This Had Oscar Buzz - 272 – 8 Women (Patreon Selects)

Episode Date: January 15, 2024

Our Patreon Selects series continues with another dive into French cinema! In 2002, director Francois Ozon delivered an actress bonanza with 8 Women, an homage of Douglas Sirk and Alfred Hitchcock that’s also a musical and also murder mystery and also a celebration of the biggest French actresses of the moment. Set at Christmas, its titular … Continue reading "272 – 8 Women (Patreon Selects)"

Oh, oh, wrong house. No, the right house. We want to talk to Marilyn Hack, Millen Hack, and friends. I'm from Canada water. Dick Pooh In a place. In a place where you can't trust anyone, How can anyone trust?

How can anyone trust eight women? Eight women. That is the question. Hello and welcome to the This Had Oscar Buzz podcast, the only podcast that is making Vivaldi blush. Every week on This Had Oscar Buzz, we'll be talking about a different movie that once upon a time had lofty Academy Award aspirations, but for some reason or another, it all went wrong. The Oscar hopes died, and we are here to perform the autopsy. I'm your host, Joe Reed. I'm here, as always, with my tacky cardic spinster aunt.

Chris File, hello, Chris. Five dollar words. not $50 words, tachycardiac? What? That's what she says at the beginning, right? I'm tachycardic. She's, that's her, her condition. She's got a... But it's like there's not really a condition, so... Well, of course. She's... What's the $5 word?

Suffering from the... She's got, she's got a heart thing. You know, she's got the vapors. I don't know. You know, she's, you can't... Also, there were... Okay, so... a window into my creative process, which is chaos. I go to watch this movie last night, and I'm like, hey, Chris, this isn't available to stream anywhere. And he's like, yes, we have this conversation. And I'm like, we had this conversation over a month ago.

Well, I think that's probably part of it. It's just like, I was like, oh, I don't remember that at all. I literally was like, what did I say when we had this conversation? So we had to scramble Sometimes I feel like you think I'm gaslighting you When you're like I don't remember that conversation I do sometimes think it happened I'm just losing my

I'm losing my mind it's fine Chris was able to help me scramble And we found a I'm gonna say Redacted Redacted Redacted Redacted Redacted Redacted Redacted Redacted Redacted I'm trying to think of like what like Central or Eastern European country

was able to... We'll just say Joe got a VPN. Yeah, let's just say. But anyway, so I was able to watch eight women on this somehow. And so I'm watching it, and every time Isabelle Uper is in a scene, I'm like, am I watching the 1.5X, like, speed version of this? No, it's just so fucking funny in this movie. And so fast, she's like, she speeds herself up to a way that, like, I can't imagine we're going to talk about it. It's really, really incredible and so incredibly funny. But as soon as I saw

those scenes, I was like, well, of course, Chris has been so, you guys, you listeners don't know. You don't know how excited Chris has been to talk about this movie. Every time we would talk about the schedule, Chris would be like, eight women, we're going to get to talk about eight women. And I'm like, uh-huh. It's just a fun frothy, well, I mean, YMMMV, but, uh, it's just so fun. It's everything that I think of when I think of like, oh, the kind of thing that Chris would love, which is like actresses, these actresses in particular, Isabella Père in particular, this particular blend of genre throwback stuff, Holiday Inn, as filmed by Douglas Cirque, as interpreted by every French actress who was a thing in the early 2000s.

and and like it's a it's a it's a chamber comedy it's a chamber farce that is also a murder mystery that is also a musical that is also herald their lesbians and it's just like oh okay like is horhe milina seen this horay if you're listening get out us if you've seen this movie yeah yeah um it truly does check off an absurd amount of boxes yeah for or, you know, things that I love. I mean, I'm not going to sit here and say that this movie is a masterpiece, but this is a movie that I have an amazing time with.

I'm not saying, only Chris Files could love this movie. I'm just saying only Chris Files could love this movie could appreciate this movie as much as you can. Because it is, it's targeting all of the things I am. I love it. It's hitting all your pleasure

centers at once. It's really kind of amazing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. All it needed to add was like a, um, sort of comment on straight society well that but also like a a doughy notary public who is you know not maybe like uh who's like a who's like a who's like a plus rather than like an a in terms of like the hotness level but it's just like i resent this b plus a remark who were we talking about just last night i like a bookish man i like a who on drag race It was just like put some glasses, put some glass, you are a very clark catcoded.

I saw Geneva Car's confessional and I was like, that one, right there, that one. Tell me I'm wrong. Tell me I'm wrong. That would have completed. Genevacar has a very nice smile. I think Geneva Car is very cute. Like trust and believe, I think Geneva Car is very cute. Anywho, we're back with our fifth Patreon selects.

How have we done that many so far? That's crazy. Well, because of yeat. And then this is the third in this month. Yes. Right. It's just going to be a stretched out thing because then we'll hit these are going to go into February because we also have to have class of 2023 this month. But this is our four.

That's in two weeks. Get excited. Yes. Also get excited because the Oscar nominations will finally be here. It's so funny that you say that I feel like they've come incredibly quick this year. I feel like we have not had... The strike probably adds to... That's probably true.

But I just feel like we have not had time to have that sort of, like, weird two or three week period of, like, things are changing, but nothing's really happening, but things are changing. Oh, oh, oh, we have time to talk about this right now. Yeah, because we're going to have to do the Movies Fantasy League moment. Is Francis Fisher going to Andrea Riseborough? was the first thing I wanted to bring up for the movie fantasy league. Let's just do that now. Let's just do that now. Okay, okay, okay. First of all, I think next year

you need to add points. If Francis Fisher does a social media post about any movie, automatic 50 points. Automatic 50 points. Any movie. Any movie. And maybe if she posts about a movie a second time, that's 100 points. Well,

100 points instead of 50. Honestly, you're not wrong. I'm so... All right, so let's get the... Vulture Movie Fantasy League, we're going strong. The update that I sent out the other day in the newsletter was the most Frankenstein, like, game of...

What's the game, Exquisite Corpse? Where you keep, like, telling a story and everybody, like, adds on a thing. Every time I'm like, well, now this newsletter's ready to go. It's just like, and here are the DGA Awards. And it's just like, nope, but this newsletter is ready to go. ARP Movies for Grown Robs, and it was just like, okay, and it became this absolute behemoth, absolute behemoth that began with the Golden Globes. So Oppenheimer womped ass at the Golden Globes and was kind of the first big indication that, like,

this is going to end up, like, you kind of need to have Oppenheimer on your roster, because I do feel like it's going to keep... I think that's probably true. Going to keep going and going to keep going, which is not to say. say that it has best picture locked up, but like even, let's say we did this in the year of 2015 with the Revenant and Spotlight. I think even if you had, you know, if we had the Fantasy League that year, the Revenant probably outsold everything that year, right? Just because like, even if it lost at the end, even if it got nipped by Spotlight at the end, it won so

much in the lead-up and even on Oscar night in the lead-up that like so even if Oppenheimer does end up getting nipped at the end by holdovers or Barbie or something, Killers of the Flower Moon even. Anatomy of the fall. Yeah, sure. Then

I still think Oppenheimer is going to end up just like winning so, so much. But anyway, Barbie also won at the Globe's Colors of the Flower Moon one. poor things is you know sticking in the mix i don't i think poor things is going to be a very good pick for people in terms of like what they paid for it and what they end up getting from it so um box office wise wanka continues to do really well um uh anyone not going to get those number one

bonus points anymore number one bonus points are probably dead for the game what's opening this weekend that's going to that's going to kill it mean girls oh that's wild that mean girls is going to get number one i i will say this i have heard some good reactions from people who went into that movie skeptical i would rather chew glass i'm not watching that what is what is your what is your problem do you hate them the do you hate what you've heard from the musical of that score that i've done uh for that for when the musical was on broadway i'm sorry to some of you i think that those songs suck i like a few of them a lot i think it's also just intended as

IP cash grab because it was originally supposed to be on Paramount Plus. Of course. It's just, I, I'm going to have some hesitancy to throwing down my dollar at those movies anymore. I'm excited to see it. I have to

say, I'm excited to see it. Anyone but you continues to rise at the box office, which I kind of love. Iron Claw is going to end up as like the sixth biggest earner in A24 history. We talked about that a little bit last week. Um, so after that then, we had National Society of Film Critics, which, like, was a very, like,

I'm tired of the same two or three things winning. We're going to give some other things, some awards, which I really liked past lives. I would probably also argue that, you know, usually national society, like, comes through for something, and I feel like that didn't happen this year. I think L.A. and New York were largely more interesting than what they added to the conversation. Oh, I really liked National Society's lineup, but I like past lives a lot better than you. I love that they gave it to Andrew Scott for Best Actor. That was cool. That was cool.

But, like, they did sort of just, like, rubber stamp Melton and Dave I and Joy Randolph for supporting him. That was a little boring, but. But AARP Movies for Grownups Awards was a little disappointing with some like significant exceptions. I think they are still going to be the only ones who are going to, well, they didn't show up for 80 for Brady or air, which is wild to me. Well, they dropped best buddy movie or whatever. They dropped a lot of the fun category. They dropped Best Grownup Love Story, which is my big headline for this. the Movies for Grownups Awards.

I can't believe we have lost one of our great categories. My prediction that they would have the most predictable nomination in nominating Viola Davis for Air and Sporting Actress did come to fruition. They did show up for Viola. They showed up for Viola. They showed up for Taraji P. Henson. They showed up for Leslie Uggams in American fiction, which was fabulous. Really?

That's a great. That's an AARP movie showrunnups. We'll move into the SAG Awards. The SAG nominations. I feel like we talked about this. Did we not talk about this? About how... I don't know if we talked about the SAG nominations or not.

I feel like I've made this... No, because the SAG nominations were this week. We at least haven't talked about it on Mike, I don't think. I feel... I'm getting the sense of deja vu where I'm talking to you about how Netflix, when it comes... Oh, maybe when we were recording screen to us, I don't fucking know. Netflix is better for, is a, is a SAG is, sorry, I'm going to start this over because I don't know where my words are. When it comes to the SAG Awards, which are the more populous precursor, the availability of films on Netflix is a boon for Netflix at the SAGs when it comes to Maestro and Nyad and Rustin, but not so much for May December, because May December is,

not going to be a movie that's going to appeal to the sort of broader voting body that SAG represents. The whole thing where like SAG is a much more sort of nationwide precursor group than kind of anybody else who's voting. I definitely mentioned this. I can't remember at what point. But anyway, so I think that played into these nominations where everybody was jumping off of buildings being like, it's over for May, December. you know, it's, it's, we're, we're finished. And that's right, because we did, it's going to get Oscar nominations. We did our Patreon episode on Wednesday.

Oh, yes, yes, yes. That'll be coming, well, today. Today, go to the Patreon if you want to hear us talk about this a little bit. Yes. But yeah, I mean, May December is going to at least get, I think, a screenplay nomination. I think it'll be fine for Charles Melton to get his nomination, but it may just be those two. And probably Julianne's. I think Julianne's got a really good shot.

I do. DGA was pretty straightforward. It was the five most sort of, if you were ranking most likely best picture nominees, it was the top five, and all of those directors got nominated. For Fantasy League purposes, the more interesting categories were documentary and first-time feature, because you got points for 20 days at Mario Poll. be on Utopia and the Michael J. Fox movie and a 1,001, Shada got some points for a first-time filmmaker.

I was glad to see that show up finally somewhere. And then American fiction in past lives, which have both been doing very, very well. So, oh, but the other interesting thing is, in addition to all of this, we also got a Rotten Tomatoes points. So I want to talk about the movies that hit the 100-point tier for Rotten Tomatoes, which is 96% on Rotten Tomatoes or above. of, which sometimes it's just sort of like, it's interesting to see documentaries and foreign language films really over, not overrepresented, but like heavily represented

and concentrated here. Part of that is fewer critics review those. I think part of that is sometimes American critics who do review those who are maybe not as accustomed to dealing with documentaries and foreign language films, just sort of like rubber stamp fresh, you know what I mean? Because they don't want to under, you know, they don't want to unfairly malign something that they're not maybe as well versed in. But then you get stuff like, Are You There, God, It's Me Margaret. Rad. Love that. Blackberry. Very interesting to see how strong those reviews were. Teenage Meat Ninja Turi. I hated that movie. I cannot believe.

that that movie is so well-reviewed. I like that BlackBerry... BlackBerry is, to me, the better version of Air. I think the way that everybody liked Air is my feeling on Blackberry, which is... I thought it was fun. I thought it was genuinely fun.

I loved Jay Barrichelle. I thought Jay Barrichel was really, really good in that movie. And... Every time that I see Glenn Howardton show up on a supporting actor ballot, I am like, what crack are you all smoking? Glenn Howardton and Blackberry is the exact same awards case, though, for Mark Wahlberg and The Departed. I know we're very, like, we've talked about The Departed a lot this week because we recorded our screen drafts episode. I felt the same way when Welberg got nominated.

It's just like, oh, are you just getting nominated for, like, yelling swear words loudly? Like, okay, well. But anyway, I'm, color me surprised that Mission Impossible was 96% fresh on Rotten Tomatoes. I thought there was a little bit of an undercurrent of dissatisfaction with that movie this year. And that's why I'm kind of surprised that. I think with audiences, probably, but not with critics. Interesting. Interesting.

I love that Robot Dreams is there. I love that too, because that's such a good movie that if Neon had pushed at all, it would be getting an animated feature nomination. We haven't really talked about what do we think the animated feature nominations are going to be? Um, I think it's going to be the PGA 5 and then sub in something for Super Mario, probably... What were the PGA 5? Remind me? Boy in the Heron, Elemental, Spider-Man, Super Mario, and then Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, which, yeah, maybe not Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, just because of what people kind of think about that franchise. It's such a bummer that Super Mario Brothers is going to get in there just because it made all that money. I don't think it is going to get in there with Austin, though.

I think Illumination has gotten like one nomination ever. Okay, so then you said the PGA, but then who are we swapping out for Mark? I guess maybe not. Maybe I spoke too soon because I'm not too short. Teenage Mean Ninja Turtles, if people would watch this one, they would see that it's really good. The way that people feel about Spider-Verse is how I feel about Teenage Mean Ninja Turtles. Nice. It's just so, it's, like, there's such a creative gamble of we're going to cast just teens as these teenies, as the characters.

And it pays off so well. Yeah. Nice. I love that. Yeah, I liked it a lot. But I do think Spiderverse Elemental Boy and Heron absolutely getting in. Yeah. And then kind of who knows.

Yeah. I mean, I don't really see it happening for robot dreams as much as I would love. love it to happen. Yeah. God, what even are the other movies? I do think Wish is dead. It's not going to be Wish. Do you think Migration, because it's done so well at the box office, very late in the game?

I might have said that, but it's also Illumination, and they don't like Illumination. But maybe they'll just, like, at some point, maybe you just get over it. You know what I mean? And maybe because they made so much money with Mario, and they're like, well, we're not going to give it to Mario, but we'll give it to Migration. I don't know. Could be interesting. But anyway, the topic of the hour, Chris, we've delayed it long enough.

Francis Fisher has kicked the machine into high gear in support of Ava DuVernay's origin and specifically ingenue Alice Taylor's performance in origin. I could not have been more tickled when I saw that this was happening. Just like, it's, it's the same, it's the same thing. It's the effusive Instagram posts that end with a call to action. I've seen people copy and pasting the... It's the bespoke screenings. It's the gathering of just like name five actresses.

It's literally named five actresses because it's like Francis Fisher, Rosanna Arquette, Catherine Keener, Andrea Reisbrough. She's paying it forward, man. It's like it genuinely is like a pyramid scheme a little bit. And I love it. It's a multi-level marketing operation to get one best actress knowledge. nomination per year, and I fucking love it. It's less targeted than the two Leslie thing, though, because that was all about just Andrea Reisborough.

I know. And this is like, origin broadly, maybe a little bit of that energy towards Antoneu Ellis Taylor. If they put it all towards Antoinette Taylor, they could make it happen, but like, because it's just like... Do you think they could make it happen for origin on the top 10 on the best picture list? honestly yes because the 10th slot does seem very in flux and if they're telling people just like you got to rank at number one on your ballot you know what I mean then I think I think it's possible that behind the scenes they are saying that well they can't say it on the only thing she got in trouble for was saying vote for this right in your first spot we only need X number of votes to make it happen and right that's what she got a phone call about right but like you can't really track it if people are saying it in person. And we, like, I mean, if, if it does happen, unless there's a narc. It proves that, like, the Hollywood Whisper campaign is truly a thing and that people

do talk about gaining the votes in the way that, like, you know, people like Steve Pond have always talked about, you know, online. And now, you know, guess Francis Fisher reads old Steve Pond interviews. I'm also on the record is not really liking origin as a movie. I don't think it works, but I do think Angelou Ellis-Taylor is really good in it. Well, we were saying in the group, I said in the group chat earlier this week, I was like, of all of the things that the movie try, that all of the things about that movie

that are a swing and a miss, that, like, I respect the swing and the miss of that movie, but the thing that, like, unequivocally works and is good in the movie is Anjuneo Ellis-Taylor. Yeah. So, good for her. And the thing that was also going around was her, like, showing up at an AMC and passing out, like, postcards

about origin, and it's like, well, that's a bummer. Yeah. But, like, Ava DuVernay's in the director's roundtable, you know what I mean? Like, that movie is still in the conversation, and I just, it was,

I could not, I saw that that Instagram tweet, or that Instagram post, so late at night. So, so many people were already in bed. All I wanted to do was just scream it from the rooftops. It's just like, this is happening. That's all everyone talked about in the morning. I mean, like, first of all, the Hollywood Whisper campaign thing is just, is confirmation

of something we always knew was there anyway, but like in some ways it can be bad, see, too Leslie, but also caveats to that because Andrea Reiswe is a good performer, even though I don't like that performance, et cetera. But, like, maybe it could be a. I don't know. Here's the other thing. If this was happening among, say, uh,

directors or like actors, male actors or like studio people, I'd hate it. Because it's happening among a cadre of mid-level actresses, I fucking love it. It's so genuinely, like, tickles me. If it was, like a bunch of people at the top,

saying we're going to push through Matt Damon for air to keep our like top tier people through then it is absolute nefariousness If this was an Affleck brothers and Matt Damon machination I would vehemently despise it.

If it's about reinforcing the order of Hollywood then it's unequivocally evil though like there's not you know knowing people and like using connections you know it's not you know it's not unwhatever But then so is the whole system of, like, promotion, et cetera, because then that's the only movies that the academy is important.

With friends and feelings and whatever. And like, that's, that's fine. But I also, even if this was like, even if it was like the big little lies cadre of like Reese and Laura Dern and Nicole Kidman and maybe like Jennifer Aniston gets in on it, I would feel a little bit of a certain way. It's just like, oh, the glamour girls are like, because it, like, because. this, honestly, it's the, that picture of Francis Fisher and Rosanna Arquette and Catherine Keener and Andrea Reisbrough. I was just like, oh, this is perfect. This is absolutely, this is the only real ones no group. You know what I mean? Where you're like, you mentioned these names to like most normal people and they're like, who are you talking about? The only one who looks earnestly

happy to be there is Andrea Reisbrough. Everyone else either looks like a hostage or a keeper. or the kidnapper, i.e. Francis Fisher. Katie and I both came to separate because, like, I said it in a different chat that Catherine Keener looked like she had been taken hostage and she absolutely does. That's great. It's so great. Hope it happens. All right.

Movie Fantasy League, uh, check it out. Movie Fantasy League, I want to point out. I am still number five among the podcasters with my like total rank moving up. I don't think I'm going to keep it for that long since I don't have. Poppenheimer, so I just want to brag now. It's a good brag. Ruggowski Crop Top is hanging in. Where am I even? I'm still

very low. I did not... My flyers, taste of things has not pulled through the way we're going to talk about it, this episode. I would have hoped. We are going to talk about it in this episode. Where do I even stand? Oh, I'm not too far, not too far behind you, at least.

You're 11th in the podcast league. That's fine. But anyway, in just the general, we're going to shout out Charisma May December once again, because like, in the general... Holden out. Holden out, like, very, very three points away from first place at this very moment. So, go get it. I haven't added, I don't think the, as I'm talking about this, PGA points have been added, but still.

We now have four. Count them four Gary's in the top ten. Yeah. Garys are killing it. Like, you guys are making us very proud. Um, mommy and daddy are very proud of you. So, um, who's mommy?

I'll be mommy. And that's probably true. Why did you say it that way? Why did you say it that way? That's how it's so. No, because I'm the, I'm the mean one. Well, okay. That's true.

Um, all right, vulture.com slash Gender essentialism brought to you by this. That's up to your son. Vulture.com slash movies-dash-league, go and check out where you stand, and you can follow the game there, sign up for a newsletter if you already haven't. It's been a very fun time, and we have a good two months to go still,

so let's hit it, what's being going to happen. All right, back to the matter at hand, eight women. This is our fourth film in the Patreon series, because we have one more to go, and it's a five-film series. The second, if anyone was like, well, why didn't they talk about more about French language films than Oscar last week? Because we knew we had another one. Indeed.

Indeed, we did. Chris, do you want to, actually, I will read the statement from our patron who selected A Women. This comes to us from Dana. We all thank Dana. For giving us this fun movie. All right, so says Dana. In 1978, my parents bonded over an Oscar quiz on the day that they met. Good Lord, what an origin story.

I'm interjecting here as Joe. What a great origin story. This is the origin story to end all origins stories, Dana. All right, back to Dana. My mom said she knew my dad was someone special when he knew the difference between Lillian and Dorothy Gish. So to say that the Oscars are in my DNA is an understatement. The first ceremony I remember was 1997. my nine-year-old brain was sure that Shine would go home with more for some reason,

but the first Oscars capital E event was the next year with Titanic, which I watched while wearing my homemade Mrs. DiCaprio bead necklace. I attended my first Oscar party in 1999, where, complete with formal wear, my mom encouraged me to tell the guests that my dress was Vera Wang. The sight of Roberto Benini climbing atop those chairs was burned into my retinas, and I had my first experience grappling with celebrating the art verse, versus the artist Ria Aaliyah Kazan. It wasn't until

2001 that I transitioned from obsessive to fanatical, mainly due to rapid onset Nicole Kidmania after seeing Mulan Rouge. I was then radicalized by the hours and the world of online actress standing in 2002, and the rest is history. One of us. One of us. One of us, for real. I love that.

Dana, also thank you for giving us a potential merch idea if we ever decide to do merch with the Mrs. DiCaprio necklaces. Oh, I love that. You know, I mentioned this when we recorded our screen draft Scorsese episode that I've moved into more of a DiCaprio positive phase of my life with some of those performances. Big change. So you will wear that necklace. Something has changed within me. Something is not the same. That's what I say. But I say it about liking Leonardo DiCaprio in the Departed and Wolf of Wall Street more than I used to. Okay. Um, uh, speaking.

Speaking of which, this drops on Mondays, if you are someone who listens to us right off the bat, tomorrow, Tuesday, you will be able to hear us, along with Katie Rich, over on screen drafts, drafting, Scorsese movies. We have such a fun time. Yeah, we had a very good time. It was very fun. All right, Chris, do you want to tell our listeners about this head Oscar buzz turbulent brilliance? Yeah, this episode comes to us today from Dana, who has been a sponsor-level supporter of us on Patreon for three consecutive months. So Dana got to choose this episode. We only have a certain amount that we're at capacity for the sponsor level.

But otherwise, you can join us for $5 a month. What are you going to get when you join us on this head Oscar Buzz Turbillant Brilliance for $5 a month? You're going to get two bonus episodes every month on the first. We have what we call exceptions. These are the movies that fit that this had Oscar-Brose rubric but managed to score some nominations. Most recently, we've done Charlie Wilson's War, but we've also talked about Rob Marshall's Nine, The Lovely Bones, which was selected by our patrons, Australia, Katie Rich, our first guest over on the Patreon. Then also on the 15th, you're going to get a second bonus episode that we call excursions.

It's deep dives into things that we are obsessed with here on this head, Oscar buzz, different ephemera this month. Dropping today, we've done another Hollywood Reporter roundtable, this time on the 2018 director lineup. You'll also have recaps, like on the 96 MTV Movie Awards over there. I went to Magic Mike live. We have a good time. You have a good time. So sign up for this had Oscar buzz turbulent brilliance over at page. trion.com slash this had Oscar buzz. Thank you. All right. I'm so excited to jump into

eight women. I feel like we shouldn't dither anymore than we already are. Our topic today is the 2002 film Eight Women, directed by Francois Ozone, written by Francois Ozone and Marina Devon, based on the 1958 play of the same name by Robert Thomas, starring Catherine Deneuve, Isabelle Lupert, Fannie Ardon, Emmanuel Bayard, Virginia L'Dioin, thank you, apologies to all of France. Danielle D'Arreou, Firmine

Richard, and Ludovine Sagné, and what a cast it was. We'll talk about it. It premiered. Quite the moment of early aughts, French actresses. Honestly, yes. The premiere listing, I think, is very

funny, because this thing sort of went all over, went all over the globe, premiered January 8th, 2002 in its native France, then played the Berlin Film Festival, among some other festivals, then opened in limited release in the United States on September 6th, 2002, and then a few days later played the Toronto International Film Festival. So, a fairly circuitous route not often imitated in terms of release strategy, but it was kind of everywhere also. Like, I was not very plugged into foreign cinema in 2002, and I definitely heard about eight women.

So that, I think, says a lot. Played my local independent cinema for a while, but for some reason escaped me, and I didn't see it in theaters for some reason. Do you have a sense of when you ended up seeing this movie? Not until I think college. Maybe I even watch I know I watched it during the pandemic That felt like the first real time that I saw it Anything that I saw in college at this point or high school

Feels like if I haven't seen it since then Sure A rewatch would be like a first watch Yeah I feel the same way I definitely feel the same But yes I love this movie Also the second official Focus feature

release. Oh, yeah. We're going, we should talk about the focus features. From the, like, USA films to the, like, weird transitionary period. And then the first was possession. When I fired up my library DVD of eight women, the first thing that played was a trailer for possession. Wait, what other trailers do you remember?

I think it's just the possession trailer. Okay. Nice. But I could have also just fast forward it. Of course, I'm going to watch the possession trailer. Of course. Also, support your local library. Certified movie possession.

As we mentioned, this movie is not as available as it should be. No. But support your local libraries. That's what I have to say. That's the lesson. That's the lesson here. Also listen to and maybe write down notes about conversations you've had about when you're going to watch movies.

And then you'll remember that you have to acquire a DVD. Or if your friend says, I'll just buy a DVD for this of you so that you. Your friend can also know that one of us has a DVD floating around of this movie. Yes. Except that. Yes. Okay. Chris, a 60-second plot description is in order, and I am going to ask you to provide it.

Are you ready for 60 seconds on eight women? So that works out to how many seconds per women? Quick man. Seven and a half? Seven and a half seconds. All right. Get ready. Get ready. All right. Your 60-second plot description for eight women starts now.

Bonjour, Joya Noel. It's Christmas at Catherine Dino's house, and she's celebrating with her daughter, Susan, and Catherine, her sister, Isabella, her mother, who's in a wheelchair, her husband, Marcel, asleep in his room. Marcel is discovered murdered with a knife in his back, and because the dogs weren't barking all night, everyone thinks that the killer is in the house with them, or, like, one of the people who's there. Marcel's sister Fannie Ardon arrives. The dogs don't bark when she's there, so that's, like, weird. And then a snowstorm begins, and they discover that their phone line has been cut, and their car won't start. And voila, they are stuck with Wisekela, in the house. Now we begin to learn, like, everybody's secrets, including Susan, who's pregnant

and was sexually abused by her father, ick. Later, we learned that it's not her father, so we can feel less gross about it. But still, that's bad. The cook, Madam Chanel, and Fannie Ardahn have been having a secret lesbian affair. And Fannie Ardonde has been in the house previous night to ask Marcel for money. The grandmother reveals that she can walk and has been lying. But she's also been lying about money, too.

The maid, Louise, reveals that she's had an affair with Marcel and then also a secret lesbian crush on Catherine Deneuve. And then Catherine Deneuve confesses that she also had an affair with her, like, husband's co-worker or something, and that Marcel isn't the father. yes um and uh she and fanny ardaunt have a secret lesbian makeout and then everybody walks in on it uh somewhere uh someone shoots madame chanelle and uh catherine reveals that she co-conspired with her father to fake his death and then like learn everybody's secrets but then because he's learned all these secrets they all walk in on him killing himself or she walks in one of them happens uh saffin ants on a downer i'm just gonna say say, Chris Fyle gave me some shit last week for my malifluous rendition of Portrait of a Lady on Fire set to song that went 30 seconds over.

Chris just went 48 seconds over and didn't even manage to set it to An Alicia Keys song of any kind. So who's the real villain here is what I'm saying? Fight the real enemy. No, that was great. I didn't do a musical 60-second plot description for a musical. for a musical, yeah. Did you know this was a musical before we started, before we started watching? How fun is it when, like, it kicks in that it's a musical, though?

It's, well, okay, so I didn't know about it before I started watching, and then I started watching it in the description, it said, musical, murder mystery, like, whatever. So, like, that's the point. Each of the eight women gets a song. Have you seen the thing going around this week? We've maybe talked about it in our group chat, the clip of the audience at Mean Girls, the musical, when they start singing. It's like, aw.

Well, maybe they're groaning because those songs are awful. No, Chris, they're not groaning because their songs are awful. Maybe they're groaning because the songs aren't good. The song hasn't begun yet. They don't know if it's good or not. They just know that they did not sign up for a musical because they were lied to you by the marketing campaign. No, no, I was not prepared for this to be a musical. I was also not prepared for this to be a murder mystery.

I kind of had no idea what this movie was. It's a murder mystery. It's a musical. It's a Christmas movie, it's an actress vehicle, it's French, it's gay, secret lesbian, herald their lesbians. Because, like, everyone's kind of a lesbian in this movie. Uh-huh, yes. Except for Isabella Le Per, who's ace. And also, though, I imagine if this movie goes on another 15 minutes that, like, Isabella

would reveal a queer crush on someone. Well, she's not a, she's not a romantic. Right. She's in love with Marcel. Marcel. I'm sorry, that movie has ruined the name Marcel for me. Marcel. Marcel.

Anyway. Okay. Where to begin? I mean, we have to begin with the actresses, obviously. I am less well-versed in French cinema and French actresses. So I did a lot of sort of research. Obviously, I knew that, like, Catherine Deneuve is one of the most famous French actresses of her generation, one of the most sort of lauded and appreciated. I mostly know her from Tony Scott's The Hunger, which I think is a very funny way to mostly know a French actress.

She was nominated for her only Oscar in 1992 for Indochene, which is a movie I still have not seen. we'll get into it the last time that France has won the international future Oscar we're going to do a deep dive on France and the international future Oscar that's a wild stat though that's a wild stat considering how many times 30 years 30 years um what else though she's sort of she's an actress who has worked with the greats right jacquesquesques me in the umbrellas of sherbourg roman polanski in repulsion louis buonuel in belle du jour um She had just recently starred in Lars von Trier's Dancer in the Dark shortly before this movie. I've since seen her in a few things.

She was in the Cori Ada movie that we were talking about last week, the one that played Tiff, whose title, I can never remember. The truth. The truth. What if there was truth? What if there was truth? I didn't love the truth, to be completely honest, but it could be better. It could be better. It's not like a piece of shit, you know what I mean?

It's not what you would hope for with a Juliette Binoche. Right. Catherine de Nove vehicle. Right. I'm trying to think of like what else I've seen her in in the last maybe 10 years. Because she works. Have you seen a Christmas tale? That's the one that, yeah, that's one of the like alternative, but it's not really alternative

Christmas movies that, you know, I see people recommending every year. We're also talking about this a month. out from Christmas, and it's a Christmas movie. I know. That's fine. I feel like I'm going to be bringing Christmas back this episode. I'm already excited for Christmas 2024. There's, um, she kind of, she works a lot, though, is, is the thing. And no, Christmas tale I have not seen.

I should see. She was a voice in Persepolis, which obviously was an animated feature nominee. Um, she's in a movie called The Girl on the Train, but not that. the girl on the train. She's in that Ozone movie Potiche that I did not see, but I remember hearing about, that sort of got a little bit of, like, when I say attention in the States, I mean, like, people who are tuned into foreign language films. But yeah, what is your experience with Catherine Deneuve?

Aside from the ones that you hadn't really mentioned, I mean, I would say the Jacques-Damee films, Umbrells of Sherry. Borg. Have you seen that? I still haven't. That's one of those movies that has been so strongly recommended to me that I'm waiting for like, it's like, it's a Casablanca situation where I'm like, I can't just, I can't just turn it on and watch it. I need to watch it in a theater or like, now that I've got the 4K TV, I want to maybe see if I can get like a good, you know, if there's a really good, uh, blue ray or something like that that I can watch or something that will allow me to experience this movie in a way

that, like, I can be blown away because I, like, I recorded it off of TCM. It's sitting there on my DVR, but I don't want to just, like, watch it off a TCM for the first time. You know what I mean? I mean, also, like, when you were living in New York, there was a decent chance that you could see Umbrellas of Sherborg

in a theater, too. So I visit often enough that it's not out of the question that I could be playing when I go and visit. Like, I did manage to see Thief, Michael Man's Thief, when I was in town last time. So, like, these things, you know, You had to skip out on Yee, though. I'm going to for...

I know. I know. I had to skip out on Yee. I know. But no, I think both of those joctomy movies are a huge access point into this movie, especially, you know, in terms of, like, what... I mean, Umbrell as a Sherborg is sung through, if I remember correctly. And this is not. But the vibe of the musical sequences make complete sense for, like, what this is.

you know, when, you know, there are actual musical sequences in eight women. Yeah. So, yeah, I'll be interested to see what you think of that. She's been in at least one or two, I believe, Agnes Varda movies. Do you have anything to speak to? What is that movie called? The one that De Niro is in. Oh, I don't know.

What is the name of that Varda movie? It's one of the worst. Varda movies. Oh, is that true? Yeah, and I think that's That's, you know, a conventional thought. That's definitely more, I mean, oh, 1001 nights, is that what it is? Yes, not my favorite Varda movie.

Yeah, 101 nights from 1995. I had never heard of that one before. Well. maybe for reason God, this cast, though, my goodness. Marcello Mastriani and Anuk Ami and Faniardin is in that film and Gerard de Pardue and Hannah Shagulia and Stephen Dorf, my God,

like Harrison Ford, Isabella Johnny, Clint Eastwood, my gosh, this cast. Well, Harrison Ford and Anyes were buddies, so. But like, all in one film. Anyway, I've never heard of that movie, but now I have an odd sort of push to see it. She's also in a movie in 1999 that I remember hearing about, but I'd never seen called Pola X, the Leos Karachs film, Pola X. Also super not available in the States, but it had like explicit sex sequences. It was very long.

I think there's multiple versions of that movie. She's in a... has not been super available. Arnaud Despletian movie. How do we pronounce Desplishing? I think it's De Placin, but, you know, his movies don't always come to the States unless they're a Christmas tale. Right.

And they're the movies that always show up at Cannes, and everyone is like, why do they keep giving us a lot to these okay movies? I remember hearing good things about Kings and Queen, though, in 2004. Yes, that's supposed to be very good. Matuel Marique is in that one. She just works with it. all the great, seemingly all the great French filmmakers, and I imagine all the great French filmmakers really want to work with Catherine Deneuve. And so, um, her career has, you know,

two-time Cesar winner for the Last Metro and D'Sheen for the Venice Film Festival. She won Best Actress in 1998 for Place Vendrome. Um, she's just, you know, sort of internationally recognizes one of the greats and also one of the great sort of beauties, the sort of, you know, this generation of great French actresses who are also these great French beauties and feels very much sort of culturally enshrined in that way. Even if you have a passive or less than passive knowledge of French cinema, you probably know who Catherine Deneuve is. Even though Catherine Deneuve has continued to work through current day, she's still very much

seems like a creature of the 60s French cinema, whereas Isabelle Uper seems like a creature of 70s and 80s, sort of like she was, she just came on the, on the scene in the very late 70s, and she seems like the generation next, you know, from that. And this very exciting, thrilling, daring, terrifying, you know what I mean? Like, Beautiful and terrifying in equal measure. Greatest living actress, period. It was so great seeing her be so comedic because genuinely, the first thing, I'm the dumb American who the very first thing had ever seen her in was I Heart Huckabees.

And so it's see, and that's such a funny movie, and she's not, she's very, the humor in her character is how uncommetic she is, right? She's very, like, unfazed by all the, like, farce happening around her. But I think she's wonderful in that movie, but it's so amazing seeing her in the mode she's in eight women, where she is just absolutely, like I said, 1.5x speed. And she's just, just mean, but like just like viciously nasty, but in this really funny way. She's so dramatic. She's all, oh, my gosh, my heart can't take it. All this sort of stuff. She hates everybody. She hates her sister. She hates her nieces. She hates her mother. She hates everyone. And, um, oh my gosh such a fun time such a fun time it's so she's so funny i'm so glad that you like this performance as much as i do because i mean i think she's easy to single out oh she's a big performance yeah the role like this is the type of role that like yeah if this was something that was you know a property that was redone and redone and redone it would actually be fun for us to be

like what american actresses will put in these roles oh god i would need preparation that's too i can't do that off the cuff yeah she would be she would be the role that like constantly is singled out because it's the highs and lows of the character are so there's such a range to it and she you know I think she's done a lot of comedies but I think at least from the ones that I have seen she does a lot of bad comedies or comedies that don't translate how many years before we let Anne Hathaway do this role in the in the like maybe like 15 years and then she's maybe not too many not as many i mean anne hathaway does seem to love doing this kind of nature of performance so maybe yeah but i think she yeah she's just so exquisite she's so funny in this movie and uh i always feel a little silly for to say that for our greatest living actress who is known for serious and severe performances

that maybe one of my top five of her performances is in this movie, this like kind of a movie that people think is like a trifle at least. Okay, I'm going to put you on the spot because I think you can take it. You mentioned top five Isabella Per performances. What are your top five? My top five. Well, like, talk it through because I want to know, like, what is the canon?

What is the Uper canon for you? I mean, I think that the canon for Uper is probably right or very close to right, you know? And, like, she had her Renaissance, which, like, I was one of those people learning of a lot of her movies as well in 2016, because she had this duo of performances in Elle and Things to Come. I'm the psychopath who prefers her things to come performance between the two of them

I think she's incredible in things to come I don't think that's insane at all She saw my ballot for that movie Not Elle Obviously the piano teacher She won her second Can Best Actress Prize For that movie

That movie's a whole can of worms That I could You know Really divulge into but, like, one million percent see the piano teacher. One million percent know what you're getting yourself into when you see the piano teacher listeners,

but just one of the greatest screen performances of all time. And then I would also single out her two Venice wins, both for Story of Women and La Ceremonie, both Claude Chabrole films that, I would say her eight women performance, is maybe the closest to, in her career that I have seen, closest to La Ceremoni in that she's just bringing this whole different energy to both of these movies than the rest of them have.

And obviously, La Ceremony, when you see it, it's incredibly chaotic and, like, the most, like, unhinged Isabelouper performance you've ever scene because usually we think of her as a very controlled, very meticulous performer and La Ceremony, she's like, it's Isabella Lepere as Tasmanian devil. You really don't know what she's going to do next. Um, and story of women is one that really, uh, kind of caught me off guard. I need to rewatch it. It's the one that John Waters always cites of her performances that are like, uh, among the great.

So I would maybe say that's the thing that hasn't quite been canonized for her yet. And if it has, it's because of John Waters. Yeah. That should be. You look at her filmography, and it's one of those, like, every year seemingly, she was in a film that was in competition at Cannes. Like, she was sort of, you know, the mascot for the Cannes Film Festival throughout the, like, 1980s, seemingly.

Well, and she usually shows up, even if she doesn't have a movie there. That's why when she was the jury president, it was seen as a long time coming, but it's because she had to not have a movie that would be playing to be able to do those jury duties. Right. And according to James Gray, he hated her, and she kind of dictated what a lot of the wins would be, to which I say, get over it, James Gray. sure um she's earned she's earned that spot she's earned it but it's it's rare that she doesn't show up to can and then you know it's somewhat rare that she doesn't have a movie playing one of the sidebars right uh i think when she didn't show up for eo and i think partly because they'd wanted to keep her cameo in that surprise yeah a surprise um but yeah i mean she never stops working because Because in addition to doing a ton of movies every year, some of which don't really make it to the States, she also does a lot of theater and, like, around the globe, too.

You know, it's not like she's just doing French theater. She'll do theater in the UK and Australia, off Broadway. A few things about her recent career that I want to bring up. One, did we know that she does the voice of Mrs. Felicity Fox in the French dub of Fantastic Mr. Fox? Yes, and I keep meaning to, like, fire up my criterion and put on the French audio track to see if it's her on there or not. Yeah. Or if I can get my hands on it, because that's all you need to know. You just need to know that she is voicing that role, and you know that it's perfect.

You just know that it's perfect. Um, also, can we talk for five seconds about how great she is in Mrs. Harris goes to Paris? Perfect, perfect. I just, she's so fun and so, like, it's a very stock role, right? She's the mean fashion lady who doesn't appreciate this, you know, a bumpkin from America who's come over. But, like, she plays it to perfection. She's very stressed about keeping the order of things. in a way that is very, very funny.

But I also think there's a turn with that character that is not easy to pull off, and she does very, very subtly. Right. And then finally, she was in this year, another Francois Ozone movie called The Crime Is Mine, that looked to be... A movie that is not very good, but she is... It couldn't have been, because we would have heard about it. When did you see it?

I watched it on a screener at the end of the year. I think it opened Christmas weekend, very limited release. I wouldn't necessarily recommend the movie. She doesn't show up until about an hour in, and she completely turns the movie around without funny she is. Imagine. It's like a murder mystery far? She basically plays a foil to the two leads in this fake

murder confession, and then she's like this high society woman who is very high on her own supply claiming this murder. But she's very funny in that movie. Her hair on the poster looks kind of wild and crazy 80s. Look at her on the poster for this movie and you get the vibe that she's giving. Yeah. I want to see some stills actually. Give me a second. I want to bring some up because yeah, it's like big sort of

like Bernadette Peters style red curls a little bit like when she's wearing a veil um I'm not uninterested in seeing this movie after seeing just the poster of it just jump an hour into the movie when she shows up yeah it's you don't need to follow it you get the broad comedy she's doing yeah uh just from her scenes alone this is the thing about uper is that I think people talk about her in such limited terms, you know, they think that she's very severe and very intense. But her actual filmography, not, you know, and some of it isn't, you know, the most exciting work.

Well, let me, let me figure out how to qualify this. She hasn't always done great movies. Right. You know, the greats are like right there and like the great's like, you know, something like piano teacher, all-time grades. But for someone who works so much, you can't expect them to all be bangers. But she is consistently the best part of those, you know, Mrs. Sure, yes.

Without question. Yeah. I have to pull up because for a while she was my number one performer on Letterbox. and I think Merrill has overtaken her, but because Merrill has been kind of on a break while she's maybe having furious sex with Martin Shore.

Not furious, honey. I just want them to be... I want it to be real. It's not real. It's not real, but I want to believe... I'm going to pull it up and see how many Upera movies I've seen, and if she is my number one performer of all time.

When you get to a certain age... you can be, like, maybe they're just, like, companions to each other now. Like, you know what I mean? And they don't have to be, like, you know, dating or like... Sure. We want Meryl to be happy. We want Meryl to be happy. But also, if it's just going to be a companion, Meryl, get a gay person.

I don't know. Maybe this is what Meryl wants and needs right now. And I'm going to honor that. I just think they're adorable together. I think what an adorable... you know, later in life pairing for the both of them. And he had, like, he's a, he's a widower. His wife had, you know, died not too long ago and whatever. And she's coming off of this, like, very long marriage. And I don't know. I find it. They are my, um, whatever anybody tries

to, like, ship, you know, younger actors together and whatever. And I'm just like, oh, go away. Go away, you loathsome ghouls. And now I'm just like, but I want to imagine the ins and outs of, not that way, the eccentricities of a relationship between Merrill Streep and Martin Short. I would love it. Anyway, you have- At 54 films tied for second place are Julianne Moore in Meryl Streep, and at 60 films, number one with a bullet, Isabelle Uper.

Amazing. You have, if ever, MTV's Fanatic were still a show, I would encourage you to apply so that you could meet Isabella. Imagine Isabella O'Pere reacting to meeting a fan via the vehicle of MTV's fanatic. I think it should be a crime against humanity to make her say the words MTV. I... Kiscusay, Musees? Yeah, yeah.

Oh, okay. No, no, no, no. Before we move on from Upaire, did you watch the Mandarin Oriental commercial that I sent to you, her version of it? No. When did you send it to me? I sent it to you on, like, Thursday or Friday.

No, I missed it. Like, this week. And you dare to claim that I'm gaslighting you that we talked about how to get your hands on this movie. You can't remember something. we talked about on Thursday. Well, wait. Now I'm scrolling back because

I want to make sure that you did, and you're not just pretending that you did. So, okay. CPR dummy of the future can piss blood. I'm scrolling through all the things that Chris sends me. All the deranged things that the internet shows me that I'm like, if I had to see it, someone else has to see it.

Yeah, no. You sent that to me at 1140 a.m. when I was probably tearing my hair out, trying to figure out an article to write. So, okay. I'm just going to watch it right now. You're going to get my real-time reaction to it. All right.

Then I'm going to watch it, too. I'm a fan of Bam. I'm a fan of nature, walking in forests, and reading books. I'm a fan of music and museums. I'm a fan of traveling. I'm a fan of Mandarin Oriental. she says I'm a fan of BAM, as in, like, Brooklyn Academy of Music. Okay, that's kind of what I thought.

That's so... Well, maybe she was auditioning for Abichipong Weirasa Thakle's Memoria. She was like, I know Tilda really wants this, but like, I want this role. I'm a fan of BAM. Memoria jokes. I got them. You got... The way that she absolutely holds a deadpan, and the whole...

Add, the camera is pushing in on her face, so you're like, where is this going? And she, to me, seems so clear that what she is, the spawn con she is doing is so fucking stupid. But she's like, you know what, I could make this funny. I think she is so very, like, clearly playing into a persona of severity. It's the sinister version of we both like soup and. No, the sinister version of this is Rami Mollick's Mandarin Oriental one, because that's the one where he's like, I'm a fan of old movies, I'm a fan of my mom, and like just the most uncomfortable.

Myself personally, I'm a fan of the Mandarin Oriental I'm a fan videos. Sure, that's your version of it, yeah. What are we doing here? Okay, so I imagine Uper is at the top of, of our list in terms of the performances in this movie. So, eight women got the honor of at least a couple of awards this year getting best cast at a, not at like a sag that like generally honors best cast, but like at the Berlin Film Festival, they gave their outstanding artistic achievement award to all eight cast members in eight women. The European Film Award for Best Actress went to the whole cast of eight women. Which is like, okay, that's great and lovely.

But, like, you are at some point. I don't support what Berlin did of giving them, like, their own prize. They give it, you know, quotes, artistic achievement, but they mean best ensemble. Whereas they still gave out a best actress. They gave it to Holly Berry for Monsters Ball because remember the time when it's like late-breaking Oscar movies would also play Berlin? Right, right, right. RIP. But, yeah, I'm not a fan of giving best actress to.

hey, you've got AP... What is this, Billy Elliott? What is this? What are we doing? They're not laying the same role. Cairn's done it before for... Berlin's even done it, because I think Berlin did both best actress and best actor to, like, all of the male actors and all of the female actors in a separation.

I give Cannes a wide berth for this kind of thing. If it's, like... Can did it, I know for Valver. If it's like... But... Yeah. Once I continue... to like, well, we're just going to like, it seems like you're punting.

It seems like you're just like, well, all of them. So Chris File, I'm going to ask you, with the caveat that I'm sure Uper is your number one, rank the other seven actresses in this film. Full ranking. For their performance in this film. Some of it comes down to me, like, what songs do I like the most? Sure, that's fine. Two and three would be Ludovin Sanya and Fermin Rashard, because I feel like their songs are the most effective.

That's absolutely supportable. But it's also like how they play. I mean, Ludovin's song is like the pop girly song of all of these, and it opens the movie. And it makes you really think that like, oh, all of these songs are going to be so fun. This is Papa. Papa, you're out of touch. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I hope you can drop it in here. It's in the trailer that I believe is in the part that I clip, so, yeah. Fabulous, fabulous. What a fun song. And then, like, Uperr gets a downer song that she gets to act the shit out of. Deneuve's song is pretty good. Yeah.

But, like, Emmanuel Bayard's song is pretty short and fine. Fannie Art song reminded me of Zubi Zubi Zoo in Madman a little bit. bit like there was a little bit of that um uh in this but i am also an uncultured slob so uh sure sure okay so then i would say ludovin two fearmein three there's a lot less of her in this movie daniel dario four okay she gets up she stands she can walk it's uh she gets shoved in a wine closet She has the beautiful downer song that ends the movie. Right, yeah. Five, Fanny Ardant, six, Deneuve, seven, Emmanuel Bayar, and then eight, I apologize, sorry, Virginie La Doyenne.

She'd probably be my eight as well. and I would probably put Bayard a little bit lower. No, like, no shade. I don't think anybody in this movie is bad. I put Bayard 7th. How are you going to put her lower if you're not putting her last? What's that? I put her 7th.

How are you going to put her lower if you're not putting her last? No, I'm just saying I probably would have put her around there, around 7. Oh, okay. So we have the same 7 and 8. Yeah, I think so. I probably put Fannie Ardont a little bit higher. I just need to say, speaking as, you know, not a lesbian, so I'm out of turn, perhaps. The soft butch energy happening with both Fannie Ardont and Catherine Deneuve in this movie with is just off of the charts.

I know there's, like, queer energy suffused throughout this movie. Emmanuel L. Bayard's character is also very every sort of every glance she gives is a one like packed with Sapphic intent but like... This is why in the American version she needs to be played by

Catherine Cedar Jones. See? See? Okay. Because we're all, if we're doing an American version we're casting people who can sing. Wait, Catherine Cedda Jones in which role? Nathan Nafani Ardonnell. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. No, that makes sense. That makes total sense.

I thought you were going to say as Louise the Chambermaid. That doesn't make as much sense. No, no, I think Catherine Zeta Jones, as the sister, is perfect. She's so, like, she just sort of swans in there and is just like, well, I'm going to fuck up everything that's happening in this room right now. Ding-dong, does someone call for a lesbian? Uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh. And it's like, it's one of those things where it's just like her presence, you know, sort of like throws everybody's metrics off of...

100%. The scene with her and of leading up to them making out on the floor is so incredibly, like the melodrama is off the charts. Like I want to be in the room when John Waters watches that scene because like that seems like I want to watch this movie with John Waters just in general. I feel like that's on a, like, a make-a-wish list for me. But, um, it's incredible. It's really incredible. They really know how to. This movie jumps from tone to tone. Right. Well, because it's referencing so many different things. It's referencing Cirque. It's referencing Umbrellas of Sherbourg. It's, you know, it's referencing Hitchcock. It's all of those things. It's also referencing the actors themselves.

Yeah. You know, like, they're all cast very intentionally for what their screen personas were at the time. Hubert, keep in mind, this is, I think, the first big movie after Piano Teacher. Well, and in the States, they both come out in the same year. Yeah. Yeah. But, yeah, she had just won the Cannes Best Actress Prize for Piano Teacher in 2001. So conceivably, she'd already shot this movie, but...

Conceivably, yeah. She'd already had that. Well, especially because I... would love to know what the shooting process was for this, because it is, you know, just the one location, and they're all in the same room, essentially. So is it just, like, I, who knows nothing about the actual, like, you know, art of filmmaking. But I imagine that it's just, like, coverage upon coverage upon coverage. Like, I don't know. Like, it's, it's, um, the compactness of this movie is incredibly intoxicating, I think.

I love, I know some people. In a fun way, too, like. I just have accepted about myself that, like, stagey is not a problem for me. And stagey in some ways is like, I, I, that's a, that's a benefit for me. Like, I love the energy of it. Especially for something like this where it's so intentionally.

I love the energy of it. I love the, the, you know, they're not even in rooms. they're in the fucking foyer, you know what I mean? It's just like they are, they haven't even managed to- A giant mansion foyer at Christmas. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

No, it's like, it's, all right, this is a bad comparison, but I'm just going to say it. It's very Daytona wind-coated in that way, where it's just sort of. No, it is, it's a detona wind. Without the farts, it's Daytona wind without the farts. but it's very much just like they're just doors on either side and like somebody's always coming in the scene where

Madame Chanel the cook is like I know exactly what's happening hold on a second I'm going to go outside and then I'm going to come back in and everybody's like we think she's the killer

let's go hide and they're inside like the China closet that is like flush with the wall so like you can't really see and it's just like what is going on here that like you're all playing hide and seek and then one of them shoots her

and oh my god it's um whatever queen is playing augustine is absolutely winning this week's challenge the queen who pouts about having to play louise and has the least line this would actually be a perfect drag race challenge just like as is

the script as is and just like and pick the role It would be, it's a perfect drag race challenge. It really is. Maybe we should cast drag race queens instead of American actresses. Oh, girl. Like, Jinks Monsoon as Augustine is my number one pick. I don't know if I would say Jinks Monsoon for that role.

Okay. I feel like you need almost more someone who's meaner, not to like just say that everybody thinks Isabella Bupera's mean. I could see Jinks being mean. Quite lovely. Okay. Well, we'll think on it. We'll think of it.

I would see Jinks more as Gabby in the Catherine Deneuve role because, like, that Catherine Deneuve's song for Jinks Monsoon would be fabulous. Okay. Who is Fannie Ardott's character? Who's the most... Who's a real, like, S-sler? Who's the hussy? Who's the biggest hussy? Um...

Worth... Ooh, actually, like, not a hussy, but maybe Sheikoulet. Oh, maybe. I could see that. I could see that. Just, like, fabulous, statue-esque, taller than everyone else. I was going to say Brooklyn Heights for similar reasons. Mm. Mm. Mm.

Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. I also say Simone as Ludovine Sanier's role. Love that. Right that. that. Virginie LaDoyenne is whoever wears a ponytail the most. Honestly, that one

clip of Bob and Peppermint where Peppermint can't say it's fashion, Bob has a ponytail in that, and now I'm thinking of Bob. Bob in that role. Yeah, yeah. All right. Fascinating mental routhole. Listeners get at us with who you think who should play what role. Let's talk about

Frasso Azone for a second, because I feel like this is another area where you can probably school me a little bit. We'll talk about French submissions for Oscars, too, but like... Yeah. France doesn't always submit people multiple times, and this is the only time that... This is the movie of his that was submitted, even though I think, at least for American audiences, he is a, like, one of the more well-known... Yeah. ...French directors, because his stuff gets distributed. year off. During this run, especially, because I remember

under the sand got some sort of distribution, eight women, and then swimming pool was probably his most, yeah, the one that came after eight women was probably his most widely distributed in America, I would say. Also focus features. Also focus features.

A real 180 for Ludovin, though. One year back to back. Yeah. Yes. Yeah, for real. Yeah, it's amazing that they come one year apart from other because swimming pool she is very much like sexualized and um yes swimming pool is another movie i saw it so long ago that i'm like i barely i don't remember a thing about it really beyond the two lead performances what is ozone's sort of reputation among french filmmakers i believe incredibly hit and miss uh sometimes things get really bad reviews not really really really

Sometimes it's like, no, this is a good one. Right. He's not really revered. I'm trying to think of, I remember there being a lot of chatter about in the house, which was his. I need to catch up to that. I haven't seen that. That's supposed to be one of the good ones. Kristen Scott Thomas isn't that one.

Yes, but that is supposed to be one of the good ones. Summer of 85 was supposed to be one of the good ones, but I feel like that's just a pandemic year. thing of people, you know, overly optimistic about everything. I didn't love that movie as much as other people seem to... Well, plus the poster of that movie, all I remember that movie is the poster, which is just very, like... Twinks on a motorcycle. Twinks on a motorcycle.

But, like, in a very, just like, everybody, like, their hair is, you know, blowing in the breeze, and it's very much just like, what if you were handsome when you were a teenager in France? It's just like, oh, right. By the grace of course. is one that I should catch up to because a lot of people really thought that that one was great. I think that was a Berlin winner.

Maybe it was a Venice winner. Yeah. And then double lover, which is, I think, one of the ones that Jessica Chastain was talking shit about. We're going to be speculating about that quote till the day we die. What movies are?

Talk about wanting to watch a movie with John. Waters. I want to watch this movie with John Waters. There is a shot that dissolves from, I believe, a human eye into a close-up shot of Labia. That, like, you can see why people hated that movie. Yeah, yeah. But I thought it was kind of fun. I'm also... Trash, but fun. I'm also curious to check out Peter von Kant, the adaptation of Reinder Werner Fasbender's Bitter's Tears of Petrovancant to see what sort of this gender-flipped version of it would be. Also, Ozone's sort of breakthrough movie was water drops on burning rocks, which was another adaptation of, I believe, a Fasbinder play.

That also, that movie starred, Ludovine Senia was in that one. one as well she must have been very uh well no it was only two thousand so it must be buds before yeah yes um all right anyway so let's talk about french cinema submissions for the foreign language oscar throughout the years i feel like you are coming at this with some scholar energy i believe they are the second most awarded in academy history uh given that this prize is technically awarded to the country, not to the filmmaker, even though the filmmaker accepts it, whatever.

Italy is number one. France has a long history of winning this category, but a recent, you know, struggle to, not necessarily to get nominated, especially this period, the ought. It gets nominated. Women is the outlier in that it doesn't get nominated. It's one of the few in that decade that did not get nominated. You can maybe see why, because, of course, gay men would love this movie, but the broader academy, it's probably easy to reduce this movie to a trifle rather than, you know, a technical achievement of tone, et cetera. it's also

Focus is releasing two surcomages in a single year this and far from heaven and neither of them were fully to the Academy taste I wonder why but certainly far from heaven much more

yes for reasons that that are pretty obvious it's wild to me I'm looking at this and I'm like oh yeah but at least France has been nominated a bunch they've only been nominated twice since 2010 exactly that's so shot because they always seem like

they're in the mix for something, you know what I mean? And then... Whatever they submit has eyes on it purely because it's coming from France. Right, right. Even big movies like The Intouchables don't end up getting nominated, even though that's a movie that made money in the United States relative to other, you know, non-American films. And yet, sometimes they don't submit a movie that does well anyway, you know what I mean? Anatomy of a Fall We should say there are two nominees in the past decade

Le Miserables, Rob, which we would have talked about last week because it was the submission over Portrait of a Lady on Fire and then in 2015, Mustang, which I loved. Mustang's the one about the five girls? Yes. Yeah, yeah. That's a good movie. Yeah, great movie.

That filmmaker has gone on to do some other stuff, right? Did you see, what was it called with Daniel Craig and Hollyberry that bombed at that tip? Oh, Kings. No, I didn't. Kings. Not a good movie, Kings. No, I didn't. So maybe that's what I'm thinking of. But among those submissions, there's kind of high-profile movies that don't even get shortlisted, like L and BPM in the past decade. Titan, obviously, Titan being a huge talking point. Uh, Teton being the submission, presumed pushed through by Tiri Fremo, the, uh, head of

Cannes. That movie obviously won. I respect the swing, honestly. Like, I know that like Teton was not for everybody's taste. And we all sort of assumed that Tartan was going to be. It was looked ask at that movie when it was the submission because they were like, Well, the Academy is not going to go for that. Right. But it was also, Neon had that movie.

Neon was, you know, going to try it with that. that movie, even though, like, you still weren't back in theaters, and that's why I think that movie didn't do as well in the States as it could have, because it's just like nobody was going to the movies. Plus, I also think by winning can, it put a target on itself that I think there was a lot more backlash against that movie. People were very show me about that movie. That is a huge outlier as a Palm winner.

But the skepticism around Titan's submission was also... France was faced with submitting the Palm winner or the Golden Lion winner with Happening. Happening won the Golden Lion, or did it win the Grand Prix? I don't remember. Happening won the Golden Lion. Happening was also, IFC had that movie. I didn't love it as much as everyone else did. I appreciate it on a filmmaking level.

I don't feel like we ever know that character in a way that I felt was very limiting for that movie. My thing with happening is that it's a really good idea, but Amnight Shyamalan doesn't really know how to turn it into an elegant horror movie. You fucker. You fucker. No, I did not see happening, the one that you are talking about. What is it about if our listeners are not familiar? I believe it's said in the mid-century or late mid-century,

like in the 60s in France, a college-age young woman tries to get an abortion. And it's very, you know, the camera follows her literally closely. It's very that, it's very that of, like, putting you in the experience of this woman. And I think it's well made, but I think on a screenplay level,

I don't ever know this character on a character level. So it's the type of thing that's very easy to project onto this character. This is a very open-ended question. So I genuinely am just sort of throwing it out there. Do you think that France's struggles to make it onto the foreign language film slash international film nomination list as of late have impacted those filmmakers, abilities to cross over into the United States because you look at some of those filmmakers who have been nominated over the years

and going back only as far as even 2010. Inari 2, Lanthamos, Villeneuve, Pablo Lorraine, Paolo Sorrentino, Thomas Winterberg, Lashlo Nemish, Maran Ad, Sebastian Lelio, uh, Bong Joon, who was a deal before of Parasite, but, you know, obviously has had his, uh,

profile, uh, raised. And I, uh, uh, Joachin Treer. And I'm curious to like what, what you make of that and whether, like, I think we are doing a good job of recognizing foreign directing talent in our own culture in a way that maybe we haven't done as well since the 70s. And I like that. And I wonder if like, is France a little bit like on the outside looking in

because of the ability to raise a profile that an Oscar nomination can do? I think definitely to some degree. I mean, Verhoven being the outlier because L was their submission and didn't even make the short list and Verhoven was already established

in the American. Right. system. Right. But, like, you think of someone like a Bertrand Bonello or Robin Campillo as director. I was thinking about Robin Campello specifically. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Robin Campillo has a whole follow-up to BPM that, like, didn't go to, Cannes select it. And then that kind of ended up being the end of the road for that movie in terms of an American audience. I'm kind of desperate to see it. Yeah. It really got, it apparently got great reviews. Yeah. Did well in France. But, like, it didn't even play Toronto, whereas what would have maybe happened to his follow-up to BPM if BPM had gotten nominated like it deserved, you know?

Yeah. And Bertrand Binello is kind of, uh, I haven't seen St. Laurent, but it's apparently way weirder than you think it would be for a biopic. Yeah, it is. Benelho's films, like, uh, are all very love or hate. Sure. Um, but like, I am turning out to be very pro, but. Donello of late. But, like, those are good filmmakers to have, too.

You know what I mean? Like, that's, I, I think, you know, I love that. And, you know, among the most recent of the French directors that have been submitted, I don't, I mean, I think a lot of eyes will be on Julia DeKernos follow up to Tatan. I think the same will be true with however Alis Diop moves forward, Saint-Omer being an outright masterpiece that should have been nominated. Yeah. IMO. But again, like, I wonder if those, you know, filmmakers, I don't wonder, because I, you know, that, like, that's a, that's a big boost that they could have gotten in terms of visibility and in terms of financing and audience, you know, reach and what kind of and whatnot. So, yeah.

What do you think's going to happen with the taste of things? Because this feels like a very accessible movie for America. audiences to the point where it's like the eyes could be on Toronto and Hung for, you know, making a movie in the English language. Sure. Well, our, you know, friend and former guest, Kyle Buchanan had tweeted a while ago about how the taste of things could be, could have been a, you know, could be a contender for Best Picture and could really like come on strong. And I really, I put a lot of credence into that. And obviously, like, these things sort of, you know, wax and Wayne and whatnot. And having now seen the movie, I could absolutely see how that's the case. And it's kind of a bummer. It's not quite an Iron Claw situation where it just, like, it waited too long and now it's completely out of the conversation.

But, like, it's not so far from it. It just people didn't see it. Like, I know that, like, it played Cannan and it played New York Films. It should have played Toronto. They should have taken that movie to Toronto. I think I agree with that. I think it should have played, I think that's a movie that like play it everywhere. What are you, what are you, you know, holding on to it for? The problem is that it's IFC that has it. I have money. And they've apparently done like FYC events for the movie where they have these incredible menus and such. But that sounds like it was early on in the season. Yeah. I think, yeah, when you watch the movie, it's like this could. have been a contender in a lot of categories, and I think IFC only has the infrastructure to really go for international feature, and I think ultimately... This is a conversation, a side conversation I've wanted to sort of have for a while, and we don't really have the time to really get into it.

Maybe we'll do it as a Patreon bonus at some point. But we talk a lot about, oh, well, this movie could be a thing, except it's at I. or it's at Sony Pictures Classics or, I mean, Sony Pictures Classics actually does better. Didn't used to be that way for Sony Classics, but it is now. And so really the only sort of, we don't want anything to go to Netflix because it will get swallowed. The only real possibilities are A24 in Neon. And as we've seen this year, those lineups get real crowded real fast. And we can't just sort of like hope everything goes to Neon or A24, but like what else is there?

Taste of Things is more at home with, like, focus than it is. Well, and even focus, though, focus this year, if Taste of Things goes to focus, I know that, like, they have probably more resources, but, like, they've got the holdovers. You know what I mean? They've got their, their horse in this race. But they've only got the holdovers, like... That's fair. Especially because, like, nothing's happening with Asteroid City.

Yeah. Taste of Things is the type of movie that, like, if Searchlight had that movie, it would be a best picture nominee. Like... But then... But my thing is, what is searchlight? Now, I guess my more, like, big picture question is, like, are we just sort of running out of places that can take care of a smaller movie and do a good Oscar campaign for it? Because they're just, like, where these outlets are drying up. Like, at this point, Searchlight is hanging on.

Like, God bless those people who are working there. That place is hanging on. The thing about Searchlight is, yes, it's under the Disney umbrella. but I think, unless this has changed and I didn't notice it, I'm pretty sure they have a lot of the same people there prior to the, you know, buying. Yeah. Right. That's what I mean. It's sort of just like the people who are working there are doing good work.

But it's just sort of like the question mark sort of hang over that one. And I'm just not to be the like, as I am about so many things these days, but just like, oh, remember how it used to be. Like, remember how it used to be. Remember how... The collapsing of Sony Pictures Classics is real depressing. Yeah. Real depressing. Yeah.

Anyway, bring back boutique indie labels and distribution and make it 1999 again. I don't know. Well, no, but like we could also get a movie that could be an awards place. are like eight women. That's also very fun and like has an appeal and like audiences can enjoy this movie. Right. You know. Yeah. And like the same is true of the taste of things. Like yeah. Hopefully people, if nothing, if it doesn't do well with the Oscars, hopefully American audiences when it opens apparently wide, I don't know what wide is going to mean for that movie, but on Valentine's Day. Which is like not a bad strategy. It's just people should have already been able to see this movie by now. think with the Oscar calendar, it's very hard these days to both get something in front of enough eyeballs that it becomes a presence throughout precursor season and also open it on Valentine's Day. It's just too wide of a terrain in between, you know what I mean? Yeah. And so you have to make your decision to go one or the other. And I guess the decision

was made to just be like, well, we can, you know, maybe people will see it on Valentine's Day. And I think because of that, it just was not a thing in November and December when it needed to be. And it misses things like the golden globes that should be the easiest layup for that movie to land. Yeah. And I think it's like, no, it is nominated at Critics' Choice, I think. I'm surprised I haven't seen more people because of the Benosh connection talk about it in the lens of Chocolat, which was a movie that was able to. And I know that, like, the Miramax of it all is a huge difference. And, like, and again, it's wrong to be nostalgic for Miramax.

And I'm not nostalgic for Harvey Weinstein, but I am nostalgic for an indie label having the kind of muscle that Miramax had. That can make as much money as Chocolat made. Right. And, like, and there was a lot more... The thing about taste of things in relation to Chocolat, though, is the Chocolat haters will absolutely enjoy this movie. right but it's just interesting that like how many years later that like the taste of things which has I think there's maybe more of a an aggressively cute appeal to Chocolat you know what I mean that like there's more of a they push the story a little bit more in Chocolat where the

taste of things is more bittersweet vibes oh but such good bittersweet vibes I can't wait watch it again um i'm glad you liked it because i was like joe's gonna like this movie yeah oh yeah yeah absolutely the whole first like hour of that movie is oh my god like exquisite but stressful because the way that it's shot and assembled is is so good so good it's also a very classic like one cough and you're done for movie where it's just sort of like oh no not a cough and then it's just like, oh, this is over. It's over. Oh, God, it's so sad. The, you know, when we talk about

movies in this category, though, we should talk a little bit about the process of it, you know? Yeah. France has had tumult in recent years because they felt like Can and Tiri Fremot, especially the influence has resulted in things not. It does feel like the French cinema is very bothered that it's been 30 years since they've won this category, given the reputation of France among the global cinema community.

I don't, but, you know, so there's been some turnover in who is selecting the movies that are moving forward. And it's interesting that, you know, a lot of it has been placed on Cannes, and, you know, they still push forward. a can movie, even if they didn't push forward the palm winner. I think it was very strategic for Anatomy of a Fall to not be the selection given how much English is in that movie, but also at the end of the day, I think the way this race has shooken out, they would have had a winner in Anatomy of a Fall. Yes. Like, part of me is just like, what's your fucking problem, guys?

Like, do you hate success? Do you hate, like, winning? What's, what's... But I think that there was read, I think the reason it wasn't pushed forward was the amount of English that isn't. Well, and like then, yes. So, again, we then. And they could have shaken out that people would have been like, well, no. But you can have your flowers or you can have your standards. And sometimes we cannot have both.

And you make your decision and you got to be good with it then. And it's, what do we think is ultimately winning this year? Foreign language film? Yeah. I mean, we only have the shortlist, so we, you know, anything can happen. Hold on, I'm bringing up the shortlist. But it doesn't feel like it's entirely locked down. Well.

It does really feel like teachers lounge, everything I've said about. I'm crossing my fingers until it happens. I'm so hopeful that it does. I mean, I think it's going to be very hard for the zone of interest to not win, I think. True. It just doesn't feel like... Zone of Interest showing up on the PGA list feels like the final thing of, okay, it can happen. But there's just so much hesitancy around that movie of how well it's going to do. But maybe... I think it's just... I think it's very well respected. Um, and good for Jonathan Glazer, honestly. And people forget that like, Ben Kingsley did get that nomination for sexy beasts back in the day. So it's like, just because Glazer has made, you know, know. Under the skin and birth. Right. Under the skin, especially. I think once under the skin happened, a lot of people

are like, oh, Glazer has no interest in being an Oscar-nominated Phil Baker, and that's fine. But I think if you look at this, if I were to make a prediction for five right now, I think I would go, zone of interest. And part of it is I just saw four daughters recently and really like it. But I think it is going to be zone of interest, four daughters, fall in Lee. perfect days is coming on strong right now which was very smart of them to do and society of the snow although that seems very western that seems like a very western lineup and that has not been the tendency in recent years which is why i i'm sort of like i'm not ruling out boutan and i'm not

ruling out the mother of all eyes could absolutely uh be nominated mother of all eyes is so good Totem needs to be nominated. Totem is the best. I know you love Totem, but do you think... I don't know how realistic. Okay. No. I just haven't heard...

If not for you, being in my life, I don't think I'd ever heard... I would have ever heard of Totem, so... It's easily the best of them. So what is my five? What did I say? Zone of Interest, Four Daughter, Society of the Snow, Perfect Days, Fallen Leaves. What is your five? Okay.

Um... I've also said for a while, I was like, if they watch Godland, Godland is getting nominated, just because of the look and feel of that movie. At this point, I don't think that they watched it. I think it'll be zone of interest, perfect days, teachers lounge, fallen leaves, even though Cowersmocky has been submitted a few times and not been nominated. But the momentum for that one has really been. going. Yeah, and that's a movie that a lot of people are talking about. You're smart to point out Bhutan because that it feels like a very

Western movie, even though the one white guy in that movie gives maybe the worst performance I saw in a movie all year to the point that it's like it actively makes the movie bad. All respect to that actor. Okay, so I said, don't have interest, perfect days, teachers' lounge, Fallen Leaves That's four movies I'm just gonna

I'm just gonna still call it for the taste of things Though I think Society of Snow Will be nominated elsewhere And if Taste of Things shows up I think that there is potential Up into the last minute That that movie could be a spoiler

Just because it so appeals to the Academy Taste We'll be exciting We'll be exciting to see how it shakes out So, back to eight women. What if they were eight women? Twelve Cesar nominations, zero wins. It was very much the color purple of the Cesar's. It was the biggest ofer for...

Spielberg, Color Purple. Oh, yeah, sorry, now I have to make that distinction, yes. It would be very interesting. I don't think it's going to happen. It would be very interesting if the color purple got only a couple nominations but won one of them, and then it would be the most successful color purple in terms of Oscars. Like, I feel like that would be kind of amazing. I think at this point there is zero chance of any wins for that.

I'm trying to find an arena for that to happen, and I don't think. I think you're right. I agree with you. I'm looking up the films that received 10 or more Cesar nominations. So at 12, it does not hold the record for nominations. That is actually last year's Lost Illusions got 15 nominations, beating the record set by five, one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight movies tied with 13 nominations throughout the years, including Amelie.

Any listeners might be familiar with? Okay, Amelie and. Cerno de Bergerac, a prophet, BPM, all got 13 nominations, and all won anywhere from 2 to 10. Cerno de Bergerac in 1990, won 10 Cizars. Okay, Queen, go off. But eight women was nominated for... How many did BPM win?

BPM won six. Yeah, that's actually, that's great. That's great. Way more than I would have thought that gay people would be received. So what did I say? Only then to be bested in 2013 by a film called Camille Rewines that is about a quirky clockmaker who goes to have her watch fixed. And when she gets her watch fixed, it becomes 13. going on 30, where she gets transported back to her, to when she was 16, and it's

1985. And I've not seen this movie, but now I kind of want to, because I kind of want to see. I was out on this until you said 13 going on 30. It essentially becomes the plot of 13 going on 30. And it got 13, 13 nominations from the Cesar's and won absolutely none of them. So Matthew Amalricke is in it as, uh, a supporting character, which is pretty far down the list, but still, that's the only name of an actor who I recognize in this cast.

The poster is this girl riding on a bicycle wearing headphones and pink colored tights, so you know that it's the 80s, and I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, listen, Gary's who have seen Camille Rewinds. please get back to us and let us know, because I know some of you Fsler's out there have seen it. And so, I want to know. And by Fessler, he means French people. French people. All right.

What else do we want to talk about, about eight women? I'm, I mean, like, not to be basic. Like, I'm interested in hearing you talk a little bit more about the movie because I was just excited for you to watch. It's just a ton of fun. Like I say, like it's, I am not as academically versed in any of the kind of stuff that this movie is as you are. So, like, I don't feel like I am equipped to talk about the Cirque stuff or the, even the Hitchcock references or whatever. It's just like, I'm getting vibes. I'm that, like, dummy who's just like, oh, yeah, yeah, yes, yes, yes.

of getting vibes for, you know, for other stuff, but just like, I think the colors in this movie are incredibly vibrant and beautiful. I love that it takes place in a foyer. I love that, you know, Isabel O'Pair is on 20. You know what I mean? She's just, it's, I, I thought that she was at one and a half speed. I'm going to have to make room for her in my 2002 ballot. And I don't know. Like, I don't, I, I, I, I, I, And again, like the recency bias of having just seen it, sometimes they sort of need to sit with something. But I do want to bring... Also, as I pointed out, our 300 episode is right before we go to Toronto this year. So we are going to be extra despondent and exhausted. We are. We'll make it happen. Should we do 300 for a 300?

No, no. Ew. No. Slap you right now. I also think it's so funny that this movie originated with Ozone wanting to remake the women, not being able to get the rights, and then finding French source material that it's like, oh, this is kind of like that. Let's just adapt this. Yep, yep. I would also love to see Uper in a version of the women, obviously.

I mean, yes. That's the other one where it's so funny that we got an American remake of an American remake. I know the women was American to begin with. A modern remake of the women, which we also should do on this podcast. Absolutely. But it just sort of came and went so quickly and without, like, it got a little bit of a fanfare, but like really not very much. And it's just like, oh, well, then we can't, I guess we could try it again. but just like, we tried it, and it didn't work.

And even with Annette Benning and Meg Ryan, it didn't work. And that's too bad. Too bad, I say. All right, 2000. Eight women should have been a contender for other nominations, such as costumes, set design, song, motherfuckers. Which is the song? Is you going to put the Papa, you're old-fashioned or you're out of touch?

Yeah, it's so fun. It is very fun. What a Bob? I mean, anything where you have, like, backup singers, you know what you mean? Like, we're my backup singers. All right. Supporting Actions 2002, my ballot is

well, I already don't think this is right because, okay, I had Catherine Zeta Jones in supporting, but I do think Catherine Zeta Jones is a co-lead, so bumping her up. Marilyn Adaptation, Michelle Pfeiffer and White O'Leander,

Samantha Morton and Minority Report, Viola Davis and Solaris and Tony Colette for the hours, but also about a boy, because I'm being that annoying about it. I think I put Isabelle above Tony Collette, much as I love her. I think I slot Isabelle in right at there. So it's Huper joining Viola, Samantha Morton, Michelle Pfeiffer, Meryl Streep. I think that's my lineup. Other contenders.

Patricia Clarkson for far from heaven Susan Sarandon for Moonlight Mile Kathy Bates for About Schmidt I would also say Queen Latifah for the piano teacher Oh I gotta see the piano Queen Latifah for Chicago Or I'll steal yourself

Yeah 2002 is such a great year We should find a way to do like a 2002 spectacular For the Patreon something We do love 2002 It's a huge year for me It's a huge year for me It really is

An excursion just on the year 2002 Why not? Maybe we should start doing excursions That are like our ballot For that year Maybe we should Chris

Did I just give us an idea? I think we did Well we know what we're doing You just caught a brainstorming session Live on Mike But we know what we're doing For our February excursion

And I cannot wait for you guys to hear our plans for February excursions. We can just say. We can say. Oh, yeah, it's true, because we want to advertise, we want to sign up. We want you to be enticed to sign up to the Patreon. We're going to be doing this had Oscar Buzz superlatives as our excursion. We are doing our nominees in the awards categories that aren't at the Oscars, but are at other award shows.

So we're talking about Best Ensemble via the Sags. We're talking about Best Grown Up Love Story via AARP. We're talking about Best Kiss via MTV Movie Awards. We're talking about what is the NBR? Special Achievement in Filmmaking. There we go. Special Achievement in Filmmaking from the National Board of Review. We are scouring the precursors for all of the hyper-specific, very particular,

best first film from the Independent Spirit Awards, all of that stuff that you only get at these certain precursors. we are paying tribute to those precursors for being their own little unique creations, and also finding a way to do our best of list in a little bit different way than... Maybe we will... Obviously, you have to time it for the blankies, but maybe we'll also put our ballot out there on the Patreon. We'll figure it out. On Oscar Knight or something. Yes.

Yes, definitely. I still... I was going to... You published your top 10 list on the Patreon. So... It's such a good list. Top 25, right? You'll be so unshooked by my number one. Were you 25 or were you 20?

I did 20. I usually like to do like a top 10 and then Heroes 10 more because especially, I felt like especially this year, 9 and 10 were very difficult to pick from movies that I thought were on putting mine up on New Year's Eve. And then I was like, nobody need to see this one more thing. And then I was like, nobody need to see this one more thing. And then before I knew it, New Year's Eve was over. And I was like, well, then I'll just wait until I see 10 more things.

You know what I mean? So I catch up to the year later because I have to catch up to the year for the vulture list that I do and for the blankies. And those don't happen until later. So I give myself a little bit more time. Right, right, right, right. But anyway, Chris, final thoughts on eight women before we move into the IMDB game. Make it available to people. Yes.

Listeners, if you need to blind buy a DVD, which you still can. Yes. I would not dissuade you from doing that. Yay, physical media, but also this movie is so much fun. Yes. And it's one of my favorite Upaire performances. Here, here. So there.

I'm glad I finally saw it. Chris, your mission, at least in this regard, has been accomplished. So, well done. I'm glad that, thank you, Dana, if no other reason than giving me the space to go off about Upaire. Yes, thank you, Dana. We really appreciate it. All right, Chris. what is the IMDB game and why are we playing it?

Listen, listeners, every episode we end with the IMDB game where we challenge each other with an actor or actress to try to guess the top four titles that IMDB says they are most known for. Any of those titles are television, voice-only performances, or non-acting credits will mention that up front. After two wrong guesses, we get the remaining titles release years as a clue. That's not enough. It just becomes a free-for-all of hints. Heck yeah. All right, Chris, would you like to...

Give me the name of an actor or actress first, or should I give mine to you? For the sake of having just pulled up the tab for it, I'm going to give first. So I dug into the large cast of the women remake, much malign remake that we very much would like to talk about at some point. Yes. And for you, I chose Miss Eva Mendez. Hey, okay, Eva Mendez. I've gone easy on you lately, so I went with one that I thought might be a little more difficult. Okay, I'm going to say hitch.

Hitch, correct. I'm going to say too fast, too furious. Incorrect. Place beyond the... The Pines? Correct. Place Beyond the Pines. Okay.

That's two. The women? The women is incorrect, so you're getting your years. Okay. 2003 and 2010. 2003 is sort of heyday of Eva Mendez. I feel like there's a very popular movie that she did that I'm not remembering or not remembering that she's in it. Is that sort of the road I should be going on for 2003?

One of these, I'm looking up how much it made, but it definitely, I'm pretty sure this was like a $100 million grossing. Is she in John Q? She might be in John Q, but that is incorrect. Yes, this movie made almost $120 million in America. The other one definitely did not, but did well, did well. The O3 made almost $120 million in America. No, the 2010 made $120 million. Summer Comedy.

Oh, is she in couples retreat? No. Or what's the Adam Sandler one, grown-ups? That is incorrect. You are... You're on the right path in terms of stars. There are two men above the title on this poster. This is probably one you've forgotten about,

but I think you can get there if you can get there to the stars. The 2003 movie did 56 million in the States, twice its budget. 56 million for this movie is absolutely a massive success. Is the 2010 like a Paul Rudd? No. Is it a Kevin James? No. Is it a Sandler?

Bigger star. Sandler? No, but on that tier. Um, Bateman. No. 2010 probably the biggest name in comedy 2010 Comedy movies

Hangover Is she in a hangover? No This is someone who we don't see in movies a lot Because they're producing a lot now And things you wouldn't expect Their name would be attached to as a producer Yeah

okay but like primarily known for comedy yes Chris Rock no had a lot of very successful movies purely because

he was in them like a lot and a lot of them have been kind of forgotten I would say this is a movie that's pretty forgotten but not Sandler but on the same wavelength as Sandler definitely had, I mean, how about this, came from the same, got famous in the same place as SNL, SNL, guy. Mike Myers. No, bigger.

2010, Mike Myers is doing. Yeah, yeah, you're right, you're right, you're right, you're right. Bigger, Will Ferrell. Will Ferrell, correct. Will Ferrell opposite a one-time Oscar nominee who we don't like, have defended their performances. Some of their performances, I should say. Um, okay, a one-time Oscar nominee. Oh, wait, so what's Will Ferrell doing in 2010? Is it, like, semi-pro? Is it, um, um, um,

opposite a one-time Oscar nominee who we don't like? We like a performance in a movie that you mentioned almost at the top of this episode. Oh. Probably we would both say it's our favorite performance of his. Top of this episode was so long ago. Okay. Will Farrell, one-time Oscar nominee,

one-time Oscar nominee, and lead or supporting actor? Supporting actor. Supporting actor. We don't like this person, but this person is. Eight Women is not the first Isabella Pair movie we've done. Oh, Huckabees. Who do we think is great in Huckabees? That we don't.

Mark Wahlberg. Mark Wahlberg. Yes. Mark Wahlberg, Will Ferrell, together at last. This is a title that is not friendly to not only our memories, but to search engine optimization. Is it the one where they're both dads? They are possibly dads, but this movie. knows them more so for their profession.

Oh. But not Blades of Glory. What type of profession would you probably see? Oh, it's the other guys. The other guys. Which I've heard is a good movie, and I've never seen it. Sorry, that took me way

longer than I should have to both guess Will Ferrell and also to guess the other guys. The O3 movie is an extenuation of, I mean, you could call it a sequel. It's more, I would say it's probably like an expanded universe movie, though, yeah, sure, it's a sequel. There's three people on the poster. Is it like an action thing?

Yes. Okay. The first two build names are people who are from this cinematic universe. The third build name, also someone on the poster, not, but someone who was having a moment and probably why this movie was such a financial success. In 03. Yes. Johnny Depp.

Yes. Oh, okay. You're going to get it. You're going to get it. Cinematic Universe. Oh, once upon a time in Mexico. Correct. Not a bad movie.

I actually really enjoyed that movie. I forgot that she's in that, but yes. Justice for Eva Mendez is known for, though, because two of those movies are not movies you would talk about when talking about Eva Mendez. The shot on the poster. of Johnny Depp wielding the gun with the black blood sort of coming down from his eyes in a way that looks like a Lone Ranger mask, as a good shot.

That was very much capitalizing on the Johnny Depp moment in pop culture. Eva Mendez, who has semi-retired for one acting credit in the past decade, aside from Gosling's Lost River, is an episode of Bluey, where she voices yoga instructor. Honestly, I think the most enviable credit. I mean, like, if you're going to go on Bluey, I'm in yoga. I'm impatient for my nephew to get into Bluey because I want to be, like, cool, like all the adults who watch Bluey that I know in pop culture.

There's a lot of them. And they say they like, they like it for their kids, but, like, I also think they just, like, want to be cool. They like, they like the Bluey of it all. No, my nephew likes all the, like, very uncool. of kids' TV shows among our cadre, right? So he likes Paw Patrol and he likes Daniel

Tiger and you know what I mean? Like that kind of stuff. I think it's all very cool. I don't know. He's just not. Fred Rogers' product. I know. I think it's fine. It's because kindness is not cool. Yeah. Jerks. All right. Do you have for me? So I went with the French actress route.

and somebody who has been in the same sort of realm of actresses like Catherine Deneuve and Isabel O'Pere. I chose for you, Isabel Ajani. Ah, Johnny. This is going to be harder. Story of Adele H. Correct. Oscar nominees. Possession.

Correct. A movie I just saw recently within the last year. a ride. Ooh, girl. Girl, indeed. What a time. Wow. Um, what's her, was it, uh, Claudine something is her other Oscar nomination, right? You're close. Yes, you're thinking of Camille Claudel, and that is yes. Camille Claudel. Camille Claudel. Yeah, that counts. You are three for three. If I get a, I'm not going to get a perfect score on a Johnny, but, um, what a time. time if I did. She was a bond girl, right? I would not be surprised. That's Sophie Marceau.

Well, yes, that is definitely Sophie Marceau. Ooh, what is this last a Johnny? First of all, French cinema gates are going to be like, how dare you pull out Isabella Johnny over when we're talking about Isabella Pair? How shady? I don't think that's shady. For some people, it was shady. Wow, all right. Because, like, I think Ajani thinks she's better

than a new pair, something like, I don't know. It's whatever. Isabella Johnny was married, or not married, but partnered with Daniel DeLewis, and they have a son together, and their son is unsurprisingly one of the most beautiful human beings

I've ever seen in my entire life. Because when your genes are Daniel DeLewis and Isabella Johnny, you are ahead of the game, I will say. I will also say, Johnny is not someone I'm super well-versed in. No, same.

I've seen things that I don't love from her. Okay. What am I just going to throw out for a... I can't give you hints yet because you do not have anything wrong, and I'm not going to hint you into a perfect score. It's not Vlasivoir. Well, that's Bonfoyosh. So, no, that's...

I'm just going to say... Bon voyage Not Bon Voyage Unfortunately One strike Okay Vos of well No

Two strikes Okay So Whatever I want my year Includes Your year is 1979

Okay So sure This is Pre-possession Yes This is a major filmmaker Major European

filmmaker who has quite a character in 79 Yes She's playing It's material that has been adapted often It is about to be adapted again by an American filmmaker

Who I'm very excited to see What It's not Had a Gabler, is it? No, it's much more dark It's much darker and poor Um

Isabella Johnny playing something dark Hmm Likely thing for her to do There are clues that I can give That are really going to give it to you But I want you to like I want you to

A real character of a European filmmaker Who was making movies in 1979 Yes Because it's an adaptation It's not going to be like Godart Right not go dart somebody who continues to be a real fun character Meaning they're not alive so it's not true foe

No, they are alive Yeah, so it's not true foe Directs still But also like shows up as an actor in things And French Not French Not French

So, uh, U.K. Director? Nope. Mainland Europe. Italian. Nope. Damn. German. German.

German director, 1979, still alive. Performs sometimes. Not them vendors. No. It's Werner Herzog? It's Werner Herzog. What was her? Werner-Vernar-Hartsock movie.

Oh, God. You must never guess. You must never guess the answer. Oh, it's the Nostvaratu movie. Nospheratu, the vampire. Very good. Yeah, I could have gotten that. It's Eggers, right, who's doing the new Nosephirot.

Yes, I'm very, very curious. Me too. Me, me, too. All right. Well done. Good job. Isabella Johnny, not easy, and you did it. So very good for you.

All right. That is our episode, listeners. If you would like more of this head Oscar Buzz, you can check out the Tumblr at this had oscarbuzz.com. You should also follow our Twitter account at had underscore Oscar underscore Buzz, our Instagram at This Had Oscar Buzz and our Patreon at patreon.com slash This Had Oscar Buzz, $5 a month, and you can go have fun with us there. Chris, where can the listeners find more of you?

Also realizing Ishtar could have been one of my guesses. You can find me. on Twitter and Letterbox at Chris V-File. That's F-E-I-L. I am on Letterboxed and Blue Sky at Joe Reed. Reed spelled R-E-I-D. We would like to thank Kyle Cummings for his fantastic artwork, Dave Gonzalez, and Gavin Muvius for their technical guidance, Taylor Cole for our theme music. Please remember to rate, like, and review us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Google Play, or wherever else you get podcasts.

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