This Had Oscar Buzz - 258 – Kill Bill – Vol. 2

Episode Date: October 9, 2023

Last week we celebrated the 20th anniversary of Kill Bill – Vol. 1, so naturally we had to bring you Vol. 2 this week! Six months after the release of the original (and its shafting at the Oscars), The Bride returned to finish her vengeance list and kill that Bill. Surprisingly, the finale earned stronger reviews and earned … Continue reading "258 – Kill Bill – Vol. 2"

Oh, oh, wrong house. No, the right house. We want to talk to Marilyn Hack, Maryland Hack and friends. I'm from Canada water. Dick Pooh. The incident that happened at the Two Pines Wedding Chapel that put this whole gory story into motion has since become legend.

No! Man woman. her revenge, and we deserve to die. I've killed a hell of a lot of people to get to this point, and I am going to kill Bill. Hello, and welcome to the This Had Oscar Buzz podcast, the only podcast named Buck, who likes to truck the pussy wagon, get it? Why did Buck have to be a creep when he had such a nice vehicle? He could just say he liked the truck. It ruins a perfectly good catchphrase that we now can't say that catchphrase without being totally creeped out. Anyway, continue. I'm Buck. I like to truck every week on this had Oscar buzz. We talk about a different movie that once upon a time had Lofty Academy Award aspirations. But for some reason or another, it all went wrong. The Oscar hopes died and we're here to perform the autopsy. We are back with a twofer, as it were. But we're going to count us as two episodes, unlike.

Quentin Tarantino, counting his movie as one movie. I am your host, Chris Fyle. I'm here, as always, with my five-point exploding heart technique master, Joe Reed. Pa-pa-pa-pa-pa-pa. Wait, that was four. No, that was five. Pa-pa-pa-pa-pa-pa-pa. Yeah, that's five.

Okay. I got you. Joe's doing the five-point exploding heart technique and being like, wait, did I get all of them? Did I get the fifth one? That would have been me. Neurotic-ass me being like, did I do four or five? Like, I can't remember. And then that's how Bill gets away.

I only give him four. Well, that's how Bill kills you back, but then he walks away and dies. Honestly, Beatrix's kiddo gets a lot of mileage out of this little hand motion here. I'm doing the little, like, goose bill hand motion, because that's also how she gets L's eye out. She just goes, poing! And then, yeah. She definitely does it in volume one at some point. I definitely spent a lot more time this time around.

watching that scene with her and Elle in the trailer, thinking about the physics of how she got Elle's eye out like that. And I was like, I imagine it's just a lot of confidence, where it's like if you have confidence in your ability to make your hand into a tiny little point that can fit into an eye socket, and if you have confidence in your aim to do it quickly, then you just go full force. Because it's like you can't pussyfoot your way around it.

If you're going to go for that eye, you got to go, got to get in there, snatch, and pull it. It is of a different scale and at a different speed of, like, the claw machine. You just got to know what you're doing. You know, you got to know exactly where you're grabbing that teddy bear and putting up. Right, right, right. But that's a lesson for all you kids out there. Eyeball plucking is all about confidence, aim, and speed is what I say. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

All right. Continue. uh listeners we're here back talking about kill bill volume two uh last week we celebrated the 20th anniversary of volume one had a good time and we are back back with 19th anniversary baby uh listen two podcast episodes we're counting them as two separate movies for our purposes yeah 20th at the anniversary, what is time, what are numbers of movies? Tarantino says this is one movie. I think Tarantino is right to consider it for his purposes to be one movie. I would feel like it would feel like a little, it would like, it would be like counting death proof and grindhouse as two separate movies a little bit, right?

Sure, because the Grindhouse version of death proof is much shorter. I don't know if I've ever actually seen the non-grind house. death proof, to be honest. Oh, I've only ever seen them separately. I've never seen them back to back. Oh, you didn't do the grindhouse experience? I didn't. Yeah, they really overestimated how many people that would appeal to because my father and I saw it in basically an empty theater. Wow, okay. Yeah. It was fun. But I, you know, it was fun. It was kind of exhausting. I think for our purposes, though, it's right to consider Kill Bill Volume 1 and Volume 2 separate movies, as did the release calendar and the, you know, the Oscars and all that sort of stuff.

Like, from an end-user perspective, it's definitely two movies. I, like, Tarantino should consider them one movie, but, like, for the rest of us. Have you ever watched them as one movie? I know that it is someone about. No, the whole, what is it? The whole Bloody affair or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I never have.

I feel like, I mean, at some point during... Is it just playing them both back to back, or is there some kind of intercutting that's done? It has to just be. because volume one and volume two are so different. And rewatching volume two this time, I had forgotten how different of movies these are to the point that I was like,

well, they had to have known relatively early in production that they wanted to split these into two. Because while yes, both share elements and tones of this, this movie is so clearly stylized as a western

to me. There's real intentions. in terms of the difference between the two of them. And whether the original vision of Kill Bill was like the first half is going to be very, you know, Japanese influenced and the second half is going to be very Western influenced. I think certainly things were leaned into once the idea came around to split it. Sure.

And like Tarantino is someone who shoots a lot, so it's like he could have molded them further in the editing room. But I also just feel like it's not just, you know, things like setting. It's also just like the structure. of it. The conceit that the bride or Beatrix kiddo doesn't actually kill Bud and L

or it's left up to interpretation, that feels so... I'm going to bring up the idea... I think that's right. And like, I'll bring it up later, but I have thoughts and opinions about L. But, yeah, I think you're right. I think in terms of... I think it's

structure. I think it's the filming style. like the actual vision, which is like, these are decisions that have to be made very early. And, like, Tarantino has always been a director who has thrown a lot of different influences. And, like, this movie, these movies are the apex of his sort of everything that's ever inspired him, everything that's ever influenced him, because it's not like volume one was just samurai movies, right? It was, it was anime, it was black exploitation, it was, you know, a bunch of different things.

You know, Spaghetti Western, that kind of thing. and the second half is obviously a lot more heavily into that sort of Western milieu but there's also like the whole Pi-May section which is just a kung fu movie, right? You know what I mean? And so...

It's a kung-foo movie, but the relationship between Pae Mae and Beatrix feels so much more like a Western of like he's the John Wayne character and she's the young protege. Sure, sure, sure. Just the dynamic.

Right, right. But I think the point you're getting at remains a strong one, which is, at some point, the decision was made to split these into two, and whether, however much retroactive work that Tarantino needed to do, there was some point during this production where it became very intentional to make these movies feel as distinct. as possible, and however he did it, he did it. And rewatching volume two would lead me to believe

that that decision was made earlier in the process than maybe we conventionally accept as true. Sure, sure. Or at least was floated as a possibility to a point where Tarantino is like, I need to build some fail safes in. You know what I mean? Sure. Sure. Or he just made

that much movie. Right. Right. Yeah. That, you know, we still have stuff we haven't seen, maybe. Yeah. Okay, here's what I want to say about volume two. Obviously, we immediately launched into the stylistic ways that they are different, but like, being that they're a part one and part two, they draw a lot of immediate comparisons to each other. And my memory of volume two was that it was the shorter movie.

I remembered being one of those people that at least for a time said that volume two was better, volume two got better reviews, too. And I think... Much better reviews. There's an error of not the movies doing, but I think the way that it was received,

that volume two was more respectable. And I wonder if that subconsciously is because it is the less violent of the two movies. I don't even think it's that subconscious. I don't even think it's that subconscious. But it's not, I think the violence in volume one wasn't just

excessively violent. It was... It's wall to wall basically nonstop. It was the spray of blood that almost disqualified it right from off of the bat

from a lot of people's critical respect and also like Oscar attention. It's just, it was exuberantly violent to the point of like gigglingly violent. You know what I mean?

Well, I would actually say more than that. I think the violence in volume one really runs a whole spectrum from violence that you are outright supposed to laugh at that is super silly towards, you know, very visceral physical towards obviously faked stuff towards, you know, extreme violence that's very emotionally punishing as well. There's a full spectrum of how we're supposed to interpret every single violent act in that movie. that is maybe just more than a lot of viewers were able to process, whereas volume two kind of stays in a lane. There's a way for people, it's a lot easier for some people to look at the violence in volume one and be like, not to use a parlance of our youth these days, but to say that volume one is an unsurious movie, right? And volume two is a serious movie, right?

The violence has gravity to it. Even when she steps on her eyeball, which is the campiest moment of violence in the second part, it's still, you know, it still feels grounded in something that is more the speed of violence that people were used to. And it's a narrower lane of influence. that Tantino is drawing on, that I think it's... And more familiar influences to a lot of critics, I would imagine. The audience doesn't have to work as hard to get on its level, I think. It's interesting that you mention your sort of journey around, like, which one you liked better. I think I initially, as a early 20-something person who wasn't as secure in my own critical opinions,

I kind of went with the flow of being like, oh, well, volume two is really where it becomes the masterpiece. And volume one was raggedy. But volume two, I was like, I really respected it. And then I went the other way after a while and was like, oh, volume one is so clearly the better one. It's the more fun one. It's the one with the most memorable moments.

Like, look at the scoreboard. History has delivered its verdict. Volume 1 has all the parts that people remember. Volume 2, in my mind, became a lot slower, a lot more ponderous, a lot less of a movie. A lot less thematically interesting, I would say, because I was so struck by the various different access points in this rewatch of Volume 1 that Tarantino got at the themes that he's working with and I think Volume 2 is much more

of a straightforward genre exercise but part of that is just by the structure of the story initially it's already just the denouement of one story as it was initially intended but also it's just like this movie is supposed to be so much

about payoff in a certain way that I don't think it has its own ideas. It's even more straightforward in just the order of the list where it's like yes you get the big giant flashback to Pi-May, but it's still like Bud, then L, then Bill, whereas, like, the first one, even just like you get Vernita before you get Oren, and like, that's not how it, but I was, to sort of complete my thought, though, watching volume two this time around, volume one is still

the, I think, my favorite. Volume one, I think is, if I have to declare which one's the better one. But I came away with like my, my respect for volume two really got rehabbed through this viewing of it. It is really, really solidly done and plays with a lot of the mythology that volume one builds up. You know what I mean? Where, you know, Bud getting the jump on Beatrix in a way that nobody else ever had. The way that the confrontation with Bill ends up being such, like, minor key stuff, but in a way that feels very, very interesting. I think I like that the structure once it calms down is so solid.

I think there are moments where you could see, it's more, it's, I guess in volume one, you could be like, well, if this were just one movie, they'd cut the anime part out. the anime part is something I would have hated to cut out. Whereas like you look at this one and you're like, all right, they would have cut out the whole Michael Parks thing and like we wouldn't have missed it. You know what I mean? This, I think volume

two has a lot of extraneous stuff that doesn't really add anything. I know that there's some people that are going to think I'm saying blasphemy. I don't need that much with bud, though if you cut the whole thing at the strip club, it's like

it's richer for having it. It's would have in this story, but it's also just like, I'm not sure that that, I'm not sure the second Michael Park's character, I just don't know if that adds much to it. And especially for this to be the longer sequel. Yeah. And I think it kind of dulls the overall effect of the movie, because there are those little surprise moments, like when Elle gets to be the first character that we hear say the bride's actual name on screen and then you cut to the classroom

for no reason other than just having a little joke. For absolutely no reason. It's so gratuitous. Those things feel further apart and like kind of drag the movie down just a little bit to me. I agree.

I agree with you. Because of the extraneous stuff that I don't really think is adding any texture to the movie. But the stuff that works in volume two really hits like it's so good it's such a good movie Daryl Hannah is so great

David Carradine is so great David Carradine who like Bill gets built up throughout these movies so much like to the point where it's like he's basically a disembodied voice throughout the first one. You forget how little he's in volume one because he's such a major

presence in volume two and well and then like when he finally gets to show up, you know, and it gets to the point, because, you know, there's the surprise that the daughter is still alive, et cetera, and you get to what is going to be their showdown, and he just has reams and reams of dialogue at these, like, ongoing monologue that it's like it feels like it's Tarantino's biggest monologue he's ever done, thrown at David Caratine, and David Caradine kills it. Well, that's the thing is, you, for all that Tarantino has built himself,

into this reputation of this master of action, you know, pastiche cinema or whatever. He gained his reputation as a guy who wrote great conversations, you know what I mean? For as bloody as Reservoir Dogs and Pulp Fiction were, the whole, the hook of those movies was, yeah, but like, it's that Royale with cheese scene, right? It's the waitress scene in reservoir dogs. And so you look at this and you're like, right. Carradine isn't like kung fuing his way through this movie

it's the conversation with the bride outside of the chapel it's the conversation right before they have their little fight and it's a very little fight they don't get out of their chairs but he's so great in those dialogue scenes and you're right it's a lot of dialogue it's a lot placed on his shoulders and he's so great at delivering it

Yeah Yeah I'm excited to get into it Let's put a pin in it And get down to some business Business Joe Yes

Fulture movie Fantasy League Yes we're underway We're earning points We sent out This episode will come out Just as you're getting Or no new newsletter comes out on Tuesday Because there is a holiday on Monday

But we'll be reacting to the second weekend of points earning. Right now, the only points that are earning are box office points, although we did add the Gotham Awards to this year, and the Gotham Awards nominations come out on October 24th of all obscene things. So we'll be getting awards points sooner than you than you think. But right now, it's just box office points. The very first weekend of box Office eligible movies was last weekend. So if you drafted Paw Patrol the Mighty movie, you did take Top Spot at the box office. This season, we sort of streamlined the points, the box office to points structure. So essentially, every time a movie earns a million

dollars, you get another point. So right now, the Paw Patrol movie got 23 points for $23 dollar opening weekend. They won the weekend, so that's another 20 points, so 43 points total for Paw Patrol. Saw X and the creator were the other two movies that were able to earn box office points. There were five people, I should say, in the entire pool who had those three movies on their roster. So those five teams all got the full complement of 75 points. I don't love their chances in the long run with those three movies. moment, all five of you. This is your moment. I much respect to you. It will never come again. Here's the thing, though. I didn't spend a single week in the game last season at number one on the leaderboard at any moment. And maybe if I know that, like, picking a winning slate is probably going to be too hard. Picking a slate that will go number one the first weekend, I can do that. I can pick the three movies that are going to open on opening weekend.

And so credit to these five teams, they've got their moment in the sun. They're, you know, they've got name recognition out there. Maybe they can parlay this into a social media sponsorship or something. Let's reach for the stars here. Get in while the iron is hot. And now, as this episode is dropping, people will be collecting box office points on The Exorcist. Also, your moment is about to go away. Chris, I'm going to give you.

I'm going to give you five minutes. No, five minutes is too. No, I don't even need five minutes. What a while. Do your little happy dance over the Exorcist Believer being as bad as you thought it was going to be? I do feel vindicated. The hater is logging in. I was going to say, have your hater moment.

Have your hater. It must be kept away from all horror franchises for... Do you think, though, that if David Gordon Green were to make, like, a Friday the 13th, which, like, I don't think you can devalue the Friday to 13th franchise? Do you really want to see a Friday the 13th that, like, weekly reaches for, like, prescient themes and tries to be about our times? But then also, like, yes, that's what I want. Accidentally reveals its red state impulses at every single turn. Okay, okay, okay, are you, I've seen this thing bandied about.

I have yet to see Exorcist Believer. Don't. I'm waiting for Exorcist Belieber, where Justin will join this. And I am waiting for Exorcist Beaver, where Jody Foster does her version. I've seen the term anti-abortion. It is an anti-abortion movie. I don't think it means to be, but the logic that it presents it is. And I don't think it means to be feels like a very crucial distinction, though.

Because David Gordon Green does not know what he is doing. Okay. Just like they were like, Yeah, Lori Strode's story is a Me Too story, and it's like, you guys are stupid. You created a survivalist, isolationist. It doesn't know what it's doing, but also there's a lot of other... I thought Exorcist Believer was pretty racist. Oh, boy. I do not expect that to come.

Yeah. And it's also just a very, very incoherent movie. Like, you can tell that they like Frankenstein, some reshoots in there, it's, it doesn't make any sense. And it doesn't especially make any thematic sense. Yeah, yeah, it sucks. All right, you've had your moment. You've had your victory lap around the Exorcist believer. I will say going back to last weekend, though, and I haven't seen, I haven't seen.

seen any of these movies. I've had a, I've had a cold that's kept me incapacitated for a week. Not COVID, say the tests, and I'm forced to believe them. Exorcist Believer, this week was me with my head. We need to exercise. My head on backwards and forced to believe the fact that it's not COVID. Like, okay. Your first movie back to the theater's post-cold is going to be Taylor Swift, the Arest War. I had heard good things about the creator, and so I was a little bit bummed to see it finish a distant third behind Paw Patrol and saw X.

Have you seen the creator? No. Being that it is a movie about robots and Pue Poo Bang Bang, my husband's like, ooh, maybe we should go see that movie. I was like, sure, let's go. See it. I want to hear what you think about. Also, like, Gareth Edwards deserves something.

Sure, sure, sure. I do love Sarah that words, Godzilla. And I love Rogue One, and I think that Rogue One got taken away from him, and I'm sad about that. But anyway, there's a little bit of pessimism there where it's like, oh, like, and, you know, original non-sequel, non-adaptation stuff, like finishing distant third. And I get it. Like, the kids all want to see Paw Patrol. you're not going to take the family to go see the creator and saw acts like the saw movies always make money so like maybe this isn't a reason for pessimism or whatever

but I don't know the search for originality if the movies continues and as far as those box office points are concerned yes in a quote are you ready for it she's coming wait are you talking about Taylor

Taylor did Taylor managed to, is, is, are you ready for it a Taylor Swift phrase now? Instead of just like, it's a Taylor Swift song. The punctuation of the chorus is, I'm ready about it. Like, okay, here's the thing, I don't not like Taylor Swift. I like a lot of Taylor Swift songs. The Taylor Swift phenomenon sometimes where I'm like, have we just seeded very normal things, like the phrase, are you ready for it, like to Taylor Swift?

Have we ceded the concept of friendship bracelets to Taylor Swift, who was, like, not born when friendship bracelets were invented? Like, I don't. Has we, have we, is the concept of having a boyfriend now just like, that's so tailor-coded? Like, it's so, I don't know, I don't know. I don't know. Let the kids have their fun. It's not the kids. Taylor Swift is not somebody who's, like, Gen Z's Taylor Swift.

by like AMC websites crash. I disagree. I think it's adults behaving like kids, but I think it's adults. I think it's adults going to see Taylor Swift. I don't know. You watch the video of those crowds, and it's like women ages 12 to 25.

Taking their daughters to see the person that they like. No, that's not the people that are hoarding these stadiums. That's not, if you show up to an AMC, you're not going to have a bunch of like Debbie May from down the street. like it's it's it's going to be women aging from 12 to 25 that's what you're going to have and now uh kansas city chiefs fans um and uh me i'm just i'm not going to go when it's going to be insane what is your taylor swift viewing plan i need to i need to know you i don't have a plan i don't have you you know life stuff that's going on too so like plans that's true that's

me, you know, setting a firm plan. Sure. But, yeah, I'm going to go. I'm going to go. I'm just not going to go on a Friday night when it's going to be a madhouse. Yeah, that makes sense. That makes sense. However, if I don't say I will be going the second that I can.

We do expect the Taylor Swift concert movie to earn Boku dollars at the box office. With a decent buy, because it was only a five. There's only $5. It probably, should it have been valued more? I don't know. I think the idea was how much value is a movie that is only box office. Like there is, it won't earn a point after box office. It'll learn rotten tomatoes points.

But anyway, we'll see. So anyway, Vulture Fantasy Movie League, as always, you can check out the updates at vulture.com slash movies dash league, where you can see. the leaderboard and get brushed up on the rules. And you can sign up for the newsletter where I will be writing updates on the league all season up through the Oscars, which do seem to be still set for March now that the writer's strike is over, although the actor's strike continues. So who the hell knows? Debates or discussions are negotiations are continuing into next week. We are hopeful.

We are very hopeful. With faded breath and crossed fingers that everyone gets a fair deal. Exactly. As we said, you can check out the awards calendar. The Gotham Awards nominations will be coming on October 24th, because years are only 10 months now, and there you have it. Chris, anything else before we move on to plugging our Patreon? I made my own spreadsheet for tracking my own drafts. Dang. Let me tell you, I am not going to be. be on that leaderboard anytime soon because I think I drafted maybe six movies that open in

December. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. But we'll see. You're hoping for those holiday dollars to float you at the end of the air. All right. Exactly. All right, Chris, talk to our listeners about the Patreon and why, if they are not already signed up, that they should. You really got to do it, listeners. If you are not signed up for our Patreon, this had Oscar Buzz Turbulent Brilliance, you got to do it. It's $5 a month. Patreon.com slash this had Oscar buzz. What are you going to get? You're going to get two bonus episodes a month.

On the first of the month, you're going to get our exception episode. These are episodes that listeners have been asking from us from the beginning of the time. Everything with the makings of it, this had Oscar Buzz movie, but whoops, they got a few Oscar nominations. Most recently, we did the lovely bones, which all of our patrons chose as they're a patron's listeners choice. We'll have more of those in the future, too. More polls. Yeah, we'll be planning some polls and such to do

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time for Buzz Lerman's somehow six-hour miniseries from that movie, but didn't film many new footage what the fuck happens on a Boslerman set um well we'll find out when Hugh Jackman writes his memoir that uh that's what the tell all is is that's what the tell all is yeah um everything that went down on the Australia set um the second uh bonus episode you're going to get every month on the 15th of every month it's going to be what we call an excursion basically a deep dive into this had Oscar buzz adjacent subject matter such as

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this Hadascripah's turbulent brilliance. We are having a great time. killing William Volume Kill William The second I have spent so much of the last day

since re-watching the movie repeating just saying it as Bill Bill shot you in the head the Michael Park's pronunciation of Bill Bill did a bad, bad thing, I feel like.

That's the subtitle to this movie. I guess maybe there's no point in dragging this out. We'll do a plot description, and then we'll jump into the movie, right? All right. Let's run this down. Listeners, now you should listen to this because this concerns you. Kill Bill, Volume 2, written and directed by Quentin Tarantino, starring Uma Thurman, the great Uma Thurman, we'll get back into it.

You will. David Carradine, Gordon Liu, Daryl Hannah, Michael Madsen, Michael Parks. Technically everybody else who was in the first movie. I love that they all, like, get credit. Like, I'm the IMDB. Like, this is on the IMDB for Lucy Lou and Vivica Fox, which is very funny. Yeah. And then briefly, Samuel L. Jackson, maybe as his Pulp Fiction character.

Oh, is that the first? fan theory. Interesting. There's, there's, there's, there's, there's things that he says that tie to that character. So after he retired from the, from the hitman life, he walked the earth like Kane, who he named Checks, who was the character that David Caradine played in Kung Fu, and that he ended up just as a piano player. And that's how he met his end.

That's so sad. Oh, God. Ah, wow. I get into these moments where I, I, I, I get into these moments where I, Almost quote, Nora Ephron non-masterpiece, but I love it, Mix Nuts. And I realize, you can't quote that movie, Christopher. No one knows what you're talking about. This Christmas season, I need to watch Mixed Nuts.

I need to make this the Christmas season when I watch them. You really do. It's such a tradition in my family that only we know this movie. But more people have discovered this movie, and everybody watches it, and they're like, that's a disaster. Why do you watch that movie? Did I ever tell you, I interviewed June Diane Raffiel, once for Grace and Frankie, the first season of Grace and Frankie, or the second season maybe,

and I asked her, I can't remember where this came up, but it was essentially like what movies on streaming do you watch, because it was when I was at my old job. And she mentioned of her own accord, she's like, you know what movie I love is Mixed Nuts? She's like, I'm the only person who loves this movie. So it's you and June Dian, who are the two mixed Nuts fans that I know. J.D. Get at me. We'll... Yeah, come on the show. We'll talk about mixed notes. No, the thing I almost said is, like, Steve Martin does this whole litany of complaints about how his life's awful. And he's like, I'm like Job!

Reed Wilson going, Philip, really? Okay, I'm not like Job. Yeah. Anyway, I only know biblical characters if they're quoted in Nora Ephron movies. I love that, though. I'm sure there's another one we can figure out, but yes. Anyway, Kill Bill, Volume 2, Joseph, you are charged with doing a 60-second plot description of this movie. Do you think you are ready to give one? I am with the caveat that I've been sick all week, so both my breath control and my throat quality aren't great. So if I run out of breath or start coughing in the middle of this thing, please have mercy. I don't know.

We'll see. We'll see how it goes. All right, then. your 60-second plot description for Kill Bill, Volume 2 starts now. All right, first things first, her name is Beatrix Kiddo. Got that, Beatrix Kiddo, in case anybody was worried that Quentin wasn't on a lot of Coke when he wrote this script. After a flashback to the Two Pines Wedding Chapel, where Black and White Bill shows up for a sweet and sad. Little before I have you murdered chat with B, we're back to the list.

Next up, fucking Bud, the sidewinding, bush-wacking, shit-kicking Nepo Baby of the Deadly Vipers. Bud sucks ass, which makes it nice and ironic when he's the one who comes close to taking the bride out, and she ends up buried out alive in the desert and has to summon all the training of her old master Pai May to bust her way out. Meanwhile, thinking he's won. Bud's taken Beatrix's Hanso sword and is selling it to Elle Driver who gets the jump on Bud with a black mamba snake.

Just as Elle's about to leave, though, Beatrix comes in with a flying drop kick and they have a fast and brutal battle inside Bud's trailer. One that ends with Beatrix snatching out, Elle's one remaining eye, leaving her blind and screaming and in close quarters with that black mamba. Finally, it's time for Beatrix to get her to track down Bill, but when she does, she's shaken to learn that her daughter,

Bebe is still alive. After some fucked but kind of sweet family time, and BB goes to bed and it's time for Bee and Bill to have it out. Bill shoots her with a dartful of truth serum and she tells the story of finding out she was pregnant just as fucking Karen was coming to kill her and deciding she had to get out of the assassin life. Bill admits he overreacted by arranging B's murder and the final fight barely gets them out of their backyard patio chairs before Beatrix does the five-point palm exploding heart trick that Pai May taught her and sends Bill five steps into his death. It's all poignant and shit. And in the end, Beatrix cries happy, relieved, grateful tears and then hits the road with Bibi to wherever the road takes her from there on the end. 20 seconds over and you didn't even mention Pimei.

I said Pimei, I said she used her Pai May training to bust her way out of the coffin. What was I going to say? He keeps calling her a, says she brazed like an ass, and they do their little shadow dancing for a while. That was fun. I love Pimei so much in this movie, Gordon Loole. I think Pai May feels like a very crisp file character.

The only thing that volume one is missing is Pai May. Pime is mean. Pimey Slaes. He is essentially He fits in with your whole little I love What's Her Face from Young Adult And what's the Well he's not a protagonist

I do love a problematic protagonist But if Pi Me was a protagonist You'd love Pi Me I would love to watch a Pi Me movie Yeah Pai May I have decided As the only gay character in this movie Here's the

All right Here's the thing I want to It's good that you mention gay We are, I hope I'm not outing you here on a podcast, we're both gay. Is that okay? I'm straight. What? What are you talking about?

Fucker? No, so we're two homos talking about Kill Bill, as is our right. But a lot of, and not to get into like, you know, stereotypes and whatever, a lot of the genres that Quentin Tarantino reference often, and references specifically in this movie, are genres that I didn't watch because they felt like boy genre. You know what I mean? Like, westerns, kung fu movies. I'm not saying that, like, no little gay boys ever watched those.

I've seen a lot of westerns. I don't like a lot of westerns. And, you know, like, Gem and the Holograms. You know what I mean? Like, I wasn't watching. Sure, sure, sure. I watched a lot of westerns as a kid. Okay.

don't like them. I, so as coming from that perspective, though, so you, did you, you, you were not familiar at all with, like, the kung fu movies that Tarantino was referencing in this section. In a broad sense, sure, but, like, I don't, I didn't have any of those individual reference points, you know, beyond, you know, the two examples that any white person would give you. So I'm imagining that somebody who is very well-versed in those movies, like, this must have been like just a Halloween bag full of treats for for those people just like I imagine there's like reference upon reference upon reference from everything from his beard to um that's also the

gayest thing about Pimei is that every three seconds he sort of like fluff's his beard and that's his like signature his signature move right after to punctuate everything he just sort of fluffs his beard um it's like a fan clack you know it is like a fan clack it's it's Pai May's fanclack it's Pimeh, instead of fan clacking and death-dropping, he just sort of strokes his beard and goes like, ha-ha-ha-ha-ha. He rules. He rules. Yeah, he's great. He's great.

We love Pimei. But I just wanted to sort of like get that out there on Front Street because it is interesting when these movies with, you know, that are like, oh, well, that's like heavily camp and whatever. It's like, yeah, I know. I remember watching John Waters movies. Or like, you know, I know. watched, you know, like, whatever, anything that panders to our interests, whereas, like, this is a movie that panders to other people's interests. And I don't know. I mean, both of the Kill Bill movies are populated with women who slay. I mean, that's true. It basically all can, aside from Umma Thurman, obviously, this, this one basically condenses down to Daryl Hannah, but Daryl Hannah is so fun. Darrell Hannah slays for, like, as well as any three people, so. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And, like, Daryl Hannah slays doing a Wikipedia reading of a snake in this movie. That's the other thing. What's the queerest thing about L. Driver is she likes reading Wikipedia entries for fun. But also, like, dictating an entire Wikipedia page on a notebook. We need to bring back those little flip notebooks. The little memo pads? Love them. Love them.

Love it. All right. Before we abandon the conversation, though, about who slays in this movie, Beatrix Kiddo slays, L. Driver, slays. Karen the assassin, slays. Yeah, very funny performance. Does B.B. Slay? No. No, she doesn't.

Canonically, she doesn't. I mean, she's a very believable child, but, like, I don't think she's bad. I'm just saying, you can be good, you can be fine and good. But you don't necessarily slay. May she one day slay? Maybe. She's not on the path to slaying quite yet. I don't think she is going to be an assassin.

Which is good, which is what Beatrix wants. That's the victory of Beatrix kiddo at the end there, is that her daughter's not going to probably grow up to be an assassin. Right, right. Which is like if she grew up with Bill as her father, she would have definitely grown up to be an assassin. Do we think that Beatrix and Beebe grow up in a assassin? a, like, I don't know.

I see the potential for, like, anti-vax parent. Oh. I'm not going there. We're not going there. We're not going there. No, no, no, no. Not true. Not true.

I rebuke what I just said. In the course of this movie, Beatrix does get forcibly injected with at least two needles. So, like, maybe Beatrix is going to have an adverse reaction to injections. So, like, maybe Beatrix is the one person in America. with a good reason to be anti-fax. She's like the survivor contestants that go on to be anti-vax, you know, where it's just like, you just want to live in the dirt. Well, Beatrix doesn't want to live in the dirt because she also tried that, and that didn't

work very well for it. Where do we think Beatrix and BB go, though? Like, I don't see them living in the suburbs. I don't see them, you know. She definitely doesn't feel like she's a suburb parent. No, she's going to live in, like, she's going to live on the outskirts. She's going to be an exurbs kind of a lady, right? They're going to live, because I don't see her as a city gal either, right?

She's going to live, they're going to be sort of isolationist, which is going to make Beebe a weird kid, admittedly. She's going to be homeschooled. Yeah. Yeah. Does the fact that Beatrix, that B has a daughter named B.B. Does that mean that definitely B.B. will have a child named B.B., like, is that going to be, is it just going to keep going on and on?

like that into the future, just endless... I feel like she's a Beatrix the second, though, because, like, Beatrix kiddo, she is the BB kiddo. Like... She could be BJ, Beatrix Jr. I don't like it. I'm glad we won't ever... I don't ever want to know...

I know people were excited about the idea of the Tarantino doing the long later Kill Bill sequel with Nikki, Verneeda's daughter. I don't think I ever want to really get that, mostly because I don't... I don't want it either because I want to know what happens to Beatrix. I want to be able to have these Kill Bill movies exist because it's not just that right there where the opportunity for the mythos of these characters and the story to branch out. You know, it's not just, oh, well, she's going to grow up and kill Beatrix one day.

There's other opportunities for it elsewhere. And I like that this is a movie that splinters in my mind and activates my imagination in that way. outside of the framework of just this narrative. And I think if you get a movie like, I mean, look at what happened with Star Wars. Not that they're going to go and make, you know, a Kill Bill branch off movie every year, like they did with Star Wars.

But it's just like, it doesn't engage your imagination anymore if they keep constantly telling you where the story, like, you know, that was one of the... Although, I will say this. And again, I, I, I stand by my fact that I don't want any further movies. I'm like 60-40 that L. Driver survived.

Okay, let's talk about this. Let's talk about this. This is part of the mythos of this movie. So, first of all, we're going to jump ahead to this because I think it's, I want to go back at some point and talk about the other scenes. But the fight scene with Beatrix and Elle in the trailer is so fucking cool. The choreography on it is amazing. It's good, man. to unsheath her Hansa sword,

and she paid, where she didn't really pay anything for her, but, like, she fronted that she was going to pay a million dollars for, and she can't unsheath it because there's no room in the fucking trailer,

which is fantastic. All the, like, busting through walls, the fact that, like, Elle does a barrel roll over Bud's dead body is so funny to me. It's just incredible stuff.

And all the while, in the back of your mind, you're like, there's a black mama in this fucking trailer. oh please that is omnipresent that is that is the first thing happening in my brain while they're happening and i can't even register moments of every shot because i'm so afraid of snakes and i'm like every shot of beatrix's like bare ankles i'm like girl no like this is a fight for socks

like this is a fight where you should have some like like l's wearing boots like ell is wearing some like steel-toed boots and it's like that's what you got to have to for that but that's also for the reason why I think Elle may have survived, may still be alive. Because, well, we talked about the eyeball snatching, the technique of it at all, of it all. I also love the part where, because that sort of comes out of nowhere where Beatrix was like, hey, Elle, care to remind me, or care to enlighten me on how, and what you said to Pi Mae that made him snatch your eye. And it's like, oh, we're going to do a little bit of a flashback. And then Elle immediately is like, yeah but I killed that motherfucker

and then she's sort of laughing about it and the shot of her face and Daryl Hannah deciding to like oh I can I can camp this up a bit this line reading and she goes That's right I killed your master It's so delicious

It's so fucking good Um punctuated with maybe one of the top three lines of this movie slash both movies Whatever you want to call it You don't have a future So

so good. So good. But so she plucks her eye out and then L. Driver does the you know when like a child, like a toddler child will overact something for like effect or whatever

or like pretend that they're like, oh I'm so like oh I'm sad. Oh I'm whatever. It's just like that's like L Driver getting her eye plucked out is like the most like flailing in the dictionary flailing is overreactive child but at double speed it's so good she's just like she's in every room of that trailer just like oh you bitch oh i'm gonna get you oh my eye oh my god oh my god whatever and you see the snake as as bare ankle beatrix is leaving the trailer and it's sort

of like hisses back at her but it coils up but like there is no, like, there's a decent chance that L is able to get out of that trailer without getting bit by the Black Mamba. Like, there's no guarantee that it's going to go after her. She's certainly not in a great position, but I give her a little bit better than even odds that she can eventually get out of that trailer alive. Why not? And so then you have a fully blind L driver who is going to like...

Driving out of the desert. literally wandering out of the desert with two hands in front of her. She wanders into Asteroid City. Stop. Meets Maya Hawk, and Maya Hawk is like, bitch, you have no future. Steve Carell is like, would you like to buy some vending machine real estate? Best joke in the movie. But yeah, I think in my head canon, El Driver survived and is and is

Yeah, I think she's... Talk about walk the earth. Is walk in the earth just, like, trying to find Beatrix with... A banshee in the night in the desert. Honestly, yes. Yeah. What's a snake? What's a snake that can't see in the daytime?

Like, that's her new viper name. She's no longer a California mountain snake. Amazing scene, though. So, okay, let's... I want to flash back to, though, we don't normally go chronologically through movies. and we just didn't, but this movie is why these movies are almost too good of a fit for us

because we can't be linear about anything. But they're so chaptery, so I want to, like, the opening scene in black and white where we see the bride and Tommy Doyle, what's her name, Arlene? Arlene? Sure, sure.

The random bridesmaids that she has. Okay, this is my thing. So, like, Quentin Tarantino, by this point in his career is in the, like, can cast whoever he wants. Everybody wants to be in a Quentin Tarantanino movie. It's really funny to me that none of these people are anybody. Like, no disrespect to any of the people who played these roles. But, like, it's wild to me that, like, Tommy isn't a name, that all three of these bridesmaids aren't, like, actresses

who, you know, we know. Yeah, that Tommy's not like Matt LeBlanc or something. Right. Right. Like, like, I'm... I'm just, I'm a little fascinated by it as all. It makes the scene more boring, to be honest. Okay, but I think it also makes the scene, like, I think it's, I think it's a lull, right? That, like, sort of, like, dulls your senses for when Bill shows up, play in his little piccolo or whatever. It's a long, several pages of dialogue between the two of them. I feel like this scene would play very differently to me if it was one movie, because,

it would give you this kind of moment of pause that you would almost need in a long epic movie. Yeah, especially after the House of Blue Leaves scene. Yeah, and I think as the opener to a whole separate movie, it is a little draggy to me. As one movie, we don't find out that Beebe is alive at the end of the Blue Leaves fight, right? Like, we don't get that scene with Sophie. right? Because then Bibi becomes like a real surprise. I don't know.

Maybe we do. Maybe we don't. I don't know. I don't know. Anyway, continue. Yeah, I don't know if I have a ton to say about this opening sequence. I mean, I do think... I have a question for you then.

This movie is much more about forming up what the relationship is and the emotion between Bill and Beatrix. Yeah. in a way that we don't understand that relationship in the first movie. At the risk of asking a fan question and not a critics question. Okay. Do you think, in the world of this story, that this conversation with Bill and Beatrix, that if it had gone differently, that Bill had essentially had his mind open enough that he could have called off the assassination

if that interaction had gone differently. If, because my thing in my head is the second she introduced him as her father, and there was no going back, that he was, that, that, that, I mean, I think, I think, no, simply because, like, that's who he is. He is a killer. That's why she got away from him. But don't you think...

There was nothing stopping him massacons. everybody. But don't you think he has that conversation with her at the beginning in the hopes that he could find some glimmer of a reason not to do it? I mean, or no. Am I giving Bill too much credit? Maybe, but I think also it's simultaneously true that he was always going to do it because that's who he is. Sure. And also, that's what the movie is. And like, I get it. Like, I'm not stupid. But like, just in my head, I always think about that part where she introduces him as her father. I'm like, oh, they're, like, he's That is interesting.

But also, you're right. And also, like, they had all, you know, bought their little turtlenecks and whatnot. And, you know, once you go to that step of coordinating out of this. Lucy Lou went to the Bob store. The Gaybox went to the braid store. Right. Bud stopped chewing tobacco for a few days so that he would look.

Bud geled his hair. Can I also say multiple scenes of the worst. grossest scenes of people getting chewing tobacco splashed in their face. And I love that Elle is just, like, gross when that happens to her, when she gets the can of spit. Basically gravy. Of all the gross things that people, all the bodily fluids that end up just on people and whatever in this movie, like, that's the one where I'm like, oh, gross. So there's that great shot where it pulls out through the back of the chapel over the backs of the deadly vipers as they like. And again, they had to choreographed that, right?

Bill's silhouette inside the church. And her yelling, no, Bill, like that. But also, like, those four deadly vipers, not only, like, coordinated outfits, but also, like, learned how to step in unison. They're, like, ready, and we start on the left and go. I imagine that that was, uh, Michael Madsen was not choreographed, uh, ready. So then we hit the Bud section. I love the fact that Bud is like, canonically, empirically, the worst. He's so pathetic.

He's like, he's there because like you mentioned, he's a nepo baby. He's a nepo baby. He's only there because he's, he's Bill's brother. He and Bill have had the falling out. I do like that little sub. runner in this whole series where like everybody bill has ever been associated with ultimately ends up wanting him dead because like he's just such a bastard um and then he's the thing about bud bud is smarter than people realize he's more deceptive than people realize even though he

doesn't have probably the skill set that the rest of them do what's his snake his snake's the side wind winder he takes everybody's shit is the other thing He takes all these moments where you expect, like, oh, God, he's probably going to, like, kick that guy's ass. And it's like, no, he just takes it. The boss at the strip club, he just takes it, he cleans out the shitty toilet, he lets Bill sort of ridicule him, and he lets, and then all of a sudden, it's just like, well, and it's not even like Beatrix, like, took him particularly lightly. She's still, like, snuck around and whatever, but, like, he was the only one who was smart enough to, like, be ready with that shotgunful. full of rock salt also the visceral description of

two barrels full of rock salt buried in your tits the way he says that I was just like you can feel it like the sting of that is so one of the most like distinct movie memories was seeing this movie in a massive theater and the sound design of the the earth hitting the the coffin and

slow descent into that theater going pitch black. Truly something you can't recapture at home. Not to be the corny person being like the theatrical experience, but like truly, that scene is very different in a theater than it is. I refuse to be, I refuse to allow people to make the argument that it's lame to. to talk about the theatrical experience. It's not that it is lame. It's just like you sound lame doing that in this day. That's how they get you, though, Chris.

They get you to stop advocating for what's right by saying you sound like a loser. I who am regularly pontificatory, but am terrified of coming across as pontificatory. I will pontificate as long as with. That's how we got into this mess. Not enough people were willing to sound like a dork. We got our patience for pontification. Yeah. Anyway, the lonely grave of Paula Schultz, I wonder if that's a reference.

I didn't look that up. I should have, whether Paula Schultz is a character and something or other. The headlights flashing on Paula Schultz's skeleton. You can see she makes bunny ears. Get the fuck out of here. Yeah. That's funny. Then we get the flashback into the Pimey stuff, which we talked about.

Pime. queer icon. Honestly, Pi-May queer-coded. Maybe a little bit. Like, he's just there all by himself all that time. Like, why? He doesn't have a wife. You ask your questions. What's going on there? Is Pi-May going to the Eros tour or the Renaissance World Tour? I think he's going Renaissance. Yeah, but that's just because you like Pi-May and you think Beyonce's awesome. Well, I mean, queer. And then she punches her way out of the... I love that scene, too, where she's in the coffin, and, like, you see, like, just how crafty she is in terms of, like, getting her boot off and, like, getting the boot up to her. It feels like the one flourish of this movie that is ridiculous in the way that Volume 1 is ridiculous.

Uh-huh. Uh-huh. That she escapes that coffin. She punches her way out of the coffin. I also love every... By the end of this movie, every little thing she does is visible on her... Like, her bloody knuckles. Her, like, when she shows up to fight with Elle in the trailer, she's sunburned from the walk from the desert, like, that kind of a thing. She's got, like, the dirt's all still in her face.

And it all just sort of, like, accumulates on her. What is Beatrix doing between all of these visits? It feels like she gives herself, like, a week's vacation between each, you know, tour of murder. Well. Which, like, good for her. she's earned it and also I think she's just going

from one place. She's just going from one thing to another because by the time like Bill's already warning Bud about Beatrix having killed O'Ren. You imagine while that's going on is when Beatrix is getting Verneva.

But she gets fucked up from that fight too. She doesn't have like scars on her from going through. a coffee table. That's true. You make a good point there. Still got to wash all those blam-o Cheerios out of her hair.

Beatrix is just doing so much globe-trotting. I can't imagine that she's like going and sitting poolside in like Palm Beach or something or like, you know, go into Miami for a weekend. I feel like she she's going to some cool places that we should be allowed to see.

She's in like Iceland. And she's going to, like, I don't know. Well, if she was able to transfer her miles from her trips to Okinawa and Tokyo into, like, a hotel stay, maybe she did, like, stay at, like, a spa in New Mexico and then just, like, drove to Barstow from there. You know, I feel like she's already using her miles points, though, to go to Japan to kill O'Ren, because she's flying coach. That's true. She's using miles to go there. That's a good point. Also, she mentions in the scene with Michael Parks, who honestly is, like, the worst person in this movie, like, low-key, like, the actual, like, worst human being in this, where we, like, we see the waitress who's, like, face he deformed.

Yeah, yeah. And, like, I don't know. We really don't need that scene. We really don't. Although I do love the part where she just sort of leans back, because he's like, what are you here for? And she leans back, and she's like, Bill. Where's Bill? like that and she's just like motherfucker like we've i don't want to talk to you anymore just tell me

where bill is like i don't like you um i liked that but anyway um wait what was i going to say oh so she mentions that she's like well my pussy wagon broke down on me and i'm like well wait a second she she gets the pussy wagon from buck who likes to fuck she drives it but like oh ren is her first murder, right? She takes it to the airport. Is the Pussy Wagon just in long-term parking at L-A-X for that whole time? I mean, parking rates are not cheap, but I think she can afford it. She's going all around the world.

Clearly, Bill was keeping tabs on Beatrix in the hospital, though. Had to have heard that she had broken out. She goes to Okinawa, or Okinawa to meet Hanzo and then Tokyo. Pussywagon's in long-term at LAX that whole time. Everybody knows she's got the pussy wagon, probably, because Buck's friends are like, our friend is dead. There's only one pussy wagon. Our friend is dead,

and all of a sudden the parking lot at the hospital doesn't have the pussy wagon there anymore. And so she then comes back from Tokyo, gets back into the pussy wagon, drives the pussy wagon out to Pasadena, and kills Vernita, and then somewhere between Pasadena and Barstow, that PussyWagon broke down. Maybe she's like scare quotes broke down.

There's a lot of parking violations and it just caught up to the pussy wagon and she just let it go. What I'm saying is Kill Bill Volume 1.5, the sad tale of the pussy wagon, is maybe where... Beatrix kiddo in traffic court. The only kill bill sequel Midquil, whatever that I will accept is the sad tale of Buck Buck's Pussywagon on the road from Pasadena to Barstow. And what exactly happened to that poor car? It's not a desert vehicle. No. Oh, it would have stuck. Can you imagine driving through the desert and this gleaming pussywag? I guess that's the plot of the telephone video, actually.

Truly. But that can be part of Kill Bill Volume 1.5. Is while, that's right, it's not a in long-term parking at L.A.X. She loans it to Beyonce and Lady Gaga and are like, have fun with this while I'm in Tokyo. And that's what was going on. She sells it to a teenage Stephanie Germanata for $200. But telephone takes place in the middle of Kill Bill, Volume 1, while the bride is in Japan. That's new head cannon just, babe, wake up, new head cannon has just dropped.

We know where the pussy wagon was. We know where the telephone video takes place. I'm galaxy braining the fuck out of this episode right now. This is great. 100%. I'm on Robitussin and Sudafed and my brain is going places. Let's talk about David Carradine. Let's talk about David Carradine.

What a terrific performance? What? Okay, so he's nominated for what? He's nominated for something real this year. The Globe. He's nominated for the Globe. Right. So here's it.

The Golden Globe. are genuinely Lucy Van Peltz in 2004, where they're like, okay, we nominated Ouma in 2003. It didn't happen with the Oscars. Trust us. This year, not only are we nominating Ouma again, we're nominating David Carradine, great and respected actor, classic Quentin Tarantino reclamation project. He did it with Travolta. He did it with Robert Forster.

in this one he's doing it with not only David Caradine but also Darrell Hanna and we'll get to Daryl Hannah, but Caradine seemed like a plausible Robert Forster where nothing else is going to get nominated, maybe it'll be Caradine. Right?

Correct. Like it would have made sense. It would have made sense. We mentioned the Kung Fu connection. That's his big role was he was star of the 1970s TV series Kung Fu, where he played Kane, who is a monk, a sort of like Shaolin monk, walking the earth, as Jules said, in Pulp Fiction, sort of around the American West. And he's also in like Mean Streets and Boxcar Bertha.

Bound for Glory. Bound for Glory. He plays Woody Guthrie and Bound for Glory, which is the Best Picture nominee? Yes. Yes. I think it's the most... No. It's not the most recent

Best Picture nominee that I've never seen, but it's like... It's up there. I forget what mine is at this point. Wait, I want to figure this out. King of Tangents, this had Oscar buzz.

Hold, please. I'm going to pull mine up, too. Academy Award for Best Picture. All right. So clearly, I've seen everything back through the 2000. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. The English patient was my most recent

Until I recently Remed that. We'll edit all this out. No, we won't. Listeners love to hear us going. Listeners, if we kept all of this Dead air in, you better also be pulling up the best picture lineups to figure out

what you're most recent, how many you haven't seen. Yeah. Awakening's web of. Oh, no, Ilpostino was my most recent one, and I caught up to that. Yeah, I was going to say, you watched that recently, right? Yeah. Yeah, it's fine. Il Postino, it's fine.

Yeah, Bound for Glory is my most... No, not Bound for Glory. I'm mistaking Bound for Glory with Hope and Glory. Hope and Glory is the 1987 nominee for Best Picture, the John Borman movie. When was Bound for Glory? Which I think is also mine. That's so funny. Do we have to do a bonus episode where we will...

watch Hope and Glory? Bought for Glory, though, also a best picture nominee, but that was 1976. So I was right about that that it was a best picture nominee, but I was wrong that it was my most recent. It is hope and glory. Hope and glory is also my most recent I haven't seen. Which looks like from the poster that it's like Belfastie. Yes. Right? Little kid in short pants in wartime, something or other. After that, it looks like a soldier's story is the next one for me Oh yeah Maybe let's see

No because I still have to see the last emperor Oh Yeah so there we go Good movie Anyway yeah we should We should watch hope and glory For an excursion sometime Just because

Just because Hope and glory And I have always wanted to watch the whales of August With you for something or other Just because Why It's the same year Because it's fucking old-ass ladies.

It's ladies in lavender, but with, like, Lillian Gish and Betty Davis. Why wouldn't we do that? It's the same year. I just didn't know why you prescribed it to me. Because you're my favorite old-ass lady. I don't know. That's true. It's us seaside when we're 80.

It's so us-coded. Yeah. Anyway, back to Bill. Right. Back to Bill. Bill, shut you in the head. David Carradine is so good in this movie. I feel like you mentioned it's like the

Tarantino Rehabilitation Project which always feels like he's doing it for someone Even if it doesn't necessarily feel like they need Rehabilitated, they just need the kickstart Of like put this person in a major role again Like he did with Kurt Russell I was just about to say Kurt Russell Yes, that's exactly what I was about to say

Yeah, yeah This feels like The biggest version of that besides maybe Travolta. But even so, I don't think Travolta gets to do these, like, this massive monologue type of showcase. And, like, these movies hinge on David Caradine's screen persona. And, like... He's got such a great voice.

Yeah. Like, it's so... Like, you could... It's that, you know, cliche about listening to him read the phone book. But... Such a relax. screen presence, who's also very enigmatic and charming. And so he can project menace without raising his voice and without, you know, really even

like cranking up anything like sinister. It's just very plain spoken. It's very, it's the phone call he has with Elle when Elle's in the hospital, and he's like that would be beneath us. And you can tell he's sort of like he is intimidating her. but it's very calmly and it's very, I don't know, it's, it's, it's so interesting that he originally wanted Warren Beatty for this role because that is so exactly wrong and David Carradine is so perfect for it.

Yes. That, yeah. It makes you want, like, you can understand why the idea of Warren Beatty as this figure that the movie is building towards makes sense because Warren Beatty is and Beatty. Right. But it's so much more interesting when it's a David Caradine who maybe hasn't played that type of character before but fits so comfortably within it because how he turns from sinister,

it's just, you know, it seems effortless and it seems, you know, like this sudden thing from when he's being so charming and warm. But it's really about, you know, taking that. that magnetism that he has, knowing that we in the audience are drawn to him and these characters are drawn to him, and then actually taking control of that and weaponizing it against people and almost saying, I know I have this poll over you? The supporting actor race in 2004, I've mentioned a few times how much it annoyed me that Jamie Foxx, Jamie Fox gets the collateral nomination, even though he's the last

lead of that movie, and even though he had an Oscar nomination already that year, so it's not like they needed to give him a second one. And the fact that that nomination, among others, that it leaves off, it leaves off Caradine and Kill Bill, too. And I don't know. My guess is Caradine was probably not sixth place in the voting that year, but... Probably not. Even still... I just don't love this lineup. I... Thomas Hayden Church is funny in sideways I even when I I liked sideways more at the time than I do now

and I still don't understand why that was the most praised performance from that movie if there is a certain I mean like there is an arc to that character and I think he's like kind of the perfect actor to

show how pathetic that guy is without like hammering it, but I don't know if it's still like Oscar nominee. I don't understand. I mean, I understand Alan Alda getting nominated for the Aviator because of his career, but like, that's not the performance I jump to in the Aviator. The Jamie Fox thing, I think Jamie Fox is incredible and collateral, but that is a lead performance. Yeah, he's fighting collateral.

And then Morgan Freeman, like you, you understand how Morgan Freeman, I get it. I get it. I get it. I get it. I get it. It's the greatest hits of Morgan Freeman type of thing. I understand it. I watched seven again last night for the, like... I mean, seven would be a great Morgan Freeman Oscar. Morgan Freeman is so good.

It is so fucking good in seven, as is Brad Pitt, by the way. We've somehow, like, fooled ourselves into this cultural undercurrent that Brad Pitt was bad in seven. And I don't understand it. Brad Pitt's doing a lot, but I think there's, uh, there's purpose in him doing so much in that movie. seven to do a lot. You know what I mean? Like, it's not like seven. It's like, well, we're going to be very demure about this whole thing. Um, you know who I, like, and this is not in hindsight. This is just, I'm like, this is maybe too much. No, don't do this. Oh, what? You're going to say Spacey was bad in seven. I don't think Spacey's bad, but when I watch Spacey now, and this is

probably just a sensibility of it and like the movie shocking me less now that it's like, at the time, it was so shocking and you get to that performance and it's so scary. And now I'm not scared by Spacey in that movie. He's so good. He's so fucking good in that movie. I'm sorry. Like, I know he's a bad person. It would be better if he wasn't a good actor. But here we are. No, I just, I think it's a certain sensibility thing where it's just like the performance choices in that are just not going to upset. me in the way that they did maybe in the 90s. I think that's a five-star movie. I think that's an incredible.

Oh, 100%. Anyway, what I was going to say about Al-N-Alda, because you brought up Al-N-Alda, if we had known in 2004 that marriage story was coming and that we could give Al-Nalda a career nomination for Marriage Story, that would have all worked out so much better. Like, he's so great in that movie. I mean, in the Aviator, he got, you know, I think it metastasize around that performance because he's playing against type. Sure.

And it's a career thing. Did he win BAFTA? For Aviator? That would surprise me. Hold on a second. Please hold. I thought he might have won something significant. That's wild, if true.

Ellen Alda's so funny. Like, Alan Alda was the one who was nominated for, I want to say, The Globe or something else for crimes and misdemeanors. And then at the very last moment, they're like, nope, not you. We're going to nominate Landau instead. Let's see. Awards and nominations for Mr. Allen Alda. Good thing IMDB doesn't hide everything on its page for you. Bfta.

He did not win Bafta. He was nominated for the aviator and nominated for Crime. and misdemeanors, as I just said. Let's see. He won eight bajillion Emmys for a bunch for MASH, but also, wait, I want to list all of his Emmy wins, because he's one of those people who, like,

he was nominated, like, every single year for MASH. He won in 1974. Oh, he was also... Oh, that's weird. That they had an Emmy for Actor of the Year and also Best Lead Actor in a Comedy Series, whatever. He wins in 1974, he wins in 1977, he wins in 1979, he wins in 1979, 1982, and then comes back, like, gets nominated for like, End the Band Played On, where he's so good. He's such a bastard in The Band Played On. Do you remember him? He's the doctor who, like, won't share his research or whatever.

nominated for a guest-starring appearance on ER, wins the Emmy for the final season of the West Wing, playing Republican fairy tale candidate, Arnold Vinnick, is nominated for his guest spot on 30 Rock, and then has most recently been nominated for a guest-starring role on the Blacklist. So the Emmys fucking love... How did we get on an Alan Alda kick? Oh, the 2004...

Because the Aviator. Right, okay. Safe to say we're both Clive Owen voting. characters, correct? Yes. From this line. It's incredible. Ever since I discovered that that role was played originally on Broadway by Kieran

Heinz, I can only see Kieran Heinz when I see Kieran Hines. It's like, are you his son? Like, they just look so alike to me now. I brought up my supporting actor and supporting actors, because we'll talk about him when we talk about Daryl Hanna in a second. My supporting actor ballad that year was Walberg and Jude Law for Huckabees, Clive Owen for Closer, Caradine for Kill Bill 2, and then I had Tony Leung for Hero, and now I'm like, should I watch Hero again? And was I maybe a little overrating the

acting in Hero, but like, I don't know, Tony Leon's awesome. So, like, I stand by that, I guess. I might go with... For me, around that is Sarsgaard and Kinsey. Sardgarten Kinsie. Honestly, Elfielo in Eternal Sunshine And I still think I'm in Eternal Sunshine too Wilkinson rules in that movie

I do still think I stand by My winner is Defoe and Life Aquatic Oh, he is very funny He's tremendous Paul Batteny in Dogville I think is incredible in that same year Molina and Spider-Man 2 I also think

Like fucking rules Let's talk about Darrell Hannah, who could have also been a Quentin Tarantino reclamation project, because talk about, like, a real interesting career, right? Where, like, she's in the De Palma movie The Fury, which I've never seen before, but I haven't seen it either. It's on streaming somewhere, because it's on my list of, like, things I should see for spooky month this year.

She's in Blade Runner, which I think was probably the... the first sort of big movie for her. Did she have, like, a big TV show early on, or no? Maybe not. It was a bunch of TV movies that she had done. But obviously, Splash is huge for her. 1984. She's in Splash.

She's also in the Pope of Greenwich Village that same year. And that's a movie that I saw a long time ago, but I don't really remember what happens with her in that. She's in Roxanne, opposite Steve Martin, the sort of Sierra de Bergerac, Good movie. She's in Wall Street, where she has, she's the girlfriend of Charlie Sheen, and she has the single most bananas apartment I've ever seen in my entire life, full of all these weird, like, 80s, like innovations and whatnot. How dare you just, like, breeze right past legal eagles?

Oh, I've never seen legal eagles. Talk to me about legal eagles. I mean, like, no. That, that's a movie that is a punchline just as a title. It's her and Redford and someone. Deborah Winger. Deborah Winger. An Ivan Reitman movie, Legal Eagles. I should watch that. Then Steele Magnolias, which we've argued before,

I think she's the worst of all of them, and you yelled at me for that. I just, I mean, there is no worst of all of them. But there has to be. And also, I think she's visibly... The worst of all of them is Dermit Mulroney. It's Dylan McDermott, first of all. Same.

I love that you earnestly, make that mistake. Most people now, like, affectedly make that mistake, and I love that you still earnestly make that mistake. That's great. Exactly. He's the worst one in the movie, so who am I supposed to remember who he even is? Jackson. Um, uh, no, I think she's, I think she's noticeably a step behind everybody else in that movie, but I will, I won't know that. Whatever, let's keep going. She's the attack of the 50-foot woman. I remember that from Blockbuster days. I do actually also remember that. Is that a Showtime movie? Yes, yes, I say with a question mark.

It's listed under her TV work. In the grumpy movies. Right? She's, she's, she's, um, who's, wait, whose daughter is it? She's which one's daughter? Jack Lemons. Lemon's daughter, right? Uh, yeah, yeah, because Kevin Pollock is Walter Maffaus' son.

Right, okay. She's in Memoirs of an Invisible Man, the John Carpenter movie that I've never seen, opposite Chevy Chase. And then it's like, then the 90s are a real sort of wasteland. I recently saw, because I did the Grisham draft on screen draft, so I watched The Ginger Bread Man for the first time. And she's so weirdly cast in that movie. She's like the DA, maybe?

Or like, she's like, she's like the most, this is going to sound like shade. She's the most competent character in the movie. She's like the professional. or whatever, who, like, while, like, Kenneth Branagh is, like, making every bad, dumb decision possible, and, like, you know, Robert Townie Jr. is sort of the scummy, like, investigator, photographer guy. And, like, Daryl Hannah is, like, the adult in the room. And meanwhile, the, like, obviously untrustworthy femme fatale is Mbeth Davids. And it's, like, maybe swap those two. Like, maybe just, like, make Daryl Hannah the obviously untrustworthy, uh, femme fatale. And, like, let, And Beth Davids play the adult in the room, like she should be playing? I don't know. It's a weird movie, super weird movie.

But, like, the 90s are like a real, a real wasteland for Daryl Hannah. And by the time Kill Bill comes around, she's in movies. She's in Casadillo's babies. You know, she's in Dancing at the Blue Aguana, which is... My favorite Martian. She's in Marcia. Um, but it's like, it's a real, it's a desert for. her. And then she comes in, and she's in volume one, and she's got the incredible scene

where she's whistling down the corridor in the hospital with her nurse. Well, first of all, in her trench coat with her painted on pockets. And then in the nurse outfit. And you get the one scene of her on the phone with Bill, and she says the thing to the bride about I hope you never wake up. It does not prepare you for how much fucking fun she is. Yeah. In the very brief screen time she has in volume two. Like, it's, you remember her so much more than her screen time actually communicates in volume two. She's really in a very small part of this movie.

She's in marginally more than she is in volume one. But she's the show. But she gets to have a fight. Well, she also gets to have a monologue. Like, it's the two things you want out of a charity movie. She's such a natural fit into this movie that it is somewhat of a wonder. that he never cast her again? Yes, yes.

He does that, though. Because I'd love to see her in another one of his movies. He didn't cast Forster again. He didn't cast Travolta again. You know what I mean? Like, he's a person who does, who has his loyalties and he has his people who he does carry from, like, movie to movie. But it's not often the reclamation projects, right? Right.

Like, it's those people are kind of one-offs in a way, which I think is interesting. but she first has the scene with Bud where I love that scene too where everything in that scene has a sharp edge where it's like the ice cube tray is one of those old-fashioned ones with the blades that dirty-ass blender right

like everything and it's all setting you up subconsciously for the Mamba to make its appearance and then she takes out her little stenopad or whatever, and her memo pad, rather, and starts reading that Wikipedia entry. And it's so, it's classic Tarantino, right? Where it's like, it's somebody being so compelling, just reading dialogue. And the thing about, like, gargantuan, I so, I so rarely get the chance to use it in a

sentence. You mentioned the part at the very beginning about, like, this part pertains to you. to listen up. There's so many, just line readings that you remember of only with the mamba is death shore, all that kind of stuff. And she, like, peppers that in with this just, like, snarling disdain for Bud that he could have gotten the jump on her, and I don't know, the way she, like, talks to Bill on the phone, where she's like, she tries to placate him and it's all, like, baby, it's fine.

what does she say like go smoke a joint and i'll be uh and i'll be home before you know or something like that clearly that like she's now the woman he's moved on to and like she thinks that she's like she's in with bill and like but we all know that like bill is still hung up on she has nothing to do with bb we know that darrow hannah does get to share a best fight mtv movie award with umma thurman read out our nominees for that please read out our nominees I can't wait. Our nominees are Anchorman for the Battle of All Those News Teams, House of Flying Deggers for Siege-Zong fighting a whole slew of guards, and then Troy for Brad Pitt and Eric Banna.

I don't even think that's the fight that I choose. Achilles versus Hector, man. I kind of can't wait to rewatch Troy. I am so willing to just like... It would be a great exceptions episode. It would be a great exceptions episode. It was nominated for what? Cinematography.

Costumes. Sure. Well, sure, right, because it shows off all their gams. Yeah. Those little skirts and whatnot. They just nominated Tom of Finland for all of the gear for that movie. First Oscar nomination for Tom of Finland. Congratulations.

We congratulate Tom of Finland. That's a well-deserved win for Best Flight. Well-deserved win. This movie did even better, you might. say at the MTV Movie Awards because Uma Thurman wins best hero not best female performance this time though

she is nominated for that. She loses to Lindsay Lohan for Mean Girls. Also nominated Rachel McAdams for the Notebooks. Oh so this is the notebook year. The MTV Movie Awards where they recreate the kiss. Natalie Portman for Garden State

and Hillary Swank for Million Dollar Baby. Sometimes they like to nominate the Oscar nominees. than I don't think ever give them the surprise. So you have to imagine when Uma Thurman and Daryl Hannah win for Best Fight, that clapping along for them in the audience is Ryan Gosling in his Darfur t-shirt. So just picture that in your mind. Umah Thurman winning Best Hero also nominated were Matt Damon for the Bourne supremacy,

Keanu Reeves for Constantine. That's hilarious, by the way. for Spider-Man 2, and wait for it. Hugh Jackman for Van Helsing. Constantine's a rad movie. Keanu Reeves is awesome in it. The whole point of that guy is that he's not strictly a hero. Like, that's the whole point of Constantine, that he's like an anti-hero.

He kind of is. He's a protagonist. Criminally, Tilda was not nominated for Best Villain. For playing Gabriel. Spider-Man 2 was nominated for Best Villain, though, for, wow, the Broadway establishment for canceling Mary Jane's Broadway musical? Wait, is that Spider-Man 2 or is that Spider-Man 3? No, wait, wait.

When is MJ on Broadway? Oh, fuck. The villain of Broadway. Spider-Man 2, she marries, like, astronaut Mike Dexter or whatever the fuck, right? And then her is supposed to. she's engaged. I think it's Spider-Man 3, right? Because he, like, that's when he's, like, turning into, like, asshole, dancey. Emo. Emo. Emo Peter Parker. Yeah. Okay. So Kill Bill Volume 2 does not win, but is nominated for Best Movie, whereas Volume 1 was not. I'm going to give you... I mean, maybe I shouldn't gamify this, but we're... No, gamify it. I like it. I like it. I'm going to give you the other four nominees. You have to tell me what won. Napoleon Dynamite The Incredibles,

Ray and Spider-Man 2 In terms of popularity, it should be Spider-Man 2, but wasn't Napoleon Dynamite an MTV film's production? It was, and yes, it was. So I think it's Napoleon Dynamite wins. Yeah.

What a time. What a time had by all. Listen, there was a moment where youth culture was all told that we should all be I always Napoleon Dynamite Maybe I'm wrong

Maybe there was a genuine groundswell for A Napoleon Dynamite Napoleon Dynamite to me seems like the astroturf Of Of Of like indie films in that like You know how AstroTurf is the derogatory term

For like fake grassroots stuff That like stuff is supposed to look like grassroots But it's not That to me is Napoleon Dynamite Is they try to fake an indie ground swell of appeal. And it's like... Right. It was always mainstream and it was always

teen. Which makes me sound like an asshole and I'm like, other people fell for it, but I didn't. Like, I don't know. That's not really what I'm saying. But like, you know what I mean? Like, it just seems so obvious to me. Yeah. I am not cool enough to admit that I fell for it in 2004. That's fine. But, you know. Mean Girls was definitely the big winner of this MTV movie award, because it also won on-screen team.

And Rachel McAdams won... Villain. ...breakthrough female. Who won Best Villain? Best villain went to Ben Stiller for Dodgeball. Over Rachel McAdams for Mean Girls? And Alfred Molina, Tom Cruise for collateral, and Jim Carrey for Lemony Snicket. That's fucked up.

Isn't Dodgeball like a $100 million movie? Dodgeball was really popular. I loved Dodgeball, but that's still fucked up in terms of an award. I think Dodge Ball's great. But also, like, Ben Stiller's maybe, like, the fourth best part of Dodge Ball, too. It's like Rip Torn, Justin Long, the Dodge Balls, Jason Bateman, then, like, Ben Stiller. So, like, I don't know, man. I don't know.

Priorities, priorities is what I'm saying. Also, Missy Pyle and her Unibrow. Anyway. We should also talk about Uma Thurman's Globe nomination. Let's. Because David Carradine is basically nominated with the Oscar lineup, and then Alan Alda gets his spot. This best actress in a drama lineup is interesting and funny. Hillary Swank wins for Million Dollar Baby.

The only other Oscar nominee there is Amelda Staunton for Vera Drake. Also nominated previous, this had Austin. Oscar Buzz episode, Birth, Nicole Kidman. Right. And previous this had Oscar Buzz episode that I completely forgot. We did and forgot everything about the movie, Scarlett Johansson, in a love song for Bobby Long. Bobby! Bobby!

We talked about Uma's career leading up to the Kill Bill's last time. I want to talk about her career immediately following the Kill Bill's this time. because this is where it sort of gets and also we can like what did we just find out about this week who accused Harvey Weinstein of sexual assault Julia Ormond right anytime an actor or sorry

anytime an actress who was big in the 90s and it's like whatever happened to them my very first thought is always like oh it's something like this oh it's something like some sort of sexual harassment thing and they were, you know, they were forced out of the industry or they were, you know, shunned or wash their hands of it or whatever. It's so just depressing. And so you look at like everything we know about like Uma Thurman and the fallout between her and Tarantino and what she's said about Harvey Weinstein. So all of that, take all of that into account when we talk about

her career on the back side of the Kill Bill movies. She's in Be Cool, in two, 2005, which reunites her, speaking of, you know, Tarantino, she comes off of the Kill Bill reunion with Tarantino, then reunites with Travolta from Pulp Fiction in Be Cool in a movie that was like universally panned. And like, everybody was like, we do not like this. We did not want this. We all loved, it's the Get Shorty sequel. And for as much as people love to get shorty, they hated Be Cool. So, um, That same year, 2005, she's really coming hot off of Kelbill. So she's in The Producers, where she plays Oola. We will do the producers. We're constantly promising. But it's one of our few musicals we still have in the chamber. We've burned through so many musicals.

So we're like really trying to hold on to it with all that we have. Though at this point, now that we're doing exceptions over on the Patreon, that's a lot of musicals that it opens us up to. But anyway, she's also in Prime. We've done an episode on Prime. Um, not a good movie, but a movie that I, uh, weirdly think fondly of because it reminds me of other movies that I like better than it. Um, but that's like three bombs right there. Three at least, uh, prime, I think, did the best box office of those three, but like all three of those did not get good reviews. Producers, I thought made some money, right? Am I wrong? No, I guess not. No, it really didn't. I don't know why I thought it did okay. I guess not. Um, 2006, the bombs continue, my super ex-girlfriend, again, that's an Ivan Reitman movie, where she's Luke Wilson's girlfriend, and the whole idea is, imagine being a superhero's

boyfriend, boy, that had super suck, like, wouldn't that be awful? I'm like, I don't know. Secret Columbine. Secret Columbine movie, The Life Before Her Eyes, which was What's His Faces, follow-up to House of Sand and Fogg, Vadim Perelman's House of the Follow Ship follow-up to House of Sandin Fog. A movie called The Accidental Husband, which is a Griffin-Dun movie, where she is, as the poster suggests, torn between

a suit jacket wearing Colin Firth and a grubby t-shirt-wearing Jeffrey Dean Morgan, who's like poking her on the shoulder. This movie looks horrible. I'm just saying from the poster. I'm only saying from the poster that it looks horrible. She plays Medusa and Percy Jackson and the Lightning Thief. She's in what I think is a really good movie from Max Winkler called Ceremony from 2010 that, like, very few people saw. But it's her and Michael Ongarano, and he, like, essentially, like, falls for her during a wedding weekend for his brother, maybe.

I don't know, something's happening. It's the first time I'd ever seen Jake Johnson in anything. Jake Johnson plays the sort of like... No, he's the brother. He's Michael Ongarano's brother, and he's very, like, disturbed. I need to see this movie again, because clearly the plot is escaping me. But I remember really liking it, and I thought she was really good in it. She's in the non-gay porn movie Bellamy in 2012.

in movie 43, where she, along with a lot of other people, we can't only let Uma go down with that chip. She's a nymphomaniac. I always confuse that quote now. Would we like to show the children the whoring bed? That's the thing. Ever since the Beguiled, I now confuse that quote with Kidman's and so I always have Uma in my mind saying, fetch me the whoring bed, which like, that's not That's not how that works. She's, of course, in a little movie in 2015 called Burnt. Also in this window, she is in not just Smash, but also the Slap. Yes.

That's a one-two punch of television. She plays famous nut allergy sufferer Rebecca Duvall in Smash. And then she plays, what's her like? incredibly Greek name in the slap, a nuke, a nuke layfam in the slap. I was going to say she's the hand in the slap. Who slaps? Who slaps in the slap? It's Quinto. Zachary Quinto slaps Melissa George and Peter Sarsgaard's kid. Oh my God, wait, I'm reading you the cast as listed in Wikipedia. Maybe we need to do an excursion on the slap. We do because, okay, it's Peter Sarzgard as Hector

Apastolu. I can't remember how they pronounce their name. Tanduey A Newton played Peter Sarsgarde's wife. They had two kids. Uma Thurman is like friend of the family, freewheeling TV

producer chick. Melissa George is fuck, wait, Melissa George and Tom Sadowski play the parents of the kid who gets slapped. The slappy. Hugo is referred to in Wikipedia as the slapy. Zachary Quinto is Peter Sarsgaard's cousin who does the slapping.

His wife is played by Marin Ireland. Peter Sarsgarde's father is played by Brian Cox. Who else is in this show? Why is this happening? I just remember Lucas Hedges being like the one daughter's friend. The Slap was ABC, right? So it's feasibly on Peacock right now. NBC.

Yeah, so it should be on, it should be. Let's find out. We're going to find this out in one second. The Slap. Yeah, that would be a hell of an excursions episode, The Slap. We're making so many excursions promises. We only do one a month. We're probably like scheduled out for through like 2025.

It does not say, the slap was on NBC. Yeah, that's what I said. NBC stuff is on Peacock, though. Okay, got it. ABC stuff is on Hulu. Well, anyway, it's not either. It's on Acorn. Why is it not on Peacock?

Get your shit together, Peacock. You can rent it on Amazon, though, the slap. All right. Anyway, Uma somehow gets, like, multiple Lars von Trier stuff, because it's not just Infomaniac. She's in the horrid the house that Jack built, which is, like, so, it makes you really just feel it, like, grimy. She's, of course, in the war with Grandpa, which was the number one movie at the box office for several weeks during the pandemic. And then most recently, she's the president of the United States with an empirically correct Texas accent.

I don't know that anybody ever had any problems with it. So nobody mentioned it or said that it sounded crazy or anything like that in red, white, and royal blue. So I just, I, having not watched that, having, you know, going to be a pass on that. I'm going to have to pass on that one. Doth spoke, Ruth Franklin. I just, I don't want to ever hear it. I don't want to ever hear it because I've heard so many different things that I, the version that lives in my mind is the most pure.

That makes sense. She's also going to be upcoming in the non-Gena Prince Bythwood directed the Old Guard 2, the sequel to another pandemic era movie, the Old Guard, which I imagine would put her and Charlize Theron in, conflict? Like, you'd be stupid to cast Uma Thurman in that movie and not have her and Charlie's sort of go toe to toe. These two action chicks of the aughts, right? Like, that's sort of, that seems, you know, that seems to only make sense. You'd want the bride and Furiosa to do battle in the Old Guard, too. Why else are you making the Old Guard, too? You know what I

mean? Sure. Are you not looking forward to that? I'm looking forward to that. I didn't love the old. No, I just mean the idea of Charlize and Uma fighting in a movie. Oh, sure, sure, sure, sure. I would watch that in anything. Yeah. I liked the old guard probably a little bit less. The old guard hype was very weird. We like, you can't, it's like you can't recreate the lab conditions for the old guard. It really did come at the crossroads of so many things where it was like the pandemic. It was so nice to see a movie that had some scale. to it during the pandemic. But still all that CGI looks like dog shit in that movie. Right, right. But you remember what I mean about like it was nice. It was the first movie in a while at during the point in the pandemic that it aired where it was like, oh, this feels like. Along with Defy Bloods.

Yes. This feels like a movie that feels like a movie. And at the same time, it was like there was a lot of optimism for Gina Prince Bythe Wood. there was a lot of, I think there was a desire for her to succeed to have her success be trumpeted. Do you know what I mean? Like, to not let another good Gina Prince Bythwood movie get swept under the rug like Beyond the Lights did. Do you know what I mean? So there was a lot of vocal enthusiasm for it.

And I think at some point that ended up overrating the movie a little bit, but I still enjoyed it for what it was. And I'm interested to see where this next movie goes, even if it is just an excuse to have Charlize and Uma go punchy, punchy with each other. Because I'm into that. So, yeah, Uma Thurman, we're at almost a two-hour mark. We should probably wrap up our... This movie, once again, stayed in the awards race, not just for the, like, Globes that we mentioned in David Carradine, I think especially. It's still what got mentions by guild nominations from the editors, costume designers, and sound editors, all which had recognized the first movie as well. I think back what we said at the top, that this was a less violent movie than the first one, and got better reviews definitely kind of help this movie in that way, that it has more finger quotes respectability in that way.

More of those classic Tarantino monologues, more of the kinds of pastiche stuff that voters, you know, appeal to. Like, a Western is always going to appeal to Oscar voters better than a samurai movie. Let's also not forget that the Oscars were coming off of awarding in a big way the franchise finale of, you know, a multi-installment. Story. That is true. That's very true. I'm glad we did these two episodes back to back, though. I like the idea of taking this as a saga, taking, you know, this interesting chapter of Tarantino's career.

I was happy to do a little anniversary. Do you like to do that. And, yeah, if you're listening to these and you haven't gone and watched, rewatched or watched the Kill Bills, I would say do it. You don't have to watch them both back to back, but watch them both within a few weeks of each other, I would say. Like, it's an experience. It's a fun experience.

So there we have it. A good time. Joe, would you like to describe the IMDB game for our listeners? Yeah, I can read off the rules for the IMDB game. I've done it before, after all. Every week we end our episodes with the IMDB game, where we challenge each other with an actor or actress and try and guess the top four titles that IMDB says

they are most known for. If any of those titles are television, voice only performances, or non-acting credits, we mentioned that up front. After two wrong guesses, we get the remaining titles release years as a clue. And if that's not enough, it just becomes a free for all of hints. And would you like to give or guess first, my friend? I'll give, because you're going to be mad at me about it, and then I'll give you time to... All right, that's fine. I went into Be Cool, the cast of Be Cool, which was Uma's follow-up to Kill Bill, as I mentioned. Are you giving me Andre Benjamin?

No, you gave me Andre Benjamin some recently, so... Oh, okay. Or somebody gave me Andre Benjamin, maybe it was a guest. I'm giving you Vince Vaughn. Okay, Vince Vaughn, Wedding Crashers. Yes. There's a lot of options here. I feel like even for something recently, was it called Freaky?

People seem to like that movie. I have to imagine Swingers is there. I'm waiting for official guesses. Swingers. No, not Swingers. No swingers. Okay. I wonder Fred Clause is there.

Fred Clause showed up for somebody. I don't know. I hate Vince Vaughn. I know. I know you're going to say this. Old school. No, no old school. Oh, okay.

All right. Your years are. 2006, 2009, and 2017. Wow. Okay. So, two that are in the era of Vince Vaughn that I would have expected in 2017. Is 2017 Haxall Ridge? No, that's 2016. Okay. So after Haxar Ridge, but what the hell would that have been? you say 2009 and what?

2006. Okay. So both of those are after... Both of those have him with a producer credit, but he's also the star, one of the main stars of both of them. 2006 doesn't happen to be Fred Claus, does it? No, it's not Fred Claus.

Producer credits. These have to be comedies. They are. but what was I wiped most of his movies out of my brain because I the titles at least seem like sort of thematically related a little bit man children they're all just about overgrown man women hating man children Um, okay, so The 2006 one was, I believe, pretty successful.

Right, that would make sense. Um, and was like, I remember people being like, no, that's a pretty good movie. And, like, is a comedy, but also, like, works. As dramatic elements. Yeah, like, works as, like, takes its subject seriously. And he's the lead. He's one of the two leads. It's like a two lead movie.

They're both on the, the poster. Both dudes. Nope. They are... No. Man and a woman. Oh, okay. So it's a man and a woman. It's a rom-com then. Yeah, but like the rom is, is, has faded. Oh, it's the breakup. The breakup, yeah. So before the breakup, people like that movie. Before the breakup, what might you try to, to get things back on track? Oh, couples, a couples retreat. couples retreat there you go okay so that's your 2009 your 2017 is a movie i haven't seen and i'm sure you

haven't seen but we both have heard of and both of us i imagine at hearing oh is this like dragged across concrete it's not but it's like brawl and cell block 99 it is brawl and cell block 99 god fuck off um yes exactly exactly yeah that's your brian cox no or not your brian cox you're uh you're You're Vince Vaughn known for. Brian Cox would never. Yeah, there we go. What Brian Cox? Brian Cox has been in a lot of movies, and a lot of them not good.

Yeah, but he's also been in a lot of good movies. I don't know. I think Brian Cox's batting average is better than Vince Fons, but we can argue. Probably, no doubt. I stayed for you in the lane of Bill actors, and surprisingly, I went easier on you this week, but we've never done Bill Murray. Really? Apparently not. Bill Murray is interesting because you're going to be tempted to go for a lot of 80s stuff,

but the IMDB game skews later. But I'm still going to say Ghostbusters. Incorrect. No Ghostbusters. Fucker. Lost in translation. Lost in translation, correct. Huh, huh, huh, huh. There's going to be some real fuckery here, I can tell.

Um, Rushmore? Correct, Rushmore. Okay. His second biggest award's success. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Um. Groundhog Day. Incorrect. No Groundhog Day.

Really? So your years are 2004 and 2012. The Life Aquatic? Life Aquatic. Really? And then 2012, Murray, is it Moonrise? Is it all West Anderson? It's Moonrise Kingdom.

Wow. Three West Anderson's and the Lofsen Foundation. Oh, man. The hipsters really got to the IMDB game there. That's incredible. No Ghostbusters, no Groundhog Day, nothing like stripes. Right, right, right. Well, I knew, I had a feeling that it would be largely weighted against that.

I didn't know it would be so weighted against that. But wow, fascinating. Fun. We did it. We killed the entire, the crazy 88s. We killed Bill. Apologies in advance, not in advance at this point. Apologies after the fact for if this episode had a lot of my, like, awful mouth sounds from me being sick all week.

I tried to keep that away from you as much as possible. But I pledge to be more functional next week. We've got some good episodes coming up soon. ahead of us. And of course, you should join us on Patreon at patreon.com slash this had Oscar buzz for even more good stuff. And we'll keep the good times rolling as we head through the end of 2023. All right. And that's our episode. If you want more this had Oscar Buzz, you can check out the Tumblr at thisheadoscarbuzz.com. Please also follow us on Twitter at had underscore Oscar buzz and on Instagram at This Had Oscar Buzz. And then, of course, go and subscribe to our Patreon

over at patreon.com slash this had Oscar buzz. Joe, where can our listeners find more of you? Can find me in the grave marked Paula Schultz in Barstow, California, but also on Twitter and letterboxed at Joe Reed, read-spelled, R-E-I-D. And I am enjoying a spa day with Beatrix Kiddo over on Twitter and letterboxed at Chris V-File, that's F-E-I-L. We would like to thank Kyle Cummings for his fantastic. Artwork, David Gonzalez and Gavin Media's

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immediately show us your five-star review. That's all for this week. We hope you'll be back next week for more buzz and less bill. You know what I'm going to do.