This Had Oscar Buzz - 251 – Love and Mercy (with Taylor Cole!)

Episode Date: August 14, 2023

Are you loving our new original intro music, listeners? We’re joined this week by its composer and our friend Taylor Cole to muse on the genre musical biopic with 2015’s Love and Mercy. The film follows different chapters of Brian Wilson’s life and mental wellness journey, with Paul Dano taking on Wilson’s life as he … Continue reading "251 – Love and Mercy (with Taylor Cole!)"

Oh, oh, wrong house. No, the right house. We want to talk to Marilyn Hack, Millen Hack and French. I'm from Canada water. Dick Pooh. You can report to me your thoughts, your feelings. His thoughts, his feelings. I'm giving you unprecedented access.

He's my legal guardian. He's protecting me. No, he's over-medicating you. Can you swim? Brian will not be able to see you anymore. You can't do that. Dean? Yes, I can.

I have to say to myself five times a day I love you. I don't know. Sometimes I wish I had somebody else to say it, too. Hello, and welcome to the This Had Oscar Buzz podcast, the only podcast that sank Paragon Records. Every week on This Had Oscar Buzz, we'll be talking about a different movie that once upon a time had Lofty Academy Award aspirations, but for some reason or another, it all went wrong. The Oscar hopes died, and we're here. to perform the autopsy. I'm your host, Chris Fyle, and I'm here, as always, with my little surfer girl, Joe Reed. Chris File, God only knows what I'd be without you. Didn't even think of

calling you my little surfer girl when we were recording this on Barbenheimer weekend. This is true. This is true. We're coming to you from a joyful time in the recent past. It was literally in an oasis of just bad news. Because, like, literally, to set the stage, listeners, I saw Oppenheimer and Barbie both in the same day. I saw Oppenheimer in the morning, and then I saw Barbie in the afternoon. And so I text our little group chat with Chris and Katie, heading into Oppenheimer, you know, signing off or whatever. And then I come out to texts of like, Joe's coming out to bad news, man. And it was that challengers had been pushed to April and also problem-y stuff.

Ablamista had been indefinitely delayed. And so it literally was just like my wonderful day of movies. And then in the middle of it was just like, oh, God, this depressing news that had like bad implications for going forward. Hopefully by the time you're listening to this, there is some silver lining of optimism that the entire rest of the film year won't be nothing, won't be a barren wasteland of anything. And then on top of all of this, the first, the literal first trailer,

that I get before Barbie is what? Challenger's. And so I'm literally just like, oh, no, it's so exciting. Can I tell you the first trailer I got at Barbie? We got a like full bizarre trailer package in front of Barbie. The first trailer I had in front of Barbie was Priscilla. Me too. Weird, right?

Very weird. I didn't get Priscilla at all. I think people are being smart and they know that there is a wide range of tastes. You did get a wide range. The other thing about seeing the Challenger's trailer on the big screen is because when you watch a trailer on Twitter or YouTube or whatever, you either don't get the MPA warning screen or you like get it and it's on your small screen so you don't really pay attention. But like when you see it on a big screen, I always pay attention to what it's rated for. And graphic nudity is one of the warnings for challenges. It's going to be Josh O'Connor.

The man has it basically in his contract. at this point that he has to hang pipe in all of his movies. I'm just like, could not be more excited for that movie. Could not be more bummed that I'd have to wait till April. Sitting on pins and needles to see what's going to become of the rest of the fall schedule. Get your shit together movie studios for fuck's sake. Anyway, we have a guest.

We have a guest and I want to bring our guest in because our guest, I think, is about to make a really salient point. Listeners. I'm sorry if my face was indicating that I would. you know and love our new theme music that we love that we're launching in time to our new Patreon as well we will get into it uh we have the composer of our new theme music our friend taylor cole is here yay hello thank you so much for having me i am beyond stoked to be here this is a true honor one of my favorite people one of my um uh reliable trivia buddies who um as I tend to compile trivia for our periodic game nights.

And I come up with something that I think, well, that's just too insane. I can't give that question to everybody. I'll just send it to Taylor. And I'll just be like, I can't give this one to everybody, but here I'm giving it to you. And you will reliably either get it or like know what way of it before realizing it is in a sphere of knowledge that is just completely separate from what I am. But I very much enjoy diving into those things. So thank you, Joe. I appreciate you, Taylor.

Gary, we have family here today. Can't say enough how much I love the new theme music. We've gushed to you about this privately, but now we must do it publicly. It's so rad. It's so fun. I'm so glad you guys like it. And I don't know. I haven't heard this big episode 250 yet.

But I must say, for all the listeners, that Chris and Joe were incredible collaborators on making this theme music. Like, in terms of the feedback they would give on the drafts. of it. It was some of the most helpful and specific musical feedback I've ever gotten, despite being from people who aren't necessarily musicians per se. I really, really enjoyed being able to work with them both on this whole endeavor. And it was, they made it much easier to deliver the goods than maybe some other people could. So thank you. I talk a lot about being a Gen X millennial cuspir, and normally I tend to fall personality-wise towards the Gen X. I but, like, my most millennial trait is I'm so petrified of giving critical feedback ever, ever, ever.

So I always couch it and just like, this is great. Oh, my God. This is so I have this one little thing. It probably is stupid. I don't understand whatever. I'm like, so like you, like, you receiving the feedback in the manner that you do. But, like, but that's the thing is like you being the kind of collaborator to receive feedback in a way that I feel comfortable giving it is like an under. aspect. There was that thing in the other two finale, where Brooke is looking through her

phone, or somewhere in the last season, where she's looking through her phone trying to search for proof that Lance texted publicists to help him. And it's all just like, I'm sorry to be a bitch, but, and it's just like, I know this is probably crazy, but, and it's just like, that's, that resonated, I will say. It's just like this idea of just like, I'm probably being stupid totally disregard this is totally fine um so yeah like underrated collaborative aspect is to calm my neurotic ass about offering feedback that way well but like first of all taylor thank you that's wonderful to hear we're glad that uh it was a wonderful process for you as it was for us but also like part of the reason and i think uh listeners will be discovering

this over the episode um if they have not listened to your show before that like part of the reason we asked you to do it is like you get it you get the show you know the vibe you understand and you are the vibe like yes i i mean i've been a a listener since since day one uh truly over the last five years and this is one of my very favorite podcasts to listen to uh monday afternoons when they generally drop my my day job is as a high school teacher and it is my i do the film club at my school after school on mondays and then when film club ends it is part of my weekly ritual to listen to this had Oscar buzz on my drive home after film club. So it is a wonderful part of my week. So I'm very happy to be here. Well, I was a little worried for a

second that like you would subject film club to us because like we are maybe not children appropriate sometimes. Especially when we're referencing Josh O'Connor full frontal nudity. In the first five minutes of the episode. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm very excited. for this episode. Very excited for this movie that we talked about when I rewatched it this morning. I was like, I love this movie. Oh, me too. Yeah. And it does seem because I usually like

to at least give a scan to the letterbox logs to see what like general perception of like people who might listen to the show think of this movie. I think people are too tough on this movie. Well,

we'll definitely get into that. I want to do our, uh, our Patreon plug before we get into the movie itself. The other thing I was going to say, though, to heap a little bit more praise on Taylor for a second is if you're already, if you're maybe on the fence

about joining the Patreon, you should know that one of the reasons to subscribe is you'll be able to hear the Patreon-specific theme song for this had Oscar Buzz, Turbulent, brilliance, which is specific and new and super fun and funny. Taylor's

version. Yeah, Taylor's version. This had Asker Buzz, parenthesis, Taylor's version. But, Chris, let the listeners know why they should sign up for our Patreon. So, listeners, you know, last week we launched our Patreon. This had Oscar Buzz turbulent brilliance. You should go sign up. If you have not already, we will have episodes waiting for you.

There's only one tier. It's $5, and you will get two bonus episodes every month. Right now, we are planning on launching those on the first and 15th of every month. do we say the first and the 15th or do we say If we haven't it's what's going to be so yes Sure that's what it is now Exclusive news

We'll be doing This is the format for Turbulent Brilliance One of those episodes We'll be doing what we're calling exceptions Movies which fit that this had Oscar buzz mold Of great expectations Disappointing results And movies that got

An Oscar nomination at some point The movies you've been wanting us to do for a while on the main show, we've been saving those for our Patreon for movies that did get an Oscar nomination somewhere. We're talking about movies like nine. Our first up movie is nine. Movies like Charlie's Wilson's War,

the lovely bones across the universe. So sign up for that. We'll put your name as a tomb in the middle of our house this week. Let's flipping it up from last week. And then the second, bonus episode every month, we're going to be doing something a little bit more of a departure of the format, something a little bit more condensed of the type of topics we would normally

talk about on the main episodes. It's going to be doing things like checking in with the current Oscar race. We're going to be talking about actress roundtables exclusively. We might watch an old award show and recap it on that episode. We might do an E.W. Fall Preview on that episode. I wonder if this is falling in line. If this one hasn't launched on the Patreon yet, one of the things we'll be talking about, I went to Magic Mike Live, and it was a transcendent experience. I'll be talking about that on the Patreon. So sign up. We got lots going on there. We're going to be experimenting with the format, but we also want to hear from all of the people that are subscribing there. And, you know, we want to hear what you

you want to hear, and we will be, you know, providing for you whatever you want to hear. Once again, go to Patreon, subscribe to This Had Oscar Buzz Turpulent Brilliance. It's patreon.com slash this had Oscar Buzz. We're going to be doing patron-only polls where you can vote to determine upcoming episodes. We have not signed up for Discord, but trusted believe we are investigating so that we can do it well and not do it poorly, uh, when it launches. But go and sign up. Yes. Co-sign everything that Chris said. Uh, listen to that man. He knows what he's talking about. I don't always sound like it, but I do. Uh, it's going to be fun. We, we hope to, uh, we hope to provide a, uh, fun and

enriching experience. A bang for your five bucks every month. We, we think it'll be more than worth it. So, um, see on the Patreon. Hear you on the Patreon. You'll hear us on the patreon something some direction of transactional yes exactly talking cinema italiano you say yes you sure will um back to our guest hello hello um the uh the topic that we return to with all of our uh first time guests is we want to know your Oscar origin story We want to know how the Academy Awards as a cultural object came into your life. How do you feel about them? Are you as psychotic as us?

Do you, you know, smile politely at us as we spin off into whatever? Where does it come down for you, Taylor? All right. I'll try to give the short version of this story without going out too long. It begins when a friend's mom took me and my friend to a community theater production of the musical Chicago. Right around the time when the movie Chicago was coming out, I enjoyed the production that I saw and then enjoyed the movie quite a bit.

Had a grand old time with it. And then about a year or two, maybe later, when I was in the eighth grade, we were doing like group presentations on aspects of the 1920s. That was sort of our social studies unit. And I wanted to show a clip from the movie Chicago as part of my presentation and my teacher said no and i was trying to figure out justifications as to why and the fact that this movie had won some big award was the like my justification for being like oh we could we this is culture this is valuable uh this is valuable cinema and and that ended up working

uh the very next year uh was the 2003 year lord of the rings return of the king uh which i was very much into lord of the rings at the time those movies came out when i was in you know six seventh, eighth grade, I was primed to just go deep on all the lore and the excitingness of it. The DVD special features were, like, the first time I was really, like, learned about how movies were made and the idea. Like, there were people behind all the different aspects and categories and contributions to the art form. And, of course, when that movie wins everything, it was this sort of, like, validation of my taste.

Like, oh, of course, the Oscars always pick the best thing, and they're always going to pick the thing that is my favorite. and it's this is great giant gold statues to validate my tastes. Who wouldn't want that? Exactly. And they're going to pick, they're going to pick the best thing being everything about that thing except cinematography. Yes. But at that point, the only other best picture nominee I had even seen of those five was Master and Commander, which wins cinematography, a movie I also loved.

So it was all just confirmation bias for me that year and really set a nasty precedent for for everything. Yeah, Crash was lurking only two years later for you after that. Two years later, I, with a different friend, went to go see Good Night and Good Luck and loved that movie. That was easily my favorite movie I had seen that year. And that's a movie that gets a bunch of nominations. And then when it wins nothing, that was my first Oscar heartache.

And was a real nice, you know, wake-up call experience being like, oh, the thing I love isn't always going to win everything. That's such a crucial part of it, though. And I feel like if you can stay on board after that part, that's when you know that, like, you're in, you're in. Because all of a sudden now it's the, it's the agony of defeat along with the ecstasy of victory. And part of it was that same year of Good Night and Good Luck was the one play I was ever in in high school, a production of The Tempest. I invited the entire. I did not play The Tempest.

I did not play the titular role. though I was Ferdinand if anyone cares but I invited the entire cast over to watch the Oscars that year and my parents were like weirdly into this idea they're like Taylor's branching out his social group and yes we're going to support this completely have them all over to our house we'll pay for the pizza

and that was the first like Oscar pool I ever did and the idea of like wanting to impress the other cast members I wanted to like do my research and figure out what was likely to in. So that's where the same year that I, you know, had my first kind of heartache and disappointment was also the same year I really got into the sort of gamification of it all. And the idea of predicting and, you know, kind of trying to read the tea leaves and being surprised by the surprises when they happened. So really that kind of window of 2003 to 2005 was

when I was all in. And then it's just been, you know, been a weirdo about it ever since. We love weirdos about it. We are weirdos about it. So one of us. Yeah. I think that's one of the best origin stories we've ever had. That one's pretty good. Starting with class projects. Yes. We love incorporating.

Literally, like, not even, like, I knew that, like, they were a thing. But the idea of them, like, having meaning or weight or significance was purely out of, I want to show the all that jazz sequence as part of a presentation to my social studies class. The combination of class project, community theater, and gambling is, like, Like, that's a pretty fantastic. What more could one ask for? What more could you ask for in an Oscar origin story? Thank you, Taylor.

Yeah, fantastic. Chris, you had started to talk about love and mercy, and I, and I, present business here, jumped in. Yeah, no, I'm glad. I'm glad you were setting the stage. Get the movie mentioned before 20 minutes into the episode. We're here talking love and mercy. Yeah. Brian Wilson, Brian Wilson biopic, like, yes, but no. Right.

But, like, this is one of the things about, like, I think a lot of what I was seeing when I was just purveying people's perceptions of this movie is they were all just like, eh, biopic. But, like, I think it slightly does something a little different. And that's why I love this movie, is that it. It's, you know, in the last 16 years, we've had two significant spoofs of the musical biopic genre, meaning like the tropes and the bad decisions and the repetitive decisions you can make are all so, you know, kind of ingrained to the point where they're worthy of parody. And love and mercy is one where I watch it and I'm like, oh, this is making kind of all the right decisions. There are so many moments where, like, you can feel the walk hard of the Dewey Cox story version of how this movie could go. And then it does something totally different in ways that I find just totally fascinating. Like, essentially, the reason I picked this movie mostly is because I'm not there does have that one best supporting actress nomination.

For me, I'm not there is the like gold standard of movies about musicians in terms of like it really makes, you know, something interesting. So many of those Todd Haynes movies, he's like, nope, you can't do it because we got the, the elements are just too good, even if the Academy is not going to understand it on a best picture level. Yeah. By two parody movies, you mean walk hard and bohemian rhapsody, right? Those are the two parodies of musical biographies. I mean, I was all in on weird to the Al Yankovic story. Never has there been a movie more made for my sense of humor. Without being the artist I've seen the most times live.

That got so many Emmy nominations. I was so sort of happy about that. You know what? Good for the Roku channel. Yeah. But like if these movies are going to get punted to, you know, streaming in a way where like, I, Roku Channel or not, like, this weird, the Weird Al movie is something that I would have been able to see in a theater 10 years ago. And it's a bummer that I can't right now. And but if that's going to happen, at least like give them their due somewhere. And I'm glad Daniel Radcliffe got nominated because he's. Well, you were if you did get to see it in a theater, right? Well, I did. Because I'm a, you know, a festival. But, you know, most people didn't, yes. I would argue that Elvis is a little, there's such a self-awareness about that movie that, like, even though it ultimately drifts fully towards conventional biopic, like, there's elements of Elvis that I think are borderline musical biopic spoof. Yeah, but they're all in the first 40 minutes of.

Yes, yeah. Well, to the point where almost every Bazelerman movie goes. so far to an extreme that you could say it borders on parody of whatever it's doing. Like, Mulan Rouge is that and Romeo and Juliet is that. And like, it's just that's Baz being

Bass, being Bass, to some extent. Who I love, by the way, will never say an unkind word about Baz Luhrmann, even when discussing his totally not having a facelift at any point in his recent career.

It's funny you bring up Elvis, because my sort of the general rule for me is when it comes to biopics or his movies about real people or events in general but particularly with with things that you would classify as a biopic is that I tend to like these the less time that they cover yeah meaning the more compressed the timeline so for me the part of elvis i kind of vived with the most was that central section on do in the middle the kind of 45 minutes on doing the comeback special sure and to me i'm like yeah again there's a version of elvis that is just a 90-minute movie about him putting on the comeback special.

And I maybe like that more than the movie we got. But for Love and Mercy, you kind of do that twice. I love that it, structurally, it sticks to these kind of two very kind of compressed few-year periods of time. But it kind of weaves between them so wonderfully. I will say about Elvis before we get off of the topic of Elvis, just because I know we can't do 20 minutes on Elvis. But the thing that I even like about the beginning part of that movie is it even condenses the like rags to riches sort of like it. The part where he gets famous gets taken care of in about seven minutes of screen time and he sells it so well. Where it's just sort of like, but even that is just like the, you know, the part where the girl starts screaming for him and whatever. He's just like he's very economical about getting that part, getting to that point in Elvis's career. And I just think.

I think it's... You have Elvis board games before the 30-minute mark. Right, right, exactly. All right, anyway, yes, Chris continue. I think the thing about Love and Mercy is, like, the... Like Taylor was saying, the super conventional version of this movie is so apparent, like, kind of at any point to the movie's favor. Because, like, you know the version of this movie where it's like Brian Wilson is played by the same actor and they age him up or age him down throughout. And they thread these stories much more linearly or, you know, in ways like that.

But I think what's interesting about this, and I think what is really almost moving about the way the movie is structured is in the like Pet Sounds Beach Boys era, you have Paul Dano playing it. It has a very different visual style and he's clearly the protagonist of that and everybody else has a circle around him and it's getting very much. much inside of his psychology and inside of his brain and his experience at that time. But then when you have the late 80s, early 90s portion, Brian Wilson isn't the protagonist of that story. Melinda isn't the protagonist of that story because like Brian Wilson's life is so taken over by Paul Giamatti's character that like he's not even the head of his own story at that point anymore in the literal sense as he was living his life.

And I think that that's just a really smart way to structure the movie. And it's a subtle thing, but I think it's the thing that kind of keeps it from being this standard biopic. But also gets up the subject in a much more interesting way. And you're sort of your raise and your walk the lines. You have the section of the movie where they're really sort of, you know, bottomed out on drugs and bottom out on their career. And then, you know, these movies either the person dies tragically or the last like three minutes of the movie are. some element of recovery and redemption. And the whole Elizabeth Banks section of this movie, that period of Brian Wilson's life

in a conventional biopic is maybe the last five minutes is like meeting Melinda and then coming out. But to me, like, it's such an underserved section in this kind of very stereotypical arc for these music biopics that we're just going to, you know, drill down on something and really give it some more space and find the characters and the peaks and valleys that exist in that even small period of time. To me, that is the unique element of this movie that makes it stand out so much. Well, and you can imagine studio notes for a different movie that turned out differently

where they're like, you know, you don't want to linger too much on the more modern-aid stuff because that's not the stuff that people remember and that's not the stuff that people want to see in a Brian Wilson biopic. And you can imagine a movie where, like, we don't really see things like the dissolution of his first marriage. And we don't see, like, he mentions, he mentions Dennis Wilson's death, but we don't get to see that play out. We don't get to see, you know, how that affected Brian, even though you would imagine that that was like an incredibly dramatic and harrowing portion of his life. And you can imagine a less sort of savvy studio exec being like, you know,

you're throwing drama, you know, out the window here and you're passing up with these opportunities. But you're right in that like that kind of more conventional biopic, you really are going through the motions. It's not like everybody's story is the same, but in those movies, everybody's story feels the same. It's the same sort of rise and fall and bottom out. And even a movie that I like, like Rocket Man, which tries to flourish its way through that as much as possible, still follows that very sort of familiar arc. And it limits my enjoyment of the movie, I think, a little bit.

And for me, like, the music biopic is a movie that is a genre that is something that there's not a ton of them that I really, really love, but I have been consistently fascinated by them because there are these sort of established arcs and tropes and character beats and types of pieces of, you know, dialogue. Like, there's the one in Love and Mercy near the beginning where he literally, he's like floating in the pool and he's like, I'm going to make the greatest album of all time. Right. And then at that point, you're like, oh, is this going to be?

be a different type of movie that it is. Like, that is the one sort of cliche that, like, maybe didn't make it out of the original script. Because there's, there's two credited writers on this. It's Oren Moverman and Michael Allen Lerner. Michael Allen Lerner wrote the sort of original draft of this nearly a decade before it gets made. Has a different title, Heroes and Villains. Bill Pollard scraps that draft completely and then brings in Oren Moverman. I imagine, based on his work with Todd Haynes for I'm Not There. Like, to me, there's a real lovely connection between Moverman was intended to, I think for a while, intended to direct the movie because Bill Polat is more of a producer than a director. He had only directed one movie previous to this.

He's only directed one since. It premiered at Venice, I want to say, last year with the Casey Affleck movie that is supposed to come out. It's in theaters as this episode is dropping. And I haven't even seen a trailer for it. What's it called? It's something in something. Dream and wild. Dream and wild.

I didn't know this. movie existed until I was like doing extra research for this episode. So it was not an on purpose, oh, let's time out the love and mercy episode with the release of Dream and Wild. Right. Right. Exactly. But I think it's, and so from what I had read that Oren Moverman was essentially like to Bill Polad, like you seem to have a more concrete idea of what you want this to be. Why don't you direct it? And it doesn't sound like it was like you directed then. It doesn't sound like it was, you know, contentious or anything like that. But you, you, um, you sort of wonder what the creative process was between these two, uh, or in movement who had directed

the messenger and Rampart. And there was one other one that I, uh, had remembered. But anyway. Time out of mind. The Richard. Yes, that's right. That I only know because it played the one tiff. And I'm like, oh, I don't know. Right. Right. I did watch the, uh, Blu-ray commentary on love and mercy yesterday, which is Bill Pollad and Oren Moverman. And they seem very congenial and collaborative and complementary of one another's contribution. So it does feel like it was a positive partnership and not contentious. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The I'm Not Their connection is interesting too, because there was either a draft or in conceiving of this movie, there was a version that had at least a sequence of the, uh, Brian,

Wilson lives in bed for years. Yeah. Philip Seymour Hoffman, I think, what they wanted to play that version of Brian. Right, right. Well, and they had wanted to make a Brian Wilson biopic as far back as like the late 80s, where it was supposed to star William Hurt and Richard Dreyfus. Now, by that point... Has half the action of this movie even happened yet by that point?

Well, I was going to say the Eugene Landy stuff hadn't really even fully played out yet, and yet I'm like, Richard Dreyfus would have been really good casting for that role. As we get it now, I don't know how that role would have been conceived back in 1988. But, like, Richard Dreyfus as the sort of, you know, untrustworthy, uh, manipulative shrink. In full Bob Rumson mode, yeah. I was going to say it's his what about Bob character, but like more manipulative and more, uh, Dr. Leo Marvin. Dr. Leo Marvin is keeping Brian Wilson, uh, captive for, for years. I could see it.

Oh, I said Bob Rumson. I was thinking American president. Oh, Bob Rumson, I thought you, I, who, what's Bob's name and what about Bob Wiley? Bob Wiley. Bob Wiley. I've seen What About Bob 8 billion times. For movies starring two absolute monsters on set, I fucking love What About Bob. That's how bad Bill Murray is. Richard Dreyfuss comes across better in the What About Bob stories than Bill Murray.

Well, we talked about it. Remember when we did our Mermaids episode and we talked about it? about how Frank Oz sort of keeps backing into these, like, awful onset situations. And, like, that was definitely one of them, where it was just, like, poor Frank Oz on the set of what about Bob dealing with Bill Murray and Richard Dreyfus, who not only are, like, in and of themselves, miserable personalities, but hated each other specifically. So, I don't know, maybe it would have been worse if they didn't. Maybe it would have been worse if they had, like, teamed up against Frank Oz.

But that is her reminder. Frank Oz has been in some real disastrous situation. Yes, he has. There's mermaids. There's Stepford wise. Yes, yes. And none of it seems to be his fault, really? Or like, none of it seems to be him being like a bad actor. He's like sometimes makes ill-conceived decisions, but nothing seems to be like from a place of malice. He just sort of seems to, at least that's my conception. I don't know. Maybe Frank Oz is, you know, pulling wings off of flies and something. I don't know. I do think losing that. middle version of Brian Wilson is way more effective to have just these like bifurcated two halves that like what he has gone through has made him a completely different person for the audience in a literal sense is like it may seem

like an obvious choice but I think this movie pulls it off really elegant eloquent eloquence because it cannot talk today In a really elegant way. And this is perhaps a maybe two on the nose moment in the movie, but I love it nonetheless. It's the scene during the Pet Sounds recording sessions where the one bass player, she's asking, you know, Brian, how does this work musically? You've got two baselines going in two different keys. And that's sort of the movie itself.

It's two melodies and two different keys, but sort of playing simultaneously. Yeah. Paul Dano is so, we'll get to this. on the other side of the plot description. But like, we got to talk about how well cast he is. I'm just not even going to say anything about Paul Dano until we're on the other side. Okay. All right. Good call. Good call.

Let's do the plot description. We are well into this episode. So, um... Taylor, as our guest, you are charged with doing the 60-second plot description for Love and Mercy. Are you ready? I am indeed. I practiced this, and it was under 60 seconds, but we'll see how it goes for real. All right. Then your 60-second plot description of love and mercy starts now.

After a montage of the Beach Boys' early days, we meet Brian Wilson, played by Paul Dano in the mid-60s, beginning a more experimental production on the album Pet Sounds. His father's trepidacious about the musical direction Brian is taking, but he makes the album anyway. When Pet Sounds flops commercially, Brian is urged towards more towards the band's earlier style as mental illness becomes the driving course

in his musical production and personal life. LSD enters the picture, and Brian briefly rebounds with good vibrations, but can complete his next album, collapsing into his more pronounced auditory hallucinations and personal disconnect. In 1985, we meet Cadillac salesperson, Malinda Ledbetter,

who discovers a potential client is an older Brian Wilson, now played by John Cusack, now receiving Lound the crack to treatment for schizoaffective disorder by Dr. Eugene Landy. Brian and Melinda strike up a romance, but Melinda struggles to ever be alone with Brian, learning the true degree of Gene's control, abuse, and exploitation. Once society, she can't be a part of Brian's life anymore, Melinda collaborates with Brian's housekeeper to take out her restraining order against Gene and take Gene out of Brian's well. Years later, a liberated, reconciled Brian finds Melinda on the street and the two reconnected

eventually marrying. These different eras in Brian's life are intercut with each other in a sort of call-in-response editing style, juxtaposing thematically connected moments, leading us to the obligatory text at the end about what happened to everyone afterwards. Boom. With literally one second to go. Damn. Well done.

Well done. You have achieved what Joe and I can never achieve, which is to the entire plot of the movie in 60 seconds. Well, Chris, we did jump to the... Should I get more than 60 seconds? And then I kind of thought to myself, I'm like, wait a second. So I went back and I listened to the beginning of your Cloud Atlas episode. And I'm like, Chris did not take extra time for six plot lines.

So I can do, I can do too. I probably ultimately did take extra time to explain that movie. In our tribute to a unconventional plot structure, we also did the plot description before the boilerplate information for the movie. So we could lay that out. We'll move into the A major section of the plot description. I've blocked all of this out clearly because I was charged with doing the 60s. second plot description of that movie.

Yes. That was also like super early. That was like episode 75 or something. Yeah, it was your listener's choice. So we should probably say love and mercy directed by Bill Polad, written by Orrin Moverman and Michael Allen Learner, as Taylor said, starring John Cusack, Paul Dano, Elizabeth Banks, Paul Giamatti, Bill Camp, a few other people I do want to shout out a little bit later in this podcast, but we'll get to it.

premiered at the Toronto International Film Festival in 2014. It opened limited the following June, June 5th, 2015, and it had kind of a modest, I would say, landing. Early summer movie. It was like June. Yeah, classic early summer movie, which, like, had a little bit of a splash, and then other things splashed. I feel like that was a big summer 2015, I remember being, like, a big,

like summer of box office stories where like Jurassic World happened and everybody was like well we're now back like into Jurassic Park is now you know a big thing that was the year where like Universal

had like six of the top ten movies of the year something like that Furious Seven is that year straight out of Compton was later that summer and like that was such a huge story and yet yeah yeah train wreck was like a hundred million dollar movie solely off

of Amy Schumer yeah um All right. I want to, I feel like we should start with Paul Dano, though, Chris. Yeah. I'm going to, I'm going to cede the floor. Okay. So the Paul Dano stand has entered the chat. Yes. Yes, the Paul Dano stand is taking the throne. Paul Dano, this year with the Fableman's, I was like, oh my God, they Belfasted the dude.

And I didn't even think at the time, they've done it to him twice. They did it to him for this. Granted, he wasn't Globe nominated for Fableman's, and for this, he wasn't SAG nominated. So it's like, it's not like he was truly everywhere, but, like, the man can't catch a break. Yeah. He, I mean, I think this is also the moment that, like,

my Paul Dano standum kind of activated in that, like, this is a great actor who people don't, treat like he's a great actor. And I understand people's reservations for him, at least up to this point, because even things like, you know, prisoners, like prison, prison, honey. I understand people that are like, that's a bad performance. I disagree, but I get it. Even going back to Little Miss Sunshine, where, like, Little Miss Sunshine was a movie that had a lot of success and then a lot of detractors. And I think you saw it when Alan Arkin died recently, where there was this, like, kind of a wave of

re-appreciation for his performance in Little Miss Sunshine because for so many years, partly because he beat Eddie Murphy for the Oscar and Eddie Murphy has so many fans. But a lot of people kind of denigrated that performance

more than they should have. And I think a lot of elements of Little Miss Sunshine sort of suffer that fate because it was a movie that people thought sort of achieved beyond what it should have. I'm a huge Little Miss Sunshine fan

But I think Paul Dano, especially in that movie, because his character is so, you could say, gimmicky, you know what I mean? Where he's like, he's the character who doesn't speak, and then all of a sudden he has the big blowout on the side of the road. And I think Paul Dano then gets sort of caught with that stray, and he kind of suffers for that. I think there were people, I remember at the There Will Be Blood thing, where if there was one element, that like super huge fanboys of There Will Be Blood would admit to being waffling on it was the Paul and Eli Sunday part of the aspect of that movie

even though I think I'm much more I have complicated feelings about There Will Be Blood in general but I think he's great in that movie Yeah He that's the thing People are like he's too big He's too huge and broad

And I'm like he's going face to face with Daniel DeLuis, what are you talking about? What are you talking about? I mean, and that character, Eli, in particular, like, that's what he has to be. He's like a, you know, revivalist preacher. Like, that's sort of the whole point. The final scene of the movie, when he shows up and he's so smarmy and, for lack of a better word, fake, it's like, yes, this is perfect. This is exactly who this person has been the whole time. Well, and if, and if, what's his name? What is Daniel DeLuis's name in that movie?

Daniel. Daniel Plainview. Thank you. If Daniel Plainview is supposed to be the like the crass, ugly face of capitalism in the history of America, then Eli is the crass ugly face of religion in the history of America. And like both their two sides of the same coin. And yeah, I think he's great in that movie. I think he really delivers. But yeah, he's in this interesting mix of like.

small movie, big movie throughout his career, right? Where it's like taking Woodstock. He's in a ton of movies that no one has ever seen. Right. He's in like he's in taking Woodstock. He's in Meeks Cut Off. He's in, is he her husband in Meeks Cut Off? Is he Michelle Williams' husband in Meeks Cut Off?

I don't remember. I need to see that movie again. I haven't seen it since the years. He's in Cowboys and Aliens, though. He's in Looper and 12 years of slave. And you mentioned prisoners, and you're right, like people were really kind of like he was a lot

in prisoners. I guess that that's a movie people don't like, but It's the prequel to his role in the Batman, though. I was going to say I have seen the same people dog on his prisoner's performance and then say that he's incredible in

the Batman. And I'm like, it's basically the same thing. It is. It's more words. I think I had really come around on him, if not already, but certainly Ruby Sparks, which was also directed by Jonathan Dayton and Valerie Ferris, who directed Little Miss Sunshine, but it was written by, is it just Zoe Kazan, or is it Dano and Zoe Kazan together? I think it's just Zoe Kazan. I think it's just

Kazan. Yeah, his partner. But it's a movie that kind of got brushed aside. It's one of those movies that got criticized for the thing it was sending up, at least by people. People who hadn't seen it, people sort of assumed that it was this movie about this manic pixie dream girl movie. And it's like, no, it's a movie criticizing that very concept. And he has a really interesting role where he has to play this protagonist who ultimately, like, you can't sympathize with because he's too selfish. But he also can't be so cartoonishly monstrous. And it's like it's a deceptively difficult thing. And I think he and Zoe both pull it off in that movie quite well.

I think it's a really underrated movie. And so by the time Love and Mercy comes along, I'm pretty, I'm pretty Dano positive, I think, in that way. And he's had, since then, he's only ever played really interesting roles. Really like he hasn't played a conventional role since Love and Mercy, which I think is really. interesting. I can't wait to revisit Swiss Army Man in the wake of everything everywhere all it was. He's great in that movie. I mean, he is. He and Radcliffe are both phenomenal. And that's a movie kind of like all the praises heaped on Radcliffe. Dano feels like he's like brushed aside in terms of conversations about that movie. Yeah. Yeah. Very true. That movie that

fully drives itself off a cliff in the last 10 minutes. I want to watch it again for that, for that reason to see how I feel about that. Because I remember being very popular. positive on that movie back then. And a lot of people were not. But, like, Oakja is totally fucking weird. Obviously, you mentioned the Batman. He's so hot in Oakcha.

Everybody's so hot in Oakja, because fucking Stephen Young is snacky as heck in Oakja. Even Tilda with her braces. Listen, we love it. Tilda with her braces is a genre in and of itself. I mean, Jake

John Hall is literally hot in Oakja because he's sweating for the entire, every scene that he's in. 100%. Is Paul Dano in the Mickey 17 cast? Am I imagining that? I don't think he had, daydreaming that. I thought somebody from Okja,

besides Tilda, was in that movie. So excited for that movie. Yeah, I'm very excited for that movie. He's in a movie coming soon called Space Man. Oh, that's the Adam Sandler movie about like the East Eastern European basketball player. Is that like a Sandler-Sandler movie, or is that like a Sandler's actually acting movie? I think it's like in the same sort of behind the scenes people who did like hustle.

I want to say it's more in the hustle vein because it's basketball related at least. Gotcha, gotcha, gotcha. But like it's a good cast. It's Dano and Carrie Mulligan and of course Isabella Rossellini settling into her playing characters, kindly grandmothers. I am assuming kindly. Maybe she's a maybe she's a Randy, grandmother. Who knows, it's a Sandler movie. She's not a kindly grandmother in everything.

She is Jennifer Lawrence's enemy in commerce. That is true, but that was still a while ago, but yes, that's a decade old at this point, Chris. Isn't that terrifying? No, but I was, when Joy is timeless, what are you talking about? When Isabella Rossellini's voice comes up in the Problemista trailer, where I'm like, oh my God, we've, we've settled into our Isabella Rossellini is just going to narrate things. She's our new Morgan Freeman, and I'm so, It started with Green Pornow, her show. Yes, I was going to say. And then...

About bugs fucking. And then she doesn't narrate Marcel the Shell, but she, like, her voice is so resonant in that movie. I love it. I'm so sad that we have to wait longer for Problemista, too. Fucking fix it. Hollywood assholes. Where else are we? Oh, we should also mention that he...

Wildlife, which he directed in 2018. which that's the one where he and Zoe wrote that script together. Yeah, yes. Oren Moverman, a producer on that movie as well. We got to do wildlife at some point soon, Chris. Boy, boy, boy, it's a wildlife. It's a wildlife boy. Once again, a movie about wildfires called Wildlife.

That you didn't realize was Wild Life, not Wildfire, until we were out of the theater seeing it. We, well, I think I told this story on the podcast, but I'll say it again. So that was the first movie of that Toronto Film Festival. And it's early in the morning. And I maybe didn't get like a super great night's sleep. And so I'm a little like, I'm like, you got to like settle into the rhythm of it. And it's early in the morning. And the theater is dark and I've got my little notebook. And at the beginning of every movie, I sort of like write down the movie. And then I also, oh, that's the other thing is I had, God, this is so dumb. I had tweeted before the movie started. Like, First movie of TIF, Wildlife Send, phone off, into the movie. And then in the movie, I'm like, it's like, it's off to fight wildfires. Wildfires are really becoming a metaphor for this movie. Something, something wildfires.

And I'm like, is this movie called Wildfire and not Wildlife? And I tweeted Wildlife and I'm going to look like an idiot. And like, I'm trying to like look at my notebook where I wrote down the title. And of course, it's dark. And so I'm literally like, Chris, you're probably sitting next to. me watching me going, like, right in front of my eyes, and of course I can't see it. Obsessing about the dumbest possible thing is did I write, did I type the wrong title on Twitter? And of course, no, I get out of there, and it's wildlife because, sure.

Because boy, boy, it's wildlife. Anyway, you did not think it was the film adaptation of the ABC Family Original series, Wildfire. I didn't. Okay. I didn't. Who was in that one? I never watched an episode. I just remember seeing ads for it in 2000.

2005. Fantastic. But yeah, Danos really just has risen and risen and risen in my estimation. I'm excited for dumb money, mostly because it's him. Like, I like the idea of Paul Dano doing a bit. Yes. Yeah.

Which is the appeal of this movie. Aside from, like, when he was a teenager in, like, the girl next door, has he ever done a really broad comedy? like broad broad company I feel like he could like nail it in a way that like people love to you know ride for Philip Seymour Hoffman and along came Polly like I want to see the example

I was about to just say like Paul Dano show up in a movie and do something like that yeah Paul Dano show up in a movie and shit himself I mean we've now we've now demanded it so now it needs to actually happen maybe he'll do it in dumb money he plays a YouTuber It's conceivable. He's so good.

The other thing about him in Love and Mercy is, and this was pointed out a lot in the initial reviews, he looks so much like Brian Wilson. And I wonder if there was ever a conversation, maybe not because Poled and Moverman seemed to be really on the same page about this. But I wonder if they ever got a note from above being like, why not just have Paul Dano play him? throughout the movie because he seems so perfectly cast and I do think he is better than Cusack. I don't think Cusack's bad in this movie but I think Dan are definitely

outshin him. I think Cusk's pretty good in this movie. But he's just perfect. He really should have gotten that Oscar nomination. Watching this a second time now I'm like he's really tremendous. The only thing is I might be tempted. You know I have that weird thing about like bifurcated movies where somebody is

a lead, but they're only in half the movie. He was on my lead actor ballot this year. I was like, okay, so if Paul Dano is not the lead, who is the lead? Elizabeth Banks? Right. To me, I feel like that was probably one of those things we bitch about on the internet, but behind

the scenes, it's a contract thing. Sure, yes. Probably so. John Kusack is contracted to be considered the lead of this movie. Like, because John Kusack is number one on the call sheet, he has to be campaigned as a lead. Probably so. The big thing I remember from this year, 2015, is, like, kind of the big theme of chatter at the time was, like, this is a legendarily weak lead acting year.

And between, like, Dano running supporting and, like, Michael Keaton for Spotlight running supporting. Like, I wonder, could both of them have gotten in in lead and maybe bump out, you know, an Eddie Redmayne or somebody like that. Yeah. Yes. Certainly in terms of, like, what deserved to have happened. Yes. Supporting actor in 2015 was straight up cuckoo bananas, though. Like, that was a real weird year for like a bunch of different reasons.

Like, it's not even just one way that it's weird. It's weird in like four different ways. One of them being that Paul Dano and Michael Shannon for 99 homes show up in almost every lineup. And yet they're both ultimately snubbed. Stallone doesn't show up in every lineup, but shows up in enough of them. One of the most disliked people in Hollywood. Well, that's the thing. He had both this great narrative, this great story, which you know the Oscars love. But on the flip side of that, he had made so many people personally sort of angry at him that it was sort of, and that was the story people always said about Eddie Murphy, too, but why Eddie Murphy didn't win is that like he was an asshole to too many people. And people just didn't like. him and who knows, you know, the extent to which any of these things are true. But Rylentz was sort of the, like, quiet stalking horse where movie people didn't quite

know how much, how big of an awards magnet he was from the theater because he was just sort of this, like, new presence in movies. He had been in movies, of course, but, like, he wasn't as well known unless you were well-versed in the theater. And he sort of just showed up on every lineup. and, like, event didn't win anything until the last possible second and then wins. And then you get your Ruffalo and your Tom Hardy who sort of ride in late on the basis of being in the two big frontrunner films. I like both of them in both of those movies.

I don't know if I would have nominated either one of them. Ruffalo because I think there are like three other people in his own movie who are better than him Hardy because I don't think I liked The Revenant enough to like stretch for a nomination for Hardy.

Can we talk about like for two seconds I have a morbid curiosity to rewatch the Revenant lately? Honestly I kind of don't blame you plus you're more I remember so little of it and I just remember everyone hating it and me being like it's fine. You're more in Yari two

friendly than most people. So I think you would probably benefit from a rewatch more than most people as well. Although I liked Bardo more than I thought I was going to, so maybe I should also see it again. Bardo, a great movie. That was also the year where SAG nominates almost nobody from the Oscar lineup. And not almost nobody. I think nobody, except for, no, they don't nominate Sloan. No, they don't. That's why Idris Alba won. I think, I think, Rylance is maybe the only crossover. Now I want to look at it. I had that up earlier and then I restarted my computer and I forgot to bring it up again.

Hold on one second. Indy Spirits also no crossover with the Oscars for supporting actor that year. Which is odd for them around that period of time especially. Hold on SAG Award for... Oh, God. I need someone to explain to me like I'm five, the new awards tab Algo on IMDB that takes four fucking ever to find what you are looking for.

Everything is, we've said this eight billion times, but IMDB fucking figure shit out. Yeah. Oh, okay, no, SAG was actually the first place where Christian Bale popped up in support. Because I think he was nominated as a lead in comedy at the Globes. So it's Bail and Rylance at SAG, but then it's Idris Elba for Beast of No Nation, who had been nominated in a bunch of those different fields.

He wins. Michael Shannon was nominated for every single thing, for 99 Homes, a movie that I didn't think that many people saw that year. But he was nominated all across the board, and then SAG nominates... This is just the Michael Shannon thing, when he shows up in precursors for... movies. He's not getting Oscar nominated for it. And then he'll pop in for nocturnal animals. It's for like things he maybe got

a mention for somewhere. And then Jacob Trombly for Room is the fifth nominee at Sag that year, which is very sag that year. They tend to they'll give you a Dakota fanning and I am Sam every once in a while. They'll give you a Jacob Trombly in Room. So Christian Bale shows up in lead for Big Short at the Globes. And so does Corell for the Big Short for Globes. That is

wild that both of them are leads in that movie, whereas Danae is supporting for love and mercy. If any movie has no leads, I would say the big short has no leads, because like it's so fragmented. Like it's, you know, it's tough to

say anybody. If anybody it's maybe Gosling for a while, but like I don't know. I would say the same maybe for Spotlight, though I would probably call Michael Keaton the lead of that movie. That's the thing. Certainly, I don't think anybody would have made a fuss if you had called Michael Keaton lead.

Well, the whole third act emotional payoff of that movie hinges on that character's arc, you know? Yeah. Yes. Yeah, Ruffalo, a lot of people didn't love in that movie. I liked him, but, like, if I'm going to nominate a supporting actor from Spotlight, it's going to be either Tucci or Crude Up even. I think Crude Up is. Shriver. So fucking good.

Shriver, too. Yeah, Shriver's great. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Embarrassment of riches. What a good movie. So poor Paul Dano. At that point, you consider Dano a lead in love and mercy than it, like, if this movie has more traction than it, like, at that point, I would have liked the reality where people start, like, riding for Paul Giamati and Bill Camp for best supporting actor nominations, who I think are wonderful, both of them in this movie, as sort of two different sides of a coin of a force in Brian's life through.

Abusive father figure. Yes, exactly. I mean, I think this is, I think there, the table is set for this to be Giamati's year, I will say that. This year, you're talking to 2020. This year, this year we are currently resided. If the holdovers doesn't get pushed back to 2020. Have you both, I think it just came online yesterday, seen the trailer for the holdovers? Yeah.

Yeah. It's got the, the, the, the, Don LaFontaine voiceover to it. Obviously, Don LaFontaine is not with us. It's very retro. I have not heard that in a very long time. It's very retro. I like that. I squealed when the voiceover came on to that.

The focus features retro title card that looks like old Warner Brothers. Even the fonts are very retro. I'm really excited for that movie. And I know that, like, Alexander Payne is a very complicated figure, and we're all going to have to grapple with that. But also, I'm excited for this movie. I run my own. No, obviously, all the respect to your Vulture movie fantasy.

League, but run my own fantasy movie league with like 12 people. Yeah, sorry we like horned in on your action there, too. And I won it the year before the pandemic because I drafted Parasite. Oh, nice. The holdovers is on my lineup for this year. So for that reason alone, I'm hoping for good things for that movie. Nice. Nice.

So, yeah, I'm sad that Dano doesn't get nominated for Love and Mercy. I mean, he doesn't get nominated for this, but I do also think the thing about the lead thing is the thing that always annoys the shit out of me where it's like, well, we don't really consider you the lead of movies, so we're going to consider you a supporting player. And this happens to both, to all genders

with the academy in things of like just the way that they are positioned in the industry. And I think it's so stupid. It has nothing to do with the films are the performances themselves and it's this nebulous thing of like... Do you think part of it...

Do you think part of it is that because he was in movies from when he was a kid that people sort of still look at him as kind of a kid even when he's playing like Steven Spielberg's father? You know what I mean? And he's so

baby-faced as it is and there is certainly a level of misogy. Boy, does he use that to his advantage in love and mercy, though, that baby-facedness. Like the the way that he plays Brian as not necessarily an innocent, but the way that when he's creating music, he sort of seems so childlike.

And so, you know, I mean, those scenes where they're recording pet sounds in particular are, I think, some of the most extraordinary things in any music biopic, because I think it better showcases, like, the joy of a musician at work, particularly when he's, like, not on stage. I feel like so often it's, like,

the joy of being on stage, having the crowd screaming for you, but in this small environment with nine people in a room. Yeah, they never show him on stage in any part of the movie. Yeah, they do. In like the montage. Well, in the montages, but I mean, it's like there's no like concert scenes. No, because he was, I mean, the whole kind of thing of the movie is the rest of the band goes out on the road while he stays back to lay down all the instruments for

pets. I should say, I meant to bring this up at the beginning of the episode, where, what are all of our cultural associations with the Beach Boys in terms of like, I'm fascinated to know with both of you guys, and then I'll say mine. I am a recovering summer camp sleepaway counselor. Okay. And for several years. So the Beach Boys are part of your trauma.

It kind of actually started the things I do enjoy about the memories of that era, is that for whatever reason, there was a few year period where you could, for any of the boys' staff members, you could walk up to a group of them and just say, round, round, get around, and right, everyone else would be there to, like, do terrible improvised harmonies on I Get Around and then jump in to awful improvised Acapella versions of that and Barbara Ann. Oh, my God. And we had to stop when the minions did their Bonina version.

Oh, I thought you were going to say when John McCain ruined that song for everybody forever on the 2008 campaign trail. But for me, there is, like, I for many years loved, like as a kid grew up listening to, the more kind of earlier beachy Beach Boys records, just thought they were fun for running around outside. But this was kind of the movie that turned me around on pet sounds. Like when I first discovered the internet, and I'm like,

what are the greatest music albums of all time? Rolling Stone says Pet Sounds number two. And I listen to Pet Sounds. I'm like, I don't know. This is kind of, I didn't fully didn't get it. And I think after seeing this movie, I went back and listened to Pet Sounds and have such a deeper appreciation for it. as a result, just because I think of the way this movie not only breaks down the process of it,

but gives you some of like the alternate mixes of things where you're hearing, you know, different elements brought out more into the front because you're representing the recording of it. So I was definitely later to come to the, you know, the quote, genius of Brian Wilson, but I've always loved the quote, fun Beach Boys very much. Well, and that's one of the things that this movie gets into really well. For as much as like Mike Love is a villain and we'll get into it. And for as much as Bill Camp as the father is a villain in this. there is voice being given to the idea that like pet sounds was such a departure from the Beach Boy sound and from what people expected out of that and like they as much as any other band of that era or maybe ever had such a defined sound where like the it not even just the harmonies but the sort of just the overall vibe like Beach Boys music sort of sounds like especially that like classic era.

Beach Boys music sounds like nothing else, even though it fits into these genres of like surfer music or, you know, or beach music. But like, it's such a, it's such a singular thing with them. And there is voice in the movie being given to the idea of, you know, you're making this record that sounds like a Brian Wilson record where you are, but it's taking it away from, you know, what the rest of the band had been doing and had been doing pretty successfully. One of my favorite sort of little kind of Dano in the background moments is when Murray, their dad, comes in with his new group, The Sunrays, and is playing that song. And he's like, oh, this guy sounds just like you, Brian, like that, and that way that comment hurts him so much because of everything he's trying to achieve to sound differently is such a great Danae moment. Yeah.

What about you, Chris? Where did you have the beach boys in your life? I mean, like childhood, it was all of that beachy music and none of the more, you know, experimental music that Brian Wilson had more of hand. hand in until literally that rolling stone thing that you mentioned taylor i had that rolling stone amazing top 500 albums of all time issue and like i that hit at the exact right time for me where it's like i'm going and i'm listening to all of these albums that are on this list you know at a very very formative time and that's you know when i was discovering things like pet sounds and then also uh because as you will no doubt expect, I was in high school choir.

And we did a like 15, 20 minute long Beach Boys medley that year after I had discovered like Pet Sounds and Brian Wilson smile and, or maybe not smile at that point. But like, we're doing it. And it's all the beachy stuff. And I'm like, you're not doing any of the good beach. Where's you still believe in me? I know. Well, that's the other thing is from a sort of modern perspective.

And this is a thing that, like, you get into to some degree with the Beatles, although not quite in the same way. You definitely get more people being like, you know, McCartney Beatles is great. You know what I mean? Like a lot of people try to sort of separate that sort of like earlier, sort of like, I want to hold your hand beetles from the more later. And I definitely don't want to get into a Beatles discussion because that is quicksand. But you get a little bit of that thing with the Beach Boys in the same way where it's just like it's the early stuff that's like Boppy, Boppy Boppy, you know, I got a girl. You know, that kind of thing.

But so, you know, so much different than the pet sounds stuff. I, my dad was a big Beach Boys fan. We had a lot of, like, when my dad had all his vinyl before he made the tragic decision to sell it at a yard sale, had his whole vinyl collection and had a bunch of Beach Boy stuff. We would listen to, this is the, like, this is the whole. hokeyest memory and I swear to God that it's true and we didn't grow up in like a Norman Rockwell painting or anything but every year when we would decorate the Christmas tree

my dad would put on the Beach Boys Christmas record and so my favorite Beach Boys album it's got like Little St. Nick and the man with all the toys and all the sort of stuff it's Mariah and the Beach Boys the best albums are the Christmas and Kelly Clarkson. For us it's Mariah

the Beach Boys and the Johnny Mathis Christmas album. Those are the three like Holy Trinity of Johnny Mathis was my mom's favorite and the Beach Boys was my dad favorite. Then Mariah Carey sort of came on a little bit later. But we would be like decorating the Christmas tree, playing the Beach Boys Christmas record, my mom making us hot chocolate. It's like it's the most idyllic thing that I can remember.

But my dad always would be like telling us the sort of like, this is, you know, that's Brian Wilson. He was this musical genius. He spent a whole, you know, year in his bed and, you know, gave us the whole, this is Dennis Wilson. he drowned, you know, at a young age, and, you know, he got involved in Charles Manson. So, like, my dad was giving us sort of, like, the history of all of this as we would sort of grow up with the Beatles. So, or with the Beach Boys, rather.

So we had a lot of, and then through the years, that sort of old-style Beatles became cringy. I do, I don't not blame John Stamos for a lot of this. Like, John Stamos is not not responsible for, like, the Beach Boys being really cringy. I watched all of Full House, and, like, they had, like, he, like, had the Beach Boys on his guests, and he would always be, like, singing Beach Boy songs, and then he went on tour with them, and then, like, all this sort of stuff. And at some point, all that, like, sort of old Beach Boy stuff just became sort of culturally cringy at the same time that the later Beach Boy stuff, the Brian Wilson stuff, became even more culturally revered by the sort of tastemakers. which I think is a really interesting juxtaposition. And maybe this is where we talk about Mike Love. I'm the titular character.

Yeah. I'm not going to shit on this one song because I like this one song. But I do think we can blame a lot of this on Cocoa. Yep. Because you take Kokomo out of the equation. And that I think removes a lot of people's impulses to be snobby about. I think that's probably true.

That breed of Beach Boys song. Which I guess means that... Kocomo does a lot of damage. Just like anti-Aba people get really, like, if they want to shit on Abba, they shit on Fernando. Fernando's a good song, though. Fernando's a great song. But like, people who hate Abba, they hate Abba because of Furnace. The Kokomo era Beach Boys song I stick up for is Sail on Sailor, which is a wonderful

beach boy song that like should have the love that Kokomo has. as. Yeah. Well, we can blame Tom Cruise for the popularity of Kokomo because that was on the cocktail soundtrack later. But so, so Kokomo era, though, it does feel like the kind of like the Mike Love supremacy, right? We're like, that was where he had, you know, taken the reins of the band.

And like, there's so much in terms of the Brian Wilson story that you get in Love and Mercy, that you get around Love and Mercy, this movie doesn't really get into the lawsuits that Mike Love brought against the band later on in terms of getting his writer credits on the early stuff and him sort of... And of course, the movie comes out in 2015 just before Donald Trump runs for president

and sort of the last several years of Mike Love's life have been him growing ever more chummy with Donald Trump playing at Mar-a-Lago. playing for an inauguration thing, yada, yada, yada. Where do we come down with his portrayal in the movie and also sort of him as a greater villain in this whole Brian Wilson story? To me, he's a much more, despite the fact that he's sort of,

you know, the villain to Brian and doesn't sort of understand what Brian is going through, but at the same time, like, no one really at that time, even like mental health professionally. sufficiently fair to him. I totally agree. And I think he and Murray, Bill Camp, I think those two performances are much more kind of, you can understand where they're coming from and sympathize them more so than like the Giamatti performance in the 80s section, even though they're sort of filling similar roles in terms of their relationship to Brian. But as someone who like still likes that early beach boy stuff and had like, like myself had a hard time vibing with pet sounds the first few times I heard it. Like, it is sort of, he is this weird, like, he's mean and you want to feel for Brian, but he does kind of have this sort of, you know, killmonger was right point of view to him.

Well, the band was being taken in a direction away from what he was good at. So you can understand where he was not loving that. No pun intended. The movie also doesn't get into the fact that, like, as Brian was getting into things like, you know, psychedelics and all this sort of stuff, like Dennis was also going in that direction. And the movie doesn't really explore that at all, which is fine. The movie is only doing a certain number of things. But it does sort of put Brian in the space of being like the head of the whole band, that kind of a thing. But I do think the movie is good and smart about how working and living with someone in a mental state such as Brian's is not always easy.

Sure. In a way that I also don't think is unfair to Brian either. Right. Right. And it does that in both sides of the story. And, like, obviously, in the later story, you know, it's manipulated by Landy. But. Well, and you see these things where, like, they're in these sessions, and Brian is sort of geniusing out.

And he's taking three hours to arrange a cello, you know, interlude or whatever. whatever. Right, which ultimately he's right. You know what I mean? Ultimately, it works. But you also see, like, there's the one where he is, you know, ends up having to send all the session musicians home and, like, blows $5,000 of their budget on that and is treating the rest of the band. Like when Mike is like, you're treating the rest of us sort of like your gadgets in, you know, your sort of, I don't. I don't know if he doesn't use the term wall of sound, but it's interesting that Brian talks about how Phil Spector is spying on him and trying to assassinate him or whatever the hell. He's a gangster, which I also think is an interesting way to put it with Phil Spector, because, yeah. Yeah. But you can see, yeah, you can definitely see where the rest of the band is being sort of sidelined for Brian's vision, which Brian's not doing that on purpose.

and sort of disappearing into his own head, you know, essentially for a lot of this stuff. If we, I think the thing we like about the biopic structure in this movie is that it is so lean. If one casualty exists, I think it's his brothers. I think we don't get. And the fact that it is like Melinda's on the phone with Carlin. being like, you know, like, you know, something has to be done. And, like, you never see Carl as an adult. And I think that would have benefited the movie, but also could have detracted from the movie in terms of, like, taking it away from this lean structure that we really like.

So I get why they didn't include it. But it did leave me wanting a little bit more of, like, what did Carl and Dennis think about when this was all happening during this sort of PetSound Zero? We get a little bit of them on the side, but yeah. But yeah, they're almost treated like they're just one character. There's nothing really different about either of them. Right. Although Dennis Wilson played by Kenny Wormald. Kenny Wormold Baby Boy, who was the lead in the Footloose remake and is a tremendous dancer.

It was on the Jennifer Lopez reality show Dance Life on MTV back in the day and is such a good dance. He was on the... He's also credited as the choreographer on Love and Mercy for the Dances in the Opening Montage sequence. Fabulous. I love him. I genuinely love him. I've only seen him a few things. He was in the center stage sequel that was direct to Lifetime around the time of Footloose.

Did not know that existed. Yes, he's the lead in that. And I love him so much. Anyway, he gets the lead in Footloose because Zach Ephron and Chase Crawford both dropped out, which is, I can see where Zach Gaffron would have been better for the movie. I maintain that Kenny Wormald is better than Chase Crawford would have been. A Footloose remake that I tend to stick up for. I held less reverence for the original Footloose, which probably helps me off there, but I like the Footloose remake.

Anyway, we should talk a little bit more about the other part of the, the later section of the movie? Yes, yes, the Cueck and Banks of it all. Because Kusack and Banks are really good in the studio. I know Elizabeth Banks is somebody that annoys a lot of the internet. The worm is really turned on her in the last couple of years, and I'm not sure what the inciting incident was. Because by the time Cocaine Bear came out, everybody was like, oh, Elizabeth Banks, whatever. By the time Charlie's Angels came out, people were like, oh, Elizabeth Banks. Yeah.

I don't know, man. It's like, I mean, I hate to use, like, understands the assignment type of thing, but, like, in performances we like from her, she really does get it. But, like, this does feel the time where, the time where she feels like she's both playing an arc. Like, we love her in small things like Magic Mike Double XL, where it's just like, she shows up for 10 minutes, and she is exactly what the movie needs her to be. For me, she will forever be Lindsay from What Hot American Summer, one of my very favorite movies. But I think, and for me, there's always a little bit of that sort of like detached, just like one level removed from reality elements that she plays in that movie because it is this sort of broad comedy where everybody is slightly one level off from reality. But I think that there's still that on her, I think kind of explains her connection with Brian a little bit more. Like it makes them so great together.

Like if she had the more sort of, you know, like I'm almost like a Sandra Bullock-esque charisma, I don't see her. her and Brian connecting his characters. I think it's a great piece of casting for what I associate with Banks. And I do love how she kind of is, you know, it's not until the last five minutes of the 80s, 90s section that you get a scene without her in it. Like she is fully the protagonist and audience surrogate of that whole chunk of the movie. That scene where she tricks Landy into coming to the dealership to harass her,

She locks the office door. He gets served with the lawsuit, and then she makes the decision ultimately to open the door to sort of face him down and sort of expose what a blowhardy is, that he's huffing and puffing at her door. And then when she opens the door, he won't, you know, he coweres away. Really good scene. She's really good in that. That's sort of, without even having to say anything, she's just sort of staring him down. I'm really like that. There's something to, I think, the performance, but also just the positioning of this story through Melinda's point of view that really, I think, not just like it feels different than a standard musical biopic, but it feels elevated from a lot of the things that we complain about with musical biopics.

I think both how the character is portrayed, but also her performance, keeps it from being the scare quotes, the wife character, or the woman character that you, that are just, never as interesting as I think what she's doing in this movie in like other musical biopics like her her separation as a character from Brian Wilson's past and her sort of like lack of that personal context of the character is such a like a more interesting kind of almost clear-headed way to see into Brian's situation like if this is you know walk the line like an older June Carter doesn't bring that same like new energy into a section in old Johnny Cash's life. Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And I think there's something about, like, this whole portion of the movie is about loving someone who has and continues to have at this point in the story, mental health issues and, you know, figuring out where or if you fit in with that in your connection with this person. there's something about the story of this part of the movie that doesn't even need to be a musical biopic to be interesting. It doesn't need to be about Brian Wilson to hold our interest in like it has its own point and narrative ideas that like it could be fictional and we would still watch this, I think.

And it's so, I think it's wonderful that in whether or not this happened in real life, who knows, Melinda was sort of. of the biggest real-life collaborator in terms of someone who experienced this with the writers and Polad, but that their spark and their initial kind of chemistry and meet cute all takes place before she knows

he's Brian Wilson. Yeah. We should also mention this is the same year that she makes her directorial debut, her feature directorial debut with Pitch Perfect 2. A movie I didn't like

but made pretty good money. Enough money to do a Pitch Perfect 3. It beat Mad Max Fury Road at the box office. They're opening weekends together. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I feel like maybe the pitch perfectness of it is why maybe people dogg on her. People turned on Anna Kendrick for similar reasons. People just turned on pitch perfect and everyone associated. Yeah. Pitch perfect is one of those movies that like, I think if it had stayed one movie, people would remember it much, much better.

I really liked the first pitch of perfect. I didn't think, I didn't. I didn't see the third one at all. I thought the second one, I was like, well, I haven't seen the third. We all know that I have watched every episode of Bumper in Berlin. We're not all caught up on the peacock original. I am not. No, caught up. That cast is so cursed, though. I will stand up for pitch perfect, too, because of Haley Seinfeld's presence and also that song I love. Flashlight, yeah, it's a good one. Haley Steinfeld is currently dating the Buffalo Bill's quarterback, so she's fam now, so she's under my wing of protection. But you look at that, I, like, I have problem with Anna Kendrick. I have no problem with Brittany Snow. As I just said, Haley

Steinfeld is fam. But you look at the rest of that cast, and it's Rebel Wilson, Skyler Aston, Adam Devine, Ben Platt. It's like you could not get a collection of more people who I just, who just bug me. You know what I mean? It's just like they all just bug me for some reason or another. Britney Snow innocent. Britney Snow innocent, Anna Camp innocent. Who is she? Wait, She's married to Skylar Ashton, though, right? She's guilty by association. What did Anna Camp just do that we were like, give Anna Camp more things? I don't know.

I like Anna Camp. Britney Snow was just an X, and she was the only tolerable thing about that movie. Yeah. Britney Snow is great in that movie. And I hated everything else. But that's sort of my thing is as Pitch Perfect goes along, is like, he got away with it once with all those people who tend to bother me. Like, you can't keep going to that well. I'm sorry.

What else? Am I the only one of the three of us who saw Cocaine Bear? I have not. It's not good, but it is, in tandem with Oppenheimer, it is part of the Alden-Aren-Rike comeback project, and I'm very, very happy with that. This is one of the reasons I'm excited for Oppenheimer, because thus far the Alden-Aren-Rike comeback project has underwomen.

evaded you so far that's fine he he he just deserves he's so good in cocaine bear a bad movie and not a bad whatever it's not a good movie i did not hate the time that i spent watching cocaine bear but like i can't in good conscience call it a good movie but alden is very good and fun in that movie anyway um he's never been bad the other person i want to shout out uh in terms of a collaborator in love and mercy is atticus ross working without trent resner for some really great Brian Wilson-esque, but still very much its own thing, original score moments in this movie, particularly when Cusack and Banks, like, jump off the sailboat and come back to do their little shower and hookup, like, just Ross's score on there is just so dreamy and wonderful and perfect for that section of the movie. And the way he's also pulling, if you watch till the end of the credits of Love and Mercy for some of like the soundscapes that he designs to sort of like the moments he gets. at you and Brian's head. They list like every single Beach Boys and Brian Wilson

track that even has like a microsecond of time in it. So it's just a giant like massive laundry list in the credits of list of Beach Boys music that goes into each one of those soundscapes. It's incredible. That's incredible. For like the Oscars that are constantly nominating, you know, because of music design and sound design and like blending in with score preexisting music and then like whatever soundscape the movie has, Oscars love nominating musical biopics and musicals in, like, sound mixing, now just sound. And it's like, this is the one that really kind of deserves it. The soundscape in this movie is incredible.

I think it does a lot to not only sell the Beach Boys music, you mentioned the Atticus Ross stuff, that, you know, is all kind of blending into this thing, but serves so well to get us into Brian Wilson's headspace in psychology. in a way that you don't get the full experience of it at home but I remember seeing this in the theater and being like the sound design of this movie is incredible. The one thing I read about Atticus Ross recently that kind of blew me away

is like sort of famously Nine Inch Nails is a band with only one permanent member, Trent Reznor, but apparently Atticus Ross now is like an official permanent member of nine inch nails like is the only other permanent member of nine inch nails which like i had absolutely no idea about like i don't know that's pretty cool um well chris has been talking uh things that have

you know covered you know oscar's love nominating music films and biopics and sounds so in the musical biopic vein i do have a game prepared for the two of you as i am wants to do it awesome awesome the name of this game is the song not the singer mildly inspired by your beloved alter egos and gently reworked from a long ago Patreon bonus episode of the Great American Pop Culture Quiz Show, this game asks you to identify music biopics from given clues. On your turn, your first clue will take the form, blank sings blank. The first blank is the name of a different character played by the star of a particular music biopic.

The second blank is a song sung by the subject of that musical biopic. You name the movie in question. For example, if I said, Django Freeman sings. Georgia on my mind. You'd know that that movie was Ray. Ray is correct. You understand the format. Guessing correctly after that initial clue will net you. Two points. If you guess wrong or ask for a hint, I can give you another clue in the same format that I think will be much more obviously leading to the answer than the answer. Then it is just one point. So we are being competitive. I do have a tiebreaker if we need it. To determine who will go first. Chris, pick a number

from one to a million? 70,000 and 3. Joe? 70,000 and 2. Joe gets it because the number was 1. So Joe is going to go first. Fucking rapassar. Joe, your first clue.

I think these are all pretty getable. I think there's going to be a high-scoring game. Joe, your first clue, Freddie quell sings cocaine blues. Freddie quell is Waukeen Phoenix in I believe the master So this has got to be walk the line Correct for two points Nice

For Chris Eddie Edwards sings pinball wizard Well Eddie Edwards is I mean pinball wizard is in Tommy and that but that's not really a

biopic but in Tommy Elton John sings oh so is oh no it pinball Wizard is also in Rocket Man this is Terran Edriton. Yes Eddie Edwards is Eddie the Eagle. Because Eddie the Eagle I thought Pinball Wizard

was going to be trickier. Nice job. I would have been fooled. I would have just said Tommy and been wrong. We are back to Joe Ackman Ra sings Who Wants to Live Forever? Oh, my God. Okay. Who Wants to Live Forever is a queen song. Akman Ra, I'm imagining, is Rami Mollock's character in Night of the Museum.

So I'm going to say Bohemian Rhapsody. That is correct. All parts of the answer are there. Very good. Can I just say that I know that that is a queen's song from Catherine McPhee on American Idol? Same. Who wants to live? forever

Who dares to love Forever Oh Not from Booby I didn't know that from Boobie Queen Week on American Idol Season 5 was so good Because we were like

Fuck yeah What is Catherine McPhee gonna do And then she comes out with that And we're like What? All right Let's go check to Chris

Chris, Charlotte Cantalini sings Photos and Recurdos. Okay. That is, this is Selena. It is. Jennifer Lopez. Yes. What's the movie where she plays Charlotte Cantalini?

That is, is that out of sight? It is not. That's Karen Sisko. Your second clue, if you'd missed it, would have been Karen Sisko sings Biddy, Bambom. But Charlotte Cantalini is her character from Monster-in-Law. Brutal that we've never gotten a movie

where Karen Sisko sings Bitty Bum Bambom in character as Karen Cisco Carla Gagino can also have sang Biddy Bambom and it would work for me. All right, it is tied four to four. Everyone's got a perfect score so far. Next, back to Joe Moses sings Roadhouse Blues.

All right, a lot of Moses' is Moses. Moses. Moses. Charlton Heston has been Moses, wait, who's Moses in Exodus Gods and Kings? It's Bail, right? Right. Sings what? Roadhouse Blues. Oh, you know what, though? But it's Val Kilmer, who was in the Prince of Egypt, and it's the Doris. You got it, yes. Woo!

I'm glad that you're all being challenged, but getting them all. I feel like I calibrated the difference. I appreciate it. It's working. It's working. It's working. the ideal games like. All right, Chris, Sir Thomas Sharp sings, Why Don't You Love Me? Oh, this is an actual challenge. Because Sir Thomas Sharp could be anyone, but I do,

it is ringing a very vague, distant bell like when you can hear a tornado siren at noon on a Wednesday. Is that a lyric? Why don't you love me? That is not. not ringing a bell. There is a hint available.

I would like the hint. F. Scott Fitzgerald sings Cold, Cold Heart. Oh, God. We've done this movie. It's Tom Hiddleston and I Saw the Light. Yes. Who's Sir Thomas Sharp? Anybody know? That is... Is it War Horse? It's not War Horse.

A little bit later than War Horse. It's a movie that's not a horror movie, and people are constantly reminding. each other. Crimson Pete. Oh, yes. Yeah. All right.

One point for Chris. Back to Joe. We are now halfway through the game. It is at one point differential. Excellent. Winnie Mandela sings, Take My Hand, precious Lord. Winnie Mandela is Jennifer Hudson.

Take my hand, precious Lord, sounds plausibly Aretha Franklin, so I'm just going to guess respect. Yes. I had never heard of this Winnie Mandela movie. That was going to be more difficult. I'm pretty sure a TIF premiere I went to lifetime. Poor Jennifer Hudson.

So many cursed movies in such a short career. Chris, CIA director Erica Sloan sings, I don't want to lose you. CIA. Okay. So it's a female biopic.

of someone who could conceivably lead the CIA. I don't want to lose you is not familiar, but isn't this Angela Bassett? In? In Mission Impossible, so that would be what's Love got to do with it? That's the job. Yes, you got it. Yeah.

Nice. Why is that not a familiar? I mean, I suppose you're picking the difference. Yes, the second clue would have been. And Stella Payne sings Proud Mary. The second ones are all dead giveaways. All right. Back to Joe.

Satsky Kusakabe sings, you drive me wild. Oh, fuck. Satsky. Kusakabe. Kusakabe sings, you drive me wild. Neither one of these things is ringing about, so I'm going to need a hint. Second clue is Squeaky From sings Cherry Bomb. Yes.

Squeaky Fromm is Dakota Fanning and Cherrybaum is from my beloved The Runaways. Yes, two points to, no, one point to Joe, excuse me, one point to Joe. We should maybe do the runaways. We should. Speaking of Michael Shannon movies that he didn't get nominated for, even though he's fucking awesome. Saski Kusakabe is Dakota Fanning's voice performance in the English dub of My Neighbor Totoro. Okay. Both she and L voice sisters in that movie.

Tim Daly is their hot dad. okay all right we are over to chris ruth fowler sings you ain't woman enough to take my man oh um hmm i love this ruth fowler i feel like i know jo is nodded as though he knows exactly who ruth fowler is because this is you it's definitely a country music biopic it's sissy spaceck and coal miner's daughter Ruth Fowler is in the bedroom. Yes, you got there. Yeah. We are all tied up at nine points of piece.

All right, with nine points a piece, we are tied up into each player's last question. Oh, my God. Joe. Yes. Levy Green sings, it's a man's, man's, man's world. Okay. Well, I'm not sure what movie Levy Green is in,

but it's a man's man's world. man's man's world is James Brown. And if I can remember the title of the movie where Chatterwick Bozeman played James Brown, I would be in good position. It was called

Get On Up. You got it. Get on up. All right. What is Levy Brown? Levy Green is his character in Ma Rainey's Black Bottom. Oh, sure. Sure, sure, sure. Sure, sure, sure. Tate Taylors, Get On Up, a movie I watched for the first time this past week.

It's not bad. I really, I kind of dug it. Did you watch it to make this game? Did you need to feel like you need to... No, I watched it just, I wanted to see a few more musical biopics before discussing Love and Mercy. So I saw that. Man, the dedication you put into this episode as a guest, Taylor. It's humbling.

All right, Chris, you need a two-point answer to tie it up. The pressure. Hamlet sings Look for the Silver Lining. So, cinematic hamlets. You got Laurence Olivier. You got

Ethan Hawke. You've got Kenneth Brana. You've got sort of Steve Coogan. Is there another hamlet that I'm maybe not thinking of? Ethan Hawke, see, born to be blue kind of doesn't count, though I have called that Ethan Hawke's best performance at one point in time. Has Ethan Hawk done another musical biopic?

That seems feasible. Brana, I don't think, has. So it's got to be someone else. What Hamlet am I forgetting? I can't go for, I can't, I can't, I can't go for the hint because you won't win. Yeah. I know. You got to go for it.

What's the song title again? Look for the silver lining. Look for the silver lining from someone who has played Hamlet. And hopefully, oh no, it's, there's Denzel Washington. No, that's Macbeth. I know there's another hamlet that I'm forgetting. Maybe I'm just mixing up Macbeth's. I'm going to...

See, the thing is, if I even get this... Even if I ask for the second clue, I lost and the game is over. You can throw in a guess. Perhaps something you've mentioned. Yeah, I was going to say, perhaps you're overcomplicating. Yeah, why do you, Lord of Bid Blybue is the answer I came up with. Why do you think that doesn't count? Well, because, well, I guess he does sing in the movie, too.

Born to be Blue is not a biopic? Oh, okay. Well, yeah, sure, sure, sure, sure. Like, Hawke himself. Well, a lot of these people don't sing themselves. It's more just like their character does it. Right, right, right. Ethan Hawke in that movie, man.

I'd love Bort Dibu. I was going to, I would have screwed that up because I, I would have said without realizing, not without realizing, without thinking, I would have just said Juliet naked because that was the first thing I could think of with Ethan Hawthie. But that's not a biopic because it's a fictional. Good movie. Fellas, we have arrived in a tie.

So the first person I hear shout out the correct answer will be declared the winner. Okay. Your clue is. I only have one clue. There's no hint on this one. Quasimodo composes di Tzaubhafuta. Amadeus. Amadeus.

Not a show. Beat you to Amadeus. Tom Holtz, voice of Quanzimoto. Well done to Joe, but very, very close for Chris. Well done to Chris as well. Fantastic game, Taylor. Yes, that was wonderful. All right.

What else do we want to say about love and mercy? That's how Goldie Hawn would say this. Love and mercy and mercy. We haven't talked about QSack. It sounds like somebody, who earlier was maybe hinting at they thought he was bad in this movie? I've heard people say that he's, like, if not bad, that, like, markedly inferior to Dano is what I feel like the party line on this movie list. But they have such different tasks, and they're playing such different versions of Brian Wilson. I think QSack is also just not an actor people really love.

Yeah, people are predisposed, myself included, to be like, well, cuckoo bird, John Cusack. Is this the same year of Shire? It's the same year as Shirek. Yep, I was about to bring that up. Right. Okay. And his recent tweet of like, I know someone who got paid one seventh of... John Cusack playing Dumois for a day.

And we're like, your sister, you know someone who you're related to. John Cusack strike tweeting has been tremendous because he also went off on somebody and like called them... Wait, oh, God. Fran Hoffner and I were texting about this. where you called them, like, a mental oyster or something like that. It's just, like, what's, like, insulting this person in the most fantastic level, like, you, you absolute imbecile, you moronic, like, amoeba. It's so funny.

Oh, wait, I can probably just find it because I almost certainly texted it to, Fran, so hold on a second. It's worth waiting for it because, uh, um... Yeah, I like that it's a very different performance than what Dano is doing. It helps, but at the same time, there is, this gentleness to both of them. I don't normally associate John Kusack with gentleness, even when he is doing something like, say anything.

There is a little bit of a, like, a machismo to that, you know, quote, nice guy in Lloyd Dobler. Say what you want about Lloyd Dobler. That's obviously debates to be had. But I really do love the kind of just non, like he's non-threatening in a way that I rarely see John Kusack be in this movie. That is true. I will find this tweet

I would also say it's not easy in the circumstances that this relationship is obviously these are people who did fall in love in their circumstances but I think portraying that in a movie and having chemistry making the audience root for this romance

I don't think that's easy and I do think he does have really good chemistry with Elizabeth Banks in this movie okay I found the tweet It was in response to somebody being, like, rich American actors, you know, want more money and the strike, you had to get it, you know, dumb shit. So he's at quote tweets, and I'm going to censor this for tender ears for at least one word, but not the other one, so maybe earm off time. You dumb, he goes, you dumb, stupid, C word, you absolute fool. Then he's like, dumb socialism is FDR, the New Deal, ever heard of it, you moronic ghoul, you mental oyster, you fucking stupid.

huge. We did band together for the GI Bill, the interstate, whatever, for workers' rights, clean water. Every rate you have, you dumb fucking Gollum. That is like, you know, that is the opening act for Tiffany Pollard talking about Gemma Collins. Oh, 100%. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, he's definitely given his Shirek energy on that tweet. Yes, yes, big time. John Cusack, another, never been nominated for an Oscar person. Some people say because...

This point, certainly not. Not popular. Yeah, probably not. What else? What else? It could have been an original song nominee. It showed up at the Globes and Critics' Choice. This is, of course, the second song played over the end credits.

Right. But, like, this is a whole. horrible original song year, like, to the extent that I think a lot of people are like, yeah, the obvious winner is the weekend for 50 Shades of Grey for like a passable song.

And then, you know, we thought Gaga would win. Ellie Goulding misses an Oscar for 50 Shades of Grey. Yes. Right. Right. Right. Right. Yeah. One day, Ellie Goulding, one day. What were we talking about best song literally yesterday, Chris?

Oh, the two songs from Barbie. right oh yeah no that was this morning it wasn't Jesus Christ it was this morning yeah I they're not three well there's like a million there's yes we were talking about three legitimate Barbie original I think the Ken song is gonna get nominated I would I would be happy if both do us do A Lipa song and Lizzo song we're also yeah the Lizzo song is the one I would love to I don't love the Barbie girl remix Nicki Minaj Ice Spice that's not my save, but... No, I don't think that that would...

I don't think it would qualify anyway. I don't think it would be Lizard Duillipa and the Ken song. What I do think they should do because good luck getting Ryan Gosling to agree to do that on live television. I think, and I can say this, because we're far enough removed, I'm not spoiling the joke for anybody, probably at this point a month after the movies come out. I think the person they should have performed the Ken's song on the Oscar ceremony is Rob Thomas. Yes. Yes. It'd be great.

Please. Please. Oh, God. I want Ryan Gosling to do it. I think he could do it. I think he would do it. I think he's adventurous. Ryan Gosling, I said this in my letterbox review. Ryan Gosling has the, for me, has the, he's such a weirdo. He must protect him at all costs energy that people seem to be affording to Tom Cruise right now, where everybody is like, Tom Cruise can do whatever insane thing he wants, and I'll go show up for it. And I'm like, that's what I'm bringing to Ryan Gosling for the rest of his career. I think Ryan Gosling has more self-aware. about his weirdo stuff than Tom Cruise does. Yes, he does. That's why I feel like... I don't know. I like them both.

Well, yeah, because people in interviews can ask Ryan Gosling about the hey girl thing, but you can't ask Tom Cruise about anything. You certainly can't bring up the time that that person squirted a squirt gun mic in his face in 2005 without Roger Avery pitching a fit on Twitter about it, for God's sake. Jesus Christ.

All right. Should we move into the IMDB game? Sure. Yeah, would you like to explain what the IMDB game is? Yeah, I would. Every week we end our episodes with the IMDB game, where we challenge each other with the name of an actor or actress, and we try to guess the top four titles that IMDB says they are most known for.

If any of those titles are television shows or voice-only performances or non-acting credits, we mention that up front. After two wrong guesses, we get the remaining titles release years as a clue, and if that is not enough, it just becomes a free-for-all of hints. all right taylor as our guest you get not only the choice of giving or guessing first but who you are going to be giving or guessing from slash two uh i will guess first uh to make sure that my guessing is as far away from the end of the episode as possible so people don't remember it uh and i will have chris choose for me and then i will give to joe okay okay So, for you, I have chosen somebody who was in this multitude of supporting actor, Banana's extravaganza in this year.

I chose for you, the indie spirit and SAG winner, who we have never done before, Mr. Idris Elba. Okay. Shockingly, no voice performance. No, no jungle book, no Zootopia. Yeah, the moment of like, can we have Idris Elba play a huge. Human being slash can we also see them. Yes, because it was

Jungle Books, Utopia, and Star Trek Beyond all the same summer. Right. All right. Idrisalba. No television either. No hijack. And no, what is it?

Luther? Or his Netflix DJ show. God. Movies. See, immediately I want to say, well, it's probably Beast of No Nation

because of those awards, but Netflix movies tend to not show up on these things. So I'm going to put a pin in Beast of No Nation, and I'm instead going to guess, I'm blanking. I can think of a bunch of things where he's supporting, but I'm trying to think of some big lead performances.

He's more of a supporting guy most of the time. You know, I'll just say Beast of No Nation. I'm going for it. Correct. Beast of No Nations. Then I, now does Star Trek Beyond pop in there? It's not a voice-only performance. That's a big movie. but instead I'm going to

I'm going to go for it and say Prometheus Incorrect no Prometheus though that's a good guess I will say Molly's game Also incorrect unfortunately Molly's game should kind of be there He's in a huge role in Molly's game He gets the big monologs then

If we judge IMDB game by number of words said in a movie Then like he would definitely be there doesn't he also do a doesn't he do an american dialect in molly's games such as it is he makes his best effort at it he attempts um your years taylor are 2010 2013 and 2017 wow okay 2010 um um um usually 2010 has definitely shown up in the i mdb game before and i think we have regularly been like it's not this movie but it looks like it's this movie so i will give you that hint this isn't smoking aces but you might think it's smoking ace oh yeah yeah i i remember this happening but i can't remember what it is um 2013 is not august osage county even though

that is 2013 um wait is he in augustosage county i mean if he were i assume it would be on his i TV game. It's on everybody's. Right, exactly. 2010 is not blank but blank. It's not smoking aces, but it It has that energy. Yeah. It's like the same, like, I imagine like same poster design and color scheme.

It's not biker boys. It's not smoking aces. It's not there's a bunch of movies that feel like it has this similar vibe. Yeah, and I am weirdly blanking. I'm going to need... I believe it showed up for Zoe Saldon. Oh, oh, the losers? The losers.

The losers. The movie we have all seen in this lifetime. Yes, that's not. Is the losers just on, like, Spike TV all the time? Does Spike TV even still exist? If it does, it only plays the losers. It's like now the Paramount Network. Isn't that what that has now turned into?

To what? To Paramount Network, I think. Like, isn't that just the late, an earlier evolution of that? It would explain why Yellowstone's on there. The Losers cast, though, it's Idris Elba, Zoe Saldania, Jeffrey Dean Morgan, Chris Evans, Columbus Short, Jason Patrick, Holt McElaney, like, it's... Does it have hottest Ken Scott Evans? Not that I see.

You win hottest Ken Scott Evans. You know what I appreciate it. He's a soap guy. Listen, much to my surprise, hottest Ken Scott Evans, iconic One Life to Live Gay, Scott Evans. I'm happy with it. All right, so 2017, and it's not Molly's game. Oh, it is not. Is one of these Mandela Long Walk to Freedom?

It is not also surprisingly. I felt very good about that guess. This is a genre movie that I don't know if it's necessarily seen as a flop, but a disappointment. It is from a director who has since won a, has won best. Picture and best director. You guessed Prometheus. It has very Prometheus vibes. His character, I feel like, has very, his character and Prometheus vibes.

Okay. I enjoyed this movie. It's not in Inari, too. It's not, is it a del Toro? No. Oh, it is. Oh, what? Oh, Pacific Rim, of course.

I think Pacific Rim gets so, like, lumped into, like, transformers and all of that, that people forget that that's a del Toro. Yeah. I didn't, I didn't care for it. If it's not a del Toro, I think it's not as enjoyable as I think it is. Sure. I remember liking it.

But again, that was during the period where, it was a summer during the period where I'm a sleepaway camp counselor and you get three days off per summer and you're in the Northwoods of Minnesota and just being able to go see a movie at all is great. Right, right. So you like everything. Yeah. I was like really high on White House down that.

summer. White House Down, I did enjoy, I will say. And then 2017, that is not... A franchise that people definitely forget, Idriselba is in, which is like, it makes total sense that they would. Oh, is it Thor Ragnarok? Sure is Ragnarok, yeah. Dang.

In fairness, he's in Ragnarok the most of the Marvel movies that he's in. That's true. He kind of has his own little story arc in that one. He's, like, off doing stuff. Considering the fact that he's actually most known for The Wire and Luther at this point, like, it is an odd known for. I was shocked that there was no TV. That's when I knew I was in for a Barn. But that's the IMDB game for you.

Like, TV is often shunted. His known four should be, like, The Wire, Molly's game, Lease of No Nation, and constantly being asked if he's going to be James Bond. Be James Bond. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, true, true, true. All right, so I guess we're going to go backwards. So, Joe, give to me, and then Taylor is going to give to you. Okay, all right.

Christopher, you mentioned, we talked about the Pitch Perfect movies, Elizabeth Banks directing Pitch Perfect, too. I talked about how this actress is dating the Bill's quarterback and is thus fam to me, and so I will now ask you for her known for Ms. Haley Steinfeld, no television. Ah, so no Dickinson, the great Dickinson. True Grit. Yep. Edge of 17. Yep.

Pitch Perfect 2. Nope. Okay. Bumblebee. Yep. No one has ever said the title Bumblebee with as much confidence. Just said it right there. I love Haley Steinfeld so much.

What was her like direct true. grit follow-up. Ooh, I think I know. I haven't looked it up, but I have a good guess. Because I think this is it, but I don't know what

it is. It would make sense that this would be it. Though, I mean, this is going to make me stick up for Pitch Perfect, too, if Bumblebee is there. pitch perfect two isn't because please. Miss Steinfeld

is it pitch perfect three? It's pitch perfect three. So you got it like three and a half out of four. You came real close. Her follow-up to Is it that Romeo and Juliet that she was in? Well, it's sort of three movies in around the same time. It's Romeo and Juliet

begin again where she plays Ruffalo's daughter and then Ender's game. Oh. Which was like the big one. Everyone's bad in Enders game. That's the problem with Ender's game. Well done on Haley's Stam.

You backed up your assertion that you are a Haley Steinfeld super fan, so very good. I am a Haley Stamfeld. Yes. All right. All right, Taylor, what do you have for me? Someone from Love and Mercy, who I think is great in the movie, who we didn't talk about a whole lot, is Bill Camp.

The great Bill Camp, who I recently learned is in Sound of freedom, the freaking Q&on Jim Cavisible movie, and I got really sad for Bill. And Mirosorvino. It's a bummer. But I have not chosen Bill Camp. I have chosen the woman who's married to Bill Camp, Ms. Elizabeth Marvel. Joe, Elizabeth Marvel. No television. No television, no voice work. She's so good in Mrs. Davis. If you guys haven't. I still have to catch us to Mrs. Davis. She's so good. Okay. Elizabeth Marvel. No. television Meyerowitz stories

no and that is why I was loath to guess beasts of no nation because I was like if Meyerowitz isn't for Marvell there's no way yeah yeah one strike Taylor I'm so glad you're doing this to Joe he deserves it so much god fuck up all right Elizabeth Marvel the problem is all the thing well you know what I honestly think true grit is going to be on hers

as well is that your guess yes it is double true grits today. Both playing the same character. Yes. Wow. Which is kind of amazing. Oh, what does she say, too? She says this one really devastating line where she's like,

like, move your hat, trash or something like that. Like, she calls somebody trash. All right. Elizabeth Marvel. Elizabeth Marvel. Oh, Lincoln? Lincoln is correct. where she and Bill Camp

play a married couple That's the thing is all that you're going to get for Elizabeth Marvel if it's movies is going to be stuff like that is she's just got small roles where she like devastates

She's credited as Mrs. Jolly Sure My drag name. Well if that's going to work that I am going to guess one of my favorite Elizabeth Marvel performances which is the Bourne Legacy

Incorrect You have two wrong guesses She and Jeremy Renner beat the shit out of each other in The Born Legacy. It's amazing. She's the only good thing about that movie. Oh, she's so good. What a great scene. Your years are 2017, and what IMDB says is 2019, but I think it was a festival 2019, and a pandemic VOD 2020.

Correct. Okay. All right. I will say the pandemic 2020 movie is one that I was like, this is a good movie. you should watch this. It was a really good performance. I watched it on Halloween this past year. Oh, and I didn't like it?

No, I think you were like, I am not watching this during the pandemic. Oh, God. Oh, I can see that. Because I was going to guess that Betty Gilpin, I got Betty Gilpin on the brain, the Betty Gilpin movie that I wanted to like and didn't. Oh, I've never seen that. I would do one of them. You know what I'm talking about?

The one where she's the hunt. The hunt, yes. This is much smaller than that. Yes. Much smaller than the hunt. Okay. And it's got bad pandemic vibes. Like, it would remind me of politics or would remind me of dying of a disease. It's, no, neither.

Just more like, hey, weird stuff's going on with my body. Okay. All right. Fuck. If it helps you the scale of it, this is an IFC movie. Okay. Okay. But it's not like she. She dies tomorrow, a stressful pandemic movie that I did see.

It's similar levels of, like, dread as she does tomorrow. It's not the one where Haley Bennett eats pushpins. Is it? What's it called? Swallow. Swallow. I really like Swallow. Is she the woman at the end of Swallow?

I believe she's the husband's mom. Oh, she's the, right, right. There's somebody else who's the woman towards the end. Yeah. Yeah, I liked Swallow. Haley Bennett fucking rules in Swelllow. It's stressful as fuck, but yes. What a weird thing to come up on someone's IDB.

Okay, 2017. Is 2017 like a big movie that she's got a small role in? Not exactly. It's not a big movie. It's not a big movie. This is definitely a movie we receive screeners for some reason. It's probably this director's least remembered movie. Great.

Yeah. Super helpful hint, I know. Speaking of hottest Ken Scott Evans. Is in this movie? No. But Chris Evans is. Yes. 2017, director's least remembered movie, Chris Evans.

Is it the one where he and Jenny Slate started dating? Yes. What was that called? Fuck. He's got the daughter. Oh, God, what is it called? It's called, it's a past participle, one-word title. It's a past participle.

Wait, past participle is something with an ED at the end, right? Yes. Okay. It's not like devoted, but it's like something about like, what a good dad. it's um what a good dadded or what a good daughter oh oh oh oh oh oh uh gifted gifted god that would have taken me a year and a day thank you chris for that um i don't remember what role she put who directed that one mark web it's a mark webber right right that's a tough one to yeah and i respect you for bringing such a tough one there and thinking i wouldn't retaliate for you that's why you

wanted to go first. Well done. I had also had as a backup, Timothy Oliphant, but that was somehow harder than Elizabeth Marvel. I feel like we've had Timothy Oliphant, and Timothy Oliphant is, like, stupid difficult. Yeah, like a perfect getaway is not on there, right? No. A perfect getaway fucking rules.

Speaking of my flowered beach shirt, that's a very thematically appropriate to a perfect getaway. Love that movie. we'll find an excuse to watch it there's no way we could watch it for this podcast but I'll force people to watch it was recent remember

in the past like a year I had a cabin weekend and of the like four barely functioning DVDs that were in the cabin that feels right it was like despicable me and like toy story

and a perfect getaway that was your excuse you should have watched it I didn't watch it Chris you disappoint me all right You know who didn't disappoint me was Taylor Cole This episode

Never does Incapable of disappointing This was so, so much fun Thank you so much for having me Oh my God, thank you We really appreciate you coming on We of course love the theme music And

Tell the people where to listen to you Because you have a rad podcast also Thank you, yes You can hear me three weeks per month Wherever you get your podcast Asking people silly pop culture Trivia questions on The Great American Pop Culture Quiz Show.

It is super fun to do. We call for all sorts of very weird formats for music, movie, television, trivia. Come listen to us, The Great American Pop Culture Quiz Show. Hurrah. And you can also listen to more of Taylor's work on our Patreon. Yeah.

Come play with us. The music, Taylor's version. Yes, patreon.com slash this had Oscar buzz. You can listen to our. are what are we calling it? Are we calling it at after show and after our show? We're calling it turbulent brilliance.

That's all you need to know. Come sign up on Patreon, $5 a month. We appreciate your support. This is our gift to you, listeners, and in turn, you give us a little small monthly gift to us. Patreon.com slash this had Oscar buzz. You can also, we will be plugging that on our Twitter, our Instagram, and our Tumblr.

That is our episode. Not threads. No threads, never threads. No, no, we're not going to be on threads because no one is going to be on threads. Because I remember the 1980s. If you remember the 1980s, you have no business being on threads. Sure, sure, sure, sure.

If you want more This Head Oscar Buzz, you can check us out on Tumblr at thisheadoscarbuzz.com. You should also follow us on Twitter. It had underscore Oscar Buzz. And on Instagram at This Head Oscar Buzz, we will be plugging the Patreon on all of those locations. Taylor, tell our lovely. listeners where they can find more of you if you wish to be found. Sure, I'm on Twitter and letterboxed at Taylor's Cole. And Joseph, where can they find you?

Twitter and letterboxed at Joe Reed, read spelled, R-E-I-D. And I am on Twitter and letterbox at Crispy File. That is F-E-I-L. We would like to thank Kyle Cummings for his fantastic artwork and Dave Gonzalez and Gavin Mievous for their technical guidance. please remember to rate, like, and review us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Google Play, Stitcher, wherever else you get those podcasts. Five-star review in particular really helps us out with Apple Podcasts visibility, so not only

our love and mercy what you need tonight, you need to give us a five-star review on Apple Podcasts. That's all for this week, but we hope you'll be back next week for more buzz. There's a tale about Christmas that you've all been told, and a real famous cat all dressed up in red, and he spends the whole year working out in his sled. It's the losing new. It's the losing new. Hello to the Gary's Taylor Cole, the guest on this episode, coming back in to take two extra things.

Thank you to Chris and Joe for dropping in this extra bit of audio with things that I forgot and only realized like a week later. Number one, with regards to my performance on the IMDB game, and noting that 2016 was the year that Idris Elba had the sort of voice or faceless performances in Zootopia and The Jungle Book and Star Trek Beyond, I forgot to mention Finding Dory, a movie that is not good, so I'm glad I forgot it, but he is also a voice as a sea lion in finding Dory that same year 2016. Second of all, when I mentioned the great American pop culture quiz show being a thing

you can listen to and hear more games like the one you heard on this episode, I forgot to mention that the place you should start is our Oscar special from March 22 because that episode features Joe Reed and Chris File. They were wonderful enough to come on the show with Katie Rich from your Thanksgiving episodes here on this had Oscar Buzz. So scroll back to early March of 2022 and check out that Oscar special is a great first place to start for the Great American Pop Culture Quiz Show. Thanks so much.