This Had Oscar Buzz - 287 – Harold and Maude (with Katie Walsh) (70s Spectacular – 1971)

Episode Date: May 6, 2024

The 70s Spectacular continues with critic and podcaster Katie Walsh joining us to discuss 1971 and Hal Ashby. After making his directorial debut with The Landlord after a career as an editor (including an Oscar win for In the Heat of the Night), Ashby returned to the director’s chair for what might be the film that became his … Continue reading "287 – Harold and Maude (with Katie Walsh) (70s Spectacular – 1971)"

Oh, oh, wrong house. No, the right house. We want to talk to Marilyn Hack, Maryland Hack and friends. Dick Pooh. All around us living thing. What sense in borders and nations and patriotism? I'm above morality. Take a chance.

Get hurt even for play as well as you. Hmm. I haven't lived. I've died a few times. Oh, Harold, everyone has the right to make an ass out of themselves. I'll let the world judge you too much. Hello and welcome to the This Had Oscar Buzz podcast, the only podcast literally playing a game of Fuck Mary Kill so that we can take over a Bavarian castle.

Every week on This Had Oscar Buzz we'll be talking about a different movie that once upon a time had a lofty Academy Award aspirations, but for some reason, or another, it all went wrong. The Oscar hopes died and we're here to perform the autopsy, and in the month of May, we'll be celebrating the Oscar era that was the 1970s. I'm your host, Chris Fyle, and I'm here, as always,

with a very special Daisy who is like this and not like that, Joe Reed. What a very nice thing to say. This movie's sort of full of little descriptors like that that you could pull out, so that's nice. I'm very excited to hear your thoughts on this.

I'm glad that I wasn't described as like your third and final date. You know what I mean? Or something like that? Someone from the dating service, Joe Reed. Right, exactly. A very, very disgusted priest, Joe Reed. Yeah, something like that. What a good movie.

I'm so glad I got a chance to watch this again. And as we are having in this entire May miniseries, we have a guest here. Please welcome to this had Oscar Buzz for the first time. I'm Katie Walsh is here. Hello. I'm so excited to be here and to chat about this movie with you guys. Thank you for coming. And I think we've been talking for a while about having you on.

Yes. And, you know, the miniseries was kind of perfect. We don't do guests all the time, but this we're doing literally guests all the time. And we kind of threw this movie out as an option to you. And we were talking before we started recording, too, that you kind of discovered this movie in college. I discovered this movie in high school. And we were both saying, it's like the prime aid to discover this movie.

Yeah. I think I just, yeah, I discovered it in like in college. I was a sophomore or something. And it was one of those, I love that this is a cult movie. Like they keep referring to it as a cult movie because it is one of those things where you sort of get like, oh, have you seen Harold and Maud? you have to see Harold and Mod, and it really reshapes your brain at kind of a young age as to, like, what movies can be, what they can be about, what they can feel like, what they can look like and sound like. And maybe that was just because it was the early 2000s when I discovered this movie and it wasn't, you know, so many films weren't as available as they are now just to stream any time. But it really felt like discovering this very precious art. And it still feels like that when I rewatch it.

Sort of like this perfect little gem that's just there waiting to be discovered or rediscovered. Because I had not seen it in a very long time. So it was really fun to rewatch. I feel like I discovered this movie in the most sort of bourgeois, like capitalist pig manners possible. The first time I ever heard about Harold and Maud was in the movies. There's Something About Mary, where it becomes a plot point. that she he's Matt Dillon is eavesdropping on her and she mentions to a friend of hers that Harold and Maud is like the best most romantic movie of all time and then he uses that

information he pretends that he also thinks that to like get close with her so that was the first time I'd ever heard of that movie so then every subsequent time is just like oh right the movie they mentioned and there's something about Mary and then I eventually saw it but like not to like years and years later and then I knew of course who Kat Stevens was. But the first time I had ever heard, if you want to sing out, sing out was when it was used in that T-Mobile ad campaign. Do you remember that T-Mobile ad campaign? Yes, because I was in a rage the first time I saw that ad campaign. I remember the people were really, really mad, and I hadn't seen Harold and Maud yet. So I didn't quite know exactly how mad and why how mad.

I just watched that ad on YouTube, though, as we were preparing. Do you want to take a guess as to the three celebrities who are in this commercial, this T-Mobile commercial, as the song is playing. It is one Oscar-winning actress, one person affiliated with sports, and one person who I think is also, like, technically sports, but is most famous for being like somebody's husband. What, can you tell me what year the ad came out? 09. Oh, nine.

Oh, my God. So that's post-C-ZJ. TeamMobile. Get more. Yeah. It's not the Catholic. Yeah. Post-Catherine Zeta Jones.

No, it's won an Oscar before Catherine Zeta Jones. It's on TV every day now, but doesn't really act as often as she used to. Every day? Yes. Oh, um... It's not Drew Barrymore. Drew Barrymore doesn't have an Oscar. Right, but...

Oh, Jennifer Hudson. No. You're in the right day part, though, definitely. What? What? Oscar-winning actress are we shading for not remembering her daytime show? She's had this, she's been on this show. Oh, Whoopi! Whoopi!

Yes. Oh, my God. Great. Whoopi? Who hands off to a professional sports coach who would have been like the only really coach that could have been in an ad at this point because his teams were so successful and also very Los Angeles. Hmm? Katie, are you a basketball fan? No, I don't know sports.

I'm so bad. It was Phil Jackson, who was the Lakers coach. I love how I'm like, I'm like mimicking what you're saying. I'm like, it was Phil Jackson, yes, obviously. Exactly. Yes. I love your Kristen Wigg impression. This is great.

And then the third one was a celebrity husband who at this point people had a positive association with, but very soon after they would have a negative association with. Oh. In 2009. No. But think like 2009. Like it's, it's, um. Oh, is it, uh, Sandra Bullock's sex?

No way. In fact, Jesse James. No. It's Whoopi Goldberg hands a T-Mobile to Phil Jackson, who ends a T-Mobile to Jesse James, all while Cat Stevens, if you want to sing out, sing-out is playing. Boo. T-Mobile. No wonder they lost the cell phone wars.

That is astonishing. It's so... I'm like... I've got such a physical revulsion to seeing Jesse James on my, like, YouTube screen right there. I was so mad. One of the great villains of our time, like, genuinely. Truly. It ruins that whole Sandra Bullock acceptance speech, which is generally a really great one,

and I'll go to watch it, and then half of it is about how lucky she feels that she found this guy. And he's all, like, semi-crying in the audience. And I'm like, fuck you. I hate you. Yeah. No, that was a rancid period of time. But anyway, so I came around to, so by the time I saw Harold and Maud, I was like, oh, it's Mary's favorite movie with the T-Mobile song in it. Not like, I knew better than that.

My spine is like fully at attention because I'm ready to leap through the Zoom screen. No, by then, of course, I knew it's sort of its place in in film history. It was very much known as a cult movie, but obviously by then I knew sort of who Hell Ashby was, and I was a, you know, Ruth Gordon fan from Rosemary's Baby and that sort of stuff. And by then I had seen Bud Court in at least a couple of Wes Anderson movies. So there's also that. And he's in heat. Oh, my God, he is in heat. That's true.

I always love reminding people that it's Bud Court who plays the horrible boss of Dennis Hayesbert in heat. Yep. Yep. He's so endearing in the life aquatic, though, when he's the bail, the studio stooge or whatever, the bail company stooge. God, we're certainly the only podcast that has done this many Bud Court movies. I know, I know. Six-timers club, Bud, you're only three away at this point. It's amazing. You might have to make some more movies. Maybe he's like an Oscar, like, bad luck charm. Yeah. Maybe. If you've done that many Bud Court movies. Just before we set down to record, I watched this morning the Hale Ashby documentary, which is called Hale.

I watched it last weekend. I will be referring to it a lot. It's really good. And there's the moment in it where they're talking about, Hale died of pancreatic cancer in the late 1980s. And they have footage from his funeral. And at one point, at the beginning, Budcourt, you know, gets up. And his first words are, hell liked me best. And it's so sweet and funny and sort of attention breaker.

But really, really good documentary. I rented it for three bucks on Amazon, and it was very, very worth it. Yeah, I just watched it last weekend, so I'm steeped in Hal right now as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Part of one of the reasons why I somewhat was very adamant about us putting this movie in this mini-series was to talk about Hal Ashby, who, you know, I think we recognize him as a fairly prolific artist in the 70s. I mean, beyond the 70s, too, because before he was directing films, he's an Oscar-winning editor, folks. But he makes nine movies within the,

or not nine, he makes seven movies. Seven movies in the 70s. Seven movies within the 70s. this is the only one without a single Oscar nomination to its name. Strangely, he only gets one best director nomination, and it's maybe less strangely for the most like Oscar friendly among them, which is coming home. But Bound for Glory was a Best Picture nominee, so it's sort of interesting. Have you seen Bound for Glory? No, but after I saw the scenes from it in this documentary, I will be sprinting to see that and coming home, which I've seen neither one of those two. It looks gorgeous. That Haskell Wexler. It's Askell Wexler, right? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Holy mackerel. And he won the Oscar for cinematography for that. Sure did. Because, I mean, rightly so. That movie is stunning. But you understand the complaints about the length of that movie, the pace of that movie. Sure. I kind of feel like that Best Picture nomination is fully by, you know, divine intervention somehow because it's not the most audience-friendly movie. in Hal Ashby's filmography. And, of course, after then, in the 80s, you know, he kind of falls out. Like, we never talk about or even watch any of those movies from the 80s. It's all about his work in the 70s.

Right. I don't know. He's someone like Mazurski, whose work I am always, like, drawn to by something within, like, my blood and bones, like, is, like, an artist for me. Yes. I love Paul Merserski's. Oh, I'm so glad. I'm so glad. I love, love, love Paul Mazursky. And you're dead on. They have the same, like, deep humanism and, like, humor and poignancy or some. There's, like, a essence of their films that I crave, both Ashby and Mazursky. And I don't know what it is, except that it's just them. Well, like, I think you could, I mean, you could describe both of them, but you can definitely describe Ashby as, a humanist filmmaker, but that's not necessarily the, like, first note. That's not, like, the first thing to maybe describe each of his movies, because all of his

movies are so very, very different from each other. But, you know, that- Which makes me think of people like Jonathan Demi and Curtis Hansen, like those filmmakers from the 90s and 2000s to I love. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, it's just his approach is so humanist and his interest in the people he's talking about and the ideas that he's talking about and how they relate to humanity.

It's always consistent no matter the genre he's working in the tone of what he's working in. That really, really appeals to me. Katie, Joe has not seen an unmarried woman yet. So for this series, you have to join me in badgering him to put it up. What year is an unmarried woman? Because I'll watch it for... 78.

Okay, yeah. What's our 78 movie? Oh. Is that Eyes of Laura Mars? Okay, so we're doing a live A live commentary for that, so, but I'll still watch 78 movies anyway. Unmarried woman is not streaming.

Oh, I know. Can I buy it somewhere? Yeah, it's on criteria. I'll just buy you a Criterion. It's on criterion, it's absolutely worth owning. I saw this, like, within the last year, and I keep, like, screaming at people to watch it. It's also, it is the prototypical sex in the city.

It is the prototypical girls. Like, all of those come from this movie, and it's just so perfect. And also, Alan Bates is so hot. The hottest man of the 1970s. I'm so Alan Batespilled after having seen women in love. I've just seen women in love for this miniseries as sort of background learning. Yeah. And it's, he's so freaking hot.

I became Alan Bates Pills. last year when I watched The Shout, the Jersey Skomelowski movie. Oh, okay. Oh, wow. That's a wacky movie, wacky, wacky movie, like British folk horror. But he's in that. And then I was like, became obsessed with him, watch women in love, watch unmarried woman. I mean, I'm also, I love Oliver Reed. So women in love is like very horny for me because they're also naked wrestling the whole

time. It's like, it's objectively horny. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's drying the sweat off of his body with, like, wheat. As you do. Also, an unmarried woman, the Conti score is my favorite movie score. Oh, yeah.

It's not available on streaming. You can listen to it on YouTube. I bought a vinyl of it just so I could listen to that score whenever I want to. Oh, nice. I adore that movie. Yeah. You were talking about sort of Harold and Mod, though, being the sort of the, if you want to do an Ashby, for this miniseries, we have to do this one.

But also, Ashby is the perfect 70s filmmaker to do for a 70s series. We couldn't not talk about Ashby, because, as you say, the peak of his career is that entire decade. And he's so sort of like a little unheralded, but also if you talk to like any of the major players of that decade, you're Warren Beatty's and your, you know, Haskell Wexlers and all of these sort of Robert Town, all these great filmmakers. and writers and professionals, they all sort of, you know, cross paths and have wonderful things to say. That documentary, listening to Norman Jewison talk about Hal Ashby, and they were literally

like, I don't, you know, I don't know if they had a romance, but like, they were in love with each other in some way. And he basically admits that. And it's so the way he speaks about him and he's eternally choked up about it. And it's very, very, um, it's very, um, it's very, sweet to watch. But anyway, the thing about Harold and Modd is, for as much as we sort of, we've talked about how the further back we go, the less firm a grasp we had on what did or did not have Oscar buzz, this one we definitely know because the studio was so high on this movie going in. What's his name? Paramount Robert Evans. And then they delivered the cut of the movie, and the studio could not believe what the movie was actually about and was, like, furious that it wasn't going to be their, you know, their big Oscar play for, you know, 71.

And that's, it's kind of funny how the movie then becomes sort of this, as we say, cult hit from that. Over the span of a decade, too, you know, back in the era when movies could find a second life. Obviously, like, the biggest one we talk about is Rocky Horror, but, you know, this found serious life. You know, Rocky Horror is a very different beast. Yes, yeah. So it's a great, it's a great movie to talk about. There's a lot going on in the story, but also, like, in the film culture around it as it's happening, which is pretty cool. And I'm sure we'll talk a little bit about, like, countercultural films at this particular moment and Oscar's relationship to it.

But, Katie, as our guest, we are in this series talking about this 1970s, obviously, and we're asking all of our guests, what's your favorite Oscar win of the 1970s? Okay. My favorite Oscar win of the 1970s, technically awarded in 1980, but for a 1979 film, is Sally Field in Norma Ray. One, she has an iconic speech. Yes. You like me. You really like me. Is that the quote? That was the 80s one. That's the different one. That's her second one. Oh, oh, that's the second one. Oh, okay. Okay. Damn. All right. Well, anyway, I loved.

Still. Yeah. Norma Ray. I just actually, another movie, not on streaming. I just watched it a couple months ago for the first time. I could not believe I had never seen it. And it is such a good movie. It's so hot and sexy. And she is so hot and sexy in it and part of it is because she's so mad and I just love how like crazy and like pissed off she is and part of the you know part of the story itself is that she is very hot because she's like the most desirable woman in this town but that um that final scene with um what is his name rob leadman the guy who plays the union organizer I think it's Ron Liebman, right? But anyway, that final scene where they're saying goodbye to each other is just like, yeah, Ron Liebman.

Sorry, it's Ron Leibman. Yes. Mr. Jessica Walter. Yeah. Like, their tension is so amazing. And she has this love triangle with Boe Bridges. And I just, I think it's like one of the greatest performances I've ever seen. And I just love it so much.

I'm giving my my favorite Oscar win to Sally Field in Norma ray right scooting in at the end I love a movie that has Ron Liebman, Pat Hingle, who was Commissioner Gordon on those early bad man movies

Grace Zabriski's in this movie The cast is wonderful I love it so much Yeah, it's an incredible performance too And like one of the most awarded performances is not just of this decade, but ever. She talks about this in her memoir that after she won best actress

at Cannes, they just didn't stop giving her prize. Like, she basically wins any prize for acting in a film throughout the whole year. Like, nobody else got anything, so of course she was going to win that Oscar. Yeah. The other

thing that you have to, like, I think contextualize that performance for people, too, even though it's not super available, so not a lot of people catch up to it as we were saying before we started recording a movie about unions i wonder why the disney corporation doesn't want people to see this movie um doesn't make it available um uh you know she thought her career was kind of over for a little while because she was the flying nun she was gidget she does uh sybil on tv and gets a lot of respect but it's still you know

tv you know tv then not tv now so was she was she was Smokey and the Bandit, that was like the year before. I don't know where it relates to... It's a 77. Yeah, it's definitely a 70s movie. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But like this level of performance that, like,

she kind of worked from thinking her career was over from being in these goofy TV shows to getting this mass amount of respect. You know, it'd be kind of like, I don't know, Joe, throw a, like, corny TV person out there. and, like, them winning every acting prize in the world. A corny TV person or a horny TV person? Both.

Corny TV person. Well, yeah, you know, if it's normal right, it's both. Um, we don't have nearly enough, like, corny, but, like, maybe, like... What about, like, a, like, a Catherine Heigall? Sure. Oh, that's an interesting. Like, when she was on Grays or something or, like, doing, um, knocked up. And that same degree of, like, doesn't really get a lot of respect for her ability and

that kind of a thing. That's a good one. Yeah. I like that. Award Jennifer Hudson for, you know, being an American Idol contestant. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sure.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. On a long enough timeline, Chris Flyle will bring up Jennifer Hudson winning an Oscar. I love it. Leave me alone. I love the performance. We're here talking about the 1970s. Joseph, would you like to tell our listeners about how they can get the full 1970s experience by joining our Patreon?

Absolutely. So in this miniseries, we are covering one film from each year of the decade that was the 1970s. Eight of them on the main feed of the podcast, and then two of them will be Patreon bonus episodes, which means for the full 1970s experience, you're going to want to head over to patreon.com slash this head Oscar buzz and sign up for this had Oscar buzz turbulent brilliance, which is our Patreon membership for $5 a month. You'll get two full bonus episodes per month, plus additional mini episodes where people will call in with their questions. Yes, we do have a hotline. Yes, we do. uh make use of it and uh also we'll have access to the polls every once in a while and you know we've had a couple a few patron selected films that we have talked about including the lovely bones including um molly's game was our second listener choice yes yes yes yes coming for this yes exactly um i think it's more than half of a fun movie but was it we we we we

talked about it. You'll come listen to us talk about it. We also, for the 70s, we'll be bringing you a full, uh, exceptions episode. Our exceptions episodes are essentially movies that 50, this had Oscar buzz, conceptual rubric, but got an Oscar nomination or two, so we can't talk about them on main feed. For the 70s, that adds up to the Who's Tommy, which was nominated for, uh, Anne Margaret's lead performance and nothing else, right, Chris? Score adaptation. Score adaptation and then nothing. I cannot wait to talk about Ken Russell. We're going to be talking about Ken Russell.

We're going to talk about Anne Margaret, Elton John, Tina Turner. Baked beans. We're talking about Tommy. And then later in the month, what's the date on the second patron episode, Chris? I don't have the calendar in front of me. Later in the month. Because it's 1978. We'll be covering our 1978 film, Eyes of Laura Mars, via our first ever commentary, our live-to-tape commentary on Eyes

of Laura Mars, which will just be me shrieking about Renee Abergen-Wa being essentially gay-bashed by this movie because it treats him as inherently suspicious because of his proclivities. Katie. What a wild. Yeah. I happen, actually. I know. Big blind spot.

I have to fill. It's also a way for us to sneak a second Barbara movie into this because she does the love theme for Eyes of Laura Mars, which is prisoner. And it is a bangor of a song. If you want to talk about a Bob. Yeah, yeah, for sure. So, yes, one exception a month, one excursion a month is what you will get if you sign up for.

This had Oscar best turbulent brilliance. You'll get the full 70s experience. And moving on, you'll be getting some really fun good episodes from us. Our excursions are sort of off format stuff. We tend to cover things like old Hollywood Reporter roundtables or old rando. rando award ceremonies like the MTV Movie Awards. We've talked about EW Fall Movie Previews, all that sort of stuff. A lot of good tangential goodness from us. If you like when we sort of like spin off into some direction that has us ending up on what was on MTV in 1992 or

whatever, then this is the podcast for you. So that is patreon.com slash this had Oscar buzz. $5 a month. As we often say, it is for, it's about the cost of a cheesy gordita crunch, and you can donate that to your fellow podcasters, not fellow podcasters here, the podcasters you love. Your favorite podcasters. I tend to not say favorite because there's a lot of podcasts, and we accept all fans of all podcasts, but give us, give us $5 a month.

We'll eat a cheesy gordita crunch on air. I don't know, something. Joe's never had a Baja blast. I am trying to get it. I know. We're going to do that eventually. If we get a subscriber threshold, we will do audio of Joe trying his first Baja Blas. I've had such a revulsion to Mountain Dew throughout my entire life that I've never been able to do a Baja Blast.

But we'll see. We'll see how it goes. A delicious blueberry beverage. On that note, we're here talking about Harold and Maud, one of my favorite movies. Directed by Hal Ashby, written by Colin Higgins. We'll get into it. starring Ruth Gordon, Budcourt, The Great Vivian Pickles.

Oh my God. She's so underrated. She's so good. She's so funny. The movie premiered right in time for Christmas. Take the whole family, December 20th, 1971. Katie, as our guest, you are charged with giving a 60-second plot description. Are you ready?

Yeah, do I have to, like, put a timer on? We'll get the timer for you. You have to do it Las Culturista's style. Oh, we do. Basically, we break in for 30 seconds and 10 seconds. Don't worry. All right. Then your 60 second plot description for Harold and Maud starts now.

Okay, so Harold and Maud. Harold is this young guy played by Bud Court who lives with his really wealthy mother somewhere in, well, they shot it in the Bay Area. I don't know where they're actually supposed to be. Are they in Northern California? Sure. More or less. Yes. So he is obsessed with suicide and death, and he keeps staging these elaborate suicides.

And his mother, played by Vivian Pickles, is just, like, so ignored to his stunts that she's, like, fed up with him. She tries to get him, first of all, she's, like, trying to make him go to the army. She's making him go to therapy. She also signs him up for a dating service. So she's like sending him on all these dates. And he keeps doing these elaborate suicide rituals. Can't take it. Damn it.

With all of his dates. Anyway, he meets at, he loves going to funerals as his hobby. He meets at this funeral, this older woman named Maude, who's about to turn 80. And they, she becomes this person, this guiding force in his life. She's quite quirky. She loves stealing cars. She teaches him about how to love life. She loves watching things grow. He loves watching things die. And they fall in love. They have an affair over the course of like a week. And then she tells him, she's like on my 80th. Well, she doesn't tell him, but she keeps being like, oh, it's almost over. And when I turn 80, everything's going to be over. And on her 80th birthday, they have a little party. And then she confesses that she's taken these pills. And then she's going to die. And then Harold freaks out. He wants her to live. He rushes her to the

hospital. Anyway, she passes away. He seemingly drives his car off a cliff, but it's just another one of his stunts. And then he walks away playing Cat Stevens on the banjo. So she has taught him how to love life. Fifty five seconds over. This is a Katie, you have been, it's always trial by fire. It's a classic 60 second plot trap. This is, this is typical 60 second plot. A full 62 seconds before the word mod was uttered. Classic. That is classic behavior. Don't worry. I was like, oh, I'm not going to need the whole 60 seconds. If this was, if this was me, I would have gone off on some tangent about one of the dates. Oh, my God. Wait, so the army, the army guy is his uncle in the film, right? Yes. So, and has only one arm because of one imagines a military incident. And he has. And he has, uh, uh, only one arm because of one imagines a military, uh, incident. And he has.

as a flap on his sleeve that if he pulls a cord, it moves up into a saluting position. He can still salute. I've never laughed harder at a sight gag. That's such a good joke. It's so funny. It's just, and this guy is like so, all of these people in Harold's life, it's all heightened. It's all very, like, everybody's very ridiculous. Everybody's very much, like, pushing their own corner of the establishment.

whether it's his psychiatrist or whether it's the military uncle or the priest or whatever. And it's all, one of the things that I found really fascinating sort of going through all of these 70s movies is kind of tracking the counterculture through these movies. 1970. I know I watched Five Easy Pieces for the first time for episode of 1970. And of course, that's the year that like Patton wins. And so there's this tension as it goes along. And so this is the very next year, and already we're getting counterculture in the best picture category in the form of The Last Picture Show, which is such a counterculture movie without ever mentioning it in the film, right? The film is very much— Like, intentionally tried to shoot it the way that he did to not—

It almost feels like if Frank Capra made a movie. in Texas, you know what I mean in a certain way? And yet the generational strife in that movie is handled in a very intentional way in a way that feels like, okay, so the counterculture has made it to the best picture category. And the way that like that movie dovetails with Harold and Maude in really interesting ways, I thought. And it's because I watched them both in the same day, maybe. I watched those two yesterday. I watched French Connection and Sunday Bloody Sunday the day before. So it's been a very sort of of big day, of big two days of 1971.

But the way Harold and Maud sort of, again, he's not part of a movement. Neither is, Harold isn't nor is Maud, but it's very much an explicit rejection of these paths that he might be expected to take. Go into the military, go, you know, into the family, whatever, the family businesses, right, get married, sort of, you. you know, do the things that your parents are expecting you to do. And instead, he turns to this sort of, like, hugely morose way of looking at life and then is brought out of it by not explicitly a hippie, but somebody who is very, like, you know, I'm going to teach you how to enjoy life and, you know, in a way that does not involve adhering to these. you know, the way that society has established itself for you.

It's also, I'm just going to throw it out there, with all respect to Nathan Rabin, this is your original manic pixie dream girl. No, truly, truly. This is the thing, because, like, as a Harold and Mod super fan, I do bristle a little, I mean, it is one of those things that I'm like, oh, when people hate this movie for these reasons, I'm like, but you don't understand. Because I don't want to appear like one of those guys. It was like sitting on my hands when we did Garden State the whole time because we hadn't, we hadn't, you know, announced what the theme was or that we would be doing this movie.

I was sitting on my hands to like, in talking about all of that movie's problems and be like, there's movies that do this well, like Harry. I don't use that term as a blanket pejorative. Like, I think there are movies with manic pixie, dream girl characters that I love, and this would be one of them. But that's, she's proto-manic Pixie Dream Girl, for sure. She has all of the aspects, right? She, she is quirky. She exists to better our main character. She kind of floats into his life and out of his life and is aggressively, um, sort of hustles him through these kind of things that he might not want to do.

We're going to steal a car. We're going to, you know, or we're going to save a tree. Yes, exactly, exactly. But I will say that. It. Yeah, well, like, so going back to sort of the countercultural thing, like, she's, she references, like, her old life in Europe. And we find out that she, you know, has a tattoo on her arm, that she's a Holocaust survivor. She's from Vienna. She's always talking about protesting and, um, that's true. There is a scene where she pretends to be a protester and then, like, Harold, like, kills her when she, like, falls in this hole. to, like, get out of the military service. But so there's this sort of, like, simmering anti-war thing in Maud's whole deal. But also her life quirky, I love life.

I love flowers and daisies and sunflowers and, like, I love stealing cars and, like, fucking with police. She doesn't believe in the idea and the limits of ownership. Right, but it all comes from. Like, I think whereas other manic pixie dream girls who are quite young, it doesn't feel earned. Her feels really earned from her life experiences. Yes. So I think that's why it does really resonate as opposed to great. Right.

It's her sort of at the risk of, you know, another term with bad film connotations, but paying forward this sort of life experience of hers to, you know, to somebody else. who is young and can carry it forward to, you know, their own life. Yeah. It feels but really authentic. Yes. She kind of lives by, I mean, not necessarily a code because, like, she's breaking every type of, not moral code, but societal code throughout, of, you know, she doesn't even call anything specifically what it is. You know, she's not talking about war or climate change. She refers to it as fighting the good fight, which sounds vague when it comes out of her mouth.

But I think with what we see what we know about her and what we see her do, it's like there is no, it's all connected that she would be fighting for this tree to survive as much as she would be, you know, in an active political protest. She's drawn consistently in that way that it's not. She is a full person outside of Harold, and she's drawn to Harold, just like she's probably been drawn to many people in her life. Yeah. Well, and she has all these sort of other people in her life. There's the person who, you know, draws her in the nude. And there's, yeah, exactly, exactly. He was the original Harold.

He's been gas-as-as-as-side. Exactly, exactly. I imagine she has some really fabulous gay friends in her life. Oh, yeah. That's the, that's the side sequel I want to see is the, the prequel. The two bohemians who were Mauds friends. Richard Pryor's character from, because Colin Higgins wrote the movie, I forget what it was. He was like, we should just have them.

There should be a prequel where he meets Maud, and that's how she learns how to steal cars. Oh, get out of here. That's crazy. I've never heard about that. That's crazy. I was like, that maybe sounds like a bad movie. That sounds terrible. We appreciate the galaxy brain.

Oh, my God. There's also something, shout out to the AARP movie for Grownups Ward. There's something really importantly, I think, intergenerational here that makes this somewhat of a timeless movie. Because I think when you have characters like Harold who are young and they don't, you know, understand how they fit into the world as they're told the world works. You know, we have movies like that all the time. Yeah. And, you know, all of these characters are obviously older as well. Maude isn't someone who exists in the counterculture as it might to appear,

like one of Harold's peers, you know. Mod has been doing this all along, and she has been breaking this societal code all along, meaning that ultimately these issues that he's going through, everybody goes through those things all the time, you know, throughout generations, as much as this might seem like a generational thing, the societal order that he is told to follow has always existed, will always existed. And by that, by her example, essentially, she is showing you can always break it.

You know, none of those, you know, you can always steal a car. Right. Well, I mean, there are more than one ways in which this movie reminded me of Fight Club. And the stealing cars was only one of them. But also the fact that they meet by going to funerals for people who they have no connection to is very similar to the going to support groups for elements that they don't have at the beginning of fight club. So, like, I would be very interested to know if either Chuck Polanick or David Fincher had any, you know, sense of that they were consciously sort of pulling something from Harold and Maude for that or whether that was an unconscious thing. but I thought that was very interesting. He's a very...

Harold, I think in nine movies out of ten, this character would be kind of unbearable, right? Poor little rich boy, can't deal with his success, puts on these sort of obnoxiously elaborate, you know, stage suicides that show absolutely no respect for, you know, life or whatever. And I think if this movie is made today 10 out of 10 times, It's cast with, and this is no shade against this particular person, but, like, it's a genre of, it's, it's, it's, it's a Callum Turner, right? It's sort of, it's somebody who's way too attractive to be, like, fully sympathetic for, right? It's this, and, you know, and Bud Court, God love him, is such a somewhat peculiar-looking person, a very sort of, like, specifically not, you know, devastatingly handsome or whatever. So I think we,

you know, we sort of lean in a little bit more with him and are just like, for yourself, I had such a crush, and I'm telling on myself so much this episode. I love that. I love that. Wait. You did? I did. I did. It's those eyes.

It's those eyes. It is the eyes. We were talking about in, uh, in Vulture Slack maybe somewhere, about, um, about, um, one of my favorite topics, which is Tim Burton's obsession with actresses with giant eyes. And, um, and, uh, and so I think. people were like, there's not as many, you know, male actors with big eyes. And my first thought was, wait, Budcourt in Harold and Maude is absolutely the male version of the Tim Burton big-eyed wave. Yeah, absolutely. I love that Budcourt is your ultimate, quote unquote,

hear me out. I mean, I have a lot of hear me out. So do I. So do I. I mean, my. All of mine are just like the hear me out. Yeah. Listen, I'm drawn to a dork. It's fine. I love it. No, I said, I celebrate. We all have our unique tastes, and I celebrate that. But I was going to say the thing, I think what really works, this is a segue into a topic I know we all want to talk about. I think what really works about him, about Bud, I mean, Harold not being super annoying is Vivian Pickles. Like she sets the tone from the jump that he's being pretty ridiculous. Yes. And just her reactions to him just being like, oh, Harold, and she says, what does she say? One line reading she has, I love, I, like, rewounded a couple times. She's like, I suppose you think that's very funny, Harold, which she says multiple times in the movie. But she's like, divertisman? Like she says it, he's doing the survey for the dating service, and she's giving her own answers the whole time.

Meanwhile, he's preparing to fake shoot himself. Yeah, she's like, I take offense to the question. Oh, my God. That whole scene where she's reading the questionnaire and has the women's movement gone too far? It certainly has. So good. We don't talk enough about Vivian Pickles. She's so good in this movie.

Chris, you saw Nicholas and Alexandra this week. She's in that movie. Do you remember clocking her at all in that one? I remember nothing but wanting that movie to be over for all three. Well, like four hours because I watched it on Tooby. Again, this whole minisperies, sponsored by Toofi. Yeah. Nicholas and Alexandra nominated this year or the next year.

I don't have this year. This year, I think. Yeah, this year for Best Picture. Yeah. What, I mean, like, Nicholas and Alexandra is one of the examples that when I say, the thing about the 70s that everybody thinks that it's this Oscar Oasis where they didn't do any of the things that they

hate about the Oscars. No, they absolutely did. They were nominating things like Nicholas and Alexandra for Best Picture. Yeah. Which, like Nicholas and Alexandria next to Last Picture Show and Clockwork Orange has Best Picture nominees. It feels just like a full joke.

Well, so the whole lineup to me is really it is all over the place in a way that I find really fascinating. It's French Connection which wins. And it's like It seems like a little bit of a peculiar winner until you look at the lineup and you realize it's very much the middle, the midpoint between, because it's up against a clockwork orange, Kubrick, Fiddler on the roof, which is Norman Jewison, speaking of the Hal Ashby Connection, the last picture show and Nicholas and Alexandra. So on one side, you have Fiddler on the roof and Nicholas and Alexander, these sort of big, like, oversized productions. One's a musical. One is a musical. this very sort of elaborate costume drama. And then on the other side, you have these very sort of new cutting edge, somewhat dangerous when you talk about a clockwork orange.

Last Picture Show had a lot on its mind in terms of, you know, like we said, sort of the generational divide and that kind of a thing. And then so in the middle you find this really kind of dynamic cop drama, action, hard-boiled, sort of like redefining, Super well made. Redefining the way that like a cop movie sort of looks for the 1970s and revisiting that movie. Oh, yeah, we really like Gene Hackman. Right, right. And so all of a sudden it's like this is the, you know, reach across the aisle, somewhat centrist choice. Watching this movie this week, French Connection, would not have been my best picture winner, but I have to, I think if you put yourself in the place,

of, you know, you're in 1971, I think a lot of that probably feels really bracing the way that that movie is completely unvarnished and completely, you know, excuse me, you know, uh, you probably didn't seem like a square if you were a French connection voter in 71 to, right, exactly, right. And I will say, it ends on a very, like, fuck cops kind of a note, which you wouldn't expect for the French connection where, like, they accomplish nothing. They're both, the epilogue is like they get reassigned somewhere. The guy who they're after goes free. You know what I mean? Like, they never catch the guy. And they've like, you know, fucked up all this stuff in New York City. And it's like, okay, well, for all that, they accomplished literally nothing. I mean, Friedkin loves making movies about cops who are bad at their jobs. Like, to live and die in L.A., he's fucking bad at his job.

Yeah. Yeah. Cruising. Yes. Like, this is. a theme he returns to again and again. Yeah. It's like, yeah, these girls are like fun and cool to watch but they suck at their jobs.

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry, go ahead, Chris. Oh, no, I was going to say Harold and Maud on this watch. I was like, oh, this is like,

definitely the, it was kind of a fuck cops. Oh, absolutely. Oh, yeah. That I realized for the first time because it's so easy to pull one over on the cop. The cops aren't like,

all of the other characters in this movie because I think also back to the point of why Harold is not so annoying it's not just Vivian Pickles everybody in this movie is so ridiculous and all the authority figures yeah and like you go

and like you read some of the reviews and people definitely didn't get that and where that point of view comes from especially Ebert too I was going to say you know who didn't get this movie is Roger Ebert oh shit I have not read his One and a half star review out of Roger Ebert.

For Roger Ebert, too, who does, like, is very thoughtful about everything. He did kind of just write this movie off when he first watched it. It was interesting. I haven't read a review from him like that in a very long time. Yeah. Especially one that isn't for, like, a horror movie, a genre that he, like, traditionally never quite jived with or whatever. Like, it's surprising that this particular genre, or this particular movie missed him so much.

Right, right. Because it's so easy to reduce this movie in a lot of different ways. And I think there is something just kind of pure and true at the center of it, even if you're, like, able to brush off the kind of late stage hippiness of it. But I, I was just going to talk about, like, the authority figures of it all. Yeah, please do. Which is just that, like, I mean, I think Harold is really... sort of oppressed by these authority figures and one thing that he learns from mod is just like not take them seriously because she has no respect for the priest the cops um i mean and it's not even that like all cops are bastards it's like all cops are silly gooses like i don't take you seriously like what why should i talk to you and like that is also like informed by

her history that is not explained but just alluded to which i think is so beautifully, you know, not... I love when a movie doesn't over-explain. Yeah. You know, when it just is, like, simmering there in the character and you can... This movie drops you right in the middle of this world, right? Where... And I think it's telling where you're not quite sure where this is taking place.

NorCal sounds as good as any, some sort of Marin County sort of, you know, whatever. But even, like, his house is a little bit of, like, an estate, you know what I mean? So it's set off. And I don't, you don't quite know where they're at, but that I think contributes to the heightenedness of. Yeah, it feels really like East Coast stately, even English. And then he goes to one of the funerals and I was like, oh, there's palm trees. You know, so I was like, where are they? Yeah, right.

Which is maybe why I got hung up on that during the plot description. Right. But I was looking at the filming locations and they did film in Northern California. but it does have a sort of like could be anywhere feel it doesn't matter. There's some shots in this movie that really take in the setting though in a real

that cemetery scene where it pulls back is really after that speech about the daisies too yeah like when it when all of those headstones are in close up you know that that shot that pullback is like so brilliant because it's like when you see them

in close up it's like oh sad, somber. And then in pullback, it, you know, very much feels like that Daisy's monologue that she said, where it's like, but you can find something beautiful and something somber, which is just like, it feels like a visual embodiment of Maud's whole world view. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's really beautiful. I mean, he is just such a incredible filmmaker. And, you know, he became an editor to learn how to make films.

but I think it is I think it is so much more than than just like he learned how to make a good movie because he edited a lot of movies. Like he just has a really unique point of view and visual style and sense of rhythm and music and like I love the montages in this movie and that shot I think kicks off like a song

sort of montage of them hanging out. But it's just it's this, yeah, nothing else feels like a like a, like a Hal Ashby movie. It's true. Yeah. I want to just... You brought up montages in the songs.

There's two... Well, there's one montage and then there's one shot. There's the shot of when Tee for the Tillerman is playing, and it's this processional away from a funeral that's just happened, and Maud is de facto leading this processional away. And everybody, because it's a funeral, is all dressed in black, and then she has that bright, yellow umbrella with the tan trench coat that, you know, today might feel so on the nose and annoying, but because Ashby is such a beautiful visual stylist as well as a humanist, that shot is always one of my favorites in the movie. But when you mentioned montages, the first one

that comes to my mind is the closing one, the trouble sequence, which just feels like that whole sequence, which, like, we'll get into me in a second, but I just want to say, that whole sequence feels like it has been, it's edited so precisely and, like, draws out such an emotional reaction that it feels like it is the prototype sequence for this type of emotional beat that has been hijacked wholeheartedly by things like, obviously, like, Gray's Anatomy. You know, like any sequence where someone dies unexpectedly and there's a song. There's a song, of course. Yes, yes, yes. The Cat Stevens thing would be so annoying today, too. Like, it's a miracle that Paul Thomas Anderson, granted 25 years ago, got away with it with Amy Mann for Magnolia because if somebody tried to do this today, Amy Mann and Magnolia's role

in that movie is very similar, I think, to the Cat Stevens. Yeah. Well, and like those were pre-existent. songs, and then there's, like, one or two original ones, just like Cat Stevens in this. That whole sequence, I will say, for, like, the, like, me loving this movie thing. Yeah. And, of course, it's like, I saw this when I was probably 16, 17. That sequence just, like, hit me, like, a ton of bricks.

I remember, like, laying on the floor, sobbing. Oh. Yeah. It's that line of where they're in the car. She's going to the... She's going to... They're going to the hospital, and she seems to just... like very chill about it. He's devastated already. And he's like, well, this can't happen. I love you. And she says, well, go and love some more. Well, first she says, that's wonderful when he says, I love you. She says, that's wonderful. And then go and love some more. It was what a great. And that's

the last line she speaks in the film, I think, right? Yes, it is. It is. And there's also, of course, the shot where it's like they're taking her away and she reaches back behind her. That's just like several knife stabs to the heart. It's very beautiful. I don't know. It's like that's something that's very foundational for me. Sure. That whole sequence.

I don't know why. It's just like it hit me very much. You know, I think there is a queer element to this movie. Colin Higgins was queer, died of AIDS. And you can see. Screenwriter. Screenwriter, I should say. The screenwriter, yes.

And he'd originally wanted to direct this. He'd written this when he was in college. And I think the story goes that he, like, failed out because they hated the script or something like that. And, you know, there is an element to this movie that I think still speaks to people of, like, the rulebook that you're supposed to fit in doesn't work for everybody. And, you know, you ultimately just have to get to a place of going by your own rulebook. And I don't think I would have been sophisticated enough to understand. that this is what that movie was saying to me at my teen years, but I can see

that now and see how this movie spoke to so many people in terms of a cult following, but still is a movie that resonates. And resonates beyond the idea of like to just continue Garden State

as the example against it of why there's nuances to this movie that make it hard to you know reduce it in the way that we reduce some of the movies that were so clearly inspired by it. Well, it's interesting that

obviously this comes from, as you mentioned, Colin Higgins, a screenwriter, and that Ashby doesn't have an authorial hand in that because this does feel like the movie that is most of his that feels most closely sort of tied. Tim, you know, his father died when he was very young and he grew up in Utah, and he sort of, you know, did not fit in, you know, in his environs there. And it just feels like this is, this especially being his, you know, his second film,

something that feels very much like a story he needed to get told. You know what I mean? And I do think it is very crucial that this movie, that, like, all of the people who are telling him, what the rules are are also themselves ridiculous because they're saying this is what normal is but they themselves are very unnormal. Right, right, right. That whole priest monologue where he's saying how disgusted he is by this relationship is just like, well, you're a pervert.

You're clearly like a dirty pervert. Oh yeah, the way he like lingers on like your young, nubile flesh pressed against the shriveled buttocks. Yeah, yeah. Oh, God. Can I also mention, this is totally an aside, and this doesn't mean really anything, but what a cultural moment for the name Maud right at this point, where Harold and Maud premieres December 1971, the B. Arthur Show Maud premieres in 1972,

but the backdoor pilot that aired on All in the Family also aired in December of 1971. So this was, this was peak Maud in our first. culture, I feel like. I love the name Maude. I'll do respect to Maude Flanders and I guess Maude Apatow. Although Judd Apatow was a talking head in that Ashby documentary. So I wonder if that's who he named his daughter after. That's a good theory. I like that. Yeah. Yeah. And now who is Iris named after? Right. Stanley and Iris. He really liked that movie Stanley and I. Judd Apatow is a huge Richard Air fan. He loves the biopic Iris.

Iris, about Iris Murdoch. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's it. I want to talk about this. Can we transition into the 71 Oscars for a second? One million percent. Swing back to Harold and Maud before we're done. It's, I started to watch it. This was another one that begins with, like, a billion minute long performance number.

In this case, it's Joel Gray, just sort of. to hoof in it. It really is. I did not find this ceremony all that interesting, though it is fascinating that how much cabaret already hovers because it had been released two months prior to this ceremony. It's the silence of the lambs. It's the silence of the lambs thing. And remember when the silence of the lambs was released before the prior years, Oscars, so it

was already like a buzz everywhere. Yes. Also, the fact that I like the. years where it's not one host, it's just sort of like a handful of Hollywood people in the 70s. And in this case, Helen Hayes, Alan King, Sammy Davis Jr., and Jack Lemon were the four people who sort of hosted portions of this. It's just really kind of amusing watching Helen Hayes, you know, get out there and host the Oscars in 71. I don't know. It's very funny. interesting Oscar year, though, in general, in terms of a lot of like the below-the-line stuff is going to Fiddler on the roof, Nicholas and Alexander.

Fiddler on the Roof wins three Oscars. French Connection wins five and wins Best Picture, but like, Fiddler on the roof was sort of cleaning up in the lower categories. You had theme from Shaft wins, best original song. Incredible win. That's a good win. Yep, yep Deserved it win I was gonna say What are they the other ones That it beats

Well, I mean It beats Bednops and broomsticks Of course That doesn't broomsticks The Marvin Hamlish song from the Walter Matho movie Koch

Which, sure Is nominated for What else? I do have to share This anecdote Because this whole miniseries I'm on Mathau watch Of shitty things

Walter Matho Oh yeah Chris is very very out To get Walter Matho In this mini series I love Walter Matho I'm just I'm just letting everybody know that he was indeed a bastard, even though we love him.

His quote about his competition was that he said that Peter Finch should win because Finch probably had the most difficult role because it's difficult to play a fairy convincingly. God bless it. Matho. God bless Matho. Never changed, man. You little son of a bitch. So there's that.

Yeah, Bathow's nominated for Koch. George C. Scott, a year after refusing his Oscar, they nominated him again. Sometimes they just never learned these academy members. They nominated him for a movie called The Hospital, an Arthur Hiller movie called The Hospital. Patty Chiavsky wins a screenplay award for this. Katie, have you seen the hospital? No, I never even heard of it. What if there was a hospital?

I just watched Network last night, and guys, I don't know if you've heard, but Network fucking rules. It works crazy. that works nuts I loved Peter Finch in Sunday Bloody Sunday I wish that's a good movie was about that character

because the movie is sort of divided in between the three of them and they're never all the three of them together in the movie it sort of you do go through stretches

where it's like oh I wonder what this person's doing right now and also there's a lot about like I didn't love it what's that

I should give that movie another shot I didn't love it when I watched I wanted to like it more I really love John Schlesinger as a director. Yeah.

It's, there's a, there's a monologue that Finch gives at the end of that movie that I think is really, really lovely and made me sort of wish that there was more of that in the movie. There's a lot of stuff in the movie about like Landa Jackson, like babysitting her friend's kids that I'm just like, maybe I don't need so much of that, but she's actually really good in it. I love Landa Jackson. For as much as I've sort of, like, raised the flag of question marks over her two Oscar wins, I'm like, she's really good. Have you seen a touch of class, Katie? No, but I was look, because I was looking at all the Oscar stuff this morning, and I need to see it. Like, I just, is it good? I don't know if you need.

We're here for you. It's kind of terrible. It's very bad, but like, give it a lot. I mean, she's wonderful. She's never not wonderful, but like, it's still a, even loving her, it's a headscrug. Oh no. I was looking at the description because I was like, I've never seen this. Like, is this good? I'm going to check it out. No, I'm sad to hear it's bad. Damn it. Yeah. I'm hoping it's very like, it's like the anti Bob and Carol and Ted and Alice in that it's just like Bob and Carol, Ted and Alice is about what it's about, but it's also about a whole bigger generational shift, like whatever. This is just like straight people are like, Isn't monogamy the most fascinating thing in the world and the most difficult thing in the world? Oh, damn it.

Yeah. But also a comedy, you know. Well, I'll let you know if I do end up watching it. And you'll enjoy it for Glendez. I do love Glendom. For Best Actress, Jane Fonda, who wins one of her Oscars for a Hell Ashby movie later in the decade for coming home, again, watching that documentary really turned me around on how urgently I need to see coming home. I need to see that movie very soon. I haven't seen it either. It looks so good though from those scenes that are in that. She wins for clout. This is the ceremony where she acknowledges that there's a lot to say and

she has a lot to say and she won't say it there tonight. But thank you essentially just being like, I know half of the people in this room hate me for my anti-war activities, but thank you for really hear it in the no in the video of it that's online but she was booed in the it doesn't surprise me she was hugely I remember I worked

in one of my very first job one of my very first jobs was at the public library and there was this really sort of nice kindly old man who essentially like locked up you know sort of wasn't quite a janitor wasn't quite

security as much as you would like but It was sort of like, you know, an authority figure, right? You know what I mean? Like that, he was the old man at the library, but he worked there, and he was always so very nice. And the one time, I can't remember how he got on this subject, but I was mentioning either a movie or a book or whatever, and I mentioned Jane Fonda, and he got so mad. And he was, like, still, still so pissed at Jane Fonda for shit that she said during the

Vietnam War. So, like, oh, like, it was that kind of stuff. Stuff, like, lingered with people. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. But she beats Glenda Jackson. She beats Julie Christie for McCabe and Mrs. Miller, and Julie Christie had already won. Vanessa Redgrave had yet to win, but she did not win for Mary Queen of Scots.

She didn't go to this Oscar ceremony because reportedly she thought Americans did not like her because of all of her political statements, too. As it turns out. We'll talk about that when we get to 1977. We sure will. How was Janet Sussman in Nicholas and Alexandra, Chris? Lovely. I mean, maybe the best thing about the movie, but I wouldn't give an Oscar to it. Certainly not over Clute.

Does this movie totally, does Nicholas and Alexandra bypass the whole respute and of it all? I mean, I sort of tuned out after a little bit because it's three very dry. Who voices the animated bat in Nicholas and Alexander is what I'm wondering? Janet Sousman shows up and says grandmamma, it is me, Anastasia. No, they add an otherworldly Rasputin. Yeah. And then in the supporting categories, the last picture show sweeps the supporting categories, Ben Johnson for playing Sam the Lion in the last picture show,

and then Cloris Leachman, who is phenomenal as Ruth Popper, and yet still is maybe my third or fourth favorite supporting actress in that movie. I think everybody, all the women in that movie are so good. Ellen Burstyn has a scene late in that movie with Timothy Bottoms that is so good. The one in the car where she's sort of dropping them off and then she tells him how she loved Sam the Lion

and that whole thing and it was so good. And she's so hot in that movie. Everyone's very hot in that movie. Everyone is peak hot in the last picture show. Except for Chloris, but then she was, She's intentionally doubty. And then you see her at the Oscars and you're like, smoke show. Yeah. And she's another one who has a great final scene where she also sort of, you know, tells Timothy Bottoms off. And then Sybil Shepard is like a lot more, she's a lot more of a character than I was kind of expecting. I was expecting sort of this like girl who everybody sort of places their hopes and dreams on. or whatever. And she turns out to be a real piece of work. That character, Jacey. There's a scene in which she has dumped one of the leading men for the other one. And then also, this is maybe

after she runs away with the one to go get married, but then, like, conspicuously, like, tips her parents off to where she's gone so that they'll chase them down. down. And I think it's after this. And Eileen Brennan, who plays the essentially restaurateur of the diner in the movie. You know, I love Eileen Brennan. Walks out the front door and sort of eyes Sybil Shepard in this very much like, I know what you did kind of a way, and like just stares at her way longer than is comfortable. And I'm just like, fuck, that's terrifying. Eileen Brennan is so good also in this movie. So everybody is bringing it in the last picture show. I almost

Chloris wins. I almost chose that as my favorite win of the 70s. Just because I love Chloris and I love that movie and I think she's like lovely and ethereal in her speech

and I actually she got like dragged in the press for they were like, why is she giving this rambling speech and her speech is so good. It's like she's super confident and like happy and I don't know, but I did get to interview Cloris one time. Oh, for what project? Uh, the Oogie loves. All right. Oh, yes. I love it. I love it. When I was in grad school, I was taking,

like, a 70s cinema class, and I was deeply obsessed with, um, I was writing about Sybil and Bogdanovich and the movies that they made. So I was, like, really into like, Daisy Miller. which is like largely considered to be one of his worst movies. But I was really into Daisy Miller. And she's in that as well, Cloris. And so I was just like super into 70s Cloris at this time. And then my roommate was a publicist and she was working on Oogie Loves. And I was like, get me into the junket.

Oh my God. And so I was like, I'm going to interview Cloris. And then I like convinced my editor, Rodrigo at the playlist. I was like, I'm going to get a Clorris Leachman interview. He's like, whatever. I don't, like, he was just like, fine. And I don't think I was, like, getting paid for it or anything. And I go into the room, it's like this hotel room.

She was there with her team and maybe, like, some other people. And she was eating, like, a huge plate of mac and cheese. She was, like, 88 years old. Hell yeah. And I was trying to hear. Don't give a fuck, Clarice, man. Give a fuck. And I kept asking her questions about Daisy Miller.

I can't imagine For the Ugi love, the Sisyphian task of the publicist having to tell everybody, like, please stay on topic. We're talking about the Ugi loves here. Like, imagine eating your life that way, that you have to have that job. Cloris did not answer a single question. She was just talking about her macaroni and cheese and, like, talking about, like, tips for a long life. And, like, she's like, well, you have to, like, take a nap every day. and you have to like eat well and like I had nothing like I couldn't even run anything in

the playlist because she just did not give me a single thing like I think she shared one anecdote from the set of Daisy Miller which is that she like flashed to the crew and I was just like okay um well this was a wash but I got to meet Carlos Leachman that's great and have some mac and have some and just watch her eat mac and cheese for like 20 minutes. And yeah, I mean, great, great experience. I wouldn't have changed it for the world. So. Incredible. Did you have to watch the Oogie Loves to interview her for the Oogie Loves? I think I maybe, like, half watched the screener. I, like, actually don't remember if I watched it.

I was like, I'm only asking her questions about Bogdanovich. I'm, like, so pretentious. Like, I literally should have been kicked out of that junket. I love that, though. In our revival theater listeners, we will be showing the Oogie Loves with Last Picture Show. Yes. Ben Johnson also, I have to say, wonderful in Last Picture Show, but has a really great speech that I wasn't familiar with prior to this. He has this whole lovely speech, and the thing about Ben Johnson was Ben Johnson had to be really courted for this movie. He was very adamant about only doing movies that families could go to, didn't.

want to be in an R. Old school, old school guy. This is a real transitional time for Old Guard like Hollywood and old stars in terms of like what they tolerated and didn't. Like Clockwork Orange, they had a hard time getting a presenter for Best Picture because there were stars who thought it was evil. Orange being nominated. They didn't, if it had won, they didn't want to by handing it out, seem like they supported the movie. Wow. So, Ben Johnson, who convinced him, oh, it's, I'm blanking now, but he mentioned somebody in his speech as, like, giving them credit for him being in the movie because they were, it was some fellow actor, some star, maybe even a director, convinced him to do it because he didn't want to do, you know, movies with sex and swearing in it. Right. All this, he ends the speech, you know, it's obviously very, uh, political.

charged time, and you have Jane Fonda who does that, well, I'm not going to say anything political. He does this lead-up where he's like, now, I'm going to say something. And it may not be controversial, or, you know, some people in the room may not like that I'm going to say this.

And he can't even get it out without chuckling, but he gives a pause, and he's like, this couldn't have happened to a nicer guy. And it's so sweet. That's great. good for yeah he's great in that movie holy mackerel um i feel like in a better in a in a more just world we could have fit the harold and maud and those two lead performances into these categories right there's room for them we can elbow out cotch and uh and i don't know if

venezza redgrave wasn't going to show up maybe she could just give her her spot to ruth gordon But I also feel like the anti-authoritarian nature of Harold and Maude, like, it makes it perfect for it to, like, go underrecognized. 100%. Yeah. Totally. Totally. And knowing. The Ongonon.

In the best actor lineup, you know, they're not going to nominate young bud court because the ingenue, I found out much to my dismay this week. Topal was younger than I am when he played Tevia in that movie. So are you saying you're past your Tevia years? Are you... I'm past my Tevia years, apparently. Wow. 36-year-old Topol playing Tevia in the Fiddler on the Roof film. And it's like you think about it.

And it's like Topo played that role for decades after that. Yes. He wasn't, you know, he wasn't playing it at 80. He was just too young to play Tevia originally. So going into that, so three films tied for most nominations that year, was Fiddler on the Roof, French Connection, and the Last Picture Show. There is a world in which, like, you turn back the clock, maybe like five years. Fidler on the Roof is probably your best picture winner.

Yeah. Like, it's a very sort of 60s sound of music, kind of like, that's your old school best picture winner. Yeah. There's probably no, you know, version of history where Last Picture Show wins, even though catch me on the right day and it might be the one I vote for. But it got five acting nominations. Oh, yeah. Why?

And all in supporting? And all in supporting. No, five? No, four. Wait, last picture show we're talking about? Yeah, it got four. Four, all in supporting. Yes, yes.

Yeah, nothing for lead for that. I was going to, sorry, I was distracted because I wanted to mention also this was the year, and the buzz was like there from the very beginning of this ceremony. This was the year that Charlie Chaplin got the, honorary Oscar. And it was such a huge deal that he was, you know, that he was there. He got the 12-minute standing ovation, so the story goes. And they present it after Best Picture is presented, too, which is kind of interesting. And once they decide that they're giving it to Chaplain, you know, he's ending his self-exile, they don't give out any other honorary Oscars that ceremony.

Right. It's the only honorary one that they give that ceremony. See, Stephen Soda, this is how you can confidently end an Oscars after Best Picture is if you know there's only one person the award can possibly go to, is how you do that. Still not over that. Still can't get over that nobody in production decided to just peek into an envelope and save themselves a whole lot of grief. Yeah. Sorry. Anyway. And other notes on this Oscar year before we maybe bring it back to last thoughts on Harold and Mott.

Still haven't seen a Clockwork Orange. That's sort of on my, on my big list. I wasn't able to get to it. It's one of the big ones. Clockwork Orange is one of those things that, like, you feel like you've got it. I got a-up or something like that. I got it. But, I mean, it is great.

It's probably the thing I would vote for in this best picture lineup. Yeah. Beddance and Broomsticks is a movie I watched a ton as a kid, and I don't remember hardly any of it now because unlike Mary Poppins, it doesn't sort of like carry on to, like, Like, I've seen bits and pieces of Mary Poppins a lot, you know, in my life series. And for, like, hybrid animation and live action, you know, Roger Rabbit is the one that kind of gets the credit for it, though. Sure, sure, sure. You know, elements of this and Mary Poppins.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Other films that were nominated, it basically was the sort of, there's a lot of, like, very 70s titles in this. Who is Harry Kellerman and why is he saying those terrible things about me as a nomination? for Barbara Harris in supporting actress Margaret Layton is nominated

for a movie called The Go Between which is a Harold Pinter adaptation also Alan Bates Oh, the score from May December is originated there. So I need to see that. Oh, that's what that one is. Okay, all right.

I need to see that if Alan Bates is in it. Also, it's Joseph Losey, right? Uh-huh. Yes, it is. Yep, yep. Oh, I didn't even make that connection that it's the May-December music. Okay, well, then even more so, yeah. And, wait, there was one more thing, I thought.

Maybe not. Maybe I was thinking. Oh, Anne Margaret nominated for Carnal Knowledge, the only... Oh, man, she wanted that, too. We'll talk about it for Tommy as well, but, like, you can tell she wanted it. And an inside Oscar, you know, she's like, I know it's between Ellen and Cloris, but I still really want this. Did she win the Golden Globe? Because I know Leachman did not win the gold.

Golden Globe. Hold on. Ellen Burstyn might have won the globe. I didn't think either one of them did, but give me half a second, and I will find that. Best Supporting Actress was won by Anne Margaret for Colonel Knowledge. She beat out Ellen Burstyn and Clarice Leachman. Also, Diana Rigg was nominated for the hospital, and Maureen Stapleton was nominated for Plaza Suite, which is a Arthur Hillen movie based on Neil Simon.

play. So there we go. I need to know what the hospital is. It sounds like a miniseries, doesn't it? It sounds like network for a hospital. Well, okay, that's true. Oh, God. Which makes sense why they want a George C. Scott for network, but because you already work with Chayevsky.

Your best actor and actress in a musical or comedy at the Globes that year were Topal for Fiddler on the roof, of course. But Court was nominated for Harold and Maud. So he did get that, Ruth Gordon was nominated an actress. So they at least got that. Harold and Modd was not nominated for Best Picture musical or comedy. But so Topal beats out Bud Court. And then Ruth Gordon, along with

Angela Lansbury for Bednobbs and Broomsticks, Elaine May for a new leaf, and Sandy Duncan for a movie called Star-Spangled Girl, all lose out to Twiggy for a movie called The Boyfriend. Right. Ken Russell's the boyfriend. Ken Russell's the boyfriend. In like the span of of a year and a half comes out with women in love, the devils, and the boyfriend. Wow. Heaters, except I haven't seen the boyfriend. I've never seen the boyfriend, but I've seen the other two. It's supposed to not be great.

Yeah, yeah. Well, two out of three aren't bad, as they say. Gene Wilder is also nominated for Willie Wonka and the Chocolate Factory. So Gene Wilder and Budcourt both lose to Topol for Fiddler on the roof, which, you know, youth and beauty wins out once again for Toble. Dang. All right, yeah, let's get back to Harold and Maude to close it out. I love this movie. It really is just a very lovable movie.

Well, and it's just, you know, I think, you know, maybe we could talk a little bit about its legacy. It's very obvious that, like, this is an influence point for people like Wes Anderson, you know, just the visual language of the movie. You see a lot of Wes Anderson in this movie for sure, yeah. Yeah, I think I love that it's like 91 minutes. It's so efficient. It doesn't overstay its welcome. Not that, you know, there's anything to overstay, but it's just like it's kind of a hangout movie in certain ways. Like there is a lot that happens, but a lot of it is also kind of them just vibing and sharing their stories and stuff. But yeah, I just, the production design, it's just so memorable. Like the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the horse sports car, like, the Jaguar Hurst, yeah, yeah, that's really something. And I think it just imprints on you in these certain moments, certain feeling, the music. God, the soundtrack is so good.

And I had heard all the Cat Stevens songs, or most of them, obviously, before I had seen the movie. But then when you realize that they're for the movie. Yep. It's just, I love, yeah, we mentioned before. I love Kat Stevens's voice. I love the way that he, like, constructs a song. It feels very much, like, very fitting to this type of movie.

He seems to have, like, his songs fit movies very well, I think. Yeah. I also, for as much as I certainly soured on Ricky Jervais across the span of his career, putting tea for the Tiller Man in the closing credits, of every episode of extras is pretty great. It's a reason to watch that series. It's surprising that we can't talk about this movie, I should say, for this show because two of the songs were written for the movie.

It's Don't Be Shy, which opens the movie. And then, obviously, if you want to sing out, sing out, which would probably be the nominee if it had been nominated for song, because they also, Harold and Maud also sing that movie contextually. Yeah, because we're talking about bed knobs and broomsticks shaft, which like, it probably wouldn't have beaten shaft, but, you know, it could have at least been, you know, the Elliott Smith in this lineup. Yes, exactly.

It was waiting patiently for T-Mobile to come a calling all those years later. Oh, God. And I'm going to have to watch that commercial after this. You definitely are. You absolutely definitely are. Yeah, we're going to have to put that in the... I'll put it on the tumbler. Yes.

On the tumbler. What else? Oh, we should talk about Ruth Gordon for half a second, though, because she's an Oscar winner before this. She's also an Oscar-nominated screenwriter. Three times. In the 1940s and 50s, which her and her writing partner, who I believe was her husband. Her husband. Yes.

Garson Canaan. I've seen none of these movies. I haven't seen a double-life, Adam's Rib, or Pat and Mike. Adams-Rib is a Catherine Hepburn movie? That's the only one that I've seen of the film. How is it? Oh, go ahead. Sorry.

I was going to say there's two Tracy Hepburn movies, comedies. Oh, right. It's a Tracy Hepburn movie. I think Pat and Mike is also a Tracy Hepburn comedy. Oh, interesting. And they were friends with them. I was reading her Wikipedia, which is actually, quite, she had a remarkable life, you know, as an actress on stage and screenwriter. But,

yeah, she and her husband were friends with Spencer Tracy and Catherine Hepburn and sort of like infuse these scripts with like their personalities and stuff. Yeah. So it's, I just, I mean, she's a badass. Like, she wins an Oscar for Rosemary's baby and she's an Oscar nominated screenwriter. Like, go off, queen. It is a very short list of people who. have won acting awards for horror movies, and that's really impressive that she did. One of my favorite acceptance speeches of all time, where it's the first thing she says, right, Chris? I can't tell you how encouraging a thing like this is. Which is like, it's wild that they considered so many actresses to play mod because it's just like, well, that's your audition. That's her audition right there, exactly. She's the choice. She's the choice. I just love her so much. I love rosemary's baby and she is a huge part of why i love rosemary's baby and um i watched um

there's a documentary about cinematography called visions of light that i saw like years and years ago i took a one of the few film classes that i took in college that was the first thing that they showed us was this uh visions of light and the cinematographer for rosemary's baby i am going to have to look this up because i don't want to get this wrong because i'd think it's william Fraker. So they were talking about the cinematography in that, and there's a scene where Ruth Gordon's character goes into another room to take a phone call. And by this point, you're already sort of suspicious about what's going on, what's happening. And the way that it's framed, you see her body sitting on the bed on the phone, but then she leans over to take

the call. And so, like, her head is out of frame, framed out by the doorway. And they said that they went to a screening of the movie and when that shot happened the entire audience leans to try and see around the doorway and it's like that shit is just

that's the shit you live for, right? Is that kind of stuff? That's the most true anecdote I have ever heard about that performance because like that's Root Gordon's energy in that movie. Oh and the whole I mean the chocolate mouse and the whole

everything that that character does and then when they like when the reveal happens she still is like it's not like the mask comes fully off right she's still she's mostly that character like it's not a big deal right right right so good um but what a great performance she gives in harold and mod too where it's you have to she's there's a lot of responsibility on her to be able to sell the appeal of this character that would be that would you know would absolutely draw in this this very disaffected guy and she really nails it just in every possible way so also i know i've been talking a lot about like women being sexy in this movie which like they are she's also got sex appeal in this movie like oh yeah oh absolutely unbothered confidence throughout the whole thing she knows exactly who she is she the whole first scene where they're in her house slash train car, whatever it is. She is hardcore flirting with him at all time.

She's like, here's my little scent art thing. Yeah. Well, but also here's what I love about, because there are movies about, you know, these sort of, you know, May December romances as it is between like younger men and older women. But it tends to be these like, you know, Mrs. Robinson's figures, right? They were like, what, four years? apart or like the same age or something in that movie like yeah or even if it's like an older woman it's this sort of like you know Sophia Loren type or whatever this sort of like you know 75 but a knockout

kind of a kind of a deal or like a Jane Fonda and like an 80 for Brady right right right totally totally and then what the great thing about Harold and Maud is like not only is it you know this you know 80 year old woman and this 20-year-old guy. But she's also like a short little old, you know, older lady. She's got her hair pinned on her head. She's not this like former, you know, socialite or whatever or model or something like that. She's not trying to look younger. Right. Right. And also I think it's she's not just sexy to Harold who like learns to find her sexy because of her personality and her point of view and what she teaches him. But also Glockus, she's like, I have to remind him what the female form looks like. The way she says that line, sometimes he needs to be reminded

what the female form looks like. And it's just like, and it's, oh, she's confident she knows she's got it. Yeah. I love that. And even when you see her and when he's, like, when she's naked and like leaning, like you're like, she looks good. Yep. Yep. Totally. I love that it's like, it feels very organic. That can. connection, but also her confidence feels natural, her, her sexiness feels authentic. And she's not trying to be something that she's not. Yeah. Yep. Totally. I also forgot that Budcourt. A woman for us to like look up to. I know. I forgot that Budcourt was nominated for a BAFTA up against, for most promising newcomer, up against

Al Pacino and Joel Gray. It's the next season over in the UK. But that's, that's good company to be in right there. Interesting that he got a BAFTA newcomer nomination and not a Globe one when he was nominated. Well, though I suppose for the for the U.S. for Globe, he would have been a newcomer for like MASH. Right, right. Oh, he was in MASH. And this is the same year as Brewster McLeod. Yes, yes.

I've never seen Brewster McLeod. It's a weird one, man. I did watch MASH for the first time and I was like, oh, Bud Court. Cool. I get to see multiple Budcourt movies for the 70s, so that's fun. Come on our podcast, Budcourt, talk about stuff. That'll be fun. He's the star of your podcast at this point.

I know, I know. Talk about the 70s with us, bud. That's all we want. All right. I feel like I've emptied my quiver for this film. What about everybody else? Yeah. Let's move on to the IMDB game.

All right. The IMDB game every week we end our episodes with what we call the IMDB game, where we challenge each other with the name of an actor or actress and try and guess the top four titles that IMDB says they are most known for. If any of those titles are TV shows, voice only performances, or non-acting credits, we will mention that up front. After two wrong guesses, we get the remaining titles release years as a clue. If that is not enough, it just becomes a free for all of hints. So Katie, as our guest, you get to choose not only if you want to go first or last, but then who you want to give you a name and who you want to give a name to.

So would you like to guess first or guess last? I want to guess last. Okay. So then you're going to be giving to someone first. Would you like to give to me or give to Joe? I would like to give to Joe. Okay. So then I will give to Chris and Chris will give to you.

Okay. Who do you have for Joe? I have an actor who is adjacent. He's in a Hal Ashby film. He, um, so he, he's related to the topic. I also just got to do a career talk with him at the Sonoma Film Festival. Oh. The actor is Bo Bridges.

Oh, nice. Who is in The Landlord. He's in The Landlord, which is Hal Ashby's first film. Yes. I just watched for the first time. Great movie. Wacky movie. I would imagine that the Sonoma Film Festival,

is a decent gig to pull. Oh, the Sonoma Film Festival, you guys got to go. It's great. I got to get myself invited to one of those California film festivals that's just like a vacation enclave with a film festival. Absolutely, yes. I like, by the end of the weekend, I was like, I cannot drink any more wine, please. I need like a tequila soda. I'm dying here.

So Bo Bridges, it's all movies, yes? It's all movies. Yeah. Okay. I'm going to guess the fabulous Baker Boys. Correct. Okay. Um, okay.

He really has gotten us. This is a wild known for. Is it really? Oh, my God. Okay. Okay. What else have I seen Bo Bridges in? The guy works.

He works a lot. He does a lot of TV, too. He does most a lot of TV. And it's all. I'm thinking, like, oh, he was opposite Sally Field, but that was in brothers and sisters. Or, like, you know, um, Bo Bridges. I feel like there's a movie where all three of them, all three of the bridges are in together. Um, they work a lot together.

Or they did. Like, they're very family oriented. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yep. But I will, well, should I, should I give you a, a guiding. I'll just say the only movie that Bo and Jeff were in together is Fabulous Baker Boys.

It's Fabulous Baker Boys. Okay. Because I was going to get blown away, which both Jeff and Lloyd are in, but not Bo, I guess. Okay. Is he, I feel like he plays a lot of, like, oh, he's the husband in this movie. He's a lot of like, is he in? Oh, go ahead. Oh, we mentioned he's in Norma Ray, right?

He is in Norma. Is that one of them? No. Sorry. Okay. One straight. That's okay. Okay.

I would just get your years, Joe, so throw something out. Yeah, I'll throw out the coal miner's daughter, which I don't think he's in, but okay. That's Tommy Lee, Joe. I know. But we'll say that's wrong. Should I just say the landlord? Oh, yeah, the landlord. Duh.

Yeah, the landlord. He's actually, that's actually not one of his known for us. Okay, so give me the years of the three that I'm missing. Okay, so 2008, 2011, and 2012. Okay, so recent Bob Ridges. Yeah, really weird. 2008, um, what are the movies that he might have been in 2008? Let's see. Frost Nixon?

I would start with 2011. Oh, okay. Yeah, 2011 is a more known one. Is he in the help? No. No, but it is a Best Picture Nominy. Okay. That you definitely forgot he was in because I forgot he was in this.

Is he in the artist? No, but that's a great guess. There's a lot of people in the artist where they're in the artist. Is he in the descendants? He's a human Hawaiian shirt in the defendant. That's right. He's a Tommy Bahama shirt. Yes, 100%.

Yep, yep, yep, you're totally right. Yeah, so it's, it's. Baker Boys, the Descendants, and then we have two more. One is a 2008 and one is a 2012. And they're going to be challenging. Are they like comedy, like, dumb comedy type things? 2008 is like a C-tier video game movie. Oh, God.

He's not in a Resident Evil, is it? No. It's a one-and-done. Wow. I didn't realize this was the cast for this movie. When you get this, I'm going to have to throw in. Is it like drive angry or something like that?

A step up from that, I would say. I'm so bad with video game movies. Was there a final fantasy movie made in 2008? No, a titular role video game. He's not the titular role, though. Oh, was it

like Max Payne? Yes. Max fucking pain. You got it. Never in my love. Bridges plays somebody named B.B. Hensley. I assume that his full name is Bo Bridges-Hensley. All right. The cast is Mark Wahlberg, Milakunis, Bo Bridges is third build, followed by Ludacris, Donald Logue, Chris O'Donnell, Kate Burton, and Olga Carlanco. Wow. And Nellie Furtado. What? Okay, well, now I'm going to have to see it for Nellie Percato. I actually, like, do need to see this movie. I've never seen it.

Was this? The screen debut of Nellie Furtado. Oh, God. Okay. All right. 2012. I'm going to give you... This is a non...

Okay. It is... This is a really weird movie. It stars... It's directed by and stars a married couple. Oh. And it's written by... one of the co-directors who...

Directors and stars are a married couple. Is it Wash Westmoreland and Jonathan Glasser? No. No, it's... I will say the writer slash co-director slash star hosts a very popular podcast. Not Joe Rogan. I really hope not.

No, no, no. But that level. Oh, is it, but that level of popularity? Yes. Yeah. So more popular than like Rob Shear and June, Diane, Raphael. Yes. Unfortunately.

Oh, Ashton Cucher. They were on a show together. Oh. Ashton Coocher was on a show with this person who hosts a very popular podcast. Does John Cryer host a podcast? Does... No, another show. Coffre Grace?

Host a podcast? No, it's, um... They were on like a reality show together. Oh, oh, oh, it's Dax Shepard and Kristen Bell. Yeah. Wow. Is there a podcast that popular? That's crazy.

I would say armchair expert is pretty popular, yeah. I fully admit to the outside of that. Bradley Cooper is in this movie, and... Judging by the production stills, looking absolutely insane. Didn't, wasn't the Bradley Cooper Maestro, like, I don't know if I love my kid or not. That was, Dax Shepard, yes, that was, yes, it was, because they're, like, friends. They're really close friends, yes. You would have to be to admit that on a podcast for somebody, so yes.

Okay. 2012, oh, God. So Dax Shepard co-directed this movie, wrote this movie, is in this movie, and it stars, co-stars, his wife, and also Bradley Cooper. And Tom Arnold, Joy Bryant, Kristen Chenoweth. What is this movie? Of course. It's not the one where she's like the lifeguard, right?

Literally called the lifeguard. Yeah, no. Okay. Um, I think this is... Do I know this title, Chris? You know me. I feel, I was like, I bet Joe has seen this, but I'm guessing now that you're seeing this. Kristen Bell, Bradley Cooper.

Dax Shepherd. Dach Shepherd. Kristen Cheneweth. The title of the movie is a crime. Larsony. Three words. An automobile crime. Oh, oh, hit and run.

Yep, there you go. Never heard of it. Never, ever heard of it. I have to say, this was a real thing. This was a really hard one. This was, I have to say this. Respect, Katie. Respect for you to assault the hard one.

But I think it's not fair for this to be on Bowbridge's known for. No. I am doing it. You better. This man has given us a lot. I would accept. I think they should put the landlord on here. Or Norma Ray.

Norma needs to be on here. Put Norma on there for peace sake. He's seconded. For Pete's sake. Yeah. That's crazy. Anyway, I had to give you a hard one. Oh, my God, I appreciate that.

It's good to flex my muscles once in a while. All right, Chris, I, we spoke briefly about Hal Ashby's career as an editor prior to directing and his work with Norman Jewison on the movie that he won his Oscar for is a film called In the Heat of the Night, starring Mr. Sidney Poitier. So I am giving you Sidney Poitier. Okay. this is interesting because for someone who has a long career like Sydney Portier, it's probably not as condensed to a certain period of time. No directing roles, so don't guess Ghost Dad. How dare you just jump to Ghost Dad?

It's the weirdest credit. It's one of the weirdest credit. credits in Hollywood that Sidney Poitie directed goes dead. What are you saying now? Sorry. Lillies of the field. Yes, correct. His Oscar went.

Guess who's coming to dinner? Yes, correct. In the heat of the night. Yes, correct. You are three for three. Ooh, give me that perfect score, baby. One more. Oh, I hate this stage because this is when I always am like, bam, bam, bam, and then I

start. You have gone a quick three for three and then floundered before, so. Okay. Okay. uh what's the what's the tony curtis one oh yeah yeah yeah the the the the the the maybe not i'm actually i'm not looking at it so i don't know i'm also yeah i'm not looking it's fun to play along yeah but it's called um what if it's in the line of fire

I'm just I just gotta get to the years I'm gonna say in the line of fire It's not in the line of fire I don't believe he's in the line of fire Well no isn't he like the other cop In something like in the line of fire It's not in the line of fire

At least I don't think so That's gonna drive me crazy Well the movie you're thinking of He's not a cop He's a criminal First of all And the fact that you're not remembering Tony Curtis movie.

No. The 90s movie you're thinking of. I'm not telling you, I'm not giving you any hints as to what it is. I'm just telling you that the 90s movie you are thinking of, he is not a copy as a criminal, and it's very insulting to me personally that you can't remember this movie.

Is it sneakers? It's sneakers. Yeah. God damn you. Sneakers doesn't show up for anybody's known for them. It doesn't, and it should show up for all of them. Um, Is it a patch of blue?

It's not a patch of blue. So now you get your year. Your year is 1958. So it's the Tony Curtis movie that I can't remember the name of. It's him and Tony Curtis. They're like handcuffed together. Yeah, they like jump off a train, their prison break. Yeah, it's like the, it's a the movie, right?

I keep wanting to say I'm a fugitive from a chain gang. Yeah, it's not the fugitives or it's not the, I think it's, It's three words. It's the, the, the, word, word. Blank. Is it that? Or you haven't, I mean, gotten to that clue yet. I want to, like, keep you dangling a little bit more, but you're already on, you've already got two strikes. So, yes, it's, that's the one you're thinking of. You're right that it's three words. You're right that it's the blank blank. I should have waited to get the title, so I could have had a perfect score. Were this a Cinematrix movie, it would be a hit in the category of number in title. Oh, the two... No.

The... The... Doesn't? Is it... No. No. The... How are we going to get this title for you?

This is what happens, Katie. We're like... Oh, God. I'm terrified. Just get the words. Getting to me. I'm terrible at this stuff. You guys are going to be here

listening to me guest stuff for an hour. Do you remember there was a movie in the late aughts with, with Daniel Craig, I believe, directed by Edwards Wick, that we can't do for this at Oscar buzz because I believe it got like defiant. The defiant one. There you go. Thank you. We can't do that for this at Oscar buzz, right? That got a nomination for something? It got a score nomination?

Something like that. I think score. Yeah, yeah. The Defiant ones, yes. Sidney Potier Tony Curtis. Exactly, exactly. All right. Thank you very much. Okay, give me something easy, please. I'm terrible at trivia. Always in the eye of the beholder.

For you, Katie, I have chosen for the year we are speaking about the best actor winner, Mr. Gene Hacker. Oh, okay. Also the like paparazzi photos that have gone around of this man who is fully retired just trying to live his life. Leave him alone. Leave the man alone. He said Gene Hackman and all I could think of was

oh, don't tell him you haven't heard about Miss Jean Hackman. I also love how the gay guys only want hot guys to be gay, right? They want Gillen Hall, they want Ledger, they want Colin Farrell. Here's what you'll never hear from one of the gays. Oh, girl, don't be naive. Don't tell him you don't know about Miss Jean Hackman. Ooh. From the Kathy Griffin routine. Oh my God. Okay, so I'm going to say the French connection? Correct. The conversation? Incorrect, sadly.

Royal Tenen bombs? Correct. Why is the conversation not on there? I know. Wait, what other what other Wes Anderson movies is he in? I don't think he's in another one. Oh, just tenon bombs?

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, okay, okay. Was that his last movie? No, famously, welcome to Mooseport is his last movie. Right, welcome to Mooseport is his last movie. Right. Welcome to Mooseport is welcome to Mooseport on there.

No. No. Okay, so you're getting your years. Your years are 1988 and 1992. Oh. 92. What was he in in in 92? Oh, like an action movie?

Mm-hmm. Like a thriller? No. It is a genre that can be both of those things. It's a genre that can be both an action movie. A thriller, an action movie. If it is this genre, it's pretty much always an action movie. Yeah, there are guns in this genre.

This genre? Yeah. Is it like a, like a robbery movie? No. It's like a revenge. Oh, is it like a Western? Yes, it's a West. What, 1992 Western, like Toonstone?

It's very famously the Western from 1992, yeah. Oh, um, um, um, Kevin Costner. Um, no. No, fuck, okay. Not quite Costner, no. Eastwood. After Costner. Eastwood.

Unforgiven? Yeah. Unforgiven. Okay. His second Oscar win, unforgiven. So, 1988 88. 88. Um.

I believe he's Oscar. He is. It is also a Best Picture nominee. Eighty-eight nominee. This is going to be hard. It is also, I believe, the first acting nomination for someone who has quite a few acting Oscars. Oh, Merrill Streep? No. No, but you're in the right ballpark. Right ballpark. Who has the same number of Oscars as Merrill Streep for acting? Well, not the same number, but the same number of acting wins. Yeah, the same number of acting wins. That's what I said. Same number of, oh, right. That's right. Because she has more Oscars than just the acting with. You're right. This is a woman? Yes. Has the same number of Oscars? Is it Helen Mirren? No. Very recently this person has very many Oscars. Has won twice recently? Pretty recent. Yes. Emiston. In 1988.

Yeah. He was nominated as a day of. Yeah. Recently has two Oscars. Oh my God, I'm blinking. This movie from 1988 was very much like a socially conscious period piece. Like it's made in 88, but it's about like the 1960s and 60s. Yeah. Is it something I would know?

I think you know. I would think you would know. Yeah, you've definitely heard of this movie, if you haven't seen it. Right, right, right. Okay, Hackman, 50, 60, socially conscious person who has a lot of the same amount of Oscars. Nominated and supporting actress for their first Oscar. Oh. For her first Oscar nomination.

Is it Whoopi Goldberg? No. Not Whoopi. Takes place in the South. Yeah, I assumed you would. Yeah. Gene Hackman is a build, a build above the title with one Mr. Willem Defoe. Willem Defoe is also in this.

Oh, gosh. Directed by Alan Parker, if that helps you. Oh, well, Alan Parker. It's not like a, oh, God, I don't, I'm really, I'm. It has a U.S. state in the title. Wow, we said that at the exact same time. That's unsettling, Chris. Yeah, US state

Mississippi Burning There you go I knew it was a Missis I was going to say Mississippi Massala but that's not obvious A very different movie Speaking of movies where everyone is sexy Gene Hackman and Mississippi Massala

Is a whole different vibe I feel like Wait um Mississippi Wait who's in who's the Oscar nominated person And Francis McDorman Oh okay okay okay Yeah yeah yeah yeah That's her first nomination

Wow wow okay Mississippi Burning Okay, great. I did it. I got there. You got it. Have you seen Mississippi Burning? I saw it like years and years and years ago. I haven't seen it. I don't think unless I saw it. I feel like they showed it to us in a class maybe even. Yeah, yeah. It's a TV rolled in on a cart movie, although it's very violent. But it's a TV rolled in on a cart movie, yes. Or it's a TBS movie, et cetera.

Also that. Yep. All right. Katie, thank you so much for keeping us. This was so fun. I'm like going. even though it's done like two hours. Classic us, yes. Yeah, classic us. That's our episode.

If you want more ThisHad Oscar Buzz, you can check out the Tumblr at thisheadoscarbuzz.com. You can also follow us on Twitter at had underscore Oscar underscore buzz on Instagram at This Had Oscar Buzz and follow our Patreon at patreon.com slash This Had Oscar Buzz. Katie, tell the listeners where they can find more of you. You can find me on Twitter and letterboxed at Katie Walsh, STX. And all my reviews and stuff, I link on Twitter and Letterboxed and on Rotten Tomatoes.

You can just Google my name or, you know, search my name on Rotten Tomatoes, Katie Walsh, and you can see my film reviews. So that's where you can find me. Joe, where should the listeners come and find you? Excitingly, you can find me at vulture.com now for most of my stuff. So I'm doing the Cinematrix there. Every weekday, we have a new grid. Come play with us.

It's so hard. We're trying to make it accessible to all. I mean, it's very fun to play. It's very fun. So long as it's fun. And then you can sign up also for the Gold Rush newsletter where I will be covering the Emmy Awards this Emmy season. So lots of fun, lots to do. I'm also on the socials at Joe Reed, read spelled R-E-I-D, doing my best to keep my letterbox updated.

And yeah, yeah, exciting fun times. Can I do one more plug that I forgot? Yeah. Oh, one million percent. I forgot my podcast is called Miami Nice. Miami Nice. And it is, uh, we call it a modern man podcast. It's about the 2006 movie Miami Vice, but we also talk about collateral, Tokyo Vice, Black Hat, other 2000s era, Michael Man films.

My co-host is Blake Howard, who did One Heat Minute. And so if you go on one heat minute production. com you can find our podcast or search one heat minute productions on your podcast catcher you can find me and Blake just babbling about Michael Mann with our with our friends and colleagues and sometimes Michael Mann himself so yeah anyway that's a podcast and you've been a great new addition to the rotation at screen drafts I should say so I've been very much enjoying you the screen drafts The screen drafts pool is a great place to be... I finally jumped in.

It took me a while, but I finally jumped in. Our friend Louis Pitesman and I have been trying to get Clay to let us do a certain draft. I'm not going to name drop here because we want to exert behind the scenes pressure. Yes, I hope so. Yes. Tell me as soon as we're done. We absolutely. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I'm Chris File. You can find me on Twitter and Letterbox at Chris V File. That's FI.O. We'd like to thank Kyle Cummings for this. fantastic artwork and Dave Gonzalez and Gavin Mepius for their technical guidance and Taylor Cole for our theme music. Please remember to rate, like, and review us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, wherever else you get those podcasts.

Five-star review in particular helps us out with Apple Podcasts visibility. So if you want to sing out, sing out with the five-star review. That's all for this week. We hope you'll be back next week for more buzz. Thank you.