This Had Oscar Buzz - 271 – Portrait of a Lady on Fire (Patreon Selects)

Episode Date: January 8, 2024

Our Patreon Selects episodes continue this week with a pick from Audrey: the beloved 2019 lesbian romance Portrait of a Lady on Fire. The film launched at the Cannes Film Festival, winning the Best Screenplay prize and skyrocketing director Céline Sciamma to the names of most beloved contemporary directors. However, when the Oscar race began, France … Continue reading "271 – Portrait of a Lady on Fire (Patreon Selects)"

Oh, oh, wrong house. No, the right house. We want to talk to Marilyn Hack, Merlin Hack and friends. Dick Pooh When you're embarrassed, you're mordes Really? When you're troubled, you're respirre by the push.

Hello, and welcome of time, rest, you? I don't know. I don't know if I'm a little bit. I regret. Hello, and welcome to the This Had Oscar Buzz podcast, the only podcast that's stuck like glue to my God. My God. Sorry. I wanted to be your backup.

Continue. Continue. What if we just got, like, like audio of every single like this had Oscar Paz guest that we've ever had doing and just did a whole rendition we did a full imagine video but can I be the squeaky nun that goes I gave my god my word of honor can I be that one bounces up yes yeah yeah yeah fabulous she's fabulous she's like definitely the one that they had to you know goad on to be like you're doing great sister Mary Bielzebub, you've got it.

Not Sister Mary Bielzab. I had to come up with something quickly. We're not still here talking about Sister Act like we did. Unfortunately. Every week on this had Oscar We'll be talking about a different movie that once upon a time had Lofty Academy Award aspirations, but for some reason or another, it all went wrong.

The Oscar hopes died and we're here to perform the autopsy. I'm your host, Chris Vile, and I'm here as always with my French bonfire chorus ladies, Joe Reed. Do you like... Oh, fuck. I like That smooth transition I did between movies. I fucking looked that up, too, and now I totally don't have it anymore of the, oh, what words they're saying in the song. Because I was going to come in, and I totally lost it. It's, oh, I have it here.

It's, where is it? Honestly, if Eloise hadn't, should I be saying Eloise or Heloise this episode? Either way. If she hadn't caught fire. they were about to start a, like, a fucking fierce step routine because they have the clapping, they have the increasing

like chant. Like, it was about to become France's premier step league. It's Fugere non-pasum. I knew Passum was in there. And they're doing the clap. What are they saying? It means they come fly. Oh. So

it's a, it's a Nietzsche quote, apparently. Got it. The higher we saw, the smaller we appear to those who cannot fly. So there we go. How nice. Yes. Excited to talk about this movie. First movie, I think, in a while that we've talked about that we saw together.

I was just about to ask you. I was thinking about that as I was filling up my water. I was like, did we see this shoulder to shoulder, Anna Pacquine and J. Smith Cameron style, just sort of coming to emotional peaks at this. the same time. I do think I was that embarrassing person that like when it hard cut to black was like I think you did make a noise. I do feel like that was... Echoing through the bowels

of the Winter Garden Theater, rest in peace. I know. It still exists. Things still happen there, but Tiff no longer uses it. Was that the last thing I saw at the Winter Garden? No, I saw marriage story I feel like at some point also. And that was later in that week. That was that week. I also saw, I believe this was this TIF.

Is that when the Coriata movie with Dinov and Benosh was there? Was that the year? That I saw at the lightbox. I don't know whether you were not with me at that one, so you might have seen it at a different place. Let me pull up my little sketch and be a big Tiff nerd like we always are. Let's see. My last thing that I ever saw at the Winter Garden was, as I scroll backwards,

da-da-da-da-da-da. air, super fun. It was marriage story. Yeah, marriage story. It was the last thing I saw at the Winter Garden. It was just that and Portrait of a Lady on Fire were the two things that I saw there. Maybe it was marriage story. Maybe it was the truth is the film. The truth, which the thing that I loved about that Tiff is I caught Coriata at the light box sneaking into the line for his own movie. I feel like I've told this story before. I don't think you have. So please do. But, like, I'm, I'm at, like, 2 p.m. going to the lightbox, like, amazing thing to get some gummy worms and a wine, uh, like a, the mess I am, uh, especially during a tiff. Is that your

light box snack of choice? Gummy, gummy worms in a wine? No, I just feel like that, that concession stand is so strange, but I do tend to, I've never actually gone to that concession stand. It's always so, like, full. Got to say, sorry, lightbox. Not to, like, not to, like, not. knock you, but, like, not really good popcorn at the lightbox, in my opinion. Could improve. Do better, bell. But then you get a wine and they give you a little plastic lid. Anyway, anyway, anyway. Yeah, yeah. The, like, major cue, as they're about to let a movie in, is, like, adjacent to you standing in line at the light box concession stand. And I look over and I see, ever so sly, tucked into the line that I know is for the truth because you have, like, you know, ushers and volunteers being like the truth for like 245 or something like that. Yeah, yeah.

And I look over, I'm like, that is Coriata. How did this man do that? Like, surely, you show up to a Coriata movie, you know what Coriata looks like. I couldn't pick the man out of a lineup, but I'm like, I probably couldn't pick 60% of directors out of lineups, even, like, unless they're like the most famous ones. Well, and, like, I had just seen him the previous night introducing his movie. And, like, you can tell that he's like... Like, I couldn't tell you what Celine Siama looks like.

Could not tell you. Oh, I think she has a very distinct look. We'll talk about Saly... Obviously, we'll talk about Salyzia. Anyway, all of this to say, you could tell he was, like, leaning in to hear what people were saying. I don't know if it's like, this is just what he does. I love it. I love it.

Like, sneak into, like, a festival. to see, like, are people excited for his movie? Like, what are they talking? Amazing. Amazing. I love that so much. That's a good story. I like that story.

This is our third Patreon Selects film that we're doing. Yes, we kicked it off with heat last month, and then all throughout January, which I think we did this last year. We need to make sure this doesn't happen again. Next year, we also have class of 2023 ending this month. So our Patreon Selects month is going to be like a month and a half. That's fine. We also have another one on deck, too.

So it's like maybe we'll get them all done by mid-February. January is a busy month. We're going to have Class of 2023. We're also going to have our mini bonus episode on Sundance that will be coming out at some point. So lots to look forward to. Sure, sure. Yeah. Maybe that'll be the very beginning of February.

We'll see what all I can see. they you can tell that the I am just virtual press for Sundance I think they're like squeezing that out I think they're squeezing the life out of virtual press they definitely are because like of the virtual stuff that's available anything that's in competition needs to be virtually available yeah for the press at least and I think for the public as well like the maybe two or three big tickets among that immediately gone. And I beat as soon as it was available.

So I think there's not a whole lot. They're not giving a lot of access to a lot of people on top of... I feel like that's even been their tone in like public statements about like we want this to be an in-person festival. I think they were very concerned and perhaps rightly so about it becoming a more of a virtual festival. Because like you like getting to Park City can be a pain in the ass. And it comes at a very sort of inconvenient time of the year. And I think they're probably, they probably want to retain that you got to be here to see it here, the atmosphere. And, you know, you can't entirely blame them for that.

I mean, it's a double-edged sword. It is. You know, it's good to have, to have things be accessible to audiences. However, like, that accessibility comes and goes. because, like, the price point for one movie to watch virtually from Sundance is $25, $25 to rent a movie once through a festival. That, to me, does not say accessibility. Right. But also, like, we've gone through a few years.

Although, what are public tickets when you go to a festival in person, too? You know what I mean? Like, that's... Right, right. That would be cheap, I think, if I were going to, like, TIF on a public. You know what I mean, buying public tickets. It depends on when you see something, too. There's a sliding scale to everything.

But, like, when I was seeing $90 ticket tickets this year, that's, that, get it together. That's not. No one can go to that. Like, that's crazy. That's expensive for theater. That's expensive for, like, I would balk at that for most theater. I am a frugal. I'm a fairly frugal, a life theater person.

And, like, generally, I don't shell out. out for $100 unless it's something major. You know what I mean? That I'm going to really try and go for something in the like sub-75 range if I can. And like, that's even insane. You know what I mean? That's even insane. But like, yeah.

All this to say, when we saw Portrait of a Lady on Fire with a really amped crowd, a crowd that knew what they were in for and was excited, guarantee you they did not pay $90 a ticket to see that movie. In, like, the perfect setting to see that movie, the Winter Garden Theater, like, truly is wonderful to see TIF movies at when they still were there. I don't think they're there anymore because the city kind of wanted them to rein it in. You know, there's probably benefits to the city of Toronto for a festival. That you're not tying up traffic on Young Street, like, for two weeks? Yeah, probably.

Yeah. this first screening that we saw it after like it had gotten this great reception at Cannes incredible reviews among the best of the festival oh a best of best of that whole year period like I feel like yes but specifically that can which was like a great can and launched you know major movies that we spent the whole year talking about we'll talk about it we'll talk about it um this I think came into the fall with one of the best reputations, the most anticipation for film people that were paying attention to all that. And it did not disappoint. It didn't. It really didn't. And like you said, the atmosphere was really, really great for it. And I just, I feel like I remember the ovation. And it was first night of TIF was, it wasn't like the opening night film, but like it was definitely a major

part of that first night of the festival and it was great it was a great way to kick it off you mentioned

not remembering Celine Siama I that was like one of my favorite interests I've maybe ever seen to a movie and not for like

any specific thing I can remember her saying but just a quality of she could tell that it was an audience that was very excited for her movie and rather than like

being kind of self-effacing about it she kind of met that with this swagger that was I need to get better at living in the moment like that. All of the, any time any intro before a movie at a festival is like that.

All I am doing is being like all right, let's go. Let's get this movie on the room. This intro's are boring. Well, and it's also just like, I get, you've talked about, I think you made mention on this podcast once before, about, like, I have a very tunnel vision task-oriented way that I sort of go about my life sometimes, where it's just sort of like, this is the thing that we are doing right now. We need to focus on doing this thing

right now. And it's just like, now is the time to see movie. Make me see movie. You know what I mean? There are. I'm bad at noticing the periphery. And, and I maybe need to get better at that. Well, no, no, no, no, no. I think, I think, I think you're perfectly fine, especially in the that we're talking about, but also, like, to, to your fair point, I have seen intros at that festival that it takes a full 15 to 20 minutes. Were they bringing up 15 cast members, yes, to give an applause break to every single cast member. Yep. And especially if you're like, I have to hustle to a movie the second the credit start, please get a

move on. And yet, on the flip side of that, what a lovely moment for those people. You know what I mean? It's just like, so I feel bad sort of being, you know, complaining about that because it's like, I didn't make a movie. You know what I mean? These people made a movie. And like if they're getting their like moment, it's a premiere, the whole audience is there for it. Like, that's lovely.

You're going to do the same thing after the movie, though. Well, also that. I mean, like, I think pre movie is a good time to do like a. director's statement type of thing, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But the thing, what's really compelling is when the, um, festival programmers, and again, I love festival programmers. In another life, I'd probably be one.

Um, go out and like, really give you the like, the IMDB filmography of the filmmaker, who you're about to see. And then like, yeah, I'm like hitting you eight movies deep or whatever. And it's like, and mentioning every single time they were at, you know, that. particular festival, and it's like, yep, yep, I know the movies this person is made as well. But again, there are people for whom that is illuminating, so I need to get out of my own experience, and I don't know. This is, 2024 is going to be more holistic, Joe. We'll see how long that lasts, but I'm going to be one with the world. I'm going to be of the world.

What's the question, what's the quote in Angels in America? You have to be of the world and not in the world, or is it the other way around? I can't remember. I don't know, but I'm positive that this is something that's said to Lewis, and I mean, that, that might be correct for you. It's at the end. It's at the end when they're at, in Central Park. And, um, and they're all sort of reading the newspaper headlines or whatever. It's during that scene. Um, anyway. Accurate that you would be the Lewis. Um, wow. Wow. That is not. me. We are a week into the new year, and he's reading me. I also think I'm a bit of a Lewis. Didn't used to be. I definitely am now as an adult in my 30s. I think it's hard not to be once you

hit that certain maid. That's true. Maybe this is also just what, you know, the 2020s, the 20s, the 20, the teens have done to us as an adult populace. We've all become Lewis Ironson. Louis Ironson. Oh, well, here we go. I mean, he had the original posters disease because all of his monologing, it's just like, the man has posters disease without even a social media account. It absolutely is posters disease. You're absolutely right. Wow.

Well put. Anyway. Anyway. We've already, in our Portrait of a Lady on Fire episode, gotten into Hirokasu Koriata, Angels in America, concession stands. Truly back on our bullshit in the most back on our bullshit kind of a way, like, honest to God. Joe, speaking of our bullshit, why don't you tell our listeners about our Patreon that they can subscribe to? Oh, you guys, if you are not currently signed up as a member of the This Had Oscar Buzz Patreon family, I'm just going to say family. No better time to do it than with the new year. You can kick off your new year on a good note.

For $5 a month, you can be part of this had Oscar Buzz turbulent brilliance, which is what we are calling our Patreon membership with that $5 a month. You will get access to, first of all, two bonus episodes per month. One of those episodes were calling these the exceptions. These are the movies that we would have done for regular flagship. This had Oscar Buzz, but they got an Oscar nomination or two, even though they follow the very same pattern of great, Oscar expectations and disappointing Oscar results. So we've talked about films like very recently Charlie Wilson's War, a movie I've been talking about, oh, my God, I wish we could do Charlie Wilson's War, like, since the

day we launched this podcast. So we finally got to do that. The Mirror has two faces. We couldn't let the Barbara autobiography come by without getting our own little taste of Barbara. Slash, I would have just made it. I would have just soapbox grandstand. about it anyway.

I've finally, I'm making my way through the audio book, which is, it seems like. Take your time. Take your time. It's so painful when it's over. It's,

and just even, we've gotten as far as, I believe, I don't even think she's gotten the Tony nomination yet for, um, uh, I can get it for you wholesale, but like,

it's about to happen. Um, she's talking about Elliot Gould, but I feel like I've gotten such, a comprehensive knowledge of the foods that she likes and the colors that she hates,

which is just such a rich tapestry. Coffee ice cream. Also... Coffee ice cream. I love the color off white. Well, it's not even... It's just like...

And that's... Well, she'll tell a whole story, and she's like, I think that's why I've always hated the color royal blue. And it's just like, every single story from her childhood is like,

that's probably why I don't deal very well with people who are late. And it's just like, oh, my God, this is perfect. Every little bit of her, like, idiosyncrasies comes chalked up to, like, some little childhood story or whatever. It's great. She'll read someone's compliment to her and go, wow. Have you gotten to the amount of uses of the phrase, at the moment of commitment, the universe conspires to support you,

that you start chanting along when she says it? Oh, no. Okay, no. It's coming soon because she just says, she, she says, little did I know. Little did I know has that has appeared a lot. Little did I know also gets the studio audience chanting along. Anyway, little did I know we had a Patreon. Let's get back. Yes. Our second episode of every month is going to be an excursion where we're going to go a little bit more off, off topic, off formats. We're going to talk about award roundtables, those, those lovely annual gatherings of nominees and prospective nominees to talk about whatever. I was just texting with you and Katie last night about how I think I'm more excited for the Actors Roundtable than I am for the Actress Roundtable this year, just from the clips

that I've seen what a world of difference it makes with like two gay actors on a panel. Like with Andrew Scott and Coleman Domingo, it's like, it's a breath of fresh air. I love it so much. We've talked about the 1996 MTV Movie Awards. We'll be doing other old movie awards. We'll be dipping in to talk about the award, the current year's awards race, as we much like to do. Chris went to Magic Mike Live.

We talked about that. Coming up, we've got the 2018 Hollywood Reporter Director's Roundtable. Chris, remind me who's in that lineup. A lot of people that we're already talking about in this Oscar race that I think will be interesting. Jorgas Lantamos is there. Ryan Coogler, I believe, is there. it'll be nice nice fantastic so like I said it's $5 a month we will also be giving you access to patron only polls some of which will help us determine what movies we're going to be talking about the lovely bones was a patron's choice that we that we covered quite happily we are also doing periodic hotline phone calls that we have a we have a number that you can call and leave us a voice message and ask us a question and we will chime in every

now and then with answers to that. That has been very fun. You can be, what's the status of our sponsor tier, Chris? It's already full, but you never know. Maybe it won't be tomorrow. All right. And that is, of course, the sponsors are the ones who are giving us our marching orders this month. So, Gary's, we love you so much. Little did I know if I joined the sponsor tier, and I did it for three consecutive months, I could choose an episode for the main feed.

Wow. Oh my gosh. So go over to... Maybe this is why, you know, my father, he was a sponsor of many things. He was a very difficult man. Patreon.com slash this had Oscar Buzz. You can go and sign up if you haven't already. If you have already,

party. Let's have a great 2024. Looking forward to it. Have fun in the comment section over there. Sound off. So, Chris, this episode, as we've mentioned, was selected by one of our sponsored to your patrons. And this was from Audrey. Would you like to read Audrey's words of encouragement as we go to talk about this film? We'll also be sharing the sponsor who selected the films during our Patreon Select series.

We'll be telling you their Oscar origin story, much like we do for guests on the show. Audrey didn't really share an origin story but did talk a little bit about female directors we'll get into it this episode Audrey says about Portrait of a Lady on Fire this is one of my two favorites from 2019 as I was lucky enough to get to go to Tell Your Ride

for the first time and was one of the reasons I thought I was becoming an educated cinephile spoilers I am not an educated it's in file. I just like gorgeous directing and lesbian love stories. Audrey, absolute same. Let us know what you think about Telluride. If you think it is wonderful and great, I apologize for all of the shit talking. All of the shade I have thrown at that festival. But I hope you had an amazing time, Audrey. Yeah. This would have been a great time to go to

Telluride. I mean, this was a good enough TIF, but like a lot of things that were also big at this TIF launched at a telluride too because Parasite was also there Judy was there God, this was also the year of waves for waves. I do remember waves

I was just scrolling through my Tiffer and I saw waves in there I was like, oh, right. We can't get into the rumors about the Trey Edward Schultz with the weekend movie in case that it is not verified but if it is verified, I am going going to maybe burn down the Warner Brothers lot.

I'm so mad about it. Don't go crazy, Chris. I can't get this mad about a rumor. God forbid. Don't go crazy. God forbid something actually happens at the Warner's Lot and they'll come and go get me. Little did I know that night there was a fire at the Warner Brothers lot.

Fuck up. Wow. Makes me think of the time. Little did I know the dry conditions in Los Angeles were conspiring to have a fire at the Warner Brothers lot. Maybe that's why I'm making her a lot more... I'm making her a lot more like someone's ma down in a... I tried to get them to have coffee ice cream at the Warner Brothers Lot, but

no one would listen. And that's why I've never liked turquoise. Actual quote. Actual quote. She also went on for literally three full actual minutes about Swanson's TV dinners. Yes, yes. Okay, so the other thing, we've said this to our listeners multiple times. You know, we're evangelizing about the Barbara audio book as much as we've evangelized about a thousand and one.

About what else have we evangelized about this year? But friend and former guest, Kevin Jacobson, started after I had finished, and he was going to do both simultaneously. And I asked Kevin, I said, please annotate every time that. she goes off script in the audio book. I would love to know that, yes. And he got back like two days later, maybe. It was like, I can't keep keeping track of it. It happens so odd. It's so much. You do wonder that as you're listening to it. By the way, I saw a fantastic movie I need to recommend to you. It's called a thousand and one. It's so good. We haven't gotten to talk about it since you finally watched it after I finally watched it.

You know, used a corner of our every episode to be like, listeners, go watch this movie. to act like I wasn't going to watch it and to, like, lecture me. The shame is that, like, I think its awards case has kind of run through, but at least it showed up in the places that it was kind of supposed to show up. And I've seen people who have been watching it. And, like, that's good. That's good for, you know, just sort of everybody going forward. Just, like, get as many people as you can.

And listen, we could start a letter writing campaign a lot. Andrea Rysborough for Tiana Taylor. You never know. Francis Fisher, where are you when we need you? Tell everybody, we only need 219 first place votes for Tiana Taylor. Yeah. Like, we're right about the time when that thing started, right? Like... I mean, basically, yeah. Yeah.

I felt like the dummy for not taking to Leslie seriously enough at first. Well, nobody did. Like, we all had a good little laugh at it. Some people were like, I don't know. I think this is going to happen because they saw enough people, like, posting about it. Yeah. Well, what we could do is we could scare people into thinking something like that's going to happen this year. I'm like, you know what I mean?

And just get, like, two or three, like, very influential people to, like, tweet about something and just be like, oh, okay. I mean, the thing is, I mean, like, Andrea Reisboro, incredible performer. Yes. The performance is not bad, but that is a bad movie. And I didn't think it was that bad. I thought it was fine. I just thought, like, it revealed so much that I didn't want to know about what a lot of that industry thinks of independent filmmaking is. Sure.

They kind of, I felt like they kind of got hoodwinked by that movie. And it's just like you've never seen a movie that's been made for less than $2 million if you think that this is, like, incredible something that's never been done before. I mean, I think even among a community of artists, things do settle on a large enough law of numbers, things do kind of settle at the middle, right? Things do settle at a kind of middle, for lack of a better term, middle brow sort of appreciation level. And that's just sort of, you know, that's the way it goes. That's why even if you look at, you know, if you vote with any kind of voting body of any significant size. the more daring things at the margins get snipped off because the things that everybody has most in common are the ones that that rise to the top. And that's just sort of statistics as it goes.

If there is one like instructive lesson that we could give our listeners, and I feel like this has been a previous mailbag question, the average academy voter sees much less movies. than the most passive cinephile. Like, that is instructive in terms of everything we talk about here. Yeah, that's true. A thousand and one incredible Tiana Taylor performance. Cannot wait to see whatever A.V. Rockwell does next. Yes. Portrait of a lady on fire.

Audrey, Audrey, since you chose this movie, I hope you've seen, and you care about female directors, I hope you've seen a thousand and one. We're going to talk about a little bit later what a good movie. year 2019 was for women directors, especially within. Like, I think on some level, I think every year is a good year for women directors. I shouldn't, I don't want to like start with that rubric. Every year, there are so many good movies by women directors. Sometimes it's just a matter of you seeking them out. And sometimes it shouldn't be that hard to seek them out. And it, and it is. And some years, the, you know, the studios make it a little bit easier for us. And we are thankful for those years. It's a problem. I mean,

like everybody can like do their part to watch movies that are made by women but also like there's an infrastructure to the industry that doesn't support women filmmakers like yeah yeah yeah and 2019 though a lot of there was a lot of good recognition for really good work by women you had mariel heller with a beautiful day in the neighborhood um we had uh lorraine schfaria Lorraine Scafaria for hustlers, little women with Greta Gerwig. Lulu Wong with the farewell. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Some really, really fantastic ones. So, Celine Siama definitely was in good company that year, which was great. Yeah, it was great to see. Even at Cannes, when Matityaup won for Atlantics, a movie that I love.

Yes. Yes. Listen, we have long been promised an at last. Atlantic Criterion, this is my Criterion soapbox where every month they announced their announcements and I am like, you told us, years ago, we were getting Atlantics and still isn't here. Where is it? Claire Deney was that year too, right? That was High Life? High Life, no.

Well, High Life was released in the spring, but it was the previous festival. It was 2018 festival season. So, yes, you could absolutely include Claire Deney in this conversation. Casey Lemons also wound up in the Oscar conversation with a nomination for Cynthia Rievo for Harriet that year. I'm just sort of going through the Oscar numbers. There's also BookSmart, which when, you know, BookSmark would get brought up in this conversation. I had so much fun at BookSmart, but.

Like, if we're talking about directing. Okay, but also, you know I am somebody who is a very, very big believer in, there have to be levels to a marketplace, right? And, like, there's your high-end, top-shelf stuff, and then there is your feel-good crowd-pleaser stuff that you don't have to sacrifice. Like, I didn't feel like I was sacrificing anything to enjoy something like BookSmart. And I think that's really, and I think ultimately... Just because you're not going to hand an award to Olivia Wilde for directing, you know what I mean?

Like, I can, I still feel very happy about putting that movie among, you know, my favorites of that year. Sure, sure, sure, sure. Yeah. Yeah, 2019 was like kind of a sneaky good year that we kind of forget about because we didn't have time to bask in it because COVID happened so early in 2020. But, like, we really- I've seen a lot of people this year say that, 2023 is like the best year since 2017. Like, 2019 was incredible.

I mean, granted, a lot of things that I would include among, like, the best of the year, like Claire Denise Hyde life, are maybe a little more divisive or something like Madi Diop's Atlantic's, Atlantic's, which is underseen, you know? I think this year's best picture list will probably be more consistently good for me, because 2019's best picture list, you had things like Ford. Ford versus Ferrari and Jojo Rabbit and Joker, and even something for me, like, I was so cool on the Irishman that it was tough for me to, like, chalk that up to, like, but I was warmer on 1917 than you were, and you were warmer on the Irishman than I was. So, like, these things even out, these things. But, like, I watched once upon a time in Hollywood again, the other day I was on TV, and I sort of wandered into it about halfway through. What a great movie that like we should probably it seems weird to say like oh we should be talking about this

more about like a quentin tarantino movie who gets like all the press he wants but like what i think a lot of the conversation around that movie especially when it first opened was dumb sure sure yeah yeah well and i'm still like i am still up for a conversation about the way that movie ends which is still like not my favorite but like even with that and even with being able to like sort of wrangle about like what is the actual benefit of Tarantino bringing putting the Inglorious Bastards treatment to the Manson murders but like even among that said it's still a fucking great movie well and how much do you buy Tarantino making this movie that's also a reassessment of you know

violence in media and his own role in it. How much do I buy that he's actually really looking inward? I'm not so sure. Yeah. But I do think that, like, it is an interesting experiment of what he... It feels like it is his most personal movie in a lot of ways. We're also at the same...

For a man that, like, because of the pastiche of it and the, like, film, you know, film as film criticism, you know, of what his whole career. has been, it doesn't feel like he's looked inward that often in a way that I think that movie does, even if I don't fully think he's, you know, really examining himself. We are at the same time that we're doing this episode. We are preparing their last few days of preparation for this Scorsese draft that we're doing for screen drafts. And so I've been rewatching a lot of the Scorsese DiCaprio movies and kind of doing some reassessment. I was always somebody who would sort of, you know, back away when everybody was praising DeCaprio's

performance in The Departed. Watching that movie again, whatever else I feel about that movie, I just, watching it again, I was like, oh, no, DiCaprio's fantastic in this. Like, what was I thinking? And watching Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, I'm like, I love him in this. And I'm somebody who like, my favorite Leo performance. I tend to be a little bit of like a pissy bitch when it comes to DeCaprio a lot, not always, but a lot. And it's like, oh, maybe I'm coming into my, like, appreciation Ereff or Lea Matter DeCaprio, which would be nice, because I like when I like Leo. I liked him in a lot in Killers of the Flower Moon, so, like, we're hitting a good stride

right here. Yeah. Anyway, we've managed to fit in a lot of detours, and we're going to fit in one more because we're going to talk about the Vulture League where we get into. Well, then let's just dive into Vulture, so then when we have gotten that business aside, we can fully dive into this movie that I know we both love. And we can talk about seeing it together, which is always fun to do on this show that we record, never actually getting to see each other. Right. I know. I know. All right. We get to do it live this week with the Vulture update. You are, however, going to be listening to this in the future from us. Right now we speak. to you from before the Golden Globe Awards are being held. And you are going to be listening

to this after. Before the Super Mario Bros. Uh, legendary Globes tally. Okay. Let's just start it off with the one we're holding our nose for. Um, eight movies nominated for cinematic and box office achievement, a category that doesn't even have the word best in it because they're so ashamed of it. Um, what are you rooting for and what do you think will win? You know how I feel about the existence of a category like this, but I feel very strongly and adamantly that this needs to go to Taylor Swift. Like, first of all, I would, for everyone in the movie fantasy league that did draft the heiress tour film, I think it would be fun if they got some type of award points for this somehow.

Yes, yes. But I also just think. especially after me talking for the whole season about, like, it's not going to win any awards points, you guys. Like, don't worry. Like, concert movies don't win awards, which I am being proved right by in the documentary categories. But the Globes had to throw me, after all I've done for the Golden Globes, that they would do me like this, is genuinely upsetting. You are that crazy ex-girlfriend after everything I've done for you that you didn't ask for song about the Golden Globes. Yep. Okay. The existence of a category that just celebrates a financial achievement. And, like, they put cinematic in there, but, like, what do you mean by that? That just expresses shame. Now you're the Jennifer Lawrence meme. What do you mean? What do you mean? What do you mean? It is, to me, having to throw the word cinematic, which, like, you know, you know, you. You know, what do you mean? What do you mean? Um, it is, to me having to throw the word cinematic, which, like, you know,

You know, you talk about that, you use that word in a review, and I might understand what you mean, but truly, what do you mean when you put that in there? It is just a word thrown in there to make word salad that says, we're not just giving this away for box office, because that would be shameful. But it truly is an award about financial achievement. Could you give it to Oppenheimer because it's unrealistic global box office take that a three-hour biopin, would make a billion dollars around the world? Sure, you could. Could you give it to Barbie for its absolute runaway success specifically in the U.S. market?

Sure, you could. But there absolutely is a way to just be like, why is this going to go to anything but Barbie? Barbie's the number one movie of the year, like financially. Like, among the criteria you have set out for us, why wouldn't it go to Barbie? You know what I mean? Like, that's sort of... I'm sorry. You either give it to Taylor Swift or you give it.

to the Super Mario Bros. Because who gives a fuck? Giving it to Taylor Swift, this movie that, you know, yes, you could read the T-Leaves and know that Beyonce and Taylor were planning to do this type of thing because it was, you know, heavily talked about in the pandemic that it's like, we should have had, uh, we should have had Beyonce homecoming in IMAX, not just dumped on that. Right. Right. Like, you know, people say, whatever. The way that Taylor Swift side-swiped industry process and, like, status quo, I do think is somewhat commendable.

Moved a bunch of movies off of their release dates. Right. Like, there is something, like, sure, ultimately for, like, a movie making money, the money is the prize. But I do think that there is something somewhat revolutionary about the approach to the industry and meeting the customer where they're at that the studios are not doing that you can make an actual like a worthy in a way nobody deserves this prize but in another way if you were going to try and make a deserves this prize that would be a way that would be an

angle to take on it this prize that shouldn't exist but also right i'm kind of rooting for taylor i'm with you can i lay out a scenario for you though can i lay out a uh A scenario that by the time people listen to this will have been either proven or disproven. Sure. Are you about to give me a scenario about how the Super Mario Bros can win? I feel like what's most likely is that it's about to be the consolation prize to either Barbie or Oppenheimer and one of them doesn't get a Best Picture Prize. Well, so don't get ahead of me here. But this is sort of where I was going was,

best picture drama and best picture musical or comedy are setting up so neatly to be a Barbenheimer double dip where it's Oppenheimer and Drama and Barbie and comedy that's sort of been the twin lanes that they have been traveling in but what I'm saying to you is if they give cinematic and box office achievement to Barbie the holly the the former artists formerly known as the Hollywood foreign press would they then take that as a permission slip to vote for something like

either the holdovers or poor things for best picture musical or comedy because Barbie's getting an award elsewhere. I feel like there is a high probability that when this episode

drops, we will be a high possibility, not probability. That we will be living in a we've been underestimating the whole holdovers this whole time universe. I'm sort of bracing for that moment to hit at some point soon. Yeah. I do think the holdovers is maybe the movie that's going to benefit the most from a preferential

ballot as well. I've seen a lot. I see people I see people put people putting low on their ballot. I've seen a few people be sort of the like fly in the ointment for holdovers and have a negative reaction, but it's such a minority of reactions. Like way more people that I would have ever thought are really liking the holdovers. I'm not a lie of the ointment about the holdovers, but I'm, like, the most negative person about the holdovers, and it's a movie I love. I've seen a couple people be like, it's really bad.

But, like, that's like, that's an extreme outlier. Yeah. Yeah. But, like, there are people who I would have thought would have absolutely been too snobby for this movie who, like, are just like, oh, it's so wonderful. I really loved it. And, like, it got such a good wave. It's the exact kind of a movie that got the, we watched. it over the holidays, you know, kind of a reaction that, like...

Much to Alexander Payne's chagrin, I do think it's a movie that's making people feel good at a certain time of the year. Oh, does he not want it to be a Christmas movie? He made some comments about how he doesn't like it to be called a cozy movie, and it's like, but there's plenty of movies that, like, make people feel good that are about sad things. Like, watch any Merry All Heller movie, dude. Yeah, yeah. But it's also on Peacock now, so I think a lot of people are, I think the rate at which I'm seeing people re-watch the movie is...

No better time, by the way, to sign up for Peacock than the holdover is showing up there and the Traders is about your premiere. We can't talk. We can't. We can't. I've seen the first episode, Chris. We can't go. I don't want to know that. I don't want to know. I don't want to know. I don't want to know. I'm so excited. Okay. We'll talk on Friday. Okay. Yeah. When the season was kind of warming up, I was saying things like I don't see this as a movie that wins multiple Oscars.

And I don't know if I feel that way anymore. I'm going to get you to admit that you were wrong about something at one point in 2024. It's going to be so exciting. What do you mean? You have a way of... Being wrong and then not saying that you were wrong. Or, like, me being right and you're not telling me that I'm right. I think my feelings at that point were indicative of where the holdovers was in that race.

And, like, it was good for it to be at that place. Chris wasn't wrong. He was just out of time and space. And where he was at the time was correct. It's right, baby. All right. My angel flung out of space. That's me. Okay. Back to the game, though. Yes. Besides maybe Barbie. Oh, you want to talk about

a thing that I was right about? Back to the game? What I want to talk about Wonka being number one for three of its first four weeks in release? There you are. Keep racket, even as box office points dwindle down, any Wonka drafters, which it doesn't seem like there was a ton, which is where you want to be in the game, actually. You want to be getting the points that other people are not getting. Yes. Absolutely right. And you're seeing a little bit of that at the top of the leaderboard. If you go in, there are teams that are creeping up into the top 10 now that have Wonka on their rosters. And it's like, yeah, that's, that's a good place to be. Is Theresa May, December, still rocking it as the top, Gary?

Um, let me look. All of us, Gary's. Let's see. Charisa May December. Yes, sixth place overall. And first place in the Gary's League Also shout out to John Wick for Oscar Who is 17th overall Second place for the Gary's League So the Gary's continue to show up

Let's see who had Who's our top Gary with Wonka on their roster? Let's see Da-da-da-da-da Again love the dead air that comes with me Clicking through things And looking through things Man, the Garys were not on the Wonka thing as hard as they could have been, I suppose.

You led that trail, and you were right. No one followed. No one followed. That's fine. You know what? I'm happy being correct about something this year. Anyway, I'll go back and investigate that. But yeah, good for Charisa May December and John Wick for Oscar. I will say, Lord knows I I don't want to pile anything more on the Marvels, which I think is a not bad movie that is being treated as an awful movie because of where it is situated on a sort of a longer trend. But Aquaman in the Lost Kingdom, sort of like casually getting to a hundred million after three weeks, even though nobody seems to like or pay attention to that movie, like, I do feel bad. that even, like, on its way out of the D.C. extended universe, that they were just like, oh, yeah, ho-hum, $100 million. It was, you know, it's a disappointment or whatever.

Had they released the Marvels over the Christmas New Year's window? It would have been a $100 million movie as well. Yes, that's the thing. Of course that's, of course that's the case. Yes. What else in terms of... The Marvels was also facing up against Taylor Swift money to... Yeah. Oh, yeah. Like, the circumstances were very different. Um, migration is headed towards, uh, towards 100. Now it's at 77. Once again, illumination, just people go see those movies. Nobody's seeing animation, but, but.

Trolls passed 100, too. So if you drafted trolls, you get that bonus. Trolls, sweated that shit out, eight weeks to get to 100, but they were like, we're going to fucking do it. Anyone but you keeps rising, even though I've not heard from anybody who seemingly has liked it. But like, it's going to hit a hundred, it's going to hit the 50s. million dollar threshold probably before next week's updates. So it's the one that's rising in box office. It's holding very well. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Boys in the Boat. It actually gained

this week. I think it has gained multiple weeks in a row. Boys on the Boat gets my who's going to see this movie award, but like I'm kind of, I'm deadline. Keep saying it's the flyover states. Like its whole box office has been. You know what? If that's where George is going to land and like, and that's his, like, go for it, George. Like, I'm fine with that. And honestly, like, good for Josh O'Connor, too. Honestly, good for the box office that a movie like this can, that, like, no one seems to be talking about. Yeah. Like, doesn't have stars leading it. I wouldn't even say it was really sold on the back of George Clooney. And it's still making money. So that, that points to health and potential at the bottom. The Iron Claw is going to end up as one of A24's highest grossing movies ever, which is. It's already. in their top 10, yeah. It passed, it's not going to pass talk to me, but it did pass Priscilla from this year. I still think that would have been

somewhat of a tough, not a tough sell for awards voters, but like, to try and figure out what about that movie you're going to be pushing. Yeah. Because it had such an ensemble. I do still think Holt McAllenay probably could have had a supporting actor campaign around him that would have worked, I definitely think they could have at least tried for a Zach Afron campaign. They could have gotten him a Globe nomination. Yeah. And so that bums me out the fact that like, you know, releasing it so late in the year. I do think it's a really good movie while at the same time being like the weakest Sean Durkin movie. I wouldn't disagree, but like that's a, that's a high bar. He sets a high bar. Yeah. Yes. Um, you know, the strain in that movie to me is

when he's trying to make an overtly mainstream movie and it's like that's he's not the guy for that but like i appreciate him trying to stretch in that way but there are things that work in that movie that like 90% of directors wouldn't be able to make work in that movie like i think specific moments and like and that's and that to me is is why you get somebody like dirken to do that um it's great that that movie is making good money like that that's that movie's win and good for that movie you know what movie is not really doing all that great that I think is I think could you know take it out of the conversation of among these front runners is poor things I was just I can understand why I mean it's also it's a almost two and a half hour movie well and it's still only playing in 750 theaters right but it's not like right knocking out great averages or anything right um They're probably smart to, like, you know, keep it somewhat limited before going big. But, like, it's the movie that needs those globe wins that it may not get.

Can we also say, the color purple comes out and wins the Christmas Day box office and then just goes away? Like, that's been really, really wild to see. That, like, when I saw it, our theater was not very full, and it was, like, a week after. not even a week after Christmas. I do think it speaks to the audience response. If nobody's going to be really enthusiastic, even its core demo, like, you know, of church ladies, basically. Because, like, the church ladies are the most reliable audience to, like, have a movie hold on for a while. This is going to sound unbearably snobby.

So, like, please bear with me when I say this. But, like, I didn't think the color purple was. that great. I didn't think it was bad enough that regular people would notice, if that makes sense. No, I totally get that because I, I mean, I thought it was, you know, for a mainstream movie perfectly fine. Yeah. What I was kind of came away frustrated with was how earnest and like unashamed its individual musical sequences were because, you know, we talk about market, you know, no musical is marketed as a musical because it's like it should be ashamed of itself for being a musical. And I think that that's invaded actual musicals

the way that the musical sequences have been filmed in a lot of recent musicals. And I didn't feel that in the color purple. No, my biggest problem with the- more upset that it was marketed in the way that it's been marketed. My biggest problem with the musical sequences and the color purple is they all seem to exist on an island, away from each other. There was not any real cohesion between them. I think you had some that were really, like, staged really well. I think you, I thought they couldn't have found a more boring way to present, I'm here, which is your signature song. They should have let her sing live. Or just something. Give you, like, those sets looked especially plastic during her number,

and and the staging of it was just very blah and very bland and it robbed that song. It felt like she was limited as a performer. I've seen that song performed on award shows and I've gotten more emotion out of it. Do you know what I mean? Like a song on award shows by Fantasia Burino. Yes. Like, yes. Yes.

Song on American Idol by Fantasia Burino. Like remember she came back the one year as a like former winner after she had been in the color purple on Broadway and saying I'm here and it was like tremendous. She sang it on the Tony's before. before she went into the show. Yeah. And I felt like the way that it was filmed was inhibiting her as a performer. Danielle Brooks completely innocent.

Also, the one thing that we were saying after the movie, most vociferously, was why haven't they been putting Taraji P. Henson in musicals for the last 15 years? She was my favorite performance. Since hustle and flow. Like, it's the same reaction I had about Erica Alexander after American fiction is, like, all this time you could have been putting Erica Alexander in romantic comedies. All this time, you could have been putting Taraji in musicals and you haven't. Like, that is a dereliction of duty on Hollywood's part. Like, that is such an indictment. One million percent.

Yeah. All right. Anyway, listeners, you can check out the Vulture Movie Fantasy League. If you go to vulture.com slash movies-league, you can see the leaderboard there, which will be updated by the time you're listening to this with the scores from the Golden Globe Awards. I'll be getting a new newsletter out sometime. Post-taste. Yeah, early in the week. Thank you for reminding me, Chris, that I have another thing that I got a chop chop on.

That's fine. Wait for the dust to settle on those globe's points. It'll be fine. We'll see. Um, anyway, uh, we'll be back to you, uh, with another update next week. But, um, yeah, go enjoy. We're, we're gonna, we're hitting the ground running in 2024. The Golden Globes. The Oscar nominations are just around the corner. Um, uh, let's go. Let's go. All right. Let's get into the page 28 of it all. Page 28, mama, hacha, hacha, macha, matcha. The way she was fingering that page too in that portrait at the end there where she's just like, Good portrait. Madam, your daughter is right there.

Like, what, no, she's just holding a book. What is more family friendly than literature? Lidiaritur. I want to know how she convinced the person who painted that painting to just be like, make sure that you say it's page 28. And the artist is like, well. If you don't do this, I will not sit for this portrait.

And they're like, why? And she's like, reasons. You don't need, yeah, reasons. Essentially, yes. Reasons. So good for that artist for taking her up on that. I'm pretty sure the page 28 reveal was another time that I audibly gasped in that theater. Uh-huh. It's worth it. It's worth it.

Is this underrated as one of the movies that when you see with me are a 40x experience? Honestly. Like we never talk about this. We've talked about it as widows. Yes. Be talking about it for his three daughters. Yes. Yes. Yeah, this was an underrated 40X. The final 10 minutes of this movie

I was spontaneously The CFX experience Chris File animated and Large and in Charge Yeah for sure Yeah Oh what a good movie All right we should really get into the nitty gritty of it though

Because I want to talk about the movie specifically But then also the sort of awards environment That if not conspired against it But like circumstances were not on its side I will say that Right, right. Yeah. Once again, thank you to Audrey for choosing this movie for us.

We are here talking about portrait of a lady on fire, written and directed by one Celine Siama, starring Nomi Merla, Adele, Adel, Luana Bosrami, and Valeria Galino, and no one else. We are going to talk about Valeria Galino, Mama. Like, I am going to have a hot shot shot discussion about Valeria Galino. Trust. I will, when the timing is right, I will ask you to just go off. Very good. This movie in its theatrical life was very interesting. It premiered in Cannes, in competition, in May,

had a one-week qualifying release after the Fall Festival Circuit, where it played basically everywhere in the first weekend of December, Yep. Got a limited release starting Valentine's Day weekend. Yes. We all know what was coming in the weeks ahead. Oh, boy. And then, yeah, they dropped it on Hulu, March 27th, 2020.

And you know what? Because what else were they- We were not feeling sexy in late March of 2020. So I definitely did not. dip back into Portrait of Lady on Fire then. So it was nice to be able to dip back into it now. There was so much anticipation of get it online, of getting this movie to people to see it. People were already pissed off about the qualifying release and having to wait.

And then when the qualifying release happened, it happened at about the most inconvenient time in movie going history. Yeah. So I think unlike a lot of movies, there was an impotent. to rush it into availability for people, you know, like, that was also, like, the surge of movies that were put on VOD, like Invisible Man, Emma Period. Emma Period, yes. I love that. What else was there?

Yeah. Oh, gosh. But they just put this on Hulu because part of, you know, Neon's agreement with Hulu. Right, right. I wonder how much longer that'll run as Hulu becomes more and more absorbed. You know what kind of sucks is that, like, I really like the current iteration of Hulu. Like, I feel like they- It's very searchlight forward. It's very search-light forward, but I think they've also found a good balance with

Searchlight in terms of what to put in theaters and what not to put in theaters. The, for as much as we, like, make fun of it and rightly so, the FX on Hulu stuff is almost always good. Like, all of those shows have, like, such good quality to them, and it's like, sure, of course. fuck with this one. Like make that, like, let this be your little sacrificial lamb. Disney is fucking up on so many levels. I can't even tell you. As Disney has gotten more in control of Hulu, I have found the like interface experience to get progressively worse. It only ever recommends five movies to me. It's recommendation function has always been, there are things that I'm in the middle of watching that they just like will not float to me on my main page that

I have to search for. It's so dumb. It's bad. It's bad. Um, Anyway, you can still watch Portrait of a Lady on Fire on Lulu listeners. If you haven't seen the movie yet, why are you listening to Dopes talk about it when you can go experience all of its glory? Indeed. Great movie that Joe is now tasked with giving a 60-second plot description for. Are you ready to do so? Yes, I'm going to ask you to just bear with me, but yes, I will, I will, I will, I will carry it out. Okay, great.

Your 60-second plot description for Portrait of a Lady on Fire. I will not do the French pronunciation of it. Starts now. She's just a lady and she's on fire. Wearing all her fancy clothes, but she don't want to be betrothed. She's just a painter and she's on fire. Talking about another girl. The story is about two girls.

Oh, hello, he seems real depressed. Marianne tries on her dress. Oh, they help the servant girl flee her unwanted pregnancy. This lady's on fire. At one point, her dress is on fire, literally. These ladies both are on fire. With sexual passion, that kind of fire. Looks like these girls have figured it out.

They really like when they're kissing, doing stuff that's culturally forbidden. It's all good till the mom comes back from her vacay. That's time. Mariana's got to split. Oh, years later, Marianne sees a painting of Heloise. Oh, she's painted next to her kid, but her fingers sending a secret lesbian messages. This lady's on fire. Listening to Vivaldi and trying not to look at Marianchie's on fire.

Okay, that's it. Both ladies are still on fire. Hottest wait for a glance across a room since Carol, which was also on fire. All hit their X button on you. You're done. All right. That was beautiful. What a lovely singing voice.

Yes, it's great. Give me a contract. Listen, that was some creativity, fucker. would have turned around and wanted you on that. Nobody. Literally, they would have turned me around. They would have hit a find another button that makes me face away from them. That's what they would have done. That they would have tried the trap door button in the stairs.

Suddenly, a secret third button. A secret third button. A secret third option that we didn't know was there before. Kelly Clarkson hits it and I go falling through the floor. Oh, all right. I hope you appreciate what I do for this podcast. And you, you did a great job. 30 seconds over.

I never would have predicted with the amount of plot that's in this movie that this would have gone that far over. But not only did it go over time, it went over boundaries. It went over...

Right. Whatever. You know what? Great movie. Great movie. Great movie that... Okay, I think part of one of the things

that I love about this movie it's you can enjoy it just on a pure like uh vibes level you can enjoy it just for the immaculate craft of it but then also there is something academic about it about the male gaze the female gaze yes the way women have been objectified not just in film but in art the way the movie sort of becomes the crucible for like one scene where they just like go into the woods and are dancing in a circle of women and you wonder if like if the men only knew what was going on in these woods chanting and also like lustful glances across a fire like what a great sequence that whole thing is like that's incredible what it means to capture a person like distill them down to their essence and like of course this portrait is supposed to be enticing to this Milanese, Italian husband that she's going to have that. That's where, that's who Valeria Golino is going to sort of fetch, right?

She goes to Milan to, and that's where she ends up at the end, I think. She is in Milan at the museum when she sees, or at the concert, maybe both. That last shot of Heloise in the balcony, and you're just like, is she going to look? Is she going to look? It's amazing. It's incredible. I also, can we just, like, go back to the beginning, though? I love any movie where somebody arrives at a place by a boat, by a rowboat that they had to take off of a bigger boat, and they're, like, bringing luggage with them, and they're just sort of, like, floating it along. She has to, like, jump whole body into the water in, like, 90 pounds of fabric.

And, like, she's, like, got stuff that can't get wet. And, like, it reminds me of the piano, where it's, like, also similarly, where it's just, like, Yeah, she's got to, like, travel with all her shit, and, like, this boat isn't going to, like, pull into dock because it's just this, like, isolated beach or whatever, and, and so there's some point they're just like, well, you figure it out, Marianne, like, go and row yourself to shore. But there is, but, like, that plays into it the sort of, like, the isolation of it, the, um, the out of, out of the boundaries of the world. of it, right, where... And it's just Brittany. It's just an island in between England and France. Wait, is Brittany an island, or is it

just sort of like a coastal area? God, don't yell at me. An institution, a national treasurer. Brittany is everything. No, it's either... Because I don't want to confuse it with the Channel Islands, because I know that's a whole other thing, and also

it's part of France. We're not a geography podcast. Oh, please, we are not. No, I think it's just day coastal area. But anyway, it's a peninsula. It looks to me like French

Ireland. Well, it's all these like high cliffs and, okay, you say that it feels like this commune while the men are away, which is somewhere. To the point where I'm like, how did this servant girl get pregnant? Is it an immaculate conception? Because like, we don't, there are no

we don't see men ever. Like, what's going on. You see men at the end of the movie, you know, when she's going to the, of course, men have to spoil everything, including conversations about art. We are not immune of this. But the men show up when, you know, we see her portrait, etc. The art show, whatever. You get to a point where it feels like, look at this oasis where there's no men there anymore. But I think when we first arrive on this eye. it feels more like it's a prison. For Eloise, it's like she is kept away. She is, well, I mean, she was pulled away. It's very Bronte, right? Where she's like standing on the cliffs and what is she thinking about. Her sister committed suicide, right?

That's the idea that her older sister, who was also betrothed to somebody. And that's why she was pulled away from the convent. Yes, yes. There are so many ties to our last week episode. Imagine a world where Portrait of a Lady on Fire and Sister Act. exists in the same unit. Essentially, it's like, well, we did Ammonite, and then we did Sister Act, and then, like, well, now we arrive at Portrait of a Lady on Fire, which has, you know, elements of both. It's much more romantic when the person with the career in this

story is a painter rather than somebody who digs into seashells for organisms, as Kate Winslet does in Ammonite. But on one, on a very important level, and I've said this before, this is a movie about two pairs of eyebrows, which could not be kept apart for very long, that they were just drawn to each other, just incredible, incredible prominent eyebrow work by both of these ladies, like, truly striking and beautiful. I don't want to compare the performances to each other, even though I think it's interesting that when I tended to see Adel Heinel more often singled out for her performance than Naomi Merlant, which I don't know. It's tough to, like, I think they work so well in tandem, but also, like, no way. is so, I feel like I'm in it with her more.

I think it's harder to make that character interesting because in so many love stories, that is the role that, like, we're less interested in, which, like, not to say that I'm more interested in her than Eloise. I don't think that's my read on the movie. The movie is structured to make you fascinated with Eloise. Heloise, Eloise. Right, right. And it helps that Adele Honel is as incredible.

and fascinating and enigmatic as that performance is. But I do think more often than not, the role that Nomi Merlant is playing ends up not being as interesting, not as idiosyncratic as her performance is in this movie. And yet, she's like, she's absolutely the one I gravitate towards in this movie, for whatever reason. I'm like, I'm, I just feel like I'm in it with her. I, I'm so appreciative of the work that she's able to. do and sort of like letting the story sort of read on her face so much of this movie happens

without outside the bounds of dialogue where um which isn't to say that there isn't dialogue in it but like so much of the story of this movie carries off on their faces and hers especially um especially at the beginning of the story you know where she kind of has to get an in with Eloise, you know, and it takes some time, even as Eloise is like faking out that she's going to go jump off a cliff. Right. Funny joke,

Eloise. Like, ha, ha, ha. Well done. Well, well, gestured. But, no, no, no, no. We definitely have talked way less about no me more launce in this performance as a culture than we did Adele Hano.

Well, and it's interesting, too, that like, the next thing I saw her in was Tar, where she's also sort of playing this observer of this much more, I don't know if you'd call Lydia Tar enigmatic. I think you would call her turbulently brilliant. But do you know what I mean? Where she's just like, well, yeah, that too. What was I thinking of? You've seen Maestro, right? Yes. I love how that scene laid in the movie at Tangle. with the younger conductor who he's teaching, who he then goes and dances with. Very tar-coded. Very.

But also, like, I was like, oh, that's, like, the best-case scenario of, like, that's the nice version of Lydia Tar, like, dismantling that poor Juilliard kids' entire psyche. It's, I mean, it's closer to the woman at the very beginning who's interviewing her and. where she's aggressor flirting, like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Super flirting, complements her on her bag, and in the next scene we see Lydia Tar, she has the same bag. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And we can presume they've maybe had sex, and then maybe by extension she stole that woman's bag, like. Oh, Lydia! But clearly she did not learn, I don't know, what did she learn from Leonard Bernstein about,

about the dealing with, I don't know, I don't want to continue this. You're right to point out Nomi Merlant in Tar, though, because I think that's another performance that so much of the what's happening, the business, the character arc is, has to be written on her face without actually saying what's happening. You are as much more explicit about what's happening because we're getting a little bit more context, whereas... But she has such a great face for taking it all in, right? For sort of, for synthesizing the visual information she's getting and sort of like

processing it on her face. And she doesn't have a very twitchy face. It's not like that, but it's, I'm really interested to see her in more things. And I hope she keeps getting cast in major roles in major things. You didn't see this movie where she falls in love with a, circus ride with a what with the what was that i think the i don't think the movie was called turbo maybe it was called turbo oh no look this up while i talk about it she turbo is a young woman okay who falls in love with and uh experiences sexual pleasure with a circus ride ride yes oh so like she's like one of those

like i fell in love with a ferris wheel basically but it's not a ferris wheel it's more like a tilt The world type of thing. But like you've seen those like television show or like news magazine episodes, right? I don't know what my strange addiction you're talking about. I would never. Objectum.

My friend and I when I worked at ABC were obsessed with objectum sexuality. And like that's what it's just like somebody who is like fully in love and has a... I never saw the real sex episode about dendropheliacs. What are you talking about? God, real sex was such a gift. 90s were wild. So this is coming out soon, or this has already been... Oh, it's years past.

I think it was like a South by movie. I definitely watched it during the pandemic. Jumbo? Jumbo. No, it's Jumbo. Oh, yeah. She's definitely in a... The poster is her in a sort of like headback pose of ecstasy.

Looking up into the lights of Jumbo. Tilta Whirl, the sort of like the bisexual lighting of a Tilta Whirl, and the pull quote from Indie Wire is a ride worth taking. Well. Wow. Well, my goodness. Wait, give me one second, because who is it directed by? It is directed by, um. Someone French?

What's that? Someone French? No? I would imagine. Belgian, Zoe Wittock, who, that's a name I know. Hold on. God, IMDB, you're a disaster. Oh my God, Nomi Merlant was in Lee. When will we ever get to see Lee?

Since we did not see it at the festival, because we'd already heard, it was bad. Lee very much does not exist. For the amount of people that are in that movie, including apparently Nomi Rolant. Yeah. Yeah, really not a movie that exists on the planet? I just saw that, uh, foe, by the way, speaking of one word, movie titles of movies that were rejected

in some way or another by the... I've seen people tweeting about it now that it's on prime and they're like... I want to see it. I want to... What can be possibly so bad about this movie that it got that, like, universally roundly shot? What could be so bad? From friends who saw it, they're like, yeah,

it's just that bad. Like, I can't explain it to you all of them to say. I got to see it. That doesn't help me not wanting to see it. Right, right. Yeah. apparently the twist is stupid and obvious. Nomi Merlant has a credit from 2019 from a short film just called Shakira, and she is credited as cosmetics saleswoman. And I almost don't want to know any more about it, because I just want to imagine that Nomi Merlant,

oh, she wrote and directed this short, fantastic, that she plays somebody at a cosmetics counter who Shakira approaches the pop star Shakira approaches the counter and wants to buy something and that's the entirety of the short

that's what I want that to be. That's great. It's going to exist in my mind that way. She's a cosmetics counter associate who eventually you know crafts this statue of Shakira. Have you seen the photos of the Shakira statue?

No, I haven't. I will find it. I'll put it on the Tumblr post if I were... Shakira approaches the cosmetics counter and says, lole, lo la lae, lo la. And she's Like, I have exactly what you're like...

How is LoLay, LoLole, LoLay pronounced in French? I literally saw it one time as subtitled, and I was, like, absolutely blown away. It was really something. I couldn't remember exactly what it was spelled, how it was spelled, but... Oh, boy. So good. Talk to me about Celine Siama. Okay, so this feels like a real catapulting into the stratosphere for her.

The second that this movie premiered. as it can, even though she, to my understanding, is not loved or appreciated by the French French industry, a French film going public, and she is much more appreciated abroad, especially in America. What do you think that's about? I'm French people. It's about misogyny. But, I mean, it could also, I mean, there is a certain element of, you know, certain

filmic sensibilities are not always appreciated in their... Like, James Gray is treated as a god in France, and here people are like, James Gray, you know, like... Yeah. You know, his movies are seen as masterpieces in France, and here, you know, they barely get seen. Yeah. And, like, unfortunately, the other French examples that I have of similar things are also female filmmakers like Claire Deney, who is not appreciated in France, but, like, Western

audience is lover um or at least west of france france is western um so keep going very west of france and you'll finally hit land where people love clare dineate like at some point just keep on sailing you will arrive in brooklyn yes um so selen siama i had already seen girlhood at this point and girlhood i still haven't seen girlhood and i really really should uh it has a great lead performance it's a it's a really strong she just has such a strong visual voice selen siama's close-ups are uh of her own they're so incredible and uh girlhood was made semi-famous because it has that sequence set to riana's diamonds yes um that which is like 90% of the reason i want to watch that movie i'm not going to lie it's a great it's a great sequence um and like selin siama reached out to

Rihanna herself and got approval, et cetera. Also, Zaline Siamah had been known for Tomboy at this point. I don't think I'd seen Tomboy ahead of this movie. When was Tombo? Oh, I think Tomboy was even before Girlhood. Interesting. Girlhood might still be on Criterion Channel. I definitely recommend of that movie.

Yeah, Tom Boy is 2011. Yeah. So in Saline Siamas, you know, screen credits as it stands now, there is also, what's this movie called? It's water lilies, I think. Water lilies is the one I sort of, I know, and Adele Hamel is in that one. And I've seen that. I don't love that movie quite so much. But Portrait of a Lady on Fire in this kind of strange way is this outlier in Celine Siamas. filmography, you know, because the rest of them are focused on young women underage, like teenagers and, you know, pre-teenage. I was going to say, Petit Mamma, and even younger, just, you know, little girl. God. But all of her movies are just, like, really rich with feeling.

They're, like, not to be corny about it, but they're movies that you can kind of feel your way through. But I think Portrait of a Lady on Fire, what's interesting why I think it's so well directed is like, yes, it's a movie that's so, like, rapturous, you know, like, I'm the person who's gasping when it cuts to black at the end. But also, it's a very heady movie, too. Like, you can fully intellectualize this movie in terms of what it's saying about objectification of women, the, like, study of women, how it relates to the male gaze and the female

gaze in an interesting way that I also don't feel like is to I don't know if this is a movie anybody would come out and be like well that's pretentious, you know, any of its ideas. Right. I don't think it's limiting in that way. She also

I'm finding here on her filmography page, she was a script consultant on a movie called Bird People that I saw my very first TIF, friend of the podcast, Nick Davis and I saw it together. If you're going to TIF with Nick, you're going to see some movies that are well off the beaten

path. And, like, that's, it's this Pascal Ferran movie called Bird People that is set at a hotel in Paris, but, like, Josh Charles is in it as an American businessman. And I, I've never really given it a ton of thought afterwards. It was good. It was all right, but, like, it hasn't, like, nobody else ever saw it, so I never really talked about it with anybody. So, like, it just kind of, like, receded in my mind, but I was like, oh, yeah, that really weird bird movie. She also is a writer on My Life as a Zucchini or My Life as a Corvette, which was a surprise animated nominee at the Oscars. That's right.

What an interesting career, genuinely, and what a really kind of fascinating career. Petit Maman was one of my favorite movies of 2021, I will say. That's the one. We saw that one at, at virtual Tiff. And what, that movie loses nothing, I think, in the experience of seeing it. So long as you're like, you know, keeping undistracted. It's not this sort of like grandiose movie. Certainly with an 80 minute runtime or whatever it has. 80 minute runtime and it's just sort of, it's, I mean, it looks beautiful, but it's not this sort of like, oh, you have to see it on the,

biggest screen possible you know what i mean like that kind of a thing it was one of the ones that i think they did a drive-in for at tiff which i remember watching it on my computer that i'm like i can't imagine watching yeah that movie outside outside yeah like i hope there were some trees around or something like it should be on a lake watching that movie every time i talk about that movie i sort of get this nagging little thing at the back of my head being like should a movie that exist so high on my top 10 just because it made me feel so happy. But like, I don't think it, I don't think it takes a cheap route to get there. You know what I mean? Even though it's about, you know, just like, you know, what would you tell your, your, very rigorous. Well, and it's like

talking to your mother throughout the generations and that whole kind of thing. But like, it's so well done. And it's so well written and paste and like, et cetera. The information sort of, like, gets to you at exactly when it needs to get to you. You really do sort of, like, take an emotional journey, not to be, like, you know, a cliche about these things. But, um, absolutely, for as much as I love Portrait of Lady on Fire, like, Petit Maman is, like, that's my shit. Like, that's my jam. Well, the movie, both movies, I think, are composed in a way that you, you're supposed, you as an audience member are so invited to take emotional

consideration of every type of development, every reveal that happens. You know, it's part of the fabric of the movie that you are supposed to feel and think about all of the information that it's giving you. I think, I mean,

part of the power I think of Petit Maman is, is like shortness, it's brevity. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's right. It really feels like this thing that's packing so much feeling into a small package. Yeah. That, like, it kind of makes it even or so.

Yeah. I think Portrait of a Lady on Fire is a better movie because there's so many more access points into it. Yeah. Or, like, opportunity for you to get something you weren't expecting from it. Yeah, I can see that. Um. And yet also, like, this is not really a dig against, against Portrait of a Lady on Fire.

But, like, I do think it's sort of, it carries off the way you're, the way I was expecting. You know what I mean? It's like, I don't think it ever, like, so surprises you. Like, once you sort of get locked into the idea that, like, oh, these two women, like, the first second you see them look at each other, you're like, oh, well, this is where it's going to go. And I think where it, where it shines is the way it tells that story. But it's like, even though, even in a marketplace where we don't get nearly as many queer love stories as we could, I'm like, oh yeah, like, I've seen this story.

And I mean, like, I know how this one's going to go. But it's the telling of it that I think really, really captivates me. Well, there's power in that simplicity, too, because the story is so simple, but it can really fill... You know, the leanness of the story with a lot of emotional and intellectual detail and texture. Like, literal leanness, too. Like, literally, like, there's a lot of empty space in this big house. It's like this big house and there's, like, not very many people in it. It's this, you know, this sort of like this wide canvas of like a beach or a, you know, I don't know, everything seems very.

the world is sort of, like, they're the only two people in the world sometimes. I know there are other people actually there, but, like, there are times, or even when it's just, like, them two and, like, their friend, you know what I mean? It's like, you've hung around with your couple friend before, and it's just like, and sometimes you're just, like, having a good time, and sometimes they help you, you know, get rid of a pregnancy, and, and it's, it's all in good fun, so. Sophie is an interesting foil to these two characters, I think. Yeah, yeah.

Luana Bajrami, I really like... I also think, I mean, she's an interesting... Foyle's not the right word. Like, counterpoint... Yes. Both in character and the performance of it. Her performance feels so much more maybe modern. Even...

I wouldn't go so far as to say anachronistic for what a young or a teenage woman would be for that time. Yeah. But there's a certain, you know... If Nomi Merlant is the very classicist type of acting classic on-screen woman, and then you have Adele Hanel doing, like, mid-century, like, revolution, leave-alman expression. Luana Bajrami feels like the actress of today, giving... Yes, I...

Yeah. It's a young Winona rider could have excelled in a role like that. A million percent. Joe, because we cannot completely set her aside, go off on Valeria Galino. Okay. So Valeria Galino was an actress who, for a long time, I thought of him might have imagined, because, like, I saw, she was so prominent in my life in the early 90s, where it was like, late 80s, she's in Rain Man. She's Tom Cruise's girlfriend, who is sort of, you know, pushed to the side of that story once it becomes a road movie with the two brothers. And then, after that, she was in Hot Shots playing The Love Interest for Charlie Sheen. And the first Hot Shots is essentially just, it's a Top Gun parody. So she's essentially, like, whatever passes for, like, a Kelly McGillis role.

But she's just basically, like, you know, the love interest. And she's very funny in that. And then for some reason, Hot Shots Part Deux is a Rambo parody. Like, it's sort of like same characters, but like it's now it's a Rambo parody. And now the Charlie Sheen guy is no longer, you know, Tom Cruise in Top Gun. Now he's Stallone in Rambo. And it's also like the climax, they have to go to the Middle East and like Saddam Hussein is a character. And they get like a Saddam Hussein impressionist or whatever.

it's so dumb, but it's so funny. And Valeria Galino has like two or three really fucking great comedic, like, deliveries in that one. One of my favorite jokes of all time is when it looks like she's been shot and died and he runs over to her, and he goes down and like sort of like lifts her head up, and he sees that she's alive, and he goes, I thought you were. And she puts a hand to his nothing. She goes, Gabriella Sabatini, I know.

I get that all the time. And like, it's such a good joke. But there's this whole other thing where, like, Rowan Atkinson plays her husband who had been, like, kidnapped by these, like, paramilitaries. And they were trying to, like, free him. And they free him. And he's just, like, an absolute turd. And, I don't know, just like, if ever you want to watch something truly doesn't

dumb, but also funny, but also has some, like, really clever jokes. And, like, Lloyd Bridges is so dumb and fun in that movie. And, like, there's, I don't know, Hotchath Part Due. I'm a weirdly, like, partisan to it, but Valeria Gallino especially. So then, after that, I don't think I saw her in anything for, like... She largely goes back to European films. And that wasn't where I was watching. I mean, she's fairly prolific there, but, you know, not always in movies that reach the states.

Well, right. And so, like, for my intents and purposes, I was like, well, I guess I imagined Valeria Gallino. And, and I'm trying to think of, like, the movie that I saw her back in, because it wasn't, Portrait of a Lady on Fire wasn't the first thing that I had seen her back in, but it was like, what would it have been? I'm trying to go back through her, um, sort of oughts output. And I don't know what it would have been even. Um, she's in Frida. She's in Frida. Yeah, maybe. Yes. But, like, God, it was so awesome seeing her again. Or maybe it was it was this. And then, I don't know. I don't know. But anyway, the point is, Valeria kind of rules in this movie. And I love, she's sort of, she almost has a self-knowledge of the role that she has to play in the meta of this, right? Where she's, you know, it's almost like she doesn't. Like, she doesn't relish having to be the person to sort of acquire heterosexuality for her daughter, right? Where she's just like, sorry, I'll be off for a few weeks. I'll be acquiring some heterosexual. When I come back, it'll be time to be heterosexual. And it's just like, well, and it's like, she's not mean about it. She's she's a little, she's exacting a little bit.

And she's, you know, unyielding about it. But it's mostly that because, like, she knows her role in the, whole thing. And she's kind of, she carries with her that notion that like, this might not have been the exact thing that led my daughter, my other daughter to kill herself in the exact same way. But like, there's, you know, certainly pushing these demands of like, now you got to go marry some gentry somewhere and is not what my daughters want to do. The solution is not to not force your other daughter to do this. The solution is to. Well, there is no kind of really ensure that this does

seal the deal for this other daughter, you know, like, it's this whole backwards logic. She seems to have a like, if she doesn't know exactly what went on while she was gone, she sort of has a, she does a pretty good idea. And

as she sort of, she sends Marianne on her way, not unkindly, but also with like no wiggle room, which is just like, you'll be leaving. And that is, you know, and that's the end of that chapter, of a thing. I think she's a great performer in this movie.

Yeah. Yeah. Also, speaking of female directors, she is herself a director, though I don't know any of them that have reached the States. She was also last year in a film that co-starred

Albra Warwacker, along with some other people, called Marcel with an exclamation point, which I can only imagine is another Edith Piaff movie. Two hours of Marion Cotillard screaming Marceau. What was that? What was that joke? When Marcel LaSelle came out, I said that to you. I was like, Marcel! Marcel, the show! No, the joke was like reading off the animated feature winner at the Oscars this year, and it was just like, opens envelope. Marselle!

Marselle! Oh, my God. That's so tragic. that movie. I shouldn't make fun of it, but it's, she's wailing Marcel. She really, really is. Okay. I'm glad we're both on the same page about that. Masselle. All right. I'm going to ask. Let's talk about Adele Hanel. Okay. Because, I mean, like, maybe we're saving it for last because I do think that this is truly an incredible momentous performance. I forget if she was my winner that year for lead actress, but she was one million percent. No, she wouldn't have been because it was Lizzie Moss.

Yeah, Lizzie Moss was mine as well. Talk to me about this, because I think you feel about this performance a little bit more passionately than I do, but, like, a lot of people also do. So, like, I am probably an outlier in this. I think it's just the amount of detail. This movie is obsessed with her face. Right. Right. She was in a relationship with Celine Siama for a number of years, I believe, and, you know, she is the muse of this movie.

and movie is so fascinated by her and her face and just, like, the minute expressions that she provides and her physicality, which fully doesn't work. And the movie doesn't work if she isn't as interesting to watch, if she isn't as fully convicted, you know, from the toes up in the mind of this woman. She also, like, kind of cut it up in the press afterwards, right? Didn't she, like, I feel like there were some... leave as the, it was either the Euros or the Cesar's that she when they gave an award to Roman Polansky

in this day and age, she storms out and justifiably. Yeah, yeah. She's since left the industry, which is, of course, to all of our loss, because of the French industry's

rampant misogyny and racism, etc. She's now mostly working in theater. She hasn't done a movie. since this movie. Interesting. I just think the level of expressiveness, like we were saying, you know, there's not, it's not just that there's not a lot of action.

There's not even a lot of dialogue in this movie. And we can still see, we can still understand and feel the full trajectory of this character. And then again, obviously in that long take at the end where she's, you know, getting her life to Vivaldi, I think, you know, it's this subtle character. her arc the whole time that we know that she is going to live a life that she doesn't want to live, but she can still, we see that she still in some way as having something for herself, that she can still be of the world. Her page 28 as she wishes to be.

Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, that whole arc that she goes through listening to Vivaldi, apparently, like, she had a whole trajectory that she was going through emotionally in her mind, and we never get to witness. That's got to be... That's catnip for an actor, right? Where it's just like, oh, I get to, like, have a whole private performance all to myself while the camera is, like, fixed on me.

Like, I am going to... Right, that none of us will be privy to, and also that's the point of the movie. Yep, yeah, yeah. You know, I think... I think the movie doesn't work without her performance. And what she is tasked to do is so difficult that, you know, this is a movie about G-A-Z-E, not to Kate Blanchett, Cinderella interview of this. But it is so much about that. And it puts a lot of pressure on an actor to be enigmatic in a way that you're going through that arc,

but allows the story to still be about how we can't ever. ever just... Yeah. We can't fully understand this woman. We can only imprint upon her. Right. Um, as a muse.

It's fascinating. Let's talk a little bit about the Cannes Film Festival. Uh, in your notes here, I'm just going to say, of course, a portrait of a lady on fire was, uh, in competition at Cannes. It wins the screenplay award. It wins the queer palm. Parasite, of course, wins the palm. And we'll talk about Parasite in a second, but you have unanimously.

Uh, also in competition were a motivation where, I'll motivate her. of our's pain and glory. Quentin Trinantino's Once Upon in Time in Hollywood and the Butt movie. Chris, refresh my memory. What is the but movie? What are we talking about? You will not get out of a conversation about this can without getting into the but movie. Also known as Mectube, my love, Intermezzo, which has not been seen. Oh, this is the blue is the warmest color guy. Yes. DeLatif Kashish, known as the director of Blue is the warmest color, the most

overrated, and I would imagine instant buyer's remorse movie of Cannes in my lifetime, maybe. And yet, Leah Seidu continues to flourish, and what's her faith? And we get a Dalek's

archipelopeal. broke up the horrid relationship between whatever passages. Speaking of sexes, in the French industry. This man also gotten into basically

legal troubles and wrangling with the financing of this movie. He sold his palm to finance this trilogy of movies, the second of which played can competition and never again saw the light of day. It was four... Go and read the reviews of this movie

if you want a good laugh. Critics describe it as basically four and a half hours of extreme close-ups on jiggling butts and people twerking to club music. I've had just about enough of you deriding the cinema of big jiggling butts.

So big jiggling butt cinema has... I'm telling you, one of my favorite days on Twitter was the reviews of this movie where it just sounds like there were hours and hours of footage of close-ups on butts of dancing young women,

which like obviously sounds gross. but the critics who essentially and they also like premiered this movie at like 10 o'clock at night so American critics are basically in a fugue state not understanding what the hell they're watching and it you know it gets trashed by the press there's also controversy because there's some like explicit sex in the movie that it sounds like was not

he plied his actors with alcohol in prepping them for it so it's like maybe this movie shouldn't be seen but you know sometimes it's not nice and not fun when a movie becomes the butt of the joke literally I was going to say did you was that on purpose? Did you walk into that one?

I didn't I you know again I wish I had been doing my can pool for this can it feels like this would have been a A real dragging of a movie at a festival sometimes can just be the stuff of legend and this is one of them. But like as with

if you look at like as with a lot of Cannes like a lot of the same names sort of show up. So this particular one, Jarmush is there with a movie I didn't really like very much The Dead Don't Die. Not a movie. Ira Sacks with a movie I still haven't seen Frankie.

I will evangelize that movie. Terrence Malik with a movie. That's a good movie. I still haven't seen a hidden life. Malik's a hidden life. And I know that that's what I've heard. Xavier de Lawns, Matthias, and Maxime, which was a step up from the sort of, like, there were no, like, savage reviews of Matthias and Maxime. I think it's kind of, you know, so-so. Yeah, I didn't think that movie was great, but, like, yeah, it's so middle of the road.

It's almost like, why did they put that in competition? I'm going to put a pin in Le Miserables for a second. Arnold de Splechine for a movie that seemed to go really kind of nowhere. Once Upon a Time in Hollywood was great for Tarantino. Pain and Glory was great for El Mottivar. Both of those end up at the Oscars. Obviously Parasite. We'll talk about that in a second.

But, like, Justine Triet had Sybil at this one. Ken Loach, of course. You got the Dardens, of course. As long as there are Cannes film festivals, there will be Ken Loach and the Dardens. But, like, they didn't really have much of a impact with their movies. It really was, but like the ones that really had an impact, really had an impact.

Like, the Baccaro was also at this can, which I fucking loved Baccaro. Baccaro rules. But like Parasite really hit the ground running here. The jury rumors were that until Parasite screened, the jury was prepared to give the Dardan's a third. Palm. For Young Ahmed. Which did not get good reviews, but that jury really liked it. And they, I think, gave that movie direct.

Can we just, like, for any future, can jurist listening to this? Um, don't make the Dardens your fallback. Just like, consider the larger picture of things. here right like if you're gonna give it's it's it's what the oscars failed to do with merrill and her third if you're gonna give the dardanza third it's gotta be real fucking good you know what i mean and and anyway um at this point the thing okay so this is our second queer palm winner we've ever done after pride um what if there was pride um but this movie also wins best screen play award which i think rightly was seen as kind of a consolation award.

And I feel like best screenplay does actually shake out to be the consolation prize for a lot of movies I can, rather than awarding movies for the screenplay. Because to me, like, I understand someone maybe put it in this on a directorial triumph. This is an acting triumph. This is a directorial achievement, not a screenwriting achievement. You know, this is... And again, you don't have to give the Dardens anything. They're going to be just fine.

Like, give Celine Siama the director prize. Yeah, absolutely. Unimpeachable top two wins, though, between Paraside and Atlanax winning the Palm and the Grand Prix. Well, and I just love that, like, also, can we talk about the, like, bangers, all bangers jury of this one where it's... This is a cool jury. In Yara, too, is the jury president, which, whatever, somewhat of a divisive figure. But, like, Robin Campillo, who had just directed BPM, is on this jury. Jorgos Lantamos, Pavel Pavlikovsky, Kelly Reichert, Al-Fanning, as the, like, you know, representative of the actress class, and certainly the American representative.

Sometimes they'll just, like, throw in an American actor just to be like, this is somebody you've heard of. But, like, I'm fascinated. I would love to talk about, to talk to Al Fanning. about her experiences on this jury. Like, what an incredible experience this must have been for her. I think that's where maybe she actually... I think they're not really allowed to talk about the votes, but I thought that she had said something indicative of that jury

really loving the Dardan movie. But, yeah, the rumor was they were going to give that the palm. Okay, so, um, wild to me. Uh, Le Miserab, which is not an adaptation of the musical, but a, uh, crime. The Victor Hugo novel. Right. Uh, it's a crime thriller. It's sort of like, like how Lady Macbeth, Florence Pugh, the Florence Pue lady

Mcbeth has nothing to do with Lady Macbeth. Um, but this is a contemporary sort of crime, uh, thriller directed by Lodge, Lodges Lie. Laj Lee. Laj Lee. Thank you. What would I do without you? For these pronunciations. But what happens there is that film

becomes the French official French submission for the Academy Award. And it wins the jury prize at Cannes, which is the bigger prize and is much more appreciated by the French industry. I watched it because it did, obviously,

got the nomination at the Oscars. I watched it as I was sort of... And it does well throughout the season. Cleaning up... Well, I sort of jotted everything down there, and I'll talk about that in a second. But, like, having watched Le Miserab in the sort of hectic, got-to-finish-everything rush of the end of Oscar season was maybe not the best atmosphere to watch it, but I also, like, I don't think it did a ton for me. And... I didn't like it. I can respect the kind of craftsmanship. I think Lausie. Lee could be a really interesting director, though his follow-up Le Indesarible or something like

that at TIF this year, didn't talk to a single person who saw it. Oh, interesting. Didn't hear anything about it, which, I mean, you know, going from being a can darling to debuting a movie at TIF is not, right, right. You know, but so, because Le Miserab gets the French selection, Of course, Portrait of a Lady on Fire is not eligible anymore for the Oscar, but if you track through the major foreign language film awards through that season, Oscar, BAFTA, the Globes, the Independent Spirit Awards, critics choice, four movies really sort of stand out there. Obviously Parasite, which was a, by that point a phenomenon,

which was well on its way to winning Best Picture. Pain and Glory, Almodivar's Pain and Glory, which also got Antonio Banderas his first Oscar nomination. Le Miserab was on four of those five. I think Parasite, I think everything was on four or five, right? Pain and Glory, four or five, yes. So Parasite was on four of those five lists. Pain and Glory was Le Miserab was.

Portrait of a Lady on Fire was. And then it was sort of like, well, what's your wild card spot? And the Globes chose the farewell because they can choose American movies that are in foreign languages. the critics' choice went with Atlantics. God, we have to really respect the critics' choice for that one, don't we? I know. It feels unusual. The Indy Spirits being the Indy Spirits

sort of had a different rubric, so they had the souvenir, the Invisible Life of Uridisi Guzmao. Which got abbreviated to Invisible Life. That was the... I mean, I have this tab open, I can double check, but I think that's the Uncertain Regard winner. It is. That is a movie that I've

often told people they need to check out that's a really good movie um did that also have a girl duarte is great in it did that also have a thematic connection to the Greek myth of Eurydice which would have made for

I am not great on Greek literature because they talk about that obviously in Portrait of a Lady on Fire they talk about the story of Eurtee and this was of course the same year that Hades Town opened on Broadway so this was a big year for old Eurydice and Orpheus, so good for them.

Invisible Life is just a great movie that I would tell people to watch. Cameo by Fernando Montenegro from Central Station. The Oscars went with a film called Corpus Christi that I definitely saw and remember almost nothing about. I definitely did not like it. Honeyland was the double nominee in documentary and foreign language film, and I really liked that one. I thought Honeyland was really good.

I'm going to love when that happens. Yes. Any more, like, documentaries are leaning more and more international with the Oscars in recent years, too, and there is a potential for that to happen again this year. There is. I believe four daughters is so good. I saw that. I saw that you really liked it. I really did.

I liked it a lot. Yeah. 20 Days in Marrioux Poll is also on both. I love a movie like four. daughters where it's just like, we're going to put people from different life experiences and different generations in a room. And even though the thing they are here for is not to have conversations about like stuff, they're just going to have those conversations anyway. And it's going to be like really illuminating and fascinating. And just like, that's that whole movie to

me. Like the superstructure of the reenactments and whatever is almost secondary to just like just putting all of those women in a room together and having them talk. And I agree. that is one of the most powerful things about that movie. For me, it never kind of transcended its artifice. It felt like as powerful as it was. It was kind of like dragging the artifice with it. I can't. I can understand. I see what you're saying. And like I get that. Yeah. There's a there's a way that like movies have done these like yeah uh hybrid fictionalization the oppenheimer movies you know like vardo Joshua Oppenheimer's movies yeah yeah active killing um yeah in a way that like that felt so much more like

at a certain point yeah you just buy the reality of what you're watching but i almost feel like that was a conduit towards to having these conversations and maybe that was like a happy accident whatever but like either way it really worked for me so we'll talk about that more in the future um as we are rounding the two more mark um but i think the reception at can for this movie and the doubled with the fact that it doesn't end up being the french submission builds a reputation and this is partly why it's i think became so popular online because uh everyone roots for an underdog online is that this movie is kind of of a cause of getting it its own due.

To the point that I am surprised that it didn't specifically for Claire Mathan as a cinematographer. Yeah. I had forgotten how much we were mentioning her name that year. Yeah. To the point that it is really surprising that she didn't get a cinematography nomination. She also shot Atlantics, which is a movie that somehow looks even better. better than this movie does.

I'm glad you brought up the cinematography, though, because, and I say that I just said we're rounding the two-hour mark, but I did want to. I made a list of all of the cinematography nominees at the Oscars since 2000 from foreign language, like from international features. Okay. And I wanted to see how many of them you could guess off the top of the dome. will say that one, two, three of them were best picture nominees in that year. One, two, three, four of them were the winners of the foreign language film International

Feature Oscar that year. And three of them were lone director nominees. So maybe that can give you a little bit of a head start. Okay. I feel like I might have had a lot of those examples. Amelie. Amalie is one of them, yep Cold War

Cold War is one of them All Quiet on the Western Front Correct A very long engagement Yep Which does that even really count As international Because Warner Brothers funded something

Close enough, yeah But yeah close enough Eda Yep Parasite wasn't Should have been Right Where am I

How am I... Did I say Alquite on the Western front? You did say Alquite on the Western front. You've gotten five of 16. There are definitely two more best picture nominees that... So, from international features, that would be... One of them won best director. Oh, Roma.

Yep. Some of these have to be earlier in the 2000s, too. One of them... Oh, House of Flying Daggers. Yep. Crouching Tiger I was going to say Follow that back to its

Yeah, natural point There has to be Oh, white ribbon Yep You still need Two more lone directors One of them was like A shockingly surprising

Oh diving bell in the butterfly Diving Bell and the butterfly is one One was a shocking Like we had forgotten about this movie City of God City of God Yep One of them is kind of surprising

that it wasn't a lone director nominee considering that we both assume that it would have been a Best Picture nominee in that year if it had been 10. Interesting. From somebody who would eventually win Best Picture and Best Director. Oh, Pan's Labyrinth.

Yep, Pan's Labyrinth. Okay, so you're missing one, two, three, four, one of which was also a director who would win best director, not for this movie, who had already won best director. Had already won best director before this cinematography nomination? Yes. You liked this movie more than the consensus. How interesting.

So this has got to be semi-recent. Yes, very recent. And a cinematography nomination. What am I forgetting? It's only nomination was a cinematography nomination. Yeah, the lone cinematography nomination that kind of sticks out of like a sore thumb that I can't get my brain past as a lighthouse. That doesn't count. Right.

This one, you, this is a two-time best director nominee. That's going to give it to you right away. Oh, okay. Or two-time best director winner. Sorry, two-time best director winner. It's going to go. Oh, okay. So Quaron?

Nope. um oh uh bardo bardo yep yeah okay so you're missing three of them one of which was directed by like an all-time great world cinema director one of which is kind of forgotten because it was the same year as a sort of surprise lone director, a nominee, and this one was sort of also in cinematography with it. And the other one was starring somebody whose vocal inflections we parody on this podcast a lot. Brenda Blethen. No. But think of, like, what have we talked about a lot on this podcast episode, this week's podcast episode? French people.

Oh, so a French person. No, but, like, but why were we talking about French? why what's in France French people Like what event The Tour de France No The Cannes Festival

Yes so who have we talked about their vocal patterns In relation to the Cannes Film Festival a lot Oh Monica Balucci Yes so What Monica Balucci? Melena Milana yep Yeah

Okay So Two more Two more Um Who directed this movie this movie. This was such a forgotten movie, even though it was like, um,

I feel like it was a surprise nominee for cinematography, but like, not that much of a surprise. I didn't really like this movie very much. Um, oh, right, its director has like a comedically long name. And definitely I included. Florian Henkel von Donner's Mark never looked like that. There you go. That movie sucks. That movie is bad. Yeah, I didn't like it. Like, it's not, it's shot. by like Caleb de Chanel I think that's probably

right I think that's right I did not even think it looked particularly good last one a giant in terms of

world cinema right yeah it was Caleb Deschnell by the way you're right it was it was a very well-reviewed

movie but you never think about it and like name this person's like five signature movies you don't really like Think about it in that way, but...

Can I get the country? It's China or Hong Kong. Oh, okay. Oh, it's got to be Christopher Doyle for... What? Oh, it's the Grandmaster. It's the Grandmaster. It's the Grandmaster.

Oh, Philippe Lussaud for the Grandmaster. Oh, Philippe Lus Ward. Yeah, right. Yes, it was Hong Kong's entry for foreign language film that year. Right. But it did not get nominated. So, yes. Got all of them.

Claire Mothon, would have designed. I think this is also the flattening of what is nominated for craft categories. That's part of that problem because... Joker's nominated. Yeah, the lineup is 1917, the Irishman, Joker, the Lighthouse, and Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. I mean... I know you don't like the cinematography in 1917, but like that would be not... I don't think that's a flattening nomination.

I think that is a... No, no, no, no, no. That's a showbo-y kind of a thing. Yeah. That's a personal taste thing of why I don't like it. It makes perfect sense that it's there. It makes perfect sense that it wins. I think in the same way,

I would not have nominated the Irishman, because I don't think there's anything particularly remarkable at the Irishman, but, like, it's Rodrigo Preeto doing cinematography for Martin Scorsese. Like, that'll get nominated this year, too. I would say it's much more deserving this year. But anyway, I don't even really get behind the Lighthouse being nominated there, though I love that the Lighthouse. House is an Oscar nominee. I was going to say it's

such a like... It's more indicative of the fact that it's in black and white than it is anything about the look and feel of that movie. It's laziness in this branch that they just fall for the black and white movie. I love Robert Richardson's cinematography on Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, but if you bumped that for

a portrait of a lady on fire, I would not have been up in arms. I would have said maybe bump Joker instead. But... The... Oh, yeah, 100% jump. Bump Joker. the category is three times better with her placement here if you replace any of these nominees.

Agreed. Agreed. Yeah. All right. Any last thoughts before we... I guess we didn't talk about Parasite a lot, but the thing about Parasite was like, that was where Neon put all of their efforts towards the Oscars.

And again... Same for Clemency when we talk about Clemency. It's when we talk about movies that A-24 did. didn't campaign for in 2016. It's like, well, they went for moonlight and they were right to do so. And same with neon. It's like, well, like, they put all their effort behind Parasite, a movie that was such a long shot. There are so many movies. You don't under, like, you do it. If you're listening to this, you understand. You're a freak like us. But like, I think in about 10 years, it's going to be hard to remind people that, like, you don't understand how many good movies

were completely sort of out of hand dismissed as an Oscar contender because they were X, Y, and Z, right? They were not in the English language. They were about, you know, subjects that are traditional Oscar fair, or they were, you know, so many different things. But certainly in the case of Parasite, you would have absolutely had a Cannes Film Festival where everyone's like, yes, Parasite's absolutely the best film. Too bad it won't be nominated at the Oscars because it's in, you know, it's not. in the English language, and it would have gotten shunted to international feature, and that's all there is to it. And kudos to Neon for knowing what they had there, that that was a particular subject matter and execution. And just, they knew that they had a crowd pleaser on their hands.

That's the thing about Parasite is it's not, you're not eating your vegetables watching Parasite. You're going on a ride. You know what I mean? And they kept the furnace fed on that movie constantly. The gas never let up on that movie. and, like, it almost kind of needed that time. I feel like, I mean, I'm not patting myself on the back. I feel like I was one of the earliest to call it for parasite that year. And I was like, you just look at the reaction that that movie receives in the room. And you hear these reports of, like, all of the parasite people get swarmed.

And it's, like, it's Brad Pitt swimming them. Like, Hollywood ignored movie stars to pay attention to the makers of this movie. Like, uh-huh. I didn't want to bring it up on this episode, but my good, good friend, Tony Smith, early, early that season, I have a text from him, which he would continuously send me screenshots of,

proving that, like, so early in the season, he's like, Parasite is winning Best Picture. So I owe it to him to give him that credit. Oh. You know, great movie, Parasite. I rewatched it a few months ago, just on a whim, kind of. And I, like, as I'm, like, starting the movie, I was like, oh, God, I hope in this watch, I don't feel that thing that sometimes you feel that it's like, we, everybody went all in on this thing.

And, you know, it may be, even if it's still great, it doesn't live up to how all in we went in on that movie. I know what you mean. I know what you mean. Yep. Yeah, no, we were absolutely right to go all in as much as we were on Parasite. That movie still fucking bangs as as much as it did the first time you saw it. Yeah, absolutely. All right, good episode, Chris. You know what? Good episode on a good movie.

Good movie. Yep, absolutely. It was in the unfortunate position tenfold in so many ways, but I do think this is one we love. Oh, before we go, I do want to talk about the 2020 site and sound poll

where this movie got shit on so much for first of all it's not a bunch of people in a room sitting together and deciding on things separately this movie got enough votes on the site and sound poll which is significant they do it every 10 years and like

I think it's useful just as a way of like how has the canon changed what has been invited into the canon And what ended up being invited to the canon was a lot more movies made by women directors including Chantal Ackerman's John Dealman winning number one and leading to people like Paul Schrader complaining that there's like I hate to you to say

to even say woke as a pejorative in the way that they use it in a pejorative because oh it's apparently just woke to say that I don't know, women exist and make movies. Shut up all of you. But like, I have no issue. Portrait of a lady on fire got lumped into some of that. But it's also like that it ranks number 30 of all time. And it's this brand new movie.

That's, I don't want to, I'm not going to sign up for, for whatever. I don't care about Jean Dielman. I don't. Like, that's number one, great. Like, work, party. You know what I mean? John Dielman, I think, is incredibly influential. I have no issue.

with that. That's, I have no issue with people expressing their taste in that way. My thing about Portrait of a Lady on Fire is number 30 is I have such, I'm so itchy when it comes to that kind of recency bias because I know that like there's no possible way to have any kind of perspective on that. I think any kind of list like that should put in a barrier of at least five years where like you cannot vote for anything more recent than five years. And I know that like the whole point of the poll is to be as unfettered as possible to see, like you say, where the canon is at and where our lines are moving. And I think that's all very well and good. I just, I get itchy when I see something like that. I'm like, you can't, you can't say that about a movie. It doesn't end up

observing a movie like this, too, because then, of course, any, any of the naysayers the next time that it's done, they're going to look and see where this ranks in the hopes of dogging on it. You know, it doesn't serve the movie. Well, and then it puts that, like, unconscious thing in the back of your mind of if you are filling out a ballot of you know that you that you are now thinking of a handful of movies being like oh god there's going to be a big deal about like where this thing is placed like when they do the next site and sound poll you're not going to be able to either vote for or not vote for jean dealman without having it in your mind that like what is this going to say

citizen cane yes that it's like everybody gets so show me about citizen cane yeah being AFI's number one movie or whatever. Yeah. Anyway, but that's my only thing. It's just like, it's, you can't, I, you know, it's so, it's so recent. I do, I do think that there is something that doesn't help the movie to allow, because, like, I think people would have had the same complaints about if Parasite had ranked that high. It's just like people are going to.

Yeah. Be unfair to Parasite or any other movie that's that recent, you know. And like, this movie doesn't, does. serve that because this is a great movie that serves great things. All right. Joe, would you like to explain the IMDB game? Oh, yeah. Every week we end our episodes with the IMDB game

where we challenge each other with the name of an actor or actress and try and guess the top four titles that IMDB says they are most known for. If any of those titles are television, voice only performances, or non-action credits, we mention that up front. After two wrong guesses, we get the remaining titles release here's as a clue. And if that is not enough,

it just becomes a free-for-all of hints. it's the IMDB game Are you giving or guessing first? Are you lighting the fire Or are you, the logs Which are being lit, I don't know I sure I, you go first because I got to find

I got to re-find mine Oh, okay No, I got it, but yeah, you go first Oh, well, what would you prefer that? You go first Okay, okay So for you I looked across various women

Who have been in on fire in movies obviously we have done Katna's Everdeen, the girl on fire Jennifer Lawrence previously So I chose for you In previous roles On Fire, Ms. Fomka Johnson Oh God

The Phoenix herself, Dark Phoenix Okay, Fomka Johnson is going to be No television, so no highly problematic NipTuck. Can I tell you problematic or not, she fucking ripped in that. She slayed, like

in a 2006 slay or whatever in this like, wow, there is a reason why NipTuck is like not on streaming. Okay, so here's the triangulation that I'm going to go with with Fomka is. There's at least one X-Men movie. There could be as many as three.

I don't know if you would have given me Fomka if there were three, which makes me think there's two. there's also her Bond movie There's also Taken But in both of those cases Well I don't know She might be second build and Taken honestly

Isn't she in like a cast All of Taken I've never seen those movies What's that? No, in only one of them she's in a cast I think it's just the first one Anyway I'm going to say X2 X-Men United

incorrect fuck off all right uh the first x-men yes correct okay thousands x-men golden eye golden eye correct xenia on a top um take what a crunch i mean like i love it like honestly legend but like the crunchiest bond girl name oh i know like yeah it's very It's like they might as well have named her Xenia horny Or like Xenia fuck as with many things The Austin Powers movie really killed Like Christmas Jones tries it But like the Austin Powers movie

Really killed the ability to Name a Bond girl as a pun Like once you've done a lot of a china Like you really can't You really can't go back Unfortunately I do think Ivana Hump a lot Is still very funny It's very funny.

It is. It's very funny. Okay. I'm going to guess taken. Incorrect. All right. Give me years. Your years are 1999 and 2006.

Okay. 2006 is X-Men, X-Men 3, X-Men the last stand. Correct. All right. 99. Oh, is it like the House on Haunted Hill? House on Haunted Hill. Wild.

Wild and crazy. Okay, House on Haunted Hill. I definitely recorded off of Paper View. when I was younger and watched it constantly. Watched it for the first time in 20 years recently, that movie is bad. Yeah, it's not good. It should be so good.

And it's so not good. It should be so fun. And it looks like shit. It's not fun. There were a lot of movies. That was around the time they did The Haunting, obviously, which was like notoriously bad, where they like, they really tried to remake a lot of those really fun

Vincent Price, you know, uh, uh, uh, what's his name. Um, I will always stand up for the dark castle kind of movies. I will always stand up for dark castle. Yeah. Just as a vibe. But like so many of them like squandered the opportunity. They were like remaking house of wax the way they did. I'm just like, good Lord. Remaking house of wax is torture porn. I was like, what a fucking waste of, you know, whatever. All right. Anyway. Um, anyway. Hoomst for me. Humes for you. So I transitioned from Portrait of a Lady on Fire to The Portrait of a Lady. And can I tell you, we have done IMDB games on everybody in the cast of the Portrait of a Lady, where I'm like, Shelly Winters?

Yes, bitch, we did Shelly Winters. Like, okay. But the one person who somehow we haven't is Little Baby Christian Bale, who's in that movie as a Wii one. So hit me with Now these ones I'm going to see if you can hit this four for four Because I will just say right off the bat These are not obscure film

Sure Well I wouldn't have thought they would be obscure But I'd like you're not getting the machinist in here I mean that's not yeah Yeah I wouldn't have guessed that American Psycho No Okay so right off the bat it's a no I would have thought that would have really hit the algae

go for the not to broadly speak on people but for the white guy and their parents' basement demographic. Wow, okay.

Even though I don't think that that's like the demo for that movie, they love it. The Dark Night. Correct. The Dark Night. I do think that there's going to be something weird Oscar-y happening here in that I think it's possible the fighter is not there, but

the big short is not the big short two strikes all right your year's all 2005 2010 and 2013 2005 2010 and 2013 yes

so 2010 is the fighter yes the fighter his Oscar I would have thought something weird would have happened there um so no more Batman

well Batman Begins is 05? Yes, Batman Begins is 05. So, 2013, it's going to be a significant movie, so it's not like out of the furnace. Right. It would be hilarious if out of the furnace was on.

It would be. It would be. But it's not another Batman. No. It's too soon to be vice or... Any other... No, it's American Hustle. There you go.

It is American Hustle. Yes. Interesting. His worst Oscar nomination, American Hustle. I American Hustle Defender. Can on paper get behind that nomination, but absolutely not in that year. No. Yeah, that's even worse about it.

It's just like that year. Ugh. All right, well done, Chris. Good job. We did it. We did it. This girl is on fire. We love French cinema.

In our Patreon Selects month. Yes. Might not be our last French movie. No, maybe not. Maybe, maybe not. Who knows? Either way, that's our episode. If you want more this at Oscar Buzz,

you can check out our Tumblr at this at oscarbuzz.com. Please also follow us on Twitter. It had underscore Oscar Buzz on Instagram. at This Had Oscar Buzz and on Patreon at patreon.com slash this had Oscar buzz. Joe, where can the listeners find more of you? Letterboxed Blue Sky.

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