This Had Oscar Buzz - 278 – Annette

Episode Date: March 4, 2024

Coming out of the COVID-led doldrums of 2020, the Cannes Film Festival loomed large as a “movies are back!!” starting gate for global cinema. Its opening film, Annette, was a long-in-development rock opera with music by cult fave Sparks and directed by visionary auteur Leos Carax, returning to the Croisette with his first film in nearly … Continue reading "278 – Annette"

Oh, oh, wrong house. No, the right house. We want to talk to Marilyn Hack, Millen Hack and French. I'm from Canada water. Dick Poop One, two, three, four. So may we start, may we start, maybe not start, maybe, maybe not so we start, so maybe not so maybe not.

There she is. This is my baby. Hello and welcome to the This Had Oscar Buzz podcast, the only podcast that is what happens when you're busy making other plans. Every week on This Had Oscar Buzz, we'll be talking about a different movie that once upon the time had lofty Academy Award aspirations, but for some reason or another, it all went wrong. The Oscar hopes died, and we are here to perform the autopsy. I'm your host, Joe Reed. I'm here, as always, with my composer friend, Chris File. Chris. I'm a conductor. Conductor friend. That's what he says.

Conductor friend. Thank you. I'm a conductor. Simon Helberg. On my best supporting actor list for 2021. Not a bad call. He's so good in this. He's... All right. We're going to talk about this probably many times, but like I think

just baseline for Annette. The fact that none of the principal characters are played by people who can sing all that well is charming, right? It's sort of like, it sort of goes with the like surreality of the vibe, right? Sure. Well, and, uh, okay, so principal characters, I think you are unfairly tarnishing the name of the one and only baby Annette. Well, no, that's true. I said characters and you're right. Global singing sensation. Global singing

sensation. I've always said that the double bill of Baby Annette and Celeste from Vox would be just an international touring sensation. Like, my God. See, Baby Annette did have a guest appearance by Celeste in that Super Bowl halftime show, but it never gets to go, like, I know. It's in the director's cut. Celeste was supposed to be there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What city is that's supposed to be in? This is the thing. I think they do actually say Super Bowl. They do. And I'm like, this looks like a European city. Yeah, it absolutely looks like a European city. I couldn't quite tell I'm bad at like, friends of mine I know, more

well-traveled friends than me, are very good at recognizing city skylines. And I wish I was better at that. I'm good at the easy ones, but like, that's a fun thing to be good at. No, I'm trying to think of, like, what other things in Baby Annette's sort of short but spectacular career? Obviously, Baby Annette would have played the Grammy, would have performed at the Grammy Awards a few times. Who would she have collabed with? I'm trying to think of, like, is this, like, Baby Annette featuring, like, Chance the Rapper? Like, who are, like... I think Baby Annette featuring Rihanna, who was originally supposed to be in this movie, would have been amazing.

Right, right, right. But, like, are they going to, like, stretch genres? It's going to be, like, Baby Annette and, like, Buena Vista Social Club. Do you know what I mean? Like, really, like, you know how the Grammys do. You know what you're saying? You know what I mean? Baby Annette and Tracy Chapman with a very stirring duet. Like, I could see it. Baby Annette doing the in-memorium on the Oscars. Baby Annette charging the stage when Sean Colvin wins for Sunny came home and, uh, and says Baby Annette is for the children. Actually, Wu-Tang is for the children was actually about Baby Annette. That's what old Dirty Bass. was saying. Oh, right, right, right. Just what? Gay Twitter would have been so obnoxious in a fun way for Baby Annette. Like, I feel like only gay, well, not true. No, Baby Annette would have crossed all sorts of borders.

Maybe not, maybe not monoculture, gay Twitter, but like all the people I know who make Baby Annette chokes are gay. Most. Well, right. Yeah. Absolutely. But like... Oh, but you're saying in the real world. In the real world I'm talking about. Like the actual, the world where Baby Annette is a legitimate pop star where like not only is baby Annette, like, not only did like your mom buy a Baby Annette CD to play in her CD player that she still uses. But like, um, baby, like people on Twitter are like, when are the visuals dropping Baby Annette? Like that kind of

a thing. Mother is mothering. Oh God. Baby Annette would absolutely have a mother is mothering fan in every audience, in every crowd. Absolutely, there would be Stan Wars. The Baby Annette Stans would ferociously hate the Taylor Swifties. Like, absolutely. I don't know why I called them the Taylor Swifties, as if they're like dungarees or some outdated term. Or some type of soft serve. Honestly, Taylor Swift should have a chain of ice cream trucks that are called the Taylor

Swifties. They're Taylor Swifties, and they all have to wear, like, uniforms and stuff. I would see, that would make her much more popular. I'm sure there's some lyric-based ice cream joke that I could make if I was aware for that. Probably. It is very, okay, we are not done with Baby Annette jokes throughout this episode, but like, it is so wonderful and terrific that this movie exists, yes, but also existed it at the exact time we needed it. Because this movie came out in 2021, we had all been locked inside and did not have a level of absurdity and, like, U.S. Dramatic Jury Competition Prize for Uncompromising Vision, see our superlatives episode over on Patreon. Oh, that this movie had.

Baby Annette would have cleaned up at our superlatives, like one million percent. Oh, oh, we might need to retroactively honor this queen. because we were coming out of the, like, I think people were still going back, getting back to the movies, and like, yes, this was a streaming movie, but my first experience with this movie was in a theater. Oh, God, and jealous. And even so, like, not to dog on any of the things we did get during, you know, 2020, but, like, we didn't really have these type of, of risk-taking, you know, clear visionary, spectacle type of movies for what felt like a long time. And, like, we were, you know, we don't talk a lot about how, like, we came off of a really great movie here and then immediately got thrust into COVID. So it's like, we were kind of starving.

And for the things about this movie that are such wild creative leaps and not all of them work. And this movie clearly doesn't matter if all of it works. This movie still feels like it's getting away with something or it's like healing a certain type of wound to watch it now, which is maybe like the fourth or fifth time I've seen this movie. I definitely, I think proximity to... the headspace that I was in coming out of COVID, I think, helps this movie. I think watching it again this time, I was maybe a little bit less enchanted with it, while still being like, oh, this is clearly an incredible artistic swing. I think it dragged a little bit for me in part.

It's a very long movie for what it is, yeah. Yeah, it's the, the fact that Baby Annette doesn't show up for the first half of the movie is, you know, a bit of a problem. I, again, I still really, really liked this movie. There's kind of like three day numas after the second hour mark of this movie. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I will say, as somebody who is not entirely familiar with Sparks, the band who provides the songwriting and the music for... Nor was I when I saw this movie. And this was also the same year that the Sparks Brothers documentary came out, which did you see?

I never saw it. I didn't. Okay. I didn't. But I think, so I can't really speak to them as a band or sort of their like historical output. The flavor of song writing in this movie where it's just sort of two lines repeated and infinitum has its hits and misses. I'll just say. Well, I mean, it's also a sung-through musical.

or nearly sung through musical with people you know it's it's not intended to be sung well you know well right that's sort of what that's sort of what i was getting at the beginning too um but i also feel like they're like you know play the first 10 minutes of this movie for me once and i'll have so may we start in my head for the next month as is currently happening right now um and obviously like we love each other so much is also it's so sing-songy it's so earwormy um but then you just like if you're like chant that leads up to baby annette's super bowl perform in right um but and i also think there are some like really interesting kind of like book numbers like all of his stand-up the performances the way that like he interacts with the audience um but wait what was they going to say

the um nope i think i lost it we'll figure it out i need to see a jimmy awards contestant performing some of his stand-up numbers musical theater people hate this movie do they really as far as i know they're like what is this this is oh i remember seeing some like no that's such a bummer semi-viral where they're like this movie's making fun of us and it's like not everything's about you it really isn't making fun of musical theater people i don't think i don't

genuinely don't think it is. I mean, it's more opera than musical theater. Yeah. Which is, I guess, that is honestly, it's the, it's the closest thing I can compare it to, even though it's much better. And like, it's not horror, but like, the only other movie I've seen that I feel like is operating in the same general theater of this is Repro the Genetic Opera. Like, that has that same sort of, like, fully existing outside of reality inside this sort of like hermetically sealed musical environment. It's entire, I mean, I wouldn't go as far to say, like, it has its own cinematic language,

but, like, it's one rulebook for what this is going to be and what it's supposed to be. Right. And this, I mean, there are, there are. Which also feels very holy motors, too, right? Like, that's obviously a. Leo Carricks, which we should have maybe said his name before. Well, I'm going to, I'm going to give. I'm going to quiz. I don't, I know nothing about Leo's Karex except for Holy Motors. It's the only movie of his I've ever seen. How do you feel about Holy Motors? It's a very good question. At the time. It's a loaded question. At the time, I really didn't care for it. And I really felt like the fact that the critical establishment seems to be really sort of like leaning on it as sort of a

Well, this is the kind of thing that should be winning awards this season, but isn't. I thought was a little snooty, and I kind of resented it. My feelings on it have definitely mellowed over the years, although I haven't seen it again. I think I would like to. I don't know if I would... I think you would definitely be warmer to it, especially... Warmer. After seeing Annette.

I mean, Annette is maybe a decent... entry point for Leo's Carrick's. And I'd like to see his older movies, too. A lot of his work hasn't been, like, Pola X, which is the movie that has, like, a lot of sex in it, hasn't been super available. So, like, that's how I've never seen that movie. But, like, I'd like to see Movay Song and... I need to catch up to that. Lover's on the Bridge.

Lover's on the Bridge. Thank you. Lover's on the Bridge is nuts. it's like they're like it's julia pinosh jet skiing in the sen there's this whole like sequence with fireworks going off that is genuinely one of the wildest i don't know how they shot that yeah uh one of the wildest sequences i've ever seen it is a very uh there's there's it that movie is a lot but i would highly recommend people see it just for the absolute audacity and spectacle of it. Holy Motors, I love so much. I think the things that don't really work about Annette do really work in Holy Motors. And Holy Motors maybe has the benefit of having this very episodic structure that can get tiresome in other movies, but, like, there's so many different pieces go, like, all of the

different portions of Holy Motors are so different from. each other that I think it's interesting. And that Denny Levant performance is just like, oh my God, incredible. That's what I remember from when Holy Motors came out and people saying, well, this is the type of thing we should be talking about and awarding. I remember that more so for Denny Levant's performance, because didn't he win, like, maybe he won, like, National Society? He won, and he was, like, runner up for a lot of other things, too.

You know what I mean? And, like, he was, he was very much in the, in the mix for that. Also, Kylie Minogue in that movie. And Kylie Minogue. And is very good in that movie, singing. That's a movie that is more quasi-musical than musical, rather than, like, the full-on musical that Annette is. And not narrative, really.

It's, you know. Sure. Sure. It's fragments of, episodic, and, yeah. Stung together with, like, overarching narrative intent, but there's not really... I struggle with movies where you're like, what's that movie about? And you're like, well, not really anything.

It's not movie making. It's about creation of art and sure. Sure. I'm sure if you ask Leo's Carrex, what is Holy Motors about? He would answer with a question. Sounds like a great conversation to have. Was it like last year the videos were going around of him and Jennifer Lawrence meeting And apparently he's going to work with Jennifer Lawrence at some point in the future

Oh that's fun Jennifer Lawrence who's just like trying to rack up all of these Has Jennifer Lawrence been on a can jury yet? She hasn't I think she'd be a good choice for a can jury myself I mean, she does have, like, good taste in directors, even if the movies that she wants to make with them don't. Like, this isn't shade against Jessica Chastain, but, like, if Jessica Chastain can be on a can jury, then, like, put Jennifer Lawrence on a camera. I can't talk about Jessica Chastain until we record the Molly's game.

Okay, okay. But while we're speaking of Cannes, though, so this won the director prize at Cannes. Yes. This is a really good can line. for a competition alone. Well, okay, so this, I feel like we're going to talk way too much about COVID in this episode, but like part of what I was saying about just this movie felt so true about that can because when that can happen and it happened later than normal, it normally happens in May,

this one was in July. Yeah. And it just felt like a certain part of movies. were back. And you can tell that that was true of the jury because the jury gave away a ton of ties because they just want to give away to award as many movies as they reasonably slash unreasonably could. Let's really dig into it after the plot description. I was going to say because there's so much to talk about it. It's worth digging into it's a, it's like I said, just from just one little scan of the lineup, you're just like, holy shit, this is a really incredible

Who was the president of that jury? Spike Lee, right? Spike. Spike. Fantastic. All right. We'll talk about it when we get there. Okay. Before we do, why don't you let our listeners in on why they should, if they are not already, joined up with our Patreon. Listeners, you should sign up for our Patreon. We're calling it this had Oscar Buzz turbulent brilliance.

For $5 a month, you're going to get at least two bonus episodes. of which we call exceptions. Those arrive on the first of the month. These are movies that fit this had Oscar buzz rubric, but managed to get a few nominations or one or two. Like I said, we're going to be talking about Jessica Justine and Molly's game. I'm normally good when episodes come up, but knowing where we are in the timeline, but if it's not there, it's coming there soon. I've also done movies like The Mirror Has Two Faces, Pleasantville, Nine, the Lovely Bones. Lovely Bones was our first listener's chosen exception, and Molly's game is the next. Second episode is going to be the 15th of the month. We call those excursions. These are deep dives into this head Oscar buzz ephemera, things we obsess about. We just did one of our most recent excursions. We did what we called our superlatives. It was like a little This Head Oscar Buzz mini award show of all of the weird categories that happened throughout the season that are.

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slash this had Oscar buzz. Everything that Chris said, I say, yes indeed. Indeed it is. All of that he said and more. All right. This episode, we're talking about the 2021 film Annette.

It was directed by Lios Karex. It was written by Lios Karex with Ron Miel and Russell Mile, Mile, male, from the band Sparks. This is how little I know about Sparks. And Sparks fans, you are free to yell at me. I am ignorant on this subject. The film starred, Mr. Adam Driver, Ms. Marion Cotillard, Mr. Simon Helberg, and introducing Baby Annette as Annette. premiered on December. Well, no, that is the wrong premiere date.

That is still the Spanglish premiere date that I still have that. What is the actual Annette premiere date? It opened the Cannes Film Festival in competition. Thank you. And then... On July 6th, 2021. Yes. And had a theatrical run in early August before showing up on Amazon Prime.

August 20th. August 20th, 2021. A day before my birthday, really, that was all for me. I remember, I don't think I saw Annette actually until much later. I remember watching it in like December, like around the holidays, and

had a good-ass time with that. So it was fun for me. Chris, a 60-second plot description for Annette is going to be one of those that could be 10 seconds or 210 seconds. And I am very interested to see what you make of it. I'm going to pull out my stopwatch and we will record. Not record. I don't know why I said that. I will time you. We're already recording. I will time you. All right. Are you ready to give a 60 second plot description of Annette? So may we start?

So may we start and go. All right. So Henry McKenry is a shock jock in the I don't No. Not really Andrew Dice Clay. He more so jokes about, like, killing people. And he falls in love with an opera singer named Anne. They have this very, like, tabloid obsessed relationship because how could they be any more different? Anyway, they end up getting pregnant and married and la, la, la, la, living in love. But also, Anne is afraid of him. And she has a nightmare about how all of these women come out about Henry's abuse. But it's a nightmare, so it's not real. We don't really No, but he is also tempestuous and has like a violent streak, even though he doesn't commit actual violence. And they have Baby Annette. She is a puppet. It's a welcome to the world anette. And they're on a boat one time.

And suddenly it gets like, it's very tempestuous. And he demands that Anne dances with him and she gets thrown overboard. But he doesn't murder her. But he is responsible for her death. Anyway, she basically haunts them as a ghost. throughout. And then Henry McHenry decides, oh, baby Annette has the same voice as Anne, so we're going to

make a global sensation out of her. And meanwhile, he gets close to her former conductor. He ends up killing him because he's framing him for Anne's murder. And then basically, Annette is a global sensation at this point. And at the Super Bowl, she's like,

Dad kills people. And he ends up going to jail, and they struggle to reconcile their relationship later. 33 seconds over. I mean, that's not a lot of... Marion Cotillard was dead at the 10-second warning, or was alive still at the 10-second warning,

so I knew you were in trouble. The reason he kills Simon Helberg, though, is that Simon Helberg says, I am probably, and that's actual father, right? Oh, right. Well, do you believe that? I don't believe that. I think...

I think he's just playing to his ego. I think Henry... Wait, who's playing to who? his ego. The conductor is playing to Henry's ego. No, no, because I think he's saying, because Henry's like, you think you're the father of the kidney. He's like, yeah, I actually do think I'm her father.

And because he and Anne had that, like, relationship or whatever. And that's why he's never really bought that. Or he could be. Buy it or not, but I think that's what Henry says. Henry's like, I have to get rid of you or else you'll take a net away from me. And as he's singing all of his thoughts, I will tell you one of the things that this movie does so well that I appreciate so much because I think more movies should do this is this movie takes advantage of Adam Driver's size in probably the best of any movie that's ever done before. Adam Driver, like, this is not a puerile or purian observation. I'm just, I'm stating facts.

Adam Driver's body is fascinating and incredible to look at. Like, his features are just so large, right? He's just a large human being. He has a big sort of barrel chest. He's very tall. He's got, like, his big arms, big hands. big hands, big face, big legs, like every, you know what I mean? It's just like, he's just an imposing presence of a man.

And he spends most of this movie with very long hair. Huge, like, very, like, this, like, Samson, main of hair that he also uses. And his stage presence is, when he's a comedian, is this sort of, like, waxing and waning between, like, almost, like, near, like, you almost can't hear him. He's, like, you know, muttering and whispering or whatever. And then it's this, like, huge ball of energy and he's, you know, well, we'll talk about him. Making off color jokes, like he fakes a shooting at one of his shows because he's so controversial. But, like, when he's with Anne, like, their size disparity is so huge, where he's just so much bigger than her. In the sex scenes, it emphasizes how big he is, like, how muscular and how, like, how muscular.

and how big he is, which is what then plays into this sort of thing. Like, is he a threatening person? Is he an abusive person? Or is he just like intense and big, which those two things combined together can be threatening? When he's dancing with her on that boat, like, he's definitely, he's in the wrong in that she keeps trying to like get away from him and go inside because it's dangerous. And he is forcing her to stay out there and dance with him. did he kill her? No, but like, did he not kill her?

No. Right. Right. Right. Exactly. And I think it's just like, especially the first half of this movie. And I just feel like too few, not too few, but like not every movie reckons with this aspect of Adam Driver. Because not every role requires it, you know what I mean?

But like, I, there are so few people who look like this guy. So I'm like, well, it's great that this movie knows that and is like, we're going to use it to our absolute advantage. In this, Star Wars doesn't really use it. Like, if this opera can't use his body for this, like, it's an operatic body, right? It is just a incredibly, like, I don't know, he has a physical cacophony. Like, that is what he looks like. the movie also, like, invites that curiosity about his body. I mean, when Henry McHenry is performing, you know, he's just in a robe and shorts, you know, so it's like, he's very sweaty.

Oh, yeah. Like, there are multiple sex scenes in the movie. And the sex scenes are filmed in a way that aren't like, what's being focused isn't like the passion that they have. It's like just literally their bodies, and it's the way that their bodies kind of contrast and compare to each other. I just think it's really smart. I think it's really, I think it's visual storytelling in a really, really smart way. Well, and it's interesting that, you know, Adam Driver kind of in this movie took up the mantle of Denny Levant, who's such a, like, if nothing else, a physical performer who has a very unique physicality to all. all of movies. And Adam Driver is giving such a physical performance. Yes. And not just like he's

tumbling around and he's, you know, getting caught up in his like microphone during his performances, but also like the physicality of his voice, his, you know, stance. It's, you know, at this point, we're used to Adam Driver for things like marriage story or silence, you know. Yeah. And not something that requires so much of him physically. I suppose silence requires a lot of him physically because he's withering away on the screen. Yeah. But yeah, it's him giving a whole other level of himself as a performer that, like, you can see why every filmmaker and the best filmmakers in the world at that want to work with him.

Absolutely. Somebody shut that baby up. We've got to talk about the Vulture Movie Fantasy League. Somebody stopped Adam Driver from murdering people. Once again, Baby Annette should have hosted both the SAG Awards and the Independent Spirit Awards this past weekend. You know how there's like now, we've gotten to the point online that there's like parody pop Crave account? Yes.

Like, poo crave? Like, that is absolutely a poo crave tweet of, like, Baby Annette will host the Independent Spirit Award. Screen Actors Guild Awards streamed on Netflix for the second straight year. How do you think they're doing? They have the, they're exploring

the space, I feel like, with the fact that they are, people can curse, they don't have to be particularly beholden to... In the Barbara montage. Excellent single use of fuck. It's the scene from Mirror Has Two Faces, of course. Was it Jeremy Allen White? One of them, somebody made the remark of like, oh, they're not playing me off.

Like, I have so much time to make the speech, which I thought was like kind of amazing. And so I liked that. I didn't mind the Tan France commercial break interview segments. I thought they were actually pretty good. It's just, it feels like, okay, why, they need to do a better job of being like, here's why we're doing this or like have a reason for those moments existing. I wouldn't want that to happen on the Oscars. I think the Oscars is a little too prestigious to do like sideline reporter crap. But they need it functionally because all of the attendees like they got to pee.

You know, they got to be. Oh, that's right. You need to have breaks. You need to figure out what to do with your breaks. I think if it's the, I'm always. preparing for the day that Netflix takes over the Oscars. Because they do feel like if it's not Netflix, it will be some streaming entity or another. And when they do, I, there are things that you can do in the Oscars. You can show clips of old stuff. You can show, like, clip packages of this

year's movies. Like, that's where you can put your montages. Like, use that for, you know, and I guess, like, the audience also needs their commercial, their P breaks. So, um, whatever, figure it out. But Like, I, in general, enjoyed the experience of, you know, watching that SAG Awards. I thought it was fun. I thought it was a good time. The Barbara Lifetime Achievement Award or Life Achievement Award? I don't understand. SAG Awards, it's Life Achievement Award, which I think is very funny because it's like,

you're only not saying Lifetime Achievement Award to be different than the ones who do say that. But it's like Life Achievement Award. The lifetime is not over. But Barbara, going up there to be the one hype person for driving Madeline and not even calling it by its American title, never change. I thought it was quite fun. The winners were sort of moved in a couple different directions. I think best actress came back a little bit closer. Now it does feel like a strictly to, you know, it's.

It's Lily and Emma, neck and neck, I feel like, going into Oscar night. I do feel like Lily Gladstone does have a bit of the edge, particularly because SAG winners, much, much more so than SAG nominees, correlate with Oscar winners. Very, very, very well. I think just in terms of, like, I think it's when they're voting. I think it's, you know, it's that kind of momentum. The fact that the SAG Awards happen within the Oscar voting window, I think, helps in that regard. And on the other side of that,

Killian Murphy winning, on the heels of winning BAFTA, does feel like everybody, I think, has sort of agreed to cede that category to Killian, which, as I sort of noted... You're the more optimist among the two, more of an optimist among the two of us, that you still think Paul Giamatti has a real shot. I think he has a shot. I don't think it's a likely shot, but I think he has a shot. I can still see it happening. I don't think it's a fate accompli. But also, like, as I mentioned on Twitter, and I think I mentioned this on this podcast, too, last week was, I just got to get my head right about this and just sort

of like, shake off the dust and be like, Killian Murphy, this actor who you have loved since 28 days later, like, you know, it's going to win an Oscar. That's like so fucking cool. He's going to get handed an Oscar by his Sunshine co-star. Or no, it's not because they're doing the five previous winners so he's not going to get that would have been that's the only downside of this is that is that michel yo will now not hand killion murphy and oscar that's a little bit of a bummer so this is the first time we're speaking on this we are obviously very pro having previous winners hand out the acting nominees and do like the full presentation i used to refer to it as the final five silons but now that is such a dusty reference that like people don't really

get it. That is a very 2008 reference, but not a 2024 reference. God, it's been so long since that happened the last time. It's been 15 years. Good Christ. We're also old. And we can, of course, I'll start speculating who is going to be presenting to who as they have all of these presenter announcements that are happening. The only one

that currently you could have a full lineup guest is supporting actress. Hit me with it. I hope that there are some surprises, though. I hope that some of these are not all people who have been announced. I do, too. I like the guessing game more than I like knowing about it ahead of time. I like playing fantasy presenter with all of this stuff. I like the idea that it is my fervent hope that they get Ellen Burstyn to talk to Lily Gladstone,

because, of course, Ellen Burstyn is the only other... actress to win an Oscar for a Martin Scorsese movie, and I think that would be a nice little bit of continuity and torch passing right there. What other ones did I think? I think everybody... I know we got actors on actors this year, but Julian for... That's the thing. I don't like the idea of the Oscars sort of taking their cues from actors on actors.

Do you know what I mean? I get that, but you know, you want a mix in these things. You want a mix of former co-star. You want a mix of people who feel like they're passing a torch like a Shirley McLean to Anne Hathaway. You want a level of unexpected. You also want a level of like, so where's this parallel coming? Sure, sure.

Goldie Hawn and Taraji P. Henson kind of a thing, right? Yeah. That makes more sense than who did Sophia Loren present for? Merrill Streep. She had the hand on the hip. Right. Street. Yeah.

Yeah. We talked about offline a bit how my, I learned that Jamie Lee Curtis and Jody Foster are real-life besties, so it does feel very likely that that's going to be a connection. Among the actors, I'm trying to think of like who I would like in terms of co-star-wise to present to the actors. You've got... hold on

like who would we want to present to like geoffrey right what's that what's the connection there angels in america baby oh fuck that's so good oh my god yeah that has to be oh i would love that um and all right who for uh Coleman domingo of who of what you want to see uh what

winners you want to see present it to this year's nominees. Yeah, yeah, get back to us. We could talk about this all day. Who do we want to offload Fraser to? Oh, that's right. He has to be there because he won last year. Yeah, that's, has he co-starred with any of them significantly? I don't think so.

It would help if DiCaprio was nominated because then you could just have him, they could do their Killers of the Flower Moon connection or whatever. Yeah. Fraser can just scream through the whole presentation. I love how we, like, absolutely viciously turned on Brendan Fraser in the course of last year. Like, I don't feel bad about it. I still love him in the things that I love him in, but. Yep.

I was on the Blankies, and we did our requisite, like, we found our way down a whale cul-de-sac once again, and we were all just, like, the three of us just spitting hatred about the... Don't spoil it for the Garry's yet. I don't know. When are the Blankies coming out? Like, this weekend. It's got to be. It's got to be tomorrow.

because, as we're recording this, because otherwise it would come out after the Oscars. So, um, the other update to the Vulture movie's fantasy league. We also had the Independent Spirit Awards. Yes. As I predicted, Past Lives took the top two awards, although those are the only two that they won, so it wasn't to sweep. What's that? Get your past lives points.

Yes, past lives people. This is probably your last chance to pick up past lives points. So, um, that won two awards. American Fiction, won two awards, and the holdovers won three, I thought. Three awards, right. They were the biggest, they were the biggest winner of the night, actually. Breakthrough performance, supporting performance, and cinematography. Cinematography, yes, which I would not have.

Cinitography at indie spirits is always strange. It's a little bit of a, it's a little bit of a crapshoot. That is for sure. That absolutely should have gone to all dirt roads, taste of salt, but, considering considering these are awards that people pay to vote for, you know, the most scene movie. God, we can't get out of one of these discussions about the Independence Period Awards

without Chris running them down with a tractor. The three performance awards were Divine Joy Randolph, Dominic Sessa, and Jeffrey Wright. So I was glad that Jeffrey Wright got, you know, got a moment to win something. I've been more happy about the fact, of Jeffrey Wright getting these nominations, than I am sort of enthused about American fiction, which isn't to say I don't like American fiction, but it's sort of, as it sits there among

this, like, very strong class of contenders in this year's Oscar race, it definitely sort of settles towards the bottom of that best picture lineup for me. So... But, I mean, I think the thing that makes the movie really work is Jeffrey Wright and this, you know, beloved performer getting this real showcase. He holds it together for sure, for sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. And, you know, he's shown up all season long, but he hasn't really won anything. So, like, this I do actually appreciate, even though there are multiple performances that I prefer that he was nominated against. This indie spirit lead performance lineup was very much the, like, collection of Oscar snubs, right? Where it's like, who didn't, who came close, but like Natalie Portman, Greta Lee, Andrew Scott, and then they all are up against Jeffrey Wright, who does have the Oscar nomination, which does seem to be the like, the indie spirit rule that if you have one person in your category who got the Oscar nomination, they tend to be the one. Which is sort of like, that's an attention economy kind of a thing where, you know, they're forefront in more people's minds.

Yeah. So all those points got distributed last weekend. No points will be distributed this weekend because nothing is happening. You'll get whatever scant box office points remain, whatever crumbs that anyone but you and migration weirdly is like now the biggest continuing moneymaker of the 2023 films. I will say this. I came. very, very close. This is where I can speak freely. I came very, very, very close to pushing for Dune 2 getting box office points this weekend and next weekend for anybody who drafted it. Because I was like, I felt so bad about the Dune drafters. How many people drafted it? What's that? How many people drafted it? I don't know the numbers, but a bunch of people drafted it. But as I, as was reminded to me, and this is kind of the only reason we didn't do it, is when Dune got moved to 2024, we pulled it off of the board so that more people wouldn't draft it erroneously. And so then it really became like we couldn't do it. It was later in March and then

they bumped it up to earlier in March. So that initial move would have taken it off of game. But what a gag would it have been to get the Dune 2 people to get like two weekends worth of Blockbuster box office of good money coming in? Like that would have been a real gag and I'm really sorry we couldn't do that. It still wouldn't have probably been worth it for points, though. No, because I think if you drafted Dune 2, you put yourself into quite a hole this year. Yeah, because Dune 2 was like a $30 buy or something. But even better then, because it wouldn't have affected the win. And yet, people who drafted Dune could at least have gotten, you know, a little bit of a thrill.

And maybe it would have made difference in, like, mini leagues and stuff like that. Who knows? So I really wanted to do that, and it's too bad. I will just have to settle for Dune 2 being a fucking banger and The Inevitable has happened I have seated

the podcast Let me say that again The Inevitable has happened I have seated the podcast rankings To our friend Katie Rich That is true

Chris has finally succumbed to the power of the bomb, and Oppenheimer has taken Katie to the top of the podcaster's rankings, followed by you, soon to be followed by me, because I think I will inevitably also pass you with Oppenheimer points. And then our friend David Sims is in fourth place. So, like, we're all kind of rocking this right now. I shouldn't pass. I, it's going to, it's going to, for me to pat myself on the back. I did, like, you know, build the game. So, um, not build. I didn't do any that. I always, I feel so bad about like accepting credit for like this and like Cinematrix just dropped, uh, just debuted this past week as we're recording this. Everyone go play daily Cinematrix. And so many, there's, there's like people who are just like, oh, you, you know, what a great game that Joe Reed may, blah, blah, blah, blah. And it's just like, you don't know the untold people who work so hard on actually building it and doing like all the technical stuff that I can't do and all the project managing and all the like you know all the stuff that makes me go cross-eyed

in terms of like you know making it work making it function it's just like I'm just the puzzle maker I'm just fucking um who's the one in Hunger Games who's like the the I just make the little, make the little puzzles here. And I, and I've been enjoying the hell out of it. And I'm, and I'm happy to, you know, accept credit on that regard. I just don't want it. I feel bad when it sounds like people are like, oh, this like, you know, this thing that I did, because I certainly didn't do it all by myself. So make sure to, I don't know, understand that, that it takes a village to create a cinema tricks and to create a Vulture Movie Fantasy

League. But anyway... Settle in where your points are, Gary's. Take a gander at the leaderboards. Patch yourself on the back. Yes. And get ready for another update or two until we have the final ranking, the final winners, the final point. A lot of Oscar, not a lot of points

up for grabs on Oscar night. As I said somewhere else, there's a very real chance that the balance of the Vulture Movie Fantasy League could lie in whether Oppenheimer wins best sound or not. You know what I mean? Listen, I think that Killian Murphy winning SAG and Oppenheimer winning cast at SAG,

I wonder if Oppenheimer is gaining even more momentum and it could be winning more Oscars than we think. Yeah. I think that's very possible. Well, we are sort of in an era of narrowed awards voting. It's mostly happening at the Emmys, but I sort of do fear it creeping into the Oscars as well. This idea of just like, there's so many things to watch. I have decided to just give up. I liked Oppenheimer. I saw Oppenheimer. I will sort of vote party line Oppenheimer down the ballot. And I find that in this case, I think it's probably just because Oppenheimer is, you know, one of the best, if not the best movies of the year for me. But it's not as exciting as, you know, an award ceremony where everything is up for grabs and lots of movies win. Anyway, we'll talk to you on the other side of the Oscars.

No, the next time we talk to you, we will be podcasting from the dark before the Oscars. So Lord knows what we're going to talk about with that update, but we will definitely hit you with an update after the Oscars are done. Happy Oscar Week, everyone. Happy Oscar Week, everyone. Bye-bye. Oh, we wanted to talk about the Cannes Film Festival before we got detoured by Adam Driver's Body, which won't be the first time, won't be the last time.

So 2021 Can, I just want to sort of go down the list of movies, and we can sort of talk about the highlights. um obviously and that was one of them this was uh the year of benedetta um what was the sign at new york film festival that i was so obsessed with um there were protesters we reject we reject this blasphemy um god fantastic um a movie that i don't even like love that much but like it's the the phenomenon around it i thought was it's a fun time it's a fun i will just i I'm always going to be a little bit of a notch away from it with Verhoeven, and I don't quite know what to do about it. But, like, I appreciated that movie. The one I loved was Bergman Island. Mia Hansen loves Bergman Island. What a tremendous... One of my two choices for the Palm. Yeah. I would have had a hard time not voting for Bergman Island. What a wonderful movie. No prizes at Cannes. The Great Bergman Island. I know. What the

fuck is up with that um you can see how a movie like that doesn't really succeed with a festival jury too yeah i mean immediate contrast to annette and bergerman island is much more minor key than yeah you know the all keys of annette that's fair that's fair um but like also just like the cast in bergman island where this was the year that like anders danielsen lie all of a sudden like burst under the scene. And he's not even in this one a lot. Um, but like Vicky creeps Mia Vasikowska, just tremendous. Tim Roth is so good. Um, did you end up seeing compartment number six? That did. I understand. I mean, it evolves into something more interesting than it starts out as. It was the finish submission for Oscar. I really thought it would get nominated

because it tied... What was it about? What was like, what was the plot? It's a vaguely, before sunrisey like here's two strangers who meet on a train and then develop a connection over the course of the movie a lot of people compared it to before sunrise I think that's

on a surface level sure but not really sure sure sure and like the guy of the between these two people the man and the woman the guy is like kind of annoying yeah but in a way

that like that's text That's not, you know, me being critical of it. Are we far enough away from 2001 now where I can admit that at the end of the day, I was not as caught up with drive my car as everybody else was. I love drive my car. I wished I did. Like, I don't know what's wrong with me. Like, I, there were parts where I was like, oh,

I'm like, I'm, I'm, I'm interested in this, but I don't think I ever vibed with it. I don't think I ever, like, it never moved me. It never, like, I don't know. It was. There is a certain degree that I think it's kind of like a wavelength type movie that you have to get on. I really respected it, but like, yeah. I think of the- Because it's so, like, emotional minutia that has, like, huge undercurrents underneath of it,

but you have to, like, really vibe with the minutia of it. I tried, and I probably, you could probably go back and, like, I probably was very complimentary to it. I'm sure I ranked it very high on my Oscar list. And sometimes it's, you get, the moment is there and, and everybody was so high on driving my car. And then I think once that's sort of fog of what's the opposite of war, right, fog of success sort of fades, then like, oh, okay. Like, I don't really think about that movie ever at all. Obviously, Sean Penn's flag day was a huge hit, and everybody loved it, and everybody

saw it, and it definitely exists. Tiri Fremot's close personal friend, Sean Penn, uh, was it you who sent me the Dadio trailer today? Yes, this, this is the Dakota Johnson Cap movie. I was talking to you about the Sony Classic Spot. I mean, I love Dakota. I do too, but like, I don't know if I'm going to race to Dadio. You text me, you were like, 44th between 9th and 10th. What is she doing? What is she going to go to the Hell's Kitchen Target? The best kept secret in town?

Nobody knows about that target. It's still very clean and not too busy. Don't blow this Forest Dakota. That's a great question. I feel like you're Lana Del Rey to me. Did you know that there's a target in Hell's Kitchen? Exactly. Nobody does.

Keep it that way. It's a good little secret. That was the first, I remember walking into that target in Hell's Kitchen, in June, and being, like, hit in the face with their pride display, and it was just so much. It was just, like, rainbow everything. It was crazy. Wes Anderson's the French dispatch. I think a hugely underrated movie. We've talked about it a lot. We'll talk about it again when we do another West movie. We'll do this. This will be our next West movie, most likely. the French dispatch I loved it I think we talked about it very recently

because I remember talking about how I didn't love the Benicio segment as much as the other ones but... Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It might have been last week because of Shalameh. It's true. Yes.

Ashgar Farhadis, a hero. I thought that was a little... I mean, I love... I didn't love it as much as the other Farhadis that I had seen. Same. That's how I felt about it. Yeah. And I remember going into

this can. And I was like, oh, maybe this is, maybe Farhadi is getting calm. Yeah. Yeah. He was the other tie for the Grand Prix. And I remember this movie, the lead actor, um, gives an incredible performance. And I thought it was the best thing about the movie, Amir Shadidi. Um, because I, I didn't, I just didn't love the movie, but I loved the performance. I felt like everyone who had an emotional connection to that movie was because of that lead actor. Yeah. One of your favorites was Apica Tapong Wyrusethakul's Memoria. Bang.

Contender for the Palm. Giant noise bongs in the distance. That is a movie where you say, what's it about? You can say it very concisely, which is, Tilda Switten hears a sound and has to go find it. And yet, like, that's absolutely, like, just the tip of the iceberg with Memoria. And yet, like, and yet not. It's not like there's a whole lot of plot beyond that. But, like, I don't know, Memoria is really good. That movie really connected the dots for me that it's like, oh, Tilda Swinton's, like,

top three greatest living actor alive. Like, and there was that whole brouhaha over that they we're never going to release it on VOD because it could only be seen in theaters. Except they sent it in the neon box. I was going to say that's how I saw it. I saw it on screener of DVD. I still have that neon box so I can watch Memorial whenever I want. But like I do feel like I wish I probably, you know, I wish I would have been able to see it on a big screen first and get that. I admit, it's not just like the site, but like the sound of it, like the theater quality sound.

Seeing it on a 35-millimeter print, if you can, as well, really makes you realize how meticulously made that movie is, too, because, like, the rhythms of it, it feels like that movie is lowering your blood pressure as you're watching it, and that's partly because of the sound design of it, the patience of it. It's just the otherworldly quality. I know that sounds so... sheep or whatever, but, like, truly that movie feels like it was not made on Earth. Yeah. There was Justin Kurtzl's Nitrum, the

Caleb Landry Jones movie that I totally meant to see and just haven't yet. And I still, it's still on my list, but now it's like, there's no urgency to it because the year has passed. The only one of the prize winners that I haven't seen from the game. Surprise, surprise, you did not see the Caleb Landry Jones movie.

I was not. I was not happy when he wanted there was some there was some enthusiasm for it though but anyway Sean Baker's Red Rocket one of my favorite movies of that year starring Simon Rex giving one of my

favorite performances of that year a movie that was far more complex and challenging than I think what people expected on the surface which was I think people expected this kind of like how is this ex-porn star going to put his life back to

And instead, you got this really insidious story about, like, sort of Trumpian self-made, you know, completely selfish determination to get back on top and to sort of, you know, use anybody to get to that end. It's really like, it's so much more to the point where there were some people who really thought it was kind of vile. And I'm like, well, if that movie is going to be effective, but if that movie is going to be effective, there will be people who think it's vile. And, like, honestly, like, you have to risk that. I think this year you're going to start to see some of the Simon Rex is getting cast in things more now. Like, the Simon Rex post Red Rocket casting bounty is coming. He's got a couple movies that he's going to be in in this. coming year so that's fun

really loved that movie what else was that year well there was of course Joachim Treers Jo Kim Jo Kim Trier's the worst person in the world which speaking of casting bounties that are just starting to like we are now about to enter the Renata Rines of

world and Anders Danielson Lai honestly like the both of them are just when he's not busy being a doctor and actual doctor. An actual doctor. Which is... His performance. He talked about so much that year.

It was. But never got annoying because it's like, no, he's an actual, like, doctor. He's a doctor. A doctor thing. I get... Suddenly, I become, like, Lainey Kazan in my big friend Greek weddings. Something. He was so successful, you should marry him.

I really liked worst person in the world, obviously. And Anders's performance, I thought, was really, As was Renadas, like Renadas was like justly praised. I'm kind of surprised that never got best actress traction since it got traction in screenplay that year. But anyway, she's going to be in a bunch of things. And then, of course, your Palm Door winner, the one we always assumed would win Palm Door and was not a surprise at all. Julia Ducernow's Titan, which were Taton fans. on this podcast.

That character really sure did fuck that car. It's so that movie really enveloped the culture around people who saw it. People who didn't see it

did not know about it. You know what I mean? But the people who saw it, there was just a multiplicity of ideas and interpretations of that movie. Yep, yeah. Feelings about that movie.

Also, I could not say it as often enough. Anybody who was captivated by Teuton go back and watch Raw, Julia DuCarnow's Raw, which is maybe better? Maybe better even than Teuton. It's smaller. It's not like Teuton is going for something much more grand and much more daring. But I think Raat maybe pulls it off better.

I feel like Teuton because like Teuton is, I would say largely not seen as a great Palm winner. It is not. But like, but maybe it gets too much shit for not being an Oscar success also. Like, I think that... Which it was not ever going to...

Also, who cares? Where it's like, Tiri Fremot was on the French committee and really pushed for Titan so that, like, Kahn could get the credit or whatever. And, like, ever since then, people, like, rebuked the process and now Tiri Fremot is no longer allowed to be on there. But, like, they're not going to vote for DeTan, guys. They really are.

And not even when they have less movies because of COVID. Right. They're not going to do it. What they should have pushed DeTon for was makeup, which we know that I am a fan of gross makeup. 100%. But, like, all of the most violent shit happens at the very beginning of the movie. and... Yep.

Yep. Other movies that played at Cannes outside of the main competition after Yang was a premiere there, we love that movie. Quintessential Dance Cinema. Quintessential Sarita Chowdhury Dance Cinema. Souvenire Part 2. The Tuvenire. Frederick Wiseman's Monrovia, Indiana. but like generally like the greatest stuff was concentrated in competition that year too

which like usually you see like what was a good can and you have to talk a ton about stuff that played in certain in certain regard and critics week and directors fortnight and stuff like that was that a different wiseman movie i thought monrovia was earlier than 2021 it was it was a special screening you're right literally there we go Thank you for checking me. But anyway, yeah, I think you can, and that's reflected in the awards, aside from your friend, Caleb Landry Jones. But like, you know, compartment number six and a hero split Grand Prix, as you said, a lot of ties. Screenplay went to drive my car, Renata Ransiv won actress, Lios Karek's one director,

Memoria and the Nadav Lopid movie Ahad's knee tied for jury prize so all killer no filler kind of in that in that can lineup and so

I mean well when they're giving out a bunch of ties they gave out two ties they gave out two ties it's not the next year they gave out a couple more though and that's I think when you really started to get mad and this most recent year were Anatomy of a all won the palm. They're like, no tie.

Yeah. No tie. I'm fine with ties, but especially in a year as good as 2021. But anyway, so that's sort of the fertile ground through which Annette grows, which on one level, that's pretty awesome that, like, from all that competition that Leo's Corrects was able to win Best Director, but also a little harder for Annette to emerge from Cannes with Buzz because Tatan had buzz and worst person in the world had buzz and drive my car and so there's a lot of competition showed up first ahead of them because it opened the festival so it's like two weeks worth of movies and it had the Amazon stink on it was the other thing well but it did have okay we'll talk about the Amazon level of this movie because I do think Annette did have the benefit

of people getting to you know can happens and it feels like a certain part of the movie world is back alive again or restarting again after COVID. Yeah. And Annette did have the benefit of, oh, well, we can all go see this very soon, if not now. Yes. Because, like, France has, I think, an actual law that the opening movie has to open in France. Right. That's right.

Right. Then French people got to see it right away. Right. And then Americans waited a month and then got to see it. Which is not the case for things that go to Cannes. I mean, maybe you'll have a West Anderson movie that's about to open or the Jim Jarman-Mish zombie movie nobody liked. Right, yep, yep.

But normally you're waiting months, if not like a whole year, to see some of these things in the States. Before we move on from Cannes, two things. One of which is Holy Motor, or not Holy Motors, and that won the Cannes soundtrack award that year. so good for Sparks. And then Holy Motors, back in 2012, won the Cannes Prize of the Youth, which mark that down right now for next year's superlatives. We need to hand out a prize of the youth. The Cannes Prize of the Youth? Okay, okay, okay. I want to do that. I think that would be very fun. What a cool prize to win Prize of the Youth. My God, I'd take that almost over at Grand Prix. You know what I mean? If I can't win the Palm, like, give me Prize of the Youth. I'll take it.

The prize of the youth. Plaster that on a poster. Seriously. Injected into my vans. I need to be suffused with the prize of the youth. I talked about how, sorry, you were going to say something. I was going to say, I want to talk about this jury because the jury's led by Spike Lee. All right.

Let's talk about that jury. Well, Spike Lee was supposed to lead the 2020 jury, but obviously that got canceled. That festival did not happen. Yeah. So, and like, you could, every, following the festival, every, time you saw Spike, it was just this enthusiasm that was so, like, effusive and wonderful to see. And it's like, you see festivals like can and they can be somewhat stuffy and to see like Spike showing up at, because they're the jury. I'm sure they can see these movies whenever they want to. But Spike showing

up to like the public screening of movies and like shaking the hands of filmmakers. as they're, like, exiting their, seeing their film at Cannes, like, is so, was so wonderful, it's so cool. And Spike Lee has one of the most interesting public personas in that, like, for so many years, he had kind of amassed this reputation as a, like, a scowling sort of, like, don't mess with Spike. He had, you know, from, you know, hollering at players on the sidelines at Nick's games to, you know, sort of trashing the Oscars and trashing the critical establishment, sort of taking shots at Oscar voters for voting for Holocaust movies, but not for movies about black people. And, you know, that he seemed like he was, you know, if not a bit of a scold, just like somebody who was a malcontent and was just not going to be in a good mood ever. And like... I mean, the press never put him in a good light, too, especially...

Right, because, like, he definitely forwarded those conversations that should have been happening, you know? And so, like, I think in this late stage of spike, if you can even say late stage, because what, is he in his 60s? Like, this, but like, yes, this. Right. But, like, he's delightful a little bit now. He was so thrilled to be in this position and so thrilled for the filmmakers to be in the position that they were in at the time we were in. And it's, it just felt like. To put it in a corny way, just like a very pure love of movies in an environment that can be very stiff upper lip.

And that's always been one of his best qualities is he is a lover of film. This is somebody who is incredibly well versed in the medium in which he, you know, has become one of its standard bearers. And it's, he's, I say that, like, he's like, you know, he's sort of become this, like, delightful person. But also it's like, it's not like his opinions or stances on things have softened. It's not like his governor's award speech. The press around him has maybe softened and they're giving him, you know, a little bit more room to sort of, yeah. But it's, it's, he's still sort of speaking truth to the establishment and whatever. he just seems like a wonderful, like a hang, just a really good hang, honestly.

Speaking of hangs from his jury, he clearly made like best buds with Tahar Rahim. And I just want to know when that collab is happening. Spike put Tahar Rahim in one of your movies. Tahar Rahim being anything else at this point to get the memories of Madam Webb out of our minds. I'll get there. I'll get there. Oh, we're going to talk about it. Also, I would love to know what the conversations between Spike Lee and Maggie

Dillon Hall were like. I just would like to know. Have you, by the way, have we, I know I sent this to the group chat, but I didn't get much response. I am forcing the issue now. We are talking about this new movie she's working on, which is a Frankenstein-ish project set in 1930s Chicago where

it's essentially like it's a bride of Frankenstein story said in 1930s Chicago starring Christian Bale as Dr. Frankenstein co-starring Annette Benning, Penelope Cruz, Jesse Buckley, and of course her husband

Peter Sarsgaard. I could not be more here for this project. I am so goddamn excited. It's only in pre-production as listed on IMDB. So we might not get it till like 20, 25. Which is going to be already hopping, because that's where they've shoved Mickey 17.

So furious about that. We can't talk about it. We can't talk about it. I'll get so mad. I'll get so mad. I love that the log line on IMDB, though, says in 1930s Chicago, Frankenstein asks Dr. Euphronius. All right.

I don't know who's playing Dr. Eufronius. it better be Annette Benning, to help create a companion. They give life to a murdered woman as the bride, sparking romance, police, interest, and radical social change. Radical social change, you say. I'm so interested. I wonder if this will have feminist theme.

I wonder if... No, I will be very excited for this movie, too. Maggie Gyllenhaal, especially after Lost Daughter, if she goes and makes something weird after that, I know. horror romance coming from Miss Maggie herself. I am so into it. Have we talked on this podcast about my favorite Maggie Jellen Hall tweet of all time? I know I've sent it to you.

I like the pun. Let's get it. Come on, ladies. Let's get information. Yes. It's every once in a while. Maggie. It's the best tweet I've ever seen. I like the pun. She was absolutely stoned when she tweeted. I like the pun. Come on, ladies. Now let's get information. It's not even a pun. It's kind of, it's a pun.

It's a play on words. It's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, if I get, if I get, if I get, if I need, if I need, have to get you stoned to, to, to, to, to appreciate Maggie on her level, I'll do it. Oh, no, I appreciate Maggie on her level. I just don't think it's a pun. Uh, uh, if, if I can be on my soapbox for 30 seconds. Yes. also on this jury, and with a movie that we won't have to wait as long, is Mati Diop. I know you're going to say that. Atlantics is one that has grown with me so much. I can't wait to see. It's interesting from that she's going to a documentary. She's made documentary shorts before, though, but it's playing at Berlin right now, hopefully winning a prize.

I can't wait to see more from her. Is Berlin happening right now right now? Yes, right now, right now. Wow. The documentary is called DeHumi. It is about the reclamation of art from the German system. I believe it's a German system. It would make sense that it was at Berlin if that was that.

Sure, sure, sure. Check out Atlantic's on Netflix, everybody. Speaking of also. And as I like to grandstand Netflix or Criterion said that we would get a disc at that at some point. Very good. I'm still waiting. Uh-oh. Get on it, Criterion.

Um, going from that two filmmakers whose movies we may never see, Melanie Laurent was also on that jury. She was the one who was attached to direct that Nightingale movie starring the Fanning Sisters, right? Oh, that movie is never getting. Never happening. That's, that's, never getting made. That has achieved flora plum levels of, uh, of legend at this point. I'm just like, it's just never, never, never, never, never going to happen. So, sorry, Melanie. Um, all right, back To Annette, though, I talked a little bit about how Carracks uses Adam Driver, but I don't think we talked about driver's performance quality in general. What did you make of Driver in this movie?

I mean, I think he's the perfect person to cast for this very caustic, no, like, no signs of actual violence, but, like, you would believe that. You're terrified of him. Six women will come forward, eat with a similar story. Yeah. That, like, and not to say that against Adam Driver, but, like, that he could play this type of intense person who you might believe has a violent past,

or could be violent at any moment, but also someone who might make jokes about, oh, I killed my wife, gasps from the audience. I tickled her to death. Yeah. Like, it has to be conceivable. stupid, but also he's so good in

those comedy scenes, in those stand-up scenes, where he's just, it's, it's, I like that it's getting at a type of comedian that is familiar to us without having him play, feeling like one

feeling like one particular community. Feeling like it's referencing one of, like those actual people. Shock, jock is a good way of putting it. It's also just this sort of, that he is sort of transcended comedy to become something of a performance artist. But like the contempt he has for the audience, the way that he feels free to express that contempt because the audience eats it up, which makes him hate them more. So it's just sort of this like cycle of, you know, this dark cycle between him and the audience.

the way he sort of uses this physical posture of not caring, he's in a bathrobe, he's, you know, lying down, he's, you know, knocking things around the stage. And yet also he's got this like Greek chorus from Hercules, you know, backup singers thing going on. I was going to say the dreams. Yeah, yeah, basically. So there is also this theatricality to it, this sort of that, you know, contrast. Also, you can tell he is definitely an artist about this kind of thing, while also this art is this performance, to whatever degree it is a performance, of absolute disdain. And you wonder, well, how does that not trickle into his personal life, his actual personality, his relationship with Anne, and ultimately his relationship with his daughter?

It's just like, okay, well. Also his celebrity, too, because you have these very. like, entertainment tonight sequences, interstitials throughout the movie of these very clearly, like, making fun of the, like, TMZ type of imagery. Yes. And then on top of all that, he's singing, and he is not a singer. I wouldn't even say like he sings poorly. He's not a singer. He's not trying to be a singer in this. he is carrying off of these songs as required, but it's, you know. And we already heard Adam Driver sing in Marriage Story, a scene that, people really just do not talk about Marriage Story anymore, but like, also the Being a Live scene. I'm going to hold a, I'm going to hold the torch for that movie.

I think it's a good movie. I love that movie. People were more, also, like, more mixed on that Being a Live scene, too. We're like, I saw a lot of people being like, I liked Marriage Story, the Being a live scene was too much. And I'm like, I'm a little half in, half out. I'm not anti that scene, but there are other scenes that work better for me. Like, the best scene in the, the best part of that movie is when he stabs himself and has to go through this whole. It's so, that's like, and that is performance too. Like, that is, Adam Driver's really funny. Like, it's weird to say

that people forget, because it's not like people forget that he was on girls. That's still like one of the top four things people know him from but um people do forget that he's funny people do kind of forget that he's funny and he's incredibly well that's because he's in star wars movies ridley scott movies yeah yeah yeah yeah well i mean he's not he's not in star wars movies anymore he's not withering away calm down i was saying withering away in silent okay well he is he's doing these heavy gravitas thing yeah yeah yeah but he he can be an incredibly funny performer yeah i mean this is the same year as Last Duel, and Last Duel, he doesn't get to be the funny one. Not at all. No.

And I... Everyone around him gets to. I think he's good in that movie, but you're right. Matt Damon and Ben Affleck get to have fun in that movie, and he does not. Well, like, Matt Damon gets to play, like, what is ultimately, I think, a consistent characterization, but he plays, like, two extremes in that person's reality for himself in the way that he's seen for it. And it's like, he's playing it consistently, but it is really like he gets to. Lastool is a really good movie.

I was so surprised how much I liked that movie. I do like Lastool. I mean, Ben Affleck is the performance of that movie. He's, that is, I am not always, as you know, I am not always sold on the Ben Affleck thing. I am not always as charmed by the Ben Affleck thing as people want me to be. That performance got me. That I was like, yes. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, with the bowl cut and all of it. But it is weird, because even Jody Comer is great in that movie, it's weird that that movie, which maybe we shouldn't talk too much about because we'll do an episode on it. Yeah. It's weird to come away from it, and maybe I would feel differently seeing it again, but talking about everybody but Adam Driver. Well, yes. But I don't think that makes him bad in it. You know what I mean? Like that. No, no, no, no. Yeah. But he also had this performance this year, which is, like, so huge. But he's also in House of Gucci where I do think he's not great. I don't want to, like, shit on him for House of Gucci because I don't think he's disastrous in that movie or anything. Not his fault.

It's not his fault. I think the tone of that movie got away from Ridley, which is too bad, because I think if given a little bit more effort, maybe, and, like, they were trying to get that. That movie finished seemingly like, right? Because they were filming that one during COVID. I don't remember. I remember those photos coming out. I want to see, like, I'm, I am positive that the three and a half hour version of that movie is better. Probably.

Because there's just like whole stretches that feel so truncated. Yeah. In that it's like you feel like you're watching pieces of several movies rather than in a way. that it's like, it never completes a thought. Much like me speaking on my own podcast, it never completes a thought. Yeah. I guess we didn't mention the fact that, so this is Adam Driver's first film as a producer, and that is, and that he was sort of like intimately involved in the sort of shepherding along of this project.

He was involved in it from the get-go. They delayed production on it from, it was supposed to begin in 2017. It was going to co-star Michelle Williams, and they had to delay production because- Rune Morrow at one point. Yes, before Michelle Williams, it was going to be, well, originally didn't they want, you said they wanted Rihanna, right? That was the- No, because Rihanna was in the original casting notice that Rune Morrow was in.

So I think it probably, my guess would be that this project evolved, some type of way. Like, maybe Rihanna was the Hellberg role in some other version that this movie almost was. I don't know. What if Rihanna would have done mocap for Baby Annette and sang for Baby Annette? I would have loved it. I mean, Gays really would have went crazy for that. Can you imagine Rihanna getting dressed up in the mocap suit and, like, doing all of that, like, and now move this way and like,

ticket, ticket, ticket, we're going to, like, type in our little keyboard and record that. I'm like, that does not seem to be an efficient use of Rihanna's time, when she could be, like, making an ad for Fenty or something and selling another million dollars. I mean, and you're right that it took a few years for this movie to actually get filmed from several different casting announcements, but Adam Driver stuck with it the whole time. And Adam Driver, I do think, is someone who really has cashed in on the... the Star Wars, you know, moment in his career. He's also one of the few people that didn't get screwed over by that franchise. He's maybe the one. Like, Daisy Ridley, I don't think, got screwed over by that franchise,

but she has yet to really capitalize on it. I think it actively sidelines other stuff that Oscar Isaac could have been doing. Like, I feel like Oscar Isaac is still kind of digging his way out of, you know, I don't know. basically being sidelined by that series. And then to not even get into the stuff with John Boyega, like John Boyega got fucked over. Anyway, that's... We're not here to talk about Star Wars movies.

We're here to talk about everything, Chris. This is our podcast. We are nothing, if not a soup. We have a lot of ingredients. All right. We don't have to talk about Marion Cotard a lot because she's really not in this movie very much. She isn't. She feel...

I wouldn't say Miss Cass. I would say miscast I never buy the relationship and I feel like it's because they don't really have much chemistry together A baby bird like Rooney Mara would have been incredible in that role Like

Don't she think I mean yeah I mean a Michelle Williams too Yeah I just there's no we're supposed to Talk about physically Talk about physical like Juxtapositions

Adam Driver and Roe Rooney Mara, like, it would look like the Lord of the Rings forced to resuct. It's just like Ian McKellon. Ian McKellon standing on crates. Yeah. Anyway. Monster. Well, I mean, it's so, Mary and Cotillard's Golden Globe nomination for this movie is so strange because Adam Driver doesn't have one.

And I don't know if this is all that much. heavy lifting for her because she does have a voice double for the operatic portions, yes, that's what I thought. Yeah. And at least I assumed. I didn't check, but I assume. I mean, she's still such an interesting

screen presence. And I think, you know, her face, like, you hate to just, like, reduce things to, like, they have a very cinematic face with some performers. But, like, Leo's Carricks knows what to do with that face in some of these shots. Like, there's some.

incredible shots in this movie of, like, Marion Cotillard being stoic. That's the line from Sunset Boulevard, right? The thing about, you know, we had faces then. You know, that's like, it was true then, and it's true now. And it's a thing that's true of Marion Cotillard. It's true.

That used to be the thing that would separate TV actors from film actors. Is literally, it's just like, your face doesn't play as well, on a giant screen as it does on a smaller screen. We've kind of obliterated the lines between that now. It's not Marion Cotillard's fault because I do think it goes back to the writing of the movie

and I think it's one of the movie's flaws in that Anne is just not very interesting and Cotillard doesn't have a ton to play. So I think because what she has to play is this dichotomy between her passion in this relationship and then the growing fear that she has of this man

Yes That she plays very well The fear I think she plays very well I would agree But you know You never understand why she's with him But you're missing the integral piece When they don't have that passion

So it's like it could be better And it's not the fault of the performer But Yeah And it's like, it's asking so many creative leaps and risk and bigness from driver that it feels like she's at such a disadvantage in terms of conversations like this. And I'll say, part of it is that she doesn't have a ton of screen time. But like Simon Helberg doesn't have a ton of screen time either. And I think he really makes the most of it.

And really sells you on this idea that he's so in love with Anne and that he's so in love with Anne and that he's so in love with Anne that he would you know essentially just like give let her go be happy with this other guy and then the daughter comes along and he's so conflicted and he's

like essentially like talking all of this out to you in the audience he's essentially most of his time is spent talking to the audience he's like purely in soliloquy until maybe the third act of movie this is why I sent to you and all in one take too I said

Simon Helberg in Annette's greater than Bradley Cooper and Maestro, and you know what, I'm going to stand by it. I think he's great in that movie. Every day, Simon Helberg hoped that the conductor would come into him. That was the quote today. You got to explain that because that was today. Bradley Cooper,

who I have not shot on this season. And every, like, some of the, like, when people explain it to me, I get it. I get it, but I just like, I haven't gotten there myself, maybe because I don't pay that much attention to this movie. Sure. But Bradley Cooper was quoted as saying, in reference to the ghost of Leonard Bernstein, something to the extent of I hoped every day that quote, he would come into me. And luckily, he did.

Now. It's a real Tobias' feud. Kine kind of a line where it's just like, you know how like Michael Bluth would just be like, you got to just like write these things down and read them back to yourself and just like, you got to hear, you got to hear how that sounds. I mean, Bradley, Bradley, Bradley. Bradley also where he's on the VF Hollywood cover and yet is the only one who's not in the, like you and Barry Keogan shows up a little bit in the like Barry shows up a lot of bit in.

Well, no, no, no, but I mean, in the parts where there's, like, chatting with each other. Oh, right, right. You know what I mean? Right. Where all of a sudden, it's just, like, just Natalie with Coleman Domingo and Pedro Pascal. And it's like, wait a thing. And Bradley was there on the cover with you. Where'd he go?

He's really just, like, a phantom of the opera of various soundstages in Los Angeles. Not beating the divalegations is all I will say. But anyway, baby and that was a musical in the year. 2021. And I want to talk about Annette, the film Annette, in the context of that. Because there were a lot of musicals that year. And I think a really interesting... And they were all pushed from 2020. Right. But I think it's a very interesting range of types, right? So like, I sort of, I poured through, I went into the Golden Globe lineup for musical or comedy and sort of like moved my way through the releases of that year.

So Westside Story is that year. It's the big end of year thing. It wins the Golden Globe. It gets the best picture nomination. And yet, despite all of that is not a financial success. And kind of comes out of that award

season, worse for where. Like, there was a lot of I don't know, I felt like, as somebody who loved that movie, I felt like that movie kind of got knocked around in that award season. Despite Ariana DeBos winning, despite the Best Picture nomination, am I being too defensive of that movie or like, what's going on? Maybe I memory hold, that's the movie that I

memory hold from that year. I mean, I came away from that feeling like Spilberg has the Scorsese thing that I was talking about. Absolutely. Yes. Well, they have everything. We don't have to vote for them and like it you know it becomes pervasive around the movie. Obviously Ariana DeBose won and like

steamrolled the season but like that's what that role does that happens for any that's that happens with Anita. I just love that movie so much and I loved the experience of seeing that movie so much and I wonder if for audiences the idea

of doing another take on a very classic, very widely seen musical that, like, you know, they see their kids do it at high schools, community theaters, do it. You know, it just feels like there is a, there might be a lack of urgency from an audience perspective. Even if you have Steven Spielberg doing it. I also feel like, you know how every once in a while we'll see somebody reacting to something completely stupidly on the internet and just be like media literacy is so struggling. I feel like there's that way,

there's a cultural literacy problem with musicals where I just don't think people know how to watch musicals as well as they used to. You know what I mean? Like I think we have sort of allowed audiences to find these movies peculiar because they're rare. And so then you get more and more people being like, I don't like musicals. I don't like when people break into song. I think it's stupid. And it's like, well, a lot of things in movies are fucking stupid if you think about it. A lot of things in movies happen that would never happen. It's so weird that you would think, like, breaking into song is something that is being like, well, that doesn't happen. And when, like, Autobots are crash landing on, you know, Madison Avenue or whatever

the fuck. And it's like, when the multiverse exists in dozens of movies every year, you don't get to say that musicals are fucking stupid. Like, like, come on. Um, And I do think that is a part of an issue. I don't, sometimes I get, you know, I can get finger-pointy when it comes to musicals I love. I was very much perplexed as to the reception for In The Heights that year, which was the big sort of coming, I mean, you talk about coming out of the pandemic. Like that was the first sort of like big crowded theater I was in after the pandemic, because when I saw a dream horse, that theater was not. as densely packed is when I saw in the Heights.

But like that opening weekend viewing of In the Heights in a, you know, crowded IMAX was to me a transcendent experience. And then so the what you call it, the dissonance of seeing

the way that that movie bombed at the box office completely was sort of like cut out of like it's, it's, you know, any kind of awards trajectory was immediately halted to the point where it doesn't get a Golden Globe nomination, which is wild to me. Even though it did better at the box office than some of the movies that were nominated.

Right. But they weren't portrayed as box office failures. And then also to sort of emerge and to be like, and part of that was the fact that there was a casting scandal that happened like opening weekend. Like it was not very, it could not have been more poorly timed. and people were not as high on that movie. Like, people who I like and respect, you included, had significant problems with that movie.

And I didn't see it then and I don't see it now. And it sort of confuses me while also being like, You are allowed to disagree. Oh, but that's what I mean. That's sort of what I mean is at some point I've just got to be like, other people could see things differently. And I think it's my enthusiasm. for that moment, right?

That sort of like coming out of the pandemic moment where it's like I was so wrapped up in it and I just could not imagine that everybody else didn't have that same experience that I did. So In The Heights will be an interesting one to talk out of this podcast. Feels like it'll be a bummer. This is the thing. We're getting into COVID-era movies. I haven't seen that.

You just don't want to talk about it. I haven't watched in the Heights again since I saw it because it's such a bummer. bummer that my that I have not been I it's the kind of movie there are certain movies that are okay that are being just for you right there are a lot of movies where I'm just like this is my own little movie and it's totally fine in the heights was a movie I wanted to be able to share with everyone and because I couldn't it really bums me out to think about watching it again well it was the movie like sitting at the end of the tunnel for a lot of people like in the Heights will be the movie that we get to go back to the theater and, like, celebrate movie going with, that's the way it felt for a while. And I think that made us, like, maybe overlooked marketing problems for that movie, you know, like, because what did the trailers make you think the star of In the Heights was? Like, what is in the Heights about? It's about the musical Hamilton. Well, no, it's not, but like, but you really love Hamilton. It was so cynical. That's what those trailers are. It's, yeah. It's, it's, it.

bad bad bad bad bad I will say though the end of that year I got a gratification at least that one Lynn Manuel Miranda property was doing well and that was when tick tick boom happened which I was expecting that movie to get absolutely savaged by you know people who hate musical theater people who hate musical theater people um which is a watch any season of drag race and you'll see that there are like you mean the current season of drag race how the villains of this season besides playing jane are the musical well i keep thinking that q is a musical theater queen and q no she's just annoying she's just annoying in a musical theater way fine a secret third thing she's so much more annoying than plasma is i can't even tell you i can't even like we agree on that um

but anyway we can't do a drag race diversion we're we'll never stop Um, okay, here's how I want to bring us back to Annette, because I think the solution, I mean, part of the solution is start marketing musicals like they're fucking musicals, you know, like you're not tricking the audience. And if anything, you're going to make them more pissed off. Okay. To like make them think they're not seeing a musical. And then they show up for something. Here's my question. Does the success of mean girls work towards or against that thing that you just said? Because does the fact that mean girls succeeded? Will that have? them being like, well, we did it. We fooled people into going to watch that movie. Let's do it again for the next one. Well, Mean Girls is a special case because Mean Girls is somewhat more of an IP thing than it is a musical thing. Right.

Because they did somewhat market it as just like a new version for a new generation. Right. So people can like approach it in a way that's more like, like we'll probably get another Harry Potter franchise from doing all of the books all over again. But people also liked that mean girls way better than I thought people, they were going to. I didn't really see much positive about it.

Oh, I saw a lot positive, actually. My feeling is we need more musicals like Annette that are, the weirdness is on Front Street. It is right there. Can I interest you in a little film called Sirono, my friend? Weirdness on Front Street. My rebuttal to that was those musicals have to have good music, but then Annette is like, and that is not bad.

There's as much good music in Syrinow as there is in a net. Disagree. Hard disagree. Okay. There is not a single, I mean, like, I don't think musicals just come down to hummable melodies, but, like, you don't remember a single piece of music after Serrano, and, like, there are many memorable passages of music in it. The scene during the battle sequence, when they're in, like, the foxholes and whatnot, is a really beautiful song, I think. It's beautiful, but I couldn't tell you what it sounds like right now.

Well, that's true. That is all earworm all the time, and Serenau is not that, but with maybe better songs, like a few better songs. I thought Serenow was bad. And I don't think Sirono is necessarily a good example of weird. If anything, Sirono needs to be weirder. But, like, you look back at what musicals have, like, kind of kick-started the musicals back again. And you have things like Moulon Rouge, Hedwig and Neng. And, like, that helped kick off musicals coming back.

Right. And it's like, musicals aren't necessarily going away. Like, we're getting two whole wicked movies, but I don't know. For, to intrigue audiences, I think it helps maybe if we have things like Annette that are skewed towards weirder rather than trying to be monoculture. Like, we haven't gotten great monoculture movie musicals in the past 20 years that aren't Dreamgirls and hairspray. Look at the color purple just this year. like another sort of monoculture musical that was not

sorry, very good, and there's good things about it. Yeah, I think it's more bad than good, but well, regardless. One of the other things I wanted to mention before we close out the 2021 musicals, because it was also like, Dear Evan Hanson's 2021, but I think one of the things that we don't talk about in terms of

musicals that year, because of the genre thing is Enkanto is much more like a traditional a traditional

musical musical but it's really good at it and in a way that a lot of Disney like Disney even Disney movies with songs in them didn't function

as well as a musical as Enkonto did like the second I saw in Kanto I was like I can't wait to see this on a stage because they're inevitably going to do a stage. And I think rather than like Frozen or something like that, I think Enkanto makes sense as a stage musical. You know what I mean? 100%.

And it's like creative in that way. And the musical numbers are filmed with an energy and a verve. And, like, and I think because- And the songs are good. And like, people won't say Enkanto was the best musical of 2021 because you're not really trained to think of it that way because we sort of silo animation off in its own little bucket but it is one of the like that and west side story i think are your two best musicals of that year and i would say incanto and annette well in that too that's straight i don't want to slight in that um all right back to the movie though and sort of with an eye towards uh wrapping

things up um we need to return to the subject of baby annette who is if you have a baby after all A Little Wooden Puppet, most of the movie, until she, at the very end, gets to be a real... Acheves Corporal reality. She can, yes. Did you spend a lot of time trying to wrestle with, like, what the metaphor of this is that Leo's Correct is trying to do? Or did you just, like, blow past that and just be, like, Little Wooden Puppet Girl is singing songs? I mean, I think it's very easy when we see these movies about creatives and, you know, the demon. of creative people to ascribe, you know, autobiography onto these things,

especially when it's made by an O'Tour like Leo Carricks. But, I mean, it's still, to this day, a little hard to just wrap your brain around. This movie commits hard to having a main character who is a baby played by a puppet. And it is treated like it is a person the whole time. And there's like, to me, I just kind of sit in Marvel. I'm like, I don't really have a problem with Annette texturally being a pawn in this constant quest for fame and attention by Henry. And she is a literal puppet. I don't have a problem with that level of obvious.

for whatever reason. Right. And maybe it's just because it's such a bold thing that we as an audience are asked to watch and buy puppet on screen. And not like Jim Henson puppet. It doesn't feel like we're watching something like that where a puppet is part of the reality of what we're watching. It still feels really crazy when we're watching it. Yes. Yeah.

And I think it's also, it's just sort of. sort of this like it's spectacle it's it does not feel like it is beating you over the head with a message the message is there the message is also like made silly you know what i mean like it's it's it's and very silly yeah it's real and it's you know allegorical yes here's all right a few follow-up questions. After Henry McHenry gets sent to prison, and Annette is made a ward of the state? Like, what's the rest of Annette's little story there for a while? Like, I imagine

she, like, there's no surviving family, seemingly. She's rich. Well, that she is. So, like, does she then sort of transition into, like, what is the media lifestyle? Does she get a talk show? Does she get a... Well, she backs away from the spotlight. Well, that's true. That's true. She would have been a good, like, America's Got Talent Judge. I feel like at that age. Do you know

what I mean? Her... She's... Simon Cowell Melby. Well, they have to revamp... Well, they have to revamp the panel every few years. So it's her, Simon Cowell, um,

Kate Chastain, and... Um... Cast maybe Annette on the Traders. Usher. Baby Annette would be really good at the traitors, honestly. As a traitor, Baby Annette, who's

going to cast votes against Baby Annette? Nobody. She is a baby, after all. She's a baby. John Burkow would have the most dramatic way of accusing Baby Annette of being a traitor. A marionette

of murder. The whole thing with the Duchess deception and whatever he said of murder with Parvity was the funniest goddamn thing. It was so good. Parv just squinting at him the whole time. Alan Cumming would have had a good time

in Annette if they could have found a role for him, I think. I mean, 20 years ago, he'd be the Simon Helberg role. Totally. Absolutely. Man. I will say, I'm trying to think of, like,

with the exception of Titus, cinema really missed the boat on slutty young Allen coming era right like that was pretty much like right off of cabaret right Titus might have been before cabaret I'm not sure about that timeline

sure well then even more so then then cinema really missed the boat I'm trying to think of like what are his best known film performances it's like eyes wide shut which also predates cabaret Or does it? Wait, what year was cabaret? Because Titus, I think, was the same year as Eyes Wide Shed.

I think they were both 99, right? Interesting. Yeah. I'm not sure. Titus could conceivably be like 98. I mean, Romeo and Michelle denies us his sexualness because of the huge notebook. Well, that is true. If they'd just not given him the huge notebook, we would have had huge something else.

That's fair. But anyway, I don't know, I'm so intrigued. The first time I saw Alan coming in costume, in character, singing Vilciman on the Rosie O'Donnell show, it quite literally, like, changed something. Like, there was just like, not that I was well on the way by that point. It flipped the script, honey. The script was already being written, but it really, like, it underlined some things in bold, where it was just like, oh, fascinating. Um, honestly, it was honestly one of those things was just like, I didn't know that boys could act like this. It was amazing. Great. Um, absolutely wonderful. Anyway, last thoughts on Annette before we move into the MB game. Okay. Um, some of these shots are absolutely insane. Don't know how they filmed it. And may we start should be Oscar nominated for original song. Oh, that was the one thing I wanted to say. So may we start absolutely should have been the nominees that year. Billy Eilish, no time to die.

We cannot get into a cul-de-sac about me complaining about Billy Eilish winning Oscars. Deserving winner, though. I love that Bond song. Ugh, you get that song. Beyonce's Be Alive from King Richard, Snoo. Dos Or Gitos from Enkanto, snoo, even though I love Enkanto. We just sort of talked about how great a song is. Beautiful song, but, like, we, I mean, it's been said plenty of times.

It's no, no doubt true. They picked the wrong song. know, but they shouldn't know. If your job is to know what's good about the movie that you just made, like, Bruno was the song. Van Morrison's Down to Joy,

Chris Files' choice for Best Song of 2021, from Belfareland anti-backstered Van Morrison. And then Diane Warren's Somehow You Do as sung by Reba McIntyre and Four Good Days. Listen, when people doubt your chances to get yet another consecutive best original song,

and it's looking unlikely. Sometimes you're Diane Warren, and somehow you do. Somehow you do get that nomination. So may we start, which was definitely, was on the shortlist, wasn't it? Oh, I'm sure it was shortlisted.

Would have been a better nominee than any of those five songs. Cooler nominee, but like, I mean, I wouldn't knock out like, dose or Igitas for it. I would. I would knock out any of those.

What am I trying to say? The lineup is cooler if it has it. Because even like the Beyonce song, it's like, it's not as great. It's not even nearly as great as a lot of other music. No. The rest of her music blows that song out of the water, honestly. I would, I would, I would, I would, Nicole Page Brooks, this entire lineup. Somehow you do, at least it got Rebo.

on the telecast in some form. Now I'm imagining Dr. Evil from the last Austin Powers movie doing the how about you don't, but somehow you do. Somehow you do, ladies and gentlemen, Scotty do. Anyway. All right. Annette, great movie. Great movie. Wild movie. Check it out if you haven't. Deeply silly. Deeply wooden. Annette, we love you. We will be making that

case for the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame when your time comes. All right, Chris, do you want to describe what the IMDB game is? So, listeners, every episode we end with the IMDB game where we challenge each other with an actor or actress to try to guess the top four titles that IMDB says they are most known for. If any of those

titles are television, voice only performances or non-acting credits, we'll mention that up front. After two wrong guesses, we get the remaining titles release years as a clue. That's not enough. It just becomes a free for all of hints. We love it. That's the IMD game. That's the IMDB game. Chris, would you like to give

first or guess first? I'll guess first. All right. I went through the Adam Driver route. He is, among other things, going to be in the Francis Ford Coppola

film Megalopolis this year. Among many other people. Among many other people, one of whom we have never done the IMD game before, and that is Mr. Lawrence Fisher. Oh, love Larry. Larry, Larry Fishburn.

Uh, The Matrix. The Matrix. What's Love got to do with it? No, not. His Oscar nomination. I know, strike one. Okay. Uh, how many matrices will be here?

Reloaded has shown up for, I believe, like Jada? So I'm going to say reloaded. Correct. The Matrix Reloaded. God, he's so good in this. I don't know if he's going to show up, but I'm going to guess Contagion. Contagion, correct. Honestly, in the many ways we miss the boat on Contagion, as far as awards were concerned, and they had that very, very last-minute campaign for it. It should have been a push for Fishburn.

Are we far enough away from the worst of, COVID that we can do Contagion on the podcast. Sure. I love Contagion. Let's watch it. All right. Soon. Soon, soon, soon. Damning fluid. All right. You have one to go. You have one strike against you. I don't think it's going to be another Matrix. Um, boys in the hood. No, even though he's excellent in that and should have gotten an Oscar nomination. Yep. All right. So that's two strikes. Your remaining year is 2003. Okay. So, oh, three. Well, that's all.

Also another, it's, it's revolutions. Not revolutions. Not, okay, so. It's a secret third thing. A secret third. Secret third. I need to stop saying, though. You've got me saying it now.

So, yeah. Okay, so what else was he doing besides matrices? Um, I don't think it's something that would have been in the awards season. Because I can't think of anything 03. that he's in so it has to be interesting

what else was he doing what were the other summer movies in 2003 oh that would have been finding Nemo um was that Star Wars was X-Men 2 Star Wars no Star Wars went

99 2002 05 Right right right right right right right I think X-Men 2 Pirates of the Caribbean Was this huge yeah he's not in that It's not in Kill Bill He's

God is this going to be something I haven't seen You've definitely seen it Oh okay Um Is it a it's not a summer movie No Okay Um

It's He's not a lead in it Although his name is on the poster He does so many ensemble movies Um Fall movie Uh huh Oscar Buzz movie

Oh no it's it's Mystic River It's Mystic River I was gonna say you blew right past the Oh my God Why is Mystic River on there And not what's Love got to do with it Or Boys in the Hood Does he get the end in that?

I wonder no I'm looking at at the poster uh he might the aunt might be kevin bacon he's uh fourth build he's it goes pen robbins kevin bacon lawrence fishburn marsha gay hard and laurlinie so no and to speak of i mean he's good in the movie but he's like he doesn't get a ton to do biologically incapable of being bad in movies like that right but like it's not like it's not like he gets like Kevin Bacon gets the more, you know, of the two characters, they're the two cops. Bacon gets the more personal connection to the store. He's supposed to be the, like, person for Kevin Bacon to have scenes with, like...

He's the one who, like, offers perspective for Kevin Bacon from, like, outside of this Southy sort of bubble, right? Like, that's the whole deal. But you're right. Like, what's Love got to do with it? Certainly. The Boys in the Hood, certainly. Apocalypse Now, you know what I mean?

At 17 or 16, however old he was. But I'm trying to think of other things that make more sense than Mr. Griff at this point. Like, Matrix Revolutions would make more sense, even though I think that is a horrid movie. You're wrong. You're wrong. I'm not wrong. I love that I've evolved into a Matrix franchise defender because I do really love those movies. Um, he was in that Othello, uh,

sure, version in 1995. He's in, he's so good in searching for Bobby Fisher. I love him so much in that movie. Have you seen that movie recently? No, I don't think I've seen it since I was a child. Highly recommend you, next time it's convenient. Just give searching for Bobby Fisher a look. He's like, Fishburn's great, Kingsley's great, Joan Allen is tremendous.

Joe Montagnan is really good. What a good movie. I love that movie. All right. That is our episode. No, it's not. Are you trying to get out of doing the IMD game? Oh, shit.

I'm sorry. I'm so used to like, I'm so used to going to giving less. All right. Hit me with it. So I went into the can jury from this year. You mentioned that she has an upcoming monster movie of some sorts coming. I chose for you, Maggie, Jill, Hall. Miss Maggie. Okay.

I could have sworn that we had done her, but it's not on the spreadsheet. The Dark Night. Correct. Secretary. Secretary, correct. Okay. All right. All of these are movies she's in. That's not... Lost Daughter is not on here. All right.

Donnie Darko? Incorrect. Okay. I know that movie is very popular on IMDB. Um, Bap, Bap, B, B, B, B, B, Buh. Maggie, Maggie.

All right. Stranger than fiction. Incorrect. Your years are 2009 and 2014. Oh, her Oscar nomination, Crazy Heart. Correct. Crazy Heart. Everyone remembers Crazy Heart and her performance

in it. Did you ever see that clip of her on Graham Norton when she's talking about the Oscar nomination and how weird it is to be in the audience and she's like, she's so honest about it. She's like, I knew I had no shot at winning that award. And like, I was like so happy with that. I could be like calm and wouldn't have to think about it. She's like, and then they get to the part where they're reading the nominees and they're about to open the award.

And all of a sudden, your brain just goes, what if you win? And she's like, so they open the envelope, and they go, and the Oscar goes to, and she's like, and you're like, are they about to say Maggie? And she's like, so they go, Monique. And it's just very charming and very funny. I love it. All right. What's the other year? 2014.

Okay. Is this like a movie, is this like White House Down or something like that? No, it's very not White House Town. I'm not sure if you've seen this. I kind of like this movie. Speaking of movies that I feel like should have been original song nominees. Oh, okay. Maggie Gyllenhaal and an original song contender from 2014.

Not really a contender, but should have been a contender. There's a good original song in there? Yeah. Would I know about it? If you haven't seen the movie, no. Then no. It does have one of your. baby boy is in it well i have so many um who would have been a baby boy of mine in 2014

still a baby boy of yours really lukey no uh logan lerman no older than those baby boys but this is still a baby boy for you oh okay all right what genre um i mean dark comedy okay and I haven't seen it. And it has songs in it. Oh, I know what this is. I have seen this movie and I like it. It's Frank. It's Frank.

It's Frank. Why is Frank on her known for her? That's so weird. That's so weird. No, Frank is a very disarming little movie, actually, for what it is. Big, giant-headed mast, and he's. suicidally depressed. Michael Fassbender, do you never...

No, you see his face in that eventually, right? Yes, you do. Yeah. Spoiler alert for a decade-old movie that... But it's Dom Gleason, who's my baby boy, who's in that movie, right? Yeah, yeah. Before we go, we should mention that Adam Driver won the Yoga Award for Worst Foreign Actor for Annette in the last duel.

Shut up. Shut up, yoga awards. You're going to earn our ire like the Razies have. God damn it. Stay away from him. What are you talking? What are you talking about? What are you talking about?

This and the last duel, but not House of Gucci? Worst foreign film, Tatan, what are you talking about? Yes. Maybe if you've seen three movies. Go away. Go away. All right. That now is our episode officially.

If you want more of this had Oscar Buzz, you can check out the Tumblr at this had oscarbuzz.com. You should also follow your, you should also follow a low. my God, why don't I start that whole thing over? Do it. Jesus, H. And that, officially, is our episode. If you would like more, This Had Oscar Buzz, you can check out the Tumblr at ThisHadoscarbuzz.com.

You should also follow our Twitter account at Had underscore Oscar underscore Buzz, our Instagram at This Had Oscar Buzz, and our Patreon at patreon.com slash this had Oscar Buzz. Chris, where can the listeners find you? you can find me on Twitter and Letterbox at Chris Vee file I am on the socials including letterboxed at Joe Reed

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