This Had Oscar Buzz - 273 – Under the Tuscan Sun (Patreon Selects)

Episode Date: January 22, 2024

This week, our Patreon Selects episodes continue and they’re staying in Europe! One of our sponsors has selected for us an Oscar nomination follow-up star vehicle for the divine Diane Lane, 2003’s Under the Tuscan Sun. Loosely adapted from Frances Mayes’ memoir, the film follows Lane as a new divorce gifted a Tuscan vacation who decides … Continue reading "273 – Under the Tuscan Sun (Patreon Selects)"

Oh, oh, wrong house. No, the right house. We want to talk to Marilyn Hack, Merlin Hack and French. I'm from Canada water. Dick Pooh You attend a tour to Romantic Tuscany I am not ready to meet anyone Oh, you won't

It's a gay tour of Romantic Tuscany Oh You are gay and away It's a nice little villa Are you going to buy it? Going, that'd be a terrible idea. Terrible idea. Don't you just love this?

Stop the bus! Hello and welcome to the This Had Oscar Buzz podcast, the only podcast spending Christmas with your favorite French lesbian actresses. Every week on This Had Oscar Buzz, we'll be talking about a different movie that once upon a time had Lofty Academy Award aspirations, but for some reason or another, it all went wrong. The Oscar hopes died, and we're here to perform the autopsy. I'm your host, Chris Fyle, and I'm here. as always, with a man both gay and away, Joe Reed. Harold, they're Italian. Harold, they're Polish.

Harold, some of them are Polish. Yeah, exactly. You know. Do we think that the Polish man that spends the entire movie in a beret, do you think that they told him, we're sending you to France? And he said, let me find a way to fit in.

And little did he know. They were sending him to Italy. He was sent to Italy. Yeah. And then he said, oh, I left behind all of my, I guess you could wear a, well, no, not really a beret in Italy. What's the Italian hat of choice? It's more of a, it's more of like a pork pie hat. Like a newsboy pork pie kind of a thing.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, depending on what kind of. A pork pie, but you have a neckerchief. Sure, if you want to be, yes, if you want to be. Yes, if you want to be like Jude Law in Talented Mr. Ripley or something like that, or you could just do like the sort of like newsboy cap, I pick olives all day, kind of a thing that could also work. There isn't really like a stereotypical. I think the pork pie hat thing that you're describing with the neckerchief is like if you

are a gondolier, like if you would like a career as a gondolier in Venice, then that is what you're wearing when you show up to the Italian border. Like, I would like a job as a gondolier, and they say, come this way. You are coming this way. Can we say also, every time we talk about a movie set in Italy, we tend to reference Captain Corelli's mandolin in some way because we are, our brains are teeny tiny, little smooth little things. And yet, we are talking.

We are talking about a film that is very much about a Bella Bambina. That is literally just a woman who shows up in Italy and everybody, I do love a movie about an American who goes to a foreign country and everybody falls in love with them. It's such an American thing of just like, well, naturally, everybody. Of course they're going to love us over there. We are going to be the new, like, village unofficial mayor. And honestly, like, this movie is fairly sort of self-aware of that kind of thing. and that's one of the things that I like about it, is it exists in this little, like, there's a little bit of a winkiness, and yet, like, it's also not afraid to just indulge in, you know, cliches that we like, and, and, you know, these cliches exist because, you know, they're tried and true a little bit. I would say some of these cliches that's like, this is when those cliches were metastasizing.

Sure, sure. Because it's not, there's nothing so eye-roly in this movie as. there might be and say like eat prey love correct correct yes um granted only part of eat pray love takes place in italy sure but i know what you mean i know what you mean that's sort of like well i found myself in the last place i thought i would ever find it you know what i mean in in in a in a villa in tuscany and no i think that's right i think this is this is obviously sort of fairy tale. You're in a fairy tale realm a little bit. It's like, you know, nothing in this movie happened, nothing that happens in this movie couldn't actually happen in real life, and yet

it usually doesn't, right? Usually, it's never... Even though this is based on a memoir. Right. Listeners do not tell us how close this is to the memoir. I assume that everything in this movie is invented. Well, they put that title card at the end about like, yes, this is based on the book, but yes, we changed a lot of things for dramatic purposes. So essentially it was being like, don't yell at us. So we're going to put that same title card up. This is about the movie. This is not about the book.

I'm happy that you read the book. I probably won't read the book because they have the movie. And the movie is just perfectly fine. But like everything that happens in this movie is within the realm of possibility to happen to a person. And yet it is not remotely in the realm of plausibility. You are never going to end up on a gay tour of Italy where you stop for sheep and you go into the house that you stop in front of and the old lady takes a shine to you. And so I guess I'm doing the plot description. Bird shits on your head.

Bird shits on your head. That's the worst thing that happens to her in this movie besides the breakup. You get this Tuscan Villa fixer upper that then you end up with like the three most dedicated or four most dedicated and loyal sort of. workers you could ever find who dedicate years of their lives to at least a year, right? I'm going by Sandra O's pregnancy. I imagine this takes place over the course of a year-ish. The center-left politics of we are going to draw these cultures together. Yes.

We will be the motivating force of drawing these cultures. But can I tell you- Including queer people. That shit, I eat that shit up with a spoon. Can I tell you? That is my most... When people talk about, like, say, like, liberal as a pejorative, that's sort of my most liberal, like, Fantasia is just, like,

chosen family, like, multiple cultures coming together. She's going to draw... She is going to be the motivating force of drawing these people together. Everyone's bringing something to the table, literally to the table, because, like, we have set up a dinner table, and the generations are there, and queer people are having babies. and young people are, you know, using your bedroom for sex sometimes.

There's a kooky actress. There's a actress dancing in a fountain, and she's the most beautiful woman you ever saw, and she has feathers in her hat, and all she seems to want to do is to give you advice for how to live your best life. She has a felini story that's probably a lie. Probably, but why would you ever disabuse her of that notion? and um and dan bocotinsky is a bitch to you is a real bitch is just a real bitch and that's part of the fantasy too

to be honest to be completely honest hard to believe that there was only one bitchy gay on that gay in a way trip I did have that thought of like oh what a lovely little vacation that is and then I'm like in real life bookotinsky really wouldn't be the only bitchy gay and yet I also could see around poppers as they're, like, on the bud. But I could also see that same, like, Diane Lane is a beautiful, you know, 30-something, maybe 40,

how old do we think she is, early 40s in this movie, maybe? Tour. Woman. And what do gays love more than beautiful, recently divorced? Like, they are going to Stella got her groove back this woman. back to coherence. Like, that's maybe the more. And then the lesbian couples would be like,

God, they're making such a big fucking deal about her. But the lesbian couples put her there on this trip. I don't think. No, the other lesbian couples on the tour, though. Oh, sure, sure, sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, maybe they would also get into the spirit of makeover, makeover. But listen.

It is very Alanchuck. Travel. tour um you know did you say allan chucktuck talk travel core yeah it is i love that turning it into a core though that's good that's um that's perfect um it's just a lovely movie i had seen it for the first time only a few years ago um so it was nice to revisit it uh relatively soon um yeah Yeah. It's great. I love it. And it had a little bit of Oscar buzz. I saw this in theaters with my grandmother. It had a little bit of awards buzz. And honestly, sometimes a little bit is all you need, especially when the patrons are selected.

All you need is last year's nominee opening a movie in late September. Honestly, that's all you need. And then people see the movie. And it's like, oh, this is like the type of thing that people always reduce to its genre. Uh-huh. Doesn't really have a chance. But like the golden globes were into it. By virtue of when it opens in a calendar. Yep. Yeah.

Yeah. The globes were into it. It got an art direction nomination. That's enough. And, uh, you know, maybe the rom-com, uh, you know, oxygen was sucked out of the room by a real contender this year. We'll get into it. We'll get into it. Yes.

Um. Joe, we are doing under the Tuscan sun today because it was. brought to us by one of our patrons. Indeed. We have all month been doing episodes selected by our sponsor tier, patrons over on our Patreon. This one comes to us from Braden. Before we get into Braden's Oscar origin story, Joe,

why don't you tell our listeners about our Patreon? Sure. Yeah, if you would like to join us for even more fun and frivolity, even more Alanchuck. TravelCore. You can join us on... If you want even more gay and even further away, why not take a nice destination over to Patreon.com? We're calling it this had Oscar Buzz,

turbulent brilliance named after, of course, Shirley MacLean's wonderful Oscar acceptance speech for $5 a month, the low, low cost of $5 a month. Remember when they... Oh, God, that's in bad taste. But genuinely, they used to... The phrase used to be for the price of a cup of coffee, you could, X, Y, and Z. $5 is a real cheap cup of coffee at certain places right now.

You know what I mean? So, like, honestly, for like... It's a coffee with cream, you know, nothing special, no espresso. For the price of half of a gingerbread latte, you could get a membership to this at Oscar Buzz Turbulent Brilliance, and you can get two bonus episodes per month at minimum. One of those episodes will be what we're calling an exception. So that is, oh, wouldn't it be nice if we could do this movie for this had Oscar buzz? But, uh-oh, it got one nomination, but it's still like a big, huge Oscar face plant.

So we're going to talk about it on our Patreon movies like Charlie Wilson's War and The Mirror has two faces. We did an episode on Australia with our good friend, Katie Rich. We let our patrons vote on a certain. We should do another poll soon. I was thinking that as well. Um, we got to, we talked about the lovely bones because of that. Um, and then the second episode every month on the 15th, we will talk about, uh, an excursion. So what do we mean by excursion? We mean we're going to go off the beaten path of just like talking about a movie. So we're going to talk about a quirky award show. We talked about the 1996 MTV movie awards. We're going to dip in and just be like, all right, what's the state of the current Oscar race? And we talked about that. We're going to talk about Hollywood Reporter roundtables because we are. good and rightly obsessed with those. We have coming up an episode on, we are selecting our best of awards for 2023 as interpreted through the lens of quirky awards that various

precursors give, like the Best First Feature Award at the Independent Spirits or Best Kiss at the MTV Movie Awards, etc., etc. So you don't want to miss that. I am super excited for how I'm going to populate that list. I may start to prepare that today. because it's getting close. So anyway, all of that can be yours. Plus, we will occasionally, we have a hotline that you can call in and give us questions or prompts, and we will respond to that occasionally. We, like I said, we have polls. You can discuss the episodes in the comments on Patreon, which I have found really, really delightful.

I enjoy hearing from our wonderful Gary's there, wonderful patrons. and it's just been a very good development, I think, for the podcast as a whole. And we are incredibly excited to see where we're going to take it in 2024. So perfect time. We are going to have some fun. Now is the perfect time to go and sign up. You can go to patreon.com slash this had Oscar Buzz. Like I said, it's $5 a month.

What other things can you get for $5 a month? You could get a, oh, I don't know, a... package of King's Hawaiian rolls for $5. Uh-huh. Who doesn't love them? You could get a pack of cigarettes.

That's true. What is Patreon? What is our Patreon not going to do? It's not going to kill you. That's true. What better way to kick off the new year than to quit buying a pack of cigarettes, take one

fewer pack of cigarettes a month? and instead, you get to hear us yam around about stuff twice a month. Like, that's a good trade-off as far as I'm concerned. You could get a happy hour marg. Oh. What you could actually, you could get a McChicken sandwich at McDonald's, which I'm just, my friend and former guest, Matthew Rodriguez, and I are consistently complaining about how expensive the cheap items at McDonald's are these days.

There is no such thing as a value menu anymore on any fast food. It's so sad. It's... Taco Bell is kind of crazy now because that is my fast food of joy. Yeah. Haven't had much lately. Yeah. I'm trying.

But Taco Bell, you used to be able to feed like 20 people on $10. I may, I, that's maybe a thing that has happened. You might be able to feed yourself on $20. Nothing was better than like a bunch of people over at your house, like, just watching weird YouTube shit and just like, let's just order a shitload of Taco Bell. And it's so fun. All right. Anyway. Do you think they have Taco Bell in Tuscany?

I don't know. We would be the Rodded Americans. We would run the Taco Bell franchise in Tuscany. We will open a Taco Bell Cantina hotel. We will buy an old Tuscan villa and turn it into a Taco Bell canteen. They would show up to our villa with pitchforks and torches and they would drag us out into the Palazzo. and they would throw us into the fountain and drown us, is what would happen.

Until they taste the wondrous flavors of grade D meat and cheese that is a electron away from plastic. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, you're making me want. Then they will understand. You're tempting me, Chris. Now you're making me want Taco Bell. And I can't because it is white out outside. Were you my bastard friend who sent me a Taco Bell something?

or other the other day when I was really craving it and trying not to have it. I didn't do that. No. Who did that? I feel like you might have. Okay. Just because I forget one thing doesn't mean you can just like start telling me that I did things that I didn't do and making me believe that I did it. That's not fair. I feel like you're the friend that knows my obsession with the Taco Bell Hotel. Okay. So here we're thinking of somebody else. You're thinking of somebody else. All right. Three layers of the gay experience. Uh-oh. You have the Taco Bell Cantina Hotel. Uh-huh.

You have Trixie Motel. I was going to say Trixie Motel. And then you have Diane Lane In-N-Sweets. Okay. All right. And the In-N-Sweets exists on Diane Lane. Like, we have renamed, you know... The street to Diane Lane.

Yeah, to Diane Lane. Yeah. But it's Diane Lane Inn-N-Sweets, and you can have the unfaithful suite. It rents by the hour. Oh, my. Oh, dear. You can have the... you can have the under the Tuscan Sun Suite.

Most of them are under the Tuscult of the Tuscit. The must love dog suite is pet friendly. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Pet friendly. You can have the Let Him Go Suite. It is Southwestern theme. You can have the Serenity Suite. It overlooks the water.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You have to, but you have to like stand staring out the window the entire time. The whole time. You have two options of what you can do in your room. Have sex with Matthew McConaughey or. stare up. You open the door to the room, and it's just the window. Like, that's all the space you have is to just stand in there in front of the window, while the like ocean breeze. You know, honestly, it wouldn't be a bad time. Um, all right. Okay. We are talking about,

uh, under the Tuscan Sun, and it was selected by one of our patrons. So why don't you, um, uh, give Braden their dude. Braden, thank you for giving us an excuse to rewatch this movie and have a wonderful time. with it. Braiden, uh, shares, uh, the Oscar origin story as we are doing with all of our patrons, uh, this month to make it feel, uh, you know, get a little bit of, uh, knowledge of all of our carries. Braden says, as far as my original Oscar origin story goes, I was born in 1991, rude. And I was raised by a single mom who loved celebrity culture. Entertainment Tonight in People magazine were staples at our house. We also watch the Oscars every year without fail, even the E. Red Carpet Show, my mom would make snacks, and we'd watch from our cozy basement in Utah. I think the first ceremony I remember was 1997, because I think

I remember Count Chocula, aka Juliet Benoche, but I for certain remember the Titanic Ceremony, said nearly every guest, L.O.L. Braden, very true. But it went beyond that. I remember reading the Oscar section of people every Oscar season, they would make predictions and I would follow that discourse religiously. Eventually, in middle school, my mom would print Oscar ballots and we'd have a competition to see who could predict the winners. This is a tradition we carry to this day. I don't mean to brag, but I don't think I've ever lost Braden work. As a closeted queer Mormon kid, I remember quietly rooting for Brokeback Mountain to win, even as people at our church, Oscar Ceremony Day spoke about how it was a sign of the end of times that Brokeback even existed.

Now, I'm no longer Mormon. Hell out and proud and get to listen to Kickass Oscar podcast like this one. Braden, you are too sweet. I love that. This is wonderful. You were right about Brokeback Mountain. That's right. The sign of the end of times was to come with other best picture, well, not other

best picture winners, but, you know, certain best picture winners. Thank you for bringing us this. We love hearing the story of you and your mom as well because, listen, who are we as gay people to not love our mother? Braden, one of these years, let your mom win the Oscar pool. Just like, just let your mom win. Just one time. One time. Give her the w.

Give her the dub. Just one. You can still know in your head that like, yeah, you would have got that. But just, just one time. all right um thank you or you can be like me and just be really petulant about not of trying to put the energy out into the universe that the obvious thing that's going to happen is not going to be the thing that happens but okay in the span of one because last night there was the tweet going around that the osken oppenheimer crew celebrated with snoop dog yeah that's when you were like well the group chat and i was like it's over it's over i mean off and i'm I will say, you know what's funny because, and I've said this for the last few years, I said it with the CODA year and the everything everywhere all at once year. And I think I might have even mentioned this sort of in sort of holistically earlier this season, that in recent years,

Oscar voters tend to want to be on the team of the movie that they vote for. They want to be part of the fun. They want to be part of the crowd. They're all, what a loving group of, you know, cast members and whatever. And I remember thinking, like, that's going to be a little bit hard of a little bit of a hard sell for Oppenheimer. And yet, if you watch the Golden Globes, they kind of pulled it off. They all seem like this, like, wonderful creative family who all seem to really love each other and at least, like, loved working with each other creatively. And I'm like, that's kind of just all you need. They, they didn't seem very stiff. They didn't seem, you know, that's sort of the worry with the sort of like

the impressive biopic about history that you'd seem a little stiff. But like Nolan has seemed his most sort of personable in this award season. If you saw, if you got a chance to see his acceptance speech at the New York film critic circle, he was like, really charming. And, you know, his wife and producing partner has, you know, you get more of a familial sense. with Oppenheimer this year. So I think that's going to be... Probably necessary. I was going to say it at least helps to stave off the idea of like,

aren't we done with this Oppenheimer thing already? Can't we choose something else? I'm a little bored, yada, yada, yada. So good for Oppenheimer. I was going to also say we've recorded episodes back to back this weekend. So we recorded our eight women episode just yesterday. And in the span of 24 hours, we've gone from me being like, oh, this Francis Fisher thing is going to happen for Angenu Ellis.

And now I am all the more certain that it's going to happen for Origin and Best Picture. Yeah. As this episode is dropping. If you're someone who listens to episodes right when they drop. Oscar Nominations are tomorrow. Oscar nominations will be tomorrow. Yeah. So let us be on the record right here that we think, both of us think,

that Origin is getting a Best Picture nomination. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Getting that number 10 slot. This is very exciting. I think it's happening. Yeah. All right.

Because, I mean, you look at PGA and Maestro got in there. All of the gas is kind of out of Maestro that I think... Maestro is on a downward trajectory. You think Maestro's the one to fall. Okay. I think Maestro's the one to fall. Okay. All right.

Interesting. Which one do you think is going to fall? I think it's going to be something... I think it could be like Annamy of a Fall. I don't know. No. I think Anatomy of a Fall is... I mean, like, Anatomy of Fall is going to get that screenplay, Oscar.

Maybe. It's winning original screenplay. Well, it could be zone of interest, although I think zone of interest is more and more ensconced every day, but it could be zone of interest. It could be American fiction, and that would be a bummer for me. What? Could be American fiction, and that would be a bummer, I think, if that was the case. I mean, I think the two most likely to fall out are zone of interest and Maestro. Yeah, I think you're probably right.

Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, it'll be interesting to see what happens, and I personally cannot wait. Check back in with us next week. It'll be the annual... Class of 2020. It'll be class of 2023. Oh, my God.

I feel like we should maybe mix it up a little bit. Maybe come up with some new categories. I think we should. Let's have a little sesh. Let's have a little brainstorming session at some point. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. All right, cool.

All right, now that we've let the listeners in on our problem. process um let's talk about under the tuscan side be careful some listeners want to be like let entirely in on the process they want spreadsheets they want they want to know the ins and outs of how we do things and it's like listen you would probably respect us way let you hit on things if you respect us at all there there and true um under the tuscans under the tuscans once again thank you Braden. What a delight. What a delight. Um, like I said... So, we used to be a proper country that would visit other countries. We used to have movies like this. And now... We used to have, once a year, we used to have a movie

about a woman whose marriage has ended in some way or another. Either she's a widow, or she got dumped, or something. I feel like, if I had had more time to really dedicate to this, I would have come up with, like, A top 10 woman just got divorced and, you know, unexpectedly. She goes forward to feel the rain on her skin. Kind of, yes. Yeah, exactly. Oh, man.

Natasha Bettingfield would have a bit. It's kind of, okay, here's what I will say. Under the Tuscan Sun is a movie that is made for about 10 familiar needle drops and you don't get any. And I think it's- Which is why it's better. I think that's true, and I like the score. Christoph Beck does the score. Christopheck, I will always, of course, appreciate because he was the Buffy Vampire's Lair composer.

I would support a Natasha Bettingfield titular song called Under the Tuscan Sun, where it's like, the end of the chorus is under the Tuscan Sun. Oh. Yeah, I want to match Natasha Beddingfield. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Scream singing the words under the Tuscan Sun. Here's what I will propose is, you know how sometimes movies will release like a black and white cut, like Nightmare Alley and the Mist and stuff like that? Parasite did it. Yes.

I would propose movies like Under the Tuscan Sun do a needle drop cut. Natasha Bettingfield edit. Just like, not just Natasha, but like that is give me, give me KT Tunstall, give me Vanessa Carlton, give me Michelle Branch, just like needle drop, like this is the needle drop cut. This is the one where, and conversely, movies that are obnoxiously too needle-droppy should have a original scorecut. And then, you know what I mean? Well, I like this idea. I could get behind this idea. We should maybe engineer this idea somehow.

Yes. This is our big Hollywood adventure. Remember the age of like the shining as an uplifting comedy trailer on YouTube? YouTube. Oh, yes. Shining. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yes. However, I think under the Tuscan Sun is like just too early for that type of needle drop, like, as a thing. Sure. Because topical, I do think to a certain degree this was pioneered by Shonda Rhymes and Gray's Anatomy. But yes, you're not wrong. But also I'm thinking of like the devil wears Prada, which had like. you know, suddenly I see...

But it would be another three years later. Right, right, right, right. Yes. There's also just an era of like female, a semi-anonymous female singer who just like makes me, like a lot of that music would be in like targets and gaps and such. Like the KTun stalls, the Annalis, the, et cetera. I was talking with a friend and former guest, Kevin O'Keefe. I can't remember in what context this was, but it was somebody who was a writer on a song or something like that, and it turned out to be, oh, God, now I'm forgetting her name, but the girl who did the I'm a girl on the verge of a nervous breakdown song from the first season of Project Runway, remember? And it was Sarah Hudson, Sarah Hudson. And I was like, and Kevin and I were both like freaking out. It was just like, oh my God, Sarah Hudson is still doing stuff. but that, like, that kind of, that kind of thing.

But I love, I love the idea of a needle drop cut. You mentioned Chandra Rhymes, though, and of course, one of my notes that I wrote down was, oh, my God, Christina Yang and Addison Montgomery are a lesbian couple in this movie. And, like, how wonderful. Joe, five minutes for you to go off on Grey's Anatomy. I think I've cut the chord finally, unfortunately. after... I can't believe there's people

that are still hanging on. I can't believe... I can. Because sometimes you're just like, you're in it. And sometimes it's just like, well, these are my stories. You know what I mean? And...

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It basically has gone from prime time prestige to full on primetime soap opera. Like, in the true sense of what a soap opera... Even when it was considered prestige, it was pretty soapy. I...

The thing about Grey's Anatomy is, is I will stick up for it in a way that, like, it did a very good job of replenishing its cast every few years with new cast members that you cared about while still having that core of, like, Meredith and Bailey and who the hell else was still there? The chief. All of them. And I don't think it's necessarily that, like, Meredith's gone now, so I can't really keep up with it. Like, I can't really stick with it. But... Um, it is a little bit of a ship of Theseus thing where it's just like at some point, like, is this Grey's Anatomy anymore? But also I think it's just like I finally had reached, I think the pandemic season kind of broke me and it was hard to reassemble the pieces. The pandemic season was so hard to watch. It was so like anxiety producing, panic attack producing, like really sort of like required you to sit in that trauma that you just, wanted to be passed, and it was the responsible... Almost no television show has done the pandemic well. I think the only one that I've seen that has done the pandemic well was P Valley. Everything else has been like, this isn't as thoughtful as you think it is. Was what show?

Maybe I also don't want to do it. P Valley. Oh, P Valley. Yes, yes, yes. Yeah, P Valley did the pandemic fantastically. I think on some level it was the responsible... It was the responsible thing to do. You're doing a show about a hospital.

You can't just pretend that... the pandemic doesn't exist because it feels callous or cowardly. And yet it just wasn't what I needed at that time. And so I think I'm past Grace Anatomy. I might end up doing a rewatch at some point, or at least like dip in and watch an old season or something like that. That was a show that was... Grace Anatomy, though, hits harder than most shit.

Like, peak Grace Anatomy goes hard. The whole, like, Denny saga, I feel like that has brought us all, brought so many of us together in ways that destroyed us and restored us. My Denny saga was the episode where the gunman is in the hospital and making Meredith do surgery at gunpoint after he shot Derek, and, oh, what a tremendous. this. Anyway, but there's there is a very real thing where for almost all of those cast members

if you were on Grey's Anatomy, you have a little place in my heart. And so watching Sandra O. and Kate Walsh in this as a couple, I was like, as a herald, they're lesbians. As a herald, they're lesbians. And I know that, like, Addison and Addison would never have left Christina the way Kate Walsh's character leaves Sandra O's character in this film.

We'll talk about it. Talk about it all. We'll mention it all, as Bethany says. What this movie, the only thing this movie is missing, besides a Natasha Bettingfield title song, is maybe a private practice cast member. Private practice is, this movie is, you talk about Allenchuk. Travel Corps, this movie is private practice core, I think, in a lot of ways. Audra McDonald shows up as a tourist who also decides to live in Italy and then because. comes Sandra O's new lover. You talk about how we used to have one of these movies a year. It is a crime that we never got Audra McDonald doing a woman gets divorced and finds herself a kind of a movie. Oh my God. Okay. We do kind of still have these type of movies. It's just they're not

made with the level of skill, care, and consideration that they used to be. Now they're just dog shit that looks awful. It's the Julia Roberts, on Netflix without fanfare. It's the Julia Roberts George Clooney movie that I think we all wanted to be better than it was, and I think we all really tried to capture that magic. What was it called? Ticket to Paradise. It bummed everybody out so much that I was like, well, I guess I'm not going to watch this.

I watched it. I think I was really like, no, we're going to recapture the magic. It's going to happen. And it just... I do want to catch up to anyone but you because... People don't like it, but it's succeeding. So there's that. I think because people want these type of movies.

Yeah. And they want them to not look like poorly shot Netflix movies that are basically lifetime movies just on a bigger, you know, availability. Sure. Yes. Although, well, that's a longer discussion that we don't really need to get into in terms of, like, what looks like a Netflix movie, what doesn't look like a Netflix movie, and sometimes. you can look like a Netflix movie and not beyond Netflix and vice versa. I mean, we'll talk about this movie in context or in conversation with something's got to give because Nancy Myers has talked about one of those things because you know, she's, as people realize how much her movies have cost in recent years,

you know, people look at that somewhat skeptically and like her response has been, yeah, but, you know, it's on the screen. It is on the screen. And I think, She's not pocketing the money. She's not, like, going home with, like, you know, I don't know, like, it's spending screen. But because that level of, like, craftsmanship goes into a movie like hers or a movie like this, which this movie definitely didn't have a Nancy Meyer's budget, but it still looks fantastic. It, you know, the result is a movie that makes money in perpetuity. like all Nancy Myers movies people still watch them maybe they don't watch what women want as much but like you could drop what women want on Netflix and it's going to show up I bet you what women want plays well what women want used to be on TNT like once a month you know what I mean like it was just like that's a movie that plays on television and under the Tuscan Sun has to be one of those too like it it's weirdly not had a ton of availability and I think it's because this is a Touchstone movie, so Disney owns the rights, and, like, Disney's figuring out what to do with their non-IP stuff and where to put it, and, like, why does this movie not live forever on Hulu? I don't understand. But, like, this is a movie that I hear brought up often. So it's like, this is something that, this is a movie that people do revisit, and, like, it is a comfort watch for a lot of people. Yeah. There's also, there's a talented Mr. Ripley origin story to this movie, right, a little bit?

where, wasn't it something about like Anthony Mangello was traveling to Italy and met the author of the book? And that ended up, God, I'm misremembering this story now. But I remember hearing about that. I thought you were going to say that Matt Damon kills Diane Lane and then he's a week and a dress. Let's start sleeping with an Italian. No, no, I mean in terms of like the, the, the, behind the scenes, like, how this movie got, um, got made, essentially. I'd never heard that, but that's fascinating.

Yeah. Um, wait, sorry. One of only two movies directed by Audrey Wells, which I find to be a shame. Also, Gwynnevere, the Sarah Pauley, Gwynabier movie. But she's done a lot of screenwriting, Audrey Wells. Yes, um, up in... But clearly she's good at producing this type of movie. Yeah.

She wrote, um, uh, let's see. Directing, you know. What's that? I was like, or directing. I don't mean producing as in like serving a producing role, but working to create. I should say was, by the way, unfortunately. Audrey Wells did die in 2018. Oh, well, that is an absolute shame.

Yeah. Should have had more movies. Should have had more movies. But wrote Shelby Dance and co-screenwriter on Georgia the Jungle, which is why we get a clip of Georgia the Jungle in this movie wrote the script for The Truth About Cats and Dogs The Hate You Give came out shortly after her death

but she wrote the screenplay for the George Tillman movie The Hate You Give So yeah she had I believe she had cancer and she died in 2018 unfortunately But this movie is a good tribute to her What a wonderful gift though

Yes What a, like, to have a movie to leave behind as a legacy that people watch again and again. And I know people who like really, really love this movie. Shout out to our good friend Bobby Finger, who I know loves this movie. So, yeah. So, should we get into a plot description? Yes. All right.

So listeners, we are here brought to you by Braden. We are talking about Under the Tuscan Sun, written and directed by Audrey Wells based on Francis Mayas' memoir, sort of, we think. Yeah. Starring the one and only Diane Lane, Lindsay Duncan, Sandra O, Kate Walsh, with cameos by Dan Pucatinsky, and Raovo. The movie opened September 26, 2003. Joe, you are charged with doing our 60-second plot description. Are you ready?

Yeah, I'm winging this one, so yikes, but we'll see. All right, then your 60-second plot description of Under the Tuscan Sun starts now. So Diane Lane plays a woman named Francis. Her husband was cheating on her having an affair. And in the divorce, she loses the house to pay as alimony. So she ends up gifted with a gay tour of Italy by her lesbian friend couple. And on the tour, she ends up by happenstance and serendipity in a villa that is up for sale and a pigeon shits on her head and she ends up buying this villa in Cortona, Italy. And then it's a real fixer-upper. And so she hires this crew of Polish immigrants to help her work on the house. And the guy who sold her the house sort of has a crush on her, even though she's married. And she meets Lindsay Duncan, who is a free-spirited woman who said she was Felini's muse. And she keeps encouraging Diane Lane to, like, live a little, essentially.

And Diane Lane meets some men. And, oh, motherfucker. The guy who she's seeing who she sort of falls for ends up, of course, being a womanizer and whatever. and Sandra O breaks up with Kate Walsh, and then she's pregnant, and she moves to Italy, too, and she has the baby there, and then the house gets fixed up, and everybody sort of lives together and dines together and loves together, and it's a beautiful setting, and they have, you know, a life there, and that's, this is better than finding a man, even though she does find a man, but it's Christopher from Gilmore Girls, and I don't trust him, so they at the end. 22 seconds over. Yes, the movie does end with being. like she's going to fuck this guy. She gave a bad review. And you know what? Maybe not him, but good for her. I, you know what? He's very handsome. It's not that character's fault that I have bad associations with that guy from Jim. He's going to be there for a long time. He's going to be there for a good time. Well, he's there at Christmas when they flash forward to Christmas and it's Christmas dinner and he's there and he's, you know, they seem to be coupled up. So there is that. But this is a movie that ends at Christmas dinner. So this is officially technically. a Christmas movie. So put that in your place. Official Christmas movie under the Tuscan Sun,

spread the good gospel. Spread the word. Yeah, I mean, there was a lot of, like, I guess I could have gotten into, I guess the one thing I didn't get into in the plot description is the sort of teenage love story between Pavel, the youngest of the Polish workers, and what the hell is the girl's name? I don't even know. She basically endorses their union. I don't know why she's telling very, very young people to get married. But, you know, well, the point of that whole scene. Well, would grow up in about 20 years to go and get an Oscar nomination for directing a motion picture called Cold War. So good for, you know, all from Diane Lane's list influence.

I like that scene, though, because the point of that scene isn't so much, like, I don't know if anybody, if we all, you know, believe in the long-term viability of this couple, but, like, we can all hope for the best. But I think it's more so that just, like, she claims Pavel and the. other sort of people in her life as family. And I think, and I love a movie, I love a chosen family narrative. I know it makes me feel very, very square. But it's only square if like the movie says the words chosen family. Sure, of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I like, there's that moment she sort of has that. I also love when people come to realizations in the middle of saying something. And she comes to the realization that like, yes, this is my family here. these, you know, these people who have been working on my house for a year, this realtor who

really seems to... My employees are my family. This realtor who seems to really like reminding me that if he didn't have a wife, we'd be fucking like crazy. God, I wanted him to get a divorce so they could fuck. I did want him to get a divorce. I felt so bad about that. I was like, maybe the wife can just, like, go somewhere. Well, and maybe it would be too tropey if, like, that character was single and like we knew all along it would be leading towards them getting together because the movie is so much more about her and her journey than finding a man, which I love

about this movie. I think this movie is very clever about that because I think as soon as she moves to Italy, you are essentially as a viewer on the lookout for like, who's the man, who's the one who she's going to end up with. Is it the realtor? Is it the guy at the dinner table who, is flirting with her? No, he's married. Is it Marcello, who she bumps into on the street while trying to, like, flee three aggressively flirting Italians? Um, uh, no, he's at a, and like, I love that the answer to all of these things is like, listen, they're all Italian men. And you know Italian men. They're all married, but they all want to have sex with you anyway. And, um, that's sort of, and some of them are nice about it. And some of them are creepy about it.

and some of them are outright liars, and that's just what you have to deal with when it's Italian men, and then she ends up with an American in Italy, and I don't know what that's supposed to say about things, but you know what, I'm not going to stress about it. I'm not going to worry about it. It's not my problem, and Italians are fine. Italians have a global reputation as, you know, fantastic lovers, and they're going to be all right, so this is fine. A global reputation that they have maybe perpetuated themselves. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Justice for the Italian realtor.

Justice for the Italian realtor. Who, like, a, you couldn't have in a lab put the exact perfect amount of salt in that salt and pepper hair. Like, it's so, it feels like, you know how sometimes you see chefs place gold leaf on things? you're like, how do you use those tweezers and manipulate the gold leaf so precisely? And that's how I imagine people with this guy's hair, just like, a little bit of gray, a little bit of gray, just a little bit of gray. And that's how he ends up. He showed up on screen, and I was like, I'm going to Italy, I'm going today. Ticket, going today. See, that, my version of that was the second Lindsay Duncan showed up on screen with

feathers in her hat and a French vanilla ice cream cone. Rubbing a duck on her face. And an ice cream cone that is oh so slightly melting, and I'm just like, I just want to like, can I just be your assistant? Can I just be your like, can I just sort of like just the woman who rubs baby ducks on her face? You don't want to spend that much time with this woman. I do kind of want to just bask in her from time to time. Maybe Diane, maybe Frances has it figured out that like I run into her once every few days and we like we hang out for maximum 25 minutes. And then we sort of go on our. way. And maybe that's the perfect dosage of Catherine. But like, I just want to bask in that performance. I think Lindsay Duncan is fucking radiant in this movie. Wonderful in this movie. Totally freaking it too. Yeah. The scene where she's wearing

something that is conceivably a feather boa bathing suit. Oh my God. Nothing else. What the hell? What would that constitute as? Or was it just a boa intricately covering? When she's getting when she's, the guy is drawing her like, one of her French, one of his French girls, yeah. One of his Italian girls.

Well, he was Greek, right? That was the whole thing of, like, his, you know, he's descended from Zeus or whatever. One of the Pan-Euro girls. And all you see of this guy is his little bum in teeny tiny underpants. And I don't think you ever really see his face. It's kind of funny. She's living it. Lizzie Duncan is wonderful in this movie.

I love her so much. And I, I am a fan in general. funny, the first thing I'd ever seen her in, she's this, like, great, you know, English actress or whatever. Theater actress, yeah. Theater actress, although actually, oh, interesting. She was, she's born in Scotland. All right.

Fabulous. But anyway, first thing I had ever seen her in was Rome, the HBO sort of historical sex and blood drama Rome, which she was really tremendous in. but she plays a very kind of, her character gets done to a lot. Like, a lot of bad things happened to poor. I think it's, what was her name? Servilia. Servilia, yes.

God, I can't believe I still remember that name. And so it's funny that, like, since then, I see her in a lot of things where she's, like, incredibly confident or incredibly, sort of in this, she's incredibly sort of, you know, forthright and sexy and whatever. And then you'll see her in something years later, like, about time. And she's just like this sort of, you know, a witheringly blunt and honest kind of a woman. And everything I see her in, I just find her to be absolutely captivating. I think she's one of my faves.

And I will talk about Roger Michel's weekend. She's everyone's least favorite thing. about Birdman. Well, but that's not her fault. That's the character's fault. I don't think that's on her performance. I actually think I'm so happy to see her in that movie that I don't mind that character or the way that she's written. Sure, sure, sure.

I think she totally sells it in a way that makes it not annoying to me. That's, that's fair. That's fair. I love her in Roger Michelle's Lou weekend. And, of course, the about time. with Jim Broadbent. I think that's a tremendous movie. That's a movie that ends with, not ends with,

but at some point, she and Jim Broadbent and Jeff Goldblum just sort of start dancing together. Jeff Goldblum, who plays an animated pork pie hat in that movie, and it's really good. She's really good in a movie called another Roger Michelle movie called Blackbird that really nobody saw, that I saw Toronto the one year, with Susan Sarandon and Kate Wally. Winslet Susan Sarandon plays a woman with a terminal illness who has sort of gathered her family

around to sort of set things before she shuffles off, and Lindsay Duncan plays her best friend, and it is very good. Love her. Love, love, love, love her. All right, everybody, stop your hammering and your stone removal on the Tuscan Villas. that you are renovating, we have to talk... Lindsay Duncan, put some clothes on. We have to talk about Vulture Movie Fantasy League, because as you are listening to this, if you

are the kind of person who cannot wait one second to listen to this, then you may be listening to this before the Oscar nominations have been announced. Otherwise, you are listening to this after they've been announced, but you are coming to us from the future. We are in the past, who don't know the Oscar nominations yet.

So we are going to talk about the most recent point in flux for the M4G, for the movie fantasy league, which is the M4G's winners and also the massive list of BAFTA nominations, which I'm looking at my notes that I have when I, when I, I'm very low-fi when it comes to updating the scores, which is why I have to like triple check myself. But like my note page, my notebook, like this is the page of scores for BAFTA. It is just shock fucking full. So in general, the BAFTA nominations were on trend in that they were very friendly to Oppenheimer. Things have really been drifting Oppenheimer's way over the last few weeks.

This is sort of the greater trend. It was the first real kind of disappointing day for Barbie in the award season. It's still got some nominations, but 80 total points for the Fantasy League purposes, which is Oppenheimer, for a point of comparison, got 190. So not a great day for Barbie. Another bad day from May December, as May December continues to sort of fade out of the awards conversation. May December, it had a bad day when it didn't make a lot of the BAFTA long list, though, so it wasn't going to show up at BAFTA. That's fair. I think what's interesting points-wise for BAFTA is a lot of the top nomination getters also missed a lot of key nominations that might get you more points if you drafted those movies.

I'm thinking of, you know, poor things, missing the director nomination, supporting actor nominations, also Killers of the Flower Moon, missing for Lily Gladstone and Scorsese. Yeah. The fact that all of us strangers got a ton of nominations, this is probably the best day for all of us strangers in the fantasy that got 100 points, all told, but missed for Andrew Scott, you know what I mean? So it's one of those things where it's just like, there are some inconsistencies. The Colors of the Flower Moon, as you say, misses a bunch, but does get the picture nomination. So, like, what, you know, I think that's been my, a little bit of a, my stopper when it comes to people kind of trying to freak out over Killers of the Flower Moon, not showing up. There was a lot of, as we saw with, when the May-December actors missed out on SAG and everybody's like, it's all over. And we saw a lot of that with Killers of the Flower Moon. And I guess it's just going to happen every year that, like, people will overreact to things. And people's memories are very short. I think Lily Gladstone not getting nominated at BAFTA means about as much as Regina King not getting nominated at SAG that year. It doesn't mean anything. Like, I think we still have the winner right here. I think that's true. Although I cannot lie, I am now starting to put that category into play a little bit more. I think Emma Stone is looking a little bit stronger than I maybe thought she would. And I think there is a wild card factor to Sandra. Huller, that I think there will be votes spread out a little bit in that category in a way that I

wasn't sure about. So we'll see how that goes. I wouldn't put it outside the realm of possibility that Sondra Huller wins BAFTA. I wouldn't either, actually. I think that's probably a decent. Although Emma Stone has sort of become kind of honorary British lately, which is fun. And she's the face of poor things more than like Yorgos. Lantamos is in a way.

I think that's right. I think that's right. The supporting categories are interesting in that they speak to a couple of trends that I wanted to mention. In our group chat with Katie, I sort of advanced to this notion and I don't think I got a lot of receptiveness. But I don't think the story of Saltburn has been told. Saltburn's getting an Oscar nomination, I think. I think it is, but I think it could be getting a hubble Oscar nominations. Yeah, I know. Could be laughing at me.

But I think it's getting at least a Oscar nomination. I think especially Barbie moving out of original screenplay. We're going to get an interesting original screenplay lineup, possibly. I think that's right. I don't think Barry Keogan is getting an actor nomination, but if it happens, I'm not going to be the most surprised I've ever been in my life. Do you know what I mean? Because I think that category has a lot of churn to it at the moment. So I am also intrigued by Dominic Sessa showing up in holdovers at this late stage.

I feel like it doesn't happen every year, but a lot of years, somebody will show up in a late nomination, whether it's like a SAG nomination or a BAFTA nomination, and they hadn't really been considered before. And you're like, huh, that's weird. And then they get the Oscar nomination. And in retrospect, you're like, oh, yeah, like, their buzz had been sort of building this whole time. And, well, and, like, isn't it so nice when we agree? Because I'm with you on this, too. Yeah. And the holdovers seems to be gaining momentum.

Yeah. Very much so. I also floated to you earlier this week. I'm like, who is the holdovers voter that ranks it last on their preferential ballot? I don't know if that voter. exists. I, who am even like somewhat reserved on my love for the holdovers wouldn't put it in a likely last place.

Right. So I don't know. I don't know who that photo is, but the holder versus sitting pretty. And of course, you know, late listeners could be laughing at us imminently. Well, but I'm just saying, like we're going to throw that out there. I think that's got a better chance than, say, T.O.U. in past lives, which was also sort of a surprise, late stage nominee at the BFTAs. I'm trying to look sort of a little bit further down. It's interesting. Court Jefferson getting the adapted screenplay nomination for American fiction. It was its only BAFTA nomination, which I think people are taking as a sign of weakness. But I think knowing the BFTA's, as you do, which sometimes when movies are very American and also, to be very frank,

like feature black American talent, they don't translate as well with BAFTA for... The simple stat of the BAFTAs have never nominated Denzel Washington. Right. Right. So I think getting the Adapted Screenplay nomination weirdly shows how strong American fiction really is. I'm still anticipating a really good showing for it at the Oscars. Again, listeners, you're judging me by my success or failure as we speak. I think the documentary field is starting to firm up in that it feels like we have a decent handle on maybe four of the five, in that American Symphony, 20 Days in Mario Poll, Beyond Utopia, and the Michael J. Fox movie seem to be showing up kind of everywhere. Yes, yes.

And same with animated film. because I didn't think the Michael J. Fox documentary was very good, but I wonder if that's maybe the weakest of those four, because to me it feels the most like, is this a TV thing or was this theatrical? I get that. Who knows what the documentary branch will think. The documentary branch is probably the most willing to overlook something like that. Also, the fact that, like, Davis Guggenheim is a sort of major figure in that, in that world. animated feature feels like we also have like a strong core of Boy in the Heron, Spider-Man across the Spider-verse, elemental, and then maybe a couple wild cards there. Super Mario Brothers, I guess, if I'm being pessimistic, although I still, you know, I'm maybe holding out hope that the voters come to their senses. The odds do not stand that an Illumination movie will get an Oscar nomination. It's been showing up a lot of places, though, unfortunately.

has, it has. Anyway, so in terms of just like points boosts, I think, even something like, Killers of the Flower Moon, which everybody sort of took to having a really disappointing day, had 110 fantasy points. You know what I mean? This is the exact same number of points as anatomy of a fall. You know what I mean? So your top three points getters were Oppenheimer with 190, poor things with 140, which is, again, poor things missed out on a director nomination. it still got that, you know what I mean? And then holdovers with 130.

One other thing I wanted to mention is in the Crafts categories, Napoleon pulled in four nominations for 40 points in the fantasy league, which I wonder if that is a bellwether for it getting two to four Oscar nominations.

I think Napoleon will probably be an Oscar nominee. It's sort of holding the band. for big, fighty battle sound, you know, maybe even editing would be a stretch, but, like, there's... Visual effects is so weak that I think the exploding horses, you know? Got to have an exploding horse somewhere on your Oscar ballot. That's what I always say. Yeah, I think that in Society of the Snow are the two movies in the Crafts categories that I'm interested to see where they sort of disperse. nominations there so i've kind of landed on society of the snow

is topping out at like maybe three i think the people who were i think three would be good for society of the snow though you know what i mean i think of society the snow is a three time oscar nominee i think that's a good outcome for that movie i also think that it could like get two to three nominations without showing up an international feature i think that's also true because of things like makeup etc Sorry, I had to take a big swing of my water. If I don't remember to edit that out, just know that, like, realism and... Joe is dramatically having water, and I'm having...

Here's the stat I want to throw it. Oh, yes, throw a stat. Ahead of the Oscar nominations, now that we have all of the major precursor nominations on there, the major precursors being BFTA, SAG, Golden Globe, PGA, DGA, DGA, obviously, not the, not for the stat that I'm going to give. And then also, Indy Spirit, if they're eligible. These are the performances that have landed all of the major precursors. Everywhere they can, yeah. Dave, I enjoy Randolph, Danielle Brooks, Emily Blunt, Robert Downey Jr., Robert De Niro, which I think people aren't realizing

that he has hit everywhere because people think that he's weak for some reason. And again, again, again, caveat, caveat, who you could all be laughing at us right now. Yeah. Ryan Gosling, Paul Giamatti, Killian Murphy, Coleman Domingo, Bradley Cooper, Emma Stone,

Margot Robbie, Kerry Mulligan. Of that list, because we have seen it time and again that people will get every precursor and then miss. It's not exactly unheard of for that to happen. Of that list, who do you think is the most likely to get the big surprise snub. We've had a lot of conversation about Carrie Mulligan and my feelings about

Carrie Mulligan in this race this week. I'm still somewhat inclined to guess her because best actress, there's so much going on. There's so much going on. And I think that that performance is fairly understated as much as that campaign has tried to, and like, she has first billing in the movie. Like, as much as that, I don't know how much that's elevated her or not. But I think given the amount of things that could happen, I'm inclined to say, Kerry Mulligan.

Yeah, that makes sense. Who in that list would you maybe? I mean, it surprised me to see that Danielle Brooks had hit everything because I have thought of her as sort of like hanging on. in this race. Because of the movie. Because of the movie, I think she's the best thing in the movie, and I love her, and I really would love her to get nominated. But I look at that category, and I see Randolph is solid, Blunt is solid.

I think Julianne Moore, even though she missed Bafta, is pretty solid. And she missed Bafta and saddest. What's that? Julianne Moore is not honest. No, I just in terms of like, who's going to end up in supporting that race, right. Of that particular race. I think Sandra Huler is looking more and more like a threat and all supporting as well. In supporting for zone of interest.

And then all of a sudden it's like, okay, well, now we're into like one slot for, you know, Jody Foster or, uh, or Danielle Brooks or perhaps Rosamond Pike, you know, You know what I mean? You know, who knows? So. I think Daniel Brooks is probably safe. I hope so. I hope so.

It's just because of how much she's been talked about. And, like, I do think, like, that campaign, as far as the cast is concerned, did well enough that, like, someone's getting a vote there. Yeah. I hope so. I hope so. I also just need, this is independent of your question. I need one person from the all of a stranger's cast to be nominated.

I want it to be Andrews. most definitely. But, like, as long as it's somebody, I will be happy. Even if it's Clairfoy, and you know I have, like, complicated thoughts about Clairfoy, but... There has to be a comparison point, too. And, like, I hate the way that sometimes people trot out certain stats in comparisons because it's like, well, you reverse engineered that stat in a way. But, like, there has to be a comparison point for Andrew Scott getting nominated. But, you know, when you see him not getting nominated at certain places where it's like, that would have been his shot to get nominated.

Like that doesn't. Yeah. You know. It's a bummer. I think Andrew Scott and Natalie Portman are going to be the people that I'm going to be talking about for the next 20 years being like, I can't believe they didn't get nominated for those performances. I thought they were so good.

Um, you know, were they each other's variety actors on actors or am I mistaken? Hold on. I don't think so. Hold on. Um. Yeah. Andrew Scott No, it was Andrew Scott and Greta Lee

It was Natalie Portman and Was that Paul Meskell this year? Sure, because what would it have been Portman? Oh, last year, right, good call, yes. Yeah, so it was Portman and Paul Meskull. So I was emotionally correct. Oh, my God, I can't get to stop playing. Anyway, if you picked up Natalie Portman's voice on my headphones, that's why.

Anyway, I am currently fourth place in the podcast league. Are you? I am. Katie Rich's second. I think you're looking at the last score update. Oh, is there still another update? Cut that out. No, no, no.

I'm sure I still did well, because, like, Bafta alone, my ballot. What I'm saying is, I think the last time I checked you were in first place. Diva! But that's just before the Oscar nominations, and I don't know whether that's going to, who knows whether that's going to push you higher or lower. But last I looked in the newest update. I will be so annoying on this, on these updates. I do, I do dread it in, um, in a not insignificant way, if you were to finish for just because of the, of the bragging, the year-long, anytime we would disagree.

Katie Rich, by the way, last I checked, before the Oscar nominations, was in third. So, very competitive. But just any time we would disagree, and you would say, don't forget, I did win the Voltner. movie fantasy league podcast for me. I think it's unlikely that I will be in first place. What do you think? Considering what my, considering what my league is, I think that's unlikely. I think I benefited from some recent stuff. What's your weak spot? What's your Achilles heel in your lineup? Priscilla. I have Priscilla. Yeah. Taste of things is mine. Taste of things in Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles where I'm like, I took a chance, I took a shot, and it hasn't paid off.

So whatever. All right, I just did also want to say the AARP Movies for Grownups Awards, quite unceremoniously, literally unceremoniously. Truly. Just like announced their winners via press release because apparently they're not having a televised award ceremony or award ceremony of any kind. I agree. Listen, if you needed someplace to have it, we're right here. We have a platform. we would happily host we would happily host

I feel like we would go as well in that room as Joe Coy would but you know first of all how dare you we would do so much better but anyway so the winners

were very M4Gs in a way where if you looked at the nominees and you were like L.O.L. Annette Benning and Nyad L.O.L. Jody Foster and Nyad jokes on you, motherfucker. They both won. Oh yeah. They were always going to win. As did Coleman Domingo for Rustin, as did Robert De Niro for Killers of the Flower Moon.

The sort of funnierer ones for me, Noah Bomback and Greta Gerwig winning for best screenwriter for Barbie, which I don't know if you... The one thing that Barbie could have won. I don't know if you remember the first time you ever got a cold mailer from AARP, which just announced... I still haven't. Birds, birds, double birds, right in the screen for you. The first time I ever did, I was, I might not have been 30 yet. I might have been, like, just around 30. And I got a AARP mailer.

And I also got, this is when I was living in Park Slope with my friend Mark. And one of us, and I think it was me, got a cold mailer. It might have just been, like, too resident, right? But it was, like, purchase your own funeral plot. And I was like, oh. dare you on the eve of me turning 30 how dare you

but anyway so I thought that was what I thought of when I saw They were like This bitch needs his own He needs a he needs a grave site That's sort of what I thought of when I saw Noah Bomback and Greta Gerwig winning the AARP Award for Barbie when they're just like hey we're young

Sleep a slow He literally made a movie called while we're young That's true Her more specifically I'm just like you know But let's not be ushering Greta into the AARP demo quite so soon. What were your thoughts on the M4G's winners where Killers of the Flower Moon took best picture? And Nolan for Oppenheimer took best director.

My thoughts are exclusive to bring back a live show. Yes. Bring back the categories that you have axed. And you know what? Go crazy. This needs to be old people MTV movie awards. I don't want to say old people like pejorative, but like that's what. it needs to be.

Yes, I agree. Who should be like the, the, um, every year is just sort of there in the audience. The, uh, who is the Jack Nicholson of the M4Gs? Sure. Yeah. Is it Judy? Is it Judy Dench so long as she can, uh, still still see the stage? No, let her, let her have a relaxing life.

Yeah. It should be, it should be Lois Smith. Oh, yes. Lois, come join us. Yeah. My goodness. It should be. Imelda Staunton.

Diane Ladd. Diane Ladd. Nominee Leslie Ugums. No, what would have been perfect as if Leslie Uggams won for supporting actress for... For American Fiction. Yes, absolutely. I agree. Although I do love the Jody one for Nyat, which is a very AARP nomination in that it's like, not only is she a lady of a certain age, but both her and Benning, is they're active, right?

I'm sure there's so many things in AARP magazine about like staying active past 60 or whatever and God bless. We love it. All right. Movie Fantasy League, as you are listening to this, the Oscar points will probably be in there. It's a whole new ball game. Then it's a matter of a race to the finish line for the Oscars. But the Oscar nominations will be a massive influx of points. So it will. We'll see how much it changes the game. Right now, we have this logjam of seven identical rosters that are at the top of the chart right now. A logjam that concludes two from the All of Us Gary's League. So shout out to Pige and Bob 2 for holding it down for the Gary's. We shout you out. And Teresa May, December, who was only a few points behind. in eighth place. Oh, sorry, it's also it's Pigeon Doctor, it's Bob 2, and it's Thank

the Pig. All three of you are Gary's members. Then we have a couple of people from the Little Gold Men League, Atomic Violet and Telehop. We have someone from the Blankies League, Dick Bainman's Bongos, and someone from a league called Asteroid City Council that is Asteroid City Director of Sanitation, and you know we love Asteroid City. So, that is currently the logjam. We'll see if the Oscar nominations bust that up at all. If not, y'all better be thinking about what you chose as your tiebreaker answer. And we'll see how that goes.

Anyway, Oscar nominations just around the corner for us, just behind you for y'all. And we'll see you on the other side. It is, by the way, vulture.com slash movies-league. if you want to go check out the current scoreboard, and listen, good game. Good gaming, y'all. We should talk about Diane Lane, though, the star of the film. What a good performance that she gives. Just, like, what a charming, wonderful performance that in a movie that could

be so cloying. Like, we've all seen the not-so-very-good version of this movie. We've seen the annoying version of this movie. Absolutely. But so perfectly calibrated to try to bring the less-than-believable moments of this movie into some grounded human emotion. Yeah. Yeah.

Just a very, very charming performance. And, like, I would argue a movie star performance, even though she's, you know, more, she doesn't ever really feel on screen to me like someone who is, she feels more actory than starry, for lack of a non-trite way of putting that, you know, in her intentions as a performer. Yep. But it does feel like she's capitalizing on the success of unfaithful in a way that makes you feel like Hollywood really missed the boat in not casting her in more things, though.

Granted, this kind of starts a somewhat rom-com career for her as that's kind of dying out, because the next thing she does is must love dogs, which is awful. I've never seen it. Is it awful? Oh, God. Awful. Oh, awful, awful. Yeah.

And it's sad that things kind of quickly dry up. It feels like she got one in before these type of movies died out because she really does seem like she would be, have such a career if a certain type of movie kept being made. Yeah. And it's like, go into the career of Diane Lane because we talked about her, but not for a long time. Yes. Since we did Secretariat in, I think, double-digit episodes. Yes. Yes. So her first major role is in a film called A Little Romance directed by George Roy Hill.

George Roy Hill is the guy who directed Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid and The Sting. I have not seen that movie. She stars opposite Lawrence Olivier in that film. So just from the beginning, she kind of like she was sort of an up-and-coming talent pretty quickly. Her, well, she's in, she's in, like, Cattle Annie and Little Britches, which is a movie that I know of as a title, more so that I know of as a movie. She's the titular Little Britches. She is Little Britches, in fact.

She's in, Ladies and Gentlemen, the Fabulous Staines movie that I've been meaning to watch forever, which is this sort of, like, girl punk rock band, and it's her, and it's Laura Dern, and, um, oh, who the hell? else is in it. But I have always meant to watch that, and I haven't yet. So that's on my list of my ever... So you answer your question, Christine Lottie. Christine Lottie is in it. Fantastic. And then she's sort of, the thing that I kind of first knew her as was she was a big deal during Francis Ford Coppola's teen drama phase, where he was like adapting all the S.E. Hinton books. She was in The Outsiders. She's in Rumblefish.

And then she's also in the Cotton Club, which is Coppola's big sort of mid-80s disaster. She's also in Streets of Fire, another movie that I've been meaning to watch. Ever since I mentioned it on this podcast and everybody, having not really heard of it, and everybody was like, you've never heard of Streets of Fire. And it's, and how dare you not love these things that we heterosexual men adore? I don't even know if it's necessarily that, but I will say, now, every time I, now that I, you know, read a little bit about it, I do super want to see it, because it does seem amazing. It sounds like Diane Lane Slay, so I am absolutely on board.

Yes. Early 90s, through most of the 90s, actually, she works pretty regularly. It's not these, like, big, like, critically acclaimed things. She marries Christopher Lembert. They're in a movie called Night Moves together. She's in Chaplin. She's an Indian Summer, which was a movie that was on TV a lot, so I watched that a lot. She's in the Sylvester Stallone, Judge Dredd, playing a character named Judge Barbara Hershey, which is, you know, I imagine an inside joke of some sort.

She's in Jack, another Francis Ford Copeland movie. She's in Murder at 1600. She's playing sort of like, excuse me, like, the... The top-billed woman in movies where, like, that character isn't super important. But she's in, she's sort of, in murder at 1600, she seems like the Renee Rousseau to Wesley Snipes, Clint Eastwood in, if we're talking about a, in the line of fire situation. Yeah. Big role for her is one we've talked about on this podcast before with our friend Tara Ariano, a walk on the moon. Which we both loved.

And actually, yes, we talked about that since we talked. about Secretariat, and she's so good in that movie. Yep, yep, she's so good in that movie. And I think was critically acclaimed, so I think that put her a little bit on the road towards where she goes in the early 2000s. She's in the perfect storm playing, um, Walberg's wife. Who's, she's somebody's wife, yeah. Yeah.

Um, yes, girlfriend. They're not married in that movie, but yes, she's in the glass house that, uh, terrible Lili Sob. S. Gay Thriller, The Glass House, playing a bad guy in that. So that's kind of cool. She's in the Keanu Reeves baseball movie Hardball. And then... Noted 9-11 Cinema Hardball. Yes, that's right. Yes. And then comes 2002, and she's in this Adrian Line sex thriller. Imagine that. Adrian Line directing a sex thriller. Unfaithful, which releases in the spring of... summer i thought i thought it was like may it's may early may so wasn't it like star wars counter programming or am i remembering that wrong maybe let's see star war yeah oh two well yeah but um when did episode two star war's episode two the attack of the clones released in the united states on may 16 so it was the week before Attack of the Clones. But it was a hit.

She is tremendous. Tremendous. Tremendous in it. But she's acclaimed. But in that way where it's just like, well, it's a spring movie. Of course, 2002 notoriously the backended of all back end years where all the big movies came out in December. All the best picture nominees were from December. And so she was there kind of fight in the good fight for like, remember there were things that happened this year that were good before the end of the year. And there were a lot of people.

I remember some very specifically who were adamant that Diane Lane will not be nominated for Best Actress. It's too, you know, outside of the purview of the Oscar voters. Adrian Lyon is no longer, you know, highbrow, and even though she got the National Society of Film Critics and New York Film Critics' Best Actress List, even though she was nominated for the Golden Globe, there were people who were staked their reputation on the fact that Diane Lane's not going to get nominated for Unfaithful, and of course she did. Who would have been like six or seven the place in that race? Because we talked about that best actress lineup all the time.

Yes, Merrill. So the nominees are Nicole Kidman for The Hours, Julianne Moore for Far From Heaven, Renee Zellweger for Chicago, Diane Lane for Unfaithful, and Salma Hayek for Frida. And then Meryl for the Hours was nominated at the Globes in 2002. And I think most people sort of put her in that sixth place slot because there was a lot of like, well, she had adaptation that year. Is she going to get two nominations? Is she only going to get one? My things go awry and she gets none, like that kind of a thing. I am on the record as saying she's the best performance in the hours, and the hours is maybe my favorite performance of hers.

But I am me and insane. I agree with you that that is, she's the best performance in that movie. I also think because she was nominated for adaptation that year, that people sort of like, felt less bad about it, too, where they were just like, listen, like, we love Merrill. We think Merrill's really good in that movie. But, like, it's better that, like, Diane Lane is getting her first Oscar nomination, and Salma Hayek is getting her first Oscar nomination. I can't disagree with that. So, such is my magnanimousness. Magnanimity. Magnanimity. Magnanimity. C and Eminemini. Such is my C&Manyme. That I can say that Merriman. That I can say that

Merrill is the best performance in the hours, and it's my favorite performance of hers, and even I can say, let the wealth be spread. So there you go. So we can all be a little more generous, is what I can say. Follow my example. Well, the thing about that nomination for Diane Lane, yes, it was a spring performance, so there's a slight uphill climb there. Even with, you know, critics groups going to bat for her performance in this year. And I think they were very smart to do it because I think it would have been infinitely harder for her to get that nomination without National Society in New York. And, like, there's this thing of like, well, do critics groups matter all that much? And it's like, no, unless they do. Right, right. And, you know, they vote for Diane Lane, and yes, it matters. And I would think most people who are in critics groups sort of like to, like, don't want to, like, would say, oh, no, we don't matter.

They want to be self-effacing, and they want to be sort of, you know, um, uh, you know, whatever. But I think you're right. I think they do and they can.

And I think they know it. I think they know that there is a way that they can resurface a performance that needs to be resurfaced. Like it's, it's the attention economy. I say that all the time. It's like, oh, the golden globes. Like, why do we care about the gold?

and Globes, the Hollywood foreign press, aren't anyone, you know, there's not opinions that need to matter. And, like, all of that is true. And yet, it's all the attention economy. All it is, is reminding people who actually have a vote that this is somebody who you should consider. That's why, like, I mean, for as ridiculous as Melissa Leo was, consider kind of is the opposite word. All it means is you have a limited amount of attention that is that these awards voters have to wield. And you want to make sure that the worthiest people occupy that attention at the right time of year. And that is what critics groups are for. That is what for your consideration ads are for. That's what all of this is for. And ultimately, you want it to be in service of

movies and performances that are extraordinary. And Diane Lane in Unfaithful was extraordinary. So, um, we've talked a lot about the subway scene, where she basically goes through the gamut of emotions of after the first time that she's had sex with Olivier Martinez. She sort of has flashes. She sort of is flashing back to particular moments of their encounter, and it's just... There's disbelief, there's guilt, there's reverberations of horniness, there's, there's... yeah there's uh and it's incredible it's an incredible scene it's you know it's the type of thing that you feel like you can tell what it reads on the page and you think the moment sells itself but it really doesn't it requires an actor to really be vulnerable on screen in that way and

really tell through minute physical expression what is going through their head yeah and that is an impossible task and I hate to reduce a performance down to one scene because like her whole performance in that movie is fantastic but like that one scene is like a feat of magic yeah I think since then so under the Tuscan Sun is her direct follow-up this is the movie that is released the next year it's released you know a matter of months after the 2002 Oscars um and it's a wonderful movie, but it is also very much several orders of magnitude lighter than unfaithful, to put it mildly. And so I think sometimes you want to see, you, I'm sort of saying a universal you here,

the industry, the culture, wants to see actors and actresses capitalize on their Oscar nomination by sort of like moving more forward. forward into that direction, moving towards whatever, the next big, you know, sort of awards-worthy, dramatic, whatever. And Diane sort of went towards romantic comedies and sort of went back towards the roles. And again, you're, you only get the roles that you're offered. And there's only, you know, the roles available for women are, are not as plentiful, unfortunately. And certainly weren't in the 2000s. Well, after Under the Tuscan Sun, we pretty much revert back to where she was prior to

unfaithful in a walk on the moon, where it's, we as a culture, can all agree that Diane Lane deserves better than this. Must Love Dogs, Hollywood Land, Secretariat, Knights in Rodanthi, DC Universe. Right. And yet. There's one fun movie that, like, isn't an incredible movie, but there is, it is. It is almost like, you know, DVDs that have two movies on them. It should go with Under the Tuscan Sun, and that's Eleanor Coppola's Paris Can Wait.

I've never seen it. Is it really good? I wouldn't say really good, but it is fun, and she is very fun. Yeah. And I would say the final note of the movie is maybe worth seeing the movie for. Okay. I love that. She plays the wife of Liam Neeson's character in the Mark Felt movie. She plays Martha Kent in the Zach Snyder Superman slash Justice League movies. Is she the...

Who was she in Tully? She's in Tully? Says it. I don't think she's in Tully. Maybe she's just a voice? Hold on. That's a... a, that's a Wikipedia fuck up. Yeah, they're, I don't know who they do. Yeah, because it's not on her

IMDB. Yeah, that's weird. Wikipedia, figure your shit out. Um, she's in Serenity, as we have mentioned, she stands in front of an open window and, um, waits for Matthew McConaughey to, don't have sex with her. That's right. And listen, there are worse ways to live. Um, Diane, she was also in that Kevin Costner movie that came out during the pandemic where they, hated that movie. They go. and try to get their grandson back, right? That's the whole point of that movie? I've never seen it.

Yes. Yeah, you hated this. I hated it. I remember people thinking she was very good in it, though. I remember people like Leslie Manville going huge in that movie. I felt like that movie was beneath pretty much everyone else, even though I'm not a Kevin Costner fan. Yeah.

It's shockingly not Taylor Sheridan core. though it is very Taylor Sheridan coded. It's very gender essentialist. Okay. I hate it. I hated it, hated it. I'm not the audience for that movie, and that is fine. She's in an upcoming movie called Anniversary.

From the guy who... Yeah, this sounds fun. Yeah, the guy who directed that movie Corpus Christi that was nominated for the Oscar a few years ago in Foreign Language film. Jan Homassa. It's her and Kyle Chandler. They play the parents of a family who are kind of torn apart because of this movement sweeping through the country called The Change.

So this is sort of like a speculative future thriller cult family movie, a bunch of like really kind of hot up-and-coming younger actors. are in this, which makes me think that's going to get a lot of attention. So it's Madeline Brewer, Zoe Deutsch, Phoebe Dinavore from Bridgeton, and also from that Aldern-Rick movie that you didn't like that I still haven't seen. McKenna Grace, and then Daryl McCormick, and I'm into it. I'm into the idea. I don't know if this is going to be like a, it's a Lionsgate movie.

I don't know if it's going to be like a big awards movie, but like, I'm into it. Like, go off, Diane. I'm, you know, that seems fun. We're always rooting for her. Joe, can we talk about Diane Lane's Golden Globe nomination? Yeah, can we? Read off the nominees. She's nominated in Best Actress in a Musical or Comedy.

Truly back in the land of We Used to Be a Country. Diane Keaton obviously wins for something's got to give. I love that speech, by the way. The second place is either. Jamie Lee Curtis for Freaky Friday or Scarlett Johansson for Lost in Translation and then you also have Helen Mirren for Calendar Girls. A movie that we should do on this podcast at some point.

One billion percent. We've never, I've never seen it, so I would like an excuse to see it. People kind of forget how acclaimed Jamie Lee Curtis was for Freaky Friday, for that Freaky Friday remake. We're like, people were getting behind her for like an Oscar. push. She had to have been somewhere from six to ten. Well, that was a chaotic best actress year. Yes, 100%, which to me makes me think that she would have been even closer. Like, probably fourth through eighth or ninth, was all relatively close to each other. I'm getting

out a pen. So the nominees for Best Actress at the Oscars that year was Charlize and Monster, Kisha Castle Hughes in Whale Rider Naomi Watts in 21 grams Diane Keaton in Something's Got to Give and Samantha Morton in America Now if you look at the Golden Globes nominations No Keisha Castle Hughes No Naomi Watts

Which is kind of wild And no Samantha Morton Which makes sense because Samantha Morton really was like a comes like back comes roaring back into the race out of like left for dead so that means that all of these people were globe nominees but not oscar nominees so kidman in uh Nicole kidman in cold mountain umma thurman in kill bill volume one Evan rachel wood in 13 13 was like a big deal holly hunter gets the Oscar nomination for that um uh jamie lee curtis for freaky fry well it and drama also is Scarlet

Johansson in Girl with a Pearl Earring. It's also Scarlett Johansson in Lost in Translation, which has been, like, at this point bounced around between supporting or lead. Nobody knows where to vote for it, so ultimately, like, it gets lost in the lead BAFTA or the supporting BAFTA,

I forget. I can't remember. She's nominated in comedy lead at the Globes here. So Kate Blanchett's nominated for Veronica Garin. I don't think that got to close to Oscar, but, like, it's in the conversation. Diane Lane, nominated for Under the Tuskinson, as you said, and Helen Mirren for Calendar Girls. I think those two, I think, are also sort of below a line. So if we're talking

about the race for sixth place, I think you've got Kidman, Evan, Rachel Wood, Scarlet Johansson, Uma Thurman, in a real scrum for, like, who would you say was sixth place that year, right? I would probably say Scarlett Johansson. But, I mean, she's kind of splitting her own votes, too, so maybe not. I feel like there was

if, I mean, again, this is, you know, 20-year-old memories at this point. I do feel like there was a late surge for girl with a pearl earring for her. That, like, you know... That maybe did well with Oscar. How many nominations did it get, like, four? I'm going to pull that up. Yeah, pull that up.

But in general, it was a really kind of thrilling year because going into, oh, and the other thing was, you had Jennifer Connolly for House of Sand and Fogg, which was, for as much as that performance didn't really show up on a ton of precursors, Kingsley and Shori Agadashlu were consistently present throughout that Oscar season. So, like, you can't count out Jennifer Connolly, too. So I remember the Entertainment Weekly Oscars issue that year, I believe. the cover was Nicole Kidman, Jennifer Connolly, and Naomi Watts, like, going into, like, awards season. So that was the buzz. That's where the, like, you know, the publicity was going to. So, um, it's kind of fascinating. I think Kidman would have been close to number six, Scarjo close to number six. I think there's a real chance Evan Rachel Wood was close. She was SAC nominated, as was Patricia Clarkson for the station agent. Patricia Clarkson for the station agents and other ones. So literally, like, all of a sudden, this list is like 10 also Rans that, you know, could have conceivably, you know, in a, there's a world in which they could have gotten Oscar nominated.

Certainly, Kidman, Connolly, Uma, Clarkson, Evan Rachel Wood, Scarlett Johansson. Scarlet Johansson won the lead BAFTA for Lost in Translation. However, she's also nominated in that category for Girl with a Pearl E. Ring. Wild. Absolutely wild. And yet, there was never a doubt that Charlize Theron was winning for Monster, once that sort of... She was so far ahead. Yeah. And, you know, presumably Diane Keaton was the second place person because she's the only one who really shows up everywhere else.

Samantha Morton only showed up for critics' choice, maybe also a... indie spirit, and Connolly also showed up in Critics' Choice. But there's also a world in which, like, this is sometimes how it gets with, when there's one real, like, way out front-front-runner, that the other nominations can get kind of weird. And that is why I'm wondering this year, with supporting actress, with Devine Joy Randolph, so far ahead of everybody else, it seems like such a sure thing.

She's won everything by this point. There's more consensus, though, across the precursors than there would have been in 2003, though. That's fair. That is fair. I would love to see some type of surprise. And I wonder what that would, that, what form that would take. Maybe that Sandra Huller getting nominated for Zone of Interest. For Zone of Interest, too. I don't know.

It doesn't feel like anybody talks about that performance, so I'm not sure if it would be... Maybe. That. But so who are you? were you who were we thinking it's it's uh i think emily blunt is pretty well ensconced yes for that nomination that's up i think daniel brooks is coming on at the exact right time i think the timing for her is pretty perfect and i i'm fairly confident in that you've got the jody foster julienne more of it all which two lead performances essentially yes

two, essentially two co-lead performances by Oscar-winning actresses who are incredibly well-respected and I love both of those performances and I would like to see them nominated. And then how did it shake out at, was it just, was that no, Julianne wasn't nominated

at SAG, so who was nominated at SAG instead? It was Randolph, Blunt, Foster, Brooks, and... It wasn't Penelope Cruz. It was Penelope. Penelope Cruz, yes. Oh, okay.

Yeah, I wouldn't rule out Penelope Cruz getting nominated. I think maybe the left field would be America Ferreira, but I don't think that's happening at this point. If color purple was stronger, I could see Tarashi. Yep, yep. I think it's not. But it's not going to happen. It would be Rachel McAdams.

Rachel McAdams would be an incredible left field. That would be like the Laura Dern and Wild. Not even because Laura Dern had recently. Witherspoon as, as, you know, something to anchor to, whereas Rachel McAdams doesn't really... Rachel McAdams, I think, would only have L.A. critics. Yeah. Which is not in, like, yeah. And then I think I'm not ruling out Rosamond Pike for Saltburn for to come back into the race. Like, I'm really not. I think saltburn's sticking around, you know what I mean? And can I say the absolute 180 I have done on Penelope Cruz since

actually seeing the movie, where now I'm like, yes, she can get nominated. I think she's phenomenally good in that movie. Like, absolutely transcends... One of our greatest living actresses. The sort of limitations of being the sort of the grieving mother, the shunted wife. It helps that the movie is largely about that. More so than I think you probably expect the movie to. be when you show up to it that it is about the home life of these people that rather than

the you know room room room fast fast crash crash yeah there's plenty of that in there sure is yeah yeah another left field i would say is maybe viola davis for air air is gonna show air i think uh-huh i think barbie being deemed a Adapted by the Academy gave me the certainty that May December is not going to be blanked. And we'll show up an original screenplay, but I do also think it opens the possibility for air getting an original screenplay nomination.

And that would make me so happy because I never want to watch that movie again. And we wouldn't be able to do an episode of it. Do you want a hot take about the Barbie adapted screenplay thing? A thing that I am mostly fine with... We've talked about it several times. I don't know how hot this is going to be for me as the audience, but go for it. I don't think I've given you this take before.

This is mostly, I'm just, like, throwing bombs out there. Because mostly, I, like, I could see the Barbie thing from both angles, so whatever. I think that in terms of an ability to write an original story, I think Greta Gerwig was less constricted by the limitations of having to adapt Barbie than Bradley Cooper was constricted by the limitations of what. what the Bernstein family would allow for a maestro. I mean, that's probably true of a lot of, like, officially sanctioned biopics. But, you know, I mean, the IP in terms of original or adapted, I think, is an existential

question for Hollywood, and I think they did the absolute predictable thing by playing it conservatively. I think that's right. I just think, like, if you want a galaxy brain it, The line between what Greta Gerwig had to hew to in terms of Barbie as an established character and what anybody making a biopic has to hew to in terms of their subject being an established person is not as bold of a line as you think. Like, that's a, that's a line that is decently fit.

That's Lompson. All right. Back to the 2003 Golden Globes, I guess. Where are we going back to? We're going back to Under the Tuscan Sun's award run. I think it's fun whenever we can discuss the Crunchy Glad Media Awards. Oh, yes. So crunchy.

For Outstanding Film Wide Release, Under the Tuscan Sun is co-nominated with only one movie that beats it and that is bend it like Beckham. Can we think of any other wide release gay movies or movies with gay stuff? In 03? Let me pull up. Let me pull up my list of O3 movies that I've seen. Some of it is like, well, it's also, you think about, is, I hate to use a word, like, representationally. But, like, there's the finale of a Mighty Wind, which is bad. I was just about to say, which is transphobic and bad.

It's such a stain on that movie. It's such a bummer. It's not necessary. Just cut it off. Yeah. Um, all right, gay representation, queer representation in films from 03. There's just not much. There's not much.

Unless you're talking about Samwise Gamgee and Frodo. I mean, we can have that conversation. Listen, we're ready to have that conversation finally. It's 2024. We are finally ready to have that conversation. Surely some of those fish in finding Nemo are gay. I was about to say, surely, of all the 200 characters in Cold Mountain, just like on a numbers basis alone, you're going to find someone. Natalie Portman wields a shotgun in Cold Mountain. I think that's pretty queer-coded.

You know what was, okay, you know what was that year that should have? Is Camp. Not a wide release, though. Oh, right, wide release, right. Okay, that makes sense. Never mind. redacted, redacted, redacted. Also, not wide release was Party Monster that year.

Also, not wide release was Elephant, which had like a weird Boys in the Shower kind of a thing. Remember? Yeah, they were like, maybe we should kiss someone before we do this. Right. Oh, Elephant's so disturbing. It's a very good movie, but it's so disturbing. Yeah, I think you're probably In terms of wide release, yeah, you're probably very limited in that regard. So there we go. The bus full of gays and under the Tuscan Sun count.

Let's talk. Okay. Under the Tuscan Sun also got a nomination for contemporary film from the producer, from the art directors guild. Art directors guild, yes. Okay, first of all, speaking of homophobia, this category is not won by something's got to give or kill bill. It's won by Mystic River.

What in the world are you talking about? So let's talk, listen, I know a lot of people hate Mystic River. I am not one of those people. I'm sort of middle in the middle on Mystic River. There are things about it I think are really good, including some things that people don't like, like Laura Linney's performance, which I do think is fun. I've ever once in my life criticized Laura Linney. Never will.

Did you see, you did, because you sent it to me. Laura Linney presenting Mark Ruffalo with his National Border Review Award. Yes, yes. My heart and soul. So wonderful. So wonderful. But no, seriously, when your nominees are Mystic River, Kill Bill Volume 1, something's got to give Lost in Translation an Under the Tuscan Sun for contemporary production design.

Mystic River, I guess it's that, like, they were, they populated those sort of like, row houses with like having a wake in the in the main room or something but like no it's ridiculous that it doesn't go to kill bill volume one like they did a really great job of making selfie look awful like what are you talking what are we doing what are we doing here um but like okay so let's talk about the art direction and production design and under the tuscan sun because i think filming in italy takes care of a lot of stuff for you but this is a movie that pays a lot of detailed attention to the little things about this house, right? The nooks and crannies of it, I think any movie that is this much about interior

design is going to have a leg up in terms of like contemporary art direction, contemporary production design, and I think rightly so. It's a beautiful home. I love the way that it's sort of like decked out. There's also, you know, the other different, you know, places in Italy that she goes, the town square with the, you know, again, this is a lot of this is like, you found your location, you know, half the back, but. Well, but also, you know, the house has to go through a journey too. And all of that is production design, you know, whether it's props or, you know, Dietreus, the actual... Right, when they knock down the wall and it like, it all comes down, whatever, or, like, all the, like, little ins and outs of her bedroom, whoever found, whether they built it or they found it, that bed frame with the icon of the Virgin Mary in the headboard is, that's worth a nomination in and of itself.

Like, that's fantastic. Honey, that's going to get you a super host rating on Airbnb. And also, we'll be like on everybody who stays there, we'll Instagram that and be like, look at this shit that is in my bedroom, in my Airbnb in Tuscany. I mean. Also, we as dumb-dums can just assume, well, that's just what Italy looks like and they just showed up and put a camera. Sure, yeah, what do I know?

That's not necessarily, we don't necessarily. We don't know. know that but I do think that this is a good nomination because of the like I said journey that the home has to go through you know we love a journey I like talking about contemporary production design because it's something that Oscar does not do well in recognizing right and should because even a movie like her when it got that nomination people are like cool a contemporary design movie it's like well actually a It's kind of set in the future. When they were announcing those nominations, did they say, ladies and gentlemen, her? Nice and gentlemen, her.

Ladies and gentlemen, her. So, yeah. This year, the contemporary nominees, I think all feature movies that would deserve it, but probably won't be Oscar nominated. Three specifically, and for two movies, I don't like.

Read them off. name that what name them well what you did was ridiculous name them uh not have it well be quiet so name it this year's nominees bow is afraid john good nomination bow is afraid is a great nomination good nomination there's a lot going on there um do not like that movie but like would deserve a production design oscar nomination john wick chapter four haven't seen haven't seen any of those movies but i've seen the trailers, looks like some good design. Yes. Mission Impossible Dead Reckoning Part 1.

Love that train. Sure. Beautiful train. Salt burn. Nothing but design. Nothing but design. Yep. And the killer. David Richards under-discussed the killer. I like that. I like any nominations for the killer. That's really fun.

Yeah. You look at the winners in this category at the Art Direction. a guild throughout the years. Glass Onion won contemporary last year, no time to die, Defive Bloods, Parasite, Crazy Rich Asians, Logan, that kind of thing. I think in general, I rewatched the Sandy Powell Oscar speech for, acceptance speech for the Young Victoria recently. I already have two of these. I already have two of these. I'm starting to feel a little greedy. But the rest of that speech is she gives a shout out to the people who do costumes for movies that aren't about dead monarchs or glittering fantasy worlds. And essentially she shouts out the contemporary costume designers because it's a much harder job. And I think the same applies to contemporary art direction where it draws less attention to itself, it is working within probably more established boundaries,

you have to create a world that seems familiar rather than being able to create from the ground up, that kind of thing. So I think in both of those categories, we like to see contemporary recognized as much as possible in the Oscar nominations, which sort of combine All eras and all, they don't separate them out. So what do we think? I think obviously Barbie is far and away the art direction. Barbie are poor things. Barbie and poor things, I think, are going to be battling head-to-head for both production design and costume design.

Yep. Do you have any, like, hey, don't forget this? This is, you know, I would, something like Bo was afraid, where I would be like, yeah, like, you know, in a perfect world. For production design, Boas Afraid would serve. Yeah. Let me pull up my ballot. I haven't balloted that far down the line yet. I just sort of have my list of films.

I think. I haven't made a, well, I mean, I have voted and stuff. Lockheumera just, I mean, Lockheumera is like, it's, it's lucky that it's actually getting a real. release for how, you know... I hate that La Cimera has become this year's like, what year did it come out movie? Because that, like... It did get a qualifying release in 20203,

so it is a 20203. I know, but nobody saw it, unless you were at a festival, nobody saw it in 223. You know what I mean? It's just like, it's... All that to say, La Cimera would deserve a production design violation. Asteroid City would deserve both... Asteroid City 100% deserves both production.

design and costumes yes um i know that like there were people who didn't there were people who didn't love the wonka production design i am not one of them i really did love that production design and the costumes i loved all of that so i would uh endorse that i think if you want to like throw a costume uh design left fielder that um I don't even like this movie as much as other people do, but that fucking pussybow on Megan in the dress maybe deserves a costume design recognition all of its own, and I'm not entirely kidding. A movie I don't love that would deserve a costume design nomination, Priscilla. Priscilla, definitely, yes. One that I think that deserves both, that it's like, there's a lack of appreciation.

for contemporary stuff, that I think is also the cousin of a lack of appreciation for smaller scale things that nevertheless create a world that you feel very dropped into and believe. And for something like that, I would say, Eileen. I love that idea. I'm going to throw... I love Eileen. I love that. No, I love that. I love that idea.

I like Eileen a little bit less than you, but I still love that idea as a nomination. I'm going to throw one out to you that you're going to not like, and I'm just going to do it anyway. Production Design, Skinnamarink. Is that not just cinematography, though? Well, no, because it's also, like, objects.

Like, the fucking Fisher Price little thing. Like, I know that on some level, It's just like you opened a toy box and just sort of strewn some things over the floor. But I don't think it's that simple. And I think the way that that movie is able to utilize these creepy little like kids toys and knick-necks and whatever is very much direction. But I think you have to, like those objects fall under the purview of art direction. And I think that is very effective. Come up still.

Stop it. something What? Remember Skinnamarink a year ago when everyone was getting real into Skinnamarink? Here's the thing about Skinnerink. When I first saw it, I'd only seen really positive things. And I was like, I don't know. And then I saw so many negative things.

And I was like, well, it's better than that. Like it's... I mean, you cut 20 minutes out of the movie and it's a perfect... Watching that... movie by myself in my living room in the dark it's scary it's like it's unsettling it unsettles a bitch intentionally when i watched my because i i i got to see it a little bit at advance and i intentionally watched it at like 11 o'clock at night yeah pitch black with like just a christmas tree in the background yeah god perfect that's a perfect

christmas tree lighting is perfect for that movie yes absolutely um i would also throw in there in terms of like unlikely production design, I think the cabin in the blackening is very well appointed and there's a lot of... That's a cool call too. Yeah. The blackening for like the first

half hour of the movie, I was like, yes, absolutely. But it like... It has to plot its way out of it. It has to plot its way out of it. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway, any who... art direction production.

You dropped out so I couldn't fully hear you. But the thing that frustrated me about that movie was like, it's all about the game. And then at a certain point in the movie, like the game never gets referenced again. Right. Right.

Yeah, they have to sort of find their way out of that movie. I also think if you're talking about movies that will actually be nominated, I think the holdovers is a decent chance. just because you're talking about the 70s aesthetic in that movie is so heavily, you know, leaned on? See, that's the type of thing that I'm like, they don't recognize a certain scale of something, no matter how well it drops you into the world of the movie. And I don't think that that's super likely.

It would be cool. I mean, yeah, you only really get, with only five nominations, and you figure Barbie, poor things, Killers of the Flower Moon is incredibly likely. I think Oppenheimer is very likely Again, I bring up the fact that they built a town in the movie So there is, you know, there is text versus craft happening there And then you're down to, okay, well, now it's one more slot for everything and anything else. Those movies that are doing very well are going to gobble up a lot of nominations like that. I would, you know, you asked me recently, I forget what episode, and maybe it was a Patreon episode, where throw one nomination to literally anything that you want in the morning on Oscar nomination morning.

And I said Todd Haynes, and truly number two would be anything for Asteroid City, but maybe it's production designed for Asteroid City. I would love that. It's so, we've talked about it before, we don't need to belabor it. it's really bizarre that Wes Anderson isn't just like a perennial, like, check-it-off-the-box production design nominee. Like, for all the other things, and sometimes they don't like his stuff. And they usually actually bypasses stuff unless it's Grand Budapest Hotel, in which case they go all the fuck in. Anyway, anyway, anyway, back to... Anyway, I'm sure we're going to have a lot to say about this next week on our Class of 2023 episode.

One million percent, yes. Any last notes on Under the Tuscan sign? I think I'm bringing out my notebook, and we kind of addressed everything. Dan Bukotinsky is such a bitch. Those grapes do look like they taste purple. You know what? They just do, okay? And, oh, the quote that the first time she meets Lindsay Duncan's character,

when she's, before she has bought the villa, and she says, oh, it's a bad idea. And Lindsay Duncan just goes, bad idea. Don't she just love those? And then she leaves. And I'm just like, bad it. Yes. I love her. I love her. They're watching Georgia the Jungle, dubbed an Italian. I don't know what Georgia of the Jungle is in Italian. I wish I did. I should have looked that up.

It's a wonderful movie. I would like to be there for the... Okay, the montage where she just, like, becomes an Italian cook. Again, fantasy, but also like... True fantasy, my fantasy, because I am not a great cook. I can only do the very... They're in the middle of a... renovation. What the fuck is the functionality of that kitchen, first of all? And she pulls out like a Brandzino or something. She's like poaching pears. Like she's got

this like, good for you, girl. Good for you, girl. But like maybe start out with like one pasta dish in a salad. I don't know. Like these, all of a sudden, this is like a like 12 dishes are on the table. All that she has made on her own. And, you know, good for you girl. Also, it's been 20 years. I hope Pavel and whoever he is with right now are very happy together. Maybe it's the guy he was throwing flags with in the flag throwing competition, which was so captivating, I thought. I was one of those people throwing flower petals down into the town square. This is what I want to do when I go to Italy.

I just want to watch flag throwing ceremony. flag throwing, to the people on the gay tour, they are throwing flags. Yes. Let's just, that's a different, that's a different competition. You can throw me too. Yeah, listen, whatever. Justice for Diane Lane, period. Always.

Let's get her one more Oscar nomination. Book your stay at Diane Lane in-in-sweets with the code thobb 24. 10% off your first night's stay. what's the thing that they give you when you check in what's the sort of like you know how some give you like a chocolate chip cookie or whatever when you like check in or whatever like what does the diane lane in in sweets give you in in tuscany um does it give you a poached pair a tvd of muscle of dog and um a feather from lindsay duncan's hat yes yeah no that's on your pillow when you check in it's a feather from lindsay duncan's hat yes okay no that's on your pillow when you check in it's a feather from lindcuncan's hat And then I guess my last note, speaking of contemporary costume design, would be a worthy contemporary costume design nominee, if only for that tangerine dress at the end of the movie. The tangerine dress that matches her perfect shade of hair at that moment where like it really brings out the sort of auburn tones in her hair is incredible. Also, when she goes to Lindsay Duncan, she's like, I need a white dress.

And the next thing you see, she is in. the most crisply perfect, like, white dress, castor in a 60s Italian movie, you know, just on the costumes in this movie are really, really fantastic. You're absolutely right to shut those out. Given the girls what they want. Giving the girls exactly what they want, exactly. Joe, would you like to move on to the IMDB game? A, why not?

The IMDB game is something we do every week. We end our episodes with the IMDB game where we challenge each other with the name of an actor or actress, and we try and guess the top four titles that IMDB says that they are most known for. If any of those titles are television shows, or voice-only performances, or a non-acting credit, we will mention that up front. After two wrong guesses, then we'll get the remaining titles release years as a clue. And if that is not enough, it just becomes a free-for-all of hints.

What's happening today? Are you giving or are you guessing first? Well, we just recorded yesterday, and I think I guessed first, so I'll give first this time. Okay. Right? I don't remember what happened yesterday. What are you kidding me? Okay. Anyway, you mentioned that the late Audrey Wells directed two feature films in her career, one of which was Under the Tuscan Sun. The other was Gwynnevere, which was a movie that starred, the great Canadian legend, Sarah Polly. We have never done an IMDB game on Sarah Polly. Why don't you try? Okay, but this might be difficult because are they all acting roles in there for? They are. They are. Wow, not a single directorial effort in her known for? What the fuck are we doing here?

I know. Go. Go, correct. Her tremendous performance in that great film. Go. I love that so much. Adventures of Baron Moncowson? No, not Adventures of Baron.

No, considering what happened to her on the set of that movie, good. Yeah. Go read her memoirs. Ooh, okay, so she doesn't really act much now, so I'm guessing these are all going to be when she is younger. I'm guessing Gwynnevere is not on there. So what am I going to guess is on there? What was the horror movie she was in?

It's not like a West Craven horror movie, but there is like a popular horror. No, no, no, sweet hereafter. Sweet her after. Atta McGoyans, the sweet her after. She's so good in that. I haven't seen that in a long time. I should watch that.

That's there. The, um... Is she in a movie with Michelle Williams? No, that's not what I'm thinking of. Um, oh, this is going to actually be hard, because a lot of her movies that I'm thinking of are, like, very small indies that are unlikely to show up on an IMDB game. But she is, I think, first build in Guinevere, so I'll just say Gwynavir. Not Gwynnevier, so that's two strikes. So your remaining movies are in 2003 and 2004.

Oh, okay. So 2003, the year we're talking about would have... have been. Wow, but like... No, 2004, she's not directing yet. Is the 2003 an Oscar nominee? No, neither of these are Oscar nominees. I will say you're on the right track for both of them in, in oddly idiosyncratic ways.

So the things that you were mentioning before are not entirely. Is the Hellheartly no such thing there? No, not no such thing. I know what you're talking about, but no. One of them is a horror movie. One of them is not a Michelle Williams movie, but I think you are mixing up the title of a Michelle Williams movie with the title of this. Me Without You.

Me Without You is the Michelle Williams movie. That's her and Anna Friel. So it sounds like that. Me after you? Nope. You after me? Nope. Me is in there.

Yes. this is i think she's like contemplating suicide or something or she's like ill so it's like the world without me or something you're you're two two words away after me my life without me is what you're thinking it's the uh isabel quachet movie with her and scott speedman and mark ruffalo where she's got a terminal movie that i cannot remember but it is like it is this director's best movie she's not in splice is it she is

but it's not splice splice is later um oh it's dawn it's dawn of the dead it's dawn of the dead no don of the dead is good that's a real good movie yeah but a Zach Snyder showing up on Sarah Polly's known for when none of her directed movies are on her known for

she's elite she's first build in that movie like she rocks in that movie she's so good She does. She does. That is a good movie, but... Ooh. All right. What's she got for me? All right. So, obviously, we talked about the Grace Anatomy of it all because of the two Grace Anatomy stars in this movie. So who else could I pull for you? But McDreamy himself, Patrick Dempsey, there is one television. Grace Anatomy. Correct. Okay. Made of Honor.

Incorrect No Oh my God His cashing in on Gray's Anatomy success At the movie's motion picture Made of Honor Sweet Home Alabama

Also incorrect No Wow Okay Your years are 1987 2007 and 2011 Okay

What the hell is the title of that 80s movie It's like some Is it some kind of wonderful No Is it no it's um i don't think he's in that one no it's but it's it's is this the one with like eric stolt is in this movie uh i don't know if eric stoltz is in this one he is the lead mary stewart masterson am i thinking of a totally different movie i'm probably thinking of a very popular

song from maybe the most popular music group of all time can't buy me love can't buy me love there you go oh seven who's wait click into who can't buy me love and see who else is in that movie is that All right, can't buy me love. We got Courtney Gaines, Seth Green, Amanda Peterson. None of the people you were mentioned. Okay, all right, okay. So that was sort of a John Hughes wannabe, a John Hughes knockoff, Can't Buy Me Love.

All right. What are my other years, 07 and what? 2011. All right, Patrick. Also, speaking of Ferrari and Lerner, looking ridiculous in Ferrari. That is true. Blonde Dempsey.

Yeah. Um, all right. O.7. Who's log was it? It, it, that it for Ferrari was, and Patrick Dempsey as maestro. I didn't see that, but that's fantastic. Um, I forget who I follow that posted that, but it made me laugh. 2007, Patrick Dempsey.

Is it like a rom-com? Oh, 7, you could classify this as a rom-com. Okay. It's probably one of the better rom-coms we've had since Under the Tuscan Sun, but I think it would be categorized as something else. Oh, like, fantasy? Like, yes. Fantasy rom-com, fantasy romance.

Oh. No. Oh, it's enchanted. It's enchanted. Of course. Uh, 2011. 2011, this is a franchise that I bet you don't know he is in because I, too, did not know he was in. Is it a transformer?

It is a transformer. Okay, let's see if I can get the subtitle. Transformers Dark of the Moon. Correct. Dark of the. Ah, all right. There we go. Yeah.

All right. That's the third? Well, the first one was an over. Oh, 7. So, yeah, probably. 07,09, 2011. That's probably the progression of it. Who cares about those? Who cares indeed? All right. Well done. Good job. Us. That is our episode. If you want more, this had Oscar Buzz. You can check out the Tumblr on this had oscarbuzz.com.

You could also follow us on Twitter at had underscore Oscar underscore buzz. Also on Instagram at this had Oscar buzz. And, of course, on Patreon with our Patreon on turbulent brilliance at patreon.com slash this hat. Oscar Buzz. Joe. Yes. Where can listeners find you? Letterboxed Blue Sky. I'm at Joe Reed. Read is spelled R-E-I-D. I am on Twitter and Letterbox at Christi-File. That's F-E-I-L. We would like to thank Kyle Cummings for his fantastic artwork, Dave Gonzalez, and Gavin

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