This Had Oscar Buzz - 250 – Her Smell

Episode Date: August 7, 2023

We’ve come up on another anniversary episode of This Had Oscar Buzz, and we’ve got another favorite that long-time listeners have heard us praise before: 2019’s Her Smell. Debuting on at TIFF 2018, the Alex Ross Perry film is a daring and ambitious take on the riot grrrls of the early 1990s. Starring Elisabeth Moss … Continue reading "250 – Her Smell"

Oh, oh, wrong house. No, the right house. I didn't get that! We want to talk to Melon Hack, Millen Hack and French. I'm from Canada water. Dick Pooh. Something she is not over yet. I'm not finished.

Baby, I am the heart and soul of this band. I shouldn't come around here and see her like. I'm around here and see her like this. Get the fuck off of me. Come here. Come here. Hello and welcome to the This Had Oscar Buzz podcast, the only podcast that is taking our easel up to the roof to paint. Every week on This Had Oscar Buzz, we'll be talking about a different movie that once upon a time had Lofty Academy Award aspirations, but for some reason or another, it all went wrong.

The Oscar hopes died, and we are here to perform the autopsy. I'm your host, Joe Reed. I'm here, as always, with my acre girl, Chris File. Hello, Chris. What's your Acre Girl name? Your name is like Chrissy Chaos. If we're keeping Chris, it's like chaotic Chris. Yes.

Chris. Cuddy Chris. Christopher Crud. It's using something like nasty. Listeners, comment below. Yeah, comment below. What are our Acre Girls names? What are our Riot Girl names?

Welcome listeners to the 250th episode of This Had Oscar Buzz. It may sound a little different in your. ears, as you have heard. How exciting. How exciting. Brand new theme music. Chris, we've been very excited to premiere our new theme music. We know that everybody through 250 episodes has come to love and associate us with the hot chocolate opening that we have had this far. It is very much not original music, though, and we have for quite a while been sort of saying between the two of us,

Like, we need to, like, get into something more custom fit for us. If only so. We're like, eventually Spotify's going to get mad at us, and it turns out Spotify might be getting mad at us. We've had enough people on our Twitter, in our Twitter mentions, being like, just heard that this had Oscar Buzz theme song on such and such show, or at Target. Congratulations! And it's like, you are so sweet.

We love you, but like that is we cannot take credit for everyone's a winner, a hit song from the 70s. That is also in multiple films, not just 80 for Brady, but Francis Ha. Uh-huh. That's why we put it in there because Francis Howe, because we're such big fans of Francis Ha. I do love that hot chocolate as this had Oscar Buzz canon, though. Well, and listen, everyone's a winner is a statement that defines this podcast, I think, pretty well. So that has been a theme song that has served us well. And we want to expressly throw our endless gratitude to the great Taylor Cole for whipping us up. something really fun and snazzy and rad for our new theme song.

We love it. So thank you, Taylor. You might be hearing more from Taylor soon. Yes. Thank you to Cheryl Boone Isaacs for joining me. This Had Oscar Buzz family as well with the Dick Poop sound drop. So that was Taylor's idea. That was not our idea.

That was Taylor's idea. And it was gorgeous. So, you know, hot chocolate is this had Oscar Buzz canon. And now Taylor Cole is this had Oscar Buzz canon. So we have nothing but gratitude. So if you hear this. theme song in 80 for Brady part two, 81 for Brady, then you can at us and at Taylor and just be like, well, we just heard the Vista Oscar Buzz theme song. Listen, there will be an 80 for Brady sequel, except it will be the two of us and two other homosexuals.

It'll be gaity for Brady. We're going to see Katie Rich in North Carolina. Yes, yes. Fantastic. Gaty for Katie. Yes. It's all the gay people that love Katie Rich. It'll be more than four of us, but...

Yeah, it'll be a lot of us. It'll be a whole... It'll be like the Field of Dreams lineup of cars, just like going all the way down the highway, all the way through the prairie lands. We love the new theme music. We hope you all love it too. Yes.

It will hopefully give you something all to pop along to before you listen to multiple hours of our mess. Speaking of mess. Today is my birthday. Christopher File. I don't know if I said that enough. It is my birthday.

Not the day of airing, but the day of recording. The day we are recording, it's funny, we recorded on my birthday last year because we recorded our Mermaid's episode on my birthday. And now we are recording our 250th episode, quite accidentally. This was not the original plan as of like a week and a half ago. So we kind of moved things around and suddenly 250 landed on Chris's birthday, which is quite the fortuitous occasion. He's finally able to drink legally. So we're very, very happy for Chris.

Speaking of drink legally, I'm bringing madness, chaos, and confusion throughout this whole episode because my birthday, we've been pushing stuff back. I am coming fresh from brunch with my sister and my grandmother. And the brunch spot we went to, they were like, oh, happy birthday, you get a free shot. Yeah. And, you know, that's speaking my grandmother's language. She was like, oh, well, then we have to order some as well. Oh, my God, I love it.

Wait, shots of what's your poison? It wasn't like just tequila. It was like they had their own special brunch shots. Oh, their little house blend. I got the one that was not like French toast whatever. Right. I got one that was like vodka and light. It basically tasted like a margarita, but with vodka, so not as like margarita-ish.

It was fine. I was just watching, I re-watched Trixie Motel for an article that I was writing recently. And the episode where they're trying to figure out what the signature drink of the Trixie Motel will be. And the one is like a pigsy motel will be. squirrel and the one is whatever and the one is essentially just like a vodka soda with a splash of cranberry which is like not proprietary cocktail like that is just a vodka soda with a splash of cranberry but she calls it a skinny legend and then she's like which it'll be it'll be this one or this skinny legend I'm like of course you're

going to choose the skinny legend like marketing rules the day but I always think of that when I think of like signature branded cocktails it's like there's only a few flavor combinations in cocktail making I know there are people who get paid to like fucking faky fake Tom Sandoval their way through like I'm a mixologist

I'm okay sure diva if you're going to bring up anything about that show I'm glad you bring up that moment because it is a very aspirational program and I think there is nothing more aspirational in this life than getting wasted with Jada

Essence Hall well yes that is very true there's a lot of aspirational stuff in that I would I too would like to swing a sledgehammer with Nicole Beyer at things like that just sounds like fun that just sounds like a fun afternoon um very fun show Trixie motel I would love to stay there if I made uh twice as much money as I currently make right now at the very least like it's a pricey it's a pricey stay um god love Palm Springs anyway of course we're getting we're already getting diverted when we have us even more to get in this episode than you think we do listeners, because we're here talking about a movie that if you've listened to us for long enough, you know this is a movie we both very, very much love.

We saw it together, so it's like Joe and Chris go to a movie together. Canon. Yeah. The like small list of movies that we've seen. 300 is going to have to be Benisback. I feel like if we're going to keep along this line of tradition, then 300 is going to have to be

our Benisback episode. Yeah, we might have to. There's that. We also have to, you know, recap the past year. We're going to be giving out some awards. Awards. As we usually do. Last year, we made it even more chaotic. And we said from now on we will have, what, six supporting actress categories. Yeah, we've boxed ourselves into that nightmare now every 50 episodes that I got to come up with. All right. Okay. And then we got some more business to discuss. some business. All right, we should do actually that business right up here close to the top because we know that sometimes we have a long episode and we don't want to make people go two and a half hours deep before we make our big announcement. And it's a pretty big announcement, I would say. It's announcement that is... This is the season for giving. A long time coming. This is the season forgiving from us to you and from you to us. We're

going to be exchanging gifts is what we're going to do, almost as if it is a business. transaction. We're launching a Patreon, everybody. We're finally doing it. We're finally doing it. At long last, we've decided to finally launch a Patreon for our listeners. This is

both because we would like to start supporting our podcasting endeavors more than we currently do at the figure of zero dollars that we are currently making for this podcast. We would like to you know, we put a decent amount of effort into putting this podcast out, and we love doing it,

and we love hearing from the listeners, and I feel like now is the time to join all of our wonderful podcasting friends in their Patreon endeavors, and we know there are a lot of patrons out there to support. We know there is a, it's a competitive podcasting market, but should you decide that You want even more from us in a given month. We highly encourage you to go check out our Patreon and sign up because we are going to be offering some additional content. Should we tell them what the name is? I love the name of it. Go for it.

It is your name. We were a little bit like, we spent a good evening trying, like batting back and forth suggestions. We're like, no. How about this? No. And this one sort of starts. A lot of them were lame. A lot of them were lame.

Listen, there's no bad ideas in a brainstorm. We're calling our Patreon. This had Oscar Buzz, turbulent brilliance after the great Shirley MacLean's speech when she won her Academy Award. I wanted to work with the turbulent brilliance of Deborah Winger. She literally inhabited the character

so thoroughly that I thought for four months I had two daughters. It could have been This Had Oscar Buzz. I deserved this, but that felt a little a little icky when we're asking you guys for a monthly subscription. So anyway, this had Oscar Buzz, Turbulent, Brilliance has already launched. Go check it out.

It's already there. There's already some content. We got it waiting for you. There's coffee on the kettle already for you. Yeah. Cookies have been baking in the oven and are now cooling on the counter. So Chris caveat here. That doesn't mean don't continue listening to this episode.

Oh, my God. Let those cookies cool. There's going to be there for you. There's some goodness here in this episode. You're not going to want to miss that. We got some stuff coming this episode. We don't want you to abandon this episode. But we're very excited to do.

We've had a lot of listeners request this for quite some time. And we weren't trying to leave you all hanging. It's mostly been scheduling for both of us. And I think we've just, you know, gotten serious. about, you know, we're going to make the schedule work. We want to be able to provide this for our listeners who want to provide it. Yeah, we didn't want to launch it half-assed, and we wanted to make it count when we did. Yes.

So a little bit of detail to go into it with the Patreon. We've got one tier, essentially, of membership, a $5 membership. Should we call the membership tier something, Chris? By the time you listen to this, this will have launched, so we'll have made this decision. But by the time this is launched, maybe we'll have called the $5 tier like that. Let's leave a little mystery. They can go and find out. Go see what we've decided from now until when we've launched.

For that $5 monthly subscription, you will get two extra bonus episodes of this had Oscar Buzz per month. So that's in addition to the four to five that we already launched per month, depending on how many Mondays are in a given month. You will get two bonus episodes per month. One of those episodes will be a thing that we've been teasing kind of forever as a Patreon option, which is what we've called. When we've said, we're going to do, we have

something in mind for this. Yeah, yeah. We've been saying for like literal years. These are the movies that we've been calling exceptions. So these are movies that fit the usual. This had Oscar Buzz rubric of, you know, great Oscar expectations and then disappointing results, even though the movies may have gotten one or two Oscar nominations that disqualify

it from being a main feed episode. So we're talking about movies like Charlie Wilson's War. or across the universe, or nine, or the lovely bones, God help us all. Sign up and we'll put a tomb in the middle of your house. You have a tomb in the middle of your house. That is the promise we make to you with our patron. That is the turbulent brilliance promise from us to you.

For our second bonus episode of every month, it'll be more of a departure in format. We'll be doing things like Oscar race check-ins, or we'll be covering a, particular EW Fall Movie Preview, sort of like we did with the May miniseries last year. Maybe we'll watch an old award show and banter on about that. Talk about old Hollywood Reporter roundtables, maybe Patreon-only mailbags we've been talking about, some fun thought experiments. Chris, remind me, there was a fun thought experiment that was brought to my attention yesterday that I want to discuss because that'll be a fun one.

but to sign up for our Patreon and see what that turns into. Exactly. We're going to explore the space. We're going to see what works. We think you will have fun taking that ride with us. We're, of course, open to feedback for what you guys want. We're open to the idea. Once we're on the ground and moving of maybe adding some things to this, like, we know that discords are immensely popular with patrons right now.

We are two old dorky gay guys who don't know how to use Discord yet, so trust and believe, we're going to try to learn that before we, incorporated and do it half-assed. If we're going to do that, we want to be great for you. We promise not to wait five more years before we do something much more of a social community. But overall being, you know, the point being, we're open to your feedback. If you have interests or ideas for that, like absolutely let us know and we'll take it into consideration. Because this is, of course, like our love letter to all of you who listen to the show and have been wanting even more of the show. Yes. This will also be your opportunity to send a love letter to us in the form of $5 per month.

So we're also talking about things like Patreon-only polls. You'll be able to vote and determine certain upcoming episodes. So a little bit more control. Don't we all want a little bit more control in our life? This is a story about control, our control, your control. To sign up for this head Oscar buzz. Control of what I am, what I do, what I say. Exactly.

To sign up for this had Oscar buzz, turbulent brilliance. You can go right now to our page. Well, no, as Chris said, listen to our original episode. Then go. Go and subscribe, just, you know, as you're listening to. Keep the headphones in. Keep your, yes. Multitask.

We're a nation of multitaskers. We can all get this done at once. Go to our Patreon page at patreon.com slash this had Oscar buzz. There will already be a page there. There should be episodes waiting for you to sign up. Once again, we're speaking to you from the past, but we are trying to predict the future. And you can sign up, you can listen, you can enjoy two new episodes a month,

a whole new listening experience for this at Oscar Buzz fans. Garys, we love you. The Gary's tier. Of course, it's probably going to be the Gary's tier. I mean, like, yes, there is only one tier, and it is the Gary. Yeah. That's our specialty cocktail. That is our specialty cocktail, the Gary.

Oh, that seems a little. That sounds gross. It does sound gross. We don't name a cocktail after a person, particularly a male. I know a margarita is a lady's name, but, you know. A margarita. Wow. Okay.

See, if you want a window into how long it took us to name the podcast, to name the Patreon, this is why. It's because we would come up with things like Margarita, and then we would immediately look at each other and go, ooh. So, yeah. Speak for yourself. I am very proud of that pun. Well, but you've been watching in just like that, though.

So your pun meter is, it needs, some calibration. Listen, I'm sitting on 2,000 words on the insanity that is LTW's life, if anybody wants them. Honestly, pitch it around. LTW as a documentarian is equal to the insanity

of Che as a comedian. I rest my case. Pitch that around. Someone will run that, 100%. Just like running Final Cut Pro in her closet. I mean, like, you're talking to somebody who who makes their art in their closet. I was going to say, you're speaking from a closet right now. I am LTW.

Yeah. By the way, as we are doing, as we are recording this, I have changed my setup ever so slightly, which is to say I've turned 90 degrees to my right. And so now Chris actually can see something behind me besides the glaring light of the sun blazing in through my window. So that's nice. Podcast being a visual medium. Yeah.

I've told you, Joe, that I am bringing, let's loop it back to the wonderful, movie that we are here to talk about is her smell. Yes. I am here to bring chaos, madness, and confusion to this episode, much in the way that Becky something brings chaos, madness, and confusion to everyone involved in the film. And I lucked into a gift that my sister got me, not for my birthday, but just because. And I was like, the timing is perfect. I am coming to you, listeners who can see this because podcasts are visual.

I am coming to you in an original... Fuck off! Phantom of the Opera T-shirt. Get out of here. You were hiding this off screen for me. This is maybe not going to be super fruitful. Oh, my God. I'm bringing the, I'm sprawning this on you.

You need to understand, listeners. Chris pulled off a full reveal where he just tilted his computer screen down and revealed the absolute splendor. To the mask. Of the Phantom of the Opera Mask. Of course, the Phantom of the Opera T-shirt is a mainstay in her smell. One of many, many fantastic visual touches. I'm so excited to talk about this movie.

I saw this movie together. I forget if it was you or me who leaned over to the other and was like, she had a fucking Phantom of the Opera T-shirt. So good. This is going to be a really interesting movie to talk about. Not only did we see this together, this was also a, this was one of those movies where we saw it at Tiff. It wouldn't open until the following April.

And so it was a lot, but a lot of critics and sort of people in our circles had seen it. And I think we all kind of realized, once you walk out of this movie, the score is pretty apparent, which is, this is a really great movie. I love it. It is going to absolutely have no future as an awards contender or like, even like, we thought there was a possibility that it could be sort of like a cult hit. But, like, that was kind of the ceiling on it. And the greatness is there, though, that it's just like immediately we were like, well, it should be. And like, if we as critics are doing our job to champion it, you know.

But I would even say, though, that, like, I think this is a movie that very intentionally spends its first hour 45, I would even say, really aggressively trying to dare you to, you know, give up on it, essentially, much as Becky something sort of does in her own life. This is a movie that wants to kind of disgust you with her behavior, the way she treats everybody, the way she, you know, is just, even the way she talks, this sort of like her need to throw in some sort of like verbal flourish constantly and like speak around the issue and like double speak and you don't quite know whether she's happy about. something or angry about something, and it's usually both, and you don't know whether she's insulting you or being nice to you. She's always insulting you. And so it's not until she really hits that rock bottom, and you get to the second last of the five sort of major acts of this, that the movie finally relents for half a second, because it's such a stress,

and off-putting intentionally so movie up until then, that even critics who were like this movie rules, you should all go see it. Also, like, even people who saw it off of that, I could see a good percentage of those people being turned off by it. There's also the thing, and this is what I want to talk about a little bit before we get into the plot description, is this is an Alex Ross Perry movie that is very much, this is the one, one of these things isn't like the other. It is the least like his other movies of his movies. You know what I mean? Like, it's the, it's the outlier in terms of style, in terms of energy. And all of his movies, to some degree or another, are working with the premise of, I'm going to try and make you watch this movie about unlikable people in some degree or another. And yet, this one, to me, is the one. that really stood out from the crowd as being really great. And I had liked or disliked Alex Ross Perry's previous movies to different degrees.

But I think by the time her smell comes around, he had crafted such a cinematic persona that you could be like, you've got to see this movie her smell. And somebody will be like, what's that movie's deal? And you're like, well, it's the new Alex Ross Perry movie. And they're like, well, with that title, and maybe I'm not into Alex Ross Perry movies. so, like, I'm out. And you had to really sort of convince people who maybe weren't into the Alex Ross-Perry vibe or that horrendous title that I've read so many articles. I love the title.

I've read so many articles about this movie in the last few days, and not a single one of them attempts to explain why they called this movie Her Smell. Like, there really is no need for it. I mean, I think it's such a gratuitous title. I mean, I think it tells you kind of what you're in for because, like. Sure. The smell is not like scent or, you know, it makes you think of something like grody or raunchy. Yeah.

Like the phrase her smell is meant to be said sort of with crinkled nose. Like, oh. Yeah. And it seems like a massaginistic term. And it is giving you exactly what you, it's like in two syllables. It's the, your relationship to what those words invoke. It is giving you everything that the movie is intending to give you in a way. Yeah.

It also, though, it evokes that kind of riot girl thing where it's like that, you know, punk aesthetic where it's like, I'm going to put a whole lot of attitude right up in your face and be like, eh, like, you know, I'm not trying to make you like me. Yeah, you can't really title a movie, well, fuck you. Right, right. So you title it her smell. But it's, yeah, it's the, you know, it's the crassy cast. of it. It's the Roxy Rotten. First of all, all of the Acre Girls are named like the misfits from

Gem and the Holograms. It's absolutely incredible. It literally is like pizzazz and Roxy and Stormer. It's so funny. Mary L. Hell, even, for Agnes Stain's character. And also Zelda Ezekiel is just a very funny name. That's Zelda. Amber heard of Zelda in this movie. I remember when, like, people were first catching up to this movie, and people were like, her smell is great, and Amber Hurd plays Katie Perry. Oh, okay. On the other side of the plot description, I want to get into antecedents for these, because, like, they're not strictly one-to-ones,

but a lot of these characters definitely make you think of other certain people. I mean, Becky, something a lot of people have invoked, like, Courtney Love. Alex Ross Perry says that it's more Axel Rose than Courtney Love. That makes a lot of sense, too. Well, and Axel Rose, like, is, I am not a therapist, but Axel Rose is an unwell person, much in the way that Becky something is. Well, and Courtney Love has, through her lifetime, been unwell at many portions of her life, too. Sure, sure, sure. The other thing about Courtney is, I think the idea of having the baby backstage felt very courtnified, right?

Like, that's, that's definitely a thing there. I mean, I think this is a better movie for not being, like, a literal one-to-one where you're just changing the names of something, but it's like you're capturing a whole era of music that, like, even Courtney Love is maybe a little too mainstream to... Courtney Love was never really Riot Girl. She was, like, she was grunt. She was, you know, this is more in the final song over the closing credits is a runaway's song. So, like, I think that's sort of giving you a window into. runaways and Bikini Kill and Slater Kinney even and that kind of stuff, which is a little more. I mean, there's so much in the backstage, the backstage antipathy that Becky has for Zelda, which you get the sense that like Zelda was one of them. And then she sort of sold out and got poppier. And there's a little bit of Katie Perry. There's a little bit of like Lady Gaga even a little bit. And sort of these, you know, she definitely went poppier. But in a sort of like

art pop, to coin a phrase, you know, kind of a way. There's also that little bit of, you know, remember when Liz Fair made the pop record and everybody got so pissed. And made the greatest pop song maybe of all time. It's such a good song. Top five greatest pop songs ever. Yeah. Period. It's a great song. But everybody, but so many people got pissed at Liz Fair because Liz Fair was such an avatar of like indie alt rock. And I think that sense of betrayal is evident in Becky's attitude towards Zelda in the beginning of this movie. But we'll talk about all of that on the other side of the plot description because there's a lot to get into. One more thing I wanted to say, though, and we'll talk more about Alex Ross Perry.

We'll do it on the other side of the plot description. There's a lot to get into. Well, let me set the stage for myself a little bit. Yeah, I want to do that too. I, you talked a little bit about, and I'm sure we'll talk more, about the resistance. This isn't even the right word, but like, the, The people who watch five minutes of this movie and want to run in the opposite direction, I feel a certain level of, I don't know if it's like cognitive dissonance.

Sure. But it's like, I'm put in front of this movie and when people are like off putting, aggressively unpleasant, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I'm like, have you not seen a movie? Like some of the same people that are like loving Ariaster movies and like are not on board with this movie. kind of don't understand. Ari Aster is also working in the realm of, you know, unpleasantness, too. As is like Charlie Kaufman, as is like...

Loud unpleasantness, too. Yeah. In your face, aggressive, strangeness and unpleasantness. But like, I can... And I don't think this movie really registers on that level for me. Maybe I'm just, I'm just so all in the tank. I'm... It makes me question almost like, am I too passive of a viewer?

Like, am I just willing to ride the ride, whatever the ride is? because I'm not put off by this movie in the way people are. I'm not put off by this movie, but I think on an intellectual level, you can look at this movie and you can see, you can, like, admit the fact that, like, this is a movie that is written with an aggressively nasty, mean, hurtful, loud, like, extreme and kind of annoying. Like, Becky's annoying.

Like, there's a lot of things about Becky that are just fucking annoyed. And one thing that I read in one of the interviews was Elizabeth Moss made the point, which I think is a very good point, which is that this is not a movie that comes from Becky's POV. This is from the POV of everybody sort of taking Becky in. This is everybody else's POV, which is we are being assaulted by Becky every time she's in the room and a lot of the times when she's not in the room. and um there is a lot of time spent where it is people talking about her rather than even if she's on the periphery you know she's on the other side of soundproof glass for certain scenes you know what i mean pounding on the what is this when i rewatched this last night and i i got to the bang bang bang what is this i was like oh this jiff used to be

everywhere and we need to bring it yes i have the exact same thought i had the exact same thought But yes, I get what you're saying about how, like, you're the one who's just like, you're in the middle of the fire, you're the dog in the middle of the fire, and you're like, this is fine. And I'm like, doesn't this feel great? This is fine by me. I get it. Like, I don't think, when I say that this movie and this character especially are aggressively off-putting, I don't mean that, like, I am riding the pause, the stop button the entire time I'm watching it. But, like, I can recognize the fact that, like, this is a movie much like young adult, which we talked about a little bit ago, whereas, like Diablo Cody wrote that character knowing she was writing a character who was really pushing the boundaries of likability in a lead character, and intentionally so. And I think if you look at Alex Ross Perry's entire filmography, that's the kind of protagonist he writes about.

And that's why I think for as much as this movie aesthetically as a departure from Alex Ross Perry movies, in a lot of other ways, it fits in with a Queen of Earth or even a Listen Up Philip, which like my problem with Listen Up Philip, and that was a movie that I couldn't ultimately get down with was, oh my God, I can't watch this movie about this character. I fucking hate him so much. And whatever psychology it says about me that like Becky something is fine by me and Listen Up Philip. Schwartzman and Listen Up Philip is not. Whatever. But it's, you know, it's worth digging into. I just think that there is such an immediate depth and intrigue to not just Becky something, but the world as it is created by Alex Ross Perry in this movie, because

obviously we're going to be talking so much about that character and that performance. but like there is so much that is just so like idiosyncratically rendered where it's just like it feels like this is a two and a half hour movie they could have kept fucking going like it there's so much depth to the environment to the character portraiture not just a Becky something but everyone else even people you maybe only see once yeah that anything that's off putting to me like all of that other stuff is what's pulling me in and like I care less. about, oh, this person's so awful, and more like, this person is fascinating. I would have watched an entire Dirtbag Danny movie, like, would be 100%. First of all. You just sweet baby D. Dan Stevens. Dan Stevens is so fucking hot in this movie. I can't even begin to describe it.

He's so fucking hot this movie. Just worth saying. Worth mentioning. We'll get into the cast later, too, because, like, the cast is rich with possibility. Okay. So before we get any further into this, episode. I'm going to make Chris describe this plot in 60 seconds. We are talking about, for our 250th extravaganza, we are talking about her smell, directed and written by Alex Ross Perry, starring

Elizabeth Moss, Agnestine, Gail Rankin. Oh my God, Gail Rankin is so fucking good in this movie. I love her so much. Dan Stevens, Cara Delavine, who gets second billing, and we'll talk about that too on the other end of it. The billing in this movie is wonderful and also insane. Cara Delavine, Ashley Benson, Dylan Galula, Eka Darville, with Virginia Madsen, with Eric Stoltz, and Amber Hurd, a truly iconic with-with-and in this movie. This premiered at the Toronto International Film Festival on September 19th, 2018. We saw it a few days later.

It opened eventually, after playing a bunch of other festivals, it opened in limited release on April 12th, 2019, and limited release, it stayed, all to the tune of the whatever, $200-something thousand dollars. It made $255,000 at the domestic box office, which this was definitely Alex Ross Perry's most expensive movie to date. There was a whole article. It's actually, go out and find the article if you're listening to this, the Indie Wire article. It'll be linked in the Tumblr. David Ehrlich wrote about her smell and specifically about Alex Ross Perry.

and the sort of economic level on which he operates in Hollywood and how essentially he made her smell for the exact most amount of money that he could get away with not having to answer to anybody to make this movie. And the sort of the balancing act that that requires for a movie with a pretty formidable cast and certainly like more of a production value element that he had ever put into his movies before. And the fact that this movie, even for an indie movie, super flopped, meant that, like, to some certain degree that, like, Alex Ross Perry is probably never going to be able to get to make a movie to that degree, again, at least until he can find, you know, maybe a way around to a big success with a small, small budget. it. But the economics of Hollywood are really squeezing out, you know, those even lower middle ranges. But anyway, it's a really fantastic article from 2019, David Ehrlich on IndyWire. Go read

it. And in the meantime, Chris, move on my stopwatch. Is Becky here yet? Is Chris here yet? Is he ready to do the plot description now? Who is Becky something? Oh, indeed. Okay. Um, Stop, watch, ready to go. Chris, tell me when, and I will start the clock. Let's see how this goes. All right, and begin. All right, her smell, a.k.a. punk girl, King Lear, a story in five acts. In the first, we see the band, Something she led by Becky Something, kind of at the beginning of their decline,

and their decline may or may not probably is exacerbated by Becky Something's addiction and being a general monster. In the second act, we see that they are trying to record another album, and it is not going well because Becky is so much of a monster. They shepherd in the acre girls, the new generation of the punk girl, who worship something she, but are still also kind of a different musical vibe, so you definitely feel like the time for something. She is over.

And then we see the third act where at this, like, venue in the, like, depths of hell, Becky is hours and hours late and cannot be corralled and she is having a major fucking drug breakdown in front of everyone including her mother who she pushes away and then in Act 4 we see Becky something sitting in fucking silence in the woods and she is in recovery and they are thinking of trying to invite her back to perform once again for the first time

everyone in the world is suing her though so she maybe also needs it financially in the fifth act we see this reunion concert for their former record executive that's like celebrating the music and such and the question while everyone is backstage is Becky using again will this force her to use again and it's this giant question and it's the most tense moments of the movie probably of just like this question mark of can she ever transcend her addictions and does the movie answer that question we don't really know but they have a good show to guess how many seconds over a minute you went. 317. It was 47 seconds, almost 48 seconds over, but you know what? It's our 250th episode, so we get

a little extra leeway. You can't ask for a Shakespearean five-act structure within 60 seconds. You mentioned Shakespearean. That was definitely one of the influences that Alex Ross Perry talked about making this movie. It was

Guns and Roses, Axel Rose specifically. It was He had seen a production of the Merchant of Venice with Jonathan Price in it, and then he had watched Kenneth Branagh's Marathon Hamlet. And the five-act structure, the sort of, even the, like, the very elaborate dialogue that Becky something is always sort of saying. These reams and reams of fucking jibberish, too. It's just like, it's self-aggrandizing, absolute. like horseshit that she is like It is gobbledy cook

But like you just kind of sit there in amazement And it's like a lot of people compared this performance And the movie to Like Jenna Rowland's work in Cassavetti's movies And a lot of people compared this movie to Cassavetti's movies And Elizabeth Moss was like this was absolutely not like that This everything was scripted down to the word and we followed the script And that is even more mind-blowing because it's like

Well Jenna Rollins never you know memorized 15 pages of gobbleding up that you have to deliver in this monologue. That's so much goddamn dialogue to memorize for Elizabeth Moss. Like, in addition to the fact that she's just absolutely magnetic. And, like, the camera gets right up in her face, too. And there are some, the cinematographer in this movie deserves to be shouted out, Sean Price Williams, there are some close-ups of Elizabeth Moss where she looks absolutely

fucking iconic. And I know iconic is a thing that every gay person says without absolutely without remorse these days. It's just like we're throwing around that term. But like in the strictest sense of the word, iconic, it is an image to build an icon out of. You know what I mean? Like there are some of these...

In the way that Jenna Rollins was in those movies, in the way that it's just like, the image you're seeing is framed in this way that is so attuned to every bit of minutia in this performance. But the performance that's happening on screen is a total breakdown of the veneer of performance to make you believe that you are seeing this real person go through what they're doing,

and you're not seeing Elizabeth Moss perform this. That's huge hyperbole, especially for a movie that's not even five years old, but watch the movie and disagree. There was the other quote, and I wish I had written down the entire thing to quote it exactly, but there was Alex Ross Perry in one of the interviews that he gave, mentioned how this wasn't a movie about a band or about a musical scene or about

even addiction, that it was a movie about identity. And he sort of, he cites the fact that, like, all of these main characters are all sort of, like, working under an alias that they've adopted for themselves and these stage names and whatnot. and even like the shaman who she's calling Yaima, right? And it's just like, that's not really his name. His name's like Phil or whatever, and he's a con man. And he's like, that's the movie, is this identity, these sort of like, and you can see it with Becky, where she is, she is this like, I mean, at some point she was incredibly talented.

You don't get to that level without being talented. But she also has a talent for being Becky something. Well, for being Becky something and for being, for playing the role of a turbulent pop star, a turbulent punk star. Because she is performing this persona. Right. All the time. All the time. And it gets to the point of the question of this willingness, this, you know, compulsion to play.

play this character that is not the person is, you know, you see it on some of the fringes when it talks about her, lack of better word trauma, but like things, like, is something as simple as like the role of her father in her life. Yeah. You know, a way of her performing the persona might at one time been a protective layer for herself, but then it becomes something that is ultimately destructive to the point that she doesn't know who she is as a person anymore. Well, the other thing is, you look at the people who are closest to her in this movie, and it's, you know, it's Mari and it's Ali, who are her two bandmates.

Dan Stevens as her ex, I think they're still, like, finalizing their divorce, right? There's still, like, there's always papers that needed to be signed, whether she's, you know, she's getting sued, she's getting divorced, whatever. And the people who are closest to her, who, like, Mari goes, you know, her stage name is Mariel Hell, and, like, Ali is Ali Vander Wolf, right? It's so funny that, like, the wolf is part of Gail Rankin's character in this and glow. It's kind of hilarious. She's just the wolf girl. But all of these people, as we see them in the movie, even in the beginning parts of the movie, we're like, Becky is on 12 out of 10. You know what I mean? 21 out of 10. In order to have to

deal with her. That's rounding down. She's been a 12,000 out of 10. Yeah. In order to deal with her, you imagine that these girls had these big personalities to be in this, you know, riot girl band, right? And Dan was, you know, dirtbag Danny, right? And even in the shot, because this movie is, the acts are separated by these, like, video camera moments from when they were younger and sort of more, more innocent and more and happier.

Where you see Virginia Manson as the mother feels much more like a stage mother and much more like, oh God, like I'm sure she was like, she really wants to be part of the scene oh you girls she's very like oh you girls keep me young like that kind of thing and then when you see them in these first few acts of the movie they have in order to deal with becky have kind of drained that extremeness out of their own personalities they are like the most straight-laced people like alley at this point she's just like what am i why did i even want to do this i'm just like i have no energy to be this sort of like rocker girl marie is like she's

doing coke through the first two-thirds of the movie, but she only seems to be doing that to have the energy to put up with Becky. Danny has absolutely, like, retired the dirtbag Danny persona. Part of that is he's an adult and he's a dad and he's mature now, but part of it is just like, they have all had to downsize their personalities in order to balance out what Becky's doing. And so Becky is like, is this volcano in the midst of all of them. And they have all essentially had to, you get to Normcore themselves to deal with her because otherwise you wouldn't have room for a second big personality in the room. And you sort of see when the acre girls are introduced. And it's not like these girls have these huge personalities, but they're bubbly and they're

fun and they have their own little sound. You can certainly see why Becky had no room for Zelda in her life anymore. Anybody with any kind of a personality that might be a threat to her You can see the way she deals with them. Her dealing with the Acre Girls is a study. I could watch it like a nature film because the way she's like, she knows she cannot. Who the fuck are these bitches the second she walks into the room with them? But she knows she can't be outwardly the worst to them because she needs them. She needs them for her own survival.

But she also absolutely loathes the fact that she needs them. And she loathes the fact that they have a different sound than she does, that their sound is an ever. away from what she's been doing. And that's a threat to her. And I also think the second that she glazes on to the fact that they idolize her. Yes. But they don't know what a shit show she is. Like they still have the blinders on.

They are fresh to her. Yeah. They are just fonts of appreciation for her. The second she realizes that she turns on a dime with them. It's not just that she kind of like needs them and their, rising star to, you know, have a moment for herself. It's also that, like, they can potentially, even if it's just for a short time. Well, it's vampiric. Yes. They can, they can give her that, you know, adoration that her entire circle has ceased to provide. Right. They are fresh blood. They are

legitimately, I think Mara even says it, like, close to that. Like, they are a source, they are new energy source that she can sort of like, you know, uh, drain essentially for her own. And by the next time you see them, you can see it in them. They're like, they have been through the Becky Something roller coaster and they are fucking over it by this point. And it's like, oh, wow, in record time, they have like, like Dylan Galila's characters, just like, why do we have to put up with this? And I think that's how, you know, everybody has gotten. And it's, it's so, stressful. It's so high stress, but I genuinely think the most stressful act of this movie, and I'm sure you agree with me in this, but maybe not, is the final act where, because you are so,

and I think Allie is the one who sort of represents the audience in that. Ellie in many ways is kind of an audience surrogate in this. I love Cal Rankin's performance in this movie so much. Because we have seen the scene where Mari goes and visits her at home, and she's clean, and she's so remorseful, and she's almost afraid to, Becky seems almost afraid to move suddenly, to make any sudden movement. Yeah, like she has to sit still or everything. She's got this delicate balance of whatever level of healing she's achieved at this point, and she's really afraid that she's going to upset it.

And then the next thing we see, they've all gathered for this reunion concert for Eric Stolt, who is this, like, he's a label head of, I imagine he was in charge of this, like, small, you know, punk indie label or whatever, and, and they've all, all his bands are there to, so it's Zelda and the Acre Girls and something she. And Becky, as you mentioned in your plot description, she needs the money to. Like, she's, she's being sued by everybody. She's, you know, she needs this, but also. She's being sued by the people who are still even somewhat on her side. Like, yes. Der Bagdani. And yet, I think she, and Mari kind of pushes her towards this a little bit, she wants to be able to show herself that she can still be this talented musician, that she doesn't have to have a band into that side of her just to get clean, that she can be that without losing herself into, you know, into this life, again. And she's giving it a shot. And yet, the more we are backstage with her, the camera

loses track of her. This is some really fantastic direction by Alex Ross Perry. We, the camera, that fucking set that they got, that backstage set, which just feels like a labyrinth that, like, you're constantly going in and out of doors. Some rooms have multiple exits into this, this hallway that seems to go on into an abyss is, I mean, like, what, they had to have fucking felt like they got a gift in that set because that set alone makes the tension. A lot of the reviews of her smell mentioned Gaspar Noe as a, as a, uh, antecedent to Perry's films. The spatial disorientation.

I guarantee you, it's people who had just seen climax because like it's, because it's, because it is very similar. What a great movie. Her smell climax double feature. Do it, but also have like a photo of a loved one nearby so you can like ground yourself mentally when you're done. It's just like I live in the real world. Like I have, you know what I mean?

It would be so psychologically damaging and yet like only see it in the spring so you can immediately go outside and touch grass. Yeah. Like literally you'll be on your hands and knees. Yeah, God forbid you see it in the winter and you get the end of climate. and you wander outside, and it's also a snowy, like, wilderness? Like, you'd be fucked. We can't derail into climax talk, because I will be, like, Sophia Boutella forever.

But so anyway, the camera loses track of Becky, and then it's Mari and Ali, and then eventually, like, the other characters are, like, trying to find her. And you're like, okay, where is she? Has she? Is she going to relapse? Is she going to self-harm? Has she left? Has she, does she, you know, not think she can do it? What's going on? And they finally find her, you know, near the door of the stage at the end of this long hallway with her back to them. And it's a really eerie image because it's literally just like she's staring into this abyss that she's going to have to go into.

And you have no idea whether, because the other part is like Mari has like gone into room and like one of the other bands are like getting high. room and is there just too much temptation for Becky here and can she do it and but like there's a lot of factors there and I think this is a movie that if any of this sounds hokey or like touchy-feely to any listeners who haven't seen this movie this movie earns a note of you know some very hardly earned it makes like ideas like that not trite or trivial that it's like she is literally standing on the precipice of this stage, which represents all of it. It represents her, you know, every bit of that minutia about her situation, not just her addiction, but just like where she is in life. And that it can get away with that and it feels so earned and it feels so like.

Well, and ultimately, it's a movie that ends on an individual decision that Becky makes because she makes the decision to not go back on stage for an encore and to essentially go home with her kid. Although it cuts to the end before we actually see her leave. So I do feel like there's a little bit of a note of like, maybe she goes home or like maybe not. But I do like the end where she's making that active decision that she's like, I got on stage. I know I can do it. But now I can also make the choice to like be a mom to my kid and go home. But up before that point, this is a movie about Becky making that individual choice, but it is also a movie about how.

And this sort of ties into the identity thing, too. So much of Becky up until that point had been, I am the star, I am the creative force behind this band. Everybody else is just a disappointment to me in one way or another. My mom failed me and my husband failed me. And my child is going to be my downfall. So says my shaman who I've hired. You know, my bandmates don't have the, you know,

the wherewithal to keep up with me. And finally, by this last act, she admits to herself and to everybody around her that she needs them. She's not going to be able to get through this without them. She's not going to be able to... Be it here for you. Thank you for being here for me. And then they go on stage, and she calls them all up, and she brings Zelda back up on the stage. And it's like, and again, that's the kind of ending that can feel hokey or overly sentimental.

But, like, if you've been through the gauntlet of the first two-thirds of this movie, You know that, like, that is not a, you know, an ending that is sort of tossed off or easily sentimental. Like, you've been through the ringer with this movie. It's not a contrivance, you know. Right. And it's not, it's not about making the audience feel good. It's about the emotional journey that Becky is on, you know. It's a really good movie. It's just a really good movie.

You know, to be honest, good movie. Good movie. Good movie. All right. Um, we mostly talked about that act, but, like, the other ones are really good. Oh, yeah. The fourth act, especially, I think, the first time that you see, I mean, spoiler for any listeners who haven't seen this movie, um,

the fourth act really feels like such a gut punch in just the really unbearable silence of it. You know, you have this very, very loud, intricately designed, uh, sound scape of this movie that feels like hell. And then you just have silence of her sitting there, and then slowly you hear this tea kettle coming to a hiss and a boil. And it's like, that's what this movie, you know, the emotional arc of it. And then, of course, you have, it also has the, it earns that she gets to do the most cheesy, the most sentimental, the most eye roll song in the world. And you're fucking crying. It's such a good scene.

First of all, I love that song. It is absolutely as cheesy as you say, but I fucking love that song. We've been down this road before, but that's over now. You keep me coming back for more. Maybe you're all that I want when you're lying here in my arms. I'm finding it hard to believe We're in heaven It is synthetic cheese

It's not even nacho cheese Oh, it is craft singles But I fucking love craft singles And I love, yes And I'm here for it Wonderful performance And then she also sings The little acoustic snippet

Of the song she's working on Which also is like very earnest and very confessional and very kind of like singer-songwriter. Well, and this, I think the sentiment she's expressed, I mean, the lyrics are literally in that song, I don't want to quit, I just want to be in control of it. Yeah. And it's just like, that feels like something an addict might not be allowed scare quotes

to say in a way that I'd maybe never heard, like, in a song before, you know? that just like well it's also a thing where like it may not ever be achievable like that's the thing about an addict right you know what I mean but that's also the thing about songwriting is you know you're maybe writing about your dreams of it and your dream

is maybe always going to be out of your grasp you're never going to be able to achieve that level of not quitting but being in control of it you know what I mean that may not ever be possible but it's certainly something that you would want like I imagine if I you know if I were that hardcore of an addict and I had to give that all up, there would be a big part of me that would be like, why can't

I just, you know, do this just enough to feel good, but also be in control? Like, why do seemingly other people, you know, maybe get to do this and I can't? Um, Agnistine, especially in that sequence is so, I love all of the moments of Agnistine and, and, uh, Gail Rankin interacting with Dan Stevens, too, because they are, it's, They're very much, like, they are very affectionate with each other in the manner of survivors of an ordeal. You know what I mean? Like, it really is like, oh, like, we all lost our house to a hurricane, and now we are bonded for life. And it's, you know, they are the survivors of Hurricane Becky.

I guess we're moving backwards through the film because I also, the third act, which is the, the one that the trailer for the movie is essentially just like two minutes worth of that third act when Becky finally shows up. But they're at this concert. She's two hours late. The crowd is getting really restless. What I love

is when Becky finally shows up, because it's such a small club that she's like coming in through the front door and walking pat, like she's walking in enough where like the crowd can see her. So they all start cheering. And then as she gets on backstage, you can hear people be like,

start the fucking show like come on like they're getting really really impatient with it all and and she is at her most self-aggrandized by this point she is at this is when she does the whole like promise me mama when i die have the coffin arrive half an hour late on the side written in gold letters of the words sorry for the delay she knows she's late she knows she knows exactly how much she's put all these people out and she knows that the only way to react and retain this, like, stature that she has is to just be obnoxiously proud of it. Oh, I never, I was born without an internal clock, and it's like, you know, I'm, and it makes me this sort of like mythological, you know, creature, whatever, and she's addressing her mom like

she's fucking Medea, you know what I mean? And she's, you know, Ms. Ania, Adam Check. And it's, but, like, your blood pressure is fucking, spiking because the crowd's ready to riot, everybody is ready to absolutely murder Becky, but also to absolutely leave Becky. Like they are all on the precipice. They are all basically saying, just get through tonight and we're done. It's over. They are all willing to never see Becky ever again after this night.

And so what does that mean? And then that all happens before she literally tries to stab Allie in the face. And so that is, like, that's your emotional and energetic climax. Like, the energy never gets higher than that point, right? That is the, and the absolute sort of midpoint of the movie. But it's terrifying. Like, that is the way we'll say, for as much as some of Alex Ross Perry's stuff annoys me.

I didn't like, what was the one Golden Exits? the thing about his movies is I always want to pair them with other movies as double features but also as sort of like comparative points where like I set her smell in climax Queen of Earth which I really really actually liked which is so unsettling which is Elizabeth Moss and Catherine Waterston are friends and they're staying at a lakehouse cabin

and Patrick Fuget is there and it's one of those things where it's like it's a psychological terror kind of a thing where you're always wondering, are there really two people here? Or is this, like, one of those movies that's going to turn out to be only one of them as real? And I always want to pair that one with Mother, especially because there's a scene where, like, everybody's coming at her and sort of, like, you know. Golden Exits, I always compare negatively to, it's like his Hollif Center movie, his Iris Axe movie, and, like, it compares, I think, negatively to those. Listen Up Phillips sort of slots in with like all of those sort of tortured Brooklyn genius.

He's not a mumblecore guy, but you always sort of want to lump him into like the insufferable Brooklyn. The other part, the problem, it's not his fault. It's not Alex Ross Perry's fault that he looks like Alex Ross Perry. Like it's not his fault that he looks like a Jason Schwartzman character. I think a lot of people... So you prescribe that character to be Alex Ross Perry? And a lot of people watch. listen up Philip and we're like, oh, is this about you? Are you this awful person? And he's like,

no. And it's like, okay, and I believe you. But also, you don't cast someone who looks exactly like you. You starred in the color wheel as, you know what I mean? You've starred in your own movies. And then you've cast somebody who looks exactly like you. So like sometimes we do, and I think there is a not insignificant part of Alex Ross Perry that wants to provoke people like that, wants to get people to sort of like have those reactions. And like, I don't think he wants you to watch his movies and be a happy person. I think he wants you to be a little bit miserable while you're watching these movies. And it kind of has that. And like, he's an NYU kid. You know what I mean? And he's, you know, idolizes Philip Roth and idolizes, you know, pinch on. And, you know, he's not, he wants to be a little

bit of, if not a lot bit of a sort of difficult, a non-cudely, you know, sort of persona. I I imagine he wants to be a little bit of an anti-West Anderson. You know what I mean? But anyway. The thing about Alex Ross Perry that I feel like in this movie is I feel like we, when this movie came out, we as fans of this movie, did a great job of hyping up the Elizabeth Moss performance and giving her performance it's due. I don't actually at this point, looking back, I was thinking about this while watching this movie, I don't think we did a good enough job. of hyping up Alex Ross Perry's achievement with this movie

because I do think it is a huge creative leap even if it just sounds like it's a character story I think the development of this world that exists that feels so incredibly tangible like Becky something could so

easily just be you know this monster of her behavior but like I think the achievement of like investing the audience in her humanity And, like, this idea of Becky something being a persona, a mask, if you will, in terms of the phantom of the opera inspiration. Where are the candelabras, Alex? Where were the candelabras in the backstage environment?

The candelabras in this backstage set are just cigarettes. They're cigarettes. You light enough cigarettes, it'll light a room. But it is, like, maybe an underground lake. Yeah. Like a fire. I think also the story structure of this movie unlocks so much just in terms of juxtaposition. That first act, it's surprising when you get the cues from the dialogue of they are just beginning their dissent as a popular scare quotes group in this scene because we've seen the interstitials between every act is all of this like, you know, camcorder footage.

First spin cover, their first platinum record, like, yeah. And, like, you see them at, like, such an ascent where they're so excited first in that footage. And then when you get intact one, it's like, oh, that period we just saw is over. And it may never come back. Sorry for the delay. Sorry for the quick technical delay. We are back and recording again. And Chris, take it from where you left off.

I was talking about just like the structure of the story and, you know, Alex Ross Perry's achievement of the movie. I think that that fourth act comes as a real gut punch because you think you're kind of on the, on the, you know, this crazy ride. And then it just like the bottom drops out in a way that I think is incredibly effective. Yeah. Actually, like, act four, you remember it being shorter than it is. and those silences go on for long. I think it's actually one of the longest portions of the movie, and you certainly don't remember it that way.

Yeah. And I think the fifth act I remembered as being longer than what it is. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Because in the experience of watching it the first time, it does feel like time is like just excruciatingly slow, and you're just like, oh, my God, can they just get on stage and everything be okay?

please be okay please don't you know be falling off the wagon please don't you know nothing bad is happening it's amazing how much you want her to succeed after being so like repulsed by her in the first three acts you're not if not repulsed just but like she works so hard to make you not feel you know warmly towards her maybe there's just something wrong with okay i get it you want Becky something to be your best friend i get it i don't want her to be my best friend but I'm not just like, oh my God, I want her to go away or like. No, but I just mean, you know, I just, maybe I just have too much patience for a woman who slays. Like, you know, I watch Gone Girl and Amazing Amy is, uh, hero icon legend.

Wait, okay, maybe there is something wrong with you. I have a lot of patience for bad behavior. Maybe, maybe, maybe there is, if you're watching Gone Girl and you're being like, I love Amazing Amy so much, maybe you are, maybe we are just different. kinds of people. Honestly, con that man. Well, it's Ben Affleck. Of course you're going to con Ben Affleck.

But, like, we say these things to sound cool. But, like, I don't know if I necessarily... No, I mean, I'm half joking here, but it is also just like... Yeah. I don't care if someone's unlikable if it's a vehicle for a good performance. I don't think it makes the movie bad, but I also feel like I can... I hate the word unlikable. I hate calling things out.

All right, all right. Difficult women, Chris. I hate all. difficult women. That is what I'm saying here. That's not what I think you're saying. I sometimes think the culture says it though. But no, I think Alex Ross Perry also achieve something incredible here. I mean, this movie dodges, I think, all of the cliches kind of at every turn of what this could be. But I just think the scope and the depth of this world that we're placed in. It just feels like

all of the right decisions are made because I think you know, we have all these pop culture references that people, you know, use to describe what this movie is like, you know, the Courtney loves, the Axel Roses. But like, you know, the lesser version of this movie has

a Courtney Love cameo. Or it draws from actual real world characters, you know, where there's like you know, hole is the headliner for this show. Right, right, right. And the movie doesn't want anything, for lack of a better word, cutesy like that. You know, it just wants to authentically place us in this world. And then at every turn, it almost wants to give itself the most difficult version of drawing up that authenticity.

Yeah. I will also say in terms of like the authenticity and making it like the, making this seem like a real world that exists. real bands that exist. This movie has been one of the few times that I have succumbed to the idea of merch. Because I have a something she shirt. I wish I had gotten that Acre Girls shirt. And because like they did have like a lineup of merch for this movie, which like I hope it made them some money. The design work on if you watch the closing credits, all of the fake album cover. that are, and there's like I forget who wrote it up, but I'll find it and I'll put it in the

on the Tumblr. Yeah, because it's like all of the Something She album covers, the Becky Something album she did with the Acre Girls, all the Acre Girls albums, all the Zelda albums, the album that Allie does with her fiancee by the end of the movie, like all of this stuff, it's all, there's just album comes for all of it. There's a fake 33 and a third cover for the big something, she breakthrough album like it's so much good stuff it's somebody had a very good time doing all

this even the vinegar syndrome uh blu-ray which we both own a copy of um has like that artwork in it too it's just like yeah it's it's bespoke in a way that's not annoying yes in a way that some of the like merch stuff that happens now to help like you know i love the inventiveness of it But, like, it can feel annoying and cynical at a certain point. You're about to make fun of A24 tote bags, aren't you? Aren't you? No. I can't make fun of A24 too much because, like,

this probably would have been a movie that would have done better if they would have picked it up. And, like, Alex Ross Perry has talked about how this movie, after it premiered, I think the word that he used was silence. You know, and they had all of those, they had all of the distributors that could have gotten more eyeballs on this thing, see the movie, and they didn't... Here's the problem with the movie like this is there are audiences out there that are willing to put up with unsettling, off-putting, I don't know, I don't want to trigger you here, but you know what I mean, unsettling, not movies that aren't going to make you feel super great, the problem is, and like A-24 has, helped cultivate the audience for those movies. The problem is almost all of those movies are horror movies, actual horror movies. This is a movie that kind of like borrows some from like horror aesthetics, but is ultimately you're never going to be able to and you wouldn't want to fool anybody

into thinking like this is a horror movie. So it's instead a movie about a rock band and a, you know, a drug addict and somebody who's, you know, it's, there's less of a hook. And I think H. has been good at finding audiences for movies like this, but I still feel like something like her smell is just going to be a harder sell. Because what you are asking for is the audience that would show up for a horror movie to show up and appreciate a movie that isn't horror. Do you know what I mean? And I think anybody who showed up and really...

I think you're right to call some of that out for the horror stuff. But the thing about them, I think, is mostly that they are, you know, They're very smart with marketing In that I think the way that they market things Sometimes break down those barriers of entry Not just to horror movies I also think they have a lot of good movies That they haven't done right by

And then they also try to like shove Full garbage down our throats like The Whale Yes But I think like the audience who showed up to see Midsomar In the theater would have appreciated her smell and I don't know whether they would have

shown up to her smell because that's not like with something like Mitzamar you are at least being sold it's all about known quantities right and it's all about promising audiences that they will at least get that they will know

what they're going to get out of a movie and they're adventurous with horror because they might not know what kind of horror they are getting but they know what horror movies are and they know the emotional feeling they're going to get out of it they're going to be scared

They're going to be freaked out. They're going to be, you know, they're going to enjoy it. They're going to be thrilled by it. And that's the promise that you make to a horror audience. And that's why you can get audiences to movies that are original scripts and that are maybe a little bit weirder because those audiences are more willing to take that chance because they know that at the very least, I know the roller coaster that I'm going to be on. And I think if you had said to those audiences, you would have to like sit them down one by one

and be like, the emotional rollercoaster that you go on with a horror movie is going to be replicated in some way or another by her smell. And you are going to get an experience out of watching this. Now, it is not horror. It is not, you know, what you are expecting. But, like, but you really have to almost, like, really, like, make a very detailed case. And ultimately, marketing is about quicker cases. And this got picked up by Gunpowder and Sky that does not that. I don't think they even exist anymore.

Yeah. that didn't have that type of, you know, funding to be able to put towards a movie like this. You know, like this, this is a movie that would have had to have been handled with care. And I think the people that could have, for reasons, did not, you know, pick up this movie. And Alex Ross Perry is, I think, smart to talk about the, like, financial infrastructure of what the movie world is like. because it has kind of flattened in a way. Like, there is no infrastructure for, like, an alt movie scene anymore. It doesn't exist.

Yeah. And, like, even the art house... That is true. Alt is a good way of describing it. Because, like, indie film has a connotation and an aesthetic. And I think Alex Ross Perry's movies are even more of a notch further to the margins of that. And I think Alt is probably a good way of... describing them. We have so much to do in terms of the 250th extravaganza stuff

plan that, like, I do want to, though quickly, I want to talk about the Elizabeth Moss of it all, not just the performance, because we've talked about that, but sort of her as a film and television star at this point in her career when her smell comes along. So by this point, I'm curious as to what, where you first sort of encountered, Elizabeth Moss, because she was a kid in a couple of the movies that we've already covered. We talked about 1,000 acres, and we've talked about anywhere but here. And she's, you know, she's not a major part of those movies, but she's a kid in those. And Girl Interrupted, which probably would have been the first time I'd seen her.

I was going to say, Girl Interrupted in the West Wing, both happen around the same year. And so those were the two things that I first came into knowing Elizabeth Moss on screen. And it's like two, obviously, two very different characters. She's, you know, she's got those scars and girl interrupted. She's survived a fire, right? That's what... Yes, I believe. She's that character.

And she's so sort of delicate and... And she's, on the West Wing, she's, like, the youngest of the three Bartlett siblings. She's by far the one who gets the most screen time to the point where, like, Annabeth Gish doesn't show up as the oldest Bartlett daughter until, like, season five or something like that, season four or five. And she has like, she's the storyline, she's dating, you know, the president's assistant, and it's a whole thing. But she's, you know, she's really good. She sort of, like, grows up, you know, on that show, which is pretty cool. And so by this point, by the time her spell comes along, she's been on Mad Men, she's like, everybody loves her performance on Madman.

And rightly so. She's been nominated for a bunch of Emmys. She never won an Emmy for Mad Men, which is too bad. But nobody ever won an Emmy for Manman, except for finally John Hamm in its last season. It was kind of notorious for, like, getting all these nominations and winning best drama every year, but none of the actors ever won. And then she's on The Handmaid's Tale, which, like, right show, right time, you know, premieres so soon after the Trump election. Everybody is so on edge about what this, you know, what this all means and the misogyny of it all. That show is still running, right?

It's one more season to go. Yeah, she's about to get nominated for another Emmy for it. Like, I guarantee you it's about to happen. But I've said this before. Handmaid's Tale is one of those shows. You always wonder, like, what are the shows that, like, we are watching in our bubble and what are the shows that everybody else is watching? Everybody else still does watch the Handmaid's Tale.

And they will be like, boy, it's gotten really, really tough to watch. We'll be watching the last season. You know what I mean? Like, people have just sort of, they need to see how it ends. And I get it. I get it. So. I was out after season.

season two. I was like, you know, I get that too. I think I was out in season two. I don't know if I even made it to the end of season two. Yeah, it got to be less. Yeah. I mean, maybe it was a show that was like drinking its own Kool-Aid in the space of it, but also I was just like, at the time, I was like, I don't know if I can continue to consume this in the moment we are in. So she's on The Handmaid's Tell she wins the Emmy in September of 2017. She had been on top of the lake, she's in which, she's in both of the seasons of top of the lake, right? Yes. She's the main character, 2013 and 2017. So 2017, she's in both the Handmaid's Tale and the second season of Top of the Lake. Since that Emmy, in 2018, she's in the Seagull, which is she's one of the more prominent roles. She is, I mean, talk about a purposefully unlikable character in that, too.

Like, she is a sour patch kid in that movie. But she's fun. I like her a lot in that movie. She's what? Masha? That's her character? Yeah. She's also very briefly in The Old Man in the Gun, which we've also talked about

on this podcast. 2019, her smell hits theaters in the spring. She's in us. We've talked about us. This is our seventh Elizabeth Moss movie, by the way. We did a six-timers last time. And then she's in the kitchen, a movie we were both very excited for. We will eventually do it on this podcast.

Oh, the kitchen. I was so excited. One of the disappointments of my life. Yeah. And then 2020, just before the pandemic hits, it's a lot of people's last pre-pandemic movie. Or was The Invisible Man the first movie that was released on... It was in that batch of first movies, but it is a lot of people's last movie before lockdown. It did get a theatrical release. I saw it on VOD, but it was like, it was probably still March when I saw it. I really love it. I know you don't like it as much. she elevates that movie I don't think the movie's very good she's also in the oh what's the filmmaker's name

Shirley oh Josephine Decker she's tremendous I keep wanting to say Jennifer Kennedy Shirley yeah which I think if you know that had not been trampled by the pandemic I think that's a movie that would have had

more of an imprint she's tremendous in it Shirley's another movie where I just I think about Shirley and all I see is Elizabeth Moth's face, Elizabeth Moss's face, sort of staring at the camera with her glasses on and being like, like, you know, sizing you up with a frown on her face.

Like, that's surely. But then, since then, she's only ever been in film-wise. She has a very small role in the French dispatch, although I kind of love her in that. The kind of moment of Elizabeth Moss will just show up and do your movie for three days and have, you know, two scenes. And it seems like she's going to be, if not the love interest, then like, second or third lead in Next Goal wins, which is the Taika Waititi soccer movie that had to be shelved for various reasons, one of which was COVID, second of which was editing Army Hammer out of all of it, replacing him with Will or Net.

Tyco Waititi also had to do a full press round and filming of a Marvel movie. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So this is, as you mentioned when we were texting the other day, you're like, I think this is the last pre-COVID movie to come out. Like, this is... Yeah, like, COVID isn't over until next goal wins. It's going to be a tiff. I'm... I watched the trailer again today, and I have to tell you,

I'm a little excited to see it. I know, like, it's... Good. I'm happy for the people that are happy to see this movie. I don't... I've fooled myself into thinking I don't like Tycho Waititi, and it's because I don't like his Thor movies. And... But, like, even Jojo Rabbit, I liked more than a lot of the haters did. I didn't love it, but, like, a lot of people, like, bone deep despised that movie.

And I was like, it's got its moments. And I really loved his earlier movies. They loved Wilder People, and I loved the what we do in the shadows movie. I think Ragnarok rules, but. Yeah, I just. I'm otherwise, I do like, but I think that, the fact that you like Ragnarok, I think we just, it, it illustrates our approaches to the Marvel movies, where I like the story of it all. And you like when the movie ignores the story of it all. You know what I mean?

When, like, you want to watch one little piece of it and not have to think about the other stuff. And I want the other stuff. So I am a soap opera fan. It's amazing to me that people complain that, like, Spiderverse or Dune are, quote, half a movie. Yeah. But then they're fine with any of these, like, interconnected Marvel movies that are not a full story. We really, we are, this episode's going to go way too long. But, like, we, I do think there is a reason for that.

I think Marvel movies are more episodic than people give them credit for. I think most Marvel movies, even though people complain about that you have to watch until the end credits and then see where the next thing comes, and there are Easter eggs planted that won't hatch until the next one. But for the most part, most Marvel movies do, like, tell their own little story within the greater story. They very rarely do you see a Marvel movie that just, like, ends on a cliffhank. And I think it's that cliffhanger thing.

But you do have to engage with the full story to be able to sometimes even base level understand. I agree. I agree. But I think it's that cliffhangerness that that makes people dissatisfied in terms of like, I think it's the thing where you get to the end of Spider-Verse part one, or across the Spider-Verse part one. And for me at least, who was like only kind of, I loved the visuals of Spider-Verse, but the story was like, I thought the story was kind of under. conscionably inside baseball with all the, like, you know, the sacred canon or whatever. But then you get to the end of the movie, and I'm like, yeah, now it's the good part. The band's back together.

We're going to have a fight. And they're like, boom, see you next movie. And I'm like, God damn it. Dune is a little bit different, where it's like going into Dune, I'm like... I disagree with people who say this about Dune. Though maybe I don't, because maybe this, my major hang-up with the movie is this that we're talking about just in a different way.

My major hang-up with that movie is Paul sucks. Paul is not an interesting character. There is no character development of Paul in that movie, and it's a huge hang-up. All of the character development happens in the second half of that story. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is why Dune, the book Dune is one book. Like, that's why that's the thing with dividing it into two

is you really are. and I imagine there will be people who come out of... I think it's almost fatal for that movie that, like, Paul is suddenly having a fight? Like, what? Yeah. This makes, like, none of that pays off for me. Well, the last thing that happens is, like,

that's your answering the call fight, essentially. You know what I mean? Like, that is your, like, that fight is essentially supposed to, like, enter him into the movie, so... Yeah. And I like Dune Part 1, and I'm excited for Dune Part 2, but there is something...

I don't disagree with you there. And that, like, and I am a... bigger Chalemay fan than a lot of people are. I think a lot of people tend to get frustrated with the... Oh, I think his performance is right. I think the... Yeah. This has been our mainstream segue in this episode.

Back to Lizzie Moss. Wait, so, okay, but here's my thing about Elizabeth Moss is she just hasn't been in movies since 2020, since essentially Shirley. Well, we think that she's gone because she's on it. She's still on a TV show that we don't watch. That's why we think she's gone. Sure, but she was making the movie show. at TV show all through 2018,

2019, 2020. You know what I mean? And maybe she just didn't want to have to deal with over-scheduling. And she was just like, I won't do anything until, you know. Yeah, maybe she's taking a back seat because she was so overworked, you know, because she's going and doing a week on a movie set for a movie that she's not really in that much.

Do you still think there exists the idea of people are TV stars, some people are TV stars more than movie stars? Because people have said that about her. We're like, she's so great on TV. She's such a favorite on TV. And then she's in movies, and the movies that she's all in are either smaller or, like, the kitchen, they don't really work. And even in the kitchen, she's not like the lead.

I did have a thought watching this movie, and it's maybe a trite, simplistic thought, but it is also true. That if her smell was a mini-series, but had the same tonal quality, had the same all of it, no one would make the complaints that they make about this movie. No one would say that. And it would be like one of the most treasured television performances ever. I think if her smell was a miniseries, I think they would try and sell it like they sold the idol. Because they would... That's what I mean, though. That's what I mean.

I think... Rest and piss, the idol. Like... Yeah. I was listening to You Must Remember This earlier today. And they were talking about... Oh, fuck. was they mentioned she mentioned barry levinson and i can't remember in what context um but uh she

said barry levinson father of father of uh sam levinson i know she got i was like fuck yeah carina that's awesome um well is it also i almost made one of the movies that she's that she talked yeah yes that's what it was it was in the disclosure and uh last seduction yeah no it is disclosure talk about a fucking piece of shit yeah Was it that he almost made disclosure? Was that the deal? Okay. No, he did make disclosure.

Oh, he did direct disclosure? He directed disclosure. Okay, well, and that's what we were talking about. Disclosure, which by the way, has the same finale as Freddy's dead? Like, I did not know that. Wait, the one where they put it, where he impales her on a- They both go into virtual reality. Oh, the virtual reality.

That's right. Oh, no, it was, it's the Jason movie where the guy tries to impale his corpse with a thing of rebar and then lightning strikes the rebar and a rean. made some books. No, that's cool. Yeah, no, that is cool. I didn't know whether that happened to be more at the end of disclosure. This was the first week of no new you must remember this.

I'm sorry. The summer break, summer vacation, because I was very up to date on it. I was very rabid about it. This week, total vibes of feel out pure shit, just won her back. Cannot wait for the fall finale of the Iraq 90s miniseries. Or series, basically. Before we exit the Elizabeth Moth discussion, she was essentially, this movie, her smell,

didn't get a ton of awards attention, even among the critics who loved it. But she did get nominated for both an Independence Spirit award. She really needed like a New York Critics Prize or something. Well, the New York critics that year went for Lupita, right? That was the year of us. Yes, which like, perfect call, great call, did what they could for that performance too.

I, of the two of that, oh, there's both such good performances. I don't know. Right. That's the thing. Okay, anyway. Well, she's Indy Spirit nominated. She's Gotham nominated, which, like, those groups doing the right thing of, you know, making sure that she's in those lineups. The Indy Spirit won, like, and this is not a performance I really like to shit on in any way, because I love Renee Zellwiger.

But Indy Spirit's giving the award, too. I understand Judy is an Indy Spirit. independent production. At least Judy is an independent movie. Guys come on. I know. I know. It's very disappointing. Zellweger wins for Judy en route to the Oscar. Other nominees were Alfred Woodard for clemency, good nomination. Hong Chow for driveways. A movie I still haven't seen, even though I really liked Andrew Awn's Fire Island. So I want to go back and check that out. Karen Allen for a movie called Colwell that like, God bless the Indie Spirit Awards for still having movies where I can go back and be like,

never heard of it once in my life. She apparently plays a postal worker. Kind of want to watch it now. Karen Allen is a postal worker. Cool. And then Mary Kaye plays in Diane, which I'll always remember the year because it was the Laura Dern year, because in the gay men's chorus singing to Laura Dern thing at the Indies Spirit Awards, they mentioned the title of the film, Diane, as being inherently queer and they're not wrong. dancing to Fiona Apple And K.A.

Twix talking about snakes. The title of the film, Diane. But it's just like, this is what happens when your awards are voted upon by people who pay to vote for... This is your bugaboo. This is what happens.

Like, the Indie. spirits are there to give awards to Alphrey Woodard in clemency or Mary Kay Place and Diane or Elizabeth Moss in her smell. What are we doing here? One of these days, when you can pay to vote for an award show. You're going to, David Lynch style, buy a cow and put up a placard, and it's just going to be like get paid awards, get paid members out of film independent. and you are finally going to,

we can't have this conversation now, but we're going to have a conversation about the paid awards voters for the Golden Globes, which I think is maybe not the worst idea on the world, but we'll talk about it. Some other time. Gotham Awards. Wait, I want to say about the Gotham Awards,

because you are irked, as am I, that Renee Zellweger for Judy wins the Independence Beard Award. I'm kind of similarly irked that of all the nominees at the Gotham Awards that they gave it to Aquafina for the Fair Well. The Farewell is a good movie. Aquafina is good in the Farewell. Listen to who she's nominated against, though. It's Elizabeth Moss and her smell, Alfrie Woodard and Clemency, Mary K. Place and Diane, and Florence Pugh and Midsomar. Every single one of those performances is better than

Aquafina in the Farewell. And the Gotham Awards are supposed to know better. They're supposed to be... The jury. They're juried. Everybody's smarter than me. And, like, they all know better. And they have, like, this exquisite taste. And they're hoity-toity. And they're hoity. and they all are, and whatever. And it's like, well, then pick a better winner than Aquafina in the Farewell. I don't mind Hoity Toidy. I don't use that as pejorative. I don't either usually, but the Gotham voters think their shit don't stink sometimes.

And like, I don't know. This is not a great, this is not a great win. I will say it. It's not how I would vote. It's not how I would vote. If I had four votes, I wouldn't have gotten that, yeah. Not a movie that at this point in my life. I want to revisit because I was disheveled leaving that theater.

It was pressing buttons that I don't love to have pressed. Yeah. All right. Great movie. Elizabeth Moss, before we move on, I just want to say to that two or three listeners who want to yell at us for loving her so much, we adhere to the Tara Ariano. You can like one Scientology. She's the one that I choose, and we're moving on. I do also like Juliette Lewis is the problem. Yeah, Juliet Lewis is always the snack. For people, it's like, yeah, but I just want to love Tom Cruise. It's like, yeah, but I just want to love Julia Lewis.

I don't know. Tom Cruise is not the Scientologist I'm breaking the rule for. It will be Juliette Lewis rocking out to Britney Spears in her car. That is why I will always love Juliet with this. All right. So 250 episodes, Chris. Every 50 episodes, we do some sort of extravaganza. It's a nice way to look back at the year that we've had.

Here's what I will say. This last batch of 50, from 201 to 250, we maybe have to get back into doing bad movies because we've done a ton. This batch is a strong batch. I remember the last time I was kind of on throwing my little awards to the same five or six movies. And in this one, I'm like, oh, I have like 15 movies

that I could put on a list. Like, my best actress list had to be whittled down from, like, 18 absolutely flawless performances. And it's like, God damn it. Well, I mean, I don't think we've broken format, but, like, we've definitely done in the past year better movies and not necessarily better movies, like, they surprised us that they were good. Right.

Like, movies that we're going into it. Let's keep an eye on that for the next 50. that is indicative of our stress levels and our schedules. Oh, let's just do away we go. It'll be nice. Right. Yeah. We make this promise to you.

We will do more dear Evan Hanson. We'll do more dog shit. The episodes we have planned moving forward. Give us a few months to get into that because we have, you know. Also, it's not, again, we don't, we're not that. calculating when we make our selections. We don't actually do like, oh, we got to do a movie we hate and then a movie we love. Sometimes it's fun to not know whether we will like or not like a movie.

So, um, as is the case with everything has illuminated, a movie that I thought I would not like and I ended up really liking. So that's always an interesting, uh, case. All right. So. Where do we want to start? Because we do also have our fun multiple categories for supporting actress. Do we want to go that route?

Do we want to start with our top 10? Let's, you want to start? Yeah, let's start from the top. That's an interesting, that's an interesting strategy. You know what? Why not? All right. So I chose a top 10 rather than a top five, sticking with sort of Oscar structures.

What would have been interesting? We haven't done best director because we were like, well, we'll just have the same thing. I did five best director nominees, and I do have one lone director. Oh, okay. Two lone directors, actually, because I rejiggered my list at the last second. Yes. I don't have a best director list prepared, but I would love to hear yours. Okay. So my best director list is, of the, this is chosen from the last 50 movies that we have done on this podcast.

I have Spike Lee for 25th hour. I have Sean Durkin for Martha Marcy May Marlene, Jordan Peel for us, Kelly Reichert for First Cow, and James Gray for the Lost City of Zed. Yeah, I probably would have had Spike Lee in there as a lone director as well. Well, I'm presuming 25th hour is not in your... It's not in mine, but I might have had him as a lone director. What is your top ten films? All right, let me give you this top ten. Okay. In alphabetical order.

The mine are as well. After hours, first cow, her smell, the Lost City of the... Z, love is Stranger, uh-huh, Magic Mike, double X-L, mermaids,

uh-huh. Private life, us, and young adult. We have five in common, and five not in common, which I kind of love. Oh, okay.

Uh, half and half. Lay it on me. My top ten are 25th hour, uh, after hours, away we go. First cow.

The meddler, mermaids, a prairie home companion, pride, private life, and us. Prairie home companion should maybe be in my top ten now that I'm thinking of it, but I probably, I could also have that as a lone director. But like, Lost City of Zed, love is strange, her smell, all were like on the periphery for me as well, so. I also felt like my top ten, I was like, I leaned hard into the advocacy. Yeah.

Because like, you know, Prairie. Home Companion, I was like, there's plenty of fans of Prairie Home Companion. It's not revolutionary to call a Robert Altman film. Sure. Great. But I think I... I do think it's an equal standing of the movies in my top ten. When I was ultimately making my, like, tie-breaking

decisions, I was like, I'm just going to put the movies that I like watching the best. Like, this is my own little list. It's not going to mean anything. I don't have to publish it anywhere. I don't have to whatever. I'm just going to put the movies that I like watching the best. And so it's Mermaids and the Medlar and Prairie Home Companion.

and pride and the way we go. And that's just all there is to it. And with some stuff, like, I'm glad that I put after hours in there, which is like a new fave, which I had never seen before. And, you know. Everybody grab that criterion when it comes out. Yeah. All right.

So why don't you lead us off then with Best Actor? Yeah, let's just burn off Best Actor. No one cares about them. And who cares? I like, I have, I like my lineup, though, I will say. I am a fan of this lineup This was maybe a tiny I wouldn't say uncrackable

But like it is close to it Mr. Charles Hunnam For the Lost City of Zed John Magarro first cow Edward Norton 25th Hour Tye Sheridan Mud

Channing Tatum Magic Mike Double Extra Large Magic Michael We match three of five So I too have Charlie Hunnam I too have John McGarrow And I too have Ty Sheridan

I also have And Edward Norton was like a close six for me Billy crewed up for stage beauty Which Remains one of my favorite performances And then Robert Redford for the old man in the gun Great call Charming, charming old man

The same two that were close for myself Yes Are we do winners Are we doing winners? No you know what? What? I just like, let the five. Let the five hang out. This is a, this is for family. This is a buffet. Everyone's family here. It's just family here. Yes. Let's do supporting actor. You just like get those, get the men out of the way. No one cares about men. All right. Um, my supporting actor ballot in order. This I think is a really, like, I have five runners up, but they're like kind of decidedly runner up. Um, Brian Cox in 25th hour. John Hawks in Martha Marcy May Marlene. Bob Hoskins in. Mermaids, John Lithgow in Beatrice at dinner, and Andrew Scott in Pride. This is a good lineup.

Thank you. I know that you will understand the pain that it gives me to have not put Bob Hoskins in this line up. But I knew you would come through. Thank you. So I felt fine doing it. I have Winston Duke for us. All of Winston Duke are just the thighs.

I mean, if I had done. done special prizes. I didn't do special prizes this year, but if I had. John Hawks, Martha, Mar, Mar, Mulah, Buh, Bha, Bha, Bha, Bha, Bha, Bha, John Hawks in Mm-mm, Mm-mm, Orion Lee for his cow, Angus McFadion, the Lost City of And, and Alfred Molina in Love is Strange. He was a runner-up for me as well, yes. We got to keep the extra supporting actress categories, but we should maybe move these to gender neutral next year.

We'll talk. We'll talk about it. All right. Best lead actress was a war crime against me. To have to choose only five. I almost suggested that we break this one up into six categories, but ultimately, like, since there's only one, there's mostly just one female lead per movie, then we would just be, like, all choosing the same.

I also suggested doing a top ten, but I said, You know what? This is a good exercise. This is like, to be this ruthless is a good, it's a good exercise. It's honestly a good place to be. You never want to have this ballot be poultry. Right. Because then it's just a bad state of affairs.

Oh, mine is like, it's steel plated. It really is just like there's, there's no fucking with it. Okay. In alphabetical order, I'm now realizing I have three. from the same year, or no, well, anyway, maybe three from within two years. Catherine Hahn for private life. Elizabeth Moss for her smell. Lupita Nyango for us, Susan Sarandon for the medler, and Charlize Theron for young adult.

Yes, that means that I have left off both leads for mermaids. I need you to know. I thought you were going to come through. pained by that I removed those easily because I was like well Joe's gonna vote for those I really wanted to

We'll get them in there I really wanted to But like my two adjudiccissy picks though I'm glad that we don't Well not that I'm glad that we don't I figured maybe they wouldn't be there for you But I needed them To show up

And they're the two off the top And then we have three overlap Salma Hayek Beatrice at dinner Was very close Godmother of this podcast She has to be there. She's on the list right after the two mermaids leads.

And then Diane Lane for a walk in the moon. Very good. One of the ones that, like, not a discovery, because it was in the conversation, but one of the ones that I just, like, felt very good about, like, adding that to the repertoire this past year in the show. Yeah. And then Lizzie Moss for Smell, Lupido Nongo for us, and Charlie's therein, young adult. I'm realizing now that private life is 2018. because, of course, the roundtable that Catherine Hahn and Rachel Weiss pawed at each other were Rachel Vise for the favorite, which is 2018. Okay.

I mean, that's a really good list, Chris. Good list. Yeah. A list good enough to make me be like, you know what, it's good that we're not picking winners because that would be brutal. I'm saying. I'm saying. I'm saying. My list, just the long list went on and on.

Like, I need to send an apology note to Joan Allen and Jennifer Lopez and Carrie Russell. Okay. Supporting actress normal? Okay. Supporting actress. Let's do supporting actress normal last. Okay. Okay.

So to remind you of our, one, we have supporting actress normal and then five weirdo supporting actress categories. They are. Best supporting actress, cameo. Best supporting actress, character name. best supporting actress Hair and Makeup Best Supporting Actress

Line Reading And Best Movie That Best Lineup Of Supporting Actresses That you could all be From One Movie Yes So one movie

Five nominees Let's start with that one Because you and I Did this Defined this differently last time And I wonder And I can't remember Which way we were different

So I wonder if we maybe Did it again The last time I think I was The one With five movies. Yeah. Because I was like, well, I want to have, I want to spread the love and I never want to have any overlap.

That is not true of me this year. Oh, I have no overlap. Maybe depending on your vantage point, I am bringing chaos and confusion because I am allowing overlap. Okay. So what is your one movie that has five supporting actresses in it that are deserving of nomination? I'm just saying general I didn't even think like well they have to have at least five or whatever

my lineup for Best Supporting Actress lineup all of the supporting actresses in the film see this is what we did last time we've defined this category differently than each other and it's very funny that we did it again you know what it's fine no rules there are no rules the supporting actress

I have chosen after hours Beatrice at dinner her smell, obviously. Yes. The meddler and a prairie home companion. All very good and worthy. Okay, so what I have done is chosen a lineup of five supporting actresses that all come from one movie. So it's five, just five women.

So my movie is a prairie home companion. And from that, my lineup is Merrill Streep, Lily Tomlin, Lindsay Lohan, Virginia Madsen, and Jeryl and Steel. And so, with apologies to Maya Rudolph, it was also very funny in that movie, and Mary Louise Burke. Mary Louise Burke? Yeah, as the lunch lady. As the lunch lady. If I was doing that, I would have picked her smell. Okay.

Best Supporting Actress Cameo. Best Supporting Actress Cameo. Why don't I start, since you started with the last one? Yes, give a. Give us what I have. Alphabetical order, I have. Now, we're defining Cameo as one scene. sure you know what i mean one like all right all right here's i'm going to put it up to you

i'm stretching it a little bit with one but does maria jizziah and martha marcy may marlin count yeah sure okay then i'm saying maria dizzia and martha marcy may marlin carmen and jogo and away we go lily gladstone in first cow lindsay mozer in magic mike double xl You fucker! I thought I would be the fucking cool one saying that. Fuck you! And Colette Wolfe in Young Adult. Who do you have, Chris?

Well, my punchline was going to be Lindsay Mozer as Minimark cashier in Magic Mike Double XL, so fuck you. You know what? No, great. She deserves it. She does deserve it. from both of us. Yes. I have.

Yes. Melanie Linsky, away we go. Beautiful. I have Lily Gladstone, first cow. Nice. Alias Shawcat, first cow. Nice. And the baby at the bar, probably, first cow.

Fantastic. Fantastic. I will say, close six for me was Kate Burton and Where'd You Go, Bernadette? I did love her. one scene in that. Okay. Best Supporting Actress Hair and Makeup. You go first. I have. Glenn Close, Mary Riley.

Yes. Sorry, let me take that back. Glenn Close, Mary Riley. There we go. Constance Marie, Selena. Ciena Miller, The Lost City of Zed. Nice. Julianne Moore, Wonderstruck. Nice. And Michelle Pfeiffer Whig reveal, Murder on the that's a great one um we overlap twice so um i think we've done a good job there i have

glen close mary riley um the the the the the tammie brown lip on her is is enough to get her uh exquisite moi it's so good uh glan close and mary riley uh linda fiorantino and after hours Maggie Gyllenhaal in a way we go Which is also wardrobe That's just like a nomination for jewelry It's also wardrobe But it's also like I genuinely feel like Just the whole look of her in general is phenomenal

Constance Marie in Selena And Faye Marseille in Pride As Steph in Pride With her little punk look All right Best Supporting Actress Character Name Who do you have? I have

Penelope Cruz as Pilar Estravados, murder on the Orient Express. That's a good one. Amber Hurd as Zelda E. Ezekiel, her smell. Mary Beth Hurd as Jan Slade in young adult. Jennifer Jason Lee as Selena St. George, Dolores Blayborn. I almost had that, yes. And the kicker, Virginia Madsen as Dangerous Woman in a Prairie Home. companion. Okay, that's very funny. Basically, I just picked characters that are perfect drag

names. Yes. Yeah. Please welcome to the stage Dangerous Woman. I love that. All right. My five, that's a fantastic lineup. What is Mary Beth Hurts again? Jan Slade. Jan Slade. That's great. What a great Minnesota name. Okay. Agnes Dane in her smell as Mariel Hell. Virginia Madsen in her smell as Anya Adamchick. I think it's mostly just in the way that Elizabeth Moss says it. Sure. Anya Adamchick. Rosario Dawson in 25th hour as Natcharel Rivera, which is just exquisite.

Evan Rachel Wood in the upside of anger as Popeye. And Alicia Witt in the upside of anger as Hadley-Wadley. You have to use the nickname there. But, yes. All right. Line readings. Line readings. All right.

I'll go first. Okay. I have some good line readings. There was some competition here. I wonder, I'm very curious to see if we have any overlap. Mine are Tova Felchu for a walk on the moon when she says, It's a stupidest goddamn tradition. After she slaps her granddaughter, after she has her period.

Judy Parfit in Dolores Claybourne. An accident, Dolores. can be an unhappy woman's best friend. Uh, Jada Pinkett Smith in Magic Mike double X-L. Do you mind if I refer to you all as queens? Mena Trusler in Pride. Where are my lesbians? Where are my lesbians?

Uh, and Emma Watson in the bling ring. I want to rob. Oh, God, I should have put Emma Watson for, I could be a president of a small country someday, for all I know. For all I know. Um, I mean, like, I went basic with this, with this, I think, though, like, this is the category that I always wish we have no overlap and we have two. Do we really? Well, there are some really, really, like, demanding of attention ones.

I mean, yes. And the first of which is Judy Parfit saying, an accident, Dolores can be an unhappy woman's best friend. Yeah. Men are Trussler in pride. Where are my lesbians? Yes. Uh, and I, I, I, I, I, bringing chaos and confusion, I have double mena-trusler in pride. Die!

Your gaze have arrived. Ha ha ha! Uh, I mean, the queen. She had to be in here more than once. Um, Molly Shannon's bagel order in private life. I almost have that. Yes. Yolly and in everything bagel and get me a half a pound of wild, no.

Oh, get me a half quarter pound of wild nova. Uh, and. For Selena, the actress who yells, We wanted that! Get him with my life! I love that. I also had his runners-up. Elizabeth Moss in Us, it's vodka o'clock.

And Glenn Close in Mary Riley. My answer's always yes. All right. I almost put Glenn Close and Mary Riley, gobbledy cook. Yeah, well, all of that. The other quote I wrote down for her was, I'll say this for Henry Jekyll. He may ask for a few special services,

but he doesn't mind paying top whack. I need to be, I need to be, rather than doing this as preparation for this episode, I need to be keeping a list of these things throughout the year. I say that. I'm positive. I said this last time. All right.

Positive. Now, the big event. The most important category. So I had no overlap in anything. So all of the other people that I have mentioned were ineligible. for Best Supporting Actress, and I still have a banger lineup, I will say. So, my top five supporting actresses are, in alphabetical order, Connie Britton in Beatrice at dinner, Kaylee Carter in Private Life,

Terry Gar in After Hours, Sissy Spacic in The Old Man in the Gun, and Marissa Tomei in Love is Strange. This lineup rules. We have one overlap. I'm so happy about the one that overlap. I thought we weren't going to have any, and I was like, yes. Okay. But the one that we overlap on, I would not have predicted it, but like...

Ooh. It's so... I love that we have. Anyway, anyway, anyway, my lineup, and I'm being serious, dead serious. Okay. My lineup. Yeah. Glenn, close, Mary Riley.

My God, I love this. I love it. So good. I love it. it understands the assignment in a way that nobody understands the fucking assignment of that movie it's true the ironic thing is by the way i mentioned the tammy brown lip i recently watched uh sunset boulevard for the first time and so now i realize that tammy brown's whole face is uh is the is fucking sunset boulevard like it absolutely like that's what she pulled it from um sunset

Boulevard is like I mean listen to me good Sunset Boulevard good movie like shut up um okay but also it's worth saying because idiots like me have only just seen it for the first time this week so um but yeah the uh the oh my god

it's what I said in my letterbox review and this is me being just a shitty asshole but I'm like you dare to fucking stand Megan this year when like fucking that performance exists like Gloria Swanson in Sunset Boulevard.

Are you fucking kidding me? So, whatever. All right, continue. It's not the pictures that have gotten small. It's the dolls that have gotten big. 100%. Anyway. Glenn Close.

Mary Riley. Yes. Sienna Miller, Lost City of Zed. Good pick. Jada Pinkett Smith. Magic Mike. When you didn't have her for line reading, I was like, okay, she's in your main lineup.

Yeah, yeah. Spread the love. because you could put so many, so many lines. Our overlap, Sissy Spacec, the old man in the... That is an unexpected overlap, but yes. What a beautiful... She's great, yeah. And then Colette Wolf, young adult.

That's a good one. You put her in cameo, and she's in like three or four scenes, my friend. But she's in only one scene where she does much of a movie. It's the one scene that doesn't... She's in it less than Melanie Linsky is in a way we... go, I would say. There are gray areas. Yeah.

Anyway, Melanie Winsky's in the whole scene where they're at the house, and then they're pouring in syrup on top of the playing cards, and then she's doing the pole dancing. Like, that's a lot. She's in a lot of it. Anyway, anyway. I was very, very torn between

Terry Gar and Catherine O'Hara in After Hours, like trying to parse out all of the After Hour supporting actresses. For as much as, it's so funny. Did we talk about this when we had Mitchell on for that episode about how for all this talk of, and not

always, well, whatever, I don't want to get into Scorsese dialogue. But Scorsese Scorsese, you know, writing roles for women or not writing roles for women or whatever. Like, after hours is packed with supporting actresses in a way that, like, we love. Like, we love those kind of

movies. And, like, he hasn't really done it since. And it's on those characters' side. Yeah. Usually it's like one prominent female role. But, yeah. God. I know that this is the cliche rebuttal to that level

of Discorsese, but, like, just, will you fucking idiots watch Alice doesn't live here anymore? Okay. I mean, they are idiots. They are idiots. They are idiots.

But to be fair, Alice doesn't live here anymore was 1974. So, like, it's been... Fine. A while. It's been a minute. I don't think that, even though, yes, it is one movie that is 30, 40 years old at this point. I don't think that the art, the perspective of that movie, even though it is only one movie, that is not a new movie, I think it collapses.

I also kind of don't care. Martin Scorsese makes movies about men, and Nicole Hollif Center makes movies about women, and I'm fine with both of it. You know what I mean? Like, I don't need, I don't need it to be as, you know, demographically egalitarian as some people do. Anyway, I can, I can vibe with that. Good ballot for our 250th, Chris. Good job. We've done it again.

I want to go through my last remaining notes on her smell, most of which are random cast members. I caught, I thought I had caught Jesse Pinnock in the very. beginning of the movie as some sort of assistant or whatever, and it was Jesse Kinnick from Princess Sid. What's her name, Mari's girlfriend in the movie? I don't know if you caught this, is the cult chick from The Invitation, the one who shows up at the house. And is so fucking terrifying. And was there one more sort of small role? Maybe not. But those two, at the very least, I was like, oh, shit. The end credits are fantastic. The Runaways song, I loved. there's a point in the movie

and I can't remember which scene it is where Cara Delavine's character is just sort of pawing at Dan's face and I'm like, yeah, I get it. Like, yes, I would do that as well. Dirtpack Danny, I fucking love him. Kara Delavine getting second billing. Second billing.

What do you make of it? Do you just feel like she was a name that they really needed and so they like her agent? I mean, at the moment, too. It's pop. I mean, like, you wonder if maybe that was partly where, like, funding came from. Yeah.

You know. Yeah. I think Caradell beats good at this movie. I do, too, but she's not the second most prominent character, even if you take into account, like... It's not even Dan Stevens. Right. Like, if you're talking about in terms of, like, prominence, it's Elizabeth Moss, Agnes Dane, Dan Stevens, Gal Rankin, like, those are your top four. Yeah.

And then Stoltz gets the deserved width, one of the widths. Stoltz is good in this movie, too. I will say. Like, he's just that perfect level of, like, he's been putting up with this for so long that he can't possibly get, like, he doesn't get loud or angry. He's just sort of like,

my financial future rides on this absolute lunatic. So this is my life. He's great. He's so good. All right. Christopher 250 episodes. Wouldn't have rather do it with anybody else. We're going to keep doing

for as long as till the wheels fall off on this thing. Thank you for being here with me. Absolutely. And happy birthday, once again. I'm glad we could record this on your birthday. Aw. Aw. Now, go on vacation, you. All right. And listeners, once again, oh, we're going to play the MDB again. Don't worry. But once again. Of course. We'll do the Patreon thing after the MDB game. Let me do my final summations. Oh, yes. You don't want me to just bowl over you and just like keep on talking, talking, talking. That's fine. Jesus.

Listener Cyberbullie him. 250 episodes, and we haven't worked this out yet, by the way. You know what? Good movie. Also, I think, you know, this is not to shit on TIF. We love Tiff here. Of course we do. It is a massive ocean barge of a festival.

Lineup coming out soon. I know. How exciting. It was not the place to premiere this movie. Yeah, probably not. It's... This is a South by... Okay, let me read this to you

because I pulled up the schedule because, you know, re-reading the whole... That piece where Alex Ross Perry talks about the just like financial state for a movie like this. And talking about the non-response that they received in terms of distribution.

Yeah. TIF can be a hard place to be a movie without distribution. Right, yeah. These are the movies that it premiered against, as in these movies were doing their TIF premiere. That same day. Not just the same day, the same time. Yeah.

The same time slot. A Star is Born, if Beale Street could talk. Yeah. And then Laslo Nemesh's son's. set, which was not good movie. But the follow up to Son of Saul where it's like, maybe the artier, world cinema-minded people

will go to that movie too. It's like who, like, even just as a festival goer, like there's a lot of competition in that time slot and then also that night Claire Denise's high life had its world premiere. So it's

like, for a movie like this, that doesn't have distribution, that all those other movies had, you know, distribution with marketing plans and such behind it to get people hyped up for it. Like, yeah, yeah. I think this movie, especially for a movie that we've talked at length about how this is a movie that needed to be handled with care.

And, you know, for that to be, it's, I mean, like, I don't know if I have an alternative for a better launch pad for this movie. Right. I don't know if this movie would have been better to launch at, like, Sundance or even New York festival where, you know, it went to New York and it went to South By. It does feel like it's a, like, but South By, it was later, right? It was by the time it was South By, it was already gone through months and months of these other festivals.

It feels like a South By premiere might have been more exciting. I mean, I don't think Alex Ross Perry has ever had like a Cannes connection, but maybe like Cannes, even in like Directors Fortnight or something, might have been more hospitable for a movie that is finger quotes difficult. Right. But, like, you do really feel for the team behind this movie that, like, takes some huge creative leaps and, like, Elizabeth Moss, who's, like, putting her whole ass into this movie. Even, like, yeah, like a Sundance thing isn't a bad idea for this, you know what I mean? I don't know if this is a Sundance movie either, though.

I think sometimes it's Sundance, though, everything is so glum that, like, something with this kind of energy really has a chance to stand out. Maybe, but, like, I don't really see Sundance as a place where a difficult, rigorous movie like this does well, unless it's a genre movie, like a horror movie. Yeah, that's a good point. But, yeah, I mean, we talked about this. It's part of the reason, I think, why people like us who love this movie really, really stumped for it. And, like, you know, Alex Rosemary also did a full, like, open letter of consider Elizabeth Moss for best actress this year. know, which, like, was also winking of, like, and we know that there's not really much of a shot, but, like, at the critical level, for us, I think, you know, there was, like, it may not have been, like, it may have been more of a ploy to, like, and, like, it was in the conversation because of critics like us, but, like, it was a ploy to get, like, New York, L.A. film critics and such to. Well, and also, when your movie opens in April and is a festival holdover from the.

the year before, it takes a lot more of a concerted effort to, like, reach back and remember because you've had a whole other year of other movies that have, you know, that are competing for your advocacy as well. And, you know, you look, I mean, we talked about Lupita and Yango getting the New York Film Critics Prize, because, like, by that point, you know, other, other performances in other films are also, you know, also have critical champions. And, you know, There's only one prize for New York Film Festival. Or New York Film Critics. There's only one prize in L.A.

And, you know, that was the year where we kept being like, can somebody please give an award to Elfrey Woodard? And it's like there was, and Florence Pugh and Midsomar was that year. Like there were so, there was a lot of those lone wolf, I'm going to be the one to support this thing performances that year in particular, Diane, or Mary Kay Place and Diane as well. that you know

none of those performances were going to get Oscar and Alfred could and should have but otherwise you were just sort of you wanted to be the voice in the wilderness

sort of shouting for this one performance but that's a lot of different you know performances to shout about in one year which is in one way

good we have all these like this bounty of great performances and great movies but on another level it's frustrating because you want them

to get more of a you know more of their due than they're getting. Yeah. All right, Chris. We're going to play the IMDB game for the 250th time. Would you like to remind our listeners what the game is?

Every week we end our episodes with the IMDB game where we challenge each other with an actor or actress to try to get the top four titles that IMDB says they are most known for. If any of those titles are television, voice-only performances, or non-acting credits will mention that up front. After two wrong guesses, get the remaining titles release years as a C-L-U-E. If that's not enough, it just becomes a front. free for all of hints.

That's the IMDB game. All right, Chris, which would you like to do? Give first or guess first? Why don't I give first? All right. Since I decided to be diabolical-ish. Okay. I went into the Lizzie Mosque co-star background.

We talked a little bit about her performance on Mad Men. Yes. Who from Mad Men did I choose for you, none other than January Jones. First month of the year, Jones. Or as one of my favorite tweets ever from my friend, Ken Greller, January 6th Jones. Oh, no. Is that a thing we know about January? Oh, no, no, no, no, no.

It's just a pun. That's stupid and wonderful. Okay, all right. We love stupid puns. Okay. Any television? There's one television. Oh, thank God.

Mad Men. Mad Men. You know who's known for Mad Men is not on? Elizabeth Moss. Well, she's done a lot of other things. Her known four would not tell you that. Yeah, well, okay. X-Men First Class.

Correct. She's so far down the cast list in this, but it's also one of her bigger movies. So I'm going to guess, Love, actually. Incorrect. All right, now what else has January Jones done? It's the question. Remember when I said this was Diablo? I know, you're an asshole.

What other things? It's not because, like, she's never been, like, the girlfriend in a movie or, like, the love interest in the movie. Oh, shut up. Okay. Was she in any of those movies when she was dating Siddakas? Was she in, like? fucking seeing other people. Incorrect.

Your years are 2004 and 2011. 2004, so before Mad Men, but after Love Actually, is she, no, that wasn't that year, this is a sequel, and she's like not even the lead of the romantic pairing. Okay It's a romantic It's a sequel with a romantic pairing Is it a romantic? I think it's a romantic prequel

Okay Romantic side quill Okay But the genre is a romance Romantic comedy romantic drama Something like that Okay O4

Fairly reviled Whatever quill Was the first one not really well-liked either? Critically, no, but a massive match. Oh, is it Bridget Jones, The Edge of Reason? No. Fuck.

This is like Enduring Legacy movie. Enduring Legacy movie? Like, this movie has, like, everyone has seen this movie. Women of that time especially love this movie. It's an Oscar nominee. The sequel is or the original is? The original is. Everything you're describing to me

is Bridget Jones All of these clues for a change of Bridget Jones Over a decade between movies Like 15 years between movies So early 90s Maybe even 20 years between movies Late 80s even

Basically no connection between movies Fuck But the like But the title is It's like such and such too Yes such and such And such colon Such and such

I think maybe the star of the original has a cameo in this, though I'm not seeing it immediately on IMDB, and I feel like that would be there. So the original was Oscar nominated? Yes. Oscar winning. In the late 80s. Yes. Oscar winning below the line, but like, I mean, this Oscar win, I mean, come on. Like, yes.

Fuck. All right. An Oscar win that I would be positive. of you absolutely love. Fuck. Best original song. Best original song in the late 80s. So there wasn't a working girl.

There wasn't a working girl, too. There wasn't a, oh, it's Dirty Dancing Havana Nights. Dirty Dancing Havana Nights. Oh, my God. Yeah, all those clues per chain. Such and such. Yeah, yes.

January Jones is in Dirty Dancing Havana Nights. Good to know. Good to know. Okay. 2011, you say. 2011. This is not a franchise or sequel, but because of its star, you know, these are all in a soup. So it might as well be a franchise. So it's like a Jason Stapham movie? No. Vin Diesel movie. No.

Even soupier. Willis. Even soupier. Not even a stew. It's a full soup. You have broken out that, uh, not tenderizer. You've broken out that little stick thing that you stick in a pot with a bunch of ingredients in it and you make a soup with it. This star, at this point their movies are all a soup

of one thing and you cannot tell them apart. Adam Sandler. Though this is one I think made money. Okay. Comedy or action? Action. Okay. Was this person, like, more popular earlier on?

Is this like a later stage? Huh? Is this like a later career, like the things have just gone downhill? Definitely. Okay. Stallone. No. This is an Oscar nominee.

2011 movie is an Oscar nominee? No, the star is an Oscar nominee. In acting. Yes. One time? yes okay action star though in their later career oh and it's all a soup it's all a soup it's all a soup this is one of the ones that i think made money that doesn't have name branding oh fuck so this action star did have a franchise that the soup i think is just

confusing the audience slash maybe they don't even care sure this actor's movies are those movies but all right van dam was never Oscar nominated Jackie Chan was never Oscar nominated Chuck Norris was never Oscar nominated um you need a higher pedigree a higher pedigree this is a prestige actor but not like Tom Cruise not like no um Well, Tom Cruise, maybe not. Not to be ageist, but like, Tom Cruise would like you to believe that he is not in his 60s. Well, it's never going to happen.

Sorry, diva. We have a diva down. Tom Cruise, Tom Cruise needs triage. You know, him, you know, flying off of a motorcycle, the descent is diva down. So, prestige actor. who has done action, who's a prestige guy for action movies. You could argue that this is an actor who has lost that prestige because of this soup of action movies,

though shows up in a prestige movie that we really like and have had to strangely be on the defensive about. Not Bruce Willis. No. Cosmer? Bruce Willis is an Oscar nominee. No, I know. Costner?

No. makes a lot of movies. A lot of movies to the point that you do not pay attention to them. Oh, it's Nicholas Cage. Jesus Christ. It's not Nicholas Cage. My God. It's also, until this phase of this person's career, it was surprising that they only had one Oscar nomination. Harrison Ford.

No. Jesus Christ. There are one Oscar. nomination was in lead actor for a movie that like had was never going to lose best picture. It won best picture.

He was Oscar nominated for playing a titular role in a movie that was never going to lose best picture. Titular role um Liam Neeson, Oscar Schindler. Correct. Jesus Christ. You got there.

Okay. So his 2011 movie taken, hidden, chosen, uh... Bop it, twisted, pull it. Is it the one with Diane Kruger? It's the one with Diane Kruger, right? It's, um...

Um, hold, please. We're like... As you can imagine, I have not seen this movie. It's all like mistaken identity. It does have Diane Kruger. Yeah, it's like... January Jones's third bill. Yeah, like one of them is his wife.

who's not really his wife, and one of them is... Did you see this bullshit? No, I've just seen the trailer. Oh, okay. What game are we playing? IMDB game. What do we guess in the IMDB game?

Identity. No. Name. Name. What is the category of thing we are guessing from? I don't know what you mean. In the IMDB game,

we guess what an actor is... Known, known, no, no, unknown unknown unknown christ in heaven oh my god I knew electrolytes after that okay you've earned this all right

that's it am I done am I done guessing January Jones you're done all right I had a hard one and an easy one and now I don't think the hard one is hard enough so I went into

the filmography of Alex Ross Perry and I wanted to pick an actor out of there one who we haven't done before on the IMDB game and partial because I was like

well this is stupid um it's an actress I love very much one television role three films her name is Mary Louise Parker we love her weeds

yes three movie roles yes I'm actually thinking you are trying to trying to gag me by fried green tomatoes not being there. So I'm going to say red. Yes.

Cool. What was the one everyone was like? Mary Louise Parker is on one in this movie. Semi recently that people were like, what the fuck is Mary Louise Parker? I forget what it is, but it's some bad movie. I'm going to say red too. Fuck you, yes.

Fuck you, I hate you. God, we're going to end our 250th episode with me cursing you the fuck out. With me getting a perfect score on Mary Louise. If you get a perfect score on this, I will genuinely never speak to you ever again. Just so you know. Just so you know. Podcast over, Patriot out the window. We're fucking done.

Um, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, no, I can't stand by that. Try and get a perfect score. Well, it's got to be something. stupid. That's the problem is I shouldn't have warned you that it was stupid. I should have... Oh, oh. I know what this is. I know what this is. I know what it's going to be and I'm going to get

the perfect score that has alluded me for some time. Is it the Spiderwick Chronicles? No. Fuck off. It's not. No perfect score. Damn it. Eat it. Eat your failure. Fine. Then I'm going to get the year and I'm going to say fried green tomatoes. It's not fried green tomatoes. I should have lured you

into a false sense of security. I I made a mistake there. That was tactical. Your year is 2013. If it was going to be the Spider-Rick Conorkels, I would have been so angry on her behalf. But, okay, so 2013. Yeah.

Weeds is over. Yes. Just. Now that's going to really bug me, the one that, whatever the performance was, that people were like, she is bad in that movie. Maybe it's this.

I mean, at that point, she's not really starring an Oscar-y movies, so it's not an Oscar-y movie. Are you asking for clues? Yes. Yeah, I do have to give you clues. You gave me clues. Okay. Not an Oscar movie. Yeah. I don't think it's another, I don't know if she really did action movies besides the Reds. The Reds. That's when they show both of them together in an uncut version.

and you just, like, you buy a ticket and you see the Reds. Yeah. Warren Beatty, um, preemptively rolling in his grave. Uh, okay, so is it, she's not in Ides of March, but I want to say, like, Iads of March, but that's also an Oscar nominee.

Not Iads of March, it is not an Oscar nominee. She's not on the poster. It's an action movie. Okay, so it is an action movie. Yeah. Um. I presume she is the woman or the ex-wife. I'm going to say yes.

I'm going to say you are almost certainly right. She's not in like a stathom. Not a stathom. It's like, it's the actual, the two leads who are the ones on the poster are like actual actors. One of which is less so than the other one, but like, it's not like it's, you know, people who only do like. People who are not known for action movies. Well, one of them is. But, like, you know, when you get it, you'll understand, like me.

Is one of them Channing Tatum? No, but it's somebody who I think wants to be as cool as Channing Tatum, but he's not going to be able to do it. Interesting. Yeah. Noted. So this is probably not a franchise movie either. No, but I think it wanted to be. See, this is where, this was the exact path I was going down because I was going to be like, is it Whitehouse down?

No. It wanted to be a franchise in as much as I think all of it. of these movies kind of want to be a franchise. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know if it was based on any kind of... Yeah, it's based on a comic book. Okay. Is it in time?

No. Justin Timberlake is not an actor. No. The younger of the two stars in this, though, is more of an actor than Justin Timberlake, but it's kind of... I think people sort of feel about the both of them somewhat similarly. Hmm. So, Mm. It's too soon to be Chris Pratt.

Yeah, it's not Chris Pratt. But it's kind of in the same bucket as Chris Pratt. So, like, somebody who did an action movie and is kind of like a schmuck, like, schmuck humor? Yeah, I don't think he's like, it's not one of, I think people would love to, like, have legitimate real life reasons to hate this person, but he's just sort of annoying in his, in his persona. and he's like gotten enough success that people are just like this fucking guy but it's not Dax Shepherd

No but like you're in the right milieu He's just like more But like more famous makes much more money per movie Ooh I feel like if it was like Owen Wilson You would be Jared Butler No I was gonna go with a bounty hunter

No Closer to Dax Shepard Okay In Vi What makes money? Like, yeah, his movies, his biggest hit movies have been, like, big blockbusters. Annoyingly, like, why do so many people like these movies? Ryan fucking Reynolds.

100%, yes. Ryan Reynolds. Okay, so Ryan Reynolds and someone else, Mary Louise Parker is in that movie, 2013. This is pre-Deadpool. This is not. Oh, God, what action movie was he in? He's opposite a much better actor who's slumming it. I'm guessing as a woman.

No, actor. Oh, okay. Male actor. Slumming it. Is this R-I-P-D? It is R-I-P-D, yes. It's even worse than Spider-Wick Chronicles. It's worse than Spider-Wick Chronicles.

It's worse than Red Sparrow, which is the one that you were trying to think of. Absolutely no one is known for R-I-D-D-D. IPD, except for Ryan Reynolds. And it's not on, I guarantee you it's not on Ryan Reynolds is known for, because he's made much more money with other movies. Yes, fucking... Yeah, Ryan Reynolds, don't like him. RIPD.

But, like, you know what I mean? Like, that's, I was describing his vibe correctly. 100%. 100%. You could not have given me better clues. All right. And I also see why you would be, like, podcast over. Dement.

If I got a purpose for that at RIPD. But that's a demented known for for Mary Louise Parker. She deserves so much better. That's like Jonah Hex showing up for Fassbender Fried Green Tomatoes, the client, the West Wing. Angels in America. Come on, people. Fucking come on.

Ridiculous. All right, Joe. Thank you for joining us. 250 episodes. It's been so much fun, and it's going to continue to be so. My friend, I love you. Listeners, we love you. Thank you for sticking with us.

Thank you for all of your enthusiasm for the show. it has not gone unnoticed and we appreciate you very much for this very goofy endeavor that we do with this podcast. We hope that you enjoy the Patreon and support it. And we hope that it makes you happy that it's here finally. Once we figure out where social media is headed, we will be there. We are coming to you from the past as several social medias are fumbling to compete. I would say, in the midst of all of this chaos,

bookmark our Instagram. Like, just keep checking our Instagram. That'll be the more... Our Twitter is also not going anywhere. I think so many people are being like, well, that's it for Twitter. It's over... No, Twitter's...

I think Twitter's going to hang around for a while a little bit. It'll be a zombie, but it will be on that zombie app for a while. Because the thing is, the app itself functions in the way that we want it to. It's just run by the evil. overlord of the moment like. Yes. Yes. Anyway, you can find us. Thank you for your love and support.

Thank you very much. We are hopefully giving it back to you with episodes that you enjoy and if you choose to support the Patreon, we really greatly appreciate it and yes. We will be plugging the Patreon. We'll be plugging our Patreon from now until the foreseeable future. But once again,

if you want to sign up for the This Head Oscar Buzz, turbulent, brilliance, Patreon membership, you can go to patreon.com slash this head Oscar buzz and do so. We'll see you there. Otherwise, you can find us on Tumblr at thisheadoscarbuzz.tumbler.com. You can follow us on Twitter at had underscore Oscar underscore buzz and on Instagram at This Head Oscar buzz. Christopher, where can the listeners find more of you if you should choose to direct them there? You can find me on whatever social apps, including letterboxed, at Chris V-File.

That's F-E-I-L. Yeah, at this point, just keep, I'm going to still be on Twitter for a little bit while, a little while longer. So find me there at Joe Reed, read-spelled R-E-I-D. I'm also on letterboxed as Joe Reed, read-spelled R-E-I-D as well. We would like to thank Kyle Cummings for his fantastic artwork and Dave Gonzalez and Gavin Miebius for their technical guidance. We would also like to thank Taylor Cole for his fantastic new theme song. at the beginning and at the ends of episodes when we decide not to throw in little cheeky little 30-second song drops every once in a while. But otherwise, Taylor Cole, you rule. We love you.

Please remember listeners to rate, like, and review us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Google Play, Stitcher, wherever else you get podcasts. A five-star review in particular really helps us out with Apple Podcasts visibility. So for the 250th time, but certainly not the last, go write something nice about us, won't you? That's all for this week, but we hope you'll be back next week for more buzz. Thank you.