This Had Oscar Buzz - 266 – The Nest

Episode Date: December 4, 2023

We who loved his debut Martha Marcy May Marlene (see previous episode!) waited eagerly for director Sean Durkin’s follow-up feature while he worked in television and produced other films. That sophomore feature came almost a decade later with The Nest. Starring Carrie Coon and Jude Law, the film follows a married couple who move to England to follow … Continue reading "266 – The Nest"

Oh, oh, wrong house. No, the right house. We want to talk to Mel and Hack, Millen Hack and French. I'm from Canada water. Dick Pooh. You're delusional because you have nothing, Rory. We have nothing. It's horrible here.

No one is the same here. There's nothing wrong with this house. People seem to want everything and expect every need to be fulfilled. What is happening? You're all strangers to me right now, all of you? You're embarrassing. And you're exhausting. This is what we always wanted.

Hello and welcome to the This Had Oscar Buzz podcast, the only podcast by sexually working our way through a wealthy family. Every week on This Had Oscar Buzz, we'll be talking about a different movie that once upon a time had lost the Academy Award aspirations, but for some reason or another, it all went wrong. Oscar hopes died, and we're here to perform the autopsy. I am your host, Chris Fyle, and I'm here, as always, with my sense of dread so foreboding it kills my symbolic horse. Joe Reed. I love a symbolic horse. Symbolic horses are rampant throughout Hollywood and filmmaking, and...

The symbolic horse in this movie, I think, was a tipping point for some of the people who didn't like it. I think they thought it was a little too heavy-handed. However, I think... I think it's fine that it's heavy-handed because remove the symbolic horse from this movie. Right. And then it's all just entirely suggestion and vibe and sense of foreboding without anything to actually, like, hang it on. Right. I still don't think you can hang it on the horse. Like, I still feel like everything that happens in this movie is. is vibes like the horse did kind of die of vibes you know what i mean like the horse died of bad

vibes um but i i don't know i think not to be like nothing happens in this movie but you do need sure some type of i think at least for carrie coon's character yeah yeah yeah something to tip her tip her scales yeah yeah something to like yeah you know when like in life when everything's going wrong. It's not the thing that's going wrong that like, you know, you end up putting all of your weight in everything is going wrong. It's the thing that is extraneous to everything going wrong, but could still be bad. And then, like, that is the source of all of your pain in those situations. Oh, poor Richmond. Um, what a good movie, though. I can't wait to talk about this movie. I think we're this movie's too biggest fan.

I think a lot of people really... This movie was like 90% on Rotten Tomatoes. Like, this was not, you know... Some of those reviews, though, are somewhat damning in that it is... I mean, it was like an 80 on Metacritic, too. But there... I think especially a lot of the Sundance reactions were like, what is this movie? It was...

Sure. You understand why a Sean Durkin movie would go to Sundance, but it was also maybe the wrong... You know who was all in on this movie is our friend and... future guest very coming up soon, very future guest, Richard Lawson, who called it one of the best movies of the year, which it was. It really was. I mean, especially in a year where we didn't get many movies, especially many good movies. We'll talk about that Sundance, though, because that Sundance is very fascinating, because Sundance happened in the year where we thought it would be a normal year, and then it turned out to be a very not normal year. And so throughout that

not normal year, a lot of people were looking to what played at Sundance because it's already a movie that kind of existed in the world. And of course, there were movies that were held for a while, most notoriously Zola, which, you know, A24 held for more than a full year before putting it in theaters. Yep. Yeah. It's a fascinating lineup of movies. And the thing I was listening to the Blank Check episode on Mank earlier, and they talk about the sort of the memory holing of a lot of those movies from 2020, where they just exist in this kind of pit that we don't always really want to look down into. You know what I mean? And it's sort of a year we've tried to paper over in a lot of ways. And so you look at even the movies that were very good that year. You know what I mean? I mean like even Nomad Land is a Best Picture winner or Judas and the Black Messiah or Minari. Even Minari, which like Minari was my favorite movie of that year. And I don't like it any less now, but nobody really talks about Minari right now, which is kind of, you know, kind of too bad.

Also, like, what is Lee Isaac Chung doing? And I would like him to make a movie. He's doing the Twister sequel. Oh, right. So depressing. I don't care how hot that cast. is, as Joe likes to mention. Here's what I will say, though.

The second that trailer comes out, I guarantee you, I'm tweeting it with a we're so-back comments on it. So I don't know, man. Like, I talk a big game, and yet I will be all in on the Twisters sequel, probably. So we'll see. I mean, I'll be all in. I, just, I, you wish that Lee Isaac Chung would get to do literally whatever. I say this about Lee Isaac Chung.

I say this about Barry Jenkins. any of these filmmakers who get stuck doing weird commercial stuff or television. And we'll talk about Sean Durkin. Barry Jenkins' television is exceptional television that clearly he wanted to do. Yes, but it means that we haven't had a Barry Jenkins feature in five years going to be. You know what I mean? Like, it's, I would trade it. You know what I mean?

And that's just me. Yeah. But that's the reality of the situation these days. Sean Durkin will definitely talk about the reality of an indie filmmaker who made a big splash. And then this is his second, the nest is his second feature, nine years later. And there's reasons for that. Which is almost surprising that the Iron Claw came together so quickly. Well, he's been.

When you have these giant gaps and, like, also he's become more prolific in TV recently, too. He'd been working on that one for a while. though, like, at least the script for it. Like, that was one of his, like, ideas and his ideas being that he had been pouring over for a while. I'm so excited for the Iron Claw. I can't even tell you. Let's get into the Iron Claw now. Okay.

Because, like, the Iron Claw is one of the less. People have started to see it. It started to screen. Our good friend and former guest Matt Jacobs saw it and sent me the best message, best DM I've ever gotten, which is, it's really good. It's definitely a Sean Durkin movie. And then I just replied, like, all caps, like, I knew it. Because that trailer came out, and everybody was like, this doesn't look like a Sean Durkin movie. And I knew it.

I knew because the other thing is, well, we'll talk about Dead Ringers in a little bit. But like, having seen his episodes of Dead Ringers this year, I'm like, he's still got it. You know what I mean? Like, he's still very much, you know, that filmmaker, that quasi, you know, not horror but horror filmmaker. and I'm excited to see what he does, what he brings of that quality to the Iron Claw, a story that I know very well because I watched wrestling in the 90s. And the character who Jeremy Allen White plays, Carrie Von Erick, who was the only one of this family of wrestling brothers to, during my time watching the

WWF, which is now the WWE, to have wrestled in the WWF, which was like the big commercial like wrestling federation. And he was sort of a upper mid-level star for a while for a couple of years. And then injury kind of derailed that. And then ultimately he's one of the, it's not a spoiler to say like most of those brothers died. Like that's the whole reason you're telling that story. This sort of family of cursed, you know, but his brother, you know, he had already had brothers who had died. And it's a whole, it's a whole, it's a. a dark story, but it's also like just a very sad and tragic story. And it'll be very interesting to see what kind of sort of haunted quality Durkan brings to it. Like, it won't be hard, I think,

to bring some of what he does very, you know, best to that movie. I think ever since we heard that this was going to be skipping the festivals, partly because it wasn't finished in time for festivals, but then opening wide on Christmas, I think while that was exciting to us, people who like Sean Durkan's movies, it was also scary because we were like, wait, is he doing some type of mainstream movie? Which is why I think, you know, hearing from Matt that it is very Sean Durkeney is a relief to us. But the other side of that coin, though, is because at least something mainstreamy might have a shot at like connecting to audiences. Now my worry is that like it's going to get disappeared in the Christmas season and completely overshadowed. And because all of

these, you know, precursor awards are set, I know they've all seen, you know, anybody who's voting for something will have seen it on a, in a screening or something like that by now. But there is a way that like late December movies just don't get recognition or consideration from precursor awards, and this is the kind of movie that's going to need that kind of buzz to make its mark. And I hope it can. I haven't seen anybody granted, like, full reviews are still under embargo, but their social sentiments allowed. I haven't seen anybody kind of over the moon about it in a way that would think me to lead that that's going to happen. I saw somebody tweet.

about, like, let's not forget the Iron Claw as we get into voting for precursors, and now I can't remember who it was. But, yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm very guarded when it comes to my hopes for this movie, because I want the world for it. And I think it's, I do feel like it now does seem to be, I mean, hey, at least this movie is getting released, which is more than Jeff Nichols can say for, uh, the bike riders. So, alas. And I mean, it'll be, I'm sure Martha Marcy and Marlene got enough to be considered a wide release at some point. But, like, this is certainly going to be his widest release. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's cool.

I am very curious to see where I come down on SAC Efron's performance because I have seen trusted opinions. People who's like, taste I usually align with and trust say that he's very good. And I've also seen people whose taste I align with and trust say that he is not very good. Oh, interesting. So I'm very curious. I'm curious about his performance, too. I'm excited for Jeremy Allen White and Harris Dickinson. I feel like those have a real good...

And Holt McAllenny, who, like, I've just rewatched Mind Hunter recently. So, like, I'm very, very much in a big Holt McCallany place. And he's so good on that show. And I'm excited. And of course, more a tyranny as the mother. I was going to say, you know, I'm excited for more a tyranny, but I have heard not a single thing about her. I don't think her role is that big is from what I'm hearing. I have just recently started, as I texted you the other day, started watching the new Brit Marling show, a murder at the end of the world.

So Harris Dickinson is on that, and he's doing a very good job on that. So Joe sent me a text saying he loves the Brit Marling show. I resisted all, or just to send a pretends to be shocked, meme at him. I'm only two episodes into it. So I don't, loves is probably premature, but I'm very into it. Like, it's, it's, it's hitting all my buttons. So I'm very happy to have a new Brit Marling show back in my life, just to save that. Very happy to be closer and closer to, I wish we could have recorded this after we've seen the Iron Claw, but I know.

It would probably mean we would be doing it next month. Yeah. And next month, we've got other things in store. Other things in store, indeed. But, yeah, we shall see. I'm very excited for this movie, especially among the Christmas glut. The Christmas lineup of movies, while, you know, everybody bemoans the state of the box office. We'll see whatever box office discussion gets dropped into our movie Fantasy League for this episode.

But I do think that this is a much more adult Christmas movie-going season that I think I'm more excited for, the type of movies that might have some legs to them. It's the expansion of American fiction, poor things, Iron Claw is opening, color purple is opening, Ferrari is opening. And then you have like Aquaman kind of being an afterthought, but I'm sure it'll make some money. But all those other movies that you're talking about have such a wide variance to. them. I could see all of them doing better than expected or worse than expected. And it feels me... I don't think Ferrari's going to do

better than expected, but I'm happy it's there. Probably not. But I'm more talking about like, poor things in American fiction and the color purple and that kind of stuff. We're like, you can see a world in which they overperform and you can see a world, unfortunately, in which they

underperform, which will bum me out in all those cases, really. You know? So it does just feel like when you look at 90s weekend box office, it feels like some type of weekend from the 90s. Yes, it does. But in the 90s, all of those movies would make money. And I just want that back.

Right. I want that reality back. Go to go to the movies, people. Like, the problem is, I can rant and Rayball. I want our listeners are not the problem. You know what I mean? It's everybody else. For God's sake.

Make your family go see a film this holiday season. Make that your gift to your good pals at this had Oscar Buzz. Joe, tell our listeners about this had Oscar Buzz turbulent brilliance. Oh, do you mean our Patreon that we've recently launched? And for $5 a month, they can get two bonus episodes per month. That turbulent brilliance? Is that of which you speak? Yes.

Yeah. So this had Oscar Buzz turbulent brilliance. is our new Patreon for $5 a month. You get two new episodes per month. One of those episodes every month where it's going to be an exceptions episode, which is a movie that for all but one or two Oscar nominations would have qualified for the main feed of this had Oscar buzz. We do not do any movies on the main feed that had any nominations at all.

But you can get a couple of Oscar nominations and still be in general a disappointment. Recently, we have talked about Barbara Streisand's The Mirror Has Two Faces. which was a fascinating conversation. We had our good pal, Katie Rich, on to talk about Baz Luhrman's Australia. I think we'll all remember our listener's choice episode on The Lovely Bones and the tomb that that placed in the middle of our house. Then for a second episode every month, we'll be getting what is called an excursion episode.

And those are ones where we travel far afield of our normal format and talk about not movies, but movie-related ephemera. The 1996 MTV Movie Awards was a recent one. The Hollywood Reporter Actress Roundtables are very much fodder for this. We have coming up an awards race, 2023 awards race state of the precursors, state of the awards race coming up. And I imagine we'll have quite a few thoughts. We tend to let that kind of bleed into our regular episodes anyway, but this is going to be a fully dedicated, take a look at what's happening, we'll be in the middle of December precursor season, and still have all sorts of, you know, all sorts of award season to look forward to. So there'll be a lot to talk about there. We will hopefully have a lot to talk about with regard to Sean Durkan and the Iron Claw if things go well for that. So like I said, $5 a month. You'll also get things like you can send in questions. for our listener, our Patreon-only mailbag.

You can send in voicemails that we will answer that we are posting a few times every month and answering your various questions. We have been having such a good time, Chris, doing that. That's maybe one of my favorite developments of the Patreon so far. We will have polls that you can vote in, and we are not done innovating for the Patreon. So we are, we're cooking up some ideas in 2024 should hopefully be a very interesting year for the Patreon. So that's why it's important that you should, you know, get in now and don't miss a bit of it because we're having a great time over there. What better during the holiday season to do in the season of giving, where you're giving to everyone else,

gift yourself something nice with a $5 subscription to our Patreon. As Barbara Streisand and Celine Dion sang in the very boring song, Tell Him, Love can be the gift you give yourself, and so let this head Oscar Buzz be the gift you give yourself this holiday season. And we should also add, as of this recording, we have some newly open slots on our sponsor level if you are feeling particularly generous and you want to give yourself an even nicer gift. We have a sponsor tier level that gets you some extra bonuses like personalized thank you's from us. If you subscribe at that level for three straight months, you're going to get to pick an episode on the main feed. So, yeah. Keep that in mind.

Very, very exciting there. To sign up for This Had Oscar Buzz, Turbulent Brilliance, all you have to do is go to our Patreon page at patreon.com slash this had Oscar Buzz. Do it. You won't regret it. What's the thing that Natalie Portman says in Garden State? It'll change your life. It'll change your life. subscribe to this at Oskarba's

Turbubial brilliance, it will change your life. I thought you were going to say, what's the thing that Natalie Portman says in May December? And I was like, well, here's a list of five things that knocked me off my ass that come out of her mouth in that movie. Natalie Portman in May December says Vithev Askabov. Please go subscribe.

Listen to the session. Tracking the last month. Lisp throughout the course of that movie is so fascinating. The way she picks it up and then puts it away later on, it's so good. The moments where she is not the character trying to play the character that Julianne Moore is playing, but the moments that it feels like Natalie Portman is trying to do Julianne Moore mind flowing. Well, and also, like, add into that, the added twist that Natalie Portman has a Lisp. You know what I mean? in real life.

Like, that's the most, like, wild thing. So it's, like, acting, on acting, on acting, you know, like this, like, nesting doll. It's amazing. Listeners, if you weren't able to catch it in theaters by the time this episode airs, May December is on Netflix. Do yourself a treat and watch the best movie of the year. It's so good. It is your number one of the year.

That's interesting. Not, no, nothing's pushing it out. Really? In a year that I think we've had at least three. outright bona fide masterpieces, it's easily my number one. There's nothing that's lurking out there that you think has the potential to knock it out. I mean, at this point, I haven't seen poor things. I haven't seen, obviously, the Iron Claw, but I just, I don't know if anything's going to do as much as,

that I haven't seen is going to do as much as May desper. I'm excited to see it again. There's so many, it's very, it's a rich text. It's so interesting that some of the reaction to it are like, oh, this. is Todd Haynes doing, like, a TV movie, like, and, and, like, part of that is intentional, but, like, it's, it's, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a rich, rich, text, yes, exactly. It's a rich, text about straight society and how, this is my favorite Chris Bugaboo here is that Chris is like, this movie is an indictment of straight society, which is, I feel like, your highest, your highest praise for a movie is if it can be an indictment of straight society. I love it. There was something recently that we talked about We were like, this is about how straight society in the suburbs are killing Are, are, will kill a person

Will to live as well as not not oh it was hereditary That's right, that was the secret message of hereditary That you're like the suburbs are toxic The nuclear unit is toxic Right, right, right, yes Not not some of the nest is, well I was going to say, speaking of The Nest is a movie, I think, I wonder if it'll be the only happy ending Sean Durkin ever makes. And in a way, like, even that's qualified because it's like, you go through some shit in this movie to get to the happy ending.

But like, spoiler alert, the end of the movie is literally the family finally unified together around the table. And I don't feel like that stock is like, it's a nuclear unit that it's like, oh, thank God, they managed to figure it out and stay together. and it's not. I don't feel like it's mired in a lot of, you know, should I hate. I mentioned that our friend Richard Lawson really loved this movie, and I read his Vanity Fair Review last night, and he mentions that, that he had seen it at Sundance, and it had presented itself as this very sort of, like, dark and cynical movie, and then he had mentioned that seeing it again in the fall after, you know, the realities of COVID had sort of settled in. And he's I was able to find the optimism in that finale where, you know, despite all of this, you know,

happening, they are still together. They are still in the same room and bonded to each other. And no matter, you know, what resentments and what sort of, you know, situation that they're in, that somehow there is some kind of, you know, twisted optimism at the end there. And it is very apparent when you see that. And it's just like, oh, and they mentioned, like, the actors did mention that, too, when they did press for it. And Durkan mentioned it too. And you're right when you compare it to the ending of Martha Marcy May Marlene, which is so unsettling. Which is just like you will never know peace again. Yeah, exactly, exactly, exactly right. So I guess we'll see what the Iron Clause ending is like and whether, what the tiebreaker is on that one. Can't imagine that it's going to be uplifting. But you would think that too, as you're watching, the nest, so you never really know. You never really know. That's what I love about him as a filmmaker. He throws you those curveballs. These two lead performances as well. I think Carrie Coon was my best actress winner of this

year. Now I got to go and see, now that you've mentioned that, because if she wasn't my number one, she was up there. Hold on a second. Mm-hmm. Jude Law is also great. We've talked at length in previous episodes about how the best Jude Law is, you know, a man who's over his head or not as capable or smart as he thinks he is, but is putting on the veneer of capability. Does this performance and this role remind you of him in I Heart Huckabee's or what? Like, genuinely. One million percent. It's like if his I Heart Huckabee's character is the, like, underachiever, but more charming. This is the less charming achiever.

Yeah, basically. Yeah. All right. So I'm looking at the, it's nice that I have the Blankies wiki page that I can refer to when I wonder, because I have my master list, but that sort of has kind of gotten a little bit more disorganized over the last few years. a master list, just that I can refer to for the efforts of this podcast. Yeah. Yeah, David Sims and I both had Carrie Coon in the Nest as our number one. I was Carrie Coon in the Nest, Julia Gardner in the Assistant, Francis McDormand in Nomadland, Carrie Mulligan and Promising Young Woman, and Haley Bennett in Swallow. That was my top five. Great call.

Haley Bennett is great in that movie. I remember that was like, that was a fifth slot that I was really, really wrestling with. Well, I, like, badgered you to watch that. Yes, you did. Yes. She swallows. What if someone swallowed things? Yeah, she's tremendous.

Things that just being like holding it up to a camera, being like, she's going to swallow this makes you want to leap out of your skin? Just like a pushpin. Yeah. Yeah. I'm glad I had the, I'm glad I was on the ball, though, with Carrie Coon in the mess. Like, it's, it's, oh, it's such a good performance. But the two of them together. genuinely, um, it's, it's a great, like you said, it's a great flavor of Jude Law.

Two people you wouldn't think have, would have chemistry, but do actually have a lot of chemistry. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And do make sense in this movie? Jude Law is at an interesting point in his career when he does this movie, too. So he, um... He's on an upswing, kind of. He came back at least into popular culture, even if it was things that weren't beloved, like, Fantastic Beast and Captain Marvel. Right. Right. He's, you know, at least out there in the public again. And I think people were also like, wait, Jude Law is even hotter than before. Uh-huh.

Uh-huh. He's doing things like young Pope. That's right. Oh, my God. What if the Pope was young and hot? Like, um... What if the Pope wore a speedo? If the Pope were Spito.

Um, uh, my favorite joke back then that I would say always and nobody would ever laugh, and probably rightly so, was when the two popes came out and I would just be like, a four quad photo of Anthony Hopkins, Jonathan Price, Jude Law, and, oh, who was the second season, Malcovich, and it was like one pope, two pope, young pope, new pope, like, which, come on, that's not bad. That's not bad. You got to give it to me. Listeners, send horn sounds to Joe Reed, please. Do you have like prices right? Trombones. Trombones, twos. Tomatoes, tomones, trombones, trombones, trombones. You can't say tomatoes, tomatoes, tomatoes on Thanksgiving weekend and not have me think. I got beans, greens, potatoes, tomatoes, chicken, turkey.

Have you ever seen that? Maybe. Maybe. We're doing this live. We're doing this live. I'm sending you, I got beans, greens, potatoes, tomatoes, and you're going to react to it live on the podcast. It's going to be a moment. Okay.

Hold on. Hold on. So this was like, this was like pre-Tik-Tac, but this is sort of like the only thing with a TikTok ethos. This was like a, there we go. Before pointing at words, culture became a thing. Right. Okay. So, it's kind of self-explanatory, but for our listeners,

there's a video and a remix out there of a pastor or a preacher of some kind. And her name, shoot, she was on Wendy Williams. And now, and now. is it Shirley Caesar? I think her name is Shirley Caesar. This very notable pastor giving this very like theatrical sermon and it's so good that it got remixed for social media and it is my favorite thing.

Second only maybe to the guy who goes into the Wendy's and tries to start an argument with the cashier and all the other Wendy's clerks come, like, to her defense. Have you ever seen that? That one will do after. That's my favorite Christmas question. Oh, I've seen the looking one. Yeah, but this is what it's part of. All right, so are you watching? Chris is watching. Very excited. I'll give you a play-by-play of Chris's face. Lamb, beans, greens, potatoes, tomatoes,

chicken, turkeys, Oh, oh. Yes, yes. Oh, oh. She's got beans, greens, potatoes, tomatoes, chicken turkey. Oh. Chicken turkey.

This is what Carrie Coon should have been dancing. 100%. Yes. Not a cover of, don't leave me this way. Yeah. I'll edit this into the episode. It's so good. Every Thanksgiving, I have to watch it at least more.

Enterprising listeners, edit Carrie Coon dancing to this song. Please do. Edit Carrie Coon dancing to... I got beans, greens, potatoes, tomatoes. Yes. All right, I'm glad we went. I'm glad you got to experience that. Everybody should. Okay.

We should get into the 60-second plot to discuss. We should. Because if we are going so far afield that we are doing beans, greens, potatoes, tomatoes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We got to rein it back in. All right. Okay. So, listeners, we are here talking about the...

The Nest, written and directed by Sean Durkin, starring Carrie Coon, Jude Law, Charlie Shotwell, Una Roche, Adelaq, Tarr, Michael Colkin, and Anne Reid in one scene. With Anne Reed and Michael Culkin, I think, is what the credit block is, which is pretty good. Yeah. Joseph Reed, are you ready with a 60-second plot description? So I didn't prepare. So this is going to be another. Joe wings it and fails miserably, so this will be fun.

You can't get this in 60 seconds. I don't know. I mean, 75 seconds even. All right. Not a lot of plot. All right. Your 60 second plot description for, The Nest starts now. All right.

So it's about 1986. Rory and Allison are a married couple living in New York City with their two kids. And he's a works in finance and talks a good game. But she already kind of doesn't trust him. And when he suggested they move to London to better his business prospects, She sort of side-eyes him, but she goes anyway. And they buy this, like, mansion in Surrey that is, like, way too big for all of them. And it has these, like, dark corridors.

And it's this big horse farm. And he wants her to, like, start a horse farm and train horses so that she'll be happy. And he just wants them to project this air of success. But it's so empty. And he's terrible at business. And they keep running out of money. And then all of a sudden, the horse dies. And then all of a sudden, strange noises happen in the house.

And then all of a sudden, like, the kids are all being mean. to her and she says, you're like strangers to me. And the marriage starts to fall apart. And she leaves, she embarrasses him at many dinners and goes and dances to don't leave me this way. And they bury the horse, but the horse like unburies itself because of like gas pockets or also maybe haunting. But what's haunting them is capitalism. And the kids throw a party and you think something bad's going to happen, but nothing bad really happens. And then Judelaw gets kicked out of a taxi because he doesn't have any money and he has to walk all the way home. And by the time he shows up, morning and they're at the dinner table and everything has gone wrong, but they have breakfast

together, and you get the sense that they're going to stay together for better or for worse, but probably not in this mansion that they cannot afford the end. All right. Just a hair over 30 seconds over. All right. That's fine. I got everything, right? His mom, I guess.

I didn't mention the fact that, like, you go to see his mom. Right. The son is bullied. Judelaw goes to see his mom, and you get the sense that, like, this sort of striving to better his class has been a thing that's been, you know, driving him all of this time, and he doesn't seem like, it makes him a little bit more, if not relatable, than like, pitiable, you know what I mean? Where he's obviously...

Anne Reid is really, like, kind of tough on him in a way that's just like, you can understand where she's coming from because she's, like, oh, you've essentially abandoned me. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because you're embarrassed. But then also, like, you can see why you might want to cut out this really neat woman. And she, Carrie Coon has an interesting relationship with her mother who, like, at one point, she's like, oh, I'm going to miss you. And she's like, of course you, of course you will. She's like, I can't remember what the full line was, but she's like, and I'm a really good time.

Like, it sounds like this is like a fun mom situation. Wendy Cruison plays her mom, too. Wendy Cruison's great. It's one scene and she's fantastic. And so you get a little bit of a sense of Carrie Coon's upbringing, and she, you know, did not come from money either. But she then has sort of like developed a distrust of it in concert with, like, she's obviously she wears the furs and she's, you know, she trains the horses and all that. But she has developed a mistrust of their ability. to earn and keep this money.

And I think that's what... Because we eventually learned, too, that she has previously bought him out. Yes. In times before what we've seen in the movie. Right. And so I think that plays into this idea that, like, this house plays as haunted. The thing that Durkin does with this movie is he films it like a haunted house movie or like a horror movie, even though nothing actually...

The text of this movie is not horror. They had a very interesting time trying to market this movie. where everybody tried to call this a psychological thriller. And Sean Durkin is like, stop saying thriller. You're going to make people expect a thriller, and they're not going to get it. And I bet you this movie... Some of the early Sundance reviews were even disappointed. Like, is this supposed to be a ghost story?

And they just kind of didn't... If this had played theatrically, if it was in a non-COVID year, and it played theatrically, the cinema scores would have been really bad, I think, for this movie. If IFC even does cinema score, which we'll get into IFC. Yeah, yes, yes. And, but I think that's, but like, I eat that kind of shit up, you know what I mean? Like, this is a movie that's kind of made for me that, like, plays with genre that, you know, tries to push some kind of, like, overarching feeling of dread.

And I like that so much better than a horror, like a legit horror movie that plays, too reticent to show you the thing. Whereas like, give me this instead. Give me something that is not a horror story, but you film it as such because that plays into the themes of the movie. Oh, I love it. It's a drama where, like, a family is very close to completely falling apart. Yes.

And rather than everyone is, everyone's aware of the problems, but rather than the awareness that this family could, like, disinformation. integrate in, you know, very short amount of time. It's this idea of feeling something wrong, but not knowing what it is and it surrounds you and it like overtakes your day and such. And like that feels very much like it would work as a ghost story. Well, you look at the setting for this movie, this big sort of manner, this country house in Surrey and whatnot. And there's that the moment that I always come back to in this movie is she's arguing with, she's yelling up the stairs at her kids for something. Like she's super stressed and she's yelling at them and, you know, someone didn't do something.

And the daughter is being a teenage girl who has no time for her mother and she kind of, you know. Less time for her brother. Well, right. She kind of just like can't stand anybody. And Carrie Coon eventually just sort of yells up like. you're all strangers to me. Like, what's going on? You're all strangers to me. And to me, that is also playing on this. Like, what do we think of these big sort of country mansions? Like, this kind of turn of the screw kind of a thing, right? You're not my children.

You know, the others, that kind of a thing. Where these ghost stories happen, where these children are replaced. And of course, that's the metaphor of those things, is I can't relate to my children. I don't know, you know, what's going on with them. And in this case, Durkin sort of reverse engineers that, right? Where it's like the trappings of the horror story are there. But it's ultimately what's, you know, what's more dominant is what's on the page. It's like it is just, in fact, a mother and a daughter who are not able to communicate right now because of where they are in their lives.

And the mom is angry about everything and the daughter is going through teenage girl emotions, and that then becomes this window into this horror imagery. And, ugh, it's so well done. But also this, like, English Manor Mansion, whatever you want to call it, it, it plays into the, like, ghostliness of it. It's like the least pleasing brown home you've ever seen. You can't go more than, like, a foot in front of your face before it gets too dark to see the end of the hall, like that kind of thing, yeah. Like, all that's missing is someone walking around

with a giant candelabra. But they can't afford any butlers or anything that this house is clearly in need of because of what it is. And I think, as much as it's representative of these horror elements, I do think that without even, you know,

I think we've seen so many movies about well, and we're going to continue to see them because it's, you know, economic disparities and, like, climbing up class is such a, you know, huge part of our, like, wider culture and conversations we're having. But I think that this is one of the movies that does it best because I feel like it's much subtler. It's just being in this space that they are not equipped to take care of, that they are not in the lifestyle of, a lot. alone projects it. And it's the mansion that they chose for the movie couldn't have been chosen better because you hear, we're going to go live in this English estate and it's going to be yada yada. And you have all of these fantasy versions in your head. And then they go into this house,

which like, while stately and beautiful is kind of drab. It's not, it's not the vision you see in your head when you think of this type of aspirational lifestyle. Yeah. Well, and the fact that like Jude Law buys this house because of he wants it to, he wants to project an air of success, not only to people he's working with, but like mostly to his family. Like, it's not like he has business people over to his house ever. Those are, that's accomplished via like these fancy dinners and whatever. And we'll talk about the fancy dinners because, like, I can't wait. But, um, but the house is mostly to project this air of success.

to his wife and to his kids and to convince his wife and kids that he's doing better than he is and to impress them. And that's kind of amazing because it's just like at what level, who can you be real with in your entire life? You have nobody then. You're trying to impress everybody. You're trying to upsell everybody on this vision of yourself as success, which is what makes me think of Brad Stand in Iard Huckabees because that's basically what he's doing in that movie. But these dinners, so he'll go out to business dinners with whoever, and he's trying to get them to do a deal with him or, you know, in some way impress them, whether it's his boss or whatever. And she, Carrie Coon, very quickly begins to realize that, like, oh, there is a desperation in my husband that is unappealing when it gets into these sort of situations. and she kind of fights back in this very sort of like caged kind of way where it's just like,

okay, well, I can't do anything except for act out in my dinner order. You know what I mean? And so there's that scene where she orders like, it's not quite- I can embarrass you in public, but- Yes. It's the only thing I can do. She's drinking in a restaurant. she's ordering, and does she call him My Bride or something?

Yes. She, to the waiter, calls him something that's, like, diminishing. And then when the waiter sort of starts to glance at him, because she orders, like, 12 things and the Red Snapper and three bottles of wine. And then she's like, don't look at him. I gave you our order. Like, you know, and essentially just like big dogs, her husband at the table, which is amazing. And when the waiter arrives at the wine to give, you know, the tasting to see if it's okay. She drinks it straight from the bottle.

And especially, I think, that scene, there's a danger in the way that this character is written, that it would be performed ridiculous or someone who is maybe living too fabulously, you know, something. She could be really absurd. And I think there is a, not even downplaying, but there is a groundedness to what Carrie Coon is doing that I think is absolutely brilliant and makes the scene funny. makes her a little scary and just completely disarming for her husband and the audience. She's a combatant in those scenes.

She's not just acting out. She's not just like flailing. She's a combatant in those scenes. She also smokes cigarettes with all five of her fingers. Like, it's amazing. She, like, has the whole, like, did you notice that? The way she smokes was just, like, the whole hand is up to her face. And she, like, puts the-

haven't gone to full Adele or full stricent, but like they're getting there. Yeah. And then the one dinner where she like flatly laughs in his face when he's talking about they want to buy a pieter and she's like

and it genuinely the laughter does feel somewhat spontaneous because she's like, you've got to be fucking kidding me. We can't afford anything and you're talking about we're going to get a pieter. And so she leaves the dinner, she gives her fur coat away, and then she walks home, and on the way, she stops into this

nightclub and gets her whole damn life to, I can't remember who- Poundage and Tonics. Yes, Poundage and Tonics and Dancing to a remix of Thelma Houston's, Don't Leave Me This Way. And that and the These Dreams sound drop at the beginning, I'm like, that's the only two sounds. drops I need in this movie and there's a song drops in this movie. They're so good. God bless. Meanwhile, she's going through the stuff with her horse. He buys her a horse and the horse immediately is having problems. And it goes through basically like some type of seizure and they have to put the horse down and they bury it on their property. Yes. And so she's distraught about this. And he's just distraught that, you know, somebody sold him a bad horse or

whatever. And he can't see that his wife is funneling all of her, everything that she is upset and anxious about into this situation with the horse. Right. Which is funny because it's a situation that he kind of created where he brings her to England, but she doesn't really want to go. Like, she says she doesn't really want to go. He convinces her that they should move to England. He sets her up and he's like, you should start a horse farm. Like, that will be the thing that you do to keep yourself busy while I am making us a financial success. And he also wants her to come up with her own stream of income because he's probably going to need it at some point. But he's also given her essentially what can be sold or like told as like this highfalutin like thing

that she can say at cocktail parties like status I raise horses blah blah blah blah blah and she immediately disarms that when people are like oh what do you do and she's like i shovel shit yeah yeah again she's coming for battle all right chris get off your horse we are here to talk about the vulture movie fantasy league How dare you bring up my dead horse again? All due respect to the Gotham's, the I think precursor season, is finally here. We have the New York Film Critics Circle Awards for 2023, and they have delivered points. Now, here's the thing about awards points.

They don't start off very big, right? These are 20 point and 10 points, you know, little chunks that you're going to get for these awards, but they do accumulate, and they do accumulate, and eventually they're going to be the difference in these standings as we go. Chris, top line reactions to the New York Film Critic Circle Awards for this year. I'm so happy about, I mean, I'm happy about, I would say, most of these wins. But say it. Most happy for the Franz Rogalsky win. Of course you are.

I mean, especially long time listeners know I am over the moon that it looks like. like Lily Gladstone is our frontrunner this year, obviously. For best actors, yes. But France, I mean, the Franz Rogowski win also made me happy that New York is definitely going to go their own way with at least one of these categories. I think critics groups should always be doing something distinctive that says the point of view of their membership, whatever. I don't want to see like these homogenous winners with critics wins and such.

But France Rogalsky, one of my favorites. favorite performances of the year in passages now on Mooby. What a great win. What a great win. And was it you that I was talking to that observed that, like, usually this group, when they go their own way or they make an advocacy pick to, like, draw attention to a performance, they usually choose an actress or supporting actress win? Usually, yes.

I think... Yes. Yes. I was glad that they decided to be adventurous in lead actor. feels like that's not a direction. Usually in New York film critics, their tendency, as of late, has been Regina Hall for Best Actress, Tiffany Haddish, for supporting actress. Last year was Kiki Palmer for supporting actress.

And all of those are great and wonderful, but I think it's really kind of fun and interesting, that Lily Gladstone winning actress for Killers of the Flower Moon, Dividejoy Randolph, Divine Joy Randolph for holdovers, those are, they're not boring, but they are like within the realm of what people are predicting right now, same with Charles Melton. Those are performances that are going to do well all season long. My thing now is I sort of like, much as I think Charles Melton and Divine Joy Randolph are very deserving winners for supporting actor and supporting actress, I do hope that there is some variety as those critics award, the further critics awards go in the supporting categories.

I do think it helps. I mean, Charles Melton also won Gotham this year. it's, you know, debatable how much Gotham. But I think it's an indication of just, like, how much people are really impressed by that performance. I think he is a shoe-in for an Oscar nomination. It really does help Charles Mountain get an Oscar nomination now getting that... I think he's...

I think I would be shocked if he doesn't at this point. Like, I think he could not win another precursor Critics Prize, and I think he could still... He's still going to be solidly in there. But best... It shows... The Franz Worgowski win for Passages really shows that, like, best actor is kind of...

in a free-for-all right now, and I kind of love that. It's Raghowski, Killian Murphy, Paul Giamatti. I think Leo's going to probably get nominated for Killers of the Flower Moon. We had this conversation on one of our call-ins over on the Patreon that, like, best actor is hard to call a front-runner right now, and like any front-runner you would maybe place a name on does feel arbitrary at this point, but that could change at any minute. Interesting that Killers of the Flower Moon takes their best film prize, only four years after the Irishman won best film. Interesting, if only that my thought was because Scorsese had won best film only four years ago, that they might do director for Scorsese this year, but give best film to an Oppenheimer or my prediction at the last minute was the zone of interest, especially once. They gave international films to...

And lost international film at Gotham. Yeah. Lost International Film to The Anatomy of a Fall. But to me, my reading of the Tea Leaves in American critics is that zone of interest seems to be the more, the more hardcore choice. Whereas, like, anatomy of a fall seems a little bit more broadly appealing, whereas, like, the... I imagine Anatomy of a Fall will do just fine winning international film prize. for Critics Awards, even though it's not competing for the Oscar. Yeah, that's true.

The fact that it isn't competing for the Oscar is really interesting, but I think that also means. It's such an easy consensus movie. I like it better than you do, I will say. Yeah, yeah. I don't dislike the movie. I'm just not as over the moon with it, and I've accepted I'm not as over the moon with it, finally, though I still am a huge fan of Sandra Hoolers' performance. You letterboxed recently that.

that Justine Triet is holding Aliche Roarockers' Palm Door. I think that's where I'm at. At least Aliche's or Wes Anderson's. I mean, that's how I feel about the Sears Cairns movies. Christopher Nolan wins Best Director for Oppenheimer. I think, in general, I think Oppenheimer and Nolan are still probably the frontrunners, Although I definitely think it's much more of a scrum that it was before. I kind of expected Killers of the Flower Moon to get a little bit more of a taken-for-granted reaction as of this far.

And right now that is not the case. It's still very early. But, like, I'm very encouraged by both the popular reception to killers and the critical reception. So I still don't think it's going to win best director, best picture. But, like, it's going to be a big contender. It's going to win something. I who am maybe the Oscar Oppenheimer skeptic. I feel like I'm only one. In terms of winning things, I think it's going to get a ton of nominations. But in terms of like winning best picture. I'm going to end up winning a bet with you about something about Oppenheimer along the way. I feel like. You say this because you're going to lose our survivor bet. You are going to lose. What's our survivor bet again? Our survivor bet is if Jake makes it to the finale that he wins. I'm winning that. So what, wait, what? What My dude, you're losing that $20.

What does Jake have to do for me to win that $20? Win the show? He has to, if he makes it, if he, if he doesn't make it to the finale, which means he gets eliminated next week, then there's no bet. But if he is in the finale, he went, he has to win for you to win $20. He's not going to win. What if he makes the final episode, but not the final tribal council? What if he's eliminated before the final tribal council? I get $20.

Okay. No. All right. I'm still, I'm still very comfortable with that. So Jake needs to win for me to win the bet. Yes. Okay. I'm comfortable with that. If Jake goes home basically this week, then it's a no bet. Neither of us lose or win money. Okay. All right. I think you are massively underestimating Jake's appeal with this jury. They did not show- I think you are massively overestimating his esteem within this jury. In this past episode, they showed a shot of the jurors, Kelly and Kendra and What's His Face, all were leaning to each other being like, I really feel for Jake right now.

They did not do that for nothing. That doesn't mean that they're going to give him a vote for him to win a million dollars. I don't think they respect his game. I'm just saying. All right. What else about, speaking of being the Oppenheimer skeptic, you were the one in our group chat who did not think that Hoytta van Hoitima deserved the best cinematography prize. I'm just saying. And I know other filmmakers have made this complaint about Christopher Nolan.

And I just think when you watch that movie and the aspect ratio can change like multiple times within 30 seconds, it just tries me crazy. And you can tell when it switches from regular film stock to IMAX film stock in a way that like I just find as an experience somewhat jarring. And I say this really, really liking that movie. That's just, like, I don't get behind. And, like, cinematography, there's so many options this year. What would you, where would you lean, cinematography-wise? Either of Rodrigo Prieto's movies. Which are May December and Killers of the Flower Moon?

No, Killers of the Flower Moon and Barbie. Oh, and Barbie. Who did May December? May December is Christoph Levelle Yes, thank you Because Ed Lachman was not available He had like surgery or something

Right His usual DP What else do I have on my long list for cinematography? I haven't made my long list yet I might do that this weekend I mean asteroid city Sure Something like

Zone of Interest is as much of it is a divisive movie. It is a divisive movie when you ask people what they think about how that movie was shot. Yeah. Yeah. And then last one,

before we move on to the box office, 30 seconds to make your case for Past Lives, not sweeping the best first film awards like they're going to anyway. There are so many... Past Lives is absolutely going to be sweet. It won best film at

the Gothams, but it won the first films at New York Film Critics. It is going to steamroll the Independent Spirit Awards. It's going to steam roll critics prizes for Best First Film, too. Yeah. And I think partly because it is a consensus choice, I was so happy that A.V. Rockwell won the debut director prize at Gotham. I love a thousand and one.

We've been, you still have to catch up to it. We've been advocating for 1001 regularly. But there's a lot of other options. there's Raven Jackson for all I can never say this title of this movie right but Alder Rhodes Taste of Salts. Yes. Yes. I just think that there's more options in this. I mean like I I'm somewhat passionate about first, you know, and like rooting for other people.

But like I also think that that's a category that we should never have a singular like move. And it seems to kind of happen every year. It does seem to kind of happen every year. This is why I advocate for it as an Oscar category, because I think it would encourage more variety in precursors. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Box office.

Let's talk about it. Over the Thanksgiving break, over the Thanksgiving weekend, that ballot of songbirds and snakes really, like, hung in there. Like, it had stickier staying power than I thought it is right now. as of the Thanksgiving weekend, it was just on the verge of going over 100. It certainly must have gone over 100 by now. Yes. It's, yes, domestic, it's right now at 110 million. It's chugging along.

Still going to be number two to Beyonce this weekend. Yeah, have you been following that along? I haven't tuned out the Beyonce thing, but there is a degree of white noise to every homosexual around me vibrating on a Beyonce level that I am. Great movie. I had a wonderful time. I believe you. I believe you.

Napoleon beat out Wish over Thanksgiving, which I think was the big surprise. Just how badly wish did, just how bad of a year Disney is having, that nothing is going well. And like even a like long as hell historical epic is going to beat out the big family film of the weekend.

Dave Gonzalez is our good friend who we, of course, thank every weekend whose support we could not adequately. Literally could not do the show without Dave. Exactly. Mentioned on Twitter, which is not a novel observation, but one I think people probably should be making a little bit more, which is that

maybe we do put this on the fact that that Disney Plus really took away the theatrical imperative for people seeing these movies. And my thing is, especially when you talk about, and like, the pandemic's impact cannot be overestimated. This was obviously a thing that like people couldn't go to the movies for a very long time. And like that was a thing. But when families who used to spend money to buy four tickets to see a show are now paying one price a month later so that everybody can gather in the same living room and watch a movie. Even if you have to pay $30 to rent a movie at all. Even for PVOD, right. Even for PVOD, you're coming out on the losing end of that. And like, so you have disincentivized the theatrical.

You have overemphasized Disney Plus. And as many people were saying back when they were doing it, you are sacrificing a cash cow in theatrical in order to prop up something that does not make you money in your streaming platform. The vault no longer exists. and like they were going to open it like opening up the vault is a you know the artificial scarcity that Disney created was not a thing that most studios did and like was not a thing that I probably was happy with like I don't know if you need to be that extreme about it in terms of like we have a vault or whatever but creating the expectation that new movies can just be like weighted out in the span of only a few weeks you have absolutely like parents can put their kids off for a few weeks. parents also wonder like but you have to get out of the house sometimes you have to get the kids out of the house like i remember having the conversation the realization uh with my mother because like i remember like my dad would take me to the movies on christmas eve when i was a young kid and i remember saying that to my mom and she's like yeah how do you think your christmas presents got wrapped because we had to to get you out of the house so that that could be done. So, like, I just wonder

what's supplementing that. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Anyway, last thoughts on, we're going to make this quick update so we can get you back to the nest because, but everybody's hungry for that nest. Everybody's hungry for that nest. Anyway,

go and check out vulture.com slash movies-league to see current standings. You can look at where you situate yourself in the general scoreboard, in the Gary's League scoreboard. If you've made yourself a different league with your friends and you want to see who is at the top of the charts for that,

go to it. You can also check out links to our draft guide, and you can sign up for the newsletter. Every week I am sending out updates in newsletter form, and you can enjoy that. It's been a good time. It's been very fun. we are getting into, I think, the real fun time of the year.

Once we hit like Golden Globe nominations, we are going to be off to the races. Which are next week? Well, this week as of airing, but you'll hear us talk about it next week. pertinent to our conversations we've been having in these updates, Chris. I think I'm going to be on the right side of history with Wonka. Of loving it? My enthusiasm for Wonka appears to be the right course of action.

And I am hearing good things. Did you draft Wonka? No. But I'm just saying that of the two of us, one of us was the Wonka skeptic and one of us was the Wonka optimist. And I feel like I am going to be vindicated. When you talk about selective pop-optimism, I just want to brandish a Wonka sign in your face. Well, yes. that is how selective pop-timism works.

Yes, but you complain about other people's selective optimism. Right. And, like, your selective optimism right now is one-down. And I'm like, what are you complaining about that? My selective optimism is better and theirs is worse. That is, yes, I agree. Yeah, you're right. I have no optimism to be had about anything.

I am a genuine enjoyer of things and a genuine dissenter of things. That is, we're not, we don't have time to talk, to go into a, to a conversation about I'm just trying to grind your gears anyway, anyway. Yes, you are. Yes, you are. All right. Anyway, enjoy our conversation about the nest where Carrie Coon grinds her gears

on the dance floor to a cover of Don't Leave You This Way and all is right with the world. We'll talk to you next week. And now I'm the one just walking home. Bye. That horse-bearing scene, I think I read somewhere I did a bunch of reading up on Sean Durkin that apparently he was like, because he was raised in, he was born in Canada, but he moved to England, but he's also lived in the United States. He's sort of moved around a lot. But I guess I think it was when he was living in London or in England when he was a kid, came across in a field like a mound of dirt atop a buried horse or whatever and was never able to sort of forget.

that, which I imagine not. Apparently, I read in one article that, like, his real-life mother was trained horses and his, you know, his real-life father, I think, did work in finance or something like that. So, like, if there's some degree of autobiography in the setup to this movie, I don't think it was quite so harrowing as it turns out here. But he had, like, he had made Martha Marcy and May Marlene in 2011 because mostly he was fascinated by things like the Manson family murders and stuff like that, which obviously you can see in that movie. He had worked for a casting director before that. He had sort of worked as a producer

on a bunch of films. He'd gone to NYU Film School and had formed this sort of filmmaking partnership with Antonio Campos and Josh Mond and sort of they helped each other with their movies. And the one story about him working with the casting director on casting the holiday. He talks about accompanying Nancy Myers to, I think it's either they go to Eli Wallach's house or they invite Eli Wallach to come to her house and she has him like audition essentially for him, like reading a scene from the holiday, which is kind of amazing. But anyway, so he makes Martha Marcy May Marlene. He wins the directing award at Sundance. It's a movie that doesn't end up getting any Oscar nominations, which is why we had an episode on it. Go back and

listen to it. It's a good one. And, but he sort of emerges as this, like, very exciting young director. And then in the ensuing nine years, they sort of get swelled up. He does this TV series in England for Channel 4 called Southcliff with Sean Harris. And that, you know, takes up some of his time. And then he spent a very long time. trying to get one of the competing Janice Joplin biopics off the ground. This one around 2017, it sort of got announced that it was going to be happening. He was going to be directing Michelle Williams. This is the Janus biopic that did have the rights to her music, which is not the one that

Amy Adams was attached to at one point, which was also the one that Renee Zellweger was attached to at one point. This was the one that had, through the years, been attached to people like Ilyon Douglas, not Iliana Douglas, Lily Taylor. I'm getting my 90s indie queens mixed up. But this Michelle Williams movie was apparently really, you know, got announced in deadline and all of this. And I haven't read anything about how it fell apart and just sort of like all Janus biopics do. All of a sudden, you're just like, oh, I guess that one's happening. You got to go full fictional Janus, like the Rose, to get it made. There you go. There you go. Or Jackie Jormpjomp for 30 Rock.

That was such an interesting inside joke that, you know what I mean? That, like, of all things, it was like this Janice Joplin biopic that could never get made. So that doesn't happen. And then I guess he pivots to making The Nest, which then gets first seen at Sundance in 2020. So it is kind of a miracle that we're only getting, you know, we only have to wait another three or so years for his next movie for the Iron Claw. I think he's a tremendously exciting filmmaker, but he's also done television. I wanted to talk about Dead Ringers, which he directed the first.

I still have to finish. The first two episodes and then co-directed the sixth, which is the final episode. And it was also executive producer on it. So he had, he seemingly had a, he wasn't the showrunner, but he had a strong hand, I think, in developing that show. The aesthetic of that show feels very, very Sean Dirkin. So much of Dead Ringers is horror that isn't horror. The second episode of that show is the one where... So Rachel Weiss plays the twin gynecologists.

It's a remake of, obviously, the Cronenberg movie, which was based on a book, which was based on a real-life pair of twins. So Rachel Weiss plays the twin gynecologist. one is more altruistic, one is more sort of terrifyingly amoral, and they need, they want to start this birthing clinic, that's sort of their dream. And so to do that, they have to get financing, and that sort of leads to these moral compromises that they have to make, which ultimately leads them to Jennifer Ely, who is this like the kind of active head of this Sackler-esque family that, you know, in the world of this show has started the, you know,

opioid epidemic. And she is completely, you know, pitiless to that. And is Jennifer Ely is so fucking good on the show. This is maybe my number one reason why I want you to watch this show, Chris, because I mean, I loved her in the first episode. Fucking freak out. So the second episode, which Durkin also directed, they go to Jennifer Ely's home on, I believe it's Long Island.

this sort of mansion on Long Island, and she meets her whole family slash series of hangers on. She's got a wife, she's got an ex-wife, and a bunch of children. The ex-wife is remarried to this sort of like very milk-toast man. She's got this lawyer who is terrifying. She's got these like artist friends. It is absolutely, it's another one where it's just like it's a haunted house movie that has no actual horror in it. but it is, like, absolutely the most terrifying vision of, like, amoral wealth that you could imagine, and it's so very Sean Durk.

And Karen Kusama also directs an episode later in the season where they go to a different mansion full of, you know, horrible old money that, like, that, that, that, that, that becomes this horror movie. And for those two episodes alone, which can kind of do, like, watch the whole thing, but, like, you could also watch those two movies, or those two episodes as kind of stand-alone short films, and they would work. The directing is just that strong. I know some people, I've talked to some people who are like, it's too, like, literally dark. Like, you can't kind of see anything. So I would recommend maybe watching it at night with your blackout curtains drawn, but highly, highly

recommended. It's so, I'm watching that and I'm like, Sean Durkin's so fucking back. You know what I mean? Like, this is so great to watch something like that, because he produced a bunch of things he produced that Dave Franco movie The Rental that I had watched. He produced, he was a producer on the eyes of my mother and Christine. And so, like, had been, you know, doing good work. And he was, of course, a producer before he was a director. So in many ways, that's kind of where it's, it's, you know, it's a part of him, right? This idea that, like, he wants to do his own projects. But I think he probably gets a lot out of helping other people's projects sort of come to fruition from a producer role, which is kind of cool. So, I don't know. I'm monologuing. Save me from myself. Well, because I haven't seen the show. Yeah.

Let's talk a little bit about this, the 2020 Sundance, because like we mentioned, this was the COVID year. So there's a lot of looking to Sundance as movies that already exist that could still be released. The Nest was among them. I think we'll have a separate IFC conversation. The Nest is also maybe harmed in this race by releasing in September, considering that's like six months before the Oscars actually happened. Right, right, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it actually is kind of a good Oscar year for Sundance as a...

It's a great Sundance in general. Like, I look at this lineup, and for as much as like we talk about the memory-holing of 2020 movies, this lineup has multiple movies that I genuinely love. And I know there are movies that you loved even more than I did on this list, too. So I imagine you really like this lineup as well. But you get a mix of a lot of movies that would qualify for our show. But also movies that did do well with the Oscars. I mean, The Father famously debuted here. Minari, which wins both the audience award and the jury prize.

Ends up being the only real thing that A-24 kind of pushes with first cast. kind of in the background. Four, I believe, of the five documentary nominees played here, even though one of them had world premiered previously. Time. Was Dick Johnson a nominee or no? It was not. Collective, that premiered at the previous TIF, but played this festival.

Right. You mentioned Time. also the mole agent and Crip Camp other docs like Boys State that almost were nominated Yep, yep, yep And obviously promising young woman too Which I think is the movie that if the pandemic hadn't happened Because that movie was also supposed to come out in April

That probably wouldn't have any Oscar nominations to its name In an alternate history where the pandemic never happens but I mean I still really like that movie I know where you're in a very um culturally in a very anti emerald finel place right now I think people can calm down like I genuinely just because something like the hatred for saltburn it's like just because something isn't good doesn't mean you need to go all out like I can understand people not like saltburn I liked saltburn with reservations I like saltburn with that I think I've made been able to sort of slot saltburn into an area in my mind where I'm good with it. I think it is a it's not quite as like slick as cruel intentions. There is a sort of, you know, ephemorality to cruel intentions that was like, oh, it's like, you know, it's WB, you know, teen sex, whatever. But like, that's the kind of level that I'm, that I'm getting enjoyment out of saltburn. And I think there is something that is really making people come at that movie very aggressively. I

I think part of it genuinely is that people in between promising young women in this movie found out that I'm Roquefinal comes from money and a really, really feel like they were taken for a ride somehow. People had that problem with promising young woman. People had a lot more problems with promising young woman. While I think... People were mad that she won the Oscar after the fact. The many problems people had with it were more justified, I think, with that movie than this movie. Because, like, this movie, I guess some people, Salpurn to me is like a movie that is legitimately about nothing. like it has it is not about a damn thing there is not something that you can take away like

intentions are so muddled to me but like that's part of having fun with the movie what is the say about class conflict who gives a fuck there are better movies that talk about class conflict than saltburn you know what I mean like I don't I mean I think I think they think that the movie is trying to say something I think promising young woman is maybe trying to say more than saltburn is saying I don't I don't know if there's really an attempt to make some observation, like, to the benefit and detriment of the movie, but, like, it's not, it's not some abomination. And I agree with the people who feel like it's weak in its last act, like, the part where

he, like, explains the whole thing, it's, like, completely unnecessary and kind of, and, like, really dumb. No, it's a better movie if it's not explained. 100%. Because, like, we already know. But also, like, I don't, people are really, really angry. and I don't understand it and I feel like people should probably

But anyway There's not really many villains right now I'm gonna just like tick off I'm gonna tick off a list of the movies from this Sundance lineup that jump out to me And you can give me like your quick like Obviously I know you love the 40 year old version You were a huge evangelizer of that movie

I like that movie Minari was my number one of that year I really loved it Miss Juneteenth Really good movie Nicole Bihari Popahari's great. I was cooler on never rarely sometimes always than most people are, but like that was a big critical hit that year. I was disappointed by nine days.

I really thought I was going to really like it. That's the Edson Oda movie with Winston Duke and Ozzy Beats. What's that? Cool movie. Yeah, I got some stuff going on. I wanted, I wanted more of it. I was bored. I think I was bored by it.

I loved Palm Springs. I know you didn't really like Palm Springs very much. I hated Palm Springs. Palm Springs. That was so, I think it's such a great, uh, mainstream comedy. Um, you liked Shirley quite a bit more than I did. I didn't know what you do with Shirley. Josephine. Love Shirley. Yeah. That was not for me. I think you also liked Zola a lot better. Not a lot better. You love Zola. I liked Zola. I like, I liked Zola a lot. I thought I loved Taylor Page in Zola. Sure. I love Riley Kea on Zola. I thought Riley Kio was incredible. I think that's a better directed movie than written. yeah that's probably true i loved bloody nose empty pockets did you ever see that movie i did not but it's something i want to catch just sort of faux documentary that was um uh presented as a documentary but it was also like performed it's right i loved it i also loved boy state boy state is i think a tremendous movie yeah you didn't really love boy state i loved it i think it's kind of

self-fulfilling in terms of what it's trying to do without really bringing much new and interesting. Self-fulfilling in a way. It's fine. It's fine. It's just like the thesis statement of the movie. It's just like they show up with a camera and they're like, this is our thesis. It's like, well, you're going to fulfill that thesis. Like, I don't know.

Okay. All right. Dick Johnson is Dead gave me such anxiety. One of the best movies of that year. Incredible. Yeah. I couldn't get with it then because of reasons, but maybe I'll like it better now. Time, Garrett Bradley's Time.

I thought was really great. Incredible. Dream Horse played at that Tiff. It did, and it didn't come out for another year, though. Dream Horse. So this Sundance had the last movie I saw in theaters before the pandemic, which was Palm Springs, and the first movie I saw in theaters after the pandemic, which was Dream Horse. That's amazing.

The father, I so liked that movie so much better than I thought I was going to. I really was not expecting to like the father, and I really liked it. I have issues with that movie, but it's good. Oh, God, Four Good Days, the Best Original Song nominee for the Diane Warren song. Again, delayed, but for different reasons. Yeah. Not because of the pandemic. Right.

Did you see the Allison Bree Horse Girl movie? No. That played at that Sundance. You really like Cajillionaire. One of these days I will probably watch Cajillionaire. No, I'm fine with Cajillionaire. I think you will like Cajillionaire. Oh, that's interesting.

Well, that's an interesting little quirk. I've said that to you before. I'm like, that movie's okay, but I think you would really like it. I don't think I realize that you only thought it was okay. That's an interesting recommendation, which is saying, I don't really love this movie. You would probably really love this movie. And I'm now curious to see what that says about how you feel about me. I do think you would like that movie.

I've never seen Dee Reese's the last thing he wanted. That's a movie that we should do. Talk about a memory hole movie. Even at the time, people were like, nope, we will not be. discussing Anne Hathaway and Ben Affleck in the last thing he wanted. Because it's supposed to be a disaster. Yes. Yes.

I mean, I've been like, we should do that as an episode just so that I can see, have an excuse to watch it. Yeah. We eagerly await D. Rees' next movie, though. Yes, we do. Did you see Liz Garbis's Lost Girls with Amy Ryan?

Amy Ryan's good in that. I really liked it. Promising Young Woman, which we mentioned. Did you see Paul Lettony and Uncle Frank, the horrid. Is it bad? I've never seen it. It's horrid. The Alan Ball movie? Yeah. Yes.

Oh, God. You have, I know you don't like Wendy. Ben Sightland's Wendy, which I can't bring myself to much. Yeah, like, you know, the pandemic was a curse to all of us, but a blessing to that movie. I really liked Sarah Colangelo's worth. I thought Stanley Tucci is really good in that movie. I never caught up to that. I liked it a lot.

That was one of those things that, like, nobody bought it, and then Netflix eventually bought it. And at this point, I can't even remember if it was late pandemic or not, but they didn't really do anything for it. Oh, God, this was that, uh, the, that movie Cudius played at the Sundance. Remember the horrible? Yes. It's supposed to be a good movie, but like all the fucking Q-in-on psychos. Yep.

Oh, my God, Brandon Cronenberg's Possessor, one of my favorite movies of that year. That movie has problems. I think if I redid my top 10 that year, Possessor should, should be on it. That, I, I, that's one movie where I, I definitely has stayed in my memory all this time. I think especially after seeing Infinity Pool, I'm less inclined to be generous towards possessor as I might have been at the time,

but that movie has a problem. But Andrea Reisbrough rules in it. Christopher Abbott rules in that movie, too. Like, I love the both of them. I know you're less of a Christopher Abbott person than I am, but I like Christopher Abbott, but I do also feel like at this point it's a schick. I don't know. I think you're wrong about that.

I'm right. That's my theory that I'm right now. What's that? Did you ever watch the gloria's? Oh, God, I did, in fact, watch the gloria's. Not a good movie. Not a good movie, but we appreciate the swing. Yeah.

Did you ever see, sorry, oh, I just had it and lost it. I'm literally looking at the list right now. Oh, the killing of two lovers. I never saw that, but that was supposed to be good. Yeah? Oh. Okay. Sorry.

His house, which is a movie, I keep meaning to go and watch. That was the horror movie. Good horror movie. That was on Netflix. Relic, which I was kind of oversold on, the Natalie Erica James movie with Emily Mortimer. Which did weirdly well this year. It did well with, I believe, the BFAs. We'll talk about the BFAs.

It got a National Board of Review. mention... Yeah. Not my favorite. The Rebecca Hall movie, The Nighthouse, played at this Sundance at midnight. I really ended up liking that a lot. That searchlight held until post... Yeah.

At least the reopening. Kitty Greens, the assistant, which had opened very limitedly just before the pandemic hit. I really liked that a lot. And of course, the Climb, which is the Miley Cyrus biopic,

The Climb. I love that movie. I didn't. I did not see it. I was just making a joke. As I tend to do. Okay, yeah. To be clear, I hated the climb, not the Mila Cyrus. No, there is no Milis Harris movie.

There's just this Milisaris' song. Yeah, but the Hannah Montana movie. Yeah, yeah. Oh, you hated the Hannah Montana movie or you hated the bicyclist movie? I hated the bicycle movie. Okay, okay. It's not really a bicycle movie. It's a bro movie.

Okay. Bros. Who bike? They bike at the beginning of the movie. Okay. It's insufferable. Great Sundance. lineup. I'm going to say it. Of all the terrible things about 2020, I think that's a great Sundance lineup, all told. Would have loved to go on there and caught COVID from everybody

who was... You remember in like March when like things were just shutting down and people were like, oh, I think I got COVID at Sunday. And it's like, no shit fuckers. Like, dark days. Dark days indeed. All right. Can you talk about... Let's talk a little bit about the where the Ness did show up throughout the season. It got to... We've got both two good Gotham nominations for the leading performances. Good for the Gotham. They both lost, however, lost to Riz Ahmed for Sound of Metal and Nicole Bihari for Miss Juneteenth. What are the other nominees?

In lead actor, it's Chadwick Bozeman for Maurene, John McGarrow for First Cow, hell yeah. Jesse Plemons, I'm thinking of ending things. And the other actress nominees are Jesse Buckley. I'm thinking of ending things. Francis McDormand in Nomadland and Yunya-Jun for Minari. The more time I spend away from my thinking of, I'm thinking of ending, I'm thinking of ending things, the more I'm, I'm puzzled by my own reaction to it. Like, I did not care for that movie. And that's not a movie you really want to watch

during COVID. But, like, or kind of ever. Like, every once in a while, I remember that, Like, for as much as I've loved so many Charlie Kaufman things, sometimes I'll watch a Charlie Kaufman thing, and I'm just like, absolutely not. And even something like Synecichy, New York, like, the first time I watched Synecichy, New York, I was in an angry funk for like a week. I was so mad that I watched that movie, and it made me feel as, like, genuinely depressed. It really, really put me in, like, a dark, emotional space for, like, a good, solid week. It made me feel really, really bad about myself.

and I'm thinking of ending things feels like, and so I chalk up Synecichy to like, that's a very personal, you know, project and like, you know, it's full of genuine feeling and emotion and good for that and all that. And then I watch I'm thinking of ending things and I'm like, no, sometimes Charlie Kaufman

just wants to make you feel so bad. And I do feel like sometimes that's the intended result. I mean, I think the difference between those two movies, though those are pretty feel bad movies. Synectiki is a movie about us, and I'm thinking of ending things as a them movie. It's about them.

It's about these, like, toxic masculinity living in their parents' basement dudes who just, like, I remember that that was... I think that is a perspective that I don't necessarily share about that movie, that it's about toxic masculinity. But I remember that was your, like, initial reaction, and I'm kind of, like, fascinated by that take on it. Because I don't know... Which is partly why I'm like, eh, about that movie, because it's just like, we're fucking tired of talking about this by now. Yeah.

I don't know if that's what it's about, though. I mean, I respect that movie more than I like it. Yeah. I do, you know, I have problems with Jesse Buckley, too, but whatever. I suppose I'll get over them. NBR Top Ten Independent Films. This is a very interesting list full of movies that I don't know if I remember all of these movies. driveways was the

what's his name who directed Palm Springs or not Palm Springs, Fire Island, Andrew on, which I still haven't seen, but I would like to because I liked Fire Island. I didn't love it. Yeah. I understand why people love it. I did not. Interesting. Farewell Amor. Don't know it. I still want to catch up to that. That was

a Sundance movie, but I don't think the sun... No, it is the Sundance we're talking about. Yeah. Also an IFC release. What's it about? I believe it's an immigration story. It's currently in the Criterion Collection. Okay. All right. Miss Juneteenth, we discussed.

Good movie. Never rarely, sometimes always. We discussed Relic. We discussed not my favorite. St. Francis, I really liked a lot. St. Francis is a good movie. That's a good movie. People should catch up to St. Francis.

Highly recommended. Not to be confused with what was the horror movie around that same time. St. Maud. St. Maud. Yeah, don't go trying to see St. Francis and see St. Maud instead, like, be very, very... St. Francis is a, is a indie drama about a young woman sort of finding her place, and St. Maud is, well, in many ways, an indie drama about a young woman finding her place,

but it's a very different place. Finding her place within herself. Yes. I should rewatch St. Maud because I was, like, ho-hum about it when I saw it at that tip, and then when it came out, everyone loved it. Talk about a great Jennifer Ely performance. Yousy Yousa. That's literally any Jennifer Ely performance, Joe.

Okay, fine. We mentioned The Climb. I made my joke. You didn't get it. It was fine. I'm not your joke. Yeah. You didn't laugh at it, which is fair enough.

The Outpost. What's the Outpost? It looks like some type of dude movie. I even don't know what this is. And then Wolf Walkers, which was the vessel through which everybody who was sick of Pixar decided to funnel all of their Soul isn't very good Wolfwalkers is a good movie Wolfwalkers is a good movie

but people I think were a little like Wolf Walkers is so good and soul is so bad and it's just like Soul is not a good movie I think people postured Soul's fine. Soul's a good movie Soul is a very good movie

Soul was another movie that I watched in a very specific Psycho elemental which elemental is terrible Yeah I still haven't seen elemental Wolf Walkers is good It's good, but, like, I have not thought about Wolf Walkers once since I saw that movie. The Beef has really liked this movie, and good, because this is British independent cinema at its finest, yeah. I almost wonder if that's why the movie didn't get any Indy Spirit nominations, because it was deemed a British production.

Maybe. It is possible. Six Beefa nominations, though. Didn't win any, unfortunately. I mean, but it's good that Durkan is getting a best director citation. somewhere because, like, he deserves it. And, like, cinematography for this movie, of course. What were the big Bifa winners that year?

Let me click on in. I'm trying to think of what would have been the big, like, the father, I guess, maybe? Let's see. That would make sense, yeah. Oh, interesting. That Jude Law loses out to Adil Akhtar for... His co-star.

His co-star from The Nest, right? Who he berates on the sidewalk for the movie, Ollie and Ava. Oh, I haven't caught up to that. That's supposed to be good. And his co-star is, I believe, it's, I think she's the daughter in Secrets and Lies, the other daughter in Secrets and Lies. Oh, very interesting. That's interesting. This is the episode about movies that I want to catch up to from.

COVID. Yes, exactly. Carrie Coon, in turn, loses her award to Joanna Scanlan for a movie called After Love, which I also haven't seen. Future BAFTA winner, Joanna Scanlon, for After Love. It's interesting that that year's Bifahs also nominated Katrina Balfe for Belfast, a full year ahead of. As a lead, which she is. Or, no, oh wait, the Nest, sorry, the Nest competed the year after. Oh, got it. That's what it was. So the Nest was competing. with the 2021 movies. That's interesting. That's why it's also competing with the

Tuveneer. The Tuveneer, exactly. Great movie. After Love also is the movie that wins Best British Independent Film. Cinematography loses to boiling point, which is not a movie I've seen. This is the movie that when Joanna Scanlon won the BAFTA,

people who weren't paying enough attention were like, what? And we're like, yeah, we knew this was going to happen. Did we? I mean, I was not plugged in. All right. Um, well, anyway, good for The Nest for getting all those nominations. I think the big thing in terms of why the Nest had less of a shot, and like this is not to be shitty or mean. Uh-oh.

But it's that it was distributed by IFC. IFC is not good. Roll up your sleeves. Both barrels. Give it to IFC. The last, unless I have somewhere missed a international. feature or documentary, because IFC releases a lot of movies, the last Oscar nomination that they received was for Charlotte Rampling in 45 years. That's almost a decade. Yeah. This is not really the place to take a movie if you want it to get awards, which is why I was so bummed when they got wildlife, because Carrie Mulligan's performance in that, I think we both agree, is really great. We both really like that movie. And, And that's another movie where it's like, oh, there was just nothing for that movie. Like, it just was not a presence in award season. Do they just not campaign?

Is that the deal? Or do they campaign poorly? I mean, I think it, IFC used to handle a ton of movies. They've had a lot of issues this year, and it looked like they were going to go under. As of now, they are distributing the taste of things this year, which I think is probably the frontrunner to win international feature, just on, like, the movie and its taste, you know, this movie's going to play well for everybody. I,

but it's, if they lose, if that movie loses, it's because it's IFC. Like, I hate to shit on them. They do, they put out stuff that, like,

I'm glad they've taken a gamble on. There seems to be a lot of issues going on over there. But, like, they're just not great at pushing things for awards. I'm trying to go through, their filmography and see what other movies. They also had

Marion Cotillard getting nominated for two days one night. They had Boyhood. I've previously said if Boyhood was anywhere else, it would have more Oscars. Did they do the American distribution for Bergman Island? Is that right? Yes. Yes. Masterpiece, Bergman Island,

one of my favorite movies. And again, didn't show up at all. Of the past decade. One of my favorites. And didn't show up at all in award season that year. That's another one. We're like, and it was well reviewed. You might be on to something here. I mean, Chase to Things is going to be their biggest award success since Boyhood. MLK FBI, which was so, like, well regarded and then completely fell flat when it came to the Oscars.

All right. You're making your case for me. I'm saying. Sorry, I'm just going back. We wish the good people at IFC well, but it's... I wish anybody who's promoting independent films well. I want these movies to be seen and... appreciated, and it feels like we are in

trying times for getting anybody to watch any kind of movies, especially in theaters. And it's too bad, because there's a lot of really good ones out there. So, I'll ask. I think the qualifier that they're doing for Taste of Things is smart. You know, the movie is actually going to get out there when it's getting

the most press attention likely for, you know, major award wins. And then they're putting it out And apparently they're going to do a wide release on Valentine's Day, which I actually think is a good call. Yeah, I think that is a good call. Very good. What other stray notions should we have? We should mention, I mean, we talked about how great Carrie Coon is in this movie. Her career at this point, I want to talk about because, like, she's in, first thing that I had ever seen her in was when she was in Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf on. Broadway opposite Tracy Lutz. Hertony nomination. Yes, her toni nomination. And I sort of famously,

infamously, whatever, let's say infamously, sort of walked away from that and being like, oh, you know, her. And part of that is I don't, I love who's afraid of Virginia Woolf. I don't love that character. And so I walk away from that. And I'm like, oh my God, Tracy Lutz. Oh, my God, Amy Morton. And then I'm like, oh, yeah. You know, Carrie Coon. This woman named Carrie Coon played Honey. Is that the girls? Is that the ladies? Yeah.

But then, of course, she's in The Leftovers, which blows my mind so good. I mean, you talk about, like, Carrie Coon not being nominated for things she should be nominated for. Like, the Leftovers didn't get Emmy attention in any way, which is, you know, one of the really two bad things. One of the great TV shows of this century. and she's the best performer in that show. And it's really a bummer that she never got any nominations for it. But it also, like, I think really upped her profile, right? Like, she all of a sudden becomes somebody that everybody knows she's in Gone Girl.

I maybe nominate her for supporting actress in Gone Girl. She's tremendous in Gone Girl. I think there was the whole, like, do you nominate her? Do you nominate Kim Dickens? And they're both really good. And both at that time, mostly known for television. but man was We probably should have rallied around Kim Dickens

just because she's had such a long career worked with everybody And she's great in that movie Like that whole cast is really tremendous Tyler Perry's amazing in that movie Everyone is amazing in that movie I love Carrie Coon in the Post I love everybody in the post

But like it's not like she has this like big dramatic scene or whatever But like I love her as just sort of this like One of the Gang you know kind of like you know, working diligently on this story. Also an immaculate cast. It's a very much- Including widows. She's also in widows. Oh, my God. She's in a tremendous scene in widows.

I remember in the early going, looking at that cast, and thinking that she was going to be a major part of that and being, like, even more excited for that movie. Yeah, yeah. Did you see Boston Strangler? It's supposed to be really... No, nobody's really given me a reason to watch it, but maybe I will. I will say this, though, listeners, look forward to 2024, because Carrie Coon is in, how is his

name pronounced? It's not Azazel as I thought it was. Azizel Jacobs's movie, his three daughters, where Carrie Coon and Elizabeth Olson and Natasha Leon play sisters, you will, like I do, have a hell of a time trying to decide who's your favorite performance of those three, because all three of them are absolutely fucking out of this world. One of my favorite, it's already one of my favorite movies of 2024, no matter what else Yeah, yeah. A bummer that it's Netflix that has it.

But because a movie of that scale, they're just going to, they're just going to probably let it die. It's just going to disappear. It sucks. Yeah, that's right. We'll get loud about it. We will get very loud about it. Trust. Yeah. It's so good. And she's so good. She's kind of terrifying in it, but also, like, you know, brings the humanity to it. She's got another Ghostbusters movie coming out. No, no, we're not talking about it. Okay, here's what I will also say. Delete it. Delete it from the air. I finally started the second season of the Gilded Age this weekend. And that is, I mean, you talk about Saltburn being a movie about nothing.

The Gilded Age is truly blessedly about not a goddamn thing, while also being about like 20 different things, but like kind of not really about anything. And it is so much fun to watch. It is pure pleasure. It is just watching wonderful actors. just, you know, get this very kind of like arch, you know, dialogue, this very sort of like Downton Abbey-ask dialogue, but in this American idiom. And Carrie Coon is just this like wonderful social climber. Carrie Coon has these great scenes opposite Donald Murphy, who is

absolute perfection. There's about 33% too many characters in that show. They should probably cut it down by quite a bit. We really don't need to know about most of these people who work in the below quarters and service and whatever. Sorry to say, but like, there's just too many characters. But it is absolute pure pleasure. I don't like to use the smooth brain thing too often because I think it does get overused, but like truly, I do not have to tax myself one bit watching The Gilded Age. I love it so much. It's a good comparison, though, because Boltburn is also a smooth brain. The one, my hope for the future with Carrie Coon,

because she is also a theater actress as well. She's still doing stuff with Steppenwolf. She was doing, she was doing Tracy Letts's bug at Steppenwolf as the pandemic was happening. Can you imagine, like, being in that show and hearing reports that, like, if you are too close to people or breathing the same air, Because those audiences, I always feel like those productions are set in, like, the smallest little black box theater anywhere to make you feel like much more like... Cannot imagine a more stressful production to be in as an actor as you're hearing like, oh, you can't kiss people. Like...

For her role, for her performance in Bug, Carrie Coon won what is known as the Jeff Award, a Jeff Award? I never knew that that was a thing. What a fun name. I know it's short for... The Joseph, the Joseph Jeff Award. Award, but yes, imagine winning a Jeff Award. I would love that. I bring this all up because, and I do believe I sent this to you, I think all of, like, the blood left my body and then immediately came back, like, with, like, a million more electrons

and, like, my blood felt electrified. Uh-huh. They did an industry reading of August O'Sage County. Oh, right. Who was it? That was apparently private. If they are going to be reviving it, and she is in the Amy Morton role. Yeah. My God, I will lose my mind. Also, this cast that was at this reading, who knows what's going to come of this. Yeah. But And Dowd.

Deirdre O'Connell. So Deirdreau O'Connell was definitely the mother role. Oh, my God. Betty Gilpin. Who is the Julianne Nicholson role or the Juliet-Louis role? I don't think roles were specified, but, like, you can deduce. who like Carrie Coon and Deirdre O'Donnell and Dowd were playing. Yes, right.

Josh Lucas, Morgan Spector, if anything comes up, Will Brill. Morgan Spector and Carrie Coon together again after they're married on the Gilded Age. I mean, this, if this happens, I will... What did I just see Will Brill and? Oh, Will Brill was just... He is currently, he's Roy Cohn in fellow travelers and is quite good. the show kind of abandons. I liked it enough.

I wanted it to be better. I think it does some interesting things that deserve to get talked about. And not just the sex scenes, but also like the sex scenes are like quietly revolutionary because they're so fucking hot and like and unapologetic and fantastic. I think it does some interesting things in the way it talks about community. It also does a episode set on Fire Island that completely dodges cliche in a way that I didn't think was possible. Interesting. But in general, I wanted, I think it tries to take on too much. I would have loved a show that was a queer version of the Americans during the Lavender Scare.

I think that would have been a really strong show. and it sort of spreads itself over multiple decades instead in a way that, like, I understand why. But also I feel like it's maybe a stronger show if it's a little bit more concentrated. But I recommend it to people. I would say watch it. Okay. Yeah. I mean, it's showtime.

Everybody who has positive things to say about it also says I was disappointed. So I don't know if it's worth my time or not. Yeah. I mean, I can see that. I don't, it's not like I recommend it without reservations, but I also feel like it would be, it would be a disservice to completely dismiss it. I think sometimes people get too into, you know, good or shit kind of a thing. And I think it's in the middle. I think that's a show that exists in the middle. And there are things that it does well that I think it should be rewarded for. Also, like, Jonathan Bailey, what a doll. What an absolute. he's the one that was in spoiler alert right was he i never saw spoiler alert jonathan bailey is the one who was in crashing the phoebe waller bridge tv show that she did before fleab yeah um and he was also in uh bridgerton which was he's playing a very boring character in bridgetton i think um he was also a very animated guest judge on drag race that one time which was lovely to see.

I didn't see spoiler alert. He maybe was... Wasn't spoiler alert, though? The guy who was in... I'm looking it up now. The M. Night Shyamalan movie? No. Spoiler alert is Ben Aldrich. Yes, he is in the M-9.

Ben Aldrich is good in that movie. That is a movie that I think would be 10 times better if it was not Jim Parsons in that role. Oh, and spoiler alert. Interesting. The M-Night Shammelan movie is a movie that I keep going over. It's funny to think of like that was this year. I ain't watching that

I'm good love Why Why? No, I want to go into it I want to go into it Why? It just seems miserable I also don't want to know

What M. Night Shyamalan thinks gay people are like I don't know I don't need it Here's what I will say A knock at the cabin I keep forgetting the title of the movie Amnight Chamalon doesn't have bad opinions about gay people

Oh, no, that's not what I think. I would just think it would be very, like, love wins. It's not that either. It's harrowing in a way that my fear going into it was kind of founded, which was, I don't know if M. Night Shyamalan fully grasps what a powerful and sort of traumatizing image it is to see a gay couple targeted for violence in this current climate. And the movie's more than that.

It's also a little stupider than that. What? An M. Night Shyamara movie is stupid? That's never a criticism. How I just bit my tongue. Ah! Oh! And now I'm going to be talking like Julian Moore in May, December for the rest of the

episode. Um, oh, man, it's, you know when you bite the side of your tongue and it's just like, that's, that's, yeah, yeah. Oh, anyway, um, this movie was a very much disappointment for me. Um, the assignment with Peefe. What is Peefe? Anyway, and knock at the cabin. I'm, honestly, I'll probably watch it again to refresh my memory. Um, but, um, yeah, I don't think you should avoid it. I don't think it's something to be avoided unless, honestly, here's what I will say. My friend, uh, And our former guest, actually, Adam Berry, any of my friends who are gay with kids, I say approach, you might be, you might get a pass to avoid that movie. Because, like, it is very traumatic to watch a gay couple with a kid get, you know, targeted for murder. Yeah. It's a lot. It's a lot. Anyway. Anyway, should we move on to the IMDB game?

Yeah, we should. Let's do it. Would you like to explain the IMDB game to our lovely listeners? No. What if I refused? I mean, at this point, maybe... Listeners, you should know. No. Anyway, every week...

All those people that we've gathered for this episode that have never listened to us, that are listening to us because we're talking about the nest. Yes, all these new listeners that don't understand how we play. Listen, maybe Carrie Coon has decided for the first time to listen to us, and we honor her for that. I don't want to know about it if you know. I get so anxious about this. Have you been as thirsty for her husband as you've been for Zoe Kazan's husband on this podcast? Tracey Letts is a handsome man.

We can't get into it. But only in Deep Waters. That man is going crazy in that movie. Every week we end our episodes with the IMDB game where we challenge each other with the name of an actor or actress and try and guess the top four titles that IMDB says they are most known for. If any of those titles are television, voice-only performance, or non-acting credits, We mentioned that up front. After two wrong guesses, we get the remaining titles release years as a clue. And if that's not enough, it just becomes a free-for-all of hints. Chris, I just realized that both Tracy and Carrie Coon are in the post. I want to tally up whether Carrie and Tracy are in as many movies together as Elizabeth Marvel and Bill Camp are in together. Like, I want to... I'm willing to bet the answer is no, because neither of them are in as many movies as those two are.

That's true. But it's a thing I want to track scientifically now. They should be in more mood. What if, wait, what if that's who's afraid of Virginia Woolf? And it's like age-free casting, and it's just of those four. Oh, my God. But, but. This would mean that you are casting Tracy Letts as a haughty, which is correct. No, Tracy Letts as Martha, Carrie Coon as George Siegel, Elizabeth Marvel as George, and Bill Camp as honey.

Oh, you're like doing a full- Switch it up. You're just like, you're throwing those dice in a boggle board and, shaking it up and seeing where it lands. Got it. What's the George Siegel's character name? Nick. Nick. Yes. Carrie Coon is Nick. Um, shake it all up. Shake the dice and what was the thing that RuPaul used to say about Santina Rice? Shake the dice and throw the rice, Santino Rice is he? Something. Yeah. Now that Edward Alby is dead, I mean, and he doesn't require casting approval on all productions. Maybe you could get away. Chris, can we have one conversation where you don't mention the fact that Edward Alby is dead. I feel like every time

we talk, it's now that Edward Alby is dead, we can go to the Piggly Wiggly or whatever. Now that Edward Alby is dead, we can all know peace. All right. Not a nice man. The IMTV game. Joe,

did you explain it yet? Have we gone that far? Yes, I did. Okay. Would you like to give her guests first? I'll give first. Okay. So, I mentioned briefly that movie The rental that Sean Durkin produced, the Dave Franco directed horror movie, The Rental. Did

you ever see that movie? I did not. It's not bad. Allison Bree's in it. It's Allison Brie, Dan Stevens, Jeremy Allen White, and a fourth person who I can't remember, but I don't think is anybody whose name I knew before I saw that movie. But I should mention it anyway. Anyway, her name is Sheila Vand. Cool. She's very good. Anyway, good movie. Dave Franco does not act in it, but he does direct in it.

And we've never done Dave Franco for an IMDB game. And you know, I love Dave Franco often. So what are the known for? There are no television, no voice-only performances. I mean, they all have to be like... among those movies where they're all in them, like that whole crew of people. The disaster artist.

Correct. They're all going to be like disaster artist movies. What are the names of those movies? He's not in super bad. Is he in Superbad? But like, there's got to be a number. Apatow in there. I just can't pinpoint the Apatiles.

He's in. I guess I'll say Superbad. He's in Superbad. He plays somebody called Greg the soccer player in Superbad, but that's not one. So one strike. What was he in? That's not like that. He was in some type of franchise thing.

Doesn't he play like you think that he's going to be an asshole because he's like the new boyfriend? of, like, the lead's, like, ex-girlfriend, but he actually is, like, a nice guy. I'm not thinking of Rao Castillo and Chachau Real Smooth. I am the first person to mention or think of Chachau Real Smooth in two years. I like that movie. Talk about a movie people were too mean to for no reason.

Because they think the guy looks like he would be a... an annoying person in real life. Literally just because of what he looks like. It's genuinely, like, kind of shocking. It's also his age and the amount of success that he has that his age, people resent it. Yes. Okay. Dave Franco is also in, uh, he's in like a best picture nominee.

It's got to be, maybe I don't know Dave Franco that well. Like the night before? It wouldn't surprise me if he was in the night before, but it's not on his known four. So that's two strikes. So your years are... I'll take it. 2012, 2014, 2016.

Okay. 12, 14, and 16. So two of these are comedies. One of them is a drama, sort of high energy sort of... I will say I like all three of these movies. It's one of them, Pineapple Express. No, not Pineapple Express. That's another movie I wouldn't be surprised if he was in.

Let's see. He's weirdly not in Pineapple Express. Weird. Okay, so he's the lead in one of them. He is supporting in one of them. I will say, the thing where you were saying is he the new boyfriend of somebody who you think is going to be a douchebag, but then ends up being cool, you're not entirely off on one of those. It's not that he's the new boyfriend of someone's ex, but it's somebody who there's a potential love interest, and he feels like he's going to be the rival, and you think he's going to be like a real jerk, but then he's not. and that's sort of part of the like conceit of the movie which is oh we think like it's going to be

the sort of like old school rigid social politics of this group of young people and it actually is not that at all like that's one of the sort of jokes is this like Project X I'm thinking of like social politics and young people no far more far more mainstream big hit had a sequel that I didn't like. It's not like you, me, and depre. That is older than that. No, no.

Two leads. The poster is the two leads in white suits standing back to back to each other. Chuck and Larry? No. Back to back to each other and hold in guns. Oh, like 21 Jump Street?

21 Jump Street. Yes, that's exactly it. Is 22 Drum Street? on that. Well, that's the one I don't like. No, 21 Jump Street is the one Dave Franco is in. I think he also probably shows up in 22, but I don't think as much. Okay. The other big, broad comedy also had a sequel that I liked not as well as the original, but certainly better than 22 Jump Street. But the first one I really, really liked. It's a really good mainstream comedy. So, like, role models? No. But, no, it doesn't. star either. This is the end? No. One of the two stars of this movie, well, it's more than two stars, but there are two on the poster. Well, justice for the person who should also be on the poster. But anyway, is in a Sean Durkin movie. Oh, okay. Elizabeth Olson? No. Sarah Paulson? No, two men on this poster. Even though it should be, no. Zach Ephron? Baywatch

No No I don't love Baywatch How dare you I'm just trying to think of comedies that are Oh um uh neighbors Neighbors da neighbors neighbors Yeah justice for Roseburn Roseburn is the

Thank you Highlight of that movie Roseburn's so good Everybody is Seth Rogan Roseburn Zach Afron All really good Carla Gallo sure You know put her on the poster

Okay so the next one's a drama Yeah but like a fun drama. It's not like a serious, like, it's very kind of unserious, but I think it's a lot of fun. Is it like an ensemble drama? No. It's like, it's sort of like soft action.

Interesting. Soft action, so is it like a spy movie? No. It's like, um, almost like a quest. The quest makes it sound medieval. It's very much contemporary. Is it about kids?

or teens? They're sort of like in their early 20s. It's not quite teens, but like, you know, young people, maybe they're teens. Friends reunited. No, one of them is a teen, and I think he's a little bit older. Is that a road trip movie? No, but you sort of traverse the city. Got it.

Looking for stuff. It's very, you know, cutting edge of what what technology is allowing kids to do like Pokemon Go a little bit there's a little bit of that aspect to it

yeah there's an app though or something there's an app yes I have no idea what this is I don't think you've seen this which is too bad because I had a good old time with this movie it's him the poster is him and his female co-star, where it's sort of like their faces are...

Oh, this is him and Emma Roberts. It's like Nerve or something? Nerve, yes. Yeah, I did not see this. I remember gay people online being like, we're seeing Nerve. Well, he's super hot. It's the other thing. Like, Dave Franco is super hot and Nerve, but also, like, it's a fun time.

I had a very good time. That's a movie. That was one of those, like, I worked just north of time. and I rolled out of work on a Friday in an early evening, and I'm like, I'm seeing a movie. I don't care. And so I just walked down to The Regal, and Nerve was playing. And I was like, yes, I'm going to go see Nerve. It's 96 minutes of fun.

Highly recommended. All right. All right. For you, since I just did absolutely horrible with Dave Franco, I am not going easy on you. And I, aforementioned, Star of Gone Girl, Kim Dicker. Oh, any television. The great Kim Dickens. Any television?

Yes, there's one television. Okay. Is it Deadwood? It's Deadwood. Okay, good. I was like, it's either that or Fear of the Walking Dead. Okay. Is Gone Girl one of them?

Gone Girl is one of them. Okay. Um, now, what other things has Kim Dickens been in? Do they count the Deadwood movie as a movie? No. It's not on her known for. Okay. Was that a guess or no?

No, I feel like that's an administrative. Yeah, I wasn't going to count that as a guess, but I just wanted to be clear. Kim Dickens. Oh, golly, this is going to be tough. I mostly think of television shows when I think of what she's been in. Um shoot. I will say these are absolutely movies you have seen.

Yeah? Oh, okay. Um, maybe I should count that deadwood one is a wrong answer so I can get closer to my ears. Um, um, Kim Dickens. Oh, I just want to ask like questions and,

and we're, we're too we're not that far into it yet um is she in another fincher is she in I wish but no she should be castor in the killer David um why am I totally blanking on any other movie that she's

been in a meanwhile I'm like she was on lost um um you can take the forfeit and I can give you the years Yeah, I'll take the forfeit and give me the years. Okay, your years are 2000 and 2005. 2000? 2000. 2000 is directed by someone who, in the past decade or so, we've given a major reassessment to.

Oh. So somebody who was directing things that were a little bit more like junkie populist and were like, no, those are really good? Or is it like a Tony Scott? And it's not like a Tony Scott situation, but it's someone who has directed movies that have been poorly received. And now we have reassessed a lot of those movies. This movie, however, I would say, does not have defenders. This is one of the one that it's like, yes, it's that director doing a thing, but it's not a good movie. Okay. Do you like this director? Yes. Have you always liked this director? Uh, I mean, I don't think I saw much of this director until the past 15 years, but because I probably wasn't allowed to watch any of those movies.

Verhoven? Yes. Verhoven in 2000. Oscar nominee? Hollow man. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, sure. Uh, Oscar nominee. Yes.

What's the other year? O5. This is from a director who we have done. Almost all of their movies, but not this one. Zwick? No. Not Ridley Scott, even though we've done a lot of Ridley Scott. Think different brand of filmmaking than those.

Not these big, huge movies. Not these big, so small movies that we've done a lot of this person. Small to medium scale movies. Right. James L. Brooks. No. It's a dumb guess. we've done at least three movies by this director and I think we've done three

I would guess that we've done three and we have very very different opinions about each of those movies but we're in agreement about each of them oh interesting oh five oh five was it an Oscar nominee or awards contender in any way It was definitely this had Oscar-R-R-R-Wes movie. Have we done it? Have we done this movie? We have not. We have done three movies by this director.

Right, right, right, right. We've done one that is a significant disappointment that you can see the better version of the movie that it could be. We have done one that we both absolutely love, and we have done one that is maybe one of the worst. movies we've ever done on the show. Oh, wow. That is a spread. Um, yeah, yeah, sisterhood. What are our really bad movies? Um, um, one of all the worst movies we've ever done, but I'm pretty sure you'd have to go further back for when we did it. I think this is an early episode. Um, Mimi Leader. Um, um, once again not Ridley Scott

one of our earlier movies you did mention this is going to give it away you mentioned one of this director's more recent movies and I refused to talk about it earlier this episode oh god what did you refuse to talk about

fuck I did it was like mere minutes ago right perhaps starring Carrie Coon oh Ghostbusters Jason Reitman Jason Reitman in 05, yes. We have done a lot of Jason Reitman in 05 is thank you for smoking. Yes, thank you for smoking.

Don't remember her in that movie at all. Wow. Kim Dickens, that's an odd known for. That was hard. That was hard. So is DeFranco. I'm going to get you next time. Dave Franco had box office hits and not fucking...

That you do not think about him for. Fine. Fair, fair. Anyway, that's our episode. If you want more of this had Oscar buzz, you can check out the Tumblr at this had oscarbuzz.ttumbler.com. You should also follow us on Twitter at had underscore oscar underscore buzz. Please

also subscribe to us on Patreon at patreon.com flash this had Oscar buzz. Joe, where can the listeners find more of you? Oh, I am on letterboxed at Joe Reed. I am on Blue Sky at Joe Reed, I guess.

Their handles are not very clean, but just like search Joe Reed on Blue Sky and you'll find me. Like, that's fine. Yeah. And I am also on Twitter and Letterbox at Crispy File. That's F.E.I.L. We would like to thank Kyle Cummings for his fantastic artwork, Dave Gonzalez, and Kevin Meebius for their

technical guidance, and Taylor Cole for our theme music. Remember to rate, like, and review us on Spotify. Apple Podcasts, Google Play, wherever else you get your podcast. Five-star review in particular really helps us out with Apple Podcast visibility. So be the rising corpse of our dead horse

with a bright, shiny, five-star review. That's all. for this week. We hope you'll be back next week for more buzz. Bye.