This Had Oscar Buzz - 284 – The Sisters Brothers

Episode Date: April 15, 2024

If you think we are too dismissive of westerns, allow this week’s episode to contradict that notion! In 2018, Jacques Audiard made his English language debut with an adaptation of Patrick deWitt’s novel The Sisters Brothers. John C. Reilly and Joaquin Phoenix starred as gunslinging assassin siblings in 19th century America, with both on the pursuit … Continue reading "284 – The Sisters Brothers"

Oh-oh, wrong house. No, the right house. We want to talk to Melan Hack, Millen Hack and French. I'm from Canada water. Dick Poop We're the sisters brothers S-I-S-T-E-R-S Like sisters

We're looking for a man named Warren He sold something from our employer We have enough money to stop for good Stop what? Killing people Yeah, right. Hello and welcome to the This Had Oscar Buzz podcast, the only podcast that is riding escalators all day listening to Frou-Fru. Every week on This Had Oscar Buzz, we'll be talking about a different movie that once upon a time had Lofty Academy Award aspirations, but for some reason or another, it all went wrong.

The Oscar hopes died, and we are here to perform the autopsy. I'm your host, Joe Reed. I'm here, as always, with my experimental chemical reaction that reveals True Gold. Chris File, Hello, Chris. I'm the True Gold. well sure fine this podcast this podcast is the chemical process that uh that reveals the gold nuggets of wisdom that is us or i'm the chemical that reveals the gold that is the podcast long and short of it i am the chemical that ate walkine phoenix's arm i almost did a mini targeted letterbox list but uh after i watched this movie but i want to give it a little bit more thought but the topic would be movies where one person ruins everything for everybody and it's walking in this like this is like Chris Pratt and Avengers Infinity War like that kind of a thing where it's just like

god damn it you really just ruined it for everybody didn't you um but he really does he's like responsible for the death of two beautiful young men who were in love with each other and that to me we need we're going to have a long conversation about Jill and Hall and Riz Ahmed's characters because I have a philosophical... Two dandies. A philosophical conundrum that I run into not on often that I want to talk about with them, but we'll get into it when we talk about the movie itself.

I'm excited to be talking about this movie. I enjoyed having to watch it again because I think I liked it even better this time around than I did the first time. And I liked it the first time. Oh, I thought you hadn't seen it. No, I'd seen it. But I was just sort of, I think my... I must have seen it when I was...

like seeing a whole bunch of other things. I didn't see it at a festival or anything. I didn't see it at that tiff either. I might have seen it like back to back with something and just sort of like it faded from my memory because like I don't remember enthusing about it as much as being like, yeah, I liked it. And I liked it a good bit more this time. It felt like when I saw it in theaters, which would have been after the movie had expanded,

it felt like already the movie was kind of dead. So I saw the movie loved it and was like, wait, why aren't we talking about this? movie. This movie's pretty good. And by that time, it felt already too late for that movie. And then the movie has like almost no cultural foothold. So I'd kind of forgotten that I'd really liked this movie. Yes. Probably even forgotten that I'd really like this movie by the end of that season. This is the curse of a September release for like a pretty like straightforward but really good movie like this is. It feels like to sort of continue with the metaphors.

offered in this movie that if you took this movie and sort of put it in one of those pan like gold filtering pans or whatever and you sort of like shook it around and it would filter out and part of it would be true grit and the other part would be first cow and you sort of like you know what I mean it's just like there's this movie sort of exists in twain a little bit yeah yeah but more violent than either of those movies though true grit's pretty violent. That was what I was going to say. The violent stuff sort of gets filtered into the true grit stuff. And then the stuff where like it's Jake Gillen Hall and Riz Ahmed talking about like creating a utopia is very, Phil's very first cow to me. And creating a gay utopia. We'll get

into it. We'll get into it. You got two twosomes in this movie that become a foursome. Unexpectedly, I would say. But you have two twosomes in the sisters brothers. It felt very sisters. We're close. doon do do do do do brothers speaking of uh off to use sound drops that i that i do we can no longer use we put up wait no we can use sound drops like that i feel like i think if we keep them like very short right do you think we can don't can't do them at all anymore do it as a test case we'll see we'll do it so sad because somebody mentioned our fair game episode just went up as we're recording this um and somebody mentioned that i did forget to put the uh Fiddler on the roof drop, before one of us mentioned.

Rendition. We're scared. We're scared, guys. In that case, I was forgetful. I was forgetful. But I don't want to lose that. I feel like that's foundational to this podcast. Where would we be without...

Rendition. Without our rendition drop. So we'll work it out. We'll work it out. Christopher. we're talking about the Sisters Brothers this week. We are talking about French

auteur, Jacques Odiar, who was making his English language. We're not counting. There is some English, I guess, in Rustin Bone, but this is his English language debut for all intents and purposes, yes? Yes. Which I think is an interesting sort of concept. I kind of did a

little bit of, like, back of a cocktail napkin, like, research in terms of, like, what were some first English language films for some major autors. And there's some, you know, big successes in there. You talk about like Angley with sense and sensibility or, um, uh, like even you talk, you know, people like Paul Verhoven and Miloche Forman who were able to sort of very successfully transition into American careers. Um, stuff that's a little bit more like, you know, middle, middle ground is stuff like

Fernando Morellis for, with, uh, the constant gardener. or even Park Shenwick with Stoker, which I think is a good movie, but, like, I don't know if American audiences quite knew how to take it at large. And then sometimes you get, like, we've talked about My Blueberry Nights, which was the English language debut for Wonkar-Wi. And, you know, you win some, you lose some, that kind of a thing. I think it's interesting. Do you have any that, like, just jump into your mind in terms of, like, you know, autors who make that. leap. I'm trying to think of even recent examples. Was Snowpiercer, Bong Joon Ho's English language? I think it was. Which like that was such a fraught production. Whenever the hell Mickey 17 comes

out, we should maybe do Snowpiercer. Yeah, or Okja. I love Okja. I haven't seen Snowpiercer. Speaking of Jake Gyllenhaal performances, I really like. Oakja. This is like, I need to stop calling things like the tethered of something, but this is kind of like the tethered of, of, of Okja. It's like if his Okja character was highly medicated, because he would still be like a dandy. He would still have a somewhat natural speaking voice that still feels very affected. So this is our ninth Jake Gyllenhaal movie, but I feel like it's our most recent one. But let me confirm that really quick. We've got our little Jake Gyllenha.

We haven't done wildlife. We haven't done like Velvet Buzzsaw. Right. We did brothers. We did love and other drugs. We did rendition. We did Zodiac Proof, Moonlight Mile, October Sky, Everest, which was, what, 2015? Yeah.

And then so this. So previous to this, Everest was the most recent. But I think the Sisters Brothers is a good excuse for us later on in this episode to talk about, like, 2010's Jillyn Hall and sort of where he is. And he's currently on Amazon Prime with Roadhouse that neither you or I are watching. Yeah, the reviews for Roadhouse have been pretty bad, even among people who I would have thought might have been in the bag for it. So that's interesting. But I think, I just feel like there's a lot of Jake's really going for it in this movie, movies, from the 2010s. And I want to sort of get into that because I think it's...

He's not really going for it in this one. He's normal. He's giving normal in this movie. I think he's kind of going for it within, like, parameters. I think he's definitely like, this is a real character, you know what I mean? But, like, he's really... It's not like he's taking, like, taking it out of first gear. You know what I mean?

I mean, like, the voice. The voice couldn't be more normal, but also affected. It's very... That's what I mean. Like, it's definitely an accent. He's definitely going for a, you know, this sort of, you know, moneyed Eastern seaboard kind of a thing. I like it.

I think he's really good in this movie. Right, right. It's a voice that is very aware that is going to be interesting. to the movie in an epistolary way because he comes in like narrating from his own journal and that's how we introduced, we're introduced to the character. It's like, yes, that's the type of thing that, you know, he might have drawn to. I'm surprised you're talking about Jake first because in rewatching this movie, I was like, oh, Joe's going to have so much to say about Riz Ahmed. Oh, I do. I do. I love Riz Ahmed. So handsome. He's so handsome. He's such an interesting character.

This is what I think about the Sisters Brothers, because you and I are not, maybe this is how we should maybe tee things off. You and I are not Westerns people. And I don't, and I get a little self-critical when I talk about that because I don't want to be like one of those people who are like, I don't like musicals. You know what I mean? Like that kind of thing. And just sort of like, I don't want to be somebody who dismisses a genre offhand. And I also feel like every time I say I don't really like musicals, I'm like, oh, except for this and this and this and this and this and I can rattle off like 10, or

Westerns rather, I can rattle off like 10 Westerns. We are well on the record of loving Tombstone. Tombstone, I really liked 310 to Yuma. I enjoyed Unforgiven, you know what I mean? Forgiven. Right, I know where, I know where, I know where, three 10 to Yuma. I probably hate Westerns even more than you do. And I mean, the Western, in like the heyday of the Western, they were the kind of superhero movie

of their time and that I think for a modern audience there's things you know there's obviously greatness there but you know as a genre there's also a lot of sameness too and you like true grit more than I do you know what I mean so like well there are western the coens one which I feel like the coens have a few about favorite coens relatively recently and I totally forgot to mention true grit and true grit is like every time I watch true grit I'm like all right greatest Cohen's movie I'm going to go to bat for it, which is too much. But I do love that movie. You are constantly on the precipice of saying that True Grid is your favorite Cohen's movie. And I feel like at some point you're going to get there. Like you're going to finally step out onto that ledge. Because by the end of it, I'm disheveled

every time. And it's like the Coens are the best people in the world to make a movie about how everyone is awful, but every once in a while someone's not awful and like not make that corny, I guess. Yeah. The Coens have done interesting things with Westerns, too, because there's Westerns and Western influences. I was going to say, No Country for Old Men is an incredible modern Western. For as much as I think it's very hit or miss, I think there are elements of the ballot of

Buster Scruggs that really works. I think... I like Buster Scrugs a lot. Yeah. I think what we hate more than Westerns is the Neo-Western, the movie that's like, this is like the modern way of doing a Western, like, uh, hell or high water. See, but I really like Heller High Water. People who say that Logan is a neo-Western, it drives us crazy.

I think there's just, there is sometimes in the way that, the kinds of movies that we like don't seem to get this kind of, um, sort of respect by osmosis that Westerns where it's like people are sort of lining up to welcome the return of the Western. And I think, to me at least, it sort of communicates a little bit of, oh, I wish we could, you know, sort of go back to when. It's a very, first of all, I mean, let's just be honest. It's an incredibly heterosexual male genre. And I think the two of us probably feel like, at the very least, sort of bump up against that, if don't feel like. explicitly excluded from that. Well, and it's also a genre that historically has been mired in a lot of racism,

a lot of sexism, you know, that it's like, it's just not for us pleasant to watch a lot of those movies. I mean, like, there's great movies. Like, obviously, like, The Searchers has the reputation that it has, you know, if we're going to talk about Jean Wayne being the pinnacle of. Well, and The Searchers is a movie that sort of exists within those parameters of the racism of its time while also very much critiquing and sort of like shining a spotlight on that racism. So like there's a way in which your classic westerns sort of live in, you know, sometimes at least live in sort of an in-between thing. But the other thing is I didn't really like grow up watching Westerns with my dad on the couch.

You know what I mean? Like I feel like those really weren't, I can probably name like a handful of movies that my dad really liked that were Westerns. The only Western I watched with my dad was Blazing Saddam. Oh, my dad really like Blazing Saddles is very much a dad movie. Well, Blazing Saddles, like, the first movie that my dad was like, I know you want to watch this movie, we're going to have a conversation before we watch this movie. About what you can repeat, yeah. He's like, you can repeat literally nothing in this movie.

This movie is making fun of people, you know, that whole thing. My grandfather is like, see, it's like, I'm not without nostalgia for this genre, because, like, my grandfather was the one who, like, showed. us westerns, and I specifically remember this John Wayne movie that, like, I love and never hear people talk about it, and it's called The Cowboys. It's basically, like, the bad news bears with John Wayne in the West. That's fun. There's, like, kids that die, and he's taking care of a bunch of children. And, like, I've seen that in adulthood, and I'm still like, there's shit I don't like in this, but I can still have nostalgia for it. But generally speaking,

No, it's not the genre for me. But I also don't want to, I want to open, I want to sort of approach Westerns with as open the heart as possible, because I don't want to be sort of that knee-jerk about it, because they know how it feels when other people are knee-jerk about the genres that I like in a way that are just like, ugh, I'm not kind of, that's probably just one of those movies. So really does grind your gears when people talk dismissively about, you know, the greatest genre, woman self-actualizing, you know. I was going to say. really, yeah. Please respect my culture, which is person watching movies about women who self-actualized. But anyway, so I want to just sort of put that out on Front Street that, like, I, as somebody who doesn't usually get enthused about westerns, I really like the kind of things that ODIR does with the Western here and makes it fairly idiosyncratic. I think he doesn't bother with, he, you know, there's authenticity in, you know, the costumes and the settings and whatnot.

But like, nobody in this movie talks like they're, you know, out of a 1950s Spaghetti Western. You know what I mean? Like they're sort of, you know, John C. Riley and Joaquin Phoenix are kind of bantering as if they're in a contemporary movie a little bit. And they get some good comedy out of that. they explore some ideas about the frontier that Westerns haven't historically explored very much, this idea that, you know, we talk about like the Old West and when we talk about like the Wild West and we usually think of like shootouts in the town square and, you know, big brawls at saloons and prostitutes doing the can can at the local, you know,

whatever, um, uh, brothels and whatnot. Madeline Khan being tired. Yeah. Madeline Khan being tired. Somebody has a derange or gun in their garter. Listen to us two homosexuals going right exactly to the like ladies of the old west, right? With their, God, we're hopeless. But anyway.

So you got a saloon and you got a bunch of ladies there. What do you do with the ladies? They entertain the gentlemen. You sell them a beer. You have a show, you got a piano play a man. Why are you all of a sudden Mona Lisa Vito talking about the wild, wild West? Listen, this is just what I imagine saloon women are like. They were like the real housewives of New Jersey of their day.

You're a fucking cowboy. You're standing by the water. Anyway. What I was going to say was... Beons, it just takes a swinging door and says, this ain't Texas. But wait, no, the thing that I was saying... could say was though, is there is an element of the sort of the frontier as a sort of realm of possibility for a different way of living. You know what I mean? And that is represented by

Riz Ahmed's character in this movie, who wants to like use this gold to start a utopia, like a utopian community, an egalitarian utopian community in Dallas. And it's the most precious thing. But it's also a thing that was kind of a thing back in the 1800s, and it sort of has gotten culturally swallowed up by the fact that the West, you know, sort of both became incredibly violent, but also then just sort of became the United States, just became more of what was already existed in the United States. And I think Odiard is very interested in that. This is also based on a book, a book that I have not read, surprise, surprise, by Patrick DeWitt. And I imagine. the ideas for that were in it because that book was like 2011 was published in 2011 so i imagine those ideas were present there too of this you know this different way that the west you know might have gone if it weren't for the sort of you know selfishness and stupidity of you know human beings you know what i mean particularly male human beings well i mean i think odyard here is definitely interested in that idea of not only charting your own path, but ultimately rejecting the path

that is set out there for you. Very much so, yeah, yeah. While also being interested in very American violence, very American industry, because, like, I think you're painting the Riz Ahmed character very rose-colored glasses, or maybe I'm just, you know, the fly in the punch bowl. of like, he's polluting the earth, you know, like, he has this industry that's, like, absolutely, like, dangerous and destructed. Like, he wants to reach utopia.

Yeah. By literal pollution, you know. Yeah. You know, he wants to find gold at the cost of the earth. Yeah. Yeah. It's not good. Yeah.

Which is interesting and, like, visually interesting, too. Like, the whole sequence of them, you know, with the, like, gold potion, basically. But it's not like anybody else in this movie is taking up the cause of environmentalism. Do you know what I mean? Like, I feel like this. No. I think, I just think what you're not wrong.

And I think that's definitely very intentional in this movie. That has, you know, his great invention. Let's pour these chemicals literally in the water supply. Right. Right. But it did, but it is nonetheless notable that this is a movie about people who are trying to reach an America that ultimately never got a chance to be, or whatever, a version of the West, the unincorporated West, that ultimately got subsumed by American, you know,

manifest destiny as they marched, you know, West. And I think that's interesting, rather than just another movie about like, you know, somebody whose wife and daughter were kidnapped and they have to go find them. You know what I mean? Like that's... I mean, I think it's a movie about breaking a cycle, too. Yeah. And ultimately what it takes to break a cycle, sometimes the decision has to be made for you, whether by horrific themes or by, like, literal fate. Mm-hmm.

Yeah. I love that. I mean, and I also think we, we, the modern Western or the revisionist westerns, there is something about those movies that I think we don't like those movies because there is an element of self-congratulatiriness. Sure. Yeah. And some of those, like, look at what we're doing. We're bringing back the Western or look at what we're doing. We're being a Western without being a Western, you know, in a way that feels like... How dare you impugn the movie Bad Girls with four female cowboys played by Drew Barrymore? No, that is a straightforward Western.

We will ride for bad. Natalie Stowe, Andy McDowell, and who's the fourth one? Mary Stewart Masterson? Probably. I think so. The movies that we have in the IMDB game that, you know, everybody who's on the poster has it in their IMTB game, Bad Girls should, by right, be one of those movies. It's not, but it should.

You should watch that on Zoom sometime. Sure, sure. I think that'd be fun. Kick it back to the pandemic. Also, I mean, I can't think of another movie other than true grit that I think is a better movie in this genre of, you know, recent times since the genre has been dead. And like both of those are just pretty straightforward westerns, you know, they're not, I don't think they're patting themselves on the back for reviving this dead genre. I don't think they're patting themselves on the back for, you know, being the genre without being the genre.

without being the genre. Which movies are you talking about? It's a very unpretentious movie to me. This movie, especially for doing the kinds of things that it's doing, I agree that it's not a very pretentious movie, which I appreciate. It's a good movie.

All right, before we get into... The Western, we'll be back this summer with Kevin Costner giving not one, but two movies. It'll be very interesting to see what his vision, revisionist or otherwise, reactionary,

perhaps of the West is in those movies, although I will say I am approaching them with an open mind. I will definitely see those movies. I'm approaching them with an open mind. Kevin Costner is one of those people who I don't think I like, but I really welcome his return to prominence at all times. I feel like we're a more interesting cinematic ecosystem with Kevin Costner. Well, we kind of talked about him in our Patreon episode on Molly's game, where it's like,

I don't think he's good in this movie, but I'm happy he's there. Yeah, I think I liked him better than you did, but yes, that's sort of where we came around. Leslie, I just hate the stuff around that character. I know. Speaking of our Patreon, why don't you tell our listeners about that? Listeners. Hey, did you know we have a Patreon? If you listen to us every week, you probably do.

However, we're here to remind you that our Patreon, this had Oscar Buzz, turbulent, brilliance, is there. for your perusal and enjoyment and support. Go over to patreon.com slash this had Oscar buzz. What are you going to get over there? You're going to get at least two bonus episodes every month, the first of which we call exceptions. These are movies that fit that this had Oscar buzz rubric, but managed to get a nomination or two. Like I said, we talked about Molly's game. Earlier this month, we talked about Vanilla Sky. We've also done movies that our listeners have checked. And and like Molly's game and The Lovely Bones. We've done things like nine. The mirror has two faces. Second episodes you're going to get that month is what we call an excursion. These are like deep dives into ephemera that we love to talk about on this show, like Hollywood Reporter Roundtables, MTV Movie Awards.

As of today for this episode, you can also go over to the Patreon where we're talking about the 97 EW Fall Movie Preview. The one with Jackie Brown on the cover, and inexplicably Bridget Fonda in the center of it. It's always so funny to see that, yes. We like to throw in surprise bonus episodes. We have a hotline where we take your calls, and we like to throw in bonuses where we just answer your questions. And we've done things like running polls. We did a whole best picture ballot this past year for our listeners.

I will say, we're coming very close to this year's May miniseries, and if you want the full experience, you got to sign up for the Patreon. That's true. That is true. We will have a robust and hearty miniseries for all, we should stress. Robust is... Robust is the word for it, yes. We will have... Joe said robust and my spine into place because it's like, yep,

I know. You will be getting plenty of May miniseries no matter what. But if you are a member of our turbulent brilliance patron, you will be getting the full Monty as it is. Indeed. Indeed. So go on over to patreon.com slash this head Oscar buzz is $5 a month. Joe, I feel like what, you know, we normally say it's the cost of you're buying Joe

a cheesy Gordita crush. You're buying me a Baja Blast. For the cost of that a month, you want to buy your favorite podcast hosts a Cheesy Gordita Crunch and a Baja Blast. I just had a shamrock shake the other day and was replenished for another year. So what's the Western version of this? You want for the cost of a cold to bloom for. Well, no, what's in the wet, like Jack in the Box is out west, right? Like for a, for a...

Jack in the Box is just Hardee's. No. Carl's Jr. is just Hardee's. Isn't that also just jack in the box? No, I don't think so. Listeners, for the cost of a can of beans and a bottle of whiskey, for the cost of a jar of salsa, a jar of salsa that's not made in New York City, New York City. For the cost of a doctor to saw off your chemically destroyed arm.

No, that's a bit more, I would hope. I would not want to pay $5 for that procedure. I would be willing to shell out a little bit more. That's true. $5 you're living high on the hog. You're getting the most fancy schmanciest amputation possible. The arm amputation scene is so good. It's so good.

I'm going to replace that with a golden arm. Because John C. Riley in the arm amputation scene is like barfing and sobbing in equal measure. There's a lot of barfing in this movie. John C. Riley barfs a lot in this movie. John C. Riley. We'll get into it. Listeners, go sign up for the Patreon. All right. Chris, if you thought you were done talking, think again, because you're about to delve into the fun world of the 60-second plot description for The Sisters Brothers. But before you do that, I'm going to run down the specifics of this movie. We're going to be talking about the Sisters Brothers from 2018, directed by Jacques Odiard, written by Jacques O'Diard, and Thomas Bidigain, based on the novel of the same name by Patrick DeWitt, Canadian Patrick DeWitt, as far as.

I know, starring Joaquin Phoenix, John C. Riley, Jake Gyllenhaal, Riz Ahmed, Rebecca Root, Allison Tolman, Rutger Hauer giving a... Yeah, may he rest in peace. This was, I think, the last movie

released before he died. Interestingly enough. And Carol Kane, premiered on September 2nd, 2018 at the Venice Film Festival, then a week later in Toronto, before making its American premiere in limited release, on September 21st, 2018, to an ignominious debut, we'll get into it,

because this movie was somewhat of a fateful bomb for Anapurna Pictures. We got to talk about Anna Perno. We got to talk about Megan Ellison. We do. All right. Before we do any of that, Chris, 60 seconds are on the clock for you if you are ready to go with a plot description for the Sisters Brothers. We'll not deny that I prepared for this, but I am ready.

Okay, and begin. All right, brothers, Charlie and Eli sisters are gunslingers that really just want to settle down, but they're recruited to kill Herman Worm to steal his potion or whatever that helps you find gold in them their heels. And there's a detective dandy named Morris who's charged with finding him and then bringing him to the brothers, but then realizing there's a larger plot there and, like, Warren wants to make a utopia. He can't let Worm be killed, and so the two flee out west. The brothers go in pursuit of Worm and Morris after killing a Saloon Maven, who reveals their day. the nation, basically.

Once there, Charlie discovers Morris has land nearby and deduces that they can find them there. Once they arrive, they're ambushed by the saloon ladies gunslingers and the four gang up to defeat them, ultimately devising a plan to work together and share the profits on the gold they find. But guess what? Warm's potion is highly toxic, so they have to, like, slather up with all of this stuff and then put their socks on, whatever. Get in the water with this basically like Roger Rabbit toxic waste.

But in trying to get the gold, it kills both warm. and Morris and leaving Charlie with only one arm. He has a habit sawed off, basically. Once they're in town, the Commodore who hired them to kill Worme and get the potion, tries to have them kill, but they eventually escape, and then they try to find and kill the Commodore instead, but when they get there, he's already dead. So what else do they have to do?

But then go live happily with their mom, Carol Kane, the end. 17 seconds over. That's not bad. There's a lot of plot to this movie. As I texted you, I was like, I am not envious of you having to do this plot description, because like there's a lot of like and then this happens and then we have to you know go through this it's not a it's a it's a two hour on the dot kind of a movie but it packs a lot into those two hours well and between this is happening you have this is who these people are you get the character details like measured out with the plot too yeah well and it's an interesting when the four of them finally sort of you know get together and team up it's an interesting spectrum of characters, and you get a bunch of interesting little one-on-one scenes between different ones. Because, like, Joaquin Phoenix is on the far sort of left end of the spectrum. He's accepted

that this is his life. He is the life of a, you know, an assassin for hire, and he's going to go and he's going to kill or intimidate or whatever, you know, whoever's paying him money, and that's just sort of the life that he's accepted. And then Eli, his brother, John C. Riley, has been doing that all this time, seems more restless about it, and has come to at this point the realization that he wants to stop doing this. And he would sort of rather that Charlie also stop because they are brothers. And he's only really gotten into this racket because he wants to look out for his brother. They have this sort of backstory about an alcoholic father and Charlie, Joaquin Phoenix, you know, killed him in defense

of their family, and Eli, as the older brother, feels guilty that he wasn't the one to do it, and so now he's got to protect his brother. To the right of John C. Riley, then, you have Jake Gyllenhaal, who starts the movie as somebody sort of like them. He's a, he's sort of like a gentleman bounty hunter, right, a little bit? Right, right. He has a little bit more gentility, but he really is doing. nothing better. He is also on the case

of trying to bring Riz Ahmed to this Commodore guy. But he also of hireable Western detectives. But he also very quickly and much more definitively when he meets Riz Ahmed sees in this, because he's not really somebody who wants to

be doing what he's doing. He's just doing this, and he's not doing it out of necessity because he came up wealthy. He's doing this as a way to sort of move west and get away from his father and all this sort of stuff. And now he's found in Riz Ahmed a better way to do that, a way that feels more aligned with, I think he doesn't want to be in this business of murder all this time. So he sees in this, an opportunity to do something else. And then at the far end of the spectrum is Riz Ahmed, who the movie doesn't really get into specifically the sort of racial

politics of it all. But as somebody with brown skin, he is somebody who is an outlier. And it feels like this is, you know, he doesn't have the options that the other people in this movie do. And so trying to devise this chemical, you know, that will help him find Golden get rich and then, and then start a sort of outsider community is sort of his option. And so he's, on the full end of the spectrum, he doesn't want anybody to get killed. He wants to sort of live in a community where everybody helps each other and, you know, lives in sort of harmony with each other in a way that doesn't sound like fru-frew. Like, he makes it, he sells it. He sells it to Jill and the status quo of what the scare quotes Wild West is and what these small communities

are like and you know everyone is assisting each other rather than looking the other way or participating in vibe catch me slapping down a down payment for a timeshare in Dallas and Riz Ahmed's Utopian Dallas I'm in do we think Riz Ahmed's Utopian Dallas is a gay destination oh can you be like are you gay in a way in Riz Ahmed's Dallas yeah it would be yes like today oh my God, like the Dallas of today, if it was a utopian Riz Ahmed Paradise, yes, absolutely. Riz Ahmed's Dallas coming

soon to Peacock with, I don't know. Real Housewives' ultimate girls' trip in Rizammed's Real Housewives, Dallas, ultimate girls' trip only on peacock. I'm into it. Okay, so you talk about how you thought that I would walk into this discussion

with hearts in my eyes about Riz Ahmed, and you're not wrong. Um, I really like him in this movie. I really like the, you know, the vibe with him and Jillen Hall, which let's get into this now. So this is not, the text of this movie is not that this is a, you know, queer relationship. And yet the subtext of this movie is, they're too dandyish. They're both too dandyish. They're very, well, there's, it's because beyond that.

too. Like, there are scenes where, like, they just kind of stare at each other, you know? And I suppose you could read it in a way of, like, they see in each other people who, you know, share the same vision for what, you know, the American frontier could be for them, which is true. But I also feel like, I think you have scenes where they're just sort of, like, kind of looking, lying at each other. I wrote down the thing at the end when he's, when Rizumet is dying at the end, and he thinks that John C. Riley is Jake Gyllenhaal. And he's sort of of apologizing for, you know, what's, you know, happened and all of this. And then he says, we should have known each other a long time. That is heartbreaking and a romantic line of dialogue. Like that is, 100%. Like that is, I don't think I'm going out on a limb by reading some serious sort of like longing romance into this. And yet, so here's my conundrum. And I think I've mentioned this on the podcast before is I think ultimately, toxic masculinity is the thing that should be dismantled, right? That we should be moving towards a culture where men, all men, are encouraged to express their feelings and express, you know,

a tenderness between one another. Right. Without, you know, self-consciousness or without, you know, shame or anything like that. and yet I am absolutely a participant in something where I see a storyline like this, and I see two men being very, like, tender and sort of soft around each other. And my instinct really is just be like, oh, you could kiss right now, though. Like, that's, and you should be. Well, but movies are also a visual medium.

Like, there is a visual, you're talking about two men staring at each other from across a room. I know, I know. I'm not wrong. You have to interpret a visual image. You can't just be like, well, that's the image. But you know what I'm saying, though, right? Is this, like, I don't want to participate in this thing where, like, every time a straight man sort of, or whatever, a man of any stripe puts down their guard of toxic masculinity for a second, that I don't want to be like, well, drop to your knees, Mary, and, you know, put that dick in your mouth because obviously you're queer. You know?

Well, nobody thinks that Mike and Big Dick Ritchie are getting to. together, but there's sensitivity between those men. Like, there's still things there that allow you to interpret it this way that are not what you're describing, in my opinion. I am also, for the record, not going back. I am, I am plowing ahead on this road towards, you know, whatever. I'm just expressing my occasional, you know, misgivings at this idea that, like, you know, the second anybody isn't a raging, toxic male that you're just like gay gay yeah exactly that's gay exactly exactly but anyway they are very much in love i think it's i think it's canon and i think it's very sweet and i think

it's very sad by the end that they all have to die because wakene phoenix fucking freaked out that the gold was getting unilluminated for half a second and ran for the can of undiluted chemical poison and spilled it all over the place and killed Jillyn Hall and Rizamette. It's very sad. Maybe Riz Ahmed could have tested the chemicals a little bit more to see, you know, why don't you get off his back, Chris? Why don't you just get off his back? Without being dangerous.

Why don't you give him a break? The man died, okay? The man died and never got to kiss his beloved. You know who else also died? Don't say the fish. The entire local fish supply. Don't say the fish. The entire waterbound ecosystem.

You know what? Sometimes a bunch of fish have to die for two men to realize their love for each other and express it physically. And if you're not down with that, I don't know how to help you, my friend. Like, I think that you and I... Some of those fish were gay. You're just trying to prioritize the two possibly gay men, and you're forgetting an entire population a possibly gay fish. If you're a fish, you gay.

If you're a fish, you gay. Listen, I'm just saying any local cacti was probably also impacted, and, you know, they're... Once again, Chris File with the cacti. Oh, we have to save the cacti. We can't find gold

and build our life together in a utopian Dallas because we might hurt the cacti. I mean... Playing a violent. sad violin song for the cacton who else are we uh looking at in this genre for polluting the earth i think we have daniel plainview as a worse offender well yeah yeah that's for sure um daniel plainview he definitely killed all of the fish in the near tri-state area daniel plainview was expressing

some some repressed something i don't know what it was but he was definitely uh uh Did not have a healthy outlet for his repressed desires in whatever direction they were going in. I'll just say that. You're throwing one supporting actor nomination at this. Does it go to Jillon Hall or Riz Ahmed? Oh, that's a very good question. I think I throw it at Riz Ahmed, partly because that scene you describe of we should have known each other longer is just... It's so heartbreaking.

It is so good it seems like that to, you know, Riz Ahmed. He has a great scene with John C. Riley together, but yeah, I think just, I agree with you. I think that's the nomination that I probably throw at this. The energy that he brings to this movie is so valuable to the movie at large that I think it's a look. You know what I would also consider in terms of a nomination is John C. Riley, who I think is tremendous in this movie. And this year, he's getting mentions for Stan and Ollie, which is crazy. Like he- He's not bad in Stan and Ollie, but this is the- the one he's better in, for sure. 100, because he gets a globe nomination for Stan and Ollie.

Yes, he does. This movie is a comedy. I was going to say, you could count this is a comedy. It's a comedy that involves people burning their skin off with chemicals, but yeah, it's a comedy. Along the local fish supply. Oh, my God. I am going to send you the local fish population and put it in your car, have you wake up and you go in the car and it smells of local fish population.

John C. Riley is incredible in this. He's so good. In the way that John C. Riley is incredible and undervalued in all things pretty much. It's so funny that he only has won Oscar nomination because I do think he's the type of performer that, you know, he's not really getting showcases like Sisters Brothers gives him. I think he's as good in this movie as J.K. Simmons is in Whiplash. And I understand that it's, you're judging two different things. And J.K. Simmons is a lot more flashy in Whiplash. There's a lot more.

Well, right. And it's a supporting performance, too. But, like, I think this is the best work of John C. Riley's career. I think it's, I'm not surprised why he wasn't, you know, nominated for it, especially when this movie bombed the way it did. But I think it's absolutely the most impressive stuff. It calls upon his gifts for comedy and drama. I think it's sort of, it's a nice little, you know,

encapsulation of all of his talents and in a really unflashy way too because usually when you throw the type of superlatives at a performance like you're throwing around now it's usually like a big flashy performance or like a lot to hang your hat on but i think there's a lot to be said about the type of naturalism and just the natural charisma and like every man quality that he brings to this movie that isn't flashy in a way that like Maybe that's part of the reason why this movie didn't make a lot of noise, because especially in a Western, usually those are flashy and big and showboaty type of performances or like elements. Well, he also sort of has to shoulder the major themes of this movie is the other thing. And he does that really, really well.

He plays off of Joaquin Phoenix very well. He allows Joaquin to sort of be Joaquin and have his sort of, you know, hamier moments. but he doesn't recede in any of those scenes. He's just, you know, quite good. I mean, I think it would take us a year and a day to sort of comb through the John C. Riley filmography, but I think if we want to just sort of do that quickly, because the thing about his career is...

The man never stops working. Well, and... The second he stops working, he throws that fedora straight on the top of his head. He sort of had that big year in 2002, where he's in three best picture nominees. He's in Chicago, The Hours, and Gangs of New York. He gets nominated for Chicago, mostly because he gets the big song number to sing.

You know what I mean? So, like, it's a moment where he's just like he's featured. But he's one of those people who you go back, and we've had episodes. We're like, oh, there's John C. Riley showing up in Dolores Claybourne. There's John C. Riley. He's in the River Wild. He's in, I mean. Have we down a six-timers, John C. Riley?

No, we're one away from a six-timeish for Johnson-Riley. Yeah, we've done a bunch. And then he starts being in the Paul Thomas Anderson movies, and it's more recognizable. He's obviously incredibly memorable in Boogie Nights, playing the counterpart. Nobody talks enough about him in Boogie Nights, though. Talk about understated because, like, surrounded by nothing but flashy characters and flashy performances. But re-watching Boogie Nights semi-recently, I was like, God, Johnson-Riley is. so good in this. He's so funny. Yeah. That supporting actor nomination was never going to go to

anybody but Bert Reynolds, and it's deserved, certainly. Even with Bert Reynolds, like, disavowing the movie until, like, he gets a Globe nomination. I know. And then literally just sort of, you know, scowls his way through Robin Williams beating him at the Oscars. I think the more I watch Boogie Nights, every time I go back to it, the more I realize that it is straight comedy. Like, it is such a comedy with, like, very sort of dark interludes or whatever. But I think it is at its heart a comedy. And the Molina stuff is so fucking funny. What's that? The Molina scene is so funny. Yes. Oh, well, yes. But, like, Walberg and John C. Riley as, like, a comedic duo at the heart of it is, like, it's really good. You got the touch. Um, he's, is he the editor of the

newspaper and never been kissed? Who is he and never been kissed? I don't remember. remember never been kissed well enough get at us listeners he's in the perfect storm he's in um well he's in magnolia which is a pretty feature i was gonna say don't breeze past magnolia no magnoia he would have had a best actor nomination for magnolia if you if you had to pick five sort of pov characters from that movie he'd probably be one of them right it's you know i think he's one of the leads of that movie yeah yeah i think so um and then like we said the big two 2002, where he gets the Oscar nomination for Chicago, it's a, it's a nomination that I'm happy about because character actors should be recognized for, you know, small parts more often. You could not give enough acting nominations to Chicago as far as I'm concerned.

And then the big sort of turning point for him is 2006. Well, he's in a Prairie Home Companion, which we've covered. but he's also in Talladega Nights, and that kind of is the entry point to the Adam McKay Will Ferrell stage of his career, right? He's in Walk Hard. He's title role in Walk Hard, which is, you know, not inconsiderable. He is one of the titular stepbrothers in Stepbrothers. He's in Anchorman, but only as only an Anchorman, too, and it's as the good. ghost of Stonewall Jackson, which...

Oh, I thought he was one of the, like, rival... I think it's... I think he's... I think isn't that part of, like, the history channels contingent? I can't remember exactly. There's a lot of stuff going on in that fight in Anchorman, too. But it's surprising that he's not a more sort of, you know, elemental part of that.

And so while he's doing all of these Adam McKay, Will-Farrell, sort of, like, broad comedies, every once in a while he'll dip back into we need to talk about Kevin or Carnage, right? And... Looking at Carnage, that's the one where I'm like, how are we not at a six-timers for John C. Riley?

We are at five. We are... Give me a second. Carnage, the River Wild, a prairie home companion, Dolores, Claybor and Sisters Brothers. Yeah, there we go. There we go.

Um... What has he been in recently? Stars at noon, but a cameo performance, I guess. Yeah, he's over Zoom in that movie. Right. Oh, well, he was doing the Lakers show on HBO. That's what he was doing. He was the main guy in Winning Time.

I mean, he's just a very good actor. He's just a very good and talented actor. And more sisters, brothers, fewer Holmes and Watson's. is what I will say, and... Holmes and Watson, not a real movie. Same year, sister... His 2018 is Sister's Brothers, Stan and Ollie, Ralph breaks the Internet. That was the other one.

It's like big, you know, Reckett Ralph, Ralph breaks the Internet. Good movie? Holmes and Watson. I really like... You know who was a writer on Ralph Breaks the Internet? Our friend Pam Ribbon. Our friend and former guest, Pam Ribbon. We got to get Pam back.

We will. Anyway, love John C. Riley. Love him in this movie. Listeners, I'm willing to bet that this is a movie that not a lot of our listeners have seen. Go back and watch this movie just for John C. Ratt. It's a great movie, but, like, you will feel the injustice that was done to Johnson Raleigh. This one played the Venice Film Festival. It won the Silver Lion for... Which accounts to Best Director. Best Director. So, I want to sort of dip into the Jacques O'Diard. of it all, in terms of why this movie had Oscar Buzz to begin with, because this is an incredibly

well-honored French director who is sort of a mainstay at Cannes, is a mainstay at Venice. Every single one of these movies that I wrote about him, it was, like, nominated for 12 Cesar Awards, and he's just like the Scorsese of the Cesar's. and a time of this episode airing his newest movie could be announced for can i would be willing to bet that it's there but the movie also sounds crazy what do we know about it's a musical it's a musical starring zoe saldania and selina gomez apparently i'm in i'm in if you are i mean i'm very curious of what i'm very curious musical looks like but sure so 2005 he directed X a movie called The Beat That My Heart skipped. Have you seen this movie?

I haven't, but this is the first time that I ever heard his name. Same. That one won eight Cesar Awards. It won the BAFTA for Best Film, not in the English language, but France passed over, passed it over for Julia Noel for its Oscar submission, which was nominated for the Oscar, but did not win. What would have won an 05? Sozi? No, it's too late for Sozzi. I don't know why I don't have this up, and give me one second. Okay, so that's the... I mean, it's the Brokeback Mountain Year.

It is Sozzi. You're totally right. Sootsie. Yeah, Gavin Hood for Sozzi. Beat out Julia Noel, beat out Paradise Now, Sophie Scholl, the final days. Lest we forget. Okay. 2009, though, a profit, which is a major foreign language presence that year. In the awards conversation, it was an Oscar nominee. It was sort of widely regarded as one of the two best of the Oscar nominees that year in foreign language film. That and the white ribbon, Michael Hanukas is the white ribbon. They both lose to... The Cannes Palm Door and Grand Prix going head to head. I'm pretty sure a problem. won the Grand Prix, not director.

A prophet did win the Grand Prix. Yeah. Sister's brothers are not director. Under Isabel O'Pere's jury. Yes. Well, that's the thing. So Michael Honica wins the palm door for the white ribbon with his ride or die, Isabelle Huper, essentially holding the rest of the jury at knife point.

Ask James Gray how he feels about that jury experience, which I don't trust James Gray to have a judicious or friend. Why? What do you not like about James Gray? It's not that I dislike James Gray. It's just like, he called her a dictator or something over that, and it's like... I know she's the jury president.

They're like, you know, if you like something that she doesn't like, she's going to veto you. Just like how George Miller apparently vetoed any awards going to Tony Airdmont. I like that you are... Shit goes down. Stridently anti-fascist and all.

ways except for when Isabella Lepere is the president of something. And then it's like, listen, her way or the highway, buddy. I appreciate that. Anyway, yes. She got that best actress prize for Charlotte Gainsburg, so I won't. That's not going to, you're not winning any favor with me for that one. I am not an Antichrist fan. Anyway, the Secret in the Rise won the Oscar, the Argentine version of the Secret in the Rise. Anyway, more Cesar's. for Jacques for a profit, won nine of them. It won the BAFTA once again

for Best Film, not in the English language. 2012, Rustin Bone. It is a can official selection, but it does not win any prizes, but once again, who wins the Palm Door? Michael Hanukkah, this time for Amor. Unanimously, I believe.

Nemesis, Michael Hanukkah. Only four Cesar's this time, and Marianne Cotillard loses best actress to, of course, Emmanuel Riva for a more. Marion Cotillard, probably a very... She was highly predicted that year, too? She was nominated at the Golden Globes, the SAGs, and the BAFTAs, and somehow does not get the Oscar nomination, despite the fact that she...

That movie getting a SAG nomination... ...danced with an Orca to Katie Perry, and yet, what else do you want from her Oscar voters? Does anybody else? Did Kovangene Wallace dance with an orca to Katie Perry? She danced with a giant boar. How dare you? Fine. She danced with the ghost of her mom on a boat.

Did Emmanuel Riva get a limb chomped off by a whale? No. She got a limb chomped off by a pigeon in a moor. Okay. All right. Mr. remembers everything about Amor. No, there's just a pigeon. I know. There's a pigeon in it.

All right, um, 2015, finally, finally, Jacques has his moment for, uh, he finally wins the Palm Door for a movie that everybody definitely agreed should have won the Palm Door and there was no controversy whatsoever and everybody loved it. Not considered a good Palm Win. Deepon, uh, 2015, the Palm Door winner that everybody was like, thumbs down. Nope, we don't like this. Um, have that seen... Speaking of Cannes drama, because who tried, who grandstanded and tried and like tried to get carol to win absolutely nothing when it was going to

possibly win the palm is this will smith oh zavia de laun zavid zavia delan hated carol what a fucker well yes well you can see if you go back and you watch the like press conference of all of the like uh speaking of jake jillenhall jillenhall's on this jury also speaking of the coens they are the presidents of this jury um They, like, after the award ceremony, everybody's talking. And, of course, is Savia Dilan snatches the mic, you know, spiritually, at least. And he's like, I feel like I'm such a better person for having to go through this process. And Ethan Cohen's like, well, you're not.

Oh, that jury, Sienna Miller. What a jury. See, there should be, I'm glad I know why there isn't, and it's probably for the best that there isn't, because, like, We want them to be making the most independent choices possible. But, like, on another level, there should be a documentary made about every can jury every year, just to sort of, to be released maybe five years down the line, and we can watch the inner workings. Is William Goldman, it has a book that I read that he partially, you know, details his experience with being on a canned jury. That's so much fun.

Tremendous. In fairness to Dupon. Did you see it? is a good movie. It just has, I think it's, you know, it's far from the best ODR movie, but

I think because it has that palm, it gets a worse rep than it deserves. It beat out, you mentioned Carol, also, The Lobster was that year, Mountains May Depart was that year. Our beloved Mountains May Depart.

Our beloved Mountains Made Apart. Son of Saul, Los Lodemesis's son of Saul, which won the Oscar that year. And then, I will say, a fair number of movies that one or both of us don't like. I don't think either one of us like Paulo Sorrentino's youth. I know you don't care for Sicario. I know nobody who cared for

Joaquin Trier's louder than bombs. Not a good movie. Justin Kirtzel's Macbeth and... Not a good movie. I haven't seen it, but I'll take your word for it. same thing with Gus Van Sant's Sea of Trees. So you know what's not a good movie. Sea of Trees.

Yeah. So you take the good, you take the bad, but there's definitely, there were definitely some, you know, big beloved movies that Dupon beat out. So Dupon, to sort of compound the indignity of this hated on Palm Door win, then France goes and selects Mustang as its official Oscar's submission instead of the Palm Door winner, which I imagine was probably. not uncontroversial at the time. Mustang is so good, though. Mustang's very good. I'm not going to complain about Mustang, but, like, still, you know, to pass over the Palm Door winner, there is at least, you raise an eyebrow a little bit. Sure, sure, sure, sure, sure. Or in the case of Teton, you raise an eyebrow by selecting it.

Right. So Odiard then goes to make his English language debut with the Sisters Brothers. This was actually a movie that John C. Riley had acquired the writes to years before and wanted to play the lead. So he's a producer on this movie. And then finally, you know, sort of, you know, hooks up with Odiard. This one premieres

at Venice, where it's playing in competition. It would go on to win best director from the jury that is headed by Guillermo del Toro, among others, Tycho Waititi's on this jury, Naomi Watts, Christoph Valtz. A very competitive Venice, I would say.

Yeah, so just to sort of run down and we can talk about these movies as we go. At Eternity's Gate, the Julian Schnabel movie about Van Gogh, which wins the Volpey Cup for Best Actor for Willem Defoe at Venice. Featuring a scene of Willem Defoe being front row at IMAX. The Coens, The Ballad of Buster Scruggs, is at this Venice. it wins best screenplay. It goes on to get screenplay nomination at the Oscars. Where are you with the Battle of Bustor? Battle the Ballad of Buster's Crux?

I loved it. I remember us maybe having an argument, not an argument, but differing greatly that year. I caught up to it very, very late that season, I remember. I don't think I caught up to it until after the Oscar nomination, if I remember

correctly. It's one of those things like episodic movies like that that are just like, here's a catalog of stories. Yeah. There's a ceiling on it for those type of movies with me, but I feel like it kind of broke past that ceiling. Or maybe I just entered it with low expectations. I remember being pretty grumpy about it, but I imagine it probably beat out something I really wanted to get a screenplay nomination instead. I might have more.

What's that? Got that song nomination, though. Yeah. That's not my favorite part of that movie. I should watch it again. The favorite, Lathamos is the favorite, which. the Grand Jury Prize, which is what, second place? Yes, and Best Actress.

Best Actress for Olivia Coleman. First Man is at this festival, Damien Chazel's First Man. Florian Henkel von Donner's Marks Never Look Away, which got a... But got, like, a couple... Cinematography. Caleb Deschanel. Caleb DeChanel, yeah. Hated that movie. I did not care for that movie either, actually.

One movie I did care for, even though it was hard to watch at times. Jennifer Kent's the Nightingale, her follow-up to the Babadook, which won a special jury prize, and then it sounded like they just made up a Marcello Mastriani Award to give to... No, no, no, no, no, no, that's given out every year to a young performer. Okay. It just sounded like one of those, like, we should give this another award. We should give this movie another.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. They always award a young performer. Milakunis won that for Black Swan. Oh, okay, okay. Asayas's nonfiction was there. I still have never seen nonfiction, even though I really love it. Everybody hated it, but I thought it was funny. Mike Lee's Peterloo. We both love Peterloo.

No comments until, I don't know, maybe June. We'll see. Okay. Alfonso Quaron's Roma, of course, wins the Golden Lion that year, en route to a bunch of Oscar nominations and a Best Director Award at the Oscars. Lashlo Nemesis Sunset, which was his follow-up to Son of Saul that people did not care for. Awful. Luke Guadonino Susperia, as you may have heard us talk about on this very podcast. Paul Greengrass is not very well-loved 22 July that I've liked a good deal better than most people did. Andrew Danielson Lye.

Andrews-N-Li, exactly, playing a very scary killer. And then, of course, the most beloved movie of all that everybody agreed was a good movie, Brady Corbe's Vux Lux. You've convinced me to call him Brady Corbe, even though now I'm wondering if it's just Corbic. I think it's Corbett. It's Corbett. But you're the one who convinced me to call him Corbé, and now you've gone back on. Years ago. I have since been corrected that it's Corbett. Insidious is what you are. You are insidious and pernicious. All right.

Brady Corbe Sorbet would have been a great other two. Brady Sorbet as a Ben and Jerry's flavor? Mm-hmm. Perfect. Perfect. I can't believe you got me into saying Brady Corby. Anyway, Vox Lux, a movie I think we should do soon, because I... I'm excited to revisit it. Anyway, what if our May miniseries... You might do us talk about doing this Venice lineup again.

What if our May miniseries was just Voxlux five times? I'd be so into it. Save it for 2025. Maybe we'll do that. Okay, so... What would we even do? It would just be like us talking about Voxlux for 10 hours, and we just spread it out.

Well, one whole episode has to be on Natalie's accent, right? So, like, that's, you know, one entirely. The other one is the music video. The other one, I don't know. We'd figure it out. I went into a fugue state watching Voxlux because I came out of that movie truly being like, well, the songs are only, like, five minutes at the end of the movie. And then you go and you rewatch it, and it's like, it's like 45 minutes of the movie.

It's a concert. Yes, it is. And, like, my experience with watching the movie was, like, that was over and done with very quickly. The fact that Vox Lux was at the same Toronto Film Festival doing its thing as a star is born, the movie where essentially, like, Lady Gaga issues pop stardom for a more folk rock sort of authenticity is really something. It's like the... Remember how angry people. got that Lady Gaga had turned her back on pop and was, is a star as born saying that pop music is not as authentic as other music. Yeah, I do mean gay people who were, I'm going to say a little

embarrassing about that whole kind of thing. I remember seeing Fox Lux in a half-empty Roy Thompson Hall. Oh, no. On like a Monday afternoon. Oh, no. Oh, what a, what an environment. Okay. Thoughts on Jacques Odiard, though. general or in relation to this particular film? Honestly, a filmmaker who's really hard to pin down. Yeah. You know, you really kind of blow the doors off with something like a prophet and you expect him, it's the type of movie you expect a filmmaker to like make that for the

rest of his career. And honestly, all of his movies are very, very different. Also in 2021, he had Paris 13 District, which in, in this. That year of Cannes made about as little waves as anything else in that competition lineup. But when you have things like Tatan, Memoria, you know, really kind of going crazy. I'm curious to see that movie. I still haven't seen it. But he's an interesting filmmaker because I don't think he's really easy to pin down while also being, you know, one of the world's greats.

Yeah. It's kind of really ashamed, though, like the Cesar's gave him. best director, you know, so he's recognized in France, I guess. Cesar has fucking loved this guy, like, honestly. Well, but, you know, it's kind of a shame that this movie didn't get as recognized, and maybe it was some of the lingering dissent around Dupon winning that palm. That's, I think, unfair. Yeah.

That, you know, didn't help people get excited for this movie. Yeah, that's a good point. Um, I think the direction. in the Sisters Brothers, though, is quite confident. And, as you say, sort of not particularly

showy or I think he, I think I think it shows a good sort of sure hand to go into this genre for the first time and be this confident in

taking it to some interesting directions without being like, we're tearing down the wallpaper, you know what I mean? Like, we are knocking down the walls. And I like that. I think this movie sort of exists in conversation with itself, but in a really interesting way. In that, like, the John C. Riley, Joaquin Phoenix half is sort of in conversation with the Jake Gyllenhaal, Riz Ahmed, half. and then it comes together, and then it sort of blows apart again.

And yeah, I think it's really good and underrated and partially underrated because it maybe was instrumental in the downfall of Annapurta Pictures, which... I wouldn't say instrumental, but definitely indicative of that company's lack of, I don't want to dump on Anapurta pictures. I don't either. The decade before this movie was a production house. Right. And they, you know, Megan Ellis, spearheaded by Megan Ellison, billionaire, you know, who loves movies. Daughter of Larry Ellison, like one of the like richest and most influential people, businessmen in the world. In the 20 teens, you know, we were talking about her like she was the savior of movies. Now no one mentions her name. I feel bad talking about the sort of downfall of Anna Perna because I often think, like, what would I do if I ever won, like, a billion dollars in

the Powerball or whatever? And, like, one of them is, like, maybe try and do it Megan Heller's didn't, just try and, like, get movies made. And then you see, like, how quickly, like, in under 10 years that can go from success to bankruptcy, and you're just like, well, shit, like... Well, and it's partly because they go from being a production house to a distribution company, very successful as a production company, and not successful as a distribution company. The first movie, I believe, they came out with was Catherine Bigelow's Detroit,

which, like, they just, they took a lot of hits right away. They weren't really, so can I ask you? They didn't know how to bring these movies to people, too, because in 2018, you know, they have the Sisters Brothers and Beale Street and then Vice, obviously, Vice, you know. So Beale Street, Vice, and Destroyer all open within a week of each other, all open within a week of each other in December of 2018, which, which to me is not a great idea, particularly because, and who knows when movies were done. I don't always, sometimes I'll say, like, oh, this movie shouldn't have opened then, and somebody would be like, well, it wasn't done. I'm like, well, then you could wait to open it the next year.

You know what I mean? Like, it doesn't, you don't have to rush something out. You don't have to. Like, it's not, you know, you're not obligated to. And particularly for these small movies that aren't, like, committed to, like, iMac screens or anything like that but anyway well and like two of those movies were done we saw them at tiff you know they don't have to be christmas week releases and sisters brothers was released shortly after tiff but like even by the time they're releasing it it felt like

their afterthought you know well that's the thing is like a lot of these movies were good they weren't all good movies but like brad status good movie they co-distributed that with amazon professor marston and the wonder woman which was, like, so under the radar, but, like, I'm surprised that they didn't do a better job of being, you know, trying to, like, you know, hitch a ride with the superhero, you know, train as, you know, like, almost like counter-programming to that. I think, sorry to bother you as an example of a movie that was marketed decently well. And I feel like that was part of the cultural zeitgeist for at least a moment. And then you get into Sisters Brothers, Beale Street, both very good. Destroyer, maybe not great, but, like, kind of interesting.

Like, it's a Karen Kusama movie. She knows what she's doing. I still feel like we didn't understand that movie at the time, myself included. You know, we didn't. We wanted A and we were given H, you know. Right, right. It's, you know, it's operating on a level that we weren't willing to take it at. So when we eventually do Destroyer, it'll be interesting to revisit.

And then Vice is bad, but Vice is the one that gets the best picture nomination by Hooker, right crook, sort of by almost, you know, like, defiance. Some money. In defiance of what seemingly everybody wanted, Vice gets the Oscar nomination. And then, like, it's a real short journey. It's five years as a distributor. And then they, you know, stop. They're still producing.

movies. They produce, they're producing Nightbitch, or co-producing Nightbitch with a bunch of other companies. I don't know. And they've also somewhat folded into the MGM, Amazon, Orion thing that I still can't really understand what is what over there. You'll still see the, you'll still see their production card every once in a while, but for all intents and purposes, um, 2018, 2019 was a pretty kind of catastrophic moment for Anapurna, which is too bad. When you have, if Beale Street could talk on your hands

and you don't know what you're doing with it, like, yeah, you know. Yep, yep, it's true, it's true. But they have on their, you know, there was a lot of movies that they, as a producer or co-producer, had their hand in. And, you know, Zero Dark 30 was a big one for them. Spring Breakers was a big one for them.

Obviously, these are all co-productions with other studios, but... The David O. Russell's. The David O. Russell's, right? Exactly. Her. So, you know, we're thankful for that. Well, we're thankful for, you know, if you're going to have billionaires, the least you can do is let them have kids who decide to go throw money at people to make good movies. So I guess we're happy for that. I wish I was better versed in the business side of this to have maybe more of a thing to say about why Anapurna was good or bad and why it failed, but I'm not.

Well, I mean, it is it is so weird that in the span of less than a decade, they went from being like a savior to cinema to being gone, kind of, or folded into. this whole other thing. Yeah. For our purposes, we can say that the sisters brothers got a $38 million reported budget and made 3.1 domestic. So that, I think, kind of says a lot, both about why that business ultimately didn't succeed and also why the sisters brothers was a non-starter in this year's awards race. Yeah.

Yeah. like on paper anticipate it's one of those things that it's like as soon as it kind of opens and dies it's gone but it's all you know pre anticipation i also feel like the sisters brothers a movie that we've talked at length already about how it's not demonstrative in the way that maybe audiences would expect it to be because even i think uh wakene phoenix is fair he's doing the wakene thing but in a sub-demeanor dude way, you know, that's not as big. I think it's hard for a movie that is as direct and straightforward, but not flashy as this is, to get ahead in a year like 2018. I think that's probably true. Where it's like the big movie story of the year is, you know, Alfonso Coron's big personal artistic statement with Roma and then Black Panther and... Bohemian Rhapsody. What?

Bohemian Rhapsody. The box office success of Bohemian Rhapsody, Barf, Vigo Mortensen, folding a pizza in half and eating it, barf. Yeah. You know, you're fighting for space with loud. Don't, don't, don't wrap the pizza into this story of failure. The pizza did nothing. The pizza was there doing what it was supposed to do. The pizza could have fell out of its box.

The pizza could have done something. Are you saying that the pizza could have employed more active resistance to the artistic endeavor it was involved in? It could have refused to fold. It could have... That's exactly what I'm saying. Okay. All right. You know, I'll let you have that.

Weeke pizza. Spineless pizza being folded so easily. I promise that we'd go into 2010's Jake Gyllenhaal, and I do want to do that here because I do feel like it's rather fascinating. I think in the wake of his sort of emergency. as a leading man in the late aughts with movies like Brokeback Mountain and Jarhead and Zodiac and Brothers, and of course, rendition. 2010s kicks off with two attempts at playing two different types of leading men

in both kind of flop. The Prince of Persia, Sands of Time, where he just tries to be an action star, and then Love in Other Drugs, where he tries to be sort of a romantic dromedy, star and both of those kind of flop, although he gets a Globe nomination for Love and Other Drugs. We talked about that movie. Go back and listen to our episode on that one. And I think from there, his movies start to become steadily

stranger in a lot of different directions, where his action movies become like source code. You know what I mean? And his, he does a lot of cop roles. He plays a cop in, like, back-to-back roles in 2012 and 2013 with End of Watch and Prisoners. But I don't think you could call either one of those movies typical sort of cop movies, right? Where he's pretty... In some way, the action movies are, like, pretty macho, though,

because I see End of Watch and I think, like, macho in the coming year, Southpaw, pretty fucking much. Well, Southpaw is part of this, like... He has this shadow trend of movies where he is, he's dependent on this kind of, again, very sort of like macho, sort of like strength, like physical strength, because stronger is also on there and Southpaw. But, like, honestly, if you watch End of Watch and Prisoners, I think I put both of those in the same bucket that I would put Ambulance, Ambu Los Angelesans, in that, like, The actual performance is so idiosyncratic and peculiar, and, like, he's really, like, sort of, like, going for something in a way that is very fun to watch. And to me, elevates the movie that he's in from, like, he's up to something in prisoners. And I find it deeply fascinating. There's a lot of business going on.

Yeah, I think he's pretty good in that movie. Talk about a movie with a lot of big choices being made, and he's, He's pretty subtle in that movie. I think he's really good. But, like, doing a lot. He's doing a lot in that movie. He does, well, that's part of his 2013 sort of Denisville Nive double, because he's also in Enemy, which is a very sort of odd psychological thriller that is essentially, what if Toronto were being stalked by a giant spider? And, like, that's not even a joke. But the spider was, like, your ex-girlfriend. Right.

very famous sort of shock cut in the end of that movie. I still don't know what the fuck enemy is about, but I'm very much the Trinity Taylor meme for that one, which is just like, I don't know what she was saying, but girl, I am living. Like, that's sort of me and enemy. That all seems to be leading up to Nightcrawler, where it's sort of the culmination of source code

and end of watch and prisoners and enemy, and all the sort of, like, subtle, like, edginess to all those roles, and it all comes out the eyes in Nightcrawler. And a lot of people really love that performance and really love that movie. That's Jake and Riz Ahmed's first sort of cinematic dalliance with each other. They were also probably in love in that movie. I'm just going to throw that out there. I'm a bit, you and I think are both a cooler on Nightcrawler than most people are. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I want to give it another shot. Personally. I would give it another shot. Maybe we'll do it as an exception. I think it would be a good exception. I think René Russo is also incredible in that movie. But certainly, people really loved Jake, and people were very much behind the best actor nomination for Jake. And he missed out, I would say probably, by not much that year.

He certainly seemed like he was in the sixth place spot. And then things waver for a couple of years, whereas, like, his 2015, you know, mentioned Southpaw, which doesn't really connect with audiences. He does Jean-Marc-Marc Ville's demolition, which completely does not exist. And we absolutely have to do that for this podcast at some point. But, like, does not. It's open to the Toronto Film Festival. Absolutely.

Like, we don't... Open to that Toronto. Was the Toronto opener? No one liked it. And Searchlight was quickly, like, yeah, we're not going to open it this fall, you know. We're going to open it in the spray. We talked about Everest. I think he's actually really fun in Everest.

And that's also the year that accidental love finally makes it to movie screens, although I don't know how many screens it actually played on. I've never seen Accidental Love. This is the David O. Russell movie that was originally supposed to be called Nailed. It is about Jessica Beale who gets a nail driven into her head and it changes her personality or something like that. and then it's a rom-com with her and Jake Gyllenhaal. David O'Russell ultimately took his name off of the movie.

And I don't think he finished it. It sat on a shelf for years. I guess, yeah, somebody else must have stepped in to finish it. But anyway, completely notorious. I've never seen it. Who else is in this movie, I wonder? Jake John Hall, Jessica Beale, Catherine Keener,

James Marsden, Tracy Morgan, Paul Rubens, rest in peace. D'Angelo. Kirstie Alley, rest in peace, James Brolin. Wow, okay, so I should give us a go sometime and just see how bad it is because it's supposed to be pretty bad. And then he's the single

least memorable part of nocturnal animals, which in many ways is a blessing, I think, for Jake. In that, like, everybody else who, well, no, Laura Linney's memorable, I think, for good reasons. But, like, it's not a feather in Amy Adams's cap. Army Hammer, probably the less said the better.

That movie is toxic waste. It is awful, I think. Michael Shannon gets an Oscar nomination from it, and nobody's happy about it. Aaron Taylor Johnson. Michael Shannon gets a nomination. That movie probably single-handedly keeps Amy Adams from getting her nomination for Arrival.

Wait, explain. Well, Arrival is that year, too. Yes. And they're both running lead campaigns for this movie. Nocturnal Animals did well with BAFTA. I think that it siphon votes away from her. Really? A rival performance.

Wow. Okay. Also, Aaron Taylor Johnson wipes his ass on screen and gets the Golden Globe for his pleasure. So there's that. You know I'm an Aaron Taylor Johnson apologist, but even I will not go so far as to stick up for nocturnal animals. Hate that movie. Hate it, hate it, hate it. Awful. And then 2017 comes up.

long. And sort of life is really forgettable. Like, this is a, like, science fiction horror movie set in space. Except now, everybody thinks they remember this movie because they want to believe that Jake Gyllenhaal screamed at Rebecca Ferguson on set. Haven't we all realized or decided that it's either Michael Fassbender or Hugh Grant? It is 100% Hugh Grant. Okay. Yeah. It's not Jake Dylan Hall. Like, come on, come down, everybody. It is 100% Hugh Grant, who has, like, multiple on-the-record stories of him being awful to people in the way that Rebecca Ferguson described this person being awful to her. It's Hugh Grant.

Nobody saw life. I imagine that that was a pretty expensive movie. Who produced that movie? Sony. That's a Columbia movie. It made $100 million worldwide. That's not, you know, it's not great for a movie. movie that caused that much, but anyway, whatever. Zero buzz on that movie. And also that movie's stronger, which is he plays somebody who was

a victim of the Boston Marathon bombing and loses his legs and has to learn to walk again. That is David Gordon Green. But that in 2017 also, a little Bongjunho movie with a big old pig called

Okja. And when I say that Jake Gyllenha is on one in Okja, what I really mean is that he's on 21. He's on so much. He's just, he's doing the most. If you ever saw his unhinged performance in John Mullaney and the Sack Lunch Bunch Bunch on Netflix, which you absolutely should because it's wonderful, this is the precursor to it. He's just out of his goddamn mind.

Okja is a weird, weird ass movie, but I really like it. What a sweet movie. It's a sweet little movie about environmentalism and giant pigs. And then, so then, like, then it hits, now we're into, like, Jake Gyllenhaal weirdo prime time, right? Like, wildlife is a decently typical story. It's mostly a story about, like, an unfaithful wife in the 1960s, but, like, his performance. Well, an abandoned wife. Yes.

Because Jake Gyllenhaal, like, basically abandoned. Abandon's heard to go fight fire. It's complicated, but... It is complicated. You don't really leave that movie talking about Jake, but he's good. But he's very good in it. You don't, because Carrie Mulligan rocks and rolls in that movie. So good.

But Jake's fantastic in that movie, then the Sisters Brothers, then Velvet Buzzsaw, where... He's so weird. This was the press tour where he, like, sassed Dan Gilroy, and... Rightfully so. Meluncally is not a word. It is melancholy. But, like, Jake had such hate in his heart for Dan Gilroy when he corrected him, too. Like, I want to know the whole story there.

And Renee Russo's there, too. And Renee Russo, of course, the three of them had all done Nightcrawled together. So I'm sure René Russo, like, already knew the vibe between them. He's pretty funny in Spider-Man far from home, even though I don't really care for that movie. He's fun in it. The less said about The Guilty, the better. That was a Netflix movie released during the pandemic. Um, ambulance, you know, I, I, I saw ambulance in theaters, and I had forgotten when, until that movie started, I had kind of forgotten that I hadn't really seen a Michael Bay movie since, God, like, maybe.

The island. Honestly, maybe the island. Pain and gain. No, never saw pain and gain. Didn't watch the Transformers movie. So it had been a while. And then I'm sitting there and I'm like, oh my God, I forgot what it's like watching a Michael Bay movie. And it's like just the most obnoxious editing and pacing and camera work and all the shler shit, all the all the fucking drone shots and the kinetic editing and the fact that like nothing fucking stays still, the camera can't stop moving for half a fucking second. It's so nauseating. And yet, Jake Gyllenhaal gives a legitimately a

minus performance in this movie. He's really, really good. Like, genuinely so. Worth the price of admission if you take your dramamine and just sort of like take your motion sickness pills.

You cannot trick me to watch into watching this movie, Joe. Honestly, you're probably fine not watching it, but I'm just saying for anybody who's like maybe on the fence and like, I really hate Michael Bay, I think Jake Gyllenhaal gives a really, really good performance

in ambulance. And then, what's since then? He's a voice in Strange World, a really odd and misbegotten sort of Disney movie, even though I think it's not bad. Guy Ritchie's the Covenant. The war movie. Sure. And then Roadhouse. And then Roadhouse. Nobody likes Roadhouse.

We talked about previously in one of our previous episodes about how much we're both kind of grossed out by the UFC. Of a all. Katie reminded us on text that Billy Magnuson is in this movie, which does make me feel like I may have to peruse it. Be strong. Be strong. I know. You know I love Billy Magnuson. You know I love my big beef and cheddar. And, um, but cheddar is his blonde hair. Yes. But yeah, Roadhouse looks really bad. Also, I have no reverence for the original Roadhouse. I'm, that wasn't part of my 1980s cable movie canon

so I have reverence for Patrick Swayze but you can get Patrick Swayze in a tight pair of jeans anywhere you can get Patrick Swayze. Yeah, there were other Swayze movies for me. I had Dirty Dancing, I had ghost, I had

point break, there were movies. Listen, the opening sequence of two Wong Fu, like, you know that's not my physical type, but you watch that opening sequence and it's like, Patrick Swayze is the fucking hottest person, He's a haughty. He's a real haughty in that.

He's in another upcoming Guy Ritchie movie with Henry Cavill, Isa Gonzalez, and that's it. Fisher Stevens, I guess. I'm guessing this is not going to be... It's supposed to come out in January. It's already got a January release date in 2025, so get ready for some real counter-programming trash. I might be into it. I don't know. Guy Ritchie is a person who I don't really respect very much as a filmmaker, and yet I will watch a movie of his every once in a while if I want to be silly. I don't know. We'll see. We'll see. Where are you at with Jake Gyllenhaal right now in his career?

I think, you know, as much as we've been trying to grease the tires of bring the movies back in the pandemic, we need to bring Jake Jalenhall back. Back to what, though, is my question. What kinds of things do we feel like he's showing? should be doing. I mean, fair, but he should not be doing Roadhouse on Amazon Prime. There's a, there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a not inconsiderable is Jake jillen hall okay, um, vibe out there right now is just sort of like like our men okay, like is Jake dillen hall okay? Um, he does seem to be at any moment, halfway towards like sort of

dedicating the rest of his life to just like working on his body and I want him to work on his mind man like you are I think he's such a talented actor when he really sort of like delves into you know the peculiarities of a role

and I don't feel like I don't know why he seems to feel the need every third movie to take on a role where it's like what if I got the vainiest that anybody ever got in their entire life. And that's just my eye sockets. Honestly, like, yes. So, yeah, I think Jake Dylan Hall's wonderful in The Sisters Brothers, and maybe more like that. He doesn't, you know, we don't

see any, we don't see a single vainy bicep in this movie, and he's still wonderful. So, um, I'm into it. What else do we want to talk about with this movie? We've been talking about for quite a while. I think there's some avenues that this movie could have shown up in Craft nominations. I would like to spotlight the work of cinematographer Benoit Debbie. Sure. Benoit Debbie, who does incredible work in, like, this is, he's the Gaspar Noah guy, right? He's worked with, like, Harmony Carine with Spring Breakers and such. He has a very clear, usual aesthetic that is absolutely nothing like what he does with the sisters brothers. And, like, the way that this movie is shot is so incredible, and, you know, you can presume that some of its natural lighting.

Like, I think the most, like, singular image that was used in the marketing was like that burning house as they're, like, walking away from it. But the opening sequence of the shootout from far away and you just see these blasts of light as they're shooting towards each other. It's just incredible. The same year, Benoit, Debbie, does the cinematography for the sister's brothers. and Climax. That's not bad. You know I love Climax. That's not bad, I got to say.

Two movies that are so brilliantly shot, but look nothing like each other. Yep, yep. That's totally true. Alexander DeSplod does the score for the Sisters Brothers, I think, quite well. Beautiful, especially the ending. Am I mistaken that these are Melina Canonero costumes, or am I thinking of a different movie? I don't believe it's Melena Canternero. Give me a second.

I feel like I saw her name pop up somewhere, and now I can't think of it. It is Melania Canonero. Yeah, yeah. Cesar nominated, I believe, Melania Canonero for the costumes. A sudden surprise Carol Kane at the end of the movie. Joe, your thoughts, please. I mean, this was around the time that she was doing Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt. So I imagine it was a little bit of a wibankable.

seeing her pop up in the end of this movie and her not doing something goofy or strange, but also this movie ends the same way Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt begins, which is Carol Kane welcoming the protagonist into her home. Not so welcome-welcome. Right. Yes. Well, and Carol Kane looks nothing like Carol Kane in this, and not just because she doesn't, you know, her hair is tightly pulled back.

Right, right, right. have her, like, gorgeous mane of hair that she normally has. But you just know that voice. Carol Kane, we need another Oscar nomination. Yeah. What was it, Hester Street, eight billion years ago? Hester Street. She's so good in Hester Street.

She is. Joan McClints Silver. We love Joan McLan Silver movies. Very good. All right. Sisters Brothers, a very good movie, highly recommended. Go check it out. Even if you don't think it's the kind of movie you might like, go check it out.

All right. Chris, why don't you explain to our listeners what the IMDB game is? Every week, we end our episodes with the IMDB game where we challenge each other with an actor or actress to try to get to guess the top four titles that IMDB says they are most known for. If any of those titles are television, voice only performances, or non-acting credits, we mentioned that up front. After two wrong guesses, we get the remaining titles release years as a clue. That's not enough. It just becomes a free-for-all of hints. Sure does. That is an IMD-B game.

Chris, would you like... to give or guess first. I'd like to guess first. You would like to guess first. Okay. So I went through the realm of John C. Riley co-stars. I think I mentioned to you before we started that you were going to not enjoy this IMDB game that I'm going to give you. The same year that John C. Riley does, the Sisters Brothers, he does a movie called Stan and Ollie,

which he gets a Golden Globe nomination, where they play famed comedian duo, Stan Laurel, and Oliver Hardy. His counterpart in that film was one Mr. Steve Coogan, who we've never done before. Steve Coogan, four films, no animation. Philomena. Correct.

Kind of shocking. As Leo calls it, Philomania. Kind of shocking that he didn't get any Oscar attraction for Filomena. In the same way that, like, Michael Sheen got no Oscar traction for the queen, I feel like, in kind of a similar realm. And he was predicted all season, too. And didn't show up anywhere. But nobody really predicted Steve Coogan.

But, like, Filomena came on so strong towards the end that I wouldn't have been surprised if he had gotten, like, a surprise supporting actor nomination, sort of a la la Maggie Gillen Hall and Crazy Heart. You know why. Why? They spent the whole campaign trotting out the real Philomena Lee. They needed to be trotting out the real. Martin Sixsmith. Yeah, exactly. All right, one for one. The trip.

Not the trip, surprisingly. 24-hour party people. Yes, 24-hour party people. I've never seen that one. I haven't either. The trip to Italy? Not the trip to Italy. All right, so that's too wrong.

How are no trips on there? I don't like those movies. Your years are 2013 and 2018. Okay. So 2018 is Stan and Ollie. Yes, correct. 2013 you said Yes

Okay That's The same year as Philomena I'm just going to say this to be sporting I said there was no television And that is true This is a film But it's a film that is

Pretty much an extension Of a television show of his Oh And what was his TV shows Yeah So it's a comedy That is

Maybe I haven't seen this I feel like I tangentially know what this is I feel like if you don't know it right off of the bat From knowing that it was a TV show of his You're probably not going to get it It's a person's name Right And it's like he's primary on the poster

Yes He is the person who it is the person who it is the person's name. Yes. The last name is the same as a TV show from the 70s, I'm going to say, about a family band. Partridge. Oh, it's like Barry Partridge or something. Alan Partridge.

Alan Partridge. Yes, yes, yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You did better for Steve Coogan than I thought you were going to do for... You didn't think I would remember Philomena, just like the rest of the... Oh, I thought you would remember Philomena. 24-hour party people in Stan and Ali are more surprised. Although you got Stan and Ollie, basically, through the back door.

That's fine. You didn't go. Right, right. I never would have guessed Stan and Ollie on its own. Yeah. All right. So for you, because we are talking about the sisters' brothers, I went to the television program, the brothers and sisters, brothers and sisters.

Brothers and sisters, my beloved. Sally Field getting censored on TV for saying fuck in her amy. speech. The cast of brothers and sisters is pretty big. It is. Pretty big. And yet, we have done a lot of those people. Uh, someone we haven't done, shockingly, is Mr. Rob Lowe. Rob Lowe. Also, shockingly, no television in his known for. Of course. Okay. Yeah, Rob Lowe played the senator or running for senator husband of Callista Flockhart, um, brothers and sisters. Are you watching? Did you watch it all? The Floor, the TV game show that Roblo

hosted this past winter? No, but why are we just now thinking of asking Rob Lo to host TV game show? I don't know, but he's pretty good at it, and it was a pretty good game show. I've still got the last two episodes to go. It's very fun. It's essentially, each round is like, you know, when you go to bar trivia and they give you a handout and it's like 10 pictures of stuff and you just have to identify what they are? Yeah. That's the gameplay in this movie. And, or in this show, and it's deeply fun because one of the categories is like, it's all, like, every once in a while you'll get a category that's stuff that, like, is very much my jam that's like flags of the world or, uh, Oscar winning films or kitchen items. And it's just like, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Um, it's very fun. All right. Anyway, Rob Lo, known for no television, St. Elmo's Fire. Correct. Oh, it's the one with him and it's not the night we never met, but it's sort of like that. It's like, and it's not like one-night stand, but it's kind of like, that's the plot, I think.

I'm going to let you get it because I think you're going to get it. It's not the morning after. That was a Jane Fonda movie. A not very good Jane Fonda movie. I've never seen it. Way better than she has any right to be because the movie's bad. She got an Oscar nomination for it. I know. It's not one-night stand.

It's not about last night. About last night. Based off a David Mamet play, sexual perversity in Chicago, is incorrect. Oh, fuck you. You made me go through all of that for an incorrect. I hate you so much. I sure did. I sure.

God damn it. Okay. Tommy Boy Tommy Boy Also incorrect So you're getting your years 1983 1992 and 1999

1999 Is Wayne's World Wayne's World Wayne's World so happy that it's on his known for Yeah It's very good

He's really good in Wayne's World I got to say That was when he was sort of emerging from his scandal years and kind of

making his way back If we're going to watch a movie together Because I forget what you said earlier

that we're going to watch Wayne's World together I can't believe we haven't watched Wayne's World together. What did I say we're going to watch together? I'll remember it at some point. It's Wayne's World.

That other movie. Well, yeah, but there was a movie that we hadn't seen before that we were going to watch together. Whatever. Wayne's World, yes. Wayne's World's World's very good. Wayne's World, too, not so much. 1999 is the spy who shagged me. God damn it.

I really wanted you to struggle for that. Build as Young Number 2. Young number 2. Yep. So good. So good. Whoever thought that... Yep.

Rob Lowe should play young Robert Wagner. Yep. Should be running Hollywood. Yes. 1983, so it's another Brat Pack movie. He's not in the Breakfast Club. Um... 83.

Fuck off. Is it an... It's a very starry cast. I was going to say, is it an ensemble movie with a starry cast? Yeah. Big ensemble. I bet that this is a movie that a lot of people will be revisited. visiting this year.

Because of the election? No. Because of the Olympics? No. Because of a movie that's coming out? Yes. This is made by somebody that I don't... Is it a Coppola movie? Is it the Cotton Club?

It sure is a Coppola movie. It is not the Cotton Club. What was his 83? It was... It was one of the S.E. Hinton ones? Which one? Rumblefish. no the outsiders i'm so stupid i forgot he was in the outsiders i'm so stupid i'm so stupid should not have taken me that many hints um of course he's in the outsiders he's what's his face he's uh soda pop or something right his name is soda pop yes i should rewatch the outsiders i don't think

i saw it as a kid i remember did you read the book as a kid i can't tell you the school circumstances in which i did not read i was a gifted student. Oh, my gosh. I can't know. We're moving on. We're moving on. Wait, are gifted students too good for the outsiders?

No, we just had a different curriculum and it did not include the outsiders. What did you read instead of the outsiders? But my larger point of what I was, we read Hamlet. Fuck you. Fuck you. I hate you so much. No, we read Hamlet. Okay.

I reject the outsiders is one of the first things I remember just outright rejecting because it was about boys. Sure, sure, sure, sure. Understandably. Although the outsiders is also about boys expressing their feelings. Ralph Machio and C. Thomas Howell. I'll probably like it a lot more when I rewatch it. Also, Diane Lanes in it. Yes.

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