on Pluto starring Killian Murphy. It's the week that Oppenheimer opens.

It feels like Killian Murphy will get into it. It feels like Julian Murphy is finally getting the showcase that we've been promised for 20 years. Maybe we will see. Obviously, neither of us have seen Oppenheimer at this point, but we will be seeing it. Yes, we will. As this airs this coming weekend. Oh, yeah, yeah. I already have my IMAX ticket in my hot little hand, and I already have my Barbie ticket.

So, like, I am good to go for opening day. Behind the eight ball, I'm waiting on my husband to tell me how he wants to see Oppenheimer, and then we will get those tickets, because it's like, do we want to see it in IMAX? Do we want to see it in 70 millimeter? we have the opportunity we could see it in 35mm at another theater. I don't think I have the option for either 70 millimeter or 35. So I definitely did go with IMAX in my... Take the train into Toronto.

I bet they have the 70 film. It sounds easier than it is. It's also a three-hour movie, so that's a whole day. There's only one train that really goes all the way to Toronto. This is something that comes up when I'm TIF planning, is I wish there were a train. that went from Buffalo that got you into Toronto early in the day. The one train that goes from Buffalo to Toronto

gets you in there like after 7 o'clock and that's if it's on time. So you've blown most of the day. So whatever. There you go. Whatever. Logistics, logistics.

But yes, I'm happy to be seeing it an IMAX, I will say. I'm not usually an IMAX person, but for certain things, it feels good and correct. And just give me the biggest fucking screen you possibly can for... So that you can

study the crevasses in Killian Murphy's face at a hundred feet in the air. Really, every time I see that trailer because you do get that close-up of Killian Murphy's face. And I'm like 28 days later really was 20 years ago. And

my haven't we all, you know, experienced a lot in 20 years. And I'm sure the movie is you know, playing up, like you said, the the sort of the crevasse-laden face and whatever. But, like, we are all 20 years older than we. Noted inventor of Buckelfat removal, Killian Murphy.

Look of. But, yeah, I'm excited for Oppenheimer. I'm excited for it. He's always been an actor, and we'll get into that in our discussion of Breakfast on Pluto. But, like, Killian Murphy, since I saw him in 28 days later, has always been kind of one of my guys, even though I'm not a completely. As I was going through his filmography, obviously so much of the last decade of his career has been Peeky Blinders, a show that I've never really watched. And when I say never really, I mean, never watched it all. And there's even stuff like When That Shakes the Barley or Disco Pigs and stuff like that that I still haven't seen also. But when the shake the barley, wins that it shakes the barley is fine. It's fine. As with every Ken Loach film, the title. appears to be loach. Loach. The title appears to promise something contemplative and relaxed in its unfurling.

And, like, I know that, like, shakes is an active verb. There should be some sort of, like, shakes. But also, like, I think wind and barley are probably doing the heavy lifting in that title. And I'm imagining, like, fields of... You're imagining Terence Malick. Yeah. blowing through Barley. You get it. You get it.

That's not what that movie really is. No. Yes. But I still haven't seen it. I like it better than the other Loach Palm winner. Which is called... I. Daniel Blake. I Daniel Blake. Right. Right. Right. Right. Yeah. But yes. So I'm excited for Oppenheimer

to possibly be the Killian Murphy sort of mainstream widespread appreciation. Although it's interesting, we sort of assume, we assume a lot when we talk about like a Christopher Nolan movie in terms of its cultural reach and its box office and its even awards potential. And we don't maybe remember that it's not always that. That, I mean, releasing 10,

it during the pandemic, did a lot for Christopher Nolan, both reputational and historically. I think it turned a lot of people off of him that he was so insistent on putting Tenet in theaters while the world was shut down. And then Tenet itself was such an at-time's very sort of determinedly opaque movie in a lot of ways. And a lot of people were really alienated by that. Tenet is a movie that I love very much, and I eventually did. I should revisit Tenet, but I remember thinking that it was really stupid, even when I was entertained by it, slashed by Robert Pattinson's scarves. I was happy to just sort of, when I eventually did see it in theaters, which wasn't until the next year. I really, and I liked it the first time, too,

but I was really sort of taken with it and taken along the ride with it. But anyway, my point being that I don't know if there's a guarantee that, A, Oppenheimer is going to be a blockbuster success, and B, that this means that, like, well, Killion Murphy's going to get an Oscar nomination. Like, Christopher Nolan has only ever... He seems very stricken in this trailer, and, you know, he's playing a title character. I think the possibility, the potential is high. Higher than normal for a Nolan performance, is he, like... you're the only Nolan performance

that's ever gotten an Oscar nomination? Yeah. I do believe. Yeah. So, and part of that is the genre that he works in. Part of that is that like something like Dunkirk

is so completely ensemble driven that like there really aren't spotlight performances and even the ones that are are very small. So, um,

you don't really get... And like the, the most, like, spotlight performance in Dunkirk is maybe Mark Rylance, who's almost completely removed from the action, the thrust of the movie. If Memento comes much later in Nolan's career, I imagine that Guy Pearce is a much bigger contender for a nomination, just because it's such a actorly exercise on top of... Or Joe Pantleana. Or Caryon Moss.

I think the performances in Mento are some of the best in his entire career. But Guy Pearce especially because it's like the, on top of being a great performance, it also feels like the challenge of it feels very hooky for an Oscar campaign, right? Like he had to, every scene he has to act like he's, you know, a clean slate and whatnot. Just like he's just airdropped into the scene. Right. So it'll be interesting to see. what Oppenheimer does for Killian Murphy

is all I'm going to say. The thing about Killian Murphy in Oppenheimer is the same thing as like Oppenheimer. I still feel like weirdly at this point as we're recording it, it's being sold as kind of just straightforward what it is

but because it's Christopher Nolan, you know that it's not. So like we don't know what this movie kind of is or like I think people might end up being disappointed or it's what it's if he

just goes and makes a straightforward movie because even like Dunkirk we expected to be a straightforward war movie and it's not it's not it's not going to be the other thing is it's universal right because or no yes because he divorced from the WB yeah from Warner Brothers

as Villeneuve did right? Conscious uncopling yes conscious uncopling did Vilnove also do the same right is Dune also No, June's Warner Brothers. Because they did put Duner Brothers. Warner Brothers is probably going to piss off

fuck you, David Sassliff. Yeah, they're going to end up alienating everybody before it's all said and done. But anyway, Universal seems to be trying to advance the notion of Oppenheimer as an explosions movie, which like I guess it's not hard to do when you're talking

about the creation of atomic bomb. Really big explosions in IMAX. Otherwise it's like, why are we watching this? straightforward drama. Every update about that movie is, like, you don't understand the actual movie theater you are in will explode by the end of this movie. Like, you will be thrown clear across your town, and it's going to be the greatest experience of your entire life.

They're really, really selling the idea of explosions, because you're right, because they want to make it a must see in a big theater event, even though it's, like, is the second I saw. I feel like they're trying to get, like, dudes who see Fast and Furious movies, like dudes and dads who may not sit through, you know, an adult drama, but we'll go watch things go crash boom, boom. I guarantee you the first 20 minutes of this movie, at least, are going to be, A, in black and white, this is my shooting my shot prediction. They're going to be black and white, and they're going to be Oppenheimer after the fact testifying before Congress or whatever. Because you've seen scenes from that in the trailer, right? The first 20 minutes is going to be like some weird montage that we can't tell what's going on.

I think it's going to be frame story. I think we're going to get a lot of frame story before we get into the actual. And a lot of it's just going to be like science. You know what I mean? And I think there's going to be an interstellar aspect to it. Now, interstellar still made pretty good money, right? If I'm not mistaken, I don't think interstellar like bombed or anything like that. I think it made like 150, 180 range, but it was still seen as a disappointment.

Right. But like... I like Interstellar a lot. It was on TV the other day, and I had to turn it off because it was distracting me from my work. But anyway, I have high hopes. We've talked about this before, about how I kind of resent the gender essentialism of Barbie versus Oppenheimer and the Oppenheimer is a boy movie and Barbie is a girl movie and if you're a good queer you'll see Barbie

with the girls and and don't see Oppenheimer because that's heteronormative bullshit or whatever. I think I've seen two people joking about this. I don't think I've seen any person seriously saying this. I defy that. I see it all the time, all the goddamn time. And it's, well, I'm on, I'm on Twitter less than you are. I also think we have time and time again proven that we have curated our Twitter

presences to be different than each other. Or maybe you just take people seriously when they're joking. Or maybe I'm just like they're joking. I think the jokes are dumb. I think the jokes are dumb and I think the jokes come from a legitimate place of people being like, we need to make sure that we support Greta Gerwig's movie and don't support Christopher Nolan's movie because everything has to be a battle of this or that. And I think it's...

I mean, the simple fact of the matter is Barbie is going to blow Oppenheimer out of the water, because, like, Oppenheimer is a three-hour movie. I'm still seeing them both on the same day, and I still want Oppenheimer to do well. And I think it's, I think it's reductive, and I think it's silly. And I think it's the thing that drives me crazy about the way that people talk about movies on the internet, which is leading with stupidity. Like, leading with fucking dumbness. And it's... You're saying this as, like, people are apparent.

I have seen none of this, but apparently, according to the Hollywood reporter, everyone is up in arms over the plot of no hard feeling. I have seen some of this. This movie, that parents, the parents are trying to

buy a sex worker for their child as if every action, everyone in a movie, why am I getting mad about this? Because no one is making this complaint. No one is making this complaint. From what I understand, it's much more prevalent on TikTok,

I believe. A, I don't, I don't expose myself to TikTok because I love myself. But I also, like, it feels like a very Gen Z thing, right? Like, that's sort of their sexphobic, you know, take on popular culture is, like, as soon as I saw that trailer, I was like, oh, Gen Z is not going to be able to handle this one. Well, I mean, see the movie, and it's like, it's much tamer than that. I mean, it's a sex comedy, but it's way less about anything sexual than... I don't think it matters to these people, though. I don't think that kind of thing matters. I think everything is, I don't know, I don't know.

We could have a whole hour. Bonus episode, Joe complains about Gen Z. It's going to be a whole time. No hard feelings, good movie. No heart feelings is a very good movie. Like, exceeded my expectation. Asteroid City, great movie. Asteroid City great movie.

Listen, the movies are back. and we're leaving this episode into a weekend where you have lots of options of what to go see and right now we're recording at a great time when you have a lot of options to see a lot of great options to see

I'm going to go see past lives after our recording Yeah, I got to figure out where I can see past lives and then see past lives because I am rabid, rabid to see that one. All right, all of which is to say we're talking about breakfast on Pluto today. Starring Killian Murphy. So that's our connective tissue for this.

This one's been on our list for quite a while. Had you ever seen it before now? I hadn't, which is partly why it's been on my list for a while. And I remember at the time I missed it because I think it was kind of blink and you miss it in my college city. I was in. Yeah, I definitely saw it on Netflix DVD. yeah um but i do remember having like queer friends who had seen it and liked it at the time yeah so

it also has that chine of problematic in twenty twenty three to it where it's we are our vocabulary and our sensibility for trans characters and flu you know gender fluid characters has definitely evolved since 2005. We also have, I mean, even back then, I think there was a consideration of cisgender straight actors playing queer and trans characters. Like, that's not like it was, it's not like, oh, we, we didn't know that that was controversial. It still was controversial back then. It was just like those voices were not heard as broadly who were, who, you know, were speaking up about that. And definitely people speak up about that a lot more. I have

fairly complex feelings about that particular notion, the idea of straight actors playing queer roles, which I think straight actors playing queer roles to me, I don't know if you feel the same way, is a little bit of a different beast than cisgender actors playing

trans characters. Oh, absolutely. But I also feel like the farther back you go, the more those lines are blurred and they're texts that we're talking about. It's somewhat blurred in this text, too, because we'll, I mean, obviously, we'll talk about kitten in the movie, but I don't know to what extent kitten as presented

in this movie is interested in being so definitive. Exactly. But I think it's safe to say that this is a trans character, or at least a gender-fluid character. Yes. I think that's safe to say. Yeah. which complicates a viewing of this movie and which complicates my appreciation of the central performance of this movie,

while also trying hard to place it within a context, place the novel that it's based on within a context. There's also, of course, historical contexts being that this takes place in the 1970s in Ireland and also on the border of Northern Ireland and also at times in London. And so there's a lot going on politically, militarily, with the troubles at this moment in time. So there's a lot of... I think there's also a lot of complexity in the fact that this is a Neil Jordan movie, who there's a lot to say about The Crying Game as well. There's a scene in this movie that very, very specifically kind of forces the viewer to recall the crying game.

Because Stephen Ray is also in this movie. Stephen Ray is in every Neil Jordan movie. I thought a little bit about, it's obviously a different case, but I thought a little bit about Jonathan Demi, who kind of made Philadelphia somewhat of an apology to people that he upset unintentionally with the silence of the lambs. And I was, I couldn't really, it was hard to find much on this movie. The Wayback Machine has not been our friend as much.

as it used to be. Right. Because I was curious. Yeah. There's a Wesley Morris review that is cited on the Rotten Tomatoes page that I could not find. Usually if it's the link from Rotten Tomatoes is dead, I'm usually able to Google my way to finding the article, the review, and I was not able to in that case.

It's too bad because as a queer critic, I would have liked to have seen what his thoughts on that movie are. I would like to just read an interview from Neil Jordan, that hopefully addresses this in a way, like, does this seem like, in some ways this movie reads as Apologa a little bit, but also stumbles in being that, you know, from at least lens of almost 20 years later? I have complicated opinions on that as well, in that we did a screen drafts a few years ago about queer Oscar-winning movies.

And it became kind of apparent during the course of doing that, that I like the crying game more than you do. And while also, you know, understanding the incredibly fraught politics and gender politics and sexual politics of that movie and its reception, whatever. And there are ways in which I think Breakfast on Pluto is, as you're saying, attempt to maybe write some of the wrongs, but I can't deny that I felt more emotionally enrapped, and if that's a term, in Dill's story in The Crying Game than I did in Breakfast

on Pluto and Kitten's story, even though Kitten is much more centered in this. I don't know. I was much more emotionally involved in the crying game and maybe more emotionally satisfied by that movie. And I'm probably going to end up sticking up for the crying game again in this podcast, just a warning in advance. From that screen drafts, I remember my logic being less, The Crying Game is bad and being like,

there's better movies to put on this draft than The Crying Game. Sure. Because I don't know if I... I mean, it's been a long time since I've seen that movie. I don't know if I would say I... I'm not saying that I feel like you... Sure. I definitely think I like it better than you, though.

I think that's pretty safe to say. Yeah, sure. Sure. Yeah. Anyway, we'll get into it. We'll get into it. There's going to be a lot to talk about for this movie that I... I am a little, you know, in the weeds off.

Well, maybe we should get into the plot description. We can start talking about this. movie a little bit more with some specificity listeners we are here to talk about breakfast on Pluto written and directed by Neil Jordan based on the Pat McCabe novel movie stars Killian Murphy Stephen Ray Brendan Gleason Liam Neeson Ruth Naga and Dominic Cooper future couple alert and then a lot of other bit players the movie is most I would say mostly just kind of a character piece that hinges on the performance

of Gilean Murphy. The movie premiered at the Tell Your Ride Film Festival in 2005. It also played Toronto, and it played the New York Film Festival, then opened in limited release November 16th, 2005. Joe

Reed, are you ready to give a 60-second plot description of Breakfast on? I am with the caveat at that there's a lot of plot in this movie. There's a lot happens in this movie. Also, with the caveat that this

is no longer considered a planet movie, it's considered a moon movie. That's true. The world really has changed. The galaxy has completely changed. The galaxy is different than it used to be. Yeah, that's true. All right.

If you are ready, I will start the clock. Are you ready? I am ready. All right, your 60-second plot description of Breakfast on Pluto starts now. All right, Patrick. Patrick Kitten Braden is born in an Irish town bordering Northern Ireland in the times of the troubles. His mother is said to resemble Mitzie Gainer, and his father is the local Catholic priest, so his mom abandons him and leaves to get swallowed up by London forever, while Patrick is raised in no way prepared for the feminine, flamboyant adolescence that awaits them.

In the turbulent 1970s, Patrick gets older and begins going by kitten, embracing her female identity and riling up her schoolmasters, while remaining close with the childhood friends who are Irwin, who joins the IRA, Charlie, who eventually becomes. Irwin's girlfriend and Lawrence, who has Down syndrome. After school, Kitten begins to seek out places farther and farther from home. She ends up in something of a relationship with the glam rocker who keeps her in a trailer far away from the city, where he also happens to be stockpiling guns for the IRA. After Lawrence is killed by a car bomb, Kitten discards the weapons and is nearly murdered for it. Kitten is ultimately on a search for her mother and ends up in a series of situations between from oddly romantic to terribly dangerous, including a stint as a magician's assistant

and also being the victim of a nightclub bombing, only to be that suspected as the bomber because she's both trans and Irish. While working at a peep show, Kitten encounters the priest from her hometown who finally admits to being her father, and then she then finds her mother in London who has a young son named Patrick, and Kitten doesn't reveal her true identity. Instead, returning home to help Charlie raise her baby after Erman is killed by the IRA for ratting them out. And then the pair, along with Kitten's priest father, survive an arson attack by the small-minded town float. By the end of the movie, Kitten is living openly in her chosen family, glammed up like a movie star, and pushing a pram around town.

20 seconds over, which I think is somewhat of a feat because there is a lot of plot. Lot of plot. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The, like, episodic nature of it is one of the things I had such a problem with, because, like, while, like, all of these hang-ups we've described about Killian Murphy playing this character, I do think he is a compelling performer that is very easy to watch. Even if I say that next to, I'm not sure I think this is a good performance, but Killian Murphy is a compelling performance. I think I agree with that. I think I probably come close to having that same opinion. Yeah. But like the episodicness of this really kind of made this a really lethargic movie.

It's just over two hours. And it felt it felt Oppenheimer length. It really drags out. It really becomes kind of. shapeless to the point where it's like all it's it's told in what 36 chapters or something and pointing that out really like it's relatively brief it hangs a lantern on how long it feels when you're seeing like 32 33 you know what I mean like yeah and it has to be the type of thing that it's keeping a structure from the book in some that's my presumption because I obviously

haven't read the book but it feels like something that works on the page but doesn't work in movies you know it yeah there are three makes there it makes a lot of stuff seem more superfluous than it probably is because it's not it doesn't feel like there's a really strong arc here and ultimately i think the stuff with the troubles is handled not as well as just the simple arc of kitten yeah trying to find her birth mother and i don't know it it It feels meandering. It almost, there were a few times. There were like a couple different times than I went and double-checked that this isn't based on a true story.

Because it, especially the stuff with the troubles and the IRA, feels boxed in by trying to be faithful to some sort of biographical detail. Because otherwise, it just seems unnecessarily muddled. And that, like, kitten is Irish, but not Northern Irish, but grew up. up very close to Northern Ireland, so there's a lot of whatever, and there's, you know, violence, but it's the IRA perpetuating the violence, but it's kitten and her friends who are ends up the victims of the violence, but also the English and the loyalists are the ones who are the bad guys, but also the IRA is the one who are like threatening kitten and killing Irwin and that kind of thing, which like, like moral complexity is not a vice in this case, like, but it does feel like

it belongs in a movie that is maybe more specifically about the conflict rather than ultimately window dressing for kitten story because it just sort of distracts the viewer and makes you have to go through this sort of like moral gymnastics for ultimately a character who doesn't who is not you know concerned with that as much and I understand that like there are thematic constructs at play with that but ultimately I feel like a cleaner, you know, and maybe less, you know, less complicated, less complex series of window dressing around it might have helped the central story feel more central, if that makes sense. I mean, this is, again, not to, the conversation of who is telling what type of stories, this did really feel to me like a queer director. or a gender queer director

even something along the lines of that because by all telling Neil Jordan is a cisgendered band might have been able to have more focus on drawing the threads of kittens' gender identity, her gender expression, to this kind of political reality

that she experienced of not necessarily falling on You know, it's, at least the way I think we've seen it depicted on screen is the troubles are along a binary of, you know, this side and that side. Green and orange, Catholic and Protestant, yeah, loyalist and Republican. Right, and Kitten finds herself drawn into, or at least, you know, experience of the whole kind of spectrum. And you see the opportunity for that to also be tied to her identity. in a way that the movie never really threads. Because

at the same time all this is going on, you know, she refers to herself, by her given name, she refers to herself as kitten. Someone, she tells someone, I'm not a boy. She tells someone I'm not a girl. You know, it's and like, all

of that I think is interesting to watch, but it's never fully developed in the movie. Yeah, I think I wanted more time spent maybe with kitten and her friends early on. I thought those scenes were very good. And they were a little fleeting.

We always want that movie. Well, but I think also it makes the end of the movie feel more hard-earned when it's kitten and Charlie sort of raising this baby together, which I still think, like, I'm a sucker for chosen family narratives. You know what I mean? So, like, I love that that's where the movie ends up. I felt a little corny about it because it did feel like it only barely, if at all, Dodges, you know, creating this type of heteronormative unit for them at the end in a way that I was like, well, you know, because like at the end of the movie, you know, Kitten is expressing herself in a traditionally feminine way or, you know, clearly like that's what her identity is at that point in the movie. So it's not entirely heteronormative, but it's them literally walking a baby and a pram at the end of the movie. And I was like, it's...

I see what you're saying, but I also think within that same context, it's two women walking a pram, and there is never any hint of romance between the two, so it's still like two friends raising a child. So I think there is enough of a queering of the family unit. I understand what you're saying, and that sometimes that, like, baby in a baby carriage can be a very sort of shorthandy kind of, you know, semiotic way of depicting. something. And like, I get it. I don't, I don't entirely disagree. Um, but I also think that that's helped by if Charlie's better developed early in the movie, Charlie really does like drop in and out of this movie. She shows up and saves my god from the, from the, you know, um, the manipulative magician. And she just sort of like shows up here and there. And I feel like, and it's Ruth. We love Ruth. We want more of Ruth. This would have been, this definitely was the first thing I had

ever seen Ruth Nugget, and to the point where I had not remembered that I had seen her in this. And I think that character, being more of a consistent presence throughout the movie, makes that ending of the movie feel more appropriate. Well, and I really wondered watching this movie. I was like, this movie used to exist as like a three-hour-plus movie. Because it feels like there's a lot of bulk that got taken. And it feels like, and that's what I also wondered about the kind of shapelessness of this movie. It was like, was there, not turmoil, but was there a struggle in like the edit room to figure out how to make this movie manageable?

Because this is a movie that is trying to do quite a number of things and draw a lot of ties together of a lot of different things. And she felt to me like there was more of her at some point. Yeah, I think that's probably true. her and her and Irwin, for sure. There are three movies that I sort of jotted down as comparison points to this movie as I was watching. Three movies that I was reminded of, one of which was the crying game. But also, Velvet Gold Mine, with a lot of, any time there's a T-Rex needle drop, I'm always going to think of the Velvet Gold Mine. And this movie has no less than 17.

Yeah, but also even just in the beginning, just that it has this very sort of like, you know, 1970s, UK sort of, I know that Velvet Goldmine begins even earlier than that, but there's definitely a vibe that I got at the beginning of this movie that is like, oh, I love Velvet Goldmine so much. And then also

Headwig in the Angry Inch, specifically when Kitten is sort of put up in the trailer with the guns in it by her glam rock boyfriend, felt very, you know, the wig in the box trailer. But both of those movies, obviously, Velvick Gold Mine and Hedwig, have music and musical numbers and sort of to help propel the narrative to give it a little bit more of a structure, to give it more of a, you know, the skeletal, you know, the bones to it.

And I think that not that I'm saying that like Breakfast on Pluto should have been a musical, although have they tried to make it into a musical or am I just. I'm just thinking it's, so many things have been tried to be turned into musicals. It would somewhat track if they did, like if they tried to make a T-Rex jukebox musical out of it. Yeah, yeah. I saw, I mean, the music is essentially non-stop in this movie. It is. But it's not in the same way as the Velvet Gold Mine and certainly not Headwig, which is a legit musical. I mean, those are, I mean, yeah, Headwig's a legit musical, but those are also two movies that I think, you know, utilize.

the music more intelligently. This movie, it feels somewhat like Neil Jordan is relying on those song cues to give the movie a little bit more panache and personality. Because, like, I wouldn't really consider this movie much of a visual experience,

barring a few sequences, like the peep show sequence, which also felt very Paris, Texas. Okay. The song cues are pretty, excessive in this movie. Apparently there is a Breakfast on Pluto musical that is

in some stage of existence. It was, there's a lot of, like, was scheduled to premiere at the Galway International Arts Festival in July 2020. So, like, there's COVID delays and there's, you know, all sorts of stuff. But I knew I had,

I knew I had heard of that. So, like, there does exist a Breakfast on Pluto musical written by Bob Kelly. that I'm not sure where it has played, but yeah, so anyway, yeah, which makes sense. All right, I want to dip into Neil Jordan for a second, because I believe this is our first Neil Jordan film that we've talked about on this podcast. A lot of them have been, he's an interesting filmmaker.

He's had several movies that have had Oscar success on some level or another. And then he's also made a lot of movies that, like, wouldn't qualify for this, for this podcast from the other end because they just were never, um, realistically in the Oscar conversation, things like Byzantium, which I love and Greta. I knew you were going to bring up Byzantium. Wouldn't have guessed you would have brought it up first. Um, well, no, I'm just sort of, you do love that movie. I'm just sort of thinking about like the, you know, movies like, even like in dreams, you know what I mean? Where it's like, these movies were never intended. Critical bomb. Right.

But so early Neil Jordan sort of pre, because the Crying Game is his big sort of American crossover success. But before that, have you ever seen his debut directorial features a movie called Angel, which stars Stephen Ray and begins his sort of long professional relationship with Stephen Ray. It's executive produced by John Borman. Have you ever seen The Company of Wolves, which is his second movie, which is a gothic fantasy horror movie starring Angela Lansbury? They say the Prince of Darkness is a gentleman. Gentlemen always keep their promises. What have you done with my granddaughter? Nothing she didn't want.

I have not. It's like, I haven't either. And I am researching for this episode, I immediately added it to my Netflix DVD-Q because I deeply need to see that. It's essentially like it's Little Red Riding Hood crossed with like almost a labyrinth slash princess bride kind of like story.

structure but like dark like dark gothic what is it about a teenage girl that wants to fuck a werewolf or something well it's a teenage girl whose grandmother is angela lansberry and angela lansberry is like reading her these like fairy tale stories and while that's all happening the girl is escaping i think into this like dream world where like wherewolves are real and it's uh and and i am highly into the sounds i'm saying i'm saying so uh update forthcoming on The Company of Wolves when I end up seeing it. That's immediately preceding Mona Lisa, which is... Which you have to see.

I do have to see Mona Lisa. Bob Hoskins is Oscar nominated for this. It gets some BAFTA nominations. It is Neil Jordan's first crossover with Oscar. And I believe that in 1986, this is the year that Paul Newman finally at long last wins his Academy Award for the Color of Money. believe Bob Hoskins was the critical fave slash sort of like nominal second place in that I imagine

he was never really seen as a realistic threat to win once the Paul Newman narrative said in but he's sort of the LA confidential to Paul Newman's Titanic I would imagine and that way he directs a movie called High Spirits in 1988 and then we're no angels former Comedy Central staple that I have definitely seen many times as a child and never as an adult. Wait, talk to me about high spirits then.

What do you remember? Oh, Steve Gutenberg and Daryl Hannah, my goodness. Yeah, Daryl Hannah's a ghost. I think he's trying to cool world her into being a real person again. They definitely have sex. Oh, wow. Peter O'Toole is also in this movie. My gosh.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's probably not a good movie. I'm intrigued by this as well. The one I was going to mention is 1989's We're No Angels, which is not a movie that I've seen, but I remember, weirdly, like, that's a video store cassette box that I remember. A movie that only exists to me as a VHS cover. But it's Robert De Niro, Sean Penn, and Demi Moore.

And De Niro and Sean Penn play, I imagine it's, oh, it's Depression era. And they're convicts who are masquerading as priests, I think, is the deal. Bro sister act. Yeah, essentially, right. But, yeah, the video cover is Robert DeNiro and Sean Penn in identical haircuts, identical sort of like quasi-mushroom cuts both dressed up as priests sort of with the hands folded and...

I've seen this porn before. But yeah, so that's... Oh, it's written by David Mamet, which I did not realize. Not only are they boyfriend twins, they're priest twins. And it's of course based on a Michael Curtiz movie that had originally starred Humphrey Bogart and Aldo Ray and Peter Ustinoff. So there's a lot of lineage there.

But Where No Angels definitely was a video store cover of my youth. And I never saw it. directs a movie called The Miracle in 1991, starring Beverly DeAngelo. And then The Crying Game happens. And the crying game is a huge sensation in America. This was a for good and for bad, Harvey Weinstein Miramax success story and that like they sold the sizzle on that steak

incredibly successfully, right? Where it's, he gets a best director nomination. The movie gets a best picture nomination. Neil Jordan wins original screenplay for The Crying Game. Also nominated Stephen Ray and Jay Davidson for their acting. But this was a rather infamous advertising campaign that was very much settled on, don't tell the secret in this movie. Don't, you know, see this movie before somebody tells you the great big secret in this movie.

And of course, the great big secret in the movie is that Dill, the sort of nightclub Shantus, who Stephen Ray's character, who was an IRA guy on the run from an operation gone quite bad. falls for and ultimately the surprise and the you know and we can you know talk about the way that the movie sort of plays that surprise is that Dill is a and again talk about like the way that like we didn't delineate these things maybe as carefully back in 1992 Dill has a male anatomy and that is the that is the shocking surprise of The Crying Game.

Now, of course, in my view of the movie, that is certainly not the be-all and end-all of the movie. And I think I really have come to really appreciate the way that that movie tells that story beyond the shock of it all. I think it is that relationship is taken very seriously.

I think Dill is taken very seriously as a character beyond even just the relationship. you see stuff with like Jim Broadbent is the bartender at the at the bar and like has this very sort of friendly relationship with her and she has this um very sort of she's she's you know your beguiling sort of you know figure of mystery while also being a person in a context as you know she's the one she's not the outsider in this town he is you know what i mean like fergus is definitely the you know the new guy to town and their love story is ultimately taken very seriously, and by the end, sort of, you know, they leave on this note of, you know, that this movie invests in their love story. And I think the fact that the marketing campaign, which was successful, I will say, like the marketing campaign did the job of making that movie an indie hit in the States and ultimately a multi-Oscar. So, like, that is the sort of, you know,

Neil Jordan wins the screen playoffs, the original screenplayoffs. Right. And more people saw the movie for that advertising campaign, which ultimately is, I think, a good thing. But it's also a bad thing in that, like, it really does other the Dill character and Dill's transness or dragness or however we want to, you know, characterize that character who doesn't, you know, claim one way or another in the movie, right? And then you get to, then that results in things like the 1992 Academy Awards, which I have watched within the last several years, which is Billy Crystal makes so many really ugly jokes about the crying game at the crying game's expense, which like Billy Crystal in 1992, like any sort of like straight cisgender, middle of the road, you know, comic. Like, you can probably write those jokes yourself, right? But it's uncomfortable to watch in the context of today. And they keep cutting to, like, Jay Davidson is in the audience who, like, could not look more illities with what's going on. And you just feel absolutely awful watching it. And so, and that is a direct result of the way that the movie was marketed and the movie was sold.

So there's, like, there's a lot of conflict to go with the crying game. while also the fact that I think as a movie, divorced of everything, is a very good movie. So that's where I come down on The Crying Game. What about you? My favorite Neil Jordan movie is the next one because I'm... Did you not want to talk about the crying game, but I want to give you your space because I...

No, no, no, no. You have to talk about the Crying Game to talk about this. I just feel like I don't have much interesting to say on it as you do because I haven't seen it. I've not seen it since you have seen. Okay, gotcha. But I... Well, talk about the next one,

because the next one is also very interesting in terms of... Very, very gay. And you want to talk about the gray area of straight performers playing probably pretty fucking gay characters. It's interviewed with the vampire. Which has since become a TV show

that is definitely much more overtly gay. Have you watched the TV show at all? I haven't, but the people who love it love that show. I will say, even if you don't want to commit yourself to watching an entire season of drama television, which is a time commitment, no matter how way you slice it, just watch the first movie. Just watch the series premiere, which gives you everything, honey. Like, it's so, it, it, it crosses those

lines that the movie wouldn't. And it, like, it's so sexy. You're saying this, like, I'm not someone who has watched multiple bootlegs at the Lestat musical pre and on Broadway while the changes that happened and said, what a piece of shit. Interview with the vampire is so notable though for

not only for the story itself and the queerness of the Lestat and Louis relationship but the fact that it stars the two biggest male movie stars, or not like the two biggest, but certainly Tom Cruise was the biggest. And like Brad Pitt

could not have been Like, he was the, like, male sex symbol of the moment. They were kind of the two, almost like a torch passing, like Tom Cruise, the sex symbol of the 80s, and then Brad Pitt, the sex symbol of the 90s. And it's almost more interesting of a movie for what they won't do than what they will. Like, they really do walk you up to the doorstep of everything but those two. Metaphors for gay sex. Yeah. Right.

Right. Exactly. And like, and it's, and it's anybody with a even halfway open mind that's attuned to that kind of thing is like going to read it as the most bold text. But like they... It's not just gay sex, but like gay culture because, of course, interview with a vampire has a little diva who slays. Like, it's... Little diva fangs come out. Kirsten Dunst in... She, I mean, she rules. She's the original, uh, she's Megan before she was... One, like, to the point where I have a lot less patience for the people who went crazy for Megan, because I was like, yeah, I've seen Claudia and interview the vampire. I know it. I know how it can be done. But you're right. It's it's, it's the subculture of vampires in that like, to the point where like, oh, they're really doing it crazy in Berlin. You know what I mean? Like that kind of a thing. It's like, it's, you know, we haven't met. Oh, 100%. The vampires from across the ocean. Yeah. Like, you think you've had hot K sex? Here comes Antonio Banderas.

This is the weird shit we get into over here. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. It's great. Okay, so all of this to say, interview with a vampire is like splashy trash, but it still gets multiple Oscar nominations. It's also like, it probably should have gotten more. Hugely mainstream. It's like great movie. One of the most talked about movies of that year.

Like, as somebody who got so much of their culture from MTV at that point, history. Like, interview with a vampire was all over MTV. It was like, it's so funny to imagine that, like, the youth, the teens of the 1990s were being sold Anne Rice, homoerotic, like, you know, adaptation. And it's, but like, that's why, I'm, whatever. I'm, I stand by it as saying it's Neil Jordan's best movie. I think that movie is. I think you have a solid case to make that claim. As a Gen X Cusper, I am wont to talk about the 1990s in sort of gilded tones. But, like, this is the kind of shit I'm talking about.

Like, this was, we existed in the margins of what we could get away with in the 1990s. And, like, we ended up getting away with more than you think, actually. He follows up interview with a vampire with a movie that has every ingredient to being a this had Oscar Buzz movie, except it got one Oscar nomination, so we can't talk about it. Two. Or two, sorry. Cinematography and score. But it's Michael Collins,

which is back to Ireland and back to the Irish-British-British conflict. This one takes place around... Back to Julia Roberts trying to do an accent. Yeah, this place takes place around the time after the Easter rebellion in

the early, the 19th, 1920, era. Liam Neeson plays the title character. There was a ton of Oscar buzz around it. It wins the Golden Lion at Venice that year, which kind of sounds insane. That jury was presented by Robin Polansky. But also, if you look at the 1996 Venice Film Festival, it doesn't beat out a ton

of like lingering classics. I don't know if you want to, you know, take a look at that and see. I remember prusing it. There are some major filmmakers, but, like, just going by the films themselves. It's not like, oh, I can't believe Michael Collins beat this, even though I'm sure there were, like, better movies in there. But anyway, Michael Collins ends up being a pretty big bomb when it comes to the Oscars relative to its expectations. It is wrapped up in the Julia Roberts mid-90s backlash. This was around the time of Mary Riley and I Love Trouble.

and this was considered another flop from her. It definitely had best picture and best actor aspirations that did not get realized. So this was a down one for Neil Jordan. 1997 is very, his next film in 1997 is very pertinent to this movie because it's another movie based on a book by Pat McCabe, which is The Butcher Boy. Have you ever seen The Butcher Boy?

I haven't. I haven't either. It's just from, the sounds of it, it sounds unsettling, even though I am to understand that the tone of it is a little dark comedy inflected at points.

It's about a young kid, young boy in 1960s, Ireland, and who, so essentially the same time period, as, uh, ish as breakfast on Pluto, this kid is sort of, um, bullied in school and this bully's mother is also like, awful to him and his family. And his mother commits suicide and all

these sort of things. And the kid gets sent to, uh, reform school and gets molested by a priest and comes back. And his old best friend is now, uh, best friends with, uh, the bully who tormented him. and there's this horrible act of violence at the end of this movie. And that was the previous, you know, collaboration between Neil Jordan and Pat McCabe. And I imagine there's like a lot of metaphorical and thematic claims being made about the situation in Ireland and Northern Ireland and England at the time. And I remember there getting a decent amount of, I think that movie ended up on like a lot of like top 10 lists that year, even though it wasn't ever really in awards conversation. But I feel like that was like one of a lot of critics sort of like outsider choice for a top 10 film. Follows that up with In Dreams in 1998 or no, oh, it's two movies in 99 actually.

Which I think was shelved for a while. Yeah. Um, that's Annette Benning and Robert Downey Jr. He's a, she's a psychiatrist and he's her troubled patient, right? And she can like go into his dreams. There's some weird shit going on. Yeah. If I remember correctly, I definitely saw it, but like it was 20 years ago.

An F-reviewed film from EW. If I remember that correctly. But let me, hold on, I have to look that up. I'll go on. That same year, he directs the end of the effect. Fair, which is one of those movies. There's a few of these, actually, where you go back and, like, that was a Neil Jordan movie, huh?

Because it's much more known for its lead performance by Julianne Moore, who gets a Oscar nomination for that. Her second Oscar nomination, Ray Fines, is in this movie. And then he sort of embarks on this stage of his career, where he directs pretty consistently and continues to do so. some of his movies get more attention than others. And there's kind of no correlation between how much attention his movie gets and whether they're good. There are good movies that get no attention. There are bad movies that get a lot of attention. It's sort of all over the spectrum.

So he directs The Good Thief, starring Nick Nolte in 2002, although I don't think that's maybe released in 2003. Breakfast on Pluto, 2007 is the Brave One with Jody Foster. She gets a Golden Globe nomination. A good deal of Oscar buzz, but that doesn't really pan out. 2009 is Andean, which is the Mermaid movie with Colin Farrell that I believe critics liked pretty well. 2012 is Byzantium, the vampire movie starring Sersha Ronan and Gemma Arderton and Caleb Landry Jones that is loved by me and anybody else who saw it, but nobody really saw it so um but i remember i feel like anybody i i don't think i've ever seen people like shit on it who have seen it it's either the people who saw it and liked it or the people who

just didn't see it or never heard of it at all seek it out it's really good um 2018 is gretta which you've seen and i've seen and fun fucking talk isabel who pair not great is not great let's be real it's not great but isabellu time isabelle who pair is having the time of her life with the millennials. It's a movie about how she lures in women with handbags and hides them in trunks in her home. It's the movie that made me realize that Isabelle Lupeer would have made a phenomenal haggsploitation star, like, genuinely would have ruled. The movie's not not, not, it is. It definitely is.

She shoots a man in the head and then does like a ballerina twirl. It's exactly what you think it is, but it's fun. And then 2022, Neil Jordan directs a neo-noir film with a screenplay by William Monaghan starring Liam Neeson and Jessica Lang and Diane Kruger, and it all seemed to have good ingredients, and it was called Marlowe, and everybody seemed to hate it. It's supposed to be dogs. I haven't seen it, but, like, everybody seemed to hate it, which is too bad. Along the way, he did a bunch of, or at least a couple of television shows, most notably the Borgias, which ran for three seasons.

It was one of those, like, oh, that's still on on Showtime. Sometimes things just exist on Showtime. And you're like, that was, that movie kind of existed in the wake of the Tudors. And I imagine some people just don't differentiate between the two that, like, oh, Like that show, that's the Tudors, right? And it's no, you're thinking of the Borgia. It's just these reverberations across multiple, you know, pay cable networks. But also, like, even that was precipitated by Rome.

Right, right, which was HBO, which was a whole other thing. But the Borgias particularly, I remember Neil Jordan was rumored to be in the works of making a movie about the Borgias forever, for years and years and years dating back to, like, the early aughts. and like I remember at one point Christina Ricci was connected to it and at some point I think Johnny Depp was connected to it and it was I just through the years it went

through like all sorts of different iterations and was never able I think Scarlett Johansson was attached at one point and it just never came together as a feature film and ultimately existed as a TV show

So, yeah, Neil Jordan's an interesting, an interesting cat as a filmmaker, I feel like. And looping back, Owen Glyberman gave In Dreams a C-minus, which probably means, because it's him, it is an A-plus. Go check it out. I do remember seeing it and being like, huh. I remember it getting a really, really bad, you know, something in Entertainment Weekly. maybe Lisa put it on her like worst of the air list or something that's very possible yeah I remember the reviews were definitely mixed there that was during Annette Benning's short hair severe personality era where she also did the siege you remember the siege

which is a movie I think that's a solid B minus of a movie but like I've seen most of that movie on cable a lot like that's a movie where like if I come upon it, I'm just like, yeah, I'll watch the siege for a while, sure. Good, solid little... Let's talk about Killian Murphy. Let's do. Because Killian Murphy is also a very interesting run of movies. This is also the same year as Batman begins with, like, the most superfluous Batman

villain ever on screen, maybe. He's so good in the role, though. Like, I got to say. Like, Jonathan Creme... He's so good in the role and, like, got that because he was... was so good in his Batman audition that they were like, well, we'll just put you in here because you're good. And then he's, you know,

like the staple. He's the one who shows up in all three of the movies. He's very, very briefly in the Dark Night. But then, like, has one of my favorite parts of the Dark Night rises is when Jonathan Crane returns in this sort of, you know, occupied city on top of this like pile of bureaucracy desks and whatever that is like and handing down judgment on the law enforcement officials of Gotham.

Maybe the one good thing about Dark Night Rises that isn't Ann Hathaway. I like a lot of things about Dark Night Rises, but that is definitely my favorite thing. I definitely, the more times, I've seen that movie maybe like three times now, and I've liked it better every time. But anyway, he also in 2005 has Red Eye,

the West Craven movie Red Eye, where he is terrifying as the villain. That is a, I, every time I try and say that movie's running time, I get it shorter and shorter. Like, at some point, I'm just going to start saying that Red Eye is 67 minutes long, even though it is, it's a, it's a tight, it's a tight 85. And like, it does the job. It really, um, the, uh, the, uh, it's so taught and suspenseful.

and Rachel McAdams rules and Killian Murphy rules and the best thriller that also stars Colby Donaldson from Survivor in a small role like it genuinely it gets it done So we are somewhat getting ahead of ourselves

Even though 2005 The same year's Breakfast of Pluto Is like this huge year for Killian Murphy But it all starts He'd had, you know, roles in smaller movies That we haven't heard of But it all starts with 28 days later Which comes out in the UK

in 2002 is big in the States in 2003. One thing I want to mention, though, in 2001, he's in a film adaptation of the Enda Walsh play Disco Pigs, which actually was Murphy's very first professional acting gig, was the stage production of Disco Pigs, which is really interesting, that he sort of was able to take a lead role like that right out of the gate, really sort of shows the kind of potentially it was in. But yeah, that's the first time anybody really saw him in anything, in any kind of wide respect was 28 days later.

Which is not really an actor's movie, even though all of the actors in it are very good. You know what I mean? But it's a movie that is, that's a director's movie. You know what I mean? That is a cinematographer's movie. We talked about it when we did 100 Snubs, Anthony Dodd Mantle's digital cinematography in it is stunning.

John Murphy's score is tremendous. But out of that movie comes movie star, Killian Murphy, or at least like, you know, suddenly castable in everything, Killian Murphy. Naomi Harris breaks through in that movie. Brendan Gleason even, like, he's an actor who had been around the block in a bunch of things. But, like, he has a breakout potential from that movie. for Eccleston, who had already been... Brendan Gleason, who, in Breakfast on Pluto, shows up in the ideal way you want

Brendan Gleason to show up inside a giant animal suit as a children's entertainer. I think that casting is maybe not ideal for Breakfast on Pluto in that it contributes to that pacing problem that you were talking about, where it's like, if that role isn't cast as Brendan Gleason, you maybe don't... think that it should be more prominent than it is. But if you are going to cast Brendan Gleason, like,

do something with that character. And ultimately... Yeah, because it makes it feel like this is... It makes it feel like it's a stop and start type of thing. I'm never going to not be happy to see Brendan Gleason because he's fantastic. But... What a nice man.

Yeah. Yeah, wonderful. But yeah, Killian Murphy starts popping up in a ton of things, Girl with a Pearl Earing and Cold Mountain. And the three movies we mentioned in 2005, which is Breakfast on Pluto, Batman Begins, and Red Eye.

And then, 06, he's the lead in the aforementioned Ken Loach, Palm Door winner, the wind that shakes the barley. So he's kind of in that realm, right? He's the lead in Irish and English movies, mostly Irish. And then he's either a featured villain or a supporting character in American movies or like big time indies like Cold Mountain. And he's a favorite of Danny Boyle.

He's the... Sunshine is a pretty pure ensemble, but I think of... Among equals, Killian Murphy's Kappa is probably the most lead in that movie. He's the one who... I really got to watch Sunshine. Oh, Chris, it's so good.

I know. I know you love that movie. I adore that movie. It's tremendous. And all its messiness. I really love it. And then, interestingly enough, where you might have expected the Batman-begins Jonathan Crane role to really kind of launch him into American features, it doesn't really happen. He's just sort of like he's Nolan's guy for a while, right? he's the billionaire Sion in Inception

and he is comes back as Jonathan Crane in The Dark Nick Rises he's in Dunkirk in a small but pivotal role then obviously Oppenheimer's the big thing but like other than that his appearances in major motion pictures or even like featured indies kind of dries up right he's in in time but not in a lead role he's in um transcendence

which is the uh wally fister movie which is sort of like being in a christopher nolan movie but not christopher nolan movie uh but that's again not the lead role on that he's one of the people in the uh the herman melville biopic uh in the heart of the sea he's in uh the Ben Wheatley movie Free Fire that everybody seemed to hate but me. He's just in a lot of sort of smaller movies, maybe movies that were a little bit bigger, a little bit bigger of a deal in the UK. And then 2020, he sort of pops back up in a quiet place part two as the sort of featured non, like, the featured new character, right?

He's the most prominent of the new characters in A Quiet Place Part 2. And it's like, I at least thought, I who, you know, liked a Quiet Place Part 2 better than other people did, I was like, oh, it's so nice to see Killian Murphy back in a big movie again. Even though he had, like, Dunkirk was certainly a big movie, but he's like, you know. And Peeky Blinders has its fans. Well, but that's the thing. So, like, starting in 2013 is Peaky Blinders. But, like, even by 2013, the Dark, or the Batman Begins was eight years before that. So it was still kind of a, a little bit, excuse me, a little bit of a fallow period.

But, yeah, Peaky Blinders, then happens in 2013. And is one of those Netflix shows that's like, you kind of wouldn't believe it. But, like, a lot of people are watching peekie blinders. There are two types of Netflix hits. there's the ones they're bullshining you about and then there are the ones that are like you would be surprised how big of a hit this is

and Peeky Blinders is one of the latter ones Ozark was one of those ones too where it's like are people watching Ozark and then three years later you're like oh a lot of people are watching Ozark okay everyone watches Ozark like people in the office

they're like love Ozark blah blah blah and then you're like succession and they're like what? Yeah yeah exactly but yeah Peaky Blinders is one of those like low-key really popular shows and it goes forever. It gets eight seasons, no six seasons

but it runs over the course of like eight years essentially it's one of those it's a classically UK show and that like six seasons 36 total episodes you know what I mean so it's like but it

probably a TV show should be also the cast list of it if you look and see like, because again, Piki Blinders is not a show that I watch. I love Killian Murphy but I organized crime shows

like this. I think I recapped a lot of Board Rock Empire and that burned me out on shows like this where it's just sort of like hard-scrabble you know bootleggers or I don't know exactly what the central

criminal empire is in Peky Blinders, but like, I don't know. It's, excuse me, I don't know, but anyway, the cast in this, where it's like, Killion Murphy's in it, Sam Neal's in it, Helen McCrory, the late Helen McCrory is in this movie, or in this show, Tom Hardy shows up at some point, and our friend, wait, no, Finn Cole isn't the one in, in, in, that's Joe Cole, is the one in, secret in their eyes. Are they brothers, though? No idea. Okay. Let me see. Wikipedia's, yes, they are brothers. Look at that, Joe Cole and Fincolle. Patty Considine's in it, and Adrian Brody shows up in it, and Aidan Gillen, and Anya Taylor Joy, and Kingsley Benedere, and Sam Claflin, and Katie Dickie from Game of Thrones, and James Frenchville from Animal Kingdom, and Stephen Graham from the aforementioned, uh, borderic empire, among other things.

Darrell McCormick, our haughty from Good Luck to You, Leo Grande, who was in it. So it's a show that employed a lot of actors who I really love. You know what I mean? And I appreciate it for it. I didn't have to watch six seasons of Peaky Blinders to be happy that it existed. That's a show that my husband watches. And as I'm coming in and out of the room, it's like, I get it. I get it.

Though I would, like, stop and watch a few scenes when Helen McCrory would show up. Well, of course. Helen McCrory, though, was in, if you want to show that you could watch Helen McCrory in, just go watch Penny Dreadful for speaking of shows that aired on Showtime. I know. Again, Showtime. It's like, I have all of these Showtime. What a great show.

Find a way. Knowing the way that the streaming universe exists right now, it's a, a better than even chance that it's been pulled, which I should go and check and make sure that that's available somewhere because I'm going to raise holy hell if it's not Penny Dredgeville.

Showtime, one of the ones that's pulling things. I think eventually they're all going to start pulling things. Paramount Plus at least. With the news that HBO is going to license things out, fucking David's Azliff, you dirty-ass piece of shit. The fact that HBO will now be licensing out their stuff, and it's like

they're no longer HBO then. I mean, like, it's just not, you know, that's part of, exclusivity is part of what gave HBO its identity. Here's the other thing. Like, I realize, if you're asking people to sign up for a streaming platform in 2023 and your, your HBO, as you say, which, like, predicates itself on the exclusivity, the only reason you're going to sign up for HBO Max, Max, now, is because there are, it's the only, way you're going to be able to watch certain shows. And yet, Netflix is the one they already are paying for. I know there's all this talk about people like dropping their Netflix

subscriptions, but I think in general, you need to give reason for people who are already signed up for Netflix to also pay for Max. And if they can watch your HBO shows on Netflix, now all of a sudden they don't have to pay for your streaming platform. So like, congratulations

David Zazelav. You played yourself. And it's not like they're I mean, and I'm sure it's all going to come in different tiers and I realize that like these, you know, the streamers have to figure out how to make money, et cetera. But like they're not, you know, licensing out the mind of the married man. Right. Right. They're licensing out insecure, which is like a top tier HBO show. Like, what are you doing?

What, indeed, are you doing? Yeah, it's stupid. It's very stupid. Pulling things back, though, to Breakfast on Pluto for a second, because I want to talk about... It did show up throughout awards season sporadically, right? Killian Murphy is nominated for the Golden Globe. In comedy, which...

I would... I mean, like, this is a whimsical light-hearted movie for a lot of it. But I would more so... be on board if you were like breakfast on Pluto is a musical because there is non-stop music. Here's what I will tell you if you're imagining a golden globe voter who is voting based on the cocktail party they just attended

and not based on the movie they just watched I imagine that they'll be like oh breakfast on Pluto that's a musical right? Okay, so we'll dominate it in musical. Yeah, the poster is all neon colors. Yeah, yeah. That seems very much like Sony Classics maneuvering tactics to me. Well, I mean Also, the fellow nominees

Like, Joaquin Phoenix wins, you know, they're calling Walk the Line of Musical, which would feel less fraught to me If there weren't, you know, constant back and forth With movies like Ray I was going to say, this comes exactly the next year after Ray, which also gets a bullshity musical or comedy distinction. So, like, I don't know.

We've had that argument before, and I think I think I'm right, I just feel like the back and forth with category placement for those type of movies is what makes it complicated, confusing. Also nominated Jeff Daniels for The Squid and the Whale, Johnny Depp for Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, Nathan Lane for

the producers, and Pierce Brosnan for the Matador. Is that one of those years that Johnny Depp gets nominated twice? Was he in a drama that year? No, Finding Neverland was the year before. Charlie I'm a chocolate factory, man. That was, I think, the movie where it all started to turn for both Johnny Depp and Tim Burton. Like, as we learned, I'm a defender of this Charlie and the Chocolate Factory.

All right. I'm curious to hear it. I mean, I grew up more, I'm someone who grew up more so with the book than I did the movie. And I do think while it's ugly to look at. And I don't necessarily think that that's not intentional. Sure. I do think it's truer to the spirit of the book in a way. And like the umpalumpa songs being directly lifted from the book as well felt truer to my experience of what the Willy Wonka story.

And I, as somebody who never read the book and only ever saw the movie, like it makes sense that the two of us come down differently on that. But I do feel, like, popularly, like, within popular culture, that movie. That was a turning point for, because Johnny Depp had really, the Pirates of the Caribbean breakthrough was only a couple years before this. But, like, this is when at least people started to raise eyebrows and being like, are we just letting Johnny Depp do whatever he wants now? Like, what's going on? Because the whole performance is like a Michael Jackson riff, which. Which didn't... Is a choice.

It's a real choice. And I think with Tim Burton the same way, where it's just like, we have... We're very comfortable with sort of giving Tim Burton carte blanche to do whatever. But sometimes maybe rain it in Tim a little bit is I think what the sort of the pop culture take on Charlie on the Chocolate Factory was. I am so not... I just... Beetlejuice, too, is one of the most fucking depressing thing. I mean, like, I want to believe, but I do not believe.

Oh, I don't believe at all. No. No. Like, it's so depressing. It's so depressing. No. I mean, there's no two ways about it. It is, it's in a nutshell, everything that is a bummer about the way that these great

filmmakers aren't making new things. They are going back and remaking their old. things, that everything is just going to be an endless cycle of, the things you love, but 25 years older and a good deal chintier than they were back then.

And exactly like the other revival reboot piece of shit that you saw last week. Like even Jennifer Lawrence, who I'm so happy to see her doing something like no hard feelings and like crushing it, is like, yeah, sure, I'll play Catanus again.

Well, the reviving the franchise I would rather chew glass. Like, you notice she doesn't say that about Mystique, though. She has no interest in doing that again. She said, bye-bye. You know, and you know what? Jennifer Lawrence has earned some leeway from me,

but I agree with you. And that, like, just, it's so, it was so exciting to go back to No Hard Feelings one last time in this episode. It was so exciting to watch an actor get to do something that she's great at, that you had forgotten that she's great at, because she had sort of

like drifted from that for a while, and just get to take on a brand new thing and surprise you a little bit. Even the moments in the movie that are a little crunch. Yeah. Like the first 15, 20 minutes of the movie, it is a little crunchy because it's like her saying things like, I really just can't lose my house.

And it's like, okay, we can, we can. Yeah, you're, it's, but like, when the movie gets going, it's, it's great. It's a testament to how far you can get on to really charismaticly performances, too. Like, it's just, it's really, really shockingly good chemistry from a 21-year-old actor and a Oscar-winning movie star. Like, it's kind of incredible how well they get on together. It's, it's good job. And the Oscars and the Jimmy Awards coming together to entertain us all. At long last.

At long last. Breakfast on Pluto is also a national board review citation that year, where it gets recognized... Recently mentioned in our Everything is Illuminated episode. Yeah, it's one of the special recognition for excellence in filmmaking, which again is what their... Monty Burns... Right. Monty Burns' Achievement and Excellence Award. But it's also what their top ten indie films list was before... It was called that.

And, yeah, we went through this when we did our everything as illuminated episodes. We don't really need to go through it quite as much yet again. I wanted to talk about this movie as a player of TIF because I looked up, because I was like, I bet this was a TIF gala. It's not. It's from the master's section, which rest in peace, they should bring that back. Because now it just feels like, you know, you have these movies that are just in these kind of nomad land of where they're going to throw them around rather than, like,

Like, you put a movie in a section called Masters, and it's like, this is why you kind of show up to some of these movies. I will admit with TIF before you continue, I usually don't differentiate. Like, at some point, I'm just sort of like, everything goes into the TIF bucket, and I can see everything wherever it plays. But, like, I appreciate that you have more of an institutional memory of this kind of thing, because I do feel like it is, especially looking back, it's interesting to see how these films and these filmmakers, were anticipated by the TIF programmers. Right, right. And, like, I think it also, like, shows how Breakfast on Pluto would have been somewhat positioned as well as it, you know, arrived to the world. But, like, it's, you know, put in a section alongside Brokeback Mountain, Michelle Hanukkah's, cachet, the Palm Winner L'Enfant from the Dardins.

I hate that movie. Oh, do you? I've never seen it. What's so bad about it? I just, I am either completely not on board or fully on board with the Dardins, and there is no middle ground. This was a movie I was not on board with because it's just, to me, so contrived of just what the morality play is that you're watching. And it's, I just, I wasn't on board for it. But, like, also people like Lars von Trier, Soderberg, the Scorsese Bob Dylan.

villain doc. I think even though as a, you know, a festival ticket buyer, you're just showing up to the movie. But like when you're positioning a movie and getting people to watch it, like, I agree. Yeah. I do think it's significant. Yeah. Well, and it's interesting to look at the sort of wide range of ultimate outcomes for those movies, right? Where like Brokeback Mountain is a major Oscar player and a huge big deal throughout the rest of the year. Keshe is the big foreign language critical. darling throughout much of the rest of the year. And then you get like the conversation around Lars Van Trier's mandirley is a lot of a lot more complicated and a lot more right. And Stephen Soderberg's

bubble is an interesting curiosity and people are like, what is Soderberg doing in this phase of his career right now? Terry Gilliam's Tideland is seen as an abomination. Right. I don't think I've ever seen seen Tidland, but this was definitely during the

time period where like can Terry Gilliam ever actually get a movie made because everything just seemed to be these like long periods of um although when was brothers grim around this maybe a monster well knows um yeah he's a monster uh but that stuff didn't start coming out until much much later um brothers grim would have been around this time though right right because brothers grim was before broke back mountain because i remember that movie being like seeing that movie and being like, maybe Heath Ledger's got more going on than I thought, because Heath Ledger really was like 10 Things I Hate About You, a Knight's Tale, kind of like a brash teen heartthrob kind of a guy. And then I remember seeing Brothers Grimm, and I'm like,

oh, he's weirder than I gave him credit for as an actor. He's much more comfortable going to these weird places. And then right after that was Brokeback Mountain. And then it's like, oh, no, he's like, he's incredible. Brothers Grim, not successful on movies. terms, but still very watchable, partly because of those stars. Yeah, yeah. I liked it. And Monica Balucci plays a villain. Like, when are you not going to like a movie?

She's a villain, right? I'm pretty sure, right? Or something? She's certainly costumed like a vampire. Okay. Very good. All right. Anything else we want to say about Breakfast on Pluto?

We're ultimately... We didn't really talk about Killian Murphy's performance. Yes, okay. Let's do that. How we kind of designated it as he... It's compelling to watch him. We can talk about that in the context of what we ultimately thought of the movie, because I think both of them sort of go hand in hand. I mean, I definitely feel like it is a very affected performance.

It feels like he's putting on a voice. While I don't, I wouldn't lump it into the category of, like, Jared Leto in Dallas Spires Club, where it feels like self-conscious in a way of, like, look at how good I'm doing. Look at this creative, you know, it's, I do, it's a performance that, though, I feel like he's adding affectations to it. It does feel well-intended. It's interesting that you say it in that way, though. Not to interrupt you, but I think this is interesting context, and I want to hear what you think of this, is in a lot of his interviews. You know how sort of actors in the interviews they have their sort of thing that they say in all of them, which is as somebody. I don't know what hundred people in a room you're talking about.

As somebody who would come home for the holidays from New York and hear myself telling the same exact spiel to every single relative and want to absolutely kill myself because I sound so boring saying the exact same verbiage, I get it. But he talked about when doing press for Breakfast on Pluto that he played kitten and distinguished between, distinguished between playing her as feminine as opposed to effeminate. and that he had described the difference as that a feminine is more of an affectation and feminine is more of a lived-in identity. And I thought that was interesting because I think I'm more on board with your take on it, which is that it is, it does still come off as affectation. But it does feel like there's maybe some well-meaning intention behind it. Totally. Oh, I absolutely think so.

It's, you know, while we've, you know, gained awareness about, like, who's telling what stories, et cetera, it, this, I think is less embarrassing than... But I also feel like, and I'm going to bring up a name of somebody who you hate, I also feel like somebody like Eddie Redmayne had very good intentions going into playing his character and the Danish girl. Do you know what I mean? Like, I think, I don't ascribe... Is that like, it's the same, like, overrunner. performance that he gives in everything else? I mean, maybe. But I don't think Eddie Redmayne goes into the Danish girl with an intent to sort of trample

on that character for his own ends. I think Eddie Redmayne goes into that movie with the same intention that I think Killian Murphy goes into playing kitten and Breakfast on Pluto. And there are moments where the latter reminds me of the former a little bit. ultimately Murphy is able to bring out more of a lived-in character, while at the same time recognizing the fact that if we are ultimately going to take kitten as a trans character, that there are nuances in lived experience that could be much more effectively and epithetically played by a trans performer.

Like, we can just, I don't, I don't think you disagree with that. I think that's something we, we, are both on the same page about. While at the same time, recognizing the fact that, like, that's not the movie we got, so let's talk about the movie we got. Well, and, like, while I feel like we're talking about the movie that maybe has gotten Killian Murphy the most recognition for him as a performer, I wouldn't put this near, anywhere near the best performances he's given. No, I

agree. I think it's... Which is like true of most performers, especially when you're talking about this type of material. Sure, sure. There are moments I rented, I don't know where you rented this to watch it, I rented it on Amazon. The sort of splash

image of it when you go to rent it on Amazon of kittens sort of done up with you know, makeup and a wig and whatever looks so much like Taylor Swift. it kind of took me aback for a second and I wouldn't have

breakfast on Pluto Taylor's version but I think there's there are moments when it's like you're putting on the voice in a way that sometimes feels like

this would make sense when Patrick is trying out like sort of like emergent like is more of an emerging flower

right in in Kitten's life and then later in the movie I think by the end of the movie there are a couple really really lovely

scenes especially the one where Kitten is talking to young Patrick his mother's younger child that she seems

much more comfortable in her own skin and in her own identity. And, like, that to me shows a conscious evolution over the course of the movie. I still feel like it lingers far too long in the movie where Kitten is coming across as overwrought in her presentation as herself, if that makes sense. It does.

I think that maybe works better if the movie's better. Yeah. Yes. Yeah, I think that's true. And I mean, I think some of what you're talking about, too, you know, the, like, formative stages of identity. Yeah. Kaly and Murphy is also not de-aging, but, you know, playing younger. Yeah.

Yeah. And so, like, that's always a little, you know, awkward and crunchy. I also want to say that without making a value judgment on the. righteousness or the necessity of anything that the IRA embarked upon in their political struggles, how horrible, how horrible and horrifying to experience a moment of explosive violence just as you're about to maybe kiss Dominic Cooper on a dance floor. Like that's, that feels especially crushing. in that moment.

I like that scene. I like that scene in general. I thought that was very good. The shattering disco ball was a little much. Oh, I meant like the lead up to it. Like the kitten and Dominic Cooper at the bar and sort of like there are moments like that. I thought the same thing when Kitten and the glam rock guy are sort of dancing outside the van. And all his band members are sort of gawking at them from the hotel above.

And there are. There are scenes and moments of physical intimacy that feel honest in a way that I appreciate it. Yeah. Yeah. So there we go. Should we move on to the IMTV game? Yeah, I want to mention one other note that I wrote down, which is there's a moment when Kitten is performing on stage with the glam rock guy, where she's dressed up as, in her words, a squaw. Like, the glam rock guy is dressed up as a cowboy, and she's, or sort of like this, like, medicine hat type, like, you know, drifter or whatever.

All the imagery and these glam things are very, like, patchworky and a lot of it. But, like, kittens dressed up as a squat. And I just wrote down Sashi and Little Feather Ass because, like, that at some point was just, like, probably around that same time period, right? Like, the 73. Oh, so, like that was her drag inspiration, then. Yeah, probably. Probably. No, probably not literally, but yes, that's what I was thinking.

A Knight of a Thousand Sashing Little Feathers, and Kit and Brady took first place. All right. Should I mention how we play the IMDB game? Yes, you should. All right. We end our episodes every week with the IMDB game, where we challenge each other with an actor or actress to try and guess the top four titles that IMD says they are most known for.

If any of those titles are television, voice-only performances, non-acting credits. We mentioned that up front. After two wrong guesses, we get the remaining titles release years as a clue. And if that's not enough, it just becomes a free for all of hints. That's the IGP game. Are you giving or guessing first today, sir? I'll guess first. All right. So, uh, as we are talking about this, uh, for Killian Murphy in the release of Oppenheimer, I went into the shockingly massive, uh, name. I was going to say, how could you How could you pick one name out of the Oppenheimer cast? Well, I was like, you know, we're at a stage where we're having to basically duplicate names that we've done before.

I said, surely someone in Oppenheimer we have not done that has name recognition. And this is true. Though, if you just go through that cast list for that movie, it's just like the names don't stop of just people that are in this movie that you didn't know or in the movie. they're probably all in one scene. By the time the movie opens, the movie will be in general release and they will still be adding names to this list of people who are in it.

They're probably still filming more people to be like, who can we get to just add to this movie? Olivia Thorleys in this movie. Oh, my God. Literally. She just showed up in the trailer for something else that I watched

a trailer for yesterday. What was it? Shit, hold on a second. I want to mention this. Fuck, what is it? it's where literally I was like

wait a second Olivia Thirlby's having a moment again this is great sorry this is annoying I don't know I'll come back later I don't know what it is

all right cool I did not choose Olivia Thirlby for you I chose Matthew Modine Matthew Modine, that's amazing. All right, I love that. Okay.

All right, Matthew Modine. I imagine that full metal jacket is one of them. Full metal jacket, correct. Okay. No television? There's no television. Not even like an HBO movie? No.

So no way on the band played on. Okay. Matthew Modine. Is he in Good Morning, Vietnam? Let me... It's not there. It's not bad, so it won't count as an incorrect answer if he is not in the movie. You play by that rule, and I don't play by that rule.

I find that very interesting. I think it's only fair. No, because a wrong guess is a wrong guess as far as I'm concerned. Yeah, but you could be like... I feel like it's a route to cheating. Okay. To, like, getting your years. Oh, I see.

You could be like, Matthew Modine. He's in... Citizen Kane. Yeah, right, right, exactly. Okay. So, no, I'm not counting that, but no, he is not. He's not in... Good morning, Vietnam.

I feel like there's a movie where I can imagine him in, like, glasses behind a desk in a military uniform. But anyway... You mean, like, full metal jacket? No, he's in the field in full metal. jacket um i'm sure he's at a desk at some point maybe okay um all right he's not a desk but he's at a barber chair right when they they shave everyone they do yeah the thing about matthew modin is he's so like middle of the road like you didn't get kevin klein so we're going to give you

matthew modine like that kind of thing no offense against uh mr modine um or like you Two of these movies, I would say, are along those lines. One of them, it's like, ah, yes, we will make a star of Matthew Modin. Right. There's also a lot of, like, 90s movies where I was like, was Matthew Modin the guy in this, where it's like, is he the guy in Jennifer 8? Is he the guy in unlawful entry? See, I told you I was, this is the retribution. I have finally come back to give you what I think is.

difficult. Yeah, yes, you have. Good for you. I hope you feel good about yourself. I do. Shit. He really is. Okay, wait, desperately seeking Susan. Um, he is. Hold on. He's the guy in that, right? He's not. Who's the guy in desperately seeking Susan? Aiden Quinn? I don't know. This is the problem with Matthew Modine. God damn it. Um, see, he's not a twink, but Like, Matthew Modine or Aiden Quinn would be a great game for... I know. I know.

I know. Oh, my God. That's true. Matthew Modine, Kevin Klein, or Aiden Quinn would be incredible. Yes. Oh, my God. Truly. Okay.

Shit. All I'm picturing him is, like, in the various, like, HBO movies that he was in, which, like, won't count. Because he's also in too big to fail. Fuck. I can go. give you I maybe I'll okay I'll give you

yeah give me let let those incorrect guesses be incorrect guesses give me years 1995 2012 and 2017 Jesus two teens movies one of these movies we have talked about on this episode

1995 is exactly a thing I'm talking about where it's like he could be this is a pretty distinct 1995 in his filmography okay was it like this is a notorious movie notorious bad maybe like gen z has never heard of this but like our generation knows about this movie okay 95 like you know about this movie but i would fully believe it if you have never seen it so not an oscar movie no not a blockbuster definitely not so a bomb oh a bomb. Cutthroat Island.

Cutthroat Island. Sank Carol Co. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Cutthroat Island. See? The thing about Cutthroat Island is like who's going to show up for your pirate adventure? Cutthroat Island absolutely could have been Kevin Klein. You know what I mean? Like this is the thing that I'm talking about. Yeah. I mean, Pirates of Pensance. Okay.

I mean, I would show up for a pirate movie and I did because I've seen Cutthroat Island with Gina Davis. But like, Matthew Modine is the romantic boy. I know. I'm saying. All right. 2012 and 2017 is he like definitely supporting in both of those like

Oh yes 2012 I would be willing to bet he has two scenes in 2012 is the movie that we've talked about on this episode Oh 2012 is the Dark Night Rises

It is the Dark Night Rises Yeah okay 2017 is a movie that I would You possibly have not seen it, but I do think you know of this movie. I do believe it spawned a sequel.

And this movie was compared to another significantly better movie that especially the gays flocked to and defended. Not defended, but like the gays were like

yes, that movie was a sleigh because of its lead actress. Because of its lead actress. So like... Because of its lead actress who is like a name everybody knows, but in terms of being cast in movies is not a list. B. B. B. rexa. No.

This is like the B.B. Rexa to Kate Hudson. What does that mean? I don't know. The B.B. Rexa to Kate Hudson is Britain's... Maybe that's not fair. Maybe she's not the... Okay. Yes, this is why she's not the B.B. Rexa to Kate Hudson. She's like the

If B.B. Rexa is the C tier and Lady Gaga is the A tier, who's the B tier? Ariana Grande. I think some people are going to want to kill you for that. Yeah, come at me. We can go with that. F slurs. Okay.

You have Kate Hudson, this actress, Britney Snow. Love Britney Snow. No, I think Britney Snow is great. Britney Snow rules. So your B tier of that. That is... Partly because she never really broke through with movies, though she's been very, very good in movies,

and including the movie that we're comparing... Is acting... We're falling down so many rabbit holes to get you to this Matthew movie. Wait, is acting this actress's only avenue? I'm sure that there's, like, you know, SpawnCon. Oh, but not like... But not like an album somewhere, or like... No, no.

but this is this is someone who got famous through TV and I think people always think of this as a TV actress even though it's been good in other movies like network regular network TV or like CW a regular network TV show but you almost got there but like younger ABC family ABC oh no no no CW CW yeah so a CW star um but like Alexis Sploddell is not the B version of Kate Hudson. You're getting closer. Lauren Graham? No. Oh, but another sister of the traveling pants, Blake Lively. Yes. Okay.

So it's a Blake Lively... So, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. This is one of two movies, both of which were latched on to... Matthew Modeen is not in the movie that Blake Lively is in, but the movie that Matthew Maudine is in. was compared negatively to the movie that Blake Lively was in. Are we talking about the shark movie or the Age of Adelaide? We're talking about the shark movie.

We've got it. Okay. So Matthew Modeen is in a shark movie that's not as good as the shallows. A shark movie that does have a pop girlie in it. In 2017, was it the Meg? I would say, and what's weird about this pop girlie is, as a pop girlie considered C-tier, but I think definitely B-plus quality.

Oh. But was getting famous again for, like Blake Lively, being on a TV show around this time. So many clues. Okay. A TV show that was like Uber popular. What was Jesse Ware in on television? Not Jesse Ware.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no. I'm kidding. This is, like, this is Pop Girlie, who's, like, contemporaries at the time of their career would have been Brittany, Christina, vitamin C. Mandy Moore. Mandy Moore. Matthew Modine. Sharks. I saw this movie.

It's the title that I can't remember. Terrible shark movie. I kind of liked it. I thought it was good. It's the one with, they're in the cage, right? They're in the cage. Yes. 30 meters below?

How many meters? 47 meters down. 47 meters down. I'm bad at measurements. So, yeah. Who the fuck is Matthew Modine in 47 meters down? Is he the cage? Is he the shark?

Captain Taylor. God damn it. That's absurd. Absolutely absurd. Matthew Modine's known for full metal jacket, cutthroat island, the dark night rises and 47 meters down. I'll say this.

I saw 47 meters down in theaters and I only saw the shallows on demand. So let's say that. The shallows is not as good as gay people made it out to be, but the shallows is good. Well, gay people made the shallows out to be like cries and whispers, so no, it wasn't quite as good, but it's still good. It was a good fun time at the movies. All right. For you, Christopher, I, in your honor, I revisited Neil Jordan's Greta. Good time at the movies.

Great time at the movies personified. Not Isabelle Luper, but her on-screen counterpart and object of obsession, who we somehow have never done, Ms. Chloe Grace Moretz. Okay. This, I actually think, is going to be difficult because there are actually a lot. She got cast in Autonogne. She still does. Kick ass. Yes.

Boo. Yes. Five hundred days of summer. No. Not 500 years of summer. Where she plays the role of shut up. Like, that's genuinely her character in 500 days of summer. I'm tempted to say the miseducation of Cameron Post because she's title character.

Plus, she does so well singing Everything is Everything in that movie. Because the miseducation. God. I'm leaving this call right now I'm ending this podcast. I am going to I'm going to set you on fire when I see you for that joke.

I'm going to immolate you in the streets of Toronto. You're one for one. Okay. Or no, you're one for two. You're one strike. Yeah, I'm going to keep that one in my back pocket. She's been in like movies

that have made money is the thing. People are mean to her. Clouds of Sales Maria, I'll just say that. No, strike two. So your years are going to be 2010, 2013, 2014. Okay, so not miseducation of Cameron Post. So these are all, they'll be post 500 days of summer. Is one of them kick-ass two?

No, not kick-ass two. Okay. I'll say this. Two of them are remakes. Prom night? Was she in prom night? No, Britney Snow is in prom night. Yes.

What else was remade around that time? Definitely at least one of those is horror. I will say yes, correct. You are correct in your assumption. Horror remakes from that time. It's not like my bloody Valentine. It's not Friday the 13th. It's not Nightmare on Elm Street.

Get out of the franchises. Yeah, okay. Those are just the ones I could recall off the bat. Well, and also, this was the era where all of those were getting remade. Right. And they were all bad. Neither one of these two remakes is seen as good as the original, although one of them I think got

better reception than others. Probably at least one of them is like stupid fun. Well, yeah, but that's, I think the one that's stupid fun is the less reviewed of the two of them. Oh, interesting. The one that was well reviewed, I've actually never seen.

I've only ever seen the original. But there's one of, so both, there's two horror remakes on there. Yeah, they're both horror. They're both horror. Okay. Are they slas, Or are they...

No. Okay, this helps. Obviously not poltergeist. No, not franchises. Neither one of these originals ever got sequels. Carrie. Carrie, correct. She is the titular Carrie. Which I'm presuming is the one that you think is less, is not fun, or you think that's fun.

I think it's fun. I don't think people liked that, Carrie, but I think it's dumb fun. if you surrender all your reverence for the original. Right. Is she also a title character in the other one? No. Well, no. So she's a lead? Yeah.

But not a title character, but you had pause. Well, one of the words in the title... Presumes her. Yes. refers to her. So it's like Rosemary's baby, the titular character is

the baby, not Rosemary. Ooh, I know this is right there. It's even more sort of reflexively pronounable. Uh-huh. So like a her or she in the title. Right. But, but

if one were in the first person my or I me yes remember me not remember me that's Emily de Raven it's not track me to hell

that's Allison Lohman it's me remake of a foreign language film oh she's in one of these it's

a very well liked foreign language film I will say although maybe this is not I don't know if you like this original as much as other people do probably is my guess because I don't think I ever really heard you talk about it

it's a is it a remake of an Asian horror film I will say the male lead in this was Oscar nominated within the last two years. Ah. I don't know if that'll help me. Got their first Oscar nomination

in 2021. Before a 2021 movie. Okay. So someone young from 2021, probably, presumably. Chloe Moretz has worked so much, though, that I don't know if that'll help me. The director of this movie has directed a lot, including one particular franchise that did very well at the box office, even though, and with good movies, but even though I find that those movies kind of fade out of my memory after I've watched them. but as a good director I like this guy as a director

Why can't I get there Okay Two years ago Man that was nominated for an Oscar Presumably in the age range of Chloe Moritz Yes Correct

I'm just drawing a blank I made a little more coffee. Okay. Younger first time nominee one of four acting nominees for

that movie. From two years ago that was shit. So this would have been the CODA year. Oh, it's let me in. It's let me in.

Which is really, really good. I know people were against that movie. I also read the book of that and like... Are you a fan of the original? Yes. Okay. I didn't realize it. I think they're both very good. I think they're just doing different things.

To connect the dots for the listeners, Cody Smith-McPhee is the male lead and let me in. Cody Smith-McFee's. Directed by Matt Reeves, right? Matt Reeves, who did the Planet of the Apes movies and also the Batman. Yes. So you're still missing. The Giacchino score in that movie is fucking tremendous. Yeah, it's very good Giacchino score. With like a pretty big assist from

the Nirvana catalog, but yes. All right, you're missing one movie still, the 2014 movie. Which is... Wild that let me in is on there, considering that bombed in people... The 2014 movie is not, to the best of my knowledge, based on a YAA novel,

even though it seems like it seems like it. Hmm. So it's like youth and strife. Yeah, but also like what are the things like those YA books that get turned into movies?

Someone's dying. Uh-huh. So is she the one that's dying? Yes. The problem with her in guessing these is she could be in zero of those movies or she could be in 14 of them. Okay, weirdly, it has

the same weird, like, interesting pronoun, uh, construct that I was, no, but in this case, uh, you, no. I? Yes. I died. I die. I mean, kind of, yes. When I die. It's more of a liminal thing. If I die. You are two thirds of the way there, my friend. If I die. If I, I, it's a liminal there's a question did I die no you've got the first two words stay with those first two words if I maybe died

if I should if I when you die people be like did she die that could have been the time When one dies, they don't, they don't, God, I don't want to give it away. If I go to heaven?

Okay, the first, the third word of that phrase is what? Go? The opposite of that. No, the opposite of that. If I leave? No, the opposite. opposite of go. Stay. Oh, if I stay.

Yeah. Do you remember that movie at all? As a title, yes. Yes, okay. I've maybe seen this movie. I've not seen this movie. I love that we had to essentially play Hangman to get that title for you. That was fun. That was a good time. It almost feels like an other two joke about what a Chloe Morrette's movie would be. Yes. Well, a lot of, the thing about Chloe Morrette's movies is that a lot of them do feel like

that. So, yeah. I feel like I'm dunking on CGM. I've stood up for Chloe Grace Moritz. I like her in certain roles, and I don't like her in certain roles. She really, I can run hot and cold. The premise of if I stay, by the way, is that Chloe Grace Maretz is in a car accident and she's in a coma and she has an out-of-body experience where she has to make the decision of whether she lives or not. So, that seems insanely y a yeah that's what i mean it's kind of crazy that it's not based on a y a novel if it was based on a y a novel she would also have a disorder that like she can't experience the touch of grass or else she'll die you know what i mean it's like she can't uh uh you know oxygen particles harm her so she has to be like kept in a you know zip lock bag or something

like that. Like that's, that's the genre I'm thinking of. All right. Right. I think that's the longest IMTP game we probably had in quite some time. Because I can't believe we're hitting the two hour mark on this movie. We really didn't seem like we were going to when we

got to the beginning of an idea. Right, right, right. And then we had 45 minutes of IMS. And that's our episode. If you want more, This Had Oscar Buzz. You can check out the Tumblr at thishead oscarbust.tumbler.com. You should also follow us on Twitter. It had underscore Oscar underscore buzz and on Instagram at this had Oscar buzz. Joe

we are knocking on the door of episode 250. Oh my God, we're so close. We're so close to it. It's going to be a big episode. We're doing a movie that we love talking about and we will hopefully have some exciting news to talk about in that episode. But for now,

Joe, where can our listeners find more of you? Not Instagram. I keep screwing up by saying that. Not Instagram. Don't find my on Instagram. There's nothing for you there. Twitter and letterboxed at Joe Reed, read spelled R-E-I-D.

You can also find me on Twitter and letterboxed at Chris V-File. That's F-E-I-L. Also, I guess on Blusky, I refuse to call it Blue Sky, if it is indeed called Blue Sky. It is called Blue Sky. I did look it up. It is called Blue Sky. It is?

Was it a rumor that it was a movie? It was a joke. It was a joke that it was Blue Sky. Yeah, it's Blue Sky. I don't care. Blue Sky makes it sound like I'm in doing bad animation. It does. The way that it's spelled as one word definitely connotes Bluski, like Bruske, but no, it is apparently not.

And it's Blusky, anyway. We would like to thank Kyle Cummings for his fantastic artwork and Dave Gonzalez and Kevin Muvius for their technical guidance. Please remember to rate, like, and review us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Google Play Stitch, or wherever else you get your podcast. A five-star review in particular really helps us out with Apple Podcasts visibility. So if we maybe die away, leave stuff and die, if I go... Rimes with... At least you can go and leave a nice review. That's all for this week.

We hope you'll be back next week for more buzz. Bye. The children of the revolution now you won't move. The children of the revolution now, now.