This Had Oscar Buzz - 288 – Up the Sandbox (with Jordan Hoffman) (70s Spectacular – 1972)

Episode Date: May 9, 2024

The 70s Spectacular is dancing as fast as it can! And we’re spinning right into 1972 with one of the decade’s biggest stars, the one and only Barbra Streisand, and joining us is one of her superfans, writer Jordan Hoffman. This year saw the first films of First Artists, a production company that intended to … Continue reading "288 – Up the Sandbox (with Jordan Hoffman) (70s Spectacular – 1972)"

Oh, oh, wrong house. No, the right house. We want to talk to Marilyn Hack, Maryland Hacks and French. Dick Pooh. I cook, I sew, I squeegee, I spend hours waiting in line for a sale on baby sandals just to save a few pennies. I have one kid who likes Sicilian pizza or a husband who likes Leopoldovina pizza. One who likes westerlamas and one who's afraid of the wind. I'm an errand boy, a cook, a dishwasher, a toilet's brother, a diaper changer, a cockroachian, a cockroachia.

And you say I'd be happy if I did more. I think you're crazy. And you want to hear something even more crazy? I am happy. Hello and welcome to the This Had Oscar Buzz podcast, the only podcast that thinks the sexual revolution certainly has gone too far. Every week on This Had Oscar Buzz, we'll be talking about a different movie that once upon a time had lofty Academy Award aspirations. But for some reason or another, it all went wrong. The Oscar hopes died.

And we are usually here to perform the autopsy of a more modern movie. But this May, all month, we are diving into the Oscar buzz of the next. 1970s. It is our This had Oscar Buzz 70s Spectacular, our May miniseries. I'm your host, Joe Reed. I'm here, as always, with my kitchen fairy. Chris File. Hello, Chris. Not the kitchen fairy. A lot of casual 70s homophobia

on hand in the Barbara movie. In the span of 30 seconds, Barbara barks both male homosexual slurs and female. She sure does. She throws out a fag and a dyke. It's quite something. It was a different time. I'm not defending it. I'm not defending it, but somehow we know that it was done from the right, the guy made loving before he made this. Oh, it's, it's, the, the mores were, were all over the place. It was either that, or you just ignored gay people altogether, so we

probably preferred this. The other day, was it the other day, Joe, was it you or another friend who messaged me, like, what's the movie where Barbara Streisand just yells fag? And I'm like, I, I wasn't me so um but odds are now I'll be she's allowed to she could say yes so um as you've already heard listeners we have a long awaited guest on this episode we've been talking about getting him on the podcast for quite a while this was the perfect occasion to do so if only because ever since we did our episode on barbara strisand in nuts I've gotten regular texts about her performance in that film. Welcome, a film writer, Man About Town, extraordinaire, Jordan Hoffman. Hey. Hey. Let me tell you something, Chris and Joe. You may have a piece of paper saying that I'm nuts,

but you can't make me nuts that way, no matter how many times you sign it. Now, he can sign a piece of paper saying I'm nuts, but it's only a piece of paper. And you can't make me nuts that way, no matter how many times you sign it. That is... I remember when you first...

When you first... When I first became aware of this podcast. Yes. And you're like, you know, you're trying to pitch the premise. And I'm like, oh, so Barbara and Nuts, you're going to do that one, right? And you're like, that was episode six.

What are you talking about? We've been there. Of course we did Barbara and Nuts. For a while there, it was our oldest, like, the farthest back we had gone back in history for Oscar. Yeah, yeah. And then when we were talking years ago, I can't remember what it was.

And I'm like, well, if you want to do another barber one, have you seen Up the Sandbox? And I think at that time you'd said, no. I hadn't even heard about the sandbox. I was sort of very sort of woefully uneducated in the post funny girl pre Prince of Tide sort of era. Obviously, I knew about the way we were and hello dolly and whatnot. But there are a couple of odd. There are a couple of movies, as we will discuss in great detail today. Yes, yes.

That are somewhere between good and bad. Yes, yes. And, but up the sandbox, it's just so strange. It's just such a strange movie. And I'm just thrilled to be talking about it with you guys. I will say fair warning. Is up the sandbox good or bad? The answer is yes.

Is yes. Yeah, yeah. I was, it's, it's ultimately good because it's like, It's like they live, try on these glasses. Like you, anybody interested in movie, anybody interested in American cinema, anybody interested just like in things that are amazing needs to see this unbelievable time capsule and just enormous swing and a miss. It's like watching 70s Woody Allen. It's like watching sort of old Neil Simon type stuff. You know what I mean?

Like that kind of. It's, oh, it's like all those things, but just not good. And if it was not Barbara in it, and Barbara is marvelous in this film. I mean, you can't. She genuinely is. She's so good. If it wasn't Barbara, if it was just generic actress X of the period. If it was Catherine Ross.

If it was Catherine Ross, if it was Diane Cannon, if it was anybody else of the era. Right. Allie McGraw. Nobody would remember this movie. It would be one of those movies. I follow a Twitter account called, like, like lost films on YouTube. Uh-huh.

And I like to consider, like, this is my sweet spot. 70s movies. Sure. Is my sweet spot. And I think once a week, this account just finds some film that I go, how have I never heard of it? And it's always got somebody good in it. Yes.

It's got like James Khan is in it. I'm like, how have I never heard of this James Con movie or whatever? And if this had Catherine Ross, that's the perfect example, because she's the right age. Yeah. This would get, nobody would ever have known about it. When a streaming service like Criterion bundles, New York in the 70s, when they bundle a package like that and put 18 movies, they might slip it in there and people be like, what the hell is this? Right. But because it's Barbara, it's lived a good life.

And the version that's on, I watched it on Amazon. I mean, it's a good print. It's not a mess. It looks like a million bucks. Right. I watched it on Amazon. I rented it for $1.74. It was discounted down from $4.99.

It was $1.74. I was like, wow, they are really... I watched it on Apple, and I got to say, even probably the best this movie has ever looked, it's still like the worst-looking movie that Gordon Willis ever shot. It's kind of crazy drab for what it is. And, like, a star vehicle for...

Like, you wonder if there's some, like, influence of, like, I just wanted to look like normal life from Barbara, which to Gordon Willis translates as... Yeah. That's a really good point because there's the naturalism to it, that 70s naturalism that looks, especially the New York footage. I mean, you know, wandering around the Upper West Side and that park, which is up in Washington Heights. Yes. I was like, this seems very familiar to me.

So, yeah, this was all my. Well, you used to live near that park. Yes, I remember where you had that old apartment. The movie set around Columbia, but they go to a park that's actually further up, like at 175th. Yes. Hardcore New York nonsense. But you're right. Compared to Gordon Willis, even his Woody Allen movies, they have a real imprimatur, which is, I don't want to say lacking in this, but it doesn't have that Gordon Willis pop.

It just has good 70s naturalist pop. Yeah. It's, you know, it was definitely toned down. And I could imagine Babs being like, no, it's about real life. It's about womanhood. It's about motherhood. No fancy lighting. No fancy lighting, but only light me from one angle.

I'll have to be looking right to left, right? Well, that's one of the anecdotes that she has, at least in the, we were also talking, we'll, we'll get into the, to the memoir. The book thing, yeah. But the one thing I'm going to get into the, oh, for sure, for sure. But the one thing, the one thing that I did want to say, though, about the, the, it's the very first shot of this movie. There are so many baby genitals. It's true. In this motion, right there, right there, right there for you.

You know. It's the lost and trans. of babies is what it is that like opens on just like a little baby butt and then it goes and I was just thinking that's the seven that's 70s filmmaking right that's naturalism hell that's 70s like I'm an old man I have vague memories of the 1970s very blurry and kids were running around naked all the time back then and I was just thinking about nobody care the cuties the cuties controversy remember oh sure yes yes yes if those I mean those were right wing bad faith more morons that didn't believe what they were arguing. But for those listening, you don't remember, the movie Cuties, which is like, I believe it's a French Algerian film. I could be wrong. And it's about little kids dancing and they, they're 13 and they twerk.

That's the 13 year old twerking girls. Netflix is run by pedophiles and some of our friends in the film writing community who had written good reviews of cuties because it's a good film. It's not a masterpiece, but it's good. Yeah. They got just attacked by right-wing maniacs. Unable to separate content from... A hundred percent.

Just advocacy. You know, it was these morons like, you know, Dinesh D'Souza, I think. Dinesh D'Souza. Always a good faith actor. Dinesh D'Souza. Always sincere. If I'm not mistaken, he was yelling at Charles Bramesco. And that's a real alien versus predator.

He ever would we lose situation. All my love to Bermesco. I love the guy. He's a nice guy. But he's a big pain. the ace um so uh yes my point is this if the people who were yelling about cuties ever caught wind of the irvin kershner film up the sandbox starring barbara strisand they'd be like any movie in the 70s too because like babies were just naked they'd have burned the copper tone company to the

ground back then like honest god they didn't even know the gordon willis thing is wild though because there were steps in my knowledge here on this on this on this rewatch. I will be the only person in the year 24 watching up the sandbox multiple times in a year. Because on this, because I'd already started my barber watch after I finished the book at the beginning of the year. Oh, Chris. And I'd pass this one. So I'm like, all right, time to loop back to up the sandbox. Rewatch it for the show. And anyway, the Gordon Willis of it,

I was like, he shot this in the Godfather in the same year. How does it even like it doesn't compute that it's shot by the same person because this movie looks so drab and then you have the godfather which is like the like all of those like warm textures and tones to it he wasn't nominated for the godfather right right he like i guess i'd memory hold this that like gordon willis one of the best to ever do it was nominated for the godfather three but not the cinematography branch has some really wild omissions were like just these legends of the craft just did not get nominated for their best work time and again. It's so crazy. It's, it's, I got a point of conjecture. Let's not call

a drab. Let's call it documentary style naturalistic because it does have a, it has a texture that I love. Sure. Yeah. But, you know, I just, I'm just looking at at Gordon Willis in the 70s. I mean, for which he was never nominated. Wasn't nominated until Zilig in the 80s. wow it's amazing because he did clout and he did um parallax view which are and the godfather of course i mean clute and parallax view are just some of those beautiful i mean it's just it's that prince of darkness thing right it's like that that's what earned him the reputation it's those very shadowy use of negative space and it's weird framing all the president's men of course yeah and then he hooked up with annie hall with he hooked up with with with Woody allen for annie hall

interiors, Manhattan, Stardist's Memories, Midsominate Sex Comedy, then Zellig, which you say was the first time he got nominated. It's just insane. Yeah.

And there were a bunch of other biggies in there, too, that he did. Yeah. As far as cinematography is concerned, though, like, interiors is the comparison here, you know, like interiors, I would never call it drab as I,

you know. Well, interiors, though, had that very aggressive sort of color story where everything was very white and very, you know. Right. But there's still. like that Gordon Willis warmth to the image. Sure, sure, sure, sure. I will say, just sort of

fair warning to everybody. I watched this thing last night. I had taken an antihistamine. I definitely fell asleep once and had to wake up and backtrack to where I thought I was. I'm not 100% sure there isn't a part of this movie that I didn't see. There are definitely parts of this movie I watched twice again, like had to go back and watch again. So I feel kind of insane. I may have just sort of nightmared up some of this movie, but... It's a very weird movie. I mean, the plot of it is simultaneously simple and very strange because it has a lot of dream sequences in it.

That's its gimmick, really. And dream sequences that don't really announce themselves, where all of a sudden you don't realize you're there until like... Especially the first dream sequence. Yeah. Well, the one with the... Well, there are parts of this movie where I'm like, oh, Oh, that maybe didn't actually happen, looking back. Like, the conversation with the woman sleeping with her husband.

Right. I don't think that necessarily happened, right? No, that is a dream sequence. Yeah. And, like, and certainly the one where she ends up, she's kind of halfway to Liberty Island before you realize that, like, oh, right. Like, this whole thing is, is a fantasy of her. 1970s, white feminism, Beau is afraid, basically. Yeah.

Kind of, kind of, yes. should we do a very brief thumbnail synopsis of what the hell this this oh you're on the hook for that in the second jordan we'll get you for that soon enough um before we do though uh just because it is your first time and because we're doing our 70s miniseries we've been asking all of our guests for this series what is your favorite oscar win from the 1970s if you can think of it off the top of your head i'm so cliche it's annie hall i mean just obviously it's It's my favorite movie of all time.

It's tied for first place with my favorite movie of all time. Should you go to my letterbox, it is in the top four. And it's perfect. It's the perfect movie. I know Woody Allen is a complicated man, but he made a perfect movie in Annie Hall, and I watched it 700 times that I never get bored. It's an incredible, I mean, that's another one where just sort of the, the texture of the New Yorkiness of it really comes. Oh, yeah. I mean, just, and it's, it's just as a reverendant.

revolutionary film. I mean, anyone who's ever done anything in the romantic comedy space can cite it as its lodestar. I mean, and also just absurdist humor. People forget how silly it is. Yes. I mean, there's a lot of wacky stuff. I mean, there's a lot of stream of consciousness stuff. There's all those flashbacks to his childhood. Yep. There's a scene that's animated. People forget. There's always an animation scene. The snow white. Yeah, the snow white scene. And so it has that absurdity. and it has, but it has real, it has real heart, as they say. I mean, the relationship between the two and then it was just such, it was such a, it really

propelled the 70s zeit guys. I mean, it revolutionized women's fashion. It revolutionized just the way New York was filmed. It's a, it's a big, it's a damn big movie. And like, you know, a lot of people cited as, I mean, Larry David and Tina Fey and all these people will, will point to it as their most important movie. And it just comes up. A lot. Like, let's put, like, you know, a lot, there are moments when I just don't even realize I'm quoting that film, you know. Sure. Yes. A lot of funny stuff. So I think that's my favorite. That's a great choice. I like that. I mean, there are, uh, just as best picture and then deservedly best, uh, best actress as well. Yeah. Yeah. Those are the, he got nominated for lead actor, I would imagine, but no supporting nominations for that. I think that's the only one that he lost in that ceremony. Oh, interesting. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. If I'm remembering correctly. Tony Roberts didn't get the nomination for Best Supporting.

Tony Roberts is really fucking funny in that movie. Jordan, you're also especially off the hook for everybody that we ask this question to. Is afraid to make the, like, the finger quotes obvious choice, but everybody's picked something different so far. Yeah. So it's like, I think that speaks to kind of the ubiquity of the 70s Oscar wins, which is kind of what we're also doing here.

Like, no one's going to come in here and be like, well, my favorite is the paper chase or something, you know, where it's like, I keep saying the thing about the 70s is that they're also doing, as lauded as this era is for the Oscars, they're also still doing the things that today we, you know, look down our nose at the Oscars for doing, you know, nominating the Belfast, et cetera, et cetera. Yeah, there are still some, you do look sometimes, and you look at the top five and you're like, four are brilliant and one is like, eh? Yeah, and one is Nicholas and Alexandra. And you look at it, and it, as the decade goes on, like that's when you sort of later in the decade, you get those lineups like 75, 76 where it's just like, oh, wow, just like every movie in here is legendary.

And well, I mean, it's a time, I mean, it's funny. I happened to just within the last month or so, I introduced Chinatown at the Paris Theater in New York. Nice. And, you know, I was just doing a little bit of research about it and that time period. And there's a reason why film buffs are just obsessed with this little stretch of time. And it's simply because all these resources went to these people who were just like going to do it right. I mean, it eventually collapsed.

I mean, what's his name? Robert Evans collapsed in a mountain of cocaine and was never heard from again. But for a little while, he pulled the strings. And it wasn't just Paramount. A few of the other studios as well, they're just like, let's put real money behind a project like Chinatown and the Godfather. The money grubbing psychos still wanted to make movies was the thing. And that's the thing that a lot of people talk about nowadays is that the people, the money grabbing psychos now are tech billionaires who don't. give a shit about movies. They don't give a shit. Who want to dismantle culture. Whereas at least we had

these sort of like vain, glorious moguls back then who fancied themselves artists, even if they weren't, but they wanted to make movies. That's exactly right. Like you had people like Robert Evans moving into the mansion that was once owned by, I forget who, Mary Pickford or whoever the hell it was. Sure. Sure. You know, he, he did fancy himself an artist. You're right. David Zazlab wants to reboot Harry Potter, which is absurd. Right. Because of, the quote is, you know, it's an under, it's an under-exploited IP. Yeah. Which is

sure. First of all, learn what words mean. None of those words mean what do you think they mean. Second of all, right. Underexploited, an entire multi-billion dollar grossing franchise. Right. Yeah. A fucking theme part. It's a theme park. You can go to Harry Potter later right now in where

the hell it is, Florida. But that's what he says. And they are eventually going, and then of course it's funny because what's her name, Rowling is just like this monster on social media, just behaving like a lunatic and who just like won't, she's too rich. They can't shut her up. It's so funny.

In a way, I'm not going to say I respect rowling, but I respect the implacable object and the unstoppable force. The unstoppable force is Warner Brothers Discovery wanting to exploit an IP, and the implacable object is rowling just like saying, I'm so rich that nobody can tell me what

do and they're going to reboot harry potter for television it's going to happen yeah and it's going to be a train wreck yes it's going to be a disaster because whoever you know whoever gets on board is going to be tart and feathered and it's just it's just they're going to destroy several dozens of children's lives whoever they're filming with exactly well and also there's eight god damn harry potter movies we don't need another tit they're not that old also as those of us who lived through the Star Wars, the first Star Wars prequels, we know that, like, revisiting this, you know, this world that you used to revere and bringing it back for another go-round. Like, it's not, it doesn't feel the same, guys. Like, it's going to,

it's going to hit people wrong. You know, what's a good example of this? Tim Burton and Johnny Depp did Wonka. Yes. And it was too soon. Right. And the Salomei Wonka, which wasn't a Blockbuster. It did well, though. That was a good movie. Yeah. Because it was long enough ago. Remake Harry Potter when Rowling is dead and when Radcliffe is 66 years old. When Radcliffe is playing Dumbledore, you mean? Yeah. Let Radcliffe play Dumbledore. Then you know it's time. Well, and then the people who make it can sort of draw upon the, you know, the social inferences that you can make of like, isn't it interesting that this magical world like probably does have some

sort of allusion to inclusion in real life and that kind of thing. You know what I mean? Then all of a sudden you've at least made it interesting. Jordan, I'm glad that I had you on here to support me in my insistence that Wonka is good. Wonka's great. Thank you.

Who doesn't like Wanca? The only people who didn't like Wonka were people who didn't see Wonka. Thank you, Jordan. How could you not like Wonka? What's wrong with you? Chris doesn't like Timmy and he doesn't want to admit it. I like Timothy Salomey. Just because I criticize one performance and one movie separately, though I said he was

fine. Wonka's better than Dune. I don't like Timothy's. I'll take Wonka over to the Oh, now that is. I see, this is the Jordan that I like. This is Jordan throwing out. This is very good.

Dune is great. You know when Dune is great? When you can't get to bed and you run out of Ambien, that's when you can tune into Dune and get some Z's. What a, soon. The second one's better than the first one. Jordan, I've always said about you, you belong on taxi TV, and I hope you take that as the compliment with which I

If I've got a family in from out of town, I want them to get into a taxi. And Sandy Kenyon, God bless and go, you know, get out of you. Go with it. But, you know, you're the one I want on taxi TV. I appreciate that. I appreciate it. All right. Chris, before we get into the plot of Up the Sandbox, do you want to tell our listeners

why they should be subscribing to our Patreon? Well, to start with, it's ours. And you want to support us. You love us. Over at our Patreon, we call it This Had Oscar Buzz Turbulent Brilliance. It's only $5 a month to join us. Regularly, you're going to be getting

two bonus episodes a month, and the same is true in the 70s Spectacular in the month of May. The first episode, we call an exception. That is a movie that fits that this had Oscar Buzz rubric but managed to score a nomination or two. And this month, we will be doing Tommy.

Ken Russell's The Who's Tommy. Weird movie. What a fucking weird. And Margaret, and Margaret in tight pants rolling around in baked beans. It's something you don't expect to see every day, but it's quite a motion picture. You want to hear us talk about Tommy this month. The other exceptions we've done, we've done Vanilla Sky, we've done Charlie Wilson's War, the lovely blown's pleasant fill. It's a good time.

second episode every month we call it an exception this is like a deep dive into different oscar ephemera we love like we talk about eW fall movie previews we recapped an old MTV movie awards we talk about Hollywood Reporter roundtables what's the exception this month for a 70 spectacular we're going all out we're recording our first commentary track for none other than eyes of laura mars Jordan. Irvin Kershner, coming back with a vengeance. Yep.

Go ahead. Double Kersh. Double Kersh. Let me, wait, Chris, so you're telling me, if I wanted to sign up to the Patreon, it's got to be like, what, 1899 or something? Because that's a pretty good deal. It's $5. What if I told you, Jordan Hoffman, that it was $5 a month?

You know, that's like a trip to the coffee shop. Exactly. We say it's the cost of a cheesy gordita crunch. Anybody who's not signing up for that is out of their minds. Crazy. Jordan, I can't, I can't let you come here and not tell me your thoughts on Barbara Streisand's prisoner from Eyes of Laura Mars, the like epic. Her song, the love theme from Eyes of Laura Mars prisoner. Oh, I don't know.

You've got to get on it. You've got to get on it. I'm telling you you're going to live. I don't particularly have a comment on that. I have so much to say about Barbara, but not about Eyes of Laura Mars. I know that they, they offered her the part. They did. She said no, yes.

Yep. Could you imagine her and Faye Dunaway? Said no. In the same room. When I, I just mentioned this thing on Chinatown. And I don't know if you read Craig Watson's book, the big goodbye, which is all about Chinatown and the making of Chinatown. Oh, I haven't.

No, it sounds interesting, though. It's very beautiful. It's very beautiful. It's great Robert Town stories. Well, there's great stories. And, you know, I'm not one of the, I love the movie Chinatown, but I'm not one of these people. It's like, Every movie, every album needs a book about it, you know?

Right, right, right. Chinatown does need a book about it because it represents so much. Faye Dunaway was such a diva at that point in her career. And she was so angry at the production of China. She hated Polanski so much. She refused to flush her own toilet. Oh, wow. Wow.

No one's doing it like Faye anymore. Can't wait to talk about Faye. I'm getting over a cold I'm not just coughing at the concept that she apparently would go into her trailer do her business and storm out and make somebody else flush out

and even Nicholson was like I don't know what the hell's wrong with that lady but one of the more universally unliked personalities in Hollywood I remember that Betty Davis interview on the Tonight Show where she just says nobody likes that woman

and because she's impossible to get along with. Yeah, that was the thing when she and Warren Bates with the whole, which I'm sure, you know, is probably, you still wake up night sweats about the moonlight Lala Land mix. Oh, my God, yes. I remember there was a great deep dive and even the Hollywood Reporter of Variety afterwards when they were trying to do a moment-by-moment TikTok of what went wrong. And it was, what's the name of that very famous older public.

assist who's now canceled because she was involved with Weinstein. Oh, I know who you're talking about. Who had all the luncheons. Yeah, she had the luncheons. I've even met this woman once or twice. Katie would know. It's, oh. Yes, Katie has a lot of opinions on her.

We'll think of it. Madam, it doesn't matter what her name is, but she was interviewed and. Peggy Siegel. It was Peggy Siegel. Peggy Siegel had a quote that was so funny. It was like, um, she, She, like, apparently had some intel on what went on. Because, well, according to Warren, it was X, Y, Z.

Well, what was it according to Faye? Nobody can talk to Faye. Faye is impossible. I thought the anecdote was, like, as everything was going on and people were trying to figure stuff out backstage, she was just, like, sitting there with a bowl of cash shoes. Yeah, I think she'd have split. She's like, I don't care about this. Eyes of Laura Mars. Interesting movie.

I, you know, I like it. It's not a wild time. Very 70s. Very, very 70s, New York. Yes. All right. Jordan, before we commission you to sum up the plot of Up the Sandbox in 60 seconds, I'm going to give the rundown of the particulars of this movie. We're talking about 1972's Up the Sandbox, directed by Irvin Kershner, written by Paul Zendell, the children's literature author. I'll get into it. I read a lot of Paul Zendell and junior high. based on the novel Up the Sandbox written by Anne Richardson Royfe mother of Katie Royfe who is a problematic feminist of note

starring Barbara Streisand, David Selby Jane Hoffman, Conrad Bain, Jacobo Morales and I will say the following names are all here on the cast list and I don't think I recognized any of them. Isabel Sanford, apparently, Anne Ramsey. I hate to say this.

She was the maid. Did not catch that. Anne Ramsey. Lois Smith. I was looking everywhere for Lois Smith. Never know when you're going to get surprised Lois Smith. That's true. Paul Dooley, and I did go back and I saw the like, Blinken, you'll miss it, Stockard Channing

performance in her screen. I missed that. I was looking for that. Yeah. Did you not see Paul Dooley? Paul Dooley by the Statue of Liberty. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

And also, Paul Benedict. oh so you get double you get double jefferson's that's shrew oh paul benedict is yes i forgot to write him down he was the african explorer yes of course most problematic we'll talk about problematics barbara's insistence that they go to kenya to film that scene oh my god no barbara and according to the memoir barbara was like we could have just went to california okay it's like there's there are accounts that say the exact opposite so that's very funny um Isn't there also the woman from Thromama from the train is in this? Yeah, Anne Ramsey.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes. Oh, who did she play? I didn't see her. I did not. She credited it as battle acts. Yeah, I have no idea. Some of these people are just tucked into corners.

I swear to God, I have no idea. Where was Stocker Channing? She was in one of the parties. She was in, um, okay, okay. There was a, yeah, one of the, I think the party where, uh, stricant fantasizes that her, uh, her pregnancy. he goes away and her boobs get bigger. Perhaps that party.

Good party. There are a lot of parties in this one. The woman who gets, is the babysitter who gets naked. I looked her up and I didn't know her name, but she was on, like, she was in every single television show ever made. Oh, okay. But she was on taxi. She was on Welcome Back Carter.

She was in everything. Fantastic. And she's still working. What was her name? Did you catch her name or no? Carol White as Miss Spittlmeister And Carol White is her most She's on Laverna and Shirley she was in I mean she's working as of 2023

She's still making independent films and TV shows She was in Royal Pains Oh sure Classic Long Island television Yes Yeah Carol Ida with a T white She was on the Wayans Brothers TV series What a life

Beverly Hills 90210 She's in everything What a career I love that. And she comes on the screen, and for a minute, the spotlight's off Barbara for a split second because you're like, ooh, is this weirdo that just walked in the room? It's incredible. I love the women in the park. Yes.

All of her friends. Yeah. All of her friends. And I'm going to just going to say, they're all wonderful, but they all are not as attractive as Barbara. Every single one of them has a slight defect. One imagines that was perhaps not an accident. And they had to get one woman who was even jewier than Barbara, but it was like a mess.

Like she's wearing a bandana and she's like a teeth is sticking out. And she's like, no, what you do it is wrong. It's just like, she's the ethnic, not me. I'm gorgeous. Margaret, what are they, Margaret Peterson? What the hell is her name in this crazy movie? It's Margaret Reynolds. Margaret Reynolds.

Sure. At least that's her married name. That's true. Her real name is Margaret Schwartz. Yeah. I do have to say before we launch into the 60 second. plot description. We are recording this on Barbara's birthday. Oh, happy birthday, Barbara. Happy birthday, Barbara. Make another movie. Say happy birthday, Barbara. Make another movie.

Make another movie. Record another album. All right. Um, this premiered on December 21st, 1972. So you could, didn't the Godfather also premiere right around Christmas? So, right? The Godfather premiered around Christmas, I feel like. No, the Godfather premiered in March, my guy. Oh, okay. So it's like, we'll get into, this whole Oscar year once we're like getting through the movie but like yeah cabaret was in February cabaret loomed large over the previous Oscar ceremony because it had already come out right it was already a sensation but the godfather came out in March okay so it's just like a lot of what's happening with the Oscars this year is kind of set by the time that this movie opens sure

sure um all right jordan i have 60 seconds on the clock and you are tasked with summing up the plot of Up the Sandbox in 60 seconds. Are you ready to go? I'm going to do my best. All right, and begin. It's the early 1970s, and feminism is on the rise. Barbara Streisand plays the housewife of a Columbia professor who has two small children, but she still has dreams to be a vibrant intellectual woman, but she is confined by

society's mores and the need to constantly bathe her children. she wanders around New York City and she's pregnant with number three she's not that interested in having a third baby she wanders around New York City frequently going into Walter Middy-esque fantasies about just

you know rebelling against her husband and then this includes somehow shacking up with Fidel Castro blowing up the Statue of Liberty and having an abortion and but then somehow the movie just ends nicely but most of the movie is just set pieces of very

realistic scenes like a trip to their parents in New Jersey that just goes on forever and the movie is simultaneously brilliant but also terrible you gotta see it eight seconds over very good Jordan well done that's it um yeah to bring up the family visit yes because you're right that that goes on forever

But that's the part of the movie where I'm like, oh, yeah, this is based on a book. Yep. You know, where it suddenly becomes like this is probably a huge passage of a book and they're trying to match some type of style because a lot of it is shot on this like 16 millimeter home camera-esque, you know, image. And she, one of the notes that she, the actress that plays her mother, she mentions is. the memoir or at least the audio book that I love she mentions the actress

she's like she was very she calls her like thoughtful or kind or something for allowing her face to be shoved into a cake and then she's like most people wouldn't do that it's so good I wrote down a particular

quote in the annals of you could fill a book with quotes in movies from mothers who are being either passive-aggressive or outwardly negative about their children's urban existence. You know what I mean? The moms come in from out of town. I don't know how you can live like this. She says, move to New Jersey.

The air is cleaner and nobody writes lesbians unite in the elevator, which sums up this character quite well, I thought. It's a pretty great line. There's a lot of really funny zings in the film, which is now 52 years old or whatever. Yeah, the mother stuff is actually pretty great. And it is funny because if you do read Barbara's memoir, which is 1,000 pages, she does kvetch quite a bit about how her mother used to come to the apartment unannounced. Up until her dying day, she would show up unannounced.

And that's what the mother in this film does. So there's some nice art reflecting life there. Yeah. Yeah. You know, that scene, it's, it's the scene in the film, it's almost like a film within the film when she goes to New Jersey and there's a big family gathering. And it does switch to like a 16 millimeter because one of the uncles or whatever is carrying around a home movie camera.

It feels very, um, it has like a Robert Altman feel to it, uh, which, uh, I was later gratified to learn that Altman wanted to adapt this book. Oh, interesting. But by the time he got around to trying to get the rights, Barbara had already snapped it up, because it has that 70s. Everybody's talking over one another vibe. Yeah. And you kind of just get a glimpse of the character.

You don't even know who is like this one guy who's clearly an angry drunk who hates his wife. You don't even know who he is. He's some cousin or whatever. You just get one brief moment with him. And you're like, yeah, I know everything about this guy. Yeah, yeah. It's really, it's really well made.

The problem with the movie is that there really is no story. Yes. And these dream sequences last for way to, like the scene when they're blowing up the Statue of Liberty is just absurd. Well long past the point where you realize, oh, it's a dream sequence. It's just like, oh, yeah. Well, yes, I mean. They become more obviously dream sequences as the movie goes on. Yes.

But, like, we even mentioned the moment where she's talking to, uh, The other Columbia professor, she thinks she's sleeping with her husband. That her husband's having an affair with. And it's a dream sequence, but it's really hard to tell that it is one. And like, even the Castro sequence is, like, absurd, but presented in this incredibly realistic way. And like, movies, of course, have done that before and continue to do that, but you under the fan. Yeah, you don't know when it exactly tips over. And then by the end of the movie, she's in.

the abortion clinic under like 12 curtains of gauze where it's very clearly a dream sequence and so yeah yeah i mean i you know this was this was an artistic choice they made they didn't want to do dissolves or weird lighting they they wanted to make it natural and then you wouldn't know until until i got so absurd and then it would jump back you know yeah and they do this they do this technique i don't know five times or whatever um it's funny i should tell you about the first time I actually saw this movie, and it actually, this kind of leads into the one thing that I prepared myself to talk about is just sort of my relationship with Barbara in general.

Yeah. But the first time I saw this movie, it was not one that I'd seen as a kid for whatever reason, although I was always obsessed with the VHS box because it had a pun on the on the front. It said Barbara Streis Sand, big letters, and then up the sand box. Yeah, they use the sand for the same. I think. Yep. Yep. And she's like walking around like wearing a backpack and the backpack is a baby bottle. Right. The backpack, I guess she's a guerrilla fighter or something. And I always found, it's like an illustration. And I always found that the video box weird. But growing up for whatever reason, you know, my parents, my mother specifically who was always eager to have me watch Barbara in some capacity, whether it was her films or listen to the albums or watch tapes of the. the television shows, which, by the way, when you talk about Barbara's impact on American

culture at the time, the TV specials were the biggest thing around. I mean, that was really where she went wide, was those CBS specials or whatever, which she did like six of them. Which should be way more available than they are, but you can get your hands on them. You can get your hands on. And they look like they were shot on one inch video in the year 1970s. They kind of look like crap. I mean, the Color Me Barbara one is, Great, because she sings to an anteater, but it looks like, you know, old BBC Doctor Who. It doesn't look that great. Anyway, this was one that, for whatever reason, the video box, and my mother would be like,

oh, I saw that one. We don't need to see it. And maybe she knew it had some risque moments. Or just, I just think she didn't like it very much. She just thought it was kind of dumb, unlike What's Up, Doc, which I saw 15 times. Sure. So the first time I saw it was very soon thereafter, very soon after September 11th, 2001. Sure.

Because I was, like many New Yorkers, found myself underemployed. I had a job, but it wasn't, didn't occupy that much of my time. And I was just sort of filling in the cracks on movies. And I was rewatching a lot of barbers stuff. And I remember this was one of the first things I got on a little, little company called Netflix. I remember, it was like one of my first things on my Netflix queue. Yep. And I remember watching it, not knowing too much about it.

And the scene where they blow up the Statue Liberty, watching that four, five, six months after September, level, just thinking like, holy shit. The 70s were weird, man. You would not make that movie today. Now I guess maybe you could. I don't know. But at the time, it really struck me as, you know, you know. Does Barbara remember that she made this? And what's particularly eerie is this was filmed.

I mean, it came out at the end of 72. So it was probably filmed in late 71 or early 72 was when they were building the World Trade Center towers. Right. And you can see them in the background. Still being built. They weren't 100% finished. Yep. Much like the movie Godspell where you can see them under construction.

And you see a lot of blank area in what's now known as Battery Park City, which was built on, You know, to build the towers, they had to dig up so much earth that they had so much landfill that they plopped in the harbor that they were able to build what's called Battery Park City now, which is a little community there. So it's weird that they're going to do this massive domestic terrorism with the towers in the background behind them. The towers in the background. It's just like, holy shit. Yeah. Yeah. I never really knew about the existence of this movie, but friends of mine had probably still have.

the image from the poster, which is, as you say, it's, to me, it's the shot, the, the, the image is Barbara, almost like a, like on the mast of a ship and the mast is the baby bottle, because she's sort of tied to it, right? She's tied to it. That's what it is. It's not a backpack. It's like she's tied to it. Like, to me, it's like the mast of the ship. And it's also stylized as if she's on the cover of Time magazine. It's got the border or whatever. And they had that poster in their apartment. And I would see it. every time I would go over. And I just figured it was just like this piece of pop art involving Barbara. You know what I mean? And I didn't realize it was the cover because it didn't have the movie title. It was just the image. Oh, I see.

It was styled like a time cover, right? So I just thought it was like, Of the Year. Yes. So I didn't realize it was about an actual movie until fairly recently. Yeah. And then it's so weird because it comes in between two major hits. I mean, What's Up Doc is a master.

piece. And you could make the case that it's her best film. I don't know that it is. I mean, there's, there's, there's, uh, of course, a funny girl, but it's, it's up there. Um, and then the way we were is right after. So it's sandwiched in between these two monsters. And then, of course, her, her musical career is on fire. If you look at 71, she recorded Stoney End and the album, this is called Barbus Jones Streisand. And then coming up was the way we were. And, um, Yep. You know, it's, it's, it's a little bit of a, just a dip in an otherwise, you know, unshakable career arc. And yet not the worst movie that she was in or the biggest flop either.

No, no. That would be, um, no, it's all night long. Yeah, all night long is unbearable. And for Pete's sake is pretty bad, too. For Pete's sake, just doesn't really have anything going on. I wonder if that made more money because it's pretty straightforward. I think it did, but for Pete's sake, feels like a corrective of this movie. Because the biggest thing that she says about this movie is she feels like people didn't want to see her not be funny.

Yeah. Or they didn't want to see her play basically a housewife. And for Pete's sake, that's kind of what she's doing, but it is meant to be very funny. For Pete's sake, it's very straight. It's just like a normal sitcom. When I rewatch that, I was like, why did she do this movie? This material is so beneath her. Yeah, no, that's just it.

And, you know, it's funny because there are some moments in up the sandbox that are really clever and there's some good lines. But then there are just scenes that just die, like the Castro scene. It's just awful. And not because it's offensive, although it is. It just doesn't work. Yeah, listener, we haven't said this yet. In the sequence, Castro, after she's basically dressed him down publicly and said, you know, the future is female, whatever, Castro takes Barbara back, or Margaret, back to Castro's quarters and attempts to seduce Margaret and reveals that Castro has breasts. Yeah, so he's a transgender revolutionarily.

Or at the very least, a woman who's been masquerading as Castro this whole time. because the whole argument they had down in the press conference was there was this very kind of like honestly 2020's thing of like what was the what was the thing about like castra's point is like well what we need is more women in the military more women yeah that that's the joke about like we need more women prison guards or whatever right we need more women in the military no yeah we don't need military at all why should women want to be like you because you get terrorizing the world with your bombs and your rockets and what's funny is that there's this like like a Cuban ultra-hadi like they're on the dais it's like all the typical Cuban military guys with the beers and the sunglasses look at the Cuban version of Galgadot sort of standing right then Gargadote shows up and she's just like a stone called Fox and then later she's playing with scorpions or something it's like what the hell's going on first of all why are they even at the Waldorf Astoria Hotel which that was the one of the shots of her strolling into the into the conference room they shot that at the Waldorf So that was pretty cool. There's a lot of great, you know, some of the scenes at Columbia, the exterior's or at Columbia University, there's a lot of cool, cool location stuff. And then it's like the scene, and then, yes, she calls them the F slur, but of course, she says it with the thick Brooklyn accent.

So it's, I mean, not my place to say, but it's kind of funny the way she says. Oh, the whole scene is absurd, absolutely absurd. Yeah, like it's pretty hard. I mean, like you said earlier, Chris, if anybody gets a hall, pass to make jokes at the homosexual community's expense It's Barbara. Yeah, we'll give it to Barbara.

It's also a weird scene because clearly this is a movie that's trying to play this satire or like play with surrealism and feminist themes in a straight faced way and this is the first moment that it feels like it's trying to be comedy

but then, you know, per Barbara's perceptions of the material they were trying to do, they were not trying to make a comedy so it makes the scene even stranger it doesn't really work and speaking to the sort of the the strange tones of it and the strange kind of um ways in which this sort of you know this feminist message is being carried off by the movie so one of the people who sort of liked the movie was pauline and kale and so i i her review is linked via rotten tomatoes uh actually

It's a chapter in her in one of her books. And she leads it with Up the Sandbox as a Joyful Mess, a picture full of sass and enthusiasm and comic strokes that doesn't seem to have discovered what it's meant to be about. And she talks about how the book, the Anne Richardson-Royfe novel, is somewhat of the opinion that Margaret doesn't really hate being a wife and mother, that she's not really opposed to it, that she has these sort of daydreams or whatever, but that she sort of clearly loves, you know, the life that she has,

and she's not looking to, you know, escape it or leave her husband or leave her kids or whatever. And there then isn't a ton of urgency in that. And the movie in trying to sort of paper, not paper over that, but like paint in tones of a more sort of actively feminist. character still can't kind of get around the idea that ultimately this isn't a woman who like up and leaves her kids and leaves her right she's not really a revolutionary she just she's a um she's a Hillary Clinton-esque feminist she would like she would like her husband to do the dishes basically that's the thing is just like she just wants him to pitch in a little bit more and like watch the kids for an afternoon sometime and maybe not cheat on her

yeah yeah yeah well yes yeah hopefully yeah she needs a good guy I mean I mean, it's, yeah, it's a very interesting thing because when she has these fantasies, I mean, the racial stuff also, I mean, when they're blowing up the, the Statue of Liberty, she's with these sort of like Black Panther-esque militants. And those shots look cool. I mean, they're on a boat, skiffing, skiffing through the harbor. There are all these, like, cool-looking dudes and afros. And then Barbara, she looks fantastic. She's wearing, like, this cool suit, her hairs in the wind and everything. It looks like a great shot from an action movie.

Only it's Barbara. Only it's Barbara. It's like, give me a break. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But she looks great. You know, I got to bring something up now. It's time to bring it up for the listeners that have lasted this long. Now, first of all, Chris and Joe, I want to thank you for having me on the show because

a diversity of opinion and a diversity of perspective is important in all conversations about culture. Yes. And I'm proud today to make an appearance on this had Oscar buzz, representing a The heterosexual community. Thank you. We needed this perspective. You know, once in a while, a straight guy, a straight white man needs to have his voice heard.

I think you are maybe like the third straight white. It's very possible. A straight white guy who is not afraid to wear pink, though, I will say, which you are sporting quite probably. I love Barbara Streisand. I, you know, I am, we're all friends here. I am a straight man, but it's not my fault. I was like Lady Gaga says I was born this way. There's nothing I can do.

I went to NYU. If I was even a little bit by, it would have happened. It's just not in my nature. Not for lack of trying, not for lack of hoping. I mean, all my gay friends seem to be having a blast. And I'm stuck here on Straight Island. It's not any place you guys want to be. You're making a good go of it, Jordan.

And honestly, we appreciate your strength and courage. Yes. Yes. So, so. Thank you for your. bravery and being good. So the point I want to make is this. Not only, so I grew, I'm an 80s kid, you know, I'm a little bit younger than this movie, but not that much. Yeah. And I'm also Jewish and from New Jersey. So Barbara represents to me, my parents, really, my mother and also my father who loved her. And, you know, I grew up, really, Barbara and Bet Midler were just like aunts that I had, you know, because all my mother's friends, they love to just sit around in Yenta and talk about Barbara's new album. Barbara's new movie, who she's dating now. Oh, she's with this guy.

She's with... You really grew up in coffee talk with Linda Richmond, didn't you, George? 100%. When that came out, it was like, why are people laughing at my aunts? You know, this is just what they do. So, um, there's a moment of, of shock and realization. I've talked about this with other Jewish kids my age that are straight men. Yeah.

The moment of shock and horror you feel. feel when you realize that Barbara Streisand is hot. Oh, I see. Because Barbara and my mother are around the same age. Sure. She's a little bit younger. Sure. She's a little bit younger.

But Barbara is her contemporary, you know, in, in all of life. And I remember going through, I remember this as clear as yesterday. I am now 13. I'm becoming a man. And I'm going through my parents' record collection. And there is the cover of Barbara's, um, Superman album and if you if you I'm looking it up right now yep yeah yep yep so there she's in that ridiculous hair which is a little embarrassing because it's now the mid 80s and that's very

70s hair but she's half naked in a in a very tight white t-shirt and I'm going oh my god this is this is a little bit exciting and it's it's a stunner oh barbara okay yeah I'm looking And you have to read. Well, because the great cultural lie that because Barbara is unconventionally attractive, that makes her unattractive, the lie that was perpetuated and perpetuated. That was perpetuated. But on top of that also, she's stunning. Yeah. So you have that lie, which is how every kid would feel.

Yeah. Then add to this that Barbara was my mother. I mean, I look at my mother going, oh, my God. She does look like she's about to like. do the pole vault in the Battle of the Network stars kind of a thing, right? Or sort of, you know what I mean?

Like the, like she's, it's, that's sort of the very sort of athletic socks and. Yes, those socks. She could be wearing very short running shorts. She's half naked. She looks like she's about to go get it on with, with, uh, what's his name?

John Peters or whatever. And, um, it makes you reevaluate everything. And, uh, it was a big, a big stunner. Now, luckily the movies that I, I would then, I mean, seeing her in Yentel. She's not a sex pot in Yentel. Yentil's the greatest movie ever made. But it's, you know, she's not, she's not a dream in that. But like this album cover and then, of course, the wet album cover, which is, there you go. I mean, come on. So it's just kind of weird. And then you watch this movie, though, and she really is, she's not like showing a lot of skin in this movie, but the outfit she's wearing. She's looking great. In every shot, it's just like, Wow, you know, she's a real, real stunner. And the husband, the handsome fellas, too. The actor is not that well known.

What is this guy's name? David Selby? Most famous for being on Dark Shadows, David Selby. I got to say, David Selby, every time I've watched this movie, he shows up and I'm like, that man's not married to Barbara. Like, that's not in what universe? He's not enough. All respect to David Selby.

I actually, I will maybe take the opposite view. thought the scene with the, she draws the line down the center of the bed. And she says, Oh my God. It's very, the chemistry there is working, I thought. I thought so too. There's a lot of TV. He's Quentin. He's Quentin Collins from Dark Shadow. And also he was on a lot of Falcon Crest. He was on, won a bunch of soap opera Digest Awards for Falcon Crest. So he played Richard Channing on that show, which was not a soap that I watched, but I know a lot of people were into falton crest. It's all TV actors in this. It's, it's, it's, it's Isabelle, uh, it's Weezy Jefferson and, and Bentley from the Jefferson. It's Conrad Bain from who was also in a lot of

Woody Allen movies of the time. I guess if you were a New York director, he, you get, Conrad Bain would have been probably in Maud like right around this time or about to be. We talked about how Maud, we talked about our Harold and Maud episode about how Maud was about to debut right around that same time. So Conrad Bain was probably already showing up next to in Tocahoe, next door in Tuckahoe to Maud. And what's his name? What was her husband's name in that? I can't remember. Oh, yeah, I can see his face. Arthur? Maybe Arthur. Yes, author. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right. He was also, I will say, in nine episodes, according to Wikipedia, nine of the ten episodes of the HBO,

series Tell Me You Love Me, which was the one about the one that had the fake unsimulated sex. The fake unsimulated sex, exactly, with What's His Face from Lost was in it. Ian Summerhalder. Adam Scott in that show, getting... Adam Scott was in that show. Yeah, Ali Walker. But yeah, he was played Arthur Foster in that show. This is, by the way, you're talking about David Selby, not Conrad Bain.

We're talking about David Selby, yes. We're back to talking about David Selby. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Conrad Bain is not getting voluntarily naked. If he was, there was a, there was a medium involved in a Ouija board because I think by that point. He was last seen in 2020 in an episode of NCIS New Orleans. So good for David Bain Collins is still alive? Yes, 83 years young.

Good for him. And still knocking around. So good for him. I'm sure he's at a horror convention somewhere. in Minneapolis next week. Probably so. Probably so. Wow.

Okay. So, anyway, yeah, so Barbara looks like a million bucks in this. I mean, in every outfit she's wearing. She looks tremendous. Yeah.

It's really great. Even in the dumb scenes with Castro, and in the action scenes with the Black Panthers. And then the other big set piece is they go to a party, you know, a very, very, University party.

Very Columbia universe. And it's like straight out of a Philip Roth novel or Woody Allen movie where it's all these intellectuals babbling. And then one of the intellectuals is Paul Benedict, better known to you, was Mr. Bentley from the Jeffersons. Yes. And he is just back from Africa and he's banging drums and playing what looks like a didgerie do, not an African instrument to me.

And he's talking about how he met this tribe. And then she goes into a dream sequence where she's going to meet the tribe. And yes, any, any reason. reasonable producer would have shot the scene, you know, at Vasquez Rocks in California just to get a desert. But they actually flew to Kenya,

I want to say. On the Sanburu National Nature Reserve. Shot with the Samboor tribe as well. And it's, it looks incredible. And it's her wandering around with Mr. Bentley from the Jeffers going like,

oh, uh, it's dangerous and he's like nonsense my dear and then there are like these you know there's another tribe that's been like speared to death there's like bloody bodies everywhere it's very much like oh we are 1770s white woman's view of Africa uh huh yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah and then they go and meet

the the tribal elder who is this you know very obese woman being held up in a palanquin and it's like what the hell am I looking at? And then the scene ends with them being attacked and presumably speared to death. So how the hell did this happen?

How indeed? Well, especially because there is a very sort of, and you don't want to like be, you know, the most boring thing to me is sort of looking back at something that's 40 years old and being like, this was problematic. But it's also this very kind of like, I'm going to take a vacation into the lives of

other people, but in this very like, Like, I see, I see some black people in Harlem getting arrested and my immediate thought is, what if I was like one of the Black Panthers? You know what I mean? Like, what if this was me? What if I got to do this kind of very exciting, very, you know, defy the law kind of thing? And it's, and again, you know, it fits the character. So you don't want to, you know what I mean? Like it's, there is, there's a truth to it in that this is probably something that somebody,

like this very well might have thought and but it's just it's it's a little bit of you know it's a little bit revelatory of this kind of thinking of like oh i'm such a bored housewife i'm so sick of taking care of my kids and making them breakfast what if i were just a black revolutionary wouldn't that wouldn't that solve all of my problems wouldn't that be great yeah yeah just on top of like being what it is for the time to it's the type of thing that would be, if it wasn't Barbara Streisand attached to this material, that level of unquestionable star, it would not make it past a round of studio notes, any sequence in this movie.

Probably so, probably so. Because it's like, it's so clear that no one's, you know, asking what the hell do you think you're doing with this movie at most of its sequences. Yeah. And that, you know, that sequence, the, the Statue of Liberty sequence has a logic to it at least. and a punchline. The Africa sequence it's just like

it's like low hanging fruit. It's like, oh, you go there and you get speared to death. Like that's, that's not, that's, even for 1972,

that's not that funny. No. Like, that's Bob Hope 1952 joke. Right. You know, it's just,

it's a little beneath Barbara. But it is funny, though, in her book, though, she talks about going to Africa and bringing Jason Gould, and apparently she tried to,

like, leave the compound one night. And apparently she, there was a like a charging rhinoceros that was like in the area. So Barbara was nearly impaled by a rhinoceros in Africa. What a weird twist that would have been to 20th century culture had that happened. And that's when I started to hate the color gray is what she said. Most of what she talks about in this book is kind of just in this chapter of the book, at least, about up the sandbox is kind of justifying.

the thought process behind a lot of it, or at least explaining what the movie is intending to do. Does she still think it was a good movie, a bad movie? Like, does she sort of talk about it qualitatively, though? She speaks of it positively, at least. Like, I think it's one of those things. It really feels like one of the few outright disappointments for her in the book. she talks about, you know, aside from, you know, maybe some of the press around Yentel, you know,

in the way that she was interviewed and spoken of at that time. But just like she doesn't, like, it was an earnest attempt to do something and people didn't get it and isn't that a bummer. Yeah, it's a, the whole project is a little bit of a round peg in a square hole. And what's important, though, is that there are some scenes that are really, really good. Like the scene when they come back from the Columbia Party. Yeah. And she and her husband are fighting.

Like that's a really. Yes. Well written, well shot and well performed. It's like the bulk of the trailer too. It's like that. Oh, is it? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And there are a few other.

Like, there are some good zings. I mean, a lot of it is just like her doing it aside or her doing like her voice. Like she's hanging out with the friends and she's like. Yeah. You know, just like little moments. I don't even know if I jot it down, but it's like little. Park ending is pretty good too because how else do you end a movie

like this other than the way they end this movie? Yeah, I thought the ending is good. Yeah, it's totally like it ends with total status quo but like conceivable fantasy. He's taken, yeah, I was going to say, him taking the kids for the afternoon is like an actual real life fantasy there. She needs to drive off.

She wins. It feels intentionally like at that point we can't tell if it's fantasy or really and it works. Because all of a sudden, she's next to the Mary round and then she's on the merry-go-round and did we just sort of cut to 10 minutes into the future is this sort of yeah dream logic yeah i wouldn't be surprised if a lot of that came together in the editing too they probably shot it very possible you could easily do that yeah yeah yeah i want

to talk about so paul zendell did the the screenplay adaptation for this am i the only one who read paul zendell books in junior high is that is that i know chris you were in like special advanced like gifted and talented program so you were reading you i never should told you that that's not what that's not the truth I read remind me some of Paul Zendell's work um well so he his his major play that he wrote was the effective gamma rays on the man in the moon marigolds which was made into that paul newman um jane woodward play but the book that i read that i remember the most is called the pig man but he wrote um it was just like a bunch of y a stuff my darling my hamburger

um confessions of a tj baboon all of these books that sort of really appealed to, like, oh, I've got to read this thing for my reading list, but it's, I want to read something that sounds at least a little bit, you know, not so serious. You're stepping on my eyeball. Exactly. But so, I have, I have never read one of his books, but I have heard of a few of them. His books were always. I've definitely heard of my darling, my hand. Well, they mentioned it, you know, where you heard of it is in dangerous minds.

Oh, my God. That was the book they were, this, this class. room full of inner city, mostly black kids, were assigned to read my darling, my hamburger, and they're like, we don't know how this relates to our lives. And Michelle Pfeiffer is like, I know what relates to your lives, rap music and Bob Dylan's song. So I'm going to teach you that way. Wow. But so Paul Zendell's books kept getting like, still I think, keep getting banned for like being too sort of, too sexually frank for junior high kids, because it like probably mentions, like, a guy mentioning getting a boner or something like that, you know what I mean?

Like, that kind of a thing that where, you know, you have to protect children from, you know, and these aren't like, you know, giant porn orgy books or whatever, but they are about, like, young teenagers and, you know, it's, it's that kind of thing. So I just remember this being, like, when it was, I had a very sort of reluctant to read for pleasure stage. And so it was, like, pulling teeth to get me to read books like the outside. or a separate piece or all of these very sort of like Y.A. Junior High books until I started reading Stephen King in high school. And then I became a very like airport novel kind of a person

where I would read like all the Grishams, all the, you know, all the Michael Cretons, that kind of a thing. But I definitely remember reading those. And so and because he wrote that the play of the Man in the Moon Marigolds that became this Joanne Woodward movie, it sort of feels like He sort of straddled the line between Y.A. stuff and then, you know, movies that, you know, hip-cool 1960s, you know, people were into. Right. Yeah. The effect of Gamera is a Man in the Moon Marigolds. It's a weird movie.

This is what I've heard. I know the play actually pretty well because when I was in high school, the little feeder troupe that I was in put it on. I was not in it, though, but I helped out backstage. It was the one that I wasn't in, the only one. But I was involved in the production, and it's very weird. And the movie version, I just see here that Joanne Woodward won the Best Actress Award at Cannes. Yes. Yeah.

They mentioned it a bunch in the documentary from a couple of years ago. Sure. About the HBO documentary about them, the last movie stars. But I didn't want to pivot to the 1972 Oscars, because we do want to talk about that a little bit. And Chris was so diligent in preparing us all that. this material from inside oscar our bible for this um yeah big year cabaret versus the godfather one of the big sort of oscar narratives of the 70s yeah i tried to go back and watch as much 70s 72 stuff as possible but it was either stuff that i'd seen i'd already seen obviously

cabaret and the godfather i know the immigrants as i said in a previous one the evidence it's hard to get a hold of it's not rentable right now and it's also it's like as i said it's the most sounds like a four-hour movie but is only 90 minutes movie ever um i did start to watch the ruling class and i will probably finish the ruling class but genuinely after 30 minutes i'm like i really think i got it like i really hold in a second um is that the one with um peter o'toole yes uh-huh nominated for where he thinks he's he's he's the yeah it's like it's like it's king ralph but with sort of delusions of uh it's generally the plot of King Ralph. Really, there should be more movies that are King Ralph. But it's like,

it's a two, it's a two and a half hour movie. And I, half an hour in, I'm like, oh, okay. So, like he has delusions of being Jesus, just like the, the, the nobility class in England has delusions of being better than everybody else. I got it. I got it. It was good. The, the, the stick with that movie is, um, if, if we were English, we would love that movie. Yeah, that's probably true. Because we're Americans, we just don't care. It's the inverse of Downton Abbey, where the English are all like, you watch that show, and we're all like, we love it. It's amazing. Wait, the best, so you're talking about the 1973 ceremony of 19172? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yes, yes, yes, yeah.

That was not nominated for Best Picture. No, it was nominated for Best Actor for Peter O'Toole. Yeah, Deliverance I had seen, like, quite a bit ago. I probably could have you watched it, but I didn't. And then I've never seen sounder. I think the Elgrins will be the only Best Picture nominee of this decade that I'll be missing after this series. My library had a long wait list. Everybody wants to watch the immigrants.

That's crazy. I've never even seen. I gotta be honest with you. I don't even really. This movie just, am I in the Mandala effect right now? I've never even heard of this. It's the emigrants with an E.

Yes. And it's, it's the foreign language movie nominated from Sweden. That is not a Bergman movie. Yeah. It looks like it should be. Considering it's nominated in Best Picture and its sequel, the New Land, is nominated in foreign language film the same year that's crazy oh my god it's leave olman and max von sido yeah and a bunch

monica zetterlund also her's cito wasn't remember how i thought that miss sloan was shadow directed by aaron sorkan because it just felt like an erin sorkan like this sort of feels the same way about like this is just an enigmar bergman movie but it's not you know it's in in anything but name yeah and it's one hundred and ninety one minute oh this is the long one what was the one The Newland, I think, is the 90-minute one. Okay, okay. The other thing about this year is, like, all of the critical poll quotes that are in Inside Oscar, they just refer to movies as various different Gone with the Winds.

The critics, like, just were in a moment of comparing things to Gone with the Wind. So the Immigrants was the Swedish Gone with the Wind. The Godfather was the Gone with the Wind of Mafia movies. To quote Chloe, 7 Yee, we need more movies, we need new references. One movie that was nominated in 72 that I haven't seen that I would like to is Butterflies Are Free, which is the one that Eileen Hecker won. What's that? It's so funny that I don't know that I've seen it either, but in fact, I know that I haven't because I haven't. But I'm looking at the other nominees and Joe, the other nominees for Best Supporting.

I know. In this year, it's just like a, it's a, it's like four, it's like four brilliant performances. Jenny Berlin and the Heartbreak Kid, which, you know. Jeannie. Jeannie, Berlin. Jeannie, excuse me. I can't, you. I'm so excited by her performance.

I can't even say her name correctly. Jeannie Berlin and the Heartbreak Kid. Geraldine Page and Pete Ntilly, which is a fun little movie. I've never seen Pete and Tilly. That's Carol Burnett, right? Oh, Pete Tilly's a hoot. Yeah. Okay.

I wonder which nomination this was for Geraldine Page, too, because like Geraldine Page, too, because like Geraldine Page famously, as F.M. Abraham tells us, he thinks the greatest living actress in the 80s. She doesn't win until then, but she was, like, the most nominated without winning. Yeah. This was her fifth nomination by that point. Wow. Fifth of eight. Then you have Susan Terrell in Fat City, which is a great, like, New Hollywood movie that is not Houston, right? John Houston. Yeah, it's John Houston. We were talking about, like, Chinatown and all the other ones earlier. This one is as good as those films, but just not as famous. It's Stacey Keech as a boxer, the very young Jeff Bridges.

He's like 17 years old. Oh, wow. And then Susan Terrell is this like flusy that hangs out at the bar and she's so good. And then, oh my God, Shelly Winters and the Poseidon as Belle Rosen in the water. I'm a very skinny lady. I mean, just an incredible performance. The fact that that should be nominated and she didn't win. I know.

She's won an Oscar, though, Shelly Winters, right? She'd won two at that point. And they were expecting her to win because the Poseidon Adventure, huge hit, you know, it furthers the thing in the 70s of disaster movies being taken seriously on a prestige level, the foundation set by Airport in 1970. Yeah. Report's a good movie. Jordan, thank you.

You have satisfied Joe in loving Wonka. You are satisfying me in loving airport. Airport is not schlock. Airports 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6 are ridiculous. And the Poseid Adventure, I love it, is ridiculous. The Powering Inferno is ridiculous. Cave in. The one with the bumblebees that kills you.

Michael Cain, even the sunflower seeds. Those movies are all idiotic. Earthquake with an exclamation point? All dumb. All dumb. The original airport is a quality motion picture. It's just a fascinating. or trail.

It's a fascinating look at a functioning airport. And then the last 20 minutes involves a bomb. It's basically a Wiseman movie because it's just about process. Right. It's about process.

All airport is about is about process. Wow. It's just about being at the airport. It's a good movie. People think airport is schlock and it isn't. It's really really good. I can't say that I thought it was good, but I loved every minute of it.

I had such a wonderful time. The first airport is, And it was nominated for Best Picture, right? Yes. Yeah. It was nominated for a lot of Oscars. Helen Hayes won. Helen,

the scammer. She won. Yeah, she's great. And I think Dean Martin was nominated for best actor, right? It's very possible. I don't. He should have been. He should have been.

It's a great. And then what's his name? George, the guy from the naked gun is in there, too. George, no, not George Kennedy. Yeah, George Kennedy. Yeah, George Kennedy is in there. Yes. I'll tell you, airport's not, not, it's really, really good.

But I, you know, I'm sorry. I, I, I, I, I, sidetracked. We were talking about, we were talking about, um, Shelly Winters. Does she win for Lolita? Her two Oscars are for the Diary of Anne Frank and then a patch of blue, which is one of those movies that nobody thinks is good to this. Yeah, I never heard of that. Yeah. The thing was Shelly Winters was kind of expected to be the winner here, which is somewhat surprising considering she already had two Oscars, but that movie was such a hit. She was such a big part of it. A lot of the promotion was that she gained the weight for the role.

And in presenting this, Robert Duvall accidentally laughs after saying her name, which is announced after he says Fat City. Oh, that's mean. And everybody apparently thought in like the press that that's what he was laughing at, but apparently James Kahn was looking at him and he caught eyes with James Kahn making a weird face and that made him laugh. And Duval eventually apologizes in the press to Shelly Winters and pointedly says, I wasn't laughing at you.

I was laughing, blah, blah, blah. Have you seen the clip that every once in a while will show up in like an Instagram reel or something from the Tonight Show with Shelley Winters and Annie Potts together? No. So in the Tonight Show, they do the thing where like the first guest moves over on the couch and then the second guest is seeing next to him. So Annie Potts is the second guest. Shelly Winchers is already there on the couch. And they're just sort of like chatting.

And Annie Potts says, well, she turns to show him. He says, well, you and I did a movie together. I know you from somewhere. Otherwise, I've seen you in some great movies. I can't remember which. Well, maybe it was one we did together. perfect recall, not for dates. They did? We did a picture together? Yeah. What was it?

I did this to Paul Newman, so sorry. Oh, it's okay, okay. We did a film called King of the Gypsies together. Of course, and you were wonderful in it. You... Well, it's... Well, it takes guts, but you got away with it. And it's just a phenomenal, phenomenal talk show appearance, so yeah.

Incredible. Highly recommend it. That's funny. Highly recommend it. Supporting actor, the thing about Pacino being here and not also in lead actor, much to even Pacino's consternation. Sure. Apparently Paramount in the campaign for the Oscar was like, it's Brando and everyone else.

Like, everyone is supporting and it's just Brando. I'm somewhat surprised that Diane Keaton didn't get a supporting actress nomination. Yeah. for that movie it's not like she's in it a ton but like she's not she was she was a real nobody at the time i guess yeah yeah um yeah three people from the godfather i imagine those votes got pretty well split even though jol gray is obviously tremendous in cabaret and yeah jill gray is the right winner certainly deserving yeah joel gray had open i mean Puccino's the Lees.

Yeah. Angela Lansbury opens this year's Oscars. This is the era of we need Broadway talent. A big huge production number to kick off the ceremony. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. You know, I'm looking at some of the other nominees. I'm just on the Wikipedia page.

And the weirdest thing, I'm looking at best original dramatic score. And the winner that year was the movie Limelight and Charlie Chaplin film. and he did the score, and I'm going, did the limelight come out in 72? No, it came out in 1952. So what's going on with the deal there? What was the release? I've heard about a platform release,

but this is kind of ridiculous. It's a 20-year platform release. I don't. It could just be someone's messing around on that wiki. Let me look up. No, because it, okay, so it says here in Wikipedia that Chaplin learned that he had been refuted, when heading to Britain to,

promote the film, Chaplin learned that he had been refused re-entry visa to the United States because of his alleged communist sympathies and the criticized nature of his recent personal life. And many American theaters refused to play limelight. Outside of cinemas in several East Coast cities, the film was not seen by the American movie going public. It was not until 1972 that the film was finally seen in wide American release. Wow. What a weird, and I imagine that had a lot, because we talked about what was the Oscars where Chaplin finally makes his return to Hollywood and gets his honorary Oscar, Chris. We were just talking about that.

That is the Harold and Mod. 71. So it was just the year before. So Chaplin had finally sort of broken his exile from Hollywood. Yeah. This is apparently the only competitive Oscar that Chaplin ever won was for dramatic score for Limelight. Interesting. And there's already funkiness going on in this category because the Godfather had its nomination rescinded.

It got replaced by sleuth. And conceivable that, you know, the Godfather could have won that category. And, like, the interesting thing was it had, with that nomination, beaten Cabaret in the nomination tally. But, of course, the Godfather has all of these acting nominations. And Cabaret in, like, the post-nomination promotion for the movie, the producers of Cabaret are like, well, the Cabaret is nominated in the most. categories of all Oscars, et cetera.

Yeah. I mean, they really did clean up. They won editing and art direction and all this stuff. I mean, they really, the cabaret cleaned up. You watch this ceremony and it does not feel like the Godfather's night. It's very interesting. Yeah. I mean, it's funny to think about Cabaret and the Godfather.

They're two very different movies. I rarely think about them in the same breadth, but they're both, you know, both pretty damn great. Yeah. Did you watch, Jordan, did you watch that Paramount Plus series about the making of the godfather with uh didn't i'm a shame i really oh it's not it's not very good but i did watch it in part for an assignment um and and they talk about this they talk about the the they depict the oscars that night and it was very much like yeah it was it was a big cabaret

parade up until you get to those final few categories you know it's funny sleuth is also in the run sleuth is a great film i've only seen it the one time it's very hard to find now i feel like because I wasn't able to find it streaming anywhere, so... It could be a rights issues thing. I know Sounder was hard to get a lot up for a while. I watched it while it was on Criterion and, like, sobbed my face off. Yeah, is it good? Should I see Sounder again?

I saw that when I was a kid. There's a reunion scene, not like a class reunion, but like family reunited scene that's just like I'm on the floor. Wow, I should see it again. Well, and Sicily Tyson and Paul Winfield are also nominated. It's a Best Picture nominee. best actress it's the reporting that inside oscar gives is that best actress was considered really up for grabs which is like kind of crazy to me like lisa also had lisa with a z this year and you know it sometimes it's like it's it felt like a reminder to me in reading that that sometimes the thing that was going to happen was always going to happen and like talking about the rat race makes it seem like other things or not. I do imagine, though, that, like, Diana Ross probably got a lot of ink for

Lady Sing's the Blues. She was probably the reasonable, like, runner up to it. They, they knew it was competitive. They apparently, you know, and we've talked about what an aggressive campaign looked like at this time, and it's nothing, like, compared to what it is today. Yeah. But apparently, they ran daily ads in the trades for Diana Ross for that movie. Which is really, like, kicking it into guy gear for that. This would have had to have been, if not the first, then one of the first years where multiple black women were nominated for best actress. It's the first. It's the first that, at least in lead actress,

it is the first year that more than one black woman. And probably hasn't happened in total more than, like, a handful of times, I would imagine. No. Right. Correct. Lady Sing's the Blues is a good movie, but it's not a great movie, but it's a good one. I don't think it's a good movie either, but Diana Ross is very good in it. She's Diana Ross. You've got to stay out of her way. Well, leave old man.

We mentioned Sounder a minute ago. I just got to say Paul Winfield, he is very important to me because he is the, you don't recognize him because he's under a lot of makeup in probably the greatest Star Trek, the next generation episode of all time. Oh. I was going to say, because he's also in the Rath of Khan, right? He's in Rath of Khan. He plays Terrell. Does he get the, he's the one who gets the ear, earworm? He's with Chekhov who gets the ear.

Oh, right. Chekhov gets the ear thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, he and Chekhov both get the ear and Terrell sacrifices himself rather than give up the Genesis device. He pulls the phaser on his own head. It's genuinely the most unsettled. I, I, it's a clear childhood memory of, like, things that I watch when I was a kid that

scared me. It was the needle in Star Wars when the droid with the needle is coming from Princess Lay and they shut the door. And it was the ear thing in Wrath of Tom that like scared the shit out of me. It's the setty eel. It's for those who don't remember, it's, it's a desert alien beastie that will attach to your cerebral cortex and make you susceptible to mind control. And it goes in through your eardrum and it's gross. Wait, so what's the next generation episode that he's in. Darmac. Do you know

Darmac, Angela? I don't know that series well enough to know episode titles, but like, I've seen a decent amount of like, you know,

ad hoc. It's the one, it's the episode where the, um, the enterprise, which is the flagship of the Federation, are flying through deep space. And they,

they, they encounter a, a race of, of, of alien beings that can only speak through, um, uh, the use.

of metaphor. So the universal translator is not helpful in this case. Okay. And you know what's funny is that I know that this had Oscar Buzz, one of the biggest fans of this podcast, is a young man by the name of Adam Drozen. Oh, sure. And he's also one of the world's biggest Star Trek fans

and he is right now doing somersaults and talking about Dharma. Shout out, Adam. Adam's been somersaulting the whole episode. Yeah. So anyway, he plays the alien that must

find a way to communicate with Captain Picard. Okay. And it's truly, I mean, in all sincerity, it's one of the most clever. I mean, the great thing about Star Trek is even if you don't like Star Trek, there are a handful of episodes that are just really, really clever. Like, one with Joan Collins from the original is just really brilliant. If you've never seen it, there's a reason everybody loves it. And this one is just one of those that you don't have to know anything. You just know that they're a spaceship and there are other planets and whatnot.

Right. And it's just really, really clever. And Paul Winfield kills it as the other. What is the other creature's name even? I don't know. His name is... Oh, shit, that's embarrassing. His name is Dathan, of course, Captain Dathon of the other ship.

He looks like a fish face. Paul Winfield had a really, really interesting career. Was in a lot of really big movies, even when he maybe wasn't, didn't have the biggest role in them, Wrath of Khan being one of them, The Terminator, he's in Presumed Innocent, he's in The Serpent and the Rainbow. he's in, you know, just a lot of, just pops up in a lot of movies. I, of course, mostly remember him getting killed in Mars attacks early on in the alien invasion. I love Mars attacks. What a picture.

What a picture. What time? I haven't seen it in forever, too. It's probably, I owe it a rewatch. Anywho, what else do we want to say about the 72 Oscars? Sashin Littlefeather, of course, we haven't talked about that. Oh, my God. Can we talk about, so I've, I've seen that obviously quite a few many times.

There was a lot of reassessment of that recently in terms of the apocryphal or not stories about who threatened to beat up who backstage. There were stories about, you know, that John Wayne had threatened to charge the stage and punch her. That's been thoroughly debunked since then. I think so. You know, there's a woman, a writer by the name. name of Farron Smith Nym. I don't know how to pronounce her last name. Neem. N-H-M-E. She's a classic film writer. And for whatever

reason, she, um, she, you know, she's sort of an authority on the Sassine Little Feather incident. And so I take her at her word because she's a, a trustworthy woman and, and a very astute writer. And, um, she's written about it extensively. And yeah, there, there is reason to believe that Sashin Little Feather is not who she says she was, you know, but, but as far as the, the idea of Wayne's, John Wayne having to be held back by, by, by guards so he wouldn't clock her in the face. I think that's, that's apocryphal. Yeah, yeah. I will say what isn't apocryphal is later, I imagine that this happens

later, although I don't know who got, which got presented first, actor or actress. Actors presented before actress. So the actress presentation is Raquel Welch and. someone. I can't remember. Oh, it's Hackman. You're right. It is Hackman. And before they... Liza gives Hackman his Oscar. He gives Liza her off.

Right. Right. So, they're starting to open the envelope, and what does Raquel Welch say is, I hope nobody... I hope they haven't got a cause. In a way of just like... Which to me is like, that's a real bitchy thing to say, Raquel Welts.

It's just like, you know, but... It's a little bit... The bitchiest thing is... is, well, here's the thing. Rock Hudson after this, which is not apparently on the footage that's online, Rock Hudson was one of the, like, many celebrity hosts for different sections of the Oscars. Sure, sure, sure. What he says after Sachine Littlefeather has, like, taken the stage and, like, not getting,

not able to read Marlon Brando's huge, like, 45-page screen, something like that. She'd also been threatened by the producer of the show that if she exceeded 45 seconds in her speech, she would be physically removed from the stage. She makes reference to that as she's like, I'm not able to read this whole thing. I can't read it later. But Rock Hudson says after her speech, often to be eloquent is to be silent, which like, my, Rock Hudson, my dude, you are letting me. It's very Patty Chiafsky to what's her face to Vanessa Redger. Vanessa Redgrave, yeah. Was Sassi and Littlefeather the first political grandstand at the Oscars?

Well, George C. Scott refused his Oscar, but he didn't send anybody in his stead to do so. Yeah. The hearts and mind speech is a pretty big one, too, because that's where you have Frank Sinatra making, Frank Sinatra and Bob Hope making a fake telegram from the academy. But that doesn't happen until a few years after. That's 75. It came out in 75, so it's probably 76, yeah. This might have been the first one. Spoiler look for that episode.

We're recording these all out of order. Yeah, we're recording these all out of order. We're all over. The 70s are a loose and fluid soup in my mind. Yes, yes, exactly. Rock Hudson also apparently said about Best Actress that in a horse race, bloodlines count and Liza's got the bloodlines.

Like, just throwing that out in the press, my dude. Like, come on. Like. but rock hudson was going through his own shit rock had a lot to deal with but he's disappointing me sure letting me down sure sure what is what is what is what is what is rock hudson's real name let me look this up i've never oh roy roy shirer yes yeah all right yeah roy harold shirr jr jr jordan you should watch the rock hudson documentary

i'm going to recommend oh my god it's it's full of gossip it's full of really good Hollywood Cowsett's. I mean, you know, Rock Hudson was, you know, I mean, Giant. You don't get better than... Giant is so... Giant's the one I like, right? Right? Yes. Giants great. Giant's 18 billion hours long, and it's him and Elizabeth Taylor. And yeah, yeah, giant's fantastic. I love that movie. 201 minutes. It's good. My last note on the Oscars is Eileen Hecker, who apparently knew Marlena Dietrich. Marlena Dietrich watched the show Saw Eileen Heckert's speech

And Marlena sent a very stern note to her And telling her to call her Because apparently in the note She said, Eileen, your makeup was terrible Oh no Marlena Dietrich Our original Alaska Thunderfuck All right

Anything else we want to say about up the sandbox about Barbara about I know we could talk for hours about all of this stuff Barbara is Barbara is like a is like a is like the eighth one in the world

yeah this movie is a weird movie I think ultimately it's a good movie mostly because of her like we were if Catherine Ross was in it it's not a good movie but it's still curious Yes, less than a year later, the way we were coming out, I think it's just, I think we're right.

Like, it just like, it erases the, the memory of this movie. Yeah, I mean, listen, she had just come off. Let's not pretend that Hello Dolly is a masterpiece. I mean, she had made movies beforehand, you know? Right, right. Yeah. And her recording career is just, you know, at its apex at this time, you know, good for her for taking a big swing, you know. It's a weird little thing that deserves, deserves a second look.

You know, so if you haven't seen it, check it out. It's a deeply, deeply, deeply, 70s movie, and it's a deeply sort of whatever wave of feminism. And it's aesthetic. Whatever wave of feminism it was back then, like, it's, it's very deeply of its era. And worth checking out for that. You will feel like you're going insane. Yeah, and like, just like the little, there's this little moments that are just, you know, like the kids in the car with no car seat.

You know, like, if they were to make that movie. If they were to make a movie now set then, that little touch of authenticity may be missing. There's just a lot of little things that are great. Just like the soda cans and everything, it really looks of the period. It's a great little time capsule. I will say, Chris, this is something for us to sort of over the course of the last few episodes that we're recording for this miniseries is to just sort of track the journey of American feminism. through the through line of these Oscar nominees, because sometimes the Oscars can sort of tell you a social story

as the years go along and this changing of mores and whatever. And I think if you look from like 1970 Diary of a Mad Housewife to 72, up the sandbox doesn't get nominated, but it's certainly part of Barbara's career. And then you get to things like a woman under the influence only a couple of years later. Annie Hall is certainly a guidepost. there later on. Annie Hall coming the same year as looking for Mr. Goodbar, which is a great

like Diane Keaton 1977 double feature of two very, very different versions of single gal in New York. And then the decade ends with Kramer versus Kramer, which is a very, and Normaeray, I think, those two together, where it's like, Norma is this very sort of like looking, you know,

feminism as workers' rights, right? Feminism as a more sort of like broadly thinking enterprise. and Kramer versus Kramer is very much ending the decade with like, look, it's not easy to self-actualize and also be a good mom. You know what I mean? And be a good, you know, be the perfect sort of vision of, of. Kramer versus Kramer is a great example.

That movie is so feminist, it dares to have the woman be the bitch. Yes, to be the bad guy. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. You know, but it's funny though. But be the bad guy and still be right. Sure. Yeah.

I mean, he's kind of. They're both assholes in that movie. But, um, yeah, the, the, that kid is screwed. Yeah. Yeah. That's a movie that needs a sequel. We need to. Yes.

Where's that kid today? Yeah. So, uh, you know, this movie was shot in 71, 72 or whatever, uh, you know, we were sort of joking before about, you know, oh, how she really doesn't want to break free. These are just thoughts in her mind. I guess we, we, we, we're undercutting. It's still a pretty revolutionary movie because I'll just, you know, I was thinking, talking before about my mom and Barbara, my mother's a little bit younger than Barbara by four years or

five years. And just thinking about something that she always told me is that my mother had my older sister when she was 26. Yeah. And at the time, she was ridiculed by her family and friends for waiting so long. Oh, sure. Yeah. Like it was a, it was a what the hell is the matter with you? Yeah. Why are you, you know, is there something wrong? Why don't you want to have kids at 26. Yeah. In 2024 in New York, a woman having a baby at 26 is like, what's the matter with you? Right. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, why are you having a baby so yeah. Yes. So, and that's roughly the same time period as this film. Yes. So that's the world that this movie's coming from. Totally. Right. So it is a revolutionary movie for, for this social strata,

you know. And I think Barbara sort of worked to sort of to take that adaptation from the, from the book and sort of move it towards more towards that direction too. Yeah. Yeah. All right. I would also say it makes complete, like part of this movie's legacy and like how was this made as it was made. This is one of the first movies made through first artists, which was somewhat, I mean,

I guess you could call it a collective, but it's a production company largely given to movie stars and upstarted by movie stars so that they could make the projects that they wanted to make that maybe they couldn't make through a studio. So it's like the, I mean, the history is, you know, they were given three million dollars for a movie and they didn't make anything until the movie made a profit as the star of it. Right. And like, this certainly looks like a lower budget movie, but also just like the ideas that it's playing with and maybe, you know, the lack of studio notes on this movie. Yeah. And who are the other? Because it was Sidney Poitier. Paul Newman. Dustin Hoffman. The Barbara movies are the ones that have like the largest cultural imprint today. Plus Steve McQueen's the getaway, I would say. Gotcha.

And Barbara did this with First Artist. She did Stars Born and the main event, which I think I'm on the main event for my Barbara rewatch. Yes. Main event's pretty good. I got to get back on the track. Chris, do you want to let the last. listeners know what the IMDB game is all about? Yeah, every episode we end with the IMDB game where we challenge each other with an actor, actress to guess the top four titles that IMDB says they are

most known for. If any of those titles are television, voice only performances, or non-acting credits, we'll mention that up front. After two wrong guesses, we get the remaining titles release years as a clue. That's not enough. It just becomes a free for all of hints. That's the IMDB game. That is the IMDB game. Jordan, as our guest, we give you the privilege of choosing which one of us you would like to, uh, to give a hint to and thus, you will get the hint from the other one. And then in, in, uh, which direction the sort of round robin. Wait, so remind me, I don't just say the name of the person. I have to, uh, I have to hint. Remind me how this works again. You've got, you've done, you've selected. You've selected. somebody. So if you decide you want to give your clue to me, you'll just give me the name of the person and then I'll start guessing. Yeah. And if you would like to give your clue to Chris, you can give it to Chris or if you would like the other host will help you along as well. Yeah, yeah. Right. Okay. And this should be like a 70s person. If you feel, yes, I think we have been doing that. You don't have to. You can make it. Well, you know what? We talked a little bit before about, um, about, uh, this, this person because we mentioned, uh, something that I'm sure is not going to be listed in his resume. We mentioned for Pete's sake, which I believe, is that the one with George Siegel, or is George Siegel the owl and the pussycat?

Yes, the owl and the pussy cat, right? I think the owl and the pussy cat. Yeah, okay. So, well, George, I'm going to throw out. I think we gave George Siegel. I gave George Siegel to Joe on an episode. Like very, like very recently. It hasn't.

It hasn't. Yeah, it's coming up on 73. All right. So never mind. George Siegel, you're out. All right. Somebody else. All right, somebody else that...

I can give you one of mine because I've pulled multiples. I'm going to throw somebody out. Okay. Ready? Yes. Hector Elizondo. That's...

Oh, Hector Elizondo. Okay. Hector Alizondo for me. Great. How many Gary Marshalls are going to be in here? Well, pretty woman. That is one of the four. Princess Diaries?

Is he in Prudely? Princess Diaries? I'm going to say, I'm going to do what they do on Jeopardy, and they're not going to say yes. They're not going to say no. They're going to say, be more specific. Princess Diaries, too. What is the full title of that film? Oh, God.

Princess Diaries to the Royal Gift. Oh, you're so close. You're so close. The Royal Match. The Royal Ring? What do you say, Joe? The Royal Engagement. There you go.

Thank you, Joe, for baby fish mout. It's Royal. It's Princess Iris II, the Royal Engaging. That is two of the four. Okay. I will say this. This is my, you didn't ask for him, but I'll say this. Of the remaining two, one is like a, yeah, all right.

And one is like a, he was in that. So that's wrong with this. Yes. So, I wonder if the other one is a Gary Marshall. Is it like Mother's Day? that is incorrect okay I can give you a hint I think I'm at my years now

because I guess the first princess diaries one of these is a Gary Marshall I'll just say that yeah it's it is and just what was the first thing out of your mouth when I said Hector Elizondo what is the first thing out of everybody's mouth when you say Hector Elizondo Pretty woman

Right all right so Yeah follow that follow your muse down that path Follow your muse down that path Run with your muse. A runaway bride. There you go. I was just listening to Blank Check, and they once again referenced the Hector Elizondo FedEx joke from Runaway Bride, which is admittedly a pretty great joke.

Where is she going? I don't know, but she'll get there by 10.30 in the morning. So what's the year on the one I'm missing? The year on the one you're missing, 1994. Honestly, this is a movie that barely, it was, I'm sure it was a big box office hit, and I'm sure I've seen it, but I cannot muster a single frame of this film. No, same. Let me see. Which on where are we talking?

Action comedy. Action comedy. Male action comedy, because it's the 90s. Yeah, it's a big, it's a big summer blockbuster that you probably have seen and don't, ever think about. 94. Yeah. Yeah.

So this is like pre-will Smith or like, like, ground, not. I'm going to tell you, this movie kind of flopped. This movie only made, uh, domestically, uh, 42 million. Wow. But it's like has the veneer of summer blockbuster. Yeah. You know, it's, it's, There's a lot of ways to go on how to hint you on this one.

It definitely, you know, when you mentioned Will Smith, you know, one could think of like, from whom did Will Smith take the baton? Schwarzenegger. This is also an actor at sort of the tail end of his golden peak. Oh, Eddie Murphy. For like action comedy. Yes. 94 is 94 boomerang boomerang is 92 and that's not enough is it like beverly hills cop 3 it is exactly Beverly Hills Cop 3 there you go yeah yeah yeah kind of a flop Beverly Hills Cop 3 and probably not even kind of yeah can you remember a single thing about Beverly Hills Cop 3 absolutely no I don't think I've seen it absolutely yeah yeah it doesn't exist and yet it's one of the four for Hector L I All right, so, Chris, you're going to quiz me.

Oh, my God. For you, I selected the best actor winner of the year in question, Mr. Marlon Brando. Oh, okay. Jesus, that's huge. Well, I want to play a long, too, in my mind. All right. I've got to imagine that the Godfather is there. Correct.

I'm going to guess that Apocalypse Now is there. Also correct. Okay. Wow. On the waterfront? Oh, correct. Are you going to get a perfect score, Joe Reed? He's a monster.

He's a monster. You can't stop Joe Reed. Okay. All right. It'd be very funny if it was one of his like schlucky 90s movies. Don Juan DiMarco. Right, right, exactly. I don't know what island is back to Moreau you're talking about. Um, but I think I'm going to guess a streetcar name desire.

Wow. incorrect oh shit though dang okay so close i think i know what it is but i don't know i haven't it could be anything but i have a hunch is it uh last tango in paris correct is it really oh gosh oh wow okay all right oh so close i thought it was going to be Superman. Oh, that would have been a good one. That would have been a good guess on my part. I thought it would have been Superman and then I thought it would have been the wild one.

I would have picked the wild one over on the waterfront. Not that I think it's a better film, just because I think it. Can't believe it wasn't a dry white season, his final Oscar nomination. One I Jacks is really popular now. Sure. All right. Is dry white season good? I've never actually seen that.

Is it good? I've never seen a dry season. It's exactly what you think it is. Is it? It's pretty dry. It's dry. Pretty dry, decently white. Yeah.

Okay. All right. So I'm quizzing Jordan. Oh, God. Give me an easy one. I'm terrible. Jordan, I just went for the most simple rep possible, which is Barbara and her love life. So I'm giving you Elliot Gould.

Oh, I thought you were going to give me James Rowland. No. I'm glad I didn't give you this, but I had that tab pulled up. Did you? Elliot Gould top four. Okay. Probably the biggest one is Matt. MASH is correct.

Okay. Now, film Twitter would have you believe long goodbye, but I don't know that that has the cultural imprint on the rest of the world. Take that film Twitter. Yeah. So I'm going to put that in my hip pocket for a second. I'm going to now jump ahead to Oceans 11. Ocean's 11, correct.

Okay. Now we got to go. I love Mr. Elliot Gould. Oh, Bob and Ted and Carol and Alice? Not Bob and Carol and Ted and Alice. A personal injury against me personally. I am wounded. I am angry.

I'm frustrated. You know, he's made so many great movies. Have you guys ever seen Harry and Walter go to New York? No. No. Who is? Who is the Patreon? Who's the other half of Harry and Walter?

Harry is James Kahn, Walter is Elliot Gould. Yeah. Also in the cast, Michael Kane as the villain, Adam Worth. Okay. And then the female lead is Diane Keaton. Dang. And then also in the movie is Carol Kane. Yeah, you're making your sale.

Yeah. She's the villain love interest, if this is fitting as perfectly is. She plays the ardent young communist Carol. Of course. That makes perfect sense. Perfect sense. Harry and Walter go to New York is one of my favorite movies that no one's ever seen. The best thing about the 1970s.

I am going to see this movie, Jordan. The best thing about 1970s Hollywood is that every movie was required to have one character who was a communist. This is a fucking Mark Rydell movie. Yeah, it's Mark Rydell. Yeah, yeah, there you go. And there's musical numbers. This original musical numbers that are a scream. It's an amazing film.

I got to see it. I hope. I will be watching. Okay. So we did, we did mash. And we did Oceans 11. Correct. We got nixed on Bob and Carol and the gang.

Yes. All right. I'm going to throw in the long goodbye. Yes, correct. Film Twitter wins this round. So the long goodbye. Now, oh, I've got to get the fourth one. Yes.

And it's probably not California split, although that's a masterpiece. Okay. Maybe something from the 80. It's not over the Brooklyn Bridge. It's going to be... Yeah, like didn't he, it's not a, I don't know, it was like a TV series. It's not K Street. Damn, I don't know. Our California split. I'm throwing California. It's not California split. There's no television. I would have said so. So, okay. So now you get a hint in the form of the year of your missing movie. Your year is 2007. Jesus. When was the last of the Oceans movies? I think Oceans 13 had already happened by 2007.

Oh, boy. What was Elliot Gould doing in 2007 other than the ocean movies? Was it Ocean's 13? It was Ocean's 13. Yes, it was. There you go. I was going to let you speed past it. All right.

Yes. Oceans 13 is the one where he has the heart attack at the beginning and they've got a win one for Ruben, as it were. Right. Everybody shit talks 13. I like 13. I came around a little bit on 13. They're all... I also came around a little bit on 12.

People's distaste for 13. I think 13 is perfectly fun and a good time. 13's all right. The thing is, they all pale to 11. 11 is the gold standard. 11's the best. I love that movie. For sure.

The first one is the best one. And, you know, I like the, even though it wasn't Soderberg, I liked Ocean's 8 with all the ladies. I had fun. Ocean's 8 has its most. moments that's that's for sure i'd like to see an oceans nine i would i would see them come back 100% i watched oceans eight on a plane that's exactly where you want to watch that within the past year which is the exact that's exactly where you want to watch that it's for that movie all right here's a question is oceans eight the biggest block up the biggest money maker that aquafina has been in

well sure no because she's in shang chi and the legend of the ten rings which yeah but that's not a, that's not a real, that's apparently, that doesn't even. That's one of the, of sort of late stage Marvel, that's one I'll stand up for. I like that one. Yeah. I think even, even in the post-pandemic version of the world that movie released into, I think it's still probably outgrossed Ocean's 8 is what I think is. You know who else is in Ocean's 8?

Who? Rihanna? Um, Elliot Gould. Oh, yes. Is he the connective tissue? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

issue. There you go. All right. Well, I just want to say, I want to get it on record. Why is Aquafina not a bigger movie star? I love her to pieces. I think she's terrific. I often like her. I'll say that. I think sometimes it's not like it. We don't make comedies anymore. Well, that is the big thing. Yes. That is true. That's why she definitely does more television. But yeah, we should make more. We should make more comedies. Throw Aquafina in there. I have seen a movie. I've seen a pro. Well, you know what, never. Oh, we'll talk about to break an embargo right here exclusively for the the San Francisco Buzz audience. Wait, Jordan, you were going to praise Cinematrix on, on, on, yes, yes. And now it's been two hours. Also, by the way, when we're done, there was a trailer that went up recently that Chris went bananas about, and then everybody went bananas about it. And then I DM'd you because I happened to be looking at Twitter.

Oh, I forget what it would have been. Well, we can't say it. We can't say it. I'm NDA, but I had. Well, we're going to, we'll jump into the cinematics. Okay. Yeah. And I'll say, just to let the people at home go crazy.

I wrote to Chris, I'm like, everything you want this movie to be, it's that and more. Ooh. So there's something coming out. Oh, and I remember I was like, that's all I needed to care. Yeah. Yeah. All right. You know, as the listeners know, in Joe's other life, he is the quiz master general.

And he, the Cinematrix is taken the world by storm. In all sincerity, everybody loves it. It's a great thing. And I am the king of the eight out of nines. My nine out of nines are rare. I mean, I've played it every day. There's no shame in an eight out of nine. Eight out of nine is an accomplishment.

Yeah, I mean, you, you, I don't know how many, it's been at least a month now since it went up, right? Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was late February, actually, that it was. Oh, God. So it's been a while now. So I play it every day and I've gotten nine out of nine under 10 times, probably five times. I just can't, I can't get across the finish line, but my eight out of nines are almost every day. You have to promise to let me know when you get a nine out of nine. I want to be part of the people. I did get one recently, but it was ugly. It was like, it was, it was an eight out of nine, but like I got all the high percentage ones. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I was thrown in superhero movies and get just like anything to win. Anything. to win, like, you know, Jason. But at what cost, what cost, yeah.

Yeah, no, it's like, it's funny because some of our friends, like, like, Adam and Rob Shear, I'm sure, listens to this show. Rob Shear is the most perfect. I was literally texting Rob Shear about Cinemager. There is nobody I know who is more perfectly tailored to this game than Rob, who sees every single movie and remembers

exactly when they happened. Yeah. So, so these guys, they don't just win. They, if they get a 3%, they feel they've lost. You know, they have to win. That's Chris file. That's Chris file right here.

Yes, exactly. The nine out of a nine is not a win. A win is getting all single digit percentages. We got to, you know, maybe there should be, Joe, not to give you more work, but you've got to do like an elite round where the people who win with the low percentages have to somehow compete against one another. I'm going to file that one away. I also want to do a version of where it becomes like the Sunday crossword where like the. The Sunday version is the really, is the elite one, is the really for the real heads? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But I do like how there's like a shadow game going on where it's not only do you have to win, you have to win with low percentage. It's like New York Times connections where it's not enough to win all four. You have to know why the fourth bar has a connection. You have to get purple first. That's my thing with connections is if I get purple first, I feel like I've really accomplished something. Fair, fair. You can't get purple out of process of elimination. Right, exactly.

exactly anyway so today is what killed me today you had judy dench movies yes and i could not remember the name of the best exotic marigold i but so but what i could remember was i'm like it's called like the motel mumbai and i'm like so i'm trying there is a movie called hotel mom there is hotel mumbai which which is a very upsetting film it is very upsetting so i'm putting in keywords to try and get this thing to come up and it's not that's the thing that i do with box office game too is sometimes i'll just be like yeah i'll know the general milieu and i'll just throw in a keyword yeah yeah you know it's hotel or motel so whatever reason i but it wasn't showing up yeah so i put it aside for an hour i'm doing the rest of my work and then finally and i knew it would i'm like judy denth

judy dench best exotic marigold hotel so i'm like i got it i got it i got a nine out of nine because I have my other eight are there. But the years, it was 2015 to today. Oh, it's straddled it. Yes. It's the second best Maricole. It is the winner.

The category was Judy Dench movies from 2015 to today, and I could not, I know she's been, she was nominated for Belfast. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Belfast. I even like Belfast. I went on, you know, people hate that movie.

I liked it. And I just couldn't remember a recent Judy Dench movie other than Marigold Hotel, but it wasn't recent enough. It had to be the second best. So it broke my heart. I got an eight out of nine today because I went all in on the best exotic Marigote Hotel when it should have been the second best. I'm proud that you waited for it to come to you rather than a cheat. I know that. And I didn't put in, I didn't put in ladies in lavender.

which is Former this had Oscar buzz episode Ladies and Langer I know because I knew that was too early That was too early But I have I have seen Ladies and Lavender At the theater and I paid

I'm a critic that gets to see things For free But I actually paid money To see ladies and Lavender Why? How was the Paris Theater that day? How was the Lincoln Plaza? Wait, where was it?

It was the Paris Theater Of course it was Because my mother was in town And we went and saw Ladies and Lavender That's perfect Jordan What you do Can not thank you enough for showing up. I knew that you would be the perfect person to talk about

this movie with, to talk about Barbara with. I'm thrilled that we finally had you on. Yeah, this was a blast. I'd be, I'd be honored, honored to be to come back. We will definitely have it. At any time. Listen, the guilt trip is sitting right there. Once this mini series is over and we collapse for two months and don't have any guests because we're exhausted and then we start having guests again, yes, you will be on our list for sure. I mean, you guys do a great service. You've established your voice.

It's a niche that only you guys can fill whatever that says about you. I don't know. It says homosexual. It says, as Barbara would put it, fang. Yeah. The way she, you know. Yeah, we got a sound drop that at some point. Raises that word.

I don't want to say it. But the way she says it, let's say she was saying paper bag. Bag? Yeah. The way she says it, it's just, oh, you're right. You're a paper bag, all right. The way she says it is just, is just, uh, oh, my God. What's shocking.

It comes early in the film and what a, what a time. It's a one-two punch of Castro's boobs and Barbara San Esler. Castro's boobs would be a great trivia team name, a great movie of trivia team name, and only the real, the real ones would. Very few people would know what the hell you're talking about. All right. That is our episode. Before we go, what's your favorite barber movie? My one is funny girl.

Yeah. It's a good movie. Chris? Yentel. Chris is Yental. Yeah. I think it's Yentil. But with Funny Girl hot on its heels and What's Up Doc is a master.

Yeah, What's Up Doc would be my number two. Yeah. Yeah. So good. All right, guys. All right. That's our episode. If you want more this at Oscar Buzz, you can check out the Tumblr at this had oscarbuzz.

You should also follow our Twitter account at had underscore Oscar Buzz. And our Patreon at patreon.com slash this had Oscar Buzz. Oh, and our Instagram at Instagram. Uh, this had Oscar buzz, right? Instagram.com. Instagram, this had Oscar buzz. Just, just find it. Just, you'll find it.

And I apologize for coughing so much on this. Listen, I blew my nose at least seven times and only two of them, I think, made it on to the audio. So that's a victory for me. Jordan, where can our listeners see and hear more from you? Hell, they could see me in hell. No, I, I don't know, I write a lot about movies on the internet. You could follow me on Twitter, Jay Hoffman. and um new york city taxi and limousine commission pay this man to be on on the monitors i'm telling

you yeah um it's only right it's a hell of a time i've been doing this wacky joe you know we when did you and i first meet i was trying to think of that i imagine it was probably at one of like katie rich's backyard get-togethers maybe did you go to any of those ones for sure yeah absolutely her old department in brooklyn yeah um We, correct me if I'm wrong, we used to work at the same website. Oh, we did. At 15 minutes. I just, I literally was, because I'm at Vulture now.

So I was talking to Alex Susskind at Vulture. And I was like, I met you probably around the time, the 15 minutes that I was working at film.com when they were acquired by MTV. Working for editor was David Ehrlich. Do you remember that David was the editor? Well, before, when we get off, I'll tell you a funny story about that. Okay. I was there before Ehrlich. Yeah, yes.

Working for Kevin Palawi. Oh, Kevin. Kevin is how I got that job because Kevin is a fellow Buffalo guy and he reached out to me. And, uh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Fantastic. Yeah. We were there at the at film.com, a website that does not exist anymore. I know.

For a brief period of time, we were, we shared, we shared a banner. But now we're back on the, now we're back. Exactly. Chris, where can the listeners find more of you? Twitter and Letterboxed. Chris Fee-File. That's F-E-I-O. I am on Twitter and Letterboxed at Joe Reed. Read-spelled R-E-I-D. We would like to thank Kyle Cummings for his fantastic artwork, Dave Gonzalez, and Gavin Muvius for their technical guidance. Please remember to rate, like, and review us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, wherever else you get podcasts. A five-star review in particular really helps us out with Apple Podcasts visibility. So take a break from your daydream about blowing up the Statue of Liberty and write something nice about us.

That's all for this week, but we hope you'll be back next week for more buzzes.